Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F  (Read 189686 times)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #720 on: June 05, 2017, 06:52:24 PM »
If you have an herbalist Boost themselves, I'm sure it means they only have one turn to use it. (Of course, no offensive character should be an herbalist anyway)

Did a quick check, this is exactly how it works. If an Herbalist uses Herb of Awakening on themselves, they only get one turn of the boost. But it lasts two turns if they use it on another character.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #721 on: June 06, 2017, 12:26:44 AM »
Yeah. Boost status lasts two turns, but if you use it on yourself, the turn spent applying it counts as one of the two.
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #722 on: June 06, 2017, 04:36:51 AM »
Honestly, that's something I completely forgot about. It kind of makes sense when you think about it, though; the first turn of Grand Incantation is spent applying the buff to yourself. If you have an herbalist Boost themselves, I'm sure it means they only have one turn to use it. (Of course, no offensive character should be an herbalist anyway)

Grand Incantation does still beat it, though. You get 240% damage from two turns (or 240% heal) wheras Herb of Excitement takes 3 turns (the buffer's turn, and two of the attacker's turns) for 272% damage. 240% for two turns, or 276% for three. The fact that people with Grand Incantation honestly -need- the boost to help deal good damage (plus the hassle of needing 2 turns for it as well) whilst Herbalist will hit anyone is a thing, though.

Wait, but if that's the case, wouldn't this be better for people who can attack at least twice in a row?

...Youmu is sad panda... :(
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #723 on: June 07, 2017, 05:57:17 PM »
Well, the boost doesn't go away if you switch them out, so that's not necessarily a problem.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #724 on: June 08, 2017, 11:25:58 AM »
 Youmu kinda needs to concentrate before every attack though, since without Swordmaster's Spirit her damage is kinda crappy :V.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #725 on: June 08, 2017, 02:35:05 PM »
Youmu has to have full HP to get the damage boost (regeneration ability helps, but yeah), and it's only +50%; it's good for saving up on panic phases ESPECIALLY because it STACKS with "Boost" effects (204% damage w.max herb of awakening if they stack multiplicatively instead of additively), but concentrating between every attack will just effectively REDUCE her damage by 25%. I guess on the flipside though, she does have Meikyo Shisui to additionally help encourage the playstyle. It might work out with Monk to further stack passive buffs and healing, and it's delay reduction can rival guardian since it also procs on the attacks (Less reduction, but paired with better other passives).

...uh, I got carried away there, but tl;dr, Youmu will still do more damage attacking twice in a row than fitting in a concentrate. Her max MP starts low but increases comparatively fast, she can afford to do it occasionally- at the least when the second, non-concentrated move is Present Life Slash.

Of course, her playstyle probably notably changes after you Awaken her, which is where she actually manages to look like a not-totally-dubious choice.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #726 on: June 08, 2017, 05:37:33 PM »
 Oh I mostly use her as a glass-cannon-that-can-occasionally-take-a-weak-hit: switch her in to concentrate and attack and then immediately switch her out. With the Guardian's Efficient Concentration and a few SPD buffs she can bail out before getting hit most of the time so the full HP requirement is kinda moot (Regeneration gives her back exactly that 20% by the time she attacks again, not counting backrow regen).

If I were to attack twice I would either need to wait on the delay of whichever attack I used or do two additional switches (switch her out and in again), it also increases her up time in battle as long as I'm using Slash of Eternity since you can recover to full MP with one single concentrate even without equipping MP regen Equipment. Also helps keeping buffs with Meikyo Shisui proccing every 2 turns.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #727 on: June 08, 2017, 09:06:46 PM »
For some strange reasons it seems like Komachi have an high void resistance. Any other char have this ?

