-
Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4614.0.html)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5049.0.html)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.0.html)
Thread 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6744.0.html)
Thread 6 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.0.html)
Thread 7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.0.html)
Thread 8 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11564.0.html)
Thread 9 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13990.0.html)
Thread 10 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15170.0.html)
Thread 11 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.0.html)
Thread 12 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16042.0.html)
Thread 13 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16978.0.html)
Thread 14 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17586.0.html)
Thread 15 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.0.html)
Thread 16 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20421.0.html)
Translation Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html)
English Wiki
LoT 1 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
LoT 2 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2)
MoonJapanese Wiki
LoT 1 (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
LoT 2 (http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2)
LoT 1 Patches and other downloads
Ver 2.04 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/mzdgl54mxmi/thLabyrinth_ver2.04.zip)
Ver 2.06B patch (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC) Dead link. HALP.
Ver 3.01 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahccqhixp7d1n9p/thLabyrinth_ver3.01.zip)
English Patch for Ver 3.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/?t1v567p5sced1zl)
Cheat Engine chart (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg356800.html#msg356800)
Cheat table for Special Disc on Win XP (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg377088.html#msg377088)
Suggested builds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521)
Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/download/w5jig4q58hlmy3z/Labyrinth+DataBase.rar)
New Game+ file for version 3.01 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7188.0;attach=15055)
LoT 2, its Patches, and other downloads
The place to go to buy a legitimate copy of the game. (http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852) The instructions for how to navigate the site in order to buy it is here. (http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc)
Start game with all characters (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.msg1017162.html#msg1017162)
Ver 1.202 (http://firestorage.jp/download/0584ab67e6fae363810686ef8648a4c7e09e4c0a)
Ver 1.203 (http://firestorage.jp/download/7814f97d45779c2c977b514c0db479fae8e926d8)
Image packs
Squidtentacle's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chripy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download/pc8dovp81cj8u8z/CharaGraph.rar)
Pandaology's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z)
Enemy Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnlnx9stxxybinb/enemy_info%20v2.zip?dl=0)
Contains their Stats, Affinities, Ailment Resistances, EXP, Money, Drops, and Types
Spellcard Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujydvnmgj466eaq/spellcard_info.zip?dl=0)
4 text files for Characters, Commands, Enemies, and Subclass data in a zip file
Individual files for those who only don't want to download a zip file
Character (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lg29mv3r2b9ahrj/Spellcards_Character.txt?dl=0)
Commands (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5abxf9st849cnw8/Spellcards_Commands.txt?dl=0)
Enemies (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv8pi1hepbkh3v9/Spellcards_Enemy.txt?dl=0)
Subclasses (https://www.dropbox.com/s/z5g5llnwa34jb53/Spellcards_Subclasses.txt?dl=0)
Passive Skill Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jovqyauwx24odf/Labyrinth%20of%20Touhou%202%20Passive%20Skills.txt?dl=0)
Data on all the character's passive skills that affect damage formulas, stats, etc
Enemy AI Dump (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfpfenffpit76yr/lot2_enemy_ai_dump.txt?dl=0)
Developer's site: http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/ (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)
Main page : http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm)
And thus the saga continues...
-
And thus the saga continues...
Indeed it does...
-
Sweet, new thread^^
I will take the opportunity to ask: where is Koishi
? According to the wiki it should be on the 24F but I can't find it anywhere, and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss any events.
-
Hi. I imagine this has been asked a hundred times before, but my google/forumfu is bloody terrible.
On the LOT2 wiki I have here, it mentions skill.
It says when an ally is defending (does that mean when they -any- damage?) with the lesser of her mnd and def stat, that she transfers her defending stats to them. In the same section it says it allows her to pour her stats only into her mind.
How does that work exactly? The wording is confusing me, mostly, I think.
Edit: Uh, how do I spoiler tag? (sorry)
-
Hi. I imagine this has been asked a hundred times before, but my google/forumfu is bloody terrible.
On the LOT2 wiki I have here, it mentions Yukari's Border of Power and Magic skill.
It says when an ally is defending (does that mean when they -any- damage?) with the lesser of her mnd and def stat, that she transfers her defending stats to them. In the same section it says it allows her to pour her stats only into her mind.
How does that work exactly? The wording is confusing me, mostly, I think.
Most attacks will do something like "Damage = Attacker's ATK stat - Defender's DEF stat" or "Damage = Attacker's MAG stat - Defender's MND stat", with various modifiers to the values based on the skill used. What Yukari's skill does is make it so that if you take damage on the weaker of your two defensive stats, it is changed to the average of your defensive stats (the character's defensive stats, not Yukari's)
So if Patchouli has 100,000 MND and 10 defense, and someone uses a physical attack on her, she'll have 50,005 defense if Yukari is in the front row. Again, it's entirely Patchouli's stats, not Yukari's. But the skill also works on Yukari herself.
The comment on only raising Yukari's MND is that her MND stat is better than her DEF stat. So every 2 points to MND will boost DEF by 1 point as well.
-
Cheers, thank you!
Also could you tell me how to black out my text so I don't accidentally drop a spoiler next time? lol. I can't find it and I've checked in the help section. Unless I should put on my glasses.
-
Also could you tell me how to black out my text so I don't accidentally drop a spoiler next time? lol. I can't find it and I've checked in the help section. Unless I should put on my glasses.
[ spoiler ] text text etc blah blah [ /spoiler ] But without the spaces inbetween the [ ]s. The only thing that really needs to be covered at this point I think though, is late Plus Disk bosses and such.
I will take the opportunity to ask: where is Koishi
? According to the wiki it should be on the 24F but I can't find it anywhere, and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss any events.
I haven't played Plus, but it's possible the previous Koishi events are slightly out of order? Are you sure you encountered her three times previously as the wiki says? E.g. maybe an event wasn't originally there when you did X floor but it appeared later after you did Y. I'd check all three other floors she appears on for her events just in case.
-
I will take the opportunity to ask: where is Koishi
? According to the wiki it should be on the 24F but I can't find it anywhere, and I'm pretty sure I didn't miss any events.
If you haven't missed any events, she should definitely be on 24f. Have you explored everywhere? Here's the completed map (spoilers): https://imgur.com/NWPFdVS
-
Ah I missed the north-east part, I'll check it, thanks^^ (BTW I also missed the B1F event apparently, got all three now, time to see if I can find her on 24F^^)
-
I did find Koishi at last, thank you^^ Another question: is
Murakumo's Blessing
the only single-char subclass available in the game? What about Dragon God and WINNER
?
Also, I dunno if others also noticed, but the English patch crashes when interacting with Purple Key icons in the Endless Corridor. Bummer.
-
Murakumo's Blessing
is currently the only single character subclass in the game, yeah. The others haven't been implemented yet, along with several items and a few floors still.
-
Did plus disk add new achievements? i assume so but the wiki page has no info
Also can't we update the Wiki to include more detailed information like the yukari skill?
id do it right now but not sure who is policeing the wiki ???
-
Yes the plus disk added more achievements. Its about half the size of the main game and on its own page. I dont remember how to access it though.
Thats unfortunate to hear about the patch though. hopefully its something minor / something you can just revert to fix
-
Does every shadow encounter have self buffing? i have started to use tenshi just to mitigate it :V
I am going crazy with these slippery and jumpy floors,currently at 22F
-
Most of the Shadow bosses do, and some that didn't will buff themselves for their Abyss versions in the Infinite Corridor (for Abyss bosses, only Youmu doesn't have a self-buff of some kind). About half of the non-Touhou bosses buff themselves as well.
Several of these buffs aren't ones that Tenshi can remove though, no choice but to deal with them.
-
Also,anybody else feels like mages are underwhelming in Lot2 compared to Lot1? patchy and kaguya used to melt everything like butter,here they barely deal respectable damage
-
can someone link LoT2 achivements page? no idea where exactly it is ???
should prolly have a link from the main achievement page
-
can someone link LoT2 achivements page? no idea where exactly it is ???
should prolly have a link from the main achievement page
JP wiki's page: https://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/170.html
Translated list of the datamined achievements
Achievement requirements.
128 hours played
256 hours played
10k battles won
54 Main Equipment collected
60 Main Equipment collected
200 Sub Equipment collected
220 Sub Equipment collected
230 Sub Equipment collected
240 Sub Equipment collected
10m money obtained
100m money obtained
20k parameter strengthened
100k parameter strengthened
90% bestiary filled
96% bestiary filled
100% bestiary filled
All party members collected
Jet Black Fragment obtained
20 Jet Black Fragment obtained
All Jet Black Fragment obtained
Extra Skill unlocking item obtained
20 kinds of Extra Skill unlocking items obtained
All kinds of Extra Skill unlocking itmes obtained
Lv500 reached
Lv1000 reached
96 Materials collected
100 Materials collected
Someone having maxed all the tier 1 boost skill
Someone having maxed all the tier 2 boost skill
Someone having maxed all the tier 3 boost skill
Someone having 80 stat boosting items used
Someone having 160 stat boosting items used
20 Infinity Gems traded
100 Infinity Gems traded
Endless Corridor 100F completed
Endless Corridor 256F completed
Endless Corridor 512F completed
Highest above-ground floor reached
Lowest below-ground floor reached
Someone having status level total of 3000
Obtained 3000 drops from enemies
500 chests opened
255 equipments forged
Someone's BP having reached 20k
Defeated Yamata no Orochi
Defeated Manifestation: Yamata no Orochi
Defeated Dragon God
Defeated ***WINNER***
Defeated at least 1 boss on 29F
Defeated all bosses on 29F
Defeated lingering boss on 30F
Defeated True Dragon God
Presently, achievements 5, 8, 9, 14 (I think), 15, 16, 22, 23, 36, 37, 38, 39, and 47-52 are not possible to accomplish in the current update. Achievements 49-52 are not possible to view in-game.
-
can someone link LoT2 achivements page? no idea where exactly it is ???
should prolly have a link from the main achievement page
After I got home and looked, its just the third option... I'm surprised you didn't just poke around in Keine's section of the menu.
-
Also,anybody else feels like mages are underwhelming in Lot2 compared to Lot1? patchy and kaguya used to melt everything like butter,here they barely deal respectable damage
Depends which ones you use, I guess (and with which setup). Most of my team's nukes are mages, and they deal good damage: Miko, Maribel, Kanako, Suwako, Yukari etc.
As for stat ups on bosses, Tenshi is an option, of course, but another one is using Renko/Maribel. Thanks to her Ability to See Boundaries, Maribel takes a pittance from buffed bosses, while causing massive dmg even with resisted blows. I had several fights against such bosses where Maribel and Renko were the last team members left and they still pulled it off. Most importantly, they require literally no support from the rest of the team (Maribel heals and damages, while Renko tanks and buffs), so they can slot easily into any team.
EDIT: On another note, has anyone tried to make Tokiko work? Her stats are absolutely incredible - especially if you use Reimu alongside her - but her personal skills kinda suck. A possibility I contemplated is giving her Murakumo's Blessing
, with Reimu and Sanae on the front to maximize her damage output. But even then, she'd be mostly a single target attacker, which is not exactly awesome for clearing randoms. What Tokiko would really need is WINNER
I think, but that class is still not implemented. Even Dragon God
, with its composite AoE, would do marvels.
EDIT2: I'm stuck on 25F now fsr. I already defeated 3 of the bosses on the floor, but I can't find where to go next. Neither the rock on 25F (directly south of the warp point) nor the two rocks on 26F (the ones accessed from the stairs on the south-west of 25F) open up now. Meanwhile I'll try to progress down (I'm at B7F now).
EDIT3: Actually, even on B7F there is a rock at the center which I can't seem to be able to get past. Help?
EDIT4: Nevermind, I found the way to progress on 25F :-)
-
Taking all passives,equips,subclasses (even unreleased) into account,who would be the most self sufficient character?
Remilia with last fortress? byakuren with mantras?
EDIT:just picked a purple key on the infinite underground mode and my game crashed,should i click ignore next time
-
Byakuren's mantras are pretty crazy and she's got the balanced stats to do solo work. In general, people who can handle buffing themselves are "self-sufficient", e.g. Yuuka- she can easily slot into any party because she'll keep herself at more or less max buffs just by attacking. Although if you mean like to literally solo the game, kinda hard to handle all that in one package, but with huge overleveling in mind- yeah it'd be Byakuren due to stats and mantras.
The game crashing on the infinite corridor is something that needs to get reported- if it's confirmed it's only with the english patch, at least.
-
Quick question for you guys: taking Awakening skills into account, who would be considered the worst character in LoT2? I'm aware that before awakening skills, the worst character was Youmu, so I was wondering if that has changed due to said skills.
-
@Serela: I can confirm it's the English patch which causes the crashes with Purple Chests. Also, some of the snake-like bosses you fight on 26F cause the game to crash upon they act (I don't remember which ones - two for sure, two don't, and one I don't know because it never got to act :-P ).
@Kirin no Sora: With 56 chars and multiple combinations it'll take a long time to make a reasonable character tier list, I doubt there's an easy "worst" to single out. At most, I have a feeling that some chars just are "not needed" - they're not necessarily bad, but what they do is not exactly something you need to make a room for on your team. An example, IMO, is Minoriko - sure, her regen and heals are good, but there are many more choices for healing in LoT2, and she doesn't even get any kinship boosts whatsoever. Though, it should be noted that Minoriko is by no means "bad" - not in the same sense in which some LoT1 chars were bad in the postgame, at least (looking at you, Remilia/Patchouli).
EDIT: Also, a question of "strategy" about the Endless Corridor. As far as I understood, the corridor in its current state ends at 100F. What happens once you complete 100F? Does it "loop" back to 100F or are you sent out forcibly? I'm asking because I want several of the items I would need dust to buy. Also, are the items you obtain from chests and enemies better as the floor counter increases, or can I just farm 1F to obtain the stuff I need (such as Infinity Gems)?
-
Youmu's awakening is actually pretty dang solid (and her skills max at 10 in Plus), and other bad characters like Utsuho got buffed up quite a bit in Plus and have good awakenings too. Youmu still sucks eggs during the maingame, but she's good in plus.
A lot of attackers went stale due to massive defenses in a -huge- amount of the later bosses, but that's supposed to not be a huge problem in plus either. All the characters I found underwhelming either got overall buffs in Plus (Sakuya, Keine imo) and/or awakenings that made them worth using (Remilia, Youmu). I'd put Kokoro around the bottom of a tier list, but she's not AWFUL, and there's a few characters that don't seem worth using unless you use a bunch of their synergy teammates (Patchouli). Not really sure how Tokiko or Koishi pan out, but they've at least got potential.
I just don't really see what you're supposed to do with Kokoro- her mask effects are only a minor 10% up/down effect and that Fighting Spirit power she really needs is limited to a single attack she has to use repeatedly. Her offensive presence is fine but nothing special and she has nothing beneficial to do as a tank. If you REALLY want that 10% stat change effect she's certainly there, and she'll do OK enough damage, but I can't see her actually being worth a party slot unless you're really trying to min/max something. Her awakening opens up Regen-tanking as a Healer with concentrate spam and Mask of Hope but that neuters her mask ability and takes up her turns, while Kogasa does the same thing a billion times better because she heals way more, and gets to swap your party everywhere instead of just sitting there giving herself a headache by thinking too hard.
Cut by Elminster- thanks, I'll just go report it in the translation thread.
Also, Awakened Minoriko actually isn't bad- it takes some base HP tweaking but she gets some -serious- regen power going (18% with fast turns- and overhealing by 8% up to 150% max hp), and pairing that with her stellar MND (even when it's not focused on) seems like she's got real HP tank potential. By combining her heal and buff into one really fast skill she can take many turns to proc her regen and now-massive party MAG boost, plus it seems like usable support, and she's got basically infinite MP to sub Herbalist or whatever else for buff support... Placebo Effect is wonderfully fast as well and Herb of Awakening's not too slow and is always nice to be regularly casting on attackers.
-
@Serela: Tbh I kinda disagree, both about Minoriko and about Kokoro^^
As far as Minoriko goes, you're really overrating her tanking ability. Sure, 18% HP regen per turn is nice, but Minoriko's bulk is awful compared to other tanks such as Renko or Ran. Moreover, as a tank, you need to do some serious support in order not to be dead weight - "not dying" is something any tank can do, so that alone can't win her a slot. As far as I can see, Minoriko does the following things, not counting subclasses (which any other tank could get):
- Symbol of Harvest (bonus dmg vs Plant enemies): cute I guess, but not something I'd consider slotting her for.
- Ability to Control Harvest (+8% Magic to all party members every time Minoriko takes a turn): now this is something I'd consider Minoriko for, but the fact is, there are a lot other good buffing tanks which can do much more (Renko, Ran, Keine, etc.) or that are just plain bulkier (Renko again, Rinnosuke, etc.)
- Healing + defensive buffing: this is probably the first thing you can think of when considering Minoriko. Unlike LoT1, however (where Reimu was the only viable AoE healer), LoT2 has several other options, such as Rumia (which, if awakened, can be slotted anywhere even w/o T9 members) and Maribel (who is just a little bit OP as you know too^^)
Now, this may appear like a good package, but the fact is that (1) it's tied to Minoriko's meh bulk (even from the magical side, her low HP count hurts), (2) there are other tanks which can regenerate while supporting the team (such as Renko or Byakuren), and most importantly (3) you don't even need more than 1 or 2 tanks in your team of 12. TBH, the only team I'd consider slotting Minoriko in would be the Yakumo family, since it has two powerful magical users and Yukari's skill can help increasing Minoriko's pathetic physical bulk. But even then, there are other options which are equally valid and not as dependent on somebody else's ability to work... and as mentioned before, Ran can also function pretty well as a tank by herself, freeing a slot for another nuke such as Nitori, Miko etc. In short, Minoriko is not bad, but can't do the various broken things the really good tanks can do (such as mass buffing to all stats, quick switches, no-selling just about any attack with high defenses and/or evasion, etc.)
As for Kokoro... I was sceptical too, at first - heck, when I reached 24F I was looking for Koishi, I recruited Kokoro just along the way^^ But after I noticed her synergy with Miko, I decided to give her a try and, well... she's much better than she looks:
1) Her offensive stats are not as bad as you make them to be - they're around Suwako's level of power when you factor the faster level growth. Sure, Suwako gets a +32% to all stats from kinship, but Kokoro still gets a static +25% to ATK/MAG after just two Concentrations, and gives a further +10% to her allies while also lowering the opponents' own defenses (which may be lower than in the main game but are still considerable).
2) Her attacks are actually quite good, and can work both for clearing trash and for bosses. Against trash, you can spam The Man of Qi Worries
About the Earth, which has actually a good multiplier (assuming Kokoro's MAG ends roughly as half her ATK, that's the equivalent of a 195% ATK - 70% MND attack, which is good enough for random encounters). This is especially true when you can start using equipments which boost all stats, such as Machine God Lucifer, as well as gems and tomes to increase both stats.
3) Invigorated Kagura Lion may be her only way of increasing her Fighting Spirit counter, but it's still a pretty damn good way to do so. 255% ATK - 72% DEF is a good multiplier for an attacking move, especially when you consider how accurate it is (ACC +48) and the fact it debuffs DEF/MND too once you enable her Mask (Anger). Once her Fighting Spirit is maxxed out, she deals +25% damage on top of the previous buffs, making her actually even more powerful than several kinship boosted attackers like Suwako. Also, unlike Suwako or Chen, Kokoro has the bulk to stay out (and can actually heal herself by spamming fast Concentrations).
I still am not too sure about which subclass suits her best, besides the single-char ones (I'd go either with Warrior/Sorcerer, or with Transcendent if you got buff support), but the point is - as an attacker, she got enough variety and durability to serve well both vs bosses and vs randoms.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now... could somebody answer my query about the Endless Corridor too, please? :-)
Also, a question of "strategy" about the Endless Corridor. As far as I understood, the corridor in its current state ends at 100F. What happens once you complete 100F? Does it "loop" back to 100F or are you sent out forcibly? I'm asking because I want several of the items I would need dust to buy. Also, are the items you obtain from chests and enemies better as the floor counter increases, or can I just farm 1F to obtain the stuff I need (such as Infinity Gems)?
-
This is what i get from darkness corridor so far:
-Start with a limited number of steps,these turn into special currency upon reaching the next floor resting area
-You can find 'steps',special currency and free items on each floor
-If you run out of steps you must start all over again from 1F (?)
-There is a ??? level boss every ten floors (Got shadow reimu)
anything else i am missing? i cant keep the star renmants if i get knocked back to 1F or wiped out? i use diva chen and aya to blitz trough floors
still havent found a use for infinity materials
-
This is what i get from darkness corridor so far:
-Start with a limited number of steps,these turn into special currency upon reaching the next floor resting area
-You can find 'steps',special currency and free items on each floor
-If you run out of steps you must start all over again from 1F (?)
-There is a ??? level boss every ten floors (Got shadow reimu)
anything else i am missing? i cant keep the star renmants if i get knocked back to 1F or wiped out? i use diva chen and aya to blitz trough floors
still havent found a use for infinity materials
This is mostly correct, except that you restart at the floor you last left at, not at 1F - which is why I wanted to know what happens once you reach 100F.
-
This is mostly correct, except that you restart at the floor you last left at, not at 1F - which is why I wanted to know what happens once you reach 100F.
So i dont restart at 1 if i get wiped or run out of steps? getting those absurd items doesnt seem so hard now
i should start grinding instead of skipping encounters
-
Pretty sure I read in the past that at 100F, it "keeps going", but the floor number doesn't rise and you don't encounter more bosses. It's random gen floors so you'll just get a new "100f" to clear and loot out. I could be wrong tho?
re:Minoriko, if you give her a first aid kit and hp boost/gems/orbs/equips and dump all her levels in HP, she should have -plenty- enough HP for the sick regen to do it's job, shouldn't she? (And that's what you'd do with any hp tank, so) She also buffs the front line by 16% mag per turn instead of 8. And the thing is; most people you want acting as stay-out tanks can't exactly heal. Unless you sub healer, in which case they generally can't heal -well-. The infinite MP is also fairly relevant if you aren't running a "kills the boss in 10 moves" min-max setup; it's so painful when your tanks have to start concentrating D: That leaves ATK and SPD, but Herbalist does a pretty good job covering these holes, she just can't apply the initial buff. She's pretty sweet on magic-focused teams overall.
Although, awakened Reimu does have pretty sweet tanking stats after a few turns. >_>
I suppose Kokoro is better than I was giving her credit for, it's true. The downside of Kagura Lion is you can't use an attack to hit weakness (subclass or not) instead, but it IS a pretty solid move. I also didn't remember it applies debuffs with emotion. Thankfully at the very least she gets sustained fighting spirit when awakened, but it's an unfortunate day when the boss resists Fire. XD
-
So, i want some opinions. in my Labyrinth 1 mod, should i tell players the games status effect number, or the actual chance that correlates into.
for example, Reimu's Evil Sealing Circle PAR(45) or PAR(135%) or should i do something different? Like maybe (135/100)*100= 74 so should i say Evil Sealing Circle PAR(74%)
Again this is Laby1, not 2 where she starts with PAR(60)
-
EDIT: On another note, has anyone tried to make Tokiko work? Her stats are absolutely incredible - especially if you use Reimu alongside her - but her personal skills kinda suck.
I haven't personally tried her, but looking at her, I do agree that most of Tokiko's personal skills are pretty bad since Reading is RNG, but she's got the 3rd highest base ATK in the game (under Flandre and Yuugi, Nitori is also higher with Maintenance) accounting for leveling rates and she gets 50% more ATK/MAG with her synergy skill and her Thick Book of Martial Arts Awakening skill (which encourages not using Reading). She hits about 4-9% harder (depending on the attack) than Tenshi backed by max Courageous Sword and Keystones of Spirit, and it's not like Tenshi excels at anything besides hitting hard. Most of her personal skills are pretty bad too, and Tokiko is only a little bit less durable than Tenshi is (she even has more PHY affinity than Tenshi). Youkai Yakuza Kick isn't as strong as World Creation Press, nor is it as MP efficient, but it's still a solid personal spell card. Tokiko looks like she would be best used as a straightforward attacker without touching Reading imo.
Quick question for you guys: taking Awakening skills into account, who would be considered the worst character in LoT2? I'm aware that before awakening skills, the worst character was Youmu, so I was wondering if that has changed due to said skills.
Man, looking at every character repeatedly, I just can't single one out. Everyone has something good or at least very usable about them. I'd just generalize and say "super frail characters" that can't withstand a VOI attack, since Time-Space Warp tends to be employed by bosses before using their VOI attack, and if the character can't survive the attack, they can't really be used against said boss without risking them being eliminated purely by random chance. In particular, Kaguya and Patchouli are actually weak to VOI (testing indicates +20% more damage), so no way they're taking any hits from this. You'd think that, since VOI attacks can't be resisted with affinity, they'd be weaker than other attacks, but the only damaging VOI attack with a confirmed formula, Space Compression, is 66% ATK - 25% DEF, which is actually one of the stronger attacks in the game. I personally would prefer to avoid using a character that can't be equipped to survive a random VOI attack.
An example, IMO, is Minoriko - sure, her regen and heals are good, but there are many more choices for healing in LoT2, and she doesn't even get any kinship boosts whatsoever. Though, it should be noted that Minoriko is by no means "bad" - not in the same sense in which some LoT1 chars were bad in the postgame, at least (looking at you, Remilia/Patchouli).
EDIT: Also, a question of "strategy" about the Endless Corridor. As far as I understood, the corridor in its current state ends at 100F. What happens once you complete 100F? Does it "loop" back to 100F or are you sent out forcibly? I'm asking because I want several of the items I would need dust to buy. Also, are the items you obtain from chests and enemies better as the floor counter increases, or can I just farm 1F to obtain the stuff I need (such as Infinity Gems)?
tbh Minoriko's one of the stronger NTR attackers in the game with Warm Color Harvest, though compared with Tenshi, Yuuka, and Suwako (and to a lesser extent Nitori), she's not that strong. It's certainly an interesting way to use her though, as she self-sustains a 100% MAG buff, has the highest SPD of the aforementioned characters, and can go a pure MND build for magic bosses. From my damage tests, she's losing out on about 10% damage with 3x Machine God Lucifer if she goes pure MND on level up bonuses instead of MAG. Might be worth looking at if someone wanted to go attacker Minoriko.
Presently, the Infinite Corridor caps at 101f and loops infinitely, so you can farm an indefinite amount of Seven Star Dust to purchase items. However, you can get everything in the shop from item chests except for the Shuttle Body and Large Macaroon Collider anyway. Item chests do get better further into the Infinite Corridor (at least, Infinite Gems drop in higher quantities, maxing at 10 from one treasure on 1f but going as high as 20 on later floors), but as far as I can tell, you can acquire everything that drops from treasure on the 1f except Machine God Lucifer. You can also see every random enemy as early as 1f as well.
Besides a bunch of Plus Disk equipment, there's some potent main game equipment like the Ribbon and the Quartz Charm in the Infinite Corridor. No First-Aid Kit though, regrettably. The Life Aura is a strong defensive main equip, but not as strong as the First-Aid Kit.
Although, awakened Reimu does have pretty sweet tanking stats after a few turns. >_>
Her HP is untouched, so it's not as great as it looks. I'd rather look at using Reimu as an attacker imo. 5% more ATK/MAG every turn capping at 50% is pretty great, put Grand Incantation on top of that and Reimu should be able to deal good damage. Main thing that's problematic for her I would think is that she only has SPI for her personal spell cards, which is redundant coverage since Murakumo's Blessing
also has SPI spell cards available.
-
I haven't personally tried her, but looking at her, I do agree that most of Tokiko's personal skills are pretty bad since Reading is RNG, but she's got the 3rd highest base ATK in the game (under Flandre and Yuugi, Nitori is also higher with Maintenance) accounting for leveling rates and she gets 50% more ATK/MAG with her synergy skill and her Thick Book of Martial Arts Awakening skill (which encourages not using Reading). She hits about 4-9% harder (depending on the attack) than Tenshi backed by max Courageous Sword and Keystones of Spirit, and it's not like Tenshi excels at anything besides hitting hard. Most of her personal skills are pretty bad too, and Tokiko is only a little bit less durable than Tenshi is (she even has more PHY affinity than Tenshi). Youkai Yakuza Kick isn't as strong as World Creation Press, nor is it as MP efficient, but it's still a solid personal spell card. Tokiko looks like she would be best used as a straightforward attacker without touching Reading imo.
I agree, though from the looks of it the current endgame is more about cleaning random encounters than facing single-target bosses, which makes me a bit wary of pure single-target attackers like Tokiko (or Yuugi, for that matter), as opposed to AoE ones like Nitori or Flandre. Though, once Tokiko gets Drago God or WINNER subclasses
, it should manage to become a force to be reckoned with.
Man, looking at every character repeatedly, I just can't single one out. Everyone has something good or at least very usable about them. I'd just generalize and say "super frail characters" that can't withstand a VOI attack, since Time-Space Warp tends to be employed by bosses before using their VOI attack, and if the character can't survive the attack, they can't really be used against said boss without risking them being eliminated purely by random chance. In particular, Kaguya and Patchouli are actually weak to VOI (testing indicates +20% more damage), so no way they're taking any hits from this. You'd think that, since VOI attacks can't be resisted with affinity, they'd be weaker than other attacks, but the only damaging VOI attack with a confirmed formula, Space Compression, is 66% ATK - 25% DEF, which is actually one of the stronger attacks in the game. I personally would prefer to avoid using a character that can't be equipped to survive a random VOI attack.
I'd assume that you should still have enough time to switch out at least one or two chars, unless Time-Space Warp has 0% delay when used by corridor bosses (IIRC Second Sun incurred a delay after using it - I may be wrong though). Even so, though, frail chars should be avoided, I agree with the sentiment - though, maybe, kinship boosts can remedy it to an extent (I'm not too optimistic, seeing as Suwako still feels very frail, but it's also true that I'm not yet using all-stat boosts like Machine God Lucifer on her).
tbh Minoriko's one of the stronger NTR attackers in the game with Warm Color Harvest, though compared with Tenshi, Yuuka, and Suwako (and to a lesser extent Nitori), she's not that strong. It's certainly an interesting way to use her though, as she self-sustains a 100% MAG buff, has the highest SPD of the aforementioned characters, and can go a pure MND build for magic bosses. From my damage tests, she's losing out on about 10% damage with 3x Machine God Lucifer if she goes pure MND on level up bonuses instead of MAG. Might be worth looking at if someone wanted to go attacker Minoriko.
The problem is that Minoriko has only NTR attacks to speak for herself, whereas you could use something like Nitori which can at least hit 2 elements or more. Not to mention that Warm Color Harvest may have a good formula, but it's still worse than Mishaguji-sama or Violent Motherland (both of which also cause useful debuffs on top of damage).
Though you're right that Minoriko is still very usable, and that she's prolly a tad above Patchouli. However, given my recent experience with Kokoro, I really think that LoT2 chars need to be tested to be properly evaluated - you can no longer guesstimate them easily like in LoT1, where I could tell some chars like Mokou sucked even without trying them (though, even then, I still found many chars in LoT1 to be much better than I originally expected, such as Mystia, Yuuka, and Maribel - unfortunately, you can't test as easily as in LoT2 though).
Presently, the Infinite Corridor caps at 101f and loops infinitely, so you can farm an indefinite amount of Seven Star Dust to purchase items. However, you can get everything in the shop from item chests except for the Shuttle Body and Large Macaroon Collider anyway. Item chests do get better further into the Infinite Corridor (at least, Infinite Gems drop in higher quantities, maxing at 10 from one treasure on 1f but going as high as 20 on later floors), but as far as I can tell, you can acquire everything that drops from treasure on the 1f except Machine God Lucifer. You can also see every random enemy as early as 1f as well.
That's good to know, thank you - though, assuming the boss on 100F is the currently strongest foe, I guess there's no point in going further until 3peso actually produces an update (unlike in LoT1 where you could keep beating WINNER). Speaking of Machine God Lucifer, is the item to craft it currently impossible to get, or can it be dropped/obtained somewhere?
-
Is there any lilith equivalent enemy in Lot2? plenty of exp and gold rewards with trivial effort?
-
Just reporting that I did obtain 20X Infinity Gems on Endless Corridor 1F from a !!!! chest. Perhaps, the quality of drops is solely linked to chest quality rather than floor quality (and maybe, high-quality chests are more likely to spawn on higher floors?)
-
EDIT:just picked a purple key on the infinite underground mode and my game crashed,should i click ignore next time
Clicking ignore wouldn't fix anything.
Is it possible for you to get me the Japanese (or English, if any is displaying) text associated with this event? And is it possible to give me a save file near it? I'm honestly not playing at all, so I have no clue at all what this event is like.
-
I'm appalled at this slander against Minoriko!!
Honestly, my use of Minoriko in my lineup was initially due to "nostalgia" as she was used in my LoT1 line up before ultimately getting replaced at the final stages of the Plus Disk iirc. I'd check but I don't have my LoT1 stuff handy right now. That said, I love using Minoriko in LoT2. Desire to Rest is just stupid strong and Minoriko has MP for days even without that. She's not a main tank for sure but she's already amazing at what she does which is being able to quickly be swapped in and give a fat heal to someone in need (which will be improved further by her awakening) and at least in my experience, Minoriko can be bulky enough to take stray physical hits, even more so if you want to invest in her HP stat to make use of that regen.
To simplify, I think Minoriko's biggest selling point is her SPD and leveling rate combined with those heals. Sure, there are other options for healing but I would argue that none can match her SPD.
Without Plus Disk, it was easy to see Youmu as the weakest link because everything she did, someone else could do better and the stuff thats unique to her wasn't powerful enough to compensate. That said, I just really love the idea that in LoT2, if I wanted to use a character just because she was my favorite character, I wouldn't have a hard time getting through the game because of that decision.
-
Clicking ignore wouldn't fix anything.
Is it possible for you to get me the Japanese (or English, if any is displaying) text associated with this event? And is it possible to give me a save file near it? I'm honestly not playing at all, so I have no clue at all what this event is like.
Hold my sake
hope this helps, a key literally spawned beside me
-
...In particular, Kaguya and Patchouli are actually weak to VOI (testing indicates +20% more damage), so no way they're taking any hits from this...
Amusingly, Patchouli can achieve one of the highest levels of VOI damage reduction[I'd say THE highest, but Maribel's VOI affinity is just ridiculous]. Passive Philosopher's Stone gives a whopping 70% damage reduction from whichever element you used latest. All of Elementalist's spells are VOI elemental.
-
I agree, though from the looks of it the current endgame is more about cleaning random encounters than facing single-target bosses, which makes me a bit wary of pure single-target attackers like Tokiko (or Yuugi, for that matter), as opposed to AoE ones like Nitori or Flandre. Though, once Tokiko gets Drago God or WINNER subclasses
, it should manage to become a force to be reckoned with.
I guess you could say that about the current update, but the Infinite Corridor does appear to be set to spawn random bosses in the future, based on some things like Keine's library showing all of them at level 192 (why 192 is beyond me, the regular random enemies are level 1 instead). There's a strong possibility that a future update will max at a floor that spawns a random boss or something. Plus future potential bosses that may be possible to fight repeatedly. Presently, the only bosses that can be refought are Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi and its enhanced version, Plus Disk's final boss, and its enhanced version on B10f
, but the highest level of those is merely 499, and Infinite Corridor is where all the items are at anyway.
Tokiko would get 50% more MAG with her synergy skills, but idk if her book spell cards would be strong enough for random encounters even so. I'd actually assume that they would be pretty good though, especially her FIR one since a lot of Infinite Corridor enemies are weak to FIR. Still, it's undeniable that her multi-target ability is worse than her single-target ability.
I'd assume that you should still have enough time to switch out at least one or two chars, unless Time-Space Warp has 0% delay when used by corridor bosses (IIRC Second Sun incurred a delay after using it - I may be wrong though). Even so, though, frail chars should be avoided, I agree with the sentiment - though, maybe, kinship boosts can remedy it to an extent (I'm not too optimistic, seeing as Suwako still feels very frail, but it's also true that I'm not yet using all-stat boosts like Machine God Lucifer on her).
Second Sun set its delay to 20000 when it used Time-Space Warp (some other bosses did not though), and unfortunately, so do Serpent of Chaos
and Kedama Goddess
, who are set to always use a powerful VOI attack immediately after, and as the two strongest bosses in the game, they're kind of the most important (there is no productive reason to defeat the latter boss in the current update though). Though I think I'm being unfair to the frail characters since they're primarily offensive, and even bulky attackers will struggle to survive these VOI attacks. They're ridiculously strong.
I'm pretty sure Suwako can survive Serpent of Chaos' Disintegrating Breath
with a max HP setup, First-Aid Kit, 3x Machine God Lucifer, and Transcendent subclass (for stats and the 10% damage reduction), but tbh pretty much anyone can with that much defensive investment, and you're very unlikely to have 3x Machine God Lucifer unless you grind a ton. When I hit 100f, I was using 3x Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" instead, which is a 412% boost in HP and the best "non-broken" defensive piece of equipment. With that setup, a First-Aid Kit, HP Second Boost, and Transcendent subclass, Suwako still couldn't survive the attack reliably, taking 101% of her HP in damage. I'm not 100% on the damage formula for the attack though, but it seems to do roughly 50K on every character before damage reductions. It uses the same animation as Space Compression and has the same delay, so I'm assuming it's Space Compression by a different name. JP wiki says it's a MAG attack, but it didn't trigger Magic Counter for me, so idk about that.
Space Compression is 66% ATK - 25% DEF, so DEF is pretty meaningless in surviving it since it accounts for so little. Difference between no equipment boosting DEF/MND and having 3x Machine God Lucifer is about 2% less damage (+4K DEF/MND for Suwako, assuming Transcendent and regular DEF/MND Boost).
The problem is that Minoriko has only NTR attacks to speak for herself, whereas you could use something like Nitori which can at least hit 2 elements or more. Not to mention that Warm Color Harvest may have a good formula, but it's still worse than Mishaguji-sama or Violent Motherland (both of which also cause useful debuffs on top of damage).
I guess so, but tbh I wouldn't count the lack of debuffs against Minoriko, if you're clearing random encounters then the lack of any debuffs is hardly a problem. Pure damage is all you'd need for that. But then, buffing MAG and MND takes longer than just buffing ATK or MAG, so she'd have worse damage either way.
But yeah, my point was just that it's a potential use for her. I'd still rate Minoriko on the lower end of characters overall.
That's good to know, thank you - though, assuming the boss on 100F is the currently strongest foe, I guess there's no point in going further until 3peso actually produces an update (unlike in LoT1 where you could keep beating WINNER). Speaking of Machine God Lucifer, is the item to craft it currently impossible to get, or can it be dropped/obtained somewhere?
Presently, the 100f boss has the highest HP, but is not the highest leveled boss. The Kedama Goddess
is the highest leveled boss. But its AI script is very simple: all it does is use Spirit Decomposition on the leftmost slot on odd turns, then Time-Space Warp > Space Compression on even turns.
. There is also no point in fighting it in the current update, it drops nothing usable besides stat Gems. I forgot to mention, but enemy levels do continue to rise as you repeatedly loop Infinite Corridor's 101f, but they reset to their usual levels when you leave.
The Machine God Lucifer's craft material shows up as a treasure item in the Infinite Corridor, no other way to acquire it exists presently. In about 50+ hours I acquired 17 of them, but another user acquired 15 in 17 hours. Totally unfair luck in comparison to mine.
Just reporting that I did obtain 20X Infinity Gems on Endless Corridor 1F from a !!!! chest. Perhaps, the quality of drops is solely linked to chest quality rather than floor quality (and maybe, high-quality chests are more likely to spawn on higher floors?)
Huh, I'm pretty sure I never saw a 20 Infinity Gem treasure ever on 1f, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly...it was almost two months ago, but that seems like something I'd remember. Anyway,I wish quality of drops was linked to the chest, I've seen so many !!!!! chests that dropped things I could get from a !! chest that it felt like a ripoff. Especially when it was Fairy "Navi". !!-!!!! were the ones I most reliably found rare items from. I don't think a single one of the MGL craft material I acquired was from a !!!!! chest (but I did get some of the other items that can be crafted using that material from them, like the Power Dragon Scale Mail).
Actually, reading back on the thread, the only report of a 20 Infinity Gem chest was from a !!!!! chest as well, maybe that's the key to it. I do find that when it comes to quantity of Infinity Gems, chest quality does consistently reflect on how many are received from it. It also appears that I may have misinterpreted a post as saying MGL showed up in chests. Looking at it again, I think it actually does not drop from chests, so you'll have to farm up the materials and Seven Star Dust for that.
Amusingly, Patchouli can achieve one of the highest levels of VOI damage reduction[I'd say THE highest, but Maribel's VOI affinity is just ridiculous]. Passive Philosopher's Stone gives a whopping 70% damage reduction from whichever element you used latest. All of Elementalist's spells are VOI elemental.
Curiously, their description says they're VOI element, but when actually used, they're displayed as FIR/CLD/WND/NTR instead. Once *WINNER*
comes out Patchouli would have a legit VOI spell though.
That's a pretty good catch though, thanks. Don't think Patchouli has any business doing something like that, but if she did, she could withstand a VOI attack, contrary to what I said.
-
On the matter of Tokiko; while Youkai Yakuza Kick is a pretty solid skill considering it's delay in tandem with the power, she might be best off using subclass attacks if you wanted her running offensively. The reason being, she could activate Reading and have all her passives active, then use subclass attacks that won't cancel it like Youkai Yakuza Kick does. Really, there's not much reason to use her if you don't want her Reading passives anyway; unless you just -really- like Tokiko, you can get better attackers easily... although she'd be no slouch with the +25% atk/mag and her Reimu/Marisa synergy, +50% atk is no joke. Buuut, the downside is, after Awakening you're missing out on a hefty chunk of atk/mag using her that way. (But on the upside, it also means you'll have a super strong Youkai Yakuza kick in stock for whenever you'd like!)
Anyway, about her Reading passives- their effect on the straight buff/debuffs is 10%, rounded down, so enemies with 40% debuffs will go to 44%, or allies with 80% buffs will go up to 88%. It makes her pretty decent at maintaining these effects once they're on the field whilst she provides whatever damage or supportive efforts she can directly manage. The thing is, you can also just have people renewing these effects... but on the upside, she powers up all the buffs -and- debuffs AND still gets her turn to use skills at the same time, so it's not entirely underwhelimng. Hmmm.
-
If you wanted to attack with Tokiko, that 25% ATK buff from not having Reading is pretty invaluable. That's a good 20% or so damage (wow, uh...ATK multipliers really don't do as much when characters already have an enormous ATK stat). Kinda figure that most players might have some favorites that they particularly want to use, so having Tokiko as a dedicated attacker doesn't seem bad since she is at least a high tier character for that. I mean, with what I've done with Tenshi as an attacker, I think Tokiko's in the territory of "you could do a bit better, but would it even matter?". I'd rate Youkai Yakuza Kick as about comparable with World Creation Press overall, seems to do about 12% less damage but has 6600 delay compared to 6000, plus Tokiko has better SPD. If Tokiko can consistently get Reading every other turn, then Youkai Yakuza Kick would be better overall since Reading more than doubles its damage (I'm assuming that, since Reading is removed before Youkai Yakuza Kick does damage, Tokiko counts as not-Reading for the +25% ATK/MAG bonus when damage is calculated).
Actually...looking at Nitori, if you ignore Overheating, Tokiko's damage with subclass spells is comparable with Nitori's (besides for Samidare Slash). Super Scope 3D is pretty busted (more than 3x what Youkai Yakuza Kick normally does), but she can actually compete with Nitori. Just, Overheating makes it a no contest in Nitori's favor. Still, that's pretty exceptional.
-
Hold my sake
hope this helps, a key literally spawned beside me
So they spawn randomly? 3peso isn't making this easy on me.
There aren't any unicode characters on those lines that are immediately obvious. I'll see if I can find something.
-
If Tokiko can consistently get Reading every other turn, then Youkai Yakuza Kick would be better overall since Reading more than doubles its damage (I'm assuming that, since Reading is removed before Youkai Yakuza Kick does damage, Tokiko counts as not-Reading for the +25% ATK/MAG bonus when damage is calculated).
I doubt the reading proc is -that- reliable (you'd miss out on an awful lot of damage on failures if it didn't work 30% of the time), and I'm not sure the stat bonus would switch that quickly either. Although you're correct in that if Tokiko is just a favorite then she certainly does the job well enough. Although if you're comparing with Nitori, one of the big things that makes Nitori great isn't her attack stat, it's that maintennance easily gives her high values for -all- stats later in the game (resistances, affinities, speed, defensive stats, etc- I know that end of the normal game she was comparable to my MAIN TANKS, with all levelups in the attack stat!)
-
Just out of curiosity: what's the current level required for the endgame? I'm at around 490 now
-
I doubt the reading proc is -that- reliable (you'd miss out on an awful lot of damage on failures if it didn't work 30% of the time), and I'm not sure the stat bonus would switch that quickly either. Although you're correct in that if Tokiko is just a favorite then she certainly does the job well enough. Although if you're comparing with Nitori, one of the big things that makes Nitori great isn't her attack stat, it's that maintennance easily gives her high values for -all- stats later in the game (resistances, affinities, speed, defensive stats, etc- I know that end of the normal game she was comparable to my MAIN TANKS, with all levelups in the attack stat!)
I doubt Reading is that reliable either, but it's not like it's really been tested, so hard to say. I personally wouldn't ever use it, I detest RNG. As for Nitori, Maintenance does give her a wealth of advantages in a bunch of other areas, but her role in a party is still to primarily deal damage, so that's kind of what matters most with her when comparing with other characters. If the character can take a boss' hits then they don't really need to be more durable, right?
Just out of curiosity: what's the current level required for the endgame? I'm at around 490 now
About 540-560 should get you through 100f. The Kedama Goddess
is intended for level 760, but you can beat it in the mid-500s with some Medicine of Life (HP+1280% plus some status resistances). Just need to exceed 500K HP comfortably and heal that kind of damage off within a turn or two. Komachi can even solo it.
-
Medicine of Life makes tanks with notable hp regen sound crazy. :V
-
I am currently at 22F,how is miko supposed to be built as? tanky strategist mage? i am using tokiko as a pseudo remilia backup
still missing kokoro and koishi,hopefully i can clear the rocks on B7F now
-
About 540-560 should get you through 100f. The Kedama Goddess
is intended for level 760, but you can beat it in the mid-500s with some Medicine of Life (HP+1280% plus some status resistances). Just need to exceed 500K HP comfortably and heal that kind of damage off within a turn or two. Komachi can even solo it.
Does this mean that even my damage dealers should hit 500k? I am well far from that number, still (I would at the very least need to invest all the way through with jewels and veteran tomes, as well as library levels and Medicine of Life), I mean, even my bulkier members such as Ran barely break 200k HP at the moment with Flower Blade of Kikirousei or w/e it's called. I do guess I could hit such numbers in the lvl 700+ though.
I am currently at 22F,how is miko supposed to be built as? tanky strategist mage? i am using tokiko as a pseudo remilia backup
still missing kokoro and koishi,hopefully i can clear the rocks on B7F now
I think Miko
is better off as a straight-up magical nuke, it can reach some incredible numbers with proper gear and buffs. Personally, I have her using the Archmage subclass to add CLD and DRK coverage.
-
Medicine of Life makes tanks with notable hp regen sound crazy. :V
Yeah, Komachi can even top 1m HP with 3x Medicine of Life, a First-Aid Kit, and 600 library level while at around level 500. Medicine of Life is pretty much one of the best pieces of defensive equipment, Regalia (HP+600%, +172 to all affinities) is high up there too. But for VOI attacks and attacks that you already have high affinities for, Medicine of Life is best.
I am currently at 22F,how is miko supposed to be built as? tanky strategist mage? i am using tokiko as a pseudo remilia backup
still missing kokoro and koishi,hopefully i can clear the rocks on B7F now
Miko's a straight mage, basically the MAG equivalent of Nitori in a way. Raw damage output all the way with her.
B7f's rock blocking the path to B8f is gonna require you to beat the final boss, travel to 27f, and hit all the switches on it. In order to access 27f, you need to recruit everyone.
Does this mean that even my damage dealers should hit 500k? I am well far from that number, still (I would at the very least need to invest all the way through with jewels and veteran tomes, as well as library levels and Medicine of Life), I mean, even my bulkier members such as Ran barely break 200k HP at the moment with Flower Blade of Kikirousei or w/e it's called. I do guess I could hit such numbers in the lvl 700+ though.
That would be ideal, but it isn't like, necessary, as you can use ATK debuffs and damage reducing effects like Transcendent to reduce the damage you take too. Simply being a Transcendent would reduce it to 45K, and a Strategist would further reduce it to 40K (but Time-Space Warp might result in a frontline with no Strategist). You can also just accept that there's a random possibility that an attacker might be eliminated through random chance with Time-Space Warp > Space Compression and just aim for a quick win, but there's really no point in doing the boss in the mid 500s compared to the mid 700s or whatever level you feel comfortable doing it.
-
Do multiple appraisers effect stack?
-
Do multiple appraisers effect stack?
I believe it was said that they do.
-
I believe it was said that they do.
I am gonna try this as a farming method,hopefully its the most efficient
Appraiser rinnosuke,komachi and nazrin,all with MP items and Magician OR ame-no-murakumo flandre spaming leavetin on the forest floors 21-23F
-
@DarkAtma: Multiple Appraisers do stack indeed, but at your current level you'd likely get more mileage just trying to make your kills quicker and/or making longer streaks to score the highest xp/money bonus possible, so try to use your best team rather than appraisers. For long-term farming, wait at least until 27F where enemies start dropping stat gems.
EDIT: Incidentally, beware everyone that Infinity Gems cap at 200, I found it out the hard way
-
Defeated yamato no orochi i swear those battle buffs are broken
I am still missing a single kokoro mask and i am going crazy checking every post floor with no results
What monster drops the ironman material for most last page item crafting? i only have one
-
Honestly, Yamata No Orochi is mostly just a chance for your waifu Ame-No-Murakumo's Blessing person to show off. That said, the fight takes pretty long and some of their attacks can kill an unprepared attacker, so things can still get at least moderately tense if you get careless.
-
The first 2 Kokoro masks can be obtained before beating Futo (one on B1F and the second one in B4F I think), the other 2 masks are on 22F and 23F (according to the japanese wiki anyways).
-
What monster drops the ironman material for most last page item crafting? i only have one
That one's a random item from the Infinite Corridor's treasure chests.
-
Uh, anyone have tips for defeat boss in 12F?
-
Honestly, Yamata No Orochi is mostly just a chance for your waifu Ame-No-Murakumo's Blessing person to show off. That said, the fight takes pretty long and some of their attacks can kill an unprepared attacker, so things can still get at least moderately tense if you get careless.
was mostly talking about those random buffs you get on the battle,i find that highly unnecessary for a final boss
with that said,ame flandre did wrecked the final boss via starbow break and ame no murakumo SPI slash,gonna switch it on remilia after
-
Soo... I have 54 Dark Pieces, but I can't get past the rock on 27F (to the south) as it requires 56 pieces, and I can't get past the rock on B10F either, the one right next to the warp point (I don't know what this one requires). Is this the end of Plus Disk as it is, or am I forgetting something?
-
There's something you're missing...but I don't remember the floors well enough to be sure of what it is. Did you defeat
Shadow Reimu and Marisa
already? I remember that you can and have to defeat all of the Shadow bosses before you can clear that B10f rock, and the 27f switches are the key to unlocking that rock (I mistakenly said they were B7f earlier in the thread, I remembered this incorrectly, the B7f rock was defeating the final boss).
Definitely missing two Shadows, there's still more to do.
-
I defeated all shadows except
Rinnosuke and Tokiko
, which I dunno if I missed or whatever.
EDIT: Ok I found where they prolly are, on B9F, but I have no idea of how to reach that platform, I explored literally everything I could
EDIT2: Finally found it, it was behind a pair of rocks on B8F I kinda forgot about.
-
Was having trouble beating 12F Magatama so I dumped 2 whole long chains worth of money into Sakuya's ATK and when fully buffed and with a slight debuff on the enemy she was doing 30k a hit with Killing Doll haha. Factor in Extra Attack and you have an easy win.
I also did dump a long chain of money into Meiling's ATK as well previously and she's doing wonderfully against anything. Regularly hits for 15k+ on weaknesses with Mountain Breaker, very OP, very nice.
EDIT: and both of the above things let me slice through Tenshi like butter, wayyyy easier than the last fight against her.
-
Assuming you were to make a challenge run just using the front liners and never swapping them,which of these reserve passive characters would be the most useful? the ones with a (?) i am not so sure if they are always active despite being on the reserve party as the wiki didnt specified
Renko,Shou,Sanae,Miko(?),Nazrin,Satori(?),Kogasa(?),Rumia,Komachi,Chen,Reimu,Rinnosuke,Keine,Anyone with proof of kinship,Diva class,Appraiser class,Elementalist class(?)
-
Assuming you were to make a challenge run just using the front liners and never swapping them,which of these reserve passive characters would be the most useful? the ones with a (?) i am not so sure if they are always active despite being on the reserve party as the wiki didnt specified
Renko,Shou,Sanae,Miko(?),Nazrin,Satori(?),Kogasa(?),Rumia,Komachi,Chen,Reimu,Rinnosuke,Keine,Anyone with proof of kinship,Diva class,Appraiser class,Elementalist class(?)
Diva and Rumia wouldn't be that good I think, since more battles=more money/experience/items, I guess you could use it to clear flors quickly and then just find a spot to grind but still. Miko's extra buffs do apply from the back (albeit only an extra 8%), Satori and Elementalist (he/she needs to actually take a hit first) don't work from the back. Kogasa doesn't have any skills that take effect from the back. You forgot Eiki's damage reduction which also works from the back when she awakens.
More rewards with Rinnosuke, Komachi, Nazrin, Shou, Keine and lots of Appraisers would be my pick, with Reimu and Sanae for TP/MP restoration and maybe Renko for the extra resistances. Late game wise probably Proof of Kinship (provided the character's actually have it either way). It's worth noting that depending on the characters you're using you can benefit from certain passives like the MAlice Cannon, Youmu's synergy with Yuyuko, etc. I believe the skill that gives you the largest boost is Maribel's Vision Sharing, which you can technically use if one of your frontliners is Ran.
-
Honestly, the last couple floors in the main game are unbearably annyoing without Chen + Rumia/Renko, especially since you can easily get there while being 10-20 levels "behind". Enemies casting Ether Flare, Calming Scent or Black Universe while being ridiculously fast are just a pain, especially if you're using Strategist for first turn instead of Aya. Several of the "extra" postgame areas are in the same boat, honestly. Even after that, I found Rumia quite useful for not shooting past the challenge levels in Plus Disk so things can be actually challenging without special effort.
Also, one thing that deadweight backliners can do is power up anyone with Ame-No-Murakumo's Blessing
. That subclasse's buff absorbing skill works on allies in the back as well. If your back liners have buffs that activate even in the back[Sorcerer/Warror/Enduring Celestial], then your buff absorber will get a head start from them. This works even better with Ran's all buff skills, to the point where they can give the Ame-No-Murakumo's Blessing
character 100% buffs in the relevant stat from 1-2 casts. The negative of this is that they'll also leech away the buffs of Byakuren or your squishy and hard to buff attackers.
-
Honestly,if you just want to explore floors use Aya,put chen and a third character with diva subclass on the reserve,and stack as much TP bonuses as possible on aya,with her 'battle start at 20000 ATB' you should be able to flee from anything despite being the only frontliner
EDIT
i just found out violent green rupee bonus works even when holder is on the backline,time to find out how to get more of these
EDIT2
Massive kedama and kokoro shadow are missing sprites,is that normal? figured the kedama was so huge it wouldnt fit on the screen
-
Yeah, I do remember Shadow Kokoro not having a sprite. All I can say is that its not a problem with the translation patch, since it was still not there in my untranslated playthrough.
-
Apparently i am missing two shadows to complete them all,i will figure out tomorrow how to get inside the boss spot sorrounded by slippery tiles with clearly no way to go in on view
I suppose a drop down or teleporter arrow must be used somewhere
-
Nah, there is a way, you just need to do your sliding properly (it is a bit complicated, yeah)
-
Went up against Yukari, lost all my huge damage dealers I put a lot of money into in the first few turns of the fight. Decided to try suicide tactics so I could retry and beat her up super easy the next time. After a few turns of trying to die, it takes too long so I decide to try and see how long it can play out. I beat her lmao. I tried to die in that fight and I still won.
Overall, the temperature maze was definitely a lot more enjoyable than 10-12F from LoT1. Not as much of a slogfest thankfully. I think the reduced amount of encounters helped to make it a smoother experience.
-
So I finally gave up on ever seeing this game getting its last intended updates and decided to just play it as soon as theres a good enough english patch.
Can someone tell me just how useable the most recent english patch is? Is dialogue completely translated? UI, spells etc? I dont want to start a run only to find out that I understand nothing once I hit a certain point.
Another unrelated question, am I the only one who, since a long time now, keeps getting database errors over and over again when browsing this site? Even posting a reply is a pain and it just loads until it finally stops and I have to refresh to try again.
-
So I finally gave up on ever seeing this game getting its last intended updates and decided to just play it as soon as theres a good enough english patch.
Can someone tell me just how useable the most recent english patch is? Is dialogue completely translated? UI, spells etc? I dont want to start a run only to find out that I understand nothing once I hit a certain point.
Another unrelated question, am I the only one who, since a long time now, keeps getting database errors over and over again when browsing this site? Even posting a reply is a pain and it just loads until it finally stops and I have to refresh to try again.
the lastest one translates all items,skills and names,everything else is guess work,you can pretty much get to the end with it
And yes i am also getting a database error frequently
I reached Hollow yamata no orochi but the game crashes on both versions,EN sprite doesnt appear and will crash once he gets a turn,on the japanese version the battle wont start at all due to a crash
-
im busy with LoT1 but i think the full patch from LoT2 base game is now in the expansions English patch, so its English everything until post game, but the post game story is just kinda "explore because rpgs are fun" anyway.
also just to plug my mod, i posted my Touhou Labyrinth 1 mod over here last night https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=21102.new#new
labyrinth 2 is always be the better game, but people wanting to play through labyrinth 1 again, this can help make it more enjoyable :)
hopefully i can get some feedback, if not its fine didn't make it to seek attention. (altho there is something im making for attention seeking, but thats a secret project for now...) The mod doesn't change the games balance, just makes it overall much more enjoyable. read more in the actual post link.
-
Managed to run the game using the patch that just translates the main game but not the plus disk
Ame no murakumo remilia and warrior flandre did all the damage on hollow orochi,the only RNG part was hoping meiling or kasen survived his desperation move to pull attackers out and finish him off
also,still no sprite display on Hollow orochi,how odd
Whats the next superboss? Serpent of chaos or kedama goddess? time to grind infinite corridor
-
Is it a reasonable goal to be able to withstand all the attacks of the golden orbs (minus HP cutters) with minimal (<200) damage on Meiling??
Im struggling a lot with this fight, I can still grind a bit more and be under the recommended level but I keep getting fastly decimated on all accounts, and the opening barrage alone eliminates up to two people before I even get a turn.
General advice would be appreciated :)
EDIT: Nevermind, after a ton of retries and a few minor party adjustments I hit a really lucky break and managed to take it down :)
-
The three orb fight is a fight where getting the first turn is really useful. With Aya or Strategist subclass, you can fairly trivially kill the Orb of Reverse time before it can even act. It has low DTH resistance, little health and is vulnerable to DRK, so Yuyuko or any strong DRK attacker[Especially Flandre] can usually take it out quickly if you can get the first turn. Yukari's Spiriting Away could help cinch the deal if you don't QUITE have the burst damage to kill it before it can act. After that, its mostly a matter of grinding down the center orb with bulky PHY sustained attackers like Remilia/Meiling/Momiji. The Orb of the Canopy has annoying heals/defense buffs, but you can outspeed it pretty hard since its vulnerable to HVY.
-
If yukari spiriting away uses all her MP,wouldnt it be better to get as much regen as possible and lower her max MP with a main item?
-
If you want to use spiriting away repeatedly you need Satori, who can regen 25% of her max mp via a swap.
Yukari also doesn't need to lower her max mp regardless of strat because it doesn't COST max mp- it just uses up any extra to lower it's delay.
-
If yukari spiriting away uses all her MP,wouldnt it be better to get as much regen as possible and lower her max MP with a main item?
The thing is, Spiriting Away's delay goes down as the extra amount of MP it consumes goes up. With enough(50ish, I think) MP, Yukari will go just before everyone else affected by it, which is generally useful, especially with instant attack. At the very least, she can concentrate immediately afterwards to get a head start on replenishing all that MP.
And yeah, Satori is generally better for spamming Spiriting Away. I build Yukari as a fairly pure mage and thus only end up using Spiriting Away when I REALLY need to squeeze in a lot of damage very quickly. Support Yukari needs her MP slightly less, but having a really good defense buff and an aoe -50% speed debuff/paralyze also require MP.
-
Yeah between Reimu and Meiling I was able to reasonably survive most of Reverse Time's attacks with little issue but it wasn't good long term especially if RT kept spamming the hardest hitting ones in a row combined with HP cutters. Just had to get a lucky break where I didn't have that happen so much and I managed to take down Canopy and then nuked Forward Time with Nitori (who had like 15K attack and hit like 220K i think unbuffed haha) and Yuugi. I didn't really have enough burst damage to take down Reverse time super fast nor did I have any previous investment in Yukari and I wasn't about to grind her stats up from nothing.
By the way, how do you actually use Byakuren??? I feel like she's way too fragile to let her buffs build up over time at the moment, is heavy investment required to get mileage out of her?? She can't attack worth a damn either. I tried building her with SPD to spam her turns for buff building but she died in one hit to everything if she was out.
-
With Byakuren it's better to just build her tanky, focusing particularly in increasing her HP (since it's one of the best in the game). For her skills, her HP recovery and SPD buff are the most important imo, so get them first. Which of her other sutras you get depend on whether you want her to act as an offensive or defensive buffer. I would recommend the latter since getting DEF and MND makes her tankier. Once you get enough skillpoints to learn all her sutras she can act as an all around buffer.
For building up her buffs, using other buffers (Sanae, for example) as well as a Strategist to decrease decay helps her build them faster; you can spam Skanda's Legs for the SPD buff as well.
-
Byakuren can maintain her buffs at 100% with her passives if there's a strategist out (which is a great subclass for herself!), which is when she gets tanky. You really should have someone else help buff her up at the start though- she can cast Duplicating Scroll on herself once she has some buffs, but it'd take too long to wait for them to slowly roll up. She's an OK attacker but because of her slow levels/expensive library it's actually not -that- exciting, so it's best to use her for support and buffs.
It's a little awkward until she can afford to max all her sutras, but she's pretty solid at that point. At 100% buffs with maxed chant, she'll dole out 56% all-buffs whilst never needing a buff herself and regenerating her own HP, so it's like Sanae on drugs.
-
Does anybody know if the Stat Boost items (incl. boost 2 and mega boost), as well as the Stat Jewels can be found on the
endless corridor (aside from the shop after each floor)
? Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been asked already.
-
Does anybody know if the Stat Boost items (incl. boost 2 and mega boost), as well as the Stat Jewels can be found on the endless corridor (aside from the shop after each floor)
? Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been asked already.
They can all be found in chests in the endless corridor.
-
How rare are the Daphnid Pack? I've taken some stairs down, come back up to 9f, cut down some vines, went down that staircase again and am lurking on 8f looking for them in the area which as far as I can tell the wiki says they're here, but have not found them after 50 battles or so.
Just for the bestiary, really.
Edit: Must've misread. Just found one on 9f.
-
I've been having a lot of fun playing this game!
However one problem I had over and over was that I'd be fighting a boss, I'd notice they are weak to [element] - so of course I'd want to bring in party members who can target that weakness... but remembering who has which elements is very hard with all these characters!
So, I made a spreadsheet. It just condenses all the (attack) spellcard information (which I pulled from the lovely wiki). The idea is that I can use it to quickly find the characters who can target [element], and see the details of their spellcards that do so.
I made it just for my personal use, but here's the link if it is something you might like as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11ZxLrDv1LH7AODlELKjZ6p70VMNvtG6J-ZcrFMRe6YQ/edit?usp=sharing (Also, obviously it has spoilers for the characters who join the party, don't click it if you don't want to know that)
-
How does proof of kindship work? say i got 4 SDM members on the front and one on the back,the one on the back will give 50% its effect to the front row?
patchy please be useful for once
time to grind,serpent of chaos is kicking my SDM party left and right like ragdolls,doesnt help he has a party switch move followed by a nuke
best grinding floor?
-
Upon reading that, I went through a little quiz for myself and found that there were few characters where I'd miss the mark on the elements of their abilities. I'd remember most of the elements they have but not all of them.
Wouldn't really advise switching around your party too much though, as Library levels dictate a small group of characters can keep up stat wise. Not going to be able to get library levels up to snuff if you're spreading your money that thinly unless you want to grind more for money and over level.
As an aside, I think if your library level for a stat is over 1.2x the character's level, you're over leveled.
SDM synergy skill gives 10% stats per member in the front row, excluding the user herself. Patchy in the back would give an additional 5% to the user instead of the full 10.
-
Science
i just found out everyone else sans byakuren and utsuho flat out useless,like canon fooder useless
i admit being guilty of pumping flandre and remilia stats to consistently clear floor thrash with just the monk attack all command for grinding purposes
-
Worth noting there's a new translation patch.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/040z0feuctz07l0/Labyrinth2%20v2103%20text%20files%20and%20exe%2010-29-2017.rar?dl=0
-Dialogue is done up to 23F (and down to B5F). Random tidbit: the dialogue when fighting the base game's final boss has actually been modified a fair bit to cater for the plus disk story.
-Incorporated changes from posts in this topic
-Several fixes for untranslated text or overflows or not doing double %s to show percentage signs in-game
-Added space(?) needed to fix the purple key bug in the Infinity Corridor
-
Can confirm i can now pick infinite keys without the game crashing
and fight hollow orochi without a crash,i cant test the elemental orochis for now
also fixed the buggy explanation of some infinite corridor bonuses
until what level i must grind to kill the serpent with 4 competent members? i know i am very far from it :V
-
tbh those levels look fairly close to me. I did it with Iku 540 (equivalent to Reimu 558, Meiling has the same leveling rate) and 600 (60 for affinity) library levels on each character. It looks more like your library levels and probably equipment need work though, judging from the HP counts. Flandre's got VOI resistance (-50% damage) so she has a special advantage there, she should only need about 300K HP to comfortably survive. The other characters will need about 450K HP with Transcendent and Strategist bonuses. Meiling can tank better with Gatekeeper Nap's 32% damage reduction (what a ridiculous skill) so she'll need less HP than that, but she naturally has the most HP of the SDM cast anyway. For equipment, Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" and the Chrysanthemum Katana are the more common high HP boosting equipment pieces, but Regalia (if you can craft it) and the Quartz Charm (random treasure in the Corridor so you don't have to buy it) are really good too, and the item from beating the B10f boss (+400% to all stats).
You have to endure the VOI attack a second time if you can't defeat the boss in a few turns after the first VOI attack, and unfortunately, the boss can use Scythe of Calamity (as well as Greatsword of Calamity) to reduce your party's max HP. If it does that once, the majority of the cast can't withstand its VOI attacks, so whether you fight with 4 or 12 characters, you're always facing a chance of being annihilated without being able to do anything about it. Running with 12 characters that can all withstand the VOI attacks can minimize the RNG elements of the fight though. Basically, 400-450K HP should do it (need Transcendent and/or Strategist for this to work), although Patchouli is weak to VOI so she's always a potential liability. I previously said she (and Kaguya) have a +20% damage VOI weakness, but a different damage test on the JP wiki says it's actually double damage, so yeah. You might want to go so far as to remove her from the party for the fight if you don't want to deal with that possibility of her being dragged out by Time-Space Warp.
-
ah so the purge attack is only casted twice? that changes things abit,now i just need to make them sturdy to survive the onslaught of AOE spells without dying,the monk NTR spell seems like the most effective one on the boss
quartz charm stacks? for a flat 60% reduction? then what if you also stack that with the greater awakening % bonuses? assuming you stack at all the way to 50/2 points
you get a total of 85% damage reduction and increase,what?
i still wonder,does quartz charm work with characters who double equip stats or not?
-
Pretty sure tests in the past showed that maintenance-type bonuses didn't seem to work on the weirder bonuses like increased weakness damage, mp recovery when hitting weakness, sometimes do double damage, etc.
Which is for the best, quartz charm would be absolutely stupid if doubled. Especially after a second one :V
-
putting three on one character already looks stupid,i am pretty sure there must be some cheese to get near 100% reduction,looking at you meiling
WHY THESE !!!!! chests keep giving me bad items?! (yes opened with key or amulets)
-
I'm not sure if 3 on one character would actually be ideal- at that point you're probably want to throw on something with general affinity boosts and/or stats, etc. However, I dunno how stat inflation goes in late plus disk.
-
With library points and an affinity boost tome most of the cast gets affinities on the range of 200-300, increasing affinities beyond that point gives relatively small returns (from 200 to 400 you still get a 25% damage reduction but from 300 to 500 you only get a 13% if I'm not wrong), so, particularly for characters with balanced affinitites, boosting affinities is not that important beyond a certain point. On the other hand, depending on how much damage the enemy does, decreasing damage received by a flat percentage might be better than increasing your HP/defences. Plus, the decrease in damage works against VOI element, which you can't increase the affinity of either way.
Offensively, I'm not sure if the flat increase in damage done is better than just boosting your ATK/MAG though.
Still, do Quartz Charm's actually stack additively? I had assumed that even if they stacked, that would be mutiplicatively (In which case one Quartz Charm and 2 Medicine's of Life would probably be better for tanking).
-
i will cheat engine a third charm and get the greater awakening to 50,that should add 85% right?
which characters or subclass can cover the last 15%? of course,thats after i find out that character greater awakening value so i can set it to 50
-
which characters or subclass can cover the last 15%? of course,thats after i find out that character greater awakening value so i can set it to 50
Strategist decreases damage taken by the front line by 10% with Ironclad Strategy, and Transcendent's Enhanced Combat can decrease damage taken by 10%. Does that help?
-
Was thinking more of self sufficient refuction,in theory if a character can reach 100% damage reduction she can solo any enemy,right? as long as she can damage it
-
ah so the purge attack is only casted twice? that changes things abit,now i just need to make them sturdy to survive the onslaught of AOE spells without dying,the monk NTR spell seems like the most effective one on the boss
quartz charm stacks? for a flat 60% reduction? then what if you also stack that with the greater awakening % bonuses? assuming you stack at all the way to 50/2 points
you get a total of 85% damage reduction and increase,what?
The Time-Space Warp + VOI combination the boss uses is only used at about 70-80% of its HP and 40-50% of its HP (but it seems to have other set behaviors that take priority over the second use), but according to the JP wiki, it can also use Space Compression. I have not personally seen it do that though (fought it a few times to make sure my strategy was foolproof, also haven't seen any gameplay recordings of it from others featuring the attack), and it seems weird for it to have Space Compression, since it already has a VOI attack with the exact same animation. For attacking the boss, from the damage calculations I've run, Warrior's Explosive Flame Sword does more damage, but that varies depending on your attacker's ATK, buffs, and skills. If you're not maxing out ATK buffs, Iron Mountain Charge will do more damage. The boss has above average DEF/MND (1m from my calculations), but not exceptionally high. The 30f Diamond Knight, for example, had 900K DEF/MND from my damage tests, and that was level 348 (just for fun, to put in perspective how silly main game's boss DEF/MND was, Guardian of the Crystals had 1.28m DEF/MND, and Desire-Eating Demon had 1.54m/2.4m DEF/MND).
Murakumo's Blessing
backed Lavaetein would be your best bet for damage overall though, regardless of ATK/MAG and such. Flandre is actually fairly durable in Plus Disk compared to other characters due to her high HP, DEF/MND doesn't amount to too much with how high boss ATK/MAG is.
Quartz Charms (and all % damage increases/reductions) are multiplicative, so it stacks to 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 0.512, or a 49.8% damage reduction (and a 72.8% damage increase). Of course, stats (most importantly, HP) would also be very low, stacking Quartz Charm is not the best defensive setup. It's more important that you can have multiple characters with Quartz Charms instead, as it's a strong equipment for offense + defense, and one of the best defenses against VOI attacks.
I'm not sure if 3 on one character would actually be ideal- at that point you're probably want to throw on something with general affinity boosts and/or stats, etc. However, I dunno how stat inflation goes in late plus disk.
I've been thinking of doing a write-up on damage reduction as a sort of follow-up on the one for damage stacking that I did (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20421.msg1366630.html#msg1366630) now seems as good a time as any with it being relevant to the conversation now.
So like with the damage stacking, I'll be using Tenshi (level 526) with library levels of 600 (60 for affinity), with max Orbs/Gems and all regular Boost skills except HP/ATK (Second Boost) and Awakening unlocked, and no subclass (yet). By default, her (relevant) stats would be
HP: 157,118
DEF: 110,292
MND: 108,914
WND/SPI/PHY: 272
FIR/CLD/NTR: 192
MYS/DRK: 152
From my damage calculations, the 100f Infinite Corridor boss has 800K ATK/MAG. It's also capable of using the basic Direct Attack (100% ATK - 50% T.DEF). I'll use that as a damage calculation example.
Damage = (Attack Power - T.Defense Power) * Multiplier * (100 / T.Affinity) * Random Number (any number between 0.9 and 1.1)
Damage = (800,000 - (110,292 * 0.5) * 1 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 273,843
This is 174% of Tenshi's HP on average. Obviously intolerable, but this is its maximum damage. Tenshi gets a +33% DEF/MND bonus at the start of a battle and -30% damage from PHY attacks, so applying that, it becomes
Damage = (800,000 - (110,292 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 187,007
This is 119% of Tenshi's HP on average. So that's already pretty close to being tolerable, but even minimum damage is still a one-shot. Now, let's look at some equipment! This is the exciting, complicated part of damage reduction.
The main equipment pieces that offer defensive bonuses are First-Aid Kit (+4.8 to HP growth, only 3 exist), Life Aura (reduces incoming damage by 8% of max HP, low chance to negate damage), and Tokugawa Statue (+12 MP/TP, +1.2 to all base stats, rare item). For defensive/support characters, you generally want one of these three, or a Ribbon (which, thankfully, exists in infinite quantities in the Corridor). For an attacking character, Divine Falchion and Tokugawa Statue (again) offer the best offensive bonuses, but sometimes you need some extra defensive bonuses anyway.
Sub equipment is a lot more diverse. I'll name the most relevant pieces that I've found to be helpful.
Quartz Charm: Damage dealt+20%, Damage taken-20%, DTH+100
Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess": HP/ATK+412%, MAG/SPD+199%, FIR+144, DRK+72, PAR/TRR/DTH+40
Chrysanthemum Katana: HP/ATK/DEF/MAG+368%, SPD+256%, PHY+50, DTH+50
Ama no Habakiri: All stats+400% (only 1 exists, prize for defeating Yamata no Orochi Hollow
)
Regalia: HP+600%, All affinity+172
Power Dragon Scale Mail: HP/ATK/MND+330%, DEF+660%, FIR/CLD/WND/NTR+100, MYS/SPI/DRK/PHY+40
Machine God Lucifer: All stats+666%, MYS/SPI/DRK/PHY+66
Scourge: ATK+800%, DEF+400%, PHY+100
Medicine of Life: HP+1280%, PSN/PAR/SIL/DTH+128
Long Sword "Ringil": MP+4, ATK+360%, MND/SPD+560%, Hit+32, CLD/MYS+100
Tupsimati: MP+6, HP/DEF/MND+300%, MAG+800%, MYS/SPI/DRK+99
I won't be running damage tests for all of these things though, of course. Since the current test attack is a Direct Attack, the most likely scenario to suffer one would be from the leftmost slot, which is occupied by tanks or support characters. As such, the most relevant setup would be for tanking hits, so focusing on that as opposed to a bulky attacker setup. For that, Tenshi (and most characters in general) would most likely be a Strategist. Strategists reduce damage to frontline characters (including themselves) by 10% and get +0.4 to their base DEF/MND. So her new base stats are
HP: 157,118
DEF: 113,048
MND: 111,670
I'll also bring up level bonuses here. With max HP investment, she's looking at 347,472 HP. With max DEF investment, she's looking at 250,010 DEF. I'll run damage calculations for both scenarios right here.
Max HP investment: Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 167,881 (48.3% of Tenshi's HP)
Max DEF investment: Damage = (800,000 - (250,010 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 146,786 (93.4% of Tenshi's HP)
The disparity is incredible. This is basically why I say DEF/MND is meaningless. Let's just pretend Tenshi has 0 DEF for a second to illustrate this further (Rasetsu Fist is basically a DEF ignoring Direct Attack anyway)
Max HP investment: Damage = 800,000 * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 185,294 (53.3% of Tenshi's HP).
Yeah. All further tests will be assuming max HP investment.
Anyway, there's still a possibility of being two-shotted by a basic attack. This is not exactly tank material, so let's look at investing in equipment next. Let's start with some sub equipment pieces. I'll be adding 1 piece of equipment at a time.
Quartz Charm (reduces damage by 20%)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 134,305 (38.6% of Tenshi's HP)
Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (HP+412% = 397,266)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 167,881 (42.2% of Tenshi's HP)
Chrysanthemum Katana (HP+368% = 391,948, DEF+368% = 145,049, +50 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (145,049 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 322) * 1 = 137,649 (35.1% of Tenshi's HP)
Regalia (HP+600% = 419,988, +172 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 102,846 (24.4% of Tenshi's HP)
Medicine of Life (HP+1280% = 502,173)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 272) * 1 = 167,881 (33.4% of Tenshi's HP)
Machine God Lucifer (HP+666% = 427,965, DEF+666% = 170,963, +66 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 338) * 1 = 127,921 (29.8% of Tenshi's HP)
So Regalia is the strongest piece of damage reducing sub equipment in the 1st slot. This makes sense, since it nearly caps out her PHY affinity (500 affinity is the cap, any more than that doesn't further reduce damage). But this results in diminishing returns, so stacking 3x Regalia is not the best way to tank. Still, it's better to explain that through damage calculations, so repeating these 6 items with Regalia assumed in the 1st slot (so Tenshi's HP is 419,988 and her PHY affinity is 444)
Quartz Charm (reduces damage by 20%)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 82,277 (19.5% of Tenshi's HP)
Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (HP+412% = 469,782)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 102,846 (21.8% of Tenshi's HP)
Chrysanthemum Katana (HP+368% = 464,464, DEF+368% = 145,049, +50 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (145,049 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 494) * 1 = 89,723 (19.3% of Tenshi's HP)
Regalia (HP+600% = 492,504, PHY+172)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 91,327 (18.5% of Tenshi's HP)
Medicine of Life (HP+1280% = 574,689)
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = 102,846 (17.8% of Tenshi's HP)
Machine God Lucifer (HP+666% = 500,481, DEF+666% = 170,963, PHY+66)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (17.2% of Tenshi's HP)
...actually I wasn't expecting that MGL would be the best 2nd piece of equipment. Well. OK then. Let's go for a 3rd piece with MGL in the 2nd slot now. HP is currently 500,481, DEF is 170,963, and PHY affinity is capped at 500.
Quartz Charm (reduces damage by 20%)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 69,180 (13.8% of Tenshi's HP)
Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (HP+412% = 550,275)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (15.7% of Tenshi's HP)
Chrysanthemum Katana (HP+368% = 544,957, DEF+368% = 202,964, +50 PHY)
Damage = (800,000 - (202,964 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 83,793 (15.3% of Tenshi's HP)
Regalia (HP+600% = 572,997, PHY+172)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (15% of Tenshi's HP)
Medicine of Life (HP+1280% = 655,182)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (13.1% of Tenshi's HP)
Machine God Lucifer (HP+666% = 580,974, DEF+666% = 228,878, PHY+66)
Damage = (800,000 - (228,878 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 81,622 (14% of Tenshi's HP)
Now Medicine of Life comes out on top. MGL capping the affinity boosted it up in the 2nd slot, even though the damage reduction going from 444 to 500 is merely a 2.5% decrease (from 22.5% to 20%).
So the best sub equipment setup possible for defensive purposes in this context is 1 Regalia, 1 Machine God Lucifer, and 1 Medicine of Life. With that done, next would be main equipment.
First-Aid Kit (HP Growth+4.8 = 793,634)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 86,475 (10.8% of Tenshi's HP)
Life Aura (reduces damage by 8% of max HP, which is 52,414)
Damage = (800,000 - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = (86,475 - 52,414) = 34,061 (5.1% of Tenshi's HP)
Tokugawa Statue (HP Growth+1.2 = 689,768, DEF Growth+1.2 = 183,467)
Damage = (800,000 - (183,467 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = 85,427 (12.3% of Tenshi's HP)
So the strongest main equipment for this setup is Life Aura. Given how Life Aura works, a setup with 1 Regalia and 2 Medicine of Life, for an alternate example, would have 767,893 HP, 113,048 DEF, and 444 PHY affinity, with a damage reduction effect of 61,431
Damage = (800,000 - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 444) * 1 = (102,846 - 61,431) = 41,415 (5.3% of Tenshi's HP)
This is still a little bit worse than the previous setup, so stacking HP is not quite as effective as stacking affinity and HP even when you're in the mid 400s. So 1 Life Aura, 1 Regalia, 1 MGL, and 1 Medicine of Life forms the best setup for defending against the 100f Corridor boss' Direct Attack as Tenshi. For its Rasetsu Fist, it looks like
Damage = 800,000 * 0.7 * 0.9 * (100 / 500) * 1 = (100,800 - 52,414) = 48,386 (7.3% of Tenshi's HP)
Pretty low. But this has all been looking at the boss' PHY attacks, which Tenshi takes the least amount of damage from compared to the whole cast. Let's look at her weakness, DRK, and its Greatsword of Calamity, which is a 116% ATK - 54% T.DEF ((108% ATK - 50% T.DEF) * 1.08) DRK element attack. With the current setup, Tenshi's DRK affinity is 152 + 172 + 66 = 390.
Damage = (800,000 * 1.08) - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 1.08 * (100 / 390) = (192,142 - 52,414) = 139,728 (21.3% of Tenshi's HP)
That's a hefty amount of max HP lost right there, and Greatsword of Calamity isn't even that strong a single target attack. It is, however, the boss' strongest single-target attack, short of its VOI attacks. So this is reasonably safe. Of course, all of this equipment is also really busted, so let's go with something more reasonable, like 3 Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" instead. HP like that is 523,083, DEF is 113,048, and DRK affinity is 152 + 72 +72 + 72 = 368. Life Aura's damage reduction is 41,846.
Damage = (800,000 * 1.08) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 1.08 * (100 / 368) = (208,715 - 41,846) = 166,869 (31.9% of Tenshi's HP).
Factoring in unfortunate damage variance, this is a potential 3HKO, and each strike reduces Tenshi's maximum HP. But it's pretty easy to get this setup (each CLP costs 20 Infinite Stones from Akyuu's shop to buy, and is a somewhat uncommon drop in the Corridor itself) and you don't really need something better than this.
But this is all about its elemental attacks. The VOI ones are where it's really scary. I dunno the exact damage formula for it, and assuming Space Compression's damage formula got me results that didn't seem to match up, but it has the same animation and delay, so maybe I just got its ATK/MAG wrong. Regardless, this is the best I've got to work with presently. Space Compression is a 66% ATK - 25% T.DEF VOI attack. First up would be the 3 LS CLP setup.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 = (441,370 - 41,846) = 399,524 (76.3% of Tenshi's HP)
Survivable, but with prior damage it's tough. I suspect that the attack may actually ignore DEF/MND (whichever it uses), which would bump it up to 82.8%, but that's still doable. Anyway, VOI resistant characters are obviously much better at tanking these attacks. Most characters with VOI resistance take half or less damage from VOI attacks. Tenshi would have better durability with First-Aid Kit instead of Life Aura here. With a First-Aid Kit, she's looking at 601,850 HP.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 = 441,370 (73.3% of Tenshi's HP)
I didn't say it was a lot better, though. On the other hand, 1 Quartz Charm + 2 Crimson Lotus Princess with the First-Aid Kit is a good improvement. With this setup, Tenshi has 541,533 HP.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 353,096 (65.2% of Tenshi's HP)
A substantial improvement, and the best you can get using easy to acquire equipment (since you have a guaranteed Quartz Charm from the main game). Though you'd be better off using the Quartz Charm(s) you have on attacking characters, since they have a much harder time meeting the requirements to survive the VOI attack, since they can't dump their levels in HP without losing out on damage.
Now, looking at the earlier "OP" setup with Regalia, MGL, Medicine of Life, and Life Aura, Tenshi's looking like this.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (170,963 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 = (424,039 - 52,414) = 371,625 (56.7% of Tenshi's HP)
Pretty comfortably withstanding it now. Of course, this is not the best setup for surviving VOI attacks since it was directed toward surviving elemental attacks instead.
But it's unlikely anyone wants to read through all those damage calculations a second time, so I'll spare showing the work there. The best setup for surviving the boss' VOI attack with Tenshi is 1 Quartz Charm and 2 Medicine of Life with a First-Aid Kit. This gives Tenshi a tremendous 795,684 HP and 20% damage reduction.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (113,048 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 353,096 (44.3% of Tenshi's HP)
Medicine of Life makes it fairly easy for anyone to survive the boss' VOI attack.
That more or less summarizes the math for tanky builds. For elemental attacks, stacking affinity and HP (especially affinity) is the best way to reduce damage, DEF/MND has a low effect. For VOI attacks, stacking damage reducing effects (which is just Quartz Charm) and HP is the best way to reduce damage. HP is more important here. The tricky part is when you also have to balance status resistances as well. This goes for attacking characters to an even greater extent, but they don't (usually) have to withstand a boss' strongest attacks.
This hasn't touched upon how to gear up bulky attackers to withstand attacks, but I've already written a ton here, I think I'll save it for another time.
-
Huh. Character balance would certainly change in late Plus if your def/mnd doesn't matter that much, rather than mostly your HP. Suddenly characters like Satori and Flandre are... actually tanky? While other characters who have high def or mnd but middling/low hp... oops.
-
tbh the only low HP high DEF/MND character in the game was Tenshi, and Awakening gives her above average HP so that archetype somehow doesn't properly exist as a character in this game. But yeah, let's look at Satori and Flandre for a second since they were name dropped (and are good examples of this in play).
I haven't caught up on my old progress with Labyrinth of Touhou 2 so I can't properly compare with Tenshi's level, but at Reimu 540 (Tenshi would be at 509 here as opposed to 526), Satori's looking at level 494, and Flandre is level 492. I'll use the same HP Second Boost, max Orbs/Gems, library level 600, max HP level bonus investment, etc thing I did before. Just going to use the 100f Infinite Corridor boss' VOI attack as a comparison with the "normal" setup for surviving it, First-Aid Kit + 1 Quartz Charm + 2 Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess". Subclass is gonna be Strategist (though Flandre should really be calculated as a bulky attacker, this is just for the sake of a comparison).
Satori's (relevant) stats would look like
HP: 527,479
DEF: 59,605
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (59,605 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 369,431 (70% of Satori's HP)
4.8% more damage than 526 Tenshi took
Flandre's relevant stats would look like
HP: 534,154
DEF: 70,330
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (70,330 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 367,500 (68.8% of Flandre's HP)
3.6% more damage than 526 Tenshi took. This is ignoring that Flandre actually has 200 VOI resistance, so she would take 183,750 damage on average instead (34.4% of her HP).
As a quick reminder, the characters with VOI resistance are (based on the most recent damage tests done so far)
150 VOI (-33% damage): Nazrin, Eiki, Eirin
200 VOI (-50% damage): Komachi, Akyuu, Parsee, Flandre, Koishi
400 VOI (-75% damage): Maribel
-
tbh the only low HP high DEF/MND character in the game was Tenshi, and Awakening gives her above average HP so that archetype somehow doesn't properly exist as a character in this game.
There are some other examples, like Parsee, who has godlike mind and pretty decent def but garbage HP. Her MND might still be enough to put a dent in magic, but sounds like her low hp would be a very bad problem. And poor, poor Patchouli- before a first aid kit could fix her magic weakness but her Awakening hp bonus is still pretty low, and it sounds like -she's- probably on the level of a wasted team slot, even with the sdm members.
Mamizou also sounds a lot better, considering she has heavy hp and builds up 20% damage resist. The fact that her resist requires normal attacks is slightly goofy though, since it can make her cycle away from the element that hits weakness... just more reason to sub her as Sorc for powerful 86% delay normals, which tbh might be competitive for damage with her actual skills anyway.
-
I'm not sure I fully understand the math behind it, but wouldn't investing in Health that much make it difficult for healers to keep pace? They already need to invest in defensive stats to stay alive and speed to keep pace, it seems like they wouldn't be able to keep pace with the damage output bosses perform. Also, would Quartz Charm and Life Aura reduce the amount of healing a character receives from abilities? (Though you could just use Eirin to bypass both these issues thanks to her set percent heal.)
-
Not sure if its coincidence,but there is always a infinity key near a !!!! or !!!!! chests when i grind for items
just me?
-
There are some other examples, like Parsee, who has godlike mind and pretty decent def but garbage HP. Her MND might still be enough to put a dent in magic, but sounds like her low hp would be a very bad problem. And poor, poor Patchouli- before a first aid kit could fix her magic weakness but her Awakening hp bonus is still pretty low, and it sounds like -she's- probably on the level of a wasted team slot, even with the sdm members.
Mamizou also sounds a lot better, considering she has heavy hp and builds up 20% damage resist. The fact that her resist requires normal attacks is slightly goofy though, since it can make her cycle away from the element that hits weakness... just more reason to sub her as Sorc for powerful 86% delay normals, which tbh might be competitive for damage with her actual skills anyway.
Parsee doesn't have it too bad since she has a good leveling rate (at Reimu 540, Parsee's at 534), using the setup described earlier she's sitting at 414,518 HP, which is "only" 23% less than what Flandre has. Since Parsee has 200 VOI she actually has a lot more durability than she looks, since she can resist everything in the game effectively. Patchouli though, her leveling rate is one of the worst, she's looking at level 487 instead, which puts her at 364,110 HP instead, which is 32% less than what Flandre has. The VOI weakness is too much for her to really deal with too.
If it weren't for that VOI weakness, Patchouli could probably withstand the 100f Corridor boss' VOI attack as a Transcendent with this equipment setup though. As a Transcendent, she'd have 387,070 HP. With a Strategist on the field she'd be guaranteed to survive.
I think I've been a bit misleading with all these calculations though, the 100f Corridor boss' VOI attack (and VOI attacks in general) is ridiculously damaging compared to pretty much everything in the game short of nuke-level attacks like Yuuka's Master Spark, and about twice as strong as any other attack it has (even its single-target ones). Like, I'll do a quick example of what I used for it for Tenshi as a bulky attacker. So with level 526, max ATK for levels (so no HP investment), library 600 (60 for affinity), all stat boosts except HP/ATK (Second Boost here), Murakumo's Blessing
for subclass, and equipment being a First-Aid Kit, Quartz Charm, Ama no Habakiri, and Regalia, stats were
HP: 336,720
DEF: 153,238
MND: 151,436
WND/SPI/PHY: 444
FIR/CLD/NTR: 364
MYS/DRK: 324
So the 100f boss has Earthquake (60% ATK - 50% T.DEF NTR attack), Storm of Dark Flow (84% MAG - 50% T.MND DRK attack), renamed clones of Flowing Hellfire and Wild Dance of Freezing Mist (128% MAG - 64% T.MND FIR/CLD attacks), and Scythe of Calamity (70% ATK - 50% T.DEF DRK attack) for its multi-target attacks, besides its VOI attack (it also has Void Flash Claw, but this is a row attack). Looking at the damage all of these things do,
Earthquake: Damage = (800,000 * 0.6) - (153,238 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 364) = 74,788 (22.2% of Tenshi's HP)
Scythe of Calamity: Damage = (800,000 * 0.7) - (153,238 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 324) = 101,799 (30.2% of Tenshi's HP)
Storm of Dark Flow: Damage = (800,000 * 0.84) - (151,436 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 364) = 126,954 (37.7% of Tenshi's HP)
Flowing Hellfire/Wild Dance of Freezing Mist clones: Damage = 800,000 - (151,436 * 1.33 * 0.5) * 1.28 * 0.9 * 0.8 * (100 / 364) = 177,052 (52.5% of Tenshi's HP)
Space Compression clone: Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (151,238 * 1.33 * 0.25) * 0.9 * 0.8 = 343,474 (102% of Tenshi's HP)
Even low HP characters would be able to survive all of these attacks besides the VOI attack (but not necessarily multiple attacks, at least without healing), but the VOI attack is guaranteed to be used at least once in the fight and is a potential party-wipe so it's one of the most important thresholds to survive. And even with this setup, Tenshi can't survive it (barring fortunate damage variance) without debuffing it. Really shows how important affinity is.
But yeah, that stuff aside, I looked at Mamizou real quick and it looks like she can expect to do at least half as much damage as Iku does with her normal attacks once she caps out the 40% damage buff on Wisdom of Bake-Tanuki, but her delay is 8600 instead of 7000 so she attacks about twice as fast (in theory, looking at their SPD values it does look like in practice as well though). She doesn't pierce MND as effectively and runs buffs out faster, but she actually does have the capacity to make her default attack command pretty good. On paper, it's better than Aspiration Surge (even once the buff is maxed), but in practice, maybe not. Aspiration Surge has an easier time working with Boost effects and buffs.
Needless to say, this actually looks like a good idea for Mamizou, although strictly for MYS weak targets of course.
I'm not sure I fully understand the math behind it, but wouldn't investing in Health that much make it difficult for healers to keep pace? They already need to invest in defensive stats to stay alive and speed to keep pace, it seems like they wouldn't be able to keep pace with the damage output bosses perform. Also, would Quartz Charm and Life Aura reduce the amount of healing a character receives from abilities? (Though you could just use Eirin to bypass both these issues thanks to her set percent heal.)
idk, I didn't run into any problems healing characters while playing like this, but at the same time, I annihilated most bosses before I needed any healing in the first place, and I utilized Akyuu's invincibility a lot as well (her Awakening spell card is apparently bugged and provides invincibility to the leftmost slot). SPD isn't really an issue, and most characters heal for overkill anyway. Like, I tried max HP Healer Rumia for the 100f Corridor boss and she was healing 120K (reduced by Strategist and Quartz Charm) to Tenshi after she took 140K from its Overflowing Hellfire clone (with a -12% MAG debuff), no MAG buff on Rumia. Think she heals about 2.5x as much as that with max MAG investment or something like that, and Rumia is one of the weaker healers in the game with a 33% MAG heal. Single-target heals are usually full heals as well, I've rarely seen Sanae fail to heal herself or anyone else to full with max HP in levels.
