Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Arcorann on May 19, 2012, 02:31:03 AM
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Previous thread. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9884.0.html)
See thread title. I remade this because of some things I found out about game mechanics, but of course you can post anything about the series.
* The part of Mountain of Faith's MarisaB shot at 3.xx power that is overpowered is not the laser, it is actually the right-hand regular missile.
* Perfect Cherry Blossom's rank system is actually quite similar to EoSD's with regards to how the rank changes (the effects on the other hand have obviously been reduced greatly).
* Imperishable Night has a rank system, This is practically unknown, which makes sense seeing as the rank varies through a much smaller range and its visible effects would be comparable to PCB's (i.e. next to none). It does exist, however, and therefore can be jacked up to ridiculous values. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4506006)
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ZUN needs to bring the rank system back.
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Koishi.
I should probably stop but the joke is just too funny to me.
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* Imperishable Night has a rank system, This is practically unknown, which makes sense seeing as the rank varies through a much smaller range and its visible effects would be comparable to PCB's (i.e. next to none). It does exist, however, and therefore can be jacked up to ridiculous values. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4506006)
His horrible time orb collecting skills is making me cringe :V
Is there a reason as to why spells seem to be unchanged with the increase in rank?
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There's nothing in the series (I think...) referencing the most well known enemy in the series considered to be the grandfather of horizontal SMHUPs, Gradius. That enemy is the Moai.
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Mystia was not in StB, nor were the Prismrivers.
There's nothing in the series (I think...) referencing the most well known enemy in the series considered to be the grandfather of horizontal SMHUPs, Gradius. That enemy is the Moai.
Is this really very surprising? It's not like every shooting game does that, nor is Touhou horizontal.
e: I just used "nor" twice. wtf
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Maybe this is old news, but I notice that some metal fatigue has darker shades than others in MoF Stage 5 .
Mystia was not in StB, nor were the Prismrivers.
I always think that Prismrivers are missing because all 3 appearing in a scene will makes it really easy, while 1 appearing in a scene seems odd :)
I didn't know that Mystia's not in StB, maybe since characters appearing in StB all have a/some scene(s) using their "gimmick", but Mystia's one (darkness) is extremely stupid in a photograph game ;)
And Daiyousei, Lily White, Koakuma don't too, but the first two appears in FailyFairy War, so Koakuma is the only character before DS appearing only once if counting Prismrivers and Mystia's appearance in PoFV.
Correct me if I'm wrong :3
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but Mystia's one (darkness) is extremely stupid in a photograph game ;)
That's what I always assumed. Maybe if he used an Undefined Darkness-like mechanic, it could work better. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to just nullify the shot's power against anything in certain coordinates at a certain time, no?
Prismrivers always seemed a little weird though, because every one of them has two different individual patterns in their solo spells and nonspells. Hell, all three of them could work if they did a 9-1 "far shots only" type attack or just turning the difficulty of the attack into survival rather than actually taking the pictures.
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Is this really very surprising? It's not like every shooting game does that, nor is Touhou horizontal.
e: I just used "nor" twice. wtf
Moais also appeared in the vertical stages of the Salamander series, so they're not restricted to horizontal stages.
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Moais also appeared in the vertical stages of the Salamander series, so they're not restricted to horizontal stages.
It's worth noting that both games are made by Konami.
Thing's kind of a recurring enemy in Konami shmups but I fail to see the relevance to Touhou at all.
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With her Powers over Eternity, Kaguya could actually be a big help to Yukari's efforts in keeping Gensokyo, Gensokyo. And speaking of Yukari, the reason why she's always so sleepy is that maybe, just maybe, Gensokyo is her Dream and with her powers, she could actually take part in the Dream, or bring her Dream into reality for youkai to live in...which could mean that the reason why Reimu generally doesn't mess around with Incidents is because they could actually wake her up.
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I'm reminded by the talk (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8344.msg837478.html#msg837478) in the misc. questions thread to post these:
Tidbits I got from a discussion in another place:
1. Strictly speaking, calling the immortals created by Hourai elixir "people of hourai" is fanon, originated from the title of IN's extra stage, extra stage music theme and Mokou's title. This name is never used in the story itself.
2. It was never stated in IN that Kaguya drunk the elixir, only that she felt the interest to make it. When Kaguya faced execution, she couldn't be killed not because of the elixir, but because her power over eternity (see: Kaguya's .TXT profile). Kaguya being immortal is not mentioned until Ephemeral Moon.
(The wiki translation of Mokou's .TXT profile says so, but it is highly inaccurate.)
Those are the facts; that person then went on to argue that:
1. Calling the immortals "people of hourai" misses the point of these titles. Mokou's title, other than signifying that she has drunk the elixir, also has the double meaning that she is a resident of the paradise.
2. ZUN originally intended Mokou to be the only person in existence made immortal by the elixir, this being her unique power, just like Kaguya's unique power being "eternity and instance". Having so many immortals cheapens the uniqueness of this power.
I think his second point is interesting, but even if true, ZUN must have changed his mind when writing IN's ghost team ending: if Kaguya didn't drunk the elixir, Eirin would have absolutely no reason to drink it. [EDIT: He's correct in that Kaguya wasn't intended to have drunk the elixir. See my following post.]
I do agree with the first point. Mokou's .TXT profile says (my translation):
[ZUN suddenly switches to Mokou's first person PoV]
I still hate Kaguya. And Kaguya is still trying to destroy me. However, I won't die. Each day is so fulfilling. This place, deep in the mountain, away from the human village, is no different from Hourai/Penglai.
To live, is wonderful.
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See also other character titles: "Wonderful Shrine Maiden of Paradise" (Reimu), "Supreme Judge of Paradise" (Eiki) and "Ghost of Kashu" (Yuyuko).
華胥 Kashu/Huaxu here in Yuyuko's title is used as another name for utopia, nothing to do with "afternoon nap". Translating it as "Dreaming Bourei" is wrong.
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Some other fanon/canon/translation tidbits: the wiki says (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Devil_Mansion)
Patchouli's library is often called "Voile" based on its stage theme, although this is never made explicit.
The appendix for Eastern and Little Nature Deity is infamous for its many errors, one of which is calling the library "Voile Library". The publisher issued an errata (http://www.comptiq.com/release/comic/55touhou_owabi.html) correcting it to "the library inside SDM".
So yes, the library is canonically nameless, period. As ZUN said in his music comments, he's just using a proper name-sounding word for the music title.
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Of course, that errata also corrects "Frandoll" to "Frandre".
The good news is, if you see anyone saying "Frandoll" is canon, you can straight out say it's based on erroneous info.
The bad news is, this contradicts PMiSS, which says "Frandle". Which to trust?
PMiSS is definitely more trustable by far. Among other things, it also has the names of each character written by TOKIAME alongside the illustrations. TOKIAME, as we know, is close to ZUN, so he must have doublechecked every name with ZUN.
Then is "Frandle" the real canon spelling? I can't shake off the feeling that if we ask ZUN now, he would have forgotten it, and may give us yet another spelling, because this seems like a name he came up as pure katakana that feels European, without thinking through what it is in European language.
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It's worth noting that both games are made by Konami.
I'm aware of that.
I just thought it would be fun for the series to take references from other SHMUP series and not just shot types.
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[ZUN suddenly switches to Mokou's first person PoV]
I still hate Kaguya. And Kaguya is still trying to destroy me. However, I won't die. Each day is so fulfilling. This place, deep in the mountain, away from the human village, is no different from Hourai/Penglai.
To live, is wonderful.
Mokou has some serious letting-go issues, but Kaguya also needs to stop messing with her. The two of them have this weirdly dysfunctional, co-dependent relationship going on. I mean, Mokou took some extreme measures in response to her dad getting rejected by Kaguya, but she'd probably be over it by now if Kaguya would stop poking at her when she gets bored. But they're both immortal, and immortal people probably get bored pretty often, so they have each other to entertain each other. Which is fine, I guess, but they could both stand to go into counseling together and work this out once and for all.
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Wait, I have come up with an interpretation that fits IN better than the current canon. I'm finally getting where that person came from. And I too, prefer this version of the story.
IN was already ZUN's drunkiest story. By retconning it, ZUN certainly succeeded in making his drunkiest story even drunkier :]
WARNING: the following is about things that has been overridden by current canon!
1. The Hourai elixir is made using Kaguya's power. So Kaguya's power over eternity existed before the elixir.
2. When her profile says Kaguya can't be killed because of her power over eternity, it can't possibly mean "Kaguya can't be killed because of the elixir", since this power isn't granted by the elixir.
3. The profile says Kaguya made the elixir out of curiosity, yet doesn't say she drunk it. I know ZUN likes to leave out stuff like whether Byakuren saved the sailors on her ship, but why not say something so simple and obvious?
4, By any common logic of mythical thinking, the power of the elixir is at most as great as Kaguya herself, never exceeding her own.
(The wiki translator of Kaguya's profile mistranslated 興味本位 "out of curiosity" as "out of self-interest", possibly because they were relying on an on-line dictionary. They also inserted "and [she] consumed it" after "make the Hourai elixir", which is not in the original file. )
So within IN itself, the order of the event is like this:
1. Kaguya is naturally immortal.
She naturally has power over eternity, making her perfectly immortal, which is special even among Lunarians.
2. Kaguya asked Eirin to make an elixir using a fraction of her power.
In IN, it is the making of this forbidden elixir that is Kaguya's crime, and nothing else.
3. Kaguya didn't drunk the elixir.
Of course Kaguya has no need for the elixir herself.
4. Kaguya was exiled to earth "to live among the lowly people" as punishment, because she couldn't be killed. The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter begun.
5. "A few years later, Kaguya's crime was considered atoned, and it was time for her to return to the moon."
CiLR no longer mentions the "crime was atoned" part, because after the retconning, the Lunarians can't possibly ever consider her crime cleared.
6. Eirin escaped with Kaguya. Eirin drunk the elixir, possibly to ensure she can protect Kaguya no matter what happens.
By the way, it is never mentioned in IN whether Lunarians consider those who drunk the elixir tainted.
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I'm aware of that.
I just thought it would be fun for the series to take references from other SHMUP series and not just shot types.
Touhou is filled with references to other shooters. Several mechanics and even some whole games are directly inspired by, and a reference to, other stg's.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_influences
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I just had a dumb thought.
I used to think Iku Nagae's funny Saturday Night Fever-looking pose was a one-off gag and nothing more.
But then I remembered that Gensokyo is where all sorts of disbelieved, obsolete and out-of-style things wind up transmigrating to.
Conclusion: Disco is not merely present but ALIVE in Gensokyo, and Iku is merely it's harbinger. :]
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Mokou has some serious letting-go issues, but Kaguya also needs to stop messing with her. The two of them have this weirdly dysfunctional, co-dependent relationship going on. I mean, Mokou took some extreme measures in response to her dad getting rejected by Kaguya, but she'd probably be over it by now if Kaguya would stop poking at her when she gets bored.
My reading of Mokou's situation is now like this:
1. Her letting-go issue is less severe than people tend to assume. The correct translation of her IN profile shows she had already lost her thousand-year-long grudge, and she received new character development in CiLR: she stopped being hung up on Kaguya, deciding that even without Kaguya, she can still enjoy her life in Gensokyo.
Kaguya is but another human forced to change where she lives [i.e. on the run]. Knowing that Kaguya is [in] the same [situation] as her, Mokou felt her drive/rage suddenly went away.
