Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: Ruka on May 10, 2013, 08:19:53 PM

Title: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ruka on May 10, 2013, 08:19:53 PM
Touhou 14 was just announced on ZUN's blog. http://kourindou.exblog.jp/20469044/
[ruro]I'm taking over this post from here on out to post in updated information, tyvm Ruka[/ruro]
Edit: <Ruka>You're welcome.
Below is the blog entry in question, translated courtesy of this feller right here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14723.msg972307.html#msg972307), and posted here for all to see.
(5/11: edited slightly for nuance and one minor error.)



The game to be released on 5/26 is the following.
(http://i.imgur.com/vYEw8ZF.jpg)

Touhou Project 14
The playable demo for "Touhou Kishinjou ~ Double Dealing Character" will be released. As usual, it'll be playable up to stage 3.

The theme I went for this time was "Neither novel or retro, a 2000's neo-retro danmaku shooter". So basically it's the usual where I went for a simple to enjoy game, but I tried removing a lot of the complicated game mechanics.

(http://i.imgur.com/XAQ0SsM.jpg)

The general synopsis is as follows:

Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya's individual weapons have suddenly started acting on their own. On top of that, the Youkai who are usually quiet and subdued have suddenly started rebelling. Will the three oppose their own weapons or abandon them?

And that's the lowdown of the story. Anyway, the three playable characters will be Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya.

(http://i.imgur.com/coB826M.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mZp50A8.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/faHgbVt.jpg)

*Screenshots are a work in progress and are liable to change at any time.

Wow, time flies by! This is the 14 installment in the main line of games, though I guess it's like 21 if we include the side-games as well.

This time, I've doubled the resolution of the game. However, I haven't increased the game window size. That being said, players can continue playing with the familiar window size but with higher game resolution. If you own a respectable computer, you should be able to play at 1280x960.

The disk will cost 300 yen.
If you are attending Reitaisai, please feel free to drop by the "Shanghai Alice Gakuendan" booth.

Oh, and if you're wondering the other title will be available at the Twilight Frontier's booth.
Touhou Project 13.5
"Touhou Shinkirou ~ Hopeless Masquerade"

But of course, do drop by my booth as well!


[end of translation]
Release date of demo: 26 May! GET HYPE
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: theshirn on May 10, 2013, 08:21:13 PM
Double Dealing Character, huh?

Interesting.

also woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sakuya woooooooooooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on May 10, 2013, 08:24:02 PM
Things to note:
- Sakuya finally made it back as a playable, while Sanae is absent.
Clearly she was murdered
- Plot synopsis: Everyone's weapons have been possessed, and at the same time there's a new outbreak of youkai activity
- ZUN is aiming for a 'retro' theme, and has replaced complex scoring systems with making the core gameplay as simple as possible.

(was throwing together a post for this, got beaten to the punch. V:)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: theshirn on May 10, 2013, 08:25:37 PM
Things to note:
- Sakuya finally made it back as a playable, while Sanae is absent.
Clearly she was murdered
- Plot synopsis: Everyone's weapons have been possessed, and at the same time there's a new outbreak of youkai activity
- ZUN is aiming for a 'retro' theme, and has replaced complex scoring systems with making the core gameplay as simple as possible.

(was throwing together a post for this, got beaten to the punch. V:)
Everything about this sounds absolutely wonderful.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: ChanceWolf on May 10, 2013, 08:27:40 PM
I wonder what's the canon-reason why Sakuya is playable again...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on May 10, 2013, 08:28:45 PM
Also - note that you only need 3 life-pieces for an extend now. Maybe ZUN decided that the number was too much in 10D?

Now if you don't mind, I'm gonna be quietly hopeful that this is the underwater touhou I've wanted forever. (I mean come on, there's a stage taking place over a lake. Let me dream.)

I wonder what's the canon-reason why Sakuya is playable again...
If weapons are getting possessed, I figure Sakuya would be slightly frustrated about it. :V

EDIT: Hmm, there's a mirror on the title screen. Maybe the whole 'double dealing' thing is about someone who can manipulate reflections or something?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 10, 2013, 08:29:31 PM
- ZUN is aiming for a 'retro' theme, and has replaced complex scoring systems with making the core gameplay as simple as possible.
YES

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

also is that goddamn Orin 'cause that looks a LOT like her
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: fondue on May 10, 2013, 08:32:31 PM
YES ILU ZUN
Also the art seems kinda childish, I kinda like it. ZUN has definitely improved his art.
and brb dying that sanae is not playable
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Nindella on May 10, 2013, 08:33:09 PM
Ehh, I don't really think that she looks like Orin  :ohdear:


More like a girl wearing a red hood.

Like Little Red Riding hood!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Zil on May 10, 2013, 08:34:11 PM
- ZUN is aiming for a 'retro' theme, and has replaced complex scoring systems with making the core gameplay as simple as possible.
There is indeed a notable lack of mysterious numbers and gauges. That has me worried though, as grazing still exists apparently, since graze system + lack of any other way to score = milkfest.

I hope the spells will have something dynamic going on.
Like Little Red Riding hood!
Was just thinking the same thing. :derp:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Validon98 on May 10, 2013, 08:34:25 PM
So, this happened soon, eh? I don't know if having a more simplistic gameplay style will work out well, but who cares? New shmup!
Also, talk about art shift.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 10, 2013, 08:35:57 PM
EDIT: Hmm, there's a mirror on the title screen. Maybe the whole 'double dealing' thing is about someone who can manipulate reflections or something?
The very first weird thing I noticed was the green-outlined paper tassels and blue-outlined ones both coming out of the same gohei Reimu is carrying. Hmm....
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2013, 08:36:38 PM
Quote
性能の高いマシンなら、1280*960の高解像度でプレイ出来ますよ。
What in the fuck
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Jmyster on May 10, 2013, 08:37:20 PM
Phew, okay, now that I've gotten that scream of joy out of me, yeah, this sounds frickin' amazing.

...now just got to wait for the game! Patiently. Patiently...or the demo. Demo works!

...this is going to be hard.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tamashii Kanjou on May 10, 2013, 08:38:17 PM
Well, I've just seen the explosion of the news hitting our UK page; and everyone is going crazy about it. In a good way, of course. ^^ Quite a lot happy to see no Sanae; but that's their own tastes for you, just like others out there.

I'll be looking forward to the trail version. Also, seems like ZUN is keeping the Spell Practice as a permanent fixture in the games now.

{Also, should have expected all these replies so quickly~ :V }
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: DX7.EP on May 10, 2013, 08:40:15 PM
Well this is peculiar news. May be another reason to try and stop by Comiket this summer while I'm over in Korea.

Interesting resolution change.

WARNING - CHOO CHOO 4 TRAINS PASSED
What did we expect other than this and more trains? :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 10, 2013, 08:41:14 PM
Quite a lot happy to see no Sanae; but that's their own tastes for you, just like others out there.
Not gon' lie, I'm gonna miss Sanae, but since I like both her and Sakuya, it's all right with me.

And mirrors and doubles? What an interesting theme we've got going on here! I'm looking forward to the demo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Imosa on May 10, 2013, 08:42:44 PM
Things to note:
- Sakuya finally made it back as a playable, while Sanae is absent.
Clearly she was murdered
- Plot synopsis: Everyone's weapons have been possessed, and at the same time there's a new outbreak of youkai activity
- ZUN is aiming for a 'retro' theme, and has replaced complex scoring systems with making the core gameplay as simple as possible.

(was throwing together a post for this, got beaten to the punch. V:)
These are all good things. Thank you for the translation.

I hope Sanae doesn't disappear completely. I actually think her outside perspective is pretty cool.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Wriggle on May 10, 2013, 08:42:54 PM
Looks awesome so far. That'll definitively motivate me back into serious danmaku. :3

And damn, I love Sanae and hated how she sucked in TD, too bad she most likely won't be around this time.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Sakurei on May 10, 2013, 08:43:05 PM
fuck everything. TH14 confirmed for shit. it has sakuya in it instead of youmu.

I have stopped expecting anything from this game at this point onward.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 10, 2013, 08:47:49 PM
Well, that just happened! :V

The art style looks pretty nice! Also, SPELL PRACTICE HELL YEAH.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Zengar Zombolt on May 10, 2013, 08:49:25 PM
Flamethrowing Marisa? That's all. Hype get.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2013, 08:50:00 PM
Hmm, from the screenshots I can say that the engine remained pretty much the same, and a lot of old resources were reused. Also, Spell Practice. YAY!

While I'm more than happy to see Sakuya back, I sure hope she's not unbalanced in either direction this time. I've read ZUN dropped her from the roster because he wasn't really sure on how to present her abilities in gameplay. If he has a good idea this time, I'll surely enjoy playing as her again.

Also - note that you only need 3 life-pieces for an extend now. Maybe ZUN decided that the number was too much in 10D?

I remember that in 10D his idea was "to show the value of lives in a shmup". This time I bet it's back to SA (or maybe even UFO) style system.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2013, 08:50:37 PM
fuck everything. TH14 confirmed for shit. it has sakuya in it instead of youmu.
I hope you realize the reason TH13 sucked was because Youmu was in it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Gpop on May 10, 2013, 08:52:05 PM
Oh man, Sakuya is back. That's cool I guess.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Sakurei on May 10, 2013, 08:54:59 PM
I hope you realize the reason TH13 sucked was because Youmu was in it.

youmu is the one golden shimmer of awesomeness in the game

the reason  TD sucks is because the gimmick is retarded and more than half the game is so boring it kills your braincells.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 08:55:41 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/nefuTon.jpg)

Now that that's out of my system ..

YES! Yes yes yes yes yes! Everything about this sounds great.

And Sakuya's return instead of Sanae? Oh the sweet, delicious tears that will be shed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2013, 08:56:11 PM
The game has a "weapon select" instead of a shot type select. Presumably ties into the plot. Marisa is selecting the Mini-hakkero, which has Illusion Laser unfocused, Hakkero Fire focused, and Dark Spark as its bomb.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Reddyne on May 10, 2013, 08:56:35 PM
Who's in the silhouette in the frame?

I thoroughly approve of bringing back Sakuya if for no other reason than it existing as further evidence that ZUN doesn't mind bringing back characters one might not expect to see again
besides the obvious one
. Then again, Youmu, Yuyuko, and maybe Ichirin may be enough support for that.
Quote
24 Members and 20 Guests are viewing this topic.
Got your attention, did it, gang?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: I have no name on May 10, 2013, 08:59:06 PM
fuck everything. TH14 confirmed for shit. it has sakuya in it instead of youmu.
inb4 it has both characters in it
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2013, 08:59:27 PM
Who's in the silhouette in the frame?

Relax, that's just Reimu's reflection.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Suikama on May 10, 2013, 08:59:40 PM
also is that goddamn Orin 'cause that looks a LOT like her
its mima
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: lightdreamer on May 10, 2013, 09:00:31 PM
And so it begins. The return of the clash between Sakuya fans and Sanae fans.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2013, 09:01:25 PM
youmu is the one golden shimmer of awesomeness in the game
Forcing a gimmicky melee dumpster into the game breaks the difficulty for the rest of the characters.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: lightdreamer on May 10, 2013, 09:02:27 PM
Forcing a gimmicky melee dumpster into the game breaks the difficulty for the rest of the characters.

What?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Widermelonz on May 10, 2013, 09:02:46 PM
Marisa has Dark Spark now? What happened to Master Spark?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: fondue on May 10, 2013, 09:03:20 PM
And so it begins. The return of the clash between Sakuya fans and Sanae fans.
(http://i.imgur.com/AT7oMx9.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2013, 09:03:40 PM
inb4 it has both characters in it

ZUN specifically wrote that there are only 3 protagonists.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 09:04:13 PM
fuck everything. TH14 confirmed for shit. it has sakuya in it instead of youmu.

I have stopped expecting anything from this game at this point onward.

Bye then!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: MisterOrange on May 10, 2013, 09:05:18 PM
Quote
Marisa has Dark Spark now? What happened to Master Spark?

Her weapon got cursed i suppose.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2013, 09:05:28 PM
What?
You have to balance the game for the melee user, which in turn makes the difficulty a breeze for the ones that aren't melee.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2013, 09:06:20 PM
And so it begins. The return of the clash between Sakuya fans and Sanae fans.

I'm guessing the "religion arc" is over so Sanae doesn't have much of a role.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Sakurei on May 10, 2013, 09:07:04 PM
Forcing a gimmicky melee dumpster into the game breaks the difficulty for the rest of the characters.

> TD
> difficulty

I don't know what you are smoking, but I suggest you stop doing it.

now, seriously. yyoumu's slash has its disadvantages as well as advantages. strong in stages, disadvantageous against yoshika, futo and miko, mostly. I don't see your problem.

Bye then!

I can't. I have to tell everyone about my little girl intuition that tells me the game with be horrifyingly bad.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Savory on May 10, 2013, 09:07:39 PM
So does this mean we'll seeing more tsukumogami characters?

INB4 the final boss is Kogasa :P

SURPRISE!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Messiah on May 10, 2013, 09:08:10 PM
Just two things I can't seem to accept in this game:
- The name of the game, my god how horrible.
- Reimu's sprite, is it me or she was prettier in TD?:V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 10, 2013, 09:08:41 PM
SAKUYAAA is BACK

Her orbits are CARDS?!

All the weapons are POSSESSED the Gohei the hakkero the knives EVERYTHING
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Validon98 on May 10, 2013, 09:09:08 PM
Honestly, I didn't like Youmu's shottype in TD, so... there.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 09:09:39 PM
Oh yeah, Youmu was great in TD. Nothing I love more than having to hold-and-release over and over again, while dealing no damage while charging. That was totally brilliant.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Jmyster on May 10, 2013, 09:10:10 PM
The characters wars come with every Touhou. But this time, I'll just be cruising on cloud nine--move over Cirno.

But, to go truly retro, we need a PC-98 Extra stage boss. Hmmm...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Zengeku on May 10, 2013, 09:10:53 PM
fuck everything. TH14 confirmed for shit. it has sakuya in it instead of youmu.

I have stopped expecting anything from this game at this point onward.

Everything considered, i guess it's gonna take a miracle for this game to be any good i'm afraid. But you'll always have me Saku-chan. Let that be a bit of consolation  :3
But we can always pray!!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: 7h3d4rkw0lf on May 10, 2013, 09:11:43 PM
Source: http://kourindou.exblog.jp/20469044/ (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/20469044/)

Feel free to add to OP.



Quote from: ZUN's Blog
The game to be released on 5/26 is the following.
(http://pds2.exblog.jp/pds/1/201305/11/42/e0088742_4503723.jpg)

Touhou Project 14
The playable demo for "Touhou Kishinjou ~ Double Dealing Character" will be released. As usual, it'll be playable up to stage 3.

The theme I went for this time was "Neither novel or retro, a 2000's neo-retro danmaku shooter". So basically it's the usual where I went for a simple to enjoy game, but I tried removing a lot of the complicated game mechanics.

(http://pds2.exblog.jp/pds/1/201305/11/42/e0088742_441818.jpg)


The general synopsis is as follows:

Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya's individual weapons have suddenly started acting on their own. On top of that, the Youkai who are usually quiet and subdued have suddenly started rebelling. Will the three oppose their own weapons or abandon them?

And that's the lowdown of the story. Anyway, the three playable characters will be Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya.

(http://pds2.exblog.jp/pds/1/201305/11/42/e0088742_4422599.jpg)

(http://pds2.exblog.jp/pds/1/201305/11/42/e0088742_4425448.jpg)

(http://pds2.exblog.jp/pds/1/201305/11/42/e0088742_455584.jpg)


*Screenshots are a work in progress and are liable to change at any time.

Wow, time flies by! This is the 14 installment in the main line of games, though I guess it's like 21 if we include the side-games as well.

This time, I've doubled the resolution of the game. However, I haven't increased the game window size. That being said, players can continue playing with the familiar window size but with higher game resolution. If you own a respectable computer, you should be able to play at 1280x960.

The disk will cost 300 yen.
If you are attending Reitaisai, please feel free to drop by the "Shanghai Alice Gakuendan" booth.

Oh, and if you're wondering the other title will be available at the Twilight Frontier's booth.
Touhou Project 13.5
"Touhou Shinkirou ~ Hopeless Masquerade"

But of course, do drop by my booth as well!

Original post here (http://yukkuricraft.net/showthread.php?884). Translated by me, obvi.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 09:12:13 PM
also is that goddamn Orin 'cause that looks a LOT like her

Taking a closer look, I think we may have one of these Orange/Hong Meiling situations.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2013, 09:13:13 PM
Is that the Misty lake I see in the screenshot? 

Oh god will Cirno will make -another- comeback now?  But then again it'd be funny to see her freezing every bullet shot at her from now on.

According to the wiki the Japanese part of the title translates to "Eastern Radiating Needle Castle".  Based on how Ten Desire's was  "Eastern Divine Spirit Mausoleum" could it be we already know where the final stage will be taking place?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 09:14:26 PM
Everything considered, i guess it's gonna take a miracle for this game to be any good i'm afraid.

What "everything" makes it so that there is almost no chance of the game being good? That blog post tells us almost nothing about the game mechanics. Are you psychic? Do you know ZUN? ARE YOU ZUN?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tamashii Kanjou on May 10, 2013, 09:15:06 PM
INB4 the final boss is Kogasa :P

SURPRISE!

I think people will be more prone to put bets on Kogasa appearing out of nowhere rather then someone else. :V

In all seriousness, I want to know more about the red haired girl in that picture. Someone from the UK page went on an Okazaki comment; but I'm certain it's someone new.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2013, 09:15:39 PM
now, seriously. yyoumu's slash has its disadvantages as well as advantages. strong in stages, disadvantageous against yoshika, futo and miko, mostly. I don't see your problem.
Sure. And what happened to the other half of the game?
Quote
futo
Please be trolling.

What "everything" makes it so that there is almost no chance of the game being good? That blog post tells us almost nothing about the game mechanics. Are you psychic? Do you know ZUN? ARE YOU ZUN?
Aye we've got a case of TIME TRAVELERS in this thread
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: fondue on May 10, 2013, 09:20:12 PM
The characters wars come with every Touhou. But this time, I'll just be cruising on cloud nine--move over Cirno.

But, to go truly retro, we need a PC-98 Extra stage boss. Hmmm...
I hope Mugetsu or Gengetsu comes back. Mugetsu more because her theme is the best, and I hope it gets remastered if she does come back.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2013, 09:22:17 PM
It's not retro, it's neo-retro.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: lightdreamer on May 10, 2013, 09:22:45 PM
So, how long will it take until people start making up theories about Mima appearing in this game?

Oh yeah, Youmu was great in TD. Nothing I love more than having to hold-and-release over and over again, while dealing no damage while charging. That was totally brilliant.

Isn't it? It's really nice when you let go of the button and just start massacring the enemies in front of you.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Zil on May 10, 2013, 09:24:34 PM
It's certainly Mima possessing the weapons.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 09:27:28 PM
It's certainly Mima possessing the weapons.

It took this long for this to happen.

You people are slacking.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 10, 2013, 09:28:31 PM
Original post here (http://yukkuricraft.net/showthread.php?884). Translated by me, obvi.
Suh-weet. Thanks, I'll edit it into the first post.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: MisterOrange on May 10, 2013, 09:29:17 PM
7h3d4rkw0lf: Thank you for the translation!

I hope we got some pretty and original stage.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Sakurei on May 10, 2013, 09:30:03 PM
I said it's my little girl intuition that tells me it's gonna be shit. and the fact that sakuya is in it. this isn't time travelling, this is sakuya hate and a feeling in my guts telling me bad things. zengeku's simply supporting me because unconditional love and stuff. thanks honey <3

Sure. And what happened to the other half of the game?

which other half? I included all stages. that's the whole game. kyoko is a so-so case, youmu's powerful against seiga. stop trying to talk down the best character in the game and the best in the series outside of Flandre. youmu will always be no. 1 in the games she is playable.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Zengeku on May 10, 2013, 09:32:23 PM
What "everything" makes it so that there is almost no chance of the game being good? That blog post tells us almost nothing about the game mechanics. Are you psychic? Do you know ZUN? ARE YOU ZUN?

Nah, i'm just paranoid. Sorry  :V

One thing both intrigues me and scares me.

"つまりいつも通りですが、できる限りシンプルに弾幕を楽しんで貰えるように複雑なシステムは排除しました。"

My japanese sucks but it seems like it's saying that he has chosen to do away with complicated systems in order to just enjoy "simple danmaku". I wouldn't mind a simple system but ONLY if that means the patterns are going to carry the entire games challenge if complicated score mechanics can't do the trick anymore.

I have never been too much into the whole scoring thing so this may be good news to me but I'm very concerned about the Simple danmaku wording.

EDIT: Oh, there's a translation. Didn't notice :V - Doesn't change my concerns though. It still sounds like something 1cc'd in a short amount of time.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 09:32:53 PM
youmu will always be no. 1 in the games she is playable.

(http://i.imgur.com/xLuNQUTl.jpg)

No, really, I like your style. Nice to see someone with a sense of humor about these games.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: BL2W on May 10, 2013, 09:34:29 PM
Now if you don't mind, I'm gonna be quietly hopeful that this is the underwater touhou I've wanted forever. (I mean come on, there's a stage taking place over a lake. Let me dream.)
If weapons are getting possessed, I figure Sakuya would be slightly frustrated about it. :V

Here's an idea. If it really is taking place over a lake in any one of the screenshots shown, then perhaps... it's the Misty Lake~! And that might help explain why Sakuya's present~! After all, ZUN's pretty much gone everywhere (various forests, underground, the sky, Hell, Heaven, the Moon, even the Human Village) EXCEPT underwater~!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 10, 2013, 09:39:55 PM
Lookin' kinda Nano there Reimu.

And yessss this is awesome news. Everything not related to Sakuya coming back sounds super awesometastic and I can't wait to finally play a new Touhou again. /o/
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 10, 2013, 09:42:03 PM
Good to know Sakuya is back...
She wasn't dead after all :U

 Also, no Border/Trance-ish things? Thanks ZUN.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hello Purvis on May 10, 2013, 09:42:32 PM
Retro style?

Clearly this is going to be the space-based Touhou that has always been on the horizon. VIVIT will be the 5th boss.


Also, Marisa's adaption of pyromania is entirely in character; as well as jiving with Ammy's realization that Marisa is totally into various forms of 80's rock; pyrotechnics are hella important.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MisterOrange on May 10, 2013, 09:43:29 PM
Btw that part is very intriguing:
Quote
Will the three follow the weapons or abandon them to fight their own battle?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tamashii Kanjou on May 10, 2013, 09:43:31 PM
"30 Members and 42 Guests"

I... may or may not have linked the translation post to FB. Sorry bout that~ :V

Character discussion wise, I enjoyed playing Youmu more in IN then in TD. I got used to the non-firing aspect of her focus in TD, and found her bombs beautiful to look at. But we can't have every character we wish to appear in every game ZUN makes. In fact, it's nice to see ZUN just rolling around stories that bring in other characters that it can relate to. Youmu's sword(s) aside, I find it a slightly amusing (and potentially dangerous) situation for Sakuya to lose control of her knives. For Youmu, it wouldn't bother Yuyuko so much in the fact that, well, ghosts and stuff. Remilia, on the other hand, would likely have more of an issue with this; as Sakuya is supposed to be an 'elegant maid.' I can imagine watching Sakuya at a loss would amuse her a little, before getting very annoyed.

In short, it'sJust a matter of who ties in to the storyline more. I look forward to seeing what comes of this. And yes, no bias here; just doing my bit to try and show a fair response, and be friendly. ^^

Continue speculation~ XD
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 10, 2013, 09:45:06 PM
It may or may not be relevant to note that the title for normal mode is "aquamarine."

Now if you'll excuse me a dolphin is about to burst through the wall in happiness and anticipation. Toodle oo!

Also I note spell practice is back again. Will we see more last words/overdrives? :o
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 09:45:25 PM
One thing both intrigues me and scares me.

"つまりいつも通りですが、できる限りシンプルに弾幕を楽しんで貰えるように複雑なシステムは排除しました。"

My japanese sucks but it seems like it's saying that he has chosen to do away with complicated systems in order to just enjoy "simple danmaku". I wouldn't mind a simple system but ONLY if that means the patterns are going to carry the entire games challenge if complicated score mechanics can't do the trick anymore.

Yeah that raised an eyebrow. Didn't he say something about wanting to make this game easy enough for his wife to play? What little patterning I see, I think he might be putting the challenge emphasis on the weapons themselves. He says their weapons "have suddenly started acting on their own". Maybe this means surprise shot types at random intervals.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 10, 2013, 09:49:52 PM
Sorry guys, I'm late to the party. But just making my obligatory post here. As usual: YAAAAAAAY! THIS IS AWESOME! ASFAGFGSMASOFSFASN!!!

Anyway, playable Sakuya as well? Seems like those jokes about her cosplaying other playable characters will stop then.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 10, 2013, 09:53:00 PM
Youmu and Sanae aren't in the game because they're good enough to not lose total control of their weapons.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2013, 09:54:22 PM
Sorry guys, I'm late to the party. But just making my obligatory post here. As usual: YAAAAAAAY! THIS IS AWESOME! ASFAGFGSMASOFSFASN!!!

Anyway, playable Sakuya as well? Seems like those jokes about her cosplaying other playable characters will stop then.

Presumably replaced by Sanae dressing up as Sakuya?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 10, 2013, 09:56:25 PM
According to the wiki, the translation for the Japanese title is "Eastern Castle of Shining Needles." Who knows what that means, but perhaps it means there'll be a setup like EoSD where they visit a previously unknown mansion? In the forest? In any case, I hope shining needles doesn't refer to more lasers. >.<
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2013, 09:59:49 PM
For scoring, there does seem to be a "point item value" field, so no EoSD 2. Maybe it'll be something like LLS.

It may or may not be relevant to note that the title for normal mode is "aquamarine."

Aquamarine is a gemstone.

...Given how the Japanese title translates, I'd say this game's story will deal with jewels.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hello Purvis on May 10, 2013, 10:01:15 PM
According to the wiki, the translation for the Japanese title is "Eastern Castle of Shining Needles." Who knows what that means, but perhaps it means there'll be a setup like EoSD where they visit a previously unknown mansion? In the forest? In any case, I hope shining needles doesn't refer to more lasers. >.<

Means we're going to visit Kid Radd in Sharp Painful Object Land.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drayen on May 10, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
I need to get back into touhou!

That said, spell practice again... pretty happy about it, the name sounds derp though!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 10, 2013, 10:06:56 PM
"Eastern Castle of Shining Needles."

Well, this is how a japanese castle usually looks like, so we can guess it'll be something like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/ArkOLG2.jpg)

And if some of the latter stages takes place inside of it, then the interior would look more or less like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/jBK2q4L.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2013, 10:08:32 PM
-wow didn't realize it was already done
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Jazazamine on May 10, 2013, 10:14:19 PM
I've been playing PCB recently so to see Sakuya come back as a playable character.. I am HAPPY :D I can't wait to see how this turns out :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Imosa on May 10, 2013, 10:23:19 PM
Who's in the silhouette in the frame?
I will say that that isn't how reflections work. Pretty cool.

Jemstones could be a thing considering the title of normal mode and those lens flairs (shudder) on the title.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Critz on May 10, 2013, 10:28:02 PM
And here I was just about to burst thinking about that it might be a new Phantasmagoria. If Sanae's not there, then some boycotting is in order.
Though, I actually like that ZUN is making things simple again. Why are the arts so childish though. And isn't that the pavement to the Myouren Temple?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2013, 10:28:41 PM
Quote
which other half? I included all stages. that's the whole game. kyoko is a so-so case, youmu's powerful against seiga.
I'm not talking about the shot type's viability. I'm talking about how it wrecks the balancing of the game. It's clear as day that anything but the Stage 3 boss, the Stage 5 midboss and the final boss were dumbed down so that a melee user can get up close and attack. This would've worked if the other three characters weren't ranged users. Unfortunately, they were, and people do use them.

Quote
stop trying to talk down the best character in the game
A gimmicky "shot" type that forced half of the game to be balanced around its lousy attack range? Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

Quote
Flandre
Flandre is not playable and the boss form is among one of the easiest to beat.
but franchan's so kawaii that's why she's da bes, ne?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 10, 2013, 10:33:25 PM
Drake you should have kept yours up, you were the first to point out the weapons-not-actually-going-haywire thing I think.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: commandercool on May 10, 2013, 10:41:14 PM
Marisa has a flamethrower shot type? Pretty good.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Iced Fairy on May 10, 2013, 10:47:17 PM
Quote
Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya's individual weapons have suddenly started acting on their own. On top of that, the Youkai who are usually quiet and subdued have suddenly start wreaking havoc. Will the three follow the weapons or abandon them to fight their own battle?

Hm...  Wondering if this means multiple shottypes per character or split story for the final levels*?  Not sure which I'd prefer.  Probably depend on how the theoretical split was done.

*Or if there's a minor translation that shifts the meaning.  Suppose that's also an option.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 10, 2013, 10:48:30 PM
A bit belated because I was distracted, but: Can we not turn the Touhou 14 thread into Touhou 13 bashing? Please and thank you.

Comparisons and so on are fine, but this thread isn't even about 10D. I will freely admit to being a bit biased here because I still have a lingering dislike for all things 10D and enjoy seeing it criticized, but this just isn't the thread for that. This is a "yay! New Touhou game!" thread, not a thread to talk about how much we hate 10D. In a thread that can contain up to 1000 posts, we're bound to get some derails into comparing this with other game announcements, but it we could stay on the title topic that'd be pretty great, y'all. We've only got two weeks 'till demo release, so we can surely MOSTLY stay on topic before we start getting bored.

SPEAKING OF. If that's not Orin in that screencap, I wonder how different the pre-demo release fanart of her will be from her actual cut-in. When UFO's demo was announced, the Pixiv fanart of before-we-knew-her-name-was-Nazrin depicted her with twin scythes instead of dowsing rods. And she didn't have her mouse ears, either, because they were a bit too fuzzy to see in the screencap. I look forward to all the wild misinterpretations of the new character's design that we will only realize in retrospect.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 10:50:53 PM
Drake you should have kept yours up, you were the first to point out the weapons-not-actually-going-haywire thing I think.

I'm only getting that from the "losing control of their weapons" bit, which is admittedly scant. They do have an opt-out for that, too, it seems. Would still love to try it out, if so.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 10, 2013, 10:54:37 PM
Wondering if this means multiple shottypes per character

All of the games with three playable characters or less so far had more than one shottype per character. So, it's pretty much safe to say this will be the case with DDC as well.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hello Purvis on May 10, 2013, 10:55:59 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/cMhQb7G.png)

Mystery over.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 10, 2013, 10:57:15 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/aPQWV1W.jpg)
source (https://twitter.com/urin_/status/332989291208794113)

DID YOU ALL HAVE ENOUGH OF RIN IN SUBTERRANEAN ANIMISM? NO YOU DID NOT. I SURE DO HOPE YOU LIKE RIN BEING THE BOSS OF EVERY SINGLE STAGE.

Fuck all the mirror and reflection imagery. TH14: CAT PLANET
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2013, 10:58:56 PM
Hm...  Wondering if this means multiple shottypes per character or split story for the final levels*?  Not sure which I'd prefer.  Probably depend on how the theoretical split was done.

*Or if there's a minor translation that shifts the meaning.  Suppose that's also an option.

One of the screenshots is an explicit "weapon select" screen which seems to have all the standard shottype info. I can't really see that as anything but selecting a shottype for your character.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hello Purvis on May 10, 2013, 10:59:09 PM
TH14: CAT PLANET

Okay. I am alright with round 20 against Orin now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Suikama on May 10, 2013, 11:00:15 PM
Okay. I am alright with round 20 against Orin now.
CAT PLANET ARMAGEDDON
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 10, 2013, 11:04:21 PM
Interesting.

if this is underwater theme.
we need mermaids, sea dragon girls and Leviathan touhou.

if not then we need ninja touhou, goth loli touhou or Touhou girl with western clothes with a fancy hat.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 10, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2gtqefb.jpg)

(http://i40.tinypic.com/4l68w6.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Jmyster on May 10, 2013, 11:06:00 PM
Of course, it actually is Kohaku! Now we just need a medicine tag-team with Erin...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2013, 11:07:34 PM
RIN
What's the official name of Goast Wheels again?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MisterOrange on May 10, 2013, 11:13:36 PM
Anpurvis: Oh god what is this.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Limian on May 10, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
DID YOU ALL HAVE ENOUGH OF RIN IN SUBTERRANEAN ANIMISM?
more like rin in eosd mmmh
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Yatakarasu on May 10, 2013, 11:16:00 PM
Fuck all the mirror and reflection imagery. TH14: CAT PLANET
I'll call Chen and Shou.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 10, 2013, 11:20:54 PM
Well, now that Sakuya's back in the danmaku business, I think we can expect the fans' whining about Mima's return to intensify even more.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: homing curvy laser on May 10, 2013, 11:23:27 PM
Quote
This time, I've doubled the resolution of the game. However, I haven't increased the game window size. That being said, players can continue playing with the familiar window size but with higher game resolution. If you own a respectable computer, you should be able to play at 1280x960.
Given how ancient my computer is, I doubt I'll be able to play this game... but oh well. Being able to play everything up until TH13 was surprising enough.
Still, oh wow it's Sakuya! And Marisa with a flamethrower! And a girl with a red cape! And everyone looks cuter than the usual!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 11:25:56 PM
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2gtqefb.jpg)

(http://i40.tinypic.com/4l68w6.jpg)

See, it looks to me like the sprite is either holding a sword by its point, for whatever reason, or ... I have no idea really. ZUN used dowsing rods, ffs. This new girl Rin could be holding a plough.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 10, 2013, 11:29:38 PM
Touhou KISHINjou ~ Double Dealing Character

Obvious hint is obvious.

Also, Shinki lives in a crystal palace

mmm... come to think about it, there's not much difference between a palace and a castle

"Eastern Castle of Shining Needles"

And crystals shines right...?

SHINKI CONFIRMED!!! :getdown:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 10, 2013, 11:30:07 PM
See, it looks to me like the sprite is either holding a sword by its point, for whatever reason, or ... I have no idea really. ZUN used dowsing rods, ffs. This new girl Rin could be holding a plough.
It's obviously a wheelbarrow. The player characters didn't die back in SA, so Rin has returned to finish the job.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 10, 2013, 11:36:11 PM
Quote
It's obviously a wheelbarrow. The player characters didn't die back in SA, so Rin has returned to finish the job.

Doesn't she know that nobody can die for real in the touhou games?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zoriri on May 10, 2013, 11:38:46 PM
First things first: OMG NEW TOUHOU :getdown:
Now that that's out of the way, on to fan speculations!

That tail/blade looking thing the boss character has looks more like one of Sakuya's knives passing over her sprite more than anything.

And as for why she looks like Orin, I'm going to go out on a limb and say ORIN HAD KITTIES.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Iced Fairy on May 10, 2013, 11:45:11 PM
And as for why she looks like Orin, I'm going to go out on a limb and say ORIN HAD KITTIES.
This would be hilarious.  6 kittens!  A midboss for each stage!  And the one after that.  And the one after that.....
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 10, 2013, 11:46:10 PM
It's obviously a wheelbarrow. The player characters didn't die back in SA, so Rin has returned to finish the job.

Tell that to everyone who can't 1cc SA normal.  :derp:

Anyway hey gaiz I know who the final boss is going to be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w95C9bvg82k#t=13m24s

Prove me wrong. ZUN said it's a retro game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 10, 2013, 11:46:25 PM
Quote
This would be hilarious.  6 kittens!  A midboss for each stage!  And the one after that.  And the one after that.....

Nyancat for the ex-boss!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2013, 11:47:27 PM
Prove me wrong. ZUN said it's a retro game.

"Neo-retro". ZUN has finally turned hipster.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 10, 2013, 11:50:27 PM
All of the games with three playable characters or less so far had more than one shottype per character. So, it's pretty much safe to say this will be the case with DDC as well.
Also there is a picture that says "Weapon Select". I wonder what kind of weapons will be available, especially for Sakuya. Reimu could fall back on something simple like Ying Yang Orbs, Sealing Needles, and Spell tags. Marisa... I don't really know about her... but that sword she traded to Rinnoske would be weirdly awesome. Sakuya seems to be the most limited, having only knives.
One idea is for them to borrow weapons from other characters, and have it be a bit like SA, like Aya's fan or Sanae's Gohi... or Tenshi's sword.
Of course if you go by this quote, "Will the three follow the weapons or abandon them to fight their own battle?" We should expect to see one shot type and two hand to hand options.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Quwanti on May 10, 2013, 11:52:43 PM
Whoever this girl is, she at least is involved with the Myouren Temple, as that does look like the path to the Myouren Temple (ala Kyouko and Mamizou stage).

I'm looking forward to the new music!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2013, 11:54:04 PM
"Neo-retro". ZUN has finally turned hipster.

New Age Retro Hippy attacks.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 10, 2013, 11:56:44 PM
Quote
Sakuya seems to be the most limited, having only knives.

Perhaps so, but who says she has only one type of them?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2013, 12:01:28 AM
I just want to see Reimu wielding two machine guns. That was in the select screen, right?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: TheTeff007 on May 11, 2013, 12:01:38 AM
My body is not ready.... Touhou 13.5 and 14 on the same day!? I cannot hold this much hype!!

