Could ZUN's child be the end for Touhou? Or taking it easy?

[Helepolis]

Most of us elderly old farts know what happens when your best friend / family member has a child. Time becomes limited. I remember my sister and I spent a lot of time practising our hobbies, until she first got married and then last year had a child. It is quite interesting to see how their entire life-style starts mutating, all to raise their child. Basically their daily life during workdays is: Work - raise child - sleep - repeat.

Since ZUN is also a human, like each of us (yes, yes he is you nuts) I'm most likely expecting either him to take it more easily with Touhou releases or perhaps put an end to it after releasing one more game.

Or perhaps he is totally unaffected by it all and can combine Touhou creating + raising child + attending wife + beer drinking all in one go?

[Espadas]

Mmhh.... up until now i didn't reflect on this but you are quite right, a child does change your lifestyle.

The most probable outcome might be that ZUN release new games at a slower pace, and focus more on main games instead of spinoffs.

I'm almost certain he won't stop because:

1) doing a job you actually like and at the pace you decide is quite a rare opportunity

2) even if he isn't short on money he will still need to work somehow and this bring us back to point 1

3) he was preparing new works and finally taking notice of the western community well before the actual birth. He is not a fool: he must have taken into account that a child will change many things.....

So my prediction is that he will "take it easy" a bit


P.S. about the "ZUN is also a human, like each of us" i have to disagree.... normal humans are composed by about 70% of water, for ZUN you have to exchanged that with 70% BEER, so no, he is NOT a normal human 

[Totaku]

I'm a man who has actually witnessed this before myself in paticular with the man that I once remembered doing a web comic.

He was from Japan and his comics were to my view something to behold. He also had a big following in North America to boot! And I ended up becoming his assistant that helped him in his forum long ago.

Course eventually he begin to fade in and out of the internet on a constant basis and ultimately he stopped appear on the internet all together. Leaving the one comic he did incomplete.

I asked my best friend (Konstantin) to see what he was doing in his life since he was going to Japan and visit him at some point.

Eventually I got my answer: He got married, he had two children, and it now completely enveloped in his life as a father.

As a result, we pretty much believe he now will be retiring from his comic as he hasn't touched his comic in over 5+ years now (to this date)

So when I look at ZUN and the fact he now has a child in his life, I now think of what changed in my friend who use to do web comics. His life completely changed over.

Of course it's only one probabilty given that we know nothing on what is being planned ATM. But I still keep this in mind because it's remotely possible that ZUN might take this route since he had a son in his life.

Though ATM, I'm undecided what ZUN will really do ATM.

The games "he makes" might have the most impact since he's now a father. The question on the other hand though are the games he works with other companies with (Tasofro) and the manga keeps tabs with the artists on (WaHH and FS) will they also be infected as well? Especially since he's  the one who comes up with the stories for these and they compose them for him and get his approval.

My feeling is we'll likely see ZUN do more backline work for a while. He's got a son in his life so he may or may not be able to do the things he once could. But it's still undecided at this time. Seems ZUN may still be going to events and the like so who knows at this time. I can only say we should keep an eye on his twitter and see how his life shifts as he continues to do his thing. He may still be productive, or he may slow down and focus more on being a dad, only time can tell.

[Abraham Lincoln]

P.S. about the "ZUN is also a human, like each of us" i have to disagree.... normal humans are composed by about 70% of water, for ZUN you have to exchanged that with 70% BEER, so no, he is NOT a normal human 

But isn't beer predominantly made up of water?

[Szayelaporro Granz]

But isn't beer predominantly made up of water?

Still, it's no longer 70% water, right?

[Tengukami]

Speaking from personal, first-hand experience with fatherhood, my answer is a firm "it depends".

If this is pretty much the only thing ZUN does as a "day job", i.e., Touhou games and related works, then I don't think it should be an issue. Especially as he is married, and has a partner to help out (although this makes me wonder: Does she work, or is she on maternity leave? What kind of maternity leave program does Japan have, for that matter?).

However, newborns are pretty much an around-the-clock job. Especially as this is their first child, I'm sure they're both going to have their hands full those first 18 months just learning how to deal with a baby. How well they handle this will depend a lot on the network of relatives around them, or even child-experienced friends who could help, babysit, offer advice.

And of course there's also the fact that kids don't come one-size-fits-all. Their son could be a colicky baby, or be defiant/destructive, or have difficulty with certain foods. These are all normal things, but it's just to say that kids can come with their own individual qualities that can make parenting more challenging.

So really, there's a lot of elements at play here when we talk about what parenthood could mean for Touhou. It depends on many different factors. But I get the feeling it'll continue to chug along - he's said himself he'd make these for his own enjoyment even if the market for them more or less dwindled to nothing - even if at a slower, or more uneven rate.

[WeirdRaptor]

Since ZUN is also a human, like each of us (yes, yes he is you nuts) I'm most likely expecting either him to take it more easily with Touhou releases or perhaps put an end to it after releasing one more game.