I stopped worrying about whether Kaguya would return to the moon. Even if she wanted to go back, she had no obligation to tell me, and it seemed like she didn't want to go back anymore, anyway.
Besides, I remembered that I had other undying friends here in Gensokyo.
2. Mokou is no longer suffering. In fact she is very close to obtaining the spiritual freedom/enlightenment that people like Reimu and Yuyuko have already gained (as indicated by their titles and in other places).
However, Mokou still has debts to pay. That's why she had a new goal in Cage in Lunatic Runagate: to climb up the Youkai Mountain, meet Iwanagahime, and apologize for what she had done, thus ending her quest at last.
This quest has a strong undertone of suicide (after all, surely Iwanagahime, the goddess of immortality, can take away the elixir from her?), but can also be read as metaphorical death and rebirth (fittingly for Mokou). Anyway, given the pace at which plot threads are resolved in Touhou, who knows when that will happen.
Phew, I guess I've already written enough on IN/Ephemeral Moon that it's already worth its own thread. Should I compile them into a new thread?
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Some food for thought:
The Meiji Restoration brought a series of cultural changes to Japan. Is Gensokyo a place totally unaffected by these changes, or is it absorbing them even after the Border is established?
When people talk about Gensokyo as a general high concept, they'll often focus on that it's a preserve of premodern Japanese culture. But the actual text tells us that Gensokyo receives and loves to receive much info about the outside world, and is always ready to adopt new things.
1. Calendar.
Not the most important, but the only change discussed in the canon (CoLA), the humans of Gensokyo switched from Japan's lunisolar calendar to solar calendar, because it's "more convenient".
2. Religion.
Up until the Meiji restoration, the religion of Japan had been a syncretism of Shinto and Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinbutsu_sh%C5%ABg%C5%8D).
An important part of Meiji restoration often forgotten in the West, was the haibutsu kishaku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haibutsu_kishaku) movement: the suppression of Buddhism, and the forced separation of Buddhism and Shinto.
Is the absense of Buddhist temple in Gensokyo the result of the movement? Not necessarily. It can be argued that because Gensokyo was an out of place small village with deep secrets, there had never been one in Gensokyo. The fact the human village is a village of youkai hunters, and Reimu's power comes from Taoism (TD ending) both hint that the religion of Gensokyo has always been an exception to the outside world in some ways.
Prior to UFO, the most important mention of Buddhist monks in canon is the record (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Cherry_Blossom/Story/Prologue) of the 13th Hakurei shrine maiden, where the Border is said to be established by outsider monks who deem Gensokyo useless to the post-Meiji human world. As we now know, this is most likely flat out wrong.
3. Diet.
"I'll froze you together with English beef!"
Ever since Emperor Saga's decree (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_vegetarianism#Vajrayana) in the 9th century, the Japanese had practiced a kind of vegetarianism that forbids eating four-legged animals, and only allows eating of fish and birds. This diet changed during the Meiji era due to the influence of Western culture, and now the majority of Japanese eats meat, including Buddhist monks. (This is a highly simplified summary; the actual situation of the taboo in medieval Japan is much more complex.)
The only canon info I can recall about humans in Gensokyo eating meat that isn't fish or birds is that they eat rabbits (BAiJR, PMiSS). However, apparently the pre-Meiji Japanese also ate rabbits.
From where I look, Gensokyo must have accepted the idea that any meat is edible; on the other hand, the limited resources of Gensokyo determined that they can't raise many animals for meat, and they certainly can't hunt any animal too much.
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Depending on whether you've noticed it or not, this might be crazy.
I just had a discussion at another place about the Bunbunmaru article from PMiSS.
The Bunbunmaru Newspaper article is a front page news about Akyu's birth. The paper is from 1994, the year Akyu was born. There's a large photo of Akyu (art by Asai Genji), who looked... at least 8 years old?
Through the discussion, the possible explanations were eliminated one by one:
1. This is a mistake: Asai Genji is a childhood friend of ZUN's. They couldn't possibly have any communication problem.
2. This is an old photo of Aya (8th Child of Are): the context doesn't fit. Shameimaru Aya wouldn't use an old photo for front page.
3. This is a photo of someone else dressed as Child of Are: absolutely no evidence.
4. The children of Are are reincarnated into already grown bodies: introduces an important element that's not well supported. More of a modern fantasy trope, and ZUN doesn't use modern fantasy tropes very often.
5. Akyu grew up at an accelerated rate after birth: this doesn't introduce too much new, and is an ancient mythological motif.
Conclusion: Akyu grew up at an accelerated rate after birth.
People have also pointed out that Akyu still sometimes sounds childish in SoPM, written when she was already 17-18 ("oh, Palace of Earth Spirits has heated floors!"). So it's possible that she will stay a child for a long time, if not until her death. But this can be left for further discussion.
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Well, now the argument has been put forward that "the birth of Child of Are" is simply a Hieda child receiving the memory and powers of Child of Are.
It's... certainly a very strong argument.
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@Akyuu:
I will just assume you mean there is a picture in the PMiSS book itself or something, because it is not posted on the wiki. Of all the explanation given, there are other possibilities.
It could also be that Akyuu is using her current picture. Since according to context, she is keeping this article as a commemoration of her birth.
However, without an actual picture to see, it is hard to decide if that is a possible context.
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The wiki already has an uploaded scan, just not linked to in the article.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_Bunbunmaru.jpg
The only thing that feels icky about a child becoming Child of Are is the vessel would have another soul enter his/her body. However, Touhou is a setting that actively downplays the idea that spirits can't be divided, so fusing too souls may not be as terrible as it sounds.
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Nue Houjuu has the ability to cause misidentification. I just noticed that not just some things, but just about all things about her are (copied from/stolen from/taken from/pieces of, you choose the word) other characters. Let me elaborate;
her appearance:
Snake like Sanae
unusual wings like Flandre
Gothic-Lolita like several other characters
many people have said that her theme sounds a lot like Flandre's theme or Mystia's theme (UN Owen was her and Deaf to all but the song, respectively) just look at the comments on the Heian Alien videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMXaJvxGAxo (first youtube video to come out from youtube when searching "Heian Alien")
and then there's the actual fight. There's a lot about this.
this is the fight against her btw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-LHKCXTXFI
the very first danmaku she fires in an Lemniscape pattern.
I was playing Touhou 7 on normal when I saw that Chen's last spellcard has the same pattern
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q0Z9ZovCP0 3:47
then her first spellcard begins. She uses dark clouds and razor lazor beams. For the dark clouds, I was thinking Mystia's 2nd and 3rd spellcards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgNnl35wFn0 2:10
the razor lazors remind me of Koishi's 1st spellcard, which in itself is just like Kanako's first spellcard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnxTVPTE1PQ 0:14
though other bosses do this too, namely, Satori Komeiji
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSPGuVxhrqA 1:00
She then goes back to firing her Lemniscape danmaku.
then her 2nd spellcard begins. it's a spiral pattern that homes in on you, which so many bosses do in part or in whole... (Note how the creator of the video says in the annotations "I know I had seen this kind of pattern, but I just can't tell where")
the next thing she does is fire danmaku in all directions (circularly) and the point at which it is fired moves in a counter-clockwise circular fashion. Again, many bosses do this in part or in whole.
her 3rd spellcard is wavy danmaku fired in all directions. Again, the maker of the video says "Can't really pinpoint this one. I'm sure there's a lot of circular attacks like it"
Yuyuko's 1st spellcard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp0ESbQoCs 1:38
*suddenly gets tired of making youtube URLs*
The next thing she does is the same as what her last non-spellcard attack was, except a second firing point mirrors the first on the other end of the circle they are moving on
video maker says "hey, this is kanako's..."
spellcard 4: more razor lazors.
next attack: more Lemniscape. the maker of the video then says "Where have I seen this pattern before this boss? Reimu? Seihou?"
her 5th spellcard. Razor Lazors (I refer to them as that because they have a razory shape btw) which turn into regular danmaku and back
as the maker of the video says: "Ooh, ooh, I know this one. Shou"
then she makes falling orbs. the maker of the video calls them "mini suns". *coughcoughutsuhoreiujicough*
then she has green lazors and smaller dual yellow lazors spiraling around each one.
"OK... uh... Shou or Byakuren, not sure"
more mini suns~
she then makes more dark clouds for her 7th spellcard
"Ran and Yukari, no contest"
she then pulls out some very overused red orbs. See Yukari, Remilia, Utsuho, Patchouli, etc.
then Hina with the rainbow UFOs.
then comes her survival spell card.
Flandre's kagome kagome and Koishi's 2nd to last (a survival) spellcard
and her final spellcard is more razor lazors becoming normal danmaku.
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I feel like you're going kind of overboard, with some of those. In particular I wonder how Undefined Darkness makes you say "Ran and Yukari, no contest," and "Hina with the rainbow UFOs."
Otherwise some things are recognized as throw-backs: One of the nonspells is taken from Seihou, her theme seems to based on some Pop song or something, Nightmare of Heiankyou made in the semblance of the streets from an arcade game, "Heiankyou Alien" (or something like that).
Some stuff is far-fetched though. Utsuho was hardly the first to use metal fatigue bullets (the moniker even derives from the original spell), red bubbles are everywhere, not just EoSD, lasers becoming bullets is common throughout UFO, etc.
Hey, Grudge Bow reminds me of "Liquifier" from Golden Sun. Yumemi's boss attack as well, but whatever.
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Undefined Darkness...That's the one where she chases you down and fires the burst of stuff at you, right? Probably "Ran and Yukari, no contest." because Princess Tenko and Yukari's Spriting Away, respectively.
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Unless you equate trying to teleport on top of you to chasing you around, I don't see much resemblance. I'd sooner say "Meiling, no contest" thanks to StB 5-5. There are lots of others that make better comparisons: Possessed by Phoenix, Ferriage in the Deep Fog, Deep Fog Labyrinth, Suwako's red frog thing, God knows what else. Seems like trying to draw a connection just because you want there to be one.
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The wiki already has an uploaded scan, just not linked to in the article.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PMiSS_Bunbunmaru.jpg
The only thing that feels icky about a child becoming Child of Are is the vessel would have another soul enter his/her body. However, Touhou is a setting that actively downplays the idea that spirits can't be divided, so fusing too souls may not be as terrible as it sounds.
Now I have the full context, I can give my opinion. Why would you assume that it is Akyuu? That looks to me like Akyuu's mom.
PMiSS: ...The Hieda family, one of the traditional families of the human village, has announced the birth of the new Child of Miare....
Sounds to me like it should be a photo of one of the Hieda family members.
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Now I have the full context, I can give my opinion. Why would you assume that it is Akyuu? That looks to me like Akyuu's mom.
PMiSS: ...The Hieda family, one of the traditional families of the human village, has announced the birth of the new Child of Miare....
Sounds to me like it should be a photo of one of the Hieda family members.
Asai Genji 's style makes it impossible to tell children from adults in his art, so I'll give you that. However...
The "camera angle" in the picture makes it very clear that the girl is extremely short compared to the adults around her. Her hand is clearly much smaller than the adult's hand holding it, So the girl is small in stature, and most likely no more than 10 years old. The mise en masse conveys the idea that the girl is the centre of the scene. With those elements combined, the only way (other than "this is Akyu") I could make sense of this picture is that the Hieda family has a kid dress as Child of Are to announced Akyu's birth. That's actually, exactly what I once proposed.
