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Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4187.0)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4614.0)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5049.0)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.0)
Thread 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6744.0.html)
Thread 6 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.0.html)
English wiki (http://www.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
Japanese wiki (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
2.04 download (http://www.mediafire.com/?mzdgl54mxmi)
2.06B download (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC)
NG+ save file (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7188.0;attach=15055) For 3.01
Cheat table for use with Cheat Engine. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.msg356800#msg356800)(Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010)
Cheat Table for Special Disc (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.msg377088#msg377088) (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010)
Suggested builds for characters (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521)
Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/?w5jig4q58hlmy3z)
Image packs
Squidtentacle's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chirpy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/?pc8dovp81cj8u8z)
Let me know if there are other links you guys want in here.
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Yay new thread!
My let's play has taken off to include Meiling and Chen fights now. :derp: Sadly, Rumia's moonlight ray always seems to lag on camera beyond anything else. I really need a better computer.
But it turned out well! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97xx6HtwwJU)
Starting out was harder than anticipated, everyone's tp was so low. I'll admit, I hacked my skill points enough to raise a few character's tp by 1 or 2 to make things slightly easier. I may do it again once I reach the agonizing floor 10-12 and have more characters. I took everyone's advice and used Yukari as one of my 2 chosen. The defense/mind buff was needed, and her par attack will work well with the rest of my team, not to mention she can wall.
I haven't decided on my last character though. Okuu or Kanako both would help me with Foes, but Okuu wouldn't be able to do much in battles for a long time other than wall fire damage and speed through turns for switching. Kanako would give me a great nuke variety, and she can also tank most things.
But if I choose either of those two, I would abandon any kind of speed buff I'd find in Aya or Sakuya, and would rely on Sanae for miniscule buffs where she should be healing. I'm really stuck. My main fear is how well I'd deal against enemies like rinnousuke
, who are immune to debuffs and have defense piecing.
What would be better, Aya or a dedicated nuker?
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Honestly, I don't find SPD buffing your party to be incredibly useful. I've tried taking a SPD buffer through the main game and keep dropping them from my party after awhile, but even people who have used them in a full run and then done a run without it seem to say "Well, it actually wasn't really that bad to not have SPD buffs."
It doesn't help that effective switching in and out of characters is far more important to speeding up your party then SPD buffs, and that SPD buffing actually messes that up.
If you pick someone for damage, I'd say pick someone who either is really good (Chen) or someone who is able to take a hit as well (Remilia is wonderful for this, and Kanako is passable as well). Mari with her self-buff can take a hit, and covers several elements plus debuffs, although she has high SP cost outside of her weaker attack. Keine is a good tank and can buff offensive stats pretty well which is sorta damage :V
About fighting Rinnosuke, don't worry; with Yukari's defensive buffs, you should be taking really low damage from him with anyone who has decent defensive stats. It's just that he's terrifying without any DEF/MND buffs.
Also just remembered that you have Renko with her Charge buff. It's risky, but it packs a whole lot into one spell. Overall Renko will be pretty great at certain times, with her insane PAR/Debuffing/Buffing at high SP costs. She'll be someone to throw SP+ or SP Recovery items on.
edit:also you messed up your link a little
I'm starting to consider doing a NG+ after I beat winner, and for this, I'm going to look into fixing up some of the crappier pictures in the alphes set I made. Like Eirin. Ugh, why did I pick that picture I used over the other available one? And I already replaced Flan forever ago. Renko is ugly and Cirno is eh. I dunno if anyone even uses that set, though.
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oh dear god there's actually decent alphes-style pictures on danbooru for maribel and renko now , they aren't awesome but they're better then what I had (Renko had scary eyes and unremovable white grains around her, mari had literally no alphes pic >: )
also now I remember why I didn't use the other eirin, she looks so freaking evil, but oh well it matches at least, and the other cirno one is a little off but I'll check some other sources too
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I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.
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Play the game with SKP invested into EVA :V
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Thanks for the advice, and fixed the link. I think I'll use Kanako in that case. That way, my defensive buffs will actually mean something since I have so many tanks. and now you have me hunting character portraits all over again.
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Play the game with SKP invested into EVA :V
You're crazy :V Although I want to test something.......*Goes to test*
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I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.
sure why not
maribel, eirin, komachi, rumia, keine, meiling, minoriko, cirno, alice, sakuya, yuuka, mokou
Might be a little low on power for random battles. Perhaps switch any of the last three with Orin, Kanako. If it's too hard then switch someone for Reimu because Reimu makes any party way better. Or for Yukari since she can be Reimu without a hax party fullheal.
Also agreeing with whoever said so in last thread that Eirin is pretty crappy. Her attack power is very lackluster with a MAG build, and while a defensive build might make her tanky, her heal being single-target for 50% HP is horrible. Other singletarget healers like Minoriko or Sanae or even REIMU should be nearly fullhealing, and not-Sanae is pretty high enough MND to be tanky.
Also, about what PescoRumia said, I've been wondering if maybe I should play 1.13 of thLaby. In other words, non-plus-disk version where EVA works.
Been tuning up a few pictures in my set, about to check to see if I can get a better Cirno and then throw in Renko/Mari pictures. Then I'll reupload for anyone who cares.
I should probably be playing mafia, though. Right after I start uploading, I suppose.
edit:god why didn't I just use this cirno the first time
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Alice with a pure MAG build rips floor trash. And she can handle all enemy types because non-elemental and hits DEF/MND as you need. She does run out of SP pretty quickly early on though.
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I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.
Chen, Maribel, Aya, Sakuya, Remilia, Tenshi, Minoriko, Sanae, Reisen, Iku, Komachi, Eirin.
Eirin is for my sadistic pleasure.
The main theme is self buffing. Characters with targetable buffs (AKA, Potatoes, Good Girl, Troll, Maid and Fishy) can only use them on themselves. Komachi is replacable if you don't plan on taking on Shiki. Hopefully you can compensate for no group healing with multiple healers.
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No Suika, mister NEETori? :3c
I really should replace my picture for her too, actually, but :lazy:. Doing Renko right now and then I'm done.
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D'oh. Suika would make for a nuke, which this team lacks outside of Komachi.
Swap Iku for Suika. They'd fill the same purpose anyways, and Suika hits way harder.
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k http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3GXKKIQ0
Renko and Mari aren't the most awesome pictures ever but they'll match everyone else and not look shitty, at least.
Suika I probably should have replaced, but didn't feel like it. *doh* Wriggle still has some non-major problems, and several characters could probably look a little sharper then they are (Iku and Meiling especially), but that's insignificant. A few (Nitori, Chen, Orin, Ran, Sanae others I forgot) had slightly sharper images replaced in, but they're basically the same. Minoriko still has an oddish picture combo with a Stand that doesn't quite match and an LFace from a completely different picture that matches everyone else.
Cirno and Eirin were completely replaced, in addition to Renko/Mari. Depending on how old the last one I uploaded was, this might be a new Flandre as well.
edit:nevermind renko/mari still look kinda bad but OH WELL there's so little art of them that remotely fits in at all
also I need to give orin a bigger head in her LFace, maybe Renko/Mari too, but :effort:
And the newly added sharper images are so much sharper that they make the other images look worse. >:
edit again:okay and cirno needs a bigger head (her and orin will be fine with bigger heads) and you know what the default game images for maribel/renko are probably best, seriously
There's a second set for Cirno in there that you might like better, and keep the Orin LFace you already have if you're overwriting an old alphes set.
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It's kinda tempting to want to play the game with evasion since it's there and might make it more "advanced". But the fact is I rekon it'd only be frusterating and luck-dependant.
I mean, Particularly for bosses with their "I just casted focus and when I move you LOSE" phases, "miss, miss".. yeah.. pretty stupid IMO.
If it wasn't for that one thing, I think evasion might work. But even still, since there is no accuracy stat or whatever, the whole evasion thing just sounds kinda borked from the beginning I think.
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There's accuracy modifiers in character attacks. Obviously since evasion is borked, it doesn't really matter.
Chen would seem ultra broken if EVA were to work. EVA build + massive dumping of SKP into EVA + her EVA self-buff. Nothing could touch her and she can switchwhore like no other. And peck out damage occasionally.
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There's accuracy modifiers in character attacks. Obviously since evasion is borked, it doesn't really matter.
Yeah I know, but they are attached to the attack, they don't grow with leveling, and as it is, players generally have to use a very specific sequence of power attacks and power characters to survive desperation phases at reasonable levels. Being forced to use less than ideal attacks (if they were so) for their accuracy during such periods would just suck. I know Master spark is supposed to have great accuracy, but I dunno about all the power nukes... If they ALL were very accurate, then the already less useful end-game nukes will only become more useless!
Basically, desperation phases, and accuracy, do not mix well IMO.
Edit: Actually, I had a similar discussion on Kong a few months back. I think hit/miss accuracy in general is actually a very stupid and flawed system for strategy games and rpgs. I think the best form of accuracy and evasion was the one used in FF2/4. Where each character had multiple attacks, (like Cecil has 6 as soon as he's a paladin at level 1 IIRC). You don't see him attacking 6 times, but it basically just rolls hit/miss for each attack 6 times hidden behind the scenes, then multiplies the damage according to how many hit. That's why you rarely saw miss in the game later on (except with casters who had few attacks) , but had damage fluctuating a LOT. This system made accuracy and evasion meaningful, but also made them less than either absolutely needed desperately (cuz you always miss, or frusteratingly occasionally miss), or don't need it at all (once you hit, you don't need more right?).
A game like labyrinth of Touhou wouldn't make as much sense, why is Marisa shooting 16 master sparks? But I rekon they could just modify it so it represents stuff like grazing hit, glancing hit, nick, hit, critical hit, etc.
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I think one of the most annoying mechanics for me, though, is probably Shiki's boss fight. She can decide just to say "Fuck you I win" whenever she wants, which makes the battle heavily luck based. Also, I wish composite attacks were more consistent, but having the potential to deal massive damage works well too.
Oh, sank 2 million skill points into Meiling's defenses. 80k/52k/30k defenses, which means she's the most physically durable character I have.
Tenshi, Reimu and Yukari are next for huge point sinks.
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I kinda wanna play this game again. Someone give me some sort of challenge. Like, pick my characters for me. Minimum of 8 though.
Since you did a PCB team, do a MoF Team next. If I remember correctly, that gives you exactly 8 characters to work with. (The tankiest character you get is Kanako, though -good luck tanking attacks).
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Actually he has 2 tanks. Kanako and Minoriko both can wall magic. Aya can haste up the healing and nuking process of everyone. Sanae as a secondary healer / buffer / floor cleaner. Suwako as a stati inducer and earth nuke. Nitori for non elemental. Reimu can wall, heal, and Marisa would be a floor cleaner / mys nuke.
It could work.
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Strong physical attacks would hurt everyone way too much.
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Strong physical attacks would hurt everyone way too much.
touche. Then again, that's only 8 characters. You could always bring in other tanks that might fit the theme, like Yuugi, or maybe even Tenshi or Rinnousuke if you're more daring.
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Subterranean Animism. Partners + Reimu and Marisa are 8, add on Yuugi, Orin and Okuu for 11, and Sanae for 12.
Yuugi as a physical tank with offensive presence, Reimu as a mind tank and healer, and Yukari as a balanced tank. You get several nukers, a couple stay-in attackers, and have Reimu and Sanae for support.
Oh speaking of Sanae, I found her horribly outclassed by Minoriko unless I just use her to buff. A tanky build can take advantage of Miracle Fruit by buffing herself first, then, spam it on anyone who would appreciate the boost (a stay-in attacker like Alice, for example), and Miracle Fruit can aid in her otherwise weak heals.
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Also, about what PescoRumia said, I've been wondering if maybe I should play 1.13 of thLaby. In other words, non-plus-disk version where EVA works.
That megaupload link isn't working for me. Also Garlyle was playing v1.13 a while ago but I don't know how far he got.
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Since you did a PCB team, do a MoF Team next. If I remember correctly, that gives you exactly 8 characters to work with. (The tankiest character you get is Kanako, though -good luck tanking attacks).
I never actually finished it :V Bunch of reasons to explain. I got to floor 15 and stopped I want to play this game again, just not continue that file. I'll save it in case I finish.
Let me comment on the suggested teams.
maribel, eirin, komachi, rumia, keine, meiling, minoriko, cirno, alice, sakuya, yuuka, mokou
Interesting team. Has some nice characters to clear trash with but only enough for about one battle due to SP cost, but manageable since I can just run from them to fight a boss if necessary. Does have some good boss killing potential though, and a few tankers. Might try this.
Chen, Maribel, Aya, Sakuya, Remilia, Tenshi, Minoriko, Sanae, Reisen, Iku, Komachi, Eirin.
Also like this one a bit, but not too much. Might swap Iku for Suika if I decide on this one.
do a MoF Team
Nitori and Marisa will just be the nukers, Reimu as DEF/MND buffer/Healer, Aya smacks and SPD buffs, Sanae buffs and attacks, Kanako will tank, Suwako will just Paralyze whoever, and what's her name will heal and be a MND tank.Yeah I already thought that team out, and since Nitori has Megawatt Linear Gun...I'm saying no :V
Subterranean Animism. Partners + Reimu and Marisa are 8, add on Yuugi, Orin and Okuu for 11, and Sanae for 12.
Also thought on this one. I don't wanna do Reimu and Marisa + 6 partners cause then I have so many nukers and trash clearers(Marisa, Alice, Nitori, Patchouli, Okuu, and Yuugi). Maybe do Reimu or Marisa with their 3 partners + the SA characters and Sanae. If I choose SA, I'll probably do Reimu w/ Yukari, Suika, and Aya + SA and Sanae.
So far the SA one I mentioned, Team A, and Team B are decent contenders. Team A(NeoSerela's suggestion) might get picked, Team B(NEETori's) has a good chance, and SA is a bit low but not out. I'll decide on saturday, so suggest more if you got some other ideas. :D
Edit: I might add in Renko to Team A. I never used her but I want to just to try her out.
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So I'm at around Reimu 320ish, and I'm thinking of taking on the Cave Bosses v2. I'm pretty sure with Renko and Reisen's help, I can take Bloody Papa, but what about the others?
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You can't do BoC, I'm pretty sure of that. Honestly, I didn't bother stopping grinding until like lv400~, so I'm not entirely sure :V
Master Wings EVD or whatever it was is the easiest (other then fully debuffed Bloody Papa), though, I think.
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Ugh, Bloody Papa was a nightmare for my team. Oh yeah, and I finally managed to find a better codec for my runthrough videos, it doesn't lag anymore. (although it is slower than usual). So, yay! Also, upcoming fight with Youmu.
My team so far is Rumia, Meiling, Patchy, Yukari, Yuuka, Iku, and Kanako. I'm around lvl 10. Think I can take her? Kanako can only get one hit off at a time, and Yukari's only there for shielding. Yuuka can get a few flower shots off. rumia and Patchy are my main nukes with Iku being a steady damage mage. Meiing as an obvious wall / healer.
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If I'm not mistaken, then Youmu and Myon don't resist debuffs, so Iku's going to really crank up whatever physical damage you've got. Of course, Kanako's the only person you have that can take advantage of that so... :\
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Debuffs, poison and DTH work on Youmu/Myon. Poison is really underated.
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Wriggle's poison is AMAZING damage... until you beat 16F boss. 18F is immune to poison and the final boss is immune to it once you reach her berserk phase (aka most of the fight), and then in Plus-Disk it's damage is pretty wimpy because it doesn't scale well.
And of course, if you aren't using Wriggle, then whatever next-strongest-PSN you have is probably at LEAST worth using. Until PSN becomes suck.
...it's practically like characters need separate Main Game and Plus Disk evaluations.
Also, I've realized MAG-based Ran using her composite attack is better (generally, of course not always) then using Orin or Alice. On bosses, at least. Someone needs to check this out, as I feel Ran has missed out on way too much exp for me to throw her into my party NOW. With NOW being Reimu lv533, so, uh, yeah.
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I used MAG-Ran with En No Ozuno spam when she wasn't busy buffing on my first playthrough. Definitely does nice damage, and the delay and SP costs are low.
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Also, I've realized MAG-based Ran using her composite attack is better (generally, of course not always) then using Orin or Alice. On bosses, at least. Someone needs to check this out, as I feel Ran has missed out on way too much exp for me to throw her into my party NOW. With NOW being Reimu lv533, so, uh, yeah.
MagRan is a beast offensively, and with her passable defenses, she's definitely a great bosskiller.
Oh and add on Princess Tenko and Fox-Tanuki Youkai laser for coverage and you're set.
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...Of course I wouldn't have any poison... Or do I?
Since I just beat Cirno and would have gotten Minoriko, I can likely introduce Sanae and another member to my team. Komachi would be a decent choice, but I don't want to win a boss fight via DTH. That'd be some let's play video. :derp: I wonder how a half ghost is even vulnerable to that i nthe first place?
...I wonder what would happen if I decided to make china a mook physical attacker? Well, stupid question. I'd likely lose a really good tank and ruin it... or would I? It'd be interesting to see what would happen if I cheat engined Yuugi-esque stats on Meiling, but that would ruin the purity of my Let's Play. >.<
Dang it commitment why must you betray me so!?
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Yes, making an ATK-based Meiling would ruin her. She's bad for floor trash because she's single-target and she's bad for bosses because her ATK simply isn't that great even if you try to make it high. She's the best tank ever, though, and even once you start becoming so immune to everything that Healer is useless for status-curing, by then it's decent for actual healing, scaling similarly to Rumia's heal.
Also, Reimu lv572 and only need an Egg and the three 30F boss drops. I'll probably challenge Winner at lv600. Even though technically I should be able to beat him by then, but whatever.
goddamn like the last 30 hours of gameplay are pure grinding adsfasfdasfadfs (And yes this is with animations off, I feel bad for anyone who legitimately beat Winner before animation-off-patch thing came around)
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I wont disagree that ran can put out some nice damage. But..well, her buffs are just incomparable IMO. I mean I *LOVE* those buffs, best buffer in the game IMO.
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2slow for me
also winner is a WHORE
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It's so fun calling everyone whores isn'it?
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I wont disagree that ran can put out some nice damage. But..well, her buffs are just incomparable IMO. I mean I *LOVE* those buffs, best buffer in the game IMO.
Personally, I like her and Iku equally. Ran is if the boss is near impossible to get a safe switch and buff into (like Flan), but passes out stronger buffs easier. Although Ran makes Reimu more effective (Iku generally won't find the time to stickleback Reimu)
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Ran can buff defense too though, Iku cannot. I know most people are all lime attackattackattack, but I lime Moar defense than hakkurei barrier myself, also let's you use reimu's heal more too if needed. Really, I use both fairly equally. Though ran is pretty Meh as a buffer until floor 12-14.
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Huh. Well, lvl 10 and got off about 13k damage on Yomoo. Iku plays a lot better without her buff than I thought. In fact, she's dealing almost as much damage per fight as Patchy. I dedicate Sanae to switching in and buffing Iku or Rumia sparkly clean, and switching out. Meiling is meiling, and yukari buffs as well. At this level, her attacks are pointless. Granted she has speed down and paralysis, her buff kept me alive long enough to get that ghosty out of the way and focus on the main threat.
but, due to Youmu's cold resistance, Kanako didn't play much of a role. I swatted a few flies away with Kourin, and things went well. I can probably take her by the time I reach 15. It was fun trying though. I actually held my ground until she started spamming God Slash.
Now, I could just let her ghost hang out and try to fight them both at once, killing Youmu first. But I really don't want to give myself that much grief, poison damage would pile up like crazy.
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but, due to Youmu's cold resistance, Kanako didn't play much of a role. I swatted a few flies away with Kourin, and things went well. I can probably take her by the time I reach 15. It was fun trying though. I actually held my ground until she started spamming God Slash.
Kanako can use her physical spell to smack her for some fairly good damage. Iku does throw debuffs around like nobody's business.
EDIT:
Nope, Bloody Papa does huge damage to me even at -50% MAG.
Grinding still on 27F, and I re-equipped Chen. Uh, she's awesome for crab slaughtering with Kimontonku and Phoenix Spread Wings.
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The thing about Iku is that the gap between her MAG and more dedicated attackers like Patchouli, Kaguya, and Marisa will just keep getting wider as you go. In the early game there isn't much difference, but things will change as you progress. I actually spent all of my early level ups (up to around at least floor 16) on Iku's MAG for Team Unappreciated, and wasn't very impressed by that point. She was decent at first, but just fell behind the likes of even Mokou eventually. That's when I switched to a MND build instead. In my defense, almost no one knew just how good Thundercloud Stickleback was at that time (the wiki had the incorrect value of +50% for it), and I thought I was suppose to raise Iku as an attacker. The wiki also said that Iku's defenses weren't notable, which of course I believed until I bothered looking at her growths and realized that she's one of the best MND tanks in the game.
As for Ran, I actually personally prefer raising her as a damage dealer with lots of MAG boosts. She can still buff when necessary, but the sexy damage formula on her spammable composite spell is just too good for me to pass up.
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Alice V3 is evil. That is all.
At the moment, I can take on Orin and Rumia.
Back to 27F for a while. Aiming for lots of Magic Sword "Chaos" and Holy Blade "Sunlight" drops while farming.
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Alice V3 is evil. That is all.
At the moment, I can take on Orin and Rumia.
Back to 27F for a while. Aiming for lots of Magic Sword "Chaos" and Holy Blade "Sunlight" drops while farming.
If you can take anybody on on floor 30, you can take on suwako. The difficulty gap between her and everyone else is a joke, it's like she's v2 still.
You should also try cootiesuke. He moves fast, and can hit hard, but is very easy to get into his 2nd phase, and during his elemental phases, he only has 2 million health, so you can easily kill him outright without elemental shifting at that point. Reisen should also be fairly easy if you have good aoe attackers.
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Oh yeah, I can take down Reisen if I'm cautious.
And then I ran into Chen. I'm glad I managed to escape from her >_>
Cirno's surprisingly dangerous - her "attack" did 60k to an unbuffed Tenshi.
Also other interesting things that have happened on the 30th Floor -
lololol Meiling getting one-shotted by Yuugi.
Meiling getting two-shotted by Chen
Chen in general
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Beat Winner. It was cool and all.
Aya was MVP for being able to switch herself out and deal insane damage. She's up there with Nitori on godlike damage, and she's like Chen is in the maingame in that she can easily switch herself out before danger calls.
Alice and Yuyuko were cool for tanky damage. Flan was cool for good speed and low delay nuke to get in and out since she can't take any hit at all period after she uses Starbow Break a few times. Kaguya/Rumia never even saw the front lines, and Keine only came in to recieve a buff for later that never got needed.
Yukari used her PAR+SPDdown move whenever she didn't need to do anything else, and near the end of the fight, PAR actually HIT. I brought in Alice and Aya and Flan to be buffed by Aya and wail on Winner for awhile, and he only got two moves out after PAR wore off before he kicked the bucket. He didn't get to use a single phase-3 move, which was actually kind of disappointing, since Lightspeed Movement and TIme Stop can wreck you, and Medicine of Life is ridiculous. I wonder how disastrous his Wand of Destruction with DTH:1000 is? It's multitarget...
I'm insane and have nothing else to do*murderedbypescodible* so TIME FOR A NEWGAME+RUN
Hiya team! (http://puu.sh/1HX7) This is mostly using characters I feel like using although I keep wondering why is Yuugi there. Orin was very very close to being in this team, but I needed Minoriko, so I cried and cried and threw her out.Points to anyone who gets the reference.
Only playing to the end of the maingame final boss. Several of these characters are ones I either have never extensively used or just want to use more. Or in Yuuka's case, simply never really got to use period. This should be very challenging; note the LACK OF MEILING (Remi instead), and Minoriko/Yuuka is my only healing (lolyuuka) and Minoriko is basically my only def/mnd buff. I'm starting to realize I might have to build Ran for SP and throw SP recovery items on her to spam her defensive buff, but I want to spam En No Ozuno instead! D'aww.
too busy to start atm though so maybe in a few days
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Still need to grind more before I can comfortably take 30F stuff.
Lol Suwako, who's attacks bounced off of Nitori, for Byakuren's sake.
Also - is Kaguya's Dragon's Necklace supposed to rape a target with 40k mind and 100% buffs?
EDIT:
I'm surprised people don't mention the fact that Nitori, while not a tank, can definitely survive a strong attack or two. Buffed up, she survived a non-boosted Papa's Funeral Washing Machine from Bloody Papa v.2 and Needle Parades from Master Light Wings. Obviously, only one hit, but when she's doing a million per shot then switching out, then it doesn't matter if she occasionally gets hit.
Bloody Papa and Master Light Wings down. Going to farm a bit more for Hibachi-sama and a LOT LOT more for BoC. Then, item farming for Serpent of Chaos, some Kaggy and Okuu beefing up for Hibachi twins, and a ton of farming before WINNER.
During the Master Light Wings battle, I lost Komachi, who was my main tank. So then I literally had Reimu slot 1 tank the thing. Not like it mattered, when she was only taking 800 max from Needle Parade when fully buffed, and 4k or so when at around 60~%. Between Kourin pecking at it, switching in Nitori every now and then for an easy 1 mil, and Yuugi as a defensive pivot (takes no damage when buffed from Needle Parade, and would have done nice damage, but I think MLW has high fire affinity), made it a non-factor.
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Damnit you guys stop being so far ahead of me :(
Do you guys have a way to level up quicker for someone who is on 16F?
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J.O.B.:Keep in mind that sometimes, random battles on the previous floor have pretty much the same EXP payout, while being much easier!
I made two pretty Suika picture sets and attached them to this post. Whee.
edit:while I had a minute of free time I fixed Cirno's LFace to the proportionate size and pixel'd the parts of Wriggle's mouth and eyes that had been erased and were completely transparent, which should help her look a good bit better, although she's still a tad off. I guess maybe I should upload these changes at some point if anyone cares.
Debating whether I should pick up the old Renko picture that had problems with white grains all over her outline and fix it up. The current Maribel picture is... somewhat passable, but the Renko one is pretty bad.
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Papa's washing machine isn't the super nuke that other washing machine attacks are. It's pretty much just like Rinnosuke's heavenly demise nuke. People are all scared of it and think it's some kind of ultimate attack, but it's really not.
And needle parade isn't really supposed to be a massively powerful 1-shot non tanks nuke either. It's more like a "1shot anybody whose weakest stat is defense" nuke.
Anyway, Nitori isn't really tanky or squishy IMO, she's just kinda average in that department, for both physical and magical.
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Eh, true. She gets oneshotted without buffs, however, so I guess it's a moot point.
Hibachi down, Eientei v3 is still too dangerous for me (or I'm not packing the right team).
Time to start boosting Reimu's speed for healspams 8)
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For 30F grinding I had Yukari/Nitori/Kaggy/Nuker(flan)
Nitori nukes, Kaggy makes Nitori nuke again, Yukari makes all three of them nuke again. And the 4thspot nuker nukes at some point before Yukari uses Spiriting Away.
It's pretty awesome. Plus switching Yukari in/out for another quick Spiriting Away takes care of the harder battles. After awhile I could handle almost all the encounters easily. Everything except, like, Mokou and Utsuho, which took longer before I could do easily.
Also I reorganized my party for additional winner kills because there is seriously NO OTHER GAME I WANT TO PLAY AT ALL, so I have nothing to do but grind on 30F more for now. I don't feel like playing my NG+ run yet. I threw Ran/Chen/Rinnosuke into my party and dumped Keine/Flan/Alice. Ran gets 3 rhododendron dresses for composite rape, Chen gets 2 gurthangs and immortalschoolbadge(speeeed...andIranoutofgurthangs) for rape, and Suke gets stuff that helps him tank. And stuff.
I have decided that speedy damage dealers combined with tanky damage dealers, are best damage dealers (plus haxtori) and Ran is even both of those at the same time. There is nothing more I need then this, and enough supports to keep my party going. Meiling/Yukari/Reimu/Iku with Rumia for emergency backup is all I need. Yuyuko and 'suke and Ran are tanky damage dealers. Chen and Aya are rapefast damage dealers that get themselves out before they can get hit. Haxtori is hax and... I dunno what Kaguya being in my party is for other then random battles, honestly. She doesn't seem to be needed in my setup. At all. Other then for randoms, and Dual Hibachi.
edit:nevermind the lost exp makes alice better at being rinnosuke then he is
he'd probably be better/aboutthesame if I hadn't gained 500million exp that he got 10% less of then alice
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Well I started the playthrough an hour ago using Team A(with Renko instead of Sakuya), and I'm not done with floor 1. Haven't fought Chen or Meiling yet. Sorta just working on leveling but I should be fine, especially since Komachi can just loldth them.
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Since you're only going through 20F, this shouldn't be too bad. Especially Yukari, considering Renko breaks Yukari in half :D
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I got another Judas Pain and figured Marisa recovering 280 SP per turn qualifies Master Spark as usable at full power (significantly stronger then even Haxtori) being able to happen often enough to shove her in my party.
Also, upon realizing when I removed Flan that grinding became a lot slower, I gave Iku speedup equips so she moves first and put her in my front lines.
It's all about Nitori now. Iku buffs her, Nitori moves, Kaggy makes Nitori move again, Yukari makes Nitori move AGAIN, teehee
That's enough to finish most encounters on 30F for me right now, because Nitori's damage is just that awesome.
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I love how some characters scale so well into the Plus Disk.
Hell, I could probably have Reimu slot 1 tank, with the fact that she only has 20k less HP than Meiling, and 5k less defense and mind (and swap those stats).
On the other hand, Patchy has slowly declined since the 25th floor sigil guardian. With full buffs, she's oneshotted by Yuuka v.2's Overgrowth, which most of my other characters sponge one or two of with little difficulty.
Speaking of v3, Yuuka, Kourin, Yuyuko and Orin disappointed me, since they were especially difficult bosses for me.
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Similarly, v3 Mokou is surprisingly devastating. Alice is mean but that's understandable.
...those are the only two bosses I bother running from now, actually. Them+Meiling just take too many turns to kill for grinding purposes. Mokou isn't far off from being grindable but Alice will be a long time yet.
...since this is apparently what I do in all my free time now though, I'll get there eventually.
Hold faith with Patchouli! I predict she'll be able to take 0s from Winner's magic attacks and weather his physical rows. 30F random fights are just configured oddly.
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I wonder when it'll be safe for me to take on Chen.
Meiling is no longer two-shotted, but 3-shotted (lol). If she manages to survive Chen's barrage, get buffed and healed, then she's 4-shotted. (by Flight of Idaten - Chen's other attacks are lol).
Then Kimontonku kicks in and Meiling goes back to getting 3-shotted.
Currently, I like grinding on Suwako (c'mon Eggs, drop already), Reisen, Kourin (lololol), Youmu and Rumia. I can handle Alice, Yuugi (barely), Orin, Yuyuko (as long as I don't get sloppy), Tenshi. I might be able to take Eientei version 3 if Renko can nail them all with Galaxy Stop paralysis and Debilitate, and Kaguya dies before she can Stone Bowl.
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Suwako drops Arthuros Gems, not Eggs. Kaguya drops Eggs. Which I haven't managed to get a SINGLE ONE of yet, although I've gotten the drop of everyone else except Meiling, I think... along with like 7 Exoskeletons, 2 Rhododendron Dresses, and 2 more ZUN Hats. I literally cannot make use of anymore ZUN Hats at this point, all my tankier people already use one or two.
Chen only has 6mill HP, and if you want to beat her, you should probably just damagerace it.
What level are you anyway? Based off of Reimu, of course.
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Reimu 382.
Going to grind to around Reimu 400 for Hibachi ver2, then full-on farm 27F for SKP for Kaguya and Okuu.
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Well, IMO, it'd probably be better to grind 27F first, since Kaguya or Flan or whoever can definitely oneshot the randoms on that floor... or, heck, at that level, lots of people might be able to. While, the 30F grinding will only be easier LATER, and not right now.
I switched to 30F grinding at about 410, although waiting longer might have been a good idea. It didn't go badly, at the least, although I was dying sometimes.
My Chen is steadily approaching the point where it only takes one tick to fully recover the delay from Idaten. Heehee! I'm excited. /nerd
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Well, IMO, it'd probably be better to grind 27F first, since Kaguya or Flan or whoever can definitely oneshot the randoms on that floor... or, heck, at that level, lots of people might be able to. While, the 30F grinding will only be easier LATER, and not right now.
I think he's doing 27f afterwards because he already did it for like 5 years straight, is getting bored to tears of it, and wants something else to do before going back to the sweatshop floor.
I know that's what I do >=P
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You know, it's pretty hilarious to use Minoriko as a Slot 1 tank against Overflowing Hellfire to take 0 damage.
Floor 4 Ifrit, btw.
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Herp, already beat Hibachi (who gotloltanked by Reimu, Meiling and Rinnosuke, and chip-damaged to death with Alice).
Beast of Centaurea is still too strong - if only cuz my damage output is too slow. Reimu not being able to take repeated BOMBER!!!! doesn't help either.
Going to try again around Meiling 400.
Hmm. With my offensive builds, I don't have very many bulky nukers. Yuugi can take physical hits, and I think Shiki can take a magic one, but that's probably not enough.
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Rarblerarble
My team doesn't have the synergy I'd like early on, but it's mainly because I don't have the utility that I would normally have (Patchouli + Silent Selene for MND penetration, Cirno for paralysis, Chen in general)
SP is a big issue right now, especially for Mokou and Kaguya and... Well, I'm thinking of ditching the set team for now.
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Ugh, Youmu. Well, I stood no chance at lvl 10, yet at lvl 14 I seemed almost overleveled. Youmu, make up your mind... Then again, this is probably because I was able to take out Myon faster, and 3-4 levels actually matter early on. With Yukari's shield, Meiling only took lol damage from even Karma Wind at the first slot.
Also, I wonder how long it will take me to make it to Alice's male double boss battle? There's no way that... thing is female.
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Rhododendron Dress Get!
Strapping it on Patchy, and if I don't like the results, Iku can use it :D
EDIT:
Extinction Cannon Get!
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Also, I wonder how long it will take me to make it to Alice's male double boss battle? There's no way that... thing is female.
(http://puu.sh/1KFa)
anyway
I keep changing my mind about who I want in my Winnergrinder party every 5 minutes :V Suddenly I'm wondering if throwing in Maribel and/or Reisen for debuffing while they dish out hurt is a good idea! I mean, even 10% debuff to ATK/MAG is significant now... he has 14% chance to get hit per debuff. Hmmmmmmmm.
Then again Renko would fully debuff a stat with one proc, but she wouldn't hurt at the same time. Hmmmm.
Doesn't help that I really like Maribel. I'll go recalculate how good her MND is with significant extra twinking*cough*
Besides, I don't need Chen/Aya/Nitori AND Marisa for switch-in-switch-out attackers. Even if I have maximum efficiency if I've got all four plus my three tanky attackers (Alice/Yuyuko/Ran). It's just that, while it's maximum efficiency damagewise, how much do I REALLY lose by just removing one? I could afford dropping Marisa, really, as she's just a Nitori with slightly higher damage that can't go quite every turn and gets stopped if a Resist spell is used.
Also can't help thinking about how landing that 4% PAR chance with Renko basically means you instantly won the battle. Which only becomes more true the farther into winnergrinding you get, since each tick is slowly worth more.
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Yes, but neither Maribel/Reisen get Galaxy Stop :V
Of course, a 4% chance to stop him isn't worth not doing much damage. If you DO stop him... :V
EDIT:
Back to 27F, which is way more efficient, since I can at the worst two-shot everything with Nitori/Mystia and a second decent attacker (Marisa, Reimu, Yuugi, etc). Kaguya's almost at the point where everything gets oneshotted by Hourai Barrage. All I need is a zerg rush of liliths and I'm good though
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Female Alice reinterpretation
I stand corrected. That drawing actually seemed quite Alice-like. But in game... BARBARIAN ALICE.
Just wiped out 2 dolls, and I'm reminded of how irritating these floors were. And that alone's making me dread 10-12f.
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I stand corrected. That drawing actually seemed quite Alice-like. But in game... BARBARIAN ALICE.
Just wiped out 2 dolls, and I'm reminded of how irritating these floors were. And that alone's making me dread 10-12f.
10-12F wasn't as bad as 7F IMO. Sure, it's easier to get lost, but the experience/skp/boss difficulty ratio is way better
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FINALLY
IT TOOK
ALMOST 2 HOURS
TO GET IT OUT OF THE BACKROUND
AND THEN CLEAN UP THE EDGES FOREVER AND EVER
AND THEN SHRINK IT TO A FOURTH OF IT'S SIZE BECAUSE IT WAS GODDAMN GIGANTIC
AND IT STILL DOESN'T QUITE MATCH
BUT IT BLOWS ALL THE OTHER RENKO PICTURES OUT OF THE WATER (http://puu.sh/1KJy)
it's beautiful *cries tears of joy*
edit:oops I forgot to attach the set to my post gimme a minute
K DONE HERE YOU GO
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if only I could get a decent one of maribel ): then it would be compleeeete
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if only I could get a decent one of maribel ): then it would be compleeeete
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=18248120
OR
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=17384113
you can thank me later~~~ :V
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Man. It's been ages since I last played this.
So I figured I would pick this up again. I'm planning on making a team composed only of my favorite characters, with no concern for what their actual stats are. I took the Touhou character sort again to determine who would be on the team, and ended up with Utsuho, Sakuya, Flandre, Rin, Yukari, Reisen, Remilia, Alice, Suika, Sanae, Mokou, and Komachi. Not the best team, particularly for very early game, as far as I can tell, but I can make do.
But first I have to go find new pictures for each of them. TO DANBOORU!
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FINALLY
IT TOOK
ALMOST 2 HOURS
TO GET IT OUT OF THE BACKROUND
AND THEN CLEAN UP THE EDGES FOREVER AND EVER
AND THEN SHRINK IT TO A FOURTH OF IT'S SIZE BECAUSE IT WAS GODDAMN GIGANTIC
AND IT STILL DOESN'T QUITE MATCH
BUT IT BLOWS ALL THE OTHER RENKO PICTURES OUT OF THE WATER (http://puu.sh/1KJy)
it's beautiful *cries tears of joy*
edit:oops I forgot to attach the set to my post gimme a minute
K DONE HERE YOU GO
A recolor of Iku's? Looks great!
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*Stares at it*
Oh my god... it really DOES look almost exactly the same.
The tie even seems to flutter the same manner that Iku's scarf thing does.
The ribbon being placed differently is like, the only significant thing. I mean the eyes are a little different but yeah.
edit:*blinks* No, no they aren't. The eyes look the EXACT SAME.
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*Stares at it*
Oh my god... it really DOES look almost exactly the same.
The tie even seems to flutter the same manner that Iku's scarf thing does.
The ribbon being placed differently is like, the only significant thing. I mean the eyes are a little different but yeah.
edit:*blinks* No, no they aren't. The eyes look the EXACT SAME.
As does the hair! Perhaps you're better off just using the images I just linked to for you a few minutes ago? Like the one with Renko and Maribel? Or are they too poor quality? They were the only ones I could find on pixiv.
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The one with both of them was... I tried it a while ago (I've seen it before) and yes, it looked pretty bad ingame.
The other Maribel one looked good and would be considerable, although it wouldn't match the other pictures in my set.
Besides, even if Renko does look almost exactly like Iku, it's different enough where it isn't really bothering and it still looks good!
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But first I have to go find new pictures for each of them. TO DANBOORU!
This is the real game
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This is the real game
Quote for truth.
I need moar Awakened Exoskeletons. Such awesomeness... :D
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OK, since I was bored of my team on my last playthrough, I decided to start over using the NG+ save file and for some reason, I'm encountering the "recruit character = reset level and skill levels" again. Is there some sort of way I can fix this without having to start the playthrough over? Copying Save_NaN does nothing (I even tried copying over the entire save folder from the Special Disk, then my Save1 folder over it again - still no dice).
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k so I forgot Shikieiki has a really cool debuff spell, instantly adding MAG-based Shikieiki to my party to spam Wandering Sin (-20% debuff to all stats plus if I'm lucky, PAR which RUINS winner!)
ALSO, something that's... only relevant if you're one of those weirdos who wants to beat up winner a whole bunch because you have nothing else you feel like playing!
Winner has exactly ONE magic attack without an element, and it's only in his third phase. So, people without good MND can just cheese up magical resistance against him by pumping affinities instead. Physical Reactors from Dual Hibachi v2 are godlike for this! Whabang, anyone you want can now become a back-slot tanky character to fight Winner with. Sorta. I'll probably do this with Reisen for more debuffing!
Also added Renko to my party. Maribel/Reisen are pending. Debuffdebuffdebuffdebuff. The chanciness involved will help keep it interesting, plus when I'm not unlucky, well, at this point in the game having even 20% offensive stat debuff on winner will KILL his damage.
ANOTHER THING TO SAY. This is about our dear Maeribaeri. You know how her nukes simply don't deal quite as much damage as other people can, and she can take a MAG hit but isn't exactly durable, and... well, her SPD is actually quite nice due to her self-buff. There's a good reason! Her purpose is that she deals... not really much less damage then other nukers, while providing significant debuffs to ATK/MAG/DEF/MND! The debuffs more then make up for the not-HUGELY-lower damage then a normal nuker would have, so she deals decent damage in addition to cool debuffing, and if you play cards right she can stay out buffing herself and spamming her low-delay debuff due to her above-average buffed speed.
...Maribel really is similar to Reisen though. Debuffer with decent damage and a self-buff, above-average-speed. Maribel has better SPD and damage and MUCH better MND in exchange for a high-delay selfbuff.
Also considering babying Okuu with a small amount of SKP in MAG and using her to help me farm physical reactors for everyone along with Kaggy. But I'll probably grind like 100 more levels or so before I do that, simply so it goes faster. Also will be getting Machine God Lucifers! Everyone needs at least one of those! :V
edit:I took Maribel from the Special Disk database and made a LFace that matches the other stuff better. Honestly... it doesn't look horribly out of place with the alphes pictures. I did fill in the white gapes of her face with a slightly more skin-color, which helped. attaching
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Also considering babying Okuu with a small amount of SKP in MAG and using her to help me farm physical reactors for everyone along with Kaggy. But I'll probably grind like 100 more levels or so before I do that, simply so it goes faster. Also will be getting Machine God Lucifers! Everyone needs at least one of those! :V
edit:I took Maribel from the Special Disk database and made a LFace that matches the other stuff better. Honestly... it doesn't look horribly out of place with the alphes pictures. I did fill in the white gapes of her face with a slightly more skin-color, which helped. attaching
Okuu, Rumia and Kaggy are probably going to be my only attackers for the fight, and everyone else is going to be a supporting unit.
edit:
trimmed quote :D
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oh god did you have to quote the entire post
anyway Rumia isn't really that useful for damage in that fight considering her low damage output with DSotM. Her Moonlight Ray is a decent nuke and Demarcation is great heal support, but DSotM is really only useful for LAST DITCH PANIC on Kedamagrammaton and on certain random fights.
She could heal as a support unit, though! :V Yeah I pretty much only used Kaggy for damage in that fight.
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oh god did you have to quote the entire post
anyway Rumia isn't really that useful for damage in that fight considering her low damage output with DSotM. Her Moonlight Ray is a decent nuke and Demarcation is great heal support, but DSotM is really only useful for LAST DITCH PANIC on Kedamagrammaton and on certain random fights.
She could heal as a support unit, though! :V Yeah I pretty much only used Kaggy for damage in that fight.
More than anything, I don't wanna deal with a berserk Hibachi, and chip damage is still damage :V
Also, while Wandering Sin does have great incentive to make MAG Shiki, I think gear and skill points should be plenty. She has about 60k for me, which is a little below what my pure-MAG pure growths have.
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Does Wandering Sin do good damage even with full MAG build? Its formula looks really underwhelming, especially since it has a post-use gauge of 14%, and Eiki is neither particularly fast nor durable. Besides, the status part is useful enough even without damage, and sacrificing the game's strongest defense ignoring move for a REALLY costly multi-target attack with no special attributes and a status platform seems to be kind of a crappy trade-off for me.
Also, does anyone know how to solve the "recruit character = reset character level and skill levels" problem without starting over?
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This game.
It's so awesome.
I'm in the middle of my second playthrough of the main game (no I didn't touch Plus Disk) at the moment, and I still love it.
The only annoying thing is rearranging my party every time I get someone new who I know is good. :x I think I have a decent one right now, though.
Are spoilers even necessary?
ATK Remilia 48
ATK Sakuya 51
MND Reimu 55
MAG Alice 52
Equal DEF/MND Tenshi 50
MAG Reisen 50
MND Minoriko 55
ATK Nitori 51
MND Patchy 49
MND Iku 52
ATK Yuugi 50
MAG Ran 48
All of my skill levels are around 35. I'm just past Eientei, too, so at least the most annoying part is over.
At least until post-main game pre-plus disk. :V
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@RegalStar:The thing is, I already beat the game. The only thing I have to think about if I keep playing is the fights with ***Winner***, and using Shikieiki for Last Judgement means I won't be using Shiki. The debuff, however, I might consider, so I'm going to try it on for size. The damage isn't the point, although getting the damage I can out of it is nice.
Plus Shikieiki using Last Judgment does worse damage then a lot of my other choices anyway, and is less durable.
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Well, if you're purely using Eiki for the sake of Wandering Sin you might as well try to build her for durability and speed, since you're not going to do much damage with it either way...
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If it does a completely insignificant amount of damage, then Renko/Maribel/Reisen does that job better and Shiki is out.
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Also, does anyone know how to solve the "recruit character = reset character level and skill levels" problem without starting over?
Intensive Cheat Engine hacking. Which I have no idea how to use :V
Plus Shikieiki using Last Judgment does worse damage then a lot of my other choices anyway, and is less durable.
In terms of nukes, Last Judgment should more-or-less be your second/third strongest reliable nuke, because Shiki's got massive ATK and it ignores defense, and has a huge multiplier. Suika, Yuugi, ATK Komachi, Suwako, Yuyuko, Mokou and possibly Patchy should only outdamage her with nukes if elements work in their favor AND the boss's defense isn't that high. Oh and possibly Flan with 3 Gurthangs :V
Of course, Nitori does such good damage by yourself, she might be the only fragile nuke you need. I'm not kidding - Megawatt Linear Gun does more damage than KOi3S does to a fire-weak target, despite Yuugi having higher attack, assuming equal buff levels.
Not counting Master Sparks/Flan's Composites due to the fact that they are unreliable.
Well, if you're purely using Eiki for the sake of Wandering Sin you might as well try to build her for durability and speed, since you're not going to do much damage with it either way...
To be fair, she can spam Bar of the Ten Kings for reasonable damage. Of course, Mystia's Midnight Chorus Master has the same multiplier, Mystia's faster, comparatively durable, and MCM can paralyze and costs a third as much.
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In terms of nukes, Last Judgment should more-or-less be your second/third strongest reliable nuke
aya getting in 3 hits and then switching herself out before Winner can move begs to differ :]
And Yuyuko is only a little bit weaker and is REALLY durable, and has low delay(for a nuke of power on a durable person).
Flan's speed and low delay means she can switch herself out after hitting sometimes, saving someone else a turn, and she can very definitely outdamage Shiki.
And Marisa with 3 Judas Pains, especially if I bother to lay a speed buff on her, can Master Spark at full or near full power pretty often, actually. But I did end up removing her from my party anyway.
I'm not going to say Shikieiki using Last Judgement isn't one of the games high-end nukes, though, as it definitely is, and using her for Last Judgment nuking is a fine thought. I'm just thinking that in my situation there are better choices.
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Intensive Cheat Engine hacking. Which I have no idea how to use :V
Screw that then, I'm starting over. I'm only on floor 2 anyways.
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aya getting in 3 hits and then switching herself out before Winner can move begs to differ :]
And Yuyuko is only a little bit weaker and is REALLY durable, and has low delay(for a nuke of power on a durable person).
Flan's speed and low delay means she can switch herself out after hitting sometimes, saving someone else a turn, and she can very definitely outdamage Shiki.
And Marisa with 3 Judas Pains, especially if I bother to lay a speed buff on her, can Master Spark at full or near full power pretty often, actually. But I did end up removing her from my party anyway.
I'm not going to say Shikieiki using Last Judgement isn't one of the games high-end nukes, though, as it definitely is, and using her for Last Judgment nuking is a fine thought. I'm just thinking that in my situation there are better choices.
Flan beats everyone via pure attack stat :D
Except Nitori. Nobody except Defense/Mind ignoring attacks on Hibachi twins beats Nitori :V
Aya's isn't so much a nuke so much as it is lots of medium power attacks in a short amount of time (like a precision carpet bomb), and if Aya can outdamage Shiki, I'd imagine Chen might be able to do it too. Yuyuko definitely has a durability edge, but Shiki's got workable mind. Not great, but workable.
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Huh. Seems like Mystia is not quite as fragile as I keep thinking she is; I missed switching her out against the last phase of Serpent of Chaos, and while I was expecting her to get OHKOd by Ether Flare, she somehow managed to survive both it and Exhalatio. Of course, she then died to the following Demon-Slashing Dance, but still :V
Also why won't the Machine God Lucifer drop already D:
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if Aya can outdamage Shiki, I'd imagine Chen might be able to do it too
I hoped so, but Chen seems to be doing a fraction of Aya's damage, although due to how speed scales, she IS a bit better at getting turns in.
It may have a bit to do with the fact that Chen got 10% less exp then Aya out of like 700m exp, and since Chen levels so incredibly fast, she probably lost like 60 levels.
Yuyuko's MND is surprisingly high, by the way. Reimu has about 242k, Iku has 250k, yet Yuyuko still chalks in at about 200k. For comparison to people not using MND based builds, Meiling has less then 100k, and Alice has 160k.
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I seem to have reached the point where the only threatening attacks Serpent of Chaos has are its single-target physical nukes; this last battle it didn't use any of them, and as a result I got through without losing a single character. :V Still no drop, though.
Also having two people rotate a team of Nitori/Flandre/some other nuker in and out results in some pretty crazy DPS during the last phase. It's interesting how Flandre is 40 levels behind the rest of my team due to me not having used her in a while (just realized that I never use Patchy nowadays due to her abysmal speed, so I thought I might as well exchange her for someone more useful), and she still manages to have an ATK stat that's quite a bit higher than any other stat on my other characters.
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I seem to have reached the point where the only threatening attacks Serpent of Chaos has are its single-target physical nukes; this last battle it didn't use any of them, and as a result I got through without losing a single character. :V Still no drop, though.
Also having two people rotate a team of Nitori/Flandre/some other nuker in and out results in some pretty crazy DPS during the last phase. It's interesting how Flandre is 40 levels behind the rest of my team due to me not having used her in a while (just realized that I never use Patchy nowadays due to her abysmal speed, so I thought I might as well exchange her for someone more useful), and she still manages to have an ATK stat that's quite a bit higher than any other stat on my other characters.
Her ATK growth is about as egregious as Komachi's HP growth. With two Extinction Cannons and a Longsword "Ringil", my Flan clocks in at 185k attack, compared double Gurthang + Armads Nitori witht 125k
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Screw that then, I'm starting over. I'm only on floor 2 anyways.
I thought that nonsense was fixed with 3.02 or whatever the newest version is.
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I thought that nonsense was fixed with 3.02 or whatever the newest version is.
Apparently, not if I simply copy the folder as save1 and replace the old one.
Well, this time I completely ditched my old save folder and copied a new one from the special disk, and then put in the NG+ save file as save1. Hopefully there's no more bugs.
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:D
[attach=1]
Took ~10 attempts, but +300% to all stats and other assorted boosts are well worth it. It feels somewhat fitting that this was another no-death battle, as well.
Next target - Hibachi twins v2 and their Physical Reactor. Approximately when can I start thinking about taking them on? Currently at Reimu level 484.
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I always cringe when I see people's thLaby using the ugly thin text instead of the pretty and voluptous text >: But to get it you pretty much have to boot it with applocale or set your computer to use Japanese as a second language, so... oh well.
Next target - Hibachi twins v2 and their Physical Reactor. Approximately when can I start thinking about taking them on? Currently at Reimu level 484.
Right now. At your level they should be pretty nondangerous until one hits Berserk mode, really.
Anyway, I did some thinking in my head at school, and Wandering Sin should be stronger then Reisen's Discarder if nothing else, and while Shiki is slower then Reisen by a significant bit, she's more durable, the debuff is stronger, and it can hit PAR. So I'm keeping Shikieiki. Also going to remove Chen for Maribel, who can lay strong debuffs while still having pretty good damage!
I'm kinda tempted to switch someone for Mystia and spend the whole battle debuffing him and trying to hit PAR while dealing decent damage. Because hitting a strong PAR pretty much ends the fight. Suwako would work too, but Mystia would be cooler and faster and more durable, so.
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Apparently, not if I simply copy the folder as save1 and replace the old one.
Well, this time I completely ditched my old save folder and copied a new one from the special disk, and then put in the NG+ save file as save1. Hopefully there's no more bugs.
Update: Apparently, that glitch only affects select characters, because Meiling wasn't suffering that problem but Cirno is. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm using the downloaded NG+ file instead of properly unlocking it.
Does anyone have a save file just before they beat Winner that they can give to me?
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Well then that was almost kind of anticlimactic. :V Dual Hibachis v2 flawless victory and drop gotten on my first attempt, and they didn't even use Dual Funeral Washing Machine once. Took forever, though, since I pretty much only used Kaguya for damage until the first one went down.
Also dear lord Meiling with a Machine God Lucifer is the best tank ever.
I always cringe when I see people's thLaby using the ugly thin text instead of the pretty and voluptous text >:
...I didn't even know there was another font. I can't seem to get it to appear even when running the game through Applocale, though...
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You might not even have the font :V I don't seem to remember it coming with the game. For some reason. At least not on the OLD download, I dunno about Special Disk. Don't really worry about it, I guess, it's a bother.
Although I'm really glad mine works for whatever reason.
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K look here's the font, you need to put it in the Fonts folder in Control Panel.
And then, if it doesn't work, try applocale and it theoretically should. Theoretically. It only takes 5 seconds to throw it in the fonts folder anyway, I suppose.