I'm not 100% sure about Life Aura (it probably does though), but Quartz Charm does indeed reduce heals by 20% too, I had forgotten about that. It's not quite as good as I make it out to be with the damage calculations because of that. Thanks for pointing that out.
Not sure if its coincidence,but there is always a infinity key near a !!!! or !!!!! chests when i grind for items
just me?
Probably coincidence (I'd call it good luck), I think about 20-30% of those chests I found had a key nearby. Infinite Corridor has some goofy mechanics though, I wouldn't be surprised if some game loads did have an unusually high/guaranteed chance of spawning keys near high level chests.
-
Possibly spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-sfsK1ZAWE
I fought this Kedama boss
at this level and I think I've made Komachi pretty OP. Though as much as I love tanking, I don't like all my characters KO'd like that :(
-
Possibly spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-sfsK1ZAWE
I fought this Kedama boss
at this level and I think I've made Komachi pretty OP. Though as much as I love tanking, I don't like all my characters KO'd like that :(
i hope thats not how the real battle will pan out once the rest of the content is released,i mean how are you supposed to beat it without that strat? pure damage race?
except big C. i had to resort to hexer poison sakuya
to beat it
-
I was wondering, is the New Game + File for Labyrinth of Touhou 2 listed here supposed to not include
Renko and Maribel
?
-
I was wondering, is the New Game + File for Labyrinth of Touhou 2 listed here supposed to not include Renko and Maribel
?
i believe including them breaks some post game content
-
i hope thats not how the real battle will pan out once the rest of the content is released,i mean how are you supposed to beat it without that strat? pure damage race?
Pure damage race seems legit, to be honest. Though I wouldn't worry about it much. As you see from the stats at the end of the video, my average level was 579, while the recommended level for that one I think was 760
?
-
Needless to say, this actually looks like a good idea for Mamizou, although strictly for MYS weak targets of course.
Well, the point is only to max her Awakening passive and get the correct element, or close enough. After that she can graduate to casting skills. Although, yeah, on a mys-weak target she might just want to slam out normals!
-
Well, the plusdisc mainstory was a cakewalk, do yourself a favor and dont use exp-increasing skills and/or items or just run from encounters a lot.
No idea what the post-postgame content is like though aside that the corridor also seems way too easy but I believe enemies there scale even after reaching the 100th floor so that will fix itself unless the rewards increase faster than the enemy difficulty.
That aside, is the wiki wrong about where to find Tokiko and Kokoro
? Haven't seen them at the mentioned floors but Im pretty sure I have explored everything that is available to me at those floors.
Also I'd like to thank the translators for translations, gotta wait for full translations for a run with heavily reduced rewards and actually knowing what was even going on :V
-
Possibly spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-sfsK1ZAWE
I fought this Kedama boss
at this level and I think I've made Komachi pretty OP. Though as much as I love tanking, I don't like all my characters KO'd like that :(
Oh that's interesting, it looks like the testing on the JP wiki wasn't accurate regarding Komachi's VOI resistance. If working under the assumption that she has 200 VOI resistance, that boss should have about 950K ATK.
Damage = (950,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.5 = 304,349 (Damage variance = 273,914-334,783)
The lowest amount shown that Komachi took was 274,387, and the highest was 334,390. This falls within the damage range calculated. But if this were true, then your other characters would have been taking damage in the range of 600K, and they obviously were not (at least not the base damage). But if Komachi had 150 VOI resistance instead, the boss' ATK stat would be in the range of 650K instead.
Damage = (650,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.75 = 308,024 (Damage variance = 277,221-338,026)
On the other hand...this doesn't quite fall into the damage variance range, as the minimum damage calculated is too high. This might just be the results of decimals being dropped, which I'm failing to account for. But, it also gets results that are a little bit too low for other characters as well, as they'd be taking about 380-400K on average. So this can't be right either. An old damage test claimed Komachi had -40% VOI resistance, which is equivalent to about 166 VOI resistance. If that's assumed, then the boss' ATK stat would be in the range of 800K...which would be the same as the result I got for the 100f Corridor boss.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.6 = 305,819 (Damage variance = 275,237-336,400)
Minimum damage is still slightly too high (very likely discrepancies with decimals), but the average damage result on non-VOI resistant targets now hits the 430K range, which looks accurate. Though it looks like Flandre might not have 200 VOI resistance though...this stuff is hard to figure out.
But yeah, anyway, your other party members could have totally tanked it easy with HP stacking. Yukari didn't even have 400K and she was surviving just fine. tbh Kedama Goddess
is actually kinda weak for its level since you have to deal with a similar trial against the 100f Corridor boss, which is 199 levels lower than it. Pretty easy to heal it off provided you can survive it in the first place.
i hope thats not how the real battle will pan out once the rest of the content is released,i mean how are you supposed to beat it without that strat? pure damage race?
You can tank it normally, don't really need to go Komachi solo. Though I can't really provide a good demonstration of that with actual gameplay. Although the 100f Corridor boss does comparable damage, in the run of it I have uploaded, half my party had 1-hit invincibility so you can't really get a good idea of the damage it would have done. And it's a one-time thing anyway since I beat it before the second VOI attack. Seems like a good enough reason to try to grind back to where I was at before and make a run of Kedama Goddess
though. It honestly does feel pretty doable. Might take a few days to get back to where I was at, will see what I can do after I get there.
Well, the point is only to max her Awakening passive and get the correct element, or close enough. After that she can graduate to casting skills. Although, yeah, on a mys-weak target she might just want to slam out normals!
Well, I guess, I just don't like any strategy that's relying on RNG working in your favor. A decent number of bosses (mostly the Abyss Touhou ones) could be beaten by other characters before Mamizou even acquired the right element, and some other bosses would be half-dead. But then again, most bosses have multiple weaknesses anyway, so maybe it's not that bad. Mamizou has good spells for CLD/DRK/SPI (SPI via Murakumo's Blessing
subclass) without elemental infusions as well. I guess with MYS, you can switch to Scrolls of Frolicking Animals once you get the MYS infusion, since you'd otherwise be using normal attacks anyway.
Though, to put Mamizou's maximum damage in perspective, Satori is capable of doing about the same amount of damage Mamizou can by copying her spell cards, and all she has to do is strike weakness with them. She's actually a little bit stronger with Earth Spirits Palace support in the backrow. Granted, in practice Mamizou would do more damage specifically because Satori's on the field, but that's just to give an idea of Mamizou's personal level of power.
I'd name the whole "lose 1 counter for switching out" thing as an issue too, but Mamizou's best spell card for pure offensive purposes is usually Scrolls of Frolicking Animals so it's not that bad.
Mamizou does have a lot of potential if the RNG elements in her elemental rotation works out in your favor though, just...there's a lot of other good characters that are consistently as good, or better, at dealing damage.
That aside, is the wiki wrong about where to find Tokiko and Kokoro
? Haven't seen them at the mentioned floors but Im pretty sure I have explored everything that is available to me at those floors.
It is correct, you probably missed something. Did you collect all of the items you need for their events?
-
*VOI(D?) resistance things*
So, basically, those attacks are void elemental? (It's hard to tell cause there's no icon?) And the JP Wiki is the only way to check the void resistance?
Very interesting. You found all those algorithms from that Wiki?
-
No icon = VOI element. Technically, a more accurate (or rather, literal) translation would be "Non-elemental", but Void is legit and there is a bit of a space/dimension theme with non-elemental attacks in this game, or at least for the ones in the main game. Presently, there's only four damaging VOI attacks, Space Compression, Liberated Abilities, Super-Ego, and Disintegrating Breath. Of those, Space Compression (空間圧縮) is the most common one and the only one that was in the main game, where only The Second Sun and Ama no Murakumo's Right Arm used it (Murakumo's Right Arm had surprisingly low ATK though, you could actually take 0s from this IIRC). For Plus Disk bosses, only the
Serpent of Chaos (according to the JP wiki anyway)
and Kedama Goddess
can use it, with Kedama Goddess
using Time-Space Warp prior to it. Disintegrating Breath (分解のブレス) is only used by the Serpent of Chaos
, and is the attack it follows up Time-Space Warp with. Shadow Maribel uses Liberated Abilities, but only if you defeat Shadow Renko first
, while Shadow Koishi uses Super-Ego freely. Shadow Satori should be able to use them both though, as she uses all player spell cards. The mob Kedama Hermit and its Infinite Corridor counterpart can also use Space Compression. I haven't seen any other mobs use it, but that doesn't mean there aren't any capable of using it.
The JP wiki has some reports on VOI resistances, but they're only from damage tests and aren't 100% accurate or confirmed or anything. On this page, https://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/177.html, which explains formulas for damage calculation, the VOI resistance test listing goes
+20-30%: Kaguya
-33%: Nazrin, Eirin, Eiki
-40%: Komachi
-50% Parsee, Flandre, Koishi, Akyuu
-75% Maribel
Patchouli being weak to VOI is not specified here. The only other page that discusses VOI resistance is Kedama Goddess'
boss strategy page here, https://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/190.html#id_0d07c8d0. Here, it lists the damage taken by a level 600 character.
1m: Kaguya, Patchouli
500K: Everyone else
370K: Nazrin, Eiki, Eirin
250K: Komachi, Akyuu, Parsee, Flandre, Koishi
130K: Maribel
Which is somewhat accurate, although really loose. This is how much damage you would take if you had 0 DEF and nothing reducing its effects, if I'm right about the boss' ATK.
Damage = 800,000 * 0.66 = 528,000.
Kinda close to 500K...actually, this is more accurate than I thought it would be. Here's what Flandre should be taking based on the stats in your video if she's assumed to have -50% VOI resistance, ignoring the Gambler damage penalty.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (86,364 * 1.12 * 0.25) * 0.5 = 251,909 (Damage variance = 226,718-277,099)
She took 505,446 damage. Without Gambler, she would have taken 252,723 damage, which actually falls very close to the average damage that can be expected. So she should indeed have 200 VOI resistance. But Komachi definitely does not.
Damage = (800,000 * 0.66) - (61,001 * 1.2 * 0.25) * 0.5 = 254,849 (Damage variance = 229,364-280,333)
Substantially less than what she was actually taking. So it looks like the original damage calculations were more accurate about everyone's resistances, so maybe Kaguya (and Patchouli? she probably does have a VOI weakness, the original damage tests may not have found it) does only take +20% instead of +100% VOI damage. +100% does seem incredibly excessive.
For all the math calculations I do, the damage formula is known and covered in the first JP wiki page I linked (I leave out the part about row attacks because I haven't had to calculate any). Enemy stats, however, are a lot more obscure. The EN wiki has the main game's enemy stats listed in its bestiary page (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Bestiary), but Plus Disk's enemy stats are not confirmed outside of HP. Enemy spell card formulas are a similar story, the ones that were in the main game are known and compiled on the front page of each of these threads under "Spellcard Info". The ones in Plus Disk are not known, but thankfully there were not very many that were added to the game that aren't unique to a boss. Every boss uses attacks that were in the main game, so by checking those, it's possible to calculate where a boss' ATK/MAG is roughly at.
For Touhou bosses, the boss versions of the spell cards are listed in the Character spell cards, while the rest of the enemy spell cards are in the Enemies page. Some spells in the Enemies page actually went unused in the main game, specifically "Rainbow Wing" (as far as I know, nothing uses this yet, it's a scary looking 177% MAG multi-target MYS attack that ignores MND, this would be one of the strongest enemy spells in the game if it was used) and "Angelic Light" (this is used by Plus Disk's B3f bonus boss, Enforcer of Power
. Aya's Wind God's Fan also has data for an enemy version in the main game even though she wasn't a boss there. Her other spells don't have enemy versions either. Kinda weird, it's doubtful she was ever intended to be a boss for the main game.
-
I did some digging using Cheat Engine, and I believe that I found the location of the void resist value. If this address is correct (I'm fairly confident in it, but I don't do this often) then these should be the values.
Shikieiki = 150
Flandre = 200
Nazrin = 150
Kaguya = 80
Parsee = 200
Komachi = 160
Maribel = 400
Eirin = 140
Everyone else just has 100 as their value. Please note that this was taken from the last patch for the game before plus disc, so plus disc may have changed the values. I don't have the plus disc patch, so I cant check the values there, or the values of the plus disc characters.
-
where i can find golden tokugawa statue to craft
winner rags?
-
I did some digging using Cheat Engine, and I believe that I found the location of the void resist value. If this address is correct (I'm fairly confident in it, but I don't do this often) then these should be the values.
Shikieiki = 150
Flandre = 200
Nazrin = 150
Kaguya = 80
Parsee = 200
Komachi = 160
Maribel = 400
Eirin = 140
Everyone else just has 100 as their value. Please note that this was taken from the last patch for the game before plus disc, so plus disc may have changed the values. I don't have the plus disc patch, so I cant check the values there, or the values of the plus disc characters.
Ah, that's pretty convenient. So Cheat Engine is how you find this stuff? I tried it out a little after reading this to see if I could find anything but I don't really understand it well enough to make any use of it. Oh well.
So then,
Kaguya is +20%
Eirin is -30% (rounding)
Eiki and Nazrin are -33%
Komachi is -37.5%
Flandre and Parsee are -50%
Maribel is -75%
Looks pretty accurate. Wonder if Patchouli gains a VOI weakness in Plus Disk or if that was just an error.
where i can find golden tokugawa statue to craft winner rags?
The craft item drops from mobs somewhere between B8f-B10f, can't check which ones atm though.
-
The craft item drops from mobs somewhere between B8f-B10f, can't check which ones atm though.
Must be some sort of rare mob I haven't beaten yet. It's currently the only material I'm missing and I can't find what drops it on the Bestiary.
-
Nah, shouldn't be a rare enemy. I haven't found any in Plus Disk besides the Walking Unripe Fruit palette swap in B1f-B5f. I'll try to get on those floors by the end of today so that I can provide more accurate information regarding where the item drops. IIRC, B10f introduces the Abyss Naga (purple dragon), Archdevil (golden skinny humanoid with arms raised up), Blood-Sucking Rafflesia (exactly what it sounds like), and I think some kind of crystalline enemy I don't recall the name of. That might've been a B9f enemy instead. Do you have all of those enemies in the bestiary? I might also be mistaken about it being a basement floor drop, could be 27f too. There's some distinctions in craft materials dropped between 22-27f and B1-10f.
It's definitely in the game, I checked it because I was also missing that craft item, but idr what exactly drops it unfortunately.
-
i recall some rare mini golden orb appearing while exploring floors
i just never killed it because i was in a rush to get into the endgame,i will spam encounters and see what i get
-
Just in case somebody still cares about TL1... I finally did it. Enjoy^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixgowABy9Ks
-
Yup. Got all of those in the bestiary. None of them show it as a drop, unless of course it doesn't show unless you have the item, which is possible too...
-
i recall some rare mini golden orb appearing while exploring floors
i just never killed it because i was in a rush to get into the endgame,i will spam encounters and see what i get
Yeah, I think that was it. Didn't realize those were rare enemies (or their large counterpart for that matter). I've now encountered and defeated every enemy on B8f-B10f and 27f that I remember except for the small golden orbs, and nothing drops the craft item. The big one is at B10f and I think I remember seeing the small ones on B10f, but I've had about 400 encounters and haven't seen any of the small ones. I'm giving up on hunting them in favor of finishing up the remaining bosses and tackling Kedama Goddess
.
Unrelated, but the large golden orbs give enormous amounts of EXP, most fights involving them give about 2m EXP. They're kinda rare, but B10f mobs give good EXP by themselves too. B10f seems to be the best grinding spot, I gotta get back to the 100f on Infinite Corridor and compare enemy EXP to be certain of that though.
Just in case somebody still cares about TL1... I finally did it. Enjoy^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixgowABy9Ks
Hey, congratulations! What are you going to do now that you've accomplished that?
-
You mean these guys? https://i.imgur.com/SiHCDzF.png These guys can be found on B8F, I believe.
-
Huh, I thought there was a small version of the enemy translated as "Golden One", but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly...I didn't find that particular enemy you linked, so that might've been it.
Man, that's weird though, it looks like nothing actually drops that craft item then. That's inexplicable.
-
Then, I wouldn't worry about it. If you actually have it, then you can probably find it in the
Infinity Corridor
instead of just a drop.
-
Hey, congratulations! What are you going to do now that you've accomplished that?
Maybe I'll get back to TL2 and finish it... though I'm not very motivated to do so, what with the game still being incomplete etc. Maybe I'll wait until the current game is fully translate to restart it and at least re-experience the story I guess.
EDIT: By the way, is it possible to start a new game with all 56 chars, after you recruit Akyu
?
-
i actually freaked out when a big one popped on 10F
so nothing drops it,how odd
there is plenty of FOE unused enemies on the img files i wonder of those will be the 28-30F enemies
-
Then, I wouldn't worry about it. If you actually have it, then you can probably find it in the Infinity Corridor
instead of just a drop.
Nah, I didn't actually acquire it, I was just making a list of attainable items and wanted to make sure Winner's Rags were possible to acquire. Evidently, I remembered incorrectly about that, but the JP wiki seems to suggest that the craft item is actually possible to acquire, as it does list it as an available item...that might just be an assumption though.
EDIT: By the way, is it possible to start a new game with all 56 chars, after you recruit Akyu
?
Not yet, no.
there is plenty of FOE unused enemies on the img files i wonder of those will be the 28-30F enemies
Eh really? How do you view those?
EDIT: OK got Kedama Goddess
down, recording of the run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DEWN9o34hA
I cheated a bit by abusing Akyuu's invincibility, but with a multi-target healer and someone buffing their ATK/MAG it would be doable without the invincibility. Could also have someone subclass Healer so that there's two single-target healers instead. There's about two actions per character between Space Compression uses, so either way works. Boss gets 885 ATB per tick, which is about uh, 3,500 SPD or something like that. Much slower than Serpent of Chaos
, which gets 1,300 ATB per tick (about 7,900 SPD).
-
Nah, I didn't actually acquire it, I was just making a list of attainable items and wanted to make sure Winner's Rags were possible to acquire. Evidently, I remembered incorrectly about that, but the JP wiki seems to suggest that the craft item is actually possible to acquire, as it does list it as an available item...that might just be an assumption though.
Not yet, no.
Eh really? How do you view those?
EDIT: OK got Kedama Goddess
down, recording of the run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DEWN9o34hA
I cheated a bit by abusing Akyuu's invincibility, but with a multi-target healer and someone buffing their ATK/MAG it would be doable without the invincibility. Could also have someone subclass Healer so that there's two single-target healers instead. There's about two actions per character between Space Compression uses, so either way works. Boss gets 885 ATB per tick, which is about uh, 3,500 SPD or something like that. Much slower than Serpent of Chaos
, which gets 1,300 ATB per tick (about 7,900 SPD).
with a DXextractor you can see every image file of the game somehow i lack shadow kokoro and hollow orochi sprites
The attachment is just img3 extracted
-
Wow, awesome. btw it's normal to lack
Kokoro
sprites, they aren't in the game for some reason. Dunno if you looked or not, but I found Hollow Orochi's
sprites in the 4th img pack. That's all it contains except for Kedama Macho
(wtf).
Looking over everything, it looks like
There are "Heaven" versions of every Touhou boss to serve as counterparts to the "Abyss" ones in the Infinite Corridor.
The enemies labeled 28-30 at the beginning correspond to those floors. These numbers seem to mark where they first begin appearing.
The enemies labeled 40 correspond to B11f. 41 is B10f, 40 is B9f, and etc.
The enemies labeled 99 are for the Infinite Corridor. 99_10 are, I believe, unused. I've also never seen the meteor-looking enemy. It's a palette swap of an enemy labeled for 13f in the 1st img pack, but I've never seen that, and neither the JP nor EN wiki have any information about it. Unused enemy?
Curiously, Yamata no Orochi is labeled as a 25f enemy when it's fought on 26f. Maybe it was originally planned for 25f?
Looking at this, I'm missing a couple of enemies in the bestiary, might try hunting them sometime. Thanks for mentioning this, it was pretty interesting to look at.
-
-Quote-
What if i told you,i dont got img4,and never knew it existed?
did i missed a patch or something? i got only up to img3
It is only hollow orochi and his summons
on that file?
-
Oh wow I dunno what to say about that. img4 contains
Hollow Orochi, its 5 summons, and the 27f mob Kedama Macho.
Sounds like you're missing that for some reason, maybe you should check to make sure you have the latest patch or something.
--
Unrelated, I'm checking BGMs now and there's some unused ones here too, neat. Going to have to go through all of them later. Sound pretty good so far.
-
Oh wow I dunno what to say about that. img4 contains Hollow Orochi, its 5 summons, and the 27f mob Kedama Macho.
Sounds like you're missing that for some reason, maybe you should check to make sure you have the latest patch or something.
--
Unrelated, I'm checking BGMs now and there's some unused ones here too, neat. Going to have to go through all of them later. Sound pretty good so far.
oh right the gigantic kedama,trough it was a joke that he was so big you couldnt see the sprite
i will check out the patches in case i missed anything,how weird
EDIT:Yeah,apparently i was missing the "THL2P_1103patch" file,which contains img4
I never saw that file on the author page,i must be blind or something
EDIT2:Necronomicon is clearly superior to gran grimoire,correct?
-
Would depend on what you need, more HP or more MAG + affinity. I'd use Gran Grimoire over Necronomicon tbh, but I'm biased toward more damage like that.
-
I believe this was a feature on LoT1 but not sure if its on Lot2,can you level skill points several at once? like by 10 or 100 points instead of holding the key down and waiting for like 30 seconds to level one stat to 500?
-
I feel like someone said that was added as a feature in plus. I don't remember how though.
-
You press "A" to add 10 points and "S" to add 100 points. S doesn't work with library points, for good reasons.
-
You press "A" to add 10 points and "S" to add 100 points. S doesn't work with library points, for good reasons.
ah perfect that should make it way quicker,now to grind everyone to 550-600 and get the money i guess
-
Serpent of Chaos
beat. With some luck. lol. Apparently now the infinity corridor loops forever on floor 101, which is good cause I can farm points for the OP equipment without needing to farm Ironman's Headbands
.
-
Serpent of Chaos
beat. With some luck. lol. Apparently now the infinity corridor loops forever on floor 101, which is good cause I can farm points for the OP equipment without needing to farm Ironman's Headbands
.
explain on the loop part,i am curious 101>rest area>101>rest area ad infinitum?
-
That is correct.
Though I assume that more floors will be added.
That said, I'm unsure of what I should do to prepare for the next batch of content. Should I grind for more levels? Should I grind more Infinity Corridor? I guess more Quartz Charms would be nice. What do people think about the content that will be added?
-
I'd personally play something else and just wait for the next update, but if you want to prepare for the next update in advance, the levels will probably go to 2000+ looking at the Infinite Corridor's scaling method. It can be assumed that there'll be 10 floors per remaining Touhou boss since that accounts for acquiring all of the Awakening items. The level scaling currently has bosses gain +36 levels every 10 floors, so that would account for 49 * 36 = 1,764 levels, +600 from the 100f boss would be level 2,364. That's only a projection based on how things currently work, there might be changes in how the Infinite Corridor works in the next update.
As for equipment, that stuff at least has been fully explored through exploring the game's files, but the stats shown can't be taken to be finalized, as there are some discrepancies in what was originally found compared to what was implemented. Taking the Serpent of Chaos'
reward item for example, the stats were originally listed as HP/DEF+999%, ACC+99, DRK+300, but the final stats are fairly different, being HP/DEF+1080%, ATK/MAG+400%, ACC+66, DRK+300, DTH+150. As a smaller example, Scourge went from ATK+880% and DEF+440% to ATK+800% and DEF+400% (both versions have PHY+100).
Looking at the old list of items that were found in the files, the ones that haven't been implemented in an attainable fashion are as follows,
Magic Sword "Chaos"
ATK+1680% EVA+32
Gemini Lotus
MP TP+8 MAG MND SPD+720%
Demi-fiend's Reason
HP+880% ATK MAG DEF+560% DARK+240 DBF+100
Allagan Battleaxe
HP+640% ATK+480% DEF+880% MND+400% ACC+39 SHK DTH TRR+80
Winner's Rag
HP ATK+720% DEF SPD+540% ACC EVA+16 PSN PAR HVY SHK+32
Jewel of Judgement
MP+8 HP+999% MAG+800% TRR SIL DTH DBF+50
Mighty Hammer "Grond"
TP+8 HP+999% ATK+800% PSN PAR HVY SHK+50
"The One Ring"
HP MND+999% EVA+32 CLD WND NTR+144
Book of Babbles
DEF MND+640% All Elements+100 All Status+32
Excalibur II
ATK+780% HP DEF+500% EVA+24 All Elements+64
True Divine Sword "Ame-no-Murakumo"
All Stats+999%
Source of Dragon God's Power
All Stats+500% All Elements+100 All Status+50
First 4 are page 11, after Winner's Rags, which definitely aren't possible to acquire atm
are all the items following the Serpent of Chaos'
reward item. From this listing, it's probably safe to assume that equipment like Quartz Charm, Regalia, Medicine of Life, and Machine God Lucifer will remain very relevant even once everything is available. idk what else you might want to farm, I guess you can always just acquire whatever you intend to use while playing through the rest of what will be left of Plus Disk in the next update.
There's presently 6 achievements that aren't acquirable right now. I think these are the correct name/objective matches, but not 100% on it. Translating them roughly, they're
"Was it going easy on us?": Defeat the Dragon God
"Who's this geezer?": Defeat ***WINNER***
"Door of Summoning": Defeat a boss on 29f
"Door of Door of Summoning": Defeat all of the bosses on 29f
"Patrasche": Defeat a boss on 30f
"Didn't go easy this time": Defeat the True: Dragon God
29f is most likely where the Heaven counterparts of the Touhou bosses show up. There's one enemy listed for 30f in the image files, which is a palette swap of the Enforcer of Power, named the Embodiment of Purity (聖の体現者). I'd guess that's the 30f boss for the title, might require defeating all Heaven versions of the Touhou bosses to access.
If these titles grant the last 6 items on the list, then that likely means something needs to drop the Jewel of Judgement, which is most likely the Unicorn of Order, which is the counterpart to the Serpent of Chaos. The Jewel of Judgement is an eye from the Serpent that the Unicorn gouged out and stole. The Unicorn is also featured in Z Angband as an enemy.
There's also a lot of songs that aren't yet used in the game, enough that I can't figure out what they would all be used for. Specifically, there are 15
songs that seem to be unused. Who knows what could be done to fit all of those songs in, considering there's only 4
floors unimplemented yet. Can guess the purpose of some by names, but that's about it.
Can't think of anything else to say about what the next update might have in store.
-
Well, I reached 100F in the infinite corridor, no chance against the boss yet, also reached and explored the last floors up and down, I think there was another boss somewhere which I didnt beat and I think there might be a third one somewhere just because I never think of everything. I decided to lean back a bit and just raise every character of interest a bit so I wont be done too quickly again with the first plusdisc playtrough.
Also, you all are talking as if you didn't give up hope for the update to ever come yet, that's some impressive amount of optimism right there.
-
Admittedly, it also took a long time before we got TL2, but what worries me (and everybody else) is that 3peso basically disappeared from the internet. Not a single hint of activity on his twitter page or elsewhere (as far as I could find, at least) since the 23rd of March of this year. Considering how frequent his activity was before that date, I really don't know how reasonable it is to expect for him to come back at his point.
To be honest, I just wish somebody - anybody - would complete this game. I mean, most of the stuff (even down to the music, the art sprites etc.) is already there. However, it would feel bad if somebody else other than 3peso (or at least somebody appointed by him) finished it. Still, it feels bad not to be able to get all the character awakening items, or the two remaining uber classes
- or, most importantly, a level progression which actually goes over 700-something and gives a "raison d'etre" to the stat giga boosts and all the uber items you can loot in the corridor (I mean, compare it to TL1 where you needed lvl 3000+ to beat the hardest challenge in the game). So... I don't really know. It sure feels bad, either way.
-
to be fair,some items in LoT1 were broken if my memory serves right,the only two floors relevant for leveling were
27F for liliths and 30F for item farming
i am still salty that hibachi,serpent and winner items werent 100% drop chance
-
Also, you all are talking as if you didn't give up hope for the update to ever come yet, that's some impressive amount of optimism right there.
Well, can always just play other things in the meantime. If it never happens, then that's a unfortunate outcome, but I've actually seen other doujin game producers vanish for similar periods of time before so that in itself doesn't come off as too peculiar. I'll give it a full year (so March of 2018) before assuming it's not happening.
Though it is a little bothersome that, for all the Twitter usage 3peso had prior to their vanishing, suddenly ceasing that entirely for nearly 8 months does seem questionable. But considering what Twitter is, I don't see it as a bad thing of itself. Can always just e-mail them and see if they respond.
-
So I have a quick question.
I decided to hack in Jewels of Greater Awakening using Cheat Engine so that I could get all of the Awakening items, since I didn't want to have to choose between them (I've heard you can only get 7 or so as it currently stands). So I hacked in 999, and bought one for each character, but I noticed characters I hadn't recruited didn't get theirs in the shop.
I eventually saved and quit, because it got late. Fast forward to now, I booted up the game, and recruited Kokoro. I decided to get her Awakening item, so I went to Akyuu's... and all of my Jewels of Greater Awakening were gone!
So my question is; does anyone know what the Address is for the Jewel of Greater Awakening? I didn't think to write it down, so now I have no way to access it. And at this point, since I have NO Jewels, I'll be limited in my subclassing too. Can anyone help me, please?
-
I did some investigation on the JP community side of things and nope, nobody's heard a word. Even tried e-mailing apparently.
Anyone else can try, of course, but they're worried/clueless too.
-
does anyone know what the Address is for the Jewel of Greater Awakening? I didn't think to write it down, so now I have no way to access it. And at this point, since I have NO Jewels, I'll be limited in my subclassing too. Can anyone help me, please?
I went to check, luckily it uses a static address; THLabyrinth2Plus_out.exe+1631338
not sure if relevant, the address bar next to the entry simply says 02821338 (which should only be accurate if you didn't rename the .exe or rename it back I believe, but giving you that, I don't see an obvious way to add an address with just that, Im not used to sharing these sort of things.
I did some investigation on the JP community side of things and nope, nobody's heard a word. Even tried e-mailing apparently.
Thanks for that I was actually silently hoping someone would do this. Results were as expected but you never know, I like to think he simply got too absorbed with playing games or got twitter and gamedev-burnout and next year he will be like "haha, I never said which year I'll release the rest" :V
-
I went to check, luckily it uses a static address; THLabyrinth2Plus_out.exe+1631338
not sure if relevant, the address bar next to the entry simply says 02821338 (which should only be accurate if you didn't rename the .exe or rename it back I believe, but giving you that, I don't see an obvious way to add an address with just that, Im not used to sharing these sort of things.
It turns out it wasn't 02821338, but rather 02891338. But I was only able to find that out after fiddling around with that 1631338 number you gave me. Thank you so much, you really helped me out!
-
Anybody knows if the 7 Greater Awakening things you can get from the Endless Corridor can be reset/swapped or if, once you decided which chars to awaken, you're stuck with them?
-
Stuck with them.
-
That's unfortunate... now I'll have to think rly hard about who to awaken - and, given that the "endgame" basically is mostly about random encounters rather than bosses, I'm rethinking some of my earlier awakening choices.
-
After a long hiatus, i accidentally grinded to level average level 200 on floor 21 with instant death. After that, I crammed all of the money to give hina 639 magic ups, and then proceeded to steam roll the left over shadows, deformed bosses, and the 3 other special bosses. After almost 2 shotting upgraded Murakumo, I decided to finally get all the stones of awakening. I have 11, and this is where my problem is. I full cleared all the extra floors, and all of the main game floors with stones on it. Where is the last stone? Is it in the strangely in accessible part of floor 9 extra? Any help on where to search?
-
The stone locations are
5f
7-15f (1 on each floor)
11f (Postgame)
10f (Postgame)
You've definitely explored everywhere on those floors?
-
The stone locations are
5f
7-15f (1 on each floor)
11f (Postgame)
10f (Postgame)
You've definitely explored everywhere on those floors?
The jap wiki has detailed maps of each floor too, so if you still can't find it you can check those as well.
-
Thanks, I'll make sure to double check 10 and 11.
EDIT: after checking the Jp wiki, I found that the stone I needed was the one on floor 13. Thanks for the help!
-
Was thinking more of self sufficient refuction,in theory if a character can reach 100% damage reduction she can solo any enemy,right? as long as she can damage it
Sorry for replying so late, but I think that Absolute Defensive Line from the Guardian Subclass provides 30% damage reduction if there is only one character on the front line.
-
I have been blessed by the RNG,i am NOT supposed to be this boss at such a low level yet,correct?
i expected a machine god lucifer drop cmon,at least the crown looks pretty on the wearer
-
Hey, congratulations. Level looks about normal (Meiling has the same level rate as Reimu, so 578 Reimu, personally did it at Iku 540, equivalent to 558 Reimu), but that doesn't detract from the accomplishment. How did the run go (besides winning)?
The Massive Iron Crown of Chaos is something the Serpent of Chaos dropped in Z Angband, lol
-
Hey, congratulations. Level looks about normal (Meiling has the same level rate as Reimu, so 578 Reimu, personally did it at Iku 540, equivalent to 558 Reimu), but that doesn't detract from the accomplishment. How did the run go (besides winning)?
The Massive Iron Crown of Chaos is something the Serpent of Chaos dropped in Z Angband, lol
It basically went down to hoping flandre survived first turn and any of the four people that could survive the fight continue (meiling,remilia,byakuren,kasen)
the HP/MP drain was so annoying to get past,and any %HP shredding on my tanks spelt death sentence
-
Hm, I see. That sounds rough. Think you would have had an easier time by changing the strategy up a bit, but you've already beaten it so there isn't really any point in offering constructive criticism there. Have you done
Kedama Goddess
yet?
-
Hm, I see. That sounds rough. Think you would have had an easier time by changing the strategy up a bit, but you've already beaten it so there isn't really any point in offering constructive criticism there. Have you done Kedama Goddess
yet?
Actually i went to do it just to see how fast i would be wiped,first round i didnt lasted a single spatial rend,second round i beated it by sheer luck (again) :V
-
lol, nice. Yeah it's surprisingly easy given its challenge level of 760. Can't tell if that was just a misdirection or it really was supposed to be that rough to beat, but the developer didn't do it right.
-
Sounds like your runs went like mine
possible spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObH3e6IP6vs
lots of luck involved
-
Since everyone's sharing their runs, here's mine~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzKSnuR9klU
Guardian of the Crystals still has my vote for hardest boss in the game, that was amazingly brutal
-
Dont spoiler tag links please. It automatically punts me out of my browser to load youtube on my phone, and I was paused in thd middle of a 5 hour livestream so I have to hunt for that place again with a tiny acrollbar and and ewww.
Im posting in regards to the optimism gone 9 months thing though.... Wasnt 9peso gone for about as long prior to +s release?
Regardless, you should have seen how long I was hoping for phantasy star online 2 west. And yes I know you could play on the other servers. I in fact WAS playing on jpn. But quit after west's announcement because I didnt want to be tempted to invest in jpn and not want to transfer over to west when it released. But it never did. Stupid sega.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/dfUG3d3.jpg)
-
Hey, I've got a question, guys. I've been trying to get the Plus Disk to work, but for some reason, I can't get it to actually launch. The window pops up very briefly, then immediately closes. I'm not having this issue with the base game, but I'd really like to try and get the Plus Disk to work. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
-
Having some technical issues - for some reason, the sound won't play at all on the Plus Disk executable, though it does play on the normal one. Any tips?
Also, is there some way to lock the FPS to 60? I have a 144Hz monitor, and it appears to be using VSync for its framerate limiting, so the game goes *real* fast. Help would be appreciated.
-
They drastically changed sound balance in Plus Disk; you just need to go into the plus disk options and turn sound waaaaaaaaaaaaaay up.
-
Thanks, that worked.
Anything for the framerate?
-
Changing your monitors refresh rate to 60 fixes that
-
Does anybody know what "Risky Floors" are, in the Eternal Corridor?
-
The enemy level increases (max of 50% increase), but you receive a bonus to money/EXP earned from fighting them (up to 100%).
-
Well at least that explains why I was brutally murdered lol.
On another note, I tried moving the Ame-No-Murakumo subclass from Suwako (who I removed from party altogether) to Kokoro, and it works like a charm - Kokoro's fairly high mixed offenses make great use of both Slash and Start of Heavenly Demise, and the MP regen allows her to spam her NTR+WND AoE way more easily, too.
As a side note, it was fun to see Kokoro "singled out" in the dialogue vs the PD final boss, with her looking almost like "... Wha?"
-
Yeah, kinda figured you might remove Suwako. How is Kokoro though? Seems like her mask buffs might put her damage to be decent, but her multi-target spell cards seem kinda weak, and lots of characters have decent damage.
Actually, might as well just ask, how has your Plus Disk playthrough been going in general?
-
Is it just me, or is Kogasa's MP recovery rate bugged in Plus Disk 1.103?
-
Is it just me, or is Kogasa's MP recovery rate bugged in Plus Disk 1.103?
Yes it is, it has been bugged for a while since there haven't been any updates.
-
Yeah, kinda figured you might remove Suwako. How is Kokoro though? Seems like her mask buffs might put her damage to be decent, but her multi-target spell cards seem kinda weak, and lots of characters have decent damage.
Actually, might as well just ask, how has your Plus Disk playthrough been going in general?
Well let's see... first of all, a couple preliminary words:
Each of these characters has been gemmed to 10X in all stats and has been library-trained based on the cost (i.e. characters with lower library costs, like Reimu, have been trained proportionally more than others, like Miko). Now, onto the team itself:
Line 1: Reimu [Strat] / Sanae [Sorc] / Nitori [Tran] / Kanako [Sorc]
Line 2: Renko [Strat] / Kokoro [Holy B.] / Miko [Tran] / Maribel [Sorc]
Line 3: Satori [Strat] / Utsuho [Sorc] / Koishi [Sorc] / Orin [Warr]
I've not used Line 1 a lot, tbh, except against Cold-weak bosses and as replacements for Line 2 (ex: when I swap out Miko for Reimu due to Maribel having to go offensive)
Line 2 is my main boss-oriented lineup. Renko provides massive buffs, while Maribel heals with Novice Border. Kokoro is... quite damn powerful, actually. Between the Mask's buff (+25% ATK and MAG, usually) and 5X Fighting Spirit, she hits for a significant amount of damage. Holy Blessing is actually a toss-up choice - it's just that, with her Conc only giving 2 MP, I appreciate the extra mana regen on her than on other chars. Miko is devastating - even if she mostly has only SPI damage, her ability to debuff ALL stats upon hitting is invaluable against almost every boss (very few bosses are fully resistant to debuffing), and she can deal absurd amounts of damage. Oh, and if the boss buffs up or is DRK weak, Maribel can also deliver solid punishment with her SHK-inducing attack and her near-infinite mana pool.
Line 3 is my main choice for clearing randoms. Orin's Blaze Wheel is absurdly powerful, as are most of Utsuho's attacks. Satori's Brain Fingerprint isn't very powerful in comparison, but it always hits - and, generally, you can just have her use one of Utsuho's AoE FIR attacks or Koishi's Embers of Love for solid damage (thanks to Utsuho's Blaze ability). Finally, Koishi helps with Super-Ego's VOI unresistable dmg, as well as Embers of Love being a quite damn strong single-target attack. Her evasion is not used very often (even if I currently have her at over 150 EVA with Avoid Ring, I'll eventually give her non-EVA gear and Tokugawa Statue because the stat difference is just too great).
Of all the lineups, I'd say Line 3 is the one which surprised me the most. I was hopeful about the +48% kinship boost (most kinship boosts stop at around 30% max, except T9 which however has much lower base stats), but the actual results went beyond my expectations. Orin and Utsuho, in particular, are so powerful with their FIR attacks that they can just steamroll through FIR-resistant enemies of similar level (not bosses, obviously) with little difficulty.
-----------------------------------
As for my PD experience in general, well... my main recommendation is: get those 10X gems on every stat ASAP. I dunno just how impactful they are, but before getting them I couldn't even beat the Oni trio at the recommended level. After getting those (same level, mind you, as Ame-no-Murakumo gives no xp or gold), the entire game became a breeze - even the original postgame content, since I finally started to overcome those titanic defenses. Tbh, the only boss which gave me a bit of a pause is Futo - but since she's PHY weak, it's mostly about firing off 2-3 overheated Megawatt Guns with Nitori before she overwhelms you, so after a few tries I did her.
Naturally, unlike in TL1, I'm much less convinced about my endgame choices than before. So far, I've awakened only Maribel (Vision Sharing is overpowered, you gotta try it) and Miko (not as overpowered, but not having to depend on being fully healed to debuff the boss's stats is kinda important). I'll certainly awaken Kokoro and Renko, too (the latter more for the extra status protection than for Starting Point of Assault), but I dunno about the rest.
In fact, I am even considering scrapping some of the slots - especially Line 1. As I mentioned before, you rarely do more than 1, maybe 2 random encounters per Corridor floor - sometimes you have none at all. And the 7-star remnants you get are more than enough to keep your TP topped off with just one line-up, if it even comes down to it (keep in mind that, with Gems + Jewels + TP boost + Tokugawa Statue you have +42 TP on top of whatever TP you already had). Which makes me wonder if I should rather replace Reimu and co. (not Nitori, ofc, since any char with Maintenance/Prince OOPART in this game is broken^^).
So far, I've had some experience with the Yukari family (not bad, but not very useful vs bosses, and I already have plenty of PHY dmg, which is the main fort? of this group), Iku + Tenshi (again, not bad, but badly needs setupping, and I have plenty of SPI and debuffing as it is), and T9 (which again isn't bad but not too good for boss battles from my experience). Ofc, as I mentioned before, Reimu Sanae and Kanako are far from useless (especially for CLD and SPI damage), so I may end up just keeping them, but the urge to try and experiment a bit is great (MAlice? Rinnosuke? Youmu + Yuyuko? Scarlet Mansion (or at least 3 of them)? Eientei? The Onis? Maybe good ol' DRK nuking with Kogasa + Parsee? Some of the new chars I've not tried yet, such as Futo or Akyuu?)
-
Ah, I see, so you're stacking Kokoro's Fighting Spirit to get her to deal good damage. Hm, would certainly get big numbers, but I wonder if the time efficiency is worth it. For PHY weak bosses it would naturally be her best option regardless, but otherwise, not sure that would be worthwhile. Miko though, yeah, she's pretty great, good damage and debuffs alongside them. Pretty similar to Reisen and her Discarder with Tradition of Just Rewards, just weaker debuff potential in exchange for more damage + SPI element. Can't buff herself (which is one of Reisen's biggest advantages as an attacker, Grand Patriot's Elixir is ridiculous), but better base stats all around.
Koishi's EVA reliance did seem a little gimmicky, probably would also focus on being a straight-up attacker than emphasize her EVA skills too. One thing that really stands out about Koishi to me is her MYS spell card that's boosted by TRR/SIL. Decent number of characters can inflict both status effects with one spell card, like Parsee and Reisen. At max power its damage should be pretty close to what Flandre or Marisa could output. Besides that, Earthly Spirits Palace does seem like a pretty strong party. Got Satori for +24% weakness damage and Utsuho for a further +30% FIR damage, with all of them being able to use FIR spell cards effectively. Utsuho in particular looks like the biggest damage dealer in that area to me, since she's got Sheer Force, Fighting Spirit, Overheating, and her Awakening's High Blazing for truly absurd boosts to her damage output every turn. Probably safe to say she's by far the best FIR damage dealer in the game, seems like Flandre would be the only competition.
Do wanna comment that while Team (9) have low base stats, due to their leveling rates and stat gems, they actually end up with much higher base stats than you might expect. Cirno and Rumia for example are about top 10 in terms of MAG stats, not bad at all.
I think it's pretty safe to say that Futo was the hardest boss in the story mode, that fight was pretty mean. The Shadow bosses were on the whole disappointingly easy, think the problem was that since Plus Disk focused on faster paced fights with higher damage on both sides, and a boss fight with multiple targets would naturally have less HP than a boss fight with one target, the result was that the bosses were generally too fragile, to a point where it wasn't hard to defeat at least one target before it could act. Mamizou, Futo, and Miko were a lot more difficult (relatively speaking) than the Shadow bosses because of that, imo anyway. After a while I just stopped recording the regular Shadow fights because they were too easy only to find out the Abyss bosses were even easier.
What about Iku + Tenshi felt like they needed too much setting up? Never had that issue with them. Using Iku to attack instead of Tenshi did feel a little inconvenient at times, but that was only because I had to wait a turn before attacking since Iku is also the best single target ATK/MAG buffer. Tenshi's just a straight-up attacker right out of the gate. Can see needing Iku out for Tenshi to be able to do damage as a problem, but that plus ATK buffs is all she needs to dish out top level damage, and almost every character needs another character to buff them. Tenshi's also pretty much the best NTR attacker in the game, not like she's limited to SPI (SPI is a really inundated element though, Murakumo's Blessing alone makes any character capable of being a high level SPI attacker).
The Hisouten duo aside, I'd definitely recommend trying out Akyuu, top tier support character post-Awakening imo. Can put all of her level bonuses in SPD and still survive weaker multi-target attacks without relying on her resurrection skill, while providing that 16% weakness damage boost and a 50% Boost effect to all party members with her Awakening spell card. Her massive MP pool is enough to let her spam World-Shaking Military Rule if you want to maintain buffs after Renko's Charge.
With that all covered...how far are you into Plus Disk's postgame and Infinite Corridor?
-
Ah, I see, so you're stacking Kokoro's Fighting Spirit to get her to deal good damage. Hm, would certainly get big numbers, but I wonder if the time efficiency is worth it. For PHY weak bosses it would naturally be her best option regardless, but otherwise, not sure that would be worthwhile. Miko though, yeah, she's pretty great, good damage and debuffs alongside them. Pretty similar to Reisen and her Discarder with Tradition of Just Rewards, just weaker debuff potential in exchange for more damage + SPI element. Can't buff herself (which is one of Reisen's biggest advantages as an attacker, Grand Patriot's Elixir is ridiculous), but better base stats all around.
I think it depends on the fighting style. Personally, I favor bulky attackers over glass nukes - nothing gives me a better feeling than seeing, say, In Laquetti going ballistic on my team and everybody surviving, repeatedly^^ In this sense, Kokoro definitely fills the bill for me. Also, it's worth noting that, much like Miko, Kokoro can also debuff - with ANY attack, as long as she has her mask on.
As for Miko herself, while it's true that she can't buff herself, unlike Reisen, it's also true that she doesn't need two other specific party members to reach astronomical numbers. She only need a buffer, and both Renko + Maribel (buff, healing, Vision Sharing) and Sanae (buff, healing, SPI boost) are absolutely perfect for this purpose. While I don't dislike Eientei, I always found them kinda... frail. Especially Kaguya. Miko instead is incredibly bulky, and that makes the difference (really, I may have said it before, but 2X Item abilities are busted).
Koishi's EVA reliance did seem a little gimmicky, probably would also focus on being a straight-up attacker than emphasize her EVA skills too. One thing that really stands out about Koishi to me is her MYS spell card that's boosted by TRR/SIL. Decent number of characters can inflict both status effects with one spell card, like Parsee and Reisen. At max power its damage should be pretty close to what Flandre or Marisa could output. Besides that, Earthly Spirits Palace does seem like a pretty strong party. Got Satori for +24% weakness damage and Utsuho for a further +30% FIR damage, with all of them being able to use FIR spell cards effectively. Utsuho in particular looks like the biggest damage dealer in that area to me, since she's got Sheer Force, Fighting Spirit, Overheating, and her Awakening's High Blazing for truly absurd boosts to her damage output every turn. Probably safe to say she's by far the best FIR damage dealer in the game, seems like Flandre would be the only competition.
You're right about Utsuho, her Fire attacks are absolutely brutal. There are some Shadow bosses (Idr which ones, actually) where I just punched through with Earth Palace team, switching in the Sealing Club + Kokoro and Miko only once battle was already won. I still don't know if I want to awaken Utsuho, though, because her new abilities only take effect if she's staying around for several turns, which is not her role in this team. I'd rather awaken Orin, since multiple Extra Attack activations give her a much needed power boost.
Do wanna comment that while Team ⑨ have low base stats, due to their leveling rates and stat gems, they actually end up with much higher base stats than you might expect. Cirno and Rumia for example are about top 10 in terms of MAG stats, not bad at all.
You gotta keep in mind though that, when you down level characters for meeting challenge level, those numbers may no longer be accurate. Also, there's the sad fact that I only have 3 slots potentially open on my team as it (no way in hell I'm removing Nitori, Miko, or Kokoro), and I'm not sure Team 9 would be as good if I include only 3 of them.
I think it's pretty safe to say that Futo was the hardest boss in the story mode, that fight was pretty mean. The Shadow bosses were on the whole disappointingly easy, think the problem was that since Plus Disk focused on faster paced fights with higher damage on both sides, and a boss fight with multiple targets would naturally have less HP than a boss fight with one target, the result was that the bosses were generally too fragile, to a point where it wasn't hard to defeat at least one target before it could act. Mamizou, Futo, and Miko were a lot more difficult (relatively speaking) than the Shadow bosses because of that, imo anyway. After a while I just stopped recording the regular Shadow fights because they were too easy only to find out the Abyss bosses were even easier.
Tbh I didn't have major issues with Mamizou, she has a mountain of HP but she doesn't hit very hard. Miko I'm not even sure lol, I just tunnelvision-ed her fight and suddenly she was dead :-) (mind you, these fights were all done at challenge level but with 40-80 lvls of downgrading, depending on the char - also, for Miko, I had lesser Endless Corridor items like Rhododendron Dress, Uruncel Blade etc. on everybody).
What about Iku + Tenshi felt like they needed too much setting up? Never had that issue with them. Using Iku to attack instead of Tenshi did feel a little inconvenient at times, but that was only because I had to wait a turn before attacking since Iku is also the best single target ATK/MAG buffer. Tenshi's just a straight-up attacker right out of the gate. Can see needing Iku out for Tenshi to be able to do damage as a problem, but that plus ATK buffs is all she needs to dish out top level damage, and almost every character needs another character to buff them. Tenshi's also pretty much the best NTR attacker in the game, not like she's limited to SPI (SPI is a really inundated element though, Murakumo's Blessing alone makes any character capable of being a high level SPI attacker).
I should probably give Tenshi and Iku a second chance, though I wonder because Tenshi really needs to be Awakened and, if I awaken Renko, Maribel, Miko, and Kokoro I only have 3 gems left I can use (1 I'd like to use on Orin, so let's say 2 left). Also, I'm not sure how dual element abilities work, but Kokoro can cause NTR + WND damage so it's not like I desperately need NTR. But yeah I can see it's a possibility I should consider.
The Hisouten duo aside, I'd definitely recommend trying out Akyuu, top tier support character post-Awakening imo. Can put all of her level bonuses in SPD and still survive weaker multi-target attacks without relying on her resurrection skill, while providing that 16% weakness damage boost and a 50% Boost effect to all party members with her Awakening spell card. Her massive MP pool is enough to let her spam World-Shaking Military Rule if you want to maintain buffs after Renko's Charge.
I'm... not really a fan of Akyuu tbh. Her stats don't look especially good pre-Concentration, and while her skills are kinda good, they do require intimate knowledge of the boss's rotation to be effective. The boost is nice, but... I dunno, I should test her, but her stats do look underwhelming even factoring in her low library cost. As for her massive MP pool, remember that the Ame-no-Murakumo user already has nearly infinite MP because of the MP draining ability (and Kokoro can replenish extremely fast if needed, thanks to quick Concentrations + MP drain).
With that all covered...how far are you into Plus Disk's postgame and Infinite Corridor?
I've got 44 fragments, still 27F to clear and I'm on 21F in the Corridor. I'm not in a hurry to finish it all because, sadly, not much is left in terms of content - heck, most of the farming time is spent looking for Corridor drops, because in terms of levelling, if I wanted I could get to 600+ in just a couple hours of 27F farming^^ Compared to TL1 post-disc xp farming, it feels like a walk in the park. I still wish for an expansion, though, because as it is you don't really get to use most of your skill points (unless you get tons of Training Manuals), and being limited with Awakening Gems really sucks (I considered getting them with Cheat Engine but again... what am I beating with them, atm?^^)
-
I think it depends on the fighting style. Personally, I favor bulky attackers over glass nukes - nothing gives me a better feeling than seeing, say, In Laquetti going ballistic on my team and everybody surviving, repeatedly^^ In this sense, Kokoro definitely fills the bill for me. Also, it's worth noting that, much like Miko, Kokoro can also debuff - with ANY attack, as long as she has her mask on.
Ah no I do agree about the bulky attacker thing, going with that direction as well, but like, bulky attackers can still blitz things. Like, using In Laquetti for example, I defeated it in 3 of its actions using Monk Tenshi as the sole attacker, at challenge level, just spamming Puncturing Thrust. Did record the run (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spjTGHxZ03g), but the gameplay was a little bit sloppy because I didn't do a practice run beforehand, so it was my actual first run. Strategy could have definitely be polished a bit, stuff like max MND Iku and Herbalist Akyuu were poor ideas (should have done max HP and Murakumo's Blessing here). This is just as much an example of how fast fights can be as it is to how little Tenshi needs setup.
But yeah, Kokoro can debuff a couple stats while dealing decent damage. She's certainly a balanced character, just doesn't seem to do anything outstanding.
As for Miko herself, while it's true that she can't buff herself, unlike Reisen, it's also true that she doesn't need two other specific party members to reach astronomical numbers. She only need a buffer, and both Renko + Maribel (buff, healing, Vision Sharing) and Sanae (buff, healing, SPI boost) are absolutely perfect for this purpose. While I don't dislike Eientei, I always found them kinda... frail. Especially Kaguya. Miko instead is incredibly bulky, and that makes the difference (really, I may have said it before, but 2X Item abilities are busted).
Well, I wouldn't discount Reisen's damage when she has Final Blow for a 32% boost (which she supports herself with using Lunatic Red Eyes), but yeah, Miko is generally stronger and always bulkier. Mostly just comparing the two for being capable of dealing good damage and debuffing at the same time. I'm using both personally. Between the two, Reisen has been more useful, but mainly for her debilitating effects like her MND debuffs and ability to inflict a high success rate multi-target SHK.
You gotta keep in mind though that, when you down level characters for meeting challenge level, those numbers may no longer be accurate. Also, there's the sad fact that I only have 3 slots potentially open on my team as it (no way in hell I'm removing Nitori, Miko, or Kokoro), and I'm not sure Team 9 would be as good if I include only 3 of them.
Well, they're accurate if you level down characters so that they all have the same amount of EXP invested, but if you're only leveling down the characters with high levels, then yeah, it's not accurate. I just wanted to point out that they actually have pretty high stats if the EXP investment is even. I've personally been making sure that everyone has the same EXP investment while matching challenge levels, so the different base stat/level rates are always "fair". Bosses are already easy enough without overleveling the characters that level slowly.
Tbh I didn't have major issues with Mamizou, she has a mountain of HP but she doesn't hit very hard. Miko I'm not even sure lol, I just tunnelvision-ed her fight and suddenly she was dead :-) (mind you, these fights were all done at challenge level but with 40-80 lvls of downgrading, depending on the char - also, for Miko, I had lesser Endless Corridor items like Rhododendron Dress, Uruncel Blade etc. on everybody).
Mamizou's Razor Wind (79% MAG - 14% T.DEF - 14% T.MND) and Leaf Cutting Dance (96% MAG - 20% T.DEF - 20% T.MND) spell cards did hit pretty hard, but she didn't use them much and otherwise yeah her spell cards were pretty low damage. Mamizou was mostly just that she had enough HP to put up a fight (along with a strong self-heal), compared to the previous fights that can be breezed with ease. Same deal with Miko, she's not some weakling boss that goes down in ~5 turns like most Shadow fights were. Futo doesn't really deserve to be compared with Mamizou and Miko, she was an actually reasonably difficult fight.
I should probably give Tenshi and Iku a second chance, though I wonder because Tenshi really needs to be Awakened and, if I awaken Renko, Maribel, Miko, and Kokoro I only have 3 gems left I can use (1 I'd like to use on Orin, so let's say 2 left). Also, I'm not sure how dual element abilities work, but Kokoro can cause NTR + WND damage so it's not like I desperately need NTR. But yeah I can see it's a possibility I should consider.
Well, if you're iffy about using Tenshi, then I dunno about Awakening her, since she just gets extra HP (a lot of HP, admittedly, about a 20% increase or so) and some damage, as opposed to a super versatile skill like Sanae's MP restoration. Still probably one of the better Awakenings you could go for though. Her default +33% DEF/MND is an instant 11% increase in ATK, which is about 8% more damage with max ATK buffs already in play. Cap out her DEF/MND at 86% and she's looking at 34% more ATK, or about 27% more damage. And if you're hitting weakness, she's getting 4% more ATK (and every other stat) every turn, capping at 28%. After 5 turns she's looking at 22% more overall stats, which is about 17% more damage (ignoring Courageous Sword). It's not quite Fighting Spirit (especially on defense), but stacking the two skills gets great results on a character that already had a high level of damage output.
Probably says a lot about Tenshi's base damage output when her Awakening is probably adding about 25-30% more damage on average and I'm downplaying it as not that great.
Ah yeah, and naturally, Tenshi does way more damage than Kokoro does with her WND + NTR spell, especially for single target (which is most important for exploiting weaknesses).
I'm... not really a fan of Akyuu tbh. Her stats don't look especially good pre-Concentration, and while her skills are kinda good, they do require intimate knowledge of the boss's rotation to be effective. The boost is nice, but... I dunno, I should test her, but her stats do look underwhelming even factoring in her low library cost. As for her massive MP pool, remember that the Ame-no-Murakumo user already has nearly infinite MP because of the MP draining ability (and Kokoro can replenish extremely fast if needed, thanks to quick Concentrations + MP drain).
Akyuu's stats are pretty usable, enough that she isn't dying from every hit and needing to resurrect (only had her resurrect a couple times in all of my runs actually), and her maxed out SPD ensures she's acting every couple ticks. Her Awakening spell card is 6000 delay and appears to be glitched to randomly (or not randomly, hard to tell how exactly it works) apply 1-hit invincibility to characters in addition to the 50% Boost, which further helps her durability (not that she needs it). Since the 50% Boost works like Herbalist's and lasts 2 turns, a single use of it basically doubles the damage of your 1-2 attackers, plus the 16% weakness bonus Akyuu has by default. Fair to point out that Murakumo's Blessing is restoring 6 MP per turn, but unlike Kokoro (or any other character), Akyuu is throwing around 50% Boosts to the whole party and can survive fatal attacks (90% of the time) with no loss to ATB (which distinguishes herself from Guts users and Mokou), so she can go max SPD even when in the leftmost slot with minimal impact on her survivability, so she's able to buff at a faster pace than any other character. Akyuu's also got 200 VOI resistance but that doesn't come into play too much.
Can't really say I've actually used her 1-hit Invincibility spell card much, only on Serpent of Chaos
and Kedama Goddess
, and only as precautions, but she doesn't really need to use that to be an amazing character.
I've got 44 fragments, still 27F to clear and I'm on 21F in the Corridor. I'm not in a hurry to finish it all because, sadly, not much is left in terms of content - heck, most of the farming time is spent looking for Corridor drops, because in terms of levelling, if I wanted I could get to 600+ in just a couple hours of 27F farming^^ Compared to TL1 post-disc xp farming, it feels like a walk in the park. I still wish for an expansion, though, because as it is you don't really get to use most of your skill points (unless you get tons of Training Manuals), and being limited with Awakening Gems really sucks (I considered getting them with Cheat Engine but again... what am I beating with them, atm?^^)
Ah, yeah, at that point the big fights you have left are Hollow Orochi, Serpent of Chaos, and Kedama Goddess
, plenty of smaller boss fights but nothing exceptional otherwise. Can certainly see where you're coming from with that feeling. Unfortunate that the next update is still in limbo with not even a message saying that it's being worked on. Outside of doing Kedama Goddess
to demonstrate it's easy to beat even in the low 500s, I basically stopped playing, mostly just check math stuff and miscellaneous things like that now. Really wanna see that next update...but anyway, sounds like you're best off just playing at your own pace then.
-
I actually found Plus Disc to be a decent difficulty, although its pretty easy to cheat yourself out of it mostly be accident. Infinite Corridor items can be obtained fairly early on in the content, yet are stronger then almost anything you can find until after beating its final boss. Moreover, the encounters give you so much experience that without an encounter reuction skill you'll almost always overlevel every boss you face. My first run through, with a Yakumo team, breezed through everything besides Futo[And even she wasn't nearly as bad as, say, the Great "C" was]. My second run, though, used the SDM team and had Rumia with Ability to Manipulate Darkness on 24/7. That run was much more fun, and in more then a just "Jeez, I just killed this boss before it could deal more then a paltry amount of damage" way.
Akyuu is mostly notorious for doing truly obscene damage with Start of Heavenly Demise. Her tiny library cost means her stats are actually pretty decent and she also offers pretty great utility. She actually reminds me of a more extreme Maribel, with even weirder/stronger abilities.
-
I don't know, for my Plus Disk playthrough I kept levels at challenge level and didn't use Infinite Corridor equipment until clearing Plus Disk's main story, and it still felt pretty easy overall.
And wow, Akyuu's damage is pretty good, getting 47m on Start of Heavenly Demise backed by Super Incantation on 1f mobs compared to Iku's 11m without a Boost effect. Never did get around to testing it until now, should've checked so much sooner than this. Mathing it out on a 1m MND target, Akyuu still does over three times as much damage in one shot as Iku would without a Boost effect. This is with the same equipment/ library levels and equal EXP investment. Not as impressive considering she could give Iku a 50% Boost and then Iku would be doing similar amounts of damage in two turns, but Akyuu is still really good in terms of damage, can't overlook that.
-
@LonelyGaruga: Your Tenshi damage vs In Laquetti was kinda impressive, but my main concern about it is that you had to use basically 3 non attacking slots to reach that sort of output. In comparison, I could do similar amounts of damage simply by attacking with Maribel, Miko, and Kokoro - all while keeping the boss constantly debuffed. Furthermore, my lineup recovers much more easily, I think, from 1 hp and 0 mana attacks, thanks to Mari's MP regen and Kokoro's MP drain.
Overall, I felt that the "all-in" approach of putting everything on just one attacker was not as desirable or necessary as in pre PD content. Though it certainly is still viable
-
Personally I also favored more putting everything in one attacker, but I think that may also depend on team composition. I used Nitori as my main attacker and Aya, Iku and Minoriko for support with Mokou tanking. Mainly because past a certain point, Nitori did so much damage she completed blew the rest of my attackers (Youmu, Momiji, Yuyuko and Yuuka) out of the water, there simply wasn't much of a reason to use them when Nitori could hit harder and faster than most of them, plus with Iku/Aya it's easier to focus on buffing a single character's offenses (it also allowed me to just dump all the OP equipment on Nitori instead of spreading them out).
Renko, Kokoro, Miko and Maribel all allow you to buff up your whole frontline's stats at once so making the best use of it by having a bunch of attackers sounds nice too.
On a different note, I was messing around with some awakening skills and it seems like Marisa's Hakkoro Charge mode is bugged, it only generates stacks when she takes a turn in the front and not while she is in the back. Parsee's Green Eyed Monster also seems to be bugged since the strength/infliction rate of her status effects seems to remain the same.
-
@LonelyGaruga: Your Tenshi damage vs In Laquetti was kinda impressive, but my main concern about it is that you had to use basically 3 non attacking slots to reach that sort of output. In comparison, I could do similar amounts of damage simply by attacking with Maribel, Miko, and Kokoro - all while keeping the boss constantly debuffed. Furthermore, my lineup recovers much more easily, I think, from 1 hp and 0 mana attacks, thanks to Mari's MP regen and Kokoro's MP drain.
Overall, I felt that the "all-in" approach of putting everything on just one attacker was not as desirable or necessary as in pre PD content. Though it certainly is still viable
Well, there was no reason I couldn't use Iku to attack (and in hindsight, I would have, because the reason I did not was because I thought its status/debuff retaliation would actually matter, but it went down far too easily), but the primary reason I go with one attacker is because I've found that easiest and most effective in most scenarios. Sometimes I switch for a two attacker pattern though (generally Tenshi + Iku). Dunno how effective attacking with three characters with different elements would be on a boss that likely resists at least one of them (how many turns did it take to beat In Laquetti, if you remember?), but doing similar amounts of damage with three characters compared to one using a subclass spell doesn't sound all thaaat great. Like, yeah, I didn't debuff any, but that's because I've found most Plus Disk bosses just aren't worth debuffing in the first place (although in In Laquetti's case, I was specifically avoiding debuffing it, otherwise I'd have had Iku debuff its DEF).
HP to 1 stuff is as easy as switching in Rumia for Demarcation, but MP to 0 wasn't as easy to deal with until Sanae's Awakening, which is +4-5 MP every turn she's acting, so MP to 0 can almost be ignored. Pulled that on the Serpent of Chaos run I did (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzKSnuR9klU). Although, the MP to 0 attack in the In Laquetti fight only cost me 1 turn of attacking with Tenshi, so not really that big a deal. But anyway, I was just making the point that Tenshi takes bosses down quickly, without the need to spend her turns building up damage boosts in order to do so.
Do see what you're pulling with the Renko/Kokoro/Miko/Maribel lineup though, with Kokoro's mask buffs, Miko's buff boosts, and Maribel's Vision Sharing, you've got three characters that buff everyone on the field, with Renko being the strongest multi-target buffer as well, plus the capacity to inflict that +25% damage boosting effect from her Awakening. Having the three of them as attackers seems fine, although it sounds like that isn't enough to top a single maxed out character.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DACVGRcAk0Q This is my fight against In Laquetti - though Nitori apparently did most of the damage, Kokoro and Miko were instrumental in neutralizing the boss from the getgo. Also note that these numbers are with minimal buffs (I had next to no DBF defenses), they would be significantly higher against non-debuffing enemies.
-
I see, that went pretty well. In terms of speed, my run was 40 ticks while your run was 50 ticks up until the point that Nitori missed (actual kill time was 58 ticks). Might be off by 1-2 ticks due to the SPD debuffs, they make counting ticks a little harder.
It's certainly an effective gameplay plan, but I can't really help but feel that Nitori with Murakumo's Blessing could have cleared it a lot faster and easier than that strategy did, through sheer damage output. It would also have saved you the trouble of having to deal with ATK/MAG/SPD debuffs. Still, it breezed through the fight, as can be expected from most Plus Disk bosses.
Any plans to record other fights? Might be interesting to compare notes on them, though I'd imagine it might be troublesome to do so if you weren't already planning on doing that.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fogvHd83IHY
Here is the recording of my fight vs Shadow Yukari. Here I don't have to deal with debuffs, so you can see the Renko/Miko/Kokoro/Maribel lineup in action as it normally is^^ (also, note that I was quite a few levels behind on challenge level)
EDIT: https://youtu.be/sBTY1zDnMSE so, uh... game finished? Sadly :-/
-
Looks like you've cleared Infinite Corridor, so yeah that's it. Guess you went in blind for Kedama Goddess? I didn't do that in my run (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DEWN9o34hA) so it might be a poor comparison. In terms of speed, my run was 26 ticks compared to your run's 55 ticks if I counted correctly. Average level of 540 vs 590 as well.
Kinda surprised at just how effective Miko was at debuffing DEF when level 5 Elekiter Dragon Palace from Iku (the strongest and most accurate DEF debuff in the game) did nothing for me, lol. She doesn't even have anything to diminish DBF resistance like Reisen does. Miko is clearly a strong character, high damage, accurate debuffs, great skills.
With all the bosses taken down, do you have anything you're planning to do? I.E. grinding or party experimentation or whatever.
-
.... level 5 Elekiter Dragon Palace from Iku (the strongest and most accurate DEF debuff in the game) did nothing for me, lol. ...
cough cough Hina cough cough
On the note of surprisingly accurate plus disc debuff infliction, Awakened Rumia is really good at them. Dark Side of the Moon's debuffs aren't Hina strong, but they're still pretty reliable, especially since it affects all enemies. Moonlight Ray's ailment inflicting, however, is top of the line. I don't know exactly what the infliction rate is, but its definitely over 100%, since I could[very briefly] tag otherwise-immune bosses with basically any non DTH status ailment. Moonlight Ray is also super quick, meaning that Rumia can singlehandedly lock down an enemy who isn't super resistant to PAR or SHK.
-
Oops, misremembered Elekiter Dragon Palace as leveling up its DBF accuracy, but it doesn't. Just 100% compared to Hina's 116% at level 5. Never mind then!
Was wondering how effective Rumia is at debuffs and status effects, using her right now but not with Awakening. It seems really promising though, plus Moonlight Ray is one of the best MYS attacks in the game in terms of damage.
-
Unfortunately, I can't testify as to Rumia's damage. The party I'm running her in also has all three magicians[Marisa,Alice and Patchouli], all of whom have good MYS nukes and precedant for the best MAG equipment, so she kind of got overshadowed before.
On an unrelated note, does anyone know where the Oracle/Prophet's Proof is? The wiki says 26F, but I've explored that floor completely and still don't have it.
-
Looks like you've cleared Infinite Corridor, so yeah that's it. Guess you went in blind for Kedama Goddess? I didn't do that in my run (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DEWN9o34hA) so it might be a poor comparison. In terms of speed, my run was 26 ticks compared to your run's 55 ticks if I counted correctly. Average level of 540 vs 590 as well.
Yes I did go in kinda blindly, in hindsight I'd prolly have put Reimu in first slot from the getgo to resist Kedama's DTH effect (or, more simply, I would've given Renko a Medicine of Life). As for the level difference... I dunno what kind of items/level bonuses/gems etc. you ran, but I needed those levels simply to survive Serpent of Chaos without relying on extreme RNG luck (and even then, I barely made it with 2 chars left - pity I didn't record that one). Ofc, I could've been able to do it at a lower level if I used stronger items (I have mostly a caster team, and caster items notably give less firepower than physical ones - except for the very rare Tupsimati)
Kinda surprised at just how effective Miko was at debuffing DEF when level 5 Elekiter Dragon Palace from Iku (the strongest and most accurate DEF debuff in the game) did nothing for me, lol. She doesn't even have anything to diminish DBF resistance like Reisen does. Miko is clearly a strong character, high damage, accurate debuffs, great skills.
Yeah, Miko is insane. I dunno if you took a look at her stats in my video, but she's so powerful she can easily wear down a boss even with resisted blows, and waste away neutral targets (if the boss is SPI-weak, it's a walk in the park). Also, her DBF is incredibly accurate, I don't recall her ever failing me against any boss. Really, as I said many times, there is absolutely no reason not to use all of the 2X item characters (Nitori, Miko, Renko), as they are simply overpowered by endgame.
With all the bosses taken down, do you have anything you're planning to do? I.E. grinding or party experimentation or whatever.
Not really. As far as party experimentation goes, I'm vastly limited by the fact you can't change around awakening items (if there was some kind of ways, with Cheat Engine or w/e, to add them in so that I can give each char 1 of her awakening item, maybe I could do something more - but I'd need technical guidance on this one^^). Plus, there's really not much to do, other than pushing floor clearing and see how far you can get before mobs overpower you. Which I'm not geared much for, since many of the assumptions I had regarding Corridor clearing turned out to be utterly wrong^^
1) TP/MP management is not really a problem, every floor clearance gives you a free boost which, often, can heal you for 20-40% of all your team's MP/TP.
2) You hardly do more than 2-3 random encounters per floor unless you're doing them on purpose
3) Obviously, boss-oriented characters and builds (like tank Renko) are no longer required in the Corridor, even though some mobs do act like "mini bosses" on their own (the Grains, and all the boss clones)
If I were to fully focus on floor grind, I'd prolly have to rework my team strategy completely, getting rid of such chars as Reimu and Sanae and probably adding more "families" (such as the SDM or the Yakumo family, or maybe even T9). Again, though, limited awakenings are a problem.
On an unrelated note, does anyone know where the Oracle/Prophet's Proof is? The wiki says 26F, but I've explored that floor completely and still don't have it.
If I recall correctly, it's in the section of 26F which leads to the last of Yamata no Orochi's copies (the lvl 285 one). When you find yourself in the corridor which goes down to the blue switch (the one you press before moving to the stairs which lead back to 25F), try going all the way up instead and, behind a red barrier you should find the Oracle proof (if I recall correctly, that is). If you still can't find it, I can provide you a screenshot of the location tomorrow.
-
Yes I did go in kinda blindly, in hindsight I'd prolly have put Reimu in first slot from the getgo to resist Kedama's DTH effect (or, more simply, I would've given Renko a Medicine of Life). As for the level difference... I dunno what kind of items/level bonuses/gems etc. you ran, but I needed those levels simply to survive Serpent of Chaos without relying on extreme RNG luck (and even then, I barely made it with 2 chars left - pity I didn't record that one). Ofc, I could've been able to do it at a lower level if I used stronger items (I have mostly a caster team, and caster items notably give less firepower than physical ones - except for the very rare Tupsimati)
Item setup was
Akyuu: First-Aid Kit, Crystal Charm, 2x Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (max SPD in level bonuses)
Iku: Life Aura, Crystal Charm, 2x Long Sword "Crimson Lotus Princess" (max HP in level bonuses)
Sanae: Same as Akyuu (max HP in level bonuses)
Tenshi: First-Aid Kit, Crystal Charm, Ama no Habakiri, Massive Iron Crown of Chaos (max ATK in level bonuses)
Gems were 20 for every relevant stat (I.E. no ATK for Akyuu/Iku/Sanae, no MAG for Tenshi), library level 600 (60 affinity) for the same stats on everyone. Surviving Serpent of Chaos' Disintegrating Breath at average level 538 was pretty easy with max HP on everyone (except Tenshi and Akyuu), 3x LS "CLP", and First-Aid Kit/Tokugawa Statue, along with HP Second Boost. Transcendent subclass for the characters that need the extra HP. Stuff like Medicine of Life just makes it too easy for anyone to survive if setup to do so. If you're just using the same setups as you would for any other boss then you would need higher levels to do that though, although if you're debuffing its ATK/MAG then it's a lot easier to survive.
-
Well, that's a much stronger set up than I ran, items/gems wise (I didn't grind this many jewels). In fact, I'm pretty sure none of the fights we've seen in the TL2 postgame were balanced around chars with 10X Jewels or multiple second boost stats, or with this many Tokugawa Statues/Medicines of Life/etc. Many of these items, I speculate, are here probably for progression beyond what we've yet to see in the game. Even my setup, probably, was beyond what was expected by the game at this point.
I've not tried yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if, without multiple Corridor-exclusive items and other bonuses, Kedama Goddess required higher than lvl 600 characters to win (though I still feel like Serpent of Chaos was harder, despite being nominally 200 levels lower).
-
My setup was certainly stronger in terms of effectiveness, but in terms of items used, I didn't use anything high-end outside of the title drops from Hollow Orochi/Serpent of Chaos (which are guaranteed), and I didn't use anything that was stronger than what you did. I didn't use Scourge/Tupsimati/Medicine of Life/Regalia/etc, and stuff like Flower Blade Kikuryusei and Blue Crystal Rod are about the same rarity and effectiveness as CLP (Flower Blade and CLP are also both available for 20 Infinite Gems at Akyuu's shop). Quartz Charm is harder to acquire, but still much weaker than Medicine of Life or even Regalia in terms of pure defense, and is only a slight improvement over 3x CLP. Tenshi's setup was optimal for what I wanted (strongest ATK setup that could survive Space Compression comfortably), but nothing too extravagant since all of the items used were guaranteed drops, counting the Quartz Charm from the Guardian of the Crystals. The equipment I used wasn't crazy strong/rare or anything, the only character you had that was decked out in inferior-grade equipment in comparison was Renko. Most of the characters were actually better equipped, at least in terms of rarity/value.
Stat gems also matter surprisingly little, for how much time has to be invested to max them out.
Here's Tenshi's stats with 20: https://i.imgur.com/ROBgNVS.png
Here's Tenshi's stats with 10: https://i.imgur.com/EIEmeLF.png
A 6% increase in ATK, and a ~4% increase in HP. To further illustrate the differences in stats at play here, I copied your setup on Miko in terms of subclass/equipment/level bonus/stat boost distribution, so the only differences are that mine has +67 library levels in the basic stats and +20 stat gems, but is 55 levels lower (where she'd be at relative to all of my other party members with equal EXP investment).
Miko stats: https://i.imgur.com/nuumnty.png
Ends up with about 4% less MAG and about 1% less HP, though DEF/MND is slightly higher (not that those stats do much). Comparing other characters with equal leveling rates, your Sanae was 60 levels higher (but library 599 vs 600), Reimu was 62 levels higher than Akyuu (and 51 library levels higher), and Maribel/Rin were 60 levels higher than Iku, with Maribel being 16 library levels lower and Rin 36 higher. Didn't use Satori for Kedama Goddess, but mine's 58 levels lower, and 15 library levels as well. Accounting for a lack of things like Medicine of Life being used on my end along with all of this, and I would think that my characters and equipment setups were actually weaker. They are more optimized though, since I adjust everything for each boss individually.
All that aside, the game certainly isn't balanced around characters having a full setup of Medicine of Life and Regalia and whatnot, but stuff like Crimson Lotus Princess and Flower Blade Kikuryusei is very accessible and not that much stronger relative to more accessible Plus Disk equipment compared to, say, Grand Master Breaker Title, Genji Gloves, or Zeus Armor were for main game equipment, and those were much less accessible. 20 Infinite Gems are very easy to acquire in the later Corridor floors, and they're only semi-uncommon items there to begin with. I found 33 CLP and 27 FBK by the time I finished grinding gems, compared to 5 Medicine of Life, 7 Quartz Charms, and 9 Tupsimati. Would also add that 27f mobs drop some of the 1st tier stat gems at rates that range from 3-8%, so I think the game does expect players to be at 10X at least by then, which is around player level 400.
-
Tried out Awakened Rumia, and found out that she makes for a surprisingly good ailment inflictor and debuffer. Great Piercing Attack powers up Moonlight Ray by a considerable amount and it can now inflict all ailments :]. An 80% Evasion Boost allows her to stay out for longer, while Dark Side of the Moon has high debuff accuracy and decent strength (mid-10s usually). Probably going to use her a lot more.
I suppose there?s nothing left after the main game of PD except Kedama Goddess and Infinity Corridor, at least until 3peso hopefully updates next year.
-
Tried out Awakened Rumia, and found out that she makes for a surprisingly good ailment inflictor and debuffer. Great Piercing Attack powers up Moonlight Ray by a considerable amount and it can now inflict all ailments :]. An 80% Evasion Boost allows her to stay out for longer, while Dark Side of the Moon has high debuff accuracy and decent strength (mid-10s usually). Probably going to use her a lot more.
Rumia does indeed sound not half bad, but I'd be wary about using an Awakening Gem on her given the limited amount available. Especially since most of what she does, other heroes can do as well (especially Miko and Maribel). Is Rumia's damage output really so high as to justify using her over those two? I'll admit I've not tested her, but even with Moonlight Ray's favourable multiplier, Rumia's stats look sad.
-
Rumia does indeed sound not half bad, but I'd be wary about using an Awakening Gem on her given the limited amount available. Especially since most of what she does, other heroes can do as well (especially Miko and Maribel). Is Rumia's damage output really so high as to justify using her over those two? I'll admit I've not tested her, but even with Moonlight Ray's favourable multiplier, Rumia's stats look sad.
Yeah, her MAG is comparatively low and she?s still frail, though since I?m fielding Team 9 at the moment, she?s doing better than what you?d expect. Non synergy wise, it is better to replace her with Miko (that Maintenance), or Reisen. And of course, Awakened Sealing Club needs no discussion on its effectiveness.
-
Rumia does indeed sound not half bad, but I'd be wary about using an Awakening Gem on her given the limited amount available. Especially since most of what she does, other heroes can do as well (especially Miko and Maribel). Is Rumia's damage output really so high as to justify using her over those two? I'll admit I've not tested her, but even with Moonlight Ray's favourable multiplier, Rumia's stats look sad.
Actually, Rumia's high levelling rate means that her lower stats generally end up about the same as other character's who have high stats but low/average levelling rates (once you get late enough into the game anyway). This also gives her more skillpoints to invest in stat boosts or awakening skills. She also has pretty low library costs.
-
Quick stat comparison for some characters to give an idea of where Rumia's at. Assuming equal EXP investment, max gems, level 600 library, MAG Second Boost, max MAG for level bonuses, Transcendent subclass, and Tokugawa Statue/3x Tupsimati for equipment...
Rumia (level 558): 564,653 MAG
Iku (level 540, Awakened): 6452,17 MAG
Reisen (level 547): 561,984 MAG
Miko (level 496): 770,180 MAG
I can post images of the stats if that would be more helpful.
With I'm Fine Even by Myself (or however the EN patch translates solo Team (9) skill), Rumia's MAG would sit at 654,977. Iku has the highest MAG stat in the game (or roughly that, Patchouli is the only one that comes close), so she's pretty comfortably high up, just not broken like Miko.
As for Moonlight Ray, idk how Piercing Attack works, but it's a top tier MYS attack from damage calculations I've run disregarding it. Only things that should beat it are Master Spark, Forbidden Fruit, and Bedside Ancestors w/ TRR+SIL. With 6600 delay, a low MP cost, and no downside, it's pretty amazing. Dark Side of the Moon is pretty lackluster though.
-
According to the passive skill dump linked in the first post:
Piercing Attack
After defense calculations are applied, 20% of the pre-defense damage is
re-added to the current damage being caused.
So that's a decent damage boost even against enemies without high defenses. Great Piercing Attack is probably even better. Combine that with Youkai's Knowledge, which is useful against a lot of bosses, and Rumia becomes a pretty good damage dealer. Dark Side of the Moon is only really good for murdering 12F Tenshi and a few other annoyingly resilient DRK-weak enemies, although Awakening turns it into a decent debuff engine.
-
It seems that Cirno's Awakening is the least powerful out of the Team 9 characters. Unavoidable SPD debuffs are good and all, but Yukari's Mesh of Light and Darkness has higher efficacy.
Also realised that Yuuka is better suited for Archmage rather than subbing Sorceror. Majesty and Encounter with a Strong Foe provide her with enough buffs to make her relatively self-sufficient, and Archmage provides her with a Cold and Dark nuke to use (though the delays are still painfully long.) Her Awakening is also strange, since getting Protection of Plants to allow overhealing of her HP makes it harder for Gensokyo's Eternal Flower to restore MP. Dangerous Paradise is nice though, with the Concentrating guaranteeing that Extra Attack to proc.
-
According to the passive skill dump linked in the first post:
Piercing Attack
After defense calculations are applied, 20% of the pre-defense damage is
re-added to the current damage being caused.
So that's a decent damage boost even against enemies without high defenses. Great Piercing Attack is probably even better. Combine that with Youkai's Knowledge, which is useful against a lot of bosses, and Rumia becomes a pretty good damage dealer. Dark Side of the Moon is only really good for murdering 12F Tenshi and a few other annoyingly resilient DRK-weak enemies, although Awakening turns it into a decent debuff engine.
Although that's what it says, when I ran damage tests in-game with Piercing Attack I saw no damage increase on the 1f mobs from without it, which doesn't add up to the description here. So I'm not sure if that's actually how it works.
-
I assume it means 20%(per skill level) of the damage negated by their defense is re-added. I can't think of any but finding an enemy with really high magic defense would make it easy to confirm. I think it's notable that this is different from "people of the moon"-like skills. With those skills, it's still possible for enemies with extremely high defense to negate your damage. With piercing attack, I take it to mean you will always deal at least some damage and it becomes a stronger relative damage increase the more defense the enemy has. Considering the damage multiplier on moonlight ray, it's probably always better to use moonlight ray on single target enemies regardless of their mind stat unless they resist mystic or are weak to dark(like 12f tenshi as mentioned earlier). Even more so after awakening, with valuable status effects and increased piercing, though I don't know how much more piercing.
-
Oh, that makes sense. That's probably how it works, yeah. Sounds like a bit of a pain to manually calculate, but that's a pretty decent effect if that's how it works.
-
By the way, has anyone tried fielding the Oni trio together?
-
It seems that Cirno's Awakening is the least powerful out of the Team 9 characters. Unavoidable SPD debuffs are good and all, but Yukari's Mesh of Light and Darkness has higher efficacy.
Tbh, I'm not convinced in general by the T9 team in the Plus Disk - their awakenings are not exactly eye-catching, comparing to most others. I may be found wrong, ofc, and eventually I'll test them, but atm I feel like there're better options - both for clearing random encounters (Earth Palace and Eientei in particular) and for boss fights (Moriya Shrine and Sealing Club especially).
Also realised that Yuuka is better suited for Archmage rather than subbing Sorceror. Majesty and Encounter with a Strong Foe provide her with enough buffs to make her relatively self-sufficient, and Archmage provides her with a Cold and Dark nuke to use (though the delays are still painfully long.) Her Awakening is also strange, since getting Protection of Plants to allow overhealing of her HP makes it harder for Gensokyo's Eternal Flower to restore MP. Dangerous Paradise is nice though, with the Concentrating guaranteeing that Extra Attack to proc.
You're absolutely right - though, the lack of kinship multipliers, Maintenance, or other multipliers of some kind makes Yuuka a bit more underwhelming than she looks on paper, even in the Plus Disk. I tried Murakumo's Blessing on her and, even with Sanae's +30% SPI damage, her Start of Heavenly Demise doesn't hit especially hard (it hits about as hard as Sanae's own Night of Bright Guest Stars). Sure, Extra attack is nice and all, but you can't rely on that too much, and it doesn't change the fact that Yuuka is painfully slow. I guess she does have a place in boss battles, but that's about it.
-
Tbh, I'm not convinced in general by the T9 team in the Plus Disk - their awakenings are not exactly eye-catching, comparing to most others.
Yeah, Team 9?s awakenings seem somewhat underwhelming; Wriggle still has to rely on inflicting poison, and Mystia is still geared towards silencing and evading.
In other news, decided to Awaken Rinnosuke out of curiosity. Battle Command has become somewhat decent low cost and delay spell card with 33% all buff, and all his attacks (including normal ones) debuff by 10%, which is slightly better than the Avoid Ring). Precise information is a somewhat expensive AoE heal + buff, so it?s more of a last resort thing.
Overall, his ability as support is improved, but it?s hardly enough for him to replace main buffers like Keine or Sanae.
Edit: As a side note, as anyone tried out Murakumo Rinnosuke? And how viable is clearing main game using only plus disc characters?
-
Edit: As a side note, as anyone tried out Murakumo Rinnosuke? And how viable is clearing main game using only plus disc characters?
There're better choices than Rinnosuke for... just about everything. Maybe, once you get into lvl 2000+ and can make use of those Giga Boosts, but until then...
As for PD characters and main game... I'd say no. You need nukes and defense piercing characters for main game, and furthermore, PD chars tend to take too long to be "unlocked". I used some of them, and they started becoming truly competitive only past lvl 100.
-
Yeah, Team 9?s awakenings seem somewhat underwhelming; Wriggle still has to rely on inflicting poison, and Mystia is still geared towards silencing and evading.
In other news, decided to Awaken Rinnosuke out of curiosity. Battle Command has become somewhat decent low cost and delay spell card with 33% all buff, and all his attacks (including normal ones) debuff by 10%, which is slightly better than the Avoid Ring). Precise information is a somewhat expensive AoE heal + buff, so it?s more of a last resort thing.
Overall, his ability as support is improved, but it?s hardly enough for him to replace main buffers like Keine or Sanae.
Edit: As a side note, as anyone tried out Murakumo Rinnosuke? And how viable is clearing main game using only plus disc characters?
I tried clearing the main game with plus disc characters, Renko and Maribel, Rinnosuke and Nazrin once.
Renko and Maribel basically carried the game for me on that one.
-
There're better choices than Rinnosuke for... just about everything. Maybe, once you get into lvl 2000+ and can make use of those Giga Boosts, but until then...
Checked MAG Giga Boost on Rinnosuke, ends up with 580,270 MAG at level 537 with all of the same things as the prior MAG tests. ATK is the same. For comparison, Rumia with Mega Boost is 594,838 MAG (merely a 5% stat increase from Second Boost, lol).
When he can get every Giga Boost, Rinnosuke has high overall stats (maybe the highest overall), but he lacks skills to back them up effectively, at least as an attacker, and his offensive stats, while high, are surpassed by plenty of characters, some of which do have skills that boost their damage effectively. Still best as a support character.
-
Yeah, even if Rinnosuke can hit decent stats, the total lack of offensive passives beyond "applies a debuff" makes him a pretty poor attacker, even without considering subclass limitation for offense. The bulk doesn't make up for it as many other attackers do that great with better damage. Yuyuko completely disappointed me offensively for the same reason; nice stats, great attacks... but no offensive passives and expensive library made her actually kinda weak.
-
Is Rumia a remotely viable healer? At least compared to Reimu? Demarcation doesn't seem to be half as good as Exorcising Border.
I've started a NG+ file and I seem to be stuck on Alice. Here's my team: https://i.imgur.com/i7UoK80.png
And Mokou, who I usually replace someone with, usually Byakuren, for the early game. Basically, I'm trying to use characters that I didn't use in my main save file. Reimu is one of those characters, and I wanted a multi target healer, too, so I went with Rumia, but it seems that Demarcation is just not as good.
Basically, my strat for Alice is to make her end up somehow with 4 support dolls, who only seem to attack the left most character (In my case, a def buffed Tenshi) with weak attacks, while I DPS Alice. My main source of damage is Meiling's Mountain Breaker and Kasen's Diving Waltz of the Raijuu, and maybe Nitori's Super Scope 3D and Reisen's Discarder. There are two problems though:
- Her multi-targeting attacks are a bit much, so I can't have my healers out for too long.
- I seem to be lacking DPS, so I'm more likely than not doing something wrong.
This is the first boss I've had a problem with, though. I'm pretty okay with this team, aside from that, but the hard part of the game is only just beginning, so...
-
. Yuyuko completely disappointed me offensively for the same reason; nice stats, great attacks... but no offensive passives and expensive library made her actually kinda weak.
Yeah, she falls to the side damage wise, the most use I had for Yuyuko was clearing floor trash and maybe using her ATB reducing spell cards if Diva Aya is unavailable.
Demarcation?s formula is 33% MAG in contrast to Exocising Border?s 66% MAG; so pump up Rumia?s MAG for it to be effective, if not, then she?s basically a poor man?s Reimu if your using her as support.
-
Rumia's heal is on the weaker side but as long as you're willing to invest a bit in her MAG, it still patches up your team decently enough.
Against Alice, I think your best bet is to use Nitori's as your main attacker, give her Maintenance and Ability to Manipulate Water (along with your best ATK increasing equipment) and just keep spamming Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall; Alice is slightly weak to CLD so she should take decent damage, and the dolls should die in a few hits, forcing Alice to waste her turns re-summoning them. Otherwise just have Keine buff, Reisen debuff Alice as much as she can and Meiling and Kasen pitch in whenever they can to defeat Alice faster, Kaguya and Eiki can also help kill the dolls faster with their AoE's.
-
Is Rumia a remotely viable healer? At least compared to Reimu? Demarcation doesn't seem to be half as good as Exorcising Border.
Definitely, although her numbers early game are pretty weak, her MAG scales up faster then the party's health does. Debuff clearing is also situationally useful, although its not the main point of the ability.
As for Alice, the difficulty of that fight comes from trying to balance clearing her dolls so fast she can't murder you with Artful Sacrifice/Hanged Hourai Dolls and not leaving your squishy damage dealers out in front when she uses her guaranteed Trip Wire/Little Legion. It might be worth giving Nitori a +100 PHY item so she can tank Alice's desperation attacks along with the tanks.
-
Rumia is a great healer, but she's more of an attacker who can also heal, than someone you would build defensively and use mainly for heals; she's a great backup heal option if you're healing mainly with one of Reimu/Maribel/Eirin etc. Her MND is -very- good but HP is poor and you might consider a first aid kit (although you're likely to have higher priority choices for those, and the huge HP sub equips can work instead).
Don't run Rumia if you want to just build her defensively and mainly for Demarcation, because Reimu would greatly outclass her. She kind of needs the MAG investment a more offensive build will have anyway.
-
Beat Alice, lucky win again.
https://youtu.be/4AOcmNfSTxo
-
So, question. what all happens when a character uh, awakens or whatever is in the demo. do they get more then 5 levels in their spell cards? new spell calds? new passives? ect? can anyone give me some decently informed info on what it entails, sense noones allowed to post expansion info on the wiki :/
-
A character awakens by obtaining their first awakening item (through exchanging Jewels of Greater Awakening you get from defeating bosses in the Infinite Corridor); they get new passives and some of them get new spellcards. They also get +1% damage dealt and -0.5% damage received (this bonus can be stacked up to 50 times by obtaining more copies of each character's item).
The new passives and spellcards they get can be found on the "character" section of the wiki.
-
So who's a good first character to Awaken? My party staples are Meiling, Sakuya, Kasen, Reimu (though she's a staple in the back except on bosses), Nitori and Kanako. But I'm open to hearing suggestions on anyone else. I'm absolutely not ever replacing Meiling since she's mega OP in my party, but otherwise everything is still somewhat subject to changing up.
-
So who's a good first character to Awaken? My party staples are Meiling, Sakuya, Kasen, Reimu (though she's a staple in the back except on bosses), Nitori and Kanako.
By awakening Reimu, she can become a tanky support who can stand on the frontline more often, while simultaneously buffing her SPD as well as that of the entire front line every time she receives a turn. Another passive adds medium chance, medium power PAR to all attacks, which stacks with spell or equipment effects.Youkai Buster will give higher damage bonus.
Meiling?s awakening passives are simple but effective, with a 10% damage reduction, and a 20% damage increase to attacks as well as the ability to occasionally counter enemy attacks with a irresistable PAR. (Activation rate is increased commensurate with number of SDM residents on the frontline.)
