Author Topic: Spellcard Help Topic  (Read 158867 times)

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2009, 11:48:23 PM »
Three cards I have immense troubles with that haven't been mentioned yet:

Ghost Clifford ("the white Prismriver sister", Hard/Lunatic)
Spin the Celiphic(?) Plate (MoF, Nitori's third card, Lunatic)
Mose's Miracle (Sanae, Hard/Lunatic)

The last one seems to be so easy until Sanae says LOL TRAP YOU WITH BULLET WALL and it becomes bomb or die.
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2009, 06:49:45 AM »
Maybe it's a little too late but...
The easy mode version. Pretty much impossible. You're probably better off bombing it, but there is a technique to it. I think.
By moving really fast you can create a small gap (wich is really small but still crossable) that you should be able to cross when focused.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2009, 06:58:52 AM »
Think I'll just stick with bombing it to be honest, saves a lot more time  :-X

Anyone know any tips for [Normal] Border of Wave and Particle?

hiddenryuu

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2009, 07:48:18 AM »
well besides using the lame dead zone?

I usually try to put my eyes further up the screen that way I can the bullets earlier and react to it, if your eyes are too low , you often don't have time to react.

Then it's just a question of when to unfocus and do a big swing around.

Krimmydoodle

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2009, 08:43:49 AM »
Spin the Celiphic(?) Plate (MoF, Nitori's third card, Lunatic)

If you're a Reimu B player, watch my replay. http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=2775

This is the most reliable way I've been able to capture Cephalic Plate.  Damage Nitori as much as possible before she starts firing the aimed pellets.  Fly over to the corner when she starts pellet spamming, and stream in the other direction.  Always make sure that you're just to the left of her when you're damaging her, as she'll follow you around, and you want her to continue moving left (or right, if you start from the left corner) so you can keep damaging her.  Keep streaming and ignore the pellet spam, and read the holes in the circles.  If you do it right, the card will be done before you have to turn around.

Unless you play a non Reimu B character, then this probably won't work.  Reimu A and C lack the raw firepower needed to end the card quickly.  Marisa A, actually, I don't remember how strong Marisa A is, and she may or may not be able to do it.  Marisa B, if you were using her, you wouldn't be asking for help. :P  Marisa C requires shotgunning, which is a bad idea on Cephalic plate.
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2009, 11:37:44 AM »
For Non Reimu/MarisaB (both bugged and unbugged MarisaB by the way), you proceed to stream like in Krim's replay (that is, start from the right).

From the moment you move through the 2nd wave of spinning bullets cucumbers, you should be around the center of the screen (bit to the right still, maybe).  Move to the other side of the screen (diagonally, and up about 1/3 the screen), and weave through the 4th wave of pellets from there.

After that, you repeat the same cycle, only from the other side. If you moved properly (the directions I gave are somewhat vague at this point), the number of extremely small bullets that will be a threat in the next wave will be negligible (so in other words, you won't get walled).

The Spell Card should end sometime during the 2nd cycle. If not, repeat the same procedure. It should work. However, since I primary as ReimuA, I've never seen the Spell Card go for longer than that.

...too lazy to make a replay. MS took too much effort. I might early tomorrow morning or something though.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 11:59:11 AM by BaitySM »
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2009, 11:43:42 AM »
well besides using the lame dead zone?

I usually try to put my eyes further up the screen that way I can the bullets earlier and react to it, if your eyes are too low , you often don't have time to react.

Then it's just a question of when to unfocus and do a big swing around.


Lame dead zone?

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2009, 11:51:43 AM »

Lame dead zone?


Like that. Right below Satori. It's basically cheating though. Maximum requirement of 1 bomb -> free pass

...I do believe I'm the first person to pull it off on Hard mode without destroying the bonus.

EDIT: fix in the previous pots post =x

EDIT 2: there's something wrong with my typing this evening...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 12:04:21 PM by BaitySM »
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2009, 12:04:54 PM »
Oh right, like hoving just outside the bosses hitbox but inside the bullets?

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2009, 12:09:27 PM »
Oh right, like hoving just outside the bosses hitbox but inside the bullets?
Yep.
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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theshirn

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2009, 08:07:41 PM »
Ghost Clifford ("the white Prismriver sister", Hard/Lunatic)
OH FOR THE LOVE OF ---

COME ON, PEOPLE!

