| c85 Touhou 2272 Kuroko's Basketball 1462 kancolle 1136 c89 kancolle 2747 Touken Ranbu 1724 Touhou 1666 idolmaster 1325 | c86 kancolle 2038 touhou 1918 Kuroko's Basketball 1444 c90 Kancolle - 2678 Touhou - 1625 Touken Rabou - 1482 IdolMaster - 1328 | c87 kancolle 2552 Touhou 1756 Kuroko's Basketball 1178 c91 kancolle 2824 touhou 1623 touken ranbu 1501 idolmaster 1479 | c88 Kancolle - 2566 Touhou - 1508 IdolMaster - 1186 c92 kancolle 2329 touhou 1320 Idolmaster 1299 Touken Ranbu 1244 Fate series 1129 |
As for my first point, I don't think it's too difficult to see Touhou as a series as old and stale. As a series it is ever expanding, but not evolving. Negative Continuity, is a problem for the series.
Especially after the MoF-TD chain showed the series can work with storyline continuity, only for ZUN to backflop back into the old way of having each game having nothing to do with each other. You can retcon completely any game from DDC to HSDS and it would not affect the series universe at allAre you kidding me?
And the characters aren't much better either. For the most part, most of the series' characters remain unchanged since their debut (if they are ever seen again).I don't see why thats a problem for the Doujin community, i mean, most Touhou Doujin generally focus on girls kissing girls, I don't think canonical character development is really needed for that kind of stuff, especially in a fandom that often ignores canon for its own fanon.
Actually I see on twitter that someone says Touhou fanbase is actually shifting to young girls instead of grownup male otaku. While they probably don't play the games, this might be the first step of Touhou becoming "mainstream".Or its death knell. As they grow up, will they still be interested in the series? My bets are on probably not. And, will the next class of young girls will take on the same interests as their seniors? That bit of prediction is foggy, at best.
Or its death knell. As they grow up, will they still be interested in the series? My bets are on probably not. And, will the next class of young girls will take on the same interests as their seniors? That bit of prediction is foggy, at best.
Or its death knell. As they grow up, will they still be interested in the series? My bets are on probably not. And, will the next class of young girls will take on the same interests as their seniors? That bit of prediction is foggy, at best.And Kancolle will fare better in the future?
Most of the counter-arguments so far don't tell me anything. Sure it may still be going strong now, but how does it compare to how it used to be months or years ago? Or against other series on equal footing? Without trends for comparison, it's all meaningless. Something can still have a good fan base and yet still be "over-the-hill" in terms of its fame.
Most of the counter-arguments so far don't tell me anything.The counter-arguments show you that your arguments are bad, and you are formulating your general conclusion primarily by trying to conform reality to your personal waning interest.
Here's a comparison for the last few years. (http://imgur.com/a/Z1IWe) I hope I have set this up correctly. Not sure if any clear prognosis can be deduced from the graph. Kancolle has greater dips and peaks than Touhou does, and seems to be dropping below Touhou as of late, but both are in steady decline since 2015. Either way, the graph does not reflect the Comiket numbers given in the OP at all, which does seem to indicate that a significant portion of Touhou fan activity has moved to dedicated events.
Most of the counter-arguments so far don't tell me anything. Sure it may still be going strong now, but how does it compare to how it used to be months or years ago? Or against other series on equal footing? Without trends for comparison, it's all meaningless. Something can still have a good fan base and yet still be "over-the-hill" in terms of its fame.
Trends uses a kind of relative scoring system where the top is 100, it isn't absolute numbers. It's also not all that useful for making any sort of judgment, although you can glean some context out of the different kinds of searches. With web searches alone you will probably not get a whole lot of Touhou searches because typically there aren't a whole lot of websites that people aim to search for; meanwhile Kancolle has plenty of reason for people to be searching websites. Meanwhile if you look exclusively at Youtube searches you'll find that Touhou dominates, not only for the obvious reason of Touhou's heavy basis in visual media but also because Kancolle doesn't have much emphasis on it (the amount of videos it even has is impressive tbh). If you look at image searches funnily enough you might be getting the most reasonable comparison, where they both match up pretty well with Touhou having a slight but fairly consistent lead.
ZUN doesn't shit out characters at the rate FGO/KC do, but it at least seems clear from this (relatively small) userbase on Danbo that people are plenty interested when he does.
This is pretty much the key to the fandom success of most of the bigger mobas. They pump and dump dozens, if not hundreds of characters in a year. Most of them tend to have...reasonably flimsy backgrounds and characters, which leave a lot of space to jam in your favoritetropesfanons. And they tend to be sexualized a great deal more than ZUN's base designs. As well, they generally have some sort of Player Avatar character, which makes for instant easy het shipping (something Touhou stuff has struggled with and generally defaulted to either Rinnosuke or Faceless guy #1-#10). So they're primed for people to take advantage of if a character catches the public fancy.
