When you are tempted by a game you're horrible at....?

[hydremajor117]

Thats the story of my life Touhou gaming career so to speak...

See I love the art style, the story and concept its based on though I'm completely ignorant of japanese or chinese folklore and most of it culture to be fair...

So yeah touhou games look SHINY and I really WANT to like them, but here's the thing, I'm really not good at them, in fact I'm barely passable as for as bullet hell players go...

And Recently in the Touhou franchise (the original one I mean) Hisoutensoku is tempting me a lot,
but the problem here is that, while I'm PASSABLE as a bullet hell player,
I am absolutely worthless when it comes to fighting games the likes of Street Fighter...

So I'm in a weird state of "Do want but do not want"

I've been told that the touhou fighting games where, from the perspective I heard it:

"Easy and unlike most fighter games around"

However I am UNBEARABLY bad at fighting games, the kinda bad that can't do multiple movement prompts followed by one or multiple buttons
(Heck I never managed to pull off a single hadoken on the SNES version of Street fighter)

So really...

What I wanna ask is:

Is my kind of incompetence in fighting games going to have an effect on me if I try to play Hisoutensoku ?

[Archin]

I love it when people say they are bad players. It doesn't matter if you are bad or not at a game. What you really need to focus on is having fun. I'm a terrible player and have been playing for 2 years (off and on). Though that won't stop me, I love playing Touhou/Bullet Hell games because they are fun and it challenges me to do alot of crazy stuff.

If I was in your shoes. I would play the game despite being bad at fighters and go in with the mindset of having fun. If you get rocked "who cares", go in screaming and chanting with every success and every fail and you will have a blast. That's why I continue to play the games and while I'm playing them, I continue to get better because I do take the time to learn. Jump in the fighting games and try with a good mindset,  don't worry about winning just play for your entertainment. Sooner or later you will be rocking NPCs and looking for players to play against.

[Cheez8]

It will have an effect on how skillfully you play the game. Whether it has an effect on how much you enjoy playing the game is up to you.

(I can sympathize, by the way. When I played Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, I didn't even realize there WERE those sort of movement prompts until well after I had already cleared a handful of story modes... which probably amounted to several months. I'm sure it frustrated me too, but that didn't stop me from having fun on another try sometime later.)

[Emerald Mint]

I have always enjoyed the look and feel of the games for my 3 years of play. The addictive nature of them, the colourful patterns and sublime characters and play is always something worth coming back to once in a while.

Like most other people, I was terrible at them when I started off. If I compare myself to now and 2/3 years back, my typical scores have increased, sometimes even to heights I never expect, and that's mostly through practice. Even now, I make plenty of mistakes or I find myself too aggressive in play, which does sometimes put me off.

Half the time I just watch the top replays out there. They're epic and inspiring and bring me back to playing more, even if I am around the casual level mostly.

[chirpy13]

You won't get better by not playing, that's for sure.

[Star King]

Everybody is bad when they start.

All those god tier players you see? They got that good through putting time into the game. Once upon a time, they sucked too.

If you avoid difficult things, you'll never improve at them. I, for one, enjoy a good challenge that I actually have to improve my skills in order to overcome. But maybe that's just me, considering modern gaming is moving away from that mentality.

[AngelG No. 55]

Ahhh...this post is like looking at myself in a mirror. I had much trouble with them because I too wanted to like them. However, I have some personal issues related to severe insecurity (that are not relevant to elaborate on at the moment) that only worsened my experience with the games because I would seek acceptance by others - and by that I mean other Touhou players, like your average HME goer. And every time I failed to accomplish something, I would berate myself for not fitting in, for being a failure, et. al. and ultimately I would put the games on a long hiatus.

But the bottom line is: you can still liike Touhou even if you're a casual gamer, or even a non-gamer. Touhou isn't only the games, after all (but this sub-forum is; for general Touhou talk try the Touhou Addict Recovery Center). Enjoy the music, read the written materials, read some doujins, see if you still enjoy it.

