MotK 3: Dead Townies [Day 2]

[BT]

When I first read PX's post it bugged me that he clearly skimmed the game, but I guess didn't catch enough suspicious things along the way because that post lacks meat. And scum are usually the ones who have a hard time meating up their posts. I mean, the most substantial thing there seems to be one Raikaria post. And Rai posts lots.

The second thing I noticed is the weird back-and-forth on Dormio like he felt like he had to comment on him even though no one else got that wishy washy treatment? It might just be my tunnelvision (it's definitely my tunnelvision) but it makes me think PX is scum with Dormio.


When I read the post again it seemed more reasonable to me. So I dunno. I guess what I'm saying is that PX should post more but for now I don't like what I got.

Squamous.

[Polaris]

ok I feel like my raikaria townread needs a peer review. if this doesn't actually hold up under scrutiny i'll need to reread

so remember that one time a couple of years ago when raikaria was like "i'd rather lynch zakeri over dormio" and bt was like "wow if zakeri flips town i'm gonna lynch raikaria so hard" and raikaria "is that..... a declaration of intent.... to TUNNEL?"

i feel like raikaria is in this position where he is town and he knows he is town, so he's basically considering everyone else from his town high horse like he's above it all, and it's really an impressive (or impressively depressing) lack of self-awareness to realize that what he did would in fact look extremely scummy if zakeri did flip town at that moment

like the reaction felt so genuinely offended that i dunno if it's possible for scum to fake that

(i was thinking of this because raikaria made a repeat comment about this in the quicktopic, one of the things i read before i quit it entirely)

thanks for reading, constructive criticism appreciated

cherimoya

cut by BT: kind of funny that we had the opposite reactions on PX's post

[WHMZakeri]

accord? that what "was there" was a reason to vote for Raikaria and ignore dormio's post.

[BT]

Polly I said I think the PX post is reasonable after I read it again. But, like, even if I think he's saying sensible things, I still think it might fit scum in his position. You can't win with these things.

Especially if you have pseudohermaphroditism.

[BT]

I didn't mention kim/kinumi but there's another sensible sound post but I want more posts please. He or she? I forgot im sorry

PARAPARESIS

[BT]

thanks for reading, constructive criticism appreciated

I read that post again and it's just not very emotive. I can't get a read on it.

I do think Raikaria had a bunch of other townie sounding posts but I don't remember which, dude posts a lot.

osteoarthritis osteoarthritis osteoarthritis

[BT]

A review of where I stand before I go to sleep.

1,2. Serela and Raikaria are town I think but they're too hung up about the strength of my votes and overlooking all the other townie stuff I've been doing. they should reevaluate their cases.

3. I need to reread Polly tomorrow because I'm bouncing back and forth, but 80% of the time I think he's town and emoting like a townie would.

4. Zak still feels town to me.

5. kim/kinumi needs to post most and their posts don't sway me one way or another, it's like PX's post on steroids: the things in there are OK but it's way too short and therefore weak and easily faked if they're scum.

6,7. My vote is still on PX and honestly I'm not sure I want to switch to Dormio, it's like, I still remember some D1 dormio posts which made me think he's town despite his fiction about me being mafia. I still think PX was conveniently there to lynch the oneshot rolecop (only for a town governor to thwart that). I still want to get to the bottom of this slot. PX it is.

Hopefully I didn't miss anyone. NMR! NMR! NMR!

[Polaris]

cut by bt which i'm putting up at the front: i meant how i liked PX's post at first but it looked like it was skimming after a second look, but you were like oh PX looks like he was skimming and then said you found it reasonable after a second look :v

i've got my head in the clooooooouuuuuddberries~

ok quick update on actual scumreads

- px: more content needed but he's shaping up, if only he posted more in d1. still possible to be scum based on how d1 wagons went down but pursuing that is really more contingent on a zakeri/dormio flip
- zakeri: after reading d1 in isolation, zakeri is pretty scummy with the weird dancing with BT and the "oh no i'm suspicious, woe is me" post that is actually kind of hilarious when i think about it. d2 posts don't make him seem any better or worse. the only problem is his claim, which skews him towards the possibility of town
- dormio: imo i feel like dormio voting bt AGAIN is kind of bleh (honestly the BT wagon looks kind of iffy in general, but then again one of the votes is Raikaria and another one is Serela). the case looks ok but i can't remember if he actually talked about anyone other than BT.

