Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Serp on March 19, 2011, 08:40:58 PM
-
Welcome to Zombie Apocalypse Mafia!
After the release of a weaponized virus that gives its victims a mighty strong hunger for uninfected brains, the world has been plunged into chaos. You survivors have managed to hole yourself up in a makeshift fortress, but some unusually crafty zombies have snuck in with you! Now you'll have to root them out by the tried and true method of voting each other to die one by one.
The Rules:
- This is a game that pits an informed minority against an uninformed majority. Play to fulfill your faction's victory condition to the best of your ability.
- Post in the game thread only in the daytime. Do not give any information about the game outside the game thread, unless given permission in your role PM.
- Days will last at most 72 hours. Nights will last at least 24 hours, but night ability targets sent more than 24 hours into the night are not guaranteed to be counted.
- To be counted, votes must be bolded, prefixed by two octothorpes (##), placed on their own line, and a similarly bolded and octothorped ##Unvote command must be posted before a new vote can be placed.
- The day will end when one player has a majority of the other players' votes. That player will be removed from the game and have his alignment and role abilities revealed.
- If no player has a majority of the votes by the end of the day, there will be no lynch and the game will pass into the night phase as normal.
- When a day phase comes in which the town could potentially lose the game before the next day phase, the town will be notified that it is in LYLO (pseudo-LYLO and true LYLO will not be distinguished), and the deadline will be lengthened to 120 hours.
- Don't directly quote mod PMs or otherwise try to use exact wording of private information to add legitimacy to your position.
- Players who go 24 hours without posting in the thread will be prodded via PM. Players who go 24 hours beyond that without posting may be either modkilled or replaced, as reserve players permit.
Still Alive/Undead:
2. Bardiche
3. capt. h
6. Dormio
12. PX
16. Zakeri
Brain Food:
11. NeoSerela, Town Radio Operator, lynched Day Four.
10. Edible, Town Biologist, killed Night Three.
8. huh what, Zombie Investigator, lynched Day Three.
4. Colt, Town Bodyguard, killed Night Two.
9. Kilgamayan, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day Two.
14. Shadoweh, Town Heroic Vigilante, destroyed by own ability Day Two.
13. Schezo, Zombie Hitman, dayvigged by Shadoweh, Day Two.
15. UncertainKitten, Town Cowboy Cop, killed Night One.
1. Affinity, Vanilla Townie, killed Night One.
5. Conquerer, Town Lawyer, destroyed by own ability Day One
7. Hanged Hourai, Traitor Mad Scientist, exposed by Conqueror's ability and lynched, Day One
Confirmation phase starts now. Post to show you're here and have received your role PM, and the first day will begin once a suitable number have confirmed.
-
Oh God how do you play this again
-
'Cause this is thriller, thriller night~
-
Pesco4u reporting for duty
-
-Finish nailing some more boards over the door-
Oh we got that covered already? I'm here.
-
> Confirm
-
##VOTE: UncertainKitten
Confirmed.
-
Confirm.
-
Aloha.
I think I may need to channel Infinity and his zombie hunting ways.
-
##Ragequit
Confirm
-
I've covered wars, ya know.
Confirmed.
-
You jerk PX.
Only a zombie could be so heartless.
You stole my spot in DotS.
And said spot was the BLUE spot.
When you didn't even add yourself to the playerlist.
Now what am I going to do for the next hour?
##Vote PX
-
confirm.
-
Zombies? Well, looks like someone went ahead and used the nuclear option on the rest of us. Now I have to hang out with you scraggly lot. Bunch of freebooters.
Confirmed.
-
Profirm
Because I'm a Pro at this game. Totes.
-
Confirmated!
-
Confirmed.
-
Alright, with all but one confirmed, I think it's time to start.
Day One
You may begin voting! The deadline is March 23rd 1:00 am GMT (March 22nd 6:00 pm PDT).
-
##Vote: huhwhat
ily
-
##Vote: capt. h
You shall repay me for your avatar... with your life!
-
##Vote: Dormio
Jerk
-
##Vote Serpentarius
OK, I'm serious here. Get this. Serpentarius, right, he knows all the roles and alignments, right? So he knows who the scum are, right? So what POSSIBLE town intent could he have for NOT TELLING US WHO THE SCUM ARE!?
-
##Vote: Yamameko no Naku Roda ni
##Vote: Suwako Moriya
##Vote: Kilgamayan
Do you see Kilga anywhere? I don't. He's not even in the game!
-
Which needs to die first?
PX who is forever confirmed scum or Conqueror who failed to deliver on his promise of vore.
DECISIONS.
-
The last game tells me Colt is unconfirmed scum. :ohdear:
But seriously. Oh. My. God. That avatar. Is cuter then all the ones that came before. GIVE IT TO ME.
##Vote Zakeri
-
VOTECOUNT - Setting Unsustainable Precedents Edition
Zakeri (1) - Shadoweh
Kilgamayan (1) - Conquerer
Dormio (1) - PX
capt. h (1) - Hanged Hourai
huh what (1) - NeoSerela
Not voting: Affinity, Bardiche, capt. h, Colt, Dormio, huh what, Kilgamayan, Kitten4u, Schezo, UK, Zakeri
-
Serp! Your votecount has a mistake! I'm voting Serpentarius! I'm sure this was just an oversight, right?
-
##Vote Dormio
Fencesitting.
-
Serp! Your votecount has a mistake! I'm voting Serpentarius! I'm sure this was just an oversight, right?
This is why lynching the mod is impossible. 'Cause he can just have a little "oversight" about any votes on him.
-
Serp, I do the impossible and kick reason to the curb.
WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM!?
-
UK/Serp is reading like a townie/townie scuffle to me.
-
##Vote Schezo
His avatar is clearly evil.
-
You got something against Crown Bois?
UK stop working against town's win condition. We need to lynch scum, not third party moderators.
-
capt h.: Voting should probably use those cute [b ] [/b] tags. Probably.
@Shadoweh: How do you know the mod is third party? It's POSSIBLE to do a scum moderator, though difficult. And what if the mod is an SK!
-
...I have no idea how those quote tags got there.
-
##Vote Schezo
His avatar is clearly evil.
Be sure to bold your votes, like so: [b]##Vote: UncertainKitten[/b]
-
inb4 Serp channeling NeoSerela.
-
NeoSerela is already playing so I'm pretty sure the mod isn't scum.
-
inb4 Serp channeling NeoSerela.
I'd hope he at least doesn't do it as horribly lazily as me!
...I did actually work out a different mechanic for that gimmick that made it much bett-/me gets hit with a blunt object and shuts up
...I'm not going to use it on Motk, I swear!
-
NeoSerela is obviously channeling his scum self. We should lynch him immediately.
That gimmick would have been alot cooler if you'd actually played it you know.
-
yeah pretty much
Er, to the second sentence. One should never underestimate my procrastinatory abilities!
Besides, I wish I had rolled scum this game. I was hoping I would! But it's nice to be playing again either way.
OR MAYBE I AM SCUM #UNVOTE VOTE NEOSE-no that'd be dumb k
-
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7/avatar1281300497963.jpg)
>add one "Night Kill"
Clearly scum. Lynch!
---
In all due serious. ##VOTE: NeoSerela
Jokevote stage is over. Why are you posting uselessly, Neo? Your messing about will only prolong jokevotes stage, and jokevotes stage is a boring and senseless stage for the game to be in! Resident RVS hater represent.
-
Well, at least now I know to auto lynch NeoSerela if he ever plays a Choose Your Side game.
Also
##Vote Bardiche
Why are you voting Serela for posting uselessly when all of my opening posts have been just as useless? And not even mentioning this fact?
-
VOTECOUNT - Eight Way Tie Edition
Bardiche (1) - UncertainKitten
NeoSerela (1) - Bardiche
Dormio (1) - huh what
Zakeri (1) - Shadoweh
Kilgamayan (1) - Conquerer
Dormio (1) - PX
capt. h (1) - Hanged Hourai
huh what (1) - NeoSerela
Not Voting: Affinity, capt. h, Colt, Dormio, Kilgamayan, Kitten4u, Schezo, Zakeri
-
what huh?
Dormio is 2 different people?
-
Oh right,
##Vote Schezo
You got something against Crown Bois?
He scares me.
A lot.
-
##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche
Why would you choose Serela over Shadoweh, who is doing the exact same thing?
That said, I don't particularly like the RVS either, but your vote feels forced to me. From what I've seen, cases revolving around slamming people over how they they handle the RVS usually turn out to target townies with playstyle differences rather than actual scum.
-
Joke vote phase is over? I must have missed this memo. I can sympathize with the desire to get it over and done with but declaring it dead when it doesn't appear to be is kinda eh.
That being said ##Vote: Dormio because I want to vote for someone with multiple votes but voting Bard is uninteresting for the reasons that have been provided.
-
Jokevote stage is over. Why are you posting uselessly, Neo?
Okay, I can understand that posting too much fluff=not good, but... uh, plenty of other people were still doing useless witty banter at the same time. Arbitrarily deciding that somewhere jokevoting ended when clearly no one was being serious or made any kind of semblance of even a weak ED1 case is silly; until your post, of course, but that's afterwords, and therefore irrelevant to the suggested case!
...I seem to recall me and Bard getting into a similar town/town scuffle in JK9 Mafia as I might have started right now over this, but due to said example, I know it's probably not going to get anywhere! Well, um, except helping town out of RVS. Well that's a good enough reason. Sure why not.
tl;dr BARD THAT IS SUCH A MISREP ##Unvote ##Vote:Bardiche OMGUS!
I think stating that I'm not being very serious about it might kind of defeat the intended purpose, but it's better then jokevoting I suppose
-
gdi everyone beat me to the punch
-
VOTECOUNT - Mod Fails the Principle of Identity Edition
Bardiche (3) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Dormio (2) - PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Schezo (1) - capt. h
NeoSerela (1) - Bardiche
Zakeri (1) - Shadoweh
Kilgamayan (1) - Conquerer
capt. h (1) - Hanged Hourai
huh what (0) - NeoSerela
Not Voting: Affinity, Colt, Dormio, Kitten4u, Schezo, Zakeri
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch.
-
Lets be clear - I was not joke voting.
I don't think we're going to be able to get scum this early without the scum messing up somehow. So I voted Schezo because he is the most anti-town player in this game. We have a 1/4 chance of him being scum (like everyone else), but if he's town, we still get rid of our biggest liability.
-
I don't think we're going to be able to get scum this early without the scum messing up somehow. So I voted Schezo because he is the most anti-town player in this game. We have a 1/4 chance of him being scum (like everyone else), but if he's town, we still get rid of our biggest liability.
Huh, what?
Why is Schezo the most anti-town out of all of us again? Is there some unknown grudge you have that I'm unaware of?
-
Bardiche did the same thing as town in JK9 so I'm quite disillusioned with voting him for that reason. It's really not that interesting.
huhwhat deserves a vote because slamming people over slamming people over how they handle the RVS usually turn out to target townies with playable differences rather than actual scum too. It goes on forever because there are more town than scum. Furthermore, why mention the choice between Serela and Shadoweh when you disagree with the slamming entirely?
##Vote: huhwhat
And capt. h, why is Schezo the most anti-town in the game?
-
That said, I don't particularly like the RVS either, but your vote feels forced to me. From what I've seen, cases revolving around slamming people over how they they handle the RVS usually turn out to target townies with playstyle differences rather than actual scum.
