Author Topic: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing  (Read 14752 times)

ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« on: May 29, 2009, 04:40:49 PM »
So I've just started my first Fifteenth *I've lost count* normal run of SA.


Wtf.  FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFU-  :'(

Might as well keep this first post updated. I had no idea what to expect from Normal Utsuho but I must have had a magic spark of luck in that boss fight which fizzled out before the end.

Most recent attempts:

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3446 - Up to beginning stage 6

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3447 - Stage 6... FFFFFF-
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 06:02:03 PM by Anonymity »

Stuffman

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2009, 06:09:58 PM »
It isn't so much that SA is a lot more difficult, it seems more like Reimu and Marisa are just much weaker. Basically all shot types except Reimu A have low damage or are impractical to use, and SA has the weakest bombs in the series so bombing doesn't actually get you through trouble spots.

I prefer to let Knockout in Three Steps get to its second step before moving inside it. I think that one is actually her easiest card aside from the shield bubble one, but the midboss swirly gives me problems too.

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2009, 06:40:53 PM »
Tried again, got owned in stage 3 by the blue lasers (i hate lasers in touhou, always bomb through sea cucumber in MoF), Captured the swirly though :D Don't know if it saved, I ragequit after losing my last life on the cats first attack in stage 4 :(.

I think I've narrowed down my main 2 problems, I don't bomb enough (it took me ages to learn to bomb properly on MoF, i would spend whole stages at 5 power for no real reason) and I move around too much (seriously, I make some things a lot harder for myself by moving around so much when I can just stream instead). I just don't know how to cure the problem :S

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 07:40:52 PM »
Replay added, any tips would be good :D

hyorinryu

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2009, 01:40:49 AM »
I agree that what SA not so hard isn't the patterns, but the bombs. In any other game, a one bomb would get you through a card and some, unless the boss had invicibilty. In this game you can use two bombs and the card will be nowhere near over(Nuclear Fusion, I'm looking at you).btw, using marisa A, how many bombs do I need to plant on Utsuho's cards before they die?

*currently under repair*
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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2009, 01:54:54 AM »
HEY ANONY!

So anyways...
So I've just started my first normal run of SA.

Wtf.
=3
Quote
Currently on stage 4, and I remember why I dislike this game already.
Already had numerous close calls, died on the stage 1 boss, and I have no idea how to get past the stage 3 midboss spell card. My graze meter is already 800 and something.. christ.
Stage 3 Midboss card is the same everytime, at least the first wave. The second one is the same, but she can move to two different positions. Use ReimuA, because she can kill the midboss card after the first wave at at least 3 power. So just learn the first wave, and you should be able to capture it 99% of the time. A tip would be to not stay exactly at the bottom. And I have 1.5k graze by that time. =3
Quote
Also died on Knockout in Three Steps, or whatever its called, despite being told that the second "step" of bullets wouldn't spawn on top of me.. they did.
Uh, the second step will. It's the third step that won't. But don't sit at the bottom for obvious reasons. Stay on the Border of the second and third steps.

I'll watch the replay later.

Zetzumarshen

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2009, 03:34:51 AM »
I agree that what SA not so hard isn't the patterns, but the bombs. In any other game, a one bomb would get you through a card and some, unless the boss had invicibilty. In this game you can use two bombs and the card will be nowhere near over(Nuclear Fusion, I'm looking at you).btw, using marisa A, how many bombs do I need to plant on Utsuho's cards before they die?

Utsuho has the most health of all Touhou stage 6 windows games. For Nuclear Fission, it is better to try to shoot Utsuho as long as you can before releasing a bomb. If i remember correctly, three bombs (reimu A) is still not enough to take down that spell if released consecutively. 

Garlyle

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2009, 09:58:46 AM »
Quote
Also died on Knockout in Three Steps, or whatever its called, despite being told that the second "step" of bullets wouldn't spawn on top of me.. they did.

Knockout in Three Steps is easiest this way, I find:
1. Move to the end of the second step [the spell card ring marks it]
2. Once step three starts, move backwards with its formation.  Since bullets in step three won't spawn on you, bam!  Free area at the bottom
3. Repeat

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2009, 02:07:20 PM »
Wow, I didn't expect so many replies while I was asleep ^^ I'm not used to people being helpful on the internet...  ;D

I actually made another replay last night around an hour or two after my last post, but never bothered to upload it, so here it is:

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3441

I'm kinda commenting on it while I'm watching the replay now, sorry if it gets long.

Only got hit once by Yuugi, which makes a change, although there was a couple of close calls (Swirly, and KO when the second row spawned come to mind), but I find that the majority of my deaths are coming from the lasers and the fairies.

