Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F

[Serela]

Yeah, it's true that I don't know quite how survivability goes in Plus. But people with high damage reduction (meiling, futo once her plates work, potentially fighting spirit users) are likely somethin'.

And yeah, if you can inflict Terror, it's not just kogasa that'd be impossible to kill; 9100 atb 26% hp regen is basically fullheals forever >_>

edit:Oooh, I thought of another use. Use the 9100 atb swaps with instant attackers. Momiji is a really solid option since she self-maintains buffs and is a good bulky attacker, whilst Chen/Mystia are somewhat more dubious, but still options. Mystia is actually really good post-awakening if you can inflict Silence, and can afford to spam Midnight Chorus Master in this build for high power and 120% SIL accuracy at massive duration- and her fragility isn't a notable problem with such a swap-heavy build. Chen probably wouldn't be a good option unless maybe you were running yakumo.

Translating Kogasa's fast swaps into fast blasting ontop of the regen, now this is looking good. Pair her with another HP tank and she'll keep both of their HP high, and there's a lot of viable hp tanks now. Other tank would provide more conventional support. Like, you know, Strategist Byakuren. (Byakuren could prolly still be def/mnd split, but this'd give enough regen to consider hp?)

[Nyxnyx]

Yeah, it's true that I don't know quite how survivability goes in Plus. But people with high damage reduction (meiling, futo once her plates work, potentially fighting spirit users) are likely somethin'.

And yeah, if you can inflict Terror, it's not just kogasa that'd be impossible to kill; 9100 atb 26% hp regen is basically fullheals forever >_>

edit:Oooh, I thought of another use. Use the 9100 atb swaps with instant attackers. Momiji is a really solid option since she self-maintains buffs and is a good bulky attacker, whilst Chen/Mystia are somewhat more dubious, but still options. Mystia is actually really good post-awakening if you can inflict Silence, and can afford to spam Midnight Chorus Master in this build for high power and 120% SIL accuracy at massive duration- and her fragility isn't a notable problem with such a swap-heavy build. Chen probably wouldn't be a good option unless maybe you were running yakumo.

Translating Kogasa's fast swaps into fast blasting ontop of the regen, now this is looking good. Pair her with another HP tank and she'll keep both of their HP high, and there's a lot of viable hp tanks now. Other tank would provide more conventional support. Like, you know, Strategist Byakuren. (Byakuren could prolly still be def/mnd split, but this'd give enough regen to consider hp?)

If you're running this strat, buffing the instant attacker would require precise timing? Since, well I played Mystia and I always have problem buffing her safely myself lol. Unless it's a slow boss. But yes, I think Mystia and Momiji are already quite good even without awakening.

But you'll still need other magic attacker since these two have no def pieceing capability, and there are some of those that has really high defense iirc.

[Nyxnyx]

I edited the wiki a bit about the enhanced boss shadows. Azure Giant and Demonic Eye are vulnerable to Reisen, Yuyuko combo, tested as I play my new run since ain't nobody got time for weaklings who can't even resist death. :v

[Serela]

If you're running this strat, buffing the instant attacker would require precise timing? Since, well I played Mystia and I always have problem buffing her safely myself lol. Unless it's a slow boss. But yes, I think Mystia and Momiji are already quite good even without awakening.

But you'll still need other magic attacker since these two have no def pieceing capability, and there are some of those that has really high defense iirc.

Momiji is very bulky and can afford to stay out for buffs sometimes, and (after awakening) has Encounter with a Strong Foe and Accelerate ontop of her passive that EASILY lets her cap her ATK buff permanently with no outside support, so she's perfect for the strat. Mystia is somewhat more of a problem; she'd probably need to sub Warrior to keep her ATK buff at a reasonable amount and try to come out right before a buffer's turn occasionally. But also with this strat, it would be very easy to micromanage switch timings; Kogasa getting a swap in every 900 atb means it's easy to throw Mystia out just before Byakuren or Renko or whoever takes their turn. Also, if the boss isn't immune to SIL, Mystia's 30% stat up (plus 16%+ from other passives) actually gives her workable durability- but her HP would still be somewhat low and you're probably gonna give her glass cannon atk equips in this setup.