I like how you're trying to argue that to the guy who 'jokevoted' his scum buddy last game. Shouldn't you have experience now that this isn't 100% true?
That being said ##Vote: Dormio because I want to vote for someone with multiple votes but voting Bard is uninteresting for the reasons that have been provided.
[/b]##Unvote
##Vote Kilgamayan
That's a horrible excuse. What reasons? No one posted a 'reason' not to vote for Bard before you posted.
-
Huh, what?
Why is Schezo the most anti-town out of all of us again? Is there some unknown grudge you have that I'm unaware of?
Nah, I just watched the last game.
Without insider knowledge, I was sure Schezo was scum right until the last play. And he voted with Bardiche and Conqueror in every single vote.
-
##Unvote
##Vote Kilgamayan
Still can't use syntaxes har har
-
##Unvote
##Vote: huh what
I believe we went through this exact thing last game. Shadoweh tried too hard to pull us out of RVS with meh reasoning, then both scum present jumped on her. Repeat performance anyone?
4 New reply
gdi
-
Oh, well, I guess my vote wasn't one a guy with multiple votes by the time I made it! Sad face.
Still uninterested in voting Bard, so I guess I get my choice of who I want to have multiple votes.
##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela
As good a choice as any for caring a bit more than necessary about Bard's vote on him.
Cut by a zillion people including Shadoweh: The reasons that can be found in the posts that vote for Bard, of course. I think you are misreading or some such because I am saying the provided reasons to vote for Bard are uninteresting, not the provided reasons not to vote for him.
-
...wait what
Schezo hasn't even done anything yet and you're already declaring him the most anti-town player and a big liability. That's just... what?
Without insider knowledge, I was sure Schezo was scum right until the last play. And he voted with Bardiche and Conqueror in every single vote.
...and how does that make him anti-town and a big liability this game?
-
Ooops got ninja'd a bunch and forgot to then mention anywhere in my post that I am referring to capt. h.
Just to be clear about that.
-
@Affinity: What makes HW worse than my Bard vote?
@Capt. h.: So, may I be clear that you are advocating a policy lynch? May I further extrapolate you don't plan to scum hunt at all?
@HH: Again, why the hate on HW as opposed to UK who has apparently done the same thing?
-
We have a 1/4 chance of him being scum (like everyone else), but if he's town, we still get rid of our biggest liability.
Cool info. Where'd you get it from?
##Unvote
##Vote: Capt. h
Voting for people who try to get us out of RVS or for the people voting for those people is silly in my opinion.
-
@Conquerer: Is that a serious vote?
-
I believe that is.
##Unvote
##Vote: Capt. H
Same reasoning.
Joke reason: Your name is annoying to type.
-
It's better than anything else I have to go on right now.
-
...wait what
Schezo hasn't even done anything yet and you're already declaring him the most anti-town player and a big liability. That's just... what?
...and how does that make him anti-town and a big liability this game?
@Affinity: What makes HW worse than my Bard vote?
@Capt. h.: So, may I be clear that you are advocating a policy lynch? May I further extrapolate you don't plan to scum hunt at all?
@HH: Again, why the hate on HW as opposed to UK who has apparently done the same thing?
First off, I do plan to scum hunt. The problem is that last game, I scum hunted from the outside. Scezo came up as very, very obvious scum right up until the mod declared the game over.
In other words, I'm voting for schezo because he scares me.
I plan on spending the first day listening to what everyone has to say. But I know first day votes rarely end in scum lynches, unless the scum does something very stupid. And I find Schezo scary.
And frankly, I don't have any reason to seriously vote fo anyone yet, because half the players haven't even replied. For all we know, none of the scum have even posted yet, and townies are just voting townies to the gallow.
-
@HH: Again, why the hate on HW as opposed to UK who has apparently done the same thing?
...What? Completely different. You are voting the person trying to get us out of RVS. I'm voting for the person grilling him for it. Look at last game.
And don't use third person, its annoying.
@capt.h
...wtf?
-
ARGH, STOP FUCKING POSTING SO FAST.
Hourai's case on me is confusing and I would like him to restate it, because as is it really just looks like a glob of awkward meta and misrep. Pretty sure I'm not voting Bard for trying to get us out of the RVS.
huhwhat deserves a vote because slamming people over slamming people over how they handle the RVS usually turn out to target townies with playable differences rather than actual scum too.
I'm assuming you're accusing me of voting somebody over probability here? I can't really tell what you're saying too well.
The issue is that Bardiche is jumping on Serela for something that is not particularly scummy in itself. It reads like a bad, forced case to me, ie something a scum would make when looking for a convenient earlygame target.
Furthermore, why mention the choice between Serela and Shadoweh when you disagree with the slamming entirely?
Because I was curious why he chose Serela over Shadoweh? I'm not sure how said curiosity makes me look worse. I wanted to know Bard's thought process, basically.
Cut by capt. h: So? Pesco scares me regardless of my alignment but I don't constantly push him for lynch. (Although, maybe I should.)
-
VOTECOUNT - Speedy Shuffling Edition
Bardiche (3) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
capt. h (2) - PX, Conquerer, Hanged Hourai
NeoSerela (2) - Bardiche, Kilgamayan
huh what (2) - Affinity, Hanged Hourai, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (1) - Shadoweh, Conquerer
Schezo (1) - capt. h
Dormio (0) - PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Zakeri (0) - Shadoweh
Not Voting: Colt, Dormio, Kitten4u, Schezo, Zakeri
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch.
-
Cool info. Where'd you get it from?
##Unvote
##Vote: Capt. h
Voting for people who try to get us out of RVS or for the people voting for those people is silly in my opinion.
The four scum? Post 809 of the previous game - Edible said that big team games have a standard 4 scum, 12 townies.
Sorry for the delay, I wanted to look it up before I posted.
-
Cut by capt. h: So? Pesco scares me regardless of my alignment but I don't constantly push him for lynch. (Although, maybe I should.)
Hmmm...
Good point.
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
-
Mm. Eh, I'll let him answer. I'll state I find your reasoning invalid. But not necessarily scummy.
@capt h.: What do you feel the liklihood is of a lynch occuring within the next 4 hours? Next 8? Next 16? Before everyone has chimed in? Secondly, do you think an attitude that "we aren't likely to catch scum D1" helps to catch scum in any way?
@HH: Not sure I understand the difference. Elaborate?
@capt h.: Why did you feel the need to look that up? Worried about not looking consistent?
...wait, are you seriously claiming Pesco is more anti town than PX from what little I've seen of PX from the outside?
-
And frankly, I don't have any reason to seriously vote fo anyone yet, because half the players haven't even replied. For all we know, none of the scum have even posted yet, and townies are just voting townies to the gallow.
For all we know, maybe they have shown up. Who knows? But there are already plenty of (semi?)-serious votes out there by now. So you should put out your opinions on what's already on the table.
The four scum? Post 809 of the previous game - Edible said that big team games have a standard 4 scum, 12 townies.
Sorry for the delay, I wanted to look it up before I posted.
Er, okay. I suppose that makes sense.
@PX Nice wagon jump.
Cut by capt. h's latest vote: Why? Can you at least give reasoning or is this another joke vote?
-
UK: What's this about PX? You people are posting so ridiculously fast that I can't tell what's going on anymore. @_@
Is Pesco even playing this game?
-
Am I missing something or did three people in a row really not realize Pesco's not playing this game?
-
@HW: I read one of the games when I first came back from lynched. PX looked terrible, IIRC. If I were forced to policy lynch one or the other, I'd pick PX over Pesco 110% of the time. But that doesn't incredibly matter.
As for why I bring it up, it's capt. h.'s series of policy votes.
@Kilga: Uh...^-^;
I was just playing along, that's right!
-
Am I missing something or did three people in a row really not realize Pesco's not playing this game?
Welp. I saw Pesco4U in confirmation and my mind blanked.
-
For all we know, maybe they have shown up. Who knows? But there are already plenty of (semi?)-serious votes out there by now. So you should put out your opinions on what's already on the table.
Er, okay. I suppose that makes sense.
@PX Nice wagon jump.
Cut by capt. h's latest vote: Why? Can you at least give reasoning or is this another joke vote?
Nah, it's a joke vote.
##Unvote
Mm. Eh, I'll let him answer. I'll state I find your reasoning invalid. But not necessarily scummy.
@capt h.: What do you feel the liklihood is of a lynch occuring within the next 4 hours? Next 8? Next 16? Before everyone has chimed in? Secondly, do you think an attitude that "we aren't likely to catch scum D1" helps to catch scum in any way?
@HH: Not sure I understand the difference. Elaborate?
@capt h.: Why did you feel the need to look that up? Worried about not looking consistent?
...wait, are you seriously claiming Pesco is more anti town than PX from what little I've seen of PX from the outside?
Well, of course I needed to look it up.
My job (my real job) is to correct the factual errors on the website at my school. I went through the yellow book pages to make sure that the phone numbers, addresses, and directions to about a hundred restaurants was correct, while also correcting the formatting inconsistencies. I do this kind of thing for a living.
-
Hmm.
(directed at capt. h.)
-
Why are people voting capt. h again? He's basically being Zent from MotK Mafioso right now and I am immediately suspect of PX and Conqueror for doing nothing beyond chiming in just to vote him and saying nothing else worthwhile.
-
Cut by a zillion people including Shadoweh: The reasons that can be found in the posts that vote for Bard, of course. I think you are misreading or some such because I am saying the provided reasons to vote for Bard are uninteresting, not the provided reasons not to vote for him.
So you mean this part?
Joke vote phase is over? I must have missed this memo. I can sympathize with the desire to get it over and done with but declaring it dead when it doesn't appear to be is kinda eh.
Maybe I am misreading because I can't find the reason not to vote for him here. Maybe that's because I can't find a clear opinion.
capt.h: Bwaahahahaha! Schezo is like, as transparant as plasti-wrap. You'll see eventually. You can't policy lynch Pesco though, he's not here unless K4U wasn't joking. And if you try to policy lynch her I will murder you.
-
I'm currently working on the course catalog. There are at least a hundred words in there that don't exist. Academics tend to use big words without making sure the suffixes can work on those words.
-
/me hyper facepalms
Replace all instances of Schezo with PX. DAMN YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS WITH YOUR WHIPPERSNAPPERNESS!
/me shakes her walking stick at them
-
Shadoweh: My stated reason to not vote for him is because the stated reasons to vote for him are uninteresting. If reasons to vote for someone do not appeal to me then I'm not going to vote for them. I'm not sure how "unclear" that really is.
capt h.: There is already far too much noise in this thread, please stop contributing to it by making posts unrelated to the game. Especially when you currently do not have a vote down anywhere.
-
You're no fun Kilga, I get back after a 6 month hiatus and you're all "NO NOISE EVER >=[!" Can't have any fun around here :(
-
yeah pretty much
Er, to the second sentence. One should never underestimate my procrastinatory abilities!
Besides, I wish I had rolled scum this game. I was hoping I would! But it's nice to be playing again either way.
OR MAYBE I AM SCUM #UNVOTE VOTE NEOSE-no that'd be dumb k
A sarcastic confession. You know, this looks like a scum tactic.
Well, are you scum, NeoSerela?
-
I went away to eat lunch.
Now we're on page 3.
What the hell just happened?
And there are votes on Pescar what.
Anyway, I have some stuff to do right now, so I'll read through this mess a bit later.
Though capt.h's argument against Schezo is baffling, to say the least.
Warning - while you were typing 11 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
... What.
