Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER

[Serela]

If you flipped Zombie Biologist, it's not impossible. But I haven't looked at all into who might be your scum partner in that case.

At this point, what I see is a capt.h/huhwhat scumteam or a Edible/? scumteam, with likely being Zakeri if you do not flip Zombie Biologist, which I don't think you will.

I cannot decide on which one I want to lynch for more then a couple of hours without changing my mind. This is something I tend to do very often in mafia. It's just how my brain works. At least in Subterranean Animisim I was waffling between two people who were both scum.

I don't think the game will end tonight, so if we lynch the wrong one today, we should get the right one tomorrrow. Yes, I would like to hit the right one TODAY. No, I can't decide which one is right. I can't even remember my points from when I made my case on you. Holy crap it's 11 pm why am I not in bed I have to wake up at 6 tomorrow for school shit.

[capt. h]

Yes, it's way more setup playing then should probably be in a mafia game. But if it's there to be used, and seems reliable enough, it should be used. Ignoring it would be detrimal to likelihoods of winning, from an uninformed-on-setup-intricities player standpoint.

You're right. There is way more setup playing then there should ever be in mafia.

Edible has the claimed ability to cop 5 people at once, and determine whether 2 or more are zombies, or 1 or less are town. His cop ability changed the entire dynamic of the game.

Let's compare it to the other cop roles in the game.

Zak claims the ability to cop a players flavor, while not knowing their alignment. He can only identify whether a role lied or not, and it wasn't useful for determining alliance.

K4U had the ability to cop a player, but only every other night. This came with a vig if she wanted to sacrifice the ability to cop.

Conq. had the ability to determine a player's alliance, but it came at the cost of his life.

Edible has the ability to determine whether there are two or more zombies in a group of five, and can do so every single night.

Edible is the reason why the game is so much setup.

In addition, have you noticed how weak his opinions are? This is the strongest attack he had on any player, and the primary reason for his votes yesterday:

-Kilga avoided discussion of Hourai like the plague yesterday, referring to him only in passing or when someone else mentioned him.  This is less of a scumtell than I'd like it to be given the potential nature of Hourai's traitor role, but it is still rather worrisome especially considering his stances on Conq/Serela/Shadoweh.

-Bardiche placed the tying vote on Hourai to tie him with Serela yesterday, which gives him more credibility in my eyes.  He was on huh what earlier in the day but I wasn't getting good vibes from huh what myself during the earlier parts of my readthrough.

-Schezo is outright bad.  "I think Shadoweh is scum! *votes*"  "I think Serela is scum! *votes*" (later on, with hourai leading) "I thought hourai was scum the entire time! *votes*"

My preferred course of action today would be to shoot Kilga and hang Schezo.

His post quality makes Zak look good, in spite of Zak having not said a word for a hundred hours. Most his arguments against Kilga aren't even arguements:

First argument:

huh

Why Bard/Schezo over Kilga?

Second argument:

Gut tells me Kilga needs to die.

Logic tells me Schezo does.

Both tell me huh what doesn't.

Neither tell me much about Bardiche at all.

Finally, I think there's a better chance of Shadoweh being a third party than town, but as long as she's acting in our interests I see no reason to do whatever it is we do to potential zombies.  Dayvigs are easily verifiable and can be influenced by town as essentially a second lynch with no night phase, should the shooter play along.

I usually go with my gut over my logic, so I would pick Kilga for the bullet.

Further thoughts will have to wait given I should have gone to bed two hours ago.

Third argument was above, but forth argument:

Additionally, I'm worried that Kilga is pushing the "traitor = unknown to scum" thing as hard as he is.  Upon further consideration, it seems obvious that Traitor Mad Scientist is <Alignment> <Role Name>, not <Role Name> <Role Name>.  Hourai was a scum team member and therefore other scum knew who he was; I see no reason to doubt this anymore.  This further brightens my opinions of huh what and Bardiche.

Fifth:

Grumble grumble weekends grumble.  I won't be able to type up a more formative response until early-ish tomorrow afternoon, but I'd still prefer a Kilga lynch given previous discussions, or a Bard lynch because Shadoweh flipped town and it's incredibly hard to believe that there are three town vig roles.  It is extremely likely he is, if not scum, then at least third-party.  Huh what is not much of a priority for me ATM.