Ghost Clifford, even on Lunatic, I find easier than Hino Phantasm, the Normal card.  Start a little over to the left, stream across, dodge up to open an avenue and then stream right back across.  Shouldn't take more than one across in each direction.

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2009, 08:58:44 PM »
I'm surprised no one mentioned that BoWaP is pretty much completely static.  Once you practice it a bit, it's pretty capturable just with occasional taps to the side.  The pattern itself is quite a short and simple one that just endlessly loops; I micromemorized it after about 15-18 attempts or so, and I can pretty much time it out now without much trouble at all. 

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2009, 09:04:19 PM »
FALLING LEAVES OF MADNESS

WHAT

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2009, 10:27:35 PM »
FALLING LEAVES OF MADNESS

WHAT
Midboss?
Or 2nd boss Spell Card?

Got the Midboss one. Timed out the 2nd boss Spell Card after 1 silly death (I thought the laser wouldn't spawn that fast  ;_;).

For the Midboss one, it's a matter of staying as close as you can. It's much safer attempting to move up than moving back to read some more. Otherwise, you get boxed like I did for those last 2 seconds  >_>

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3472

And ignore the stupid death on the 1st Spell Card. It was from trying to stand underneath as long as I could.

Too lazy to fetch names of the Spell Card too. Oh, and I'm very busy at the moment.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 10:30:52 PM by BaitySM »
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nintendonut888

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2009, 10:32:17 PM »
I'm surprised no one mentioned that BoWaP is pretty much completely static.  Once you practice it a bit, it's pretty capturable just with occasional taps to the side.  The pattern itself is quite a short and simple one that just endlessly loops; I micromemorized it after about 15-18 attempts or so, and I can pretty much time it out now without much trouble at all.

Really? I always find a point where it goes into "wave" mode and I have to move around to dodge it. Every time I get hammered before I can get my rhythm back...
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[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2009, 11:55:24 PM »
That dense wave can be micrododged easily by using a trick.  The gaps in that wave are parallel with each other as well as the wave that precides it, so if you position yourself right during the first wave then you can just sit still while the entire dense part flies past you.  Kind of hard to describe it, but it's not too hard to pull off.

theshirn

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2009, 12:13:45 AM »
Midboss?
Or 2nd boss Spell Card?

Got the Midboss one. Timed out the 2nd boss Spell Card after 1 silly death (I thought the laser wouldn't spawn that fast  ;_;).

For the Midboss one, it's a matter of staying as close as you can. It's much safer attempting to move up than moving back to read some more. Otherwise, you get boxed like I did for those last 2 seconds  >_>

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3472

And ignore the stupid death on the 1st Spell Card. It was from trying to stand underneath as long as I could.

Too lazy to fetch names of the Spell Card too. Oh, and I'm very busy at the moment.
Midboss card.  It's not that I can't capture it, it's that it's WTF luck-based and dense for a Stage 1 midboss card, even for Lunatic.  Seriously.

That post probably should have been in the RAGE thread, but I guess I was asking if there's any trick to it, or if it's simply as stupid as it seems.  I guess it is.

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

Kanako Yasaka

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2009, 12:44:45 AM »
Okay, stuff from PCB extra. I'm so fucking close to beating this it's not even funny.

Charming Siege From All Sides- WTF? I know there's a way to direct the light blue bullets but I can't seem to do it.

Unilateral Contact- Ugh, what's the best way to cheat this card? I'm not even going to try it.

Kokkuri-san's Contract- I can't get past here. I always get eaten alive since I can't ever seem to time it correctly. Is there a specific way to dodge the bullets?

nintendonut888

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #78 on: June 01, 2009, 12:46:03 AM »
That dense wave can be micrododged easily by using a trick.  The gaps in that wave are parallel with each other as well as the wave that precides it, so if you position yourself right during the first wave then you can just sit still while the entire dense part flies past you.  Kind of hard to describe it, but it's not too hard to pull off.

Thank you lots. ^_^ Somehow just hearing that you're supposed to stay still made it simple.

Also, I've said this before, but DAMN! Knowing that you can slow down your focus movement by holding down+left/down+right at the bottom the screen would have REALLY been handy for things like Satori's non-cards and Terrifying Hypnotism.

EDIT: Kokkuri-san's Contract relies on one thing to be successful: Ignore the cage. Focus your eyes on the moving bullets, and move through them as quickly as possible. Focusing on where the cage is will just mess you up. As for the last part, bomb. It's not worth it.
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[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2009, 03:51:16 PM »
Charming Siege From All Sides- WTF? I know there's a way to direct the light blue bullets but I can't seem to do it.