As for Sakuya, Private World?s PAR is increased, and a counter based damage boost, where for every turn received, the countersink increased by 1. When attacking, the damage is increased by (counter * 5)%. When Sakuya is attacked, the existing counter is halved. The counter maxes at 20.
Kasen gains a temporary self buff that lets her do 25% more damage and take 25% less damage, and although they are not permanent they can keep working for a while. Combined with Fighting Spirit Kasen can achieve quite a lot of damage increase and reduction, although the MP cost is expensive, especially if the effects run out quickly. Besides that, Adversity+ and Healthy Mind and Body work in tandem to give Kasen a boost depends on her current condition; Healthy Mind and Body gives her a small offensive and defensive boost, while Adversity greatly increases her damage output.
Nitori's awakened skills are more support-oriented, though that makes sense since she already has maintenance. Improved Versatile Machine allows Nitori to maintain her self-buff a lot better, which indirectly increases her firepower as well, and makes it easier to pass her turn just a moment whilst waiting for a support character to do their job. Kappa's Material Aesthetica doesn't directly contribute to combat at all, but it allows the player to obtain more equipment and materials to craft equipment with, which combined with Maintenance allows her to obtain powerful stat boosts as well.
Kanako gets damage and stat boosts, Divine Authority works like a Fighting Spirit that doesn't disappear upon switching out and gives more damage bonus, giving Kanako an easy-to-get, and no-maintenance -required 50% damage boost, and reduces damage received to 75%. Majesty+ increases her passive self-buff from 6% to 9%, definitely welcome for a bulky attacker.
Oh, and does anyone know where Ironman?s headband drops? Since I searched every floor, it must be an Infinity Item?? And if so, how rare is it?
-
Ironman's Headband is indeed an Infinite Corridor treasure. It's fairly rare. Got 18 in something like 60 hours of Corridor grinding (so about 1 every 3 hours or so on average). You can get most of the items made from it as a treasure as well though, which helps out. They're a bit more rare (got 7 Power Dragon Scale Mails, 9 Scourge, 5 Medicine of Life, 6 Long Sword "Ringil", and 10 Tupsimati).
-
By awakening Reimu, she can become a tanky support who can stand on the frontline more often, while simultaneously buffing her SPD as well as that of the entire front line every time she receives a turn. Another passive adds medium chance, medium power PAR to all attacks, which stacks with spell or equipment effects.Youkai Buster will give higher damage bonus.
Meiling?s awakening passives are simple but effective, with a 10% damage reduction, and a 20% damage increase to attacks as well as the ability to occasionally counter enemy attacks with a irresistable PAR. (Activation rate is increased commensurate with number of SDM residents on the frontline.)
As for Sakuya, Private World?s PAR is increased, and a counter based damage boost, where for every turn received, the countersink increased by 1. When attacking, the damage is increased by (counter * 5)%. When Sakuya is attacked, the existing counter is halved. The counter maxes at 20.
Kasen gains a temporary self buff that lets her do 25% more damage and take 25% less damage, and although they are not permanent they can keep working for a while. Combined with Fighting Spirit Kasen can achieve quite a lot of damage increase and reduction, although the MP cost is expensive, especially if the effects run out quickly. Besides that, Adversity+ and Healthy Mind and Body work in tandem to give Kasen a boost depends on her current condition; Healthy Mind and Body gives her a small offensive and defensive boost, while Adversity greatly increases her damage output.
Nitori's awakened skills are more support-oriented, though that makes sense since she already has maintenance. Improved Versatile Machine allows Nitori to maintain her self-buff a lot better, which indirectly increases her firepower as well, and makes it easier to pass her turn just a moment whilst waiting for a support character to do their job. Kappa's Material Aesthetica doesn't directly contribute to combat at all, but it allows the player to obtain more equipment and materials to craft equipment with, which combined with Maintenance allows her to obtain powerful stat boosts as well.
Kanako gets damage and stat boosts, Divine Authority works like a Fighting Spirit that doesn't disappear upon switching out and gives more damage bonus, giving Kanako an easy-to-get, and no-maintenance -required 50% damage boost, and reduces damage received to 75%. Majesty+ increases her passive self-buff from 6% to 9%, definitely welcome for a bulky attacker.
Hmm, so it sounds like I should choose between Meiling, Kasen or Kanako for this. I'm running a heavy firepower investment build on everyone here but Meiling and Reimu, and even then, my Meiling is so pumped up that she's tanky enough to just get ATK level bonuses from here on out to increase her effectiveness with Mountain Breaker. Increased damage dealt by her could be very valuable in a pinch as in particularly destructive fights she's often the only one standing (and still going strong with most of her HP).
My frontline for bosses is usually Meiling/Byaku/Sakuya/Kasen now but Sakuya is probably the weakest of the 4 in terms of tankiness so using the Awakening on her would probably be a waste since she'll fall relatively fast.
Kanako is good at hitting damage where a lot of others can't penetrate defenses well enough so it might be valuable on her, but either way its a huge damage increase and damage reduction so that sounds pretty lovely. I'll have to think about it, thanks though!
-
Kanako is good at hitting damage where a lot of others can't penetrate defenses well enough so it might be valuable on her, but either way its a huge damage increase and damage reduction so that sounds pretty lovely. I'll have to think about it, thanks though!
When the user uses Mad Dance on Medoteko, increase Onibashira counter by 1. Increase user's damage output by (counter * 10)% and decrease user's damage intake by (counter * 5)%. The counter maxes at 5.
Welp, time to continue farming the corridor
-
@ZoomyTsugumi: Something you should also take into account is that awakening skills are very expensive (generally about 200-300 to learn all of them), so you should awaken first the characters who either have realtively cheap awakening skills or have an abundance of leftover skillpoints. Not taking into account Proof of Kinship and some weaker support oriented or situational passives, Kasen needs about 95 skillpoints, Meiling 115, Sakuya 60, Reimu oscillates between 56-200 and Kanako between 45-185.
Sakuya's awakening encourages a hit and run playstyle, where you switch her to the frontline to attack/buff and immediatelly switch her back to avoid her getting hit in the first place, so it's probably not very good if you're using her as a stay-in buffer/attacker.
Reimu's Super Youkai Buster extends the effect of Youkai Buster to the whole frontline which gives a substantial damage boost against youkai bosses. Her counter increases the speed of your whole frontline by up to 30%.
-
Koishi?s Awakening skill set was kind of underwhelming for me. Sure, successful evasions now mean an extra turn, which is nice and all, but Embryo?s Dream is basically a nerfed Extra Attack that costs MP and procs through evading.
Still, she serves as a decent evade-mage if fielded alongside the rest of the Earth Spirits Palace family, boosting her stats and MP efficiency. Utsuho?s Blazing will also amp up Embers of Love, while Satori and Rin can inflict SIL and TRR respectively, which powers up All Ancestors Standing on Your Bed into a mystic nuke.
I suppose including Suika in the party to increase Koishi?s evasion, and Parsee and/or Reisen to provide the ailments that let All Ancestors hit hard.
-
The extra areas part of the postgame is a neat concept but my god are some of these bosses for the light pillars insanely weird and kind of unenjoyable. Is it me or is boss balance in this game kind of bad? There seems to be a weirdly large amount of bosses that are really difficult to damage even when you have insanely overpowered people on your team (Nitori).
Great C was frustrating but not unbearable, hardest part was making sure that they'd all die in one more hit and that there wouldn't be any stragglers. Second Sun seems really difficult though, and party switching so constantly is just an extremely annoying gimmick. Guardian of the Crystals completely destroyed me though. The level recommendations are way low, I must be doing something wrong? But with some of these bosses I feel like if I sacrifice firepower for better bulkiness I'm not going to be able to damage anything. I don't know, I'm already reaching level 200 with Nitori and Meiling, but maybe i should just grind more. There's so much choice in this game that I'm feeling quite overwhelmed and unsure where to pool my money/skill points.
Also, how to build Renko, statwise? HP or DEF/MND or a hybrid? I've got a significant investment in her SPD currently, but I don't know if she's enough to replace OP Meiling even if I hugely invest in her as well.
-
The non-plus postgame bosses are reallllly annoying and a big portion is that a lot of them are absurdly hard to damage. I hear that's not a problem in Plus Disk (at least, you know, outside of a few particular bosses which is reasonable and fair) The challenge levels only feel remotely reasonable if you're using parties that are practically tailor-made for the bosses (or at least, Hina or Reisen and a lot of defense piercing damage)
Renko isn't really a Meiling replacement since Meiling is a godly bulky attacker, where Renko is a support tank. I think Renko can work as both HP tank or def/mnd tank or hybrid, since she can get absurd stats in either and has innate HP regen with Maribel out to synergize with max hp builds.
-
Postgame is probably the part that has the worst balance in the game: bosses with extremely high defences render any character without extremely high ATK/MAG or the ability to ignore/pierce defences mostly useless offensively, and at the same time, almost all bosses have a few gimmicks that reduce the value of your tanks. As you said, the challenges levels are too low for the most part (though again, this depends a lot on team composition), some of them are still doable if you follow the "Challenge level x1.2 library points". If you're having trouble, overlevelling and then kicking a few party members out to stay in the challenge level may be a good idea. Once you're done withthe postgame, Plus Disk is a significantly better balance wise (though it also has its own problems).
For Renko, you generally want to invest in her HP, since her MND is pretty bad; plus if you use Maribel their synergy gives her a decent amount of HP regen, which benefits HP tanks greatly.
-
For Renko, you generally want to invest in her HP, since her MND is pretty bad; plus if you use Maribel their synergy gives her a decent amount of HP regen, which benefits HP tanks greatly.
Eh, considering she has maintenance, it really isn't. (especially after being taught def/mnd boost) She does work really well in an HP build (especially as that becomes more useful the farther you get), but before def/mnd taper off in usefulness some she can easily get the best def/mnd stat in your entire party. Which is a little easier to keep healed up, esp. if you aren't using Maribel. Both are good~
-
The extra areas part of the postgame is a neat concept but my god are some of these bosses for the light pillars insanely weird and kind of unenjoyable. Is it me or is boss balance in this game kind of bad? There seems to be a weirdly large amount of bosses that are really difficult to damage even when you have insanely overpowered people on your team (Nitori).
Yeah, that's the postgame bosses for you. I didn't find Second Sun too bad, but that was before Laevatinn/Gambler were nerfed, so things could be much different. Guardian of the Crystals, on the other hand, is probably the hardest boss anywhere in the game. The way to go is basically to get the strongest alpha strike you can in the single free turn before any of the enemies act. Have Yuyuko instadeath the Wind Crystal and then go all in with Kaguya and one of Marisa or Flandre. Ideally you want to use Spiriting Away and Aya in order to get as much damage in as possible. The battle becomes possible once you've killed both the Fire and Wind Crystals, although it is still extremely difficult. Last time I did this, I actually managed to kill the Guardian before it got a turn, but that was abusing Laevatinn/Gambler/Genji Glove and took dozens of tries before I got the triple damage proc several times in a row.
-
The extra areas part of the postgame is a neat concept but my god are some of these bosses for the light pillars insanely weird and kind of unenjoyable. Is it me or is boss balance in this game kind of bad? There seems to be a weirdly large amount of bosses that are really difficult to damage even when you have insanely overpowered people on your team (Nitori).
Yeah, the main game's postgame bosses are probably the hardest ones in the game. I SHK cheesed The Great "C" to death to skip its duplication entirely, but mainly because I couldn't get a more consistent strategy fighting it normally. The Second Sun wasn't too bad (although I did empty the party of nonessential members to minimize the hassle of Time-Space Warp), but the Guardian of the Crystals has my vote for the hardest boss in the game, nothing contests that. You can definitely defeat it at challenge level, but it's pretty grueling. Took me about 20 minutes accounting for the frame rate loss while recording, but a large part of that was because I used Tenshi as the sole attacker throughout the entire fight. This is definitely one fight where you want multiple attackers due to how much MP you have to go through.
Wind Crystal has very low HP and defenses and can be taken out in a couple turns, but has high EVA so you have to be sure to use either high ACC attacks or have ACC boosts like Momiji's 50% boost to deal with it. My recommendation is taking it out first due to Calming Scent. If it gets a turn there's a very real possibility it'll just use that a couple times and then the Guardian of the Crystals can use Dark Star, which is pretty much a party wipe. Earth Crystal is susceptible to PAR and Water Crystal is susceptible to SHK, those two can be disabled for long periods of time provided that you have the MP for it. As long as you can prevent them from acting, you'll only have to deal with the Guardian of the Crystals and the Fire Crystal. Should be able to eliminate at least one of the Crystals this way. Water Crystal's Shredder is pretty dangerous this early in the game since buffs are vital for damaging and survival, so this one gets preference imo. Earth Crystal would be next for the healing. Guardian of the Crystals goes berserk if it's the last enemy standing, so defeating it before defeating the last Crystal is vital. That leaves you having to survive the attacks of the Fire Crystal throughout the entire fight.
Water Crystal has high overall DEF/MND, but if you debuff its defenses you can damage it fine. Earth Crystal has low DEF and high MND, while Fire Crystal is the opposite. Earth Crystal is also very resistant to non-SPD debuffs, so you'll definitely want to target its DEF or use defense-ignoring attacks on it. Fire Crystal's DEF is easy to debuff though. Make sure not to debuff Guardian of the Crystals too much, that'll trigger Dark Star too. It uses Dark Star when its combined buffs are at or exceed 150%, or combined debuffs are at or exceed 75%. As far as equipment goes, 3x Grand Master Breaker Title is your best option in almost all cases, but realistically you probably aren't going to grind for that on every character. Cyber Elf Grandie and Star of Elendil work out too. Fight mostly involves tanking MYS/DRK attacks, with primarily FIR targeting the first slot (Fire Crystal does have a potentially dangerous multi-target attack though). The other Crystals have weaker attacks, use fewer offensive attacks with their turns (particularly Earth Crystal), and can have their turns delayed easily (besides Wind Crystal which should be defeated rapidly), so their attacks are of less concern. Not to be ignored entirely, but the main offensive threat comes from the Guardian of the Crystals and the Fire Crystal. The Fire Crystal is the most dangerous to your first slot due to Crimson Lotus Fang and the highest attacking stat between all of the enemies, so FIR resistance is more important there. MYS/DRK are more relevant to the other party slots.
Another thing you could do is take out the Fire Crystal before the Earth Crystal, but then you have to spend more time PAR locking it to mitigate/negate its healing, since you have to leave it for last. This would be more complicated and luck reliant, but means taking less damage from the Fire Crystal, and the Earth Crystal is less dangerous alone than the Fire Crystal.
-
Great C is almost trivial if you have Hina, since the debuff resistance is low. All it's attacks become pretty toothless and it slows down quite a bit. At that point your main concern is just trying to kill them all at the same time.
Guardian of the Crystals though... ooomph!
-
Defeating all of them at the same time was actually the main problem. I tried several times to beat them all simultaneously with Tenshi's Violent Motherland, but the first one always went down when the others still had about 40-50% of their HP. It was really strange. I tried using Reisen's Gas-Woven Orb for PSN in combination with Violent Motherland but it still didn't get them down low enough for a quintuple knockout, the first one would get down to 1 HP before the others were close enough to defeat. So my options were to either whittle them all down simultaneously with PSN, settle for defeating the first "C" and then use single-target spells to bring it down low enough for a simultaneous knockout, or just SHK cheese and use Iku to ignore its defenses. That last option just seemed like the most consistent and easiest to do, so I went with that and nailed it on the second try.
The other problem that forced the SHK lock solution was that The Great "C" could, at any time two (or more) of them act in a row, wipe out a character via Black Universe followed by "C" Falling from the Sky, since that one ignores defenses. Of course, anything that deals damage can do this, but there is no way to negate "C" Falling from the Sky's damage. Having five bosses attacking simultaneously with the ability to use Black Universe was...questionable, design. Didn't feel that way for anything else in the game. The other fights could be hard, but they were fair and lacked cheap shots like that.
-
All of the "C"s actually have different health scores. The one in the center has the least health. I remember that I used Midgard's Tooth with Misdirection to poison them until the center one ended up at 1 HP and then switched to having Sakuya just basic attack the "C" I needed poisoned. Wriggle probably would have worked better, but I was running a fixed team. Their combo with Black Universe and "C" Falling from the Sky wasn't that bad if they were all kept at low speeds by Perfect Freeze, although I do remember losing a few party members to it just because the fight took so long.
-
For Great C, I just pumped Yuuka's defensive capabilities so that she could fairly easily stay on the front line with buffs. Gensokyo Reflowering hits all consistently for high numbers, the original boss dies easily but in the time it takes for you to kill it and let it respawn you can bring it back down to low again by continuing to use GR and then it falls more in line with the health of the others. Then can use flower shot to individually take down some health.
Only problem with this strat was Extra Attack meant individually hurting them and even sometimes using GR was a bit of a gamble in if she'd proc it and then accidentally kill one, so I did employ some assorted other people to help take down some of the straggling health and finished them off with Yuuka.
Spent no time debuffing and didn't reallly capitalize on poison except the occasional one from Mystia's NTR attack. GR however was extremely useful for small boosts in HP to keep everyone topped up after nasty attacks.
-
All of the "C"s actually have different health scores. The one in the center has the least health. I remember that I used Midgard's Tooth with Misdirection to poison them until the center one ended up at 1 HP and then switched to having Sakuya just basic attack the "C" I needed poisoned. Wriggle probably would have worked better, but I was running a fixed team. Their combo with Black Universe and "C" Falling from the Sky wasn't that bad if they were all kept at low speeds by Perfect Freeze, although I do remember losing a few party members to it just because the fight took so long.
Ugh, is that the case? No wonder it was such a hassle. It makes sense, I did count the damage involved, but I thought they were all identical despite the HP counts clearly not being identical. Pity Akyuu wasn't available that early, she would have made it obvious.
Anyway, one of my targets for runs is to do the boss without losing any characters (I made an allowance for Shadow Youkai Mountain team though, it was the fastest way to beat them), which is why I dislike The Great "C"'s Black Universe so much. It's the only fight where luck is a sole factor involved in whether or not a character gets defeated. I could set the party up to survive 3-4 "C" Falling from the Sky in a row even without MAG debuffs in play, but there is nothing that can be done if Black Universe gets thrown out there.
-
Culex was hard but doable. What frustrated me the most was the fight with the Desire Eating Demon.
A lot of it?s attacks inflict various ailments, and on the 4th turn, it will use Empty Mouth That Swallows Sinners, a single target Dark attack that inflicts Death, regardless of resistances.
After it is used the first time, The Desire Demon will alternate between its status effect attacks and Empty Mouth That Swallows Sinners. My party always gets decimated up to this point in the fight. The boss also has very high HP, Defense, even higher MND and is extremely fast so yeah...
After dying six times to it, I just decided to cheese the fight by shock locking it with Orin and Maribel, with Diva Aya covering for them
-
Yeah Desire Eating Demon was definitely designed with the expectation that you were going to SHK lock it. With 0 resistance to it it's pretty trivial with that strategy, although I guess designing a boss like that in itself is pretty cheap design. Definitely the most strict in how you have to approach it if you want a no-death run of it, SHK spam is the only viable strategy there. Not all that cool.
-
The strategy I usually use against Desire-Eating Demon is to have two strong attackers subbing as monks spamming Iron-Mountain Charge in the rightmost slots while I throw disposable characters as sacrifices in the 2 leftmost slots; with proper equipment, the fact that the boss only uses status attacks means it's basically going to do almost no damage to even very frail characters, so glass-cannons can stay in the front and pump up as much damage as they can without worrying about being killed (in fact, it's probably the only fight where Flandre's Vampiric Wrath can actually come in handy). It's basically a damage race, though like most postgame fights, particular characters (Mokou and Orin/Maribel) just make the fight so much easier.
-
Holy dung I couldnt log in for like a month.
Started playing this again cuz fantranslation progress on plus disk.
That said I never enjoyed late 2 as much as 1 so I never could be bothered to do the post game... doing it for the first time now... hot damn what a slog. Like every freakin boss I debuff their defenses by 50%. Buff my attack by 60-100%. And most of my party STILL hit for 0s at challenge level.
I actually thought the 4 post bosses to be less of a pain than the azure giant and knowledge boss.
I still have to kill the final boss though. I tried once, seemed to be doing fine but then did something that made me call bs and level up a bit more. Cant recall what.
Really looking forward to plus disk though. I do enjoy the dungeon diving in 2s main game minus grinding for bonus tenshi.
Edit. Oh yeah I forgot to ask. I made genji gloves with a dragons mane. Found the other mane, but zeus armor isnt there to craft. What other materials Do I need?
-
*2 Hero's Soul
*2 Mysterious Structure
*2 Light Needle
-
Thanks!
-
Don?t bother farming Genji Gloves/Zeus' Armor, as those become outdated as soon as you step into Plus Disk, where +256% ATK equips and +240% MAG equips become semi-common
-
So I finally defeated the Guardian of the Crystals with probably the silliest strategy ever.
Nitori, who is sitting pretty at Level 219 with 84k ATK, managed to kill the entire fight almost singlehandedly.
Strategy was frontline of Meiling/Byakuren/Iku/Nitori to get Nitori up to full ATK buffs almost immediately, before the Guardian can even get a turn. Fire off an Iron Mountain Charge for an easy 300k damage. Then when all the crystals are subbed in I switch Iku for Momiji who was subbed Herbalist, so that I could get the passive ACC buff (Nitori's main equip reduces her ACC considerably in exchange for ATK power) and then with the subclass spells I was able to tack on Herb of Awakening to Nitori every time Momiji got a turn (which was twice since i didn't beef her up so she died fast).
Nitori, who has Overheating as well, naturally piled on the damage with Extending Arm, to the point where on the last hit on the guardian I did 1mil damage, and killed it and the water/wind crystals in one fell swoop. Then it was a simple Waterfall to victory.
I think the enemies all only got 2-3 turns before they got decimated.
-
Don?t bother farming Genji Gloves/Zeus' Armor, as those become outdated as soon as you step into Plus Disk, where +256% ATK equips and +240% MAG equips become semi-common
Needed for achievement thing... normally I dont care about achievements but they unlock stuff in this game.
Edit: so I beat futo, which took awhile cuz I just reset whenever she would 10 plate full heal but one time I didnt then beat her. I was surprisee how easy she was after struggling so long to get there. I suspect when she 10 plates or super heals she lowers her stats permanently or something. She dropped an egg but not the other item. Not gonna try to get it again.
Is there a reliable source of infinity gems later on? So far ive spent them all on keys. Even still im out of keys but still see 2 locked chests.
-
Yeah, Infinity Gems are a common item from treasure in the Infinite Corridor, you can even get 10 from one treasure somewhat frequently. Think later floors gave up to 20, don't quite recall.
-
im having a hard time grasping library levels in LoT2. in LoT1 on the wiki their clearly called SkillLevels on the wiki, and it provides formulas for them, simple, easy, i get it. i don't get the formula for EXP at all, but i get skill levels.
in LoT2, skill levels aka library levels arn't even on the wiki. and they arn't talked about in the gameplay / stat formulas. i have no idea how they work. there is skillboost, and highskillboost, but not skill levels/library info. before i sit here and try to make formulas for like 15 hours, anyone happen to already know? like, what determines their cost at a specific level?
-
im having a hard time grasping library levels in LoT2. in LoT1 on the wiki their clearly called SkillLevels on the wiki, and it provides formulas for them, simple, easy, i get it. i don't get the formula for EXP at all, but i get skill levels.
in LoT2, skill levels aka library levels arn't even on the wiki. and they arn't talked about in the gameplay / stat formulas. i have no idea how they work. there is skillboost, and highskillboost, but not skill levels/library info. before i sit here and try to make formulas for like 15 hours, anyone happen to already know? like, what determines their cost at a specific level?
All I know is that the game has a formula that calculates the "base cost" of how much money is required to advance a stat by one level, and each character has a unique "multiplier" that is multiplied to that base cost in the end. The multiplier is listed as "Library Cost" in the wiki, which denotes the money required to raise an elemental affinity from Lv0 to Lv1. I tried to find the formula for the base cost once, and failed utterly because it grows in a very weird way that doesn't seem to be polynomial at all. If you want to take a stab at it, feel free to do so.
The boost and high boost skills are not related to library levels at all, which is why no one calls library levels "skill levels" in 2. They're just character skills, levelled up using SKP (like the more unique and personal skills) and gives an integer increase to base stats.
-
So now im at 23f/7b
Im not stuck but I wanna do endless corridor. But I read that you should expect 100 floors+ in a dive for best rewards.
So... i feel like I need to avoid progressing in it until I feel like Im over 100 levels over the 1st floor enemies (if not more). If I want to make the most of it. Opinions?
-
Best way to grind the shop items is to just clear out the 100 floors and grind 101f. In the current version, 101f loops infinitely, with the enemies becoming stronger with each loop (resetting when you exit the Corridor). This lets you get as much Seven Star Dust as you want to shop without having to fight any bosses.
Doing all 10 bosses in a single run is definitely a PITA, each boss is 36 levels higher than the last, with the final one being level 600 and significantly harder than the others. Doing it more segmented is easier, but nothing much is really specifically worth purchasing on the way toward 101f, at least imo.
-
Yeah, just grind Infinite Corridor Floor 1 for Ironman's headbands/Tetsujin no hachimaki or whatever name the translation used if you want OP equipment. Sometimes you may even get them from chests instead of having to craft them.
-
Clearing a lot of floors at once simply gives you more Seven Star Dust to spend on the shop between floors, but most of what you can buy there can also be obtained either from Akyuu, Crafting, from enemy drops, or in Chests (even the most expensive equipments can be obtained from 4-5 exclamation mark chests if you're lucky enough). So most of the time just grinding the same floor (by entering and exiting) to find chests/grind drops can be more rewarding; since I believe you get better rewards the higher the floor, you should just clear floors until you're the same level as the enemies and grind there.
-
I see thanks. I thought it went up to 1000 not 100.
That sounds more fun yay. So far Ive been doing 1f and exiting a dozen or so times. Oddly enough chests with more !s are crap and the singles are good. Some single loot I got include 4/6 infinity stones, training manuals, fatima, rhodendron dress,etc. Got 2 4!chests. One was a single infinity gem, the other was some page 1 main equipment garbage. Similarly nearly all of my 2 and 3! Chests were pre-plus disk equipment, and not even good ones like ribbon or whatever.
Anyway I just beat mika, frankly she was a joke compared to futa.
Was hina nefed at some point? I recall not using her on my first playthru and people saying things like 1 shotting the final bosd with her and stuff. But when I use painflow with -50 across the board against an enemy with -80ish defenses and weak to dark... it hits hard yes but less so than 3d cannon would or something. Its actually less powerful than a simple patchy concentrated +mag buff nuke.
-
Hina hasn't been nerfed, no. Think you might be thinking of Parsee for the final boss one-shot.
-
Rather than nerfing Hina they nerfed Hexer, which was kinda what made her so broken. She could never oneshot the final boss, but she could probably solo it.
-
I dunno, before the final boss got big buffs in patches Hina might have gotten pretty close to one-shotting it.
She should still be pretty powerful post-awakening though. Really powerful direct damage increase on debuffed enemies (up to 250%, 1% per debuff point) and a good team synergy skill. Of course, right now you can only awaken a few people...
-
250%?! That?s ridiculous, especially when you consider Biorhythm?s high affliction rate; and with Reisen?s Vertigo in play...
-
Hina was never really a nuke-grade character other than Pain Flow (which, as stated, still just compares to nukes that -don't- require and then wipe all of Hina's debuffs) so honestly, something like that is necessary to keep her offensively relevant compared to just building her for tanky debuffs. Old Lady Ohgane's Fire should be really solid with sorc subclass for 30% extra damage, considering her debuff damage boost ability requires Hina to be using her personal skills.
Also worth considering that, realistically, you'll have more like 120~150% damage boost (spd is hard to debuff, and debuffs decay down from 50% quite fast of course) but that's still more than doubling her damage. Double damage on Hina is just enough to make her a viable offensive option postgame, where you have so many other powerful awakenings and attackers to choose.
-
Can take Hina's damage a step further than Sorcerer by using Murakumo's Blessing for the 56% damage bonus and higher MAG bonus.
tbh Hina gets a lot of damage on her Awakening considering most other characters don't even get close to 50% more damage, she's only really let down on bosses that are really debuff resistant and the fact that she's limited to FIR and DRK for her personal spell cards (and Pain Flow wipes her debuffs, not sure if it's comparable to Parsee's Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely). Hina's one of the few characters that can act with an effective 100% MAG buff (and she "buffs" herself with Misfortune God's Biorhythm, looking at something like turn 2 -50% debuffs on her, that's on a pace similar to Reisen's Grand Patriot's Elixir, but a constant buff), she's somewhere like top 10 in MAG stats accounting for level rates, and having a secondary debuffer to maintain debuffs like Reisen or Awakening Miko can produce a huge improvement in her damage. Her Awakening makes her pretty amazing, just with some key weaknesses that prevent it from being as strong as it could be. It would be way better if she had Sheer Force, but she regrettably doesn't.
-
I mean, sure, you can always use Murakumo's Blessing, but it's kind of a waste to put it on Hina over someone else. She doesn't get the damage bonus on subclass skills so she can't even get a lot of use out of it's strong attacks- they're there if the boss resists drk/fir and is weak to SPI but in those cases you'd be vastly better served with it on any of your other attackers.
She doesn't have Sheer Force but she does have well over 100% debuff rate, at least. Not many bosses resist def/mnd debuffs to a large degree.
-
It's more that, if you're in a situation where you want to attack with Hina, she's probably your strongest attacker by a large margin, so there isn't really anyone better suited for Murakumo's Blessing. Hina will either be the only attacker you need or just the one most worthwhile for Murakumo's Blessing. You can just switch it to another character when Hina's an undesirable attacker. It's a little tedious to frequently switch subclasses, but it makes a big difference in how smoothly a boss fight goes.
-
I beat the game with my NG+ file, and Shredding Amnisieri doesn't seem to appear. I wonder if it's because it was a NG+ file
-
The three deformed bosses don?t spawn in NG+ due to a bug.
-
So, when do you think 3peso will release the last update this year?
-
So, when do you think 3peso will release the last update this year?
Pretty sure you may as well throw darts to figure that out.
-
Especially considering he seems to have dropped off the face of the internet entirely, I just hope the guy's even OK.
-
Same. Though I still think that this will one day be finished. Hopefully.
-
I got really lucky and somehow managed to defeat the Serpent of Chaos pretty underlevelled with Nitori as my main attacker, literally the only 2 characters that could survive Disintegrating Breath were Mokou (by resurrecting) and Minoriko. The first breath hit Minoriko and missed Aya without killing Nitori; the second one killed Nitori and left only Mokou alive (who was immune to his follow-up Spirit Decomposition) but by that point he was low enough that Yuuka and Momiji could finish the job.
The Kedama Goddess was actually much easier for me since Nitori 2 shotted her with her 3D cannon (and she was a few levels lower at the time too).
-
What happens if you try challenging orochi without any character using the murakumo class on the first go?
-
Reimu gets equipped with it and replaces your party's leftmost slot.
-
Reimu gets equipped with it and replaces your party's leftmost slot.
This was not the case on my very first LoT2 Plus Disk run, where despite having Magician as his subclass, and never even touching the Murakumo subclass, Rinnosuke was the one who got the buff. Reimu wasn't in my party. I originally suspected it might be the first character down the list in your party, but I had Marisa in the same party, so unless it's really weird it might be related to BP as well? That or it's a check related to specific characters.
Swapping out Rinnosuke for a level 1 Reimu resulted in her being the Murakumo character, being dragged from the back.
Swapping out Rinnosuke for a level 1 Tenshi resulted in Yuugi, the character I had in the left-most slot at the end of the battle, getting the Murakumo buff.
So I imagine it's Reimu if she's in your party, and whoever is in the left slot otherwise.
-
Ah, I took someone else's word for that one and was wrong to have done so. Checking the JP wiki, it says that whoever was in your frontiline's leftmost slot at the start of the battle gets Murakumo's Blessing.
-
I believe Meiling's China Qigong is bugged (or mistranslated, but I think it's the former). Having 3 points in the skill, I noticed two things: the counter for the skill did not disappear after using Brilliant Light Gem or Mountain Breaker, and that Meiling did a little more damage with each Brilliant Light Gem to a B4F enemy, up to a certain point.
By testing with her solo vs. some Plus Disk enemies, I found that each use of Brilliant Light Gem *noticeably* increased her damage (And by which I mean it wasn't just standard damage variation), and that using Concentrate after attacking resulted in the maximum possible heal, and *then* removed the counter.
This means that the damage portion of China Qigong is a bonus only removed upon Concentrating -- meaning this passive is insane and her Awakening *doubling* the damage bonus means Meiling is actually beyond nuts.
And yes, I made sure she had 0% ATK buffs and her subclass was Strategist. She was completely alone.
Also of note, in the JP version and the most recent ENG translation, there is no actual counter for China Qigong -- it just shows up on the buff menu... thing.
-
Tried out China Qigong, and yeah it does seem to be bugged. Neither attacking nor concentrating removes it from the buff menu.
-
Tried out China Qigong, and yeah it does seem to be bugged. Neither attacking nor concentrating removes it from the buff menu.
It's being removed on Concentrate and resetting to the first stack for me. Are you sure you're checking with another character after concentrating? I'd imagine so, but I'm just making sure.
-
Yep, sorry. It does reset to first stack after concentrate; just that it never disappears from the buff menu even after concentrating.
-
Hey, I've been looking through these LoT2 threads for a couple of months now, and I wanted to say a few things, I'm not sure if they've already been answered, but here goes nothing:
Yuuka does indeed retain any form of Boost % through Extra Attack after the first cast, I gave her some namely buffs like Mari's DIY Border or the usual Herb of Awakening, she was fully MAG-boosted and it was the +Disk final boss (so as to do it with the highest HP possible so her Torturing Nature doesn't take noticeable effect yet), her damage was affected by the Boost effect through all EA procs.
So, awakened Yuuka's guaranteed double EA after Concentrate can make some curious interactions with Boost effects, I can confirm this since I awakened her.
-
A new Splatoon 2 update is coming alongside Monster Hunter World update. Guess we?re going to have to wait a little longer
-
Tried Awakened Yukari, and she's actually a pretty effective attacker now. Shikigami Plus has become a single target physical nuke, buffs decay slower on her, and enemy DEF is further decreased. Subbing Sorceror makes Hyperactive Flying Object do decent damage.
-
What is the best place to gain levels pre-20F bosses? Random encounters in the top two floors were irritating, so I used Rumia and Chen to avoid most of them, but of course now I'm severely underleveled (average level 74 when the boss recommended level says 87-88).
-
Abuse Aya/Yuyuko/Reisen combo for first turn instant death spam. Aya goes first and gives her turn to Yuyuko, Yuyuko then uses Flawless Nirvana to instant death everything. Reisen is there just to reduce their resistance to Instant death although it might be overkill with Nirvana's 100+% chance. Flawless Nirvana should death any enemy there that's not outright immune. Make sure you max Banquet of Regrets, MP boost and Nirvana if you can. Give Yuyuko some accuracy equip for the more evasive enemies. You might also be able to make Yuyuko outspeed most of the enemies if you put all her level ups and gear towards speed. In that case, you can use Guidance from Aya to save on MP. Or make Yuyuko a Monk and everyone else strategists for chances at first turns for her. If you have a spare MP boost book, give it to Aya so she can use Advent more before running out. Kill a few groups, return to town to heal and level. Repeat until you get up to a decent level. Most of those enemies are also weak to nature so you could put a good nature attacker in the last slot to clean up anyone that gets missed.
-
Honestly, you can probably beat both the 20F bosses at your current level. They're much easier then their 12F incarnations since the Magatama loses Black Universe and the Mirror is weak to SIL now. Once you've beaten them both, then the 20F depths is really good for grinding. All the encounters there are miniboss fights, so they're even fun compared to the Sky Fairy/Puppet Top filled groups you see elsewhere on 20F.
-
Honestly, you can probably beat both the 20F bosses at your current level. They're much easier then their 12F incarnations since the Magatama loses Black Universe and the Mirror is weak to SIL now. Once you've beaten them both, then the 20F depths is really good for grinding. All the encounters there are miniboss fights, so they're even fun compared to the Sky Fairy/Puppet Top filled groups you see elsewhere on 20F.
Oh, no doubt many players can, but I have no idea what I'm doing. As things stand, I used a variant of the trick suggested by Phen until I was just 3-4 levels below recommended. Then both bosses were defeated mostly by just throwing damage dealers at them and keeping Yuuka/Flandre from premature death. So much for strategy...
Puppet Top
These are perhaps the worst thing in the game so far. So annoying when they just target the 3rd or 4th slot right off the bat.
-
I've started a NG+, going through with the new people, trying them all out at a low level, and...The characters are of varying worth in a low level party. Surprisingly, some of them are pretty good, and others...eghhh...
Shou - Tragically garbage. Hungry Tiger is somewhat okay, but it has a horrendous delay, and her lower-than-others base attack does her no favors for that. Radiant Treasure Gun is awful until you can start seriously out-gearing the trash she fights, Dazzling Gold is at least okay but still too expensive, Aura of Justice is hot trash, and she has both low starting MP and trash MP recovery. Her gimmick also doesn't really work in the first stratum, given the low length of the fights, and her lack of MP recovery means she needs to be enabled by items you don't get for a long time. Her affinities also undermine her bulk all the way up until the fire stratum She's honestly just completely outclassed by Suika and Momiji.
Mamizou - Good bulk, good damage, great base MP, at least some MP recovery (albiet not great), and can work without her gimimck, at least until she gets it (at a fairly reasonable point too, since she just needs 25 for the base, then 12 to upgrade it).
Futo - Her AoE is kind of miserable, but she's got the base formulas she needs to at least help out, especially in bosses. The plates gimmick doesn't really work all that well though and requires a truly silly amount of skill points to get going, so she starts lagging behind around the second stratum.
Miko - Miko is completely and utterly terrible in a NG+ run. Her affinities are insane, shes got overall really good resists, but her base stats are bad, her library cost and level up difficulty are tremendous, and while she doesnt have bad MP issues, her spells hit for a fairly low amount of damage. This is, of course, because her passives are incredible, but tremendously expensive. You can probably still get away with lugging her around, since it's LoT2, but...ugh. She's also locked into the two worst elements because ~of course she is~
Kokoro - Kokoro has the usual composite attacker issue of not really having gear until the third stratum, and the issues of her father of wanting a super expensive list of passives to function. She's also got really lackluster stats, but at least a good library cost. Also, her character synergy is - also extremely passive hungry, go figure.
Tokiko - Needs all her reading passives, and has exceptionally sub par damage, with extreme MP issues. She can fish for DTH at least.
Koishi - Extremely solid in a NG+ run, possessing good damage, decent enough base MP (albiet with terrible recovery without dumping 24 SP), and she's not really reliant on her gimmick either.
Akyuu - Completely worthless until you get subclasses. After that point she's a tabula rasa, but you'll probably just use her as a nuke. Not the best before you get her fully online, but decent.
Overall, the plus disc characters should probably only be used in NG+ if you really like them, as most of them were seemingly not designed with NG+ in mind for one reason or another, and are on the whole very skill point hungry. You can, to some extent, alleviate these woes for *one* character with training manuals, but that's about it.
-
Yeah, all of the Plus Disc character's are mostly centered around a particular gimmick that takes a lot of skillpoints or even their awakening passives to actually work, so they basically suck in the main game.
-
Any news on 3peso?
-
It's been nearly a year and a month now, he's been utterly dark on his site and twitter, and nobody in the jp side of things has any clue as to his wherabouts either.
It's safe to say that the plus disc will go unfinished at this point.
Belated edit, but I gotta say that even if he is fine, kinda sucks to release a half finished product, promise post patch support to finish it, then bail. RIP monee.
-
A friend did do some checking in on that and got confirmation that
A.3peso is fine (so it's not like he got sick or fell off a balcony or anything)
B.Apparently there's been some r-rated dungeon games with art that looks suspiciously like his :V
But yeah definitely don't hold your breath on Plus. At this point it's pretty much just an "if he feels like it someday" sort of thing, and absolutely not guaranteed.
-
I mean to be fair, he's pulled disappearing acts like this before and then come back. He did it during Plus Disc's development, so I wouldn't entirely write off the patch.
...But yeah, until/unless he goes active on twitter again I'd say don't expect anything.
-
Someone told me it should be possible to one-shot Ame-no-Murakumo and I decided to give it a try myself (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x36A-SJ6dE). Probably old news, but it was a fun little exercise nonetheless.
-
So I just beat the big bad guy at the 26th floor in Plus Disk, and I was hoping it would let me do a New Game + with all the plus disk characters, but it looks like I'm straight out of luck for that! It still only lets me go up to Mari and Renko. Is there some other requirement I gotta beat to be able to play with the others? And if it seems like a long way to go, is there a save file or somesuch I can use to start with all the characters? I tried looking for one, but I can't seem to find it.
Thanks for any help!
-
So I just beat the big bad guy at the 26th floor in Plus Disk, and I was hoping it would let me do a New Game + with all the plus disk characters, but it looks like I'm straight out of luck for that! It still only lets me go up to Mari and Renko. Is there some other requirement I gotta beat to be able to play with the others? And if it seems like a long way to go, is there a save file or somesuch I can use to start with all the characters? I tried looking for one, but I can't seem to find it.
Thanks for any help!
If you have one file with all characters unlocked, you can copy the PCF01.ngd file of that folder onto the fresh save. I can upload one but not sure which site to host the file.
On another note, I started playing LoT1 then LoT2 back to back since last October. Read up from the 3rd thread up until present along the way. What a ride.
-
If you have one file with all characters unlocked, you can copy the PCF01.ngd file of that folder onto the fresh save. I can upload one but not sure which site to host the file.
On another note, I started playing LoT1 then LoT2 back to back since last October. Read up from the 3rd thread up until present along the way. What a ride.
Ah, I see! It's good to know that's how to do it.
...Unfortunately while trying to mess around in the game before I got this answer I saved over my plus disk file with all the characters ;_;
If you could maybe upload that file - or anyone else for that matter - I would really appreciate it! Mediafire, dropbox, just attaching it here, whatever works! I'd just really like to be able to start off with Kokoro and maybe Koishi in the squad and the thought of playing through the whole game again just to do that really demotivates me.
Edit: And I suppose just to put some gameplay related question in here, has anyone actually managed to rack Shou's rage counters high enough for them to matter in a fight? They seem cute to me, but it felt like by the time I got a relevant number to work with the boss was pretty much wasted already, or I just never wanted her on the frontline of the fight to begin with.
-
Yeah, Shou is kind of a sad character. Her rage counter would be great against some bosses in the main game, but she doesn't have the skill points to be good at that point. And by the Plus Disk, battles are over quickly enough that she can only get like five stacks. There might be a sweet spot in the postgame where she has skill points and boss fights drag on forever, but I'm not convinced that the rest of her skillset is good enough for her to be worth bringing.
-
Shou would have been potentially good in mega postgame content where there would inevitably be super long megabosses, but who knows if we'll ever get it, so.
-
Think it's most effective to think of Bishamonten's Rage as a secondary damage booster and focus primarily on her synergy skill with Rinnosuke and maybe Byakuren (for higher buff baselines + HP regen), if you would specifically want to use Shou. Easy 24% ATK/MAG increase + 100% buff baselines (until Byakuren's Sutra skills get nerfed for real, they're currently still 14%), which is about a 33% overall damage increase compared to normal (Strategist assumed of course), if you buffed Shou every turn (impractical, so in practice it's a bit better). This gives Shou reasonable damage, and it's not like Bishamonten's Rage stops existing. It's just that instead of looking at it like "I'm only at 3 out of a max of 100 counters", it's "free 9% more ATK".
I think the primary issue with Bishamonten's Rage is that, with such enormous potential in increasing damage, one would be inclined to feel that they "need" to stack it a lot to fully take advantage of it, when it's totally unnecessary to do so. It's really more like an improved Eye for an Eye, in that it's a convenient damage boost on an action (taking damage) that would occur whether or not the character had the skill. Even 3-5 counters is enough of an ATK increase to solidify it as a useful skill.
Besides that, Shredder and Refresh (the buff wiping attacks) reset Bishamonten's Rage, and chances are good the super bosses would utilize either of those moves, or another method to wipe buffs. I wouldn't count on being able to get a high counter on it against endgame bosses.
-
Ah, I see! It's good to know that's how to do it.
...Unfortunately while trying to mess around in the game before I got this answer I saved over my plus disk file with all the characters ;_;
If you could maybe upload that file - or anyone else for that matter - I would really appreciate it! Mediafire, dropbox, just attaching it here, whatever works! I'd just really like to be able to start off with Kokoro and maybe Koishi in the squad and the thought of playing through the whole game again just to do that really demotivates me.
Here you go. (http://www.mediafire.com/file/xie0dalgn7an753/save5.rar)
-
Is there a save for Laby 1 that's NG+ with all BP requirements pre-obtained?
I know I got a NG+ file a while ago that doesn't have the BP done and I think I would've gotten it from the OP so I dunno if someone made one elsewhere or anything but it'd be handy.
-
Think it's most effective to think of Bishamonten's Rage as a secondary damage booster and focus primarily on her synergy skill with Rinnosuke and maybe Byakuren
The problem with this is that Shou really isn't a particularly good character without accounting for Rage. She's got a farming move, and she's certainly passable enough with her synergies, but she's not actually... noteworthy for much of anything, unless there's time for Rage to build up.
-
Shou still has massive burnout issues, because her rage counter increases way too slowly. It'd be slow if it was 3% per turn regardless, but combined with needing to be taking damage, a lackluster set of affinities, shit base MP and shit MP recovery, a moderate library difficulty and highish level up difficulty, and good but not stellar base stats, and...
Really Shou's just a disaster all around. She is, in virtually every way, just a Worse Suika.
-
Shou certainly is a fairly average character due to the plethora of superior PHY attackers like Nitori, Yuugi, Meiling, and Tokiko, but it's not quite as bad as it's being made out to be. With her Rinnosuke synergy and Byakuren buff copies putting her buffs at 100%, her ATK is on par with Tenshi's with her Iku synergy, and she requires no external buffs to maintain that. Her biggest personal failing is that Hungry Tiger is simply not a strong spell card for her stats. It has the same damage formula as Tokiko's Youkai Yakuza Kick, but has 4000 delay compared to 6600, and Shou's ATK is far lower. With her Rinnosuke synergy skill, her ATK is a little bit lower than Tokiko's ATK at base, and Tokiko's looking at 20% more ATK with her Reimu/Marisa synergy and 25% more ATK post-Awakening, giving her about 50% more ATK to work with. Bishamonten's Rage can only do so much here when Shou's surrounded by these PHY attacking giants, more problematic is what she's working with in terms of stats and spells in the first place.
The MP thing at least is mostly a non-issue. Her default max MP is 30, but MP Orbs/Gems increase it by 10-20, and MP Boost skills increase it by a further 10-20, 30 in the super late parts of the endgame. She's presently looking at about 60-70 MP, which is enough for 20-23 Hungry Tiger uses without any external means of MP recovery like post-Awakening Sanae or Murakumo's Blessing. If her Byakuren Sutra copy skill worked with her post-Awakening MP recovery Sutra, then she would have effectively unlimited uses, but it doesn't do that unfortunately.
At any rate, Shou's MP is not that low. I mean, it's the same as Iku's and higher than Tenshi's (28), and honestly, most PHY attackers have the same or worse MP than she does. Her MP recovery certainly is bad, but with all the different methods to restore MP that are preferable to using Concentrate, it generally doesn't make a difference.
-
I think you guys are misunderstanding Shou, somewhat. As in, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think she was never meant to be a competitive attacker, on par with other PHY-oriented attackers like Yuugi or Nitori. Personally, I see Shou more as a variation of Nazrin - i.e. a char focused on improving your exp/gold acquisition rate. Nobody really expects Nazrin to dish out competitive damage on bosses, and you similarly shouldn't expect Shou to do so. In fact, it's almost serendipitous that both Rinnosuke and Nazrin (chars Shou synergizes with) also happen to have "grinding skills" of their own. Sure, you might wonder what Bishamonten Counter is there for, then... but Shou would be far from the only char in this game to have somewhat counterproductive or unfocused abilities.
In short, if you're using Shou, you shouldn't be using her for Bishamonten Counter or her various offensive abilities. You should use her for Radiant Treasure Gun (and her other grind bonuses).
-
I would be inclined to agree if post-Awakening Nazrin didn't have silly high damage. Like, she's actually a pretty strong attacker, particularly for CLD where there's little competition.
-
I would be inclined to agree if post-Awakening Nazrin didn't have silly high damage. Like, she's actually a pretty strong attacker, particularly for CLD where there's little competition.
It's true that there're not many CLD attackers (compared, say, to SPI or DRK attackers), but unfortunately for Nazrin, Nitori is better in almost every way with its Kappa Waterfall, thanks to a CLD boosting ability and Maintenance. The Moriya group also provides extremely strong CLD attacks, both alone and even moreso when fielded together. Heck, even Miko with Southern Cross prolly outdamages Nazrin, thanks to Miko's own item doubling ability. And unlike Nazrin, none of these characters rely on RNG for their damage output.
I mean, Nazrin is definitely usable, but still far from a top tier damage dealer. If she lacked those grinding abilities, I doubt she'd deserve any consideration at all.
-
Ran a quick damage test on this as an example, using Iku 540 as the EXP base and library levels at 600/60, with 3x MGL + Tokugawa for equipment, and ATK/MAG Second Boost, with Murakumo's Blessing as the subclass. Nazrin has her Byakuren buff copy skill for 100% buff baseline and her base MAG increasing skill, while Nitori has her +30% CLD damage skill and Maintenance, both have Murakumo's Blessing's damage boosting skill active. I only did one test for each, but I can provide math for the Small Kedama and higher DEF/MND examples as well, if this is insufficient as an example.
Nazrin
[attach=1][attach=2]
Nitori
[attach=3][attach=4]
Nazrin's Awakening roughly doubles her damage on average (I forgot how to calculate Extra Attack's average increase, so I'm just taking the EN wiki on its word for that), and she can benefit from Nitori's 30% CLD boost if they're both on the frontline, so her CLD damage potential considerably exceeds Nitori's on average. Problem is that, yeah, it's RNG-centric and therefore unreliable, but just going off the averages, Nazrin can be pretty silly.
And this isn't getting into what she can do with Start of Heavenly Demise.
-
I think that the main issue is that enemies with at least decent MND will likely lower the damage on Nazrin's CLD spell more than a decent DEF would do the same on Nitori's CLD spell. Also, Nitori has Overheating to boost her damage as well, so there's that to consider.
Honestly, I think that Nazrin would of benefited more from Piercing Attack and Instant Attack than from Extra Attack and Effective Formation Switch. The former to deal consistent damage(especially for the CLD spell) and the latter to synergize with her buff copy skill and to cut out the delay between switching in and attacking, but that's just me nitpicking and all that. Apologies for that.
-
Does endless corridor stop at 100f?
-
That is a thing, but it's not considerable. I'll take 1m DEF/MND as an example to math it out. It's been a long time since I did any math for this game, so I'm going to go through each step for ease of reading on both the reader and my own side.
Damage = (Attack Power - T.Defense Power) * Multiplier * (100 / T.Affinity) * Random Number (any number between 0.9 and 1.1)
Affinity will be 100, random number will be 1.
Nazrin:
Attack Power = MAG * MAG Buff * Spell MAG Modifier
MAG = 531,047
MAG buff = 100% (2x)
Nazrin Pendulum = 1.1x
Attack Power = 531,047 * 2 * 1.1 = 1,168,303
T.Defense Power = T.MND * Spell MND Modifier
T.MND = 1,000,000
Nazrin Pendulum = 0.5x
T.Defense Power = 1,000,000 * 0.5 = 500,000
Multipliers
Nazrin Pendulum = 2.2x
Level 5 Spell Card = 1.2x
Strategist Buff = 1.1x
Murakumo's Blessing = 1.16x * 1.16x * 1.16x
Total Multiplier = 2.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.16 * 1.16 * 1.16 (it's easier to write this than the result)
Damage = (1,168,303 - 500,000) * 2.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.16 * 1.16 * 1.16 = 3,029,311
Factoring in Extra Attack + Wits of the Tiny Clever General, there's roughly a 95% damage increase on average, which puts it at 5,907,156
Nitori:
Attack Power = ATK * ATK Buff * Spell ATK Modifier
ATK = 748,725
ATK Buff = 86% (1.86x)
Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall = 1.1x
Attack Power = 748,725 * 1.86 * 1.1 = 1,531,891
T.Defense Power = T.ATK * Spell DEF Modifier
T.ATK = 1,000,000
Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall = 0.5x
T.Defense Power = 1,000,000 * 0.5 = 500,000
Multipliers
Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall = 1.9x
Level 5 Spell Card = 1.2x
Ability to Manipulate Water = 1.3x
Strategist Buff = 1.1x
Murakumo's Blessing = 1.16x * 1.16x * 1.16x
Total Multiplier = 1.9 * 1.2 * 1.3 * 1.1 * 1.16 * 1.16 * 1.16
Damage = (1,531,891 - 500,000) * 1.9 * 1.2 * 1.3 * 1.1 * 1.16 * 1.16 * 1.16 = 5,251,443
Nazrin: 5,907,156
Nitori: 5,251,443
The damage gap is a lot lower, but Nazrin is still higher by a decent margin (about 12%), and can benefit from more multipliers, since she can get Nitori's CLD damage boost, while Nitori is already using it. Overheating is a thing, but you have to avoid switching out Nitori in order to use it, and with 4,000 delay, that slows her down compared to switching with an Instant Attack character and does not necessarily increase DPS.
Though, the point I'm trying to convey with all of this is that Nazrin is an amazing attacker, based on RNG averages at least. She doesn't necessarily have to be better than Nitori to be good at attacking. Maybe I should have used WND as an example instead...
-
Nitori is still the superior attacker because !!Maintenance!!, but that's because Nitori is ALWAYS the superior attacker. Nazrin's damage is pretty terrible before Awakening though, without question. She's probably not unusable before then, but she's definitely not competitive with Patchouli or Kanoko, who are the other big magical CLD attackers.
-
Well, here's a different example then.
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
[attach=4][attach=5][attach=6]
This is with Awakening for Iku, but only regular MAG Boost. Nazrin actually has about the same amount of MAG as Iku with the Byakuren Sutra duplication, the differences in their Start of Heavenly Demise are mostly due to damage variance.
Iku: 588,423 * 1.86 = 1,094,466
Nazrin: 531,047 * 2 = 1,062,094
Iku has 3% more MAG, admittedly she'd have a few % more with MAG Second Boost. It's difficult to afford it right now though. Still, with Nazrin getting a good 85% or so more damage via Awakening, it's a no contest.
oh wait, I'm an idiot, Iku does have MAG Second Boost, it's MP Second Boost she didn't have.
-
Unless I'm misreading, you're assuming 100% buff for Nazrin, but not for Nitori. Why? I mean, with a Renko + Maribel defensive core you can buff Nitori to 100% easily, and Strategist buff means you're gonna keep it at 70%+ buff consistently. Are you sure that, factoring this, Nazrin still surpasses Nitori in damage output? If so, I'd be sincerely surprised.
EDIT: Also, while in an ideal world you'd have 3X MGL on everybody, in the real world you simply don't (or, well, you can finish the existing game WAY before then). And if you discount MGL, there're many more good items for physical attackers (such as Scourge or Ringil) than for special attackers (who mostly use Flower Blade and Blue Rod)
EDIT2: Just checked - yeah you assumed 86% Atk buff, which is fair. But as you noticed yourself, she is very RNG-reliant. Now, if this were, say, World of Warcraft or some other game where you throw out 200+ attacks on the same boss per battle, you could work off % averages like you do. But given how fast TH battles are, on average (even boss battles), I'm not sure you can rely just as much on average results.
Furthermore, there are still a few things which you did not seem to consider.
1) Nitori requires a lot less support than Nazrin. In other words, Nitori can be slotted into just about any team and it will perform amazingly. As for Nazrin, she pretty much requires Byakuren, otherwise Extra Attack will chew away her own buffs in no time (I think?).
2) Nitori's Waterfall attacks all, not just one target, and also carries a DEF debuff (in fact, many other CLD attacks from other chars, such as Cirno, Suwako, and Kanako, also do)
3) Nitori is significantly bulkier than Nazrin, thanks to Maintenance - not only in terms of sheer stats but also in terms of ailments and resistances
4) If you are into postgame content, "Switch and nuke" playstyle is a lot less good than in the main-game because, due to how action frames work. I noticed this most clearly in TH1, where by the time you reach around lvl 3000 each frame ticks for 2000+ ATB, but you can notice it even in TH2's lategame
5) Perhaps most importantly, Nitori doesn't require to be awakened, in order to achieve such a level of power. And there are quite a few chars who can reach truly unreal levels of power when awakened (such as Maribel and Miko). With only 7 gems available, I'm not sure I'd want to use one on Nazrin (perhaps, if the game were complete and we had infinite awakening gems... but then again, we'd also get items which would increase Maintenance's margin even more).
As you hinted, Nazrin prolly got less competition as a WND attacker - though even there, Awakened Suika could end up being more powerful, and Iku also carries more utility. And both Iku and Suika, I think, are still bulkier than Nazrin.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ofc, in the end, the differences are such that, except for a few outliers (like Nitori's absurd Megawatt Gun), most chars and attacks are quite balanced, so you won't see major offensive differences between each other - that's a testament to how more balanced (at least in this sense) the game is compared to TH1 (where the gulf between good and bad chars was absolutely huge).
-
Well, if you're counting Scourge and Ringil (Ringil isn't very strong anyway though), you should count Tupsimati too, which is MP+6, HP/DEF/MND+300%, MAG+800%, MYS/SPI/DRK+99. That's way better than Scourge's ATK+800%, DEF+400%, PHY+100.
I also wasn't trying to suggest a switching attacker playstyle, but switching a character in with Instant Attack, and then switching Nitori/Nazrin back in, to set their ATB to 7500. This would be unnecessary for Nazrin if her ATB is 2000+ per tick, as Nazrin Pendulum has 5500 delay, but Nitori's Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall has 4000 delay, so this would still speed her up. Though with 2000+ ATB ticks, staying in for the sake of Overheating stacking would probably be preferable. And of course, Nazrin would need to be Awakened...but that was the premise of what I was saying in the first place, that Nazrin becomes a strong attacker post-Awakening. So it seems kind of silly to bring it up as a detrimental point.
The numbered items don't really have to do with Nazrin's damage output either, aside from bringing up that it is RNG reliant, which I acknowledge is its primary flaw. I, personally, prefer to assume that RNG will always be unfavorable, so I would not value Nazrin's potential. But that doesn't change that, on average, Nazrin's damage output is excellent, and she has 4 different elements that she can competently use to strike weaknesses (PHY/WND/CLD/SPI [Start of Heavenly Demise]). How to look at RNG is up to the player, I believe, but Nazrin can certainly be expected to be a primary attacking character, despite the whole item farming angle of her character.
Though regardless, I would like to address the numbered items anyway.
1) While Nitori can act as a solo character, Nazrin relying on Byakuren is not necessarily a negative characteristic, since you would want to optimize your damage output, and Byakuren helps Nazrin do that. Nitori would need a character to buff her regardless, and she would continually need buff maintenance, while Byakuren can do anything on the frontline and Nazrin will be at 100% buffs at all times simply because Byakuren is present. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Nitori's solo ability allows her to contribute to Nazrin, since Nitori holds the +30% CLD boosting skill, which makes Nitori the strongest damage boosting character available to put on the frontline with Nazrin. One could have Byakuren buffing Nitori, and the two of them attacking with their CLD spells. This can be further increased with Akyuu's 50% Boost spell card from her Awakening and potentially the 16% weakness boosting skill.
2) While Nitori's Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall is a multi-target spell card, so far the majority of bosses in Plus Disk's endgame are single targets, and Nazrin is still superior for single-targets granted ordinary RNG. Though this also makes Nitori superior for random encounters, Nazrin has her item farming skills (then again, Nitori does too, post-Awakening) and Extra Steps to take turns after defeating an enemy. The DEF debuff on it also doesn't add much damage, though it does add some, that is true.
3) Nitori is a lot bulkier, but due to how Maintenance works, she's losing out on more damage by taking up affinity/status boosting equipment, so that's not a 100% pro. Still, this is the biggest advantage Nitori has as a bulky attacker, even if it doesn't have to do with how much damage Nazrin can do. For what it's worth, Nazrin has 14% HP regen that Nitori does not have, and 150 VOI resistance that Nitori can never increase with any kind of equipment.
4) and 5) were covered already so I'll skip those.
Regarding the comparison with Awakening Suika, keep in mind that Nazrin's Rare Metal Detector has 6800 delay, so she attacks more rapidly than Suika does with Instant Attack switching, and Suika needs 100% HP to get the 20% damage boost, so she requires more maintenance from multi-target attacks. Though honestly, with how much Iku can demolish the game, that Nazrin can be favorably compared with her speaks enough for her damage output. Suika's damage bonuses are more practical to utilize in practice than on paper, so I'm not going to try to calculate how much stronger (if she is stronger) at WND damage she is compared to Nazrin, but Nazrin is still a very strong WND attacker regardless, whether she's #1 or #2.
As for the comparison with Iku and Suika's bulk, I haven't checked Suika, but Nazrin is fine compared to Iku. As you can see in the stat pictures, Iku and Nazrin have nearly the same amount of HP under equal circumstances (Iku has 5% more HP), but their DEF is almost identical. Iku has much higher MND (about 22.5% more), and she can gain 40% more DEF/MND with her Tenshi synergy skill, but DEF/MND is nearly worthless in Plus Disk. Like I calculated for the Serpent of Chaos' damage, the difference between its Direct Attack and Rasetsu Fist on max HP Tenshi was about 5% more damage, and that was over 100K DEF. Besides that, Nazrin has 100% DEF/MND buffs at all times with Byakuren's presence on the field, 14% HP regen, 150 VOI resistance, and Eyes that Perceive Reality to ignore enemy ATK/MAG buffs (something most Corridor bosses use, though idk if the special ones like Abyss Reimu and Abyss Rinnosuke are ignored by it or not). Her affinities are also superior. She's looking at two affinities at 76 for weaknesses, while Iku has 3 affinities at 75 and one at 90. The 150 VOI resistance is especially important here, as VOI attacks are always the most dangerous in the game, and Nazrin takes 33% less damage from them.
Also, I forgot about this, but Maintenance doesn't work with the Divine Falchion, which is kind of important. It's still stronger than the Tokugawa Statue, but Nitori loses more stats by using it than Nazrin does. She's still overall bulkier and everything, this just affects the degree of bulk and how much more damage Nazrin can do in comparison.
--
I somewhat feel that the meaning in bringing up Nazrin's damage output was a bit lost in the direction this topic went in, as it was about Shou's inferiority as an attacker. Maybe, instead of bringing up that Nazrin is pretty much competitive (with RNG) with top tier characters, I should have simply pointed out that Nazrin far surpasses Shou in terms of PHY damage. Regardless though, my underlying point was that Shou's farming related skills can't be used to justify her having lowish damage output, as Nazrin is very much competitive with high level damage dealers, and totally outclasses Shou at PHY damage. Even pre-Awakening Nazrin has superior PHY damage output to Shou with her Rinnosuke synergy skill.
-
Well, if you're counting Scourge and Ringil (Ringil isn't very strong anyway though), you should count Tupsimati too, which is MP+6, HP/DEF/MND+300%, MAG+800%, MYS/SPI/DRK+99. That's way better than Scourge's ATK+800%, DEF+400%, PHY+100.
You are right, but Tupsimati is extremely rare, whereas Scourge (at least from my experience) is fairly more common. But, examples aside, my point was more general - for any given "tier" of items, ATK-based items tend to be better (and there are more of them to choose from) than MAG-based ones, at least for attackers. So, for the sake of playthrough, physical attackers do tend to be slightly easier to equip (again, from my experience).
As for the rest... yeah, my bad - I mean, I do get what you are trying to say here. Though while it's true that Shou might be lacking, his combined "grinding" bonuses are still quite impressive, so I still think she's far from a worthless char - well, except from the fact that TH2 post-game hardly needs grinding in the first place to be completed (except maybe items from chests in the corridor, which Shou doesn't rly help with anyway). Now, if only we could use Shou in TH1... :-)
-
It's a little bit of a topic change, but regarding Tupsimati's rarity, I personally acquired 10 via random treasure in the Infinite Corridor, and 9 Scourge (+1 from the 30f boss). Meanwhile I have 5 Medicine of Life, which should be equally rare.
I'm not totally sure how the Infinite Corridor's treasures work, but I've noticed "patterns" where I would frequently get the same batch of items throughout an entire load, which matches with what I've observed with the enemy spawns as well. Only a somewhat diverse array of them, but still never encountering at least 1/3rd of the possible enemies throughout several hours of playing. If this is the case, then that would explain why some items are far more common than others during a trip to the Infinite Corridor. Treasure drop rates may be altered on a per load basis, or even have some items locked out entirely.
This would explain any considerable differences observed in item rarity, but it's still only a personal observation. Still, it might be useful information, or at least something to have in mind.
-
So I bought and played THL2 back when it first released but only up until beating the last boss, never did any post game stuff. Now that english patch and plus disk exist I decided to replay it and go for gold this time. What's all this I hear about Plus Disk being unfinished? Does it just stop in the middle of the game or something? Am I wasting my time replaying this game?
-
It's supposed to go up to 30F and down to B11F, but right now it only goes to 27F and B10F respectively, so there are chunks of stuff that we don't have yet. On the other hand, plus disk in LoT2 does have its own storyline which IS properly completed between 26F and B7F so you can't say that it's incomplete either.
-
Guys, I need your advice on team building. Right now, I'm using the following team:
Row 1: Sanae [Sorcerer] / Reimu [Strategist] / Miko [Transcendent] / Futo [Transcendent]
Row 2: Renko [Strategist] / Iku [Sorcerer] / Maribel [Sorcerer] / Tenshi [Transcendent]
Row 3: Kasen [Strategist] / Yuugi [Transcendent] / Suika [Transcendent] / Nitori [Transcendent]
The idea is obviously to take advantage of as many synergies as possible to deal massive damage on bosses and random encounters alike. However, I was wondering if I'd actually improve the team by replacing Iku and Tenshi with Kogasa and Parsee. Sure, Tenshi and Iku are good, but I already have plenty of SPI-based attackers (Miko especially), NAT-based attackers (Yuugi and Suika), and WND-based attackers (Kasen and Suika). Ofc, I don't lack DRK-based damage either (Kasen, Maribel, Futo, eventually Miko as well), but Kogasa and Parsee seem to bring a lot more to the table for Maribel especially (DRK-based boost to her Chaotic Quadruple Border), while Maribel excels at "enabling" those two with her own TRR-inducing attack. And, while I've not worked out all the math yet, it seems that Kogasa and Parsee (especially Parsee) have multipliers which blow Iku's and Tenshi's ones out of the water completely.
Ofc, as others noted, DRK is not as good in Plus Disk content as it is in the main game... but does it really matter when you're working with a 625% ATK - 125% DEF nuke, powered by stat buffs, Final Blow (32%, 64% if awakened), Flames of Jealousy (another 30%), and Jealousy Manipulation (I dunno the math for this one)?
--------------------------------------
EDIT: Note, the original plan for awakenings was to awaken, in order:
Maribel, Miko, Futo, Yuugi, Suika, Kasen, Tenshi
With the new set up, though, I'd prolly go with the following awakening order:
Maribel, Miko, Kogasa, Parsee, Futo, Yuugi, Suika
As for subclasses, I'd prolly give Transcendent to both Kogasa and Parsee (maybe Warrior on Kogasa to power up Drizzling Large Raindrops? Doesn't sound worth it, tbh). I have no idea of who to give Murakumo's Blessing to, though (possibly Yuugi for the MP regeneration and an extra SPI physical attack)
-
Even if Iku/Tenshi's damaging roles are kind of redundent, Iku is still an excellent buffer and Tenshi's buff removal is pretty useful in Plus Disk. Kogasa and Parsee can deal huge damage, but you've already got several people who deal huge PHY/DRK/CLD damage. Plus, unlike Iku/Tenshi, they don't really have any utility you don't already have covered.
Warrior on Kogasa is pretty good. Without it, she has exactly one good element: DRK. With Warrior, she becomes a good attacker for FIR and CLD as well. As for Murakumo's Blessing, there's really no bad choice. Just pick your favourite character and laugh as they destroy everything[Or laugh as they help everyone els destroy everything[.
-
IMO, adding an Extra Attacker instead would be better to allow you to reduce delays, other than that I would say you have enough attackers as it is, so adding some extra support options with characters like Akyuu or Aya may be a good idea.
Edit: sorry, I meant an Instant Attacker, not en extra attacker.
-
Even if Iku/Tenshi's damaging roles are kind of redundent, Iku is still an excellent buffer and Tenshi's buff removal is pretty useful in Plus Disk. Kogasa and Parsee can deal huge damage, but you've already got several people who deal huge PHY/DRK/CLD damage. Plus, unlike Iku/Tenshi, they don't really have any utility you don't already have covered.
Well, the fact is that Renko and Maribel already cover those roles pretty well on their own - Renko has one of the best buff spellcards in the game (Charge), and Maribel has one of the best anti-buff abilities in the game (Ability to See Boundaries). I've seen plenty of fights vs buffing bosses where my entire team died except Mari (who took, like, next to 0 damage from everything) and Renko (who has massive defenses + evasion and can tank just about everything the game can muster). Heck, there are times where Tenshi removing buffs is actually something I do NOT want to do (for example, vs Ame-no-Murakumo) because of Maribel.
You are right about the fact Kogasa/Parsee don't really bring anything other than damage to the table, but at this point, it becomes a matter of what I actually need in the first place. As far as elements go, I have pretty much every element covered except Fire, which in this game unfortunately doesn't have any really standalone strong nuke besides Flandre. And I have only 2 slots free I can really spare, since Reimu, Sanae, Miko + Futo, Renko + Maribel, Nitori and the oni family are kinda non-negotiable for me (at the very least, I can't think of better choices for boss battles in general, except for some minor niches).
One possibility could be of employing Kanako and Suwako to complete the Moriya family, but neither of the two are especially strong on their own without the kin boost, and with several lategame bosses having the "team scramble" ability, I'd prefer my synergies to be more versatile. For example, while Yuugi prefers being slotted with the other oni, her PHY damage boost synergizes with Futo as well. Similarly, Renko and Maribel (and, to a lesser extent, Reimu and Sanae) can support just about any two random characters. Both Nitori and Miko are fierce attackers on their own, as long as they're boosted, and the latter can debuff the opponent as well.
(Also, I fully get it that PD content is currently not all that difficult and I might be trying too hard for what it is, but what can I say? I like to experiment, and I'm an inveterate perfectionist)
Warrior on Kogasa is pretty good. Without it, she has exactly one good element: DRK. With Warrior, she becomes a good attacker for FIR and CLD as well. As for Murakumo's Blessing, there's really no bad choice. Just pick your favourite character and laugh as they destroy everything[Or laugh as they help everyone els destroy everything.
Well, there are some chars where it honestly would feel wasted (like, say, Reimu or Miko). As the description on site says, the best thing to do would be to give it to a char with naturally high stats (especially MAG) and a lack of good personal spellcards. Most of my current party members either are physical attackers (and have stronger attacks than Murakumo Slash) or have are magic attackers but have a SPI-based attack already (Sanae, Reimu, Miko) or better attacks to use (Maribel). Literally, the only realistic candidate I have as it is would be Iku, and she sounds far from the most exciting user of the subclass to me.
IMO, adding an Extra Attacker instead would be better to allow you to reduce delays, other than that I would say you have enough attackers as it is, so adding some extra support options with characters like Akyuu or Aya may be a good idea.
The only Extra Attacker I could consider as a standalone option is Yuuka Kazami (who, by the way, might also make some decent use of Murakumo's spellcards). But even with her high stats, she lacks %-based ability boosts of her own (such as kinship boosts, or stuff like Kogasa's TRR boost) besides Tormenting Nature, so I'm not sure her damage output would be as good as one can hope (it certainly wasn't in the main game, though that was largely because of Yuuka's poor defense piercing so I'm not 100% sure).
As for Aya, I've considered to use her - maybe alongside Momiji and Nitori to take advantage of their awakening. But that is basically incompatible with the original plan of an awakened Oni team, so I'd have to decide which of the two is better. In the main game, the Oni were definitely better (largely because Yuugi especially trounced nearly everything with Knockout in Three Steps), but maybe in the postgame Momiji and Aya could do more damage over time due to their immense speed and low delay attacks (combined with the fact defense piercing is not as crucial in the postgame as it is in the main game). Plus, while a Nitori with +30% physical damage (from Yuugi) is fun, a Nitori with +42% to all stats (courtesy of his awakening) could be really fun. But that brings up again the point of what happens when the team is scrambled by Second Sun and similar bosses (on their own, the Oni are much more powerful and useful than Aya, Momiji or Hina).
-
I'd consider Pheonix Spread Wings to be a FIR nuke, at least in the plus disk. 312.5% ATK is simply an absurd multiplier, especially against the defense-light bosses of Plus Disk[And remember that this can be boosted by 30% by Warrior!]. And Chen's ATK isn't bad at all, even without her Yakumo Clan synergy. Plus, even if you're not going to be attacking with her, Chen makes everyone else quicker because of Instant Attack. I'd definitely add Chen to your party over Kogasa.
-
The only Extra Attacker I could consider as a standalone option is Yuuka Kazami (who, by the way, might also make some decent use of Murakumo's spellcards).
I think what he meant was an instant attacker. If you switch someone with an instant attacker, that instant attacker can then switch their self back out with the previous person to instantly bring their bar up.
As for Aya, I've considered to use her - maybe alongside Momiji and Nitori to take advantage of their awakening. But that is basically incompatible with the original plan of an awakened Oni team, so I'd have to decide which of the two is better. In the main game, the Oni were definitely better (largely because Yuugi especially trounced nearly everything with Knockout in Three Steps), but maybe in the postgame Momiji and Aya could do more damage over time due to their immense speed and low delay attacks (combined with the fact defense piercing is not as crucial in the postgame as it is in the main game). Plus, while a Nitori with +30% physical damage (from Yuugi) is fun, a Nitori with +42% to all stats (courtesy of his awakening) could be really fun. But that brings up again the point of what happens when the team is scrambled by Second Sun and similar bosses (on their own, the Oni are much more powerful and useful than Aya, Momiji or Hina).
Aya's support for turns is amazing since she's so ridiculously fast. Aya doesn't even need to be dealing damage to be effective since she can double or more someone's turns. Even when spamming advent, she'll likely get 2-3 turns more than anyone else other than the person she's supporting. And at the same time she's helping everyone else get steadily more turns from her passive party speed buff. If you're only using her for support, just build her as tanky and fast as possible and watch the turns come pouring in. Give her magician for mp longevity and I doubt she'll run out of mp before the enemy is dead. Alternatively, herbalist for applying herb of awakening to multiple people quickly and buff upkeep or strategist for constant damage and defense increase. Her first turn passive also helps a lot with random encounters, letting your slower sweepers instantly move.
Also, try not to get too hung up on taking advantage of family synergy bonuses. Many characters can do their job just as well alone as with their synergy partners, if not better due to support options from non synergy characters, like Akyuu or someone with a element damage increase skill.
Well, the fact is that Renko and Maribel already cover those roles pretty well on their own - Renko has one of the best buff spellcards in the game (Charge),
I prefer Iku's buff style since it's a massive attack buff, almost twice that of Renko's, and you don't need defense buff if the boss itself is dead. The delay on it is also much better than Renko's, unless you use Aya to negate it I suppose, and the downside on it is completely negate-able with paralysis resistance and Iku's own passive. However, since you seem to be set on using multiple attackers instead of just supporting one, I can see Renko possibly being better in that regard. Also, it's not exactly bad to have multiple characters that can deal the same element. It allows you to double up on attacking boss weaknesses or as insurance in case one or the other goes down unexpectedly. Iku's defense debuff and paralysis infliction can also be extremely helpful in some fights.
Well, there are some chars where it honestly would feel wasted (like, say, Reimu or Miko). As the description on site says, the best thing to do would be to give it to a char with naturally high stats (especially MAG) and a lack of good personal spellcards. Most of my current party members either are physical attackers (and have stronger attacks than Murakumo Slash) or have are magic attackers but have a SPI-based attack already (Sanae, Reimu, Miko) or better attacks to use (Maribel). Literally, the only realistic candidate I have as it is would be Iku, and she sounds far from the most exciting user of the subclass to me.
I'd put it on whoever has the best chance at hitting boss weakness to further multiply their damage against it. You might be forgetting that one of Murakumo's passives is a massive 48% damage increase(or more depending on how it calculates). This makes it useful for any attacker even if they already have overlapping elements or better spellcards.
You could also just treat a character slot or two as bonus slots that you switch out according to the boss you'll be fighting. Tomes of reincarnation are easy to get in plus disk and are infinite in supply.
-
Here's a survey question for you guys: how often do you do skill resets? I tend to milk the feature for all it's worth, switching from "for randoms" setup consisting of the two experience skills, drop boosters, "on defeat" skills and monks everywhere to setups that are more boss appropriate when I do an end-of-floor boss sweep, then switch back for the next floor, but I always felt that the switching are very irksome since the interface isn't too streamlined for that kind of frequent changes, and I'm not sure if I'm just going too much overboard about it.
-
I don't do skill resets that often. If I'm saving up points for an expensive skill, then I'll put the skill points in other things and then reset once I'm high enough level for the skill I want. Sometimes I'll switch subclasses for a boss, like when I want Sakuya to have Iron Mountain Charge instead of Explosive Flame Sword, but I usually don't bother.
The experience skills I just don't touch, period. I hate everything about them.
-
I think what he meant was an instant attacker. If you switch someone with an instant attacker, that instant attacker can then switch their self back out with the previous person to instantly bring their bar up.
Aya's support for turns is amazing since she's so ridiculously fast. Aya doesn't even need to be dealing damage to be effective since she can double or more someone's turns. Even when spamming advent, she'll likely get 2-3 turns more than anyone else other than the person she's supporting. And at the same time she's helping everyone else get steadily more turns from her passive party speed buff. If you're only using her for support, just build her as tanky and fast as possible and watch the turns come pouring in. Give her magician for mp longevity and I doubt she'll run out of mp before the enemy is dead. Alternatively, herbalist for applying herb of awakening to multiple people quickly and buff upkeep or strategist for constant damage and defense increase. Her first turn passive also helps a lot with random encounters, letting your slower sweepers instantly move.
Also, try not to get too hung up on taking advantage of family synergy bonuses. Many characters can do their job just as well alone as with their synergy partners, if not better due to support options from non synergy characters, like Akyuu or someone with a element damage increase skill.
I'm personally not a fan of pure support/switching characters, because while they speed up the battle in ATB terms, they tend to slow it down in "real time" terms. Personally, I'd rather take a few hits from the enemy if it means I can finish it in 3 mins instead of 5, which is why my team is generally built for a "stay in" playstyle. Furthermore, that nearly every member is bulky and powerful enough to stay in and attack also means that whoever Second Sun (or other bosses) switches in with its ability can "do something".
As for the family synergy, I kinda agree that there're other kinds of synergy as well, though it doesn't change the fact that you should seek SOME kind of synergy when you can.
I prefer Iku's buff style since it's a massive attack buff, almost twice that of Renko's, and you don't need defense buff if the boss itself is dead. The delay on it is also much better than Renko's, unless you use Aya to negate it I suppose, and the downside on it is completely negate-able with paralysis resistance and Iku's own passive. However, since you seem to be set on using multiple attackers instead of just supporting one, I can see Renko possibly being better in that regard. Also, it's not exactly bad to have multiple characters that can deal the same element. It allows you to double up on attacking boss weaknesses or as insurance in case one or the other goes down unexpectedly. Iku's defense debuff and paralysis infliction can also be extremely helpful in some fights.
Actually, Renko's buff is 42% (vs Iku's 68%) at level 5, and if you consider that it buffs speed as well, the impact is quite noticeable. Also yes, the defensive buff DOES matter - on some bosses, at least. Also yeah, I honestly don't see much reason in going "all in" on just one attacker when you can easily support 2-3 depending on the situation (typically, 2 + Maribel as healer and "mini herbalist", but sometimes Mari can also go on the offense too). Again, being able to support two attackers so easily is one of the things which, in my eyes, make Renko the best buffer in the game.
I'd put it on whoever has the best chance at hitting boss weakness to further multiply their damage against it. You might be forgetting that one of Murakumo's passives is a massive 48% damage increase(or more depending on how it calculates). This makes it useful for any attacker even if they already have overlapping elements or better spellcards.
You could also just treat a character slot or two as bonus slots that you switch out according to the boss you'll be fighting. Tomes of reincarnation are easy to get in plus disk and are infinite in supply.
Three Swords of the Divine Era consumes massive amounts of MP, I'd personally not use it except maybe on a row specifically designed to support it. And even then, you should weigh whether it's a better option than just using multiple attackers.
To be honest, whenever I use Murakumo's Blessing, the only skills I take besides the attacking ones are the HP and MP regeneration ones. Power of the Supreme Ruler is generally not very productive if you can already keep the entire line fully buffed with Renko, and as discussed above Three Swords of the Divine Era is too MP intensive - both for the Infinite corridor and for random encounters in the main dungeon.
Here's a survey question for you guys: how often do you do skill resets? I tend to milk the feature for all it's worth, switching from "for randoms" setup consisting of the two experience skills, drop boosters, "on defeat" skills and monks everywhere to setups that are more boss appropriate when I do an end-of-floor boss sweep, then switch back for the next floor, but I always felt that the switching are very irksome since the interface isn't too streamlined for that kind of frequent changes, and I'm not sure if I'm just going too much overboard about it.
I do as little skill resets as I can, preferring to keep a set up (gear, character selection, skills, stat bonuses) which works in as many situations as possible, since as you hinted, resetting skills is annoying and a waste of time in most situations. I personally prefer "efficient" runs over "min-max" runs.
-
Here's a survey question for you guys: how often do you do skill resets? I tend to milk the feature for all it's worth, switching from "for randoms" setup consisting of the two experience skills, drop boosters, "on defeat" skills and monks everywhere to setups that are more boss appropriate when I do an end-of-floor boss sweep, then switch back for the next floor, but I always felt that the switching are very irksome since the interface isn't too streamlined for that kind of frequent changes, and I'm not sure if I'm just going too much overboard about it.
I reset for every single boss and farming session, setting up all the characters I intend to use for that specific role. I also change gear and level up bonuses whenever I do this, and for bosses, I run damage calculations to determine the best setups to withstand and inflict damage (ideally, with Iku/Tenshi in the damage dealing role, as a personal preference).
It is a little time consuming, but repetition makes it easier to remember and run through it more quickly, and in late Plus Disk you have enough skill points to grab pretty much every skill for most characters, so it becomes a thoughtless process of grabbing all the skills save for unaffordable or worthless things. I'm personally far too much of a perfectionist to run the same build for everything, especially when it comes to recording gameplay. For most bosses (especially early on), I spend a few hours calculating all of the options to be certain of the best choices available, doing damage checks, experimenting with potential strategies, etc. This game provides an enormous level of experimentation and customization, using that to its fullest extent is just as much part of the fun.
That said, I try to stick with the same 12 characters as much as possible. Experimenting with other characters is something I do not do, outside of experimental damage calculations to learn more about how Iku/Tenshi are doing relative to the other cast members.
-
I just noticed that Orin's Blazing Wheel now has 3000 postuse instead of 0. Yay?
-
so, what is this?
(http://i67.tinypic.com/34ipkx2.jpg)
I did this when I took Nitori's Ame-No-Murakumo class but didn't use a tome and gave her the same subclass again
I turned off the animations so there is no animation but Nitori indeed used Dragon God's Sigh and not Ame-no-Murakumo Slash
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2i7uur7.jpg)
After closing the game, I couldn't do the same thing once more
-
What's the recommended level for the Enhanced Murakumo fight? My party is averaging just above lvl 200 at the moment, with huge money dumps into Nitori, but every strat i've tried is just not working very well. Nitori can barely even put a large dent in Murakumo unless Genji Glove Proc's on a fully buffed Nitori with Herb of Awakening (at which point it seems to do just over 4mil which nearly 1 shotted it lol. Otherwise, I keep getting all my buffs removed and the boss keeps outhealing my damage so there's really not much leeway I'm able to make on it. Survival is not the biggest issue considering everyone I built to be relevant can take a hit here but I also do not know what to do with half my party since the usual damage dealers aren't able to do much.
I don't want to have to grind much more if I can avoid it, though if the level rec is much higher I will do it anyway. It's been a while since I played this hardcore so there's probably more I could be doing that I'm just not thinking of. Most of my party is fairly decently invested, though they could probably all be tankier. So far the heaviest invesments were Meiling, Byakuren, Kasen and Nitori. If anyone has any really great strats I can work into the fight I'd appreciate it :)
Probably not too coherent, but I'm also trying to refresh myself over this too while writing this lol. Any help would be appreciated.
For the record, my party for the last chunk of the game and postgame has basically been TankMeiling and Attackers Kasen, Sakuya, Kanako and Nitori, with Byakuren to do some buffing (supplemented by Sanae). That's kind of the only people I've hugely built on, as well as Reimu for general support/tankiness. Everyone else is pretty moldable, but I'm at a point now where with so much options to choose from I'm very overwhelmed with the idea that I'm missing something important in my strategy that will just blow everything wide open. So idk, suggestions would be appreciated. Momiji is also kind of important in my party at the moment, as she's essential for beefing up Nitori (who has the base ATK + ACC - main equip so Momi's acc increase skill is necessary for Nitori to hit her Super Scope most of the time) so I made Momi a Herbalist for the sole role of being on field to give Nitori a Herb of Awakening before a super scope.
-
so, what is this?
Not 100% sure how you accessed it, but that's actually from a subclass that isn't normally accessible yet, and was found via datamining.
What's the recommended level for the Enhanced Murakumo fight? My party is averaging just above lvl 200 at the moment, with huge money dumps into Nitori, but every strat i've tried is just not working very well.
Ran it at average level 160 and library level 187/30 for every character, I took the easy way out and used Eiki's Last Judgement to ignore DEF/MND. You're destroying the Arms first right? They revive Murakumo if it's defeated before the Arms. The Right Arm will use Shredder randomly with an increasing likelihood the higher your overall buffs are, so if you're having trouble with that, defeat the Right Arm first. Most of its other actions are weakish MT attacks of every element though. As far as Murakumo's healing goes, since it's based on the victim's MP, keeping a character low on MP can help mitigate the healing. It always uses the healing attack every 6th turn (starting after it summons its Arms), and always on the leftmost slot. An easier way to remember it may be every 3 turns after Godly Scarlet Gold Slash.
-
Ah yes, finally managed it thank you. Right arm proved to be the hardest to kill (why do all my MAG damage dealers suck so many eggs?) and I barely made the final stretch through sheer regen tanking by both Byakuren and Komachi (Byakuren actually died right before Murakumo did). Nitori took out the left arm in one fell swoop and did basically all the damage to Murakumo and even the right arm.
-
So, I was playing with the thought of replaying this once again with some custom changes with a custom-made cheat engine table to reduce the amount of exp and/or money received, the option to disable spell animations, possibly a change to the battle-reward-bonus limits or skillpoints per level.
Now my questions, as I am a bit rusty with the whole reverse engineering stuff, would anyone be willing to help porting my already existing cheat engine scripts to the plus version of the game? Would anyone even be able to possibly make a patcher so you don't have to run cheat engine all the time and make it easy for people who can't cheat engine to use such modifications?
Lastly a question to majukirin, if you're seeing this, it appears you made your own spell-disabler thingy for plus disc, would you mind sharing and adding towards this?
-
so, what is this?
There's a bug in the game that lets you access the two normally hidden subclasses (after you learned Murakumo's Blessing).
Let someone learn Murakumo's Blessing, then immediately go to the Character Status Up menu in the library, and without pressing anything (the cursor should be invisible), press Z once or twice to access Power of Dragon God and *WINNER* respectively (pressing thrice will freeze the game). You can even let multiple characters learn those two subclasses that way (they're meant to be for one character only like Murakumo Blessing).
The reason for this bug is that if you learn a subclass and go immediately to Character Status Up, the game for some reason carries over the location of the cursor. There are exactly 14 subclasses in main game so it worked out, but in plus disk starting from Archmage the cursor overflowed to values that should not be upgraded - if you do this trick with Archmage to Oracle, your character ends up getting free level-up bonus points in stats (and these free level-up points can even be redistributed however you like; they won't disappear unless you use Tome of Reincarnation), and if you do this with Murakumo's Blessing you end up "upgrading" their subclass instead.
-
Interesting... you know, part of me feels like trying it. But at the same time, the game is already kinda damn easy as it is (i.e. it lacks legit endgame bosses), I'd sorta feel bad about overpowering those poor bosses with three "epic" subclasses instead of one (let alone abusing the bug to get multiples lol).
On the other hand, there is a challenge left in the game, even in this incomplete form - even if the floor counter of the Infinite Corridor stays at 101F forever, the level of enemies keeps increasing, and by the time it gets to 900+ while you're still the same party which killed Serpent of Chaos, you WILL get thrashed. So... maybe we could make a challenge about how far we can get in the corridor as it is?^^
Though in that case, it would prolly be better to keep two saves, since the kind of party which would excel at this sort of challenge would be quite different from the one I'd use to finish the postgame bosses. Many characters, such as Renko & Maribel and the 3 oni, are quite great for boss fights but less so for random encounters. On the other hand, many "families" like Yakumo and Earth Palace Party are great for random encounters but a bit too frail/not powerful enough for bosses.
At the moment, I'm grinding the Eternal Corridor 1F after beating Futo (which, btw, was ridiculously easy with Renko/Maribel/Yuugi/Nitori, I literally finished her with just two Knockouts in Three Steps and two Super Scopes) to get 10 jewels for everybody + the main gears (basically, Flower Blade Kikiryousei and the occasional Tokugawa Statue/Scourge/Tupsimati/Medicine of Life). I don't really need awakenings before Kedama Goddess and Serpent of Chaos either, so I can just stock the jewels before then, maybe. And then, once I beat these bosses, reload to awaken different chars and go for the "infinite run"^^
Which party would you make for such a run?
-
I should remind you that you only get 7 jewels. 30F, 60F and 100F bosses drop equipment instead of jewels.
Anyways, here are some things I can think up of that would be more helpful in corridor than boss fights:
-DTH
-Sanae's TP restoration
-Things like Desire to Rest and Small MP Recovery
-Passives that reduce encounter rate (so Renko still has a use)
-
Honestly, with a combination of Chen + Aya + Rumia, as well as the TP restoring orbs between floors, you can just run from every encounter and never have to fight anything ever. That actually seems more fun then fighting level 900 random encounters for hours, but not by much.
-
I should remind you that you only get 7 jewels. 30F, 60F and 100F bosses drop equipment instead of jewels.
Anyways, here are some things I can think up of that would be more helpful in corridor than boss fights:
-DTH
-Sanae's TP restoration
-Things like Desire to Rest and Small MP Recovery
-Passives that reduce encounter rate (so Renko still has a use)
Sanae's TP restoration is not actually as important at that level as you might think. By then, you should have 40+ TP on every character, and given that every time you complete a floor you get a % restore of your TP if you want, you rarely if ever get to finish your TP. The same is true of your MP as well, even moreso actually.
What you should be worried about, frankly, is not to finish TPs/MPs, but to be completely obliterated in a fight (which is what happened to me, eventually). DTH effects aren't bad, but most DTH inducing chars are quite slow (Yuyuko, Komachi, Eiki). If anything, I think something ultra-fast like Chen, Orin or Aya is much more useful.
Though you're still right about Renko's encounter reducing ability. In fact, it might be a good idea to bring Rumia and her T9 entourage as well for that (also, it helps that T9 makes for a kinda good random cleaner too with its powerful spread attacks, heals, and MP efficiency).
A possible proposal (with bolded chars as my choices for awakening) would be:
Row 1: Renko [Strategist] / Miko [WINNER] / Kokoro [Murakumo] / Maribel [Transcendent]
Row 2: Hina [Strategist] / Momiji [Transcendent] / Nitori [Trascendent] / Aya [Dragon God]
Row 3 Satori [Strategist] / Koishi [Transcendent] / Utsuho [Transcendent] / Orin [Warrior]
An alternative set up could be
Row 1: Renko [Strategist] / Reimu [Transcendent] / Tokiko [WINNER] / Maribel [Transcendent]
Row 2: Ran [Strategist] / Yukari [Transcendent] / Nitori [Transcendent] / Chen [Dragon God]
Row 3: Sanae [Strategist] / Miko [Transcendent] / Suwako [Murakumo] / Kanako [Transcendent]
thoughts?
Honestly, with a combination of Chen + Aya + Rumia, as well as the TP restoring orbs between floors, you can just run from every encounter and never have to fight anything ever. That actually seems more fun then fighting level 900 random encounters for hours, but not by much.
Well yes, you can - but I would do that only to farm Machine God Lucifer, I guess. I mean, if you're not battling to begin with, what's the point?^^
-
WINNER Tokiko would be interesting to see, since she actually has decent stats, which can be bolstered with Reimu. Also, she can finally have good AoE attacks.
-
Dragon God's Power:
-Fire Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, recover 4% of all frontliners' HP.
-Wood Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, grants all allies 4% buff on all stats.
-Water Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, all frontliners will have a 20% chance of removing all ailments.
-Earth Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder is in the front, reduce damage from enemies for all frontliners by 10%.
-Metal Circle's Guard (1*25): When the skill holder takes a turn, if the skill holder's ATB is 10001 or more, recover 1 of all frontliner's MP.
So dragon god Aya would be really broken.
-
tbh I think DGP isn't that great, the only really strong effect is the passive damage reduction. I would rather use Enhancer or Elementalist for Aya. Enhancer for grinding, Elementalist for a low delay buff for bosses before switching her out. DGP doesn't appear to be anything I might find useful, unless the spell card is really strong.
-
A char I'm also considering for the Dragon God class is Kokoro. Fast Concentrates allows it to get multiple activations for the various DG abilities - and, since you'd Concentrate at least once or twice for the mask power, this gives you a nice bonus for something you'd have done anyway. Also, DG has a powerful composite spellcard, which is good for Kokoro's mixed offenses.
