Author Topic: ZUN and Touhou status update (Read 415513 times)

cuc · « **Reply #840 on:** June 25, 2014, 10:04:28 AM »

First of all, a refresher: Lord of Vermilion is an arcade trading card RTS game from Square Enix, notable for having a lot of guest characters from other properties, overseen by ZUN's former colleague, Tanzawa Yuuichi. Reimu and Yuyuko made guest appearances in the game in 2012, complete with flavor texts written by ZUN.

Since then, LoV has underwent a major revision (from "Lord of Vermilion Re2" to "Lord of Vermilion III: Ark-cell"), and the Touhou characters are not available in version 3.0.

Yesterday, ZUN showed up at the official live broadcast of Lord of Vermilion, "LoV☆Star Ark-cell". The show announced Reimu's return to LoV in update Ver 3.1R. Will Yuyuko return in Ver 3.2? Will new Touhou characters be added in Ver 3.3? Only the developers know! I didn't watch it, but it seems I haven't missed much.

Phew. It's Touhou, so this is the closest thing here to the sort of marketing nonsense where creators spend more time promoting each other than making their own works, and only because ZUN and Tanzawa are friends.

Helepolis · « **Reply #841 on:** June 26, 2014, 02:18:42 PM »

Currently a livestream is busy with ZUN: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nikenme-radio

I found it by browsing his twitter.
一軒目で吞んでます。20時より二軒目から放送予定です。 http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nikenme-radio ? http://twitpic.com/e6yl6x

cuc · « **Reply #842 on:** June 26, 2014, 02:40:38 PM »

It's this month's Nikenme Radio, of course. The main themes are World Cup and ISC. I will try to do a simple and timely report, because you must all want to hear more about ISC, but I'm hella busy these days.

Mino ☆ · « **Reply #843 on:** July 08, 2014, 09:39:49 PM »

ZUN appears to have tweeted something about an english translation. http://twitpic.com/e7sv6y

Romantique Tp · « **Reply #844 on:** July 08, 2014, 10:10:14 PM »

He's working on a download version.

Sssgth · « **Reply #845 on:** July 08, 2014, 10:38:45 PM »

Quote from: Not Bigode on July 08, 2014, 10:10:14 PM

He's working on a download version.

If it's on Steam, then I'd switch to playing download exclusively. But dat DRM...

Romantique Tp · « **Reply #846 on:** July 08, 2014, 11:04:02 PM »

Steam DRM is probably the least intrusive kind of DRM around. Once a game is purchased you never need an internet connection to play it unless you want to install it on a new computer. A lot of people don't even realize there's any DRM involved, and many games work without having to launch Steam.

Sssgth · « **Reply #847 on:** July 09, 2014, 12:49:26 PM »

Well, sorry. I had never actually bought a game from it before, only trying F2Ps like TF2.

98digger · « **Reply #848 on:** July 09, 2014, 06:27:32 PM »

Quote from: Not Bigode on July 08, 2014, 11:04:02 PM

Steam DRM is probably the least intrusive kind of DRM around. Once a game is purchased you never need an internet connection to play it unless you want to install it on a new computer. A lot of people don't even realize there's any DRM involved, and many games work without having to launch Steam.

Yeah, I think that many similar services also do this. For that reason, I personally never buy digital download games; I always buy physical copies. Maybe if the initial internet realease of the English Touhou is successful, then ZUN might consider making physical copies for the U.S. For now, I'll just import the Japanese versions

.

On a side note, I'm curious to how ZUN is going to number the English versions. Assuming ZUN will choose not to release Touhou 1-5, I'm expecting some sort of re-numbering will occur, much like the FC and SFC Final Fantasy games. That is, unless he gives us some sort of input on how he does things with the English releases, which he probably won't anyways :V.

