Author Topic: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)  (Read 206485 times)

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2015, 11:13:25 PM »
You've asked this question like 10 times between the Indiegogo and here. The lack of answer seems both deliberate and reasonable because it's possible they haven't figured it out yet.

YEah probably, i was starting to get that feeling. Sorry for being a pain about that. That's the only thing holding me back from tossing that much money, so wanted to make sure.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2015, 12:26:01 AM »
Actually it's more just me being way too busy answering all comments between youtube and facebook all day.

Yea you get to give us an outline for the character, though it will not dictate how we actually work her in, it will influence it to a good degree.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2015, 12:32:52 AM »
Actually it's more just me being way too busy answering all comments between youtube and facebook all day.

Yea you get to give us an outline for the character, though it will not dictate how we actually work her in, it will influence it to a good degree.

Ah ok. thanks for the answer... I'll probably go for that route then soon. if no one takes it. Tewi is just awesome

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2015, 12:49:06 AM »
Compliments on the speed at which all of this is achieved, even just the development progress. I don't have the money to get any nice rewards in (Though I'm sure anyone would want to pick a character, obviously) but I'll keep following this nonetheless! I can always hope for Orin...  :V

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2015, 02:45:19 AM »
For people wondering why each maiden is more expensive than the next.

To be frank, paying people to animate and voice a character for 135+ animations would defiantly be more than $2,500. I simply made the first 2 less because I wanted to give people a chance, and it also encourages people who really want it to do it sooner.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2015, 03:09:46 AM »
For people wondering why each maiden is more expensive than the next.

To be frank, paying people to animate and voice a character for 135+ animations would defiantly be more than $2,500. I simply made the first 2 less because I wanted to give people a chance, and it also encourages people who really want it to do it sooner.

Makes sense. now I'm more tempted to jump in now...

EDIT: And I did, after seeing your youtube FAQ video. Answered all my questions. I am pretty sure ZUN will allow this if you and your translator explain it.

Question, has the game started to appear on japan forums? You may want to get your friend to translate your indiegogo for them as well. Skullgirls got a lot of money from japan when they translated their indiegogo.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 03:31:27 AM by zferolie »

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2015, 06:45:16 AM »
For people wondering why each maiden is more expensive than the next.

To be frank, paying people to animate and voice a character for 135+ animations would defiantly be more than $2,500. I simply made the first 2 less because I wanted to give people a chance, and it also encourages people who really want it to do it sooner.

I don't really get why you'd have to pay people to work on a fan game at this point in time; you basically make it sound like you're going to hire employees to work for you,  rather than take people in that are as motivated and invested in the project as you... Or something like that. Maybe I have a flawed view of how other doujin works are made.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 06:51:23 AM by Flandre5carlet »

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2015, 07:18:48 AM »
I don't really get why you'd have to pay people to work on a fan game at this point in time; you basically make it sound like you're going to hire employees to work for you,  rather than take people in that are as motivated and invested in the project as you... Or something like that. Maybe I have a flawed view of how other doujin works are made.


Even if they wanted to, most professional artists can't afford to work for free, especially on a big project like this.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2015, 07:21:44 AM »
So Along with my pick of Tewi, Shinki will also be in the game. I am quite excited to see how she will play

Also, for those who didn't see this update, the creators made an FAQ video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBh8JtxShmk

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2015, 07:29:16 AM »
Seriously, criticisms about the characters' faces are pretty much everywhere!  Youtube even has someone saying s/he came to respect ZUN's art style after seeing these models!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 07:38:00 AM by game2011 »

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2015, 07:32:35 AM »
Seriously, complaints about the characters' faces are pretty much everywhere!  Youtube even has someone saying s/he came to respect ZUN's art style after seeing these models!

What? But EoSD Sakuya is the face of death! Really though these models are not bad at all. Their not AAA models (cause ya know, more polys can get expensive) but have you seen some of the games that get released on steam?! Those people have no right to complain without being constructive on how to make the models better.
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2015, 07:37:48 AM »
At least get the face done right.  Someone on Youtube did suggest ways to make it better.