EDIT: Also, looked up the numbers RegalStar posted a while ago for subclass attacks... Damn 250 (ATK+MAG) for Dragon's Breath is absolutely insane (it's almost double what Kokoro would do with her own composite attack, and more than half of Flandre's Lavatein). WINNER's attacks don't look as crazy overpowered (though they're still good, mind you), but the subclass already comes with absurd stat buffs as it is, so the final damage output should be quite strong anyway.
-
Ah, I was not aware the spell stats were known for DGP/WINNER. Pity I'm only now finding out, in the process of moving and will be without internet for a week. Currently posting via 3DS. Can someone quote the spell formulas so I can check them later?
-
Dragon's Breath (5*15): 12MP/All/FIR+CLD+WND+NTR/Straight Composite/Acc+50/Subclass Spell that inflicts composite damage of four elements to all enemies. As a composite attack, ATK, MAG, DEF and MND are all involved in the damage calculation.
Vorpal Blade (5*15): 7MP/Row/WND/Physical/Acc-15/Subclass Spell that inflicts WND damage to a row of enemies. Both its ATK multiplier and damage multiplier are high.
Magical Tempest (5*15): 12MP/All/Void/Magic/Acc+30/Subclass spell that inflicts non-elemental damage to all enemies.
Sword of Light (5*15): 8MP/Single/SPI/Composite Magic/Acc+128/Subclass spell that inflicts SPI damage to one enemy. A spell that calculates both the ATK and MAG of the user, and the MND of the target. It also ignores 50% of the target's MND.
Wand of *Destruction* (5*15): 16MP/All/DRK/Composite Physical/Acc-20/Subclass spell that uses the user's ATK and MAG, and the targets' DEF. The Damage multiplier is very high, but its power is low, and the MP consumption and delay are both terrifyingly high. It can inflict PSN, PAR, HVY, SHK, TRR, SIL and DTH.
-
Dragon God: HP+12, MP+8, TP+8, All elements+64 (wtf), All status+20
Four Elements Protection: FIR/CLD/WND/NTR affinity+3 per level (max level 20)
Dragon Breath: 12MP, All Enemies, FIR+CLD+WND+NTR composite, 250(ATK+MAG)-40(DEF+MND), 2400 postuse
WINNER: All stats+6 (not including TP or MP), All elements+24, All ailments+8
Autoroller: All stats+1 per level (max level 10; same for the two below)
Elemental Immunity: All Elements+4 per level
Magic Armor: All Ailments+2 per level
Vorpal Blade: 7MP, Enemy Row, WND direct, ~237-77, 4500 postuse
Magical Tempest: 12MP, All Enemies, VOI magic (though it's actually MYS right now), 280-100, 600 postuse
Sword of Light: 8MP, One Enemy, SPI composite magic, ~195(ATK+MAG)-33(MND), 5750 postuse
Wand of Destruction: 16MP, All Enemies, DRK compoiste direct, ~192(ATK+MAG)-120(DEF), inflicts every status except debuffs (fairly reliably too from what I observed), 2400 postuse
-
I wonder if Rin could make good use of the Dragon God class with her low delay Cat's Walk and Speedy Formation Change, Dragon's Breath is stronger (though also twice as expensive) than her Blazing Wheel too. Btw does anyone know how do "Increase x elemental damage" skills interact with spellcards that have multiple elements?
-
Although I haven't tested, I'm pretty sure the attack will get the boost from any passive matching one of it's elements. If you can stack multiple, then you should get some big damage, but it'll be pretty demanding on your front line space.
Re:Speedy Formation change, I particularly like the idea of combining Dragon God with Awakened Kogasa, who gets a passive party heal to stack with dragon god's and Speedy Formation. Orin would do well offensively though, with Extra Attack dragon breath. Yuuka would love it too.
-
Doesn't Extra Attack put your ATB to 10000, instead of 10001? Because if so, I dunno if it'll activate DG abilities.
-
Extra Attack doesn't mess with ATB; it just repeats the action, so it won't trigger circles at all. Extra Step puts the user at 20000 ATB so it will trigger circles again, though of course its bossing relevance is... limited.
-
Instant Attack does set your ATB to 10000, which is why the DG abilities are worded that way, so you can't just trigger them infinitely with two instant attackers. Healer has something similar for its %heal skill, but the debuff/ailment reducing skills on Herbalist don't. So with two Instant Attackers, one of which has Herbalist, you can almost instantly[In game turns] cure any debuff/ailment.
-
DG awakened Patchouli would be interesting to use. Dragon God?s Sigh would only cost 4MP, and using it would reduce 70% of Fire, Nature, Cold and Wind attacks.
-
DG awakened Patchouli would be interesting to use. Dragon God?s Sigh would only cost 4MP, and using it would reduce 70% of Fire, Nature, Cold and Wind attacks.
Yeah, but Patchouli's ATK is abysmal, and since Dragon God's Sigh is a composite attack, it would end up doing just a little more than Royal Flare.
-
Dragon's Breath damage wise, the best characters to use DG may be Suwako (good ATK/MAG and boosts its damage by 30% because of Froggy Power) and Flandre (self explanatory). Not sure about Satori, but post awakening she does get a 60% boost if she hits a weakness, which is made much easier by a 4 elemental spell.
-
Flan isn't a terrible idea; it'd patch up all her bad affinites, and def/mnd matter less in plus, she'd actually become vaguely durable I think! The downside is she already has fearsome attacks, but DG's wouldn't have drawbacks. It could actually be effective, but keep in mind the damage is similar to Starbow Break, albeit with more elemental coverage. She'd gain stability, not damage. She'd be a monster in random battles, tho'.
Suwako would do a boatload of damage, but all the other effects would be lost. I suppose you might be able to pump Suwako's HP with boosts to a survivable amount for her fullheal passive, though, using the affinity boost, which would make her a lot easier to use. Especially when Awakened she would deal enormous damage, so if this combo lets her survive a hit it'd be a pretty good one.
If you're already using her, Shikieiki would really enjoy the elemental coverage and has the stats for it; but this statement applies to every Plus Disk character except mamizou, to varying degrees. None of them are particularly fantastic choices but they'd all Work.
Yuuka I listed not for extra attack proccing buffs, but because she sports awesome atk+mag and solid durability to go with it, Extra Attack just adds a ton of damage. No frills, but quite effective. Sakuya works similarly, if you're trying to run SDM team or something.
-
Dragon God: HP+12, MP+8, TP+8, All elements+64 (wtf), All status+20
Four Elements Protection: FIR/CLD/WND/NTR affinity+3 per level (max level 20)
Dragon Breath: 12MP, All Enemies, FIR+CLD+WND+NTR composite, 250(ATK+MAG)-40(DEF+MND), 2400 postuse
WINNER: All stats+6 (not including TP or MP), All elements+24, All ailments+8
Autoroller: All stats+1 per level (max level 10; same for the two below)
Elemental Immunity: All Elements+4 per level
Magic Armor: All Ailments+2 per level
Vorpal Blade: 7MP, Enemy Row, WND direct, ~237-77, 4500 postuse
Magical Tempest: 12MP, All Enemies, VOI magic (though it's actually MYS right now), 280-100, 600 postuse
Sword of Light: 8MP, One Enemy, SPI composite magic, ~195(ATK+MAG)-33(MND), 5750 postuse
Wand of Destruction: 16MP, All Enemies, DRK compoiste direct, ~192(ATK+MAG)-120(DEF), inflicts every status except debuffs (fairly reliably too from what I observed), 2400 postuse
Nice, thanks. This is what I was looking for. Looks like Dragon God's Breath is about as strong as Tenshi's World Creation Press backed by Murakumo's Blessing, although that's comparing with 3x MGL vs. 3x Scourge. Regardless of that, it's excellent for covering other elements, so that looks to be a potential replacement for FIR/CLD/WND, provided that the fight is short enough that the MP cost isn't a problem. Hm, could use Tenshi + Dragon God and Iku + Murakumo's Blessing for insane WND damage...if only Iku really did get that +30% WND skill, that would be fun.
*WINNER* doesn't seem that great, although Wand of Destruction is probably the best DRK element subclass spell, at least in terms of damage. The MP cost is exorbitant for the damage it deals though, probably sticking with Ninja's Assassination Sword for DRK. *WINNER*'s strength appears to simply be the variety of options and the stat bonuses. Something of a buffed Transcendent (lacks the -10% damage reduction, but the affinity/status boost compensates) with spell cards attached. Vorpal Blade and Sword of Light are pretty strong, but DGP/Murakumo have stronger WND/SPI attacks. Though, if DGB's cost is a problem, Vorpal Blade would be the best WND subclass option after it, being significantly stronger than Puncturing Thrust. Regrettably, Magical Tempest doesn't appear to be very impressive, being a bit stronger than Archmage's Execution, but also a bit more expensive. Better off using Maribel for VOI damage if you really wanted it. VOI's advantage is not being mitigated by enemy resistance, which makes it superb for random encounters. Magical Tempest's MP cost is too high to spam random encounters.
Btw does anyone know how do "Increase x elemental damage" skills interact with spellcards that have multiple elements?
Tested this some time ago with Miko, as long as any element matches one of the element boosting skills you have active, the spell card will receive the damage boost. So like, if Miko's targeting a DRK weakness with her Tradition of Just Rewards, and you have Sanae's +30% SPI damage boost, it'll still receive the damage boost because it's SPI + DRK element. So for Dragon God's Breath, as long as you have Rin/Utsuho, Nitori, or Suwako up, it'll get the +30% damage boost. The different elemental boosting skills do not stack.
Flan isn't a terrible idea; it'd patch up all her bad affinites, and def/mnd matter less in plus, she'd actually become vaguely durable I think!
tbh Flandre is pretty durable in Plus Disk, she has like 5% less HP than Komachi under equal EXP/library investment. Flandre even has more HP than Tenshi does post-Awakening, though her affinities are way worse admittedly. Dragon God's Power would help with the affinities (the -10% damage reduction is a nice bonus too), while also granting her a strong option for CLD, WND, and NTR. Though, hm, her CLD/SPI affinities look like they'd be really awful still, especially SPI. It doesn't even break 200 even with everything maxed, gotta have equipment investment with something like Regalia or Seven Star Treasure Sword (or whatever the +128% stats / +128 affinities equip was). Well, none of that matters for opponents that don't use CLD or SPI anyway.
-
https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/997786563525267456
He's alive and he updated
-
https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/997786563525267456
He's alive and he updated
Oh my Miko, it's a miracle!
-
So let's see...
Characters:
-Koishi's "Manipulation of the Subconscoius", has been fixed (her EVA didn't increase properly before).
-There was a bug with Mamizou's skills similar to the Sanae one (one skill giving effects of 2 skills), this has been fixed.
-Patchouli's "Passive Phylosopher's Stone" didn't work properly before, there was also a fixed bug were in specific situations it altered damage in an unintended way.
-Flandre's "Forbidden Fruit" would sometimes consume 1 extra MP from her as well.
-Kokoros' "Four Humors Possesion" spellcard didn't have its properties changed according to her Emotions Mask.
-"Ancient Scepter" and "Green Eyed Monster" were fixed (they didn't work before).
-"Gatekeeper Nap" has been fixed and now properly increases SPD.
-Fixed the bug were Fuuto's plate counter decreased upon using Auxiliary spells on her (what about Sakuya..?)
-Fixed a bug with Maribel's "Vision Sharing", were apparently it only worked on certain party members.
-Renko's "Starting Point of Assault" has been changed, now it only disappears 50% of the time when the enemy takes an action (previously 100%).
-Reisen's "Red Eyes of Sun and Storms" effect changed, now it only activates 20% of the time and instead of ignoring enemy defences, you ignore enemy resistances other than DTH instead (which essentialy means that Reisen can apply statuses no matter how much resistance the enemy has to them, ridiculously good with Mystia, Parsee, Kogasa and Koishi, not sure if it works on debuffs).
-Mystia's "Intense Sight Narrowing" has been changed, now the debuff on dodging enemy attacks activates even if Mystia is in the back, but the amount has been decreased from 8% to 7% (based on the description, I assume the 20% bonus EVA still only applies if she's in the front)
-Aya's "Proof of the Fastest" now can stack up to 10 times (up from 5), but the ATK bonus has been reduced to 10% per stack from 15%.
-Suika's "Earth Gathering- Spirits -" now also buffs SPD.
-Cirno's "White Album" now increases its effect depending on skill level (that took a while).
-Suika's "Throwing Atlas" has been nerfed to deal less damage.
-Rin's personal spellcards now can go up to level 7.
Infinite Corridor:
-New floors and boss were added in the Infinite Corridor.
-Items from high ! chests are now better.
-Forcibly opening a treasure chest now gives better items than before.
-Risky Floors have been changed, now the level increase is only half of what it was before, while the bonus exp/money is now 5 times the enemy level increase (previously 2 times).
-Light events now only cost 10% of your Seven Star Dust instead of 20%.
-Levels of Bosses have been slightly reduced.
-Certain enemies attacks performance have been readjusted.
Other:
-Appraiser subclass' bonuses now display correctly on the end of combat screen.
-Fixed the bug were you couldn't fight the 3 deformed bosses if you carried Renko over in a New Game.
-Item drop rate and skill performance of certain enemies were changed.
-Fixed some typographical errors and equipment/skill description that were wrong.
-Fixed the bug were "Genji Gloves" would occasionally give 3x damage.
-"Items Discovery Weekly" and "Explorer's King's Legend" were bugged and increased the droprate by 1.0 instead of 1.6 .
-Fixed the bug which lets you obtain "Dragon God" and "WINNER" subclasses ahead of time by going to the status screen.
-The "Diva" subclass' "Silent Melody" had no effect, this has been fixed.
There are also two other changes, one to Marisa's awakening skills and one to Sanae's "Miracle of Fafrotskies" but I'm not sure how to translate them:
.覚醒スキル「ファフロッキーズの奇跡」について、「前衛にいるMP50%以下のキャラ数に応じてMP回復量が増加する」効果のMP回復量の増加具合を下方修正.
-覚醒スキル「八卦炉チャージモード」「八卦炉カスタムモード」の効果を上方修正.
-
Seems Miracle of Fafrotskies had a nerf to how much the MP regeneration increased based on how many party members were at ~50% MP. Going to test this in-game to see how big it is, but it sounds like no more nearly infinite MP for grinding. I guess it did need a nerf...
Marisa's Hakkero skills received buffs.
-
HOLY CRAP WHAAAAAAAAT
-
I'm having the same problem, and at least one other person posting in the BBS is as well. Regrettable. After 16 months, to have the latest patch walled by Error 504.
-
I put up the patch on mediafire, so if you're having problem with axfc you can use this instead (http://www.mediafire.com/file/3t51xc05jfsi30a/THL2P_1104patch.zip)
-
AHHHHH! IT UPDATED!
-
Nice, thanks. Sanae's Miracle of Fafrotskies is now +2 MP when 2-3 members are at ~50% MP, and +3 MP when 4 members are at ~50% MP.
Did a quick mop-up of 28f mobs to check for item drops, then ran to 110f on the Infinite Corridor. Nothing particularly interesting for 28f enemy drops, will explore the floor more later. Mob level range is 460-498, with a rare level 555 mob that gives high EXP/money rewards.
110f Corridor boss is level 609 Abyss Rumia, has 37m HP, uses "I'm Fine Even By Myself" every few turns with 9000 delay, special buff that increases all stats by 8% per use. Seems to always open the fight with Awakened Dark Side of the Moon, also uses Awakened Moonlight Ray, Magic Storm, Dark Storm, Magic Arrow, Dark Arrow, Destroy Magic, Yellow Curse (lol). Does not appear to use Awakened Dark Side of the Moon after the first use, Awakened Moonlight Ray appears to have poor accuracy. Only did a preliminary fight to check for level, HP, moves, will look into her more later.
-
I just finished exploring 28F, it's a pretty fun floor honestly. I still don't know how to do spoiler tags on this site so I can't put some stuff in here.
Marisa's Hakkero Charge seems to properly work from the back row now, which honestly might make Marisa stupidly good. I found even without the 99% boost, and just the 15% boost from her other Awakening Skill, that Master Spark hit like a truck.
-
Put [ spoiler ]inserttexthere[/ spoiler ], minus the spaces.
Like so.
-
Put [ spoiler ]inserttexthere[/ spoiler ], minus the spaces. Like so.
Thank you very much, I'm going to make another post for it despite it being easy to edit in order to make things easier to follow.
The Dragon God is the boss of floor 28, and I'm uploading a video for it now. It's pretty simple, but it's still interesting. Definitely has potential to be insanely difficult if you're not overpowered like I honestly still am. Also of note, I do not know what the two rock requirements are (Though I believe one is related to the way to open the way to the Dragon God), but behind two rocks going down from the relay point, there's a boss fight against ***WINNER***. His new sprite is friggin' awesome, first off, and secondly he's level 1000.
-
I should note that Proof of the Fastest used to increase damage by 15% per stack; now it increases ATK by 10% per stack so it hasn't really been nerfed on that front. Of course now it goes up to 10 stack too.
-
Thank you very much, I'm going to make another post for it despite it being easy to edit in order to make things easier to follow.
The Dragon God is the boss of floor 28, and I'm uploading a video for it now. It's pretty simple, but it's still interesting. Definitely has potential to be insanely difficult if you're not overpowered like I honestly still am. Also of note, I do not know what the two rock requirements are (Though I believe one is related to the way to open the way to the Dragon God), but behind two rocks going down from the relay point, there's a boss fight against ***WINNER***. His new sprite is friggin' awesome, first off, and secondly he's level 1000.
I saw your video of it. Sound volume is really low for some reason, but eh. Anyways, boss looks really really cool.
And last but not least, I'm very happy that 3peso updated the game. I think he said that v1.105 will have even more floors?
-
According to readme there are currently inaccessible areas that will be open to players on the next patch. There won't be any more floors of the main dungeon. (Might be more of infinite corridor though)
-
Awesome news! I guess we'll wait until next patch to revive the translation project as well?^^
-
29F has a bunch of ??? boss symbols everywhere and all of the random encounters I've seen so far are level 650ish. There's a boss icon right near the stairs that's a fight against the three Deformed bosses, at around level 888. Of note is that they seem to activate in a delayed order. Shredding Amnesieri hit my Remilia for 18.2m damage, so that was pretty funny. I can't seem to find any other new locations, so I'm assuming you're intended to bulk up at this point with the floor itself and the Infinite Corridor, similar to how 30F of the original game was a grind wall too.
-
Confirmed that in order to fight ***WINNER***, you do not need to defeat Ryujin-sama. The requirements for the two rocks blocking the way appear to be to hit the switch on 28f and to defeat B3f's Enforcer of Power. Not 100% on the former, but definite for the latter. ***WINNER*** has 330m HP, and his new sprite is indeed pretty badass.
I'll be beating up Ryujin-sama
in a little bit. Did not expect this update to include these fights, how exciting.
...
......
Ryujin-sama has 99,990,000 (99m) HP, good grief.
Hm, I ran into a bizarre glitch that caused my MP/TP Orbs to disappear. I don't know what caused that, but now I have to do 28f and Corridor 110f all over again. How annoying.
-
Hmm, the Dragon God's passive skills don't seem to be working properly, at least the "x per turn" ones.
After defeating the Dragon God you can pass the stone blocking BF10, BF11 sems to be the lowest floor according to the achievement you get, the enemies on the floor are all level 1000 palette swaps of various bosses. The boss on floor 120 of the infinity corridor is Abyss Cirno, who uses "I'm fine even by myself" just like Abyss Rumia every few turns, her first 2 turns were White Album and Diamond Blizzard (which inflicts a very strong PAR; it was about 30000 on Nitori who had 50 PAR resistance), she's also weak to FIR as expected.
-
I can confirm that the circles aren't working. At least, the per turn ones; I don't really feel like testing the 10% reduction one.
EDIT: lol at B11F dialogue. "Wow this place looks way more dangerous than 29F, but that Dragon God told us to explore here first. Let's just run away from everything; it's not like we can't make progress this way still"
-
I decided to run through some of B11F based on that last message, and after completing what seems to be 1/4th of it I found an event that had this come up at the end. http://puu.sh/Apo8y/51a0a8677e.jpg Afterwards, I had 100,000,000 extra money, which was a decent bit less than double what I had. I'm just wondering what the 250m part is...
Hm, I ran into a bizarre glitch that caused my MP/TP Orbs to disappear. I don't know what caused that, but now I have to do 28f and Corridor 110f all over again. How annoying.
I haven't run into this bug yet, but if I do I'll try and think of anything that happened before it.
-
I decided to run through some of B11F based on that last message, and after completing what seems to be 1/4th of it I found an event that had this come up at the end. http://puu.sh/Apo8y/51a0a8677e.jpg Afterwards, I had 100,000,000 extra money, which was a decent bit less than double what I had. I'm just wondering what the 250m part is...
I haven't run into this bug yet, but if I do I'll try and think of anything that happened before it.
The 250m part is experience. The Dragon God did mention something about "absorbing the scent of the evil dragon", so I guess that's something like that.
-
The 250m part is experience. The Dragon God did mention something about "absorbing the scent of the evil dragon", so I guess that's something like that.
That's actually such a crazy high amount, wow. That was a little under a third of my total EXP over the course of the game so far. I guess they really *did* want you to go to B11F and run away from everything, nice. Unfortunately I wouldn't have been able to know that at all if I wasn't checking somewhere. Hell, I missed the rock to B11F despite checking B10F Depths several times, too.
-
Other than the fight against the 3 deformed bosses, there's another boss fight accessible from the beginning on floor 29, its against a lv 724 Scarlet Hero and a lv 728 Green Ghost-something (not sure what the last kanji is). Both of them have acces to some low delay buffs and at the beginning mostly focus on single target PHY attacks that inflict SHK to your leftmost slot. The Scarlet Hero is weak to MYS and CLD and has higher MND than DEF, while the Green one is weak to SPI and WND and has very high DEF.
Once you get his health low enough the Scarlet Hero uses a NTR move that seemingly has no effect, but this unlocks a Row/AoE NTR spell that he starts using after this; he'll also use an attack where the screen flashes white, this gives him the "Invincible" buff, I'm not sure if it works like Akyuu's and has a chance to go away per turn or it just has a fixed duration (it lasted 2 of his turns for me). The Green Ghost also seems to have some kind of stack mechanic that increases each time he uses a particular DRK move, but I'm not sure of its effects.
Once you kill the Scarlet Hero, the Green one gets a 15% boost to his ATK and a 100% one to his SPD, he also starts using Iai Slash very often and can concentrate for a very powerful AoE attack that seems to have an extremely high chance of SHK. I assume something similar happens to the Scarlet Hero if you kill the Green one first (haven't tested it since my team is much better suited to dealing with the Scarlet Hero first).
Once you defeat them, one of the rocks in te Northern part of the floor lets you pass and you can get a piece of equipment:
[attach=1]
-
I haven't run into this bug yet, but if I do I'll try and think of anything that happened before it.
Ah yeah, I guess I should explain what I was doing in the first place. I had reset my whole party and allotted library levels, EXP, and skill point items. I then next did the HP Orbs, but when I went to MP I realized there were 0, along with TP. When I reset, the MP/TP Orb total exceeded 200 afterwards, so I initially presumed it was some kind of overflow glitch and the Orbs capped at 200 (the Skill Point item caps at 200), but when I loaded another save and redid the process my Orbs were of an ordinary count that exceeded 200, so that was not it.
I suspect that it does involve resetting, but I don't seen any reason for this to have occurred.
Unrelated, running Ryujin-sama's stats, has roughly 550K MAG under the assumption that its Breath attacks use the same damage formula as Flowing Hellfire and Wild Dance of Freezing Mist. The FIR/CLD ones are used by Serpent of Chaos and checked out for this as best as I could tell, so the WND/NTR ones are likely to be the same.
-
After entering the Infinite Corridor I got this series of messages.
[attach=1]
-
After entering the Infinite Corridor I got this series of messages.
[attach=1]
"As the last of Yamata-no-Orochi Hollow's remaining essence has been absorbed, the "Dust Stock" system within Infinite Corridor has been unlocked! If the party has any Seven-star dust possessed when exiting Infinite Corridor, a percentage of the seven-star dust will be converted to "dust stock". Dust stock can be used to exchange items in between floors like seven-star dust, and will not be reset when leaving the corridor; they can only be used up by purchasing items. Make use of these dust stock in your travels!"
Something that might be worth testing is if getting wiped in the dungeon will preserve dust as well.
EDIT: teleporting into mapless sections is the worst
-
For anyone who cares the endless corridor starts looping again at floor 251. Boss of floor 250 gives a weapon that has +8 TP +999% HP +800 ATK PSN/PAR/HVY/SHK +50.
There's also a rare encounter on floor 30 near a switch that allows you to access the two bosses on floor 29 behind the rocks. Level 800 Metal Kedama that has 9999 HP and gives 5.56m experience and 1.56m money and you can encounter multiple at a time.
-
Dragon God was fun to battle.
(https://i.imgur.com/rHlnDBf.jpg)
And WINNER is no joke.
(https://i.imgur.com/p4KHizA.jpg)
Also, his new design looks pretty awesome.
(https://i.imgur.com/SBQorBv.jpg)
And is it just me, but does he resemble Rinnosuke?
-
I JUST finished the translated game and had come here to post about it, and lookie, it's updated with more content I can't read. Guess it's time to wait for the translators to catch up on the new content all over again, and on that note, I suppose I'll see everyone in 2020! Seriously though, thanks to the translators for doing good work. The current English patch of Plus Disk has typos and untranslated strings sprinkled through it, but at least I was able to play what turned out to be a pretty good expansion of what was already a pretty good game thanks to your efforts. I have some friends off-site also playing this so believe me, your work's appreciated by more than you all probably know.
As for the game itself, Labyrinth 2's Plus Disk wipes the floor with Labyrinth 1's in the same way the game itself does. I found Labyrinth 1's plus disk needlessly minmaxxed and all but unapproachably grindy. Labyrinth 2's general quality of life improvements (affinity hints via colored damage, challenge levels next to bosses, and visible lifebars in battle) made this one MUCH more playable without constant reference to a wiki, and I was surprised at how little grinding was actually necessary to progress. The flow in general was 100 times better, and while after beating ***WINNER*** in Labyrinth 1 soured my overall opinion on the game, I'm rather excited to see if I can beat this one's version of him and still want to start over all again, just like I did after Hollow Yamata No Orochi. I expect a grindwall NOW, but I don't think I'll mind it... Plus Disk has a satisfying, playthrough-ending conclusion as it is without the need to go hunting down the level 1000 super boss.
Guess I'll wait patiently for the next translation patch to join the fun on this new stuff. In the meantime, I have a second playthrough to finish.
-
'ight, got
Ryujin-sama
down now. I had to do a second take due to the recording program lagging toward the end, but just as well, first was kinda sloppy. Link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuyuk4ly308 for anyone wanting to watch.
Main difficulty imo is simply its sheer durability. It almost feels like a punishment for all the Plus Disk bosses annihilated in 2-3 attacks...
-
Out of curiosity, has anyone beaten WINNER yet?
-
Tried to record the boss fight in floor 29 , https://youtu.be/HwdQoXXoTJw . They didn't get to use any of their most dangerous attacks this time.
*EDIT: The 3 deformed bosses fight at floor 29 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qep2f3LKhf8 (Nitori kinda crushed them), you also get access to an item for defeating them, which gives +640HP, +480ATK, +880DEF, +400MND, +39ACC, and +80DTH/SHK/TRR resist. I also just noticed that the boss fights on floor 29 respawn (not like there's any reason to refight them, as far as I know).
-
So, I didn't have a save file of right after I'd done everything available in the previous update. I had one where I'd just reached b9f, and one where I had been mindlessly grinding while watching youtube and stuff. I didn't want to use the super-advanced one, because everyone was around lvl 1300 or so, and I didn't want to just steamroll everything. So, what I did was copy EVF01 from the super advanced one over to the other, and gave myself 56 dark fragments with cheat engine so I could bypass rocks and stuff.
Lemme tell you, going through the new stuff at around lvl 300, I am so glad I awakened Rumia and Reisen. I knew statuses were good, but holy carp, using Aya, Yuyuko, Rumia, and Reisen makes random encounters a joke. Even most of the B11F enemies will just kinda lie down and die for you. Alice with Trip Wire can be better in the upper floors, but a lot of those enemies are also just vulnerable to death, so Yuyuko makes quick work of them.
Hell, the only reason I was able to beat Dragon God is because he's vulnerable to Shake(Shock?), at least in the second phase. Are there only two phases, or did I just glitch him by only letting him get, like, three more turns after that point?
*Edit: Turns out one of ***Winner***'s forms is vulnerable to SHK, too. Cheesed the hell outta that fight at around lvl 600.
-
So, something I just noticed in regards to crafting stuff since I'm preparing for the first 29F boss.
Machine God Lucifers now require the material that I have only seen as a drop from ***WINNER*** so far. This means you can only have Machine God Lucifers if you luck out in the Corridor, assuming things haven't been changed, or you beat him. I don't remember the other "endgame" crafting items having anything else other than the super rare Endless Corridor chest material, either.
-
Hey, guys, new guy here. I've been playing Labyrinth of Touhou 2 for some time now and I installed the latest patch of Plus Disk. However, when I got up to 28F, I can't move from my position and it's not marking tiles for me. I beat Yamata-no-Orochi Hollow, and I'm at 60F of the Infinite Corridor, but I didn't beat the Enforcer of Power or Kedema Goddess yet. What am I supposed to do?
-
Actually, never mind about that last post. I needed to repatch the game, and it all worked well.
-
So, something I just noticed in regards to crafting stuff since I'm preparing for the first 29F boss.
Machine God Lucifers now require the material that I have only seen as a drop from ***WINNER*** so far. This means you can only have Machine God Lucifers if you luck out in the Corridor, assuming things haven't been changed, or you beat him. I don't remember the other "endgame" crafting items having anything else other than the super rare Endless Corridor chest material, either.
Once you defeat WINNER the chest behind him actually contains 2 more golden statues, so you can get a total of 3 just from defeating him. Also, the WINNERS's level seems to increase by 200 each time you defeat him.
*EDIT: ***WINNER*** boss fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGP_Tg7aANo , got really lucky in this one.
-
Am I dumb for only now noticing that the infinite corridor character bosses are going in the order that the characters appear in, say, the shrine level up screen or the library screen?
-
Someone mentioned in the thread before something about turning off spell animations in 2? Is there a way to do that? I can't think of a way, unless it involves porting over the thing that does it from LoT1.
-
Wait, you mean that MGL now requires more than just 3X Iron Man's Headband? Damn, I should've crafted at least one before passing to the new patch lol
-
Wait, you mean that MGL now requires more than just 3X Iron Man's Headband? Damn, I should've crafted at least one before passing to the new patch lol
Yeah, all of the most powerful equipment (Medicine of Life, MGL, Tupsimati, Ringil, Scourge and Power Dragon Scalemail) now require 2 additional materials each ( Otherwordly Black Hole, Legendary Soul, Dark Boulder of Disaster, etc. ), MGL has the most steep requirement with the Golden Swordfish Statue (plus 3 Iron Man's Headband and a Paracelsus Azoth).
EDIT: Also, now that I think about it, since the Winner's Rags requires 3 Golden Swordfish Statues, you must at the very least defeat ***WINNER*** 2 times to be able to craft both the Rags and an MGL ( of course, MGL can be obtained in the Infinite Corridor too).
-
Oh I just
ran into WINNER on my Team 9 file and oh boy I know everything was going to shit the moment Wriggle got one shot by his first move.
SAFE TO SAY THIS MAY REQUIRE THEM BEING HIGHER THAN THE MID 700s, OOPS.
-
Need to test this further, but Dust Stock conversion rate thus far appears to be 10% for leaving dungeons, and 1% for being wiped out. I need to double check for the former, I had foolishly assumed it would be a 1:1 conversion rate, so I didn't keep track of my original Dust quantity.
Regarding Corridor 120f's boss, Abyss Cirno has 24.9m HP, always starts with "I'm Fine Even By Myself" followed by White Album, then Diamond Blizzard. Uses Direct Attack and Blue Arrow frequently. Perfect Freeze appears to be used every set number of turns, she'll also repeat the White Album > Diamond Blizzard as well. Surprisingly, Abyss Cirno's gimmick is having very high DEF/MND, highly unusual both for a Touhou boss and for Cirno herself.
Also, doesn't appear to have been discussed here, but on 29f there's a boss fight against "King of Chaos", the Demi-Fiend from Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne. JP player has a video up of it on YT, boss level is 1280 and naturally summons more enemies to aid it. As with Rance and...whoever the red silhouette is (Arcanum Knights' protagonist, or another Alicesoft character?), the Red and Green boss pair, the Demi-Fiend is a silhouette.
-
Also, doesn't appear to have been discussed here, but on 29f there's a boss fight against "King of Chaos", the Demi-Fiend from Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne. JP player has a video up of it on YT, boss level is 1280 and naturally summons more enemies to aid it. As with Rance and...whoever the red silhouette is (Arcanum Knights' protagonist, or another Alicesoft character?), the Red and Green boss pair, the Demi-Fiend is a silhouette.
I'm assuming that's Arios Theoman, another alicesoft character. He's the former Guardian Hero of the World, and his in-game name is 赤い英雄, or Scarlet Hero, compared to Rance's 緑の鬼畜, Green Devil
-
The Red Hero is Adol - specifically, Adol in Oath of Felghana. His attacks are all his various moves from that game, boost (and double boost presumably used when you take down Rance first), and various items from within that game.
-
I wonder if anyone can confirm whether or not that OP equipment can be dropped from the lower floors of the Infinite Corridor, still...
-
Need to test this further, but Dust Stock conversion rate thus far appears to be 10% for leaving dungeons, and 1% for being wiped out. I need to double check for the former, I had foolishly assumed it would be a 1:1 conversion rate, so I didn't keep track of my original Dust quantity.
Conversion rate seems to be based on consecutive number of floors cleared. I cleared 20 floors consecutively and got 20% of the remnant converted, at least. (This also means that while it would be technically possible to gather enough stock to get a MGL without advancing a single floor, it's probably going to take you weeks if not months to pull that off)
-
Ah, that makes sense. I ran 10 floors before leaving a dungeon and then 1 floor for the wipe out, so that would be where I got the 10% / 1%.
Unrelated, tried out Dragon God's Power on Tenshi. Dragon God's Breath is insane, absolutely shredded Abyss Cirno
even at 100% DEF/MND buffs. Besides confirming its incredible strength, found it now costs 15 MP and has 0 delay, as opposed to 12 and 2400 like before. I haven't checked to see if the damage formula is still the same or not.
-
It sounds like the damage formula was probably buffed, which would not be surprising.
-
@Validon98
I don't know how the other person did it, but I used cheat engine to do so, have not bothered to make it work for plus disc though.
Other person who had a way to disable them never replied to me so I'm still curious if they did the same or if there's an actually obvious way to do so without the use of tools (please respond)
That aside, really surprised about the sudden update, still unsure if this one includes -all- of the promised features or if there's still something missing, but if people can rush through it in a day, I won't get my hopes up too much.
What about the missing skill-unlocking items, are they all there now?
-
All the special items are available, yes.
-
That aside, really surprised about the sudden update, still unsure if this one includes -all- of the promised features or if there's still something missing, but if people can rush through it in a day, I won't get my hopes up too much.
To be fair, it's only a small handful of floors. It's just that those floors have all the big superbosses and mega endgame content in them. Grinding ahoy!
Also presumably a large hunk of infinite corridor, but it remains to be seen just how much we've got now. Well, makes the grinding a bit more interesting. Assuredly you can now Awaken your entire party, which is nice.
-
Also presumably a large hunk of infinite corridor, but it remains to be seen just how much we've got now.
I posted this earlier but it starts looping again once you beat the boss on floor 250.
-
Apparently, the Infinity Corridor is supposed to reach up to 512F, so there is probably another patch coming up.
-
(http://puu.sh/Aq4kS/e7971e24cf.jpg)
WELL OKAY.
This was off using a key on a !!!! chest, as a note.
-
I posted this earlier but it starts looping again once you beat the boss on floor 250.
What was the boss? The item mentioned earlier is "Mighty Hammer 'Grond', which was related to another Z Angband enemy like The Destroyer and the Serpent of Chaos, this time a Lord of the Rings character. Was that the boss, or was the boss unrelated? Also, were there any other non-Touhou bosses along the way?
-
The previous translation patch has been bumped up to function in the new Plus Disk version!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gy_k4dgrPVLffSsDg7r9BCHQIF3Full8/view
None of the new content is translated (yet), but this way you can still play in mostly-english.
-
What was the boss? The item mentioned earlier is "Mighty Hammer 'Grond', which was related to another Z Angband enemy like The Destroyer and the Serpent of Chaos, this time a Lord of the Rings character. Was that the boss, or was the boss unrelated? Also, were there any other non-Touhou bosses along the way?
I'm not sure if you can spoiler images, so I'll just put the imgur link of it in the bestiary - https://i.imgur.com/qW0w9ho.png
All of the other bosses are single Touhou character fights.
Edit - I just checked using that English patch that was posted and the first line of flavor text is translated and mentions the hammer being wielded by the "Dark Lord". Perhaps someone else knows what that's referring to as I don't know anything about LotR or Z Angband.
-
I unlocked the other bosses on 29F.
Demi-fiend being a fight in this game scares me, but what scares me even more is the OTHER boss on 29F. I might be wrong here but I'm 99% sure it's Rinnosuke from LoT1, it even used Start of Heavenly Demise. This is its sprite, and it matches up really well with LoT1 Rinnosuke. http://puu.sh/Aq58I/df62bedeb6.jpg
Also, 30F is cruel.
EDIT: I managed to beat the boss at level 700! Wow! It was pretty simple! Oh, wait, no, it form changed. It *is* Rinnosuke.
-
I'm not sure if you can spoiler images, so I'll just put the imgur link of it in the bestiary
Boss' name is 災禍を抱く冥王, "Disaster Embracing Dark Lord", and is indeed based on the wielder of Grond, this guy here: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Melkor. I was kind of expecting him to look more...armored, but apparently he can change shape, and his description in Z Angband goes "His figure is like a black mountain crowned with Lightning." Well, it's more true to the source material than The Destroyer is, I don't think it was envisioned as a flying sword. Curiously, unlike The Destroyer and The Serpent of Chaos, who use the exact same name in this game as they did in Z Angband, the JP name for Z Angband is a bit different, 冥王『モルゴス』, original EN is "Morgoth, Lord of Darkness".
Separating spoilers for datamined subjects, the equipment now unaccounted for (as far as I'm aware) consists of the following
Jewel of Judgement
MP+8 HP+999% MAG+800% TRR SIL DTH DBF+50
"The One Ring"
HP MND+999% EVA+32 CLD WND NTR+144
Book of Babbles
DEF MND+640% All Elements+100 All Status+32
Excalibur II
ATK+780% HP DEF+500% EVA+24 All Elements+64
True Divine Sword "Ame-no-Murakumo"
All Stats+999%
Source of Dragon God's Power
All Stats+500% All Elements+100 All Status+50
The last two are obvious. The Book of Babbles and Excalibur II are Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy references. They might be tied to the achievements for defeating 29f's bosses, I don't know what those are. If not, probably tied to bosses. I'm unfamiliar with the former item, but it appears to be related to a recurring super boss in Dragon Quest. Excalibur II is similarly related to recurring Final Fantasy character Gilgamesh. They might not be tied to cameo bosses though, the Allagan Battleaxe is a FFXIV reference, but is earned by defeating the Grotesque/Deformed trio. The Jewel of Judgement is related to The Serpent of Chaos' counterpart, The Unicorn of Order, and makes an appearance in Z Angband as an enemy. The Jewel of Judgement is an eye that the Unicorn gouged out of the Serpent, so it's probably the boss to drop that. The One Ring also shows up as an enemy in Z Angband, under the name of "a Plain Gold Ring". Either the Ring itself is the boss for it, or the one responsible for its forging, Sauron. Naturally, he's a Z Angband enemy as well.
I'm a nerd so I like to try to research about these things, since it can give a glimpse into the future of the game's updates. Developer likes to make a lot of references to things they like.
Also, 30F is cruel.
Guessing the Heaven counterparts of the Touhou bosses are random encounters there, similar to Labyrinth of Touhou 1?
Also, regarding Rinnosuke, the boss name is 襌の男, seems to be "Man of Dhyana". Dhyana is a Buddhist term for a profound meditation. I think this is the accurate translation for 襌, unsure.
-
It's Man of Fundoshi.
-
Guessing the Heaven counterparts of the Touhou bosses are random encounters there, similar to Labyrinth of Touhou 1?
I didn't encounter any in the areas I was able to explore. There's several rocks I haven't managed to open yet so it's possible they might start showing up beyond them though.
Here's the text on them in case anyone wants to translate - https://i.imgur.com/35EZr5E.png
-
Managed to defeat the Rinnosuke knockoff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EnElwzSIxE took quite some time to get prepared at the start of the fight.
-
I didn't encounter any in the areas I was able to explore. There's several rocks I haven't managed to open yet so it's possible they might start showing up beyond them though.
Here's the text on them in case anyone wants to translate - https://i.imgur.com/35EZr5E.png
First one is somewhere deep within infinite corridor; second one is somewhere deep on top of the tree; third one is just "sorry can't pass right now"
-
It's Man of Fundoshi.
Oh, 褌, not 襌. Durr, I should have checked the kanji for fundoshi, that was obvious. Going with Fundoshi Man then.
I didn't encounter any in the areas I was able to explore.
Huh, curious what's cruel about it then that Khrinji mentioned, that was my best guess as to what 30f had in store.
-
Huh, curious what's cruel about it then that Khrinji mentioned, that was my best guess as to what 30f had in store.
It's got some pretty crazy exploration, and the enemies are very tough. And there's still more of the floor to go, so it could still get worse.
-
First one is somewhere deep within infinite corridor; second one is somewhere deep on top of the tree; third one is just "sorry can't pass right now"
Thank you. Guess it's back to playing the waiting game until the next patch is released then unless someone else uncovers a trigger on 30F that I missed exploring it. Judging by the text mentioning it being deep on the top of the tree, I imagine it's likely beyond the rock that says you can't pass. I like that 3peso is incorporating the corridor into the actual dungeon exploration instead of it being just some optional boss gauntlet.
-
The notes for the 1.104 update basically confirm the red rock is impassable until 1.105, which will have everything accessible.
-
Separating spoilers for datamined subjects, the equipment now unaccounted for (as far as I'm aware) consists of the following
I just noticed this post now, so:
A couple of items are changed from that list. Book of Babbles is replaced by "Parallel Dimension Truth" which doesn't seem to be a reference to anything, and its description speaks of some "mysterious meat 3 brothers after clearing the game". The stats are same, though. Excalibur II got replaced with "Will of Gensokyo" which talked about "imitations" (and one of the rock messages referred to such too, noting that they're at the bottom of the tree - this is probably something different from the shadow bosses fights that populated B1F-B10F). It also got new stats: TP+8, All+400%, ACC/EVA+16, Ailment Resists+32, HP Recovery+2, MP Recovery+1.
It's got some pretty crazy exploration, and the enemies are very tough. And there's still more of the floor to go, so it could still get worse.
I honestly still prefer 30F's color switch hell to B9F's mapless icy hall of fun and happiness. As for monsters, like EVERYTHING is weak to NTR and I believe CLD so that helps a lot.
-
Given I've been doing all this with Team 9, there's a lot of it that was surprisingly easy to do, especially since when I left them off, they handled Kedama Goddess or whatever it was called on B4F or whichever floor it was, so they were all sufficiently ready to handle Hollow Yamata-no-Orochi (again) and
Dragon God. As well as going through last night and getting through 87F to about 120ishF, taking out Serpent of Chaos easily along the way. The only part of random encounters that were tough were B11F, but at this point they're way more managable now that everyone's reaching level 900ish.
...Still haven't beaten ***WINNER*** though. I got him down to like 25% HP but noooot quite. Need a bit more grinding I guess and then he'll be down. And I've still got Deformed Bosses 2, not!Demi-Fiend, and not!Rinnosuke to do.
-
[attach=1]
Welp, guess I'm not beating it at level 900.
-
(http://puu.sh/Aq4kS/e7971e24cf.jpg)
WELL OKAY.
This was off using a key on a !!!! chest, as a note.
Yeah, you could obtain those on patch 1.103 too, I think?
Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIg8Cwo2nWY is up. Spoilers for patch 1.104. Sorry for the late video :P
-
A couple of items are changed from that list. Book of Babbles is replaced by "Parallel Dimension Truth" which doesn't seem to be a reference to anything, and its description speaks of some "mysterious meat 3 brothers after clearing the game". The stats are same, though. Excalibur II got replaced with "Will of Gensokyo" which talked about "imitations" (and one of the rock messages referred to such too, noting that they're at the bottom of the tree - this is probably something different from the shadow bosses fights that populated B1F-B10F). It also got new stats: TP+8, All+400%, ACC/EVA+16, Ailment Resists+32, HP Recovery+2, MP Recovery+1.
Well that's interesting. Any details on the achievements? These were the ones that couldn't be acquired in the previous patch.
There's presently 6 achievements that aren't acquirable right now. I think these are the correct name/objective matches, but not 100% on it. Translating them roughly, they're
"Was it going easy on us?": Defeat the Dragon God
"Who's this geezer?": Defeat ***WINNER***
"Door of Summoning": Defeat a boss on 29f
"Door of Door of Summoning": Defeat all of the bosses on 29f
"Patrasche": Defeat a boss on 30f
"Didn't go easy this time": Defeat the True: Dragon God
Were there any changes here? I'm guessing the Will of Gensokyo is defeating all of the Abyss bosses, so perhaps the Parallel Dimension Truth is for defeating all of the Heaven bosses...maybe.
[attach=1]
Welp, guess I'm not beating it at level 900.
Yeah that would be Demi-Fiend's Gaea Rage, which was a party wipe in its source material's fight. The clear video that was uploaded yesterday delayed the boss' actions frequently, so I'm guessing you have to defeat before it gets a set number of actions, or it'll use Gaea Rage. Maybe you'll be able to win if you blitz it.
-
Acheivements were mostly unchanged - there were a couple of names that got changed but descriptions remained the same, and 8-bit limit went from 256F infinity corridor to 250F infinity corridor.
Also for fun, I used cheat engine to hack myself past the "unpassable rocks". Sadly there aren't anything substantial behind them at the moment; the "deep within 30F" and "deep within infinity corridor" rocks lead to empty rooms, while the two red rocks (on 30F and B11F) lead to non-functional teleporters that teleport to themselves. The only interesting thing is that the 30F teleporter is guarded by another rock which calls for defeating all 4 bosses on 29F, while the one on B11F isn't guarded by anything else.
-
Yeah that would be Demi-Fiend's Gaea Rage, which was a party wipe in its source material's fight. The clear video that was uploaded yesterday delayed the boss' actions frequently, so I'm guessing you have to defeat before it gets a set number of actions, or it'll use Gaea Rage. Maybe you'll be able to win if you blitz it.
I'm not sure about the turn limit, but he uses it when you defeat 4 of his summons. He has 6 summons in total (he can only have 2 of them out at once), each unique in its own way: the first is the Hero (knight) which mostly uses support spells and removes debuffs and statuses, second a demon statue that focuses in single target attacks, third a fairy which will Concentrate and use an immensely powerful DRK attack, fourth a golem that has very high defences and inflicts SIL and DTH, fifth a Queen (siren) that mostly debuffs you and sixth a nereid that mostly buffs. The turn right after he summons the nereid, he'll deplete his ATB bar down to 0 and Gaea Rage will come right after; he'll then waste a turn recharging and then start summoning in the same order again. So overall, if you want to avoid it, you can't defeat more than 3 of his summons. Even without that, I'll still need to grind a bit for this fight, since they deal more damage than I can take and he has a lot of HP, and most importantly both him and his summons are way faster than most of my characters.
-
Ah, that must be it then, as Demi-Fiend used Gaea Rage after 2 summons following the initial 2, as I understand. Wonder if there's another trigger for it then, as summoning more enemies is reason enough to defeat the King of Chaos first, not much point in defeating the summons first.
-
I'd like a little advice on how exactly I should be getting stronger.
I'm about level 700 right now with floor 29 fully explored. I started exploring 29 at about 630-ish and was on floor 28 on 500-ish. I'm starting to notice that raw level ups aren't really making a difference anymore, a bundle of 25 or so levels don't change anything at all on my fights with b11 enemies (whom I'm leveling off of, for gems/jewels and one of them in particular dropping about 1 million money). Am I really supposed to just keep very slightly powering up in increments of 50-100 levels and keeping library levels about the same, or would I be better served in the infinity corridor looking for gems, tomes, and items? Just how essential is it to have a loadout of MGL's as opposed to equipment a tier or two down, and just how much do the stat boosting gems/high boosts really actually matter? I'm also finding it hard to keep playing as I've been, library levels are getting expensive enough and all these consumable items/awakenings in general are making it tough to swap party members around, feeling like I really better just find 12 star players, and go all-in on them.
-
Considering Awakenings are very limited, along with all the gems and library investment and etc, yeah, you really probably want to go down to 12 party members and maybe one or two lesser invested swap-ins.
Also, out of curiosity, how's the new content on Long Grueling Bosses? Are we gonna see Shou's true potential or are most of them still fairly short to where you're not gonna really use rage counters?
-
Also, out of curiosity, how's the new content on Long Grueling Bosses? Are we gonna see Shou's true potential or are most of them still fairly short to where you're not gonna really use rage counters?
The Infinite Corridor's Abyss bosses are still pretty short, with a good attacker you can finish most of them in 5 or less attacks (assuming full buffs and elementalist/herbalist). The bosses from the main tree are a bit better with Dragon God, ***WINNER*** and King of Chaos having quite a bit of HP, so it takes a while to take them down (somewhere between 20-30 attacks, depending on your attackers and levels). Of particular note would be the Man of Fundoshi fight, where he has several forms each with their own HP, finishing in a damage race, the first form is very tame so you can technically stall until the rage counter is high enough.
-
I've still a ways to go through, up to
Abyss Komachi, Corridor 140f
, but thus far, Ryujin-sama took 19 hits of World Creation Press to take down, while the Corridor bosses have been 2-3 hits of weakness. Ryujin-sama is definitely harder than any of the previous Plus Disk bosses imo. After Abyss Komachi I intend to do Red Hero & Green Brute.
Some HP numbers of the bosses I've seen thus far
Ryujin-sama: 99.9m (level 512)
Abyss Rumia: 37m (level 609)
Abyss Cirno: 24.9m (level 644)
Abyss Minoriko: 47m (level 678)
Abyss Komachi: 137m (level 713)
Red Hero: 79m (level 724)
Green Brute: 125m (level 728)
Shredding Thing: 187m (level 866)
Chanting Thing: 146m (level 877)
Observing Thing: 227m (level 888)
***WINNER***: 330m (level 1000)
Regarding Abyss Komachi, even though she has 137m HP she goes down in 2-3 hits of World Creation Press lol
-
Regarding Abyss Komachi, even though she has 137m HP she goes down in 2-3 hits of World Creation Press lol
She is unbelievably weak to Nature from my experience. I actually checked her page for the first time and sure enough, she's not as weak to Fire as Wind/Nature. She's also weak to Mystic, huh. My Patchy did around ~30something million to her with a Grand Incantation'd Satellite Himawari.
Also, I pretty much agree with Libra's assessment of the new bosses in terms of tankiness. A lot of these Corridor bosses are extremely fast to go down. Of note, the one I'm at now, Wriggle, is extremely tanky compared to everything else. I'm probably doing something wrong though.
-
Judging from her 3f incarnation, it's probably a 60 NTR affinity. But the MYS weakness is something neither the 3f or the regular Shadow version had, weird. Incidentally, I hit 100m with World Creation Press as my highest, and that isn't even like, 3x Scourge for max damage.
-
According to some random things I found from a Chinese guy's rambling, apparently as you go higher up in infinity corridor enemy "weakness" affinities get lower.
-
Man, the Shock Attack on the
Red & Green pair
afflicts SHK even at 165 resistance, what a pain.
-
Yeah, just looked at it and
the Man of Fundoshi has 925m HP in total (between all of his forms).
-
just how much do the stat boosting gems/high boosts really actually matter? I'm also finding it hard to keep playing as I've been, library levels are getting expensive enough and all these consumable items/awakenings in general are making it tough to swap party members around, feeling like I really better just find 12 star players, and go all-in on them.
I can give you a comparison to decide on how much of a difference having jewels makes so you can draw your own conclusion if it sounds worth it for you.
My level 990 Mokou with 900 Library investments and full level up bonuses in HP has 746K HP, 253K ATK, 143K DEF, 143K MND and 5496 SPD. With full jewels she has 892K HP, 309K ATK, 200K DEF, 200K MND and 7287 SPD. From my perspective it's enough of an advantage that it was worth the effort though not everyone will feel the same.
Boost 2 skills provide essentially double the base stat increase that normal boost skills do, with speed being the one exception. Mega boost skills provide a 1.5x increase over the boost 2 skill, with speed once again being the exception. It's worth noting however that you need enough skill points for level 3 in a boost 2 skill for them to be worth using over level 5 in a normal boost skill and level 4 in a mega boost skill for it to be worth using over level 5 in a boost 2 skill.
I personally see awakenings as less of a "I'm now obligated to use so and so character because I've given them this currently limited in quantity item" and rather as a "This character has a useful role and their extra skills help them do that role much better so when I need or want to use them, I think their future contributions will be worth the investment." I imagine most people who play labyrinth tend to gravitate towards the same usual characters as everyone has their own playstyle and characters that work well with it or perhaps they just like the characters, so simply giving them to people you often use isn't a bad idea either. That's just my two cents on the matter though.
-
I feel they're worth it. I've set out to get as many gems as I can (pretty passively, b11 just hands em over as I grind anyway) and upgrade at LEAST to tier 2 boosts as top priority. I also went and picked up a MGL by streaking IC and buying one with star remnants. For what it's worth, I'm making progress more rapidly than I figured. Managed to take out a couple extra bosses.
-
So regarding the last boss on f29,
I've found out why you need to kill/delay the King of Chaos' summons, they can cast Mediarahan Ultimate Recovery, which does exactly as its name implies and completely heals the King and its summons to full HP. The King himself will use Ultimate Recovery once his HP falls below a threshold (I believe its around 80-85% HP), but he only does it once, on the other hand, his summons will cast Ultimate Recovery every set amount of turns (approximately 15 turns). So if you can't kill the King before his summons reach the turn threshold, all your progress will be gone (unless, of course, you kill the summons before they reach it). The King himself also has a very powerful single target DRK attack that he uses every set amount of turns (around 10 I think) that hits your leftmost slot and is almost guaranteed to one shot them; also, each time the King uses Gaea Rage, he'll permanently buff all his stats by 20% the next turn before starting to summon again. Overall this means that you can't rush his summons because then he uses Gaea Rage and buffs himself, but you can't leave them around for too long either or they'll heal him.
His summons stats, for reference:
[attach=1]
-
I'm utterly disappointed that the summons used silhouettes of generic LoT2 monsters instead of the actual demons
-
The reward you get for defeating the
King of Chaos is the King's Reason as expected, on the other hand, the reward for the "defeat all f29 bosses" achievement is just a bunch of money.
-
Got
Red Hero and Green Brute
down, what a rough fight. Red Hero's gimmick is that he'll switch weapons every several turns, the FIR one is a devastating single-target attack that seems to favor each slot equally. That one was really notable for me because after doing one round as a proof of concept for the intended strategy without encountering trouble, in the second one that I tried to record he equipped the FIR weapon and proceeded to one-shot Iku in the 4th slot. Had to adjust equipment to prevent something like that from happening, and then I messed up on defeating them simultaneously, taking out the Green Brute first when Red Hero was one hit away from defeat. Red Hero proceeded to restore himself to half HP, apply a 20% all-stat buff that further increased after a few turns, and gained Regeneration at the start of each turn!
Green Brute, on the other hand, seems to mainly use Shock Attack a lot and a strong PHY attack on the 1st slot every set number of turns. The second time he uses it, he applies a 100% Boost on the turn prior. Shock Attack is also highly accurate in its status affliction rate and procs even 165 SHK resistance. 200+ is safe though. He also applies a 100% DEF buff at the start of the fight and reapplies it in a set number of turns I believe.
-
I found those two rather easy because I'm using Nitori. Nitori absolutely CRUSHES redboi when all-in on attack, and then you can fight greenie alone, who is much easier than both at once even if he "enrages."
Also, out of curiosity, how's the new content on Long Grueling Bosses? Are we gonna see Shou's true potential or are most of them still fairly short to where you're not gonna really use rage counters?
It's half-and-half. A lot of the new bosses are extremely durable, but at the same time they do -incredible- damage or otherwise have gimmicks that will steer you into the same old melting strategies anyway. You want them DEAD before they smear even full-specced tanks across the wall with nigh-unsurvivable attacks, and before your "squishy" damage dealers all drop like flies to party attacks. Shou WOULD be able to use rage. ...Presuming the tank/she can last more than a few rounds anyway, and that's before the boss tries to drop its "this character straight effin dies" move it's got in store.
Overall, I don't actually like this part of the game that entirely much. Strategy seems pretty one dimensional and in favor of extreme solutions. It's powerplay with the absolute hardest hitting combos or die, most of the time. Wipe them before they wipe you, 'cause so many WILL just wipe you.
-
Didn't even try to fight them solo powered up, maybe that way would've been easier. I ended up doing another run due to recording issues I hadn't noticed, went a bit smoother this time, even though
Iku unexpectedly defeated Red Hero with Magic Counter, that was dangerous.
-
I'm uploading my fight against
the three Deformed bosses at once on 29F. I maybe could've done otherwise, but I handled the fight as a damage rush. I even hit a personal highest damage number of 155m from Patchy with Start of Heavenly Demise. Sakuya's Private Square Awakening buff really came in handy for this fight. I don't really know just how much of an impact it had, but it definitely helped. I probably should've subbed her as Enhancer instead of Warrior though. After this fight, it's back to farming the Infinite Corridor for a while to max out all gems/orbs and get a ton of tomes, since I want to do a ton of the Corridor floors at once this time to get more dust, and also because I feel I'll need the stuff to fight ***WINNER*** and Not Rinnosuke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDUNH4OaMMk&feature=youtu.be I ended up restarting from the Game Over screen just because it was convenient.
-
Did anybody find any way to get Iron Man's Headband (or the items you craft with it) besides Infinite Corridor? So far, I only found an enemy on 29F which has a very low chance to drop Medicine of Life
-
I think the infinite corridor is your only hope for those. Same for Machine God Lucifers, but those almost feel not worth the effort to get at this point.
-
There is a single Iron Man's Headband in a locked treasure chest on 30f, otherwise yeah Corridor only. There's also a Tupsimati on 30f in another locked treasure chest.
If I'm not mistaken, this should be the full 30f map as of the current update: https://i.imgur.com/UKVjtUz.png. Loads of room for future updates.
So the Embodiment of Purity turned out to just be a random 30f mob. Strange that it was finished earlier than the other 30f enemies. All of the 30f mobs are weak to WND and NTR besides Metallic Kedama, level range is 766-820.
Back to Corridor grinding then.
-
I suppose none of the three rocks on 30F are passable then?
-
As of the current update, no. Based on 3peso's update notes, the red rocks should be removed from the game on the 1.105 update. The other two rocks are for the Infinite Corridor (right rock) and a switch within an inaccessible part of 30f (top rock). I would presume that the red rock may be blocking the path to this switch.
This would leave three blockades of particular interest. Ryujin-sama is obviously on 30f, but what lies past the Corridor blockade, and what is in B11f?
-
Recorded the fights against
King of Chaos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XnKIVISqc4 and Disaster Embracing Dark Lord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdVoM_MZL3g&t=112s .
-
After getting Magic Sword "Chaos", I wanted to see the maximum amount of damage possible by Tenshi on
Abyss Chen
, using Dragon God's Power. So with Divine Falchion, Magic Sword "Chaos", and 2x Scourge, and the usual buffs and damage boosting skills, the result was as such: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vr85dCZ7Gw&t=1m0s
It's not truly the maximum amount of damage possible (DEF/MND buffs aren't maxed, 0 Keystones of Spirit counters), but close enough. 250% of her HP, 115m damage on a 45m target. Chen, this is what happens when you try to fight without Ran.
Would be interesting to see how other characters handle it, like Nitori (+30% CLD skill plus her usual brokenness), Tokiko (highest combined ATK/MAG), or Akyuu (Super Incantation), among others. This is a really strong subclass!
-
So far I've been using Dragon God on Kokoro (alongside Nitori for the +30% CLD), and it deals absurd amounts of damage. I'm sure Tokiko would do more, but I have WINNER on Tokiko, so...
... speaking of which, WINNER is a really amazing class. Sure, none of its spells, alone, are stronger than Dragon's Breath. However, they give you a surprising amount of versatility. Vorpal Blade is strong enough to be used as a standard single-target WND attack, Sword of Light pierces through almost any defenses, and Wand of Destruction wastes away anything not immune to all statuses. Between WINNER and Dragon God, Murakumo almost feels like a "second rate" subclass now^^ I mean, sure, it's still quite damn good, but the main problem is that, since it lacks composite attacks, you are generally stuck either with a weak Murakumo Slash or a weak Start of Heavenly Demise (sorta like the same issue with Suwako's moveset).
On another note, now that I defeated most of the bosses in the new patch, I'm starting to theorymon again for what team is the best for "infinite progression" - like WINNER farming in TL1, basically. Many of the same concepts still apply in TL2 as well, I think:
1) You generally want a tanky character on the left, a healer (possibly AoE) on the right, and two damage dealers in the center
2) You kinda need to be a bit bulky, and to be immune to as many statuses as possible - which is why I'm planning to equip most characters with 2 MGL + Medicine of Life and Tokugawa Statue. Sure, better items will eventually come around but it seems to me that this is the most balanced combo atm, especially for mixed attackers. Medicine of Life, in particular, provides you not only with insane bulk, but also near immunity to the most deadly status ailments (paralysis, silence, death and poison). Notably, it still leaves you uncovered against FIR/CLD/WND/NTR attacks, but I don't see how to patch it without giving up a huge amount of stats
However, I see also a major difference. In TL1, when it came to damage dealers, the main focus was on non-elemental nukers, and in general anything with really high multipliers, regardless of the element. Nitori, Youmu, Yuyuko, Shikieiki and the like were a must for any serious WINNER team (Suwako could work too, but she was a bit too frail IMO, and let's not even touch on Kaguya). Literally, once you had your tanks (2-3 between Keine, Ran, and Yukari), and your healers (Reimu and Minoriko), it was as simple as stacking as many of these nukers as possible, and throw them all at WINNER until either he died or you did.
In TL2, however, elements do matter. Unlike in TL1, where WINNER had no weaknesses, in TL2 weaknesses are a concern, and they shift throughout battles too. So, you generally want not only to have as many nukers as possible, but to have them spread throughout as many elements as possible. Given that running a tank + 2 DPS + healer set up is still advisable, though (I personally recommend Renko and Maribel, especially since Renko's status resistance ability allows you to "cap" your chars without overinvesting on items), you generally don't get to field entire "families" - though with Kinship boosts after awakening, that's less of an issue.
The problem, here, is that not all elements have it equally easy. Some elements, like PHY, SPI and DRK, have an abundance of nukers. Furthermore, any char can be turned into a SPI nuke thanks to Murakumo subclass. But some elements have much less choice available. With that in mind, I was thinking about compiling a list of plausible nukers for each element (not counting subclasses, ofc), trying to cover each element with at least two characters. I'll prolly come up with a more detailed list/analysis in the next days.
EDIT: Is it an oversight of the wiki, or does Koishi not get Proof of Kinship when awakened?
-
Well, for what it's worth, Murakumo's Blessing backed World Creation Press is still stronger for NTR damage than Dragon God's Breath. Murakumo's Blessing is more for powering up a character's innate spell cards. Though, is Sword of Light actually stronger than Murakumo Slash or Start of Heavenly Demise? Doesn't really seem like it is.
As for Koishi, she really doesn't get Proof of Kinship. Probably an oversight?
-
From my experience, Sword of Light seems powerful in the right hands, especially since it's a composite spell that ignores some defense. In my Team 9 thing, I gave the WINNER title to Cirno (having previously had Dragon God's Protection) while Murakumo's Blessing went to Mystia. Sword of Light was annihilating B11F enemies, so yeah, I'd say it's pretty good.
...Also yes, I beat ***WINNER*** with only Team 9. It may have required getting everyone nearly to level 1000, but it happened. Three more 29F bosses and a whole lot of corridor to go, to the point I might just wait a bit and go back to an old regular run. I want to try some other folk out, plus super postgame is extraordinarily rough for only four people.
-
I'm not sure if I misunderstand how Marisa's Hakkero Charge works but she's supposed to build the counter while she's in the reserve party right? I noticed on an earlier page that someone said the skill works properly now but I've been testing it and it doesn't seem to work for me unless she takes a turn while on the field, unless I'm just incorrectly interpreting what the "back" means in the skill description.
-
I'm not sure if I misunderstand how Marisa's Hakkero Charge works but she's supposed to build the counter while she's in the reserve party right? I noticed on an earlier page that someone said the skill works properly now but I've been testing it and it doesn't seem to work for me unless she takes a turn while on the field, unless I'm just incorrectly interpreting what the "back" means in the skill description.
You're right, my bad. I assumed the patch note about Marisa's Hakkero Charge was fixing the assumed bug with it not working in the back row, but interestingly I noticed the description is different now too, and it's a 4% boost with a 25 stack cap rather than a 3% with a 33 cap. Maybe it's only supposed to work on the front row, and the text is what's wrong?
EDIT: Her other Awakening Skill has been boosted to a 25% damage increase too, huh.
-
You're right, my bad. I assumed the patch note about Marisa's Hakkero Charge was fixing the assumed bug with it not working in the back row, but interestingly I noticed the description is different now too, and it's a 4% boost with a 25 stack cap rather than a 3% with a 33% stat cap. Maybe it's only supposed to work on the front row, and the text is what's wrong?
EDIT: Her other Awakening Skill has been boosted to a 25% damage increase too, huh.
No worries I was just confused if there was some circumstance I wasn't figuring out. I wouldn't be surprised if it's only meant to work from the front as it working from the back and never decreasing sounds almost too good to be true.
-
Looking at the patch notes, it seems the only thing that was stated about Marisa's Awakening skills was that they were buffed. 25% more damage with Custom Mode is pretty nice.
-
I'm not sure if I misunderstand how Marisa's Hakkero Charge works but she's supposed to build the counter while she's in the reserve party right? I noticed on an earlier page that someone said the skill works properly now but I've been testing it and it doesn't seem to work for me unless she takes a turn while on the field, unless I'm just incorrectly interpreting what the "back" means in the skill description.
I'm pretty sure its supposed to be a bug, the whole point of Charge mode is that you can have Marisa safely in the back powering up and then have her come out when the Boss is close to death to use her +100% damage Master Spark to finish him off.
-
Alright, so I've done everything but the last floor 29 boss. Been to floor 250 of infinity corridor, been everywhere on floor 30. Am I to assume that the "feel a presence deep in infinity" rock is impassible right now, and I've done everything except that last boss in the current patch?
-
That appears to be the case, yeah.
-
I was thinking, people generally use Satori for her Spellcard Recollection ability, but she might be an excellent candidate for Dragon God's Power. Besides her good mixed offenses, in fact, Satori deals a significant +60% damage when targetting a weakness, once she's awakened. And Dragon's Sigh just happens to almost always hit a weakness.
-
Of note, the one I'm at now, Wriggle, is extremely tanky compared to everything else. I'm probably doing something wrong though.
Got up to Abyss Wriggle now as well, going to run her later but she has 165m HP, for comparison Abyss Nitori has 60m and Abyss Parsee has 67m.
-
Just found out that ***WINNER*** only respawns once, after defeating him a second time he didn't reappear (maybe have to wait till the next patch)
-
Just found out that ***WINNER*** only respawns once, after defeating him a second time he didn't reappear (maybe have to wait till the next patch)
That was... unexpected.
Anyway, I'm considering the following team for ***WINNER***
farming:
Renko [Strategist] / Ran [Transcendent] / Yukari [Transcendent] / Maribel [Transcendent]
Reimu [Strategist] / Tokiko [WINNER] / Miko [Transcendent] / Chen [Warrior]
Sanae [Strategist] / Nitori [Transcendent] / Yuuka [Dragon God] / Kanako [Murakumo]
This way I have a good pair for almost every element (to be used alongside Renko and Maribel):
FIR: Chen (Phoenix Spread Wings) + Ran (Ran doesn't rly provide extra Fire damage but can at least power up Chen with Concentration and use buffs, allowing Renko to regenerate MP)
CLD: Nitori (Kappa Illusion Waterfall) + Kanako (Beautiful Spring Like Suiga)
WND: Yukari (Hyperactive Flying Object) + Kanako (Virtue of Wind God) or Tokiko (Vorpal Blade)
NTR: Nitori (Extending Arm) + Yuuka (Flower Shot)
MYS: Yuuka (Master Spark) + ... something, depending on the situation. Possibly a mage like Kanako or Yukari on auto-attack
SPI: Miko (Tradition of Just Rewards) + Tokiko (Sword of Light). Possibly swapping Renko and Maribel for Sanae and Reimu for the Spirit boost and to power up Tokiko
DRK: Miko (Tradition of Just Rewards) + Maribel (Chaotic Quadruple Barrier). Swapping Reimu in too, in order to allow Maribel to go on the offense
PHY: Yukari (Shikigami +) + Ran (Soaring El Ozuno)
I considered alternative builds (especially over Yakumo family), but they tended to either miss an element or to have other issues. Earth Spirit Palace Party provides FIR and MYS nukes, for example, but I'm not fully convinced by Satori, and Koishi lacks Proof of Kinship which weakens her significantly. Eientei provides again MYS damage but tends to be pretty fragile. Other families lack Proof of Kinship, like Youkai Mountain Alliance and the Oni. Generally, the problem seems to be with FIR, CLD and MYS - other elements tend to be relatively easier to fill.
-
3peso posted some things on Twitter. Summarizing it, he expresses gratitude to all the people sending their thoughts, bug reports, and etc regarding the 1.104 update. He also wants to make a patch to fix problems with 1.104 before releasing 1.105. Then goes on to say that, when the party or enemy level exceeds 4 digits, some issues with balancing SPD arise, using Chen as an example. He explains that, although he spends a lot of time playtesting bosses with as many characters as he can, he may not properly envision what everyone is going to realistically be using each character for boss fights in practice, and as a result, he feels that some of the ideas he may have with balancing the characters may be the product of theorycrafting based on numbers. He ends by expressing that he would very much appreciate it if players could send their input via e-mail, Twitter replies, etc.
Seems like a good time to critically think about the game's balance and try to talk to him about it.
-
I dunno if it's what you and 3Peso mean, but one thing I've noticed on TL1 (and which I started to notice here in TL2 too, now that levels are getting high) is that speed and delays become progressively less important. Due to the way the action bar ticks, in fact, it really makes no difference, at higher levels, if your attack has, say, 7000 or 8500 delay most times, because in both cases it's gonna be just one tick to 10000+. This, by the way, also hurts the viability of characters, like Chen, whose entire strategy post-Awakening revolves around hitting multiple times before others act. As levels increase, you will in fact get less and less opportunities to fire off said quick attacks, and thus to increase Chen's damage output. If you also consider that said chars also tend to be frailer in the long run, it can really hurts their viability vis-?-vis bulkier stay-in attackers - who only get better as your level increases.
This, by the way, is an issue which really affects all "speedsters" - not just Chen, but also Marisa, Rin, Aya and so on. I honestly don't see many ways to correct it, though, other than maybe to make sure said chars have a use which does away with their speed. Chen, for example, does not need to abuse its gimmick in order to deal considerable damage, and very few FIR attackers compare to her dmg-wise. Similarly, even not counting her speed, Marisa remains a very powerful MYS attacker. Aya, on the other hand, feels a bit less solid - there's much more choice in terms of powerful WND attackers, like Suika, Iku, Kanako, or literally anything using the WINNER subclass.
A bit more subtly, though, this also affect chars whose viability depends on benefitting from (or enabling) fast switch ins. Rinnosuke, Keine, Kogasa, Suwako etc. all become progressively less impactful as levels arise and speed increases.
-
A more permanent solution would be to adjust the entire ATB system in such a way that it doesn't turn into turn-based system with enough SPD (for example, instead of using a fixed post-use delay regardless of how much ATB the character has at the turn, reduce it by a fixed amount instead). Not sure if he wants to change the game so radically though.
-
My idea would be to change SPD to be a stat simila to EVA (fixed amount per character, can only increase through skills, equipment and maybe gems), though its probably unviable due to how much it would change the system. I feel that any changes that help to permanently adress the SPD problem would end up being pretty big changes.
On another hand, I would say that Chen's skill should probably just be changed, the concept kinda encourages making your other characters to be as slow as possible to empower Chen, which I just feel is a bit wonky.
-
Here's how I'd do it. Change ATB ticks to be relative to the fastest person. On entering combat, check for fastest character among enemies and players whole team, accounting for gear but not skills/buffs, and set their ATB rate to, as an example, 200 per tick(lowest delay is 9820 I believe, which is Reisen's elixir with monk subclass). Everyone else has their ATB rate set relative to that based on their own speed. Speed buffs directly increase how much ATB you gain. 100% speed buff on the fastest person will make them gain 400 per tick while everyone else still gains the same amount. Might require dedicated switchers or rethinking what gear you equip though. For example, in my team, my fastest character is Aya with 5094 while my slowest is Alice with 1059. None of Alice's equips have speed bonus in them though which now becomes important for her since she has some staying power with all that evasion and relatively high hp compared to a lot of characters. However, this could change depending on how fast enemies are since they'll be similarly slow.
-
If it were my game, I'd have just cooled down on the leveling speeds and kept the level numbers, and therefore stats, lower across the board. I don't see any real good reason for having chunks of the plusdisk portion of the game jump by dozens or even hundreds of levels at a time, and I don't see a good reason for why the party needs to get 10-30 levelups in a dungeon dive or two. If the first 12+ hours of the game on the first 20 floors can contain itself through levels 1-100, then the next 20 floors can go to 300-400 tops, I say.
-
I dunno if it's what you and 3Peso mean, but one thing I've noticed on TL1 (and which I started to notice here in TL2 too, now that levels are getting high) is that speed and delays become progressively less important.
3peso didn't go into detail, but I believe that everything you said here is exactly what he had in mind in regards to balancing SPD. Like, I'm only low level 700 (with 800 library) atm, but Aya and Sanae are acting at the same time with a 9K SPD gap. It's only going to get more silly as the levels increase.
I'm going over what I want to bring up with 3peso, presently I've got, ordered as I think of them
-Fixing the way healing interacts with damage reducing skills. This is the problem with how damage reducing skills like Aya's Ability to Manipulate Wind or Quartz Charm's -20% damage reduction effect also reduce healing. In particular, Reimu's Exorcising Border + Armored Yin-Yang Orb, and Rumia's Demarcation + Realm of Eternal Darkness are instances where the character's own skill reduces their healing power. This does not affect % based heals such as Rinnosuke's Awakening spell card Precise Experience, only ones that scale off the user's ATK and/or MAG.
-Similarly, fixing how skills that boost elemental damage, such as Froggy Power and Blazing, boost the enemy's healing power, like with Photosynthesis and Regeneration.
-Akyuu's Awakening spell card Miare's Great Knowledge presently also has the effect of Protecting Art of Wisdom. Although this is likely a bug, I think it's very useful this way, and would like it to be made an intended effect of the spell card.
-Generally speaking, in the current state of Plus Disk, player DEF and MND has a small effect on reducing damage for most attacks against bosses. Because raising HP and affinities has a strong effect in increasing durability, this does not appear to cause any serious balance problems, but I would like to bring it to attention anyway due to the effects it has on character balance.
-Regarding the effectiveness of Keine's History Accumulation, I believe that the bonuses take too long to accumulate. In particular, for using Keine as an attacker, Sword is too weak to be worth accumulating. I would like to see the effect of the Awakening skill Ability to Create History adjusted so that it strengthens the effect of the Sword and Mirror counters.
-Regarding the effectiveness of Keine's skill Impervious Formation Change, by the time that it is acquired, ATB accumulation is already close to 700+ per tick, making the skill only slightly superior to Effective Formation Change. I would like to see some kind of improvement to the skill, such as giving improved delay to Keine after switching, an HP/MP recovery effect, or a stat buff effect.
-I would like to see Keine's spell cards Ancient History -Old History- and New History -Next History- have their maximum levels increased from 5 to 9.
-Regarding the subclass Dragon God's Power, it appears that its Elemental Ring passive skills are bugged and are nonfunctional.
-The boss Shadow Hata no Kokoro does not have a sprite.
-Koishi does not get Proof of Kinship from her Awakening.
-Iku's offensive abilities are somewhat lesser than that of other characters. I think raising her offensive spell card levels to 7 is sufficient. Another idea is to adjust the Awakening skill Orb of the Five Clawed Dragon to buff Iku's personal spell cards, but the loss of the MAG boost would reduce Iku's ability to use subclass spells like Start of Heavenly Demise.
-Regarding skills like Iku's Hisouten Guard and Mokou's With Keine, which boost DEF and MND, the effect of the skills tends to be low. I would like to see some kind of adjustment to make the skills more effective.
-The skills Maintenance and Prince Shotoku's Out-of-Place Artifact appear to be a little too strong. Perhaps they should be nerfed?
-When Mokou is defeated and her max HP is reduced to 1 by HP reduction effects, Resurrection puts her at 0 HP, which causes her to activate Resurrection again every time a character acts in battle (friend and foe) until she runs out of TP. I believe this is not how the skill should work, so I would like to see Resurrection set Mokou to a minimum of 1 HP.
-Miko's spell card Wishful Soul of Desire is very weak. I would like to see its healing power buffed.
-I would like to see some of the lower HP characters receive HP buffs. When facing powerful VOI attacks, especially ones following Space-Time Warp, it can be difficult for them to survive even if specifically set up to try to. This is especially true for Kaguya, who is weak to VOI. As the only stats to defend against VOI are HP and DEF/MND, and DEF/MND generally has a low effect in Plus Disk, HP becomes almost the sole defense against VOI. Alternatively, giving low HP characters some VOI resistance would mitigate this.
-Regarding Tenshi's skill Kusanagi's Former Owner, I would like to see the requirement of having a debuff or status removed. The Healer subclass skill Emergency Treatment is a 4% HP recovery effect per turn, so it does not seem to make sense that Tenshi's Kusanagi's Former Owner, which is 5% HP recovery per turn, has such a strict requirement.
-I would like to see Suwako's skill Earth Creation buffed. Presently, it is a 36% damage increase if Suwako is in the leftmost slot. Kanako's skill Sky Creation is a 32% damage increase if she is in the rightmost slot. The increased danger of the leftmost slot, and Suwako's general frailty, make it seem very strange that Earth Creation is only a 4% higher damage increase than Kanako's Sky Creation.
-Regarding the combination of Sanae's skills Youkai Buster, Power of the Living God, and Awakening skill Super Youkai Buster, I believe the overall damage increase is a little too high for Youkai bosses that are weak to SPI. There are many bosses like this, so it has a strong effect when combined with powerful SPI attacks from other characters. This may warrant a nerf.
-I would like to see Reisen's spell card Gas-Woven Orb receive a buffed PSN effect and lowered delay. It currently is not very useful, but I think that by buffing its PSN duration, and reducing the delay, it can be useful for PSN and activating Final Blow at the same time.
-Regarding Mystia's skill Soothing Type?, I would like to see it changed to have multiple levels, and restore 1 MP per level. As it currently is, it does not restore enough MP to be very useful. If it were to restore, say, 3 MP, it would make it more useful than the Magician subclass' spell card Magic Transfer, but allows Mystia to use another subclass and fulfill multiple roles.
-This is more "Because it would be interesting" than "Because it would be balanced", but I would like to see Rumia's Awakening skill All-covering Robe of Darkness buff her spell card Demarcation in some way.
-I would like to see the subclass spell card Iai Slash buffed. It is really weak even for a subclass spell card. Samidare Slash could use a small damage buff as well.
-I would like to see the Archmage's subclass spell cards Southern Cross and Execution buffed. The damage is too low for boss fights, and the MP cost is too high for random encounters. I would like for the damage to be increased, the MP cost to be reduced, or both.
-In general, ATK based subclass spell cards seem to be much more versatile and useful than MAG based subclass spell cards, for offensive purposes. For example, ATK has the subclass spells Explosive Flame Sword, Puncturing Thrust, Iron Mountain Charge, and Assassination Sword, and for characters with high ATK and DEF, Shield Bash can be strong too. But for MAG, only Aspiration Surge is strong for bosses, and the rest are debilitating effects or are unsuitable for bosses. This creates a bit of an imbalance in that characters that can use ATK spell cards effectively have more ways to strike a boss' weakness than characters that primarily use MAG spell cards. If Penetrator, Southern Cross, and Execution were more suitable for boss fights, then this issue could be alleviated. I believe that this is intentional though.
-I would like to see the Ninja subclass skills Lacquered Stones and Roughneck's Wisdom buffed. As they currently are, they are weaker than Transcendent's Enhanced Combat skill, despite the requirement of the target being afflicted by a status effect. Because the conditions for activation are more strict, I believe the effect should be stronger.
-I would like to see the subclasses Swordmaster and Archmage buffed. They are generally inferior to Warrior and Sorcerer and have little reason to be used. Their stats, while higher, do not compensate for the loss of the skills, and their unique subclass spells are not very useful outside of Swordmaster's Moon Shadow Flash. By buffing these subclasses, they can be brought up to a level of usefulness more comparable to Warrior and Sorcerer.
That's about everything I can think of that I feel confident on. Thought about bringing up buffing Shou's Bishamonten's Rage (increase the effect of each counter and lower the cap) and adjusting Nazrin's Wits of the Tiny Clever General (reduce the effect, but make it consistent instead of random), but I don't feel familiar enough with them to confidently say "Yes, this is how to make the character more balanced and appealing to use".
-
On the topic of Maintenance and OOPART, I agree that Nitori may be a little too strong (which is ironic since she was already the strongest nuke by far in TL1), but Miko is overall balanced IMO, considering her rly low levelling rate. I also kinda agree with the buffing of Swordmaster/Archmage subclasses - right now, I literally find no reason to use them over Transcendent.
Also, Kokoro might need some buffing as well
-
Do any characters have the skills to increase Wind damage and reduce Nature damage taken yet? If they aren't implemented it could be worth mentioning them in case 3peso forgot.
-
On the topic of Maintenance and OOPART, I agree that Nitori may be a little too strong (which is ironic since she was already the strongest nuke by far in TL1), but Miko is overall balanced IMO, considering her rly low levelling rate. I also kinda agree with the buffing of Swordmaster/Archmage subclasses - right now, I literally find no reason to use them over Transcendent.
Also, Kokoro might need some buffing as well
Hm yeah, looking at Miko again, I was thinking that she was really silly durable, but doing another comparison, she's not that much more durable than other characters, not enough to be excessive. Maybe just nerf Nitori a little then. I'm not going to get into that though, since I don't use her. Someone that does would be in a better position to be able to say what kind of nerf Nitori needs that would be fair to her and fair to the rest of the cast. Same deal with buffing Kokoro, I know even less about her.
Do any characters have the skills to increase Wind damage and reduce Nature damage taken yet? If they aren't implemented it could be worth mentioning them in case 3peso forgot.
Not yet, and nobody has the racial damage bonuses for Dragon or Oni type enemies either. I figured they were intentionally omitted, but I might as well bring it up.
-
Thing I've come up with:
-There still are a few spellcards that don't get stronger due to levels (Eirin's Hourai Elixir, Magician's Magic Circuit and partially Aya's Divine Grandson's Advent), this should probably be addressed.
-They fixed Fuuto's Plate counter but I'm pretty sure Sakuya's Jack the Ripper's Silver Knife is still reduced by auxiliary spells, there's also still the Hakkoro Charge mode bug.
-There's a bug related to max MP reducing skills, when your max MP gets reduced to less than 1, your stats/damage seems to increase for some reason (its very weird and it technically only happens on the Toruastory fight since he's the only one who has max MP reducing moves).
-Yuyuko could probably use a buff, while having the most powerful DTH spell in the game is certainly a big boon, the rest of her kit is very lackluster: Ticket to the Ageless Land is overall pretty weak given the condition of activation, Banquet of Regrets' buffs are pretty useless given that you generally only abuse DTH in random battles that finish too fast for them to serve any actual purpose (more MP regen would be much better), Hakugyokurou's Mistress's True Power is very niche and finally, having no damage increasing skills hurts her greatly (there's no point to her having decent defensive capabilities if she can't do significant damage at all). The fact that she's one of the slowest characters doesn't really help either.
-Ran's buffing capabilities are kinda poor at the moment, due to high Skill point costs, she can't use her gimmick effectively during most of the main game, while on the other hand ,during Plus Disk most fights are either damage races or don't last long enough for her buffs to stack up.
-Komachi's awakening is extremely lackluster as pointed out by the wiki itself.
-Regarding Satori's offensive capabilities, the 25% damage loss because of lv0 spellcards should probably see more compensation than just 36% more damage when hitting weaknesses.
-I feel like maybe Maintenance could be nerfed so that it only affects stats and not things like elemental affinities, status resistances, MP or MP regen and so on, this creates more weaknesses (Nitori in particular because she has overall low status resistances, increased MP regen with Cooling Down is also kinda ridiculous).
-The Sealing Club skill is a bit too strong, not only do Mari and Renko get the standard stat boost, they also get a relatively powerful HP/MP regen effect.
-Youkai Mountain Alliance should probably be changed to grant lower boosts but work from the backline, the 4 members have overall really bad synergy between them (Hina in particular completely clashes with the other 3 members who all have very bad debuff resistance, Aya also makes it harder for Hina to stack her SPD debuff. ). And Momiji generally works best in the backline due to how useful Instant Attack is.
-Overall, I think that rebalancing certain chance based skills would be nice. One of the main offenders is Mokou's Resurrection having a 1% chance to fail, its unnecessary and just really annoying when it happens in the worst possible moment, I would rather prefer it have a higher TP cost but 100% chance to work (at least at max level); other examples are Ran's Kokkuri San's Contract or Pathouli's High Speed Aria, nerfing the increased effects but making them less RNG would make building actual strategies much easier.
-Postgame could really be better balanced, high DEF/MND enemies are really a problem since they make a lot of the cast useless. It also has the weakest exploration since the extra floors are literally huge expanses of nothing, its an absolute chore to go through them.
-
-Yuyuko could probably use a buff, while having the most powerful DTH spell in the game is certainly a big boon, the rest of her kit is very lackluster: Ticket to the Ageless Land is overall pretty weak given the condition of activation, Banquet of Regrets' buffs are pretty useless given that you generally only abuse DTH in random battles that finish too fast for them to serve any actual purpose (more MP regen would be much better), Hakugyokurou's Mistress's True Power is very niche and finally, having no damage increasing skills hurts her greatly (there's no point to her having decent defensive capabilities if she can't do significant damage at all). The fact that she's one of the slowest characters doesn't really help either.
I've not tested her yet in the postgame, but in TL1 she was still one of the most powerful attackers in the game (by far the strongest offensive mage), because even if her stats were just above average, Flawless Nirvana had an absurd 900% MAG - 150% MND modifier. Now, TL2 Flawless Nirvana isn't THAT strong, but it still looks quite damn powerful, reaching almost 400% MAG (that's on par with Yuuka's Master Spark, to give you an idea). I would imagine that, as DEF/MND matters less at high levels, just like in TL1 - and with speed being less of an issue compared to the main game - Yuyuko should be able to dish out solid damage. Notably, though, TL2 Flawless Nirvana has a horrid 6% delay, whereas in TL1 it had a very respectable 40% which made up for Yuyuko's low speed.
Maybe, giving Flawless Nirvana a 40% delay in TL2 as well would be enough?
-Ran's buffing capabilities are kinda poor at the moment, due to high Skill point costs, she can't use her gimmick effectively during most of the main game, while on the other hand ,during Plus Disk most fights are either damage races or don't last long enough for her buffs to stack up.
This is true basically for patch 1.103 content, but the newest patch introduced a lot of bosses which, from my experience, were quite damn durable. Plus, unlike in TL1, Ran isn't limited to buffing. Her Soaring El Ozuno does quite solid damage with very little delay, and her mixed stats allow Ran to employ any of the unique subclasses to decent effect. I do agree that she's not that great in the early game, but by the time you get Yukari and complete the Yakumo family, Ran is more than good enough from my experience.
-I feel like maybe Maintenance could be nerfed so that it only affects stats and not things like elemental affinities, status resistances, MP or MP regen and so on, this creates more weaknesses (Nitori in particular because she has overall low status resistances, increased MP regen with Cooling Down is also kinda ridiculous).
I don't think Maintenance as a skill needs to be changed. It's more that Nitori has a ridiculous 625% ATK - 125% DEF nuke on top of it. I dunno if you tried Miko, but she's quite balanced - good, yes, but she doesn't dish out the same unreal numbers Nitori pulls. To be honest, all I did if I were 3peso would be lowering Super Scope to 400% ATK - 100% DEF.
-The Sealing Club skill is a bit too strong, not only do Mari and Renko get the standard stat boost, they also get a relatively powerful HP/MP regen effect.
I do agree that the Sealing Club is strong, but to be honest not enough to warrant a nerf IMO. I mean, both Renko and Maribel get quite a decent competition in terms of buffing tanks (Byakuren, Ran, Sanae) and magic users (more than I can count). While the MP regen is good, keep in mind that Renko in particular has really high MP consumption, and was probably balanced with that skill in mind.
-Youkai Mountain Alliance should probably be changed to grant lower boosts but work from the backline, the 4 members have overall really bad synergy between them (Hina in particular completely clashes with the other 3 members who all have very bad debuff resistance, Aya also makes it harder for Hina to stack her SPD debuff. ). And Momiji generally works best in the backline due to how useful Instant Attack is.
As I explained above, Instant Attack and switching in general just don't work in TL2, much like they stopped working well in TL1 once you got past lvl 500 or so. At those really high levels, most if not all your chars will be play with a "stay in" approach - which Momiji is quite good at, to be honest. If anything, I believe the main issue with the family is Hina, for the same reasons you pointed out. I really tried to make this family work, but Hina is always the one which doesn't fit.
-Postgame could really be better balanced, high DEF/MND enemies are really a problem since they make a lot of the cast useless. It also has the weakest exploration since the extra floors are literally huge expanses of nothing, its an absolute chore to go through them.
Which postgame are you talking about here? The original one I'm guessing? If so, yeah, it could probably use some rebalancing since it was built around the (now nerfed) Gambler subclass.
-
Hm yeah, looking at Miko again, I was thinking that she was really silly durable, but doing another comparison, she's not that much more durable than other characters, not enough to be excessive. Maybe just nerf Nitori a little then. I'm not going to get into that though, since I don't use her. Someone that does would be in a better position to be able to say what kind of nerf Nitori needs that would be fair to her and fair to the rest of the cast. Same deal with buffing Kokoro, I know even less about her.
As I explained while answering to Libra, the main problem with Nitori right now is that Super Scope is simply too powerful - to give you an idea, while fighting Maribel's three "demons", Aria Singing Toruastory and the other two
, Maribel was doing around 20M per Tradition of Just Rewards, while Nitori's Super Scope was dealing well over 50M. Frankly, I think having the skill modifier set at 400% ATK - 100% DEF would still preserve Nitori's spot as the best physical attacker in the game, without making her feel almost like a cheat on boss fights.
As for Kokoro, the problem is that she really doesn't work as good in practice as she might on paper. The mask buff is way too small. Her damage output without the mask self buff is actually pitiful, by the way (with Dragon Breath she was doing about as much dmg on enemies as Nitori with Kappa Waterfall, for crying out loud). Her own composite spell hits less hard than Reimu's Fantasy Seal, and has a bad delay to boot. Literally, her only relevant role is spamming Kagura Lion once you got the Mask power online - but even then, there are so many good physical sweepers in the game that she just isn't worth it.
What she prolly needs is either a significant buff of her spellcards, or some brand new skill (maybe a real synergy with Miko, rather than what she currently gets) to boost her average stats - which, by the way, stay average even in spite of her fast levelling rate because she lacks any kind of synergy or skill boost besides the X2.5 from her mask.
As a side note, having her Concentration skill set at 8500 delay, but regenerating only 2 MP, often feels more like a handicap than a help. Moreover, while Kokoro's damage output becomes decent only with her mask power activated, you generally don't want to waste a turn Concentrating right off the bat - especially on random fights (except maybe when she gets a free turn from Strategist/Monk, and her allies don't). I'm not sure how this one could be fixed, though.
-
A more permanent solution would be to adjust the entire ATB system in such a way that it doesn't turn into turn-based system with enough SPD (for example, instead of using a fixed post-use delay regardless of how much ATB the character has at the turn, reduce it by a fixed amount instead). Not sure if he wants to change the game so radically though.
I was surprised a long while back that that's not how the system worked. Maybe a test with said idea (have only a few attacks on a fast character have this trait as a test) would be a good way to test the waters for this?
I dunno if it's what you and 3Peso mean, but one thing I've noticed on TL1 (and which I started to notice here in TL2 too, now that levels are getting high) is that speed and delays become progressively less important. Due to the way the action bar ticks, in fact, it really makes no difference, at higher levels, if your attack has, say, 7000 or 8500 delay most times, because in both cases it's gonna be just one tick to 10000+. This, by the way, also hurts the viability of characters, like Chen, whose entire strategy post-Awakening revolves around hitting multiple times before others act. As levels increase, you will in fact get less and less opportunities to fire off said quick attacks, and thus to increase Chen's damage output. If you also consider that said chars also tend to be frailer in the long run, it can really hurts their viability vis-?-vis bulkier stay-in attackers - who only get better as your level increases.
This, by the way, is an issue which really affects all "speedsters" - not just Chen, but also Marisa, Rin, Aya and so on. I honestly don't see many ways to correct it, though, other than maybe to make sure said chars have a use which does away with their speed. Chen, for example, does not need to abuse its gimmick in order to deal considerable damage, and very few FIR attackers compare to her dmg-wise. Similarly, even not counting her speed, Marisa remains a very powerful MYS attacker. Aya, on the other hand, feels a bit less solid - there's much more choice in terms of powerful WND attackers, like Suika, Iku, Kanako, or literally anything using the WINNER subclass.