[Polaris]

guava BT NOO I LIKE JUST HAVING AN ACTIVE PERSON POST ALONGSIDE ME

[Polaris]

nectarine

##Unvote
##Vote Dormio

imo i'm gonna switch to a pressure vote Dormio for more content here, since on a second look I realized he only talked about BT (and spent a good chunk of time defending himself over anything else)

[Raikaria]

Raikaria: His 286 post really alarms me. First his statement that his ability automatically makes him town. I don't like his suspicion on Polly because Townies are people too and they can dislike someone and not share information if they want to. Hiding information from everybody is sometimes better than sharing it with the guilty, but he seems vehemently against the idea. He's posting a "gotcha" point on BT ignoring the correction he made afterwards on an incorrect word and then using the exact same point to paint Zakeri guilty (the idea that Zak is fakeclaiming rolecop).

Roles do not indicate any alignment, it's how they're used.

The fact that nobody spoke up about the ability that saved Zakeri leads me to believe that it is scum aligned.

A slip is a slip. BT confessed it was a slip. Looking for slips is a major part of scumhunting.

I myself have said roles do not indicate alignment as part of the fact my continued suspicion on Zakeri. However, if you want to think a Neighbouriser is a potential sinner-role, go ahead and think that. I personally subscribe to Love Thy Neighbour.

I have spoken up about the ability that saved Zakeri. I have also stated the fact that no-one has claimed responsibility is suspicious. You're agreeing with me a lot here PX. I'm unsure where your conclusion that I am the worst is coming from, although scrutiny is appreciated.

i feel like raikaria is in this position where he is town and he knows he is town, so he's basically considering everyone else from his town high horse like he's above it all, and it's really an impressive (or impressively depressing) lack of self-awareness to realize that what he did would in fact look extremely scummy if zakeri did flip town at that moment

like the reaction felt so genuinely offended that i dunno if it's possible for scum to fake that

(i was thinking of this because raikaria made a repeat comment about this in the quicktopic, one of the things i read before i quit it entirely)

Well; when you're town, and you know you are town, who else can you trust but thyself? I guess Serela at this point since he is confirmed. Perhaps the least useful confirmed townie other than perhaps PX, but alas.

Also it's a shame you quit the confessional booth Polaris. I hoped you would be useful for directing my stream of thoughts. A second opinion. There might have even been benefits for you.

So, I'll ask you in public, seeing as you declined to answer in private. Well; I won't ask for a claim in public. But I'll ask the second question again.

- A lot of Day 1 you seemed to be acting like Dormio's echo. Do you have any independent thoughts on people you haven't spoken about in the thread? Especially thoughts on Dormio himself.

for that matter, because of the suspicion this has given me, I've decided to go over your posts and I spot a clear disconnect. In #153 you deflect the lurker hunt from PX to actiondan, including a change of vote to go with it, and in addition, you add in a defense for PX's lack of activity by reminding other that he has promised content. A lot of your other content for the rest of dayone follows this pattern as well. in 184, Raikaria posts reads on everyone, mentioning how "unhelpful" PX's vote on me was but also subconciously ranking Actiondan higher priority. 214 and 240 create a pattern of "I believe PX is the worst, but Zakeri is the decided wagon for the day." Which is odd because he doesn't even bother mentioning actiondan even though that was his vote before consolidating onto me. Then it ends in post 252, where Raikaria claims he was pushing PX as the #1 lynch for the day.

When compared to Raikaria's actions today, where he dismisses the votes on PX as "absolutely not scumhunting"... il est m?fiant

Deflection? No. I was pointing out people ignoreing Actiondan when he was just as guilty of lurking in the shadows of this Holy place. I was pointing out inconsitancies in Delurk attempts. It made no sense to attempt to Delurk Px but not ActionDan who was equally guilty of the sin.