And about the magical/piercing attacks; well, they certainly won't be the only characters in the party; Kogasa's fastswaps are still useful on others, totally ignore your party's skill delays by swapping out after any notable delay moves, swap in right after boss turns, etc. They could take off Swordmaster/Warrior to sub monk sometimes though, and Momiji ignores the enemy's DEF buffs already with Eyes that See Reality, so she's vaguely covered for it- but yeah, it's a good synergy but you still have other party members. That, and Kogasa also synergizes heavily with Satori/Reisen HP damage combo, especially if he doesn't ever make it so she has to actually swap to the back for Small MP Recovery. Get a good chunk of MP and Satori basically just doesn't run out, making Patriot Elixir blast damage amazingly viable irresistable damage, with either Healer or Enchanter sub for passive healing to keep her going.

[RegalStar]

It turns out that Rinnosuke CAN upgrade his high boost after all; by using the third tier book on him when the corresponding high boost is maxed will turn it into "giga boost". It costs a whooping 75 points per level, and has the following gains:

HP Giga Boost: 1.6 HP per level
MP Giga Boost: 5 MP per level
TP Giga Boost: 6 TP per level
ATK Giga Boost: 1.5 ATK per level (persumably MAG is the same)
DEF Giga Boost: 1.1 DEF per level (persumably MND is the same)
SPD Giga Boost: 0.9 SPD per level

As an aside, I also found out that SPD second/mega aren't double of the normal boost skills. Level 5 second boost gives 1.1 SPD in total while Level 5 mega boost gives 1.5 SPD in total.

Of course, accuracy/evasion/affinity/resistances can't be upgraded for anyone, so he doesn't get a Giga boost in those stats either.

Double post: Maribel's Chaotic Quadruple Barrier, when combined with Mamizou's Uncatchable Tanuki Disguiser, can instant death enemies with 100 DTH resistance as long as she lands a Shock with it, and actually somewhat reliably too. It's how I'm dealing with those Emerald Nuts since it's superior than having Futo poisoning them twice or subbing a Toxicologist on someone.

[Kirin no Sora]

Double post: Maribel's Chaotic Quadruple Barrier, when combined with Mamizou's Uncatchable Tanuki Disguiser, can instant death enemies with 100 DTH resistance as long as she lands a Shock with it, and actually somewhat reliably too. It's how I'm dealing with those Emerald Nuts since it's superior than having Futo poisoning them twice or subbing a Toxicologist on someone.

Given that the Shock chance is 100% at base, it's not much of a surprise. I would imagine that a character that has Shield Bash and Sheer Force would work as effectively.

Also, I have been looking at the subclasses, and I noticed the new ones. The spell card Oracle of the Shepard is labeled as Dark element, but I remember that it was Cold element. Has that changed, or is this an error?

[RegalStar]

Given that the Shock chance is 100% at base, it's not much of a surprise. I would imagine that a character that has Shield Bash and Sheer Force would work as effectively.

Also, I have been looking at the subclasses, and I noticed the new ones. The spell card Oracle of the Shepard is labeled as Dark element, but I remember that it was Cold element. Has that changed, or is this an error?

It's because either atwiki lied to me, or they actually tried using the spell and found it to be actually dark. I will test it in a minute or so.

EDIT: It's DRK elemental now. My v1.102 translation file had it as CLD though, so I suspect that it was an unstated update for 1.103.

[Serela]

I think the reason Maribel's spell inflicts megadeath is because it not only has high chance to shock, but ALSO high chance to DTH. And then Mamizou's passive probably -adds onto that chance-, giving it far more than 100% chance to hit. Most bosses are heavily resistant to shock and have well over 100 DTH resist but it might have a few amusing applications there, especially with sheer force sub guardian and Reisen's passive making it entirely realistic to SHK many more bosses.

[Nyxnyx]

The death effect, is it more accurate and powerful that Yuyuko's nirvana? Since if it is, then that's a new way to cheese certain bosses right there! :V

[Libra]

 I remember Yuyuko's level 5 Flawless Nirvana with Reisen in the frontline not being enough to actually inflict instant death on them. If we assume that Maribel's and Mamizou's DTH effects stacked and consider that Maribel's Chaotic Quadruple Barrier has an 80% chance to inflict DTH, Mamizou's DTH effect would need to be about 70% or more (I'm not sure how much Intense Vertigo reduces resistances, I'm assuming it's about 20).