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Me not having the font seems to have been the problem, yes - after installing it, it shows up just fine. Thank you!
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I want to try MAG Renko for shits and giggles. Currently, my defensive Renko tanks fairly well, but MAG Renko can deal lolbad damage and makes Charge unusable.
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Out of curiosity, which characters show up on you guys' save files? I have Nitori, due to using her to clear trash throughout pretty much the entire game, and my first (unfinished) playthrough had Cirno up until some time through the massive 30F grind wall.
I want to try MAG Renko for shits and giggles. Currently, my defensive Renko tanks fairly well, but MAG Renko can deal lolbad damage and makes Charge unusable.
Solo Renko run gogogo :getdown:
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My save file portrait character is almost always Mystia. I also had Orin for Team Unappreciated, because I used her extensively when grinding on 27F. Needle Mountain's piercing damage formula happens to be pretty effective against Nightmare Cancers.
Anyway, I did some thinking in my head at school, and Wandering Sin should be stronger then Reisen's Discarder if nothing else, and while Shiki is slower then Reisen by a significant bit, she's more durable, the debuff is stronger, and it can hit PAR. So I'm keeping Shikieiki. Also going to remove Chen for Maribel, who can lay strong debuffs while still having pretty good damage!
You'd think that, but practically speaking Reisen should never be using Discarder without at least +60% in all stats, thanks to how easily spammable Grand Patriot's Elixir is. The speed boost from GPE more or less overwrites what little delay you spend to use it, so its only real drawback is the SP cost, which shouldn't matter at all in the postgame. She also gets half-decent durability when her DEF/MND boosts are always over 60%. Factoring in her buffs, my Reisen's defenses are comparable to DEF/MND build Keine pretty much 100% of the time.
I gave my Machine God Lucifer (dropped on 27th kill!) to Reisen for the WINNER fight, and she was easily my second best damage dealer, beaten only by Nitori.
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It was Remilia up until floor 7, until Meiling took her place. I used Meiling for random encounters up until Komachi came along, and even then Komachi saw less use than Meiling.
I will also vouch for Reisen being much more effective for debuff spam via Discarder. My Reisen is woefully underused, and once buffs are in place, she's way better against physical attacks than Shiki, and slightly worse than an unbuffed Shiki against magic. Note that I also have no good gear on Reisen - Shiki has some floor 30 stuff.
Shiki's also unlikely to be a recipient for defensive buffs with my playstyle (I use her as a second Nitori).
I'd also like to nominate Alice as being one of the most reliable characters throughout the game, being only dangerous to use against Eientei, and useful practically in every single battle in the game besides that.
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About the portrait on save file thing, it was Rumia for maingame, Nitori for Plus-Disk, and turned into Kaguya around 27/30F grinding.
Parallaxal:Self-buffs are less useful when I've got Iku and Yukari out almost all the time to keep everyone's stats in tip-top shape :V Plus Reimu popping in whenever needed.
Also, about Reisen's defenses, yeah, they get around what Keine's are; that is, what unbuffed Keine's are :x That Reisen can keep her stats at 80~100% buffed DOES help a lot, though. Plus since Winner almost exclusively has elemental magic for MND-hitting attacks, giving Reisen two Physical Reactors would help a crapload.
Being able to pray for PAR off Shiki helped in her favor. But I might end up using -both-, really. Between Maribel, Reisen, and Shikieiki, plus Renko at like the start of the battle to get the debuffs rolling... yeah. His lowered offensive stats and speed would really help out the stayoutibility of those three, plus if I manage to score a hit of PAR from Shikieiki, BOOM there goes 1/4th of his HP at LEAST.
If I get ultra lucky and a rarely-used Galaxy Stop hits PAR then I instantly win :]
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if I manage to score a hit of PAR from Renko, I win.
Fix'd. Hard bosses are so much easier when they have no turn for 10 of mine :D
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Nyeh, I almost want to start grinding for Physical Reactors NOW since it's pretty much an instant gate to tankability for anyone against Winner. As long as they're near the back so they don't get hit by a physical in the front.
Edit:Ran is going to be my replacement Alice, I've decided while trying to rearrange my team, so Maribel will take Alice's spot. Ran certainly does WAY more damage then Alice will, and has better defensive stats in all 3 spots.
Reisen will replace Kaggy once I don't need Kaggy for randoms anymore.
Or I could get Reisen NOW and Maribel later... hmm.
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...if Meiling with a Machine God Lucifer is an amazing tank, Meiling with a Machine God Lucifer and a Physical Reactor is an even better one. :V 130k DEF and 700-800 in all affinities now means that anything that isn't non-elemental magic or ignores defence barely even scratches her.
I just wish that the 30F randoms wouldn't be so stingy with their good drops. D:
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I wish 30F wasn't so stingy with the drops, period. The more useless things can be sold for SKP :V
Edit: Wiped against Yukari v.3 because Dual Colorful Light HITS FOR 100K+ at her last phase if I can't end her quickly enough.
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I wish 30F wasn't so stingy with the drops, period. The more useless things can be sold for SKP :V
Edit: Wiped against Yukari v.3 because Dual Colorful Light HITS FOR 100K+ at her last phase if I can't end her quickly enough.
Yeah, yukari v3 is pretty tough, and dual colorful light is always a brutal nuke, pretty much anybody who has and uses it kills people with it.
About all this physical reactor talk, personally I'm dubious that a reactor would help most characters defend against most attacks more than the MGL. Unless they are komachi, suwako, yuugi (vs magic) or flan or something. I mean the elemental resistance thing diminishes quite a bit by that point in the game, and the math for it is applied BEFORE mnd/def reduction to boot, unless it has some kind of hidden stat or something.
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Well, the Physical Reactor boosts all of my Meiling's affinities from 300-350 to 550-600 (misremembered earlier :V), which is after all a reduction almost by half of every single elemental attack. And since it just so happens that almost all strong magic attacks have an element, and Meiling's MND not exactly being her strongest stat... yeah, I'd say it does a difference. It's kind of hard to compare since I can't refight the Serpent of Chaos for quite some while, though.
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About all this physical reactor talk, personally I'm dubious that a reactor would help most characters defend against most attacks more than the MGL.
Basically ANYONE can have the damage they take by elemental attacks reduced by... well, it varies depending on affinities before applying the reactor or two, but EASILY reduce the damage by half. Realistically reduce it by two thirds.
This is drastically important for anyone who does not have high mnd, as it should easily reduce damage to a heal-able amount. Reisen, with her bad MND but decent DEF (decent considering her selfbuffing) would probably be pretty easy to keep out 24/7 if she had a MGL and two Physical Reactors. And they should be able to bump Shiki and Maribel up to a status where they can take hits well enough, too, so I can spam debuffs yay :V
This is stuff that doesn't matter unless you're going to beat Winner more then once, though. Seriously. You can't even GET more then 1 until you do so.
The main problem is just that I'm going to be grinding up like 16 Physical Reactors and 20 Machine God Lucifers :V Once the bosses don't take too long to kill, at least. Hmm, I wonder if I can get buffed Rumia to deal 1m damage with DSotM yet... with my overleveling, they can probably stay out and take insignificant damage from Dual Hibachis (Kaggy could forever ago), so Utsuho/Kaggy/Rumia could stay out with Keine constantly at 100% MAG buff spamming their attacks.
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I'm sure it's always been DEF/MND in the attack formulae BEFORE affinities take their further reduction. It just makes more sense that way and is probably better coding.
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Yeah, I was pretty sure it worked that way too. Especially considering the ways formulas work (aka not how they look on the wiki, where they've been simplified for ease)
Plus, if affinities were factored before DEF/MND, it'd be way too easy to pump affinities (or equip stuff like Physical Reactors) and start taking 0s from magic even if your MND sucks.
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Is it just me or did Mokou get screwed over by Yuugi, Reisen and Patchy?
Short of Fujiyama Volcano, the other three can outdo her in damage and/or surviving power (pure physical for Yuugi, magic for Patchy and both for Reisen, especially once her buffs kick in).
And Fujiyama Volcano gets screwed over by Patchy and Yuugi. Wu is admittedly decent.
if she had slightly better magic or staying power, then maybe she'd stand out better. That or if her spells did more damage/cost less.
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I'm sure it's always been DEF/MND in the attack formulae BEFORE affinities take their further reduction. It just makes more sense that way and is probably better coding.
Yeah, that's what I meant, moment of derp.
As for 2/3s being realistic and 1/2 being an exageration.. wtf?! Sorry, but no. If that's true, sounds like you're being way too stingy with our skillpoints into your affinities. My elemental affinities take about 1/3 of the sp to level up than my other used stats, and they are high enough that my affinities for each of my characters range from 240 (the absolute lowest) to 500, where everyone seemingly has an average of something like 300. Additionally, I'm only Reimu 430 atm, not winner-ready, they will probably grow still, and I don't have a single piece of uber 30F gear which will likely pump those averages higher still once I get some exoskeletons, and some high stat gear to re place others and may be substituted for more defensive stuff. Granted my #s include the gear they are wearing, which may include zunhats or karen devices or whatever, but the level of improvement from a physical reactor and a zunhat or anima crystal isn't nearly as good as that of a MGL and a gantz suit or magical sword chaos or whatever, so if we bring up substitution, you will still be better off overall dumping stat gear for a MGL and using empty spots for older tier affinity gear like anima crystals than you would the other way around.
ESPECIALLY since the MGL has 2/5 of the affinities of the physical reactor anyway.
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To be fair, Komachi, Youmu and Yuugi would benefit tremendously from Physical Reactors, since their mind sucks immensely, so every point of affinity can be huge.
Well, Chen too, but she shouldn't be taking a hit, now should she? I've had her take precisely one hit, and live to tell the tale afterwards.
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Is it just me or did Mokou get screwed over by Yuugi, Reisen and Patchy?
Short of Fujiyama Volcano, the other three can outdo her in damage and/or surviving power (pure physical for Yuugi, magic for Patchy and both for Reisen, especially once her buffs kick in).
And Fujiyama Volcano gets screwed over by Patchy and Yuugi. Wu is admittedly decent.
if she had slightly better magic or staying power, then maybe she'd stand out better. That or if her spells did more damage/cost less.
Mokou is inferior to Yuugi and Patchy in boss battles, but she is a lot better at trash clearing because of her much faster speed. She also compares favourably with most other good trash clearers because Fujiyama Volcano is FIR-elemental, and FIR is the best trash clearing element in the game. Really, if there's anyone who screws her over, it would be Orin, who's faster still and has a similarly powerful FIR-elemental spell, but multi-target FIR-elemental spells are just so awesome for trash clearing that it never hurts to bring two.
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They can take turns being in the active party.
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Mokou is inferior to Yuugi and Patchy in boss battles, but she is a lot better at trash clearing because of her much faster speed.
IMO, if someone is only good for trash clearing, they are not worth having in the party at all. Waste of SKP and whoever would have that spot for boss battles is losing exp; the boss battles are what you worry about, not random battles.(mostly)
And this is coming from someone who isn't in the group of people who just run from most encounters on 17F/lastplusdiskfloors. I never even found 17F randoms difficult enough that I'd want to be running from them, those people confused me ):
Of course, not that we HEAR about those people anymore, since pretty much everyone has already taken their first trips through 17F and it's old news that never gets mentioned.
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And this is coming from someone who isn't in the group of people who just run from most encounters on 17F/lastplusdiskfloors. I never even found 17F randoms difficult enough that I'd want to be running from them, those people confused me ):
On my first playthru, 17f wasn't anything special, nor was it on my last one. But in one of my middle ones it was nearly impossible to survive reliably. I think (don't quite remember) it was a party that had absolutely no form of multitarget physical attacks. I had a hell of a time dealing with those gem thingies that cast ballistic light or piercing light, and had 50 billion mnd but no defense. I think I may have had Kanako in that run, but she could not outspeed them even with some gear rearranging, so they'd still nuke my ass off before her turn.
But yeah, if you have chen, aya, mystia, etc in your party, they wouldn't be a big deal. As for the other trash, I find them to be fairly meh.
One thing that confuses me is the number of complaints about gold sorceresses. Yeah they got some strong nukes, and yes they aren't very squishy, but they aren't really extreme in any catagory, and they certainly aren't speedy, so you should be able to fire off some of your most powerful nukes with your slowest characters even, plus even if they move, I find their spells are rarely deadly because I tend to have alot of high mnd characters. Aya, chen, etc would get creamed for sure yes, but Patchy would nearly take 0s, and any tanky character like Remi, Reimu (or pure tanks obviously) should survive fine too.
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Someone do a run through only using mandatory characters and not optional characters :D
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IMO, if someone is only good for trash clearing, they are not worth having in the party at all. Waste of SKP and whoever would have that spot for boss battles is losing exp; the boss battles are what you worry about, not random battles.(mostly)
And this is coming from someone who isn't in the group of people who just run from most encounters on 17F/lastplusdiskfloors. I never even found 17F randoms difficult enough that I'd want to be running from them, those people confused me ):
Of course, not that we HEAR about those people anymore, since pretty much everyone has already taken their first trips through 17F and it's old news that never gets mentioned.
IMO, this is only true during the main game. In post game, it seems to me that it's more efficient to have a boss-killing team and a trash clearing team. Sure, your other characters are receiving less EXP per battle, but when you can plow through more battles in a faster amount of time, you end up being more efficient overall.
And SkP are not a problem once you can handle 27F with relative ease (AKA when you get there).
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Someone do a run through only using mandatory characters and not optional characters :D
Is that NG+ or no? Also, does Maribel/Renko count as mandatory characters? (you do need the maribel v2 star to advance past the beginning of 27F)
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No NG+ just a normal run through only recruiting and using characters you have to beat such as Alice and Youmu.
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No NG+ just a normal run through only recruiting and using characters you have to beat such as Alice and Youmu.
You don't have to beat the five characters you start with ^^" And in that case, what about Ran and Maribel? You technically have to beat *something* to get Ran, and you technically have to beat Maribel at some point, even though it's not right before you recruit her.
Other than those, you get Chen, Cirno, Youmu, Alice, Reisen, Eirin, Yukari, Rinnosuke, and Shikieiki. The lineup doesn't actually look that bad, although not having a full party can make floors really annoying, and Eiki needs loads of overlevelling for the team to be able to kill her before Last Judgment kills too many people.
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Beast of Centaurea v.2 DOWN!
Lost Iku to Wave Blast and Bombbeeeeer! spam, but Reimu tanked and healed like a champ when Iku went down. In fact, the only reason why Reimu is not my main tank is due to having 20k less HP than Meiling. She has better defense than Meiling's MND, and her MND is comparable to Meiling's Defense.
I think I have figured out the Breakaway form's attack pattern:
Attack 1 - Wave Blast x 2 to front row, Wave Blast x 1 to back slot, 3-6 Bombbeeeers!
Attack 2 - Needle Parade
Attack 3 - Ultimate Light Cannon
Attack 4 - Napalm Flare (or was it Flame Blast?)
Repeat
I think the last 3 can be in random order though.
Oh for Orin vs. Mokou - Orin also has better potential damage due to having better ATK than Mokou's MAG. I also hated 17F, so I grinded on 16F to compensate.
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Lol obviously you need the first 5 characters.
Basically do a run where you only beat and use the characters required to complete the game with(+first 5 characters)
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Wewt. Iku is the first character I got that hit 100k in a non-HP defensive stat. :3
Need to farm Rinnosuke v3 for Awakened Exoskeletons. Throw one of those on to everyone :V
I'm also happy with the amount of Gurthangs I'm getting on 27F. Nitori has two, Eiki has one, Flan has one and Mystia has one. Yuugi needs one, and I wanna get another one for Flan and Eiki.
Should I farm Ribbons on 20F?
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I don't know how you guys have like 2 gurthangs on one character. I personally HATE having a character not pretty much immune to every status ailment. I tend to wear my equipment just so that they have 30+ resistance to every ailment, then try to work on stats from there.
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My philosophy on that is that if a character never takes a hit, there's no need for them to be immune to status ailments (except for PAR because Iku). People like Flandre shouldn't be out when the enemy attacks anyway, so I can just focus on boosting their offense. And since I use Meiling as my main tank, someone getting affected by PSN or SIL doesn't matter all too much, since I can just heal it right away; I just need to make sure that the attackers with good enough defences to be left out during the enemy's turn can't be DTHed. Of course, it helps that said attackers include Mokou, Kaguya and Orin, who all have pretty good base DTH resist.
Then again, I try to never leave a non-tank out during a boss's turn anyway (I have a tanking team of Meiling/Yukari/Reimu/Iku, with Renko for backup) unless I absolutely have to, so :V
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My philosophy on that is that if a character never takes a hit, there's no need for them to be immune to status ailments (except for PAR because Iku). People like Flandre shouldn't be out when the enemy attacks anyway, so I can just focus on boosting their offense. And since I use Meiling as my main tank, someone getting affected by PSN or SIL doesn't matter all too much, since I can just heal it right away; I just need to make sure that the attackers with good enough defences to be left out during the enemy's turn can't be DTHed. Of course, it helps that said attackers include Mokou, Kaguya and Orin, who all have pretty good base DTH resist.
Then again, I try to never leave a non-tank out during a boss's turn anyway (I have a tanking team of Meiling/Yukari/Reimu/Iku, with Renko for backup) unless I absolutely have to, so :V
Sorta this.
Everyone who's not going to be active when the boss gets its turn doesn't need anything other than PAR for Stickleback. If the boss uses status, then I make sure they have 30+ for the status necessary, and work from there. I do try and make sure any characters I have out during the boss's attack are PSN/DTH/SIL immune, and hopefully DBF immune too, but that's less important. Healing status can make me lose momentum, depending on who it is.
Nitori's almost never taking a hit unless I make a silly mistake, so I really don't care that she's not immune to anything not called PAR anyways.
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Yeah, I use Longsword Ringil or Armads(Both give tons of PAR resist) and then two Gurthangs on my physical glass cannon characters. Except Mystia can get away with an Immortal School Badge instead which is better, and now that I'm starting to get several of them, double Immortal School Badge and a Gurthang is best; did that on Aya since it increases her SPD by like 1k.
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oops I broke it (http://puu.sh/1Pod)
and no she never got to summon the Grand Tetragrammaton :V
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oops I broke it (http://puu.sh/1Pod)
and no she never got to summon the Grand Tetragrammaton :V
what the hell
That's amazing. :o
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They all have like 100m extra HP, plus I think they regenerate it all every time Maribel moves.
Once I killed Maribel, I had to just whittle down the wing's HP for a few minutes until they went down :V
Reimu lv685.
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They all have like 100m extra HP, plus I think they regenerate it all every time Maribel moves.
Once I killed Maribel, I had to just whittle down the wing's HP for a few minutes until they went down :V
Reimu lv685.
Good show. On another note, does anyone have the SWR Marisa that's missing from the alphes pack?
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Missing? But I MADE the alphes pack and it's th-oh you probably got the /other/ pack
sure gimme a sec and I'll edit her into this post
edit:k done :3
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Missing? But I MADE the alphes pack and it's th-oh you probably got the /other/ pack
sure gimme a sec and I'll edit her into this post
edit:k done :3
thanks bro.
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I finally started playing Etrian Odyssey for the first time this week (I'm starting with the 3rd game). Now I can appreciate Touhou Labyrinth in a whole new way. Makes me want to play it again.
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27F farming is so much more efficient now that Nitori, Mystia and Orin can hurt the crabs and I don't have to rely on defense ignoring attacks. Alice too, but Return Inanimateness isn't efficient enough.
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IMO using Kaggy and/or Flan, who should be capable of 1-shotting the encounters (Or at least 2-shotting with someone else backing up via decently powered multihit) for farming 27F is best. Then you can finish all encounters within 2 turns when Reimu isn't even a high level yet, and in Flan's case, probably start oneshotting everything quickly; though, her MP must be cared for with an Arthuros Gem or somesuch.
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How do I change the BP of my party members? The cheat table from download doesn't have it, and I don't want to spend two hours killing things with Reimu and Meiling just so I can fight Flandre.
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I finally started playing Etrian Odyssey for the first time this week (I'm starting with the 3rd game). Now I can appreciate Touhou Labyrinth in a whole new way. Makes me want to play it again.
You mean you stopped wanting to play it?! blasphemy!
Seriously though, I too played Etrian odyssey after Touhou labyrinth, and really think Touhou Labyrinth was an improvement in many ways. Though I haven't tried 3 yet, just 1 and 2. I did like the shopping experience in Etrian odyssey though, though I prefer the gear roles in labyrinth more, it's more customizeable.
Learning all spells from the get go sounds dumb on paper, but it also is an improvement IMO. But I do miss foes, it's nice having extra challenging enemies that aren't quite bosses (though sometimes they're worse!) on a regular basis.
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How do I change the BP of my party members? The cheat table from download doesn't have it, and I don't want to spend two hours killing things with Reimu and Meiling just so I can fight Flandre.
it's not super easy. Basically you just search for 0, then fight one battle with those characters, search for 2, fight one more, search for 4, etc. Generally I nail it at around 6. Sometimes I can't help but get triples no matter how far I go. In this case, crank one to 50 billion or something, see if the savegame portrait changes, if so, that's the one, then bring it down to the minimum if you don't want ot keep that portrait >=P
sorry for double post, kinda stressing, super multitasking atm.
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it's not super easy. Basically you just search for 0, then fight one battle with those characters, search for 2, fight one more, search for 4, etc. Generally I nail it at around 6. Sometimes I can't help but get triples no matter how far I go. In this case, crank one to 50 billion or something, see if the savegame portrait changes, if so, that's the one, then bring it down to the minimum if you don't want ot keep that portrait >=P
sorry for double post, kinda stressing, super multitasking atm.
What is this BP you two speak of?
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IMO using Kaggy and/or Flan, who should be capable of 1-shotting the encounters (Or at least 2-shotting with someone else backing up via decently powered multihit) for farming 27F is best. Then you can finish all encounters within 2 turns when Reimu isn't even a high level yet, and in Flan's case, probably start oneshotting everything quickly; though, her MP must be cared for with an Arthuros Gem or somesuch.
Oh, I have Flan and Kaggy oneshotting everything, but I mean when they run out of SP, it's nice to have a secondary crew come in and continue grinding as opposed to go back to town.
Within a few more sessions though, Nitori, Orin and Mystia should be able to reliably oneshot everything, and Okuu is on her way as well. Giga Flare wipes crabs, but nothing else, sadly, and Hell's Tokamak is disappointing, to say the least.
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Yeah, Okuu is... pretty disappointing. Her ability to self-buff MAG and attack at the same time is overshadowed by it reducing her defenses further and the attack being very weak, and her complete lack of a good nuke in the first place; and Giga Flare is massively overshadowed by the fact that they accidentally gave Kaguya MND-ignoring spells and decided to not fix it.
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I don't think the MND-ignoring thing with Kaguya would have been so bad if Giga Flare did more damage or was cheaper or both. Or wasn't such a shitty element. Seriously, there's only two (arguably 3-4) characters who pull MYS off well, and they all come before Okuu.
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The cheaper is fairly irrelevant by the time you GET Okuu, because it's late in Plus Disk. And, about the Kaguya thing; Kaguya is just overall kind of OP against random encounters due to the MND ignoring. I don't like it, especially considering it was simply due to a "mistake in data entry" that they decided not to fix.
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IMO though, for Okuu's late joining, slow leveling, low SP growth, Giga Flare's high cost and low damage just make the problem worse.
And while I consider Kaguya great for random battles, I consider Mystia the broken one :V
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beat me to it.. Mystia is broken. Kaggy is at least on the slower side, AND none of her good attacks are non-elemental. Mystia goes first very often, has power, and doesn't get dumbed down by elements.
Flan is broken for trash too. I mean, in my current playthru, I honestly don't see her as good a bosskiller as I hoped. Starbrow break is powerful yes, but it's not any more powerful than KOi3 or megawatt, or Eiki's nuke, etc. Granted, Flan is fast, and the spell has average delay, so she can definately spam it for better dps than anybody. But she's so squishy, and the fact that it hurts her means that even a simple spirit wind or whatever can take her out after spamming break. So you're pretty much forced to use just 1 at a time, and in that situation, wtf are you using flan and not Nitori/Yuugi/etc if not for her amazing trash potential? To make matters worse, as she levels up more and more, her defense falls behind more and more from her attack and her starbrow break goes from being a minor ding, to a holy shit I just nuked the shit outta myself penalty. I mean Flan's health is good, so early game you CAN keep her out for an attack and take a hit because her hp, but later on when break mauls her a new one.. it's risky.
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Flan does have a niche roll in boss battles as a secondary emergency nuker (and is the best one against Yuuka). Main problem with Starbow Break is medium delay, and the delay isn't low enough to capitalize on Flan's high speed spamming it. Starbow Break also doesn't have as much raw power as you'd expect from Flandre's massive attack stat, being comparable to Shiki's at best.
That being said, she mows down random encounters like no other, and it's not like she's BAD for bosses (she outpaces Yuugi/Suika for bosses that aren't weak to fire/wind, and you get her long before Shiki, so she can be a second/third glass cannon and not be totally outclassed). Yuugi and Suika won't beat her for a while anyways, and need affinities in their favor before late plus disk rolls in.
For me, the top 10 trash clearers, in order, are:
Mystia (disables tough mobs and kills everything else)
Flandre (almost nothing can survive)
Kaggy (see Flan)
Orin (oh yeah)
Cirno (best disabler until Mystia, and her damage output isn't BAD, but it isn't good)
Patchy (slow as SIN, but hits like a truck)
Marisa (only problem being she's stuck with mystic)
Nitori (trolololol)
Renko (disables like a champ)
Keine (tanks and buffs, and can hit decently)
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no yuyu? shes excellent at trash IMO, even to those death immune, flawless hits hard, and happens sooner than patchy's flare. Or if you face someone spirit resistant and death immune, she can kill their atp bar by enough that it might as well be a disable (and an unresistable one at that).
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Even late in the Plus Disk, Yuyuko has trouble with SP for continuous spam, or at least that's what mine is doing.
She'd probably be 11 or 12 for me.
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How do I change the BP of my party members? The cheat table from download doesn't have it, and I don't want to spend two hours killing things with Reimu and Meiling just so I can fight Flandre.
Find the character's details addresses. Stuff like hp/maxhp/level/exp pool etc. IIRC add 000001C8 to the address of the character's level and you'll get the address where BP is stored. I'll confirm it when I get home.
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Welp, I started a New Game+ to have fun with in my spare time (That and to have fun with the Plus Disk content again).
Team...
Aya
Minoriko
Iku
Youmu
Suwako
Renko
Meiling
Rumia
Mystia
Chen
Ran
Alice
Doesn't seem that bad right now, but I can't help but wonder if I'm gonna run into issues late game when I don't exactly have a decent 2nd slot person to soak up both physical and magical damage in an emergency. Youmu could easily get wrecked by magic there, leaving Ran as the only viable choice after her levels and stats get to a decent enough level. Perhaps I should consider swapping a couple characters around here to rectify that. I'm still on floor 1 so it shouldn't be a problem to bring in new characters if needed.
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Iku, Ran, and maybe Alice (don't exactly recall how durable she is) should both be durable enough for second-slot tanking.
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Alice will struggle early on with physical attacks, but after about midgame or so she'll do fine. If you go do plus disk, then she'll definitely be able to handle your slot 2 tanking needs.
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Basic address sequence of what you get when hacking out the stats of any girl
Level
Exp pool
Level up rating
recovery rate
max hp
current hp
max sp
current sp
max tp
current tp
Att
Def
Mag
Mnd
Spd
Eva
Att growth
Def growth
Mag growth
Mnd growth
Spd growth
Eva growth
HP growth
SP growth
Att multiplier
Def multiplier
Mag multiplier
Mnd multiplier
Spd multiplier
Eva multiplier
HP multiplier
SP multiplier
Fir aff
Cld aff
Wnd aff
Ntr aff
Mys aff
Spi aff
Psn res
Par res
Mut res
Dth res
Debuff res
hp level
sp level
tp level
Att level
Def level
Mag level
Mnd level
Spd level
Eva level
Fir level
Cld level
Wnd level
Ntr level
Mys level
Spi level
(huge address gap)
spell 1 sp cost
spell 2 sp cost
spell 3 sp cost
spell 4 sp cost
spell 5 sp cost
(huge address gap)
battle points
equip slot 1 item
equip slot 2 item
equip slot 3 item
In the multipliers section you'll see 100 + 2%(for each levelup and levelup bonus) +3%(for each bought skill level) + equipment adjustments.
Battle points address - char level address = 000001C8
Max hp address - char level address = 00000010
Spell 1 sp cost address - char level address = 00000160
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What's a good level for Serpent of Chaos, and for the Hibachi twins if for the bees I plan on only using Kaguya, Rumia and Okuu?
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orz I've forgotten how to fight Suwako and 9F Nitori.
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Wait, forgot as in how to beat or forgot as in how to access?
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Beat. I'm on a normal playthrough btw.
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Suwako:
Komachi can debuff/paralyze her, she's weak to fire, so Yuugi and Patchouli (and to a lesser extent, Alice) can inflict huge damage. Use magic attacks whenever she's using a physical attack and vice-versa. If you aren't using Iku, then Remilia is probably going to be your strongest attacker overall.
Nitori:
Bulk up on Fire and to a lesser extent, Cold and Nature resists for your primary tank, and pump her defense. Also weak to fire, and vulnerable to Paralysis, so Suwako can lock her down. I think she's immune to debuffs, though.
Obligatory Wriggle poison and Meiling is your best bet for tank here.
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Actually, Nitori is even more vulnerable to debuffs than to PAR. She has resistances of PAR-22 and Debuff-20.
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If that's the case, then Komachi is still awesome for this fight.
Although I'll be honest in saying that she'll probably not survive MWLG very easily.
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I think my Meiling and Yuugi can take a MWLG. I'm not very good with placing my healers and the whole timing thing.
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Yuugi and Meiling should be fine with their massive defense stats and a buff or two. They should be able to take one MWLG and a second hit, if MWLG rolls low and the second hit is weak and rolls low.
I think Meiling with a Love MACHINE and two Bomb Rings can take two, but I'm not sure if that's worth messing up her stats.
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Wriggle might be a solid tank since she's been better built for defense than Yuugi. I'll need to stack her affinities though.
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If that's the case, then Komachi is still awesome for this fight.
Although I'll be honest in saying that she'll probably not survive MWLG very easily.
MWLG is 300% ATK - 50% DEF, so affinity and HP are more important than DEF here.
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I need to finish this but it was before the final update. WIll my old save file carry over?
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It should work fine.
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Whee Nitori cheesed my best attackers with Waterfall. Down to Marisa (she had just fired off MS) and Chen (with no mp to buff+Idaten). Desperation Magic Missile attack FTW :V
Suwako fight wasn't as close. All her physical attacks did 0, but magic mode pwned my team.
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Fuck Extending Arms when she's not on your team :V
Also, when I first fought her, I can see why in Parallaxal's LP, Meiling got nightmares from MWLG.
Grindan is sloooooooooooooooooooow. I mean, everything on the 27th floor dies to Orin (who oneshots everything but crabs with Blazing Wheel, and kills crabs and Liliths with Needle Hill), Nitori + Alice/Mystia, Kaguya, Okuu + Second Attacker, Flan, Rumia + Cleaner, etc, but the exp is fairly meh. If I could get the 3x Lilith Encounter every time, it would be so much nicer, since I can compensate for the feh exp by pumping up skill levels.
Level 75 affinities on Reimu and Meiling with affinity gear rocks. 525 average affinities on both of them, so magic = lol, especially once Reimu's buffed up. She's not quite as high as Iku yet, though, but having way better defense for somewhat worse mind is nothing to scoff at.
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Hooray!! Today is an awesome day!
I beat Great Stamp, unlocked Yukari battle and beat Yuyuko all in one day :D
I didn't even use DTH resist gear on people like Patchy and Meiling(yes she died from DTH first attack)
I hit her and she went black and I said "WTF?? That didn't seem like enough damage?"
I like it when I'm awesome at things all of a sudden for no reason.
Just need to beat Yukari and Orin(haven't gotten to her yet) and Flandre and Kaguya(also haven't unlocked).
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Flandre is pure damage rush, but Tenshi and Meiling, as long as they stay buffed, laugh at whatever she can do.
Orin is a pain in the ass. Orin herself isn't bad, but the knight battles beforehand drain your TP and SP.
Kaguya's FOE is a pain in the ass, and Kaguya herself isn't useful in any of the upcoming battles except for against Flandre, so she's the second-to-last I would personally do.
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Hooray!! Today is an awesome day!
I beat Great Stamp, unlocked Yukari battle and beat Yuyuko all in one day :D
I didn't even use DTH resist gear on people like Patchy and Meiling(yes she died from DTH first attack)
I hit her and she went black and I said "WTF?? That didn't seem like enough damage?"
I like it when I'm awesome at things all of a sudden for no reason.
Just need to beat Yukari and Orin(haven't gotten to her yet) and Flandre and Kaguya(also haven't unlocked).
Did you beat Mokou yet? She should be cake if you are at Yukari already. After getting Mokou (goto kaggy to fight her), Kaggy will have another fight afterwards, which is more difficult, but.. should also be pretty easy compared to where you're at.
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I beat Mokou already. Didn't you read my long struggle in the last thread?
I only need to get the BP for the Kaguya battle before I can vs her.
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Just go to an earlier floor and spam M. Or use the cheat table to fix encounters at 200%.
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I prefer to spam M. It gives my finger a good workout :D
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Kaguya's FOE's stats are actually fairly high for that point in the game, so you'll need really good fire affinity to survive the Flowing Hellfire.
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You could always leave recruiting Kaguya for when you need the stars. She doesn't get much use outside of postgame.
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To be fair, she's probably the strongest attacker vs. Flan.
And she's decent against Yukari, and passable for every boss up until Post Game (she's awesome against Bloody Papa, for example)
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Nevermind, found another source for the images, along with a ton of extras. I might upload them all in a bit ;3
EDIT: All done. (http://www.mediafire.com/?pc8dovp81cj8u8z) There's 8 portrait packs in there, including the one in the first post.
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Chirpy you are a Gensokyo God.
*bows*
La la la la la la 27F grindan.
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I really need to stop walking into boss icons when half of my party is out of TP. Twice I've fallen into that trap thinking I'm going to fight one of Wriggle's bugs.
"Oh look, a bug."
Rumia: AHHHH! FOOD!
"Is this a bug?"
*Ifrit instantly kills Cirno and Chen*
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I really need to find a way to destroy Flanchan... My current plan is to pump a crapton of SP into Meirin's defence and Tenshi's defence/mind and pray that Patchy doesn't get touched by any physicals.
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Patchy will probably get raped by Forbidden Fruit.
You can hold off on recruiting Flan until you recruit Hourai NEET, who can smash through her like a hot knife through butter.
Remilia other durable damage dealers are your best bet, using only a couple of nukes.
IIRC, Cirno can do good due to paralysis; not so much her meh damage output.
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Thanks for uploading the image packs, Chirpy. There are some really good selections in there.
Time to pick 'n mix.
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Updating the OP with chirpy's pack.
Edit: you guys can use the report post function to let me know where the links are for other image packs to put in the OP.
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Already had the NEET, but she wasn't enough last time I tried. She was only (I use "only" lightly here) hitting around Nitori damage, except taking more SP and being much more fragile. In any case, my defence plan worked. Meirin/Tenshi were practically invincible, and nothing really did anything to Patchy that couldn't be fixed by a Meirin heal. Laevateinn came really close though, leaving Patchy with around 100 HP, but she died shortly after that.
http://i54.tinypic.com/25klgy1.png (http://i54.tinypic.com/25klgy1.png)
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And now you have one of the best random encounter smashers in the game. Oh, and probably one of the most useful characters for 20F grinding and against Yuuka.
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Yay! Though I don't really like the side-effects of her spells. SP costs are a touch high too, but I suppose that's to be expected on spells that strong. Also, lol Orin. (http://i54.tinypic.com/9jmvjt.png)
That's all the 1-15 recruitments done, onward to Yukari! >=3
EDIT: Yukari down (http://i52.tinypic.com/sphc0k.png). She was surprisingly mild... Djinn Storm was annoying, but she didn't seem to have any real threatening attacks. Onward to 17F!
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EDIT: Yukari down (http://i52.tinypic.com/sphc0k.png). She was surprisingly mild... Djinn Storm was annoying, but she didn't seem to have any real threatening attacks. Onward to 17F!
Considering Nitori and Suwako can kill her in 6 hits or less if buffed and geared well, this is to be expected. :P
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Kourin and 18F enemies are a different story... I'm having to return to Gensokyo every 1-2 battles. Pretty good exp though. Also, would it be worth heading down a floor for drops to sell for SP or what?
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I'm not sure if 17F has anything worth selling or keeping, but 16F is your best grinding deal at the moment.
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The JP wiki lists Stars of Elendil (124k), and Wing Amulets (36k), plus Omoikane's Insights, and Blue Sabers for personal use (though those two also drop on 16F). And I guess Zodiac Stones if I ever need spirit affinity, but I usually prefer to go for magic/attack boosts (or mind/defence for tanks) if I can get away with it.
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Yay I beat Yukari :D
She didn't seem too hard to beat.
Now I just need to beat Orin Flan and Kaggy's FOE
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Orin is easy if you can do Yukari.
As is Kaggy's FOE and Flan should be reasonably easy at this point.
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Just beat Kaggy's FOE :D
EDIT: Up to 18F, highest level is 80-83.
Fastest character: Chen:343 with two acc. modules and a faerie wing.
Slowest Character:Yuyu:138.
Lol difference
EDIT EDIT: Also Ring of Hades sell for over 14000 skill points for me :D
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Just beat Kaggy's FOE :D
EDIT: Up to 18F, highest level is 80-83.
Fastest character: Chen:343 with two acc. modules and a faerie wing.
Slowest Character:Yuyu:138.
Lol difference
EDIT EDIT: Also Ring of Hades sell for over 14000 skill points for me :D
Something wrong with your Yuyu O_o. Patchy's supposed to be slower.
I hope you have Flan, since she can cream most of the 18F stuff.
I'd also like to petition Cirno for top tier if we count only maingame.
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I leveld Patchy's SPD to lvl47 since I wanted her to be faster.
It actually wasn't that bad of a move.
Her speed is now 153.
And If you think that's weird, My Suwako's attack is higher than Nitori's by about 800.
Now for a Highest stat list:D
HP:Komachi obviously with 15123
SP:Patchy with 523
ATK:Yuugi with 7767
DEF:Tenshi with 5734
MAG:Patchy with 6851
MND:Patchy with 6405
SPD was listed earlier and I don't want to bother listing affinities.
And no I don't have Flan yet.
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My Yuyu's also slower than my Patch, since I haven't spent any SP on speed for her, but my Patch has 23 in it. He probably has something similar going on. My Eirin is technically the slowest, but she's still level 1 (because I'm not sure how I want to build her yet) so it doesn't count.
Really demotivated to continue right now. I'm definitely about 10 levels underleveled for Kourin and I just can't bring myself to do them...
*sees another message was posted*
I leveld Patchy's SPD to lvl47 since I wanted her to be faster.
It actually wasn't that bad of a move.
Her speed is now 153.
See, there you go >_>
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Just to annoy you NEETori I put one more level into Yuyu's speed.
She now has 139 speed.
Also Nitori's speed recently crossed into the 200's but then I took her speed items away and gave her attack items instead.
She still doesn't have higher attack than Suwako though.
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My Yuyu's also slower than my Patch, since I haven't spent any SP on speed for her, but my Patch has 23 in it. He probably has something similar going on. My Eirin is technically the slowest, but she's still level 1 (because I'm not sure how I want to build her yet) so it doesn't count.
Really demotivated to continue right now. I'm definitely about 10 levels underleveled for Kourin and I just can't bring myself to do them...
*sees another message was posted*
See, there you go >_>
Kourin's not bad if you make sure to keep your defenses buffed since Nitori literally two-shots all forms when supported. Throw on some other attackers and as long as you can keep them out of harm's way, you're good.
Personally, I'd build Eirin defensively. I started her out pure magic, but she was getting quickly outpaced by practically every attacker. It really hurts her since her only viable attack is spirit elemental, and the other three are weak (Mercury Sea and Omoikane's Device if you're not hitting weakness) or mediocre (Galaxy in a Pot).
My highest stats:
HP - Komachi at around 230k, Meiling in a distant second at 150k and Reimu in a close third at 120k
SP - lolReimu at 4k
Attack - Flan with over 200k and Yuugi in a distant second at 175k
Defense - Tenshi at 90k
Magic - Patchy at barely over 130k
Mind - Iku with 120k
Speed - Chen sitting comfortably close to 4k
Affinities - highest overall belong to Reimu
And If you think that's weird, My Suwako's attack is higher than Nitori's by about 800.
Actually, that's not weird, considering Nitori's Attack growth is made of epic meh. Gurthangs and buffs are what make her especially awesome endgame.
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Yay beat Orin first try since I finally bothered getting to her battle.
Now I just need Flan and then I'm all done for bosses.
Until I get to Kourin.....
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Kourin's not bad if you make sure to keep your defenses buffed since Nitori literally two-shots all forms when supported. Throw on some other attackers and as long as you can keep them out of harm's way, you're good.
Ehh, what level were you when you got there? My Nitori hits a bit under 70k on fire-neutral, which would be 3-4 shotting anything that isn't cold. Level 83, 68 points into attack, and 168% attack from equipment. In any case, my whole team is being sweeped before the first form goes down =p. Most of my party's in the high 70s, except for Chen (93), and a couple of the other faster levelers (low-mid 80s).
General replay of what happens when I attempt to kill him. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX9zugfjFnM)
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Hey all, I've been playing this game for a while, and it's kept me occupied for quite a while.
I have beaten the game and gotten all the way to 27F.
I started doing the postgame content some time after 20F to get the "star" mission things that appear in Akyuu's House.
I looked up how to get them, and one of them told me to get at least one of every item on pages 1 - 10 of the equipment list. So I went and farmed the monsters needed to get all the items, and once I had all the items, I went to check the missions, and it's hasn't appeared, meaning I can't get past 27F since I only have 4 stars...
I'm just wondering if this is a known issue or if there's a way to fix it.
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Beating the 20F boss again usually fixes that issue.
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Ehh, what level were you when you got there? My Nitori hits a bit under 70k on fire-neutral, which would be 3-4 shotting anything that isn't cold. Level 83, 68 points into attack, and 168% attack from equipment. In any case, my whole team is being sweeped before the first form goes down =p. Most of my party's in the high 70s, except for Chen (93), and a couple of the other faster levelers (low-mid 80s).
General replay of what happens when I attempt to kill him. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX9zugfjFnM)
Nitori's nuke is actually non-elemental.
Okay, so at that level, you're a bit low. Reimu 100 seems to be the magic number for most people. I also recommend using Meiling over Tenshi unless you can get Tenshi's health to about 6500 or so, since she'll get smashed by Rasetsu Fist, otherwise. You also might wanna consider swapping a few of your nukers for bulkier attackers and possibly an attacker for Iku or Ran (the boost to Nitori and your glass cannons will far outdamage the unboosted attacking power of everyone unbuffed).
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Beating the 20F boss again usually fixes that issue.
It worked!
Thank you very much. I was getting worried that I had played this game for nothing.
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I'd also like to petition Cirno for top tier if we count only maingame.
I'd agree with this. Cirno is like a poor man's Renko or Mystia, but Renko and Mystia are so awesome that even an inferior version of them can still be good.
I love how awesome buffs and debuffs are in this game. Reminds me of my days maining BRD in FFXI.
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Nitori's nuke is actually non-elemental.
Okay, so at that level, you're a bit low. Reimu 100 seems to be the magic number for most people. I also recommend using Meiling over Tenshi unless you can get Tenshi's health to about 6500 or so, since she'll get smashed by Rasetsu Fist, otherwise. You also might wanna consider swapping a few of your nukers for bulkier attackers and possibly an attacker for Iku or Ran (the boost to Nitori and your glass cannons will far outdamage the unboosted attacking power of everyone unbuffed).
Oh is it? It says both fire and non-elemental in the description, so it's a bit misleading. Anyway, how's my new lineup look (http://i54.tinypic.com/wu4ftv.png)?
I'd agree with this. Cirno is like a poor man's Renko or Mystia, but Renko and Mystia are so awesome that even an inferior version of them can still be good.
I love how awesome buffs and debuffs are in this game. Reminds me of my days maining BRD in FFXI.
I didn't really like Cirno. Her speed debuff is okay early on (10F or so), but once you have Komachi and Reisen, she becomes a bit outclassed. All-debuffs in one shot with Reisen and all-debuffs plus poison and short-term paralysis with Komachi makes them way better for crippling imo. Suwako can take up the paralysis role, and Reimu can slip in a paralysis between barriers if Suwako misses. A third debuffer just feels like a wasted character slot. Renko and Mystia look nice though... 100% speed debuff plus paralyze? Followed up with a 100% debuff to everything else? Do want.
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all-debuffs plus poison and short-term paralysis with Komachi
Komachi's is pretty SP-intensive, small debuff numbers, and DOESN'T HIT ATK/MAG, which basically degrades it into tiny SPD debuff that can hit a little PAR. It's still useful, but it's not superawesomefantabulous :3
Yukari's does it better anyway. Although you don't get her for awhile and usually her SP is better saved for DEF/MND buffing (or postgame, SPIRITING AWAY SPAM)
And yeah, characters practically need to be rated separately for Main Game, Plus Disk, and possibly Winner (mostly only important for people who have no lives and beat him more then once). Like Wriggle is top tier for the Main Game, and useless tier for Plus Disk since Poison scales horribly. Amusingly, if I work out the formula as the Special Disk database gives it, Wriggle SHOULD still be doing top-tier damage; but I even got her out and tried it on a 30F random, and no, it's pathetically low. Weird.
One thing that massively changes characters at Winner is how much of a HUGE difference affinities make things. Characters with low MND, if given special attention to affinities, take a MND hit pretty damn well. Yuugi with a Physical Reactor can hit half 1k and half 750 affinities without much trouble and become an awesome tank with her Meiling-tier HP/DEF, great damage, and suddenly good ability to deal with magic hits (She takes about 100k from magic while having 360k HP for me at the moment, and basically invincible to physicals). It makes me wonder why I even have Meiling anymore when Yuugi fills the 1st slot for me just as well now, and Ran takes the second constantly spamming DEF/MND buff.
Also, DEF-build Ran has even better HP/DEF/MND then Yukari, I've noticed now. But she can only afford to spam her buff the entire battle during later in Plus Disk, soooo... Yukari is still overall better before like, Winner. Plus she has super abusable spiriting away.
Starting to think about leaving Reimu/Rumia in third slot and having 4th slot be Chen or Aya with pumped affinities. Not having to switch them out ever drastically increases their damage, which due to super speed+delays previously was mostly held back due to having to switch them out most of the time, but now they can't be oneshotted, hehe... plus Chen regains ALL her delay in 1 battle tick for me now, which is awesome.
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Ehh, what level were you when you got there? My Nitori hits a bit under 70k on fire-neutral, which would be 3-4 shotting anything that isn't cold. Level 83, 68 points into attack, and 168% attack from equipment. In any case, my whole team is being sweeped before the first form goes down =p. Most of my party's in the high 70s, except for Chen (93), and a couple of the other faster levelers (low-mid 80s).
General replay of what happens when I attempt to kill him. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX9zugfjFnM)
Just use Reimu to guage levels, forget about everyone else. Unless you aren't using Reimu.
anyway, I can't even get to that boss without hitting Reimu 90 without doing any grinding, but I do explore every map, are you skipping portions or something? Or is your Reimu about 90 too?
Anyway, you're kinda playing oddly IMO, or maybe you just stopped caring at a certain point. First off, you have tenshi in the front, which is good, but I'm wondering if that's just coincidence and you don't know. But yeah, you want to stick your tankier characters in the front, and your squishier ones in the back. (Front being left), not only to the front characters get targetted by the bigger nukes more often, but they also eat more damage from row attacks like Tai slash. For example, having Yukari in the far back, and Flan in the 2nd front is just insane. Looking at your party setup, I don't really notice any pure tanks other than Tenshi, so Yukari and Reimu should be your 2nd slot (especially since they'll have def buffs up more than other people since they do the bufifng themselves). Don't start with flan, she's squishy, giving her defensive buffs isn't going to do much. Try having your toughest people out first, and def buff em up, then switch out someone for someone squishy, then you'll have a nice controlled group of 3 beefy person, and only 1 squishy person to worry about. I'd open up with Yuugi 2nd instead of Flan if I were you, then switch out people who need healing most afterwards.
Your biggest problem though is that you just don't have china. Tenshi is going to have a really hard time managing ratsetsu fists with her low hp. You MAY want to consider buffing up Yuugi's hp while you grind, she's probably your best 1st slot tank for Rinnosuke phase 1. Don't leave her in the first slot for elemental phases though, tenshi should be fine for that. Without only Tenshi as a tank, and with absolutely no healing in your entire party minus Reimu's exorcising border. Keeping hp up during phase 1 will be very difficult.
But yeah, try again when you get Yuugi's hp over 6500, and don't leave people like flan or suwako in slot 2 if you can help it, and it shouldn't be rape anymore.
Oh is it? It says both fire and non-elemental in the description, so it's a bit misleading. Anyway, how's my new lineup look?
Oh, you change characters? I see, that's ok then! yeah, having china will help alot. This "lineup" is for this boss only I hope? I notice you don't hav ea single source of mag-nukeage. Alice's return inanimateness uses def not mnd.. soo.. Yeah, you're definitely not going to be able to keep that party for the rest of the game.
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Ugh, well that was upsetting... Just typed a response and clicked off the page somehow. Time to retype... D=
anyway, I can't even get to that boss without hitting Reimu 90 without doing any grinding, but I do explore every map, are you skipping portions or something? Or is your Reimu about 90 too?
Reimu's 87 now, but she was around 83 when I reached the floor I believe. Can't remember exactly, but it sounds about right. I normally go for full map unlocking because I'm incredibly anal about stuff like that, though I was lazy with 17F because there's no events there. Just grabbed myself a teleporter map and skipped along to 18F.
Anyway, you're kinda playing oddly IMO, or maybe you just stopped caring at a certain point. First off, you have tenshi in the front, which is good, but I'm wondering if that's just coincidence and you don't know. But yeah, you want to stick your tankier characters in the front, and your squishier ones in the back. (Front being left), not only to the front characters get targetted by the bigger nukes more often, but they also eat more damage from row attacks like Tai slash. For example, having Yukari in the far back, and Flan in the 2nd front is just insane. Looking at your party setup, I don't really notice any pure tanks other than Tenshi, so Yukari and Reimu should be your 2nd slot (especially since they'll have def buffs up more than other people since they do the bufifng themselves). Don't start with flan, she's squishy, giving her defensive buffs isn't going to do much. Try having your toughest people out first, and def buff em up, then switch out someone for someone squishy, then you'll have a nice controlled group of 3 beefy person, and only 1 squishy person to worry about. I'd open up with Yuugi 2nd instead of Flan if I were you, then switch out people who need healing most afterwards.
The whole reason for Flan was because I knew my team was too weak as a whole. I expected whoever was in slot 2 to get killed on round 1 regardless, so I tossed Flan in there as a sacrifice since she seemed like the least useful member (low SP, high SP costs, punishing attacks, low survivability). I wanted Reimu/Yukari in slots 3/4 to make sure they survived to buff whoever filled in Flan's position.
Oh, you change characters? I see, that's ok then! yeah, having china will help alot. This "lineup" is for this boss only I hope? I notice you don't hav ea single source of mag-nukeage. Alice's return inanimateness uses def not mnd.. soo.. Yeah, you're definitely not going to be able to keep that party for the rest of the game.
Of course not >_>. I usually use Chen/Marisa/Reimu (Nitori if there's a lot of spirit resistance) for my initial floor sweepers since they have high speed/decent damage, and then move them around as needed to recover their SP. For bosses I just working my team around with whoever seems the most useful. Normally Komachi and Reisen would be in here, but Kourin seems completely immune to debuffs/poison/paralysis, which is very depressing since those would probably be enough to take him down at my levels with a bit of luck.
EDIT: Level 90 now, and it's... Still really brutal. I can push him through about 2 forms before I run out of attackers. Really hard to move people in and out before they get killed here. Maybe I should start pumping up Nitori/Suika/Yuugi's defences more or something so they can tank a few hits if needed. Especially Nitori, she usually goes down before she can get an attack out =(.
EDIT2: Level 92, made it through about 5 forms. Another level or two should do it =3
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Yay I beat Flan :D
That's it for now.
I hate grinding:(
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Whilst I love fighting the monsters every time, the grinding really takes up so much time. I'm glad you guys have the cheat stuff up for it; makes life some what easier.
If anything, I wouldn't mind asking what an ideal party would be made of. I mean, my character picks are all over the place and I'm pretty sure I just make life difficult for myself by picking characters who do the same thing. What would you say is the most 'balanced' selection of characters? Can I have two answers please; one with the main game batch and the second including everyone else.
And before I forget, I don't want Reimu or Marisa in there. Put them in if they fit the balanced team, but also suggest someone who could make up for them if they weren't there. Thank you. XD
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Reimu's almost a must. I say almost because you can use specific combinations of characters to substitute, but it's more efficient just to shove Reimu into any given team.
That being said:
Meiling, Komachi, Reimu, Nitori, MND Iku, Chen, Alice, Remilia, Reisen, Mystia, Youmu, Suwako.
I'm being sorta nice. Chen is your blitzer. Nitori and Suwako are glass cannons, Mystia, Alice, Remilia and Komachi are bulkier attackers, Reimu and Iku support and Meiling tanks.
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Meiling, Komachi, Reimu, Nitori, MND Iku, Chen, Alice, Remilia, Reisen, Mystia, Youmu, Suwako.
This looks decent. I can't say that replacing anyone would be outright better, but I can say that some of the characters are more replacable than others in an ideal party.