Wondering if there will be returning bosses... I really hope they don't, cuz I would like to see +7 girls
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 11, 2013, 12:05:22 AM
...Do people already seriously have fanart of that boss?
Wow. Just wow. The fandom moves FAST.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 11, 2013, 12:06:11 AM
...Do people already seriously have fanart of that boss?
Wow. Just wow. The fandom moves FAST.

NSFW art appeared less than 10 minutes after Orin was revealed back in 08. Do not underestimate the fanbase.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Chuckolator on May 11, 2013, 12:09:25 AM
ZUN just had to wait until I'm sick of touhou to do this, naturally. <_<

Looks good so far though, the "1/3" hearts suggest a return from the fake difficulty of TD's easy bullets and low lives. It'd be nice to experience a new game when I feel like playing again.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 12:13:20 AM
Perhaps so, but who says she has only one type of them?
What's the point of adversely situating your characters if you also give them an easy out?

Wondering if there will be returning bosses... I really hope they don't, cuz I would like to see +7 girls
I do not share this sentiment. Returning characters would be nice.
Wasn't the TD extra stage supposed to have some information about Touhou 14? Something about Nue and Mamizou calling in a rebellion? That sounds interesting.

Also, isn't the Poltergeist's Mansion also a thing? Could the title be referencing that?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 11, 2013, 12:32:46 AM
Some things I'm thinking about:

Judging from the screenshots, there appears to be something effecting the point item value other than the presumable +10 for every 10 graze, which is definitely a good sign. However, there doesn't seem to to be anything that modifies it circumstantially, which hasn't been the case since EoSD. (Unless ZUN has removed any indicators from the screenshots.)

The boss's bullets seem to be spawning at the far ends of those lines, rather than near her. I'm suspecting that they might actually be stationary bullets that gradually appear farther away, like Wriggle's "Comet on Earth." Then they burn up like fuses.

There's some kind of wisp on the boss's head. It also seems like Sakuya just died there, but she already collected most of the power items she dropped. I wonder if those two items to the right of the boss came from destroying wisps.

I think the boss has a cape, which means we may have another addition to the cape wearing 2hu club.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Nindella on May 11, 2013, 12:35:57 AM
Orin  :blush:

I really hope... I really really really do...  :ohdear:

I can only dream...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 11, 2013, 12:42:08 AM
Wooo Sakuya returns! Here's hoping Remilia will also be present in some way! :D

Sorry, I'm just so happy. I can't wait for the demo!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 11, 2013, 12:48:20 AM
Sakuya's knives are red and blue. Marisa's portrait has red and blue. The flamethrower attack is red. Maybe the mechanics will have something to do with colors?
There's something going on at the bottom right of the Marisa picture.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 12:53:48 AM
Sakuya's knives are red and blue. Marisa's portrait has red and blue. The flamethrower attack is red. Maybe the mechanics will have something to do with colors?
There's something going on at the bottom right of the Marisa picture.
2.7%? Maybe it's a % completion with that shot type, and maybe a graphic will be added behind it to make it stand out more.

Speaking of that screen shot, can someone translate it? That could answer some questions of what will be used, if not the default weapons. Also, probably debunk my borrowing idea.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Raikaria on May 11, 2013, 12:54:44 AM
The game has a "weapon select" instead of a shot type select. Presumably ties into the plot. Marisa is selecting the Mini-hakkero, which has Illusion Laser unfocused, Hakkero Fire focused, and Dark Spark as its bomb.

Wait what? Inb4 Mima is behind it

Sakuya is back, so ZUN isn't dropping the EoSD cast yet.

Also the plot seems like 13.5 is the end of the Religion Arc.

The plot of 'normally peaceful youkai acting up' makes me wonder if any returning foes will, you know, return.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Oldmansour on May 11, 2013, 01:04:25 AM
Only three characters.
No Sanae, no Youmu, get Sakuya instead.

Well, at least it didn't turn out to be another phantasmagoria game. Still, now I await touhou 15.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 11, 2013, 01:12:25 AM
The plot of 'normally peaceful youkai acting up' makes me wonder if any returning foes will, you know, return.

That makes me think the Youkai are making a sort of rebellion. By the way, isn't TD's Extra Stage called "raise the flag of rebellion" and didn't Zun mention that said stage was a hint of how the following game would be like?

Either that or someone somehow is manipulating the "peaceful" youkai's emotions, causing them to become aggressive.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tao-Sensei on May 11, 2013, 01:21:57 AM
Marisa's face on the character select.

I literally choked on the chips I was eating when I saw it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 11, 2013, 01:23:11 AM
Sakuya's knives are red and blue. Marisa's portrait has red and blue. The flamethrower attack is red. Maybe the mechanics will have something to do with colors?
To add to that, Reimu's paper things on her gohei are blue and green on the title screen, and there's a mirror. And the word "shining" in the Japanese title (according to the translation anyway). Does seem like light and colors may be a theme.

(Maybe less relevant, Marisa's flamethrower seems to be making some red, green, and blue swirls when it hits things, and those colors have been associated with lives, bombs, and points before. Not sure if anything can be made from that though.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Marisa Kirisame on May 11, 2013, 01:34:28 AM
My turn.  =)

I do wonder that the whole "weapons going nuts" thing is and if it will have any effect on the gameplay.

From the translation's wording, stage 6 or some point in the game may end up working like the end of stage 5 in IN.

Sakuya's Return could be fun. I did love her shots in PCB (outside of fighting Merlin's first non-spell XD), not so much in IN.

I am gonna wait for the demo instead of trying to speculate if that boss is a returning character or not.  XD

Marisa shooting fire?!?!Game over, I know who I am using forever, though the whole Dark Spark thing has me intrigued. =)

I hope the music's good, I did enjoy Seiga and Miko's themes from the last game but the rest was a bit lacking.

on the one member's comment, please god no Gengetsu. (jk), I've been hit by her RAPE TIME enough as it is today.  XD
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Despatche on May 11, 2013, 01:42:03 AM
Should have been a Phantasmagoria; guess I can throw that theory away. Premise is good, I like the subtitle. Thought the game was going to be about demons from the title, though a double entendre would be easy. Nearly every (other?) post in this topic seems to be trolling in some way.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tao-Sensei on May 11, 2013, 01:48:28 AM
Should have been a Phantasmagoria;

I'm a little glad it's not a Phantasmagoria. Though, I'll leave it to you to guess why.

Not that I have anything against Phantasmagoria games, it's for a reason that has nothing to do with the games themselves.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 11, 2013, 01:52:06 AM
Should have been a Phantasmagoria

I think Zun has given up on the phantasmagoria games already. Last one was full of bugs... bugs that he didn't even bother to correct.

This is a good thing at least for me, since I never liked any of those games.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 11, 2013, 01:54:31 AM
Every game should have been a phantasmagoria. Unfortunately ZUN fails to realize his own genius.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 11, 2013, 02:14:34 AM
Ta-Dah!

(http://i.imgur.com/l7Wa0x3.jpg?1)

told you she is not Orin but i wonder what will be her official name?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 11, 2013, 02:14:44 AM
Wow.  I'm off playing on the PS3 and return to find this wonderful gem of news.  Oooh this month is so good both for my real life and my gaming life!

Marisa with a flamethrower amuses me very much.  I always thought she would try to play with Fire magic at some point in time.  Can't wait to see the other weapons for all three characters.  It will be interesting as to how ZUN handles the story with the attacks.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 11, 2013, 02:29:47 AM
I like how the fanart currently draws her with knives when it should be obvious that they're either Sakuya's shots or her "runaway" knife, given Sakuya is shooting at her.

The percentage on character select is probably not clear %, given that 12 is probably the number of plays and 2.2% (or 2.7%) makes no sense. I guessed that it's number of plays and character usage % over all plays.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 11, 2013, 02:31:17 AM
PLAYABLE ICHIRIN PLAYABLE SAKUYA THIS IS BEST MONTH
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 11, 2013, 02:34:20 AM
PLAYABLE ICHIRIN PLAYABLE SAKUYA THIS IS BEST MONTH

yeah
(http://i.imgur.com/H5YUHRD.jpg?1)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 11, 2013, 02:42:32 AM
Wait holy fuck

Ichirin's in THIS GAME TOO?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 11, 2013, 02:43:18 AM
I think that's fake, though. It's just Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya. Right?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 02:45:25 AM
The percentage on character select is probably not clear %, given that 12 is probably the number of plays and 2.2% (or 2.7%) makes no sense. I guessed that it's number of plays and character usage % over all plays.
I was thinking the percentage was something percentage of spell cards cleared. It's a meter for the completionist. Although, in the end, I think that corner is going to get more work. I think it's going to get a background graphic and other numbers.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 11, 2013, 03:05:11 AM
I like how the fanart currently draws her with knives when it should be obvious that they're either Sakuya's shots or her "runaway" knife, given Sakuya is shooting at her.
I don't think it's one of Sakuya's knives because if you look at the ones she's throwing, they all have a blue or red tail following them. The one that mystery character X is holding lacks a tail in any way. Furthermore, the angle of the red knife doesn't coincide with any of the other red knives being thrown. The only other red knife that Sakuya is throwing in her general area are flying straight ahead. Finally, shes holding out her hand as if to hold the knife.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 11, 2013, 03:09:19 AM
When bullets (in any game from PoFV onwards) hit something, they kinda turn gray and spin off to the side. That is 100% for sure, no doubt about it, one of Sakuya's knives.

Also, that percentage thing displays at the title screen as well as character select, in case people didn't notice. I don't think it would be character usage over all plays.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 03:13:57 AM
I don't think it's one of Sakuya's knives because if you look at the ones she's throwing, they all have a blue or red tail following them. The one that mystery character X is holding lacks a tail in any way. Furthermore, the angle of the red knife doesn't coincide with any of the other red knives being thrown. The only other red knife that Sakuya is throwing in her general area are flying straight ahead. Finally, shes holding out her hand as if to hold the knife.
There is also a strange knife below the mystery character but above the wisp thing below her. That knife also doesn't have a tail and is at an even stranger angle. I don't know what the knife by the enemy is, I wonder how it hasn't hit the enemy yet.
If what Zil says is right then I'd say it's Sakuyas knife.

@Zil, good catch on the title screen.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 03:15:55 AM
I know what you mean by the blue trails, but it is Sakuya's knife. Its shape is exactly the same as the knives. The knife's guard is bending backwards.

>There is also a strange knife below the mystery character but above the wisp thing below her.

I think it's part of the magic circle.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 11, 2013, 03:19:58 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/qDIsJbS.jpg)

Note the tilted white rectangles. It's the same thing happening with the knives.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 03:32:03 AM
I think it's part of the magic circle.
It seems to me that the magic circle appears much darker and has no other apparent markings besides that one crooked sword right there. That seems like a weird magic circle.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 03:38:07 AM
Translation:

The weapon selection screen:

Quote
Weapon Select - Please select your type

Use Youkai Artifact "Mini-Eight Trigram Furnace"
Heat-Releasing Firepower Type

Unfocused Shot: Illusion Laser
Seamless forward-attacking lasers

Focused Shot: Eight Trigram Fire
Flamethrower attack with limited range, powerful at a close distance

Spell Card: Youkai Artifact "Dark Spark"
Drawing out the Mini-Eight Trigram Furnace's heat power to the highest limit.
A laser that returns everything to nothingness.

Aquamarine Level
NORMAL MODE
A relatively [easy?] difficulty. For all ages.

Reimu's dialogue:
Quote
"A youkai disturbance is happening at such a near place to the human village!?"

IRIC "youkai disturbance" 妖怪騒ぎ is a very new phrase to the Touhou universe, first appearing in last month's FS Chapter 6, and seems to refer to minor disturbance caused by youkai activity.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 03:42:04 AM
ZUN you clever deviant. Constructing the weapon selection screen so that we wouldn't be able to see other options. I guess this still leaves the weapons wide open as a subject of speculation.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 11, 2013, 03:47:54 AM
ichirin
bad shop, good attempt at the style
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 11, 2013, 03:54:56 AM
why can shop not be real ;_;
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 04:10:21 AM
Analysis and speculation:

Title:
Touhou Kishinjou - Castle of Shining Needles

Kishin = oni gods from hell, like the one who tried to assassinate Seiga in WaHH. Needle mountain is an important feature of hell, referenced by Remilia and Orin's spell card, and mentioned very recently in FS Chapter 1. The hint is too blatantly obvious, must be a trap.

The symbol in the game logo looks sort of like a modern tatoo. With Sakuya, the Western-style mirror frame in title screen, the logo, and a boss wearing a red cape, the game's tone feels a bit more Western than recent games.

Needless to say, this is like MoF, another back-to-basic game with a revamped engine. Note that ZUN calls EoSD a "20th Century-Extending Game of 21th Century" (see its cover). Now he's doing "2000s Neo-Retro".


Pre-game:
It sounds like each character will have two choices: "[use possessed weapon and] struggle against the weapon in one's own hands", and "abandon weapon". As shown in the screenshots, the Mini-Hakkero has become corrupted, and can be used as a flamethrower.

People have pointed out Reimu's gohei stick kept getting longer with each game. It's even longer now.

Normal mode is "for all ages", so Easy is "for children", Hard is "for adults", and Lunatic is probably "for long-living youkai".


Stage and season:
In what appears to be the 1st stage... Reimu shouldn't have dialogue before the game starts, so her zero score must be the result of debugging.

The stage is a road with water on its left side, pebbles and willows on its right side. The story should take place in summer. Previously summer was occupied by fighting games, but with HM taking place in spring, summer is free again.


Story:

The peaceful youkai are rebelling, so maybe the TD Extra title is a preview of that. Or it's a preview for both HM and DDC.

It's also interesting to see ZUN use the word 大人 again in the story synopsis. It's literally "like an adult", meaning "docile, quiet". You can see it a whole lot in the IaMP story.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 11, 2013, 04:13:55 AM
As shown in the screenshots, the Mini-Hakkero has become corrupted, and can be used as a flamethrower.

Quote
can be used as a flamethrower

Quote
CAN BE USED AS A FLAMETHROWER HOLY CRAP

:]
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 11, 2013, 04:20:02 AM
My friend said that someone found a beta picture of the new character and that she looks like a maid with a sword.  Is this true?

Thanks in advance!

And great to see that this got announced sooner than expected!  Was thinking that we'll have to wait until at least Monday...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: WestTxTapper on May 11, 2013, 04:24:29 AM

 Easy is "for children"


I hope this doesn't mean that he gave in to that ridiculous meme about "only kids play easy".
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 04:26:21 AM
Isn't the Mini-Hakkero some kind of heating element that is re-purposed as a weapon. I remember that it was mentioned in Curiosities of Lotus Asia and used as such in Silent Sinners in Blue, on the spaceship. The fact that it's shooting fire can't be too strange.

My friend said that someone found a beta picture of the new character and that she looks like a maid with a sword.  Is this true?
It's not surprising to see fan art out early, so maybe your seeing that. The fact that this picture has not come to this thread, makes me think what your seeing isn't legitimate.
The safe option is to always be weary, ask for the sources, and make sure the sources are legitimate. Assume anything else, no matter how plausible, to be speculation. This announcement is, apparently, from ZUN's official blog which is why we trust that information.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Shadow on May 11, 2013, 04:35:26 AM
All of my yes. This made my day.

One of my main interests right now would be the overall difficulty. After 10D, I would personally prefer something SA or UFO-caliber in terms of challenge, but this is just me. On the other hand, I am wondering whether ZUN has mastered the new music style he had experimented with in Ten Desires. It was nice seeing (er, hearing?) a change of style, so this is something to look forward to as well.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 11, 2013, 04:39:51 AM
Isn't the Mini-Hakkero some kind of heating element that is re-purposed as a weapon. I remember that it was mentioned in Curiosities of Lotus Asia and used as such in Silent Sinners in Blue, on the spaceship. The fact that it's shooting fire can't be too strange.
 It's not surprising to see fan art out early, so maybe your seeing that. The fact that this picture has not come to this thread, makes me think what your seeing isn't legitimate.
The safe option is to always be weary, ask for the sources, and make sure the sources are legitimate. Assume anything else, no matter how plausible, to be speculation. This announcement is, apparently, from ZUN's official blog which is why we trust that information.
Just confirmed it with my friend, and yeah, the fan art that was posted here is the one he's talking about..

(http://i.imgur.com/qDIsJbS.jpg)

Note the tilted white rectangles. It's the same thing happening with the knives.
Where is this from?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Jq1790 on May 11, 2013, 04:58:10 AM
Where is this from?
Looks to be UFO Stage 1, while fighting Nazrin as...ReimuA?  Not sure on player there, but the rest I'm pretty sure about.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 05:11:41 AM
Another detail I noticed...

We used to speculate that if Sakuya is playable again, following the convention after MoF, her option should be a watch.

In the screenshot, Sakuya's options are playing cards (which she uses when teleporting in fighting games). This also ties into the etymology of the word "double-dealing".
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: shadowbringer on May 11, 2013, 05:12:13 AM
opinions/thoughts/etc:

- there's a swirling theme to the game (the HUD, the destroyed fairies in the flamethrower screenshot; though they seem to have the old explosion effects as well). It's possible that said swirls are for focused mode only (may be part of a scoring mechanic, like Ketsui's, or like the secondary shot in ESP Ra De)
- Sakuya's shot looks like spread shots; it seems that she has moved a bit while autofiring
- the final boss is when's Neo-Mima, because SoEW was the retro-est of the Touhou shmups (for the sake of the series' evolution -- even if ZUN doesn't like calling his games a series --, and for SoEW's misfortune. It might as well be the Donpachi of the Dodonpachi series.)
- agree that this game sounds like the start of another "arc" (like MoF), with it's (kind of) premise of return to basics
- maybe the story will involve finding out who's/what's the cause of the weapon's loss of control and the youkai's behavior, and may involve fighting their own weapons or doppelgangers (their opposite shot types)
- maybe the game resembles MoF's premise (of return to the origins or basics) a bit too much ("resetting" the playable characters), and Sakuya was added to remind people that old characters haven't gone anywhere (Sakuya in particular being from the first Windows-era Touhou game), or Sakuya is actually important to the plot?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 11, 2013, 05:15:11 AM
- ZUN is aiming for a 'retro' theme, and has replaced complex scoring systems with making the core gameplay as simple as possible.
YES

- Plot synopsis: Everyone's weapons have been possessed, and at the same time there's a new outbreak of youkai activity
OKAY

- Sakuya finally made it back as a playable, while Sanae is absent.
Clearly she was murdered
HOPEFULLY BETTER THAN PCB SAKUYA

I'll be looking forward to the trail version. Also, seems like ZUN is keeping the Spell Practice as a permanent fixture in the games now.
...Holy hell you're right HALLELUJAH

- Reimu's sprite, is it me or she was prettier in TD?:V
If you have a thing for ghosts, maybe. I'll take anything over TD.

Did someone give any of you a good excuse to start talking about TD? Those days are OVER

SHOTGUNNING MARISA, HOLY FUDGE

Yeah, I think my only worry is TOO MANY recurring characters. The translation kind of hints to that IMO.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: EthanSilver on May 11, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
...No Sanae in this one? Sakuya playable once again? A return to simple game mechanics? OMFG U GAISE I CALL FAEK! :o There's no way ZUN can be this awesome. :D

Excuse me while my squids and I go crack open the "no-more-Sanae" champagne... =D

(Edit: Oh wait, spell practice too? Wtf, I think I'm having a stroke or something. Next you'll be telling me I won't have to wait until next year to see a demo or something...)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Amraphenson on May 11, 2013, 05:25:07 AM
alliterator the big fonts hurt.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 05:26:40 AM
Oh by the way, that "ZUN made the game easier so his wife can play" thing is not about this game. It happened in the past, so it can only be about IN's Easy mode.

Quote
- there's a swirling theme to the game (the HUD, the destroyed fairies in the flamethrower screenshot; though they seem to have the old explosion effects as well).
Good point.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iK on May 11, 2013, 05:27:56 AM
A bit off the topic, but would anyone happen to know the pixiv tag for "mystery character" to describe the new? girl?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 11, 2013, 06:40:14 AM
This is why Sakuya is out to solve this incident:
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3020/34453a07039e8aa53b5b234.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/34453a07039e8aa53b5b234.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: danyun on May 11, 2013, 06:52:04 AM
Reimu is looking too adorable for her own good.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tsalop on May 11, 2013, 07:12:41 AM
Dat short haired Reimu... Me like!
Also Sakuya? I have been waiting her to be playable for a long time...
If th14 starts a new story arch, does this also mean a start of a new arch
where Sakuya is nearly always playable character instead of Sanae?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Lepetit89 on May 11, 2013, 07:24:55 AM
So the rumors that it would be a PoFV-styled game were false? A bit of a pity, but I'm looking forward to it either way. I've never been too great a fan of scoring, so I'll be happy as long as the patterns and the music are interesting. I really like this game's art, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 11, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Flamethrower Marisa made my day :V.

Also, Dark Spark? Corrupted Hakkero? Very interesting...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: gtbot on May 11, 2013, 08:24:46 AM
That is 100% for sure, no doubt about it, one of Sakuya's knives.
it is Sakuya's knife. Its shape is exactly the same as the knives.

While I do feel that those knives may in fact be Sakuya's, there are also effects (obscured by bullets) that are within the path of Sakuya's knives that resemble the decay effect's sprites from PoFV. It looks more like the new character is dropping the knives from her hand, which would explain her arm being extended out and the odd positioning of the two visible 'disabled' knives. However, I'm not particularly sure why someone would do that.

(Here's a picture I threw together) (http://i.imgur.com/ZKwUloO.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 11, 2013, 08:57:03 AM
Clearly the name and the mirror references have nothing to do with the final boss or the plot and it's all a case of ZUN Names Games and the complaints about it are ridiculous

Is that pictured boss holding a sword? Seems like a good first candidate for "beating up people who curse things"
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 11, 2013, 09:05:21 AM
Quote
As shown in the screenshots, the Mini-Hakkero has become corrupted, and can be used as a flamethrower.

I believe Marisa was flame-throwing since MoF, and if you consider Magic Napalm as a worthy substitute, than since PCB. In SSiB she uses the Hakkero as an engine thruster for the rocket to the Moon. And the very nature of the mini Hakkero is a miniature FURNACE. Still surprised that it can generate heat?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 11, 2013, 09:12:06 AM
Based on everything cuc has written (especially the stuff about hell references) and the "neo-retro" theme of the game, it is clear who is the mastermind of this incident...

Ladies and gentlemen... Konngara! Yes, the final boss of the very first Touhou game.  :V Or Shinki as someone else said, in which case the game would take place in Makai (I wish).
Honestly, hell or Makai or heaven... Zun should let one of the newer games take place in there again. Would also be an excellent time to have old characters return.


Anyway, I'm eager to see this, play this and listen to this, regardless of the main cast and Youmu / Sakura / Sanae / whatever. TOUHOU GO!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 09:21:06 AM
A mirror youkai in which you can see other youkai, invented by Toriyama Sekien, based on Chinese stories of the mirror that reveals youkai's true forms:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9B%B2%E5%A4%96%E9%8F%A1

A custom where used needles are enshrined, sticked into tofu, and buried in earth (the tofu is put into rivers). Takes place on February 8 or December 8.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%87%9D%E4%BE%9B%E9%A4%8A

As with everything, if not properly treated, those needles may turn into youkai.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 09:41:50 AM
Um, I know the word "double-dealing" originated from poker, but I know absolutely nothing about poker. Can someone explain its probable etymology?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: N-Forza on May 11, 2013, 09:46:39 AM
You deal cards to players one at a time, and everyone must have the same number before a player can receive another. Double dealing is when one player is given more than one card per pass, which can be seen as giving them an unfair advantage.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2013, 10:17:45 AM
Thanks! I thought it would involve more advanced terminology.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zoriri on May 11, 2013, 11:03:29 AM
Actually, seeing as how the plot has the characters weapons becoming corrupted, maybe that knife by the boss character is one of Sakuya's, and it decided to join the youkai boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 11, 2013, 12:16:58 PM
Yay armpits at the main screen :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iK on May 11, 2013, 12:23:57 PM
Actually, seeing as how the plot has the characters weapons becoming corrupted, maybe that knife by the boss character is one of Sakuya's, and it decided to join the youkai boss.

I knew I chose correctly when I made the Yin-Yang Orb my waifu.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 11, 2013, 12:45:13 PM
Actually, seeing as how the plot has the characters weapons becoming corrupted, maybe that knife by the boss character is one of Sakuya's, and it decided to join the youkai boss.

Yeah, I think we'll probably see a couple of Tsukumogami characters in this game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Yonowaaru on May 11, 2013, 12:49:40 PM
Anyone else notice the weird, sigil-like thing behind the 'Double Dealing Character', both in the title screen and the game screens?
I have no clue what it is, but it seems like it's mirrored. Mirrors seem like an important thing in this game.


There's the mirror/painting frame on the title screen which has a silhouette holding a.. sword? A stick? A needle?
[size=78%]It's kind of hard to make out, but she (assuming it's a she because ZUN) seems to be wearing a frilly dress with very long sleeves.[/size]
Wait, never mind me. Since it's a reflection, it's obviously Reimu herself, her having huge sleeves and stuff. The needle is just her gohei.

Also, I noticed the forest on the lower right, the sky with birds upper right and.. some kind of sea/lake on the left?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 11, 2013, 12:55:06 PM
It's really weird how the magic circle is tilted like that. Does it flip when the character-boss-person faces right? She looks center to me.

A thing to note about the mirror is that the blue and green... tail things coming out of the gohei don't exist in the mirror version. Or is that how they're meant to work?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Cadmas on May 11, 2013, 12:58:00 PM
Well these portraits look better than TD. Faces are derp, but at least they don't look like they are riding with brooms in their butts.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2013, 01:07:24 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/BHgdHQ8.jpg)

The title is very telling. Here we have a game creator who is newly married, who has chosen to call his latest release "Double Dealing Character". This reflects on his unconscious worries about what married life will bring for him, with an underlying anxiety about betrayal and loss of control. This is further emphasized in creating a story for the game wherein his beloved characters "lose control" of their "weapons". ZUN fears his marriage will mean the loss of control in his life, to be sure, but even his marriage isn't the root of his anxiety; age is. He has been producing games for so long now - notice how he joked about the number of Touhou games thus far in the preface for this game - that he fears what awaits him in the future: loss of the ability to come up with new ideas, loss of imagination, but even more so, the loss of that old thrill that used to come with making games. This is why he brought back Sakuya - a character who first appeared in his very first Windows release. He also mentions that this new game is "neo-retro", showing a need to reconcile the past and the present. As he settles into a more domestic life, marriage makes him feel old; like an adult, and he fears losing the child-like joy for making new Touhou games, that he will lose "control" over his "weapon" (and I hardly need to point out that double entendre there). In order to remedy this, he has chosen to bring back older elements, hoping this will breathe some of that old joy into the games, for himself and his fans alike. Also, he had a mother who spoiled him and a cold and distant father, but that is another story.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zoriri on May 11, 2013, 01:13:02 PM

It's really weird how the magic circle is tilted like that. Does it flip when the character-boss-person faces right? She looks center to me.

A thing to note about the mirror is that the blue and green... tail things coming out of the gohei don't exist in the mirror version. Or is that how they're meant to work?

I'm thinking that ZUN's just trying a new take on the magic circle, making it spin in more than just 1 dimension, but it would be cool if it changed depending on where you are on the screen,

As for the paper tail things on the gohei, maybe the energy surrounding them are preventing there refection from appearing? Either that or ZUN derped up on the art.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 11, 2013, 01:13:49 PM
thank you based Ammy
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 11, 2013, 01:16:07 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/BHgdHQ8.jpg)

The title is very telling. Here we have a game creator who is newly married, who has chosen to call his latest release "Double Dealing Character". This reflects on his unconscious worries about what married life will bring for him, with an underlying anxiety about betrayal and loss of control. This is further emphasized in creating a story for the game wherein his beloved characters "lose control" of their "weapons". ZUN fears his marriage will mean the loss of control in his life, to be sure, but even his marriage isn't the root of his anxiety; age is. He has been producing games for so long now - notice how he joked about the number of Touhou games thus far in the preface for this game - that he fears what awaits him in the future: loss of the ability to come up with new ideas, loss of imagination, but even more so, the loss of that old thrill that used to come with making games. This is why he brought back Sakuya - a character who first appeared in his very first Windows release. He also mentions that this new game is "neo-retro", showing a need to reconcile the past and the present. As he settles into a more domestic life, marriage makes him feel old; like an adult, and he fears losing the child-like joy for making new Touhou games, that he will lose "control" over his "weapon" (and I hardly need to point out that double entendre there). In order to remedy this, he has chosen to bring back older elements, hoping this will breathe some of that old joy into the games, for himself and his fans alike. Also, he had a mother who spoiled him and a cold and distant father, but that is another story.

Ammy-Freud strikes again. :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 11, 2013, 01:27:12 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/BHgdHQ8.jpg)

The title is very telling. Here we have a game creator who is newly married, who has chosen to call his latest release "Double Dealing Character". This reflects on his unconscious worries about what married life will bring for him, with an underlying anxiety about betrayal and loss of control. This is further emphasized in creating a story for the game wherein his beloved characters "lose control" of their "weapons". ZUN fears his marriage will mean the loss of control in his life, to be sure, but even his marriage isn't the root of his anxiety; age is. He has been producing games for so long now - notice how he joked about the number of Touhou games thus far in the preface for this game - that he fears what awaits him in the future: loss of the ability to come up with new ideas, loss of imagination, but even more so, the loss of that old thrill that used to come with making games. This is why he brought back Sakuya - a character who first appeared in his very first Windows release. He also mentions that this new game is "neo-retro", showing a need to reconcile the past and the present. As he settles into a more domestic life, marriage makes him feel old; like an adult, and he fears losing the child-like joy for making new Touhou games, that he will lose "control" over his "weapon" (and I hardly need to point out that double entendre there). In order to remedy this, he has chosen to bring back older elements, hoping this will breathe some of that old joy into the games, for himself and his fans alike. Also, he had a mother who spoiled him and a cold and distant father, but that is another story.
:o
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 11, 2013, 01:33:51 PM
Anyone else notice the weird, sigil-like thing behind the 'Double Dealing Character', both in the title screen and the game screens?
I have no clue what it is, but it seems like it's mirrored. Mirrors seem like an important thing in this game.
cuc mentioned that the thing behind the title screen looked like a modern tattoo and that the game has a western feel but that's all. I have no idea what it is.

Or is that how they're meant to work?
Mirrors? No, that's not how they are meant to work. It is weird though that the tail things aren't copied even though that seems well within ZUN's ability to do. I still don't think that's as weird as the mirror flipping Reimu's reflection.

People have been saying that if the sword/knife were part of the enemy sprite it would explain why she has her arm out to one side like that. I will point out that the blade is pointing to her hand, something that is distinctly unusual and that poses sometimes change when characters move. We have no idea what the enemy is doing in that frame.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 11, 2013, 01:38:09 PM
Perhaps the fact that Reimu's gohei is not reflected and that it is glowing blue and green has something to do with the possession of the weapons?
I also find it interesting that Marisa's Mini-Hakkero is actually being shown to light a fire... I'm wondering if in each character portrait they're holding their possessed weapons?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 11, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/BHgdHQ8.jpg)

The title is very telling. Here we have a game creator who is newly married, who has chosen to call his latest release "Double Dealing Character". This reflects on his unconscious worries about what married life will bring for him, with an underlying anxiety about betrayal and loss of control. This is further emphasized in creating a story for the game wherein his beloved characters "lose control" of their "weapons". ZUN fears his marriage will mean the loss of control in his life, to be sure, but even his marriage isn't the root of his anxiety; age is. He has been producing games for so long now - notice how he joked about the number of Touhou games thus far in the preface for this game - that he fears what awaits him in the future: loss of the ability to come up with new ideas, loss of imagination, but even more so, the loss of that old thrill that used to come with making games. This is why he brought back Sakuya - a character who first appeared in his very first Windows release. He also mentions that this new game is "neo-retro", showing a need to reconcile the past and the present. As he settles into a more domestic life, marriage makes him feel old; like an adult, and he fears losing the child-like joy for making new Touhou games, that he will lose "control" over his "weapon" (and I hardly need to point out that double entendre there). In order to remedy this, he has chosen to bring back older elements, hoping this will breathe some of that old joy into the games, for himself and his fans alike. Also, he had a mother who spoiled him and a cold and distant father, but that is another story.
I never had an idea - The end of Touhou might be nigh?!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 11, 2013, 02:00:27 PM
I never had an idea - The end of Touhou might be nigh?!
Perhaps you should take a look at this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14699.0.html). This might clear things up. ^^;
As far as I know, though, Touhou's still going to go on for a while, even if ZUN stops working on it (whether he will or not I don't know, but it doesn't seem like he will stop). The fans might very well carry the series in perpetuity. That's how I see it, at least.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 11, 2013, 02:04:22 PM
I still don't think that's as weird as the mirror flipping Reimu's reflection.

No, there's absolutely nothing strange with that mirror. You can see a reflection like this if it's at the right angle. If it wasn't shadow-like in that picture, you'd see Reimu's face in it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 11, 2013, 02:16:58 PM
alliterator the big fonts hurt.

I'm sorry, I was a bit hyper. I'll use large-but-still-reasonable fonts in the rest of the thread. :3
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Avakyon on May 11, 2013, 02:23:37 PM
People have been saying that if the sword/knife were part of the enemy sprite it would explain why she has her arm out to one side like that. I will point out that the blade is pointing to her hand, something that is distinctly unusual and that poses sometimes change when characters move. We have no idea what the enemy is doing in that frame.

I know it could just be a coincidence that one of Sakuya's dead knives got caught in the shot at that particular moment, but it still gives me another idea. A normal person would naturally need to grip the knife in their hand to throw it back, but the way it lines up so well with her hand makes me think she could be using some kind of telekinetic power to stop the knife as it's coming at her and after this screen she will send it back down in some fashion.  That would cover the point about it being weird how the knife is pointing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Serela on May 11, 2013, 02:49:33 PM
Quote
This time, I've doubled the resolution of the game
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Now I can run it on my modern monitor and it won't look like -garbage-. This was the biggest issue I had with my CRT breaking. ;_;

I mean, I can still do 640x480 windowed fine, but my play takes a big hit. With double the resolution, fullscreen should be functional again and if I do windowed it'll still look good if I size up the window to compensate. Yesss.

Oh and the game looks cool too. TD had a significant increase in ZUN's anatomy or whatnot, but the actual drawings seemed really simplified, like he had taken sketches and used the fill function on them in MSPaint. But now they look pretty interesting again. Also, 3 character with 2 shot types each > 4 characters with 1 shot. (Also better then two with three each)

Since he's also taken a lot longer to get this out then he did with the games after UFO, I'm a lot more confident it won't be another 10D incident. I'unno, the game just... isn't that enjoyable.

Also about the name DDC is a pretty nice game abbreviation imo just sayin'

Quote
Also I note spell practice is back again. Will we see more last words/overdrives? :o
I like Challenge Spellcards (as a whole), but Overdrives (Apart from Kyouko's) mostly weren't that interesting so it's exciting to have a new chance at something more like IN's repertoire
also a return of the spellcard comments from IN would make me squeal because I always like those kinds of things
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Eiburine on May 11, 2013, 03:09:36 PM
Wow, Zun's art is getting a lot better.
I can't wait for this XD
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: trancehime on May 11, 2013, 03:41:11 PM
well

this is certainly interesting, just got caught up.

unfortunately it doesn't seem likely i'll give the demo a shot when i can (because when have i ever played a windows toho game for longer than a week outside of phantasmagoria) but playable sakuya after how many games is neat to see.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: SirChaotick on May 11, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
How in the heavens did I miss this? I am truly and well a barbarian.

At any rate, awesomeness is awesome.
I'm impartial about Sakuya. She's as good as anyone else I guess. At the very least, this'll confirm she's still... there.
Different shot types are a good thing~
That character... when I'm unbiased, I'd say the chance of her being Orin is pretty low. When biased, I'd say it's nonexistent. Never again. Maybe she can be the stage 2 midboss, that's all I'll stomach.

26 May. Ho-hum.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 11, 2013, 04:41:05 PM
According to the wiki, the translation for the Japanese title is "Eastern Castle of Shining Needles." Who knows what that means, but perhaps it means there'll be a setup like EoSD where they visit a previously unknown mansion? In the forest? In any case, I hope shining needles doesn't refer to more lasers. >.<

Magic Needle Attack? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNN5T-O4qB4)

My body is ready.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 11, 2013, 05:24:46 PM
The translation in the OP has been edited slightly for nuance and for one minor error. Thank you to all you gorgeous translators who point these sorts of things out.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Shikieiki on May 11, 2013, 05:49:46 PM
Thank God, no Sanae and no Youmu.

The art is wonderful too.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 11, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Thank God, no Sanae and no Youmu.

 >:(

Anyway, I'm excited on what new characters we would get. And hopefully, they don't have bullshit hax power (though ZUN seems to be avoiding this nowadays).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 11, 2013, 11:53:31 PM
How I regret not being able to go to Reitaisai this year. It was to be expected to be grand for it's 10th festival.

Ah well. Need to prepare the demo article I guess once it is released.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 12, 2013, 01:13:48 AM
Now that Sakuya's playable again, I hafta admit that I have more sympathy for Sanae and Youmu than I once realized.

Bummer.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 12, 2013, 01:25:36 AM
A break every once in a while is good for every character.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 12, 2013, 01:27:52 AM
Quote
A break every once in a while is good for every character.

Tell that to Reimu and Marisa.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 12, 2013, 01:31:59 AM
Reimu's job is never done. The girl's almost always on the grind.

