Author Topic: What would make a Touhou game even harder?  (Read 10626 times)

What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« on: June 14, 2013, 11:58:37 AM »
I've been pondering the difficulty of Touhou for a while now, and I just started wondering, "If someone were to make an absolutely rage-inducing Touhou fangame, what would be in it?" Thus, I came to you for answers. Just name anything that could be added into a Touhou game (that would make sense) that would increase the difficulty.
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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 12:21:46 PM »
It's fairly popular to use the ultra patches and/or increase the fps of the games to provide additional challenge.
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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 03:08:14 PM »
if you had to actually put effort into getting all your extends. Score extends and the item extends like in PCB and IN, I mean. in those games, you can do nothing and still get all score extends (PoFV being the only exceptions). in IN, you can get all the extends without particularly difficult play (for example you don't need to PoC the big fairies in stage 4, expecially if you go for kaguya) and in PCB, it's kinda iffy. most people don't get 1400 items, and even 1200 seems to elude some. but the 1000 extend is still easily attainable and that's the 7th point item extend (plus the two extend in stage 3 and 5).

imagine if ZUN doubled or tripled the score requirements for EoSD or MoF extends. 450m for the last extend in MoF? suddenly people wouldn't get it as easily. as it stands, I have never seen a serious run that cleared and didn't get all of them.

nintendonut888

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 03:39:16 PM »
More bullets.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Mino ☆

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2013, 04:26:54 PM »
A bunch of random impossible bullet patterns that are impossible to memorize. They're very dense and very fast and you have barely any time to read them or react.

The Noodles Guy

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 04:34:28 PM »
Orin everywhere  :getdown:

Or just bulletspam like another STGs do.
Easy Modo? That's for kids, and for me.

Tengukami

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2013, 05:20:51 PM »
OM, Do Not Steal:

1. No fewer than five bosses at a time.

2. Fairies burst a dense wave of bullets in a random direction when they die.

3. Bombing against a boss results in an extra spell card.

4. Every 10 seconds of focus during stages = 10% increase in fairies.

5. Every 1,000 graze points = +10FPS.

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2013, 07:40:31 PM »
Looking for rage-inducing? Remove lives and bombs entirely. And add cheap deaths everywhere. Death by text, death by 1up item, death by timing out patterns with unreasonably short timers...

It doesn't seem fun at all, but you asked for rage-inducing.

Kosachi

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2013, 07:55:42 PM »
By randomly removing the ability to go in a certain direction. I want to see anyone 1cc a game without being able to go left!
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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2013, 07:59:52 PM »
By randomly removing the ability to go in a certain direction. I want to see anyone 1cc a game without being able to go left!

I'd love to see someone pull this off using ReimuA in SA.
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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2013, 08:11:28 PM »
By randomly removing the ability to go in a certain direction. I want to see anyone 1cc a game without being able to go left!

Naut got pretty far playing UFO Lunatic, left screen only. I think it was a pacifist run, too  (if I remember correctly, anyway).

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."


Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2013, 09:12:27 PM »
Making every bullet in any game have the same hitbox as Patchouli's Earth spellcards'. 

ふねん1

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 09:42:09 PM »
"Rage-inducing" says to me "bad design", and I don't think that would match the OP's description of things "that would make sense". Among those that would make the games harder and make sense, more intensive stages come to mind (though the DDC demo already took a step in that direction), with faster/denser patterns and fairies willing to be more aggressive in providing them. Trick-based attacks really depend on how well they can remain difficult after you've learned said trick, and we've seen plenty that become ridiculously easy after some practice.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 09:43:48 PM by ふねん1 »
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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2013, 10:15:40 PM »
EoSD Good End only with 400M
PCB Good End only with 2B
IN Good End only with 5B
MoF Good End only with 1.7B
SA Good End only with 3B
UFO Good End only with 2.1B
TD Good End only with 2.5B
Make the people who think 60 hours and glorious NB run is being good suffer.

Remove stage practice.
Remove spell practice.
Add loops with ridiculous requests.
Add TLB's with humanly impossible patterns.
Enforce grazing/item collection in order to stay alive. (not gaining graze/collecting items for a while and you die)

nintendonut888

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2013, 10:42:33 PM »
Fairy Wars would have been much better without that freeze mechanic. Why don't we release a patch disabling it? It'd make things much harder and therefore better.

Spoiler:
I hope the OP gets the point of this thread, which is to say "harder does not mean better." Anyone can make a shmup harder than Cave, but it's a challenge to make a good one.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

vctrz

Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2013, 11:57:13 PM »
Make the bullets invisible or something. It'll be harder and even shittier.

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2013, 12:08:58 AM »
My youtube channel with my creations: https://www.youtube.com/user/KazeSenshi2929
( ゆっくりしていってね)>

Drake

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2013, 03:42:03 AM »
Make the bullets invisible or something. It'll be harder and even shittier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRbjelU4ILs

8D

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2013, 08:48:15 AM »
Looking for rage-inducing? Remove lives and bombs entirely. And add cheap deaths everywhere. Death by text, death by 1up item, death by timing out patterns with unreasonably short timers...

It doesn't seem fun at all, but you asked for rage-inducing.

That isn't actually available anywhere, is it?
>.>

Karisa

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2013, 12:06:52 PM »
I don't think so. It seems to be made by the same person as the "AfterExtra" videos (judging by the effect used in the final spell of all three, and the 10-point spell bonuses), and as far as I know those weren't released either.

Drake

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2013, 09:50:50 PM »
yuke's works aren't publicly available, no

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Tengukami

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2013, 10:01:50 PM »
Spoiler:
I hope the OP gets the point of this thread, which is to say "harder does not mean better." Anyone can make a shmup harder than Cave, but it's a challenge to make a good one.

Hey man, that's why I offered some workable features that would make the games harder, but in an entertaining way.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2013, 10:05:18 PM »
Less memorable patterns and more random chaotic bullet spam like in DDP Daioujou stages.

Drake

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2013, 05:05:29 AM »
are you implying DOJ doesn't have memorable patterns

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Yatakarasu

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2013, 03:47:14 PM »
Go SoEW on our asses and no focus ever again.

Normal Clears: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC
Hard Clears: PoFV, SA, TD, DDC
Extra Clears: PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC
Current touhou goal: Improve! ...1cc more Hard Modes

Massaca

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Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 02:37:53 AM »
@Karisa & Drake,
Thanks. Too bad about that even if it was expected.


As for the topic at hand, flashy, distracting and bullet blending backgrounds.
Or make using a bomb take a life *shrug*

Oh

Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 02:55:12 AM »
Add more lolis. Oh, we're talking about the game... hehe

Re: What would make a Touhou game even harder?
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2013, 08:50:10 PM »
Add more lolis. Oh, we're talking about the game... hehe

The suggestion is still sorta solid. More lolis will make it harder to focus on the game aspect of the game.