First off, Meiling is essentially irreplacable. Yes, I know Tenshi can tank pretty well too, but honestly speaking, Meiling's sort of in a tier of her own. She's pretty much undeniably the best at what she does. Tenshi has overkill DEF/MND and not much else, while Meiling has good enough DEF/MND but with much better HP and utility. And when affinities start mattering more than DEF/MND, Tenshi just sort of loses her charm (although she's still a fine tank for main game).
Reimu I would also venture to say is irreplacable. The only thing that can come close to filling her role would be if you have both Yukari and Rumia, and even then Rumia isn't even close to comparable until you're well into the Plus Disk. Well, technically I could argue that if you know what you're doing, Minoriko can be an acceptable replacement, but even then it's debatable. But at least you can make some sort of argument for Minoriko as sole healer in an ideal party for the main game, which you can't even do for Sanae or Eirin.
I'd personally consider Iku irreplacable. Now, I'm well-known for being a big fan of Iku due to my experiences, but she's simply the best at doing what she does: passing out offensive buffs. +72% ATK/MAG is simply staggering; nothing else even comes close. Ran is a good buffer because she can also buff DEF/MND and she can attack pretty well too; otherwise, in general and practically speaking Ran is just plain inferior at offensive buffing (and I can show you why mathematically if you want). Being the best dedicated MND tank in the game does help Iku's case as well (Patchouli can get better MND, but she actually has a reason for putting points in MAG while Iku kind of doesn't).
Lastly, I'd say that Mystia is irreplacable. Yes, Renko and Cirno can both do similar things, but Mystia has one major benefit that those two lack: she can actually do respectable damage. There will be boss fights where Renko and Cirno are more or less useless, but that will NEVER happen with Mystia.
Aside from that, everyone else in the party is pretty much replaceable. You could replace Youmu with Yuugi and Alice with Patchouli, and I daresay you won't notice much of a difference in the long run. One could make the argument that Nitori is irreplacable, and indeed she is the best at what she does, just like the other characters that I called irreplacable. However, there is one difference: she is only one damage dealer out of at least half a dozen, while the other characters that I called irreplacable are oftentimes the only characters on your team filling that role. Thus, trading out one damage dealer for a slightly worse one (like replacing Nitori with Shikieiki) won't affect your team as much relative to trading out, say, Meiling for Tenshi. However, if I were to make an ideal team, Nitori would definitely be in.
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A truly ideal party doesn't exist, but basically, if you have the foundation of Reimu, Meiling, Iku, Mystia and Nitori, you're already pretty well off, since they provide you with almost everything you need. You just gotta throw in characters to fit what your party needs after that.
Another thing worth considering is either having a random encounter team, and a boss team. Some characters are great for both (AKA, everyone in the core except Meiling, and even she is workable), but for the most part, you're better off switching characters in and out as needed, since leaked experience is usually enough.
On the note of attackers being interchangable - for the most part, I agree, but it's also worth considering niche roles (Suika, Youmu and Yuugi for durability, Flan for sheer damage potential, Nitori and Shiki for reliability and the ability to take a single hit). That being said, who is probably better for Winrawr? Yuugi or Youmu? I'm currently using Yuugi, as she's one of my favorite characters, but I can't help but think that Youmu might be better (weaker attack, but better formula, non-elemental, and slightly more flexible)
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Youmu/Yuugi are ridiculously similar. Both have almost IDENTICAL stats and serve as a physical nuker (who, without factoring elements, have very similar single-target nuke damage too!).
Youmu has more stable affinities, her nuke has no element, and she has 2 great multitargets that are also very powerful against hitting WND/NTR weaknesses on a boss.
Yuugi has a little more HP/DEF/MND and less of a SP problem earlier on, a weakish multitarget, and her nuke is FIR element which can be good and bad since many bosses resist FIR, although on the few that are weak to it, holy damn.
Yuugi is a little bit better purely against bosses that aren't resistant to FIR or weak to WND or NTR. Youmu is better for randoms or in those three situations. But even outside of those situations, there isn't a huge difference.
And yes, I've worked things out, and at least endgame (like, at Winner) Yuugi's attack is higher enough compared to Youmu's that KO3S deals more then Slash of Eternity Will. Not a huge amount, but still better. Yuugi gets skill levels in ATK cheaper then Youmu, which tilts the scale in her favor; otherwise the difference would be insignificant.
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Hmm. I guess I'm sticking to Yuugi then :V
This game isn't really about who is the best, since you have to build a team, and the "best" team is really based upon a central core, as well as the current situation. In a sense, it's like competitive Pokemon battling.
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Last night: *makes it to Kourin's last phase and dies because Nitori/Suika have no SP left*
Today: *levels 4 more times, fails at least 3 dozen attempts, usually from Nitori dying on round 1*
I really, really, REALLY hate luck-based battles. This game's really pissing me off now...
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Don't give up, and what's your team? Maybe switching a few characters around might help.
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Last night: *makes it to Kourin's last phase and dies because Nitori/Suika have no SP left*
Today: *levels 4 more times, fails at least 3 dozen attempts, usually from Nitori dying on round 1*
I really, really, REALLY hate luck-based battles. This game's really pissing me off now...
I think that about sums up how everybody feels at that point in the game. You aren't alone in that regard. Keep at it. The rest of the game is more skill based, unlike start of heavenly demise that will utterly wreck any team.
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Don't give up, and what's your team? Maybe switching a few characters around might help.
Same as the last one I posted (this one) (http://i54.tinypic.com/wu4ftv.png), but. I switched my opening lineup to Tenshi, Meirin, Yukari, and Nitori, and booted Remilia for Sanae because Remilia's weak as hell and Sanae has buffs/healing (assuming she doesn't die first). My strategy is built around the following criteria:
A) Kourin does not open with heavenly demise (1 hit Nitori)
B) Nitori must not die (FFFFFFFFFF-)
C) Tenshi must not die (this is pretty rare anyway)
D) My party must not be crippled beyond repair (assuming I actually make it through criteria A/B)
EDIT: There we go. Finally killed that bastard >_>.
ONWARD TO FLOOR 19!!
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Alright my appologies if this is the wrong place, but I'm on Vista with the clean deal disk, not even updated, and it's saying Debug Assertion Failed, is there anyway to help? Outside of getting Win7, which is on my list.
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Never heard of that error. You might be missing some game files, note not save files.
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Well I never patched it with the English patch, would that work?
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The english patch doesn't change any of the game files. It's an edited exe.
Re-install is probably the best thing to do.
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It never asked me to install it, just gave me a list of some programs and to view it's folder.
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Same as the last one I posted (this one) (http://i54.tinypic.com/wu4ftv.png), but. I switched my opening lineup to Tenshi, Meirin, Yukari, and Nitori, and booted Remilia for Sanae because Remilia's weak as hell and Sanae has buffs/healing (assuming she doesn't die first). My strategy is built around the following criteria:
A) Kourin does not open with heavenly demise (1 hit Nitori)
B) Nitori must not die (FFFFFFFFFF-)
C) Tenshi must not die (this is pretty rare anyway)
D) My party must not be crippled beyond repair (assuming I actually make it through criteria A/B)
EDIT: There we go. Finally killed that bastard >_>.
ONWARD TO FLOOR 19!!
I actually grinded on 20F before running around 19F >_>
Kourin/Nitori/Marisa/Flan
Everyone must be faster than Flan. Kourin Military Rules, Marisa Spark, MWLG and then Lavatein.
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Hey if I didn't mention I have the Special Disc, do I need the original Labyrinth of TouHou and the Plus disc to properly install the Special Disc?
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Hey if I didn't mention I have the Special Disc, do I need the original Labyrinth of TouHou and the Plus disc to properly install the Special Disc?
No. Special Disk is just a combination of the original and plus disk on one handy disc.
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I actually grinded on 20F before running around 19F >_>
Kourin/Nitori/Marisa/Flan
Everyone must be faster than Flan. Kourin Military Rules, Marisa Spark, MWLG and then Lavatein.
I may just have to do that, it seems like awesome exp. Also holy shit Kourin's awesome. High HP, relatively high speed, relatively high defences, high attack, high affinities to everything but spirit... I only got his attack to 40 and he's already at 8146 without equips. It's a shame his TP is so low.
EDIT: Found an Armads. 50% attack and 12TP, it's like it was built for him...
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No. Special Disk is just a combination of the original and plus disk on one handy disc.
So, is there any fix for my error?
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I may just have to do that, it seems like awesome exp. Also holy shit Kourin's awesome. High HP, relatively high speed, relatively high defences, high attack, high affinities to everything but spirit... I only got his attack to 40 and he's already at 8146 without equips. It's a shame his TP is so low.
EDIT: Found an Armads. 50% attack and 12TP, it's like it was built for him...
IIRC, Armads used to be knocked due to its relative suckishness compared to Flower Blade Kikryusei (which is awesome), but since Iku's gotten a lot more popular, it's one of the best items for a physical attacker.
Kourin slows down HEAVILY during the plus disk (his damage output will be good up until 24F, where your nukers begin to severely outdamage him. at ths time though, he should be competing with them easily). Inversely, Remilia should be picking up steam like Reisen, due to the fact that she has essentially the same stats as Rinnosuke, but her self-buff lets her keep them doubled (except speed :\)
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Uh? Didn't cootiesuke have relatively average hp? (and low for a physical nuke) I seem to recall Remi having significantly more is all.
Honestly, his stats are impressive, but his formulas are not, his best spell can only be used once per battle, and during a boss, not only can you only use it once, but you cannot switch him out after either. I don't really see him as being all that. He's better than Remi offensively as a 2nd slot hybrid tank/nuke if you can maintain high buffs on him and everyone else though. I've only used Ran once, and Iku 0 times (she sucked on paper when her buff claimed to be only 40% or whatever the old figure was), so I don't really have experience playing with a party that can easily maintain offensive buffs quite yet. The time I used ran was pure love though.
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The stats make up for the formula early on but then as his slow leveling, bad random encounter handling, and mediocre formulas become more apparent, he quickly becomes weaker. Scarlet Gold Sword is literally the only good attack he has in the Plus Disk not including his buff, but it's better than Spear the Gungnir, and considering Remilia has pretty much the same stats, and the ability to self-buff, she's more independent than he is (Kourin will put up slightly better damage if you have someone to support him.
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I've only used Ran once, and Iku 0 times (she sucked on paper when her buff claimed to be only 40% or whatever the old figure was), so I don't really have experience playing with a party that can easily maintain offensive buffs quite yet. The time I used ran was pure love though.
I was about to hate on Ran, but I just noticed she also buffs reserves... That's pretty sexy. Iku does +72% att/mag, but the chance of paralyze, the single target, and her low physical durability makes it tough to use. I'm not a fan of her myself (especially for the luck element with paralyze, even if it is rare), but I'll admit she is useful.
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Iku does +72% att/mag, but the chance of paralyze, the single target, and her low physical durability makes it tough to use.
Iku is also one of, if not the, BEST magic tanker in the game. And magic attacks are FAR more common on bosses then physicals; a vast amount of bosses have one or no physical attacks at all, including Yukari and the final boss (after you take out the Shredding Amneseri or whatever that addon is).
Having a paralysis-immune party is a pretty good thing overall anyway. And the damage boost from Iku FAR surpasses what non-par-resistant equipment would bring.
The single target doesn't really make it hard to use either, as you'll probably only have one or two people out at a time who'd need the buff anyway, and due to the big amount of buffing it gives, it doesn't need to be renewed often on non-superfast-attackers.
About Rinnosuke, it's worth mentioning that Shining Stars of Traumeiri or however you spell it does a decent amount more damage then Scarlet Gold Sword when you've got buffs on him, assuming neutral MYS affinity and non-major defensive stats. But in general, Rinnosuke isn't really a very exciting character. All his stats are above average, but none of them are particularly good either. He's a lot like a Remi with worse HP/Speed/Delay and no self-buff in exchange for better skill variety.
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Having a paralysis-immune party is a pretty good thing overall anyway. And the damage boost from Iku FAR surpasses what non-par-resistant equipment would bring.
Further note on this: equips add onto the modifier stored in your stats while buffs are applied at the final layer of stats calculations.
(Base stats * (100% + levelups + statbuy +equips)) * buffs
That's why resist and affinity gear play a far bigger role in postgame when the bonus from equips are really small.
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Further note on this: equips add onto the modifier stored in your stats while buffs are applied at the final layer of stats calculations.
(Base stats * (100% + levelups + statbuy +equips)) * buffs
That's why resist and affinity gear play a far bigger role in postgame when the bonus from equips are really small.
That explains why Tenshi isn't as good as she used to be. I mean, yeah, 100k dual defenses are nice (that's what I have), but she still takes some pretty severe damage even buffed.
Iku's physical mediocrity is a non-factor if you consider that you can just shove her in the third or last slot, and her HP is high enough to survive a sniping attack for the most part.
Compare Ran, who has more middling defenses.
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SoC poonded at Reimu 455. Don't remember if this is a new best for me or not. Might be. China, at full health, with more +hp from skillpoints than anybody else has + skillpoints on any of their stats, got 1 shot from full health via thousand fist khanon (albeit BARELY).. blah.
MVP was Eiki/Flan+Kaggy...Dunno how people can not think kaggy's buff is uber >=P.
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Oh, it is :V
Between switching and the fact that it helps maintain buffs, it can increase your damage output faster than double-switch nuking. Especially considering you now have a slot for support/Reisen/Maribel/Rinnosuke/Remilia.
Also Chen, while not exactly a tank, is developing quite nicely defensively for me.
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Yeah, especially considering affinities, pretty much everyone gains durability as you get late into Plus Disk. And being able to leave Chen or Aya out for a hit makes a huge difference in how much damage they can deal.
Also, Ran's defenses are actually pretty great if you put levelups into DEF or MND. DEF-based Ran actually completely surpasses all my DEF-based Yukari's stats and now I use her as a second slot tank to spam her DEF/MND buff forever.
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Grabbed the last 20F drop I was missing (Scourge), ended up absurdly overleveled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSUqYRPkUY4) getting it.
When do I get Evac random battles? 168k SP a minute is nice...
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JUst wait until you get to 27F and start encountering Liliths. 92k SKP each.
Of course, by the time you reach the low-mid 400s with a majority of your party, several million SKP is not really that much anymore.
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JUst wait until you get to 27F and start encountering Liliths. 92k SKP each.
Of course, by the time you reach the low-mid 400s with a majority of your party, several million SKP is not really that much anymore.
400s? Did I read that right? Oh lawd... Hopefully the exp rates go up a lot on the way there then T_T
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Also, Ran's defenses are actually pretty great if you put levelups into DEF or MND. DEF-based Ran actually completely surpasses all my DEF-based Yukari's stats and now I use her as a second slot tank to spam her DEF/MND buff forever.
Ran is awesome in the sense where you can practically shove her stats anywhere except HP/SP/Attack/Speed and she ends up awesome.
400s? Did I read that right? Oh lawd... Hopefully the exp rates go up a lot on the way there then T_T
Yep. The EXP the last 3 floors give is fairly good, 27F being especially awesome once anyone who isn't Kaguya is able to oneshot everything and your main non-Kaguya/Okuu/Rumia attackers can kill crabs. 30F is somewhat inefficient until you can reliably handle all but the hardest ones.
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Ran is awesome in the sense where you can practically shove her stats anywhere except HP/SP/Attack/Speed and she ends up awesome.
Yep. The EXP the last 3 floors give is fairly good, 27F being especially awesome once anyone who isn't Kaguya is able to oneshot everything and your main non-Kaguya/Okuu/Rumia attackers can kill crabs. 30F is somewhat inefficient until you can reliably handle all but the hardest ones.
unfortunately, as great as the exp (and skp) is on 27f. The rate at which you need exp outpaces the rate of which you GET it once you reach 30f...By alot.
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Alright, finally got new portraits for my Favorite Characters team. Files are Alice_Player2, Flandre_Broken, Komachi_Beads, Mokou_SmokeWings, Remilia_Black, Rin_Spirits, Sakuya_Sleeves, Sanae_Gang, Suika_Gourd, Reisen_Creepy, Utsuho_CrossedArms, and Yukari_Portal.
http://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j
[attach=1]
Already got started by clearing the first floor. Komachi makes Chen and Meiling the easiest bosses ever.
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Added to the OP
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Added to the OP
Since it's the exact same link as the last one, is that necessary?
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I didn't notice
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Already got started by clearing the first floor. Komachi makes Chen and Meiling the easiest bosses ever.
I refrain from using dth attacks to those early parts of the game.. at least on bosses anyway.
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unfortunately, as great as the exp (and skp) is on 27f. The rate at which you need exp outpaces the rate of which you GET it once you reach 30f...By alot.
Although once you can reliably and quickly kill 30F enemies, it's not bad. Not great, but not bad.
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So I just beat the main story of Etrian Odyssey 3 (my first EO game). And after that, today I fought my first post-game boss, the Gold Dragon. As soon as the battle started, I noted that it had a new boss battle theme...and that it's the same song used for Serpent of Chaos/Twin Hibachi V2/***WINNER***! Yay! Now I have finally experienced that song in its natural setting!
Oh, and I managed to beat the Gold Dragon on my 5th try. Not bad, considering I didn't bother investing in Crush/Slice Amulets.
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That reminds me to be sad that in Special Disk, the final boss music doesn't play when fighting Winner even if you set it to Ver1 music, where it normally (aka in Plus Disk) DOES use the final boss music (Dark A Liar) for him.
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FUCK YOU MARIBEL MOTHERFUCKING HAN!! As I'm about to clear the boss rush, she decides to hit me with her death spell. Flan dies, everyone else gets hit with DTH. :colonveeplusalpha:
Edit: Got 5 stars now. Maribel V2 just knocked off Mystia on round 1. Pretty big jump from normal Mari, who can't hit over 1-2k on my weakest characters.
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Note that you will not be able to take Maribel v.2 for a while. Not until you can handle Baal Avatar, IMO.
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Note that you will not be able to take Maribel v.2 for a while. Not until you can handle Baal Avatar, IMO.
That sounds about right... I went into Baal and got the same deal. Opener --> dead Tenshi. That's definitely a first.
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You will also be finding Tenshi less and less awesome throughout the Plus disk. She stops taking 0s from everything even when buffed, which means she's inferior to Meiling by proxy of Meiling having better HP.
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Although on the upside, her HP starts becoming less crappy! :D...
But yeah, Tenshi is only worth considering due to her Sword of Rapture later on. Which, admittedly, can be a legitimate reason to use her in certain fights (I can understand wanting to dispell Winner's 50% ATK boost, especially if he uses it more then once before it wears off...!) but generally she's not too exciting.
She can still tank, but overall Meiling is a better choice, partially because in Plus Disk, Healer is actually a pretty nice heal!
In maingame though, her sheer ability to take 0s from near-everything is quite eye-catching, I've gotta say.
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Defenses scale less impressively than offensive stats in plus disk, from what it seems as well. While most off my tanky stay-in attackers are turning into nukes, my tanks that aren't Yukari, Reimu, Iku and Meiling have slowly gotten more disappointing. Komachi's switch to ATK-based means she can deal amazing damage, so yeah. My Komachi has 100k Attack with no gear boosts, so if I geared her as an attacker, she'd probably have as much as Nitori (who is sitting at a comfortable 150k with 2 Gurthangs and an Armads).
Oh, Tenshi's Sword of Rapture will help vs. Okuu, but otherwise, whatever Tenshi does, Meiling does it better.
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Defenses scale less impressively than offensive stats in plus disk, from what it seems as well.
I found it went the other way around. Alice went from being less frail then the average caster to being tanky, for example, and around reaching Winner, pretty much everyone is far more capable of taking hits then previously. Not to even mention how ridiculous affinity boosting is, since even my Yuugi takes pretty small damage from elemental magic after a little special attention.
Unfortunately, Winner becomes ridiculously boring after a little while because the fights are pretty straightforward and nonexciting and take like half a year to finish. I didn't even have to switch ONCE on my 10th battle at Reimu lv700, using a team of Yuugi/Ran/Iku/Reimu. I had Iku attacking with Thunder Drum for about a fifth of Yuugi's damage. Yeah switching probably woulda made it a little faster and less boring, but not by a whole lot...
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Everyone gains the ability to take hits better, except Komachi (who's progressively higher-growing HP but relatively worse and worse defenses), and Tenshi (who's essentially Komachi except in reverse), so I guess you're right about that.
But there's serious power creeping after level 400 or so. Alice and Mystia for me have fantastic defensive stats and amazing offensive stats, too. Reimu, as I've mentioned before, is essentially a MND version of Meiling, except with an offensive presence.
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Bah, Reimu should be far too busy healing/buffing/PARing/gettingswitchedoutfordelay to attack ;P
Right about Alice and Mystia though! They're quite nice.
Another thing that happens, which can be both good and bad, is SPD. It just kind of evens out over the board. You have your slower people (Only tanks should be in this group purely for switching efficiency, even if you COULD make them fast), your normal people, and people named stuff like Chen or Aya.
Even YUYUKO stops seeming slow. Which is good so that you can actually hit random battles with her DTH attacks before they all move. And speaking of Yuyuko, her MND becomes amazing. Almost as good as MND-based Reimu's. That combined with higher SP for more Flawless Nirvana makes her wonderful.
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Reimu's offensive presence is for grindan. Helps to have a fast, cheap spirit nuke that isn't from Hourai NEET
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After a long hiatus from this game I finally pick myself up again, at 30F (still). I got a warm welcome from Hibachi 2 V2's Dual Funeral Washing Machine; it successfully killed my active party in one shot. Is Reimu 454 too low?
EDIT: Oh wait Reimu's actually level 445. Was reading the Load File Screen's level.
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Wiki says 445-530, so I'd image about Reimu 475-500ish
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Make sure you kill the correct one first (the one with a stronger magic attack and weaker physical attack), that helps.
It's a really stupid fight though, I personally find no shame in beating it a bit over level if need be because fact is there's not really much strategy in it since 100% of the challenge is managing a beserk hibachi, which is best done by counting hps and rounds and entering beserk mode at the right time, which is right/wrong tedium rather than actual strategy...It's a shitty fight.
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I'm just wondering if it's possible to kill them both at the exact same time by just using Rumia, Okuu and Kaguya.
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Make sure you kill the correct one first (the one with a stronger magic attack and weaker physical attack), that helps.
To be specific, the one with a stronger magic attack (the one on the right side, I think) is the one you want to LEAVE alive.
And no, it is completely impossible to kill them both at the same time, unless you can deal over 100,000,000 damage before they get another turn. The Special Disk Database has cool AI info for bosses :3
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Damn, there goes being a smartass and bypassing the berserk phase.
I guess I should pack a few more nukers to take down Berserkbatchi.
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Hax in 100% debuffs on them.
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And no, it is completely impossible to kill them both at the same time, unless you can deal over 100,000,000 damage before they get another turn.
Re-reading the damage, this makes me want to somehow abuse Spirting Away combined with buffs, Hourai Barrage and Giga Flare in order to finish them of. Of course, their initial HP Is less than a 3rd that.
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Thanks for all the replies about the dual Hibachi fight. And yes I did leave Hibachi 2 (the pink magic one) alive; it still nailed Reimu for 100k+ and Yuugi for 212k (not surprised) with its nuke. Guess I'll have to waltz in 27/30F some more.
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With Dual Funeral Washing Machine, you pretty much just pray that either it DOESN'T GET USED before you win, or that Meiling survives it. Or maybe Komachi if you use her, but I dunno how much HP she would have/take. Mostly you pray it doesn't happen.
Leaving the magic one alive is more because, due to affinities and most characters having better MND then DEF, it's just easier to survive it going berserk; and partially due to their strongest non-washing attack, Needle Parade, being devastating when the ATK-based one goes berserk.
You still really want to damage them evenly, partially because less berserk time is better, and partially because when they go berserk, their HP becomes 10m plus double whatever they had remaining. Or just 10m if they were both below "zero" hp (aka below the 100m buffer HP they have) at the time. If you only hurt one, then the remaining would have a killer 70m HP in berserk mode :ohdear:
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To be specific, the one with a stronger magic attack (the one on the right side, I think) is the one you want to LEAVE alive.
And no, it is completely impossible to kill them both at the same time, unless you can deal over 100,000,000 damage before they get another turn. The Special Disk Database has cool AI info for bosses :3
derrp. I meant to say that but said the opposite. doh, thanks.
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After 170 hours, more grinding then I've ever done in my 17 years of gaming, I simply give the hell up. WINNER is the most demoralizing, infuriating, punch-fist-though-wall RPG boss I've encountered. I can see him sneering at me as he uses Time Stop, then proceeds to buff his speed and attack before Sword of Light/Hammering someone I need alive. Or down 80mil HP then proceeds to use Medicine of Life twice in a row, pretty much undoing about 30 minutes of work. Of if that fails start spamming Ether Flare or Overgrown... how people. Do I have to fight this guy for a hour long slog and pray he suddenly has a "lol, time to make him rage quit" moment?
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Alright. I finally managed to obtain the Touhouvania 2 portrait rips, so I adapted them for LoT. Filenames are Alice_Touhouvania2, Chen_Touhouvania, Flandre_Touhouvania2, Komachi_Touhouvania, Marisa_Touhouvania3, Meiling_Touhouvania2, Patchouli_Touhouvania3, Ran_Touhouvania, Remilia_Touhouvania2, Sakuya_Touhouvania3, Youmu_Touhouvania, Yukari_Touhouvania, and Yuyuko_Touhouvania.
http://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j
[attach=1]
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I'm digging Youmu's sweater-vest-dress-shirt combo.
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Yeah, the Touhouvania artwork is always impressive. Definitely going to use badass Reimu in my set.
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I found winner to be an amazingly rewarding and fun fight sans timestop which may require some luck. Basically if he timestops after buffing, then chooses to use his big nukes, eek. It should ONlY be a fight screwed if he buffs just before and uses his biggest nukes after though.
As for his heals, he has a limited number of uses for each the small and the large (iirc on the first iteration he can only use the small 3 times and the large once). Basically, you should just treat the heals as a free turn for yourself, and factor them into his max hp, EXPECTING him to use em eventually in the fight, if he does t, consider yourself lucky.
As for badass Reimu, yeah, she's gorgeous, though I can't say I like her hair-do much.
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I'm in need of a new Flan, but really there hasn't been much that satisfies the sense of badass moe that Flan is.
Personally, I don't think of Flan as a psycho so much as a child who doesn't know her own strength. A fairly mature child, mind you, but still a child. Then again, there's not too much on her in canon.
Speaking of Flan, screwed by attack multipliers. Then again, if her multipliers were buffed up any appreciable amount, she'd probably be just as broken as Nitori.
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Yeah, I don't like batshit insane flan either. But my Flan portrait is fine enough for me (don't remember the source, but I'm sure it's one of the ones stickied or whatever).
To clarify about winner though, the grind itself is horrible, that part is NOT rewarding >=P
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Then again, grinding is almost never rewarding.
Although the thousand heartless battle in KH2 would be an exception :D
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One thing that makes a world of difference for Winner is using a DEF and/or MND based Ran in your front 4 spamming her DEF/MND buff the entire battle. Because of how damage formulas work, having 20~30% more buff (as she'll keep you at 80~100% buff p.much permanently) REALLY helps.
And if the doesn't have the SP for it, giving her an item should fix that right up. Dear god SP items practically double your SP in Plus. Yukari and Ran and Yuyuko are pretty much the only ones who can USE more SP at that point though, anyway. And Kaggy for random trash, I guess.
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FINALLY. After a 52 minute slog the bastard goes down.... AND WHY THE HELL I WANT TO PLAY THIS AGAIN WITH ANOTHER TEAM!? I know have a back log of other RPGs I have not touched, hell I am trying to get the drops from Serpent of Cha- my God I want that Youmu badly.
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FINALLY. After a 52 minute slog the bastard goes down.... AND WHY THE HELL I WANT TO PLAY THIS AGAIN WITH ANOTHER TEAM!? I know have a back log of other RPGs I have not touched, hell I am trying to get the drops from Serpent of Cha- my God I want that Youmu badly.
Isn't this game just so darned addicting? Well, except maybe this killer 30F grind... which I swear I'll do someday.
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Wow, 10F-12F is really tedious(Screw you Puppet Tops and Shadowcats). Any tips of getting through this part before I become very overleveled from these floors?
Other than that, I really like this game.
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If you aren't averse to cheating, my cheat table has the codes for the coloured switches. You can just walk anywhere as needed. But the tedious roundabout is also to make you properly levelled for the fights later on.
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Still grinding for Rinosuke:(
Currently Reimu 100.
He pisses me off so much now that I want to fucking beat the shit out of him on my first victory.
To do that should I grind till everyone is over lvl95(even the ones I don't use) or should I grind till Chen is lvl115-120(currently 110 I think)?
Also at this rate I might end up beating the first Bloodstained seal boss(master light wings expansion e.v.d or something) before beating Rinno.
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Wow, 10F-12F is really tedious(Screw you Puppet Tops and Shadowcats). Any tips of getting through this part before I become very overleveled from these floors?
Other than that, I really like this game.
If you want to do it "legit" then there's a guide on the wiki page detailing step by step how to get by.
Basically load up a character who can outspeed every enemy on the floors with as much +TP as you can and escape from every battle, if you can.
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You can't outspeed tops unless you've spent all your skp on speed for Chen/Aya.
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Being a little overleveled won't hurt either, since 13F is a fairly large difficulty spike.
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Being a little overleveled won't hurt either, since 13F is a fairly large difficulty spike.
And, as this also implies, running away from every battle with a top is only going to make things harder for you later.
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Wow, 10F-12F is really tedious(Screw you Puppet Tops and Shadowcats). Any tips of getting through this part before I become very overleveled from these floors?
I made a video walkthrough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pdxdem8PnE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2KreOCa6QI
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As massive as the whole puzzle and as hard the encounters of 10-12F might be, that's probably one of my favourite parts in the entire game.
13F however, I probably would not have actually understood without the Wiki.
Wow, 10F-12F is really tedious(Screw you Puppet Tops and Shadowcats). Any tips of getting through this part before I become very overleveled from these floors?
Other than that, I really like this game.
When you reach the boss at the end of 12F you don't want to be underleveled. Unless maybe you have a superb plan.
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Rate this 4 man team:
China for tank
Reimu for healing and defence buffing and some magic damage
Wriggle for poison, possible secondary tanking, and some physical damage
Mystia for the dedicated damage dealer and anti-debuff
Forseen problems: Magic heavy bosses, bosses immune to physical damage, bosses that have a damage race phase (problem with any 4 man team
I'm trying to find the perfect 4 man team to beat the entire game with. Ideas?
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Maybe Ran instead of Wriggle? (For buffs, both kinds of defence and some damage dealing.)
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Rate this 4 man team:
China for tank
Reimu for healing and defence buffing and some magic damage
Wriggle for poison, possible secondary tanking, and some physical damage
Mystia for the dedicated damage dealer and anti-debuff
Forseen problems: Magic heavy bosses, bosses immune to physical damage, bosses that have a damage race phase (problem with any 4 man team
I'm trying to find the perfect 4 man team to beat the entire game with. Ideas?
Any enemy that resists physical and SPI will pwn you. You've got no elemental advantage.
China can solo the game given overleveling. I was gonna try solo the game with Mystia too because she's so awesome.
9squad was capable of clearing the main game just fine with a bit of work and patience.
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I think Minoriko would be a better choice then Reimu for a 4man team, but then again, Reimu has PAR.
...of course, any 4man team realistically involves using a good amount of cheating (Unless you want to spend hours on hours grinding), so the requirements a bit more lax then one might imagine.
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It's hard to say since 4 man teams pretty much require you to be overlevel, making some characters take hits for 0 for some attacks that would otherwise be threatening.
I think Reimu would be fine as the healer since any hits you DO take will likely be small enough to be healed without monster sized minoruke heals. Mystia is an amazing character but without someone hitting her offensive buffs I think remi would be better for bosses (though not trash), and could replace wriggle as a 2nd slot tank very well. Finding a magic nuke depends on how much you plan to cheat. Are you gonna max out tp? By alot or a bit? If alot using a high Sp costing nuke is an option because of rest but wouldn't be otherwise. Finding a good all round magic nuke is tough. Kanako is good but her spells cost too damn much, Eiki won't benefit from neon overlevel as much, patchy is just too physically squishy to use in a 4man team. Alice's best nuke is actually physical, and many others are stuck using just one element. You know, MAYBE reisen. Discarded is her only good boss spell, but if over level her mystic nukes just might be reasonable too, and her defenses should be ok with her buff... Not sure though.
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I said Minoriko more because in a 4 man run she would have Patch-tier mind (In comparison to what your mnd SHOULD be, hi overleveling), her skills have very low SP cost and delay (Wheras Reimu's have very HIGH sp cost and delay, and yes this is relevant because Reimu would have SP problems before hitting lategame also yukari exists), and Falling Leaves of Madness would be usable on those monster def/mnd randoms.
Maybe Meiling-Remi-Ran-Minoriko. They all have great durability (Minoriko is a little lacking in DEF but she's in 4th, Meiling lacks MND but that's nothing new and she's always awesome), Remi can boost her own stats, Ran can hit two different magical elements and have an awesome composite nonelemental spell if neither of her magic ones are good (Or, sometimes, her composite might just be best even though she has no offensive buffs)
Ran would pretty much be depended on to sweep randoms, though, but given overleveling, it probably wouldn't be a big problem anyway. Remi could take out anything resistant to the chosen attack (or the last one in the line, if you used En No Ozuno) while Minoriko and Meiling played the cleanup game.
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For a for man team?
Uh... maybe Meiling/ATK Sakuya/Yuugi or Suika or Nitori/Minoriko
Makes speed buffs worth using. Sakuya goes in the third slot if you use an Oni.
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Speed buffs would be way less useful because if you switched Sakuya/Aya out when she ran out of SP, suddenly you have a character slot you aren't making any use of. And she would of course run out of SP pretty fast, so...
With a 4 man team, you have to keep in mind SP. SP recovery items and/or cheap moves become very important.
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That's why 9squad was cool. All their spells are fairly cheap.
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I'm finally free from the 10-12F after giving into watching Para's video walkthrough.
Here is a video of me facing off against the 12F boss fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rtk7ZhNNVc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rtk7ZhNNVc)
Any tips on how I can improve?
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Don't give them stat debuffs until kaggy is dead. Try to kill Kaggy and Eirin at approximately the same time, Eirin has 2X as many hp, so just try to keep a 2-1 ratio.
Don't use princess undine with Patchy, Royal flare is SOOO much better (princess undine doesn't actually pierce magic defense better than it, it just pierces better than djinn storm and sattalite whatever), it's well worth the extra mp cost and delay. If you're going to use ran's def then atk buff without switching her out, do the def one first since it has lower delay. ummss, all I can think of for now. Don't be afraid to use Reimu's paralize too, better than komachi's for this fight.
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IIRC Eirin is also weak to fire, and Reisen has 0 paralysis resistance.
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First reaction: argh why does nitori not have paralysis immunity
Second reaction: Not a bad team. Better than my squad in some ways. I didn't use Alice, Remi or Aya, instead I had Tenshi, Suwako, and Yuugi here.
Third reaction: patchy is taking damage from magic WHAT THE HELL
Fourth reaction: Eirin isn't spamming Astronomical Entombing? Lucky!
Fifth reaction: You have a perfectly good Alice there, quit using Iku for offense and buff her...oh, Reisen's dead already, never mind.
Overall, It was a pretty ugly fight but you pulled through without knowing all the tricks anyway. Of course if Eirin had used Entombing more you'd have been screwed. For good Eientei strategies the four posts starting here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg558253.html#msg558253) should help a bit. You do seem to be good to go for the next two floors though, if you just slap a couple PAR resistance items on Nitori. I'd highly recommend completely clearing out F13, because I moved up before doing so, then I got wrecked by the 14F bosses and Mokou. Are you going to use Reisen? You seem to like debuffing a lot, so she could be a good choice for your team.
Also, since I can't repeat it enough, NITORI PAR IMMUNITY. Why risk the best damage in the game getting frozen and useless for the next few turns?
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First reaction: argh why does nitori not have paralysis immunity
Second reaction: Not a bad team. Better than my squad in some ways. I didn't use Alice, Remi or Aya, instead I had Tenshi, Suwako, and Yuugi here.
Third reaction: patchy is taking damage from magic WHAT THE HELL
Fourth reaction: Eirin isn't spamming Astronomical Entombing? Lucky!
Fifth reaction: You have a perfectly good Alice there, quit using Iku for offense and buff her...oh, Reisen's dead already, never mind.
Overall, It was a pretty ugly fight but you pulled through without knowing all the tricks anyway. Of course if Eirin had used Entombing more you'd have been screwed. For good Eientei strategies the four posts starting here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg558253.html#msg558253) should help a bit. You do seem to be good to go for the next two floors though, if you just slap a couple PAR resistance items on Nitori. I'd highly recommend completely clearing out F13, because I moved up before doing so, then I got wrecked by the 14F bosses and Mokou. Are you going to use Reisen? You seem to like debuffing a lot, so she could be a good choice for your team.
Also, since I can't repeat it enough, NITORI PAR IMMUNITY. Why risk the best damage in the game getting frozen and useless for the next few turns?
In fact, next to DTH, Paralysis is probably the most important resistance to get, or arguably more so than DTH, even.
Also consider switching out Alice for this fight, cuz she's liable to get you killed.
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I have next to no paralysis resistance items. The best I have is a single para resistance ring, and I forgot to put it on Nitori before the fight.
Thankfully, the game was generous enough to give me 8 death resistance rings.
Since I have very little in terms of paralysis resistance, I always have Meiling active when Iku is sicklebacking my nukers.
Third reaction: patchy is taking damage from magic WHAT THE HELL
Yeah... I've been lazy in leveling up Patchouli's stats.
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I have next to no paralysis resistance items. The best I have is a single para resistance ring, and I forgot to put it on Nitori before the fight.
Thankfully, the game was generous enough to give me 8 death resistance rings.
The optimum would be to get 4 more death resistance rings. You might need them soon.
When I first read the Wiki about the Eientei-boss battle, I wondered how you were even supposed to figure out things like not being allowed to debuff the enemies. How would you know that's what would trigger Buddha's Stone Bowl? But I guess that's just how LoT rolls.
Figuring out that Hourai Barrage as well as Astronomical Entombing were triggered by Eirin's/Kaguya's death is a little easier.
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When I first read the Wiki about the Eientei-boss battle, I wondered how you were even supposed to figure out things like not being allowed to debuff the enemies. How would you know that's what would trigger Buddha's Stone Bowl? But I guess that's just how LoT rolls.
Figuring out that Hourai Barrage as well as Astronomical Entombing were triggered by Eirin's/Kaguya's death is a little easier.
Welcome to Etrian Odyssey Labyrinth of Touhou.
The name of the game is to learn from your horrible, horrible deaths.
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Welcome to Etrian Odyssey Labyrinth of Touhou.
The name of the game is to learn from your horrible, horrible deaths.
QFT so hard
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Labyrinth of Touhou - you know you're doing it right finally when you have nobody but Meiling left, and she punches out the boss.
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Labyrinth of Touhou - you know you're doing it right finally when you have nobody but Meiling left, and she punches out the boss.
meiling spending an hour soloing 22F boss underleveled is awesome
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Somoene punched out WinRar with Meiling. It was hilarious watching China punch out Winner. But that's also proof she's probably the best character in the game.
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Was the guy so overlevel that he could tank scourge?! At those levels... yeahhh...
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Winner doesn't HAVE Scourge ;P
...he doesn't have ANY particularly dangerous attacks other then Time Stop, really. Magical Tempest and Aule Hammer and Sword of Light can be a bit of a pain normally, but aren't anything to Meiling.
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Ahh, I thought it was one of his random phase 3 attacks, must be thinking of SoC
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I think someone earlier on mentioned that the character files were easily accessible? Where/what would they be? I'm curious, since I want to try messing around with them. Not that I'm a hex wizard or anything, but I think it'd be fun to try.
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Character files are in the save folder. Data about the floors are in there too iirc.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/Zeroku/thLabyrinth_ver32011-06-0120-39-57-29.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/Zeroku/thLabyrinth_ver32011-06-0120-39-35-61.jpg)
Oh god what have I done.
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rofl what DID you do
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I'm...guessing 16f isn't the one where there's random spots of blank space you can walk on by taking a teleporter somewhere? IIRC isn't there one like that, where screenshots like these would actually make sense?
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That was Floor 20 something.
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Well, I'm less than sure about how my little modifications ended up causing that, but I did learn something interesting out of it. It seems that Events like treasures, bosses, seals, etc, are all mapped to given coordinates, rather than actually built into the dungeon map itself. If you look carefully, you'll see that all those Events are actually shifted over exactly 4 squares to the right. In some cases, this results in them being outside of the walls, and there's nothing stopping that (part of why Floor 23 is even possible).
Interestingly enough, this has no effect at all on their function. I warp in at the new location of the Relay Point, the stairs still bring me up to the correct location in Floor 17 (not shifted over, since that only applies to Floor 16), the fight with Yukari works perfectly... heck, even the Seal that I can actually reach will, if I step on it, push me one space to the left. (Not that that actually does anything anymore).
Unintentional find, but I think it's kinda cool.
EDIT: Actually, looking again, that Seal should actually be in the middle of the U-turn hallway, meaning that it SHOULD push me down a space. It instead pushes me left, because pushing me Down or to the Right would result in me being pushed through the wall. Good to see they're not lazy with their programming.
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That is odd behavior, considering it's very possible to eject yourself through walls. Did it always send you left even if you entered from above it? If it still does, that makes me wonder why they didn't fix other gates from letting you leave the labyrinth.
For example:
It's only possible at intersections with a turn, so this intersection on Floor 11 was the first that I could think of. It works just like ignoring the one-way gates on the late plus disk floors. In this case, you press the opposite direction of where you wish to be put (Down here). Time it correctly, and when the gate forces you to backtrack, you're outside. This obviously only works when a gate won't let you pass.
(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g415/Teshlun/lot.jpg)
You are free to wander about after you've left the confines, just like Floor 23, but if you go too far in any given direction, the game crashes. You can reenter through the walls at any point, and in conjunction with the staircase picture below, can reach the relay point on Floor 12 much quicker. I'm sure there's other exploits that might be possible.
(http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g415/Teshlun/lot2.png)
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As massive as the whole puzzle and as hard the encounters of 10-12F might be, that's probably one of my favourite parts in the entire game.
It made me lose the urge to continue playing. I finished it and the boss battle, and haven't opened the game since. The whole puzzle was tedious, and going back and flipping switches yet again to pick up some of the items I missed was similarly tedious.
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I used the wiki for it through the 17th Floors. No lie.
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I did 7F completely by memory 8)
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I did 7F completely by memory 8)
Show off D:<
Rinnosuke is really pissing me off now!
Reimu lvl 104 (I think) and I only just got to the final phase for the first time.
And even then that was only due to Tenshi not taking any damage from the Wind form and beating it with WCP.
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I did 7F and 17F by drawing a map on paper, with notes where which teleporter leads to (I even had symbols for teleporters that were one-way or worked in a triangle). Now that sounds super-annoying I know, but it was actually extremely fun because it was so oldschool...I know I'm a freak. :smug:
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Yes you are.
Question: I know that getting Chen is mandatory to complete the game, but you don't actually have to have her until 9F, right? So does anything change if you hold off on getting her until then?
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She becomes even easier to beat. You could probably get Patchoulli to solo melee her.
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And you'll be cockblocked from the relay point at the end of the 9F maze, I guess ;P
So after you get Chen you'll have to walk through the whoooole thing again.
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What do you guys think I should do?
Level up Tenshi's defenses till she takes no damage at all from Rinnosuke (even after World Shaking Military Rule)?
Level up Meiling's defenses till she takes no damage from all but Rinnosuke's last form?
Or Level up my nukers so they can take a hit better?
We will be back with the result right after the break.
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Boost Meiling imo because defensive builds are king in the game and she'll be your main tank in postgame.
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Meiling because she's the best tank overall with the highest overall defenses and flexibility.
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Level up Tenshi's defenses till she takes no damage at all from Rinnosuke (even after World Shaking Military Rule)?
You can't do that because Rinnosuke's initial form has Rasetsu Fist. Even if you ignore its existence, FIR form has Hell Pyre (or whatever the English patch translated it to), which has a DEF factor of 20 and thus requires Tenshi to have 26000 DEF (after buffs) to take 0 damage from.
What you can do is to level until Tenshi can take no damage from any of Rinnosuke's elemental forms except Hell Pyre (which doesn't do much damage and can be reduced with FIR affinity), Get Meiling to tank you through initial form, then sic on Tenshi. Also, kill Rinnosuke ASAP when he's in final form.
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Hey, uh, has anyone found a good use for Yuka, in NG+ or Post game or anything?
I'm trying to use her, but I dunno how she should be built now...
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You can probably run her as another nuker. She's got really high bulk, but she's so slow, and only has Flower Shot as a low delay attack, so I'm not sure how well a stay-in attacker will work. She's pretty good as a defensive pivot, from what little I've used her, and a second Master Spark might be useful in taking down stuff in NG+.
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You can't do that because Rinnosuke's initial form has Rasetsu Fist. Even if you ignore its existence, FIR form has Hell Pyre (or whatever the English patch translated it to), which has a DEF factor of 20 and thus requires Tenshi to have 26000 DEF (after buffs) to take 0 damage from.
What you can do is to level until Tenshi can take no damage from any of Rinnosuke's elemental forms except Hell Pyre (which doesn't do much damage and can be reduced with FIR affinity), Get Meiling to tank you through initial form, then sic on Tenshi. Also, kill Rinnosuke ASAP when he's in final form.
I haven't beaten RInnosuke yet, but I just came up with a plan that will probably work given a few attempts.
Tenshi with State of Enlightenment takes 0 damage from everything except a few things like Rasetsu Fist. So once 3 people have died, you can have Tenshi stall the game indefinitely with focus/SoE spam. This allows:
1) Everyone to regain HP/SP for free
2) Ran to give everyone 100% DEF/MND (and also 100% ATK/MAG if you have the patience)
3) Aya/Sakuya to give most character close to 100% speed
4) All nukes to get 100% ATK/MAG or close
Unfortunately, this will probably drain all of Tenshi's TP, so you will be left with three slots. This should be ok as long as enough nukes survive to the final phase. Also, make sure none of the indispensable characters are among the 3 to die (Ran, speedsters, Reimu, etc.)
When Rinnosuke is on his last elemental form (hopefully not Fire, but even if so, just heal Tenshi every once in a while), stall again, and buff the remaining nukes again. Then just damage race the last form, which shouldn't be too hard as long as you kill him before Military Rule.
You can't predict which 3 characters will be sacrificed, but ideally it will be characters who have performed their functions (i.e.: Suwako after nuking away the WND form, etc)
EDIT: Heaven's Lightning may also damage Tenshi a bit, depending on your DEF/MND % at the time. Make sure to have someone heal Tenshi every once in a while.
NEW EDIT: Magic Drain on Tenshi = RAGEEEEEEEEEEE
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Actually, Fire Form is the lowest threat, and it's safe to switch a healer in on that form in order to heal Tenshi if he spams Explosive Flame Sword.
But that's also the general recommended strategy - switch everyone out whenever it's safe for Tenshi to sit in and tank.
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Yay finally beat Rinnosuke with that strategy. Ended up not using Tenshi toward the end because everyone had SP to burn.
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Rinnosuke is just incredibly random. The line between "being able to beat him" and "being able to beat him consistently" and "being able to beat him all the time" are really large for me.
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I still find that all you have to do is pass phase 1, even if messily.. and then the randomness amounts to "hit for peanuts colored blue", "hits for peanuts colored red", "hits for peanuts colored purple", etc >=P.
His ratsetsu fist is even the wussiest of pretty much all of the baddies in the game that use them. Especially compared to great stamp's, whose power is pretty much the same much earlier in the game (and lets not even mention his thousand fist khanon!). Despite dying faster, I still find Yukari to be far more dangrous. She just loves that really nasty insect nest spell for me, which seems to plow thru my tank's health as well as most armor piecing moves (and hit others to boot).
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Of course, experiences will vary depending on how you raise your characters.
I struggled with Kourin due to building a team of glass cannons, while Ghaleon's defensive team tanked him with ease. Conversely, Yukari for me was a breeze cuz I could literally 5-6HKO him with little trouble, but Ghaleon's lower power made it harder for him.
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Is new game+ harder than a normal new game to compensate for the fact that you can have 12 characters from the very beginning? And what about the skillpoint levels? Will I just breeze through the maingame without any challenge if I decide to keep my skillpointlevels from the save that unlocked new game+?
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The game difficulty doesn't scale for NG+. If you have anything carried over, it trivializes the game. Playing with just the extra characters available is about the same difficulty unless you pack DTH effect spells. The first few bosses have no resists.
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Hm.. I thought the NG+ only carried over the characters. I didn't know there were other options too.
I haven't beaten Winner yet. Got distracted away from the massive grind wall of 30F. I do plan on starting a new game again though...
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The game difficulty doesn't scale for NG+. If you have anything carried over, it trivializes the game. Playing with just the extra characters available is about the same difficulty unless you pack DTH effect spells. The first few bosses have no resists.
Thanks, I'll just play with the extra characters then.
I've got a problem though. I've just beaten the winner and saved the game after that, but new game+ doesn't show up in the title screen. I've got all 7 stars in Akyu's house. Is this a known problem and is there a solution to it?
Edit: I'm a retard, the game asked me if I want to carry over my characters, etc. after the prologue when I started playing a 'normal' new game.
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Carrying over skill points makes your characters start with several time their normal stats. Yeah, things get ridiculous from there on out. (Although it would have been cool to keep that Machine God Lucifer...)
Anyway, if anyone's interested, a friend of mine has been streaming a Labyrinth of Touhou runthrough lately. He's currently on floor 4 right now. If anyone wants to stop by, and perhaps chat with me and whoever else is watching, then please feel free to join us.
http://www.justin.tv/koishi__komeiji#/w/1342376592
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I FINALLY BEAT RINNOSUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TAKE THAT BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geez I hate that battle!
But I finished with 8 people left.
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(Although it would have been cool to keep that Machine God Lucifer...)
What happened?
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I meant just starting a new game while keeping all my equipment (which I did not end up doing in the end).
(And on a side note, I finally finished reading Mirai Nikki today.)
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I've got a question for all those who played new game+:
Doesn't Nitori show up in a random encounter on 7F in a new game+ playthrough?
I've already finished everything on that floor and just fought random battles for 30 minutes but didn't run into her, am I just extremely unlucky?
Edit: Went to the SDM and dropped Nitori from my team. Tried again -> first random encounter was the Nitori battle. Either i was EXTREMELY unlucky, or the game doesn't let you fight Nitori if Nitori is in your team of 12.
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I meant just starting a new game while keeping all my equipment (which I did not end up doing in the end).
Ah, I thought you forgot to unequip it or something and lost it starting a NG+.
I started playing the game again for the first time since *checks* February. The enemies on 13F are annoying since a few of them (including Amazoness Rabbits) are fast enough that they'll take their turns before almost all of my characters and I end up having to go back to Gensokyo since they keep killing off my sweepers (Patchy and Marisa are Shadowstich magnets...I don't think I've seen them use it on anything but the 3rd and 4th slots).
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Yay just finished the (regular) game today. Took a few tries to finish it, especially because Djinn Storm + ATK buff = AHHH I CAN'T EVEN HEAL. Fortunately she decided to spend a few turns doing 0 damage to Tenshi, allowing Patchy, Yuugi and Suika to recover some SP and finish her off.
Is it possible to transfer my save file to a plus-disk version somehow?
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Is it possible to transfer my save file to a plus-disk version somehow?
It should be, I was able to transfer my saves from 2.04 to 3.01, so I guess it should be possible to transfer saves from 1.xy to 2.04
What version is your game? If it's 2.04 or 2.06 you already have the plus disk installed. I recommend getting 3.01.
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Oh...I have 2.04, and it seems I can already access a small part of F21. Time to go get some stars...
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Hello all, I was around a while back (can't remember exactly when for the life of me, but w/e) enjoying this game but my interest eventually died out shortly after hitting floor 30. If I recall correctly, another game I was waiting for at the time kind of eclipsed my interest in going through the grind wall at the end ;)
Anyways, I was planning on going back through this again, actually completing the plus disk (final boss and all) and thought I'd use the new game+ file posted in the thread so that I could grab the team I wanted from the start this time around. So I thought I'd ask you all for some character recommendations for my play through.
My team from my last play through (at least by where I am now) was:
Meiling. Rinnosuke, Ran, Reimu, Aya, Mystia, Reisen, Iku, Youmu, Suwako, Shiki, Kaguya
I really want to use Iku again, because I love me my buffs from her (also, ridiculous mind tank). I wouldn't mind reusing some of the others, but otherwise I wanna mix it up with a slightly different party that I'll be able to beat everything with (without changing it up - I'd like to stick with the same 12 the entire game).
Anyways, I could pick up em all myself of course, but I thought I'd see if anyone would like to advise me some fun characters to use, considering I never really used most of them (I'm playing 3.01 for reference, although I don't know if it matters for anything other than Nitori here).
Hoping to hear some interesting opinions!
P.S. Great let's play btw Para, it's too bad you never finished the let's play portion of the plus disk with your underappreciated team (although I guess it wouldn't really have as much interesting stuff as the main game)
EDIT: Oh, and where should i put the NG+ data? It's not clear to me if it goes in a save slot (save1, save2, save3) or one of the others (data, saveNaN) as they all seem to have the exact same file contents (if not the same info in each file)
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Rename the NG+ to save1, 2, or 3. Whichever one you don't need to keep.
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Anyways, I could pick up em all myself of course, but I thought I'd see if anyone would like to advise me some fun characters to use
Some lategame characters like Okuu and Eiki
are almost unusable in the earlygame because of their ridiculously high SP-costs, other than that you can win with pretty much any team. I'd recommend Yukari
, since you apparently didn't use her and she has the same defensive buff as Reimu's Great Hakurei Barrier, I really found some bosses to be a lot more difficult without Great Hakurei Barrier/IN Quadruple Barrier. Also Nitori
is great in 3.01, Extending Arms is very useful on trash and a buffed Megawatt Gun is easily one of the strongest attacks in the game. Remilia can be built to be a quite effective and very fast physical damagedealer who can pretty much sit in slot2 24/7, but I assume you used her until F18 and replaced her with Rinnosuke
in your previous playthrough. Rumia
's healing spell might seem extremely weak in the earlygame but later on her MAG begins to rise faster than most characters HP and she can heal for decent amounts, especially if buffed by a character like Iku
.
