Miscellaneous Questions Thread 3 - Ask Question, Receive Answer

[Drake]

"tvtropes stated"

EDIT: I just mean that it isn't a great idea to take TVT as a really valid source of information, especially without citation.

[Clarste]

"tvtropes stated"

Normally we try to edit out clearly false stuff, but it's been a long time since I saw PCB's endings.

[Tiamat]

Yea, that's what I'm saying. I'm trying to figure out where TVtropes got it from cause I don't recall seeing any of that in any endings or canon source.

....well, Yuyuko's body sealing the tree is in Perfect Memento (Gensokyo Chronicles) so I guess it's public information anyways, now. Question is whether or not Yuyuko reads that thing.


Yuyuko: My body is the one sealing it?  GASP!  Youmu, this is an amazing and shocking revelation!!!

Youmu: That's been public information for years, now. -_-

[Tengukami]

EDIT: I just mean that it isn't a great idea to take TVT as a really valid source of information, especially without citation.

True of the wiki as well: both are secondary sources of information and, as both leave ample space for fan theory in the articles, being sure a claim cites a primary source is especially important.

[Drake]

as can be seen from a certain thread and people just taking the wiki's word for everything cough cough

[AnonymousPondScum]

How old is Patchouli, if there's any official word?

[Starxsword]

@Yuyuko's memory: At the end of Cage in Lunatic Runagate, the way Yuyuko talks seems like an indication that her memory may have possibly return, but other than that, I'm not sure where that would come from.

[Clarste]

How old is Patchouli, if there's any official word?

About a 100 years old. So it says in her EoSD profile.

[Drake]

How old is Patchouli, if there's any official word?

EoSD omake:
４面ボスです。お嬢様のお友達で大体１００年は魔女をしています。
The stage 4 boss. She's the mistress' friend and has lived for about 100 years as a magician.
PMiSS:
彼女は、生粋の魔法使いであり、既に百年以上生きているという。
She's a natural-born magician, and it's said she has already lived for more than 100 years.

[TrueShadow]

Among Byakuren's original followers in UFO, Shou and Nazrin were the only ones not sealed with the ship right? So where were they the whole time before the events of UFO? Did Shou hide and lay low in Gensokyo until her friends are freed, or did she stay in the outside world?

[CyberAngel]

From Shou's UFO profile:

When Byakuren was sealed away, she was completely focused on carrying out her duties as Bishamonten. She kept the fact that she was a youkai a secret from humans. She had her regrets about this, but it would have been self-destructive to reveal her true identity.

We can theorize she was performing her duties as an avatar of Bishamonten in front of people, whatever they may be. They saw her as nothing more than that, not realizing she's a youkai too, so she had no need to hide. But whether that was in Gensokyo or outside world is indeed an interesting question with no official answer.

[TrueShadow]

I think she would be in the Outside world. As far as we know, there weren't any temples devoted to Bishamonten in Gensokyo before UFO. And if there were, wouldn't it be weird that it has never been mentioned that an avatar of a major god has been serving there for 1000 years? (But then again we never knew Keine, effectively the village's guardian, existed before IN).

If she were really from the Outside World, people must have thought "Dude, where the heck did Shou go??"  :V

Also, same question, but were Seiga, Yoshika, and Tojiko in Gensokyo before TD? Futo and Miko were sleeping in the mausoleum, but Tojiko was roaming free as a ghost, right?

[ToyoRai]

Also, same question, but were Seiga, Yoshika, and Tojiko in Gensokyo before TD? Futo and Miko were sleeping in the mausoleum, but Tojiko was roaming free as a ghost, right?

This actually brings up a question I have: How do some poeple get through Hakurei Barrier? I mean, Mamizou clearly was living in Human World before Nue asked for help. So how did she get pass the Hakurei Barrier?

[TrueShadow]

This actually brings up a question I have: How do some poeple get through Hakurei Barrier? I mean, Mamizou clearly was living in Human World before Nue asked for help. So how did she get pass the Hakurei Barrier?

Which also brings the question...how did Nue ask Mamizou for help, anyway?

[monhan]

I'm curious about that too but I guess them keeping a low profile is the most likely answer to that. It might be more than that though.
Regarding Mamizou, the Hakurei shrine exist in both sides and you can enter from there. She probably knew about it and entered from there. As for Nue, I dunno. I remember I've read somewhere about Akyuu mentioning that some Youkai sometimes formed a group and went outside the border to hunt for humans but I believe they need permission from Reimu or Yukari. Maybe that's how Nue got out?

