League of Legends Thread XVI -Double International Salt Mine Edition-

[Ryuu]

TSM's problems--and really, most of NA's problems--are so largely focused around the coaching staff tho

the players have shown a lot of times over the years that NA is capable of breeding talent capable of standing on the world stage(look at how many compliments world class top laners give dyrus, madlife has praised doublelift on multiple occasions, etc.) but our coaches and support staff frankly suck.

in regards to TSM, any novice analyst could have seen the problems they would have at MSI. a lot of the coming teams had carry style top laners, and it's been a well known problem for Literally Years that TSM tends to fold if you camp dyrus hard enough. and yet, with all this time they had to fix that issue, and with all the knowledge of the super strong top laners coming into the tournament, they had literally no top lane centric strats prepared.

this just really screams coaching and staff issues over player issues. people can shittalk the players all they want, but the fact remains that the lack of preparation and lack of confidence playing towards top from tsm means that there was an error in coaching and not enough time was dedicated to countering the one style that has been known to beat tsm for Literal Years.

part of this issue, tho, is that NA just doesn't have a good esports infrastructure yet. imo it's not that korea is just popping out babies inherently better at video games than NA so much as that they're a decade ahead of us in developing esports infrastructure. they have very experienced coaches and analysts for esports specifically, esports is an acceptable career there so their solo queue and 5s ladders are much, much more competitive than NA or EU. so of course other regions are going to import korean players at the moment, since just the environment there breeds talent so to speak, but as long as league and esports doesn't fall off in the next couple of years, NA and EU will catch up. you can literally see the skill disparity getting smaller and smaller every year, too. when we have esports infrastructure as good as korea, you'll start seeing more and more korean-tier players coming natively from NA and EU

Also why on earth did TSM pick Bard.

it was pretty much a "fuck it, hail mary" pick

[Bardiche]

i've been saying all season that tsm can wreck NA with their bjerg focused strategies, but they can't win world stages while throwing dyrus under the bus every game


oh boy look what happened

Someone was holding up a sign saying "leave Dyrus alone".

;_; Poor Dyrus. Bullied every time.

[Raikaria]

Damn Fnatic took the #1 Korean team to 3-2.

[NekoNekoRex]

Ridiculous game. Our bot lane (Jinx and Nid) d/c'd five minutes in, pretty much throwing our chances of winning into the toilet. We tried unsucessfully to gank multiple times to stay in at least a non-shitty position but they'd get 2 up on us every time and gank us, and bot lane had zero problem pushing to our inhibitor.

I actually called surrender at 22 because I was just planning on giving up and going to bed, but teemo refused our vote and we balked and kept going. They managed to fail to push all the way in, mostly because Zed and Nunu fucked around while mid/bot pushed.

Then our botlane came back, and pretty much surprised everyone because things began to swing in our favor despite us being massively behind. Maybe it's because I was actually well-farmed and had stacked huge HP (making me a bruiser in the process because op W) and became utterly unkillable, maybe it's because our botlaners were actually really skilled (or not, they're bronze), or maybe their carry just had an utterly shitty build, or maybe it was the sick Viegar carry after he successfully split-pushed solo for 8 minutes and got huge farm, but we pretty much came from behind and destroyed them against all odds.

Valuable lesson that you shouldn't surrender so easily, I guess.

[theshirn]

Had a game like that one where the enemy Graves had 6 kills by 12 minutes on the duo botlane.  Thankfully, our toplane, despite being a dick, did really well, and despite our Cait being a complete asshole even when we were turning things around, we still won.

[Bardiche]

I always feared Katarina as an ungodly mid who could win teamfights with her continuous deleting.

Then I fought her as Anivia, and deleted her in an R E Q E combo.

Life is good when you're a bird.

EDIT: Ekko info up jfyi

[Raikaria]

I looked at Ekko's kit and said melee ADC.

I heard his quotes and he's actually AP [Quotes for Lichbane; Nashors; Deathcap...]. So... he's a melee AP Assassin with a heavy focus on autoattacking.

