Author Topic: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3  (Read 58556 times)

Arcorann

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Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« on: May 19, 2012, 02:31:03 AM »
Previous thread.

See thread title. I remade this because of some things I found out about game mechanics, but of course you can post anything about the series.

* The part of Mountain of Faith's MarisaB shot at 3.xx power that is overpowered is not the laser, it is actually the right-hand regular missile.
* Perfect Cherry Blossom's rank system is actually quite similar to EoSD's with regards to how the rank changes (the effects on the other hand have obviously been reduced greatly).
* Imperishable Night has a rank system, This is practically unknown, which makes sense seeing as the rank varies through a much smaller range and its visible effects would be comparable to PCB's (i.e. next to none). It does exist, however, and therefore can be jacked up to ridiculous values.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 04:13:23 AM »
ZUN needs to bring the rank system back.

iK

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2012, 01:42:45 AM »
Koishi.


I should probably stop but the joke is just too funny to me.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 01:48:48 AM by iK »
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Random

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2012, 06:00:39 AM »
* Imperishable Night has a rank system, This is practically unknown, which makes sense seeing as the rank varies through a much smaller range and its visible effects would be comparable to PCB's (i.e. next to none). It does exist, however, and therefore can be jacked up to ridiculous values.
His horrible time orb collecting skills is making me cringe :V

Is there a reason as to why spells seem to be unchanged with the increase in rank?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 06:10:08 AM by Random »

game2011

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2012, 04:20:08 AM »
There's nothing in the series (I think...) referencing the most well known enemy in the series considered to be the grandfather of horizontal SMHUPs, Gradius.  That enemy is the Moai.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 04:21:40 AM by game2011 »

Zil

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2012, 01:43:39 AM »
Mystia was not in StB, nor were the Prismrivers.
There's nothing in the series (I think...) referencing the most well known enemy in the series considered to be the grandfather of horizontal SMHUPs, Gradius.  That enemy is the Moai.
Is this really very surprising? It's not like every shooting game does that, nor is Touhou horizontal.

e: I just used "nor" twice. wtf
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 01:47:27 AM by Zil »

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2012, 07:15:44 AM »
Maybe this is old news, but I notice that some metal fatigue has darker shades than others in MoF Stage 5 .
Mystia was not in StB, nor were the Prismrivers.
I always think that Prismrivers are missing because all 3 appearing in a scene will makes it really easy, while 1 appearing in a scene seems odd  :)
I didn't know that Mystia's not in StB, maybe since characters appearing in StB all have a/some scene(s) using their "gimmick", but Mystia's one (darkness) is extremely stupid in a photograph game  ;)
And Daiyousei, Lily White, Koakuma don't too, but the first two appears in FailyFairy War, so Koakuma is the only character before DS appearing only once if counting Prismrivers and Mystia's appearance in PoFV.
Correct me if I'm wrong  :3

Chuckolator

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2012, 07:49:02 AM »
but Mystia's one (darkness) is extremely stupid in a photograph game  ;)
That's what I always assumed. Maybe if he used an Undefined Darkness-like mechanic, it could work better. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to just nullify the shot's power against anything in certain coordinates at a certain time, no?

Prismrivers always seemed a little weird though, because every one of them has two different individual patterns in their solo spells and nonspells. Hell, all three of them could work if they did a 9-1 "far shots only" type attack or just turning the difficulty of the attack into survival rather than actually taking the pictures.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 07:57:06 AM by Seiga Kaku »
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game2011

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 12:22:32 PM »
Is this really very surprising? It's not like every shooting game does that, nor is Touhou horizontal.

e: I just used "nor" twice. wtf
Moais also appeared in the vertical stages of the Salamander series, so they're not restricted to horizontal stages.

SuccinctAndPunchy

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2012, 10:28:34 PM »
Moais also appeared in the vertical stages of the Salamander series, so they're not restricted to horizontal stages.

It's worth noting that both games are made by Konami.

Thing's kind of a recurring enemy in Konami shmups but I fail to see the relevance to Touhou at all.

Vael

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 03:57:10 PM »
With her Powers over Eternity, Kaguya could actually be a big help to Yukari's efforts in keeping Gensokyo, Gensokyo. And speaking of Yukari, the reason why she's always so sleepy is that maybe, just maybe, Gensokyo is her Dream and with her powers, she could actually take part in the Dream, or bring her Dream into reality for youkai to live in...which could mean that the reason why Reimu generally doesn't mess around with Incidents is because they could actually wake her up.

