Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Widermelonz on February 02, 2010, 07:50:41 AM

Title: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Widermelonz on February 02, 2010, 07:50:41 AM
A few minutes ago, I tried playing Touhou using a Xbox 360 controller. Usually I play using a keyboard, but I was curious to see if there was any notable difference if I use a controller instead. It turns out that I do twice as good with a controller than with a regular keyboard.

I've also noticed that I really like the feel of using an arcade stick. It just feels so responsive to my motions. I've been planning to buy and arcade stick for a while, but they're so expensive and I don't know which ones are good for their price. Any recommendations?

Anyways, what do you use to play Touhou?
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Krimmydoodle on February 02, 2010, 08:14:38 AM
It all depends on which method just feels right to you.  I, having grown up on gaming consoles and with minimal PC gaming experience, absolutely must use a 360 controller instead of the keyboard, regardless of how many people tell me I'm an idiot for doing so (which is a justifiable statement, as it took me forever to get the analog stick to work exactly as I want it, and even then, it only works perfectly on my computer, as the sensitivity goes straight down the drain when I try it on any other computer).  It's all dependent on what you're comfortable with.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Ghaleon on February 02, 2010, 09:43:35 AM
I first used keyboard because I didn't know how to get my controller to work. After I 1cc'd all the normals for all the Windows Touhous (And lotus land), I was stumped with 1ccing SA. I just couldn't do it (on normal, I didn't want to try easy). I mean, I couldn't even get past Orin on my first credit.

So then I finally got my ps3 controller to work, and as soon as I did, I 1cc'd SA with an extra life left on my first try. I thought my Touhou skills suddenly were god.

But...For some reason, when I tried using a controller for the other touhous, I did worse, not better. I fiddled with the sensativty and whatnot, but no dice, controller = suck mode. Eventually I got better and better, and could 1cc all the hards (except SA again, I haven't really tried yet though, scared lol, UFO doesn't count either since that didn't come out until after I set my personal goal for beating all the Touhou's on lunatic), as well as a few lunatics. But every time I tried the controller, normal mode was a struggle.

Every time I try a new shooter game for the first time, I try with and without the controller, and keyboard always wins for me.

I WOULD like to try a stick though. I have a very bad habit of moving more than I intend to using both a gamepad and the keyboard. I rekon a stick would help in that department (especially with rapid direction-changing slight diagonals).
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Aisha on February 02, 2010, 10:17:31 AM
I use a keyboard for all doujin and MAME shmups. I find that I can work the arrow keys significantly faster and more precisely than my thumb can work an analog stick or d-pad on a controller. I grew up on consoles, too. I also have an HRAP EX-SE stick, but I haven't gotten around to trying it out yet.

I've also noticed that I really like the feel of using an arcade stick. It just feels so responsive to my motions. I've been planning to buy and arcade stick for a while, but they're so expensive and I don't know which ones are good for their price. Any recommendations?

The shitty thing is that it's all preference. Ideally you would want to try out a whole bunch of sticks and see what feels most comfortable, but that's not very realistic, so you just have to do some research and make a choice. It's a gamble. Alternatively, you can buy a cheap stick and swap out the joystick and/or buttons for better quality ones, but it's probably not a good idea if you don't know what you're doing. Anyway, I would recommend keeping an eye out for sticks that have a Seimitsu (like mine) or Sanwa joystick. Both brands are popular manufacturers of quality Japanese arcade parts. The general consensus seems to be that Seimitsu joysticks are better for shmups (tighter movement) while Sanwa are better for fighters (looser movement). But since it ultimately comes down to preference, you might not find that to be the case. There is also the issue of buttons to consider as well. My stick has Seimitsu buttons, I think, but when I was making my purchase I was fixated entirely on the joystick instead, seeing as how I believe that movement is the most demanding task of a shooter.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Zengeku on February 02, 2010, 12:19:15 PM
Always keyboard. I have tried Ikaruga and Triggerheart Exelica on Xbox 360 and i find that i can't control it properly which causes very stupid deaths to occur on consistent basis. It completely ruins the experience for me so yeah, i prefer the keyboard. Imperishable Night was the first shooter i ever played - discounting a cheap Space Invaders clone that controlled with the mouse. :(

Its not just shmups really. I have also found that i play Mega Man better on PC than on console.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on February 02, 2010, 12:28:01 PM
I play PCB and IN with my keyboard. I don't know how to get a controller to work on my comp and I don't have an arcade stick, SoYeah.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Bananamatic on February 02, 2010, 02:20:58 PM
Keyboard. I don't really have problems with a controller either - the ps2 one, that is :V
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: orinrin on February 02, 2010, 05:43:54 PM
I use a PS1 type controller.  It takes some used getting to the d-pad (or fail-pad) when you use the keyboard a lot.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Jaimers on February 02, 2010, 06:16:11 PM
Controller.
I'm really terrible at the keyboard. A d-pad is so much easier.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: ふねん1 on February 02, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
Keyboard. It's a computer game, after all, so that's the way I started.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Solais on February 02, 2010, 06:30:32 PM
Keyboard, I'm a PC gamer. At least I was.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: theshirn on February 02, 2010, 06:39:14 PM
Keyboard.  Easier than a D-Pad and I always screw up stick control.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Menreiki on February 02, 2010, 06:43:41 PM
Keyboard. I feel that pad isn't that responsive.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Matsuri on February 02, 2010, 07:50:05 PM
Always keyboard for Touhou, stick for everything else possible.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: DarkslimeZ on February 02, 2010, 07:57:51 PM
Keyboard for shooters I have on the computer - nothing beats the precision of good ol' arrow keys when dealing with a game like Touhou.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Danielu Yoshikoto on February 02, 2010, 07:58:21 PM
i am good with the d-pad of my PSone controllet.
through... from time to time i play with my Arcarde controller, mostly the fighting games, through. (played through MoF once with it through)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Milkyway64 on February 02, 2010, 09:01:10 PM
Controller.
I'm really terrible at the keyboard. A d-pad is so much easier.

*high five*

As a struggling hard player, I find that even Easy Mode can sometimes make me sweat when using a keyboard.

Plus bridging your thumb over bomb button > using a separate finger. :V
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Esoterica on February 02, 2010, 09:36:02 PM
I don't know how the hell a controller could be easier than a keyboard, but then again I've never tried.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Minxix on February 02, 2010, 09:51:51 PM
I use a Sega Saturn controller because I kinda like the layout of the buttons and I heard that the d-pad was good for shmups.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Doomsday on February 02, 2010, 10:46:22 PM
Hmm. Wasn't there a thread about this already (abeit probably a while ago?)

Anyway, I've always used Keyboard. Never tried Touhou using anything else (its been god knows how long since I've played any shooter with anything else that I can remember)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Bananamatic on February 02, 2010, 10:49:08 PM
I use a Sega Saturn controller because I kinda like the layout of the buttons and I heard that the d-pad was good for shmups.
DO
DON
PACHI

now seriously, playing with an arcade stick has to be the ultimate nerdgasm.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: COPIRIGHTO on February 03, 2010, 12:16:35 AM
Keyboard. I don't have an arcade stick and I don't use a controller because the only one my parent's didn't get rid of is at my cousin's house.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Letty Whiterock on February 03, 2010, 12:22:36 AM
Touhou with an arcade stick is actually pretty awesome. Everything should be played with an arcade stick. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meOnyv4wWNU)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Fireseal on February 03, 2010, 12:55:34 AM
I've always played with a controller, moreso for the button configuration than anything (focus on a shoulder button!), but prompted by this thread I tried it on the stick I use for fighting games. Was pretty fun, except I just didn't have the precise control I'm used to. I screwed up The Next History of Phantasm. =/ That thing's like...trivial. Still, fun. ^_^

Oddly, I play SWR with the keyboard. Never felt comfortable controlling it with anything else.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: ebarrett on February 03, 2010, 01:21:24 AM
Keyboard. I was circlestrafing back when you didn't have mouse support on a FPS, so yeah.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Esoterica on February 03, 2010, 05:02:27 AM
Everything should be played with an arcade stick. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meOnyv4wWNU)
Oh Christ.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Aisha on February 03, 2010, 05:12:41 AM
God damn I forgot how awesome RKS music is. I really need to play that game again, at least once before Freudenstachel, anyway.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Chainsaw Guitar on February 03, 2010, 10:28:13 AM
Everything should be played with an arcade stick.

Hell yes.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Helix ⑨ on February 03, 2010, 11:53:12 AM
Hmm? You can use a 360 controller for touhou? How do I do that :V
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: orinrin on February 03, 2010, 01:45:32 PM
Hmm? You can use a 360 controller for touhou? How do I do that :V
I think they are using the USB ones.
Edit:  Wait, are they all USB?
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Zetzumarshen on February 03, 2010, 10:06:56 PM
On my earlier days I used d-pad, then it was broken, forcing me to learn using keyboard. Since then, I am using a plain desktop keyboard. In process, I have changed keyboard 3 times, from overusing the arrow buttons
and some rage bashing
.