Part of her charm.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 12, 2013, 01:33:19 AM
Tell that to Reimu and Marisa.

Hey, the show's gotta have SOME stars to bill! :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 12, 2013, 01:41:41 AM
Though I must admit, Reimu took a break in Fairy Wars and Shoot the Bullet and Marisa took her break in HRtP (duh) and STB too.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Serela on May 12, 2013, 01:54:20 AM
Marisa took her break in HRtP (duh)
Uhhhhhh :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Fonzi on May 12, 2013, 02:11:12 AM
Well, okay, it was before she even started her youkai-hunting career. Happy now?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mesarthim on May 12, 2013, 03:01:54 AM
I'm just curious as to what my preferred character and/or type is going to be this game.

6: Reimu B
7: Marisa A or B
8: Anything, no preference
9: Why am I listing this it isn't the same type
10: Reimu A or B, Marisa B
11: Reimu B
12: Anything except Marisa B, enough tables have been flipped
13: Reimu or Youmu, they both have ups and downs.
14: ??? I'll find out when the time comes.

Though I do find the title to be a bit weird.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 12, 2013, 03:10:17 AM
Here`s what i found.

Quote
My guess for the theme is Tarot Cards and fortune telling. Mainly because double dealing makes me think of cards and character could refer to the images on Tarot cards. They're also used for fortune telling. I think the last boss could be a 1000 year old fortune teller who has the power to control people's fate.

It also originated in europe, and Sakuya & the Scarlet Devil Mansion are involved here and they're very victorianesque like. Not only that, Remilia also can manipulate fate thus she could be sending Sakuya to deal with that character who can also control fate because she feels threatened by it.

I think double dealing could refer to the King and Queen decks in cartomancy. Not only that, the boss in a screenshot used what i think is heart shaped danmaku. I think the four characters will each represent each card suite. Coins/diamond, swords/spades, heart/cup, and Wands/clubs.

Reimu- coins
Marisa- wands
Sakuya- Swords

not sure if Double Dealing Characters is about Tarot cards?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 12, 2013, 03:18:42 AM
I wonder if we will ever see a Phantasm Stage again? I'm sure Yukari's pretty lonely in that regard.

Possible, but unlikely? Or just plain no?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 12, 2013, 03:53:46 AM
No, there's absolutely nothing strange with that mirror. You can see a reflection like this if it's at the right angle. If it wasn't shadow-like in that picture, you'd see Reimu's face in it.
I can see what you mean but only after I throw out conventional interpretations of what I see. The mirror appears to be facing us and appears to be behind Reimu. There would have to be a very intense optical illusion going on for that to be a normal mirror.

@Zakari: That could be cool. Although, strangely disappointing. I guess I expect something a little more exotic then themes I already know about.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 12, 2013, 04:44:52 AM
Perhaps you should take a look at this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14699.0.html). This might clear things up. ^^;
As far as I know, though, Touhou's still going to go on for a while, even if ZUN stops working on it (whether he will or not I don't know, but it doesn't seem like he will stop). The fans might very well carry the series in perpetuity. That's how I see it, at least.
Yes, I never suspected him really stopping, although I do wonder how long this will continue. After all Touhou is somewhat like a red line that is drawn through his life since he started studying. Also, that thread is really funny.


Here`s what i found.

not sure if Double Dealing Characters is about Tarot cards?
Mh, but for that the mirror seems to be too important, since mirrors can have really deep meanings? Your guess isn't bad, though. Maybe both play a role. It would even be possible, if ZUN had implemented alternative routes in this game like he had in HRtP or IN. After all ZUN had written that the characters could either, stick to their weapons or abandon them - Maybe it's presented in form of a path select choice after stage X and depending on which choice is being made, the mirror or the tarot cards get more meaningful in the later stages.

The mirror would probably be important when the character sticks to her own individual weapon and then has to face off the youkai that is possessing it. Abandoning the weapon would lead to an alternative path in which the player meets the fortune teller you mentioned - Probably telling the character that she will choose the other path (making it a bad and also silly ending which ZUN is known for implementing).

Just tossing out some speculations here.  :getdown:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 12, 2013, 09:26:13 AM
I can see what you mean but only after I throw out conventional interpretations of what I see. The mirror appears to be facing us and appears to be behind Reimu. There would have to be a very intense optical illusion going on for that to be a normal mirror.

If that would be the case, it's far too much to the side. The way I see it, it's to the Reimu's side and turned at nearly 90 degrees to her, which is perfect for a side-to-side inverted reflection. Then again, given there are no depth perception cues whatsoever, it's all just an empty speculation and opinion, but it's not like ZUN is such a bad artist that he couldn't draw a picture with a sense of volume (see Changeability of Strange Dream cover).

EDIT: Actually, it's the way Reimu stands - clearly turned a bit from the viewer - which convinces me that depth perception applies here. Yeah, we have ZUN's drawing that isn't flat. Even I can see now that his art has improved.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: notext on May 12, 2013, 09:36:03 AM
Now that Sakuya's playable again, I hafta admit that I have more sympathy for Sanae and Youmu than I once realized.

Bummer.

If there's one thing that Sakuya's return shows, it's that a major character can drop out for a long time, but won't stop being a major character and can show up again in the future. I have no doubt that, if official Touhou games keep getting made, Sanae will show up again at some point.

I wasn't a big fan of Mountain of Faith, so the idea that the system will be streamlined again worries me a little. But I'm hopeful that this will be good.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 12, 2013, 10:17:50 AM
Quote
Dark Spark
Mima.pc98 pls
Quote
Possessed Weapons
Kana Anaberal, Fourth Prismriver, Rin Satsuki.
Never mind me, just being abit silly here.

Anyways, this looks really good. Sakuya is back, more danmaku focused, interesting story, nothing to dislike so far. The Orin-esque character looks... interesting and ZUN got more creative with his shottypes, yay! Also, the magic circles seems to rotate in 3D aswell now?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: fondue on May 12, 2013, 10:19:54 AM
it's that a major character can drop out for a long time, but won't stop being a major character and can show up again in the future.
(http://i.imgur.com/umqzD5Q.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 12, 2013, 11:35:46 AM
Mima.pc98 pls
Fun fact: Mima doesn't use any form of "Spark" attacks in canon.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Firestorm29 on May 12, 2013, 11:54:13 AM
Thing I find interesting with Reimu's picture I've noticed is other times I've seen red, green and blue colors is when Miko and Kanako got serious during their battles. Little too tired right now to try and build what that could mean here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 12, 2013, 11:56:11 AM
Fun fact: Mima doesn't use any form of "Spark" attacks in canon.

Eeyup. Mima fans seem to take Touhou Soccer as canon, which is a bad, bad thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 12, 2013, 11:57:40 AM
Fun fact: Mima doesn't use any form of "Spark" attacks in canon.
Depends how you look at it. It's very understandable if someone interprets her Mystic Square bomb as a spark like deathray falling from the sky :P

Just no twilight spark :(
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: shadowbringer on May 12, 2013, 01:01:06 PM
The mirror would probably be important when the character sticks to her own individual weapon and then has to face off the youkai that is possessing it. Abandoning the weapon would lead to an alternative path in which the player meets the fortune teller you mentioned - Probably telling the character that she will choose the other path (making it a bad and also silly ending which ZUN is known for implementing).

Just tossing out some speculations here.  :getdown:

it may be possible that there's (another) Stage 6B in the series, or even a True Last Boss (there were borderline examples of TLBs in the Touhou series, though they would be considered easy to get to: Mima's final pattern in SoEW, Yuuka's stage in LLS, Stage 6B in IN)

Fun fact: Mima doesn't use any form of "Spark" attacks in canon.

also, speaking of special attacks, Marisa has copied Reimu's pine tree shots from SoEW, Patchy's Non-Directional Laser nonspell, besides Mima's orreries sun and Yuuka's "Master Spark".

today's speculation: Sanae and Youmu will be in TH13.5 to make for their absence in TH14, or they'll be unlockables in TH14 :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 12, 2013, 01:24:28 PM
As far as I know, ZUN didn't bother with the actual spell card naming until Touhou 6? (Windows games era launch). He clarified this somewhere in the afterword translations of either PCB or IN that danmaku has become more than just bullets, but a form of expression dialogue. So not quite sure if we can name PC98 attacks/appearances as they aren't like the Windows Era games.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 12, 2013, 01:27:00 PM
As far as I know, ZUN didn't bother with the actual spell card naming until Touhou 6? (Windows games era launch). He clarified this somewhere in the afterword translations of either PCB or IN that danmaku has become more than just bullets, but a form of expression dialogue. So not quite sure if we can name PC98 attacks/appearances as they aren't like the Windows Era games.

Not only were they not named, they weren't spellcards.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 12, 2013, 01:38:33 PM
Not only were they not named, they weren't spellcards.
Indeed. Wasn't Touhou quite more "dark and edgy" before the Windows era? For instance during the fight against Mai and Yuki one of the two dies, in HRtP one of the two final bosses suicides and wants to take Reimu with her, in several games several bosses state that they don't want to die yet and then there is Yuuka with "Genocide is just another game".
The spellcard rules in the Windows era were implemented to basically prevent the residents of Gensokyo from killing each other off, as far as I remember.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 12, 2013, 01:41:33 PM
Fun fact: Mima doesn't use any form of "Spark" attacks in canon.
I know, I was rather pointing at the fact of a darkened spark or "darkness" in common. But I guess more would say Rumia to that, it's just a thought that comes with Marisas skills being darkened/corrupted. Silly when I think about it now.

And doesn't Meiras theme have a strange name? Well, there's almost no information in canon about her, so I guess there's not much to say about it.
The spellcard rules in the Windows era were implemented to basically prevent the residents of Gensokyo from killing each other off, as far as I remember.
But that doesn't quite make sense, does it? Noone really seems to die in touhou 1-5. (considering Mima was in HRtP.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 12, 2013, 01:42:57 PM
The only thing I know is that ZUN said on an E-Mail that we should ignore the PC-98 era as much as possible. Touhou pretty much got a reset from EoSD and onwards, so we should only take the windows era into consideration.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 12, 2013, 01:43:59 PM
Indeed. Wasn't Touhou quite more "dark and edgy" before the Windows era? For instance during the fight against Mai and Yuki one of the two dies, in HRtP one of the two final bosses suicides and wants to take Reimu with her, in several games several bosses state that they don't want to die yet and then there is Yuuka with "Genocide is just another game".
The spellcard rules in the Windows era were implemented to basically prevent the residents of Gensokyo from killing each other off, as far as I remember.

I wouldn't call it dark and edgy exactly, but it certainly took the fights more seriously. Although this aspect of the setting wasn't suddenly changed in the Windows era or anything. EoSD's dialog was written as if you killed Sakuya, for example. And even though she came back in the next game, up through IN there were still numerous references to the youkai eating you if you lost or conversely being killed (ie: Yuyuko eating Mystia). And of course Mokou died every spellcard. While you can see in retrospect that they were joking, the games were still written as if the characters were fighting to the death.

It wasn't until PMiSS that the non-lethal nature of spellcard duels was really emphasized.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 12, 2013, 02:27:41 PM
Eeyup. Mima fans seem to take Touhou Soccer as canon, which is a bad, bad thing.
While I do know that Touhou Soccer isn't canon, I was under the assumption that Twilight Spark is canon at first, but then I saw someone spilling the truth...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: shadowbringer on May 12, 2013, 02:28:19 PM
the endings of the PC-98 games (even the bad endings) seems even sillier than those in the Windows games, so I'd disagree that it was more or less serious than the Windows games, imho.

@ Synnae: iirc someone said that TH3 had a lot of cameos (I only recognize multi and Ellen, though), which would affect the current canon.
PC-98 partially "exists", still, or else, characters such as Marisa, Alice and Yuuka would have to be reintroduced.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 12, 2013, 02:32:48 PM
the endings of the PC-98 games (even the bad endings) seems even sillier than those in the Windows games, so I'd disagree that it was more or less serious than the Windows games, imho.

@ Synnae: iirc someone said that TH3 had a lot of cameos (I only recognize multi and Ellen, though), which would affect the current canon.
PC-98 partially "exists", still, or else, characters such as Marisa, Alice and Yuuka would have to be reintroduced.
There's also a tiny cameo from Doraemon.  I think it's when Yumemi is presenting Multi to Reimu...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 12, 2013, 02:34:49 PM
the endings of the PC-98 games (even the bad endings) seems even sillier than those in the Windows games, so I'd disagree that it was more or less serious than the Windows games, imho.

@ Synnae: iirc someone said that TH3 had a lot of cameos (I only recognize multi and Ellen, though), which would affect the current canon.
PC-98 partially "exists", still, or else, characters such as Marisa, Alice and Yuuka would have to be reintroduced.

Alice and Yuuka were reintroduced. They were treated the same as any other boss, and if you weren't already familiar with them you wouldn't even notice. At best they have little gags about how Reimu can't remember them.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sagus on May 12, 2013, 03:29:49 PM
At best they have little gags about how Reimu can't remember them.
That's true for Alice, but Reimu was very familiar with Yuuka in PoFV:

Reimu: "Ah, there you are! You're the culprit, aren't you? [...] Everything went back to normal when I defeated you back then!"

PC-98 is "canon" only in the sense that the general outline of events probably happened. But they are unrelated and utterely irrelevant to whatever is going on nowadays.

Regarding the game, I'm pretty hyped for it, since it's the first game I'll witness being released! I don't really care much about the gameplay, I like pretty much all the games equally regarding that, so I'm more curious about how the story will go. Argh, these two weeks will take forever to pass...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 12, 2013, 04:12:22 PM
And doesn't Meiras theme have a strange name? Well, there's almost no information in canon about her, so I guess there's not much to say about it.But that doesn't quite make sense, does it? Noone really seems to die in touhou 1-5. (considering Mima was in HRtP.)
What about Sariel? And Yuki / Mai in Mystic Square?


The only thing I know is that ZUN said during an interview that we should ignore the PC-98 era as much as possible. Touhou pretty much got a reset from EoSD and onwards, so we should only take the windows era into consideration.
Didn't he say that mainly to get people to stop calling for Mimas return? After all he did bring a handful of characters back, only a few but still.


I wouldn't call it dark and edgy exactly, but it certainly took the fights more seriously. Although this aspect of the setting wasn't suddenly changed in the Windows era or anything. EoSD's dialog was written as if you killed Sakuya, for example. And even though she came back in the next game, up through IN there were still numerous references to the youkai eating you if you lost or conversely being killed (ie: Yuyuko eating Mystia). And of course Mokou died every spellcard. While you can see in retrospect that they were joking, the games were still written as if the characters were fighting to the death.

It wasn't until PMiSS that the non-lethal nature of spellcard duels was really emphasized.
Yes, I remember. You're right. Maybe Touhou was never really all that dark. Just trying to wonder where I actually got that from, because someone else told me that and it made sense at that time when I thought about it.


the endings of the PC-98 games (even the bad endings) seems even sillier than those in the Windows games, so I'd disagree that it was more or less serious than the Windows games, imho.

@ Synnae: iirc someone said that TH3 had a lot of cameos (I only recognize multi and Ellen, though), which would affect the current canon.
PC-98 partially "exists", still, or else, characters such as Marisa, Alice and Yuuka would have to be reintroduced.
They're still quite different, despite their similiar appearance. Other background stories and they have quite different catch phrases and intentions which makes them more interesting. But it could be one of the reasons he doesn't want to reintroduce them. Maybe he'd feel that an old character that was already in a game would be a waste of boss for a level? His official statement was that he'd just find it awkward habing to reintroduce them, though.

Also, that PC-98 is canon is something I'd support. He never really retconned any character or place, he just has them not reappear in the windows games or he gives reasons why you don't run into the old characters. For instance in UFO the player character returns to Makai and instead of being presented with retconned new Makai the situation given just suggests that you are in a completely different "corner" of Makai and entering Makai in a non-tradional way (Murasas ship).

And didn't he state in an interview that Mima and Genji are still around, but just staying at the shrine of Reimu all of the time?

Also suspicious: Byakuren has one spell that is a direct clone of Shinkis spell. Then again ZUN seems to love giving other people nostalgia. In almost every game there is a remix or remastered piece of the "old times", so it's not like he is completely dumping the PC-98 era. He just leaves them in the past of Gensokyo and barely touches them.
That's true for Alice, but Reimu was very familiar with Yuuka in PoFV:

Reimu: "Ah, there you are! You're the culprit, aren't you? [...] Everything went back to normal when I defeated you back then!"

PC-98 is "canon" only in the sense that the general outline of events probably happened. But they are unrelated and utterely irrelevant to whatever is going on nowadays.
Another good clue that points in the direction of PC98 being canon. Enough derailing from me for now, though. This is just such an interesting topic, it always sidetracks me the instant when it pops up.


Regarding the game, I'm pretty hyped for it, since it's the first game I'll witness being released! I don't really care much about the gameplay, I like pretty much all the games equally regarding that, so I'm more curious about how the story will go. Argh, these two weeks will take forever to pass...
And it will just be the demo! The full release will take some more time. :P Until then you will be told tradionally by the boss of the third level that you may not continue your journey despite beating her, hehehe.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 12, 2013, 04:26:48 PM
If that would be the case, it's far too much to the side. The way I see it, it's to the Reimu's side and turned at nearly 90 degrees to her, which is perfect for a side-to-side inverted reflection. Then again, given there are no depth perception cues whatsoever, it's all just an empty speculation and opinion, but it's not like ZUN is such a bad artist that he couldn't draw a picture with a sense of volume (see Changeability of Strange Dream cover).

EDIT: Actually, it's the way Reimu stands - clearly turned a bit from the viewer - which convinces me that depth perception applies here. Yeah, we have ZUN's drawing that isn't flat. Even I can see now that his art has improved.
Sorry, I don't quite see what your saying here. You say there are no depth perception cues but there is the fact that the mirror is behind Reimu. I don't see how the mirror can be in any other orientation then facing the viewer and that gives Reimu one location where she can be, in front of the mirror.
Top down view:
-------           <--Mirror with reflection on the left
        \           <--Reimu

   V               <--Viewer

Yeah, the reflection appears too far on the left but that's just ZUN fudging it a little for the sake of good composition. Otherwise the reflection would appear so close to Reimu that it would be incomprehensible.

I think you're suggesting something more like this:
          /       <--Mirror with reflection on the left
       /
    /       \    <--Reimu

       V         <--Viewer
While I can see why this might be tempting, the reflection off of that mirror would not look like the silhouette of the Reimu we see because we'd be looking at her from a different angle. As an example, we see Reimu holding her gohei behind her head, then in her reflection we should be seeing Reimu holding her gohei beside her head and we don't see that. Plus, if this were the case we'd be seeing the side of the mirror frame and we don't do that either.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sagus on May 12, 2013, 04:36:00 PM
What about Sariel? And Yuki / Mai in Mystic Square?
Sariel's pretty ambiguous, the only thing you have going for her/him/it is the name of its theme, so one can't say for sure.
And Yuki/Mai probably didn't die; ZUN says so here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails).

And it will just be the demo! The full release will take some more time. :P Until then you will be told tradionally by the boss of the third level that you may not continue your journey despite beating her, hehehe.
....ffffffffffFFFFFFFF I forgot it was only the demo =P THANKS MAN NOW I'M EVEN MORE IMPATIENT
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 12, 2013, 04:37:09 PM
Didn't he say that mainly to get people to stop calling for Mimas return? After all he did bring a handful of characters back, only a few but still.

Nope. That's actually because someone asked something about Yuki and Mai. ZUN never stated that it was to get people to stop wishing for Mima's return. Here is the passage:

Quote from: ZUN's E-Mail
> ? Are Yuki and Mai really dead?
> I know we're dealing with a PC-98 game, but were Yuki and Mai from Mystic Square really killed?
> Looking in particular in the conversation when Lady Mima and Yuki are left... (sweat)
> Or is this also a type of joke, like Lady Remilia's statement that "Sakuya is dead" in EoSD?

ZUN: Basically, they're whatever-works types, so they might not be dead.  I generally have no comment regarding
the PC-98 games.  Please ignore them just as one can ignore derivative works. :-)

-EDIT-

lol, ignore this. I didn't read the post before this one.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 12, 2013, 05:17:37 PM
Sariel's pretty ambiguous, the only thing you have going for her/him/it is the name of its theme, so one can't say for sure.
And Yuki/Mai probably didn't die; ZUN says so here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails).
....ffffffffffFFFFFFFF I forgot it was only the demo =P THANKS MAN NOW I'M EVEN MORE IMPATIENT
He's actually asking why Mai and Yuki's themes have sinister-sounding names.  Mai, I can understand, since she's actually happy when you defeat Yuki, but Yuki...  No idea...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 12, 2013, 06:03:08 PM
I took up Meira because her themes name is "Power of Darkness" while she seems to have nothing to do with it in the first place. Her dialogue is also strange, almost like she somehow belongs to the Hakurei bloodline.
I dunno, but Darkness Spark still sounds really cool for a bomb attack.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 12, 2013, 06:12:49 PM
Darkness Spark still sounds really cool for a bomb attack.

I'm starting to suspect this Dark Spark is actually an Antimatter Laser, Since the description says it's a  "laser that returns everything to nothingness" which is basically what Antimatter does after colliding with matter.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 12, 2013, 06:19:12 PM
Sariel's pretty ambiguous, the only thing you have going for her/him/it is the name of its theme, so one can't say for sure.
And Yuki/Mai probably didn't die; ZUN says so here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails).
....ffffffffffFFFFFFFF I forgot it was only the demo =P THANKS MAN NOW I'M EVEN MORE IMPATIENT
So many comments from the man himself. Thank you for this link. :3 Also, don't be too impatient or the Yama will come and lecture you.

Nope. That's actually because someone asked something about Yuki and Mai. ZUN never stated that it was to get people to stop wishing for Mima's return. Here is the passage:

-EDIT-

lol, ignore this. I didn't read the post before this one.
Thank you, too. Even though you were late. :P


He's actually asking why Mai and Yuki's themes have sinister-sounding names.  Mai, I can understand, since she's actually happy when you defeat Yuki, but Yuki...  No idea...
From the translated scripts it appears they have a master-servant relationship somewhat and Yuki is the master. Or Yuki is just calling the shots more often. Either way, they don't seem to be completely equal. It would also explain why Mai would'nt be sad about her dying (or not dying whatever).
Also, Yuki gets really pretty mad once you beat Mai, so maybe that's the reason for the name of her theme.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 12, 2013, 06:27:14 PM
I took up Meira because her themes name is "Power of Darkness" while she seems to have nothing to do with it in the first place. Her dialogue is also strange, almost like she somehow belongs to the Hakurei bloodline.

She doesn't. She just wanted to steal the power of the Hakurei Ying-Yang Orbs. Of course, Reimu thought that Meira was A: a man, and B: hitting on her. Hence Reimu's very weird dialogue in the same scene.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 12, 2013, 06:32:53 PM
She doesn't. She just wanted to steal the power of the Hakurei Ying-Yang Orbs. Of course, Reimu thought that Meira was A: a man, and B: hitting on her. Hence Reimu's very weird dialogue in the same scene.

What I found to be weirder was Meira trying to steal Reimu's balls :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 12, 2013, 06:41:13 PM
I am Meira. I have come here
to take the Hakurei.
  :V

Anyways, just a thought since Mima told Reimu that only those of the Hakurei bloodline could use the power of the orbs. But I guess Meira was unaware of the fact then.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 12, 2013, 06:50:26 PM
Plus, if this were the case we'd be seeing the side of the mirror frame and we don't do that either.

*facepalm* Sorry, my bad, should've noticed that.

But yeah, I meant the latter case. The reflection has a bit distorted dimensions (or is it just me after staring at it too much?), and it's all shadow-like so we don't see any details, so I find that case plausible. That's just my opinion, and if you don't find it convincing, I don't mind you having your own, it's not like it's something too important. For all we know, that could be just a magical mirror that displays a "dark" copy of a character by itself.

...Oh my goodness, could that be a plot point?! :o
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 12, 2013, 07:43:14 PM
I'm starting to suspect this Dark Spark is actually an Antimatter Laser, Since the description says it's a  "laser that returns everything to nothingness" which is basically what Antimatter does after colliding with matter.

Oh please, that's obviously hyperbole.  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 12, 2013, 08:09:52 PM
Oh please, that's obviously hyperbole.  :V

That and an Antimatter laser would utterly destroy everything in the surrounding area, Mini-Hakkero and Marisa included, if only from the resulting explosion from the antimatter and matter colliding.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 12, 2013, 08:15:03 PM
And if there's one thing ZUN is known for, it's a strict adherence to the laws of physics. :colbert:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 12, 2013, 08:37:05 PM
I WANT MY FLAMETHROWER ALREADY. :getdown:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 12, 2013, 08:43:40 PM
That and an Antimatter laser would utterly destroy everything in the surrounding area, Mini-Hakkero and Marisa included, if only from the resulting explosion from the antimatter and matter colliding.

I know, but there would be a bit of magic involved as well, so, it'd not be THAT destructive. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 12, 2013, 08:46:48 PM
And if there's one thing ZUN is known for, it's a strict adherence to the laws of physics. :colbert:
> Touhou lasers in a nutshell.
Would be interesting to have your own demotivational beam to fire at people you don't like.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 12, 2013, 08:50:47 PM
*facepalm* Sorry, my bad, should've noticed that.

But yeah, I meant the latter case. The reflection has a bit distorted dimensions (or is it just me after staring at it too much?), and it's all shadow-like so we don't see any details, so I find that case plausible. That's just my opinion, and if you don't find it convincing, I don't mind you having your own, it's not like it's something too important. For all we know, that could be just a magical mirror that displays a "dark" copy of a character by itself.

...Oh my goodness, could that be a plot point?! :o
Yeah, for the most part I just wanted to argue about fact of the matter. What we can reasonably guess is that mirrors are probably plot related.

Speaking of mirrors and hella cool things, do people know what conic sections are? In short, they are a set of mathematical constructions that, among other things do some really cool things to stuff that is reflected off of them. For example, an ellipse or oval is a conic section, that has two points in it's interior such that any ray of light shot from one of these points will always hit the other point.
I would love if conic sections came up in a game about mirrors, because the stuff is too cool to ignore.

As for antimatter... that's too easy. Saying your weapon fires anti-matter and is thereby ultra powerful is lazy and uncreative.
Lets say I have a gun that can fire anti-matter bullets. OP, right? Well, whats the gun made out of? If it's matter then the bullets should destroy the gun before I can fire them, and if it's anti-matter then the gun should be destroyed when in contact with the air. Well, what I actually have is a Mini-Hakkero reactor which creates and fires anti-matter from the space right in front of it. That's fantastic, but that anti-matter is still going to disappear as soon as it contacts the air. Well, to counter that I just create the anti-matter faster then the air can destroy the anti-matter. Great so once that's done you propel the anti-matter toward your target, at a really high speed. Have you ever tried getting something to a really high speed? That can be hard. This is anti-matter but anti-matter just has negative mass, not no mass, so the amount of... anti-energy you need to propel it is still considerable. Of course I'm not firing anti-matter bricks, I'm firing anti-matter protons and anti-matter electrons which have so little anti-mass they require so little anti-energy to speed them up... I just have to fire a shit ton of these things. So now I've got my beam of antimatter carving it's way into a world where everything destroys it until it finally hits my opponent, who begins to get annihilated... except hes already dead because in the time it took to solve just the logistical problems with anti-matter and with far less energy then it took to conjure the anti-matter (most of which was lost to the environment), a traditional laser killed him. Anti-matter is overrated because if a material exists there already exists a material that can break it, without invoking something like anti-matter.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 12, 2013, 09:49:23 PM
You summed it up perfectly. Anti energy is unbelievably hard to get. You're pretty much playing with the fabric of existence at this point when speaking of Anit-Matter; and it's not easy playing God.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 12, 2013, 10:31:45 PM
You summed it up perfectly. Anti energy is unbelievably hard to get. You're pretty much playing with the fabric of existence at this point when speaking of Anit-Matter; and it's not easy playing God.
That isn't what I said. I know nothing about how hard it is to get anti-energy, or anti-matter, I don't even know where to begin finding out (besides google), so I can't or won't make the statement you just made. However, I don't have to bother with that stuff, because the problem is much simpler. If I have two Mini-Hakkero reactors, magical items the workings of which are a complete mystery, which can both conjure and propel a 9mm bullet, and only differ in the fact that one uses matter and the other uses anti-matter, I can propose that the one using matter bullets will be many times more effective at shooting things.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 12, 2013, 10:57:04 PM
You summed it up perfectly. Anti energy is unbelievably hard to get. You're pretty much playing with the fabric of existence at this point when speaking of Anit-Matter; and it's not easy playing God.

It's practically impossible to have anti-matter in this universe, because it will cancel itself out as soon as it touches any matter. Not that positrons and other anti-matter particles don't exist, but it would essentially have to be man-made in our universe.

And if there's one thing ZUN is known for, it's a strict adherence to the laws of physics. :colbert:

Okay, you got me there. ^^;
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 12, 2013, 11:25:15 PM

It's practically impossible to have anti-matter in this universe, because it will cancel itself out as soon as it touches any matter. Not that positrons and other anti-matter particles don't exist, but it would essentially have to be man-made in our universe.
And we've done it :D (http://www.technewsworld.com/story/71269.html)

That isn't what I said. I know nothing about how hard it is to get anti-energy, or anti-matter, I don't even know where to begin finding out (besides google), so I can't or won't make the statement you just made. However, I don't have to bother with that stuff, because the problem is much simpler. If I have two Mini-Hakkero reactors, magical items the workings of which are a complete mystery, which can both conjure and propel a 9mm bullet, and only differ in the fact that one uses matter and the other uses anti-matter, I can propose that the one using matter bullets will be many times more effective at shooting things.
I wasn't summarizing what you said, I just provided a point that I believe would back up your argument further.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 12, 2013, 11:28:25 PM
>Anti-matter laser

There's no such thing as anti-photon.

>PC-98 characters

TVTropes has a good expression for it: they were "put on a bus". Instead of outright making the early immature works non-canon, the author simply keeps those aspects out of sight, like almost everything in the first years of Peanuts.

I won't be surprised to see Shinki in HM's Makai stage background.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 12, 2013, 11:47:06 PM
I love how you guys are trying to rule out possible things to come in Touhou 14 with science, in a game where millenia-old little girls are flying around throwing magic bullets at each other.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 13, 2013, 12:31:43 AM
>PC-98 debate.

/me grumbles

Why are people so dead-set on the idea of PC-98 being non-canon anyway? Think about it: Has there ever been a reason to think they aren't canon other than the fact that the Western Touhou Community has always said that? The absolute best you can come up with is that almost none of the characters from back then have returned, but, uh, that's about as logical as saying high school isn't canon because you haven't seen any of the people from back then since graduation. That interview with ZUN can be taken to mean that (although I've read a translation in the past that made the critical sentence take on a different meaning), but the idea has been around longer than that interview.

Also I have to laugh at the equally dated idea that PC-98 is darker than Windows. Have you read the translations? While the atmosphere of the games themselves are a little dark at times, the plots are all irreverent and silly. The tense secret behind the yin-yang orbs is to turn into a cat for Kanako's sake!

Okay, Donut PC-98 rant over for now. But what does this have to do with DDC anyway?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 13, 2013, 12:52:45 AM
>PC-98 debate.

/me grumbles

Why are people so dead-set on the idea of PC-98 being non-canon anyway? Think about it: Has there ever been a reason to think they aren't canon other than the fact that the Western Touhou Community has always said that? The absolute best you can come up with is that almost none of the characters from back then have returned, but, uh, that's about as logical as saying high school isn't canon because you haven't seen any of the people from back then since graduation. That interview with ZUN can be taken to mean that (although I've read a translation in the past that made the critical sentence take on a different meaning), but the idea has been around longer than that interview.

Also I have to laugh at the equally dated idea that PC-98 is darker than Windows. Have you read the translations? While the atmosphere of the games themselves are a little dark at times, the plots are all irreverent and silly. The tense secret behind the yin-yang orbs is to turn into a cat for Kanako's sake!

Okay, Donut PC-98 rant over for now. But what does this have to do with DDC anyway?
Who said that PC-98 is non-canon? What I have been argueing the entire last page was that it actually very much is and others have also said that. :3

And we got to the topic because of speculations regarding a few characters from that time that would fit DDCs theme and might reappear.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 13, 2013, 12:57:56 AM
Mmm, well alright. Still, the issue does bug me, and it's kinda a sore spot with me.

And what theme are we talking about? It's rather hard to tell just from the given information what the theme of this game will be. Besides being based on Darius Gaiden, that is.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 13, 2013, 01:12:33 AM
I love how you guys are trying to rule out possible things to come in Touhou 14 with science, in a game where millenia-old little girls are flying around throwing magic bullets at each other.
That's not what we're doing. We're just talking about how we feel about the idea of antimatter in touhou. I wouldn't like it for reasons I've stated, and it looks like Validon and Kosachi have reasons for not liking it much either. I think the scenario is unlikely, but if Touhou 14 comes out and I hear Marisa is firing antimatter, I'm gonna do a head-desk, because that's just weird.

And what theme are we talking about? It's rather hard to tell just from the given information what the theme of this game will be. Besides being based on Darius Gaiden, that is.
Some ideas are that gemstones and mirrors will be a theme. Also the corruption of weapons has been posited to be the work of the big bad.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 01:14:40 AM
That's not what we're doing. We're just talking about how we feel about the idea of antimatter in touhou. I wouldn't like it, and it doesn't look like Validon and Kosachi would like it much either. I think the scenario is unlikely, but if Touhou 14 comes out and I hear Marisa is firing antimatter, I'm gonna do a head-desk, because that's just weird.

Right, and the reasons you're using is these things make no sense scientifically, which is a really weird complaint for a gameworld based entirely on *~*~M A G I C~*~*
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Star King on May 13, 2013, 01:34:37 AM
- character fanboy arguments
- heavy analysis of what is really obviously Sakuya's knife
- anti-matter Master Sparks

This is bringing me back to the pre-Brawl days. I've forgotten how silly people's speculations are in the pre-release days of a game. I mean, forgive me, I haven't been around for a Touhou release so I guess I'm not used to it, but jeez.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kami-sama! on May 13, 2013, 01:46:05 AM
I take a break after feeling ashamed and stupid about not knowing how to download a game and i come back to this. :o
Oh well, I'm planning on trying again anyways.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 13, 2013, 01:50:02 AM
Right, and the reasons you're using is these things make no sense scientifically, which is a really weird complaint for a gameworld based entirely on *~*~M A G I C~*~*
You can read my post again, there's no science in there. I draw conclusions from the assumptions that antimatter is the opposite of matter and that when the two meet they annihilate each other and the only reason I assume those things is because that's what antimatter traditionally is.
If ZUN puts an antimatter masterspark into the game it'll get really annoying to talk about because this in-game thing will have the same name as this other out-of-game thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 01:53:00 AM
You can read my post again, there's no science in there. I draw logical conclusions from the assumptions that antimatter is the opposite of matter and that when the two meet they annihilate each other and the only reason I assume those things is because that's what antimatter traditionally is.

Yep, no science there, not one bit, no sir, I done got told.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 13, 2013, 01:56:50 AM
Yep, no science there, not one bit, no sir, I done got told.
No, there isn't any science there. Science is based off of empirical evidence, not the ideas of a culture built up around fantasy.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 13, 2013, 01:59:52 AM
Remind me why any of these matter in a video game again.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 02:02:07 AM
No, there isn't any science there. Science is based off of empirical evidence, not the ideas of a culture built up around fantasy.

Alright, now I have no idea what you're going on about, but you clearly cannot take even the mildest teasing without responding like some kind of robot.

It doesn't matter what matter and antimatter do when they meet. It doesn't matter if it makes no sense, isn't scientifically sound or "logical". It's Gensokyo, the place where logic goes to die.

:kanakodwi:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 13, 2013, 02:28:35 AM
Man some of ya'll are picky.

I'm a simple man. I just want my FLAMETHROWER. :getdown:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 13, 2013, 02:30:18 AM
Alright, now I have no idea what you're going on about, but you clearly cannot take even the mildest teasing without responding like some kind of robot.

It doesn't matter what matter and antimatter do when they meet. It doesn't matter if it makes no sense, isn't scientifically sound or "logical". It's Gensokyo, the place where logic goes to die.

:kanakodwi:

Thank you. Thank you very much, Tengukami. Those are exactly my thoughts, I'm glad someone else feels the same way as me. We must remember that only a few people values science in Gensokyo, which is a place ruled by magic.

Man some of ya'll are picky.

I'm a simple man. I just want my FLAMETHROWER. :getdown:

Yeah, I also agree we should simply focus on taking it easy,
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 13, 2013, 02:37:24 AM
Yeah, I'm a bit confused as well. Excuse me if I get caught up in trying to explain things.
...
So, you know what all of this talk of castles and mirrors and gems is reminding me of? This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InuYasha_the_Movie:_The_Castle_Beyond_the_Looking_Glass). Could there be anything to that?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 13, 2013, 02:41:24 AM
- character fanboy arguments
- heavy analysis of what is really obviously Sakuya's knife
- anti-matter Master Sparks

This is bringing me back to the pre-Brawl days. I've forgotten how silly people's speculations are in the pre-release days of a game. I mean, forgive me, I haven't been around for a Touhou release so I guess I'm not used to it, but jeez.
Well, we do have to talk about something, right?  :V I mean, these forums would be empty without a bit of material to talk about!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 13, 2013, 02:51:24 AM
Thank you. Thank you very much, Tengukami. Those are exactly my thoughts, I'm glad someone else feels the same way as me. We must remember that only a few people values science in Gensokyo, which is a place ruled by magic.

