Author Topic: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade - I'm hopelessly in love  (Read 471181 times)

ElGreko

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Look at the positions of some of the characters. Sunny Milk is afraid of Lily White, she would unlikely be in the same location as Lily White. Satori, Utsuho and Rin aren't grouped together.

Lol... that doesn't make any sense, Sunny is not afraid of Lily, she just was once but this didn't last.
And they are also together on their original stage too (where they aren't tanukis).

And I don't find Okuu, Orin and Satori are so far from each other, they're even closer than in Satori's manor's stage, and anyway, that doesn't mean anything.
Furthermore, Sanae is with Suwako, Tenshi is with Iku, etc... so everything is normal.


The only hint we can take is that there are 20 characters on the first stage and 20 tanukis by night.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 09:27:56 PM by ElGreko »

Savory

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Now I really can't  wait for an English patch, haha.

In many fighting games, the lackey character either provides no real plot significance, usually with a joke ending, or betrays the boss character, I've found. Futo and Ichirin are merely going along with what these types of characters usually have for a story in fighting games. If anything, the fact that their routes acknowledge how they were completely worthless might be a lampshade hanging on how worthless the lackey character usually is to the storyline of a fighting game. That said, in terms of storyline, I'd rather have a lackey character that doesn't contribute to the overall plot than a character who isn't connected to anyone at all and doesn't contribute to the main plot (which fighting games are absolutely filled with, these days). I don't think Nitori particularly falls under this category though since if anything, she at least has a purpose in symbolizing a character who really hates all this religious hallabaloo going on. Marisa probably does, though.

In terms of gameplay, however, it's natural for most fighting games to have characters who contribute nothing to the plot and aren't really connected to anything significant, if only to fill out the roster with more characters to play as as well as tradition.  Again, Marisa.

After all, as the cast gets larger, you can't have everyone be plot relevant. Take a look at Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, where a vast majority of characters were just joke routes or had storylines taht really could have been removed and the overall story wouldn't have changed much.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 04:25:34 PM by Tiamat »

ElGreko

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Why is there no gif of Kokoro's win pose? :~:
I'm too busy right now to create one with the source images, but I found this, if it can interest you;

Here



Lukesky180

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I noticed something. Dunno if anyone else has already noticed it?

If you are in VS CPU mode and you have already won a match by actually reducing the enemy's healthbar to 0, and you win a match through popularity only after that, the newspaper that shows up will have the picture of the match you won through killing rather than the match through popularity. If the popularity win match is first, it will just show a picture of the winning girl's pose.
>This is the little mistress.
>Oh, hello little one!
Is this my dream, the destiny to behold?
~Sister of Scarlet~

ElGreko

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I think it's one another random bug, since the "newpaper's picture" is really bugged.
This already happened to me, or some pic showing the one from the previous match, or even sometimes the pic being totally black.
Generally when I close and I restart the game, everything's going normally after.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 09:42:53 PM by ElGreko »

Quote
Lol... that doesn't make any sense, Sunny is not afraid of Lily, she just was once but this didn't last.
And they are also together on their original stage too (where they aren't tanukis).

According to the 3 Fairies manga, Sunny Milk is afraid of Lily White.
When is Sunny Milk in the same stage as Lily White? Could you tell me which stage is this?

Quote
And I don't find Okuu, Orin and Satori are so far from each other, they're even closer than in Satori's manor's stage, and anyway, that doesn't mean anything.

Well, they are above ground, so that means something. We know they are a group and unlike in Chireiden(Palace of Earth Spirits), these are people they do not recognize, so you would expect them to be together as a group.

ElGreko

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According to the 3 Fairies manga, Sunny Milk is afraid of Lily White.
When is Sunny Milk in the same stage as Lily White? Could you tell me which stage is this?

Well, they are above ground, so that means something. We know they are a group and unlike in Chireiden(Palace of Earth Spirits), these are people they do not recognize, so you would expect them to be together as a group.

Quote
Sunny is not afraid of Lily, she just was once but this didn't last.

As I said, she was sort of afraid but it didn't last and they became close to each other.
This is the stage you asked for ( ̄ー ̄)
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/24/1370833388-0.png

(By the way, I didn't understand what you tried to say about Orin, Okuu and Satori, I don't see what's bothering you with them, but nevermind.)

I see, I did not realize Lily White was there.

Quote
(By the way, I didn't understand what you tried to say about Orin, Okuu and Satori, I don't see what's bothering you with them, but nevermind.)

Well, you have Orin, Okuu, then Kyouko, then Satori. Since they are underground youkai that don't know the above ground people, I find it odd that they are separated, that's all.

Lite?彼女

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well im dam late in noticing this one came out lol. time to buy

Helepolis

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I unlocked Mamijou by beating the game with every girl. I assume clearing with her has no impact on the game right?

Also what happens if I, who has unlocked her, tries to play vs someone through netplay. Would my opponent automatically have her as well (if he/she doesn't have her unlocked yet)?


ElGreko

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I unlocked Mamijou by beating the game with every girl. I assume clearing with her has no impact on the game right?

