Looking for critique on EoSD Normal run and advice on stage 5

[Black Phoenix]

Not sure where best to put this, since I'm after more than just spell card help, so a new topic it is

Basically, I'm after advice on EoSD Normal. I've put up a replay (albeit a worse one than I'd hoped) here.

Not much I can say on stages 1 and 2 (other than I have no idea how I didn't die during the initial bullet freeze of Perfect Freeze, since I stopped practically smack on top of a ruddy bullet!). That's one of my best stage 3 runs, even if somewhat inelegant through some of the stage parts, and needing two bombs to get past Extreme Color Typhoon (I hate that card). Stage 4 was a disaster though. Stupid stage deaths, an even stupider death on the midboss, only eclipsed by the really stupid death on Patchouli's second non-spell, and a death on Agni Shine that I can only put down to not paying enough attention. Oh yeah, and another wasted bomb at the end of Lava Cromlech as I hadn't realised just how close I was to the capture.

Stage 5 was as bad as ever. I just cannot figure out the first portion of that stage, short of using at least 2-3 bombs, which I hate doing. Under normal circumstances I can deal with midboss Sakuya, although I do need more practice at her non-spell (I can do Misdirection now at least, yay for replays ), and I find the second portion of the stage somewhat easier (from what I remember, I don't get there that often). I can also deal with Clock Corpse, though again more practice would help, but I need some advice for pretty much everything else on the stage. Practice mode isn't getting me very far for the sheer amount of bombs I'm using just to get through the first portion of the stage.

So yeah, any advice would be appreciated, as would any comments/critiques/advice on the replay.

[Piranha]

I try for a 1cc of EoSD normal myself, so I'm much in the same position like you.
But there are some tips I can give you:

-First three stages are good as far as I can see
-Almost everything in Stage 4 can be streamed
-you can use the space between the triple bullets to stream them,the middle one is aimed
-it's risky, so try misdirecting the bullets if streaming doesn't work
-you can stream the part before the lasers (even the blue bullets the fairies fire off during the lasers are aimed)
-the spikes that cross the screen after Koakuma(?) have a fixed order, you have to memorize that or bomb, if necessary
Patchy:
-1st non-spell: I try to move left, stream the bullets, and go back to the middle while she fires the second laser,then right, rinse and repeat(I'm not too sure about the success of this method)
-Agni Shine: If you see where the two bottommost layers of fire are, you can anticipate where to move
- the rest is dodging, afaik

Stage5:
-the blue bursts by the fairies are also aimed, so you can dodge it by sidestepping(took me some time to notice)
Sakuya: [filler]

Stage 6:
-the rings by the fairies are aimed as well, you have to sidestep when the fairies stop appearing on the side of the screen
-Eternal Meek is best played unfocused, but bomb, if necessary
Remi: [filler]

As soon as I uploaded the replay, I will say something about Saykuya and Remi(I still have problems with them)
Edit: Oh, I forgot there are no single stage replays for EoSD, I will upload one good try, then...Wish me luck (until tomorrow, when I have more time for replays)

Everyone else, feel free to correct me if I said something wrong

[Puffy]

Um...Could you upload a replay? Could be better for critiquing.

But in general as well as what Piranha has said, This helped me specifically for normal mode

[Black Phoenix]

Um...Could you upload a replay? Could be better for critiquing.

The replay is there... The link is the word "here" in bold, for some reason it did that rather than making it green like other links. I must have messed up somewhere, but I just tested it and it seems to work

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I'll take a look at that link as soon as I can, though I'm stuck doing uni work just at the moment.

Piranha: Thanks for the tips. I usually do better on stage 4 than that replay lets on, but there's still some useful stuff there A while ago I had both of Patchouli's non-spells nailed, though for some reason I've lost that, which is somewhat irritating. That said, I think I can handle most of everything else, so if I can get those non-spells and the stage nailed, I'll be doing well

I'd figured that the blue bursts at least follow a set pattern (I hadn't realised they were aimed though), I just can't figure out how best to dodge them, especially with the other fairies coming in from the sides spewing random crap that forever gets in my way. I've tried watching a few replays, but still can't really see any pattern. Sakuya I think I just need practice against. I know the trick of her midboss non-spell, and I can deal with Misdirection. It's her boss phase I struggle the most with, particularly when she starts spewing the random green knives. As for Remilia, I've only ever got to her twice, and got murdered both times by her opening non-spell...

[Puffy]

Woops! Sorry lol, not focusing today =P will have a look now.