A bit more subtly, though, this also affect chars whose viability depends on benefitting from (or enabling) fast switch ins. Rinnosuke, Keine, Kogasa, Suwako etc. all become progressively less impactful as levels arise and speed increases.
A solution to the problem of viability could be made in the form of having SPD help in increasing a character's damage output directly(a percentage of SPD being used to increase ATK or MAG) or reduce all incoming damage based on a formula that uses SPD...
As for switchers, I think that the solution to that is to mainly add secondary effects when switching, like a buff or heal...
-stuff-
And while I agree with a good deal of that, I also have a lot of things to say about characters and subclasses, but I'll address one of these things since everyone is posting at breakneck speed.
Gambler, which has been nerfed into the dirt. My thought on fixing it...
Max Bet
Max SLv: 1
Skill Cost: 12
Double MP cost of all spells, but increase the power and effect of spellcards by 20% (damage, healing, buffing, debuff strength(not chance), ailment strength(not chance)).
Half as long, Twice as bright
Max SLv: 10
Skill Cost: 2
Spend (SLv) TP to Increase Damage of Offensive spells by (SLv * 2)%. This effect won't activate if you don't have enough TP.
Blood Price
Max SLv: 10
Skill Cost: 2
When casting an offensive spell, deal (SLv)% HP damage to yourself to Increase damage dealt by (SLv * 2)%. This effect won't activate if you don't have enough remaining HP.
Reckless Charge
Max SLv: 2
Skill Cost: 12
Receive (SLv * 50)% more damage, and your attacks ignore (SLv * 15)% of your enemies defenses.
-stuff-
Two things...
1. Satori. I would want to give her this.
The girl even evil spirits fear
Max SLv: 2
Skill Cost: 8
If Satori is on the front line while an enemy has a status ailment or stat down, that enemy will deal (SLv * 12)% less damage, receive (SLv * 12)% more damage, and will be (SLv * 12)% slower.
Dreadful Trauma
Max SLv: 1
Skill Cost: 10
If a enemy weakness is hit while Satori is on the front line, a medium strength TRR, SIL, and HVY ailment is inflicted on that enemy. The enemy's resistance to said ailments will affect it's effectiveness.
Satori needs more skills that rewards hitting a weakness, as well as exploit enemies that are hit with status ailments and debuffs. The first skill cripples foes that are weakened by status and debuffs, something that her family(Orin and Okuu) can do easily, especially Okuu with the debuff from Hell's Tokamak(over 110% chance and Sheer Force), while her second skill allows Satori herself to weaken a foe if a weakness is hit, which helps her meet the condition of her first skill.
2. Youkai Mountain Alliance. Specifically Hina.
No two ways about it. Hina should not be part of this team skill. As for a replacement skill for Hina...
Strength drawn from curses
Max SLv: 1
Skill Cost: 120
Doubles effect of Two Way Curse, and Increases max debuff on Hina to 75%
Powers up Two Way Curse(which you'll have active pretty much at all times) while increasing the strength of Hina's "debuffs are buffs to me" gimmick.
I'll end this post here, so I can explain other things in a timely manner over time...
-
This is true basically for patch 1.103 content, but the newest patch introduced a lot of bosses which, from my experience, were quite damn durable. Plus, unlike in TL1, Ran isn't limited to buffing. Her Soaring El Ozuno does quite solid damage with very little delay, and her mixed stats allow Ran to employ any of the unique subclasses to decent effect. I do agree that she's not that great in the early game, but by the time you get Yukari and complete the Yakumo family, Ran is more than good enough from my experience.
I specifically mentioned her buffing abilities, I know she's more than decent enough as a damage dealer, but half of her skills are basically devoted to her "buffing the backline gimmick", having it only come into play in a very few Plus Disk fights just kinda feels disappointing.
I don't think Maintenance as a skill needs to be changed. It's more that Nitori has a ridiculous 625% ATK - 125% DEF nuke on top of it. I dunno if you tried Miko, but she's quite balanced - good, yes, but she doesn't dish out the same unreal numbers Nitori pulls. To be honest, all I did if I were 3peso would be lowering Super Scope to 400% ATK - 100% DEF.
As I explained while answering to Libra, the main problem with Nitori right now is that Super Scope is simply too powerful - to give you an idea, while fighting Maribel's three "demons", Aria Singing Toruastory and the other two
, Maribel was doing around 20M per Tradition of Just Rewards, while Nitori's Super Scope was dealing well over 50M. Frankly, I think having the skill modifier set at 400% ATK - 100% DEF would still preserve Nitori's spot as the best physical attacker in the game, without making her feel almost like a cheat on boss fights.
I agree that Miko is balanced, and Nitori and Renko should be the ones nerfed (to be fair, in that case the Sealing Club skill would stay as it is). However I don't think Super Scope is that broken, particularly when you consider the fact that it has double the delay when compared to Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall which also gets a 30% boost from her skill (for me it does the same damage as Yuuka's Master Spark which is not exactly very balanced) particularly in the later boss fights ( ***WINNER***, King of Chaos and Man of Fundoshi
), bosses have very high amounts of HP that no nuker can realistically blow through that easily, so spamming the low delay/cost Waterfall to take advantage of the Overheat boost is generally more efficient than blowing through all your MP in 4 attacks by spamming Super Scope.
Miko dealing 20m with a spell that has only a third of Nitori's Super Scope's multiplier (along with a third of the MP cost and half the delay) seems to be perfectly fine to me, plus Nitori has the Overheat boost. My opinion is that while very high SPD does invalidate certain skills, as of level 1000 even your fastest characters are only gonna get around 3000 ATB per tick which means that 0% delays still matter.
-
I'm gonna go over everything later after writing up a rough draft for the e-mail I wanna send 3peso (after which I'll add some things from here, for those that don't want or can't send an e-mail themselves), but regarding Satori's damage, I decided to run a quick comparison with Iku's on a 30f mob, the level 811 divine crystal thingy. With no buffs whatsoever, same equips, library level, max MAG investment in levels, etc, I did two hits of Elekiter Dragon Palace on each enemy.
Level 695 Satori: 6.2m, 5.6m
Level 734 Iku: 5.5m, 5.9m
Not bad! With this setup, Satori has 465K HP, so she would inflict 232K damage with Extra Experience of Trauma, provided she was at max HP. It's not much, but it's still a few % more damage. Her damage is certainly competitive, for a character that can use nearly every spell card in the game. Something like Gathering and Dissipating from Suika would do far more damage, and Satori gets Chireiden + Proof of Kinship synergy. I do not believe that Satori's damage is lacking. If there's anything I would like changed about her, it's changing Extra Experience of Trauma to work off of her maximum HP, and not her current HP. That, and/or doubling its effect to be her full HP as damage, and not half.
-
I'm gonna go over everything later after writing up a rough draft for the e-mail I wanna send 3peso (after which I'll add some things from here, for those that don't want or can't send an e-mail themselves
There's probably some things I could think of, but the only thing I'm 100% on is the removal or fixing of the 9F bonus area chest that's *still* inaccessible. Even though it's just a War Mask of the Butcher, and even though it's so minor, it bothers me.
-
In normal postgame Satori started looking pretty depressing, but in Plus Disk she's got more potential. Focus shifting off of def/mnd and onto HP saves her from being made of paper mache which was the worst thing. Her kit has some curious uses at very high levels, like using 25% max mp recov on swap with stuff like Yukari's Spiriting Away and massive max mp stacking. She can also do gimmick HP tank builds with big max mp for spamming low delay skills for burst damage here and there and copying support skills otherwise, although I have no idea if hp scaling makes that viable or not.
Her team skill is stronger than the other team skills, too, for atk/mag boosts, so she can enjoy her Actual Durability and just be a really versatile attacker without worrying about all her gimmick junk too much. Having backup for your buffs/heals is a nice thing on the side.
Re:Ran - En No Ozuno is OK, but it was actually way better in ThLaby 1, where it was just amazing. Yukari is really good so using Ran ain't bad, but Sorc's row atk enhancement is the only thing making her notably decent imo. Her weird buffs aren't really my thing.
Re:Yuyuko - The problem is her slow levels and expensive library means her MAG isn't actually all that high. Worse, NO damage boost passives mean Nirvana isn't nearly as strong as it looks either. Yuyuko has great spell formulas and good stat growths, but in practice her damage is... actually not exciting at all, and bosses do enjoy resisting both of her elements.
Re:Meiling - No one mentioned her and I'm surprised, holy crap she was already a juggernaut and now he made her free +40% speed passive work too??? She has massive hp and huge damage reduction passives so I can't imagine this changes in Plus Disk at -all-.
Reimu and Rumia reducing their own healing skills is pretty lame, tho'.
A bit more subtly, though, this also affect chars whose viability depends on benefitting from (or enabling) fast switch ins. Rinnosuke, Keine, Kogasa, Suwako etc. all become progressively less impactful as levels arise and speed increases.
While not wrong, the effect isn't too extreme until levels get absolutely dumb. Ticks may go faster, but you aren't getting a quarter of your ATB bar at once (well, maybe aya). In a world where characters regen ATB in 4 ticks on most moves, rinnosuke allowing you to regen ATB in a single tick still makes you several times faster. It does mean Keine's swap skill is just on-level with the others, though, and gimmick strats like Kogasa spamming instant attackers with her big regen passives do slowly become less effective...
-
Regarding Satori's HP in the higher levels, at level 695 and library 800, with First-Aid Kit and 3x Medicine of Life, HP Second Boost, and Transcendent subclass, Satori has 1,646,352 HP, which gives her 820K damage on Extra Experience of Trauma. Last few bosses ranged from 60m to 125m HP. Would take Satori over 70 actions to inflict 60m damage with just Extra Experience of Trauma, which is why I think doubling its effect would be fair.
-
Comparison, between Yuyuko (bad growth rate and terrible library cost) and Maribel (good leveling rate and average library cost):
[attach=1]
I made sure to give them aproximately the same amount of experience (2830m) and money (50k), both have 20 MAG gems and mega boost. The difference is rather small (about 3%?), but unlike Yuyuko, who only has the 10% stat boost from her awakening, Maribel gets Grand Incantation, and a more powerful (albeit more restrictive) synergy skill ; she's also slightly faster (though it doesn't really make much of a difference really, about 200 more ATB per tick). Some other bulky mages with bad leveling rates (Yuuka and Kanako) have about the same MAG as Yuyuko too, but they get damage/stat boosting skills that far surpass Yuyuko's (Extra Attack, Tormenting Nature, Sky Creation, etc).
-
Thanks for the comparison, Libra. I'll admit, I didn't expect Yuyuko to be this bad. She really could use some improvement. Maybe, raising her skill levels to 9, like Youmu, would suffice? I'm pretty sure that, going from a +25 to a +45%, Flawless Nirvana should deal reasonable damage at least. But I'm not sure even that would be enough, tbh.
-
Thanks for the comparison, Libra. I'll admit, I didn't expect Yuyuko to be this bad. She really could use some improvement. Maybe, raising her skill levels to 9, like Youmu, would suffice? I'm pretty sure that, going from a +25 to a +45%, Flawless Nirvana should deal reasonable damage at least. But I'm not sure even that would be enough, tbh.
Some sort of damage boost is better for Yuyuko's case. Increasing her spell levels would also increase their secondary effects, and honestly those DTH rates don't need even more of a buff. She's also got a lot of mostly dead skills so she wouldn't really miss some of them.
-
Yuyuko's Deadly Swallowtail Lance pierces defense pretty well and is fairly strong with Row Attack Enhance. Plus her damage bonus against ghosts works against a lot of Plus Disc enemies. I wouldn't be averse to her other aoe abilities becoming useful for anything besides inflicting DTH or her getting some better passive skills though.
EDIT:
IMO, Ran's buffs are better then you're giving them credit for, although her Awakening skill that buffs them should probably just work 100% of the time instead of relying on RNG. Its worth noting that the Ame-No-Murakumo
subclass buff absorby thing absorbs buffs from the back line. This means that one Banquet of General Gods will give that person a 100% ATK/MAG buff from turn 1, which is pretty dang useful. I do definitely agree that her skill costs are prohibitively high and that her Super-Fast Hard Arithmetic could stand to be 10 points.
-
Swallowtail Lance is pretty OK, but when I tried to use her I ran into the issue of most bosses around that time resisting it. So annoying. It still isn't actually -impressive-, either, just, y'know, good enough. Yuyuko's good for mass DTH and just... passable in bosses.
Well, no. The Ghost damage bonus is a different matter. I do hear a lot of plus disk things qualify as ghosts. Can't go wrong with a ~40%(?) damage boost to the whole frontline.
This means that one Banquet of General Gods will give that person a 100% ATK/MAG buff from turn 1, which is pretty dang useful.
Alright, that's a pretty decent use, especially in shorter boss fights that you just rush down. In general, they're OK after awakening and with the massive MP totals you have in Plus Disk. I mean, when it triggers a 32% buff to the entire backline, that's definitely nice, and they're far more affordable to use in Plus. I wouldn't give her a party slot unless I was running Yakumo team, but Yukari is pretty good so that's not exactly a problem.
I consider them basically worthless until mega lategame, though XD So expensive, 16% on backlines is eh, and there's no shortage of powerful buffing characters in LoT2. Even in LoT1, I thought it was awesome to use in Winner where I literally just had Ran spend every turn of the entire fight buffing to keep them maxed up (occasionally doing a switch), but totally eh before then.
-
Going over some of the things brought up,
-Nitori's issue, I feel, is that she's simply very strong overall, the problem does not lie specifically in Super Scope 3D. Although it is very strong, it is not so strong as to warrant a nerf. It's the same spell card formula as Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely, and while it has no status requirement, it costs 16 MP and has 0 delay. It's clearly a spell card intended to be highly damaging, but severely lacking in MP efficiency and hindered by the delay, and compared to Nitori's other options, it is exactly the case. Compared to Yuugi's Knockout in Three Steps or Meiling's Mountain Breaker, I'm not sure Super Scope 3D is necessarily the best PHY attack in the game in the first place. More importantly, I feel, is that Nitori has Maintenance and Overheat. Even without Overheat, she's already one of the strongest ATK characters due to Maintenance. With Overheat, she can rapidly accumulate an enormous damage buff on her lower delay options like Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall or Murakumo Slash. As strong as Super Scope 3D is, I feel that Nitori is even stronger when using Overheat. So my proposal would be to lower Nitori's ATK stat, and thus lower her damage all around. Nitori has a good leveling rate, and with the way that Gems/Orbs and stat boosting skills work, in the later parts of the game, characters with higher leveling rates but lower base stats gain more from them than characters with lower leveling rates and higher base stats. I do not feel that Nitori's other stats should be nerfed, so reducing her leveling rate would be excessive. I also don't think nerfing Overheat is the solution, as other characters have it too. So I would leave it at nerfing her ATK growth rate.
-Added Magician's Magic Circuit and Eirin's Hourai Elixir as things that should receive a benefit from leveling up. I think that reducing the delay on Magic Circuit and either doing the same for Hourai Elixir or increasing the strength of the heal by 5% per level would be good ideas. For Aya's Divine Grandson's Advent, I think that changing the effect of leveling it up to have a SPD buff effect added might address this. I would prefer an MP cost or delay reduction, but I think this would be imbalanced.
-Address the issue with Sakuya's Awakening skill Jack the Ripper's Silver Knife being affected by auxiliary effects, and address the bug in Marisa's Awakening skill Hakkero Charge Mode.
-Investigate a bug involving maximum MP being reduced to less than 1 during battle.
-Yuyuko should receive an overall rebalance, and Ran should receive a buff to her buffing abilities.
-Komachi should receive a buff to her Awakening skill Shinigami's Scythe. This probably shouldn't be a significant buff though, as I believe the effect is being misunderstood. Taking for example, Narrow Confines of Avici, it would probably be thought of as (80% ATK + 400% MAG) - 100% T.MND, when it is actually ((80% ATK + 200% MAG) - 50% T.MND) * 2, that is to say, 160% ATK + 400% MAG. This could still be safely improved without creating imbalance though.
-Nerf Sealing Club's HP regeneration effect. I think 3% per skill level is fair.
-Adjust the Awakening skills Youkai Mountain Alliance? and Four Deva of Mt. Ooe? so that they count backline members at half strength. Presently, these are the only synergy skills that affect more than 2 members that do not have an effect that counts the backline.
-Adjust skills dependent on random activation rates so that they are more consistent. Even if an effect is less powerful, as long as it is more consistent, it will be easier to use. 99% activation rates should be made 100%.
-Add a skill to Gambler that increases damage at the cost of HP.
-Add an effect to Hina's skill Role of Nagashi-bina that reverses the effect of stat buffs. Change the effect of Hina's Awakening skill Sorrows of Exiled Dolls so that status effects are transferred to Hina instead. Adjust the effect of Spinning More Than Usual to be more compatible with Role of Nagashi-bina.
-Address the item in 9f's expanded area that cannot be acquired.
-Rebalance Kokoro. Her damage is too low and the mask buffs are too weak. Change the effect of The Lost Emotion to reduce MP recovery by 1/2, and to have no MP recovery penalty with the Guardian skill Efficient Concentration.
Well, no. The Ghost damage bonus is a different matter. I do hear a lot of plus disk things qualify as ghosts. Can't go wrong with a ~40%(?) damage boost to the whole frontline.
It's a 20% damage increase, but the problem with that is that racial bonuses don't stack and Super Youkai Buster from Reimu/Sanae is approximately a 44% damage increase (1.2 * 1.2), and a large number of Touhou bosses are Youkai. A lot of them are Humans too, so Rumia gets her racial in too.
Interestingly, while all of the Shadow bosses were Ghosts, not all of the Abyss bosses are. So far, I've only seen Rumia
and Cirno
as the exceptions. There have been some inconsistencies between Shadow and Abyss boss racial categories besides that too. Also, Abyss Youmu had her Beast categorization removed from the 1.104 update, and Serpent of Chaos' racial categories changed from Flying + Inorganic to Flying + Oni + Divine. Strangely, Parsee
is categorized as Aquatic for both her Shadow and Abyss fights.
--
Regarding the subject of adjusting SPD in the game, I think it would be more efficient and effective to focus on making the system work as it currently is than changing it. For example, increasing Chen's durability and damage to compensate for her loss of speed advantage, or making it so that she can act twice per turn under certain conditions.
-
Well, Parsee is a Hashihime (lit. bridge princess) so her being aquatic does make sense.
-
Hm, maybe I'm thinking too literally then, as the other Aquatic Touhou bosses are Nitori (kappa), Iku (oarfish), and Suwako (frog), all of which are creatures that live in water specifically, while bridges are over water instead.
-
Actually, forget about the Sakuya thing, I just checked and it seems to have been fixed, even though it wasn't mentioned anywhere.
-
Hm, maybe I'm thinking too literally then, as the other Aquatic Touhou bosses are Nitori (kappa), Iku (oarfish), and Suwako (frog), all of which are creatures that live in water specifically, while bridges are over water instead.
Hashihime does have a lot to do with the water under the bridge. (https://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/04/22/the-tale-of-the-hashihime-of-uji/)
Also I didn't check but does Kogasa still have 32 MP recovery? If she does that needs to be addressed too.
-
Also I didn't check but does Kogasa still have 32 MP recovery? If she does that needs to be addressed too.
She actually still does.
-
I was thinking that was intentional at this point, but I'll add that as something that might be an oversight as well.
-
Being reading up and thought of something for Yuyuko...
Sense of Cherry Blossom
Max Lv: 2
Skill Cost: 8
While Yuyuko is on the frontline, if an enemy has a high resistance to a frontliner's attack, that attack deals (SLv * 25)% more damage to said enemy.
Would this be enough to counterbalance it for a little bit?
-
Being reading up and thought of something for Yuyuko...
Sense of Cherry Blossom
Max Lv: 2
Skill Cost: 8
While Yuyuko is on the frontline, if an enemy has a high resistance to a frontliner's attack, that attack deals (SLv * 25)% more damage to said enemy.
Would this be enough to counterbalance it for a little bit?
This wording is so vague that it's difficult to imagine a scenario where it doesn't apply, considering almost every character has several different elements of attack and almost every mob has resistance to something.
I wouldn't recommend actually sending over concrete stuff like this anyways. The whole thing's still his creation after all; just sending over (perceived) problematic spots is good enough.
-
High resistance is probably intended as blue numbers. I think Yuyuko should mainly get buffs to her damage and spell cards personally, SPI and DRK are honestly really common weaknesses, especially SPI.
But yeah, as far as what I'm actually writing up for the e-mail, when it comes to buffs, I'm trying to leave it vague. Like for Iku, I wrote "I would like to see a small improvement in Iku's firepower", and that's it. I'll leave it to 3peso to figure out how he wants to do this. Some things would be specific, like the Gambler HP sacrifice skill, but nothing more than "I want to see Gambler receive a skill that increases damage at the cost of HP", no numbers, no skill name, just a description of the purpose of the skill.
Writing all of this stuff is really hard though, since my Japanese is only as far as being able to read, I can't accurately use it for anything more than sentences consisting of a few words. Been relying a lot on machine translation and trying to write things differently to try to make sure the meaning is conveyed, but it's a time consuming process that still leads to awkward sounding sentences that need correction.
-
About things that might need changing, while it might be fun to completely invalidate several of the bosses with Awakened Reisen, I think SHK res in particular might need to be higher overall on the bosses. Particularly,
***Winner***
and The Dragon God
can both be prevented from taking more than one or two turns, allowing even a horrendously underleved party to clear them with ease. Granted, ***Winner*** requires a bit of luck to get him to go into one of his froms that's more vulnerable to it, but still.
While I wouldn't want statuses to become useless, but, maybe increase the SHK resistance and decrease their resistance to several other statuses?
-
Oh wow lmao, that definitely needs addressing. I would say just buff SHK resistance, or make it so that the ATB reduction effect is mitigated by SHK resistance even when it procs.
-
About things that might need changing, while it might be fun to completely invalidate several of the bosses with Awakened Reisen, I think SHK res in particular might need to be higher overall on the bosses.
Worth considering that Reisen can also subclass Toxicologist and apply an irresistable PAR that's stronger than non-awakened Sakuya's Private Square at PAR 3600.
Is PAR super long lasting after speed levels are intense, like it was in Labyrinth 1? Postgame PAR in Laby1 lasted -forever-.
Finally getting the patch myself, maybe tomorrow I'll get started.
-
Is PAR super long lasting after speed levels are intense, like it was in Labyrinth 1? Postgame PAR in Laby1 lasted -forever-.
Nah, Postgame Par is practically useless, when it comes to bosses, at least. Might stop them for a tick or two. ATB goes up so fast, Reisen's PAR barely delays their turn. Decently useful against randoms, though, especially in conjunction with PSN.
Edit: Actually, thinking about it, I'd say PAR could use a buff, actually. Due to the speed issues that do come up, both on your own characters and on enemies, PAR needs to be probably around 10000 to actually be meaningful. It's probably the status that was the least useful, in my team based around statuses.
Another status that might need to be slightly reworked is PSN, at least against randoms. Maybe I just didn't notice in the base game content, but in plus disk, it seems like randoms lose HP way too fast to PSN. One use of gas-woven orb was getting almost any enemy it inflicted down to 1 HP. The thing is, though, the effect of PSN feels just right for bosses, so I don't know how one might go about balancing that.
-
In LoT1 status lasted a certain amount of clockticks, so PAR lasts forever in postgame since everyone is super fast. LoT2 changed that so they last a certain amount of action gauge instead, which means they're tied to the victim's SPD.
-
Another status that might need to be slightly reworked is PSN, at least against randoms. Maybe I just didn't notice in the base game content, but in plus disk, it seems like randoms lose HP way too fast to PSN. One use of gas-woven orb was getting almost any enemy it inflicted down to 1 HP. The thing is, though, the effect of PSN feels just right for bosses, so I don't know how one might go about balancing that.
Hm, are you familiar with the finer details on how exactly PSN's damage and duration works? I must admit, I have no idea how it actually works beyond the obvious "depletes enemy HP", and would greatly benefit from an explanation. Depending on the current effectiveness of Gas-Woven Orb (damage done and duration of the effect), it may be better for me to refrain from suggesting a buff to its PSN affliction.
-
I don't know for sure, but it seems like damage done by PSN is based purely on the afflicted's LVL. Enemies with a lot of defense, but not much HP, drop like flies, but enemies with more HP will take it a little better. I'm guessing that most of the randoms in the expansion have HP that could be considered low for their level, so that's why it's doing so much.
-
That would make sense, the mob HP does seem very low for their level. Only one enemy in 30f breaks 10m HP. If PSN scales by level, then extending the duration of the effect could have horrible consequences, so I will only ask for a reduction in the delay of Gas-Woven Orb.
-
I'm pretty late to the party I imagine, but the random battles on B1f are... problematic, to say the least. It's a struggle to actually kill things instead of run away. I guess it balances out as I find plus disk equips to put on my attackers though, since it's so crazily stronger than all the maingame gear? (Yeah, I never got around to playing through any of Plus Disk 'til now XD)
-
With regards to tenshi: With how poorly defenses scale into the post game, it feels like she kind of has absolutely no place in the game after a certain point. Her attack is weak, she doesn't have the best affinities, and her base health isn't fantastic either.
It'd be nice if her affinities were ramped way the hell up (perhaps via gaining access to some sort of TP-intensive skill), and if her base attack got a serious buff. On top of this, her debuffs are somewhat nonsensically spread out - World Creation Press does nothing against magical bosses, and Violent Motherland does nothing against magic packs (and it doesn't really make sense to use WCP against packs or motherland against single targets). It should probably be changed so both debuff both attack and magic.
Awakening wise, Courageous Sword is fine, but Keystones of Spirit makes absolutely no sense. Due to the limited selection of elements on any given physical class, it's a massive pain in the ass and difficult to plan around, and tenshi's somewhat low attack already means you have to go for a subclass with passive benefits, which locks her out of swordsmaster. This needs to be replaced outright, Tenshi is a incredibly unfitting and outright bizarre choice for such a passive - really, given her issues, you could probably just give her Sheer Force and that'd even be thematically fitting.
Skill wise, I agree that Kusanagi's Former Owner should just be unconditional. Girl of Bhava-agra also needs to be extremely defanged and the offensive perks it offers given back into tenshi's base attack or a new skill, because it cripples her as an attacker to require Iku out for a huge chunk of her damage output. Enduring Celestial should be changed in some way (perhaps to the prior-mentioned affinity boost), because it's currently worthless - against random trash packs, a 33% buff to def/mind really isn't doing anything, and against bosses - well, uh, Tenshi already has her +100% to both buff, so...this passive is entirely pointless? Maybe, idunno, make it so a percentage of her defense and mind buffs also buff her affinities. Keystone Formation is also fairly worthless because of, not only how poor defense / mind buffs already were, but how poorly both defense and mind scale as the game goes on - it's also only a 10% buff, which barely helps sustain defense buffs you already most likely aren't using or are sustaining in other ways. Ideally, this would be changed to be attack/magic buff instead, or a percentage heal to the front line if it's to remain defensive in nature.
Edit: I dunno how to change the other speedsters, but to fix aya's depressing damage at all levels in the game whilst keeping her gimmick, give her a passive - let's call it Tailwind. This hypothetical passive would cause her speed buffs to also raise her attack by XYZ - somewhere between 50% and 100% of the speed buff value, probably. This both gives her something to do when speed buffing falls off the map (namely, buffing *herself*), and fixes her serious damage woes. Given her lack of damage passives otherwise (outside of the VERY risky awakening skill she has), it could probably even just be a flat 1% of speed = 1% increased attack, additive with any attack buffs she already has, and still not be anywhere near busted.
Also probably revert the Grandson MP nerf, it's already something that scales badly as time goes on, give her MP a buff, and lower the cost of Peerless Wind God, since right now she's a stay-in attacker who can't really sustain herself. Failing that, give her some variant on Ibuki Gourd.
Also buff wind god's fan please, it's incredibly terrible for a row attack. Either make it all with a small damage buff, or just crank up the damage because it does not do anywhere near enough in random encounters to fill its intended purpose.
-
I think Tenshi is mostly in an OK spot, but it's unfortunate that a MASSIVE hunk of her Attack stat comes from Iku. Her buff-clearing is a really nice ability to have apart from just her damage, keep in mind, and to deal with postgame def/mnd scaling she gets a big HP boost from awakening. From what I've read in-thread, at least one person has gotten wonderful results out of using her offensively in Plus, possibly even as one of their best attackers? I think they were using her for their minmax setups. Yes, she's a little gimmicky to use, but she's originally a tank and that buff-clearing ability is already quite the selling point.
Her ATK isn't even -that- much worse than most characters after plus disk's gem/boost tweaking, and her skill formulas are very solid.
Base stat increases (gems, second boost, etc) work very well with all the percentage attack boosts she can get. Also, swordmaster has a larger-than-usual base ATK increase, so I'm not sure why you think it'd be a terrible subclass choice; not everyone can just no-brainer on Transcendent, as useful as it is. Warrior isn't a bad in-between option though, giving FIR and MYS attacks with offense passives. Dragon God also works but obviously there's reasons you might not want or be capable of using it :V
Re:Passives; Keystone Formation only even activates in a tanking setup and she's useless for that in Plus, so changing it doesn't matter; it's effect is desirable before Plus content as-is and useless after no matter what. And consider that Enduring Celestial is actually a starting ATK buff after awakening- small, but 13% more atk in randoms is nice. Kusanagi's Former Owner is definitely a little weird though, you'd expect her to have a self-debuff, I guess there's Heavy but that's awkward and bad...
-
Yeah that's me wrecking the game with Tenshi. I have no complaints with her offense, relying on Iku is fine. Iku herself is a superb support character, and I feel that synergy skills should be strong like that, since they rely on very specific characters. Granted, my entire party and playstyle has been designed around Iku + Tenshi, since my intent from the very beginning was "Tenshi is my favorite Touhou character, I want to build a party around her". I think Tenshi is in a great spot overall despite the bias though.
Regarding her DEF/MND, it is true that in Plus Disk, it's pretty lacking in value (Tenshi was extremely durable in the base game though). I suspect that 3peso was aware of this when he added Seven Celestial Peaches to Tenshi, and buffed it in a later patch (it was originally only 4 levels, which was really weird because the skill name was Seven). Tenshi is also blessed with excellent affinities all around, so she excels in all forms of defense, outside of MYS and DRK attacks for her weakness elements. Even so, her weakness is only 75 (so it caps at 150 at library 100, 182 with Affinity Boost), and those are good elements to be weak to because Machine God Lucifer adds 99 affinity to them. Even if this were not the case, Regalia adds so much affinity that a character's base affinity is almost irrelevant. +172 to all elements on top of a +600% HP boost is absurdly good, especially with how much easier it is to create compared to all the other top level equipment items in the game.
Regardless of all the ways to ignore this problem though, there are still sometimes cases where an attack has a low ATK/MAG modifier, but a high damage modifier, and Tenshi can still tank those easy.
Regarding the debuffs on World Creation Press and Violent Motherland, I feel that having both an ATK and MAG debuff on World Creation Press may be a little too strong, as it is already a devastating NTR attack. Similarly, Violent Motherland is a powerful attack for dealing with bosses that consist of multiple targets, and the SPD debuff is quite strong considering the damage being inflicted. That it debuffs MAG as well is another small bonus. I do see where the problem comes in with Tenshi as a tank character though. When she's in that role, there is nothing she can do to contribute in terms of support besides switching, dispelling buffs, and subclass effects. The debuffs on her spell cards grant her additional options to support with, but in the case of Violent Motherland, it is too expensive and has too much delay to be useful for the purpose of debuffing SPD. But any adjustments that can be made would have a more pronounced effect on Tenshi in her attacker role, so it is difficult to address this in a balanced and fair manner. For now, I would not say anything about it. Instead, I want to focus on getting Former Murakumo's Owner for support. If it was to activate regardless of the presence of a status condition, then that helps alleviate the need for healing. With the passive healing effect active, in situations where Tenshi would be switching a healer in, she could instead be using a debuffing attack. It would also increase the usefulness of switching with Tenshi, as it would speed up her healing ability.
Keystones of Spirit, conceptually, is likely based on how the Sword of Hisou is supposed to have the ability to change form based on a target's weaknesses. As far as how it actually plays out in gameplay, Tenshi's enormous ATK potential allows her to make excellent use of subclass spells that scale off ATK. The damage potential from striking a boss' weakness is enormous, and in many scenarios Tenshi's best offensive option is indeed using a subclass spell instead of her own spell cards, even with the presence of Murakumo's Blessing. Ignoring the 1-character subclasses, Warrior's Explosive Flame Sword, Monk's Puncturing Thrust, and Ninja's Assassination Sword are cases where the spell card is strong enough to exceed Tenshi's personal spell cards backed by Murakumo's Blessing, provided that they are fully taking advantage of the target's weakness (I.E. Divine Falchion, Satori and/or Akyuu). Due to Tenshi's high DEF, with some excellent ATK + DEF boosting equipment she can even make good use of Guardian's Shield Bash, which will actually offer similar damage output to the aforementioned spell cards. The areas that Tenshi lacks are in CLD (Samidare Slash is too weak to surpass World Creation Press or Sword of Hisou unless the target resists NTR/SPI and is not weak to anything besides CLD, no such boss exists that I can think of) and MYS, which is something that Iku luckily covers just fine. The only real problem with this is that Tenshi needs to switch subclasses frequently to make full use of Keystones of Spirit, but this is necessary for any character that is trying to target a weakness they don't hold a spell card for.
Swordmaster as a subclass is kind of bad, so it's fine if Tenshi can't use it. The only reason for her to use it is for Samidare Slash, which is regrettably bad. The only other useful spell card it offers, Explosive Flame Sword, is done better by Warrior. Swordmaster could use some buffs as it currently is.
For Enduring Celestial, I think that it's fine as it currently is because of Courageous Sword. At the start of the fight, that is a 13.2% increase to ATK. Furthermore, with the Herbalist spell Placebo Effect (which is one of the best options for maintaining high buffs on a single character, due to its low delay), after any kind of DEF/MND buff (such as from Enhancer heals or Sanae's Miracle Fruit), Tenshi has enough DEF/MND for Placebo Effect to maintain an 86% buff on her with relative ease. The overall result of this is that Enduring Celestial makes Courageous Sword easier to use, whether for mobbing or bosses. Back in the main game where DEF/MND actually mattered, Enduring Celestial also made State of Enlightenment unnecessary to use, because Keystone Formation helped to maintain a high enough DEF/MND buff as to make it unnecessary to use State of Enlightenment to make Tenshi durable enough to tank. Because of that, it made it easier for Tenshi to focus on switching instead of wasting her ATB on buffing herself, increasing her productivity as a tank.
So overall, I feel that Enduring Celestial is actually really useful to have. The main problem with it now is simply that DEF/MND are not valuable at the moment, so it doesn't demonstrate how useful it is when combined with Keystone Formation.
Some of the things that were posted did make me realize some flaws with Tenshi that may be a good idea to address.
-Because of the low effect of DEF/MND in Plus Disk, I would like to see an additional effect to Keystone Formation, such as reducing the delay on switching.
-I would like to see the delay on Freedom from Worldly Thoughts reduced, and the demerits easier to acquire.
The latter is because PAR is useful for Iku to remove (20% to herself in all stats as well as Tenshi), and I want an effect on Hina that lets her receive status effects from other frontliners, so that she can activate Two-Way Curse more easily (HVY would activate Spinning More Than Usual). Presently, only Tenshi and Remilia can afflict themselves with status effects, IIRC. I think it would be good to make it easier for the player to intentionally inflict status effects on characters to take advantage of skills that rely on a party member having one.
Speaking of Hina, this made me think of some other ideas for her.
-Regarding the skill Spinning More Than Usual, I would like to see an effect that causes Hina's ATB to become 10000 upon receiving a PAR effect. I would also like to see PSN added to the usual effect.
Initially I was thinking that I wanted Hina to have an HP recovery effect upon getting a turn when PSN'd, but I think that's overly complicated when there's already a perfectly good effect for it to be used with.
Re:Passives; Keystone Formation only even activates in a tanking setup and she's useless for that in Plus, so changing it doesn't matter; it's effect is desirable before Plus content as-is and useless after no matter what.
Wanted to address this more specifically, Tenshi's not so much useless as a tank as way, way better as an attacker. Iku is one of the best single-target buffers in the game, with low delays, high SPD, low MP costs, and even higher DEF/MND than Tenshi with Hisouten Guard, with similar levels of HP (Tenshi w/ Seven Celestial Peaches has about 5.5% more HP). Her MND is such that even with minimal investment in it, she's taking 0 damage from some of the 30f mobs that use VOI attacks. She also packs the strongest DEF debuff in the game that also comes with a decent PAR effect, as well as a strong MT DEF debuff. Iku has all of these things going for her as a support character, while Tenshi has virtually nothing useful going for her. While she can remove buffs, this is something she can do even better as an attacker, since she's spending every turn attacking that way. While she can tank, she isn't doing much besides switching, and she has no passive ability to increase the damage of the frontline. She simply does not excel in any way unique to herself as a tank. This is one reason I feel that lifting the status/debuff requirement on Murakumo's Former Owner would be a good idea, as 5% HP regeneration per turn can be fairly useful. Keystone Formation probably does need to be buffed in some way as well.
One idea I have for it is to give it a counter effect on Tenshi that reduces the damage done to the whole party. The counter would be increased by performing a switch and decreased whenever the boss damages a character. This seems excessive though, especially since Tenshi already has Keystones of Spirit counters. I'll stick to just asking for Keystone Formation to be improved.
-
I believe that Aya's damage is fine, she's certainly not a prime attacker, but her ATK is the same as Momiji's, its also worth noting that Proof of the Fastest is not that hard to stack a few levels of, since there's a lot of equipment with good ATK and HP that allows Aya to safely take a few hits if she doesn't manage to dodge. I do agree that Tengu's Fan is a bit on the weaker side though, increasing the MP cost to 3 and buffing its damage would be nice.
EDIT: on a different note, I wonder if certain equipment should be rebalanced, there's overall much superior choices when it comes to ATK boosting equipment when compared to MAG boosting ones (which combined with the Archmage's poor single target options make most mages very ill suited to dealing with bosses when compared to physical attackers with the same elements available). I feel that equipment with ridiculously high ATK boosts (Magic Sword "Chaos" for example) exacerbate the Nitori problem, since they allow her to get extremely high ATK much earlier than she should.
-
Quick question for everyone: Is Youmu still in the "not that good" category? Because I thought of some stuff for her...
- Replace Dexterity for Piercing Attack, to make her damage output consistent.
- Reduce the Max SLv of Youmu's spells to 5 in exchange for the following...
- increase Post use gauge from increasing SLv of Present Life Slash, and maybe grant it the ability to ignore part of the enemy's def(similar to Iron Mountain Charge).
- Add a second element and a special effect that affects damage to God Slash of Karma Wind(DRK, increases damage based on enemy debuffs and ailments) and Slash Clearing the Six Senses(VOI, damage increased based on enemy buffs).
- Allow Slash of Eternity to perform guaranteed additional attacks equal to SLv(Max SLv of 5 allows for 6 attacks per casting)
- Remove the requirement of needing full HP and the cost of losing 20% HP to use Swordmaster's Spirit. Synergy of HP cost with Desperation is noted, but ultimately is not needed as a boss fight will likely put her to that level of health anyway. If anything, a skill that allows Desperation to remain active for the rest of the battle once activated would be more valuable.
- Due to all of the above, Asura's Blood becomes unnecessary for damage output, especially due to Lv5 Slash of Eternity + Piercing Attack + Swordmaster's Spirit dealing good single target damage for MP cost and delay.
What do you think of my ideas so far? I know that it's a way too specific set of things to send to the dev, but I wanted to know what you guys think of all this...
-
Hello, since we're talking about TL2 balance in general, I'd like to speak about a concept which, IMO, underlies much of what works (and what doesn't) with TL2 characters: gimmicks.
Commonly, when we use the word "gimmick", we give it a negative connotation - of a certain strategy which could work, but doesn't. Here, I won't use it specifically in this sense. Instead, I give "gimmick" a more neutral definition of "a strategy which requires you to play, at least to some extent, differently from the most straightforward path you have." A bit vague, maybe, but I hope my examples will clarify what I have in mind.
So, what are examples of gimmicks in TL2, and specifically of gimmick characters? In general, they are characters which, in order to maximize their performance, they have to do something very specific, which goes beyond just attacking or healing. A very simple example of a character which does not work like a gimmick is Yuugi. Yuugi's plan is basically to blast the opponent with Supernatural Phenomenon and Knockout in Three Steps, and sometimes to apply status. That's about it.
Examples of gimmick chars, then? Status-dependant characters, like Parsee, Hina, or Wriggle, who require you to specifically apply a certain ailment to maximize your performance (contrast this with characters which, like Yuyuko or Rin, focus on one or more status inflictions but are not vastly "enabled" by their application). Characters which require you to stack up a certain kind of buffs before working to their best - like Futo, Tokiko or Shou. Characters which require you to perform other combat actions, like switching or concentrating - Keine, Youmu, or Kokoro spring to mind. All these characters can be defined, to a larger or minor extent, by their adoption of some kind of "unorthodox" strategy.
So, why am I talking about gimmicks, here? Because I believe that one of the main issue with gimmicks in TL2 is that not all gimmicks "feel good" (more vague terms, I know. Just bear with me for a moment). Specifically, my hypothesis (mainly borrowed from Magic the Gathering) is that a gimmick - or, really, any strategy - feels "good" if it rewards you for "playing the game". An example of this is Futo. Futo relies heavily on her plate breaking - it increases her damage done, her defenses, allows her to resurrect if killed, and grants her a vast array of status options. And how do you increase that plate count? By attacking, of course, which is what you would want to do anyway if you were using a char like Futo. Sure, it comes with some limitations (i.e. having to use specific personal spellcards to do so) - after all, it wouldn't qualify as a gimmick, otherwise - but all in all the resulting playstyle does feel like what you'd expect an attacker to play like. And, with a few exceptions, her whole skillset is devoted to streamline this playstyle - reducing the duration of status ailments on Futo, giving her a constant speed boost, and a head start on plate count so that she's not useless in random encounters. In short, while Futo does require a more specific approach than something like Yuugi, she still rewards you for "playing the game."
Kokoro, by contrast, is an example of a gimmick which, I'm afraid, does not "feel good". While concentrating is a part of the game, having to concentrate multiple times in a row - just to establish a stat boost - is not. You might think that this applies to any character which takes advantage of concentrating, like Youmu, Yuuka and all the "incantation" characters, but that's not necessarily true. Consider Reimu and Maribel, for example. Since they're both group healers, you often want to delay their action so as to act immediately after the enemy (or, in Maribel's case, immediately after Renko's Charge). And a very common way to delay your action is, well, to concentrate - it has a decent 50% delay, and gets you back MPs. So, Grand Incantation here is rewarding you for "playing the game": you would have concentrated anyway and, if anything, Grand Incantation makes you feel better about it (if you end up not needing that heal, for example, it allows you to deal extra damage and recover that "wasted action" from before). Similarly, Akyuu's support spells encourage you already to concentrate and delay to time your actions perfectly - her Super Incantation skill only rewards you for a course of action you'd have taken anyway.
Kokoro, by contrast, has nothing of this. Kokoro is an attacker - if I have her on the field, I want to attack, not to spend my time concentrating. And what's worse, when I do have to concentrate, this ends up screwing her up because it shifts her mask power to something you might not even want... forcing you to concentrate even more!
A similar case of "feels bad" gimmick, IMO, is Tokiko. Activating Reading requires you to spam very weak magical attacks, and it's very RNG based as well. Then, once you do get Reading, its best use (a superpowered Yakuza Kick) causes you to lose it again, removing all the various buffs she'd get from skills. And if you don't want to use Yakuza Kick? She's left with the aforementioned weak magical attacks... and a % based heal. Now, thankfully Tokiko has such high stats that you only have to slap a powerful subclass on her and go town. But it's quite telling when you have a character whose entire skillset is based around a gimmick which you end up not using - heck, one of her awakening skills even rewards you for NOT using Reading... as if 3peso himself was somewhat self-aware here.
In short, I think that some characters are not simply weak (heck, Tokiko is actually very strong), but they are not fun to play with - or at least not as fun as they could/should. They don't simply need a buff, they need their entire build to be reworked into something which feels more streamlined and fun to play with during battles.
-
I'm pretty late to the party I imagine, but the random battles on B1f are... problematic, to say the least. It's a struggle to actually kill things instead of run away. I guess it balances out as I find plus disk equips to put on my attackers though, since it's so crazily stronger than all the maingame gear? (Yeah, I never got around to playing through any of Plus Disk 'til now XD)
Yeah I had to grind for a bit using Flandre. When paired with Aya she should be pretty good at destroying everything.
20F might have better exp from the psuedo-bosses though, and is definitely lower risk.
-
20F remains the best spot for grinding in the main game throughout the entirety of the postgame, and a bit into Plus Disk. I remember just sitting there and getting a bunch of levels by stringing like, 30+ battles that all ended in one hit from whoever I set up as my single-target damage. Plus I think like, the enemies in B1F seem designed to be tackled at least a decent way into original postgame, or even after it.
-
20F remains the best spot for grinding in the main game throughout the entirety of the postgame, and a bit into Plus Disk. I remember just sitting there and getting a bunch of levels by stringing like, 30+ battles that all ended in one hit from whoever I set up as my single-target damage. Plus I think like, the enemies in B1F seem designed to be tackled at least a decent way into original postgame, or even after it.
That's partly true, though keep in mind that even B1F enemies can drop some equipments, such as Transforman and Destroy Decomposer, which outclass anything you can find in the pre-PD content.
-
The B1 monsters aren't TOO bad when you get decently established. The big danger there is that some monsters are just plain tougher than others. You have level 140's or so that should be reasonably doable as soon as you're ready to fully dive in, but they're intermixed with level 200's that will be a big problem.
I personally just yuyuko'd most encounters down until I got some equipment under my belt.
-
I think the gimmick where characters need to rely on other characters to do their role is another that could possibly use some reworking. I'm of the opinion that synergy type skills should be a bonus to the characters that reward you for using them together as opposed to being arguably necessary for their survivability or damage output. Renko and Maribel are a good example of it being done right as they're both good characters on their own so you are never "forced" for lack of a better term to use them together. Despite Tenshi being my favorite Nature attacker in the game, it would certainly be nice not always having to use Iku which hearkens back to a post made earlier.
-
Hello, since we're talking about TL2 balance in general, I'd like to speak about a concept which, IMO, underlies much of what works (and what doesn't) with TL2 characters: gimmicks.
I personally kind of like these, myself. I do undoubtedly agree that is makes some balance problems (where gimmicks don't pay out with a reward great enough to justify the effort) or pushes players into certain characters more often than others (who DOESN'T use Yuugi on their first playthrough? She's so easy to get good results out of, that she's just plain SAFE to stick with) BUT I'd hate to see every character become "equally usable" because that just goes against the identity of Labyrinth. There's no point in having 50+ playable characters if they're all basically just clones of one another with different elements, defense/HP ratios, and generally-useful passives. Picking out a weird character who needs a crazy strategy and might just end up totally useless in a couple fights to use and make work anyway is most of the fun in replaying this game, sure it'd be extremely easy to just use Meiling and mountain breaker everything to death, but it could be a lot of fun too to put her away and play around a gimmick character, and completely change the way I think about combat.
-
I personally kind of like these, myself. I do undoubtedly agree that is makes some balance problems (where gimmicks don't pay out with a reward great enough to justify the effort) or pushes players into certain characters more often than others (who DOESN'T use Yuugi on their first playthrough? She's so easy to get good results out of, that she's just plain SAFE to stick with) BUT I'd hate to see every character become "equally usable" because that just goes against the identity of Labyrinth. There's no point in having 50+ playable characters if they're all basically just clones of one another with different elements, defense/HP ratios, and generally-useful passives. Picking out a weird character who needs a crazy strategy and might just end up totally useless in a couple fights to use and make work anyway is most of the fun in replaying this game, sure it'd be extremely easy to just use Meiling and mountain breaker everything to death, but it could be a lot of fun too to put her away and play around a gimmick character, and completely change the way I think about combat.
Sorry to be quite blunt but... have you actually read my post? I know it's pretty long, but nothing of what I said has anything to do with what you're seemingly answering to... I never claimed we should have no gimmick chars, nor that all chars should be equally good. What I talked about was about how some gimmicky chars are not very fun to play with (regardless of how good or bad they are), for reasons I've elaborated in my post.
I think the gimmick where characters need to rely on other characters to do their role is another that could possibly use some reworking. I'm of the opinion that synergy type skills should be a bonus to the characters that reward you for using them together as opposed to being arguably necessary for their survivability or damage output. Renko and Maribel are a good example of it being done right as they're both good characters on their own so you are never "forced" for lack of a better term to use them together. Despite Tenshi being my favorite Nature attacker in the game, it would certainly be nice not always having to use Iku which hearkens back to a post made earlier.
Also, I agree fully with this post. One of the reasons I've removed Tenshi from my party is that, for example, if ***WINNER***
does that move where he shuffles around the whole team and places HEAVY on everybody so they can't switch around, and he picks Tenshi but not Iku, then Tenshi ends up being a complete deadweight. Renko and Maribel, on the other hand, can function well even when the other half isn't around - Renko can keep buffing as long as some kind of healer, such as Reimu, is on the frontline, and Maribel can keep supporting the team and buffing herself even w/o Renko on the field. Similarly, most families still work when they're "separated" because of Proof of Kinship (and Yukari's awakening is simply awesome^^)
-
Quick question for everyone: Is Youmu still in the "not that good" category? Because I thought of some stuff for her...
- Replace Dexterity for Piercing Attack, to make her damage output consistent.
- Reduce the Max SLv of Youmu's spells to 5 in exchange for the following...
- increase Post use gauge from increasing SLv of Present Life Slash, and maybe grant it the ability to ignore part of the enemy's def(similar to Iron Mountain Charge).
- Add a second element and a special effect that affects damage to God Slash of Karma Wind(DRK, increases damage based on enemy debuffs and ailments) and Slash Clearing the Six Senses(VOI, damage increased based on enemy buffs).
- Allow Slash of Eternity to perform guaranteed additional attacks equal to SLv(Max SLv of 5 allows for 6 attacks per casting)
- Remove the requirement of needing full HP and the cost of losing 20% HP to use Swordmaster's Spirit. Synergy of HP cost with Desperation is noted, but ultimately is not needed as a boss fight will likely put her to that level of health anyway. If anything, a skill that allows Desperation to remain active for the rest of the battle once activated would be more valuable.
- Due to all of the above, Asura's Blood becomes unnecessary for damage output, especially due to Lv5 Slash of Eternity + Piercing Attack + Swordmaster's Spirit dealing good single target damage for MP cost and delay.
What do you think of my ideas so far? I know that it's a way too specific set of things to send to the dev, but I wanted to know what you guys think of all this...
Once Youmu is awakened, she's pretty good as a very self-suficient and (relatively) easy to use nuker, you switch her to the front before a strong attack, have her Concentrate, buff her a bit and she's ready to go: just spam God's Slash of Karma Wind until out of MP then Concentrate, rinse and repeat (until you run out of TP or the enemy dies). With Calm and Serene Mind she can keep her buffs relatively high, Asura's Blood and Desperation give her a very high damage boost and Silence like Nirvana keeps her alive. I think that Gambler is the best class for her, the increased damage received is nice to reach that 1 HP easier and the EVA boost (combined with equips that also boost EVA like Slayer Robe) allows her to dodge quite often so that she can keep attacking. The only thing to keep in mind is to always make sure Youmu has Swordmaster Spirit before the enemy gets his turn (and switch her out otherwise).
My opinion is that both Present Life Slash and God's Slash of Karma Wind are fine as they are, but Slash of Eternity needs a buff (its delay is too high), Slash Clearing the Six Senses could also use a minor damage buff.
Youmu's awakening skills are fine as they are, while your suggestions would overall increase Youmu's PHY damage output, you also cripple her ablity to deal damage from other elements with her own or subclass spellcards. Still, Swordmaster's Spirit could be changed to synergize a bit better with the rest of pre-awakening Youmu's kit. Piercing Attack is not a bad idea since Youmu struggles the most during the main/postgame due to high DEF enemies.
Example of Youmu's performance (spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EnElwzSIxE&t=20m0s (still kinda overshadowed by Nitori though)
-
Yeah, Youmu is still kind of glum and blah until very late in the game, but at least her awakening is absolutely top-class.
-
Sorry to be quite blunt but... have you actually read my post? I know it's pretty long, but nothing of what I said has anything to do with what you're seemingly answering to... I never claimed we should have no gimmick chars, nor that all chars should be equally good. What I talked about was about how some gimmicky chars are not very fun to play with (regardless of how good or bad they are), for reasons I've elaborated in my post.
I understood that. I was saying that where you say aren't fun/gimmicks hold them back from being great (ala Tokiko) I find an interesting sort of "challenge" in exploring how to make them work. Finding out "how to use" a character is a lot of the fun in this game for me, so having everyone kind of just work out of the box with suboptimal investment sounds like a downgrade to me on the whole. I feel that reworking gimmick characters to be more generally useful/more natural to play well could damage that sort of thought excercise and make each playthrough more alike one another.
-
Going over the non-Tenshi things that have been mentioned recently and adding things as I think of them,
-Adjust PAR to have a more substantial effect against higher SPD targets
-Increase the damage on Aya's spell card Wind God's Fan.
-Adjust the effect of the sub item Magic Sword "Chaos". Presently, it creates some imbalance between ATK and MAG characters.
-Adjust the effect of the sub item Scourge. Presently, it is weaker than the other items that are created using the Iron Man's Headband material item, such as Tupsimati.
-Reduce the power of Parsee's spell card Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely and make its condition for use easier to meet. Improve the damage of Midnight Anathema Ritual.
-Reduce the delay of Tokiko's spell cards The Count of Monte Cristo's Vengeance, Musketeer d'Artagnan's Recklessness, and The Future of Non-von Neumann Processors when not under the effect of Reading. Adjust the effect of the Awakening skill Tokiko's Thick Book Martial Arts to grant an ATK and DEF buff when not under the effect of Reading, and to grant a MAG and MND buff when under the effect of Reading. Add a MAG increasing effect to the skill Victim of Reimu and Marisa's Brutality.
-Adjust the effect of Shou's skill Bishamonten's Rage to be stronger and easier to activate. Adjust Aura of Justice's counter consumption to be more useful. Buff Dazzling Gold.
-Change Kokoro's Mask mechanic to be able to select masks when switching. Having to Concentrate multiple times in a row to change masks is too restrictive. Buff The Man of Qi Worries About the Earth.
-Regarding synergy skills such as Tenshi's Girl of Bhava-agra and Keine's With Mokou, there is a significant loss in damage if the player does not activate the skill, limiting character choices. Please adjust these characters so that they are stronger by themselves.
-Increase the damage of Youmu's spell card Slash of Eternity, and reduce the delay. Increase the damage of Slash Clearing the Six Senses.
Regarding Kokoro specifically, the only thing that comes to mind that makes her masks more usable is to have her Awakening grant spell cards that force a specific mask. Also, earlier I said I wanted Akyuu's Awakening spell card Miare's Great Knowledge to maintain the same effect as Protecting Art of Wisdom, but I think that this would be imbalanced (both for the game and for Akyuu's Protecting Art of Wisdom, which has worse delay and a higher MP cost) and that there would likely need to be some kind of compensation for it, such as increasing the delay or decreasing the Boost effect. It would be better to simply fix the bug and leave the spell card working as it was intended to.
Also, for Gambler, I think that adjusting the "increase damage done and taken" skill to have the "consume HP to increase damage" skill idea's effect is better than outright adding a new skill. By keeping Gambler at two skills, it's easier to balance, as there's less risk involved in the possibility of players getting too much damage by stacking all of its skills.
For Hina, it occurred to me that Two-Way Curse is a lot more difficult to activate on her than it should be because of Spinning More Than Usual, and the proposed adjustments I had in mind would have made it impossible to use Two-Way Curse and Spinning More Than Usual, because it would cover every status effect besides SHK and DTH. Because of that, I think Spinning More Than Usual should keep the status effect on Hina instead of removing it, and maybe negate the negative effects.
There were some other things but I lost track of them, I'll remember them later.
Ah yeah, one of them was to change Aspiration Surge's element from MYS to something else, in order to provide more coverage for MAG attackers. Not only do a lot of MAG attackers have MYS element spell cards, the basic attack command is MYS element for them, and Sorcerer powers it up pretty nicely. Although Aspiration Surge is still stronger than the powered up Magic Attack, I think it would be more useful if Aspiration Surge was a different element from MYS, such as SPI. In order to avoid redundancy with Archmage's spell cards, the only options are FIR, NTR, PHY, and SPI. PHY wouldn't make sense, and I think it shouldn't be FIR because of Explosive Flame Sword being its counterpart, so that leaves NTR or SPI. Of the two, SPI seems the best fit.
Example of Youmu's performance (spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EnElwzSIxE&t=20m0s (still kinda overshadowed by Nitori though)
Regarding Fundoshi Man
, I'd like to see how Akyuu w/ Dragon God's Power handles it. I've been going all in on SPD for support due to Power of the Child of Miare's resurrection effect, but doing the same for offense, combining Super Incantation with a powerful spell card and Akyuu's excellent base MP + MP recovery...man, that should be something fun to try out.
For the run itself, I was initially thinking "wow Nitori really does need nerfing, look at how well she competes with Youmu at max Asura's Blood!", but then it occurred to me that Nitori has Magic Sword "Chaos", so her damage would probably be more reasonable without it. A small nerf should still be sufficient.
EDIT: Scratch the "make Tenshi and Keine better solo". I did a quick damage check for World Creation Press on Tenshi, with max buffs on everything a 20% ATK/MAG increase from Girl of Bhava-agra would be only 12% more damage compared to 28% as it currently is, although I think my DEF assumptions are too low at this point in the game, still using 1m. Regardless, my concern here is that by buffing Tenshi and nerfing Girl of Bhava-agra, Iku would become less effective at increasing Tenshi's damage than most damage increasing passives. I think it's better to have her more reliant on Iku specifically.
-
I don't know if Two-Way Curse works the same way, but Adversity works on Debuffs, I've noticed it via Remilia. http://puu.sh/AtM7Y/a55f47ffdc.jpg It's the only thing that could only be there with a Debuff on Remi as far as I know.
-
Two-Way Curse doesn't count debuffs regrettably.
-
-Reduce the power of Parsee's spell card Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely and make its condition for use easier to meet. Improve the damage of Midnight Anathema Ritual.
I think that Parsee is fine as she is, inflicting TRR is now relatively trivial in Plus Disk because of Reisen completely ignoring status resistances (20% of the time anyway), the actual problem so far is that a lot of bosses in Plus Disk seem to resist DRK (it was the opposite in the main game where basically everything was weak to DRK and resistant to MYS). Midnight Anatema Ritual is specifically a spellcard used to inflict statuses (and with Green Eyed Monster inflicts a 75000 TRR and 60000 SIL), so I think that its lower damage is justified.
-
Hmm, I was thinking that Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely was a little too powerful for neutral or DRK weak bosses, especially because it is multi-target, so it is devastating with Reisen's Lunatic Red Eyes. But I guess it's fine as it is due to absolutely requiring TRR to do anything. I'll scratch that then.
Would appreciate more input on game balance, I think I'll be able to write up everything so far within 2-3 more days. I'd like to make it as comprehensive as possible before sending it, while also omitting things that are superfluous or undesirable. Of course, everyone else is welcome to writing up their own messages to 3peso too!
-
For reference, Parsee dealt about 70m with Jealousy of the Kind of Lovely to the
Man of Fundoshi
with full buffs and Jealousy lv5, while Nitori did 93m with Super Scope 3D with full buffs, Overheat lv5 and one member of the Youkai Mountain Alliance out. I adjusted their gems, skills,etc but not their library levels and experience so Parsee should be able to deal a bit more technically (due to her very low library costs and the fact Nitori has gained a bit more experience). I feel like its pretty fair given that it has 30% less delay and only costs 6 MP (its also getting the 30% DRK boost which Nitori needs Yuugi for).
I feel like if a boss is weak to TRR and neutral to DRK, Parsee can probably deal more damage just by using Midnight Anatema Ritual and then spamming either Large Box and Small Box or a subclass spell the enemy is weak to to abuse the 64% extra damage without having to reapply TRR every other turn (then again, if you have Reisen as a dedicated status inflicter maybe its viable since 32% is not a very high delay anyway). That said, I would say Green Eyed Monster could be changed to increase the status strength by a flat amount instead of a %, Grudge Returning is technically your spell used to inflcit TRR to resistant enemies (that can't be inflicted by Midnight Anatema Ritual), and a 13500 resisted TRR actually ends up being somewhere around 5000-6000, which can run out before Parsee even gets her next turn if the boss is fast enough; something like a flat 10000-15000 strength increase may be a nice QoL change that makes Parsee a bit less reliant on Aya/Reisen.
-
EDIT: Scratch the "make Tenshi and Keine better solo". I did a quick damage check for World Creation Press on Tenshi, with max buffs on everything a 20% ATK/MAG increase from Girl of Bhava-agra would be only 12% more damage compared to 28% as it currently is, although I think my DEF assumptions are too low at this point in the game, still using 1m. Regardless, my concern here is that by buffing Tenshi and nerfing Girl of Bhava-agra, Iku would become less effective at increasing Tenshi's damage than most damage increasing passives. I think it's better to have her more reliant on Iku specifically.
3peso could always give all those chars an awakening skill which causes said synergies to work (at full or half effect) when the other char is in the back
-
-Regarding the effectiveness of Keine's History Accumulation, I believe that the bonuses take too long to accumulate. In particular, for using Keine as an attacker, Sword is too weak to be worth accumulating. I would like to see the effect of the Awakening skill Ability to Create History adjusted so that it strengthens the effect of the Sword and Mirror counters.
No argument against that it takes awhile to build up, but the counter maxes at SIXTY PERCENT MORE ATTACK, which is already a pretty ridiculous amount... if you throw in Mokou and the base stat enhancers you'll have in plus, Keine can get a Magic stat higher than a fully tweaked Flan's attack in a full SDM party. Like... almost 30% more. It's somewhat offset by Flan selfbuffing her atk by 16% every turn she takes, but yeah. Keine's got solid affinities, 15.2 hp with awakening, and very cheap libary+fast levels. (TBH the levels/library probably offset the atk selfbuff already)
Keine with one of the special subclasses is no joke and Mokou's already an awesome tank option. If you give Keine Dragon God, you've even got Mokou's Blazing to boost it, and Keine's atk stat isn't bad; it's only 4 points lower than her mag- which isn't a lot after stat tweaking. (Although you might want Winner for better move variety) Considering that Keine might, y'know, want to self-buff her atk/mag sometimes, and that she has a large value off Mokou alone, the build isn't that unreasonable after you get specials subclasses for good moves.
That being said, it takes several turns to build up to that stat level so you do have to work for the insane values and it's reasonable I haven't heard of someone actually running Were-Keine nuker. (Plus, Flan's actually a lot more workable in plus disk for staying out, and I'm probably gonna get in on that myself, maybe even run the SDM apart from Patchy)
-
For reference, Parsee dealt about 70m with Jealousy of the Kind of Lovely to the Man of Fundoshi
with full buffs and Jealousy lv5, while Nitori did 93m with Super Scope 3D with full buffs, Overheat lv5 and one member of the Youkai Mountain Alliance out. I adjusted their gems, skills,etc but not their library levels and experience so Parsee should be able to deal a bit more technically (due to her very low library costs and the fact Nitori has gained a bit more experience). I feel like its pretty fair given that it has 30% less delay and only costs 6 MP (its also getting the 30% DRK boost which Nitori needs Yuugi for).
Hm, that level of damage does seem fair. Regarding Grudge Returning, I think simply boosting its base TRR would be easier to balance than adjusting Green-Eyed Monster, since it would be a less complicated adjustment that gets the same result.
3peso could always give all those chars an awakening skill which causes said synergies to work (at full or half effect) when the other char is in the back
Oh, like Tokiko. Durr. That is a really obvious solution that I totally overlooked. This is a good idea, yeah. Would be ideal to go half effect with it. Although it does still have the problem that you can get more damage by keeping the character in the back and using a higher damage increasing skill, I think it's acceptable.
No argument against that it takes awhile to build up, but the counter maxes at SIXTY PERCENT MORE ATTACK, which is already a pretty ridiculous amount... if you throw in Mokou and the base stat enhancers you'll have in plus, Keine can get a Magic stat higher than a fully tweaked Flan's attack in a full SDM party. Like... almost 30% more. It's somewhat offset by Flan selfbuffing her atk by 16% every turn she takes, but yeah. Keine's got solid affinities, 15.2 hp with awakening, and very cheap libary+fast levels. (TBH the levels/library probably offset the atk selfbuff already)
OK, yeah. Keine does double the damage Tenshi does with Dragon God's Breath on 1f mobs when she has max buffs, although that's without an equivalent to Mokou's Blazing for Tenshi. That should probably be left alone, against enemies with proper DEF/MND the damage difference should favor Keine even more. I was thinking that the cap would be adjusted to match a buff to the effect (I.E. 20% and cap of 3 or 15% and cap of 4), but with that level of firepower I think that Keine is fine with just buffs to her personal spells and an improvement in Impervious Formation Change. Although I still think it's impractical to cap her counter, at 1-3 it should be sufficient as it is.
-
Just for fun, Nitori vs Keine vs Patchouli (didn't adjust equipment or levels but Boosts and Gems are mega and 20/20 for all 3). All 3 have all the possible boosts they can get (Elementalist, Herbalist, synergies, Overheat/Grand Incantation/History Accumulation):
-
Two-Way Curse doesn't count debuffs regrettably.
Then why in blazes does Hina have the skill, then? She can't reliably inflict status ailments on herself, only debuffs, and Two-Way Curse would be perfect for Hina if it would activate from those debuffs.
As for random talks about Patchy, I think that she needs more HP. The HP Boosting awakening skill isn't enough, that skill needs 4 levels instead of 2(base hp would hit 10.8 rather than 8.8 ) so she can at least take a hit from magic...
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlXDJBhmiKs (spoilers)
And luck (?) + some AI research strikes yet again! Does anybody else get lucky on their boss fights like that? I mean I did some risky stuff, like leaving Patchouli in the front row for the entirety of the battle, but still. I'd like to think I'm not this bad at this game. Also for some reason my Flandre doesn't deal all that much damage.
-
I mean, none of the characters that can learn Two-Way Curse can inflict themselves with status effects ( they even all have very good TRR resistance), so its more of a thematic choice. The actual purpose is similar to Kasen's Adversity in giving you a powerful effect in the event that you actually get affected by a status (nevermind the fact that all lasting statuses except TRR and HVY are pretty crippling even with the bonuses you get from the skill). Hina is probably the one who can use it the less, since not only does she have Spinning More than Usual (which, to be fair, I have never used because it clashes with her debuff mechanic) but Sorrow of Exiled Dolls halfs the duration of statuses once she gets her turn anyway. As Lonely suggested, having Spinning More than Usual just eliminate the negative effects but keep the statuses on her would make the skill actually usable, Sorrow of Exiled Dolls could then have Hina absorb half of the other frontliners statuses on her turn or smt.
-
Adversity really shouldn't work with debuffs, considering the original wording of all these skills use the same term (状態異常 which is abnormal status), and I would've expected all of them to not count debuffs. It's probably an oversight on Adversity's side, really.
Two-way curse's distribution suggests that it was more of a flavor skill than a practical one. The characters it's given to are associated with unpleasant things (Parsee's manipulation of jealousy, Hina's association with misfortune, and Orin's association with vengeful spirits).
-
Then why in blazes does Hina have the skill, then? She can't reliably inflict status ailments on herself, only debuffs, and Two-Way Curse would be perfect for Hina if it would activate from those debuffs.
As for random talks about Patchy, I think that she needs more HP. The HP Boosting awakening skill isn't enough, that skill needs 4 levels instead of 2(base hp would hit 10.8 rather than 8.8 ) so she can at least take a hit from magic...
Well, it's not like Parsee and Rin can inflict anything on themselves at all, but they have Two-Way Curse too. I'm thinking 3peso wanted to make them benefit from getting status'd by enemies, but I think it would be more effective if there was a way to self-inflict status here. It's pretty easy to self-debuff, so those might be counted separately to prevent Two-Way Curse from being too easy to use. Think an effect like that on Toxicologist would work. As it currently is, Toxicologist is kinda bad outside of HVY application with an Instant Attack character or something.
I agree with Patchouli, she and other low HP characters need defensive buffs. I was thinking Kaguya could get Resurrection via Awakening (she's slow and has low base TP, so it's not like it's a free pass for letting her get hit), Chen could get a way to buff her EVA, Suwako's Awakening skill Chytrid Resistance could buff her HP, etc.
Back when I was prepping for Serpent of Chaos, I made a spreadsheet to calculate character stats so that I could get an idea of how each character stood for stats. I haven't redone it for the current levels, but this is how things looked at Reimu 540, library 600, max HP Gems/Orbs, HP Second Boost, and 3x MGL for equipment, with any additional HP boosts the character had applied (such as Patchouli and Yuyuko's Awakening). No level up bonuses were applied, this is the minimum HP under such a setup. Rinnosuke had his ordinary High Boost skills since the Giga Boosts costs an exorbitant amount of SP.
Renko: 632K
Nitori: 490K
Komachi: 483K
Miko: 478K
Meiling: 436K
Mamizou: 428K
Yuyuko: 426K
Remilia: 424K
Flandre: 410K
Youmu: 407K
Satori: 407K
Momiji: 396K
Byakuren: 396K
Rinnosuke: 394K
Wriggle: 392K
Kasen: 386K
Yuugi: 386K
Tenshi: 385K
Keine: 383K
Shou: 383K
Mokou: 382K
Sakuya: 378K
Eirin: 376K
Ran: 375K
Kanako: 371K
Suika: 368K
Yuuka: 368K
Iku: 366K
Kokoro: 366K
Tokiko: 366K
Kogasa: 361K
Sanae: 357K
Alice: 356K
Aya: 354K
Reimu: 349K
Reisen: 349K
Nazrin: 347K
Eiki: 347K
Mystia: 346K
Maribel: 338K
Minoriko: 332K
Yukari: 328K
Futo: 328K
Utsuho: 326K
Koishi: 326K
Hina: 318K
Cirno: 315K
Rumia: 306K
Rin: 296K
Akyuu: 284K
Chen: 283K
Parsee: 281K
Marisa: 275K
Suwako: 263K
Patchouli: 257K
Kaguya: 231K
I think that the characters below the 320K range in this could use an HP buff, but Chen, Marisa, Suwako, Patchouli, and Kaguya are the main ones I think should be addressed. Parsee is exempt because she has 200 VOI resistance. I think I'll specify improvements to Suwako, Patchouli, and Kaguya, in addition to the whole "DEF and MND have a low effect in Plus Disk" and "VOI attacks are too dangerous to low base HP characters" thing.
I also added a bit about Satori's Spell Card Recollection about how, if she uses Aya's Divine Grandson's Advent, she sets the target's ATB to 0, due to how Slv works with it. I think that this could double as buffing Spell Card Recollection to be level 1 instead of 0, but all I said was that I wanted it to be fixed, it doesn't really matter how it's done as long as it's fixed.
Also, I did some testing on 30f mobs regarding the strength of Tenshi's synergy skill with Iku and concluded she was getting 30% more damage from Iku, so I think I'll just not say anything about it and Keine's synergy skill with Mokou after all.
I've also been thinking that skills that require a character to be defeated (either the skill owner or other party members) are unreasonably difficult to use and should see some changes in conditions. For example, Reimu and Sanae's skills could be treated as "If skill holder has less than x% HP, Concentrate does Y effect in addition to the usual effect", Cirno's Awakening could have a TP reducing resurrection skill so that Gale Scattered Blizzard Petals is easier to use, stuff like that. I think all I will ask on the matter is to make the skills easier to use though.
Also for some reason my Flandre doesn't deal all that much damage.
It's probably because her offensive buffs were just ATK+16%. Since Dragon God's Breath scales off both ATK and MAG and is reduced by both DEF and MND, it is very important to maximize your ATK + MAG to make the most of its damage. Also, as a general thing, you still want to focus on one stat for level up bonuses since you'll get a higher combined ATK + MAG that way. It's not like it's (ATK - DEF) + (MAG - MND), but (ATK + MAG) - (DEF + MND). A similar principle applies to equipment, in that the higher combination of +x% ATK/MAG won't necessarily mean higher stats than a higher % increase to a character's higher offensive stat. I'm not sure how significant this might've been for your damage output though. It's definitely the lack of high ATK/MAG buffs that prevented Flandre from wrecking.
-
Its worth noting that Chen can buff her EVA through Ran's Ability to use Shikigamis, though I would say making it work regardless of Chen being on the front or back would be a nice QoL change that also fits with Ran's "buffing the backline" thematic.
-
The Robe of Lords item is seemingly bugged. Instead of providing an increase of +128 Wind affinity, it multiplies the base affinity of the character by 1.28 and then adds the result. For example Aya gains +256 Wind affinity while Rinnosuke only gains +102. I first saw it discovered by a streamer named Yggdrasiface so credit to them.
Edit to correct a typo.
-
Huh, what a peculiar bug. Adding that to the list of bugs to report then, checked and confirmed it personally as well.
tbh that's a really cool effect though.
-
If anyone wants it, here's a NG+ save file with all characters, subclasses and Awakenings unlocked.
-
Hi guys
What did you do after beating Green and Red boss on 29F? Straight went to Deformed Trio?
The thing is, I beat Green and Red at average level of 560, so I'd be dead if I went to other 29F boss, but I am stuck at 29F anyway since everything on 30F is locked
Am I missing something or I have to grind at least 250 levels
-
You can either go trough the Infinity Corridor to get more Greater Jewels of Awakening or defeat the Kedama Goddess if you haven't (this lets you pass through one of the rocks on f30). There's also bf11 if you haven't explored it yet. You eventually will have to grind levels though, and its recommended you do it on f30, since there's an area where a metal slime-type enemy spawns.
-
Just for fun, Nitori vs Keine vs Patchouli (didn't adjust equipment or levels but Boosts and Gems are mega and 20/20 for all 3). All 3 have all the possible boosts they can get (Elementalist, Herbalist, synergies, Overheat/Grand Incantation/History Accumulation):
When you consider that Patchouli's Grand Incantation makes that effectively the damage of two turns, it's kind of telling that Keine still notably outdamaged her... although, using a Composite attack with Patchouli makes it a little off for obvious reasons. I imagine you wanted to limit variance, though. Also, lol Nitori. Broke as shit and it's not even Super Scope. Base stat increases+maintennance gets dumb, looking forward to Miko in endgame- she doesn't need a superscope-type move to be absurd, I'm just excited about stuff like doubled affinity increase.
I'd also be curious about seeing that analysis on Akyuu, because how good is Super Incantation really? You'd need to factor in that her library costs are vastly cheaper, though.
-
Super Incantation is really good. Akyuu with Start of Heavenly Demise wrecks basically everything in a few hits. I assume that the other high-power subclass attacks would work about as well.
-
I'd also be curious about seeing that analysis on Akyuu, because how good is Super Incantation really? You'd need to factor in that her library costs are vastly cheaper, though.
Did a quick test on 1f mobs, Akyuu does about double the amount of damage as Tenshi with max DEF/MND and a 50% Boost (but no Keystones of Spirit). She has 122 MP with the setup I tried her with (max MP Orbs/Gems, MP Second Boost, Tokugawa Statue, 2x Tupsimati), which, when factoring in Concentrate and Phenomenal Force of Will, allows her to use Dragon God's Breath 16 times before being unable to afford it, assuming no other form of MP recovery is involved like Magic Circuit. It's probably safe to ditch Tokugawa Statue for Divine Falchion for even more damage.
This was at same library level, so if you want to factor in library costs, Akyuu would have an even larger advantage. And because Tupsimati gives an HP increase and Scourge does not, Akyuu actually ends up being more durable than Tenshi would with 2x Scourge, even without factoring that she has Power of the Child of Miare and 200 VOI resistance. Thanks to Dragon God's Power's affinity increases, she ends up with fairly balanced affinities overall outside of PHY, and she has 135 resistance to all status except PSN, PAR, and SIL (45 each).
Really need to try this out in practice to see how it works, haven't been playing due to trying to write that e-mail. Should finish that up later today unless there are a lot of things that get mentioned here.
-
The problem is, double damage is "average damage" because Super Incantation requires two turns. Still, it's good if anything has a desperation phase. A good time to actually break out elementalist, too.
If she's actually -durable-, it also means she's potentially an offensive Mokou (resurrecting nuker) with some upsides and good support moves to use here and there. And that would be pretty considerable.
-
Well, considering this is Tenshi with a 50% Boost and max DEF/MND, I wouldn't call the damage average, but the big appeal for me with Akyuu is that she has twice as much base MP as Tenshi does (60 compared to 28) and is really MP efficient thanks to Concentrate + Phenomenal Force of Will. It's actually for spamming Dragon God's Breath that I'm interested in, as opposed to burst damage. If Dragon God's Power's skills worked properly, there would be an additional +1 MP recovery per turn, and Akyuu would be able to restore 10 MP between every Dragon God's Breath.
The specific use I had in mind would have been for Fundoshi Man
because of the multiple phases and changing weaknesses that all correspond to Dragon God's Breath's elements. If I were to try to solo it all with Tenshi, then she would run out of MP rapidly, but Akyuu can do similar damage for a much longer period of time. Dragon God's Breath is a powerful spell card, but its weakness is its horrible MP efficiency. This weakness is mitigated by Akyuu and other characters with high MP efficiency, like those with Grand Incantation or Rapid Charge, or Satori's Small MP Recovery, and it becomes something that can be used somewhat freely.
For comparison, under the setup I had for Tenshi, she would have 78 MP and only be able to use Dragon God's Breath 5 times before being unable to meet the cost, compared to Akyuu's 16. That's a really high level of sustainability for such a strong spell card.
-
Plus if she's somewhat durable and has her mega-surrection, she's likely to stay up. You also have a good point in that, among other things, there was 50% boost on Tenshi and Akyuu doesn't need to maintain. Hmm, yeah, that sounds pretty neat. I might want to try it out myself when I get there.
...oof, which reminds me, time to do b2f. The random fights on b1f didn't really get any easier, and b2f is so much worse... x.x;; Should I just run away?? I'm not used to having this much trouble. My team is lv~180.
-
Are you buffing your attackers? It wasn't until the basement floors that I found this to be a defining factor in mobbing. The level 200+ enemies will remain a problem for a while longer, but you can clean up the trash this way at least. The higher level enemies also drop really good items for where they appear. The Gate of Pandemonium (disgusting mouth thing) drops an item that gives +256% ATK and several other smaller effects for example. The book enemy on B2f drops a MAG+240% item, these are the highest ATK/MAG boosting items available by B2f. Acquiring some of these might help out with wiping out the enemy encounters as well.
The Plus Disk enemy encounters certainly require more preparation than the main game and sometimes involve more TP loss or even defeated characters, but with some adjustments to how you fight them they should be more manageable than they currently are. I think B1-2f represent a bit of a difficulty spike as well, more specifically B1f, I didn't have any similar problems afterwards in Plus Disk. The level difference in the weakest and strongest enemies remains about a static 50 or so even in 30f (level range of 766-820 compared to B1f's 162-218), and the equipment available is better than it was when first challenging B1f, especially once you get access to the Infinite Corridor. So it should get easier as you continue to proceed through Plus Disk.
-
That's encouraging, but unfortunately my party's buffing setup is... a little lacking. My main support involves Enhancer Renko, Byakuren, and Rinnosuke. Charge is very expensive and Byakuren has to charge up first, and Rinnosuke isn't really buff central. Now that Byakuren doesn't dole out 100% buffs anymore and monopolize the buffing scene, maybe I need to mix in more buff strength...? Hmmm.
Renko could pick up the enhancer atk/mag buff for something more ease-of-use, I guess.
-
I have been able to cruise my way through the basement since around level 200 - but note that before going there, I farmed Ame-no-Murakumo to get maxxed out gems on nearly everybody, and those gems matter way more than I would have expected.
-
Now its Keine vs Akyuu vs Patchouli. All with mega MAG boost and 20 MAG gems, this time I also adjusted their experience (2837m) and library money (34k). Again, all synergies and damage boosts (including Akyuu's extra damage on weakness) are applied:
[attach=1]
-
Observation notes
1.Keine matches Patchouli's Grand Incantation damage. This is a pretty good show that, even without max atk/mag history stacks, nuker Keine is an absolutely worthy idea if you run Mokou tank.
2.Akyuu has almost as much MAG as Patchouli. Base stat tweak+cheap library is powerful... plus Patchouli levels so slow, jeez. She's... never really seemed good in LoT2. I wouldn't even consider her without full sdm team.
3.Akyuu's damage is, uh? Middle and right enemy is almost TWICE damage. The other people don't have much variance :S I expected her to compare to patchouli based on the damage on far right.
#3 is the weird one. XD Like, I was expecting more like the far-right tier damage in general. That's the one that makes her look exciting and excellent.
-
Oh yeah, the rightmost enemy has very low defences, while the middle enemy has relatively high defences, this is what generates so much variance.
-
Wait, how much HP does
King of Chaos
have? Looks like it's getting melted from those numbers, isn't that a 2-3 shot or something on Akyuu's end?
-
The thing is, Keine and Patchouli got 10~15% variance between middle and right, which is what you'd expect.
Akyuu got literally about 85% variance. wh-what? It's like she was wearing a Genji glove that procced on the rightmost enemy.
-
Wait, how much HP does King of Chaos
have? Looks like it's getting melted from those numbers, isn't that a 2-3 shot or something on Akyuu's end?
He has 666m HP, though he fully heals at about 80% HP so its effectively 800m .
The thing is, Keine and Patchouli got 10~15% variance between middle and right, which is what you'd expect.
Akyuu got literally about 85% variance. wh-what? It's like she was wearing a Genji glove that procced on the rightmost enemy.
I believe the middle enemy has about 10m MND (very approximate numbers), while the rightmost has almost none, so given that Akyuu has a 6.5 boost (5.5 from Grand Incantation x 1.16 from weakness boost), she gets 65m extra damage on him (and that's without the boost from the weakness itself). Meanwhile, Keine's damage is multiplied based on her own MAG, which is significantly lower and its only about 2.2 times (1.6 from her History Accumulation x 1.4 from Mokou), and the Herb of Awakening Boost doesn't exactly compare to Akyuu's incantation. Patchouli is in the middle since she gets a MAG boost from SDM (35% more MAG) and also a damage boost from Grand Incantation, but its only 2.4 so the difference isn't as significant. Again, all of this is very approximate by my part.
EDIT: 30m was a bit too high of an estimate by my part, seems to be closer to 10m.
-
He has 666m HP, though he fully heals at about 80% HP so its effectively 800m .
That's relieving, seems like a fairly reasonable level of durability.
-
You can either go trough the Infinity Corridor to get more Greater Jewels of Awakening or defeat the Kedama Goddess if you haven't (this lets you pass through one of the rocks on f30). There's also bf11 if you haven't explored it yet. You eventually will have to grind levels though, and its recommended you do it on f30, since there's an area where a metal slime-type enemy spawns.
I somehow forgot about BF11 and Kedama Goddess
Exploring bf11 gave me lots of free exp points to level up (why though), so thank you
-
Still curious about disabling spell animations, just have no idea where to begin to look to do so. In LoT2, I mean. I assume something with Cheat Engine, just not sure wheeeere to look. Also speedhack doesn't seem to like working with the game. :V
-
OK, I finished writing up the e-mail I want to send 3peso. This is a summary of the details in it.
-Dragon God's Power's Divine Protection skills are nonfunctional.
-Akyuu's Miare's Great Knowledge also has the effect of Protecting Art of Wisdom.
-Shadow Kokoro has no sprite.
-Marisa's Hakkero Charge Mode does not increase the Hakkero Charge counter in the back.
-A bug that appears to increase a character's damage occurs when MP is reduced to less than 1.
-Sub equipment Lord of Robes' WND+128% effect is instead 1.28x the character's base WND affinity.
-Damage reducing effects also reduce the power of healing spells.
-Elemental damage increasing effects also increase the power of enemy healing effects.
-Koishi does not get Proof of Kinship.
-9f's additional area has an inaccessible item.
-No skill exists to increase WND damage, decrease NTR damage, or increase damage against Oni or Dragons.
-Eirin's Hourai Elixir and Magician's Magic Circuit gain no benefit from increasing the Slv.
-Kogasa's MP recovery is 32.
-Adversity's description says it is activated by status effects, but debuff effects also activate it.
-Add an additional effect to Keine's Impervious Formation Change.
-Buff the damage of Keine's Old History -Ancient History- and New History -Next History- spell cards.
-Add an effect for Youkai Mountain Alliance? and Four Devas of Mt. Ooe? to include members in the back.
-Buff the damage of Youmu's Slash of Eternity and Slash Clearing the Six Senses.
-Add an effect for Demarcation to Rumia's All-Covering Robe of Darkness.
-Buff Komachi's MAG.
-Buff the damage multiplier of Komachi's Scythe that Chooses the Dead.
-Nerf Nitori's ATK.
-Buff the TRR effect on Parsee's Grudge Returning.
-Add Resurrection to Kaguya's Awakening.
-Adjust Resurrection so that the character has a minimum of 1 HP.
-Buff the damage of Aya's Wind God's Fan.
-Change the effect for increasing Slv on Aya's Divine Grandson's Advent, and change the normal effect to set ATB to 20000.
-Increase the MP recovery of Mystia's Soothing Type?
-Remove the effect that removes status effects on Hina's Spinning More Than Usual.
-Make Hina's Role of Nagashi-bina easier to use with auxillary skills that buff the stats of the whole frontline.
-Make Hina's Sorrow of Exiled Dolls remove status effects from allies and place them on her.
-Adjust how character ATB becomes 0 when Satori uses Aya's Divine Grandson's Advent with Spell Card Recollection.
-Buff Patchouli's Asthma Relieving Medicine.
-Increase the postuse gauge amount on Reisen's Gas-Woven Orb.
-Slightly increase Iku's firepower.
-Buff Suwako's Ability to Create Earth.
-Add an HP increasing effect to Suwako's Chytrid Resistance.
-Increase the postuse gauge amount on Tenshi's State of Enlightenment.
-Add an additional effect to Tenshi's Keystone Formation.
-Remove the requirement of a status or debuff on Tenshi's Murakumo's Former Owner.
-Increase Yuyuko's firepower.
-Make Shou's Bishamonten's Rage easier to use.
-Buff the recovery power of Miko's Wishful Soul of Desire.
-Buff the damage of Kokoro's The Man of Qi Worries About the Earth.
-Adjust Kokoro's Emotion Mask effect to allow players to freely select masks.
-Increase the postuse gauge amount of Tokiko's The Count of Monte Cristo's Vengeance, Musketeer d'Artagnan's Recklessness, and The Future of Non-von Neumann Processors when not under Reading.
-Change Tokiko's Victim of Reimu and Marisa's Brutality to be an ATK + MAG effect.
-Change the effect of Tokiko's Thick Book Martial Arts to be ATK + DEF when not under Reading, and MAG + MND when under Reading.
-Greatly buff the damage of Iai Slash.
-Change the element of Aspiration Surge.
-Change Gambler's All or Nothing's demerit to be reducing HP while attacking.
-Buff Swordmaster and Archmage in general.
-Improve the effects of Ninja's Lacquered Stones and Roughneck's Wisdom.
-DEF and MND have a low effect in reducing damage, consequently buffs and other effects that increase DEF and MND have a low value.
-Characters with low HP have a hard time surviving VOI attacks, particularly against enemies with Space-Time Warp.
-There are many more useful subclass spells for ATK than there are MAG.
-Magic Sword Chaos has a very strong ATK increase, it is harder to increase MAG with sub equipment than ATK.
I've opted to omit some things (ideas I and others discussed) because I think they may be of lesser importance or too difficult to try to balance. I think I'll leave it at this, but if there's anything I should omit, please let me know. I don't want to suggest undesirable changes to 3peso. I would feel bad if something was changed as a result of my input and it wasn't wanted.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot, adjust RNG. That one's important, so I'll add that.
-
Does Nitori's shop ever get new items in Plus, or should I blow some money for the treasure key achievement as soon as I feel like it?
-
You can find new craft recipes that unlock additional items for crafting, but for purchasing items with money, nothing is added at all.
-
If he changes Divine Grandson's Advent to always be 20000 ATB that'll fix Satori setting people's ATB to 0 by proxy. Probably still worth including though in case he would decide to change one but not the other.
-
I was peeking in a stream for a bit and they said once you've got EVA boost learned on everyone, plus eva from equips you have on anyway, evasion is pretty common. Awakened Mystia would be pretty awesome if that's the case, as her eva debuff works from the back.
...god it's hard to pick only 12 characters now. In the meantime, I've gotten to b3f! Progress!
-
It strongly depends on the accuracy of the enemy in question. For example, I think
Abyss Rumia's
attacks missed more often than they hit...but most of the time it's not really that common unless the character has really high EVA. Like, against Red Hero and Green Brute
, I had 4 attacks dodged, 3 were by Rumia, who had 142 EVA. Because of the length of the fight (about 12 minutes) and there being two enemies (Mystia's skill only debuffs the attacking enemy and not the whole group), it's not like there was a significant debuffing effect.
But hey, she's an Instant Attack character and the only one with an effect from the back, so that's already pretty great.
-
So, what information do we currently have on the
metal kedama
? Do we know exactly where it is and how rare it is?
-
I can proofread the mail after it's translated to Japanese, if you'd like.
-
So, what information do we currently have on the metal kedama
? Do we know exactly where it is and how rare it is?
There are a few spots where it spawns, one of them is the place where the switch to unlock the f29 rocks was and there's another one in one of the squares on the southeast of the map. They are ridiculously fast, have very high EVA, very high defences and are weak to DTH.
[attach=1]
EDIT: On a different note, how good is Shou's Dazzling Gold? Going by the numbers it seems to be kinda garbage given it has 7 MP cost and the low MND isn't that helpful at this point, though it does have the strongest PAR in the game.
EDIT2: Wait, I just noticed the wiki is wrong about Dazzling Gold, it inflicts a 12000 HVY and a 4000 PAR. Additionally, according to the japanese wiki, the increase on Aura of Justice per Wrath counter is 5%, not 3%; it also mentions that apparently the counter doesn't increase if you don't receive at least 2 damage from the attack.
-
Oh, Dazzling Gold must have changed since the original leaked data (it probably was SIL, like... before it was implemented ingame :V). Also they weren't highly researched so it might have been a whoopsie! Please feel free to edit the wiki if you're capable. It does look like it's purpose is mostly "it's an alltarget PAR attack", which is a pretty good move type for randoms.
Some of those plus disk character reviews could use some massive shortening, too. I'll probably do that myself, tho'. I'll fix Dazzling Gold right now. edit:Fixed Shou's moves and shortened some reviews, couldn't get to Akyuu right now, gotta go~
The stream I was watching was farming metal kedamas. Rejoice, for they are not rare in those spots. Shou, the ideal "boost your farming!" character is perfect if you're willing to Awaken her by then; you should have extra awakenings if you've done the corridor far enough. Give her a bunch of speed and accuracy and her Piercing Attack passive will make one-shotting kedamas a triviality with Radiant Treasure Gun. You might need to tool someone out for extra speed if you aren't using Aya, I wouldn't know. The streamer used Aya to speed up Rinnosuke for a Shou swap-in.
If you don't want to toss in Shou, Sakuya is also perfect, with a never-miss alltarget and Piercing Attack. Anyone with Piercing Attack or a def/mnd ignoring skill will work with some Accuracy gear since they're usually solo, but there's a few double kedama enemy sets.
-
I can proofread the mail after it's translated to Japanese, if you'd like.
Ah geez, I did want it to be proofread, but I went ahead and sent it since there wasn't a whole lot of activity. My bad. Hopefully it works out.
--
Regarding the Metallic Kedama, it appears to appear everywhere in 30f, as I've seen it right on the relay point, but it sounds like it appears at a higher frequency in other locations.
EDIT: Ah yep, first encounter in the switch spot on 30f had 3 Metallic Kedama. That's uh, sure one hell of a grinding spot, wow.
-
Wow I've been grinding there for a while and have never seen 3 of them at once, 2 tops. On another note, Shou's Bishamounten's Wrath doesn't increase on dodge either, which is a bit annoying.
-
Seems I was just insanely lucky, as after a little less than half an hour I've mainly seen 1, sometimes 2 in the same encounter. Their EVA really is quite high, using Iku with Monk subclass, Hit Boost, and +66 Hit from equipment, and she still misses roughly ~10% of the time. Really good grinding though, went from around 744 to 862 on Iku in that time frame.
-
Ok so I have a request for one of you guys. I recently played through the Plus Disk and I absolutely LOVED it. It was frustrating at times, but it was overall a very fun ride; one I'd like to experience again.
Unfortunately, I was stupid enough to NOT create a save at the very start of the Plus Disk. So I'm working my way through the game again, but I'm only on 13F. It'll be a while before I can access the Plus Disk on that file.
So this leads me to my request; Does anyone happen to have a save file that hasn't started the Plus Disk yet, but has fulfilled all of the requirements to start? Preferably with all 48 regular characters, though if the file doesn't have Maribel and Renko yet that's fine too. If nobody happens to have that, then that's fine, I can make my way through the rest of the game, but I'd really rather not have to go through 13-15F's temperature puzzles again...
Thanks in advance!
-
I just happen to have one. This save should be just after I beat Enhanced Ame-no-murakumo. All the main game content is complete and the only thing left to do is move on to the plus disk.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/fgeo2j762a78e2a/save1.zip
-
Hmm, seems like Poison is still pretty decent in Plus Disk, I just tested in the
King of Chaos
boss fight and Wriggle did about 400m damage before I reached his summons' 15 turn cap. Somewhat dependent on Reisen for the lowered resistances though.
-
I just happen to have one. This save should be just after I beat Enhanced Ame-no-murakumo. All the main game content is complete and the only thing left to do is move on to the plus disk.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/fgeo2j762a78e2a/save1.zip
Thank you so much! I'll make sure to keep this save around in case I ever want to go through it a 3rd time after this run.
-
went from around 744 to 862 on Iku in that time frame.
