Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 26, 2017, 03:41:28 AM
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The problem with pronouncing names that are in different languages is that everyone pronounces the vowels differently, and the names of the 2hus are no exceptions as shown by some Let's Plays of the series.
For example:
Keine - Kai-neh or Kay-neh or Kayn?
Reisen - Ray-sen or Rai-sen?
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Keine - Kay-neh
Reisen - Ray-sen
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The wiki has pronunciation sample clips for most characters, notated with a little (♫) in the infobox.
e.g.
Kamishirasawa Keine (https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/8/8c/Pronunciation_KeineKamishirasawa.ogg)
Reisen Udongein Inaba (https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/c/c0/Pronunciation_ReisenUdongeinInaba.ogg)
Due to Japanese being a very phonetic language, pronunciation is pretty straightforward outside of details like pitch accent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pitch_accent). See for example Himekaidou Hatate (https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/f/f7/Pronunciation_HatateHimekaidou.ogg).
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Cirno = KUR-naw
Kaguya = kag-OO-yay
Reimu = ree-MUH
Marisa = mar-EE-say
Aya Shameimaru = AY-aw SHAME-ee-MAY-ruh
hth
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Cirno = KUR-naw
it's chill number we've been over this
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it's chill number we've been over this
get a load of this secondary
i bet you don't even pronounce Remilia as ree-MEH-LEE-ay, either.
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The bigger question is which syllable should you put the accent on. Hoo boy...
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Churn-no
Ch-hi-yu-ri
Ch-hen
Ko-ma-ch-hi
Jeye-ant Ch-at-fish
Ch-lown-peace
Loo-na ch-heyeld
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Churn-no
Ch-hi-yu-ri
Ch-hen
Ko-ma-ch-hi
Jeye-ant Ch-at-fish
Ch-lown-peace
Loo-na ch-heyeld
Important note: all the h's are silent in Japanese. Look it up if you don't believe me.
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Actually the h's are pronounced more like f's so it's roughly more like this:
Cfurn-no
Cf-fi-yu-ri
Cf-fen
Ko-ma-cf-fi
Jeye-ant Cf-at-fisf
Cf-lown-peace
Loo-na cf-feyeld
I translate things so you can trust me
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That's true, but tbh I'm kinda annoyed that no one ever uses Chen's full name, Chen Jun'ichirotanizaki*. I mean it's just a few extra syllables guys you don't have to phone it in.
*pron. "KAH-FEEN joo-NEH-FEH-roo-tay-nee-ZAY-kuh"
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Shit you're right Drake, I forgot they still use the long s. My bad, thanks for catching that!
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I remember at ax there was someone talking to me how they wanted to play as seer-no, seer-no, and it took me a moment to realize they were talking about cirno since I pronounce her name as cheer-no. No cheers in this girl.
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Churn-no
What I don't get is how the ___ people came with that pronounciation. A direct romaji of her name is "Chiruno" which sounds as "tchee-ru-no". I would understand that particular pronounciation if it was "Curno" or something. Cirno, from an English pronouncation point of view, "Cheer-no" seems closer to the Japanese pronounciation than "Churn-no".
Mind you, I'm French Canadian and I've always pronounced it "See-r-no" because of how "ci" is pronounced in French. If I force a Japanese pronounciation, I'd say "tchee-ru-no".
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Let us not forget about our one and only Toyotamitsubishi no Miko. All these fools still saying "toyosatomimi" these days need to seriously take some japanese classes in their spare time.
The correct pronunciation, not forgetting the h=f rule, as well as the law of the south, is "ter-yatta-mitscfer-beefy naw miku"
edit: a spelling
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Yeah, Japanese pronunciation is pretty straightforward, especially for the katakana names. The only confusions arise when the kanji of a particular character's name creates ambiguities (See: Kurenai Misuzu). So, Chee-ru-noh, Kay-neh, Ray-sen, Hohn May-reen, etc.
Now, let's leave the land of Japan! I highly doubt ZUN 'intended' Flandre to be pronounced "Fu-ran-dooh-ru" outside the limitations of Japanese, though if you're some kinda really hardcore fan, I guess you might do that. To each their own.
Which leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not it's 'supposed' to be "Flan-druh" or "Flan-durr." I do Flandurr.
Cirno's name is... uhh... It can't be a romanisation mistake; then it'd be Tiruno. Which I've seen. The "Ci" is either deliberate, a really dumb mistake, or a supreme lack of caring. I gave up some time ago and embraced the Japanese. Here's ten conceivable pronunciations:
- Chill-noh (Pun)
- Cheer-noh (Trying to reconcile with the Japanese)
- Sir-noh (Straightforward reading)
- Keer-noh (Misinterpretation of Japanese misinterpretations of romanisation interpretations)
- Kur-noh (Trolling. Accept no substitutes.)