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Some lategame characters like Okuu and Eiki
are almost unusable in the earlygame because of their ridiculously high SP-costs, other than that you can win with pretty much any team. I'd recommend Yukari
, since you apparently didn't use her and she has the same defensive buff as Reimu's Great Hakurei Barrier, I really found some bosses to be a lot more difficult without Great Hakurei Barrier/IN Quadruple Barrier. Also Nitori
is great in 3.01, Extending Arms is very useful on trash and a buffed Megawatt Gun is easily one of the strongest attacks in the game. Remilia can be built to be a quite effective and very fast physical damagedealer who can pretty much sit in slot2 24/7, but I assume you used her until F18 and replaced her with Rinnosuke
in your previous playthrough. Rumia
's healing spell might seem extremely weak in the earlygame but later on her MAG begins to rise faster than most characters HP and she can heal for decent amounts, especially if buffed by a character like Iku
.
I'm pretty sure nobody cares about spoilering names any more. Besides, it's not like we can't guess which character has a card called IN Quadraple Barrier anyways.
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Haha yeah, I can imagine that there's likely almost no one who would come here at this point who would be spoiled by it. I know I spoilered my party out of habit from back when I played the game originally and frequented the thread.
Some lategame characters like Okuu and Eiki are almost unusable in the earlygame because of their ridiculously high SP-costs, other than that you can win with pretty much any team. I'd recommend Yukari, since you apparently didn't use her and she has the same defensive buff as Reimu's Great Hakurei Barrier, I really found some bosses to be a lot more difficult without Great Hakurei Barrier/IN Quadruple Barrier. Also Nitori is great in 3.01, Extending Arms is very useful on trash and a buffed Megawatt Gun is easily one of the strongest attacks in the game. Remilia can be built to be a quite effective and very fast physical damagedealer who can pretty much sit in slot2 24/7, but I assume you used her until F18 and replaced her with Rinnosuke in your previous playthrough. Rumia's healing spell might seem extremely weak in the earlygame but later on her MAG begins to rise faster than most characters HP and she can heal for decent amounts, especially if buffed by a character like Iku.
I actually dropped Remiliar much earlier to be honest - I was kinda turned off by her only having two abilities at the time (although I now realize that having two abilities to use effectively in perpetuity is more than some characters have). I think I may very well use Yukari - I figured since I hadn't used Rumia (who you mentioned too) I could grab Yukari/Rumia to replace Reimu and use Iku to buff Rumia for the heal, and the actually decent nuke. I also wanted to use Nitori. So, with those and others I think I want to bring (I'll probably change a couple characters late-game though)...
Remilia (Tanky DPS) - ATK Build
Yukari (Off-Tank/Def Buff/Support) - DEF/MND Build?
Iku (Mind Tank/Off Buff) - MND Build
Nitori (Phys Nuker) - ATK Build
Rumia (Healer/Mag Nuker) - MAG Build
Minoriko(Healer/Support) - ???
Mystia (Phys Nuker/Trash Killer) - ATK Build
Not sure atm otw...Yuyuko/Rin/Kanako interst me, and I plan to at least use Eiki and/or Kaguya at some point (I just love the DEF ignoring propery so much, dunno when I'll bring them in though). Also might want a desperation nuker... Also thinking of tanking with Tenshi, but I'm worried I won't have the HP with her to tank most of the time. Any advice on that front? Will she be ok despite the increasing def-ignoring attacks as the game goes on or should I stick with my original tank, Meiling? (Don't really want to use Komachi for that purpose, as I really don't care to use Eirin, and I'd rather not use Rinnosuke as a tank - don't think he levels fast enough to make his amazing growths good enough for main tank purposes).
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Also thinking of tanking with Tenshi, but I'm worried I won't have the HP with her to tank most of the time. Any advice on that front? Will she be ok despite the increasing def-ignoring attacks as the game goes on or should I stick with my original tank, Meiling? Don't really want to use Komachi for that purpose, as I really don't care to use Eirin
Tenshi is good on bosses without defense-ignoring attacks and ridiculous on bosses with composite attacks (0 damage from Flandre's Laevateinn after selfbuff) but gets 1HKO'd by any boss with rasetsu fist. You will need another tank for those bosses. You don't need Eirin if you want to use Komachi, Minoriko can heal her just as well and most of the time Reimu alone is enough. I'm not sure, but I think even a full ATK-built Remilia should be able to serve as a good tank for Bosses where Tenshi doesn't cut it, at least during the maingame.
If you plan to use Minoriko you don't need to invest in her MAG much. Her healspell will heal most characters for 100% even if you use most level-up bonuses for raising her MND.
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Tenshi is good on bosses without defense-ignoring attacks and ridiculous on bosses with composite attacks (0 damage from Flandre's Laevateinn after selfbuff) but gets 1HKO'd by any boss with rasetsu fist. You will need another tank for those bosses. You don't need Eirin if you want to use Komachi, Minoriko can heal her just as well and most of the time Reimu alone is enough. I'm not sure, but I think even a full ATK-built Remilia should be able to serve as a good tank for Bosses where Tenshi doesn't cut it, at least during the maingame.
If you plan to use Minoriko you don't need to invest in her MAG much. Her healspell will heal most characters for 100% even if you use most level-up bonuses for raising her MND.
Would ATK Komachi develop sufficient HP to tank the bosses who love to ignore defense, especially in postgame?
EDIT: wait I still have my old postgame file I'll just check that when I get home.
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Would ATK Komachi develop sufficient HP to tank the bosses who love to ignore defense, especially in postgame?
EDIT: wait I still have my old postgame file I'll just check that when I get home.
While ATK Komachi still have a very nice HP and everything, I dunno if she has the amount you need.
But there's still absolutely nothing that some skill points can't fix.
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It's not like you'd need obscene amounts of HP for the main game, anyway. It's really in the post game where Tenshi won't do that well, since almost everything gets defense piercing attacks.
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Not like Meiling can't tank everything that Komachi can't handle. There's only one boss where Komachi's superior, anyways.
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It's not like you'd need obscene amounts of HP for the main game, anyway. It's really in the post game where Tenshi won't do that well, since almost everything gets defense piercing attacks.
True, true. I planned on making some switches for post-game anyways, just want to try out and enjoy characters I haven't played yet.
I think my final party will look like this:
Tenshi - DEF/MND
Yukari - DEF/MND
Orin - ATK or ATK/MAG
Suika - ATK
Komachi - HP or ATK
Minoriko - MND
Rumia - MAG
Iku - MND
Remilia - ATK or DEF or ATK/DEF
Alice - MAG
Mystia - ATK
Nitori - ATK
How's that look? Any opinions on how I should build Remilia with this party? I'm unsure how I should build her considering what I'm placing around her.
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Looks good. For Orin, stick to pure ATK, or, I might sound a little crazy, maybe a bit of MND can't hurt either. Same with Suika. Not more than let's say, 10-15% of the level up points, but it does notably improve their already good mind. Komachi should have primarily attack, although splitting HP/ATK at your discretion works well too - my Komachi with no ATK gear and only HP+ gear still has as much attack as some of my not-Nitori/Yuugi attackers.
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The only thing about Komachi versus Meiling is that while Komachi can be a very nice attacker and tank at the same time, she can't use defensive buffs to prevent damage. This... reduces the use of full party buffs like Keine's and Reimu's and Yukari's, and therefore her only upkeep comes from healing (preferably Minoriko, or Sanae or Eirin if you feel the need).
Oh, and debuffs, too, but they're piddly weak.
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Remilia - ATK or DEF or ATK/DEF
I'd stick to either pure DEF/MND or pure ATK on Remilia, other than that everything looks good. Since you're taking Komachi, Tenshi and Yukari, I'd say you should spend all of Remi's lvl-up bonuses on ATK. It's not like she can't tank a bit even if you use all her points in ATK.
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Remilia will thank you for not splitting points. Pure attack would be best, as Nerv pointed out, you have a ton of tanks already, and Spear The Gungnir's meh damage formula and Iku aren't doing Remilia's ability to self-buff any favors.
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Haha, I always like to have at least one attacker who isn't always expected to have buffs from someone else. It makes it a lot easier to work out rotations in some battles where buffing time and party spaces are extremely precious due to boss speed and other factors. Not to mention there are a bunch of higher priority buff targets.
Thanks for all the comments and criticism all! Should be fun going through the game again with this party (although it'll get switched up some for post-game).
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I wonder why Curse of Vlad Tepes also increases Remilia's MAG in addition to her ATK, DEF and MND. She doesn't use that stat at all. Maybe she was planned to have some spells that use her MAG, but they decided to cut these spells and her MAG-growth and left her selfbuff as it was.
Edit: Nevermind, Reisen's selfbuff also increases her ATK, even though she doesn't use it. Seems like the developers didn't like pure ATK / pure MAG buffs.
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Well, been going on in the game (already finished 8F, although I haven't fought the Foe or Suwako yet - my levels are a bit low because I practically sprinted through 7F as compared to the last time I was there and mapped out every single teleporter result in MS Word) and decided that I really don't like Tenshi. She's got great DEF/MND, but it just doesn't seem to typically be enough to offset her HP oftentimes. Also, her self-buff seemed superfluous, what with Yukari and Minoriko buffing defenses. Simiarly, as I love using Iku and only have 1 PAR resistance equip at this point, I really need someone else other than Mystia (as in, someone who's always in, hint hint) to help take care of these status effects (Not to mention the PSN/PAR on Remilia for her self buff). Anyways, as a result I'm going back to using Meiling as my main tank over Tenshi - she just seems to fit into my party much better than Tenshi. IIRC, I think I might have had the same problem last time around too - who knows though.
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Anyways, as a result I'm going back to using Meiling as my main tank over Tenshi
There are a few bosses where Tenshi really shines, but other than that Meiling is simply the better tank in this game. At least in my opinion.
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There are a few bosses where Tenshi really shines, but other than that Meiling is simply the better tank in this game. At least in my opinion.
Other than tanking ridiculous composite attacks, Tenshi can use sword of rapture to prevent some bosses from becoming utterly destructive (for instance, cancelling out Overflowing Natural Power). Doesn't work all the time, but it only needs to work a few times to give you breathing room.
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Well now... Eientei, for all the worrying I'd done, was...rather disappointing.
2nd attempt I won. Basically I started by having Cirno and Suwako do a bit of para-haxing, then with help from Reimu's healing and some Sticklebacked Royal Flares(40 something k to Eirin in one shot!) and some Return Inanimateness castings, Eirin died first, despite having the most HP, then I laid into Kaguya til she fell. Reisen? Well, she DID Focus, but I wiped her out RIGHT before Mind Starmine, though I did have Iku out to tank the blow anyway in case somehow the others got wiped by it, so basically Reisen was nothing. The Discarders throughout the fight were annoying though.
Reimu 53 might've been why I basically laid waste to them though, since IIRC the recommended level is 50-55... On to Floor 13!
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There are a few bosses where Tenshi really shines, but other than that Meiling is simply the better tank in this game. At least in my opinion.
Despite Meiling's lower attack, Meiling seems puts out consistently better numbers on offense than Tenshi (due to having a superior attack skill), can heal herself, unlike Tenshi, and can comfortably take almost anything Tenshi can. Tenshi's main niches are Sword of Rapture and being able to shut out certain bosses.
Other than tanking ridiculous composite attacks, Tenshi can use sword of rapture to prevent some bosses from becoming utterly destructive (for instance, cancelling out Overflowing Natural Power). Doesn't work all the time, but it only needs to work a few times to give you breathing room.
Even then, it's not necessary, and somewhat unreliable. It CAN help versus certain bosses (outside of Komachi, I don't see anyone taking a souped up Giga Flare), but that's only if it works. By the way, Tenshi's a terrible tank for Okuu, since Okuu hits hard enough to break through her even at 100% buffs. Meiling can also take most of the same composite attacks as Tenshi anyways and heal it off herself. Tenshi's major advantage is preserving turns (Tenshi might not need to heal).
IMO, Tenshi's main job is to tank for boss battles where you need to keep healing at a minimum (due to SP reasons or because you need to quickly defeat the boss), OR act as a second tank to assist Meiling in switching teammates out and in quickly, and not die. She does it spectacularly, but in most standard boss battles, Meiling does an already excellent job and can play more roles than switching.
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So if Tenshi and Meiling are out, who takes which slot and why?
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So if Tenshi and Meiling are out, who takes which slot and why?
I wouldn't have both of them out at the same time, both of them are 'slot 1 tanks', but I'd put Meiling in slot 1. Some bosses have big attacks that always hit the character furthest to the left, if that's some defense-piercing move it can probably kill Tenshi.
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Yeah, I had Tenshi in my first playthru and I thought her sword of rapture was utter crap. It failed more often than not, by a LOT. And while you might say it helps alot if it works. When it doesn't... Thing is Tenshi's hp is so gimped that if there is a superpowered boss out there and her sword of rapture doesn't put it back in line, she will most likely be 1shot by the next hit. Meiling on the other hand, can take such a hit, furthermore, her self heal will allow her to take a 2nd, and it never fails, not to mention its faster too IIRC.
I've said it before many times, but the game simply needs more tanks. There's little to no variety. Everyone else just doesn't match up to china, and the number of runner ups are few as well.
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So if Tenshi and Meiling are out, who takes which slot and why?
I generally put Tenshi in slot 1 unless the boss has a defense ignoring move, due to higher defense, and have two supporters who can take anything the boss dishes out, usually Yukari and Reimu, come in whenever the boss is about to attack.
EDIT:
I should point out that this isn't optimal for most bosses, but when the extra staying power is desired, it really comes in handy.
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I know. It's just theorycrafting.
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So, this is totally random, but in case you haven't seen this yet:
-----SPOILER ALERT!!!!-----
This is a battle between the "worst characters in the game" (based on info on the wikia) plus Meiling against the final boss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcxRr8YnyeM
------SPOILER IS OVER!!!!-----------
No one should ever say any character "sucks", characters never suck, only gamers suck.
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Wait, how are Minoriko, Nitori and Iku among the "worst"? I've always found them immensely useful.
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That was actually just (mostly) characters who were "underappreciated" at the release of Special Disk. Since then, most of them have been viewed much better, and most of them really are quite nice.
In fact, several of them are practically must-haves, like Nitori and Iku.
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So, this is totally random, but in case you haven't seen this yet:
-----SPOILER ALERT!!!!-----
This is a battle between the "worst characters in the game" (based on info on the wikia) plus Meiling against the final boss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcxRr8YnyeM
------SPOILER IS OVER!!!!-----------
No one should ever say any character "sucks", characters never suck, only gamers suck.
We're not saying X sucks, so much as X does the same job as Y, but Y does the job better for Z reasons.
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Still, that gameplay easily proves ANY party (with some minimal balance at least) can beat the game fairly easily, if you play by the characters strong points.
Of course, some characters' strong points are easier to see and exploit, while others' are more tricky and actually require some planning, the latter tend to be considered "worse" by people.
I mean, some guys are just way too lazy, I even remember someone saying Yukari was terrible in an old thread here, talk about ignoring a character's strong points; the guy that made the video I posted up there beat one of the most difficult bosses in the game without even taking damage thanks to Yukari.
EDIT: I'm not trying to be picky with anyone, it's just that it kinds of piss me off when characters in a game get a bad rep because people don't know how to use them.
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That was actually just (mostly) characters who were "underappreciated" at the release of Special Disk. Since then, most of them have been viewed much better, and most of them really are quite nice.
In fact, several of them are practically must-haves, like Nitori and Iku.
Well, that's a fairly old video, so I imagine many of them got some "appreciation" since then, thankfully. But we still see a lot of people bashing Rumia and Wriggle for example.
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Wriggle was a fine tank and Rumia was the healer of my Team (9) run. After over 6.4k posts about this game I think we've covered a lot of who's good where scenarios.
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Hey, finally managed to make this work.
I'm having a problem though, for some weird reason parts of the gamescreen are off my TV screen ( I use my TV as the computer screen), I thought it was the TV but it's not. Any idea what could be happening here?
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Play windowed I guess?
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Now that I think about it, I wonder how broken some characters would be if they had more X.
Tenshi having more health, Meiling with more ATK and MND, Reimu with any higher growths period...
And I also wonder how certain characters who did not make it in would play.
I can imagine Tewi being either a troll or a support unit, Momiji a tank, Byakuren being a physical Reisen.
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Well, that's a fairly old video, so I imagine many of them got some "appreciation" since then, thankfully. But we still see a lot of people bashing Rumia and Wriggle for example.
Rumia's being bashed LESS, really; she's come into a role of being a good multi-heal to back up Reimu in Plus Disk, along with being able to dish out decent damage with Moonlight Ray. The fact that she's the ONLY multi-heal that can back up Reimu (Yuuka with a high delay 10% heal doesn't count, sorry.) makes her quite worth considering to use.
Wriggle is also being bashed less, because she actually does AMAZING damage with her PSN... in the maingame. There's no getting around that in Plus Disk, her PSN does crap for damage, and while she's not a terrible tank, seriously, there's tons people who could be a better tank AND have something else they can do too. She gets obsolete like Cirno does, but she's very useful for a significant portion of the game (Both of them are droppable after Yukari, really, although Wriggle is still totally fine for using up till end of maingame if you like; Cirno not so much, unless you REALLY want her fast PAR for randoms)
Depending on how much you care about having the best person for any job and not just characters you like using, almost everyone is totally viable; much of the cast goes out of style in a top-efficiency scenario, but nearly everyone is totally fine otherwise if they're used well (With absolutely everyone being good at some point or another of the game. Except Utsuho, unless you really count being support damage to Kaguya in Dual Hibachi fight as enough to redeem her. She's viable for use I guess, but definitely not exciting...).
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Except Utsuho, unless you really count being support damage to Kaguya in Dual Hibachi fight as enough to redeem her. She's viable for use I guess, but definitely not exciting...).
Hmm I just got Utsuho, but I'm not sure how much to invest in her. Is she really worth the extra damage to fight Kedamagrammaton with?
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Hmm I just got Utsuho, but I'm not sure how much to invest in her. Is she really worth the extra damage to fight Kedamagrammaton with?
I bow to you for beating Okuu before Kedamagrammaton.
And no, she is not. Nitori, buffed Yuugi, Patchy, Shiki, Kaguya, Suika and even a few of the other characters can put out reasonable numbers. Beyond Shiki, Nitori and Kaggy is probably excess considering how easy it is for them to hit 1 mil with buffs and Kedamagrammaton only has 5 million health.
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Wait, how are Minoriko, Nitori and Iku among the "worst"? I've always found them immensely useful.
As the guy who made that video, perhaps I ought to explain my choices.
I started "Team Unappreciated" shortly after Ver. 3.01 came out as a sort of experiment to test out characters that I haven't really used before, and were generally regarded as mediocre. Meiling is the major exception; when I first started, I had claimed that I was confident I could beat the game with any team as long as I had Meiling and a healer of some sort. As for my other choices...
Minoriko - All right, so at the time I made that team, most people were starting to see how good she was already. However, it wasn't really that long ago that it seemed everyone liked Sanae more. Well, I always liked Minoriko (she's actually one of my favorite Touhou characters in general), so I wanted to show that she can keep up as main healer even without Reimu for support.
Rumia - She was definitely one of the least used characters, and probably still is. My main goal with her was to show that she can contribute more than just a good damage formula on Moonlight Ray. Dark Side of the Moon turned out to be a dud (it's still way too weak at pretty much every point of the game), but getting MAG buffs on Demarcation turned her into a competent group healer in the Plus Disk.
Wriggle - Poison is much-maligned, and that's not surprising given how difficult it is to measure. One of my goals with Team Unappreciated was to calculate just how much damage Wriggle was contributing with poison. Since I recorded all of the boss fights, I could easily go back and tally up the damage dealt, then subtract that from the boss's HP to find poison damage. I concluded that Wriggle's poison is quite powerful in the main game and definitely worth a party slot, but gets severely outclassed in the Plus Disk due to everyone being faster (thus giving less time for poison to work). She's still a great 2nd slot subtank, though.
Iku - She's the discovery that I'm most proud of. Before I started Team Unappreciated, I don't think I knew anyone who used her seriously on their main team. Her wiki entry was full of wrong information, describing her defenses as "average'" (lol best MND tank in the game) and listing Thundercloud Stickleback as giving only +50% ATK/MAG. I think the earlier tier lists I read listed her as low tier, or thereabouts. Even I myself bought into that. I'll confess that when I was first drafting up Team Unappreciated, I left Iku off the list because I had no clue how I was suppose to use her (my goal was to let each character shine in some way). Someone else had to convince me to give her a try. Soon, it hit me that Thundercloud Stickleback was actually giving +72% despite its in-game description. Then I discovered her monstrous MND growth (after wasting 60+ lvl bonuses on MAG). Eventually, my perspective changed from her being low tier to wondering how I ever played this game without her.
Nitori - When I started up the team, I had a hunch that she was going to be good. However, remember that I started the team right after 3.01 came out. Back in the 2.04 days, Nitori was hardly ever used by anyone. That's because the old damage formula for Megawatt Linear Gun wasn't that amazing. Well, it was pretty good, but Nitori's subpar stats really hurt its performance. After switching to 3.01, though, the damage became incredible. I knew it had been buffed, but I didn't realize just how big a difference it was. It didn't take too long after 3.01's release for people to figure out that Nitori is a top tier damage dealer now, but when I first made this team most people weren't sure just how much better she had gotten.
Reisen - The other discovery that I'm proud of. Reisen was considered by many to be the absolute worst character in the game. You should have seen her old wiki entry; it all but outright said so! And of course, I believed it too. But then I stumbled upon a detail that was missing from her wiki data page: Grand Patriot's Elixir has a post-use gauge of 84%. That's absolutely INSANE for such a strong buff! Once she had enough SP to spam it during boss fights, she easily became an awesome damage dealer that could also debuff well. I didn't even care about the debuffs in most of the Plus Disk fights; just her DPS with Mind Starmine was enough. In the Plus Disk, she was second only to Nitori in terms of damage output. She's still one of my pet favorites in the game now.
Mokou - She's a really "average" mage-type character, and I'll admit that I didn't really show her to be fantastic or anything. I don't think people thought she was "bad" per se, just really boring and typical. She trades some damage for survivability and is not limited to a single element like many other mages are, but I think I failed to show her off adequately, especially compared to the next character. Sometimes I wonder if she'd appear to be better if I didn't use the next character. Still, her survivability was important for me, as I often switched her in to take a hit in place of Nitori (who pretty much never got hit throughout almost the entire Plus Disk; I'm not risking my best weapon!).
Orin - At the time, popular opinion was that Orin was great at clearing floor trash, but poor against bosses. I set out to disprove this notion, and I'd like to think that I've at least gotten people to reconsider. Blazing Wheel really is a great nuke for most boss fights. It has the most powerful damage formula of any composite spell in the game, and Orin's stats are just good enough to make use of it. Her high speed is also key, as it lets her spam Blazing Wheel (which doesn't really have terrible delay in the first place) while staying in. I even found a niche use for Cat's Walk (see my Flame Tyrant video). She can usually take a hit from magic thanks to her high MND growth, and to be honest, Blazing Wheel was slightly outdamaging Fujiyama Volcano in almost every battle. I suppose she stole some of Mokou's thunder...I'll admit that I like her more thank Mokou.
Keine - General consensus was that Keine is average in every sense of the word. And after taking her all the way through 30 floors...I'd have to agree. She never stood out aside from above-average durability, and her ability to buff an entire party's offenses was kind of overshadowed by how broken Thundercloud Stickleback is. And yet, she never disappointed me either. She fulfilled her duty reliably, but didn't go above and beyond any expectations. All I have to say is that I wouldn't be unwilling to have to use her for offensive buffs instead of Iku or Ran, but I'd still rather have Iku. I bet if I didn't have Iku on my team, she'd shine a lot more.
Maribel - Everyone was saying that she's probably OK on paper, but no one ever seems to talk about actually trying her out. So that's exactly what I did. To be honest, I found her to be a little worse than Reisen, which is by no means an insult, as I thought Reisen was great. If I didn't have Reisen on the team, I'd probably have appreciated her a little more. As it stands, I think all I ended up demonstrating is that she's perfectly usable, but not particularly exciting. Oh well. I liked her spread of elements, at least.
Renko - Another "good on paper" character, but actual stories of people using her were hard to find. Some people were probably put off by her non-existant damage output. Well, I thought Cirno wasn't that bad for the main story during my earlier Let's Play, so I tried her out...and found out exactly why she's normally only recruited when you're halfway through the Plus Disk. Galaxy Stop and Debilitate are both incredible, and completely shatters the difficulty curve of the main game. In fact, I had to stop using her until I got to the 20F boss because she just made things too easy. Her usefulness in the Plus Disk started to deminish near the very end, though, as the 30F bosses boast some pretty high resistances to PAR and debuffs. To be honest, I didn't think Charge was that great in practice (only really used it for maybe 2 boss fights), but her other abilities still made her worth it against the vast majority of bosses. Just keep in mind that there are a few that she's nearly useless for, so it might be better to leave her as a substituted and switch her in for certain boss fights where she'll clean house.
Well...that went on a lot longer than I expected. But those were my thoughts concerning Team Unappreciated.
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That was very informative. Thank you very much. (Also, I made the decision to try Reisen out on my next playthrough :3)
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That was very informative. Thank you very much. (Also, I made the decision to try Reisen out on my next playthrough :3)
Reisen is probably high tier for me.
Completely making Yukari into your bitch? Yes please.
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Iku - She's the discovery that I'm most proud of. Before I started Team Unappreciated, I don't think I knew anyone who used her seriously on their main team. Her wiki entry was full of wrong information, describing her defenses as "average'" (lol best MND tank in the game) and listing Thundercloud Stickleback as giving only +50% ATK/MAG. I think the earlier tier lists I read listed her as low tier, or thereabouts. Even I myself bought into that. I'll confess that when I was first drafting up Team Unappreciated, I left Iku off the list because I had no clue how I was suppose to use her (my goal was to let each character shine in some way). Someone else had to convince me to give her a try. Soon, it hit me that Thundercloud Stickleback was actually giving +72% despite its in-game description. Then I discovered her monstrous MND growth (after wasting 60+ lvl bonuses on MAG). Eventually, my perspective changed from her being low tier to wondering how I ever played this game without her.
Reisen - The other discovery that I'm proud of. Reisen was considered by many to be the absolute worst character in the game. You should have seen her old wiki entry; it all but outright said so! And of course, I believed it too. But then I stumbled upon a detail that was missing from her wiki data page: Grand Patriot's Elixir has a post-use gauge of 84%. That's absolutely INSANE for such a strong buff! Once she had enough SP to spam it during boss fights, she easily became an awesome damage dealer that could also debuff well. I didn't even care about the debuffs in most of the Plus Disk fights; just her DPS with Mind Starmine was enough. In the Plus Disk, she was second only to Nitori in terms of damage output. She's still one of my pet favorites in the game now.
Well...that went on a lot longer than I expected. But those were my thoughts concerning Team Unappreciated.
Yeah, I used those two myself on my first playthrough (where I didn't finish the plus disk). I actually started using Iku about the same time you were realizing how good she was (I think I went MND with her on your recommendation - I remember corresponding with you a few times in PMs on GitP). I just can't imagine playing without Iku now lol, so much value in her.
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Pretty sure the wiki actually said Iku's buff only gave 40% too, not 50%. It was pretty bad. Honestly I don't think anybody would have thought she wouldn't be great knowing that the figures were just wrong. I think I mentioned it earlier, but yeah, charge sucks. I used renko in my last playthru without having iku or ran or keine, or any other offensive buffer sans kaggy, who isn't really an atk/mag buffer so much as an action bar buffer. But the sad fact is charge is very difficult to use safely due to its rather crippling side effect...or both of them rather. It doesn't help that you neuter your whole team temporarily, only to get good use of the buff on just 2 people most likely, since renko herself obviously doesn't benefit from the attack stats, and chances are your tank wont really either. Is it really worth inflicting a forbidden fruit AND starbrow break (though weaker) side effect on the entire damn party just to give 2 guys a 40% buff? err..umm..no.
Knowing iku gives 72% though, I still think I'll like ran more (not that I don't think anybody doesn't like ran in this game), if only because I don't have to par-resist the whole party, and I don't have to leave a potentially squishy member out for both buffs AND nuking, much easier to just keep em safe until buffed and let em loose. I'll try her out eventually though.
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Is it really worth inflicting a forbidden fruit AND starbrow break (though weaker) side effect on the entire damn party just to give 2 guys a 40% buff? err..umm..no.
Knowing iku gives 72% though, I still think I'll like ran more (not that I don't think anybody doesn't like ran in this game), if only because I don't have to par-resist the whole party, and I don't have to leave a potentially squishy member out for both buffs AND nuking, much easier to just keep em safe until buffed and let em loose. I'll try her out eventually though.
Charge buffs by 75%, not 40, iirc. But it's true that it's very difficult to use and most of the time it's probably not worth it.
I used Ran on my first playthrough instead of Iku and I loved her back then, but Ran doesn't get the SP to buff the party to high percents until you hit the Plus Disk content. Not needing high PAR-resistance on everyone is a big plus though.
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Iku really requires you manipulate your party's speed stat so that she and the nuker barely outspeed the tank AND the enemy. Alternatively, you can have Iku barely underspeed the tank.
Ran is still easier to use. You can also use both to surprising effect.
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:toot: Game Completed!!!!
Now onto Plus Disk :D
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:toot: Game Completed!!!!
Now onto Plus Disk :D
Nice. Now get ready for some more ridiculousness from the game.
Wow Kedamagrammaton was surprisingly easy. It looks like Komachi wasn't needed because Marisa (with only 27k hp) actually survived Rankain.
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Rankain doesn't pierce MND very well, and Marisa's MND is pretty decent.
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Harrothar. I'm playing Labyrinth Of Touhou Special Disc, english patched version 3.01. Somehow, I can't get the Cheat Engine to work. After starting the CE, then LoT, putting in the cheat table, I get ?? values and I am unable to change them or freeze them. I've tried adding 00010000 to the addresses and It doesn't work. Could someone please help meh?
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It's been a long time since I did anything on LoT's CE. Did you take the cheat table for Special Disk?
There is also the issue that my cheats will only work with XP. You'll need different hex offsets for other operating systems.
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Yeah, I know it's been a really long time. I've been lurking here sinc- I am the bone of my Sword.
I have little to no experience or knowledge of how in god's name do I use the CE. And Yeah, I took the CT for the Special Disk. I'm using Windows 7 Home Premium. I've tried to "hex offsets" but I bet I did it wrongly because I got a P>?????? address. If I had time and the endurance to be able to continue grinding my Marisa~, I would. Apparently my neck starts hurting real bad after 2 hours on LoT. Damn, Really sad on this. :/.
Edit: The Verification doesn't accept Jun'ya Ota for the question: Who is the Creator of Touhou. Sadfaec. I tried BEER too.
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Cheat Engine comes with a practice tutorial for you to get the hang of using it. Basically just search for a value, change it, search for the new value based on how you changed it and you keep doing it until a single address is narrowed down. Then you can edit that value for however you want.
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It's been a long time since I did anything on LoT's CE. Did you take the cheat table for Special Disk?
There is also the issue that my cheats will only work with XP. You'll need different hex offsets for other operating systems.
I call complete bull on that. It worked for me on Vista 100% of the time.
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But what value do I search for? When I search the number of exp gained, I get a helload of addresses and I have totally no idea which one to change. :/.
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But what value do I search for? When I search the number of exp gained, I get a helload of addresses and I have totally no idea which one to change. :/.
What you need to do for EXP gained is win a fight, input the exp you get but don't change anything. Enter another fight, select new search (I think it is, i haven't used the cheat engine for awhile) enter the new EXP value and repeat until you get a single value. Usually you get it at the second search. From there just put in the experience you want and bam.
Same thing works for Skill points
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Gonna test it out, thanks. I'm hoping I can get the correct addresses. Teehee.
Edit: It doesn't seem to be working, I keep getting over 2k addresses, however, some are black, and next scan doesn't work. So I keep using New Scan.
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You don't use New Scan.
You're supposed to use Next Scan.
I have no idea why it supposedly doesn't work for you.
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Gonna test it out, thanks. I'm hoping I can get the correct addresses. Teehee.
Edit: It doesn't seem to be working, I keep getting over 2k addresses, however, some are black, and next scan doesn't work. So I keep using New Scan.
It should work...When you win a battle, you want to stay at the after battle screen (before pressing Z to actually give everyone the exp/skill points) and enter the value. Make sure the drop-down list is set to Exact value and the checkbox for Hex is not checked. Hit New Scan after putting in the value and see what comes out. Back ingame get out of the post-battle screen, enter a new battle, and do the same thing except this time after putting in the new value press the Next Scan button. You should have a single value, so select it, press the red arrow to bring it to the bottom of the screen. Right click that, go into edit, then value. Put in the number you want, then when you return to the game the exp/skill points should be the value you entered.
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Make sure you've selected to search All Addresses, it's on 32 bit default.
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I uninstalled my Cheat Engine and reinstalled the latest version of it. Works fine now, but I'm unable to find the Monster Encounter Percentage... thing.
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I uninstalled my Cheat Engine and reinstalled the latest version of it. Works fine now, but I'm unable to find the Monster Encounter Percentage... thing.
Choose 'Float' for value type and 'Value between' for scan type.
Example: You enter Floor 1 and make a few steps. Your Encounter Percentage is 11.6%, search for floats between 11 and 12. Make a few steps again, your Percentage is now 33.8%, search for values between 33 and 34 with the 'next scan' option. There should be only 1 adress left.
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Gonna try it tomorrow. Gonna sleep now.
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I'm approaching floor 30, so I'm wondering: is floor 29 better for grinding than floor 27? The exp is better, but the skill points pale in comparison due to the lack of Liliths.
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Okay, so I decided to start again from the beginning since I got hung up on the floor 7 boss, likely due in part to having screwed up builds.
I started playing it long before I found this thread, just to let you guys know.
So, I did some grinding on floor 2 so I could beat Chen and Meiling.
Right now my team is as follows.
Reimu = HP/MND/DEF
Marisa = Pure MAG
Patchy = MAG/MND
Sakuya = Heavy ATK/Moderate DEF
Remilia = Same as Sakuya, but more, and with decent HP too.
Chen = Heavy ATK, Moderate SPD
Meiling = Heavy HP/DEF, Moderate MND
So here's what I'm asking, who should go where, now that I have Chen and Meiling?
My normal lineup is like this.
Remi = Slot 1
Reimu = Slot 2
Sakuya = Slot 3
Marisa = Slot 4
And Patchy, Chen, and Meiling are chilling in backup until I can figure out what to do with 'em.
I can't even handle a lone Peg Insect yet. I'm around Lv7-10, and only just recently recruited Chen and Meiling as of this post.
When I fought Chen, Remi's gungnirs(unbuffed, didn't want to risk it) were dinging her for 700+, and Marisa's Magic Missile(no spark yet, only 139 SP) was hitting 500+, despite me having sunk all her levels into MAG, and sunk a fair bit of skillpoints into it too, enough to get it to Lv10. Sakuya was hitting comparble to Remi with Killer Doll, and Reimu was giving buffs the whole time, didn't even need to heal with Remi, Reimu, and Sakuya being pretty tanky, thanks to buffs and build.
Even on floor 2, Patchy's Royal Flare can hit upwards of 1k+, most it's ever dealt was around 14xx.
So basically, Reimu's a slot 2 tank, Remi's the main tank/off nuker, Sakuya's whatever I need at the time, and Marisa's just a Nuker, like she always is.
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First of all I would put heavy SPD for Chen until late main game and then switch to ATK.
My Chen has already reached over 1000 SPD at around the 21st floor.
You can put some skillpoints into attack once you get her though.
As for Meiling, put skillpoints in DEF/HP/MND and every once in a while into ATK/MAG (ATK preffered) to boost healing.
Once Meiling becomes more tankier than Remi, switch them.
And once Chen is a good and fast attacker who outspeeds everything, put her in the front line.
Also go vs Cirno now if you feel confident.
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Last time I played, Cirno was "That One Boss"(held me at 2F for a good month's worth of grinding), Youmu and Alice were moreso when I fought them, but still.
I'd rather hold off on her until I'm around Lv13 or something.
So basically, just pump Chen's speed huh? it'll take some grinding, but I think I can do it.
So basically, once Meiling's defensive-based stats outdo Remi, swap 'em?
Even though Remi's my primary spot attacker for those rare few foes I need dead now?
Since her gungnirs do 700+, they kill most of what they come across in one go, short of the Belorof series of monsters. Which are resistant to all I have short of Marisa's Mystic-element attacks.
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Drop Reimu or someone else.
Amd once Chen is good enough, switch her with another attacker.
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Hmm...Well, Reimu's Buffs/Heals are a big part of why I'm keeping her around, and Marisa's DPS is invaluable. while Remi fills both tank and DPS roles nicely. Which leaves Sakuya without much to do other than use an occasional Soul Sculpture, Misdirection, or K. Doll.
So I got an idea. Meiling-Remi-Reimu-Marisa.
Maybe once Chen's good enough, I'll swap her with Remi, and go back to two tanky healers.
And the bonus? with Meiling on hand, I can use Remi's self-buff with less risk, since I just need to drop a healer on her, and poof. No status effects.
They were practically meant to be used in tandem. Besides, Remi does what Sakuya can right now, and better.
Oh, by the way.
Which floors are Wriggle's bugs on? I get the feeling that Wriggle might be what I'm missing for the 7F boss. Uhh...Tam's Foe right? That guy's a royal pain, so I want to try using Wriggle's toxins.
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She has bugs on 1F-4F.
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Huh, that's funny, I got 4 of them, but the fifth is completely MIA.
Hell, I've mapped all of the floors up to 7, which is incomplete due to lolteleporters.
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Oh, by the way.
Which floors are Wriggle's bugs on? I get the feeling that Wriggle might be what I'm missing for the 7F boss. Uhh...Tam's Foe right? That guy's a royal pain, so I want to try using Wriggle's toxins.
Wriggle's bugs are on floors 1-4, one for each floor. Basically you can get Wriggle before even fighting Alice. Yup, you've been missing her for quite a while now. Touhou Wiki is your friend, it's not spoiling you more than we are. :D
If you're loosing to Tam's Foe, you're either still very underleveled or you're not handling his Flowing Hellfire right (he's not hard, really). Try to have 4 durable characters equipped with Bomb Rings and have them eat the very first attack. Another Flowing Hellfire comes after 4 more turns, so have these characters healed and switched in for that.
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...I don't get it, I got each bug then, so why's she not joining up?
As for Tam's Foe, you might be right. I don't have many Bomb rings though, and the only one I do have is on Youmu for some invariable reason.
So his pattern goes Hellfire-?-?-?-?-Hellfire? Repeating of course.
EDIT: See, I've totally mapped out 1-4F, so why isn't Wriggle Joining?
And I'm pretty damn sure i got at least 3, maybe 4.
If it helps, I'm playing the 3.01 Special Disk.
Oh-ho-ho-ho, now I see it! I see what I was missing! I didn't explore that one little area on floor 1!
And there it was.
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Boss rush completed!
Yay.
Now I just have to get a Divine Spirit Barrirer for my third star.
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As for Tam's Foe, you might be right. I don't have many Bomb rings though, and the only one I do have is on Youmu for some invariable reason.
So his pattern goes Hellfire-?-?-?-?-Hellfire? Repeating of course.
I think it was Hellfire-?-?-?-Hellfire, repeating
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Welp, I got Wriggle, and thought I'd try my luck at going after Yuugi.
I got her into KOi3S territory, wherein she absolutely walked all over me.
Thanks to Wriggle's Poisoning ability, I think I might be able to get her when I get a few more levels under my belt.
...Even though it's already 30-32, I should be at the right levels to be getting her, and beat Tam's Foe....Right? Or do I need more levels?
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...Even though it's already 30-32, I should be at the right levels to be getting her, and beat Tam's Foe....Right? Or do I need more levels?
I don't know by heart right now, but once again, the Touhou Wiki has (semi-)accurate level recommendations for just about any boss. When in doubt, level up.
Also:
Oh-ho-ho-ho, now I see it! I see what I was missing! I didn't explore that one little area on floor 1!
And there it was.
I think everyone had funny situations like these before. I remember having trouble picking up Suika on my first playthrough because there was a gourd-piece on 6F, but you actually had to enter the floor from a very certain spot in 5F! That was such a nuisance...
Just recently I was missing a Frozen Frog to summon Suwako. It was, of course, on a spot that I hadn't uncovered yet. It must look really funny to see me eyes-pressed-on-monitor, looking for those very slight difference on the map.
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I hadn't explored that area at all since I got this game sometime last year...or the year before.
I can't remember when I got this laptop anymore.
Just how many Frozen Frogs are out there anyhow? if there's only like, 3-5, then I might have all of them too.
8? Seriously? Hoo boy...good thing I have a strong compulsion to map each floor completely before moving on....usually.
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Be careful when picking up the last one, the battle will trigger automatically and Suwako can be a tough customer.
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Yeah, the wiki mentioned that.
As long as I hit her with the element she's weakest to, I oughta be able to do decent damage right?
Provided I can tank my way through her attacks that is.
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Hit her with the correct element AND attack stat. Flipflop defenses are gay.
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Welp, I got Wriggle, and thought I'd try my luck at going after Yuugi.
I got her into KOi3S territory, wherein she absolutely walked all over me.
Thanks to Wriggle's Poisoning ability, I think I might be able to get her when I get a few more levels under my belt.
...Even though it's already 30-32, I should be at the right levels to be getting her, and beat Tam's Foe....Right? Or do I need more levels?
If you always completely explore a floor before moving on to the next one and never escape from random battles there should be no need to grind at all until you hit the F16 boss. Tam's foe should be beatable with lvl 30. Try to equip Remilia and Meiling with fire-resistance (you should have picked up a few bomb rings on the lower floors) and keep their defenses buffed with great hakurei barrier and promise of the wheat god. Always switch the other 2 active party members out before a flowing hellfire and switch them back in after the boss made his move. As long as you can keep your flowing hellfire tanks alive the boss shouldn't be that hard.
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Keyword there being "Should have".
The only bomb ring I have is...the one Ifrit dropped I think? It might've been from a random Flame, I can't remember anymore.
The flames on floor 3 are insanely rare, and when I got into a fight where I would've probably gotten a bomb ring from them, I ended up getting the Bronze Sorceress's drop, Book of Knowledge, instead.
I'm seriously wondering if I should just get cheat engine to work so I can just get the damn bomb rings that way, since I've been farming for them since this time last night, and no bomb rings.
The only problem being is that those tables just aren't working right. i load up LoT, load my save, boot up CE, target LoT, and load the correct table, but nothing works after that.
I can see what the table's supposed to do, but it won't accept any commands to activate any of the cheats there.
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Meiling should be able to tank one or two hits with a bomb ring or two and a ton of SKP in fire affinity
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Without the bomb rings, just what level of Fire affinity should I aim for?
Since they simply aren't dropping for me.
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Without the bomb rings, just what level of Fire affinity should I aim for?
Since they simply aren't dropping for me.
Raising affinities via skillpoints is very expensive that early in the game. Aim for ~200 Fire affinity, 150 + bomb ring, that should be enough. The Flowing Hellfire will still take most of your tanks HP, but that's normal. Just heal them up again before the next one.
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Hm, its not that expensive when you consider how quickly floor 3 mooks go down, and they give around 90+ SKP each fight.
I could grind for more SKP on floor 7, but the enemies there are a bit strong, another reason why 7F is hell to me.
Too many Mystic-Aligned foes there to make much use of my primary attacker, Marisa.
her Earthlight Ray is my primary cleaner move, closely followed by Evil-Sealing Circle from Reimu, and DSoTM from Rumia.
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When I got there on my first playthrough my main attackers were Chen and Aya.
I think you should use them alot more.
Level up their SPD and ATK and they'll do fine ( except some enemies on 7F resist WND a bit).
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Hm, I have kinda been neglecting them a fair bit...
I guess I'll give them a go there, they should be able to cut the mustard I guess.
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Hey guys,
I got to 30F and was wondering about the drop rates. I can blaze through the floor fine, but SoC and Hibachi Twins v.2 still kicks my ass. I mean, I can definitely cheat, but those boss battles seems pretty fun, so might as well. Alice V.3 and Yuugi V.3
is still plenty of trouble, but manageable. Yukari's Spiriting Away
can clean up them quite fast, even with the Eientei Trio
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I think it is 10%, I have only played around 70 battles, and I got 2x Judas Pain, 1x Black Hole Ocarina, and 1x Ultimate ZUN Hat.
I am about Level 52X (Reimu) to 48X (Suwako), and I was wondering if I am just walking into the Habachis with the wrong lineup, or I am really not strong enough yet?
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I am about Level 528 (Reimu) to 403 (Pachy), and I was wondering if I am just walking into the Habachis with the wrong lineup, or I am really not strong enough yet?
That span of levels may in fact be a little low. Even with top-tier-lineup or a good strategy, I'd give it a good more 20 levels or so. That way no attack should wipe anyone out suddenly.
Remember to have characters in your group that target DEF and others that target MND (ignoring defenses at all is also nice). Also, don't have Hibachi #2 die first. It'll end in a disaster.
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Yeah, I've heard that #2 goes absolutely bonkers if #1 dies.
Anyhow, as for my exploits...
I was grinding on floor 7, and I got a couple more Blade Cuisinarts.
So there i was with two Blade Cuisinarts, sitting there on 7F.
And then it hit me. Give them to Chen.
Before I knew it, I was raking in the SKP.
After just a half an hours worth of grinding, I got around 25k SKP, all of which went towards Aya's ATK.
She now has 15xx ATK, that should be enough to mop up near any foe on that floor short of a boss shouldn't it? And she's not even got much equipment that'll boost ATK either.
Next order of business? Getting Chen that much ATK.
-
Chen is absolutely amazing in 10-12F, those Demon-Face Tops can die, die, and die. Oh, just wait till you get to Floor 30 and get to see Chen V.3, oh just wait; even Chen V.2 is nothing at the point you can face her.
I find it rather weird that the Version 3 of Eientei Trio
doesn't flip their shit with Hourai Barrage or Astronomical Bombing
like their Version 1 counterparts, when 1 of them dies. I had the privilege being at Level 6X, took out Kaguya
, and AT THE SAME TURN, Elrin
blows my ass into next year with that Mind Piercing bullshit.
Even at this level, Shikieiki v3
still kills me for some reason, I somehow cook up crazy damage and made her Focus on her Turn 2, but I lose the damage race and then I was chilling ten kings in the bar
. I really need to be smarter...
That span of levels may in fact be a little low. Even with top-tier-lineup or a good strategy, I'd give it a good more 20 levels or so. That way no attack should wipe anyone out suddenly.
Remember to have characters in your group that target DEF and others that target MND (ignoring defenses at all is also nice). Also, don't have Hibachi #2 die first. It'll end in a disaster.
Other than Patch, Kaguya
, Eiki
, is there ANYONE that can pierce #1?
Few more things on my plate: Does Kourin V.3
has the drop if you win while he is in a form? And what is with that anyways? I dish out about 10,000,000 damage to his initial form, then Form Shift, deal about another 5,000,000, then Form Destruction. I hit for another 1,500,000, then Form Destruction again, and the next attack, I win. O_o
By the way, is there ANYWAY to change Kourin
default portrait (not his battle one), with the special disk?
Lastly, I tried turning off the BGM, I went into Config.exe. Unchecked the top bar, which is the volume. Boot up, the game.... and I still hear it. Help?
-
Yeah, I've heard that #2 goes absolutely bonkers if #1 dies.
Anyhow, as for my exploits...
I was grinding on floor 7, and I got a couple more Blade Cuisinarts.
So there i was with two Blade Cuisinarts, sitting there on 7F.
And then it hit me. Give them to Chen.
Before I knew it, I was raking in the SKP.
After just a half an hours worth of grinding, I got around 25k SKP, all of which went towards Aya's ATK.
She now has 15xx ATK, that should be enough to mop up near any foe on that floor short of a boss shouldn't it? And she's not even got much equipment that'll boost ATK either.
Next order of business? Getting Chen that much ATK.
While both of them are decent(though I always end up dropping both of them at some point) don't waste too much Skillpoints in boosting Chen's and Aya's ATK if you don't intend to keep them in your team for a long time.1500 ATK on a speedster like Aya seems very good, almost 'too high' for Floor 7.
Have you tried using the Cheat Engine to get 1 or 2 additional bomb rings? If the Cheattable from the first post doesn't work for you try '00181B90' as address for the bomb rings. That adress works for me.
Chen is absolutely amazing in 10-12F, those Demon-Face Tops can die, die, and die.
Is it possible for Chen to be faster than Demon-faced tops by the time you reach 12F? That'd really surprise me, those things are so fast that they tend to act twice before slower characters get their turn. Otherwise, any semi-fast character can kill them before they get their second turn.
Other than Patch, Kaguya
, Eiki
, is there ANYONE that can pierce #1?
Isn't #1 the one who can only be harmed by magic attacks? In that case, any character that targets MND should be able to deal damage to it. If it's the other Hibachi - I doubt that Patchy can do any damage to it, Silent Selene still factors in 50% of enemy MND and the Hibachi should have 1.000.000.000 of it. Other than Kaguya
and Eiki
, there's Utsuho
- She has a defense ignoring attack as well.
Few more things on my plate: Does Kourin V.3
has the drop if you win while he is in a form? And what is with that anyways? I dish out about 10,000,000 damage to his initial form, then Form Shift, deal about another 5,000,000, then Form Destruction. I hit for another 1,500,000, then Form Destruction again, and the next attack, I win. O_o
I think the item still drops if you win while he is in a form, but I'm not 100% sure.
-
So then Aya's gonna be set for a while huh?
Guess all that's left is to boost her SP for Illusory Dominance spammage.
I never could get the tables to work right for some strange reason though.
If i could get the tables to work, I would use that to get more bomb rings to cover for the low drop rate.
...Maybe get a few more Blade Cuisinarts while I'm at it...Youmu would like 'em...
-
I never could get the tables to work right for some strange reason though.
If i could get the tables to work, I would use that to get more bomb rings to cover for the low drop rate.
They didn't work for me either, so I figured most adresses for my version out myself.
'00181B90' is the real address for bomb rings for me, while the cheattable says '00121BC8'. No idea why it's different.
-
Hibachi #1 can be hurt easily with any halfway-decent MND-targetting attack. Piercing attacks aren't really the issue. Even damage formulas that pierce (but not ignore DEF/MND entirely) will do no damage to the Hibachi with that particular defensive attribute. The V2 Hibachis have 1 billion DEF and MND respectively. You'd need, say, 100 million MAG on Patchouli to do more than 0 damage to Hibachi #2 with Silent Selene.
Hibachi V2 has so much HP that it's not really practical to rely on Kaguya for the entire fight. Best have your best magic attackers focus on #1, and physical attacks on #2. Use your DEF-ignoring attackers like Shikieiki to help balance out your damage output.
-
So what should I set the value to then? I've messed around with that to no avail.
I dunno if it's supposed to mess with the drop rate, or just plain put 'em in the inventory.
On a different note, I read in the wiki that the Lance of Geios can be found in a treasure box on 7F, but I've got no idea where the heck the box is.
I'm suspecting it's in one of the two southern nooks that I haven't found the warps to yet.
EDIT: Okay, now that was pretty what. I wander around 7F looking for a fight, and who should pop up but Nitori? Cue her getting burned to the ground with a double kimontonkou'd Chen , and Peerless Wind God/Illusory Dominance Spam.
-
So what should I set the value to then? I've messed around with that to no avail.
I dunno if it's supposed to mess with the drop rate, or just plain put 'em in the inventory.
EDIT: Okay, now that was pretty what. I wander around 7F looking for a fight, and who should pop up but Nitori? Cue her getting burned to the ground with a double kimontonkou'd Chen , and Peerless Wind God/Illusory Dominance Spam.
Unequip all your existing bombrings and set the value to 3 or 4 after that, it's supposed to be the number of bomb rings you have in your inventory and 3 or 4 should be enough for Tam's foe.
Nitori shows up in random encounters on 7F and 8F, that's normal. After you've beaten her on 7F find an event on the map with her. After that she'll appear in a random encounter on 8F again, slightly stronger. After you've found her map-event on 8F she'll then be a boss on 9F, if you defeat her there she'll join.
-
Well, I do that, and now CE's refusing to work how I want it.
I boot up both CE and LoT how I'm supposed to, load up the table, change Bomb RIng's address to the right one, and now it won't let me change the value like it did when I didn't know the right value.
EDIT: and now when it wants to let me change the value, changing the Value does absolutely nothing. I'm still stuck on precisely 3 bomb rings, unless someone I'm not using has one I don't remember.
-
Well, I do that, and now CE's refusing to work how I want it.
I boot up both CE and LoT how I'm supposed to, load up the table, change Bomb RIng's address to the right one, and now it won't let me change the value like it did when I didn't know the right value.
You don't have to load the table, just press 'add address manually', there should be a button for that.
Did you open LoT in CE?
Try the following: Open LoT, load your save, open CE, open LoT in CE, add the address '00181B90' and look at its value. Equip and unequip your bomb rings and look if the value in CE changes accordingly, if it doesn't then the adress isn't the right one.
3 Bomb rings should be enough. Bring Remi's or Meiling's fire affinity to ~150 via skillpoints and then equip the 3 bomb rings to them so that both of them have ~200 fire affinity, they should be able to survive the flowing hellfires then. Use Minoriko and Reimu to heal them up between flowing hellfires. It'll probably take a few tries, but it should be doable.
-
The best way is to still search for the addresses if they happen to be unique for your system.
Start a new search.
'New Search' however many bomb rings you have in your inventory.
Equip one.
'Next Search' however many you have now.
