Labyrinth of Touhou 4F

[Serela]

Yeah, neither of them offer much damage past random encounters; although Aya can do a little against bosses can be okay because of low delay. Sakuya wins on randoms because Sculpture pierces DEF much better.

Now, if you used Iku or someone to buff Aya's attack, suddenly she'd turn into Chen. But that's a different story. It's just that Aya's attacks have shit for DEF piercing, except Wind Fan.

[Bananamatic]

she's way way way better than SAKUYA on the offense

That doesn't mean anything because lol sakuya

[Ghaleon]

Honestly I don't know how everyone plays with nothing but glass cannons as attackers effectively. you can't possibly switch out every glass cannon between every attack all the time.

[trancehime]

Honestly I don't know how everyone plays with nothing but glass cannons as attackers effectively. you can't possibly switch out every glass cannon between every attack all the time.

TWINK THE UNTWINKABLE

TURN GLASS CANNONS INTO TANK CANNONS

That doesn't mean anything because Ha ha, old chap! sakuya

yeah well...

fuck you got me there :derp:

[Esoterica]

i have to question how you're twinking their offense

'cause for me Aya almost always does quadruple the amount of damage Sakuya does and that isn't even against weakness

Well whatever I'm just saying it's a little weird they both hit for around the same damage :V

...okay, yeah, Aya hits harder.  Just went in-game to get screenies with both equipped with a single Blade Cuisinart.  On Shub-nigguraths...

...Aya hit for about 20k with her multi-target attack
...Sakuya hit 14k with Soul Sculpture

so yeah, disregard that i suck cocks etc :derp:

[Bananamatic]

I'm still interested in how well will sweeper Komachi work :V

[Serela]

TWINK THE UNTWINKABLE

ALL SKP ON MEILING

0S FROM ALL PHYISICAL, TWINK MND TO NEAR INVINCIBILITY, COLOURFUL RAIN EVERYTHING ELSE, MOUNTAINBREAKERMOUNTAINBREAKERMOUNTAINBREAKERMOUNTAINBREAKER

????

YOU WIN EVERYTHING FOREVER

[Bananamatic]

ALL SKP ON MEILING

0S FROM ALL PHYISICAL, TWINK MND TO NEAR INVINCIBILITY, COLOURFUL RAIN EVERYTHING ELSE, MOUNTAINBREAKERMOUNTAINBREAKERMOUNTAINBREAKERMOUNTAINBREAKER

?

YOU WIN EVERYTHING FOREVER

THE GREAT WALL OF GRIND VS THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA
THE WHEEL OF FATE IS TURNING
REBEL 1
ACTION

[Ghaleon]

I'm still interested in how well will sweeper Komachi work :V

you mean boss pwner komachi? It'll work well, her attack is actually good, the formula is  nearly the best spirit based attack in the game (Yuyu's is quite a bit better, but her lower mag growth combined with her really harsh leveling curve, along with omgwtfthissux sp cost kinda prevent it from really excelling at anything). It'll be like Suika's wind attack only spirit, or Kanako's water attack (probably a bit better actually), Suwako's ntr attack...

[Serela]

THE GREAT WALL OF GRIND VS THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA
THE WHEEL OF FATE IS TURNING
REBEL 1
ACTION

BUT CAN IT STAND UP TO COMPLETE CONTROL OVER YOUR ACTIVE GAUGE?!

[RainfallYoshi]

I could probably switch in Komachi for Remilia but getting rid of Remilia might tug at my heart a bit. Komachi is probably a BEASTLY 2nd slot tanker though. I'll probably switch Sakuya in for Aya as well since I remember getting a bit more use out of Aya in my last attempt at this game.

Also, am I doing it wrong if I'm giving everyone level bonuses in their offensive stats? (other than DEF Meiling,  MND Minoriko, and HP Komachi)

[Serela]

Also, am I doing it wrong if I'm giving everyone level bonuses in their offensive stats? (other than DEF Meiling,  MND Minoriko, and HP Komachi)

*looks at your party*

Yes. Although ATK-Komachi and DEF-Remi aren't bad ideas, but whichever path you've put them on, just stick to it. Oh, and I suppose ATK-Sakuya doesn't have the most fans, but since you just switch in -Dial- switch out, it's fine.

[Bananamatic]

I'd say go full MND Ran, she is almost a tank in plus disk. She's definitely a supporter, not an attacker :V

[Esoterica]

Also, am I doing it wrong if I'm giving everyone level bonuses in their offensive stats? (other than DEF Meiling,  MND Minoriko, and HP Komachi)

It's probably not the best idea, but it'll work.  I'm doing offensive stats on all non-tanks on my first playthrough, and it's been fine so far (though Remi's pretty crappy for DPS on a def/mnd build). :V

[Ghaleon]

BUT CAN IT STAND UP TO COMPLETE CONTROL OVER YOUR ACTIVE GAUGE?!

I'm pretty sure that person is grossly overlevel. No way in hell should Yuyu be able to move fast enough to go on her own during such a boss except for the insta-guage fills from kaggy... even WITH the speed buff. Even if that person spent all the level ups in speed, then that first nuke (which does piss damage) wouldn't be hitting for omgwtfpwnzor damage that it currently IS hitting for.

I really wanted to use yuyu in that very same fashion, but her movement speed just didn't allow it.

As for what to spend level up bonuses on. It really is a matter of preference. Some people are all gung-ho on attack, others are on defense. I just would not reccommend spending it on sp under any circumstance because late in the game pretty much everyone has more than they can ever hope to use (excluding spells like destroy magic). And in those cases, maximum sp doesn't mean @%#@#% (especially since recovery % is capped at 2X the so called '%'.