Now, I'm planning to import some joystick spare parts and build my own custom stick, it's cheaper that way apparently. But maybe not very soon, I'm still in love with keyboards,and learning using different input method takes time.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tengukami on February 03, 2010, 10:44:28 PM
Been using a keyboard, but this thread has me curious about controllers. Wonder what would be best for a predominantly PC gamer to use? I haven't played a console game since Sonic Spinball.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Nobu on February 03, 2010, 11:11:33 PM
I think they are using the USB ones.
Edit:  Wait, are they all USB?

Yep! I don't even think you need special drivers for them. You might if it's a 360 non-controller peripheral like a stick though.


I use d-pad for Touhou, I found it much easier to move and maneuver at an angle with a dpad than a keyboard. And joystick was fun, but a bit too weird when having to make quick responses back and forth in succession.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Paul Debrion on February 03, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
I've pretty much stuck with the keyboard so far. I haven't tried it with a controller yet.

I've always been terrible with arcade sticks regardless of the type of game.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Blaman on February 04, 2010, 01:10:35 AM
I've tried with a controller and sucked. Worse than with a keyboard. So I stick to my good ol' keyboard, though I've never tried an arcade stick.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Sen on February 04, 2010, 03:49:38 AM
I've only played a keyboard, but that's fine with me. I'm kind of curious about using a controller, though. Would using a PS3 controller work if I just plugged the USB cable into my computer? :V
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: orinrin on February 04, 2010, 05:25:20 AM
PS3 controllers require some sort of driver for a computer to recognize them.  Damn Sony.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Esoterica on February 04, 2010, 05:34:32 AM
Tried a controller today.  I haven't played Touhou in forever, but it worked much better than I expected.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: An Odd Sea Slug on February 04, 2010, 09:49:23 AM
I'm dying to grab a pad or stick for shmups. Actually, for games in general, FPSes aside. I blame it on growing up with consoles; keyboards have always felt unwieldy and fat for me, made me more conscious of my fingers, leaving me nerve racked when faced with a particularly deadly barrage.

In other words, I'm too damn clumsy on keyboards, to the point of finger slipping.

Letty: *thumbs up*
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on February 04, 2010, 09:59:48 AM
Usually swear to a PS2 pad, but I've misplaced my controller. >_>

Tried playing with my Hori EX2 and failed miserably. It refuses to accept input unless I'm pulling the stick the whole way along, and this is with j2k because it doesn't accept the stick otherwise. T_T
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on February 07, 2010, 08:03:31 PM
I'm pretty good on a decent keyboard, When i first played with a good one in university I completed two touhou games in a row (not 1cc though, just with all continues... i sucked that bad) And was pretty impressed. my laptops keyboard isnt good enough though.

Tend to use my laptops keyboard until I rage from it ignoring a keypress and killing me, then I plug in my god aweful analogue controller. Its to sensetive sideways and the deadzone in the middle is too big.

It does have a D-pad, but touhou ignores it when you try and use this. Any ideas how I can set up the D-pad or (or hat as it seems to be called in the controller config?) to act in place of the controller axis? If I cant do this, I'll end up buying a keyboard or a gamepad instead. not being able to play touhou properly really annoys me.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Scarlet Moon on February 07, 2010, 10:53:04 PM
When I started playing touhou, I used the keyboard.  The best I ever did was beat IN.  I use PS2 controllers now.  It made me play the touhou games more aggressively.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Orreries on February 07, 2010, 11:22:27 PM
Keyboard! I don't even want to think about how much pain my fingertips would be in playing Touhou with a controller. Especially since I'm one of those people who just wraps bandaids around my thumbs and keeps going. #u////u#

And for me, a stick just seems odd/unnecessary in a 2D game. Maybe it's from religiously playing Rogue Squadron with one, but they seem more suited for moving around in a 3d environment.


But hmm... the post above tempts me to experiment with a controller. I don't see it lessening the difficulty, more like taking a new approach to controls. And I'm sure it would allow for far more fluid movement than the arrow keys.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on February 08, 2010, 12:27:22 AM
I dont think It does lol, its too easy to accidently go sideways or have trouble with the god damn dead zone  >:(

Arrg want to use that controllers D pad if it'd just bloomin accept control from it.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Sabino on February 08, 2010, 12:37:57 AM
In the past I bought a Logitech controller... but those things get at your nerves!
I don't have a XBox controller so maybe I should try that out in the future.
For now I'm using the keyboard.
...Or maybe I should buy those arcade pads? ... Although they cost a fortune. :(
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: DracoOmega on February 08, 2010, 01:39:31 AM
I always play with a controller (PS1 one, via an adapter). I played with a keyboard on my first day, until it actually occurred to me to use a controller. In fact, that almost felt like the 'right' way to do it. It felt quite a bit more comfortable. (Although, admittedly, sometimes my hangs can get sore from gripping it waaaay too tightly during particularly tense bits) I'm so used to playing with a controller now, though, that I think it would throw my game off considerably to use the keyboard. Although I have grown to wonder if the keyboard would be easier to be precise with some bits requiring extremely fine and small movements.

A friend of mine seems to think that the game isn't even meant to be played without a controller, and that it would be too difficult/awkward. (Thus he hasn't really played them much, because he doesn't HAVE a controller that will work with his PC.) It seems a majority of people do play that way, though.

I'm curious if there's anyone with a fair bit of experience playing with both keyboard and controller?
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Orreries on February 08, 2010, 06:02:54 AM
Keyboard + Extremely fine movements don't go together. At least, my laptop's keyboard has pretty jumpy sensitivity. But then, I don't have an example to state that controllers are either better or worse in that respect.

Yeah, I'll probably end up giving controllers a try now X'D  Spending quite a bit of money lately e.e;
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Chainsaw Guitar on February 09, 2010, 03:47:18 AM
...Or maybe I should buy those arcade pads? ... Although they cost a fortune. :(

Man, I'm a poor-fag and I have two of them. :V
(But to be fair, one of them was a gift.)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Nyyl on February 09, 2010, 05:15:52 AM
Keyboard + Extremely fine movements don't go together.
I use a keyboard and I don't seem to have a problem with it, but maybe I just think that because I haven't tried a controller :V
Now I'm curious. I should borrow a 360 controller from a friend and see how I do.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: P♂ zeal on February 09, 2010, 09:16:05 PM
I use a controller, and I have since I started.
I play occasionally with a keyboard, but it feels weird and I usually switch back to controller halfway through
I dont think It does lol, its too easy to accidently go sideways or have trouble with the god damn dead zone  >:(

Arrg want to use that controllers D pad if it'd just bloomin accept control from it.
try downloading something like joy2key and setting the D-pad to the direction keys.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on February 12, 2010, 03:33:49 AM
I'm using a pad (2 pad in fact, the 360 usb, but the d-pad sux and the stick is not adapted for quick move, and the madcatz street fighter pad, with a real d-pad).
It takes some time to feel it (the diagonals move are hard because the d-pad is much larger), but it's pretty good.

The problem of the 360 pcb based pad are that touhou only recognize the stick, and not the d-pad. You must install a remapper (like x-padder, but it's a shareware now I don't know if you can still find its older freeware version) and map keyboard on the pad, and voila, it works fine. :)

For the ps3 pads, you must install drivers. Problem is if you're using seven 64b (and maybe Vista 64b, C/D needed), you can't install an unsigned driver. There are workaround, but it's dirty and not timeproof: Microsoft often patch the workaround.

Didn't tested an arcade stick but I think I will in the feature (maybe I'll buy/make one when SSF4 is here).

Oh, first post btw, hey. o/
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Zakenna on February 15, 2010, 07:13:27 AM
I use an Arcade stick...am I the only one that does this? Can't play Shmups or fighters on anything else now(and all the Windows TH games fall into those two categories)

anyway

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7489/img2117j.th.jpg) (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/img2117j.jpg/)
One on the left is my Shmup stick(Converted from a Madcatz SFIV TE Fightstick) with Full Seimitsu parts .Middle one is my traveling fight stick has full Sanwa. (I made that one my self with some friends). The one on the right is my starter stick my friends and I made about two years ago that started this Arcade stick Fetish that I have. I also have another stick with an American SF layout and Happ parts(typical parts you'd find in an American Arcade Cab)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on February 15, 2010, 04:52:43 PM
I'd love to try Zakenna. :)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Azure Lazuline on February 16, 2010, 06:47:14 AM
I use a keyboard, but I usually strongly prefer a controller for every other game. I occasionally play Touhou with an SNES controller for the heck of it, though.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Silentsword on February 17, 2010, 02:32:14 AM
Except for PoFV/IMP/SWR/UNL, I am a diehard keyboarder.  A lot of this is practice - I've gotten to the point where I can easily do one or two pixel moves with Marisa focused on the keyboard. 