Also worthy noting is that the science that DOES exist in Gensokyo seems to be a mixture of theories that people thought would be possible but never panned out (cold nuclear fusion) and theoretical physics (the improbability whatsit that I think is how the Lunarians got to the moon in the first place.

Quote
Yeah, I also agree we should simply focus on taking it easy,

(http://i.imgur.com/yDlUpy1.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 13, 2013, 03:17:29 AM
Well, we do have to talk about something, right?  :V I mean, these forums would be empty without a bit of material to talk about!
Touhou is a pretty active series, and it probably won't die so soon. So... I'm sure we'll keep having plenty of material to talk about for a long time. :D

@Wild Witchy West:
lol. I wonder if we'll get to see some fanart of Marisa cosplaying Pyro from tf2. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 13, 2013, 03:19:45 AM
There should just be a Marisa skin for the TF2 Pyro.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 13, 2013, 04:22:08 AM
This is how i describe touhou music.

TH06 - Kinda dark music
TH07 - Fantastic music
TH08 - All i can hear were piano sounds.
TH09 - Relaxing music
TH10 - Natural music
TH11 - A kinda bit suspicious sounds
TH12 - A very strong and loud music
TH13 - The music is so silly (especially Futatsuiwa from Sado)


then what will be TH14 music sounds like?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 13, 2013, 04:27:04 AM
(especially Futatsuiwa from Sado)
no, your face is silly
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MisterOrange on May 13, 2013, 06:49:52 AM
Remind me why any of these matter in a video game again.

Remind me why speculation is a bad thing? Let's just close the forum then.
And touhou is not just a videogame anymore, what appears in games can appears in books,music, anything.

Oh and magic is science. ( http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Magician )

(Nice edit in  the message under mine btw, looks likes you cant assume the (weird) rage inside you.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 13, 2013, 07:02:39 AM
Remind me why speculation is a bad thing? Let's just close the forum then.
It was all fine up to this point:
Quote
If ZUN puts an antimatter masterspark into the game it'll get really annoying to talk about
A game element is now something for us to "talk about" like a bunch of physicist wannabes. I'm sure ZUN is very grateful to know that he worked his programmer ass off to please people who care more about hurr durr realism and logic than the game itself.

And touhou is not just a videogame anymore
Oh and magic is science.
Simply epic.

I edited it in case people don't catch the point. You can feel free to reply now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 13, 2013, 08:31:12 AM
I just don't want it to be actually antimatter because those Marisa fanboys will inevitably start bringing that up in future powerlevel debates.  :V

Why, yes, I'm a believer of a "low powerlevel" Touhou universe myself.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 13, 2013, 09:08:56 AM
Close the forum?! I need this job! I need to feed my family of siege engines. I need to maintain the SDM and the greedy mistress living inside.

I am sure we are all trying to have a nice time discussing things regarding the upcoming demo. Whether they are silly or non-related to video games or Touhou itself, the idea is to have fun. As Tengukami / Ammy has pointed out, some people are slightly taking this too serious.

Take it easy! as almost every 4koma of Tani Takeshi says.

(logically powerlevel discussions and bad trolling/thread shitting is frowned upon)


Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 13, 2013, 09:11:17 AM
I just don't want it to be actually antimatter because those Marisa fanboys will inevitably start bringing that up in future powerlevel debates.  :V

Why, yes, I'm a believer of a "low powerlevel" Touhou universe myself.
It doesn't matter though. You will never be able to change the way people perceive Touhou. That is after all what gives Touhou a quality many other video games don't have - You can imagine it as whatever you want it to be. It's a dream world. It's how the man himself calls his creation. He has given some lore, but he usually won't butt in if you make something weird out of it (unlike most others would with their own creations).

Some people have a rather dark image of Touhou, others view it as silly or carefree. You can any time go ahead and draw a few fairies doing some flower viewing or shooting little pellets of plastic, if that is what your image of it is. And you certainly shouldn't be bothered by what another fan thinks of the games or the powerlevel of characters. You cannot dictate others what to think and they can't do that to you, either. If a "powerlevel" discussion distresses you, just don't participate in that discussion. Simple solution to a simple problem. Not everyone is holding these discussions anyway. :3

Not to forget that those powerlevel discussions can be really void in their meaning anyway, as Touhou still is a game. It shouldn't be forgotten (but often is) that it will eventually involve game elements that are there for balance reasons (countering any spellcard with a "bomb" for instance looks more like a gameplay element than a lore element; a few select characters beating up entire Temples and hells and alternative dimensions filled with Youkai while exhausted does, too).


Specifically for the Antimatter topic - The game is set in an alternative reality with alternative history, alternative sources of energy and power. If ZUN said Gensokyo has more gravity than the real world for some reason it would be that way, because it's not a realistic setting but an alternative setting. It is already a fantasy setting anyway, given that a lot of fable and fairytale creatures appear in it. Nothing would go haywire because ZUN gives the word Antimatter a different definition than our worlds Antimatter. I mean, Utsuho is a walking nuclear core kind of, that could also never exist in reality. Just think of that and then take it easy. :P
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 13, 2013, 10:15:40 AM
It doesn't matter though. You will never be able to change the way people perceive Touhou. That is after all what gives Touhou a quality many other video games don't have - You can imagine it as whatever you want it to be. It's a dream world. It's how the man himself calls his creation. He has given some lore, but he usually won't butt in if you make something weird out of it (unlike most others would with their own creations).

Some people have a rather dark image of Touhou, others view it as silly or carefree. You can any time go ahead and draw a few fairies doing some flower viewing or shooting little pellets of plastic, if that is what your image of it is. And you certainly shouldn't be bothered by what another fan thinks of the games or the powerlevel of characters. You cannot dictate others what to think and they can't do that to you, either. If a "powerlevel" discussion distresses you, just don't participate in that discussion. Simple solution to a simple problem. Not everyone is holding these discussions anyway. :3

Not to forget that those powerlevel discussions can be really void in their meaning anyway, as Touhou still is a game. It shouldn't be forgotten (but often is) that it will eventually involve game elements that are there for balance reasons (countering any spellcard with a "bomb" for instance looks more like a gameplay element than a lore element; a few select characters beating up entire Temples and hells and alternative dimensions filled with Youkai while exhausted does, too).


Specifically for the Antimatter topic - The game is set in an alternative reality with alternative history, alternative sources of energy and power. If ZUN said Gensokyo has more gravity than the real world for some reason it would be that way, because it's not a realistic setting but an alternative setting. It is already a fantasy setting anyway, given that a lot of fable and fairytale creatures appear in it. Nothing would go haywire because ZUN gives the word Antimatter a different definition than our worlds Antimatter. I mean, Utsuho is a walking nuclear core kind of, that could also never exist in reality. Just think of that and then take it easy. :P

Powerlevel debates can have meaning when it's related to a fanfic though. Meaning, the author may take the arguments presented and put it in the story.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
TH08 - All i can hear is the best music in the series.

FTFY

Personally, I think Touhou 14 is going to involve more trumpeting. I mean, it does seem as though ZUN has found his comfort zone where instrumentation is concerned. What I'd love to hear, though, is more strings. Songs like Eastern Mystical Dream, for example, made great use of a lot of different instrumentation, even if it did sound video-game-y. ZUN can do strings. I'd love it if he re-visited them in TH14.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zengar Zombolt on May 13, 2013, 12:29:21 PM
Besides being based on Darius Gaiden, that is.
Storm Causer loli. That is all. Or maybe Great Thing, too?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ふねん1 on May 13, 2013, 02:05:07 PM
Why did I not see this right away? I mean sure, I don't visit the forums as often as I used to, but still.

Sakuya's back, huh? Guess that's one of the "retro" aspects ZUN was talking about. As for mechanics, I certainly wouldn't mind grazing being prominent again. Better not be like TD where you could do it but other strategies completely eclipse it. And I'm still waiting for Boss Practice to replace Spell Practice. Seriously, it's so much better.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ciel on May 13, 2013, 03:07:48 PM
I really like Sakuya, but I'm a bit tired of seeing her, personally. ^_^; Someone fresh would be nice for a change. She appeared in god knows how many games.

Still, ZUN's art style improved alot! I hope the music is just as good too!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 13, 2013, 03:22:31 PM
Sakuya: PCB, IN, DDC
Youmu: IN, TD
Sanae: UFO, TD
(Fighting games and Phantasmagoria-s not included.)

So he could have stopped the cycle there, really, if he weren't looking for retro-city. (so close to atrocity it's almost the point I'm making :3)
I think it was a few months ago when I said a new character as a playable character would be really interesting. Sort of Phantasmagoria-esque. A shame.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 04:46:52 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/W50widH.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Critz on May 13, 2013, 04:48:30 PM
You forgot somebody :V
(http://i.imgur.com/Y7lQEB7.jpg)

Well, maybe Sakuya's here to make up for IN, as there is pretty much no point in picking her except with Remilia to destroy familiars.

Well, he could have picked anyone  for the spread option as far as I'm concerned, it's just different sprites. IMO multiplayer games is where it's at - both fighting games and phantasmagorias by their very nature have to include diverse playstyles. And since 3+6=9 and 9+6=15, he has no excuse for the next time :3.

The only thing I'm sad about is the lost potential character development for Sanae and maybe revealing yet another side of her. Things I believe are not important anyway to new fans who only need their ice fairies, ninja maids and vampire lolis to be happy instead of worrying about something as trivial as Touhou's plot  :V

EDIT:
(http://i.imgur.com/W50widH.jpg)
Happy now, Sakuya-loving haters? That's what you wished for...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 13, 2013, 04:57:56 PM
^

No way!!

is it Photoshoped?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ふねん1 on May 13, 2013, 05:06:35 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/W50widH.jpg)
Lol yeah I saw that recently. Didn't realize it was related to DDC. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2013, 05:26:11 PM
Things I believe are not important anyway to new fans who only need their ice fairies, ninja maids and vampire lolis to be happy instead of worrying about something as trivial as Touhou's plot  :V

All of which come from EoSD. Shouldn't new fans be less biased towards the older games though? It's understandable that older fans might have some lingering attachment to the "classics" but to new fans it's not like Byakuren is any less prominent than Remilia. And for even newer ones the cast of TD. I suppose the major difference though is the amount of doujin featuring them. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Of doom.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 13, 2013, 05:50:35 PM
The only thing I'm sad about is the lost potential character development for Sanae and maybe revealing yet another side of her. Things I believe are not important anyway to new fans who only need their ice fairies, ninja maids and vampire lolis to be happy instead of worrying about something as trivial as Touhou's plot  :V

Plot? In my Touhou? What is this madness you're speaking of?  :V

All of which come from EoSD. Shouldn't new fans be less biased towards the older games though? It's understandable that older fans might have some lingering attachment to the "classics" but to new fans it's not like Byakuren is any less prominent than Remilia. And for even newer ones the cast of TD. I suppose the major difference though is the amount of doujin featuring them. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Of doom.

Yep. Doujins and fanfics featuring the SDM are practically everywhere. And yet, people still keep making 'em.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 13, 2013, 06:37:04 PM
is it Photoshoped?
I felt kind of sad that the last 'shop with Ichirin as a player character in DDC wasn't real :|

About the EoSD thing, I always wondered why so many seems to love Cirno and Flandre. But alot of the fans may have gotten into touhou thanks to Flandre, so that may be a reason. I guess Cirno is some sort of joke character? (Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)
No comment on the usage of RNG in EoSD.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2013, 06:41:00 PM
(Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)

You mean when he had Marisa fight her with a flashlight? Or made a joke about how all the Danmaku in fairy Wars looks denser than it is because she's Cirno?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 13, 2013, 06:45:39 PM
All of which come from EoSD. Shouldn't new fans be less biased towards the older games though? It's understandable that older fans might have some lingering attachment to the "classics" but to new fans it's not like Byakuren is any less prominent than Remilia. And for even newer ones the cast of TD. I suppose the major difference though is the amount of doujin featuring them. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Of doom.

Well, here you have a fan who discovered Touhou when TD was out for a long time. And still I like EoSD characters the most. At the same time, I can't express how eager I am to see new doujins with TD cast. So overall, liking old or new characters has nothing to do with being old or new fan.

About the EoSD thing, I always wondered why so many seems to love Cirno and Flandre. But alot of the fans may have gotten into touhou thanks to Flandre, so that may be a reason. I guess Cirno is some sort of joke character? (Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)

Before there was Kogasa, Cirno reappeared as stage 1 midboss in PCB. And then there was PoFV...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 13, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
You mean when he had Marisa fight her with a flashlight? Or made a joke about how all the Danmaku in fairy Wars looks denser than it is because she's Cirno?
If I remember correctly, both Marisa and Shikieiki once says something about Cirno being quite strong, atleast stronger than they would have thought she would.
"Almost too strong for a fairy and possible of causing alot of trouble on its own."
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2013, 06:53:05 PM
If I remember correctly, both Marisa and Shikieiki once says something about Cirno being quite strong, atleast stronger than they would have thought she would.
"Almost too strong for a fairy and possible of causing alot of trouble on its own."

"Strong for a fairy" doesn't strike me as a compliment. Marisa's line was more along the lines of "I almost had to try", since she spent the entire fight playing around. "Master Spark-like Flashlight", "Blazing Star-like Tag", etc.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 06:53:57 PM
About the EoSD thing, I always wondered why so many seems to love Cirno and Flandre. But alot of the fans may have gotten into touhou thanks to Flandre, so that may be a reason. I guess Cirno is some sort of joke character? (Although ZUN seems to play with the idea of making Cirno really strong.)

She's reappeared in numerous games, has featured prominently in the written works, and had a game devoted to her wherein she ends up defeating Marisa Kirisame (although, in one of Touhou's funniest moments, both Cirno and Marisa are secretly surprised at how beat up they are, while still talking smack at each other). I don't think she qualifies as a "joke character", if by that you mean a throw-away, insignificant character. But if you mean she has comedy value due to her personality, yeah, I'd agree.

I can't speak for other fans of hers, but she's in my top 10 at least. She has a child-like energy and self-confidence that she can actually back up when push comes to shove. What she lacks in wits she makes up for through sheer determination, which I think is pretty admirable.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 13, 2013, 07:15:20 PM
I don't think she qualifies as a "joke character", if by that you mean a throw-away, insignificant character. But if you mean she has comedy value due to her personality, yeah, I'd agree.
Joke as in comedy is the right impression. She was probably joked around the most in EoSD to a start and with herself being so arrogant and seemingly joking around herself. I got to say it is amusing to see her become quite strong in the games, when everyone thinks otherwise, especially with her being self-proclaimed "the strongest".
Not strange afterall that the fanidea of team nine got created, when especially Wriggle and Mystias dialogues doesn't seem too far away from how Cirnos first one was.

Yes, Cirno is strong and not a minor character, but in FW Marisas clothes barely got scratched. Even after that, Marisa still says that "It may have been close even with a full-powered master spark".
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 07:20:40 PM
Even after that, Marisa still says that "It may have been close even with a full-powered master spark".

Yup. And this is the magician who's battled the baddest of the bad and won. It's kinda neat that ZUN has Marisa simultaneously joke to Cirno "lol i was goin ez on u" while still saying to herself "holy shit that was close".
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2013, 07:21:31 PM
Marisa's also a joke character, in the sense that she's funny. A lot of her lines are literally jokes, and in SoPM they even made a joke about her not being able to come up with a joke. Well, the series is largely written as a comedy, so it makes sense that characters like Marisa and Cirno will be prominent.

For the record though, I've always found Sunny's version of the fairy joke funnier.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 13, 2013, 07:23:40 PM
Personally, I think Cirno is the strongest fairy, and she's probably stronger than the other minor characters in Touhou.

Just don't wank her into ridiculous levels, please.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 07:27:42 PM
Just don't wank her into ridiculous levels, please.

No need - powerlevel discussions are very much frowned upon here. So far, people are just talking about canon. Wouldn't worry too much about the threat of Cirno deified.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 13, 2013, 07:31:10 PM
No need - powerlevel discussions are very much frowned upon here. So far, people are just talking about canon. Wouldn't worry too much about the threat of Cirno deified.

I wasn't talking about the people here specifically.  :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 13, 2013, 07:37:25 PM
And then Cirno became a godess and everyone in Gensokyo alike feared her for who she really was, "the strongest".
Daiyousei is her.... shikigami(?)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2013, 07:41:56 PM
And then Cirno became a godess and everyone in Gensokyo alike feared her for who she really was, "the strongest".
Daiyousei is her.... shikigami(?)
This is mostly unrelated to your post, but it kind of bugs me when people use "god" or "goddess" in this series as if it makes a character impressive. There are weak gods like the Aki sisters in the same way there are weak youkai like Rumia. "God" is a species, not a powerlevel. Even if Cirno became a goddess (which is not technically impossible, although "fear" is more of a youkai thing), that wouldn't actually make her the strongest if she wasn't already, nor would it make people respect her more.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Darkness1 on May 13, 2013, 07:59:31 PM
This is mostly unrelated to your post, but it kind of bugs me when people use "god" or "goddess" in this series as if it makes a character impressive. There are weak gods like the Aki sisters in the same way there are weak youkai like Rumia. "God" is a species, not a powerlevel.
Generally they are more respected than youkai, which is why I used it. Yes, it was a bit incorrect, but also just a random silly post :v.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tiamat on May 13, 2013, 09:12:59 PM
One thing about the SDM cast is that the SDM is huge. Out of all the "organizations" in Touhou, the SDM has the most named characters, an unnamed one, and a whole slew of generic employees. This gives the fandom a LOT to work with.  Between Remilia, Sakuya, Meiling, Patchouli, and Flandre, you pretty much have everything you need for a full cast, with enough range of personality, abilities, and even weaknesses to apply it to almost any plot you can think of, as well as a high chance of at least some of those personalities (be they the fandom version or the canon version) appealing to you. And any hole that's missing can be filled up with blank-slate Koakuma.

Their relationships TO each other are defined, too. We're not completely sure how Ichirin, Shou, and Muramasa interact with each other, but we do know that Remilia is everyones' boss, Flandre is Remilia's younger sister, Meiling works under Sakuya, Sakuya and Meiling and Koakuma work under Patchouli, etc. These relationships are defined just enough for people to have hooks to latch onto without being so restrictive that you have no freedom to play with. Or even if you don't make doujin and fanfic and fan-made stories, someone who simply likes following Touhou just for its canon plot will likely appreciate the fact that these characters have a generally defined canonical relationship to each other.

Actually, IMHO that's kinda a big failing of the characters from UFO and TD, in that we don't know much about how they interact with each other (heck, Seiga is practically the opposite of interacting with the rest of her group, if she's even still a part of it). Meanwhile, MoF and SA suffer from overly small related casts (MoF just has Suwako + Sanae + Kanako for 3, and in SA only the Satori sisters and their two pets are really related to each other).

Even their home is the most developed building in all of Touhou. It has a library, a basement, a bell tower, a garden, a gate, is ridiculously large on the inside with lots of dark corners per Perfect Memento, is near/on a lake, etc.  Again, just like the SDM cast, you pretty much can do almost anything with this setting alone, too.

They also seem to have a good deal of interactions outside the SDM, too. Although the fact that the entire friggin' SDM named cast besides Flandre have been in the previous two fighting games helped that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 09:29:27 PM
Apart from SA having the same number of related cast members as SDM, I agree - the early games generally had tighter stories, i.e., they were stand-alone plot lines with a beginning, a middle, and an end. Personally, I like that ZUN is trying to create multi-game story arcs, though. It gives Gensokyo a broader feel, in terms of the passage of time. Wherever TH14 goes, I'm hoping it'll have the same connectedness, although his "neo-retro" approach might include the idea of a stand-alone plot.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 13, 2013, 09:41:59 PM
Apart from SA having the same number of related cast members as SDM, I agree - the early games generally had tighter stories, i.e., they were stand-alone plot lines with a beginning, a middle, and an end. Personally, I like that ZUN is trying to create multi-game story arcs, though. It gives Gensokyo a broader feel, in terms of the passage of time. Wherever TH14 goes, I'm hoping it'll have the same connectedness, although his "neo-retro" approach might include the idea of a stand-alone plot.

I always liked how the series always had a passage of time. I mean, I like how not every game takes place in the same season. It would be a little boring if the entire series took place entirely in summer, though I guess it wouldn't have THAT much of an impact.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drayen on May 13, 2013, 09:50:05 PM
One thing i really hope is that Zun used the hell out of those 2 years to make a masterpiece like IN... like, different stages/bosses, unlockable lastwords, unlockable solo characters, etc... None of the touhou games had as much replayability as IN.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 13, 2013, 09:56:33 PM
He didn't even have two years to make IN. (2004 IIRC?)
He had two years to make MoF and TD.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Critz on May 13, 2013, 10:13:58 PM
Eientei has the cast of 4, all of which have very defined personalities and interactions between each other (plus the Kaguya-Mokou animosity), yet their barely even appeared after their debut outside of the supplementary material. And the Moriyas are an exceptionally tight-knit group with very distinct personalities, a huge impact on plot and ties to the main characters (Sanae).
Their distinctiveness is propably the reason why both are some of the most prominent casts to appear in doujins, so it's not like SDM is special in that regard (in fact, in canon Flandre is all but absent and Meiling only appears for comedy, plus Sakuya has basically no weakness to apply to her "perfect and elegant" persona outside of the mention in her profiles that she's supposedly prone to absent-mindedness, which doesn't really show much, so she's kinda boring).

Yeah, ZUN please give Eientei the chance to shine AND have Byakuren's crew develop some internal ties and relations. This way both canon and fanon would enjoy more to choose from :3.

And yes, that screeenshot was fake, in case my shoddy copypaste, complete with the lack of option shot transparency and the comment below it didn't tip you off. What, a man can dream ;_;
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2013, 10:21:28 PM
Yeah, IN is my favorite of the shooters, by far. It combined some interesting little gimmicks that were enough to make the game a lot more interesting without obfuscating the gameplay. If TH14 ends up taking a similar approach, I will be one happy tengu.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 13, 2013, 10:22:21 PM
UFO be my second-favorite game overall if it weren't so maddeningly hard.

SHOOOOOOUUUUUU!!! *shakes fist skyward*
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 13, 2013, 10:25:23 PM
Yeah, IN is my favorite of the shooters, by far. It combined some interesting little gimmicks that were enough to make the game a lot more interesting without obfuscating the gameplay. If TH14 ends up taking a similar approach, I will be one happy tengu.
This. Touhou is hard (big surprise, I know), and it really benefits from rewards to entice players to keep playing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 13, 2013, 10:42:32 PM
Not to rain on a parade somewhere, but IN's rewards never had a positive effect on me because it usually meant playing the same game with sometimes slightly different tools. If you happened to find the game boring, the reqs do nothing but tick you off.

Edit: Backtracked here because I'm being silly and objectively wrong. The reqs do show diversity. I think I just don't like IN so much.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 13, 2013, 10:51:30 PM
Yeah, ZUN please give Eientei the chance to shine

He (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Silent_Sinner_in_Blue) already (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate) did (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Inaba_of_the_Moon_and_Inaba_of_the_Earth).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: Trim Sponsor on May 13, 2013, 11:17:40 PM
- The name of the game, my god how horrible.

Gotta agree with you there, Touhou always had a thing with badass names, this ain't one.  :blush:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 13, 2013, 11:24:45 PM
Gotta agree with you there, Touhou always had a thing with badass names, this ain't one.  :blush:

Says you. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Avakyon on May 13, 2013, 11:52:50 PM
Saying the name is silly is also very silly. After you say it to yourself enough times it will normalise itself, although, if you know what double dealing is it shouldn't seem weird at all in the first place.

And I'm not too sure about the badassery of Undefined Fantasic Object. I remember a lot of people laughing at that name for a little while but even they must have gotten over it after a while.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 14, 2013, 12:03:56 AM
Nope. Still think UFO's a dumb name.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Suikama on May 14, 2013, 12:04:50 AM
embodiment of scarlet devil
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 14, 2013, 12:10:15 AM
"Perfect Cherry Blossom" does not exactly inspire a surge of testosterone either, guys. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2013, 12:27:50 AM
The names are great. They're poetic, relate to the story, and - with enough gameplay - can inspire the kind of adrenaline and excitement that forced-macho names try but fail to achieve.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 14, 2013, 12:42:24 AM
The names are great. They're poetic, relate to the story, and - with enough gameplay - can inspire the kind of adrenaline and excitement that forced-macho names try but fail to achieve.

Couldn't agree more. I also take into account the Japanese names for the games as well, which some people (not all, though) tend to overlook. Although the translations may not be as poetic as the English names (really, Eastern Scarlet Devil Land? Lacking the Perception of Eastern Natural Laws?), I still think they're important to the titles. Like, I really like SoEW's Japanese title (Record of the Sealing of an Oriental Demon sounds kind of badass, you know?), among others.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: qMyon on May 14, 2013, 12:44:41 AM
Oh, yeah! Finally, something new to play. Wonder what type of creature the last boss is going to be this time.

[In case you didn't notice, I'm basically 4 days late. My newsreading is awful.]
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 14, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
I generally like the titles too. I think I like them because they sound so rough. The words are too long, and don't sounds good together. I dunno, it's hard to explain. I wanna say they have no rhyme but honestly I don't know.

@BT: I get what you're saying though. If you hate the repetitive task the rewards might not entice you to continue doing it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: danyun on May 14, 2013, 02:03:38 AM
I've got a theory.

If you look at Marisa's weapon select, you see a very silly warped shadow.
The main title screen has a mirror with Reimu's reflection on it.
Plus, the title of the game, Double Dealing Character.
Might be stretching it, but there are stages over the water, and, you know, you can see your reflection in the water.

This could all be representing some sort of, like, Shadow-Reimu, Dark-Reimu, whatever you want to call it. Their dark-version selves would be the ones causing their weapons to malfunction. This would be very interesting, as Sakuya was chosen to be a playable character again. Sakuya, who has a rather shady past. Well, actually, I don't think anything (or at least not that much) of her past has been mentioned at all. So it is possible that this game could reveal some of Sakuya's past or secrets.

Reimu actually doesn't have much of past either (unless you count just fighting Yokai), and neither does Marisa.

So, in this game, is it is possible we are going to be able to find more about these characters.


Of course, this is mostly just wild guessing, especially the part about the character's past, but again this is just a theory. A stretched theory, but a theory.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sagus on May 14, 2013, 02:15:06 AM
she's supposedly prone to absent-mindedness, which doesn't really show much, so she's kinda boring).
She opened a window while in space. Just imagine the kind of stuff she pulls at home.

I wonder if the "different weapons" represent entirely different acessories (Marisa could have a the Hakero, a wand and... somthing else) or if they are just different magical stuff coming out of their regular weapons.

Also, could be cool if the last boss was different for each girl; as in, the girls weapons would have each been possessed by a different youkai, and the last boss would be the youkai that's possessing the player character's weapon. Alternatively, the 5th stage would be the youkai possessing the weapon, and the 6th stage would be the three youkai together. With them also being responsible for starting the "youkai rebellion".

Or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Piranha on May 14, 2013, 06:06:18 AM
I wonder if the "different weapons" represent entirely different acessories (Marisa could have a the Hakero, a wand and... somthing else) or if they are just different magical stuff coming out of their regular weapons.

Also, could be cool if the last boss was different for each girl; as in, the girls weapons would have each been possessed by a different youkai, and the last boss would be the youkai that's possessing the player character's weapon. Alternatively, the 5th stage would be the youkai possessing the weapon, and the 6th stage would be the three youkai together. With them also being responsible for starting the "youkai rebellion".

Or something.

Well, "Youkai Rebellion" sounds like Mamizou to me, with her stage title, and how she appears in FS, aggregating the tsukomogami.
Also Mamizou's little hint about the sea at the end of Reimu's Extra. And then you have a lake in the screenshots.
So, Mamizou might very well have a hand in these incident (or someone from where she came from).
Just a thought.

EDIT:
The hint about the sea was part of a common saying, apparently.
Oh, ok, didn't know that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 14, 2013, 06:22:09 AM
Also Mamizou's little hint about the sea at the end of Reimu's Extra.
The hint about the sea was part of a common saying, apparently.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: shadowbringer on May 14, 2013, 07:07:10 AM
I was reminded today of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJSUQ9M4aRI) (on nicovideo, though, not on youtube), what I can say is...

The wheel of fate is turning

Rebel 1
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: lightdreamer on May 14, 2013, 07:24:25 AM
Meh, I don't think Touhou titles are that great. They're bordering on pretentious sometimes, IMHO.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 14, 2013, 08:14:12 AM
@BT: I get what you're saying though. If you hate the repetitive task the rewards might not entice you to continue doing it.
That's obvious, though.

Though if you're someone like me you're often faced with the question of "why the hell aren't all these spells / characters unlocked to begin with", to which you get "play rest of game again pls". I don't deny the advantages of having unlockables but still. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 14, 2013, 08:20:11 AM
One thing about the SDM cast is that the SDM is huge. Out of all the "organizations" in Touhou, the SDM has the most named characters, an unnamed one, and a whole slew of generic employees. This gives the fandom a LOT to work with.  Between Remilia, Sakuya, Meiling, Patchouli, and Flandre, you pretty much have everything you need for a full cast, with enough range of personality, abilities, and even weaknesses to apply it to almost any plot you can think of, as well as a high chance of at least some of those personalities (be they the fandom version or the canon version) appealing to you. And any hole that's missing can be filled up with blank-slate Koakuma.

Their relationships TO each other are defined, too. We're not completely sure how Ichirin, Shou, and Muramasa interact with each other, but we do know that Remilia is everyones' boss, Flandre is Remilia's younger sister, Meiling works under Sakuya, Sakuya and Meiling and Koakuma work under Patchouli, etc. These relationships are defined just enough for people to have hooks to latch onto without being so restrictive that you have no freedom to play with. Or even if you don't make doujin and fanfic and fan-made stories, someone who simply likes following Touhou just for its canon plot will likely appreciate the fact that these characters have a generally defined canonical relationship to each other.

Actually, IMHO that's kinda a big failing of the characters from UFO and TD, in that we don't know much about how they interact with each other (heck, Seiga is practically the opposite of interacting with the rest of her group, if she's even still a part of it). Meanwhile, MoF and SA suffer from overly small related casts (MoF just has Suwako + Sanae + Kanako for 3, and in SA only the Satori sisters and their two pets are really related to each other).

Even their home is the most developed building in all of Touhou. It has a library, a basement, a bell tower, a garden, a gate, is ridiculously large on the inside with lots of dark corners per Perfect Memento, is near/on a lake, etc.  Again, just like the SDM cast, you pretty much can do almost anything with this setting alone, too.

They also seem to have a good deal of interactions outside the SDM, too. Although the fact that the entire friggin' SDM named cast besides Flandre have been in the previous two fighting games helped that.
Wouldn't that just mean that the doujin community isn't all that creative? I mean, if a cast is lacking characters, the creator of the story could always fill in or write his own character. There is enough material to work with as long as one doesn't go overboard. A character could be a random fairy or a youkai, that wasn't used yet. Or maybe another youkai of the same kind that is already known (another kappa / tengu), it could be a ghost and or a character from the outside world, maybe someone from the past (most of TDs cast is compromised of characters from the past), etc.


Saying the name is silly is also very silly. After you say it to yourself enough times it will normalise itself, although, if you know what double dealing is it shouldn't seem weird at all in the first place.

And I'm not too sure about the badassery of Undefined Fantasic Object. I remember a lot of people laughing at that name for a little while but even they must have gotten over it after a while.
Nope. Still think UFO's a dumb name.
In my opinion a title just has two functions:
1) To hint at a theme, important plot part or a central idea of a story / article / video game / movie / picture
2) To make it possible to distinguish this work from another

As such the names of Touhou games are fulfilling their purpose in my opinion. The idea that a name or title has to be cool, edgy or badass is already pretty silly and comes from our modern media that is strongly compromised of advertisements and hyperboles. Abandoning all titles and names that are not badass enough would be as silly as abandoning a part of language or neglecting it because it doesn't sound cool enough. That is not what it exists for or was made for. It exists so we can describe everything, so if someone is only picking the "badass" words out of a language all the time then he us misusing language severe and has not really understood its purpose.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2013, 09:09:51 AM
One thing about the SDM cast is that the SDM is huge. Out of all the "organizations" in Touhou, the SDM has the most named characters, an unnamed one, and a whole slew of generic employees. This gives the fandom a LOT to work with.
The Myouren crew has more named characters, actually.

SDM: Remilia, Flandre, Sakuya, Meiling, Patchouli
Myouren: Byakuren, Shou, Nazrin, Ichirin, Unzan, Nue, Minamitsu, Kyouko, Mamizou
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2013, 09:25:27 AM
Meh, I don't think Touhou titles are that great. They're bordering on pretentious sometimes, IMHO.

Huh, that's interesting. Pretentious, how? What are they pretending to be?

The idea that a name or title has to be cool, edgy or badass is already pretty silly and comes from our modern media that is strongly compromised of advertisements and hyperboles.

Case in point: "Melty Blood". First, "melty" ain't even a word. Second, it tries to sound badass and ends up sounding pretty silly.

"Double Dealing Character" is a little clumsy, but likely references the whole story of the game. And, as we've totally established, ZUN's anxieties about marriage and growing older.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 14, 2013, 09:55:18 AM
Case in point: "Melty Blood". First, "melty" ain't even a word. Second, it tries to sound badass and ends up sounding pretty silly.

"Double Dealing Character" is a little clumsy, but likely references the whole story of the game. And, as we've totally established, ZUN's anxieties about marriage and growing older.
ZUN's anxiety, of course. But is Melty Blood even a title made by ZUN or is it a translation? Is it even a game made by ZUN? D:
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2013, 10:10:15 AM
AFAIK, no, he wasn't involved with Melty Blood. Just an example of a trying-to-be-badass name that falls flat.
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 14, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
AFAIK, no, he wasn't involved with Melty Blood. Just an example of a trying-to-be-badass name that falls flat.
I'm so dumb.^^ Sorry.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 14, 2013, 01:27:36 PM
My god, I just caught up.

> Sakuya
> Badass Shot Types
> No more crazy gimmicks
> No more TD life system

...Are you all trying to make me cry? WAS THAT YOUR INTENTION!?

brb sobbing joyfully in a corner.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 14, 2013, 01:43:02 PM
> Badass Shot Types
So, that hasn't been confirmed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 14, 2013, 01:46:05 PM
So, that hasn't been confirmed.

There's a flamethrower and a dark spark. And Sakuya uses cards as options.

I'm incredibly easy to hype.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: N-Forza on May 14, 2013, 03:15:49 PM
> No more TD life system
Do you mean the Overdrive system or the extra life fragments? Because I'm pretty sure I saw life pieces in the sidebar.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 14, 2013, 03:21:48 PM
Do you mean the Overdrive system or the extra life fragments? Because I'm pretty sure I saw life pieces in the sidebar.

Me too. You can see it on the second screenshot, about Marisa's flamethrower.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 14, 2013, 04:13:12 PM
> No more TD life system
What do people have against this system? You still gain life at the same rate as before.
In EoSD, PCB, and IN you technically have several hundred fragments to collect per life. Hurr.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 14, 2013, 04:39:18 PM
What do people have against this system? You still gain life at the same rate as before.

No, you're getting them at a constantly slowing rate, and end up having less of them in the end. Maxing out is impossible, unlike any other games. True, that Trance thing can help with survival too, but the fact alone rubs some people the wrong way.

I have a suspicion we're back to SA system, but we can be sure only after we get the demo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 14, 2013, 04:56:22 PM
Quote
No, you're getting them at a constantly slowing rate
This happens in the three games I mentioned too.
Quote
and end up having less of them in the end. Maxing out is impossible
This shouldn't be an issue. CAVE games are a quadrillion times harder and they only give you 5-6 per run.
Quote
I have a suspicion we're back to SA system, but we can be sure only after we get the demo.
Whatever it is I hope it isn't something retarded like "lol don't die to gain lives".

Just heads up in advance. We prefer not to see CAVE vs Touhou comparisons. Because they are tiresome. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6261.msg466692.html#msg466692). --Hele
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 14, 2013, 06:06:49 PM
This happens in the three games I mentioned too.

Not nearly as pronounced. You tend to get more points/point items in later stages, so it's justified there. And they have EXTEND items too.

This shouldn't be an issue. CAVE games are a quadrillion times harder and they only give you 5-6 per run.

Well, they are CAVE games, after all. And even though a perfect run in a Touhou game would be a no-miss one, there are a lot of players who can't do that and to whom lives matter a lot.

Whatever it is I hope it isn't something retarded like "lol don't die to gain lives".

Heh, that game IS hell in all aspects.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2013, 06:09:37 PM
No, you're getting them at a constantly slowing rate, and end up having less of them in the end. Maxing out is impossible, unlike any other games.

This. Tired of being parsed out these itty bitty fragments here and there over long stretches of time. ZUN'a allusion to a "back to basics" philosophy makes me pretty hopeful.

Quote
Just heads up in advance. We prefer not to see CAVE vs Touhou comparisons. Because they are tiresome. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6261.msg466692.html#msg466692). --Hele

Seconding this. I know this endless pissing contest is great fun on other forums, but we're all out of Care for this debate here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zengeku on May 14, 2013, 07:19:53 PM
No, you're getting them at a constantly slowing rate, and end up having less of them in the end. Maxing out is impossible, unlike any other games. True, that Trance thing can help with survival too, but the fact alone rubs some people the wrong way.