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 12:47:28 PM »
I'm reminded by the talk in the misc. questions thread to post these:

Tidbits I got from a discussion in another place:

1. Strictly speaking, calling the immortals created by Hourai elixir "people of hourai" is fanon, originated from the title of IN's extra stage, extra stage music theme and Mokou's title. This name is never used in the story itself.
2. It was never stated in IN that Kaguya drunk the elixir, only that she felt the interest to make it. When Kaguya faced execution, she couldn't be killed not because of the elixir, but because her power over eternity (see: Kaguya's .TXT profile). Kaguya being immortal is not mentioned until Ephemeral Moon.
(The wiki translation of Mokou's .TXT profile says so, but it is highly inaccurate.)

Those are the facts; that person then went on to argue that:

1. Calling the immortals "people of hourai" misses the point of these titles. Mokou's title, other than signifying that she has drunk the elixir, also has the double meaning that she is a resident of the paradise.
2. ZUN originally intended Mokou to be the only person in existence made immortal by the elixir, this being her unique power, just like Kaguya's unique power being "eternity and instance". Having so many immortals cheapens the uniqueness of this power.

I think his second point is interesting, but even if true, ZUN must have changed his mind when writing IN's ghost team ending: if Kaguya didn't drunk the elixir, Eirin would have absolutely no reason to drink it. [EDIT: He's correct in that Kaguya wasn't intended to have drunk the elixir. See my following post.]

I do agree with the first point. Mokou's .TXT profile says (my translation):
Quote
[ZUN suddenly switches to Mokou's first person PoV]

I still hate Kaguya. And Kaguya is still trying to destroy me. However, I won't die. Each day is so fulfilling. This place, deep in the mountain, away from the human village, is no different from Hourai/Penglai.

To live, is wonderful.

================

See also other character titles: "Wonderful Shrine Maiden of Paradise" (Reimu), "Supreme Judge of Paradise" (Eiki) and "Ghost of Kashu" (Yuyuko).

華胥 Kashu/Huaxu here in Yuyuko's title is used as another name for utopia, nothing to do with "afternoon nap". Translating it as "Dreaming Bourei" is wrong.

================

Some other fanon/canon/translation tidbits: the wiki says
Quote from: Touhou Wiki
Patchouli's library is often called "Voile" based on its stage theme, although this is never made explicit.

The appendix for Eastern and Little Nature Deity is infamous for its many errors, one of which is calling the library "Voile Library". The publisher issued an errata correcting it to "the library inside SDM".

So yes, the library is canonically nameless, period. As ZUN said in his music comments, he's just using a proper name-sounding word for the music title.

================

Of course, that errata also corrects "Frandoll" to "Frandre".

The good news is, if you see anyone saying "Frandoll" is canon, you can straight out say it's based on erroneous info.

The bad news is, this contradicts PMiSS, which says "Frandle". Which to trust?

PMiSS is definitely more trustable by far. Among other things, it also has the names of each character written by TOKIAME alongside the illustrations. TOKIAME, as we know, is close to ZUN, so he must have doublechecked every name with ZUN.

Then is "Frandle" the real canon spelling? I can't shake off the feeling that if we ask ZUN now, he would have forgotten it, and may give us yet another spelling, because this seems like a name he came up as pure katakana that feels European, without thinking through what it is in European language.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 07:36:40 AM by cuc »
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game2011

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 01:38:49 PM »
It's worth noting that both games are made by Konami.
I'm aware of that.

I just thought it would be fun for the series to take references from other SHMUP series and not just shot types.

Tengukami

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 02:41:00 PM »
[ZUN suddenly switches to Mokou's first person PoV]

I still hate Kaguya. And Kaguya is still trying to destroy me. However, I won't die. Each day is so fulfilling. This place, deep in the mountain, away from the human village, is no different from Hourai/Penglai.

To live, is wonderful.

Mokou has some serious letting-go issues, but Kaguya also needs to stop messing with her. The two of them have this weirdly dysfunctional, co-dependent relationship going on. I mean, Mokou took some extreme measures in response to her dad getting rejected by Kaguya, but she'd probably be over it by now if Kaguya would stop poking at her when she gets bored. But they're both immortal, and immortal people probably get bored pretty often, so they have each other to entertain each other. Which is fine, I guess, but they could both stand to go into counseling together and work this out once and for all. 