Tried some all-resist equipments from the characters I use but none achieved blue damage from space compression.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 09:08:38 PM by Leerius »

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #728 on: June 08, 2017, 10:24:28 PM »
Yes, it's documented somewhere earlier in the thread. Some characters have resistance/weakness to VOI elemental damage. Some enemies do as well but it's very rare. Maribel is extremely VOI resistant, iirc. I think only a few were weak to it, though... Kaguya?
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #729 on: June 08, 2017, 10:46:36 PM »
The JP wiki has some (all? it doesn't say anything about untested characters) cases documented, but most everything is speculated about because it's difficult to acquire an exact read on something you can't actually see. Here's what it has (page is https://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/177.html)

Red numbers, confirmed weakness

Kaguya: +20-30% (would be equivalent to 76-83 resistance)

Red numbers, but appear to be resistant?

Nazrin, Eirin, Eiki: -33% (equivalent to 150 resistance)

Blue numbers, confirmed resistance

Komachi: -40% (equivalent to 166 resistance)
Parsee, Flandre, Koishi, Akyuu: -50% (equivalent to 200 resistance)
Maribel: -75% (equivalent to 400 resistance)

There's also speculation but no confirmation that Eiki's Cleansed Crystal Mirror skill may be able to reduce VOI damage. The numbers may not be exact, but they seem to be accurately determined estimates, even if they aren't 100% on the dot.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #730 on: June 11, 2017, 10:00:47 AM »
So I'm finally making my way through the second game, nearly at 7F and got my first stone of awakening. Not really sure how to build for subclasses yet, don't really have a clear direction for any character. Would appreciate some ideas on decent subclassing strats and builds for people to start implementing so early on. I stuck a Monk on Komachi to aid regen to see what it'd be like, but I still need to buy the extra regen skill. However I think I'm regretting doing that first, as I'm still using Rinno for his drop passives and probably should've classed him as something that can actually attack. For now he's just relatively dead weight except that he can tank a few hits because I boosted his HP a lot. Next stone I'll do something with him.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #731 on: June 11, 2017, 02:47:28 PM »
A quick tip for you about that. You can reset your skill points and get the stone of awakening back at the library. You don't need to use a Tome of Reincarnation to do so.

As for suggestions about character builds, here's a place on the wiki to help with that. https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Characters/Character-Building_Suggestions It's a work in progress, but it does have stuff on Rinno and Komachi.
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #732 on: June 11, 2017, 05:21:38 PM »
A quick tip for you about that. You can reset your skill points and get the stone of awakening back at the library. You don't need to use a Tome of Reincarnation to do so.

Wait... You can?

How?

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #733 on: June 11, 2017, 07:23:19 PM »
When you do the reset, it will first ask if you really want to reset the character. After you say yes to that, it will ask if you want to use a tome of reincarnation. Say no, and you will not use one up. The skill points will be reset and the stone of awakening will be refunded. The tome of reincarnation is only for if you want to pull out all of the Library investment that you have put into a character, or if there's a stat tome or gem that you want back from a character that you've used them on.

And given that this seems to be a common question, I think that someone needs to write this into the wiki. Unless anyone else is willing to do so before me, I'll write it into the character building section.

Edit: Also, there's this: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Gameplay
Since the question is coming up though, I think that I should write about this in the Character building section.

2nd Edit: Done. It's written into the section.

3rd Edit: I want to ask something about Youmu regarding the subclasses, since I am currently editing the wiki to give some recommendations on what subclasses would be best for her. I am currently considering the following...

Recommended Build: Tank
Primary Stat focus: HP, DEF, Elemental affinities.
Guardian: Stat boosts and damage reduction, and Efficient Concentration and Shield Defense to synergize with Meikyo Shisui somewhat(provided that Youmu has built up enough of a SPD buff beforehand to be able to cancel out the SPD debuff, and then focus to regain Meikyo Shisui).
Monk: Body Revitalization has synergy with both her Regeneration and Meikyo Shisui skills and Dexterity Training can reduce the time taken by most of her actions(attack command can be used to quickly gain another turn without using MP).
Healer: Heals the entire frontline passively, reduces her FIR weakness to almost neutral, and the healing spell is useful for when her regen isn't enough(The buffs from Meikyo Shisui will strengthen the spell a good bit).
Strategist:  Reduces the decay of the frontline's buffs(including Meikyo Shisui), applies other effects, including a damage reduction effect, to the front line without burning any MP.
Transcendant: Boosts her stats(all boosts other than MAG are useful here) and reduces damage taken via Enhanced Combat.