Didn't find stage 4 all that bad up till the boss, managed 2 deathbombs that should have been avoided and possibly that first normal bomb when I got cornered near the end of the cats attack. Shouldn't have died on Recollection "Terrible Souvenir" but I sneezed and thought that I had nudged my way free >_<. By the way, what game are her ReimuA recollections from? I know 3 spell cards from the entire list on touhou.wikia... that sucks

First butterfly one was horrible, had no idea what was going on and I bombed too much. Flying Insects Nest, however, looking back at it I really think that I could have captured that first time around if I didnt panic. Border of wave and particle on the other hand... *cries*

I have no idea how I managed to time out the first cat attack on stage 5, but I didn't know that doing that would stop me having to do its second attack and cats walk as well :S

The wierd "eye" shaped bullets afterwards though, I shouldn't have died. I know theres a tiny space of time for deathbombing, but I swear I bombed before I hit that bullet >_<. Then major fail on the second wave, didn't think the bullets would spread out that far :P

I'll watch the replays Heartbeam posted, give it another few trys before I re edit this post (*previews* my god this is long already).

EDIT: It's wierd... After watching that stage 3 pacifist run, I get through the stage part no problems just by copying your streaming method. But when I tried to do that on the bosses attacks in the main fight, I lost 3 lives :(

And I can't actually do Storm on Mount Ooe using any focus at all, I can only barely scrape through using unfocused's speed.

Quote from: Heartbeam
If you ask for one I'll try to make it pretty with pictures and with a new run.

Oh pretty with pictures and a new run if you have the spare time please :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 09:24:35 PM by Anonymity »

hyorinryu

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2009, 02:19:26 PM »
I asked this on my thread, does anyone have Utsuho's practice unlocked for Marisa A. Many times I've entered her stage with six not makng it past Giga Flare.

*currently under repair*
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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2009, 03:46:32 PM »
Marisa A.
There's your problem. Don't use Marisa. Her hitbox is too big.

hyorinryu

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2009, 04:02:37 PM »
Yeah, but I like having 8 bombs, plus I can't do any of the other Satoris consistantly.
Also, Marisa makes Stage 5 sooo much easier with her spread.

*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2009, 06:47:35 PM »
There's your problem. Don't use Marisa. Her hitbox is too big.

It's size may affect Lunatic runs, but beyond that it's negligable at best. If you're complaining about her hitbox size at Hard mode and below, then you're probably not dodging the patterns the way you should be. Even at the lunatic level, it's pretty wussy to even mention it.

Marisa is fine to use, and MAlice does the most damage, so you'll kill things quicker. The eight bombs aren't as good as they sound, they do so little damage and don't last very long. You have to shotgun them to be effective, which isn't something I recommend doing if you're barely managing with Normal mode. Reimu A tends to be the easiest character to use because you can appear on the other side of the screen and it has a solid shot type. Reimu C isn't bad either, if you'd rather bomb your way through the game instead of gaining skill. Also has a fairly easy Satori. Reimu C if you're just looking to unlock Extra.

Honestly, Normal mode in SA is fairly difficult compared to the Normal mode in any other game, so if you're having a big problem with it and Easy mode is too boring, try Normal mode Mountain of Faith or Perfect Cherry Blossom. They're more forgiving and still have some skill spots towards the end to test your playing ability.

hyorinryu

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2009, 08:23:12 PM »
Just wondering, who's attack is in that pic of yours?

*currently under repair*
Puzzle Dragon stuff

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2009, 08:29:05 PM »
Updated first post with my new replay. So damn close, I was gutted  >:(
« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 09:24:59 PM by Anonymity »

LHCling

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2009, 09:51:11 PM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3448

For the first part of the stage, I would suggest you take out as many crows as possible, to spare some trouble for the waves of spirits. Less kunai to move through this way. And with ReimuA, they should go down quickly.

With the waves of spirits, it might seem a bit awkward, but memorization is the key. Or just use your "gap" ability constantly. Note that I stay unfocused to utilize a greater attack spread. And if possible, avoid letting the spirits move down towards the bottom of the screen, as it will probably force you to bomb.

Which brings us to Youkai "Blazing Wheel". Don't stand at the bottom of the screen, or you will have to resort to unfocused dodging, which is quite nasty. Instead, place yourself above the bottom a little bit, and you can still weave through while focused completely.

The 2nd half of the stage I think you got covered.

Moving along, ignoring Utsuho's 1st attack phase, we go straight to Atomic Fire "Nuclear Fusion". This Spell Card, is frustrating. I can't even seem to get it down every time, probably because of the density of the bullets. To minimize the time spent on this Spell Card (less time = less chance of dying / bombing), I would suggest directing the mini-suns away from the center. Apart from that, there's not much to add on.

Utsuho's 2nd attack phase is better off partially learnt. From the point she shoots bubble bullets, move to the right. It is much easier than moving to the left. When she shoots bubble bullets again, this time, move to the left. Repeat.