- The aboves, with "naw" instead (Also trolling)
- Keir-new (Sounds foreign)
- Tee-roo-no (Pronouncing the misspelling)
- Bah-Kah (The STRONGEST pronunciation)
- The ice fairy (For total argument avoiding)
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I generally use an anglicised Japanese way of pronouncing their names. Generally just the same as the Japanese but with vowels and consonants pronounced in a more English way - usually dropping things like the extended vowels except for cases like Yuuka where is can cause confusion. Some I do pronounce weirdly though.
I pronounce Cirno as "Chuhr-no" because that's how I first read it. I used the English I and it dropped to an "uh" sound.
I pronounce Kogasa's surname as "Tartara" instead of "Tatara" for no real reason.
Although not a character, I prounounce Eintei differently. I don't know how to explain it though as it's using a vowel I've only found in the Scottish accent. It's the I in "fight" here. Despite this, I pronounce every other occurance of "ei" as "ay" such as "ray-sen" for Reisen.
I pronounce Flandre as "Flon dray" because that was my initial reading of it. Despite this I have changed my pronunciation of Keine from "kay - een" to "kay - ne"
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Since I don't know how the hell to phonetic how I say things I went the extra step and Vocaroo'd a buncha names
Keine Kamishirasawa (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1smR2Nb7ayG) - The last name alone required a good 20 rerecords as I kept stumbling over it.
Nitori Kawashiro (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0HUaIM5eO0n)
Parsee Mizuhashi (http://vocaroo.com/i/s11rulj6k1Xb)
Utsuho Reiuji (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JmDejDXGWl)
No clue if I'm remotely close on any of em.
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Now, let's leave the land of Japan! I highly doubt ZUN 'intended' Flandre to be pronounced "Fu-ran-dooh-ru" outside the limitations of Japanese, though if you're some kinda really hardcore fan, I guess you might do that. To each their own.
Which leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not it's 'supposed' to be "Flan-druh" or "Flan-durr." I do Flandurr.
This is probably the only name I'm having trouble pronouncing. I use "Flandurr" too.
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I use "Flan-dray". Long "A" in Flan.
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...Seriously? Nobody else have problems with putting accents? Because I'm probably pronouncing names in the strangest way possible, usually stressing second-to-last or (rarely) last syllable. Because that's how phonetic rules in my language work :smokedcheese: I do pronounce a few names right, but that's only after actually hearing them enough times.
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More Vocaroos
Flandre Scarlet (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1XKbkSc4B7G)
Cirno (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0LdRI1YtpaB)
Youmu Konpaku (http://vocaroo.com/i/s11S3nrRwxzI)
Reisen Udongein Inaba (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0L3cQeVG8nA)
Komachi Onozuka (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0PuckPS12uG)
No clue how close I am on any of these. And how many cannot be freely spoken by proper due to accent.
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I use "Flan-dray". Long "A" in Flan.
"Flandre" is a French word, so... you can look up any text-to-speech and use French voice to hear a sample on how it should REALLY be pronounced.
Also, you don't really want to use the English translation (https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/d/d6/Ned_Flanders_2.png) equivalent. You don't.
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...Seriously? Nobody else have problems with putting accents? Because I'm probably pronouncing names in the strangest way possible, usually stressing second-to-last or (rarely) last syllable. Because that's how phonetic rules in my language work :smokedcheese: I do pronounce a few names right, but that's only after actually hearing them enough times.
Good news! Japanese has no accenting, so (in Japanese) all syllables are stressed equally. This seems to make Japanese people difficult to understand, though. :ohdear:
For Keine Kamishirasawa, I... never memorized her last name. Nor do I ever need to say it. If I did, it would be... Kah-me-she-rah-sah-wah. What a mess.
I always make the mistake of calling her "Cane," even though her name is supposed to be "Kay-neh." Habit. :blush:
Here's one: Alice Margatroid. Japanese: Maah-gah-toh-roy-doh. Me: Mar (like in marsh) -guh- troid (rhymes with droid). I had to learn something so I could pronounce her name correctly.
Ooh, important note: Tewi and Tenshi's names have silent "w"s in Japanese. It's because of a really interesting linguistic incident hundreds of years ago nobody cares about now, so their names are "Tay" and "Hee-nah-nai," unless you're really old. I like "Hee-nah-nah-we" because I get to say Nah more.
I will happily give my opinions and knowledge on any more names, if anybody desired. :)
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Thai also has no accent as well so, over here we don't have to worry about stress.
So, since Japanese and Thai are both non-accented, I can share how they are pronounced in Thai and thus may be applied the same as in Japanese?
Cirno: Chill-no
Flandre: Frung-der
Margatroid: Mar-gar-troid (as in android)
Merlin (Prismriver): Meeh (long meh) Lang
Hinanawi: Hi-na-na-i
Imaizumi: I-ma-i-zu-mi
Of course, you won't probably hear the vowel like "i" in the last two names clearly since they will be pronounced together with a consonant in speaking.