I thought PX was worse than Actiondan because no content is better than unhelpful content. Actiondan was never a viable wagon, so I simply elected not to waste the time of the congregation.

I am not pushing for PX currently because that would be nothing but pushing for an easy lurker lynch. It would not give us any interactions between players. It would not give us any information.

---

The current stance of the Church is that there seems to be two main pairings that have a lot of echoing/defending of each other during D1. Dormio-Polaris and Zakeri-BT.

Of those pairs, I think Dormio/BT are the worse of them. It's a bit awkward. BT was very buddy-buddy to Zakeri. Polaris most of D1 was just echoing Dormio. Zakeri's D2 does seem to have a lot more scumhunting effort than D1, but the failed lynch hangs over him. Is it a delayed lynch due to the specific mention of 'postponed'? A full immunity? The action of a town player who dosen't want to own up? The action of a sinner who seeks to mislead the flock?

And then there is the ever-unhelpful PX to consider.

A part of me regrets using my oneshot ability to attempt to gather information, as I could have used it to the Waffle-master instead. Who thinks the scum would no-kill for whatever reason...

---

Warning while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted

Well; Polaris gave the scumreads I wanted at least. So you can ignore that verse of my sermon.

---

Cut again.

I'm going to stay on BT for the time being because it is the twilight hours [11pm], there is no hammer anyway and I need to think.

[Polaris]

- A lot of Day 1 you seemed to be acting like Dormio's echo. Do you have any independent thoughts on people you haven't spoken about in the thread? Especially thoughts on Dormio himself.

did I ever "echo" dormio on anything other than the delurk thing? lmao

[Polaris]

lmao is, uh, singaporean for lemon

[Polaris]

this votecount is sponsored by satsuma melon

PX (2): Zakeri, BT
BT (3): Raikaria, Serela, Dormio
Zakeri (1): Kinumi
Raikaria (1): PX
Dormio (1): Polaris

end of day timer

friendly reminder that we've passed the 24 hour mark and i think we should keep the idea of wagon consolidation in the back of our heads as we continue on for the next 20 hours or so

[Serela]

I would say, oh, eimm is over (I WON YAY), now I can actually focus on THIS mafia but

tomorrow is christmas eve...

I'll do my best ;_;

[WHMZakeri]

Merci, this game is boring. I wish I were dead.

Raikaria's answer is reasonable. There's no reason to continue pursuing it without knowledge of PX's alignment.

[WHMZakeri]

i'm rereading Dormio and Polaris to review Rai's case against them, but mon en-ami Dormio is tiring to read that I'm not even past their first interaction and I had to go back and reread his posts because I missed information.

so I am specifically rereading Dormio and Polaris together and...

Polaris most of D1 was just echoing Dormio.

I am conflicted about the Zak wagon because the people currant-ly voting him are BT and Serela and you know how I feel about them `_`

Out of the potential options [46] provided in the most recent unofficial votecount [47], if a lynch on BT appeared to be impossible, the only other option that I would consider at that point would be Zakeri.
[46] Dormio, Zakeri, Serela, BT
[47] Weighing Scale 1.1

At the risk of this sounding like a "gotcha", what exactly about these two people expressing the opposite opinion at the same point in time one day one right after one another
I understand both were voting BT, but Polaris expresses he's wary of voting for me because Serela and BT were bad, while Dormio didn't care about BT voting for me and even stated he would rather lynch me over Serela.

Of course I'm not sure how Polaris and Dormio 'echoing' each other means one or both of them are scum in the first place. Even if they were, one could just be latching onto the other's opinion, and as I was reading them in tandem it felt more and more like they were coming to their conclusions individually. This game my town reading of Polaris a much stronger feeling and also even caused me to lean town on Dormio as well.

I should also go back and reread BT but I'm running out of patience and honestly a big part of why I'm discarding the option is because Raikaria's case consists entirely of scumbuddy theories that I know are false. I really just want to hit Raikaria over the head with a baguette.

Also I just now realized other people are voting BT, probably for reasons, but those people are Serela and Dormio so I never bothered to read them~

[WHMZakeri]

Mon Cheri Selery~
"It really just looks like [BT] going, Oh Hey, People Suspect Dormio, Let's Quickwagon Him Now That Zak Claimed."
This is actually a good point.