I love it when people say they are bad players. It doesn't matter if you are bad or not at a game. What you really need to focus on is having fun. I'm a terrible player and have been playing for 2 years (off and on). Though that won't stop me, I love playing Touhou/Bullet Hell games because they are fun and it challenges me to do alot of crazy stuff.

If I was in your shoes. I would play the game despite being bad at fighters and go in with the mindset of having fun. If you get rocked "who cares", go in screaming and chanting with every success and every fail and you will have a blast. That's why I continue to play the games and while I'm playing them, I continue to get better because I do take the time to learn. Jump in the fighting games and try with a good mindset,  don't worry about winning just play for your entertainment. Sooner or later you will be rocking NPCs and looking for players to play against.

If you do decide do continue playing the games, keep this post very close to your heart.
Unrelated question to Archin: you say you're a terrible player...how terrible exactly? Do you mind specifying?

[Sahgren]

It'd be good for you to keep reminding yourself that the people you're mostly likely to see in the popular streams and videos are the ones how have been playing considerably longer than you. They've been at it for so long that they've seen every possibility a dozen times by now, and there's very little that they haven't figured out how to react to.

What rarely gets shown are the people like you, the vast majority of players who aren't good enough to grab the spotlight. Don't worry if you start out bad at a game and/or never manage to be at the top of the rankings. There isn't a problem as long as you've gotten what you wanted out of it.

[Zengeku]

I dunno mate, it's up to you to decide where you want to go.

You could become a primary, this is something you do by actually playing the game. Sure you may suck at it but don't worry about that, you'll improve with playing. To tell my own personal tale, when i started out with these games, it took me 6 months before I could beat extra stages. Granted, i was going at it very hardcore (not that I am now) but i was just playing for as long as it felt fun. At one point, i even had trouble dealing with Reisen, a joke of a boss fight even on Lunatic mode, though this was on Normal. I was deadset on quitting these games because evidently, they weren't for me. I was just not meant to play Lunatic mode. Nowadays though I'm considerably better than that, able to clear half the games (windows) on Lunatic without bombs and i've even branched out and been able to enjoy other shmups.

These things are fucking fun and I would never forgive you if you didn't give them a chance. Sure you may suck big time at them now and sure you may keep doing so for a few years but these are games where it's possible to have tons of fun even though you suck. Of course, shmups are not for everyone but do make sure to do a proper attempt at finding out if they are for you!

You could also become a secondary who's all into fandom nonsense spouting dumb memes all day while watching unfunny fanvideos or coming up with retarded theories about what the next game might feature western inspired monsters or not but that's not something i would recommend. I've been a secondary fag at one point before and I hate that part of my past. Christ, it was insufferably dumb. So if you choose to be engaged in that, you have been warned.

[chum]

The Best In The West has spoken.

[Sakurei]

But the bottom line is: you can still liike Touhou even if you're a casual gamer, or even a non-gamer. Touhou isn't only the games, after all (but this sub-forum is; for general Touhou talk try the Touhou Addict Recovery Center). Enjoy the music, read the written materials, read some doujins, see if you still enjoy it.

Get out.

no seriously, get out. you've just told a newcomer that it's okay to be a secondary. it's not okay. secondaries are the reason why the touhou fandom is hated by everyone. don't become a secondary.

okay, I guess my take on this is either play the games or don't. nobody really cares if you'll quit now. but if you play, you can always ask us about things you don't understand. I have not yet seen someone being rejected with honest questions about anything regarding the games. there are very experienced players frequenting HME and none of them will laugh at you for being bad.

as several people here have already stated, nobody started out being good. they all have been playing for years.  lazy as fuck Zengeku? since summer 2008 ffs. jack of all trades Chum? since late 2010. EoSD superplayer Cactu? early 2011 also. PoDD champion Zil? 2011 also. there are other good players that have been playing as long as that or longer

you see it? yeah, they all play for at least 2 and a half years by now - actively. they haven't taken random month-long breaks. ok, zengeku probably did, but you hopefully catch my drift. it's a year long time-investment if you want to become good. you just don't fire up the game three times and do some sick shit. Patience may be one of the more important qualities a Touhou (shmups in general) player needs. don't whine because it's hard when you first play. whine when you know it's not hard and still fail w

[Sapz]

Don't worry about the elitists. If you want to play just for fun, that's totally okay - just don't expect any record-breaking results. You will of course get good if you stick with it as everyone's been saying, though - just a matter of time spent (in useful ways) for the most part.