Die less, problem solved. If getting max lives offers you some sort of psychological effect, then make 5 lives the cap. Problem fixed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sakurei on May 14, 2013, 07:30:47 PM
okay, instead of cave vs touhou how about touhou vs touhou? PoDD is significantly harder with any shottype and still only gives you 2 extra extends for a grand total of 4 lives you generously may spend through 9 stages.

if you need to max out the life counter to clear the game, you probably either play the wrong difficulty (practice more, dude) or just started out playing touhou altogether.

the whole argument about how many lives you can get is dumb as fuck. touhou only has 6 stages regular, everything over 5 extends (plus inital lives) is generous, to be honest
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 14, 2013, 08:20:02 PM
Personally I like the complicated systems, though I can understand why others wouldn't.

What makes considerably less sense, however, is complaining about the maximum amount of lives you can actually get. You're not entitled to a certain number of them. Saying the game should give you more lives is practically the same as saying the game should be outright easier, which doesn't make much sense considering the game in question already gives you four different difficulty levels, one of which should be beatable by just about anyone on the planet.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: I have no name on May 14, 2013, 08:22:19 PM
complaining about the maximum amount of lives you can actually get. You're not entitled to a certain number of them.
It's a different kind of difficulty, one that I find considerably less enjoyable.  You take what you get though and do what you can with it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 14, 2013, 08:26:59 PM
"Die less", "practice more". Geez, easy for you to say. Just give me a few years and I'll catch up with you.

However, to be honest, I AM a relatively new player who only recently started feeling comfortable on Normal and stopped being afraid of entering Lunatic. And I have to say that my performance in TD isn't any worse than in any other Touhou game. It IS quite balanced with its resources, and if you use them properly the game isn't much more trouble than any other. While ZUN actually intended to show the value of lives in this way, and I take the lesson as it's supposed to be, there are still other people who are thrown off by that. Show some compassion to those poor souls who can't bomb in time to save themselves, will ya?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 14, 2013, 08:50:48 PM
I'm a pretty bad player, so more lives forgives more. Makes each silly mistake less frustrating. (TD to me was "Oh hey I ran into this bullet, I lost one of the 5 lives I'll ever get!")

But the number and the pieces thing isn't even what I disliked. They make the game more challenging, so whatever. No, what I loathed with my entire being, what I had hatred for beyond all bounds, was HOW you collected the pieces. EoSD, PCB, IN? Yeah, thousands of pieces you can autocollect or grab as they fall down. 80% of my deaths in TD are made by me trying to grab the sacred lives pieces the games gives you only every once in a while before getting rammed in by a fairy since the damned pieces end up at the top of the freaking screen.

And that's just my personal opinion because I just so happen to stick in the lower half of the screen most of the time. I'm not saying it's something no one should like; I'm saying I personally hated it with all my being and that I'm glad to have it disappear.

Side note, if you're gonna use the "Yeah but UFO had bouncing UFOs" argument, know that I loathed those as well. Much less, but still quite a bit.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: crotchpuncha on May 14, 2013, 08:59:01 PM
I just like getting lives through points, and 1ups. Having to collect 4 of a specific drop to get extra lives is annoying. *shrug* I don't hate it, I just don't think it's a particularly good system.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 14, 2013, 09:05:47 PM
80% of my deaths in TD are made by me trying to grab the sacred lives pieces the games gives you only every once in a while before getting rammed in by a fairy since the damned pieces end up at the top of the freaking screen.

And that's just my personal opinion because I just so happen to stick in the lower half of the screen most of the time. I'm not saying it's something no one should like; I'm saying I personally hated it with all my being and that I'm glad to have it disappear.

I disliked the "collecting life pieces" thing. SA's collecting life pieces system (after nonspells/spells) was okay, collecting UFO's was boring, but the divine spirits thing was ughh. Like you say, when I attempt to 1CC, I try to pick up one of that pink/green divine spirits, one of that fairies decides it's the best time to use Tackle, and it's supah effective.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 14, 2013, 09:08:37 PM
I agree. Essentially, the whole concept of the lives mechanics of UFO and TD meant going out of your way to collect things, which other games didn't really had you do. It was either a score thing, a point item thing, or a survival thing (by that I mean SA). UFO was a big offender when it came to that, but TD also falls under that category. Even if TD is easier than UFO and SA, I haven't 1cced it on Hard because I can generally get through by tanking the harder sections, but in TD I can't do that... which is problematic when the spells get to the point where I can't always get through them, so... yeah.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Critz on May 14, 2013, 09:09:07 PM
I think that's more of a psychological sense of safety... or something. UFO showers you with extend to the point you can reach the cap by Ichirin, then proceeds to strip you from them all the way to Byakuren, where you have a few of them left. Which is propably why one or two lossy deaths on stage 5 don't hurt as much, especially since you get 2 bombs per life and can't lose more than two.

Contrast SA, where you get much less extends, shot types and bombs are relatively horrible, bombs are tied to power so you weaken yourself with bombing and you're deprived of extends if you die on spell cards. That, and if you have more than 3 lives and die on the boss, you have only 2 power and thus 2 bad bombs till the next death... unless you make it to the next stage with low power, in which case you get the chance to recover power and squeeze so much more from the current life.

It's just the matter of psychological pressure and the constant awareness than one bad death can start a domino effect of deaths and cost you a run, plus you're encouraged to risk up to 4 and potentially more bombs if you want to do decent damage to bosses. To me, Koishi's patterns felt doable, but the clear seemed completely impossible at first because there was simply no resources to do so. UFO's much more forgiving in that matter, as it feels you have to constantly play well as opposed to avoid fatal mistakes at wrong points (the cruel trick with S4 midboss Nue drop nonwithstanding).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 14, 2013, 09:12:20 PM
Pardon me for not being sure because I haven't thought to check for the function in years, but does ZUN still let the player set their starting number of lives in the option menu?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 14, 2013, 09:13:12 PM
Pardon me for not being sure because I haven't thought to check for the function in years, but does ZUN still let the player set their starting number of lives in the option menu?

MoF onwards, no.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 14, 2013, 09:16:40 PM
Show some compassion to those poor souls who can't bomb in time to save themselves, will ya?
Well, I'll agree with you that Zengeku and Sakurei are a bit off the mark, as what they're saying is essentially that you should just be good enough to clear the game without more lives, which of course isn't really true.

My own point is that the number of lives you are given barely has any effect on the actual gameplay. You'll be doing the same things anyway, at least for the purposes of a simple survival run. You're dodging the same attacks, handling situations the same way. Simply having more lives in stock isn't going to make the game any more fun in and of itself. It only effects how many mistakes the game will tolerate before giving you a game over screen, but then you can just continue immediately so that hardly matters either. (Granted, continues work differently in SA and UFO, but this is TD were talking about.)

Anyone who plays the game seriously enough to be involved in this kind of argument should realize the purpose of the games is not to simply "beat" them. They're not RPG's. You're not "supposed" to win. Nobody just plays through the games once then never touches them again. The attraction is the gameplay itself, and the number of lives you get is not preventing you from playing in any way shape or form. It's just telling you the number of times you can die without getting the "bad ending." And this is why it bothers me when people say a game isn't fun because it doesn't give you enough lives, or if they call it "artificial difficulty." Wanting more lives isn't wanting anything that effects gameplay, it's wanting the game to be easier to beat.

(And I'm not trying to accuse you C.Angel, or anyone else here of anything particularly egregious. I'm just blithering in general now. Also a million people posted while I was writing this but I'm posting it anyway.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 14, 2013, 09:43:50 PM
Nobody just plays through the games once then never touches them again.
Actually, this applies to me. The only game I have beaten on lunatic (and bothered beating) was IN. I tried Hard for TD. I have beaten pretty much all games either in Easy or Normal and basically never touched them again nor have any personal reason to do so.

The attraction is the gameplay itself,
And this is pretty much applicable to any game you're playing, not just Touhou. If a game isn't cunning and attractive, one will not bother replaying it in a different style.

and the number of lives you get is not preventing you from playing in any way shape or form. It's just telling you the number of times you can die without getting the "bad ending." And this is why it bothers me when people say a game isn't fun because it doesn't give you enough lives, or if they call it "artificial difficulty." Wanting more lives isn't wanting anything that effects gameplay, it's wanting the game to be easier to beat.
I do have to agree with this partially.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 14, 2013, 09:49:21 PM
Zil, thank you for a level-headed response.

I admit it's true that the problem some people have with TD's lives is psychological if anything. It's irksome to know that the only time you'll see all 8 spare lives icons lighted up is in stage practice. So is having to meet some outrageous number of pieces to get an extend, especially the one you know you won't get by the end. But the worst is getting far and having to continue, and extend requirement stays the same. Honestly, no other game taunts you that much. Of course, the key is to learn not to think like that, but until then it's annoying.

Also, while Touhou games certainly aren't the ones you should try to "beat", and going for no-miss and/or scoring is the next goal one should strive for, 1cc is still an important stepping stone, the inevitable first goal everyone strives for. And it's this first goal that colors the whole experience with the game. How fast it's possible to accomplish and how "fair" is the challenge - those are what creates the game's reputation. And while definition of "fair" may be subjective, it's still important for how a player views the game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 14, 2013, 10:06:51 PM
Also, while Touhou games certainly aren't the ones you should try to "beat", and going for no-miss and/or scoring is the next goal one should strive for, 1cc is still an important stepping stone, the inevitable first goal everyone strives for. And it's this first goal that colors the whole experience with the game. How fast it's possible to accomplish and how "fair" is the challenge - those are what creates the game's reputation. And while definition of "fair" may be subjective, it's still important for how a player views the game.

I agree with that. I've never really considered 1ccing a Touhou game to be "beating" it. I've always kept trying new difficulties and, in recent times, challenge runs. I mean, I guess you could say you can "beat" the game if you do everything there is to do, but is that really "beating" it? There's scoring challenges and survival challenges to try out, as well as other crazy stuff like 90 FPS runs. But of course, if a player gets frustrated with the game from the get go because of the game mechanics, then it kind of makes that experience impossible. It's why I'm not really going to be trying for harder runs in UFO or TD.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 14, 2013, 10:12:20 PM
It's irksome to know that the only time you'll see all 8 spare lives icons lighted up is in stage practice.
Are you sure? (http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee487/KarisaMirisame/1211302142.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zengeku on May 14, 2013, 10:24:11 PM
Well, I'll agree with you that Zengeku and Sakurei are a bit off the mark, as what they're saying is essentially that you should just be good enough to clear the game without more lives, which of course isn't really true.

I meant that you should seek to BECOME good enough to do it. Memorization, practice, planning. All tools there for you to use if you need them. Of course, this is just my biased viewpoint. I've been here a long time and I know how stuff works. It just irks me when I see people complaining about not having tons of lives and such.

I didn't mean to be rude towards C.Angel, I just wanted to poke him into learning how to make do with less amounts of resources as that'll make him a better player overall. I'm sorry if it came out insentitive. It happens and I apologize.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 14, 2013, 10:32:47 PM
Are you sure? (http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee487/KarisaMirisame/1211302142.png)
woah :o
I agree with that. I've never really considered 1ccing a Touhou game to be "beating" it. I've always kept trying new difficulties and, in recent times, challenge runs. I mean, I guess you could say you can "beat" the game if you do everything there is to do, but is that really "beating" it? There's scoring challenges and survival challenges to try out, as well as other crazy stuff like 90 FPS runs. But of course, if a player gets frustrated with the game from the get go because of the game mechanics, then it kind of makes that experience impossible. It's why I'm not really going to be trying for harder runs in UFO or TD.
I guess it really just boils down to one's perspective of the game. Some people may still view video games as beating the main story and it ends there. Others may strive for the 1cc in order for them to consider the game "done". Then there's those others who may not be able to let the game go until the 100%; all is seen, said and done. Essentially, a game is only done when you feel you finished it.

Thats just my take on it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Limian on May 14, 2013, 10:37:54 PM
Contrast SA, where you get much less extends
For what it's worth, unless you time out a pattern or let the life piece drop offscreen, you get at least 8 extends, which is the third highest amount after PCB and UFO.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 14, 2013, 10:51:21 PM
Eh, I'm someone who tries to 1cc on Normal. If I accomplish that, I try again on another character, to get all the endings. That's why I play. I've dabbled in trying to clear Extra or Hard but have never succeeded and don't have much motivation to try. Anyway, I can say I've cleared every Windows game on Normal, with maybe half the shot types. I think I can honestly say I'm not very good.

Maybe it's because I'm not too good though that I find most of my pleasure from the act of trying. Dodging things, capturing spellcards, conserving bombs, whatever, all this stuff is enjoyable, but mostly because I need to get better at them to clear the game. It's a means to an end. And quite frankly I think of it as a resource game, first and foremost. "Never dying" is cool and all, but I have not once made that my goal. My goal is to beat the game, not to dodge everything. And, from experience, learning patterns and memorizing fairy spawn locations is almost completely irrelevant compared to conserving resources. I usually don't bomb as an emergency lifesaver, because honestly I don't trust my reflexes enough for that. I bomb when I think I might be in danger in the future. When I encounter a pattern that I think I won't be able to dodge. I give up before I try and just bomb it. Because that's the safest way to play, for me.

So, all that said, I think the number of lives available is a very important aspect of the gameplay. It tells me what I can expect and what I have to do to win. It's part of the gameplay balance just as much as the patterns themselves. And I loathed TD. Seriously, I hated that game when I played it. The lack of lives and the stupid Trance system that punished you for dying by making it harder to collect lives... I hated it all of it. The life system was so bad that it also made me hate the music and the spellcards, something I usually love and the main reason I play the games. Maybe you can try to convince me that I'm "playing it wrong" but having very few lives and having to do stupid things to collect them made the entire game less fun. Maybe if you're actually an expert or someone playing for score you can just think "how can I dodge everything?" and decide that the number of lives is irrelevant, but aren't you the one who's actually ignoring a huge part of the gameplay? You're supposed to die. You're supposed to bomb. Dodging everything, while maybe the ideal you strive for, is actually playing the game wrong. In a certain sense.

On the other hand, I absolutely loved SA, which everyone else seems to be lumping with TD in "cruel gameplay systems". It's by far my favorite game in the series, and I love the life mechanic. The best part is that it never encourages you to risk your life to get more lives, something that was a huge flaw in both UFO and TD. Safe, cautious, conservative play becomes a self-reinforcing cycle.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: XephyrEnigma on May 14, 2013, 11:03:42 PM
Are you sure? (http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee487/KarisaMirisame/1211302142.png)

I'd like to add that you probably wont be seeing this on normal or lower as it's known that Hard and Lunatic give you more spirits to collect in general.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Captain Vulcan on May 14, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
With Touhou 13.5 and 14 on the horizon, I can't help but to notice how TD is taking a beating. I had no idea that TD was disliked so much until recently (I understand, though). Honestly, I thought it was a pretty decent game.

On the other hand, TD introduced Seiga. She's one of the most interesting characters in the entire Touhou mythos to me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 15, 2013, 12:07:33 AM
I'd like to add that you probably wont be seeing this on normal or lower as it's known that Hard and Lunatic give you more spirits to collect in general.
I know. It took a lot of effort to develop a route for this, which involves spending nearly all of the bombs available (and in contrast to lives, TD gives you a lot of bombs, possibly the most outside of MoF/SA) to refill trance. Reaching the 20 extend is probably possible on lower difficulties by making use of deathtrances, but I don't think there are enough spirits to do it without dying. (Perhaps with TAS to stay in front of bosses all the time? I don't know.) Still, although impractical, reaching 8 lives outside of stage practice is not impossible.

My preferred life system would probably be MS/PCB by the way. Collecting point items is simple enough compared to some of the recent life systems, but you can still gain an extra life or two beyond average with additional effort (or a few planned bombs in PCB's case), in contrast to EoSD/MoF/IN/LLS where there's a limited number of extends and you're practically guaranteed to reach all of them in a 1cc. PCB could afford to not give quite as many lives though, with its border system.

As for Touhou 14's system? My prediction is that it'll be like SA's system, but with one life part after every spell like in TD (not nonspells), and 3 parts per life like in the screenshot. It would qualify as simpler mechanics, and give a pretty average number of lives overall since each Touhou game has around 23-28 spells (excluding IN last spells and EoSD Easy).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 15, 2013, 10:41:20 AM
Actually, I never found TD that bad in terms of lives, but UFO is the worst offender in my book. All those damn UFOs flying off with your lives when you aren't quick enough and sometimes you don't even get the right UFO because you are also dodging all those bullets. It was stressing me out way more than TD where you just have to bomb / be quick / use trance at the right moments and it's usually indicated when life fairies spawn (often right after bomb fairies when you kill them quickly).


As for "beating a game", I always try to get it 1cc in normal, then I put away for some time, then I try hard. Until this day there is only title I managed in hard though and that was IN in a rather shameful "bombing-through-everything" run. I don't do most of the self-imposed challenges because I know I wouldn't get them right. Even if I know a pattern well, there is a chance I will mess up eventually.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 15, 2013, 10:42:32 AM
"Die less" isn't really meant to be advice, of course. It's unhelpful and kind of condescending in its obviousness. I mean, it's not like it never occurred to anyone to try not to die in order to get better at the games. "Die less" is rather meant to underscore that however poor the resources, there are still ways to clear the game. Spellcard Practice makes this a bit easier, too.

Zil makes an excellent point that it's the re-playability of the games that can make resources desirable. To be able to come back to a game because there are multiple paths you can take; that you don't need to plan the one perfect path through the game on account of a dearth of resources. Sure, there's score-running, but not everyone's playing like that, and it's not like there's only one "correct" approach to these games. That's something a lot of people forget in discussions about game resources.

If TH14's system is simplified, this isn't just better for mid-tier players. This also gives any player more freedom to take more paths through the game. Usually.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 15, 2013, 04:58:11 PM
I didn't mean to be rude towards C.Angel, I just wanted to poke him into learning how to make do with less amounts of resources as that'll make him a better player overall. I'm sorry if it came out insentitive. It happens and I apologize.

It's alright, no offence taken. I know how to become better, but it's still a long road to go, and such things matter a lot until the moment I get there.

You're supposed to die. You're supposed to bomb. Dodging everything, while maybe the ideal you strive for, is actually playing the game wrong. In a certain sense.

Now that's just another extreme. One that will block you from becoming better. It is indeed possible to dodge everything thrown at you with enough experience. If you don't see how something can be done, it only means you don't know or understand something. There are barriers in the way you see the game that must be overcome to move past a certain point. Ones that must be shattered by taking more risk than you ever did. And you'll be amazed when you can freely do something you'd deem impossible before. I know it, I've been there.

I was aware such clashes were inevitable ever since I started to take a serious interest in shmups. I just want both kinds of people to understand the other. Even masters started out from zero, and out of those who are still inexperienced now, new masters may appear, but they need to build up that experience. At the same time, even if you don't think you're a good player, you can become much better than you are, even to the level you'd consider crazy. Getting better with each run is a thing, but sometimes you have to throw common sense out of the window to discover something new and exciting in the way the game can be played.

So let's wait for the demo warmly until it is ready.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: TheTeff007 on May 15, 2013, 05:05:00 PM
I'm guessing, based on all the screenshots shown so far, that the stage depicted on it is Stage 1 on all 3 screenshots.  I believe that is water what is outside the main road o the Reimu and Sakuya images. Also, both the score and lives counter are not too high.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 16, 2013, 04:41:14 AM
The demo has gone gold. That's it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 16, 2013, 04:44:07 AM
MAD HYPE MODE ENGAGED.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 16, 2013, 05:03:34 AM
Now that's just another extreme. One that will block you from becoming better. It is indeed possible to dodge everything thrown at you with enough experience. If you don't see how something can be done, it only means you don't know or understand something. There are barriers in the way you see the game that must be overcome to move past a certain point. Ones that must be shattered by taking more risk than you ever did. And you'll be amazed when you can freely do something you'd deem impossible before. I know it, I've been there.

I never said it was impossible, I'm saying it's playing the game wrong. The "game mechanics" of each game tend to revolve around getting bombs and lives. If you never used any of them, then ZUN wasted his time programming them in. Why would he even put any color of UFO than blue in the game? Why did he make purple and green spirits drop some certain fairies? If you never expect to die, then you're already ignoring half of the game. Maybe it's fun anyway and I won't tell you to stop, but you're wasting all of ZUN's hard work like that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Despatche on May 16, 2013, 10:12:17 AM
You are not "supposed" to die or bomb; those things are put in these games so you don't have to be a complete expert to properly beat them (as are difficulties). If you want to talk about playing the game wrong, I can always point out the obvious.

(When you are "supposed" to do such things, it's called bad design.)

(Waiting for the inevitable (and irrelevant) "Do you expect people to dodge everything in Lunatic on their first try?"...)

(Edit: As always, games like Battle Garegga are exceptions. Those games do not conform to the standard known as "dying and bombing is bad". Fun fact: some people will call Garegga and co. bad design anyway.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 16, 2013, 12:51:22 PM
I didn't dislike TD, though. I do hate with all my heart the divine spirit thing, but damn; It introduced way too many new stuff for me to hate it! Kyouko's echo-bullets, Yoshika's self-healing, Seiga's team-tag gimmick (By far my favorite), Tojiko and Futo's thunder-bullets (THEY WIGGLE) and Miko's glorious spells. All of it felt like a fresh new batch of stuff, and that's what I'd love to see in the new game; New gimmicks, new kind of attacks, strategies, anything to make the gameplay more varied than "x colored bullet shot from the boss requires you to move out of the way" for 6 stages.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 16, 2013, 12:57:11 PM
You are not "supposed" to die or bomb; those things are put in these games so you don't have to be a complete expert to properly beat them (as are difficulties). If you want to talk about playing the game wrong, I can always point out the obvious.

(When you are "supposed" to do such things, it's called bad design.)

(Waiting for the inevitable (and irrelevant) "Do you expect people to dodge everything in Lunatic on their first try?"...)
That is true. As a German saying goes "No master has fallen from the sky yet!". Everyone starts out small and with more training gets more on a professional level. That's not different with games.

When I started with Touhou I had serious troubles with easy, then I cleared easy and started training in normal, now I have all games cleared in normal and the next logical step would be hard. From hard to lunatic. From lunatic to extra (sometimes extra is easier than lunatic).
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 16, 2013, 02:58:26 PM
Even more simply, maybe there is no "supposed to" at all, beyond that games are supposed to be fun, and if you have fun, mission accomplished.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 16, 2013, 04:07:01 PM
If you never expect to die, then you're already ignoring half of the game.

I see my point didn't get through. A lot of good things were said here, but here's what I can add.

Saying that playing without using bombs and losing lives is wrong assumes that it is a style of playing you can switch into or out of. But it's not, it's a matter of skill. You're expected to grow your skill as you play, and there is no point to force yourself to play below your skill. Suppose you get good enough to 1cc Lunatic using all bombs and lives you're given. Odds are that if you try Easy at that point, you'll NMNB it without trouble. You haven't suddenly started playing the game wrong, you simply got better. Lives and bombs are there to help you if you can't dodge all the stuff thrown at you, but they aren't obligatory to use, and neither are they completely irrelevant. There are just different skill-based "styles" of playing, and that the game allows for a wide array of differently-skilled people to enjoy it - that is an important thing that Touhou is valued for.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iK on May 16, 2013, 04:19:35 PM
Die less, problem solved. If getting max lives offers you some sort of psychological effect, then make 5 lives the cap. Problem fixed.

High punishment with relatively low difficulty is just a smidgen (ie. a lot) more frustrating game design than having higher actual difficulty that punishes you less.



The low resources in TD in particular remind me of Kid Icarus (NES): Not all that difficult, but single mistakes result in disproportionate punishment and you have to start all over. Difficulty should come with learning, not inherit frustration. It's easy to say to someone coming into the series at the twelfth installment "just learn the patterns and stream the easy ones, TD is easy modo for babbies," the learning process isn't the same.

I honestly find the games like PCB easier than TD since there is more of a chance to actually learn latter stages more readily, even if it means going through resources early: The first stages are incredibly easy to learn, so being able to experience the harder ones even without the resources gives more of a chance to learn their intricacies.

Compare to say, getting to Tojiko with a single life and bomb and having that one chance to get a glimpse at the lightning bolts before getting mindscrewed by them.

There's also   huge differences between the classic 1up system and the fragment system. You don't lose a chance to get a vital life by missing a single point item, and full 1up drops are a thing. Compare to "Oh no noo, dense bullets blocking one of the few portions of a life I'll ever see."
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zengeku on May 16, 2013, 04:30:12 PM
High punishment with relatively low difficulty is just a smidgen (ie. a lot) more frustrating game design than having higher actual difficulty that punishes you less.

Doesn't have to be that way. You could easily have UFO tier pattern difficulty (or higher) while still just giving you only 5 lives. Upon some more reflection, I guess I don't care if it's gonna be another 12 lives game. It's up to the player to decide what kind of clear is satisfying to them. Veterans can go for low-miss clears and pretend it's an arcade game while a newer player can just be satisfied with simply winning. Everyone's happy i guess. Just have the bullet patterns be up to scratch please :3 - Seriously, if they aren't I'm gonna be sad  :(
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 16, 2013, 11:49:24 PM
There's also   huge differences between the classic 1up system and the fragment system. You don't lose a chance to get a vital life by missing a single point item, and full 1up drops are a thing. Compare to "Oh no noo, dense bullets blocking one of the few portions of a life I'll ever see."
Shouldn't that not be an issue after you've played each stage a few times in stage practice? I recall most of the pink spirits being trivial to collect (a notable exception being the four before Miko), in contrast with, say, point items in PCB stages (some PCB 1ccs don't even reach 1000 point items, much less 1200, while in TD, the 18 extend is the only one that really matters since the 15 is near-guaranteed and the 20 is near-impossible). I think TD lives are just valued more since there are fewer of them (which makes sense).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 17, 2013, 12:56:47 AM
I honestly find the games like PCB easier than TD since there is more of a chance to actually learn latter stages more readily, even if it means going through resources early: The first stages are incredibly easy to learn, so being able to experience the harder ones even without the resources gives more of a chance to learn their intricacies.

Compare to say, getting to Tojiko with a single life and bomb and having that one chance to get a glimpse at the lightning bolts before getting mindscrewed by them.
You can use continues / stage practice.

Also, what Karisa said. Those fragments will be in the same places every time, and you're usually invincible while collecting them anyway.

Maybe if you're actually an expert or someone playing for score you can just think "how can I dodge everything?" and decide that the number of lives is irrelevant, but aren't you the one who's actually ignoring a huge part of the gameplay? You're supposed to die. You're supposed to bomb. Dodging everything, while maybe the ideal you strive for, is actually playing the game wrong. In a certain sense.
Since I feel like you're responding to what I said, I want you to know that that wasn't my point. I'm not saying the number of lives doesn't matter because you don't need them. If you're going to bomb or die to a certain pattern, then you're probably going to do so regardless of how many lives you have. I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is. It seems like you're saying you dislike TD because you can't fail as many spells, which is: 1) silly, and 2) false. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB99lrfLRwE)

So again, my point is that this is essentially complaining about the game being harder than you want it to be, and not only that, but it's one of the most nonsensical ways you can make that complaint. You're not saying Pattern X is unbalanced, or that Spell Y is humanly impossible, or Shot Z doesn't do enough damage, all of which would be valid. You're saying that the game doesn't allow enough mistakes on your part. That it "should" be easier than it is, in the most trivial of ways. You have every right to find the game difficult. That's all subjective and whatever. But you can't say the game is poorly designed because it doesn't allow enough mistakes, especially when you can simply continue on with the game immediately after dying. ZUN has an obligation to make the game playable, and he does that very well, but he's not obligated to make the game easy (which he does anyway by creating a spectrum of difficulties).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iK on May 17, 2013, 03:58:53 AM
Isn't the game allowing just one mistake "too much"? Because if that is not the case, then the statements "You have every right to find the game difficult. That's all subjective and whatever," and "But you can't say the game is poorly designed because it doesn't allow enough mistakes, especially when you can simply continue on with the game immediately after dying," are in contrast with one another. Whether something is poor game design is also subjective.

Besides which, who are you to say what is and isn't a valid complaint with a game's direction? It is not like the point isn't being articulated upon or is as vague as complaints like "This game just doesn't have good immersion" are.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 17, 2013, 05:30:09 AM
I am very disappoint at all of the disparaging comments about the UFO system. I will fight you people.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 17, 2013, 05:50:38 AM
Whether something is poor game design is also subjective.
Well, yes, but practically everything is subjective to some degree. Some things more than others. The extent to which a person finds a game difficult depends on so many things specific to that person. Some people can beat the game with ease, others couldn't even if their lives depended on it. So I write that off as something that's not worth arguing about. I think something like game design can have a much more constructive conversation around it though (which is why I'm trying to talk about it now). Maybe I should have said "too subjective," so as not to seemingly imply that everything else I'm talking about is completely set in stone, but that's hair splitting.

I don't think adding in extra lives is a good way to balance a game, (especially not when the scoring system revolves around suiciding). It allows the player to bypass segments of the game without actually playing them, and removes the player from the game. It's ironic that people often complain about TD giving too few resources, since it is in fact their over-abundance (along with the fact that you are directly rewarded for spending them) that breaks the game's scoring system, and the gameplay is often summarized as "XXCXXC."
It is not like the point isn't being articulated upon
All I see so far is this,
High punishment with relatively low difficulty is just a smidgen (ie. a lot) more frustrating game design than having higher actual difficulty that punishes you less.

The low resources in TD in particular remind me of Kid Icarus (NES): Not all that difficult, but single mistakes result in disproportionate punishment and you have to start all over.
and I have to disagree. I don't think it's nearly as fun to cruise through a game by spending resources. Everything you bombed is something you didn't get to play against. Sure, the secret to beating Touhou games is to bomb the crap out of them, but that's not the fun way to play them, and the game shouldn't require it. To the contrary, I think the game should encourage the player to learn the patterns, and depend on their own skills to get through. Additional resources make a game easier by nullifying chunks of it, not truly making them easier but removing them completely.

Everything Clarste said was a complaint about the mechanics rather than the number of lives or a strange misinterpretation of what I said earlier.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 17, 2013, 06:29:23 AM
Well, yes, but practically everything is subjective to some degree. Some things more than others. The extent to which a person finds a game difficult depends on so many things specific to that person. Some people can beat the game with ease, others couldn't even if their lives depended on it. So I write that off as something that's not worth arguing about. I think something like game design can have a much more constructive conversation around it though (which is why I'm trying to talk about it now). Maybe I should have said "too subjective," so as not to seemingly imply that everything else I'm talking about is completely set in stone, but that's hair splitting.

I don't think adding in extra lives is a good way to balance a game, (especially not when the scoring system revolves around suiciding). It allows the player to bypass segments of the game without actually playing them, and removes the player from the game. It's ironic that people often complain about TD giving too few resources, since it is in fact their over-abundance (along with the fact that you are directly rewarded for spending them) that breaks the game's scoring system, and the gameplay is often summarized as "XXCXXC."
Well, technically it doesn't matter as you could clear the game without dying once. It also gets balanced in score, after all you get for each bomb and life a high extra reward at the end of each level and at the end of the full run. So you usually maximize your score by dying as few times as possible, which is definitely supporting what you describe as fun playstyle (Using as few resources as possible).

I also don't get why people say that you have to die in TD, I can't believe that. There has to be a way to maximize score without suiciding.


I am very disappoint at all of the disparaging comments about the UFO system. I will fight you people.
Fite me! I will decorate your fragile body with a thousand holes of my Danmaku!  :getdown:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Greatest Dog on May 17, 2013, 06:33:42 AM
Personally, I really liked SA's system of lives and bombs. By the time you've died on enough patterns to miss out on more than one life, chances are you're already at Orin or something with less than two lives remaining so who knows how far you'll get. And while bombs were generally in the same number as in Ten Desires, they were significantly weaker here than in any other game in the series (Barring Aya/Reimu). Thus, for the vast majority of characters, you actually had to dodge patterns even if you dropped a bomb (or more!) onto something.

UFO's system is really cool, in my opinion, as well. It gives the player the freedom to invest into his resource pool or PIV as he pleases, which gives survival-based players a substantial pool of resources and score-based runs a challenge of minimal lives and resources to dodge at the appropriate difficulty level.

Contrast with 10D where in terms of scoring or survival, there's practically no reason not to use XXCXXC since doing anything but gimps your resource pool and your scoring potential.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 17, 2013, 07:10:49 AM
I also don't get why people say that you have to die in TD, I can't believe that. There has to be a way to maximize score without suiciding.
Bombing bosses generates tons of spirits, recharging your trance. Killing yourself gives you more bombs. You basically want use trance as many times as you can. Try watching one of these world records (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/High_scores#Ten_Desires_world_records_.28.E6.9D.B1.E6.96.B9.E7.A5.9E.E9.9C.8A.E5.BB.9F.E3.81.AE.E4.B8.96.E7.95.8C.E8.A8.98.E9.8C.B2.29) and you'll see how it is.

Problem with UFO is there's nothing to do against bosses aside from grazemilk. It's all in the stages, and stages aren't really Touhou's strong point to begin with.

But look at me, talking about games I haven't even played in over a year. Silly.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 17, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
I also don't get why people say that you have to die in TD, I can't believe that. There has to be a way to maximize score without suiciding.
If by that you mean "there is a way to maximize score in the context of playing where you don't suicide", then yes? But 10D's scoring system is such that you have to, in order to get a noteworthy score. Endgame bonus is piddly compared to the rest of the game. SA, at least, was structured that you would suicide lives for graze, then spend the rest of the game getting faith, precariously and aggressively grazing more while really attempting not to die lest your faith gets sliced. As a bonus, needing to no-death the rest of the game means the end bonus is actually reasonable.

Fite me! I will decorate your fragile body with a thousand holes of my Danmaku!  :getdown:
You haven't said anything for me to bark at yet. If I say "fight me" you don't just say "ok then fight me".

Isn't the game allowing just one mistake "too much"? Because if that is not the case, then the statements "You have every right to find the game difficult. That's all subjective and whatever," and "But you can't say the game is poorly designed because it doesn't allow enough mistakes, especially when you can simply continue on with the game immediately after dying," are in contrast with one another. Whether something is poor game design is also subjective.
If by contrast you mean contradiction then no, but if you do mean contrast then yes. Experience of the game is what's subjective. How you respond to certain elements and how you think that they work -within the scope of your playing- is subjective. You can think a game is too hard and someone else can think it's too easy. Trivially subjective.
Game design, by contrast, is "subjective" in some senses, but at its core its goal is to be exactly not that. Game design is precisely for establishing a more objective set of heuristics within the context and scenario you're setting up with your game. The genre, your core audience and playerbase, what type of game you want to develop and how you want to accomplish whatever abstract set of goals you have in mind, and so on, are all parameters in consideration that will affect the sort of principles and design that you apply to your game. These are not fundamentally objective, but within the context of what you want to achieve with your game, they're pretty close.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mesarthim on May 17, 2013, 08:35:53 AM
I shall join the anti-UFO regime purely because Drake has made mention of UFO glory.

But seriously I have a really hard time with UFO Hard (lunatic for me is an impossibility) and I have a severe case of UFO-related deaths (literally, ufo items flying around the screen, oh crap no I didn't mean to ram that bullet, wait no, ugh). You get the point. I don't hate UFO but oh man am I ever so clumsy.

I take most if not all games at face value and accept them as is. I look forward to the next game.
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 17, 2013, 08:57:39 AM
So, Touhou 14.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mesarthim on May 17, 2013, 09:05:27 AM
Your master plan to return it fully on topic.

But anyways I can't say I necessarily have any complaints that it will be more plain in mechanics much like MoF (as per mention on the wiki). In  a way it does help me focus more on the bullets and less on the unique mechanics but sometimes that mechanic makes it more fun. I liked the graze factor of SA yet loathed but found the UFO mechanic intriguing (sorry Drake).

Demo comes out in what, 9 days? Not that I know when I'd be playing the demo around that period if at all.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 17, 2013, 09:15:20 AM
But anyways I can't say I necessarily have any complaints that it will be more plain in mechanics much like MoF (as per mention on the wiki). In  a way it does help me focus more on the bullets and less on the unique mechanics but sometimes that mechanic makes it more fun. I liked the graze factor of SA yet loathed but found the UFO mechanic intriguing (sorry Drake)
I couldn't agree more. My biggest complaints with UFO and TD is that theres a chance (higher later on) that you lose a life trying to get a life. (I'm bad, I know) Just being able to focus on the game and gaining life through the points items that fall towards you or by scoring is the least rage inducing for me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 17, 2013, 09:47:01 AM
Your master plan to return it fully on topic.

But anyways I can't say I necessarily have any complaints that it will be more plain in mechanics much like MoF (as per mention on the wiki). In  a way it does help me focus more on the bullets and less on the unique mechanics but sometimes that mechanic makes it more fun. I liked the graze factor of SA yet loathed but found the UFO mechanic intriguing (sorry Drake).

Demo comes out in what, 9 days? Not that I know when I'd be playing the demo around that period if at all.
Actually a return of SAs grazing system would be welcome. It was simple enough, but somewhat more intriguing than MoF. And MoF was a little too hectic with the score bonus getting reduced the moment you wouldn't gather pickups or shoot fairies. That had a greatly demotivating effect on me.


Just another speculation - Maybe we see a return of different "attributes" for characters - such as Reimus smaller cheat hitbox or increased speed for Marisa. After all that would be retro, too. Up to Touhou 9 all characters had different attributes, in PCB they even had different default bombs per life.



