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東方心綺楼 (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/index.html) via TASOFRO
Apparently the 13.5TH Touhou game is going to be another Shanghai Alice+TASOFRO collaboration, marking yet another fighting game entry in the series. It appears to sport wildly different character graphics compared to SWR and IaMP, as well as even more changes to the fighter formula.
According to the teaser website, the focus of the game appears to deal with the themes of Faith covered in previous installments of the Touhou series. The small "world" within Gensokyo of humans is plagued with hardship and as such, they became pessimistic. People began to feel hopelessness when the imminence that the future would not change began to approach. Should also be of note that the phrase in brackets (ええじゃないか！) can be translated as "Isn't this great!" The transience of life became accepted and life itself changed to suit this pessimistic style of thinking. Thus, order became chaos. The more devout became aware of these changes, and sought to fix this. Thus, Faith was needed once more. Monks were able to establish temples, Taoists (?) who wished to leave behind their earthly ties and gain immortality and priestesses who wished to be reinstated to their rightful place...
These girls have decided. As such, it was time to declare "It's my turn!"
A charming battle using weaponry of Faith is about to begin.
EDIT: TouhouWiki-ites would probably know about this too. But I wanted to see everyone's thoughts on it.
EDIT 2: My actual take on the story, a more refined version of what I said here as I mentioned in #shrinemaiden:
18:19:52 (trancehime) 18:16:59 (Z-Virus) Someone translated what the voice said as "if nothing you do matters, that means it's okay to do anything". <-- That's the meaning behind the voice
18:20:01 (trancehime) The voice explicitly said ええじゃないか！ which means "Isn't that great!"
18:20:28 (trancehime) そうだ、何も変わらないのなら、何をしても良いんじゃないか？ <-- "If nothing you do changes anything (or matters), then isn't it okay to do anything?"
18:21:00 (trancehime) そうだ、もっと刹那的に生きれば良いんだ。 <-- "It's okay to live life as if you were living your last days." (aka, transience)
18:21:23 (trancehime) So the people started letting themselves go all out, and then everything became chaotic
18:21:51 (trancehime) The religious people took note of this and had to fix the situation and introduce order once again because that screws up a lot of things
18:22:15 (Z-Virus) and they used the chance to spread their religion.
18:22:46 (trancehime) Yes, they took over the people's hearts once more with their teachings
18:22:53 (trancehime) And thus, order was restored to an extent.
18:23:08 (trancehime) Once more, they needed to rehabilitate the gathering of faith
18:23:23 (trancehime) To do this, they set up a temple, and two important people were needed - a miko and a doushi
18:23:36 (trancehime) This sets the scene for the fightans
18:25:00 (trancehime) The kanji suggests Taoist.
18:25:09 (trancehime) But in the context of the story, I'm not actually entirely sure
EDIT 3: Proofread, saw some errors in my initial readthrough
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New fighting game by tasofro. (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/) Japanese part of the title is pronounced Shinkirou.
(http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/img/th135logo.jpg)
(http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/img/m00.jpg)
(http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/img/m01.jpg)
(http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/img/m02.jpg)
The plot seems to involve the Taoists, Buddhist, and Shinto factions fighting over the human village.
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心綺楼 is probably a pun on 蜃気楼, mirage.
The word used at the last sentence is 信念, which translates to 'belief' or 'creed' or those kind of sorts.
It has little to do with religious faith. I think.
It's great to see that Reimu still has the Ascension Kick.
Else, I wish that it doesn't use too much CPU.
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Eh, kind of disappointed it's a fighter, but any new game is a welcomed game regardless. Looking forward to hearing the music.
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The word used at the last sentence is 信念, which translates to 'belief' or 'creed' or those kind of sorts.
It has little to do with religious faith. I think.
No, I don't think it is directly related to religious faith. I agree with you there, but the definition of "faith" with relation to the Touhou series extends beyond simply what is "religious," it is more akin to "belief" of ideal, "belief" in a certain entity.
The translation on the TouhouWiki states it in this manner:
Now, let each of them, wielding their faith as their armament, fight with grace and splendour, stealing popularity and reputation from one another!
And yes, 心綺楼 seems like it'd be a pun off of 蜃気楼, seeing as they have the same reading. 'V'
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Any chance to see Miko beat Byakreun up is one I'll gladly take.
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Any chance to see Miko beat Byakreun up is one I'll gladly take.
STEP INTO THE RING WITH ME AND THEN SAY THAT, BUDDY. >:D
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Any sign of new characters?
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Any sign of new characters?
No confirmations, the best we can do at this point is speculate.
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OH GOD THIS MADE MY DAY.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
HOLY ORBS POSSIBLY PLAYABLE MYOUREN CREW PLZ YES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
/me detonates in a fit of speculation-induced joy
EDIT: NO I'M NOT EXCITED WHAT GAVE YOU THAT SILLY IDEA.
ZUN and also Tasofro DELIVERS.
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The plot seems to involve the Taoists, Buddhist, and Shinto factions fighting over the human village.
It begins!
How many bits are those sprites? (or is bits not the correct term?)
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New engine, new style.
Glad to see they're doing this again; and now to wonder if Kasen will make an appearance after missing out on Ten Desires...
A new character(s) would be nice too~ XD
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I hope it's more similar to IaMP than SWR/S, but that's just my personal taste.
I'm really loving the new character sprite style. Made me think of Skullgirls when I first saw the screenshots.
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Let the hype begin!
Looking forward to this! The new style looks quite interesting. :)
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Hmmm it's a official game with the authorization of ZUN or a fanmade one?
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Hmmm it's a official game with the authorization of ZUN or a fanmade one?
It's Tasofro, dude. The guys responsible for the previous fighting game iterations of Touhou. :V
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HOT DAMN, HD SPRITES? CHARACTER-SPECIFIC METERS? WILL ALMOST DEFINITELY HAVE BYAKUREN AND MIKO?
GETTIN' HYPE
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It's Tasofro, dude. The guys responsible for the previous fighting game iterations of Touhou. :V
Tasofro also made fangames. Such as Patchcon, for example.
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It's Tasofro, dude. The guys responsible for the previous fighting game iterations of Touhou. :V
I am newbie at Touhou Universe and noob at fighting games :V :V :V
So this is the first official game that they'll release and I'll witness it as a Touhou fan *-*
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The notion of having Byakuren and Miko in a fighting game might getting me interested in playing fighting games again. The sprites look a lot nicer, too.
Anything about the mechanics revealed, or will that come to light with the game's release?
So this is the first official game that they'll release and I'll witness it as a Touhou fan *-*
Previous official iterations were Immaterial and Missing Power, and Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, plus its expansion.
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Oh man what, I was just talking to a friend about wanting a new fighting game today... hopefully this turns out good, very hyped.
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Looks like they couldn't get Alphes, according to the looks of the portraits on the bars.
I wonder who all will be playable aside from Reimu and Marisa, the two in the screenies.
...But more importantly, I wonder when it'll be released.
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THIS IS AN APRIL FOOLS' JOKE AIN'T IT
*checks date*
WHAT
OH BOY OH BOY I CAN'T WAIT
The screenshots look really good. Those high-res sprites and backgrounds are starting to grow on me.
Also, it looks like Tasofro dropped the spell card deck system from SWR which I never really liked. I'm curious about the new fighting mechanics.
Definitely watching warmly until it is ready.
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I'm disappointed that it isn't a shooter, but I'd rather it be a fighter than another StB or GFW. Hope Hijiri is playable and that I can run it on my shitty laptop.
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Oh my fucking god it's coming.
So happy. BWEEEEEH I WANT THAT GAME
Is it me or do the sprites look a bit... unusual?
Well if it includes Byakuren and/or Miko then I will get it NOW DOUBT.
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I'm not really sure if I like the plot, or rather, the solution for this conflict the religious institutions seem to be opting for. I hope there's more to it.
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So, Touhou Shinkirou? Translation would be along the lines of eastern true beautiful tower/ eastern true cloth tower, I suppose. Doesn't really tell much, eh?
The fact that a new game was announced is still awesome though.
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For once Petit, we share an opinion. I'm of the opinion that they all need to get headbap'd.
(Not like I used Reimu, Sanae, or Suwako much anyhow.)
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Oh yeah.
The title of this game proves just how irrelevant Mima is - Shinki got into a Windows game before she did.
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This is Gensokyo, it didn't take a genius to predict the next game would be a battle between 'em. I expected it to be another Phantasmagoria, though. Kinda miffed.
Anyway, I wonder who'll win in the canon ending? It'll be big. No, not trying to start a powerlevel discussion. Just saying it'll have an impact on the storyline. One of them being better than others.
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why can't i contain
all this hype
I don't really like the new art style, and it looks like it actually has a timer now. Still, both might grow on me. Anything to see UFO/TD chars in a fighting game, really.
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度重なる天変地異、あらがえない天災の恐怖、
Repeated calamities, the fear for inescapable disasters,
それらは人間の里に厭世観をもたらした。
They have brought pessimism to the human village.
里には重苦しい空気が渦巻いている。
The human village is swirled with gloomy air.
しかしながらそれは絶望感では無い。
However, it's not a feeling of hopelessness.
何をしても人間の未来は変わらないという閉塞感に近い物であった。
Rather, it's more like a sense of stagnation caused by the fact that,
no matter what happens, the future of humans will never change.
『ええじゃないか！』
"Isn't this good?"
誰が発したのだろうか、そんな声が聞こえて来る気がする。
No one knows who said that, but everyone feels that they have heard such a voice.
そうだ、何も変わらないのなら、何をしても良いんじゃないか？
That's right, if nothing ever changes, doesn't that mean doing anything is fine?
そうだ、もっと刹那的に生きれば良いんだ。
Living more for the moment would be nice.
次第に里の人間の心は解放され、それと同時に秩序が乱れていった。
Gradually, the hearts of the humans were freed. At the same time, order was disturbed.
その様子を別の視点から見る者達が居た。 宗教家達である。
There are those who look at this from another perspective. They are the religious people.
宗教家は乱れた人心を掌握しようと考えた。
They were contemplating about seizing the disturbed hearts of the people.
秩序を取り戻すと同時に、自らの信仰を集める良い機会だからだ。
This is a good opportunity to restore order and at the same time, gather faith for themselves.
幻想郷にお寺を建立した僧侶、俗世を捨て不老不死を目指す道士、
The monk who built a temple in Gensokyo, the Taoist who has abandoned earthly life and seeks immortality,
そして復権を目指す巫女。
And the shrine maiden who aims for reinstatement.
彼女達は決意する。こういう時こそ「私の出番」だと。
They have decided. This is the time for "It's my turn!".
さあ、それぞれの信念を武器に、魅力的に闘い、人気を奪い合え！
Come, each one armed with your own belief, show some fascinating fights, and scramble for popularity!
...probably have some mistakes but the basic gist is there
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This is Gensokyo, it didn't take a genius to predict the next game would be a battle between 'em. I expected it to be another Phantasmagoria, though. Kinda miffed.
Anyway, I wonder who'll win in the canon ending? It'll be big.
That's the problem, I liked the idea of the religions peacefully coexisting and I agree that conflict was unavoidable, but I just hope that this game doesn't just trash that entirely.
For once Petit, we share an opinion. I'm of the opinion that they all need to get headbap'd.
(Not like I used Reimu, Sanae, or Suwako much anyhow.)
"For once"? Did I miss any conflicts? I like your avatar, so I should be able to remember, but I really can't, I'm worried. Happy to hear that you agree either way!
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Well, you've mostly seemed like a bit of a Lawful stick-in-the-mud, kinda like a Paladin.
Which doesn't really mesh with my overall Chaotic alignment. But that's a different matter for a different place, eh?
But yeah, I was hoping for a Phantasmagoria myself. We're long overdue for one.
Come to think of it, didn't ZUN say there wouldn't be a new game this year back during that big to-do about his wedding?
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If ZUN wants to be organized about it, the next Phantasmagoria game will be TH15.
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I am crossing my fingers for it to be released as soon as this Winter Comiket xD
Everyone join my prayers to Youkai Jesus!
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omg are you serious
I was just talking about how I hoped Byakuren would make it into one of the fighting games the other day
Tasofro don't let me down :* :* :*
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I am crossing my fingers for it to be released as soon as this Winter Comiket xD
Everyone join my prayers to Youkai Jesus!
Definitely not. HD sprites mean this will take a while to make.
We'll probably see something like the four character demo SWR had first.
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Welp I was about to bring it up, but it looks like the one prediction I discussed though various boards... IT'S A RELIGION WAR!!!
This pretty much means the Buddhist, Taoist, and Shinto crew are all open game for this! (If Futo appears in this, she will be mained <Double if Seiga, but that's a long shot since she kinda abadoned the Taoist crew>)
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Well, you've mostly seemed like a bit of a Lawful stick-in-the-mud, kinda like a Paladin.
Which doesn't really mesh with my overall Chaotic alignment. But that's a different matter for a different place, eh?
Finally, I've managed to establish an image of myself, hurray! No need to worry, though, lawful paladins don't get off on even 10 percent of the stuff I tend to favour, so it's really just limited to a few areas.
Nonetheless, we also agree on this being a matter for a different place, so let's leave it at that!
But yeah, I was hoping for a Phantasmagoria myself. We're long overdue for one.
Come to think of it, didn't ZUN say there wouldn't be a new game this year back during that big to-do about his wedding?
I think that's true, but either Tasofro's doing the large majority of the work or it will be next year. Seeing how there's only three months left this year, Winter Comiket would probably cut it a little close considering that we've only just gotten the very first information. In the end, it's probably a mix of both.
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Really looking forward to this one, I had a lot of fun fighting people in Hisoutensoku and this looks like it doesn't have the silly weather system, so I expect excellent things. Sprite art is excellent, too.
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I was hoping for a holy wars phantasmagoria, but this is nice too. Can't wait!
...Although I doubt I'll be able to run it on my current computer, considering how it's a 720p game and how I haven't been able to run anything from Tasofro since Grief Syndrome. Oh well.
I'm particularly curious about the "yes / no / neither" meter around the character portraits.
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Wooohoo! It's on!
Dat new style.. And I especially love fighting games..
And just when I got a little bored with hisoutensoku too.
There's no better timing than this :getdown:
:* :*
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Cool, a new fighting game. I still doubt I'll enjoy any single player modes that much, but if the netplay is noticeably better than Hisoutensoku's then I might try out multiplayer again. I'm glad to see that (judging from the screenshots at least) the weather system got the boot, perhaps this one will be a bit more traditional than the recent Touhou fighters.
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Cool, a new fighting game. I still doubt I'll enjoy any single player modes that much, but if the netplay is noticeably better than Hisoutensoku's then I might try out multiplayer again. I'm glad to see that (judging from the screenshots at least) the weather system got the boot, perhaps this one will be a bit more traditional than the recent Touhou fighters.
I hope that does not happen, and that it's welcoming to new players(IaMP was a turn-off for many of my friends). I hope for wackiness in my Touhou fighting games.
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Hype. More IaMP-like (i.e. better) mechanics please. Or at least get rid of weather.
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I'm okay with no weather, because that was an SWR thing, core to the gameplay.
But I don't like the no spellcard deck thing. That was one of the things I liked about SWR/Soku. You could customize to a point, use what you liked, and not be too restricted to a specific set of moves. Unlike IaMP, which had you locked into a set movelist.
(I didn't really like IaMP a whole lot either, it felt...I dunno, floatier than the later ones?)
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That's awesome. I wonder who all's going to be in. Cause I don't know who I'd be more excited about playing as, Kanako or Shou or Murasa.
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Yes. I'm happy as long we get a new Touhou game. This is great news to wake up to.
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This is Gensokyo, it didn't take a genius to predict the next game would be a battle between 'em. I expected it to be another Phantasmagoria, though. Kinda miffed.
Anyway, I wonder who'll win in the canon ending? It'll be big. No, not trying to start a powerlevel discussion. Just saying it'll have an impact on the storyline. One of them being better than others.
Reimu never loses in Canon.
Answer: Reimu, and everything stays as it normally is, or all parties share faith [Except Reimu]
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this looks like it doesn't have the silly weather system
ZUN has finally made up for creating Sanae! (Or Tasofro... whatever.) Holy balls was the mandatory weather system a pain when all's you wanted was a fun bout against a friend or the CPU. (So many perfect fights ruined by Typhoon and River Mist...) Here's hoping whatever new system they put in will be optional outside of story mode. :)
I'm loving the new art style. It looks very comic-book-ish what with the somewhat thick but soft outlines (particularly Marisa). The whole background almost looks like a 3D oil painting, which is pretty sweet (treetrunks could use a lil' antialiasing..). Something about it doesn't quite "pop" as much as the earlier games though... I suppose the final release may have additional changes and graphical effects overlaid on top of everything, so it may be too early to judge.
Real nice to see Tasofro keeping busy. :)
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aaaaah
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
I cannot wait!
One thing, though. Story revolves around the recent faith groups... Might that mean that other Touhou characters'll be scrapped? I mean, TH6-8 don't really seem to have a place in the plot.
Noticed:
-Standard super meters?!
-Circular meters around the player's head. "Yes," "No," and... Someone translate that last one. Does this have to do with faith?
-Marisa and Reimu might be flying in the firefight screenshot.
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I hope the weather system gets the ax, but the card system was a nice touch. The gauges seem to tell me they're going back to IAMP tho...
(then again, the AI could never use them cards anyway.)
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I'm okay with no weather, because that was an SWR thing, core to the gameplay.
But I don't like the no spellcard deck thing. That was one of the things I liked about SWR/Soku. You could customize to a point, use what you liked, and not be too restricted to a specific set of moves. Unlike IaMP, which had you locked into a set movelist.
(I didn't really like IaMP a whole lot either, it felt...I dunno, floatier than the later ones?)
I agree, the deck system was definitely better than IaMP's presets, but the fact that your deck order was random wasn't great, especially since some move overrides are incredibly important in SWR.
As long as they don't go back to IaMP's system I will be happy, I guess.
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I approve. :3 I've never been much for the fighting games, but if the single player is along the lines of SWR I think this will be a lot of fun. Plus, I've been wanting to see where this faith wars arc has been going for a while now.
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Actually, I'd say there's a good chance this is coming out at Winter Comiket. They probably have a lot more of the game done than what they're showing off here.
Definitely looks a lot better than the 12.3 and so on. Part of me is glad they got rid of the deck system, because while it was fun to play with, it did kind of make things a bit harder to get into until you figured out what they all did.
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One thing, though. Story revolves around the recent faith groups... Might that mean that other Touhou characters'll be scrapped? I mean, TH6-8 don't really seem to have a place in the plot.
> Miko included
> No Patchouli
> No Remilia
> No Yuyuko
> No Yukari
GOTYAY
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I liked the deck system just b/c inputting directions for supers on a keypad is a pain.
Guess I'll have to see if I can hook up the xbox360 controller to my pc.
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I liked the deck system just b/c inputting directions for supers on a keypad is a pain.
Guess I'll have to see if I can hook up the xbox360 controller to my pc.
Agreed in IaMP you had to activate the spell then input a key combo whereas in SWR and UNL all you just had to do is press a button.
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OH SHIT
man it's been a long time since the last touhou game
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Reimu never loses in Canon.
Answer: Reimu, and everything stays as it normally is, or all parties share faith [Except Reimu]
She lost against Suika in IaMP
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OH SHIT
man it's been a long time since the last touhou game
ikr
for some reason i want this game to include shikieiki
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My summary of the plot in the teaser site can be found in this thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13556.0.html), I wasn't sure if I was allowed to post news of the game in this board but eh.
Whatever.
EDIT: The circular bar around the character's portrait suggests the possibility of the game having an approval system. Since the story revolves around making an impression on the humans to gain their belief and trust, etc. The three aspects are "Yes," "No," and "Don't care/Undecided."
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I really hope the final boss of this game is some sort of atheist/nihilist loli. I would totally main Nietschze-tan.
(Basing this on the ~mysterious voice~ that told all the humans to just go wild. Could be a more general feeling of chaos, or even just Suika screwing around. Who knows?)
Anyway seeing those red/blue bars gives me massive vibes of TOUHOU ELECTIONS. In the best possible way. Crossing my fingers for Nitori, but if it's focusing on the main religious groups I'll settle for Shou or Futo.
Also, what's Marisa doing here? Religion has never been her thing. :V
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>Another Fighting game
>orgasmic
Oh god Koishi Ichirin better be in this for FISTS
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Also, what's Marisa doing here? Religion has never been her thing. :V
Somebody's gotta have Reimu's back.
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In thinking some more about it, since the plot is human-village-centric, I wouldn't be surprised to see Keine show up. The village isn't exactly a piece of meat to be fought over by wolves.
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I'll be waiting warmly for playable Orin~ :3
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RELIGION WARRRRRRRRR :o
Another translation :
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hopeless_Masquerade/Translation/Prologue :]
So... the three religion icons might be up for the roster, eh?
And Kilga, the village... I think you have a point since... more people, more faith?
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Also, interesting that the standard appears to be best of five rounds? This will probably be a very fast-paced game.
WHICH MAKES ME MORE HYPE.
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Time for me to ride on the SPECULATION TRAIN of what I'm expecting from looking at these newly released shots....
Gameplay
I get this werid vibe that we're going back to what could be something more IaMP style, but probably with a twist. There's been a heavy demand that suggest people didn't dig the weather system from SWR and Soku and looking at the screenshots seems to convince me this is going to it's doing away with these and possibly the spellcards and probably going to make them super moves instead.
Course it's too early to tell as of yet but I feel like it's what it's gunning for.
Characters
Since the story leans in favor of a religion conflict I'm pretty certain that most of the cast will consist of the crew from MoF - TD. This is almost a given. And was mentioned since SoPM that this was likely to occur. So we're likely going to see more new faces than old ones, but then again we may never know...
Also since they're redoing EVERYTHING. Including character art. This also suggest that we're going to definetly have some changes, bigger question is how many character will we get to play as?
My guess is... 12-15 But since this was left in the dark for about a year, this could go even higher, but like everything else, it's unknown, and only time will tell but for now I will go and sit down discuss the candidates for ideal Touhou characters to be playable in this fighter.
Confirmed for Brawl
Reimu - As screen shots have proven
Marisa - As screen shots have proven
High Possibilty
Sanae - Being the main head preistress of the Moriya she's almost certain to appear in this. She's pretty much a major character in Touhou Universe and represent the Moriya Shrine so I'm certain she's going to be invovled.
Utsuho - Being Kanako's sock puppet, and tool for the nuclear furnace, I'm certain Kanako herself would likely send Utsuho out repesent the Moriya Shrine in some way or fashion. Her power alone are prominsing enough especially from Soku.
Youmu - Mainly due to her being in the previous fighters and her combat prowless is worth while, she's pretty major as well.
Aya - She gets invovled constantly, it would be unlike her to NOT get invovled.
Ichirin - She's a interesting character to represent the Myouren Temple, and has UNZAN to boot. Unzan could serve as supers which would make things interesting....
Murasa - could play like a Johnny / May variation. And I could see her working really well in a fighter.
Byakuren - Very likely choice since she's the head figure of the Myouren Temple. Would be interesting to see how her scroll was captured in this. :P
Futo: Pretty much because she's Miko's right hand man and has plenty of moves to boot. It would be interesting to see how her spellcards would be captured.
Miko: Like Byakuren, she's the head figure of the current Toaist Crew and thus would make for an interesting scene especially since we know just well those two would get alone. :P
Likely Possibilties
(Those that I know have a chance, considering their abilities, and skills , but might get opt'd out)
Nitori - Pretty much certain she might appear since she has connection with the Moriya shrine, and was considered for the previous game, but then again, only time will tell...
Suwako - She was very complicated to play as, but yet it had it's charm. Suwako being of the Moriya shrine could indeed get invovled since she would have more free time compared to Kanako.
Nue: She would be interesting in terms of her spellcard, but the question is how would she work (cause I don't expect UFOs to be in it) She's kind of the new member of the Myoren Temple, so she's likely an interesting choice to consider.
Possible, but might not happen
(Because there are always character that we want, but may not see)
Shou - She's kinda debatable, since she's suppose to be the avatar of Bishamothen, but I'm not sure she would be pulled into fight, she's got a move set that would work for her though... so maybe.
Kogasa - She's not really affiliated with any Religion circles, but it would be a nice..... Surprise!
Orin - Would be an interesting choice, but I'm not too sure how she would get involved since she's not really connected to the Moriya Shrine, she's at best likely to be there for Usutho.
Seiga and Yoshika: Let's face it, alone, both would be boring as hell and their fighting mechanics wouldn't work. But together, they could make a very unique fighter, both working as a SINGLE fighter! The only thing that could prevent this is that Seiga disbanded from Miko's crew. However, to the core, she's a taoist. Would she want to get invovled to throw a wrench in the works?
Komachi- Hard to see her being involved due to the religion battle, but I could see her being invovled in an attempt to take down the hermits. (Especially if Seiga's invovled.)
Hard to see happen but might still be possible
Yuyuko - She's kind of been important to Youmu, but otherwise, how would she be invovled in the religion battle?
Kyouko - A new recruit with vocal voice, ok she doesn't have much skills, but personally, her mechanic would work as a gag character (if her punk rock side came out)
Tojiko - I would like her to appear, but having only one spellcard, she VERY LIMITED. Unless she gets some additional stuff, I don't think she's going to be even considered.
Nazrin - Probably not possible, though she may serve as an assit to Shou if she appears...
Kanako - She's usually not the one to get invovled directly. This has been the case since MoF. She's been kinda served as the CEO figure of sorts so she's more likely to send others in her place.
But yea, these are all the ideas of who would likely be invovled in terms of the new comers... if you want to consider the old veterans from older fighters (minus Yuyuko and Komachi which I already mentioned). Then do consider the fact that this is a religion battle, so it's kind hard to see some youkais and magicians from back then come back in this. We'll be lucky if some do make the cut, it'll be how ZUN executes it all that'll decide these factors)
Also don't get me invovled in tryin to guess who the new final boss will be, because I wouldn't be sure without more context to the story.
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In thinking some more about it, since the plot is human-village-centric, I wouldn't be surprised to see Keine show up. The village isn't exactly a piece of meat to be fought over by wolves.
Kourin should be playable. Even if he's the jokiest of joke characters I will main him. And Tokiko as a support like Kanako was for Sanae.
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Really liking the new artstyle here, and the story certainly looks interesting enough.
The big question myself and a lot of people will probably be wanting answered is what characters are going to be in/not in and how the game is going to play. Is it going to keep SWR's control style or go with something new?
Kourin should be playable. Even if he's the jokiest of joke characters I will main him. And Tokiko as a support like Kanako was for Sanae.
He should be the Dan Hibiki of this game; not really that good, but man will it be humiliating if you let him get off his ultimate "attack".
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Being in a previous fighting game will be good for your chances, I think. Also I'll be kind of disappointed if Alphes doesn't do portraits because I REALLY want to see him draw Byakuren. Speaking of which, Byakuren = auto-main :V
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not happy about this, to be honest. I would have wanted another shooter. everything would have been better than a fighting game :/
a new StB was unlikely, but would have been accepted. something like GFW? awesome. a phantasmagoria? hell yeah! a normal shooter would have been preferred, though. TD was lackluster in some parts..
I mean, after UFO we waited how long? 2 years? for a new game. and that happens to be ten desires. not that it was entirely bad or anything, but...well, I digress :V
I stopped playing the fighters long ago, and now another one comes out. well. I'll try it, but I probably won't play it too much.
OH YEAH: I LIKED THE OLD GRAPHICS MORE.
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Meiling was joke character tier in IaMP, and she's actually capable. Thing is, Kourin's not really supposed to have any fighting capability at all XD Like... period. He probably wouldn't have any interest in fighting either.
Definitely super interested in this game though <3
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*disparages the best Street Fighter*
Oh oh, Purvis is going to layeth the smack down once he wakes up.
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Where can I buy this when it's released? Paletweb?
Anyone have experience installing Touhou from disc? I hope I won't run into any problems doing so...
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Hi-res punching Byakuren in the face?
I'm sold.
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Where can I buy this when it's released? Paletweb?
Anyone have experience installing Touhou from disc? I hope I won't run into any problems doing so...
Wai, so paletweb is legit? I always thought it looked like a hoax...
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I don't see why it shouldn't be legit, what makes you believe that?
Both Paletweb and WhiteCanvas should sell it once it's released.
WhiteCanvas JP Sitehttp://www.w-canvas.com/ (http://www.w-canvas.com/)
WhiteCanvas English sitehttp://whitecanvas2000.cart.fc2.com/ (http://whitecanvas2000.cart.fc2.com/)
Paletweb http://www.paletweb.com/top.asp (http://www.paletweb.com/top.asp)
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Personally I like the graphics since it felt odd looking at Hisoutensoku compared to other fighters and the backgrounds in some areas looked odd.
Well with new sprites comes new characters....well im hoping that the majority of the previous cast are playable (*coughcoughAlicecoughcough*) although since this is about faith it's hard not to see the Myouren, Kochiya and Miko's crew in the game in some shape or another....
The character art looks slightly better although Marisa is missing her usual braid and it seems she has yet another costume, she seems to have the most costumes out of the rest of the cast.
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Fuck yeah, Miko's gonna get so many BUDDHA PUNCHes to the face.
I know it's a long shot, but Shinki being around as the Gensokyo equivalent of Satanism would make me laugh my ass off.
Damnit, Kasen better be in this, she's an ally of humans and everything! When she fails to materialize, Iced already called dibs on my tears.
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I don't see why it shouldn't be legit, what makes you believe that?
I'm sorry, it's just that the site doesn't look too professional and it could be something else.
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Loving the looks of it. Hope it plays more GG/BB-style too; I would love their fast pacing and technical play with their not-too-floaty nature. :D
Got an arcade joystick the other day too so it should be all the more fun. :3 I can already imagine how some newcoming characters could play....
Oh god Koishi Ichirin better be in this for FISTS
ORAORAORAORAORAORAORA - :colonveeplusalpha:
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No the Satori sisters should be in this because they're feeling nosy about the incident and check it out and inadvertently end up solving it themselves.
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Koishi would be a more likely combatant.
I doubt Satori would come out of that hole in the ground she calls a home.
Utsuho or someone would have to force her up.
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Hoping for Keine and Kyouko, mainly so I can smack Seiga about with them.
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Rin could get sick and Sato and KoiKoi could find some Medicine
Melancholy from Eirin but get caught up in the situation (and they should get to fight each other on stage 5)
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I'm gonna wait for more information before I judge too much. Mainly because we only have a few screenshots to speculate from.
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I just want to know something: The minimal requirements to play this.
Given that my computer is really crappy, probably I will have a lot of trouble trying to run it since it's a HI-RES game.
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I don't believe anything good can come out of a 13.x title :V
A fighter? Good for those who appreciates those I guess but pretty meh for a guy like me. Oh well, even though i'm not into fighters I still had quite a bit of fun with Hisoutensoku so get hype? Maybe.
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excitement get~
It's a delight to know that there are 3D backgrounds now. Plus with the hopeful advantage of Murasa tossing around anchors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EdYaYfPGsI) and having Ichirin and Unzan working like a JBA character, because ZUN needed to find a new way to use JoJo refrences.
Kourin should be playable.
(http://ezrahub.com/static/costanza.png)
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I'm confused about in which thread I should be talking about this game. How does this discussion differ from the Front Page one?
Not being a smart-ass here or trying to be mean. I genuinely don't get the difference. What am I missing?
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I'm confused about in which thread I should be talking about this game. How does this discussion differ from the Front Page one?
Not being a smart-ass here or trying to be mean. I genuinely don't get the difference. What am I missing?
What happened was when I first found the news of 13.5 on Pixiv and posted the news thread I didn't know another thread had been made at nearly the same time. :V
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But you didn't make either thread. What are you talking about?
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I'm gonna have so much fun with this once it's released (hopefully I get some time to order it early...the next few months tend to be rough on my credit card due to holidays and October having several subscriptions up for renewal).
And a thought that just popped into my mind because, well, I tend to have interesting or hilarious wanderings (crack or possibilities) when I start thinking about Touhou. As said by other people, there's a low likelyhood of a lot of earlier fighting game characters appearing due to the lack of involvement with the religious conflict. So now my mind just went over and thought, "If that's so, as it probably is, Yukari is going to be watching the whole thing via a gap with some popcorn she procured from the outside!"
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I'm sorry, it's just that the site doesn't look too professional and it could be something else.
I ordered something from them once... I never got it - but also was never charged. Their site's really a mess.
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As said by other people, there's a low likelyhood of a lot of earlier fighting game characters appearing due to the lack of involvement with the religious conflict. So now my mind just went over and thought, "If that's so, as it probably is, Yukari is going to be watching the whole thing via a gap with some popcorn she procured from the outside!"
Actually, I think Yukari has a significant chance of appearing. She's a major character who's strongly invested in maintaining the status quo in Gensokyo and has been known to back Reimu up in the past, so I could see her being a part of the Shinto faction. Furthermore, her ability makes it pretty easy to think up moves for her.
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I personally love the religious war angle. Gensokyo is a tiny place, and considering how the Taoists and Buddhists ended up there, that some kind of conflict would develop would be entirely expected.
Also, totally rooting for Shinto here.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MY GOD.
:getdown: :getdown: :getdown: This is the best day of my life :getdown: :getdown: :getdown:
Oh god I'm so excited. Myouren crew in a fighting game? YES. Taoists in a fighting game? YES.
This is so much yes.
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I will play this game if Kyouko is in it.
That is saying a lot.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MY GOD.
:getdown: :getdown: :getdown: This is the best day of my life :getdown: :getdown: :getdown:
Oh god I'm so excited. Myouren crew in a fighting game? YES. Taoists in a fighting game? YES.
This is so much yes.
That's just like how I was acting when I first saw the news except I was at school and all like: "YEEEEEEEESSSSSHHHHH I CAN DIE HAPPILY NOW" Then people started staring at me...
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...
Also, what's Marisa doing here? Religion has never been her thing. :V
She did build a shrine once. She's fighting for the Church of Marisa
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Also don't get me invovled in tryin to guess who the new final boss will be, because I wouldn't be sure without more context to the story.
The prologue suggests the voice the humans have heard could possibly be an actual thing. Since it's a reference to japanese history itself, it could be another old forgotten thing that's become a youkai of some sort, and is entering Gensokyo.
Or there could be just final bosses of the factions duking it out. Either or seems like it'd work out.
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Looking at the screenies it seems the graze got upgraded to a street fighterish dodge type. Techs and counters would be so much easier if that's the case :D
Edit: seems like the round is split into two modes- danmaku and melee. Similar to ultimate tenkaichi battle system of blast range and melee range
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But you didn't make either thread. What are you talking about?
I started the thread in the News forum then somehow the OP got replaced by HGH's post.
I distinctly remember posting a news thread with an ecstatic-sounding subject line in there and now that post is HGH's. ???
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Another fighting game so soon? That's nothing to complain about! It certainly looks really nice. I just hope the general playstyle is similar to 10.5 & 12.3, or even 7.5 (which was kinda odd, honestly).
REALLY want to know what characters will be introduced or brought back. I think Byakuren and Miko are a given, but that's just me. I don't want to hope too much, but I'm so freaking excited for this right now :getdown:
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I started the thread in the News forum then somehow the OP got replaced by HGH.
I think.
Hm, nope. Looking at the edits, the only person who started a TH 13.5 thread in Front Page was a user named HGH. And his OP does not "replace" anyone else's.
Pretty curious.
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Hm, nope. Looking at the edits, the only person who started a TH 13.5 thread in Front Page was a user named HGH. And his OP does not "replace" anyone else's.
Pretty curious.
Well in that case I must not have actually pushed the post button for my post.
It was way early in the morning at around the time of the announcement and I hadn't slept all night so I suspect I forgot to hit send and thought I had. :V
Honest mistake but at any rate it doesn't matter too much I think, sooooo I concede.
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Another fighting game so soon? That's nothing to complain about! It certainly looks really nice. I just hope the general playstyle is similar to 10.5 & 12.3, or even 7.5 (which was kinda odd, honestly).
REALLY want to know what characters will be introduced or brought back. I think Byakuren and Miko are a given, but that's just me. I don't want to hope too much, but I'm so freaking excited for this right now :getdown:
I doubt anyone would know if spell cards are involved, huh? I wouldn't doubt the solo mode ones like in the other games are here, but from the screenshots I can't see any sign of them. Could be similar to IaMP, which isn't a style I'm particularly fond of, but maybe it's just completely different. Either way, REALLY looking forward to this. ESPECIALLY what characters will be new and returning. C'mon Kyouko, I know it's unlikely, but still!
EDIT: Added comments together due to merge~
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Already stated my excitement on the other thread, but since this ones for discussion...
Threads are now merged, and kept on the proper board.
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OMAHGOD THIS WILL BE THE FIRST RELEASE OF AN OFFICIAL TOUHOU GAME SINCE I BECAME A FAN *ultraspasms*
Also, if Miko's gonna be in this one, I hope that she gets more impressive attacks than the one in TD. :colbert:
And also: KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNN :getdown:
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If Miko's in it, she should play like Hercule/Mr.Satan did in the Dragon Ball Z Budokai games. That would be appropriate.
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Miko's storyline will have TEN DIFFERENT CUTSCENES SIMULTANEOUSLY AT ALL TIMES.
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Heck yes another fighter! It'd be nice if it was similar to IaMP. (my preferred fighter) Just easier controls. If there's antialiasing in here, that might pose an issue with my GPU. But, we'll have to see. Lots of hype about this.
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playable nazrin where
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I ask for Koi-Koi.
She better be there.
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Playable Shou or shitty game.
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ITT: Entitlement.
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KOGASA OR BUST.
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KOGASA OR BUST.
I second the idea of having Kogasa.
I demand 4th wall breaking moves.
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ITT: Entitlement.
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I second the idea of having Kogasa.
I demand 4th wall breaking moves.
Kogasa vs. Yukari.
NO ESCAPE.
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I'm planning a fighter marathon this weekend in celebration...gonna run through them backwards.
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Let's have a Wonderful Holy War~!
Mamizou has to be in this. There's no way this isn't possible. The entire Extra mode was just introducing her for this game.
:getdown:
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OH GOD I WANT MAMIZOU.
Is there any possible date of release, or is that still nebulous?
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Come to think of it it really does resembles Skullgirls a bit stylistically! :V Getting an impression that this game will play mostly like a mix of that, Melty, and GG, with more emphasis on GG-style aerial dashing, attacks, and Dusts. Whatever it actually turns out to be, as long as it isn't as floaty as the other games I don't mind too much.
No weather system is good, now extend that to no decks but with multiple types (see: Slash/Bust system in Samurai Shodown 3 & 4).
As for all the character speculation here, instead of wondering who gets in let's guess how they'd play instead. :V
Mamizou has to be in this. There's no way this isn't possible. The entire Extra mode was just introducing her for this game.
First she must be Makoto-Nanaya outfit for even more glory. :getdown:
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First she must be Makoto-Nanaya outfit for even more glory. :getdown:
That man/woman needs a medal :V
Anyway, character styles prediction seems fun!
Ok so mines are...
Kogasa: Surprising style :P Counters, fast techniques, and lots of water based attacks. Plus 4th wall breaking.
Ichirin: Melee fighter with a lot of range for some special attacks. (Read: Brofist)
Murasa: Anchors throwing goodness. Probably a good mix of close and far range.
Byakuren: Kinda like Marisa in SWR/UNL: Close range mage of doom.
Kyouko: Bouncing attacks plz
Yoshika: Either a veeeery slow character with healing properties or...
Seiga: Uses Yoshika as an ally in her attacks, kinda like Carl in Blazblue >_>
I dunno for the other buddhist/taoist characters :c
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I'm going to guess that the meter on the bottom is the regenerating spirit meter for throwing projectiles and stuff. But then what meter will supers use? Is going to be the circular meter next to the character portraits? It doesn't look like it.
Also, the main thing that the previous fighting games lacked was a decent mixup game. The way they implemented high-low mixups were really poor, and the lack of throws added to the problem. I really hope that they really address this problem in this game.
I hope that they implement a good mixup game and some unique meter usages.
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In regards to the multithread confusion, I woke up this morning to find two new threads awaiting approval in this particular subforum (which is standard procedure for all threads made in this forum by non-mods). I looked them over and decided HGH's looked better presented in terms of being a news post, so I went with his and removed the other.
I had actually also checked TARC to see if there was a thread about the game and saw nothing. If Trance's thread was there, then I apologize for missing it and blame checking fifteen minutes after I woke up.
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Based solely on my underinformed, amateur understanding of the faiths, I think the balance might be something like:
Taoist: probably based more on speed than damage, aerial combat, possible time manipulation, good dodging but if hit incur a lot of damage.
Buddhist: slow but powerful, solid defensively, strikes and sweeps.
Shinto: fast and powerful, but if hit, incur a fair amount of damage.
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I had actually also checked TARC to see if there was a thread about the game and saw nothing. If Trance's thread was there, then I apologize for missing it and blame checking fifteen minutes after I woke up.
My thread was in HME and that was first because threads in Front Page needed approval
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IaMP-like system, glorious graphic
can't wait!
this will be great warm-up until next game comes out
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My thread was in HME
That would explain why I didn't see it. My mind defaults to HME being a strictly help forum, since that's what it was originally. :V
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I'm glad to hear that a new game is coming out. Hopefully a trial version will be available soon.
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Im actually happy that this game runs on a new engine. Means new meta to learn! And this also means mysic galore!
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Based solely on my underinformed, amateur understanding of the faiths, I think the balance might be something like:
Taoist: probably based more on speed than damage, aerial combat, possible time manipulation, good dodging but if hit incur a lot of damage.
Buddhist: slow but powerful, solid defensively, strikes and sweeps.
Shinto: fast and powerful, but if hit, incur a fair amount of damage.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FragileSpeedster
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MightyGlacier
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GlassCannon
Sounds good to me.
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Ugh, seriously? I wonder what doesn't get troped sometimes.
I'm also wondering about the Yes/No thing. It's intriguing, and I think it'd be neat if it really were a "conversion" meter. Maybe raise enough power to utterly turn someone, who knows?
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I'm also wondering about the Yes/No thing.
What I am assuming is the Red/Blue/Grey meters are added upon depending on certain actions which allow more speed, less damage and vice versa, or something along those lines.
...Mamizou for mimic character in story mode or im calling bullshit
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What I am assuming is the Red/Blue/Grey meters are added upon depending on certain actions which allow more speed, less damage and vice versa, or something along those lines.
I'm fairly sure it's an approval-based system, because the grey meter means "Undecided/Don't care"
EDIT: The circular bar around the character's portrait suggests the possibility of the game having an approval system. Since the story revolves around making an impression on the humans to gain their belief and trust, etc. The three aspects are "Yes," "No," and "Don't care/Undecided."
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I've gotta wonder if ZUN is keenly aware that it's election year over here. :getdown:
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I'm not a fan of the Position of the Vote Guage or the general HUD, but I am sooo hype for this. Makes me want to play a couple of rounds of IaMP and Soku.
Going to be keeping my eye /very/ closely on this.
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Regarding the HUD, it IS still a work in progress. I imagine it'll change at least some before we get a proper demo.
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I'm also really loving the AquaPazza-like art style with the thick outlines. It gives it a story book charm that looks like it works great with the dynamic 3D background.
Does this mean we might see Multi again !?
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OMGOMGOMG!
SO it's a fighter, eh? I was pretty sure it would be a Phantasmagoria game, but so far this looks great!
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Reimu never loses in Canon.
Answer: Reimu, and everything stays as it normally is, or all parties share faith [Except Reimu]
I remember reading that she lost to Suika canonically in IaMP.
EDIT: Ninja'd...
EDIT:
Yoshika: Either a veeeery slow character with healing properties or...
Going by general portrayals of Chinese zombies, it makes more sense for Yoshika to move at a fast speed, or at least a moderate one. However, seeing that this series gave her more attributes of a Western zombie, I can see that happening.
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Now this made my week! Hell, maybe my entire month.
(And gives me a new fighter engine to mod, but that's a discussion for another day!)
But personally, I was hoping for another TH09 game.
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What is with all these "I wish it was a shooter instead" comments
ZUN is not making a game right now. This is being made by Tasofro on the side. It is not replacing anything.
If this wasn't being made, you wouldn't be getting a shooter, you would be getting nothing.
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I'm thinking that there may be at least 3 new characters. 7.5 has one and 10.5 has two. Seeing the pattern? I'm not counting 12.3, because that is more of an expansion pack.
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I remember reading that she lost to Suika canonically in IaMP.
For what it's worth: Reimu lost the battle, but won the war, and the last few lines of the Suimusou ending hint strongly at it being her powers that resolved everything in the end. She's definitely lost matches when going all-out though, and it wasn't just Suika; Tenshi beat her at full power in a rematch and Yorihime defeated her quite handily on her first try. The "invincible Reimu" thing is overstating things a bit, I feel; it's just that no one can afford to kill her, is all.
It's best not to sweat it either way. It doesn't really matter who wins in a given fight so long as it fits the narrative, and Reimu's lost plenty of matches when there isn't as much on the line.
What is with all these "I wish it was a shooter instead" comments
I don't think anyone's really angry that it's fighter. It's just that it's been seven years since PoFV came out and an update and a new engine would do that game wonders after that long of a time. People are curious to see what ZUN could do if he revisited that style of game.
As for me, I'm friggin' pumped. SWR is one of my all-time favourites in the series, and Tasofro's been hitting them out of the park with every game they've made since then. I'm really looking forward to seeing who makes it on the roster.
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With the pattern going on, it might be another 2 whole games until another PoFV-like comes around.
7.5 -> 10.5 -> 13.5 = fighting games
3 -> 9 -> 15? = 1 VS 1 games
I'm not sure whether logic should be applied to anything that ZUN makes, but... maybe?
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(see: Slash/Bust system in Samurai Shodown 3 & 4).
Yay, an SS3/4 reference! :D
Personally I've always wished you could setup your initial moveset along with your deck's contents. The random nature of it all makes most strategies unreliable and for casual play, setting up the right set of moves can take a bit of luck. I guess it's not such a big deal anyway; judging from the screenshots there seems to be something completely new involved.
Maybe a slash/bust system. With KoF-style tag-teaming. ^-^
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What is with all these "I wish it was a shooter instead" comments
ZUN is not making a game right now. This is being made by Tasofro on the side. It is not replacing anything.
If this wasn't being made, you wouldn't be getting a shooter, you would be getting nothing.
ITT: Entitlement.
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I expect Byakuren, Toyosatomiko, Kanako, Yuuka, and Mima to be in it.
^^
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Thing is 12.3 didn't have any new characters.
I mean, it had Goliath Doll (which got wrecked at the end), Catfish (a dream) and Hisotensoku (who we never do fight), but they don't seem to last past the game.
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Soku didn't really need a new character since it wasn't any significant kind of incident, just the daily lives of three characters.
I think it's a safe bet that the final boss will be a new character, since that's ZUN's operating procedure, but I wouldn't expect anything beyond that since there's going to be a lot of competition for getting in the roster.
I should warn that you probably shouldn't get your hopes up for a big cast - it'll almost certainly be smaller than Soku's. Making sprites is 90% of the work in making a fighting game and the switch to HD will really slow down production - that's why the initial releases of Blazblue and Skullgirls had such small casts. This looks more to be about KOF 12 quality, but this is just Tasofro we're talking about.
It kinda depends on animation quality/number of moves, but some people are estimating around 15 characters, I think about 12 is a safe bet. More than that is just gravy.
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I don't think anyone's really angry that it's fighter. It's just that it's been seven years since PoFV came out and an update and a new engine would do that game wonders after that long of a time. People are curious to see what ZUN could do if he revisited that style of game.
Are people? My experience is that those clamoring for another PoFV are a small but vocal minority. Usually when it gets mentioned, it's always in trolly/ominous terms, e.g., "hey guys what if Touhou 1X turns out to be another Phantasmagoria?"
And I say this is someone who loves PoDD, and thinks it's the best game of the PC-98 series.
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Thing is 12.3 didn't have any new characters.
I mean, it had Goliath Doll (which got wrecked at the end), Catfish (a dream) and Hisotensoku (who we never do fight), but they don't seem to last past the game.
I said before that 12.3 doesn't really count, because it is more of an expansion pack.
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I've always wondered why Suwako got into 12.3 instead of Kanako, but if ZUN already had the "religious war" in mind, it makes perfect sense.
Anyway, I think the cast will be:
Reimu (already in)
Marisa (already in)
Kanako (faction leader)
Byakuren (faction leader)
Miko ( ^ ^ ^ )
Shou (the bridge between Humans and the Myouren temple)
Mononobe (Miko's right hand, visits the village)
Sanae (gatherer of faith for Kanako)
Mamizou (youkai's trump card against Miko)
Soga (ensemble dark horse)
Utsuho (Kanako's puppet)
Yukari (sage-sama)
Aya, or Hatate (news source)
Here's wishing that Mokou and Keine will be playable, being a game about the human village and such.
I hope that after 13.5 we move on from this religion stuff.
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With the pattern going on, it might be another 2 whole games until another PoFV-like comes around.
7.5 -> 10.5 -> 13.5 = fighting games
3 -> 9 -> 15? = 1 VS 1 games
I'm not sure whether logic should be applied to anything that ZUN makes, but... maybe?