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

cuc

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 04:40:53 PM »
Wait, I have come up with an interpretation that fits IN better than the current canon. I'm finally getting where that person came from. And I too, prefer this version of the story.

IN was already ZUN's drunkiest story. By retconning it, ZUN certainly succeeded in making his drunkiest story even drunkier  :]

WARNING: the following is about things that has been overridden by current canon!

1. The Hourai elixir is made using Kaguya's power. So Kaguya's power over eternity existed before the elixir.
2. When her profile says Kaguya can't be killed because of her power over eternity, it can't possibly mean "Kaguya can't be killed because of the elixir", since this power isn't granted by the elixir.
3. The profile says Kaguya made the elixir out of curiosity, yet doesn't say she drunk it. I know ZUN likes to leave out stuff like whether Byakuren saved the sailors on her ship, but why not say something so simple and obvious?
4, By any common logic of mythical thinking, the power of the elixir is at most as great as Kaguya herself, never exceeding her own.

(The wiki translator of Kaguya's profile mistranslated 興味本位 "out of curiosity" as "out of self-interest", possibly because they were relying on an on-line dictionary. They also inserted "and [she] consumed it" after "make the Hourai elixir", which is not in the original file. )

So within IN itself, the order of the event is like this:

1. Kaguya is naturally immortal.
She naturally has power over eternity, making her perfectly immortal, which is special even among Lunarians.

2. Kaguya asked Eirin to make an elixir using a fraction of her power.
In IN, it is the making of this forbidden elixir that is Kaguya's crime, and nothing else.

3. Kaguya didn't drunk the elixir.
Of course Kaguya has no need for the elixir herself.

4. Kaguya was exiled to earth "to live among the lowly people" as punishment, because she couldn't be killed. The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter begun.

5. "A few years later, Kaguya's crime was considered atoned, and it was time for her to return to the moon."
CiLR no longer mentions the "crime was atoned" part, because after the retconning, the Lunarians can't possibly ever consider her crime cleared.

6. Eirin escaped with Kaguya. Eirin drunk the elixir, possibly to ensure she can protect Kaguya no matter what happens.
By the way, it is never mentioned in IN whether Lunarians consider those who drunk the elixir tainted.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 05:45:10 PM by cuc »
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iK

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 05:25:47 PM »
I'm aware of that.

I just thought it would be fun for the series to take references from other SHMUP series and not just shot types.

Touhou is filled with references to other shooters. Several mechanics and even some whole games are directly inspired by, and a reference to, other stg's.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_influences
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AnonymousPondScum

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2012, 10:41:29 PM »
I just had a dumb thought.

I used to think Iku Nagae's funny Saturday Night Fever-looking pose was a one-off gag and nothing more.

But then I remembered that Gensokyo is where all sorts of disbelieved, obsolete and out-of-style things wind up transmigrating to.

Conclusion: Disco is not merely present but ALIVE in Gensokyo, and Iku is merely it's harbinger. :]

cuc

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2012, 08:23:20 AM »
Mokou has some serious letting-go issues, but Kaguya also needs to stop messing with her. The two of them have this weirdly dysfunctional, co-dependent relationship going on. I mean, Mokou took some extreme measures in response to her dad getting rejected by Kaguya, but she'd probably be over it by now if Kaguya would stop poking at her when she gets bored.
My reading of Mokou's situation is now like this:

1. Her letting-go issue is less severe than people tend to assume. The correct translation of her IN profile shows she had already lost her thousand-year-long grudge, and she received new character development in CiLR: she stopped being hung up on Kaguya, deciding that even without Kaguya, she can still enjoy her life in Gensokyo.
Quote from: Mokou's .TXT profile
Kaguya is but another human forced to change where she lives [i.e. on the run]. Knowing that Kaguya is [in] the same [situation] as her, Mokou felt her drive/rage suddenly went away.
Quote from: Cage in Lunatic Runagate, Chapter 4
I stopped worrying about whether Kaguya would return to the moon. Even if she wanted to go back, she had no obligation to tell me, and it seemed like she didn't want to go back anymore, anyway.

Besides, I remembered that I had other undying friends here in Gensokyo.
2. Mokou is no longer suffering. In fact she is very close to obtaining the spiritual freedom/enlightenment that people like Reimu and Yuyuko have already gained (as indicated by their titles and in other places).