I can't use a keyboard with PoFV, though, because of a left-hand RSI that I aggravate if I do.  Similarly, I'm considering moving over to controller now that I'm starting to scorerun, because of an injury to my right hand (shattered both bones in my wrist during law school...not fun)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Drak on February 17, 2010, 10:14:39 AM
Tried with a X360 controller yesterday. I found the D-pad's sensitivity painfully high - the smallest move I could do with it was almost twice the lenght of a move I can do with keyboard. Going to try lowering the sensitivity and try playing again with it, since playing with a controller seemed quite enjoyable as well, minus this sensitivity problem I encountered, but which should be easily changed to lower and thereby a lot more playable.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: BM01 on February 19, 2010, 03:58:03 PM
Keyboard for me.
A controller is good too, but only with a good one, with a good D-pad like this (http://www.gamesarefun.com/consoles/ps2/segasat.jpg) (the xbox360 controller probably has the worst D-pad ever made :/).
I also have an arcade stick, altought it's really good for fighting game, I don't like it for shoot 'em up.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Rheeve on February 26, 2010, 10:26:01 PM
Keyboard at the moment for me.
Have gone from keyboard to PS1 pad to keyboard to PS1 pad and now back to Keyboard. Did some modding to my Keyboard tho, put some wire inside the arrow keys so that i only need to put minimal pressure on the keys for a keypress to register. makes wonders for fine movements. :D
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Ghaleon on February 26, 2010, 10:43:27 PM
I'm thinking of getting a stick but I can't really afford one.

What exactly makes a cheap stick bad however? Do they break for no reason with time? Do they not respond sometimes? I just can't understand how a stick can be bad >=P.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Chainsaw Guitar on February 27, 2010, 12:01:43 AM
^ You answered your own question. A bad stick is fragile as fuck.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on March 05, 2010, 08:15:44 PM
New keyboard aquired. PCB, or ESoD to test?

I haven't 1cc'd either for sucky keyboard prior, not having vsync back then, and just plain stupid deaths. Now is the time to try again!  >:(
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Udongein on March 05, 2010, 10:10:21 PM
New keyboard aquired. PCB, or ESoD to test?

I haven't 1cc'd either for sucky keyboard prior, not having vsync back then, and just plain stupid deaths. Now is the time to try again!  >:(
PCB.

On topic: My keyboard, as the faded arrow keys will tell.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on March 06, 2010, 09:05:45 AM
lol, I tried them both. Somehow, my bomb reactions were so slow that I was bombing AFTER respawn. oh dear. I did really well on PCB though till stage 3. at which point it turned into a spoonfest.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: orinrin on March 07, 2010, 01:26:32 AM
I bought an cheap arcade stick for about $10 and its actually pretty fun using it.

I think I might actually spend money on a quality stick now that I know its worth an investment.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Chronojet ⚙ Dragon on March 07, 2010, 04:23:59 AM
I feel that
pad
isn't that responsive.
What.

If you've gotten really comfortable with using one, don't switch. It's really hard to get used to something else. For example. I just tried playing Touhou 10.5 with a joystick. it's as hard as hell to move around.

I'd say just use what you think is easiest to work with.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on March 07, 2010, 11:45:00 AM
I bought an cheap arcade stick for about $10 and its actually pretty fun using it.

I think I might actually spend money on a quality stick now that I know its worth an investment.

Maybe I need one with a bomb thumb button lol. I just cant seem to get my left hand to sync with the right at the moment resulting in comic StB death or utter bomb failure.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Lucarius on March 08, 2010, 02:42:31 AM
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7189154

I would love to play Touhou on this.

I play both fighter and danmaku with a keyboard.

Most of the better Japanese players play with controllers, but a few who surpass the better play with a keyboard.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kefit on March 08, 2010, 03:25:30 AM
Oh hey one of these topics.

I use keyboard exclusively for the shooting games. My skill with the arrow keys was built up by years of emulator play on keyboard in my youth, followed by a couple of years of hardcore one handed Stepmania playing.

I once tried a ps2 pad, and the less said about that the better. And joysticks make me die in easy platforming games, I have no idea how anyone uses them for anything.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: orinrin on March 08, 2010, 03:57:23 AM
Joysticks should be called prosticks.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on March 08, 2010, 04:12:13 AM
I've been keyboarding PCB still, I can make it to Yuyu-chan on Hard, still can't beat her T-T I can make it to Chen in the EX stage, but I always die on her 1st Non-spell or her Oni Sign "Red Oni, Blue Oni", aka You Lose "Red Pill, Blue Pill" :(
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Chronojet ⚙ Dragon on March 08, 2010, 05:27:58 AM
I've been keyboarding PCB still, I can make it to Yuyu-chan on Hard, still can't beat her T-T I can make it to Chen in the EX stage, but I always die on her 1st Non-spell or her Oni Sign "Red Oni, Blue Oni", aka You Lose "Red Pill, Blue Pill" :(
Ugh. At least I can make it to the Prismrivers on Lunatic and reach Ran... with a bit of luck...
Go Keyboard.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: tone on March 10, 2010, 03:32:17 PM
I play with an arcade stick. Not a fan of pads, and I don't like keyboard either, mainly due to me being confined to a laptop. It's just not comfortable.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Widermelonz on March 12, 2010, 01:23:38 AM
I've just recently acquired an arcade stick, but it doesn't translate to shumps as well as I expected it to be. It works wonders with fighters though.

I have one complaint about it though. I'm not sure if this is prevalent among arcade sticks or if it's just mine, but whenever I move the stick in a direction it makes a loud clicking sound. Well, it's not really loud, but it is noticeable. It's really awkward to play games and constantly hear CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK. But, I think I'm getting used to it by now.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Zakenna on March 12, 2010, 02:07:36 AM
I've just recently acquired an arcade stick, but it doesn't translate to shumps as well as I expected it to be. It works wonders with fighters though.

I have one complaint about it though. I'm not sure if this is prevalent among arcade sticks or if it's just mine, but whenever I move the stick in a direction it makes a loud clicking sound. Well, it's not really loud, but it is noticeable. It's really awkward to play games and constantly hear CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK-CLICK. But, I think I'm getting used to it by now.
and for a quick retort on why your arcade stick might not feel right. Most arcade sticks you can buy commercially are actually designed with fighting games in mind. Usually these will have Sanwa JLF joysticks or JLF knockoff (the regular Hori Real Arcade Pros, Hori EX, All Madcatz SEs and TEs) While most shmup players prefer a Seimitsu as their stick of choice(more specific models would be LS-32 and LS-50). Which is why when Hori made the Mushihime Sama HRAP they used an LS-32 for the stick. Reason why is because the sticks have a shorter activation distance(the Throw) and the springs have more tensions so the sticks feel tighter and you're able to do more precise movements.  So you can use that stick to get used to sticks in general but if you ever want to do Lunatic with a stick I'd suggest modding it with Seimitsu parts. Although if you're using it for IaMP, SWR or 12.3 then you're golden

also that clicking sound is the sounds of the microswitches activating. usually you don't hear a loud clicking from Keyboards and Gamepads because they use a membrane pad to make a connection. The clicking means your microswitches work. TBH I love microswitches  :* , they last longer than membrane, are more responsive, and give a tactile feedback which is why I use a DAS II keyboard (a Microswitch under every key)

But yeah they're loud so if that bothers you then should move back to pad or Keyboard since all sticks will be like that or louder
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Widermelonz on March 12, 2010, 07:03:56 AM
and for a quick retort on why your arcade stick might not feel right. Most arcade sticks you can buy commercially are actually designed with fighting games in mind. Usually these will have Sanwa JLF joysticks or JLF knockoff (the regular Hori Real Arcade Pros, Hori EX, All Madcatz SEs and TEs) While most shmup players prefer a Seimitsu as their stick of choice(more specific models would be LS-32 and LS-50). Which is why when Hori made the Mushihime Sama HRAP they used an LS-32 for the stick. Reason why is because the sticks have a shorter activation distance(the Throw) and the springs have more tensions so the sticks feel tighter and you're able to do more precise movements.  So you can use that stick to get used to sticks in general but if you ever want to do Lunatic with a stick I'd suggest modding it with Seimitsu parts. Although if you're using it for IaMP, SWR or 12.3 then you're golden

also that clicking sound is the sounds of the microswitches activating. usually you don't hear a loud clicking from Keyboards and Gamepads because they use a membrane pad to make a connection. The clicking means your microswitches work. TBH I love microswitches  :* , they last longer than membrane, are more responsive, and give a tactile feedback which is why I use a DAS II keyboard (a Microswitch under every key)

But yeah they're loud so if that bothers you then should move back to pad or Keyboard since all sticks will be like that or louder

Ah, that explains why the Mushihimesama machine at my nearby arcade feels different than most other machines there.