Next Spell Card on the list is Explosion Sign "Mega Flare". This Spell Card can generate walls and other whatnot. If you're desperate for the Star Piece that drops, move quickly to the top of the screen and back down. There should be enough time for you to do this without dying. Remember to unfocus. The Spell Card itself, is just quite frankly, pure dodging. Watch for the smaller blue bullets though. They can conceal themselves within the mini-suns.

Utsuho's 3rd phase, I assume you panic bombed. If you're still having trouble, then try to move relative to her position. (e.g. If she moves left and up, you move left and up in the same amount)

Blazing Star "Fixed Star" is anti-newbie to put it bluntly. The mini-suns are a lot smaller than what they were for the previous two Spell Cards. If you watch my replay, you can see that I can get pretty close without dying. Minimize the vertical dodging. But don't remove all of it, even though it's entirely possible to do this Spell Card without vertical dodging (I wouldn't take the risk).

Utsuho's 4th phase, is like the 2nd phase, but only faster. Also, eye-blinding yellow bubbles! Anyway, like above, but this time, move to the left first. Then the right.

"Hell and Heaven Meltdown". I don't know why people try to dodge directly from the center. Personally, I find it more difficult that way. Your call. I dodge from the side a bit. If you're going to dodge from the side (out of preference), then take note not to get stuck on the side.

"Hell's Artificial Sun". Practice. I really didn't see anything wrong apart from the usual clipdeath. Though, minimize moving out too far to the side.
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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2009, 06:54:38 AM »
Quote from: BaitySM
Utsuho's 3rd phase, I assume you panic bombed. If you're still having trouble, then try to move relative to her position. (e.g. If she moves left and up, you move left and up in the same amount)

Yeah, it was a panic bomb. From easy I'm used to moving right into the middle of the attack, in the open, but in normal theres another 2 lines of bullets that cross right where I normally move to, so I wasn't expecting it.

Quote
"Hell and Heaven Meltdown". I don't know why people try to dodge directly from the center. Personally, I find it more difficult that way. Your call. I dodge from the side a bit. If you're going to dodge from the side (out of preference), then take note not to get stuck on the side.

I was dodging from the center because I thought there was some kind of safespot there? Or am I just making things up :\

Zengar Zombolt

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2009, 07:45:07 AM »
I was dodging from the center because I thought there was some kind of safespot there? Or am I just making things up :\
It's the exact opposite, thanks to the Suns that are obviously bigger on the center, you have less space to dodge.

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2009, 08:20:16 AM »
Damn, wonder which card it was where there's a safespot, then :S

hyorinryu

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2009, 02:19:09 PM »
It's the exact opposite, thanks to the Suns that are obviously bigger on the center, you have less space to dodge.

The reason I do it is because vertical bullets are easier to read.

*currently under repair*
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Garlyle

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2009, 03:19:53 PM »
Man, at least you're able to reach Utsuho.

For some reason I hit stage 4/5 and it's like running into a brick wall.  Not even the bosses either... but the stages.  I keep getting nailed by stupidly easy patterns that I shouldn't be.  It might be because I'm using MarisaB, but I wanna pull it off with a non-typical team, and I really enjoy the freedom MarisaB gives you [seriously, I wanna see or maybe make a Marisa B 'showoff' run sometime just to show how much she wastes some sections].  Plus, Satorichouli is really easy.

It might be because of my stubborn stupidity and playing with the no-hitbox patch.  Which, btw, makes Utsuho even more frightening because even focusing doesn't always give you a clear marker of your location... But yeah.

I really should be able to do this.  I've 1cc'd Normal EoSD-PoFV, cleared 50 scenes in StB, almost 1cc'd MoF, beaten IN and PoFV on Lunatic, gotten almost every last word in IN... how can I -NOT- do this!?

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2009, 07:24:55 PM »
Heartbeam, that is awesome  :o


I didn't actually believe you about the collision box thing at the start, but its true :S
Although after reading your last comment I'm wondering how long the original post was ;P


Garlyle, I feel you on the stages. Especially stage 5.. I can finish Satori with around 3 and a half lifes left now but I cant get onto stage 6 anymore... Dead before Orin. Stage 6 is like the calm before the storm, the stage part is surprisingly easy compared to other touhou stage 6's (IN Final B and PCB come to mind) - Guessing about PCB, I can only just do it on easy >_>

Garlyle

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2009, 02:42:23 AM »
Quote
Garlyle, I feel you on the stages. Especially stage 5.. I can finish Satori with around 3 and a half lifes left now but I cant get onto stage 6 anymore... Dead before Orin. Stage 6 is like the calm before the storm, the stage part is surprisingly easy compared to other touhou stage 6's (IN Final B and PCB come to mind) - Guessing about PCB, I can only just do it on easy >_>

I know.  The thing is, I -know- I can beat Stage 4 without taking a hit, because I perfect it roughly 50% of the time in practice (No lives lost/bombs used).  MarisaB handles Orin exceedingly well, and Satori-Patch has two of the easiest Satori spellcards [Philosopher's Stone can be made easier by dodging about 1/3 of the way up, actually, because one bullet type will all flow below you].  But, despite that, I lose pretty much every life when I actually have to do it during a run (I lost FIVE last time T.T).