Keep repeating the steps that change your search value until you narrow it down to 1 address.
If you have the address of 1 item, you can find the address of all the other items. Just follow the address spacing pattern in the tables.
-
Dude, Meiling V.3 just dropped 2 Life Support System in a row.
Meanwhile, I fought the trio at least 10 times now, just give me a bloody Egg! (cries)
EDIT: Well, Habachi Twins took me an hour of agony since the first one kindly took out Kaguya 5 minutes in. I got lucky though, he didn't rinse cycle my ass during the 5 turns where I tried to find 10,000,000 Damage. Instead, he Djinn Stormed, which is easier to deal with.
By comparison, SoC took 20 minutes of standard quick buffing, and unloading as soon I saw Scourge. Thank god no Destroy Magic.
Well, time to grind/cheat enough levels to face ***WINNER*** now, so I can start a play through with not-so-good Chars. Any suggestions? I know that Renko, and Nitori
, are crazy good, and I don't really want to use them. Though Nitori
is pretty much the central core of the team in late game...
btw, if anyone like to use the Yukari I use attached below, let me know.
-
Yes, I would love that Yukari portrait. I still haven't found one that I like yet, but this might be the one.
-
ask and ye shall receive. I vectored this one myself, wasn't hard.
Am I the only one who cleaned up the crappy pixels in Renko
portrait from the SWR pack?
Time to find better pictures of those two...
-
Well, CE wont work period, nothing I've tried works.
Looks like I gotta hunt down those other 3 bomb rings the old-fashioned way.
Good thing I have Aya and Chen to super-speed everything.
EDIT: And in other news, I finally found the Lance of Geios.
Just one problem, I can't find the warps to open the last two areas of floor 7.
I know they're somewhere, but hell if I know where.
-
Well, CE wont work period, nothing I've tried works.
Looks like I gotta hunt down those other 3 bomb rings the old-fashioned way.
Good thing I have Aya and Chen to super-speed everything.
How many bomb rings do you have right now? Have you tried beating the boss again without farming new rings? Basically, all you need is 2 characters that are able to survive a flowing hellfire.
EDIT: And in other news, I finally found the Lance of Geios.
Just one problem, I can't find the warps to open the last two areas of floor 7.
I know they're somewhere, but hell if I know where.
There's a map on the wiki:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou:_7F
-
Ah thanks, I needed something like that.
I have three right now, but I'd really rather have six, because I want to make sure the attack does as little as possible.
I could probably be ballsy and just use China's massive defenses to soak it up, then swap in Aya and Chen to Peerless Wind God/Flight of Idaten spam.
I mean, right now she's got around 2.2k HP, 831 DEF, and 545 MND, as well as around 250 Fire Affinity with 3 bomb rings equipped.
Should I pile on the MND to make her even better? On the off chance that Flowing Hellfire uses Mag instead of Atk.
Reason why I want 6 bomb rings is because I want three for my other chosen tank/attacker as well, likely Remilia.
-
I have three right now, but I'd really rather have six, because I want to make sure the attack does as little as possible.
I could probably be ballsy and just use China's massive defenses to soak it up, then swap in Aya and Chen to Peerless Wind God/Flight of Idaten spam.
I mean, right now she's got around 2.2k HP, 831 DEF, and 545 MND, as well as around 250 Fire Affinity with 3 bomb rings equipped.
Should I pile on the MND to make her even better? On the off chance that Flowing Hellfire uses Mag instead of Atk.
Reason why I want 6 bomb rings is because I want three for my other chosen tank/attacker as well, likely Remilia.
I recommend getting 1 more bomb ring and go in with 2 on Meiling and 2 on Remilia then. You won't need the bomb rings again after 7F, you'll find a 'love machine' (+128 fire affinity) on 8F and Nitori on 9F can drop another one. I think Flowing Hellfire uses MAG, but I don't know if it targets DEF or MND. However, both Remilia and Meiling have decent MND in addition to their good DEF, so it shouldn't be a problem.
-
2 Unwavering Will and Lion King's Soul on Meiling and she doesn't need the bomb rings. Patchy should also be able to tank FH if you've been going pure MND for her.
-
Well, I finally managed to beat Yuugi after a hard battle, but she didn't drop the Lion King Soul.
If I could get CE to actually work right, I'd just stick it in my inventory, since I beat her, and subsequently earned the right to have it, even though it didn't drop.
I really don't want to deal with having to grind for her drop, because she's just too much of a pain.
I mean really, 20k less HP than Tam's Foe? Not much, but that's still a lot to do, even with Wriggle's poison.
At any rate, getting another bomb ring would work, I have two Black Onyx I can use in the third equip slot.
Patchy however, isn't pure mind, but rather, Mind/Magic, offense slant. Though with a little grinding, I can fix that little problem by racking up the SKP with Yuugi.
Seriously, you guys tell me if this ain't a good build for 'er.
-
Patchy however, isn't pure mind, but rather, Mind/Magic, offense slant. Though with a little grinding, I can fix that little problem by racking up the SKP with Yuugi.
Seriously, you guys tell me if this ain't a good build for 'er.
Patchy pure MAG or Heavy MAG/MND is good, there are very few bosses where a pure MND patchy is helpful (she tends to make these bosses a LOT easier though, she can even solo some of them).
As for your Yuugi - When talking about builds we usually mean the level-up bonuses, not just the Skillpoints, unless I'm really mixing up things here. Skillpoint-levels get more expensive the higher they are, so you shouldn't focus on one or two stats so much. Raise her SPD, HP and maybe SP as well.
Pic related is Remilia in my latest Newgame+ runthrough, I've just entered 10F. Every level-up bonus went into her ATK, but the skillpoints go pretty much everywhere, since it's so much cheaper to raise something from 1 to 2 than to raise something from 29 to 30. Just don't raise stats that aren't important to that character (Remilia's MAG) and don't ever touch EVA. Of course you should still focus on the characters primary stat, just don't completely neglect the others.
Maybe you had so much problems with Tam's foe because you didn't raise your characters HP and defensive stats?
EDIT: But remember that skillpoint-levels are %-based, so it won't do much good to raise Patchy's terrible DEF, for example. At least not that early in the game.
-
Well, she got up to level 32, so I put about 12 into defense, and the rest in ATK.
-
Well, she got up to level 32, so I put about 12 into defense, and the rest in ATK.
That's ok, though I'd focus on pure ATK for yuugi, she's one of those characters you often switch in for a single KOi3S and switch her back out after that.
But the skillpoint levels are not ok in that picture, don't leave everything besides ATK and DEF at 1.
-
Well, what I'm following says that she should be High ATK, Mid Def. So that's what I'm sticking to.
As for the skillpoints, that was just the productions of a short trip to floor 7, I'll give her more levels once I've racked up more points.
As for HP/Defenses, I always made sure to get those to at least 10. In terms of SKP levels that is.
I think my problem with Tam's Foe was that I went in without a concrete plan.
I think I'll have Remi, Meiling, and Patchy tank the first hellfire, and bring Wriggle in to poison him, and then just take it from there with various nukes.
-
Link of recommended builds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521). I take the meaning of a build as where to put levelups and SKP investment. If the build says split, then levelups go into the minor stat and statbuy for the main. Pure MND Patchy takes 0 from Tam's Foe FH. This does NOT mean stick her in 1st or 2nd slot.
I've never had a tough time fighting Yuugi. All her attacks have huge delay and she's got no teamwipe skills. Just keep meatshields in front and the nukers in the back 2 slots will take her down easily. Meiling, Yuugi and Alice are the early bosses I always redo if I don't get the drop. They're not that hard if you're doing it right.
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hmmm, well, Winner is not really a problem, except for a few things.
I cheated, I am about Level 543 (Patchy) to 599 (Reimu), which is quite there.
First of all, for some reason, he LOVES to spam Flesh to Stone, and Resist All every other turn; which is not a problem, considering that my nukers have defense ignoring moves, and or non-elemental.
The real problem is that he also likes to use that Long Sword Scimitar or whatever it is called, it does HUGE roll damage (100,000+ up to the third slot), and some times, not even buffed up tank mages can take it, much less the likes of Kaguya and Patchouli.
He also likes to use that single target sword move which is much of the same thing except he always seem to aim for the middle and does around 180,000+ to my non-tanks.
Good grief, how much defense do you need to take those hits?
-
That's the build chart I was following.
Of course, I took build to mean how to sink both SKP and levelups.
Like, put more of both into a specific stat as dictated by the list.
Looking back, I probably shouldn't have been so lax with Reimu's HP. Something I can remedy with liberal application of SKP.
-
I think we should get Ghaleon to do his defensive recommendations because NEETori's is centered around attack.
-
Well I finally beat ***WINNER*** just once, let's see how long this upgrade will last, or the next level leap I will need.
Things I have noticed the first time around:
- Sanae is worthless, worthless, worthless. At this point of the game, her HP is so pitiful, she will just get one-shot if she is out against his roll slash, that Miracle Fruit is just not worth it. I have replaced her with Keine, whose buff is stronger, and has respectable bulk to write home about. If she only buffs MND too, then I would love her to death.
- Komachi is no slouch when it comes to being first slot, her Scythe that Choose the Dead can do about 10,000,000 damage to Winner after Keine's buff. That is if you upgrade her Attack a lot.
- Nitori is broken as shit. She has been in every single boss fight I can think of in the plus disk where all these mf'ers have ludicrously high defenses and whatnot. Dealing 3,000,000 buffed per shot is amazingly good, and the reason that I win against Winner.
So now I have compiled a list of girls to use next run, after seeing Parallaxal's run, I thought I will give it a shot, may be you guys can help me pick?
Considering...:
Keine, Minoriko, Maribel, Reisen, Utsuho, Eirin, Rumia
May bes:
Yuka, Remillia, Suika, Mokou, Kanako, Orin, Tenshi, Iku
I shall welcome suggestions.
-
I found Eirin utterly terrible, but that's just my two cents.
-
I can stand behind you picking Rumia, she's a lot more useful than she looks, just pump her MAG and she's useful as fuck.
Heals, Debuff Reversal, an attack that targets all foes and pierces magic defense, plus a hard-hitting ST(Single Target) nuke.
What's not to like?
-
Hey Hanzo do you still want Bomb Rings?
-
Oh, yeah, bomb rings are always nice.
I'll still need em for Tam's Foe anyhow.
-
Try this then.
-
Pure MND Patchy takes 0 from Tam's Foe FH.
That brings me to another question: Can MND Patchouli solo Kedamagrammaton? Rankain doesn't pierce MND iirc and my heavy-MAG Patchouli was taking 0's from most of Kedamagrammatons attacks on my last playthrough.
-
Ah, thanks man.
I'll report back with the results here in a bit. Even though CE's still fiddly business, this might just work!
Edit: How do you open something from within CE anyhow? I've tried everything, and the tutorials aren't much effing help.
And when I go to boot up LoT after targeting it, it just says that it's in use by another program.
Edit 2: Huh, says here my system doesn't support DVBM. Weird, my computer was brand spanking new all of..a year or two ago?
-
Edit: How do you open something from within CE anyhow? I've tried everything, and the tutorials aren't much effing help.
And when I go to boot up LoT after targeting it, it just says that it's in use by another program.
Edit 2: Huh, says here my system doesn't support DVBM. Weird, my computer was brand spanking new all of..a year or two ago?
I'm not sure what you mean by 'opening somthing from within CE'.
Start LoT first, load your save, then start CE, click the little computer-symbol in CE and open LoT there, than click the little folder-symbol and load the .CT.
That doesn't work for you?
-
Been trying that, with no luck.
EDIT: Is there something special i have to do in order to get this thing to actually DO something? Like unequipping all bomb rings, and then activating it?
-
Been trying that, with no luck.
EDIT: Is there something special i have to do in order to get this thing to actually [i[DO[/i] something? Like unequipping all bomb rings, and then activating it?
Try starting CE in administrator mode. Maybe your win7 doesn't allow CE to change values in other programs.
-
I set it to admin mode the moment I got it.
-
So it won't let you open LoT in CE anymore? And it worked before? Or it won't load the cheattable?
If it's just the cheattable - have you considered just cheating the boss dead? That sounds a bit lame, but I guess it's better than farming bomb rings for hours. Tam's Foe has 80000HP. If you start the battle with your 3 bomb rings on Meiling, she'll easily survive the first Flowing Hellfire and can switch a few other characters in. Search for 80000 in CE before doing any damage to the boss. You will get at least 2 addresses (Boss max-HP and current HP), probably more, but not too many. Now deal a few thousand points of damage to it and look at the addresses again. One of them should be a few thousand points lower now, that's the boss's current HP. Set the value to 1 and just attack it once more to kill it.
-
I can open LoT before CE, just not LoT after CE.
And when I try to actually apply the tables, it does absolutely nothing.
No changes. Nada.
-
If you are able to open the cheattable do you get question marks?
Because you can find the address by entering the number of bomb rings you DON'T have equips for.
Just keep switching and entering till you get the right address.
It also helps to know that all the item addresses are 4 numbers apart ( for me the sequence was xxxxxx10, xxxxxx14, xxxxxx18, xxxxxx1C, xxxxxx20 etc).
And sadly you can't get anything you don't have (which means I have to physically get a Divine Spirit Barrier:( ).
Post pic of what happens when you try and open a cheattable.
-
No question marks anymore, that was when I first started messing around.
http://i.imgur.com/A5Nnc.jpg
I assume this image will suffice?
-
And sadly you can't get anything you don't have (which means I have to physically get a Divine Spirit Barrier:( ).
You can, it just keeps the items name as ? until you equip and unequip it once. And by unequip I mean 'equip an item from another page in that slot'. If you return to the page where the item is after that it should be there. I got my only scourge on my first playthrough through the CE.
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No question marks anymore, that was when I first started messing around.
http://i.imgur.com/A5Nnc.jpg
I assume this image will suffice?
It looks like the adresses are different on your system, meaning the entire cheattable is useless for you, I had the same problem.
EDIT: You probably know that, but in case you don't: If you equip a poison resistance and a para resistance ring to remilia now she'll have 34 Par ans Psn resistance, meaning she'll be immune to PAR and PSN (34*3%=102%), so she'll be able to use her self-buff without ever getting poisoned or paralyzed.
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That was the standard CT I got from here, I was using it as an example.
The one specifically for the Bomb Ring that was posted last page also did nothing.
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Well then do what I said about getting the address yourself.
That should work.
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That was the standard CT I got from here, I was using it as an example.
The one specifically for the Bomb Ring that was posted last page also did nothing.
Probably means that your addresses are unique for your system then.
Well then do what I said about getting the address yourself.
That should work.
It isn't that easy, he has only 3 bomb rings and a LOT of variables switch between 1-4 all the time. It should be possible though.
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You can, it just keeps the items name as ? until you equip and unequip it once. And by unequip I mean 'equip an item from another page in that slot'. If you return to the page where the item is after that it should be there. I got my only scourge on my first playthrough through the CE.
I tried that but it didn't work for me.
What do you mean by equip then unequip? As I can't even equip it in the first place.
EDIT: It works now.
I think the addresses changed for some reason.
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It isn't that easy, he has only 3 bomb rings and a LOT of variables switch between 1-4 all the time. It should be possible though.
It worked for my bomb ring address, and I only have 1 bomb ring, and it took 3-4 scans ( not new scans).
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I tried that but it didn't work for me.
What do you mean by equip then unequip? As I can't even equip it in the first place.
If you cheat yourself a Longsword 'Ringil', for example, it will still show the name as '?', but you know that it's the first item on page 10. You should be able to equip it then, even if it just shows ? as the name. If you go back to another page then and replace the Longsword with another item it 'returns to page 10'. If you go back to page 10 after that it should be there. It worked for me.
It worked for my bomb ring address, and I only have 1 bomb ring, and it took 3-4 scans ( not new scans).
Ok, easier than I thought, then.
I remember trying to find the address for some item I only had 1 or 2 of and still getting hundreds of addresses after several 'next scans'. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong.
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Maybe I'll just do it the old-fashioned way anyhow, I certainly need the SKP.
And I've got several hours to kill anyhow, and not enough patience to be fiddling with code for the rest of the day.
Yes, it took me all day yesterday. I've barely even slept, that's how frustratingly temperamental this CE thing is.
But this game won't beat me like others have, I'll beat it!
Edit: Hyahahahaha! I finally got that fourth bomb ring!
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After looking at #511 again, you seem to be building your Remilia pure-defensive. It isn't bad to do so, but you're also having Meiling in your team, don't you? If you don't intend to let Remilia stay in slot 1, then it's much better to build her as an attacker in my experience. With an ATK-built she still has enough defense to sit in slot 2 all the time and even with a pure defensive built she won't match Meiling in defensive stats. Meiling is just that good as a tank. Spear the Gungnir has a pretty bad damage formula and the only reason why it keeps doing respectable damage is Remilia's very high ATK. As a tank her damage falls behind very early and the only thing for her to do will be switching nukers in and out. The problem with that is Remilia being one of the fastest characters and you usually want your switcher to be a bit slower than the switched character.
TL;DR - In my experience Remilia is better off as an attacker in slot 2 if you're also using Meiling. It certainly won't ruin your game if you keep it as it is, but I think she'd be more effective that way and it's not too late to change if you're on 7F. You really don't need more than 1 pure tank for the majority of the game.
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She was my tank through to floor 7 y'know, she felt more reliable than the gatekeeper.
Of course, that's not to say that her damage output isn't respectable too, she's just been overshadowed by Marisa and Rumia, and as of late, Yuugi.
Currently she's DEF/MND/HP->ATK, mostly defensive, but still able to dish out the pain if need be.
Since I'm already grinding points to bring Patchy's fire resist up to par with Remi and China, since I'm going in with 3 tanks(one of them being a tankmage), due to patchy's exorbitant MND levels.
I mean really, 1409 oughta be more than enough to tank an FH amazingly right? And I can drop in a few Silent Selenes with her respectable Magic stat of 1156.
Sure, Marisa's got more, but Patchy's got MND Pierce with SS, so it balances.
Here's the team I'm going in with, any thoughts? Like getting more SKP into certain stats?
And yes, this is with equips.
Warning!
A Huge Boss "Massive Imagedump"
Is Approaching Fast!
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She was my tank through to floor 7 y'know, she felt more reliable than the gatekeeper.
Of course, that's not to say that her damage output isn't respectable too, she's just been overshadowed by Marisa and Rumia, and as of late, Yuugi.
Currently she's DEF/MND/HP->ATK, mostly defensive, but still able to dish out the pain if need be.
I think most people agree that Meiling is pretty much the best tank in the game. Tank-Remi is good too, but other than Meiling, Remi can be built as an attacker and her damage will really fall behind on the later floors if you don't do that. Though a defensive Remilia has upsides as well, be sure to bring her PAR and PSN resistance to 34 as soon as you can. It really helps her if she's able to buff herself without needing Meiling to remove the ailments after that.
Here's the team I'm going in with, any thoughts? Like getting more SKP into certain stats?
And yes, this is with equips.
You sure seem love Aya a lot. I'd say balance your characters out a bit more. Aya has ATK on 38, while Youmu is still on 4 and Minoriko has everything on 1. If Aya gets taken out by an unlucky attack from a boss it can cripple your offense if you focus so much on her.
For comparison: Here's my team, currently on 10F, about the same level as your team. I try to keep the characters balanced. I'm not saying that everything I did there is perfect, but I've beaten the game a few times already, so at least I can say that it works this way. It's a newgame+ so the images may contain spoilers for you, view at own risk.
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Well, it's still mostly subject to change, I mostly powered Aya to that level of ATK so I could grind easier on 7F.
I've not needed to use Minoriko much outside of the Yuugi fight due to Reimu covering both bases far better.
Group Heals, and Group Buffs.
But you can never be too careful.
I'm considering swapping her for Iku though, who is far more developed, and has overall better survivability.
I do intend to grind more to bring her MND or Fire Affinity up to par to make life a whole lot easier.
What's the generally suggested MND stat to null FH without fire gear?
See, I'm thinking that I can go Meiling->Remi->Iku->Patchy, and switch them as needed.
Would that team work out for a no-switch fight? Because short of Yuugi, I've managed to get through without much swapping of characters in mid-fight short of bringing Youmu in and out to sweep some garbage, so this shouldn't be too different. Had some troubles early on, but there's nothing that the RPG Gamer's Solution can't fix in a main story.
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See, I'm thinking that I can go Meiling->Remi->Iku->Patchy, and switch them as needed.
Would that team work out for a no-switch fight? Because short of Yuugi, I've managed to get through without much swapping of characters in mid-fight short of bringing Youmu in and out to sweep some garbage, so this shouldn't be too different. Had some troubles early on, but there's nothing that the RPG Gamer's Solution can't fix in a main story.
I don't think it's possible to beat the game without switching characters in bossfights. You must learn to think of all 12 characters as your active team, not just the 4 in front. Tam's Foe is probably one of the first bosses where you have to switch, it just keeps getting more and more important after that. If you want to beat the boss in a 'no-switch' fight, you need a healer in your frontrow. Reimu or Minoriko, Meiling alone won't be able to outheal the flowing hellfire.
I'm considering swapping her for Iku though, who is far more developed, and has overall better survivability.
Iku and Minoriko are very different characters. Minoriko is a healer and defensive buffer, while Iku is a offensive buffer. She can deal decent damage in the earlygame and midgame with her spells, but she falls behind in that category on the later floors and her role becomes debuffing enemies DEF with thunder drum shot and buffing you nukers ATK/MAG with thundercloud stickleback.
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I found Eirin utterly terrible, but that's just my two cents.
I never really used her, she is just not that good. I like to see if she can change with proper gear and stuff like that.
Rumia is obviously my primary cleric, I would need something to replace Ex-Border for multi-target heals.
I am thinking that Tenshi can be my primary wall, and now I need a second wall just in case I need a wasting swich, or that Tenshi can't do her job properly (which is very likely).
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I am thinking that Tenshi can be my primary wall, and now I need a second wall just in case I need a wasting swich, or that Tenshi can't do her job properly (which is very likely).
Tenshi is very strong on bosses without defense-ignoring attacks, but any boss with Rasetsu Fist or Thousand Hand Cannon can oneshot her due to her terrible HP. That makes her almost useless on most of the lategame bosses.
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Finally! I beat Tam's Foe!
Meiling, Remi, and Iku tanked his attacks like a pro.
Of course, Wriggle's Poison sure helped a lot.
And Reimu's group Heals/Buffs saved my ass.
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Finally! I beat Tam's Foe!
Meiling, Remi, and Iku tanked his attacks like a pro.
Of course, Wriggle's Poison sure helped a lot.
And Reimu's group Heals/Buffs saved my ass.
Grats, off to the next floors then! Be careful with events on 8F, if you picked up all frozen frogs on the lower floors picking up the third frog on 8F will lead to a boss battle with Suwako. Suwako and Nitori (on 9F) are optional and it's nothing to worry about if you can't beat them yet. Just go on and come back when you're a few levels higher.
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Well, according to my inventory, I'm still missing two, and I already got two on 8F, so I'm missing one somewhere on an earlier floor.
It's Nitori I want anyhow. DAT LINEAR GUN.
In 8F related news...Who's the pinhead who made that floor XBOX HUEG?!
Seriously, I've had to make 4-5 trips so far, and I've still not got the bloody thing fully mapped out.
The Pros? More Black Onyxes, and Bat Cloaks.
The Cons? HUGE MAP, Durable enemies, and who knows what all else.
Seriously, I've never found a foe short of a boss who Aya couldn't oneshot with Divine Grandson's Advent, and I've finally found one, Anguished Crier.
Those guys are like first-slot tanks, and I bet they drop the onyxes.
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8F and 17F are the only floors I never fully map out, I always just stay on 8F until I got all the treasures and had the Nitori random encounter.
The Anguished Criers are weak to fire, iirc, so patchouli, yuugi and alice should be able to oneshot them.
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Yeah, but it just bugs me to see it not all mapped out.
I always mapped the floors fully when I played Etrian Odyssey, no matter what.
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Criers drop pretty terrible items iirc. At least 7F has a 0.7% chance of Forbidden Tablets.
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Criers drop pretty terrible items iirc. At least 7F has a 0.7% chance of Forbidden Tablets.
The ones on 24F drop Portable Makoto Ito though, which are like easier-to-farm versions of ribbons.
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I like Portable Makoto Ito, it's certainly easier to drop those than Ribbons, although I have 3, from the chest, and the 2 very lucky drops while I was grinding in the 20th floor.
Hmm, so Tenshi is no so desirable then? Damn, I don't like to use Komachi again, she just way to useful. From the looks of things, nothing really can tank hits other than Eirin and Remi...
I look forward to Okuu using Uncontained Nuke, she seems so weak when I used her and she can't take hits either that the neg stats would seem meaningless.
Uuuuu... what am I do with those large damage (Nitori's Gun, and Last Judgment for example.) without gosp of HP?
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....Okay, who's the braniac who gave the lost souls instant-kill moves?
Forbidden Tablets grant DTH resist right?
Looks like I've not seen the last of 7F afterall..
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I believe Forbidden Tablets got 1% drop, not the wisest idea if you are trying to farm them.
tbh, I just use Ring of Hades, after exploring so much in the floors below, I winded up having enough to shield all 12 members.
Besides, you will need Death Resistance up the ass for Yuyuko
, so it is a good idea to stock up on those.
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Hanzo and Nerv, can I get links to the character image sets you're using?
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I believe those are just packages that are already available for DL in page 1... I could put mine up a bit later, I vector some of the ones that I don't like from scratch, but I still want to change Nitori and Kaguya since I am using the Pocket Wars Ava for them now.
I really just want to find an awesome picture with Nitori with a BFG (G for Gun), but none are catching my eye so far.
and I cannot find a really good pic of Maribel
that is worthy... (ones that are not done)
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I can probably provide mine, it's a mix-n-match of a few sets that a friend provided for me when I first started playing.
I'm just not sure if it's within the attachment limits, being 7.72-7.73 MB and all. I was probably pushing it with the massive imagedump earlier as it is.
So I'll just mediafire it instead, so here (http://www.mediafire.com/?q6tepw4na4mnodm).
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8F has plenty of DTH rings drops. I farm Forbidden Tablets for the offensive power rather than resists. Early game when your base stats are still better than SKP stats are the best times to keep stat gear.
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So just grind on 8F like normal huh, and avoid boss markers until you've got plenty huh?
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So just grind on 8F like normal huh, and avoid boss markers until you've got plenty huh?
You probably have at least 3 rings of hades and 1 forbidden tablet already, that should be enough for those ghosts. They don't have a lot of HP, 45.000 iirc.
Also, don't grind on 8F, continue with 9F, the enemies there aren't much stronger. There's no boss at the end of 8F and the boss at the end of 9F is very easy.
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I have 4 hades rings, and no tablets.
Alice was too difficult for me to even think about grinding for the drop.
She was one of the bosses that caused me so much grief, even more than Cirno and Youmu.
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I have 4 hades rings, and no tablets.
Alice was too difficult for me to even think about grinding for the drop.
She was one of the bosses that caused me so much grief, even more than Cirno and Youmu.
Then you missed a forbidden tablet as a treasure on 7F. It's probably worth going back to get that.
Image: The treasure in the red circle should be the forbidden tablet.
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That's odd, I got the Lance of Geios there, not a tablet.
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That's odd, I got the Lance of Geios there, not a tablet.
Then it should be the one on the other side. There's a forbidden tablet on one side and the lance of geios on the other, iirc. I thought the lance was on the left side and the tablet on the right, but maybe I'm wrong. Did you get both treasures there?
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Yeah, i made sure to.
Weird huh? maybe i should double-check to make certain.
EDIT: yep, it was the other side I had visited, not that one. It was there like you said.
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Maybe you picked it up without noticing. If you explored that part of 7F check your inventory page 8. The wiki says that there's a forbidden tablet there as well.
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I hadn't even visited that part of the floor, i thought for sure I had mapped it all before going to 8F.
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I'm on floor 30 right now, but not strong enough to grind there yet. Should I grind on 29F (for higher exp) or 27F (for higher SKP)?
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SKP gives a 3% boost to the base stat each level while level up bonuses give 2%.
So I would say 27F.
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Well, after noticing that I never gave patchy any skp for MND, I decided to make a trip to 8F for grinding/exploration/mapping purposes.
And who should I bump into? Nitori. Again. This means I've almost recruited her right? I just gotta win the 9F fight now huh?
But first things first, the lost souls. I'll get Suwako later on, when I can actually handle her.
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SKP gives a 3% boost to the base stat each level while level up bonuses give 2%.
So I would say 27F.
A level-up gives a decent boost to all stats even without the bonus, though. A level-up should always be better than a skill-up, but you can probably make enough SKP for quite a few skill-ups in the time it takes you to grind the EXP for a single level. Grind on 27F.
Well, after noticing that I never gave patchy any skp for MND, I decided to make a trip to 8F for grinding/exploration/mapping purposes.
And who should I bump into? Nitori. Again. This means I've almost recruited her right? I just gotta win the 9F fight now huh?
But first things first, the lost souls. I'll get Suwako later on, when I can actually handle her.
After you've beaten Nitori in that random encounter, you have to find her on the map. After that she'll wait at the beginning of 9F, in a corner not too far away from the 8F stairs. Don't underestimate her because of those easy random encounters with her, she's quite dangerous now.
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Of course, but I've got a good idea for a team going.
I just need to get Alice and Patchy's MAG up to where Yuugi's ATK is.
See, my plan is to have Meiling tank everything while Alice and Yuugi use their single-target FIR nukes, and Patchy spams Royal Flare.
Also, those lost/calamitous souls are jokes with 40+ DTH resist.
Sure, they've got good MND, but that's a moot point when you're slinging Silent Selene for 6k+, and Gungnir for 7k+.
See, I had this lineup. Meiling->Remilia->Aya(for sarutahiko's guidance)->Patchy
It worked out better than I had ever hoped. Now I just gotta off the other threeTwoone.
EDIT #...4?: All four have been beaten, now to find Komachi again.
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See, my plan is to have Meiling tank everything while Alice and Yuugi use their single-target FIR nukes, and Patchy spams Royal Flare.
Also, those lost/calamitous souls are jokes with 40+ DTH resist.
Just hope that Nitori doesn't use her multi-target attacks too often. Patchouli has terrible DEF and will most likely be oneshot by any multitarget attack Nitori can do. Also, don't underestimate the gun, I don't know if Meiling has enough SP to keep herself alive long enough, but if you're packing Yuugi, Alice and Patchy (all 3 can deal ridiculous damage to her) the fight will probably be over very soon. Give it a try.
Meiling probably needs the LOVE Machine equipped to survive the gunshot at all, it's FIR-elemental. You can also use Komachi(very high HP), but she lacks the self-healing.
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That's exactly what I did.
Lost patchy and a few others, but the damage was too great for her to last very long with Remi and Iku tag-teaming her with Wriggle's poison slowly chipping away.
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That's exactly what I did.
Lost patchy and a few others, but the damage was too great for her to last very long with Remi and Iku tag-teaming her with Wriggle's poison slowly chipping away.
If you beat Nitori, you should be able to beat Suwako, too. She's easier imo. The actual 9F boss is also a lot easier than Nitori.
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So she's got the same weaknesses essentially? I'll probably need at least 2k MND/DEF on all my battle characters, she hits insanely hard, harder than Nitori ever did really.
Though now that I have Nitori too, I should have much better damage output.
Oh, could someone explain how Battle Points work? Because I'm gunning to have enough battle points to recruit Flan the moment I'm able to.
(I'm also looking forward to her 11F dialogue.)
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Oh, could someone explain how Battle Points work? Because I'm gunning to have enough battle points to recruit Flan the moment I'm able to.
(I'm also looking forward to her 11F dialogue.)
If you start a battle, the 4 characters in the front row get 1 battle point each, if you end a battle it's the same. So, if you don't switch characters in random encounters, your 4 frontrow characters each get 2 BP per battle. If you use Remi, Patchy and Reimu or Marisa from the start you'll easily have enough battle points to fight and recruit Flan on 15F (that's where the BP check is, iirc), even if you don't use them all the time.
Also 10F-12F share a big puzzle that spans all three floors, I recommend using the wiki-walkthrough for those 3 floors. Otherwise it can take very long (you'll spend several hours on 10F-12F even when following the walkthrough) and you'll probably be overleveled when you arrive at 13F, eliminating all challenges there and on the next floors.
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And the wiki says that Meiling and Sakuya also count.
So how many battles are we looking at to get 150 BP for Rumia, 75? Because I think Yuyuko is also quite BP based as well.
Youmu's BP might be tricky though, due in part to her being a bit tricky to use as a leave-in.
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And the wiki says that Meiling and Sakuya also count.
So how many battles are we looking at to get 150 BP for Rumia, 75? Because I think Yuyuko is also quite BP based as well.
Youmu's BP might be tricky though, due in part to her being a bit tricky to use as a leave-in.
Yes, all SDM characters and Reimu and Marisa count, I just wasn't sure if you still use Sakuya and Meiling. If you use 3 or 4 of them until 15F you'll already have the required BP when you get there.
75 battles for 150 BP, yes. If you keep her in the frontrow all the time, that is.
Youmu has decent DEF, her focus restores 2times the normal SP and her multi-target attacks are good for clearing trash. What's so tricky about leaving her in?
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I'll give that a go, but instead I'll do this team.
Youmu->Aya->Rumia->Chen
Since it's good enough to flatten most all mobs there.
And I was using Meiling a lot, she was my key fighter in the Nitori battle, and I used Sakuya for quite a while too, back when Remi was my slot 1 tank/attacker.
And in other 9F related news...
What's Reisen weak to anyhow? I'm gunning for her drop, so I'm trying to kill just her, and then the three mooks she summons.
I'm considering leading off by poisoning her, then hitting her with all my high-power single target nukes. Like Megawatt Gun, KOi3S, Return Inanimate, Silent Selene, and etc.
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And in other 9F related news...
What's Reisen weak to anyhow? I'm gunning for her drop, so I'm trying to kill just her, and then the three mooks she summons.
I'm considering leading off by poisoning her, then hitting her with all my high-power single target nukes. Like Megawatt Gun, KOi3S, Return Inanimate, Silent Selene, and etc.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Bestiary#9F
No real weaknesses, 70 SPI affinity, but that doesn't matter since Reimu doesn't deal that much damage anyway. Her adds have 0 PAR resistance, so spam evil sealing circle to keep them from attacking while your damage dealers attack Reisen (Reisen isn't immune to PAR either). This will kill the 3 little rabbits after a few rounds, but that's no problem, you can get a maximum of 4 drops from a battle, so you can kill the first wave, Reisen just has to die before the first rabbit of the second wave.
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So everything but mystic huh?
And get plenty of Mystic resist myself, as well as status/debuff resist.
Wait, doesn't Demarcation turn Debuffs into Buffs? If that's the case, then I can turn her own strategy against her!
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So everything but mystic huh?
And get plenty of Mystic resist myself, as well as status/debuff resist.
Wait, doesn't Demarcation turn Debuffs into Buffs? If that's the case, then I can turn her own strategy against her!
No, Demarcation removes buffs, iirc. Mystia has a spell that turns debuffs into buffs. Mystic resistance and Statdrop resistance isn't that important, though I guess it helps. Reisen really doesn't deal a lot of damage and I don't remember her debuffs being that annoying.
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Hm, so maybe I should try to get Suwako, so I can spam paralysis on her along with Reimu.
See, I'd rather not kill Reisen's first wave of mooks before I take her down first, that way there's little worry of not getting her drop.
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Hm, so maybe I should try to get Suwako, so I can spam paralysis on her along with Reimu.
See, I'd rather not kill Reisen's first wave of mooks before I take her down first, that way there's little worry of not getting her drop.
Suwako's paralysis spell is single-target and does respectable damage, but is MYS-elemental, so it will be useless on Reisen and kill her mooks really fast. Try it with paralyzing the first wave, if you don't get the drop you can just try again with another tactic. But I can assure you, that it works with killing the first wave. You can get a maximum of 4 drops - 3*rabbit and 1*Reisen. Maybe you're even fast enough to kill her before Reimu kills the adds, depending on how much you've raised Reimu's MAG.
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And as it turned out, I didn't need suwako, just Reimu.
Though Komachi was definitely a major help with Avici and Death-Choosing Scythe.
Only downside was that she managed to silence Yuugi and Nitori, but they already got their shots in, so it was too little too late.
Now the only thing left is who to give Reisen's drop to. Who would best benefit from it, Meiling? Seeing as how she's my main tank.
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Now the only thing left is who to give Reisen's drop to. Who would best benefit from it, Meiling? Seeing as how she's my main tank.
As it's an item that increases all stats by a certain %, give it to someone who has many high stats. Meiling sounds good, she has high def and mnd, and increasing her atk will cause her healspells to heal for more. Maybe Remilia, since she has very high stats overall. Don't give it to a character like Patchy, who only has one or two high stats. Keep in mind that it only increases ATK, MAG, DEF, MND and SPD. HP and SP are unaffected. I usually give 'all stats +X%'-items to Rinnosuke
or Remilia.
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Yeah, I can see why that is.
So...how should I build Ran? See, the chart I have indicates either HP/MND/DEF hybrid, or pure MAG, or pure Defensive.
Which likely means exactly how I've been building Meiling, levels and SKP largely in DEF/MND, with a good ammount of HP.
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Yeah, I can see why that is.
So...how should I build Ran? See, the chart I have indicates either HP/MND/DEF hybrid, or pure MAG, or pure Defensive.
Which likely means exactly how I've been building Meiling, levels and SKP largely in DEF/MND, with a good ammount of HP.
I usually build her defensive, but I read she can deal decent damage with a MAG-built. Her real strength are her buffs, they cost a lot of SP though. With a DEF/MND built she can stay in the frontrow and use her buffs every turn until she is out of SP or all characters in the back are buffed.
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So then largely defensive, with a bit of attack/magic?
Also. I love 10F. It's got great battles, a badass floor BGM, and is more enjoyable than 8-9F. Especially 8F.
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I've started to generally hate 10, 11, and 12F in general because of bad experiences with the demon faced tops, The fail safe locks taking forever to find, and I still have to get all of the yuyuko events.
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The enemies aren't annoying, you just gotta bring Komachi.
Spam Avici all day, make the enemies slowed, paralyzed, poisoned, and sometimes outright dead.
Be sure to team her up with Patchy, Remi, and Meiling for big damage.
For example, my current order is Meiling->Remi->Komachi->Patchy.
First turn goes to Remi, have her focus. Second goes to Meiling, have her focus too. Third turn goes to Komachi, have her use Avici. Fourth turn goes to Patchy, have her use Royal Flare.
Enjoy that sweet sweet profit.
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Yeah, don't bother trying to outspeed to tops, it's hard at this point.
Did you did the grueling switch where you cannot return to the hub, and you have to go back and forth between 3 floors to get to the last switch? Cause if you can do that, by say putting Miracle Flame, Gutsy T-shirt on Chen/Aya, and make a run for it, you should be fine.
It's the boss you gotta worry about though. It is the first really difficult boss fight.
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I'm wondering how exactly I can get to Flan on 11F really, do I have to press the red switch to find the blue switch?
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I'm wondering how exactly I can get to Flan on 11F really, do I have to press the red switch to find the blue switch?
Do it after you completed the 10F-12F puzzle and can fight the Eientei-trio. You have to mess with a lot of switches to get to Flan. The explanation is on the wiki page for 12F.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Dungeons/12F
Flan won't join you there anyway, she'll run off to 12F and later 13F and 14F. In the end you can fight and recruit her on 15F.
Yes, you have to activate the red and the green switch to get to the blue switch, iirc.
It's the boss you gotta worry about though. It is the first really difficult boss fight.
I never found them that difficult, it's all about avoiding Hourai Barrage and Astronomical Entombing.
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The enemies aren't annoying, you just gotta bring Komachi.
Spam Avici all day, make the enemies slowed, paralyzed, poisoned, and sometimes outright dead.
Be sure to team her up with Patchy, Remi, and Meiling for big damage.
For example, my current order is Meiling->Remi->Komachi->Patchy.
First turn goes to Remi, have her focus. Second goes to Meiling, have her focus too. Third turn goes to Komachi, have her use Avici. Fourth turn goes to Patchy, have her use Royal Flare.
Enjoy that sweet sweet profit.
I don't usually have trouble with the enemies either. Marisa can usually one hit kill them with asteroid belt. I just hate the tops because they seem to always want to focus attacks on slot 3 or 4, both of which have the more fragile party members in them.
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I don't usually have trouble with the enemies either. Marisa can usually one hit kill them with asteroid belt. I just hate the tops because they seem to always want to focus attacks on slot 3 or 4, both of which have the more fragile party members in them.
The tops are annyoing, but I really hate the shadowcats v2.0, eye of twilight or something like that. They're fast enough to outspeed most characters and can use Stygian Ferry with 75% or so chance of DTH.
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I never found them that difficult, it's all about avoiding Hourai Barrage and Astronomical Entombing.
Yes, Elrin
went ahead and did it the turn RIGHT after Kaguya
bites it from Patchy's Royal Flare. I was like... oh come on.
Also, what the fuck is up with ***WINNER*** and his cheating... his Wand of Destruction (the one where the earth shakes) gave my Reimu 0 Damage, but did DTH. What the FUCK, my Reimu had 33 DTH resist. How much resist do you actually need to complete dodge that?
Also, Long Sword "Ringil" is the single most broken piece of shit formula ever to be used by an enemy. Low Delay, and massive damage up the ass. It takes 100,000+ to my Reimu with 120,000+ DEF in the Second slot; 150,000+ to Meiling with 160,000 in the first slot. And he loves, and I repeat, LOVES to use it twice in a row, so whenever he does that, I am fucked.
He has yet to use it during Time Stop though, but I bet he likes to do that as well, and you know what that means.
And you know what, this is only after I beat him TWICE, only twice, and it is a wall again.
The tops are annyoing, but I really hate the shadowcats v2.0, eye of twilight or something like that. They're fast enough to outspeed most characters and can use Stygian Ferry with 75% or so chance of DTH.
I just gave my front slot Ring of Hades, if you haven't noticed, they only aim at the first slot.
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...And I take back most of what I said about floor 10. It's still a nice floor, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Too many switches and mazes and stuff.
But I'll slog through it all if it means getting Flan on my team.
Besides, it's good training, Reimu's already up to level...48, and most everyone else are anywhere from 42 to 52.
it's really the Eyes of Twilight that bug me too, they love killing Meiling with Stygian Ferry. They never fail, even with a hades ring.
Amusingly enough, almost everyone else can take it without biting it.
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...And I take back most of what I said about floor 10. It's still a nice floor, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Too many switches and mazes and stuff.
But I'll slog through it all if it means getting Flan on my team.
Besides, it's good training, Reimu's already up to level...48, and most everyone else are anywhere from 42 to 52.
it's really the Eyes of Twilight that bug me too, they love killing Meiling with Stygian Ferry. They never fail, even with a hades ring.
Amusingly enough, almost everyone else can take it without biting it.
You'll need to around 30 (28 minimum) Death Resist to dodge that, I think
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...And I take back most of what I said about floor 10. It's still a nice floor, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Too many switches and mazes and stuff.
But I'll slog through it all if it means getting Flan on my team.
Besides, it's good training, Reimu's already up to level...48, and most everyone else are anywhere from 42 to 52.
That's good, 45-55 is the recommended level for the Eientei boss battle, looks like you won't have to grind for it then.
it's really the Eyes of Twilight that bug me too, they love killing Meiling with Stygian Ferry. They never fail, even with a hades ring.
Amusingly enough, almost everyone else can take it without biting it.
Remilia and Komachi both have very high baseline DTH resistance (as you'd expect from a vampire and a shinigami) and apparently stygian ferry always targets the slot furthest to the left.
Also, what the fuck is up with ***WINNER*** and his cheating... his Wand of Destruction (the one where the earth shakes) gave my Reimu 0 Damage, but did DTH. What the FUCK, my Reimu had 33 DTH resist. How much resist do you actually need to complete dodge that?
34 :V
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34 :V
Are you for real? >_>
Anyways, how strong is Renko's Galaxy Stop anyways? I was just trying it out since I know that cheater could be PAR'd, but damn, between that, and the SPD down 50%, he did NOT even move after the first PAR in Galaxy Stop. Oh, and the Deliberate hit Def -100% for maximum ownage with the Railgun and Starbow Break. :V
Does it also have something to do with me continuing spaming Galaxy Stop along with Kaguya?
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Grinding is always an option.
I want to go in with at least 55-65. So that way I know it won't be too hard.
Afterall, I'm not too keen on biting an Astronomical Entombing/Hourai Barrage.
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Grinding is always an option.
I want to go in with at least 55-65. So that way I know it won't be too hard.
Afterall, I'm not too keen on biting an Astronomical Entombing/Hourai Barrage.
Astronomical Entombing and Hourai Barrage can be avoided pretty easily, if you ask me. Though with level 55+ you will probably survive those attacks, so you won't even need to prevent Eirin and Kaguya from casting them. Still, equip one character with SPI-resistance to be sure(both attacks are SPI elemental). 55-65 is really high tho. It can spoil the fun on the next floors, you'll just walk over everything.
Are you for real? >_>
Yes, 34 resistance usually makes you immune to that ailment, the only exceptions I know of are Tenshi's selfbuff and WINNER's timestop.
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If you're going in that high, you might as well pick up Tenshi on the way. Shouldn't be too hard, I got her somewhere in the high 40s/low 50s. Just make sure to have Nature resists. Komachi is an acceptable substitute.
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If you're going in that high, you might as well pick up Tenshi on the way. Shouldn't be too hard, I got her somewhere in the high 40s/low 50s. Just make sure to have Nature resists. Komachi is an acceptable substitute.
I always try to kill Tenshi without getting a violent motherland at all. I go all out on damage and try to bring her below the next treshold before she casts it, making her focus two or three turns in a row before she goes down. It's game over if you fail to bring her below the next HP-treshold on time, tho.
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I didn't really try to blitz, but I did try to freeze her with Suwako's paralysis. As far as I can tell, if it hits, that's pretty much game because it gives you a crazy amount of time to unload on her. I got unlucky and didn't get it to hit. I think when I won I only took one Violent Motherland though, so I must have cranked out enough damage to skip one of the first two.
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Also, what the fuck is up with ***WINNER*** and his cheating... his Wand of Destruction (the one where the earth shakes) gave my Reimu 0 Damage, but did DTH. What the FUCK, my Reimu had 33 DTH resist. How much resist do you actually need to complete dodge that?
Wand of Destruction has an extremely high multiplier chance for instant death (like, several times as high as the boss version of Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, which was already 3x multiplier compared to most death spells). If you're not past the immunity threshold for instant death, then it will always have a significant chance of inflicting instant death.
It is my hypothesis that the formula for instant death is (100 - (3*DTH resistance)) * DTH Multiplier. Wand of Destruction just happens to have the highest DTH multiplier in the game, several times over.
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I'm on the 26th floor of the dungeon right now and kiiind of getting burnt out. I still love the game and want to start again with a new party.
My party for this play through was:
Remilia & Meiling (Tankin)
Patchy & Kaguya (Magic Damagin')
Youmu & Yuugi & Suwako (Physical Damagin')
Reimu & Minoriko & Sanae & Ran (Supportin)
Reisen (Debuffin')
Suika & Orin were second stringers for a few fights.
I'd like to re-use as few characters as possible, the only one really being Ran. Her buffs are just too op, and she offtanks so good.
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Use Iku! She's the only character who can potentially surpass Ran in both offensive buffs and offtanking (Iku's arguably the best MND tank in the game). Yes, I will keep singing the praises of Iku.
For new damage dealers, try out Shikieiki, Flandre, Kanako, Alice, Komachi, and Yuyuko. Or just use Nitori and blow everything up.
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Yes, I will keep singing the praises of Iku.
For a good reason. during the eintei fight (the furthest boss I've gotten to so far), most of the attacks directed at her did 0 damage. The only things that could actually hurt her were the doomsday attacks and galaxy in a pot
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Use Iku! She's the only character who can potentially surpass Ran in both offensive buffs and offtanking (Iku's arguably the best MND tank in the game). Yes, I will keep singing the praises of Iku.
For new damage dealers, try out Shikieiki, Flandre, Kanako, Alice, Komachi, and Yuyuko. Or just use Nitori and blow everything up.
imo, due to the whole GUN formula in the further patches, I think it is safe to say that Nitori is definitely very high tier. it is definitely not up to the alley of Yukari
, and Kaguya
with their crazy good support. But she is definitely the new damage dealer.
I also find Iku and Keine being very good offensive buffers in that regard, the former having the strongest buff for the price that you will be avoiding anyways, since you would need all ailments resistance anyways later on, and the latter for able to buff multiple targets that are stronger than Ran's, although Ran's buff is wider, which makers it better in a long run.
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imo, due to the whole GUN formula in the further patches, I think it is safe to say that Nitori is definitely very high tier. it is definitely not up to the alley of Yukari
, and Kaguya
with their crazy good support. But she is definitely the new damage dealer.
I also find Iku and Keine being very good offensive buffers in that regard, the former having the strongest buff for the price that you will be avoiding anyways, since you would need all ailments resistance anyways later on, and the latter for able to buff multiple targets that are stronger than Ran's, although Ran's buff is wider, which makers it better in a long run.
Ran also buffs both MAG and ATK, Keine doesn't.
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Ran also buffs both MAG and ATK, Keine doesn't.
Yes she does, Sword buffs attack while Orb buffs Magic, sure, she can't do both in a single go, but it makes it all the more specific. After all, some times you may have two physical damage dealers in and not actually need the MAG buff, or vice-versa.
Also, I think, I found a glitch in the 30th floor, I was using a hacked party of Youmu, Shikieiki and Kaguya just so that I could check the BGMs for all the three ultimate bosses, and I ended up killing all three easily (Well, duh, with a level 6500 party of nukers.) and... Now even after leaving and re-entering the labyrinth their icons are not there anymore.
Did I overkill them so much that they just died for the rest of the game? :V
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Yes she does, Sword buffs attack while Orb buffs Magic, sure, she can't do both in a single go, but it makes it all the more specific. After all, some times you may have two physical damage dealers in and not actually need the MAG buff, or vice-versa.
Also, I think, I found a glitch in the 30th floor, I was using a hacked party of Youmu, Shikieiki and Kaguya just so that I could check the BGMs for all the three ultimate bosses, and I ended up killing all three easily (Well, duh, with a level 6500 party of nukers.) and... Now even after leaving and re-entering the labyrinth their icons are not there anymore.
Did I overkill them so much that they just died for the rest of the game? :V
You need to defeat ***WINNER*** for them to respawn, I think. Unless I'm wrong.
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You need to defeat ***WINNER*** for them to respawn, I think. Unless I'm wrong.
Nope, did that, I guess the glitch was in the fact that I killed them in the order Winner - Hibachi Twins - SoC
They are still not there.
Here's the pic (http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd359/Sacchi_2008/wherearethebosses.jpg)
I've found out how to reproduce it, you just need to kill the bosses in the order Winner - Hibachi Twins - SoC, they won't respawn, or at least, not until you close the game.
EDIT: Confirmed, they won't respawn until you close the game.
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Yes she does, Sword buffs attack while Orb buffs Magic, sure, she can't do both in a single go, but it makes it all the more specific. After all, some times you may have two physical damage dealers in and not actually need the MAG buff, or vice-versa.
Also, I think, I found a glitch in the 30th floor, I was using a hacked party of Youmu, Shikieiki and Kaguya just so that I could check the BGMs for all the three ultimate bosses, and I ended up killing all three easily (Well, duh, with a level 6500 party of nukers.) and... Now even after leaving and re-entering the labyrinth their icons are not there anymore.
Did I overkill them so much that they just died for the rest of the game? :V
Also, it would seem to me that the only benefit I see from Ran is that it boosts you seperate magic and attackers alike, but imo, too slow, and only really good if you combo with Stone Bowl to a nice 30% from the get-go.
The only use is for Hybrid attackers, which are few and between, but imo, suck, since even the sterner stuff like eiki would bank on Last Judgment in the late over Bar of the Ten Kings.
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The only use is for Hybrid attackers, which are few and between, but imo, suck, since even the sterner stuff like eiki would bank on Last Judgment in the late over Bar of the Ten Kings.
Well, when you say Hybrid attackers, I'd assume something more in the composite attack category. But, since Reimu should be defensive, the best composite attacker is Ran herself, and the only other notable one that comes to mind is Orin, that's not really a problem.
IMO since Ran's buffs take soooo long to build up, and I tend to have Iku out almost 24/7 once I'm a good bit into the game, (And I've tried using Keine as a backup+Offtank, worked pretty great), a better use for her IMO (At least in my setups) is being an amazing attacker or a defensive buffer; keep dem DEF/MND buffs from wearing off by using it every turn, and people just switching in are already all walled up :] Also, if you aren't doing Winner by having Ran use her DEF/MND buff every single turn to keep your entire team constantly at 80~100% buffs, you're doing it wrong and just making it harder on yourself. Seriously. Also likely applies to Hibachi Twins. DEF-Based Ran is a wonderful tank too, by the way, better in all stats then my DEF-Based Yukari that I used wonderfully the entire game.
And yes, Ran has just about the best composite damage considering her formula ((350% of each wheras the next best from Reimu/Orin are 400%, but Ran has higher stat growths albiet a little slower leveling)), and THEEEN she ALSO has better survivability AND oh my god 70% delay that is just godly, only 70. Percent. Delay. That's Aya-tier right there, even if she isn't quite as fast as Aya (still fastish though).
oh goodness ranting is fun
anyway Keine is great as a back up for Iku, a version with higher speed to actually buff up attackers before they attack in randoms, and as a tanky gal, but she definitely doesn't -replace- Iku and isn't hugely needed, which is why I dropped her after awhile
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What eventful things happen in the plus disk?
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What eventful things happen in the plus disk?
to be honest, nothing
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What eventful things happen in the plus disk?