##vote Kilgamayan

He posts huge quantity, but he's the least useful player in the game, and his arguments against Kilga consisted entirely of one liners and tunneling. The only thing separating him from lurk scum is the way his role flipped the game on its head.

Here is his post history: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=19;area=showposts;start=0. For the entire time he has been here he has done nothing but implicate intelligent players making them turn on themselves, and saying less than Dormio while appearing to be more active than Dormio.

[PX]

Clearly he has the help of a quicktopic, as his posts are wildly changing. Not to mention he's coming up with stuff about UK's role (Not K4U). Seriously, compared to how he's been the entire game, I cannot possibly see how he came up with this on his own.

[Edible]

Ahaha, you're seriously trying to deconstruct my Kilga case?

Fine, here's yours for comparison.

I paid the most attention to Schezo, so I got his radio when he died. I'm not sure about NKs.

##unvote

##vote Kilgamayan

... wtf

Last I checked, your case was on HW.  What gives?

I believed his roleclaim.

Nice "case", guy.

[Edible]

EBWOP:

What a coincidence!  You didn't even list all of my notes on Kilga!

And this puts me in a bit of a bind.  My main issue with Kilga is that he mostly avoided interactions with Hourai and Schezo (and vice versa), which is usually a pretty big scum indicator.  I'm not a huge fan of the huh what case, but I suppose it is significant that both Kilga and Bard are the major outliers of it.  That leaves me with Bardiche, who I would think is, if not town, then at least likely unaffiliated with the scumteam.  Probably the safest lynch, but the least likely of actually hitting scum.  That combined with the fact that Kilga would rather himself be lynched than Bard doesn't help me either.

I'd be very upset if Kilga was a miller or something, but I guess he would've told us already.

Seriously, you need to step back and think about what you're saying before saying it.

[capt. h]

EBWOP:

What a coincidence!  You didn't even list all of my notes on Kilga!

Seriously, you need to step back and think about what you're saying before saying it.

I like how PX rushed in here to say that I must be scum, since there's no way I could come up with this on my own.

Tell me, is he your buddy? It's rare for someone's strongest argument to be that there is no way I could come up with this on my own.

I apologize, Zak and Dormio.

[PX]

And if I recall, that was your exact reasoning of why you voted me.

[capt. h]

You know, as I recall both you and Edible commented on how the radios prove nothing. Edible argued that scum could pass the radio and still perform a night kill, and you made that "when the seagulls cry" presentation. It was very amusing. And I thank you. If you had just kept your mouth shut, I wouldn't have even guessed you were Edible's scum buddy. I would have figured it had to be Dormio or Zak, and we may have lost.

This is my first game, and I'm a quick learner. My day one was incrediderp. My day 2 was derp. My early day 3 was pretty bad. And then I realized - why are we arguing about Edible's ability? Why don't we just look at Edible? I did the same thing I did to zak and Dormio, accusing them on the grounds of lack of content, and realized Edible was even worse then them when we wasn't giving us names.

[Edible]

Yes, because commenting on how your quicklynch plan was flawed is definitely anti-town. O_o

[capt. h]

You know, your role claim really helped PX back on day 2, when I accused him of not writing his own posts.

post 519:

Dormio: This is the Apocalypse, true heros aren't afraid to die if they take the zombies with them. I believed Conqueror's roleclaim despite how crazy it sounded because it fit with mine. Don't worry, I'm not going to surprise shoot without saying who I want to eat lead.

huh what: I would count a wording mistake like that as a point against the person even if it's not the be-all and end all. The way capt.h presents his argument seems to be consistent with yesterday.

capt.h: That's a good start, but look for other inconsistencies in PX's posts if you want to take it further. It's not damning evidence on its own.

post 523:

I'm more or less done with my reread.  In the meantime, have some info.

Hi kids!  I'm Edible and I have a very silly role.

I'm a biologist and had enough of my equipment left to perform one blood sample test.  Sadly, my equipment was somewhat fruity, and I could only test folks en masse.  Even more sadly, a certain rabbit used my ability for me last night.

Er, did I say sadly?  I meant "thankfully," because I got a positive result.  Hooray!

Five names were given:

huh what, Bardiche, Shadoweh, Kilgamayan, Schezo

Of the above, at least two are zombies. 