However why would Aya, however bad a journalist she is, use a photo of someone else under the large headline "The 9th Girl of Are Appears"? She should by all means take a picture of the infant in the arms of her family, right? So I had to come up with convoluted explanation such as "the Hieda family didn't allow it" and so on.
Instead of that contrivance, it's better to read it as ZUN saying nothing about the matter of how Akyu grew up, only to drop an ambiguous hint (but shocking, if you think about it) near the end of the book.
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I was reading up on Symposium of Post-mysticism, and found the 'Danger/Freindship' levels chart, and some of it was... interesting to say the least.
I just can't figure out some of the reasons for the placements, particually of danger threat posed by the characters, but also some of the freindliness to humans.
Very Freindly to Humans:
Kyouko: Low Danger. Nothing needed to be discussed here really.
Miko: Apparently very freindly to humans, which is a little of a surprise seeing her plot before she went into sleep. What I find interesting is that despite being practically omniscient through application of her power, and can know everything about someone in an instant... she's no danger at all!
Minoriko: Apparently a medium danger level. Makes sense; seeing as she's a harvest goddess to annoying her means a bad harvest.
Mamizou: Apparently very freindly to humans, the most freindly of the Temple lot besides Kyouko. I fail to see how she's such a huge danger though, seeing as her transformations leave her tail. Maybe she's stronger physically than most think?
Seiga: Evil Hermit. Very Freindly to humans. Go figure. Also, I don't understand when she's in control of Yoshika, she's this low. Get to that later.
Freindly to humans:
Kogasa: Low danger, understandable. Freindly to humans, also understandable.
Sanae: A human is less freindly to humans than some Youkai, includeing an EVIL hermit. Go figure. Also, with her power to create miricles, I don't understand how she's a low threat by any means.
Kanako: Freindly, makes sense. Low threat? When she's a goddess? Who's won wars? That's absurd. She's seriously less of a threat than Minoriko and Nazrin?
Rin: Freindly to humans despite wanting to kill Reimu to cart her body off. Also low danger level... which makes sense really.
Shizuhara: Low danger level, less chummy with humans than her sister. Makes sense.
Ichirin and Unzan: Apparently they are as dangerous as Seiga, a 'high' threat level. Also, the two being listed together while Yoshika not being listed with Seiga is interesting.
Medium Freindliness to humans:
Suwako: Low threat. Despite the power to create and control earth. Apparently the gods of Moriya are a bunch of pansies. Also, I don't get how Suwako is less freindly to humans than Kanako, who happily manipulates anyone for faith. Also, she can control Hina if she wants to, who is apparently exceptionally dangerous. Surely this should up her danger?
Shou: Same danger level as Suwako. Finding Treasures apparently isn't very dangerous. I concurr. What I don't get is how Nazrin is more dangerous.
Nitori: Medium Freindliness to humans [Probobly this low because she's shy and flees from them, she certainly didn't seem aggressive to Reimu and Marisa], but apparently a High threat. I guess that's due to Kappatech.
Hina: Listed as Very High. I don't get how Hina is a Very High threat, the highest catagory. Sure, she can make misfortune befall people, but is this really above the capabilities of Yamane, who's a walking plauge?
Byakuren: An unknown level of danger. Surprised she's this low on the freindliness to humans scale. She's below Kogasa, Mamizou, and Kanako...
Low Freindliness to humans:
Nazrin: Apparently a medium threat... more dangerous than Shou, and the Moriya Goddesses... go figure?
Nue: Makes sense, a High threat, and she's not exactly freindly.
Soga no Tojiko: A Very High threat level, which isn't much of a shocker, considering she can create and control lightling. If she wanted to she could instantly kill anyone basically with a bolt of lightling.
Murasa: Also a very high threat. Which dosen't make much sense. She can... sink ships? But... there are no boats in Gensokyo last time I checked.
Very low Freindliness:
Yamane: The sole character in this area, and listed as a high threat. Too low, in my opinion, seeing as she's a walking plauge.
Unknown:
Yuugi: Listed as a very high threat. Which makes sense. She's an Oni. That controls supernatural. In Gensokyo. If she wanted to she could probobly smash the Hakurei Barrier with her ability, or control any youkai, as they are supernatural beings.
Utusho: Apparently, her danger level is unknown. She controls nuclear fusion. I think very high is given.
No freindliness to humans: AKA: The ones that will kill you
Parsee: Nothing more to say about the freindliness. She's a medium threat, which makes some sense too.
Satori: Apparently, Satori hates humans! She's also a very high threat, which makes sense, seeing as mind hax. This puts Satori as a character you REALLY wouldn't want to run into I guess.
Yoshika: I don't get this. Yoshika was portrayed as VERY freindly. Apparently she is not freindly to humans at all. In addittion, she's bound to Seiga's will, so she's as freindly as Seiga would be. [Although this might explain why she acted this was in TD]. The danger level is Very High, for obvious reasons to do with eating anything.
Koishi: Apparently she has no freindliness to humans... but then you realise this is Koishi. She's not against them too, she simply can't care. Her danger is apparently unknown.
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So yeah, there's some things that make sense, and some I don't understand the reasoning behind, like Murasa [ESPECIALLY Murasa], Kanako , Hina, Mamizou, Miko, Ichirin and Nazrin.
Why are these characters so dangerous... or not? Why is Sanae less freindly to humans than an Evil Hermit? Why is an omniscient no danger at all?
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As I interpret it, the friendly/danger levels represent how much the character tries to socialize with humans (Seiga is stated to love humans and go around following people all the time, and Miko is great to talk to, apparently, while Sanae, although amicable, considers herself/actually is a goddess, so she probably doesn't associate with mortals as often) and how likely they are to harm/attack/bother humans (Mamizou is a prankster, so she'd frequently annoy humans; Miko and Sanae might be very powerful, but the chances of them antagonizing humans is very low), respectively.
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However why would Aya, however bad a journalist she is, use a photo of someone else under the large headline "The 9th Girl of Are Appears"? She should by all means take a picture of the infant in the arms of her family, right? So I had to come up with convoluted explanation such as "the Hieda family didn't allow it" and so on.
Because she couldn't/was too lazy to get one? I fail to see how that's convoluted.
Besides, the picture isn't necessarily relevant to the birth of the child of Miare, just to the child of Miare.
"Akyu grew up to the age of 8 almost immediately after being born" sounds much more contrived than "Aya couldn't be arsed to get a relevant picture"
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"Akyu grew up to the age of 8 almost immediately after being born" sounds much more contrived than "Aya couldn't be arsed to get a relevant picture"
I've already abandoned the "fast growth" idea several posts ago, I'm supporting the "Child of Are's soul enters an already grown child" theory now. The implied creepiness actually fits ZUN, come to think of it. Though to Akyu herself, it might simply feel like a sudden awakening, an understanding of her purpose in life.
Aya is only lazy when it comes to writing good articles, never in her photo shooting, especially when the maidens of Gensokyo are involved, otherwise the entirety of the two photography games wouldn't happen. Come on, I've thought this through. Reporting on the girls is Aya's calling. You wouldn't say "infants don't count", right? Humans grow up fast in youkai's eyes.
(When I didn't believe it could be Akyu, my theory eventually escalated to funny but contrived scenes like "Aya took a picture of an older child, in hope that younger youkai didn't know what human infants look like").
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Miko: Might have been a decent fighter in the real world but in Gensokyo she has to rely more on brains than brawn. That sword doesn't get much use in a realm where the default method of combat is MAGIK BOOLETS. :V That much said I imagine she's got a dozen schemes in the works at any given time, so facing her in single combat is probably the last thing you'd need to worry about.
Seiga's friendliness is...Well, it's arguably a false friendliness in that just because she's being polite doesn't mean she necessarily is going to treat people well. Also, given her ability to phase through walls you'd think she'd be at least a notch more dangerous.
I don't get how Sanae is merely Friendly to humans, either. Perhaps because she's built up a major rapport with the Youkai Mountain residents? As for her threat level, SoP-M says that her miracle ability is a bit of a lotto, so it's probably too difficult to use as a weapon. Also, she's kind of a ditz, after all. :V
Kanako: I got nothin'. :V
Rin: I'm just gonna guess that Rin was providing requisite smack talk here. :V
Ichirin/Unzan: UNZAN SMASH PUNY THREAT RATINGS. Also, IIRC Yoshika is at least capable of some autonomy whereas Unzan requires the go code from Ichirin to do anything, hence separate entry for Yoshika.
Suwako: Once again, I got nothin'. :V
Shou: As previous. :getdown:
Nitori: I suspect she's just tired of humans demanding tech support. :V Also, Hell yeah Nitori is dangerous! (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=4578678)
Hina: Dunno enough about her to make a call. :V
Byakuren: She's already gotten burned once by humans, she doesn't drink (which means she already separates herself from a HUGE portion of Gensokyo festivities), and she doesn't do much about itinerant youkai that use the Myouren Temple as a place to beat up people and generally make mischief. Or so Akyu claims. :getdown: As for her threat level, I figure she doesn't pick fights often enough for anyone to really tell conclusively.
Nazrin: I figure Shou takes advice from Nazrin for a reason. But more deadly than the Moriya crew...?
Tojiko: "A Very High threat level, which isn't much of a shocker..." I'm sorry, but was that a lightning pun? :derp:
Murasa: But there's plenty of smaller bodies of water. DEATH BY TOILET!
Yamame: Probably somewhat of a lower threat due to...Eirin being really good at making vaccines, perhaps? :V Also I could have sworn she was relatively friendly but this may be one of those polite-is-not-necessarily-nice cases.
Satori: Nobody likes Satori. :(
Yoshika: Either she doesn't or is incapable of realizing what she is doing and is very chatty with people even as she's nomming them, or she's mindless. In the latter case she's like Koishi and is incapable of genuine aggression or genuine compassion.
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The implied creepiness actually fits ZUN, come to think of it.
It does?
Aya is only lazy when it comes to writing good articles, never in her photo shooting, especially when the maidens of Gensokyo are involved, otherwise the entirety of the two photography games wouldn't happen. Come on, I've thought this through. Reporting on the girls is Aya's calling. You wouldn't say "infants don't count", right?
I wouldn't exactly equate the challenge of dodging danmaku trying to get the perfect shot, and the "challenge" of getting someone to allow her to take a photo of a baby.
On top of that, her usual method is "take an interesting photo, then make up an article about it." Since it's pretty obvious that in this case the article came first, going out and taking a picture may have seemed a chore.
Not to mention the fact that she mightn't have liked the idea of having a "boring" photo in her newspaper, and just substituted something that looked better. There's numerous reasons that she might have used a different photo, and none of them are particularly "out there."
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On Hina, misfortune that can be brought on someone can be pretty bad, as stated in her SoPM article :
"There is no cure against unluckiness. Injury, disease, bankruptcy, divorce... Every possible influence imaginable."
and well the possibilities are endless, someone might get misfortune in the form of death or (similar to what Yamame can do) someone might end up getting an infectious disease and start a plague throughout the humans.
For Byakuren, she can't participate in human festivities (like drinking) and well it was the humans that sealed her.
For Murasa, her high threat is pretty much because she can kill humans, sinking ships (I would guess that humans use fishing boats and probably use ship to get from place to place) can cause people to drown and well it can be anything related to water that kills.
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It seems that Murasa is pretty much forced to kill humans, and can't really help it.