You missed 12.3 though for fighters
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Maybe a slash/bust system. With KoF-style tag-teaming. ^-^
That sounds like a lot of fun. Not sure what the leader character specials would be, however.
I should warn that you probably shouldn't get your hopes up for a big cast - it'll almost certainly be smaller than Soku's. Making sprites is 90% of the work in making a fighting game and the switch to HD will really slow down production - that's why the initial releases of Blazblue and Skullgirls had such small casts. This looks more to be about KOF 12 quality, but this is just Tasofro we're talking about.
I'm fine with small casts myself, for it can better allow for each character being unique (one of my favourite aspects of BB).
Not sure if KOF12 would be a good comparison, though, considering it was quite lacklustre compared to 11 and 13. That is, if you were referring to gameplay - graphically I think it's fine considering the smaller teams involved.
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I noticed one thing in the images though
Doesn't it seem like they're floating/flying more in this game? I haven't seen either of them really stand of the ground, and kinda weird that Marisa is staying on her broom.
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You're right. Either they're giving us more aerial control (and ability to stay up longer) or maybe you never do land on the ground and the whole combat will be played through flying.
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That might make things a lot more annoying.....
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I think that's actually a pretty swell idea. They could do some pretty cool stuff if they stay in the air.
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GREAT
I can't wait to play Byukaren and Nue, and I hope that SWR characters and Hisoutensoku (not sure if properly spelled) are avaible cause I want Remilia punching all the Moriya crew :D
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I noticed one thing in the images though
Doesn't it seem like they're floating/flying more in this game? I haven't seen either of them really stand of the ground, and kinda weird that Marisa is staying on her broom.
Ooh, exciting. I really liked the improved air-game going from IaMP to SWR/Soku, so this looks good to me.
I wonder how the approval ratings in the top corners are going to factor into the gameplay? Maybe a better rating means damage degrades more slowly during a combo? The super gauge charges more quickly? Or maybe something else entirely?
Are people? My experience is that those clamoring for another PoFV are a small but vocal minority. Usually when it gets mentioned, it's always in trolly/ominous terms, e.g., "hey guys what if Touhou 1X turns out to be another Phantasmagoria?"
And I say this is someone who loves PoDD, and thinks it's the best game of the PC-98 series.
A few people mentioned they were disappointed earlier up-thread (Coreven and Hanzo K., among others), and someone I know on another forum was surprised as well it wasn't a Phantasmagoria. Though you're right, it's definitely a minority; everyone seems pretty happy with the news otherwise.
(I, for one, look forward to a PoFV one day where the final boss won't crush me beneath her heel. :derp:)
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Given that a friend of mine was worried that ZUN getting married would mean far less time for him to make games I'm just bloody ecstatic we're getting a game at all and that it's a fresh start for the fighting titles.
Now just to wait for Forbidden Scrollery. :derp:
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A few people mentioned they were disappointed earlier up-thread (Coreven and Hanzo K., among others), and someone I know on another forum was surprised as well it wasn't a Phantasmagoria. Though you're right, it's definitely a minority; everyone seems pretty happy with the news otherwise.
Oh, well, gotta define "everyone" then, since I doubt the fans of the fighting games are a majority. A new game is good news in general, but people are gonna prefer some games over others, so it's good news or better news.
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Oh, well, gotta define "everyone" then, since I doubt the fans of the fighting games are a majority. A new game is good news in general, but people are gonna prefer some games over others, so it's good news or better news.
This. Just because I'm a little disappointed that a new game is a type I don't like doesn't mean I'm disappointed there's a new game at all. As I said near the beginning of the thread, I'm still really looking forward to the music, because I don't have to like the gameplay to admit their soundtrack is awesome.
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Touhoucana. Make it happen, Tasofro. Please. ;_;
Also, I'd like to see (in case Touhoucana doesn't happen)
- at least two buttons for melee
- melee moves with fast startup
- fast highjump cancels and air backdashes
- reward for good neutral game playing
personally, I'm curious about how will this game be influenced by newer fighting games (Aquapazza's emotion system, Arcana's Extend Force, clash, etc.).
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Interesting, just found this out. Damn internet connection dying for 3 days, wasn't able to hear the good news until now.
Speculations on characters/gameplay aside, I am loving the improve sprites. Looks like it went from the days of Genesis/SNES and became something for the Playstation.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it being a fighter, I'm quite okay with that. In fact, I rather liked SWR/Soku, as they're far easier to play than IaMP you know.
I'm just mildly disappointed that it wasn't a Phantasmagoria, like the others. I mean, most folks I know of were generally expecting the next game to be one. (In a pattern-reading sorta way, given the past trends.)
But like one guy earlier said, I'm eagerly waiting until this whole religion war arc is over.
On a more related note, I share Chema's hopes for more than just MoF and on to be in play. I don't mind if they take a while to make it a thing really, the more time they take on the project, the better it'll be.
I do like the enhanced sprites though, a BlazBlue/Guilty Gear kinda style would work quite well methinks.
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Maybe ZUN only counts the non-decimal games towards Phantasmagoria games and we'll get it with TH14. :V
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I'm more interested in how the new faces in Gensokyou (Or even some old ones) will fit into a fighting game environment. I can foresee a Seiga with Yoshika standby assist team working well, as well as Ichirin and Unzan making a unique character.
I just hope our favourite oarfish and those other guys make a return in addition to a healthy roster bolster (25 characters? Seems like a nice, solid number to me, but more or less are both possible I suppose).
If this really ties into the current arc of the series well, it might mean a very real possibility we'll be seeing Kasen's first in-game appearance.
My gawwd I can't help but overspeculate on this.
I just have to assume the worst. 8 character roster. Characters promised from day 1 of the project being $5 DLC. Shady "anti-infinite" system that doesn't actually work. 3 character team being disproportionately better than a solo character.
SkullTouhous.
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I actually hope Ichirin is in this so she can be more than Unzan's hitbo....
Oh wait. She'll just end up being Unzan's hitbox again :/
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probably bullshit observations from a fighting game commentator:
-it's safe to say these screens are not from the same match; looking at the time meters, hp bars wildly fluctuate. Unless there's some melty blood like health recovery system, they can't be part of the same round even though the 'rounds won' counters are identical. This may or may not suggest the presence of Yoshika and Seiga, as an hp recovery mechanic would be perfect for Yoshika with Seiga on assist specials. Or something. Of course, we can still speculate as though they were the same match, for the sake of sanity.
-Reimu has her somersault kick; probably a 623. We may or may not be seeing the usual 236, 623, 214, 421 special moves layout.
-floaty marisa on the second screen as mentioned earlier. Hover mechanic? Flight? Who knows. Should be interesting if it's a manually engaged flight mode for mixups.
-Marisa's meter is noticeably shorter than Reimu's; this implies balance regarding usage vs quality or other such resource management
-Cosmetic differences on the decals next to their 'mana' meters may or may not just be cosmetic, what with the whole 'three' threme we have going on here.
-Reimu's meter goes slightly red when she uses that bullet in the second screen, and massively red when she uses her kick. This may be by default, or she may have used bullets before, OR she's putting Marisa in a blockstring, but there may also be a mechanic involving reversal techniques that makes them more costly when used as a reversal.
-Marisa's meter is not going red when she uses her attack on the third screen; the implication here is that, despite being flashy, is just a regular air normal or command normal. That's also a pretty silly hitbox for an air normal, though, but our game screen is also ridiculously huge. I'm pretty sure that the game is going to be centered around zoning and capitalization of openings, like Soku. It just fits touhou too well. also worth noting that it's three hit, which is somewhat silly for an air normal in general because of how long that's going to put you in blockstun. Depending on cancel mechanics, that is a move we could be seeing a lot.
-It's worth noting that Marisa's 'no' meter goes massively up when she hits Reimu in the third screen, while Reimu's 'yes' meter also rises. In addition on the third screen, Reimu's 'neither' meter also doesn't change much at all, while Marisa's does actually alter. Fits the characters; Reimu's pretty straightforward while Marisa is a known liar.
-I'm inclined to believe Marisa actually managed to block that somersault kick, as there's no fluctuation in the % next to their portraits, which certainly seems to change based on hit.
-The % meters seem to be offense/defense related. I have a funny feeling they're offense/defense bonuses; if you are getting wailed on but manage to sneak out and counter, you get a bonus, and the reverse for the guy wailing on you. It seems they rapidly revert to near 0 levels in neutral, as the two screens with Reimu on the offensive show. This, if true, may be a way to punish people for not doing a combo with a hard knockdown (or a 100% combo for people who played Soku)
-It's interesting to note that the % bars are colored according to the most prominent of the yes/no/neither, which means depending on which is most prominent you get bonuses? Interesting.
-I have a sneaking feeling that the 'neither' meter has to be the dominant one for you to use supers.
I'm inclined to believe that characters will have unique attributes in addition to movesets, size, speed, and other basics, what with how many different things there are on the screen. HP, total 'mana' (which may be just that or an ex-gauge, though likely just a mana gauge), the % counter, and our yes/no/neither meter are all viable ways to differentiate the characters. One character may have more drastic fluctuations in the yes/no/neither, another might have a really honking huge 'mana' bar, etc,
well don't fell the need to take any of the above seriously, since it's extrapolation and guessing based on three screenshots, but hey.
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So anyone want to speculate on what kind of new characters we may get and how they fit into the plot?
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My guess is that there won't be any new characters.
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Well I think the first thing we might ask based on the translation of the pre story is... if there is a new character that is invovled.
The person must be responsible for causing the people in the human village to loose thier motivation and hope in the new religions, thus causing everyone among the religion factions to fight for the faith of the people. Since they all seem to not care what's going on.
If this is the case, then what we need to consider to what kind of mythical figure or creature could be responsible for taking away peoples' hopes.
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Well, if we look outside Japanese myth, there's one in particular that stands out.
The story of Pandora's Box. After the box was opened, only one thing remained inside, Hope.
Many series have toyed with the idea that it's only Hope while it remains inside the box.
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Suika and Tenshi started incidents. This incident is well on its way without any new characters.
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Well, if we look outside Japanese myth, there's one in particular that stands out.
The story of Pandora's Box. After the box was opened, only one thing remained inside, Hope.
Many series have toyed with the idea that it's only Hope while it remains inside the box.
Street Fighter x Tekken? ???
Oh god no
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The terrors found in recurring disasters and unavoidable catastrophes;
they have brought pessimism to the human village.
A gloomy atmosphere swirls about the village.
But it's not a feeling of despair.
It's more like claustrophobia.
"Why not?"
No one remembered speaking it, but this voice still made itself heard.
If nothing is going to change, shouldn't we just do whatever we want?
We should just live for the moment.
Little by little the hearts of humans in the village have become uncaring, and they have begun to fall into disorder.
New character who enjoys chaos? Eris
There are those who view the scene from a different perspective; the religious.
They believe that they should seize control of the people who fell into disorder.
Because as well as restoring order, it would be a great opportunity to gather faith at the same time.
The priest who has built a temple in Gensokyo,
Byakuren
the Taoist who abandoned the material world and dreams of immortality,
Miko
and the shrine maiden who seeks rehabilitation.
Reimu
They've all decided; now is their time to take the stage.
Now, with your beliefs as your weapons, battle with appeal and fight over your popularity!
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Street Fighter x Tekken? ???
Oh god no
You do realize that SFxT didn't invent Pandora's Box, right?
The terrors found in recurring disasters and unavoidable catastrophes;
they have brought pessimism to the human village.
A gloomy atmosphere swirls about the village.
But it's not a feeling of despair.
It's more like claustrophobia.
"Why not?"
No one remembered speaking it, but this voice still made itself heard.
If nothing is going to change, shouldn't we just do whatever we want?
We should just live for the moment.
Little by little the hearts of humans in the village have become uncaring, and they have begun to fall into disorder.
Yeah, this part does imply new faces.
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You do realize that SFxT didn't invent Pandora's Box, right?
But they used it as their plot device
Pandora mode go
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The terrors found in recurring disasters and unavoidable catastrophes;
they have brought pessimism to the human village.
A gloomy atmosphere swirls about the village.
But it's not a feeling of despair.
It's more like claustrophobia.
"Why not?"
No one remembered speaking it, but this voice still made itself heard.
If nothing is going to change, shouldn't we just do whatever we want?
We should just live for the moment.
Little by little the hearts of humans in the village have become uncaring, and they have begun to fall into disorder.
New character who enjoys chaos? Eris
I don't see how that quote at all implies a new character, but it would be fun if one made an appearance (although I don't count on it!)
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I thought it was a loud voice so, the first person that came to mind was Kyouko.
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I think a new character is pretty likely. All the previous fighting games other than 12.3 have had their own incidents with a new final boss, so I don't expect this one to be different. And 12.3 was really more of an expansion pack since it didn't have a new battle system or even include all the characters unless you also owned SWR.
I also somewhat doubt it would be based on anything other than Japanese/Chinese mythology. ZUN's been pretty consistently moving away from Western myths and characters. Heck, he hasn't even had any characters with English names since Medicine in PoFV.
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Well, if we look at Ten Desires character I think the most logical character would be Jesus, the actually-a-loli-girl who shoots crosses and thinks Multi-divinities religions are silly.
I'm kidding, but you have to admit that Ten Desires was a ''You thought this historical character was a man? THINK AGAIN!'' party.
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Why would that be the case? IAMP had Suika and SWR had the Celestials.
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I think a new character is pretty likely. All the previous fighting games other than 12.3 have had their own incidents with a new final boss, so I don't expect this one to be different. And 12.3 was really more of an expansion pack since it didn't have a new battle system or even include all the characters unless you also owned SWR.
Completely agree. This seems to be where it's going. But, time will tell.
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I honestly would PROBABLY expect a game that includes all the previous characters from the last games BUT the HUGE difference here is that it seems the sprites and everything was completely redone, so I dunno if they'd be willing to redo the previous sprites, whereas in SWR/Soku they re-used the sprites from IaMP and just made minor improvements on them.
So in all honesty I'm expecting an entire character select do-over. So I'm expecting more new characters than old.
PS: Also, just noticed the background (shrine level) is REAL 3D, you can tell how the second screenshot there's a different perspective of the shrine compared to the other two.
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I'm calling dibs that Yumemi is gonna butt in, because crosses :D
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I'm calling dibs that Yumemi is gonna butt in, because crosses :D
Doubt it. ZUN doesn't really believe in the PC-98 era anymore, excluding Yuuka. :V
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Doubt it. ZUN doesn't really believe in the PC-98 era anymore, excluding Yuuka. :V
And Alice. Hell, the poor girl barely escaped, she lost her backstory and race!
I really wonder what the new character will be like... (*if there is one*)
Christian? Muslim? Scientist? Religions seems to be theme so...
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Going by the speculations, if by any chance the game gets many characters into it and if we get Soga as a playable, I wouldn't be surprised if Mokou were there as well, since there is this thing about their clans. (Soga as a protagonist and she encounters Mokou in her storyline).
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Going by the speculations, if by any chance the game gets many characters into it and if we get Soga as a playable, I wouldn't be surprised if Mokou were there as well, since there is this thing about their clans. (Soga as a protagonist and she encounters Mokou in her storyline).
And somehow, that could make up for Mokou's being unavailable in SWR/UNL.
I hope she'll be there then!
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Going by the speculations, if by any chance the game gets many characters into it and if we get Soga as a playable, I wouldn't be surprised if Mokou were there as well, since there is this thing about their clans. (Soga as a protagonist and she encounters Mokou in her storyline).
That could be interesting, and reminds me that both her and Kaguya were considered for Hisoutensoku, but then scrapped due to being too strong. Maybe they've worked that out since then - who knows? Would love to see them either way.
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Well, I'm really more concerned for the game as a fighting game over a touhou game, as you can probably tell. Soku had some major balance issues regarding matchups (Sakuya>Everyone) that I was never fond of and I'm hoping this game will have less of that.
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Doubt it. ZUN doesn't really believe in the PC-98 era anymore, excluding Yuuka. :V
Yuuka doesn't seem to get much attention from him anymore. She only appeared in a single Windows game and then made cameos in two books, that's all.
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Yuuka is about as important as Medicine. Which isn't very important. She seems to have been brought back as a cameo, and may have actually been the point where ZUN decided he didn't care anymore.
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Well, here's who I'd think will appear in the game for sure. SPECULATION FUNTIME, GO!
Shintoist (sort of): Reimu, Sanae, Suwako, Kanako
Buddhist: Byakuren, Shou, Ichirin(?)
Taoist: Miko, Futo, Seiga
*Insert what ever else I may be missing here*: Momiji and/or Kyouko PLOX
Reimu & Sanae are a given, and Suwako/Kanako are Goddesses. I chose Shou and Ichirin because they just seem closest to Byakuren, in my eyes. Can't say for sure on Ichirin though. Murasa seems more suited, but... I can't decide. Miko & Futo just seem to make the most sense there, and Seiga seems pretty popular/important :V
Now, Marisa is in the game, and she's not exactly the religious type, as far as I can tell. Meaning there will likely be others who aren't, but maybe it's just because she's a protagonist. I would also imagine Suika, Iku, and Tenshi appear since they starred in the fighter games (though appeared in Double Spoiler). But with the game revolving around religious danmaku filled warfare, perhaps they won't.
If I don't get my Yuyuko, I will explode.
EDIT: Typos, because I like to rush things~
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I'm curious to see what kind of new mechanics will be implemented seeing as we won't be using spellcards deck anymore . So far graphichs and backgrounds definitely look good and that "faith/election/approvation meter" seems to hint at an intersting set of gimmicks .On the characters I'm somewhat pondering if we'll see Keine during this incident because ,although she's not on my list of favourites,it should be interesting to see how she copes with the Human Village being treated like
a piece of meat to be fought over by wolves.
as Kilgamayan wrote in his reply.
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We seriously shouldn't expect characters to appear because they appeared in the past fighting games. While that was true for SWR and Hisoutensoku, that's because the same sprites and attacks were used over and over again. It wasn't hard to transfer them into a new game. That one uses different sprites, gameplay, etc... If anything, I'm expecting a complete change of the usual fighting game cast.
And that view of the human village reminds so much of that tactical Touhou game where the village is pretty much just ''That one base located in the middle''. I think it was called Sengoku...
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Sengoku Gensokyo, yes. There was a good reason why, on the "Very Easy" to "Lunatic" difficulty scale in World mode, the human village's level was "Good Luck".
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Sengoku Gensokyo, yes. There was a good reason why, on the "Very Easy" to "Lunatic" difficulty scale in World mode, the human village's level was "Good Luck".
Reimu: Let's capture the village!
Marisa: Let's not.
Reimu: Why?
Marisa: Look at the surrouding.
Me: Uh? *sees the garden of the sun, the netherworld, the eientei, higan, hell, pretty much everyone* OH GOD DO NOT WANT DO NOT WANT.
I wonder if it'll be like this in Hopeless Masquerade...
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Going off topic, getting the human village was fine; it's getting attacked right after by 3 armies that's disheartening :c
And onto the topic of characters again, summons would be a good way to include a larger number of characters in various religious groups without having them constitute a large part of the cast. Not necessarily the same way Sanae's summons work in Soku, but a similar vein of things.
Miko could summon out Futo and Soga for stuff, Yukari could get Chen and Ran, Seiga with a constant Yoshika standby (Think I guess like Carl and Ada?), and either Byakuren could get summons, or Shou with Nazrin, et al.
Not every character would have such assists/standbys, but they could represent a whole cast in a fuller way. Just like Alice has frametrap doll stuff unique to her, and Cirno has the "fast&puny or slow&huge" moves.
Look at me over speculating again.
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You're only over-speculating things if you're examining the title and prologue word by word to figure out what they mean.
So far, it might be possible Koishi could be involved.
But that's probably just my desires overpowering my reasonable mind.
So yeah, it's probably not Koishi, but it's possible that it's someone with an ability relating to freedom, heart/feeling, etc.
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I swear if Koishi appears in that game, I'm going all the way to Japan to give ZUN and Taosfro a big hug.
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I swear if Koishi appears in that game, I'm going all the way to Japan to give ZUN and Taosfro a big hug.
hey man that's my job
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hey man that's my job
Then it's both our job >_>
ZUN, give us all our favorite subconscious loli.
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Dammit, I discovered this while I was at school in the library, got scolded for my super loud fangirl squeal...
I personally hope it's more like SWR than IaMP difficulty-wise...
I'm no good at fighters and I like looking at least a bit competent in them...
*Prepares flame shield*
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b-but IaMP rewarded good fundamentals more so you wouldn't even need those jump loop combos... ;_;
anyways, I do hope that this game has a True Last Boss. And she has a cape, uses skittles as well and is a nightmare to players everywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEzi4soBnJc
(obligatory S!AH2 version post) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjUa_TY1xgc
Hoping for Yorihime as well, too.
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I'm a fan of SWR's physics and concepts myself as well. Install mode for supers was neat in IaMP, but SWR flight was a huge step up from simple air dashes for more free-form movement and more certainty between the Melee and Bullet mechanics. I'm a big fan of games having a fluid and versatile movement game so Soku is the Touhou fighter for me, even in spite of weather shenanigans and balance issues. Though IaMP has some stupid balance issues too despite having a lot smaller character roster. The more variable neutral game is just so much worth the tradeoff for its experimental stuff, compared to the more mechanical step/air dash movement of the first game. It's the same reason I like Arcana Heart and Smash Bros. so much as games; the more analog and less digital the game, the more fluid it feels and the more inviting it is to explore. IaMP/Street Fighter/Most other fighters feel like I have to buy a wedding ring for my jump arc since every little thing it so over dedicated. As for the Melee/Bullet divide, A/B "Sometimes" being bullets and "Sometimes" being Punch and Kick just felt like a crapshoot since it doesn't allow all options at all times. Moves functioning differently at different proximity to the opponent reinforces that digital nature, where Soku's smaller Melee diversity in favor of a moveset that disregards proximity and lets you do whatever move whenever you want; even if you make the wrong move, the point is it's still up to you and not the game what move you do. IaMP has some things I like more, like the constant stream of bullets when held instead of charged up shots and the offensive bombs for some interesting combos. I'll never be able to get behind IaMP Alice, but that's mostly just an issue with the huge differences in game mechanics that emphasise less stage control and more rushdown.
It looks like there's a large neutral game in this new one too from the distances and height of Marisa and Reimu, so hopefully it can be as fluid and approachable as SWR/Soku, with a stronger reward and combo game like in IaMP. I like both games' Super mechanics, but both have flaws too. The random and limiting nature of SWR's vs a smaller moveset diversity/customisation in IaMP.
We know for sure that it'll be fun though. Tasofro has yet to make a fighter I can't enjoy.
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Ah man
can't wait for this to come out
And I hope it has Okuu. It might not, which is sad, but one can dream. Well, it should have Kanako, so maybe I'll play her.
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I wasn't around when the previous fighting games were announced. Do we only get to know everything when the game is released, or does new info come out before then?
Thanks in advance!
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I wasn't around when the previous fighting games were announced. Do we only get to know everything when the game is released, or does new info come out before then?
Thanks in advance!
SWR and Soku if I recall had gradual updates, but usually close to release I think. But they only reveal playable characters from previous games, not the new character/boss. That's for the people who play it to find out themselves :P
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Welp a recent blog post came out from Tasofro about Hopeless Masquerade.
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=60
It reveals 2 things:
1. The game is being coded entirely from scratch. So no material from the previous games will be used whatsoever.
2. The game is still in it's VERY EARLY stages of development. So chances are we may not see it this Comiket. So if anything we may have to wait till Reitaisai before a demo comes out.
At least this is what I was told from the gist of someone translating it. But either way this suggest we're going to be in for some waiting time before more stuff about it comes out.
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Welp a recent blog post came out from Tasofro about Hopeless Masquerade.
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=60 (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=60)
It reveals 2 things:
1. The game is being coded entirely from scratch. So no material from the previous games will be used whatsoever.
dd
2. The game is still in it's VERY EARLY stages of development. So chances are we may not see it this Comiket. So if anything we may have to wait till Reitaisai before a demo comes out.
At least this is what I was told from the gist of someone translating it. But either way this suggest we're going to be in for some waiting time before more stuff about it comes out.
[font=Ｍ]I said, It took a great deal of planning to announce Ms. ZUN[/font]
Dammit google chrome translate...
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I didn't get that translation. I got this:
"I have to say, it took a lot of time until the announcement from Mr. ZUN Planning"
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Watch this game takes a few years like SWR did :V
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Watch this game takes a few years like SWR did :V
Well, SWR actually too approximately a little over a year to make.
It was announced in early 2007, revealed at Reitaisai 07', a demo was later released at Comiket that year, then a second demo earlier the following year, then at Reitaisai of 08, the game was released.
So if anything I wouldn't be surprised if it takes roughly around just as long to complete. Though the release of Touhou games seems also planned out. We'll have to wait and see what ZUN and Tasofro has cooked up for this game. I say we'll likely start seeing some light on this around Reitaisai next year at the earliest.
And considering the time of the announcement, and the journal that declares they're building it completely from scratch and it's in it's early stages of development... my actuall estimate of the game's release will likely be set for....
Winter of 2013 (Winter Comiket) (could be wrong you know, but Tasofro only has some many working hands)
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Hopefully they don't give the release date as 'When it's done'. :V
In regards to Koi:
I swear if Koishi appears in that game, I'm going to hope that she isn't as crazy as her Freak Fortress 2 boss version let alone the Koishi Hell one.
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I was already waiting for another danmaku game to come out earlier than the fighting game, now my hopes are higher even though there already is the new manga to come out.
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I hope we get a final spell theme. :3
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If Koishi is in, she better damn well have WLen's invis run and Len's fake jumps/movement.
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ITT people wants Koishi
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STG or shitty game.
zengecu pls
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Competent STG or shitty game more like. Just being an STG doesn't save a game from being bad.
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zengecu pls
Pretty sure what Zengeku said there was that while fighters aren't generally his thing, he found SWR fun, which is a wee bit different than "STG or shitty game".
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@iK: (trying to stay on a civil conversation, like you :D)
- flight is okay (hated the spirit consumption while grazing, though)
- I once wondered why IaMP uses such control scheme regarding how close you are to your opponent, and then realized that most characters have fast projectiles with really fast startup (Reimu's needles, Marisa's lasers, Sakuya, Suika, etc) on their far shots and stopped relying on them, and instead relied more on the melee moves. far moves are good for poking from afar (can stop the opponent from declaring), and don't forget that your air backdash comes out faster than in SWR/Soku, allowing you to counterattack immediately with a melee move (unless you're cornered). SWR/Soku's shots seem more balanced for close range, like a "second" C shot.
- one other thing that I liked in IaMP (besides having overall faster normals and -- with more normals than in SWR/Soku, more normal hitboxes to defend or attack with) was that high jump cancels were also faster in IaMP (at times, the one cornering his/her opponent can hjc and punish his/her opponent's hj with a melee, though he/she also risks losing the attack initiative, making him/her choose his next moves with more care), which also allowed me to use said hjcs to cut the recovery from using bullets on the ground (like with Yuyuko, for example). If I wanted to stay on the ground, I could follow said hjc with an airdash.
- lastly, I think, the bullets (regular and from specials) in IaMP were slower and covered a wider range (with relation to the screen size), but that's imho a difference in how both games are played. Soku seems to emphasize momentum more (blockstrings feel like they have bigger frame advantage, so the one defending has to try to escape, rather than having more options for countering), which would be why it's more difficult to get into your opponent in it through bullet cover. IaMP has (imho, once more) fun elements that aren't as obvious, while Soku/SWR are more friendly to beginners (who usually like cool graphics, facilities like autocombos and one-button supers and don't enjoy having to think about why he/she lost), but not limited to them.
- regarding Arcana, I like how I have useful normals (and also, how it feels that if I eat a combo, it feels fair because the combo was -- for the most part -- hitconfirmed, instead of autopiloting blockstrings -- the kind of play where the opponent plays the same way, no matter what his opponent may respond with) and thus have to mind about the neutral game I find to be so much fun. Also the creative character playstyles and the huge customization potential.
Like I said somewhere else, my guess is that, judging from the screenshots, the characters don't seem to be voiced.
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I doubt we'll ever get a voiced Touhou game, or at least an official one. There's bound to be a voice patch though, or at least I hope.
I wish I hadn't learned about that game's future arrival, now I'll be obsessing over it for months, if not a whole year >_>
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Soku seems to emphasize momentum more (blockstrings feel like they have bigger frame advantage, so the one defending has to try to escape, rather than having more options for countering), which would be why it's more difficult to get into your opponent in it through bullet cover. IaMP has (imho, once more) fun elements that aren't as obvious, while Soku/SWR are more friendly to beginners (who usually like cool graphics, facilities like autocombos and one-button supers and don't enjoy having to think about why he/she lost), but not limited to them.
This is an extraordinarily biased statement.
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Well I got one more piece of news to report from the same blog post that was from Tasofro since I went and asked a community to confirm the translation of the blog he also pointed out this...
I'd also like to add that in the last few lines he's saying that personally, he'd like to release some game play footage next, but he's also (jokingly) afraid that people would be like "why the hell are you making that kind of game" after seeing the game in motion.
Maybe this means the game mechanics are going to be pretty unorthodox (at least more so than the last game), and I've seen some japs speculate it's about the flight system; it might be confirming that the game is going to be like Psychic Force (or the last battle in Sanae's storyline in soku), with little to no grounded fighting at all.
Put that idea into your head for a bit.... Touhou: Psychic Force Style!
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Put that idea into your head for a bit.... Touhou: Psychic Force Style!
I absolutely adored Psychic Force. I have no problems if it's like that.
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This is an extraordinarily biased statement.
imho = in my humble opinion
In other words, he's admitting his bias ahead of time. Pointing it out is kinda redundant.
Also:
japs
Just want to point out that this word is considered a racial slur. I know the edgy folks on 4chan love tossing this word around but I'm glad it's not something that gets used here. I realize you're quoting someone, so I'm not pointing the finger at you. Just voicing my distaste for the word in general
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Just want to point out that this word is considered a racial slur. I know the edgy folks on 4chan love tossing this word around but I'm glad it's not something that gets used here. I realize you're quoting someone, so I'm not pointing the finger at you. Just voicing my distaste for the word in general
Well I tried to get rid of all the words that we're like this. But I missed that one I guess... Sorry about that. ^^; (He said it twice overall now.) I can still get rid of it if necessary.
But either way, since he supports the post I made regarding the game being in early stages in development, and the fact it's being built from the ground up it seem to make sense he also point out about the plans to show game play footage at some point.
But yeah when you put idea of what he mentions about the blog post and his idea together with the screenshots. It actually kinda makes sense. So that's why I'm anticipating that this fighter will likely be semi or completely flightless and possibly danmaku heavy. But this is another only time will tell case.
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So my prediction may be true then.
I dunno, I like their attempt at them being unique to the previous two fighters, so I'm quite curious to see how it'll turn out now.
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Like I said somewhere else, my guess is that, judging from the screenshots, the characters don't seem to be voiced.
Wait, "judging from the screenshots"? Even if the characters were voiced, how would you come to that deduction from the screenshots alone?
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"In the wake of so many incidents beyond their control, the Human Village has fallen into disorder and nihilism. Believing that religion can restore order, some of Gensokyo's most prominent adherents of Buddhism, Taoism and Shinto all want to take this chance to expand their particular faith's influence."
Ooh.
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"In the wake of so many incidents beyond their control, the Human Village has fallen into disorder and nihilism. Believing that religion can restore order, some of Gensokyo's most prominent adherents of Buddhism, Taoism and Shinto all want to take this chance to expand their particular faith's influence."
The final boss is Christopher Hitchens
.
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Oh my god, OHHH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. I'm so hyper cause of this. *Jump in a roll chair and go in a circle*. Hopefully new character <69
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This time i actually got excited about a new fighting game
reason being the story of this game play interacts the characters that will appear with the mixture of Religion
compare to the last fighting game,
they just randomly putting characters in the game and make up storys that nothing to do with the old TH 10.5 character :/
i might be wrong though but we will see how this will turn out \<OwO >/
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Wait, "judging from the screenshots"? Even if the characters were voiced, how would you come to that deduction from the screenshots alone?
I was joking about that sentence. How the characters' voices sound like, canonically, are (afaik) left open to interpretation, which seems good for fanworks (versatility, etc.), but that's just my bias, or opinion, or whatever it's called here.
I was thinking of something today. Tasofro might (as an option, mind you) focus on presenting characters that haven't appeared in previous fighting games to introduce new playstyles, and then (with more time) put an expansion/patch with the "veteran" characters, because if they invert this process (let's say, having most of the previous characters), it could be more difficult to make the game feel fresh (people could focus their attention on the differences/similarities between the moves/playstyle from this new game and the other ones and some could feel that they're playing "more of the same thing").
tl;dr: the opportunity is there, for the coming of lots of "new" characters in a touhou fighting game (with the revamp of sprites/backgrounds/code/system/etc.)
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"In the wake of so many incidents beyond their control, the Human Village has fallen into disorder and nihilism. Believing that religion can restore order, some of Gensokyo's most prominent adherents of Buddhism, Taoism and Shinto all want to take this chance to expand their particular faith's influence."
Ooh.
I like this idea for the story, fits well with TH12 and 13. I'm quite excited to see some gameplay or demos, and hopefully a release date :D.
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And also: KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNN :getdown:
That might actually be plausible.
PC-98 character plz
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Hermit...ARRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMM
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Hermit...ARRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMM
DAISHARIN HERMIT ARM!
Her final spell card makes her wrap the arm-bandages around herself (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwG3wL1Srco). :V
(a Lotus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqjLjo5iK8I) is fine too)
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Reimu is no longer grumpy (https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2720781137/c0f5cf1f29c12af272674701e4d77bfe.gif) (new twitter icon of Unabara, Tasofro's designer and leader).
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Reimu is no longer grumpy (https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2720781137/c0f5cf1f29c12af272674701e4d77bfe.gif) (new twitter icon of Unabara, Tasofro's designer and leader).
This has gotten me hyped all over again.
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This has gotten me hyped all over again.
I know that feeling, man :getdown:
That new image appears to be awfully "bouncy". Perhaps the gameplay IS in the air, as some have speculated. I am all for this idea~
Unless Reimu normally breathes that heavily. I am also all for happy Reimu... or, happier Reimu
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It's nice to see her happy for once, considering how grumpy she usually is.
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T-t-t-t-totally late to the party
Reimu is no longer grumpy (https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2720781137/c0f5cf1f29c12af272674701e4d77bfe.gif)
This looks marvelous <3
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idk why but I'd like to see Yuugi in this one.
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Reimu is no longer grumpy (https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2720781137/c0f5cf1f29c12af272674701e4d77bfe.gif) (new twitter icon of Unabara, Tasofro's designer and leader).
So does that make Reimu "the grump" and Marisa "the not so grump?"
Joking aside yes seeing that image has my hyped like crazy. Since I now know they are going for something rather detailed animation. (At least the ideal animation) I can see this is going to be an extensive work load. Now to wait for gameplay footage!
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Reimu is no longer grumpy (https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2720781137/c0f5cf1f29c12af272674701e4d77bfe.gif) (new twitter icon of Unabara, Tasofro's designer and leader).
Oh my god if I don't get this game I will die
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She looks slightly older, that awesome.
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She looks slightly older, that awesome.
Now that you mention it: isn't Reimu supposed to be in her twenties at this point? It has been almost ten years (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline#Year_118_.282003.29_-_Year_of_Moon.2C_Autumn.2C_and_Wood) since the scarlet devil incident; maybe this is ZUN wanting to age Reimu and Marisa up a little bit.
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Now that you mention it: isn't Reimu supposed to be in her twenties at this point? It has been almost ten years (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline#Year_118_.282003.29_-_Year_of_Moon.2C_Autumn.2C_and_Wood) since the scarlet devil incident; maybe this is ZUN wanting to age Reimu and Marisa up a little bit.
ZUN never gave an age to Reimu or Marisa because he doesn't want them to age. If they have no age, they can't age, according to him.
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ZUN never gave an age to Reimu or Marisa because he doesn't want them to age. If they have no age, they can't age, according to him.
I highly approve of this logic. :]
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(http://oi50.tinypic.com/ose9tk.jpg)
Grumpy loli Reimu ftw.
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You know, if anything, that hair makes me think of PC-98 Reimu. Back when she had 90s pop singer hair:
(http://i.imgur.com/a9Sb9.gif)
and
(http://i.imgur.com/PZLL5.png)
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ZUN never gave an age to Reimu or Marisa because he doesn't want them to age. If they have no age, they can't age, according to him.
This and also the fact that in one of the books it mentions that time flows in Gensokyo differently compared to the outside world since Yukari can view Cherry Blossoms falling twice a year on occasions.
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Heck, it's more reasonable an excuse that most main characters have for not aging (I've read series spanning years where the characters are all the same age...and are given an actual age as well).
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You know, if anything, that hair makes me think of PC-98 Reimu. Back when she had 90s pop singer hair:
Back when she had AWESOME HAIR you mean.
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The sprite tells me we're seeing floaty reimu. Whether that means permanently flying around or just floating on the ground but still 'standing', who knows.
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Back when she had AWESOME HAIR you mean.
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This and also the fact that in one of the books it mentions that time flows in Gensokyo differently compared to the outside world since Yukari can view Cherry Blossoms falling twice a year on occasions.
Yukari can view Cherry Blossoms falling twice a year because spring in Gensokyo isn't like spring in the human world; it's not at the same time. Gensokyo's time flows the same, only a bit later/earlier.
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That whole chapter was a reference to how the cherry blossoms in the actual real world have been blooming later and later. They used to bloom around the end of March and now it's closer to mid-/late-April.
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I always saw it as her seeing it in Gensokyo proper one day, then popping over to Yuyu's pad the next day to see more.
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I can actually see Shizuha being playable. SoPM states that she envies Minoriko's popularity, and this game is about grabbing the attention of humans, so...
In fact, all the deities barring Shinki may be playable, since this game is about battle of religions after all.
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I can actually see Shizuha being playable. SoPM states that she envies Minoriko's popularity, and this game is about grabbing the attention of humans, so...
That ain't gonna happen. Playable Akis would be too good to be true. :V
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That ain't gonna happen. Playable Akis would be too good to be true. :V
I'm crossing my fingers for all god and faith-related touhous to be playable.
ZUN will hear our prayers. I can feel it in my bones.
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I'd only want the Akis with a 2 vs 1 Ice Climbers-ish gimmick.
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My ideal lineup;
Hakurei and Kirisame (Obviously)
Maybe Sakuya
Sanae, even though I don't really like her
A Prismriver (Lunasa preferably)
Reisen
Kanako or Suwako
Mokou and Kaguya
A few th12/th13 characters (Unfortunately, I don't know much about them)
Oh, and Utsuho.
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I had a dream last night where the game was released and Kyouko was playable. I didn't even play the game, I just saw that and immediately jumped out of my chair to run outside and scream, "FUCK YES!"
As for the Aki Sisters, I honestly can't see one being playable without the other. I liked the idea of an Ice-Climber gimmick, but I wonder how it would work exactly. With only one health bar and all. The AI may not be reliable either, if that's the case.
What about Hina? She probably wouldn't have much of a reason for joining the fray, but she is a Goddess, no?
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If Hina is in it, I'll cry of joy.
As for the Aki sisters, I used to be open to multiple characters considered as a single one.
Until I played what's-it-called, where you could use the three fairies of light. Sounds useful, to be three instead of one right?
Unless it makes the opponent able to beat up three weak, powerless characters sharing one health bar at once, making the match last no less than 3 seconds.
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There are lots of fighting games with double characters. Usually you control one and have moves that control the other, like Devo in Jojo or Carl in Blazblue.
Or you could even have it be like that, but be able to have them switch places, like Hisui + Kohaku in Melty.
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Something like Sakutaro and Ange would also work well if we had an Aki sister combo and would fit the whole 'aspect of gods' thing we already have with Suwako.
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There are lots of fighting games with double characters. Usually you control one and have moves that control the other, like Devo in Jojo or Carl in Blazblue.
Or you could even have it be like that, but be able to have them switch places, like Hisui + Kohaku in Melty.
Yeah, that's the right way to do it. I was responding to the ice-climbers idea, as THEY are both out and hittable at the same time. I really want the Aki sisters in the game, and it would make a LOT of sense for them to be in it.
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There are ways to make all varieties of double team characters work.
"Standby and Tag out" Types, where the two characters serve effectively as a stance character with some variety in how they are tagged out. If they tag in and out into the same place it really is like a stance character 1:1, but if one is in standby and the tag out starts controling them from their own position, you get something like Hisui/Kohaku with back and forth juggle combos. This kind is the simplest to balance since it is in most ways the same as a tried and true stance change character; just make sure neither one of the characters cover matchups perfectly over the other.
"Carl" Types, for lack of a better word, where the primary character has their own moveset, and the other character acts as an extension of the first's moveset by standing by, teleporting in for various assist moves, or otherwise being given orders by the primary character. AquaPazza is full of Carl Type assists. This kind is also quite easy to balance since the design by itself lends to complex set ups and an intensely strong neutral game. Just ensure that the reward for their strong neutral game is on the lower side and they'll have to make use of their better traits just as every other character does to compensate, with the added benefit being that those better traits are some of the most important ones in the game.
Constantly Active or "Ice Climber" Types- where both characters are always out with an active hitbox and can be tossed around and comboed individually with impunity. This kind of character is difficult to balance, but very possible; it is just difficult to balance because it is the newest variety of double team character base out there so nothing has been tried and proven. I feel that the important thing about making this kind of character is to ensure that if the characters are designed such that they can be seperated, or that one can be killed before the other, that the single character still needs traits and a workable moveset to put in work necessary to do small setups and short rewards. They have to work harder and use their neutral game to the best, knowing that they can not get super powerful rewards. So they have to be competent on their own, with a weak reward game- Very Low Risk, Very Low Reward, if you want to think of it that way. On the other hand, when the character is twofold, they have to be carefully made such that they do not get too strong of a reward either, or the strong neutral game the character has has no drawback. So this character base comes down to three aspects- Keep them from being too good with both characters present, keep them from being too horrible with only one character, and keep both states of the character differentiated in favour of wanting to keep both of them. You can see why this is difficult to balance, because these aspects are almost contradictory. Well that is why it helps to look at this character in the Risk vs Reward sense. With one character, they are a low risk, low reward character that has to work hard to get multiple smaller hits over a long period of time; They get easy hits in but they aren't super threatening by themself, and one small mistake can mean the opponent gets the opening to do a more rewarding combo on them. With two characters, they are still effectively the same low risk, so the simple question is, how good should their reward be with two characters? You make them low risk high reward and they can roflstomp most of the cast and get beaten by the other small portion- they become a polarising design, not very fun at all for either party. Myself? I think the best reward is still a little on the lower side, and only marginally better than with one character. The reason being that with two, the task of getting single hits becomes much easier, and setups become a simple affair, so they become a very low risk character, knowing that they have more lenience than other characters are allowed. So the goals are then, hopefully, met well- With two characters they are a high-tier character, and with one, they are still a solid Mid-Tier that is far from helpless. All the second character does is make it a little bit easier for the player, a little brace to fall back on, so to say.
I can't think of any other double team varieties myself, but anyone else is welcome to comment on the archtype.
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II didn't elaborate earlier, but Ange and Sakutaro from the Umineko game are a sorta pseudo dollmaster (which is what Carl is) type. The assist is summoned with a special and only stays out for a limited time, meaning the character generally becomes a lot more threatening for those short moments; Ange's combos extend and her pressure is ridiculous while Sakutaro is out. You could kinda consider Sanae to be like this, if you run alt214 suwako trap and alt623 wind tunnel; the game changes drastically while Sanae. Has those two out.
Dlanor from the same game and the miko from Arcana Heart (name escapes me) are projectile types, where her specials are actually the assists. The extra characters are glorified projectiles; Sanae in soku and Phoenix Wright from UMvC3 are like this. Not much to comment on except that projectiles of this sort tend to be stronger but have a cooldown period, like Sanae again, to compensate. This would probably work good for Byakuren.
Mostly good analysis there iK. Good example of the ice climbers type are, well, the ice climbers. They were lackustre until people discovered the chain grabs and disjoints, but we all know how bad a solo ice climber is. Some of the characters from P4 arena (Yukiko in partixular) are a newer example of this type that work well, and some may consider the dollmaster type to be a subtype of this one. To be honest, I think such characters need to be high risk high reward just to compensate for the complexity, not easy low rewards just for existing. In general assist ype characters are high risk high reward: Sanae's game is crippled in comparison to others without her gods, Carl has the lowest hp in all of BB, Ange's normals have very odd spacing and her other specials are all telegraphed, etc. This shouldnt change with a iceclimbers like character, or else it's just boring. Lowrisk low reward, slow chipdown characters are boring to watch and play.
comeon tasofro, random yamame. Make me happy.
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What about Hina? She probably wouldn't have much of a reason for joining the fray, but she is a Goddess, no?
Akyuu claims that Hina's not really a god because she doesn't require faith. She's just a friendly type of youkai that eats misfortune.
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Akyuu claims that Hina's not really a god because she doesn't require faith. She's just a friendly type of youkai that eats misfortune.
...I forgot about that. So much for Hina... :qq: Even though doing it without any obligations or desire for faith just shows how much of an awesomely nice person she is.
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If Hina is in she'd better have Hinaface for her taunt animation or all is for naught.
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Maybe Parsee will be in this game for being jealous of all the faith gatherers 'cause they got more faith than her XD probably won't since she has to watch the bridge and all that
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probably won't since she has to watch the bridge and all that
Ultimate Attack: She summons the bridge and smashes it on the heads of the unbelievers!
*Ahem* Probably not. Still, I'd like to have a character from SA. Any of them.
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Ultimate Attack: She summons the bridge and smashes it on the heads of the unbelievers!
Bridge Sign: Gotta Smash 'em All!
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Koishi will be in the game so she can be curious about the other religions while
stealing all their sweets and delicious foods Byakuren finds her and tries to take her in :V
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Koishi will be in the game so she can be curious about the other religions while stealing all their sweets and delicious foods Byakuren finds her and tries to take her in :V
Koishi can pretty much be put in any and every plot. Seriously, just write ''So she's wandering around, people try to talk to her, she fights them, she goes on'' and you can make an entire story. The fact she can be placed in any game ever only makes me disappointed when I see she's completely missing in 95 % of every fan games.
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Koishi will be in the game so she can be curious about the other religions while stealing all their sweets and delicious foods Byakuren finds her and tries to take her in :V
Again? Well, Koishi's a free spirit so she wasn't technically taken in to begin with.
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Koishi can pretty much be put in any and every plot. Seriously, just write ''So she's wandering around, people try to talk to her, she fights them, she goes on'' and you can make an entire story. The fact she can be placed in any game ever only makes me disappointed when I see she's completely missing in 95 % of every fan games.
What are you talking about? She's in more than half of them, don't you remember? :V
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What are you talking about? She's in more than half of them, don't you remember? :V
Don't remember :derp: Name some please.
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Don't remember :derp: Name some please.
They were probably saying she could be in any of them but hiding her presence.
I'm not really into the fighters, but I think she could be intteresting if she had some sort of quirk where some of her abilities could make her unnoticed by the opposing character(translating to her attacks being unblockable or something but weaker for a length of time) or something.
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They were probably saying she could be in any of them but hiding her presence.
I'm not really into the fighters, but I think she could be intteresting if she had some sort of quirk where some of her abilities could make her unnoticed by the opposing character(translating to her attacks being unblockable or something but weaker for a length of time) or something.
I feel stupid now.
Reisen had her invisibility in Hisoutensoku, but that's the sad part of invisibility in fighting games; The AI still knows where you are, and in order for you to know where you are, so does your opponent. I say either make them weaker and unblockable, or make them always score a ''Counter'' hit. (Which does more damage and knockback).
If Koishi appears, I demand 4th wall breaking.
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Another especulation that I have (actually it's a possibility that I take into consideration in every work that ZUN isn't the one making the drawings) is the insertion of MEN in the game. As much as I myself find it unkely , it is still a possibility and I welcome the idea of having more male humans/youkai with humanoid form in the touhouverse.
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"Carl" Types, for lack of a better word
Lieselotte types, you mean :( (sounds a possibility for Alice, Yukari/Ran and Seiga)
speaking of assist types, I'd like either Kanako to be playable, or to be *more* integral/useful to Sanae's gameplay (like, for example, Maori).
Also, this game needs at least one grappler. (in b4 Suika sucks)
Bridge Sign: Gotta Smash 'em All!
Bakabakabakabakabaka!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LboZtnRLVlw&t=3m02s)
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I feel stupid now.
Reisen had her invisibility in Hisoutensoku, but that's the sad part of invisibility in fighting games; The AI still knows where you are, and in order for you to know where you are, so does your opponent. I say either make them weaker and unblockable, or make them always score a ''Counter'' hit. (Which does more damage and knockback).
If Koishi appears, I demand 4th wall breaking.
You have to take into account the actual player versus player though. Reisen had sick wakeup game because of that invisibility; jump into overheads, jump into double overhead, empty jump into low, empty jump into overhead...the invisibility itself was a great asset and we can't just balance based on the AI.
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Comparing how players are compared to AI isn't really the point of the characters, because AI is cheap no matter what because it can read you based on your own inputs. Hell, even pros have trouble against the hardest difficulty AI of any fighters.