I pretty much suggest though never ever spend it on offensive stats for anybody whose main role is to buff or heal though. so not reimu, ran, kaggy (unless you use her nukes on bosses more often than her buff), 16fboss, etc. Despite what ban claims. I still think REmi is a pretty steller dpser. she wont hit as hard as your 0% active guage nukers, but she can do it much faster, and she's much more durable than ANY dpser in the game...Granted, her use is not really great if you have access to charge or Iku.

[Bananamatic]

My guess is lv500-600...that's 18F V3. Yeah, a little overleveled I guess...but interesting nonetheless

[Esoterica]

kaggy (unless you use her nukes on bosses more often than her buff)

I really don't see why you wouldn't give her an INT build.  Her spells hit so hard, it seems like it'd be a waste not to.

Then again, I haven't tried her buff yet.  But that's because she hits so hard it seems like a waste to give her turn to someone else :B

[Serela]

Giving her turn to someone else can definitely be useful; for example, letting Suwako hit 16F boss again with her NTR nuke. But yeah, Kaguya should be given MAG, since her MND-ignoring spells are incredibly useful in random battles for the whole game.

[Esoterica]

Giving her turn to someone else can definitely be useful; for example, letting Suwako hit 16F boss again with her NTR nuke. But yeah, Kaguya should be given MAG, since her MND-ignoring spells are incredibly useful in random battles for the whole game.

And boss fights; she hits over 100k with Hourai Jewel almost as often as Flansocks does with Laveatein, and they're my only two characters that can hit like that unbuffed.

Unrelated...just had a great run against the 18F boss...until he paralyzed Reimu and Ran, and wiped everyone but Tenshi with Overgrowth spam.  Does that attack ignore defense or something?  Because even with buffs in place it just steamrolls me every time.

Rumia showed her worth as backup healer/MYS dpser when Reimu got paralyzed though.  Between her and Ran the SPI form went down quickly, and she saved Kaguya, Tenshi, and Sanae when all three were about to die with a quick Demarcation.

[Bananamatic]

Kaguya is pretty much spirit flavoured Flan for mass grinding, especially later on.

There is a benefit to giving her turn to somebody else - having 1 member attack and then having Kaguya give her buff=buffs are renewed, attacker has 100% delay, Kaguya has 50% delay - having both attack would result in the buffs going down faster and both ending up with no timebar.

[Esoterica]

Kaguya is pretty much spirit flavoured Flan for mass grinding, especially later on.

There is a benefit to giving her turn to somebody else - having 1 member attack and then having Kaguya give her buff=buffs are renewed, attacker has 100% delay, Kaguya has 50% delay - having both attack would result in the buffs going down faster and both ending up with no timebar.

Oh, it's only 50% delay?  I assumed it emptied the bar like 16F.

Well that's pretty useful then.

[Bananamatic]

16F gives turn to everyone though, that's how I grind on 30F :V

18F-16F-Shiki-Nitori

18F buffs, Shiki and Nitori attack, 16F casts more turns, 18F switches her for Chen and back, S&N attack, more turns and by now everything on 30F is dead.

Effective with or without infinite TP hax.

[Ghaleon]

Kaggy's spirit nuke is indeed powerful, but it has huge delay, and it doesn't buff anybody. Buffing a ko in 3 steps, megawatt cannon, croaking frog, spring like suika, etc by 30% should prove to be compareably powerful, with the added bonus of 30% more speed, mnd, def as well as atk/mag. Why dump all her level up stats into mag just do do compareable damage to those characters when you can have a more defensive kaggy,and STILL do compareable damage (using the buff).

Granted she'll be less useful for trash yes, but she'll still be more than capable to ko helbelmeres, yellow kings, and those 27f crabs that are hard as @#%@#% to damage (as soon as you reach the floor to boot)

Pumping her mind allows her to stay out safely for long periods of time..Alas, she'll still be needle parade chow, and in some cases arrow rain chow.

[Bananamatic]

Full HP+buffed kaggy could take a Needle Parade from the magical Hibachi.

Though in the end I didn't use her at all on my winning attempt. Needle Parade is predictable though, every 7th turn.

[Ghaleon]

Full HP+buffed kaggy could take a Needle Parade from the magical Hibachi.

Though in the end I didn't use her at all on my winning attempt. Needle Parade is predictable though, every 7th turn.

SoC's isn't predictable though >=(

[Bananamatic]

SoC's isn't predictable though >=(

SoC doesn't have it silly

unless he decides to be a dick and target her in the back row :V
he has only scourge and thousand handed kannon(which kill anyone so yeah)

Didn't need Kaguya there either by the way...and he got off only one turn in that phase.

Hooray for overpowering 2 attackers and screwing the rest :V

Also, Exoskeleton #2 GET. Feels bad to trade it for one Gurthang, as that is already a 10-13k atk difference.
and goddamnit yuyuko v3
can't get ZUNhats because lol flawless nirvana always takes out 3 people at once

[Esoterica]

okay yeah just tried her buff on Mokou, took out 18F's water form in one (two?) shot

Now I'm kicking myself for taking MAG over MND.

[Bananamatic]

Go 50/50. Thought I would use Flan for 27F grinding, but she did just as well...except for these annoying Force Spathas which died only sometimes :V

[Ghaleon]

I'm pretty darn sure SoC DID have needle parade when I played against it on my first playthru. Had arrow rain on phase 2, and needle parade on phase 3.

[Parallaxal]

To be honest, I went full MAG on Kaguya on my first playthrough (made 27F grinding a snap, of course). It actually wasn't that bad, because I also had 16F for filling guages instead. In fact, Kaguya was one of my primary recipients of 16F's guage-fill spell, for more Danmaku Barrage spam. So the bottom line is, if you're relying on 16F to fill guages, that frees up Kaguya to do something else.