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2015, 07:50:45 AM »
At least get the face done right.  Someone on Youtube did suggest ways to make it better.

We spent quite some time trying to help fix the models but I'd guess that most of use that tried are not very good at 3d modeling, but if they have good advice for it, that's great! But I've got a feeling it'll take a while since I believe faces are not very high on the priority list...
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2015, 08:03:35 AM »
What that Youtube suggestion said:
Quote
Okay you mentioned the thing about art style so I thought i'd voice my opinion and thoughts. The reason some people think the characters look so strange is because you have a face that looks somewhere in between barbie and a real life face. While this isn't a bad thing you then have anime-ish hair framing that face. This makes the faces look very strange due to the fact that the faces have a clear element of realism to them causing the models to fall somewhere in the uncanny valley. It doesn't help that the eyes appear straight black at a glance.

If you slim down the jaw and cheeks just a bit more and give the features a slightly more cartoonish look to them it will help.

There are also suggestions of using MMD designs.

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2015, 08:10:59 AM »
What that Youtube suggestion said:
There are also suggestions of using MMD designs.

Good suggestion, I think they explained that odd feeling people get when seeing them. But the MMD things has been talked about to death in topic early on, even to the point where someone got verbally violent about not using them IIRC.
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2015, 08:14:48 AM »
But the MMD things has been talked about to death in topic early on
And the conclusion was?

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2015, 08:33:17 AM »
IIRC someone else's asset = no go, all assets that are to be used for this game should be made with the express purpose of being used in this game.

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2015, 08:33:38 AM »
And the conclusion was?

Big nope, they wanted to make their own models for their game and not use someone else. I'd agree, as cool as they are and it being easy, it just doesn't feel right as a designer to use other peoples work. Plus since this is being sold they'd have complications selling it with MMD models.
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2015, 08:39:53 AM »
At least get the face done right.  Someone on Youtube did suggest ways to make it better.

Ye-- no, that's not what he said.

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2015, 09:33:16 AM »
So for posterity, to summarize what is said in the video, the GS System card game Kickstarter had not actually received a shutdown order from ZUN. Rather, they faced two problems:

they were unable to find a suitable distribution channel;
and they were unable to continue communication with ZUN using only Google Translate.

Hmm, I wonder how they managed to commission those artworks from Japanese artists if they have no access to English-Japanese translators at all, but I guess there's an established system for that.
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2015, 10:39:04 AM »
Ye-- no, that's not what he said.
S/he clearly is talking about the face.
Quote
Okay you mentioned the thing about art style so I thought i'd voice my opinion and thoughts. The reason some people think the characters look so strange is because you have a face that looks somewhere in between barbie and a real life face. While this isn't a bad thing you then have anime-ish hair framing that face. This makes the faces look very strange due to the fact that the faces have a clear element of realism to them causing the models to fall somewhere in the uncanny valley. It doesn't help that the eyes appear straight black at a glance.

If you slim down the jaw and cheeks just a bit more and give the features a slightly more cartoonish look to them it will help.

Flandre5carlet

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2015, 01:56:38 PM »
So for posterity, to summarize what is said in the video, the GS System card game Kickstarter had not actually received a shutdown order from ZUN. Rather, they faced two problems:

they were unable to find a suitable distribution channel;
and they were unable to continue communication with ZUN using only Google Translate.

Hmm, I wonder how they managed to commission those artworks from Japanese artists if they have no access to English-Japanese translators at all, but I guess there's an established system for that.

As a backer of that project myself, I just went and looked back at the kickstarter updates, and it reads the following:

Quote from: GS System
We, and Team Shanghai Alice, have concluded that Kickstarter is not an appropriate method regarding production of dōjinshi materials for Touhou Project. The reason for this is because receiving funds before production is considered an investment, and a method like this can not yet be recognized with the production of dōjinshi materials for Touhou Project.