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You have to take into account the actual player versus player though. Reisen had sick wakeup game because of that invisibility; jump into overheads, jump into double overhead, empty jump into low, empty jump into overhead...the invisibility itself was a great asset and we can't just balance based on the AI.
Still, if her ability in Hisou would just have been insibility it would've been useless. While you can trick to a certain amount the opponent, the bullet phasing thing is what made it worthwhile in my opinion.
I remember this game where Koishi was a playable character and during battle, she could go to a downed opponent, do Ancestors Sleeping Besides Your Bed (to deal damage) and then become 100% invisible. The thing is, she didn't just go invisible, her dash attack became a powerful AoE which summoned rings of spinning roses around her.
My point being, if Koishi had invisibility in a fighting game, please add a little extra.
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Well, I really only mentioned the Ice Climbers because I wouldn't tolerate the Akis taking more than one slot, the Akis fighting like them is a funny image, and there are a few other potential combinations that could use various gimmicks to differentiate between them. Not that I would actually expect it to happen for a variety of reasons. But the way I imagine the characters, you have Ichirin & Unzan (hitbox Ichirin basically), Seiga & Yoshika (switch), and Miko, Futo & Tojiko (albeit just an assist type like Sanae), all as different possibilities.
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I think we're bound to see a Yoshika X Seiga tag-team. We've never seen more than 1 solo Seiga spell and it would be silly to make them different characters as Yoshika is nothing but a (literal) mindless slave to Seiga's desires; It's not like Sakuya and Remilia, where one could have different intentions than the other while being her loyal servant.
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If Koishi appears, I demand 4th wall breaking.
Now I'm envisioning Koishi hitting the enemy with an attack, then as part of its effect shooting at the person's actual life bar for the damage, instead of doing all of it to the opposing character. Weird.
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Now I'm envisioning Koishi hitting the enemy with an attack, then as part of its effect shooting at the person's actual life bar for the damage, instead of doing all of it to the opposing character. Weird.
You can punch your friend in real life too, it works wonderfully :D
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When did Koishi has to do with fourth wall breaking?
Anyway, I'm still convinced that at least the final boss will be a new character. Chaos is happening in the Human Village, which is why the religious sanctions are trying to obtain popularity to calm down everyone. Obviously, someone has to start the chaos first, and that "someone" is surely the final boss.
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When did Koishi has to do with fourth wall breaking?
Anyway, I'm still convinced that at least the final boss will be a new character. Chaos is happening in the Human Village, which is why the religious sanctions are trying to obtain popularity to calm down everyone. Obviously, someone has to start the chaos first, and that "someone" is surely the final boss.
Every game ever introduced at least one new character, save for FW and StB/DP. I can't wait to see who it is! With Forbidden Scrollery, we're bound to get another new one too.
Koishi is kind of the fourth wall breaking girl by excellence, due to the ''Koishi can rape your mind'' jokes. Koishi's Hell certainly pushed people toward Koishi's fourth wall jokes. The general idea is that she's messing with YOUR subconscious, like how Kogasa is actually surprising YOU.
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Mostly good analysis there iK. Good example of the ice climbers type are, well, the ice climbers. They were lackustre until people discovered the chain grabs and disjoints, but we all know how bad a solo ice climber is. Some of the characters from P4 arena (Yukiko in partixular) are a newer example of this type that work well, and some may consider the dollmaster type to be a subtype of this one. To be honest, I think such characters need to be high risk high reward just to compensate for the complexity, not easy low rewards just for existing. In general assist ype characters are high risk high reward: Sanae's game is crippled in comparison to others without her gods, Carl has the lowest hp in all of BB, Ange's normals have very odd spacing and her other specials are all telegraphed, etc. This shouldnt change with a iceclimbers like character, or else it's just boring. Lowrisk low reward, slow chipdown characters are boring to watch and play.
comeon tasofro, random yamame. Make me happy.
Ice Climbers are pretty low risk in practice. They are highly technically demanding though, and making mistakes gets them punished a lot, so they have either their mobility in Melee, or their walling ability in Brawl, to stay safely just in that golden range just far enough to avoid an attack, and just close enough to move back in and hit the opponent. That is what makes them low risk. How difficult the character is has no matter on what they are able to do.
I wouldn't say low risk characters are boring to play or watch, in the same series, the best characters in the game are so because they have so many safe options. I find it hard to call Fox, Falco, Sheik, or Peach boring to play. It's characters that lack safe options that are more boring, like Captain Falcon, who has to rely on waiting for his opponent to overextend themselves before he can start anything. He's a high risk character because he has so many combos that work specifically on him, so his game comes down to running back and forth hoping the opponent takes the bait and attacks too aggressively.
It works similarly for pretty much every other fighting game too, but I know specific examples for Smash since I'm so invested in the series. The only other metagame I've looked much into at all is Blazblue, where the entire game is momentum based and single hitconfirms lead into setting the controller down as you get comboed for 40 seconds, so that game also revolves around trying to stay safe and keep spacing since every little mistake has such a big impact.
Playing as safely and as intelligently as possible is the inevitable conclusion of any metagame. Low Risk Low Reward means the game revolves around making these intelligent decisions more often. Making mistakes should always mean you'll be punished moderately, but when the entire game is high risk, high reward, the game revolves around who makes two or three small mistakes first. And when humans are playing, there are bound to be mistakes made- not quite randomly, but with still a low degree of control over the environment such that it really does come down to a single accident leading to absurd punishment. If someone really wants the epitome of high risk, high reward, there's always Dive Kick :P
But yeah, I value a high degree decision making leading to many individual hits and smaller rewards, since instead of the game being delegated to who hits first, it comes down to who can consistently make smart decisions multiple times. That's probably another part of why I like Soku and Smash so much, and why I use a Lei-Lei team in Marvel in spite of her being crap tier.
+1 to random Yamame
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Another especulation that I have (actually it's a possibility that I take into consideration in every work that ZUN isn't the one making the drawings) is the insertion of MEN in the game. As much as I myself find it unkely , it is still a possibility and I welcome the idea of having more male humans/youkai with humanoid form in the touhouverse.
Unlikely since ZUN still makes the characters and Tasofro team just make the artwork and all we know that ZUN likes so much overpowered girls in his games
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Still, if her ability in Hisou would just have been insibility it would've been useless. While you can trick to a certain amount the opponent, the bullet phasing thing is what made it worthwhile in my opinion.
I remember this game where Koishi was a playable character and during battle, she could go to a downed opponent, do Ancestors Sleeping Besides Your Bed (to deal damage) and then become 100% invisible. The thing is, she didn't just go invisible, her dash attack became a powerful AoE which summoned rings of spinning roses around her.
My point being, if Koishi had invisibility in a fighting game, please add a little extra.
I would debate that. As a fighting game player, I debate that hard. If I have to react to a mixup, that's one thing. But if I can't see the actual mixup, that's another thing entirely. In terms of actual, competitive fighting gaming, real invisibility is an absurd thing. Soku and IaMP are weird in that if you wrong block you don't immediately get guard broken, but every other fighting game on the market is like that, and even still you get heavily punished for wrong blocking in Soku and IaMP.
When Reisen has you in knockdown, she has a lot of options to hit you with.
>low jump 2a (overhead)
>low jump 5a>6a (double overhead)
>low jump 5a>land>6a (double overhead but landed)
>low jump, does nothing in air, 2a or 3a when he hits the ground (low, possibly guardbreak if charged 3a)
>charged 3a (low guardbreak)
>charged 6a (high guardbreak)
this is ignoring the possibility of crossups, which are also complete guardbreaks.
I can react to most of those on sight, but if she's invisble I can't. And if I get guardbroken, she confirms into a full combo and we go into the Reisen blender again. The phasing was always superfluous because it was to be used after a knockdown anyway; work fast enough and they won't have time to use bullets.
From a non-competitive standpoint I do see where you're coming from though, but I'm deeply invested in comp fighting games and invisibility is one of the stupidest things to give a character. Arakune from BB stands out, except he stands out for other reasons too. (FULLSSCREEN PROJECTILES AND TELEPORTS CROSSING UP YOUR SHIT ALL DAY)
+1 to random Yamame
brofist. But I can't commentate on Smash, not a whole lot of knowledge on it. I wouldn't use it as an example to compare other fighting games though; most are like Blazblue where you get one bit of momentum and it snowballs, and most have mechanics to disencourage that sort of gameplay you described with Captain Falcon. (Negative from P4A and BB) Even street fighter is based on repeated situations that put you in a favorable spot, which is effectively the same thing just not classified as a 'combo'. The El Fuerte blender is really just a glorified combo, for example, and so would the Ibuki blender. If you want a high reward, you should get a high risk. If you want low risk, you get little rewards. Basic comboing in all fighting games reflect this; a 2a or 5a is always a bad combo starter due to proration, but a j5c is generally always a really great combo starter.
Low risk low reward is like watching Dhalsim, Nu, Ragna, or Valkenhayn. (Nu, Ragna and Valk are more low risk high reward though)
High risk high reward is like any grappler, which is hype at a high enough level where such characters are bad because everyone knows how to open them up. MikeZ taking tournaments with Tager, or any grappler using their grab super to make a comeback, for example.
The meta and mechanics of Smash is just in such a weird spot where characters like that are the more interesting ones to watch, whereas most other fighting games aren't. Low risk low reward is like...you can make more mistakes and it's like 'oh w/e'. High risk high reward means you're always on the edge of your seat, waiting for someone to fuck up. I don't want to spend eight to ten minutes in one first to five match, I want 40 second rounds of high action. HOnestly I don't suggest bringing smash into any sort of ftg comparison and discussion, you'll get laughed at. No joke.
tiers in marvel are bullshit, just learn your character and you'll open up anyone who doesn't know how to deal with anyone besides hawkeye/zero/vergil/wesker/doom/magneto/spencer/dormammu/etc. god my phoenix/strange/arthur team is silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpuW-Mo3YTY
Take this. Four games of best to two, taking ten minutes in total. Guy is a high risk high reward sorta guy with a blender that he shows really well at around 0:45, while Dictator is low risk low reward with his scissor kick. Which am I rooting for? Guy. See that ExRun at the end that soaked up the scissor kick with it's super armor which led to an Ultra punish? That was ballsy as fuck, as high a risk as I've seen and fucking hype. Safe options make a character good, but make them too obnoxious and it's just boring. Strategic, yes. Hadoken spam is crucial to Ryu and Gouken and so on. But it doesn't make for interesting characters until will reach the hype involved with low tier vs high tier or bad matchups. Guile has literally two special moves, which is at the very least one less than everyone else, but he becomes really fun to watch when he's up against a bad matchup like...I forget. My SF is rusty.
Long story short, a low risk low reward scheme for ALL the characters or most will be bad imo. One or two being that way could be interesting, but BBCT had Nu, Rachel, and Arakune out of the...twelve? And that was boring to watch swarm all the netplay for months until CS came and smashed them all into the ground with the nerfbat. ('cept ara)
this has been your scheduled ftg faggotry by Amra
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Carl is also pretty low risk, low reward until absolute silly circumstantial setups happen; he gets that luxury by being so mobile while also having frametraps, without overly obnoxious rewards from it.
Make a cast of high risk high reward and you get a cast of skewed, lopsided, and polarized matchups because there's no long-term decision making that has to be made and every matchup difference is exaggerated to an absurd degree.
I dunno, I just prefer a game coming to several smart decisions made consciously and with consistency over two mistakes being ggpo. It also seems silly to me that the timer would be allowed to be 99 seconds if the "preferred" playstyle causes matches to be over in less than 30.
I think we're looking at the idea behind risk and reward as it applies to too many different archetypes. Dhalsim, Rachel, Arakune, and Nu are blatant zoning characters that, given that they could have their way, would stay in a single place for an entire fight pushing the opponent out with their range. Low Risk-Low Reward and projectile heavy/spammy characters are not one in the same. Any character that is highly mobile, or with safe options on block to avoid punishment at all low-risk as well. All Low-Risk means is that the character doesn't have to over-dedicate themselves and buy a wedding ring for their approach.
There's more to playing safe and keeping your options low-risk than playing keepaway, and the stigma associated with "playing lame/homo" just sounds like excuses people make because they can't break through or counter the strategy. Instead of adapting or finding a counter-strategy, we just deem that kind of character or playstyle "gay," to still win in our minds, because that's the easier solution.
Personally, I find rushdown lame. I work so hard to try and spot each action to block in properly and poke and prod and go for hard reads all game, and then you just rush in with a muscle memory cookie cutter mixup and take off 2/3 of my health bar with a combo also sewn into muscle memory? The level of decision making and amount of decisions to be made is so low when every time two characters with half-bar combos go against each other; neither one can make the right choice at the same time, so whichever makes the wrong first move is then put at such a disadvantageous position that they can potentially never recover in the match. At that point you may as well just play a round of Rock Paper Scissors to decide the winner.
But people like seeing that they did 83 consecutive hits and 1.2 Billion damage, so these kinds of things are always going to be prevalent in the genre.
Serious philosophical conversations about competitive videogaming going on in here.
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It ain't Mahvel if it ain't broke :V
At least it's more balanced than Marvel 2 :V
Also, the hell stop talking Smash here we all know the Smash series ain't a serious fighting game. lolseriouspartygames
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It ain't Mahvel if it ain't broke :V
At least it's more balanced than Marvel 2 :V
Also, the hell stop talking Smash here we all know the Smash series ain't a serious fighting game. lolseriouspartygames
So true :getdown:
For invisibility effects, I'd probably quote GG's Chipp - he has one such move in his arsenal, but is still quite visible when using that.
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In all honesty if Seiga would be a pair with Yoshika it'd be more than likely Yoshika will be used like Ran being used by Yukari. She's more of her familiar than anything.
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Every game ever introduced at least one new character, save for FW and StB/DP. I can't wait to see who it is! With Forbidden Scrollery, we're bound to get another new one too.
I said that because some people think the plot for this game doesn't call for the need of new characters, since it's about the religious factions fighting for popularity, not someone starting an incident. Either they missed out the chaos being caused part or think whoever caused the chaos won't be showing up at all.
Also, the hell stop talking Smash here we all know the Smash series ain't a serious fighting game. lolseriouspartygames
I absolutely love the SSB series, but I agree that isn't a serious fighting game, only a casual party game. However, you should probably avoid saying anything about SSB not being a serious fighter in front of people who take the series seriously... You can start a war just by bringing that up...
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My God... why not just release 14 instead of this fighting game?
I have nothing against playing fighting game but, Touhou fighting game is too hard to play compared to other ones.
And yes before you ask, I suck at fighting games and I hate most of them except for some good ones that are "beginner/nooby-friendly".
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My God... why not just release 14 instead of this fighting game?
I have nothing against playing fighting game but, Touhou fighting game is too hard to play compared to other ones.
And yes before you ask, I suck at fighting games and I hate most of them except for some good ones that are "beginner/nooby-friendly".
:wat: I have never been able to complete a main Touhou game, but I beat SWR and Soku with every character on my first try, working out the moves as I went.
What I'd give for the ability to destroy bullets by dashing through them in a danmaku game...
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My God... why not just release 14 instead of this fighting game?
ZUN probably hasn't worked on 14 at all with all the stuff that's been going on in his life. (wedding, books, drinking) The fighting game series aren't made by ZUN, so his business doesn't really interfere with it's production.
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What I'd give for the ability to destroy bullets by dashing through them in a danmaku game...
Oh, you destroy bullets that way. It's a Double KO.
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What I'd give for the ability to destroy bullets by dashing through them in a danmaku game...
Play Ten Desires. It has a feature where you press C and then you can freely move through all the bullets you want. Can't exactly destroy them but you won't die and that's the important part right?
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I absolutely love the SSB series, but I agree that isn't a serious fighting game, only a casual party game. However, you should probably avoid saying anything about SSB not being a serious fighter in front of people who take the series seriously... You can start a war just by bringing that up...
Well, Smash is a fighting and party game by definition, and what you can use the term "competitive" (or serious in this way) on depends on a game's own community as far as I'm concerned.
Therefore, I would like to state that a game theory for fighting games based in Smash should not be completely ignored. However, one in a more traditional game is probably better to use in this case.
And how did that discussion even get from abilities to combos and in-depth character analysis to in-depth character type analysis? :wat:
But it's the internet
I'm hoping for Nue, Ichirin, etc. to come in on Byakuren's side for this game. Nue'd probably be really fun to play with using those UFOs; perhaps delayed attacks that take the form of a UFO when initially put out? Mamizou can do something like that as well, or maybe specialize in creating an annoyance out of slowly-moving projectiles like one of R/Len's specials in Melty Blood. Though, my experience with fighting games isn't at too great of a level, so some of what I put out may be plain silly to others.
For Miko, perhaps a Seiga/Yoshika team of some sort, which has probably been brought up a bunch of times, and Futo. Seiga could maybe be more like the type to not do much herself and have Yoshika do most attacks for her, similar to Seiga's spell cards with Yoshika in where the threatening part of the bullets seems to usually come from her. Futo gets to have fun shooting arrows from an amazing boat and burning down shrines (and a temple). :derp:
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And if we get a bunch of low r/r characters making up the cast we end up with minute long poke fests that don't end with anything interesting.
Let's talk another game, since I've long since forgotten anything related to Blazblue beyond the fact that everyone is high r/r at this point, and it works pretty alright. Risk isn't only in opening yourself up with bad recovery moves and badly timed mixups or minute long combos, it's also playing the character or being put into a mixup blender. I really disagree with you on Carl being low risk, because just playing him is opening yourself up to dying in two combos and no reversals beyond the easily punishable vivace roll. Offensively he's great, and that's the reward, but just being the character is the counter risk. Not to mention that he has one or two normals that are completely useless at this point (2c and possibly 6c)
Again, BB is mostly low risk high reward for most characters now. Jin is a good low r/r character, but he's not very good in comparison now.
MOVING ON, different game. Melty Blood. H-Kohaku? Low damage but amazingly good everything else. She puts you into the corner and you stay there over the course of many low damage combos due to how many mixup options she has. Each individual choice my be low r/r (in actuality high risk low reward), but the situation in general is high r/r. Once you block or react to the mixup correctly, Kohaku gets taken out. Melty is not a game of one or two long combos (unless C-Sacchin or F-Miyako), it's about momentum and continuously taking risks to further your momentum. You could argue that's low r/r, but in the long scheme it's high r/r. My main C-Nanaya is entirely based around that, and I'm taking a high risk just by being him because of his tools. I have no spacing tools, all my teleports are punishable, etc. Even games that aren't really fighting games like Dark Souls PvP are riveting because of high r/r; every move has a chance of being parried and riposted.
I can understand where you're coming from, being a Smash player where combos don't really happen to the same level. But other ftg players look at smash and get just as confused at all the one-hit=possible ko going on. With most other ftgs, not only is skill needed to hit, but to confirm and finish the combo. That's another risk.
Timers on ftgs are jokes at this point tbh and don't ever really conform to actual seconds.
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Play Ten Desires. It has a feature where you press C and then you can freely move through all the bullets you want. Can't exactly destroy them but you won't die and that's the important part right?
Ramming bullets during invincibility frames also works.
Of course I'm excited about the new game too! :D
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My main C-Nanaya is entirely based around that, and I'm taking a high risk just by being him because of his tools. I have no spacing tools, all my teleports are punishable, etc.
A character with an Another Arc Drive ridiculous enough to cover almost the entire screen (vertically as well), be unblockable/unshieldable AND take away half of your lifebar ain't what I would ever dare to call "high risk". I sometimes resort to Ciel's asshole counter if my sparring partner abuses it, since it comes out on top :V.
And I was under an impression that Nanaya has better neutral game that Tohno (wiki states he has more mixup and movement options), and unless I'm missing something, Tohno is basically Ragna. Adding Nanaya's evil pressure to that, I never noticed the risk to playing him, but I suck anyway. Just inquiring.
And I always felt that low risk and low reward characters such as Sakuya or Reisen are more interesting on account of their copious options for pressure and area control, as opposed to Okuu (and to a lesser degree Yuyuko), who have to fly around spamming and hope for their chance to approach, or counter stupid approaches.
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This made extremely small to stop wasting space on a Touhou fighter thread with talk about other fighters, but it's part of my argument. Also extremely easy to just dodge, shield, or backjump/high jump and immensely punishable afterwards. It's high risk because it's :fucking horrible: for what it achieves: ie a 4.5k damage thing I could've gotten with a normal EX-combo that wastes about 400% less effective meter. Also, Blood Heat? On a Crescent character? Using Blood Heat at all? I just denied myself 200% meter and the chance to go into Max again with only one combo. Arc Drives and Another Arc Drives are shit unless your name is Satsuki (absurd damage air/ground unblockable grab), Kouma (again grab and even then situational), HKohaku (burn the rest of your Heat for circuit break WHICH ALSO MEANS AD IS BETTER THAN AAD), or FArchetype Earth (same except we have MAX instead of Heat). Last Arcs are similarly situational and impractical; you burn way too much for too little. The fact that CIel doesn't even have to counter super to stop it says something about how 'good' it is.
Nanaya is :not: Ragna, his comparable damage output doesn't even come :close: and his game plan isn't even remotely similar. Nanaya can barely even break 4k on most moons without burning meter, and Ragna doesn't need to put half his effort into combos that Nanaya does, and Nanaya doesn't get the absurd Oki Ragna gets just by existing. Not to mention Nanaya, as I've been implying with everything above, isn't even a good rushdown character if he even IS a rushdown character.
Comparing Tohno's zoning to Nanaya's isn't entirely relevant because both of them really suck at getting in unless F-Nanaya with bullshit WARUI NE, but FNanaya pays for that divekick with either oki or damage. Your only real escape option once put into the corner is 623 kick, and everyone knows about that at this point in time. In neutral? What the hell are you going to do to make entry safe? Kouma has either 623a flame kick or his retardedly powerful 2b antiair, not to mention his Grab series and command dashes. VAkiha has an extra air dash and flame pits in addition to flametongues, Ciel has projectiles and better, safer movement, Kohaku has bombs/plants/etc...Nanaya is not a very good character in any situation but offensive pressure once he's gotten in.
Sakuya is :not: low r/r, she's low risk high reward. Watch any japanese tournament footage and you'll understand what I mean. Reisen, as I mentioned earlier, might be low r/r but as I mentioned with some of her bullshit involving 623 invis and her absurd blockstrings, which I didn't mention, she's also more low risk high reward. Soku in general is a bad example for this because much of the gameplay in general is low r/r until we get into close range, and even then you're not punished nearly as badly in Soku for a wrong block as any other fighter. (Though I know some argue how badly a broken spirit meter is, I'd certainly prefer that over a 3-4k confirm to the face)
I think there's a fundamental difference in what I consider low r/r and what you or someone else may. When I say low r/r, I mean a character that has mostly safe options that can confirm into low damage without much risk to himself, which is why I mentioned Dhalsim and Nu. These characters aren't necessarily zoners, though the archetypes do tend to go hand in hand because zoners are just safe; Erika from the Umineko fighter is another example of low r/r with all her amazing options to get in, but bad damage ouput. Some Melty characters are low r/r if you're just looking at damage output: the FKouma (...>6c>j[c]>j[c]>land623a) blender is somewhat easy to confirm on a basic level, but its reward is mostly based on the absurd okizeme FKouma gets off it.
well back on topic to Hopeless. What I'm hoping for is that everyone has a coherent gameplan that's interesting to watch and play, rather than just something like 'hurr durr I'm sakuya enjoy being double guardbroken half of the game and dead the rest', or 'hi I'm Iku good luck getting close to me'. I don't mind zoners really, or any sort of character. It's just boring when I watch a character win a game with no risk to him or herself because of how low risk everything they do is. Soku was just badly balanced.
and Yuyuko is also low risk high reward, have you seen the shit she pulls when she has you in the corner? One of Japan's top 10 Alice's got beaten by a Yuyuko that wasn't even ranked.
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While I agree Okuu is based on countering the opponent's errors, Yuyuko can, if used correctly, assault the opponent with a powerful and relentless assault of attacks. She's slow, yes, but unlike Okuu, can attack without getting punished at every attacks.
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I always thought Yuyuko was a keep-away/zoning character. She definitely has the tools with all the butterfly/ghost projectiles she can shoot at once.
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I always thought Yuyuko was a keep-away/zoning character. She definitely has the tools with all the butterfly/ghost projectiles she can shoot at once.
She can be a devastating close range fighter, if you memorize the moves. Most of her melee attacks summon huge pink butterflies, making the range very good and the hitbox stay much longer than, say, a kick from Reimu. You can throw around the opponent happily and then blast him with the 236 special. Her spellcards are also very useful at close range, easily countering and blocking attacks. She's a good keep-away character too, which makes her deadly.
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The best characters tend to be ones that don't have to stick to one playstyle. Adaptability is a huge factor that makes characters as well as players, do well.
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The best characters tend to be ones that don't have to stick to one playstyle. Adaptability is a huge factor that makes characters as well as players, do well.
Exactly, a character with a style very defined can only end up being powerful against other character with opposable play styles and completely defenseless against everything else. It's so much more fun to play with adaptable character too; I love using Reimu and Sakuya on UNL; I may not be that good at using them, but they're very fun to play; losing using them doesn't feel like your opponent just used a character that was good against those, it feels like a clean match and I'm happy anyway.
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disagree with you two, unless you're talking about "best" as in "funniest" (which is more subjective) instead of "more effective".
Speaking of Yuyuko, I like her projectiles in IaMP, the range of her melee moves (which, combined with said butterflies, are fun to use) and her yuyuflip (which requires good reading to at least not whiff it -- you can't cancel it if you do) and overall prefer neutral game over momentum game (given that I'm bad with memorizing things such as blockstrings, setups and etc but have instead -- or so I think -- learned to compensate with better-than-average defense reaction and pattern reading). I wish I had a better memory for said blockstrings and setups, so I could do these myself too.
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disagree with you two, unless you're talking about "best" as in "funniest" (which is more subjective) instead of "more effective".
A character with a style can be effective, like Reisen's illusory moves or Suwako's unpredictable behavior. A character with a ridiculously emphasized playstyle isn't too great. Utsuho in UNL is great to do damage with few hits... and that's it. She loses on ever other aspects of fighting.
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A cast of extremes is also a cast of polarised matchups which makes it very hard for either player to really feel the fight is fair. Like if I use Mu against Tager and he just can't do a thing to get in, it just feels like a free bye to me. The other way around it's a painful experience trying to just take a step forward. Matches are a lot more enjoyable when both characters have a moderate chance. Occasional hard counters are fine, but making a cast of drastic extremes causes these to compose more matchups than they should.
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All I can say is thank god it's not reusing the IaMP engine. It also looks like it'll be using separate air-game and ground-game mechanics.
On second thought, it may not have a ground game at all...
Hmmm...
The backgrounds are definitely 3D.
Could Mamizou be the game's equivalent of Shang Tsung...? And would Mamizou morphs be disablable in the options menu?
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Could Mamizou be the game's equivalent of Shang Tsung...? And would Mamizou morphs be disablable in the options menu?
Couldn't that also to be said about Nue though? :V
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For some reason I'd see Mamizou's transform ability to be more similar to Akari's (Last Blade series, NGBC). Only able to transform to her current opponent, and the change is lost on getting hit. Probably some other things too but I don't remember too well.
Shang Tsung-style Nue, though, would be hilarious. :V
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I think it would be cool just to see Mamizou whip out hordes of animal outlines. Maybe some we haven't seen yet either, like bear melee or fish projectiles.
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I think it would be cool just to see Mamizou whip out hordes of animal outlines. Maybe some we haven't seen yet either, like bear melee or fish projectiles.
I demand fish and bees, or I'll be unhappy.
Ok not really, I'd be overjoyed anyway. I think Touhou is the only game series I can't think of a character and say ''Gah, I wish she won't be in the game, I hate her''.
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Here's some food for thought.I just noticed a few details between the special bar,bottom screen, and the approval bar,upper screen.Reimu's and Marisa's special bars are different in capacity lenght ,since the latter one is shorter.There are 3 levels for the special bar,which are grey(empty?),red and blue not just 2.In the 3rd picture Reimu sustains "high"(768) damage but receives +86% approval,look at the blue portion bar,and Marisa loses 45% of it,same with the red portion;the two of them are in an inverse proportion to each other.Last one is another detail about the approval bar which ,even with huge increase/decrease on the gauge,still keeps a speck of safety for undecided gray.Interesting..... :wat:
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A character with a style can be effective, like Reisen's illusory moves or Suwako's unpredictable behavior. A character with a ridiculously emphasized playstyle isn't too great. Utsuho in UNL is great to do damage with few hits... and that's it. She loses on ever other aspects of fighting.
it seems to me that you prefer characters that give you enough offensive and/or defensive options (some could call them "balanced" types), however it wouldn't be accurate to call more specialized types "not good". They may have more matchup imbalances (in their favor or against them) and may be more difficult to use (for some/many people), but they may just fit well with other people's playing styles. Some people even have varied enough playstyles and can use said balanced or specialized character types when they feel like playing with their gameplay style. Finally, regarding effectiveness of characters, allowing diverse playstyles (like I've said in the previous post) or giving a character a wide variety of resources/tools doesn't ensure that the character is effective enough to be "the best". One character with less options, but equally or more useful ones, has greater chances.
Regarding Okuu in Soku (remember I don't play this game), or other specialized characters (can think of Patchy in IaMP, for example), as a general rule: use their strenghts, work around their deficiencies. (like you would with "balanced" character-types: choose a character whose resources/tools you can use better)
@Mamizou: she could (alternativel) be like Twelve and X-Copy their opponents too :p
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Regarding Okuu in Soku (remember I don't play this game), or other specialized characters (can think of Patchy in IaMP, for example), as a general rule: use their strenghts, work around their deficiencies. (like you would with "balanced" character-types: choose a character whose resources/tools you can use better)
Patchouli is an excellent example of a character who isn't balanced, but is extremely powerful when used right; She's one of my favorites. With Patchouli, you can actually work around the weaknesses she has. She's a proof that a character can have a specialized way of fighting without being weak.
Utsuho is the perfect example of a character who isn't balanced, and is ridiculously flawed on many levels to make up for her unique advantage; Strength. It's hard to explain if you don't play the game, but let's just say she's not just ''specialized'' anymore, she's ridiculously pushed toward the ''HIT HIM, HIT HIM FOR BIG DAMAGE :I'' style so that it's harder to play as her. I've seen people use her well, but it's still quite difficult. Unlike Alice, it's not hard because you have to *know* how to use her, she's hard to use because she's soooooo punishable and slow. She hits like a damn truck, but any good player that is somewhat skilled with dodging will laugh at her.
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I wonder who'd be in it...
I'm guessing 20 spots, but minus at least two for the boss and her Dragon.
The Locks: Reimu, Marisa, Sanae
The Maybes: Kasen, Seiga, Komachi (if either Kasen or Seiga are there, so too will be Komachi), Youmu, Alice, Sakuya, Aya, Futo, Cirno, Kogasa
The Doubtfuls: Byakuren (she's a pacifist by nature)
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Futo and Kogasa, but no Miko? Seems suspect to me.
I can't think of a number but, for who would particularly stand out to me as choices to make interesting fighters or obvious choices-
Returning cast- Reimu, Marisa, Cirno, Sakuya, Alice, Youmu, Yukari (w/ Shikigami summons?), Suika, Reisen, Aya, Komachi, Sanae, Utsuho
New characters- Nitori, Yuugi, Koishi, Ichirin and Unzan, Byakuren, Seiga and Yoshika, Miko w/Futo and Tojiko summons, Mamizou, Kasen, RANDOM YAMAME
I really can't help but think what a neat character Ichirin could be, same with Nitori and her go-go gadget copter/whatever. I'm happy with whatever cast we get though.
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Yuyuko has great setups and normals, as mentioned (mostly because they last so long and are disjointed, which make them mostly safe). Her guardcrush game is also really good, and if you're fast enough default 623 can be used on reaction to punish chicken blocking and border escapes made on the ground, which is really powerful, because 623 fan spin can be canceled from pretty much anything. Corner carry is also ridiculous and she generally can always blue border with any combo. Her bread and butter blockstring also works anywhere on the screen (5A/2A 3A/6A 6C 421C hj9 j2A, repeat). The fact that her C-series bullets don't interact with other bullets make some characters really sweat, as they're generally not characters that have to deal with losing bullet trades (utsuho and yukari for basic examples). All of her matchups are positive except vs Sakuya and Iku (who don't have ANY bad matchups), and she has a hilarious 70/30 win odds versus Cirno. (Mostly because Cirno can't break even Yuyuko's B butterflies.)
It's also worth mentioning that EVERYONE is a keep-away/zoner to some extent in Hisoutensoku because of how it's designed, save for maybe Youmu and Meiling. (even then Meiling 6c and certain Myon specials are really good at spacing)
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I wonder who'd be in it...
I'm guessing 20 spots, but minus at least two for the boss and her Dragon.
The Locks: Reimu, Marisa, Sanae
The Maybes: Kasen, Seiga, Komachi (if either Kasen or Seiga are there, so too will be Komachi), Youmu, Alice, Sakuya, Aya, Futo, Cirno, Kogasa
The Doubtfuls: Byakuren (she's a pacifist by nature)
This was mentioned earlier, but we should probably expect a much smaller cast since they're redoing the sprites. IaMP was released with 10 characters, so that is likely to be the range we should be expecting.
Since the theme is a continuation of the religious conflict from SoPM, I'd say it's basically mandatory for Kanako, Miko, and Byakuren to show up. If not, definitely one of their agents (which I guess makes Kanako the least likely because of Sanae). Also, I don't think Byakuren is likely refuse because of her pacifism. Based on the popularity contest game mechanic, it's likely that the story will turn it into a spectacle or a festival of sorts. Byakuren is against killing, but she has nothing against danmaku battles in general.
Anyway, given that Reimu, Marisa and Sanae are also mandatory, that takes up 5-6 slots right there. Subtract one for the final boss, and that leaves 3-4 free slots for recurring characters. Then I suppose we have to ask the big question: what exactly does ZUN intend to do with this game? If he just wants to make a sequel to the previous fighting games, he'd probably want to include old favorites like Sakuya and Youmu. On the other hand, if he plans on using this to put focus on the newer characters and the newer stories, which honestly seems more likely to me, he'd be more likely to add characters from UFO and TD. If that's the plan, Seiga seems pretty likely to me because despite being technically on the Taoist side of things, she also has motivations that are completely separate from Miko (Futo and Tojiko are both toadies, and even get summoned by Miko's spellcard in TD). It's harder to come up with another representative from UFO, but Shou and Murasa seemed sort of like co-subleaders in UFO. Ichirin might make a fun character to play though. Or just Kogasa, because.
The last slot will be someone random from something else, like Kasen or Aya.
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well, randomly, I hope they have normal grabs this time around.
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Patchouli is an excellent example of a character who isn't balanced, but is extremely powerful when used right; She's one of my favorites. With Patchouli, you can actually work around the weaknesses she has. She's a proof that a character can have a specialized way of fighting without being weak.
Utsuho is the perfect example of a character who isn't balanced, and is ridiculously flawed on many levels to make up for her unique advantage; Strength. It's hard to explain if you don't play the game, but let's just say she's not just ''specialized'' anymore, she's ridiculously pushed toward the ''HIT HIM, HIT HIM FOR BIG DAMAGE :I'' style so that it's harder to play as her. I've seen people use her well, but it's still quite difficult. Unlike Alice, it's not hard because you have to *know* how to use her, she's hard to use because she's soooooo punishable and slow. She hits like a damn truck, but any good player that is somewhat skilled with dodging will laugh at her.
Uhhh, the same could've been said about Okuu: work around the weaknesses. Patchy has poor melee options in IaMP, but good neutral game, good spirit meter, good projectiles, Okuu has even more terrible startup on her normals than average, but good range (which you seem to have overlooked, in favor of the more obvious damage) and somewhat useful bullets (c bullets for countering if you have enough time, other people who're more familiar with her also like her atom-like slow bullet and her Subterranean Sun sc). Okuu (or heavy-hitters in general) might just not fit with your playstyle, but that's not something to be ashamed of. I for example suck at rushdown, okizeme and keepaway-centered characters/mechanics (though that doesn't keep me from trying to learn them and enjoying their movesets).
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http://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Diagram
Most of my complaints on balance are based on this tier list and various tournament footage in nico and youtube. Tasofro is not really very good at balancing games, and it really makes me worried when one of their games has an 80/20 matchup in it, and this isn't even between the statistically best and worst characters; no, a B-tier character versus an F-tier one is where this amazing matchup happens. Seriously? Also take note of Sakuya's average data on the right of the chart: her stat is (+21.0) is far and above the closest one, Yuyuko's. (+14.5) The same goes for Suwako and Okuu on the otherside, who feature -23.0 and -13.5, respectively. I'm really worried about this game balance wise, track record considered. :ohdear:
(The data's old, but Soku has been dead for a while now tourney wise.)
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I don't see why an 8/2 matchup would mean unbalanced. Most matchups are around 4/6 to 6/4 which is pretty good. The 8/2 match up is the worse kind, this matchup probably means the style of the character is very advantageous vs the style of the opponent.
This is generally true in most versus games where there are characters that do have such a big edge over another character. Though, that match up listed is Suwako, and she is kinda hard to use.
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This is one of those cases where you really need to get some tier lists from some other fighting games in order to get a good context, I think. 8/2 sounds kinda bad up front, but I'm pretty sure lots of fighting games have at least one match up that bad. I could be wrong.
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Fighting games in general should be limited to three or four tiers. bad>decent>good>best. Sf4 is like that, bb is like that, melty is like that, and lots of others are. The most drastic matchup you'd see in any of those would be a 70/30 matchup like Kanji vs Liz in P4u or Nu vs Tager. In the five years I have been seriously playing fightingames, I have never seen such a polarising matchup And that's just looking at this tier list; other matchups that we almost as bad are Youmu Alice and Iku Okuu. Its not that bad matchups are uncommon, its that soku has way too taking many.
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Now, in the fighting games you play, how many of those characters have different skill sets? Bad matchups happen when you have lots of different skill sets, you can't just look the number of characters. For example, let's use Street Fighter 4. Ryu, Ken, Gouken, and Akuma have a similar playing styles. Then you compare that will the amount of characters are in the game. It is the variance of the characters that can cause a bad matchup. How many of those characters have variance? You can use the game you provided and look at all the characters.
Now, I am unsure what you mean by limited to 4 tiers. Tiers are just something you can arbitrarily set, then make a comparison. I also have a comment about Suwako, she is hard to use, so I am unsure how accurate that diagram is.
Until you actually play this game extensively and is able to make your own judgement. I don't see how you can make any comments of a tier list that is subjective and could change.
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If you had kept that to Ryu and Ken, I maybe would have given you that. But as soon as you added Gouken and Akuma, you just lost credibility. Akuma has teleports, air fire balls, and demon flip. Gouken has antiair fireballs, no easy reversal without meter, AMONGST OTHER THINGS. SF4, regardless of any problems I have with it, has a very varied and interesting cast if you have any familiarity with actual fighting game mechanics. Just look at El Fuerte, Dudley, and Viper for a quick example of differences.
Fighting games should have three to four tiers because any more implies that the worst person in the cast has absolutely no chance versus the top; rather than the S to F tier Soku has, it's more of a S to B tier. There's no one bad, it's just that a few are better.
Suwako is legitimately bad. Her ground dashes are predictable and easy to punish, her control scheme is finnicky for little reward beyond damage output, and an assortment of other problems make her just plain bad. You could have made the 'hard to use' argument a few months ago, but Alice and Suwako have been out of the 'can't be tiered, not enough known about' list for a long time now.
You don't need to play a game extensively to be able to comment on it extensively, or else commentators would be the best players of the games. I can very easily say Sakuya has no weaknesses except maybe her damage, Alice is absolutely useless if you kill her dolls and get in, and Okuu has the slowest, laggiest, and easiest to punish normals I've ever seen. I'm not very good at playing fighting games admittedly, but like I've mentioned before I commentate just fine. And my comments on Soku are that it's really stupid unbalanced, and Tasofro has a bad track record with game balance in general.
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On a random note, that "God tier" joke (assuming it was a joke) about Suwako in that diagram is hilarious on multiple levels.
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On a random note, that "God tier" joke (assuming it was a joke) about Suwako in that diagram is hilarious on multiple levels.
That jokes gets cracked all the time (thor and ammy from MvC3 come to mind). It's just funnier (but sadder) in this case.
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But as soon as you added Gouken and Akuma, you just lost credibility. Akuma has teleports, air fire balls, and demon flip. Gouken has antiair fireballs, no easy reversal without meter
I don't remember ever saying they play the same. I said similar.
Now, look at the examples you gave me. That is 4 examples of different playing styles. What I am looking for is more variance, because Touhou has quite a bit of variance and therefore more chances to have mismatch. What I am saying is the more variance you see, the greater the odds are you will see more of a difference in the tier list.
I don't remember Dudley in Street Fighter 4. I also don't quite remember using Viper even though I recognize her name. Maybe there is a naming difference, because I know I have used every single character in that game. I believe you need to use every character to unlock Gouken. Zangeif was also a lot stronger or something, because he much better to use than compared to back in the Steet Fighter 2 days, where he wasn't all that amazing.
Fighting games should have three to four tiers because any more implies that the worst person in the cast has absolutely no chance versus the top; rather than the S to F tier Soku has, it's more of a S to B tier. There's no one bad, it's just that a few are better.
It does not imply anything. An S tier does not mean it will beat a F tier character, not in Soku, so I am quite confused where you got this conclusion. A tier list is a subjective list between players.
You don't need to play a game extensively to be able to comment on it extensively, or else commentators would be the best players of the games. I can very easily say Sakuya has no weaknesses except maybe her damage, Alice is absolutely useless if you kill her dolls and get in, and Okuu has the slowest, laggiest, and easiest to punish normals I've ever seen. I'm not very good at playing fighting games admittedly, but like I've mentioned before I commentate just fine. And my comments on Soku are that it's really stupid unbalanced, and Tasofro has a bad track record with game balance in general.
And I am saying you are wrong. Before making comments like it is unbalanced, I hoped you would play the game more. Sakuya is S tier yes, but she's not so much stronger than the supposedly worst character, Suwako, that Sakuya will have an overwhelming advantage. The real advantage between characters is really their playing style.
Suwako is legitimately bad. Her ground dashes are predictable and easy to punish, her control scheme is finnicky for little reward beyond damage output, and an assortment of other problems make her just plain bad. You could have made the 'hard to use' argument a few months ago, but Alice and Suwako have been out of the 'can't be tiered, not enough known about' list for a long time now.
It is not the matter of them being out. It is the matter of who are using them. If it is as you said, they are only mid tier even if you learn how to use them. There would be little reward to try to learn them. Why then, would players try to learn them? This is why I talked about hard to use, because Suwako is hard to use and does not offer that great of a reward even if you learn how to use it. And again, may I repeat what I said, tier list are subjective. You are basing something subjective to make another subjective argument.
Did you notice that the tier listed is as of July 10? It would imply that the tier list is fluid. If characters were really that poorly balanced, there would hardly be fluidity.
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Just watch, the boss of the game will have the ability to manipulate power levels and tier lists. THEN where will you all be?
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I JUST WANT TO HIT BUTTONS AND WATCH SHINY THINGS HAPPEN :V
I DON'T WANT NO STINKIN' TIERS :getdown:
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Smalled for convenience. Don't read if you don't care about any of the rambling I've been filling this thread with (and again sorry about that), but Starxsword obviously has beef with my opinion.
Firstly star, SF4 has plenty of variance. There are plenty of variance between characters in SF4, and if I need to spell it out for you then fine. Gouken, Akuma, and Ryu/Ken do not play remotely similar either. If you haven't heard of Viper or Dudley, then you probably haven't played it since SF4, which was several major updates ago. If you're not even familiar with how SSF4:AE is right now, then don't dispute me on it when the game you're talking about is three years old.
Secondly, no, tier lists are not entirely subjective between people to people. You can argue their existence, but there are very mechanical ways of spelling out how bad someone is; bad recovery, bad startup, bad active frames, bad range, bad anything. The subjectiveness of tiers at high levels of play are limited to swapping around exact placements, not general placements. Suwako has bad flight, bad normals, a ghetto 'stance' system that's easy to punish, and a plethora of other problems. Not to mention that the tier list I mentioned is an agreed one between hundreds, if not at least one or two thousand high level Soku players.
Yes I have played Soku a lot, yes I say that Sakuya would rape the living shit out of Suwako, yes I've watched a lot of Soku (and like I said you don't have to play a lot of a game to understand it, just watching and learning how to commentate is enough) and you just contradicted yourself by calling me wrong. I thought they were subjective between person to person? You're free to disagree. Some of the matchups in Soku are :absolutely stupid:, assuming skill level is around the same, and even when the person playing the worse character is probably massively better in general. Like I said, people in the top ten of their respective characters within Japanese rankings have lost to unranked Yuyukos, Remilias, and Sakuyas, just because those characters are just so overwhelmingly better. And you want to know why they're better? Because Soku is a game that desperately wants all of its characters to remain in neutral for the entire game; just look at the mechanics. Wrongblocks don't result in immediate guardbreak, border escapes, system cards with invulnerability, supers/ex skills are just one button press (and thus reversals are only one buttons press), grazing, etc. Regardless of whether or not it was intentional, that's how it is; and the three best characters in Soku are the ones who have nigh-infinite, nearly unescapable blockstrings that :will: result in guardbreaks, because they spit in the face of the game's general design. Of course zoning and neutral don't mean a goddamn thing in Soku because of the same mechanics that it's trying to use to stay in neutral and zoning, but hey. They tried.
Soku is badly balanced, SWR was badly balanced, and Tasofro has a bad history with game balance in general. My concern is legitimate about the competitive balance of the next game; if you want to disagree with me then fine, but it doesn't change the fact I'm worried about it, nor does it change the fact you can't really argue my concern unless you're a competitive player yourself for Soku. I'm really not sure why you're trying to alleviate my concerns.
If you're still hungup on my preferred number of tiers, then look at it from a statistics point of view: I don't want a bunch of fucking outliers messing up my stat distribution, thanks.
I'll say it again. My concerns are probably not going to be shared by a whole lot of other people; most of us are not competitive fighting game players or commentators. I honestly don't give a flying fuck if you care or not, or agree with my concerns, but hey. If you've spent the effort to multi quote my post then you obviously care about what I think.
If you want a second opinion, just watch these. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2D39AC7C6E8AD8F7 And read the video descriptions. or go to #hisouten, which is all of the american hisoutensoku community, and try and tell them they're playing a balanced game. I'll wait. If it makes you feel better Alice used to be considered the worst character in the game.
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Amra, you need to really calm down because you honestly seem to be offended with anyone questioning your thoughts on tier lists
Tier lists are subjective in the end because of the experience people has with each character. Suwako is considered low tier because she's really hard to use and hasn't been explored to its full potential, while Sakuya is pretty easy to use (in my own experience) so a lot of people tend to stick with her over others.
You can ask the American community whatever they want, but that doesn't represent the Japanese community and how they play the game itself. Let's take Thor fro MvC3 as an example. Here they think he's a pretty damn low tier character with just high health. But if you see the Japanese community a lot of them USE Thor as think of him as a pretty good character. The Japanese mentality of fighting games are pretty different from the American view. And remember when Vergil was thought to be only okay at first when the game first came out? Japan ALREADY knew Vergil was top tier at the start, and it took the West a few months before they realized this (when they went with Wesker first, then Zero, then Spencer, and finally Vergil).
Sure I can definitely agree with Sakuya being top tier for sure. She's really simple to use, but this does NOT take away from the fact that Suwako is terrible and an unplayable character against her. AGEOJOE was a great example of use low tier characters (and Frank West) and winning AN ENTIRE MAJOR TOURNAMENT WITH THEM because they all thought they were low tier.
Even Hsien-ko is still pretty good. She has one of the best assists in the game with her super armor hyper. Seriously, it's so broken :V And Phoenix Wright is good too, look at Lythero and his videos with him. He just takes a lot of time to learn, but he can kill almost every character with one combo in turnabout mode.
Anyways ENOUGH about tier lists okay? This kind of stuff is what brings players apart and discourages players to ever TOUCH other potential characters and be good with them, and encourages "over-saturation" (aka Wesker over-saturation when in the end everyone knew how to counter him). Just let people be, tier lists are just subjective that a lot of people feel are good because of their own personal experience. You just need to put them to their full potential and I would believe Suwako hasn't been explored too much yet because of this. I believe to ignore tier lists entirely and just play my characters (which is why I play Reimu or Suika main :V)
EDIT: Oh yeah, remember when pre-2012 Yun (who was ridiculously "top tier") won EVO 2011? Neither (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AKVJEOSGRM) did I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCi37ra4Cr0)
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tires don exits
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If I sound offended, then sorry about that (because I am actually a little offended that no one's actually listening to me beyond the 'wah tiers'), but what I'm trying to point out here is that the Hisoutensoku tiers are only a part of the problem, and considering how bad the matchups are in Soku that's saying a lot.. Marvel's fine, Thor's fine, all that's fine, but Soku isn't. Soku is where a matchup between a B-tier character and a F-tier character is statistically worse than an S and an F (which is what I'm trying to emphasize here, not the Sakuya/Suwako matchup because that's nothing special, Sakuya has lots of 70/30 matchups). Soku is a game that's schizophrenically swapping between wanting to stay in neutral/zoning forever and yet at the same time completely ignoring neutral and zoning because of the same mechanics it's trying to use to promote it. Soku is a game where you can get completely screwed over by chance regardless of what character you're playing and there's nothing you can do about it beyond picking a character that can abuse weather.