You haven't said anything for me to bark at yet. If I say "fight me" you don't just say "ok then fight me".
Then I'll poke a little. UFO felt more restricting and had you pinned more at the bottom of the screem because moving would often mean collecting the wrong UFO. And then there is the absence of yellow UFOs, which is unforgivable! :getdown:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 17, 2013, 04:16:45 PM
And then there is the absence of yellow UFOs, which is unforgivable! :getdown:

And what are they supposed to drop? Graze?

Maybe we see a return of different "attributes" for characters - such as Reimus smaller cheat hitbox or increased speed for Marisa.

I think those things never really went anywhere.

On another note, I'm a bit worried about one thing, but we won't see it in demo anyway. I really like credit rolls in Touhou games, they're such a nice moment after you've completed one. ZUN wondered in his comment whether they are even needed. I have no idea whether he was serious or not, but I'll be really sad if this game doesn't have one.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 18, 2013, 05:31:38 AM
In  a way it does help me focus more on the bullets and less on the unique mechanics but sometimes that mechanic makes it more fun. I liked the graze factor of SA yet loathed but found the UFO mechanic intriguing (sorry Drake).
And sometimes the mechanic is what encourages you to dodge the bullets and makes it more fun, rather than just taking an easier path ;D

I couldn't agree more. My biggest complaints with UFO and TD is that theres a chance (higher later on) that you lose a life trying to get a life. (I'm bad, I know) Just being able to focus on the game and gaining life through the points items that fall towards you or by scoring is the least rage inducing for me.
I'm a bit confused why you noted 10D here, but the way I'm reading this is "I don't want to have to do anything special in order to get extra lives". While score-based extends are great since ideally they should push you to actively work with the game's mechanics for survival, EoSD and MoF both fall utterly flat in this regard by handing every player all the extends before the end of the game regardless of how good they are with the mechanics. In the same light, PCB's distribution of the extends makes it so that every player will get five, and probably six or more, not doing anything in particular for them at all.
It's like because of this, you've internalized that the game is supposed to hand you a certain amount of lives by the end of the game. Sure, ideally, you're going to get the maximum amount of lives you find feasible, but if actively getting one extend is hard for you to get or you think you might die trying, there's always the option of y'know not getting it and just staying where you are. You haven't lost anything but your opportunity. This is what extends are; a reward for fulfilling some requirement. They aren't lives that are tacked onto your starting total but just happen to show up later in the game. Well, I guess they are for the games mentioned, but the point is that they shouldn't be.
What if MoF did this and only the first extend was really easy, and then rest were say 400m and up from there? Would you be more incentivized to score?

Actually a return of SAs grazing system would be welcome. It was simple enough, but somewhat more intriguing than MoF. And MoF was a little too hectic with the score bonus getting reduced the moment you wouldn't gather pickups or shoot fairies. That had a greatly demotivating effect on me.
SA's graze system I have two main disagreements with, which are the lack of focus on the POC and the milkiness of quantity-grazing for score.
With all items flying towards you at max value for some grazing, which most of the patterns are centered around, it removes the necessity to move up to the POC to collect, when POC itself is a magnificent thing. What this does is basically let the player be content sitting around idly grazing fixed or aimed things (not that this is very true for high scoring) around the bottom of the screen, which the POC itself is directly against. I find it interesting how you say UFO pins you at the bottom yet don't notice this, while I'll argue it's the exact opposite. Now as said SA's patterns are designed to work with this, so the POC is sometimes infeasible to reach, like often in stage 4. So it isn't a huge deal in execution, but I don't like it on principle.
Second, the system ends up early that you milk patterns for graze. That's just bad. Especially with ReimuA. Like I said before, the latter-half's focus on survival while getting faith and more graze is great, but... it's a graze milking system nonetheless. I'm very hard-pressed to name a game where your quantity of graze is important for scoring and it somehow doesn't run down to milking things. Me and others have thought long and hard about how to frame a game's mechanics around the "quality" of grazing, or how long you were grazing things intensely and how often you shoved yourself into danger, rather than having patterns yielding huge graze points and skewing distribution. This, I think, is a much better way to encapsulate the main point of grazing, which is to have the player force themselves into danger in order to be rewarded. However, I haven't yet been satisfied with anything I've come up with as a coherent system either (after scrutiny), so bleh.

Then I'll poke a little. UFO felt more restricting and had you pinned more at the bottom of the screem because moving would often mean collecting the wrong UFO.
I'm... not actually sure what you mean by this. How does the conflict of more than one UFO on screen force you to the bottom? That just avoids all of the UFOs. To begin with, the UFO system is what gives the player the incentive to start moving all over the screen where they might not normally want to go due to bullets. When you give the player this opportunity, it creates the risk-reward scenario of offering the player extra resources or points for daring but successful behaviour. But even with like 4 blinking UFOs on screen somehow it's usually the bullets that prevent you from getting the UFO you want (i.e. stage 4), so I'm not sure why the UFO collection is why you'd say it has you pinned.

EDIT: Ammy's right, if someone wants to take this then make a new thread lol
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gappy on May 18, 2013, 09:58:30 AM
Sakuya and Youmu's reaction to Touhou 14 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYsuArnZCtg
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 18, 2013, 01:51:17 PM
A bit belated because I was distracted, but: Can we not turn the Touhou 14 thread into Touhou 13 bashing? Please and thank you.

Comparisons and so on are fine, but this thread isn't even about 10D. I will freely admit to being a bit biased here because I still have a lingering dislike for all things 10D and enjoy seeing it criticized, but this just isn't the thread for that. This is a "yay! New Touhou game!" thread, not a thread to talk about how much we hate 10D. In a thread that can contain up to 1000 posts, we're bound to get some derails into comparing this with other game announcements, but it we could stay on the title topic that'd be pretty great, y'all. We've only got two weeks 'till demo release, so we can surely MOSTLY stay on topic before we start getting bored.

Same applies to UFO or whatever. If y'all want to have the same argument you always have about previous games, you can do it in HME. Let's try and keep stuff on track here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ginko on May 19, 2013, 12:05:25 PM
Erm, my bad.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 19, 2013, 12:10:07 PM
Update ! Miko revealed !

Special Trait : Vocation of the Statesman

As Miko gains popularity, she  attracts the desires of the audience.
By attracting a lot of desires, all of her attacks become stronger.
Conversely, if she loses popularity, she lets go of the accumulated desires,
and if she loses too many desires, her attacks will be weaker than the usual, so that she
has to pay twice more attention to her popularity.

Miko revealed on Touhou 13.5 right?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 20, 2013, 12:16:28 PM
On another note, I'm a bit worried about one thing, but we won't see it in demo anyway. I really like credit rolls in Touhou games, they're such a nice moment after you've completed one. ZUN wondered in his comment whether they are even needed. I have no idea whether he was serious or not, but I'll be really sad if this game doesn't have one.
The staff roll joke is a common theme in all Touhou games. If you have them, you can look it up yourself. He always writes things into the staff roll theme description like "...and there is not enough staff" "It's a shame that there isn't more staff" "I lately wondered if there is a point to the credits". It's dating back to EoSD, maybe even before that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 20, 2013, 12:38:26 PM
Besides which, how else would we know that ZUN is grateful for

ant

fang

... and you
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 20, 2013, 03:59:30 PM
... and you

This thing alone is enough of a reason for a 1cc and not skipping credits :qq:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 20, 2013, 05:18:58 PM
This thing alone is enough of a reason for a 1cc and not skipping credits :qq:

The songs are cool too  :qq:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mesarthim on May 21, 2013, 02:47:49 AM
Honestly my favorite credits theme is from Perfect Cherry Blossom.

If a credit sequence was omitted from a Touhou game a tear would be shed that day. Actually I assume a lot would be.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Greatest Dog on May 21, 2013, 06:14:22 PM
Like, really, I never watched MoF's credits roll but it turns out Sylphid Dream is actually really cool.

And it doesn't consist entirely of Suwa Foughten Field.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: PhantomSong on May 21, 2013, 11:22:52 PM
Hmmm I don't know if anyone pointed this out yet so apologies.

But:
"Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya's individual weapons have suddenly started acting on their own. On top of that, the Youkai who are usually quiet and subdued have suddenly started rebelling. Will the three oppose their own weapons or abandon them?"

This sounds likes possession, like by ghosts. Who's a ghost who likes to cause trouble? Who's a ghost that influences Youkai?

C'mon if you haven't guessed yet... MIMA! I mean I hardly doubt it... But it is a possibility?

(I doubt it because TD and UFO left up in disappointment...)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 21, 2013, 11:31:46 PM
But it is a possibility?
(I doubt it because TD and UFO left up in disappointment...)
It sounds like your trying to tell but it looks like your trying to ask. I'm not sure how TD's or UFO's lack of Mima is evidence against Mima's appearance in DDC. First of all, what you said seems pretty valid, and second of all... duh. Mima is doing not only exactly what you said she might be doing but also more.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 22, 2013, 12:28:40 AM
number of works with mima directly in them: 4
number of works released since mima's last direct appearance: 38
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: _cf on May 22, 2013, 12:35:21 AM
So, Touhou 14.
Right, Touhou 14: I've been thinking on what could make Sakuya return to incident solving, and a good answer is: The incident somehow affects the SDM. But how?

Well, this game is seemingly about magical tools going haywire, and SDM has a lot of magical books in its library, So I've had this dream about stage 1 being Voile in utter chaos with magical books shooting everything, with an exasperated Patchouli as the 1st stage boss.

The first stage midboss would be Flandre, of course. She's also putting the magical books down but she's very careless, so she enters the screen mid stage, shoots about 2 billions of bullets on books outside the screen but a few stray bullets come to your side (mimicking the difficulty and density of a 1st stage midboss spellcard). You shoot her just enough so that she goes to play elsewhere.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 22, 2013, 03:39:20 AM
Hmmm I don't know if anyone pointed this out yet so apologies.

But:
"Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya's individual weapons have suddenly started acting on their own. On top of that, the Youkai who are usually quiet and subdued have suddenly started rebelling. Will the three oppose their own weapons or abandon them?"

This sounds likes possession, like by ghosts. Who's a ghost who likes to cause trouble? Who's a ghost that influences Youkai?

C'mon if you haven't guessed yet... MIMA! I mean I hardly doubt it... But it is a possibility?

(I doubt it because TD and UFO left up in disappointment...)
Well, ZUN wouldn't certainly have Mima return as antagonist for a game, if he made her return. Most Touhou characters share that they get beaten by Reimu / Marisa once and then they are "subdued" and working with the two, if they do make a return in the first place. So the only chance of Mima returning would be as playable character or in a Fighter / Phantasmagoria game, but it's highly unlikely.

Also, there are a lot of more ghosts in Touhou than just Mima.



Right, Touhou 14: I've been thinking on what could make Sakuya return to incident solving, and a good answer is: The incident somehow affects the SDM. But how?
We actually know that already. Her weapons start acting on their own. The actual question is not how they get involved but who targets her. It will be probably a new Youkai, though, so thinking too hard about that question won't lead us anywhere.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 22, 2013, 03:45:56 AM
Right, Touhou 14: I've been thinking on what could make Sakuya return to incident solving, and a good answer is: The incident somehow affects the SDM. But how?
I posted this earlier for the lulz:
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3020/34453a07039e8aa53b5b234.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/34453a07039e8aa53b5b234.png/)

Quote
Well, this game is seemingly about magical tools going haywire, and SDM has a lot of magical books in its library, So I've had this dream about stage 1 being Voile in utter chaos with magical books shooting everything, with an exasperated Patchouli as the 1st stage boss.
Wasn't it already confirmed that Voile isn't the name of the library and that it's simply the theme's name?


Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Lavalake on May 22, 2013, 03:59:13 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but maybe Touhou 14 can be like Concealed the Conclusion and have split paths for each character. It could be to make the game more interesting because of the lack of gimmick.
Although maybe it won't...
Although I don't think Mima's going to be in the game or the final boss, because following the tradition, final bosses are always new characters.
The sprite that looks like Orin in one of the screenshots doesn't make since considering the plot. It might be another China/Orange character development like some other people said.
SDM does use a lot of magic, maybe the magic has all gone haywire and Sakuya has to solve the problem.
The screenshots does show what looks like the Misty Lake. Maybe Cirno will make a return since Perfect Cherry Blossom. She's one of the few special characters that have been in more than one main series game. (Alice, and Yuyuko are others.) Playable characters don't count.

I can't wait for the demo. I just want to see what ZUN has in store for us.
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 22, 2013, 04:28:52 AM
Right, Touhou 14: I've been thinking on what could make Sakuya return to incident solving, and a good answer is: The incident somehow affects the SDM. But how?


Considering that thre seems to be an youkai outbreak going on while Reimu's, Marisa's and Sakuya's weapons ar being possessed, I think that some of those youkais have decided to target SDM for some reason, and Sakuya decided to get to the bottom of this incident in order to stop the attacks.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 22, 2013, 04:37:47 AM
Wasn't it already confirmed that Voile isn't the name of the library and that it's simply the theme's name?
It was part of the many errors in Strange and Bright Nature Deity that were later officially corrected.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 22, 2013, 05:12:54 AM
It was part of the many errors in Strange and Bright Nature Deity that were later officially corrected.
Can you please be more precise?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 22, 2013, 06:38:15 AM
東方三月精 Touhou Sangetsusei
Eastern and Little Nature Deity
画像及び本文中の記載間違いに関するお詫びと訂正
Apology and correction in regards to errors in portraits and text passages

    2007年1月26日に発売致しました「東方三月精 Eastern and Little Nature Deity」の画像及び本文中の記載に間違いがありました。
修正箇所につきましては、原作者監修のもと正誤表を作成致しましたので、ホームページにて掲載させていただきます。
読者の皆様はじめ、関係各位にはご迷惑をおかけしましたことをお詫びすると共に、ここに訂正させていただきます。
    In the 01/26/2007 release of Touhou Sangetsusei ~ Eastern and Little Nature Deity, there were errors in the portraits as well as the text.
In order to correct these passages, errata were written up with the supervision of the original author, and will be published on the home page.
To all of our readers, and to anyone else it may concern, we offer our sincerest apologies for the trouble we have caused, and humbly offer the corrections below.


コンプエース編集部
Comp-Ace Editorial

※この正誤表は原作者の監修の下、作成したものです。
These errata have been written up under the supervision of the original author.

●キャラクター紹介画像の誤掲載
  Character introduction portrait errors
誤 (Error)
       
正 (Correction)
[Youmu]         [Yuyuko]
[Yuyuko]         [Yukari]
[Keine]         [Reisen]
[Portraits from Imperishable Night are pictured]

●本文中の誤植箇所
  In-text misprinted passages
誤 (Error)
       
正 (Correction)
ヴワル図書館   (Voile Library)        紅魔館内の図書館   (The Library in the Scarlet Devil Mansion)
(藤原妹紅の種族)月人   (Fujiwara no Mokou's species; Lunarian)        人間   (Human)
幻想郷唯一の情報媒体   (Gensokyo's only news medium)        幻想郷の貴重な情報媒体   (Gensokyo's valuable news medium)
冥界の裁判官   (The Judge of the Netherworld)        地獄の裁判官   (The Judge of Hell)
麗夢   (Used "Rei" in "Hakurei" for "Reimu")        霊夢
全6タイトル   (All 6 titles)        全5タイトル   (All 5 titles)
蓬莱の玉の輿   (The jeweled palanquin of Hourai)        蓬莱の玉の枝   (The jeweled branch of Hourai)
森近霖之助(もりちかしんのすけ)   ("Shinnosuke")        森近霖之助(もりちかりんのすけ)

●キャラクター名英語表記の誤記
  Character name romanization errors
誤 (Error)
       
正 (Correction)
Lumia        Rumia
Chilno        Cirno
Hong Meyling        Hong Meirin
Pachery Knowledge        Patchouli Knowledge
Frandoll Scarlet        Frandre Scarlet
Rhetty Whiterock        Letty Whiterock
Tcheng        Chen
LillyWhite        Lily White
Merlan Prismriver        Merlin Prismriver
Rilica Prismriver        Lyrica Prismriver
Onoduka Komachi        Onozuka Komachi

Source: http://www.comptiq.com/release/comic/55touhou_owabi.html (dead)

brb crossposting in misc questions for referencing
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: N-Forza on May 22, 2013, 07:23:46 AM
And they still didn't get Flandre right (presumably) :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 22, 2013, 07:57:56 AM
Actually, some of these names are pretty awesome.
Tcheng and Rilica are amazing :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 22, 2013, 01:16:42 PM

Pachery Knowledge        Patchouli Knowledge
Frandoll Scarlet        Frandre Scarlet
Rhetty Whiterock        Letty Whiterock
Tcheng        Chen
Pacherry plx
HAahahAhahaahAHahaHaahah  :getdown:
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kazami on May 22, 2013, 02:30:13 PM
Well, this game is seemingly about magical tools going haywire, and SDM has a lot of magical books in its library, So I've had this dream about stage 1 being Voile in utter chaos with magical books shooting everything, with an exasperated Patchouli as the 1st stage boss.

The first stage midboss would be Flandre, of course. She's also putting the magical books down but she's very careless, so she enters the screen mid stage, shoots about 2 billions of bullets on books outside the screen but a few stray bullets come to your side (mimicking the difficulty and density of a 1st stage midboss spellcard). You shoot her just enough so that she goes to play elsewhere.
Or, instead of Flandre... I dunno, Koakuma? *Wild Mass Guess*
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: PhantomSong on May 22, 2013, 09:57:53 PM
Well, ZUN wouldn't certainly have Mima return as antagonist for a game, if he made her return. Most Touhou characters share that they get beaten by Reimu / Marisa once and then they are "subdued" and working with the two, if they do make a return in the first place. So the only chance of Mima returning would be as playable character or in a Fighter / Phantasmagoria game, but it's highly unlikely.

Also, there are a lot of more ghosts in Touhou than just Mima.



That's not entirely true at all... Bosses have appeared as antagonists, sure mostly mid-bosses, (unless you want to count Yuyuko... Who wasn't really an antagonist...) but they still are in the heroine's path

As for the ghost thing:
Sure, that's what most of the Youkai in the games are! (But note Spirit =/= Ghost in Gensokyo. Mima's an Evil Spirit, or so she claims. The other branches of Ghosts are: Poltergeist, Phantom, and Ghost) But Mima likes to cause malice, and did so 4 or so times!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 23, 2013, 12:19:46 AM
But Mima likes to cause malice, and did so 4 or so times!

38 games works ago.

She's not coming back.

:suwakodwi:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 23, 2013, 12:46:30 AM
38 games ago.

She's not coming back.

:suwakodwi:

^
Also, that emoticon is awesome. Just saying. ^^;
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: PhantomSong on May 23, 2013, 01:01:00 AM
38 games ago.
She's not coming back.
Welp, they did speculate that when it was 36 games ago...
But I'll be a good child and just wait for the full game...
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/367446/reimu-donation-box-o.gif)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Suwako Moriya on May 23, 2013, 01:30:43 AM
Also, that emoticon is awesome. Just saying. ^^;

You damn skippy, son.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mayson on May 23, 2013, 02:17:39 AM
38 games ago.

She's not coming back.

:suwakodwi:
Technically, she is still at the Hakurei Shrine, just like Ruukotu and Genji.  :getdown: That's why they are not mentioned, anyway. I wonder why the doujin community never picked this up.

Welp, they did speculate that when it was 36 games ago...
But I'll be a good child and just wait for the full game...
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/367446/reimu-donation-box-o.gif)
Don't hold your breath. There won't be Mima in it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Savory on May 23, 2013, 02:54:10 AM
38 games ago.

Sweet gravy, it's been that many already?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gpop on May 23, 2013, 02:58:42 AM
You damn skippy, son.
Suwako > Kanako
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Limian on May 23, 2013, 03:51:11 PM
Sweet gravy, it's been that many already?
It's been 38 works, factoring all the albums and printworks, I assume.

Also, living a shrine would be a REASON to see those characters more often, considering all the endings and mangas that take place there. They just seem to have vanished.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 23, 2013, 03:57:01 PM
Yes, I'd meant works; not games. Pardon the confusion. We are not coming up on Touhou 39 just yet.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tiamat on May 23, 2013, 04:31:20 PM
Mima never vanished, everyone! Byakuren can sense that she's angry she doesn't have any faith at the end of UFO and she still can give her blessings via the yin yang orbs of youkai extermination! It's just that no one remembers her name now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 23, 2013, 04:45:14 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/30ODa1E.jpg)

I dreamed I was walking along the beach with Mima, and
Across the sky flashed scenes from previous games.
For each game I noticed two sets of shot types on the screen;
One belonged to me, and the other to Mima.
When the last stage of the game flashed before us,
I looked back at the score.
I noticed that many times along the path through the game,
There was only one shot type.

I also noticed that it happened at the very lowest
and saddest times of the games
This really bothered me, and I questioned Mima about it.
"Mima, you said that once I decided to follow you,
You would walk with me all the way;
But I have noticed that during the
most troublesome non-spells in the game,
There is only one shot type.
I don't understand why in times when I
needed you the most, you should leave me."

Mima replied, "My precious, precious
child. I love you, and I would never,
never leave you during your times of
trial and suffering.
When you saw only one shot type,
It was then that I carried you."
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 23, 2013, 05:29:43 PM
Wrong thread...  :V

So we have to wait 'till Reitaisai for the demo... Luckily Sakuya will be playable again. I though ZUN forgot her.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 23, 2013, 07:33:27 PM
Wrong thread...  :V

So we have to wait 'till Reitaisai for the demo... Luckily Sakuya will be playable again. I though ZUN forgot her.

Well, she did appear in Forbidden Scrollery recently...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Suikama on May 23, 2013, 11:22:55 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/30ODa1E.jpg)

I dreamed I was walking along the beach with Mima, and
Across the sky flashed scenes from previous games.
For each game I noticed two sets of shot types on the screen;
One belonged to me, and the other to Mima.
When the last stage of the game flashed before us,
I looked back at the score.
I noticed that many times along the path through the game,
There was only one shot type.

I also noticed that it happened at the very lowest
and saddest times of the games
This really bothered me, and I questioned Mima about it.
"Mima, you said that once I decided to follow you,
You would walk with me all the way;
But I have noticed that during the
most troublesome non-spells in the game,
There is only one shot type.
I don't understand why in times when I
needed you the most, you should leave me."

Mima replied, "My precious, precious
child. I love you, and I would never,
never leave you during your times of
trial and suffering.
When you saw only one shot type,
It was then that I carried you."
i like how the seagulls make it look like she has messed up eyebrows
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tiamat on May 24, 2013, 12:31:06 AM
Not sure why people say Sakuya seemed forgotten. ZUN's practically been forcing her into the various mangas recently and always has been. She even got her own title in one silly case in FS as well as design notes and preview sketches and everything in the omake despite only being there for like, one page and having 2 lines of dialogue.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 24, 2013, 01:24:39 AM
I think ZUN is just trying hard to give Sakuya a reason to be in something. Maybe its because a huge majority of fans favour her? While I'm here I might mention that I'm not too fond about Sakuya.

EDIT: Correcting myself after reading Helepolis's post, my thought about ZUN trying hard to put Sakuya in is invalid now, HUGELY. I don't really keep up with ZUN updates much so yeah.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: PhantomSong on May 24, 2013, 02:13:36 AM
I'm not too fond about Sakuya.
THANK YOU! Someone! I hardly even play as Sakuya just because she had an awkward play style... always. Even SakuyaA I struggled using in PCB.
Don't get me wrong, Sakuya is a really good character if you can find the time to make her work  :ohdear:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 24, 2013, 02:40:40 AM
I hardly even play as Sakuya just because she had an awkward play style...
I kinda ment that I'm not to fond of her character and not entirely with playstyle. Playstyle wise she was the first character I ever 1cc'd PCB with type A and type B isn't too bad after you get to know where fairies and bosses are going to be. Character wise I think shes kinda uninteresting, even in fanon.
But that's just me, I might have missed some details about her.  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gpop on May 24, 2013, 03:50:16 AM
I kinda ment that I'm not to fond of her character and not entirely with playstyle. Playstyle wise she was the first character I ever 1cc'd PCB with type A and type B isn't too bad after you get to know where fairies and bosses are going to be. Character wise I think shes kinda uninteresting, even in fanon.
But that's just me, I might have missed some details about her.  :V

Sup, you and I can be best friends.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 05:01:39 AM
I used to be a pretty big Sakuya fan, but I've gotten pretty bored with her lately, to the point where I'm slightly disappointed she came back. I feel like she doesn't really fit in with the setting anymore. Then again, maybe that's the point.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hinacle on May 24, 2013, 05:04:55 AM
I'm not the only one that dislikes Sakuya?! Ohdeargodyeeees.
I never understood what people liked about her. >~> she's kinda bland and boring to me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 24, 2013, 05:08:16 AM
I... I never expected I'd be the only devoted Sakuya fan on this forum.

I accept my role as this thread's antagonist.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 24, 2013, 05:21:59 AM
I'm not the only one that dislikes Sakuya?! Ohdeargodyeeees.
I never understood what people liked about her. >~> she's kinda bland and boring to me.
I don't dislike her.  She simply isn't on of my favorite Touhou girls list.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 24, 2013, 05:43:48 AM
Sakuya B is an excellent shot type what are you guys talking about.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 24, 2013, 05:50:26 AM
SakuyaBest
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tsalop on May 24, 2013, 05:52:26 AM
Sakuya B is an excellent shot type what are you guys talking about.
Yeah, especially when Merlin wants to have little skinship....
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Agent of the BSoD on May 24, 2013, 06:36:22 AM
I've always liked Sakuya. Back when I only had EoSD, she was at that point my favorite character (beating it above Mokou, which I saw first from that one IN video on YouTube that everyone has seen) , and then PCB and Yukari happened. :V She's still one of my top favorites, though.

I personally prefer to play as a Sakuya shottype in PCB, and I'm favoring a little more to SakuyaB. I'm pretty happy she managed to make a comeback.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 07:59:27 AM
All people in this thread claiming ZUN is try-hard in returning Sakuya or thinking her return is boring are being naive.

ZUN has never cared about public opinion when it comes down to Touhou design, or he would've done so by now. ZUN is never try-hard with returning characters, because every character he involves in the games have good arguments for being involved in the unprecedented affair. That is the whole thing about story line telling.

Additionally, this isn't about you whether you like Sakuya or some other Touhou girl. It is about the game it self and why a certain character is involved. We don't know why Sakuya is involved because we have
- no story line
- no dialogues
- no event prologues or afterwords

TL DR: Sakuya is here for yet an unknown reason  < Insert deal with it gif here >
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 08:01:22 AM
Well, personally I only expressed mild disappointment, but quite frankly I don't think I like the idea of a storyline where random time-stopping ninja maids with no backstory have a place in the story. Also, what did she have to do with PCB?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 24, 2013, 08:05:27 AM
Y'know off topic to the whole Sakuya ordeal with everyone. Dark Spark sounds unoriginal yet kinda cool for a variation of Master Spark, also have to wonder if the shot types would be representative of what situation the girl has chosen (abandoning their weapon or following it).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Malyszeq on May 24, 2013, 08:06:02 AM
The food storage in SDM was running low from the prolonged winter, as far as I remember, so Sakuya set out to end the incident.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 08:10:35 AM
The food storage in SDM was running low from the prolonged winter, as far as I remember, so Sakuya set out to end the incident.

Which also applies to Keine and Aya and various other characters who didn't exist yet. I suppose arguably you could say that the incidents since then have been less global though. It's certainly the case that the old "random non-villain messes with the laws of nature because they're bored" template hasn't held true for quite a long time.

Of course that just begs the question of what about this incident makes it more like PCB and less like UFO.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 08:10:51 AM
Well, personally I only expressed mild disappointment, but quite frankly I don't think I like the idea of a storyline where random time-stopping ninja maids with no backstory have a place in the story.
You're already judging the story being random without knowing even what ZUN is going to reveal us. How can you judge something that isn't yet there?

Also, what did she have to do with PCB?
Preventing the SDM from starvation.


Seriously though, speculations are one thing. Judgements are groundless without proper information. Logically liking Sakuya as a touhou is different. Has nothing to do with th14. People can like characters or not, fair enough.

Edit: I see several people posted before me.

Edit2: You see, not everything has to have a reason which leads into a ZUN.wav (bang). Whether you find the reason for Sakuya's involvement in PCB interesting, funny, boring or hateful is completely your own opinion and possibly valid. After all, subjective = subjective



Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 08:13:18 AM
It has everything to do with it because whether or not I like a character is based on how well they fit into stories I like. I know who Sakuya is. If I didn't then surely I wouldn't be able to say anything on the subject. But I do know who she is, and unless DDC completely changes who she is there are only so many kinds of stories that can be told about her.

Sure, if you're just judging characters based on how pretty you think they are in fanart or whether you'd take them as your waifu, then the discussion quickly becomes quite silly. But that's not the only way to evaluate characters.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 24, 2013, 08:20:10 AM
I agree more or less with Clarste, but I think concluding in advance that Sakuya won't have a good reason for joining the fray is underestimating ZUN, to an extent. In PCB and IN the other characters were pretty much thrown in just for its own sake, but he's gotten much more deliberate in how he's been staging things recently. Color me quite surprised if Sakuya doesn't end up worth her weight as a playable.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 08:24:55 AM
Though I am not questioning Clarste's knowlege about Sakuya or Touhou. I am just stating the fact that thousands of players are asking the question why Sakuya is involved. We don't know yet. Simple as that. Whether someone finds it boring, dull or good is acceptable reason but half the people are tossing it on reasoning such as: Story line and "sense". That is what is in my opinion wrong.

I am also patiently waiting for Reitaisai 10, because I want to know as well why she is here.
Title: Re: Project 14 - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 24, 2013, 08:32:58 AM
I'm not at all a fan of Sakuya, but it is pretty wat to say she won't fit in the story when you don't even know what it is. If you know something about the plot that the rest of us don't, feel free to share.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 24, 2013, 08:39:10 AM
Since when we're there people arguing over Sakuya making no sense in a story that isn't revealed yet? No really, when? I'm kinda lost here.
Guess I should mention my first post here that I wasn't saying it makes no sense for her to be here, cause regardless whether a playable character in a Touhou game is liked or not, there is always a reason the character will have as stated many times by other people here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Jana on May 24, 2013, 08:41:51 AM
Everyone should just remember that ZUN makes the games primarily for himself anyway, so if he feels like throwing Sakuya in for a "random" reason, that's what's he'll want to do. Though I also don't think it will be random at all.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 08:42:11 AM
While we're here, I've always wondered why Patchouli sent Marisa in SA instead of Sakuya. Seems like if your household has a pet human that would be the natural choice.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Critz on May 24, 2013, 09:16:17 AM
I assumed she's either just busy or really isn't a human being and thus is not allowed to go underground. Shame.
I don't like how ZUN didn't pick Sanae back then though. Would be a perfect chance for a "Oh crap, what have I done" moment for Kanako. And I wouldn't have to deal with her in EX :/.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 24, 2013, 11:54:57 AM
Since when we're there people arguing over Sakuya making no sense in a story that isn't revealed yet? No really, when? I'm kinda lost here.
see
quite frankly I don't think I like the idea of a storyline where random time-stopping ninja maids with no backstory have a place in the story. ...  I do know who she is, and unless DDC completely changes who she is there are only so many kinds of stories that can be told about her.
i.e., the story that we don't even know yet. It's an a priori dismissal of the game's still-unknown story, i.e., "if Sakuya is involved, then I know ahead of time that I probably won't like the story." Clarste can dislike Sakuya enough to have a lower opinion of the yet-to-arrive game, but I think a pre-emptive judgement of the story based solely on her presence alone is a little bit premature.

Of course this kind of griping is always common in the days leading up to a game release, and it's not really a big deal. But given the amount we don't know, I'd prefer to assume the best then express pre-emptive disappointment based on my own speculations.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 24, 2013, 12:06:31 PM
Ah, cheers for clearing that up for me, not really a fan about ragging on about stuff I don't like, even if it is personal.
Sup, you and I can be best friends.
Sorry for the late response, that sounds gravy.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 24, 2013, 12:10:47 PM
So many people discussing about Sakuya.

so..... can you imagine what does stage 1,2 and 3 boss looks like?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 24, 2013, 12:21:09 PM
I think this time around there's going going to be more western influenced characters that will be the bosses this time around, which I suppose that would be pretty neat. Although that first boss thats been revealed, I don't think that she has a floating sword, it could just be a bullet from the shot type Sakuya's using. But who knows? I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 24, 2013, 12:25:00 PM
also have to wonder if the shot types would be representative of what situation the girl has chosen (abandoning their weapon or following it).
I also wish that would be a case. Would be, for example, how Sakuya would fight without the usage of her knives.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 12:25:19 PM
So many people discussing about Sakuya.

so..... can you imagine what does stage 1,2 and 3 boss looks like?
Seeing ZUN has shown us exactly 1 boss so far, we can have some imagination of her looks (like how people used it to determine Koa's looks).

I doubt we're going to see Yuyuko again here forcing our girls to drink tea before leaving and pointing the way.  :V

I am hoping for a full cast of new Touhou girls. Mysterious front cover girl, too bad we have to wait for her reveal at Comiket most likely.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hatateru on May 24, 2013, 12:31:30 PM
Since Marisa's already got a flamethrower hakkero, wouldn't it be grand if Reimu's gohei functions like a magically extendable whip?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 24, 2013, 12:37:19 PM
Since Marisa's already got a flamethrower hakkero, wouldn't it be grand if Reimu's gohei functions like a magically extendable whip?

I cannot tell you how long I've waited for this.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 24, 2013, 12:38:28 PM
I don't want a completely new cast of characters. Id just like most of them to be new. I also appreciate the return of old characters. It keeps the series from getting episodic. ZUN said TD's Extra stage was a hint to the next game, so I rather expect Mamizou to show up.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 12:44:46 PM
I cannot tell you how long I've waited for this.
But you could've played Koumakan no Densetsu!!!

Btw, Isn't the hakkero a furnace originally anyway? If she isn't going to use phantasm shrooms to power her hakkero to blast master sparks, then I am curious about the screenshot where she burns everything down.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tsalop on May 24, 2013, 12:46:07 PM
I am glad that th14 will include Spell practice and practice start...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 24, 2013, 01:04:13 PM
TH10-13 characters were eastern clothes, this time on TH14, the characters will have western clothes.

i can`t wait for Goth Lolita Touhou.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 24, 2013, 01:33:45 PM
i can`t wait for Goth Lolita Touhou.
Considering Marisa's new spark is called "Dark Spark" I can only expect it to be part of the "dark" trend with "dark" youkai wearing such "dark" clothes. Wonder if all that dark would make everyone in Gensokyo go blind? (Sorry I had to).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 01:50:47 PM
What is this Dark Spark people have been constantly mentioning. I'm going back and forth in this thread to seek out information but I cannot seem to locate it. At least the screenshots don't show us a spell bomb? 

Edit: wow I must be really blind. It is like right there in the screenshot of Marisa written in Katakana. ORZ
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 24, 2013, 02:28:59 PM
Considering Marisa's new spark is called "Dark Spark" I can only expect it to be part of the "dark" trend with "dark" youkai wearing such "dark" clothes. Wonder if all that dark would make everyone in Gensokyo go blind? (Sorry I had to).

Clearly it means Ex-Rumia has lent her power to Marisa through osmosis.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 24, 2013, 03:40:22 PM
Considering Marisa's new spark is called "Dark Spark" I can only expect it to be part of the "dark" trend with "dark" youkai wearing such "dark" clothes. Wonder if all that dark would make everyone in Gensokyo go blind? (Sorry I had to).
Or everyone in Gensokyo has gone emo.

Have we seen both shot types of each character yet? If not, I'm thinking that each character might have a "dark" and "light" shot type.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 24, 2013, 04:08:33 PM
Or everyone in Gensokyo has gone emo.

Have we seen both shot types of each character yet? If not, I'm thinking that each character might have a "dark" and "light" shot type.
I think it's been stated that each character will have 3 shot types. One will be a cursed version of the weapon they normally use, and the other two will be unusual weapons (I guess). Wasn't there something about Sakuya using cards as her weapon.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 24, 2013, 04:38:18 PM
Wasn't there something about Sakuya using cards as her weapon.
She uses cards as options or whatever they were called in Touhou series.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Imosa on May 24, 2013, 04:52:59 PM
She uses cards as options or whatever they were called in Touhou series.
An option is just a thing that floats around you and shoots bullets right?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 24, 2013, 04:55:14 PM
An option is just a thing that floats around you and shoots bullets right?
Yep.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 24, 2013, 05:08:03 PM
Here's a question for the people who are more into the Touhou characters than I am: Has Sanae ever officially had a weapon of some kind? (As far as I can tell, Sanae's shot types seem to be using her own and/or Suwako/Kanako's magic...)

If not, I think that's a decent explanation for why Sakuya (whose primary attack is throwing knives) was included instead of Sanae.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 24, 2013, 05:11:13 PM
Here's a question for the people who are more into the Touhou characters than I am: Has Sanae ever officially had a weapon of some kind? (As far as I can tell, Sanae's shot types seem to be using her own and/or Suwako/Kanako's magic...)

If not, I think that's a decent explanation for why Sakuya (whose primary attack is throwing knives) was included instead of Sanae.

That's... That makes too much sense.

