東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character

[Tengukami]

TH08 - All i can hear is the best music in the series.

FTFY

Personally, I think Touhou 14 is going to involve more trumpeting. I mean, it does seem as though ZUN has found his comfort zone where instrumentation is concerned. What I'd love to hear, though, is more strings. Songs like Eastern Mystical Dream, for example, made great use of a lot of different instrumentation, even if it did sound video-game-y. ZUN can do strings. I'd love it if he re-visited them in TH14.

[Zengar Zombolt]

Besides being based on Darius Gaiden, that is.

Storm Causer loli. That is all. Or maybe Great Thing, too?

[ふねん1]

Why did I not see this right away? I mean sure, I don't visit the forums as often as I used to, but still.

Sakuya's back, huh? Guess that's one of the "retro" aspects ZUN was talking about. As for mechanics, I certainly wouldn't mind grazing being prominent again. Better not be like TD where you could do it but other strategies completely eclipse it. And I'm still waiting for Boss Practice to replace Spell Practice. Seriously, it's so much better.

[Ciel]

I really like Sakuya, but I'm a bit tired of seeing her, personally. ^_^; Someone fresh would be nice for a change. She appeared in god knows how many games.

Still, ZUN's art style improved alot! I hope the music is just as good too!

[BT]

Sakuya: PCB, IN, DDC
Youmu: IN, TD
Sanae: UFO, TD
(Fighting games and Phantasmagoria-s not included.)

So he could have stopped the cycle there, really, if he weren't looking for retro-city. (so close to atrocity it's almost the point I'm making :3)
I think it was a few months ago when I said a new character as a playable character would be really interesting. Sort of Phantasmagoria-esque. A shame.

[Tengukami]

[Critz]

You forgot somebody :V


Well, maybe Sakuya's here to make up for IN, as there is pretty much no point in picking her except with Remilia to destroy familiars.

Well, he could have picked anyone  for the spread option as far as I'm concerned, it's just different sprites. IMO multiplayer games is where it's at - both fighting games and phantasmagorias by their very nature have to include diverse playstyles. And since 3+6=9 and 9+6=15, he has no excuse for the next time :3.

The only thing I'm sad about is the lost potential character development for Sanae and maybe revealing yet another side of her. Things I believe are not important anyway to new fans who only need their ice fairies, ninja maids and vampire lolis to be happy instead of worrying about something as trivial as Touhou's plot  :V

EDIT:

Happy now, Sakuya-loving haters? That's what you wished for...

[Zakari]

^

No way!!

is it Photoshoped?

[ふねん1]

Lol yeah I saw that recently. Didn't realize it was related to DDC. :V

[Clarste]

Things I believe are not important anyway to new fans who only need their ice fairies, ninja maids and vampire lolis to be happy instead of worrying about something as trivial as Touhou's plot  :V

All of which come from EoSD. Shouldn't new fans be less biased towards the older games though? It's understandable that older fans might have some lingering attachment to the "classics" but to new fans it's not like Byakuren is any less prominent than Remilia. And for even newer ones the cast of TD. I suppose the major difference though is the amount of doujin featuring them. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Of doom.

[lightdreamer]

The only thing I'm sad about is the lost potential character development for Sanae and maybe revealing yet another side of her. Things I believe are not important anyway to new fans who only need their ice fairies, ninja maids and vampire lolis to be happy instead of worrying about something as trivial as Touhou's plot  :V

Plot? In my Touhou? What is this madness you're speaking of?  :V

All of which come from EoSD. Shouldn't new fans be less biased towards the older games though? It's understandable that older fans might have some lingering attachment to the "classics" but to new fans it's not like Byakuren is any less prominent than Remilia. And for even newer ones the cast of TD. I suppose the major difference though is the amount of doujin featuring them. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Of doom.

Yep. Doujins and fanfics featuring the SDM are practically everywhere. And yet, people still keep making 'em.

[Darkness1]

is it Photoshoped?

I felt kind of sad that the last 'shop with Ichirin as a player character in DDC wasn't real :|

About the EoSD thing, I always wondered why so many seems to love Cirno and Flandre. But alot of the fans may have gotten into touhou thanks to Flandre, so that may be a reason. I guess Cirno is some sort of joke character? (Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)
No comment on the usage of RNG in EoSD.

[Clarste]

(Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)

You mean when he had Marisa fight her with a flashlight? Or made a joke about how all the Danmaku in fairy Wars looks denser than it is because she's Cirno?

