東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion

[Cadmas]

Mima

/prepares the hateshield

Well I guess she won't need legs for this game.

[chema1994]

Well I guess she won't need legs for this game.

Legs are OP nerf plz
All we know that the aerial combat system its just for including Mima ingame

[Tengukami]

[Vyrien]

Tengumaki why. My dreams...

[trancehime]

don't make me punch you...

[Desu_Cake]

Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.

[game2011]

Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.

That's going to annoy the people who wants her back morei f you
I think that's going to annoy the people who wants her back more.

[nintendonut888]

Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.

aheartfeltreunion.jpg

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

don't make me punch you...

I can punch him in your place, if that's the case.

[Vyrien]

Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.

I wouldn't mind. It's more that I want a couple of extra nods to PC-98 canon. I would be equally as happy with Shinki or another prolific PC-98 character returning.

Before the thread turns into a pro/anti Mima's return argument again I have to say that I absolutely love the art style in the game.

[chema1994]

Liked the picture btw but the text is evil
At least we can have some Mima in doujins

aheartfeltreunion.jpg

ZUN didn't troll us!!!! Mima was in TD after all hahahahhahahhaha

[Tengukami]

Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.

Yes. This would troll both sides equally. Especially if, as Donut's shot suggests, it's disputable whether or not it's even her.

[Lunasa Prismriver]

Talking about PC-98 characters, I would like to see Sariel as she's an Angel.
ZUN could also troll us and put the unnamed christian girl from Dolls in Pseudo Paradise's cover.  :3

[Kilgamayan]

Man, I knew I should have posted my "TEN DESIRES APPEARANCES: ZERO" picture right after I saw that macro.

[Savory]

ZUN didn't troll us!!!! Mima was in TD after all hahahahhahahhaha

-groan-

I know you meant that as a joke but that "ZUN is trolling" gag really annoys me....

[AnonymousPondScum]

-groan-

I know you meant that as a joke but that "ZUN is trolling" gag really annoys me....

I really don't get why people think he would be above it, is the thing.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

I really don't get why people think he would be above it, is the thing.

No. The question should be why people think he would go as low as to constantly troll the fans of his work.
If you assume trolling as expected behavior in the first place, you might want to rethink your basics.

[AnonymousPondScum]

No. The question should be why people think he would go as low as to constantly troll the fans of his work.
If you assume trolling as expected behavior in the first place, you might want to rethink your basics.

I never said he was CONSTANTLY trolling.

It's more a matter of "Why would he say something and then not expect people to make certain assumptions about what he said?"

[Tengukami]

I never said he was CONSTANTLY trolling.

It's more a matter of "Why would he say something and then not expect people to make certain assumptions about what he said?"

Are we really going to do this again, four pages after we ended it?

Fine. This is not the same thing as trolling. Trolling implies intent; that he has deliberately set out to make fans think one thing when something else is the case, in order to purposefully upset us for his own sadistic glee.

This is totally different than fans drawing their own far-fetched conclusions and projecting their own hopes and desires onto the tiniest details, and is hardly ZUN's fault.

We had this derail four pages back, and it'd be oh so super swell if we didn't have to go through this again.

[AnonymousPondScum]

Are we really going to do this again, four pages after we ended it?

Fine. This is not the same thing as trolling. Trolling implies intent; that he has deliberately set out to make fans think one thing when something else is the case, in order to purposefully upset us for his own sadistic glee.

This is totally different than fans drawing their own far-fetched conclusions and projecting their own hopes and desires onto the tiniest details, and is hardly ZUN's fault.

We had this derail four pages back, and it'd be oh so super swell if we didn't have to go through this again.

Alright, fine, fine. I guess I can't tell what qualifies as far-fetched, then.

[Tengukami]

I guess you can't. And anyway is besides the point that trolling must include intent.

[Sungho]

Those Mima jokes never seem to get old. How did it even start?

The story is so vague, anyone can just appear and it won't be so out-of-place.

th075 had 21 characters, th09 had 31 characters(including Aya), th105 had 42 characters.
(Those Prismriver Sisters somehow feel like those filler sentences in an essay)
And now th135 has about 70 characters to choose from.
(Numbers might be wrong)

Kawashiro Nitori might have a chance to appear, since she already appeared in two games and a lot of second derivative games.
Plus I think I read somewhere that Nitori was planned for th123 but was scrapped because of time restraints.
If she does appear, I just might say 'ええじゃないか?'