So he's Diana who trades Diana's durability for actually being able to get out. Both are after all AP assassins with a heavy autoattack focus who don't instantly burst you in MOST situations. [Ekko because he gets to jump back out; Diana because she is tanky]

Either that or I compare him to a melee Kayle. Not sure which comparison is the most appropriate.

[Mr. Sacchi]

If you actually look at his kit you'll see that everything has some wonky AP scalings.

Also wtf dude Diana can burst people down pretty fucking hard when played as an assassin. Heck one Diana went as far as dealing over 2k damage to me in like 1.6 seconds once, she wasn't even fed

[Raikaria]

If you actually look at his kit you'll see that everything has some wonky AP scalings.

Also wtf dude Diana can burst people down pretty fucking hard when played as an assassin. Heck one Diana went as far as dealing over 2k damage to me in like 1.6 seconds once, she wasn't even fed

2k damage in a rotation as an assassin is low for an assassin.

Zed can get his full rotation off in less than a second and get out; while dealing more damage than Diana. Same with LeBlanc. Ahri doesn't even need to go in in the first place; let alone worry about getting out.

Diana is far more reminiscent of a fighter, and there is no way that her burst combo is even getting near 2k without significant items [Lichbane] and levels [Her base damages are quite low]. Honestly when I play Diana; which is more often top or jungle than mid; I play her like a fighter, not an assassin, and use her Q-R-E to initiate fights with what is basically an Orianna ultimate followed by Dissonance; complete with Dissonance damage if you put Pale Cascade up.

And her highest base damage and AP ratio are both on her passive. [250 base damage lv 18; 80% ratio; compared to 200/70; 210/60 and 220/60]. Diana's primary damage comes from this, and her main burst is getting passive ready; R'ing in and proccing passive. Especially if she's got Lichbane.

[Ryuu]

something tells me that you haven't watched the recent competitive diana games

[Garlyle]

You're not necessarily wrong in that Diana can be a really powerful sustained brawler as opposed to just a burst assassin, but she's capable of being the latter as well.

Speaking of which I'm hella intrigued by that new Abyssal Scepter.  but not half as much as Ekko he's damn cute help

[Aba Matindesu!]

link dropping the mixtapes on clg, especially doublelift

oh baby

[Raikaria]

link dropping the mixtapes on clg, especially doublelift

oh baby

Best part is CLG's announcement aboput him leaving made it seem like it was on amicable terms and he left of his own violation.

You don't drop a 17-page trashtalk on your team failing that soon after leaving unless you were either pushed or outright fired.

Oh and of course Doublelift has shot back on Facebook. Get your popcorn guys.

[Mr. Sacchi]

2k damage in a rotation as an assassin is low for an assassin.

Because squishies often have more than 2k health, right guys?

And using Zed, the guy who makes any squishy go splat(especially when his ult is up), as the basis for assassin damage is quite stupid tbh, especially when we're talking AD VS AP (Which have completely different itemizations)

I love playing Bruiser!Diana a lot more than I love playing Assassin!Diana, but to say that she's "better as" a bruiser when bruiser Diana is almost considered a troll build at this point is frankly absurd. Especially when she was built to be an assassin and works just as well if not better as one.

[Raikaria]

Because squishies often have more than 2k health, right guys?

And using Zed, the guy who makes any squishy go splat(especially when his ult is up), as the basis for assassin damage is quite stupid tbh, especially when we're talking AD VS AP (Which have completely different itemizations)

I love playing Bruiser!Diana a lot more than I love playing Assassin!Diana, but to say that she's "better as" a bruiser when bruiser Diana is almost considered a troll build at this point is frankly absurd. Especially when she was built to be an assassin and works just as well if not better as one.

They do often have over 2k effective HP due to MR. And that's before you consider any shielding or heals or HP boosts [Lulu Ult]. Or even Lifesteal. Diana's base damage from her abilities at Lv 16 is 850. That is very low for an assassin; especially a melee one. It's hard to judge say Zed because of his ult mechanics; but assumeing a Q mimic and Q/W max; Lv 16 LeBlanc's base damage burst is 1,325. That's more than 150% of Diana's damage. And this is assumeing every tick of Pale Casade actually hits the intended target and isn't detonated by someone else while it's not in range. [Diana is surrounded often]

And she's ranged. And can get out. And isn't COMPLETELY reliant on landing a skillshot [Even if she misses E she still otudamages Diana]. And has far higher AP ratios. And keeps growing in terms of her ability damage after Lv 16.