This is probably by design!
and yet even with this, they have trouble against one dude doing whatever he feels like with his sandbox worldWell, Touhou had a massive headstart. Touhou had a lot of time to establish its characters, setting, and lores. By the time those games have to start from scratch, Touhou already had its stable footing.
Without Touhou, there would have been nothing to stop Naruto from taking over the doujin scene as well!!!It's already too late for Fanfiction.net...
So if we add up all Touhou doujins from TH-exclusive events would that make for a more accurate representation of Touhou's popularity?
Is FGO really that popular? To me it seemed more like a fad akin to pokemon go rather than a thing with a large, strong, steady fanbase. Fate as a whole has a decent fanbase, but... again, comparing it to pokemon go, pokemon has a pretty huge fanbase but that wasn't enough to keep pokemon go popular for long.Popular enough to get a Day 1 spot for the next Comiket, which is something.
Though I could be really off the mark about it, which is why I'm asking.
Kinda weird that you have to go through so many hoops to judge Touhou's popularity though.If just typing in "Touhou" on the search trends page on google is "going through so many hoops" for you then idk what to say. And really its hard to give solid, actual, proof of somethings popularity without having to look up statistics or anything. You cant just ask someone "YO IS TOUHOU POPULAR OR WHAT?" and then expect that persons answer to be 100% true and without any basis.
Stock anti-patriotism rantDo you expect people to just stop being tribalistic on a dime? There are national grudges going back centuries that people are still fighting and killing over. While yes, military worship is a serious social problem, it's not what will stop Kancolle. What will stop it is something that beats it at its own strength - mass production and branding of easily accessible blank-slate waifus. Which sure sounds like FGO to me.
Is FGO really that popular? To me it seemed more like a fad akin to pokemon go rather than a thing with a large, strong, steady fanbase. Fate as a whole has a decent fanbase, but... again, comparing it to pokemon go, pokemon has a pretty huge fanbase but that wasn't enough to keep pokemon go popular for long.Pokemon Go surged fast but within 6 months or so it was pretty much off the radar.
Though I could be really off the mark about it, which is why I'm asking.
Do you expect people to just stop being tribalistic on a dime? There are national grudges going back centuries that people are still fighting and killing over.No, i expect people to realize that a empire that raped, killed, stole, burn, and tortured its way through the pacific shouldn't be fetishized into cute ship girls.
No, i expect people to realize that a empire that raped, killed, stole, burn, and tortured its way through the pacific shouldn't be fetishized into cute ship girls.See, if you want to make this argument, we're not the people you have to convince that conquering is bad. You'd have to ask the main audience in Japan to actively turn their backs on both their own nation's naval pride and more importantly their waifus. And well, good luck with that.
I don't think we should turn this thread into "Kancolle shitting thread".I think you already did...
Japan is neither the first nor the last country to gloss over and/or glorify it's past crimes against others, war-crimes or otherwise. As much as I hate how Kantai blatantly ignores the history of the ships the girls are based off in favor of one-dimensional "dere" personalities, it's a moot point to argue about it so long as their audience doesn't care.
pr0npr0n site with aim on more wider audience(as wiki states lol) they definitely seems prosper, but the fan service they provide make me wonder what kind of wider audience do they mean, like, apple don't fall far from the tree.
Actually I see on twitter that someone says Touhou fanbase is actually shifting to young girls instead of grownup male otaku.That statement might hit a lot of damage to my confidence, if not mentally altering. I demand name, i'll make bussiness.
Let's all admit lewd factor are deciding factor to hentai doujins.
Judging by base material, i mean original game, Kancolle definitely appealing to more wider audience, mainly designed to appeal with physical attractiveness, from humble to lewd, i won't deny that Kancolle have better base material, for certain "kind of things" among other.
I'm not too knowledgeable about it, but aren't Kancolle in original game are all art by commisioned artist? If so, being a commisioned artist means that they must have very good skill, that would make thethong & bandage brabase material easy to perceive as pretty & attractive if not sexually, easily desireable.
There's probably more to it than that, but i have like no real experience in Kancolle, probably the ships history if i make a common guess.
From what i read the plot aren't that bad in one of the novel version at least, that one with alternate universe, definitely alluring for male audience i say.
And whats more, Kancolle have friggin girls(& grown up women) voices that comes out when you tap theirrr........wherever you want to "tap" them.If you are being indecisive i suggest the outer layer of the area where their mammary gland are.
There's saying that "after a bad first impression, it can only get better" as a game that hail from por... pr0n site with aim on more wider audience(as wiki states lol) they definitely seems prosper, but the fan service they provide make me wonder what kind of wider audience do they mean, like, apple don't fall far from the tree.
Kancolle indeed deserve their rank up there, normally. And inb4, i apologize if my statement are actually off as i didn't bother look to much into it (lol).