[CyberAngel]

All of which come from EoSD. Shouldn't new fans be less biased towards the older games though? It's understandable that older fans might have some lingering attachment to the "classics" but to new fans it's not like Byakuren is any less prominent than Remilia. And for even newer ones the cast of TD. I suppose the major difference though is the amount of doujin featuring them. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Of doom.

Well, here you have a fan who discovered Touhou when TD was out for a long time. And still I like EoSD characters the most. At the same time, I can't express how eager I am to see new doujins with TD cast. So overall, liking old or new characters has nothing to do with being old or new fan.

About the EoSD thing, I always wondered why so many seems to love Cirno and Flandre. But alot of the fans may have gotten into touhou thanks to Flandre, so that may be a reason. I guess Cirno is some sort of joke character? (Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)

Before there was Kogasa, Cirno reappeared as stage 1 midboss in PCB. And then there was PoFV...

[Darkness1]

You mean when he had Marisa fight her with a flashlight? Or made a joke about how all the Danmaku in fairy Wars looks denser than it is because she's Cirno?

If I remember correctly, both Marisa and Shikieiki once says something about Cirno being quite strong, atleast stronger than they would have thought she would.
"Almost too strong for a fairy and possible of causing alot of trouble on its own."

[Clarste]

If I remember correctly, both Marisa and Shikieiki once says something about Cirno being quite strong, atleast stronger than they would have thought she would.
"Almost too strong for a fairy and possible of causing alot of trouble on its own."

"Strong for a fairy" doesn't strike me as a compliment. Marisa's line was more along the lines of "I almost had to try", since she spent the entire fight playing around. "Master Spark-like Flashlight", "Blazing Star-like Tag", etc.

[Tengukami]

About the EoSD thing, I always wondered why so many seems to love Cirno and Flandre. But alot of the fans may have gotten into touhou thanks to Flandre, so that may be a reason. I guess Cirno is some sort of joke character? (Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)

She's reappeared in numerous games, has featured prominently in the written works, and had a game devoted to her wherein she ends up defeating Marisa Kirisame (although, in one of Touhou's funniest moments, both Cirno and Marisa are secretly surprised at how beat up they are, while still talking smack at each other). I don't think she qualifies as a "joke character", if by that you mean a throw-away, insignificant character. But if you mean she has comedy value due to her personality, yeah, I'd agree.

I can't speak for other fans of hers, but she's in my top 10 at least. She has a child-like energy and self-confidence that she can actually back up when push comes to shove. What she lacks in wits she makes up for through sheer determination, which I think is pretty admirable.

[Darkness1]

I don't think she qualifies as a "joke character", if by that you mean a throw-away, insignificant character. But if you mean she has comedy value due to her personality, yeah, I'd agree.

Joke as in comedy is the right impression. She was probably joked around the most in EoSD to a start and with herself being so arrogant and seemingly joking around herself. I got to say it is amusing to see her become quite strong in the games, when everyone thinks otherwise, especially with her being self-proclaimed "the strongest".
Not strange afterall that the fanidea of team nine got created, when especially Wriggle and Mystias dialogues doesn't seem too far away from how Cirnos first one was.

Yes, Cirno is strong and not a minor character, but in FW Marisas clothes barely got scratched. Even after that, Marisa still says that "It may have been close even with a full-powered master spark".

[Tengukami]

Even after that, Marisa still says that "It may have been close even with a full-powered master spark".

Yup. And this is the magician who's battled the baddest of the bad and won. It's kinda neat that ZUN has Marisa simultaneously joke to Cirno "lol i was goin ez on u" while still saying to herself "holy shit that was close".

[Clarste]

Marisa's also a joke character, in the sense that she's funny. A lot of her lines are literally jokes, and in SoPM they even made a joke about her not being able to come up with a joke. Well, the series is largely written as a comedy, so it makes sense that characters like Marisa and Cirno will be prominent.

For the record though, I've always found Sunny's version of the fairy joke funnier.

[lightdreamer]

Personally, I think Cirno is the strongest fairy, and she's probably stronger than the other minor characters in Touhou.

Just don't wank her into ridiculous levels, please.

[Tengukami]

Just don't wank her into ridiculous levels, please.

No need - powerlevel discussions are very much frowned upon here. So far, people are just talking about canon. Wouldn't worry too much about the threat of Cirno deified.

[lightdreamer]

No need - powerlevel discussions are very much frowned upon here. So far, people are just talking about canon. Wouldn't worry too much about the threat of Cirno deified.

