Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread

[commandercool]

Yeah, and it's pretty cheap aside from Kumena. Unfortunately the deck really isn't the same without him so you can't really leave him out, but I guess that's why he's expensive...

[commandercool]

Alright, the Masters 25 previews begin and we already have a new Pauper card. Balduvian Horde is down from rare to common. I doubt any deck wants it, but I guess it's possible some Hellbent deck could form around it as a fringe option. I think the problem is that many of the decks that it might hypothetically slot into can run Gurmag Angler...

Pillage is also down to common. Stone Rain sees some fringe play in Pauper and a more flexible Stone Rain is theoretically good, but I'm not sure any deck wants to deal with the more stringent cost since land destruction kind of needs to be on-curve to be great.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Relentless Rats is getting shifted down to common

this ought to be entertaining

[commandercool]

Yeah, I'm reeeeally interested to see where that goes for Pauper. It should go... at least somewhere? I'm not sure if it has the potential to be anything but a fringe deck, but it might.

Part of the problem with Relentless Rats is that it's just a worse slivers unless you're playing more than twelve copies. Arguably more than 16 copies. Or you really care about being mono-black, which to be fair is relevant. I assume any rats deck will be playing four Gray Merchants...

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Full gallery for Masters 25 is up.

There's a lot of good cards in here I like, even among the commons and uncommons. There's all-time classics like Lightning Bolt and Brainstorm, Modern  like Cursecatcher and Simian Spirit Guide, Pauper pieces like Nettle Sentinel, and a lot of cards that are just fun in casual play.

My only complaint is that we could have used a Gush reprint, but I mean, considering how much they had to do with this set, getting it almost completely right isn't bad

[commandercool]

I'll have to take the time to pick the list apart later, but there's some good stuff in there. Notably missing are Gush, Needle Drop, and (unsurprisingly) the Pauper boogeyman Oubliette.

Honestly I'd just like to see an Oubliette ban at this point until it gets a reprint. A prohibitively expensive and extremely competitive Pauper archetype is against the spirit of the format, and Merchant Control is still perfectly functional without it, if significantly worse. I don't think it's format-breaking, but it is problematic.

Edit: I didn't realize how crazy Loyal Sentry is in the Pauper meta until The Professor pointed it out. It's definitely the best anti-Bogles tech we have and comes in against Eye Candy and Heroic as well. I think it'll force Bogles to dilute their sideboards and post-board decks with Pacifism at the very least, which is always nice, and it probably lets everyone else reclaim a few sideboard slots. And I like the idea of it with Grim Harvest in Pestilence...

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

well uh

a bunch of Dominaria stuff got accidentally leaked on the WOTC Chinese website so they decided to get in front of it and print the official release notes in all languages

it's on the official website, I won't link it here out of respect for people who don't want to see spoilers

[commandercool]

I tried to read it but gave up pretty fast. A huge infodump with no images is kind of hard to parse. And Wizards does their spoilers in an order for a reason, seeing contextual stuff in the right order tends to make the set easier to digest.

I gotta admit I didn't really like any of the mechanics at all on paper, but that might just be that lack of context. Definitely curious to see how everything comes together with images and stuff.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

New mechanics are SUPER intriguing. Looking forward to this. Will it get me to play standard? Probably not. But still.

[Third Eye Lem]

I dunno if anyone here follows Vanguard, but after seven years, the series is getting a rebooted anime and new cards. Oh, and a mobile game that's coming out in English, that's the most important part!

[PX]

Vanguard is super gg now

Why did I just buy Nightrose

[Third Eye Lem]

Why did I just buy Nightrose

Because Granblue and the other water clans are awesome?