As for M'anemone Dormio...
"17 paragraphs about how BT spent day one sheeping SB"
Alright. I liked the point better when Serela made it (mostly because I didn't have to read 17 paragraphs, and because he also added a second thing afterward to his case that I quoted above)

As much of a waste of time reading (and writing must have been) Dormio's case on BT was, I am getting a slightly stronger town vibe from it as well.

As for BT himself, the cases alone aren't enough to convince me to vote him over PX. Or Raikaria for that matter.

[BT]

@mod: you may want to consider a rain check on today's surgery, people probably prefer to spend time with their families tonight instead of angrily typing at strangers on the internet.

[BT]

I think the argument that I jumped on a dormio quickwagon sounds more credible than it actually is. I mean. I had suspicions about Dormio. I wanted a different Lynch after Zak's claim. People were entertaining the idea. I think I'm the first person who switched votes too? Serela makes it sound way worse than it actually was. First aid kit.

[kinumi]

I'm sorry, I've been busy today.  I'll post in a couple of hours.

I love you all ♥️

[Raikaria]

I would concurr with BT's request.

I am currently pulling up the good books. I wish to specifically re-read my 4 primary suspects of sin [PX discounted as there isn't really anything to read] so I can re-evaluate based on D2 play, as I alluded to at before I went to sleep. This may take some time.

Patience is a virtue, after all.

[Raikaria]

After reading through again, I would like to ask Dormio for something.

Dormio, I cannot help but notice you being significantly quieter on this second holy day, and most of what you have said is merely pushing upon BT, who is your counterwagon.

Can you please share with the congregation your opinions on other topics of the day? Such as the result of Day 1; PX in general, and even myself. I would like to know your other opinions regarding these. I would also; while not asking you to claim, like to ask if there was a specific reason you were so vehemently against claiming towards the end of Day 1.

I am going to look at SB's interactions and interactions towards SB now. Continue the confessionals.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I wish all players, as defined by Article 1 [10], a festive season's greetings.
I will state in advance that I may [64] not be around for the second Day Phase's end due to it occurring midday on Christmas.

The following segment of this post is designed to discuss BT's responses [65a] [65b] to my earlier post [66].
With regards to the post about scapegoating [65b], I will cede this point upon further review. However, this does not have enough of an impact to change my overall opinion as of yet.
In particular, I find BT's flexibility with regards to myself [67] [68] to be of concern. BT mentioned it in an earlier post [63] as well about how he had an initial town read on myself due to some of the posts (citation needed) I made during the first Day Phase.
To me, this behavior that BT shows appears to be a guarantee of sorts so that he can have an easy method of jumping off my wagon if it were to not work out. Combine this with the fact that a large portion of BT's case against me was borrowed from SB and this could be indicative of a history of criminal activity.

The remainder of this post is designed to elucidate my opinions on some of the other events that have occurred within this game.
The first of these events that I will address is the fact that PX made a post with actual opinions [69]. Most of the opinions given within this post [69] are quite reasonable, which leads into my next topic of discussion.

Assuming that Raikaria is not taking refuge in audacity, I find it difficult to convince myself that Raikaria's opinions mirror that of a criminal. I believe Raikaria to be an enthusiastic, if somewhat misguided, player within this game.
I am of the opinion that, were Raikaria to be a criminal, he would be less inclined to continue following through with his flawed line of reasoning when facing the heavy opposition as he is now. Of course, this is simply speculation on my part, but speculation is all I have to work with now.

In addendum, I will make a formal note here that the ActionDan/kinumi slot has contributed nothing towards the continuation of the game state for almost two Day Phases now.
##DeLurk kinumi
Please note that with 8 players in play, as defined by Article 1 [10], it will still take FIVE (5) players to successfully DeLurk someone.