She seems to be throwing amulets and using her little (what I assume to be a) gohei, but unlike Reimu, almost entirely bases her powers on her goddesses; We haven't seen anything from her that isn't godess magic. I think.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Piranha on May 24, 2013, 05:12:38 PM
Afaik, she only uses her Gohei and/or her goddesses (judging from the fighting games here).

Good guess, btw.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tiamat on May 24, 2013, 05:35:07 PM
It would be nice if we could learn a bit more about Sakuya herself for once. I know that some people like how a lot of Touhou questions are unanswered, but Sakuya is an infuriating case where ZUN himself stated there IS an answer to the question. It's just his original plans to reveal the answer ended up being discarded (it's in the "ZUN's e-mails" page on the wiki). So we get the "fun" situation where you can't even make things up about Sakuya to fill in the holes because you know the ACTUAL answer exists. You just were never told it. Unlike other mysteries in the Touhou universe where there's probably an official answer that isn't directly given to us, Sakuya doesn't even provide any CLUES to play with (or at least, none that I could find despite all my searching).

I don't expect that to be happening in this game, though (or like, ever). Sakuya has and likely always will be just an extension of the SDM (which is too bad cause the other SDM characters actually branched out from it quite a bit here and there. Even Meiling in Hisoutensoku battles for the sake of Gensokyo, not just the SDM). I guess the few times Sakuya wasn't involved with the SDM, she was helping prepare food for other parties. It'd be more interesting if she were doing stage magician tricks instead, IMHO, like back during CoLA. Well, at least her options are cards which might be a reference to that.

And hey, maybe this game will prove me wrong. It's been so long since Sakuya last appeared that maybe ZUN got out of the whole "Whatever Sakuya is doing is completely related to the SDM" scthick by now.

....yea, I know, I'm late.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 24, 2013, 05:48:07 PM
Here's what's going to happen.

Sakuya: ...Where are my knives...?

Meiling: Eh? I don't know. I think they disappeared.

Patchouli: A youkai's doing, probably.

Sakuya: *Slowly sets down the teacup on the table* ...A shrine maiden and a witch attacked the mansion. I simply fought back. A ghost stole spring and threatened us with starvation. I simply fought back. A moon princess stole our moon. I again, simply fought back.

Remilia: ...I'll be going now-

Sakuya: BUT I WON'T LET ANYONE TOUCH MY GODDAMN KNIVES, AM I CLEAR? I WON'T FIGHT WHOEVER DID THIS; I'LL TEAR THEM APART AND CONSUME THEIR VERY FLESH; I'LL CARVE MY NAME OVER AND OVER IN THEIR LIMBS AND MAKE THEM REGRET THE DAY THEY TOUCHED MY PRECIOUS, SHARP, SILVERY BABIES.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 24, 2013, 05:54:57 PM
What I honestly wish that if you have "weaponless" shot type, Sakuya's Bomb of that shot type would allow her to stop time. That would be cool to have.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 24, 2013, 05:57:09 PM
What I honestly wish that if you have "weaponless" shot type, Sakuya's Bomb of that shot type would allow her to stop time. That would be cool to have.

Wasn't that her B shot type bomb in PCB...?

Regardless, it was actually pretty nice back then. Weak but cool. (And great in survival spellcards~ <3)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 24, 2013, 06:14:32 PM
Wasn't that her B shot type bomb in PCB...?

Regardless, it was actually pretty nice back then. Weak but cool. (And great in survival spellcards~ <3)
Well, to be all honest, I have never played Touhou games in my life ^^; (I actually have same problem with other game series which I am fan of). Still, thanks for pointing that out.

Though the different shot types with or without weapons does sound cool. Like Reimu's "weapon" shot type would be like amulets on unfocus, needles on focus and her bomb would be creating a giant Yin Yang Orb above her enemies.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 24, 2013, 06:21:06 PM
Though the different shot types with or without weapons does sound cool. Like Reimu's "weapon" shot type would be like amulets on unfocus, needles on focus and her bomb would be creating a giant Yin Yang Orb above her enemies.

Bomb aside, you might be glad to hear that this was her shot type in Ten Desires.

Well, to be all honest, I have never played Touhou games in my life ^^; (I actually have same problem with other game series which I am fan of). Still, thanks for pointing that out.

Aha, that explains it~ You should try them someday, they're quite fun.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 24, 2013, 06:32:24 PM
Bomb aside, you might be glad to hear that this was her shot type in Ten Desires.
Well, look at that. Not that similar shot type shouldn't come back.
Aha, that explains it~ You should try them someday, they're quite fun.
Yeah, maybe someday. Probably will try out one of the fighting games first if I get a chance since I have no real experience with shoot 'em ups in my life but I have some experience with fighting games.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 24, 2013, 06:42:55 PM
Well, look at that. Not that similar shot type shouldn't come back.

Of course, after all, most shot types are usually re-done. My favorites have to be SA, which took basic shot types, made original new ones, and slapped new bombs as well as cool passive abilities to each one. By FAR my favorite shot types.

Probably will try out one of the fighting games first if I get a chance since I have no real experience with shoot 'em ups in my life but I have some experience with fighting games.

I myself discovered Touhou through Hisoutensoku (which remains the only fighting game I'm good at, haha...), but I had loads of fun at the shooting games. I suck horribly (can you spell "Has a hard time on easy"?) but I actually like it anyway. It's like a weird sadomasochist fun.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Agent of the BSoD on May 24, 2013, 07:01:51 PM
What I honestly wish that if you have "weaponless" shot type, Sakuya's Bomb of that shot type would allow her to stop time. That would be cool to have.
Wasn't that her B shot type bomb in PCB...?
It was, to an extent. Her bombs as that shottype would stop bullets (but not new ones that spawn during the bomb) but the boss and enemies would still be able to move and shoot more danmaku. The bombs would also clear everything off the screen after they finished. It probably would've been a bit too powerful to have her able to freeze everything, excluding herself, as a bomb, but I dunno.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Solais on May 24, 2013, 07:13:48 PM
Considering Marisa's new spark is called "Dark Spark" I can only expect it to be part of the "dark" trend with "dark" youkai wearing such "dark" clothes. Wonder if all that dark would make everyone in Gensokyo go blind? (Sorry I had to).

Breaking: The final boss is Shadow the Hedgehog.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 24, 2013, 07:15:46 PM
Breaking: The final boss is Shadow the Hedgehog.
Emerald Sign: Chaos Control :o
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: 7TC7 on May 24, 2013, 07:18:10 PM
What I honestly wish that if you have "weaponless" shot type, Sakuya's Bomb of that shot type would allow her to stop time. That would be cool to have.

But.. isn't the Lunar Dial one of her weapons?I personally am thinking Lunar Dial could be corrupted just like Master Spark/Dark Spark is for one of Saku's Shot types, but I don't even know what corrupted time stop could be... Sakuya freezing herself in time?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Critz on May 24, 2013, 07:19:34 PM
Well, her PCB  bombs are named Perfect Square  on unfocus and Private Square  on focus. Private Square  in IaMP  can be used to either freeze time completely or slow time depending on the input (↓↘→D and ↓ ↙←D respectively), so it *is* a time manipulation card.

Private Square  is a level 1 card in IaMP, by the way. Level 2 equivalent, Sakuya's World  stops/slows time in exactly the same way, only for longer. And in SWR/Soku they changed it, so Private Square  became a 3-card cost timeslow, whereas Sakuya's World  became a 5-card cost timestop (which now sucks balls due to looong startup).

 :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 24, 2013, 07:29:23 PM
But.. isn't the Lunar Dial one of her weapons?I personally am thinking Lunar Dial could be corrupted just like Master Spark/Dark Spark is for one of Saku's Shot types, but I don't even know what corrupted time stop could be... Sakuya freezing herself in time?
Has it ever stated that she uses Lunar Dial to stop time aside of Watch "Lunar Dial" in Hisoutensoku? If not, then I don't see why it would really affect Sakuya even if something would possess it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 09:20:24 PM
Considering Marisa's new spark is called "Dark Spark" I can only expect it to be part of the "dark" trend with "dark" youkai wearing such "dark" clothes. Wonder if all that dark would make everyone in Gensokyo go blind? (Sorry I had to).
The full name of the bomb is (liberally translated) Youkai Device "Dark Spark". Given the plot of the game it's like 300% obvious that the Hakkero has been possessed or corrupted in some way, which is why the Spark is Dark.

But.. isn't the Lunar Dial one of her weapons?I personally am thinking Lunar Dial could be corrupted just like Master Spark/Dark Spark is for one of Saku's Shot types, but I don't even know what corrupted time stop could be... Sakuya freezing herself in time?
Lunar Dial is not a weapon, nor even a thing. It's just the name of her theme song. Also later one of her spellcards. Although spellcards of course being spells do not necessarily indicate the existence of an actual object. It's one of her thematic elements, but I doubt it actually exists as an object. Her weapons would presumably be her knives, which historically have been associated with "Illusion Sign" as Sakuya A from PCB. If she's like Marisa she'll probably have a "Dark" version of one of her spellcards.

I don't want a completely new cast of characters. Id just like most of them to be new. I also appreciate the return of old characters. It keeps the series from getting episodic. ZUN said TD's Extra stage was a hint to the next game, so I rather expect Mamizou to show up.
She might show up in HM first. Either way that would use up her promised appearance. I guess that keeps us on our toes.

seei.e., the story that we don't even know yet. It's an a priori dismissal of the game's still-unknown story, i.e., "if Sakuya is involved, then I know ahead of time that I probably won't like the story." Clarste can dislike Sakuya enough to have a lower opinion of the yet-to-arrive game, but I think a pre-emptive judgement of the story based solely on her presence alone is a little bit premature.

Of course this kind of griping is always common in the days leading up to a game release, and it's not really a big deal. But given the amount we don't know, I'd prefer to assume the best then express pre-emptive disappointment based on my own speculations.
I think you're misinterpreting me. I'm saying that Sakuya's motivations are relatively simple and straightforward, therefore it's easy to predict a general pattern that can get her into the fray. Either Remilia is interested in something and sends her to get it, or there's some kind of global problem that will affect SDM personally. It's possible to have opinions on those broad set-ups, isn't it?

My opinion is also being exaggerated. I've emphasized repeatedly that I only slightly disappointed. I don't hate Sakuya, and indeed she's always been one of my favorite characters. But I think the stories that involve her are less interesting than the ones that don't. Because her motivations are so limited. Having no personal motivations is actually one of her most notable character traits. In general I dislike this idea that's floating around that "we have no idea about anything and therefore can't say anything". We do know things. We know things about ZUN, about Sakuya, and about Gensokyo. We know that this is explicitly a throwback to the older games. These are the facts we can use to form impressions of as-of-yet unrevealed bits. Early impressions are obviously subject to change, but who said they weren't. "Slightly disappointed" "Not sure if I like the idea..." I've only used terms like this.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 24, 2013, 09:28:54 PM
But I think the stories that involve [Sakuya] are less interesting than the ones that don't. Because her motivations are so limited. Having no personal motivations is actually one of her most notable character traits. In general I dislike this idea that's floating around that "we have no idea about anything and therefore can't say anything". We do know things. We know things about ZUN, about Sakuya, and about Gensokyo. We know that this is explicitly a throwback to the older games. These are the facts we can use to form impressions of as-of-yet unrevealed bits. While it's always possible for ZUN to astonish us with something completely unexpected, that's not even necessarily a good thing if he has to change the bits we already like to do so.

Nobody has said you can't say anything. Speculation is always welcome, and you know this. You've straight-up said you don't have much confidence in what the game story will be, because Sakuya. A few times now. That's what folks were responding to. Your disappointment is noted, and everyone else has long since moved on, so how about we keep moving on.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 09:39:23 PM
Well, I doubt Shadow the Hedgehog will make an appearance.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 09:42:58 PM
Ok fine: Sakuya's knives got possessed which makes it troublesome to cook meals for the SDM crew. To prevent them from starvation she has to do something about.

She totally doesn't fits in the story line. Totally doesn't! Silly maid. Stay home.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 09:46:49 PM
I thought we already moved on.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 09:52:49 PM
I am wondering whether the final boss youkai is the one forcing the weapons to be possessed or something else happened a long with the "appearance" of this new unknown girl.

Also ZUN claims the players have to decide whether to use it, or abandon it (I guess this is in terms of shot-type picking). Though how would the girl's think about these possessed weapons. Very curious to the actual dialogues as well in the first three demo stages.

Gah, just 1,5 days ( GMT+2 timezone :V )
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 09:56:30 PM
I doubt they're forcing them to be possessed. That would make it sort of odd when you fight them with the possessed weapon. Probably a side effect of some other effect. ZUN usually writes two-layered plots like that.

The fact that youkai are running amok seems more relevant to me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 24, 2013, 10:10:56 PM
Gah, just 1,5 days ( GMT+2 timezone :V )
At what hour does RTS start and when can we expect a stream?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 24, 2013, 10:24:00 PM
Well, Reitaisai usually starts at 10:00 local JP time or something (doors opening). Not sure if a organisation has stream (Niconico?)

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: SeasideCharizard on May 24, 2013, 10:26:08 PM
Lunar Dial is not a weapon, nor even a thing. It's just the name of her theme song. Also later one of her spellcards. Although spellcards of course being spells do not necessarily indicate the existence of an actual object. It's one of her thematic elements, but I doubt it actually exists as an object. Her weapons would presumably be her knives, which historically have been associated with "Illusion Sign" as Sakuya A from PCB. If she's like Marisa she'll probably have a "Dark" version of one of her spellcards.
Just going to leave this here:
During Watch "Lunar Dial", Sakuya throws a stopwatch that stops time when it hits (the translated description indicates the watch itself stops time on hit). It should also be noted that her system card is a time-stopping stopwatch, although this one is silver and not gold like in Watch "Lunar Dial".
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 10:33:40 PM
Just going to leave this here:
During Watch "Lunar Dial", Sakuya throws a stopwatch that stops time when it hits (the translated description indicates the watch itself stops time on hit). It should also be noted that her system card is a time-stopping stopwatch, although this one is silver and not gold like in Watch "Lunar Dial".
The fact that she has a stopwatch doesn't mean it's called the Lunar Dial. Or that she only has one stopwatch. She's also known for enjoying flourish in her spellcards, as is befitting a stage magician, so it's unclear if the watch is actually special. Remilia has "Spear the Gungnir" which sounds pretty awesome and legendary, but Grimoire of Marisa makes it clear that it's just dense danmaku in the shape of a spear. Maybe the watch is magical, maybe it isn't, but personally I'd say the evidence leans against it. It's essentially the "Voile" problem. You can't really take song titles as canonical, and spellcards represent what the character is trying to say more than they represent facts.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: SeasideCharizard on May 24, 2013, 10:43:08 PM
The fact that she has a stopwatch doesn't mean it's called the Lunar Dial. Or that she only has one stopwatch. She's also known for enjoying flourish in her spellcards, as is befitting a stage magician, so it's unclear if the watch is actually special. Remilia has "Spear the Gungnir" which sounds pretty awesome and legendary, but Grimoire of Marisa makes it clear that it's just dense danmaku in the shape of a spear. Maybe the watch is magical, maybe it isn't, but personally I'd say the evidence leans against it. It's essentially the "Voile" problem. You can't really take song titles as canonical, and spellcards represent what the character is trying to say more than they represent facts.
I agree that the watch is probably not named the Lunar Dial, though I was trying to state that the watches themselves are capable of stopping time. This is especially given Sakuya doesn't have to be the one using it in Hisoutensoku.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 24, 2013, 10:45:09 PM
I'm not sure how literally we can take the system cards. Where would the characters even get these things? Although I suppose it is evidence of something, maybe.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Rei Scarlette on May 24, 2013, 10:55:57 PM
I had always assumed these cards were picked up after the match, but on second thought I guess that explanation doesn't work very well. IIRC you don't need to fight the correct character at all to get more of the cards, so Reimu just "picking up" these watch cards for example, after a battle with Marisa, makes no sense to begin with. Huh.

Also Okuu getting 4 watches and them suddenly being available for Meiling to use also makes no sense (or get this, four total watches but both Okuu and Meiling have all four) but it's fine as a gameplay mechanics sort of thing.

Now I really must wonder what's up with these cards and where they come from.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 25, 2013, 12:30:12 AM
Assuming there is a shot type where Sakuya abandons her weapons, as the story seems to hint at... well, the bomb might be stopping time (or might be something else), but what would the main shot be? All of Sakuya's shot types so far, as far as I know, involve her knives for the main shot.

It was, to an extent. Her bombs as that shottype would stop bullets (but not new ones that spawn during the bomb) but the boss and enemies would still be able to move and shoot more danmaku. The bombs would also clear everything off the screen after they finished. It probably would've been a bit too powerful to have her able to freeze everything, excluding herself, as a bomb, but I dunno.
I think it would have been less powerful if it fully stopped everything except herself. It wouldn't help as much during stage portions or survival cards, and the absence of new bullets would reduce the cherry+ gain (which in denser patterns is quite high compared to most shot types, see the world record (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg0DpV35x9s&list=PLyUFfxSSS5auqgtwDM3StpFLwEmIbrFFQ&index=2) for an example).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hinacle on May 25, 2013, 12:39:20 AM
Assuming there is a shot type where Sakuya abandons her weapons, as the story seems to hint at... well, the bomb might be stopping time (or might be something else), but what would the main shot be? All of Sakuya's shot types so far, as far as I know, involve her knives for the main shot.
Her shoes will be used :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Rei Scarlette on May 25, 2013, 12:42:59 AM
Unfocused: Spoons. Focused: Forks. >:D

Because these are not technically weapons and so there is no problem with using them.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Arcorann on May 25, 2013, 01:27:32 AM
Interesting trivia: the 26th is the 17th day of the lunar month.

Which means that Sakuya's return will fall directly after the sixteenth night. Coincidence, or something more?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Lukesky180 on May 25, 2013, 02:01:33 AM
Interesting trivia: the 26th is the 17th day of the lunar month.

Which means that Sakuya's return will fall directly after the sixteenth night. Coincidence, or something more?
Nope. ZUN the mastermind playing trix on us.  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 25, 2013, 03:28:06 AM
Updated just now:  http://kourindou.exblog.jp/20547983/

(http://i.imgur.com/zU7ZD2N.jpg)

Sakuya your HAND and its FINGERS

Sakuya your FACE
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Shizzo on May 25, 2013, 03:29:57 AM
She probably got the same disease Remilia had in IN from serving her for too long. 

My condolences to the SDM. :(
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 25, 2013, 03:31:27 AM
Goddamnit, ZUN! We though your artstyle was this time passable!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 25, 2013, 03:37:56 AM
Sakuya your HAND and its FINGERS

That looks like it hurts.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Stuffman on May 25, 2013, 03:42:33 AM
She's just taking after her oujo-sama.

(http://i.imgur.com/8R4n7bl.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 25, 2013, 03:45:38 AM
She looks like she's holding a big ass lollipop
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 25, 2013, 04:00:40 AM
Quick translation:

The CDs for tomorrow's Reitaisai release are done.

Of course I totally haven't mix my Buddhist chanting CD into it by mistake.

Now I won't be going to Reitaisai empty-handed.

The price is 300 yen~ Don't make me give you changes, (especially for newcomers)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 25, 2013, 04:16:23 AM
So... no new character on the demo disc for a mainstream Window series this time?  Or is this not the first time?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 25, 2013, 04:23:38 AM
Embodiment of Scarlet Derp. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Piranha on May 25, 2013, 04:26:58 AM
Haha, and I was looking forward to a non-derp Sakuya this time.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: PhantomSong on May 25, 2013, 04:36:09 AM
-goes read the blog-
-Has Google Chrome translate it into this:
Quote
Tomorrow, disk put out example festival was completed.
Chanting my CD did not or contains contents also wrong. I already tomorrow, not empty-handed in this. The Yo is scheduled for 300 yen, thank you for not to be your fishing (the people of the person, especially the first).
-

... You never can trust Google Chrome with language translations...   :derp:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tiamat on May 25, 2013, 04:43:10 AM
I think it's cute how derpily overjoyed she looks to be in the next game finally (and on a CD cover, to boot!)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: PhantomSong on May 25, 2013, 04:48:15 AM
I actually just noticed something
(http://oi39.tinypic.com/5yrztz.jpg)
Look how the path of Sakuya's knives go, they move out of the straight path. Perhaps that's how they're acting strange?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Polaris on May 25, 2013, 04:55:43 AM
(http://puu.sh/30D00.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: cuc on May 25, 2013, 04:56:26 AM
I can't recall any previous demo CD covers not using bosses, either.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 25, 2013, 05:43:39 AM
I actually just noticed something
(http://oi39.tinypic.com/5yrztz.jpg)
Look how the path of Sakuya's knives go, they move out of the straight path. Perhaps that's how they're acting strange?
Why would you assume it's originating there? looks to me like it's coming from her center as a separate stream.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 25, 2013, 07:13:57 AM
The price is 300 yen~ Don't make me give you changes, (especially for newcomers)
Yea you newcomers! Make sure you pay exactly 300! 3 coins! That is all!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mr_Bob on May 25, 2013, 07:19:18 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/zU7ZD2N.jpg)
PUHAHAHAHAHA!

The background looks nice though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Shizzo on May 25, 2013, 07:36:29 AM
Oh wait so the games're getting released today?  Goodness I completely forgot of the Japanese timezone factor.  Yay we'll hear of it faster than I thought we would!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sungho on May 25, 2013, 07:43:00 AM
No, it's still a bit less than 18 hours before start of Reitaisei.

Wonder what music there will be in the new game.
Actually looking forward to the music. It's been more than 10 months since his last.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 25, 2013, 07:46:04 AM
Wonder what music there will be in the new game.
New music, of course.  :P

I can't recall any previous demo CD covers not using bosses, either.
Thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Yonowaaru on May 25, 2013, 07:58:39 AM
Looking back through the blog, I can't find Ten Desires' demo CD, but UFO's had Nazrin and SA's had Yamane. All stage 1 bosses, huh.
I hope it's not going to be a 'Fight the other playable character' right at the start, though! If I'm going to fight Sakuya again, then at least as a stage 4 boss...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 25, 2013, 08:58:48 AM
Yea you newcomers! Make sure you pay exactly 300! 3 coins! That is all!
So if they pay 400 yen instead they get a slap on the wrist?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 25, 2013, 09:08:34 AM
If I were him I'd keep the change.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 25, 2013, 10:12:13 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/zU7ZD2N.jpg)
HER LEFT HAND AND ITS FINGERS.

She knive'd too much people :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 25, 2013, 10:53:08 AM
HER LEFT HAND AND ITS FINGERS.

She knive'd too much people :V
She really needs to meet up with Erin. If you arm gets so twisted by using throwing knives, that really isn't a good sign.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 25, 2013, 11:10:10 AM
She really needs to meet up with Erin. If you arm gets so twisted by using throwing knives, that really isn't a good sign.
Maybe she needs to rest it for a couple of years. *ba dum tssh*
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 25, 2013, 11:19:35 AM
Maybe she needs to rest it for a couple of years. *ba dum tssh*
Acutally, I thin she has been stabbing straw dolls all this time so her wrist is now twisted due of that :v:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 25, 2013, 11:35:26 AM
So if they pay 400 yen instead they get a slap on the wrist?
More like people paying 1000 yen bills to purchase something worth 300. I saw people at Reitaisai having a large bag of coins or a box full of coins. So I asked NForza why they did that. He said that they prefer to pay exact price to save the booth owners from change-problems.

Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 25, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
Updated just now:  http://kourindou.exblog.jp/20547983/

(http://i.imgur.com/zU7ZD2N.jpg)

Sakuya your HAND and its FINGERS

Sakuya your FACE

Well, at least it's not as derpy as EoSD Sakuya.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zoriri on May 25, 2013, 12:49:19 PM
I actually like Sakuya's new portrait...

She looks like she's holding a big ass lollipop
Really? It looks like a knife to me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 25, 2013, 12:54:05 PM
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/3532/knify.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zoriri on May 25, 2013, 12:58:24 PM
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/3532/knify.jpg)
...Dear god i need to get my eyes checked. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 25, 2013, 01:04:22 PM
That explains her extremely excited face.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: monhan on May 25, 2013, 01:56:58 PM
I thought it was a frying pan or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 25, 2013, 02:09:07 PM
That explains her extremely excited face.

Exactly what I was thinking. Not only is she pumped about the lollipop, in her excitement, her fingers exploded.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: fondue on May 25, 2013, 02:20:12 PM
suck too hard on your lollipop and loves gonna get you down
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 25, 2013, 04:02:03 PM
Exactly what I was thinking. Not only is she pumped about the lollipop, in her excitement, her fingers exploded.

I've been cracking up this whole Sakuya's fingers discussion, but this particular post made me laugh wayy too much for my own good.

So her shot type will be curving knives, lollipops and ustensils.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Gray21oh on May 25, 2013, 04:22:37 PM
I bet that lollipop tastes like table.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: 7TC7 on May 25, 2013, 04:22:58 PM
Okay, I just had an interesting idea about ZUNs "Will the three oppose their own weapons or abandon them?".

It could very well be implemented in a similar fashion as the Youkai/Human-Meter in Imperishable Night. There could be a Weapon-used/No-weapon-used-Meter which moves left to right depending on if you are killing things unfocused (no weapon) or focused (weapon). This is backed up by Marisa's Weapon Select Screen, where her unfocused shot is Illusion Laser and her focused shot is the Hakkero Flame Thrower. Using a bomb could have the Meter shoot far into the Weapon-used side of the meter.
This would open different possibilities for what having used your corrupted weapon a lot could lead to (probably bad things) as opposed to playing mostly unfocused which could lead to good things like Imperishable Nights Last Spells.

I know there are no signs of any meters or a numeral presentation of any gimmick on the screenshots from the blog and therefore I think this will not be how things are going to be handled... BUT ZUN mentions in his blog post, that the screenshots are still off a work in progress and therefore it could very well be that they could still be added until the demo is released tomorrow. Alternatively the score screen at the end of each stage could show how much you used your weapon.
The game IS going back to it's basics but it still would be the first time since... Embodiment of Scarlet Devil?... that there are no signs of any score mechanics on the screen.

Obviously that's all just last day speculation.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 25, 2013, 04:35:27 PM
... How about no?  :colbert:
THe way that thing is presetented really does sound like decidion made int he beggining of the game (a.k.a. slecting shot type). Though concering how that would effect the story, how about the shot type will change the boss of,s ay, stage 5? Like, the person behind the weapon possession is not the one respondible of the youkai outbreak, but the heroines meet up before finding fugitive. If they use "weapon" shot type, they would fight her. However, if they would use "weaponless" shot type, they would have to fight their possessed weapon manifesting their user's form.
But eh, we don't have lot of time to make theories before the demo comes out, so I guess its better to make them now or else.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 25, 2013, 04:37:54 PM
Trickster Sakuya...?

/me sagenod

In any case, ZUNart will be ZUNart somehow - at least once every game he does the art for something funky will crop up. it's always been my opinion that the character portraits are simply low priority in comparison to gameplay and music, which is what they're mostly about, especially the latter (remember, ZUN's creative process involves building the stages around the tunes BV).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 25, 2013, 04:47:49 PM
Aw yes... ZUN's art is weird sometimes. I remember Sakuya and Youmu from PCB, Wriggle, Mystia, Kaguya and Yukari from IN (IN's Yukari was really weird for me), Cirno from PoFV, Shou from UFO (yes, she was weird for me), Yoshika from TD and now Sakuya and her too-much-kniving hands and fingers.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hinacle on May 25, 2013, 04:49:51 PM
Aw yes... ZUN's art is weird sometimes. I remember Sakuya and Youmu from PCB, Wriggle, Mystia, Kaguya and Yukari from IN (IN's Yukari was really weird for me), Cirno from PoFV, Shou from UFO (yes, she was weird for me), Yoshika from TD and now Sakuya and her too-much-kniving hands and fingers.

...Am I the only one that wants Zun to release a "How to draw ZunArt" instruction book?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 25, 2013, 05:03:04 PM
...Am I the only one that wants Zun to release a "How to draw ZunArt" instruction book?
Let me explain how ZUN makes characters.
-Draw a girl with a dress.
-Add weird details and lots of ties to the dress.
-Give the girl a weird hat.
-Paint the girl.
-Give her a japanese name and japanese surname
-Give her an strange ability.
-???
-PROFIT!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 25, 2013, 05:08:55 PM
You're getting my hopes up. The heavy distinction between focusing and unfocusing could easily be seen as a "retro" thing (along with variable spell bonuses) if you look a bit past EoSD. Maybe PCB and IN are what ZUN has in mind when he says he's going retro. But then he's hinted that it will be simpler, so I dunno. (I've got my fingers crossed for super complex mechanics!)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 25, 2013, 09:15:32 PM
General Reitaisai 10 question, sorry for the offtopic: Does anybody know if there is going to be any organisation live feeding or any form?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 25, 2013, 09:30:35 PM
Good question. I believe we're three and a half hours away from the opening of the gates - would be nice if something got set up.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 25, 2013, 09:51:55 PM
imaginary_number6 on IRC #SM says that there are some user live feeds sound only, but nothing of interest yet.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Star King on May 25, 2013, 09:53:19 PM
...Am I the only one that wants Zun to release a "How to draw ZunArt" instruction book?

(http://archive.thedarkcave.org/foolfuuka/boards/po/image/1343/26/1343266467760.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 25, 2013, 10:33:52 PM
It's obvious as to who the culprit will be. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OeHgrf5z4C0#t=342s)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: sidedishes on May 25, 2013, 10:43:36 PM
General Reitaisai 10 question, sorry for the offtopic: Does anybody know if there is going to be any organisation live feeding or any form?
I found this page [REDACTED] that says it will start streaming around the time Reitaisai begins. I don't think it specifies specifically if it's covering the event or just the game releases.

<Tengukami> That site is touting direct download links for both games, and as such, is piracy and not at all OK for posting on this forum. Thanks for understanding.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 01:37:09 AM
What if Mima's the culprit, but her backstory got retconned to that of a super-poltergeist/spirit that was so powerful in its object manipulating powers it got sealed away until HRtP and decided to lay low until now?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 01:38:27 AM
Mima is dead, son.

Dead.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Messiah on May 26, 2013, 01:41:10 AM
Mima is dead, son.

Dead.

It's not like death stopped anyone in Gensokyo from doing anything, though :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
What if Mima wants you to think that, eh?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 01:46:13 AM
Mima is dead, son.

Dead.

Took me a while to get this one :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Black Mage on May 26, 2013, 01:49:52 AM
No new info yet?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 01:53:36 AM
No new info yet?

Liquid Ocelot confirmed for final boss. He used Guns of the Patriots to gain control of all weapons in Gensokyo.
In other news, it's been confirmed that I'm insane.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Black Mage on May 26, 2013, 01:56:03 AM
Liquid Ocelot confirmed for final boss. He used Guns of the Patriots to gain control of all weapons in Gensokyo.
In other news, it's been confirmed that I'm insane.
Cheers.

I'm sorry, but I see no Mima in your comments, so it must be true.

Anyway, I thought there'd be a stream by now.

Do they have a specific schedule for when to start selling the games?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 26, 2013, 01:57:42 AM
I'm sorry, but I see no Mima in your comments, so it must be true.

I think you made a typo; That's not how you spell false.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 02:00:42 AM
Looks like someone on 2ch got it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 26, 2013, 02:02:05 AM
Looks like someone on 2ch got it.
Now it's only a matter of time :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drayen on May 26, 2013, 02:50:44 AM
Looks like someone on 2ch got it.

If you got links to picts/vids feel free to share :O
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 02:54:55 AM
Got these from my friend
Code: [Select]
http://jan.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369536365978.jpg
Code: [Select]
http://apr.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369536581875.jpg
Code: [Select]
http://sep.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369536705790.jpg
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Lukesky180 on May 26, 2013, 02:56:59 AM
Got these from my friend
Code: [Select]
http://jan.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369536365978.jpg
Code: [Select]
http://apr.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369536581875.jpg
Code: [Select]
http://sep.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369536705790.jpg
Dat Cirno.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Ikari on May 26, 2013, 02:58:18 AM
Oh god that in-game sprite.

Urgh.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 02:59:06 AM
Dat Cirno.

Oh god that in-game sprite.

Urgh.

Imagine her portrait!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 26, 2013, 02:59:26 AM
Cirno, what happened to you?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:00:26 AM
Please let that sprite be fake D:  Zun's done a good job otherwise
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:05:09 AM
What's wrong with the sprite?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:07:27 AM
What's wrong with the sprite?
It just doesn't look right to me.  Eh, then again it is Zun.  Oh well.  Any other character reports?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Jana on May 26, 2013, 03:07:57 AM
It does look really out of place/fake, but you never know with ZUN...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 26, 2013, 03:08:20 AM
What's wrong with the sprite?

Everything.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 03:10:56 AM
It just doesn't look right to me.  Eh, then again it is Zun.  Oh well.  Any other character reports?
It looks upscaled like fuck.

There's a
mermaid
Code: [Select]
http://aug.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369537483247.jpgthanks zun I just spent the last hour polishing the legs of my template
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:11:48 AM
Everything.

Like what? Something out of proportion there? It's a sprite.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:12:45 AM
It looks upscaled like fuck.

There's a
mermaid
Code: [Select]
http://aug.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369537483247.jpgthanks zun I just spent the last hour polishing the legs of my template
Incoming PMMM jokes.  Calling it now
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 03:12:51 AM
Why is her sprite same as her portrait? Though cool to see some western monsters from ZUN, even if there are no seas in Gensokyo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 26, 2013, 03:13:57 AM
Welp, a mermaid's been confirmed. Maybe there might be something related to water after all in this game? Probably not, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 03:14:35 AM
It looks upscaled like fuck.

There's a
mermaid
Code: [Select]
http://aug.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369537483247.jpgthanks zun I just spent the last hour polishing the legs of my template

Wow.  Now I really want to know the context between this one. *waits warmly for those who know Japanese to translate*
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 26, 2013, 03:15:23 AM
Like what? Something out of proportion there? It's a sprite.

It just looks weird. The entire top half doesn't look right.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sparen on May 26, 2013, 03:18:07 AM
I can't wait to see what else comes out of the game~~~

[That tail scared me. I thought ZUN had photoshopped a dolphin tail on.]
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:19:42 AM
Welp, a mermaid's been confirmed.

And now I'm thinking of Cabin In The Woods (even if that was a merman) and wish I could stop laughing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 03:21:29 AM
Code: [Select]
http://apr.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369538100699.jpg
Code: [Select]
http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369537837745.jpg
... I think the cape looks retarded.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:22:55 AM
Question, is the mermaid stage 1 or 2, or not known?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 03:23:14 AM
Nothing new here. Just a better look at the cape girl.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:23:44 AM
By the way, I appreciate that you're posting links instead of just uploading the images. Not everyone wants to be spoiled.

I think I should also mention that /jp/ is full of piss and rage right now over this.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 03:23:59 AM
The first thing I thought when I saw that cape was "Did she mug Vincent Valentine for his duds?"
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Avakyon on May 26, 2013, 03:27:23 AM
Hmm, interested to know how that bonus works.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 03:27:30 AM
Me too.

Quote
ボス曲:柳の下のデュラハン
S2 boss is a Dullahan?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 03:29:44 AM
Welp, first fan art of the mermaid has appeared on Pixiv
It has Yuyuko in it
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 03:30:37 AM
mami mami mami mami
Code: [Select]
http://apr.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369538912507.jpg
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 03:31:20 AM
Yukkuris are now canon.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2013, 03:31:27 AM
Me too.
S2 boss is a Dullahan?
She's a rokurokubi, according to her title. I think. Headlessness seems to be her motif though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Black Mage on May 26, 2013, 03:31:45 AM
Me too.
S2 boss is a Dullahan?

You mean
the girl with the red cape?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:31:56 AM
mami mami mami mami
Code: [Select]
http://apr.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369538912507.jpg
It's official then, Zun wants more PMMM/Touhou art
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 26, 2013, 03:36:20 AM
Talk about
using your head.

New girl designs are pretty neat so far.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 03:37:00 AM
Code: [Select]
http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539279521.jpgSeems pretty Western in here so far.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 03:37:47 AM
Well she looks pretty elegant.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 03:37:56 AM
I love how the golden figure from that image in the Twitter status thread appears in the game.
I still believe that Liquid Ocelot will be the culprit.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MewMewHeart on May 26, 2013, 03:38:48 AM
Code: [Select]
http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539279521.jpgSeems pretty Western in here so far.
Nekomata or Neko Vampire O.o
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 26, 2013, 03:38:59 AM
She looks like the offspring if Mima mated with Orin. And that's not a bad thing.  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 03:40:25 AM
Probably a wolf
Code: [Select]
http://sep.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539344788.jpg>the bamboo
ZUN is a lazy bastard
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:41:19 AM
got a name on this one:
Code: [Select]
http://jan.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539536538.jpg
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:43:33 AM
Code: [Select]
http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539279521.jpgSeems pretty Western in here so far.
Yeah, so did EoSD. Probably more so. Maybe this is what he meant about getting back to his roots?

Probably a wolf
Code: [Select]
http://sep.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539344788.jpg
Holy crap, she is gorgeous!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2013, 03:45:43 AM
got a name on this one:
Code: [Select]
http://jan.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539536538.jpg
So she's a werewolf? Her title says "loup-garou" and her name has the kanji for wolf in it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:47:10 AM
Now Momiji will finally have someone who can relate to her.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 26, 2013, 03:48:12 AM

>the bamboo
ZUN is a lazy bastard

Lol the first thing I saw, but I can't really get mad since ZUN copy and pasted the Moriya Shrine in SA and made edits to it. They should've put Moku instead. Now I'm wondering who will be the Extra boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 03:48:23 AM
I wonder what is up with that web pattern on the bottom her dress. Maybe she's a widow?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 03:48:28 AM
Okay, the second I looked at her picture after finding out she's a wolf, I immediately thought of Little Red Riding Hood, what with her clothing color scheme.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Giratina93 on May 26, 2013, 03:48:45 AM
Now Momiji will finally have someone who can relate to her.