I'd also recommend dropping the rather unpleasant attitude you guys are taking towards people who enjoy the games but don't really care about setting records. There's nothing wrong with that. The whole 'primary'/'secondary' crap is pretty laughable, I'm honestly astonished that people use these terms seriously whatsoever.

[Zengeku]

I think you might've misunderstood somethings, but sure. No need to get in a fight over this.

[Tengukami]

The whole 'primary'/'secondary' crap is pretty laughable, I'm honestly astonished that people use these terms seriously whatsoever.

Seconded. The sneering self-importance of people who believe there's only One True Way to enjoy Touhou never ceases to amaze me.

Practice makes you better, but being awesome isn't a requirement for having fun with the games, or any media related to Touhou.

[Sakurei]

what I think is laughable is calling yourself a touhoufan and not even playing the games.

I like fandom-shit. I like the music, doujinshi, images, fangames, but I also enjoy the actual source.

if you don't play the games, then it's like liking an anime because you think the characters are cute without actually having watched the anime. that, my friends, is laughable.

[Tengukami]

what I think is laughable is calling yourself a touhoufan and not even playing the games.

Which would make sense if the only Touhou thing ZUN made was games. But it isn't, so it doesn't.

[Sapz]

If someone wants to enjoy something that way, more power to them. It's not for me, or you, or anyone else, to tell others how they 'should' be having fun here. Giving advice is awesome but jumping down someone else's throat for having a different philosophy about games is not welcome here.

[Zengeku]

EDIT: You know nevermind, i'm just shitposting at this rate. just delete this.

[Star King]

Coming from someone who has little interest in the fandom

the anti-"secondary" circlejerk in certain parts of the western Touhou community is pretty laughable

[chum]

It's funny because OP's original question had nothing to do with  :]secondary :] works at all.

All I ask from fans that care more about Touhou as a phenomenon than as a game series is that they don't pretend to know more than they do, or be more than they are. As for OP and people in similar situation, either:
1. Overcome your poor skill, and seek improvement
or
2. Don't care about your poor skill and enjoy the games anyway (lots of people find this possible, why shouldn't you?)

If these two prove to be impossible for whatever reason, at least you tried.

I also think that the distinction between Touhou as something largely fan created (ie: what most people unfortunately learn about it) and the real Touhou is not something that should be ignored. blurring the lines is okay, because Touhou is vast and confusing, but the distinction is still there and if someone is crazy about the former but doesn't give a shit about the latter, I personally find them tasteless.

Coming from someone who has little interest in the fandom

the anti-"secondary" circlejerk in certain parts of the western Touhou community is pretty laughable

Yeah. Fortunately, it appears to be used ironically most of the time.

[Zerviscos]

What I wanna ask is:

Is my kind of incompetence in fighting games going to have an effect on me if I try to play Hisoutensoku ?

As long as you're having fun, then no.

Out of all genre of video gaming, I am; from bad to worst respectively; First Person Shooter, Fighting Games, and then Sports.

But even though I'm bad at them, I never had any disregard in playing them. In fact, I improve when I do play them, and makes me a lot more confident.
If you're thinking that you're just plain bad, then just play. You'll improve while having fun.

If you're not having fun, then atleast you tried it. Then just throw it away, and play something else.
Just remember, not all people have the same taste; even you.