[10] Persons registered for a forum account at the domain "shrinemaiden.org" and its associated domains have the right to become a "Player" in the game "Mafia of the Kaleidoscope" hosted by Bardiche, hereafter referred to as "Moderator." All following articles apply to all persons who have become "Players" in the game, by submitting a registration accepted by the Moderator, unless otherwise determined by the "Role PM", containing all relevant role information.
[30] 6. ##DeLurk: [player] in case someone's been lurking too much. Once ##DeLurk'd by 50%+1 of the living players, a player is up for Mod Kill at the end of the Day Phase. This Mod Kill does not replace the Lynch, and can only be stopped by ##Amnesty by DeLurking players. Example:
[63] Look, I started coming around to the Dormio Lynch when SB mentioned that he's been voting me for 24 hours for pretty assumptuous reasons without updating the vote. Before that point I actually leaned town on the guy.
[64] Read: Will
[65a] I'll answer your request first:
[65b] You got hung up on that post to conjure an entire story about me shifting blame, where that's the only place I did something you could mistake as shifting blame. And mistake you did.
[66] Now that formalities are out of the way, I shall append the following to my post:
[67] The second thing I noticed is the weird back-and-forth on Dormio like he felt like he had to comment on him even though no one else got that wishy washy treatment? It might just be my tunnelvision (it's definitely my tunnelvision) but it makes me think PX is scum with Dormio.
[68] 6,7. My vote is still on PX and honestly I'm not sure I want to switch to Dormio, it's like, I still remember some D1 dormio posts which made me think he's town despite his fiction about me being mafia. I still think PX was conveniently there to lynch the oneshot rolecop (only for a town governor to thwart that). I still want to get to the bottom of this slot. PX it is.
[69] Zakeri's claim, I'm feeling 50/50 about if it's true or not. Zak flipping scum would indict BT but I'm not feeling BT being scum so instead I'll point my vote towards who I think is misleading people the most ##Vote: Raikaria

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Acting in accordance with rule 11 [21], this post has been created to append the following image to the prior post as well as wish everyone a merry Christmas:



[21] 11. Don't edit your posts.

[Raikaria]

Season's Greetings everyone. Do not forget the true meaning of this holiday.

I decided to look over the documents left by SB; as his soul as ascended with the angels, so see if there were any useful or noteworthy interactions, any sort of information that could be pulled from it and interactions around him.

I'll also include anything interesting concerning BT/Zakeri/Dormio/Polaris from my re-read here, just to save yourselves four different sermons.

1: Actiondan and BT both vote for SB early. However, I believe these votes to both be part of fooling around and getting to know everyone early in the day. BT also unvotes rather swiftly. SB votes for Serela; which is useless information as Serela is Town.

2: Dormio votes BT for his vote on BT. As I previously said; I belive that BT's vote would fall under RVS.

3: BT's post here is interesting because it completely defies my primary focus on BT; that was Late Day 1. Here he actually presses on Zakeri. Notably abscent is any sort of direction at Dormio; despite the man of the Law Books just voting for him. Eventually BT settles on a lynch on Zakeri; for lurker reasons. Dormio's following post is one of the ones which gave me a good impression of him D1.

4: Dormio immediately after pushes on SB.

5: BT immediately after makes accusations of Dormio which were not true. I point this out on Page 114 of the Good Book. I feel this is a misrep attempt on BT from Dormio.

6: SB expresses a sinner-read on PX, for similar reasons for why I disliked PX during Day 1. The fact this opinion is from a confirmed townie; and that the critism towards PX from SB was on a vote for the condemnation of the Townie Serela, dosen't look good in hindsight. 2 Townies [Myself and SB] both picked up on the same thing regarding a vote on a confimed Townie [Serela]. Admittedly I vote for Serela later in Day 1 as well, so PX might just be making a mistake, but that dosen't clear his unhelpfulness. SB also notably predicts PX/Dormio.

7: Dormio attempts to Delurk; which I belive is an anti-town action. He is also still doing this.

8: Dormio's rebuttal to SB's accusation that Dormio isn't making a case Is effectively to say there is no case to be made because PX is a lurker. Just sitting on a lurker lynch isn't really helping.