However, Mokou still has debts to pay. That's why she had a new goal in Cage in Lunatic Runagate: to climb up the Youkai Mountain, meet Iwanagahime, and apologize for what she had done, thus ending her quest at last.

This quest has a strong undertone of suicide (after all, surely Iwanagahime, the goddess of immortality, can take away the elixir from her?), but can also be read as metaphorical death and rebirth (fittingly for Mokou). Anyway, given the pace at which plot threads are resolved in Touhou, who knows when that will happen.

Phew, I guess I've already written enough on IN/Ephemeral Moon that it's already worth its own thread. Should I compile them into a new thread?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 09:43:58 AM by cuc »
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cuc

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2012, 07:47:02 AM »
Some food for thought:

The Meiji Restoration brought a series of cultural changes to Japan. Is Gensokyo a place totally unaffected by these changes, or is it absorbing them even after the Border is established?

When people talk about Gensokyo as a general high concept, they'll often focus on that it's a preserve of premodern Japanese culture. But the actual text tells us that Gensokyo receives and loves to receive much info about the outside world, and is always ready to adopt new things.

1. Calendar.
Not the most important, but the only change discussed in the canon (CoLA), the humans of Gensokyo switched from Japan's lunisolar calendar to solar calendar, because it's "more convenient".

2. Religion.
Up until the Meiji restoration, the religion of Japan had been a syncretism of Shinto and Buddhism.

An important part of Meiji restoration often forgotten in the West, was the haibutsu kishaku movement: the suppression of Buddhism, and the forced separation of Buddhism and Shinto.

Is the absense of Buddhist temple in Gensokyo the result of the movement? Not necessarily. It can be argued that because Gensokyo was an out of place small village with deep secrets, there had never been one in Gensokyo. The fact the human village is a village of youkai hunters, and Reimu's power comes from Taoism (TD ending) both hint that the religion of Gensokyo has always been an exception to the outside world in some ways.

Prior to UFO, the most important mention of Buddhist monks in canon is the record of the 13th Hakurei shrine maiden, where the Border is said to be established by outsider monks who deem Gensokyo useless to the post-Meiji human world. As we now know, this is most likely flat out wrong.

3. Diet.
"I'll froze you together with English beef!"

Ever since Emperor Saga's decree in the 9th century, the Japanese had practiced a kind of vegetarianism that forbids eating four-legged animals, and only allows eating of fish and birds. This diet changed during the Meiji era due to the influence of Western culture, and now the majority of Japanese eats meat, including Buddhist monks. (This is a highly simplified summary; the actual situation of the taboo in medieval Japan is much more complex.)

The only canon info I can recall about humans in Gensokyo eating meat that isn't fish or birds is that they eat rabbits (BAiJR, PMiSS). However, apparently the pre-Meiji Japanese also ate rabbits.

From where I look, Gensokyo must have accepted the idea that any meat is edible; on the other hand, the limited resources of Gensokyo determined that they can't raise many animals for meat, and they certainly can't hunt any animal too much.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 09:10:16 AM by cuc »
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cuc

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2012, 08:33:53 PM »
Depending on whether you've noticed it or not, this might be crazy.

I just had a discussion at another place about the Bunbunmaru article from PMiSS.

The Bunbunmaru Newspaper article is a front page news about Akyu's birth. The paper is from 1994, the year Akyu was born. There's a large photo of Akyu (art by Asai Genji), who looked... at least 8 years old?

Through the discussion, the possible explanations were eliminated one by one:

1. This is a mistake:  Asai Genji is a childhood friend of ZUN's. They couldn't possibly have any communication problem.

2. This is an old photo of Aya (8th Child of Are): the context doesn't fit. Shameimaru Aya wouldn't use an old photo for front page.

3. This is a photo of someone else dressed as Child of Are: absolutely no evidence.

4. The children of Are are reincarnated into already grown bodies: introduces an important element that's not well supported. More of a modern fantasy trope, and ZUN doesn't use modern fantasy tropes very often.

5. Akyu grew up at an accelerated rate after birth: this doesn't introduce too much new, and is an ancient mythological motif.

Conclusion: Akyu grew up at an accelerated rate after birth.