What do you guys think about it?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 09:13:24 PM by Kirin no Sora »
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #734 on: June 12, 2017, 01:41:40 AM »
I kind of doubt that Youmu is a good tank once you recruit a decent amount of the cast, to be honest. Meikyo Shisui and Regeneration are her good traits for tanking, but there's better regen tanks (Mokou, Komachi) and Meikyo Shisui doesn't work if you start using skills, which... you probably want to be doing. Plus her MND is so low she'd generally need an HP build, rendering Meikyo Shisui less important and Mokou/Komachi further outclassing her. Her stats are nothing special and she doesn't innately have any skills relevant for a tank.

She's a good tank early in the game, especially against Komachi, and might -work- long-term, but... definitely pales in comparison to the other options. Maybe if you were fighting a Ghost boss. There's apparently a lot of those postgame.

Her main strengths are as an attacker that can save up strong moves by combining Swordmaster's Spirit and Boost to nuke in decisive moments (all the bosses with desperation phases) and the high potential of her post-awakening skills.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 01:45:30 AM by Serela »
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #735 on: June 12, 2017, 02:38:58 AM »
Does Mokou make a worthwhile bulky attacker going into lategame or should I not bother building her too hard only to drop her later? I don't think I really need any more tanks right now, already building Momiji (who I may end up turning into a bulky attacker later knowing she doesn't get any better than earlygame but doesn't get particularly worse), Komachi, Wriggle, Rinno and Keine for general tanks.

This game feels weird in that it doesn't feel like there's anywhere near as many dedicated attackers nor strong attackers as there was last game. Idk this build flexibility is both very nice and very overwhelming.

Also I picked up Kasen and I'm really not sure which direction to go with her but I know I do want her on my team right now since her stats are OP. Suggestions appreciated since I don't want to end up with an unspecialised build and have her go meh as a result.

I dumped rinno temporarily while exploring floors and subbed in some damage dealers and trash clearers instead. Removed the stone from Komachi (thanks for the tip!!). Stuck the stone on Keine and turned her into an Enhancer for boss battles (can't wait for more ATK/MAG buffers).

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #736 on: June 12, 2017, 03:46:21 AM »
 As a bulky attacker Mokou's main weakness is her lack of a decent single target nuke (Flying Phoenix's only remarkable trait is that it is cheap, Tsuki no Iwasaka's Curse is as average as a spell gets and Fujiyama Volcano is very "Meh" for it's cost and delay), she can use the Warrior's Explosive Flame Sword since she has Blazing but EFS has pretty bad accuracy so it's a bit unreliable unlesss you give her ACC boosting equipment or boosts; she also doesn't have a lot of elements to choose from. Her strengths are obviously her Resurrection, Fighting Spirit and Regeneration skills which make her very durable and safe when coupled with her high HP, her average defenses can also be fixed thanks to With Keine; she also has high natural MP regen.

 Mokou becomes a much better attacker after awakening, where she gets Imperishable Shooting to boost her ATK significantly as she resurrects, Desperation boosts all of her stats  and is great on someone like Mokou because you don't have to worry about her getting killed while she's low, Continued Spirit helps her keep the Fighting Spirit stacks easier and Sheer Force helps against resistant enemies.

 TL;DR: During the main game she's great at the bulky part but only so-so at the attacker part, she gets better once she awakens in postgame.

 Kasen is usually built as a bulky attacker, she's both durable and can also deal great damage with Higekiri's Cursed Arm, can buff herself, has some pretty useful skills and also has several elements to choose from which also inflict a variety of status effects and debuffs; her only weakness is that her somewhat high MP consumption coupled with a pretty average MP regen means that she runs out of MP rather fast, particularly if you spam her buff.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #737 on: June 12, 2017, 09:50:43 AM »
3rd Edit: I want to ask something about Youmu regarding the subclasses, since I am currently editing the wiki to give some recommendations on what subclasses would be best for her. I am currently considering the following...

