Author Topic: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Game Over, Town Wins] (Read 113641 times)

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #210 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:00:13 AM »

I'm pointing this out because it means our situation is even worse than I thought. We need 7 to lynch... and none of the main cases have more than 2 votes. Augh.

Also, she made that comment here. I'm wondering what she was trying to get at now. Maybe I just can't process the OP properly.

Ryuki · « **Reply #211 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:00:42 AM »

I was assuming that D1 was a plurality lynch? That seems to be the norm on this site...

Ryuki · « **Reply #212 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:02:00 AM »

I wasn't trying to get at anything. I thought that D1 Plurality lynch was the norm on this site. I did not read the OP. Am I mistaken?

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #213 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:02:22 AM »

It tends to differ from game to game. The OP says that this game has majority lynches on all days.

A plurality lynch actually sounds nice about now considering that nobody seems to want to agree on a case at all. I'm still holding out in hopes more people will consider Depore. Xix should respond to me about that~

Den-O · « **Reply #214 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:03:42 AM »

You're reading the OP right. It says a lack of majority lynch will mean No Lynch. I actually didn't notice that. If I had to guess, Yuan was remembering how last game here went.

So, yeah, I know what you mean. I'll be around before deadline tomorrow, at least (This time for real, because it's like 6 PM for me), so I can switch if necessary, though naturally I'd prefer it not be and we kill Just with fire.

@Yuan: I'm not sure I'd say it's the norm. The past few games have been...interesting with regards to that. But I mean, if you're going to talk about the deadline, you probably should have checked the rules.

Punch Hopper · « **Reply #215 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:06:12 AM »

Then why are we fighting Nav-tan? （￣□￣；）I thought what I just said about them was clear. You want to make me write essays for you? Can I just unvote and leave until Day 2 like everyone else? Your protecting Depore is likely why she doesn't feel the need to play with the rest of us. Is this my reward for replying to your accusations? I'll make something concisely telling you about my accusations. I'll not be dapper if you reply to it with nothing more then how interesting it is.

I believe I read it differently then Iffri-chan. I don't want the day to end like that either~☆ Finding more problems with Depore would be a good start. I'm not against it. One is worse then Depore. Depore's playstyle, if we can call it that, is her cutting me to post like an utter derp. （?-?*) I changed my mind. That's too lone player to be scum. I don't think an entire team would miss something I answered already. Xix-kun wins points with me for not bandwagon hopping but I'd like him to tell me what about my content he liked. Now I'm forced to compose on more neutral reads. More tests for Grandpa Nav-tan! ヽ(；▽；)ノ

Nav-tan is just grumpy. I don't really have a case on Iffri-chan. Just a bad feeling that seems to have been misunderstanding. We do need a majority Iffri-chan and I don't think I'm willing to lynch Depore now.

Den-O · « **Reply #216 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:09:22 AM »

I'm asking for the opposite of essays. Just a couple sentences on all your scum suspects, and any links you want to throw at me to support your claims. And fair enough, I'll try to give you something in depth, but don't expect me to provide defenses for those you're attacking.

Ryuki · « **Reply #217 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:11:22 AM »

That's my bad then. I'm sorry if I've misled anyone (I've certainly misled myself >.>)

P-Edit: Demon, ask yourself. Does that last post look like scum trying to avoid a lynch? Or does it look like frustrated town looking to try and prove they are town?

It looks a lot like the interactions between you and I in the last game.

Den-O · « **Reply #218 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:13:30 AM »

I disagree. But we'll see if he comes up with anything interesting when he posts his cases. As for interactions between you and I last game, you were town and refused to answer the questions posed to you. Just seems to be complying quite easily with my requests. So the situations aren't really the same at all. Interesting you'd make that comparison though.

Bardiche · « **Reply #219 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:18:57 AM »

Public Service Announcement: The mod would like to remind everyone to read the rules because Bard plays by different rules. ;_; It'd make me very sad if I had to take punitive actions for things that could've been avoided.

Ryuki · « **Reply #220 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:19:21 AM »

Quote from: Demon Navarus on July 14, 2011, 02:13:30 AM

I disagree. But we'll see if he comes up with anything interesting when he posts his cases. As for interactions between you and I last game, you were town and refused to answer the questions posed to you. Just seems to be complying quite easily with my requests. So the situations aren't really the same at all. Interesting you'd make that comparison though.