Also what happens if I, who has unlocked her, tries to play vs someone through netplay. Would my opponent automatically have her as well (if he/she doesn't have her unlocked yet)?

If you finished the story mode with Mamizou, you will unlock Kokoro's story mode (that should technically unlock her too if you clear it, but it still doesn't work for several people.)

And if you play with someone who doesn't have her, you won't be able to select her against him, sadly. Here's some quotes of a similar question:


Question, if I don't have Mamizou (since I haven't really touched story mode yet) will that affect if the opponent can use her?
Yes it will, if you don't have Mamizou or Kokoro (I managed to unlock Kokoro too in every game mod, even if she still doesn't have any skills or spells), if your friend unlocked them, he won't be able to use them against you.

To use one of the two secret characters, both players need to have them unlocked. And this is really frustrating, because I know a lot of people who haven't unlocked them ( —︿— ) (but fortunately, I sent my savegame to most of them in order to select the characters)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 07:56:56 AM by ElGreko »

Helepolis

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Ah, in that case I'll play with Mamijou tonight and unlock Kokoro's story mode. I was indeed getting some faint signals of people mentioning Kokoro but showing weird bugs/behaviour. Although that was due to words like cheatengine and such being dropped. I didn't want to use any of that nor get someone elses .dat to get the chars. Otherwise the game is pretty meaningless for me.


Ah, in that case I'll play with Mamijou tonight and unlock Kokoro's story mode. I was indeed getting some faint signals of people mentioning Kokoro but showing weird bugs/behaviour. Although that was due to words like cheatengine and such being dropped. I didn't want to use any of that nor get someone elses .dat to get the chars. Otherwise the game is pretty meaningless for me.
As far as I know, Kokoro's route is always unlocked. And this is probably intentional, not a bug, because otherwise the story would remain incomplete. I mean, the game needs an ending after all. She just has no decks or spellcards. So only basic attacks.

Unlocking her in versus mode seems to be a  bug though.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 08:17:34 AM by Clarste »

ElGreko

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I was indeed getting some faint signals of people mentioning Kokoro but showing weird bugs/behaviour.

Well, the only weird behavior she does have is the fact that she doesn't have any skills or spellcards, so basically, her C works like B, and her Z works like Y.
But she' still enjoyable to play, since she has some extremely powered chaining abilities, especially in corners, and you can still win without skills or spellcards against human players (and also because she's really cute.)

Although that was due to words like cheatengine and such being dropped. I didn't want to use any of that nor get someone elses .dat to get the chars. Otherwise the game is pretty meaningless for me.

Well, a friend of mine unlocked her just by playing normally most likely due to a bug, at least that's what he says. Maybe he's lying, but someone else here said something quite similar.
But yeah, I totally assume you want to get your chars by your own way, you can still clear Kokoro's story mode and see what happens for you, and wait the full release of her ( ̄ー ̄).
(I hope they'll release her soon!)

Helepolis

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As far as I know, Kokoro's rout eis always unlocked.
I am quite sure I cannot select her in story mode, same like Mamijou before meeting the requirements.

So she has no cards/specials. Well that is fine, perhaps a challenge. I am playing it on easy/normal mode or something. To be honest, 13.5 is the first fighting game I found charming enough to actually play through. I haven't beaten any other fightings games so extensively. Well, maybe kicking Tenshi's ass in 10.5 but that is about it.

ElGreko

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I am quite sure I cannot select her in story mode, same like Mamijou before meeting the requirements.

I think he was meaning that her story mode is always unlockable ( ?‿‿? ) .

To be honest, 13.5 is the first fighting game I found charming enough to actually play through. I haven't beaten any other fightings games so extensively. Well, maybe kicking Tenshi's ass in 10.5 but that is about it.

Well, Shinkirou is a quite special game that doesn't look like any other fighting game; so, people could either love or hate it, but yeah, it's an interesting game and very fun to play with friends.
But Hisoutensoku (with the 20 characters) was an excellent game too (that has for me the best [or one of the best] fighting gameplay over all classicals 2D fighting games ever.)
Anyway, everyone has his own tastes for everything ( ̄ー ̄).

Helepolis

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:V It sounded as if has to be unlocked from the start. Mainly due to the word: Unlocked instead of Unlockable.

Actually, I am generally not much of heavy gamer any more. Clearing normal and perhaps ex for some games satisfies me. I usually don't invest much time in the fighters nor shmups. Though netplay is quite fun. Pitty too much dependant on Peer2Peer style connections.

Darth_Sirov

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I have Kokoro in Story (and finished it) but can't use her in VS mode. I assume that's how far most can play with her.

Also, got 8 of the characters finished via lunatic. Working on Nitori, but her ammo counter means that I cannot rely on distance fighting when it comes to spell card sections. Worse off when I'll have to face Mamizou and her auto-attacking spell cards.

I think he was meaning that her story mode is always unlockable ( ?‿‿? ) .
Er... yeah. That's what I meant. I had "unlocked when you beat Mamizou's route" in my mind and omitted the relevant part. Poorly worded.