Recommended Build: Tank
Primary Stat focus: HP, DEF, Elemental affinities.
Guardian: Stat boosts and damage reduction, and Efficient Concentration and Shield Defense to synergize with Meikyo Shisui somewhat(provided that Youmu has built up enough of a SPD buff beforehand to be able to cancel out the SPD debuff, and then focus to regain Meikyo Shisui).
Monk: Body Revitalization has synergy with both her Regeneration and Meikyo Shisui skills and Dexterity Training can reduce the time taken by most of her actions(attack command can be used to quickly gain another turn without using MP).
Healer: Heals the entire frontline passively, reduces her FIR weakness to almost neutral, and the healing spell is useful for when her regen isn't enough(The buffs from Meikyo Shisui will strengthen the spell a good bit).
Strategist:  Reduces the decay of the frontline's buffs(including Meikyo Shisui), applies other effects, including a damage reduction effect, to the front line without burning any MP.
Transcendant: Boosts her stats(all boosts other than MAG are useful here) and reduces damage taken via Enhanced Combat.

What do you guys think about it?

Think I might have a good enough grasp on how the game works to be able to give input on this kind of thing (though I haven't personally used Youmu so I might be really off the mark, just speaking generally here). More or less, for a tank, the most useful things they can be doing (besides not dying) is switching and supporting, since they need to invest most/all of their stats in HP, DEF, and/or MND so that they can reduce damage as much as possible. With that in mind, I feel that Herbalist and Strategist would be the best subclasses for Youmu (at least in the main game, can't speak for plus disc yet), Strategist moreso since Herbalist requires Youmu to spend MP, which means losing out on Meikyo Shisui. The 10% damage bonus/reduction to the whole party is one of the strongest subclass effects in the game and gives an effective reason for using Youmu as a dedicated tank/switcher. Guardian and Transcendant are actually fairly redundant, as tanks generally have good enough defensive stats to be able to withstand attacks to a reasonable extent (~20-30% from the strongest attacks I'd estimate? might be overestimating), so it's usually better to go for something else unless you really do need the extra DEF/MND to survive. Similarly, the Monk subclass does not really help outside the small 4% HP regen/stat bonus per turn, since tank Youmu would ideally just switch characters (and Dexterity Training generally saves 1-2 ticks on anything that isn't too big a delay to not switch out), and the buff is outweighed by the complete lack of stat bonuses toward HP/DEF/MND. And Healer's healing would be much better done by a party-wide Enhancer or a character that has heavy/max investment in ATK or MAG. The extra resistances certainly are helpful, but equipment generally does that better.

So basically, that leaves just Herbalist and Strategist as having strong reasons and relatively lacking in flaws to pick them for Youmu. Well, mostly Strategist. The basic idea I've found for Strategist selection is to figure out which character is accomplishing the least at any given moment in the frontline, which is normally the tank. Youmu particularly benefits as a tank from being a Strategist compared to other characters because Meikyo Shisui encourages her not to expend any MP. A Strategist is just fine being a dedicated switcher. Though, I'm also working with the assumption of an Instant Attack character being present in the party (and honestly, after playing with one, I just can't imagine not having an Instant Attack character, it's an insanely good skill for decreasing the party's downtime), which greatly increases the value of having a character ready to switch frequently. Youmu seems like a fairly self-sufficient defensive character, with Desperation, Regeneration, and Meikyo Shisui being the key skills (isn't Desperation actually a great skill? seems to go under the radar a bit), plus Those who Live in the Underworld giving an incentive to specifically use her as the tank against Ghost bosses over other characters. Dunno about her MND though...since the characters I've been using as tanks (mainly Tenshi, Iku w/ Hisouten Guard, and Momiji to a lesser extent) have well balanced (and high) defense stats, I don't know how bad it being so low is for her. I could just manually calculate it (I do this for every boss for important/common attacks), but gotta check in-game and stuff for that.