I'm pretty sure that there isn't one, at least I've never seen it. Either way, the light blue bullets are the main hazard, the big red ones just a distraction. Look at the road ahead, see where you need to go next and move to take advantage of gaps in the pattern that you see. That being said, I think this is Ran's hardest card by a mile.

Quote
Unilateral Contact- Ugh, what's the best way to cheat this card? I'm not even going to try it.

Ran fires out the randoms, then fires some aimed bullets. Dodge them and fly up, staying right next to her. The bullets fly around the outside, then just as they're about to shoot out, get some distance between Ran and your character, then outrun the new bullets. Repeat. Yes, even Reimu can outrun the bullets if you get enough distance and time it right.

Quote
Kokkuri-san's Contract- I can't get past here. I always get eaten alive since I can't ever seem to time it correctly. Is there a specific way to dodge the bullets?

Kind of. Watch my replay: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=2897

I bomb last two seconds of Contract because the bonus was worth less than a life, and it was the first, last and only time I've managed to get the 800 item life. Still, the replay shows what to do up til that point.
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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2009, 07:49:09 PM »
Okay, stuff from PCB extra. I'm so fucking close to beating this it's not even funny.

Charming Siege From All Sides- WTF? I know there's a way to direct the light blue bullets but I can't seem to do it.

Unilateral Contact- Ugh, what's the best way to cheat this card? I'm not even going to try it.

Kokkuri-san's Contract- I can't get past here. I always get eaten alive since I can't ever seem to time it correctly. Is there a specific way to dodge the bullets?

I don't think you can manipulate the position of the blue bullets at all. I find it to be easier however if you stay at least mid way or above towards ran than at the bottom. Otherwise your "square" might move down further and you might end up with little more than a little tip to dodge around in. Very bad.

Unilateral contact is a bit tough for me too. One thing I've learned though on the phantasm stage (should work for ran too though), is assuming you got supernatural barrier when this phase started, dodge the initial bullets. And just when the timer on the barrier is about to run out (should be like 1 second before he shoots the 2nd wave of bullets). It will eliminate the first bullets (which are still flying back), and eliiminate the other wave of bullets completely, and you can sit there shooting at ran as he does absolutely nothing for like 6 seconds straight. He should go down on that phase before the wave of 3 bullets start turning. Unless you're reimu A or something I guess.

I can't imagine dodging the bullets for the contract to be hard. Perhaps you're nervous too much? I mean the gaps between them are far larger than most of the gaps between bullets on even some level 1 bosses. Just remember that those particular kind of bullet's hit box is actually more like the white in the middle, not the blue edge. Also, near the end where diagonal bullets start coming out too, it's almost easier because at that point the straight bullets almost never come near you, so you just have to worry about the diagonal ones only.

That's the 2nd last phase though, so 1 more and you're done, just need a lucky run >=).

stargroup

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #81 on: June 02, 2009, 01:18:26 AM »
Wow a lot has happened since I was gone.

Alright, time for a super post. Some of these spell cards will already have hints from other people, but I feel like typing my input anyways.

SPELL CARDS YAY

EoSD Extra:

- Sun Sign "Royal Flare"
I think I posted something about this card already, but here goes.
A very stupid card because it's extremely difficult to capture without much experience, as you have to know where the open spots are and how not to get bullets to spawn on you. Either micromemorize if you're good at that kind of thing, bomb the shit out of it, or just practice it over and over again.

- Taboo "Cranberry Trap"
The first few times you play it it's a very annoying card, and similar to Royal Flare, you probably need some experience. Most people find a technique that works, and just keep using that same method over and over again. Personally, I think that's stupid and I just dodge it as I see fit, improvise. It's actually not that bad if you direct the first few bullets and just make your way around the screen.

- Taboo "Four of a Kind"
Very fun card. Pure dodging. It is highly unlikely that you'll find yourself almost trapped, but you shouldn't be staying on the very bottom anyways. This is not a hard card at all; if your skills are good, it should be a consistent capture.

- Taboo "Maze of Love"
Two ways to do this: circling around Flandre, or staying at the bottom and dodging in between the rings. Certain people will actually find it easier to dodge at the bottom, but most people circle Flandre. It's difficult at first because it's a strange angle and there is very little room for error, but once you get the hang of it, it's not too bad.

