New Touhou Wiki!

[Agent of the BSoD]

They (she) removed the link on the old wiki again. :V Though people should know about the new one by now.
Also, can't wait for the new home page look!

[Ghaleon]

Just thought I'd point out that the new wiki works on my iphone 100%, and the old one does not...

[Kirin no Sora]

...man, have I lived under a rock. I've never seen a Wiki war before...

That said, I'm glad that everyone is so quick and able in dealing with such irritating problems. The Touhou fanbase is truly a force to be reckoned with(Considering that said fanbase is also the lifeblood of Gensokyo itself, I am not at all surprised...).

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

... ahahahaha. Wikia has now marked http://en.touhouwiki.net/ as "blocked in the spamfilter." CLASSY.

[Conqueror]

Hmm, while this topic is here I might as well give an update. A new administration has taken control over the old wiki (read: a cohort of several users who all created accounts on Touhou Wikia this month) as of Jan. 24.

VS3025 - Admin and Bureaucrat
Imanie - Admin

[helvetica]

... ahahahaha. Wikia has now marked http://en.touhouwiki.net/ as "blocked in the spamfilter." CLASSY.

I dunno, there's assholes on both sides right now and frankly it's really petty and shameful for the WTC as a whole seeing people act like this.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Ahh. Well, I haven't been really paying that much attention to it either way. But still.

[helvetica]

Yeah it's a mess now.  Honestly the best thing should have been to just divorce and move on, not this stupid edit/spam war that keeps on going on.  Yeah it sucks Wikia won't close it but who cares, just build the legit one up and let the old one fall apart from lack of updates.  Now you've got people riled up into sides and this is going to drag on forever.

[Kilgamayan]

It's a mess now? It's been a mess the whole time. It's been like 90% of the WTC has no concept of business whatsoever. >_>

[helvetica]

It's a mess now? It's been a mess the whole time. It's been like 90% of the WTC has no concept of business whatsoever. >_>

I meant the Wikia move ordeal.  I understand the desire to move, hell I was against the forced takeover/move to Wikia in the first place.

Other communities moved gracefully from Wikia, a big example being NetHackWiki.  They searched for anyone linking to the Wikia pages and kindly asked to edit to point to the new address.  They even asked if we wanted our NetHack server listed.

But nope, gotta resort to vandalism and spamming new user registrations and otherwise being absolutely hostile to the Wikia staff.  Not saying what Wikia is doing is totally right, but neither is what the WTC is doing.

[Kilgamayan]

That's what I meant, yeah. Watching how our end has acted through the whole ordeal left me shaking my head.

[Momiji]

I'd say the vandalism was solely the responsibility of 2 people.  The rest of us, while we disliked the whole situation with Wikia, were mostly intent on focusing our work on the new wiki and not acting like idiots.  I even ranted about what they were doing on Poosh, how the whole thing was stupid and against our progress (and not even with Google ranking) but it didn't seem to matter.  At this point I don't give a shit, if people want to go back to Wikia and make our work for naught, have at it.  Don't come back to us when they've stopped paying for your words and work (with money, empty promises, the crappy Oasis theme and it's ads, whatever).  In the mean time, we'll keep on keepin' on with what we have, but the drama and bullshit is quite demotivating.

[Helepolis]

The discussion page indeed marks two people causing the vandalism. Shame indeed, as the move was already wide spread and there was no need for such idiotic actions.

[Conqueror]

I'd say the vandalism was solely the responsibility of 2 people.

The discussion page indeed marks two people causing the vandalism.

I'm interested where you people are finding "two people" causing the vandalism when the vandalism was caused by an unknown number of people acting under proxy IPs and newly created vandal accounts. What I see on the discussion page is a lot of people dumping their verbal vomit in heated and sometimes silly discussion, but for the most part none of the users on that page (both on the Wikia side and the anti-Wikia side) were a large part of the massive link-spamming vandalism contest that occurred on the wiki (most of which happened about a month ago). The people who actually did the vandalism aren't talking, don't care that they were banned, and are probably laughing at the rest of us right now. So the "2 people" count just completely boggles me.


Edit: I am certainly not defending the vandalism. I'm just wondering where you get your numbers from, and how you figure those people were responsible for all the shit that went on.