People have also pointed out that Akyu still sometimes sounds childish in SoPM, written when she was already 17-18 ("oh, Palace of Earth Spirits has heated floors!"). So it's possible that she will stay a child for a long time, if not until her death. But this can be left for further discussion.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 09:02:08 PM by cuc »
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cuc

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2012, 01:26:37 AM »
Well, now the argument has been put forward that "the birth of Child of Are" is simply a Hieda child receiving the memory and powers of Child of Are.

It's... certainly a very strong argument.
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 06:33:21 AM »
@Akyuu:
I will just assume you mean there is a picture in the PMiSS book itself or something, because it is not posted on the wiki. Of all the explanation given, there are other possibilities.
It could also be that Akyuu is using her current picture. Since according to context, she is keeping this article as a commemoration of her birth.
However, without an actual picture to see, it is hard to decide if that is a possible context.

cuc

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2012, 10:51:08 AM »
The wiki already has an uploaded scan, just not linked to in the article.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_Bunbunmaru.jpg

The only thing that feels icky about a child becoming Child of Are is the vessel would have another soul enter his/her body. However, Touhou is a setting that actively downplays the idea that spirits can't be divided, so fusing too souls may not be as terrible as it sounds.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 03:07:35 PM by cuc »
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2012, 03:06:34 PM »
Nue Houjuu has the ability to cause misidentification. I just noticed that not just some things, but just about all things about her are (copied from/stolen from/taken from/pieces of, you choose the word) other characters. Let me elaborate;

her appearance:
Snake like Sanae
unusual wings like Flandre
Gothic-Lolita like several other characters

many people have said that her theme sounds a lot like Flandre's theme or Mystia's theme (UN Owen was her and Deaf to all but the song, respectively) just look at the comments on the Heian Alien videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMXaJvxGAxo (first youtube video to come out from youtube when searching "Heian Alien")

and then there's the actual fight. There's a lot about this.

this is the fight against her btw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-LHKCXTXFI

the very first danmaku she fires in an Lemniscape pattern.

I was playing Touhou 7 on normal when I saw that Chen's last spellcard has the same pattern

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q0Z9ZovCP0  3:47

then her first spellcard begins. She uses dark clouds and razor lazor beams. For the dark clouds, I was thinking Mystia's 2nd and 3rd spellcards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgNnl35wFn0 2:10

the razor lazors remind me of Koishi's 1st spellcard, which in itself is just like Kanako's first spellcard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnxTVPTE1PQ 0:14

though other bosses do this too, namely, Satori Komeiji

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSPGuVxhrqA 1:00

She then goes back to firing her Lemniscape danmaku.

then her 2nd spellcard begins. it's a spiral pattern that homes in on you, which so many bosses do in part or in whole... (Note how the creator of the video says in the annotations "I know I had seen this kind of pattern, but I just can't tell where")

the next thing she does is fire danmaku in all directions (circularly) and the point at which it is fired moves in a counter-clockwise circular fashion. Again, many bosses do this in part or in whole.

her 3rd spellcard is wavy danmaku fired in all directions. Again, the maker of the video says "Can't really pinpoint this one. I'm sure there's a lot of circular attacks like it"

Yuyuko's 1st spellcard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp0ESbQoCs 1:38

*suddenly gets tired of making youtube URLs*

The next thing she does is the same as what her last non-spellcard attack was, except a second firing point mirrors the first on the other end of the circle they are moving on
video maker says "hey, this is kanako's..."

spellcard 4: more razor lazors.

next attack: more Lemniscape. the maker of the video then says "Where have I seen this pattern before this boss? Reimu? Seihou?"

her 5th spellcard. Razor Lazors (I refer to them as that because they have a razory shape btw) which turn into regular danmaku and back

as the maker of the video says: "Ooh, ooh, I know this one. Shou"

then she makes falling orbs. the maker of the video calls them "mini suns". *coughcoughutsuhoreiujicough*

then she has green lazors and smaller dual yellow lazors spiraling around each one.

"OK... uh... Shou or Byakuren, not sure"

more mini suns~

she then makes more dark clouds for her 7th spellcard

"Ran and Yukari, no contest"

she then pulls out some very overused red orbs. See Yukari, Remilia, Utsuho, Patchouli, etc.

then Hina with the rainbow UFOs.

then comes her survival spell card.

Flandre's kagome kagome and Koishi's 2nd to last (a survival) spellcard

and her final spellcard is more razor lazors becoming normal danmaku.