It's especially worrying that they've started it supposedly without hearing back from ZUN, especially when they seem to misrepresent or misunderstand the above statement by saying that "ZUN didn't shut it down, they did so themselves." Yes. They shut it down themselves. But they themselves stated that they did so because "Kickstarter is not an appropriate method regarding production of doujin material."
I can only hope, for the sake of the project, that this view of his has changed now. Else you may find yourself in the same situation.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 02:30:31 PM by Flandre5carlet »

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2015, 02:33:47 PM »
Yeah I'm still wondering about that quote, as it has yet to be explained. Though, making a claim like "ZUN didn't actually shut down the project" in public where GS can easily show up and be like "no you're wrong" is ballsy, so I expect there are at least a few grains of truth.

Also, I was the one who put in for Shinki, because she never ever will get a real presence in a fan game unless the makers happen to be fans or...well, this happens, and a fan gets to pitch in. And now that Yuuka, Shinki, and Shikieiki are all in the game...my life is complete :P

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2015, 02:56:14 PM »
Yeah I'm still wondering about that quote, as it has yet to be explained. Though, making a claim like "ZUN didn't actually shut down the project" in public where GS can easily show up and be like "no you're wrong" is ballsy, so I expect there are at least a few grains of truth.

Also, I was the one who put in for Shinki, because she never ever will get a real presence in a fan game unless the makers happen to be fans or...well, this happens, and a fan gets to pitch in. And now that Yuuka, Shinki, and Shikieiki are all in the game...my life is complete :P

Well, it's technically true to say that ZUN didn't shut down the Kickstarter. But it'd be deliberately hiding the fact that he also stated Kickstarter can't be recognized with the production of doujin material, which is why it was shut down.

I see your point for Shinki. At least it's not Mima. >> Just not particularly fond of Shinki personally, ha. Also Eiki? Since when?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 03:02:21 PM by Flandre5carlet »

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2015, 03:14:47 PM »
Since about an hour ago. I split the cost with a friend so we could get a character in that we both really like and wouldn't have had a chance otherwise.
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2015, 03:21:06 PM »
Cool. I like Eiki. So that one's nice.

Now when's Flandre and Kaguya--
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 03:31:59 PM by Flandre5carlet »

Alcoraiden

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2015, 03:38:26 PM »
Yeah I have to say I am quietly laughing as a thousand Mima fans cried out "SO CLOSE" and were silenced. XD I'm neutral on Mima, but her massive fan push amuses me greatly.

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2015, 03:59:32 PM »
Since about an hour ago. I split the cost with a friend so we could get a character in that we both really like and wouldn't have had a chance otherwise.

Don't take it out of context, but I love you! Being able to see Shikieki in action will be a dream come true! Thank you!
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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2015, 04:04:50 PM »
Don't take it out of context, but I love you! Being able to see Shikieki in action will be a dream come true! Thank you!

Seconded. I'm glad we get to see her kick some butt. ^^

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2015, 04:32:30 PM »
So, so far we have 8 characters confirmed. Tewi, Shinki, Eiki, Reimu, Tenshi, Sakuya, Yuuka, and 1 fan vote.  I am going to assume the last 4 the team will decide, if they only reach the normal go(with only 1400 or so to go, that is easy)

I am not sure if they will add more character choice slots, but if they reach more character goals adding a few would easily secure them a lot of money, if more people split money like you guys or go insane like me.

I like how they have said no others have been planned yet. I still think Marisa will get in the original 12, because it is marisa, even though they haven't decided yet.

Who else would you guys want? I myself want Okuu, Orin, Yuugi, Kaguya, Mouku, Cirno, Yukari, Flandre, the three miscevious fairies as 1, Reisen, Eirin, Sukuna, Kasen, Rinnosuke(dan a gogo), Chen and Ran Duo, Yomou, and Kanako.