Spoiler:

Also, one of the antagonists in G uses a Granblue deck so that might also be a factor

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I am about to start a draft of Masters 25 and the more I think about it the more aggravated I get about the fact there were so many other green mythics they could have put in instead of the tree

Hell, just reprint Tarmogoyf again

[commandercool]

In a recent FAQ it was apparently revealed that Tree Of Redemption was a last-minute replacement for something that they decided they couldn't print at the last second. They picked a bad mythic that they knew couldn't possibly break sealed. This is kind of discredited by the fact that Triskaidekaphobia is also in the set, but I guuuuess it's possible it was already there for some reason.

So anyway, there are a few conspiracy theories about what's going on if that's true. Some people figure it was Tarmogoyf and Wizards decided late in production that having a box value that was too high would be a net negative for some reason so they decided to remove it, and some people think they were going to reprint a reserve list card (which probably would have been either Fastbond, Survival Of The Fittest, or Earthcraft given that it occupied a green mythic slot) and got cold feet at the last second about the possible legal consequences. I guess it could always be something like new art that didn't come in on time or something too, I don't know, but at any rate the claim is that Tree was not intended to be in that slot.

Edit: Wait a minute, Triskaidekaphobia doesn't even do anything with Tree Of Redemption. That's the wrong tree! What a bizarre fakeout. Why put both of them in the same set?!

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

well, I had fun drafting the set, but it didn't feel like an experience worth $30

Horseshoe Crab is absurdly powerful if you're able to build your deck around it, it turns out

[commandercool]

One of my roommates has been trying to make Horsehoe Crab Pauper a thing for a while, but without Heavy Arbalest it doesn't seem like the payoff is quite there. We still test the deck occasionally though, maybe we'll figure it out eventually.

[commandercool]

Another local store is picking up Pauper. Only monthly events, but we had 11 people for the first one which is pretty great given that the only person there who plays anywhere else locally was me. I 4-0ed with Pestilence, although I did have a first-round bye and ran abnormally hot. We saw a pretty decent spread of decks, only one duplicate list that I saw (Izzet Blitz) and only one "I thought Pauper was basically limited so I just brought a pile of unplayable commons I had laying around" deck.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

so they just previewed the Signature Spellbook

it's going to contain special versions of the

Spoiler:

original Jace Beleren, Counterspell, Blue Elemental Blast, Negate, Threads of Disloyalty, Mystical Tutor, Brainstorm, and Gifts Ungiven, as well as a ninth card that will be a foil of one of the previous eight.

Looks pretty good, and actually a bit better than what I was actually expecting

[MatsuriSakuragi]

A little disappointed that this is supposedly what's replacing From the Vault though.

[commandercool]

As someone who likes crazy card frames and never bought a From The Vault because they were always prohibitively expensive, I'm into it. What I'm not into is more Jace oh my god. Please banish Jace from the storyline for at least five years, I am tired of looking at him.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

My problem with it is that there's no chase card. Almost all of those are cards that cost around a dollar or less, with Jace, Mystical Tutor, and Gifts Ungiven costing a couple dollars. That's... really lame to me. At least FtV had some occasional cards that needed a reprint due to rising prices and usually something super good to make the cost more than worth it.

(What I'm saying is that I'm salty I didn't jump on Lore when I had the chance and wasn't around for Relics/Realms/Twenty)

[commandercool]

Where are you seeing Mystic Tutor, Jace Beleren, and Gifts Ungiven at a couple dollars? I'm seeing $7-8 everywhere, which more than makes up the price tag with those alone. In this case I think the "chase card" will probably end up being foil Counterspells and Brainstorms either way. I'll be curious to see what those settle at.

Of course I'm assuming that Signature Spellbooks are going to be available at MSRP, and when I'm comparing them to From The Vault I'm assuming that FTV is not. Because I think the only FTV I ever saw on a shelf for less than double recommended retail was Annihilation because it was worth well under $40 in singles.

That's obviously not really a fair comparison, and if every store slaps a $40-50 pricetag on this product immediately then it will be a pretty weak replacement. If I can buy it at Target for $20 then it's doing much better work as far as I'm concerned.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

So we have lists for the Elves vs. Inventors duel decks. No new cards, but the decks themselves look pretty decent and have some cool stuff and I like the reprint selection.