Romantique Tp · « **Reply #849 on:** July 09, 2014, 06:38:06 PM »

Quote from: 98digger on July 09, 2014, 06:27:32 PM

Yeah, I think that many similar services also do this. For that reason, I personally never buy digital download games; I always buy physical copies. Maybe if the initial internet realease of the English Touhou is successful, then ZUN might consider making physical copies for the U.S. For now, I'll just import the Japanese versions .

Reason? What reason?

hungrybookworm · « **Reply #850 on:** July 09, 2014, 06:45:56 PM »

I doubt it's going to be on Steam. I am curious if anything other than the config will be in English though.

Soul Devour · « **Reply #851 on:** July 09, 2014, 08:31:51 PM »

Quote from: Not Bigode on July 09, 2014, 06:38:06 PM

Reason? What reason?

Most likely the fact while unintrusive, Steam's DRM is still DRM. That said, swearing off all digital releases because many of services (or least the most well-known services) have DRM seems a bit rash as there places where you can buy your games hassle free with no fear of DRM. I will point to GOG as the golden standard of what digital buying and downloading should be like. You buy it, download it and that's the end of that. I'll go even further and say that GOG had the better summer sale in terms of deals/prices for games offered on both platforms. Personally, I'll buy the Touhou games regardless of which platform they are on, but yeah, I'd prefer GOG over Steam.

Ugh posting on an iPod Touch is painful.

98digger · « **Reply #852 on:** July 09, 2014, 09:32:09 PM »

Quote from: Soul Devour on July 09, 2014, 08:31:51 PM

Most likely the fact while unintrusive, Steam's DRM is still DRM. That said, swearing off all digital releases because many of services (or least the most well-known services) have DRM seems a bit rash as there places where you can buy your games hassle free with no fear of DRM. I will point to GOG as the golden standard of what digital buying and downloading should be like. You buy it, download it and that's the end of that. I'll go even further and say that GOG had the better summer sale in terms of deals/prices for games offered on both platforms. Personally, I'll buy the Touhou games regardless of which platform they are on, but yeah, I'd prefer GOG over Steam.

Ugh posting on an iPod Touch is painful.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant.

Aside from that, the other reason why I don't like Steam is because it requires the internet to run the games. I think that if you purchase a game, you should be able to fully install it to the hard drive and run it independently of any "service" or network connection. And with most Touhou games only taking up 40 MegaBytes each, there should be no reason to connect to the internet other than to download the game itself.

Also, if possible on ZUN's part, I think that it would be even better if the games were released on multiple formats. For example, although most movies are digitally available these days, they are still available on DVD, which allows them to be accessible to a wider audience. If the Touhou games were released like this, then the same would be true for them, too.

Clarste · « **Reply #853 on:** July 09, 2014, 10:45:52 PM »

Quote from: 98digger on July 09, 2014, 06:27:32 PM

On a side note, I'm curious to how ZUN is going to number the English versions. Assuming ZUN will choose not to release Touhou 1-5, I'm expecting some sort of re-numbering will occur, much like the FC and SFC Final Fantasy games. That is, unless he gives us some sort of input on how he does things with the English releases, which he probably won't anyways :V.

The screenshot he posted on twitter says th14, so I doubt he's renumbering anything. Why would he bother? I'm also not sure he even plans to release all the past game at all, it might be more of a "going forward" thing.

Also, Steam has an offline mode you can play in. Although it's somewhat more annoying than it needs to be.

Drake · « **Reply #854 on:** July 09, 2014, 10:47:14 PM »

Steam doesn't require internet access to run... I want to say most of its solo-player games?

Physical media for Touhou outside of Japan would be ridiculous to handle. I find it extremely hard to believe that there would be any benefit of doing so.
And come on people, you're potentially getting your dreams fulfilled by having the man develop an official world version and possibly using an entire new distribution platform for the games that have been available exclusively through physical doujin channels forever, and you're already talking about multiple formats? Are you kidding?

Jana · « **Reply #855 on:** July 09, 2014, 11:43:26 PM »

Physical English copies of something as niche as Touhou would be a financial pitfall. I'm sure ZUN knows better than to try that.