Now let's look at ZUN drawing & laugh merrily together. Actually ZUN drawing style are kind of cute in it's own way when compared to Alphes or Harukawa,especially the epic smug face on innocent art style.
If Touken Ranbu art are either "male" or "looks like female", Touhou art ambiguous in whether they are "old hag(?)" and "midget looks like little girl or actual(most probably no way) little girl".
Even with the official printworks and spin-off game where they have different artist, drawing still kind of ambiguous. (aside from judging by certain "plot assets", i would be called gross again if i clearly say what they are, the dudes here can be inconsiderate i let you know that)
With all the consideration above, i think that wasn't a fair comparison, both Touhou & Kancolle have their own different handicap. The top can't be necessarily better than the bottom here.
In my opinion Touhou are light and homely while Kancolle looks "exciting", thats fine.And Touken Ranbu are like k-poop boyband, simply disgusting as fok, but i accept their exsitence as karma for the moronic behaviour of us male. i might have just made enemies.
The problem people would have with this argument is that all of your points are about the game's, er, "aesthetics" (mostly art and voice) and nothing else. Not the game play, not the music, not even the plot. Just "the girls are cute/hot" and "the V/O is cute/hot", and aesthetics alone does not automatically make a series "better".As i cautiosuly said before, i just can't because i haven't actually play the game, trying the music, or read the plot. But "aesthetics" also part of game industry strategy.
Basically "KanColle" the series isn't appealing to a larger audience, "KanColle" the porn doujinshi industry is. And that fact plays into the argument a lot of people have made in the past- the "fans" that left Touhou for Kancolle or FGO because more waifus and porn were most likely never real "fans" in the first place.I didn't remember much but didn't they have all ages section where kancolle are accessable?
Nobody will argue that ZUN's art quality is better then KanColle. What they will argue, though, is that his designs are a lot better than KanColle. As you mentioned, KanColle mostly revolves their designs over a handful of sexy/fetish outfits copy-pasted onto a collection of girls that fall into a handful of catagories:If by "a lot better" mean more humble or modest, no refute. But i can't really judge design because Kancolle actually also has some rather humble design. Even though aside from the ship component, Touhou design are more unique.....and that's about it.
- Loli
- Busty onee-chan
- Blonde busty onee-chan
ZUN, on the other hand, rarely if ever relies on "fan-service" designs to make his characters appealing, something a lot of people enjoy. And official manga art being inconsistent is due to him not wanting to dictate artist's visual interpretations of the characters (though he still handles the writing) because that's how he wishes it to be. Nothing really wrong with that.
Skipping the next few paragraphs because, while I truely appreciate the effort to make a point in English, I simply struggle to understand what you're trying to say. :(I got that often, don't worry im not offended
You brought up TR before, and I'm still confused about what makes that so bad? If it's because it's a Yaoi-pretty-boy-simulator or something, then isn't that basically gender-bent KanColle as far as aesthetics go?Yep, it is male version of Kancolle. And that's what most doujin sells right? character appearance.
Basically "KanColle" the series isn't appealing to a larger audience, "KanColle" the porn doujinshi industry is. And that fact plays into the argument a lot of people have made in the past- the "fans" that left Touhou for Kancolle or FGO because more waifus and porn were most likely never real "fans" in the first place.
The homo archetype male design piss me off (lol). I mean it's like they are looking down on us male, while i never looking down on female in the same manner, of course i get offended. I know it's immature but i can't help it.You've already mentioned in two posts that you're having apparently trouble with males acting or looking "unmanly" for your personal taste. It adds 0,0% value to the topic at hand. Knock it off will ya?
Ah... this is the sort of mentality that sometime gives a certain stigma on the Touhou fanbase and sadly, it is absolutely deserved. As much as I like the series and the fanbase, whenever someone says that someone isn't/wasn't a real fan for X reason, they sound rather... how to say it... snobbish and elitist? Personally I am not fond of Kancolle for reasons that have already been stated here but I admit played it in the past and while it's true that fanservice has a strong presence in the game, there's various reasons why it can appeal to various folks. In fact, if I had to criticize the game itself, I'd have to say it's a pretty freaking horrible browser game (and the less I say about the anime the better) because of the way it works. Still beyond that, ignoring the fanservice, I know plenty of folks who likes some of the characters designs (Abyss fleet being commonly praised far more than the playable ships) and the personality brought by the lines of the characters. There's enough stuff and effort put in that game to justify having it a fanbase although I do admit that regardless of the reasons, I'm still surprised that it's influence and popularity blew up to the point it reached and in a certain way, I can sort of respect that the game is fairly casual friendly even for F2P players.*
You've already mentioned in two posts that you're having apparently trouble with males acting or looking "unmanly" for your personal taste. It adds 0,0% value to the topic at hand. Knock it off will ya?ok