Zil

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2012, 03:39:37 PM »
I feel like you're going kind of overboard, with some of those. In particular I wonder how Undefined Darkness makes you say "Ran and Yukari, no contest," and "Hina with the rainbow UFOs."

Otherwise some things are recognized as throw-backs: One of the nonspells is taken from Seihou, her theme seems to based on some Pop song or something, Nightmare of Heiankyou made in the semblance of the streets from an arcade game, "Heiankyou Alien" (or something like that).

Some stuff is far-fetched though. Utsuho was hardly the first to use metal fatigue bullets (the moniker even derives from the original spell), red bubbles are everywhere, not just EoSD, lasers becoming bullets is common throughout UFO, etc.

Hey, Grudge Bow reminds me of "Liquifier" from Golden Sun. Yumemi's boss attack as well, but whatever.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 03:43:09 PM by Zil »

Jq1790

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2012, 04:30:40 PM »
Undefined Darkness...That's the one where she chases you down and fires the burst of stuff at you, right?  Probably "Ran and Yukari, no contest." because Princess Tenko and Yukari's Spriting Away, respectively.
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Zil

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2012, 05:20:57 PM »
Unless you equate trying to teleport on top of you to chasing you around, I don't see much resemblance. I'd sooner say "Meiling, no contest" thanks to StB 5-5. There are lots of others that make better comparisons: Possessed by Phoenix, Ferriage in the Deep Fog, Deep Fog Labyrinth, Suwako's red frog thing, God knows what else. Seems like trying to draw a connection just because you want there to be one.

Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2012, 04:08:59 AM »
Quote
The wiki already has an uploaded scan, just not linked to in the article.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_Bunbunmaru.jpg

The only thing that feels icky about a child becoming Child of Are is the vessel would have another soul enter his/her body. However, Touhou is a setting that actively downplays the idea that spirits can't be divided, so fusing too souls may not be as terrible as it sounds.

Now I have the full context, I can give my opinion. Why would you assume that it is Akyuu? That looks to me like Akyuu's mom.
PMiSS: ...The Hieda family, one of the traditional families of the human village, has announced the birth of the new Child of Miare....

Sounds to me like it should be a photo of one of the Hieda family members.

cuc

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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2012, 06:20:32 AM »
Now I have the full context, I can give my opinion. Why would you assume that it is Akyuu? That looks to me like Akyuu's mom.
PMiSS: ...The Hieda family, one of the traditional families of the human village, has announced the birth of the new Child of Miare....

Sounds to me like it should be a photo of one of the Hieda family members.
Asai Genji 's style makes it impossible to tell children from adults in his art, so I'll give you that. However...

The "camera angle" in the picture makes it very clear that the girl is extremely short compared to the adults around her. Her hand is clearly much smaller than the adult's hand holding it, So the girl is small in stature, and most likely no more than 10 years old. The mise en masse conveys the idea that the girl is the centre of the scene. With those elements combined, the only way (other than "this is Akyu") I could make sense of this picture is that the Hieda family has a kid dress as Child of Are to announced Akyu's birth. That's actually, exactly what I once proposed.

However why would Aya, however bad a journalist she is, use a photo of someone else under the large headline "The 9th Girl of Are Appears"? She should by all means take a picture of the infant in the arms of her family, right? So I had to come up with convoluted explanation such as "the Hieda family didn't allow it" and so on.

Instead of that contrivance, it's better to read it as ZUN saying nothing about the matter of how Akyu grew up, only to drop an ambiguous hint (but shocking, if you think about it) near the end of the book.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 06:25:36 AM by cuc »
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Re: Possibly-crazy stuff you didn't notice for ages: thread 3
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2012, 11:54:13 AM »
I was reading up on Symposium of Post-mysticism, and found the 'Danger/Freindship' levels chart, and some of it was... interesting to say the least.

I just can't figure out some of the reasons for the placements, particually of danger threat posed by the characters, but also some of the freindliness to humans.

Very Freindly to Humans:
Kyouko:  Low Danger. Nothing needed to be discussed here really.
Miko: Apparently very freindly to humans, which is a little of a surprise seeing her plot before she went into sleep. What I find interesting is that despite being practically omniscient through application of her power, and can know everything about someone in an instant... she's no danger at all!

Minoriko: Apparently a medium danger level. Makes sense; seeing as she's a harvest goddess to annoying her means a bad harvest.