I think Meikyo Shisui shows its value most effectively with Strategist Youmu, since it's the only job that can be done without expending any MP at all. Meikyo Shisui effectively becomes an extra strong Majesty in that context, and being able to buff her DEF/MND and her SPD helps in the switching role. Regeneration and Desperation probably provide enough of a buffer that Youmu can invest in SPD instead of defenses to some extent, depending on how much of an impact Desperation's buff has for reducing damage (useless for defense ignoring attacks, for example), so she can aim to more reliably switch characters after they attack. Meikyo Shisui itself accumulates quite quickly, netting a 45% buff after 5 turns and 66% after 10 turns (assuming Strategist), so it's pretty significant.

But I'm just basing off experience using other characters. Using Tenshi, I just have her use Enduring Celestial + Keystone Formation and never need to buff her defenses in order for her to tank as a Strategist (I've yet to find a practical use for State of Enlightenment tbh). Youmu has less DEF and a lot less MND, but she has Regeneration, Desperation, and a higher buff baseline, so I'm thinking the same principle should apply for her (at least for DEF).

EDIT: Ah yeah, by the way, I don't think it's a good idea to try to mention a bunch of different subclasses. Usually 1-3 are just plain better than anything else you could want, and in this particular context, I'm struggling to see a good reason to use anything other than Strategist if you want to have Youmu be a tank. Like, yeah, you could do something else if you wanted to, but if it's a question of effectiveness, comparatively speaking, I don't think you're really going to do better than Strategist in any context that exists in the game. This is just my opinion, but I think things like guides and recommendations should be narrowed and focused on what works best.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 09:57:35 AM by LonelyGaruga »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #738 on: June 15, 2017, 11:34:48 PM »
Huh, don't know if anyone's actually noticed this (It's quite expensive after all) but Library Levels for Affinity cap at 100.

I just found this out on my recent second run through Plus Disk.

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #739 on: June 16, 2017, 08:23:56 AM »
That's news to me. Guess that means that you can't compensate via the Library past a certain point.

Still, since HP for the library doesn't have a cap and can be leveled up like crazy if need be, it's not as big a deal as one would think. In fact, I would think that such a cap would be necessary for game balance, as in the first game, affinities were the most important stat past a certain point, so the dev doesn't want a repeat of that here.
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #740 on: June 16, 2017, 12:10:57 PM »
Additionally, it seems leveling up Affinities to 100 close to doubles the character's base affinity, at least in the case of a 50 Affinity (Kogasa's Spirit and Ran's Cold) and a 132 Affinity (Patchy's FIR/CLD/NTR/WND), where they both end up as 100/264.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #741 on: June 16, 2017, 11:02:14 PM »
Which means that a few characters won't be able to overcome their weakness even with a Affinity Tome(Cirno and Flandre are notable examples). Interesting.

I honestly would like to test if the cap is something that has always been there, or if it's a recent addition...
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #742 on: June 16, 2017, 11:07:59 PM »
It looks like leveling up a character's affinity increases it by 1% of its base. Did a quick check with Iku's FIR resistance (75), she maxes out at 150, and for every 4 levels, she gets 3 levels of +1 and 1 level of 0 (0.75, 1.5, 2.25, 3 = +0, +1, +1, +1, repeat). Similar story with her 125 CLD resistance, which caps at 250 and increases at a consistent +1, +1, +1, +2 rate. Probably safe to assume that it's a 1% increase for all characters.

Seems kinda weird to cap it though, as there's already a cap of 500 affinity (in terms of effect). With a cap like this in play, you have no choice but to devote a character's equipment slots to affinity-boosting gear even at end-game, if they're too weak to element(s) the boss uses. It does add relevance to the original affinity of the character, like the level up MP cap, but it feels somewhat limiting in comparison...

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #743 on: June 18, 2017, 01:31:57 AM »
The problem is that in late plus disk situations, powerleveling your affinities in LoT1 had a grossly huge effect. By the time you're fighting the final boss, even characters with rock bottom mind didn't have to worry about magic anymore; Yuugi could be a first slot tank in a full ATK build because suddenly she just laughed magic away despite her MND growth being "3", which is lower than Chen's was, for perspective.