I'm a firm believer in tier lists, because the only way you couldn't have tiers is if you weren't playing a fighting game (even when Street Fighter only had Ryu the left Ryu was statistically better because people were just used to those inputs), but that's not the only problem here. What I'm trying to say is that, not just character/tier wise, not just system wise, and not just concept wise, but ON A WHOLE, Soku is badly put together, and that history of it being bad is :not: giving me high hopes for this game. There were a bunch of neat ideas they added to it that all could've been great, but in the end they were all subpar and ended up bogging down each other.
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Serious question: Are you more of an IaMP player?
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I never got into IaMP, sadly, and I'm pretty aware that was a neat game. If they went back to simple stuff like that for Hopeless, I think they could make a great game that could honestly bring in people to Touhou because it's a great game on its own merits, much like how Melty Blood has benefited Tsukihime.
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Honestly, it's pretty rare for characters to not have been explored to their full potential (or close enough, as far as is possible for us imperfect humans to achieve) for a game as old as 'soku. There are quite a few dedicated Suwako players out there who have had years to hone their art and gameplay with her. At this point, most tricks and strategies that exist have likely been discovered by now and it'd probably require inhuman levels of skill, reflex, and precision for the current top Suwako players to get any better with her than they are, already, yet they apparently still lose to Youmu, Sakuya, and other players that are generally considered not-very-good Youmu, Sakuya, and whatever players.
Me personally, I always thought the Touhou fighting games were meant to be more for the fun boss-rush 1P modes with the 2P competitive scene as kinda an afterthought. There aren't many other fighting games that focus on story as much as the Touhou fighting games, and there are absolutely NO other fighting games that focus on making unique one player match ups as the Touhou fighting games (where story-mode computer characters bust out all sorts of zany spell cards that you need to come up with the right strategies to counter). Touhou has always been a very story and spell-card focused series, so I figured the fighting series was more of the same (hence the focus on those instead of competitiveness).
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I'm a firm believer in tier lists, because the only way you couldn't have tiers is if you weren't playing a fighting game (even when Street Fighter only had Ryu the left Ryu was statistically better because people were just used to those inputs), but that's not the only problem here. What I'm trying to say is that, not just character/tier wise, not just system wise, and not just concept wise, but ON A WHOLE, Soku is badly put together, and that history of it being bad is :not: giving me high hopes for this game.
What you've been saying, repeatedly, is that you think tier lists are important ... just because you say so, pretty much.
Gpop very astutely points out that match-ups differ depending on who's actually controlling the players, and that's a real-world, relatable opinion. I'd add that his point that tier lists more or less mean whole sections of the cast are going to be ignored for all the wrong reasons is a very good point. He's even provided video evidence to this effect.
So we've got Point/Counterpoint. The dead horse is beaten. I'm sure everyone in this thread is now very much aware that Amra thinks tiers are important. Can we move on now?
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What you've been saying, repeatedly, is that you think tier lists are important ... just because you say so, pretty much.
I don't think it's right to just dismiss what he's been saying like that. He has, in fact, given examples of characters having unfair advantages over each other. It's really an inevitable fact that some characters will be better than others. Not just in fighting games, but in almost anything competitive, from racing games to trading cards. Personally I'd say that the relevance of tiers is almost unarguable.
In any event, what I'm trying to say is that balance is a real issue in these games, and the discussion so far about it has been pretty interesting, in my opinion. More so than speculating about who will be included, etc.
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one important thing to know: Tiers don't matter for non-advanced players, because the tiers are made with advanced (high level) players in mind, who can make better use of the characters' resources than average players. Thus, tiers are objectively inaccurate for said average players, and so, there's no reason for said average players to worry about tiers. But still, for the more advanced players, high imbalance can destroy the game's depth (and thus, the fun) and replay value, or take out a large part of it.
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I don't think it's right to just dismiss what he's been saying like that. He has, in fact, given examples of characters having unfair advantages over each other.
My point wasn't regarding whether or not they exist, but whether or not they're important.
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Yeah, I mean, to Hell with competitive rankings, I just want to see a UFO cast member in one of the brawlers for once this time.
I will never understand you competitive guys. I think there's only so far one can tweak the balance for a fighting game and beyond that part it comes across as a bit obsessive.
If I wanted competitive balance I'd join a judo club, or play chess. :V
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So, uh, a bit out of the tier subject thing...
I really hope the new game won't have different mechanics (As in, Attack, Special1, Special2, Inputs, blablabla) because I thought Hisoutensoku was awesome for that; I didn't need to memorize a bazillion combinations of input to actually do good combos and different attacks. I suck at fighting games, yet love them, so I end up finding one attack and spamming it. (Which I am very ashamed of)
IaMP had great mechanics too, so I'm expecting great things~
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I agree with Alliterator. I don't even care about tiers neither... best thing for me to do is playing the games just for fun, while taking it easy and using my dearest characters.
I'm never good on fighting games for that matter... except if you count the -smash series. I just like mashin' buttons and etc, hoping to see awesome shiny stuff happening on the screen :V
Tourneyfags for me are too annoying, they ruin all of the purpose of the fun. It's also just so nerdy... hence why I stay far from competitive battling. VEEEERY far from it.
Now, MOVING ON (like Tengukami said)
I'm really impressed with the graphics of the game so far... and I really enjoyed the visual of the Hakurei Shrine stage. It's really beautiful and colorful... so... I can't wait to see the beauty of the other stages as well, instead of that pixelated stuff we got from the previous fighters.
Some stages I'd like to see are:
Garden of Sun: I think it'd be really cool to see those lovely, dear sunflowers all over the place. With dragonflies floating over them and all... it'd be an awesome scene to watch.
Muenzuka: Because I love those crimson spider-lilies. The colors are really vibrant and powerful.
Bamboo Forest of Lost: I also really like bamboo forests, they bring a really oriental/japanese atmosphere.
Hakugyokurou: Cherry blossom trees. Nuff said.
Pand?monium: As much as I'm aware that the chances of this place being in the game are close to zero, I'd really like to see the crystal fortress at full HI-RES glory. I was imagining something like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/tb1sJ.jpg)
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I know a lot of people that would take offense to the term 'tourneyfag'. :\
stage wise I have a feeling it's going to be three stages or something per major faction in the game, then random stages like Garden of the Sun.
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Isn't it traditional to just have one stage per character? Also associated with their theme music.
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Hmm...even with a plot like this, I feel it won't be easy to guess most of the roster. Who's to say we won't get unexpected characters siding with a faction?
Here's a good example. Say Suika is in and sides with Reimu. Perhaps Yuugi might join as well to support Suika.
Another example. Remilia might want in on the "fun" as well (possibly out of boredom) and have Sakuya, Meiling and Patchouli fight on her behalf.
It could either be a straight, predictable story or a tale with a winding path that could lead anywhere.
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Scarlet Weather Rhapsody pretty much proved that no matter what it looks like at first, you'll just end up getting some random albeit popular characters thrown at you.
*Looks at Reisen and Aya*
Oh and that even though you may think major characters will appear, they probably won't, because they'll be using their underlings. Y'know, I wouldn't be surprised at this point if the game doesn't even include Miko or Byakuren. I'll be super pissed, but not surprised.
Hmm...even with a plot like this, I feel it won't be easy to guess most of the roster. Who's to say we won't get unexpected characters siding with a faction?
God knows 99 % of Gensokyo's population doesn't give a damn about the incidents and only end up participating because they're bored, making most rosters completely unpredictable. So I completely agree with you.
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Byakuren, Miko, and Sanae are very likely to appear. I have high confidence in them appearing.
Everyone else though, it is hard to tell. It could be anyone really, but my guess is that Youmu seems likely to appear. There would almost definitely be a new character.
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Scarlet Weather Rhapsody pretty much proved that no matter what it looks like at first, you'll just end up getting some random albeit popular characters thrown at you.
*Looks at Reisen and Aya*
Reisen is IN's Stage 5 boss, aka the servant character of the Eientei faction, aka protagonist equivalent. It makes perfect sense for her to appear as the IN/Eientei representative for this reason alone.
In plot terms, Reisen connects SWR with the Vignettes of Ephemeral Moon storyline, which are two stories with a lot of parallels, and also taking place very near to each other.
Aya is a scout of the youkai mountain. People are going up and down the youkai mountain without tengu permission. Surely at least one tengu would try to stop them, if only to put up a token resistance?
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In plot terms, Reisen connects SWR with the Vignettes of Ephemeral Moon storyline, which are two stories with a lot of parallels, and also taking place very near to each other.
Aya is a scout of the youkai mountain. People are going up and down the youkai mountain without tengu permission. Surely at least one tengu would try to stop them, if only to put up a token resistance?
Yeah, Aya was related to the story directly, hell, she's one of the only character that didn't just beat up people because it's totally how you find a criminal. But the only reason she appeared was because people climbed Youkai Mountain. Aside from that, she has no reason to be there. She's comparable to a boulder, an obstacle.
But for Reisen? It's still pretty far-fetched. Even if it was supposed to make parallels, it barely did any. Reisen's presence in the story was pretty much her being the only sane one of the group and getting beaten up by (and beating up too) a bunch of people who just randomly fought each other because, hey, you! I bet you're DAH CRIMINAL!
I mean, it's kind of obvious SWR pokes at PoV a lot, taking Reisen (first time playable), Aya (first appearance) and Komachi (first apearance) in the game, even though it's meant to be ''Touhou 10.5'', it doesn't present any MoF character at all, all the way until UNL where Sanae appears, and then, CIRNO. Let's be honest, Cirno in that game was pure fanservice. And that's my point; Predicting the roster is pretty much for fun rather than actually aiming to be right because god knows what random plot twist will show up, forcing a character to appear?
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just keeep hyping me up for random yamame people. keep at it.
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I don't want to see faith vs faith
I want to see SPIDER VERSUS INSECT
YAMAME VS WRIGGLE
MAKE IT HAPPEN ZUN
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Tier Lists don't matter for advanced players either. Players at that level can keep in mind what their personal hard matchups are already, being you know, human beings capable of memory capacity and being in posesion of the ability to learn from mistakes and pick up patterns ("Oh, I seem to always lose against Hazama when I'm Tager, and nothing I've explored seems to make the match any easier; I should look out for Hazamas and find some new strategy or character to deal with this problem"). You'll never see a GF winner saying anything like "Yeah, I thought for sure I was going to lose, but then I remembered that he was using a low tier character! Thanks to that wonderful tier list, I was able to take the set!"
Other topics
I really would like to see some Suika Kasen Yuugi oni party time in this game. Hell, perhaps the ever-elusive fourth diva will make an appearance stirring up this approval business?
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Oh and that even though you may think major characters will appear, they probably won't, because they'll be using their underlings. Y'know, I wouldn't be surprised at this point if the game doesn't even include Miko or Byakuren. I'll be super pissed, but not surprised.
THIS! Exactly my thoughts... there's a huge chance we'll only be getting Sanae, Futo and Murasa, maybe. But seriously... If that really happens then I swear I'll throw a can of beer at zun's head because I've had enough of his trollage already. He likes to keep hinting us about the appearance of a character due to the circumstances and atmosphere of the game in question, but then, in the end, said character doesn't appear at all (take what happened with the fanbase's expectations about Mima's return on TD for example).
I'm gonna get really pissed off as well because that's by far Byakuren, Miko, and Kanako's greatest chances of getting playable, and if they miss this opportunity now, then I'm pretty sure it won't ever happen in the future, at all.
Also I DON'T CARE IF THEY'RE RELEVANT TO THE PLOT OR NOT, I WANT MY MIMA, SHINKI, YUUKA AND YUMEMI ON THE GAME BECAUSE THEY'RE AWESOME PC-98 FINAL BOSSES! :getdown:
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SWR started its life as Touhou 9.8, and only became Touhou 10.5 later. It was never intended to have anything to do with Moriya Shrine, and for all we know, ZUN might have already written most of the story before he made MoF.
>Cirno
"ZUN never cares about fan opinions that much", or more accurately "ZUN would never allow his creative decisions to be swayed by the fandom", should be a mantra we hear more often. ZUN likes Cirno; he and Tasofro thought she presented interesting game design opportunities. These are enough reasons.
Some characters are popular despite the author's preference, and some are popular because of it. I think Cirno is more of the latter category.
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But seriously... If that really happens then I swear I'll throw a can of beer at zun's head because I've had enough of his trollage already. He likes to keep hinting us about the appearance of a character due to the circumstances and atmosphere of the game in question, but then, in the end, said character doesn't appear at all (take what happened with the fanbase's expectations about Mima's return on TD for example).
Okay, I have to address this, because it gets on my nerves.
Why do people state that ZUN is "trolling" because he doesn't follow through to their expectations? Whether or not the atmosphere gives a hint is irrelevant. It's unfair when you hype yourself up for nothing only to get angry with ZUN when you don't get what you want. Like your example with Mima. That was a 50/50. When it was mentioned that "a certain character was returning", it could have meant a new character who used to be active or a character we know who has been out of commission for a while. Such a phrase can be interpreted in diverse ways.
When fans speculate about something or have their own ten desires about what they want, but find that it's something else, it's not ZUN's fault; it's everyone getting their hopes up to the point where things go out of control. So can we please stop with the "ZUN IS TROLLING LOL" comments already? The meaning of the "word" has lost its flavor.
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Okay, I have to address this, because it gets on my nerves.
Why do people state that ZUN is "trolling" because he doesn't follow through to their expectations? Whether or not the atmosphere gives a hint is irrelevant. It's unfair when you hype yourself up for nothing only to get angry with ZUN when you don't get what you want. Like your example with Mima. That was a 50/50. When it was mentioned that "a certain character was returning", it could have meant a new character who used to be active or a character we know who has been out of commission for a while. Such a phrase can be interpreted in diverse ways.
When fans speculate about something or have their own ten desires about what they want, but find that it's something else, it's not ZUN's fault; it's everyone getting their hopes up to the point where things go out of control. So can we please stop with the "ZUN IS TROLLING LOL" comments already? The meaning of the "word" has lost its flavor.
We get annoyed because our instinctive thought is "Who else could it be?"
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For the record, I never once considered that ZUN would actually put Mima in TD. That always felt like fans reaching for straws. It's basically been a running joke every time a new game comes out. Although Forbidden Scrollery opens up the door in an interesting fashion...
Anyway, while the basic standard has always been to favor servants over bosses (ie: Youmu, Sakuya and Sanae are more likely to be playable than Yuyuko, Remilia and Kanako), it's important to realize the other criteria that they all fit into. Humans. Or half-humans. That's... basically it. Humans are the main characters of this series about youkai. You might say it's racist or something, but it's written into the plot. Youkai cause incidents, and humans resolve them (sometimes with youkai assistance).
So what does this mean for HM? Well, mostly it applies to Miko and Byakuren. Bykauren has no human servants, nor is she human herself. Her entire faction consists of youkai. Therefore, no one really has any priority over her to act as her agent. I guess you could also say she's a former human, but personally I think that's not something ZUN would ever emphasize. Likewise, the Miko faction contains no token humans to act as agents. You could say that Futo is closer to humans than any of the youkai, but the same logic applies to Miko. Miko also sort of identifies as human, or as least as a leader of humans. So that's why I think the old pattern of bosses sending "agents" isn't going to continue. Frankly, it hasn't really been the case since MoF. SA broke the pattern of the final boss being the one in charge, and after that the minions has been deemphasized in favor of characterizing the bosses more.
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Bykauren has no human servants, nor is she human herself.
Nyet! Ichirin is...Sorta human. She's not a *born* youkai like the rest of the Myouren crew, and she's not a magician. OTOH she seems one of a kind so I have no idea how much water her exception holds. \o/
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Nyet! Ichirin is...Sorta human. She's not a *born* youkai like the rest of the Myouren crew, and she's not a magician. OTOH she seems one of a kind so I have no idea how much water her exception holds. \o/
Murasa's also a former human, in that she's a ghost of a human. Former humans are still youkai. Yuyuko fills the youkai meter up to full. In a more general sense, humans becoming monsters is a pretty common origin in horror stories. Ichirin's particular circumstances are unique, but "things becoming youkai" is universal. Very few things are born as youkai, actually. Most start as animals or objects.
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>humans, servants and bosses
The multiplayer games have always been the chance to make non-humans playable. That's how Reisen, the first Stage 5 servant who isn't a human, can stand alongside the other protagonists in PoFV. The "human" criterion doesn't apply to fighting games.
There are many in-universe reasons for Reisen not being a single player game protagonists. Her selfish and unsocial nature, Eientei's position as aliens rather than naturalized citizens, Eirin's cautiousness, the cause of Touhou 9-12 not being events that can be seen in all Gensokyo (same reason Sakuya is not present)...
In my mind, however, most of these factors do not affect Myouren Temple and the Taoists. I think while Murasa is too strongly bond to her ghostly obsession, it makes perfect sense for Ichirin, Shou and Futo to play at incident solving. Their thought patterns are much closer to humans than most youkai.
What I'm saying is, I think not only will Ichirin, Shou and Futo show up in HM (that's almost a given), they even stand a better chance at becoming single player game protagonists than all other non-humans.
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Definitely, the fighting games have been places where non-humans can have starring roles, but I was merely trying to show why the servants are no longer more likely than the bosses in this particular case. At best, they're all equal with their bosses. However, given SoPM which characterized the leaders so much I think they're still more likely.
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While there is a tendency to favor the underlings, the fighting games are a bit different in that they have been pretty final boss happy in the past. Kaguya was planned to be included. They just ran out of time or something. Kanako was really just too late for SWR, as cuc pointed out. I think the only final boss who has really been left out is Eiki, and to that you could probably say that she wouldn't be very likely to continue running around after the events of PoFV, just considering her character. I think it's extremely likely that both Byakuren and Miko will be included. Kanako is a little iffy perhaps, mostly because Sanae is so well established already. But really, looking at the previous fighting games, they tend to include the more important characters from each game. Leaving them out of the shooters is one thing, but to have any real presence in HM, I think they will have to be playable. An underling-fest would be too anticlimactic. As people have said, the plot is something that's been being built up for a while. I'd be amazed if Byakuren and Miko aren't in it.
The multiplayer games have always been the chance to make non-humans playable. That's how Reisen, the first Stage 5 servant who isn't a human, can stand alongside the other protagonists in PoFV. The "human" criterion doesn't apply to fighting games.
While it's true that PoFV included lots of non-humans, they actually were mostly low level bosses. Not a single final boss was present, in fact, so you could kinda go either way with it. Certainly HM will have non-humans; there aren't any new humans to choose from. I think the earlier fighting games suggest it will be the higher level bosses though. (And hopefully we'll get another Phantasmagoria soon with the likes of Kogasa, Nazrin, etc.)
Also what Clarste said. Yeah.
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I mean, it's kind of obvious SWR pokes at PoV a lot, taking Reisen (first time playable), Aya (first appearance) and Komachi (first apearance) in the game, even though it's meant to be ''Touhou 10.5'', it doesn't present any MoF character at all, all the way until UNL where Sanae appears, and then, CIRNO. Let's be honest, Cirno in that game was pure fanservice. And that's my point; Predicting the roster is pretty much for fun rather than actually aiming to be right because god knows what random plot twist will show up, forcing a character to appear?
Actually, Aya's first appearance is in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red, but it's true that PoFV is her first playable and game appearance.
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SWR started its life as Touhou 9.8, and only became Touhou 10.5 later. It was never intended to have anything to do with Moriya Shrine, and for all we know, ZUN might have already written most of the story before he made MoF.
That may be true, but it seems like it is too much of a coincidence for Tenshi's ability to match both Kanako and Suwako, being able to control both the atmosphere and the ground.
What I'm saying is, I think not only will Ichirin, Shou and Futo show up in HM (that's almost a given), they even stand a better chance at becoming single player game protagonists than all other non-humans.
I believe, at most, only one of them will show up in Hopeless Masquerade. I agree that they will have better chances of appear in Touhou shooters than non-humans, but that doesn't mean too much, since only in 8 and phantasmagoria games do we get non-human protagonists.
A bit on this. I think it is possible for Byakuren or Miko to be protagonists in single player games too, since they are fairly close to humans.
While it's true that PoFV included lots of non-humans, they actually were mostly low level bosses. Not a single final boss was present, in fact, so you could kinda go either way with it. Certainly HM will have non-humans; there aren't any new humans to choose from. I think the earlier fighting games suggest it will be the higher level bosses though. (And hopefully we'll get another Phantasmagoria soon with the likes of Kogasa, Nazrin, etc.)
I think PoFV just includes a variety of characters. Yuuka is a final boss. Youmu, Sakuya, and Reisen are stage 5 bosses. Aya is a stage 4 boss. Then, there's Cirno and Merlin, among others, who are, I guess what you call early stage bosses.
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Okay, I have to address this, because it gets on my nerves.
Why do people state that ZUN is "trolling" because he doesn't follow through to their expectations? Whether or not the atmosphere gives a hint is irrelevant. It's unfair when you hype yourself up for nothing only to get angry with ZUN when you don't get what you want. Like your example with Mima. That was a 50/50. When it was mentioned that "a certain character was returning", it could have meant a new character who used to be active or a character we know who has been out of commission for a while. Such a phrase can be interpreted in diverse ways.
When fans speculate about something or have their own ten desires about what they want, but find that it's something else, it's not ZUN's fault; it's everyone getting their hopes up to the point where things go out of control. So can we please stop with the "ZUN IS TROLLING LOL" comments already? The meaning of the "word" has lost its flavor.
I really had to read something like this. Thanks a lot for making me feel better!
Sign... Whatever happened to the days when troll simply meant "ugly creature that lives underneath the bridge"...
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I think PoFV just includes a variety of characters. Yuuka is a final boss. Youmu, Sakuya, and Reisen are stage 5 bosses. Aya is a stage 4 boss. Then, there's Cirno and Merlin, among others, who are, I guess what you call early stage bosses.
Other than Merlin, Lunasa and the two bosses, PoFV characters are divided into 3 groups.
Group 1: 5 protagonists, playable from beginning, generally encountered during Chapter 2-6 of story mode.
Group 2: 4 weak youkai, unlocked first, encountered during Chapter 1-4.
Group 3: 3 new characters, unlocked last, encountered in Chapter 6-7.
Udonge belongs in the protagonist group.
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If that really happens then I swear I'll throw a can of beer at zun's head because I've had enough of his trollage already.
Okay, I have to address this, because it gets on my nerves.
Why do people state that ZUN is "trolling" because he doesn't follow through to their expectations?
Because entitlement. "Waaah ZUN didn't use his telepathic powers to magically know what I want and cater to it." It's even more hilarious when you consider how few pay for the games.
Nothing wrong with having hopes, of course, but the belief that you're not only entitled to the game you want, but that ZUN is obliged to cater to you and is intentionally trolling you if you don't get it is delusional.
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Those who believe Mima is going to return this time, out of all the times she could have, are living a Hopeless Masquerade.
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(http://i45.tinypic.com/2d7sv2a.jpg)
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Because entitlement. "Waaah ZUN didn't use his telepathic powers to magically know what I want and cater to it." It's even more hilarious when you consider how few pay for the games.
Nothing wrong with having hopes, of course, but the belief that you're not only entitled to the game you want, but that ZUN is obliged to cater to you and is intentionally trolling you if you don't get it is delusional.
Excuse me sir, but if the hints are just SO INTENSE, then don't blame me for not being able to control my brain to the point of not even thinking about the return of a character. Back during the announcement of TD, I wasn't the only to have great expectations that Mima would return, but the majority of the fans thought the same as well. If it was just me, then it'd be a case apart, and thus, it'd be ignorable. However, the same assumption happened in large scale, so, it's far from being the fanbase's fault.
Those who believe Mima is going to return this time, out of all the times she could have, are living a Hopeless Masquerade.
True, that. I've lost my hopes already and I'm more than aware she won't ever return again. TD was her greatest chance, and she lost it. So, as for now, it's pretty hopeless thinking she may come back in the future.
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Excuse me sir, but if the hints are just SO INTENSE, then don't blame me for not being able to control my brain to the point of not even thinking about the return of a character.
Strawman. I specifically said that having hopes is fine.
And I do blame your brain. It's your brain that believes you are entitled to a character's return to the point where you believe ZUN is deliberately trolling you by not giving you what you want, where your projected expectations are interpreted as "SO INTENSE hints" that the game creator is dropping, and where your expectations not being met is responded to with "I'm so tired of this shit" and talk of getting violent with the guy. Even jokingly, it's pretty WTF.
Back during the announcement of TD, I wasn't the only to have great expectations that Mima would return, but the majority of the fans thought the same as well. If it was just me, then it'd be a case apart, and thus, it'd be ignorable. However, the same assumption happened in large scale, so, it's far from being the fanbase's fault.
How does it prove it's not the fanbase's fault? If anything, "I wasn't the only one" means that there is a certain type of Mima fan who will read "hints" of her return into anything they see, and take it so deeply personally when she doesn't come back that they will actually get angry at the game creator himself and believe he's trolling them.
Hence "entitlement."
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If anything, "I wasn't the only one" means that there is a certain type of Mima fan who will read "hints" of her return into anything they see, and take it so deeply personally when she doesn't come back that they will actually get angry at the game creator himself and believe he's trolling them.
Hence "entitlement."
hint: this "certain type" is all mima fans :smug:
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hint: this "certain type" is all mima fans :smug:
This made me shout-laugh, but I think at least shadowbringer is one of the exceptions to this rule.
I'm sure there are others, but it's hard to hear them over the deafening, shrill squeel of MIMA MIMA MIMA
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Strawman. I specifically said that having hopes is fine.
And I do blame your brain. It's your brain that believes you are entitled to a character's return to the point where you believe ZUN is deliberately trolling you by not giving you what you want, where your projected expectations are interpreted as "SO INTENSE hints" that the game creator is dropping, and where your expectations not being met is responded to with "I'm so tired of this shit" and talk of getting violent with the guy. Even jokingly, it's pretty WTF.
How does it prove it's not the fanbase's fault? If anything, "I wasn't the only one" means that there is a certain type of Mima fan who will read "hints" of her return into anything they see, and take it so deeply personally when she doesn't come back that they will actually get angry at the game creator himself and believe he's trolling them.
Hence "entitlement."
.......It's funny how I come here to this thread, say something jokingly and innocently, without directing it to any user specifically, and then I get this kind of response, just wow... I must say I was not expecting that.
Are all moderators here as "user-friendly" with the others as you...? I thought this place was supposed to be a space for the touhou fans to gather and have fun, enjoy a good a conversation and all... however, if I come here and get flammed, get hit by pebbles, and get welcomed by a passive-agressive treatment, then the only thing I can guess is that I was wrong about the whole point and principle of this site, mmmm.
*quits*
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Excuse me sir, but if the hints are just SO INTENSE, then don't blame me for not being able to control my brain to the point of not even thinking about the return of a character. Back during the announcement of TD, I wasn't the only to have great expectations that Mima would return, but the majority of the fans thought the same as well. If it was just me, then it'd be a case apart, and thus, it'd be ignorable. However, the same assumption happened in large scale, so, it's far from being the fanbase's fault.
I take it you're fairly new to the community, so I'll let you in on a little secret. This round of "Mima will return" is exactly the same as every other one. And by that, I mean this has been going on for every game for years. When I first came to this community, MoF was only a few months old, and people were already complaining Mima wasn't in the game. Then SWR came and people thought she'd show up for some reason. Then people heard that SA involved evil spirits, and even thought Utsuho's silhouette resembled her. That wasn't Mima. Then she didn't show up in UFO because...well, obviously it had nothing to do with anything. Cue three games where she wasn't likely to appear, and Ten Desires rolled around. People flipped out at "divine spirits," even though if you thought about it even a little, Mima is the polar opposite of those. Every time there is talk of a resurrection, it is always someone who's been sealed away. Mima hasn't been sealed away since SoEW.
So it'll keep going on like this, with each game being her "greatest chance yet." Quite frankly, if you want to see Mima so bad, go play PC-98, where she has four appearances. Because as someone who has a reason to be around, her role is long obsolete.
.......It's funny how I come here to this thread, say something jokingly and innocently, without directing it to any user specifically, and then I get this kind of response, just wow... I must say I was not expecting that.
Are all moderators here as "user-friendly" with the others as you...? I thought this place was supposed to be a space for the touhou fans to gather and have fun, enjoy a good a conversation and all... however, if I come here and get flammed, get hit by pebbles, and get welcomed by a passive-agressive treatment, then the only thing I can guess is that I was wrong about the whole point and principle of this site, mmmm.
*quits*
Please understand that we are quite tired of the Mima fans whining every new game. It's not an attack on you personally.
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*quits*
Oh come on. You came into this thread expressing rage and exasperation that ZUN isn't catering to you and your Mima love. I don't know how long you've been in the fandom, but you must've been around long enough to know what a shitstorm such a sentiment can cause. I addressed your points fairly all the same.
If you cannot handle starting what you must have known was going to be a controversial discussion, then don't start one. You'll note that no one - myself included - treated you with anything but fairness here. Accusing people who disagree with you of having "flamed, thrown pebbles and given the passive-aggressive treatment" is not really great behavior, to be honest. It's not fair to anyone who might disagree with you to react this way.
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First off, Shastri's profile says she registered in 2009 and has been posting since at least 2010. I'd hardly call her "new".
Second of all, I'm not sure "entitlement" is the technically accurate term here.
Just sayin'.
Anyway, I'm done.
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First off, Shastri's profile says she registered in 2009 and has been posting since at least 2010. I'd hardly call her "new".
That I noticed as well, hence why I believe she must've known what dropping something like that in a new game thread was going to do.
Second of all, I'm not sure "entitlement" is the technically accurate term here.
What would you call it if someone believes they are owed something that they have not taken any direct part in bringing about?
I am pointing these things out more for thoroughness' sake than anything else because while I can (tearfully) live without any new Mima I feel you guys *are* being just a *bit* smarmy about the issue and being awfully quick to dismiss Shastri as spoiled.
I think "smarmy" applies pretty well to throwing accusations at people who disagree with you and then stomping off in a huff, but I guess we all have our own way of looking at things.
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Alright, I guess I'm skipping around my own point my point here and that is that while I don't know precisely HOW much so I don't consider ZUN above toying with his fans.
Just look at some of the stuff that was in Symposium of Post-Mysticism and how people sometimes blew up over that.
Therefore, mostly I'm questioning your claims of Shastri's claims of ZUN possibly being trolling as patently false.
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I take it you're fairly new to the community, so I'll let you in on a little secret. This round of "Mima will return" is exactly the same as every other one. And by that, I mean this has been going on for every game for years. When I first came to this community, MoF was only a few months old, and people were already complaining Mima wasn't in the game. Then SWR came and people thought she'd show up for some reason. Then people heard that SA involved evil spirits, and even thought Utsuho's silhouette resembled her. That wasn't Mima. Then she didn't show up in UFO because...well, obviously it had nothing to do with anything. Cue three games where she wasn't likely to appear, and Ten Desires rolled around. People flipped out at "divine spirits," even though if you thought about it even a little, Mima is the polar opposite of those. Every time there is talk of a resurrection, it is always someone who's been sealed away. Mima hasn't been sealed away since SoEW.
Not that you need another example, but obviously people were speculating that Mima would return back before MoF was released too. Although honestly I think it was somewhat more plausible back then, since we had recently gotten Yuuka in PoFV, so it seemed like she was next in line. It's been seven years since then though, with not a single PC-98 brought back in the meantime, so anyone who thinks ZUN still cares one way or another about them is deluding themselves. I personally just consider it a running joke. Honestly, I might feel a bit sad if it stopped happening completely.
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I don't know what you're talking about, but Mima's alive and well in Philly. :V
Anyway, keep in mind. EoSD (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Embodiment_of_Scarlet_Devil) was released in August 2002. So the waves of Mima rage have had the chance to build for ten years. It definitely gets old.
As a PC98 fan I can understand the hopes of some of the old cast returning, but don't expect Zun to do that. I'd say just enjoy what new things he creates.
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Therefore, mostly I'm questioning your claims of Shastri's claims of ZUN possibly being trolling as patently false.
Can you clarify this? Because she did say ZUN was trolling (here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13556.msg905398.html#msg905398)).
Also, what Meejee and Donut said.
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Can you clarify this? Because she did say ZUN was trolling (here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13556.msg905398.html#msg905398)).
Forgive my confusing wording.
You are dismissing Shastri's claim of ZUN trolling, and implying that Shastri is being insincere in this accusation. ZUN has done *some* things to get a reaction out of the audience, and I cite Symposium of Post-Mysticism as an example (see: the page on Nitori).
I hope that was clearer.
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Aye, it's worth saying that I'm as big a PC-98 fan as they come. I'm no Mima fan, but I always harbor futile hopes that someday we'll see someone return. But I'm also realistic enough to know that there's no point - I just have to enjoy them for where they do appear. What gets me is less the fact that people hope she returns, and more that people decry what is new on the sole basis that it's not a returning character.
Also, the allegations about SoPM confuse me. Some things were more than a little inciting, but I can't in good faith accuse ZUN of toying with us. Personally I still go with my explanation that Akyu has become a bitter teenager and stepped up her anti-youkai propaganda.
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Oh come on. You came into this thread expressing rage and exasperation that ZUN isn't catering to you and your Mima love. I don't know how long you've been in the fandom, but you must've been around long enough to know what a shitstorm such a sentiment can cause. I addressed your points fairly all the same.
If you cannot handle starting what you must have known was going to be a controversial discussion, then don't start one. You'll note that no one - myself included - treated you with anything but fairness here. Accusing people who disagree with you of having "flamed, thrown pebbles and given the passive-aggressive treatment" is not really great behavior, to be honest. It's not fair to anyone who might disagree with you to react this way.
Fair, fair enough. And I'm always wrong and you're always with the reason, isn't it? Mr. Self-Righteous.
Also, pfft, mima-love? As my last response to you, I just want to make it clear that I only used mima's example as a way to demonstrate that zun usually hints the return of a character but then ends up not bringing said character. TD's case was just one of the numerous examples. As for now, we are really expecting that Byakuren, Miko and cia are going to get playable, so, it's the same situation happening again.
So, please... would you stop misinterpreting me and calling be an obsessive mima fan? Please, don't group me together with them. And again, in case you have forgotten my previous words already. I only used Mima's case as an example of zun's recurring habits to hint random characters, it doesn't mean that I wanted her to return, I didn't get that upset after seeing she didn't come back in the end, because in a way or another, we still got pretty cool new characters.
Besides, I didn't even put much thought on my earliest posts, no, I wasn't trying to cause a "shitstorm" and no, I wasn't even aware it'd become such a flamming avalanche. If I know that would happen, if I was aware that the community here takes the slightest of things so offensively, then I'd stay quiet, true story.
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Also, the allegations about SoPM confuse me. Some things were more than a little inciting, but I can't in good faith accuse ZUN of toying with us. Personally I still go with my explanation that Akyu has become a bitter teenager and stepped up her anti-youkai propaganda.
My impression of the Nitori article is that Akyuu knows nothing whatsoever about Nitori so she just wrote some generic things about kappa.
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My impression of the Nitori article is that Akyuu knows nothing whatsoever about Nitori so she just wrote some generic things about kappa.
A little from column A and a little from column B I think. In-universe that make sense, in-fandom I know that some people exploded when ZUN presented a Nitori that shy and friendly like she acted in MoF.
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Forgive my confusing wording.
You are dismissing Shastri's claim of ZUN trolling, and implying that Shastri is being insincere in this accusation. ZUN has done *some* things to get a reaction out of the audience, and I cite Symposium of Post-Mysticism as an example (see: the page on Nitori).
I hope that was clearer.
It is clearer.
I didn't say it was insincere; on the contrary, I'm sure she means it.
And I respectfully disagree that ZUN is deliberately dropping hints of Mima's return. I think it's pure projection.
Fair, fair enough. And I'm always wrong and you're always with the reason, isn't it? Mr. Self-Righteous, etc.
Well this isn't a great way to have a discussion, but do bear in mind that what you expressed in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13556.msg905398.html#msg905398) is very different from what you're saying now, and was what I was responding to. If you meant something else, then say something else. It ain't rocket science.
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And I respectfully disagree that ZUN is deliberately dropping hints of Mima's return. I think it's pure projection.
I wasn't talking just Mima. Similar complaints could apply to the theories that Shinki would show up in UFO.
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Also, pfft, mima-love? As my last response to you, I just want to make it clear that I only used mima's example as a way to demonstrate that zun usually hints the return of a character but then ends up not bringing said character. TD's case was just one of the numerous examples. As for now, we are really expecting that Byakuren, Miko and cia are going to get playable, so, it's the same situation happening again.
It was only a huge hint if you were looking through the standard issue Mima-goggles. No reasonable person thought she would return. By contrast, SoPM contained more dialog from these three characters than pretty much any character has ever gotten before. They are already at least 10 times more important than Mima and they've appeared more recently than ten years ago. And I'm not even gonna touch the controversial PC-98/Windows divide. The fact that you think the situations are at all similar is only evidence of your fundamental bias.
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ALso another thing I was trying to point out is that at least one person was theorizing she must be a n00b when her profile indicates she's been around at least a while.
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I wasn't talking just Mima. Similar complaints could apply to the theories that Shinki would show up in UFO.
That's pretty weird. Again, I think it's speculation. And goes against pretty much anything ZUN's ever said about his approach to the games.
ALso another thing I was trying to point out is that at least one person was theorizing she must be a n00b when her profile indicates she's been around at least a while.
Another way to interpret that is that Donut was trying to extend the benefit of the doubt.
(Sorry about accidentally editing your post there - hit Modify when I meant to hit Quote.)
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That's pretty weird. Again, I think it's speculation. And goes against pretty much anything ZUN's ever said about his approach to the games.
Fair enough. I just think that making connections of that sort is an easy, if flawed, conclusion to reach and that there should be SLIGHTLY less ichor levelled at PC-98 speculah just simply because I at least think it's understandable.
As for why there would be a Shinki/UFO connection, who ELSE were people supposed to expect from the first return trip to Makai in around a half-dozen games? :V
(It'd be weird for Shinki to have a flock of youkai worshipping her as a saint, admittedly.)
Another way to interpret that is that Donut was trying to extend the benefit of the doubt.
(Sorry about accidentally editing your post there - hit Modify when I meant to hit Quote.)
Noted and noted (though I didn't see any edit so yay I think).
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The Shinki thing is marginally understandable, but yeah, wasn't what we were talking about here. And as ZUN has specifically sworn off PC-98 completely, on the record, I think expecting it to happen would be quite a stretch. No harm in hoping for it, of course, like I and others have said, of course. But gettin' pouty and ragey about ZUN not doing something he's said he's never going to do is kinda unfair to the dude, I think.
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I figure not everyone has heard ZUN's official declaration on the matter.
I think what we have here is the tendency of the internet to muddle/distort communication and a fandom that is highly, highly internet-based.
Which means suffice it to say big surprise people get hacked off so easily. :V
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The fact that you think the situations are at all similar is only evidence of your fundamental bias.
Ehhhh? Bias? Just...... ugh. Seriously... I'm at a loss of words here. I really can't understand how people here manage to get so offended with such petty things... my goodness. That wasn't even directed to you, so why? But whatever, you may interpret me as way you desire, I won't just waste my time trying to keep defending myself knowing my words won't even bring fruits here.
@Tengukami:
Well sorry then. That was just poor phrasing. To be honest, I won't deny I became a bit excited with the chance that she would return, because she is a cool character. But what I was trying to say, is that I didn't get so upset with the outcome of TD's final version. We got plenty of nice characters after all, but I'd get more upset if the same thing happened to Byakuren and cia. Hence why I used Mima's case as an example, because it was a similiar situation that actually happened in the past, so, it has a huge chance to repeat again now. Does that make things clear?
(And besides, no, I'm far from being a "n00b". In case you need to know, I've been around touhou since the rellease of the fangame Super Marisa World, it was what got me into the series, and I found it by accident while trying to find mario clones to play. So, you can say I've been around for quite a while. I even had an account on the "older MoTK" as well for that matter, but I stopped coming because of certain nasty arguements I had with some users, but that's another story).
Please just drop this discussion here, we aren't getting anywhere.
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Ehhhh? Bias? Just...... ugh. Seriously... I'm at a loss of words here. I really can't understand how people here manage to get so offended with such petty things... my goodness. That wasn't even directed to you, so why? But whatever, you may interpret me as way you desire, I won't just waste my time trying to keep defending myself knowing my words won't even bring fruits here.
Bias isn't a particularly offensive word. Everyone has biases.
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And besides, no, I'm far from being a "n00b".
I know you've been here a while and have said so, a few times now.
But anyway:
But what I was trying to say, is that I didn't get so upset with the outcome of TD's final version. We got plenty of nice characters after all, but I'd get more upset if the same thing happened to Byakuren and cia. Hence why I used Mima's case as an example, because it was a similiar situation that actually happened in the past, so, it has a huge chance to repeat again now. Does that make things clear?
I think "similar" is debatable and is what Clarste is talking about (and by the by, "bias" is not necessarily a dirty word - we all have biases). Some Windows characters repeat more than others, as we know. One thing that's certain, though, is that ZUN has declared (http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/92#more-92) the characters of PC-98 to be "elsewhere" and will not be coming back. So the two are not really comparable at all - Windows characters have at least a chance of returning; Mima doesn't. I'm glad that you're excited about new characters and all, but yeah, the "ZUN is trolling" is really tiresome and rubs a great many people the wrong way.
Fortunately, a great many people seem to be happily surprised with the arrival of new characters to love (or love to hate, as the case may be), and if you're actually among them, despite the "I'm tired of this trollage" comment, well, awesome.
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I think "similar" is debatable and is what Clarste is talking about (and by the by, "bias" is not necessarily a dirty word - we all have biases). Some Windows characters repeat more than others, as we know. One thing that's certain, though, is that ZUN has declared (http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/92#more-92) the characters of PC-98 to be "elsewhere" and will not be coming back. So the two are not really comparable at all - Windows characters have at least a chance of returning; Mima doesn't. I'm glad that you're excited about new characters and all, but yeah, the "ZUN is trolling" is really tiresome and rubs a great many people the wrong way.
Fortunately, a great many people seem to be happily surprised with the arrival of new characters to love (or love to hate, as the case may be), and if you're actually among them, despite the "I'm tired of this trollage" comment, well, awesome.
Well, I'm glad things returned to the normal state now, I'm sorry for causing confusion and messing up with the smooth discussion here by accident.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure Zun won't bring the PC-98 characters back anymore, but it's not a big deal, at least I'll still be happy if I see the religious leaders as playable characters on HM. If possible, along with some of their underlings. That would be more than enough to make it a great game.
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Oh, and I'll apologize too, to get everything straightened out. I misinterpreted your statement, and I never actually checked to see when you did register. ;^^ Now everything makes more sense, so no hard feelings, yeah?
On that note, Kotohime would fit right in with the cast of -
/me is found dead the next morning
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GUYS
GUYS
It's called Hopeless MASQUERADE
As in MASK
As in that song (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Lyrics:_Mask) by ALiCE'S EMOTiON
WAIT - Not about ALICE
That song is a remix of the SoEW Stage 4 theme.
WAIT - Not about MARISA, because she has her own theme.
THAT'S RIGHT
YOU GUESSED IT
THIS (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Unnamed_Midbosses#SoEW_4th_Stage_Midboss) is going to be the FINAL BOSS of TH13.5
Totally calling it. :smug:
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awesome logic
Now that's a great chance for Sariel to return! She could be the extra boss, after revealing she is her mother!!!
And consequently, Shinki would return as well, because nameless SoEW stage 4 midboss is sariel's daughter, and Sariel is in Makai, and Makai was created by shinki, so shinki is Sariel's mother as well! Hooray! :getdown:
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That may be true, but it seems like it is too much of a coincidence for Tenshi's ability to match both Kanako and Suwako, being able to control both the atmosphere and the ground.
While not directly related to the issue at hand, I'm going to address this, for it brings up some interesting facts not likely to be known by western fans.
Kanako and Suwako's abilities are not about 'atmosphere' and ground in a traditional sense. In fact Kanako's has nothing to do with the air at all. Kanako has the ability to create Qian(乾), and Suwako the creation of Kun(坤). There are many books on the meanings of these, so I'll just touch on them because the whole thing is quite complex. Qian, despite often being translated as sky, heaven, etc; means nothing else but 'Qian' it was specifically named as such by King Wen. Qian represents the nature and function of Heaven, it carries four attributes of a Emperor: Sublime and initiative, prosperous and smooth, favorable and beneficial, steadfast and upright. It is the Tao of initiating, the perfect time and place.
Kun is the passive, or receptive principle. The opposite, and complement to Qian. Creation and reception, initiation and submission, yang and yin. They unite and work as one. The attributes of Kun are responsiveness, flexibility, devotion and humility. Kun requires energy from Qian to create, Qian sows the seeds and Kun causes them to grow. The earth responds to heaven but must still be true to itself. Confucius' comments that Kun possesses beauty, but is concealed; it engages in a King's service, yet takes no credit.
As you can see this describes Kanako, Suwako and the relationship between them. Kanako is attempting to change gensokyo as a direct figure, and Suwako plays key roles behind the scenes. Both are required to make something possible. It's far more than weather/wind, and earth manipulation.
So uh, the more you know!
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While not directly related to the issue at hand, I'm going to address this, for it brings up some interesting facts not likely to be known by western fans.
Kanako and Suwako's abilities are not about 'atmosphere' and ground in a traditional sense. In fact Kanako's has nothing to do with the air at all. Kanako has the ability to create Qian(乾), and Suwako the creation of Kun(坤). There are many books on the meanings of these, so I'll just touch on them because the whole thing is quite complex. Qian, despite often being translated as sky, heaven, etc; means nothing else but 'Qian' it was specifically named as such by King Wen. Qian represents the nature and function of Heaven, it carries four attributes of a Emperor: Sublime and initiative, prosperous and smooth, favorable and beneficial, steadfast and upright. It is the Tao of initiating, the perfect time and place.
Kun is the passive, or receptive principle. The opposite, and complement to Qian. Creation and reception, initiation and submission, yang and yin. They unite and work as one. The attributes of Kun are responsiveness, flexibility, devotion and humility. Kun requires energy from Qian to create, Qian sows the seeds and Kun causes them to grow. The earth responds to heaven but must still be true to itself. Confucius' comments that Kun possesses beauty, but is concealed; it engages in a King's service, yet takes no credit.
As you can see this describes Kanako, Suwako and the relationship between them. Kanako is attempting to change gensokyo as a direct figure, and Suwako plays key roles behind the scenes. Both are required to make something possible. It's far more than weather/wind, and earth manipulation.
So uh, the more you know!
That's pretty cool. I've been wondering about that. Thanks.
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While not directly related to the issue at hand, I'm going to address this, for it brings up some interesting facts not likely to be known by western fans.
Kanako and Suwako's abilities are not about 'atmosphere' and ground in a traditional sense. In fact Kanako's has nothing to do with the air at all. Kanako has the ability to create Qian(乾), and Suwako the creation of Kun(坤). There are many books on the meanings of these, so I'll just touch on them because the whole thing is quite complex. Qian, despite often being translated as sky, heaven, etc; means nothing else but 'Qian' it was specifically named as such by King Wen. Qian represents the nature and function of Heaven, it carries four attributes of a Emperor: Sublime and initiative, prosperous and smooth, favorable and beneficial, steadfast and upright. It is the Tao of initiating, the perfect time and place.
Kun is the passive, or receptive principle. The opposite, and complement to Qian. Creation and reception, initiation and submission, yang and yin. They unite and work as one. The attributes of Kun are responsiveness, flexibility, devotion and humility. Kun requires energy from Qian to create, Qian sows the seeds and Kun causes them to grow. The earth responds to heaven but must still be true to itself. Confucius' comments that Kun possesses beauty, but is concealed; it engages in a King's service, yet takes no credit.
As you can see this describes Kanako, Suwako and the relationship between them. Kanako is attempting to change gensokyo as a direct figure, and Suwako plays key roles behind the scenes. Both are required to make something possible. It's far more than weather/wind, and earth manipulation.
So uh, the more you know!
This is actually really cool. Touhouwiki does mention this on Kanako and Suwako's profiles, but not in-depth. Maybe you can put this there?
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While not directly related to the issue at hand, I'm going to address this, for it brings up some interesting facts not likely to be known by western fans.
Kanako and Suwako's abilities are not about 'atmosphere' and ground in a traditional sense. In fact Kanako's has nothing to do with the air at all. Kanako has the ability to create Qian(乾), and Suwako the creation of Kun(坤). There are many books on the meanings of these, so I'll just touch on them because the whole thing is quite complex. Qian, despite often being translated as sky, heaven, etc; means nothing else but 'Qian' it was specifically named as such by King Wen. Qian represents the nature and function of Heaven, it carries four attributes of a Emperor: Sublime and initiative, prosperous and smooth, favorable and beneficial, steadfast and upright. It is the Tao of initiating, the perfect time and place.