And the clicking doesn't really bother me that much. It's just something that's quite noticeable in the quietness of my room compared the arcades, where loud sounds are blaring at you from all directions.

Also, thanks for the tip about the Seimitsu sticks. I'll looking into it.

Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: J.O.B on March 13, 2010, 01:37:19 AM
I have been using a keyboard ever since I started playing touhou
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on March 13, 2010, 04:29:20 AM
also that clicking sound is the sounds of the microswitches activating. usually you don't hear a loud clicking from Keyboards and Gamepads because they use a membrane pad to make a connection. The clicking means your microswitches work. TBH I love microswitches  :* , they last longer than membrane, are more responsive, and give a tactile feedback which is why I use a DAS II keyboard (a Microswitch under every key)

My keyboard:

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/th_pckeyboards_2029_635337.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/?action=view&current=pckeyboards_2029_635337.jpg)

*clack clack clack*
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tonepoet on March 18, 2010, 10:22:44 PM
I prefer to use a controller to play both Cave Story and Touhou. With Touhou however, any control method I use, even the keyboard, kinda hurts my hands since I'm doing so much work with my hands it's not even funny.

I have two 15th anniversary Street Fighter (http://www.the-nextlevel.com/reviews/ps2/street-fighter-anniversary-collection/sf-ps2-controller-ryu.jpg) PS1 controllers I got for about 20 bucks each. If you don't care about diminishing the collector's value, they're soooooo much better for 2D games than the PS2 ones; combining the D-pad and face button count of the Genesis, with relatively even button alignment and shoulder buttons giving it some SNES-like qualities. The grip is ergonomically well shaped and the controller is lighter than it looks in person, although it feels a bit thicker than the average controller. Don't get too attached to the designs though because they're painted on and rub off easily, same for the face markings of the buttons. Misc. considerations include alternate character themes including Chun Li, Guile, Ken and Akuma.

I lost the one I was using though and don't want to wear down the other in the same way, so I'd resorted to a PS2 controller. It works great for Cave Story but I miss the circular D-pad and find the layout a bit cumbersome for Touhou. I must admit though, it's a lot better than any PS2 knockoff.

Over any other controller though, I'd probably prefer the SNES one. It has the most accessible shoulder buttons, since they're so big and the shape so thin and familiar. I've played great a many a game with it and never had a problem really, so I kinda doubt hand fatigue would be as much of an issue. On that last point, I could be wrong though, since Touhou makes one great series without representation in the SNES lineup and I rarely have problems otherwise. Also, fewer buttons means less confusion. Super Smartjoys adapters are a bit rare though, now that the company is out of business and I'd personally consider it a sin to try to cut the wires in an attempt to convert it to USB, even if I felt confident I had the skills required.

Joysticks are tempting but most either look like toys or are simply out of my price range. Modern finger influenced button layouts look kinda awkward too, in comparison to traditional boxy arcade layouts. Assuming I had unlimited funds, I'd like to play Touhou on a cocktail table cabinet. You know, like the little ones you'd play Mrs. Pacman at in a lil' funky bar. I think they have just the right viewing angle for Shoot 'em Ups and it'd be nice to play with a nice cup of hot cocoa and a croissant on the side to snack on during pause breaks. You'd need at least two more buttons for the games to be fully functional and it'd be much cheaper just to buy a good stick though.

Also, while I haven't played many games with them, old keyboards are indeed awesome. New ones feel almost sticky in comparison, probably due to the aforementioned membrane buttons.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on March 19, 2010, 11:25:02 AM
Joysticks are tempting but most either look like toys or are simply out of my price range. Modern finger influenced button layouts look kinda awkward too, in comparison to traditional boxy arcade layouts.
They are indeed tempting, but I'm about [--] far away from giving in and ordering one despite the expense:

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/B002FKYPU401_SX500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V2177.jpg)

The biggest downside will be initially sucking even worse than I usually do and finding the "right" way to actually use the joystick for shooters.  Most of the hand positions I know of don't appear to be conducive to streaming.

Quote
Also, while I haven't played many games with them, old keyboards are indeed awesome. New ones feel almost sticky in comparison, probably due to the aforementioned membrane buttons.

I use a clicky keyboard.  It drives me nuts to use someone else's computer simply because of how mushy the keys are.  The keys pop back up fine, but pressing the keys always makes you wonder if everyone you know has spilled a drink on their keyboard.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tonepoet on March 19, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
Even if you're willing to pay the price, the button layout is very important. Your hands might be flexible but it only feels comfortable to position themselves in so many ways to have access to the fixed position buttons. At least to me, you'd want the six main buttons tilting the opposite way, to match the angle at which your hand naturally reaches out for stuff [If you don't see what I mean, try grabbing something small directly from a 12 'o clock position with your right hand and I think you'll get it]. Then you could have a finger layout similar to that which you'd see in the original games. Forefinger bombs, middle finger fires and ring finger on focus, just like you would with your keyboard, except in reversed order since you'll be using your other hand. As it is, you're essentially one button too short and at way too steep an inclination to attempt this.

In theory, if you needed quick access to all eight buttons, that looks like it might match your hands nicely. This is because the buttons appear to be positioned in a way that considers your relative finger positioning. In actual practice however, I'd be unsure. The key purpose would be for an authentic arcade type experience and I've never really seen a cabinet that uses more than two horizontal rows of three buttons each in person. More buttons are naturally better just in case you need them but it's no good if it makes the games you actually wanna play feel wonky.

Since it's so expensive, (http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Real-Arcade-Pro-EX-SE/dp/B002FKYPU4) my suggestion is that before buying this sort of claw grip stick, go to an arcade and try out Street Fighter IV. Since their cabinet uses a similar layout, you can see how it was intended to be used and perhaps just goof off with the few buttons on the very edges to emulate how it might work for less button intensive games like shoot 'em ups. If you decide you like the exact SF4 feel, Madcatz even sells officially licensed PS3 sticks which presumably use the same parts (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FStreet-Fighter-FightStick-Tournament-Playstation-3%2Fdp%2FB001M25AY6&tag=cavesofnarshe-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) in the same general price range. I can't necessarily endorse this stick myself, since I've not taken such preliminary steps or even tried the actual product. However when spending so much, I think it's quite nice to have an approximate, well played and physically playable facsimile of what you'd actually be getting.

Edit: Assuming they're actually out in the western world yet. I read an article saying they may not be, so, um, oops. Maybe though?

Edit 2: Changed the SF4 T.E. stick from a 130 dollar Newegg link to a since price reduced 100 dollar Amazon link. Also accidentally deleted the original SF4 cabinet article I linked and mildly adjusted the post to compensate.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on March 19, 2010, 09:19:58 PM
I've used what looks to be a nigh identical button layout on another HRAP (not the same model, it was hooked up to a PS2 playing Melty Blood) and the button layout worked for me.  One disclaimer is that I didn't spend a ton of time on it, namely because I don't really care for fighters and the people I used to know that played them (I might actually give IaMP and SWR a try after getting a stick since I'm somewhat interested in the endings which aren't available on the wiki, though).

I normally use a claw position on the keys when playing Touhou (no choice on that), and use a claw grip with both my pinky and ring finger gripping the right side of the mouse instead of resting on the right button (I've seen some people do that with their ring finger, but not often) and lip.  My left hand is also used to some funky positioning due to other games I've played due to the sheer amount of keybinds and macros I set up to use modifier keys (imagine basically everyone button around ASD being bound to an ability with alternate functions depending on whether CTRL, ALT, or Shift was depressed) and the fact that I use lots of shortcuts on the PC (Eclipse and vim being the top two reasons).  Oh, and I used to play the sax ;)

I have a fairly "long" hand relative to my height.  At least in high school the overall length was approximately the same as my more vertically gifted friends who were up to 10" taller than me (I'm 5'8"), and practically all of that extra length is in the fingers.  That earned some annoying nicknames from some people (one guy's sister started calling me "spider boy"), along with some (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/Emoticons/winky.gif) comments by others.  On my old mouse (the venerable Logitech MX-510) if I were to try using a palm grip my fingers would usually press the top lip of the mouse, above the main buttons.

I do not, however, have hands like the great Jewish bear (Evander on the PA forums):

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/100_0844.jpg)

That said, my hands have made finding a suitable control pad rather troublesome.  For instance, I'm among what seems to be the minority of people that believe that the PS2/PS3 controller is one of the most uncomfortable controllers that we've ever used in our life.  It's way worse than The Duke (original Xbox controller), which was actually almost comfortable other than it eventually causing joint pain in one part of my hand (whatever that bit that your thumb is connected to and extends to your wrist...the joint that runs along it to the web of your thumb).  So usually the size of a controller is an issue for comfort, and when it is tolerable for more than 20 or 30 minutes at a time I find I don't like either the D-pad (some of them are about as terrible as the 360's) or the buttons.