I have more personal success with a more Bruiser Diana. Not like full tank. I mean Zhonya's Abyssal Nashors; maybe getting a Glory if I'm initiating. I don't build glass cannon for pure burst; I generally initiate on Diana and want to stay in the fight longer than 3 seconds... counting the 2.5 second invun of Hourglass. As a pure assassin Diana is completely outclassed. This is why I say Diana is better being played as a Bruiser than an Assassin. You want to go in, use your innate durability to soak some damage; while using your passive to deal good sustained damage, and using Hourglass to buy you time for a 2nd Pale Cascade/drop aggro on you.

And PBE Abyssal will really help with this playstyle; letting Diana shred MR for her team the longer she lives in the middle of a fight; while also giving her MR and now HP. Which is another reason to consider running a double AP style with Diana in the Jungle/Toplane as a Bruiser rather than a pure assassin. New Abyssal shreds up to 30% of everyone's MR, instead of being a flat reduction aura.

[Ryuu]

They do often have over 2k effective HP due to MR.

this is mathematically incorrect due to mpen/arpen items

using the term "squishy" to mean "ADC, mages, assassins, or anyone else who typically builds pure glass cannon with typically one defensive item(ie zhonyas, GA, QSS, etc.)", the highest base health squishy is currently master yi with 2162.6. next in line is kayle with 2155.2, and then fiora with 2037.8

after that, a few inch out above 2k, while the rest fall singificantly lower

so, ignoring resistances(which you generally do with squishy calculations b/c they don't buy any and the assassin buys penetration eventually), diana has the capability to 100-0 most squishy targets from full hp if uncontested at level 18. those she can't are a 100-1 instead of 0, meaning an extra auto or any errant damage from someone else is enough to finish the job. also to consider, diana has the capability of doing all of this almost instantly while other assassins have mechanics to force them to wait for their full damage rotation. akali has 3 dash charges, zed has to wait for his ult to pop, fizz has to wait for shark, etc. diana only has to wait for her W to pop, which is significantly shorter

and also irrelevant, considering all she needs is QRPassive auto for most people in a realistic setting. this is something you would know if you had actually watched any of the recent competitive diana games

[Mr. Sacchi]

And pretty much none of that takes Lich Bane into account, which also makes her damage kind of skyrocket and should be bought in any assassin diana build anyway.

[Suikama]

so i started actually playing again

i missed you sona (◡‿◡✿)

[チソウ タイゼン]

i am so fulfilled right now

[NekoNekoRex]

I got lux and bought the sorcerer skin just so I could play as Marisa in lol

I'm not even good at Mages

EDIT: Oh man the Star Guardian Lux skin is tempting to buy too but then I'd be so indecisive between which two to use, agh
I don't play Lux that much but oh man

[Bardiche]

I'm not even good at Mages

Came into this game playing Veigar, then moving on to Kennen, then to Anivia, and I have most fun playing jungle Evelynn. I still spend most of my IP on new mages. EDIT: Technically I guess Eve can count as a Mage.

[Suikama]

S rank BV

at one point in the game I was 4/0/20 :V

[Bardiche]

I've gone 16/0/3 Evelynn and still only S- rank. 8(

[チソウ タイゼン]

Shoot for S+!

[Cadmas]

Gotta step up that minion game http://puu.sh/hSpUU/4009072d01.jpg

[NekoNekoRex]

I wish I wasn't consistently the only one on my team to upgrade my trinket despite telling my team multiple times to upgrade theirs
#EloHell #BronzeWoes

[Silent Harmony]

To be fair, it probably doesn't matter whether or not they upgrade them because if they're like me they will just flat-out forget to activate them past the 5 minute mark.  :V

[NekoNekoRex]

Ugh so many games lost to lack of wards in a row

and the one game that people actually warded on, we lost because the other team was more skilled

League is pain

[Bardiche]

#EloHell #BronzeWoes

But you're level 27 and Unranked. :V

[NekoNekoRex]

Might as well be bronze-level games though