Edit: From stages 1-3 was pretty good, though sometimes a bomb wasn't necessary but thats fine, I find ReimuA helps make stages easier, and ReimuB makes bossing easier, well its the first time i tried ReimuA (never touched her lol! I find her personally too weak)  but you may learn something new from watching replays:

Here and Here

thanks for the heads up fixed the link.

[Piranha]

A little tap to the left or right is all you need to dodge the bursts. After that, you can concentrate on dodging the random projectiles. But make sure you see when the next wave of burst fairies comes, and stop to move for sidestepping the bursts again. The random fairies are more or less practice.

Something I could pick up about Sakuya was that the knives during her first two nonspells are aimed, so you can evade them easier if you keep that in mind.
Luna clock and Marionette I'm not sure about, but I heard if you are closer to Sakuya when she spawns the green knives, they spread wider, making it easier to dodge them.
Would be nice if someone could confirm or negate this.

For Remilia, I learned everything I know about her (I fought her only two times in 1cc attempts) from this video. It's Lunatic, but the tricks for the non-spells and spellcards are explained very well.(and none of the Stage 6 normal replays on youtube was any good for showcasing)

But in general as well as what Piranha has said, This helped me specifically for normal mode

Oh wow, that is really helpful, thanks.

[Skyler]

I noticed that a lot of your deaths are caused by playing too high up the screen. If you're going for a first 1cc, try to play less aggressively. Your dodging skills aren't bad at all, you just need to be more careful and also bomb more, in stage 4 especially. I'll just say some things about the replay (edit: aka write a few huge paragraphs about it):


Stage 4
- At the start of the stage I usually go about halfway up the left side of the screen to kill the fairies that come from that area so there are less bullets to dodge. You don't seem to have a problem with not doing this, but it's useful.
- The fairies which shoot 3 rows of white bullets aim for you, so just lure their shots into a corner and get out of the way before they reach you. Again, try not to get too close to them.
- After the part where the fairies repeat their thing from the beginning, repeat the corner-luring strategy until the four "spiral-shooting" fairies come in. Don't go too high for these either. Reimu A makes this a little more difficult, but you should be fine if you just stick to one side, kill one batch and then switch to the other side. Their bullets are also aimed so small taps left or right should make this easier to deal with.
- More corner-luring, and then the books. As you did in your replay, bomb these if you're not comfortable.
- If you have bombs I would advise you to use one on Koakuma if you're not comfortable since she gives you one back afterwards anyway. Try to stay under her and be careful of the bubble hitboxes. They're larger in EoSD compared to the other games.
- This next part with the lasers and blue bullets: Lure the white shots into the corner as usual and then dash to the other side. The blue bullets are aimed, so streaming them works fine. Just watch that you don't get trapped by a laser and bomb if you do.
- Kill the fairy on the left and lure the white bullets. The green shots don't complicate things much but make sure you don't crash into one of them. Don't go too high up the screen either. Bomb if you can't kill the fairy before the streamable white shots reach you, assuming that you have any left. Repeat on the right for the second part.
- Be cautious with this next part. You can't do the corner-luring strategy here because of how the enemies move. It's easier with Reimu A and her homing, but this is how the pattern goes: Top left, top right, mid-left, mid-right, top right, top left, mid right, mid left. Follow the pattern and only go to the POC when you're sure it's safe. If you get caught out of position, bomb. It's not worth losing a life here.
- For the three spiral fairies, I just bomb. A lot of point and power items fall off the screen if you don't, but if you have no bombs them just do some focused damage to the middle fairy when it comes on screen, dash left to kill the left one, finish off the middle one and then kill the right one. Again, their shots are aimed, and bomb if you get walled. This may happen often with Reimu A (on Hard at least. I haven't played Normal in a while).


Patchouli
First nonspell: After the lasers have disappeared, go to the left (not all the way) and stream the bullets to the right until you're just to the left of her. Hug the bottom. Just when the red bullets are about to hit you, go right. Don't be afraid of the laser coming your way; its hitbox disappears when it gets to about just past Patchouli. Then just move away from the other laser. I can upload a replay if you don't understand how to do this.
Agni Shine: This can be a pain. Dodge as best as you can and don't be afraid to bomb if things get too tough. Staying at the bottom is better so you have less sets of flaming bullets to deal with.
Second nonspell: Same as the first, it's just faster. Go a bit farther to the left this time so you end up in the same place as before, then repeat the first strategy.
Rage Trilithon High Level: Just dodge as hard as you can. Bomb if you get walled. I find this easier than the regular Rage Trilithon, to be honest.
Lava Cromlech: I don't like this spell at all. It's like the first two combined and it's pretty much random, so just dodge and bomb if you're having trouble.
Mercury Poison: This one makes my eyes go funny. Try to dodge both sets of bullets as best as you can. You'll have to dodge in all directions on this card but don't worry about staying under her too much as that can get tricky.
(Sorry I couldn't give much advice about Patchouli; most of her attacks are random and for that you just need to practice. Good luck.)