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I can share how they are pronounced in Thai and thus may be applied the same as in Japanese?
Cirno: Chill-no
Flandre: Frung-der
Margatroid: Mar-gar-troid (as in android)
Merlin (Prismriver): Meeh (long meh) Lang
Hinanawi: Hi-na-na-i
Imaizumi: I-ma-i-zu-mi
I'm remembering Frung-der. That's too cool.
Merlin is a very western name; it's probably "Merlin" like the magician. Its Japanese is "Meh-roo-rahn," which made me blink and rub my eyes. One "Merlin," please.
Kagerou Imaizumi: Haven't played DDC, forgot about this hipster name. Japanese: "Kah-geh-rooow Ee-my-zoo-me"... which is what you just said. Your inclination is accurate.
Protip: There are no "uh"s, "ih"s, "rr"s, or "th"s (any kind) in Japanese. So, when Hilamia Umazuriwani is the next Touhou character, you're good to go! But when "Maribel Hearn" shows up in 15.5, it's hard to tell, since it's not Japanese. ZUN giveth, and ZUN taketh.
Side note: Hecatia Lapislazuli: Long or short "A"? I don't know Greek.
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IIRC, unless there is an extra syllable or some symbol in a character's name, it will be pronounced with a short sound.
Ex. Hoshiguma Yuugi/Hoshiguma Yūgi will be pronounced with a long u while Hoshiguma Yugi, with a short u.
Note: In japanese and Thai, the "ng" sound (Ex. King) can occur at the front syllable, unlike in English so Kagerou would be pronounced Kar-ngeh-row.
For Hecatia, it is Heeh-Kaa-Tia-Laa-Pis (unaspirated P)-laa-zoo-li.
Welp, after writing Hecatia's name, it looks like the above rule is rendered moot.
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I just ask because Hecatia's name is that of a Greek goddess, IIRC. Yes, Japanese is provided, so I can read it, but it's in Katakana, which means it's a foreigney word (<-For those who don't know). I am of the opinion that foreigney names should be pronounced foreigney, like that Clownpiece should be pronounced in English words. This is an opinion, which means others are entitled to their own.
Lapizlazuli is a mess. It doesn't deserve a consistent English pronunciation.
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Pardon me if I'm just missing something obvious, but what is wrong with "Lapislazuli"? I don't think I understand what you mean when you say it "doesn't deserve a consistent English pronunciation". Can it not just be read the same as you would pronounce the name of an ordinary Lapis-Lazuli - which is a real thing and does have a consistent English pronunciation already?
The pronunciation written out in simple terms is a bit like:
Lapis: L as in lie, short a as in bad, p as in pie, short i as in bid, s as in sigh
Lazuli: L as in lie, short a as in bad, z as in zoom, long u as in cute, l as in lie, i as in the 'y' in 'happy'
Alternatively, the final i is less commonly read as a long i as in tide.
I don't see anything about Lapislazuli in particular as a name that doesn't look consistent. Maybe I missed something, in that case, my apologies.
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Good news! Japanese has no accenting, so (in Japanese) all syllables are stressed equally. This seems to make Japanese people difficult to understand, though. :ohdear:
Thought so too but then found a guide about putting accents in japanese words. Guess it's pretty arbitrary, then.
They do have pitch accents, though. That's a whole new level of tying your tongue in a knot.
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Pardon me if I'm just missing something obvious, but what is wrong with "Lapislazuli"? I don't think I understand what you mean when you say it "doesn't deserve a consistent English pronunciation". Can it not just be read the same as you would pronounce the name of an ordinary Lapis-Lazuli - which is a real thing and does have a consistent English pronunciation already?
The pronunciation written out in simple terms is a bit like:
Lapis: L as in lie, short a as in bad, p as in pie, short i as in bid, s as in sigh
Lazuli: L as in lie, short a as in bad, z as in zoom, long u as in cute, l as in lie, i as in the 'y' in 'happy'
Alternatively, the final i is less commonly read as a long i as in tide.
I don't see anything about Lapislazuli in particular as a name that doesn't look consistent. Maybe I missed something, in that case, my apologies.
You're entirely right. I just A: never knew how to pronounce Lapis Lazuli in the first place, and B: it is one whole word here. Do I say it really fast, or...? I just wanted to poke fun at it. Sorry. :ohdear:
Who in hell has a last name of Lapislazuli?! Oh wait...
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You're entirely right. I just A: never knew how to pronounce Lapis Lazuli in the first place, and B: it is one whole word here. Do I say it really fast, or...? I just wanted to poke fun at it. Sorry. :ohdear:
Who in hell has a last name of Lapislazuli?! Oh wait...
Oh, fair enough then! That's quite alright, I just wasn't sure if I was missing something, or whatnot.
Honestly, I'm not sure whether it should be read quickly like one word, or more spaced out as if it were two words, in the case of her name anyways... That one is a mystery even to me.
edit: a spelling