Mamizou: Apparently very freindly to humans, the most freindly of the Temple lot besides Kyouko. I fail to see how she's such a huge danger though, seeing as her transformations leave her tail. Maybe she's stronger physically than most think?

Seiga: Evil Hermit. Very Freindly to humans. Go figure. Also, I don't understand when she's in control of Yoshika, she's this low. Get to that later.

Freindly to humans:

Kogasa: Low danger, understandable. Freindly to humans, also understandable.
Sanae: A human is less freindly to humans than some Youkai, includeing an EVIL hermit. Go figure. Also, with her power to create miricles, I don't understand how she's a low threat by any means.
Kanako: Freindly, makes sense. Low threat? When she's a goddess? Who's won wars? That's absurd. She's seriously less of a threat than Minoriko and Nazrin?
Rin: Freindly to humans despite wanting to kill Reimu to cart her body off. Also low danger level... which makes sense really.
Shizuhara: Low danger level, less chummy with humans than her sister. Makes sense.

Ichirin and Unzan: Apparently they are as dangerous as Seiga, a 'high' threat level. Also, the two being listed together while Yoshika not being listed with Seiga is interesting.

Medium Freindliness to humans:

Suwako: Low threat. Despite the power to create and control earth. Apparently the gods of Moriya are a bunch of pansies. Also, I don't get how Suwako is less freindly to humans than Kanako, who happily manipulates anyone for faith. Also, she can control Hina if she wants to, who is apparently exceptionally dangerous. Surely this should up her danger?

Shou: Same danger level as Suwako. Finding Treasures apparently isn't very dangerous. I concurr. What I don't get is how Nazrin is more dangerous.

Nitori: Medium Freindliness to humans [Probobly this low because she's shy and flees from them, she certainly didn't seem aggressive to Reimu and Marisa], but apparently a High threat. I guess that's due to Kappatech.

Hina: Listed as Very High. I don't get how Hina is a Very High threat, the highest catagory. Sure, she can make misfortune befall people, but is this really above the capabilities of Yamane, who's a walking plauge?

Byakuren: An unknown level of danger. Surprised she's this low on the freindliness to humans scale. She's below Kogasa, Mamizou, and Kanako...

Low Freindliness to humans:

Nazrin: Apparently a medium threat... more dangerous than Shou, and the Moriya Goddesses... go figure?

Nue: Makes sense, a High threat, and she's not exactly freindly.

Soga no Tojiko: A Very High threat level, which isn't much of a shocker, considering she can create and control lightling. If she wanted to she could instantly kill anyone basically with a bolt of lightling.

Murasa: Also a very high threat. Which dosen't make much sense. She can... sink ships? But... there are no boats in Gensokyo last time I checked.

Very low Freindliness:

Yamane: The sole character in this area, and listed as a high threat. Too low, in my opinion, seeing as she's a walking plauge.

Unknown:

Yuugi: Listed as a very high threat. Which makes sense. She's an Oni. That controls supernatural. In Gensokyo. If she wanted to she could probobly smash the Hakurei Barrier with her ability, or control any youkai, as they are supernatural beings.

Utusho: Apparently, her danger level is unknown. She controls nuclear fusion. I think very high is given.

No freindliness to humans: AKA: The ones that will kill you

Parsee: Nothing more to say about the freindliness. She's a medium threat, which makes some sense too.

Satori: Apparently, Satori hates humans! She's also a very high threat, which makes sense, seeing as mind hax. This puts Satori as a character you REALLY wouldn't want to run into I guess.

Yoshika: I don't get this. Yoshika was portrayed as VERY freindly. Apparently she is not freindly to humans at all. In addittion, she's bound to Seiga's will, so she's as freindly as Seiga would be. [Although this might explain why she acted this was in TD]. The danger level is Very High, for obvious reasons to do with eating anything.

Koishi: Apparently she has no freindliness to humans... but then you realise this is Koishi. She's not against them too, she simply can't care. Her danger is apparently unknown.

---

So yeah, there's some things that make sense, and some I don't understand the reasoning behind, like Murasa [ESPECIALLY Murasa], Kanako , Hina, Mamizou, Miko, Ichirin and Nazrin.

Why are these characters so dangerous... or not? Why is Sanae less freindly to humans than an Evil Hermit? Why is an omniscient no danger at all?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 12:00:37 PM by Raikaria »


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