I did answer your questions, thank you. You and Bard just decided it was LOLTUNNEL time.

Anyway, this game isn't about that one. I just read Just as town.

Den-O · « **Reply #221 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:25:15 AM »

That's fine. Fits well really.

Kiva-la · « **Reply #222 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:28:35 AM »

Quote from: Book of the Past on July 14, 2011, 12:57:46 AM

Orwen, could you summarize your Mala case, and tell us who else you want lynched? It's not very clear.

Sure thing! First, the Mala case.

Mala's first serious vote was on Navarus, because she found his defense of her scummy. At that time, I found it suspicious that she didn't mention Navarus's claim that Depore was town when claiming Navarus was scummy for defending Mala. She has since explained that she wasn't really paying attention to it since it was during the RVS. However, her votes concerning Xix and Moonin is several kinds of strange.

For starters, I don't like her Xix voting patterns. I understand why she unvoted Xix (to take him away from L-1), but I'm unclear about how Moonin is currently worse. In fact, I would like her to take a second look at Moonin's content post and tell us what she thinks of Moonin from it; while she did press Moonin, she did not tell us her opinion of the post, which came after her vote on Moonin. However, I know she disliked Xix's first content post, which came before her vote on Moonin:

Quote from: Prophet Mala on July 13, 2011, 08:52:03 AM

As for unvoting Xix: I did it because he had been placed at L-1. As for Xix's #79, I don't like it all that much. The entire post consists of Xix defending himself and commenting on a few people with no real content.

Furthermore:

Quote from: Prophet Mala on July 13, 2011, 11:10:22 PM

Depore? I would prefer other lynches at this point.
I do however also find her #115 disconcerting. After stating that she finds Moonin to be scummy for unknown reasons she calls his "content" post as really townie. The "content" that I'd still like some questions answered (It should actually read @Xix #73.) about. It seems like Depore simply got scared off by the size of the post instead of really looking at the content. (of which half comes from a liberal use of the enter key and large size font while announcing how many times he had been cut.)
Actually Depore is just as bad as Xix, Moonin and Just.

Between the beginning of the post and the end, she goes from Depore not being a high priority to being just as bad as her other three scum picks. In fact, one of my greatest concerns about her play stems from this: She has freely gone from Xix to Moonin with relatively little explanation, and she's giving herself a lot of flexibility by stating that her reads are about equal. She doesn't seem to be very committed to her reads, instead allowing them to be as flexible as she needs them to be. Thus, I think she's likely to be scum. Of these reads, the one she's explained the least is her Just read, and I would like her to expand it in light of Just's recent posts.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #223 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:34:09 AM »

Quote from: Just on July 14, 2011, 02:06:12 AM

Finding more problems with Depore would be a good start.

I don't really know why my case needs more meat to it. I could throw off a shotgun attack nitpicking at everything Depore has posted, but that's just going to subtract from the overall worth of my case.

I think Depore is scum because she made an opportunistic vote on Xix that failed to actually explain why Xix is scum, and I think that this is something newbscum trying to start a townie wagon would do. Adding to this is her choice to throw out slight suspicion towards equally easy targets such as One and Moonin, then retract it when they post substantial content (like she did towards Moonin). She's basically looking for easy cases to jump on.

Anything else I could add to my points would just be padding, really. These are the points that I see the most scum intent in coming from Depore.

Can you explain why you think One is worse than Depore? His play is bad, but I believe Moonin put it best when he said that bad play is only indicative of skill. I don't see the type of scummy motivation coming from him that I can easily see coming from Depore.

Den-O · « **Reply #224 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:38:36 AM »

Is that at me or Just, Iffrita?

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #225 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:40:33 AM »

That's towards Just. I was quoting him, after all.

Though, I would appreciate it if most people supporting the One lynch explain why they think he has more scum intent than Depore does. The reason I never particularly asked you about this, Nav, is because I figured the main reason you were giving Depore passes was because of personal reads that I wouldn't really expect to change.

Den-O · « **Reply #226 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:45:20 AM »

That's basically it. Though oddly enough, my thing about One is that I feel his L-1 vote on Xix was super opportunistic in the newbscum way that you seem to find Depore scum. Hence why I was wondering if you wanted a further answer from me.