I'm at around lvl 1500+ with my party, I wonder if maybe I'm overshooting it :-P
-
Made it to 1153 Iku after about two and a half hours of grinding total. I was shooting for 1152 for
King of Chaos
, been fighting the ? Brave Level bosses at 0.9x their level. All set for the rest of the game now!
Tried beating up B11f enemies too, but nothing interesting. They all drop the tier 2 Stat Gems, but I already grinded those out in the Infinite Corridor. Only other drops are materials. EXP wasn't that great either, roughly double that of the typical 30f enemy. Think Metallic Kedama farming is superior.
-
Any tips for beating Futo? I've been stuck on her for a while. I'm about 20 over the challenge level and she still wrecks me. I also haven't really played in months so I can't say I fully remember how to utilize everyone effectively.
She's so fast I don't feel like debuffs do much, and can cancel buffs so I don't know that buffing myself is a good strategy either. She's weak to poison and terror, but I don't know if that's actually useful.
-
Most of Futo's attacks are Physical, so good resistance to that element would help, as well as investment in defence. Her main gimmick is her plate counters, which increase when she uses most of her spellcards. When you hit her, the plate counter decreases by one. Since she buffs herself, you will probably require a debuffer or buff remover. She's also weak to physical, so use tanky attackers with physical nukes.
-
Futo is probably the hardest fight in Plus Disc, at least before Plus Disc postgame. You need to hit her hard, fast and often while being able to take a hit. I found that using SDM team worked quite well, since Remilia and Meiling can just grind down her plates and health while tanking all her attacks. Its still worth it to buff yourself, although Byakuren is probably not worth bringing along, since she can't buff without already being buffed.
-
I managed to defeat her best with Renko / Yuugi / Nitori / Maribel. Buffed Knockout in Three Steps and Super Scope can deal millions of damage.
-
I just Mountain Breaker'd her to death. Meiling's more than a little good.
Also, IRUN, that save file you posted a while back with all subclasses and awakenings unlocked from the beginning doesn't seem to be working right for me. It has most of the relay points unlocked, and most of the item lists filled out, with a ton of acheivements unlocked both related and unrelated.It doesn't even have all the characters open, their awakenings are indeed already there, but I only had the starter four.
-
I remember there being comments about Rinnosuke's "murakumo's former former owner" not actually working on all of his auxillary skills in the past. I'm still trying to figure out what my team's long-term support core is going to be (Renko+Byakuren is barely cutting it), so can anyone answer if it works on all three of his skills? Bonus points if I can get an answer on whether First Aid heals a decent amount in endgame where he can afford atk+mag high boosts.
-
Murakumo's Former Former Owner specifically applies only to healing spell cards, so it has no effect on Battle Command. As far as First Aid goes, I don't think it'll be able to heal like, half of the HP of a tank unless you put all of Rinnosuke's level bonuses into ATK or MAG, or if he receives a buff to ATK and MAG. That's just looking at the numbers though, I didn't check in-game.
-
Here's a look at Rinnosuke's stats at the end of the current patch and how much he heals with First Aid (20 gems in everything but HP and TP with 11 and 15 respectively). The upper one is with HP Giga Boost and all level up bonuses into HP, the bottom one is with MAG Giga Boost and all the level up bonuses into MAG; in both instances Rinnosuke has an 80% ATK/MAG buff. Its worth noting that if you get all of the Enhancer's passives and all of Rinnosuke's own skills (including awakening skills) you only have enough for one Giga Boost at this point.
Remember that Rinnosuke's Precise Command is currently bugged and the 50% chance to heal ailments and debuffs works on the enemies too, which makes it hard to use in boss fights.
[attach=1]
For reference, most tanky characters will have between 1-2m HP at this point, depending on how you manage level up bonuses and equipment, while bulky attackers will probably range from 500k to 1m.
-
Been a while since l posted anywhere on here, l wanted to know which translation patch do I use for Plus disk 1.203 or 1.204?
-
1.204 is the exact same as 1.203, just that it was made compatible with the 1.204 game version that came out recently (so any of the new content and dialogs aren't translated).
-
1.204 is the exact same as 1.203, just that it was made compatible with the 1.204 game version that came out recently (so any of the new content and dialogs aren't translated).
Ah ok just figured it out myself,but thank you for confirming my choice to upgrade to the current patch...now l just need to play catch up it's been 5 years since l played LoT2, but l did beat the final boss... so l just need to grind a lot and unlock A LOT of the stones that require the shadow bosses beaten.
-
There is no 1.204 for plus disk; we're only on 1.104. If you see patch for 1.203 that's for main game only.
-
Here's a look at Rinnosuke's stats at the end of the current patch and how much he heals with First Aid
Hmmm... enough to help, but considering the buffs he?s at in that case, still not exactly a great amount. Enhancer would possibly give more with its passive at least. Still considering Minoriko and a magic-heavy team instead of Eirin, or swapping Rinno for awakened Keine, or herbalist Mokou... ah jeez! @.@
-
There is no 1.204 for plus disk; we're only on 1.104. If you see patch for 1.203 that's for main game only.
Whoops made a typo for the version, but yeah l do have plus disk 1.104, just need to grind now.
-
Ah yes, that's why I can't stand fighting Futo.
She heals herself. Repeatedly. For insane amounts. Even if she's down to a sliver of health.
I guess I should always try to keep my leftmost character at low MP.
But then her plates just keep stacking up and everything goes so fast I can't do anything about it.
Meiling is a lot better than I remember, so thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I'll just grind another 20 levels. Even if I can do it, with her heals, she's just not fun
-
Also, IRUN, that save file you posted a while back with all subclasses and awakenings unlocked from the beginning doesn't seem to be working right for me. It has most of the relay points unlocked, and most of the item lists filled out, with a ton of acheivements unlocked both related and unrelated.It doesn't even have all the characters open, their awakenings are indeed already there, but I only had the starter four.
My bad, pasting this into your save file should unlock all the characters.
-
I'm reading through character overviews for 2 and only halfway through them all but I've noticed many inconsistencies with skill naming between skill lists and the overview/comments as well as a few typos here and there. Can't edit these myself as I don't have a wiki account but maybe someone can proofread them if they have the time. Dunno if this has already been brought to attention.
-
Not sure if that's what you mean, but I did notice that a bunch of skills (particularly those added in the Plus Disk) are named differently in the translation patch than in the wiki. Other than that, there's also Rinnosuke's awakening description that wrongly assumes Murakumo's Former Owner applies to Battle Command.
Mamizou's spellcards also aren't up to date with the japanese wiki.
-
Most information for awakening/plus disk character stuff was based off data leak translation from before the corridor was even added, so there may be inconsistencies. (E.g.:The original translation on Rinnosuke was "all auxiliary skills") Even I'm not likely to comb through all the overviews for things like name inconsistencies, so the best way to fix it would be making your own wiki account. IIRC it has to be approved but when I signed up that only took like, a day or less. Take initiative! :D
-
Ok l now know what enhanced bosses l need to kill the Mirror of Darkness and Magatama of Darkness, and possibly the orbs?
Does anyone have any tips l can use at the bosses l just named (l can't bloody damage the mirror either)
-
For the orbs just try to rush down the leftmost orb as fast as possible, just like in the original fight, once that one is gone, the other 2 orbs have zero offensive presence so its just a matter of taking your time to kill them both at the same time (remember that if the middle orb is the last one standing it revives the other 2 and if the right one is the last it detonates).
For the Magatama just take your best DRK attackers and rush him down, its not really vulnerable to anything but DRK and is resistant to statuses/debuffs too, so there isn't anything else to do but just pumping as much damage as you can. It mostly uses moves like Black Universe and Half Moon Slash so with a bit of luck your frailer attackers can survive a few of his attacks; remember that he gets SPD each turn so the fastest you kill it the better.
The Mirror is probably the hardest of the upgraded bosses, its very resistant to the 4 natural elements, resistant to MYS/SPI/DRK and slightly resistant to PHY. Its not completely immune to debuffs so you can stack those on it with a strong debuffer like Hina, its also very vulnerable to SIL (which both lets your magic attackers deal more damage and makes it deal less damage); it increases its MAG each turn. It depletes your MP 2 times during the fight. For the most part, with debuffs and SIL its not much of a threat offensively unles you let it get too many turns, for damage, you either want to abuse its weaker PHY affinity with Nitori and Yuugi or its lowered MND due to SIL with MYS/SPI/DRK attackers (characters that can pierce affinites like Marisa, Okuu or Patchouli are good choices as are charactes that can pierce its DEF/MND like Eiki and Kaguya).
-
For the orbs just try to rush down the leftmost orb as fast as possible, just like in the original fight, once that one is gone, the other 2 orbs have zero offensive presence so its just a matter of taking your time to kill them both at the same time (remember that if the middle orb is the last one standing it revives the other 2 and if the right one is the last it detonates).
For the Magatama just take your best DRK attackers and rush him down, its not really vulnerable to anything but DRK and is resistant to statuses/debuffs too, so there isn't anything else to do but just pumping as much damage as you can. It mostly uses moves like Black Universe and Half Moon Slash so with a bit of luck your frailer attackers can survive a few of his attacks; remember that he gets SPD each turn so the fastest you kill it the better.
The Mirror is probably the hardest of the upgraded bosses, its very resistant to the 4 natural elements, resistant to MYS/SPI/DRK and slightly resistant to PHY. Its not completely immune to debuffs so you can stack those on it with a strong debuffer like Hina, its also very vulnerable to SIL (which both lets your magic attackers deal more damage and makes it deal less damage); it increases its MAG each turn. It depletes your MP 2 times during the fight. For the most part, with debuffs and SIL its not much of a threat offensively unles you let it get too many turns, for damage, you either want to abuse its weaker PHY affinity with Nitori and Yuugi or its lowered MND due to SIL with MYS/SPI/DRK attackers (characters that can pierce affinites like Marisa, Okuu or Patchouli are good choices as are charactes that can pierce its DEF/MND like Eiki and Kaguya).
Yeah l went with the Strategist Byakuren + Sanae Enchanter + Ran combo on the Mirror just now and managed to beat the Mirror with only Komachi being KO'd due to l couldn't swap to Sanae in time due to the Mirror was gonna go next... l say Byakuren is the real MVP for most of my Enchanced fights. found out l did beat the Orbs long ago... so l only need the Magatama and l can fight the Enhanced Murakumo.
-
I've just taken down the final floor 29 boss and, for now at least, completed all of the content in the game.
I have mixed feelings on the direction things have headed. Plus Disk had an extremely strong start, essentially being a real extension of the main game in difficulty and design, but then it hits this massive ninety degree wall right after the story ends where levels skyrocket all the way up to the moon and things start showing some cracks. In particular I'm not a fan of the following;
-Speed goes off the charts and turns come up in mere ticks
-Defense and Mind become harder to leverage. They still matter, but you need TONS of it to get any real results. Only dedicated stonewalls will feel any serious damage reduction.
-Bosses are far more "cruel." They're set up in such a way that there's a "right" approach to all of them. Their sheer overwhelming damage output, extreme gimmicks, or straight up having a "you lose" condition makes it harder to strategize against them in any way that isn't as one dimensionally shallow as "get good items, get good stats, nuke."
-Numbers get so high that it's harder to parse just how much an attack did at a mere glance. Not impossible by any means and it's something you get used to, but the difference between 1 million and 10 million can be harder to spot in that half second showing of damage.
-Equipment gets so strong with so astronomically high boosts, but are in extremely limited quantity, that it ends up all but impossible to have a balanced team. Generally, you want to build around the characters holding the unique +1000% items and try to get the most out of your super-charged members as possible.
-Awakenings come too late to be particularly game changing; by the time you have them, you're moving into the postgame where they don't have a lot of room to be creatively used anymore, ESPECIALLY the awakenings that include skills to "buff" bad characters (Pathouli, Remilia, Youmu)
In summary, the systems jack up to such incredibly high levels that it starts to buckle under itself in a number of ways. It feels a lot more chaotic and at parts sloppy. I still enjoyed the vast majority of the content and still had fun in the megapostgame parts, but it is quite a far cry from the tight, strategic, and well-balanced way the game carries for 80% of its current runtime. Also, special props to how they handled the grindwall. The game DOES still ask you to do a lot of repetitive fighting... but it could be so, SO much worse.
Now to sit around and wait. Or start over. Depends on how quick 3peso works, I suppose.
-
I personally feel that most of the bosses in late Plus Disk feel much "fairer" than some of the postgame bosses because they have set patterns they generally repeat, so you always know what's coming at you, compare to the Second Sun or The Great C, were you're completely at the mercy of the RNG (the main exception would be
***WINNER***
). And while high damage is certainly necessary against some bosses due to the damage race nature of the fights, that applied to a decent amount of the main/postgame bosses too (Mokou, Memorized Knowledge, the Orbs, the Mirror and Magatama, the deformed bosses). Its true though, that certain status effects aren't as useful as in the main game (SIL, PAR and SHK), but HVY, POI and TRR can still help quite a bit in certain fights.
-
I'm still a ways to finishing everything, but I have similar sentiments about Plus Disk's design falling off in the postgame. Though I feel that it starts happening around the time Murakumo's Blessing is acquired. Murakumo's Blessing has the same issues as the singular items that are ridiculously strong, like Magic Sword Chaos, in that it gives too much strength to be balanced by only having one character be able to use it. This goes even more so for Dragon God's Power. The inherent design of that kind of subclass regrettably needs to be super strong to justify only 1 character being able to use it, but then the bosses also need to be balanced around the usage of these subclasses, and it doesn't seem that they are. Like, of the bosses that I felt were well designed post-Murakumo, so far there's only the story Orochi fight (hampered by the various blessings though, really overpowered), Ryujin-sama, and the
Red Hero & Green Brute
fight, and to a lesser degree Serpent of Chaos (it's only challenging because of Time-Space Warp + Disintegrating Breath shenanigans though). I've yet to fight the 250f Corridor boss, ***WINNER***, Fundoshi Man, or King of Chaos
, but after wiping out the Deformed/Grotesque trio
in three attacks, I'm a little hesitant to assume that they'll be great fights. I've been trying to follow Hard Mode rules for everything (average Brave Level seemed to be roughly 90% of the boss level so I used that, and I followed the character level *1.2 for library levels, eventually going for round 100s around the character level 500 range), so as to try to fight the bosses at what I thought would be closest to the intended party strength, but this has generally led to disappointing results in Plus Disk.
Basically all of the B1-4 optional bosses and everything in the Corridor have been fairly disappointing, with one or two fights being more like one might expect for a normal boss fight than feeling like mid-bosses. All of them were easily defeated with simply overwhelming power, and as the game goes on and better options for equipment become available, this becomes even more true. Recently I don't even bother putting any HP level up bonuses on the left slots because 1x Regalia and 1x Medicine of Life makes a character durable enough to take 3+ hits from most Corridor bosses. And for attacking with Tenshi, I just put Magic Sword Chaos and 2x Scourge because there's no need for defensive equipment. With Dragon God's Power she's 2-shot at worst by the stronger multi-target attacks, because it offers so much affinity. I'm hoping that, by the absolute endgame, the bosses genuinely will be balanced around this level of gear, and they'll be good fights, but the present state of the game doesn't leave me confident about it.
I'm a big fan of having fights be challenging enough to make players adapt to the boss instead of using whatever strategy they want, so being able to blow over everything through overwhelming power has been a little disappointing. Still, I understand that with the incredibly huge amount of possible character combinations and strategies, the bosses need to be balanced in a way that everyone can reasonably defeat them, so for a player that tries to utilize every possible advantage available, it is inevitable that dissatisfaction should be encountered, since the game isn't supposed to be played like that. But there were still great challenges like the Guardian of the Crystals, which I'd like to see more of.
Regardless of criticisms, the game is fun though, I'd just like to see more of a challenge from it like the earlier sections of the game had. I think, because there were less options available earlier in the game, it was easier to balance around them, but as more options become available, from characters to skills to subclasses to equipment, it becomes harder and harder to balance, leading to this problem I have, and various other additional problems. Plus the balance of SPD, player DEF/MND and enemy ATK/MAG, and other imbalances as a result of the levels getting too high. It's difficult since this is a consequence of things that 3peso wanted to do with the game, and it would be hard to scale levels back down, or alter how stats function.
Although, I have to say, Why the heck do the Deformed/Grotesque trio have ~33 affinities to at least one element each for Dragon God's Breath, lol
-
Yeah, a lot of the Shadow bosses die too fast, and the Abyss bosses are a joke.
I personally have always felt that features like the library and gems reduce your options, since otherwise you could easily switch to the optimal characters for every boss fight (which I feel would be a bit easier to balance), and at the same time you can still challenge yourself by trying to clear them with a suboptimal/favorite party (though, of course, the results may be that some fights end up being literally impossible without X character)
-
I've always been reluctant to use gems for just that reason. As soon as you start seriously investing in a character, it's harder and harder to justify putting them away. Thankfully, tomes of reincarnation exist to make even gems a non-permanent investment, but even those being limited in quantity can be discouraging.
Also, a big difference to me between maingame "damage race" bosses and megapostgame (as opposed to standard postgame, which is where bosses like Great C sit. I have little to say about them because I kind of blew them away overleveled, I don't really know how they play out at challenge level) is that main game "rushdown" bosses tend to have lacking areas in many, many ways. Mokou can be pretty effectively defanged and most characters can keep up with her regen. Black Goddess basically has no real defense for itself so you're free to take as much time as you need for setup. Mirror/Magatama are the closest it gets to be forced, but there's still plenty of characters that can pull through with the right setup and strategies. Megapostgame bosses, meanwhile, take much of that AND put it on some intensely deadly opponents, meaning it's much, much harder to do "setup" and so it's much less feasible to spend several turns rotating a bunch of characters around to prep, you basically want 1-3 major nukers to start immediately, receiving whatever support they can get in the form of offense buffs/boost skills, going ham as fast as possible to end the fight before too many characters, ESPECIALLY theirselves, succumb to immensely damaging moves flying out at mach 2. The few fights that can be stalled on usually can't be for very long, so every turn not melting HP is another turn the boss stacks up its EX boosts or another turn before the full heal/party wipe.
I'm sure it's POSSIBLE to win all these fights as practically any combination of party members, but the point is I don't think the actual strategy will differ too much depending on who is in said team. You're always going to have those couple "star players" rolling out massive amounts of damage, much more than the other 10-8 on the team can do, as well as a few supports that can take a hit and whatever auxilery skills you can manage to help the heavy hitters hit heavier, and the supporters support more efficiently. Anyone without some uber defensive equipment isn't survivng more than two rounds, if even that, and anyone not carrying the uber offense equipments are going to be dealing paper cuts compared to the potential of your "carry," and those just won't be able to cut it when a time limit's ticking, or if the boss grows more and more powerful over time.
It is worth noting amidst all the negativity that it's not ALL bad. I actually think ***WINNER*** may be the best boss of the entire bunch, because he's generally tame on the damage input and his rapidly shifting modes can be reasonably countered with a well thought out team. It's more the triple deformed bosses, King, and Dragon God
in particular heavily enforcing the "my way or die" playstyle, and while the other 2 floor 29 bosses can feel like they're asking you to damage race them, I can imagine them being doable on a more defensive, slow playstyle so long as the final phase of both has SOME form of burst to take them out before it gets bad.
-
Personally, I'm pretty okay with how the Plus Disk ended up for me, but then again, I don't think I've played this game nearly as much as others have for me to deserve to have an opinion like this, lol
Not to mention how I suck on game design, despite wanting to be a game developer :blush: IOW, I'm still not 100% certain how some things work in this game.
But yeah. Bosses like Futo were a challenge, at least. For me, that also applies to a few of the shadow bosses. That said, I'm pretty sure most people, if not everyone, went to the Plus Disk content after they beat the original game's post game bosses. But, you can access the Plus Disk content before you do the original game's post game. Have you tried playing it that way? This might make things more interesting.
And I like that the game is flexible like that when it comes to parties. LonelyGaruga's party is a great example of this, and I want to say I'm proud of you for this (and your quest to help 3peso balance the game). I wonder if I can turn Yukari into a DPS character, without the help of Chen, and possibly Ran. I wonder the same for the person they call Maribel. I mean, she is a pretty okay DPS character, but AFAIK, there are better choices.
BTW, of all the things I could notice. Has anybody else noticed that the selection circle's animation when selecting a character (like for example on Form Change) is less smooth on 1.104?
-
Yukari is a pretty excellent DPS character, although she's mostly limited to WND without having Ran/Chen to power up Shikigami. Hyperactive Flying Object is pretty much the strongest magical WND attack in the game when you factor in Row Attack Enhancement and it has the added bonus of piercing enemy MND really well. Shikigami with Ran and Chen out is really good though.
-
And Skikigami + gets buffed when Yukari is awakened as well. She?s actually decent as a DPS tank now.
-
Indeed. Though this late in the game, I've already built her as a strategist, and adjusted my party according to that. I'd still rather not waste a party slot with Chen though. Shikigami: Ran Yakumo+ should still be strong enough without her though, right?
-
And I like that the game is flexible like that when it comes to parties. LonelyGaruga's party is a great example of this, and I want to say I'm proud of you for this (and your quest to help 3peso balance the game).
Aha, thanks. Tenshi's design as a character rather lends her better as an attacking character than a defending character imo. Even with just Girl of Bhava-agra prior to Awakening, her spell cards just have really good formulas, and the high ATK makes her compatible with subclass spell cards. Next to Suwako's Long-Arm and Long-Leg, World Creation Press is the strongest NTR spell card in terms of formula, and it has a low MP cost and good delay. Plus Iku for the best ST offensive buff in the game for some splendid supporting ability and tanking ability that exceeds Tenshi's thanks to Hisouten Guard. The two of them together just make Tenshi a really good attacker in practice, I couldn't really envision playing them differently.
The game really does have a lot of flexibility in other areas too, So far the most unique thing I feel has been useful is using Elementalist Aya to deal with Ryujin-sama's blue phase
where it spams a MT WND attack. Between her natural -30% WND skill, Elementalist's -24% effect for a memorized element, and a Strategist's -10% damage reduction, that's 47% of the original damage.
I feel by building around a very specific purpose, like using a character (or group of characters), working under these kinds of restrictions lets you develop and use strategies that you otherwise wouldn't use. There's enough freedom for creative play in the game that this is something that can be done effectively. I've been considering trying out other characters, but Tenshi is just my favorite, I think I'll stick with her.
EDIT: Oh wow, Abyss bosses really shut me up. Abyss Mokou uses Resurrection three times, each time she uses Fujiyama Volcano and does roughly 800-900K with 500 FIR affinity. She's easily one-shotted though, only 45m HP (Abyss Kaguya had 60m HP, and she was the weakest Abyss boss yet in terms of HP for her level), so the gimmick of the fight is to be able to withstand each Fujiyama Volcano and ideally heal up for the next one before she gets a move, do that and the fight is over before she can take more than 4 actions.
I'm really impressed by this one, this is exactly what I would want from the Abyss bosses.
-
Did some random tests:
-Chen's HP vs Komachi's HP (adjusted library and levels, both have 20 HP gems and mega boost).
[attach=1]
-Shinigami's Scythe, tested how much damage it adds (Komachi has 20 ATK and MAG gems, ATK mega boost and MAG boost 2).
Komachi's stats
[attach=2]
Left is without Shinigami's Scythe, right is with it
[attach=3]
-
Those HP values are surprisingly close... tweaking sure is powerful. Well, and her blazing level speed. Chen still suffers from endgame's crazy speed, though. But even then, Phoenix Spread Wings is a pretty potent FIR attack with Warrior Row Enhance, and Instant Attack will still give her a turn in 0 ticks instead of 2 after swap-in, which is a still significant. Momiji or Mystia are much superior if you aren't running Yakumo team, though...
As expected, Shinigami's Scythe is mostly just a boost for Avici, which is actually a pretty solid all-target attack for randoms after the awakening. It's nice to see the damage boost isn't totally ineffectual on the other skills, but... yeah, it's not a lot.
-
Yeah, gem tweaking was another pitfall I noticed. They close the gap between many characters and downplay strengths and weaknesses. Again, those strengths and weaknesses are still THERE (Komachi's lead on HP in the comparison is still a significant deal!) but she's less "Komachi" late as she is earlier in the game. Later on, pretty much everyone could, and honestly SHOULD, be "Komachi" with incredibly high HP backed by boosted affinities, Komachi will of course have more HP than all others... but not to quite the degree she's had before, and she loses value as a tank for it. Speed's much the same way, but the four "formula" stats suffer a bit less. It's mostly equipment that shake those up in a bad way, though gems still DO close the gaps and shake up character-to-character balance somewhat.
-
Yeah, the First-Aid Kit, stat Gems, and library levels have a large effect on Chen's HP due to her leveling rate being one of the fastest in the game, and less so on Komachi due to her lower leveling rate. Results like that for Patchouli, Suwako, or Kaguya wouldn't happen due to their low leveling rates.
But yeah, as far as the value of a tank goes, the difference in stats and tanking ability is negligible enough that I'd just grab a character with passive damage increasing skills or buffing spells. They can be geared up to sufficiently do the job, although if you want to run a party that suffers no casualties against any boss, some measures need to be taken for the occasional super power attack targeting the leftmost slot, like Scourge or Last Judgement. I think Komachi has a lot of potential as an attacker though, with the highest HP in the game, 10% Regeneration per turn, and a reasonably base to expand on her offensive potential as a composite attacker. With some adjustments to her offensive stats, spell card formulas, and maybe Shinigami's Scythe, she could be pretty interesting as an attacker.
-
Funnily enough, if you build a MAG focused Komachi (20 gems on ATK and MAG, MAG mega boost and ATK boost 2) with all her level up bonuses spent on MAG instead of ATK , Avici deals even more damage (about 9m without Scythe and up to 15m with Scythe). Just goes to show how crazy that 400% multiplier is (I tried it with awakened Satori and she dealt 100m damage, while this is lower than Akyuu/Keine/Patchouli, she doesn't need to charge/build up stacks beforehand and has Proof of Kinship).
On a somewhat different note, I noticed that the Earth Spirit Palace Party skill has a bug related to Proof of Kinship: when any of the members learn Proof of Kinship, the bonus they get from other members in the front increases one level (so instead of increasing 2 levels for each member it increases 3 levels). This means that Satori, Rin and Okuu (rip Koishi) can get up to a lv9 boost from the skill (which is a 72% stat boost instead of the regular 48%).
EDIT: Kaguya, Suwako, Patchouli and Meiling's HP (who is the only character who has both a high HP growth and a high leveling rate), Patchi's would be the worst by a slight margin without the boost from her awakening:
[attach=1]
-
Suwako that can reliably take one hit sounds like a pretty amazing blaster with her various passives (full heal on swap, several big damage boosts) and her massive awakening boosts.
Although yeah, I imagine most endgame durability comes from stuff like big damage reductions (meiling, futo, anyone with Fighting Spirit, or resurrection-type skills ala Youmu/Mokou/Akyuu, maintennances like Nitori/Renko/Miko) rather than raw base stats. I'm planning on picking all my offensive-focused characters from that list, apart from maybe a really high potential cannon like Dragon God Flan, or Suwako.
-
I read a lot about TL2 PD's problems, and while I agree with many of the points raised, I have a... slightly different perspective on them.
First of all, the stats "degeneration". As somebody who defeated WINNER 255 times in TL1, I honestly saw it coming a long while ago. I mean, if you are complaining about "fast ticking ATB" and "unreadably big damage numbers", check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixgowABy9Ks
Perhaps, the major difference between the two postgames is that, while in both cases the "degeneration" begins to kick in at around lvl 1000, getting to that level in TL1 took much longer than in TL2, and most people probably stopped after they defeated WINNER the first time at around lvl 600 - while in TL2 we can easily get to over lvl 1000 before the 100 hour game mark (if you can do the same in TL1 without a New Game+, I'm tipping my hat to you).
As for the lack of strategy, well... that's a problem with TL2 as a whole. It's definitely not just the postgame. Sure, some bosses were harder than others, but ultimately, the number of bosses in TL2 which required a complex strategy is incredibly small - most of them are just about smashing through with the right element, often with piercing attacks. While TL2 has a lot more complexity when it comes to team choices, TL1's fights were much more technical. Heck, everytime I compare a TL2 fight with its "equivalent" in TL1, I sorta feel underwhelmed. TL1 Alice vs TL2 Alice, TL1 Yukari vs TL2 Yukari, TL1 Yuyuko vs TL2 Yuyuko, and so on. Even when the fight almost plays the same (like in Yuyuko's case), the overall lack of power and "tricks" in TL1 meant you needed to play much more carefully and be more opportunistic with your damage dealers. Not to mention that most of TL1's "climatic" fights - Alice, Eientei, Yukari, and especially Rinnosuke - were far more complicated to navigate through than nearly any TL2 fight I could think of.
Overall, I do like TL2. And I'm sure that, when **WINNER** farming
will be a thing in TL2 as well, I'll definitely see it through like I did with TL1. But I don't expect it to be anywhere as "fulfilling" to be honest. TL2 chars are just too strong - they are bulkier, they got more tricks, they do far more damage for their levels - compared to TL1. In short, my blunt suggestion for those who actually want to play complicated and strategic fights... would be to drop TL2 altogether and go back to TL1 :-)
-
Ugh... 116 sub equipment items what a pain just to fight another postgame boss... and I can't seem to get ancient fragments to drop.
-
That one's pretty easy to bypass if you just do a little of the Plus Disk content. You shouldn't need to craft anything regardless, though; if you beat a couple of the other non-plus postgame bosses you'll hit 116 items.
I'm about to finish b4f... it finally feels like my party's equipped well enough to kinda handle things now. And Nitori is now decked out enough to once again be Wrecking. Welp.
-
That one's pretty easy to bypass if you just do a little of the Plus Disk content. You shouldn't need to craft anything regardless, though; if you beat a couple of the other non-plus postgame bosses you'll hit 116 items.
I'm about to finish b4f... it finally feels like my party's equipped well enough to kinda handle things now. And Nitori is now decked out enough to once again be Wrecking. Welp.
LOL funny thing... l just got the 116th sub equipment due to... l forgot about the Hell Slurping Worm on Floor 16 and also bagged the get data on 12 FOE achievement out of the deal too.
Edit: Holy mother of fuckertry... the Desire-Eating Demon almost made me gameover... l had to play Russian roulette and pray that it didn't try to kill Suika thankfully she was fully boosted along with a few damage dealers that got nom'd. l only had Renko, Sanae, and Suika left when the fight was over... my god l'll never underestimate the bosses of post game ever again, l think that boss made me shit my pants more than the Great C.
-
Overall, I do like TL2. And I'm sure that, when **WINNER** farming
will be a thing in TL2 as well, I'll definitely see it through like I did with TL1. But I don't expect it to be anywhere as "fulfilling" to be honest. TL2 chars are just too strong - they are bulkier, they got more tricks, they do far more damage for their levels - compared to TL1. In short, my blunt suggestion for those who actually want to play complicated and strategic fights... would be to drop TL2 altogether and go back to TL1 :-)
This is basically how I feel honestly. There's so much varaiation and so many gimmicks in TL2 that boss design had to be able to account for that but in the process the bosses either got simpler or got super ridiculously tough with the wrong team. TL1 still had a viability for basically anyone in the game to be used well without being abused and smart play is rewarded but not entirely necessary. TL1s fights are just so much more interesting to play, and most of the strategy is in how you execute the fight rather than how you set up your team.
I think if the variance in character choice wasn't from good to broken and instead was from okay to great like TL1 then it'd be much more fulfilling, there wouldn't be as much pressure to be 100% optimised at all times (the extreme customization rewards people who want to keep pushing new teams and new builds but for first playthroughs its extremely intimidating having so much going on), and the balance could account for a much more even playing field.
Also i haven't played through PD but yeah inflated stats are to be expected especially after TL1 lol.
-
Holy crap I see why the Futo fight is totally stupid. "Maximum Dish Charge" is the dumbest move ever because then Futo can just heal half her hp and max her buffs on the next turn, at which point if you don't kill her in five seconds the fight is practically over. There's nothing you can do but Kill Her Faster. If you're really lucky you can clear off some of the cups, but since you have to do damage your tanks can't really help, and she very often will use Divine Spirit Mausoleum on the very next turn, so you don't have the time.
I won by, well, Killing Her Faster. :T She's weak to Super Scope and Nitori is broken. I maxed overdrive and got Nitori to almost one-shot her. It still took numerous attempts to pull off the finisher without her using Divine Spirit Mausoleum first. Theoretically I could kill her even after that using another super scope but it never worked out that way.
edit:It appears Futo's passive with Miko has changed? Or perhaps they just fixed a typo and it has the same effect?
(http://puu.sh/Axuyt.png)
-
Yeah, that would be where buff removal, Eyes that Perceive Reality, and other such things are handy to have, for if you can't successfully decrease her Plate counter to ~5 or so before she uses Divine Spirit Mausoleum. Or you could just annihilate her with PHY attacks like you did.
Looks like the effect was reworded, it was incorrectly worded before. Original effect was "前衛に神子がいる場合のみ、八十平瓮カウントの増加速度が2倍になる。". There, it says the count doubles, but in the new description, it says it increases by 1. Futo's spell cards increase the plate count by 2, and would be increased to 3 with that skill, so the original description was incorrect.
-
The problem is, even if I manage to clear off critical buffs or ignore them, she still restored a massive amount of health. And from what I could tell in failed attempts, if you get her HP low again she just does it again.
Because, you know, having a boss that heals at least half her max HP and maxes out her buffs every time she goes below 50% health is a good idea.
Anyway, infinite corridor seems fun. <3 Soon I'll have to struggle with the conundrum of who to awaken first, though... AUGH. Especially considering there's plenty of people I'm considering swapping into the team on awakening like Youmu or Keine. D: At least some people are non-options purely because they can't afford their awakening skills yet.
-
Yeah, as far as I can tell it's 5% recovery for each Plate, and she can randomly (or maybe it's not random) use it again afterwards. I agree that that's probably the hardest part, Futo has really high HP recovery and it's a little difficult to manage MP through the whole fight.
If it helps any, not a single boss afterwards is as tough as Futo. Although that might be disappointing instead, haha.
EDIT: Hmmm, it seems Tenshi's Keystones of Spirit counter is bugged and increases on resisted elements in addition to weakness elements. Feels a bit weird to have not noticed it until just now.
-
I read a lot about TL2 PD's problems, and while I agree with many of the points raised, I have a... slightly different perspective on them.
First of all, the stats "degeneration". As somebody who defeated WINNER 255 times in TL1, I honestly saw it coming a long while ago. I mean, if you are complaining about "fast ticking ATB" and "unreadably big damage numbers", check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixgowABy9Ks
Perhaps, the major difference between the two postgames is that, while in both cases the "degeneration" begins to kick in at around lvl 1000, getting to that level in TL1 took much longer than in TL2, and most people probably stopped after they defeated WINNER the first time at around lvl 600 - while in TL2 we can easily get to over lvl 1000 before the 100 hour game mark (if you can do the same in TL1 without a New Game+, I'm tipping my hat to you).
As for the lack of strategy, well... that's a problem with TL2 as a whole. It's definitely not just the postgame. Sure, some bosses were harder than others, but ultimately, the number of bosses in TL2 which required a complex strategy is incredibly small - most of them are just about smashing through with the right element, often with piercing attacks. While TL2 has a lot more complexity when it comes to team choices, TL1's fights were much more technical. Heck, everytime I compare a TL2 fight with its "equivalent" in TL1, I sorta feel underwhelmed. TL1 Alice vs TL2 Alice, TL1 Yukari vs TL2 Yukari, TL1 Yuyuko vs TL2 Yuyuko, and so on. Even when the fight almost plays the same (like in Yuyuko's case), the overall lack of power and "tricks" in TL1 meant you needed to play much more carefully and be more opportunistic with your damage dealers. Not to mention that most of TL1's "climatic" fights - Alice, Eientei, Yukari, and especially Rinnosuke - were far more complicated to navigate through than nearly any TL2 fight I could think of.
Overall, I do like TL2. And I'm sure that, when **WINNER** farming
will be a thing in TL2 as well, I'll definitely see it through like I did with TL1. But I don't expect it to be anywhere as "fulfilling" to be honest. TL2 chars are just too strong - they are bulkier, they got more tricks, they do far more damage for their levels - compared to TL1. In short, my blunt suggestion for those who actually want to play complicated and strategic fights... would be to drop TL2 altogether and go back to TL1 :-)
I was one of those ones that beat WINNER once and felt that was enough for me. I don't really have much in the way of argument for that, because I DO remember Labyrinth 1 having more complex fights, but the memory's not only a little foggy, but I remember some of them being hard for the wrong reasons. For example, Eientei trio were a fight you wanted to finish off roughly at the same time, but since you couldn't see health bars and basically had to just guess/wiki-reference in order to tell when one of the two big ones were close, it felt a bit less strategic and more like cruel trial and error (Hibachi 1 and 2 were especially bad for this, as I remember, since one dying put the other in berserk AND did wacky stuff with its remaining health). In fact, being unable to see affinity alignment and enemy health in general put an awful lot of guesswork into the game if you weren't already extremely familar with every foe, but that said, Alice, Yukari, and ESPECIALLY Rinnosuke were definitely some more interesting and dynamic fights than the vast majority of 2's content. It's just a shame it was all held back by having a lot of information you'd build a strategy on, being more or less invisible to you.
In a way, I guess that makes TL1 more hardcore and I certainly DO remember it being a lot harder... but it's also hard for me to tell if that's just because it was my first game like its type and I had a harder time adjusting to it. I almost want to go back and replay it now just to check, but I think 2's QoL changes being gone would drive me nuts.
-
Beat 250f Corridor boss,
The "Underworld Great Hammer 'Grond'" that the Dark Lord uses after Concentrate did 2.2m damage to Tenshi with 500 PHY affinity, her -30% PHY skill, and -10% damage from Strategist. The best I can do with Iku at 500 PHY is 1.9m HP, the only character in my party composition that can be geared to withstand it is Miko. It isn't locked to the leftmost slot either. and the Dark Lord has a high debuff resistance, unlike the Serpent of Chaos which was easy to debuff. I didn't try tanking it with DEF to see if Grond has a low attack and high damage multiplier, but I don't think it does, and for all I know it ignores DEF anyway, same spell animation as Rasetsu Fist. The boss itself goes down very quickly, but stalling with Akyuu revivals to see what it did revealed a diverse range of moves, including a rather unique FIR/DRK MT attack named Hell Flare. Pity it doesn't get to properly show off.
All that's left is round 2 with ***WINNER***, and King of Chaos
now.
-
Beat 250f Corridor boss, The "Underworld Great Hammer 'Grond'" that the Dark Lord uses after Concentrate did 2.2m damage to Tenshi with 500 PHY affinity, her -30% PHY skill, and -10% damage from Strategist. The best I can do with Iku at 500 PHY is 1.9m HP, the only character in my party composition that can be geared to withstand it is Miko. It isn't locked to the leftmost slot either. and the Dark Lord has a high debuff resistance, unlike the Serpent of Chaos which was easy to debuff. I didn't try tanking it with DEF to see if Grond has a low attack and high damage multiplier, but I don't think it does, and for all I know it ignores DEF anyway, same spell animation as Rasetsu Fist. The boss itself goes down very quickly, but stalling with Akyuu revivals to see what it did revealed a diverse range of moves, including a rather unique FIR/DRK MT attack named Hell Flare. Pity it doesn't get to properly show off.
All that's left is round 2 with ***WINNER***, and King of Chaos
now.
I remember it has a pretty interesting move that halves your team's HP and MP and also absorbs yours buffs, it could have been one of the few fights were the Oracle subclass might have been somewhat useful (given that its basically completely immune to debuffs and you don't want to deal with his buffed AoE nukes), assuming you don't have Tenshi or Miko in your team anyway. But it just goes down too fast for it to even become a fight.
-
Not sure if it's a bug but Precise Diagnosis and Hourai Elixir don't seem to fully heal Byakuren when she has her awakening skill.
-
Not sure if it's a bug but Precise Diagnosis and Hourai Elixir don't seem to fully heal Byakuren when she has her awakening skill.
Yeah, its bugged and doesn't work with % based heals.
-
Now that I'm exploring Infinity Corridor, I suppose I should ask the people who've explored most/all of it; how often should I be paying for items or just breaking them out for free? Is keeping amulets for Remnants generally more useful on one-! items? I'm assuming I should be trying to get all treasures in general for the infinity gem bonus. (edit:Maybe not, floors are getting bigger and you get gems from chests...) Since I have Renko -and- Rumia the encounter rate is pretty easygoing, I have to actively hit M.
Although, since there's an unlimited number of floors, if I spawn real close to the stairs I guess it's better to just descend right away, huh?
-
Basically, what some people did (AFAIK), is that they stayed on earlier floors of the infinity corridor to grind out items like Power Dragon Scalemails, Medicines of Life (I found a lot of those for some reason), and Iron Man's Headbands, when it was the only thing needed to craft a lot of the OP equipment. You can progress on the infinity corridor if you want, but if enemies are becoming strong enough to the point where you can't deal with them in a few seconds, that's probably a good time to stay there and continue later when you're more prepared. Besides, those enemies don't give nearly as much experience and money as the enemies in the tree dungeon.
That's what I would recommend, if anybody has any other, better suggestions for Serela, do feel free to correct me.
-
My personal experience with chests is: 1 and 2 ! chests generally give easily obtained, but still useful things (gems, tomes, 1-5 infinity gems, exp/drop/money increasing items) along with the occasional garbage equipment/material, I generally open them since its cheap. 3 ! chests mostly give useless equipment, 10-15 infiniy gems or materials, I generally find them not worth it. 4 and 5 ! chests are an absolute gamble, you get some decent (but still generally outdated) equipment, rarer materials or 15-20 infinity gems, but if youre very lucky you get the truly rare equipment (Tokugawa Statue, MGL) or material (Iron Man's Bandana), I mostly only open them with keys/break them.
The bonus infinity gem is generally not worth it, since you can just buy them relatively cheap in the rest area shop. I personally think you can take 2 approaches when it comes to exploring floors: trying to find/open all the chests you can, and just going straight to the exit; the first one is high risk high reward since you won't have dust to spend on the shop due to wandering around/chests, but there's the chance you find someting really good in those chests, while the second one is low risk low reward, you get plenty of dust and you can use it to buy stat jewels and infinity gems to spend in Akyuu's shop (its generally rare to be able to gather enough to buy anything more expensive than those), but you miss out on a decent amount of chests along the way.
Finally, if your aim is just to obtain good equipment/infinity gems/materials, as Xarizzar said, you just exit and reenter the same floor over and over again to farm them.
-
Getting boatloads of gems and buying Flower Blade Kikuryusei seems kind of amazing. @.@ It's good enough I don't have to worry that the gem investment is a total waste later, although I'll stop myself from buying -too- many because I know the top-grade equipment still outranks it... in a party of 12 I can imagine I'll be using several for a long, long time.
Opening chests seems to give enough gems to be worthwhile compared to trying to buy them in the shop, but I've only done 10 floors so far.
edit:Got a scourge from a free "!!"... nitori officially has triple the atk of anyone else. Not that I can beat lv300 abyssal marisa anyway BUUUT. (I guess I better do some dungeon now)
-
Mora infinity gems is never a bad thing, given that you can always invest them in buying awakening items later; at 12 gem per item, that's 600 for 1 character, even considering the fact that they're not as useful on non-damage dealers its still a good sink you can spend them in.
-
Flower Blade Kikuryusei and Long Sword "Gurenjihime" (idk if this is how the EN patch translates it or not) are really good sub items for most of the rest of the game tbh, they won't be outclassed until you start getting a lot of Iron Man's Headband-type equipment. Another thing to look out for is Adamantite and Orichalcum, which are the materials needed for a lot of things, including Regalia. They don't drop from mobs until 29f, and they cost 20 Infinity Gems for 1 of either. You need 3 of each to make a Regalia, plus a couple other sub items as materials. Best as I can tell, the item rates change whenever you load the game, so you should find some items more easily than others. This appears consistent with varying reports of the ease of acquisition for the Iron Man's Headband items, as I found Tupsimati the most (I currently have like 13) and Medicine of Life the least (5), while others have very different findings.
Personally, I farmed Corridor 1f for items until I maxed out all the tier 2 stat gems on my characters, which took about 55-60 hours. It was much more rewarding than farming Murakumo for the tier 1 stat gems since you get tons of other equipment along the way, and easier to do since you can buy them with Infinity Gems too. I farmed fights when necessary to always be able to open chests, so leaving the enemies at their weakest made it easier to do that. The rewards for fighting enemies remains fairly low throughout the entire Corridor, so not much point in going out of your way to fight them. As of the current update, I've still only seen 90 different enemies in the Corridor (there were several unused ones in the 1.103 files, I haven't checked 1.104's files yet), and it seems that there's still only a random batch of them selected with each load. That's something I observed when originally farming the Corridor for EXP, I'd spend several hours continuously farming, then the next day I would encounter enemies I never encountered on the previous day.
OH YEAH, there's a cap on Infinity Gems at 200, so don't hoard them.
-
Wow l lucked out on the Hina and Parsee shadow fight and didn't get wombo combo'd at all and didn't get TRR'd once at all (probably due to my equips and Parsee didn't use her other attack to proc TRR on my girls)... Hina was a bit of a nuisance though she kept avoiding my SPR nukers quite a few times l might have to step it up though and prepare for the worse.
-
OH YEAH, there's a cap on Infinity Gems at 200, so don't hoard them.
I noticed a few items can indeed go over 200 as of the latest patch (1.104). I dunno if this is the case with Infinity Gems too, but it might be worth testing.
-
Checked, it's still capped at 200.
Unrelated, beat King of Chaos
, that's everything now. Going to try looking into the game files and see if there's anything interesting already in there, then it's back to waiting for the next update.
EDIT: Hm, I get an error trying to look into the updated BGM and img files.
-
The latest patch uses dxlib ver6. (biggest change: 64bit). If you were using the official tool you should just be able to download the latest. Otherwise I can extract them for you.
img is already on the translation topic, though. I think I removed the spell graphics and that was it.
-
Ah, thanks. Looks like there's absolutely nothing added that was unused, so that just leaves the
Heaven Touhou bosses and some Corridor enemies
from 1.103 still unused. There were over a dozen unused BGMs in the previous update, and 1.104 only uses one of them, so I'm not going to bother looking into whatever might be changed for BGM.
Was kinda expecting to at least find a single unused enemy graphic, ah well.
-
Just fought Futo and my god it fuels my hate for self hp regen bosses more than ever in RPGs... thankfully a boosted Nitori, Remilia, and Yuugi were just enough to shut her down because l was half way about to scream when she fully almost healed herself from Yuugi's damage to her... l just want to go to bed now. :qq:
-
Does anybody have any tips for
Fundoshi Man's wind form? He only uses multi targeting attacks and is too fast, so Gamblers are a definite no-no, even with Eirin's HP Limit Break healing, so I lack the DPS to beat him, especially since I can't use my Holy Blessing Patchouli, since he's so resistant to magic...
-
I one-shot it with Tenshi's World Creation Press backed by Murakumo's Blessing for 99m damage, I'd imagine most powerful NTR attackers that target DEF can accomplish similar results. Could also use Dragon God's Power on anyone that's suitable for it.
-
Well, I am using fully buffed Warriors (because Gamblers aren't a great choice, apparently) Yuugi and Suika, but I can't keep them out for long, and they don't deal enough damage, unfortunately. And I think fully buffed Flandre (my Dragon God's Power user) dealt even less damage. Hmm. Weird.
-
Hm, sounds like there's two options there, either adjust your attackers so they can do more damage, or adjust them so they can take more damage. For non-Row attacks, Transcendent offers more a little more damage and is better for taking hits as well (more HP and -10% damage reduction), so regardless of your choice, that may help. Far as damage dealing goes, if you're able to get a 2-3 shot, then that should be fine at least. For survival, I think all you really need is a Regalia and high library levels for affinity. I did the fight at 1000/100 for library and average character level of 918. The opening attack missed on Tenshi, and she had 1-hit invincibility on anyway, but I think it would've done like 50% of her HP judging for the characters it did hit, and she did not have any kind of defensive investment whatsoever in terms of equipment (gear was Magic Sword Chaos + 2x Scourge w/ Tokugawa Statue). Tenshi had 332 WND affinity and 453K HP, for reference. If you need to survive at least two attacks, exceeding that might be necessary. The opening attack uses MAG, formula is ((66% MAG - 12% DEF - 12% MND) * 1.2), so if you debuff its MAG, that can help withstand it too. I don't know what attacks follow it though, but most MAG debuffing attacks also debuff ATK anyway.
None of this is very specific though. If it's insufficient, maybe posting your character stats can help, like what you're working with, what kind of damage you're doing and taking, that kind of thing.
-
Hmm... I suppose I can post my stats soon?. How do you know the damage formula of that attack?
-
There's a link in the OP to a text file that has all of the spell card info in the base game (everything prior to Plus Disk), link for enemy spell cards specifically is https://www.dropbox.com/s/fv8pi1hepbkh3v9/Spellcards_Enemy.txt?dl=0. There isn't any information for attacks introduced in Plus Disk though.
-
1.104a was released. Haven't looked at the patch notes fully but there seems to be a decent amount of changes. Will look into it shortly.
-
東方の迷宮２ プラスディスク ver1.104aを公開。
・にとりの工房での装備作成について、一部装備品の作成に必要な素材数を修正
・メイン装備「ジューダスペイン」のMP回復値上昇効果が機能していない不具合を修正
・一部装備品の性能が説明文と異なっている不具合を修正
・一部サブ装備の性能を上方修正
・一部スキルの説明文を修正
・一部蘇生系スキルについて、最大HP減少攻撃での戦闘不能から蘇生する際にHPが異常な値になる場合がある不具合を修正
・第九階層追加構造に立ち入れないエリアがある＆取得できない宝箱がある不具合を修正
・スキル「即応速攻」の効果発動時、TPを１消費するように修正
・スキル「静寂の中の歌声」による「静寂の中の歌声」バフの全能力上昇効果を大幅に強化
・スキル「エクストラアタック」について、サブスペル使用時のみエクストラアタック効果発動率が2/3に＋再行動時、行動がMPを消費するものだった場合は消費MPが０ではなく1/2になるように修正
・スキル「魔法カウンター」、覚醒スキル「魔法カウンター＋」によって発動する反撃の威力を上方修正
・スキル「隊列の要石」の効果量を減少させ、上昇する能力を「防御＋精神」から「全能力」に変更
・スキル「月を読む程度の能力」を取得しても効果が発揮されず、代わりにスキル「星を読む程度の能力」の効果が発揮されていた不具合を修正
・スキル「変幻自在の感情移入」効果によって付与される「感情の面」系統バフによる、敵味方全員への特定能力上昇＋低下効果がやや大きくなるよう修正
・スキル「感情を操る程度の能力」によって発動する味方側能力上昇と敵側能力低下の効果量及び付与確率がより大きくなるよう修正
・スキル「御阿礼の子の力」の効果発動率を（ SLv*9 ）％に、発動時消費TPを15に下方修正
・スキル「超詠唱」の効果量を下方修正
・サブスキル「鉄壁の計」が正常に働いていない不具合を修正
・「〇〇の加護」系サブスキルの効果が発揮されていない不具合を修正
・覚醒スキル「八卦炉チャージモード」の効果が後衛待機時に発動しない不具合を修正
・覚醒スキル「暗闇に潜む妖怪」に魔力基礎値上昇効果を追加
・覚醒スキル「アベンジ・ザ・おてんば娘」に追加効果を設定、敏捷低下状態の敵に攻撃を仕掛ける際に与ダメージ上昇
・覚醒スキル「式神重加速攻撃」の効果を変更
・覚醒スキル「目にも留まらない化猫」に攻撃＋敏捷基礎値上昇効果を追加
・覚醒スキル「もう歌しか聞こえない」のバフｶｳﾝﾄ増加効果を６から４に修正
・覚醒スキル「喘息のおくすり」の最大レベルを２から３に修正
・覚醒スキル「玄雲海の雷庭」の効果発動時、敏捷が上昇していなかった不具合を修正
・覚醒スキル「ツボカビ耐性」にHP基本値上昇効果を追加
・覚醒スキル「白玉楼の主の本気」に追加効果を設定、一定以上の即死耐性を持つ敵に対して与ダメージ上昇
・覚醒スキル「白黒はっきりつける程度の能力」の効果が発揮されている状態で敵が「逃走」を行うとゲームが強制終了する不具合を修正
・スペル『スーパースコープ3D』の威力を微減少
・スペル『風神一扇』の威力上昇
・スペル『天孫降臨の道しるべ』の効果を「対象の行動値をSpellLv*10000に変更」から「対象の行動値を5000 + SpellLv*5000に変更」に修正
・スペル『積怨返し』の恐怖効果量を9000から14400に修正
・スペル『華やかなる仁者への嫉妬』の「敵が受けている恐怖効果量に比例して与ダメージが上昇する」特殊効果が正常に働いていない不具合を修正
・スペル『瓦斯織物の玉』の行動後遅延を5000から6600に修正
・スペル『御阿礼の大いなる知識』使用時、対象として選択した味方キャラ1人に「叡智の護術」効果が追加発動する不具合を修正
・スペル『蓬莱の薬』「魔力充填」の行動後遅延を変更し、スキルレベルに応じて行動後遅延が緩和するように修正
・スペル『杞人地を憂う』の威力上昇
・サブスペル「シールドバッシュ」の消費MP2増加
・サブスペル「斬一閃」の威力上昇、消費MP1増加
・サブスペル「爆炎剣」の消費MP2増加
・サブスペル「穿刺突」の消費MP2増加
・サブスペル「鉄山靠」の消費MP1増加
・サブスペル「アスピリアサージ」の消費MP2増加
・サブスペル「暗殺剣」の消費MP2増加
・サブスペル「天叢雲剣の一刃」の消費MP2増加＋行動後遅延増加
・サブスペル「天つ終焉の開闢」の消費MP3増加＋行動後遅延増加
・サブスペル「龍神の吐息」の消費MP5増加＋威力減少
・サブスペル「ヴォーパルブレード」の消費MP2増加
・サブスペル「魔力の嵐」の消費MP8増加
・サブスペル「光の剣」の消費MP2増加＋威力減少
・サブスペル「*破壊*の杖」の消費MP4増加
・１）一部スキル、装備品の被ダメージ減少効果によって、自身が受ける回復量も減少していたのを修正（クリスタルのおまもり、特定属性ダメ減少系スキル、漆塗りの角珠、たまには休みたい門番）
・２）小傘のMP回復値を32から8に修正
・３）追加実績「パトラッシュの向こう側」の報酬が説明文と異なる不具合を修正
１）についての詳細
→被ダメージを減少させるスキル、装備品効果が「受ける回復量には影響しないもの」「受ける回復量も減少させるもの」に分かれていたので
被ダメージ減少スキル、装備品の効果は受ける回復量に影響しないよう統一しました
２）についての詳細
→プラスディスクでのキャラ性能見直し後からMP回復値32を仕様としていたのですが、
他キャラと比べて余りにも高いMP回復値のせいで
「小傘のMP回復値32はバグではないか」という指摘を度々いただいており
あまりに高すぎる値がプレイヤーに不安を与えてしまうようなので、高いながらも比較的現実的なMP回復値に下方修正を行いました。
３）についての詳細
→既に当該実績を開放済みの場合、セーブデータのロード直後に
正常な報酬「鉄人のハチマキ」の所持数が１増加します。
Here's the changes in case anyone has issues downloading the update again and is capable of reading japanese.
-
Lots of nerfs, some adjustments, some bugfixes. And apparently Kogasa's MP recovery was completely intended according to the patch notes, but since everyone is like "no this has to be a bug" he just adjusted it down to "still higher than normal but not absurdly high like it was before." I guess she was just supposed to be the surprise "I swap out and then I have all my MP back to do stuff" character?
-
-Judas Pain's MP recovery up is working again
-Some equipment got fixed
-some sub-equipment got buffed
-some skill descriptions got fixed
-resurrecting characters no longer have weird HP values when they resurrect from attacks that hit their maximum HP
-9F extra inaccessible area fixed
-Instant Attack now costs 1 TP to activate
-Silent Singing Voice's stat increase got a large buff
-Extra Attack now only activates 2/3 as often for subclass spells, and repeated actions cost 1/2 of base MP instead of 0
-Magic Counter and Magic Counter+ damage up
-Moon Reading got fixed
-Kokoro's masks and mask buff/debuffs increased
-Power of the Child of Miare got nerfed to (SLv*9)% chance to activate (previously SLv*10%, so now it's 81% instead of 90%), and it also costs 15 TP now (previously 12)
-Her incantation also got nerfed
-Strategist's damage reducing passive now works (wasn't working before)
-Dragon God's passives now work
-Hakkoro Charge Mode now properly charges in the back
-All-covering Robe of Darkness now also increases Rumia's MAG (in addition to, not replacing its original effect)
-Avenge the Tomboy now also increases damage to enemies with SPD debuff
-Shikigami's Heavy Accel Attack changed its effect
-Deaf to All But the Song now guarantees a stack of 4 rather than 6 (may not be an overall nerf depending on Singing in Silence's magnitude difference)
-Asthma Medicine now has a max level of 3 (up from 2)
-Thunder in the Abtruse Clouds now properly adds its SPD buff
-Chytrid Resistance now also increases Suwako's HP
-Hakugyokurou's Mistress's True Power now also increases damage on enemies whose DTH resistance is above a certain threshold
-Ability to tell Black from White no longer crashes the game if an enemy flees when it's active
-Super Scope 3D slightly nerfed
-Wind God's Fan buffed
-Divine Grandson's Advent now sets timebar to 5000+5000*SLv (what's the point of this)
-Grudge Returning now inflicts 14400 TRR (up from 9000)
-Jealousy of the Kind and Lovely now properly increases damage based on strength of TRR on enemy (this part wasn't working before)
-Gas Woven Orb now has 6600 post-use (up from 5000)
-Miare's Great Knowledge no longer adds temporary invincibility to the targetted ally
-Hourai Elixir and Magic Circuit has delay adjusted, and their SLv now decreases delay
-Man of Qi Worries about the Earth power up
The Great Subclass Spell Nerfs:
-Shield Bash costs 2 more MP
-Iai Slash does more damage and costs 1 more MP
-Explosive Flame Sword costs 2 more MP
-Puncturing Thrust costs 2 more MP
-Iron Mountain Charge costs 1 more MP
-Aspiration Surge costs 2 more MP
-Assassin Sword costs 2 more MP
-Ame-no-Murakumo Slash costs 2 more MP and has higher delay
-Start of Heavenly Demise costs 3 more MP and has higher delay
-Breath of Dragon God costs 5 more MP and damage down
-Vorpal Blade costs 2 more MP
-Magical Tempest costs 8 more MP
-Sword of Light costs 2 more MP and damage down
-Wand of *Destruction* costs 4 more MP
-Passives that reduce damage (and quartz charm) no longer reduces healing as well
-Kogasa's MP Recovery is now 8 (apparently, the change to 32 was intentional, but it was so high that it was perceived as a bug, so now it's nerfed to a more reasonable value)
-One of the plus disk achievements now properly gives Iron Mand Headband when it unlocks
-
Was Kogasa?s MP recovery intended to surprise us? You know, as a meta thing?
-
-Tenshi's Keystone Formation now increases all stats but with a smaller effect.
-Kokoro's Manipulation of Emotions got buffed.
Its nice to see that a good amount of the suggestions that Lonely sent got taken in. I'm not sure about the subclass spells nerfs though, I guess its to incentivate using personal spellcards (so that one character with very good offensive capabilities doesn't become a better "insert element here" attacker than a character who has a spell of that element) but this might hurt parties that lack certain elements, plus it feels like it might be a bigger nerf during the main game where character MP is lower; the unique subclasses did deserve a bit of a nerf though, so that's probably fine (I guess that Archmage and Swordmaster got indirectly buffed since their spells still cost the same?).
I actually never noticed that Parsee's Jealousy of Kind and Lovely was supposed to increase its damage based on TRR, depending on how big the increase is, it might be a bit too strong, since she was already able to one-shot Ame no Murakumo (and after awakening she gets a 75000 TRR); good thing a lot of enemies in Plus resist DRK I guess.
Divine Grandson's Advent is supposed to be a change to prevent it from going down to 0 ATB with Satori, though I'm not sure if 5000 is that much better (I guess its now technically usable by Satori in some situations).
EDIT: Some numbers.
- Chen's Multi Accel Attack now gives her 2 stacks per turn and has a 30% chance to lose one stack whenever another ally takes a turn, the limit is now doubled to 10 but the ATK increase is also halved to 5% per counter; Bakeneko now also gives her up to a 10 base increase in ATK and SPD.
-Keystone Formation is now a 7% all buff.
-Cirno now gets a SPD debuff*1.5 increase in damage (so 75% at max debuff).
-Youkai who Lurks in the Darkness now grants up to a 12 increase in MAG.
-Chytrid Resistance now grants up to a 15 increase in HP.
-Super Incantation is now a 1.8+0.3 per Slv damage increase (so it got nerfed from 450% to 330% at max Slv).
-Kokoro's buffs with Manipulation of Emotions got increased to 48% for SPD and 32% for every other stat, the debuffs got increased to 24%.
-Yuyuko gets a 10% damage increase against enemies with over 100 DTH resistance and a 15% increase against those with more than 150 resistance.
-
Divine Grandson's Advent doesn't seem to be actually changed yet. It still increases by 10000 per level and Satori still reduces characters to 0.
Edit: If you use Instant Attack once a character is at 0 TP, the number turns into symbols. I've also had the game crash from just switching Momiji into an empty slot while she still had TP so I'm guessing it's something related to the Instant Attack skill in general.
Did more testing. Seems that if you select an empty slot in the frontline then switch an Instant Attacker to that slot, the game will crash. It doesn't seem to crash if you select the character first and then the empty slot however.
-
I wonder just how powerful Kokoro's masks have become. The debuffs/buffs have basically doubled in strength through Manipulation of Emotions. Assuming the masks's own buffs have also doubled in power, that would give a +20% to the party and a +50% to Kokoro herself, which is... not an entirely trivial amount at all. Also, I'm curious as to how stronger did Man of Qi Worries about the Earth (personally, I hope something at least like 180 (ATK + MAG), which would put it on par with Reimu's Fantasy Seal). Depending on the magnitude of these buffs, Kokoro might actually be almost usable... though still a bit disappointing in random battles since it requires you to Concentrate twice first.
On the other side, R.I.P. Dragon God Yuuka lol. In fact, with the mana consumption of Extra Attack, I'm not even sure she's all that viable anymore - one single Extra Attack chain on Master Spark and she's out of MP basically. Though, on the upside, Suwako's extra bulk might allow her to take Yuuka's slot on my team (what with me already using Sanae and Kanako to begin with), so not everything is lost...^^
-
Seeing roughly 40-45% less damage on 30f mobs with Dragon God's Breath, that's quite the nerf. Delay on Murakumo Slash is now 4500, delay on Start of Heavenly Demise is now 660 (insignificant change though). The delay on Magic Circuit is now 6000 at level 1, and 7200 at level 5.
Besides the Dragon God's Breath nerfs (and even then it seems excessively nerfed), I'm not sure about the subclass nerfs. I guess 3peso wants them to be bad for boss fights, since almost all of the nerfs are applied to spell cards that are useful for boss fights, primarily single-target ones. Ah well. Most of the nerfs don't matter too much once character MP is high enough and MP restoration effects become more available. I'm really happy about the Tenshi buff with Keystone Formation, 7% to all stats on a switch is excellent. For characters that can buff themselves with Majesty or similar effects, it means 100% buff upkeep (or close to it) without an Herbalist's Placebo Effect, provided a Strategist is in play. In particular, it's 100% buff upkeep for Sorcerer Iku, so Tenshi can finally support Iku offensively with personal skills. The Magic Counter buff sounds really good too, I think Magic Counter+ was previously doing 3x the damage of a normal Magic Attack from Iku or something like that.
Strategist's damage reduction effect being nonfunctional explains a discrepancy I found while calculating damage, Serpent of Chaos' Disintegrating Breath ended up doing about 10% more damage than I calculated it would. I figured this meant that its damage formula was not the same as Space Compression, and may have ignored DEF or something, but it turns out Strategist wasn't working properly. I think I ran into a similar problem with Kedama Goddess as well while trying to calculate its ATK stat, this also throws off all of my ATK/MAG calculations for various bosses, which means their ATK and MAG aren't quite as high as I thought. This also makes surviving the Dark Lord's "Grond" attack
feasible, since Strategist and Dragon God's Power would reduce the damage to levels reasonably survivable for Iku and other characters with average levels of HP, provided they were properly equipped to do so.
I didn't notice any sub equipment alterations, but I didn't look especially hard, just at the top level stuff. I don't have anything else specific to mention about the new patch outside of being pretty happy that some of the changes I suggested came about. Although that's quite the buff to Rumia, wow. Kogasa's MP recovery being intended to be 32 is also really surprising. Although it was intentional, I think it was a little busted that way too, 8 is much more reasonable.
-
Woooooow, Dragon God's Breath got nerfed really badly. And with that MP increase, I'm not sure if it's even worth it anymore.
And here's my best attempt on Man in a Fundoshi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvSWzqiQ1bU, with stats after the wipe.
-
Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Dragon God's Breath anymore, except for targeting CLD weakness. The damage should be roughly similar to Explosive Flame Sword now. Samidare Slash is still worse outside of MP cost.
Regarding your run against Fundoshi Man
, I think part of your damage issues is a lack of additional multipliers like Herbalist's Herb of Awakening or Strategist's Furious Scheme. With those two in play, you can increase your damage by a little over 50% (except for Patchouli due to Grand Incantation), accounting for the lowered buff decay rates too. If you're running the new update, Strategist will properly reduce damage now too. As far as I can tell, Fundoshi Man
does not utilize any status effects whatsoever, so you can adjust your gear around that to get more durability and/or damage as necessary. As you probably noticed, some of your low SPI characters suffered enormous damage from Start of Heavenly Demise. I think 400+ SPI affinity and 450K HP will be safe provided you have a MT healer, which you unfortunately do not. I don't think you can really do anything about that except make some changes to your party composition or apply a bunch of ATK/MAG debuffs, SIL, whatever you can.
So specific party adjustments would probably be
-make Komachi an Herbalist for Placebo Effect + Herb of Awakening. Placebo Effect has the same 7000 delay as a Direct Attack, so whenever you'd have a dead turn and you can't or don't need to apply Herb of Awakening or switch a character, you can use Placebo Effect on a character to increase their buffs. This way, none of Komachi's turns are wasted.
-make some buffing characters Strategists. Reducing the buff decay rate is even more valuable than enhanced buffs, and you get the +10% damage increase/reduction skills to go along with it. Since you do a lot of switching around, you'll need multiple Strategists, so pick whoever you think doesn't need subclass effects. I'd recommend 3 of Iku, Yukari, Renko, and Ran, with the remaining character being an Enhancer or Herbalist (I'd say Herbalist for Iku and Enhancer for the rest), but if you find yourself needing less than use fewer. Ideally, I think 1 Strategist that you keep on the frontline the whole fight is best, if you can manage that.
-make Aya an Enhancer. This is more to give her something to do with her subclass. If she doesn't need to buff anyone's SPD or use Divine Grandson's Advent, she can give an ATK/MAG buff. Alternatively, you could use Elementalist, but I think you need better buffing ability than an additional damage boost when it comes to Aya. If you find yourself not using Enhancer buffs because your characters already have high/max ATK/MAG buffs, or the delay on Enhancer buffs is too high, then go with Elementalist instead. Elementalist buffs have 8000 delay, making them really convenient for Aya since she can act again quickly.
-Adjust Yuugi, Suika, and Flandre's equipment and library levels so that they have 400+ SPI affinity (use Affinity Boost on Flandre and Suika), and get rid of Patchouli's Earth Armor in favor of a third Tupsimati or anything that increases MAG and HP. If you can get Patchouli (and everyone else) above 400-450K HP, that should suffice. If that doesn't do it, further increase their HP and affinity. Also, make Yuugi and Suika Transcendents to give them more HP and damage reduction, this should be more useful than Warrior. Transcendent also has higher base ATK and an unconditional 10% damage increase, so it should have a bit more damage output as well.
-The enemy version of Start of Heavenly Demise is a composite attack that uses both ATK and MAG, so if you can debuff these, that would help immensely. The boss also appears to be very susceptible to SIL and TRR for further damage reduction.
As a reference, this is my run for Fundoshi Man
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E_ZCNYq2Sg. Character setups (for the ones that were actually used) were
-Aya: Elementalist w/ Tokugawa Statue & 3x Long Sword "Ringil", max SPD for level bonuses
-Iku: Strategist w/ Tokugawa Statue & Regalia/Medicine of Life/Long Sword "Ringil", max SPD for level bonuses
-Akyuu: Herbalist w/ same setup as Iku
-Tenshi: Murakumo's Blessing w/ Tokugawa Statue & Magic Sword Chaos/2x Scourge, max ATK for level bonuses
-Rumia: Enhancer w/ Tokugawa Statue & 2x Regalia/Medicine of Life, half HP and half MAG for level bonuses
-Miko: Dragon God's Power w/ Tokugawa Statue & 3x Machine God Lucifer, max MAG for level bonuses
I don't think it's very helpful to figuring out how to fight the boss with your own party composition though, as it relies on things that you don't have, like some passive damage multipliers (Rumia's Human racial bonus, Akyuu's 16% elemental weakness bonus, Miko's 8-16% buff increase), a MT healer (Rumia again), and Instant Attack to refresh ATB rapidly. I'd rather not recommend changing your party composition unless you actually want to do so. Hopefully the above changes should make the boss more doable.
--
Oh yeah, unrelated, but I realized I overlooked that Underworld Hammer "Grond"
did receive a buff, and now grants a +999% ATK increase instead of +800%.
-
I was worried about this, but Sakuya's Private Square becomes *really* bad with Extra Attack now. It was already useless with it before, but now it's an active detriment, reducing your MP by 8 every time the game decides to roll it. Lunar Clock was already very good and honestly making it cost more MP with Extra Attack is good. Private Square gets shafted hard though.
Eirin's level 5 Hourai Elixir Post-Use is 4900 which... is a nerf, from memory? I think it was 5000 before.
-
Hourai Elixir had a 4000 delay, so that's a decent buff actually.
I think Extra Attack is going to need to have another adjustment. 3peso even mentioned it specifically on Twitter, so hopefully some good ideas are put forth about fixing it.
-
For Xarizzar's
Fundoshi Man
fight, other than what Lonely already said, I would recommend using Start of Heavenly Demise with Patchouli during his last phase, this will reduce the boss' SPI damage by 70%, which allows you to go all out offense for the first few turns without dying (probably).
I feel like Extra Attack's nerf looks fair on paper (since it proccs on Concentration too, giving decent MP sustain), but its pretty awful for Yuuka and Nazrin: the first because of her Master Spark and the second because Nazrin is really reliant on subclasses for AoE spells, unlike all the other Extra Attackers who have decent AoE personal spellcards already. On the other hand, Orin is probably the least affected imo. Its interesting the way it works now though, it recovers half of the MP cost of the spellcard (rounded down) and then uses the original cost ( so if you had 20MP and get an extra Flower Shot, you recover 1MP and then consume 2MP).
-
I wouldn't mind something like an incremental MP reduction for each Extra Attack proc that happens though it probably isn't what 3peso is aiming for as the additional cost seems to be more of a way to deter the player from abusing the unique subclass options too much even with the decreased chance of Extra Attack occurring.
-
As far as I can tell, Fundoshi Man
does not utilize any status effects whatsoever
Actually, the last attack in his rotation in his Wind form
is an attack that inflicts all status ailments, including death, which is the second reason why that form is so menacing. But if that happens, I'm KO'd anyway, so I'll just find a way to beat it before that.
-make Komachi an Herbalist for Placebo Effect + Herb of Awakening. Placebo Effect has the same 7000 delay as a Direct Attack, so whenever you'd have a dead turn and you can't or don't need to apply Herb of Awakening or switch a character, you can use Placebo Effect on a character to increase their buffs. This way, none of Komachi's turns are wasted.
Hmm... But then I'll have to use turns healing her. Monk's ability to regenerate HP every turn made her a very good tank, which is why you saw me attacking with her (small delay). I'll take this into consideration though.
-make some buffing characters Strategists. Reducing the buff decay rate is even more valuable than enhanced buffs, and you get the +10% damage increase/reduction skills to go along with it. Since you do a lot of switching around, you'll need multiple Strategists, so pick whoever you think doesn't need subclass effects. I'd recommend 3 of Iku, Yukari, Renko, and Ran, with the remaining character being an Enhancer or Herbalist (I'd say Herbalist for Iku and Enhancer for the rest), but if you find yourself needing less than use fewer. Ideally, I think 1 Strategist that you keep on the frontline the whole fight is best, if you can manage that.
I wanted to make Yukari a tank strategist again (since I made her into an Archmage to see how well she worked out as a DPS (it didn't work out very well for me)), but I forgot. Now that it reduces damage, too, it should be far more interesting to keep her as a strategist tank.
And right now, I'm wondering what to do with my Dragon God Power Flandre. I'm thinking I'm going to turn her into either a Gambler or a Transcendent...
Anyway, thank you very much for your tips!
-
As far as Monk Komachi goes, it's "only" 14% HP regen compared to 10% HP regen by default, but if that really matters a lot you can go Healer Komachi instead. Same self-recovery, but everyone in your party gets 4% recovery too, and Komachi can do a decent single-target heal. Think for Flandre, Transcendent might be the better option. At the very least, you can use Laveatein to cover FIR still. Flandre's durability isn't bad if you patch up her affinity, so going Gambler would waste it.
Oh yeah, you could use Dragon God's Power for the passive skills on Komachi, plus the fantastic affinity bonuses.
-
I think Extra Attack is going to need to have another adjustment. 3peso even mentioned it specifically on Twitter, so hopefully some good ideas are put forth about fixing it.
The problem with Extra Attack is its extreme high variance. If you only consider its average contribution, it's not much stronger than, say, Grand Incantation. Sure, Extra Attack also powers up non-damaging moves (such as Sakuya's SPD buff) and Concentration, but that's somewhat offset by the fact it's more unreliable than something like Grand Incantation and other flat buffs.
I found the extra MP consumption to be very much unwarranted. None of the Extra Attack characters we currently have felt broken, or even toptier, from my experience - Nazrin and Sakuya are average, Rin is only quite good if you use the full Earth Palace family, and Yuuka is offset by a low speed and lack of other synergies or multipliers, as well as a below average selection of spellcards. I honestly dunno what 3peso's rationale for nerfing Extra Attack was, tbh - at the very least, I've not seen anybody complaining about it on this thread (unlike, say, Maintenance)
I wanted to make Yukari a tank strategist again (since I made her into an Archmage to see how well she worked out as a DPS (it didn't work out very well for me)), but I forgot. Now that it reduces damage, too, it should be far more interesting to keep her as a strategist tank.
Yukari is actually a pretty fierce attacker, but her strength lies more in her spellcards and skills than in her stats - which are good, mind you, but not over-the-top amazing when you factor her slow levelling and library rates. Her spellcards, on the other hand, are a blast - Hyperactive Flying Object is one of the best WND attacks you could ask for, and Shikigami + hits crazy hard if you have the full Yakumo family on your side. Furthermore, her constant DEF debuff makes Shikigami+ (as well as Chen and Ran's own physical attacks) even stronger. Personally, I gave her Murakumo's Blessing to give her a good AoE nuke for randoms (I really didn't have any better candidate on my team tbh), but I'd also recomment Transcendent to power up her own spellcards even more.
I'm still not 100% sure, but in terms of offensive potential, I think the Yakumo family might be the most powerful family in the game (especially with Chen's buff in 1.104). Moriya shrine comes close, though, especially now that Suwako is (hopefully) bulky enough to actually stay in the frontline when needed.
-
Yukari is actually a pretty fierce attacker, but her strength lies more in her spellcards and skills than in her stats - which are good, mind you, but not over-the-top amazing when you factor her slow levelling and library rates. Her spellcards, on the other hand, are a blast - Hyperactive Flying Object is one of the best WND attacks you could ask for, and Shikigami + hits crazy hard if you have the full Yakumo family on your side. Furthermore, her constant DEF debuff makes Shikigami+ (as well as Chen and Ran's own physical attacks) even stronger. Personally, I gave her Murakumo's Blessing to give her a good AoE nuke for randoms (I really didn't have any better candidate on my team tbh), but I'd also recomment Transcendent to power up her own spellcards even more.
I'm still not 100% sure, but in terms of offensive potential, I think the Yakumo family might be the most powerful family in the game (especially with Chen's buff in 1.104). Moriya shrine comes close, though, especially now that Suwako is (hopefully) bulky enough to actually stay in the frontline when needed.
Interesting. Can you provide some numbers? I don't mind acknowledging that I might have went wrong somewhere in the DPS route that I chose for her. But if I didn't make (m)any mistakes, I'd think I have better options for DPS.
Also, is Chen even remotely useful? I haven't read many good things on her. I wonder if I can rep someone in my party with her, if I knew how to actually use her. Cause I really do want to make Yukari as overpowered as LonelyGaruga has made Tenshi.
-
Interesting. Can you provide some numbers? I don't mind acknowledging that I might have went wrong somewhere in the DPS route that I chose for her. But if I didn't make (m)any mistakes, I'd think I have better options for DPS.
Also, is Chen even remotely useful? I haven't read much on her. I wonder if I can rep someone in my party. Cause I really do want to make Yukari as overpowered as LonelyGaruga has made Tenshi.
About Chen, yes, she's quite useful - she has one of the strongest FIR damage output in the game, with only the Earth Spirits Palace party coming clearly ahead of her I think (And the Yakumo family is a hell of a lot more versatile than Earth Palace, in terms of damage variety and support).
As for Yukari herself, I'll show you some numbers later when I get back home, but let me just premise - I play her quite differently from how Garuga plays Tenshi. I'm personally not a fan of putting all my eggs in a basket (read: using 1 damage dealer and 3 supporters), because I think you can do more damage by employing multiple damage dealers at the same time. So, while my Yukari may fail to deal the same amount of damage Tenshi would do in Garuga's set up, the combined power of Yukari, Ran, and Maribel (who alternates healing/buffing and damage dealing, depending on the situation) probably can.
-
While Yukari doesn't provide as much damage in one single spellcard, her Shikigami Ran+ has a very low delay when Ran and Chen are also on the front (7500) which is her strong point imo, this restriction is also lifted once she awakens (where she gets the full benefit even if they are in the back). For comparison, Shikigami Ran+ with the full boost deals about half the damage Patchouli does when she uses Grand Incantation boosted Start of Heavenly Demise, while having 4 times less delay. That said, its worth noting that if you're not gonna use the whole Yakumo Clan, there's much better options for DPS, Yukari's leveling rate and library costs are both terrible so her raw stats aren't that good.
Chen is pretty good, both for PHY and FIR damage, particularly if you fix her rather poor ATK growth with gems.
-
While Yukari doesn't provide as much damage in one single spellcard, her Shikigami Ran+ has a very low delay when Ran and Chen are also on the front (7500) which is her strong point imo, this restriction is also lifted once she awakens (where she gets the full benefit even if they are in the back). For comparison, Shikigami Ran+ with the full boost deals about half the damage Patchouli does when she uses Grand Incantation boosted Start of Heavenly Demise, while having 4 times less delay. That said, its worth noting that if you're not gonna use the whole Yakumo Clan, there's much better options for DPS, Yukari's leveling rate and library costs are both terrible so her raw stats aren't that good.
Ofc, forgot to mention that, but none of the Yakumo clan members are worth using unless you use the whole family (though really, very few "family chars" in this game are worth using unless you use the whole family...). But I'd say that the comparison you made between Yukari and Patchouli is even more in favor of Yukari than your example suggests. Because not only does Yukari have much lower delay, but everytime it's her turn, she buffs herself up and debuffs all the enemies as well - not to mention her passive support like Border of Power and Magic. Oh, and she's also pretty bulky herself, for such a good attacker. So yeah, there's a lot of good which can be said about Yukari as a PHY attacker.
-
Yeah, the Extra Attack nerfs were a bit much. It's probably for the better that, say, Sakuya can't kill any enemy in the game with lucky enough procs, but I think that'd be better achieved by just not letting it proc off of itself. Not working as well for subclass spells is the final nail in the coffin since all the subclass spells you'd actually want to use are weaker now.
The thing is, Sakuya just lost a LOT of power. She used to rely a lot on Extra Attack + subclass spells for enemies that resist WND/DRK and now both of those options are substantially worse. And if she decides to use Perfect Square, then there's a decent chance she'll cast it again and lose 8 MP for no actual benefit.
The Extra Attack rework idea I have would to have it always proc on every fourth action. It also wouldn't activate for any spellcards that cost more then 10 MP. This neatly solves the RNG problem, stops Extra Attack from working with the unique subclass skills and makes Sakuya not waste time repeatedly Private Squaring. Yuuka's concentration ability might have to bypass the 10 MP thing somehow, for her Extra Attack Master Spark gimmick to work.
RE: Chen:
Chen is a frigging goddess of damage in Plus Disc even without her fellow Yakumos. Pheonix Spread Wings has a ludicrous formula even before it's boosted by 30% by Warrior and she can easiliy maintain near 100% ATK buffs with ease. And her fast levelling rate let's her get her excellent Awakening skills early while also getting the ATK boost upgrades. Plus Instant Attack provides a huge amount of utility, although the new TP loss nerf lessens that somewhat. Chen has the best TP out of all of the Instant Attackers anyways, so she's probably the best for doing cheesy stuff with it. Solo Chen is probably not worth it in the main game, or especially postgame, since she just struggles so hard against enemies with high defense, which are annoyingly common there.
-
I honestly dunno what 3peso's rationale for nerfing Extra Attack was, tbh - at the very least, I've not seen anybody complaining about it on this thread (unlike, say, Maintenance)
Seems that it's considered a problem area with JP players, judging from comments on the BBS link on the JP wiki.
Also, is Chen even remotely useful? I haven't read many good things on her. I wonder if I can rep someone in my party with her, if I knew how to actually use her. Cause I really do want to make Yukari as overpowered as LonelyGaruga has made Tenshi.
Ah, well, to do that you'd have to plan your entire party around taking advantage of Yukari, and to a lesser extent the Yakumo Clan as a whole. Like, I'll give a quick rundown of my party and the roles.
-Keine: MT buffer for when I want to attack with both Iku and Tenshi (considering replacing her)
-Momiji: Instant Attack character, 20% Flying racial damage bonus, 50% ACC bonus for high EVA targets or low ACC attacks like Explosive Flame Sword
-Rumia: MT healer, 20% Human racial damage bonus, can apply all status/debuffs post-Awakening with excellent delay
-Aya: Guaranteed first turn, provides buffs before the boss acts, occasionally Divine Grandson's Advent for getting the finishing hit on a boss before it can act
-Mystia: Secondary Instant Attack character for IA Healer or other strategies that involve using a spell card with Momiji, provides debuffs on successful evasion from the back
-Satori: 24% elemental weakness damage bonus, secondary user for buffs from Iku or other characters
-Reisen: MND debuffer for Iku's Celestial Maiden's Blow, can apply all debuffs with high accuracy (her usefulness has been really low recently)
-Sanae: 30% SPI element damage bonus, 20% Youkai racial damage bonus (39% post-Awakening, Super Youkai Buster is 16%), ST healer and all-stat buffer, small MP recovery post-Awakening
-Miko: Passive 8% buff increase from the backline, miscellaneous damage dealing/tanking with Maintenance clone (considering replacing her)
-Akyuu: 50% MT Boost post-Awakening, 16% elemental weakness damage bonus (stacks with Satori), 90% 81% rate resurrection tank with no delay, can grant 1-hit invincibility on dead turns or to protect Tenshi from powerful attacks
Basically everyone besides Reisen helps Tenshi, and Reisen can still activate Ninja's skills or debuff a boss to make it slower and less damaging. Some of the characters are also useful as secondary attackers, like Momiji (Rabies Bite, subclass spells), Rumia (Moonlight Ray), Reisen (Mind Starmine, Discarder), and Miko to a lesser extent (I've only used Dragon God's Power with her because Tenshi needed Murakumo's Blessing for the fight). I used to use Eiki instead of Miko, for bosses that Tenshi and Iku both had a hard time against (namely Shredding Amnisieri).
Anyway, you can basically divide character selection into two groups.
1) Characters that help Yukari (and the other Yakumo Clan members) deal damage, take damage, and otherwise support them in combat
2) Characters that fill gaps in their offensive abilities and/or take advantage of their supporting abilities
At least, that's how I would go about it.
-
I'm mixed on the patch, but the biggest disappointment for me is the one everyone here seems to agree with; Extra Attack. Maybe I was just never clued into its broken applications, but it never seemed all that great to me, and with its most recent changes now it only makes those characters weaker in every situation that wasn't "abusive." If these changes stick, I can't really say I'd even think about using ANY of the Extra Attackers without pre-planning to baby their MP with gems.
Subclass spellcards having their costs increased also doesn't make much sense to me. I get that it makes them harder to subclass tweak any old character into hitting any element effectively, but at the same time, simply bumping up the costs doesn't actually fix that past the maingame. All this change did, as far as I can see, is limit subclasses earlygame and make players rely more on each character's personal kit instead unless they're desperate, which is... oooookaaaay? I don't know.
Pretty much everything else seems good, though. Except for maybe that Dragon God attack being overnerfed, but I am pretty glad to see it changed from the "one size fits all win button" it could be before now. Just might have gone TOO hard on it. If next patch rolls back or at least lessens the Extra Attack gutting, I'm pretty happy with this. ...Not that it fully means much to me, as I'm not playing it either way until a translation patch is up, and considering 3peso's already talking about next patch, I have a strong feeling the translation team isn't going to bother right yet.
-
Thank goodness Tomes of Reincarnation can now be bought. And I think I'll wait for elminster1372 to show their setup and damage, as I'm also a fan and a user (albeit her not being in any of my videos) of "Maribel".
And thank you all for your input on Chen
-
3peso should probably just bite the bullet already and make extra attack more likely but prevent it from chaining.
The nerf itself is probably just targeted at Yuuka post awakening, since you have a 1 in 3 shot at getting a bonus master spark every time which, with good rng, is kinda ow. But changing it so that you can't get a second extra attack would probably fix that abuse case whilst keeping the skill itself in its intended purpose (maybe change it to 20/40% or 25/50%). It'd be kind of a shame to lose out on the occasional jackpot of 2-3+ chains in a row but ultimately it's probably not healthy for the game to leave it like that.
Also why such a huge akyuu nerf ow. That feels particularly brutal in conjunction with nerfing subclasses. Was she really that big of an issue, especially post subclass nerfs?
-
Super Incantation probably warranted a nerf (and that nerf might be an acceptable level), as it dealt some amazing damage with Start of Heavenly Demise and other strong subclass spells, but the nerf to Dragon God's Breath was all that was really needed among all the subclass nerfs. Nerfing Power of the Child of Miare wasn't really necessary either. The TP cost increase is fine, between TP Boost and Tokugawa Statue she has enough TP for 4 revivals, but nerfing the rate just makes it more RNG-dependent. That's really something I'd rather the game have less of. 90% was reliable enough, but 81% is pushing it. Make the TP cost 20 if that's what it takes to balance a 100% rate.
I'll admit though, I don't even use Power of the Child of Miare that much because Regalia + Medicine of Life makes her durable enough to generally be able to take 2-3 hits from average power attacks without any HP level bonuses, so I can't complain too much since it's not like it actually significantly affects using her, or at least, the way I would use her. Especially since she can just give herself invincibility if she's being used as a "tank". But it really wasn't a necessary nerf.
-
(Yukari dmg output) spoilers: https://i.gyazo.com/dbb6ebd443ca89d2d616f2cd6fd300d3.png
That's... not half bad actually. Herb of Awakening, full magic buff, Enchant - Florite, Awakened Transcendant Yukari, Yakumo Family buff. Thank you, everyone. Now, to find some use for Chen. She is really squishy so I'll have to put some thought into it. Is Gambler viable for her?
Although, I still think I'll use tank Yukari for Fundoshi man's Wind form
.
-
TBH, given that one of the suggestions was to decrease RNG, yet 3peso added the new Chen skill which gives you a 30% chance to lose stacks when allies take turns, I suppose RNG is just something that 3peso doesn't want to change, can't really agree with that, but I guess its just how he prefers it.
I feel like preventing Extra Attack from chaining would definitely be a step in the right direction; if the nerf is targeted against high powered subclass spells, then having the Extra procc deal less damage (40% of the original damage, for example) for subclass spells could be applied too, though the problem is probably just the unique subclass spellcards, Southern Cross and Execution are not really that strong in comparison.
I personally never felt that Yuuka's Master Spark was that powerful, simply because its MP efficiency is absolutely terrible.
-
Is the english patch from before compatible with 1.104a? I'm guessing no but just to be sure. It's still very useful for side-by-side comparison for item usage, awakening etc.
-
I feel like preventing Extra Attack from chaining would definitely be a step in the right direction
Given how his solution for Yuuka's awakening locking the game when concentrating was "make concentrate not trigger Extra Attack at all", I don't think he has figured out how to make Extra Attack not chaining when he doesn't want it to.
-
Just fought Miko and um survived thanks to Strategist Byakuren and Enchanter Sanae for saving lives. I might keep Miko in my party, but oh god those skills are kinda good well good, but Imma have to see.
-
Hi everyone!
I have problems understanding Japanese (also bear with me, English isn't my first language either), and I don't seem to be able to solve the puzzle on 30 Floor (the very first section to the north). No matter how I use the orbs, all the passages are blocked by color barriers. There is some message appears when I enter red orb room, it contains number 30, so maybe it has relevance to some trick used in order to get to locked passages?
I also can't seem to reach some of the bosses on 29th Floor, I can reach only 3 deformed bosses and duo boss with red and green battlers
. There are rocks to other bosses, do they require something special from me? Perhaps beating some Endless Corridor bosses or something like that?
Also, I am new user on this forum, I am very happy to meet you all :D
-
Apparently in the plus disk final plot boss fight,
when the character is told to use the Ame-No-Murakumo's full power,
they get a massive stat increase. MFW Renko picks it up (lol wut) and only has ~2000 MAG but Galaxy Stop does over 2mil and outdamages all my nukers. WELP RENKO. YOU GO GIRL.
And I think I'll wait for elminster1372 to show their setup and damage, as I'm also a fan and a user (albeit her not being in any of my videos) of "Maribel".
Maribel was so underwhelming in normal game, but after awakening she's amazing, I love it. She absolutely demolishes random battles the second you awaken her, especially. I just have enhancer Renko plop the enhancer atk/mag buff on for cheap and she blows the battles up with irresistible, unmissable damage, often one-shotting almost all enemies. Vision Sharing rocks too, but I just love how Liberated Abilities gets! Even for bosses with Grand Incantation.
Love most of the changes. I really want to see what kind of numbers Kokoro's passive stat change does now. Extra Attack will probably get tweaked again, it's a strange skill but most of the users weren't broken anyway. Re:Maintennance, I think Miko's version should stay the same (it's a different skill name anyway) but Nitori's should get a heavy nerf because Nitori is already not that bad WITHOUT maintenance, and Super Scope especially was dumb-strong and needed the nerf. Miko on the other hand, is very meh until she gets the highest class equipment and a bunch of base stat boosts, so she's fair. (She's pretty dang good after that...)
It's also kind of fascinating to see that he seriously did implement at -least- half of LonelyGaruga's suggested changes. There's no way that's a coincidence. Huh, maybe I should have gotten in on that!
-
Oh, when you put it like that, I guess 3peso did implement a lot of the things I suggested, even if there were a lot of things that, uh...weren't (those subclass nerfs). Maybe I should try writing up another e-mail then. Responses to the update (definitely starting out with a big thank you for the Keystone Formation buff!), more bugs that have been found, more balance changes, that kind of thing.
-
I'm still hoping that Koishi gets Kinship Boost (I still can't fathom why she doesn't have it), and that Suwako's Earth Creation is eventually changed (why would I want to place Suwako in the tank slot??)
-
spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HBmuOrpku4
Deformed Trio video
. I was sleepy when I made this video so mistakes were made :P
I also beat the man in the fundoshi
. Video will be up later.
-
I don't see Maintenance as the issue with Nitori. Overheating is the problem for her excessive damage output and is what I think either needs to be nerfed or removed from her skill set altogether, possibly being replaced with a different skill that provides less damage increase but still encourages the player to have her sit on the field for multiple turns such as Fighting Spirit.
-
Overheatless Nitori would still be kinda obscene... buuuuuut it's true that it's massive damage boost really increases the problem, so it's removal would help a lot. (Replacing it with Fighting Spirit wouldn't exactly help though, considering that she's still, yes, ridiculously durable and strong from maintennance :VV)
I mean, I guess anyone with 2 scourges would have pretty obscene attack, so it's not purely her fault she's been a monster in my current game... XDD (Although, yes, goddamn nitori with 2 scourges wiping everything off the face of the earth. Maribel -still- is better at randoms than her though)
I'm still hoping that Koishi gets Kinship Boost (I still can't fathom why she doesn't have it), and that Suwako's Earth Creation is eventually changed (why would I want to place Suwako in the tank slot??)
The entire point of the skill is to showcase Suwako's unorthodox nature- and it's not really that crazy, because Suwako is supposed to be the kind of character to swap in and immediately swap out after dropping a nuke. Her awakening only further enforces this; even in Plus if you pump HP for durability, she wants to swap back out to charge her double damage passive. And her other passive fullheals her on swapout. So, yeah. :V She's intended to be put in that slot for as little time as physically possible, at which point it starts to make sense. Stacking damage boosts on glass cannons gets pretty insane...
Re:Subclass nerfs, in the end, they're only supposed to be supplementary skills, so while I don't think there's really any need to increase their mp cost so drastically, it's sort of whatever. I don't have the Dragon Breath class yet but it sounded like it's formula was obscenely huge before, but losing 40% damage also sounds pretty crazy...
Oomph, there's a lot of new move testing and wiki updating to do! Wind God Fan, Man of Qi Worries about the Earth, Super Scope, Dragon Breath, Kokoro mask power... and all the new passive skill tweaks. I'm holding off on updating to the new version until the translation patch is ported, though.