Quote
Stage Two

Reminder to self: Practice stage 2 and record a Marisa B showoff replay, because she WASTES that stage like nobody else.

Garlyle

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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2009, 03:07:03 PM »
Marisa & Patchouli go to Parsee's Castle (And waste it)

Highlights:

-Only six enemies ever get to fire at me other than Parsee.  Everything else is killed too fast.  A lot of the time I don't even move!
-Marisa B gets to have so much fun against Green Eyed Monster and Grandpa Hanasaka.  These weren't my best runs against 'em either.  I've done GEM at least a second faster (!), and GH about a second and a half.
-The final card, Midnight Anathema Ritual, is Marisa B's only chance to effectively show off the unbelievable attack power of Earth Sign (Rear formation) because, well... let's just say, just watch.

It took about half an hour to get a perfect replay due to pickiness, experimenting, and how ridiculously easy it is to die trying to do what I did for Midnight Anatema Ritual.

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2009, 06:21:03 PM »
Garlyle.. thats awesome!  :o

That midnight anathema ritual was a close call man, I just wouldn't mind knowing how the hell you didn't get hit by mb parsee's aimed blue arrow circle attack thing, second I try something like that I get killed  :P


Quote from: Heartbeam
If you want one for PCB Normal just pick a shot type and I'd love to do a little how-to for that.  My love for SA is only topped by that game.  Moving on.

How strange... your two favourite games are my least favourite ^_^' Maybe its because I'm terrible at them >_>

A PCB 1CC is a long long way off for me yet, I find the stage 5 bosses (Yukuko? or something, or is it Youmu? The one with the sword, its one of the two) non spell cards too confusing on EASY :'(

Heartbeam

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2009, 09:25:12 PM »
Here it is, an unpolished pile of words that may not say what I mean.

This game in the series may have a little more demand on memorization to alleviate the stress of dodging, but there is still upfront dodging, so...

Practice, get comfortable around bullets and pay attention to where the bullets aren't, not where they are.   Map out their trajectories, some portions of attacks are best handled by not moving at all.  Learn streaming.  Figure out where the enemies pop out and decide the best path to take to eliminate them to create a larger space to roam, you might need that freedom in the next few seconds.

----------Spoilers!----------

Stage One
Replay


Oh, it's already horrible.  Dispose of the fairies however you wish to.  The small ones in this section don't have a collision box.


Welcome to Stage One!  Blow up the rock and pick off the large fairy from the right, then the left.  Or the left then right.  Saying as the picture shows.


Fairies dropping in.  Feel free to hang out at the POC and as long as you keep moving the shots won't touch you.  When the fairies come down from both sides stay in the middle and only move when forced to.


Kisume is self-explanatory, moving on.  Now there's stuff to grab.  We can POC but if you disposed of her in a timely manner then there will be extra fairies dropping in to make things slightly difficult.  We could also stick very close to her and dodge her attack from there, maxing out the communications gauge and automatically collect the goodies upon her removal.  Or just sit in front of the stuff and get it as it comes down, mindful of the occasional bullet from the extra fairy.  We can also start from the side of the item group then avoid the bullets right into it.

Next we're greeted by double fairies and a rock.  If you took too long on Kisume and they come out right after then take one of them out and run up to POC on that side.  There's time to remove the other fairy and the rock but mainly the rock so it won't be a nuisance in just a bit.

It should be noted that the small fairies dropping in at this point will stop shooting once they're about halfway down the screen, on Normal.  I *think* only the blue ones actually fire bullets on Normal.


After descending further we now have two streams of fairies coming down.  Pick a side and destroy the two red ones then move across to remove the larger fairy.  After that hang around for a bit, maybe move down to avoid the attack from the other fairy but stay over there until you take out the other red fairies streaming down.


...after that, move back to the side where you first shot down the red fairies, you should be picking up the power items directly.  Destroy the last large fairy then run up and hit the POC.



There's a lot you can get away with on Yamame's opener with the aimed red bullets.  You can even avoid the entire attack with as few as two taps.  The other stuff, dodge it as you see it.


Stage Two
Replay
Replay Alt. (for maxing out the gauge)

That alt. replay is so bad.  I don't practice the post-midboss Parsee section enough.  There is also starting at the top in the middle and streaming down for a continued max gauge, then tapping left and right as the bullets pass.