Stage 5
- The trademark of this stage is the fairies that shoot lines of blue bullets. These are all aimed. Every single one, including the last barrage before boss Sakuya. That's extremely important. Two of your deaths on this stage happened because you moved while they were firing, thus making them fire all over the place. Try and stay as still as possible until they've stopped firing, then tap in one direction to avoid them.
- The fairies which spew random white bullets are a bit of a pain when you're trying to stream the blue lines, but they shouldn't be too much of a problem. If things get too claustrophobic, bomb. There's a way to avoid them by going to the top of the screen, but I wouldn't advise it if you're not familiar with how it works.
- After that section comes more streaming. Go a bit left and then tap right for every wave that comes your way. Again, if you move while they're firing then their shots will get scrambled so don't do that.
- The reason you need to stream from the left is so you can end up in the center to kill the first fairy that comes in. Reimu A kills it slower but it still helps to be under it from the start. These fairies shoot walls of blue bullets which can box you in easily so you'll want to kill them as fast as possible.
- Midboss time. Sakuya's nonspell is very annoying; she deliberately tries to box you in with long streams of knives and walls of red kunais. Try to dodge under her because it makes it harder otherwise. Oh, and remember that the knives have a weird hitbox; I think it's the glow around the knife rather than the knife itself, so be careful.
- Second half: almost everything is aimed away from you so you don't need to move much until the blue streamable fairies come in again. Once again, everything is streaming. Don't panic on the last barrage.


Sakuya
First nonspell: This one's annoying and very wall-happy. Try to get out of the way of walls as fast as possible. When she fires the spread of knives, just go a bit left or right to get around the middle streams.
Clock Corpse: Stay at the bottom. After she places the knives, move to the left or right through the lanes. Watch out that you don't run into a white bullet. I find this easier on Hard actually, but it's not difficult on Normal either.
Second nonspell: Again, wall-happy. Dodge as best as you can and finish it off quickly. 
The World Luna Clock: Similar to Clock Corpse. You want to be a bit less than halfway up the screen and a bit to one of the sides so when she resumes time you can misdirect some of the knives into one corner and move out of the way. The way the knives are misdirected is random however, so don't be afraid to bomb.
Third nonspell: Watch that you don't get clipped by a knife. If you're not at full power then a power item can be used to clear the first couple of waves, making this one a little easier. Try to stay in the lanes and bomb if you get trapped.
Marionette: More walling. This one loves to trap you, like all of Sakuya's attacks. Stay at the bottom and as soon as she resumes time run up around the knives until there's nothing between you and her. For the next few waves, just try and dodge as best as you can or bombspam the damn thing. If you're finding it hard to get fire time on her then just time it out; the timer isn't that long and it's easier than trying to cap it. Again, good luck.


Stage 6
- The first part is just random. Go to the side and kill one set of enemies to lessen the amount of bullets on the screen.
- The ring-fairies are aimed like Piranha said, so just tap to avoid them. This goes for all of them.
- Sakuya's first nonspell tries to wall you, no surprise there. It's not too difficult otherwise, but bomb if you get trapped.
- Eternal Meek can be dealt with if you use a bomb but otherwise it's just dodging. I hope you have good reaction times for this one.


Remilia
- You'll need to use your bombs a lot for her. Her opener consists of weird hitboxes and walls so it's not surprising you died there. Use a bomb if you have one and dodge as best as you can.
- Star of David: The big bullets have very large hitboxes so don't try to go through a cluster of them. Bomb if you get trapped. 
- Second nonspell: The pattern is this - aimed, non-aimed, non-aimed, aimed. Stream the aimed parts but don't stay too close to the shots because a bullet may veer away from the rest of the group and kill you.
- Scarlet Netherworld: My strategy isn't the best; I try and find a place where none of the bullets will hit me for each wave because I never properly learned how to deal with crossing bullets. But then this card is hard for most people, so good luck.
- Third nonspell is nothing but don't go to the POC because it doesn't give you a chance. Stay in the knife lanes and everything will pass by you if you don't move.
- Curse of Vlad Tepes: This likes to throw a random wall at your face so bomb if that happens. Move either right or up to dodge the knife closest to you. After that it's just down to raw dodgework to avoid the red orbs but it shouldn't be too bad.
- Fourth nonspell: She first fires random bursts, then aimed bubbles, then aimed flaming bullets. The random part is the hardest because she moves around while she's firing, making it like an altered version of Extreme Colour Typhoon. Try to dodge the bullets and bomb if you can't. Afterwards just stream the other two parts.
- Scarlet Shoot: Start at one side and stream the five bursts to the other side. For the next phases try and do the same while weaving through the trails left by the ones before. I had a lot of trouble with this card when I faced it the first few times and I still can't always get it; it's hard.
- Red Magic: Like Curse of Vlad Tepes it throws walls at you sometimes. Dodge as best as you can and hope that you can finish her off.