If you want, you can skip the entire plus disk and lose out on nothing aside from the ability to start a NG+. And even then you could just grab a save file from one of these LoT threads and start a NG+. So nothing of value is lost unless you like grinding and bossfihts and no story,
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If you want, you can skip the entire plus disk and lose out on nothing aside from the ability to start a NG+. And even then you could just grab a save file from one of these LoT threads and start a NG+. So nothing of value is lost unless you like grinding and bossfihts and no story,
I think at some point the game even openly admits that there's no reason for the party to roam around the strange space anymore. Only nonsense happens in Plus Disk.
To me, the game was still a lot of fun until 29F. Grinding for the ultimate bosses was extremely long and annoying to say the least. (Even though only my stubbornness got me through that, I still adore the game as a whole.)
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I'd like to dispute the ran is better off buffing defense than ATk thing. I feel this way because of the way buffs deteriorate, buffing attack by just 30% is actually VERY significant due to the subtractive nature of enemy defenses. Really, I use her to buff both ATk and def, staggering each buff. It should be noted though that I play slower and more defensive (sounds odd saying that whilst defending fans ATk buff usage despite a defensive option), so I have the extra time to set up I suppose. It's also much easier to put out a super squishy who absolutely cannot take a hit, do a nuke and switch out if they are prebuffed, as opposed to having to be out for a buff and a nuke (and where the said buffer cannot act as a switcher afterwards due rituals buff's delay)
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I'd like to dispute the ran is better off buffing defense than ATk thing. I feel this way because of the way buffs deteriorate, buffing attack by just 30% is actually VERY significant due to the subtractive nature of enemy defenses. Really, I use her to buff both ATk and def, staggering each buff. It should be noted though that I play slower and more defensive (sounds odd saying that whilst defending fans ATk buff usage despite a defensive option), so I have the extra time to set up I suppose. It's also much easier to put out a super squishy who absolutely cannot take a hit, do a nuke and switch out if they are prebuffed, as opposed to having to be out for a buff and a nuke (and where the said buffer cannot act as a switcher afterwards due rituals buff's delay)
Well, Ran is really the only real "safe" way to buff Flan, even her Starbow Break at Attack 30% up is a sight to behold.
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I guess I'll go along the plus disk at my own rate.
Pick a team for NG+
And any restrictions if wanted.
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No leaving the dungeon unless all members are out of TP or KO'd :V
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Sure why not? Now pick a team.
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How about:
-Marisa
-Minoriko
-Alice
-Rumia
-Yuugi
-Ran
-Suwako
-Yukari
-Suika
-Flandre
-Maribel
Up to you if you want a twelfth character.
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Any restirctions for the characters? Also 12th char has to be Meiling :V
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Any restirctions for the characters? Also 12th char has to be Meiling :V
Skill points and level bonuses can only be spent on EVA. :V
I'm kidding. No additional restrictions. Your blonde run (+Meiling?) should give you plenty of challenge.
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Lol, I was worried for a second. Plus I wouldn't count Minoriko as much of a Blonde but there aren't much more people so....
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Lol, I was worried for a second. Plus I wouldn't count Minoriko as much of a Blonde but there aren't much more people so....
Many fanarts depict her as blonde. But if you disagree, take her out. Good luck without a suitable healer, though :V
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I'm gonna keep her anyway. Also Pesco I'm not actually patient enough to do that so I guess I'm just going to use the team.
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Running out of TP to leave the dungeon is very easy to do.
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Well, Ran is really the only real "safe" way to buff Flan, even her Starbow Break at Attack 30% up is a sight to behold.
If you find the need to buff Flandre, you're probably doing something wrong.
Personally, the one thing I don't like about Ran's buffs is that it takes so many turns to "set up". Other buffers like Iku or Keine will have your attackers doing significantly more damage right from the beginning of the fight. If you set up optimal switching sequences, you can keep your attackers buffed for the duration of the fight as well.
Then again, I am also an impatient player. But I agree that Ran makes for an excellent attacker.
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That "blonde team" (+Meiling) actually isn't half bad. You don't have Reimu, but Yukari and Rumia combined make up for it, and otherwise it seems fairly nice.
Not having Iku or Keine means you'll probably want to use Ran as full-time offensive buffer, though. Especially so Rumia's Demarcation will have the required power. Maribel will be more useful then she normally is because she'll be the only one who can quickly get buffed ATK/MAG.
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If you find the need to buff Flandre, you're probably doing something wrong.
Personally, the one thing I don't like about Ran's buffs is that it takes so many turns to "set up". Other buffers like Iku or Keine will have your attackers doing significantly more damage right from the beginning of the fight. If you set up optimal switching sequences, you can keep your attackers buffed for the duration of the fight as well.
Then again, I am also an impatient player. But I agree that Ran makes for an excellent attacker.
I kinda mentioned it but went off tangent a bit regarding defense using subtractive formulas. But yeah, I meant to say that 30% buffs from ran (or whoever) are more significant than I think people give credit to. Because it doesn't really deteriorate so much as a major buff would. Plus with ran, you actually see 100%s around quite often in +disk content for your less used characters. I really think people subconsciously think that 60% or 70% is SOO much better than say 30%. But the fact is, it's no where near twice as good, especially when it's done to the whole party.
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If you find the need to buff Flandre, you're probably doing something wrong.
Personally, the one thing I don't like about Ran's buffs is that it takes so many turns to "set up". Other buffers like Iku or Keine will have your attackers doing significantly more damage right from the beginning of the fight. If you set up optimal switching sequences, you can keep your attackers buffed for the duration of the fight as well.
Then again, I am also an impatient player. But I agree that Ran makes for an excellent attacker.
It definitely made a difference to ***CHEATER***, that's for sure. Fuck his Flesh to Stone.
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Ran actually only buffs 20%.
70% IS really good in comparison to 20%; throw on one buff, and you're good to go. Thing about Ran is if you aren't casting it constantly, then it's not going to do a lot, and you CAN'T cast it constantly until later in plus disk due to sheer cost. Yes, she buffs the whole party, but for most of the game she'll go through all her SP soon and it takes awhile to get the numbers up; Iku can just throw one buff as soon as they're switched into the front and you're likely up to 100% again.
Ran's certainly still very good buff-wise though. And, her buff DOES do enough to keep buffs from deteriorating; once you CAN afford to spam her buffs constantly, having her keep the entire party at 80~100% DEF/MND buff forever makes a GIGANTIC difference.
jeez I like capitals :c
also it doesn't hurt that MAG-based ran spamming En No Ozuno on a boss is fucking amazing, and still fairly durable
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Isn't Ran's buff 20% to active members, 15% to inactive party? Iku's buff is 72%, btw.
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Yeah I wasn't claiming Ran can do 30% in one go. It was more of a "realistic" figure of buff%s she can effectively maintain on the entire party before post game kinda deal. Personally I think she can easily maintain more if you make her atk/mag only but whatever.
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I think I might pick this game up again. I got bored around 21 or 22F or something because I didn't feel like grinding past there, but I'm considering a solo character run or something for fun. Solo as in one character at a time with swaps allowed of course, since I don't think anyone's versatile enough to do a true solo without severe overleveling, and even this seems pretty ridiculous.... In any case, how do I New Game+? I never saw the option anywhere after clearing the main game.
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NG+ is unlocked after clearing the final bonus boss of the 30th floor. There's a save file with a NG+ character roster in the first post though, I believe.
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NG+ is unlocked after clearing the final bonus boss of the 30th floor. There's a save file with a NG+ character roster in the first post though, I believe.
Ah okay, that explains things then. [ur=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihJwoAyhT_Ql]Progress so far.[/url]
EDIT: And while I'm thinking of it, I assume I should modify my builds a little to have some of the beefier attackers go pure def or mind for survival purposes (since they'll still deal okayish damage and not die so fast). What's the pros' opinions on who should go with what builds for something like this?
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Hm, looks like I've been doing things right so far.
Still trapped in the maze bit. And I still don't have Tenshi.
I'm starting to consider streaming most of this just so folks can lend a hand.
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Hm, looks like I've been doing things right so far.
Still trapped in the maze bit. And I still don't have Tenshi.
I'm starting to consider streaming most of this just so folks can lend a hand.
Paral did a video-walkthrough of floors 10~12, if that's where you're at.
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pdxdem8PnE)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2KreOCa6QI)
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Bloody. Hell.
I was told Tenshi hit hard, but I never expected 'er to hit this hard.
I know using poison isn't a good way of facing her, but it's a side-effect of my primary debuffer, Komachi.
I got her to her second plateau, having forced her to skip the first one. But I didn't have enough SP to keep hitting her hard enough.
Remi needs more SP it seems, I'll have to do more grinding. Since if I can't beat her, then there's no way I'll stand a chance against the Eientei Trio.
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Bloody. Hell.
I was told Tenshi hit hard, but I never expected 'er to hit this hard.
I know using poison isn't a good way of facing her, but it's a side-effect of my primary debuffer, Komachi.
I got her to her second plateau, having forced her to skip the first one. But I didn't have enough SP to keep hitting her hard enough.
Remi needs more SP it seems, I'll have to do more grinding. Since if I can't beat her, then there's no way I'll stand a chance against the Eientei Trio.
Do you have a character that can tank the violent motherlands so that you don't have to make Tenshi skip her phases?
My strategy was just to debuff her widdle down her HP with lesser damaging magic attacks. When she got to the violent motherland phase, I switched out all of my characters save for Meiling (my main tank) and then switched in my heavy hitting damage dealers between them making sure to switch them back out before the next violent motherland.
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China might be able to, I just gotta get her to the right levels.
I assume it's Nature Affinity right? If that's the case, then I just need to pile that on.
Are these good enough? Or do I need more?
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That seems about right. If you have green dreams, than those are useful to equip.
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I have.....One.
Is there any way I can get more before Eientei Trio, short of cheat engine?
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Don't think so. Green Dreams are dropped by enemies on the 13th, 16th, and 19th floor, if memory serves.
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Well, this is gonna be a pain, it looks like I'll have to make do with one, and some...Straw Prayer Rings?
And maybe sink a good bit of SKP into NTR affinity too.
How much would you guys say would be good enough to neuter her nuke?
Both in DEF/MND, and Affinity.
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In my game I somehow managed to hit her hard enough that she kept using focus.
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Well, this is gonna be a pain, it looks like I'll have to make do with one, and some...Straw Prayer Rings?
And maybe sink a good bit of SKP into NTR affinity too.
How much would you guys say would be good enough to neuter her nuke?
Both in DEF/MND, and Affinity.
Tenshi's ATK is 1800, and the formula for Vile Motherland is (ATK * 4.5 - DEF * 1.5) / NTR affinity * 100, and damage variance in this game is 10% on both sides. Use it as a guideline
Also, keep in mind that Tenshi's debuff RES is crap. Alice's Return Inanimate while not particularly damaging against Tenshi, will prove to be invaluable due to the ATK debuff.
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Yeah, I noticed she's pretty weak to varying effects.
More than once did she get PAR, and PSN, and a whole slew of the other debuffs when I Avici-spammed her.
See, for a while she was moving slower than even China, who I've not put much speed into.
So....at least 2.8k or more DEF, and at least 400 or so NTR affinity should be enough right? Buffs notwithstanding though.
EDIT: Hahaha....AHAHAHA! Finally....I finally nailed down that pesky Celestial! AHAHAHA! Meiling tanked her nuke like a pro!
After just one buff from Reimu, Violent Motherland dealt only 98x damage to Meiling. Remi tanked it slightly worse, and Reimu and Alice went down completely.
But they did their job! Who knew that those Hirami Lemons would be so useful?
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Yeah, I noticed she's pretty weak to varying effects.
More than once did she get PAR, and PSN, and a whole slew of the other debuffs when I Avici-spammed her.
See, for a while she was moving slower than even China, who I've not put much speed into.
So....at least 2.8k or more DEF, and at least 400 or so NTR affinity should be enough right? Buffs notwithstanding though.
EDIT: Hahaha....AHAHAHA! Finally....I finally nailed down that pesky Celestial! AHAHAHA! Meiling tanked her nuke like a pro!
After just one buff from Reimu, Violent Motherland dealt only 98x damage to Meiling. Remi tanked it slightly worse, and Reimu and Alice went down completely.
But they did their job! Who knew that those Hirami Lemons would be so useful?
Well, the Hirami Lemons are supposed to control an evil god's power or something, right? Haha.
Anyway, congrats on nabbing Tenshi. She'd been a little bit of a pain for me, too.
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So far though, I'm quite impressed with her defensive abilities. with just 10k SKP, and up to LV 48 with 24 in DEF and 24 in MND, shes already got 2.1k in both defensive scores.
If it wasn't for her dismal HP, she'd get more use right off, by completely zeroing enemy attacks.
She's like the Yuugi for Defensive Stats.
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Tenshi's been my sole tanking character ever since I got her. Love those def/mnd stats~
Then again, I was too lazy to go any further than 21f, so she might not stay that effective forever.
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She needs a bit more SKP to be truly good though, I'll have to farm more once I reach 13F....if i can ever find Failsafe Lock #3.
Seriously, the barricade has slots #1, #2, and #4 listed as open, #3 is still listed as closed.
If I can find this last lock, I can get ready for the Eientei Trio, and use their floor as a new training ground.
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She needs a bit more SKP to be truly good though, I'll have to farm more once I reach 13F....if i can ever find Failsafe Lock #3.
Seriously, the barricade has slots #1, #2, and #4 listed as open, #3 is still listed as closed.
If I can find this last lock, I can get ready for the Eientei Trio, and use their floor as a new training ground.
Have you done the gauntlet of switches yet?
Also, doesn't everywhere in 12F have the same enemies or something? You don't get anything special by fighting right where eientei themselves are, do you? I don't remember anything like that, but I usually didn't stick around that segment of 12F to notice for sure...
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If I can find this last lock, I can get ready for the Eientei Trio, and use their floor as a new training ground.
If you have version 3.01 you can press M while in the labyrinth to up you encounter rate to 200% which pretty much makes sure that your next step will be a battle. That should speed up grinding by quite a bit.
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For all I know, I may have done it on accident.
Wait, the M key makes sure next step's a fight?! Did not know that.
I think we can all guess why, eh?
EDIT: Nope, apparently I've yet to do that one. Good thing I have that tutorial Para made. I just need to figure out the no encounters code...that'd make it a lot more bearable.
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YESSSS I JUST BEAT THIS GAME!!! Winner was hard, but fortunately he didn't use Time Stop so it wasn't too bad. Yukari and Ran were almost out of SP by the end, so it was a close fight.
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For all I know, I may have done it on accident.
Wait, the M key makes sure next step's a fight?! Did not know that.
I think we can all guess why, eh?
EDIT: Nope, apparently I've yet to do that one. Good thing I have that tutorial Para made. I just need to figure out the no encounters code...that'd make it a lot more bearable.
You probably shouldn't turn off the encounters, unless your level's really high. You'll probably want the experience.
Ignore the above if you're ~Reimu lv55 or higher.
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My intention is to only disable them long enough to make getting the last failsafe lock tolerable. once I have the lock, I'll go back to gensokyo and then re-enable encounters.
I can train later, when I don't have an annoying floor being an obstacle.
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My intention is to only disable them long enough to make getting the last failsafe lock tolerable. once I have the lock, I'll go back to gensokyo and then re-enable encounters.
I can train later, when I don't have an annoying floor being an obstacle.
Ah, I gotcha. Though if you have training to do, why not do it while you're going about flipping switchesa anyway? If you're not strong enough to do the run the way it's originally designed, you'll probably be curbstomped anyway, so it'd be a good test, if nothing else.
Not trying to force you to do something, btw, I'm just offering another thought on it. Figured may as well kill two fairies with one bullet, right?
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Well, that's one way of doing things, I just wanted one annoyance out of the way so I could focus on another.
And as it turns out, I didn't even need to disable the encounters, thanks to Parallax's tutorial vids.
Only one task now lies before me...Can I beat the IN endgame bosses all at once?
Surely they can't be much stronger than Tenshi was can they? And plus, unlike my woefully poor Green Dream situation, I have two zodiac stones, which should make for plenty of SPI resist.
...They DO use those right? I'm figuring that since Eirin has the higher threshold before focus, I should take her out first. Her being the Healer also affects that. Take out their healer before they take out mine.
I have since then switched out Minoriko for Sanae, who performs quite admirably on both fronts, healing AND attacking.
Current Levels as of right before the Eientei Trio...
Chen: 60
Cirno: 54
Sakuya: 51
Marisa: 51
Wriggle: 53
Youmu: 51
Minoriko: 53
Rumia: 54
Ran: 48
Tenshi: 49
Meiling: 54
Remilia: 48
Komachi: 49
Patchy: 48
Iku: 52
Aya: 52
Alice: 50
Sanae: 50
Suwako(kerokero): 47
Nitori: 52
Reimu: 55
Yuugi: 50
So, should I level up more? I would think that going in with everyone at 55+ would be a safe idea right?
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They cover lots of elements, actually. Eirin has cold, mystic, and physical, Kaguya has spirit and fire, and Reisen uses mystic and nature. True, the big attacks from Kaguya and Eirin are spirit, but they also ignore defenses so unless you've got out Komachi or a Meiling with both zodiac stones you aren't surviving anyway. Not that killing during focus is going to be hard; these three don't have the kinds of defense that Tenshi had. The tricky part is doing it in such a way that when one dies, the other doesn't get a chance to kill you into the ground by spamming their nuke.
Your levels do seem to be up to the task, though. Take a shot or two and see if you can do it before you go grindin'.
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True, the big attacks from Kaguya and Eirin are spirit, but they also ignore defenses so unless you've got out Komachi or a Meiling with both zodiac stones you aren't surviving anyway.
actually they don't ignore defenses, but they're still party-wipers unless you've like, got high DEF/MND buffs up and have their MAG stat fully debuffed (Which isn't likely as Kaggy uses Bhudda's Stone Bowl if they have a total of 3 debuffs among them. PAR doesn't count as a debuff and Reisen has 0 PAR resistance, by the way)
edit:Oops, they actually do. But debuffing their MAG still makes it survivable.
That's actually a viable strategy since they're really vulnerable to debuffs; knock out Kaggy quickly and then debuff their MAG and SPD. But honestly, I find it easiest to just spam multitargets on them (Royal Flare is great and even takes out Eirin/Kaggy at about the same time if you keep Patch alive that long)
Iku, Minoriko, Reimu, and Patch are noticably tanky in this fight due to their high MND stats, as Galaxy In A Pot I think is the only physical you've got to worry about. Meiling is still useful as always for tanking, though.
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So patchy's the most useful here huh? I'll give it a go, she's already got around...3085 MAG, and MND is around...3044.
Good enough? Her equips are...
Forbidden Tablet X2
Ball of Lightning
I'm thinking maybe give her the spare getitup v, and a few other items.
With an alternate setup meant for MND tanking, the setup is...
Floppy Rabbit-ear Headband
Cloak of The Bat
Getitup V
Mag Stat: 2802
MND Stat: 3663
I'm thinking about using that second one, and grinding some SKP to get her MAG back up to around 3k.
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I personally think Reimu's the most useful character in this fight. She has Evil Sealing Circle to paralyze Reisen, and using her Great Hakurei Barrier to buff up your magic tanks can make them nearly impossible to kill short of Galaxy in a Pot and the two oh shit attacks. Offensively, Royal Flare is definitely good. Hits Eirin right in the fire weakness. Knockout in Three Steps is even better at that, but good luck getting that off more than once without getting Yuugi killed.
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Yeah, I noticed that this goaround.
Nitori also hits her in the weakness with her Railgun, and can take about one or two hits without going down, thanks to opticamo.
Eirin went down first, and for a while patchy was soloing kaggy and reisen, up until Kaggy decided to be all "Fuck this noise." and bust out Hourai Barrage, hitting the lone patch-patch for around 4.8k.
...Maybe if I can funnel enough SKP into HP? Or maybe by going in with a metric fuckton of MND.
All's I know is that while I did get close, I'm gonna need a bit more training to cut the mustard.
I mean really, patch-patch was seeing 0 after 0 once Eirin fell, even with Reisen spamming Mind Starmine and Grand Elixir.
Even with Buffs, Reisen was doing 0. And I had several DEBUFFS, and still 0 damage was popping up. I think I should swap Komachi out this fight, maybe someone who can buff real fast...Like Ran!
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I've found that having at least two characters that can cause paralysis in the field helps quite a bit for that fight.
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Like Suwako and Reimu right?
Komachi's not that useful due to her widespread debuffing.
I should probably bring Reimu's MND closer to Patchy's level so I can be safer, that way I shouldn't have too much to fear.
I can just stock up on SKP, the enemies seem to drop those polymer liquid items quite often, and they sell quite nicely.
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Cirno can also be useful with diamond blizzard. Just keep in mind that anything that isn't mercury sea will most likely kill her.
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Like Suwako and Reimu right?
Komachi's not that useful due to her widespread debuffing.
I should probably bring Reimu's MND closer to Patchy's level so I can be safer, that way I shouldn't have too much to fear.
I can just stock up on SKP, the enemies seem to drop those polymer liquid items quite often, and they sell quite nicely.
If you've been using her, Cirno could also help with the PAR through...whatever her second spell was, as much like Reimu's ESC, hers is a multitarget spell, though her PAR effect is weaker than the Iron Ring from Suwako if it hits. Once you KO one of the trio, you can also use her SPD debuffing spells as well to give you more time to kill the others as well(Since if there's only two alive and Kaggy's one of em, you'd be safe from the Stone Bowl if there're only 2 targets, long as it's only one debuff class, such as SPD Down.)
fakeedit: *pulls a kunai out of his back* Freaking ninjas...
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I see.
Cirno was pretty much benched once I had more characters than I knew what to do with.
She's still been racking up levelups, and the occasional SKP pile chucked her way.
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I see.
Cirno was pretty much benched once I had more characters than I knew what to do with.
She's still been racking up levelups, and the occasional SKP pile chucked her way.
Yeah, with her low damage output and only one element, she's a bit of trouble to use, but that PAR effect alone is almost enough reason to keep her around if only for floor exploration. Her SPD debuffs are, I believe I read on Touhouwiki, the strongest you'll ever get except I think Renko(who doesn't appear til postgame, IIRC)'s Galaxy Stop(An insane -100% SPD in addition to the strongest PAR in the game, if memory of what I've read serves...)
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So essentially, reserve Cirno for when the fight's down to two foes, right?
Makes sense.
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So essentially, reserve Cirno for when the fight's down to two foes, right?
Makes sense.
Those SPD downs will help prevent you from eating a Hourai Barrage or Astronomical Entombing while you take out the other one. Remember to ignore Reisen- much like in fanon, here she's just a useless bunny compared to the other two. Eirin's probably the one to take out first, simply due to her higher HP and healing, as you figured. Her FIR weakness should simplify that though, as you also know.
I'd recommend trying to have a buffed nuker or two, like Marisa or Nitori(Her nuke's nonelemental in 3.01, but with an even more insane multiplier, so while she won't hit Eirin for weakness, she can still do some good damage overall.), waiting in the wings for when you have to take out Kaguya. As you can plainly see, if she casts the Barrage, that's the game right there.
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Didn't just see it, I took one headon.
But I would assume then that using Iku and having PAR resist on my nukers would work good right?
Or just use Sanae's Miracle Fruit.
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Highest stat list v2:
Up to 24F
Level:227 for Chen
HP:66635 for Komachi (Meiling is getting there with 58231 HP)
SP:1787 for Patchy
ATK:59918 for Flan
DEF:22785 for Meiling
MAG:33638 for Marisa
MND:30756 for Patchy
SPD:1682 for Chen (Slowest is Yuyu again with 304)
Plus disk is boring. Anyone have a save file at 30F?
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You don't need to save Cirno for just when there are 2 enemies left. Icicle Fall is her strongest SPD debuff, and it's only single target. I like using Icicle Fall on both Eirin and Kaguya, since they are the most dangerous enemies. There's no need to slow down Reisen if you can just keep her paralyzed with someone else.
Icicle Fall is a fine weapon to keep exactly 2 debuffs on the Eientei group, so you won't trigger Buddha's Stone Bowl.
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Yeah, but Kaguya likes spamming Fire Rat's Robe, and that one laser-y move. I'd rather not leave much to chance.
But I guess I'll give it a shot, see how things go. Cirno probably needs some more SKP in order to keep up with everyone else though.
EDIT: Gave it a second whack, this time with Reimu and Cirno replacing Remi and Komachi respectively.
Took out Eirin and Reisen at the same time, then Kaggy thought it'd be a laugh to use Hourai Barrage right after.
I wasn't laughing. And after a couple more levels and such, neither will she.
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EDIT: Gave it a second whack, this time with Reimu and Cirno replacing Remi and Komachi respectively.
Took out Eirin and Reisen at the same time, then Kaggy thought it'd be a laugh to use Hourai Barrage right after.
I wasn't laughing. And after a couple more levels and such, neither will she.
You're having trouble avoiding Kaguya's limit so...you take out the person who can tank it straight-up? I'm not really seeing the logic here. Yeah, Avici isn't good for this fight. But she can still deal good damage with Scythe, especially if she's Iku'd, and most importantly, she has the gobs and gobs of HP that it takes to swallow Astronomical Entombing or Hourai Barrage. If you're pulling her, you had better be set up to kill Eirin or Kaguya and then not give the other one a single turn!
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And with Reimu and Cirno handing out PAR and SPD debuffs like crazy, Meiling had time to sit around a pitch out heals when they got turns.
Eventually I had them so locked down that they had no chance to use focus....Outside of Reisen, but by the time she gets there she's inconsequential.
She consistently does nothing to patchy, and the endgame was heralded by patchy's thunderclouded royal flare taking out both Eirin AND Kaguya at the same time.
At that point, I could win at my own pace, since even with all the debuffs Reisen was slinging, they were completely ineffective at damaging patchy.
Only things tat caught me up were her status-effect moves, Gas-Woven Orb, and Silent Cloud.
The latter of the two being the most annoying. After the PAR from another thundercloud wore off, I used Silent Selene for game!
Only Limit Seen This Round: Mind Starmine, doing a laughable job of absolutely nothing. (It even failed at failing!)
What a useless little rabbit, but maybe she just wasn't applying her talents right~?
At any rate, Eirin and Reisen are now mine. Next stop? Flan.
...This is something I've been looking forward to all game! :firedup:
Also, funny story happened during that same brawl.
I had Ran in towards the end, but not until the fateful flare, and I inadvertently used Fox-Tanuki Youkai Laser.
Dealt a flat 10k to all of them. Cue me spamming that until Ran ran out of MP....Which wasn't too much further, given that I used her ATK/MAG buff earlier.
EDIT: C'mere you drunken little Oni, I'm gonna need yer help busting up an immortal....And a ghost....hell, Rampage time!
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IIRC anyone with 2640 MND or higher takes no damage from most of their spells.
Have you tried tanking with just Iku?
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The Eientei team?
Yeah, they're 86'd already.
My next task is beating Yuyuko, I had no clue that her Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana was a Physical Spell.
I'll need to train on 13-14 for a while in order to face her head on, and maybe some more Forbidden Tablets.
Also, lulzy story.
You guys know how Holy Win is one of the best MND items you can get in the 10-15 area?
Well, imagine asthmatic little Patchy swinging around that beast of a holy sword. I mean really, +60% MND, and +10% REC? How can I say no?
And on the Eientei Trio fight, I got the third Getitup V. found a Dairokutenmaoh Armor on Floor....14 as well, I think.
I guess right now my next goal is to grind my arse off until I can face down Yuyuko and Mokou, as well as Orin, since I don't want to go too much further until I've recruited everyone I can.
It's why I got Tenshi before fighting Eientei.
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It's probably better if you grind on higher floors if you want to recruit.
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Well, if I can barely scrape past those 14F golems, I don't think I'll be able to do much better later on, not without heavy training.
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Does Flame Tyrant on 24F use any status inflicting moves?
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According to the wiki, no.
It's just the X's Foe series beefed up to the Nth Degree, right down to the use of Flowing Hellfire.
It is however, cripplingly weak to PAR, having only 5 PAR resist.
If you wanna fight it without PAR, you better be at least 310+ with 500+ FIR Affinity, since the cheesed version's recommendation is 210+.
Guy's got 60k MAG apparently. It also takes 2.5x damage from Cold element, so Cirno's quite useful, as are Patchy(Undine), Suwako(Froggy), Nitori(Waterfall), and anyone else with Cold attacks.
Quote from the Wiki's entry.
Flame Tyrant
HP Level Recommendation EXP Skill Points Drop
6,000,000 210+ 626,800 198,000 Black Hole Ocarina
The only thing that you need to know about how to beat Flame Tyrant is that it has a PAR resist of 5. It also has 60000 MAG, and can probably kill some of your members ten times over with a single Flowing Hellfire, so you'll want to abuse that ridiculously low PAR resistance. Make sure your front four members have very, very high FIR affinity, survive its opening attack (usually Flowing Hellfire), inflict PAR on it somehow, and reapply it once in a while as you beat it to death without fearing any form of counterattack whatsoever. It's highly resistant to FIR as expected, what you may not expect is that it's also resistant to MYS and SPI, so go use other elements instead (preferably CLD, which does 2.5x damage to it). That pretty much sums it up.
If you want to fight the battle without PAR for some reason, know that since it's nearly immune to debuffs and no amount of defensive buff is going to be of any use against 60000 MAG (unless your party members are about 100 levels higher than needed), the only thing you can do about its attacks is FIR affinity, and lots and lots of it. The only thing Flame Tyrant does is fire attacks, and more fire attack, but they're also coming from the aforementioned 60000 MAG, so you'll need 400-500 FIR affinity on everyone who wants to stay in on one of its attacks. You will still be taking heck of a lot of damage though, so you'll probably need a couple of dedicated switchers to make sure Reimu can come in, heal, and leave as needed.
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I read the wiki, I just wanted to double check as my Patchy's MND is half of his MAG so I thought with more FIR affinity and no status inflicting moves then she shouldn't take much damage.
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Well, one would hope.
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Well, good luck with that. I've tried to fight the Flame Tyrant at "normal" levels without PAR, and it was pretty much the hardest Plus Disk fight until the 30F. Even Iku with 400-ish FIR affinity was taking 15k+ damage from Flowing Hellfire.
Assuming your Patchouli has around 30k MND and with the damage formula for Flowing Hellfire, you can expect her to take about 52k damage at neutral affinity, and 10k damage with 520 FIR affinity. You're going to need to keep her MND fully buffed if you want her to survive this fight.
Also, note that Flame Tyrant doesn't have a set attack pattern at all. He can use Flowing Hellfire multiple times in succession (I know he's done it to me).
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Ok, Thanks.
I could try and level up her MND a bit more too. She doesn't even have 100 skill levels in it yet.
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Well, Hell Forge isn't so bad.
I should probably train a fair bit more so I can keep trying for his drop.
Hey, the second dual halo might come in handy on...uh...someone.
It's Yuyuko and Triomagen that I'm not too thrilled with having to brawl with, especially considering that they too have drops I desire.
Things I already possess, but having more than one of them is never a bad thing, especially Triomagen's drop, which will be a useful replacement for the Galadriel's Phial I have on Remi right now.
Having a second Twilight Robe will also come in handy I'd wager. Can never have enough MND.
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It's Yuyuko and Triomagen that I'm not too thrilled with having to brawl with, especially considering that they too have drops I desire.
Things I already possess, but having more than one of them is never a bad thing, especially Triomagen's drop, which will be a useful replacement for the Galadriel's Phial I have on Remi right now.
Having a second Twilight Robe will also come in handy I'd wager. Can never have enough MND.
You should definitely fight Triomagen until you get the drop. Star of Ellendil stays useful for a very, very long time.
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Aye.
20% increase to all stats, plus a Resistances Boost, and doesn't it affect REC/TP too?
I don't have my game open right now, so i can't be sure what all it does beyond the stats and resist boosts.
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I just went for Flame Tyrant using the PAR method.
He attacked once, three people died ( or two).
Then he was PAR the rest of the fight.
And I lost.
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Aye.
20% increase to all stats, plus a Resistances Boost, and doesn't it affect REC/TP too?
I don't have my game open right now, so i can't be sure what all it does beyond the stats and resist boosts.
It's +4 TP, but that's just a side-effect. Items that solely increase stats are nice, though a few level-ups can do the same thing. But if you can't get your party immune to status-effects, you're just going to have trouble even with a high-level-party.
I just went for Flame Tyrant using the PAR method.
He attacked once, three people died ( or two).
Then he was PAR the rest of the fight.
And I lost.
That's how it usually goes...though I don't know what to make of that strike.
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Well, China hardly ever gets zinged with effects(mostly due to elendil or phial),
And Remi's got the Ribbon, and a Phial, swapping the Phial for that second Elendil would be useful. 4% more statboost than the phial, and better resists.
I don't really care too much about status effects that aren't inflicted by my party, mostly because not many enemies have the prescience to do so, beyond the mildly irritating poison, and occasional PAR.
Which China and Sanae can easily repair. In fact, Evil Forge could be seen as that one 10-12F enemy turned up a few notches.
Because it's really not much stronger, just more durable.
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That strike was just a joke.
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You can't repair DTH. SIL is almost as bad as PAR because who the hell uses the basic attack to deal damage?
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Basic attack is fucking awesome for early boss rush and lower leveled enemies.
But useless everywhere else.
Also I need help with Baal Avatar, and yes, I did read the wiki.
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If I'm going into a floor that has enemies that have DTH, I equip accordingly.
Same goes for bosses like Yuyuko. And I use SIL as a forced means to use Focus.
It's kinda like the game's saying "Hey, use Focus more, ya idjit!"
And plus, with folks like Remi, Yuugi, Komachi, and Suika, basic attack can be somewhat useful at times, especially for softening up certain foes that would otherwise survive Royal Flare...Well, on the earlier floors preceding 14F.
So yeah, if an area's got effects I need to watch for, I equip accordingly. And right now China's got..20 DBF/SIL/DTH resist, which isn't that important outside of bosses, since she's primarily meant to just survive hits.
Her PAR/PSN resists are both 26, but she hardly ever gets hit by any status effect despite that. Aside from the occasional PAR, and the ever-annoying DTH on the 10-12F puzzle, courtesy of the Twilight Eyes.
And hardly any of the mobs I've been training on use status effects, eschewing them for just plain ol' muscle, or magic.
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Characters with SIL can still switch. That's already huge when comapred to PAR.
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Well, that was completely stupid.
I get a rare Blue Saber drop, and head back to save, but I hit load instead, ruining all the grinding I had done up to then.
My morale's completely shot....
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Also I need help with Baal Avatar, and yes, I did read the wiki.
Don't bother raising your affinities for this fight, as he's only got 1 elemental spell, and it's really weak anyway. Silence is the only status effect you need to guard against. With that in mind, use your equipment slots to either raise the defense/HP of your more durable characters, or just focus on offense. The latter half of the fight will be a damage race.
You need 2 strong tanks for this fight. Meiling or Tenshi should occupy the first slot, while the 2nd slot should go to whoever you have with great DEF and HP, like Yuugi, Wriggle, or Remilia. Ideally, you have at least 2 characters for the 2nd slot. Group healing with Reimu will be extremely important (although you can get away with MAG-buffed Rumia). Group DEF buffs are also crucial, so Reimu, Yukari, Ran, and Keine are all in high demand. The job of your 2nd slot character shouldn't be to deal damage, since they will be taking heavy damage from row-based attacks and can rarely afford to have their action bar low. Let them assist the tank in switching out slots 2 and 3. One of those slots should be rotating strong attackers (Kanako is great here for double damage on Suiga), while the other should be using Reimu for healing and your buffer of choice for DEF (use an attacker if buffs are full and healing isn't needed).
Alternatively, if you have several attackers with reasonable survivability but not to the level of Yuugi or so, you can switch out slot 2 with your tank while being careful not to have a weakened character out when the boss attacks. This works best with Tenshi, who requires less healing anyway. You can then have more semi-permament members in slots 3 or 4.
Play defensively for the first half of the fight and prioritize buffs and healing over damage. If you have Iku, let her take slot 3 or 4 for a while and have her buff your attackers as they're coming in (but don't be afraid to switch her out if you need defensive buffs or healing). Ran can also work in offensive buffs into her routine if you're using her. Count your damage carefully. After you've dealt 3 million damage (not 4 million, like the wiki says), the Baal Avatar will start gaining a significant amount of ATK and SPD every single turn. At this point, your goal is to merely give him as few remaining turns as possible. If you've been using Iku or Ran, you should ideally have several buffed attackers at this point. Otherwise, you can switch Rinnosuke into slot 1 and let him buff 3 characters quickly (he'll die soon, so switch in your tank once that happens). If your slot 2 character is also a good attacker like Yuugi, then you can try to blitz the boss with Yukari's Spiriting Away and at least 2 attackers. Otherwise, start switching in attackers into both slots 3 and 4, using Reimu for group healing when needed and switching in DEF buffs less frequently. Even though you're damage racing at this point, you still want Tenshi or Meiling in slot 1.
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Thanks Parallaxal, now to ry it again.
Also my Meiling is so much better than my Tenshi now. She has more defense than her and has 60,000 HP (rounded off).
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Does anyone know how to find the item codes for the cheat engine for the first 10 item pages, on Labyrinth Of touhou Special Disc?
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Well, that was completely stupid.
I get a rare Blue Saber drop, and head back to save, but I hit load instead, ruining all the grinding I had done up to then.
My morale's completely shot....
Oh, I get your pain.
After marathoning all three Sora no Kiseki games, I decide to go back to Labyrinth of Touhou and keeps on erasing my own progress by pressing Escape when I try to call up the menu.
(Autokilling the program when a single key is pressed with no confirmation should be against the law)
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could someone give me a save file to Special Disk ver 3.1 with either NG+ with every/most equipment or s***ton of Skill Points?
I ask because of 2 things 1 I want to do it the "Easy way" this time and cheat engine hates me beond help.
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Well, I killed Winner 6 times now, and he finally outspeed my Sakuya.
Man, all the fights with now all boils down to him not spamming Longsword "Rigil" in mid fight, and not scream bloody murder when he is low on health with powerful spells like Summon Nility, and Magical Tempest.
The worst thing is that if he uses Berserker Mode, then followed by Rigil or Sword of Light. He even Sword of Light on poor Yuyuko sitting in the 4th slot.
That being said, though, even with Resist All, Nirvana hits for ALOT. And I hate to say it, but Marisa is now absolutely necessary to tear through him now. Even Nitori wants nothing to do with this guy.
I only wished he uses Wand frost/flame more since those are easy bucket attacks, throughout all 6 defeats, he loves to buff up his defenses and stall, which really annoys me.
How long I will last until I'm bored of him?
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I finally beat Baal Avatar!
And I'm so glad I don't have to fight him again as I got the Gurthang first time.
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How long I will last until I'm bored of him?
Aproximately 8 more times or so. Actually when you reach 15, you will be bored.
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I just hit an unusual situation...
Started over, played up to Eientei, somewhere along shit hit the fan and by time I had everyone lowered to the point I could take them out in 1 round of nukes, my front 3 slots get massacred. Patchy alone in the 4th slot is about to get her turn to throw out one last Royal Flare but she gets outsped and paralyzed ._.
I start getting slammed with 0's (Patchy still had Reimu's MND buffs on her) and after about 2-3 minutes later she's still paralyzed, so I go downstairs to eat. I come back, 20 minutes later, and Patchy is still getting whaled on, still paralyzed, trapped forever.
rageface, ESC, shame
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I just hit an unusual situation...
Started over, played up to Eientei, somewhere along shit hit the fan and by time I had everyone lowered to the point I could take them out in 1 round of nukes, my front 3 slots get massacred. Patchy alone in the 4th slot is about to get her turn to throw out one last Royal Flare but she gets outsped and paralyzed ._.
I start getting slammed with 0's (Patchy still had Reimu's MND buffs on her) and after about 2-3 minutes later she's still paralyzed, so I go downstairs to eat. I come back, 20 minutes later, and Patchy is still getting whaled on, still paralyzed, trapped forever.
rageface, ESC, shame
After that long, you shoulda kept waiting just to log HOW long she was stuck with PAR, then Royal Flare'd everything to show WHO IS THE ULTIMATE MAGITANK OF DOOM! ...or something. Oh well. Hoping you slaughtered em the next fight through.
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I didn't think she would actually XD; my Patchy had 0 PAR resistance so I figured she might have stayed stuck, I don't know what factors into getting out of it, but still, yeah, I owned them afterwards :V
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After a long time, I continued playing this one... Hehe. Brilliant game.
Yesterday I beat Flandre with pure luck (considering that my level avarage is 70)...
It was rather interesting fight as Flandre managed to destroy
my whole team except Meiling, Sakuya, Remilia and Patchouli.
Well, after first Leavatein only Remilia was standing (maybe because she was in back row?)...
Remilia then survived from secon Leavatain and finished Flandre with the Gugnir...
Hehe... Now if I just could beat Yukari with Reimu, Yuyuko, Ran and Chen as the last
characters, that would be sweet...
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So I've beaten the main game, beaten all Bloodseal Bosses (killed Bloody Papa before he can even do a second action! Then repeated it 5 more times til I got bored. XD), all version 2 chars but Mari, did the first Boss Rush, and going to cash in my 5th star which is the Equipment one.
Once I get the 5th star I plan to take on Maribel version 2. Any advice (such as recommended levels) before I fight her as well as the verson 2 Boss Rush? I really had a hard time with Yukari version 2 (non Boss Rush)...
My levels are at an average of 190 with some over 200 like Reimu or Chen, but some below 190 like Yukari.
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I believe she's somewhere between the four sigil guardians and Eiki in difficulty. There's no hurry in beating her, though - you can very much wait until you're ready to take on 27F if you want.
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So I need to be somewhere within level 250-270?
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250-270 is an overestimate for Maribel V2, I'd imagine. Maybe in the 230+ range?
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Is there an issue with fonts? When I play at home, I get a different font than when I play on other PC's. Is it because I'm using Windows XP while the other PC's use Windows 7?
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2950/fontdb.jpg)
I found a screenie from one of the earlier posts (the one on the left) which has the same font as the other PC's while the right screenie's mine.
I've even tried deleting from the font folder and recopying the fonts from the english patch folder and the result's the same. Is this normal or some bug?
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I just hit an unusual situation...
Started over, played up to Eientei, somewhere along shit hit the fan and by time I had everyone lowered to the point I could take them out in 1 round of nukes, my front 3 slots get massacred. Patchy alone in the 4th slot is about to get her turn to throw out one last Royal Flare but she gets outsped and paralyzed ._.
I start getting slammed with 0's (Patchy still had Reimu's MND buffs on her) and after about 2-3 minutes later she's still paralyzed, so I go downstairs to eat. I come back, 20 minutes later, and Patchy is still getting whaled on, still paralyzed, trapped forever.
rageface, ESC, shame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3boY1QQW6w
Same here.
Just disregard the toaster that reduces the framerate.
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Hi thread, I'm new here, and this game is kicking my ass.
I'm at 8F, levels anywhere from 24-30, and Komachi's friggin' spirits are destroying me. And if this is the spirits, I really am scared to go after the first Reisen fight, the final Nitori fight, or Suwako...
Is there really no way to get Death resistance other than grinding out on the Wraiths on 6F for hours and hoping they drop 8 more rings of Hades? (I have 2 Rings and 2 other Death buffers.)
Aaaagh, why can't I just buy items that I already have...? Or cheat myself up eight more somehow.
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Farm Rings of Hades on 7F there are much more there.
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Reisen fight is piss easy. There's nothing to be afraid of other than missing her drop.
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Abuse PAR on Reisen. Defeat her first before her mooks (don't kill the mooks or even kill one) to get her drop which is really good.
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You can actually kill 3 of Reisen's mooks before her and still get the drop. You just have to kill Reisen before you kill her 4th mook. And if you can't keep her mooks paralyzed or just don't care about her drop item, just spam group nukes every turn to force Reisen to waste her turns resummoning instead of actually attacking (this drains her entire active gauge). There's really nothing to worry about; she pretty much is the easiest boss in the game.
For Nitori, give Meiling a Love Machine #### to have her survive Megawatt Linear Gun. The rest of your team should emphasize NTR resistance (for Extending Arm), and your 2nd slot characters might also consider CLD resistance (For Kappa's Pororoca).
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So, there's no easy way to grind out the Rings of Hades, or just cheat myself up enough?
Looks like I'm going to be at this for ages.
Thanks for the advice on the bosses, though.
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Those spirits were a very real threat to me too on my last playthru, I just explored the rest of the floor first, or did you do that already? It also helps to have out characters that have a naturally high dth resist. Remember, all resistances are tripled. so even if a character only has 18 dth resist, it's actually 54..
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Oooh. Didn't realize that. Well, I've started busting the Spirits without any more death boosting items, (just 2 rings, a forbidden tablet, and one other random item) Maybe the extra levels helped. ... I'm still gonna have to grind them for Yuyuko, though, aren't I?
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You don't need to grind in this game at all until the final boss. Though it's likely you'll have to grind some before 16f or 18f boss if it's your first playthru. I personally rarely put on more than 2 or 3 of the things for yuyu and IIRC they can drop naturally later on as well.
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Depends on what level you are. When I fought Yuyuko, I beat her the first try w/o any Hades Rings. Although I forgot what level I was and some of my mates did got insta DTH'd. Prolly at early-mid 70's for all my chars.
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I only used four Rings of Hades for Yuyuko. I put them on Tenshi, Iku, Reimu, and Patchouli, along with lots and lots of SPI affinity boosters. Add Great Hakurei Barrier, and you're pretty close to invincible, since Yuyuko doesn't use any physical attacks. This was at low-mid sixties for Reimu if I'm remembering right.
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So does anyone actually have a save file right at 30F? It doesn't matter if you're levelled enough to fight one of the bosses.
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http://www.mediafire.com/?zsvhiz6gky7e3ya (http://www.mediafire.com/?zsvhiz6gky7e3ya)
Floor 30 with unkilled bosses. Lvl 676 Reimu.
Not sure if the lvl-up build I use would suit your style though.
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Wow! Thank you. That is a really high level. And the level ups shouldn't matter to me.
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For anyone interested, I snipped a nice picture for Patchouli for LoT.
(http://i.imgur.com/ca9dK.png)
http://www.mediafire.com/?cssx1pdca51fiu3
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rofl. I couldn't find a good patchy pic for this game for the longest time...Now this one is TOO good, makes all the other ones look out of place lol >=P.
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Glad my amateur photoshopping was useful for someone. Anyone else you new decent pictures for? (aside from everyone else)
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For anyone interested, I snipped a nice picture for Patchouli for LoT.
You have my thanks.
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I was not very satisfied with the Renko picture and the downloaded chara-graphs didn't fit me well I had so I snipped another picture for the game.
(http://i.imgur.com/lg5ow.png)
http://www.mediafire.com/?y2e7c825azqjixa
Sorry if I am becoming a bit spammy with these pictures.
And I found out that this picture was in one of the folder archived (SpookedMouse). Sorry! How do I delete this post?
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I don't think you can anymore. But don't apologize for the pics, that patchy one is glorius, it's just your fault when I fail miserably at soloing my next game using her >=P
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I wish Sayori would draw the rest of the cast, since the characters he's done so far look great
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Uh anyone have a good place to download the Special Disk etc in english? The downloads at the front of the thread are for 2.06 and 2.04. Looking for a 3.01 download.
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Uh anyone have a good place to download the Special Disk etc in english? The downloads at the front of the thread are for 2.06 and 2.04. Looking for a 3.01 download.
You mean the patch?
Translation patch for 3.01 is here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?5xghaxevcm0m1t5
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Ahhh...after a small hiatus from this game, I'm finally getting back to it.
See, as several folks know, I had to take my computer in for repairs last month, and didn't get it back until after GenCon Indy was over.
Thankfully, I had backed up all my important stuff, like this game. And I've finally gotten all my stuff back in order to start back into my old groove of things.
...Now then...Where was I again..? .....Oh yes, now I remember. It was after the slip-up with the Blue Saber...Oh joy. =_=;
Welp, here we go again, back into the grindfest....Maybe this time I can get the Forge's drop.
EDIT: En no Ozuno, Y U DO NO DAMAGE TO YUYUKO?!
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I don't think Ran has much damage output as dedicated MAG nukers. Personaly, I use her for Banquet of 12 General Gods only and go offensive as an absolute last resort. Then again, I focused on DEF and MND with minor MAG from the get-go.
Also, Yuyuko has strong MND.
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Ran is actually pretty capable as a nuke if you build her to be one. She's actually probably better at it than kanako. she just doesn't get considered as one so much because her buffs are so good, and her defenses are so good. People just think, oh good defenses, can't be a nuke (lol). Ran's speed and delays are also really good, so while her nukes may not hit as hard, the speed and delay makes it more compareable (Sure it's not chen fast, but it's not some D rank speed character using nukes with 100%-80% delay). Her attack elements aren't as useful as kanako's though, so. yeah.
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I use Ran in random battles though as a sweeper but in boss fights as a buffer. She's quite a good sweeper. That said, I never removed her from my party. Evar.
Than again, it's cause I'm more of a Ran fan.
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Sorry if I'm going off topic, but does anybody know where I can get a charagraph set that uses the characters' original appearances from the Touhou games? That Patchy pic is awesome btw.
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You mean ZUN art? Not that I know any, but you can pretty much click on a character's portait or profile on the wiki (ex. TH12 Reimu (http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/6/6e/Th12Reimu.png)) and work from there... Fortunately the background's white making things easier.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Special_Disk
"Custom Portraits" is what you need to read. Sorry this is all I can give...
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The background is basically my only problem. I don't know how to make it transparant, otherwise I could make the whole set myself. Is there any way to easily turn backgrounds transparant? I tried figuring it out once, but didn't make much progress ???
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A quick sloppy non pro way would be to just open it up in photoshop, use the magic wand on the white border, and hit delete. Umm Make sure the tolerance isn't so high that it catches some white stuff on the character too.
If the character has too many white stuffs on them that gets caught by the wand. Select the outline of hte character using the magnetic lasso (you can use other stuff too but the magic lasso is pretty noob friendly imo). It snaps to colour changes, and "saves" your progress as you select an area, if one of the checkpoint thingies is incorrect, just push delete and it'll back up a checkpoint, easy. But yeah, then just select the portrait using it. Then in the select menu click inverse (I think Alt-I works too, don't remember, been years lol), then delete.
If you don't have photoshop, beats me.
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OK Thanks for advice. I don't have photoshop but thats alright! It turns out the pictures on "that" wiki have transparant backgrounds anyway, so I can basically just throw them right into the charagraph folder.
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Why does the text in my touhou labyrinth look different compared to the videos of touhou labyrinth on youtube?
I have 3.01 Special Disc
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Welp, next one is Remilia. I kind of felt I had a bad job on this snip. Doesn't help that the red moon behind her is the freaking same color as her clothes and her Gungnir but moreso that Gungnir's glow was translucent between two different background colors. Anyone better than me, feel free to polish and repost =P.
(http://i.imgur.com/8Aptp.png)
http://www.mediafire.com/?b8x1a32jieqm3zs
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I've been trying to find a good picture for Mokou that emphasizes her "cuteness" rather than her "kickass-ness". If you could do one for her that would be pretty cool.
Yes, I'm a big fan of Mokou :D
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It seems all Pixiv artists get the same "How to draw a cute Mokou" handbook, because it looks like 90% of them start with Step 1: Add mini-skirt and cat ears
EDIT: Are these cute enough?
[attach=1 width=120]
Lot_Mokou_Cute_1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?mk0c5w314c588)
[attach=2 width=120]
Lot_Mokou_Cute_2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?mk0c5w314c588)
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Argh! I can't make a ZUN art charagraph since I lack Iku's and Tenshi's... D:
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I haven't played it for a long time so this might be dumb. But.. DS doesn't have images of em?
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No it doesn't. Only people with a pic in DS were Aya and Hatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatae.
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No full portrait for DS and only ZUN sketches for SWR.
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Anybody have a save right after they unlocked the 21st floor? I want to go through the last bit but i dont want to spend the time to get the stars right now.
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It seems all Pixiv artists get the same "How to draw a cute Mokou" handbook, because it looks like 90% of them start with Step 1: Add mini-skirt and cat ears
EDIT: Are these cute enough?
Sorry about the late reply; I've had no internet access. About the pictures, I was thinking more along the lines of "uber-loli," like the kind of thing that's often done with characters like Suwako or Tewi; however, considering the only charagraphs I've found for her show her either engulfed in flames or smoking, those two are pretty cute in comparison. So in short, yes, they're cute enough. :3
Also if anybody can point me to a char portiart maker with no morel at all it would be appreciated.
If by "no morel at all" you mean " no morals at all," and by that you mean "sexual or otherwise NSFW," I know there's a swimsuit set out there, but other than that idk.
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Possibly cuter
[attach=1 width=120]
LoT_Mokou_Cute_3 (http://www.mediafire.com/?mk0c5w314c588)
[attach=2 width=120]
LoT_Mokou_Cute_4 (http://www.mediafire.com/?mk0c5w314c588)
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Oh god yes! Those are super cute, thanks a bunch~ :3
Btw, an unrelated question, does raising a character's elemental affinity over 500 have any further effect? The wiki says 500's the limit, but it seems they can go beyond that.
Going for 30th floor boss, I need all the affinity I can get...
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Oh it helps, but it has exponentially diminishing returns. Affinity is in the denominator of the damage formula, so while raising it from 100 to 200 halves elemental damage, to do the same at 500 would require an increase to 1000. Each three points from an SP upgrade gets more expensive and more individually useless.
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Well to be fair, it may be more economical to raise the affinity of a character that has abysmal mind (Komachi, Youmu, Yuugi, Reisen, Flandre) than to raise their mind itself. Not sure if it is works for inverted cased with physically weak character but I recall there are a lot more non-elemental physical attacks than magical.
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The main problem is that everyone seems to take the same damage against 30 floor boss, no matter what the defensive stats, so it seems I have no choice but to improve affinities and max HP. I'm not sure since I don't use her, but Komachi may actually be a really good tank for this fight.
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He has almost 50% more ATT and 100% more MAG than SoC and possess some def ignoring skills. The problem is a large portion of his repertoire have a neutral elemental affinity. all but one of the element based attacks are also mind oriented as well but said spells can also hurt like hell if you have holes in your affinities.