Stage Two greets you!  The beginning fairies are weak enough that you do not need to move at all to shoot them down before they start firing, even at base power.  Sit there and take in the items.  For the next set of enemies pick a side and stream.  If you're somehow hurting for power then let the fairies from the very beginning fire so that you may have something to max out your gauge with.  Then closely stream the mix of purple and blue bullets to keep the auto-collect going.  You may want to start a little closer to the middle so the fairies coming out have a chance to shoot, but not directly between both sides or you'll risk not shooting down all the fairies as they'll cross each other at about the same time.


Next we have this.  Know where they drop in for easier removal and fewer bullets to handle.  Next section is also simple.  If you have space you can follow them as they move side to side to take them out quicker.  Maxing the gauge to collect the stuff shouldn't be necessary but is shown in the alt. replay.


Parsee makes her entrance.  Simple matter of redirecting her blue shots then moving into one of the gaps to the side of that dense wave.  Or because she drops 1.50 worth of power items (excluding Alice companion), upon her defeat you can bomb this attack (and maybe fly around a bit to max out the gauge to get the star).  I should have put that in the alt. replay instead.   You seem to have her spell down fine, and if you're feeling a little bolder you can try to keep your movements to a minimum as you move up and even on top of her sprite for a quick capture.  Remember, at the beginning of her spell you can still collide with her until she's surrounded by the blue outline.


Pick a side so you're destroying a set of fairies before they get to fire.  Then stream the yin-yang orbs that follow.

Moving straight past the boss's opener we now face this spell.  Circle around her, gap, or cut through the flowers to deal with this.  Be mindful of the green bullets when gapping and when she's about to fire (I put myself in a bad position this run by moving across too fast so there's still a wall that hasn't dissipated and she fires at me as I finish gapping).


Not much to say here.  The shots are aimed (even the small bullets).  Watch the bubble shot that may be pushing you up too close for comfort and plan a path for you to take to gain more freedom.  Her clone fires four bubble waves before switching so use that as an indicator to start moving yourself, or you can listen for when both assailants quit firing.  Either way, be mindful of where you're shooting.  Make use of the boss marker for the start of the spell if you'd like.

Final spell, misdirect for more freedom shooting at her and make use of the charging sound to know when to do so.  The alt. replay does a more efficient job of this.


General guideline!  Unnecessary words as follows:  it is clear that Parsee will be disposed of soon enough to not warrant giving any worries to the happenings around us, but there is planning going on most of the time and as these bullets intrude on our grounds it takes only a glancing thought to map out our route in case of emergency.  In this situation we see one such logical path.


Stage Three
Replay
Replay Alt. (pacifist)


This section is still weird for me.  The bullets are sparse enough that to max out the communications gauge you'll miss out on shooting down a few of the orbs, but I haven't tried going to the POC before moving down a bit to stream them.


Stage Three says hello.  If you're looking for more power then shooting down the left side is the way to go.  If POC hogging I'll wait until I shoot down the third fairy before moving all the way down to dodge the entirety of the three-way shot coming from the right side then stream the subsequent attacks.  After avoiding the shots I should be in the center, ready to greet the first purple yin-yang orb. 

You could also stay on the left side and stream down so you'll collect the power items from all five fairies.  You'll miss the opportunity to (quickly) shoot down the first laser-firing orb which also drops point items but it's all preference.  I just tried it, very nice.


This is where proper placement is a little more important.  You want to be at the right spots to take down the blue yin-yang so their constant shot streams won't push you around.  Plan your path to make it less stressful.


Blue ones are static, red ones are aimed.  At this level the blue lasers can be sidestepped but I see you've already figured that out.  If you are lined up in front of her you can vertically dodge the attacks even without shooting any of the orbs, but I recommend you do.


Bullets bouncing off walls, nothing special.  I hate to sound like a broken record but I'll repeat stuff already mentioned by myself and others.  Yugi's midboss spell looks worse than it really is.  When I was trying to 1CC this I'd bomb it everytime from intimidation.  The spiral bullet columns always unfold the same way, so learn a path (I like to start to the left of one of the columns on the first wave) and it'll work out in future runs.  Well, not really because she can move down a bit and the stuff will spawn based on that so you would also need to work out a path for that case or dodge it as it comes.


Starting right for power items then streaming left.  Maybe hang around the POC to get the first three fairies before moving down. 


Once done streaming to the left side the laser yin-yang orbs should be out.  If you wish you may bomb when a few more drop in to collect most, if not all of your power spent on the bomb and even some.


Standard stuff, I like to hang out on the left side so the star piece is easier to pick up.  Straight to the next noncard the blue and red lasers are both static within reason. 


Dodge it, bullets travelling diagonally can take some getting used to.  Getting lazy, and are my adjustments really that bad all the time? 


More bullets bouncing off walls, but it is no longer a 4-way shot.  Yugi's last noncard is definitely a thorn on the side if you let the initial opening fire with you directly below her.  Remember, the shots bounce off the walls so if you are running up to POC you can stay at the same level with her, against the left or right edge of the screen then slowly stream the bullets.  After that, try to stay halfway between the center of the screen and the edge to make it easier.