Edit edit: If you were talking about the "Specific Vandals" section on the talk page, that's just a dinky little section that was whipped up in the past few days and is nowhere near a comprehensive list. I don't think you're talking about this though...

[Dory]

I think I gotta say something here, mostly apology.

I am one of the guy who spammed the old Wiki with links, under the username jimreynold2nd. At first I did that with the simple thought that "the pages are still showing up atop google searches; I gotta redirect new people searching for info to the new wiki.". Then, everytime I search for something Touhou on Google, and found top hit under wikia, I replace the page with the touhouwiki.net link, again, without thinking much except for that I needa redirect new googles.

Then I got busy for about a week. When I came back, I saw that the pages I editted were reverted, the notice on the home page is gone, and I got banned. Then the rage begins...

Well, enough rants. I hope everything would finally turn out well. I'm still very worried about google page rank. As of right now, searching for, say,  "Yuugi" still gives the wikia link on top and touhouwiki.net link not on the first, not even on the second page.

Edit: How come the forum doesn't recognize my OS as "SuSE" anymore? >.<

[Helepolis]

I didn't figure out anything. That is what is said on the discussion page of wikia. No idea if is true or false. I just note what I read, probably most likely though. Anyway, two people or a group is not the point. The point is, it was unnecessary. Period.

Edit:
Links could be spammed by just leaving the page intact. Some people didn't even do that. Also, many google searches still point to wikia. Even my own nickname does. You need to give it time and less F5 the wikia or access it.

[Conqueror]

The point is, it was unnecessary. Period.

I agree that the link spamming was unnecessary, as there are more effective ways of promoting the new Wiki. I just want don't want blame put on the wrong people.

Also, I'd like to note that Wikia's pagerank isn't going down or up anytime soon (it's a huge site, remember), and there's not much we can do to change that. However, we can increase the pagerank of the new wiki and increase the exposure of the new wiki by creating content the old one doesn't have. The old wiki is actually going through a bit of a content redesign (read: copyright compliance) right now, which means more exclusive content for the new wiki.

Edit:

I think I gotta say something here, mostly apology.

I am one of the guy who spammed the old Wiki with links, under the username jimreynold2nd. At first I did that with the simple thought that "the pages are still showing up atop google searches; I gotta redirect new people searching for info to the new wiki.". Then, everytime I search for something Touhou on Google, and found top hit under wikia, I replace the page with the touhouwiki.net link, again, without thinking much except for that I needa redirect new googles.

Then I got busy for about a week. When I came back, I saw that the pages I editted were reverted, the notice on the home page is gone, and I got banned. Then the rage begins...

Well, enough rants. I hope everything would finally turn out well. I'm still very worried about google page rank. As of right now, searching for, say,  "Yuugi" still gives the wikia link on top and touhouwiki.net link not on the first, not even on the second page.

Edit: How come the forum doesn't recognize my OS as "SuSE" anymore? >.<

I appreciate your concern about people finding the new wiki,and I share those same concerns, and yet only a few hours ago someone created a new user named Jimreynold3rd and added more of the same link vandalism that we've been seeing to the Yuugi, Cirno, and Yuyuko pages. And then the user got immediately blocked for his trouble and the vandalism immediately reverted. Seriously, is it even worth it? it's not even worth the trouble. The new admins will just ban and mass revert any link spammers. What's worse, that new white knight of a crat will become insufferable because his actions are, in a perverted way, completely justified. Like I said before, there are better ways to promote the new wiki, such as making sure people coming from other sites find the right wiki.

Edit edit: Also, the effort that people put into vandalizing the old wiki could be put to more productive use on the new wiki. There are a hell of a lot of menial workhorse tasks that could be done.

[Dory]

...and yet only a few hours ago someone created a new user named Jimreynold3rd and added more of the same link vandalism that we've been seeing to the Yuugi, Cirno, and Yuyuko pages.

Wait what?! (Just to be sure you understand) that was totally not me. Anyway, I never really looked at the discussion pages (looking at them right now). Will try what I can do.

[Conqueror]

Wait what?! (Just to be sure you understand) that was totally not me. Anyway, I never really looked at the discussion pages (looking at them right now). Will try what I can do.

Ah, okay. Probably just some troll who lurks shrinemaiden then. In any case, there's not much productive editing to be done on Wikia, so don't waste your time there unless you really want to take part in a redesign that ultimately is property of Wikia (some of the new templates they are designing are fantastically painful for the eyes, and I'm interested to see if they actually implement them...).