Kun is the passive, or receptive principle. The opposite, and complement to Qian. Creation and reception, initiation and submission, yang and yin. They unite and work as one. The attributes of Kun are responsiveness, flexibility, devotion and humility. Kun requires energy from Qian to create, Qian sows the seeds and Kun causes them to grow. The earth responds to heaven but must still be true to itself. Confucius' comments that Kun possesses beauty, but is concealed; it engages in a King's service, yet takes no credit.
As you can see this describes Kanako, Suwako and the relationship between them. Kanako is attempting to change gensokyo as a direct figure, and Suwako plays key roles behind the scenes. Both are required to make something possible. It's far more than weather/wind, and earth manipulation.
So uh, the more you know!
This is awesome! For me it was just bland sky/earth manipulation. Never thought the concepts of Qian and Kun were so deep.
Basing on your words, from what I can see the one that manipulates earth per se is Tenshi then. Mmm.
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That may be true, but it seems like it is too much of a coincidence for Tenshi's ability to match both Kanako and Suwako, being able to control both the atmosphere and the ground.
Hey, you didn't mention this the last time I tried to talk about the thematic parallels between MoF, Vignettes of Ephemeral Moon and SWR!
Qian, despite often being translated as sky, heaven, etc; means nothing else but 'Qian' it was specifically named as such by King Wen.
That's a good post! A nitpick: Qian and Kun, and the eight trigrams, all dates to before King Wen. By tradition, the eight trigrams are invented by Fuxi, father of mankind. From a modern science PoV, they must be invented by some ancient tribes before the Zhou dynasty.
The internet tells me, the root meaning of Qian is "like a plant growing up" (Source: 說文解字 Shuowen Jiezi).
In MoF terms, Kanako is a cultural goddess, a representation of a certain human tribe themselves; Suwako is a cthonic goddess, a representation of geographic phenomenon (specifically the Suwa lake, see WaHH Chapter 4). Their modi operandi are bound to be different.
Heaven and earth. The dichotomy actually has rather consistent symbolic meanings throughout the 3 stories (MoF, Vignettes of Ephemeral Moon and SWR)...
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In MoF terms, Kanako is a cultural goddess, a representation of a certain human tribe themselves; Suwako is a cthonic goddess, a representation of geographic phenomenon (specifically the Suwa lake, see WaHH Chapter 4). Their modi operandi are bound to be different.
Heaven and earth. The dichotomy actually has rather consistent symbolic meanings throughout the 3 stories (MoF, Vignettes of Ephemeral Moon and SWR)...
In that case, I wonder what it might mean for the balance between Kanako and Suwako now that Kanako is gaining fame as a goddess of technological innovation, as she mentions at some point during the actual symposium in SoPM.
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I'm a bit confused now - I see that the powers that Kanako and Suwako manipulate are kinds of qi, but what does manipulating - or even creating them - do?
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Tier Lists don't matter for advanced players either. Players at that level can keep in mind what their personal hard matchups are already, being you know, human beings capable of memory capacity and being in posesion of the ability to learn from mistakes and pick up patterns ("Oh, I seem to always lose against Hazama when I'm Tager, and nothing I've explored seems to make the match any easier; I should look out for Hazamas and find some new strategy or character to deal with this problem"). You'll never see a GF winner saying anything like "Yeah, I thought for sure I was going to lose, but then I remembered that he was using a low tier character! Thanks to that wonderful tier list, I was able to take the set!"
you won't see a GF winner saying "Yeah, I thought for sure that my Chun Li was going to lose, but then I remembered that he was using Sean!" either, hahah :D (there are other examples of dominant characters/teams such as MvsC2's Magneto/Sentinel/Storm, Garou's Kevin Ryan, KoF 2003's Duo Lon, ST's Akuma, I heard that the latter, at least in Japan, requires the user to input the unlock code correctly for every match he's in, else he's instantly removed from the tournament. Still, he's.. Akuma tier in that game.)
Fun fact: low-tier characters can, at times, be used for the sole purpose of putting your opponent off (read more here (http://flashyreview.com/2011/06/meta-kombat-justin-wong-and-the-dragon-punch-to-the-mind/)).
>> Players at that level can keep in mind what their personal hard matchups are already, being you know, human beings capable of memory capacity and being in posesion of the ability to learn from mistakes and pick up patterns
if someone feels like their favorite character's moveset/attributes fits their playstyle better, it's okay to try to find a way around their matchup problem. It's good when/if the game gives them such a possibility (meaning that the character doesn't suffer as much from specific matchups). It's not good when/if changing your character is the least effort for the same (or better) results in that specific matchup, balance-wise. Having too many problems against too many characters (such as lack of resources for creating openings or taking good enough advantage of them -- basically, having to work way harder than your opponent) is, generally speaking, what makes a low-tier character, a low-tier character.
>> Tier Lists don't matter for advanced players either.
more often than not, tier lists reflect which characters have the highest chances at winning tournaments or placing well. (I'd say, "which characters have the highest chance of winning when used well")
tier lists are subject to changes when games receive updates, or the players discover new technology (like your example; if said Tager player is able to research or discover a new way to beat Hazama's tactics, it's an improvement in the Tager's tech/repertoire), and then are remade after enough game theory has developed. They're not set in stone (you don't say you won because of the tier list), but using a low-tier character without being aware of its deficiencies or without having something new to show (new technology, such as a new combo, a new setup, a new way to counter or a new frametrap/mixup, etc.) doesn't excuse you from losing. That's the equivalent of purposedly lowering your winning chances. (some people joke about people who're biased against high-tier characters, saying things like "hello, I'm a low-tier user. If you win, you're a tier-whore; if you lose, you're a n00b/I'm awesome.")
As a final consideration, it's acceptable to have matchup imbalances; it's not, though, to have nearly-useless characters (useless tier) or to have dominant characters (overpowered tier) that forces every other player to use said dominant characters (or slightly worse ones) to have just as high chances of winning. Both of these tiers contribute for lowering the viability of a number of characters or character-specific resources in a character roster, and lowering the depth of the game.
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This is actually really cool. Touhouwiki does mention this on Kanako and Suwako's profiles, but not in-depth. Maybe you can put this there?
A good idea, I may do so in the future.
That's a good post! A nitpick: Qian and Kun, and the eight trigrams, all dates to before King Wen. By tradition, the eight trigrams are invented by Fuxi, father of mankind. From a modern science PoV, they must be invented by some ancient tribes before the Zhou dynasty.
The internet tells me, the root meaning of Qian is "like a plant growing up" (Source: 說文解字 Shuowen Jiezi).
Well as I said: I was merely touching on the subject. I certainly didn't mean to imply the original trigrams were invented solely by King Wen. However, King Wen wrote the hexagram judgements and set a new order to them. Essentially any modern understanding comes from his work, and those who followed. The I Ching looks nothing like the pre-Zhou diviner handbook the trigrams originated from, a part of its greatness is from the commentaries and insights provided by scholars throughout the ages. But that's another story.
'like a plant growing up' refers to the four attributes of Qian: sublime and initiative, prosperous and smooth, favorable and beneficial, steadfast and upright. Or: sprouting, growing, blooming and bearing fruit.
In that case, I wonder what it might mean for the balance between Kanako and Suwako now that Kanako is gaining fame as a goddess of technological innovation, as she mentions at some point during the actual symposium in SoPM.
Suwako was instrumental in building the Temple, and presumably any other infrastructure that has, or will, be needed. Attempting to become a goddess of technological innovation is exactly the sort of revolutionary process that is characteristic of Qian and thus needs a strong basis to work from. Suwako certainly doesn't seem to mind Kanako's ambitions thus far.
I'm a bit confused now - I see that the powers that Kanako and Suwako manipulate are kinds of qi, but what does manipulating - or even creating them - do?
If it was simple to understand it wouldn't be of the Tao! Elucidating things a bit more could take quite some time, sorry.
To completely bypass that, think about what 'manipulation of fate', 'manipulation of boundaries', 'ability to eat anything' could possibly entail, and be thankful there are religions and philosophies involving Qian, Kun and the like, to draw from.
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I'm a bit confused now - I see that the powers that Kanako and Suwako manipulate are kinds of qi, but what does manipulating - or even creating them - do?
I don't think it means much at all. Powers are self-reported. These concepts are simply how the characters like to describe themselves.
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The issue, which I acknowledge pretty well, is that it might not even matter for Hopeless Masquerade if none of us are expecting it to be a decent fighting game at that level anyway. 99% of soku players either play within their own communities or just run arcade mode whenever they play it. I'd really like to see Hopeless Masquerade reach a level of balance where it's actually feasible to have a non-disgusting tournament scene based around it though.
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I'm kinda hoping that they'd use Eternal Fighter Zero's (another Tasofro game) engine.
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Hey, you didn't mention this the last time I tried to talk about the thematic parallels between MoF, Vignettes of Ephemeral Moon and SWR!
I probably missed it or misunderstood what was being said, so I did not make any comments on it.
99% of soku players either play within their own communities or just run arcade mode whenever they play it. I'd really like to see Hopeless Masquerade reach a level of balance where it's actually feasible to have a non-disgusting tournament scene based around it though.
I was under the impression that this only applies to the western Fanbase. This game may not be as big as other titles, but I was unaware that it is no longer competitively played.
And where are you getting your latter impression? Can you post proof?
I'm a bit confused now - I see that the powers that Kanako and Suwako manipulate are kinds of qi, but what does manipulating - or even creating them - do?
The simpliest answer is the translation you see. Kanako can manipulate the sky and Suwako can manipulate the earth.
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The simpliest answer is the translation you see. Kanako can manipulate the sky and Suwako can manipulate the earth.
The intention of my post was to correct this type of thought, as it is wrong on several levels. Chiefly that the Japanese (and even the translations) don't use 'manipulation' but instead use 'creation' they also don't use the words/kanji for 'sky' and 'earth' but Qian and Kun. 'Creation of sky', doesn't make sense, creation of earth is a bit better; but not by much. It's important to recognize that it's 'creation of Qian/Kun', even if you don't fully understand the underlying system.
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I'd honestly rather not give you proof at this point Starxsword, because I already have with that entire tournament playlist. Talking about how bad Soku's balance is depresses me. But just consider that Iku does more damage with no spellcard usage at all compared to an Aya using Illusionary Dominance. If you want proof for yourself, just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVjgjRC7zzc and tell me with a straight face that the weather system doesn't favor rush down characters that can repeatedly knock you down and apply okizeme. Or say it was just bad luck on Alice's part, whatever.
In general, tournament life of a game does not extend beyond a few years unless the developers are constantly updating and supporting the game, which Tasofro doesn't. I can think of really easy changes that would have gone a long ways towards making some characters less stupid (Sakuya's j2a carries momentum meaning she can't auto-punish Border Escapes with a tkj2a, lowering blockstun on Remilia C bullets, etc.), but Tasofro has touched the basic tools of the girls very sparingly.
On a side note, this has me thinking about Meiling/Kanako/Suwako relations. It would be interesting to see how their powers interact, if I'm understanding this right.
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The issue, which I acknowledge pretty well, is that it might not even matter for Hopeless Masquerade if none of us are expecting it to be a decent fighting game at that level anyway.
I'm reminded of the phrase "living down to one's expectations" - if people make up their minds ahead of time that something's going to suck before they even see it, let alone play it, there is an almost guaranteed chance that their experience with the game is going to confirm their expectations. It's the opposite of the effect "hype" has, where inflated expectations can make people rationalize away flaws and bugs as actual features. Deciding ahead of time that the game is going to be terrible will, inevitably, lead to an experience that completely fits that expectation.
Bear in mind this is a general rule, with exceptions, and not meant to apply to each and every person in the world ever.
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Talking about how bad Soku's balance is depresses me. But just consider that Iku does more damage with no spellcard usage at all compared to an Aya using Illusionary Dominance. If you want proof for yourself, just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVjgjRC7zzc and tell me with a straight face that the weather system doesn't favor rush down characters that can repeatedly knock you down and apply okizeme. Or say it was just bad luck on Alice's part, whatever.
Yes, I could say that. Why not look at this one then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJVQXe_2fjY, Looking more fair isn't it? Even though Sakuya won, it could have gone either way.
As for Aya's Illusionary Dominance, that is a poor comparison. You have to also remember about proration, which happens since Illusionary Dominance does so many hits. Why not compare Aya's easy basic combos with Iku's easy combos? We are comparing a VERY FAST character to a slow character. That is like complaining that Vega's damage is insufficient compared to Zangeif.
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Thanks for telling me where to look in the video (Nice to see SBO still has Soku, though it's beyond me as to why), by the way, and it didn't. Alice was already double guard broken twice within the beginnings of round one, soon to be followed with another forced Border Escape. Then an easy Border Escape punish because Sakuya is Sakuya, Sakuya being sloppy and missing a combo during time slow, Alice being QUADRUPLE guard broken because she was forced into Border Escape again, the commentator's laughing saying 'oh man, that's Sakuya for you', and that's round one. I really wouldn't call any match where one person spent the entirety of the first round with three or less orbs 'fair'. Outright sloppy play from Sakuya in the second round, getting counter hit 6a'd and not properly doing an easy blockstring in the corner, and then still taking the round despite Alice maintaining a decent doll coverage the entire round. Also note how the commentators said 'once chance', which in Japanese commentating generally means that someone has 'one chance to comeback'. It wasn't 'okay now it's even', it was 'okay Alice has one chance to win this.' No, not very fair at all.
That was the not-serious example for a reason, by the way; illusionary dominance is outdamaged by most three to four spellcards in the game in total reward if not actual damage output. The point made there is that not even spellcard cost to reward is balanced well; Illusionary Dominance gives pitiful damage and somewhat average okizeme if used correctly, which takes practice, in comparison to say Master Spark which does the exact same thing for more damage and a little less Okizeme at two cards less. It's a given that some supers will be better than others, but this is to the level of an 60% meter super being better than a 100% super, and easier to use, across the board. All the best spellcards are around 2-3 card level. This is a more general fighting game complaint though, and you'll find this in Blazblue and P4U/P4A as well.
@Ammy: I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm trying not to keep them really low. Working entirely from Tasofro's history, I'm already skeptical about this game as a tournament fighter. I've no doubt whatsoever that 90% of the people who get it, being Touhou fans and probably not fighting game players, will like/love it, and if that's the targeted outcome then not much I can do. When I see the demo in November is when I'll really have an opinion on it as a competitive fighting game. I'm not saying I'm walking into this with an open mind, but I'm not convinced it will suck completely either. Soku had fun parts that could have been really cool. I just hope Tasofro learned how to get rid of the sketchy bits. I honestly have no doubts whatsoever that we'll get an interesting new character or two, an interesting story, and probably amazing music and rearranges. It's just the 'fighting game' part of 'Touhou Fighting Game' that has me worried.
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It's an interesting thing, the ways both hype and pessimism for a Thing Not Yet Here will color our actual experience of the thing when we finally do play it. We're not robots, and very few are going to approach a new Touhou game with absolute impartiality, unless they avoided any sort of up-coming game discussion threads before playing it. And those who have gone on record as being hype or pessimist about the next release are even less likely to change their minds once they actually play it - their words are on display for all to see; this encourages the mind to believe they predicted correctly.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's hard to pass judgement when we're all guilty of being feeling, fallible human beings who actively create our own biases. We oughta admit from the start that we will be playing these new games through the lens of our biases, and be very suspicious of anyone who claims objectivity. Having biases and owning them is a good thing - it gives everyone a more accurate picture of the nature and qualities of the game itself.
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I'm almost sure it's a bad thing that basically everything that's been posted in this thread, except the last one, for some time now has either offended me, flabbergasted me or just kept me away from this thread. :ohdear:
...This is still the Hopeless Masquerade thread, right? As inappropriate as it seems at the moment to actually post anything related to our guesses and expectations of the game.
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Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. The thread is open to everyone. Character speculation and tournament theory are both welcome as long as discussion of each stays within site rules.
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That was the not-serious example for a reason, by the way; illusionary dominance is outdamaged by most three to four spellcards in the game in total reward if not actual damage output.
Yes, I understand that it gets out damaged by other cards, but that doesn't make it a bad spell card. Damage isn't the only thing that is going for that card. I believe Sakuya's knives card are a good example of not so high damage, but still a good card.
Thanks for telling me where to look in the video (Nice to see SBO still has Soku, though it's beyond me as to why), by the way, and it didn't.
Why is it still there? Well, most likely because it is competitively viable.
Also note how the commentators said 'once chance', which in Japanese commentating generally means that someone has 'one chance to comeback'. It wasn't 'okay now it's even', it was 'okay Alice has one chance to win this.' No, not very fair at all.
When did they make this comment, can you specify for context? People generally don't say "okay, now it's even" when a person is far behind. We aren't even talking about mismatches here. You can see this comment anywhere.
Then an easy Border Escape punish because Sakuya is Sakuya, Sakuya being sloppy and missing a combo during time slow, Alice being QUADRUPLE guard broken because she was forced into Border Escape again, the commentator's laughing saying 'oh man, that's Sakuya for you', and that's round one.
The same way the Remilia player was sloppy, it happens. It doesn't mean that the fight is unfair. What I am trying to say is that you have a weird sense of fairness when there are clearly different characters used in this game and the other game's tournament that you posted in the finals.
An unfair game would imply that there would be multiple Sakuya players in the quarterfinals if she is really so good.
Now, don't mistake this for me not believing she is top tier, she definitely is. But I contend your argument that it is imbalanced.
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If you haven't gotten the clue yet, Starxsword, I don't like talking about Hisoutensoku because it devolves into complaints about balance issues, and most other people in the thread don't want to see me whine about something that doesn't even concern them. So rather than fill up the thread with more pointless babble about Soku's balance that will completely frustrate me and not change your opinion at all, and since I really don't care that your opinion differs from mine (power to you), let's just agree to disagree. 'kay? 'kay.
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I, personally, like tracking where the various things from fandom started from.
The fighting games are official, and it is a completely different genre, so many new things comes from the fighting games.
Izayoi Sakuya
People mention Dio Brando poses, but I've yet to confirm it myself.
And one of the most well-known( and stupid) memes started from the portrait.
Alice Margatroid
Exploding dolls, Shanghai Doll's design, and the amazing Margatroid Kick all started from here.
It also gave the dolls various weapons such as swords, lances, shields and toothbrushes.
I also want to say that Shanghai Doll as an individual doll also comes from here,
but because the trail versions of th08 and th075 appeared at the same time, it is impossible to know which came first.
By the way, Alice in th08 is absolute crap. (personal opinion)
Patchouli Knowledge
Visual representation of Philosopher's Stone. Someone might say it had the effect of limiting creativity of the various artists. Also, mukyuu.
Remilia Scarlet
Spear the Gungnir is Remilia's de facto signature Spell Card. (personal opinion). Also the iconic crouching guard.
Yakumo Yukari
Signposts and trains. And the 'gapping' ability was first demonstrated here. A lot.
Also proved that the Yakumos are very good at spinning around. (personal opinion)
Ibuki Suika
Mini-Suikas and Missing Power. Being a mist is cool, too.
I thought it wouldn't be possible to do it in a danmaku game, but ZUN managed to show both aspects in Double Spoiler.
Nagae Iku
Due to the whims of a few people (the sprite designers), Iku knows how to Saturday Night Fever.
It is almost impossible to think of Iku without Saturday Night Fever. (personal opinion)
If it wasn't a fighting game, Iku wouldn't have been associated with Saturday Night Fever.
Reiuji Utsuho
This is where her arm cannon became canon. Real control rods aren't supposed to do that.
Maybe there would be something amazing in this game that will go on for eternity. No-one will ever know until it actually happens.
Nobody knew Kasodani Kyouko would get a punk band. Nobody knew Keine would be associated with headbutts.
Speaking of Keine, I think that it is possible for Keine to appear in the new game, since it involves the human village.
Not like I have high expectations on it anyways. Just according to the plot, anyone has a chance to appear.
And the game should have a option to at least turn off the 3D background or something.
I'm quite convinced that it won't run on my laptop without anything to reduce CPU usage.
I always preferred 'Old-School' graphics. High Quality is extravagance. (personal opinion)
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Oh, let's do talk about (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFUytu2F9bY) - Soku's travesty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqaN54sPyk) - of a balance. (http://hisouten.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/sokuplus/) It's such a fun way to vent and kind of a priviledge to even have a fighting game that we can rant about :V.
Yeah, a salty Sanae player there.
I'm actually highly optimistic about HM in that regard. It's not like you can do worse than making one of the game's key mechanics into a near-roulette that breaks the game back and forth (Typhoon, Mountain Vapor and River Mist yay). It's survival of the fittest. Not sure about IaMP though. I've heard a few that even barring decks and weather it's much better balanced and more technical than 12.3, but would be nice to hear a word from someone who's actually into it competitively.
Also, I have mixed feelings about ZUN announcing that HM will be released at Comiket 83. I plan for this game to be my main future way of introducing my friends that play fighting games into Touhous (Soku's too complicated to get someone into it from scratch before he/she loses interest due to being creamed), and I'd gladly wait till the next Comiket / Reitaisai if that meant bigger roster or better balance... It'll propably be only an early trial version though.
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Seeing an unranked Yuyuko take out the 2nd best Sanae just makes me sad.
If you're wondering where the rankings are coming from, btw, quoted from the first video in the Kouryuusen playlist:
'Pretty much 90% of the players in this tournament hide their stats from Tenco, the Hisoutensoku stat tracker.
However, pretty much 90% of the players are ranked community wise in the top 10 players of their respective character.
It's very hard to find matches and replays of some of these players on nico or youtube, so knock yourself out.
If you've ever wanted to see how KamiG and TR play Soku, well here's your chance.
If I list a player's rank it is going by the BBS ranking they have been given.'
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I'm actually highly optimistic about HM in that regard. It's not like you can do worse than making one of the game's key mechanics into a near-roulette that breaks the game back and forth (Typhoon, Mountain Vapor and River Mist yay). It's survival of the fittest. Not sure about IaMP though. I've heard a few that even barring decks and weather it's much better balanced and more technical than 12.3, but would be nice to hear a word from someone who's actually into it competitively.
can't say I play IaMP competitively (level-wise), and can't compare both games' balance or technical depth at high level play, either. Both are played differently, so I guess I'll point out some key differences so you or others can decide for themselves which is more technical or not :p
It seemed to me that SWR attempted to deal with "frustration factors" in IaMP and/or be easier to get into or attract new players, so, going over said "frustration factors" (which, like stated before, shouldn't affect high-level play)..
- combos: from a beginner's standpoint, it probably is nice to feel able to perform and watch the same combos he/she see people using often. Also, not having to worry about knowing or memorizing or deciding which combo you should use for which range (under the risk of dropping the combo or whiffing your attacks and be punished or being at frame disadvantage on block), or which commands to input, or which timing to cancel or juggle your opponent with. A number of games have incorporated such feature in them. (combos which are actually sub-optimal but easy to use and obvious enough for beginners to focus their attention to)
- supers: beginners may or may not have a difficulty executing commands for supers, in wakeups/combos/reversals/any other situation, in a way that this could cost them rounds or matches; being able to easily and reliably use a counter super (say, Youmu's counter super, Reimu's pillar, etc), or to make comebacks if you manage to dial-a (but not limited to) into a lvl 5 super (people may, of course, find better alternatives when possible, to 5 card supers) with improved graphics should feel rewarding.
- meter usage: it's bad in both games to use all of your spirit meter, but in IaMP, it's worse (spirit meter refills slower and has to be refilled to 100%, you lose air block, can't use bullets/specials/supers, can't wrongblock and receive extra block damage, even from normals); not only you have to avoid self-draining, but you have to avoid being blockstringed if you have low spirit and your opponent doesn't, avoid air blockstrings and wrongblocking 22A/22Bs.
- spellcard declaration: beginners may find it difficult to find or create a chance to declare (or input 22D, maybe) or to judge when to declare (do it too early, and you don't get good enough sc time or super meter or HP recovery; do it too late and you risk being caught trying to declare and lose the round); the act of trying to create a chance to declare and deciding when you should declare was one part of the game's strategy; another one was how to act when one of the players have declared first (do you, as the opponent who hasn't declared yet, do the same? Or try to play defensively to time out the card? Or try to make your opponent defend himself to time out the card? Or do you try to bait his/her super? Or try to stall him/her a bit and then knockdown/bomb or create enough distance or bullets to allow you to declare too?)
- movement: namely, having to know when you should jump, when you should forward/backward dash to stop rising or falling, when to change direction (because beginners don't usually care about attack ranges or startup/recovery times), having 8-way movement helps not being caught in the air.
personally, I have a few personal frustration factors about Soku (don't remember if I mentioned them), not meant to be an objective complaint, but if it helps you understand my point of view:
- lack of melee moves to counter other character's melee moves (it feels to me that they're so unrewarding, punishable, that the game discourages me to use them, except my playstyle emphasize normals over combos); moves that were otherwise useful for initiating blockstrings or punishing escape attempts (for example, Yuyuko's jA, which became j6A, Marisa's jA which became j2A) now don't net me enough frame advantage; I feel less predictable in IaMP (due to having two possible aerial melee moves instead of one -- I don't use j2As in Soku, or j6As against grounded characters, as they represent a loss of momentum if used, which leaves the jA as the only remaining option, and thus more easily counterable/blockable/escapable because I'm left with only one useful range/startup/recovery)
- high jump cancels are faster in IaMP (useful for both alleviating recovery times from bullets/specials and for blockstrings, as an option for stopping someone trying to hj through your blockstring -- which isn't in any way a dominant option, since you risk losing momentum if the opponent doesn't hj)
- so are aerial backdashes (can't use them in Soku to make opponent's melee whiff)
- I can't use bullet cover to get to the opponent at all (compare Sakuya's 214b in both games, or Yuyuko's 236a/b/c with SWR/Soku's 214b/c), bullets are either too narrow or too fast.
- bombs in IaMP can be used more than 4 times, can be used offensively (during combos), can make unsafe moves safe, can be recharged (60 points or one knockdown, as long as you didn't use a bomb for said knockdown), can be comboed after an o-bomb (it also refills the meter). Can't help feeling that they would be a waste of space in a deck, even though I rarely spend all of my deck in matches (while many people I've played against do spend all of their cards)
- once again, I can't emphasize well enough how it feels crippling for me, to grow used to normals for self-defense and countering (think about KoF 98's Ralf or Ryo, for example, though I prefer their 2002 UM versions), and then having to think "I don't have a normal to stop that other normal, it seems I should defend" which makes me defend forever in Soku (or trying to escape, which very often fails because I don't know or have memorized blockstrings). Since I have a bad memory, I can't memorize the blockstrings of other characters or the ones I'm using, and thus can't perform blockstrings or know what are the openings in theirs (to me, they all feel eternally safe on block or feel like any attack can lead into a combo that maintains the momentum -- "I thought that it would be a good opportunity to escape, but then there was this groundbounce that I didn't knew this combo had and thus I took more damage than I thought I could take"; the rules for combos in Soku aren't quite easy to deduce instinctively --, while in IaMP it's easy to see what the purpose of the attacker was, and see how much frame disadvantage I have), and can't manipulate weather too.
- tl;dr: I can't have fun mostly due to the memorization needed.
- ps: I don't see how IaMP is called a momentum-driven game, and Soku a neutral-emphasizing game, since with the former I can feel if I can escape blockstrings or not, and with the latter.. :memo: (seriously, I don't know what most alt spellcards and skill cards do, even after seeing them for years; more importantly, it was never clear to me when it was safe to escape blockstrings or not, or how to use melees in neutral game in Soku/SWR.)
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Soku tries really hard to be neutral/zoning. It really does. It's not, but it tries really hard.
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If you haven't gotten the clue yet, Starxsword
Yes, I have gotten the clue way back then. If you would stop complaining, I would certainly stop replying. We do disagree.
I'm actually highly optimistic about HM in that regard. It's not like you can do worse than making one of the game's key mechanics into a near-roulette that breaks the game back and forth (Typhoon, Mountain Vapor and River Mist yay).
While I don't care much about the weather system, some people actually think this is a very good mechanic. And yeah, some of these effects can turn the whole fight around.
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If anyone still cares, ZUN says Tasofro plans to release the game at Comiket 83 (December 31st, 2012). Whether this is the trial version or the full game is unknown.
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If anyone still cares, ZUN says Tasofro plans to release the game at Comiket 83 (December 31st, 2012). Whether this is the trial version or the full game is unknown.
Unabara (lead developer of Tasofro) hints it's a demo. So chances are what they may be releasing at C83 will be a demo game.
More on it here for those that care to translate https://twitter.com/unabara/status/264636925703499777
Also, there's a trailer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JbFyYb6y9PU
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It's a demo. It says so at the end of the trailer.
Also damn that music is already sounding really good~
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Woo. Looks fun. Move variety has me a bit worried, but hey, first trailer.
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More on it here for those that care to translate https://twitter.com/unabara/status/264636925703499777
It will be a demo. 体験版 means demonstration version.
Oh, someone beat me to it. Oh well.
In any case, I'll be awaiting the actual win mechanic, because the bars next to the circle dial don't seem like conventional health bars to me, though it's obvious that there's a damage mechanics.
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All right, some things that I noticed in the trailer:
-DAT VIOLIN!
-All-aerial battle mechanics. To be honest, I'm not too sure how this'll work out, since I used to over-rely on dashing...
-The attacks as a whole seem a bit more plain, less extravagant, to go with the art style?
-Knock-down invisibility time still exists.
-Spell Cards seem to be activated by excessive combo's? I did notice Reimu's lower gauge (with the yin-yang orbs) was filled when she used it.
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It seems to me that characters aren't really flying, rather they are standing on a level and can "jump" or "dive" .
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-Knock-down invisibility time still exists.
You mean invincibility :V
-Spell Cards seem to be activated by excessive combo's? I did notice Reimu's lower gauge (with the yin-yang orbs) was filled when she used it.
Nothing happened to Reimu's lower gauge when she used it, the raising of the meter goes up with normal strings... In fact, the red portion of her upper bar actually went DOWN when she used it.
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aaah fuck this trailer there's too much shit to even speculate about.
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Touhou Psychic Force :V
Good guess to whoever guessed that (saw that somewhere) Edit: Mauve
Edit: Ok, this is definitely not another movement/bullet grazing game. You can all stop comparing it to iamp and swr now :V
Edit: <3 long hair reimuuuuuuu
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The air movement reminds me of the DBZ Budokai games, which I thought were pretty damn fun.
Soku tries really hard to be neutral/zoning. It really does. It's not, but it tries really hard.
No, no it doesn't. It doesn't try emphasize zoning, or rushdown, or abare, or oki, or anything. Anyone can tell that Soku was not created with a competitive mindset. Just look at the random spellcards meter and the lack of a functional mixup game and the brainless okizeme. It's like Super Smash Bros Brawl; sure you can make tournaments for it and stuff, but that doesn't change the fact that it's made to be a party game.
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The air movement reminds me of the DBZ Budokai games, which I thought were pretty damn fun.
I'm a touch worried about how it'll work out. I'm uncoordinated enough as it is - which has discouraged me from playing the other fighters a lot and also seems to relegate me to using more physical fighters like Meiling - and I dunno how much extra practice I'll need to be able to perform any basic combo if I need to worry about horizontal AND vertical movement. The game seems a bit slower, which may compensate a bit in a different way.
Also damn that music is already sounding really good~
The music in the fighters tends to be a bit refreshing. Even though ZUN always has great scores, a good change of pace helps keep things from getting a bit stale.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JbFyYb6y9PU
Looks pretty damn good!
Also, that violin. THAT SEXY VIOLIN.
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Not bad, even though I'm already missing the characters from previous games.
Seeing how everyone will get new movesets they are highly unlikely to be compatible as imports (and because graphics are different... and the card system seems to be missing...)
Marisa touched the ground twice :V
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Oh man, after watching the trailer I am now 108% more hype. 8D This looks like an awesome idea for a fighting game, and I can only imagine the possibilities in story mode.
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Wow...that looks nice. I wonder if the music used is going to be the opening theme.
I'm guess they don't want us to see a teaser of any new characters or locations until the demo's release at Comiket.
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Hmm, so it IS an all-air game. Kind of like Suguri, I guess?
What's interesting about that is since combos rely on bounces/wallslams that means pretty much all combos will be situational depending on where and how high you are. I like that, nobody likes to see the same bnbs over and over.
However, like Amra I'm concerned that the characters won't have very large movelists at all. Seems kind of confirmed it'll still only have one melee button.
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This is amazing. It's like a 2D version of Touhou Sky Fight. xD
Though the only thing that disappointing me is the fact that there don't seem to be spellcards like in the past two fighters. But then again, this is still in progress so who knows?
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Okay so here's what I see from the trailer
- Bottom gauges are how much magic they can use, like the other fighters. No surprise.
- Top bars are what really interest me. Seems to merge both meter AND health. White bars are your health, while the red is your super meter. What I can speculate is that the less health you have, the more likely you'll have the super meter at the ready (at least more than half your health). That or, worst case scenario, the less health you have, the less likely you'd get super meter (which would really be bad for the losing player =/)
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SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbFyYb6y9PU)
click the text if it's not obvious
I jizzed when I saw this. Aerial combat, pretty graphics, awesome background, awesome everything. I love you Japan.
e: Ffffffuuuuu- the video was already posted here :qq:
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opinions:
- needs more speed (for combos and movement; I think that a temporary speed boost or thrust -- the equivalents of forward dash and forward hop -- would be nice and not gamebreaking)
- needs more melee range (it seems like everyone's a pixie, that feeling when you try to use normal moves in SF games and then try them in the MvsC series)
- needs more pattern dodging (needs more full shmupping -- note that, since there seems to be no graze, bullet startups could be increased, and there could be an instant block mechanic or something to negate or reduce the block damage)
- needs more interesting mechanics (can't say that without thinking of Arcana Heart's arcanas or BlazBlue's drives)
- needs a grappler character
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The concept of mid-flight daze seems weird.
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No, no it doesn't. It doesn't try emphasize zoning, or rushdown, or abare, or oki, or anything. Anyone can tell that Soku was not created with a competitive mindset. Just look at the random spellcards meter and the lack of a functional mixup game and the brainless okizeme. It's like Super Smash Bros Brawl; sure you can make tournaments for it and stuff, but that doesn't change the fact that it's made to be a party game.
That doesn't change the fact that it was designed with about half a dozen escape mechanisms to supposedly ensure you were never stuck in melee range pressure for very long. Whether or not a game was designed for competitive play or not has no bearing on what kind of playstyle it has; it just so happens that the intended playstyle for Soku is completely ignored at high level play. Melty Blood wasn't intended for tournaments either, but it got played enough that stuff like VAkiha's passive proximity hp drain got removed, and look what that's done to boost the popularity of Melty Blood and Tsukihime
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Looks beautiful and the music sounds amazing. The gameplay is certainly different, but I think it's too early to say it's bad or great. I never was really good at stringing together combos is SWR/UNL, so I'm hoping spellcards aren't dependent on that... If they are, looks like I'll have to actually *gasp* get good at the game! Though I don't exactly feel you have to be good at a game to enjoy it, however, if the use of spellcards require it, that could be interesting~ HYPE x9001
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I have a hard time seeing a fighter take place only in the air, but it kinda makes sense considering who's fighting. Tasofro never made anything below par so I'm definitely looking forward to it! :D
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- needs more speed (for combos and movement; I think that a temporary speed boost or thrust -- the equivalents of forward dash and forward hop -- would be nice and not gamebreaking)
Not sure if you saw it, but there is a dash.
The bars are very weird. I can't say I can tell the victory conditions by just watching this. There are too many meters to worry about. The vote meter on the character's icon. The 3 bars on the top and the bar on the bottom. The bar on the bottom is the easiest to tell, as that looks like a spirit meter.
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I have a hard time seeing a fighter take place only in the air, but it kinda makes sense considering who's fighting. Tasofro never made anything below par so I'm definitely looking forward to it! :D
Why would it be hard?
Also I still don't think this is really taking place in the air from a mechanical stand point.
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Why would it be hard?
Also I still don't think this is really taking place in the air from a mechanical stand point.
I agree that there seem to be two three levels that they switch between. That's for the best though, as lining up with your enemy just to hit them at short range would be annoying, especially if their reach is much wider than yours. Maybe it's also possible to land, though I suspect not.
My impression from the looks of it is that they're trying to make it even more projectile oriented. The melee attacks didn't seem to have much reach either. It also seemed like Reimu was much more mobile than Marisa, though that may not mean much. Something that worries me is having an advantage at lower/higher elevations, so both players spend the whole game at the top or bottom.
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I agree that there seem to be two three levels that they switch between. That's for the best though, as lining up with your enemy just to hit them at short range would be annoying, especially if their reach is much wider than yours. Maybe it's also possible to land, though I suspect not.
My impression from the looks of it is that they're trying to make it even more projectile oriented. The melee attacks didn't seem to have much reach either. It also seemed like Reimu was much more mobile than Marisa, though that may not mean much. Something that worries me is having an advantage at lower/higher elevations, so both players spend the whole game at the top or bottom.
A friend of mine also thought there were two or three levels but I only see one. There are times when they stay at a lower or higher elevation but only when delivering or being hit by attacks, otherwise they're pulled back to the center.
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A friend of mine also thought there were two or three levels but I only see one. There are times when they stay at a lower or higher elevation but only when delivering or being hit by attacks, otherwise they're pulled back to the center.
You know, I think you're right actually. I thought what Reimu was doing at some points (like the very start of the video) seemed like switching levels, but she was really just jumping and diving. Yeah, seems like it's only one level.
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Though while it was amazing and all, am I the only one who found some of their movements jittery? It's most likely a minor thing that'll be smoothed out later on...
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My impression from the looks of it is that they're trying to make it even more projectile oriented. The melee attacks didn't seem to have much reach either. It also seemed like Reimu was much more mobile than Marisa, though that may not mean much. Something that worries me is having an advantage at lower/higher elevations, so both players spend the whole game at the top or bottom.
The problem with that is we might see a ridiculous amount amount of spam like what tended to happen in UNL/SWR. IF something can be exploited, people will, and that can get very problematic very fast. And I can see the tiers, but the only thing that worries me is that we might get a graze like in UNL/SWR, just on steroids.
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Holy shit Touhou Psychic Force get hype
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New sprites, completely new system, a fucking timer! Wow, I'm so looking forward to this.
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How were the demos for the previous fighting games like? I mean what contents did they have?
Thanks in advance!
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From what I remember of SWR's demo, it had a small, self-contained prologue to the main story mode of that game that you can't see anywhere else. You just used Reimu and fought three battles.
The playable characters were Reimu, Marisa, Alice and Aya, so I'm expecting two new characters to be revealed by December.
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IaMP and SWR each gets 3 demos: "performance test version", Comiket demo, web downloadable demo. Performance test versions tend to have some rudimentary functions; the first Comiket demo has a few characters; the web downloadable demo has more story. I think IaMP web demo has Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya and Youmu?
EDIT: Wrong and wrong. See posts below.
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I think IaMP web demo has Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya and Youmu?
Reimu, Marisa, Alice and Youmu*
There might be only 4 characters on HM's demo as well, or even fewer... considering the sprites are HI-RES and thus, might take more time to finish.
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I think what interests me a lot about this is that now you could have groundslam combos that pretty much work just like wall combos.
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IaMP and SWR each gets 3 demos: "performance test version", Comiket demo, web downloadable demo.
Actually it seems they only have 2 demos each.
IaMP's Reitaisai 1 demo (April, 2004) is the "performance test", and only has Reimu and Marisa.
IaMP's "Trial Plus" demo was released on C66 (August, 2004). It might be the same thing as the web demo, or not substantially different from that.
IaMP was released on C67 (December, 2004).
SWR's C72 demo (August, 2007) has the same characters as the web demo: Reimu, Marisa, Alice, Aya. Apparently this demo caused some fan outrage.
SWR's web demo was released on April, 2008, just before Reitaisai 5.
SWR was released on Reitaisai 5 (May, 2008).
I suppose Alice being a unique character, is especially suited for demo.
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By the way, Alice in th08 is absolute crap. (personal opinion)
Nah it's really more of a fact, she has the worst range in the entire series (Needle Reimus are significantly wider), her DAMAGE isn't even all that good despite this, and her bomb is super short and does next to zero damage. Isn't it sad, Alice? The two things going for her is that she can hit both Mokou and her wings at once for good damage, and that her laser lingers for a second after changing characters, allowing Malice Cannon shenanigans.
BUT THIS IS NOT A TH8 THREAD SO
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the 3 special things in the bottom corners for each character. Reimu's Orbs and Marisa's stars. They light up or go dim sometimes.
As for IaMP discussion, it's fabulously balanced (Apart from really bad Meiling, everyone is almost the same on the tier list that was made for it- there's like 2 characters that are sliiiiiightly higher, but it's barely anything!) and certainly far more technical and such. The downside is that it's not good for casual play, like... at all. Matches are kind of eh and drag on if you don't know what you're doing, and it's not easy to learn, especially for people new to fighting games in general. Even if you know one character pretty well, the others are still a mystery, unlike 12.3 where you can play anyone roughly the same and it works out okayish.
They're kind of like two ends of a spectrum- IaMP is a great game for higher level play, but awful for entry-level people/casuals/etc, and 12.3 is the opposite, as even if you play high-level it's easy to tell it's not designed for it, and deck/weather randomness can just be a wrench- not to mention the silliness like average-grade players being able to take out pros being an example of how the mechanics just don't lend themselves to tournament-grade play well.
...uh. In any case. Excited about this game! :V
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SWR's C72 demo (August, 2007) has the same characters as the web demo: Reimu, Marisa, Alice, Aya. Apparently this demo caused some fan outrage.
What happened?
Thanks in advance!
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No idea. Probably due to the game being both different and unpolished, you know, the usual SWR criticism.
I'm also told that the reaction towards the C72 demo caused Tasofro to delay and/or make important changes to the game, but can't find any evidence for that.
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I wish they made the game with a card system like IaMP's and SWR's combined. You would press a key to activate the card and for some time you would have a chance to activate the card with a certain combo. It would make the game slighlty more challenging and different but system cards and skill cards you would have to press only once to use them.
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The main problem with the declaration system is that, well, you have to declare them. Which means your opponent knows exactly what you're trying to do and can just play defensive until the timer runs out. From what I've seen of IaMP tournaments, spellcard declarations were only used for the healing they provided, and no one ever actually used the supers. Which, speaking as an audience member, is just sad. In SWR, where they can be used at any moment, there's less incentive to hang back and do nothing, which naturally creates more openings to actually use them.
Or I guess you could make them ridiculously overpowered such that it's worth doing them even if they're blocked, but that has its own problems.
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The main problem with the declaration system is that, well, you have to declare them. Which means your opponent knows exactly what you're trying to do and can just play defensive until the timer runs out. From what I've seen of IaMP tournaments, spellcard declarations were only used for the healing they provided, and no one ever actually used the supers. Which, speaking as an audience member, is just sad. In SWR, where they can be used at any moment, there's less incentive to hang back and do nothing, which naturally creates more openings to actually use them.
Or I guess you could make them ridiculously overpowered such that it's worth doing them even if they're blocked, but that has its own problems.
Or just bring back the SWR spell system and make special attacks hard to use :V
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Or just bring back the SWR spell system and make special attacks hard to use :V
I think you'd piss off a lot of people by suggesting that they intentionally make the game harder to play.
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I think you'd piss off a lot of people by suggesting that they intentionally make the game harder to play.
Well, harder then, but not too hard.
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The main problem with the declaration system is that, well, you have to declare them. Which means your opponent knows exactly what you're trying to do and can just play defensive until the timer runs out. From what I've seen of IaMP tournaments, spellcard declarations were only used for the healing they provided, and no one ever actually used the supers. Which, speaking as an audience member, is just sad. In SWR, where they can be used at any moment, there's less incentive to hang back and do nothing, which naturally creates more openings to actually use them.
During the last few seconds of the video, I believe I saw a spellcard being used with great panache. The fact that they don't seem to be declared is something I find refreshing, to be honest. People like surprises!
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You saying that just reminded me of Heat and Blood Heat. No one ever uses the supers, we just heal.
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I don't get this trend of people claiming authority on games they don't play :]
IaMP supers are used extensively, just about every character changes their game when they declare.
During the last few seconds of the video, I believe I saw a spellcard being used with great panache.
Check out the red lifebar also, it is decreasing with time in some parts, but not others. This might be a declare after all.
Also, maybe something will happen if life is reduced to the red level? Red life tends to be where spellcards are activated in regular touhou games.
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IaMP supers are used extensively, just about every character changes their game when they declare.
Check out the red lifebar also, it is decreasing with time in some parts, but not others. This might be a declare after all.
Also, maybe something will happen if life is reduced to the red level? Red life tends to be where spellcards are activated in regular touhou games.
If you watch the trailer, when Reimu uses her spellcard, she is nowhere near the red portion of her health, so its not a declaration. Maybe once you reach the red, you get access to beefed up cards, but that may be a bit problematic because the bigger beating you are dishing out, the bigger your red portion is. You're right, the red portion does mean something, but I don't think its as big as new/better spellcards because that would make the winning player unbeatable.
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I don't get this trend of people claiming authority on games they don't play :]
IaMP supers are used extensively, just about every character changes their game when they declare.
I'm not an authority, just talking about games I've seen. I used to search youtube or niceo for tournament videos when I was bored. Then again, this was years ago so maybe the meta changed since then?
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If you watch the trailer, when Reimu uses her spellcard, she is nowhere near the red portion of her health, so its not a declaration
Not a traditional life gaining one (or Touhou shmup one), I just felt that since the red bar was decreasing, it seemed like IaMP's countdown timer.
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I would also love to see it if a super is declared about 1/2 a second after the super actually goes off. In too many situations does declaring the super in and of itself allow the opposing player to respond correctly. For example, you can never land Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu in a non-combo, because when you declare the super, the screen freezes for half a second and anyone who knows how to play will just jump over it.
During the last few seconds of the video, I believe I saw a spellcard being used with great panache. The fact that they don't seem to be declared is something I find refreshing, to be honest. People like surprises!
Yeah, spell cards don't seem to get declared. It would be great if that were the case. I never liked the way Immaterial and Missing Power declares spell cards. It took me a while to get used to it and I still find it awkward. I mainly declare just to heal and maybe throw a random super.
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This blog-post seems to throw some more light on the game. Anyone wanna translate it?
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62 (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62)
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This blog-post seems to throw some more light on the game. Anyone wanna translate it?
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62 (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62)
Not gonna translate the whole thing, but the basic gist of it is that there are no ground mechanics at all, but the flight system isn't unrestricted either. It's not like Psychic Force where you can fly around freely. Floating seems more fitting for a Touhou game. Also, you should try it out yourself at Winter Comiket before judging it.
Nothing really surprising.
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For example, you can never land Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu in a non-combo
you can use it for punishes (forgot if it -- and which version -- is also unjump-able if done right in front of your opponent; SFA2 at least froze your opponent whenever they weren't blocking before super flashes) and kara-demons
I never liked the way Immaterial and Missing Power declares spell cards. It took me a while to get used to it and I still find it awkward. I mainly declare just to heal and maybe throw a random super.
the declaration mechanic in IaMP makes both players work for their declaration chance (one poster has commented on how it makes the opponent "know exactly what you're going to do", but if you manage to give yourself enough options -- to declare and to bait punishment attempts --, and also conserve at least one bomb -- the threat of using it vs. actually using it, as another option for your opponent to consider --, you shouldn't be caught as much, if you get the hang of your opponent's possibilities). Personally I try to gauge the average amount of damage my opponent can do in one combo and try to knock the opponent down or get an aerial hit then declaring. (most of the times if the opponent isn't far away for the fast far bullets, they can't tech and land a hit on you in time).
Supers have a lot of uses, that your opponent has to consider (as additional options); reversal supers (broom, spark, throw of atlas), melee supers that can hit you if you're airborne and spirit-drained (blazing star, blue sword), supers used for spirit-draining (final spark, royal-flare, gungnir, yin-yang orb, Suika's string, Meiling's orb) and more.
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Yeah uhh Akuma's Raging Demon is a lot of cases are instant grabs if you're close (his super is at least in SFIV, not his Ultra, but really good for punishes and comboing after focus attacks)
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This blog-post seems to throw some more light on the game. Anyone wanna translate it?
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62 (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62)
Compared to Psychic Force which has free air movement, this is closer to Astra Super Stars (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/sunsoftfighters/sunsoftfighters3.htm) in which moving upward and downward function like jumping;
This was actually their very first idea for a Touhou fighting game.
You can find Astra tournament videos on Youtube.
Astra arcade version runs on ST-V which is exactly the same as Saturn, and also has a Saturn console version.
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I'm hoping Miko and Byakuren is in this game, I am looking forward to this new Touhou fighter game.
I wonder who might be behind this incident? It will most likely be someone new (probably at least two people or even one person). xD Overall I'm getting really hyped.
I wonder if Kasen will be in the game?
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I wonder if Kasen will be in the game?
I doubt she would be there, although I would LOVE to see her in a game, ZUN usually tends to keep fan created characters out of the games. The only exception to that being GFW.
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I doubt she would be there, although I would LOVE to see her in a game, ZUN usually tends to keep fan created characters out of the games. The only exception to that being GFW.
Eh? Kasen is a ZUN creation, as were the Three Fairies. I'm not sure what you mean by "fan created" here.
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I wonder if Kasen will be in the game?
I hope so P:
My want character cast for Touhou13.5:
Koishi
Nue
Kogasa(Gogo Parasol Smack)
Yuuka
Kasen
Yuugi
Eirin
Ichirin
Mamizou
Momiji
Characters from previous fighter games.