The method as pictured above instead directs the bullets to the side right away then running over to grab the items once she stops firing, then moving back near the aimed shots in preparation of the next wave.  I probably should have misdirected the first wave a little farther over so I wouldn't be so close to the center for the second wave.


On Easy you can reliably get away with staying near the first wave as the bullets open up right past you...Normal and up, not so much.  And yes, only the third wave will the bullets spawn around you.  Except on Lunatic.  The blue waves can be unfair at times and you may need to do a quick scan for an opening to the side once you have determined that the wave directly in front of you is too clustered to safely navigate.  I still have a problem with waiting for an opening to appear in front of me then trying to figure out a path elsewhere in desperation.


Stage Four
Replay


What do we have here!  After taking out the freebie enemies our new friend greets us with a little dodging exercise.  To keep the gauge maxed stay above the POC then move down to dodge the bullets at close range as she summons the first set of spirits.  Careful that she doesn't run into you. 


I recommend you pick a side to stay under one of the large fairies for the duration of this section.  The larger bullets are also based on your position and will linger into the next part of the stage.


Thanks to my laziness in hanging out in the middle for the previous section the stray bullets are covering some of the gaps for this section.  It could prove to be devastating in the higher difficulties.  If you're still in the middle then the blue lasers won't be a threat.  As the blue lasers pass you have the choice of staying in the middle to immediately deal damage to Orin as she drops by or relocate to the side to shoot down one of the columns of yin-yang orbs.


This is when focusing on where the bullets aren't help.  Follow the shifting column.  The shots fired by the spirits can be misdirected but it shouldn't be so severe at this level.  You may want to move over to take a few more out before they destruct.  Avoiding the purple amulet wave after the green yin-yang orbs is as simple as tapping over once they fire.


Wonderful streaming.  Don't be pressured by the aimed shots and take it slow.  At select points there will be a slight pause in the flow of smaller fairies which is your chance to head back in the other direction.  Alternatively, as you stream over you'll sit below one of the spawn points for the smaller fairies and you should be able to destroy them before they can fire, giving you room.  Unless one of the larger fairies cut across and soak up your damage, but it should be enough of a pause.


Another section with lasers then more purple amulets.  Again a simple matter of tapping over to avoid each wave fired.  If you're at a decent level of power and move to the middle before the last fairy enters you can destroy it before it is able to fire all of its shots, making the end of the attack much easier to handle.  If not then the attack is static so a route can be figured out.  Or just bomb it, it drops 20 small power items.


Alright, opener!  The simplest path takes one of the two sides indicated and most of the bullets will pass you.

 
This spell is simple enough to handle regularly but there are a number of spots to stand in to avoid the yellow bullets until necessary to move out of the homing lasers.  I don't know how often this happens to others but don't be intimidated by the lasers charging up and moving back into the other space only to hit a bullet that hasn't finished leaving the screen.


Same thing as her opener, one of the two sides to slide through and no worries dodging until the end where you nudge over to one side or the other.


A challenging one compared to the other spells of its difficulty.  BaitySM's post explains it quite nicely.  This spell didn't click for me until a month ago, history was a laughable 2/49.  You seem to have her third spell under control.  Just butterfly bullets that bounce off walls and fly to your character's position at the time of impact.


This spell is static but memorizing it is a little over the top.  What is worth knowing is when the bullets line up as shown in the image above.  You can choose to swing around the entire wave but it may be a little disorienting to reposition after that.  If you dodge through it then there's no need to make any adjustments for the wave right after shown in the second picture.  The gaps are all lined up.  There will be another such wave but of a much smaller magnitude so you can sidestep that one.  Oh, and try to dodge the bullets by looking a little further up the screen, using the shot to line up your character.


Safespotting!  You won't be able to utilize it immediately so a bomb is required.  Try to line your hitbox with the line shown and if it's going to be off-mark then try to miss it by being slightly under instead of over the line.  More leeway down there.  Bomb about half a second after she announces her spell to save the bonus.  The spell goes right into full motion on Lunatic so no need to expend a bomb there.


Stage Five
Replay

Explaining this one is going to be so bad.


Rows of spirits that send out aimed shots as they destruct.  Try for unfocused shooting.  More minimal dodging to quickly max out the gauge as the timer runs down on the rest of the spirits.


In this replay the yin-yang orb to the left is taken out followed by the one soon-to-spawn in the middle, then dispatching two more on the right before moving to the left to take out the next orb about to spawn.  Easy sailing from there.  The difficult part of this is maneuvering through the red bullets that have trailed you as you destroy the two orbs to the right.


More spirits sending out bullets as they are removed, so you don't have to shoot at all during this section.  If you still need power, fire at the yin-yang orb before moving to the edge of one of the bullet curtains to stream the spirits.  At 2.00 power and above on Normal as Reimu A you'll have the orb taken down before reaching the other side of the bullet curtain provided you stream slowly enough.  1.00 power is doable but cutting it close.