- Forbidden Barrage "Catadioptric"
Stay near the bottom right corner. This is the easiest place to stay. There's really not much to say. Avoid the large chains and dodge the debris, being careful not to hit them especially when focusing on the larger chains.

EoSD Normal:

- Conjuring "Misdirection"
Er, if we're talking about Normal, then all this card is is streaming. All the bullets are just simple homing attacks.

- Illusion Image "Luna Clock"
This one isn't that bad. The smaller bullets home on you initially, so just dodge a little to the side and all you have to worry about are the knives.

- Maid Secret Skill "Marionette"
There are two ways to do this. You can take sweeping to the extreme and dash from one side of the screen to the other, redirecting almost all of the knives, or you can just dodge the knives. I think dodging should be much easier. Just remember to move a bit to the side after the bullets change random directions, as there are some bullets that don't change direction and you'll have a wall coming toward you.

- Dark Sign "Scarlet Netherworld"
The criss-cross bullets are the trickiest part of the spell card. Just make sure the straight lines don't hit you and focus on the criss-cross. That's it, pure dodging.

- Curse "Curse of Vlad Tepes"
Make sure you are very comfortable with the massive angle acceleration. Be prepared for the curves and just dodge the bullets the knives spawn, being careful not to get trapped by a wall. Plan ahead a little.

- "Red Magic"
Learn how to dodge it and the rest is endurance.

MoF Lunatic:

- Kappa "Spin the Cephalic Plate"
Stream from one side to the other, and dash at the right time so that you don't go through the small bullets the same time you go through the rings. Repeat until complete.

- Sea Opening "Moses's Miracle"
You could memorize the order of the knife patterns, but that's a lot of work and stupid. Just dodge quickly, keeping yourself open, while maintaining focus at Sanae. Before the knives accelerate, you can see which pattern she will be using on you, so you can plan and dodge accordingly. Should be a consistent capture with the occasional "oops I trapped myself."

- Leaf Sign "Falling Leaves of Madness"
HAHA this is a fun card. Stay as close to Shizuha as possible, so you don't have to deal with the yellow curving bullets. The rest is just micro-dodging. I don't know about Marisa, but if you're using Reimu, trust in your tiny hitbox.

PCB Extra:

- Shikigami's Radiance "Charming Siege from All Sides"
This is actually much, much harder than the Phantasm version. Just pass in between each big bullet ring when you get the chance, and follow through one by one, keeping track of your horizontal position as well. The trickiest part is that streaming cyan bullets, because they curve and the room they give you is very small, so you should primarily be focusing on them, as difficult as it may be. Survive as long as possible before bombing through if necessary.

- Shikigami's Shot "Unilateral Contact"
This one is very tricky. Pure dodging. Once you learn the pattern, all you have to do is focus on the right waves at the right time, and just dodge them.

- "Kokkuri-san's Contract"
This is a hard one indeed. Since the bullets in the beginning move either vertically or horizontally, all you have to do is follow the ring and only focus on the direction you're moving in. If you're moving from side to side, block the vertical bullets out of your head and vice-versa. When you get to the ring shrinking, just dodge. Don't be intimidated by the small space at the end.

SA Normal:

- Recollection "Border of Wave and Particle"
I don't really see why anyone would need tips for this one, haha. Once again, pure dodging. This is in my opinion one of the most fun spell cards in all of Touhou. Dodge the random waves of bullets, keeping an eye on Satori. As soon as the walls start forming, get ready to dash to the side to get out of the way, and return to your original spot afterwards. The tricky part is to not get hit when you're coming back from the side. Move forward when you're coming back from the side so that you can slowly push back as the bullets approach you, giving you some time to position yourself correctly.


Whew that was a lot.

Drake

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #82 on: June 02, 2009, 05:50:52 AM »
Oh yes. Someone please explain Life Spring Infinity because I just end up bombing then deathbombing to clear it.

I'm seriously raging at how badly I've been performing in IN lately. No deaths until Stage 3, where I lose a bunch of lives and bombs to ridiculous things. Stage 4 is getting better, but I bomb on purpose at places to rid a pattern and it deathbombs because a bullet hits me somehow. Perfect Stage 5, where I get like three lives. Woohoo! Not. I proceed to lose them all to Reisen on stuff I've captured many times already. Stage 6 is frustrating. I deathbombed twice on Brilliant Dragon Bullet where I wanted to just bomb, Life Spring Infinity rage, and Hourai Elixir finishes me off even though it's fairly easy.