-
I do agree Fighting Spirit could still be problematic so having no additional damage increasing skill might be the best option. With Cold Damage+, Nitori's Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall is slightly weaker than Miko's Halo of the Guse Kannon at full buffs with neither of them using awakening skills against 100 cold/spirit affinity enemies that have non-existent defense/mind stats, assuming they're at the same level and library investment while both using 3x 800% stat equipment and tokugawa statues. Of course it's not the ideal scenario since leveling rates are a thing and "optimal" equipment isn't the same benefit between attack and magic but I think it does at least make Nitori seem a bit more reasonable.
-
The entire point of the skill is to showcase Suwako's unorthodox nature- and it's not really that crazy, because Suwako is supposed to be the kind of character to swap in and immediately swap out after dropping a nuke. Her awakening only further enforces this; even in Plus if you pump HP for durability, she wants to swap back out to charge her double damage passive. And her other passive fullheals her on swapout. So, yeah. :V She's intended to be put in that slot for as little time as physically possible, at which point it starts to make sense. Stacking damage boosts on glass cannons gets pretty insane...
The problem is, "glass cannon swapping" doesn't really work all that well past level 1000 or so. At that point, you just want to have your characters sit there and fire away, since speed bars charge so fast that you lose much more time swapping than you would pre-PD content. Mind you, Suwako's dmg is prolly still competitive even without those boosts, but it still sorta saddens me how they become completely useless in the lategame...
-
Okay, that's a fair criticism. Swapping doesn't work that well when characters get over 2k atb in one go. That kind of breaks Suwako in general, though; even if her damage is stellar, she's not exactly a great stay-in-attacker option. Once I reach that point there'll be no reason not to use Akyuu over Rinnosuke...
IIRC someone said 3peso was bothered by speed scaling as well, but it's hard to fix at this point. The only way that's realistic for game content that's already been released, is to just throttle the effect of the Speed stat so ATB doesn't scale up as fast. So long as enemies work off the same spd value and not a plain dev-friendly "this many ticks per turn", it would globally reduce everything's SPD and there'd be no pain. Speed buffs might need to be tweaked to work directly off ATB, though, if they don't already. Otherwise it's a SPD buff nerf too, but that might not be that terrible.
Late infinite corridor would still reach obscene speed values, probably, but there's nothing to do about that. Only a static speed stat like how Evasion works could avoid such an outcome, and that's a "if there's a next game" tier suggestion.
As an aside, I've updated the first two character pages in the wiki with the new passives and slightly tweaked reviews. I'm not 100% sure where/how Cirno and Rumia's new awakening buffs are in, so I just mentioned them in the review.
-
The problem is, "glass cannon swapping" doesn't really work all that well past level 1000 or so. At that point, you just want to have your characters sit there and fire away, since speed bars charge so fast that you lose much more time swapping than you would pre-PD content. Mind you, Suwako's dmg is prolly still competitive even without those boosts, but it still sorta saddens me how they become completely useless in the lategame...
Glass cannons don't work out, but with some defensive investment to take a hit Suwako should be able to sit on the leftmost slot for bosses that don't have superpower attacks. As long as she can take one hit and you have an Instant Attack character, she can be switched in and out to refresh her HP with minimal ATB loss. Rumia doesn't have much more HP than Suwako, and I don't have any issues with her tanking 2-3 hits from most single-target attacks, so Suwako should be able to do something similar. I'm considering trying that out with her because of her +30% NTR damage skill making her great support with Tenshi, but Suwako doesn't really have anything to offer for support besides that, so I think it might just be more impractical than what I'm already doing. This would mainly be useful for bosses with no weakness, since if I wanted a second attacker for NTR weak bosses I could just use Satori. Suwako is only 30% compared to Satori's 24%, and Satori can buff herself and/or Tenshi with Iku's Thundercloud Stickleback.
Of course, if you build Suwako with a split in offense and defense in order to take advantage of Ability to Create Earth, then you're losing damage either way (although you're probably gaining more damage this way). The only really practical way to wring out the maximum amount of damage Suwako can output is to take advantage of Kero Kero Hibernation and only switch Suwako in when it's safe, like after a ~2500 delay attack, while other characters do the primary damage output. Which amusingly fits her role in the Moriya group rather well.
Okay, that's a fair criticism. Swapping doesn't work that well when characters get over 2k atb in one go. That kind of breaks Suwako in general, though; even if her damage is stellar, she's not exactly a great stay-in-attacker option. Once I reach that point there'll be no reason not to use Akyuu over Rinnosuke...
Which reminds me, here's how ATB accumulation currently looks. Level 1,123 Tenshi w/ 1,200 library level, SPD Second Boost, and Tokugawa Statue with no other SPD investment gets 1,501 ATB per tick (2,147 with 100% SPD buff). Tenshi's around bottom 5 for SPD, only characters like Patchouli, Yuuka, and Yuyuko are slower. Level 1,191 Rumia with the same conditions gets 1,738 ATB per tick. Max SPD in level bonuses on level 1,191 Akyuu with 1x Machine God Lucifer (otherwise the same conditions as above) gets 2,603 ATB per tick. Level 1152 Iku with the same conditions as Akyuu gets 2,915 ATB per tick. Level 1,137 Aya with 3x Long Sword "Ringil", Mega SPD Boost, and max SPD buff gets 4,819 ATB per tick. ATB accumulation at this point in the game is roughly twice as fast as it was back in the level 540 range, where Tenshi had about 725-750 ATB per tick under the same circumstances (idr how much exactly). Basically, 1,500-2,000 ATB per tick is fairly normal.
Regarding the Awakening changes, Cirno's SPD debuff damage increase is on the skill Avenge the Tomboy, while Rumia's base MAG growth boost is on Youkai who Lurks in Darkness.
-
As an aside, I've updated the first two character pages in the wiki with the new passives and slightly tweaked reviews. I'm not 100% sure where/how Cirno and Rumia's new awakening buffs are in, so I just mentioned them in the review.
Just looked through it, Marisa's awakening passives got changed 2 patches ago, now Custom Mode gives a 25% damage bonus while Charge Mode can stack up to 25 but gives a 4% boost per stack instead.
-
Thanks, that change slipped by me! I also added Rumia/Cirno's abilities more correctly, assuming All-Covering Robe of Darkness grants 12 magic in one level and still maxes at one? I added a note that White Album powers up now, but I've been too lazy to apply the patch in a separate install and test data to see how much. Still curious about Kokoro's new mask power but not enough to overcome immense laziness. If it, say, doubled, she'd personally gain 50% stat boost from her masks... or tank and apply 20% debuffs to enemies. Her buffs/debuffs are actually large enough to possibly consider a Healer tank Kokoro.
I'll get to the other pages, uh, eventually. For now I'll explore 28F.
Re:People talking about Tank Komachi, I think Mokou blows her out of the water in postgame. 20% base regen, nearly the same HP after base stat tweaks, Sheer Force and an offense debuff, Fighting Spirit for 25% damage reduction and it doesn't wear off on swap out... she just does Komachi's job -better-. Also enables offensive Keine which I think should be pretty potent. I'd be running it if I didn't already have all my tank slots accounted for.
edit:Updated C.Page 7 with Kokoro and Akyuu's tweaks, still need numbers on Man of Qi and Kokoro masks. Character pages 3 through 6 still un-changed.
-
Thanks, that change slipped by me! I also added Rumia/Cirno's abilities more correctly, assuming All-Covering Robe of Darkness grants 12 magic in one level and still maxes at one? I added a note that White Album powers up now, but I've been too lazy to apply the patch in a separate install and test data to see how much. Still curious about Kokoro's new mask power but not enough to overcome immense laziness. If it, say, doubled, she'd personally gain 50% stat boost from her masks... or tank and apply 20% debuffs to enemies. Her buffs/debuffs are actually large enough to possibly consider a Healer tank Kokoro.
I'll get to the other pages, uh, eventually. For now I'll explore 28F.
Re:People talking about Tank Komachi, I think Mokou blows her out of the water in postgame. 20% base regen, nearly the same HP after base stat tweaks, Sheer Force and an offense debuff, Fighting Spirit for 25% damage reduction and it doesn't wear off on swap out... she just does Komachi's job -better-. Also enables offensive Keine which I think should be pretty potent. I'd be running it if I didn't already have all my tank slots accounted for.
Rumia's new MAG boost is in Youkai who Lurks in the Darkness (I got it wrong in the post from a few days ago), it grants a 1.2 boost per level. Cirno's new additional damage is an added effect of Avenge the Tomboy, her White Album now maxes at +70%DEF/MND, so I assume it should be 45%+5% per level.
I personally agree that Mokou is better, simply because in late PD a bunch of bosses like using extremely powerful single target nukes that are basically gonna kill your tank no matter what, so having Resurrection is nice. Sheer Force Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse is also not too shabby, the effect is small, but with its high infliction rate you can debuff some resistant bosses and Mokou is fast enough to stack it up, so its basically an easily maintained -10~20% ATK/MAG debuff.
-
I haven't really used Mokou in the late game, but I've never really had any problems with Komachi getting KO'd, except maybe (???)
man in a fundoshi's CLD form and Shredding Amnesieri's attack that depletes max HP, in the fight in which you fight all 3 of the deformed bosses
. Speaking of which, here's my clear on the man in a fundoshi
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFs1UJBQB2Q
-
Congrats on that! That leaves
***WINNER*** and King of Chaos
then?
-
And the Infinite Corridor bosses, though I probably won't be uploading videos of the easy ones.
-
Komachi does have one small trait going for her over her other fellow tanks, void resistance. I'm not sure how much it comes into play for surviving attacks that the others wouldn't but I think it could potentially give her a small niche to fill.
-
Something I've been thinking about is maybe buffing Komachi's Eddoko God of Death, even with a full ATK setup, she still dealt 0 damage to the
King of Chaos
, though the improved version managed to dealt about 1.5 million, which isn't that great but is still free damage; I feel like either buffing the skill itself, or buffing the strength of the counterattack on awakening would allow a bulky attacker setup Komachi to passively deal a decent amount of damage through the course of a fight.
-
Komachi does have one small trait going for her over her other fellow tanks, void resistance. I'm not sure how much it comes into play for surviving attacks that the others wouldn't but I think it could potentially give her a small niche to fill.
It's good, but Mokou's resurrection still trumps it pretty hard. Komachi just can't keep up in Plus Disk, although she's passable as a bulky attacker, and continues to function fine enough as an HP tank if you just really like her.
Completed updating Page 6 of the wiki and adjusting reviews slightly, and updated Page 2 with the helpful replies to my last post! Pages 3/4/5 remaining, but those have... more adjustments than the pages I've already done, and more characters in general >_>;;
edit:All pages done. I did not touch any of the reviews on page 3 today though. These are the only tweaks I didn't put in yet.
-Instant Attack now costs 1 TP to activate
-Extra Attack now only activates 2/3 as often for subclass spells, and repeated actions cost 1/2 of base MP instead of 0
-Damage formula estimates for Forbidden Fruits, Lavaeteinn
-
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zNuaclWmFx1MsbjHxNsjM6O3h7qal45K
Updated exe for 2.104a
-
It's good, but Mokou's resurrection still trumps it pretty hard. Komachi just can't keep up in Plus Disk, although she's passable as a bulky attacker, and continues to function fine enough as an HP tank if you just really like her.
Completed updating Page 6 of the wiki and adjusting reviews slightly, and updated Page 2 with the helpful replies to my last post! Pages 3/4/5 remaining, but those have... more adjustments than the pages I've already done, and more characters in general >_>;;
One last thing, in Yukari's awakening section, Yukari's Strengthened use of Shikigami's does actually give the ATB decrease when Chen/Ran are in the back too, so for awakened Yukari, it doesn't matter if Chen/Ran are on the front other than for Yakumo Family.
-
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zNuaclWmFx1MsbjHxNsjM6O3h7qal45K
Updated exe for 2.104a
yesssssss
I edited my post above because I finished Page 4 (even though I only meant to change Patch's skill from max lv2 to 3... augh), and with the new exe I can go test kokoro's masks. Only pages 3 and 5 aren't done okay did both but didn't update reviews on page 3. Added Yukari's tidbit. Man, that makes Yakumo team really good. Chen can also get stupidly high EVA from Ran's buff after awakening...
-
Sanae's Awakening MP recovery skill now restores 1 additional MP for every 2 frontline characters below half MP. So it's
Default, 1 character at half MP: 1 MP
2-3 characters at half MP: 2 MP
4 characters at half MP: 3 MP
A heavy nerf, but she's a good candidate for Dragon God's Power to compensate at least.
-
Also, regarding Aya's change, I made a mistake, it originally increased damage by 15%, not ATK. So it changed from 15% more damage per stack to 10% more ATK per stack.
In Reisen's case, the new resistance ignore is in addition to the original defence ignoring effect, so its a 20% chance to ignore defences and resistances (needs People of the Moon to be learned to procc the defence ignore, not sure if the resistance ignore requires it too, but the description seems to hint that it does).
Akyuu's revival skill also got its TP cost increased to 15 in this patch.
-
Worrisome Man of Qi appears to be about 170% ATK+MAG now. That's pretty good for a dual-elemental alltarget!
But unfortunately, Kokoro only seems to be getting about 28% buffs from her own masks. That means the mask effect went from ~8% to ~11%. Which is a buff, but, was hoping for a little more, y'know? It's a bit hard to tell because of RNG, but I tested it a lot of times. It's still not really enough to care, but Kokoro is at least more offensively viable now; if you charge up her Fighting Spirit she's legitimately alright, and she can build for any weakness. (Although when you aren't using Kagura Lion, she's still just kind of "This Is Fine", nothing special)
Also, I tweaked all those pages, and everything has been done save for review tweaks on page 3; all skills on page 3 were done except all instances of instant and extra attack.
-
If we're reporting bugs to 3peso, I think I just found one. Don't think I've seen it mentioned before, but I haven't followed these threads too closely.
If a character is defeated, they "respawn" with the same MP they had when they went into battle. So if Flandre starts at full MP, fires Levaetein, and dies, after the battle she'll have full MP again.
It's happening consistently with Flandre when I try to reproduce it, and I'm pretty sure I've noticed odd MP values before.
Another one: A character that survives a death attack (i.e. Guts) will still show the icon
https://i.imgur.com/ZWafiOR.png
-
Ah... I've finally hit the "Grind more" section. I need like 50 more levels to be "on par" for 100F Infinite Corridor (which seems to be a real boss enough to warrant it, or maybe it's just my fault for letting nitori die early), and the 28F boss seems
retarded difficult as well.
Well, I say that because the only reason it's difficult is when Dragon God changes colors it uses dragon whirlwind over and over and over without ticking until I die
which is like, AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG???
-
Yeah,
Ryujin-sama's color changes are "berserk" phases. It'll use Dragon God's Whirlwind 8 times before reverting to normal again. The delay is 9660. To cope with it, I used Elementalist Aya for huge WND damage reduction + Rumia for MT healing, but any MT healer can do it. It changes color at 80m HP, and every 20m HP afterwards, alternating between blue and red. For red, it instead uses Dragon God's Strength, a high power ST PHY attack that targets the leftmost slot. That one has higher delay and is only used 4 times, but it's just as dangerous as the Whirlwind, the damage is very high. If you're unable to manage the damage then you're losing 4 characters in this phase. While blue, it becomes weak to DRK, and while red, it becomes weak to NTR.
As for 100f Corridor boss, be sure to prepare for Time-Space Warp shenanigans! At ~80% HP it does Time-Space Warp followed by a high power MT VOI attack consecutively. It does it again at ~40% HP, but it seems other actions that are determined by HP take priority, so you may not have to deal with it if your damage output is good enough (weakness elements are FIR and NTR). It seems 1.104 reduced the level scaling of Corridor bosses, its level was formerly 600, but now it's 575. I ran a bunch of numbers to calculate how to survive its VOI attack, but they're based on the level 600 version so that's not too useful now. More or less, just stack as much HP and damage reduction as you can for the lower HP characters without VOI resistance.
-
Eirin's overhealing got me through the 28F boss nicely. She really is amazing. Almost none of my team can take the 100f VOI attack (decomposition breath I think?) so yeah, I still need some more levels on that end, but it'll be much easier to get them now.
-
Switching in mystia in infinite corridor seems to randomly crash the game for me. Happened twice now. I don't know what caused it so might be a bug.
-
Switching in mystia in infinite corridor seems to randomly crash the game for me. Happened twice now. I don't know what caused it so might be a bug.
Probably it's the change to Instant Attack which happened with the latest patch, something must've gone wrong with it I guess.
-
Yeah, it happened to me a few times too, so better not use Instant Attackers for now.
EDIT:
Did more testing. Seems that if you select an empty slot in the frontline then switch an Instant Attacker to that slot, the game will crash. It doesn't seem to crash if you select the character first and then the empty slot however.
-
Yeahh, Akyuu's library definitely makes up for her stats... I screenshotted and Tome of Reincarnate'd Rinnosuke (with all high boosts maxed), gave Akyuu the same equipment, only invested the money I got back from Rinnosuke's library (I was broke beforehand), and just the first-level boosts and 10 stat gems put -all- of her stats solidly ahead or equal to Rinnosuke; and she'll grow faster than him with further base stat ups and library.
Sure, using stat gems wasn't entirely fair, but it's not long before she could get lv2 boosts in all defensive stats anyway, wheras he can't afford many giga boosts. Also, her supportive moveset is sweet, I almost never used Rinnosuke's moveset other than Herbalist skills, and instead of first aid she just passively cures statuses automatically. And she has super resurrection! Welp. I'm looking forward to this. It's hard to decide what to subclass her with since her buffs don't activate Enhancer passives, kinda mixed between going Enhancer or Herbalist for buffs, or Elementalist for it's support and because I don't have one for buffs... also trying to decide whether I want Dragon God on Byakuren or an attacker like Futo. I put it on Futo, but at lv700 it's still expensive enough to starve her skill points. Maybe it should go on Meiling since she's so fast and lacks non-single-target moves?
Meanwhile, I had a 24 floor infinite corridor chain instead of 50 because I didn't realize my 7-star counter was low ;_; Whoops. Ah well, it doesn't really matter... average chest "!" amounts is definitely up when you get past 100f. That's satisfying to know, so when you get mega deep you can look forward to more good items. Although... I got 4 codexes of infinite wisdom for all my !!!! chests. Come onnnn. They aren't even -that- good... ;_; I even got one from a "!" chest. So much luck for something I'll just sell off ;_;
My last problem is just that I want to start using Awakened Youmu, but I'm really satisfied with my party overall (party = http://puu.sh/ACEpX.png ). I don't know where to put her in. I also haven't used Murakumo's Holy Blessing on anyone yet and I'm really not sure where to put it... I guess I'm getting to the point where burning extra mp from the frontline isn't really a problem, so I should just do it already.
-
I generally use Herbalist for Akyuu personally, alternate between Miare's Great Knowledge and Placebo Effect. When I have two attackers and neither can use Murakumo's Blessing, I give it to her so she can use World-Shaking Military Rule instead of Placebo Effect. Her MP is so high that she can afford that even without the MP recovery drain skill. I think Elementalist would normally be a waste because you only need to use it once every several turns (if you use it again at all), but if you want it for the damage reducing passive too, then that's another story.
For Dragon God's Power, due to the nerf to Dragon God's Breath, I think it's best suited for a support role, so more or less anyone that's already a support character that doesn't want additional options from Herbalist or Enhancer. Looking at your party composition, Iku, Maribel, and Rumia seem most suited for it, maybe Renko too. For Murakumo's Blessing, if you don't want to go through the hassle of switching it to your most suitable attacker for every boss fight, just put it on whoever's been your most reliable attacker I guess. Although you could put it on whoever you feel stands to gain the most from its subclass spells, Meiling and Miko already cover SPI effectively. The only thing the subclass spells could be useful for that I see in your party composition is having Iku ignore MND completely, but Miko already ignores 66% of an enemy's MND when paired with Futo, and there are no bosses with high enough DEF/MND for defense ignoring attacks to be relevant from here on out in the game.
-
About Mystia's Singing in the Silence: while the stat buff per stack seems to have increased (it seems to be around 7% now), the cap has also been reduced to 5 (previously it was 6). Additionally, Deaf to All but the Song's description is kinda misleading: it gives her 4 stacks as long as anyone is silenced, but the stack you get from that character being silenced is not counted into those 4, so the end result is that having 1 silenced factor gives her 4+1=5 stacks, maxing out the counter anyways.
-
The only thing the subclass spells could be useful for that I see in your party composition is having Iku ignore MND completely,
Suddenly I?m curious if Murakumos big damage boost can work on Iku?s normal attack...not sure, I?m at work and I?ll test later. MP drain Akyuu would be able to spam invincibility too, hmm... and I?ll add the Mystia info later.
Putting it on the most useful attacker per boss will probably become worthwhile once I start doing the harder 29f bosses.
I might just throw Dragon God on Byakuren since she?s out the most, although it?s not necessarily better than strategist... hmm. Rumia would appreciate the affinities and might use the attack occasionally, but I try not to leave her out often to die and lose Demarcation. My Maribel is an offensive beast paired with Enhancer Renko. She needs Transcendant to help one-shot as many trash enemies as possible, and Incantation makes her solid in bosses too.
Edit: It?s pretty much a straight upgrade for Rumia, so I?ll do that. Maybe I?ll use her new status attacks more! Thanks~
-
Wow, Murakumo does actually buff the basic Attack command. I never tested it since the skill specifies that it applies when the user uses a spell card that consumes MP. The Attack command is neither. That's probably an oversight? Regardless, that's interesting. Would probably stick with Warrior/Sorcerer for the basic Attack, but it's something.
I neglected to consider you might be using Maribel as an attacker, she might be a really good choice for Murakumo's Blessing as far as general usage goes since Liberated Abilities is a VOI attack. I don't think any Plus Disk bosses resist VOI, but I never thought to check either. Thought Rumia might be a good pick for Dragon God's Power, I'd try that on her too, along with Sanae and Satori. Rumia quickly became one of my more liked characters post-Awakening, her EVA is high, she fully heals the party with mixed HP/MAG level bonuses and a buff or Akyuu's 50% Boost, she generally applies any status/debuff the boss is susceptible to on spare turns with low delays, and Moonlight Ray is one of the stronger MYS attacks in the game, having a damage formula and delay superior to Tenshi's World Creation Press. All that on top of one of the most common racial damage bonuses, for Human type enemies. Pretty great character overall.
-
Ah yeah, it only makes Ikus attack as good as Sorceror... interesting though. And Maribel deals top class damage with Renko out and Awakened Liberated Abilities. Annihilates randoms and complements Vision Sharing in bosses, so good.
I remember now that back when the info was datamined I theorized Sanae with Murakumo Blessing using Fafrotskies to blunt the mp drain passive and get mega mp regen for World Shaking Rule... she has a lot of nice bonuses compared to Byakuren tank.
-
So, does anybody remember how to get to this locked chest in 30F?
https://i.imgur.com/GtEmZBJ.png
Thanks in advance.
-
So the 9F Extra area was fixed with a teleporter, and of note there's actually *two* chests over there. I don't know if there was only one before this or not, but. I believe it's a War Mask of the Butcher and one of the basic EXP/Money/Drop rate items, not sure which.
-
So, does anybody remember how to get to this locked chest in 30F?
https://i.imgur.com/GtEmZBJ.png
Thanks in advance.
From entering that portion of 30f, travel to the red switch here (https://i.imgur.com/PZvipNB.png), then continue right and then up and to the left until you reach the blue switch here (https://i.imgur.com/I2VcRL3.png).
-
Wow, that... that was ridiculously easier than I thought. Thanks.
And I thought 3peso fixed the 3 deformed bosses on NG+? Cause I went back to my NG+ file, examined the time-space event on F16, beat the final boss again and no deformed trio. Unless of course they spawn somehow else and I missed it, which is entirely possible...
-
If you already started the NG+ before the fix it's probably too late. Already have the achievement, etc.
If another email gets sent to 3peso at some point, the biggest thing I'd suggest is either
1.A sound effect when walking in the Corridor with less than 10 steps until ejection
or
B.Max out the encounter rate when moving with 0 counter instead of ejecting, as if you're hitting M. The vengeful spirits are literally closing in!
Since the M key exists for engaging battles (and earning more counter) there's really no reason to ever get ejected by it hitting zero. But it's so easy to forget when you're traversing the place for over an hour at a time, resulting in a lot of potential 7-star loss.
It'd also be nice if there wasn't so many huge flashes for interacting with everything. It's slow and kind of uncomfortable visually after awhile. I have to turn away because all the repeated bright flashes tires out my eyes.
-
Well, then. This was surprisingly easy. I just beat
***WINNER*** @ lvl 1000 with an avg lvl of 1094
. He was... Really not that hard. The 29F bosses are harder by a fairly wide margin. I didn't record a video of it, but I guess I can record it when he's lvl 1200
.
-
Is there any good way to check enemies' def and mind? By check I mean seeing which defense is easier to go through.
-
Well, since the kedama farming point on 30f isn't hard to reach, I think before I even really explore I'm just gonna awaken Shou, put Chen in the party for reduced running TP cost, give Shou accuracy boost gear and Monk, and slot her in the front with a strategist for 70% chance to move first. And farm them kedamas at lv700. Once my level is sufficient I can give her appraiser and an angel slime hat and stop running, but yeah.
EDIT:With all dark fragments+backrow Chen, running takes 2tp. Shou can survive the attacks and kill kedamas with only lv200 library and eh equipment, and has great tp with ethos of bodybuilding and tp boost 1~ This works great. She even kills the kedamas with Physical Counter if she doesn't proc an instant move and they decide to use Space Compression. Edit again:Okay, now that Nitori and Miko just kind've annihilate the random junk, I swapped Chen for Aya who took Byakuren's spot in front. Even better~
And then I'll save every remaining floor of the Infinite Corridor to try to get a massive chain for dust stock. How high are the enemy levels on 250f?
Is there any good way to check enemies' def and mind? By check I mean seeing which defense is easier to go through.
Well, if you use a magic attack and then a physical one it should make it fairly clear :X Unless the enemy in question has so much you struggle to deal over 1 either way, but in those cases it's generally not a big difference either way. If that's the case, the testing method is the same, but you'd need to use either buff/debuff mix or an "ignores half defense" attack (mountain breaker, dazzling gold, sword of light, awakened orin, maybe a super drill, etc) but now varying offensive power starts to become a problem, or etcetcetc.
Generally if they're both mega high it doesn't really matter, you need an extreme measure either way and whether it's atk or mag isn't important.
-
And then I'll save every remaining floor of the Infinite Corridor to try to get a massive chain for dust stock. How high are the enemy levels on 250f?
At that point levels generally range around 1000.
-
Alright, so I can stop around 1100~1200 and be sure that the only risk is being an idiot and letting my 7-star counter time out. At lv900 my grind trip got 50 levels and didn't take long (I never swapped anyone) so that shouldn't be hard. Everything on 30f is weak to Extending Arm, Nitori's attack is insane, and she gets synergy boost off Aya... while appraiser Shou in Angel Slime Hat gets stupid high multipliers on the metallic kedamas. The fourth slot is just Maribel to give her more EXP XD
I don't like using Aya because she's so ridiculous, but it makes this grind so efficient it'd be wasteful -not- to put her in.
-
Well, then. This was surprisingly easy. I just beat ***WINNER*** @ lvl 1000 with an avg lvl of 1094
. He was... Really not that hard. The 29F bosses are harder by a fairly wide margin. I didn't record a video of it, but I guess I can record it when he's lvl 1200
.
Yeah, it makes me really concerned about endgame since both ***WINNER***
and the Corridor bosses are all fairly easy, and they're the only bosses with levels that are set to scale up with player progression. Unless they receive AI and stat adjustments toward/at the end of the level curve, I don't see a challenging endgame. ***WINNER***
was especially disappointing since his incarnation in the first game had all of his most dangerous moves available at will, while the current incarnation is locked into whatever spell book he has equipped, so his moveset is always limited. He also goes down way too quickly with weakness elements, think they're like 60-66 affinity. By default, his HP is fairly low, but targeting weakness makes him go down even faster. Tenshi can take off nearly 25% of his HP in one hit by targeting weakness.
-
Well, it's worth considering that based on previous challenge levels compared to boss level,
Winner
is probably supposed to be fought around lv950. While my Nitori did large hunks of his HP bar with super scope (Because her atk is literally double everyone else's and overheat+super scope is dumb), my other characters did pretty reasonable amounts of damage for a longer fight. If I hadn't had my front line overhealed for most of the fight, his attacks would have been very scary. Eirin feels kind of like cheating :V He nerfed healer, but honestly, it probably should have been Hourai Elixir-exclusive to begin with....
I think part of the problem is you can kill bosses faster than he anticipated in general if you use certain star attackers like Nitori or Iku-boosted Tenshi. Their attack values are obscene, and it's only compounded by favoritism with gems, library, and equipment. It's all the %age boosts... Tenshi can -double- her Attack value off her passives, and with base stat increases her attack is as high as anyone else.
-
Yeah, it makes me really concerned about endgame since both ***WINNER***
and the Corridor bosses are all fairly easy, and they're the only bosses with levels that are set to scale up with player progression. Unless they receive AI and stat adjustments toward/at the end of the level curve, I don't see a challenging endgame. ***WINNER***
was especially disappointing since his incarnation in the first game had all of his most dangerous moves available at will, while the current incarnation is locked into whatever spell book he has equipped, so his moveset is always limited. He also goes down way too quickly with weakness elements, think they're like 60-66 affinity. By default, his HP is fairly low, but targeting weakness makes him go down even faster. Tenshi can take off nearly 25% of his HP in one hit by targeting weakness.
I feel like making ***WINNER***'s moveset limited is nice since the fight will be less RNG, in the sense that you know what's coming depending on which spellbook he's using at the time. That said, currently his only dangerous moves are the Big Spells he charges up for when he's low on HP (in particular, he has what's basically an AoE version of Scourge), but as you said, depending on which forms he chooses, you can kill him before he even gets a chance to do so, this overall makes the fight too easy.
IMO, increasing his HP (as well as reducing his weaknesses on each form) and allowing him to use his Big Spells at any point in the fight would make it more challenging; the movesets themselves could also use a bit of a power boost (more dangerous AoE or status moves you need to actively watch out for, for example), he also sometimes wastes turns curing himself of status effects/debuffs when he isn't even inflicted with them. Maybe giving him a silght permanent all-stat increase as his HP reaches certain thresholds would also make it more challenging as the fight goes on.
-
Now that I think about it (with Aya's brokenness), you can safely trawl through Corridor forever once you reach the looping floors and have no bosses to worry about. Running only costs 3tp even without Chen after you get all the dark fragments, and Aya will instantly move first, every time. Two out of Rumia/Renko/Diva (or even all three) allows you to easily beat most floors with 0~2 battles, which you can absolutely fix with TP recovery prep floors. Hah.
You just have to not spend too much counter exploring the floor, since eventually you won't be able to win the fights. (Although Aya will let you do that for an awfully long time, too...) You can probably stockpile keys to generally be ready for all the 4~5 ! items, though, and you can do a few exchange events per floor safely.
-
Well, it's worth considering that based on previous challenge levels compared to boss level, Winner
is probably supposed to be fought around lv950.
Well, for reference, I recorded a fight with the level 1200 ***WINNER***
at Iku level 1080 (average party level is something like 1077, I ditched some party members due to the Time-Space Warp-like move), video is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJYYHkIitZ0&t=58s. Even before weakness Tenshi is ripping off 10% of the total HP per hit. I don't quite remember, but I think it has 440m HP? Admittedly, I haven't seen the MT Scourge
attack yet. The most dangerous one I've seen was Wrath of God
, which is just a really strong SPI MT attack. I saw the Time-Space Warp + HVY
attack, but the status can be resisted so it's nbd at all, and it has a higher than average delay too, something like 4000.
Granted, it probably does have to do with Tenshi just hitting that hard compared to what's expected, but I think a lot of characters can hit or exceed this level of damage output, like Nitori and Tokiko. It'd probably be easier to nerf this kind of firepower, but eh...
-
So, does anybody know how long
***WINNER***'s invuln lasts when he casts Globe of Invulnerability? To my knowledge, invuln in this game lasts 1 hit, but this lasted a lot longer. It lasted 8 hits, which is kind of arbitrary, unless I miscounted. I also counted his turns. It counted for 5 of his turns, which seems less random, but I'm still not sure.
-
Granted, it probably does have to do with Tenshi just hitting that hard compared to what's expected, but I think a lot of characters can hit or exceed this level of damage output, like Nitori and Tokiko. It'd probably be easier to nerf this kind of firepower, but eh...
It's an inevitable problem when he provides too many damage boosters... Tenshi is fine normally, and a bit on the intense side with Iku out. That's reasonable for a synergy. But then you use Murakumo's Blessing and start dealing 50% more ontop of that, and Akyuu amplifies it further, and then you hit a weakness ontop of that, before you know it your strongest attackers are doing 3+ times as much damage as is expected... which might be okay for a burst, but when you can sustain it for the entire fight, it's... bad. Ontop of that, Winner
is designed for a long-haul battle where he has enough time to pull out his scariest tricks, and his limelight gets cut so short he hardly does any of them.
It's basically the same thing that happened with Gambler in the original game, except made worse because original character balance gets screwed up when you can increase any base stat by 70... and because Murakumo doesn't make you fragile. It's supposed to annihilate your MP to use it, but in postgame you're given a bajillion MP so it doesn't matter. Whoops.
There's a lot of characters who can become pretty silly, so the best thing would probably be to do the same thing he did in the normal game, and pretty much double every boss's HP because he greatly underestimated things. (Yeah, if you weren't around that far back, the original release was the same way; all the bosses falling over far too easily.)
Although, I think King of Chaos is pretty fine as-is... @.@;;
-
tbh I was doing upwards of 25% of King of Chaos' HP with Tenshi too. Although, I think something might be going wrong there, because when I tried reverse calculating the damage done from my recorded run to figure out what kind of DEF King of Chaos had, somehow Tenshi was doing more damage than possible even with 0 DEF. I figured out with further testing that King of Chaos has about 4m DEF, but that just raises more questions about why Tenshi was hitting such high damage numbers. Under the most extreme circumstances (SPI weakness being 50, maximum damage variation of 1.1x), Tenshi's still hitting about 33% harder than she should by my math. World Creation Press was also doing similarly higher amounts of damage than it should've been doing. At first, I thought that Sanae's Youkai Buster was bugged and applied to Oni type enemies (Super Youkai Buster is 1.2 * 1.16 for 39% more damage, which would explain the discrepancy), but from testing it further, this turned out to not be the case. I've no idea what it could be that caused this. It's possible that if I tried testing it for other bosses, I would discover the numbers are higher than they ought to be as well. What I can confirm is that Tenshi's damage was normal on the King of Chaos when testing Direct Attack with no buffs outside of Girl of Bhava-agra, Strategist, and some small % DEF/MND for Courageous Sword, so those things aren't broken.
But anyway, that's reassuring that the original postgame was similarly imbalanced, since it means that the Plus Disk bosses also have a strong chance of being rebalanced. I won't worry about it then.
EDIT: Ah wait a second, I was testing Direct Attack with Murakumo's Blessing on, but that was before confirming that Murakumo's Blessing buffed Iku's Attack command, and by extension, should buff all Attack commands. I didn't account for that, which means King of Chaos' DEF should be even higher than 4m? That makes no sense though, that can't be right. I don't get it, the damage calculations I did were accurate prior to the 1.104 update.
-
So, does anybody know how long ***WINNER***'s invuln lasts when he casts Globe of Invulnerability? To my knowledge, invuln in this game lasts 1 hit, but this lasted a lot longer. It lasted 8 hits, which is kind of arbitrary, unless I miscounted. I also counted his turns. It counted for 5 of his turns, which seems less random, but I'm still not sure.
As far as I can tell, enemy invulnerability seems to work differently, it seems to only disappear naturally (not sure what the chance for it to disappear is). In Adol
's fight, it lasted a different amount of turns during 2 different runs.
-
I finally beat up ***WINNER***. I didn't end up grinding to maxed orbs on everyone like I thought I would, and I'm a little disappointed with how the attempt went since it was basically a Meiling/Patchy show damage wise, but oh well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7prnyoMeYBc&feature=youtu.be Dragon God's Power Kogasa is pretty fun, as it turns out.
As a side note, has Meiling's Healer and Reisen's Grand Patriot Elixir always had SFX? I swear I've never heard them before the new update.
-
The new Severing Flash seems to deal about 155% ATK, so about on par with Penetration. Not bad after Row Attack Enhance. That'll make some characters like Remilia easier to use in the base game, but anyone who'd been subbing Warrior has a new usable attack. Aya's Wind God Fan is now about 170% ATK, which makes using her offensively a more realistic option. 2mp blazingly fast Row Atk Enhanced fans is decent. Still crazier as support, but earlygame you just want some attacks. Meanwhile, Super Scope's gone from 625% to about 540%(?). I know it's expensive, but the cost really doesn't scale into postgame in a remotely balanced fashion... and finally, Suika's Throwing Atlas has gone to about 325% ATK. I think it was 360% before?
I'd put these on the wiki, but it seems to be broken at the moment. Well, later.
Also, King's down. Nice. I handled it a lot better knowing when certain things were going to happen and it wasn't so bad, actually. But having heard about stuff like Gaea's Rage and fullheals... *shudder* I'm just glad I finished it before those happened, since I know those would have been... well, a problem. >_> I'd been keeping people who resisted death and Akyuu's invincibility somewhere in the front row towards the end.
At this point I really only have the Infinite Corridor, and b11f gem grinding left until the next update. (Not that I'm planning on grinding a billion gems, but -some-.) Well, I've got 100 floors of corridor from 151 to 250 to try and chain together tomorrow, so that'll be a trip. I realllllly want to forge some Winner's Rags to replace a Scourge on Nitori and get her durability higher, so she's a little more like Miko's durability level. Maybe make a Tokugawa Statue after, I'd love to get two for Miko and Nitori. After the 29f boss gear, Miko's finally started to actually look like a maintenance user. Her slow levels and expensive library really actually make it look like a balanced skill... color me surprised.
Cut by a video showcasing endgame shenanigans Kogasa? I've gotta watch this, I was originally planning on running it but ended up not. I'm hype to see it in action. edit:The constant swapping looks pretty silly without using any Instant Attackers, but it's amusing to watch. The amount of time you spend "setting up" versus how often you attack seemed kinda strange, but I figure you were just playing it really safe for your attackers.
-
The amount of time you spend "setting up" versus how often you attack seemed kinda strange, but I figure you were just playing it really safe for your attackers.
It's my playstyle as I picked it up from playing LoT1. I'm not really sure how it stuck, and it's probably why I like Ran so much, but I enjoy playing really passively and setting everything up and then getting things going. It also lets me set up a safety bubble via Eirin on all of my attackers I know can't take certain hits. I know it's not optimal, but, I think I'm too lazy to go completely optimal on everything.
-
As a side note, has Meiling's Healer and Reisen's Grand Patriot Elixir always had SFX? I swear I've never heard them before the new update.
Dunno about Meiling, but Reisen's Elixir didn't have any SFX in 1.103, so that must be new.
-
Whew. Fully updated the wiki apart from the new instant attack and extra attack effectives, and formulas on Flandre's skills. (laziness) And the statuses for Kokoro's Four Humors Possession, I guess, but when the heck are you gonna use those anyway?
The subclass page took a bit of effort, but I did that too! ...and there's still no section on Dragon God or Winner
subclasses. Got delay info for Hourai Elixir, Magic Circuit, and the nerfed Murakumo Blessing
skills, in addition to all the damage formulas I mentioned in my last post. At this point I'm pretty sure everything is up to date and all formulas/delays included, apart from what's mentioned in this post.
edit:Okay, okay. Four Humours... it's Wind element for all cases. Debuffs listed are seperated from her passive skill that grants emotion debuffs on all attacks, but stack when appropriate.
Joy:MND+DEF Down (~27%)
Anger:Shock
Pathos:Silence (Extremely tiny duration- nonexistent)
Cheer:SPD Down (~17%)
Combined with her debuff-causing passive, the debuffing portion isn't so bad, but it sure is underwhelming unless the success rate is something crazy. The spell's pretty expensive and the effects are totally irrelevant in randoms because you have to concentrate (multiple times). Also lol at the Silence, did he forget some zeroes? I was testing on 16f enemies and it wore off in ONE TICK, as far as I can tell. It'd be cool if her awakening let her choose a starting mask, with a skill set a la Byakuren's "Pick your passive effect". She'd be vastly more useful in random battles, and convenient for bosses too. You could potentially leave her emotion swap skill off and concentrate without emotions changing, turning her fast-concentrate into just a quick turn move.
edit:I got lv1 kokoro and tried to test SIL on 3f enemies with lv1200 mari to check, and it still wore off instantly. I'm putting it on the wiki as SIL:1. :I Kokoro really feels like "I want to do this neat gimmicky thing but I don't know what I'm doing" the character.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAErriCldvI (spoilers)
And there you have it. Beat ***WINNER***
. And I forgot to include my stats in the first recording, so I just made a separate one.
-
edit:Okay, okay. Four Humours... it's Wind element for all cases. Debuffs listed are seperated from her passive skill that grants emotion debuffs on all attacks, but stack when appropriate.
Joy:MND+DEF Down (~27%)
Anger:Shock
Pathos:Silence (Extremely tiny duration- nonexistent)
Cheer:SPD Down (~17%)
Combined with her debuff-causing passive, the debuffing portion isn't so bad, but it sure is underwhelming unless the success rate is something crazy. The spell's pretty expensive and the effects are totally irrelevant in randoms because you have to concentrate (multiple times). Also lol at the Silence, did he forget some zeroes? I was testing on 16f enemies and it wore off in ONE TICK, as far as I can tell. It'd be cool if her awakening let her choose a starting mask, with a skill set a la Byakuren's "Pick your passive effect". She'd be vastly more useful in random battles, and convenient for bosses too. You could potentially leave her emotion swap skill off and concentrate without emotions changing, turning her fast-concentrate into just a quick turn move.
edit:I got lv1 kokoro and tried to test SIL on 3f enemies with lv1200 mari to check, and it still wore off instantly. I'm putting it on the wiki as SIL:1. :I Kokoro really feels like "I want to do this neat gimmicky thing but I don't know what I'm doing" the character.
Seems like the SIL is around 100, so yeah, it definitely feels like there are a few zeroes missing there. Interestingly enough, according to the japanes wiki, the mask stat changes work on the backline as well, so at least you can give them a very useful 10% SPD boost so that they regen faster! (sarcasm).
-
It's neat to see everyone's parties in action; unlike LoT1, where characters were rather samey, there's so much variety to be had here. All these setups are so different from eachother, and entirely different from mine. Maybe I should record my second winner fight.
In Kokoro's defense, she has a built in 28% stat boost that most people need a synergy to obtain, and her library cost is in the lowest tier (barring Akyuu) which is very good in endgame. And she can use any subclass attacks, whether atk or mag, so she excels at hitting weakness. Buuut, she also boosts the enemy attack stats by 11% to get it... and a lot of attackers can achieve her damage while bringing more to the table and less hassle.
-
I'm uploading a fight against
Fundoshi Man
now. Of note that fight does a much better job of showing off Kogasa, though it's still not as neat as with Instant Attack users.
I think Dragon God's Power
may be bugged in regards to the ailment cure. First off, it cures debuffs, which I don't know if it's supposed to, and secondly, *every* instance of an ailment being present except for two times in a thirty use test of Curse of Vlad Tepes, it was cured on the first turn taken after infliction. I don't think I'm unbelievably lucky to have it work every time off recording and on recording for that fight, so I think something's up.
EDIT: I also didn't think of the possibility of the boss attack used perhaps making everything wear off as soon as a turn is taken, but that seems *really* unlikely to me.
-
Well, if you use a magic attack and then a physical one it should make it fairly clear :X Unless the enemy in question has so much you struggle to deal over 1 either way, but in those cases it's generally not a big difference either way. If that's the case, the testing method is the same, but you'd need to use either buff/debuff mix or an "ignores half defense" attack (mountain breaker, dazzling gold, sword of light, awakened orin, maybe a super drill, etc) but now varying offensive power starts to become a problem, or etcetcetc.
Generally if they're both mega high it doesn't really matter, you need an extreme measure either way and whether it's atk or mag isn't important.
Thanks! I was figuring out a grinding team for floor 29-30. I need something that is not Okuu or Orin to grind (yes, I use the earth spirit party except satori).
Grinding seems to be the most efficient when you can 1st turn one shot mobs without using Aya, so I still grind at 28. But when you're 400 levels above the mobs you're farming, it just doesn't feel right.
-
Oh, something I just noticed is that Main Character: Reimu no longer buffs her ACC and EVA. This means that now the only way to boost those stats is through Ran's Ability to use Shikigamis on Chen.
-
Thanks! I was figuring out a grinding team for floor 29-30. I need something that is not Okuu or Orin to grind (yes, I use the earth spirit party except satori).
Grinding seems to be the most efficient when you can 1st turn one shot mobs without using Aya, so I still grind at 28. But when you're 400 levels above the mobs you're farming, it just doesn't feel right.
Earth Spirits team is pretty great in endgame after awakening... I think. Even Satori should be good when you're running the rest of the team, because in endgame def/mnd isn't nearly as important as HP (plus you can potentially tweak them up). She should actually be able to take hits, now. Same goes for the previously fragile Orin, and Utsuho finally makes the jump to durable, and their awakenings rock... Earth Spirits is a lot better in endgame than normal game.
If you're got 30F unlocked, you absolutely want to farm metallic kedamas. This will require Aya, but you'll gain so much more EXP it's worth your while. It's also worth your while to awaken Shou (you can have extra awakenings easily now) and use Appraiser Shou's Radiant Treasure Gun to do it, since she'll ~double kedama exp and they have so little HP she requires basically no investment other than TP and accuracy. Aya/-attacker-/-attacker-/Shou more or less. At this point you probably want to use the "Favorites" party settings to make a farming party and normal party setup you can easily swap between. There's no gems on 30F, but it doesn't matter, since you'll gain enough levels you can grind on B11F later for gems. 30F drops adamantite and orichalcum for the best equipment anyway.
Bonus points if you give Aya Dragon God
for the party mp regen. Everything is deathly weak to NTR on 30F, which might influence your choice of two attackers to go with Aya and Shou. If you don't have a good NTR option, they're all weak to WND, just less so- and 3/4 are weak to CLD or FIR each. You -can- do it without awakened Shou, but it'll really slow things down, and you can't really get the metallic kedamas without Aya until you're massively overleveled, which is the main source of the exp.
When you move on to B11F, everything is deathly weak to SPI, and nearly all are weak to PHY to a lesser amount. Half is weak to FIR, the other half does not resist. Many of the battles will only have a single target; the special subclasses can potentially let anyone do it with their single-target SPI skills. You might want to put Rinnosuke in front and Nazrin in back for here because you're really just grinding for gems, but once you can speedily finish battles the EXP is still decent. It's not easy to one-shot things here; plan to use atk/mag buffs before attackers move and Akyuu or herb of awakening for Boost. You'll probably want lv1200+, but it's easy to reach off Metallic Kedamas.
EDIT:It would be helpful to actually point out the parts of 30F swarming in metal kedamas, huh... hah. I personally used the bottom right since I hadn't even finished the floor yet, so I don't know if one is better than the other, but there sure was a lot of them around. Use the "attachment link".
There are a few spots where it spawns, one of them is the place where the switch to unlock the f29 rocks was and there's another one in one of the squares on the southeast of the map. They are ridiculously fast, have very high EVA, very high defences and are weak to DTH.
[attach=1]
-
Interestingly enough, according to the japanes wiki, the mask stat changes work on the backline as well, so at least you can give them a very useful 10% SPD boost so that they regen faster! (sarcasm).
I think that's saying that it works while Kokoro is in the backline. It's a little vaguely worded. Makes a lot more sense to work that way, anyway.
-
Huh. If Kokoro's mask works properly from the backline, then she would... ACTUALLY be useful. That's something to test. 11% offense boost from backlines ain't half bad. Her awakening halves the debuffs to a trivial amount, and being a fairly good attacker would just be her side-benefit.
Meanwhile, I'm 43 floors into my Corridor dive... Aya is pretty much necessary if you want to do this, because otherwise a single battle in a Risky floor can potentially kill you before you get to move, wasting most of your effort over the last 1~2 hours. Especially due to enemies like Rafflesia that can Explode and one-shot the party. Since you can farm gems on b11f at a good pace, there's little reason to spend amulets on any chest below 3 or 4 !s during a trip like this, as the whole goal is dust stock; and you'll get more than enough keys for all 4 and 5 ! chests, so amulets are exclusively for exchanging for dust/remnants. It takes roughly 50 floors to accumulate enough dust for the best items; I'm at 12k at 43 floors. I have 12 keys too, so I really may as well start using them on 3 ! chests.
What the heck do Fever floors do, exactly? Lucky floors boost exp/money (the encounters barely give a decent amount with a 200% boost at proper level anyway, though...) and Risky floors boost level and something else, but I'm not sure what Fever floors are for.
edit:The floor immedately after I bought my first Tokugawa Statue... YESSSS
(http://puu.sh/AE1im.png)
-
Kokoro's mask buffs sound useful on paper if they work from the backline, but thinking about it more, I think that the increases on the enemy side outweigh the increases on the player side. Would rather use Maribel for that kind of thing.
Fever Floors boost "rare enemy" encounter rates, but I have no idea what rare enemies are supposed to be in the Corridor. For all I know, they're the "missing" enemies that I've never seen that are in the game's files. If I had to guess, they're the powerful enemies that have the best drop rates for the Corridor exclusive items, like the Mirror and Magatama palette swaps.
-
I think that's saying that it works while Kokoro is in the backline. It's a little vaguely worded. Makes a lot more sense to work that way, anyway.
According to this line, it simply applies its effects to backline characters: 「感情の面・楽」の敏捷上昇は後衛のキャラにも効果があるため、パーティ全体のMP回復速度を微増させられる。
-
Fever Floors boost "rare enemy" encounter rates, but I have no idea what rare enemies are supposed to be in the Corridor. For all I know, they're the "missing" enemies that I've never seen that are in the game's files. If I had to guess, they're the powerful enemies that have the best drop rates for the Corridor exclusive items, like the Mirror and Magatama palette swaps.
That's probably the case. That's good if you want to farm black holes, which are a critical ingredient for some of the best equipment, and rather expensive to purchase directly. The missing enemies are probably saved for deeper in, although I wouldn't be able to say.
Also, yeah, buffing the enemy's attack and magic is pretty bad... it's too bad her awakening doesn't decrease the enemy buffs by half as well.
Using my keys on !!! chests whilst I have a surplus has been pretty good, I've gotten multi-jewel drops, orichalcum/adamantite, and even an iron man's headband. They do give useless equipment a large amount of the time, though. Just hit 200f, 50 more floors to go! (I started at 150)
-
According to this line, it simply applies its effects to backline characters: 「感情の面・楽」の敏捷上昇は後衛のキャラにも効果があるため、パーティ全体のMP回復速度を微増させられる。
Oh I see, I was reading a different line entirely, in the notes to the right of the skill effect, which says "後衛にも効果がある". something like "There is also an effect in the rear guard". That line you quoted for it provides much more clarity on the nature of the effect. That is fairly useless then.
-
Ugh, I'm an idiot... I didn't realize I didn't actually get much counter from a battle, and let my 7-star counter run out. Thankfully I had already spent nearly all my dust on the statue by now anyway, so it's not a big deal, but the 100 floor trip was pretty hype, and I was looking forward to just stocking all the dust I had in the end.
For science purposes; I gained 762 Dust Stock off my ~3031 dust, after 51~52 floors. It seems it's not a 1-1 ratio, because that's only 25 percent! I guess it's good that I didn't just hit 100 floors and expect to stock 100% of my dust. That's important for future people to know, as well. I wonder if it simply maxes at 25%, or just heavily prorates?
-
Ugh, I'm an idiot... I didn't realize I didn't actually get much counter from a battle, and let my 7-star counter run out. Thankfully I had already spent nearly all my dust on the statue by now anyway, so it's not a big deal, but the 100 floor trip was pretty hype, and I was looking forward to just stocking all the dust I had in the end.
For science purposes; I gained 762 Dust Stock off my ~3031 dust, after 51~52 floors. It seems it's not a 1-1 ratio, because that's only 25 percent! I guess it's good that I didn't just hit 100 floors and expect to stock 100% of my dust. That's important for future people to know, as well. I wonder if it simply maxes at 25%, or just heavily prorates?
I believe it does max out at 25%, since I did about 60 floors and only recovered 500 dust out of the original 2000 or so I had.
-
My friend was interested, but apparently ThLaby1 doesn't run on Windows 10; the wiki says it won't work on version 1709 or later. Is there anything to be done about this? I'm not on Win10 so I can't really test.
Meanwhile, got to 250f and secured my Machine God Lucifer. Equipment farming is done and so is everything in general, apart from gem farming if I feel like it later. Time to watch for the next patch.
-
My friend was interested, but apparently ThLaby1 doesn't run on Windows 10; the wiki says it won't work on version 1709 or later. Is there anything to be done about this? I'm not on Win10 so I can't really test.
I'm just on windows 7 and it hasn't worked for me for years. You could try telling 3peso. He might just need to recompile it on a modern system.
-
I'm just on windows 7 and it hasn't worked for me for years. You could try telling 3peso. He might just need to recompile it on a modern system.
Strange. I am also using Windows 7 and everything works fine for me here. I can't say the same about Windows 10 because I stick with 7. What kind of error do you have? Can you attach the screenshot of error message?
Edit: Just wanted to add that I found that most such errors can be solved by manually installing old versions of DirectX (5, 6, etc.). It will add the missing files which are needed for compatibility with a lot of old games. It won't actually downgrade DirectX or something if you are worried about it.
-
Strange. I am also using Windows 7 and everything works fine for me here. I can't say the same about Windows 10 because I stick with 7. What kind of error do you have? Can you attach the screenshot of error message?
Edit: Just wanted to add that I found that most such errors can be solved by manually installing old versions of DirectX (5, 6, etc.). It will add the missing files which are needed for compatibility with a lot of old games. It won't actually downgrade DirectX or something if you are worried about it.
https://i.imgur.com/wA7leCv.png
It's perfectly possible I broke it myself by doing some weird assembly hack on it. I can't think of anything I might've been working on that wouldn't have gone into the latest patch.
-
https://i.imgur.com/wA7leCv.png
It's perfectly possible I broke it myself by doing some weird assembly hack on it. I can't think of anything I might've been working on that wouldn't have gone into the latest patch.
Seems that it could be the reason, I think it can be easily checked by launching Lab from fresh installation?
Edit: It seems that one of translation patch versions had compatibility issues, so it might also be it.
-
As for me, it asks me whether or not I want to play it in Fullscreen, and after I choose, nothing happens. It's running according to the task manager, but nothing pops up. EDIT: To clarify, that happens on both the Japanese executable as well as the translated one.
-
As for me, it asks me whether or not I want to play it in Fullscreen, and after I choose, nothing happens. It's running according to the task manager, but nothing pops up. EDIT: To clarify, that happens on both the Japanese executable as well as the translated one.
By the way, it doesn't work for me in FullScreen, but it works in Window.
Just to make sure it isn't the problem - do you have special visual effects / desktop composition (Aero, support of widgets, etc.) disabled?
-
As far as I know, Aero and widgets aren't there in Win 10. And it doesn't work in Fullscreen nor Windowed mode for me.
-
I get the sometimes not actually doing anything after selecting fullscreen or windowed but then i delete it from task manager and keep retrying and eventually it works. The worst issue I have with playing it on Win 10 is that if I play fullscreen if the window gets minimized at any point it'll crash upon re-selecting it.
Persistence might be the key here if you're getting the dialogue box but not the game. Keep starting it up and deleting the ones that don't start. It sometimes takes up to 5 tries for me.
-
In my experience with W10 and LoT1, if I hit the "Start Game" button too quickly it'll always end up only in task manager, but if I wait some seconds before trying it always opens for me. After the first successful open it'll always work until I shutdown. I haven't had any issues with the game after it's open.
-
I've been farming infinity dungeon chests on floor 81 to get my gear in order and to collect gems and books on the side . Maybe it's just me but 2! chests have suspiciously good loot. Just in the last couple days, only running 1-2 hours at a time, I've gotten Adamantite, Tokugawa, Scourge, Otherworldly Black hole, and Medicine of Life from them. I think I also got an Iron Man's Headband from one but that was before I started recording my drops. Compared to 4! and 5! chests which I have not gotten anything good; Ribbons, low infinity gem counts and blue crystal rod. It's kind of disappointing but I hope it's just because I haven't found very many of them yet. I actually got two 5! chests in one floor right next to each other but lost one to the instant attacker crash and the other one had a Ribbon. Do higher ! chests become more common if you chain lots of floors together?
-
I've gotten a Flower Blade Kikuryusei and a Codex of Ultimate Wisdom from a Single-! chest, it's just very unlikely. Ribbons seem to be a top-rarity item as far as I can tell, though, as I've gotten one or two from high quality chests. I can see why they would be considered such, even if I rarely would actually want to put one on.
Similarly, at first I was going "ugh, more quartz charms from this !!!!! chest?", but once you hit endgame, your massively inflated library levels makes equipment bonuses less drastic and that flat 20% bonus starts looking pretty good. I ended up putting a Quartz Charm on all my tanks other than Renko and I'm pretttttty sure it was the correct decision, and honestly I'm starting to think maybe I should put them on attackers too? Regalias are obviously insane, though, and ideally you probably want one on everyone who isn't a dedicated nuker... they pretty much monopolize your adamantite/orichalcum.
I wouldn't worry too much about farming infinity chests. After 100f the average chest quality rises a noticeable amount, enemy levels increase at a slower rate, and you're gonna have 150 more floors to explore anyway. Second, you'll get a ton of stat gems farming b11f later if you want them. Still, sounds like you've gotten some pretty sweet stuff, nice.
At minimum, the corridor has to extend to 600F unless he starts doing multiple abyssal touhou bosses at once... hrm. Well, we'll see how much future postgame has in store. There's still half of 30f and either half or three-quarters of b11f to go. Wasn't there Heavenly versions of Touhou bosses
in the game data? I suppose the other half of 30f could feature a whole new enemy set comprising the true end of game scaling, but we're running out of achievements and equipment slots for new things. They'd probably mostly feature jewel drops. If the all-mega-boosts achievement is realistic, the very final content (not counting infinite scaling bosses like winner) will be lv2000-ish, which isn't super unrealistic given it's not even hard to grind up to 1300 right now. Based off achievements, we can expect a TLB for b11f and True Dragon God
on 30f, along with whatever awaits at the bottom of the corridor. Hmm, a 650-floor corridor with lv2000 endgame means 250 level increase every 100 floors from here on out, which sounds very reasonable.
-
I hadn't thought to check until you mentioned it just now, but yeah, Quartz Charm is actually adding more damage than Scourge/Tupsimati now, at least checking Tenshi. About 6-7% more damage for her at level 1,123, ATK is at 1,830,082 with Quartz Charm and 2,001,418 with Scourge. Yeesh, Scourge doesn't even add 10% more ATK at this point.
Anyway, yeah, there are Heaven (天) versions of every Touhou character plus several Infinite Corridor enemies still in the game files
, along with the two achievements that can be seen but not acquired. One is clearly for the fight against True Dragon God
, and the other is certainly the one that rewards True Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi.
Though, confusingly, the unlock condition is to defeat a boss in 30f...so what is in B11f?
In addition to the visible achievements and the files in the game, from the remaining unattainable item names, there's Jewel of Judgement, "The One Ring", Liquid Metal Mind, and Will of Gensokyo, plus the two items from the achievements. First two should be Corridor bosses corresponding to Z Angband like The Serpent of Chaos and the Dark Lord, Liquid Metal Mind is a Dragon Quest reference, and Will of Gensokyo is...something. Super enhanced Yamata no Orochi reward, or related to the Infinite Corridor? There must be something at the end of the Corridor, but there must be something in B11f too.
For the 1.104 update, 3peso scaled the Corridor leveling rate down from 36 levels every 10 floors (or 3.6 levels every floor) to 34.5 (or 3.45 levels). This affected the entire Corridor, both the old and the new bosses. It's possible that in the 1.105 update, 3peso will scale the leveling rate down again. With 250f being 1,092 for the boss and the current leveling rate of 34.5, the 512f Corridor achievement will see enemy levels at around 1,995. Accounting only for additional Touhou bosses, the levels will be in the 2,200 range at the very end. Except for the Touhou bosses, all enemies are listed with a number associated with their floor number, even bosses, Corridor enemies begin with 99. This regrettably doesn't help any with determining the length of the Corridor because 99 is being used to refer to there being many floors, fitting for the "Infinite" Corridor. I would wager the Corridor ends at 999f or 1000f and eternally loops like it did on 101f and 251f, with a random boss at the end. If that's correct, then with the current leveling rate, 1000f would be level 3,679. Incidentally, Corridor enemies are further divided by numbers. The Corridor's special bosses are labeled as "99_11", while the missing enemies are "99_10". The Corridor enemies that aren't numbered in the files seem to be divided into 9 groups based on their item drop rates, with a couple miscellaneous ones mixed in. Maybe 99_10 are mid-bosses or maybe even F.O.E.s. Plus Disk didn't do anything with F.O.E.s. The 99_10 enemies include "Infinity Enforcer" and "Infinity Wise Man", palette swaps of Enforcer of Power and In Laquetti, but also "Infinity Black Dragon" and "Infinity Swimming Whale", palette swaps of Abyss Naga and Sky Whale.
This is more a trivia thing, but on 29f, the stone blockade that requires the defeat of the Deformed/Grotesque trio refers to them as 異空の者, "Beings of Another Dimension", seems to be the gist of it (異空間 is "unusual/other dimension"). 異空 is also the prefix for Corridor's materials. Maybe the Infinite Corridor is their native dimension? Perhaps they'll make more appearances in it. The 29f incarnation of the fight does away with their names in favor of もの, which is just 者 written in hiragana, suggesting they might be a race or something. Creepily, their 29f incarnations have Human added to their races...what does this mean for Rumia's Youkai's Knowledge?
-
Does he say somewhere that they are called
天 (Heaven) bosses
?
-
The enemy names on the files follow the usual [character name]の影 naming convention, but whereas Abyss bosses are [character name]の影・深淵, the Heaven versions are [character name]の影・天. There is no way to distinguish whether they're intended to be bosses or random encounters, been referring to them as bosses out of habit since the regular, Shadow, and Abyss Touhou character fights have all been boss fights.
-
Earth Spirits team is pretty great in endgame after awakening... I think. Even Satori should be good when you're running the rest of the team, because in endgame def/mnd isn't nearly as important as HP (plus you can potentially tweak them up). She should actually be able to take hits, now. Same goes for the previously fragile Orin, and Utsuho finally makes the jump to durable, and their awakenings rock... Earth Spirits is a lot better in endgame than normal game.
If you're got 30F unlocked, you absolutely want to farm metallic kedamas. This will require Aya, but you'll gain so much more EXP it's worth your while. It's also worth your while to awaken Shou (you can have extra awakenings easily now) and use Appraiser Shou's Radiant Treasure Gun to do it, since she'll ~double kedama exp and they have so little HP she requires basically no investment other than TP and accuracy. Aya/-attacker-/-attacker-/Shou more or less. At this point you probably want to use the "Favorites" party settings to make a farming party and normal party setup you can easily swap between. There's no gems on 30F, but it doesn't matter, since you'll gain enough levels you can grind on B11F later for gems. 30F drops adamantite and orichalcum for the best equipment anyway.
Bonus points if you give Aya Dragon God
for the party mp regen. Everything is deathly weak to NTR on 30F, which might influence your choice of two attackers to go with Aya and Shou. If you don't have a good NTR option, they're all weak to WND, just less so- and 3/4 are weak to CLD or FIR each. You -can- do it without awakened Shou, but it'll really slow things down, and you can't really get the metallic kedamas without Aya until you're massively overleveled, which is the main source of the exp.
When you move on to B11F, everything is deathly weak to SPI, and nearly all are weak to PHY to a lesser amount. Half is weak to FIR, the other half does not resist. Many of the battles will only have a single target; the special subclasses can potentially let anyone do it with their single-target SPI skills. You might want to put Rinnosuke in front and Nazrin in back for here because you're really just grinding for gems, but once you can speedily finish battles the EXP is still decent. It's not easy to one-shot things here; plan to use atk/mag buffs before attackers move and Akyuu or herb of awakening for Boost. You'll probably want lv1200+, but it's easy to reach off Metallic Kedamas.
EDIT:It would be helpful to actually point out the parts of 30F swarming in metal kedamas, huh... hah. I personally used the bottom right since I hadn't even finished the floor yet, so I don't know if one is better than the other, but there sure was a lot of them around. Use the "attachment link".
Just has the time to read and reply. As for Satori, I don't know what I would want her to do. I tried to put her in but she doesn't seem to fit in my team.
My battle plan involves having Okuu stay at the right side and spam skills, with Dragon god
Byakuren and strategist Keine (main swapper). Since Okuu cannot be swapped out for maximum dps, I have only one free slot to use, mostly occupied by either Renko, Merry or Eirin for speed buff and heals, with occasional Nitori, Kaguya, Reisen doing their thing. The rest 3 are Koishi, Orin and Kasen. If I put Satori in, I would have to take Kasen or Merry out. Taking out the former would take away my only stand-in physical attacker with 3 elements and the latter my only multi-target heal (with damage buff). If Satori is in, her job would most likely use either Byakuren or Okuu's spells and that would just add more magical fire, mystic, spirit and physical "physical" and a weak wind (skanda's leg), which this current team had them all covered. She has that extra damage for hitting weakness for the team, but Okuu and Orin are already blowing bosses away if they're weak to fire or mystic or physical. Earth spirit party's weakness is elemental variety and Satori is not helping the issue. If I'm wrong on anything, please go ahead and tell me!
As for metallic kedamas, I never get to kill them since they either ran away or dodged my attack and flee. Now I'll try that. I still don't like using Aya though, she just feels too good. That or I still remember the day when Diva Aya trivialized the game.
Quartz charm is getting better later in the game I think? Great for tanky attackers like Okuu or Kasen since it help them survive while still boosting the damage. I don't know how well it would fare with squishy nuker, however. Also, does maintenance boost the Quartz charm? If so, 40% damage dealt and -40% damage taken seems bonkers.
-
Though, confusingly, the unlock condition is to defeat a boss in 30f...so what is in B11f?
I think that B11F will probably Underground version of True Dragon God, just as in the case with Yamato no Orochi
.
Also, who knows, maybe B11F will have Shadow version of ***WINNER***, who can be defeated multiple times and become stronger and stronger as in LoT1
. And there will be Abyss version of ***WINNER***
in the end of Corridor.
-
Quartz charm is getting better later in the game I think? Great for tanky attackers like Okuu or Kasen since it help them survive while still boosting the damage. I don't know how well it would fare with squishy nuker, however. Also, does maintenance boost the Quartz charm? If so, 40% damage dealt and -40% damage taken seems bonkers.
Once you get far enough into the game, that 20% extra damage is better than what most offensive equipment can give you in terms of raw stats. Maintenance doesn't double unique/special effects like those of the Quartz Charm.
-
Earth spirit party's weakness is elemental variety and Satori is not helping the issue. If I'm wrong on anything, please go ahead and tell me!
As for metallic kedamas, I never get to kill them since they either ran away or dodged my attack and flee. Now I'll try that. I still don't like using Aya though, she just feels too good. That or I still remember the day when Diva Aya trivialized the game.
Also, does maintenance boost the Quartz charm? If so, 40% damage dealt and -40% damage taken seems bonkers.
Well, I suppose you could give her the special subclasses. It might seem like a "waste" due to spell copies, but it's not like she gets special bonuses on recollections; heck, they're lv0 instead of lv5! It comes down to whether you want further kinship boost or not. 60% weakness damage plus lv4 kinship (32% stat bonus) is... pretty intense damage potential, quite honestly! She regenerates massive MP on swap out at this point in the game, so after MP gems/boost the cost of even 20mp subclass skills is not remotely an issue. She's in a perfection stat position to use the composite nukes, quadra-elemental is perfect for her weakness bonus, and Winner
grants both SPI and DRK regardless of offensive stat while recollection covers the other elements.
I honestly don't like giving Byakuren Dragon God
because, while it buffs the front lines, she already does that perfectly fine so Strategist's buff decay is arguably -better-, and only Strategist grants the 10% passive damage boost! It gives attackers less decay for higher buff totals on their turns, and Byakuren's already topping everyone off regularly, plus it means you can double up on the damage reduction passives. The MP and healing bonuses make it a competitive choice and she does enjoy the affinity bonus, though, so it's still pretty effective. I'm still debating over giving it to her myself or not, now that my Rumia has a regalia and doesn't need the affinities that bad.
Metallic Kedamas pretty much require Aya. I don't like using her either, BUT, if it's literally just for grinding metal exp, all it's doing is saving me a boatload of time doing something that isn't even remotely hard. Same reason I awakened Shou even though I don't use her; she just makes the grinding sessions far more effective so I can finish way faster.
It's safe to assume Maintenance does not work on any special effects, as it hasn't in the past. It's just for the stat/affinity/resistance bonuses. God do they get a lot of affinity though, and what a boost off Tokugawa Statues... also yes I feel bad that I sold a Quartz Charm previously because now I want one for every party member other than my 3 maintennancers. I still have like 5, though, and they don't cost a bajillion dust like Tokugawa Statues. (Still takes about 20 floors to buy one, tho')
When you consider that 20% damage up can be better than even a Scourge, AND that it gives 20% damage reduced... well...
-
I completely forgot about the existence of Quartz Charms. I have nine of them, damn.
I can't wait to see how dumb 70% damage reduction Kogasa and 72% damage reduction Meiling are.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, if Strategist and Dragon God's Power
damage reduction stacks, that's 80%/82% respectively. I also forgot about Transcendent Meiling, so would that be 92%?
-
I completely forgot about the existence of Quartz Charms. I have nine of them, damn.
I can't wait to see how dumb 70% damage reduction Kogasa and 72% damage reduction Meiling are.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, if Strategist and Dragon God's Power
damage reduction stacks, that's 80%/82% respectively. I also forgot about Transcendent Meiling, so would that be 92%?
I'm pretty sure damage reduction/increase is not additive.
-
I'm pretty sure damage reduction/increase is not additive.
Considering that'd be a really bad idea, I probably should've thought of that first. And yeah, the numbers I'm getting definitely aren't as crazy as that. They're still pretty good though. I should find something somewhere that uses something like Scourge.
EDIT: Using only Kogasa, Meiling, Keine and Eirin I almost beat Level 1200 ***WINNER***
at level 800.
-
Libra mentioned that Quartz Charms don't stack so I tested in-game and determined that they really don't stack. That's a little surprising since there doesn't seem to be any indication that they wouldn't stack. Very useful to know that.
-
Oh good, so I only need 12 and not 24!
-
Oh, it seems that Quartz Charm's +20% bonus affects heals casted by the wearer too.
-
So, I started a NG+, just to see if you still get the achievements for the 3 deformed bosses, and apparently you still do. So I'm not exactly sure why my old NG+ save file is still bugged. Weird.
-
Well, I suppose you could give her the special subclasses. It might seem like a "waste" due to spell copies, but it's not like she gets special bonuses on recollections; heck, they're lv0 instead of lv5! It comes down to whether you want further kinship boost or not. 60% weakness damage plus lv4 kinship (32% stat bonus) is... pretty intense damage potential, quite honestly! She regenerates massive MP on swap out at this point in the game, so after MP gems/boost the cost of even 20mp subclass skills is not remotely an issue. She's in a perfection stat position to use the composite nukes, quadra-elemental is perfect for her weakness bonus, and Winner
grants both SPI and DRK regardless of offensive stat while recollection covers the other elements.
I honestly don't like giving Byakuren Dragon God
because, while it buffs the front lines, she already does that perfectly fine so Strategist's buff decay is arguably -better-, and only Strategist grants the 10% passive damage boost! It gives attackers less decay for higher buff totals on their turns, and Byakuren's already topping everyone off regularly, plus it means you can double up on the damage reduction passives. The MP and healing bonuses make it a competitive choice and she does enjoy the affinity bonus, though, so it's still pretty effective. I'm still debating over giving it to her myself or not, now that my Rumia has a regalia and doesn't need the affinities that bad.
Metallic Kedamas pretty much require Aya. I don't like using her either, BUT, if it's literally just for grinding metal exp, all it's doing is saving me a boatload of time doing something that isn't even remotely hard. Same reason I awakened Shou even though I don't use her; she just makes the grinding sessions far more effective so I can finish way faster.
I have Nitori on Winner
and Okuu on Murakumo's blessing
so I'm left with non-limited subclasses. But maybe Nitori on Winner
is a waste? I might give Satori a try but I still have to take Kasen out.
I put Byakuren on strategist for the MP regen and heal. It's great for the whole team, so yeah.
As for metallic kedama, thanks for the tip! It's great, raking in the XP like it was nothing. That thing seems to have huge defenses, however. My Suwako with 1.4m mag did 1 damage to it. So awakening Shou is necessary if we're using her to farm.
I seem to get only 3 types of mob for 30f. Should there be more?
-
There's only 4 enemies plus metal kedamas. edit:herpderp I am dum there's a few more... The upside is they're all weak to the same stuff so it's easier to farm. B11F probably only has as many enemy types as it does because it needed 1 enemy per gem/jewel type.
I was puzzled about who to give my special subs out to... I ended up dropping Winner
on Miko mostly for passive boosts, and tbh I'm not even using Murakumo Blessing
, I might put it on Nitori for grinding on b11f. When it comes to bosses, a neutral Super Scope under Transcendent will do more damage than subclass attacks hitting weakness, so it felt like kind of a waste. Futo mostly wants to use her innate skills anyway, and Meiling's Mountain Breaker is already busted with a SPI move on the side and useful monk stuff, and Maribel doesn't need anything past Liberated Abilities. Iku wants Sorc, Rumia gets big bonuses on her innate skills, and Eirin is mostly for overheals... ah well!
Kasen is a solid character, no doubt, so no pressure. Satori should do notably more damage on weakness hits (which she can nearly always cover with a special sub and recollections) and boost your kinships and other frontline weaknesses, but Kasen is notably more durable with Fighting Spirit, dragon buff, and guts.
edit:Hmmmm... Mokou... I might actually replace Futo with Mokou. Mokou can absolutely get +50% attack stat off Imperishable Shooting and still have the tp for multiple resurrections, regens 20% hp, and continued fighting spirit is really good both defensively and offensively. They're actually really similar characters since plates cause regen, damage up+down, endure death, etc. Mokou does things better I think, she just needs more move variety off Swordmaster or a special sub, but I think I'll do Swordmaster because Mokou's absolute max mp before equips is only 61. Plus, having Explosive Flame Sword is good with blazing, it's almost as strong as Volcano without the big delay. Wand of Destruction with sheer force does sound nifty, tho'... and she'll murder any remotely shk-vulnerable bosses with Shield Bash.
Futo is better at random battles but she's already just "backup damage" compared to Maribel/Nitori/Miko anyway so I really don't care.
-
I seem to get only 3 types of mob for 30f. Should there be more?
I counted 8 types (unless I misunderstood you) - that's in ver. 2.104, I didn't updated yet so maybe patch broke something, dunno:
1. Divinely Possessed Stone - 811 Lv.
2. World-Ruling Kedama - 766 Lv.
3. Avatar of Holiness - 777 Lv.
4. Heaven-Embracing Sphere - 820 Lv.
5. (Some Big Beast with name in Japanese) - 772 Lv.
6. (Skull Orb with name in Japanese) - 800 Lv.
7. (In Laquetti look alike with name in Japanese) - 788 Lv.
8. (Actual Metal Kedama with name in Japanese).
-
What skull orb?? Although yeah I'm dumb and forgot the 2 enemies -after- the kedama in the bestiary. If you still have some japanese names, you're not using the latest english patch. (There's not much else updated though, so, not a big difference)
-
What skull orb?? Although yeah I'm dumb and forgot the 2 enemies -after- the kedama in the bestiary. If you still have some japanese names, you're not using the latest english patch. (There's not much else updated though, so, not a big difference)
Hmmm. I think I had some error in my notes. Skull Orb was actually Metal Kedama, I am not sure why I named it as skull and separately from Kedama, perhaps I was sleepy. Sorry, I think is is my mistake.
Also I was not sure where to find Scarled Gold Avatar - https://i.imgur.com/8w1WsVo.png
. But eventually it appeared in Bestiary on its own. Perhaps I was sleepy when found it too, but can you tell me where this monster is actually in the game (on what floor, what event)? I am asking it for my proper completist playthrough in future.
-
Miko summons it in the 22f fight. Incidentally, one of the Corridor bosses,
Abyss Kasen
, summons enemies, but if you defeat them before they do so, the enemies are not recorded. Didn't find out about that until looking in the game files for enemy sprites.
-
They previously didn't get recorded when you defeated Miko before she summoned them, but that got patched recently, so they probably did appear without you actually encountering them.
-
Miko summons it in the 22f fight. Incidentally, one of the Corridor bosses, Abyss Kasen
, summons enemies, but if you defeat them before they do so, the enemies are not recorded. Didn't find out about that until looking in the game files for enemy sprites.
They previously didn't get recorded when you defeated Miko before she summoned them, but that got patched recently, so they probably did appear without you actually encountering them.
Ah I see. That seems to be the case.
-
Oh, it was a typo. I meant underground 11f. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I only find the monsters for attack, mag and TP gems.
-
Oh, it was a typo. I meant underground 11f. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I only find the monsters for attack, mag and TP gems.
The ATK/MAG/TP/HP ones can be found anywhere on the floor, but the others can only be found in the small area where the Red Rock blocking your way is.
-
The ATK/MAG/TP/HP ones can be found anywhere on the floor, but the others can only be found in the small area where the Red Rock blocking your way is.
The red rocks are for the next patch, right?
-
Yeah, currently they cannot be removed (note that you don't need to go past the rock to encounter the enemies, just the area where it is).
-
1.104 spoilers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMv1nTz60WI
Yeah, I don't think I'll be able to beat King of Chaos
. It's too difficult. Too much damage going out, and I'm dealing too little damage. Also, if I focus on him with Ame no Murakumo Slash with Nitori, I'm not dealing enough damage and his adds heal him to max, eventually. And if I focus on the adds, he'll do what happens in the video. I have no idea how to survive through that.
Perhaps I should tackle the Infinity Corridor bosses first? Maybe I should grind more? I dunno.
-
Your character level is fine, I did it at Iku 1152 (average level 1148) and library 1200. As far as strategy goes,
King of Chaos and its adds both use Ultimate Life after a set number of turns. King of Chaos also uses Ultimate Life at about 80% of its HP after getting both summons out. So no matter what you do, unless you can wipe out its HP completely before it can use Ultimate Life, you're going to see that used at least once. So the best thing you can do is take it down to the threshold and prepare to blitz it after Ultimate Life is used. King of Chaos' Gaea Rage is not supposed to be survived, you have to defeat it without seeing that used, which is after it performs a total of 6 summons, so after defeating 4 of the summons. I don't know if Ultimate Life revives the King of Chaos or not, but I don't think it does. It seems like something that could probably happen though.
If you can do 100m+ damage with Nitori's Murakumo Slash, then you should be fine on damage output. Boss has 666m HP, so you can comfortably defeat it with that level of damage. Nitori's ATK stat seems to be a bit low, I had 1.95m on Tenshi when I did the fight, using Tokugawa Statue + Magic Sword Chaos, Scourge, and the Corridor 250f boss drop, which was +800% ATK for 1.104 and is +999% ATK in 1.104a. Should probably give Nitori ATK Mega Boost and increase library levels to help out with the ATK to make it easier to exceed 100m+, maybe rearrange equipment a bit too. As it currently is, I'm guessing Nitori can't hit numbers that high, since Tenshi was hitting 130-180m for me with tons of ATK and damage multipliers in play. But with higher ATK you should be able to manage it with Overheat level 5.
As far as defensive equipment goes, it's pretty much Regalia + Medicine of Life + whatever. The boss damage output didn't seem so terrible to withstand, as long as you can beat it in a reasonable amount of time you shouldn't have anything to worry about for long-term. It uses a decent number of Row attacks so your rightmost slot takes surprisingly little damage.
As a reference, here's my run of the boss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hWt8ypiJ7I. It's 1.104 so it's pre-Murakumo Slash nerf, but it should be OK for Nitori. 1500 ATB can be acquired in a single tick, and there should be MP to spare for the increased MP cost if you use Tokugawa Statue. As long as you can hit 100m+ you should be fine.
-
I beat it, thanks to your guidance. Now all that remains is the Infinite Corridor bosses. Which ones did you guys think were the most interesting?
-
For reference, Ultimate Life does not revive the boss.
I beat it, thanks to your guidance. Now all that remains is the Infinite Corridor bosses. Which ones did you guys think were the most interesting?
Probably Mokou (revives and nukes you several times), Komachi (has a chance to counter all of your attacks with decent SPI damage) and maybe Aya (each time she evades, she gets stronger and even more evasive, so you need high ACC attacks).
-
For reference, Ultimate Life does not revive the boss.
Probably Mokou (revives and nukes you several times), Komachi (has a chance to counter all of your attacks with decent SPI damage) and maybe Aya (each time she evades, she gets stronger and even more evasive, so you need high ACC attacks).
By the way, speaking about ACC, is there any way to see this stat in game or it is hidden stat? I feel shame asking such question after reaching 30F :blush:
-
By the way, speaking about ACC, is there any way to see this stat in game or it is hidden stat? I feel shame asking such question after reaching 30F :blush:
As far as I understand, all characters have the exact same ACC, which is then modified by equipment, skills and which spellcard/attack you're using.
-
Alright, thank you for your input on Infinity Corridor bosses. Everybody else is free to add to it, of course.
And here's my clear on the King of Chaos
: https://youtu.be/kdSXiHKHXNQ
-
Hello! I'm new here. I played LoT1 a very long time ago and I decide to return to play it. I lost my original save but I have a older one at floor 18 on cloud. I already played a bit and beat the boss. Is still allowed to talk or this is only for LoT2?
-
Most of the IC bosses are plain. Those that aren't I didn't even get to see, because I overleveled for most of them in order to ensure I could streak through for enough star remnants to buy high-end equipment. I have a feeling most people have the same story.
-
Several of the bosses were kind of interesting while I was going through for awakenings (aka, powering through at equal or significantly lower level) but then I went for huge chains and just ended them in a few moves, so... yeah. It's unfortunate that the corridor design kind of encourages you to be overleveled and totally wipe the floor with them.
-
Most of the Abyss bosses after f100 are pretty weak honestly, they have too little HP so even if you're not overlevelled you're still gonna 2-3 shot them with a good attacker; they do each have their awakening gimmicks, but most of the time they don't really kick in before they're already dead (with exceptions like Mokou I guess).
-
Yeah, I didn't overlevel for any of them and none of the 110-250f bosses lasted 5 hits, even one-shotting
Abyss Chen and Abyss Aya
. It isn't just Tenshi being Tenshi either, Iku 3-shot Abyss Mystia
with the basic Attack command.
-
Iku is pretty nice with her mega counters; I use her more for buffing, but the difference between tanks and non-tanks gets a bit blurry once most of your stats come from the library and not equips, plus Quartz Charm pulls double duty, so she can get 25% hp levels and 75% magic and do fine. That, and her attacks ignore a ton of defenses so she doesn't mind to put on, say, a regalia and lose some magic. I had originally been planning to replace her at some point, but she earned a solid team spot.
If Komachi's counter was actually competent like Iku's she'd have good longevity offensively or defensively. As it is, her HP isn't all that special in endgame and lots other characters have regen with more relevant support abilities. Her awakening... boosts Avici in an offensive build and that's about it. I tried to make a list of underwhelming characters and honestly, she was the only character on it; even Wriggle has good offense after awakening and poison scales acceptably from what I've heard. (or team 9 tank, but that's very gimmick)
-
Wriggle's Poison still works pretty well in late Plus Disk, plus, as long as you have Reisen in your team her resistance reducing skills make it very easy to use Poison against anything that isn't straight up immune to it. I do feel that Wriggle's awakening isn't that good, the 25% extra defences don't matter that much at this point (unless you specifically went out of your way to min-max them or smt) and the damage increase on Nightbug Tornado is decent but nothing special (most characters can still outdamage her easily); you generally still just want to have her come out, use Comet on Earth and then have someone more useful replace her until you need to reapply Poison. I personally feel like her awakening could be buffed/changed to give some kind of benefit to the whole frontline (ie. all other frontliners get +10% damage dealt and -10% damage received vs PSN enemies), so there's actually a reason to have her constantly out (which seems like the intention behind her current awakening skills anyway).
-
Yeah, Wriggle's awakening could have a bit more oomph behind it. Her and Komachi were pretty much The List, although Nitori was on ther efor the opposite reason... those three, and giving lategame bosses more HP, were pretty much all the things I think I'd suggest. Along with maybe more speed throttling.
-
Just something interesting. Maybe I'm disgustingly lucky or something, but I just got a tokugawa statue from a !! chest. So those mediocre !! chests can definitely get you something great.
-
Just something interesting. Maybe I'm disgustingly lucky or something, but I just got a tokugawa statue from a !! chest. So those mediocre !! chests can definitely get you something great.
Same happened to me as well, ftr. Though I don't know the odds, it does happen.
-
I got a Scourge from a !! chest (iirc I might have even forced it open) and a Codex of Ultimate Wisdom from a !, but these results seem incredibly rare. It's possible, though. You don't really have a worthwhile chance at good stuff until !!! chests, which give out orichalcum/adamantite/iron man headbands at a not-super-rare chance. And then the higher chests for actual items.
Although all the gems, jewels, and passive item/money/drop rate boost stuff you get from mass-openings of ! and !! is good. If you're streaking floors at all they aren't worth spending amulets, though.
-
Is it ever necessary to go into the infinite corridor? I've been avoiding it because it's so dull (for me, at least). But now I'm on B10F and the enemies are getting kinda ridiculous. Am I going to be forced in there at some point anyway, e.g. from some "reach level xxx of the ID" rock?
-
Is it ever necessary to go into the infinite corridor? I've been avoiding it because it's so dull (for me, at least). But now I'm on B10F and the enemies are getting kinda ridiculous. Am I going to be forced in there at some point anyway, e.g. from some "reach level xxx of the ID" rock?
I don't think there are rocks which require you to have reached a certain floor of the IC so far, but without doing the IC you're giving up on stat tomes, awakening items, and most of the best main equips (like Tokugawa Statue) and sub equips (like Machine God Lucifer and others)
-
Is it ever necessary to go into the infinite corridor? I've been avoiding it because it's so dull (for me, at least). But now I'm on B10F and the enemies are getting kinda ridiculous. Am I going to be forced in there at some point anyway, e.g. from some "reach level xxx of the ID" rock?
There's a rock on 30F that requires going "deep" in the corridor. You can't reach whatever "deep" is in the current patch either so there's no way to know if it'll be necessary to reach the final boss.
-
Right now, no. But it's as Zero said. Plus, buying stat tomes is very effective. HP boost and atk/mag boosts make a significant difference (as HP boost grants 20 per level instead of 10), as does resistance/evasion/affinity/accuracy boosts; many later enemies have non-zero evasion, as far as I can tell, but Accuracy boost mostly nulls it out.
Most importantly, awakenings are very very good so you should probably do a little bit here and there to at least pick up the better ones for your team. If you take along some encounter rate reductions (rumia or renko subclassed as diva is sufficient) you'll almost never have to fight outside of your own terms making it a vastly smoother experience, and you can just do a small handful of floors until you're bored and leave. Although, it's a good idea to go for ~20 if it's not too boring, so you can pick up Quartz Charms from the shop, because it seems that endgame meta (past lv1000) is -everyone- should be equipping one since library stats start overtaking equipment bonuses. If you want to streak 20 floors just save infinity keys for !!!!~!!!!! chests and don't spend amulets on !~!! chests.
Also, if there's ever a second email sent to 3peso, I collected my concerns into a concise list.
-Bug:"Four Humors Possession" - Pathos' SIL effect is unusually small.
-Buff Ninja subclass; it's conditional effects are small considering Transcendant's always-active effects
-If realistic, throttle effect of high Speed stat.
-Revised Extra Attack has very poor interaction with Private Square.
-Komachi's HP is not special in endgame and awakening is poor; it should buff her unique counterattack. Defense piercing?
-Wriggle should increase PSN damage to foes when in front; there is little reason to keep her out
-Nitori's attack stat is ridiculous even without awakening. Either remove her Overheat, or nerf Maintennance to 50% bonus while leaving Miko's version alone.
-Some endgame bosses have too little HP, such as ***Winner*** and late infinite corridor bosses.
Kokoro is difficult to use.
-Buffing boss attack/magic is very bad; not worth offensive Kokoro
-Tank is possible, but performance is limited and forced to subclass Healer?
-Poor performance in random battles without a preemptive Mask effect
Possible suggestions
-Buff passive skills for reducing debuffs on allies, to also reduce buffs on foes?
-Skill to erase emotion mask for small team heal and large buff/debuff effect?
-Awakening passive skill to start battle with an emotion mask active?
-
About Nitori - I think Overheat is the problem. Now that my team is mostly "equalized" (same equip, gems, etc), the damage difference between Nitori and other powerful characters is not as huge. For example, Yukari's Shikigami + does almost the same damage as Megawatt Gun (with a MUCH shorter delay), and Kappa Waterfall is good but not busted. It's after 5 or so Overheats that Nitori's attacks (especially Waterfall) start feeling a bit too good. Though, frankly, I'm still in the field of those who think Nitori is fine now.
I fully agree with your points about Komachi, Kokoro, and Wriggle.
Finally, I think Koishi should finally get Kinship Boost. That's possibly the main thing holding me back from using Earth Palace Party.
-
-Some endgame bosses have too little HP, such as ***Winner*** and late infinite corridor bosses.
Recently 3peso made some tweets relevant to that. He talked about making patterns for 40 bosses seemed impossible but was actually fun which I take to mean as he is done with or nearing completion of the abyss touhou bosses. But then he tweeted that probably half of them will die before displaying the bosses patterns but that it's just that kind of game. I think it's fine for now unless the same problem occurs when the final content is released. It's unknown what kind of gear and stat tweaking he takes into account for these bosses so for all we know, we could be way overshooting what the bosses are balanced for. For that final content, besides for the inevitable respawning boss that gets stronger, I hope he will think hard about what gear and stats players will have. For example, full gems and tomes, mega boosts, library levels, level bonuses, and awakening item bonus. Additionally, I think bosses have to have some leeway in their stats to account for weaker teams that people may want to run, either as a challenge or because of character favoritism. A very strong team should absolutely stomp any boss that comes their way. A weaker team(one lacking debuffs or good elemental coverage or whatever the boss is weak to) should have some trouble but still be able to clear the boss with good decision making. Or overleveling. Really, in a game like this with no realistic caps, any boss can be made easy. Thankfully, 3peso gives us all the tools we need to make the game as hard or easy as we want. Levels too high? You can level down, Library too high? Reset the character.
-
I think Koishi should, but he's also been told in the previous email so it's probably on purpose and whaddayagonnado. It -is- sort of thematically accurate because Koishi doesn't have that kind of mindfulness. It's bad because she -really- needs the stats, though. She has potential with her gimmick but her stats are just really mediocre apart from EVA, with no beneficial passives other than Earth Spirits Party.
The difference between Nitori and other characters does slowly catch up, but in the "mid" Plus Disk, you give her your first scourge and she just fuggin annihilates every shadow boss. Well, no, EVERY BOSS. ALL OF THEM. Hollow going down in a FEW HITS, one-shotting Miko forms, etc. Which is really bad. To be fair, I had a SECOND scourge asap from a lucky chest so my Nitori was even more stupidly OP, but still.
Plus, later you get Chaos the Darksword which ensures Nitori's Attack will stay kind of absurd. She has 4mil attack while my best other members scratch 2.5m Magic. Then she gets overheat and a team synergy, and even w/o synergy, 3D Super Scope in overheat is kind of stupid because Super Scope still has by -FAR- the best formula in the game, so I can hardly imagine WITH it active... >_>;
Although huh, does Shikigami + get -that- strong? @.@
-cut with 3peso comments- The thing about Infinite Corridor fights is you're intended to overshoot the required level and streak corridor floors, which is likely what he meant. The problem is even stuff like the 250f checkpoint special boss with an extra-tailored attack pattern will go down in just a few hits even if you're below it's level. That's where it seems kind of wrong. The earlier special bosses Destroyer and Serpent of Chaos were difficult full-blown bossfights, and Dark Lord is just kinda like... falling over even if you're underlevel. (Unless you blast destroyer with 90~100% defense ignoring SPI nukes with Kaguya/Murakumo Iku, but that's very specific)
Also that the problem isn't limited to the corridor, but I guess it can be a symptom of the fact that they aren't meant to be the end-game content and the only problem is we lack the stuff after them. Like, we're fighting the first two incarnations of Winner and it's easy compared to later ones, etc. Also, it's neat to hear he might be nearing completion of content, because after last time you never know if the next patch will take Literally a Year.
-
I'm only level 350 or so and Nitori is already beyond broken. She has the highest atk stat, something like 30% more than Flandre's with the same equipment, double the speed, vastly more survivability, and non-crippling spellcards. Ran and Chen, and Orin and Okuu both went down in a few hits since they're weak to cold. And I've been skipping the IC, so I don't have exceptionally good equips (flower blades, but not scourge or MGL) or awakenings.
Also, for bugs: I had mentioned an issue with a character's MP being reset on death. Also Shadow Kokoro's sprite is missing (unless I broke that somehow...). Did you want to include those?
-
Yes, any bugs should be included of course, I just couldn't recall them. Shadow Kokoro totally doesn't have a sprite, unless it's the patch somehow yes :V
Nitori does get somewhat less broken as more stats come from the library at lv1200+ but in mid-plus it's just fuggin dumb, and she's still absurd later. It would balance out SOMEDAY, at like lv2000+, but, uh. Really, maintenance should be nerfed because it also helps give her obscene staying power and that makes her silly even in the base, non-plus game. Miko's is already a separately named skill so hers can be left alone easily, presumably. Renko doesn't need the nerf but she'll be OK and if it's really a problem she can get her own new naming of it :V
I debated including Eirin's overheal, but it'd be hard to use if it was Hourai-exclusive... a 150% or 200% cap on overhealing might be reasonable, though... then Healer's "Prayer of Recovery" could perhaps be restored to it's original strength, even.