Well, pretty much we can guess Byakuren, Miko, Reimu, and Marisa will be in the game....
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Eh? Kasen is a ZUN creation, as were the Three Fairies. I'm not sure what you mean by "fan created" here.
Sorry that was my bad, I meant those found in literature. :derp: But now that you mention it, it doesn't seem that far fetched because ZUN made reference to Kasen in the game before.
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Sorry that was my bad, I meant those found in literature. :derp: But now that you mention it, it doesn't seem that far fetched because ZUN made reference to Kasen in the game before.
Well, supposedly she was considered as a possibility for the Extra boss in TD, but rejected in favor of Mamizou. Unlike the 3 Fairies or the Watatsukis, she's neither too strong nor too weak to appear in a game. On the other hand, she still has a lot of secrets that haven't yet been revealed in her manga (no matter how obvious they may be), so I think that would work against her being included.
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It's very not certain if he actually has WAHH plotted out for a finite number of issues like SSIB or is winging it, the big reveal aside, and would work with Tasofro making a story that takes future development into account, but by the time the game comes out WAHH could potentially be done or close enough to it that Kasen would have a chance.
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You know what would really interest me...
If it turns out "big reveal" doesn't happen in WaHH at all.... but in Hopeless Masqurade! That would be a very interesting twist! (Kinda like how Fairy Wars and Oriental Sacred Palace are connected)
Also yes, Kasen is a ZUN creation. She just appeared in a manga only as of this point.
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Hmm it would not surprise me if the last boss had something to do with Christianity, seeing as gensokyo timeline is set around mid to late 1800's. It would fit the religious struggle during that time period
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Hmm it would not surprise me if the last boss had something to do with Christianity, seeing as gensokyo timeline is set around mid to late 1800's. It would fit the religious struggle during that time period
The Touhou series takes place in the present day, as can be seen from the wiki's timeline (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline). (Interesting fact: all three of the fighters so far have taken place in summer. I wonder if this game will continue that trend.) I'd say that if Christianity is going to appear in the series it shouldn't be in this game, it feels like this should be more of a consolidation of the existing factions.
On gameplay, I have no comment, not being very good at the fighters at all.
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I pray to Lord God Almighty that there will be no Christianity in this game.
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Sorry that was my bad, I meant those found in literature. :derp: But now that you mention it, it doesn't seem that far fetched because ZUN made reference to Kasen in the game before.
Aya is actually the first literature character to appear in the games. Yes, she made her debut in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red.
I pray to Lord God Almighty that there will be no Christianity in this game.
Me too. While I'm not the most devout and religious Christian, I still get offended if anything related to Christianity get portrayed and used in strange ways. Knowing the series, Christianity's portrayal will more than likely to be altered somewhat.
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With ZUN's inclination toward Japanese and Asian settings, the exception being EoSD and PC-98, of course, the version of Christianity he'd be more likely to use is skewed as it is. Importantly, it need not necessarily be focused on "mainstream" Western Christianity, either regarding Jesus, important biblical figures, or even the belief system itself (except in contrast to the Japanese belief).
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Hmm it would not surprise me if the last boss had something to do with Christianity, seeing as gensokyo timeline is set around mid to late 1800's. It would fit the religious struggle during that time period
We've already our Youkai Jesus :D
ZUN usually focuses in asiatic religions so..... I think that isn't very probable but maybe ZUN can surprise us!!! (Or maybe he can put some Christianism references like Byukaren' backstory)
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This blog-post seems to throw some more light on the game. Anyone wanna translate it?
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62 (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=62)
今回は地に足をつけて戦う要素は無く
全てが上空を基準にするアクションスタイルです
ただ自由に上下移動できる訳ではなく制約が色々あるので
サイキックみたいなフリー移動のゲームよりは
上下にジャンプできるアストラタイプを想像して貰う方がベターですね。
This time, there's no combat that takes place on ground.
All the action takes place in the air, but there are various restrictions as to how high or how low you could go.
It looks very similar to the free movement in Psychic Force, but a better comparison would be the high-low jump mechanics of Astra Super Stars
^-- pretty much the only important thing worth translating, basically already been mentioned earlier.
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Me too. While I'm not the most devout and religious Christian, I still get offended if anything related to Christianity get portrayed and used in strange ways. Knowing the series, Christianity's portrayal is more than likely to be altered somewhat.
I'm sorry, I was being a smart-ass (invoking "Lord God Almighty" in the hopes that Christianity wouldn't appear in the game) but I really, really hope it doesn't.
The Touhou series takes place in the present day, as can be seen from the wiki's timeline (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline).
It's true Gensokyo takes place in modern times, but it's a world that's a bit of an anachronism - part ancient, part 19th century, and part modern. So there's no telling what form Christianity would take here. Might be interesting to see a Portuguese missionary youkai ... but fans Japanese and western alike would likely rage. Plus it seems very highly unlikely.
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oh my gosh i'm working on this game and i didn't even know it
[18:18] <mauve> this isn't hte right channel or anything
[18:18] <mauve> http://momijitocirno.sakura.ne.jp/remilia/uploader2/src/remy20737.jpg but is it just me or does the face art look really maullar-ish
[18:19] <@sibladeko> actualllllllllly
[18:20] <@sibladeko> hm idunno
[18:20] <FenixStryk> it's too blurry for me to decide
[18:22] <mauve> yeah i dunno it was just a thought
[18:33] <K> maullar secret tasofro member
[18:40] <MaullarMaullar> inb4 every character has a bondaged sprite
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Mima
/prepares the hateshield
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Mima
/prepares the hateshield
Well I guess she won't need legs for this game.
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Well I guess she won't need legs for this game.
Legs are OP nerf plz
All we know that the aerial combat system its just for including Mima ingame
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(http://i.imgur.com/6XOlk.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/6XOlk.jpg)
Tengumaki why. My dreams...
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(http://i.imgur.com/6XOlk.jpg)
don't make me punch you...
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Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.
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Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.
That's going to annoy the people who wants her back morei f you
I think that's going to annoy the people who wants her back more.
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Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.
(http://i.imgur.com/gaORy.jpg)
aheartfeltreunion.jpg
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don't make me punch you...
I can punch him in your place, if that's the case.
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Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.
I wouldn't mind. It's more that I want a couple of extra nods to PC-98 canon. I would be equally as happy with Shinki or another prolific PC-98 character returning.
Before the thread turns into a pro/anti Mima's return argument again I have to say that I absolutely love the art style in the game.
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(http://i.imgur.com/6XOlk.jpg)
Liked the picture btw but the text is evil :(
At least we can have some Mima in doujins
(http://i.imgur.com/gaORy.jpg)
aheartfeltreunion.jpg
ZUN didn't troll us!!!! Mima was in TD after all hahahahhahahhaha ;)
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Y'know, I kind of want Mima to come back to annoy the people who are annoyed at the people who say that she'll come back.
For maximum annoyance factor, she should appear as a dialogueless midboss with no explanation as to why she's there.
Yes. This would troll both sides equally. Especially if, as Donut's shot suggests, it's disputable whether or not it's even her.
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Talking about PC-98 characters, I would like to see Sariel as she's an Angel.
ZUN could also troll us and put the unnamed christian girl from Dolls in Pseudo Paradise's cover. :3
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Man, I knew I should have posted my "TEN DESIRES APPEARANCES: ZERO" picture right after I saw that macro.
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ZUN didn't troll us!!!! Mima was in TD after all hahahahhahahhaha ;)
-groan-
I know you meant that as a joke but that "ZUN is trolling" gag really annoys me....
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-groan-
I know you meant that as a joke but that "ZUN is trolling" gag really annoys me....
I really don't get why people think he would be above it, is the thing.
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I really don't get why people think he would be above it, is the thing.
No. The question should be why people think he would go as low as to constantly troll the fans of his work.
If you assume trolling as expected behavior in the first place, you might want to rethink your basics.
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No. The question should be why people think he would go as low as to constantly troll the fans of his work.
If you assume trolling as expected behavior in the first place, you might want to rethink your basics.
I never said he was CONSTANTLY trolling.
It's more a matter of "Why would he say something and then not expect people to make certain assumptions about what he said?"
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I never said he was CONSTANTLY trolling.
It's more a matter of "Why would he say something and then not expect people to make certain assumptions about what he said?"
Are we really going to do this again, four pages after we ended it?
Fine. This is not the same thing as trolling. Trolling implies intent; that he has deliberately set out to make fans think one thing when something else is the case, in order to purposefully upset us for his own sadistic glee.
This is totally different than fans drawing their own far-fetched conclusions and projecting their own hopes and desires onto the tiniest details, and is hardly ZUN's fault.
We had this derail four pages back, and it'd be oh so super swell if we didn't have to go through this again.
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Are we really going to do this again, four pages after we ended it?
Fine. This is not the same thing as trolling. Trolling implies intent; that he has deliberately set out to make fans think one thing when something else is the case, in order to purposefully upset us for his own sadistic glee.
This is totally different than fans drawing their own far-fetched conclusions and projecting their own hopes and desires onto the tiniest details, and is hardly ZUN's fault.
We had this derail four pages back, and it'd be oh so super swell if we didn't have to go through this again.
Alright, fine, fine. I guess I can't tell what qualifies as far-fetched, then.
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I guess you can't. And anyway is besides the point that trolling must include intent.
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Those Mima jokes never seem to get old. How did it even start?
The story is so vague, anyone can just appear and it won't be so out-of-place.
th075 had 21 characters, th09 had 31 characters(including Aya), th105 had 42 characters.
(Those Prismriver Sisters somehow feel like those filler sentences in an essay)
And now th135 has about 70 characters to choose from.
(Numbers might be wrong)
Kawashiro Nitori might have a chance to appear, since she already appeared in two games and a lot of second derivative games.
Plus I think I read somewhere that Nitori was planned for th123 but was scrapped because of time restraints.
If she does appear, I just might say 'ええじゃないか?'
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Those Mima jokes never seem to get old. How did it even start?
Kawashiro Nitori might have a chance to appear, since she already appeared in two games and a lot of second derivative games.
Plus I think I read somewhere that Nitori was planned for th123 but was scrapped because of time restraints.
If she does appear, I just might say 'ええじゃないか?'
I hate all the random ''OMAIGAWD I WANT MIMA TO COME BACK'' or ''She's totally going to appear for x reasons'' when they hardly make sense. That's my opinion. Now for some facts, if Mima was to come back, it would be pretty weird; I'm not talking about continuity (haha, in Touhou?), I'm talking about how she'll hardly have a distinct personality. When Marisa turned into Windows Marisa, she took a few Mima-ish things with her. If Mima was to come back, unless ZUN changes her (which defeats the purpose of having Mima, yes?), she'll feel like a Marisa knock-off.
Nitori wasn't mentionned for th123, Mokou and Kaguya were. And I think Wriggle was a very brief thought or something, but I'm really not sure.
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I'm not talking about continuity (haha, in Touhou?)
Err, every main game after Mountain of Faith is directly related, characters mention events that happened in the extra material, and the events of this new game are directly caused by the events of everything that happened before (all the incidents making the humans go "f*** the world"). That seems like continuity to me.
Nitori wasn't mentioned for th123, Mokou and Kaguya were. And I think Wriggle was a very brief thought or something, but I'm really not sure.
Touhou net says in Nitori's article that ZUN stated that she was intended for Soku but was scrapped due to time constraints, although they don't give the source for this.
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Err, every main game after Mountain of Faith is directly related, characters mention events that happened in the extra material, and the events of this new game are directly caused by the events of everything that happened before (all the incidents making the humans go "f*** the world"). That seems like continuity to me.
Touhou net says in Nitori's article that ZUN stated that she was intended for Soku but was scrapped due to time constraints, although they don't give the source for this.
I more or less meant this as a joke, as there are a few wonky things here and here. I have to say, you're right on that one though; From MoF up to TD (and now Hopeless Masquerade), everything is related, which is nice.
I think the biggest example of a lack of continuity is the world wipe ZUN did when he made EoSD. I don't mind, as I started playing Touhou from EoSD, being only aware of the PC-98 games later on, but it's pretty... extreme.
That... more or less sounds like a fishy rumor. Kinda like my Wriggle one.
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That... more or less sounds like a fishy rumor.
I see what you did there.
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I see what you did there.
...I swear, it was completely unintentional.
Anyway, so I don't stray too far from the topic, is anyone else disappointed by the whole ''floating instead of flying'' thing? I liked Hisoutensoku for the fast-paced movements and ability to quickly go from one place to another in a split-second, and this one just seems like a dash makes you cross a tenth of the stage.
Plus, the fact they naturally fall down requires to player tap the up button to make them stay in one spot, and it ends up making the characters look like they're having a massive seizure.
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Anyway, so I don't stray too far from the topic, is anyone else disappointed by the whole ''floating instead of flying'' thing? I liked Hisoutensoku for the fast-paced movements and ability to quickly go from one place to another in a split-second, and this one just seems like a dash makes you cross a tenth of the stage.
...I swear, it was completely unintentional.
The only thing worse than making a pun is making an unintentional pun. You, sir, should be ashamed :P
Plus, the fact they naturally fall down requires to player tap the up button to make them stay in one spot, and it ends up making the characters look like they're having a massive seizure.
Wait, is this how the gameplay really is? It didn't seem like it from the trailer. It DOES look a bit less fast-paced than Soku, but Marisa uses some dashes that covers half the screen once or twice, and they didn't seem like they were constantly falling either... were these mechanics stated by the creators somewhere?
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I'm still not sure how much I liked the flight system in Soku, though I don't hate it outright or anything. But I'm honestly concerned about this "100% aerial combat" approach. I suspect that it's an attempt to make the combat more like that in the main shooters, at least stylistically, so my opinion on this will end up being from the perspective of a shoot-em-up player. If what Ikari is saying is true about you naturally floating down, and you don't have absolute control over your character's movement like almost all shooting games do (not just Touhou here), then it isn't quite like the combat in the main shooters anymore, is it?
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The flying combat is like that in Astra Superstars. Rather than falling all the way to the ground, the characters gradually rubberband to mid-height. You could think about it as having several 'tiers' that you can go up or down to by pressing 'jump', and eventually automatically return to the center level. No real 'free flight'
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The flying combat is like that in Astra Superstars. Rather than falling all the way to the ground, the characters gradually rubberband to mid-height. You could think about it as having several 'tiers' that you can go up or down to by pressing 'jump', and eventually automatically return to the center level. No real 'free flight'
Oh my god, it's like a constant River Mist.
We're freaking doomed.
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It only pulls you down or up to a center horizontal line, rather than pushing or pulling you horizontally in respect to your opponent. It will likely keep people from easily flying away from battles, while providing more air space (below and above) and air time than typical jumps.
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It only pulls you down or up to a center horizontal line, rather than pushing or pulling you horizontally in respect to your opponent. It will likely keep people from easily flying away from battles, while providing more air space (below and above) and air time than typical jumps.
It just kinda feels like it'll be way harder to dodge. In Hisou, you could dash, fly, jump and run your way out of trouble, and the video shows little to no way of dodging without always having the opponent at one inch of your face. It kinda feels like we'll just end up hitting then blocking until one of us dies, like a pokemon battle.
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You seem to be drawing some strange conclusions. You can still jump and dash and all that crap, though you can also go down (so you have more options really.) To look at it from another perspective, just imagine that the characters happen to be standing on an invisible platform. The fact that they're "flying" really means nothing. It's just the presentation, and doesn't have much to do with the mechanics. I don't think you'll be losing much control as far as movement goes.
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You seem to be drawing some strange conclusions. You can still jump and dash and all that crap, though you can also go down (so you have more options really.) To look at it from another perspective, just imagine that the characters happen to be standing on an invisible platform. The fact that they're "flying" really means nothing. It's just the presentation, and doesn't have much to do with the mechanics. I don't think you'll be losing much control as far as movement goes.
There's not much of a jump, it's pretty much just dashing up. I know it's pretty similar to an invisible platform, but from what I've seen in the video, it's more slow-paced and mostly made of close range whacking, save for a few projectiles here and here.
Then again, it's just a demo video. I'll play the demo for sure, I'm just drawing speculations and mindless criticism that really won't matter in the end for now.
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Plus, the fact they naturally fall down requires to player tap the up button to make them stay in one spot, and it ends up making the characters look like they're having a massive seizure.
What makes you think you can tap the up button to stay in the air?
Personally, I'm excited for this system. It's a new idea to me, and I love that. You've always been able to jump over your enemies in fighters. Nothing is really changing here except now you can jump under your enemies too.
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What makes you think you can tap the up button to stay in the air?
1) Logic. If you always slowly fall down toward the middle, gently tapping / kinda going up once in a while will make you stay in place.
2) The seizure Reimu's sprite sometime has to go up / Stay in one spot.
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1) Logic. If you always slowly fall down toward the middle, gently tapping / kinda going up once in a while will make you stay in place.
2) The seizure Reimu's sprite sometime has to go up / Stay in one spot.
While it may be logical for something that flies to be able to pick the altitude it flies at I'm going to have to go against that idea. I didn't see any of these seizures you're talking about.
Something that I thought about but don't think is in the game is some conservation of momentum. For one sequence I thought I saw Reimu and Marisa being pushed apart in from an attack point, as if they were both feeling a force due to the attack (as they would).
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To be fair, Ikari did say he was "just drawing speculations and mindless criticism that really won't matter in the end for now". Happens every time a new game is on the way; there's always going to be a couple people who start hand-wringing that the game is going to be terrible and "we're freaking doomed". It's the magic of pre-game speculation.
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To be fair, Ikari did say he was "just drawing speculations and mindless criticism that really won't matter in the end for now". Happens every time a new game is on the way; there's always going to be a couple people who start hand-wringing that the game is going to be terrible and "we're freaking doomed". It's the magic of pre-game speculation.
...More or less that. I'm actually excited about the game, you can bet your money on the fact I'm sure as hell gonna get it. I'll play it, and guess what? I'll love it.
I'm just whining about things I don't like because there's so many ''I can't wait for this game'' comments (I'm part of those!) that there's no point in adding more.
You guys are tired of my negativity? Fine, I'll go with what I like;
1) The sprites are gorgeous. They're really pretty.
2) The backgrounds? Just like the sprites, I love them.
3) The music is once again orgasmic.
4) I'm a lover of little details, and seeing Marisa use her broom to fly and each character having a unique special bar makes me smile.
5) The controls are going to be great. Obviously. I mean, it's Touhou.
6) It's Touhou
7) DJ Miko crew and Mama Byakuren family are my two favorite groups in all of the Touhou Universe. I'm ecstatic to see the character roster.
8.) Nice looking projectiles and effects, just like Hisoutensoku.
Seriously I could go on like this FOREVER.
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About Nitori, it was mentioned in a translation of a transcription of an radio interview of ZUN and is as reliable as the recorder's skills times the translator's accuracy.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Interview_on_Nae_Radio_(September_2009)
If you want to believe that this is a fake or some kind of error, I can't stop you.
I still don't understand why TasoFro put in stupid weathers like River Mist, Typhoon, and Mountain Vapor.
Do people hate weather because of these stupid weathers, or would they still hate it even if there weren't stupid weathers?
About any new game, 'You wouldn't know it's good medicine or not unless you drank it for yourself'.
But it will need some options that lets the game use less CPU or something.
So when would the full game be released? Somewhere around next winter?
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I hate all the random ''OMAIGAWD I WANT MIMA TO COME BACK'' or ''She's totally going to appear for x reasons'' when they hardly make sense. That's my opinion. Now for some facts, if Mima was to come back, it would be pretty weird; I'm not talking about continuity (haha, in Touhou?), I'm talking about how she'll hardly have a distinct personality. When Marisa turned into Windows Marisa, she took a few Mima-ish things with her. If Mima was to come back, unless ZUN changes her (which defeats the purpose of having Mima, yes?), she'll feel like a Marisa knock-off.
Nitori wasn't mentionned for th123, Mokou and Kaguya were. And I think Wriggle was a very brief thought or something, but I'm really not sure.
Marisa takes a few everything with her (xmas tree shots from SoEW's Reimu in EoSD, non-directional laser, master spark, skittles). Mima's determinatorness may have been assimilated by Marisa, but not her boastful and self-confident (Marisa at times acknowledges and exposes her limitations, for example before fighting the Prismriver sisters, by saying something like "a magician of my level could never open this gate", and by trying to convince Yorihime to play the spellcard game in SSiB), expert-looking personality, nor Mima's background history. Marisa doesn't even need to fill the role of her apprentice, nowadays.
In my opinion, no one else so far has come so close to the image of a western wizard or oriental magician as Mima did.
Anyway, so I don't stray too far from the topic, is anyone else disappointed by the whole ''floating instead of flying'' thing? I liked Arcana Heart for the fast-paced movements and ability to quickly go from one place to another in a split-second, and this one just seems like a dash makes you cross a tenth of the stage.
I'm disappointed by the system, so far (pacing, melee options, lack of interesting mechanics/customization/character gameplays).
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Gotta wait til the demo til I say anything more, but yeah a little worried so far.
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Like everyone else, I'm worried, but refuse to actually make a real judgment until I tried it. I'm not trying to call it the worse game ever, just badly presented so far. (Because I know the video is literally a crumb of the pie that game is)
About Nitori, it was mentioned in a translation of a transcription of an radio interview of ZUN and is as reliable as the recorder's skills times the translator's accuracy.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Interview_on_Nae_Radio_(September_2009)
If you want to believe that this is a fake or some kind of error, I can't stop you.
Oooh, that's where the Wriggle thing is from as well! And I'm not trying to deny the Nitori thing; That's a logical and probably real source. I mean, it's hard to believe a statement when it starts with ''I heard a rumor that'' and ends with ''not sure where I heard it though'', no? Besides, it's not like Nitori randomly popped out, she was a ''playable'' character in SA too.
...Come to think of it, they're all playable in Hisoutensoku save for her. Heh.
Marisa takes a few everything with her (xmas tree shots from SoEW's Reimu in EoSD, non-directional laser, master spark, skittles). Mima's determinatorness may have been assimilated by Marisa, but not her boastful and self-confident (Marisa at times acknowledges and exposes her limitations, for example before fighting the Prismriver sisters, by saying something like "a magician of my level could never open this gate", and by trying to convince Yorihime to play the spellcard game in SSiB), expert-looking personality, nor Mima's background history. Marisa doesn't even need to fill the role of her apprentice, nowadays.
In my opinion, no one else so far has come so close to the image of a western wizard or oriental magician as Mima did.
You make a compelling argument. Sorry for my reactions toward Mima, I've grown sick of all the times where some fans are randomly disappointed that Mima didn't appear or hoping she'll be playable. In my opinion, if Mima doesn't appear, it's perfectly normal, and if she does, it's cool! Unlike a handful of Mima lovers who act like her not appearing is ''trolling'' and that her appearance is only logical. I know it's not the case for many Mima fans, but it's kind of like the ''Sakuya is a lunarian!'' thing, it's seemingly everywhere.
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Talking about PC-98 characters, I would like to see Sariel as she's an Angel.
ZUN could also troll us and put the unnamed christian girl from Dolls in Pseudo Paradise's cover. :3
To be precise, she's a seraphim, as they have six wings, while angels don't have wings. Two-winged angels are made up by people, as nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that they have wings, only seraphims and cherubims.
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We had this derail four pages back, and it'd be oh so super swell if we didn't have to go through this again.
My bad. It's my fault. I just cringe whenever someone goes "ZUN IS TROLLING LOL". But in any case, I'll change the topic to something else.
I could actually see Nitori as a playable character considering her (ambiguous) relationship with Marisa. And with Marisa being in and not belonging to any religious faction, it might...make sense?
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Why all the Mima talk? After searching the thread I'm quite surprised nobody's mentioned 東方心綺楼: 神綺
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I guess UFO taught them that Shinki is not likely to appear, even if her name is in this game.
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Kilgamayan mentioned it in the first page. I deemed that it was unworthy to pursue such meaningless subjects.
And I'm sorry about the confusion about Nitori.
It's one of my bad habits to make words seem to carry hidden meanings, even if it actually doesn't.
Let's see.
th075 basically had everyone in th08, plus Patchouli and a new character.
th105 added Reisen, Aya, Komachi, and two new characters.
th123 added Sanae, Cirno, Utsuho, Suwako, and added back Meiling.
Based on this, one can half-expect Shou and Futo to appear.
It's really getting tough to guess, there are around 70 characters to choose from.
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Kilgamayan mentioned it in the first page. I deemed that it was unworthy to pursue such meaningless subjects.
The difference is that Kilga was just talking about Shinkirou = Shinki (which firstly, doesn't even necessarily have to have the same kanji as Shinki, but it does), whereas every main game so far and some others have one kanji in at least one character's name in the title of the game. If Shinki ends up in the game by some miracle then this would be massive foreshadowing.
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Like everyone else, I'm worried, but refuse to actually make a real judgment until I tried it.
Like some have expressed, I'm a bit concerned with the whole "100% aerial combat" approach the game has. Replacing jumping mechanics with free (semi-free?) movement makes it feel more like a beat 'em up (eg, Final Fight) than a fighting game to me. But ^^^ this always hold true: until a demo is released and we can see for ourselves how things handle, how good or how bad it will be or what the game will feel like is just speculation and nothing else.
Meh. The way I see it, it'd get redundant having roughly the same mechanics and characters every game. Something new could be good. I'm just hoping most of the usual things to expect from fighting game mechanics won't be dropped to focus on just outmaneuvering your opponent, or that the transition won't be too alienating. :)
(Also, Momiji as a character. Seriously, that poor pup needs her place in the sun at some point - after all, mad science has proven she's the superior choice for a fighting game character. Katsugeki Kidan-style. :) )
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@Ikari: I don't really care if your bashing the game or what but if you think there was an instance where any character was going through a "seizure" I'd like to see it.
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@Ikari: I don't really care if your bashing the game or what but if you think there was an instance where any character was going through a "seizure" I'd like to see it.
Let's just say I'm wrong already and get over that.
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Why all the Mima talk? After searching the thread I'm quite surprised nobody's mentioned 東方心綺楼: 神綺
In Japanese isn't 心 pronounced the same way as 神 as well?
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yes, that's why it's "touhou shinkirou" which i just finished mentioning, but that's not the point
東方紅魔郷 : 紅美鈴
東方妖々夢 : 魂魄妖夢 (and 西行寺幽々子 has a kanji repetition)
東方萃夢想 : 伊吹萃香
東方永夜抄 : 八意永琳 and 蓬莱山輝夜
東方花映塚 : 四季映姫 and 小野塚小町
東方文花帖 : 射命丸文
東方風神録 : 東風谷早苗 and 八坂神奈子
東方地霊殿 : 古明地 and 霊烏路空
東方星蓮船 : 寅丸星 and 聖白蓮
東方神霊廟 : 豊聡耳神子
This follows throughout PC98 as well, with the exception of HRtP, except 東方靈異伝 and 博麗靈夢 (old writing of Reimu) both use the old kanji 靈.
The main reason I wouldn't grab onto this is because neither SWR nor Soku followed this, and 13.5 isn't a main game either. But even Mystic Square (東方怪綺談) got its namesake kanji 綺 from Shinki.
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Obviously, it's about Mima's daughter :V
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Obviously, it's about Mima's daughter :V
I wonder, do vengeful spirits lay eggs or give birth?
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Also, Momiji as a character.
I totally support that. In fact, I was even wondering how her stage would be if she was really in the game. So, I'd like if it was the waterfall of nine-heavens. The scenario would be something like this (But far more beautiful):
(http://i.imgur.com/tFuwa.gif)
It's really easy to make Momiji a fighting character anyway, because of her sword. So, it's fitting for physical combat.
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Like some have expressed, I'm a bit concerned with the whole "100% aerial combat" approach the game has. Replacing jumping mechanics with free (semi-free?) movement makes it feel more like a beat 'em up (eg, Final Fight) than a fighting game to me.
If my idea is right then the jumping mechanic hasn't been replaced at all. It's just that now there's also a dive mechanic which works just like the jump mechanic except it goes down instead of up and while there is no ceiling there is a floor.
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I wonder, do vengeful spirits lay eggs or give birth?
They probably divide in two like bacteria and produce a couple of genetically identical vengeful spirits.
I want to see Yuuka in this game, although it certainly won't happen.
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I want to see Yuuka in this game, although it certainly won't happen.
I love Yuuka but I accepted the fact she's often missing in games.
I like to pretend she's just so OP she'd break the game.
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The main reason I wouldn't grab onto this is because neither SWR nor Soku followed this,
Unless I am overlooking something, in SWR it still follows since 東方緋想天:比那名居天子. What's intriguing is that the same pattern extends to all the print works as well. Thanks for pointing this out, you've convinced me to believe that Shinki will make appearance in the game. And of course I will welcome the decision to bring Shinki back with open arms.
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wow shit how did I miss that
PRETTY SURE SOKU HAS LIKE NO EXTRA CHARACTERS EXCEPT DAIDARABOCCHI AND NAMAZU THOUGH SO YEAH
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You can make the argument that Touhou Hisoutensoku is named after the the Hisoutensoku robot itself :derp: But yeah, Soku doesn't have any new characters so it's really a special case.
The name of the game and the name of a character in the game sharing a kanji is pretty interesting, although in this case I doubt it's actually referring to Shinki.
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As the other poster pointed out. Hisoutensoku has the robot Hisou Tensoku. Though, it depends if you call it I character, I would like to believe so, kind of like the Goliath doll.
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i'd also argue that hisou tensoku is named as such because of the name of the previous game, and not as a three-steps-ahead decision to name both games with it in mind
there being possible exceptions and whatnot still doesn't matter though; what matters is that there's a clear pattern zun follows that shinki (and currently no other existing characters as far as i can tell) matches with
I'm not really hoping for Shinki nor would I say this is an indicator that she's in whatsoever, and I'd advise that nobody puts all their chips in for it either. But the pattern is there, and if she does get in then woah it was foreshadowed. If she doesn't then whatever, but either way it's also somewhat likely that a character with 心綺楼 in their name will be included.
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Instead of saying that Shinki may be in this game because of the naming thing, it's more realistic to say that the new character's name will contain one of the characters in the Japanese title.
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New crack theory: the true route has Alice become the new Shinki and the warring religions have to work together to beat her.
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Further crack theory: Alice-Shinki goes on to make a NEW Makai which makes a NEW Alice which makes a NEW Shinki and---
<ERROR: STACK OVERFLOW>
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Nuts to this whole plot relevance and theories, just bring Shinki back at once. Geez... it shouldn't be THAT hard.
1) You make her sprite.
2) You code her.
3) You make her dialogues.
Ta-Da~!
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Shinki will be returning because she wants to gain more followers, so she's decided to focus on the people of Gensokyo! The first place she will be gathering faith is in the human village! A goddess needs her faith, of course! :getdown:
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It would be nice to have Mima back, or any PC98 character for that matter, but we all know ZUN has scrapped PC98 even if someone does appear, it would most likely be in a situation like Yuuka where she'll never appear again :| I have a secret fangirl inside me where I REALLY want Mima to return, but I can kinda understand why ZUN doesn't like PC98 characters in his Windows work and I dont want to annoy people, so I don't show it. Besides, I want to respect ZUN and calling him a troll is not nice when he doesn't do it.
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Nuts to this whole plot relevance and theories, just bring Shinki back at once. Geez... it shouldn't be THAT hard.
1) You make her sprite.
2) You code her.
3) You make her dialogues.
Ta-Da~!
1) you make the sprites for the attack animations (for which concept art is much likely needed) and special effects
2) you code the hitboxes for said attack animations, startup/active/recovery frames for them, states for the characters (airborne, knocked down, air teching, blocking high/low/airblocking, taking a hit, etc), how moves should behave ("this grab can catch teching enemies, but not enemies in hitstun, downed opponents, etc", "this attack is air unblockable", "this backdash has invulnerability in the first n frames", "this move has upper/lower/full body invincibility", "the air version of this move acts differently from its grounded version", "you can cancel this attack with a highjump/special/super when the move hits the opponent", etc), then you playtest to adjust characters' balance and check for bugs/glitches/infinite combos or otherwise broken stuff. (and also take care of code optimization; also, the character's gameplay must be thought and decided beforehand)
3) this may be the less difficult step :p (depending on how many routes/general win quotes/special condition win quotes you want to add. Story-wise, additional artwork may be needed to go along with said quotes)
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1) you make the sprites for the attack animations (for which concept art is much likely needed) and special effects
2) you code the hitboxes for said attack animations, startup/active/recovery frames for them, states for the characters (airborne, knocked down, air teching, blocking high/low/airblocking, taking a hit, etc), how moves should behave ("this grab can catch teching enemies, but not enemies in hitstun, downed opponents, etc", "this attack is air unblockable", "this backdash has invulnerability in the first n frames", "this move has upper/lower/full body invincibility", "the air version of this move acts differently from its grounded version", "you can cancel this attack with a highjump/special/super when the move hits the opponent", etc), then you playtest to adjust characters' balance and check for bugs/glitches/infinite combos or otherwise broken stuff. (and also take care of code optimization; also, the character's gameplay must be thought and decided beforehand)
3) this may be the less difficult step :p (depending on how many routes/general win quotes/special condition win quotes you want to add. Story-wise, additional artwork may be needed to go along with said quotes)
You realize that my intention was summarizing all of those steps, don't you...?
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You realize that my intention was summarizing all of those steps, don't you...?
(emphasis mine)
Geez... it shouldn't be THAT hard.
<snip>
Ta-Da~!
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tl;dr
It is hard. Don't make the process as shallow as that.
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tl;dr
It is hard. Don't make the process as shallow as that.
lolbutshinkiman
I, for one, am looking forward to this new game. I'm know nothing of fighting games, but I think that expanding the plot is very cool at the least. And it's not like Tasofro ever make a bad game, just very... broken? (Random weather and card placement in SWR and Hisou, hmm?)
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tl;dr
It is hard. Don't make the process as shallow as that.
Meh.
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Meh.
No matter how you look at it, it IS that hard.
Especially when the smoothest animations are done frame-by-frame. Meaning one must construct sprites for all frames. ggwp
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No matter how you look at it, it IS that hard.
Especially when the smoothest animations are done frame-by-frame. Meaning one must construct sprites for all frames. ggwp
Alright, alright. Ok.
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(Random weather and card placement in SWR and Hisou, hmm?)
Yeah, I never really liked that part of those games. Then again, IaMP wasn't much better with that. Hopefully they'll figure out a better balance with the spell cards.
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The difficulty of implementing a new character is irrelevant. What's worth debating is how well does Shinki fit in the religious battle theme.
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(Random weather and card placement in SWR and Hisou, hmm?)
Oh god, I pray they make whatever new system they introduce optional. At least in versus mode, if anything. Not being able to turn off the weather effects in SWR/Hisoutensoku was such a pain...
Being able to build your starting move-list instead of having to hope the move you want won't take too long to come out (and wasting a card to toggle it on) would be neat if they kept the same card-based system, too. But maybe that's just me. ^-^
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Yeah, it would be cool if we could start with different move sets. SWR/Soku allows for that, but you need to put them in your deck and randomly draw them.
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SWR/Soku allows for that, but you need to put them in your deck and randomly draw them.
Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. I often find myself learning how to use a character's default moves and completely neglecting the replacement moves because I'm much less likely to be able to depend on them. I suppose some may like it that way, but I often find myself wishing the game would just let me set up my default movelist instead of forcing me to rely on chance.
Still, this new one doesn't seem to have the same system, so it's probably moot one way or the other. :)
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The difficulty of implementing a new character is irrelevant. What's worth debating is how well does Shinki fit in the religious battle theme.
She's implied to be the Devil.
IT WORKS
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Looks like you Shinki fans may have been right about her appearing in Hopeless Masquerade. Check it out:
[nsfw]http://i.imgur.com/Yk2B2.jpg[/nsfw]
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God dammit Ammy
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Inb4Ayanotinanynewgames
Anyway, I don't see how Shinki would fit in at all, since she's never shown nor implied to have any interest in having followers. Plus, y'know, she's in Makai not Gensokyo.
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Looks like you Shinki fans may have been right about her appearing in Hopeless Masquerade. Check it out:
[nsfw]http://i.imgur.com/Yk2B2.jpg[/nsfw]
Dat confirmation ~<3
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Looks like you Shinki fans may have been right about her appearing in Hopeless Masquerade. Check it out:
[nsfw]http://i.imgur.com/Yk2B2.jpg[/nsfw]
Haven't you heard the news that Aya will be absent in Hopeless Masquerade? Zun has made the announcement yesterday that the reporter's role will be taken by Hatate instead because there're already too many games with Aya. :ohdear:
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Predicting the roster...
100%'s--
Reimu, Marisa, Sanae (too obvious she'll be in)
My >75%'s--
Youmu, Sakuya (At least one will be in)
My >50%'s--
Futo: Someone to represent the Taoists, and that faction is limited in number
Shou: Someone to represent Byakuren, and a 5th Stage boss
Rin: Canonically known to lurk the graveyard near the Myouren temple, represents the underground
Komachi: Especially if Rin, Seiga, and/or Kasen is in, can represent the Yama's interests
Seiga: A wild card, really. Represents her own interests.
My "might make it, but I'm not holding my breath"--
Cirno, Reisen, Yukari, Aya, Nitori, Mamizou
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Relevance to plot didn't really stop Soku from having the most random cast. They put in who they want to, but if they're too difficult to implement (hi Mokou/Kaguya), then you can't put them in. Sometimes you just can't mix mechanics with character faithfulness, it happens.
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What do you mean by "too difficult to implement"? Sanae-chan had propably the most diverse power set in the series (wind, falling stars, tidal waves, pentagrams, grid, shooting seeds and rice, flying snakes and exploding frogs), and they not only adapted almost all of it (dropping seeds and UFO bombs), but also added the wind mechanic, exploding packets and actual Kanako and Suwako assists with four moves each. The only one more thing I could ask for is if she could actually be higher tier this time, and I won't need anyone else.
Suwako's propably even more of an example. They got creative enough to adapt 2 bows, 2 claps, 1 bow as crushing stone hands, Snake Hears and Eats Frog as a giant stone snake eating you, Mishaguji as Shun Goku Satsu ripoff with giant snakes and managed to give her that totally insane fighting style with swimming under the ground and growing trees out of nowhere. Designing a convincing Mokou should require a fraction of that imagination, but I can understand them not wanting to, as they gave us another fire type (Okuu). The entire "too strong" argument is total bullshit though, you can't drop in Yukari and expect us to buy it.
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There's a difference between what it looks like and what it requires mechanically. 2bows is just two large hitboxes coming in from the sides, Snake Hears is one rising from the ground, Mishaguji is an expanding unblockable hitbox that expands from the ground. All pretty easy in terms of pure mechanics, though visually impressive yes. However, they didn't put in Mokou or Kaguya because of balance reasons because they wouldn't be Kaguya or Mokou without their resurrection. It's not a question of direct power levels, it's a question of implementing those powers mechanically and remaining faithful to the characters, which they did well with all the other characters but couldn't for the life of themselves do with our two immortals. Don't blame 'em. Some things are just easier to put into fighting games. I wouldn't for the life of me know how to implement Kisume or Parsee.
I never used the 'too strong' argument.
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How is resurrection relevant? Aren't spell card battles specifically designed to be non-lethal in canon anyway? If they wanted to, they could have implemented something like a spell card that regains some of the HP upon knockout for that last chance to win (something Kaguya already does in IN).
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It's possible that the real reason they weren't included was the opposite of the intuitive reason; they could have been too simplistic of characters, which would make it difficult to design full movesets and spell cards. I myself doubt this, but I also really doubt "too powerful" and "too complicated" as possible reasons.
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Resurrection is relevant because it's intrinsic to the characters at hand, as much as fantasy seal or master spark or gap manipulation is to their respective characters. Their moveset needs to feel like Mokou and Kaguya, and be a full mechanic much like Sanae's wind or Suwako's weird movement; we can't just put it in as a spellcard because Soku's mechanics mean that it's possible for them to not have it, and it just feels sloppy when compared to characters that have a full-representation, not just a token spellcard. Not to mention that such an easy 'I don't lose yet' button would be in stark contrast to all the other 'healing' options in Soku which have ridiculous recoveries, and if we're to give their resurrection cards such recovery then the whole point is moot; just punish again into a full-damage combo. It's needless extending of a round, not to mention a waste of meter. They could've given them much higher HP, but since they decided that everyone needs the same HP total then that options out.
Drake explains why I can't think of any way to implement Kisume or Parsee. Some characters are just too simplistic, some characters' powers don't translate well into a fighting game, etc. Which is why putting a character into a fighting game isn't as easy as it seems unless the characters were created with fighting games already in mind, which Touhou wasn't, and from a developer standpoint it's far simpler to just put in characters that don't require so much headache; ie recent characters and or well established ones with powers and or abilities that are simple to translate into fighting game mechanics. I don't think Mokou would be too simplistic though, as I can very easily see her moveset. It's just the whole 'hey I'm immortal' thing is a mind boggler. Give her a much lower health bar but multiple lives? And whenever she loses a life bar she disintegrates and reappears where she wishes? Who knows. It even applies to other games like DotS; Trance would agree with me that Kaguya and Mokou's state of balance have been dramatic, to say the least.
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It's really as easy as just having her blow up and resurrect when she dies. If you lose the fight you still lose the fight, even if you resurrect perfectly afterwards. There was never any pronounced difference in the main games either, so I'm not sure why there's a real need to incorporate it to that extent; while I do think it's a key part of their character it doesn't need a mechanic to itself that messes around with the other mechanics just for the sake of having the ability in the game.
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Forgot one for the ">50% group"
Tenshi, considering her little scheme with the Hakurei Shrine (that Yukari foiled)...
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The interview makes it clear that the reason Mokou and Kaguya weren't put in is because they decided to go for small fry characters instead of yet another final boss. Hence Wriggle and Nitori, they just ran out of time. It had nothing to do with mechanical issues.
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I personally think Mokou would've been really easy to implement, but Kaguya? Hell, I have no idea how they could have done that. Her only spellcards are the 5 impossible requests. Her power is literally impossible to translate into actual spellcards/attacks. It hurts my head to think about her skill cards even more than her spellcards. Kaguya is, purely in my opinion, real hard to create move-wise.
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I think they could do Kaguya as something like an immobile version of Nu-13 or Mu-12; extremely slow beyond maybe a teleport or two, and she just sits there throwing projectiles at you, with shorter ranged projectiles as her 'melee' moves. Effectively Hilda from Under Night inBirth, or Virgilia from the Umineko fighter. It would be an almost impossible task to approach her. :V
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Well yeah, there's many way Kaguya could've been made into a fun fighting style, but her attacks would be...what exactly?
I can't remember the game, but it's a fan game that's a mix between races and battles. Anyway, Kaguya was in it and she had a fun playstyle; She was very limited power wise, but every time an impossible request was successfully used (hitting the enemy), she'd unlock the other, giving her an increasingly powerful and diversified move set. THAT would've been nice, but still doesn't rule out the ''I have 5 spellcards and a strange power'' problem.
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For her melee attacks, either your token to taps or stick pokes for the weak attacks, and actually summoning her requests as blunt weapons for the stronger ones as she changes from various smug poses. As shown here by Hilda on the initial right for the first match. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur31lu4Sul0
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Hopeless Masquerade's final boss being the Watatsuki Sisters.
Now THAT would be ZUN trolling. Not putting Shinki isn't.
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Hopeless Masquerade's final boss being the Watatsuki Sisters.
Now THAT would be ZUN trolling. Not putting Shinki isn't.
That would mean some attacks might not do any damage at all :X since super cheap Yorihime could cut through Master Sparks and eat Stardust Reveries and use Sakuya's knives to her benefit.
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I'm honestly not getting why some people think it would be difficult to incorporate [Character X] in a fighting game. Especially characters with such rich themes as Kaguya and Mokou. With a little imagination, there's a lot of possible magic you could work into there.
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I'm honestly not getting why some people think it would be difficult to incorporate [Character X] in a fighting game. Especially characters with such rich themes as Kaguya and Mokou. With a little imagination, there's a lot of possible magic you could work into there.
As I said earlier, Mokou would be awesome to make; More kick attacks and fire based techniques offers millions of possibilities; Fireballs, explosions, phoenixes, etc.
As for Kaguya, her power is ''Manipulation of the eternal and the instantaneous.'' How... how can anyone use that in battle in another way than Sakuya's time abilities? And her spellcards are based on a legend, limiting her spellcards to 5 treasures; Unless many variants were made and used in different ways (spells and skills), I personally can't think of anything else to give her. I would've proposed rainbow projectiles, like many portrayals of her, but Meiling kinda stole the rainbow in UNL.
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There's an Azumanga Daioh doujin fighter. If you're creative enough, it can be done.
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As for Kaguya, her power is ''Manipulation of the eternal and the instantaneous.'' How... how can anyone use that in battle in another way than Sakuya's time abilities? And her spellcards are based on a legend, limiting her spellcards to 5 treasures; Unless many variants were made and used in different ways (spells and skills), I personally can't think of anything else to give her. I would've proposed rainbow projectiles, like many portrayals of her, but Meiling kinda stole the rainbow in UNL.
Kaguya also employs themes including the moon (and with it, space and stars), the night in general, bamboo, rabbits, not to mention the five treasures have mad potential ... the limits can go as far as the imagination.
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Kaguya also employs themes including the moon (and with it, space and stars), the night in general, bamboo, rabbits, not to mention the five treasures have mad potential
Good point. I guess her weather would be full moon, uh?
Speaking of weather, I seem to be the only one here who liked such feature in SWR/UNL ;___;
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rabbits
Ahahahahaha oh man
Now I'm just imagining Kaguya doing fuck all and just being the hitbox while all her attacks call rabbits in from offscreen to attack
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Kaguya can be Charlotte and just order minions to attack. Then when you think you've won
Eirin comes out to gank you
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doing fuck all and just being the hitbox while all her attacks call rabbits in from offscreen to attack
That would be Tewi's job! Tewi would be a fun character to play as; Huge wooden hammer, rabbits trolling and stat manipulation.
Anyway, I'd love to see Seiga in Hopeless Masquerade. She MUST throw fetuses, thunderballs or Yoshika. (Or all of them!)
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Ahahahahaha oh man
Now I'm just imagining Kaguya doing fuck all and just being the hitbox while all her attacks call rabbits in from offscreen to attack
In Lunatic mode, once you hit a rabbit for the first time, it divides into two rabbits. Then they bounce faster, but stop dividing at that point.
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It's actually quite easy to put Kaguya in a fighter. Lemme try to translate some of her spellcards:
Divine Treasure "Brilliant Dragon Bullet"
She would summon a long oriental dragon made of light to attack the opponent.
Divine Treasure "Buddhist Diamond"
Some diamond shards would be summoned to hit the enemy. Or something like that.
New Impossible Request "Seamless Ceiling of Kinkaku-ji"
A ceiling made of gold would come from the sky and smash the opponent on the ground.
Impossible Request "Bullet Branch of Hourai -Rainbow Danmaku-"
Something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89seZJnIP0k) (check her colorful beams at 3:55)
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The issue isn't spellcards, it's what she would do normally.
I can hardly even imagine her moving. I was always under the impression that in IN she was sitting down (and I don't know if she actually isn't or not)
So the thought of her in a fighter IS kind of hilarious to me.
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I can hardly even imagine her moving. I was always under the impression that in IN she was sitting down (and I don't know if she actually isn't or not)
Thanks god I'm not the only one who thought she was sitting.
She'd summon Tewi and Eirin in battle. That's what she needs to do.
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- Kaguya is often portrayed as a slow character, which reminded me of TasoFro's PatchCon (where she's a powerful aoe, but her projectiles and herself are slow); hopefully TasoFro can (when they have the time to make her) avoid taking the lazy route of basing Kaguya's playstyle on MB's Archetype Earth
- Mokou's ressurrection can have a high cost (making you earn it); this reminds me of 3s' Gill (ressurrects once if his super meter is full, but can't use supers afterwards and, though his ressurrection pushes opponents away during the skill, he can be hit, which stops the HP regen, and even killed), UMvC's Phoenix (haven't played it, though, but that would make Mokou have low stamina and have a high cost on her ress), DotA's phoenix hero (with its rebirth ult, unless I'm misremembering things again) or DotS' Mokou (which would be like Elena's healing, and require distance or a throw/knockdown)
- rabbit rush reminds me of two things: Arakune's curse (don't play BB, though) and (MvC's) Strider's super which isn't Ouroboros or Ragnarok, forgot which. (I'd like Satori to have that attack with cats and crows, instead)
- rabbit division reminds me of Nazuna's animal-shaped projectiles (Arcana Heart series)
Hopeless Masquerade's final boss being the Watatsuki Sisters.
Now THAT would be ZUN trolling. Not putting Shinki isn't.
them being the final boss in a bad game (in case the game really does turn to be a bad one), that would be trolling :D
(though I'm afraid that neither their presence or Mima's can seemingly awesome-fy the game -- TD would be surely a better game if Mima really was in it, for example :D)
it would seem difficult to think of a playstyle for Toyohime, but Yorihime could use some yet unrevealed skills regarding the kami she invokes (I know nothing of japanese lore, just assuming that she really has a nearly inexhaustible repertoire), and be a low-stamina character with an immense amount of options, the "difficult but awesome" type.
edit:
The issue isn't spellcards, it's what she would do normally.