[elminster1372]

Sorry for the slightly offtopic note, but I wanted to make a quick (sad) remark about LoT1: The wiki says that WINNER's chance of dropping Regalia is 10+x%, where x is the number of times you have killed him. But I have killed him 95 times, and I still get drop-less kills now and then - which is kinda lame (oh btw, brace yourselves for 100th kill video soon...^^)

[Serela]

(oh btw, brace yourselves for 100th kill video soon...^^)

YOU ARE OUT OF CONTROL

also cool c:

[RegalStar]

Regalia's drop rate is actually 10 + (number of kills / 10)%, so even at 100 kills it's only 20%.

[Kirin no Sora]

Regalia's drop rate is actually 10 + (number of kills / 10)%, so even at 100 kills it's only 20%.

So it would take 900 kills to make it a guaranteed drop, which is ridiculous, considering that it's WINNER that we are talking about here.

[Serela]

+1% per kill would have made a lot more sense considering context. But it goes how it goes~

I wonder how the new lingering boss will scale... (Assuming it still powers up; else what's the point of it lingering?) Since there's still more infinite corridors to go afterwards, it's even somewhat relevant.

3peso where's the update dear lord you said early/mid jan back when that meant "a few weeks". I shouldn't be surprised, this is how 3peso goes :V

[RegalStar]

For all we know, he might have meant January 2018 and February 2019 respectively  :V

[Validon98]

Part of me is wondering if the patch will come out pre-FFXIV Fanfest or post-FFXIV Fanfest, given 3peso is big on FFXIV (And DQX too but I dunno if there's any big DQX events happening since I don't play it). A friend of mine bet he's going to release it during Fanfest. In any case, hopefully within a week or so?

Also, been messing around with some run ideas for LoT2 out of boredom, LoT1's runs I just lost the energy to do, and I'm waiting on the next patch to continue Team 9 in LoT2 (even though I could get to 100F in Endless Corridor, I just don't feel like it). One run idea I've actually gotten further than just the first stratum is "Team Terror", AKA Parsee, Kasen, Kogasa, and Reisen. So far so good, surprisingly. Even with the lack of the queen of debuffs herself, Hina, the rest are pulling their weight so far. Just worried about the lack of a real tank and the lack of a healer, even if Kasen can theoretically be on tank duty with Fighting Spirit and semi-passable DEF/MND.

[Nyxnyx]

Part of me is wondering if the patch will come out pre-FFXIV Fanfest or post-FFXIV Fanfest, given 3peso is big on FFXIV (And DQX too but I dunno if there's any big DQX events happening since I don't play it). A friend of mine bet he's going to release it during Fanfest. In any case, hopefully within a week or so?

Also, been messing around with some run ideas for LoT2 out of boredom, LoT1's runs I just lost the energy to do, and I'm waiting on the next patch to continue Team 9 in LoT2 (even though I could get to 100F in Endless Corridor, I just don't feel like it). One run idea I've actually gotten further than just the first stratum is "Team Terror", AKA Parsee, Kasen, Kogasa, and Reisen. So far so good, surprisingly. Even with the lack of the queen of debuffs herself, Hina, the rest are pulling their weight so far. Just worried about the lack of a real tank and the lack of a healer, even if Kasen can theoretically be on tank duty with Fighting Spirit and semi-passable DEF/MND.

By team 9, are you using them alone or with 12 man team? Since I've been struggling with them(new game+) when I face something that resist all the team's elements. Especially Wriggle since she does nothing if the enemy is immune to poison. But at least I subbed strategist on her.

But Rumia and Mystia is good lol.

[elminster1372]

Regalia's drop rate is actually 10 + (number of kills / 10)%, so even at 100 kills it's only 20%.

Well, that's disappointing - almost as much as Longsword Ringil now hitting my tank for over 3 million w/o any buffs :-(

[Validon98]

When I mean Team 9, I mean literally just them, no one else.

[Nyxnyx]

Can you describe your subclass distribution? Who takes the role of buffer etc. And how do you deal with bosses resistant to all the team's elements?