Or perhaps he is totally unaffected by it all and can combine Touhou creating + raising child + attending wife + beer drinking all in one go?

If worst comes to worst, I don't see why he can't just hire someone to help him make future games if time becomes more limited.

[Drake]

What kind of maternity leave program does Japan have, for that matter?).

Japan maternity leave is 14 weeks at 60% pay through social insurance: 6 weeks before birth, 8 weeks after. Child care leave then kicks in for a year maximum for each parent.

[Tengukami]

Japan maternity leave is 14 weeks at 60% pay through social insurance: 6 weeks before birth, 8 weeks after. Child care leave then kicks in for a year maximum for each parent.

That's a great system, then, giving them the support they need for that crucial first year especially. The pay cut may mean he picks up extra side projects to cover the bases, but man works from home, and like a machine. Once the first year is clear, things get a lot easier.

[Abraham Lincoln]

ZUN has left for Tokyo to continue with his job, leaving his wife and ZUN jr. alone at their hometown. Seems like he has gotten everything under control...

[Imosa]

People are talking about the money he makes on Touhou games but I always thought Touhou had a pretty negligible profit. Is this not the case?

[Romantique Tp]

The games sell well + music CD sales + manga sales + licenses

Plus the games cost very little to make. Every 15 months or so he spends $250 to upgrade Cubase, $200~$400 on one or two new VST instruments, prolly less than $500 on computer upgrades and then there's the cost of printing and distributing the games which I have no idea but it's prolly not a lot. IIRC monthly minimum wage in Tokyo was like $2000.

ZUN made around $90000~$98000 from selling Double Spoiler at Reitaisai 7 alone.

[Espadas]

- does something he loves for work
- no one bother him on HOW to do his work, and no boss to answer to
- gain more than enough for sustain his family and any whim they might have
- got married and now became a father
- pass half his time drinking and loving every second of it
- has a fanbase modern rockbands would sell their souls to achieve


...... please refresh my memory: why being a drinking nerd is considered a bad thing?  :V

[cuc]

The costs should also include Photoshop and graphics libraries. In any case, the development cost of a one-man studio is extremely low, a fact he likes to emphasize.

Touhou is very profitable for ZUN. There are likely a few hundred thousand Touhou fans in Japan. Even if only some of them actually buy official Touhou games, it should still add up to some enviable sales numbers. The example Not Bigode used was Double Spoiler, and that's a high-difficulty spinoff. StB and DS sold a lot worse than the mainline games.

Re: licenses, my current guess is that ZUN doesn't charge license fees for using Touhou in corporate products, he only grants a permission to do so. I could be wrong.


About the topic of the thread, throughout 2013 ZUN has repeated said in interviews that Touhou has become inseparable with his life. He said that at Atlanta; heck, his interview for NicoNico is even titled "Touhou Has Become My Life's Work".

What I'm putting my hope on is for the father experience to change him, to make him an even better person than he has been.

[N-Forza]

And what with youthful innocence and wonder being central themes in his work (the music in particular), it might even give him some more inspiration.

[Failure McFailFace]

$250 to upgrade Cubase, $200~$400 on one or two new VST instruments, prolly less than $500 on computer upgrades and then there's the cost of printing and distributing the games which I have no idea but it's prolly not a lot. IIRC monthly minimum wage in Tokyo was like $2000.

ZUN made around $90000~$98000 from selling Double Spoiler at Reitaisai 7 alone.

Don't tell me that's US dollars. If it is, then ZUN's making a ton of money...

[Imosa]

The games sell well + music CD sales + manga sales + licenses

Plus the games cost very little to make. Every 15 months or so he spends $250 to upgrade Cubase, $200~$400 on one or two new VST instruments, prolly less than $500 on computer upgrades and then there's the cost of printing and distributing the games which I have no idea but it's prolly not a lot. IIRC monthly minimum wage in Tokyo was like $2000.

ZUN made around $90000~$98000 from selling Double Spoiler at Reitaisai 7 alone.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

[Romantique Tp]

Mentioned in the MAG-Net Touhou Project documentary.

"It was the release of his latest game, Double Spoiler.
The 10,000 copies of the game were already sold out by noon."

Double Spoiler was being sold for 1000 yen.

[Clarste]

Development costs are low, but opportunity costs are high. All the time he spends working on Touhou is time he doesn't spend working on anything else. My brother did a project where he estimated the cost of production of a program based on the number of lines of code and the average salary of a programmer. Touhou games ended up in the 100k range (with a large margin of error). This isn't money ZUN actually spent, of course, but it's money he could have earned at an equivalent job. It's tempting to call something pure profit when you haven't spent a dime on it, but as they say time is money.

It's also worth noting that ZUN's "day job" at this point is writing manga. He's got 2 series currently in publication, and all indications are that he's fairly hands-on with everything going on. However, this is certainly a job he can do from home.