Ciel

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I have Kokoro in Story (and finished it) but can't use her in VS mode. I assume that's how far most can play with her.

Also, got 8 of the characters finished via lunatic. Working on Nitori, but her ammo counter means that I cannot rely on distance fighting when it comes to spell card sections. Worse off when I'll have to face Mamizou and her auto-attacking spell cards.
Strange, I could play Kokoro in VS just fine...



Right there.  I think I unlocked her after I'm done with Mamizou. D8;;

Just some weirdo, move along!

I wonder if this has something to do with people's patching status?

Helepolis

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Same thing I am wondering. I didn't unlock Mamijou yet. I patched to 1.02 pretty much when it came out. So I unlocked her in 1.02. I'll play tonight and confirm my experience.

ElGreko

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By the way, I was wondering... why do you call her Mamijou ? ( ?‿‿? )

Kilgamayan

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Different Romanization systems treat that group of syllables differently. Some use za/zi/zu/ze/zo, others use ja/ji/ju/je/jo.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

ElGreko

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Are you sure? "Zou" is written ゾウ or ぞう ; "jou" is written ジョウ, ジョー or じょう. Am I misunderstanding anything?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 01:35:28 PM by ElGreko »

Are you sure? "Zou" is written ゾウ or ぞう ; "jou" is written ジョウ, ジョー or じょう. Am I misunderstanding anything?
No, you're right.

The confusion is that way the Japanese syllabary works is that characters are organized by consonant sound and the five vowel sounds. So a-i-u-e-o, ka-ki-ku-ke-ko, etc. It also has this little things where consonants become voiced (this is a linguistic term) by adding two little marks. ka-ki-ku-ke-ko becomes ga-gi-gu-ge-go with these marks. Of course, almost no language is perfectly regular. Once it gets to 's', it becomes sa-shi-su-se-so. There is simply no way to write 'si' in Japanese. The more common romanization makes it 'shi' to help people pronounce it, but certain more formal systems write 'si' to preserve the regularity (that doesn't actually exist) at the expense of readability. And then, once they become they become voiced, it's za-ji-zu-ze-zo. Which is where we get Reiuzi, Huziwara ('fu' is also irregular), Toziko, and other irregular romanizations. Amusingly, the Japanese actualy recognize that 'sh' and 'j' are different sounds and have more complicated ways to write 'ja' and 'jo' and whatnot by using small version of the 'y' syllables combined with 'ji'. Sometimes written as sya or jya.

However, that only applies to the 'i' vowel sound. 'zo' is perfectly normal and shouldn't have any romanization confusion. Mamijou is just wrong.

...not sure if this explanation makes any sense.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 02:11:27 PM by Clarste »

Darth_Sirov

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Ok, just finished Nitori @ lunatic, I find Taoism build to be most useful for me. The Pipebombs (expensive but extremely powerful) are great for those static spell card moments (that includes Mamizou's 1st spell card & Kokoro's last one) as well as those rapid moving enemies (Marisa is the primary culprit). 2 Saipan Spell Cards are also great and does roughly 70% of their life bar if they get caught up in the combo and continues through (though you can be knocked out of it, so be careful when you use it). Best of all is the primary shot type, which is a double straight shot that hits opponents fast, while her secondary fire works like a focused fire pulse rifle.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 03:04:58 PM by Darth_Sirov »

No, you're right.

The confusion is that way the Japanese syllabary works is that characters are organized by consonant sound and the five vowel sounds. So a-i-u-e-o, ka-ki-ku-ke-ko, etc. It also has this little things where consonants become voiced (this is a linguistic term) by adding two little marks. ka-ki-ku-ke-ko becomes ga-gi-gu-ge-go with these marks. Of course, almost no language is perfectly regular. Once it gets to 's', it becomes sa-shi-su-se-so. There is simply no way to write 'si' in Japanese. The more common romanization makes it 'shi' to help people pronounce it, but certain more formal systems write 'si' to preserve the regularity (that doesn't actually exist) at the expense of readability. And then, once they become they become voiced, it's za-ji-zu-ze-zo. Which is where we get Reiuzi, Huziwara ('fu' is also irregular), Toziko, and other irregular romanizations. Amusingly, the Japanese actualy recognize that 'sh' and 'j' are different sounds and have more complicated ways to write 'ja' and 'jo' and whatnot by using small version of the 'y' syllables combined with 'ji'. Sometimes written as sya or jya.

However, that only applies to the 'i' vowel sound. 'zo' is perfectly normal and shouldn't have any romanization confusion. Mamijou is just wrong.

...not sure if this explanation makes any sense.

There's also the t-line, which goes:

ta - chi - tsu - te -to,

and when "voiced", turns to:

da - ji - zu - de -do

The bolded ones are near indistinguishable in pronounciation as the s-line

Helepolis

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You learn something new every day. Correction then:

Managed to clear the game with Mamizou. Unlocked Kokoro in story mode and cleared with her as well. Unfortunately, cannot play her in VS mode orz.

Makes me wonder how the non-cheaters have unlocked her. Straight from 1.00 or 1.01 or 1.02?