-
The extra noise in this thread is unnecessary is allowing people to get away with drive-by posts that do very little to express proper opinions, though. See: Conqueror and PX. I seriously want to see a concrete post from both of them like right now, because their one-liners on capt. h express little beyond a desire to jump on somebody for typical newbie derp while ignoring everything else that is currently going on in the game. I would be willing to switch my vote to one of them, in fact, and it's irritating that everybody is ignoring them due to the posting storm.
tl;dr version of my opinions up to this point: Bard's jump on Serela is worth a vote, Conqueror and PX are bad, all three need to speak.
-
@huh what
I made my case because the other ones were unappealing (and I thought it might be some sort of slip-up on his side).
Voting Bard for having a forced vote to bring us out of RVS is silly. Voting huh what for slamming him is also silly, but slightly less so because of the silliness of his own vote. Voting Neo is...better, I suppose, as his reaction to Bard's vote was a bit on the defensive side. But otherwise I don't really see anything worth voting for.
PX looks bad for his blatant copying of my vote, but given his previous track record as town, I can't make any conclusions from that.
I think my vote on capt h. is as good here as anywhere.
-
Kilga: Actually, the way you put it right there makes perfect sense. Agree with the no noise policy.
I really want to vote PX for his idiot newbie bandwagon but I think he can't help but look like scum. You should get that checked. In general to everyone, last game was awesome but it isn't the only game in existence and is not the be all and end all of mafia situations. I think I'll make that a real vote for now and evaluate later.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
-
A sarcastic confession. You know, this looks like a scum tactic.
Well, are you scum, NeoSerela?
...okay I'm writing off capt. h as a big newbie right now. And as such, this makes him the classic EASY SCUM TARGET. Agreeing wholeheartedly with that huhwhat is saying, as it's what I would be saying if huhwhat hadn't.
Dear god there's a lot of posting going on.
ninja by Conq. I understand what you are saying, as it is early d1 and I see why a vote on capt. h can be considered as good as the other likely choices (Me/Bard/Huhwhat, from what I've seen). However, I also still think that capt.h is an easy scum target and the least beneficial for town to be voting at the moment due to simply being nibby. And as such, making my SRSVOTE now.
##Unvote ##Vote:Conqueror
-
Bard's jump on Serela is worth a vote.
You see, I don't get this at all. Do you really find Bard's vote on NeoSerela that scummy? Of course it's forced - it's the first case. If he continues to pursue it, then I'd be willing to take a second look at it.
-
Do not forgot, Serela, that bad players are not exempt from being scum.
@Conquerer: Seeing as my vote is for similar reasons, I find it incredibly interesting Bard turned a blind eye to several other people guilty of the same thing. Generally people that are harder to lynch than Serela, unless Serela has become the towniest town to ever town in the past six months.
-
VOTECOUNT - New Page Edition
Bardiche (2) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
NeoSerela (2) - Bardiche, Kilgamayan
huh what (2) - Affinity, Hanged Hourai, NeoSerela
Conquerer (1) - NeoSerela
PX (1) - Shadoweh
capt. h (1) - Conquerer, Hanged Hourai
Dormio (1) - PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conquerer
Schezo (0) - capt. h
Zakeri (0) - Shadoweh
Not Voting: capt. h, Colt, Dormio, Kitten4u, Schezo, Zakeri
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch.
-
I personally did not read Bardiche's vote as an attempt to end the RVS. :s It seemed serious to me.
As of now, my opinion of Bard is generally pending on how his opinions has changed since his Serela vote. I think I may have interpreted him incorrectly. More than willing to switch to Conqueror or PX if this turns out to be the case, but for now I'm content staying on Bard.
-
UK: Of course he's not me.
Okay, for everyone clearing Bard for destroying the RVS. He posted something intended to stir the game up and then left us to argue amongst ourselves. I don't think it's a scumtell but it's not exactly 100% clear material.
-
Nobody is voting Bard for ending the RVS, or even for trying to end it. Why is everybody assuming this is the case?
-
@UK: I don't know about the lynchability of players so I can't comment on that. But people can only vote for one player at a time, and Neo just happened to be the last poster in that long chain of blah posts, so eh.
Oh, and I'm not clearing Bard. Anyway, I'm more interested in what Bard has to say on what's happened since then. We can guess mindlessly at the intention of his first post if you wish.
@huh what: Let me get this straight, so I can be sure where you're coming from. So you're voting him for picking out NeoSerela out of a number of other candidates?
-
No, I'm voting him because his vote on NeoSerela is founded around actions of Serela's that aren't really scummy at all. It's a forced, bad case and it reeks of scum intent.
-
And as I've been saying, if it really -was- intended to push of out of the RVS, then I can understand it a bit more, I suppose. I have so far been operating under the impression that his vote was entirely serious and that he currently wants Serela lynched.
-
Shadoweh: o ok! Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am still often of the mindset where I assume that my intent is always super-obvious even though it is, well, not always. :C
I was actually going to give Conqueror a bit of a pass because I thought he had actually tried to put some effort into his vote with the "hey where did 1/4 come from" but then I looked back and saw that he acknowledged capt h.'s explanation with "oh, that makes sense" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581613.html#msg581613) and yet his vote is still there. He "doesn't really see anything worth voting for" and thinks his vote on capt. h is "as good here as anywhere" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581650.html#msg581650) but if he accepts the explanation capt h. provided then that defeats the only support his vote had, and he has yet to point at anything else capt. h has done as being something he thinks is scummy. So...there's no apparent reason for the vote that he still clings to! Good enough for me to switch.
##Unvote
##Vote: Conqueror
Also just FEI Bard left because he's Euro and thus in bed.
Speaking of! See you all in eight.
-
@Shadoweh: Huh? Sense. You're not making it.
Kilga's case is interesting, still want Bard reaction
@Conquerer: Well, Shadoweh and I, as far as I know, are fairly tough against lynches. I KNOW I am, and that ability hasn't disappeared in the past six months, at least not on MS. NeoSerela was a kind of slightly below average player last I played, and a decent scapegoat for scum (though rather decent at BEING scum). So, if I were scum trying to see where I could go with this "too much noise" case, I'd pick Serela out of us three.
-
Done eating, and I see another page of posts. God dammit Chaore, I feel like this game is going to be a huge headache.
capt. h - So your Schezo vote is not a joke vote?
Lets be clear - I was not joke voting.
I don't think we're going to be able to get scum this early without the scum messing up somehow. So I voted Schezo because he is the most anti-town player in this game. We have a 1/4 chance of him being scum (like everyone else), but if he's town, we still get rid of our biggest liability.
So you're just using meta and personal bias as reasoning to vote someone on D1, and call it a serious vote?
In other words, I'm voting for schezo because he scares me.
I plan on spending the first day listening to what everyone has to say. But I know first day votes rarely end in scum lynches, unless the scum does something very stupid. And I find Schezo scary.
And frankly, I don't have any reason to seriously vote fo anyone yet, because half the players haven't even replied. For all we know, none of the scum have even posted yet, and townies are just voting townies to the gallow.
So.... Then you're saying the Schezo vote WAS NOT SERIOUS? Not to mention all this Bardiche and co. stuff was going on at the same time.
Looking through the rest of your posts, absolutely no effort in trying to help town. He is essentially the most anti-town so far, even more so than the people who haven't posted yet.
I'll get on to other people, the way the game wen so far it seems that you have to post fast or get ninja'd.
-
@huh what: Alright, well I took the second interpretation.
@Kilga: Well, I haven't seen anything from anyone else yet that has made me want to switch from capt. h. Has he provided any real opinions on any of the cases on the table yet? I can tell he's trying, but he really hasn't done that yet. While I don't find it particularly scummy (the day's only just started, he's a new player, etc.) at this point none of the other players seem scummy to me either. Hence, my vote.
-
UK: Nevermind, it won't make sense if you didn't read the last game.
Kilga: You haven't played in awhile and never with me.. or alot of people here. I'd suggest, what did you call it, condescending mode?
Conqueror: Are you going to come back to what you think on Bard later? :V
-
I did not. After the first game I read when I was unlynched I kinda got the impression MotK mafia had become trainwreck mafia even more so than prior to my lynching. Though I suppose I get to test that first hand now.
Hmm, let me state that I can see potential scum intent in both Conquerer and capt. h. I plan on giving them more time to hang themselves or fix it. The cases should be forthcoming this game day though, so feel free to remind me of this later.
-
Conqueror: Are you going to come back to what you think on Bard later? :V
Of course. :V But really, once he wakes up and makes another post, yes.
@UK: Oh you. I'll be able to make more substantial posts tomorrow once the rest of town has woken up and checked in.
-
Well, the big thing is it's tricky right now, and if I go for it now, it might screw up future results, and there are still non scum intent possibilities. Enough so I'm not confident opening the box yet, so to speak.
-
@huh what: Alright, well I took the second interpretation.
@Kilga: Well, I haven't seen anything from anyone else yet that has made me want to switch from capt. h. Has he provided any real opinions on any of the cases on the table yet? I can tell he's trying, but he really hasn't done that yet. While I don't find it particularly scummy (the day's only just started, he's a new player, etc.) at this point none of the other players seem scummy to me either. Hence, my vote.
Truth be told, you're right. I haven't formed many opinions yet. I'm still waiting on the last four players, who don't quite bother me yet with their absence.
And honestly, until Shadoweh told me that Schezo was easy to see through, I was serious. I figure if Shadoweh is right, then I'll be able to see right through him later. That's why I removed my vote.
My case on NeoSerela is that I don't really trust people who make sarcastic confessions. In fact, I don't trust them at all. And after 24 hours, I may well vote for him. But I don't think I have enough of a case on NeoSerela for a vote on him. Although I think it's rare for anyone to have enough of a case on day 1 for a vote, so I might as well vote anyway.
Now Conqueror, you don't seem to have any strong opinions. On anybody. You have a case in defense of Bardiche, and a case against me.
Now why are you backing Bard?
-
That is about the most amazingly contradictory post ever, capt. h.
And if not contradictory, at the least waffly. You basically spend a paragraph saying "Well, I have a case on Serela and I'm not voting because it's not good enough, but then again it's D1 and you usually don't have good D1 cases, so maybe I should vote Serela, but I'm not actually going to because talking about it will make people think I'm being a ProActive Townie (tm)"
-
That is about the most amazingly contradictory post ever, capt. h.
And if not contradictory, at the least waffly. You basically spend a paragraph saying "Well, I have a case on Serela and I'm not voting because it's not good enough, but then again it's D1 and you usually don't have good D1 cases, so maybe I should vote Serela, but I'm not actually going to because talking about it will make people think I'm being a ProActive Townie (tm)"
My case against NeoSerela is weaker than my case against the non-participants at this point, and I'm assuming not all of the people who have yet to post are scum.
Frankly, the lurking looks more scummy to me than anything anyone has done so far. In 24 hours, I'll know who's posted.
-
UK: I'm biased, but I think it was a game worth reading.
capt.h does seem to be making the textbook Worst Newbie Posts Ever. What about it sounds less like newbtown and more like newbscum though?
capt.h: I'm flattered but keep in mind I could be wrong. Do you know what alignment I am?
-
OK? So, why did you need to tell us that you weren't voting Serela because it's a weak case, but it's D1 so maybe you should vote him after all? What purpose did that serve?
@Shadoweh: Jury is still out on whether it's newbtown or newbscum. I'm feeling a lot of "Shit, gotta look town!" from him, which townies, particularly newb townies, tend to be less concerned about.