Get out.

no seriously, get out. you've just told a newcomer that it's okay to be a secondary. it's not okay. secondaries are the reason why the touhou fandom is hated by everyone. don't become a secondar

Not really, no. That's a rather bitter way of thinking that. What most part that's annoying is that people who think themselves are fans are toying away people who are believed to be "secondary". We're all fans here, even if it doesn't involve the games, you can't just segregate them into two groups. We don't respect that here.

what I think is laughable is calling yourself a touhoufan and not even playing the games.

Isn't that a bit harsh to people that read the official print works, listened to the music, but never played the games?

[Byronyello]

Regardless of the OP, I just learned that there are some real asses. I thought it was only minor elitism round these parts, I must have been greatly mistaken. (That comment was passive-aggressive on purpose, by the way.) To tell you the truth, while it may be edging on the side of 'disgusting', we can't really lose sight that this very forum instigated the dichotomy of touhou-game-fans and touhou-fandom-fans. I've always been confused by that - surely there's a spectrum, not a mere split - I myself am proof of that, even though I don't do a whole lot in TARC.

OT: Similar to most here, I think that it doesn't really matter about being bad when you start playing the games. In fact, and in some ways, I'd consider the experience to be heightened by this fact. You see, it's quite the feeling when you're, say, in the middle of 'The Bow of Genzanmi Yorimasa', and you think to yourself 'I remember when I could barely unlock this extra stage...'. It's a lovely experience.

[Tengukami]

Regardless of the OP, I just learned that there are some real asses. I thought it was only minor elitism round these parts, I must have been greatly mistaken. (That comment was passive-aggressive on purpose, by the way.) To tell you the truth, while it may be edging on the side of 'disgusting', we can't really lose sight that this very forum instigated the dichotomy of touhou-game-fans and touhou-fandom-fans.

No, it's just Sakurei being his usual elitist self. You'll find that even our score-runners are really helpful and encouraging, and that this community is by and large very welcoming. There's no reason to make this thread the Sakurei Show, as I think his points have been adequately refuted, and we can go back to discussing the topic on hand.

[chum]

We're all fans here, even if it doesn't involve the games, you can't just segregate them into two groups.

Why not? I would love to hear more about this, to me it seems some of you are just outright dismissing basic human nature, why can't we divide people into groups? It's a big part of life, you do it all the time subconsciously. There's very different kinds of fans of Touhou and dividing those into groups is simply natural. I have just about nothing in common with most fans, why should I place myself in the same group as them? People should really quit the knee jerk reactions towards these kinds of subjects.

Think about it. This is the Touhou Gameplay part of the forum. It's obvious that some people here will have a grudge against the vast non-player part of the fandom. I am personally not one of those people, but It's really not that strange, is it? What Sakurei said isn't exactly untrue. Touhou doesn't have a great reputation and that is not thanks to its players.

[Zengeku]

Touhou doesn't have a great reputation and that is not thanks to its players.

Seconded.

No, it's just Sakurei being his usual elitist self.

The usual Sakurei is actually a fluffy cute boy with a bleeding heart who just very occasionally gets rustled a bit at the prospect of someone turning into the sort of people sullying the reputation of hard working superplayers.

[Cheez8]

Why not? I would love to hear more about this, to me it seems some of you are just outright dismissing basic human nature, why can't we divide people into groups? It's a big part of life, you do it all the time subconsciously.

Because dividing people into groups lets you make assumptions about the people in those groups more easily. Grouping people together makes it easier for someone not to feel bad about making negative assumptions about people, whether or not they're true.

I agree that there is a section of the fandom that likes to make dumb jokes and generally makes the fandom and the series seem less appealing, and that the people who don't play the games tend to fall into this group. I don't believe people are usually like that because they don't play the games, nor do I believe that playing the games will prevent people from making those dumb jokes. I don't know whether I should direct this at anyone in particular, but putting faith in sweeping statements is a very bad thing.