You're not dodging her first noncard from the bottom, excellent!  Cat's Walk is full of bullet reading and predictions, nothing more to say.


Oh, and this noncard.  Plan out a path from the bullets you see up there before they rain down on you, that way you can pay more attention to the next wave of bullets spawning and overlapping with the current wave.


Depending on the time taken to defeat midboss Orin there may be some green pellet spam with aimed shots then...this.  Hum, where to start.  Simply put, stream and gap.  Plan around the stray green pellets and be aware of the security of the other edge of the screen before you gap, maybe bombing beforehand.

Next we have two more yin-yang orbs to shower down bullets and spirits that only pose a threat when attacked.  You can take it easy or switch between shooting and cease fire to pick up items.  Another method is to sit there in front of the orb and bomb before the spirit bullets hit you, just about ensuring that you'll benefit from the power items dropped by both yin-yang orbs.


About making use of the safespot.  Reimu's feet touching Orin's face is close enough for this purpose, or lower yourself until her amulets are actually hitting something.  Orin will initially spawn two sets of blue and green waves.  After her second green wave she will move in a direction and will move again following a single set of blue and green waves from then on.  The black bar shown in the picture is a good location to be before she makes her move; safe from collision if she moves up and not too far away from her if she moves down, so no spawning of blue pellets.


Brute forcing this spell.  Remain at the top to draw the fairies up to you then swing down and blast everything.  Even if you took out her opener from the bottom there is plenty of time to move past the incapacitated fairies and lead them over.


Do not, do not dodge down when the spirits explode.  Not if you're looking for the easiest route.  The direction from which the aimed shots come and the layout of the static bullets will make dodging downward the equivalent of swimming upstream.


This is where I'm very bad with words.  Try to stay close to the waves coming out of the explosion so you won't be pushed out to the new ring of bullets created by the spirits.  Now it's just rambling.  I'll try to fix it later.


This attack can look overwhelming at times so the best advice I can offer is to read one set of bullets headed in one direction and dodge inside that.


A lovely pathfinding game.  Learn the size of the spirit wheels and listen to the sound to know when to move away from the wheel aimed at you.

Rekindling of Dead Ashes is another one I can't quite put into words.  Use your character to lure the fairies away then move in to shoot her down.  You are free to move over Orin's sprite and she will quit firing her blue pellets when you are on top of her.


Stage Six
Replay
Replay Alt. (pacifist)


Almost through.  Again, you may want to start from the side when shooting down the crows instead of the middle where they're converging and may cause you to miss out on a few.


If you're great with control then by all means, race around and shoot down every last crow in this section.  If not then there's the safer (and not as exciting) alternative of opting to shoot down all the crows coming from one side then gapping to the other.  The crows on that side will continue flying in the same direction and you won't have to worry about kunai falling down on you the same time the spirits show up.

The replay demonstrates the streaming section handled with minimal cut-backs, but as this post was intended for Reimu A please do, run and gap.  Know that if you place yourself in a situation where the spirits touch the bottom of the screen they will not fire at you when in such a low position, so you're still in the clear.  It is possible to take them out with care as they descend below the screen.  The pacifist replay shows such a scenario only it's still pacifist so they're not taken out, but you see what I mean.


Don't lose your tempo.  The waves are short enough that you can dodge it at the bottom focused the entire time.


More crows dropping by from both directions provided you made short work of Blazing Wheel.  The same method from earlier may be used but the threat level here is much lower because of the absence of aimed shots.


The attacks from these last two spirits are also static.  They drop 20 power items each so if you're already at max, now is a time to remove a minor risk.


Like Orin's Needle Mountain it's another pathfinding game, only with a larger object to avoid.  Note on the picture of the following noncard the rows of lingering bullets from the previous sweep.  Try to put yourself in a position to not have your space crowded in by those when dodging subsequent sweeping bullet waves.


Watch out for the bullets hiding in the suns.  Her next noncard is static around her position and although it shifts up and down there are spots that will remain safe as indicated by the placement of the horizontal line when standing below her.  Blue for Normal / Hard, purple for Lunatic.  These are based on the red rings in the background.  Because of its static nature there are spots closer to her that are popular for graze, easier to spot out are the two spots below her feet.  It exists on all difficulties but the margin of error on Lunatic is notably smaller.


The difficulty is fine for this spell but if you want to trivialize it then you can position yourself between the rotating runs and dodge everything horizontally.  There's plenty of leeway when touching the suns as shown in the picture, though I wouldn't push my luck and be that far in. 