[Validon98]

Wriggle: Tends to have Strategist on, because the passive bonuses are just too good. She's otherwise setup as a tank for the most part, and unfortunately is the most "useless" of them all. I believe I've made her a Healer or Diva on occasion depending on the fight, but most of the time she's a Strategist.
Mystia: Always DPS, all the time. Usually is a Monk or Warrior, though Plus Disk has had her take the Ame-no-Murakumo's Blessing. That in combination with Midnight Chorus Master makes her able to basically sweep random encounters no problem, while also giving her a desperately needed SPI attack in a party that lacks SPI attacks.
Cirno: Like Mystia, she tends to be DPS, though her speed has also made her a Healer on occasion. Tends to take Monk or Warrior.
Rumia: Interestingly, while she is my magic DPS, she's also my main healer and buffer, running Enhancer a lot of the time. That in combination with Demarcation allows for basically a minor party-wide defensive buff, and her Magic is so high that Demarcation, most of the time at least, is a full heal.

As for handling fights where the enemy resists everything I've got... well, there's always good ol' grinding, but most of the time there's a subclass with a spell I can use (Warrior for FIR, Monk for NTR). The only elements the team desperately lack during main game are PHY (which can be substituted with normal attacks) and SPI (which doesn't get fixed until getting Ame-no-Murakumo's Blessing, because subclasses before that are very bad at giving SPI coverage). DRK is also somewhat of a problem but if I reaaaaally need to I'll use Dark Side of the Moon, though most of the time it doesn't matter because of Piercing Attack on Rumia.

[Serela]

Warrior can at least sort of give you PHY with Empowered Attack if you really need it, and Monk's WND isn't so bad against weak bosses- it's your only source of SPD boost so the buff actually kinda helps Thrust work well.

[Nyxnyx]

It's amazing how you got pass the magatama and mirror with the team alone lol. They gave me huge problem both on my main save and a new game with + chars, especially when I try to fight at challenge level. But yeah I think their awakening are quite good except for Wriggle IMO since half of her awakening needs the boss to be vulnerable to poison.

Cirno has a really good awakening i think. Slowing any kind of boss without fail is unique to her alone and that really defines her playstyle.

[Icemoon]

I'm probably risking sounding incredibly dumb right here, but I fail to find

Spoiler:

Kokoro and Koishi's locations

on 24F. Could anyone please give me a hint? I'm rather sure I found literally everything else on the upper floors of Plus Disk. ...The spoiler probably is unnecessary, but I'm not going to risk spoiling anyone anyway.

Edit: Nevermind, I found both of them. In Koishi's case, it was a failure on my part - the game had crashed, leading to me missing an event for her.  :blush:

[Serela]

Hmm, I was thinking about my Kogasa tank idea abusing Instant Attackers again today at work. Chen... initially I mostly ruled her out compared to Momiji and Mystia, but she's actually better suited than I thought. One of the weaknesses of the strat is you burn through the instant attacker's mp very quickly; although that's fine since kogasa can speedily swap them (And possibly herself) out to restore MP and overall, you're still getting just as much damage as you would from burning that mp at normal speed- just way faster. (This is also a good reason to run all 3 instant attackers if you can spare the space)

But, Chen can use her self-debuffs synergy with Hexer Conversion to fix up the mp thing, suddenly a more notable build with Kogasa fastswap tank. As well, she's fast enough to potentially cast Idaten AND then Phoenix Spread Wings inbetween Kogasa's turns, which deals with her lower damage potential compared to Mystia/Momiji (esp. post awakening), especially as Phoenix Spread Wings has a nice formula. (And she can easily fit in kimontonkou instead of idaten, or double idaten if elements warrant it, etc) This also lets her still use her awakening skill some for ATK up. So, suddenly that looks pretty good; she can keep going and going where the strat will burn up Momi and Mystia's mp fast unless you're like, Magician Mystia with Ill-Starred Dive for max mp longevity (which isn't the worst idea in this build, either- occasional chorus master for SIL when possible)

Her base atk is absolutely garbage but it's much easier to patch that up in postgame, and easier to use her cheap library when she'd literally only care about ATK and a minor spd investment. Still really bothered by good def enemies, but super drill will exist.