-
Now Conqueror, you don't seem to have any strong opinions. On anybody. You have a case in defense of Bardiche, and a case against me.
My opinion is that the other cases are silly imo. My case is not a defense of Bard, it is a questioning of why other people are voting Bard for what I think are silly reasons to see if there are reasons there for voting that aren't as silly.
The rest of your post doesn't make any sense.
Oh and clarification on my #104. When I don't see anyone scummy to vote, I vote for the most anti-town player. Right now that looks to me like capt. h or PX.
@Shadoweh - I haven't been playing long enough to distinguish the difference between newbtown and newbscum.
-
@Conquerer: That's not the best habit. It screws up VCA, and if you're town can make you look worse than you are. I think there's enough to work with right now to at least have a minor scum suspicion.
-
... Oh. On a re-read, I realized that when Bardiche said "Jokevote phase is over.", he meant that he was intending to end it, not that he was telling Serela that it already was. I guess most of my case against him is null if his vote's intention really was just to pull us out of the RVS. I would still like to see something better from him, though.
##Unvote Bardiche
##Vote Conqueror
Out of Conqueror and PX, I think Conqueror is the worse of the two players so far. I've already stated my reasons for initially suspecting him (drive-by posting, awkward tunneling on capt. h whose actions are not scummy derp so much as newbie derp), but there are some other things that stick out to me too. Most notably, his lacking pressure of PX (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581613.html#msg581613) followed by a meta-backpedal here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.60.html) comes off as awkward fencesitting. He's batting at PX but not actually making a concrete stance, which looks especially odd when you consider how their opinions seem to line up. Even after being pressed, he still hasn't come up with a better case beyond rampant tunneling of capt. h, and his declaration of all the other current conflicts as silly seems rather odd when you consider that he himself is following a particularly weak case. He even admitted that he doesn't find capt. h that scummy in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581682.html#msg581682), and I can't say I understand what makes capt. h look worse than the other players who have been voted up to this point. Conqueror's current vote is essentially filler to make up for his lack of opinions in any other areas, and I can't say I like the way this looks.
There's still time to for me switch to PX, though, but I would like to see him continue his thoughts from his earlier posts before considering doing so.
@Shadoweh: Jury is still out on whether it's newbtown or newbscum. I'm feeling a lot of "Shit, gotta look town!" from him, which townies, particularly newb townies, tend to be less concerned about.
I don't particularly agree with this, considering that I have that mentality as town a lot of the time. :s Townies want to look townie so they don't get lynched, and I don't think newbtown are excluded from this.
-
I wouldn't have voted him in the first place if I hadn't had a minor scum suspicion (in my initial vote). But these latest posts just feel like newb flailing, and I've been there as both town and scum.
Anyway, sleep. I'll be able to make a more refined vote tomorrow.
-
But these latest posts just feel like newb flailing, and I've been there as both town and scum.
So if it's a null tell, why are you still voting him?
This is exactly why I think your vote comes off as filler. You're not really voting somebody for being scum at all.
-
@HW: There are ways that you can try to look town that are not faked. I suppose I should clarify that capt. h. is giving the impression he's faking it. "trying too hard", so to speak, while not actually having the town's goals in mind. It's one thing to do something knowing it'll make you look town because it advances the town goals. I'd argue that it's NOT a good thing to avoid doing something perceived as "scummy" when it could advance the town's goals, but that's a theory debate. It is definitely not a townie thought process to think "Does this make me look town?" as opposed to "How will this help the town?" Either way, haven't decided what capt. h. is thinking yet, just what it looks like.
-
Just so we're clear - are you saying that he's attempting to take generally pointless actions that only serve as attempts to make him look townier, or attempting to avoid taking actions that would make him look scummier? Up until now I had assumed it was the latter, but if it was the former, then I can understand where you're coming from. Or is it neither? I'm still a little lost here.
Truth be told, I've been skimming capt. h's posts up to now since I've been passing them off as extra noise that I don't want to read through (he doesn't even have a vote out, augh). I'll re-read him in a second to see if the Zent vibes remain.
-
It's the former, HW. He's posting and overexplaining and such and it feels like he's trying to be all "LOOK HOW TOWNIE I AM I AM DOING TOWNIE THINGS" without actually furthering the town's goals. It's like faking transparency, if that makes sense. Like, I usually looked town because I was fairly transparent in what I was thinking. It feels like he's trying to fake that. But it could be that his thoughts are just generally silly at this point.
-
Results of my quick capt. h readthrough are that it seems to me like he's just a paranoid newbie who is trying to hunt scum but has a poor grasp on what actually makes a person scummy, hence his suggestion of a utility lynch on Schezo and his intent to chase Serela over a joke.
It does bug me that he blatantly attempted to follow me when I brought up Pesco (who isn't even playing), though. Feels kind of like he was just trying to get the heat off of him.
It would be helpful if you could point out some examples of him "trying too hard", UK, since if there really are instances of him doing so, I pretty much missed them.
-
Well, you've already named a couple things. He tries to act knowledgeable with his 1/4th figure. When called out on it he spends two posts overexplaining why he did it. He also is indirectly trying to establish he is a better asset to the town than his policy lynches. The post I called him out on most recently also has a lot of the overexplaining with regards to Serela. And then he has a nice little 180 at the end, waiting for approval from the town so he can't be called on it if he votes Serela. That last isn't really trying too hard so much as an example of overconsciousness regarding towniness, and not the good kind.
-
Hm, fair enough. I admit I hadn't picked up on how he handled the Serela vote in my re-read, interesting. I'd also like to note that I was reading his posts in isolation, so only now does it occur to me that nobody actually pressed him in between his initial vote for Schezo here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581558.html#msg581558) and his over-explanation of himself here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581568.html#msg581568). Before I realized this, I had assumed the latter post originated from him defending himself, but I guess not. Definitely seeing the overconciousness now.
As for what this actually means, I'd say it casts capt. h in a fairly bad light now. I would like to see him get a vote out and talk about some other people so that I can manage a stronger read on him. It should be noted that all of capt. h's focus so far seems to be on his own cases, which is making him come off as a bit single-minded. He's not being much of a team player for town as a whole with this lack of input despite otherwise appearing to have the intention of acting as a townie, and I can't say I'm fond of this. I do not have as much interest in seeing capt. h hang as I do in the lynch of Conqueror or PX, but I find it imperative that he steps his game up in the near future.
-
Or not, seeing as huh what posted.
Most notably, his lacking pressure of PX (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581613.html#msg581613) followed by a meta-backpedal here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.60.html) comes off as awkward fencesitting. He's batting at PX but not actually making a concrete stance, which looks especially odd when you consider how their opinions seem to line up.
Calling the first post of mine pressure on PX is a bit of a stretch, calling the second one a meta backpedal just doesn't make sense, as I hadn't provided any opinions on PX before that. Also, I wouldn't say PX's opinions line up with mine, seeing as he has yet to say anything on any of the cases. For the record, my stance on PX is that he is acting blatantly anti-town...as he has been even in the past. I can't read anything off his bandwagon hop and his non-sensical grilling of capt h.'s derp.
Even after being pressed, he still hasn't come up with a better case beyond rampant tunneling of capt. h, and his declaration of all the other current conflicts as silly seems rather odd when you consider that he himself is following a particularly weak case.
My case may have started with the silly comment on the number of scum in the game, but as capt. h has spoken more he certainly hasn't done himself any favors with the blatant reluctance to take a side. And while I don't find it immediately scummy, it's certainly not town, and that makes it better than the other cases which have been formed with minimal reasoning.
He even admitted that he doesn't find capt. h that scummy in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581682.html#msg581682), and I can't say I understand what makes capt. h look worse than the other players who have been voted up to this point.
I can't say I understand what makes the other players who have been voted up to this point look worse than capt. h! So why shouldn't I be voting for capt. h in that case?
Conqueror's current vote is essentially filler to make up for his lack of opinions in any other areas, and I can't say I like the way this looks.
Now that is a misrep. I have a clear opinion on the other cases, and that is that they are bad. Apparently you agree with me, at least with your latest unvote of Bard.
So if it's a null tell, why are you still voting him?
This is exactly why I think your vote comes off as filler. You're not really voting somebody for being scum at all.
I am voting someone for being scummier than the other options on the table.
huh what's revised reasoning for voting Bardiche is unnerving me a little, but that's not really an issue because he could have misread Bard's first post.
This latest post of misreps is just argh though. And if your reason for voting me is because you find me to be tunneling in on capt. h to make up for a lack of opinions, then wouldn't it make more sense for you to be voting PX?
-
While I'm at it, it should be noted that these opinions on capt. h do not really affect my takes on Conqueror and PX, since their votes on him were entirely irrelevant to my reasons for disliking the captain.
Ninja'd by Conqueror. Will address that in a bit.
-
@HW: Well, as I said, I'm not SOLD on scum yet, just leaning heavily there. I also want a Bardiche response to my concerns. To be honest I don't understand your unvote. I thought you were voting because of his exclusion of other players in his "posting a lot of noise" thing, like I was.
-
Looking back and I see that NeoSerela's vote on me is because capt. h is an "easy scum target", ignoring that capt. h could be scum. But he understands why I might be voting him. What. I'll look at this again tomorrow.
-
@ Conqueror:
Calling the first post of mine pressure on PX is a bit of a stretch, calling the second one a meta backpedal just doesn't make sense, as I hadn't provided any opinions on PX before that. Also, I wouldn't say PX's opinions line up with mine, seeing as he has yet to say anything on any of the cases. For the record, my stance on PX is that he is acting blatantly anti-town...as he has been even in the past. I can't read anything off his bandwagon hop and his non-sensical grilling of capt h.'s derp.
Except you had. In the same sentence. "PX is anti-town" is an opinion.
Okay, let's pretend that this was your first game with PX, although you knew he had an amount of experience equal to the amount he actually has. Would you find his apparent anti-townness scummy or not?
Basically, I don't buy that he's worth ignoring entirely just because he's played poorly as town in the past. It is essentially the same as letting somebody get away with acting scummy just because they've acted scummy as town. Also, how is his grilling nonsensical when it's pretty much the same as yours? Do you consider your own case on capt. h to be nonsensical?
I can't say I understand what makes the other players who have been voted up to this point look worse than capt. h! So why shouldn't I be voting for capt. h in that case?
Your lack of interest in the other cases should not allow you to pretend that they don't exist and give you a pass to only focus on the captain. Tunneling on one player while occasionally saying "I don't agree with anything else" when you are not even explaining why you don't agree with anything else might as well be the same as tunneling. Since you believe the cases are bad, the least you could do would be to explain exactly why you disagree with them so that town has your input. A lack of a shown thought process regarding your opinions on the other cases gives me the impression that your takes on them are simply throwaway comments.
I am voting someone for being scummier than the other options on the table.
What I fail to see is exactly why you are considering him scummy. Your case is awkwardly structured and you are continuing to pursue it even after conceding some points to your target. It looks as if you are scum hanging on too hard to the case they believed was the most convenient so that they do not have to backpedal and come up with serious opinions on other players (as that would both draw attention to them and possibly give them extra chances to slip up).
I don't understand your last paragraph at all. Why would I be voting PX again?
@ UK:
To be honest I don't understand your unvote. I thought you were voting because of his exclusion of other players in his "posting a lot of noise" thing, like I was.