No cure against unluckiness? Does that mean her ability would override Tewi's?
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Murasa's able to drown people, not just ships and her article talks about people having water related accidents when ritual cleansing at a shrine, or fishing and whatnot.
And for the most part just because somebody's incredibly powerful, ie kanako doesn't mean they're dangerous, if they're peaceful and pose no threat to humans they could be considered low on the threat scale.
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Not to mention the fact that she mightn't have liked the idea of having a "boring" photo in her newspaper, and just substituted something that looked better. There's numerous reasons that she might have used a different photo, and none of them are particularly "out there."
I've already considered that possibility, too.
Well, following this line of thought, Akyu asking Aya (who she of course have always known; the first Miare may even predate Aya) "why did you never take a picture of me when I was a toddler" certainly would be a funny scene.
I was reminded of this when reading KimikoMuffin's excellent comic Cottagesnagged...
There are actually two types of bombs in Touhou games: Spell Cards and Spirit Strikes.
The bombs in most shooting games are Spell Cards, while the bombs in IaMP, MoF and SA are Spirit Strikes, that's why they function differently from traditional bombs. Spirit Strike is of course available in SWR/Soku as a System Card. Meanwhile, the Spirit Strikes in SA are Remote Spirit Strikes, implying that they come from the partner characters.
The English translation patches have always translated Spirit Strikes as simply "Bombs", that's why this difference is not obvious to oversea fans.
I'm not saying the English patch translators are in the wrong; they may have other factors such as text space on the screen to consider.
Speaking of things omitted due to screen space, do you know that even the weather effects displayed during a SWR/Soku game contain the phrase "to the extent of"? (My preferred translation of that phrase is "enough to".)
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I see it as a picture of one of the Hieda family members, not necessarily a picture even, as it could be a drawing. Look at Letty's picture. Clearly Aya cannot possibly take a photo of Letty AND Letty getting beat up by Reimu at the same time. Also, Look at Remilia's article, there is no picture of her.
I don't really how it has to be a picture of Akyuu and not a picture of what Aya thinks Akyuu should look like.
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Never thought I'd get into a prolonged debate about Aya's paparazziism. Cheers to the gods of humor and journalism :) .
I see it as a picture of one of the Hieda family members, not necessarily a picture even, as it could be a drawing. Look at Letty's picture. Clearly Aya cannot possibly take a photo of Letty AND Letty getting beat up by Reimu at the same time. Also, Look at Remilia's article, there is no picture of her.
I don't really how it has to be a picture of Akyuu and not a picture of what Aya thinks Akyuu should look like.
Touhou vampires can't be seen in mirrors, so they can't be photoed? I like the idea.
It's also untrue: not only is Aya taking pictures of Remilia and Flandre in StB, her comments also said nothing about vampires not showing up in pictures. They can't be seen in some StB spell cards, but definitely can be seen in others. Regarding BAiJR's Remilia photo, the two black spots in the centre of the energy blast are her wings, and Flandre is there in her photo.
The PMiSS picture we are talking about is intended to be a photo in-universe. I'll explain why.
If you have the full scans of BAiJR, you'll see that under every news article photo, there is a note saying 撮影協力 satsuei kyouryoku "photography assistant/help/support", followed by a name, which is the name of the picture's artist in real life. These both give credits to the artists, and also indicate the pictures are photos. The same note is in the PMiSS article.
ZUN decided to not do such 4th wall breaking in the SoPM news clips, but that's his call, maybe he has indeed come to take the Touhou universe slightly more seriously himself. (The clips in SoPM are also minor articles, not front pages like those in BAiJR and PMiSS.)
Now I want to talk about BAiJR a bit...
The interviews don't have the newspaper background texture and page headers. The indication is that BAiJR is an in-universe book collection of Aya's writing. The news articles were straight reprints of the paper's front pages - along with ads and such, while the follow-up interviews were specially conducted for the book.
The pictures for the interviews with Aya in them don't have such notes. They might be drawn illustrations in-universe, but not definitely so: Aya is doing them specially for her big book, thus it's conceivable for Aya to bring an assistant who takes pictures (or indeed, draw pictures) of interviewer and interviewee together. And this being a book not a newspaper or magazine, the assistant(s) can be credited in the copyright section elsewhere, rather than here alongside the interview.
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On the topic of ZUN liking "implied creepiness" (or to use TVTropes language, Fridge Horror)... Sorry, I have to ramble a little.
All those debates about things like "Byakuren left the humans on her ship to die" didn't happen for no reason. I've debated about "organized human hunts" on this board a few days ago. And have you read "Death of the Honest Men" (Dolls in Pseudo Paradise CD-R story), the most cryptic story, and the only straight horror story in Touhou canon?
Of course I'm of the opinion that the smaller, more local and personal "horrors" in Touhou universe are all exaggerated: Byakuren is not a murderer, "Death of the Honest Men" is a story told by Alice that may be a metaphor for something about her, Kisume was just throwing some fake human bones around to scare people, and Murasa hasn't killed anyone for real since entering Gensokyo. The larger horrors about the world system which Gensokyo stands against, however, are not: "Lunarians transformed humans into demons/monsters to regulate the filth on earth" (IN, scarlet team scenario); "The celestial realm is a great keystone. When it was removed from earth, everything on earth died." (SWR, Reisen's ending)
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Isn't it reasonable to assume that the whole shindig happened when Akyu was older? How would you even know she inherited the powers if she was too young to talk yet? That, or ZUN just screwed up and used a picture that makes no sense. I doubt he'd be concocting some convoluted thing about Aya being too lazy to use a good picture, or whatever other explanation you can come up with, without hinting at it in any way, or having Akyu herself apparantly take any notice of the picture being wrong.
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Isn't it reasonable to assume that the whole shindig happened when Akyu was older? How would you even know she inherited the powers if she was too young to talk yet?
Your reasoning is sound. The reincarnations of Tibetan tulku are generally discovered when they were young children, and the Avatar series used that idea. However, other possibilities are still open: each Child could have left notes predicting the exact time of the next reincarnation, or give omens when the time is near. It's entirely possible for the family to know about the correct time of Miare's return.
I doubt he'd be concocting some convoluted thing about Aya being too lazy to use a good picture, or whatever other explanation you can come up with, without hinting at it in any way, or having Akyu herself apparantly take any notice of the picture being wrong.
So do I think. That's the right place to use Occam's razor.
I'm now back to composing another post, to examine the page, more thoroughly again.
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The facts:
1. The newspaper is from 1994 summer.
2. The photo depicts a small girl.
3. The large headline above the photo is "The Ninth Maiden of Miare Appears".
4. The article says "...the Hieda family announced the birth of a new Maiden of Are".
5. The part at the end of article invites everyone to the birthday celebration for Child of Miare at Hakurei Shrine.
(The wording here is 生誕祝賀 "birthday celebration", which technically can mean anything: celebrating a new birth, a living person's birthday, or anniversary of a birth 1000 years ago.)
6. Akyu's note, "news article from the time of my birth".
7. In Memorizable Gensokyo, the manga that accompanies PMiSS, Akyu said "I've only lived as the ninth [Child] for a little less than 10 years". (Mistranslation in English scans.) Memorizable Gensokyo takes place in 2006 autumn, soon before the publishing of Gensokyo Chronicles.
My current opinion:
None of the convoluted theories are needed, and Zil is right. Even my previous theory about "soul entering the child's body" is unnecessary.
Akyu may simply know nothing about herself being the Child of Miare, until a certain day, when her power and memories awaken. Maybe like the Tibetan tulku, it took a series of rituals and tests for the Hieda to recognize her as the Child.
No matter what exactly happened then, Akyu considers a certain moment in 1994 her true birth.
Regarding Akyu's line in Memorizable Gensokyo, "A little less than 10 years" sounds like an error (over 11 years passed between 1994 summer and 2006 autumn), but it could mean Akyu only formally began living as Child of Miare since 1995 or 1996.
And for all we know, Hieda family could be announcing that "now we know we have a Maiden of Miare", not "this newborn child is a Maiden of Miare".
The birthday celebration can really mean anything. The Hieda family may consider the moment Akyu become Maiden of Miare her birth, too. Akyu's awakening might happen when her birthday was near. The Hieda family might formally recognize her as the Child, or publically announce her identity near her birthday, by choice or by tradition.
The Japanese THWiki thinks Akyu's age to be 11-13 in 2006. I think she's older, at very least 14 in 2006.
EDIT:
Defenders of the "soul vessel" theory told me this is no better than "soul vessel". Well, first, I've put all relevant info together here in one post, so that anyone can make up her own mind; second, replace "Akyu awakened" with "the soul of Child of Miare came to Akyu", and it's really not much different from the soul vessel theory. It could happen naturally, or it could be the result of a terrifically grueling ritual, it's all up to you.
EDIT 2:
The main evidence of the "soul vessel" theory is this line in "Monologue", PMiSS, regarding the Child's physical body:
...it takes nearly a hundred years to prepare my body for the next reincarnation...
Which can be read in several different ways.
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Touhou vampires can't be seen in mirrors, so they can't be photoed? I like the idea.
It's also untrue: not only is Aya taking pictures of Remilia and Flandre in StB
I don't quite understand what you are getting at. Whether it is true or untrue is not too relevant. The relevant point is there is no picture of Remilia in that article. What I am trying to say is that the articles do not necessitate the picture of the person in quest. It is relevant to the subject in question though. Since we see a picture of the scarlet mist or whatever that is.
The case of drawing the picture in is sound mainly because for several of the articles, you see pictures that are impossible to take. Like the Letty example I have given or the Kaguya/Mokou in the forest fire one. You cannot take pictures of their thoughts and you cannot take pictures of Letty talking and Letty getting beat up by Reimu at the same time. The time line simply will not match up.
So, my point is really that it could easily have been a drawing of what Aya thinks Akyuu looks like or a drawing of the subject matter at hand. Which is the Hieda family introduces the 9th Maiden of Miare.
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My previous post was too long-winded, trying to put the entire BAiJR book in context (which is answering part of your claim, but unrelated to the more important question about Akyu), and then I got distracted into a rant about horror in the Touhou universe. I apologize for that.
So to be more concise: there is a "photography support" note under that PMiSS picture, which is irrefutable evidence that the picture is supposed to be a photo in-universe.
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That I did not see. I assume it is in the original scans then. I can only rely on what I have access to and make judgements based on that.
The point I have been trying to make is that there are other more reasonable explanations, which is why I do not buy the accelerated growth or the born as an 8th year old with no explanation. Which is why I wrote 2 things, it could be a drawing or it could be a picture of the subject matter. Which is the celebration, not necessarily a picture of Akyuu.
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Yeah, but my claim has since shifted to basically this:
A girl was born a few years before 1994, and something happened in 1994 summer, turning her into Akyu, the ninth Child of Miare. Akyu thinks of the event in 1994 summer as her birth.
Regarding the nature of this "something", I say "her power awakened", and the soul vessel theory says "the Miare soul entered her body".
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Yes, and it is a much better possibility than the soul thing and the accelerated growth. Those are just too bizarre.
While I still disagree with you, your theory is sound.
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I think we have ever seen a Youkai that could manipulate Dreams yet... O.o
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I don't remember where, but I recall something about Yukari being able to enter dreams via her powers. (Though there's not much she CAN'T do)
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Yeah, but that's Yukari, and well Yukari is Yukari...completely overpowered even in Gensokyo.