98digger · « **Reply #856 on:** July 10, 2014, 01:39:42 AM »

Yes, it would seem unrealistic for ZUN to produce physical copies of the games for the west, but I'm going by the assumption that ZUN would work with some sort of distribution company to release the games. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is probably near impossible for one man to deal with international copyright laws and the licensing that goes with distributing a game in foreign territories. Even if he produces the translations himself, a company is still going to have to do the distribution work for him. And, from what I've seen, *most* distribution companies offer both CD-ROM and digital download versions of nearly every game they carry.

If you look at the vast amount of translated doujin games out there, all of them are distributed with the help of distribution companies. I can't say that ZUN would stray from this strategy, because it is (probably) the easiest and most financially easy way for doujin developers to get their games out to the world. Perhaps Twilight Frontier will help ZUN out and find some other way for distribution, but at the moment we have to consider distribution companies the most likely method he could possibly use.

shockdude · « **Reply #857 on:** July 10, 2014, 04:08:19 AM »

Actually Steam prefers having an internet connection, or else you can't run games with Steam DRM, even single-player games. Steam can be run offline, but it requires a little bit of setup and I believe it only stays offline for a couple weeks. But other than that Steam is alright.
It is possible to release games on Steam w/o DRM. The game installs through Steam and can be launched either from Steam or by directly opening the game exe. I can see ZUN choosing this option, assuming he's aware about it.

Kimidori · « **Reply #858 on:** July 10, 2014, 09:43:08 AM »

You guys talking like there are no DRM with physical copy, in fact, some DRM from physical copy is much more intrusive than Steam DRM which require you to have internet connection at all time instead of offering you an offline mode like Steam.

And with Steam, developer can opt to release their game DRM-free, no one force them to use it, if Touhou get on Steam and have DRM, blame ZUN, not Steam.

Personally unless physical copy offers bonus like artbook and such, I always go for digital copy, much more convenience IMO.

Sssgth · « **Reply #859 on:** July 10, 2014, 12:29:46 PM »

Distribution on GOG would be nice, because I use a Mac and have to use Wineskin for Windows games. Even though Touhou is conducive to this, it's not possible to buy Windows games on Steam with a Mac, even if they could be Wineskinned, as it will stop you at the purchase page. As such, I'd greatly prefer some other distribution channel.

Romantique Tp · « **Reply #860 on:** July 10, 2014, 04:24:48 PM »

Just get Crossover for Mac (for CrossTie). Or setup a windows dual boot like everyone else does.

Sssgth · « **Reply #861 on:** July 10, 2014, 08:18:11 PM »

Quote from: Not Bigode on July 10, 2014, 04:24:48 PM

Just get Crossover for Mac (for CrossTie). Or setup a windows dual boot like everyone else does.

Except, CrossOver/Tie still doesn't bypass Steam's prevention of such purchases, and I'm not in a situation where I can readily purchase a spankin' new OS or get one free through Dreamspark. While it'd be nice to have it on a DRM-free platform like GOG, Steam is still the likely platform and not a convenient one for me.

BB · « **Reply #862 on:** July 10, 2014, 09:56:07 PM »

It's pretty exciting to see an english translation come from ZUN, but until he outright says "I'm releasing the games in the west officially" I won't get my hopes up too much. It could just be a test for a future project, or something else. Still, Th14 is somewhat stand-alone from the others (start of a new arc after the religion war and first game in the HD engine) so it would make a good starting point for the first international game.

I hope he reaches out to the existing translation community, though. I wouldn't like to see a publisher get their hands on it and try to change too much (see: Nicalis with Cave Story, they changed the music- could you imagine?) or scare him off.

Sssgth · « **Reply #863 on:** July 11, 2014, 04:23:02 AM »

Well, you're exaggerating. Nicalis only remixed the existing tracks (even though the remixes suck.) At the same time, it would be hard to retain creative control in the translation process.