My main reasons for voting Bardiche originated from misconceptions I had about his vote on Serela; namely, I thought he fully intended to see Serela hang over a trivial matter generally unrelated to alignment while in reality his forcefulness was a push out of the RVS. This makes the general weakness of his vote somewhat more understandable, I believe. My questioning of Bardiche's choice of Serela was mainly because I wanted to learn a bit more of his thought process behind the vote. It was not the primary reason for my suspicion so much as an attempt to extract information so that I could further judge him.
-
Eh, since so much happened in the span of... 5 hours, I think I'll ditch the things I said about huhwhat. The reason I went for him instead of UK and others is because he said something about how slamming people for how they play RVS is bad, which I disagreed with.
On Conqueror, everything seems to have been said to death. I will point out that lashing against huhwhat instead of Kilga who had pointed out similar reasons for voting him seems rather defensive and odd.
Furthermore, Conqueror seems to view scumhunting as a rather passive thing, e.g waiting for other people to make mistakes and lashing out at them as 'scummy', when it is really meant to be something active (e.g asking questions, pressing people). Saying that other people aren't as scummy as capt. h is thus pretty much lazy; it is up to you to find people who are scummier than capt. h through your own intervention, and given that there were so many candidates (e.g PX, Serela, etc.), you don't seem to be scumhunting at all. Even PX seems to be putting up that kind of active scumhunting more than you are, with questions on Schezo, etc, even if it's somewhat copied. This kind of apathetic play pretty much makes you my preferred lynch for now; the fact that you raised up PX and Serela in here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581650.html#msg581650) and dropped them afterwards just strengthens the fact.
##Unvote
##Vote: Conqueror
I don't have many problems with capt.h beyond the apparently newbness; his points about how Conqueror is defending Bard when he had no strong opinions at all is more original than what Conqueror has come up with all game.
---
Serela, what are you really voting Conqueror for?
-
And now we magically jump to page 5.
What.
Anyway.
Allow me to attempt to channel Infinity and his zombie hunting ways.
Kilgamayan: Do you care to explain why you found the reasons for Bard uninteresting compared to reasons for me which were basically random votes?
capt. h: "We can't do anything unless scum slips up so let's not do anything that could pressure scum into making a mistake." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581568.html#msg581568)
What.
Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
D:
Since Conqueror seems to be the primary target, reading more on him before I post about him.
-
Ugh, I have a headache. @Affinity, huh what, I'll answer the majority of your points tomorrow.
-
On Conqueror, everything seems to have been said to death. I will point out that lashing against huhwhat instead of Kilga who had pointed out similar reasons for voting him seems rather defensive and odd.
Furthermore, Conqueror seems to view scumhunting as a rather passive thing, e.g waiting for other people to make mistakes and lashing out at them as 'scummy', when it is really meant to be something active (e.g asking questions, pressing people). Saying that other people aren't as scummy as capt. h is thus pretty much lazy; it is up to you to find people who are scummier than capt. h through your own intervention, and given that there were so many candidates (e.g PX, Serela, etc.), you don't seem to be scumhunting at all. Even PX seems to be putting up that kind of active scumhunting more than you are, with questions on Schezo, etc, even if it's somewhat copied. This kind of apathetic play pretty much makes you my preferred lynch for now; the fact that you raised up PX and Serela in here and dropped them afterwards just strengthens the fact.
I don't have many problems with capt.h beyond the apparently newbness; his points about how Conqueror is defending Bard when he had no strong opinions at all is more original than what Conqueror has come up with all game.
Are we reading the same game here? PX has posted one blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target. Considering you're calling Conqueror out for not targetting anyone else in one sentence and acknowledging he's looked at two other players in another, this is suspicious. If you misread it PX didn't ask any questions to 'Schezo and co.' and said he would 'get on to other people.'
Ugh, I have a headache. @Affinity, huh what, I'll answer the majority of your points tomorrow.
You've said some version of 'I will look tomorrow' four times now. Are you doing this on purpose?
PX: ???
So, I went to look back at capt.h's posts and I have a weird contradiction here.
And honestly, until Shadoweh told me that Schezo was easy to see through, I was serious. I figure if Shadoweh is right, then I'll be able to see right through him later. That's why I removed my vote.
Post #71: capt.h unvotes Schezo and votes Pesco
Post #78: capt.h unvotes Pesco
Post #81: Shadoweh says Schezo is as transparant as plastic ilu Schezo
Do you see the contradiction here?
-
Welp, this is what happens when the game thread gets set up right when I go to sleep. I've skimmed through the thread, and capt.h's posts seem to stand out to me the most. My decision can easily change though, but I'll just put this here for now.
##Vote: capt. h
-
It's "Bardiche and co."
Anyways, tired from playing WC3. I'll get back to this tomorrow
-
Bardiche: Voting someone because they make useless posts, when everybody's posts are currently defined as useless, does not mean the RVS is now invalid.
Everyone voting Bardiche: Voting someone because they voted for something everyone is doing is not a valid reason to vote them. "Why X and not Y?" is a stupid question, because the answer is always going to be "because X is the first person who popped into my head when I voted for that reason."
Kilgamayan's case on Conqueror is theoretically sound. However, I don't really feel the way Conqueror is posting to be scumsourced as of yet.
Capt.h seems to have newbie anxiety. I remember Shadoweh posting last game in the post game that MoTK has a policy of punishing newbies, which then creates an unfriendly atmosphere for the newbies where whether they're town or not, they start to worry about every single thing they're saying, and are trying hard not to be lynched. This then backfires, as it makes people go "OMG, Self preservation = scum" which then results in their lynch. I like to think MotK's level of skill in mafia has evolved beyond the point the town is suppose to have no self preservation while scum focuses only on self preservation. Scum can still take a few hits, and are suppose to plan for when they do take hits by bussing, making cases on one another along with their cases on townie. Town, since they don't know each other, also need to focus on self-preservation because our numbers dwindle at a much higher rate than scum's. Basically, UK's argument for voting capt.h is silly, and she needs to come up with a better one if she wants to go down that road.
All in all, I kind of liked Capt.h's case on Schezo, silly as it is.
Last game, he voted along with scum.
He voted Town pretty much the entire game, as well.
In a three way between a confirmed townie, and one mafioso, he still tried to make a case on the townie.
He only voted mafia at the end of the game because the confirmed townie convinced the mafioso to confirm in thread that he was the last remaining mafioso.
Schezo is five kinds of anti-town
##Vote: Schezo
-
So, I went to look back at capt.h's posts and I have a weird contradiction here.
Post #71: capt.h unvotes Schezo and votes Pesco
Post #78: capt.h unvotes Pesco
Post #81: Shadoweh says Schezo is as transparant as plastic ilu Schezo
Do you see the contradiction here?
Well, at least he's not using his ability to travel through time (http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1351576#1351576) to cheat at the game.
(The point of this post is that this type of contradiction is silly, and is likely to be used by scum to lynch townies who are fumbling over themselves.)
-
Damn you people. I take a nap, run some errands and we are on page 5?! I'm going to say it again.
If you don't have anything to say other than fluff or I'll be back, do not push the post button. This game is already cluttered with a bunch of crap to wade through, don't add anymore.
---
I was going to entertain Capt. H's theory that I scare him :V but we left RVS so quickly I didn't get a chance to. :( I've written his first posts off as derp newbie town, but his later posts raise some eyebrows. Playing statistics wasn't a good move, but that was derp. Throwing around, "big liability" ,when I haven't even shown up, is what I did as new scum though, along with buddying up to Shadow about the throwaway comment on me is odd. His 109 is horrible except for the original idea that Conqueror is defending Bard which makes sense.
PX with the most blatant bandwagon jump I've ever seen on someone who was still pulling newbie derp out at that point, so he could ride what looked like an "easy lynch" out. Kept tunneling (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581681.html#msg581681)when there was plenty of stuff to go off of.
Conqueror is being passive-aggressive again, wait for others to do his scum hunting for him and it's not good. People have already said just about everything about him I would so.
Shadoweh has been rather lackluster this game. She fluffs some stuff that doesn't really mean anything (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581663.html#msg581663). Then asks Conqueror to elaborate on Bard (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581684.html#msg581684) when we have as much to work with on him as when he posted his first conversation starter post. She runs around asking more questions without answering any (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581705.html#msg581705). Then she goes and seems to redeem herself, except upon further inspection of her latest post she misreps Affinity by claiming that because Conqueror says he going to post more makes him better than PX who, while blatantly tunneling, has just as much up as Conqueror. It doesn't make Conqueror any better for saying they are coming because it boils down to, "did they post anything substantial?" and the answer to both of them is no. While she's at it, throws on a contradiction on Capt. H. to make him look worse.
It's a tough choice with who I want to get onto but the Shadoweh case is what worries me the most.
##Vote: Shadoweh
---
Bwaahahahaha! Schezo is like, as transparant as plasti-wrap. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581627.html#msg581627)
:< I wasn't that bad in GDC was I?
Zak: You didn't even give me a chance to post and I'm anti town. :<
-
>:?
I do not understand what Zakeri is trying to get across at all.
-
While I'm at it, Schezo's case on Shadoweh seems to be rather on the IIoA side (though I actually agree that Shadoweh has been rather underwhelming so far, will look into her later). I would like to see him state why her actions are scummy instead of only talking about what the actions are.
-
What do you mean why they are scummy? I just said she misrepresented Affinity while she did pretty much nothing so far this game while throwing a contradiction case out there to mislead town. What more do you want?
-
Your post came off like a report of Shadoweh's actions. You can't just expect us to draw conclusions as to why she's scummy ourselves from a recap of what she's done so far this game.
I do think I understand your point a bit better now, but your post still reads a bit awkwardly. Will have to look Shadoweh over regardless.
-
Everything Zak said about punishing newbies is true. I would also put Conqueror in the same easy town lynch category as capt.h . I don't know if Colt is new but his post is asking for it. I would like a better reason to vote for these three then 'their posts sound bad.' Note that I'm not voting him for time traveling powers, it was just weird enough to point out. I still expect a post from him on the matter.
Cut by.. Schezo. I'm not sure what you're getting at. PX has no content at all. Conqueror has more content right now at a glance by virtue of actually arguing his case with other people. No matter how scummy I think Conqueror is or isn't PX would rank on the bottom by default and I don't understand how there's a comparison. This applies to what I think of Affinity's post as well. You're also weirdly quoting my posts in ways that ignore the other people I was talking to in them. And.. I wasn't asking Conqueror to elaborate. I was joking that he sounded like his scum self.
Sorry I can't like, attack the entire game this time. Bard cut me by a few hours for mad anti-RVS shenanigans.
-
Actually I'm going to clarify what I mean by 'weirdly quoting my posts'. When I only want to address a part of someone's post I quote that specific part and pose a question. The way you linked to my posts implies that nothing else was said in them. Taking a closer look I feel like you've got some huge misreps about my intentions. Are we going to OMGUS all this game too?
-
PX has posted one blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target. Considering you're calling Conqueror out for not targetting anyone else in one sentence and acknowledging he's looked at two other players in another, this is suspicious. If you misread it PX didn't ask any questions to 'Schezo and co.' and said he would 'get on to other people.'