9: Zakeri expresses a distaste for an SB lynch in 141. In #144 Zakeri is pro-Selela

10: Re-reading I'm at Page 5 and I'm unsure where exactly my Dormio-Polly echoing came from. Polly points out that Dormio has been parked on BT most of the day.

11: Polly basically rages at myself for my completely correct assertion that Actiondan should be receiving a Delurk vote as well as PX. Dormio says my point is valid and Delurks Actiondan. This is a point against an Actiondan/Dormio team and something that may indicate Polaris/Actiondan.

12: BT starts pressureing me in #158 for 'spreading my vote'. Oddly he didn't do this immediately after my voteswitch. BT in #161 seems rather concerning in terms of an appeal to Dormio. BT also starts really pushing for a Zakeri lynch at this point. Interestingly; this is with no major wagon; only with BT;  Serela and Zakeri all at 2 votes. SB also expresses distaste at a Zakeri lynch.

Assumeing BT did not want himself lynched, this means BT was set against a Serela lynch; and Serela is Town.

13: SB is one of the first people to vote Zakeri

14: Dormio responds by voting SB. Notably Dormio has been sitting on BT most of the day but swiftly responds to SB voting Zakeri.

15: Dormio jumps onto BT as soon as Zakeri claims one-shot rolecop.

16: SB states distaste in Dormio's #131, and general posting.

17: BT switches from Zakeri to Dormio based on claim. He makes a specific point of saying

Rolecop, right? So, role, not allegiance.

18: As much as I find Meta-comments distasteful; I cannot deny that they are part of the holy scripture. And BT's 211 is quite an interesting point

19: BT gets really aggressive towards me for voting Zakeri. Hilariously enough I'd stated BT was my secondary vote.

20: Polaris is pushing Dormio's wagon towards the end. Seriously... where did I get Polaris/Dormio I can't see it now.

21: Dormio refuses to claim point-blank; despite 4-4.

I've already spoken about interactions today.

So; on re-reading Day 1; combined with events today, and combined with information that we did not have yesterday and the holy powers of hindsight, I have come to a new conclusion. While there are certainly misgivings towards other players, based on interactions regarding SB and Serela [Two townies], I must say that Dormio looks significantly more sinful than he did to me yesterday.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio

Praise the Lord; and praise be to anyone who suffered through my recap.

[Raikaria]

2: Dormio votes BT for his vote on BT. As I previously said; I belive that BT's vote would fall under RVS.

Vote on PX; not BT.

Also for those of you who wish for a condensed version of the Bible:

Dormio votes and parks on BT for the majority of D1 for what amounts to RVS

Dormio seems to misrep BT in #108 [I press on this in #114]

Dormio's voteswitch after Zakeri's claim is FAR too fast to actually be in response to Zakeri's claim.

Dormio's generally had negative interactions with SB; who's flipped town.

[kinumi]

##unvote ##vote:PX

PX's vote on raikaria feels like it was made to suit the narrative. Post 319  talks about Raikaria having scum intent in the way he talks about his role + his read on Polaris, but there's nothing in that post that suggests that PX thinks that Polaris is town?  It feels like PX focused on scumreading raikaria by arguing semantics about their actions instead of figuring out if rai's case has a lead, which seems very agenda heavy for town. Also, he says that BT is town but never explains it,  isn't that an easy car to fake by the bad guys then, on raikaria?

I don't feel like voting BT because of the supposed slip which doesn't sway me.

I love you all and I hope we get this right today!  I wish conq was here to help me play this game, he's so cute!  ♥️

[Bardiche]

Christmas Eve be upon us, so I'll end the Day a little late, I expect. Afterwards, Night 2 will be extended so Christmas is spent doing other things than argue with friends on the internet.

Once the timer hits 0, please end play! And sorry folks, I wish I'd had the foresight to come up with a better solution for the Holidays. :s

[kinumi]

Isn't zakeri/PX a possible team?  Why is there more  support for a zakeri/BT team?  And also why is zakeri a bad lynch today? I remember reading SB bring out a zak/PX team towards the end of d1,so maybe he had a lead there.

Haven't read much on dormio but I feel like their cases have given me null vibes the entire time. 

If we can't get anywhere we question more till we get somewhere!