Cue rush of fanart pairing the two up with jealous Aya in the background in 3...2...

Nice to see a werewolf get introduced in the series. Now Kiene will also have some werebeast company :P
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 26, 2013, 03:48:54 AM
Let's see... a mermaid, a youkai that acts like a dullahan but technically isn't, and a werewolf? Western or western-ish monster girls seems to be the theme of this game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2013, 03:50:42 AM
Let's see... a mermaid, a youkai that acts like a dullahan but technically isn't, and a werewolf? Western or western-ish monster girls seems to be the theme of this game.
Mermaids have their own Japanese tradition, but yeah, it seems to be going for "classic monsters that everyone knows".
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:51:45 AM
Some fan art of the mermaid girl has been popping up on tumblr.  Nothing spectacular though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 03:56:18 AM
Liking at least two of these characters based on their designs alone. Of course all the other little factors - gameplay, danmaku patterns, shot types, music, etc. - will have to get factored in later, but the mermaid and the werewolf? Not a bad start.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: iospace on May 26, 2013, 03:57:31 AM
Liking at least two of these characters based on their designs alone. Of course all the other little factors - gameplay, danmaku patterns, shot types, music, etc. - will have to get factored in later, but the mermaid and the werewolf? Not a bad start.
Just when you think Zun has exhausted the bank of mythical creatures, he finds more eh?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 04:01:36 AM
Okay, spectulation time:
Since the first three bosses are base on western/European monsters none a less (cape girl is argueable), I am guessing that the reason why the youkai outbreak happened is not because they hav been growing restless, but because new youkais are starting to pop up and they don't know what to do other than cause an amok.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 26, 2013, 04:01:49 AM
Maybe a Frankenstein's monster type of Touhou will show up too? I do believe that someone's win quote from one of the fighting games lampshades whether they'll see Frankenstein and the Wolfman after beating up Remilia...

Okay, spectulation time:
Since the first three bosses are base on western/European monsters none a less (cape girl is argueable), I am guessing that the reason why the youkai outbreak happened is not because they hav been growing restless, but because new youkais are starting to pop up and they don't know what to do other than cause an amok.

Isn't that similar to what happened prior to or during EoSD, which was when the Spell Card system was first put into use, a.k.a. the beginning of the Windows era?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: snowflake247 on May 26, 2013, 04:04:41 AM
Let's see... a mermaid, a youkai that acts like a dullahan but technically isn't, and a werewolf? Western or western-ish monster girls seems to be the theme of this game.
Well, ZUN is now recognizing the Western fanbase, what with him going to be a guest at AWA and all...
omg omg what if the games are gonna get released in the usa
unlikely i know
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 04:08:49 AM
A Frankengirl wouldn't surprise me. Maybe even another vampire! That'd be some exciting competition for Remilia, not to mention the ahem fanart that would arise.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 04:11:11 AM
The extra stage boss will be ana ngel. I still want my Christian Touhou and The Last Corner doesn't count. Though demon/devil character can do just fine.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 04:12:45 AM
I get my fill of Christianity in my day-to-day life, thanks. I'll be OK without any 2hus For Jesus.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 26, 2013, 04:13:35 AM
Kagerou's given name translates roughly into Shadow Wolf.

Talk about Awesome McCoolname.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 26, 2013, 04:14:02 AM
Maybe a Frankenstein's monster type of Touhou will show up too?
Yes please. A girl who takes her head off already has me doing cartwheels.

No Christianity or I'll explode out of pure rage.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Star King on May 26, 2013, 04:14:31 AM
The extra stage boss will be ana ngel. I still want my Christian Touhou and The Last Corner doesn't count. Though demon/devil character can do just fine.

A Christian/Jewish/Muslim character will never happen sorry buddy
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Jana on May 26, 2013, 04:14:40 AM
2hus For Jesus.

I kind of feel like any Christian Touhou character would be dismissed as a crackpot by everyone else. Either way, Christianity is a very small minority in Japan, so I can't see it happening.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 04:15:30 AM
Kagerou's given name translates roughly into Shadow Wolf.

Talk about Awesome McCoolname.

Sure is.  Now I have this hilarious mental image of her as an assassin.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Amraphenson on May 26, 2013, 04:15:44 AM
ZUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 26, 2013, 04:22:03 AM
Are you cursing him or calling out his name in ecstasy, Amra?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 26, 2013, 04:26:41 AM
Time to overanalyze what I can see of the gameplay mechanics from a few screenshots...
Code: [Select]
http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539279521.jpg
Is that a 13,000,000 initial spell bonus, on what's apparently a stage 2 boss? That's the highest since IN. It seems ZUN might be overcompensating for TD's broken scoring system. Not that that's a bad thing by any means.

And there's also an unknown bonus, in that and a few other screenshots. It seems rather small by Touhou bonus standards. Perhaps that relates to why the point item value is higher than the UFO/TD default 10 per graze... related to that, there also seems to be a lot of graze for stage 2 3(?) of a (presumably) casual playthrough... do we have another SA regarding bullet density?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 26, 2013, 04:31:22 AM
Code: [Select]
http://apr.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369538100699.jpg
Auron, is that you?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Avakyon on May 26, 2013, 04:37:44 AM
Code: [Select]
http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369539279521.jpg
Code: [Select]
http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1369537837745.jpg
I wonder what the differing placement on the bonuses are about. I first thought it was the bullet cancels returning to the older days but now I'm not sure. Seems more like UFO multipliers, so something must have happened in those particular places.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 26, 2013, 04:43:52 AM
BTW, has anyone translated the character titles yet?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 26, 2013, 04:45:29 AM
Note that green triangle over the bonus with the wolf girl. And it's a star with dullahan.

And wow, I didn't notice that huge spell bonus.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Cadmas on May 26, 2013, 04:51:30 AM
Okay, spectulation time:
Since the first three bosses are base on western/European monsters none a less (cape girl is argueable),

So far someone on tumblr has called Sekibanki a dullahan.

The headless jokes are flooding in now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kazami on May 26, 2013, 04:54:54 AM
The Dullahan is a headless rider, usually seen on a black horse and carries his own head under one arm. The head's eyes are small, black, and constantly dart about like flies, while the mouth is constantly in a hideous grin that touches both sides of the head. The flesh of the head is said to have the color and consistency of moldy cheese. The Dullahan's whip is actually the spine of a human corpse, and the wagons they sometimes use are made of similarly funereal objects (e.g. candles in skulls to light the way, the spokes of the wheels made from thigh bones, the wagon's covering made from a worm-chewn pall). When the dullahan stops riding, it is where a person is due to die. The dullahan calls out their name, at which point they immediately perish.

There is no way to bar the road against a dullahan ? all locks and gates open on their own when it approaches. Also, they do not appreciate being watched while on their errands, throwing a basin of blood on those who dare to do so (often a mark that they are among the next to die), or even lashing out the watchers' eyes with their whips. Nonetheless, they are frightened of gold, and even a single gold pin can drive a dullahan away.

Well, Sekibanki has the headless theme...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Sandwich of Doom on May 26, 2013, 04:56:14 AM
BTW, has anyone translated the character titles yet?

There you go, with transcriptions:

淡水に棲む人魚
Fresh Water Mermaid
Wakasagihime

ろくろ首の怪奇
Rokurokubi's Strangeness
Sekibanki

竹林のルーガルー
Bamboo Grove's Loup-Garou
Imaizumi Kagerou

Feel free to find better translations, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 04:56:21 AM
Quote
omake.txt quick translation:

Hakurei Reimu

The usual miko from the hakurei shrine.

Her oharai-bou ("exorcism stick"), formally known as a oonusa has started to exorcise demons on it's own lately but it has problems keeping up with them. So she holds unto it until she is close and throws it at her enemies. It feels like she is being used by the oharai-bou so it leaves her unsatisfied, however..

Kirisame Marisa

The normal witch who likes to collect stuff.

Lately her mini-hakkero has begun to emit flames on its own so she keeps it outside her house. The forest of magic is very damp so there doesn't seem to be a danger of starting a forest fire...

Izayoi Sakuya

The maid who lives in the scarlet devil mansion.

Recently, she has found knives that will fly towards her enemies on there own. Since it's so much easier than throwing them herself, she enjoys using them. At that time, she hears rumors that youkai are running wild near the misty lake, and heads out to try her new daggers.

Frickin' murderous Sakuya
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 05:00:50 AM
So the reason why Sakuya is part of this is due of sadistic reasons?
And silly Reimu, you cannot simply throw sticks at your oppoennts. You have your Yin Yang Ball for it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 05:02:04 AM
Why does Marisa's description not surprise me as something she would do?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 05:06:15 AM
my weapons are moving on their own
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Cadmas on May 26, 2013, 05:06:49 AM
Marisa's actions are libel to summon smokey the bear to Gensokyo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 05:08:13 AM
Why, hello there, Yuuka. I didn't know that you had a disguise as a maid...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Stuffman on May 26, 2013, 05:11:27 AM
Don't be silly, Sakuya was always murderous.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 05:12:02 AM
Marisa's actions are libel to summon smokey the bear to Gensokyo.

Either him or his equally environmentally conscious daughter.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 26, 2013, 05:21:42 AM
The extra stage boss will be an angel. I still want my Christian Touhou and The Last Corner doesn't count. Though demon/devil character can do just fine.

I hope so, my predictions.

When the Christian Angel was defeated, she is telling the Heroine to prepare for the incoming youkai/demon storm incoming.
then this is the preview of TH15 (TH15 will represent Satanism and Zionism, i guess so.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 05:26:11 AM
I hope so, my predictions.

When the Christian Angel was defeated, she is telling the Heroine to prepare for the incoming youkai/demon storm incoming.
then this is the preview of TH15 (TH15 will represent Satanism and Zionism, i guess so.)

What about Scientology and Pastafarianism?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tiamat on May 26, 2013, 05:26:40 AM
Don't be silly, Sakuya was always murderous.

Not sure if serious or not, but this is true. Throughout various Touhou games, Sakuya constantly makes remarks about beating up things to let off steam, etc.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: WHMZakeri on May 26, 2013, 05:28:59 AM
I feel like I have an evil twin.

Regardless, I absolutely love Sakuya's reasoning. It turned out to be completely opposite what I had expected.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Cadmas on May 26, 2013, 05:32:19 AM
What about Scientology and Pastafarianism?

I'd be down for a moe Xenu and pasta girl.

http://donmai.us/posts/1082406 (Standard danboo warning)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 05:33:27 AM
Anyone down for translating this? It's apparently a reveal of Sakuya's backstory that confirms a certain notorious fan theory.
(http://i.imgur.com/YZnPwtP.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 05:33:44 AM
I'd be down for a moe Xenu and pasta girl.

http://donmai.us/posts/1082406 (Standard danboo warning)

Brilliant. Simply brilliant.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Avakyon on May 26, 2013, 05:34:01 AM
http://sp.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20961599?cp_in=wt_srch DDC Lunatic

Looks like value increases from cancels.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 05:41:09 AM
Awesome, watching it right now
Game looks kinda easy.
What exactly does the ring of bubbles do?

Stage 1 music sounds so-so. Fuck the guitar, though.
Sekibanki's theme just made my dick explode.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 05:42:55 AM
Looks easier to get bombs than lives, but I'd have to actually get to know the system to see if its just this particular run or all the time.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Avakyon on May 26, 2013, 05:45:33 AM
Oh that wolf howling, so good this character!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zakari on May 26, 2013, 05:49:42 AM
That Wolf girl`s theme sounds like the remix version of U.N. Owen was her.


i think all TH14 cast were western characters.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: WHMZakeri on May 26, 2013, 05:50:53 AM
Oh my ZUN, the bamboo forest stage has Retribution for an Eternal Night mixed into it.
This is for me the same level of hype as when Yuyuko was introduced in TD.

The Stage 3 Boss theme seems to be inspired from the Tengu's general themes (half a line from Wind God Girl, and another from Fall of Falls).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 05:51:04 AM
The intro sounds like Heian Alien.

Hmm ... I'm not too fond of half of the werewolf's attacks. Those were lifted straight from Stage 1.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 05:51:39 AM
It is ust me, or is Kagerou one of few (or only) characters who straight out tries to ram into you?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 05:53:21 AM
The last time I saw that many ramming attacks I was watching a Double Spoiler LP.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 26, 2013, 05:53:35 AM
Kagerou is BALLER AS SHIT.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Hinacle on May 26, 2013, 05:57:38 AM
Quote
Princess Wakasagi
Mermaid
Ability: Her power increases when she is in the water.

She is a gently freshwater mermaid. She is a docile youkai that spends her time singing songs and picking up rocks. She bears no hostility towards humans.

Such a gentle youkai has suddenly begun to have thoughts of taking power from those above her. What could have caused such a change in her mental state?

Sekibanki
Rokurokubi
Ability: Her head can fly seperate from her body.

A youkai that lives in the human village. Her head can separate from her body, which is very convenient.

She is somewhat prideful, and does not open her heart to humans or youkai. It seems like she is always on guard.

This summer the religionists went on a rampage, but even as the humans and youkai got excited she could only look on disapprovingly at the craze as she lived a quiet life alone.

But this time, for some reason she got violent.

Not my TLs
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: DSveno on May 26, 2013, 05:59:18 AM
The BGM sounds really strong this time. So far I love that Dullahan girl. At least there is someone using their head for once in battle, lol.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 06:00:18 AM
I'm just happy Sakuya's true Lunarian origins have been confirmed. This opens up all new possibilities.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Genso on May 26, 2013, 06:02:22 AM
I really love the music in this and the characters as well~~~. I HNNNNNG'ed so hard when I saw Kagerou. Though the game seems a whole lot easier to me. Just hoping to play soon.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kingault on May 26, 2013, 06:03:13 AM
I'm just happy Sakuya's true Lunarian origins have been confirmed. This opens up all new possibilities.

Huh?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: teefa85 on May 26, 2013, 06:04:07 AM
All of them look very cool.  Though Kagerou would be my favorite since I love wolves a lot.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 06:06:07 AM
Huh?
Apparently relates to the text I posted, but haven't seen any complete translations yet. I'm not really interested in watching a gameplay video and spoiling pretty much every surprise, but this story interests me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2013, 06:07:00 AM
Huh?
The picture of Japanese text he linked earlier has a small line at the bottom about her having Lunarian blood. It's kinda ridiculously easy to fake plain text though, and the rest of it is pretty generic, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's a hoax. Withholding judgment for now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Stuffman on May 26, 2013, 06:09:33 AM
Rumor has it that someone once asked ZUN what the deal with Sakuya was while he was drunk, and he said she was half Lunarian.

If this is a confirmation, it looks like she has Lunarian blood but isn't actually from the moon.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Arcorann on May 26, 2013, 06:14:14 AM
Anyone down for translating this? It's apparently a reveal of Sakuya's backstory that confirms a certain notorious fan theory.
(http://i.imgur.com/YZnPwtP.png)

It's fake (I've seen the probable real one, it's on the wiki now). Still, it seems like something that would be worth translating, if only for curiosity.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Suikama on May 26, 2013, 06:15:25 AM
that stage 2 boss...

yukkuris are canon now?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 06:16:17 AM
It's fake (I've seen the probable real one, it's on the wiki now). Still, it seems like something that would be worth translating, if only for curiosity.

Is it? Ah, well that was fun while it lasted anyway!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 06:17:57 AM
yukkuris are canon now?
I already said that!
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2013, 06:18:33 AM
She shoots her head at you because she's one of those headless youkai.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Aeteas on May 26, 2013, 06:43:14 AM
So it seems that Sakuya's bomb is like the Marisa C bomb from SA, except it clears nearby bullets and has a period of invincibility at the beginning. If your hit while the bomb is active, it clears the screen. If you survive the duration, you get 3/8 of a bomb.

I don't understand the rest of the mechanics though, like what causes the life and bomb items to drop during the stage.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2013, 06:48:45 AM
So it seems that Sakuya's bomb is like the Marisa C bomb from SA, except it clears nearby bullets and has a period of invincibility at the beginning. If your hit while the bomb is active, it clears the screen. If you survive the duration, you get 3/8 of a bomb.

I don't understand the rest of the mechanics though, like what causes the life and bomb items to drop during the stage.
It happens whenever you collect a bunch of point items at once (by going to the top half of the screen). Not sure of the details though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 26, 2013, 06:50:24 AM
There seems to be some kind of item chaining system. When a lot of items are auto-collected in a short time, effects happen, such as some kind of multiplier (UFO-style value increase?), and the appearance of a bomb part. Or sometimes a life part. Not sure what determines the exact reward. It may relate to the quantity of items collected.

The starting number of bombs has returned to 3. You also get a free bomb part after every boss phase, like with SA's life parts, complete with it not appearing if you die on that phase, I think. Plus an additional bomb/life part after spellcards because of the point items the boss drops.

Bombs auto-collect items again like in LLS-MoF (seems to preserve maximum value like UFO/TD auto-collect, but it's hard to tell). It seems they also can trigger chains, allowing for the possibility of bombing for life parts. The bomb seems quite short, more like a border break, with no Sakuya-specific details, so it may be the same for all characters like in MoF (edit: actually, as several others are saying, it seems to function like SA MarisaC's bomb with an extra screen clear, giving you 3/8 of a bomb back if you don't break the border, not sure how I missed that). It's also used as the death wave. (Dying is the same as in UFO otherwise, -1.00 power, with .07 scattered.)

Canceled bullet value is quite high compared to SA/UFO/TD, though still lower than MoF. It seems to be the primary method of increasing PIV (though that might just be because the player isn't actively scoring).

On the topic of PIV, it seems to only start at 10,000, instead of 20,000 on Lunatic like in UFO/TD.

Spell bonuses are 9m/12m/15m in the video, and 13m for Hard stage 3 in the earlier screenshot. Tentative formula = (3 * stage number + 2 * difficulty value) * 1 million. Definitely more emphasis on spell bonuses here. Also stage clear bonuses have been increased: stage number * 3 million. Still not that high.

Oh, and that shot type is SakuyaA. It's visible when the player saved a replay at the end.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Star King on May 26, 2013, 06:51:56 AM
So it seems that Sakuya's bomb is like the Marisa C bomb from SA, except it clears nearby bullets and has a period of invincibility at the beginning. If your hit while the bomb is active, it clears the screen. If you survive the duration, you get 3/8 of a bomb.

3/5ths I think

Seems kinda OP tbh, SA MarisaC but with 2 clears instead of 1 (yes I know you can deathbomb for 2 with SA MarisaC, that's not as easy though and you're still getting .6 of your bomb back instead of .5, with no negative effect on your power this time)

The bomb seems quite short, more like a border break, with no Sakuya-specific details, so it may be the same for all characters like in MoF. It's also used as the death wave. (Dying is the same otherwise, -1.00 power, with .07 scattered.)

Don't think so. Marisa apparently has a Dark Spark, remember?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 06:53:13 AM

I guess this is also part of what ZUN meant by a return to older models. I like what I'm reading.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2013, 06:54:33 AM
The bomb seems quite short, more like a border break, with no Sakuya-specific details, so it may be the same for all characters like in MoF. It's also used as the death wave. (Dying is the same otherwise, -1.00 power, with .07 scattered.)
It was pretty obvious to me that her bomb was imitating MarisaC from SA (Nitori's shield) so it only looked short because of what it is. We know from earlier screenshots that Marisa has Dark Spark, etc. I doubt the bombs are like MoF.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zil on May 26, 2013, 07:02:44 AM
The boss's bullets seem to be spawning at the far ends of those lines, rather than near her. I'm suspecting that they might actually be stationary bullets that gradually appear farther away, like Wriggle's "Comet on Earth." Then they burn up like fuses.
Called it. BV

Well, looks pretty cool, though I didn't gather much about the mechanics just from watching it. Thanks for the analysis Karisa.

And I love that stage 2 boss. Cute as hell.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 26, 2013, 07:07:10 AM
All I will say about DDC:

Get off of my browser and onto my desktop! o-o Holy crap this game looks fun and I can't wait to get my hands on the demo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Karisa on May 26, 2013, 07:52:15 AM
I've updated that game mechanic analysis a bit from re-watching the video, for anyone who already read it before the edits.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 07:56:51 AM
Does Kagerou have a bio and has some one translated it or working on it?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 26, 2013, 07:59:32 AM
Kagerou doesn't have infinite ribbons on her dress and I don't see any silly hat.

And Cirno's design is... Ungh... Wierd.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 26, 2013, 08:01:17 AM
The earlier link of Cirno seems to be broken. Anyone got a working one so I can see how horrid it is, exactly?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: trancehime on May 26, 2013, 08:07:59 AM
Kagerou doesn't have infinite ribbons on her dress and I don't see any silly hat.

But she is definitely pretty, so I don't have any problems with this. A subdued design is refreshing in such a cast like Touhou's, lol
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 26, 2013, 08:19:00 AM
Plus, it's not like it's the first time we don't have a Touhou character without anything on the head.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Rei Scarlette on May 26, 2013, 08:23:13 AM
Plus, it's not like it's the first time we don't have a Touhou character without anything on the head.

Right, that goes back as far as Koakuma (if you don't count headwings) or Kaguya (if you want absolutely nothing on the head)

I'm only thinking of windows characters, so sorry if I forgot a PC-98 or unnamed person. :derp:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: game2011 on May 26, 2013, 08:25:24 AM
Right, that goes back as far as Koakuma (if you don't count headwings) or Kaguya (if you want absolutely nothing on the head)

I'm only thinking of windows characters, so sorry if I forgot a PC-98 or unnamed person. :derp:
Yumemi is the first named character/humanoid without something on her head.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: ToyoRai on May 26, 2013, 08:27:15 AM
Also, Wakasagi is the only character with non-human body parts what aren't "add-ons" (Like animal ears, horns, tails, wings). Another trivia, Kagerou is currently only character in TvTropes' Touhou Character Sheet with portait drawn by ZUN 8and only one of DDC cast to have one).
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Rei Scarlette on May 26, 2013, 08:33:07 AM
Ah, I see. I'm not all that familiar with the PC-98 characters, as I can't really play those games so I tend to forget a few, sadly.

So, "plain head"ness predates even the windows games. It certainly isn't "the usual" thing, but it's been done plenty times before. At this point I agree it's perfectly okay to not have a silly hat or ribbon or something~
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 26, 2013, 08:39:36 AM
Stage 1 and 2 have left pretty "meh" impressions but Sekibanki and Stage 3 were like YES PLEASE

HI THERE BAMBOO FOREST??? HI THERE IMPERISHABLE NIGHT TUNE??? UNF
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Mesarthim on May 26, 2013, 08:41:34 AM
So far my favorite theme seemed to be the main menu, or at least what little I heard of it in a video I saw.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 08:45:25 AM
None of those links in code boxes are valid. "NOT FOUND" etcetera.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 08:53:17 AM
DONE, AND DONE.

[nsfw]http://imageshack.us/a/img89/4596/waoo.jpg[/nsfw]

None of those links in code boxes are valid. "NOT FOUND" etcetera.
The threads expired.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Piranha on May 26, 2013, 08:57:27 AM
I like the designs for the new characters, totally surpassing my expectations.

And I still don't get what is wrong with Cirno (maybe she looks a tiny bit overexcited)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: OkashiiKisei on May 26, 2013, 09:01:06 AM
Quote
Stage 1 mid-boss
I think this is the very first time
Cirno
appeared barefoot in the actual series. All the other games and additional materials have her wearing socks. I always wondered why fans depicted her barefoot so often.

Quote
Stage 1 boss
So on a scale of 1 to 10, how big is Roukan's explosion going to be when he sees this?
Love the dress by the way~

Quote
Stage 2 boss
mfw (http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9069/patrickstare.jpg)
her head pops off
holy fuck
What's more unsettling is that some of her spellcards seem to symbolize
the fact Rokurokubi tended to have their entrails hang from their floating heads
. Brrr...
Also surprising how the speculative art was so close to the real deal. Fans have keen eyes.

Quote
Stage 3 boss
ohmygod
holyshit
Everything about this character is LOVE <3
Absolutely gorgeous dress, beautiful reddish hair, awesome spellcards, exotic species (for Touhou standards), intense boss-like theme,
badass mid-fight transformations
and dat
howl
.
Definite new addition to my favorites~
I'm going to be pleasantly surprised if any of the upcoming DDC characters can top this!

EDIT: Just now noticed she has long, crimson talons too.
+ 50 love points
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Drake on May 26, 2013, 09:03:30 AM
はいてないgj

So far my favorite theme seemed to be the main menu, or at least what little I heard of it in a video I saw.
He uses the same delicious guitars he used in NToJ in Wind of Agartha and Gathering the Mysterious Throughout Japan.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 09:10:59 AM
Please let the upcoming characters top this, because werewolf-san is instantly my favorite character as of just now.

Comments on game:

-The stage portions feature less "phases" of certain common patterns and more mish-mashes of everything at once, not to mention they're basically going to be short chaining sessions. Hope you're happy, CAVE dudes.

-My classification of ZUN songs in general is "weak as a one-off --> amazing as something you'll be hearing for the rest of your life however long you'll be playing the game". This is the opposite of what you'd expect from mainstream music, where there's rarely a tune that sticks with you in the long run. The music in this game (blame the guitars) bridges that gap somewhat, so I'm hoping it doesn't make the early stages downright annoying to play through in the future. That said werewolf-san's boss theme has an amazing base tune so I doubt that'll grow old. Werewolf-san <3

-The game looks easy. Maybe even stage 3's boss portion with some memo. I think the last spell got some inspiration from Chen's all-over-the-screen second spell in PCB. Scoring, I think, will be pretty interesting, though!

Edit: Unless the stage 2 boss's second spell has safety precautions a-la Kaguya's second spell, I'm pretty sure you can cheese it by staying in one of the top corners.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 26, 2013, 09:31:43 AM
PUPPY PUPPY PUPPY PUPPY PUPPY PUPPY. (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=35954216)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: CyberAngel on May 26, 2013, 09:33:02 AM
Youtube videos of the gameplay are available already. Wow. My thoughts:

- Shot types as in using/not using posessed weapons confirmed. Really interested how that will affect the story.
- All stages have water in the background, even bamboo forest. Did someone want water-themed game?
- There's lots of "dark matter" when bosses appear/charge. May that be the thing that drives the plot those youkai to be violent all of a sudden?
- Stage 2 ying-yang enemies remind me of SoEW spiders. Stage 3 boss has some Meira influences as well. Back to basics, you say?
- ZUN learned how to rock. Coupled with TD's trance, I see ZUN still improves as a composer. My respect.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: BT on May 26, 2013, 09:39:23 AM
Is there any video of gameplay w/ the other characters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzFj8sUwSHI - Normal modo for those interested. Still SakuyaA. Dammit people. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tsalop on May 26, 2013, 10:57:15 AM
Just played the game and I think it is much easier than TD...  It is funny how easily you can get bomb/life pieces.
Then again most likely the last few levels will be much harder so getting the pieces will be hard work.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: SacredWind on May 26, 2013, 11:11:55 AM
The game's gimmick (yes, it has a gimmick  :o) is, that when reaching POC, if you collect enough items, you get a bomb piece, and occasionally you also get a life piece, or something like that.

And I think it is a little harder than TD, but you get more lives than TD (or maybe i'm just bad at this game :P)
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 26, 2013, 11:13:51 AM
Just played the game and I think it is much easier than TD...  It is funny how easily you can get bomb/life pieces.
Then again most likely the last few levels will be much harder so getting the pieces will be hard work.
Aw yes, I saw the Lunatic playthrough and it looked really easy, even easier than TD...

PS, do you have to buy the demo or just download it? :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on May 26, 2013, 11:17:14 AM
OK just finished a run of the Normal demo, and here're my thoughts:

>Stage 1 mermaid yes yes yes yes yes
>Sekibanki was probably the hardest of the lot for me. Her last card in particular made me very sad :<
>Kagerou is an awesome new design and I already like her.

>Not sure, but my current theory on the PoC system is this - it measures how long you collect items for after crossing the PoC, and if you get past certain barriers it drops a bomb piece/life piece. From what I could tell the cutoff for bombs was 0.5s and the cutoff for lives was 2s, but don't hold me to this.

Something I'm going to mention since no-one seems to have noted it over at Touhouwiki: Characters' A/B routes have different dialogue. My theory on this is that the weapons are somehow messing with people's heads because at a cursory glance the A dialogue seems a bit more threatening than the B dialogue...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 26, 2013, 11:19:09 AM
Something I'm going to mention since no-one seems to have noted it over at Touhouwiki: Characters' A/B routes have different dialogue. My theory on this is that the weapons are somehow messing with people's heads because at a cursory glance the A dialogue seems a bit more threatening than the B dialogue...

Marisa stole the precious (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Gk4Ntcq5uNg) thing? :getdown:
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Kosachi on May 26, 2013, 11:22:24 AM
Does anybody know how to work the small bonus you get when you enter the PoC? Besides that, I really like the demo although it might be a tad too easy and I kinda don't fancy Sakuya's "Cursed" shot type.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Garlyle on May 26, 2013, 11:22:34 AM
Quote
The game's gimmick (yes, it has a gimmick  :o) is, that when reaching POC, if you collect enough items, you get a bomb piece, and occasionally you also get a life piece, or something like that.
It's based on how many items you collect at once when you trigger an auto-collect - a small amount gets you nothing, a moderate amount gets you a bomb piece, and a large amount gets you an extra life piece.  I think (though I could be wrong) it also gives you a bonus multiplier on points obtained (anything above "0.5" is a bomb piece, and I think "1.5" is the cutoff for life piece?  or "2.0" I really don't even)

The trick is that the pieces spawn a little late, so to guarantee collection you either hang out above them or have to catch them as they fall down.

Also fuck the stage 3 boss holy shit how do you even
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tsalop on May 26, 2013, 11:23:48 AM
Aw yes, I saw the Lunatic playthrough and it looked really easy, even easier than TD...
Other thing I noticed... Amount of the pieces needed for extend/bomb doesn't change so getting things is much easier.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Frog on May 26, 2013, 12:19:08 PM
The gimmick is neat in theory, but my god so many bombs, you dont even have to try and it just showers you with them.
they should probably scale up with difficulty, the current setting being about easy.

So marisa's hakkero unfocused is just 10d marisa, which i really disliked and the lack of penetrating lasers pretty much ruins it.
Sakuya's cursed knives are rather innefective too, but i gotta say they look really cool when youre placing them.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tsalop on May 26, 2013, 12:31:12 PM
Okay. I think I found a bug with Marisa A...
When in full power, one of the four lasers suddenly turned into a strange angle and ceased to harm fairies. After focusing the shot temporarily returned back to normal... In replay-mode this doesn't happen, but then again in the replay mode  I died four times in a spellcard that had history of 01/01...
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Zengeku on May 26, 2013, 12:39:13 PM
IIRC, the items needed for extends in Ten Desires were fixed at a low point in the demo of that game as well but that was changed for the full version. I suspect that ZUN will do the same here so getting extends will be much more difficult. I also found that I could get 7 lives and 8 bombs by the end of Stage 3 on Easy and Normal but on Lunatic I finished with 2 lives in stock having died two times meaning I was far away from those 7 lives. I suspect the reason for this is because Lunatic didn't let me PoC as easily.

In other words, if things continue like this and if ZUN changes the amounts of items needed for extra lives, it's gonna be hard to get extra lives in the full game on Lunatic.

Now that I'm here, I suppose a few of my own first impressions would be welcome.

I enjoy what has been done with the stages so far. They seem quite challenging to play, especially if you want to PoC a lot. These stages are a lot better than Ten Desires and I really hope that the progression of difficulty continues through Stages 4,5 and 6. If they don't, it's gonna be severely disappointing.

The bosses are pretty cool, though I'm not overly fond of the stage 2 boss. It looks a little bit too streamy and milky to me. Not exactly Kogasa or Kyouko tier unfortunately. Luckily, the stage 3 boss makes up for this by being really fun. Even the stage 1 boss is rather entertaining.

The music. I like it all ,except the stage 1 theme. That's a little mediocre imo but the rest of the songs are good i think. Artwork, i dunno. It's the same I guess, though Reimu's art is cute. I like it.

Score system seems to be about PoC'ing a lot and cancelling/grazing stuff to raise PiV. I don't get how the multiplier bonus thing works but I suspect it's about picking up a lot of items at once which has proven to give me bigger bonuses so far.

Overall, I think this is shaping up to be a pretty neat game. I hope that the full version doesn't end up disappointing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 12:40:24 PM
Quick music review:

Stage 1: Punk rock mermaid.
Stage 2: Am I listening to an early 80s New Wave band or ZUN?
Stage 3: OH YES.

Sakuya's knives do an interesting thing, too, through toggling focus. I like Reimu's boomerang gohei, but Marisa's flamethrower seems to be the most powerful here.

I agree the game seems pretty easy. I'm an Easy/Normal mode player, and giving this game a half-awake, half-hearted try on Normal with Sakuya gave me a pretty painless clear. Fun, but there weren't really white knuckle moments. Hoping the difficulty level ramps up. But goddamn is it fun to play.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Formless God on May 26, 2013, 12:57:51 PM
So far what I've been doing is wait for a shitton of enemies to come, then drop a bomb and gain mad skorez. I'm ... not exactly fond of this playstyle, yet.
The Stage 1 midboss's spell card is pretty bullshit. Boss's first spell is rather dense, and the final spell lasts forever if you don't have more than 1 power.
The Stage 2 midboss's spell card needs to be fixed. I captured that thing while standing still. Boss is good though, right up there with Kogasa.
Haven't got to Stage 3 yet.
I don't like any of the stages. Streams, streams everywhere.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 26, 2013, 12:59:59 PM
So, ZUN discovered the power of ROCK music. I'm okay with this.

The bosses all look pretty cool in my opinion, good job ZUN!

Also inb4 Mami jokes with Sekibanki. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Shizzo on May 26, 2013, 01:01:38 PM
Goodness, Stage 3's boss just wrecked me!  How the heck are you supposed to dodge all those explosions in her final spellcard when she's about to ram your face two seconds later?  Geez I gotta find a proper method to capture that thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 01:34:44 PM
Reimu's bomb made me laugh my ass off. I was reminded of Tom & Jerry, whenever the cat gets chased around the house with a broom, swatting left and right all around him.
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Unroyal Paladin on May 26, 2013, 01:38:50 PM
->I find it funny that bosses bleed power items if you do them unfocused. Kind of reward for risk type of thing, huh.
->The stage 1 theme's start reminded me of Bad Apple!! , (Edit: And another reminded me of Reincarnation!!!! MIMA IS BACK OMG- *shot*) , but I liked it nontheless.
-> Stages 2 and 3 totally remind me of Story of Eastern Wonderland - The Dullahan (forgot the name >.<) reminds me of Noroiko (SoEW stage 2 midboss) and Kagerou, as someone already said (I think) , of Meira (SoEW stage 2 boss). Personally, I love the referrence there with the final attack being like one of Meira's attacks.

If I'm not mistaken, it's every third time you do PoC with the bomb-limit number of items, instead of bomb fragment, it gives you a life fragment instead. Dem different sound effects  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Validon98 on May 26, 2013, 01:48:21 PM
Yeah, I noticed that if you get a PoC chain going you can get life fragments even with a smaller amount of items. Higher amounts just guarantee the life piece, I guess?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Tengukami on May 26, 2013, 02:01:03 PM
I absolutely love the fact that the game rewards you for going unfocused against bosses, and for bopping up over the PoC. If I'm not mistaken, it seems you lose a life and a bomb when you pichun, too, which probably makes up for the way this game shovels green stars at you.

If anyone figures out better how the PoC bonus works, please do share. This game is a lot of fun to play, and I'm for the first time considering trying for High Score runs over at HME. I mean hey, Easy Mode needs representation, too, right?
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: GuppyForce on May 26, 2013, 02:01:40 PM
Just a short summary of my first impressions:

Stages are pretty good. Quite interesting and much better than TD,
Boss Danmaku has some interesting patterns and is pretty fun, but nothing spectacular (wow factor) like Imperishable Night. I'd really like for ZUN to make more of the flowery grand patterns that kind of ended after UFO. Hopefully the later bosses contain some.
Graphics are great, though the new resolution means my laptop isn't wide enough :(.
Character designs are quite nice. I especially like the 3rd boss.
Music is quite disappointing though. It's nice to hear some of the leitmotifs from earlier games but the melody just doesn't really capture the feel of the game of give it an immersive atmophere in my opinion. TD was better in this aspect for the demo portion. Hopefully ZUN is saving up his ideas for later, it would be quite a letdown if the music continued around this standard (or became slightly worse overall as in TD)
Being someone who loves the Point of Collection, I am loving the life/bomb/score system

Overall: It's a good game and has quite a lot of potential, but isn't really promising anything spectacular at the moment.

@Zengeku: I might be wrong but I think it was the other way around with the demo being harder to get lives in?

EDIT: For some reason it seemed to lag on my computer the second time playing, though this might just be my laptop
Title: Re: 東方Project 第14弾の情報です - Double Dealing Character
Post by: Helepolis on May 26, 2013, 02:05:41 PM
As similar for the 13.5 thread, please continue here.

http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14817.msg978639.html#msg978639