You could always go here though, this place is much more lively and fun.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Touhou_Wiki

[Helepolis]

I I just linked on my wikia profile the link to the en.wiki. That is it. I stopped contributing and visiting (Except for the discussion page).

[helvetica]

You do realize that editing Wikia pages is counterproductive.  Every time you edit it it rebumps it in Google searches as an active page.  The best way for the Wikia wiki is to just stop editing it and it'll fall off.  It'll also have the effect of driving people away as it'll slowly get more and more out of date and irrelevant.

[Conqueror]

You do realize that editing Wikia pages is counterproductive.  Every time you edit it it rebumps it in Google searches as an active page.  The best way for the Wikia wiki is to just stop editing it and it'll fall off.  It'll also have the effect of driving people away as it'll slowly get more and more out of date and irrelevant.

As far as I can tell, there's no one currently editing the Wikia pages (minus the main discussion page) except for the new admins. So hopefully things will continue to die down.

[Ehli]

Well, I have something to say about this topic. In all honesty, no one from the Wikia side has any real bad blood with the New Touhou wiki.

It mostly got so bad because there was so much vandalism. In all actuality, we were going to link the new touhou wiki in the community bar, along with a ton of other Touhou related community sites.

In all honesty, no one actually thought this one would 'compete' with the other one after a while. I decided to work on the Wikia wiki mostly because I don't have a problem with Oasis or Wikia. I mostly started editing pages because I don't like vandalism or vandals, too much. It's a waste of space and is a horrible way to show people about a new topic.

I also like working on topics I'm interested in, regardless of who knows more, or what not. It's just fun for me.

When things get cleaned up and put together, I was hoping that the two wikis could be more friendly towards each other, especially since the one at Wikia is trying to change to accomodate the move.

I don't expect many people to believe me (after what I've seen at Wikia  ) or treat me nicely, buy I was hoping someone here could understand.

Me helping out the wiki wasn't about competition or being the better wiki, I just like spreading the news about a topic I like :p however new I am at it. I just want to have fun.

However, I do thank whoever didn't vandalise the old wiki and I want to continue to thank those people, because it shows some character.

[Momiji]

Well, I have something to say about this topic. In all honesty, no one from the Wikia side has any real bad blood with the New Touhou wiki.

It mostly got so bad because there was so much vandalism. In all actuality, we were going to link the new touhou wiki in the community bar, along with a ton of other Touhou related community sites.

In all honesty, no one actually thought this one would 'compete' with the other one after a while. I decided to work on the Wikia wiki mostly because I don't have a problem with Oasis or Wikia. I mostly started editing pages because I don't like vandalism or vandals, too much. It's a waste of space and is a horrible way to show people about a new topic/

I also like working on topics I'm interested in, regardless of who knows more, or what not. It's just fun for me.

When things get cleaned up and put together, I was hoping that the two wikis could be more friendly towards each other, especially since the one at Wikia is trying to change to accomodate the move.

I don't expect many people to believe me (after what I've seen at Wikia  ) or treat me nicely, buy I was hoping someone here could understand.

Me helping out the wiki wasn't about competition or being the better wiki, I just like spreading the news about a topic I like :p however new I am at it. I just want to have fun.

However, I do thank whoever didn't vandalise the old wiki and I want to continue to thank those people, because it shows some character.

I appreciate your friendly tone, but I think you're completely ignorant to what's been going on the last couple months.  That wiki shouldn't even exist anymore, if it wasn't for Wikia's desire to keep it around to make money.  Just the fact that you're even there doing stuff means you're competing with us.  You see, they try to confuse people's idea who the "real" wiki is, so they gain viewers.  Maybe someone will be suckered into updating some of the pages.  In the mean time, those same people are working to regain that wiki's Google ranking, bringing more people in to view their ads.  That's all it's really about, they don't care about the content or users at all, it's their ability to give good returns on their VC's investments.

We were so damn careful to make the move as smooth as possible so we didn't leave anyone behind.  But I guess it really didn't matter in the end.  Thanks for making my work meaningless.

Just be advised, I don't think you're going to be welcome pretty much anywhere within the western Touhou community.