Thus far that curved button layout is the best thing I've found for my fingers (my right hand is the main problem).  I don't have to keep them in an excessively arched position when playing, which is what I'm currently forced to do and it makes my middle finger in particular hurt a fair bit after a while (I do take breaks).  I find that playing SHMUPs with a keyboard to be more fatiguing for my hand than playing Team Fortress 2 for 5+ hours without a break.

Really, the only issue is how much it costs and that I'm not able to borrow one to see how it is for a long enough time to actually get used to the stick itself.  I'm pretty frugal, so my initial reaction is that spending $140 is less than wise for a game accessory even though I can afford it.  On the other hand I spent a fair bit of money on my mechanical keyboard simply because it's a far better choice than the cheaper options, and being able to enjoy Touhou again without my hands hating me later would be worth it (especially now that I've burned myself out on TF2).  It's not like I've found a suitable gamepad over the years, and the cheaper arcade stick options use inferior parts (the buttons on those Hori fightsticks are rather mushy).
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tonepoet on March 20, 2010, 11:03:24 PM
Hmm, for better or for worse, I can't quite honestly say I'm not one of the many who thinks the original xBox controller's impossibly gargantuan, so you must indeed have rather big masculine hands. It's a great trait for many skills, although I can see how it'd be crippling in this particular set of circumstances. The average controller is designed for the average hand, as to appease as many different people as possible with one mass produced design. If you have differing needs from the people who designed them, you're pretty much out of luck unfortunately.

Since you like them, do you actually have an xBox controller yourself? If so, my recommendation would be to buy an adapter, similar to the one I use. It'd only run you around 10-20 bucks and this sort of product typically contains HID controllers, so assuming your game already has the built in joypad support, it'd be a simple matter of plug 'n play for any basic wired device. If you're interested, try looking on Amazon, I think I saw some there once. Variants are made for just about every controller really if you have others in mind, although usually you have to use the basic, wired variant.

As for joysticks, I was more concerned about button angle, than I was about the clawgrip, however disproportionately my attention was directed. As such, I thought something like this (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2007/05/decent_cheap_us/) seems like it'd be more conducive to the inwards pointing angle of one's arm, especially if you find yourself tilting your keyboard to the left all the time. That one in particular gives me all the bad vibes of modernization though but it's just a hunch. Can't be sure without firsthand experience, which is a bit of a gamble unfortunately.

On another note entirely, playing the sax sounds quite cool. You spoke of it in the past tense though, so that makes me wonder, is there any reason in particular why you stopped?
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Oneofmany on March 21, 2010, 01:12:09 AM
For me it really depends on what kind of game I'm playing most of the time I use Keyboard, I really never used a controller before on my PC I didn't know you can do that, lol I guess I can find one for my PC now.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Prime 2.0 on March 21, 2010, 01:21:02 PM
Keyboard all the way.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: SupahVee1234 on March 23, 2010, 04:52:07 PM
I've finally managed to get my PS3 controller working on my PC. I tried playing some Touhou games, but it seems I can only move in 8 directions. Is this the correct behavior? If so, I don't see any sense in using a controller instead of a keyboard.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Jaimers on March 23, 2010, 05:07:19 PM
I've finally managed to get my PS3 controller working on my PC. I tried playing some Touhou games, but it seems I can only move in 8 directions. Is this the correct behavior? If so, I don't see any sense in using a controller instead of a keyboard.

I don't think that's what's supposed to happen. Mine goes in all directions.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: SupahVee1234 on March 23, 2010, 05:15:08 PM
I don't think that's what's supposed to happen. Mine goes in all directions.

So you're not restricted to 8 directions? Do I have to set something in Touhou options? Are you using a PS3 controller aswell? If yes, what driver?
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Jaimers on March 23, 2010, 05:31:01 PM
So you're not restricted to 8 directions? Do I have to set something in Touhou options? Are you using a PS3 controller aswell? If yes, what driver?

I don't think so, I can make perfect circles and all that and I didn't change anything in the options.

I use a logitech precision gamepad (http://www.computertarget.com.au/oscom/catalog/images/Logitech_Precision-Gamepad.jpg), so maybe it has something to do with the difference between a d-pad and 4 directional buttens?
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: SupahVee1234 on March 23, 2010, 05:52:07 PM
Mh... I'm using the analog stick, not the d-pad, on my PS3 controller. I will try some other driver, I don't know.

Or I'll buy your controller.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Fenrir the Dusk on March 23, 2010, 05:54:01 PM
I've only been playing Touhou for about a month or less, and I've had my controller long since then, so I've always played the games with a controller, don't really like using a keyboard, left handed, so movement with arrow keys isn't that comfortable, only down side is that I tend to squeeze my controller a bit too hard, which results in my right hand hurting like hell afterwards.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on March 23, 2010, 06:43:34 PM
I don't think so, I can make perfect circles and all that and I didn't change anything in the options.

I use a logitech precision gamepad (http://www.computertarget.com.au/oscom/catalog/images/Logitech_Precision-Gamepad.jpg), so maybe it has something to do with the difference between a d-pad and 4 directional buttens?
Aren't you restricted to eight directions as well?  Pad, stick, or keyboard, you have four main directions (up, down, left, and right), plus the point where two buttons are being activated at the same time to give you a diagonal.  Your pad is an eight-way pad, too.

I think he is expecting the same kind of variable-speed movement as you usually get from the analog stick, not the "on or off" nature of an arcade stick or digital pad.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: SupahVee1234 on March 23, 2010, 06:53:52 PM
I'm not expecting variable movement speed.

Let me try to explain it:

I can only move in 45 degrees angles.
0,45,90,135,180,225,270,315

I want to move to 22,5 if I direct the analog stick in a 22,5 direction.

Currently, if I direct the analog stick at, for example, 35 degrees, the game still moves me at 45.



Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on March 23, 2010, 07:23:11 PM
I'm not expecting variable movement speed.

Let me try to explain it:

I can only move in 45 degrees angles.
0,45,90,135,180,225,270,315

I want to move to 22,5 if I direct the analog stick in a 22,5 direction.

Currently, if I direct the analog stick at, for example, 35 degrees, the game still moves me at 45.
That's normal AFAIK.  You can adjust the dead zone on an analog stick in the Touhou games, but you can't move in angles that aren't evenly divisible by 45.  That would give an unfair advantage to those with analog sticks :D
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: SupahVee1234 on March 23, 2010, 07:28:53 PM
 :(

back to ol'good keyboard then
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on April 02, 2010, 11:27:16 AM
I just bought a MC sf4 TE r2. <3
I'll write my thought on it on tōhō after I receive it.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Alice Fact on April 02, 2010, 12:12:11 PM
Generic, but much easier to approach than a similar topic at a certain forum.

I use keyboard, because I don't have a Saturn pad and I don't really want to use sticks.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Ionasal kkll Solciel on April 03, 2010, 10:40:10 AM
I play with both keyboard and pad - which one I use is entirely dependent on whether I'm playing on the desktop configuration or the laptop configuration.  I prefer pad, though, since I can have shot at R1 and focus at L1, with bomb at Square so they're all easily accessible. (Not to mention it works a hell of a lot better in RKS when Grolla's config works like Zero's.)

hint for pad users who can't use the dpad/analog stick: If your pad has it, try using the Analog button.  That usually swaps the stick and pad controls.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on April 06, 2010, 02:27:07 PM
I just bought a MC sf4 TE r2. <3
I'll write my thought on it on tōhō after I receive it.
Feedback, after 5h of play with the stick.
The feeling is just amazing <3 I'll never play again on a pad. :D
From start, I won precision with the stick but messed up a lot with the buttons (there are so sensitive, sanwa :/), but after 3 or 4h it was better. And I improved already. <3

The feeling is really amazing, that's like playing touhou at the arcade. <3
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: The Greatest Dog on April 06, 2010, 11:26:35 PM
Two days ago, I would have said keyboard.

Now, I'll give you this replay.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=8247
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tonepoet on April 08, 2010, 12:24:49 AM
I too went over the deep end and bought a SF IV Tournament Edition controller. The first thing I noted, right out of the box when I was eerily caressing the new toy is that it's not quite the same as I'm used to. What I'd like to mention first is that the stick isn't as rigid, which actually helps make movements feel a lot freer but also requires a bit of finesse. After that, I find the fact that the joystick has square borders rather surprising. As far as I've experimented, this'll have little or have no effect on how I play the shoot 'em ups but I wonder how it'll effect games like IAMP where I expect to be trying to throw off half and quarter circles. The third thing was the buttons, they were comparatively huge and had a convex shape to them, which is a lot more noticeable than I'd expected.