Also we're getting official some official reveals for Dominaria now and I like what I'm seeing so far, even with the commons (although I may just be super excited about commons because I intend to mostly play this set in draft)

[commandercool]

I was really hoping for a Quirion Ranger reprint in the elves deck. No dice. Is that a new Elvish Archdruid art though? It's pretty rad.

[commandercool]

Main set Zhalfirin Void has spectacular art. I'd love to have a poster of that. I'd say a playmat but it's unlikely anything will ever top my Danmaku! playmats. 

So what do you think of the Firesong And Sunsinger controversy? They're a card that's part of Dominaria but isn't in the set. It's only available as a Buy A Box promo. This seems like a dangerous precedent to set to me, and to a lot of people. This particular card doesn't seem especially good, but I'm not sure I trust Wizards not to get greedy and eventually make the next Scarab God an exclusive promo eventually, given their rough track record lately. And this card does some unique and powerful stuff, so there's always an outside chance it's going to end up being good despite being expensive and slow, and that could do some weird things to the secondary market.

I'd much rather see a flashy promo of a staple card with a very unique frame or art or foil process or something over this, although I appreciate that they're trying to make box promos exciting. How about an Opt with a masterpiece-level foil treatment or Comic Con exclusive-level experimental art style or something next time?

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

So what do you think of the Firesong And Sunsinger controversy? They're a card that's part of Dominaria but isn't in the set. It's only available as a Buy A Box promo. This seems like a dangerous precedent to set to me, and to a lot of people. This particular card doesn't seem especially good, but I'm not sure I trust Wizards not to get greedy and eventually make the next Scarab God an exclusive promo eventually, given their rough track record lately. And this card does some unique and powerful stuff, so there's always an outside chance it's going to end up being good despite being expensive and slow, and that could do some weird things to the secondary market.

That seems to be the general consensus among people I'm following. I've heard people calling it "preorder DLC for cardboard" and I can't say I disagree. They must really want to make their sales look good after the last two Masters sets, huh.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

That seems to be the general consensus among people I'm following. I've heard people calling it "preorder DLC for cardboard" and I can't say I disagree. They must really want to make their sales look good after the last two Masters sets, huh.

Someone on Tumblr is doing an offer where they are buying up unwanted copies of Firesong and Sunspeaker and then giving them away to people who do want them, so that's good, at least.

[commandercool]

That seems to be the general consensus among people I'm following. I've heard people calling it "preorder DLC for cardboard" and I can't say I disagree. They must really want to make their sales look good after the last two Masters sets, huh.

Did Masters 25 flop? Nobody around here has any product. Maybe they just drastically under-ordered.

Edit: Oh wow, new logo. I don't love it in a vacuum, but it looks nice on packaging.

Maybe even more interesting is the new card backs. It's no secret that Wizards has wanted to replace the Magic backs since forever, but if I read the announcement article correctly these aren't actually being implemented in paper. At least not yet.

I do like the design quite a bit, I think they look slick as hell, and other games have successfully introduced new card backs before. I'm guessing these will be implemented in paper Magic in the near future, probably in the next core set.

And if that's the case I hope they finally pull the trigger on the Instant/Sorcery split and get rid of Instants as a card type (while adding an Instant supertype to spells so Giant Growth becomes an Instant Sorcery and Snapcaster Mage becomes an Instant Creature). Seems like it would make sense to finally make both of the two big changes they've always been too conservative to make at the same time, and this year seems like a good time to do it.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Masters 25 was a massive flop and the card backs won't be changing afaik, but they're making card sleeves to spoof such a thing.

[commandercool]

I called around at card stores and checked in at four different grocery stores over the last three days, and as far as I can tell you can't buy a Master's 25 pack locally. Nobody has any product left. Although I'm pretty sure that's because everyone just ordered very little.