Punch Hopper · « **Reply #227 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:47:08 AM »

I expect you to vote for someone else~☆ I'm allergic to fire~☆ And I always try to answer reasonable requests~☆
Stop fighting with Yuan-town for disagreeing with you when you're wrong. You should be checking other people as well as I.

Your case needs more to it Iffri-chan if other members of town aren't taking it. Admittedly Depore's return post has her throwing suspicion at me conveniently when I'm a hot topic. Everyone wants a little of me (*?∀?)=3 But it strikes me as town trying to fit in amongst all the loud voices. Why is Depore worse then One? Her play is bad, but I can see more scummy motivation coming from One.

One
~~is Chitose obvious scum~~
Decided to get neutral when the game got serious. His statement about how neutral players are suspicious while trying to stay neutral is why I voted him in the first place. Staring at this post again http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2722 brings back my original lynching feelings. He's spent more posts telling us theories on how to get information then actually giving us information. I can summarize his posts as not voting or voting someone he states he does not think is scum followed by lurkers being the scummiest followed by not reading the lurker content followed by voting Yuan for attacking him. That's his reason. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676346.html#msg676346 Why isn't he dead yet? (ＴAＴ)

Kiro · « **Reply #228 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:51:25 AM »

Princess Miya has been prodded.

Den-O · « **Reply #229 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:51:33 AM »

Oh, I have my list of reads already. You're here though, so why not question you?

Is One your only remaining case? I'll admit it's fairly solid though. I'll ruminate on it a little.

Sasword · « **Reply #230 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:53:48 AM »

I must admit that I'm embarrassed that I forgot about One. Unfortunately, I'm taking a trip to Thanatos for a while, so I'll post back in a few hours when I arrive.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #231 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:08:28 AM »

@Nav: Actually, that's the part of the One case I find to be the most agreeable. It really becomes a toss up over which position you think newbscum would be more likely to make. I believe Depore looks scummier because she seemed to go for the early point on the wagon where she would have a larger chance of blending in, which makes sense as something that would be combined with her opportunism. As for One, I don't think this is One's first game, but even if it is, I think that the contents of the RVS would be enough for him to realize that late votes on wagons look rather iffy. Scum!One would be drawing unnecessary attention to himself by placing Xix at so many votes, and I think he would have actually gone for Moonin instead, seeing as he was clearly in the place where he could do so. The awkward prioritization looks like a derp mistake to me.

Additionally, One's case on Xix seems like he was looking for scum intent to me, even though the case itself made no sense. Depore doesn't have this luxury. I realize this is just an interpretation argument, but I hope you can at least understand my side better from what I'm explaining.

@Just: I expect to be lambasted for this, but I believe that completely neutrality tends to a null tell when seen in weaker players. I've seen enough newbtowns who actually have inward struggles trying to figure out who they think is scum that I find it difficult to think otherwise. I think aggressive attempts to start wagons like what Depore tried are a lot more indicative of newbscum status than not being able to form opinions.

The hypocrisy doesn't really bug me because I don't see how it's scummy hypocrisy. I know you seem to believe he's scum by his own logic, but if you read into One's post and suspicions then it starts to seem a little like he's focusing more on lurking than actual neutrality, only failing to properly explain himself.

The One case as a whole feels rather mechanical to me. It's like people are automatically jumping him for what they know to be bad play, without actually thinking about whether or not newbscum would want to make these bad plays here and why they would actually do so. This is a very good way to get bad townies lynched for being bad at the game. The only point about One which I feel holds any water is the way he jumped on Xix, and even then, I feel Depore's jump on Xix is a lot more worthy of scrutiny.

Den-O · « **Reply #232 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:16:36 AM »

Ugh...you know what? I'm going to do something stupid.

I'm going to stick on Just, despite the fact my brain is demanding he's town. It wants to agree with the case on One. But my gut is screaming at me that Just has to be scum. I really hate throwing such a move out there because it's literally something you can't defend against. It's demotivating. I'm trying to get AWAY from that sort of behavior. But it's what I have.

...what makes this worse is the fact that if I push bullheadedly forward with Just scum, I'm going to have to either accept One is newbtown, or that Just has been bussing him all of D1. To be honest, I'm not really willing to do an in depth analysis of which is more likely until I have one of their flips. But I will say that my inclination is to pull off of One a bit and put him in the desperation lynch pile, effectively making the only lynch with my full support Just.