I'm not sure about the potential of Komachi's tanking potential since I am using an ATT Komachi whom I use on my second slot instead of my first with the first slot generally having Meiling. However Komachi is almost never one shotted due to the sheer amount of HP and with a capable healer like Minoriko, she can stay there for perpetuity until the healer needs to be switched out.
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All right...I'm actually starting a TvTropes page for this game! Please check it out and edit if you'd like:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TouhouLabyrinth
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You think it's best to discuss the change to make sure we're all in agreement that this and this should belong here and there? For example, I would note a slight subversion to Patchouli being a squishy wizard since she takes virtually no damage to magic attacks. Also with the boss immunity thing, not too many bosses are immune to both status AND debuffs. Of course Patchy in your playthrough is having a field day with lampshading.
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Ok... So I finally beat the 30th floor boss through good old fashioned grinding. (level was in the 550-650 range). Now that I've done this... just how do I do a new game +?
EDIT: Nevermind! I've got it. You just start a new game and it asks if you want to carry over data after all the intro dialogue.
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Speaking of new game+. I'm done milking my old file worth of fun where even Winner is getting boring. I think I will start a new run with 12 limited characters. Not sure who should I be limited to using though. Any ideas?
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Speaking of new game+. I'm done milking my old file worth of fun where even Winner is getting boring. I think I will start a new run with 12 limited characters. Not sure who should I be limited to using though. Any ideas?
Patchy solo
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Speaking of new game+. I'm done milking my old file worth of fun where even Winner is getting boring. I think I will start a new run with 12 limited characters. Not sure who should I be limited to using though. Any ideas?
Meiling and just random.org the other 11.
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You should instead lmit yourself to just 4 or 5 characters, but carry over stuff from your old game. That would be interesting :3
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Carrying over stuff for a 4 character only run is lame. You get to spend the skillpoints on those 4 only, so there's never much need for spreading out resources.
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Meiling and just random.org the other 11.
Even more fun, randomize all 12. If you don't get tanks then :dwi:
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I find runs with only 4 characters to be rather boring. It removes the switching strategy in battle, which I find to be one of the most compelling things about this game, so I don't really see myself having that much fun with that. Then it'd be no different from any other RPG. At that point, I'd rather just play Etrian Odyssey.
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Well I was kind of joking about using 4 characters... Personally I'm going to try another game using only my favorite characters, regardless of their playability. i.e. Mokou, Rumia, Utsuho...
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All right...I'm actually starting a TvTropes page for this game! Please check it out and edit if you'd like:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TouhouLabyrinth
Awesome! I was looking for a page like a month or so ago and didn't find any.
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Ah... hi I'm kinda new to this forum although I lurk, every now and then anticipating, the next new Touhou stuff happening.
But, enough about the short introduction, well... first off I love Labyrinth of Touhou Special Disk, but I can't stand the grinding, and I really would like to unlock Mokou and Yuyuko, but, my current party all range from 47 ~ 59.
Although I did managed to get to 16F, I just want some help with using the Cheat Table in cheat engine so, I can at least be able to do some floors in peace, and not have to worry about going back and forward, also I would like some advice on how to use Cheat engine properly or at least grind without worrying about dropping dead.
Also, make things straight on my Yuyuko and Mokou problem, I do know how to handle Yuyuko, it's just that I hate the fact I need to do some grinding to survive a bit longer but, for Mokou... I hate trying to wait for the resurrection phase to happen even though my Nitori was hitting her with at least 40k+ damage thanks to Ran and Sanae buffing, and I do know that need to spam debuffs on her but, I tend to run out of ammo when I use my heavy hitters, due to how long it takes for me to hit snipe her down.
Sorry for the long rant and posting but, I really NEED some serious help and advice on some stuff. ???
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Doesn't Mokou remove all of her debuffs when she uses resurrection anyway? It's probobly better to focus on buffing yourself. Keep you strongest nukes (Marisa, Nitori, etc.) fully buffed and in the reserve party; they won't be debuffed by Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse, and you can just throw them out once Mokou uses resurrection, and finish her off as quickly as possible. Cirno is also a god in this fight, due to Mokou's vulnerability to cold, stat debuff, and paralysis. With Cirno, the pre-resurrection phase should be a cakewalk. I'm pretty sure Mokou becomes immune to ailments at the end though, so like I said, buffing yourself is important.
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Mokou is one of the first bosses in the game that will go into "overdrive" toward the end of the fight. Once she uses Resurrection, then the fight turns into "Kill her or die trying". You should do all of your offensive buffs and support prior to this phase, because you won't have time to do them when she goes berserk (nevermind that Resurrection erases all debuffs on Mokou, as well as makes her immune to any more for the rest of the fight).
Fortunately, most bosses that have this ending phase, are usually fairly low on HP. Ideally, you will want to defeat the boss before they get to move once the final phase begins. Some bosses MUCH later will have desperation modes, but you'll have to endure them for a bit longer. That is, unless you are insanely powerful. The final boss illustrates this nicely. The first time, you'll likely struggle through the fight, but you can challenge her at anytime after you complete the game. Go back and fight again after 40 levels or so, and completely trash her.
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Do recall that Mokou will spam Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse if you debuff her speed, so if you want to use Cirno for that, make sure your team is outfitted with WND resistance and debuff resistance. Also, do note that the majority of Mokou's attacks target DEF instead of MND, including Fujiyama Volcano, which is the opposite of what you'd expect given how she plays once she gets recruited.
I find it best to prepare at least 2 or more characters with high fire resistance and good defenses/HP. When you see Mokou use Resurrection, immediately swap those characters in, and hopefully they'll be able to survive the first blast of Fujiyama Volcano. Yuugi, Remilia, and any other tank-like characters can do this if you've invested reasonably in their FIR resistance and give them Bomb Rings or Love Machines. The more characters that can survive the first Fujiyama Volcano, the faster you can switch in nukers like Nitori or Marisa to finish Mokou off.
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Do recall that Mokou will spam Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse if you debuff her speed, so if you want to use Cirno for that, make sure your team is outfitted with WND resistance and debuff resistance. Also, do note that the majority of Mokou's attacks target DEF instead of MND, including Fujiyama Volcano, which is the opposite of what you'd expect given how she plays once she gets recruited.
I find it best to prepare at least 2 or more characters with high fire resistance and good defenses/HP. When you see Mokou use Resurrection, immediately swap those characters in, and hopefully they'll be able to survive the first blast of Fujiyama Volcano. Yuugi, Remilia, and any other tank-like characters can do this if you've invested reasonably in their FIR resistance and give them Bomb Rings or Love Machines. The more characters that can survive the first Fujiyama Volcano, the faster you can switch in nukers like Nitori or Marisa to finish Mokou off.
Yeah, I just got through brawling with Mokou, and I must say my Tenshi and Meiling really did a great job on making Mokou's Fujiyama Volcano look like a joke, Suika survived by the skin of her teeth in the 4th solt although I did lose my Aya but, I managed to overpower her with my Nitori who was already buffed by Ran and Sanae.
Nitori did: 55k back to back two times when Mokou went beserk.
I should of recorded because, amazingly my Suwako was dealing 24k damage and no PAR hit until like close to her Beserk phase.
Thanks for the advice and reminders of why I despise trying to recruit Mokou...
*grumbles* After 63k damage done by my Nitori and 55k done by Patchouli she didn't do Ressucrection. :getdown:
Also I would like to say for the record I love Suwako due to her Iron Rings and Croaking Frog Eaten by Snake although I know Cirno is good at PARing too, I prefer to make the bosses "hold still" while I smack some sense into them. :V
Edit 1: Now... if only if I could turn the encounters off with cheat engine...
Edit 2:
Just making sure if I'm reading the requirements correctly for Kaguya on the wiki, I have to get a total of 1,000 battle points between Sanae, Reisen, Eirin, and Mokou, correct me if I'm wrong but, does it mean I have to 1,000 battle points for all of them or do I just need a total 1,000 battle points on Sanae, Reisen, Eirin, and Mokou?
I just want to make sure, that I'm not doing the wrong thing. :ohdear:
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You need a total of 1,000 points, divided amongst them. You can split it up however you want. (This is completely unrelated, but your last post contains numerous comma splices. The comma should go before the word "but" instead of after. Being a grammar-nazi, I have to point these things out.::))
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You need a total of 1,000 points, divided amongst them. You can split it up however you want. (This is completely unrelated, but your last post contains numerous comma splices. The comma should go before the word "but" instead of after. Being a grammar-nazi, I have to point these things out.::))
Thank you Zil.
I just wanted to make sure that I had gotten the requirement for Kaguya correct.
So, for now I will just go around with Mokou, Sanae, Eirin, and Reisen and spam the lower floors. :colonveeplusalpha:
Then take my anger out on the FOE. :3
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OK time for my 2nd run. Went in random.org and got these 12 out of the drawbag.
Sanae
Patchouli
Meiling
Kaguya
Cirno
Wriggle
Utsuko
Yuugi
Eiki
Komachi
Kanako
Reimu
Going to analyze my team a bit.
Healers: Sanae, Reimu, and (to a lesser degree) Meiling which gives me a decent coverage here along with two that heals status effects.
Tanks: Meiling, Wriggle, as primary and Komachi as secondary. Reimu and Kamako is probably going to hang around the 2nd slot.
Buffs; Sanae and Reimu. Yeah I am missing a a lot of buffing potential here.
Debuffs: Cirno and Komachi, Eiki can help as well if it is crucial though most likely she's going to be attacking. Okuu is probably going to be doing it innately.
Status effects: Cirno, Wriggle, Reimu, Komachi, Yuugi. Decent paralyzation coverage here.
Attackers: Patchouli, Kaguya, Okuu, Yuugi, Eiki, Komachi, Kanako. That's half of my roster! Also I have 3 defense ignoring characters as well!
Before I begin, I snipped out a decent Reimu picture here.
(http://i.imgur.com/jFicc.png)
http://www.mediafire.com/?44k8kbfmx2zovmx
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Go full defensive build with Poison as main dps :V
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Looks like a perfectly fine and balanced team. Your buffing capabilities are perfectly fine (don't forget that Kaguya also buffs). Before Iku was discovered, everyone was using Sanae as their offensive buffer anyway.
You have every element covered, although you're a bit weak on MYS with Giga Flare as your only real option. Eiki goes a long way towards solving any issues with elements, so that's not that big of a deal.
With Wriggle as a secondary tank, you would probably benefit more from developing Komachi as a dedicated attacker. Scythe that Chooses the Dead has a pretty good damage formula, and its relatively low delay for its power combined with Komachi's good HP means she can stay out to spam it while taking advantage of Miracle Fruit's boosts to both ATK and SPD.
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With how much discussion, playthroughs and theory that's been done on this game, I'd really like to see how player battles could be like. It would be anything from 4v4 to 12v12.
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I've been thinking. Is it actually possible to change the enemy pictures?
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I've been thinking. Is it actually possible to change the enemy pictures?
I too wonder this.
I did have a crack at it and couldn't figure it out, but I'm hardly competent at this sort of thing. I get stumped unless everything is basically laid out for me.
While I'm at it, anyone know if you could change the names of the characters? I wouldn't even know where to begin with changing those, but I just like being able to change everything to my whim. :V
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Curse... you... MARIBEL HAN!!!
I swear... she is a major troll... even though I can survive the first phase of the battle due to my team being ranged from level 93+.
However, when it comes down to the phase where she spawns Shredding Amnesieri, Aria-singing Toruastory ,and Staring Igmaruji.
I have to kick and scream my way through the fight ,although I do know the flaws of the 3 minions.
The part where Maribel goes berserk mode kills me.
Is there a way I can at least have a decent piece of mind... without having to worry about Maribel going ape on me? :ohdear:
Edit: Nevermind I just defeated Maribel myself ... and I got to say...
GAWD! WHAT A PAIN IN THE ASS! :getdown:
The battle turned into a "Who can spam moves better" war. :derp:
The Results:
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv67/ZoraSmile/GAWD.jpg)
Maribel... you have won my respect BUT YOU'RE GOING ON MY RAGE LIST!!!! :colonveeplusalpha:
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So I'm at Reimu lv230something. I know I can beat Celestial Bright Demon, but what about Yuuka? Or should I keep exploring 26F?
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So I'm at Reimu lv230something. I know I can beat Celestial Bright Demon, but what about Yuuka? Or should I keep exploring 26F?
26F, huh? How much have you explored? Have you defeated Eiki yet? If so, then you should be able to defeat Yuuka.
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Just reached her now, actually. I haven't tried fighting her yet.
Also it seems Reimu is lv244 now, after that exploring. (And Eirin finally broke 200... :derp: )
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Personally, I think Yuuka is a little easier than Shikieiki. Yuuka is not immune to debuffs/paralysis, doesn't bust out her insta-wipe nuke too early randomly, has exploitable elemental weaknesses, and might not even kill everyone with Master Spark if you've got Komachi with absurd MYS resistance.
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so ya i just started this game and I'm at eintei.....
any strategies recommended to beat them?
I'm sure that someone already asked this question before, but give me a break.....
there are like 7 floors each with like 30 pages of comments...
it'll take FOREVER to read all that, and I have stuff to do (mostly touhou>schoolwork>other stuff)
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so ya i just started this game and I'm at eintei.....
any strategies recommended to beat them?
I'm sure that someone already asked this question before, but give me a break.....
there are like 7 floors each with like 30 pages of comments...
it'll take FOREVER to read all that, and I have stuff to do (mostly touhou>schoolwork>other stuff)
The eternal question. Many people have different approaches, but they mainly follow these lines:
-Keep Reisen paralyzed and kill her last.
-Try to kill Eirin and Kaguya at the same time, to avoid their devastating attacks if one falls before the other. Eirin has more HP than Kaguya, though.
-Limit debuffing the bosses, or Kaguya will counter with Buddha's Stone Bowl. You likely won't survive the full counterattack.
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The eternal question. Many people have different approaches, but they mainly follow these lines:
-Keep Reisen paralyzed and kill her last.
-Try to kill Eirin and Kaguya at the same time, to avoid their devastating attacks if one falls before the other. Eirin has more HP than Kaguya, though.
-Limit debuffing the bosses, or Kaguya will counter with Buddha's Stone Bowl. You likely won't survive the full counterattack.
Now what I did was actually very different from that. (Admittedly, I may have been doing it all wrong) I focused on killing Reisen as quickly as possible, and debuffed and paralyzed the remaining two with Cirno. Of course, I still tried to kill Kaguya and Eirin at the same time, that's basically a must do. I've never tried the other way though, so like I said, my strategy may be crap, and I may have only won because I was over-leveled or something.
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I went into Eientei with no strategy other than 'don't debuff' (after trying for a week or so with relentless debuffing), and 'survived' Entombing twice by having Komachi out. Good times. :V
Currently, I've done V2 boss rush (easy) and 22F boss (easier), in preparation for Yuuka. I'm thinking if Flandre is worth it, mostly because delaying the gauge is annoying even if Laevatein is absurdly powerful.
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Personally I found Shikieiki way easier than Yuuka. It took me like 5 tries to take Yuuka down and never fell to Yama. Which is why I ditched the Rhododendron Dress but kept loading to nab the Gantz Suit.
As for Eientei, go for global PAR characters like Reimu, Komachi and Cirno and dedicated PAR chars like Suwako and even Yuugi. The fight never gave me trouble. Then again, I may be really lucky though since Reisen never got a turn, Kaguya only did 1 attack which did 1.5k t oa single member and Eirin did only 1 attack which did 0 to Yuugi.
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Well... here's the shocking thing... I did when I was fighting Eientei I used Suwako or Yuugi, PAR for Eirin or Reisen then here's the twist use PSN on Reisen and Eirin with either Yuugi or Wriggle and trust me don't PSN Kaguya yet.
Then keep damaging Kaguya, Reisen, and Eirin but mostly Reisen and Eirin, but don't kill Reisen because when Eirin goes to use Hourai Elixir she'll be busy trying to heal Reisen and will ignore Kaguya for who you will be poisoning after you think you have done enough damage to her.
Also, you should buff yourself too while you're at it with Ran and Sanae, also have Reimu to throw in her barrier move then when Eirin is busy healing Reisen use PSN on Kaguya.
When you see Kaguya focus, hit her with either a buffed up Patchouli with Royal Flare or Silent Selene, Nitori's Gun move, or Yuugi's Knock Out in 3 Steps.
Mostly I had to be careful due to that I know they will go for trying to hurt you badly.
I also advise you on bringing in Tenshi to tank most of the hits with high affinity to all elements and resistance to all status effects trust me I had a great laugh when the Eientei crew kept doing 0 or little damage to my Tenshi.
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As for Eientei, go for global PAR characters like Reimu, Komachi and Cirno and dedicated PAR chars like Suwako and even Yuugi.
Komachi's PAR comes with debuffs. And you don't want those.
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But also with PSN.
Admittedly, she wasn't of too much use when I used her.
She was really only there as a Damagesponge.
I would've used Tenshi instead, but I was using most of my SKP on others who could get more use right away, like Reimu, who needed better survivability, or Yuugi, who needed more HP, STR, and etc.
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Defeated Yuuka on my first try somehow :o
I had lost all my tanks and basically anyone defensive when Yuuka finally decided to focus. My plan was that Komachi could survive Master Spark and switch in Flandre, who was the only nuker I had left. She nuked HARD, but I then I couldn't switch her out...
Fortunately, Flan barely outsped Yuuka and nuked again, finishing her. :D
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Komachi's PAR comes with debuffs. And you don't want those.
I honestly don't quite remember if I used her or not, haha. But I'm 110% sure bout Kaguya and Eirin only getting one turn and that's it, never got another one.
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My Eientei strategy is to start with Reimu, Cirno, Ran, and a tank. Reimu's there for PAR, of course, and Ran's there to buff ATK and MAG before switching out for Suwako, who's there to help hit the more-resistant Eirin and Kaguya with PAR. Cirno, meanwhile, uses Icicle Fall to debuff that pair's SPD. Reisen doesn't need to be hit with a SPD debuff since she stays paralyzed, and two debuffs doesn't trigger Buddha's Stone Bowl. With those two slowed, surviving becomes a lot easier. Reimu heals or paralyzes as necessary, and the tank keeps tanking. If single-target heals are needed, Minoriko comes in to do that. Meanwhile, Ran gets called back in for more ATK/MAG buffing. Once she's done, I switch to Yuugi as my tank with Reimu, Nitori, and Sanae. Reimu's still healing or hitting with PAR, and Yuugi and Nitori are ripping Kaguya a new one while Sanae alternates between them with Miracle Fruit. At this point, Kaguya goes down quickly.
With Kaguya down, Komachi gets to come in and debuff the crap out of Eirin and Reisen. Alice comes in, too, and hits Eirin's MAG. Yuugi and Nitori still do most of the attacking, although I'll bring in Patchy and Youmu for a bit if they run low on SP. Suwako gets her fair share of use here, too, as she's in charge of backing up Komachi's PAR and keeping Eirin from acting. The MAG debuff keeps damage down, and if you keep a full debuff on her, you've got a safety net in case she gets off an Astronomical Entombing. And once Eirin's down, of course, Reisen just gets the shit beaten out of her.
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Eiki down, and 27F reached.
Renko/Mystia/Chen/filler are the best trash-clearing team ever.
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Have fun farming skillpoints.
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Thinking about playing this game again with a themed team. Probably by using the cast of a certain game.
Question is I can't decide if I should to an official game or a fangame like touhouvania.
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Do the Touhouvania cast. It might be interesting to see what you can do with extra tanks, a lone off-healer and no big buffs.
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Finally reached 10-12F.
Only now my game crashes on the spot any time one of the random encounters manages to land that single target DTH spell that I can't remember the name of.
Anyone else get this problem? I can't really play knowing that my entire progress into this puzzle is dependent upon the RNG not fucking me around.
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Finally reached 10-12F.
Only now my game crashes on the spot any time one of the random encounters manages to land that single target DTH spell that I can't remember the name of.
Anyone else get this problem? I can't really play knowing that my entire progress into this puzzle is dependent upon the RNG not fucking me around.
I never experienced this problem, but you could probobly avoid it by:
a) using death-resistant gear
b) using death resistant characters
c) killing the enemy that uses the spell as quickly as possible (Cirno and Chen can probobly do that quite nicely)
Personally, once I got Cirno, I basically demolished every random encounter throughout the rest of the game without getting hit, just by opening with Daimond Blizzard and paralyzing everything. I have no memory of characters getting OHKO'd that early on, so I was probobly avoiding the spell via "method c" all along.
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34 DTH resistance should render you immune to every instant death causing spell in the game, I believe. So it's certainly not an insurmountable obstacle. You can always just farm Rings of Hades on the earlier floors.
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Thanks for the responses.
I'll guess I just have to power through this then. :3
Good thing I preemptively farmed 12 Rings of Hades in preparation for Yuyuko. :]
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It does seem like it'd be pretty annoying to have to devote an equipment slot to null instant death for every boss that can use the effect, but I don't think there are too many that use it, I guess.
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Strangely enough, it's not every instant death spell that is causing it.
I got killed by the row target instant death spell that Komachi's ghosts have on multiple occasions with no issues regarding crashes.
It only appears to be Stygian Ferry that's causing it.
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Isn't it that bug where if the first slot is empty and you get hit by a row attack it crashes?
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Hey guys. Thanks to Deranged's work the stat formulas from the JP wiki are translated. I think he previously posted these same formulas in here for ATK/DEF/MAG/MND, but here it is for all the stats:
HP = ((Current Level + 6) * Growth Rate + 12) * Parameter Multiplier
SP = ((Current Level / 8) * Growth Rate + 100) * Parameter Multiplier
ATK = ((Current Level + 4) * Growth Rate + 3) * Parameter Multiplier
DEF = ((Current Level + 4) * Growth Rate + 1) * Parameter Multiplier
MAG = ((Current Level + 4) * Growth Rate + 2) * Parameter Multiplier
MND = ((Current Level + 4) * Growth Rate + 1) * Parameter Multiplier
SPD = ((Current Level / 32) * Growth Rate) * Parameter Multiplier + 100
EVA = who cares? but it's ((Current Level / 12) * Growth Rate + 2) * Parameter Multiplier
Parameter Multiplier is a bit different for each stat, but it's where levelup bonuses and skill point level bonuses come in. It starts at 1 for all stats on a fresh level 1 character with one exception: for Remilia's ATK, it starts at 0.84.
For HP, you add 0.03 for each level gained, 0.02 for each levelup bonus assigned, and 0.04 for each skill point level assigned.
For SP, you add 0.01 for each levelup bonus or skill point level assigned; it gains nothing for just leveling up.
For all other stats, you add 0.02 for each level gained, 0.02 for each levelup bonus assigned, and 0.04 for each skill point level assigned.
Item bonuses are also added here, I believe.
No rounding is performed; all decimals are truncated.
So Remilia's base ATK deficit is actually significantly less punishing in the long term than it sounds - just four extra skillpoint levels erases it entirely, equalizing her with the other characters who share her ATK growth (Suika and Rinnosuke).
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Isn't it that bug where if the first slot is empty and you get hit by a row attack it crashes?
Stygian Ferry is single target, and always appears to hit the first slot, but the game crashes after the attack hits and instant kills whoever I happen to be using for a Slot 1 character at the time.
I invite people to puzzle it out, but the problem that this causes has since become negligible now that I outspeed the enemies that cause the crash. >:-)
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I have a question...
Is there a way to increase the native size of the screen in windowed mode? Even when I try to play in full-screen mode, my resolution changes but the *size of the playing screen* is STILL the same... it would be nice if you could expand it. I'm not that tech-savvy, but is it possible?
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I have a question...
Is there a way to increase the native size of the screen in windowed mode? Even when I try to play in full-screen mode, my resolution changes but the *size of the playing screen* is STILL the same... it would be nice if you could expand it. I'm not that tech-savvy, but is it possible?
The game itself is fixed at 640x480. I don't know if 3rd-party window expanders will work with LoT or not, but it's definitely not possible within the game's own settings.
The fullscreen issue you're having might be resolvable though, it'd take some fiddling around with your monitor's scaling settings at resolutions other than its native resolution. I don't remember offhand where to find those options though (possibly around your video card configuration).
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The game itself is fixed at 640x480. I don't know if 3rd-party window expanders will work with LoT or not, but it's definitely not possible within the game's own settings.
I just tried expanding it with sizer, and oddly it doesn't work with LoT :wat:.
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Been experimenting with MAG-build on Eirin. Finding it fairly unimpressive so far.
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The game's window sizes are hardcoded. The guys that made the english patch tried to hack in a fix and it didn't work.
Been experimenting with MAG-build on Eirin. Finding it fairly unimpressive so far.
Eirin is unimpressive in general
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Thank you for your answers! I shall patiently await the day somebody cracks this window size matter... :ohdear:
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This may be kind of going overboard, but if you want the window bigger, you could possibly use some kind of screen recording program to capture the LoT window, make the recording program's window really big, and then play LoT by looking at the recording window. I used to do that with the PC-98 games until I realized how to fullscreen them.
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This may be kind of going overboard, but if you want the window bigger, you could possibly use some kind of screen recording program to capture the LoT window, make the recording program's window really big, and then play LoT by looking at the recording window. I used to do that with the PC-98 games until I realized how to fullscreen them.
Whoa... I could manage that with two monitors, and I do have two monitors! O: Overboard indeed.
Time to experiment...
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I forget, but do any of the image packs in the OP have sayori's Tenshi/Iku artwork? I know I was linked to it somewhere.
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Okay, so things finally got tough again on Winner, Fight #15; his "Long Sword - Rigil" row attack is worse than ever, he now one-shots a 80% health Reimu in the 2nd slot with ease. Only Meiling and Komachi at full health can survive his "Sword of Light", and of course, full health is not the case. And a personal favourite - Berserker Mode followed by a Sword of Light and a Rigil for instant wreckage.
The fight is still winnable, but would need a lot of luck that involves Paralyzing with Komachi/Renko (lol good luck), or with Yukari/Kaguya loop, and also having the AI roulette for his to use his weak sauce spells over the physical attacks.
I might just give up here, My Nitori is at like Lv. 450 for anything important, this is getting nuts. If there is a way to hack massively, I would like to see a Winner #100 just for laughs.
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There is a way to hack WINNER to any loop you want
00119328
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I assume that this is the address, if so, it is not working for me. Pretty sure it is not correct, since it would read 15 as soon as I entered it, and not 1.
Also, does CC not work for Windows 7 or something? I keep getting an error.
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My cheat engine address only works for XP. Looks like you have to do it yourself.. It's really not that hard.
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I am using XP now for the cheat engine. =/
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Greetings fellow Touhou players. I found this awesome game about a month back and I haven't been able to tear myself away from it since. It's like Etrian Odyssey on crack I can't seem to get enough of it :D
I just recently hit the 16F wall and have been grinding away little by little. I currently have all the available characters save for Orin, Flan, Mokou, and Kaguya
15F I can't even fight yet because I can't seem to kill Triomagen. Friggin' heal is WAY too powerful. I mean I can nuke but I can't nuke THAT hard yet... The insane amount of SPD they possesses is also pretty irritating and getting debuffs to stick via Discarder or Avaci ETC doesn't seem worth it. The general strategy I fellow is buffing everyone with 12 Generals and Thundercloud Stickleback and than nuking them as hard and fast as I can. The rest is up to luck sadly. Either that or I need to dump more skill points into Marisa/Patchy's magic stat.
Orin
isn't that much of a problem it's the knights before hand and I think I just got unlucky last time I faced her. I'm really just being lazy about it since I don't have a slot for her anyways ATM. Mokou
I can't seem to make any decent headway on because she spams Ikhasa to hell and back for some reason and that just rips my party to shreds in no time flat. Grand Stamp one shots the whole party with it's first turn. I'm thinking you're not supposed to be able to fight him right now.
Current party level is Reimu 64 with an average of roughly 60ish for most of my party and the under used or newer members bringing up the rear at 55-58. Main battle party usually consists of Reimu, Marisa, Patchy, Meiling, Ran, Iku, Yuugi, Nitori, Minoriko, Cirno, Reisan
and the last slot gets swapped around as needed. The members who don't leave my party for any reason are Reimu, Marisa, Patchy, Meiling, Ran, Iku, and Minoriko
everyone else gets swapped around based on situation. I've tried out the others fairly extensively but have opted out of using them for various reasons. Remi and Sukaya for example got benched early on somewhere after floor 9ish I think.
It's not that they're bad characters it's just they ended up not suiting my preferred style of play down the road. I mean everyone has their uses it's just there's a time and place for them.
So I'm mostly looking for advice against Triomagen so I can try my luck against 15F. Having her around would really speed up the grinding on floor 16.
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Hmm, you could try taking advantage of its WND weakness. I don't remember much but I think I used Aya, Yuugi and Nitori as my main damage dealers, Ran as my offensive buffer, Meiling as my tank and Reimu as the defense buffer. After a few buffs from Ran, you can finish with Master Spark. Of course this forces you to leave Marisa at the back til you think it's the right moment. Chen's not bad as well if you can get several attacks in with Flight of Idaten.
Besides, if you've already beaten Orin (who's much harder, imo), Triomagen is cakewalk.
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So. I'm missing like one or two items for the first nine pages and almost all of them for the 10th page. Where am I surposed to go to find the items? I need my last star now. ;_; And I already have Great Question Mask. Thing.
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Mokou
I can't seem to make any decent headway on because she spams Ikhasa to hell and back for some reason and that just rips my party to shreds in no time flat. Grand Stamp one shots the whole party with it's first turn. I'm thinking you're not supposed to be able to fight him right now.
I haven't played this game in quite some while now, but I distinctly remember Mokou only spamming Iwakasa's Moon Curse if you debuff her SPD. And much the same thing goes for Great Stamp; leave its SPD stat alone, and it won't ever use Great Earthquake.
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So. I'm missing like one or two items for the first nine pages and almost all of them for the 10th page. Where am I surposed to go to find the items? I need my last star now. ;_; And I already have Great Question Mask. Thing.
I believe most of the items you're missing for the 10th page are dropped by enemies on the 20th floor. If you don't already have the item, then the drop rate is 5%, otherwise it's 1%. (I think). You can find which enemy drops which item on the wiki.
Off the top of my head I can recall: those ninja things drop flower blade kiku-something, those colorful naked girls drop ribbons (but you should have that already from a box I think), the demons with big circles behind them drop a divine spirit shield or something, the guys that look like Thor drop armads, and the blue robots drop karen device. I think I'm forgeting something, so just check the wiki.
I haven't played this game in quite some while now, but I distinctly remember Mokou only spamming Iwakasa's Moon Curse if you debuff her SPD. And much the same thing goes for Great Stamp; leave its SPD stat alone, and it won't ever use Great Earthquake.
Despite the fact that she spams the Moon Curse, I think the best course of action is still to slow her down, and really, you can probobly keep her paralyzed the whole time with Diamond Blizzard or something. Furthermore, if the Moon Curse is too much for you, then you probobly can't survive what she does when she's low on HP. (At this point she becomes immune to all debuffs, so you can't just nine-ball your way through.
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I haven't played this game in quite some while now, but I distinctly remember Mokou only spamming Iwakasa's Moon Curse if you debuff her SPD. And much the same thing goes for Great Stamp; leave its SPD stat alone, and it won't ever use Great Earthquake.
I checked the wiki you were right. I was wondering why she was doing that the behavior seemed rather odd. So I benched Cirno for that fight and just tore her in half. Then she uses resurrection and half a turn later my whole front line save for Meiling dies. I struggled in vain to put more people on the field but it just wasn't happening xD.
Checked the wiki again agreed with the "kill her ASAP" strategy. So I repeated the fight a good 7-8 times. Marisa fully buffed was only doing 71k to Mokou with Master Spark so I had to soften her up a little bit the few precious moments before the first Volcano. Did like 5500 at one point, first volcano goes off, everyone dies save meiling who swaps Marisa in for Spark, 70,000ish, Meiling follows up with Mountain breaker for another 6k ish annnnnnnnnd Mokou is still alive. Second volcano Meiling gets seriously hurt and Marisa dies. Waste a turn and have meiling throw a heal on herself bam third volcano leaves her with 16hp. Swap Nitori in and she just BARELY gets her turn before Mokou. Megawatt at 35k for the win ^_^
As for Triomagen I finally beat them. Lots of swap shenanigans with Nitori coming in every other swap doing 43k per Linear gun shot and I just got really really lucky with healing prayer not going off. Funny thing Patchy got killed early by a random slash attack so I won the fight without her. As for Flan lets just say I'm not ready for her yet. Her opening attack 1 shots Tenshi "Iron Wall" Hinawa so yeah gonna come back to that one.
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I believe most of the items you're missing for the 10th page are dropped by enemies on the 20th floor. If you don't already have the item, then the drop rate is 5%, otherwise it's 1%. (I think). You can find which enemy drops which item on the wiki.
Off the top of my head I can recall: those ninja things drop flower blade kiku-something, those colorful naked girls drop ribbons (but you should have that already from a box I think), the demons with big circles behind them drop a divine spirit shield or something, the guys that look like Thor drop armads, and the blue robots drop karen device. I think I'm forgeting something, so just check the wiki.
The last unique 20th floor drop is Scourge, dropped by the Diamond Knights.
Both Mokou and Great Stamp can be arguably easier if you debuff their speed, because even though they'll be spamming their strong attacks, you can still outfit your team to take advantage of their single element and increased delay. For example, I fight Great Stamp the same way I fight the Foe line of enemies, except with Nature instead of Fire and no attacks in between.
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Just realized I was missing Keine, so I went to grab her. Not quite sure where I want to put her level-up bonuses into though. Since she's pretty much a buff mule I'm thinking either pure HP for survivability or pure Speed for buffing faster. Thoughts?
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Defense builds are always solid. Speed builds tend to only work if they're pure or else it doesn't reach the best of its potential.
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Speed is fun. My Chen is around 2000 SPD while my slowest is under 400. 200 Skillpoint levels in Chen's speed :3
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Speed is good in the main game, but becomes more and more useless once you reach the last few floors of the game. That's because the formula for how speed is calculated suffers terribly from diminishing returns. At higher levels, differences of thousands of SPD means almost nothing in practice.
I usually go for a defensive build with Keine, with a bit more of an emphasis on DEF over MND due to her taking the front slots more often, and because she can already buff her own DEF anyway (so I get more mileage out of those points).
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It also helps if you equip some speed items on Keine so that she will go first and buff everyone's offensive skills before your nukers/DPS starts attacking. She has average speed so she is going to have some trouble with buffing Flandre, Orin, Sakuya, Aya, and Rinnosuke before they move (the others either buff themeselves or Keine is faster or as fast as them). I am fairly fond of a double linear gun.
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Okies so I'm at Maribel Han version 2. The strategy for the normal Maribel fight won't work... that head she summons (great tertagrammaton) seems to be invulnerable to all of my attacks; besides Mystia's Poison Moth's Dark Dance; and it really doesn't do that much damage. The head goes berserk and wipes my entire party if it's up for a couple turns; but like I said none of my casters or melee can touch it. Anyone out there who could give me some tips on this boss?
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Kaguya can hurt it.
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Kaguya can hurt it.
Eiki can also deal massive damage; she's basically how I dealt with that thing. Technically, Rumia can hurt it too :derp:
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Each round it charges up Rankain, its defense, mind and debuff resistance drops so use the time for that to wail on it. It has notably less health than the other two part, making it very ideal to pull out nukes on it. It has lower wind resistance so use Aya's Peerless Wind God, Suika's Throwing Atlas for good effect but its other resistance is normal so basically anything with high numbers works as well (coughnitoricough)
Alternatively you can use defense ignoring abilities namely Kaguya's Hourai Barrage. Rumia's Dark Side of the Moon's damage is too crappy to be effective in this instant. Okuu's Gigaflare and Eiki's Last Judgment (probably the best of the four) are def ignore as well but those are 21+F characters.
If you cannot be able to defeat it on time, make sure you have a lot of spirit resistance on your current roster.
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Nitori, Flan, Eiki, and other high damaging charactrers are good. Especially if they're fully ATK buffed. <3 Ran.
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Man, I just got to 10-12F and I feel like I climbed a MOUNTAIN.
How many more mountains until I hit 20...? :ohdear: Are these floors good enough to grind for battles against Suwako and Nitori? Or should I postpone until later on? Bear in mind I JUST got to them, so I haven't explored a lot... 9F gave me a headache. :(
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IIRC the floors just keep giving out more exp and skill points the closer you get to 20, so you may just want to continue. I know thats's the case with floors 17-20 anyway; each one is almost twice as good as the previous.
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Ugh I am getting so sick of grinding on 16F. Average party level is 67-72 now and I still can't make any headway against any of my currently available bosses. I'm not sure if it's something I'm doing wrong or if I just need to grind more till I hit 80ish. Really considering using cheat engine to speed up the grinding. It's not something I usually do but in this case I might make an exception.
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Ugh I am getting so sick of grinding on 16F. Average party level is 67-72 now and I still can't make any headway against any of my currently available bosses. I'm not sure if it's something I'm doing wrong or if I just need to grind more till I hit 80ish. Really considering using cheat engine to speed up the grinding. It's not something I usually do but in this case I might make an exception.
You may, in fact, be doing something wrong. I went through the whole game without grinding until the last floor, but even that was minimal. I explored every floor completely, which might mean I was higher level, but I never felt that the game required much grinding.
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Could it be something like, 'the style of play'? Like knowing when to swap who, what to equip to which char, and what kind of specialty your chars are using, *which* chars you're using, etc etc.
I'm trying to not follow the guide but I gave up a couple times, and I've beat a few bosses in a couple lvls below the 'recommended' threshold...
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Could it be something like, 'the style of play'? Like knowing when to swap who, what to equip to which char, and what kind of specialty your chars are using, *which* chars you're using, etc etc.
I'm trying to not follow the guide but I gave up a couple times, and I've beat a few bosses in a couple lvls below the 'recommended' threshold...
For character setups, you can pretty much determine what the specific equips they're best at depending on their stat distribution and skillset. In battle, switching's necessary if you want to get the best damage and survivability out of your characters. This is important if you wanna spam nukes with your glass cannons, such Suwako and Patchouli (not a good idea to bring both in the party), as their best skills leave them with an extremely low guage. Better to swap them and bring in another nuker as swapped in characters have their gague set at 80% or so. There's also party positioning - tanks and sturdier char on the left side (and get attacked more often) and fragile chars on the right side. Imo, it's not good to leave a healer, as long as it's not Reimu (too valuable to swap out most of the time in the main game), on the field for too long.
Also, Suwako and Nitori can be beaten if you've beaten Reisen on Floor 9. They're easier than her, imo. And I think for me at least, floors 10-12 were the nightmare and the rest were breathers, including post game, haha.
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I think I know what it might be. I was looking at my skill point distro and I realized that I haven't done much of anything to elemental resistance in a long time. For a good chunk of my party those skills are still under lvl10.
In retrospect Zil what level did you take the boss of 16F at? It's where I'm stuck currently.
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In retrospect Zil what level did you take the boss of 16F at? It's where I'm stuck currently.
Unfortunately reaching levels of 600+ in the post-game has caused me lose any concept of what levels should be during the main game. So basically, I don't remember what level I was. The 16 floor boss is Yukari right? As I recall, I beat her on my first try with no problems, so again, I don't really remember the strategy I used, since I spent no time on her. My general strategy for bosses was to keep my defence buffed by Reimu, keep my speed buffed by Sakuya, and have Cirno slow and paralyze when possible. My tanks were Remi and Meiling, no Tenshi. No single target healers either. My only offensive buffers were Ran and Kaguya. I also had Alice for debuffs and because she's just a sturdy character. Nukes were Patchy, Nitori, and maybe Suwako or Marisa or someone. I think that was my team. Can't say if this is an ideal build, it's just what used when I went through the game, and like I said, I never had any problems. Only one that ever gave me trouble was Eintei group, but that was a matter of strategy, not levels.
About the skill distribution, I'm not sure if increasing elemental affinity is important at that point, I don't remember, but as a general rule you should be sure you use them to improve the characters strengths rather than trying to compensate for weaknesses (Exept for when boosting affinities. In that case boost weaknesses.) and never put anything on evade obviously. Also, and I don't know if I started doing this there or later, but I found that the best use of equipment was increase status resistences. Making characters like Reimu, Meiling, and Remilia immune to ailments became pretty important as some point.
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Yukari's damn annoying. Strategy-wise, all I can say is that you need a durable party to survive 2 Djinn Storm. IIRC, I used Tenshi the first time to get rid of her buffs as well as having Reisen and/or Komachi for debuffing. Aside from that, the only resistances you need is MYS, WND and SPR for her. I had like 20-30 that time. Dijinn Storm's the only massive threat, imo. Rumia's a decent secondary group healer as well if you've even bothered with her.
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Also note that Yukari has no resistance to debuffs at all, so spamming Discarder or some other similar multi-debuff spell will make the battle a ton easier.
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Well then apparantly I was't exactly using the right strategy, seeing as my only debuffs came from Alice and Cirno. Maybe my maxed out speed buff and Yukari's maxed speed debuff enabled me to recover from djinn storm easily. (On a side note, my love for this game practically tripled when I saw that Golden Sun reference :D) So yeah probobly listen to these other guys since my team maybe was just overleveled somehow. :V Only other advice I can give is that I think she's weak to nature, so Suwako is probobly a good nuke if you aren't already using her.
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About to go through that one 10-12F phase where you have to switch, switch and switch without stopping or saving. Ogod I hate those Tops.
Hopefully once I'm done and ready for the final 12F battle I'll be at decent levels... maybe get Tenshi, too...
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13F is its own barrel of fun :V. Take your time to explore everywhere and get the levels from it.
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13F is its own barrel of fun :V. Take your time to explore everywhere and get the levels from it.
Update: just got Tenshi (and she dropped her armor) and beat the Eientei battle after 5 tries-- first two times everyone got buffed by Stone Bowl and my PAR effects weren't landing, third time I got too hasty and forgot to change the character setup for the first couple turns, fourth time I ate Eirin's ultimate and wiped... hurting Kaguya to force Eirin to use Elixir made it so much easier for me, and the PAR effects landing as often as they could was a big plus as well. I got Reisen's drop out of it.
Now let's see what this 13F+ is all about! SUIKAAAAAAAAAA
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Finally got that twit. Turns out I just wasn't being stubborn enough about it. I keep forgetting that this game has a random tendency to be mean to you and in those cases you just try again. Though I did need the levels I got between my first attempt and the subsequent ones later on. I was under leveled when I first got to her because I spent a fair amount of time running from the enemies on floors 15 and 16. I usually make a rule to do my darnedest to avoid doing that in RPGs but the enemies on those floors were just irritating. 16F particularly between the mandragoras and the gold sorceresses ugh.
I had a lot of bad luck with Flying Insect Nest spam took me what felt like a good 14 tries to finally put her under. Used Reisen and Komachi to keep her debuffed and then used Ran and Iku to buff up my party and then just tore her to shreds best I could. The one thing I hate and love about this game is death since there aren't any revive spells of any sort. So if someone dies due to bad luck or a misplaced switch or something it can really hamper your efforts. Though some of my best battles have come down to the wire with only 2-3 people left and I still win.
Blazed straight through 17F. The random encounters on that floor are not worth it ATM. Exploring 18F and leveling for the awful confrontation up ahead. I haven't even found him yet so there's still time to prepare. I also have a few characters I need to go back and get but I haven't worked out a strategy for that yet. Flandre's damage just seems so freaking random at times. One minute I'm fine the next half the front line is dead. Part of the fun I suppose
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13F is its own barrel of fun :V. Take your time to explore everywhere and get the levels from it.
Jeez, that floor going to make my head hurt.
Finally beat team Eientei myself after getting hit by Eirin's nuke a handful of times. Finally it came to my attention "Oh hey! Her nuke ignores MND!" :colonveeplusalpha:
Now I gotta wait a couple floors for Mokou. :3
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Boss 18 is more of a long fight than a major threat. Easier than Yukari, imo. As long as you're more or less in the recommended levels, you can take it down. The original BGM for that battle is also better than the Plus Disk one, for me at least. I recommend switching to it, haha.
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I know I'm going to be beating a dead horse here but I'm getting so sick of fighting 18F. Reimu 91-92 give or take and I still can't win. The stupid thing is it's not a matter of not being strong enough or bad tactics or my line up it's just bad luck. Luck based fighting in RPGs irks me to no end. I understand the creators wanted to make this fight challenging but when I can't swap in my better damage dealers without them getting raped by Heavenly Demise at RANDOM what's the point? I'm about ready to just cheat engine my party up another 10 levels just to get this over with. I'm going on 30+ attempts here. X_x
You know what would make this fight more bearable? If you could actually debuff/disable the stupid pest to a point. I think that's the glaring flaw with this battle. Debuffing/Disabling is so important to battle strategy in this game that having an enemy be completely immune to it for the ENTIRE battle is frightening. I mean ok fine make him resistant but not immune.
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I know I'm going to be beating a dead horse here but I'm getting so sick of fighting 18F. Reimu 91-92 give or take and I still can't win. The stupid thing is it's not a matter of not being strong enough or bad tactics or my line up it's just bad luck. Luck based fighting in RPGs irks me to no end. I understand the creators wanted to make this fight challenging but when I can't swap in my better damage dealers without them getting raped by Heavenly Demise at RANDOM what's the point? I'm about ready to just cheat engine my party up another 10 levels just to get this over with. I'm going on 30+ attempts here. X_x
You know what would make this fight more bearable? If you could actually debuff/disable the stupid pest to a point. I think that's the glaring flaw with this battle. Debuffing/Disabling is so important to battle strategy in this game that having an enemy be completely immune to it for the ENTIRE battle is frightening. I mean ok fine make him resistant but not immune.
No man, you're doin' it wrong. I beat that boss on my first try too, and if I remember correctly, Start of Heavenly Demise does crap damage if you buff your defense. He's got nothing but raw damage multi-target spells, and none with good piercing. Start of Heavenly Demise is actually one of his weakest spells IIRC. Just use Reimu and Yukari to keep your defense maxed out.
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I built my Tenshi so that she only got damaged by 2-3 of his attacks (one in FIR phase and two near the end).
But maybe you should level up more. I was around the 120's (I think) when I finally beat him.
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No man, you're doin' it wrong. I beat that boss on my first try too, and if I remember correctly, Start of Heavenly Demise does crap damage if you buff your defense. He's got nothing but raw damage multi-target spells, and none with good piercing. Start of Heavenly Demise is actually one of his weakest spells IIRC. Just use Reimu and Yukari to keep your defense maxed out.
I'm sorry I wasn't entirely specific. I am doing that. Reimu, Yukari, Meiling, and Ran are all on buff and support duty the rest of the roster is there to pummel him as fast as possible. It's the stray GSS or other shenanigans taking out my weaker high dmg dealers at the worst times that's the problem. If I lose my glass cannons the fight is more or less over because I can't output enough damage to kill him with so few characters. Even if I can they'll get wiped out by the time I reach final phase thanks to World Shaking Military Rule. Losing Nitori particularly is a huge hit to my damage capability. I've already grinded from Reimu 83 to about Reimu 93 I guess 100 wouldn't hurt but 120? Forget it.
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I dunno, he doesn't do that much damage. Other than Reiastsu Fist, some fire move, and poison, he is fairly harmless. Even if he
uses World Shaking Military Rule, then Start of Heavenly Demise, you should be taking manageable damage to slowly poke him to death.
I did remember something annoying in his Mystic phase, but I don't quite remember what it is.
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Aside from like his first two turns, and if he decides to use world shaking on his first available turn, that fight is like completely no luck based.
As for rebuffing being key, I personally never rely on debuffing 99% of the time (cosmic, bloody papa, yukari are the only exceptions i can think of) because so many hard bosses resist it far too often. You complain you hate luck based RPGs but you are forcing yourself to rely on luck based strategies!? Anyway, his offense is poor after the first phase, if you can't afford to lose any more nukes before the final phase, don't use any. You can probably 3 woman that fight with just Reimu, china, and remi excluding the first and last phases. Just go slow and steady for the rest.
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Manageable damage? How in the heck is 7000 -10,000 dmg party wide manageable? Mind you that's SHD after world shaking military rule once. Even Meiling can't survive that. Either you folk are grossly over leveled or I'm doing something horribly wrong. That or we're talking about different versions of the game here patch wise.
I suppose that last phase is all about the timing and taking him out before he can use anything. Most of my party can handle his damage just fine but characters like Flan, Marisa, and Patchy can't varying. Nitori can take one stray hit if she's lucky varying on element. That's mostly what I mean by luck. The computer decides to use the wrong move at the wrong time and kills someone before I can swap them out. And then there's the random Golden Scarlet Sword to the face. Hate it when he hits the back slots. X_x
I apologize if came off sounding rude or anything I'm just frustrated is all. I do actually appreciate the advice so thank you. Either way I'm not strong enough clearly so it's back to grinding. Just you wait MANnosuke your days are numbered!
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Flan is a terribad character in my opinion, but anyway neither she nor Marisa should be in the field when he uses a powerful attack. Getting OHKO'd is standard fare for those characters, so swap 'em in and swap 'em out. I'd expect Patchy to survive anything that isn't a composite attack though. I know people trash-talk Sakuya, but her speed boost can help characters like Nitori who can only take one hit without dying by speeding up Reimu. Kaguya also helps with her baton pass. Have you considered using some bulkier attackers like Alice, because honestly I can't imagine using Flandre in anything but some kind of challenge run. If Meiling is getting OHKO'd then something is terribly wrong. Even if your whole party is underleveled that shouldn't happen. (You aren't spending points on evade are you?)
Speaking of challenge runs... I'm thinking of doing a second playthrough using only final boss characters. It leaves me with two empty slots, but I think the team is decently balanced. Any comments, glaring weaknesses I'm overlooking, etc.?
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Manageable damage? How in the heck is 7000 -10,000 dmg party wide manageable? Mind you that's SHD after world shaking military rule once. Even Meiling can't survive that. Either you folk are grossly over leveled or I'm doing something horribly wrong. That or we're talking about different versions of the game here patch wise.
I suppose that last phase is all about the timing and taking him out before he can use anything. Most of my party can handle his damage just fine but characters like Flan, Marisa, and Patchy can't varying. Nitori can take one stray hit if she's lucky varying on element. That's mostly what I mean by luck. The computer decides to use the wrong move at the wrong time and kills someone before I can swap them out. And then there's the random Golden Scarlet Sword to the face. Hate it when he hits the back slots. X_x
I apologize if came off sounding rude or anything I'm just frustrated is all. I do actually appreciate the advice so thank you. Either way I'm not strong enough clearly so it's back to grinding. Just you wait MANnosuke your days are numbered!
Both of my runs have had lots of trouble with him, so don't feel too discouraged. I think I was 93 when I took him down this time.
As far as I know, he doesn't pull out World-Shaking Military Rule until he's in his final phase, and that phase is basically just a DPS race by design; with luck, you should only need 2 or 3 good hits to drop him, so it's just a matter of surviving long enough to get them off. Tenshi and Meiling can help in that regard.
Also, I've found that counting damage helps a LOT in that fight. If you know how much damage you've done to him, you can do predictive switching to give yourself an advantage in initiative (by, for example, switching your big nukers in when he's about to pop his final Form Destruction). (For the record, each of his elemental forms has around 200-240k HP, as I recall)
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Manageable damage? How in the heck is 7000 -10,000 dmg party wide manageable? Mind you that's SHD after world shaking military rule once. Even Meiling can't survive that. Either you folk are grossly over leveled or I'm doing something horribly wrong. That or we're talking about different versions of the game here patch wise.
I guess this is a difference in builds and over 90+ levels it adds up? Generally speaking, I only put points in Mind or Defense, except for
characters that are clearly offensively based.
Even after World Shaking Military Rule, Start of Heavenly Demise does 0 or close to 0 damage against Patchouli, if she has 80%-100% defense
buff and you have been leveling solely on mind. At least that is what I remembered.
Are you using items that buff defense or mind? He rarely uses status attacks, so you should be using items that purely give stats.
Did you put points in Mind or Defense on your defensive characters? I can't really see him doing that kind of damage, and I have never
seen that kind of damage from him, except Reiastsu Fist, I was afraid of that, and that fire sword move or whatever it is called.
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Yep... just got to 15F, grinded a bit, and beat Yuyuko. She wasn't as bad as I expected, though I WAS unprepared and got pummeled during my first two tries. But after I learned about her SPI-based weapons, I brought the right gear for the battle and did good enough to get her to join.
Though I swear, the party on 65-70 is NOT where I want to be right now, especially when my strongest attacks CAN'T CLEAR TRASH. @_@ Time to sit back, bring out the chips and grind.
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I think the average level you need to fight him is around 110-ish for the fast levelers like Reimu and 90+ for Yukari's good enough. Also, you don't need to skim through all forms. Second time I fought him (I purposely died the first time just to have a taste of what he can do and cause I forgot to switch the bgm), which I fought him properly, he only used like 4 forms before he went down. Flan's not that terribad at all as Starbow Break isn't too shabby and is generally one of the stronger moves. Against his NTR form though, Aya's a godsent. Pumping Resistances also helps.
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I had a huge strategy guide for the 18F boss that I spent 40 minutes typing up...and then I misclicked and lost it. >_<
So let me just try to say this quickly: protecting against status effects is actually quite important in this fight. 3 of his 4 unique spells in the Wind form cause paralysis, half of his unique spells in both Wind and Mystic form will debuff the whole party, both Cold and Spirit form get multi-target silence effects, etc. I daresay that guarding against Silence and Paralysis is more important than equipping gear to boost other stats, since those effects are effectively a OHKO. Paradoxically, instant death isn't as important to protect against, since he's only got one spell in his Spirit form to cause it, with only a 5% chance of using it each turn, and it has a relatively low proc rate for instant death on top of that. Poison is also probably not worth guarding against, since only one form uses it, and you can probably kill it before that form kills you. As for debuffs, well...you can try guarding against it, or you can just use characters like Iku and Reimu to buff your party again.