I can hardly even imagine her moving. I was always under the impression that in IN she was sitting down (and I don't know if she actually isn't or not)
So the thought of her in a fighter IS kind of hilarious to me.
know what that reminds me? Riannon, in Aquapazza :D
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Mokou doesn't need to resurrect. Doesn't she basically give up fighting after her injuries get the best of her? I'd think spending a few rounds getting the snot beaten out of her would easily account for that - it's not like she's immune to pain any more than a regular person is, and nobody gets killed after losing a round anyway...
(Totally partial to
As I said earlier, Mokou would be awesome to make; More kick attacks and fire based techniques offers millions of possibilities; Fireballs, explosions, phoenixes, etc.
^^^ this, btw. :))
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As I said earlier, Mokou would be awesome to make; More kick attacks and fire based techniques offers millions of possibilities; Fireballs, explosions, phoenixes, etc.
As for Kaguya, her power is ''Manipulation of the eternal and the instantaneous.'' How... how can anyone use that in battle in another way than Sakuya's time abilities? And her spellcards are based on a legend, limiting her spellcards to 5 treasures; Unless many variants were made and used in different ways (spells and skills), I personally can't think of anything else to give her. I would've proposed rainbow projectiles, like many portrayals of her, but Meiling kinda stole the rainbow in UNL.
Well, to be fair, there're also the other versions of her 5 spells, y'know, stuff like how Salamander Shield is the H/L version of Fire Rat's robe? Just cuz in the source game they're the same thing doesn't mean they have to be the same in the fighter, right? Also, didn't some characters' spells from the other fighters originate IN those fighters? Who says you can't do that again? Maybe there're some other legendary items Kaguya could conjure from other stories and stuff?
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Let's not forget that Kaguya has superhuman strength. Would be fun to see that implemented!
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That would mean some attacks might not do any damage at all :X since super cheap Yorihime could cut through Master Sparks and eat Stardust Reveries and use Sakuya's knives to her benefit.
Or be (temporarily) immune to projectiles. Making her the Touhou equivalent of Jade (http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Jade).
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Let's not forget that Kaguya has superhuman strength. Would be fun to see that implemented!
Every character in the fighting game ends up with some sort of way to become a melee master.
- Reimu's Miko-Fu
- Marisa's Broom-Slap
- Sakuya Ninja-Maid style
- Sanae's gohei/wand/stick suddenly becoming a magical weapon of ultimate destruction.
Oh and by the way, this has been bugging me for a long time now, when Reimu does her charged 6A and her air 2A, it creates some sort of white...thingie...something...that she breaks. What exactly is that supposed to be? My theory is that she's breaking a boundary. Or something.
...Now I can't un-think Kaguya going Hulk all over everyone.
(Totally partial to^^^ this, btw. :))
I've always liked kick based attacks. I dunno, a kick in the face sounds way more threatening than a fist. And Mokou (explosively) kicking someone in the face with a trail of fire following her legs is preeeetty much my definition of badass.
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Kaguya would be kind of weird to implement. She has super human strength, so would you implement that? Even though she has super human strength, she rarely appears to use it, so should you implement it? Or just ignore it, since Aya is a youkai and should be physically stronger than Reimu or Marisa, but the damage does not reflect that on her physical attacks.
Her speed should be fairly slow, but she can stop time, do you implement her abilities as the same as Sakuya's? The description of her abilities is that she can do anything at instantaneous speed, so would she have some kind of time freeze/blink strike mechanic? Would you also implement her ability to manipulate parallel time lines(part of her time manipulation)? This could give her some sort of swap mechanic, kind of like Komachi and her life swap or position swap.
The Impossible Request should be implemented, but not necessarily all of them. I think the most well known one is Jeweled Branch of Hourai or something like that.
How about her resurrection? It doesn't really matter if fighters don't die, the point is Kaguya and Mokou both have a resurrection theme associated with them, so not having a resurrection mechanic is weird. If either Kaguya or Mokou are in, it is expected for one of them or both to have a resurrection mechanic. How do you balance that? It would be quite difficult and takes a lot of time. Do it wrong and they are either overpowered or too weak.
Every character in the fighting game ends up with some sort of way to become a melee master.
- Reimu's Miko-Fu
- Marisa's Broom-Slap
- Sakuya Ninja-Maid style
- Sanae's gohei/wand/stick suddenly becoming a magical weapon of ultimate destruction.
Those are kind of bad examples. Reimu and Sakuya should be decent at martial arts. Marisa and Sanae would likely be physically fit, so while not martial arts experts, should be able to hold their own. Patchouli and Alice are known to be not as good physically and it somewhat reflects in the game.
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Those are kind of bad examples. Reimu and Sakuya should be decent at martial arts. Marisa and Sanae would likely be physically fit, so while not martial arts experts, should be able to hold their own. Patchouli and Alice are known to be not as good physically and it somewhat reflects in the game.
Sanae's melee attacks are her hitting people with a sheet of white paper that sends them flying across the stage. Same goes for everyone, really; My point wasn't that ''ZOMG THEY ALL GAIN STRENGTH RANDOMLY WTF'', it was that in the end, no matter their actual physical strength, it rarely does much difference: A kick in the face from Reimu will have the same effect as a Butterfly spin from Yuyuko, or a broom-smash by marisa, or whatever you want it to be. In the end, Kaguya's super strength (unless implied) would go unnoticed because that's how fighting games work. Not everyone can have a radically different melee style like Alice or Suwako, y'know.
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Sanae's melee attacks are her hitting people with a sheet of white paper that sends them flying across the stage.
I understand what you are getting at, but I am saying those are not good examples, since they can all be explained. Sanae's sheet of white paper can very well be enchanted. Considering her opponents, it is most likely enchanted or magical in nature.
Which is why I put another example, Aya being a youkai, and youkai are supposed to be physically stronger than humans, but it wasn't reflected in the game.
Kaguya has some traits and the known ones should be reflected in a game. I like the way IaMP, SWR, and Soku characters are designed. Their fighting styles are all fairly unique and give you a sense that these may be how those characters fight. I would like to see that continue in Hopeless Masquerade. If Kaguya were in, I have mentioned a few things that should be taken into consideration.
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I know one way to implement Kaguya's super strength: lift and throw the Seamless Ceiling of Kinkaku-ji as one of her special moves.
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Speaking of weather, I seem to be the only one here who liked such feature in SWR/UNL ;___;
I like it too! Having an element of luck makes things much more fun.
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Sanae's melee attacks are her hitting people with a sheet of white paper that sends them flying across the stage.
We are just lucky she hasn't gotten her hands on construction paper. Or cardboard even.
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I like it too! Having an element of luck makes things much more fun.
I'm pretty sure I've both yelled out my hatred and sang my love for every weather in the game. About to win but opponent keeps blocking? HERE COMES TYPHOON! Opponent is about to activate super spellcard of death you won't be able to dodge? Why hello there, Mountain Vapor/Snow!
I mean, while it's not conventional and may lead to a loss even though you're technically better than your opponent, if you stop taking it seriously and just play to have fun without caring about winning or losing, that little randomness makes matches very fun.
I know one way to implement Kaguya's super strength: lift and throw the Seamless Ceiling of Kinkaku-ji as one of her special moves.
Bonus points for a WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY at the end.
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We are just lucky she hasn't gotten her hands on construction paper. Or cardboard even.
Teach her origami and you'll invent the apocalypse. :getdown:
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Teach her origami and you'll invent the apocalypse. :getdown:
Think for a second; With a rectangle piece of paper, she can send you flying across the air and create explosive fireworks.
Think of what it would become if it was some sort of magic paper swan of doom. *shudders*
Ooh and I realized something; I REALLY wish Hopeless Masquerade won't use any 263 or 421 combinations. I can't do those at ALL. Does anybody have any tips on how I'm supposed do them in UNL? I don't get it @___@
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Ooh and I realized something; I REALLY wish Hopeless Masquerade won't use any 263 or 421 combinations. I can't do those at ALL. Does anybody have any tips on how I'm supposed do them in UNL? I don't get it @___@
This probably isn't the thread to talk about that, so I'll just keep it short. First of all, I'm guessing you mean 623, because 263 isn't a thing iirc :U
You really just have to get used to the feel of it. It took me quite a while too. Practice the movement slowly first.
First press 6, then let go. Then press 2, and then 6 again, without letting go of 2.
It seems that a common struggle for people is at the beginning - be sure to have completely released 6 before pressing 2. Watch your fingers when you practice the movement, and be careful not to jumble your steps.
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This probably isn't the thread to talk about that, so I'll just keep it short. First of all, I'm guessing you mean 623, because 263 isn't a thing iirc :U
You really just have to get used to the feel of it. It took me quite a while too. Practice the movement slowly first.
First press 6, then let go. Then press 2, and then 6 again, without letting go of 2.
It seems that a common struggle for people is at the beginning - be sure to have completely released 6 before pressing 2. Watch your fingers when you practice the movement, and be careful not to jumble your steps.
Ah yes, I confused the two buttons. I simply can't do that combination so instead I usually dash and do the usual 236 thing. It's not very convenient, but works ok, I guess.
And I REALLY hope they'll keep UNL's button configuration in Hopeless Masquerade. Seriously, it takes like 10 seconds to change buttons.
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If your fingers are fast enough, you start turning 236 into 623's. It's annoying in the reverse direction, but I like my DP/reverse DP motions.
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Playing fighters help you get used to DPs (623 motions) or Fireballs (236) motions. Hey, at least you aren't getting 720's or charge attacks (I can't play charge characters...ever)
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I'm able to do 623 reliably by just doing 236236. It catches the necessary directions and ignores the rest. Of course this doesn't work in games where that's a motion for a super :V
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I just do 6236. Same thing but shorter and no accidental super :V
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Kaguya would be kind of weird to implement. She has super human strength, so would you implement that?
I'd say yes, we have Suika and Remilia (and Okuu) as examples of physical feats. Presence of physically strong girls that don't look strong isn't that weird in other fighting games as well (Vanguard Princess' Lilith, and -- shameless plug again -- Arcana Heart's Fiona and Angelia -- the latter can perform King Of Tager on buildings and meteors, though her damage isn't great outside of that. Fiona, on the other hand..).
Teach her origami and you'll invent the apocalypse. :getdown:
origami danmaku :D
(if she met Maori (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM8L5c2VKuo) -- from Arcana Heart series, again --, Sanae could learn how to use spintops and paper cranes for maximum rage (combined with her already existing moves); a friend of mine has once commented that fighting against Maori is the same as fighting against 6 things: Maori herself, her spintop, her two smaller sisters, her onee-san, and her arcana :p)
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Funnily enough, before playing IaMP/SWR, I wasn't too into fighters and always though DPs (623s) were double fireball motions (236236).
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As far as I can tell, on the keyboard, if you do 626 you can do dragon punch type moves.
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As far as I can tell, on the keyboard, if you do 626 you can do dragon punch type moves.
That's usually only because as you transition from the 2 to 6 at one moment you'll hit 3 (unless you have super fast fingers), so in the end you're doing what Suikama mentioned, a 6236
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I want to mention something about Kaguya's speed.
Iku is pretty slow in SWR/UNL but she's still an AMAZING character.
So what I think about having both Mouku and Kaguya:
Mouku can be a fast, but light attacker.
Kaguya can be a slow, yet powerful attacker.
I think it'd be fun to have these two << :3
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That's usually only because as you transition from the 2 to 6 at one moment you'll hit 3 (unless you have super fast fingers), so in the end you're doing what Suikama mentioned, a 6236
On the keyboard, you do not need to transition from 2 to 3 to 6. you can just hit the forward, down, forward + attack and it will work. SWR and Soku are somewhat friendly to button presses, so you can get away with it. I don't think you can get away with it in IaMP though, the key presses are more strict.
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Mouku can be a fast, but light attacker.
Kaguya can be a slow, yet powerful attacker.
Make Kaguya slow but with fast attacks, and Mokou fast but with slow attacks... like Captain Falcon. :V
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The only way I see Kaguya being used is with a heap of projectile attacks. TBH, I don't need another Yuyuko. It seriously gets on people's nerves when someone stays in the corner and does nothing but spam butterfly flurries at you. :V But anyway, she was originally slated to appear in UNL, so they must already have something to work off of. Same for Mokou.
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Kaguya can be Charlotte and just order minions to attack. Then when you think you've won Eirin comes out to gank you
For some reason i'm picturing that happening exactly how that did in PMMM.
And i can't stop laughing.
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TBH, I don't need another Yuyuko. It seriously gets on people's nerves when someone stays in the corner and does nothing but spam butterfly flurries at you.
Even worse; A Patchouli who does NOTHING but spam C over and over and over again. Doesn't work? 6C, 6C, 6C, 6C...
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If the opponent has the chance to just spam the same bullets at you all the time, you're doing it wrong.
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If he's doing it as Yuyuko and you're seriously being threatened by waves of butterflies, some of the most fragile bullets in the game, then something's wrong.
I mean, graze attacks exist for a reason.
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I graze so much that I forget to block and I still rarely get hit.
Helps that I mainly play as Remilia, who dodges melee like a boss.
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If he's doing it as Yuyuko and you're seriously being threatened by waves of butterflies, some of the most fragile bullets in the game, then something's wrong.
I mean, graze attacks exist for a reason.
It's not a question whether I'm threatened or not, It's still the fact that it pesters the hell out of me that some people do that; and they have the tools to do it. :V
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Latest blog post: Grazing is in.
http://tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/index.html
I get the feeling it won't work quite the same as we are used to. There were regular dashes, and that conical dash shield that resembles the dash shield used in Psychic Force. Neither seemed to be able to actually go through bullets, even getting stopped cold by them.
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I can't read the lingo... but judging from the preview movie, there will be something 13.5 related at Comiket 83.
Movie, also at main site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbFyYb6y9PU
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I can't read the lingo... but judging from the preview movie, there will be something 13.5 related at Comiket 83.
Movie, also at main site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbFyYb6y9PU
It's a demo, it was mentioned wayyyyyyy back when this video first popped up.
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Ah... who the hell is this?
(http://gyazo.com/f50e41e4356d62359e637b5c5d8f207f.png)
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Looks like Marisa if you ask me.
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Naw, in the game preview video Marisa had blond hair. This could be another character.
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That picture doesn't have color, so how can you tell it's not blond? Unless you saw a colored version somewhere else...
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Ah... who the hell is this?
(http://gyazo.com/f50e41e4356d62359e637b5c5d8f207f.png)
They had this icon on their page since IaMP, if I'm not mistaken. It's been there at least for forever, so it's got nothing to do with the new game in any way except also beeing touhou-related.
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Ah... who the hell is this?
(http://gyazo.com/f50e41e4356d62359e637b5c5d8f207f.png)
Could be Marisa:
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2617/quicke.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/quicke.png/)
(Really fast and bad recoloring)
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Yeah is Marisa!
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If they remove the weather system, while I won't lament the loss of that game mechanic persay, I will miss this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EloWgOe03L8
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oh god cant wait
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http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=64
The trial version has gone gold (the master disc is complete, and ready for manufacturing).
Questions answered:
-No network multiplayer in the trial version.
-No decks. You have to choose your spell cards. However, there IS a character-building system.
-Spell cards are not only for supers, they offer other benefits.
-Win the approval of the audience, and good things happen. Think pro wrestling.
The screenshot shows the Hakurei Shrine stage, now with an audience, including characters you should see for yourself (Remilia, Sakuya?, Patchouli, two other maids, Yukari, Ran, Chen
). You see, everyone has a chance of appearing in the game, just not necessarily as a playable character.
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I was wondering when Touhou would get a proper tournament arc instead of just people running around asking questions and punching each other.
Awesome. :]
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inb4thosecharactersaredeconfirmedbecausetheyappearasaudiences
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Are they selling the demo or it is freeware?
inb4thosecharactersaredeconfirmedbecausetheyappearasaudiences
Well, that would make sense.
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Isnt' more likely that anyone who appears as an audience member is likely confirmed to NOT be playable? That's the case with most fighting games, I thought. All those characters so far as audience members wouldn't really fit in to the religion wars story anyways, I think.
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Isnt' more likely that anyone who appears as an audience member is likely confirmed to NOT be playable? That's the case with most fighting games, I thought.
Yeah, that's what he said. ''Deconfirmed'' :P
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Oh, oops. I missed the De.
Too bad. I liked those characters. But assuming a limited size roster, it's hard to imagine them being able to fit anyone beyond the characters most related to the story and a new char or two for the bosses, and maybe one surprise. :P
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I, for one, welcome in a way the removal of Sakuya, Remilia, Patchy and Yukari. Sure, I love those characters, but that means a fresh roster of characters instead of the IaMP to SWR transition, where the same characters were used, and then some more were added.
I mean, I've played as those 4 for three fighting games, I think I'll be fine :P
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Yeah, that's what he said. ''Deconfirmed'' :P
For the record, the proper word should have been "disconfirmed".
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Isnt' more likely that anyone who appears as an audience member is likely confirmed to NOT be playable? That's the case with most fighting games, I thought. All those characters so far as audience members wouldn't really fit in to the religion wars story anyways, I think.
This game can do what SF4 and MvC3 did. Certain characters appear in the background when not being played as, and when played as, they are not there. Balrog and Tron are respective examples.
On the bright side, the SDM crew not being playable means more space for new characters. There are several characters in the series, so why always them?
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I imagine at the bare minimum each "faction" will get 3 playable characters. Maybe 2 if Tasofro runs out of time and resources. Including Reimu and Marisa, that's already 11 characters! Then throw in a boss and you hit 12. Considering this is an all-new engine with all new sprites, that's already probably an overly-optimistic amount.
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>Sakuya most likely not playable
Thank god. I had enough of her in fighters anyways.
and then Koishi comes in maybe please?
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>Sakuya most likely not playable
Thank god. I had enough of her in fighters anyways.
and then Koishi comes in maybe please?
Brace yourselves for the fan arts! If you know what I mean, that is...
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excuse me but what does win the approval of audience mean?izzit like a fan poll for the next character or something
and by the way if u notice remilia is not carrying an umbrella and sakuya is clearly holding a teapot instead of an umbrella
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two other maids
.
Y..Yumeko and Kana?!
Also some questions about the flight system's been answered if somebody could translate:
・地面無いの？
Ａ床はあります。と行っても床バウンドやられ程度しか
ゲームには影響しないので演出的な物ですね
・上下に動けるんですか？
Ａ上下が急上昇急降下のコマンドになっていて、自由に上下に行けます
ただ軸をずらして留まり続ける事はシステム的に難しくなってます
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Y..Yumeko and Kana?!
Kana's not a maid.
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Kana's not a maid.
Kana wears a maid costume, just like the one from the screenshot.
Marisa needs to gtfo so I can see their faces.
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excuse me but what does win the approval of audience mean?izzit like a fan poll for the next character or something
No, it's a mechanic of the game. What it does and how it works, nobody knows. It'll be according to the respect humans will have for you during your battle. Impress them and stuff.
and by the way if u notice remilia is not carrying an umbrella and sakuya is clearly holding a teapot instead of an umbrella
And she's under the shade of a tree.
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So there is a character building system then? Well, I'm satisfied now. I'm assuming the audience members there is the crowd you're trying to please during the fight. If I had to guess, they won't be playable?
I'm liking the art so far. Can't wait to see what we can find out in the new year~
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Also some questions about the flight system's been answered if somebody could translate:
Q - Is there no ground?
A - The floor exists, but it doesn't influence the game aside from being a floor boundary.
Q - Can you move up and down?
A - Using commands to steeply and and fall, you can move up and down freely. However, the system will make maintaining the movement of the axis difficult.
Someone else could probably do a better job of this, but here's a quick one.
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Isnt' more likely that anyone who appears as an audience member is likely confirmed to NOT be playable? That's the case with most fighting games, I thought. All those characters so far as audience members wouldn't really fit in to the religion wars story anyways, I think.
To be perfectly honest, it would strike me as a huge surprise if Remilia of all people were not to appear. She is a rather popular character so I don't see why you would remove her. To be fair, it is true you can use the slot to put in new characters to keep it fresh; but I'm certain many people are going to be disappointed.
(PATCHY NO!!!) :ohdear:
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To be perfectly honest, it would strike me as a huge surprise if Remilia of all people were not to appear. She is a rather popular character so I don't see why you would remove her. To be fair, it is true you can use the slot to put in new characters to keep it fresh; but I'm certain many people are going to be disappointed.
(PATCHY NO!!!) :ohdear:
But I don't think anyone is MORE fitting to be removed than Remilia; She's probably the number one resident in Gensokyo when it comes to not giving a damn about religion or humans, the two main theme of the game. I can't see it any other way than removing her.
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About the vertical movement mechanic and it being "hard" to keep movement up; it seems to be something more about how you can dive down and rise up, but the game returns naturally to an even plane, like a magnet keeping the players from staying too far distant from one another vertically. Something like River Mist weather I'd think, except vertical.
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I don't know why or how having Remi or anyone would keep other characters out. I mean it's a fighter and Touhou, so the more characters the better right? Even if some character wind up as clones of one another, it shouldn't bother people too much. And with this new customization thingie even if they start out as clones it doesn't mean they'll stay that way. Even online if you end up in mirror match it doesn't mean you'll be fighting the same character. So yeah, I'd be favor of the entire cast of Soku returning and then some.
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Depends on how much work they save from bringing a previous character.
If reusing a previous character saves a lot of time compared to making a new character from scratch,
bringing most of the previous characters will expand the roster by quite a lot.
I think making the sprites is most of the bulk of making a character, (correct me if I'm wrong)
so reusing previous characters wouldn't mean that it will become a larger roster.
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Keep in mind that this game is built from scratch, so even returning characters will take the same amount of time to make as new ones.
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TBH, even if a character has been seen in the background, it does not mean they aren't a playable character. All tasofro would have to do is not have them be in the background if they are being used by either player.
Unless everyone in the background is static.
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TBH, even if a character has been seen in the background, it does not mean they aren't a playable character. All tasofro would have to do is not have them be in the background if they are being used by either player.
Unless everyone in the background is static.
While I do agree that it's a possibility, I can't think of any reasons as to why the SDM would get involved with a faith related event that tries to gain the love of humans.
I think we can pretty much take it for granted that they won't be playable.
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But I don't think anyone is MORE fitting to be removed than Remilia; She's probably the number one resident in Gensokyo when it comes to not giving a damn about religion or humans, the two main theme of the game. I can't see it any other way than removing her.
You know, except she feeds on human blood, and has religious motifs.
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HM opening and gameplay video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUjUPzIfBk).
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Why do I have the feeling that Reimu and Marisa are going to be the only playable characters in the demo?
And you think we can assume that Shou, Byakuren, Miko, and Futo are going to be playable, judging from the intro? And Unzan...
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HM opening and gameplay video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUjUPzIfBk).
Dat Colorful Path remix.
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Back to the IAMP spellcard system, I see...
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HM opening and gameplay video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUjUPzIfBk).
This looks epic, and I really like the new spritework.
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and by the way if u notice remilia is not carrying an umbrella and sakuya is clearly holding a teapot instead of an umbrella
This has happened before. I don't quite remember the conditions but Remilia can... survive in sunlight.
Those two maids in the background, could they be, Sunny Milk and Star Sapphire. I think I see Sunny's wings, and this wouldn't be an unusual location for them to be, although the clothes are different.
I think the audience is a great idea. I was just thinking about this the other day.
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This has happened before. I don't quite remember the conditions but Remilia can... survive in sunlight.
Those two maids in the background, could they be, Sunny Milk and Star Sapphire. I think I see Sunny's wings, and this wouldn't be an unusual location for them to be, although the clothes are different.
I think the audience is a great idea. I was just thinking about this the other day.
If you look the OP, those two maids are just your typical fairy maids (and other one of them is holding umbrella for Remi).
The three fairies can be seen at the background right from Chen and Ran.
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I noticed that the stars in Marisa's spirit gauge show 'something', but Reimu doesn't seen to have anything like it. Or my eyes aren't good enough.
I will state here that I do not wish to see the Stage 2 boss, Stage 3 boss, Stage 4 boss, Stage 5 boss, or the Stage 6 boss of 東方紅魔郷 ~ Embodiment of Scarlet Devil as a playable character in this game. Overrated as heck.
Anyways, I'm pretty sure that my laptop won't be able to withstand such high quality. Should have options to turn off the audience.
Using some faulty logic, one can guess that the full game won't come out before the next shooter game, and ZUN always releases his game in Summer Comiket,
so I won't be too surprised if the full game comes out 12 months later.
Hopefully I would get a better laptop then.
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Oh man, I'm so psyched for this. I never thought I'd be this excited for a fighting game release, but this looks too fun to pass up. :D
Also, I find the logic that "it'd upset fans if she weren't in" rather naive. In 17 years, I can't think of a single instance where that has ever influenced ZUN's decisions.
It's most likely that the character roster will mostly consist of characters from the four main faith factions, since that alone would make a pretty big amount. Counting Reimu and Marisa as givens, and if you were to use all the characters from the Moriya, Buddhist, and Taoist groups (unlikely, but just in theory), you'd come to about 16 characters, 15 if Yoshika were made to be an assist character for Seiga. There is room for some wild cards, though. You never know.
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My favourite thing from the intro is probably the Derpy looking Unzan XD
Also one thing I noticed during the actual gameplay was a "Stun" % that seems to fill up rather quickly compaired to the "Rate" % and I'm guessing the "Rate" % is like the new name for the "Limit" % that was used in I&MP, SWR and Soku.
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I'm guessing the "Rate" % is like the new name for the "Limit" % that was used in I&MP, SWR and Soku.
I'm pretty sure that "Rate %" is proration/damage scaling.
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I noticed that the stars in Marisa's spirit gauge show 'something', but Reimu doesn't seen to have anything like it. Or my eyes aren't good enough.
I will state here that I do not wish to see the Stage 2 boss, Stage 3 boss, Stage 4 boss, Stage 5 boss, or the Stage 6 boss of 東方紅魔郷 ~ Embodiment of Scarlet Devil as a playable character in this game.
I too would like them to put Rumia into a fighting game. :3
As for the spirit gauge, Marisa did do something at about 1:21 that removed all the stars, but I couldn't see what that did, other than a sound and a flash.
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FIGHTING GAEM BRAKEDOWNS
0:46 Reimu taking shrine maiden duty seriously, Marisa is in deep thought then poses like a body builder. (CHOMARISA)
0:57 Marisa trades a bullet with Reimu melee
1:03 Some sort of rising broom slash attack. Does not look safe at all, could probably be used as a punish if you're below someone.
1:04 Melee combo system seems to be an autocombo system like Hisouten, except you choose your direction for the ender. Like Meiling from Hisoutensoku, I guess. Reimu does a ground bounce ender, links with amulet, then does wall bounce ender into youkai buster for hard 'knockdown'
1:08 Yeah, most of us were right about dizzy being hard knockdown. Look at all the time you have to set up okizeme, that's actually sorta sickening.
1:11 Marisa has a divekick? That hitbox was downright obnoxious, Reimu wasn't even touching the broom, and then she canceled it into that broom slash thing.
1:22 Marisa does some sort of shiny thing that turns her entire meter red, then she immediately uses Patchy's old 421 crystal rain...except it has a hitbox going up. That could be some silly okizeme right there. Probably some sort of move swap system? Also made me notice how Marisa's stars in her mana meter slowly light up from red to yellow to blue, and when she does get blue she does the shiny thing. which burns all of the stars. Gonna guess that it's an EX meter of some sort.
1:30 Dash attack into wall bounce, link with small talismans, autocombo into ground bounce finisher, links to large amulet, doesn't finish the combo.
1:34 Marisa declares.
1:35 marisaaliens.jpg, note how that sorta froze time.
1:40 As expected, that slash thing is not particularly safe.
1:47 Was that a fucking guard cancel into projectiles into spellcard? Wasn't fast enough to actually hit Reimu, but that would be interesting as hell if you could burn meter in blockstun to let you do something.
1:50 Blazing Star recovery is ass, full Reimu punish, same combo from 1:04 except closer to the screen
2:02 lol wake up dream seal.
attacks seem to do blue and red damage. Red damage is just normal, blue fills up to the limit of the white and is filled by doing and receiving damage. once it's entirely blue, you are allowed to declare; Marisa pops her declaration immediately after going full blue. Which means when people start getting low hp, SUPERS EVERYWHERE. Basic breakdown, I guess.
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Which means when people start getting low hp, SUPERS EVERYWHERE. Basic breakdown, I guess.
I immediately thought of the main shooters again when I read this - you know how characters like to start up Spellcards when each healthbar gets low? Maybe Tasofro really is trying to bridge a gap with the shooters here. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it, who knows. :V
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Marisa pops her declaration immediately after going full blue. Which means when people start getting low hp, SUPERS EVERYWHERE. Basic breakdown, I guess.
soooo CvS2 S-groove? :V
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Looking cool. Loved how the declarations look in this game.
It also amused me to see Ran and Chen standing on the ground, while Yukari decides to go get a seat on the shrine roof (Reimu probably just looooves that one). Probably so nobody can swipe any snacks she might decide to gap in undetected (I know she wasn't doing that in the actual picture, but the thought of her watching the fight like she's going to a sporting match amuses me).
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My greatest nightmare of all things ever imaginable, an IaMP spellcard declaration mechanic.
I just hope we can have more than one or two spellcards, or that's just dramatically doing many steps back.
Aside from that, I love the sprites and the backgrounds. The attacks aren't as flashy as SWR/UNL, but still a bit more than IaMP.
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Honestly I'm happy with the IaMP declaration system. I mean, choosing spell cards are similar to choosing Supers in Street Fighter 3rd Strike or choosing Ultras in Street Fighter 4
-
It makes it more likely the game won't have the amazing diversity of spell cards SWR/12.3 had, though :(
Also, animations for the beginning/end of rounds! It only took Tasofro this long!
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It makes it more likely the game won't have the amazing diversity of spell cards SWR/12.3 had, though :(
Also, animations for the beginning/end of rounds! It only took Tasofro this long!
I'm completely with you there. I'll miss the enormous variety Dx
I agree, the animations at the beginning/end are a very nice detail. Makes it even more Fighting Game-ish.
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It removes the horrible task of having to balance EVERY SINGLE THING though, which is a logical choice I can't fault them for.
-
Better to do a few things spectacularly than everything horribly. :V
And at any rate all I want to know is who's gonna be visiting from the Myouren Temple.
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I figure we'll find out who a few other people are when the demo is released; maybe they'll introduce like one from each faction as your opponents in that.
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As for the spirit gauge, Marisa did do something at about 1:21 that removed all the stars, but I couldn't see what that did, other than a sound and a flash.
Right after she used her super, her stars disappeared. The exact same thing happened at 1:21, she shot stars into the sky. So maybe those stars build up and let you use stronger moves? Kinda like a pseudo card system from hisou.
Also, in the opening, I also spy Shou, Miko, Seiga, Futo and Unzan -> (Ichiring)! So maybe they are playable!? :]
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Also, in the opening, I also spy Shou, Miko, Seiga, Futo and Unzan -> (Ichiring)! So maybe they are playable!? :]
And Byakuren. Look by Shou.
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Character titles:
Hakurei Reimu - Speaker for the Eight Million Gods
Kirisame Marisa - The Magician Representing Humanity
"Eight Million Gods" is the collective name for all the kami. "Eight million" here means "uncountable", not a real number.
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Interesting that the "faction" Marisa is representing is just the humans. Makes sense though, since I don't see why she'd want to represent any of the religions. I guess she's going to try to prove that humanity can stand on its own. Maybe ZUN'll even address all those hints of her potentially becoming a youkai in UFO too.
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and Alice is playable as "The Magician Who Isn't Representing Humanity"
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Or Marisa's seeking life-extension techniques from Kasen.
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Dat Colorful Path remix.
This x infinity.
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KOed Marisa just floating in mid-air made me laugh.
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An important detail in the intro. The blue beast underneath Shou has horns, and 3 eyes on its back. It's very likely a hakutaku. (See English Wikipedia for description (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_Ze), Japanese Wikipedia for images (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%99%BD%E6%BE%A4))
Keine almost confirmed.
Oh, there are also oni and kappa in the intro, but we can safely presume them to be generic stand-ins for evil forces. Hakutaku though, is an oddly specific creature of good fortune. It doesn't belong here... unless it means something.
EDIT:
The humans are dancing the "eejanaika" dance, and talismans are raining from the sky, which you should have already known, if you've spent any time looking up the game's backstory.
The scene of humans being massacred by oni is probably inspired by the traditional art genre of jigoku-hen - depictions of hell.
The muscular gray spirit near Futo, I have no idea. My guess is, it's a generic Taoist steward spirit, summoned by hermits to perform various minor tasks that require mythical strength, such as tying up a defeated youkai, or carrying a relic that weighs 100 ton, typically a 黄巾力士 "yellow-turbaned musclemen" in classical Chinese novels.
...With that said, its pose look familiar. It's some Buddhist thing I've seen.
Ideas others have contributed:
The "evil dragon" Shou is fighting is "Itsumade" a.k.a. "Till When", a.k.a. the strange bird that Hiroari shot (see the image here (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BB%A5%E6%B4%A5%E7%9C%9F%E5%A4%A9) for comparison). The story of Hiroari is modeled after the shooting of Nue, and the bow in both stories are the same one, but strictly-speaking, Itsumade is not Nue.
The river at the beginning is Sanzu River. It's written on the milestone beside it, and there's a soul floating above it. The mountain is Youkai Mountain, notice how the "clouds" have faces, beaks and a fan - they are tengu.
The lone monk with a hat might be Yuyuko's father. The nun walking with a stick might be a reference to Byakuren's past life. The child underneath Shou might be Akyuu.
You can see what might be a dragon's tail near Reimu. "Like a dragon, you can only see either its head or its tail."
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"Eight Million Gods" is the collective name for all the kami. "Eight million" here means "uncountable", not a real number.
Which also reminds me of Ran's "Eighty Million Holy Boards" spellcard. Interesting tidbit.
Though the IaMP declaration system really puts me off, I'll play this solely because of Miko. Wonder how she'll play. If she doesn't use the Shichi-Sei Ken I'll be extremely disappointed.
Aside from the fact that Miko will be in it though, for me, this is a pretty generic fighter, so what I'm mostly looking forward to is the story and especially the music (I really wonder if they'll make a Small Desire's Starry Sky remix for this (Though seeing as Desire Drive is more popular, it's probably getting it's own remix instead) and of course, True Administrator, Cosmic Mind is another one I'm looking forward to.)
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Aside from the fact that Miko will be in it though, for me, this is a pretty generic fighter,
Dunno man. Just thinking of all the stuff we have to keep in mind with this being a floaty, three plane fighter sorta puts my head in a tizzy. Corner combos, wall slam combos, ceiling combos, spacing, neutral, zoning, all of that.
Just from looking at Marisa's moveset from that trailer, she can probably 6-way mixup after a knockdown. Knockdown into that star rain move, then she could seriously just use that divekick/broom thing for an ambiguous crossup. Depending on how the above/below/same plane works with blocking, that could be even scarier. Stuff like that seems like it will make the game pretty interesting; I'm pretty hyped for it now myself, and you can see for yourself how cynical I was about it beforehand. I don't really think it looks generic at all.
Reminds me that I'm interested in how they're going to handle blocking.
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Oh right, I feel so stupid for not realizing earlier.
That gray spirit is "Agyō", the personification of the open-mouthed part of the mystical syllable "aum". Along with "Ungyō", the personification of the closed-mouthed part, they are the two angry Vajradhara (Kongōrikishi in Japanese) gate guardians of Buddhist temples. The Japanese are used to call them Niō, "the Humane Kings", or "the Two Kings".
It is possible that they are just using the pose of Agyō for a generic Taoist muscleman spirit, though.
See:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%87%91%E5%89%9B%E5%8A%9B%E5%A3%AB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-un
By the way, the reason the lone monk is speculated to be Saigyouji is because he's standing near a dead tree and Japanese tombs.
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"Eight Million Gods" is the collective name for all the kami. "Eight million" here means "uncountable", not a real number.
So stop translating it as "eight million" if it doesn't actually mean "eight million"
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Hey, to pick a precedent worse than "eight million", King James' Bible translated "three and four times" literally, which means "many times" in Hebrew, even when it only sounds like "a few times" to English ears.
Of course that's not a fair comparison, since KJV Bible prioritized textual accurancy above anything else. But "eight million" is also much less confusing.
By your logic, many things called "eight" or "nine" in Chinese / Japanese should also be translated as "many" or "all", because that's the meaning of "eight" or "nine" here. As a casual fan of linguistics, I find such language flavors worth preserving, especially and more importantly, when it can be easily understood by English speakers.
I also chose to not translate it as literally as "Speaker for the Eight Million", since not clarifying it as "gods", now that would actually confuse people.
But OK, "Speaker for the Milliard Gods" then it is.
Observations I received:
If the long-haired woman really is Kaguya, then the man near her should be Iwakasa, the man Mokou killed.
Since that gray figure is Nio, the tree beside him might be a peach tree. They together signify heaven.
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I'll say the chances of Byakuren, Miko, and Sanae appearing are pretty high. The picture also gives reason to believe that Shou and Futo to be playable.
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Since that gray figure is Nio, the tree beside him might be a peach tree. They together signify heaven.
So there is the possibility that Tenshi will making another appearance.
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So I've been giving the trailer some inspection and I've found some things.
I'm still not ENTIRELY sure how the percentages work but from what I can tell they affect a character's defense rate. Check out the combo Marisa gets hit with at 1:03 and 1:51. The first time it does 2300 with one of the amulets missing completely, but the second time it only does 1900. The first combo hits when Marisa's approval is at 5%, and the second hits with a 19% approval. (In comparison Reimu's approval has actually INCREASED so it's probably not responsible for the drop in damage.)
Spellcards being comboable after stun for decent damage seems scary, especially since we already have day -10 stun combos. :V
Danmaku attacks use up the magic gauge on the bottom, going from blue to red. A red gauge doesn't mean you can't use danmaku - at 1:26 Marisa throws stars even with a full red bar. However, when you block the red portion of your meter is drained away. (It refills over time when unusued, I assume.)
So, the big question is approval. How to you get it? From what I've seen the system looks like this:
POSITIVE APPROVAL:
-Landing the first strike
-Landing combos
-Counter hits (large boost)
-Aggressive play? Not sure about this, but Marisa gains approval at 1:27 when she dashes in
-Declaring (5% guaranteed)
NEGATIVE APPROVAL:
-Getting hit first
-Eating a counter
-Passive play? (See Reimu at 1:21)
-Opponent's declaration
Voters seem to be hard-headed, too. When they make a vote it's permanent, which means if you already have some negative votes it's hard to work back (See how much easier Marisa gains meter compared to Reimu after one first-strike and a counter).
That's all I've got for now, though there's one obvious thing to bring up...of all the people who usually frequent Reimu's shrine, where's Suika?
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That's all I've got for now, though there's one obvious thing to bring up...of all the people who usually frequent Reimu's shrine, where's Suika?
Probably still in heaven. She really only hung around Reimu's shrine during IaMP.
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Confirming Rou's findings.
edit: Not sure if that was a stun combo or a knockdown, and Marisa just took the Dream Seal to the face when she got back up. It seems like you can't hurt people during dizzy.
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You guys sure it was when she got back up? The combo counter didn't go back to zero when Reimu used Fantasy Seal.
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Missed that. And...yeah that's scary.
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Not sure if that was a stun combo or a knockdown, and Marisa just took the Dream Seal to the face when she got back up. It seems like you can't hurt people during dizzy.
I'm not quite sure she got back up. I have a hunch that you're not safe from specials when you're down/stunned. Another possibility could be that if a special would be fatal, it will still hit stunned or not. Kinda like a pseudo fatality.
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Regarding the playable characters that might appear in the demo, how many characters appeared in the Demo of SWR? (And IaMP and Soku, for that matter?)
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I really, really, really want to see Reimu's shine god be in a game.
IT'S MIMA.
I've always wanted to see Reimu's god, she it would probably be short-tempered.
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Regarding the playable characters that might appear in the demo, how many characters appeared in the Demo of SWR? (And IaMP and Soku, for that matter?)
I think it was 4 characters in the demos.
-
personal opinions, etc.
- the "dizzied" state seems to me like the equivalent to knocked-down states in other fighting games; I think that (if there's already damage scaling in combos) being comboed while knocked down wouldn't be much of an issue as people think, especially if there's either damage penalty on knocked-down characters (some fighting games have these), guts (the less health the character has, more damage is reduced) or less untech time (compared to non-off-the-ground combos
- as for the complaints about IaMP's declaration mechanic, first, it's very possible to deplete the opponent's hp before needing to declare (even if the opponent has declared), as long as you create enough opportunities to damage your opponent (I find the game fun even if I don't do bnbs consistently; the bullet-melee-graze mechanic compensates for that, at least for me), and has good enough positioning (sure, someone who knows bnbs will have to create less attack opportunities than someone who doesn't, but I think people worry too much about not being able to combo, even against opponents on the same level as themselves). Second, as one becomes more familiar with the opportunities for declaring, the "declaration minigame" becomes more fun; just try to gauge your opponent's damage potential (for example, if you know he/she doesn't do a bnb that would kill you, you can save your declaration for later than you would have to) and try to avoid doing a raw declaration (instead, try to plan ahead and knock your opponent down or hit him/her somewhere on the screen that gives you enough distance/time to declare; see if your opponent has a fast bullet or super, etc..)
- maybe there's more to "character building" than just super selection (even though super selection does change a character's gameplay considerably); lack of decks may just mean that you don't fill the card hands as you fill the super gauge (like in SWR/Soku)
- liked the trailer, however I'd like to see some more danmaku -- hope that it doesn't get the "story-mode only" treatment. Also there's an apparent lack of graze-melee-bullet RPS.
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There's probably an equivalent of OTG moves in the game.
Marisa only had a little bit of life left when she got hit, so it might not do that much damage.
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Regarding the playable characters that might appear in the demo, how many characters appeared in the Demo of SWR? (And IaMP and Soku, for that matter?)
4 in all of them.
IaMP had Reimu, Marisa, Alice, and Youmu I believe
SWR had Reimu, Marisa, Alice, and Aya
Dunno if UNL had one
So by this pattern it's safe to assume that it'll most likely be Reimu, Marisa, Alice, some fourth popular character :V
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So by this pattern it's safe to assume that it'll most likely be Reimu, Marisa, Alice, some fourth popular character :V
Alice might not be in this time, though.
...Oh god.
(http://i.imgur.com/o91Lp.png)
Why does the strong possibility of Alice not being in the game make me so uncomfortable
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Alice might not be in this time, though.
...Oh god.
(http://i.imgur.com/o91Lp.png)
Why does the strong possibility of Alice not being in the game make me so uncomfortable
Alice is the semifinal boss... She went on rampage as no one remembers Shinki.
Also as this game is more like teh STGs, there will be Extra mode where we fight Mima.
In that mode Mima will reclaim her position as the true goddess of Hakurei.
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Hey, to pick a precedent worse than "eight million", King James' Bible translated "three and four times" literally, which means "many times" in Hebrew, even when it only sounds like "a few times" to English ears.
Of course that's not a fair comparison, since KJV Bible prioritized textual accurancy above anything else. But "eight million" is also much less confusing.
By your logic, many things called "eight" or "nine" in Chinese / Japanese should also be translated as "many" or "all", because that's the meaning of "eight" or "nine" here. As a casual fan of linguistics, I find such language flavors worth preserving, especially and more importantly, when it can be easily understood by English speakers.
I also chose to not translate it as literally as "Speaker for the Eight Million", since not clarifying it as "gods", now that would actually confuse people.
But OK, "Speaker for the Milliard Gods" then it is.
Observations I received:
If the long-haired woman really is Kaguya, then the man near her should be Iwakasa, the man Mokou killed.
Since that gray figure is Nio, the tree beside him might be a peach tree. They together signify heaven.
It's not even pronounced the same way as "Eight Million". It's a completely separate word that happens to be spelled the same for some vaguely interesting linguistic reasons. However, because it means something completely different, such a translation is actually wrong. I usually see it translated as "The Myriad Gods" because "yaoyoruzu" happens to mean "myriad". That's like... not even a hard translation.
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I wonder whether there'll be extra-mode.
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I wonder what faction Yuuka will be representing.
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Yuuka represents the "killyoudead" faction.
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Yuuka represents the "killyoudead" faction.
Nah... She has learnt a lesson from Medi and thus formed the "Sunflower Liberation Army".
Now she is spreading the wonderfull message of not to touch her sunflowers.
BTW: Wriggle is the high priestess of SLA.
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Reimu, Marisa, Byakuren, and Miko in the demo will be nice. If the roster really is determined by the plot, then Alice will most likely get the boot, as I don't see her fitting into the plot, unless it involves her wanting to get people to remember Shinki, but we all know that has no chance of happening.
BTW, am I the only one here hoping that those two fairy maids will have names and become actual characters, even if minor ones?
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It's not even pronounced the same way as "Eight Million". It's a completely separate word that happens to be spelled the same for some vaguely interesting linguistic reasons. However, because it means something completely different, such a translation is actually wrong. I usually see it translated as "The Myriad Gods" because "yaoyoruzu" happens to mean "myriad". That's like... not even a hard translation.
You've learnt about on-yomi (pronouncing kanji using a sound originating from medieval Chinese) and kun-yomi (pronouncing with the equivalent "native" Japanese word), right?
Happyaku-man is on-yomi, and ya-o-yorozu is kun-yomi. Just look up "yorozu", and think about the "ya" in 3 certain young Touhou girls' names.
About whether it's a good idea to translate "eight million", here's a more fitting example:
Chinese, Japanese, and a few other languages have the word "Ten Thousand Things" i.e. "everything there is". For several times I've seen translations of Chinese text, or Westerner-penned fiction that is going for a Chinese flavor, use "Ten Thousand Things" instead of "everything in the world". This makes me, a native Chinese speaker, feel rather awkward, but apparently those Western writers find it to be good lingustic color.
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Alice
get the boot
Tee hee.
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It'd be great to see Byakuren's superhuman Physical abilities to actually be used, other than in her own narcissistic spell card, of course. I'm also curious to see how Miko would play. I can't think of many styles for her other than "use object in hand and hit stuff". Maybe she'd be similar to Sanae and have summons? (Suwako/Kanako -> Futo/Tojiko, based on Chaotic Dance)
As for Alice, she'd only be involved if Marisa gets her to be involved.
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I'm pretty sure Sanae will be there, representing Team Moriya, as one of the four characters unveiled in the demo. I'm willing to bet that the other plot-important characters will be saved for later, and the fourth character will probably be like one of those characters in SWR who's only there for fanservice.
I'm going to place my bet on Kogasa. :P
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I'm pretty sure Sanae will be there, representing Team Moriya, as one of the four characters unveiled in the demo. I'm willing to bet that the other plot-important characters will be saved for later, and the fourth character will probably be like one of those characters in SWR who's only there for fanservice.
I'm going to place my bet on Kogasa. :P
Nooooooo, Koishi needs to be the fanservice~ I can actually picture her wondering into a random fight.
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Nooooooo, Koishi needs to be the fanservice~ I can actually picture her wondering into a random fight.
Worst part is that she could proabably walk obliviously into a fight and likely still destroy everyone else :P
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Or maybe it'll be Kasen. Her name starts with a K too.
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You've learnt about on-yomi (pronouncing kanji using a sound originating from medieval Chinese) and kun-yomi (pronouncing with the equivalent "native" Japanese word), right?
Happyaku-man is on-yomi, and ya-o-yorozu is kun-yomi. Just look up "yorozu", and think about the "ya" in 3 certain young Touhou girls' names.
About whether it's a good idea to translate "eight million", here's a more fitting example:
Chinese, Japanese, and a few other languages have the word "Ten Thousand Things" i.e. "everything there is". For several times I've seen translations of Chinese text, or Westerner-penned fiction that is going for a Chinese flavor, use "Ten Thousand Things" instead of "everything in the world". This makes me, a native Chinese speaker, feel rather awkward, but apparently those Western writers find it to be good lingustic color.
I understand that its pronunciation isn't completely random or anything, but that's also never how a Japanese person would say "8 million". There is no linguistic confusion.
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(Sorry for mistakenly posting an unfinished message. This has been fixed.)
It's not "not random", it's literally "eight million" in "native" Japanese.
"Ya" as the number "eight" is still in daily usage (hitotsu, futatsu, mitsu... yattsu). "Ya-o" as "eight hundred" can be seen in the everyday word 八百屋 yaoya (literally "house of eight hundred"), meaning "greengrocer, seller of vegetables and fruits". "Yorozu" (ten thousand) is no longer in common usage, but just as any sufficiently educated English speaker knows the words "thee" "thou" "ye", a Japanese speaker can recognize "yorozu".
I think I can now return to the argument that if 万物 can be translated by professional scholars and writers as "Ten Thousand Things", then "ya-o-yorozu no kami" can be translated as "Eight Million Gods".
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Nooooooo, Koishi needs to be the fanservice~ I can actually picture her wondering into a random fight.
To be honest, I'm not sure how Koishi is supposed to function in a battle/goal/storyline that's based significantly on audience appeal. If anything, she seems kinda like its anti-thesis...
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To be honest, I'm not sure how Koishi is supposed to function in a battle/goal/storyline that's based significantly on audience appeal. If anything, she seems kinda like its anti-thesis...