So...that's my stance. I figured it'd be better than getting into a situation where I'm making non genuine cases and such.

Den-O · « **Reply #233 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:20:26 AM »

EBWOP: Of course I will switch to the leading wagon to secure a lynch at deadline (Assuming it's not one of my strong town reads like Moonin. I will fight hard for a counterwagon)

Punch Hopper · « **Reply #234 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:26:53 AM »

Perhaps. I'm checking my list twice.
Since they both only have one post reading Mikhail and Miya is quickest.

Miya
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675876.html#msg675876
An annoying observation about Miya. She names suspicious behaviour in four different players and then votes Iffri-chan for holding onto suspicion on Mala after unvoting her. It's a defense of Mala disguised by waiting until the unvote to defend her. I don't know why this looked good the first time I read it. I would lynch her just for this~☆

Mikhail
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675937.html#msg675937
Mikhail makes a vote on Orwen by defending Mala from him is there an echo in here? ┐(￣ー￣)┌ A fundamental difference is his post is an actual case on his suspect combined with a town read. He adds a new point (Xix-kun's waffling) to the case and states his secondary suspect along with his read on One. Strikingly town.

Nav-tan shouldn't make this into a two person choice. It's not the last hour. Forcing me to have more then one scum read while trying to force my lynch as your ONLY SCUM READ is hypocritical.

Den-O · « **Reply #235 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:32:31 AM »

You're not my only scum read, but I have reasons for holding back one of mine at this time. I know it seems weird and kind of bad, but link this post tomorrow (if we're both alive). I feel that you or One flipping will help me figure out a third scum read. I feel stronger on my scum read on you, because I trust my gut more than my head. That could be foolish, but I'll try it for now.

As for a two person choice, my main reason for that is because I really don't have scummy vibes from the other four on the table.

Ouja · « **Reply #236 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:37:12 AM »

My my, the time goes by. And time lost cannot be regained unfortunately.

I am not sure if I will be here by deadline tomorrow, so I will list the players I would vote for.

Xix (#1 choice now)
Orwen (#2)
Depore (#3)
One (#4)

I have strong town reads on Book #1, Yuan #2, Iffrita #3, Just #4, Miya #5 in that order. Anyone I didn't mention I lean as neutral.

I am firmly against a Just lynch and would much rather vote my #1 and #2 scum choice over my #3 and #4 and below. I can not go into specifics at the moment, but I am not inspired by Xix's lastest post which continues to impress upon me retrograde scum hunting.

I at least understand more of Orwen's case on Mala (and it made sense reading it), which is why I downgraded him, although I am not clearing him.

About my town reads: I find myself agreeing with MOST of the opinions of Yuan, Book, Iffrita, and Just. I agree with their reasoning, and many of their conclusions. Most importantly, I think their intent is town. I believe Miya to be town because of a rare town-meta exhibited by this player, as well as okish logic and what I believe is town intent.

##Unvote
##Vote: Xix

I would like to see this wagon gain momentum once more. As much as I believe Чшч ещ иу ысгь Ш ерштл ерфе Чшч шы еру иуые днтср ащк штащкьфешщт фы цуддю

Punch Hopper · « **Reply #237 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:38:16 AM »

I'm the only one you're willing to vote for. That makes me your only scum read. Anything you say otherwise is lacking the only proof that matters. Your vote. I feel like your excuse for getting another scum read isn't a good enough reason give up and accept a stupid Day 1 town lynch. Forget you. Huddle in the corner and wait for the day to be over then. I'll be over here actually trying to find the scum.

Den-O · « **Reply #238 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:40:20 AM »

I don't think lynching you would be stupid. But it's fine to not continue our debate. At this point my thing is gut. If we have anything to discuss it'll be opinions of other players.

Kick Hopper · « **Reply #239 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:47:35 AM »

I don't like the concept of lynching based on information like Mikhail and Navarus are suddenly suggesting, though I'm not particularly faulting them for it since they're treating it as a bonus rather than using it to attack their non-scum reads. Still, I want to know how Navarus thinks Just's death will help her find a third scum suspect, when from my point of view, Just has actually had very few "telling" interactions with the current unknowns of the game.