To reiterate, guarding against Paralysis and Silence is important for this fight. Characters with Nature attacks (Youmu, Kaguya, Suwako, etc.) should focus on protecting against PAR, while those with Fire or Mystic attacks should focus on SIL (although the Spirit form can be ripped apart by a fully buffed Master Spark, if you have it).
For the final form, note that it has relatively low HP, but increased resistance to all elements. That makes non-elemental attacks the most effective here. Slash of Eternity, Megawatt Linear Gun, and Starbow Break can all expect to take out at least a quarter of the form's HP even if unbuffed. Silence Selene, Flight of Idaten, Soaring En no Ozuno, Spear the Gungnir, etc., can also put up good results. Even Sakuya's Killing Doll does 50k damage on this form (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9iKFNJYP_Q&t=7m40s) when backed by Thundercloud Stickleback. I usually don't have much difficulty with the boss's final form, because I tend to keep my party alive and fully buffed due to being extra-cautious with my setup and strategy with the other forms. Sure, I might lose characters on his final form, but I just keep throwing the strongest attacks I've got and win quickly anyway. The form only has 200k HP, and my buffed non-elemental attacks do 60k-90k damage each even at Reimu level 90, so if the boss tries to go for World-Shaking Military Rule followed by Start of Heavenly Demise, he usually lasts only 1 turn in this form anyway. Unbuffed SoHD isn't strong enough to cause a party wipe since it's composite damage.
So bottom line: for an easier time with the final form, keep your non-elemental attackers alive and buffed through the other forms.
I personally don't think you need to be that high leveled to take down the boss. I usually fight him with most of my party in the 80's.
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"If Meiling is getting OHKO'd then something is terribly wrong. Even if your whole party is underleveled that shouldn't happen. (You aren't spending points on evade are you?)"
I never said she was I was merely commenting that "even Meiling can't survive that" Varying on what happens she's long dead by the time I get to his final phase anyway given that she's a first slot tank and her job is to DIE for other weaker party members xD. And no I'm not spending points on herp derp EVA though I will admit when I first started the game 50-60ish hours ago I did throw a few SKP into EVA on some characters lololol.
I wouldn't call Flan terribad I mean sturdy she is not but she's not supposed to be. Star Break Bow is a swap move and given her high spd (more so with Longsword "Ringil" equipped) she can get in and out easily. There are better characters to fill her slot I suppose but I personally like her. That and shes the best trash sweeper in the main game aside from Kaguya and Patchy.
Builds I mostly threw points into the characters strong point. Patchy had most of hers thrown into MAG but I did put a few into MND here and there. In her case it doesn't really matter since those stats are practically dead even anyways. There are only 3 characters I built composite-ish in terms of stats and those would be Cirno, Reimu, and Wriggle. More so because their stat growths are all so even.
Equipment I generally follow the "cover weaknesses and enhance strengths" rule. So the tanks get staii resist and stuff to make them tankier, the mages get MAG increasing items, ETC.
Trickster - enemy HP takes a steep curve up on floors 15-16. You're gonna find stuff that can survive up to 2 Royal Flares from Patchy easy. As usual PAR and disable are your friend just take it slow and steady. BTW make sure you whack Evil Forge in the upper left corner of floor 14 or you're not going anywhere on floor 15. Triomagen in the mid right can be ignored for now.
Para - His Wind/Lightning form annoys me. Even with 30 PAR resist Meiling gets PAR from time to time if I'm really unlucky. And all it takes is for 2 characters to get locked up and then my party starts to crumble as I scramble to move people around. So in that regard I agree that Staii resist is fairly important for this battle. Like I said in a previous post it's all about dropping him BEFORE he can cast World Shaking Military Rule. It's just by then I've lost a fair amount of my party and I usually can't put out enough damage in time. Factor in delay and MANnosuke's insane spd and it just gets ugly. Gonna grind the party to about Reimu 95-97ish and try again. I'm hoping it'll be enough.
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Your main tank is supposed to be the last one standing and then deals the final blow to the boss for a tight win. Meiling or Tenshi, whoever you keep in slot 1, is supposed to have defenses good enough to take 0s.Rule of thumb for the game is defense builds make the bosses easier and attack builds make trash clearing easier.
The most use you can get out of Cirno is to build her for speed. You'd only ever use her attacks for their effects and never their damage. Wriggle can be a fairly decent tank if built for it. She also doesn't need any investment into her attacks since the poison will do more than what she can hit for.
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Are you using Suwako? Suwako's "Croaking Frog" is the best NTR nuke in the game. If you're having trouble in the WND phase just switch her in for a couple of hits.
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@Parallaxal:
Hmmm, I guess I already have those resists or something then, I didn't remember those things being too dangerous.
@Brocknoth:
Yeah, you have an aggressive build, so it is probably harder for you. For my Patchouli for instance, I leveled only mind, when I got
to the boss. I do this for all my characters, except for dedicated attackers, like Flandre, pure attack. Ran, Yukari, all mind.
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I never said she was I was merely commenting that "even Meiling can't survive that" Varying on what happens she's long dead by the time I get to his final phase anyway given that she's a first slot tank and her job is to DIE for other weaker party members xD.
Yeah that shouldn't happen either. I can't even remember losing a battle where Meiling wasn't the last one left standing before the gameover. It really seems wierd to me that you'd be taking so much damage from this guy, especially since I remember taking 0's even after World Shaking Military Rule. And I guess I was wrong about him having only raw damage, as Parallaxal pointed out. I generally kept everyone as immune as possible at that point, so I guess I didn't notice his status attacks.
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All this talk about MANnosuke is giving me nerves... :ohdear:
Just beat Triomagen and Mokou, though! Feels good. :V
Now to keep grinding in 15F to prepare for Orin's battle...
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For those worried about World-Shaking Military Rule, Tenshi's Sword of Rapture works nicely against it. I used it on Yukari, RInnosuke and Final Boss.
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Yeah seems like I have a gross difference in builds from a lot of you folk. That's just the part of the beauty for this game if you ask me. What are you guys using for equipment on particular characters? Maybe we should compare notes and see if that's part of my problem. In other news I finally beat Great Stamp and got those sweet items hiding in the corners of 16F. That was worth it.
@PaWo - Cirno and Wriggle only get used in applicable boss fights where their skills will be helpful. Neither of them are in this battle since MANnosuke is immune to debuffs and staii and Cirno's damage isn't going to do much to him save for in fire form. Tenshi is an excellent tank but I'm having trouble getting her through his first form given that compared to Meiling she has far less HP and one Rasetsu fist is enough to cripple or outright kill her. Her utility outside of being a tank and throwing out Sword of Rapture from time to time is fairly limited so I don't use her that often.
@J.O.B - I have used Suwako for other battles but she's not a part of my main party given that I've had terrible luck with her dying even in slot 4. Didn't think to bring her for this one I'll try that thanks for the suggestion.
@Trickster - Congrats. Now you can try your luck against Flan on the far side of 15F. That and there's a shortcut portal right next to her. Even if you're not ready to fight her go open that portal it'll make it so you don't have to go around EVERY time you want to make an attempt against Hill Gigas to get to the stairs to 16F.
@Kei - That's a very good point. I didn't think of that.
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Brocky, thanks for the encouragement. :) Just beat Orin on the second try, so only thing left to do is to go up. I'm still mapping 15F taking my time to grind until my party can clear trash in one turn (Rumia, Nitori, Alice, and Marisa usually).
For gear, I've gotten some rare drops like the Dairokutenmaou Armor (Tenshi), the Getitup V's (Reisen and Eientei) and the Lion King's Soul (Yuugi), which have helped tremendously on my tanks and my nukers. I'll comment further on more gear once I'm 'on par' with you on the upper floors... if I make it that far. :ohdear:
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Just beat Triomagen and Mokou, though! Feels good. :V
Now to keep grinding in 15F to prepare for Orin's battle...
Wait a sec... You beat Mokou before Orin?
...I think I got some serious level grinding to do... I beat Triomagen easy enough, but Mokou keeps killing me with that debuff move of hers, and Orin's Knights keep knocking out my key characters before I fight Orin herself.
I have Reimu at LV 65, isn't that enough? :(
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Wait a sec... You beat Mokou before Orin?
...I think I got some serious level grinding to do... I beat Triomagen easy enough, but Mokou keeps killing me with that debuff move of hers, and Orin's Knights keep knocking out my key characters before I fight Orin herself.
I have Reimu at LV 65, isn't that enough? :(
Word of note on Mokou, DO NOT debuff her speed or she'll spam Curse like there's no tomorrow. You might want to hold off on Orin for a little bit. I'd say try again around Reimu lvl 70-ish
@Trickster - NP, no worries you'll get there. Keep in mind I got 60 hours dumped into this game and it's easily going to be more than that by the time I finish with + disc content. Also if it's any consolation you've taken on a few bosses that I had to come back to a good 10 levels later. More so because I was being lazy about it. xD
That's an interesting battle line up you got there. Might I ask who you have tanking for PHY damage since that group is more geared for MND related attacks.
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Wait a sec... You beat Mokou before Orin?
...I think I got some serious level grinding to do... I beat Triomagen easy enough, but Mokou keeps killing me with that debuff move of hers, and Orin's Knights keep knocking out my key characters before I fight Orin herself.
I have Reimu at LV 65, isn't that enough? :(
Here's a couple screencaps of my current party levels (take 2-4 off everyone from all the xp grinding for Orin's battle):
http://sadpanda.us/images/742452-N75UTD4.png
http://sadpanda.us/images/742454-6HA5T1Q.png
http://sadpanda.us/images/742457-HZTMRL9.png
http://sadpanda.us/images/742463-QYAN95U.png
What I did for Orin was go all out on the Knights, then switch over to the 'tank' party before the very last Knight was done and over with. Use Ran and Reimu to buff up everybody (to the point where Cat's Walk was doing double-low triple digits), switch in Suwako/Komachi for PAR, switch in the nukers, let loose. Repeat. Remilia with Curse was my main tank, backed up by Meiling on the second slot, then Reimu and Ran on third and fourth. I only swapped Remi and China when I was SURE I could swap them back in after the nukes went off. First try, I was playing cautiously around the Knights and I took a couple KOs that ended up costing me in the end, so I decided to go all out from the start (ironically, just like Orin says :3 ), and that worked well for me in the end. Hope it works for others, too! Let me know if you wanna see gear and stats too.
EDIT: One more thing about Mokou... once you push her into using Resurrection, her HP drops to like 80k or something. LET LOOSE and beat her right there and then, or Fujiyama Volcano will give you a headache... I was like: '80k?! NITORI! MARISA! SUIKA! BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED, I-- *censored for copyright*'
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Here's a couple screencaps of my current party levels
Where did you get those pictures for Patchy and Nitori :o, they look really cute...
I'm still mapping 15F taking my time to grind until my party can clear trash in one turn (Rumia, Nitori, Alice, and Marisa usually).
I highly recommend using someone who can multi-target paralyze, because killing all of the enemies in one turn just becomes unrealistic on the higher floors. Certainly don't hold yourself back from advancing just because you can't one-turn clear the encounters.
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I admit I found Mokou easier than Orin as well. I had to make Patchy my sacrificial lamb vs those knights, lol.
One question about a certain mook on level 30. Do I need to let it use its Final Form to get the Awakened Exoskeleton or can I get it if I kill it before it gets to that phase? Been fighting it for a while and it doesn't drop the item. Of course... I always rush kill it.
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Only the final phase has the drop. Applies to everyone.
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Thanks for the advice everyone! I feel like a moron for a moment there... :derp:
I shall take it all to heart and wipe the floor with those fire users.
now, where did I put that fire resist item...
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One question about a certain mook on level 30. Do I need to let it use its Final Form to get the Awakened Exoskeleton or can I get it if I kill it before it gets to that phase? Been fighting it for a while and it doesn't drop the item. Of course... I always rush kill it.
I was under the impression that this "mook" could not be killed before it reached the final phase. At least, I never managed to do it. Though Awakened Exoskeleton is the one item I never got on that floor. Maybe I rushed it without realizing? :derp:
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GYAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I beat him!! I finally friggin' beat him!! Reimu 100 was the magic number. :D
Onward then to floor 19/20 awesomeness and other things await!
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@Trickster - NP, no worries you'll get there. Keep in mind I got 60 hours dumped into this game and it's easily going to be more than that by the time I finish with + disc content. Also if it's any consolation you've taken on a few bosses that I had to come back to a good 10 levels later. More so because I was being lazy about it. xD
That's an interesting battle line up you got there. Might I ask who you have tanking for PHY damage since that group is more geared for MND related attacks.
Thanks a bunch. :) I just got lucky with drops, is all.
I capitalized on everyone's strengths more than anything else instead of making up for weaknesses, and while lvling, used up the stat points in the things they did most (SP for Ran and Reisen, HP for Meiling and Tenshi, Magic for Reimu and Alice, etc.), and used skill points for everything else. The lineup in particular for 15F is there because I wipe trash before anybody takes a turn. Rumia is there for those dudes that take 0 from most of my attacks-- the ones that look like a upward spear (Helmels or something other), and those crystal slug dudes.
Just beat Hill Gigas, changed my lineup since now Marisa and Alice are enough to clear most trash now with Nitori and Reimu on cleanup duty. Now with that being said, I'm not taking on Great Stamp or Flandre until I grind a couple more levels. Onward to 16F! :3
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I was under the impression that this "mook" could not be killed before it reached the final phase. At least, I never managed to do it. Though Awakened Exoskeleton is the one item I never got on that floor. Maybe I rushed it without realizing? :derp:
I often kill said mook after its 2nd, 3rd or 4th forms. I did test out earlier that if you deal enough damage to it (and keep passing/focusing turns), it'll eventually reach its Final Form without bothering to attack, and immediately moves to its next form, everytime it changes forms. I didn't get the item (yet) though.
Only the final phase has the drop. Applies to everyone.
But the Bestiary also says that the Final Form gives the EXP and SXP (the rest is 0) and gives it despite not reaching the Final Form. Or does this only apply to items?
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Went back to face Mokou without debuffing her. Beat her on my first try! Thanks for the help again! ;)
...But things got screwy on me on the 15th floor. :( First my entire lineup got wiped by three Tengu who thought it was funny to gang up on my poor tank. After that Game Over, everyone somehow got PAR and slowly died off without a say in the matter. This floor is mean!!!
I decided on just using Komachi and Yuyuko DTH moves to kill everything. :V
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Thanks a bunch. :) I just got lucky with drops, is all.
I capitalized on everyone's strengths more than anything else instead of making up for weaknesses, and while lvling, used up the stat points in the things they did most (SP for Ran and Reisen, HP for Meiling and Tenshi, Magic for Reimu and Alice, etc.), and used skill points for everything else. The lineup in particular for 15F is there because I wipe trash before anybody takes a turn. Rumia is there for those dudes that take 0 from most of my attacks-- the ones that look like a upward spear (Helmels or something other), and those crystal slug dudes.
Just beat Hill Gigas, changed my lineup since now Marisa and Alice are enough to clear most trash now with Nitori and Reimu on cleanup duty. Now with that being said, I'm not taking on Great Stamp or Flandre until I grind a couple more levels. Onward to 16F! :3
Great Stamp is a bit of a pain I wouldn't worry about him for now since all you'll get from him are items but you have to explore 16F to find the sigils anyways. When you do fight him much like Mokou try not to debuff his spd else he'll spam Great Earthquake every turn till either one of you dies. Given it's multipliers it'll be you long before it's him unless you're REALLY packing it on with the NTR resistance.
Ah yes the Helbelmars and their brothers from F16. Those things are annoying because their MND/DEF are ridiculously high and only the most potent spells/skills will punch through them. That or you can use stuff that ignores defense like Silent Silene or Megawatt Linear Gun. Protip, they have next to nothing for DTH resist so 9/10 Yuyuko can take em out in one shot.
16F is fairly dangerous but as long as you abuse PAR you should be ok. Though there is one enemy I suggest you fight sparingly and that's the Gold Sorceresses. If you see them I suggest you run from them for now. Ether Flare and God Press can rip apart your party if you're not careful. If PAR doesn't stick to them GTFO of there. Take your time and explore 16F as much as possible. You'll need the levels for your next boss fight.
@Zap - You're welcome. I made a similar mistake when I first fought her. The minute I knocked off the debuff shenanigans she went down pretty hard, well until she used Resurrection and started throwing Volcanoes in my face. xD Had to retry the fight a few times till I finally got her. Yeah 15F sucks. I didn't like the floor much either. Bit more manageable once the short cut warp is open but you need to beat Triomagen on 14F to reach it.
In other news grinding for levels on floor 20 is INSANE. 30-50k per fight is too awesome for words. Of course the enemies can rip me in two IF they get a turn which they don't thanks to Spiriting Away shenanigans. Gonna get to Reimu 120ish and tear apart the sigil guardians on 19F. Cosmic obliterated me so now I want to return the favor.
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Went back to face Mokou without debuffing her. Beat her on my first try! Thanks for the help again! ;)
...But things got screwy on me on the 15th floor. :( First my entire lineup got wiped by three Tengu who thought it was funny to gang up on my poor tank. After that Game Over, everyone somehow got PAR and slowly died off without a say in the matter. This floor is mean!!!
I decided on just using Komachi and Yuyuko DTH moves to kill everything. :V
16F will love you sideways. :( Not every floor scales the same though, and it's obvious in 16F that my preparation from the previous floor helped *tremendously*. [Extending Arm + Asteroid Belt + Evil-Sealing Circle + Little Legion] is enough to wipe everything-- even Gold Sorceresses! :o Whatever is left alive is left PAR'd, so I can even Focus in between attacks and deliver the finishing blow whenever. It's pretty easy to navigate the floor, but it's TEDIOUS! >< So many dead ends... Nitori outfitted with [Lion King's Soul x2 + Glaive of Pain] delivers tremendously. :V
When everyone's 80, time for Great Stamp. :ohdear: Only one more switch and half the map left to explore~
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Lion Kings on Nitori? I'm sure you're supposed to have better attack gear on her at that level than stuff meant for tanks.
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How is Lion King's Soul not attack gear? It gives +40% to both ATK and SPD, and the SPD is very relevant on Nitori if you're trying to sweep floor trash. It increases MND instead of DEF as well, which makes it not very good for 1st slot tanks, since the majority of attacks they'll be hit by are DEF-based. Boosting MND is more relevant on backrow characters, though, since they are much more likely to get hit by magic attacks.
Personally, I thought that Great Stamp was easier when his SPD is debuffed, even though it will spam Great Earthquake if you do so. But its SPD is already so low, and so long as you can survive the Earthquake (maybe switch in empty slots), he's quite easy to manage. This is especially useful to do if you're using Tenshi as your main tank, because it'll stop using Rasetsu Fist.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20EFfMD6Gww
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I just remembered there being other items that grant more ATK than Lion King.
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On floor 16, not really. The only ones that give more than +40% ATK are Glaive of Pain and Shiva's Leather Boots. You should only have one of the former (the second is in a chest on 19F), while the latter is found on 16F to begin with (and I think you might need to beat Great Stamp to access it first).
(I also just realized that we're both using art from Magic: the Gathering as our avatars.)
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Lion King's good enough for ATK plus the added survivability. Although faming a bunch of Blue Sabers on floor 13-14 (Amethyst Knight) or 15-16 (Obsidian Knight) is also a good idea.
I play MTG too.
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I always thought Lion's King Soul was a good choice for Suika. Raises every stat that she uses, so it just seems natural to me.
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I've decided to start playing this game again, this time working on two vastly different parties. One party is built to maximize attack buffs combined with Yukari's Spiriting Away for massive damage output in a short amount of time. It's the typical party that I normally like to use, except optimized as much as I can for bursts of damage with the best high power high delay attacks backed by Thundercloud Stickleback. It'll involve significant switching hijinx, of course, since I can't rely on Spiriting Away forever.
The other is pretty much the exact opposite, using almost every good self-buffer along with many other solid characters that can stay in for long periods of time to do DoT. I wanted to try it out in order to ween myself off of my favorite character in the game (Iku), and it'll also offer a chance to shine for one of my other favorites (Reisen). Plus I get to use a lot of good characters that I normally never use due to my play style, like Patchouli and Aya.
I want to take them both up through the Plus Disk eventually, and see how each party's strengths and weaknesses work in various circumstances. This will be slow, though, since I have started medical school this past year, so I don't have as much time to play as I did back in college.
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Wiped the floor with the 19F sigil guardians though that was to be expected after all the grinding I did on 20F. They barely got 2 turns each thanks to Military Rule and Spiriting Away shenanigans. Fully explored what little of 20F I can reach for now and activated the waypoint. Got all the unique drops for the floor as well save for Kikuryusei. The Executioners are being selfish and won't drop one. Now I just have to decide when I'm ready to try taking on Mari. 150 sounds a bit much though I won't know till I try.
Any advice guys?
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Yeah, 150 is pretty overkill. I usually fight the final boss around Reimu level 120.
The boss starts off very slowly, so you can take your time buffing up at first. Just like with Alice, the physical-based summon is vulnerable to paralysis, and the magical-based summon is vulnerable to debuffs. When all three summons are out, do not leave the top (support) summon for last. Not only is it not vulnerable to either PAR or debuffs, but it will use Djinn Storm if the other two summons are defeated first. The physical summon can OHKO your tank with Scourge if you kill the other two summons first, but since you can PAR-lock the physical summon, you can usually buy yourself enough time to kill it even if you save it for last.
Once the summons are defeated, the final boss is pretty much just like the 18F boss's final form, except with way more HP. Good luck not dying.
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Dear freaking lord wiping out all her servants is a really BAD idea. Unnatural Overflowing Power is frightening O_o There's gotta be a better way to do this.
That aside the fight isn't as bad as I thought it would be. Couple annoying skills here and there but all it takes is some planning and she's plenty manageable at level 120 like you said. But yeah top servant dies first, then I'll usually take out the physical one since I have a MND based party so magic spammer isn't as annoying as it could be. Thus far one of two things happen I get impatient and try my hand at UOP phase and die or I get outlasted and die anyways.
Wiki says she has 2mil HP but I dmg counted and swear I did more than that. Oh well gotta keep trying I suppose. I'll get her eventually. BTW who is this girl supposed to be anyways? Her attack skills and overall design have an uncanny resemblance to a certain Yukari Yakumo.
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She is Maribel Han. She is in the music CDs, Ghostly Field Club (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ghostly_Field_Club/Story) and stuff following it.
Because of her name, she is often believed to be Yukari's other self of some sort. Her friend is Renko Usami, the other girl that you see
for a little bit while playing the game.
Briefly saying this, the idea is Lafcadio Hearn is also known as Koizumi Yakumo, and since Maribel Hearn and Yukari Yakumo have names
relating to that, so popular theory is that they are the same person.
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She is Maribel Han. She is in the music CDs, Ghostly Field Club (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ghostly_Field_Club/Story) and stuff following it.
Because of her name, she is often believed to be Yukari's other self of some sort. Her friend is Renko Usami, the other girl that you see
for a little bit while playing the game.
Briefly saying this, the idea is Lafcadio Hearn is also known as Koizumi Yakumo, and since Maribel Hearn and Yukari Yakumo have names
relating to that, so popular theory is that they are the same person.
The same person? That's an odd theory. Then again we don't know much about Yukari to begin with so I suppose it's plausible once you go over all the facts. For it to make sense though Yukari would have to be from the future or an alternate universe. I take it Mari's last name being spelt "Han" was a mistake in Labyrinth?
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I don't think that is a mistake. Translations of words can be argued, so while you can theoretically argue that it is the correct spelling with
those hints. But the translation is still technically correct.
ハーン translates to Haan. So some translators change it to Han and others change it to Hearn.
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Han and Hearn are both correct. About the relationship thing with Yukari, there are like tons of theories about it. Like this one. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5755.0.html) (Warning: TL; DR)
Also, you do need to get rid of all 3 summons else she'll regen like crazy (tried leaving one summon during my first fight and I couldn't take her down even with all my nukes). Tenshi spamming Sword of Rapture should do the trick. Especially with Sarutahiko's Guidance or two on her.
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Han and Hearn are both correct. About the relationship thing with Yukari, there are like tons of theories about it. Like this one. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5755.0.html) (Warning: TL; DR)
Also, you do need to get rid of all 3 summons else she'll regen like crazy (tried leaving one summon during my first fight and I couldn't take her down even with all my nukes). Tenshi spamming Sword of Rapture should do the trick. Especially with Sarutahiko's Guidance or two on her.
I guess the wiki needs an update then because it doesn't say anything about her regening HP. I thought there was something wrong when I couldn't bring her down even though I swear I had done the needed damage. Well I guess that means I'll have to change my battle strategy.
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I guess the wiki needs an update then because it doesn't say anything about her regening HP. I thought there was something wrong when I couldn't bring her down even though I swear I had done the needed damage. Well I guess that means I'll have to change my battle strategy.
From Wiki:
Once all three minions are summoned, Maribel and her minions will now all be killable, and the fight proper begins. However, note that Mari will regenerate HP while she still has minions, and while it's technically possible to outdamage her regeneration to kill her before the minions, it is pretty impractical (if not outright impossible).
Thought it was a bluff at first, then I had to find out the hard way.
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Doing lots of damage to her before killing the last summon is a very viable strategy, however, since she only regenerates HP up to a certain point:
Up to the third form, if at the start of the turn, Mari's HP is below (500,000 * number of enemies),
Mari's HP will be recovered back to (500,000 * number of enemies).
Since she starts out with 3,500,000 HP, you can shorten the amount of time you have to spend with the last phase quite a bit this way.
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I would upload that database myself but it'd kill my connection.
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On floor 3 with the second team I described earlier. Fought the Disgusting Malice on my way. Otherwise, nothing of note (besides the fact that bosses refuse to drop anything for me).
Rumia was kind of a pain, though. She used Demarcation 3 times in 4 turns, which was an absolutely nightmare to deal with.
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From Wiki:
Thought it was a bluff at first, then I had to find out the hard way.
It is in there? Man I just wasn't reading then was I. Great now I feel stupid.
500k * numbers of enemies so if only 1 servant is left she'll constantly stay at 500k but only if she gets a turn hmmm very interesting. Ideal way to do this then would be to drag whatever servant is left down to the 1 hit kill range, hit her once, then kill the servant, and then use spiriting away to finish her off.
Unless of course I'm wrong and it's at the start of EVERY turn and not just hers.
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I guess the wiki needs an update then because it doesn't say anything about her regening HP. I thought there was something wrong when I couldn't bring her down even though I swear I had done the needed damage. Well I guess that means I'll have to change my battle strategy.
There are two wikis. The good one says what Sukusuku Keine quoted. The other neglects the part about her regenerating, and actually advises you to leave a minion alive. The wiki with Alice in the upper left generally has much better info.
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Ok so I'm not losing my mind. I've been using this one http://en.touhouwiki which is the 2nd of the two you mentioned. The problem is the information in both is nearly identical for the LoT section. Why such crucial information would be missing from the other one is beyond me. Thanks for the heads up gonna use the other one from now on.
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The Wikia wiki is an outdated wasteland in all aspects; don't touch it. It's outdated because it's a dead wiki and should be left dead.
Use touhouwiki.net
This is the correct page in question: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Dungeons/20F
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Comparing information yeah the other one is horribly outdated. Bah and I've been using that one for reference too. Oh well bookmarks updated thank you for pointing out my mistake.
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Pretty much all of the editors have migrated over from one wiki to the other, so only one is being constantly updated. The better wiki has stuff like spellcard descriptions and video walkthroughs, and even now is still being updated (I just added strategy advice to several boss fights yesterday).
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Hmm. I haven't checked the wikia guide at all. No wonder.
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What happened to the JP wiki?
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Nothing happened to the JP wiki afaik. It's a great map resource.
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It doesn't load for me normally or with Google translate.
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Site working fine on my end.
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:colbert:
EDIT: And as you say that, it finally starts working without google translate.
But it still doesn't work with google translate.
EDITEDIT: I think the problem is because it's using the meta code "notranslate". Is anyone else getting this problem?
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Just beat Great Stamp and Yukari~ JUST as she had cast IN Quadruple Barrier, Nitori had a turn right after her, so I thought, 'okay let's use her once and swap out to prepare for Mesh' and ONE SHOT WAS ENOUGH. lol
GRAN GRIMOIRE DROP FIRST TRY **** YEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHH
I told you I got lucky with drops. :V
Still can't touch Flandre, though, unsurprisingly. :ohdear: Oh well. Time for 17F! Used Parallaxal's guide to skip 17F and go straight to 18F. Oh, what a nightmare. You know it's bad when you have to treat every random encounter as a boss fight with swapping and debuffing-- I just force-plowed through everything up to this point, lol. Time to STRATEGIZE.
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It's still possible to power plow grind w/o switching or debuffing at Floor 18. Though the chars I use and setup is prolly different. Floor 18's a great leveling spot though. Ignore 17, it's not worth it.
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Is it really that hard to beat Maribel while leaving a minion alive? Because I did exactly that without any difficulty, and I'm pretty sure I never dealt 500,000 damage between any of her turns. And in case it matters, yes, that's on the Special Disk version.
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I sat there for an hour and a half trying to kill her with a minion alive and she just wouldn't go down. Admittedly I had a very defensive team going, but she defintely regenerates some hp. I can't even begin to recall how much damage I was doing back then, or if I ever tried unleashing all my cannons at once though. Maybe it's possible for a glitch to occur where she doesn't heal herself? It wouldn't be the first funky thing to happen in this game.
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While setting up my party built around Yukari's Spiriting Away, I realized that there are very few good options for MND-targeting nukers, as opposed to DEF-targeting. I have Yuugi, Nitori, and Youmu for hitting DEF, and considered Suwako as another good option. However, when trying to find good MND nukers, I realized most weren't synergistic with either Spiriting Away or a simple nuke-and-switch strategy, or had some other annoying shortcoming.
Marisa - Master Spark is not friends with Spiriting Away.
Patchouli - Too slow to be switched out efficiently after each nuke.
Alice - Better at targeting DEF. More of a DPSer than a nuker.
Reisen - Also more of a DPSer (and a fine one at that).
Ran - Ditto, due to Soaring En no Ozuno.
Yuyuko - Only one element, and not a terribly good one considering how many bosses resist it.
Utsuho - Kind of mediocre even after buffing her MAG. Her spell formulas are worse than you'd think.
Maribel - Not particularly synergistic with Iku buffing everyone.
Yuuka - See Marisa.
In the end, I went with Kanako mostly for her elemental coverage and lack of glaring weaknesses. Mokou was also in the consideration, but her damage output isn't quite up to par with what I want.
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Yeah, the best single-target attackers are mostly physical attackers. Makes the physical-'immune' Hibachi really annoying.
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Remind me again: what was the recommended level for the Version 2 bosses? Because I'm suspecting that I'm grossly underleveled, given that Flandre V2 just OHKO'd a full MND build Iku with Ether Flare.
Although I have been able to easily kill half the V2 bosses so far just by using Rinnosuke, Yukari, Youmu, and Nitori to Spiriting Away hax them to death before they get their 2nd or 3rd turn.
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Doesn't Ether Flare ignore your mind? I always thought it did, if not completely, then to a pretty good extent. I seem to recall Patchy getting done in by that spell a little too often. As far as recommended level goes, idk, I just remember fighting them right after Maribel, though Flan was one of the last ones I did.
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Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/?w5jig4q58hlmy3z)
Has a little more technical detail than what's on the wiki. Most importantly though, notes on the boss attack patterns.
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Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/?w5jig4q58hlmy3z)
Has a little more technical detail than what's on the wiki. Most importantly though, notes on the boss attack patterns.
Thanks a bunch for sharing this! :)
Just beat Kaguya's Foe and Flandre. Foe was nothing but DAYUM Flan was hard... >< Now there's really nothing else to do but to go up! :derp: Wanna grind to at least ~100 across the board by exploring 17F (gimme those Stars of Elendil) and 18F (feels like boss fights everywhere)... not taking any chances against MANnosuke! Wish me luck! :3
But then again, I got wiped because I got greedy and Laevateinn wasn't enough to finish the job, and then-- then-- ogod the pain :ohdear:
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Farming Stars is not really a good idea. It'll prolly take hours over hours to get just one unless you're extremely lucky.
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Farming Stars is not really a good idea. It'll prolly take hours over hours to get just one unless you're extremely lucky.
Yeah, it's like, I said I'd do it, but I changed my mind already. :V
So... just now, I got to the 18F relay point, and after saving I thought, 'ok let's try out the battle first and see where we're at', right? So I go ahead, I start (badass OST is badass), and then I get Iai Slash, and Star of Heavenly Demise 3 times in a row. I healed, then I got hit, then I healed, I buffed, then I got hit, and I lost horribly! >< I mean, WHAT ARE THE ODDS? He's supposed to do it like, less than 20% of the time or something in his normal form? MADNESS! ???
Anyway, that left a bad taste in my mouth. I need to grind more-- and at least finish mapping the floor... BUT I'M GETTING THERE. :derp:
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Hmm, probably just got unlucky. Just keep your defenses up, main both Reimu and Yukari if you have to just for your tank(s) to survive. For physical nukers, I kinda suggest to farm Blue Sabers in case you haven't. They're easier to get than Stars and Flan can simply wipe all mooks in floor 13 or 15. Amethyst and Obsidian Knights usually come more than 1. Original BGM is more badass than Plus Disc. :3
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Well, as it turns out, Spiriting Away hax really just hinges on what the boss's opening move is. Tried Flandre V2 again, and this time she lead off with Shooting Star, which is much less damaging than Ether Flare. My team survives, Flandre goes down to 10% active gauge, and World-Shaking Military Rule into Megawatt Linear Gun, Hourai Barrage, and Spiriting Away (rinse and repeat) kills her long before she gets another turn.
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Feels good, man... after 7 tries, Rinnosuke goes down, and the roster's full for now. My magic number was 99-- I was lucky enough to have Kourin in Fire Form as his second-to-last Form, so all of his attacks were doing little damage to my fully-buffed party: I used the chance to Focus everybody and use Ran to 100% everybody in the rear, max out Yukari's SP, and let loose as soon as his final form rolled around. He didn't even have a chance to use World-Shaking Military Rule. :3
And I got his item drop on the first try, too. :V
NOW THE FINAL STREEEEETCH! I'm not touching the final until everyone's at LEAST 120 across the board... by then I should already be able to break out regular ~120k+ nukes, hopefully. Time to grind and map out! EDIT: I was WONDERSTRUCK with how much exp you get at 20F! o_____O Haven't dropped any items yet, but at least I no longer autolose to Norns with Eyes. :P 20 more lvls, I think, before I try to take them on without World-Shaking Military Rule's help... I wonder if I'll ever beat them without Spiriting Away hax before I take on the final boss... probably not... :ohdear: I don't wanna grind that long. ><
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I should note that for Maribel's HP regeneration, she counts as one of the enemies herself in that formula.
So with 3 minions up, her HP is restored to 2,000,000 every time she acts if it was lower. With 2 up, it's 1,500,000, and with 1 up, it's 1,000,000.
Still a good idea to whittle her down a bit if you can do so safely, though. Also, JP wiki loads just fine through google translate for me right now
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Also, JP wiki loads just fine through google translate for me right now
Why me?
I think the problem could be in the source.
<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><meta name="google" content="notranslate"><title>Google Translate</title></head><frameset rows="65,*" frameborder=1 framespacing=0 cols="*"><frame src="/translate_n?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html" name=n scrolling=no noresize marginwidth=0 marginheight=0><frame src="/translate_p?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html&usg=ALkJrhhWMizkUN14BCPT_SuivJMpfrGDvA" name=c><noframes><script><!--document.location="/translate_p?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html&usg=ALkJrhhWMizkUN14BCPT_SuivJMpfrGDvA";--></script><a href="/translate_p?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html&usg=ALkJrhhWMizkUN14BCPT_SuivJMpfrGDvA">Translate</a></noframes></frameset></html>It's quite obviously caused by this <meta name="google" content="notranslate">"
But why?
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Why me?
I think the problem could be in the source.
<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><meta name="google" content="notranslate"><title>Google Translate</title></head><frameset rows="65,*" frameborder=1 framespacing=0 cols="*"><frame src="/translate_n?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html" name=n scrolling=no noresize marginwidth=0 marginheight=0><frame src="/translate_p?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html&usg=ALkJrhhWMizkUN14BCPT_SuivJMpfrGDvA" name=c><noframes><script><!--document.location="/translate_p?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html&usg=ALkJrhhWMizkUN14BCPT_SuivJMpfrGDvA";--></script><a href="/translate_p?hl=en&ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/1.html&usg=ALkJrhhWMizkUN14BCPT_SuivJMpfrGDvA">Translate</a></noframes></frameset></html>It's quite obviously caused by this But why?
Maybe it's an IE7 issue? I tried it in Firefox, and it worked, but I don't have IE 7 available to try with.
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That did the trick. But I wonder why it stopped working all of a sudden?
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Holy crap...
I just wanted to try it out of curiosity, but...
I just beat Master Light Wings E.V.D.
I HAVEN'T BEATEN THE GAME YET
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHH~
Okay, seriously, I just got lucky that I pushed him into a damage race and he never used his Final Danmaku skill-- Needle Parade was hurting enough as it is. :ohdear:
Time to clear 19F for reals, I think? :V
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Those bloodstained seals aren't that crazy really. The butterfly at least is weaker than the last boss, and you can probobly handle that robot thing as well, since I remember that being weaker.
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I did the robot one before Master Light Wings. It's so much easier.
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Both Hibachi's can be a bitch though. Bloody Papa's a joke. To me at least.
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I did the robot one before Master Light Wings. It's so much easier.
You're right-- I took your advice and went after Beast of Centaurus... wasn't as hard as I expected. Once more, I killed it as soon as it transformed with Spiriting Away shenanigan action. :3
Now it's time for the final battle! Let's see how many tries it takes me... :ohdear:
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Bloody Papa's pretty easy if you exploit his weakness to debuffs, but he's not available until after you defeat the final boss anyway. He's by far the most susceptible to Spiriting Away abuse, since he is guaranteed not to do any damage to you on his first turn. Hibachi is also not too hard to kill via Spiriting Away abuse, as long as your party can survive its opening Needle Parade.
Cleared all the V2 and Bloodstained Seal bosses with my Spiriting Away team. Double Hibachi was very easy this time around, much better than the first time I tried using this strategy. They each got off maybe two attacks before they died.
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Finally beat it! :3
Also did Boss Rush after I grinded for like 20 more lvls with everything 21F random battles had to offer. I found the exp in 20F to be comparable and the drops to be more desirable than those in 21F but I switched between the two as I went. At least I don't need World-Shaking Military Rule for now, which speeds up the mapping process.
However, I figured I'd try Hibachi before Bloody Papa, and... yeah, my opening party gets too hurt from THAT Needle Parade. I figure 180 across the board will be a good number before I try those guys. Now it's time to explore all the goodness from Plus Disk! Will I make it...? :ohdear:
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Finally pulled myself away from Skyrim and got back to work on this. Mari went down hard after I did some testing just to see how strong her regen was. Unless you can keep the pressure on her killing her with a minion alive is very difficult. You'd need to be grossly over leveled to out damage her. Either way I finally beat her. Since then I plowed through boss rush and got the mask, killed 3 of the available Bloody seal bosses (light wings, beast, and bloody papa) and I've taken out most of the V2 bosses.
Making really slow progress in terms of plus disc content but it's supposed to be like this last I heard. Floor 20 is still the best leveling spot I have. 21-23 give similar returns in EXP but at the cost of far more work. Yeah there are better item drops on those floors but I have yet to see any of them. Currently grinding so I can finish off the rest of the V2 bosses and move onto floor 24. Gonna take me a while.
Grats Trickster. Now the REAL fun begins :D
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For my part, I'm pretty well stuck at Eiki right now - my team lacks the staying power to take her down, plain and simple. And of course, Bar of the Ten Kings will kill any and all characters I have without question.
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For my part, I'm pretty well stuck at Eiki right now - my team lacks the staying power to take her down, plain and simple. And of course, Bar of the Ten Kings will kill any and all characters I have without question.
This part scares me... :ohdear:
I took a break from the game to indulge in Genius of Sappheiros, but I'll eventually pick it back up again to continue the dreadful climb to 30F. IT AIN'T OVER YET!
I strongly encourage everyone else who is playing and struggling to keep up the pace and never give in! This game gave me a terrific sense of accomplishment, not unlike climbing a mountain, and it feels good, man. :V
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Once in 30 though, it's all grindfest from there. Atm, I'm within the mid-late 400's and judging by the recommended levels, I don't feel strong enough yet. Plus farming for F30 stuff is a PAIN. Not a single Awakened Exoskeleton yet!
Eiki isn't that tough, imo. Yuuka and Okuu are much tougher. If you keep dying to Bar of the Ten Kings, then grinding's and getting better equipment's your best bet. I don't recall ever dying after she used Focus and I fought her like 7 times only cause she refuses to drop the Gantz Suit. Imo, it's easier to KO her after Focus than Yuuka. Spiriting Away shenanigans usually never fail at those times. Having Portable Makoto Ito's, Shiva's Leather Boots, Shuttle Body and Ribbons are good help against statuses.
Btw, does anyone have a good pic for Shikieiki?
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Well, I'll grant I've never actually seen her use Bar of the Ten Kings yet, I just know it would kill me if she DID. :P I can't quite heal through her other AoEs either, they just don't kill me until she uses two or three of them in a row. My damage tops out at about 700k a hit against her (buffed), though that's with a gear set that is, shall we say, not very good for status resistance (equipping the status resistance stuff drops it by about 100k).
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I've had Shikieiki use Focus when she still had almost half of her health remaining. Yeah, I wasn't surviving that one. The worst part about it is that unlike Master Spark or Fujiyama Volcano or most other lolpartywipe boss nukes, Bar of the Ten Kings has no element, so you can't expect to tank it with affinities.
(Taking a break from the game to play League of Legends, which I just started this week.)
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As I thought, Kedamagrammaton was easy after beating Utsuho. Even with Djinn Storm and Reimu dying, Komachi tanked everything. And she was poisoned. :V
No drop though. That's annoying.
edit: 28F... I could break the gimmick here so easily, but I won't. More exp this way.
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Well, I'll grant I've never actually seen her use Bar of the Ten Kings yet, I just know it would kill me if she DID. :P I can't quite heal through her other AoEs either, they just don't kill me until she uses two or three of them in a row. My damage tops out at about 700k a hit against her (buffed), though that's with a gear set that is, shall we say, not very good for status resistance (equipping the status resistance stuff drops it by about 100k).
Of course you don't have to give your nukers much stat resistance gears. I was talking about (semi) perma front line members like Meiling or support chars which you don't even need to attack with. Having Rumia's nice as well for a secondary group healer. At that part of the game, Nitori could already break 1m damage, assuming you got Gurthang earlier. In the end, it all comes down to strategy and stat tweaking. For my part, I only attack with the right most person.
Kedamagrammaton's a push over. One round of World-Shaking Military Rule + Spiriting Away strategies can beat it before it can do a second or third move.
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Eiki's toasted now. She Focused, I killed her on my last turn before Bar of the Ten Kings fired. :P
Now to backtrack and pick up Yuuka and Okuu...
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Grats and good luck.
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... am I reading the database right in observing that Yuuka has a 1/5 shot of full healing herself every turn once you've taken her HP down by a third?
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... am I reading the database right in observing that Yuuka has a 1/5 shot of full healing herself every turn once you've taken her HP down by a third?
Where'd you see that? The wiki nor the enemy database doesn't say anything about healing. The only thing to take note of is that once her HP reaches roughly 1/3 or below, she'll start using Focus then Master Spark.
From what I see, between max HP and 10m, she does Flower Shot (25% - Single), Hail Plant (15% - Single), Magic Drain (15% - Single), Sakura Blizard (15% - Row), Arrow Rain (15% - Multi) and Overgrowth (15% - Multi). Between 10m and 5m, she uses Flower Shot (30%), Magic Drain (20%), Gensokyo's Reflowering (20% - Multi), Beauty of Nature (20% - Multi), and Overgrowth (10%). Below 5m, it's Focus then Master Spark.
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Gensokyo's Reflowering heals for for a lot, but I think if it looks like a full heal, there's a 0 missing or being added somewhere... I think it IS 1/10th of her HP though, which is still pretty damn significant.
Oh jeez I haven't looked at this thread in forever.
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Finally beat Hibachi so the 4 starting Bloody seal bosses are dead now. Tried duel Hibachi and got steam rolled so that's out for the time being. Finally mopped up the last of the V2 bosses. Amazing what a little grinding and spiriting away shenanigans can do. Though Yukari V2 herself gave me a lot of trouble until I remembered "derp debuffs derp derp". So I've been kicking around floors 22, 23 and 24. The encounters are really starting to edge on my nerves so I've taken to shutting them off at random so I can do floor exploration in peace. Dying every other encounter while I'm trying to map things out gets really tiring.
Party is about Reimu level 175 so I still have a lot of work to do before I'm ready to take on Okuu, Yuka, Eiki, and the sigil guardians (save for flame tyrant anyways) Still need that 5th star so I can take on Mari V2 as well. Not looking forward to that. :ohdear:
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Where'd you see that? The wiki nor the enemy database doesn't say anything about healing. The only thing to take note of is that once her HP reaches roughly 1/3 or below, she'll start using Focus then Master Spark.
From what I see, between max HP and 10m, she does Flower Shot (25% - Single), Hail Plant (15% - Single), Magic Drain (15% - Single), Sakura Blizard (15% - Row), Arrow Rain (15% - Multi) and Overgrowth (15% - Multi). Between 10m and 5m, she uses Flower Shot (30%), Magic Drain (20%), Gensokyo's Reflowering (20% - Multi), Beauty of Nature (20% - Multi), and Overgrowth (10%). Below 5m, it's Focus then Master Spark.
Yeah, according to the database, Gensokyo's Reflowering heals 15 million. :P
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I looked, and... it does? Wow. I think it only heals 1.5 million, though.
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Yeah, I could buy it being a typo. By the time Yuuka pulled it on me I had no hope of winning anyway, so.
Right now, 27F is just giving me headaches. And I don't mean because of difficulty, I mean because looking at the map is giving me eyestrain headaches, lol.
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I dunno if it's a typo or not, but I think it's 1.5m since I recall beating V1 post Reflowering and I've been fighting the V2 a lot and didn't have trouble taking her out after she did it. Then again, it may be cause I've been doing so much damage to actually notice it.
EDIT: Yeah, definitely think it's a typo. I've just tested it on V2, who also has 15m HP, after she did Gensokyo's Reflowering. I did between 6m+ damage to her before she got to her next turn. Her next move was Focus, which she'd normally do with less than 5m HP, and fell to 3.7m+ damage afterwards. So I don't think the skill fully restores her.
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If there was any healing in the Yuuka fight I didn't notice it. Even if there was, it was still the easiest of the three character fights.
Reached 29F. Why does it have the same floor gimmick as 28F?
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More like a bit of 28 and more on the big maze thingy.
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OK I returned playing after a long hiatus and still have this team.
Sanae. Mind tank with some HP. Not sure what else to put into.
Patchouli. Mind/Magic. Gives me some coverage against composite while retaining her heavy hiting.
Meiling. HP/def/mind.
Kaguya. Mind. I have plenty of attackers and not as many buffers. Aside that, letting me hit a double Last Judgment or Knockout in 3 steps
Cirno. Att. I am actually contemplating doing HP but that would make her terrible at sweeping.
Wriggle. Def/Mind. Being my 2nd tank.
Utsuko. Mag. Having the only mystic attack in my roster as well as being one of the three piercing attack.
Yuugi. Att. Enough said
Eiki. Att. Last Judgement was one of my most staple attack in my last run.
Komachi. Att. I got enough front and second liners and Komachi has enough HP to not get one shotted unlike some of my roster.
Kanako. Mag. Being the best cold nuke.
Reimu. Def/Mag. Benefit from her own defensive buff.
I took this team on a run lvl 1 against Meiling. Turns out that she was too easy with death or para on her so I made a restriction from using those two. Unfortunate she was immune to debuffs and poison. With the restriction and immunity, a lot of my characters were simply just HP soaks since they cannot use any moves and makes this fight genuinely tough! I was able to win while only losing Kaguya, Wriggle, and Komachi, I'll get a youtube video up soon.
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Man I didn't realize Plus disc was going to be THIS boring. I expected grinding for levels but this is just ridiculous. That and the sigil guardians are beginning to really irk me. Baal Avatar in particular. I keep coming so close to beating him and then something stupid happens. Usually he just randomly decides to one shot whomever is in slot 3 with double slash for the lulz. That and I swear his damage formulas are borked. I know his stats start incrementing after you drain 3mil from him but sometimes I wonder if he's still doing too much dmg to back row characters. Oh well must just be bad luck. I hear the Fern sigil guardian after him is worse.
Reimu 204 isn't enough currently I guess it's back to floor 25 to slaughter more random floor trash. Gonna shoot for 210-15ish see where that gets me.
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I wouldn't worry about the sigil gaurdians if you can just go past them. Unless you've reached the point where you have to kill them, in which case nevermind. As I recall, 27th floor is basically the best place to grind until you can actually manage the 30th floor "mooks" with relative speed.
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27's best for Skill Point farming and gives decent exp. 29's better for pure exp, imo.
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The SKP output of 27F made grinding kinda fun.
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I figured the insane amount of skillpoints outweighed the slightly lower exp. In fact, I ran from any encounter that did not have succubi in it, as I figured that was actually a more efficient use of time. And of course...
The SKP output of 27F made grinding kinda fun.
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FINALLY
I REACHED 30F A DIFFERENT BATTLE THEME
How long until I get sick of this one?
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Guys i got some help from this page so i wanna share this image set, it not much of what i wanded to release but at least is something. They are from different artists so there's no affinity in the artstyle, anyway i posted the link in another site who helped me too but im not sure if this will be enought to let the file survive long.
http://www.mediafire.com/?l699a4vp5215ba6
Some images are repeated from another sets and others are not even from their respective character, because i coundn't find better ones. dunno if there's another set with the same images i chopped, if so plz tell me with a link to it because i cant find stuff with enought appeal to me tnks :blush:
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I wouldn't worry about the sigil gaurdians if you can just go past them. Unless you've reached the point where you have to kill them, in which case nevermind. As I recall, 27th floor is basically the best place to grind until you can actually manage the 30th floor "mooks" with relative speed.
I'm at the point where I have to kill them. Well not all of them anyways. Wiki says I need to down Baal Avatar and the fern sigil guardian to move onto floor 26. My levels are no where near high enough to bother trying to take on Okuu or Yuka so pressing on is my only option aside from more grinding of course. Reimu 208ish now. Haven't been playing the game as much lately because I'm trying not to burn myself out. I'm not giving up it's just going to take me a bit.
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As I continue on the grind to be ready for 30F, I'm curious: has anyone ever dug into the game with a debugger or the like to trace down the damage number display bug's causes?
I suspect it's something silly like the game calling the randomizer separately for the displayed damage and the actual damage, but...
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Master Light Wings V2 down at Reimu lv327. How easy.
Random thought: a Nuzlocke of this game.
edit: okay, I knew Suwako V3 was supposedly easy, but that was ridiculous. Why is she only half as fast as Tenshi, and much weaker?
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sorry for digressing but does anyone here know how to hack BP using CE? trying to complete some events to fight yuyuko, its really troublesome to fight a hundred battles just for certain benched characters' BP
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If you can find the character's level address, add 1C8 to it to get the BP. if the number looks weird, give or take another 4.
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Random thought: a Nuzlocke of this game.
I'd be interested, but you'd need like, SOOOOO much patience and time to grind properly and make sure you don't lose any random encounters to stupid things like those tops... not to mention that certain boss fights will probably make you pull your hair thrice over is you get unlucky. :( Maybe limit it to just 20F? I don't see 21F+ being doable without losing anybody unless you run away a lot... also, doesn't doing a Nuzlocke prevent you from using World-Shaking Military rule for, like, more than once ever? :ohdear:
I don't think it's impossible, but it certainly can be a test of patience...
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A solo Meiling run of the game has been done before IIRC.
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If there's any character that can manage a solo, it's Meiling, so I wouldn't doubt it.
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If you can find the character's level address, add 1C8 to it to get the BP. if the number looks weird, give or take another 4.
i don't quite get the adding part, i've calculated rumia's lv address as '018742B4', what should the BP address be?
also, all of the addresses i've calculated on my last session have changed, is this supposed to happen? i can't manage to get the addresses in the given CT to work
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also, doesn't doing a Nuzlocke prevent you from using World-Shaking Military rule for, like, more than once ever? :ohdear:
I was thinking 'no deaths' rather than 'you lose at 0 TP', but that sounds even more sadistic fun. :derp:
Though considering how Military Rule works, you probably would only get to use it once.
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How will you survive
Yuugi and Yuugi ver 2? Knockout in 3 Steps
is pretty much a guaranteed kill. There is also Eiki and Maribel
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Scourge is pretty scary and so is Last Judgement, but I guess Komachi
can take it.
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You'd have to employ "throw-away" characters I guess. The idea seems pretty unrealistic though.
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i don't quite get the adding part, i've calculated rumia's lv address as '018742B4', what should the BP address be?
also, all of the addresses i've calculated on my last session have changed, is this supposed to happen? i can't manage to get the addresses in the given CT to work
It would be 0187447C, 4 ahead or before would be 01874478 and 01874480 respectively.
Characters who have a poison spell tend to change addresses with each session. But the yyyy portion of their address in xxxxyyyy should still be the same.
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its not just the character addresses that changed, but also addresses for exp gain, encounter rate, item, etc....
also, how does the addition involving addresses work, i dont quite get the calculation (sry for the trouble ><)
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Hexadecimal maths.
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Thanks!
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Is there any way to fix random encounters using Cheat Engine?
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Search for the displayed encounter rate with its decimals and all as float type. It'll take a few steps to nail the exact address. Once you have it, lock it at 0 for no encounters.
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I guess I worded that wrong. What I meant was if there was a way to fix it so that only certain enemies appear, like only facing Liliths.
It would make 30F slightly easier.
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Not that I know of or tried. I think it's at least somewhere in the code for those floors you want to edit.