On the other hand I was quite happy to find something familiar. You see, when viewed in person, the button layout becomes much more apparent. So while two of the eight buttons are offset, you still have two neatly placed horizontal rows of buttons stacked right above each other. Since the buttons are bigger, I do find myself finding the angled set quite nifty but it's always nice to have the option of something more familiar should I feel like it.

So what do I think about it overall? Well quite frankly, despite not matching my expectancies, I must say it certainly does not disappoint. In fact, I'd say it's quite awesome. The most notable thing about it is that its highly responsive. This is a bit of a kicker at first because in combination with its free flowing nature, Marisa found herself in places she did not expect to be. However after a little adjustment, as well as a bit of rearranging my computer desk so I could stand up at it, I found it quite natural. With very light touches you can move the player character with extreme precision, focused or not and when you tilt the stick as par normal it feels as if your hand has been possessed by the character's spirit. This illusion was so believable that I find myself wanting little hand-puppets for each of the playable I.N. characters and maybe Patchy too to use whilst playing. I think it'd be quite cute to see them gripping upon the little ball-top, although come to think of it they'd have to be be facing away...

There was a little trouble with paradise however. While the buttons are configurable with just the games, neither EoSD or I.N. recognized the joystick straight off the bat. Thankfully Joy2Key allowed me to map it to the cursor keys, so no big loss there. The cord compartment is a good idea but seems a bit difficult to use. Also on the very first night of using it I noticed the downwards direction tended to squeak a little, so I sent it in on warranty. While all conversations with tech support have been kept quite civil and said they'd give it a look to see if there's a quick fix, they'd also said there is the potential that they may not be able to do anything about it should this be a fault of the manufacturer's parts (I'd presume the Sanwa buttons). This leaves me utterly stunned, since I'd think this is the one thing you'd always expect a warranty to cover. As the creme de la creme of disappointment, Namco's official shareware edition of  :V... doesn't seem to respond to it at all, even with Joy2key. It might not be Touhou but I was kinda looking forward to that. :(

On the note of compatibility, the PS3 edition may not be compatible with all P.C. hardware sets due to Sony's proprietary designs, so I ended up getting the 360 version instead, just to be safe.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Reddyne on April 08, 2010, 12:46:35 AM
I'll try a controller when I get a new PC. I've only played stuff on my PC using a keyboard before. However, playing PoFV using a controller recently left my left hand feeling 90% more carpal tunnel syndrome free.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Aisha on April 08, 2010, 02:42:05 AM
I too went over the deep end and bought a SF IV Tournament Edition controller. The first thing I noted, right out of the box when I was eerily caressing the new toy is that it's not quite the same as I'm used to. What I'd like to mention first is that the stick isn't as rigid, which actually helps make movements feel a lot freer but also requires a bit of finesse. After that, I find the fact that the joystick has square borders rather surprising. As far as I've experimented, this'll have little or have no effect on how I play the shoot 'em ups but I wonder how it'll effect games like IAMP where I expect to be trying to throw off half and quarter circles. The third thing was the buttons, they were comparatively huge and had a convex shape to them, which is a lot more noticeable than I'd expected.

Square gates are actually the standard in Japan. I think a lot of people just move the stick around with their fingers rather than with their wrist/hand to avoid getting caught in the gate's corners when playing fighters. The looser feel is probably because that controller has a Sanwa stick in it; Seimitsu sticks are tighter and generally preferred for shooters. I'd be interested to know what you think of the controller for IaMP/SWR, since you're now pretty much set up with the authentic input method for them.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on April 08, 2010, 03:38:00 AM
Square gates are actually the standard in Japan. I think a lot of people just move the stick around with their fingers rather than with their wrist/hand to avoid getting caught in the gate's corners when playing fighters. The looser feel is probably because that controller has a Sanwa stick in it; Seimitsu sticks are tighter and generally preferred for shooters. I'd be interested to know what you think of the controller for IaMP/SWR, since you're now pretty much set up with the authentic input method for them.
You can buy an octo-gate for the JLF that comes with the TE sticks, but as you mentioned Seimitsu sticks have a smaller dead-zone and throw.  The LS-56 has an octo gate available for it but you need the MS mounting plate (the VF that comes with it isn't suitable).  The standard Seimitsu stick for SHMUPs (LS-32(-01) comes with a square gate, and you can swap that out for a circular gate if you'd like.

That said, don't ride the gate.  The JLF has a long throw (the total distance you can move the stick) and dead-zone, but the engage distance (engage is when the switches activate) is much shorter than the throw.  It's a matter of finesse, but you don't need to push the stick all the way to have the movement register.  Wish a square gate the distance to a corner is twice as far as to the sides, so it isn't hard to avoid mashing down into a corner.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Valentinya on April 08, 2010, 10:56:40 AM
I use a Logitech Dual Action Gamepad to play Touhou. Originally I bought my controller because I couldn't stand using a keyboard as I had always been used to playing games with a controller. I find I just can't play games as well on a keyboard.

Although before I downloaded Xpadder I was stuck using the keyboard  for awhile with Subterranean Animism because it seems to hate my controller. I eventually got better at playing the games with a keyboard as a result. But it's been so long since I last played with a keyboard that I probably couldn't play very well with one now.

Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on April 08, 2010, 11:56:39 AM
You're more verbose then me, Tonepoet. :P
I sent my stick to warranty too, for the stick mode selection that didn't work. But after one day of play with it, I really don't regret it, I honestly thought that it's the best hardware investment I did for the last months (~year).

I tried sf4 with it too, it was really hard at the begining, the button imput where toofast (like, on a 236p, the punch was on the 3) ><. The improvements are fast tho.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tonepoet on April 08, 2010, 07:11:41 PM
Square gates are actually the standard in Japan. I think a lot of people just move the stick around with their fingers rather than with their wrist/hand to avoid getting caught in the gate's corners when playing fighters. The looser feel is probably because that controller has a Sanwa stick in it; Seimitsu sticks are tighter and generally preferred for shooters. I'd be interested to know what you think of the controller for IaMP/SWR, since you're now pretty much set up with the authentic input method for them.
You can buy an octo-gate for the JLF that comes with the TE sticks, but as you mentioned Seimitsu sticks have a smaller dead-zone and throw.  The LS-56 has an octo gate available for it but you need the MS mounting plate (the VF that comes with it isn't suitable).  The standard Seimitsu stick for SHMUPs (LS-32(-01) comes with a square gate, and you can swap that out for a circular gate if you'd like.

That said, don't ride the gate.  The JLF has a long throw (the total distance you can move the stick) and dead-zone, but the engage distance (engage is when the switches activate) is much shorter than the throw.  It's a matter of finesse, but you don't need to push the stick all the way to have the movement register.  Wish a square gate the distance to a corner is twice as far as to the sides, so it isn't hard to avoid mashing down into a corner.
I find that the square gate makes the rectangular playing field more believable. Should you want to make a big sweeping movement to dodge aimed bullets like the ones Cirno opens up with and just so happen to bump into the world's boundaries, it kinda reflects upon the general shape of the world. This shouldn't come into play often though since they activate far before the ends the edges of the map are generally where you don't want to be. I must admit my first instinct to try and throw all the way out failed rather miserably. Thankfully it's really quite easy to take note of where the switches activate because there's a very satisfying little ticking type sound when it happens. That makes picking up on what you should do instead quite a quick process.

The stick differences are interesting though. I did find myself initially expecting a smaller throw at first and I suppose that in conjunction with a tighter stick, would allow you to go back to neutral quicker. I'm not really experiencing any problems with that though and like I said before, this stick feels very quite natural. Far banking means you go far where as the simplest little finite touches move you in microns. I'd attribute this partially to the amount of time it takes to return to neutral upon, which becomes greater the farther out you go.

Also the finesse issue, it can be a bit of a double edged sword as more is required but more is allowed. While I must admit to having little frame of reference, I'd imagine that the looseness means less resistance to your will, making mid-motion adjustments a lot easier. I must also say that it makes putting in very light touches with your fingers very easy. These factors can be great for getting out of tight squeezes a lot easier. However the results of carelessness are also more accurately reflected as you can make silly decisions less hesitantly and may not be as able to just stop on a dime.

With a stiffer stick, one's touches probably wouldn't have to be as light to register small movements either, which is good should the user prove a bit too heavy handed. It may may help to prevent slip-ups as well since commands are less likely to be misregistered and the greater hesitancy would allow for greater caution. Quicker returns to neutral would also guarantees the ability to make quick stops on the dime. Essentially you're a lot less accident prone, which is very important for a long haul game like an arcade style shoot 'em up, since if you do it all in one sitting you're bound to make some eventually.

All in all I'm probably going to leave it stock as a pseudo collector's item should be, especially since it's quite impressive as is.