I'm talking about an actual Youkai that has something to do with Dreams, like a Baku.
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Maybe a Touhou game will take place within a character's (or multiple characters') dreams/minds. That would be a nice change of pace (although a lot of it will probably be "What the hell are all these fairies doing in my head!?"
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Omg :D You are right I didnt actually noticed this stuff haha
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Glancing at Reimu's wiki article, I noticed a passage saying she was left-handed, or at least ambidextrous. I took a look at all her in-game art, and realized it was right; Reimu is shown to hold her gohei in either hand, varying on the game. How did I never notice this? :o
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When I was watching videos of SoEW, I could never figure out what's written on the loading screen. "HUMA"? What is that?
Today I finally played the PC-98 games, and saw it clearly. It says:
東方封魔録
The Story of "HUMA" in Eastern Wonderland
And I realized that "HUMA" is a romanization of 封魔 "fuuma" - "sealing of demon", as in Touhou Fuumaroku, the Japanese title of the game. ZUN didn't know how to translate it, so he left it in this form, capitalized and quoted.
With this mystery solved, it's now obvious that "The Story of "HUMA" in Eastern Wonderland" is intended to be an English translation of Touhou Fuumaroku. Also notice that all games in the series except for TH02 put both their main titles and subtitles on the menu screens...
This means that TH02 is the only Touhou game ever without a subtitle. and "Story of Eastern Wonderland" is most likely an invention of Western fans, who intentionally or not, misinterpreted the loading screen. Thus the Western fandom was forever spared the pain of having to call TH02 using awkward and unstandardized names like "HUMA", "Fuuma", EW or SoHiEW, like what would happen with Hisoutensoku.
Fate surely works in strange ways. :getdown:
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The subtitle "(the) Story of Eastern Wonderland" can be seen on ZUN's website, specifically his old music page (http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/music_old.html). Checking archives shows it's always been there (at least to 2001, anyway).
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Ah yes, the old music page. Thank you ZUN for not forgetting to give TH02 a subtitle, even if it's not seen in the game itself! Imagine having to type "The Story of "HUMA" in Eastern Wonderland" every time... :getdown:
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Tried Reimu in LLS for the first time yesterday and noticed Marisa's holding a rather large flower instead of her broom or wand in her stage 4 boss fight.
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Marisa had the same pose (riding/holding a flower, surrounded by spheres) when she first appeared as a boss in SoEW. She rides an ordinary broom as a player character in PC-98 games though.
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Marisa had the same pose (riding/holding a flower, surrounded by spheres) when she first appeared as a boss in SoEW. She rides an ordinary broom as a player character in PC-98 games though.
Right, that sounds vaguely familiar. I only played SoEW maybe three or four times and it was a long time ago though, so I wasn't completely sure if I was remembering that right.
Seems kind of arbitrary that she only has it as a boss in two games, especially since she does have the broom and wand as a player character in LLS.
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I remember listening to the songs in Phantasmagria of Dimensional Dream, and noticing something interesting. A bit of Marisa's theme, Dimension Dream, has similar chords to Mima's Reincarnation. Considering PC-98 Marisa respected Mima a lot it doesn't exactly surprise me.
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(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8331/th01reimu.png)
In this picture of Reimu, in amongst the weird lines of her hair, there's what looks suspiciously like a pointed ear.
Of course this leads me to the obvious conclusion that Reimu is secretly a half-elf.
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^ :wat:
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Time for something rather "general" and obvious in Windows non-spinoff games:
For stage 6 bosses, all but Miko uses bubbles at least once in their non-spells.
Their 4th spells always include some aimed bullets/lasers except Eirin.
All Extra bosses but Koishi use pellets as one of the bullets in their final spells. Yukari is a Phantasm boss.
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^ :wat:
What's the matter? It does look a bit like an ear. Or at least like the sort of ear Zun would have been capable of drawing at the time.
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Marisa had the same pose (riding/holding a flower, surrounded by spheres) when she first appeared as a boss in SoEW. She rides an ordinary broom as a player character in PC-98 games though.
Aaaaand I forgot to mention that her pose in her IN portrait and boss sprite is very similar to that. Definitely a callback to old games.
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Their 4th spells always include some aimed bullets/lasers except Eirin.
Hell's Tokamak, Lifespring Infinity, Out of Place Artifact?
All Extra bosses but Koishi use pellets as one of the bullets in their final spells. Yukari is a Phantasm boss.
You meant petals I think, but okay.
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lots of touhous wear hats!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hell's Tokamak, Lifespring Infinity, Out of Place Artifact?
Oh FAIL FAIL FAIL :blush:
I think I go too general there as such pattern observation can end up to something like "the final boss has 5 spell 4 non-spell, Kaguya has 10 spell, Byakuren has 6 spells, Miko has 7 spells" =.=
Never mind, I know another one: In Byakuren's spells, she don't move if she has a lotus with her, and always move if she doesn't have a lotus with her. DS scene 12-3 is a really good example. The non-spells don't follow this rule though.
Since Mokou, the extra bosses have at least 2 types of patterns that repeats with slight variations.
Mokou has easier/harder red/purple rings. (4/5, 6/7/8)
Suwako has zig-zag pattern (3/6), reflecting pattern (2/5), streaming (4/7).
Koishi has ring spawning(1/4), slow streaming (7/8), although everything else is similar as well.
Nue has mini-suns (6/7) and amulet cluster (1/5).
Marisa has them all paired. (1/4)(2/5)(3/6)(7/8)
Mamizou....you get the idea.
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There are tons and tons of design patterns and progressions ZUN uses throughout the series. Most of them, however, are completely generalized and you'll never find things that truly match up throughout if you're looking at numbers and explicit repetitions instead of meaning.
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I'm recently reminded of this dialogue:
Ten Desires, Marisa scenario:Have a look around.
These transient lights, like stars in the sky.
Each and every one of them is a human desire.
Observe a human's desires, and you can understand the entirety of that human.
Past, present, and future, as well.
One might say that this mausoleum is Gensokyo's Akashic Records....
This reminds me of the problem of Futo and Miko using spell card rules. I don't have time to go over the "something about Futo" thread again. Did anyone mentioned it there?
According to Miko. even during the short time between Miko's awakening and the player character's entrance, she was already able to learn a great deal about Gensokyo from the gathered spirits. She may have heard of the spell card rules from them, or at least now that she understood that she was in Gensokyo, she was willing to use spell card rules.
During that dialogue, Miko was bragging about how deeply she understood Gensokyo, when she knew far less than she thought. Later in SoPM, she would instead emphasize her ignorance about Gensokyo, as if she came out of her mausoleum completely unprepared. Too bad Marisa didn't call her out on her half-lie.
The remaining problem is why Futo can use spell cards. My explanation: she has no difficulty learning about new games of magic duels; it's all the other aspects of life that pose troubles to her.
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Yesterday, it hit my out of completely nowhere that the title/ending theme of Fairy Wars has the same basic melody as stage 2. Compare the eight second mark of the ending theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3pCGHEc7tw) to the twelve second mark of the stage 2 theme. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wBvoAGkDaU)
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In Perfect Cherry Blossom, if after playback of a replay the final score does not match the score in the replay, the game will write the new score to the replay; I now have an HS replay with a purported score of 9,055,281,490. :V
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The name of Genbu Marsh, or Genbu Ravine, contains a few layers of real world reference.
First of all, there was a Genbu cave (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8E%84%E6%AD%A6%E6%B4%9E) in Hyogo prefecture, probably named after the turtle-shell-like basalt rock formations around the cave.
Then a Japanese geologist Bunjiro Koto named basalt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt) 玄武岩 "Genbu-gan" (Genbu rock) after the cave, thus forever associating "Genbu" with one of the most common types of rock on earth. In daily usage, the word "genbu-gan" appears much more often than just "genbu".
So what ZUN did is to transplant the idea of basalt formations along with a cave into Gensokyo, etymology of the name included. The valley, needless to say, is a basalt valley formed by lava from Youkai mountain, not one caused by water erosion. And to add further to the joke, he named the valley 沢 "sawa" (more often meaning "swamp" than anything else) rather than 谷 "tani" (the common word for valley), because don't you see, the corresponding element for Genbu is water.
In this light, which name do you prefer, Genbu Marsh or Genbu Ravine? My position is now wavering, since words like "ravine" or "dale" carry a too strong connotation of "water erosion".
I feel tempted to add this to the wiki, but I've never been a wiki editor before.
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And there's still more coincidence. The naming of "genbu-gan" happened in 1884, the year Great Hakurei Border was established.
The etymology of the word "ravine" is "violent rush of water". "Gully" is "water channel". "Dale" and "valley" are unrelated to water erosion.
On the other hand, the meaning of "sawa" as "valley" DOES come from water erosion.
Hmm, in the end, "marsh" or "ravine" may not matter that much. What actually matters is, the name's connection to basalt is extremely obvious in Japanese, not so in English. A Google search shows that "basalt" is always one of the first things mentioned about Genbu no Sawa.
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When I finally got around to re-watch the 5th TH M-1, I finally noticed Reisen is actually Nue. :V
I am so unobservant.
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Every single Subterranean Animism boss theme has piano in it.
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Sakuya's a human.
Patchouli is the name of a fragrance
Flandre is another way of saying Flander.
(http://idigitalcitizen.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ned-flanders.jpg)
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Every character in Ten Desires associate with Miko in some way incorporates a sharp weapon in their danmaku.
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-Kaguya has the Five Impossible Requests around her in her IN portrait.
-Aya's shoes are one-pegged Getas.
-Remilia's hand in EoSD are broken.
(http://www.neuropod.net/imagehost/uploads/cbb51b4cb173d1d21c11d97b7c90318a.png)
Seriously, Dafuq is with those hands?
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-Remilia's hand in EoSD are broken.
(http://www.neuropod.net/imagehost/uploads/cbb51b4cb173d1d21c11d97b7c90318a.png)
Seriously, Dafuq is with those hands?
1. She was keeping up the mist spell at the time (which she's molding in the shape of bat wings, hence the figure)
2. ZUN ART IS BEST ART
3. #2 ad infinitum
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Sakuya's a human.
Patchouli is the name of a fragrance
Flandre is another way of saying Flander.
(http://idigitalcitizen.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ned-flanders.jpg)
Taboo "Longinus"
Taboo "Maze of Friendship"
Q.E.D. "Ripples of 45 Years"
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Sakuya has Roman numerals on her PoFV uniform.
Also I've just realized Shiki's EX attacks appear to shoot corndogs when she grazes.
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Sakuya has Roman numerals on her PoFV uniform.
And Luna Child has moon phases on her skirt.
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That in Shoot The Bullet, you can catch pictures of the timer, the spellcard name and other elements of the HUD.
Not sure if I have just been mentally filtering it out this whole time or if I've really only just now taken pictures of the timer.
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This is a theory I heard of recently.
As CoLA has explained, the word "yakumo" originated from the phrase "yakumo tatsu". CoLA traced it to Susanoo's poem about founding the country of Izumo. The Izumo region actually had its own mythology recorded in Izumo Fudoki, that differs from the official, mainstream version in Kojiki and Nihon Shoki. In this mythology, the founding of Izumo also started with the phrase "yakumo tatsu".