That is all the information I have, but I feel it is important enough to share.

That was a convenient little coincidence.

[Edible]

My roleclaim also "helped", uh, every player I didn't name in that list, for that day.

[capt. h]

My roleclaim also "helped", uh, every player I didn't name in that list, for that day.

Some players more than others:

Post 502:

I don't particularly doubt your claim since it lines up with what I know, but your list doesn't actually say who you currently think is scummiest/the best target. More opinions, please. That said, I would obviously prefer a vig on Colt, or alternately PX or Zak.

What do you think of Colt, anyway? He was pretty much a worse PX on D1, and considering how much you seem to hate PX, some comments on him would be appreciated.

Post 518:

Screw the lecture.
Anyway, my case on PX from D1 still applies.
PX has said pretty much nothing so far today.
Over the entire game this post is the only real case he has made.

Shadoweh: My opinion on Shadoweh has changed since the roleclaim, since it seems like it would be a pretty silly claim to make if she was scum.
What's with people and their suicidal roles though?

Argh, battery is starting to run low.
~3 hours until I get home.

By the way, it was wise clearing Zak and Dormio with PX. They both look inherently scummier than PX does.

[Edible]

... What?

[Edible]

EBWOP:

Look, I'm gonna say this again as an aside with a little more detail.

If you're town, you're doing a piss-poor job of scumhunting; what you're doing is basically stringing nonsensical information together in your head and laying it out without explaining it, if it even made sense to begin with.  All that does is reap unnecessary confusion amongst other townies.

If you're scum, well, the above also applies and you probably shouldn't do it because it makes you look, uh... scummy.

[capt. h]

Alright, I'll tie PX and you together then.

Both you and PX presented arguments that using the radios to clear townies was a flawed method in spite of never having owned the radios.

When the arguments started piling on in favor of vigging PX day 2 and several players voiced him as their top pick, you turned the game around by revealing your role.

And PX just attacked me for attacking you too well.

Therefore, I think there's a good chance you two are scum buddies.

[Edible]

Both you and PX presented arguments that using the radios to clear townies was a flawed method in spite of never having owned the radios.

Quick, prove that if you send a radio at night, you can't do anything else.

Wait, you can't?  And the only people alive who've touched the radios are you three, who huh what claimed were both town in his first post on day 2?

Well I'll be darned.

When the arguments started piling on in favor of vigging PX day 2 and several players voiced him as their top pick, you turned the game around by revealing your role.

"Piling on" implies more than one; "several" implies more than one.  huh what, per your previous quote, preferred shooting Colt over PX (or Zak).  Caedo mentioned he had a case on him, but didn't mention shooting; it seems more people were making fun of you for thinking PX was scum based off the fact that he referred to himself in third-person once.

And PX just attacked me for attacking you too well.

Pretty sure PX's been attacking you all day.

[PX]

Don't forget day 1.

[Edible]

Don't forget day 1.

I forget a lot of things about D1, given I wasn't there for it.  What specifically are you referring to?

[PX]

Oh, just disproving that my vote and jump on him was entire unwarranted. Since he was my first serious vote.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I like how I can leave a tab open for around 5 hours and not be cut.

Anyway.
Ugh, the stuff since my last post is so confusing to go through.
At this point I am hopelessly lost.
Let's see if this next re-read helps.

huh what has basically been pushed out of our minds for now with the "deal with it later" thing going on.

I still want to see huh what flip. :/
But apparently that isn't happening.

Instead let's look at Edible and capt. h some more.

Firstly, Edible.
Uh, as far as I can tell, Edible has done very little to no scum hunting this game.
Instead he decided to base most of his arguments on his ridiculous-if-true role.
Also, as said before, infinite masscop is lolwut.

capt. h.
Well, D1 and D2 were spent derping as far as I recall, and D3 up until now was spent yelling about radios.
Now he's on the whole "Edible is scum" thing, forgetting about earlier claims that huh what was a zombie.

Let's throw in PX for some kicks.
PX has spent the entire game doing... nothing.
His only contribution seems to be arguing against capt. h alongside Edible today.

Also, PX and Zakeri had their avatars changed. :V

Uh, 11pm and it's been a long 2 weeks and I can't think.
Hopefully things will be better when I look at this again after some DotS sleep.