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #83 on: June 02, 2009, 12:49:34 PM »
Oh yes. Someone please explain Life Spring Infinity because I just end up bombing then deathbombing to clear it.

Hard or Lunatic?
Because LSI on Lunatic is BS.
Quote from Myosotis:
"Marriage is a game you can't win. Also, no replay value and the level design is bullshit.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #84 on: June 02, 2009, 01:18:00 PM »
Thanks for the help on EoSD extra guys. I think i can get a pretty good Extra run established if i can just avoid making too many stupid mistakes. After a tiny bit of practice i trivialized Royal Flare. I understand now that its very hard to describe the movements because of the complexity of the pattern. I usually do something like moving vertical only to begin with and try to get the first couple of bullets from the left to pass me. Then when the time is up for it go to the left of the screen and follow it all the way into the middle where you dodge the rest of it. Yeah... its harder to describe than it is to perform. I do it almost everytime though even if i somehow die to Silent Selene and get to it with less-than-full power.

Cranberry Trap is also pretty easy now, but i still need to work it out a bit more.

As for Four of a Kind. It seems its just about dodging and no trick but thats my favorite spellcard type so i love the hell out of that card now. I cap it almost all the time. Its the same as with Starbow Break. Lovely spells IMO.

I have capped Maze of Love twice today but i played the extra stage 6 times or so. I need to polish the strategy more.

Oh yes. Someone please explain Life Spring Infinity because I just end up bombing then deathbombing to clear it.

Hmm... i would think that just a single bomb, if timed correctly, could take down the card. I haven't played that Stage in a run at all though since my 1CC a couple of months back. I remember sitting in front of my PC, very annoyed, grinding LSI on Lunatic. 200+ attempts it took me. I just had to wait till i got lucky with it. Its truly a terrible spell. I hate Apollo 13 but at least its not bullshit to the same degree as LSI lunatic.

LSI Lunatic shoots a crapload of stars at you and you are just going to have to be lucky and make it through the very tiny gaps and avoiding crashing into Kaguya. That, or being trapped above her, caused the majority of my failures against that card. Just bomb it in your runs.

stargroup

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2009, 08:52:47 PM »
- Life Spring Infinity
This is an incredibly annoying card, and it is so freaking easy to get trapped. I hate this card.
I'd say the best bet would be to stay under Kaguya whenever possible, and find open spaces in the lasers while dodging the stars. I don't see any other tricks that can be utilized.

Ghaleon

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2009, 09:10:10 PM »
slightly off topic but not really. After beating MoF yesterday, anybody other than me feel that the bullets in that rice porridge spell have a much bigger hitbox than those kinds of bullets normally do? I get myself killed on that spell all the time thinking I'm safe when I'm not.

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #87 on: June 02, 2009, 09:34:44 PM »
slightly off topic but not really. After beating MoF yesterday, anybody other than me feel that the bullets in that rice porridge spell have a much bigger hitbox than those kinds of bullets normally do? I get myself killed on that spell all the time thinking I'm safe when I'm not.
Yep. Larger than your average bullet (its hitbox is around the exact size of the bullet; there is no leeway like with the bubble bullets and such).

For Hard, it's even worse.

---

Theorizing "Life Spring Infinity".

Looks like I've got a pattern showing up. Going to do extended theory / testing for 2 hours when I get back from the university. For the record, I got it timed down to about 35 seconds.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 10:06:23 PM by BaitySM »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

theshirn

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #88 on: June 03, 2009, 02:44:46 AM »
slightly off topic but not really. After beating MoF yesterday, anybody other than me feel that the bullets in that rice porridge spell have a much bigger hitbox than those kinds of bullets normally do? I get myself killed on that spell all the time thinking I'm safe when I'm not.
Those bullets SUCK.  They're almost as bad as Sakuya's knives.  And that card is worst on Hard, by a long shot.  The Lunatic version has blue ones, but less dense reds and greens (thank Moriya).

[09:46] <theshim|work> there is nothing like working for a real estate company to make one contemplate arson

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2009, 03:11:13 AM »
"Life Spring Eternity" timed down to 32 on Lunatic.

I've worked out exactly how it works. Except Kaguya's horrible vertical movements. It's "Apollo 13" all over again.

Going to do a writeup once I get a good timeout (or close to one).
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者