I can upload a replay if you want. Some strategies in this post may be hard to understand without seeing how they're done.

[Zil]

I didn't read the other comments too thouroughly, but Glimmer seemed to make some good points. Anyway...

Stage 1 - this went well

Stage 2 - I don't think you want to waste a bomb at the beginning. My impression is that you wanted to collect items, but I'd say just save the bomb for a better time. You can micro-dodge Cirno's opener. It didn't kill you in this run, so don't worry too much, but on higher difficulties I'd just micro-dodge it.

Stage 3 - You're always at the top of the screen. Again, it didn't kill you here, but that's generally a risky thing to do. For Meiling's last spell, you move around too much. Stay still, try to take in a big area around your character, and just dodge the large chunks of bullets. Just keep cool and take the easiest path.

Stage 4 - You killed yourself with the item collecting. Both the parts that killed you are just streaming if you're at the bottom of the screen. You're doing Patchy's non-spells strangely. It's not "wrong" but there's a no-brainer approach. I think Glimmer summed it up. The spells are pretty random, so practice I guess. Also, you didn't die at the book lasers, but that part's streaming as well. Bombing the green spam before Kaokuma is understandable, but the mid-boss herself shouldn't kill you. Definitely practice this.

Stage 5 - It's like you were trying to die or something. Just stay at the bottom and stream. The fast bullets are aimed, the slow ones can be dodged once you're out of the way of the others. You can trivialize most of the stage, including the midboss non-spell, by staying at the very top. It takes some memorization, but it's very easy to do when you understand it.
As for Sakuya, Glimmer said to stay at the bottom for Luna Dial. I haven't played Normal in ages, but for the Lunatic version, (ZA WARUDO!) you actually want to stay very close to Sakuya. She spawns daggers at a fixed distance from you, so if you're right in front of her, the daggers appear way up at the top. Then quickly rush down and dodge them. After dodging move up to Sakuya again. On Lunatic she shoots some fireballs at close range, so you can't get too close. I don't know about Normal.
EDIT: I just checked Normal, and she shoots smaller bullets that go farther than the fireballs. You should still get as close as you can though. Also, don't dodge the nonspells at the bottom of the screen. Don't stand over Sakuya during the midboss, because you'll time out the non-spell and won't get the extra life from Misdirection. If you enter the stage at less than full power, wait until the wall spamming fairies before the midboss to pick up a power item. That way you can clear their bullets for free.

Stage 6 - I think Remi's second nonspell can be dodged by standing directly above her. Otherwise it's misdirecting and streaming or whatever.

[Skyler]

After having a couple of goes at stage 5, I changed the information about Luna Clock in my post.

[Black Phoenix]

OK, thanks for the input everyone, I'll action all your suggestions and see how I get on. To cover a few other things:

@Glimmer: A replay might be useful as well, if you're ok putting one together. Thanks for the write-up as well though, as sometimes I can watch a replay alone and not see the pattern behind any dodging. Just one comment on being so far up the screen; at the point in stage 4 with the enemies flying in from various parts of the screen firing the three-pronged homing shots, I've found (more by luck than good judgement admittedly) that if I get the positioning right, I can take many of them out before they even fire, hence why i was playing that far up.It worked best on the ones coming from the top rather than the sides, and was very position-dependent, but given how badly I did in that replay, I think I'd be better following your advice on that one And yeah, beyond her two non-spells Patchouli is pretty much straight-up dodging, which makes a pleasant change from all the IN runs I did getting those 1cc's...
I've got to hold my hands up on stage 5, I hadn't a clue those blue stream were aimed, so I'll give your suggestions a shot and see how I get on. My usual strategy for Clock Corpse involves starting at the left, and after she freezes time, dodge under to the right, and sit in any lanes left by the knives. The white bullets can screw this over somewhat, but usually it ends to work. I tried applying this to Luna Clock as well, but the green knives screw me over, so I'll try your suggestions.
On Eternal Meek, I'm assuming, provided I remember that spell card right, that hugging the bottom and horizontal dodging would be my best bet. I know it's really fast (not helpful coupled with Reimu's lack of movement speed), so the more space, and therefore reaction time, the better! I'm yet to get a proper run at Remilia, but I'll keep your advice in mind when I do get that far