[Tengukami]

Development costs are low, but opportunity costs are high. All the time he spends working on Touhou is time he doesn't spend working on anything else. ... Touhou games ended up in the 100k range (with a large margin of error). This isn't money ZUN actually spent, of course, but it's money he could have earned at an equivalent job. It's tempting to call something pure profit when you haven't spent a dime on it, but as they say time is money.

The money paid for the games is payment for his labor. And it is "pure profit" in that, instead of working on a product where most of the resulting returns go to an employer, they go to him. He is literally, and totally, paid for the product of his labor, instead of partially paid for the products of his labor working for someone else giving him a wage. That's what's meant by "pure profit" - like any other worker, he is spending time on his labor, but, unlike most other workers, the returns for his labor go (more or less) entirely to him. His "opporunity costs" are practically nill.

[Clarste]

The money paid for the games is payment for his labor. And it is "pure profit" in that, instead of working on a product where most of the resulting returns go to an employer, they go to him. He is literally, and totally, paid for the product of his labor, instead of partially paid for the products of his labor working for someone else giving him a wage. That's what's meant by "pure profit" - like any other worker, he is spending time on his labor, but, unlike most other workers, the returns for his labor go (more or less) entirely to him. His "opporunity costs" are practically nill.

The "costs" in question were purely the programmer's salaries. As in, working on Touhou doesn't make him rich or anything, he simply earns about the normal rate for a programmer of his skill. Obviously he's not starving, but he's living an average life financially. Doing what he loves, of course, but average.

[Tengukami]

The "costs" in question were purely the programmer's salaries. As in, working on Touhou doesn't make him rich or anything, he simply earns about the normal rate for a programmer of his skill. Obviously he's not starving, but he's living an average life financially. Doing what he loves, of course, but average.

This is not an "opportunity cost". He has found the best possible opportunity for someone of his skills and interests. And without a boss, or having to commute. How much money he makes - even if slightly less than the "normal rate" for a programmer - still gives him incredible returns that are going to end up saving him money, especially as a new parent.

[Raikaria]

- has a fanbase modern rockbands anyone would sell their souls to achieve

Fixed.

[Clarste]

This is not an "opportunity cost". He has found the best possible opportunity for someone of his skills and interests. And without a boss, or having to commute. How much money he makes - even if slightly less than the "normal rate" for a programmer - still gives him incredible returns that are going to end up saving him money, especially as a new parent.

The assertion was that he should be rich from selling games at Comiket. My counter was that, no, he earns about the same as any normal programmer. Because, you know, he quit his job to do Touhou full time. I'm sure he loves this job a lot more than his old one, for all the reasons you mention and more, but there's no reason to believe he's made a financially awesome decision. If anything, he works more than most people do since he also has to handle marketing and stuff on his own (in his case the public appearances he makes and such). Also art and music which are not normally the responsibility of the programmer.

I'm not saying he made a bad decision, just that you shouldn't assume that he's living a life of luxury or anything. He's just a guy who works hard and loves his job.

[Romantique Tp]

"Normal" japanese programmers earn around $35,000~$75,000 yearly. Only a few earn more than $90,000.

ZUN made $90,000+ from selling a minor game at a convention smaller than comiket. He makes more than that yearly, specially when he releases main games since he sells the demos too.

[Serela]

I know the yen sign isn't on english keyboards but it's still really weird to see people using the dollar sign to mean yen (as 1 yen is roughly 1 penny)

e:Then I looked at it again and I realized he actually accounted for that and probably really meant US dollars, oops. 1k yen (10~ dollars) for 10k copies would be... yeah

I wonder if he doesn't bring more because he wants to make sure he doesn't overbuy, or because it's just too hard to physically bring any more. I mean really. 10 thousand CD cases! That's a lot to haul around.

[Helepolis]

Not sure but, didn't ZUN also wanted to have his own brewery and make his own brand more famous in the country? We're not hearing anyhing any more about that. Would be a typical 'Dad' activity, running a brewery and earning money.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Not sure but, didn't ZUN also wanted to have his own brewery and make his own brand more famous in the country? We're not hearing anyhing any more about that. Would be a typical 'Dad' activity, running a brewery and earning money.

Pretty sure ZUN's ideal way of receiving income is by hand-making his trademark Touhou games. I might be wrong, though.

[Helepolis]

A game isn't going to become a family legacy. Touhou it self will end one day, including the merchandise around it. A beer brewery, if well developed, can take decades as it is a consumer good widely appreciated, doesn't necessary have to be "Touhou fans"

ZUN isn't stupid and mostly I don't get why people narrow their vision down to only to thinking ZUN is going to live on the games. He isn't also going down the road of licensing and royalties business models where he unleashes his work for publishing as long as people pay (perhaps it is done on small scale). Hence we have the fan-creation guidelines by ZUN.

A child means more than just blindly going forward in life. Costs will increase, family expensives will go up. I am pretty sure ZUN also wishes one day to take it easy and since he has been successful with his Touhou Project, there must be some kind of long-term plan in development or perhaps even already being executed.