Last nonspell.  This one is much easier than her second noncard thanks to the increase of gaps between each sweep of hers, but there can be some problems when she begins her next sweep while still firing the aimed bubble bullets.  What helps is that the direction of the bullet spreads from her sweep after her bubble waves is the same everytime, both ways (flip the pattern, of course).  It can be discerned from the screenshot that she is moving to the left so our larger gaps are to the right.  The two areas of interest are outlined and these are the spots one should try to end up in when streaming her shots.  The replay shows the rest.


So we can dodge Meltdown from the side or middle.  I used to have a hard time with the side because the bullets weren't moving straight up and down but I was also terrible dodging in the middle as well.  Not so cramped out there, so talking about the middle.  Horizontal movements are all you may need sometimes, but to make the best of the center position you want to be doing U-turns as necessary.  Just like Orin's last noncard you want to focus on one set of bullets moving in one direction and be able to comfortably switch to another.  Or you can look at both, one at a time may be worse.  The main point is instead of dodging both the bottom and top bullets we are only concentrating on one bullet pushing us up or down.  Let yourself get 'herded' by that bullet then move to the side (and possibly back up because there's another bullet moving in your lane) before you crash into the sun.

In short, don't dodge between both sets of bullets, dodge in their lanes.

The red bullet layout can look pretty cramped but you shouldn't need to give them more than a glance to move back and avoid them, worrying more about the openings in the waves spiraling outward from the sun.  The red bullets aren't patterned such that the one below the other is going to be directly lined up, but you should know to expect it to be there and that may ease the worry thanks to preparation.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 05:55:22 PM by Heartbeam »

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
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Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2009, 11:10:43 PM »
Midboss Parsee's opener gives lots of room on Normal and Easy.  Try to move at least two bullets from the 'center' before dodging, but other than that, they're honestly very tiny.

And yeah, MAR was close.  Because a certain amount of random offset is applied to bullet firing location, doing that is really risky... oh well.  Glad you enjoyed.

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2009, 07:05:18 AM »
*applause*

I'll give this a try soon, my touhouing will be cut short over the next few days, I have 5 exams before the 4th :(
(and then 5 from the 9th to the 24th.. what the hell)


I'll get round to it eventually, this, pcb and eosd.. -.-

Heartbeam

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2009, 03:53:13 PM »
Fixed up a few words, finished typing for the last few screenshots.  Not even the bolded words help in picking out the stages in that one post.  When you're ready I'd like to know what shot type you want to 1CC PCB with (please pick Reimu B, please pick Reimu B).

I have an idea here and there for the next set of explanations and will try to make the pictures easier to access.  I had a vague plan on what I wanted to accomplish for the post on SA, I didn't want to post a replay and say 'follow this' but also explain why it works and how it controls the shots around it.  In the end I realize there are certain things I don't know why I do or if it's the most recommended choice.  I have other thoughts going on during spells and noncards here and there but didn't want to put out an excess of words.  PCB will likely end up jumbled like this one because I'm going to draw a blank on some parts or be unable to explain paths without making it uncomfortably lengthy, but I want to give it a shot.

I need a shot type from you.

Okay, it appears that the last two spirits before Utsuho have a static pattern but it's based on your position as they start.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 04:22:56 PM by Heartbeam »

Re: ITT: SA Normal Bawwing
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2009, 06:01:01 PM »
Fixed up a few words, finished typing for the last few screenshots.  Not even the bolded words help in picking out the stages in that one post.  When you're ready I'd like to know what shot type you want to 1CC PCB with (please pick Reimu B, please pick Reimu B).

I have an idea here and there for the next set of explanations and will try to make the pictures easier to access.  I had a vague plan on what I wanted to accomplish for the post on SA, I didn't want to post a replay and say 'follow this' but also explain why it works and how it controls the shots around it.  In the end I realize there are certain things I don't know why I do or if it's the most recommended choice.  I have other thoughts going on during spells and noncards here and there but didn't want to put out an excess of words.  PCB will likely end up jumbled like this one because I'm going to draw a blank on some parts or be unable to explain paths without making it uncomfortably lengthy, but I want to give it a shot.

I need a shot type from you.

Okay, it appears that the last two spirits before Utsuho have a static pattern but it's based on your position as they start.

Wow, thats really kind of you man.

To be honest, I don't really know what shot type would be good for PCB, because I've played it about, what, 5 times at the most? I had a try on normal last night (Marisa B) and I got halfway through stage 5 before I game overed, surprisingly. I didn't even know there were 3 characters in it!  :o

I'll have a look through tonight, probably, try a run with all the characters and shot types. You  should really look at making your guide a new thread and getting it stickied, certainly deserves it   :D

EDIT: Guide certainly helps though, last night I actually made it up to Nuclear Fusion without continuing. The 1CC is so close now I can smell it ^_^

EDITEDIT: Although to be honest, I might end up coming back to SA normal.. I keep finding my alt f4 ragequit reflexes kick in if I have another stupid death on stage 3.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 06:22:00 PM by Anonymity »