[chum]

Thanks for the rational response, and I understand where you are coming from. My philosophy is to never have 100% faith in my own judgements, but one most also never forget that the judgements (assumptions) are there. Pretending that they don't exist might make you look better in a forum setting, but I highly doubt that these people don't have any biases of their own. But It's also not necessarily about judgements. Some people are probably less likely to make any kinds of judgements. They can still group people together because they feel that there is a group that they belong to and a group that they don't. Grouping people together is an easy thing to fall back on. The people that feel all-inclusive are probably less likely to do it, but for someone like me who doesn't really talk to the non-player portion of the fandom, It's a very easy thing to do and there's no way it couldn't have happened.

Furthermore, bad players should never be rejected based on their badness alone. Seeing other people improve is one of my favorite things about this fandom. Although Sakurei was called an elitist, I think he feels the same way. I also don't think there's anything inherently wrong fans that don't play the games. Some of them do other constructive things like recording music or making art. Most of them probably just think the girls are cute and the world is interesting - that's fine too. I just don't really have much to talk to them about, when it comes to Touhou, and I don't feel that we belong in the same group.

[Tengukami]

Touhou doesn't have a great reputation and that is not thanks to its players.

[citation needed]

There's a whole lot of confirmation bias going on in this thread. People roll their eyes at the Touhou fandom for many, many reasons. As Sapz already said, everyone is allowed to enjoy Touhou the way they want to. What isn't OK is sneering at people who enjoy it differently than you or I might do.

Also, I really don't think it needs to be said that straight-up name calling is definitely not OK, and - again! - it'd be really, really great if we could not make this thread about one dude who literally told another user to get out of this forum for the terrible crime of saying you could enjoy stuff about Touhou other than the games.

[Sakurei]

Furthermore, bad players should never be rejected based on their badness alone. Seeing other people improve is one of my favorite things about this fandom. Although Sakurei was called an elitist, I think he feels the same way.

yes. if someone wants to improve, I am willing to help them as best as I can. I want the players to get better and do some cool survival stuff or start scoring. I believe to have given useful tips to other players many times - I have gotten thanks for my tips occasionally. calling me an elitist isn't really all there is to it.

Also, I really don't think it needs to be said that straight-up name calling is definitely not OK, and - again! - it'd be really, really great if we could not make this thread about one dude who literally told another user to get out of this forum for the terrible crime of saying you could enjoy stuff about Touhou other than the games.

I didn't really want to bring up this again, but since tengukami seems to be riding on that one point the whole time: the get out part was a joke. sarcasm over the internet doesn't work, I have been reminded. I already said I like fandom stuff as much ever the next guy. the only thing I really can't stand are people that call themselves touhoufans and all the do is spout some IOSYS memes. that's all. My (actual) take on non-players is: fine, but don't pretend to know more than you do. it's very similar to chum's, really. I would like you to not make biased judgment due to one post. thanks

personally, I didn't really mind eldestructoe's post (or nindel's). I laughed. But I guess it is still against the forum rules.

I also didn't really want to instigate such a huge argument with my post, even though I think it's an interesting topic and could very well be discussed, though this is not the thread for it. maybe it's something for fitting for TARC

[nintendonut888]

To ignore the (at this point predictable and silly) discussion in this thread and answer the OP directly, how you do in Hisoutensoku will come down to your personal skill and not necessarily skill in fighting games. Fighting games are something I am very bad at, but I managed to 1cc Hisoutensoku (and all the other fighting games for that matter) on lunatic by nothing else than treating it like a video game and not as a fighting game. In the end, you'll have the same kinds of difficulties in Hisoutensoku as you do in the shmups - they are difficult, they may not be something you're good at, and so on. But disregard all that, and simply play as you want to. Maybe you're not of the mind that you need to get suuuper good like I felt, and frankly, you don't need to BE suuuuper good to beat the fighting games. Basically, just play as you wish, and don't worry too much about how good you are - if you just want to play it because it looks shiny, then surely your wish to play the shiny will trump "oh I'm not very good at this game."