In LoT2, there is no longer non-elemental attacks (apart from the rare void element) so it could be potentially even LARGER of an issue- you'd reduce magical AND physical damage to pathetic amounts. However, powerleveling affinities was heavily nerfed via %age increases (a character's strengths and weaknesses remain present, instead of quickly evening out and disappearing), and again by the hard cap, so this problem has been circumvented.

If it wasn't hard capped, then everyone would be stupidly resistant to all non-void attacks they weren't innately weak to by the time you finished the infinite corridor content. He could balance by just pumping enemy atk/mag higher and higher, but that just sounds annoying to have to account for, doesn't it?

Also, does affinity actually cap at 500? I mean, my Nitori has 524 wind affinity just by chance due to maintennance. Does it just secretly stop working after 500 or are you only talking about diminishing returns?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 01:34:00 AM by Serela »
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #744 on: June 18, 2017, 02:30:50 AM »
It secretly stops increasing damage reduction past 500, which is an 80% decrease in damage. I just kinda figured that enemy stats were already properly scaled with how affinity works, unlike the 1st game.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #745 on: June 20, 2017, 10:05:01 PM »
I have a small question since I might do a run with the character sometime, but does Character 7 of Plus Disk (I have no idea how to do spoiler tags) not have Proof of Kinship? From what I've seen they don't, but I just want to be sure.

My closest save to an Awakening is at 51F of Corridor and I'd rather not slog through 20 floors to see myself unless I have to.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #746 on: June 20, 2017, 11:25:48 PM »
Yeah, Koishi doesn't get Proof of Kinship.

--

So I just noticed a very strange discrepancy with Sanae's Yasaka's Divine Wind, in that it was healing considerably less HP than it should have. With 14441 MAG and level 5 (1.2x multiplier), she should be healing an average of 22181 HP with no MAG buffs, but instead, she was healing in the 14-15K range. Looking at how healing was calculated, I realized that Yasaka's Divine Wind is a WND element spell card, and I had Aya in the frontline with her Ability to Manipulate Wind skill maxed out for -30% WND damage. I switched Aya out and started getting 22K heals. 22181 * 0.7 = 15526.

Elemental damage reducing skills reduce the healing from those same elements, geez. I guess that's something to report as a bug then?

...er, where do I report bugs?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 11:50:22 PM by LonelyGaruga »

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #747 on: June 22, 2017, 12:52:45 AM »
Yeowch, that does sound like a bug.  Although, does that also mean that elemental damage boosting effects increase the effects of healing spells?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 01:07:04 AM by Kirin no Sora »
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #748 on: June 22, 2017, 01:07:33 AM »
from what i am understanding he means that it reduces beneficial effects on your party. the enemy is not affected by it. however i wonder since from what i remember the regen from some bosses is counted as fire, if you increase how much you do with fire damage does the healing increases too?

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F
« Reply #749 on: June 22, 2017, 02:45:10 AM »
Yeowch, that does sound like a bug.  Although, does that also mean that elemental damage boosting effects increase the effects of healing spells?

Doesn't look like it. Was getting 22K heals from Healer Eirin's Prayer of Recovery regardless of whether Sanae with Power of the Living God maxed was present or not. Seems the elemental damage reducing skills only check to see if the player's party is being "damaged", and not the source of said damage.

Dunno how the healing reduction escaped playtesting when Reimu (I.E. a member of the starting party) has a SPI healing spell card and a skill that reduces SPI damage (and by extension, healing from SPI spell cards). Rumia has the same problem too. I mean, it's not really the kind of thing you look for unless you know it exists, but the probability of accidentally finding it seems high?

however i wonder since from what i remember the regen from some bosses is counted as fire, if you increase how much you do with fire damage does the healing increases too?

Tested with Suwako's Froggy Power! and the 7f Daphnids that use Slack Off. Without Suwako, Slack Off healed 731. With Suwako, Slack Off healed 1K. It seems that this is exactly the case.

So not only does your healing get nerfed by the elemental damage reducing skills, you buff your enemy heals with the elemental damage increasing skills. Geez!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 02:49:01 AM by LonelyGaruga »