Quote from: Aisha
I'd be interested to know what you think of the controller for IaMP/SWR, since you're now pretty much set up with the authentic input method for them.


There's a bit of irony in the situation in that even though I got a Street Fighter Fightstick/Pad, I get really disoriented by fighting games due to their control intensive play-style. True, this style of play probably makes them the best barometer of what sort of controller is good or bad but I can't comment on my effectualness without knowing what it is I wanted to be doing. Refined articulation and crude button mashing just simply don't mix. Also keep in mind that this is my first and possibly only high-end home joystick, so I don't have much in the way of fair comparison, unless you count my keyboard/playstation controllers. That being said, I did order IaMP, Mystical Chain and Melty Blood recently, so when I get everything I need from the mail, I might try to toy around with various control schemes a bit. No promises though.

You're more verbose then me, Tonepoet. :P
I sent my stick to warranty too, for the stick mode selection that didn't work. But after one day of play with it, I really don't regret it, I honestly thought that it's the best hardware investment I did for the last months (~year).
Eheh, yeah, I do tend to go all out with my forum posts. I think it's a great use of the medium, when done properly, although I do sometimes question my ability to do that sometimes... At any rate, it's not comforting that there are two warranty calls here, although mine did seem to be fully functional. I probably wouldn't be able to really tell if my switches worked or not though, since I've only hooked it up to my computer. Hmm...
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on April 08, 2010, 10:41:53 PM
I understand quite well, I tend to do the same in my maternal language, but I'm at loss in English (so-so grammar & lack of vocabulary, even if I understand pretty well).
I have the same sensation as yours, the stick seems really natural. I miss it, I want it already. :P The gate was a surprise tho, I remember octogate at the arcade in my youth (but it was decades ago, maybe I misremember).

I'm uploading a youtube video, to expose the gain in small and precise move (micro grazing here). If you compare with another old one (like spell 147 of imperishable night) you'll see the difference & improvement. Yeah, I'm a pretty sub average player, you don't have to point that out please. :D

Here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppQK3Ukkug8 (upscalled in 720p for quality @decreasing quality of youtube, so it might be processing for a little while).


P.S.: I'm not a commercial for madcatz, or whatever. :P


@Aisha: I dunno how I have to take it. :o
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Aisha on April 08, 2010, 10:58:06 PM
Here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppQK3Ukkug8 (upscalled in 720p for quality @decreasing quality of youtube, so it might be processing for a little while).

00:18-00:19 is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: ark on April 21, 2010, 08:20:47 AM
I should try to build an arcade stick. I'm highly curious.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Moomaria on April 21, 2010, 01:54:02 PM
gamepad supremacy
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Benny1 on April 21, 2010, 03:45:05 PM
I use keyboard, years of fighting games emulated has made me quite skilled with keyboard.  At this point I actually do use an arcade stick for all fighting games, but I still like to use a keyboard for Touhou.  There are some things I don't like about arcade sticks and I feel these things would definitely show up more in Touhou than in a fighting game.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on April 21, 2010, 06:54:42 PM
There are some things I don't like about arcade sticks and I feel these things would definitely show up more in Touhou than in a fighting game.
Such as?  Usually the stick itself is the main complaint, and that's because the most common stick isn't made for SHMUPs (the Sanwa JLF).
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: The Greatest Dog on April 25, 2010, 03:34:58 AM
Alright... I've tried using a controller now for most of the Windows Touhou games now, but I'm going to conclude that due to my play style for every game that isn't UFO (stay on the bottom of the screen and hold down to reduce horizontal movement speed), I'm vastly used to the keyboard.

When using a controller, I just can't seem to consistently get that spot between down and left or right exactly when I want it.

Of course, for UFO, you're going to be punished severely for staying on the bottom for 99% of the game, so my skill dramatically goes up when I use a controller for UFO only... Seriously, look at this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVyhjKO8Tgw#t=8m34s) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abrhMHVmY0c#t=5m20s) and tell me you could make those kind of movements on a keyboard.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tonepoet on April 26, 2010, 05:02:20 AM
As far as the fighters go I really do suck too much to say. I'm not really sure what I'm doing with IAMP. Seems very gauge based, which is troublesome since I don't know what the curved one does. I'll probably have to look up a gameplay guide on the Wiki to get the gist of what to do. Even further complicating the issue is deciding upon a button layout. In an Arcade you're just stuck with whatever they give you. I'd try to emulate what I'm used to, except these doujin fighters use a four button layout which gives me a lot to speculate on. There are multiple configurations I could use. Comfort lends itself most to an upside-down T but I'm fairly sure I've never seen any cabinet laid out like that before. Multiple spread line configurations come to mind too, as well as  the square. The only in-game hing I can say with any certainty at the moment is that I have to act with a bit of speed restriction to have the quarter circles, which kinda disrupts my personal flow.

The more interesting bit about it though is that I got a PS3, so naturally I got PS3 versions of the stick. It works with my computer at the least and a bit more functionally than the 360 version too. The Touhou games readily recognize the joystick without needing to configure Joy2Key if I have it set to left-stick (something the 360 version does not do) and it even works on my OSX partition. IAMP's configuration tool seems not to play nicely with Joy2Key either, meaning I'm actually quite stuck with the PS3 stick when playing it, not that it really makes a difference. Granted this is only helpful if your computer recognizes the joystick to begin with, which may rely upon several factors which I've only read about second hand.

Melty Blood will work with either version without external aid by the way.


Quote from: Benny1
    There are some things I don't like about arcade sticks and I feel these things would definitely show up more in Touhou than in a fighting game.
Such as?  Usually the stick itself is the main complaint, and that's because the most common stick isn't made for SHMUPs (the Sanwa JLF).
  I doubt that's it. With the way the statement was phrased, he seems to not like sticks in general, even for fighters and uses them as an alternative to something even worse. If I had to guess, I'd imagine that a joystick's buttons would be closer to a keyboard than a joypad so he might be talking about console games, since you usually can't use keyboards for those. Still, that's only a guess though.

Quote from: Fox Fanatic
Alright... I've tried using a controller now for most of the Windows Touhou games now, but I'm going to conclude that due to my play style for every game that isn't UFO (stay on the bottom of the screen and hold down to reduce horizontal movement speed), I'm vastly used to the keyboard.

When using a controller, I just can't seem to consistently get that spot between down and left or right exactly when I want it.

Of course, for UFO, you're going to be punished severely for staying on the bottom for 99% of the game, so my skill dramatically goes up when I use a controller for UFO only... Seriously, look at this and this and tell me you could make those kind of movements on a keyboard.

I'm going to be a bit presumptuous again for another moment and imagine that your D-pad is cross style as opposed to circular style. With a cross style d-pad you have to use your thumb to press both points at once to combine vertical and horizontal movements, which can be kinda tricky. The circular ones bridge those points, so you can press on the space between or even just tip them more along the horizontal plane.  Then again, with left/right being your primary movement modality, tying in the horizontal axis with the vertical axis might not be such a good thing. It gives you the chance to make a dreadful slip-up[wards]  in a moment of clumsiness. You really would get few benefits using the D-pad if you're never going to use the full freedom of movement the game provides you with anyway, as the D-pad's main benefits come from utilizing the fluidity of your thumb socket.

There is another option though and I'm willing to bet it's something you're able to do. All of the directions can be assigned to any other button on the controller, without disabling any part of the D-pad. Since you only need three buttons for Touhou and most gamepads have at least four, this means you could just assign Down to the erroneous button and activate it like a special ability. Since that's kinda how you're already using it anyway, this might prove a bit more fruitful for you than relying on the D-pad alone. Additionally, it may be a bit of an odd thought but you could also take this idea a bit further by setting your shoulder buttons to stride. At least, assuming you have any that is. This will provide you with the restrictive safety you're used to with the keyboard while giving you ready access to the D-pad should you ever want it.  I just tested this with EoSD and I.N. myself, so it really should work. Hopefully it's helpful to ya.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on April 26, 2010, 07:36:01 AM
It works with my computer at the least and a bit more functionally than the 360 version too. The Touhou games readily recognize the joystick without needing to configure Joy2Key if I have it set to left-stick (something the 360 version does not do)
This seems to be a problem with Touhou and IAMP/SWR.  The 360 stick will appear to use the stick as a POV hat, and the games don't accept that for input.  The 360 stick's switch will in fact change what inputs the stick sends to the PC, as tested under Linux (Arch Linux, xpad driver).  In all likelyhood it just boils down to the games not supporting controllers that use Xinput (which is what the 360 uses, and is supported by DirectX 9+).