Not really. Conqueror's look at two other people consists of one sentence which he did not elaborate on for the rest of the game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581650.html#msg581650). And by PX being better I mean that PX has actively quoted parts of capt.h's posts (especially on the arbitrary vote on Schezo) and addressed those specific points, while Conqueror has been all defense and 'well, c apt.h is not that scummy since he addressed my minuscule concerns (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581590.html#msg581590), but he's scummiest since he doesn't seem to be commenting on any other case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581682.html#msg581682) so I'm going to keep my vote on him while defending myself'. In comparison, PX has actively addressed specific points from capt.h's posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581681.html#msg581681), which is more than Conqueror can vouch for, even if it's not properly elaborated.
And may I ask for what reason are you defending Conqueror by painting PX in a bad light?
As for Schezo, I don't think Shadoweh is misrepping on that point; I really claimed that PX looked better than Conqueror to me due to the above.
-
capt.h jumped on a non existent player, which was the main cause of suspicion from me. But then again I see your point, so I'll wait for what capt.h has to say next or how things develop.
##Unvote
-
Colt: Do you have anything to say about other players?
-
To be fair to Conqueror, the scum in the other game accidentally said there were three scum. After a reread to confirm, I haven't seen anything in his posts yet that would make me suspect him. Conversely PX doesn't seem to feel the need to defend himself yet or comment on, say, not capt.h so I'm more comfortable with disagreeing on that point. \
Edit: Hi Colt if you could like exist and tell us what you think of people that would be great. Did you know capt.h isn't the only player in the game?
-
WOAH WHAT, okay did Zakeri, who is not a newbie at all, really just take capt. h's Schezo case and use it himself in a serious manner. Mind=blown. I liked his post up until he did that. From a newbie it's one thing, from someone who knows what they're doing it's practically an excuse to have your vote on someone without them having to actually do anything wrong this game. We are not in RVS anymore, we have a bit of information to analyze from THIS game, which is far more relevant!
tl;dr zak is NOT voting someone who he thinks might be scum, and not a single one of the reasons for his vote even happened in the current game
In a three way between a confirmed townie, and one mafioso, he still tried to make a case on the townie.
...okay, I admit, THIS part about Schezo does legitimately worry me. But my point still stands.
I realize I've changed my vote in almost every one of my posts so far, but Zakeri is worrying me a hell of a lot more then Conq.
##Unvote ##Vote:Zakeri
Serela, what are you really voting Conqueror for?
He was voting a newbie doing newbie flailing. They are easy scum targets, they aren't usually informative lynches at all (except on the offchance they're actually scum, which they usually are not, and sadly even the more convincing cases on newbies don't flip scum any more often), etc. Making his vote less bad was the fact that it was ED1 and the other possibly cases weren't necessarily better to vote for instead, yet, but that doesn't negate the reasoning behind my voting for him at all.
-
@Kilga: Well, I haven't seen anything from anyone else yet that has made me want to switch from capt. h. Has he provided any real opinions on any of the cases on the table yet? I can tell he's trying, but he really hasn't done that yet. While I don't find it particularly scummy (the day's only just started, he's a new player, etc.) at this point none of the other players seem scummy to me either. Hence, my vote.
So your vote is on someone for something you don't find particularly scummy because you don't find anything particularly scummy about anyone else? What makes his not particularly scummy action stand out?
Oh hey upon a read continuation I see this reason morphed into "I vote for the antitowniest when I have no scumreads". Not only is this a fairly easy stance to hide behind at the point in the game at which it was presented (a number of serious cases had been made already, so clearly the potential was there), I have to question why it wasn't mentioned in response to me.
More reading, largely in huh what's camp as that back-and-forth carries on. No change in my vote as a result.
---
Kilgamayan: Do you care to explain why you found the reasons for Bard uninteresting compared to reasons for me which were basically random votes?
For the reasons Zakeri mentioned. To condense it down, it felt like people were voting for him because he didn't have multiple votes to cast in all directions for everyone that fit his voting criteria. Except for this:
No, I'm voting him because his vote on NeoSerela is founded around actions of Serela's that aren't really scummy at all. It's a forced, bad case and it reeks of scum intent.
Actually I'd say it's a fairly pro-scum thing for RVS to extend because more time spent on RVS means less time spent on legitimate scumhunting, which is pretty obviously good for scum. Continuing RVS shenanigans extends RVS time, so.
Also you do realize you are criticizing the first "legitimate" ED1 case as "forced" and "bad", right? Every such case ever has been that way, short of a scum VI claiming scum. :C
---
PX's one retort post is kinda bad, ED1 reasons tend to be relatively bad more often than not (note that there is a difference between bad reasons and no reasons) and nowhere in the part of capt. h's quoted post do I see any indication of the very loud THIS VOTE ISN'T SERIOUS label that PX tries to slap on it. Misrep makes me sad.
-
@Zak 136: One problem Zak. I'm not voting Capt. H.
I've merely expressed what I find odd about him, and have kept into consideration the points where it's just bad town play. Secondly, why did you give Bardiche an answer before he's shown up to answer? Thirdly, why do you spend one paragraph saying newbie punishing is bad...and then vote Schezo for being anti town? At the moment, I think I have to conclude your reasons for voting Schezo are silly.
However, you do at least hit what I was about to bring up about contradiction != scummy except in specific cases. Though for someone who is apparently so interested in consistency, that was an interesting mistake Shadoweh pointed out.
@Schezo 141: See, this is how townies get tricked into lynching townies. They decide that a single word is enough to determine why someone is scummy, without determining the why. That's one of the big reasons scum "tells" are becoming a worse and worse way to scumhunt, as compared to scum intent. OK, great, you've said Shadoweh misrepped Affinity. Question one is "how?" You may have already answered this, but feel free to requote yourself if you have. Question two is "How does this advance the goals of scum?" That latter question is more important than a rhetoric about "It's misrepping so it's bad!"
@Colt 146: All right, let's go with what I told Schezo.
One, HOW was voting a non existent player scummy?
Two, HOW did this advance the goals of scum?
I realize you're unvoting now but the vote in the first place is bad. Thirdly, do you have absolutely *no* other scum suspects in 5 pages?
Oh, hi HW saying the same thing >=[!
@Serela: What makes you so certain A) The newbie flailing is town, and B) That it's newbie flailing? How can you base a case off of an "easy scum target" when we lack flips thus far?
@Kilga: No, it's more he completely failed to acknowledge the existence of others filling his criteria and failed to provide reasoning for how Serela is distinguished from the rest. And then has failed to explain this thus far, though that could be due to sleep. Still wanted an explanation before laying off him.
All right, next thing I want to do is reread Conquerer to see what the hubbub is all about. Then I'll be placing my vote elsewhere.
-
How can you base a case off of an "easy scum target" when we lack flips thus far?
It wasn't a particularly strong case, as ED1 cases usually are. I am much more comfortable with my Zak vote, because... as I said, he's voting someone whom he doesn't have any reason to believe to be scum, and voting them over things that didn't even happen in the current game. It's jokevote material made as a serious case, and made outside of RVS by a player who is most certainly not new, that is completely absurd.
I'm surprised no one else until UK has so much as commented on Zak's vote at all. Are they distracted by the perfectly good logic provided in the rest of his post?
-
@capt h.: What do you feel the liklihood is of a lynch occuring within the next 4 hours? Next 8? Next 16? Before everyone has chimed in? Secondly, do you think an attitude that "we aren't likely to catch scum D1" helps to catch scum in any way?
Hey capt! You never answered this. Taking the first question off the table. Answer the second one.
@Conquerer 73: Didn't notice this before. Why do you accuse PX of a "nice wagon jump" in what I presume is deadpan "y u do dis?" way, and don't VOTE him when your vote is currently parked on someone you perceive at antitown? I realize this is a past issue but it interests me.
Definitely seeing what Kilga 101 says. Particularly when he *has* named a better target. Yet...doesn't want to vote him because of "prior track record as town?" Yeah. No.
@Conquerer 104: So, to clarify, PX's "nice wagon jump" is not at all suspicious? Then why did you bring it up?
Oh, right, my scum intent on Conquerer. Bah, wish I had taken notes. Anyway, I found it odd Conquerer had *no other suspicions* and wanted to hide behind "WELLP HE'S ANTI TOWN"
@Capt. h. 111: OH wow this was rich. I totally missed this. Calling out lurkers after less than 6 hours of play? WHOOOOOOOOO!
@Conquerer 114: Why Capt. over PX? Particularly when the wagon hop should have been genuinely scummy.
HW is a pretty cool guy, eh, summarizes the case on Conquerer and doesn't afraid of anything.
I'm in full agreement with Post 116. Well, except for the parts that miss capt. h. scumminess.
@Conq 125: Yes, because "nice wagon jump" stated sarcastically is not an opinion at all. The main problem is that you explain *now* why you vote capt. h., but you never have before, just maintaining the vote! Thirdly, that's hilarious that you now call capt. h. *scummier* as opposed to *more anti-town*.
All right, you know what? I'm sold on Conquerer scum.
##Unvote
##Vote Conquerer (L-5, if I can count. Should be the fourth vote on him)
About the only issue I have is how easily the wagon on him formed, but even then it's not going strongly yet.
I'll also note I'm willing to put capt. h. as scum as well. (I kinda reread the whole game)
@Serela cut: I disagree you can use "easy scum target" as D1 reasoning without flips or information. I do find it interesting that no one else commented on Zak's vote.
-
Mmm. I can't blame people for the Conqueror case, it's just that Zak sums up my feelings about it. Replace 'Kilga' with 'Everyone's'
Kilgamayan's case on Conqueror is theoretically sound. However, I don't really feel the way Conqueror is posting to be scumsourced as of yet.
I feel like Zak is trying to make a point with his vote that I'm not getting. Maybe he should let people know the punchline if it bothers them. As for capt.h frankly considering what he said about Schezo before joining the game I'm not surprised he voted like he did.
General note to newer players: Please give comments on at least 2-3 players and lay a vote on who you think sounds worst. At this point everyone should have a vote on whoever you think is scummiest.
PX: ???
-
@Shadoweh: That's about my feelings. The Schezo vote feels like bait for...something.
-
I don't think there is a high likelihood of anyone getting lynched in the next 48 hours, Kitten, let alone the next 24.
Truth be told, the attacks on the non-existant players was just over-excitement, and I wasn't planning to mount a strong attack on any of them until I know which ones aren't here.
##Vote Shadoweh
You have yet to establish a case on PX, yet you are voting for him anyway. In fact, you go through more effort avoiding voting for Conqueror then you do explaining your PX vote. You seem to take the case against PX for granted.
Kilga: Actually, the way you put it right there makes perfect sense. Agree with the no noise policy.
I really want to vote PX for his idiot newbie bandwagon but I think he can't help but look like scum. You should get that checked. In general to everyone, last game was awesome but it isn't the only game in existence and is not the be all and end all of mafia situations. I think I'll make that a real vote for now and evaluate later.
You later go on to explain how PX has no content in two other instances. However, you seem to have a stronger case against Conqueror than PX. I would like to hear your case on PX.
For Shadoweh: Looking back, I actually unvoted because:
Cut by capt. h: So? Pesco scares me regardless of my alignment but I don't constantly push him for lynch. (Although, maybe I should.)
Sorry for the misrep.
-
OK. Capt. H. You see that post you just made? That was a good post
Keep it up.
Small quibble though, where does Shadoweh post a case on Conquerer? Could you link or quote it?
-
EBWOP: But you answered the wrong part of my question, Capt. I was asking about the catching scum D1 thing.
-
This isn't a problem yet but please don't call her Kitten, there are two of them. UK is better.
My case on PX hasn't changed since I voted. This is because as I am subtly pointing out he hasn't said anything else yet. Other people defending him is great but I prefer the person I'm actually voting for give me a reason not to.