-
Since 3peso conveniently tweeted their current progress, I think it's better to wait for the next (and probably final as far as content goes) update and then see what has/hasn't been changed. I suspect that the Kokoro sprite bug hasn't been fixed because the sprites simply don't exist in the files, so they need to be made for her. Looking through the thread again, some things that have been mentioned plus some other additions,
-The adjustment to Aya's Divine Grandson's Advent didn't take place.
-Keypoints of Spirit accumulates counters when attacking an enemy with elements it resists.
-The Keypoints of Spirit counter decreases when switching Tenshi from the frontline to the backline.
-The game crashes if, while switching characters, an empty slot on the frontline is selected first, and a character with Instant Attack in the backline is selected second.
-When TP is reduced to 0 by the effect of the Instant Attack skill, a visual bug occurs that distorts the number.
-Byakuren's Awakening skill Blood of Superhuman does not fully restore her HP if healed by a % based healing spell card.
-If a character is defeated in battle, after battle their MP will be equal to what it was at the start of the battle instead of when they were KO'd.
-Characters that survive a DTH effect through skills such as Guts will still have the DTH icon visible.
-Murakumo's Blessing buffs the Attack command when its description specifies spell cards only.
-Reduce the number of bright flashes caused by events in the Infinite Corridor.
-Dragon God Power's skill "Divine Protection of Water" removes debuffs when the description only specifies abnormal status conditions.
Going to leave out balance stuff until after 1.105 hits to see what it's going to be like.
Interesting that 3peso tweeted that they're making 40 bosses. Presently, there are 35 remaining Abyss Touhou bosses, and based on achievements and items left in the game, there's likely to be 5-6 more bosses aside from them, with 6 unattainable items and two confirmed bosses from achievements, the mystery boss on 30f that gives True Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi and True Dragon God
. 40 might be precisely how many bosses are being added for the 1.105 update. This would also suggest that the palette swaps for the Heaven Touhou characters are indeed random encounters for 30f depths, similar to the first game
. My hopes are that there'll be 2-3 Corridor bosses and further enhanced versions for Murakumo and Orochi, in addition to True Dragon God, with Murakumo as the mystery 30f boss and Orochi as the B11f boss
.
-
I wouldn't read into 40 bosses too hard, because if it's anywhere between 36~46 he could reasonably round to 40 while making a general tweet, not to mention a matter of him not even counting and just making a vague assumption :V But yeah ~35 abyss touhous mostly covers that.
Also, I wouldn't personally forgo balance adjustments because they could still get in depending on his mood, but it's very likely the next patch will just be for content, so it's not really a bad call either and I totally get it. I hadn't remembered there was so many bugs either, so that's important!
-
All this makes me wanna do is, when I start a new playthrough, try to do all the Abyss bosses as low level as I possibly can and see how those fights actually go when they aren't being 2-shot. The 3-ish end-supers sound fun but I reallly want to run the IC gauntlet and see what all those bosses have to offer.
-
I wouldn't read into 40 bosses too hard, because if it's anywhere between 36~46 he could reasonably round to 40 while making a general tweet, not to mention a matter of him not even counting and just making a vague assumption :V But yeah ~35 abyss touhous mostly covers that.
Also, I wouldn't personally forgo balance adjustments because they could still get in depending on his mood, but it's very likely the next patch will just be for content, so it's not really a bad call either and I totally get it. I hadn't remembered there was so many bugs either, so that's important!
Well, what I was getting at was that I was anticipating for there to be 40-41 bosses to be added based on the remaining Abyss Touhou fights and the remaining items, so it does look like that's going to be the case.
As for balance adjustments, I mean more that any adjustments that would be recommended at this point are based on the current state of the game, and aren't necessarily going to be applicable for 1.105's endgame. For example, I expect Nitori to fall close to Tenshi or Tokiko's level of damage pretty rapidly when using similar spell cards like Murakumo Slash, and come the total endgame she might actually end up inferior. So I think it's important to look at how the game balances out at the end of postgame so that we can have a full picture to work with when deciding balance changes. This won't change some other things, like buffs to Komachi, Kokoro, and Wriggle (tbh I think Byakuren is really underwhelming too), but I think it'd be better to get everything organized and figured out before saying anything to 3peso.
-
On the subject of maintenance, how about making it only affect longevity(hp, mp, tp, affinities, resists, and possibly mind and defense) and reversing the prior damage nerfs. That would certainly make it a lot easier to balance since you cleanly divide defensive and offensive skills. This would also draw Nitori's offensive effectiveness away from your current gear progression. Thematically I find it makes sense as well since maintenance is basically extending the lifespan of an object so it can continue to do its job. Can't very well deal damage while dead. As well as makes sense when combined with overheat. Good maintenance allows an item to go beyond its specs for longer duration (more mp to make more attacks, more defenses to stay out longer).
All this makes me wanna do is, when I start a new playthrough, try to do all the Abyss bosses as low level as I possibly can and see how those fights actually go when they aren't being 2-shot. The 3-ish end-supers sound fun but I reallly want to run the IC gauntlet and see what all those bosses have to offer.
I hope eventually, when the corridor is fully implemented, it will start throwing random bosses at you every 10 floors at which point you could just keep running as high as possible to check them out.
-
2 other bugs off the top of my head
-Rinnosuke's Precise Diagnosis will remove debuffs from enemies.
-Earth Spirit Palace Party gives one additional level/counter than it should for each character in the frontline for members who also have learned Proof of Kinship (so if Satori learns Proof of Kinship, she gets a lv3 boost for each other member in the frontline instead of 2)
Something I also recently realized is that Akyuu's two base spells also don't seem to scale with level, which could be mentioned I guess.
-
Since Akyuu comes after skill points are of much relevance, the level thing is sort of whatever. They'd probably only get nerfed to where you need to hit lv5 for the current delay value. Those other two are important bugs tho yeah.
I mean more that any adjustments that would be recommended at this point are based on the current state of the game, and aren't necessarily going to be applicable for 1.105's endgame.
That's a good point, as Nitori -will- fall behind some as Maintennance won't improve (unless the final equips are truly crazy, which to be fair, is -very- possible) and more stats will attribute to library; but there's still the issue that, for the entire middle of Plus Disk, she absolutely annihilates everything well beyond what's reasonable. You're guaranteed a scourge on 30f infinite corridor and that lets her start taking out every boss in a few hits, weakness or not, or even one-shot them with Super Scope after using Attack a few times. While still being durable. Her falling behind in endgame doesn't exactly make her power level in the rest of the game OK, and she's got her awakening team synergy.
Plus it's not "falling behind" so much as "going down to the level of everyone else". Overheat is still a huge damage bonus, she'll still have one of the best attack stats even if it's no longer literally twice as much as other members, and she'll still be durable as heck, and Super Scope still has by far the best damage formula outside of Marisa's Spark. Even in 100 winner territory she'd still probably hold her own very well as-is, she just wouldn't be the same massive juggernaut as before since you'd be using defensive equipment (that she'd still love the double affinity/resistances from).
The other balance comments shouldn't really change one way or another. As for Byakuren, I'm using her, and I think she's very solid. I just start battles off with a Charge from Renko, and Strategist still keeps her at apermanent 100%. She can buff herself to reach 100% as well (takes one shot after Charge), and Charge could be replaced by Miracle Fruits and/or Placebo Effect, etc. Her defensive stats actually aren't particularly good due to her expensive library, but the permanent 100% helps make up for that, and her HP is perfectly solid plus 12% regen. Awakening is pretty solid for a stay-out tank. Her buff itself is still 56% to all stats, which is well more than anyone else can do, and she can get infinite mp from awakening if she so desires. So yeah, I think she's fine as-is. It's just that other characters like Sanae can actually compete with her.
-
About Nitori and Maintenance:
Much of your feeling of brokenness, IMO, stems from the fact that, due to how the skill works, you are already inclined to give these chars your best items, so the actual difference with other chars ends up being much larger than it would otherwise be - especially since the jump is huge when you switch to your first corridor Items (I got my first Scourge when most chars were still using stuff like Transforman and Destroy Decomposer). And it's not even just Nitori. For example, in the end of the main game, there are some enemies with rly high defenses which not even Nitori can break through. But Miko can, thx to Asuka Heritage Attack, and if you gave her your best magic items (like Lilium Pants and Astral Dominae), you can still see some absurd numbers. Not as high as Nitori, sure, but they also come attached with a much shorter delay, and with an all-stat debuff which turns many bosses into complete pushovers.
Does Nitori do absurd damage in the mid-plus Disk? Yes. But so do other characters, if equally geared. Yuugi's Knockout in Three Steps, for example, can 3HKO Futo just like Nitori's Super Scope. And as LonelyGaruga said too, Nitori does start getting more reasonable once you get past lvl 1000 or so. The higher you go in level, the more important good damage formulas become compared to good stats. Stuff like Yukari's Shikigami +, Kanako's Virtue of Wind God, and even Sanae's Night of Bright Guest Stars (thx to lvl 9 skills^^) really start hitting VERY hard once you get into those levels. Indeed, I'd be curious to test Youmu (lvl 9 skills ftw) and Yuyuko (396% Nirvana :-O ) at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be MUCH stronger than we considered them to be.
As for Byakuren, for me, the issue is mainly that she's simply outclassed too hard by Renko (who can keep multiple chars buffed with ease, while Maribel heals and empowers them with DIY Novice Border), and Sanae (who, unlike Byakuren, actually does real damage with her skills). IMO, Byakuren should get lvl 9 offensive skills as well, or some other kind of buff which allows her to transition from a pure buff role in the early game to a more mixed role in the lategame. Her offensive skills are actually quite nice, with varied elements and good multipliers, but her stats simply don't seem to match up without extra passive buffs.
As for the Abyss bosses... even if I wasn't trying to "streak", the corridor is just too punishing to convince me not to overlevel. Not only do random enemies have generally the same level as bosses or more (and, if you are the same level as them, you can wipe out very easily), but one single Risky Floor can absolutely destroy you - I am around lvl 1800, and one single +50% Risky Floor (sending enemies from lvl 1000 to 1500 average) nearly cost me a streak. I just hope that (1) WINNER gets more HP and (2) we get more than a single "level increasing" boss with different strategies required, so that you have either to party swap or (if you're like me) to use a more flexible party composition and play different strategies with the same party.
-
Yuugi 3hkos Futo, but Nitori did about 80% of her HP in one Super Scope. While being ridiculously fast and as durable as my tanks. You also argue damage formulas are more important, when Nitori has the strongest attack in the game and the strongest damage increase you can get off a single passive- overheat, so, uhm? :S Like, Nitori is already at least strong as those guys before maintenance even factors in.
So yes I hear what you're saying but I'm still pretty sure Nitori is out of hand. You could totally remove maintenance and she'd still be a strong character. (Maybe slightly underwhelming after losing -that-, but, still pretty good)
edit:To note, that 80% hp damage is without the synergy boost and without elementalist and without Yuugi's PHY damage boost, the latter of which would have made it a potential 0hko at challenge level. I'm not sure either is even available at that point (the synergy absolutely isn't), but yeah. For another comparison, Qaz just noted his Nitori has 30% more attack than Flandre with the same gear on, and felt beyond broken with no Infinite Corridor gear (no scourges, etc).
edit again:Okay, to be fair, it probably just -took futo down- to 80% hp lost, so it was probably like 60~70%, but that's still like double what Yuugi would be achieving.
-
I posted some of my thoughts about Maintenance and Overheating several pages ago but I'm still convinced the latter is the issue. I personally found Super Scope 3D to be a bit underwhelming in the Plus Disk. Not because it isn't a good attack but rather that most bosses were either much weaker to another element or just ended up resisting physical. Instead I found myself using Nitori almost exclusively as a fast attacker with various subclass spells because Overheating enabled her damage output to reach ridiculous levels and given that so many of the good subclass spells have decent post-use gauges, it seemed like that role suited her much more.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to think one way or the other though. I just wanted to add my perspective as more view points can help reach a clearer picture.
-
So I just got two scourges.
https://i.imgur.com/eJMKU3Z.jpg
Now, some caveats. The main equip is going to help Nitori more than Flandre, since it works on base stats. Nitori is a transcendant, which is also good for her. Flandre is a swordmaster. Nitori also has 18 +atk gems, Flandre has 0. Since, well, they just do so much more for Nitori than Flandre. And finally Nitori has Atk Boost 2, Flandre just has regular Atk boost. Neither have awakening skills. Flandre has the advantage in terms of library levels (300 vs 352) and bonus points (Nitori has 20 in HP, everything else is in Atk. All of Flandre's are in Atk). Final base score is 169 (Nitori) vs 236 (Flandre). Nitori has worse speed, but that's because I used pure +atk items and not flower blade.
My personal thought on fixing maintenance would be to have it double the number of item slots, rather than doubling their effect. This would mean super lategame people could still stack 6 MGLs, but you can't rush your first MGL and have it count as two. She'd be a lot more expensive to keep relevant, but I don't think that'd be too bad.
However I'm certain this would never ever happen, since it'd probably break huge amounts of the existing game code/UI
-
Something I also recently realized is that Akyuu's two base spells also don't seem to scale with level, which could be mentioned I guess.
Ah, yeah...I guess lower MP cost for Protecting Art of Wisdom and lower delay for Guarding Art of Wisdom?
As for Byakuren, I'm using her, and I think she's very solid. I just start battles off with a Charge from Renko, and Strategist still keeps her at apermanent 100%. She can buff herself to reach 100% as well (takes one shot after Charge), and Charge could be replaced by Miracle Fruits and/or Placebo Effect, etc. Her defensive stats actually aren't particularly good due to her expensive library, but the permanent 100% helps make up for that, and her HP is perfectly solid plus 12% regen. Awakening is pretty solid for a stay-out tank. Her buff itself is still 56% to all stats, which is well more than anyone else can do, and she can get infinite mp from awakening if she so desires. So yeah, I think she's fine as-is. It's just that other characters like Sanae can actually compete with her.
It's not so much that Byakuren's buff isn't strong, but that it doesn't really make much of a difference at that point, and the other buffing characters you mentioned are better at buffing characters Byakuren would be useful for buffing. Like, Byakuren can dole out 56% buffs, but Sanae can put out 42% (48% with Enhancer) buffs while also buffing Youkai damage by 39%, SPI damage by 30%, restoring 1-3 MP per turn to the whole frontline, and she packs the strongest ST healing spell card, and is also a pretty strong attacker herself, being fairly useful for early Plus Disk Basement floors and Shadow bosses with SPI and CLD weaknesses. Now, I think Sanae is a really good character, so it isn't fair to compare Byakuren with the expectation that she should bring as much to the table as Sanae, but compared to her or Renko or other strong buffing characters, I'm at a bit of a loss as to why I'd use Byakuren over them. At the very least, I think she should be good at being a bulky attacker and not just buffing, as she'd have a pretty neat niche in being very self-sufficient with her high natural HP and 14% Regeneration, 100% buff upkeep, and 3 MP regeneration plus large MP pool. She's got a decent foundation to start with too, Master of the Great Trichiliocosm has the same damage formula as Suwako's Long-Arm and Long-Leg, with better delay. She just has a similar problem that Komachi does, her damage doesn't stand out at all because most other cast members do better.
Another thing that could be done with her is having her self-buffs apply at 1/2 effect to the frontline, but I think it'd be better to round Byakuren's abilities instead of making her exclusively for buffing.
On the topic of Nitori, I thought, to give an idea of how strong Maintenance is, why not look at how it would affect another character? So I took a look at Tenshi. I took off all her equipment (Tokugawa Statue w/ Magic Sword Chaos, Scourge, and Grond) and found that it's a bit close to doubling her ATK, from 1,176,954 to 2,001,418. That's 824,464 more ATK, or 70% more ATK from her base. If Tenshi had Maintenance, that would take her ATK to 2,825,882. Maintenance is about a 50-55% damage increase compared to 75% from Overheat, at least with Tenshi's ATK score, which is increased further by Girl of Bhava-agra, Courageous Sword, and Keypoints of Spirit. Without the other ATK increasing skills, Maintenance is closer to a 60-65% damage increase. This is with her personal spell cards on a 4m DEF target. I'd imagine it's similar for Nitori, but obviously testing it on her would be better!
-
Stuff like Yukari's Shikigami +, Kanako's Virtue of Wind God, and even Sanae's Night of Bright Guest Stars (thx to lvl 9 skills^^) really start hitting VERY hard once you get into those levels. Indeed, I'd be curious to test Youmu (lvl 9 skills ftw) and Yuyuko (396% Nirvana :-O ) at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they turned out to be MUCH stronger than we considered them to be.
Getting off the Nitori boat for a minute (altho yeah, half the reason she's OP isn't just the damage- she scores huge durability and speed too OKAY MOVING ON), let's explore that. Yukari might! There was a video of someone using her most of the fight in Winner, recently. It's hard to tell without literally doing it because I don't know what Shikigami + formula upgrades to; that's something to test for sure. And Youmu has a top-class awakening that almost got her in my team, she's definitely really good in endgame. But Yuyuko, Sanae, and Kanako... hmm.
Yuyuko is still the most disappointing of the set. Her poor leveling+library make her magic honestly a little low, and poor library cost makes a big difference in endgame, along with no damage-boosting passives. She does boast awesome DTH for the corridor and irresistable gauge-draining, though, and SFN isn't -disappointing- by any means, it's just not as glorious as you'd hope. And she did, thankfully, get a damage buff in the last patch to help out. Her poor speed becomes less of an issue over time as well, so she's workable, she's just not... ideal? The Youmu synergy is good since Youmu rocks in endgame, though.
Kanako is solid as she always was, and if you charge up her awakening passive she gets a huge damage boost that should make her quite impressive. I don't like "use this specific attack to get stronger" gimmicks, but she gets a potent boost for sure, and after Sky Creation her damage is effectively doubled, with good durability. Pair that with 4 elements, Majesty+, and a team synergy, and you can't really go wrong. Sanae is just "adequate" in terms of high damage, because she gets roughly a 50% damage boost compared to average moves for Guest Stars, and 30% on Moses Miracle if Sorc subbed. It's honestly just average for a good attacker (many attackers can get almost that much boost or more) but considering her support moves and team synergy, that's very respectable. She doesn't want to sub for Heavenly Demise because of it's delay and lower max level. Suwako is sort of included since team, and she's got good potential with her awakening and kinship boosts, and can afford to be tweaked for enough HP/Affinity to swap into tank slot, take one hit, and fullheal on swapout from her passive. Since glass cannons aren't really Plus Disk meta, she's more of a kinship choice- but charging her Awakening damage-doubler with another Boost effect and full kinship does result in very impressive numbers.
cut by Nitori discussion. Yeah, that's what it looks like at that point in the game. She easily gets double the atk of most party members, considering that's Flan. Later, the Attack stat evens out some, but you put on a Regalia and she obtains ENORMOUS durability for still having top-class ATK that surpasses everyone else, whilst also probably being super fast. Attack balances out at the 2000+ point, where it's the doubled affinities and overheat left shining along with Super Scope. I'm kind of concerned for Miko at that point, where her abysmal library will -really- hurt and maintenance is mostly about affinities and base stats. Ah well... she should still be good enough? There's always tomes of reincarnation...
Like, Byakuren can dole out 56% buffs, but Sanae can put out 42% (48% with Enhancer) buffs while also buffing Youkai damage by 39%, SPI damage by 30%, restoring 1-3 MP per turn to the whole frontline, and she packs the strongest ST healing spell card.
Sanae is definitely someone I've considered replacing Byakuren with. She could even upkeep buffs with World Shaking Rule by using her mp refill passive to make Murakumo's MP Drain free, and it's other passives to keep her durability high whilst refilling party power herself... and boasting a heal and great passives over Byakuren. Since I was satisfied with Byakuren I never made the change, though. I don't really care about the attacks because I'm looking at a full-time-support role who wants to upkeep buffs or heal/formswap every single turn. But yes, when it comes to bulky attacker builds, she doesn't really cut it; her attack stats are somewhat poor due to level and library cost, and her self-buffs only offset the lack of damage boost passives, not her poor stats themselves. Sanae pulls that role off much better.
If I was interested in moving in the Moriya team I'd absolutely swap to Sanae. Kanako is very good and Suwako is quirky, but with strong potential application.
-
Yukari might! There was a video of someone using her most of the fight in Winner, recently. It's hard to tell without literally doing it because I don't know what Shikigami + formula upgrades to; that's something to test for sure.
This ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAErriCldvI ) might (???) be said video? But I'm really bad at this game, and also used her very recklessly, so I'm not sure if I'm good research material.
Also, I one shot, without any special setup Shadow Komachi - Abyss
, @ level 500, because my library levels were really high (like, 1100 high). Maybe that was still overpowered, I wonder if I should have went at level 400, instead?
-
Yeesh, even I didn't one-shot
Abyss Komachi
with Tenshi. Ran it at Iku 641 (average 638) and library 700. Only did about 75% with World Creation Press. That probably was a little overpowered haha
-
Two other bugs I just remembered are that Yukari's Mesh of Light and Darkness has an extremely high SPD debuff, which may or may not be intentional, and Meiling's China Qi-Gong doesn't disappear when attacking, which also could be intentional.
-
By one-shot I meant it took me one attempt. Sorry for any misunderstanding (;・∀・) I'll, uh. Try to refrain from using that from now on, as I'm trying to avoid actually killing them in one blow.
-
I checked and Shikigami + seems to do like 550~600% MAG with full boost (which is perpetual post-awakening). Yukari's MAG isn't super impressive so that's not ABSOLUTELY INSANE but it's still pretty dang intense, especially at it's delay, and she does have her kinship boost to assist. And as Sorc she has Hyperactive Flying Object as a solid backup skill, that... actually... does about the same damage as a resisted Shikigami+ so uh, well then, maybe that's not an important sub XDD
Two other bugs I just remembered are that Yukari's Mesh of Light and Darkness has an extremely high SPD debuff, which may or may not be intentional, and Meiling's China Qi-Gong doesn't disappear when attacking, which also could be intentional.
I noticed this and meiling is already insanely good so uh
she really didn't need a double damage passive after awakening lol
-
Did some tests with Nitori: https://imgur.com/a/1h0x76j
Left is stats and damage without Maintenance (but with both Overheat and Youkai Mountain Alliance at max level). Middle is Nitori's stats and damage this time with Maintenance. Right is her damage with Maintenance but without either Overheat or Alliance. (I didn't sub anyone Strategist so she could technically deal 10% more).
I would say Alliance is a pretty situational boost though.
Something I was thinking about is that Momiji is actually not that good, her whole Awakening is focused around making it easy for her to keep herself constantly buffed up, but as long as you have any actual buffer in your team that's trivial, and past that, she actually has no damage increasing passives (other than Alliance).
-
Something I was thinking about is that Momiji is actually not that good, her whole Awakening is focused around making it easy for her to keep herself constantly buffed up, but as long as you have any actual buffer in your team that's trivial, and past that, she actually has no damage increasing passives (other than Alliance).
That's a fair point. Her main selling feature is Instant Attack. It's less special with how fast ATB currently (and especially will later...) tick, though, since it makes her move twice as fast as a normal character on swap-in instead of numerous times faster... along with things like swap-heavy Kogasa builds being much less of a boon for instant attack spamming in general. She suffers from speed inflation more than anything else. The buff maintenance would have been really good on an instant attack spam build, but speed is already obsoleting them...
also lol at nitori dealing one third of king's hp in one hit. When you include synergy members to actually optimize her damage, it gets dumb even in current endgame.
-
Hm, so Maintenance and Overheat are adding about the same amount of damage for Nitori. Figures.
Also since it was mentioned, Yukari's Mesh of Light and Darkness is currently set as SPD - 2500%. I thought about mentioning this before but I decided against it because I felt that the data in the files that isn't visible in-game isn't really supposed to be known, like spell card formulas and such. I guess phrasing it as "it seems to be too high" would be safe. Should mention the Qi-Gong buff not vanishing on attack as well.
I was thinking Momiji was pretty good with Instant Attack and all, but at this point in the game she probably could use some kind of damage buff, yeah. It's a little tricky to buff Momiji while simultaneously abusing Instant Attack to its fullest, particularly when it comes to Boost effects since Momiji doesn't have a way to apply it to herself. She does have the Flying racial damage passive, but the number of relevant Flying bosses is, uh...small. There are more Flying bosses than Aquatic or Insect though, and notably Serpent of Chaos is a Flying boss. Still terrible compared to the Human or Youkai racial passives that Rumia and Reimu/Sanae have of course.
also lol at nitori dealing one third of king's hp in one hit.
And I thought Tenshi doing 25% with Sword of Hisou was a lot. And that's hitting weakness and a -50% DEF debuff, with 50% Boost, 30% SPI, 16% weakness from Akyuu and Sanae. And she even had better equipment! Granted, Nitori 1200 is a little higher than Tenshi 1123 in terms of EXP investment, but only by a few levels or so I would estimate.
-
That's a fair point. Her main selling feature is Instant Attack. It's less special with how fast ATB currently (and especially will later...) tick, though, since it makes her move twice as fast as a normal character on swap-in instead of numerous times faster... along with things like swap-heavy Kogasa builds being much less of a boon for instant attack spamming in general. She suffers from speed inflation more than anything else.
I mean, Mystia and Chen also get Instant Attack and get a bunch of easy to use Kinship boosts, ATK increasing awakening passives and spellcards with excellent formulas, all of which Momiji lacks (and their frailty is a moot point if we're using Instant Attack as comparison, without mentioning Chen and Mystia's better EVA).
-
Mystia's latest awakening buff really makes her the unexpected hit character. It seems most endgame bosses will feature proper accuracy, but, against fights that don't have new high-accuracy moves, you see a lot of evading. Like, random battles are MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS. And she gets a -massive- stat boost off Silencing an enemy, which she has obscene accuracy for now that she's got higher max level; 120% infliction chance, 32000 effect, and biiig damage formula. Before she had been pretty underwhelming other than her status as Team 9 member.
I'm kind of messing around with my "debuff character slot". Hina/Mystia/Aya have been swapping around in it after Hina sitting there as a mainstay all game. Hina doesn't really need boosts or gems, but Mystia... wasted potential without them! Plus I might try Reisen for magnificent vertigo... that plus Sheer Force Mokou must make guardian's Shock awfully accurate against even -slightly- vulnerable bosses. Not that we really need to delay turns at the moment, but later.
-
I personally found Mystia+Reisen to be a fantastic combination when clearing random battles in early to mid Plus Disk, Poisonous Moth's Dark Dance with Reisen's resistance reduction allows you to PAR/PSN enemies quite reliably, you just need either Aya or a Strategist/Monk to get the first turn and then switch in Mystia to cripple half the enemies.
EDIT: Kinda random but I just noticed that Magical Tempest got fixed and is properly VOI elemental now, and Patchy's Passive Phylosopher's Stone works with it, which is currently the only way to reduce VOI damage.
-
Kinda random but I just noticed that Magical Tempest got fixed and is properly VOI elemental now, and Patchy's Passive Phylosopher's Stone works with it, which is currently the only way to reduce VOI damage.
Could you reduce VOI damage by subbing Patchy with Elementalist? All of its subclass spells are void.
-
They are VOI, is what their description says, but they do have an element icon when you cast them, so I'm not really sure if that's the case?
-
The Elementalist skills count as FIR/CLD/WND/NTR for Patchy.
-
Yeah, the Elementalist spellcards are said to be VOI in their description, but they are actually FIR/CLD/WND/NTR respectively (you can see it in the elemental icon that appears next to their name when you cast it in combat).
-
I figured the final version of this had to be out by now after all these years (welp), so I finally started playing it at the weekend. Thanks for the character unlock file, since playing through 50+ hours to recruit everyone is pretty much my least favourite thing in RPGs.
Currently on floor 10 with basically no idea about who I want to use long term other than Hina. Uncertainty about who to invest into has put a large mental block on me using the library, which is making life much more difficult than it needs to be. Still, I'm enjoying it.
On a bug related note that isn't on the wiki, Kanako's Beautiful Spring like Suiga seems to be (re)bugged in the Plus Disk. As of +1.104a, It doesn't lower ATK or MAG like the description says it's supposed to. Oddly enough it works fine in the base 1.203. I'd report it if I knew how, since she's a strong contender for a party spot.
-
Currently on floor 10 with basically no idea about who I want to use long term other than Hina. Uncertainty about who to invest into has put a large mental block on me using the library, which is making life much more difficult than it needs to be. Still, I'm enjoying it.
Well, if you only invest about half of what one would normally invest (e.g. lv40 library instead of 80) the costs are practically nothing. Especially consider that, by the time you're at 18f, the money you spent on 10f is almost nothing.
Oh huh, that's a strange bug to pop up though.
re:Final version, to be fair, sounds like the final content patch is just about done, and any character tweaks at this point will probably be awakening-only (so, deep plus disk territory).
-
It's finished enough right now to be considered "done" anyway, far as I care. The plot wraps up, the postgame leftovers wrap up, all we got left to wait on is just a couple of super bosses. If it wasn't for a few suspiciously unobtainable acheivements and those red rocks, you could honestly fool me right now into thinking nothing left was coming except some more IC floors.
-
I tried to see how much damage I could do in one Master Spark, the answer is a lot:
[attach=1]
Sadly, I got Strategist Miko killed, so missed on both the 10% extra damage and the 16% extra effect from buffs (other than that, used the 50% boost from Akyuu, Starting Point of Assault, Rumia's Racial Bonus and Maribel's Vision Sharing).
-
Enough to one-shot (heck, 120% of his max hp) the strongest boss currently in the game at a challenge level, without even heavily tweaking Marisa's magic library. XD Christ. The boss isn't weak to MYS, and Rumia's racial bonus is the only situational factor- but almost all bosses have a racial bonus you can hunt down somewhere. Sparkblasting is actually... damn.
Based on the image, it looks like Holy Blessing only drains the initial 27 mp cost from the whole front row? ...that's actually an incredibly potent combination. Plus it enables use of Alice, a 136 evasion character (mystiaaa) with many strong passives and a nuke in row-enhanced Hourai Dolls.
edit:Marisa would also regain 11 mp for each turn she remained in front casting magic missile with holy blessing on, if you used like, akyuu's invincible or eirin overheals to keep her alive. You know, if you need 2 sparks. lolo
-
To be fair, with the setup I had here, Marisa is perfectly fine staying in the front as long as she's in the right slots (its faster to rack up the Charge mode stacks that way). Of course part of the reason is that this boss doesn't use too many threatening AoE attacks but still.
-
Hello! I'm new here. I played LoT1 a very long time ago and I decide to return to play it. I lost my original save but I have a older one at floor 18 on cloud. I already played a bit and beat the boss. Is still allowed to talk or this is only for LoT2?
My post took so much time to get approved that nobody see it, Lol.
From the current discussion: Did you mean there are only few characters viable for the post game or just some are more broken and other are just sub optimal? I still want to play with characters I like than broken characters in LoT2
-
It's the latter, pretty much every character in Labyrinth of Touhou 2 is good. Some are better than others, but there's no such thing as an outright bad character.
-
Yeah, even the -very- few "less good" characters are still totally viable. They're likely to get buffed a bit before 3peso decides he's finished patching, even.
S'just that a few cast members are a bit... abusable :V Even then, there's only like two glaringly notable examples there; Nitori and apparently also Marisa. Marisa's only ridiculous in endgame maxed out setups, though.
-
There is a point I didn't understand: The post game, does everyone have so much speed that switching slow nuke characters isn't worthy any more or is just me misunderstand it? I very like switching characters.
-
In the very late plus disc postgame, yeah. Hopefully that'll be fixed in some way in the next few patches.
-
Honestly, swapping slow nukes in LoT2 was never as good at LoT1. LoT1 it's your main source of damage, in 2 there's lots of bulky attackers who deal nearly as much as slow nukes (really, there's not the same colossally strong nukes on squishies)... and a lot more alltarget attacks that will kill squishy backrow characters too. But yeah, in endgame the atb increases by 2k+ on pretty much all your members without speed buffs and it'll only get higher. 3peso maybe shouldn't have inflated the levels quite so much; 2,000 endgame instead of 500 endgame breaks some stuff. Swapping is still sort of efficient in the right times on slow nukes, but it'll only break further by the end.
-
S'just that a few cast members are a bit... abusable :V Even then, there's only like two glaringly notable examples there; Nitori and apparently also Marisa. Marisa's only ridiculous in endgame maxed out setups, though.
idk about Marisa, it does take 25 turns to max out her Charge Mode counter. The damage does seem a little high regardless though.
-
Well yeah, but even with it at half full she'd do about 93% of his hp meter, so XD Plus with a strat like that you'd probably overinvest her Magic library. (It's still a one-shot with a strategist or extra library at half charge...)
-
That's pretty fine tbh, I took 9 turns to beat King of Chaos with Tenshi, and two of those were dead turns waiting on Perfect Life. Was level 1123 instead of 1200 too.
-
That Master Spark looks kinda fierce :-O
Me, I generally don't get those numbers because I prefer a "bulky offense approach", with proper defenses and status immunities. In fact, I equipped every team member with Medicine of Life, Quartz Charm (except Maintenance users), and Machine God Lucifer or a similarly good equipment (like Magic Sword Chaos, Fundoshi Dimension Coupler etc), with Tokugawa Statue as main equip (still miss 4-5 of those but I'll get there). Sure, I get less damage done, but I can withstand nearly anything bosses and enemies of my level can throw out and finish them off. Stability FTW^^
-
I just noticed that Chen's new Shikigami's Multi Accel Attack increases when she takes an action, not when she attacks, this means that you can use another Instant Attacker to constantly switch her in and out, allowing you to max out the counter instantly for that 50% ATK boost. The counter also doesn't disappear when moving to the back.
Its also worth noting that due to the SPD increase from Chen's awakening and her own very high levelling rate/low library costs, Chen eventually outspeeds Aya.
-
Me, I generally don't get those numbers because I prefer a "bulky offense approach", with proper defenses and status immunities.
Bulky offensive is definitely LoT2's meta for the most part, but if a character can pull off a nuke -that- big solo, it seems worthwhile. @.@ That being said, I don't see myself using Marisa particularly soon, but when it gets into big winner chains or deep corridor shenanigans or whatever else might potentially be in there, I may be tome'ing someone and swapping her in to complement my otherwise durability-focused attackers. Maybe if Miko lags behind in post-endgame due to her massive library/level costs she'll find her spot taken by Marisa...
I mean, I don't really need -six- bulky attackers, now that MP isn't a large issue and I have enough durability shenanigans they don't drop like flies.
-
That Master Spark looks kinda fierce :-O
Me, I generally don't get those numbers because I prefer a "bulky offense approach", with proper defenses and status immunities. In fact, I equipped every team member with Medicine of Life, Quartz Charm (except Maintenance users), and Machine God Lucifer or a similarly good equipment (like Magic Sword Chaos, Fundoshi Dimension Coupler etc), with Tokugawa Statue as main equip (still miss 4-5 of those but I'll get there). Sure, I get less damage done, but I can withstand nearly anything bosses and enemies of my level can throw out and finish them off. Stability FTW^^
So, how did you manage to pull off the numbers needed to beat King of Chaos, at challenge level?
-
You can totally beat King just using the stronger bulky attackers. Granted, you might feel more compelled to do so at a slightly higher level and you might skirt towards the edge of the turn limit, as I'm pretty sure I did. My Nitori was only subclassed as Transcendant so I wasn't getting any crazy weakness damage off her nor was she a total centerpiece of my damage, so I figure my party counted as an average, non-special clear. I did it at like 1250 average level, I think?
Since any party can sub Holy Blessing on their strongest physical attacker for King, plus access to Sword of Light on the other class, he should be pretty handle-able. I hadn't used either :V Miko had sword of light but she preferred her own Light attacks.
-
So, how did you manage to pull off the numbers needed to beat King of Chaos, at challenge level?
Idr exactly, I think I was around lvl 1200 or something. I did have trouble to keep up, though I eventually managed to do it with Renko/Nitori/Miko/Maribel. I mean, I can still get good numbers^^ Just not nearly 1 billion like Serela did with Marisa
Maybe if Miko lags behind in post-endgame due to her massive library/level costs she'll find her spot taken by Marisa...
Well, I dunno how high of a lvl you got, I'm almost lvl 2000 average with my team, and Miko is still pretty powerful. Not the stronger SPI attacker I got (Kanako outdamages her cleanly once awakened, Mad Dance is absurdly strong), but her damage is still solid. Plus, she is still my best debuffer.
-
I did King at about 1100 just by blasting him with Brilliant Light Gem and occasionally rotating in secondary damage dealers in slot four (namely, Nitori and Wriggle with some buffers coming out to keep Meiling's stats up) and it worked just fine.
-
Just found out that Yuyuko's Ghastly Dream is bugged, instead of decreasing every enemy's ATB by 25%, it decreases only the ATB of the target enemy by 25% per the number of enemies (so it reduces their ATB down to 75%, then to 75% of that value and so on).
This also seems to have a very weird interaction with bosses, since they halve ATB reducing effects, and in this case, it seems the amount gets reduced by half for every instance they get hit by the effect (so first by 12.5%, then by 6.25%, etc).
EDIT: After some more testing, it seems that my numbers on the last part were incorrect due to the fact that the reduction on bosses is different for each spell, while bosses reduce the effect of Ghost Butterfly to lowering 15% ATB instead of 33%, they reduce the effect of Ghastly Dream to 8% from the original 25%. So they simply get that 8% reduction multiple times if there's several enemies.
-
I beat the king, damage race style. I used Okuu with Murakumo's blessing without the skill that drains other frontliners' mana for more damage, rev up her overheat charges to the max then spam start of heavenly demise. The AOE kills his minions so he's stuck resummoning them while taking about 1/4 HP damage every cast. I used Aya for that since the delay for heavenly demise is a bit too long and I can't take that concentrate AOE nuke.
I don't know if overheat affecting subclass spells was intentional, but it's pretty good. I think Marisa's awakening also affects subclass spells.
-
I finished the infinite corridor bosses yesterday.
Uploaded videos of the bosses I was told were interesting:
Shadow Komachi Abyss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7nuyxmFOBs
Shadow Mokou Abyss
https://youtu.be/WVmApcTG_3c
Shadow Aya Abyss
https://youtu.be/utLrdpLY12Q
Dark Lord of Woe
https://youtu.be/pQyeVSMmz-4
I'm not sure if it's because I used Nitori (Okay, it probably is. I'm sorry), but Dark Lord of Woe
wasn't nearly as hard as Serpent of Chaos
for me. Now I can't tell if that boss was supposed to be all that menacing or not. What else can that boss do, anyway?
-
Dark Lord is not very hard overall, it has a few dangerous single and multi target (which also happen to be dual elemental) nukes, but it needs to charge up too often to use them. The most threathening combo it has is a move that drains your frontline's buffs followed by an MT nuke (which with a 100% buff is probably gonna wipe you out).
-
Sounds like I got lucky, again. lol.
Also sounds like it's an upgraded Memorized Knowledge or something (That boss from 15F, I think, that alternates between buffing to 100% and nuking). With an HP pool like that, it's probably harder than your average Infinite Corridor boss
-
Yeah, if you check its HP in Keine's Library it'll show that it actually has slightly more HP than Serpent of Chaos at the same level. It's probably supposed to be as tough, but the damage scaling is all messed up at that point in the game. Personally I beat the Dark Lord in about half as many hits as Serpent of Chaos, and World Creation Press has a better damage formula than Sword of Hisou and Murakumo Slash.
-
I keep wanting to do more things even though there's nothing left to do but grind for gems @.@ I already swapped Futo for Mokou (both excellent endgame choices with similar effects, but Mokou min/maxes better I think) and now I'm considering my support core.
I wonder if Main Tank Tokiko is worthwhile? Byakuren's stats... really don't age that well. Her HP is good since the base amount was top class, but her def/mnd are honestly kind of poor, not that it's a huge deal, and the total lack of passives means that... all she really does is buff, which, well, she's REALLY good at it, but I -am- starting to wonder if I could do better. Minoriko would be massively tempting if more of my attackers were magical (I tested; she has as much hp/def as byakuren, not factoring the extra buffs, lol.), and Sanae is tempting too.
Tokiko's passives would also help with upkeeping debuffs, and keep everyone's buffs up fairly well without even using her turn if she's Strategist or God. The problem is like... her moveset is somewhat limited and the best subs for main tanks don't carry support moves, just support passives. And I still need enough buffing power to get newly swapped in members up to speed before Tokiko really does her job. I don't want to Charge -everyone-. But if I use Enhancer Tokiko I'm like, is this even worth it after cutting off a third of her passive buff upkeep? So then I go back to Sanae/Minoriko. I'm pretty sure Minoriko is just The Choice if you can cover attack buffs enough for upkeep off Placebo Effect or World Shaking Rule from minoriko to cover it, but out of my 4 best attackers, three are physical :V (Then Mari/Iku/Rumia/Eirin as hybrids, which are admittedly, all magical)
THE WORLD OF MAXIMAL EFFICIENCY IS FULL OF DIFFICULT CHOICES.
-
Seems like Sanae would be your best choice as a replacement, since she basically does everything Byakuren does but more as a support character. Tokiko runs the problem of her effect being rather small and requiring characters to already be buffed, while Minoriko's a bit on the slow side for accumulating ATK buffs. Pretty interesting choice for MAG though, but if you're already running Renko for MT ATK/MAG buffing then it'd probably be better to run a stronger single-target buff.
-
With Strategist or The Special Sub, Tokiko actually maintains buffs pretty well. Like, if someone moves at 100% buffs and then Tokiko takes her turn, they should go back to 92%. When you also consider the status/debuffs passive increase and you still having your turn to use, it?s pretty good. But you only have so many slots for support members and she doesn?t apply buffs herself...
Sanae is probably the way to go unless I do things to open up another additional slot for Tokiko, which isn?t really necessary.
-
Is there some kind of patch notes for character related balance changes from vanilla to plus disk? Not specifically the awakening skills stuff.
-
I tried to go back and find it and it was too hard. @.@ There's so much thread-age. So instead I'll browse the wiki page and list everything I recall being modified... this is... -probably- everything?? Not counting any awakening skill changes.
Let's see; there's new passive skills (from the start, not awakening locked) for Keine, Youmu, Kogasa, Cirno, Meiling, Alice, Iku, and Sakuya. Most bugged skills were fixed. Iku's speed was increased and Flan's was slightly decreased. Kogasa's MP Recovery was increased to a stunning 8. Overheat now caps at 5. White Album gets stronger with levels, Hourai Elixir, and Magic Circuit get improved delay with skill levels. Tenshi's Keystone Formation is now +7% to all stats for the party when activated. Yuuka's Beauty of Nature is now WND element. Byakuren's buff copier was overhauled to copy 56% of her buffs over at max level instead of 100%, but also functions as a normal buff instead of overwriting the target's buff values. Many subclass attacks were made a little more expensive.
Oh, and Instant Attack costs 1tp to activate and Extra Attack works one third less often on subclass skills, while extra procs also now cost half of a skill's base mp cost. That might change in the next rebalance, though.
Buffed skills; damage increase unless noted otherwise
Cirno's Diamond Blizzard (PAR increase, not damage)
Aya's Wind God Fan
Orin's Cat's Walk (although delay also became worse) and Blazing Wheel (delay bonus only)
Utsuho's Giga Flare and Hell's Tokamak (giga flare slightly costlier/slower)
Yuugi's Supernatural Phenomenon and Knockout in 3 Steps
Reisen's Gas-Woven Orb (delay bonus only)
Flandre's Starbow Break and Forbidden Fruits (various adjustments, overall much better)
Warrior's Severing Flash (About as strong as Sorceror's Penetration now; reasonable after row atk enhancement)
Physical/Magic Counter power up (Yuugi, Iku, Shou)
Damage decreased:
Nitori's 3D Super Scope
Suika's Throwing Atlas
Flandre's Laveatien
Attacks now max at Lv7:
Mystia, Alice, Ran, Youmu (lv9), Sanae (lv9)
-
That is awesome, thanks. I have a friend who wants to play it but the current Plus Disk english patch still has many symbols missing in English (like HP ATK DEF in the stats screen) and he's not down with anything not being in English. Was wondering what the changes were to see how enticing it is to patch the plus disk anyway.
-
Hmm? Current Plus Disk patch should have those translated. However, the menu for the town isn't. You can still tell what everything is by the description on the right, but the image hasn't been re-edited since the Infinite Corridor was added to the menu in Plus.
I think the last image file update was back in 1.203, and can be found in this download. Don't use the exe or anything found here, just the img1.dxa file. [attachment=1] (Alternatively, if you have the latest english patch on non-plus already, just put it's image file into your plus disk set)
The description for Instant/Extra Attack and Tenshi's Keystone Formation are in japanese since they were edited, but other than that, the town menu, and a few mp cost lines on subclass attacks, the game is more or less fully translated up until after the Plus Disk final plot boss- and then some. Since the final content patch doesn't seem to be terribly far off based on 3peso tweets, that's likely to be all for awhile.
Many of the new passive skills and buffs to attack damage are very significant for the affected characters. If he isn't using almost any of them though, upgrading isn't a huge difference until reaching the actual Plus Disk content.
-
Should this screen be translated or is this normal? This was what I was referring to. And I used the img file from the link you gave me as well.
https://imgur.com/a/12XFuCO
My buddy has never played a game in a foreign language and this is inconvenient, especially since he hasn't memorized the positions yet.
-
Those are also untranslated for me using the most recent english patch. I can't really see how it would be that inconvenient though when you have icons right there. I checked with the regular exe and it's the same there. Checked the image files and it turns out, those lines are images contained in img2.dxa while the ones that are translated are located in img1.dxa. You or your friend shouldn't have any trouble playing the game regardless.
-
I forgot that that one should be translated. Were there any changes in img2? If not I could just rebuild img2 and include the old translated version.
I really need an image editor for the other stuff. But a lot of it, e.g. the infinite corridor room stuff, hasn't even been translated.
-
Apart from translation matters; I'm realizing as I continue to gem grind for a few minutes once or twice a day (party lv1500 now <.<;;) that, stat scaling... really, really does favor the low-library-cost characters. If I put the same equipment on Rumia as I have on Miko and dump all her levels in mag instead of an hp/mag split, they have the same magic. They both have a permanent 16% boost and Miko currently has the highest MAG in the party (granted, Maribel is a trivial amount behind her). About 2.8m Magic.
This is with Miko wearing a +720%, +600%, and +400% MAG equipment with a Tokugawa Statue, so Maintennance is in full effect. Nitori meanwhile still has more than 50% more ATK than anyone has in MAG at 4.5m. TBH, this is more a show that even with Maintennance, Miko's costly levels/library actually makes her Normal. (granted, with double regalia boost, ho boy!)
Then I did the same with Akyuu and she had 3.1m magic, more than either- only slightly less after their permanent 16% boosts. Along with the highest def/mnd in the party (miko would beat her with more jewels), the most speed even though Renko/Miko have a lot of spd increase on equips and Akyuu has none and her base speed is horrible, etc. In further endgame territory in the future, where you have a ton more library but mostly the same gear, she'll only move further ahead.
Considering equipment becomes rather homogenous in endgame (literally everyone wants a quartz charm, practically everyone wants a regalia over the ~10% mag increase a tupsimati gives) I'm starting to think that in endgame, Akyuu actually serves really well as a hybrid tank/nuker with Dragon God
for it's support+nuke hybrid benefits. The two downsides are A.Losing Placebo Effect, and B.She does have to shift a lot of levels out of HP for that. However, she still has Mega Resurrection, so she can honestly pretty well afford to do that. Hmm.
Pretty much the only thing stopping all support characters from being hybrids is that people spending ~75% of their time on support moves still probably want 80% of their levelups in HP, and at this point in the game a full set of level bonuses still roughly doubles a stat value. Your equipment loadout... isn't much different either way. Characters well-suited for hybridizing like Iku with her super strong counters and half-supportive Rumia do perfect with stuff like a half/half-ish level bonus split.
edit:I actually did the Rumia test wrong. Rumia has 3.3m magic if I give her the same stuff as Miko. Well damn. Then the 16% All By Myself... for 3.8m. That's actually starting to near Nitori's levels. XDD So, uh, yeah, cheap library is... -really- good for stats endgame. Rumia's gotten a little more EXP than Akyuu and has a little more base magic, is all.
-
Rumia has excellent MAG even when normalizing character library levels, she's like top 5 or so without I'm Fine Even by Myself. Really strong character, great stats, great spells, good skills.
-
I feel pretty satisfied with my party after I threw Sanae in... other than wondering whether I should do hybrid Akyuu, but that can really be worried about later when I have a better idea how my party is playing in endgame bosses, since I already use Akyuu anyway. I swapped special subclasses around so my star attackers ALL have a powerful SPI attack for Sanae to boost and Wand of Destruction w/Sheer Force might be interesting here and there... especially if I throw Reisen in.
Which brings me to the final slot, that honestly, I've just been putting grind-beneficial characters in ever since hitting 30f, like Dowsing Nazrin or Rinnosuke or Aya. For this run slot 12 has been THE DEBUFF SLOT. It was satisfyingly Hina for the whole game (and exclusively used Biorhythm and swapped out... I didn't think to sub her Herbalist for an eternity, such a missed opporitunity), but now it's... I dunno. It's often "oh, this boss has too much resist on atk/mag/spd debuffs, guess I'm not using Hina". Mystia maybe? Reisen maybe? Reisen's Magnificent Vertigo is enticing, although not critical because I use no status-reliant members; still, it'd help Miko/Reisen blast stats down fast before she swaps back out. Mystia is so hard to tell because it depends on what I'm fighting. Many fights are just MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS but the 28~29f bosses, not so much. Yet, I could just put Long Fall Boots on Renko and enjoy over 200 eva on a main tank. Although she does love that doubled First Aid Kit... oofph. Plus, Mystia's damage should actually be really solid in a pinch, with 35%+16% stat boost and top class level/library rates and a powerful attack with huge silence rate.
I've been effectively running an 11-man team for so long, when you consider Hina literally ONLY debuffed a boss and was practically a non-participant in randoms and resistant bosses. @.@ I guess in the end, it's hard to tell until the final stuff is out, how much evading will still happen. There wouldn't be much point in using Mystia in my debuff slot if people almost never evaded, and I don't use many of the high-eva characters, just Renko+Rumia and Rumia doesn't usually stay out long. Magnificent Vertigo+Sheer Force would let Mokou debuff the offense on basically anything with Iwakasa's, though... and Rumia's Awakened status/debuffs... hrm hrm.
I'm min-maxing too hard because I keep wanting to scratch the ThLaby2 itch but the patch isn't out yet. This is part of why I didn't play Plus Disk when it was originally released :VV I knew I'd hit the end of the released content and be like "AUGH BUT I WANT THE REST AUGH AUGH AUGH". And so I spend 10 more minutes grinding gems to calm down so I can do something else.
-
I hear you. I held off on playing for so long because I knew it wasn't finished and it'd drive me nuts to wait just to finish a playthrough in progress. I only caved and played because I was convinced the game was abandoned and the state it was in was all there would ever be, but go figure it updates while I'm in the process of playing and they get me anyway.
-
Which brings me to the final slot, that honestly, I've just been putting grind-beneficial characters in ever since hitting 30f, like Dowsing Nazrin or Rinnosuke or Aya. For this run slot 12 has been THE DEBUFF SLOT. It was satisfyingly Hina for the whole game (and exclusively used Biorhythm and swapped out... I didn't think to sub her Herbalist for an eternity, such a missed opporitunity), but now it's... I dunno. It's often "oh, this boss has too much resist on atk/mag/spd debuffs, guess I'm not using Hina". Mystia maybe? Reisen maybe?
Hm, as far as a replacement for Hina, I'd say go Reisen unless you're lacking an Instant Attack character, which Mystia would cover. Reisen's a fairly versatile and self-sufficient character. Debuffs and status effects, self-buffs, decent damage. Mystia's EVA debuff is a bit unreliable, it'll probably be difficult to apply more than a -20% debuff on a boss. Incidentally, I'm Fine Even by Myself works even with multiple Baka Quartet/Team 9 members in the party, so you can use it on both Rumia and Mystia if you do choose to use her.
Hard to say what kind of value debuffs has though, the only bosses I've specifically debuffed in Plus Disk were for setting up Iku's MND debuff doubling skill (the only boss where this is really useful is The Destroyer) and Serpent of Chaos to take a bit of the bite off of the Decomposition Breath, which would be unnecessary with the knowledge that Strategist's damage reduction was nonfunctional. And with how many characters can debuff on spare turns like Awakening Rumia, having a dedicated debuffer doesn't seem that necessary. The Destroyer is pretty much the only reason I'm using Reisen, figure it'll show up again if Corridor bosses repeat infinitely.
Also yeah, I'm a bit impatient on waiting for the next updates too. I've been planning out a NG+ playthrough for when the game is done being updated to try out new strategies and playstyles I've picked up on while also playing around with the changes, like the now functional Strategist damage reduction or Tenshi's Keystone Formation change. Makes it hard to concentrate on playing something else in the meantime now that the game's had two updates in the span of a month.
-
Just chiming in to say that, if an all-stats debuffer is what you're looking for, Awakened Miko is also a strong option which can fit in just about any team.
-
I've been using Miko, but I've just been spoiled by having a debuffer as insanely effective as Hina for the whole game, I guess >_> Her debuff accuracy is so far over 100% and subbed as hexer she debuffed by ~40% from a single proc. I want to punch through boss resistance and slam those stats down!! Most bosses have pretty high resistance to atk/mag/spd debuffs, y'know?
If I decided I was satisfied with the Miko I already have I'd probably just put Marisa in that slot. That display of Spark strength in endgame was just too good.
I think part of the reason people haven't been worried about debuffs on the later bosses is because the later bosses haven't... actually been terribly hard so far :V Kind of hoping that will be changing... the only things that get in the way are big gimmicks. Ever since Nitori got that scourge, bosses have mostly been a breeze. There's only like four fights after that which put up any real resistance, other than doing early corridor bosses at vastly underleveled amounts. The Destroyer, King, 28F stairs boss, and Serpent of Chaos. Even Serpent wasn't that bad once I was actually around his level, but that was mostly because Nitori blew it's face off way too fast.
Only The Destroyer gave me any -real- trouble, even then, the others just took two tries instead of one. Serpent of Chaos could at least hold rights that it gave me pause until I was actually around it's level though, but considering decomp breath one-shot everyone after space-time warp I mean what are you gonna do. Since, yeah- King/Dragon God
/Serpent of Chaos were only hard when they pull out their big gimmick and just annihilate you in one go. And Destroyer was only hard because it was so difficult to damage it, in a fight you absolutely have to end fast.
edit:I decided to test things out on some 29f bosses to see how much Reisen actually helped. I tried the red/green duo first... and... the difference was very minor. Maybe, uh, they weren't resistant enough to start with? >_> On the upside, Sheer Force Mokou's debuff had about 75% hit rate even without her!
Okay, Fundoshi Man was a better test. The effect is... appreciable enough. Mmm. Minor enough still that I think I'll want to wait and see how much can be dodged later. But it does make it so you can get -some- debuffs off on a boss with like 80~90 resist, especially via Reisen herself. Still, Mystia probably isn't amazingly effective unless you use many of the high eva characters (Renko/Rumia/Cirno/Alice/Koishi/Aya/Chen)
...maybe I should just put marisa there.
-
Updated exe
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AyBGvv5UVpWH-uuw1dACjFXkIUfh9S2Y
It's mostly minor fixes. I fixed a few typos I found while playing. Fixed some % issues, e.g. the Wood Blessing etc bonuses said "25hp" instead of "25% hp". Fixed some space issues. Fixed that random "k" showing on a lot of descriptions (that was entirely my fault...). Filled in some of the subclass MP costs.
-
Huzzah, typofixes!
Also, note for curiosity:Satori cannot "Recollection" subclass moves, but she DOES get to copy awakening spellcards, e.g. Miare's Great Knowledge, Yuuka Spark, etc. Unfortunately this is truly relevant with Yuuka and Kasen's awakening skills. But it does have good synergy with Kasen's Dragon and Tiger, given it's a unique self-buff that doesn't care about being lv0!
-
I know this is a bit irrelevant to the current discussion, but I'm having quite the trouble surviving the attacks of the 14-16F postgame bosses (Knowledge's Shadow, Azure Giant's Shadow and Black Goddess's Shadow). I haven't bothered with last 3 bosses yet.
My average level is 182 and my current team is:
Mokou, Guardian
Meiling, Warrior
Suika, Monk
Reisen, Hexer
Wriggle
Byakuren, Strategist
Rumia, Diva
Eirin, Healer
Sanae, Enchanter
Nitori, Trancendent
Flandre, Gambler
Yuuka, Sorcerer
I feel like I should note that I haven't installed the Plus Disc yet.
-
IMO, the standard postgame bosses are some of the roughest, and most unfair, in the game. Plus disk bosses have NOTHING on some of the harder ones here.
For instance, I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell against Knowledge's shadow without Guts users. These are extremely specific fights that want an extremely specific answer, if you're doing them at challenge level and without using some early Plus Disk equipment for an edge.
That said, 182 should be fine especially if you're willing to shift subclasses around or rotate in specific party members for specific fights (Tenshi for Azure Giant, Kasen for Knowledge's Shadow) to make things easier.
-
I know this is a bit irrelevant to the current discussion, but I'm having quite the trouble surviving the attacks of the 14-16F postgame bosses (Knowledge's Shadow, Azure Giant's Shadow and Black Goddess's Shadow). I haven't bothered with last 3 bosses yet.
My average level is 182 and my current team is:
Mokou, Guardian
Meiling, Warrior
Suika, Monk
Reisen, Hexer
Wriggle
Byakuren, Strategist
Rumia, Diva
Eirin, Healer
Sanae, Enchanter
Nitori, Trancendent
Flandre, Gambler
Yuuka, Sorcerer
I feel like I should note that I haven't installed the Plus Disc yet.
How are you distributing your level up bonuses and what are your library stats looking like? Are you making use of equipment to raise your affinities against the attacks each boss use? Keep in mind that having 100 in an affinity makes you take neutral damage from that element and by increasing it to 200 for example would make you take half as much damage.
It's especially important against the Giant as Rasetsu Fist ignores your defense and hits extremely hard.
For instance, I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell against Knowledge's shadow without Guts users.
You can shock it fairly easily if you sub any of the Sheer Force characters to Guardian and have Reisen in the frontline.
Edit - Corrected typo.
-
Another way I found of dealing with the Memorized Knowledge is using Satori, Aya and a healer, Satori with high HP and MYS affinity can take one Ether Flare thanks to Eyes that Perceive Reality while Aya switches people in and out.
-
So, I'm a little stuck. I beat the boss on B10, but I'm not sure what to do now. I'm still on ver 1.103, so if that's the reason I can't progress, then I'll just update. I'm a little reluctant to do so however, because I'm using an Earth Spirits Palace Party focused team, with Murakumo Satori as a main unit. The nerfs to extra attack would really hurt Rin's damage output, as well as the nerfs to subclass spells.
-
Anyone having trouble with the framerate? Occasional framerate drop for some spell is fine, but my game, at floor B6 which has
that sliding thing
, I'm playing at framerate around 42-43. My PC is not that bad, it can run medium graphics games like Dota 2 just fine. The dungeon effects are also off.
-
Anyone having trouble with the framerate? Occasional framerate drop for some spell is fine, but my game, at floor B6 which has that sliding thing
, I'm playing at framerate around 42-43. My PC is not that bad, it can run medium graphics games like Dota 2 just fine. The dungeon effects are also off.
It happens to me too. Not just with that floor, but with some other floors as well, and with some spellcards (such as Kasen's NTR attack, Nitori's Waterfall, Miko's Halo of the Guse Cannon, etc)
-
It happens to me too. Not just with that floor, but with some other floors as well, and with some spellcards (such as Kasen's NTR attack, Nitori's Waterfall, Miko's Halo of the Guse Cannon, etc)
Yeah, things are especially bad with Cirno and Kasen. Their main spells cause so much lag it's a bit frustrating to play.
Also, I just got that thing that gives 800%mag from !! chest in my new save, not even 10 floors into the infinite corridor. Never neglect !! chests.
My new save consists of Miko, Futo, Yakumo fam, Tenshi, Iku, Malice Cannon, Reimu, Sanae, Mamizou.
Yukari has been carrying this team so hard. That formula for shikigami: Ran hits super hard even against physical resist bosses, while Miko was useless for most of the game, even after she got all her skills. Mamizou is mediocre and Futo at least is pulling her weight with her 4 elements spells. Alice is still on the weak side after her buff in plus disk, I use her mostly for heavy aliment. This team also has trouble debuffing enemy's mind, yet has a lot of magic users (eventhough they can target def).
-
Mamizou is mediocre
I don't have high hopes for her, but an interesting way of trying her would be to use her along with the Eientei family. She makes for a good tank due to her huge HP score and -20% damage taken from her awakening, and Reisen's Intense Vertigo has strong synergy with her SHK-related abilities. Furthermore, Full Moon Pompolikin would hit for an extra +30% damage, which combined with the +40% from the awakening could lead to some decent results. The only issue, here, is that Mamizou herself does not bring much to Eientei (compared to, say, something like Reimu).
Miko feels a bit average for a large part of the game, though by the time you get her on 22F she should have a high enough level to pull her full weight. Her main use, to me, has been as a stat debuffer and piercing attacker (thanks to Asuka Heritage Attack).
Yakumo's Shikigami + is insane, I can confirm, and it only gets stronger as you keep levelling, like all high formula spells. In general, characters with high formulas scale much better past lvl 1000 than characters with high stats but average formulas (which is, again, why I feel Yuyuko and Youmu could still have potential... if only I could find room for them on my team lol. Maybe I could try removing Miko, but she's my only debuffer... ).
Finally, yes I think Alice just doesn't work that well due to her bad spellcards - if you want to use Marisa, you better use her alone since she doesn't rly need the speed buff that much anyway.
-
Hanged Hourai Dolls is actually really good in Plus Disc, where enemies are actually weak to MYS and don't all have ridiculous MND. She's definitely too reliant on landing HVY to be consistently useful before that point though.
-
I don't have high hopes for her, but an interesting way of trying her would be to use her along with the Eientei family. She makes for a good tank due to her huge HP score and -20% damage taken from her awakening, and Reisen's Intense Vertigo has strong synergy with her SHK-related abilities. Furthermore, Full Moon Pompolikin would hit for an extra +30% damage, which combined with the +40% from the awakening could lead to some decent results. The only issue, here, is that Mamizou herself does not bring much to Eientei (compared to, say, something like Reimu).
Miko feels a bit average for a large part of the game, though by the time you get her on 22F she should have a high enough level to pull her full weight. Her main use, to me, has been as a stat debuffer and piercing attacker (thanks to Asuka Heritage Attack).
Yakumo's Shikigami + is insane, I can confirm, and it only gets stronger as you keep levelling, like all high formula spells. In general, characters with high formulas scale much better past lvl 1000 than characters with high stats but average formulas (which is, again, why I feel Yuyuko and Youmu could still have potential... if only I could find room for them on my team lol. Maybe I could try removing Miko, but she's my only debuffer... ).
Finally, yes I think Alice just doesn't work that well due to her bad spellcards - if you want to use Marisa, you better use her alone since she doesn't rly need the speed buff that much anyway.
I played a new game+ save with plus disk character. So I used Miko right from level 1. Her heal was bad and her damage was worse. Right now at about lv 240 she's kinda ok, but I don't really need to bring her out to do much. Maybe she needs her awakening.
-
The Awakening helps, but unfortunately Miko's heal is always bad. Buffing it was one of the things I asked for in an e-mail to 3peso, but while they did implement many of the things I requested, a buff to Miko's heal was not one of those things implemented. Which is unfortunate, because it is really underpowered, weaker than most multi-target heals.
-
The Awakening helps, but unfortunately Miko's heal is always bad. Buffing it was one of the things I asked for in an e-mail to 3peso, but while they did implement many of the things I requested, a buff to Miko's heal was not one of those things implemented. Which is unfortunate, because it is really underpowered, weaker than most multi-target heals.
Interestingly enough, the MP heal seems to be 1 for every debuff/ailment the target is inflicted with, for a potential maximum of 10 MP recovery, the healing increase seems to be around 20-40% per ailment/debuff ( so it could technically increase by a lot). Its overall a pretty situational heal, just like Mystia's imo.
-
Miko's heal seems fine to me in endgame, considering a full MAG build (I don't see any reason to build her as a tank regardless). It might scale badly before that, though...
Alice's damage should be good so long as you're using Sorc and Marisa. Hanged Hourai Dolls is over 300% with row attack enhancement and she gets +30% off Marisa and +32% if you can activate Final Blow, and those are some winning numbers- she ignores a hunk of it's high mind factor and it's not a big problem in postgame in general. She does need final blow to -really- keep up with competition, unfortunately. Her enormous eva should be good if you're trying to use Mystia, tho.
Mamizou seems... average. HP and damage reduction is king in postgame, and she's got both, but other characters just... do it better? Her only real specialty is attaching any weakness on any skill, main or subclass, which is... convenient, and can combo well with elemental boost passives, but I'm not sure how much that really matters. Her stat layout doesn't work that great until endgame, so she belongs in postgame where she is.
Futo mostly comes into her own at like, lv500+ when she can afford her whole awakening set. I only barely decided to replace her with Mokou, it's easy to maintain 10 plates and she gets a helluva lotta boost from it. She's really averagey before awakening, though.
Still doubtful about Yuyuko having endgame potential. My characters with high level/library cost have depressingly poor stats, other than Miko possessing Maintennance. Eirin is still king because of overheal, but man are her stats garbage; it feels like those sorts of characters will only keep working if they have supremely good passives/skills, which to be fair, many of them do! e.g. Yukari.
A character I'd be curious about in NG+ is Tokiko. Her "regen when a sub-200 affininy is attacked" is good in maingame but useless in Plus. Try to activate reading once you can afford the buff sustainer, then use subclass support with her mp regen on hits. Koishi might work alright too since she can achieve eva scores that are absurd in maingame, even if her gimmicks are too expensive to learn.
-
Interestingly enough, the MP heal seems to be 1 for every debuff/ailment the target is inflicted with, for a potential maximum of 10 MP recovery, the healing increase seems to be around 20-40% per ailment/debuff ( so it could technically increase by a lot). Its overall a pretty situational heal, just like Mystia's imo.
I didn't know that Miko's heal scales with multiple status/debuffs, but hm, Miko's heal is about 1/4th the strength of Sanae's by default. It would take 10 status effects/debuffs to reach that level of healing, if it's a 40% increase per status/debuff. If it's 20% then it would only reach half that strength with 10 status effects and debuffs. That still seems underpowered for how restrictive it is. The MP recovery is more notable, but difficult to get an appreciable amount of use out of it.
Miko's heal seems fine to me in endgame, considering a full MAG build (I don't see any reason to build her as a tank regardless). It might scale badly before that, though...
Presently for me, even with a full MAG build (3x Tupsimati, MAG Mega Boost, Tokugawa) a buffless Miko only heals about 75% of Tenshi's HP without HP investment, and about 50% on my SPD tank setup for Iku. Sanae can full heal Tenshi with a SPD build (1 MGL and Tokugawa) and heal about 80% of Iku's HP. Since I'm always spamming Akyuu's Miare's Great Knowledge, Sanae can full heal Iku, but Miko would still only heal 75%.
But the important thing for me is that Miko is the most durable character in my party composition and is sometimes necessary to use as a tank. Like she was the only character in my party composition that could withstand the Dark Lord's Underworld Hammer "Grond" (although this might not necessarily be true with the now functional Strategist damage reduction and Dragon God's Power's equivalent). Maxing out her HP (Regalia/Medicine of Life/MGL), she's healing herself for about 11% of her HP without buffs, while Sanae can heal Miko for about 45% under the same setup. With 86% MAG buffs and Miare's Great Knowledge, Sanae would be able to full heal Miko while Miko would only be able to heal about 28%. And Minoriko has even stronger heals than Sanae (not to mention she self-buffs her MAG), so it's not like Sanae is special here.
So it's basically like, Sanae with an HP or SPD build still has enough healing power to full heal dedicated tanks as long as she's buffed, while Miko with the same build and buffs doesn't even reach a third of a full heal. Even with Healer she wouldn't be able to heal much more than 33%. Of course, all these numbers are without factoring in the status effect/debuff scaling, but that doesn't really help much.
-
Unbuffed Miko heals 1/3rd of my First Aid Kit Renko, the highest hp character in my party. That may sound poor, but it's nearly a fullheal for any non-tank member of my party (without buffs!), and reasonably she'll usually heal 2/3+rds of any non-Renko tank with some buffing.
This is at average party level ~1500, Miko's stats here http://puu.sh/AQuiW.png (edit:okay I guess she had 16% buffs because sorc lol)
By the way THANKS FOR REMINDING ME I NEED TO GIVE SANAE SOME MAG LOL. She has like 20k mag. I forgot she wants to like, HEAL. MAG-build Miko still heals more than tank build Sanae after I tweaked up her MAG, though. Only by like 15~20%, but yeah. ...I guess without Sorc it'd be about even, then.
edit:Miko also gets meikyo shisui buffs... lol. She heals 1m without -any- of that on, which is just a hair less than Sanae is. So many buffs augh! Most of my party has ~1.6m hp, Sanae and Akyuu have 2.7, and Renko is 3.6m. Rumia heals 1.2m, more than either. MAG-Mari heals... 650k without Renko out, lol.
-
Well, Sanae and Minoriko can get full heals on those tanks with some buffs instead of 2/3rds, which was kind of my point. Though you reminded me that I forgot to swap Tokugawa Statue with First-Aid Kit when checking tank Miko's HP, she would actually heal less than 10% of her own HP with a proper tank build without buffs. Less with 2x Medicine of Life, which I should have used in the first place in this example, as that was how I set her up for the Dark Lord.
So uh, guess a visual example would be good.
Miko (tank build): https://i.imgur.com/l5hFMZS.png
Sanae (MAG build): https://i.imgur.com/Gy8Ibnz.png
Yasaka healing (no MAG buff or Boost): https://i.imgur.com/8JDmMGH.png
The healing variance was a little favorable though. Healing is pretty easy to calculate since there's no DEF or MND reduction, it's a fairly simple character stat * multiplier. The average healing power for Sanae in this setup is 3.1m without buffs. With a SPD/tank build (Tokugawa and 1 MGL) Sanae can get 1.1m average heals. With a max MAG build Miko can get an 825K average, accounting for Divinely Appointed Stateswoman. With the above tank build Miko gets 175K heals (also with DAS). All of the numbers are prior to buffs, and Miko is set to Transcendent while Sanae is Enhancer.
As another example, Rumia gets 990K heals with a max MAG build and no buffs (besides I'm Fine Even by Myself) as an Enhancer, and that's MT.
-
Well, Sanae and Minoriko can get full heals on those tanks with some buffs instead of 2/3rds, which was kind of my point.
I guess that's fair, but given it's low strength, I think it's pretty clear it's meant to be a utility option for offensive miko rather than actually encouraging Miko-tank. Other than sheer bulk, she brings pretty little to the table anyway; in Laby2, bulk isn't enough to really make someone a good tank outside of very specific situations like trying to survive supernukes you aren't necessarily meant to handle. Grond is soooo slow it literally has a designated chargeup move. XD
-
I played a new game+ save with plus disk character. So I used Miko right from level 1. Her heal was bad and her damage was worse. Right now at about lv 240 she's kinda ok, but I don't really need to bring her out to do much. Maybe she needs her awakening.
I, too, used her since lvl 1 a few times. For me, she started performing well after lvl 40-50 or so - after she gets at least OOPART and Asuka Heritage Attack (so, around F13-15). By then, however, her piercing ability will truly start to shine, as well as her debuffing potential.
-
I guess that's fair, but given it's low strength, I think it's pretty clear it's meant to be a utility option for offensive miko rather than actually encouraging Miko-tank. Other than sheer bulk, she brings pretty little to the table anyway; in Laby2, bulk isn't enough to really make someone a good tank outside of very specific situations like trying to survive supernukes you aren't necessarily meant to handle. Grond is soooo slow it literally has a designated chargeup move. XD
Thing about Grond is that if you want to avoid any characters getting incapacitated, you do have to have a way to survive it, which is different from most other super power attacks that have alternative ways to deal with them, like Scourge's low Hit or Desire Eating Demon having 0 SHK resistance. So I think it's fair to assume that you're intended to be able to withstand it. I try to do runs with 0 character losses, but the game isn't necessarily meant to be played like that. That aside, Miko actually does make a pretty good tank character beyond stats since she can heal (obviously), debuff and remove buffs, and has her +16% buff effect passive while on the frontline, as opposed to 8% when in the back. She's not exactly ideal compared to Akyuu, Satori, or Sanae, but she's solid and probably the most useful all-debuffing character as a tank, aside from Rumia for Human enemies.
But anyway, I guess if you have Miko with a max MAG build with high buffs and Boost she could heal semi-tanky builds properly, but using an attacker for that purpose is pretty questionable, since that's sacrificing a damage dealer's turn for something that a support character could do just as well or better. I mean, Sanae's still a better healer with a SPD/tank build and Rumia can heal more HP for the full party. Think even Rinnosuke's heal is stronger, but I haven't checked. Healer's Prayer of Recovery is certainly stronger.
Like, I'm not denying that it's a utility option, but even with all that she isn't fully healing moderately tanky characters, which is a liability against bosses with strong attacks. Taking Ryujin-sama for example, the red phase hits extremely hard. If a tank loses say 90% of their HP in one hit, then Miko won't be able to preserve them with her 60-80% heals. Even some Abyss bosses like Momiji and Kogasa hit tanks for numbers that Miko wouldn't be able to keep up with very well, it's not that uncommon to see a single target move rip off a huge amount of HP.
Anyway, I'm just saying Miko's heal could use a buff. Not to Sanae or Minoriko levels, of course. Presently the formula is apparently 25% MAG, something like 40-50% MAG should be fine.
Though I'm not gonna ask 3peso again or anything, I already put that out there and it wasn't done, so that's that as far as I'm concerned.
-
Just found out that Byakure'ns Skanda's Legs is still bugged and doesn't increase the SPD buff when killing an enemy, the base SPD buff is 11+1 per level.
-
can anyone think of a more completely irrelevant move effect? :getdown: I am not surprised it never got the attention, what would be more surprising is if anyone legitimately cared past the principle of it
OK, I guess if you do NG+, offensive Byakuren is legitimate for a good hunk of the game. Playing normally tho... and even then, like, it only factors in random battles where a somewhat higher speed buff after killing an enemy is like, nothing : VV
-
Mystia's Mysterious Song seems to be a % based heal, 35+5 per level % (so 60% HP at max level), the heal also doesn't scale with how many status effects you remove.
-
Somehow; I managed to miss that the Plus Disc came out for this. I'd been waiting for a finished English Translation and the Plus Disc. I think I just forgot to keep checking.
So yeah. Now it's time to give LoT2 an actual try. I tried it before for a few floors before the Plus Disc.
I know this game is a lot deeper than the first game. And now it's not moonrunes all over I might be able to figure out half of what's going on.
-
Somehow; I managed to miss that the Plus Disc came out for this. I'd been waiting for a finished English Translation and the Plus Disc. I think I just forgot to keep checking.
So yeah. Now it's time to give LoT2 an actual try. I tried it before for a few floors before the Plus Disc.
I know this game is a lot deeper than the first game. And now it's not moonrunes all over I might be able to figure out half of what's going on.
And the Plus Disk is amazing. It is bigger than main game, and there will be one more patch soon with content for two final post game dungeon levels and with new bosses for Infinite Corridor.
-
Hmm, after awakening Youmu, should regeneration be skilled at all? It seems to work against the 1 hp gimmick she has going. Pretty sure the answer is no, but just to be sure.
Somehow; I managed to miss that the Plus Disc came out for this. I'd been waiting for a finished English Translation and the Plus Disc. I think I just forgot to keep checking.
So yeah. Now it's time to give LoT2 an actual try. I tried it before for a few floors before the Plus Disc.
I know this game is a lot deeper than the first game. And now it's not moonrunes all over I might be able to figure out half of what's going on.
The best thing about this game IMO is the customization. You have great selections of choices for your team and almost anything can work.
-
Hmm, after awakening Youmu, should regeneration be skilled at all? It seems to work against the 1 hp gimmick she has going. Pretty sure the answer is no, but just to be sure.
Yeah, there's no reason to level her Regeneration since you want her to stay at 1 HP for the damage boost.
-
So; I'm crawling through the game between work shifts and real life stuff. I haven't got that far yet. [Only on Floor 3; noticed a little bit of a spike in the strength of the mobs]. Also I'm playing on Hard Mode since I have some experience with LoT mechanics and I'd want the bonus drops for challenge levels with bosses anyway.
Firstly; man; I can't get any Great Tree Leaves to drop. I know I need 3 to recruit Minoriko. I've been grinding out Fairy kills and raising my consecutive wins and I've only got 1. Is there something better to try and get Great Leaves from other than F1~2 Fairies?
Secondly; I'm finding some characters a lot more useful than I ever did in LoT1; which I'm finding quite pleasing. Perhaps I'm rotateing characters more due to MP/SP changes.
Specifically my opinions on each character at such an early stage:
Reimu - Really suffers from MP issues with her heals/buffs. I do find her handy to occasionally use to clear trash with Fantasy Seal however, and of course; the healing she can throw out in bosses is good; just without me having recruited Minoriko yet and her mana issues I've had a couple of fights where I've simply run out of heals and my tanks died.
Marisa - Yep; this is definitely Marisa. Strong MYS nukes and nothing else really. Dosen't have enough MP to Master Spark yet.
Rinnosuke - MAN this guy is useless. A very tiny heal that dosen't even make 10% of Momiji/Youmu's HP. He can throw out some baby buffs and that's about it. I mostly use him only when someone else needs to restore MP in slot 1/2/3 and throw out what little he can do while he's basically being a meatshield.
Keine - I actually have her in slot 2 the majority of the time. Her buffs and MP pool make her a lot more reliable than Reimu at boss-buffing, and she's alright at doing some work on trash; especially SPI-element.
Kogasa - Oh god she's surprising me is this meta? Kogasa is awesome. Probobly my hardest hitter, great range of elements, status; and for some reason using Concentrate on her fully restores her MP and she dosen't even burn it that quickly. She's in my general trash clearing team too since she tends to have her turn early so she can concentrate if low on MP.
Momiji - She's a tank. Not much else to say.
Rumia - Also surprising me. Moonlight Ray gives Marisa a run for her money; and Dark Side of the Moon is proving rather useful as a cheap attack-all. Demarkation heals are a nice bonus too... although I'm not quite sure why Rumia is a healer.
Cirno - Surprisingly useful for trash fights when someone else is low on MP. Also; I seem to recall CLD not being that useful in LoT1 but it seems more useful here. And obviously; debuffs!
Youmu - Probably the character I am using the least; even less than Rinnosuke. Her damage output is... lower than I'd expect. She's less tanky than Momiji; and her MP costs/pool are disgusting.
I managed to defeat the F2 FoE at Lv 6. I *think* that was significantly under the level requirement considering I was almost dead when I killed it; but Kogasa/Rumia combo was putting out tons of damage.
If I recall from my breif time playing LoT pre-plus disc; the F3 boss is Komachi who's pretty bull and RNG with her Insta-death effects. Looking foward to that fight. @_@
-
3peso tweeted the next patch should be out this month probably and is likely the last patch, barring bug patching that is.
-
That means patch in a week or two. Hype!
Re:Raikaria, CLD was good in LoT1 (actually, like half of the bosses were weak to it!) but Cirno's damage just... wasn't good. It's a lot more usable here. You probably remember CLD as underwhelming because the only good CLD attack is in postgame, on a meh character. :V Also yeah, Youmu is depressingly underwhelming. Her awakening is amazing and she gets lv9 attacks, but she's just terrible until late plus- expensive slow attacks that aren't any stronger than your other characters, with no particularly impressive passive other than making a good tank vs. Komachi with all the right resistances. Rinnosuke thankfully scales up faster than that; he has really good passive skills like Efficient Formation Change and the high boosts make him mega tanky once you can actually afford a few of them at once.
-
Yeah; I managed to beat Komachi on my 2nd attempt. The first attempt Minoriko got DTH'ed and Komachi decided to whack Reimu, giving me no good way to keep Youmu up.
The 2nd attempt... Minoriko still got DTH'ed, but this time Reimu didn't get smacked; and Marisa/Rumia were putting out enough damage that I managed to bring her down.
Komachi was as far as I got before because I didn't have an English patch that was completed at that time so Komachi was pretty much a brick wall since I couldn't find what items had DTH resistance :V
Can't bring down the Lesser Golem yet however. It just hits too hard and I can't kill it even with Rumia before it decides to smack someone who isn't Momiji with a PHY-resist item.
-
3peso tweeted the next patch should be out this month probably and is likely the last patch, barring bug patching that is.
Hmm, from the wording of the tweet it sounds like it might be better to report bug fixes before the update rolls out so that they can have more of a break. It would probably feel bad if they received reports on a bunch of bugs and desired balance changes soon after they finished the final update.
-
Rinnosuke's real utility is Effective Formation Change, which is very nice for hit-and-run with fragile characters. He basically requires high affinity boost in order to be really durable though.
-
Hmm, from the wording of the tweet it sounds like it might be better to report bug fixes before the update rolls out so that they can have more of a break. It would probably feel bad if they received reports on a bunch of bugs and desired balance changes soon after they finished the final update.
Yes- and it's understandable, considering how many YEARS he's been working on the game post-release. Probably just wants to be done.
-
Oh man. Hard Mode's a pain in the ass, it really screws over fast levelers and makes it real easy to overshoot literally every fight in the game if you dare to use one, just adds a lot of tedious micromanaging and only veeeerry slightly actually increses difficulty over just, playing normal and meeting challenge level requirements anyway.
Hope you enjoy the game, though. I like 2 much, much more than the original. It may not be as difficult at parts (for instance, there's no real equivalent to Rinnosuke's boss fight
from the first game in this one,) and the QoL changes such as being able to very clearly see enemy HP and weak affinities make it easier than ever to nuke bosses down if you know what you're doing, and reallocating levelup bonuses make it possible to minmax for each specific fight in a way you could not in LoT1. But on the other hand this one is just so much more polished and offers so many more choices to you on how to play it that I just can't go back to the original.
-
That means patch in a week or two. Hype!
You mean a year or two
-
That means patch in a week or two. Hype!
Re:Raikaria, CLD was good in LoT1 (actually, like half of the bosses were weak to it!) but Cirno's damage just... wasn't good. It's a lot more usable here. You probably remember CLD as underwhelming because the only good CLD attack is in postgame, on a meh character. :V Also yeah, Youmu is depressingly underwhelming. Her awakening is amazing and she gets lv9 attacks, but she's just terrible until late plus- expensive slow attacks that aren't any stronger than your other characters, with no particularly impressive passive other than making a good tank vs. Komachi with all the right resistances. Rinnosuke thankfully scales up faster than that; he has really good passive skills like Efficient Formation Change and the high boosts make him mega tanky once you can actually afford a few of them at once.
I second the "youmu is really bad until late post game". In my new save featuring team9, scarlets except flan and yuyuko, she's not been pulling her weight until the awakening and that's like 80% the game. All points into atk and even with a bit more library levels than her peers in effort to try to make her work, she just doesn't work. Her damage cannot pierce through the harder early game bosses (mirror, tenshi, magatama etc.) and still dies in one or two hits since all points have to go into atk just to barely go through the defense. She's basically a dead slot, unless I make her a support character subbing toxicologist for heavy, which my team lacks. But pretty sure there are so many characters that are better for that.
Post-awakening, her awakening is good enough to put her on par with most characters. But there are so many good PHY attackers in this game that requires no awakening and is useful from the beginning till the very end (yuugi with her heavy and powerful PHY card and PHY buffing skill, nitori cuz nitori, meiling cuz meiling, yukari with her team and superb support skills to go along with it). It's sad when the only blademaster in gensoukyo (not unless you count tenshi a blademaster, but tenshi doesn't use only her blade for her attacks) can't even beat body users(meiling, yuugi). All those training hasn't been paying off, and she's mocked even in the story. Reimu and Marisa only see her as a vine cutter. With that kind of damage before awakening, I can see why. Trained all her life with a sword that's supposed to cut through anything, just to deal 0 damage with huge delay and uses up all her mp, without any way to support her peers.
Shame that slash of eternity has a really cool effect. :(
-
How does Heavy and Silence stack with normal stat debuffs? 100% defense reduction or 75%? Probably, main game was balanced around that idea some since it's one of the things in which 2 differs from 1. Falls kind of flat when not every boss can be afflicted with those though. Really, I would prefer all the bosses to be vulnerable to silence, heavy, and terror and make poison resistance for enemies only reduce the damage instead of the chance of applying.
-
I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure the effects are multiplicative, so 75%.
-
Wait, are heavy and silence's stat debuffs that powerful? o.o I was never really sure how much of an effect they had, but I never used a team that was particularly good at inflicting them either.
-
Yeah they're nice when the enemy resists stat debuffs. Status effects are generally very powerful when they land.
Now that I check, there is some conflicting information between the English and Jp wikis. English wiki says silence is -12% mag debuff while jp says it's -20%. Jp wiki doesn't say anything about stat decrease from poison and it says terror is -8% instead of 5% like the English one. Seems difficult to check and the difference probably isn't enough to matter.
-
I second the "youmu is really bad until late post game". In my new save featuring team9, scarlets except flan and yuyuko, she's not been pulling her weight until the awakening and that's like 80% the game. All points into atk and even with a bit more library levels than her peers in effort to try to make her work, she just doesn't work. Her damage cannot pierce through the harder early game bosses (mirror, tenshi, magatama etc.) and still dies in one or two hits since all points have to go into atk just to barely go through the defense. She's basically a dead slot, unless I make her a support character subbing toxicologist for heavy, which my team lacks. But pretty sure there are so many characters that are better for that.
Post-awakening, her awakening is good enough to put her on par with most characters. But there are so many good PHY attackers in this game that requires no awakening and is useful from the beginning till the very end (yuugi with her heavy and powerful PHY card and PHY buffing skill, nitori cuz nitori, meiling cuz meiling, yukari with her team and superb support skills to go along with it). It's sad when the only blademaster in gensoukyo (not unless you count tenshi a blademaster, but tenshi doesn't use only her blade for her attacks) can't even beat body users(meiling, yuugi). All those training hasn't been paying off, and she's mocked even in the story. Reimu and Marisa only see her as a vine cutter. With that kind of damage before awakening, I can see why. Trained all her life with a sword that's supposed to cut through anything, just to deal 0 damage with huge delay and uses up all her mp, without any way to support her peers.
Shame that slash of eternity has a really cool effect. :(
Well, in the first game, Youmu she was far and away one of the best attackers in the game, period (only Nitori and Suwako clearly surpassed her, and Suwako was way too frail for fights like WINNER anyway). I suppose this is her "punishment"^^ Then again, some other chars like the aforementioned Nitori and Suwako were not punished this harshly, it seems only Youmu and Yuyuko (who, again, was the strongest magical user in the original game but now... isn't) got the short end of the stick :-/
-
Hmm, from the wording of the tweet it sounds like it might be better to report bug fixes before the update rolls out so that they can have more of a break.
Following up on this, I think this is everything mentioned so far that seems important to bring up before the final update.
-The adjustment to Aya's spell card "Divine Grandson's Advent" didn't take place.
-Tenshi's Awakening skill "Keypoints of Spirit" accumulates counters when Tenshi attacks enemies with elements they resist.
-Tenshi's "Keypoints of Spirit" counter is reduced by 1 when she is switched to the backline.
-The game crashes when switching a character with the skill "Instant Attack" from the backline into an empty character slot in the frontline.
-When the skill "Instant Attack" reduces TP to 0, a visual glitch occurs and distorts the 0.
-Byakuren's Awakening skill "Blood of Superhuman" does not fully restore her HP if healed by a % based healing spell card.
-If a character is defeated in battle, their MP spent in battle is restored after battle.
-A UI glitch occurs when characters survive the DTH status with skills such as "Guts" that causes the DTH icon to remain.
-Murakumo Blessing's subclass skill "Three Swords of Divine Era" increases the power of the Attack command when it specifies spell cards.
-Dragon God Power's subclass skill "Divine Protection of Water" removes debuffs when the description specifies abnormal status conditions.
-The SIL effect of Kokoro's spell card "Four Humors Possession" while under the effect of the Pathos mask is abnormally low.
-Rinnosuke's Awakening spell card "Precise Experience" removes enemy debuffs.
-"Chireiden Party" increases by an additional level if "Proof of Kinship" is learned.
-Akyuu's spell cards "Protecting Art of Wisdom" and "Guarding Art of Wisdom" do not benefit from increasing skill level.
-Yukari's spell card "Mesh of Light and Darkness" appears to have an abnormally high SPD debuff effect.
-Meiling's "Chinese Girl's Qigong" counter does not decrease when attacking.
-Elementalist's subclass spells are described as VOI element, but are each FIR, CLD, WND, and NTR element respectively.
-Kanako's spell card "Beautiful Spring like Suiga" does not properly demonstrate its ATK/MAG debuff effect.
-Yuyuko's spell card "Ghastly Dream" improperly demonstrates its ATB reduction effect. Instead of reducing the ATB of all of the affected enemies, the effect is applied to the target enemy repeatedly.
-Byakuren's spell card "Skanda's Legs" does not receive an increased SPD buff effect when defeating an enemy with it.
-If possible, please reduce the number of bright flashes from interacting with events in the Infinite Corridor.
If there's anything else that should be added, please bring it up! I'd like to focus on bug fixes and potential oversights, important things like that. Balance is important, but not as much, and I think it would be better to see how 3peso feels about balancing the game after they've released the next update. I think it would be bad to ask too much of them right now. Some relevant things like Shadow Kokoro's missing sprite and Koishi missing Proof of Kinship was brought up in my previous e-mail to them so I'm not going to bring them up again. I'll try to have an e-mail written up within the following 2 days.
-
-The game crashes when switching a character with the skill "Instant Attack" from the backline into an empty character slot in the frontline.
Specifically it crashes when you select an empty front line slot first and then an instant attack character.
-
A bug that has been in the game for a while but never got fixed is the fact that the "Consecutive Battles" bonus doesn't get reset if you go to "Options" and then select "Back to Title".
-
A bug that has been in the game for a while but never got fixed is the fact that the "Consecutive Battles" bonus doesn't get reset if you go to "Options" and then select "Back to Title".
For this matter, do the conseccutive battle bonuses/passive bonus items even work? I have noticed when fighting enemies that give a nice, rounded number of EXP/Money that it's always the SAME rounded EXP/Money. I suspect none of it works, and the only way to actually increase the payout from fighting are active moves like Nazrin/Shou's stuff.
-
I imagine the bonus just applies after; it would be ridiculous if the entire system had been totally nonfunctional since the beginning, after so long.
Also, Nazrin/Shou/Rinnosuke etc just add onto the bonus number you see on the end screen, afaik. Since that number decreases if I remove them from the front lines. It's more or less a jump start for your consecutive bonus.
edit:oh wait you mean their moves with kill bonuses. yes that is different :getdown:
-
OK I got everything I posted written up, added the details I accidentally omitted about Instant Attack's game crashing bug, and added the consecutive battle carryover bug Libra mentioned. I omitted mentioning DGP's Divine Protection of Water omitting debuffs because I think it's just a minor misunderstanding of the text, as some other skills also refer to both status abnormalities and debuffs as status abnormalities, like Akyuu's skill Memories of Gensokyo (in her case, they're specified as negative status abnormalities). I also reread Tenshi's Keypoints of Spirit skill description and realized that it's supposed to go down by 1 when she switches into the back. Somehow I didn't notice that, and the EN wiki's description missed that part too. But its effect is still bugged in that if Tenshi is switched from one frontline slot to another, the counter still goes down by 1. So I mentioned that instead.
I'll send the e-mail in the next 20 or so hours, adding anything else that might be mentioned.
--
On the topic of the passive EXP/money thing, the effects are properly applied, but the game only shows your base rewards in the rewards screen. Checking your EXP/money after battle confirms the effects are working as intended.
-
Apparently, Youmu and Yuyuko's post-awakening synergy skill "Hakugyoukurou's Master and Servant" is not working as intended. Not sure if the text is intended to be invisible while the stats are still applied.
Also did a further testing, this bug same applies with Komachi and Eiki's post-awakening synergy skill "Enma and Shinigami".
-
I also wanted to specify that Proof of Kinship works properly with the Earth Spirits Palace Party when the characters are in the back (so if Satori/Utsuho/Rin is in the front and the other 3 members are in the back, they get a level 3 counter), but increases by one more level that it should per member in the front (if you have all the members in the frontline, they will get a level 9 counter instead of a level 6 counter).
On a different note, I noticed that Proof of Kinship has no effect if the character hasn't maxed the appropiate "family" skill, probably because at level 1 the latter gives 1 counter per member and Proof of Kinship rounds 0.5 down to 0. Probably working as intended.
-
I think the clearest way to word it is: With [Earth Spirits family], Proof of Kinship erroneously activates for family members in the front line, in addition to the back.
-
Ah, I omitted it in my description of the bug here, but I did mention that it's specifically for frontline characters in the e-mail draft. The wording I used was basically "Characters that acquire both 'Chireiden Party' and 'Proof of Kinship' are abnormally strengthened by vanguard Chireiden members". Since my Japanese is bad I wasn't sure how to be more specific about how exactly it affects them, but I think that conveys what the bug is and what it does.
-
Ah, I omitted it in my description of the bug here, but I did mention that it's specifically for frontline characters in the e-mail draft. The wording I used was basically "Characters that acquire both 'Chireiden Party' and 'Proof of Kinship' are abnormally strengthened by vanguard Chireiden members". Since my Japanese is bad I wasn't sure how to be more specific about how exactly it affects them, but I think that conveys what the bug is and what it does.
Send me a copy and I'll give it a lookover for you.
-
Stupid question, but I'm playing this for the first time and loving it and just wanted to check to see if my understanding on how much content the plus disk added is correct. The wiki shows it adds 20 floors in total, is this correct? That seems like an absolutely absurd amount of content to be added, especially considering how long the main game seems to be, and if the floors continue increasing in size and complexity as they have in the main game.
-
Sorry to interrupt everyone, but we are close to 1000 posts here, so...
Here is the link to the next one. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,21518.0.html) I'll see you all there.
-
Sorry, please delete this post :) I just noticed the new 18th thread. Sorry for the lack of reading comprehension :)