[Edible]

Possible scumpairs are capt.h+huh what, Serela+huh what, or capt.h+Serela.  The thing that bothers me is all three have been tied together so well for a variety of reasons that it's kinda hard to narrow down who I want dead the most.  I wonder if it really is possible that we have three scum.

[Serela]

Now that I've thought about it again... k.

Knowing that I am town (which most people seem to agree I'm obvtown), either huhwhat/capt.h HAVE to be scum or Edible is lying and therefore most likely scum. We have been over this a ton.

I have revised my opinion of what I want Bard to do tonight, because my previous statement is just so blaringly obvious at this point.

I want to lynch capt.h, and if he's scum, we'll duh lynch huhwhat D4 so Bard doesn't need to kill and his kill ability has some bad effect if he overuses anyway (like maybe turning him into a zombee or serial killer idk ), so. _{If huhwhat successfully passes the radio and there is still an NK, I'm going to stare at the game and stare and stare and wonder if it's capt.h/edible scumteam or wtf. And hope I don't get lynched.}

If capt.h flips town, then I want Bard to just kill Edible no matter what, since we would still have to get his partner afterwards.

Bard, I want you to vote Edible since you say you must vote someone to be able to kill them. Dormio, please don't block Bard.

##Unvote ##Vote Capt.h

any objections with my latest ramblings  `-`

[Serela]

Bard, I want you to vote Edible since you say you must vote someone to be able to kill them.

and as long as it allows you to kill him overnight if needed then I don't care if you unvote him or anything, or if you vote capt.h afterwards to put him at L-1, or whatever

[Bardiche]

If it is the consent of everyone present, I will vote Edible to enable my kill on him.

[capt. h]

Quick, prove that if you send a radio at night, you can't do anything else.

Wait, you can't?  And the only people alive who've touched the radios are you three, who huh what claimed were both town in his first post on day 2?

Well I'll be darned.

I'm a little insulted. One of us is town. Town knows how the radio works, and town could correct me at any point if I were lying.

Neo, I think we should kill Edible first, if only because we don't know who Edible's scum partner would be. And if it's Dormio, then we might have a problem, because he's the only player that can stop or control scum kills.

But I agree with the main premise; if Edible flips town, then I don't mind having Bard kill me no matter what. I've already bet the game on Edible being scum, and either way, if neither of us is scum town loses.

[capt. h]

Although, on second thought I really do want out of this game. In fact, I'd like to not have to worry about it over the weekend, so if we could do this plan tonight that would be great.

[PX]

Although, on second thought I really do want out of this game. In fact, I'd like to not have to worry about it over the weekend, so if we could do this plan tonight that would be great.

Then go vote yourself please.

[capt. h]

Oh, and one last thing - If we do thins plan tonight, either Neo or Huh What are going to be the night kill, so they should really consider going back through the posts of PX, Dormio, and Zak and seeing which one was most indirectly benefitted by Edible's role declaration, who made sure that his role was believed and attacked people that attacked Edible; the typical scum help scum stuff.

Edible and Schezo both went with Hourai being known scum, so there a good chance the third scum will to. Personally, PX gave me some bad impressions just a while ago, and he can thank not being vigged by Shadoweh to Edible. They seems to have a lot of the same views and get along unusually well; better than any two other players I can think of. They also shared quite a bit of small talk; useless posts for the sake of filling the thread up and appearing active.

At the moment, my top scum buddy for Edible is PX. For one of you two, there won't be second chance to speak. Since I need to stop thinking about this game altogether, I don't mind a lost opportunity to look for clues, but you two might.

@PX - Am I at L-1 yet?

[Serela]

Well, no, you're at L-2 at the moment.

I'd like to have Bard vote Edible to be able to kill him before you die, though. Hey people, he asked if it's okay with us for him to do that, so tell himmmmmm

[capt. h]

EBWOP - Also, I'd like for all of you to be done whatever preparations you plan to make by 3:30 a.m. thread time - that's about 11:30 where I live. Once I have confirmation that Dormio has blocked Edible instead of Bard, and Bard has cast his vote for Edible, I'd like to hammer myself, and I really don't want this game to ruin the rest of the evening. If you finish and I don't vote myself out by 5:00 am thread time (midnight where I live), feel free to finish the day without me. I was planning on going out, and may not be available.