Koishi is the new Suwako?
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Koishi is the new Suwako?
Suwako is still involved in 12.3's plot, even if not having her own story mode, unless you meant something else...
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Koishi is the new Suwako?
I... don't understand the analogy here ^^;
What I'm saying is that Koishi by nature is a youkai that isn't noticed by anyone. So how is she supposed to win the hearts and minds and faith of the human village (the storyline of Hopeless Masquerade, to the point where it's a game mechanic) when no one knows she's there in the first place?
Although I suppose that could be her story. IE, by winning the faith of human beings, they all start acknowledging that she exists. Seems a bit... out there to me, though.
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I think no one is serious here xD Koishi just seems funny in perspective because unlike any factions, she wouldn't even have a goal; She'd waltz in, beat up people and happily walk away while twirling.
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She'd waltz in, beat up people and happily walk away while twirling.
Ikari, even with Touhou having an actual plot arc now, I don't think you realize how little that narrows it down. :V
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Koishi can be the walking irony of the game :V
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Ikari, even with Touhou having an actual plot arc now, I don't think you realize how little that narrows it down. :V
Pfffff, the twirling makes her all unique.
Koishi can be the walking irony of the game :V
*twirling irony.
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Koishi is the new Suwako?
I... don't understand the analogy here ^^;
Suwako uses Confusion Fu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConfusionFu), except that it's confusing even to the person controlling her.
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It's just a stance system. ::)
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Touhou SHINKIrou
Shinkirou = Mirage
Mirage = Illusion
Legendary Illusion ~ Infinite Being
Go wild, gentlemen.
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Go wild, gentlemen.
Challenge accepted!
Touhou 13.5
1 + 3 + 5 = 9
Dammit Cirno
-
Touhou SHINKIrou
Shinkirou = Mirage
Mirage = Illusion
Legendary Illusion ~ Infinite Being
Go wild, gentlemen.
This proves it all... New Year has been saved.
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Touhou SHINKIrou
Shinkirou = Mirage
Mirage = Illusion
Legendary Illusion ~ Infinite Being
Go wild, gentlemen.
Legendary Illusion ~ Infinite Being
the game has infinite combos
there :D
(I noticed that there was a video showcasing the games that would be in the C83, and there wasn't a trailer for 13.5. Hopefully that video doesn't showcase all of the games.)
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Touhou SHINKIrou
Shinkirou = Mirage
Mirage = Illusion
Legendary Illusion ~ Infinite Being
Go wild, gentlemen.
Welcome to the first day this game got revealed.
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heart skipped for a moment.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=32345122
fake. but so close. sooo close.
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heart skipped for a moment.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=32345122
fake. but so close. sooo close.
Oh hey heart, how are you doing? Uh, why aren't you answering me? Oh, right!
BECAUSE YOU'RE BROKEN.
-
Welcome to the first day this game got revealed.
They're still going to say it. Over and over again until the game actually comes out and proves them right or wrong.
I think no one is serious here xD Koishi just seems funny in perspective because unlike any factions, she wouldn't even have a goal; She'd waltz in, beat up people and happily walk away while twirling.
I wish. She'd actually be a fun character to play. I wonder how her subconscious powers would be implemented if she was in.
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Arakune invisibility, unblockables, mirages, lots of stuff to work with.
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Koishi's ending would probably go something like
And the humans of the human village cheered for this unknown youkai! They applauded and whistled at the amazing being, finally coming to a revelation that this was the philosophical answer to their questions all along! The only problem was they didn't know who or what they were cheering for. Days passed, and soon the human village was filled with discussions and whispers of "What were we cheering about, again?" It came to be known as "That event where everyone thought there was an event, but no one can remember what it was."
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Welcome to the first day this game got revealed.
I know that she won't appear, sir. :V
Koishi's ending would probably go something like And the humans of the human village cheered for this unknown youkai! They applauded and whistled at the amazing being, finally coming to a revelation that this was the philosophical answer to their questions all along! The only problem was they didn't know who or what they were cheering for. Days passed, and soon the human village was filled with discussions and whispers of "What were we cheering about, again?" It came to be known as "That event where everyone thought there was an event, but no one can remember what it was."
You're the most awesome person ever.
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Why does that Koishi ending actually sound like something that would happen in a Touhou game? :V
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Subconsciously we all want Koishi in a fighter
my plan is working out perfectly :3
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Tasofro has updated the HM site with recommended system specs for the demo.
Important items:
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz and above, or equivalent
RAM: 1 GB and above
Video card: Shader 2.0, VRAM 512 MB and above (onboard chip not guaranteed to work)
Resolution: 1280*720
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Important items:
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz and above, or equivalent
And I guess I'm out, just as expected :( in fact, I should be thankful to the universe for letting me play every Touhou game so far with this tiny little and ancient Duron 1600, and with his best buddy the GeForce 6200.
That's quite a jump in minimum specifications from SWR/12.3, though. I thought the doujin scene was mostly friendly to old hardware, and then things like this happen.
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Brainwave here
Part of the game's mechanics supposedly involves winning over the crowd. Aside from the religious factions, I just thought of two additional groups that'd fit that bill; The Prismrivers and Choujuu Gigaku.
Perhaps maybe Lyrica and Mystia are 13.5 bound....
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And I guess I'm out, just as expected :( in fact, I should be thankful to the universe for letting me play every Touhou game so far with this tiny little and ancient Duron 1600, and with his best buddy the GeForce 6200.
That's quite a jump in minimum specifications from SWR/12.3, though. I thought the doujin scene was mostly friendly to old hardware, and then things like this happen.
If those are indeed recommended and not minimum specs you might still be in luck, especially since full releases are often (but not always) better optimized than betas/demos. You're right though, those specs are a bit steeper than what I'd have called. Just have to try it individually down the line, I guess.
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The only sticking point in specs for me is the CPU...I only have 2.3 GHz on my laptop. Though the family computer has 3.10 so I could use that if it came to it.
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I can just barely run Hisoutensoku on this pathetic excuse of a computer... Looks like I might have to miss out on HM :ohdear:
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Welp, I have little delusions with AMD Athlon XP 1700+, 1GB Ram and Radeon X1650 AGP 512 MB VRAM. Still, it would be really, really nice of them to include the frameskip option from Soku, which propably would be enough for the game to be at least playable.
Then again, considering Grief Syndrome doesn't even boot up , telling me it has encountered a problem and needs to close :ohdear: ... Though the config tool does exactly the same thing, so maybe it's a program error, not a specs related one.
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Then again, considering Grief Syndrome doesn't even boot up , telling me it has encountered a problem and needs to close :ohdear: ... Though the config tool does exactly the same thing, so maybe it's a program error, not a specs related one.
Most likely...
Personally I had problems with Dynamarisa: menus run with low fps and it took nearly a 30 minutes to load a single level.
Then I tried running the game with my other computer and there were no problems (though there should have been as
this other computer is much older and barely met the requirements).
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I wonder whether we see Meiling in 13.5... She might have nothing to do with religion, but she could fight for being recognized...
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Meiling will be the final boss when
it's revealed that she's a dragon.
And Mima, the god of the Hakurei shrine
can be the extra boss.
:P
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Meiling will be the final boss when it's revealed that she's a dragon.
And Mima, the god of the Hakurei shrine
can be the extra boss.
:P
I like this idea... Now make it happen.
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Meiling will be the final boss when it's revealed that she's a dragon.
And Mima, the god of the Hakurei shrine
can be the extra boss.
:P
Don't mean to burst your bubble, but fighting games don't have extra stages... Unless Mima breaks that trend, cuz she's Mima... :V
But in all seriousness...
I wonder whether we see Meiling in 13.5... She might have nothing to do with religion, but she could fight for being recognized...
If Koishi were to appear in the game, I would think that she would be the one fighting for getting recognized. After SA's events, she did start to show an interest in people again after meeting Reimu and Marisa... It could culminate in this!
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Don't mean to burst your bubble, but fighting games don't have extra stages... Unless Mima breaks that trend, cuz she's Mima... :V
Well, it's an all-new fighting game engine so I figured it could buck the trend...
Alternatively, one could be the penultimate boss while the other is the final boss, kinda like Yukari + Suika or Iku + Tenshi (in most routes).
The dragon likes her worship too, you know?
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The dragon likes her worship too, you know?
I was actually thinking of this, how likely would it be for Iku to make a comeback in this game since she's the Dragon's spokesperson and this is a Religious battle? The Dragon, being Gensokyo's Deity, should also live off of Faith, no?
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I was actually thinking of this, how likely would it be for Iku to make a comeback in this game since she's the Dragon's spokesperson and this is a Religious battle? The Dragon, being Gensokyo's Deity, should also live off of Faith, no?
I'm kinda guessing here, but I think the diety of gensokyo would have the ability to base his existence on something a little more reliable than faith. Gensokyo would essentially fall into a horrible state of anarchy if the dragons were to disappear because they lost too much faith. :V
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wait just curious but which day in Comiket is 13.5 coming out again? was it the 31st?
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I think Touhou-related things come out at the second day.
It's December 30th.
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Sungho's right, it's on the 30th.
Two (almost one, at this rate) more days until the trial of Hopeless Masquerade and the fangame Phantasmal Summoners. So excited~!
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I'm kinda guessing here, but I think the diety of gensokyo would have the ability to base his existence on something a little more reliable than faith. Gensokyo would essentially fall into a horrible state of anarchy if the dragons were to disappear because they lost too much faith. :V
True, but at the same time I remember somewhere it was mentioned that there was a huge Dragon Statue in the middle of the Human Village and people constantly prayed at it.
I might be wrong though, I don't remember where I got this information.
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It's 2 PM on the 29th there now, so just under a day until doors open, with information leaking out not very long after. After all there were people beating TD and drawing art the morning of and we knew all there was to know by the afternoon.
True, but at the same time I remember somewhere it was mentioned that there was a huge Dragon Statue in the middle of the Human Village and people constantly prayed at it.
I might be wrong though, I don't remember where I got this information.
It's in PMiSS.
Dragon is everything Gensokyo is based on. The Dragon and creation myth just "is". It's more than a state religion. It's a fact of life, as far as anyone is concerned, I imagine. Everyone prays to Dragon already. Whether he has a representative or not in this duel, faith in him won't falter or increase. He doesn't need faith, or converts, but the other upstarts certainly do.
Besides, if there's someone to best represent faith in Dragon and faith in Gensokyo, as a result, it's not Iku. It's Reimu, no matter what her title here or anyone in Gensokyo says.
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Don't mean to burst your bubble, but fighting games don't have extra stages... Unless Mima breaks that trend, cuz she's Mima... :V
Sugoi! Arcana Heart 2? Mimacelsia?
:p
(not exactly a proper Extra Stage, though, as in, one long stage with a long boss fight instead of a 5/6 stage run)
or, if she's not an extra boss fight, or an extra stage fight, secret playable character, she can still be a score attack boss :p
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Besides, if there's someone to best represent faith in Dragon and faith in Gensokyo, as a result, it's not Iku. It's Reimu, no matter what her title here or anyone in Gensokyo says.
No, it's Iku, Iku is a direct emissary of the Dragon. Reimu has nothing to do with it except it last being seen when the Hakurei Barrier was made.
Also, Iku could be involved to stop people's faith leaving the dragon. Stop people converting.
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Pretty sure there's a line somewhere where either Yukari or a youkai says it doesn't matter how much faith Reimu has, as long as the barrier holds. Actually, maybe it was in a SWR ending in regards to the shrine being destroyed over and over. The only one who's really annoyed about the lack of faith in the Hakurei Shrine is Reimu and the Hakurei shrine god (the latter being actually stated in an intro to a game somewhere. It's cited in the wiki). I thus highly doubt the dragon would be represented by Reimu.
Also, I never said the dragon NEEDED faith. Course, there's nothing to prove it likes its worship too, admittingly, but I'm about as interested in proving that statement as I am in proving Meiling is a dragon or Mima is the Hakurei shrine god. IE, not very.
.
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but I'm about as interested in proving that statement as I am in proving Meiling is a dragon or Mima is the Hakurei shrine god. IE, not very.
.
Why Mima is the goddess of Hakurei:
Originally, she is sealed in the hokora attached to the shrine, but she manages to repeatedly break free of the seal.
...
Apparently, she is quite knowledgeable about the past of the Hakurei Shrine, even down to knowing exactly what the function of the Yin-Yang Orbs is. In her profiles, she is described as being a "deity-like existence" of the shrine
...
She is like the deity (evil deity) of the Shrine by now, but her personality is more human-ish than human.
But to be realistic... Yes, Mima won't be coming back and is not related to the Hakurei deity.
-
No, it's Iku, Iku is a direct emissary of the Dragon.
She's a Messenger of the Dragon Palace (aka an oarfish). That's something completely different.
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Hey all, I'm opening up #touhouwiki on irc.ppirc.net as HM demo spoiler/discussion zone, also to help update HM wiki articles as fast as possible. Please join~
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Just the best character confirmed for the demo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7AZOC.jpg)
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Nice Ichirin.
-
Just the best character confirmed for the demo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7AZOC.jpg)
JOYOUS DAY
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http://whereismynewtouhou.info/ (http://whereismynewtouhou.info/) :V
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Just the best character confirmed for the demo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7AZOC.jpg)
Fuck.
Yes.
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Just the best character confirmed for the demo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7AZOC.jpg)
This means only one thing!
UNZAN BROFISTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!
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RESOUNDING APPROVAL.
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On the day I will be able to get my hands on the demo, the prophecy shall become true!
It shall rain brofists.
-
I'm looking forward to watching the players who are really good at fighting games post videos once the full version comes out. Though I'll have fun with it too despite my clumsiness at the fighting genre (I still love to play them).
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Just the best character confirmed for the demo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7AZOC.jpg)
Some varying levels of OH GOD WANT SO MUCH.
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Dragon is everything Gensokyo is based on. The Dragon and creation myth just "is". It's more than a state religion. It's a fact of life, as far as anyone is concerned, I imagine. Everyone prays to Dragon already. Whether he has a representative or not in this duel, faith in him won't falter or increase. He doesn't need faith, or converts, but the other upstarts certainly do.
Besides, if there's someone to best represent faith in Dragon and faith in Gensokyo, as a result, it's not Iku. It's Reimu, no matter what her title here or anyone in Gensokyo says.
No, if the Dragon god was a religion, which I don't believe it is, Iku would represent it. Reimu already has a god of sorts, but she doesn't even worship that. Reimu is more likely to fight the Dragon god than to worship it.
Also, not everyone prays to the Dragon god, it was pretty clear that the only reason why people pray to that statue was because of its weather gimmick.
She's a Messenger of the Dragon Palace (aka an oarfish). That's something completely different.
She works for the Dragon god. She would be the most likely candidate if worshipping the Dragon god was a religion, which I don't think it is.
Why Mima is the goddess of Hakurei:
Yukari knows far more about gods and the Hakurei shrine than Mima. You could actually see Yukari teaching Reimu about gods and the like.
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BROFISTS. Joyous day indeed.
The fourth character will probably be a taoist. Tojiko?
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(http://i.imgur.com/HA8gU.jpg)
Yeah, yeah I know I'm late.
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If Youmu isn't in...
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c54758404e6aa7d39f724747f9bd9732/tumblr_mewn7vEEhO1rm62h8o2_500.jpg)
But SHE WILL MAKE IT!!!
...Somehow!
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I wanted to hijack and clarify what I said before the flood comes. Admittedly it is a whole lot of speculation, but my point wasn't about Reimu or rather the Hakurei's personal position and relation with the Dragon. Yes, Iku is technically closer, working for the Palace and all, but it's rather about who embodies what. It's who is ultimately best suited to represent Dragon and Gensokyo, if not in official stance, then in spirit.
Gensokyo needs Dragon and the Hakurei Barrier, which likely couldn't have been formed without Dragon. Gensokyo needs the Barrier which needed Dragon, to last. Gensokyo and the Barrier are essentially the Dragon's whim, its existence, with a few others, and its lasting legacy, Gensokyo, the Barrier, the Dragon, it's essentially all as one. And whatever the Hakurei does and their duties entail, they're dedicated to the lasting of the Barrier, and so come to embody Gensokyo and the Dragon's legacy itself.
Also, yeah, I doubt the Dragon cares about faith, because like I said, there's no faith to be gained or lost, necessarily. As far as anyone is concerned, it's fact. Is there any doubt the Founding Fathers formed the USA? Unless you're a conspiracy nut, no, not really. The belief, faith, or rather the truth that Dragon had some huge hand in forming Gensokyo and owes its existence to him wouldn't be altered by someone also choosing to follow Reimu or Byakuren or whoever. As I said, it just "is", no matter what.
Now back to the demo release. Ichirin's new costume is pretty damn cool. She was on my wantlist, so I'm looking forward to playing as her. Too bad I likely won't be able to run the thing until an upgrade of some kind.
-
Those are some serious eyelashes.
I guess it will sky rocket Ichirin's popularity if she is to be the mouthpiece of Myouren.
No longer simply Unzan's hitbox.
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Those are some serious eyelashes.
...I thought she had giant brows, but you're right, those ARE eyelashes. Uuuugh, what kind of monstrosity is this!? Dx
Thanks god her costume is awesome. Alternate costumes are something that happens very very rarely in Touhou.
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http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv120797512
Live Stream of 13.5
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Wow, she really blinged out her outfit.
Ichirin is one of those characters I wasn't expecting to be in (what with her mostly being a hitbox) yet was hoping she would be (due to all the potential with Unzan). Great to see her in!
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Only 3 characters in the demo
Unzan looks awesome in action.
-
Sweet...watching this!
-
Minamitsu and Nazrin were in the background of the Palanquin ship. So they're probably not playable. Not too surprising, though I was expecting Nazrin to be an assist for Shou or something.
-
Orig Stream higher Quality: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv120798893
GET IN HERE!
-
Suddenly I'm getting 'new main character' vibes from Ichirin. :V
-
Heh, Merlin and Lily White are flying above the ship as well. Interesting.
EDIT: Make that all the sisters...the other two were blocked when I wrote this.
-
Minamitsu and Nazrin were in the background of the Palanquin ship. So they're probably not playable. Not too surprising, though I was expecting Nazrin to be an assist for Shou or something.
Same with Nue.
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dat unzan
oh yes his spellcards
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dat unzan
oh yes his spellcards
Agree...that looks so cool.
-
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv120797512
Live Stream of 13.5
AND THEN IT HAS BEEN SAID, THIS GUY RIGHT HERE JUST GOT A NICONICO ACCOUNT.
-
aaand it ended
-
AND THEN IT HAS BEEN SAID, THIS GUY RIGHT HERE JUST GOT A NICONICO ACCOUNT.
aaand it ended
Oh god, this is so sad. :c
-
Damn it, I only got to watch 3 minutes of it.
Oh well, I may not have seen the spellcards, I don't really mind, as there is only one thing left to say;
ROCKET PAWNCHO.
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AND THEN IT HAS BEEN SAID, THIS GUY RIGHT HERE JUST GOT A NICONICO ACCOUNT.
I actually ran out a few hours ago to make sure mine was connected (I haven't been on Nico Nico since getting my new computer so my logins weren't there) since I remember the big fan stream just after Ten Desires came out (I was a lurker on the forums then).
-
blah blah livestream ended blah blah
oh darn. there goes the only reason i got an account.
Was worth it atleast. Now I know what game I am totally going to get in the future :*
-
They're back up: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv120800635
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Yeah! Thanks for the heads up!
-
SUPER UNZAN MODE
-
SUPER UNZAN MODE
SO MUCH WIN!!!!! SO MUCH FUCKING WIN!!!!
-
They're back up: http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv120800635
Aaaand down it goes.
-
Those were some awesome supers...you got Giant!Unzan, Marisa broom surfing and Reimu just unleashing pure fury.
-
Dem badass portraits. (http://i.imgur.com/DOoq1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aMKhZ.gif)
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(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnzlt0WDyk1qfmv01.bmp)
Getting a strong Jojo vibe.
-
Haha, you're not the only one! :V
Liking the particle effects and attacks; gameplay gives me a few doubts but I'll save that issue for later when a playable demo arrives to the general public.
-
nevermind, just the record from earlier is now viewable, my bad
-
Well, I missed the streams. Guess that's what I get for playing Tales of Graces all day... On a more positive note, ICHIRIN! I may have said this before, but the art style i nthis game is lovely. Ichirin also loos so good. Can't wait for the demo :L
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Dem badass portraits. (http://i.imgur.com/DOoq1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aMKhZ.gif)
Oh Ichirin looks so cool, kiss the ground poor Miko :P
Also someone knows why there are two bars inside the life bar (a blue and a white one)?
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Also someone knows why there are two bars inside the life bar (a blue and a white one)?
Has to do with the game's appeal system, if I'm not mistaken.
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Fastest Fandom is Fastest (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=32475510)
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Not surprised that it didn't take long for a picture like that to be drawn. Touhou fans are dedicated, after all.
-
Also someone knows why there are two bars inside the life bar (a blue and a white one)?
As I understand it, the white bar is the normal health bar. Inside the white bar is the blue bar, which fills up when you get hit or when you attack, and you can only call supers once the blue bar is full (i.e. when the blue completely overtakes the white).
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Fastest Fandom is Fastest (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=32475510)
The look on her face makes me think that she is saying "Yes! I made it into the roster!"
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So did she eat Yatagarasu too or what?
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So did she eat Yatagarasu too or what?
Wow...I'm not the only one who thought the gem looked like the eye on Okuu's chest in that pic. The actual in-game art makes it loom more like a necklace, though (but the chain blends in well).
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http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv120810457 Stream!
-
Just the best character confirmed for the demo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7AZOC.jpg)
Ichirin? This will be interesting.
-
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv120810457 Stream!
Back to watching and not!sleeping!
-
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
ichiriiiiiiiiin
Also I love her new outfit.
-
turns out that the guy streaming can only stream for 30 minutes at a time and needs to restart his stream after half an hour, so I'd just keep an eye on him for now
-
this game is so confusing what am i doing how do i even fly
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(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9397/sadfhadsfsuadghfiojudsg.png)
It's...
Beautiful....
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HERE GUYS: http://whereismynewtouhou.info/
BYE!~
-
Am so preordering the full version from a doujin store once it's put up. I swear, I can't scream "Take my money!" to ZUN and Tasogare Frontier loud enough!
-
I reckon with the demo out, this thread might hit 1,000 pretty soon.
If any of you fine people feel like crafting a thorough and informative OP about the game to post after this thread is locked comes, by all means have it in mind.
-
(http://i49.tinypic.com/1zx33ev.png)
IchiWIN.
-
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz and above, or equivalent
The game runs perfectly smoothly on a Core 2 Quad Q9000 (2 GHz), in WINE no less. It should be fine on computers at or below that specification.
-
And just as expected, it doesn't run here! Trying to open the .exe file just gives me a pretty Windows error, exactly like it did for Grief Syndrome and Satori's game.
Curse you for forgetting about us poor people, Tasofro!
Also, oh god those people in the background look pretty.
-
So far what I can find
Moves are A and B for physical moves and X and Y for projectile
A+B+direction and X+Y+direction give special moves. No hadoken or shoryuken inputs required
The floating system works like this. The middle of the screen is basically the new "ground" and from there you can either dash up or down or forward. No free flying like Soku
Dial A works like before but you options after one is limited
Revolver chain seems to work something like A > B > X/Y > special > dash cancel
Dash cancel only works up or down, not forwards
Combos work something like AAAB Special dash cancel AAAother stuff
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Mugen creators, you've got some stuff to make.
Sooo, more roster speculation? 8D
Kogasa: SURPRISE! Ichirin made it. Why not her?
Shou: Byakuren's subordinate HAS to be in.
Byakuren: Duh.
Seiga: Supporter Taoist, though not necessarily aligned with Miko.
Yoshika: Seiga's minion; they could be together like Carl and Ada from BlazBlue
Futo: Miko's main minion; also must be in
Miko: Also duh.
Aya: She's out looking for a scoop on this religion war. Why WOULDN'T she be in?
Hatate: If not Aya, then her.
Remilia: She's Remilia; she manipulated fate to be significant in this (and make a clone of herself and Sakuya). Plus, I love the Scarlets so this is my biased opinion 8D
Sakuya: If Remilia's in, then so must she. Of course, being in the background reduces this significantly, but still. 8D
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(http://i49.tinypic.com/1zx33ev.png)
IchiWIN.
I had one win animation where Reimu throws one of those giant amulets with her face on it at the screen.
-
Alright I think I've got the character configuration figured out.
Your normals are always the same (bullets and melee), but you get eight special slots, four for each direction combined with X+Y and A+B. You choose which move goes in each slot. The direction is relevant to which direction the move goes, so you'll want some moves in multiple slots to have different angles available for them.
Spellcards go in the same slots as your specials. The first time you use the spellcard command, you'll declare it, like in IaMP. Your life bar needs to be fully blue to do this. The next time you use the command while in declare mode, you'll fire the spellcard.
There are also a few system cards like bombs and such that you can stick in your special slots. It's all a decision of how many different moves you want vs how versatile you want those moves to be. Lots of considerations to be made.
Also, you can have four different "decks" per character, like in soku.
EDIT: Your configuration also does something to that triangle stat meter, though I have no idea what it means.
-
For Reimu and Marisa (Haven't tried Ichirin yet) their default Up+X+Y never triggered for me, I thought it was a spellcard, but it doesn't trigger after I declare.
HOWEVER I do remember one time where my Reimu just turned her back and stayed still with a yellow aura around her, she didn't do anything for about a second after which she had a "huh?" expression and went back to normal, so something tells me their default Up+X+Y moves are some sort of ultimate.
How to trigger it though, I got no clue.
Also yes, Spellcards do ignore knockdown for full damage, the enemy then enter a "red" knockdown state where they are truly immune to everything.
-
EDIT: Your configuration also does something to that triangle stat meter, though I have no idea what it means.
The three corners of the triangle seem to stand for the factions, if I'm not mistaken that's the kanji for "kami", "buddha" and "way" (in the sense of a philosophy) there.
No idea what exactly that does for gameplay though, maybe in certain stages (like Hakurei shrine) or depending on the audience members they are more likely to give approval for moves of a certain faction?
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https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38923366/Idontknow.png
I have no idea how the health system works in this game. I clearly have more pixels in my health bar, so why did I still lose? :(
-
Master Spark does nearly 5k damage jesus shit Marisa :V
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38923366/Idontknow.png
I have no idea how the health system works in this game. I clearly have more pixels in my health bar, so why did I still lose? :(
it seems approval rating determines tiebreakers, not hp
-
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38923366/Idontknow.png
I have no idea how the health system works in this game. I clearly have more pixels in my health bar, so why did I still lose? :(
In a timeout, the highest approval rating wins. Marisa has 13%, and you have 11%.
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The triangle says 'Faith Chart'. The three Kanji should mean Shinto(神道), Buddhism(仏教), and Taoism(道教).
Ichirin's title is 圧倒する妖怪行者, which means 'Overwhelming Youkai ..', something meaning Buddhist Monk, but I can't find a right word 'cause I'm too lazy. Monk might do.
-
In a timeout, the highest approval rating wins. Marisa has 13%, and you have 11%.
Oh well dang it. I guess I know what that percentage means now, at least.
-
Why can't Ichirin
hold all these wallslams
-
ORAORAORAORA and then ORAORAORAORAORAORA SUPER oh man UNZAN you are the best
-
It appears the audience does not approve of trying to declare a spellcard when you don't meet the conditions to actually use it. Quick way to gain negative approval. :V
-
The three corners of the triangle seem to stand for the factions, if I'm not mistaken that's the kanji for "kami", "buddha" and "way" (in the sense of a philosophy) there.
No idea what exactly that does for gameplay though, maybe in certain stages (like Hakurei shrine) or depending on the audience members they are more likely to give approval for moves of a certain faction?
<Faith Chart>
Depending on what is equipped, your character will incline towards [Shinto], [Buddhism], or [Taoism] and will decide her faith.
By satisfying a certain faith you can get special effects, but these are not implemented in the trial version.
From the manual. I guess we'll just have to wait and see!
It appears the audience does not approve of trying to declare a spellcard when you don't meet the conditions to actually use it. Quick way to gain negative approval. :V
It doesn't look like trying and failing to declare a spell card is what lowers your popularity, but passive play is what does, so if you were avoiding your opponent while trying to declare then that was probably the cause.
-
I'll try to make a quick review of what I've seen from the live broadcast.
First, yay ICHIRIN!!! Now is her time to shine! I hope we also get Byakuren and Shou or even more from Byakuren's side(haven't seen Mami yet) and Miko's full team.
As for the gameplay, here's what I got:
- Seems like there's some sort of balancing of heights system between the players, it seems to pull them to the same height or to the middle height(the latter is more likely). This can either make combos easier or harder, since it pulls them a little, but if the attack whiffs it risks getting an overhead because the way they get pulled is like a vertical pendulum motion.
- Aside from normal guard, it also seems to have a barrier or something, I've only seen CPU does it so I don't know how it works or the benefits.
- Grazing is there. Also there seems to be something we can do when we dash at top speed. Haven't seen any though. :ohdear:
- From what I've seen, the timer seems to be really fast(or I'm just enjoying it too much), most of the match I saw ended in a time up or just a few seconds left. I'm afraid this might be a problem in matches between experienced players who know what they're doing.
- A new stage with the Palanquin Ship in the back and the Prismriver Sisters, Lily, Nazrin, Murasa, and Nue as spectators. We can expect different size among the stages since this one seems bigger than the Hakurei Shrine one. Also despite being in the sky we still can do a ground bounce. Also nice 3D effect for the ship.
- An improvement in AI? Or they just haven't got the hang of it.
- This can be either good or bad, but time up win is determined by the appeal percentage, the Yes - No number under the health bar. Better be aggressive and more careful. :derp:
- It seems that only Reimu can teleport at the edge of the screen ala Yukari, and she can also do it with the upper or the lower boundary? :wat: Need more checking,
- Choosing spell card is much like the system in Tenjou no Tempest, one spellcard for each style, with each character having two or more spellcard and one? Last Word.
- There doesn't seem to be a limit of how many times we can declare and use spellcard as long as the HP bar is fully blue. I hope this isn't the case since it can lead to people spamming convenient spellcards. :ohdear:
- There's some kind of "appeal mode" when the appeal reach 100% that need to be declared and the character shines gold and the enemy shines red. During this mode we can use the spellcard like normal and got access to the Last Word.
- For the Last Word, Reimu got Musou Tensei as a counter ala Kenshiro(I love you Tasofro), Marisa got broom surfing spark, Ichirin got Giant Unzan mode. I think the only useful one against boss with super armor is only Ichirin's. We can expect varying effects with each character though. But the Last Word isn't overly powerful, Marisa's Blazing Star is more damaging than her Last Word, albeit harder to combo. So I guess it's more as a flashy move for most characters.
- Comboing after a stun seems like a legit strategy. Some Marisa player can do 6000s with just simple combos that stun and followed with a Master Spark. Though if we drop the combo when hitting a stunned opponent they'll get total invincibility.
- And now, following the main game, the loser side explodes when the match ends. :derp:
Regarding the "Appeal System"
Higher Appeal
- Easier to combo(unsure)
- Faster spirit gauge recovery
- Less spirit depleted when guarding
- Access to Last Word
Lower Appeal
- Slower spirit gauge recovery
- More spirit depleted when guarding
That's all I can get from watching the live. I might be wrong on some parts though, feel free to correct. Really hoping to get this game, also a new costume for each character's would be nice(Ichirin got a really cool one here).
-
First impressions:
- Unzan ORAORAORAORA-
- hooray botched X360 binds
- Renders at a nice 1280 x 720, but it could be more crisp (thanks filtering)
- Smooth animations always welcome, backgrounds chars could use more anims I think
- yay Samurai Shodown-esque rage function
- Controls feel floaty but thanks to the flying nature it fits better than in the previous fighters, in both good and bad ways
- Smash-style commands for specials? Makes sense control-wise
- Sound effects department could use more expansion (and no I don't mean voice work)
- Getting Skullgirls vibes :V
So I am liking this a bit more than the previous fighters currently. Let's see how the final product holds up.
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(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af129/AgentOfTheBSoD/Touhou%20Stuff/th1352012-12-2923-49-39-35_zpsf4e0517a.png)
The heck is this? Also, some of the attack images, like the orbs and stuff, are missing too, but not all. (I did download it twice thinking the first download was corrupted, second yielded the same results, thinking it's GPU related now)
Piracy ahoy! We don't do it, neither for sold demos. --Hele
-
The appeal system isn't gold and red, it's blue and red :V
Blue and red auras seem to occur pretty much randomly. They also occur when popularity hits 100%, when both blue & red auras show up simultaneously. If you don't beat the opponent or use your last word after your popularity hits 100%, then it'll drop majorly?back to zero, generally.
Spell cards aren't spammable?after you use a spell card once, your blue bar will deplete and you'll have to fill it back up again.
The barrier-type guard is instant guard, which works if you guard right before you get hit. Something happens when you do that. It doesn't look like it's mentioned in the manual.
-
so... has anyone managed to figure out how to extract the pak file to see if theres anything that could hint to the full roster thats gonna be in the full release in it, haven't had any luck myself extracting it yet myself
Also have some terrible gameplay from me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYi_O4v7cI
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can anyone try to summarize the whole thing bout the demo?i seem kinda lost and hav no idea on how to do anything like special moves,declaring,dashing properly(?),the moves,and wats a+b and z?help
-
After mastering this game, returning back to IaMP and SWR will be pain.
-
so... has anyone managed to figure out how to extract the pak file to see if theres anything that could hint to the full roster thats gonna be in the full release in it, haven't had any luck myself extracting it yet myself
Also have some terrible gameplay from me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYi_O4v7cI
I love how Reimu just explodes when the fights over.
-
Ichirin's fighting style is pure awesome.
-
Fucking love how Ichirin is playing!
Also fuck Reimu and her cheat ass AI!
Oh thank god I'm not the only one that sucks at fighting Reimu.
-
Sooo, more roster speculation? 8D
.
.
.
Could happen... Also Sanae (and Suwako) most likely will appear. I do hope that Kanako will be a playable character.
And hopefully we see some PC-98 character like Sariel (not going to happen).
Prismrivers were in audience... Does this mean that we have no Merlin with trumpet bazooka nor Lyrica beating people with keyboard?
-
Anyone else experiencing borked replays? I have two replays in total, and both are borked. The first one I lose both times, but the replay shows I won both times. The second one I won both times, and the replay shows I lost, then won, then began a 3rd round and ended the replay immediately after that. (because there was no 3rd round, obviously)
I also have to note that the AI hardly moves in the replays. Most of the time it just floats in one spot and does nothing.
-
Anyone else experiencing borked replays? I have two replays in total, and both are borked. The first one I lose both times, but the replay shows I won both times. The second one I won both times, and the replay shows I lost, then won, then began a 3rd round and ended the replay immediately after that. (because there was no 3rd round, obviously)
I also have to note that the AI hardly moves in the replays. Most of the time it just floats in one spot and does nothing.
It's just a demo, and a rather glitchy one at that. I wouldn't put too much faith in the replay system until the final product rolls around.
Hehehehe...c wat I did thar? :getdown:
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It's just a demo, and a rather glitchy one at that. I wouldn't put too much faith in the replay system until the final product rolls around.
Hehehehe...c wat I did thar? :getdown:
Yeah, that's true.
Also, oddly enough, I see more stuff like yin-yang orbs in replays than I do actually playing the game. Seems I can see more images in replays for some reason, and ones that seem to stick on the screen and not leave.
-
So I just woke up and... DAT ICHIRIN OUTFIT
I'm happy that she made it into the roster. :)
-
Just a friendly reminder for all. Since Comiket 83 seems to be around the corner, I just want to say that Touhou 13.5 demo is not a free downloadable game. It is in fact sold at C83 for 100円 as Tasofro (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/index.html) reports on their website.
/me continues to drink his Sunday morning tea
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Seems like every character has many different poses for entry, victory and lose... I was quite shocked when I saw hoodless Ichirin.
-
I just can't get over how this artist draws their portrait arms... they're all ridiculously tiny and that bugs me. :V
-
(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7769/ichirin.png)
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It doesn't look like trying and failing to declare a spell card is what lowers your popularity, but passive play is what does, so if you were avoiding your opponent while trying to declare then that was probably the cause.
I noticed I was mistaken in what the spellcards are. What I had used that caused a massive loss in appeal was the "item" (for lack of better words). How exactly do those work? I get the impression they take effect when the enemy hits them with an effect while they are used?
-
霊撃札.
It's the Spritual Strike in the older games.
If it whiffs, your popularity will drop. A lot.
-
The wonder that is how her hair went from Lavender to Cyan.
touhoucolors.jpg
-
Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod Ohgod BROFIST
If Youmu isn't in...
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/c54758404e6aa7d39f724747f9bd9732/tumblr_mewn7vEEhO1rm62h8o2_500.jpg)
But SHE WILL MAKE IT!!!
...Somehow!
Totes saving that pic :V
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I just can't get over how this artist draws their portrait arms... they're all ridiculously tiny and that bugs me. :V
So it's not just me. Actually it's just Ichirin's arms that look tiny to me. Reimu's and Marisa's are fine.
(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7769/ichirin.png)
I actually think that looks more "Ichirin" than her default costume. Not to mention Black Marisa, but that one's obvious lol.
But that Cirno-colored hair still bugs me. Not to mention the eyelashes in the portrait art :wat: GFW Cirno eyebrows v2
Anyways IDK why I'm criticizing the art lol. I guess I don't know what to say about the gameplay because I don't know what the eff I'm doing
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Of all the characters suitable for Hopeless Masquerade, Ichirin is definitely one of the characters who deserved additional characterization and a costume upgrade. I'm really pleased.
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So the game actually runs on the other computer lying around here, although Unzan or the hit effects lag the hell out of it. At least the former is solved by halving the FPS in the config, and I suppose the latter would be solved by not using on-board video anymore!
I just hope ZUN doesn't follow their path and suddenly announces a new HD Touhou game that requires something from this decade to run :(
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I spy no Kogasa on the Palenquin stage, so hope for her appearing in the final game restored? :derp:
Is it just me, or is Ichirin REALLY hardy to combo with? She just kinda looks a little slow to but together combo strings :V
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so... has anyone managed to figure out how to extract the pak file to see if theres anything that could hint to the full roster thats gonna be in the full release in it, haven't had any luck myself extracting it yet myself
Also have some terrible gameplay from me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYi_O4v7cI
Ichirin spinning like Zangief FTW!!!
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Sup. (https://twitter.com/NForza26/status/285297010142240769)
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Ichirin spinning like Zangief FTW!!!
I guess Ichirin no longer is Unzan's hitbox. It's disappointed that she doesn't have a pony-tail under hood though.
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I want to know what is that thing on the executable's icon supposed to be.
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I want to know what is that thing on the executable's icon supposed to be.
It looks like Unzan's hat if you win with Ichirin.
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It looks like Unzan's hat if you win with Ichirin.
Oh yeah, it's really that. (Was not aware because I had not seen Ichirin's winning pose yet)
Game is quite interesting overall, I'm just a little disappointed because Nue and Murasa won't be playable, tho. Even despite my high hopes. For me it'd be cool to see the latter smacking the others with a Giant Anchor, like May.
Game will probably have around 8 playable chars, from what I can see:
Reimu, Marisa, Ichirin, Shou, Byakuren, Futo, Miko and Seiga (She was in the intro as well, wasn't her? Or am I wrong?)
And probably a new character... but that's it.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I also forgot Sanae and Aya, they also have high chances.
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An interesting twist to play as a nun in a fighting game.
It could be ... habit-forming.
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These win poses are so fitting. Reimu's either giving a smug and sassy look or tossing a giant amulet at the front of the screen, Marisa is laughing manically and Ichirin's got her bell ringing on Unzan's head or a cool and confident pose (with or without headgear).
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Marisa is laughing manically
The way you said it, made me think of her crazy laughs from PoDD.
"Ufu, ufu, ufufufufufufufu-"
"Uhu, uhu, uhuhuhuhuhuhuhu~"
"Hmhmhmhmhm."
"Ahahahahahaha (sweatdrop)"
"Ahaha~"
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so I'm trying to get it to work with my PS3 controller and DS3 tools, but it keeps either locking up in config or just doesn't work at all (as in, it would read the button config fine, but it wouldn't read them at all during gameplay =/)
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Someone.
Please.
I'm so bad at this game.
I've lost EVERY SINGLE MATCH I've ever played.
Kill me now.
Please.
:colonveeplusalpha:
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Okay, so I've played this demo and I've beaten every character as every character now. It took me a while before I realized that the game uses 6 buttons instead of just 3 so I couldn't use much of projectiles for the first few matches. I haven't lost a match since my first though so I'm wondering if there's any way to raise the difficulty.
Also, I hope that the story mode will be like in SWR and having all these sorts of spell cards because this fighting engine is probably only going to be fun for so long without any human players to play with. My favorite character is Ichirin so far. It's hilarious to pound away on the shrine maidens with those enormous fists.
I would've liked the trial to include a practice option so I could experiment with moves but alas there isn't one. :(
In any case, I'm looking forward to a full release so I can kick Miko's butt to oblivion with at least Ichirin if more precious characters don't show up like they should.
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I would've liked the trial to include a practice option so I could experiment with moves but alas there isn't one. :(
Go to VS mode and hit F4
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I stream randomly at ustream.tv/channel/amraphenson
let's put that fighting game knowledge to use.
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I would've liked the trial to include a practice option so I could experiment with moves but alas there isn't one. :(
technically there is.u go to vs player and make sure the second player controls does not conflict with your controls.and when u r in,press f1 to get full appeal and somehow that stops the timer too.press f4 to go into the blue health bar mode instantly and at the same time the enemy will not lose health.i hope i help you.
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So how long until someone releases a combo video
Or is one already out :V
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I am kind of disappointed here. I mean, sure, Unzan is begging for a spot in a fighting game, but this looks like they're a centerpiece.
It was fine at first because I thought this might *not* be Ichirin. You know, because of the sudden change in hair color. What's up with that, by the way?
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I always thought Ichirin would be an excellent character for a fighting game
I'm pretty damn happy with this right now.
New special system is cool too, especially with the already out-there nature of the game.
Yeah I'm pretty happy with this.
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Do we know anything about the artist who made the portraits? I'm pretty sure it's not alphes, right?
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Do we know anything about the artist who made the portraits? I'm pretty sure it's not alphes, right?
If he's the same guy who made the sprites he really insisted on showing off some legs.
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Are those Tights Star is wearing? (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38923366/Idontknow.png) This would mean I think... that those are the first tights in Gensokyo as far as I remember...
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Are those Tights Star is wearing? (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38923366/Idontknow.png) This would mean I think... that those are the first tights in Gensokyo as far as I remember...
They certainly appear to be.
And Sunny seems to have taken a good bit off her dress...though in a tomboy way.
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A bit of speculation, but considering you can see Unzan in the intro cinematic, i think we can count on Shou, Byakuren, Miko, Futo, and probably Seiga to be in as well. You can pretty clearly see all them and Reimu in it. This does make me wonder if that would put a potential 12 characters in it (although 13 would make it match the game number and allow for a surprise. just saying) with 4 characters per faction: 4 for Shinto (Reimu, Marisa and prolly Sanae and one more) 4 for Buddhism (Ichirin, Byakuren, Shou, and prolly Mamizou), and 4 for Taoism (Miko, Futo, Seiga, and prolly Yoshika)
also: Crossing the screen in Marisa's Broom Charge is fun.
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The last spell cards are sooo awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DD_Ltzijy8
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I just realized after looking at the Palanquin Ship and Hakurei Shrine stages, that even if it's just as spectators...
Nameless Fairies got into a fighting game before Mima did.
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Just the best character confirmed for the demo.
(http://i.imgur.com/7AZOC.jpg)
...
I'd celebrate, because this means maybe in the pre and post match chats, she'll actually get a character.
On the other hand... she seems to be Unzan's hotbox for all intents and purposes. Again.
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So yeah, I kinda did this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHCL_MFHYu0)
Just a basic overview of the demo. Explaining a few things and beating the shit out of Lunatic AI.
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I always liked Ichirin's theme from UFO, so this remix is a very welcome addition to me.
According to the wiki, the Palanquin Ship landed and was renovated into Myouren Temple at the end of UFO. Now it's back being a flying ship? ???
Also, this game feels more "keyboard-friendly" compared to the past fighting games, to me at least.
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I'd guess that this game isn't meant to be super canon or anything.
Are those Tights Star is wearing? (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38923366/Idontknow.png) This would mean I think... that those are the first tights in Gensokyo as far as I remember...
Nuers.
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Is it just me or is Marisa broken? She always beats me, and the only match I've ever won, I used her. She combos easily, has a pretty high attack power and that AI... >.<
Or maybe I just suck.
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A bit of speculation, but considering you can see Unzan in the intro cinematic, i think we can count on Shou, Byakuren, Miko, Futo, and probably Seiga to be in as well. You can pretty clearly see all them and Reimu in it. This does make me wonder if that would put a potential 12 characters in it (although 13 would make it match the game number and allow for a surprise. just saying) with 4 characters per faction: 4 for Shinto (Reimu, Marisa and prolly Sanae and one more) 4 for Buddhism (Ichirin, Byakuren, Shou, and prolly Mamizou), and 4 for Taoism (Miko, Futo, Seiga, and prolly Yoshika)
also: Crossing the screen in Marisa's Broom Charge is fun.
I thought it was established that Marisa fights on the humans' side rather than for Shintoism, which would "leave space" (there isn't a fixed limit anyway) for both Kanako and Suwako (who many people seem to forget about in this thread). I'm not quite sure if Mamizou is interested in religion, either, being more of a youkai representant than anything. Yoshika has no religious ambitions anyway (Seiga assist is likely, though), but we might hopefully see Tojiko, as character development is always a good thing.
Not quite sure how Kasen fits into this theme, but it'd be nice to see her appear in a game for once.
aki sisters pls
or orin koishi eiki keine mokou
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God Ichirin is fun to use.
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Does anyone know, how long it took the other fighting game demos to be available at Tasofro's website? Is it usually directly after the Comiket ends or is it put up just before the sales for the full game start?
Also, I agree with Limian's suggestion to put Eiki~sama in;
Story
In the wake of so many incidents beyond their control, the Human Village has fallen into a state of hopeless pessimism.[...]
the story's setting would warrant a good scolding quite well imo^^
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Ichirin's Last Word reminds me of Missing Power, so awesome. Ichirin is fun, and her combos are great but to initiate one is not that easy, i prefer Reimu over that (her light attacks are fast). Love Unzan's Double Rocket Punch, beat the crap out of AI with just that ^^
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Reimu teleporting through the floor of the Shrine entrance and throwing giant amulets at the screen, heck yeah BV
She also has the Mario & Luigi technique of appearing on the opposite side of the screen without Yukari's help now, too.
Apparently, Ichirin is still kinda Unzan's hitbox. But her Goku-like battle entrances and her win animations are amazing to watch.
I'm still expecting that Cirno appears with a title like "Champion of the Fairies"
And Eiki is totally going to appear and yell at everyone for this.
I'm sure the artist would LOVE to draw her sprites :V
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The wonder that is how her hair went from Lavender to Cyan.
touhoucolors.jpg
she dyed it between games, duh. the real wonder is why marisa thought it would be a good idea to undo her braid
actual opinion summary: fun game, but not enough depth to it for a fighter. combos barely exist. blocking is op and matches become stallfests too easily. portraits are shitty but otherwise the presentation is pretty neat, especially the new character sprites. hopefully tasofro will get enough bitching about the demo to make the full version allow more aggressive playstyles and have actual variety in combos
anybody using the "ichirin is unzan's hitbox" meme can fight me, irl. as far as fighters are concerned unzan is ichirin's attack hitbox
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No one pointed Marisa's Specials mechanic? Seriously? The whole "After 3 specials, the fourth becomes a better version"? Maybe I'm the only one who thought it was special :fail:
Anyway, remember how I was the one that said ''Eh, the movements don't look smooth'' and ''Eh, seems slow and stuff.'' Yeah nevermind, this game is absolutely epic in many many ways.
Speaking of Ichirin, I actually think she lost her hitbox tag, at least to me. New epic costume, new hair color (Prettier~), most of her moves involve Unzan appearing to assist, but she can also attack using her fists if Unzan was used in a special right before. Even more badass is her ''I PUNCH DAH GROUND! *Gigantic fist appears from heaven to crush the opponent*''.
That attack is so amazing, there's no words.
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I think I also got a better appreciation for Ichirin after this demo. Awesome attacks and a wicked new costume. I'm not that good at playing as her, but she's definitely one I'd love to practice and learn.
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She also has the Mario & Luigi technique of appearing on the opposite side of the screen without Yukari's help now, too.
She had that ability in Imperishable Night as a boss. It's more shown in her spell cards and their names than it's outright stated, but Reimu actually has some ability to manipulate boundaries without Yukari's help (presumably necessary in order to do her job in maintaining the Hakurei barrier).
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Am I to assume Aya's filming the fights? Reimu's victory thing is throwing that one seal from Double Spoiler right?
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Not really.
The talisman says something like 'Refusing Religion Recommendations'(宗教勧誘お断り!)
Marisa's Full-Speed Dash B attack should be made into a gif or something.
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New thread here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14013.0.html).