[Ehli]

I appreciate your friendly tone, but I think you're completely ignorant to what's been going on the last couple months.  That wiki shouldn't even exist anymore, if it wasn't for Wikia's desire to keep it around to make money.  Just the fact that you're even there doing stuff means you're competing with us.  You see, they try to confuse people's idea who the "real" wiki is, so they gain viewers.  Maybe someone will be suckered into updating some of the pages.  In the mean time, those same people are working to regain that wiki's Google ranking, bringing more people in to view their ads.  That's all it's really about, they don't care about the content or users at all, it's their ability to give good returns on their VC's investments.

We were so damn careful to make the move as smooth as possible so we didn't leave anyone behind.  But I guess it really didn't matter in the end.  Thanks for making my work meaningless.

Just be advised, I don't think you're going to be welcome pretty much anywhere within the western Touhou community.

Well, see, I thought people made wikis for the content they liked, not as some agenda to go against someone else or to become more popular or hurt people and shut others down. I actually came here as a way of being nice.

If Wikia isn't going to delete it, I don't see the reason why it should sit there as vandalised trash so anyone new who does go to the site is turned off from the topic by the content. But from what I'm getting, this isn't about bringing more people to Touhou or doing something to show people that Touhou is a fun game, which is really the only reason why the older wiki is still up.

If I'm not welcome into a community because I chose to show people a game and topic I'm interested in and want other people to know about it (for a community who is supposedly open for that exact reason), then what is it for?

I was actually being honest about linking the new wiki up on older one. Other wikis have done it and worked together and have done fine. But that's not really what this is about. It's not really about the whole Touhou topic either. It seems to be more about pride. Well, Que Sera, Sera. Goodluck, but I don't think you'll need it.

[Momiji]

Well, see, I thought people made wikis for the content they liked, not as some agenda to go against someone else or to become more popular or hurt people and shut others down. I actually came here as a way of being nice.

We have that, we just move it to it's own server.  =]

If I'm not welcome into a community because I chose to show people a game and topic I'm interested in and want other people to know about it (for a community who is supposedly open for that exact reason), then what is it for?

You're definitely welcome in the community as a helpful member, but you do have to understand the situation with Wikia.  Really, had they just let us leave without an issue it would've all been okay.  But it didn't turn out that way.

Like TSO said earlier:

You do realize that editing Wikia pages is counterproductive.  Every time you edit it it rebumps it in Google searches as an active page.  The best way for the Wikia wiki is to just stop editing it and it'll fall off.  It'll also have the effect of driving people away as it'll slowly get more and more out of date and irrelevant.

Here's essentially what Wikia did.  Say you're looking to set up your own website.  You get contacted by some free webhost like Geocities/Tripod/etc., offering to host your site (possibly even paying you something to join).  Later on you decide you've outgrown your service, so you purchase own webhosting account elsewhere and move the site there,.  In response,  Geocities/Tripod/etc. takes over your old site for themselves as they deem it important to their ad revenue.  Wikia has a clause about this in their TOS, except since they've been doing all of these very unpopular changes to all the wikis, they've enforced it across pretty much every wiki that's left.  And they can legally do that because the wiki content itself is licensed under the Creative Commons.  So that's why there's a zombie Touhou wiki still up on Wikia, they've taken it over after we moved to our own self-hosting setup, and have refused to close it down.

It really sucks, but you ended up in the middle of the confusion and drama over the zombie wiki.  I definitely don't want any bad blood between anyone in the community, and I hope you do stick around and possibly help with the new wiki.  =]

[Dory]

a bunch of useful and accurate stuffs

I like you 

[Mimachiro]

Wow, didn't think the move caused that much of a mess. I was glad when it happened, though; the new Wikia themes detract too much from the content. All my edits are going to be for the new wiki, only. The new Wiki will probably take off once ZUN releases another official game. Making sure it's information ends up on the new wiki first will get some attention for sure.

[Kiefmaster99]

The demo of a new game would be sufficient.

Winter Comiket did pass after the move so there was at least a large doujin update.

[Momiji]

I like you 

Eheee ^.^;;

All my edits are going to be for the new wiki, only.

Awesome, thanks a bunch for the help.  Most (if not all) of the western Touhou sites have updated their links already, and we've just surpassed the Touhou articles on Wikipedia in Google searches.  So we're already pretty much on track for #1, but yeah, a big Touhou event will definitely help.  In the interrim, I could use some help from a good web/graphics designer...