[Ikari]

Those Mima jokes never seem to get old. How did it even start?
Kawashiro Nitori might have a chance to appear, since she already appeared in two games and a lot of second derivative games.
Plus I think I read somewhere that Nitori was planned for th123 but was scrapped because of time restraints.
If she does appear, I just might say 'ええじゃないか?'

I hate all the random ''OMAIGAWD I WANT MIMA TO COME BACK'' or ''She's totally going to appear for x reasons'' when they hardly make sense. That's my opinion. Now for some facts, if Mima was to come back, it would be pretty weird; I'm not talking about continuity (haha, in Touhou?), I'm talking about how she'll hardly have a distinct personality. When Marisa turned into Windows Marisa, she took a few Mima-ish things with her. If Mima was to come back, unless ZUN changes her (which defeats the purpose of having Mima, yes?), she'll feel like a Marisa knock-off.
Nitori wasn't mentionned for th123, Mokou and Kaguya were. And I think Wriggle was a very brief thought or something, but I'm really not sure.

[Sagus]

I'm not talking about continuity (haha, in Touhou?)

Err, every main game after Mountain of Faith is directly related, characters mention events that happened in the extra material, and the events of this new game are directly caused by the events of everything that happened before (all the incidents making the humans go "f*** the world"). That seems like continuity to me.

Nitori wasn't mentioned for th123, Mokou and Kaguya were. And I think Wriggle was a very brief thought or something, but I'm really not sure.

Touhou net says in Nitori's article that ZUN stated that she was intended for Soku but was scrapped due to time constraints, although they don't give the source for this.

[Ikari]

Err, every main game after Mountain of Faith is directly related, characters mention events that happened in the extra material, and the events of this new game are directly caused by the events of everything that happened before (all the incidents making the humans go "f*** the world"). That seems like continuity to me.
Touhou net says in Nitori's article that ZUN stated that she was intended for Soku but was scrapped due to time constraints, although they don't give the source for this.

I more or less meant this as a joke, as there are a few wonky things here and here. I have to say, you're right on that one though; From MoF up to TD (and now Hopeless Masquerade), everything is related, which is nice.

I think the biggest example of a lack of continuity is the world wipe ZUN did when he made EoSD. I don't mind, as I started playing Touhou from EoSD, being only aware of the PC-98 games later on, but it's pretty... extreme.
That... more or less sounds like a fishy rumor. Kinda like my Wriggle one.

[Tengukami]

That... more or less sounds like a fishy rumor.

I see what you did there.

[Ikari]

I see what you did there.

...I swear, it was completely unintentional.

Anyway, so I don't stray too far from the topic, is anyone else disappointed by the whole ''floating instead of flying'' thing? I liked Hisoutensoku for the fast-paced movements and ability to quickly go from one place to another in a split-second, and this one just seems like a dash makes you cross a tenth of the stage.

Plus, the fact they naturally fall down requires to player tap the up button to make them stay in one spot, and it ends up making the characters look like they're having a massive seizure.

[Sagus]

Anyway, so I don't stray too far from the topic, is anyone else disappointed by the whole ''floating instead of flying'' thing? I liked Hisoutensoku for the fast-paced movements and ability to quickly go from one place to another in a split-second, and this one just seems like a dash makes you cross a tenth of the stage.

...I swear, it was completely unintentional.

The only thing worse than making a pun is making an unintentional pun. You, sir, should be ashamed

Plus, the fact they naturally fall down requires to player tap the up button to make them stay in one spot, and it ends up making the characters look like they're having a massive seizure.

Wait, is this how the gameplay really is? It didn't seem like it from the trailer. It DOES look a bit less fast-paced than Soku, but Marisa uses some dashes that covers half the screen once or twice, and they didn't seem like they were constantly falling either... were these mechanics stated by the creators somewhere?

[ふねん1]

I'm still not sure how much I liked the flight system in Soku, though I don't hate it outright or anything. But I'm honestly concerned about this "100% aerial combat" approach. I suspect that it's an attempt to make the combat more like that in the main shooters, at least stylistically, so my opinion on this will end up being from the perspective of a shoot-em-up player. If what Ikari is saying is true about you naturally floating down, and you don't have absolute control over your character's movement like almost all shooting games do (not just Touhou here), then it isn't quite like the combat in the main shooters anymore, is it?

[TheNewGuy]

The flying combat is like that in Astra Superstars. Rather than falling all the way to the ground, the characters gradually rubberband to mid-height. You could think about it as having several 'tiers' that you can go up or down to by pressing 'jump', and eventually automatically return to the center level.  No real 'free flight'