Now, the country of Izumo is said to be a marvelous country of gods, ruled by Ookuninushi. Later, Amaterasu would grant the three Imperial Regalia to her grandson Ninigi, and send him to earth as ruler of Japan, and Ookuninushi would surrender Izumo to Ninigi - peacefully, in the official account of the story. (All these, of course, are reflections of the early history of Japan, the exact meaning of which scholars are still debating about.)
So... isn't the connection blindingly obvious? Yukari is connected to Izumo, the paradise that was. The fall of Izumo and the imprisonment of Ookunishinushi is still on her mind, and Gensokyo is a revival or continuation of the ideal of Izumo. This is what she has been fighting for.
As evidence of Yukari's dislike for Amatsukami (heavenly gods), there was this line from Subterranean Animism EX:
(Is it okay to call gods idiots?
Well, I guess it is.)
I think this theory is the best kind of theory: simple and resonant. It's also consistent with my interpretation of Touhou. Thematically, my main problem is that it introduces the idea of "good ruler" into Touhou: "the world will be right again if the good ruler is in charge", not to mention this good ruler Ookuninushi happens to be male, in what should be a story of powerful women governing themselves. I'd prefer to view Ookuninushi and Izumo as representing the ideal that formed the foundation of Gensokyo, rather than a rightful regime to be restored.
From my reading, I gathered that at least part of Japanese fandom was enraged when SSiB Ch 19 (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_bougetsushou_silent_sinner_in_blue/v01/c019/1.html) spent nine pages talking about "femtofiber" rather than advancing the plot. They called it "proof that the plot is out of control". Whatever the significance of Ch 19 is, these fans completely missed its point.
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@cuc: Isn't that from Curiosities of Lotus Asia? :P
...Also, does your name mean what I think it means? ;o
EDIT: Derp, just re-read your post >_>; But yeah...that one CoLA chapter was an interesting relevation on the meanings of Yukari's name ;o btw it's not really a theory, it's pretty much a canon interpretation of her name :3
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@cuc: Isn't that from Curiosities of Lotus Asia? :P
...Also, does your name mean what I think it means? ;o
Rinnosuke fixated on how "yakumo" represents her power to trap people. This is the standard narrative trick of CoLA: Rinnosuke has lots of knowledge, so he can provide exposition; but he's also an idiot, so he tends to draw the wrong conclusion from this info, leaving the readers to decide its meaning by themselves.
My ID definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Actually, I think Rinnosuke was referring more about how the name "Yakumo" meant Yukari was trying to keep the Hakurei shrine maidens inside Gensokyo to maintain it. But your interpretation works also, I guess :P
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I can't agree with the idea that Rinnosuke's interpretation is the canon interpretation of events. Curiousities of Lotus Asia makes it very clear that he misinterprets many many things.
He sprouts crap even though Reimu(and the facts say Reimu is right) straight up contradicted him and instead of rescinding his comments, he makes up more crap. While Reimu does not know better, us the reader do know that he is blantantly wrong.
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As midboss, Eirin's spell background is not hers, but Reisen's. I wa SHOCK. :o
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Despite being elevated to fantastic, if not mythical, status, there has yet to be a character whose profession is stated to be a ninja or shinobi. Especially since the more legendary aspects of the ninja was already being created at the time of the creation of the border.
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I believe Yuyuko can do some ninjitsu moves. I think one of them was the clone technique.
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The frogs on Suwako's dress are taken from the Chōjū-jinbutsu-giga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%8Dj%C5%AB-jinbutsu-giga), which are also known as the "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals" just like Mamizou's spellcard. :o
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The games' bullet limits increase over the course of the Windows series. EoSD could have a maximum of 640 bullets, PCB increased this to 1024, IN increased this again to 1536, and MoF onwards have a maximum of 2000. Also, all of the aforementioned games have at least one spellcard where the limit is reached.
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Satori's first non-spell has the bubble bullets make a heart shape. Didn't notice this until like the fifteenth time I fought her.
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Been trying to learn PoDD's secrets. Was, rather. (Patchy stole Rikako's theme, btw.) More than half of the info on the wiki is dead wrong. In any event, here are some notes I took when watching one of my recordings. I don't know where to put them, so I'll put them here. For the curious.
Chiyuri 1cc - 12:05 - I trigger a boss panic with a spell score exceeding 300k. (My boss attack was already on Marisa's field, so this merely triggered a level 3 spell). Marisa reaches a spell score of 56,940 (greater than what the wiki claims is needed) and a boss attack is not triggered. She then skyrockets to 655,350 and triggers a boss attack. (I can't tell if it's a boss panic or not. I can't see any spell bullets.) She then triggers something else with the spell score still at the max (the game sends the warning, but I see nothing), and I trigger a boss attack (no apparant level 3) instantly after, though my spell points have not reset since the earlier boss panic, and they have only increased by ~100k. I then bomb, preventing me from seeing if the second thing Marisa triggered was a level 3 (which I suspect it was). Marisa's score resets.
Marisa then manually launches a level 3 spell, lingers for a moment with a spell score of ~150k (no boss attack), then jumps to 264,220, triggering a boss attack and repulsing my own. Some bullets from the previously launched level 3 fail to appear, perhaps in reaction to her triggered boss attack. I then jump to 655,350 (note that my spell score STILL has not reset) and trigger yet another boss attack (there is no level 3). The whole ordeal takes under 20 seconds. My spell score resets shortly after. My boss attack dissapears, and I trigger another with a score of 56,840. (Lower than the score of 56,940 which failed to trigger a boss attack for Marisa.)
:colonveeplusalpha:
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I just realized that the Lunarians got to the moon through what is essentially a knockoff of the Infinite Improbability Drive from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. :V
Somewhere, somewhen, there is a potted plant swearing certain, bloody vengeance on Eirin. :getdown:
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Yeah basically. That's also how Toyohime's ability works. You can't really call it a knockoff though, it's just using the same principle.
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I just realised since that Yukari can manipulate boundaries of all kinds she she make herself faster than Aya and maybe even stronger than Shiki.
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Yeah basically. That's also how Toyohime's ability works. You can't really call it a knockoff though, it's just using the same principle.
I know, I was just joking. :V
I just realised since that Yukari can manipulate boundaries of all kinds she she make herself faster than Aya and maybe even stronger than Shiki.
Why would she need super-speed when she can simply gap her way around and be at point B before Aya even started moving?
The fastest route between two points is to make them both one point! :V
Also, heavy lifting is something Yukari usually is quite capable of delegating to someone else, isn't it?
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@Yukari: Yukari's abilities are quite limited. She cannot travel from the earth to the moon, unless it is during the full moon for instance.
@Toyohime: As for Toyohime's ability to get from the earth to the moon. I assume they got to the moon some other way. I don't believe Toyohime was born at the time when Eirin and the others went to the moon.
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Chen without shikigami status has the power to surprise people.
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Even though Satori can read your mind she can know past trauma and such events in the past...
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Kasen can control cryptids, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptids
THAT'S A LOT OF FAMILIARS. :getdown:
Also, I just noticed this courtesy of the wiki:
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-8000/most-prolific-fan-made-shooter-series/
TOP O' THE WORLD, MA! :]
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I just noticed that the tiles in Highly Responsive to Prayers Makai Route Stage 14 look like wings.
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Also, I just noticed this courtesy of the wiki:
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-8000/most-prolific-fan-made-shooter-series/
TOP O' THE WORLD, MA! :]
ZUN's twitter profile is 「ZUNという名だけ知られているエニグマティクデベロッパー」 which is in reference to the silly title given there.
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SSiB never showed the Lunar Capital. Instead, it only showed the Watatsukis' resident, which is not located in the Lunar Capital.
This clears up my confusion on why there are only traditional Japanese-styled houses on the Lunar Capital, instead of the futuristic skyscrapers we saw in PMiSS.
This also means that Yuyuko never sneaked into the Lunar Capital. She stole that sake from the Watatsukis' resident instead.
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We don't quite know that. We don't know where Yuyuko and Youmu have gone during their approximately month long stay at the moon.
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Well, do they even know how to get there? Remember that the Lunar Capital works like Kasen's house. You gotta take an exact and specific path if you want to go there.
Speculations, speculations.
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Huh? I don't believe the Lunar capital needs any specific path. The reason the crow has to take a specific path is because the crow does not have any sense. So, it has to have a specific flight pattern. Otherwise, if it flies a bit to the left or right, it will end up on the outside of the moon and just die.
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It was stated in SoPM or somewhere else that the Lunar Capital works just like Kasen's house. Since you need to follow a specific path to get to her house...
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There is no specific path you need to take to Kasen's house though. I believe that was why having christmasy looking lights was a bad thing for her house, because people can just go there.
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There is no specific path you need to take to Kasen's house though. I believe that was why having christmasy looking lights was a bad thing for her house, because people can just go there.
Huh, really? I based my assumption on this (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_ibarakasen_wild_and_horned_hermit/v02/c010/23.html) page.
Also, that makes me remember on how the climate on Kasen's house and the Lunar Capital are similar. Not too cold when winter, and not too hot when summer.
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Didn't seem all that specific, since Marisa seems to be able to come back to that house. She fainted on her first venture, so I doubt she knows any specific path.
I mean if you look for any real specific path from the earth to the moon in general, we already see it, when they(Yukari and Ran, Yuyuko and Youmu) move through that sea. This is similar to how they talk about Toyohime's ability to connect the Lunar Capital and Earth.
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Hmm, maybe the path they're talking about is the sea, since I remember it's supposed to be like a labyrinth.
Man, why is Touhou canon so confusing? I wish there's a map for the Moon or even Gensokyo who still doesn't have a canon map.
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That was my impression when I read Silent Sinner in Blue. It was the sea that had some confusing nagivation points. Since the way they used Lunar Capital, it seems to imply that it is really anywhere where the "real moon" is at. Once you are there, getting to the actual capital should be fairly straight forward.
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Aren't the seas on the real moon too?
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Didn't seem all that specific, since Marisa seems to be able to come back to that house. She fainted on her first venture, so I doubt she knows any specific path.
Marisa failed to return to Kasen's house, as revealed in a later chapter (she got lost and attacked by a tiger). She tried to, but never got there. Because Kasen changed her "password". And ZUN mentions in the SOPM interview that the Lunar Capital is similar, so yes. You have to follow a specific path or you'll never reach the destination. It's a form of magical security. Not perfect though, since Komachi could easily bypass it after Kasen changed it to stop Marisa. The Japanese uses a specific word "seiro" to describe it but it only comes up like 2-3 times in the dialog. And Kasen literally calls it her password on the final page joke of chapter 10.
So the implication is that the crow in CILR was following the "seiro" for the Lunar Capital that Yukari somehow figured out.
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The theme of stage 5 in IN, Cinderella Cage ~ Kagome, Kagome ~ actually has the tune for the Kagome, Kagome song incorporated into it.
Only realised this after finding out what Kagome, Kagome sounds like through playing Remember11
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The theme of stage 5 in IN, Cinderella Cage ~ Kagome, Kagome ~ actually has the tune for the Kagome, Kagome song incorporated into it.
Only realised this after finding out what Kagome, Kagome sounds like through playing Remember11
Neat, didn't know about that reference at all. Went to Wikipedia to find out, and they've got a recording of it there... pretty sure it's sung by Miku :wat:.
Okay, I'll have a go too. But the only crazy thing about this is my own blindness:
For years now, I've thought MoF was Aya's first appearance.