I don't have a case on Conqueror. He's posting too much for me to think he's scum. If he's faking interest his undeniable deep red lurker urges will give him away in time.
-
@Shadoweh: Disagree that posting amount determines scuminess. I'm a VERY good example of this. Regardless of alignment, I post LOTS, whenever I can. I've seen other players do the same thing.
-
VOTECOUNT - Groggy Mod Edition
Conqueror (4) - Kilgamayan, huh what, Affinity, UncertainKitten, NeoSerela
Shadoweh (2) - Schezo, capt. h
Zakeri (1) - NeoSerela, Shadoweh
capt. h (1) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
huh what (1) - Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
NeoSerela (1) - Bardiche, Kilgamayan
PX (1) - Shadoweh
Dormio (1) - PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt, Dormio, Kitten4u
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch.
-
EBWOP: But you answered the wrong part of my question, Capt. I was asking about the catching scum D1 thing.
Yes my attitude was unhelpful earlier day 1. I said we were unlikely to catch scum day 1 because we are unlikely to catch scum day 1. It's right in the How to play Mafia Flash tutorial right here: http://www.sitesled.com/members/mikeburnfire/mafiascum04.swf
Now, these are Shadoweh's mentions on Conqueror:
Conqueror: Are you going to come back to what you think on Bard later? :V
Are we reading the same game here? PX has posted one blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target. Considering you're calling Conqueror out for not targetting anyone else in one sentence and acknowledging he's looked at two other players in another, this is suspicious. If you misread it PX didn't ask any questions to 'Schezo and co.' and said he would 'get on to other people.'You've said some version of 'I will look tomorrow' four times now. Are you doing this on purpose?
PX: ???
Mmm. I can't blame people for the Conqueror case, it's just that Zak sums up my feelings about it.
Kilgamayan's case on Conqueror is theoretically sound. However, I don't really feel the way Conqueror is posting to be scumsourced as of yet.
That was the entrety of Zak's case for Conqueror.
This isn't a problem yet but please don't call her Kitten, there are two of them. UK is better.
My case on PX hasn't changed since I voted. This is because as I am subtly pointing out he hasn't said anything else yet. Other people defending him is great but I prefer the person I'm actually voting for give me a reason not to.
I don't have a case on Conqueror. He's posting too much for me to think he's scum. If he's faking interest his undeniable deep red lurker urges will give him away in time.
You basically don't seem to have a case on anyone, and seem to be ignoring Huh What's case against Conqueror. And the reason you don't vote Conqueror is because of Zak's feelings, which is that the case is sound, but it doesn't feel scummy enough yet.
It's not that you have a case on PX or Conqueror that bothers me. It's that you have no case on PX, and are actively ignoring the case on Conqueror in favor of a vote on someone for which you have no case.
-
@Capt. H.: Wow, that is completely terrible. While it's TRUE, it's still not helpful to point out. And to be honest, I think "unlikely to lynch scum D1" is an overused and inflated meme. With proper scumhunting, I feel a better D1 scum lynch rate can be achieved. Of course, with people like you saying it's impossible, of COURSE it won't happen.
-
So, what, I return to see that people diagnose my case is shoddy (no, seriously, people?), and UK clinging on to her vote on me for nearly eternity when 1) Kilga had already explained that prodding was useless as I was, indeed, asleep and 2) such a whirlwind of things happened and the best thing she can find is a vote on me for NOT flailing and accusing everyone of being useless?
Sorry, everyone's RVS posts are useless and I'd vote every single one of you, but until a bastard mod passes me the multiple votes role, I'm afraid I just can't do that.
As for why Serela and not X, at the time I started writing my post, Serela was the one posting directly before me. Now that I've elucidated this important point I am curious what UK hoped to accomplish by parking her vote on me when other things surfaced and a prod vote was clearly not going to be of use?
The scuffle with capt h is not really that fascinating to vote for. He's derp and engages in the traditional MotK "Let's sit back and see what happens" playstyle which we see so often in our D1's. Being lost early D1 is nothing new for newcomers, so I'm not inclined to vote him for it.
Not sure how I feel about Zakeri being scummy. He's an experienced player so obviously he knows that his case is shit and that people're going to slam him for it, so why make it at all? To declare it SCUMMIEST THING AROUND!! and immediately vote it without considering the implications feels lazy, and so I would like NeoSerela to recap why Zakeri's movement is more scummy than incrediderp.
Zakeri may come in and explain why he made that case, I can't imagine he thought we'd all jump on board and saunter off into a schezo-lynching sunset with that kind of case.
UK finds it interesting people didn't mention Zakeri. Does interesting equal scummy?
Huh What, why did you need to have a major epiphany before you concluded that your vote on me was, in fact, absolute crud?
There's just so many people I want to vote for, but I still have only one vote (and no six hammer votes to crumble either :() so I'm going to go with the one who I find most egregious. ##UNVOTE
##VOTE: UncertainKitten
You mention that you worry how easily the wagon on Conq was made. I take this as a worry that there may be scum intent founded in voting him. Yet you seem to agree he is the scummiest person around.
Why make this mention at all? Shouldn't it be a good thing lots of people pile on the person who looks scummiest to you?
This mystery, along with the dogged idea that voting me until page 6 was going to yield a groundbreaking revelation, as well as a plethora of friendly conversation that sadly has no real bearance on the here and now of the game raise you to my utmost scum state. It's this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581710.html#msg581710) that's funny, because you're saying there's enough to work with to make cases, and yet you have made no effort to do so yet other than prodding and prying. :(
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581686.html#msg581686) feels like a cheerlead. Conqueror and capt H are scummy, but I'm not going to pursue it, is how I read that.
-
Not sure how I feel about Zakeri being scummy. He's an experienced player so obviously he knows that his case is shit and that people're going to slam him for it, so why make it at all? To declare it SCUMMIEST THING AROUND!! and immediately vote it without considering the implications feels lazy, and so I would like NeoSerela to recap why Zakeri's movement is more scummy than incrediderp.
I... don't know? ???
...I guess he either thought it wasn't horrible or he's doing some gambit thing? But townie gambits generally are not good things to do. And I'd hope if he was town he'd know better then to think it wasn't bad. I guess it just seems more likely that he's scum and thought it was okay for some reason (maybe sleep deprived or lazy, but the latter is usually -me-) or is doing a gambity thing. If it's not either of those two things, it really just comes down to "Why make it at all?" like you said, and... that doesn't make any sense.
Incrediderp or gambit just doesn't seem like something that would come from Zak!town, or in general any reasonably sound-minded town player who doesn't have a role that warrants said gambit. And I'm not going to go around guessing that Zak has some role that gives him information on the first one to vote him.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
capt. H:Yes, it is unlikely to catch scum on D1, but you should still be at least trying to do so. Unlikely is not impossible, and not trying is anti-town. On a decent enough amount of the time I have seen scum lynched D1. Even if we don't catch scum, people genuinely trying to do so should help result in better information on later analysis-es of D1.
UK finds it interesting people didn't mention Zakeri. Does interesting equal scummy?
I wouldn't say it's scummy, but it's rather strange. Wouldn't you think it's odd if you pulled some lulzybad case out of the air and voted on it, and everyone completely ignored it? It's not scummy because it's the other people doing so, not Zakeri himself, it just kind of... baffles me.
-
Heading out for a few hours. Expect to discuss more than just this when I get home.
Serela: Does Incrediderp or gambit seem like something that would come from ScumZak? If so, why would it come from ScumZak and not TownZak?
-
capt.h: The odds are against catching scum Day 1, but it does happen and has happened in the past. The thing about MotK's terribad hatred of newbie play is eventually one of the really does pull scum.
I'm extremely confused on what you think is a case against Conqueror. The posts of mine you've brought up clearly show I don't have a case on him and mention that I think PX is much worse right now. After questioning Affinity and reading over people's arguments with Conqueror I've decided their reasons for their cases don't ring as scummy. I simply disagree with them so far. Bad Posting Style does not equal Scum Posting Style.
You actually quoted my case against PX. "One blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target." After Post #135 I can add "Useless clarification of something that doesn't matter without answering any questions, addressing the rest of the game or being useful." Is that clearer?
I'm actually blatantly ignoring huh what until he reads over me and tells me why I'm so underwhelming because I'd really like to hear it from him.
-
UK: I'm not saying everyone that posts alot is Town, but the LAL is strong in this one.
Oh, before I forget again, capt.h are you going to answer my question? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581705.html#msg581705)
-
Mm, prior experience? Admittedly, I'm not too hot on meta...
-
Comparing GDC, in which he posted more and was put on the Day 1 Bus, to MRM in which he lurkscummed his way to Day 4, yes. Opinions may change depending on how he defends himself and the same goes to PX.
-
Currently catching up, but wanted to address this first:
Also you do realize you are criticizing the first "legitimate" ED1 case as "forced" and "bad", right? Every such case ever has been that way, short of a scum VI claiming scum. :C
I don't really know what to say to this other than that me misreading the circumstances of Bard's case (and the post in general) made me have higher expectations for it. I already realized this, hence why my vote is not on him anymore.
-
6 pages? *cries in a corner*
Ok let's see here on some opinions.
capt. h-
Reads heavily as DERRRRRRP to me. Little conviction in his votes. I'm writing him off as an overeager town trying to contribute for the time being. A decent re-read will be in order later.
PX-
Literally jumps on wagon with, "I agree." Follows up with some newb grilling.
I see this whole thing as easy target, going after the fruit on the low branches. And I'm also suspicious of the people who write him off as "That's just him." Other opinions than the newbie?
Conqueror-
Argh. Even after re-read, I am not sure where he stands on who's scum or not and why. Can you restate them for me? Pretty much everything else on him has been said already.
Colt-
Wat? You wanna play the game?
And my last point here, Zak
Hi there. He pops in to say why voting newbies is bad, and then points outs to UK that she is wrong in voting capt. h, when she isn't even voting him. And then he goes and throws a vote on Schezo because he played scummy last game in retrospect. What? How are you helping town by doing that. RVS is over and doing that cannot be considered hunting in the slightest.
##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri
In summation, he has almost no opinions and is using his vote as a toy with no decent reasoning on someone who hadn't even checked in. Zak ducks out and hasn't followed up, leaving town to loldebateclub. Can I get some actual opinions on people who are scummy?
-
UK: I'm not saying everyone that posts alot is Town, but the LAL is strong in this one.
Oh, before I forget again, capt.h are you going to answer my question? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581705.html#msg581705)
Your question was:
Do you know what alignment I am?
The answer is no, no I don't.
-
I've been having the same feeling as Shadoweh and UK about Zak's vote, and I honestly have to say it kind of bugs me. Making a vote only to make a point does is not actually helping us catch scum, so if his vote is intended as bait then it had better be for really good reasons. I wouldn't be interested in voting him, though, as I personally feel scum would not use a gambit clearly made to draw attention to themself.
...Although, while I'm at it. His claim that he can not see scum!Conq is a little vague. Zakeri, why do you not feel Conqueror's posting is scumsourced?
As for the people voting Zakeri, Hourai suddenly jumping on the Zak wagon looks bad to me. I've already stated why I don't think Zak's votegambit is scummy in this particular scenario, and Zak did give more opinions than his Schezo vote. It should also be noted that his case on me disappeared completely with no explanation. I'm willing to give Serela a bit more grace in this area because he was the first to vote and did not completely drop any past opinions when voteswitching. Everything else out of Hourai seems like parroting to me.