To be honest,  I'm more curious about what Byakuren were doing during her time in Hokkai. It is already revealed in SoPM that her seal only prevents her from going out, she's not bounded or anything. I like to think that aside from reading sutras, she spend her time there traveling around Hokkai, bumped into some material that was later made into her scroll, maybe fight some beings there, or found some other interesting things if Devil's Recitation is any indication.
I got this idea after reading a doujin. While Byakuren is in Hokkai, Shinki got interested in gaming and created some monsters from MH and the demons from SMT(including Hitoshura) that Byakuren ended up fighting(read: befriending). Pretty much doing a training in hell.
I had hoped that maybe she'll talk about Hokkai a little in HM but unfortunately she didn't. That would've been interesting since it could shed some light about that place. Of course, she might actually just spent her whole time reading sutras. But man, 1000 years, she's got some patience.

Also, regarding her magic, she basically have two. Buddhist magic that was taught to her by Myouren, which she probably perfected after his death, and her so called 'evil' Dark magic, which is pretty vague other than it is said to come from youkai and is the key to her youth. I'm curious about what made hers particularly 'evil', I thought we'll see some of it in HM but I think they didn't mention anything about it. I think we don't have enough info about it so I won't go there.
What I'm wondering is, which one is her 'buffing' magic? If we go by HM, she should be using her Buddhist one, what with the names and such, implying it's her buffing magic. However, in the wiki or her profile, it's said that the magic that is demonic in nature is the buffing magic, or there might be some mistranslation here. For a human to turn into a magician youkai, they must keep training their magic, usually the one they specialize, until they become a youkai. That's why I figured that her buffing magic is her demonic one, but I'm not so sure now.
Is Byakuren using a combination of her Buddhist and Youkai magic? Or she's still hiding something more?

While I'm at it, how good do you think she is compared to Marisa, Alice, and Patchouli in general about magic?
I like to think that she's better than even Patchouli, she won't be called a Great Magician for nothing, right?

What do you guys think?

[Clarste]

Akyuu says Byakuren's evil magic is based on her Buddhist magic. It's one and the same. While surely Byakuren would disagree about what makes magic good and evil, the implication is that it's a corruption of the holy magic.

[Tengukami]

Akyuu says Byakuren's evil magic is based on her Buddhist magic. It's one and the same. While surely Byakuren would disagree about what makes magic good and evil, the implication is that it's a corruption of the holy magic.

Does she use the words "based on"? Because that's not "one and the same".

[Clarste]

Does she use the words "based on"? Because that's not "one and the same".

She says "carried to the extremes of", which we have translated as "derived from". Well, even if it's not "one and the same" the point is simply that it doesn't come from some separate means. She just uses Buddhist art evilly.

[Tengukami]

She says "carried to the extremes of", which we have translated as "derived from".

OK, I was just confused there, as you'd said "one and the same", which clearly isn't the case, but then "corruption of holy magic", which would make a lot more sense.

So Byakuren's particular magic is based on Buddhism, but is its own, corrupted, extreme of this faith then. If I understand you right.

[monhan]

She says "carried to the extremes of", which we have translated as "derived from". Well, even if it's not "one and the same" the point is simply that it doesn't come from some separate means. She just uses Buddhist art evilly.

I get what you're saying, but her profile, especially the UFO one, suggest that it's a different thing entirely. Maybe I have to read it again...

[Drake]

Her UFO profile barely goes over her magic. She obtained Buddhist magic with Myouren, trained in fear of death, and gained powers that were more like black magic. Even without explicitly saying so it suggests the black magic came from the Buddhist magic rather than it being something new. SoPM elaborates on this:
彼女の魔法は、仏法を極めた事で身に付けた物である。
Her magic was acquired by taking Buddhism to its extremes.
しかし、大乗仏教（＊３）の道からは外れ、魔に魅入られた力を持っている。
However, she has strayed from the path of Mahayana and possesses demon-influenced/possessed power.
(Mahayana is basically what Byakuren preaches: by helping/saving everyone, nobody will suffer. It's absurdly idealistic but fits as a path of Buddhism.)

EDIT: I want to write a bit more about your post above, when I have a bit more time.

[Darkness1]

This actually brings up a question I have: How do some poeple get through Hakurei Barrier? I mean, Mamizou clearly was living in Human World before Nue asked for help. So how did she get pass the Hakurei Barrier?

Isn't there supposed to be like a Hakurei shrine in japan too? I assume you could travel to Gensokyo that way. It may also be other places that are sort of - entrances to Gensokyo. I'm not sure how it works, considering humans from the outside world can randomly end up in Gensokyo.