Clarste · « **Reply #864 on:** July 11, 2014, 04:35:48 AM »

Honestly I'm half-expecting him to just release it in Japanese with the menu translated.

Drake · « **Reply #865 on:** July 11, 2014, 05:51:33 AM »

Translation of anything beyond that without any more qualified people working on it would be a disaster. I'm hoping this is the case, really. The point is getting a proper method of access for people outside of Japan, not the fact that some words may now be english.

cuc · « **Reply #866 on:** July 11, 2014, 03:23:15 PM »

Quote from: ZUN

Hold SHOT button for slow
...
Color Format
32Bits(Recommended) [Note the lack of space between "Bits" and the left parathesis]

This is no doubt by a very amateurish translator. Who could that be?

Speaking of amateurish English skills (from FS Chapter 7):

If you look at the context of this tweet, you'll also see that ZUN posted it at 5 AM, when he was drinking at home alone. After posting it, he looked at twitter, saw that Brazil had a terrible first half (he doesn't like soccer, so he's not actually watching World Cup), and went to sleep.

In summary, what we can deduce is that ZUN is translating the config program all by himself. If he had someone else localizing his game, there's no reason he shouldn't let them translate the config program. The implication is that he's not going to rely on outside translators at all. Given how limited his English skills are, the game's main contents cannot possibly get translated.

To take it further, I'm going to make an educated guess: he is not going to rely on any existing download platforms and localization companies. Instead, he will set up a website by himself, put the download version up, and add some payment interface like PayPal and Moneybrookers. Posting the image means the release date is already quite near; he might even open the download site before Comiket 86.

The reason? ZUN values his own independence above everything, and would prefer to not let localizers meddle with his games. He has expressed his distrust with the localizers, saying: "Can you translate better than my fans? They are super hardcore!". On the other hand, I've kept close watch on the localizers, and none of them have shown any signs they are in the talks with him.

In the end, ZUN's plans seem to be exactly what Clarste and Drake said - release the game with a basically functional translation, and let the fans deal with the rest.

BB · « **Reply #867 on:** July 11, 2014, 04:40:51 PM »

Quote from: Sssgth on July 11, 2014, 04:23:02 AM

Well, you're exaggerating. Nicalis only remixed the existing tracks (even though the remixes suck.)

Yeah, admittedly that might have been a little hyperbolic

However, the sky-falling-down worst-case-scenarios aren't the only concern- I don't mean to pick on Nicalis here as I'm sure the others (Carpe Fulgur, Rockin Android, XSEED etc) all do the same, but to take another example from Cave Story, Balrog was a popular character in the fandom, famous for shouting "HUZZAH!" every time he appeared. Nicalis changed that to "OH YEAH!", most likely in reference to koolaid, but in the Cave Story community HUZZAH had already become a reference in its own right.

Taking small changes like that and applying it to Touhou, there's a lot of smaller fandom jokes that might be lost if that happened. It's perhaps nitpicky, but things like "is that so" are an immediately recognisable part of the fandom and if they were localised out there'd be a lot of the established culture lost.

Of course, Clarste et al are absolutely right and I'm getting ahead of myself worrying about it. Touhou accessible outside of Japan- by whatever means- is something to be excited about. If it was a choice between a localiser or no touhou, I'd certainly keep my mouth shut, and throw lots of money at them meanwhile!

Kimidori · « **Reply #868 on:** July 11, 2014, 05:51:19 PM »

@cuc It's not amateurish, it just broken. amateur translator is someone who know both languages well but bad at covey meaning to another language. here, ZUN is just. plain bad at english.

Sssgth · « **Reply #869 on:** July 11, 2014, 08:54:27 PM »

Yeah. But it'd be nice just to have the games here. I'm sure it'd open the door for many on-the-fence buyers who aren't willing to wrestle with foreign companies. Though, I'm pretty sure that the people at thpatch.net would be more than willing to assist him.