I wasn't talking about the people here specifically. 

[Darkness1]

And then Cirno became a godess and everyone in Gensokyo alike feared her for who she really was, "the strongest".
Daiyousei is her.... shikigami(?)

[Clarste]

And then Cirno became a godess and everyone in Gensokyo alike feared her for who she really was, "the strongest".
Daiyousei is her.... shikigami(?)

This is mostly unrelated to your post, but it kind of bugs me when people use "god" or "goddess" in this series as if it makes a character impressive. There are weak gods like the Aki sisters in the same way there are weak youkai like Rumia. "God" is a species, not a powerlevel. Even if Cirno became a goddess (which is not technically impossible, although "fear" is more of a youkai thing), that wouldn't actually make her the strongest if she wasn't already, nor would it make people respect her more.

[Darkness1]

This is mostly unrelated to your post, but it kind of bugs me when people use "god" or "goddess" in this series as if it makes a character impressive. There are weak gods like the Aki sisters in the same way there are weak youkai like Rumia. "God" is a species, not a powerlevel.

Generally they are more respected than youkai, which is why I used it. Yes, it was a bit incorrect, but also just a random silly post :v.

[Tiamat]

One thing about the SDM cast is that the SDM is huge. Out of all the "organizations" in Touhou, the SDM has the most named characters, an unnamed one, and a whole slew of generic employees. This gives the fandom a LOT to work with.  Between Remilia, Sakuya, Meiling, Patchouli, and Flandre, you pretty much have everything you need for a full cast, with enough range of personality, abilities, and even weaknesses to apply it to almost any plot you can think of, as well as a high chance of at least some of those personalities (be they the fandom version or the canon version) appealing to you. And any hole that's missing can be filled up with blank-slate Koakuma.

Their relationships TO each other are defined, too. We're not completely sure how Ichirin, Shou, and Muramasa interact with each other, but we do know that Remilia is everyones' boss, Flandre is Remilia's younger sister, Meiling works under Sakuya, Sakuya and Meiling and Koakuma work under Patchouli, etc. These relationships are defined just enough for people to have hooks to latch onto without being so restrictive that you have no freedom to play with. Or even if you don't make doujin and fanfic and fan-made stories, someone who simply likes following Touhou just for its canon plot will likely appreciate the fact that these characters have a generally defined canonical relationship to each other.

Actually, IMHO that's kinda a big failing of the characters from UFO and TD, in that we don't know much about how they interact with each other (heck, Seiga is practically the opposite of interacting with the rest of her group, if she's even still a part of it). Meanwhile, MoF and SA suffer from overly small related casts (MoF just has Suwako + Sanae + Kanako for 3, and in SA only the Satori sisters and their two pets are really related to each other).

Even their home is the most developed building in all of Touhou. It has a library, a basement, a bell tower, a garden, a gate, is ridiculously large on the inside with lots of dark corners per Perfect Memento, is near/on a lake, etc.  Again, just like the SDM cast, you pretty much can do almost anything with this setting alone, too.

They also seem to have a good deal of interactions outside the SDM, too. Although the fact that the entire friggin' SDM named cast besides Flandre have been in the previous two fighting games helped that.

[Tengukami]

Apart from SA having the same number of related cast members as SDM, I agree - the early games generally had tighter stories, i.e., they were stand-alone plot lines with a beginning, a middle, and an end. Personally, I like that ZUN is trying to create multi-game story arcs, though. It gives Gensokyo a broader feel, in terms of the passage of time. Wherever TH14 goes, I'm hoping it'll have the same connectedness, although his "neo-retro" approach might include the idea of a stand-alone plot.

[Validon98]

Apart from SA having the same number of related cast members as SDM, I agree - the early games generally had tighter stories, i.e., they were stand-alone plot lines with a beginning, a middle, and an end. Personally, I like that ZUN is trying to create multi-game story arcs, though. It gives Gensokyo a broader feel, in terms of the passage of time. Wherever TH14 goes, I'm hoping it'll have the same connectedness, although his "neo-retro" approach might include the idea of a stand-alone plot.

I always liked how the series always had a passage of time. I mean, I like how not every game takes place in the same season. It would be a little boring if the entire series took place entirely in summer, though I guess it wouldn't have THAT much of an impact.

[Drayen]

One thing i really hope is that Zun used the hell out of those 2 years to make a masterpiece like IN... like, different stages/bosses, unlockable lastwords, unlockable solo characters, etc... None of the touhou games had as much replayability as IN.