[Prime32]

It's implied that there a few paths in and out of Gensokyo, known only to youkai. I imagine the boundary is weak in certain remote caves, forests, fairy rings, etc.

Some of the humans who end up in Gensokyo were brought there by youkai, and others just got sucked through a random wormhole like the turtle guy (reality is fragile, just ask post-hospitalisation Maribel).

[Drake]

The outside Hakurei barrier works similarly to the Road of Reconsideration (i.e. also a weak point for several boundaries incl. the outside, Muenzuka and the Netherworld), where people who get near become dazed and confused and wander off back whence they came. I presume that if you wanted to go to Gensokyo and knew where it was and what the area's effects are (and had some magical ability), you could dispel the illusion and move through the barrier.

i can't remember where this is stated though

[Starxsword]

Which also brings the question...how did Nue ask Mamizou for help, anyway?

She's an Ex-Boss, she probably has a way to contact someone from the outside world. Same deal with how someone from the outside entering Gensokyo.
Just look at how the Scarlet Devil Mansion crew and the Mountain of Faith crew entered Gensokyo. They either magically forced their way in or something.

The outside Hakurei barrier works similarly to the Road of Reconsideration (i.e. also a weak point for several boundaries incl. the outside, Muenzuka and the Netherworld), where people who get near become dazed and confused and wander off back whence they came. I presume that if you wanted to go to Gensokyo and knew where it was and what the area's effects are (and had some magical ability), you could dispel the illusion and move through the barrier.

i can't remember where this is stated though

First part is mentioned in Perfect Momento in Strict Sense on the article about Road of Reconsideration. I believe Curiosities of Lotus Asia also mentions that a few times.

It is kind of surprising that Akyuu, at the age of about 10 visited here, as this place is High on the threat level. What with youkai waiting to ambush people and all that.

[ToyoRai]

Quick question, where does Akyuu live? I know she has her family mansion where she lives, but is it in the Human Village or close to it?

[Clarste]

Quick question, where does Akyuu live? I know she has her family mansion where she lives, but is it in the Human Village or close to it?

Almost certainly in the Human Village, although I can't remembered if this was confirmed anywhere. Um... in the latest chapter of FS Marisa is walking down a street when she hears something from Akyuu's house, which leads to a little "this is Akyuu's house, isn't it?" Given that she was on a street and not intentionally visiting Akyuu's house, I'd say that makes it pretty obvious that Akyuu's house is just a part of the village. Not that I ever doubted it before. She seems to be treated as something of a village elder because of her expertise on youkai.

[cuc]

(This is primarily for cuc, but of course anyone else feel free to jump in.)

I seem to recall you drawing parallels between Kokoro and this goddess. I can definitely see some parallels there, but I was wondering if you could expand on your thoughts.

That was pre-release speculation.

The logic was: the character is a kagura/noh dancer; the kashiwa leaf in the logo, being the symbol of priests, implies the new character is a dancing shaman, a messenger of the gods. Since Ame-no-uzume's dance is sometimes said to be the first kagura dance, she is kind of the iconic dancing shaman.

However, the logo turned out to be a red herring. Thematically, HM is a continuation of UFO, TD and SoPM, all about the sociology of religion, and does not at all deal with the religions' mythologies and metaphysics.

[OkashiiKisei]

We know how you can reach the Sanzu River on foot in Gensokyo, right? And we know souls are ferried across Sanzu River to Higan so that they can be judged, right?
So I wonder, is Gensokyo the only gateway to the Sanzu River in the world, or are there multiple gateways? Do all the souls in the world float off to Gensokyo to reach the Sanzu River and pass on, or do only the souls of Gensokyo take this gateway? And do only souls who believe in Shintoism/Buddhism go to Sanzu River, or all souls regardless of religion?
If all the souls in the world took this path, I can imagine you'd be drowning in souls and spirits every day in Gensokyo. :ohdear:

[Sagus]

I'm not sure, but I think that Komachi is specifically Gensokyo's ferryman (Shiki is explicitly said to be Gensokyo's Yama, so presumably she only judges the souls that come from there. If Komachi is her direct servant, it'd stand to reason that she only ferries souls from Gensokyo); therefore, that section of the Sanzu river is probably only visited by souls from Gensokyo.

I think that there are lots of places all over the world that one can (and, eventually, will) cross to reach different parts of the river (each with it's own ferryman), but I don't think there's anything in canon that can support this.

Maybe there are different destinies for people that belong to different faiths, but IIRC we don't really have any evidence for or against this.