I know. The games are numbered. I have no excuse, but I just never realized that not only was she introduced in PoFV, but that even STB came before her first normal game appearance. I know, numbered. :fail:
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The large fairies in UFO Stage 1 shoot the same general pattern as some of the ones in stage 5, just with rice instead of arrows.
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It's not something unnoticed, more like the elephant in the room.
The standard and extremely iconic Touhou loading message is 少女祈祷中 "The maidens are praying", a reference to the piano music A Maiden's Prayer. It has been endlessly parodied and referenced, and most people in East Asia's anime fandoms have seen it, whether they know about Touhou or not. Except in the Western fandom.
Because it generally appear overlapped with the English message "Now Loading...", the Western fandom by custom can ignore it without worrying about what it says, and the English fan translations by custom never translated it. Instead the iconic phrase for Touhou preparation is the Engrishy "girls are preparing, please watch warmly", which no doubt has been amusing people since when most games had no English patches and Western fans had to play the games without reading the text.
Among other things, "Winner of Life" and "Loser Dog" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47261-2004Aug30.html), the victory / defeat declaration of PoFV has suffered the same fate. "Dead Parrot" is an awesome defeat message, but a flat "Winner" is no comparison to "Winner of Life".
I don't have any beef with the wonderful Western fandom and its translators; I'm only marvelling at yet another twist of fate.
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So the "winner of life" thing, is it the same as what was mentioned in Inaba of Moon/Earth where they had "Winner in Life" for Suwako when Suwako thoroughly thrashed Reisen?
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Yes, it is! (Inaba Ch. 13)
"Winner of life", "winner in life", "winner at life". The irony of the message should be clear enough. It's clever to give the players a koan every time to play your game. "Come on, it's just a game, an illusion; by the way, your earthly ambitions are also an illusion."
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Been trying to learn PoDD's secrets. Was, rather. (Patchy stole Rikako's theme, btw.) More than half of the info on the wiki is dead wrong. In any event, here are some notes I took when watching one of my recordings. I don't know where to put them, so I'll put them here. For the curious.
If you notice any more things about PoDD, you should keep posting them. That interests me.
Kasen can control cryptids, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptids
THAT'S A LOT OF FAMILIARS. :getdown:
Oh my god, I just realized Kasen can control Reptoids. There's so much potential for hilarity here.
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"Winner of life", "winner in life", "winner at life". The irony of the message should be clear enough. It's clever to give the players a koan every time to play your game. "Come on, it's just a game, an illusion; by the way, your earthly ambitions are also an illusion."
:o
I just realized that the large fairies at the start of UFO stage 1 could be streamed; I used to think they were random barrages I could only hope to survive.
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If you notice any more things about PoDD, you should keep posting them. That interests me.
Well, something I just noticed. Reimu's theme at 0:19 (and again at 0:30) sounds identical to the start of Chiyuri's theme.
I've also learned that there are a few frames of invincibility just after you use a charge attack, (or spell attack of course.)
Or if you want to read something ridiculous - http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12400.msg833307.html#msg833307
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Or if you want to read something ridiculous - http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12400.msg833307.html#msg833307
Ellen - Fuck Ellen. There's not much to know about her, though she has the mysterious property of dying much more quickly than any other character. I think it's from her slow movement paired with her utterly useless lvl1.
Ahahahah, lost it. Clearly this means Ellen needs to use her cat as a bomb to become a more effective fighter.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vBKW7nybU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vBKW7nybU) has a slight similar melody to 3rd eye...
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Uh oh, more PoDD crap incoming. Maybe a bit more technical this time.
"Either her boss is healthier than everyone else's or it becomes invincible while teleporting..." Something I said once. I've actually found the answer, oddly enough.
So, I knew that the wiki's info about shot damage being different for each character was complete garbage, and I finally decided to go in there and edit it, but didn't want to do so without being completely sure that I was right. So I went into match mode and did a ton of messing around. I'm very happy to say that I actually figured out quite a bit. I'll just copy and paste from the notes I was taking.
~
Reimu Bomb + 10 shots
Mima Bomb + 11 shots
Marisa Bomb + 11 shots
Ellen Bomb + 5 shots
Kotohime Bomb + 10 shots
Kana Bomb + 6 shots
Rikako Bomb + 11 shots
Chiyuri ???
Yumemi Bomb + 20 shots
Marisa's Laser (with a full hit) = 18 shots (Found by lasering Yumemi after a bomb, then needing two more hits.)
Kana is killed by 2 Lasers + 13 shots = 36 + 13 = 49
So bomb power must be 43. Then boss HP is...
Reimu = 53
Mima = 54
Marisa = 54
Ellen = 48
Kotohime = 53
Kana = 49
Rikako = 54
Chiyuri = 68
Yumemi = 63
Chiyuri's health was found by bombing, lasering, and then still needing 7 shots. Contrary to what I expected, she does not avoid bomb damage by teleporting. Apparantly she actually is healthier than everyone else.
- Exploding enemies (most likely) do not damage the boss.
- Blue fireballs have 3 health. Red ones have 4.
- Chiyuri's charge attack does 24 damage. She shoots 8 shots, so 3 damage each. (Found by using it on her own boss attack after bombing, then still needing 2 shots.) It is reassuring that it worked out to be a multiple of 8, since that's exactly what you'd expect.
:derp: No, that's 23 then. I'm shit at math, apparently. So yeah, there must be a mistake somewhere along the lines.
~
Ahh, poor Ellen~ Anyway, this is fascinating to me. I would have guessed that every boss had the same health, perhaps boosted by the boss level. Instead, the reality is that each character's boss attack has a specific amount of health which never changes no matter what the difficulty setting or boss level. It's strange really, and I have to wonder about ZUN's reasoning in making it that way. In some cases it makes sense. You might expect Ellen to have low health since her boss attack is insane and hard to hit, but why Kana? She's already one of the weaker characters, so why give her a wimpy boss? Then there's Chiyuri and Yumemi. Of course, you'd expect the final bosses to be healthier, to help make them a cut above the average characters, but then shouldn't Yumemi be the healthiest? Chiyuri already does a pretty damn good job of being impossible to hit in the first place. Why does she need the most health on top of that? ???
Ah, whatever. Probably a few discrepancies in there (getting a pair of good laser hits on Kana is a bitch), despite Chiyuri's charge attack sort of tying things together like that.
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I think I only realized yesterday that Mima's outfit in the original game resembles a schoolgirl uniform. This never got caught on as a meme or something, I believe...
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On reading Zil's PoDD research I couldn't help but take out Cheat Engine and check for myself:
Nominal Boss HP:
Ellen/Kana: 90HP
Reimu/Mima/Marisa/Kotohime/Rikako: 110HP
Yumemi: 130HP
Chiyuri: 140HP
One pair of shots does 2HP damage. Bomb damage is 90HP, sometimes 89HP. Not sure why the difference occurs. I saw the 1HP difference when I was checking Chiyuri's charge shot damage (48HP total) as well. Weird.
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If gameplay stuff is okay-
I somehow just figured out how to capture Knockout in Three Steps. I've always, always failed it, even on normal, because I assumed I had to be above the bursting outer ring, or it'd spawn into me. This left me never having enough room to avoid the 1st and 2nd as they exit. Then I miscalculated and waited too low, and realized that prevents it from spawning at all, making the rest trivial. :fail:
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On reading Zil's PoDD research I couldn't help but take out Cheat Engine and check for myself:
Oh wow. Thanks for getting a definitive answer on that. I thought it was strange that so many seemed to be just 1 point off from from the rest. I do have to wonder about Ellen/Kana's HP being just as much as the bomb damage though, because I'm certain I've never seen them die from bomb damage alone. Since, from what I did at least, they seemed to take around 5 less shots to kill than the others, with each shot taking 2HP, is it possible that they actually have 100HP instead of 90?
Then I miscalculated and waited too low, and realized that prevents it from spawning at all, making the rest trivial. :fail:
While that's true on Normal (and maybe Hard?) the outer bullets actually will spawn right on top of you on Lunatic, so you have to burrow into the inner rings.
And I should think gameplay stuff is okay, seeing as that's how the thread started.
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Oh wow. Thanks for getting a definitive answer on that. I thought it was strange that so many seemed to be just 1 point off from from the rest. I do have to wonder about Ellen/Kana's HP being just as much as the bomb damage though, because I'm certain I've never seen them die from bomb damage alone. Since, from what I did at least, they seemed to take around 5 less shots to kill than the others, with each shot taking 2HP, is it possible that they actually have 100HP instead of 90?
Yeah, that was a typo, it should be 100HP. I still wonder about the random 1HP damage variation though...
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The standard and extremely iconic Touhou loading message is 少女祈祷中 "The maidens are praying", a reference to the piano music A Maiden's Prayer.
I forgot to mention that the message is "The fairies are warring" in Fairy Wars.
Among other things, "Winner of Life" and "Loser Dog" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47261-2004Aug30.html), the victory / defeat declaration of PoFV has suffered the same fate. "Dead Parrot" is an awesome defeat message, but a flat "Winner" is no comparison to "Winner of Life".
It's really more than a cool one-liner.
To elaborate, the theme of PoFV is judgement, an evaluation of one's life. "Winners" and "losers" in life are labels a materialistic society use to evaluate people. They fit the theme. The score display after each match is called "Your Additional Value", which is another Japanese buzzword about things that separate the winners from the losers.
With all due respect to translators, another one that really should have been kept is UFO's high score marker on the game interface. It's called 億万長者 "Billionaire", in keeping with UFO's gods of fortune theme. Touhou is full of witty thematic naming like that.
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Remember that boring and pedantic post I made about "Spirit Strikes"? I just discovered that the first time "Spirit Strike" appears in Windows canon is not in IaMP, but in PCB.
When you were in Shinra Kekkai / Supernatural Border mode, and either pressed the bomb key or collided with a bullet, causing bullets on screen to be converted into cherry points - that's a Spirit Strike.
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Well thanks to another thread, I just realized what I thought were just big balls in Kogasa's cards are supposed to be the tops of umbrellas. :X
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Looking at Yukari's IaMP character design sheet (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari#Official_Profiles) has confirmed my long-held suspicion: the qipao tabard + gown + tied hair combo (IaMP and IN gameplay) is her combat uniform, while the purple dress is her casual dress.
ちょっとボスらしく戦闘モードに。（式神使役モード）
In battle mode, kind of like a boss. (Shikigami Deployment Mode)
Note that she got changed into the purple dress in IaMP's Bad Ending 2 which takes place after you fighting her. She also did that in IN Border Team ending.
Of course this distinction has been muddied by Hirasaka Makoto, who always drew Yukari in combat dress for his canon artwork. Most fan artists just draw whatever they like.
Setting aside Hirasaka, this has implications:
1) Yukari was seriously prepared for battle when going uninvited to the feast. To fight Suika, not some random heroine-wannabe, we can presume. This makes it even more ironic when Suika didn't get to fight Yukari in her route (which is canon). Here either Yukari decided against intervening, or other characters already defeated Yukari before coming to Suika. Given that Yuyuko is also not among those characters, I'd say the former is likely - more likely than Yukari being accidentally beaten up 7 times in a row, anyway.
2) Unsurprisingly, Yukari never had any intention to fight throughout the Second Genso-Lunar War.