Quote
IAMP's configuration tool seems not to play nicely with Joy2Key either, meaning I'm actually quite stuck with the PS3 stick when playing it, not that it really makes a difference.
Neither does SWR's.  You can actually use it with it, but if you try to select a character after setting up Joy2Key for the directions it'll switch to reading your stick and ignore what you've done with Joy2Key.  If you pick a character and start a match with the keyboard you can then use the arcade stick for actual play.  Note that this is annoying as hell, so I haven't been playing SWR.  I haven't tried actually remapping the buttons their selves to see if SWR will detect that first instead of the stick.  The next time I'm in Windows I'll have to try it.

Other games like SFIV work fine, and you can have the stick work with MAME as well.

Quote
Granted this is only helpful if your computer recognizes the joystick to begin with, which may rely upon several factors which I've only read about second hand.
The PS3 versions use UHCI to communicate with the PC, and only Intel and VIA chipsets use it.  Basically every other USB device on the market uses OHCI, including the 360 stick.  Since I don't have an Intel CPU/chipset the PS3 version wasn't an option for me.


EDIT:  Looked up some programming details for the 360 controllers/sticks and might have a simple fix that I'll have to test.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Tonepoet on April 26, 2010, 06:56:28 PM
The PoV hat thing makes sense, since the 360 T.E. only displays one means of input where as the PS3 version shows several. I guess that means Touhou only recognizes X/Y axises, since if I set the thing to RS the Z axis/rotation settings aren't recoginzed either and DP is the PoV Switch mode.

Quote
The PS3 versions use UHCI to communicate with the PC, and only Intel and VIA chipsets use it.  Basically every other USB device on the market uses OHCI, including the 360 stick.  Since I don't have an Intel CPU/chipset the PS3 version wasn't an option for me.
I've done a lot of reading up on the issue but withheld the information because I can't come to anything conclusive based upon what I've got. You see, in addition to the VIA USB Controllers, some people seem to claim that the problem lies in NIVIDIA graphics cards. Since my stock 2008 2.8ghz Core Duo 2 iMac uses an ATI Radeon 2600 Pro, I can't rule that out as a possibility myself.

Quote
Neither does SWR's.  You can actually use it with it, but if you try to select a character after setting up Joy2Key for the directions it'll switch to reading your stick and ignore what you've done with Joy2Key.  If you pick a character and start a match with the keyboard you can then use the arcade stick for actual play.  Note that this is annoying as hell, so I haven't been playing SWR.  I haven't tried actually remapping the buttons their selves to see if SWR will detect that first instead of the stick.  The next time I'm in Windows I'll have to try it.

Soo you're saying to set some erroneous Sanwa buttons to directions, in the hopes that IAMP won't look to override j2k's joystick settings when the round starts? <Tonepoet tries that>  Nope, kills the stick regardless, and not even those buttons seem not to work as directional inputs. Even worse, the action keys stubbornly seem not to be what I set them to. Funnily enough though, if you manage to pause the game, you can still use the 360 stick to navigate the pause menu. How odd that the menus seem to readily recognize j2k but not the actual battles. It'd be better if it was the other way around, since it's the actual fighting you want the controller for most.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on April 26, 2010, 08:39:57 PM
Well, I've had some success (no thanks to Microsoft):

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_eureka.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=eureka.png)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: ravaens on April 27, 2010, 02:59:11 AM
I don't even have luxury to try out any other option besides keyboard  :(

Looking at all the posts I am surprised how many are finding controller easier to use because I believed using controller requires greater motion to move rather than simply clicking the button, though I may be misguided in this belief as I never used one before.

Either way, thinking about how I never even touched something resembling controller in my entire game life, I expect my skill to decrease horrendously using such devices really.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on May 05, 2010, 11:17:24 AM
Well, I've had some success (no thanks to Microsoft):

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_eureka.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=eureka.png)
I'm pretty interested, if you could give some details (or even more). =)
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Nyyl on May 05, 2010, 01:00:07 PM
Ack... I tried a 360 controller, and couldn't even go one stage without dying... I even tried adjusting the sensitivity all around. I think I'll stick to keyboard. A controller makes the fighting games way easier though! >:D
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on May 05, 2010, 10:55:29 PM
I'm pretty interested, if you could give some details (or even more). =)
I'm waiting to see if someone from MadCatz can get some of the information I need to make the process a little easier.  Basically, you have to:

Annoying as hell, but that's Microsoft for you >:(
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on May 06, 2010, 12:26:56 AM
Ok. I used that method in the past to try the ps3 controller, but I went back on 360one because I don't like disabling that sort of things. It sucks that it can't be bypass. =(
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on May 06, 2010, 01:30:23 AM
Ok. I used that method in the past to try the ps3 controller, but I went back on 360one because I don't like disabling that sort of things. It sucks that it can't be bypass. =(
You didn't have to go through as many hoops to make it work in the past, but Microsoft made it harder with Vista SP1.

For me, the choice is simple: my arcade stick doesn't work with either the Touhou SHMUPs or fighting games when I use Microsoft's drivers, and it does with the XBCD drivers.  One day I'll mod my stick with a multi-console Cthulhu, but until then this will do.

Things are actually easier on Linux than Windows :3
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kayin on May 08, 2010, 04:10:49 AM
Arcade stick for me, it's what I prefer for all arcade style games. Though pad (Saturn/PS2) isn't as unmanageable for me for shmups as fighting games, I still prefer it.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on May 09, 2010, 01:46:25 AM
I resigned to use it again, but I can't put it to work the way I want.
With a default settings, things are almost great : newer games works fine with the stick config on LS. No remanence input created by the way the stick don't reset to neutral position instantly.
But in older games (only tried in th08), the remanence is here.
The best fix I think about is to force touhou to recognize the POV input and not the axis x&y, but I can't find a way to do that ... if I change the leftstick to input POV in xbcd, it's doesn't work.
It's late, so I'm tired and I might miss something ...

edit: like usual, I find a way just after posting somewhere. Configuring dpad on axis x&y might works fine.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Barrakketh on May 10, 2010, 06:14:39 AM
I copied IN to my flash drive so I could test it in Windows.  My stick worked perfectly when set to LS, played through stage one just to make sure nothing funky happened.

That was with XBCD 0.27.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: shinmasaki on May 28, 2010, 06:19:13 AM
just thought I'd throw this out there.

I play with a logitech PC gaming controller. I find it works quite well for me. I've tried playing on a keyboard, but having been a console gamer since back in the days of the Atari 2600, I grew up on controllers rather than keyboards (not the Atari...but every console past that). One thing that gets me a little ticked is at the people out there who rave about how if you are not playing on a keyboard, you may as well not play Touhou at all and how keyboard is infinitely better than any other medium of playing Touhou. Then there are others who complain that the game is impossible to play on anything but a keyboard, etc etc. I really dislike ignorance like that. Just ranting a bit, don't mind me.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Infy♫ on May 29, 2010, 11:36:15 AM
to play touhou i use the keyboard, arrow keys.
for FPS games I use the insert, home, delete, end, page up, page down and 7 numberkeypad key.
it's really much better than your average WSAD config.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: eternal on June 02, 2010, 03:17:05 PM
I highly doubt I'd be able to play Touhou with anything other than a keyboard. It has a bit to do with the fact that I'm used to it, but it still feels more precise to me. Same goes with playing on a computer screen rather than a TV; I have to slide right in front of my TV to see the bullets when I play Mushihimesama, and even then I end up dying by moving too fast with the arcade stick. I imagine that problem would go away with a bit more practice though.

Anyway, shmups are obviously playable with any type of controller, but I like being able to tap a key on my keyboard and know that I'll only move a fraction of an inch.
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Whinette on July 28, 2010, 06:12:14 PM
Oh btw, I bought the ls-56 +  an octogate. It's amazing, the feeling is even more good than with the jlf. Its deadzone is near zero, and the course of the shaft is pretty short. Small precise movement are back. :)

(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/79abbb47-54d0-43d7-9839-4b38ddd5b36b.jpg) (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/79abbb47-54d0-43d7-9839-4b38ddd5b36b.jpg)

(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/6d620e05-ec30-4698-a706-96632ae39065.jpg) (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/6d620e05-ec30-4698-a706-96632ae39065.jpg)

(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/40027126-c43d-4603-91d9-141bf556c504.jpg) (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/40027126-c43d-4603-91d9-141bf556c504.jpg)

(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/b52be6d4-40bf-4b55-bdb5-361f1e08039b.jpg) (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/b52be6d4-40bf-4b55-bdb5-361f1e08039b.jpg)

Now, I have to change the art ...
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: Kayin on July 29, 2010, 02:55:07 AM
Wow, that's a pretty awesome stick.

Totally not a fan of octogates though. :V
Title: Re: Keyboard, Controller, or Arcade Stick?
Post by: null1024 on July 29, 2010, 03:21:47 AM
I use a keyboard myself, but I'd love to have a stick of my own, as I'm about as good on a stick as I am with the keyboard.
I suck with pads though.