It also makes Mystia's party-mp-on-concentrate somewhat better because with 900 delay it's not entirely pointless. Giving them some mp recovery boosts and just concentrating with Kogasa's fast turns to deal with mp isn't such a bad idea either, as they'd still get more attack turns than most other attackers would, but... hrm. And huh, Swordmaster Momiji using the mp recovery attack... (as post-awakening Momiji is perfect for that sub as it is)

and so I sit here and tweak my future party design as I wait for 3peso to finish it. Fitting in Kogasa/Momiji/Mystia was surprisingly non-difficult, but swapping a spot for Chen too might take a tougher decision >.> Currently looking at a final goal party of...
Renko/Byakuren/Kogasa support core (all of which regen hp and provide buffage after kogasa eventually has dragon god sub- I might not be using her until then anyway??? kogasa regen should be A+ with renko's potential hp and might encourage hp byakuren build depending on how stuff scales postgame, I'd have to see)
Meiling/Futo big damage reduction bulky attackers (mountain breaker is sooo goood and meiling's soooo durable)
Miko/Nitori maintenance bulky attackers (and miko can eventually clear off boss buffs! Yay! also eventually increases everyone's buffs even in the backline!)
Maribel/Rumia damage/support hybrids that also cover my healing (Rumia's bulk is actually not half bad, either, and Maribel should -rock- after awakening- plus vision sharing! MOAR BUFFS FOR ALL)
Momiji/Mystia instant attackers for Kogasa to megaswap
Hina for debuffs. (After awakening she might be pretty good as an attacker hybrid? I'd see about that later. I DO have Hina+Momi+Nitori for awakening synergy team...) Futo+Rumia could also both deal all status effects.

I guess if it worked out well enough I'd drop one of the bulky attackers for Chen- unless Rumia and Miko's awakening debuffs were accurate enough to replace hina, dooooubt it though, more like just make it easier to run Hina as a hybrid offense. RIGHT NOW, my party is that, except Kogasa is Rinnosuke tank, and Futo/Miko/Momi/Mystia are instead Kaguya/Eirin/Yuyuko/Iku (who I've been swapping between iku/shikieiki sometimes). Eirin's overheal is REALLY good, I'll see how I feel about it postgame, but I'm okay with losing the defense ignorers (I can swap them in with glass cannon only investment levels for relevant bosses postgame) and Yuyuko's painful library cost, level rate, and lack of damage boost passives actually makes her a -lot- less useful in bosses than I expected from her great stats and useful moves.

If I have to I'll swap Rumia for Reimu :C But I don't wanna. I think I won't need to?? And until I start using the Kogasa combo I'd just keep on with Rinno/Eirin/Iku prolly. Iku gets a lot nicer in plus, huge speed increase, counter works now... if I don't like it I'll swap back to Shikieiki again :V Kaguya now that gambler is nerfed is sad and it's hard to make her fast enough to ever use in randoms :T And dropping Rinno for Kogasa will make it really hard to use her in bosses either.

Technically Kogasa means amazing potential for Satori/Reisen combo but I'd have to make some painful character tossouts so if anything, it would be a gimmick I'd swap in on certain bosses as satori/reisen would ONLY need some hp investment. ezpz. (But satori would need awakening so that'd be a seriously lategame thing if it's only for sometimes... it's something I'd do on dumb corridor bosses??)

[RegalStar]

Atwiki posted the extra effects of Mamizou's Transformation in Ten Danmaku that I didn't find. Here's the list:

FIR: MAG multiplier up
CLD: HVY, SHK
WND: SPD Down
NTR: PSN, PAR
MYS: MP cost 6->4
SPI: Postuse 4000->6600
DRK: ATK, MAG down
PHY: Damage multiplier up

[Serela]

Hmmm... the move would be pretty interesting against an enemy either weak to WND or not weak to anything (choose for effect, not for hitting weakness! That gets pretty good!) but the rest of the time... you're just gonna pick for weakness. It's not even realistic to use it in randoms, apart from as the generic base version. (She's got a fast enough normal to get an element, but you'd just have to live with whatever element you rolled...)

So it's a move where the design kind of surpasses the realistic realm of use. Still, when the desired weakness aligns or they're weak to WND/nothing, it's interesting. It would also be interesting if she was more suited to running as a support character (choose your status/debuffs!) but alas.

[dawnbomb]

did a big patch hit yet?

[Serela]

Nope! You can use this page to keep track.
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2P/top.html
You can see where it lists the new version updates.

Someone will mostly likely post here about it day of the patch, though. I know I check almost once a day >.>