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It just hit me that the perspective in Touhou games makes no sense. The player viewpoint is a 45 degree angle, which makes sense for the most part and with most sprites, but the boss sprites are frontal; they are modeled as if they are looking in the player's direction. That makes absolutely no sense and now my head hurts trying to make sense of it. @_@
EDIT: In the end though, the only perspective that makes sense is that it's Touhou, and the wacky perspectives give the whole thing a strange 3d effect.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HSKWQ.png)
The dark greens spell Marisa, but it's out of order. <_<
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Well thanks to another thread, I just realized what I thought were just big balls in Kogasa's cards are supposed to be the tops of umbrellas. :X
Same. =/
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So the part leading up to the climax in "Septette for the Dead Princess" begins at ~1:08.
108.
I... started looking for other instances in ZUN's songs. Nothing in U.N. Owen, which 2 x 1:08 = 216 = 6 x 6 x 6...
Except it doesn't happen, so.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HSKWQ.png)
The dark greens spell Marisa, but it's out of order. <_<
:o :o :o
:o :o :o
:o :o :o
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vBKW7nybU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vBKW7nybU) has a slight similar melody to 3rd eye...
Holy ducksworthington crap. That is creepy.
How can I still have played DK64 and never noticed that? I feel a little lacking in perceptive abilities, now.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vBKW7nybU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vBKW7nybU) has a slight similar melody to 3rd eye...
Oh, you possibly don't know, ZUN's music mostly sounds like soviet songs.
My grandma thinks the same. About 3rd eye. But she failed to remebmer words.
Hm...
________
Somehow Bach's Menuet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfQJRtf0kr4) resembled me Aya's theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTmUt5144HY). :/
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Noticed this while watching someone else's 1cc replay:
Several of the bosses in SA carry around some kind of distortion effect with them. Like a heat haze sphere, or something. Utsuho does too, but she doesn't get it upon showing up like the others; it's only once she starts her battle.
Satori's stained-glass windows in the Palace of the Earth Spirits are decorated with birds, but I didn't notice any cats.
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Or, it's a person's head, with a large bang in the front and two little ponytail-like sprigs of hair in the back.
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The theme of stage 5 in IN, Cinderella Cage ~ Kagome, Kagome ~ actually has the tune for the Kagome, Kagome song incorporated into it.
Only realised this after finding out what Kagome, Kagome sounds like through playing Remember11
Pulling this post out again to say I've just been playing Corpse Party (50% off on PSN until Nov 2), and I kept going "Man, this song really sounds like it belongs in Touhou..." Realized it was actually kids singing Kagome, Kagome, remembered this post, and felt dumb.
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hey guys did u knew sakura sakura ~ japanize dream is based off of the folk song "sakura sakura"
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hey guys did u knew sakura sakura ~ japanize dream is based off of the folk song "sakura sakura"
Bah, next you'll be sayin' that Septette isn't actually a septette at all!
In MS, I just noticed that Luize doesn't seem to be wearing any shoes during her battle. (I better check the other bosses as well.)
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The 'shirasawa' in Kamishirasawa Keine uses the same Kanji for Hakutaku.
'Yamato Torus' actually isn't a torus. I'm glad it isn't. (Actually I don't care, since I bomb it.)
The word used for 'mysterious' in 'Mysterious Snake Show' is 鵺的(Nue-like). So it becomes something like 'Nue-like Snake Show'.
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'Yamato Torus' actually isn't a torus. I'm glad it isn't.
The reference in danmaku to a torus is that the bullets wrap around the screen. I haven't measured, but there's a short period where the bullets disappear, that is possibly the time it would take for the bullets to actually circle as if it were moving on a torus.
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What I actually meant was that the bullets don't wrap from top to bottom or vice versa.
Reimu and Satori has spellcards that lets them wrap around the whole screen, though.
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I don't know how many people remember or have noticed this, but I was pretty disturbed when I learned that Mystia has green claws for hands (PoFV).
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In EoSD and PCB, holding all the arrows will send you up-right. In all later games, you'll go down-left.
This discovery brought to you by "I bought a mechanical keyboard and can't remember how my hands work."
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I just figured out why Rumia is a bit of a dummy.
It's because since she's a darkness youkai...
...She's not very bright. BV
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I just figured out why Rumia is a bit of a dummy.
It's because since she's a darkness youkai...
...She's not very bright. BV
oh u
I just realised that Kourin is half-human, half-youkai.
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I never realized that in IN, Yukari shoots out Ran along with her concentrated attack. I guess i always figured that it was a different shikigami or something that Yukari controlled lol.
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There's no such thing as Lily Black. In PoFV, It's just Lily White wearing black outfit.
ZUN said this in a livestream. :(
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There's no such thing as Lily Black. In PoFV, It's just Lily White wearing black outfit.
ZUN said this in a livestream. :(
That would explain why she isn't there in the Extra stage of GFW. Cause you can't fight two Lilies at once. :derp:
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I recently just noticed that in MS Stage 3, right before/during the midboss fight, there's a sign to the right that says "Children!"
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I recently just noticed that in MS Stage 3, right before/during the midboss fight, there's a sign to the right that says "Children!"
And before that, there's one that says "Romantic"
I've just noticed that bomb animations in PoDD get reversed when they're used by the player on the right. This leads to the numerals on Yumemi and Chiyuri's clocks making no sense. Of course, I'd noticed this a long time ago with Kotohime's bomb, but it somehow never occurred to me that it was true for everyone else.
Another thing, for certain enemy waves, some of enemies are often missing if the wave is the first one to appear in the match. And there's about fifty other glitches I think I'm starting to figure out. I'm pretty sure I cancelled out my own boss attack by using a spell at the same time.
This game, man. I just don't know. :V
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Learned today: you can move diagonally with the 1/3/7/9 on the numpad. If you're crazy and want to do that for some reason.
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Learned today: you can move diagonally with the 1/3/7/9 on the numpad. If you're crazy and want to do that for some reason.
Wait a second... you can do that?! Which games?
Oh yeah, and Replay mode in TD: Hold down Z (I think it's Z) and everything will speed up similar to Boss Mode in PCB and IN, but it speeds up EVERYTHING!
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I just figured out why Youmu is so rabidly attached to Yuyuko and it's not because she's a samurai.
It's because since she's a half-ghost her loyalty is literally undying. BV
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Learned today: you can move diagonally with the 1/3/7/9 on the numpad. If you're crazy and want to do that for some reason.
Wait a second... you can do that?! Which games?
All games, including SoEW.
Oh yeah, and Replay mode in TD: Hold down Z (I think it's Z) and everything will speed up similar to Boss Mode in PCB and IN, but it speeds up EVERYTHING!
Available since ESOD. The hotkey has always been CTRL. The only thing TD changed is now both CTRL and Z can be used to speed up replays.
Trivia 1: StB is the only game where you cannot speed up replay. ZUN must have thought it's unnecessary. He fixed that in DS.
Trivia 2: Starting with MoF, you can even speed up the demo replays with Ctrl (but not Z)!
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Learned today: you can move diagonally with the 1/3/7/9 on the numpad. If you're crazy and want to do that for some reason.
Why would you even....-goes to try it-
Well I'll be damned.
I guess, just in cased you don't want to bomb or focus?
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Available since ESOD. The hotkey has always been CTRL. The only thing TD changed is now both CTRL and Z can be used to speed up replays.
Trivia 1: StB is the only game where you cannot speed up replay. ZUN must have thought it's unnecessary. He fixed that in DS.
Trivia 2: Starting with MoF, you can even speed up the demo replays with Ctrl (but not Z)!
Actually, the feature to speed up replays at any time was only introduced in MoF. In previous games, this feature was only available as an add-on by the vsync patch. This also means that your next piece of trivia is wrong: there is no in-built feature to change the playback speed of a replay in EoSD.
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And that's what happens when you rely on VPatch for too long: you forgot many conveniences are only there because of VPatch. I can remember being frustrated over ESoD and PoFV's lack of replay skipping, but only barely.
It's still unfortunate VPatch never implemented replay skipping for StB.
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I didn't realize that Sakuya A can quickly decrease the boss's health on PCB. ???
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Just realized this, blew my mind, needed to share right the heck now.
So in the Touhou PV of Kachou Fuugetsu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl7wSrfYfEA), when the chorus starts we see Lady Yukari, Lady Yuyuko, the goddess Kanako, and Lady Eirin. Now at first I didn't think much of it right? Until sometime after I did a little research.
Kachou Fuugetsu is a Japanese Idiom that means "Experience the beauties of nature, and in doing so learn about yourself" ...more or less, and is made of the Kanji that mean Flowers (Ka), Birds (Chou), Wind (Fuu), Moon (Getsu).
You can see where I'm heading with this right? Well, lemme finish off then.
It turns out that each of those four Elder Residents of Gensokyo are related to the idiom, and plus, their appearance is timed to each kanji.
Ka: Lady Yukari -> One way to read "Yukari" is "Violet", there happens to be a species of flower called Violets, plus she is also close friends with Lady Yuyuko...see below.
Chou: Lady Yuyuko -> Now, this one is a bit of a stretch, but it's the only explanation that makes sense here. The kanji happens to be a homonym for "Butterfly", and not only does she have a HEAVY amount of butterfly motifs related with her, but the insects are traditionally related to death itself, plus her close relationship with Lady Yukari brings to mind the close relationship between flowers and butterflies.
Fuu: Goddess Kanako -> The Wind Goddess.
Getsu: Lady Eirin -> Descended from the Moon.
That's not all though, towards the end of the PV, the idiom is sung once more, this time to the images of Marisa, Reimu, Sanae, and Sakuya in that order, with the same pacing. Other than Sanae and Sakuya, whose associations are clear, even if Sakuya's was implied rather than stated outright, I'm not sure about Reimu or Marisa. Still trying to do research on that, but nothing's turning up.
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Seriously. I wish I had a t-shirt that said 'Mima's Coffee' or something similar.
(http://i.imgur.com/zczG3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/57V6t.jpg)
<Tengukami>1. Don't hotlink, least of all to the wrong Touhou wiki.
2. Moving this to the proper thread.
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The best part of waking uuuuuup
is Twilight Spark in your cup~!
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In MS, I just noticed that Luize doesn't seem to be wearing any shoes during her battle. (I better check the other bosses as well.)
Shoes were scarce in Gensokyo back in those days - most of the girls were forced to wear slippers.
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The profile for Toyosatomimi no Miko in th13 and the SoPM article for Miko blatantly contradicts each other.
One says that she was born in a stable, while the other quotes Miko saying that there's no way she was born in such a place.
Suika's th075 conversation BGM 'Broken Moon' is referenced in BAiJP article for Suika.
The Kanji used for broken(砕) is the same. Although it sounds like Suika put the moon in the blender or something.
Reimu's final spellcard in Suika's story 空を飛ぶ不思議な巫女(Flying Mysterious Shrine Maiden) is very likely a reference to
Dolls in Pseudo Paradise's last track 空飛ぶ巫女の不思議な毎日(The Strange Everyday Life of the Flying Shrine Maiden)
Keine's Last Word in th08 日出ずる国の天子(Tenshi Emperor of the Land of the Rising Sun) and
Miko's Second Spellcard in th13 日出ずる処の道士(Taoist of the Land of the Rising Sun)
both likely reference the letter that Prince Shotoku sent to China back then.
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The final chapter of OSP is also called 空を飛ぶ不思議な巫女.
In this chapter, Reimu also called herself "Shrine Maiden of Paradise". It's rare for any character titles to be spoken of in actual dialogue.