@Zil: Not sure why I separated my replies like this, since a lot of it I covered above, but hey ho
Yes, the bomb at the start of stage 2 was for item collection. I was under the impression that's what most people did, but I'll give it a go without the bomb and see how I get on. Given that my runs against Meiling can vary, an extra bomb wouldn't go amiss. As for Cirno's opener, I have sen replays micro-dodging that, I just didn't have any success the one time I tried. that being said, I hadn't been playing the game long at that stage, so I may well have more success now.
Most of my stage 3 positioning is either for easy item collection, such as the very first enemy waves that don't shoot back, or for taking out enemies as quickly as ReimuA can to stop them shooting. It has screwed me over on many occasions though, especially when all the red bullet spread shots turn up, so I'll keep that in mind. I'll try following your advice on Extreme Color Typhoon as well
It's starting to look like I have some sort of obsession with the PoC :S I'll keep your advice in mind and back off a bit though. With Patchouli, 'm pretty sure |I sued to be able to time her first laser very well, to the extent that I'd dodge past it just as it died. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find that rhythm again, and end up waiting for it to die before moving, which is making it a lot harder, so I'll give Glimmer strategy a shot. I think it was lack of practice that caused me to mess up Koakuma. I know how to dodge her big bullets, it's the smaller ones that messed me up, as I concentrated too much on keeping away from those and ran into one of her bigger ones. I actually prefer fighting Koakuma with Marisa, since she can dodge the big bullets more easily than Reimu while staying focused.
On my second death in stage 5, I pretty much was. I thought my invincibility from the new life was still up so I didn't even try to dodge. After watching the replay back, I think it had only just dropped, so I wasn't too far off. I really do need to practice my streaming though. This is what i get for playing IN first... I'll give getting close to Sakuya a try, as I've seen that strategy posted before. It might also make the smaller blue bullets less of an issue, as they'll be out of the way by the time I need to dodge the knives. As for your edit, ok, I;ll keep that in mind. I can dodge midboss Sakuya's non-spell, so I'm not too bothered about that. I just need to practice more for consistency.

As I said earlier, thanks for the input. As soon as I get some time amongst my uni work, I'll try a few more runs and se how I get on

EDIT:

Woops! Sorry lol, not focusing today =P will have a look now.

Edit: From stages 1-3 was pretty good, though sometimes a bomb wasn't necessary but thats fine, I find ReimuA helps make stages easier, and ReimuB makes bossing easier, well its the first time i tried ReimuA (never touched her lol! I find her personally too weak)  but you may learn something new from watching replays:

Here and Here

For some reason, the link to the first replay is a bit funny. I've managed to get to it now, but the link refused to take me straight there for some reason. looking at the actual text in the quote above, I think you've put too many "http://"'s in.  Just a heads up

[Skyler]

I'll try to get a replay uploaded, then. I did one earlier but the Sakuya fight was so terrible that I didn't want to show it. I died to Clock Corpse at the last second, did Luna Clock wrong and had to bomb, then I think I just bombed most of Marionette. I'm going to keep working at it, though.

[Puffy]

fixed link and as for cirno's opener, you might as well safespot it.

[I have no name]

Here, have a 5 month old replay in which I don't die or bomb to Stage 5.

[Piranha]

Finally got a replay of a 1cc with ReimuA.

Regarding the replay:
-I'm still not comfortable with Colorful Rain and Extreme Color Typhoon
-Slightly screwed up some of the misdirecting in stage 4
-Definitely have to practice Sakuya and Remilia more
-I normally play ReimuB, so it was a little more difficult with ReimuA

[Skyler]

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=17445

Replay. I die to the beginning of stage 5 but you get the general idea of how it's done.
Also I screwed up on both Clock Corpse and Luna Clock again, but I then time them out so you can actually see how they work.
Two bombs on Sakuya's second nonspell because rage.
Did I mention I hate this fight?

[Black Phoenix]

Thanks for posting up those replays I ran through a load of practice runs on stage 4 earlier today. and while I'm getting the hang of most of it, I'm struggling to get to grips with Patchouli's non-spells, so hopefully those replays will give me an example to work from. I'm ok streaming the first wave, but I end up way out of position after her second set of lasers, and in trying to get back to dodge I end up walling myself, either on the next set of streaming bullets or her third set of lasers. That being said, I managed to out-dodge the book spam before Koakuma pretty much every run, which I guess is an achievement...