... In fact, I think I'd be willing to see him hang (derp) for this. Still not the biggest Conq fan at all, but I can't have my vote in two places and Hourai making a post with absolutely nothing new before jumping on a particularly shaky wagon while also dropping his past convictions looks downright awful to me. Does he really not have anything original to contribute?
##Unvote
##Vote Hanged Hourai
This might just be an immediate reaction since he made his post while I was still rereading, but I personally think he looks pretty scummy.
Other stuff:
I like capt. h's points on Shadoweh and still need to re-read her to see if I agree with them. :effort:
The high concentrations of meta are pretty silly, and I do not agree that they apply to the Conqueror case. He was majorly grilled for being lurkscum last game, so it's not impossible that he could just be scum trying to change the way he plays. I don't really know, but I don't think it's a reason to discount him a potential scum.
I'm actually blatantly ignoring huh what until he reads over me and tells me why I'm so underwhelming because I'd really like to hear it from him.
I forgot you were playing until recently, and that's typically indicative of low presence which is not good. But I can be rather inattentive at times (see: the entire first half of my play so far), so it might just be the result of derp. I intend to re-read you after this post.
Huh What, why did you need to have a major epiphany before you concluded that your vote on me was, in fact, absolute crud?
I still really can't defend against this beyond "I was confused/wrong/derp/whatever and made a mistake". Most of my early holding on was in hopes that it would count as pressure but I guess that was made void by timezones. :x
As is, I don't really have anything against you, though I personally do not agree with your UK vote. I'll let her defend herself.
-
Ah, the reason I dropped my previous vote on you was because you were voting Bard for trying to take us out of RVS, but with your new claim of accidentally misrepping him, it becomes very poor. And besides, I see scummier cases right now.
Original content? Let me wade through 6 pages and get back to you soon. Trying to get opinions out so we know where I stand.
-
Hur, being new and all, I lack confidence in my reasoning, which is why I prefer to wait until I see notable points to bring up. (none yet, everything up to now seems to be mainly composed of lashing at each other, is that normal here?)
To start off, what Zakeri said basically explains the situation. The whole newbie punishing things and all is what stuns me to speak up now, and I once again simply just require more information. Furthermore trying to figure out Zakeri's side just from experience from past games is also something that saddens me because there is nothing I can say about that.
Kitten4u has still yet to speak, and I want to see what he has to say both for himself and towards the current situation.
Votes seem to be heavy on Conqueror now but he hasn't woken up yet and I want to see what he says in response. The stuff brought up against conqueror both by Kilga and Affinity seem to be the most sound to me so far so I'm leaning towards voting him. (Then again, want to see what he says before I vote)
Even Bardiche is indecisive on who to vote!
-
Okay, with Iku out of the way for the evening, let's see if I can regather my thoughts here.
Reading Bard's case on UK looks fairly sound to me as far as D1 cases go, though it doesn't outweigh my feelings on the Conqueror case, who went from no apparent reason for his vote to needing multiple people asking him before producing a rather lackluster reason, one that could have been easily provided the first time I asked him. The delay there smacks of being something he had to make up in the face of dogged pursuit rather than what he actually feels.
Also worth noting is that one of the parts of UK case I buy into more - the pestering of an absent person - is also somewhat true of Shadoweh in regards to PX. That being said, capt. h's case on Shadoweh is not one I buy into, given I think Shadoweh's reasons are fairly obvious. There is something I would like Shadoweh to update, however:
I really want to vote PX for his idiot newbie bandwagon but I think he can't help but look like scum. You should get that checked. ... I think I'll make that a real vote for now and evaluate later.
How true does this whole sentiment still hold?
Uninterested in a Zakeri case, "weird" is not a valid reason to vote for someone imo and I can speculate a few reasons why TownZak might have done what he did (not that I will be providing them since they're Zakeri's countercase to make and I feel the reasons are far less readily available than reasons for Bard's Serela choice). Opinion of Serela is not improving. Opinion of Zakeri will, of course, drop considerably should he attempt to ride this out through the rest of the day, but I expect that will not happen.
I'm getting a sense that capt. h is more overeager than anything else. Not seeing much in the way of scumness there as a result. Currently uninterested in voting this way.
Colt: Votes are retractable! I would like to see a vote backed by opinions from you, instead of a journalistic account of events and things like "I want to wait and see before I vote for X". This is passive scumhunting, which is far less desirable than active scumhunting. Put the pressure on now, and if he happens to have a satisfactory defense later, there's no stopping you from parking your vote on someone else.
-
The main thing about capt. h.'s Shadoweh case is it actually shows original thought and genuine trying, something that he had been lacking thus far. It had a few errors, but it still was a town motivated case. That's why I called it a good post.
To clarify, I've not found any real reason to suspect Shadoweh, but I also note that there have been more...glaring people that might be obfuscating my read.
And, yeah, Colt is not really making me happy, thus far. Still happy with Conquerer.
-
I really want to vote PX for his idiot newbie bandwagon but I think he can't help but look like scum. You should get that checked. In general to everyone, last game was awesome but it isn't the only game in existence and is not the be all and end all of mafia situations. I think I'll make that a real vote for now and evaluate later.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
Jumping straight to me without mentioning anybody else. Also, you're just parking a vote so you can come up with a reason later?
Shadow's 96 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581663.html#msg581663)
What do you think about Bard then?
Everything Zak said about punishing newbies is true. I would also put Conqueror in the same easy town lynch category as capt.h . I don't know if Colt is new but his post is asking for it. I would like a better reason to vote for these three then 'their posts sound bad.' Note that I'm not voting him for time traveling powers, it was just weird enough to point out. I still expect a post from him on the matter.
Cut by.. Schezo. I'm not sure what you're getting at. PX has no content at all. Conqueror has more content right now at a glance by virtue of actually arguing his case with other people. No matter how scummy I think Conqueror is or isn't PX would rank on the bottom by default and I don't understand how there's a comparison. This applies to what I think of Affinity's post as well. You're also weirdly quoting my posts in ways that ignore the other people I was talking to in them. And.. I wasn't asking Conqueror to elaborate. I was joking that he sounded like his scum self.
Sorry I can't like, attack the entire game this time. Bard cut me by a few hours for mad anti-RVS shenanigans.
So.... You're essentially defending Conquerer and going straight after me with personal bias JUST because I have played more games than them. So you're cool with newb!scum getting through the game with a free pass because they're new?
To be fair to Conqueror, the scum in the other game accidentally said there were three scum. After a reread to confirm, I haven't seen anything in his posts yet that would make me suspect him. Conversely PX doesn't seem to feel the need to defend himself yet or comment on, say, not capt.h so I'm more comfortable with disagreeing on that point. \
Edit: Hi Colt if you could like exist and tell us what you think of people that would be great. Did you know capt.h isn't the only player in the game?
Defend myself? So you want me to defend myself from... nobody? Please, if you got anything on what I said, then make clearly state it.
Also, that "question" you wanted h. capt to answer so badly is absolutely stupid, pointless, and retarded. Do you REALLY think that would help ANYBODY at all?
Bardiche: Love his post
Zakeri's post I express the same feeling, but his Schezo vote baffles me.
h. capt: Huh... his case on Shadoweh makes sense.
Anyways, I was going to say something on the Conquerer wagon, but I accidently deleted that chunk of my post.... Orz, now I know how others feel when they do that... I'll just go post this now. Oh, before I forget
##Unvote
The accidently deleting has taken out a lot of desire for me to post right now
Fakeedit:NINJAS
-
Ah, Kilga's latest post. Essentially, Shadoweh says my post was absolutely nothing.
-
Kitten4u has made no posts beyond the confirmation phase.
Perhaps he (she?) hasn't been at the computer since we began, but we are very near the 24 hour marker, at which players get prodded if they fail to post. And I'd like to hear from Kitten4u soon.
-
@PX: Which post? Also, who posted 143? You kinda forget to quote a name there.
-
UK: Right, which is why I'm willing to label him overeager. The case does decently well as a reflection on him. As a case, though, it's, well, less impressive.
Cut by PX: Let's please not use such strong language, okay? I understand you may be upset, but we should still keep things civil.
-
@Kilga: Yeah. I probably should have said that at the time.
-
h. capt: Pesco is known to lurk no matter what on day 1. Just ignore it until day 2.
-
Post 143 is Shadoweh's, I was still talking about her
-
Did you mean Pesco or K4U?
K4U is a girl, by the way, capt. h.
@PX: Thank you for the clarification, now if you could kindly answer all the questions.
-
Questions? Sorry if I couldn't see them, but could you reiterate?
-
Sorry for the language, but deleting a big chunk of a post that I was working on for the whole day, including reading the topic multiple times, kind of got rid of my motivation to play
-
Ah, Kilga's latest post. Essentially, Shadoweh says my post was absolutely nothing.
@PX: Which post?
-
Oh, I was answering when Kilga asked Shadoweh how her sentiment still held.
-
Uh...what? You still aren't making sense. You say "Shadoweh says my post was absolutely nothing". I reply "Which post?"
I'm not sure what you misunderstand about this.
-
Or we could just pretend there's no vote on ourselves, of course. You wait nearly the entire game thusfar for me to clarify something, and then you don't even acknowledge it?
Colt, I am very decisive in who I want to vote, I just want to vote multiple people. Please try not to use an abstraction as some sort of defence not to vote anyone.
-
@Bard: Frankly, it wasn't worth the time and effort to respond to.
-
This one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581681.html#msg581681)
Essentially, Shadoweh's entire case on me is
One blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target.
and
PX has no content at all.
-
Well it doesn't say a whole lot, to be fair. And those are kinda scummy things she's accusing you of. Not to mention I don't think you actually followed up with "will look at other people."
-
VOTECOUNT - 24 hours in Edition
Conqueror (3) - Kilgamayan, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Zakeri (2) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (2) - Schezo, capt. h
Hanged Hourai (1) - huh what
UncertainKitten (1) - Bardiche
capt. h (1) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
PX (1) - Shadoweh
Dormio (0) - PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
huh what (0) - Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
NeoSerela (0) - Bardiche, Kilgamayan
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt, Dormio, Kitten4u, PX
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. 48 hours remain in the day. Kitten4u has been prodded.
-
Kilga: Update on PX? Well now that he's posted again I can check if my case, which was summerized in Post #167, still holds.
PX: I had a weak reason from the moment you posted that just grew more comfortable the more you posted. You've just made yourself so comfortable! Bard has come back and posted a decent contribution. I'm not sure how much clearer 'I think PX is more scummy then Conqueror' has to be. Because you sound more like scum. You could both be scum. But you, at this moment, I would believe in more. If I said you could go in the same easy lynch category despite having played more games would you be insulted?
It's weird that you sound like you don't understand my case against you because you clearly understand what I'm attacking you for. Guess what, my case is still that your post has no content at all. Please retype your post with opinions on other people as soon as possible. Preferrably with a vote on another player because you should be above hovering.
Honestly? I was hoping capt.h would say yes. It would have made Day 1 really easy.
-
(regarding Shadoweh's Post #90)
Jumping straight to me without mentioning anybody else. Also, you're just parking a vote so you can come up with a reason later?
Oh and I forgot blatant fricking misrepresentation since I mention Kilgamayan in that post and had been arguing with him for two prior posts. Maybe you should have like, read all my posts instead of just the ones with your name in them.
-
2 pages seem to appear every time I make a post.
Unfortunately for the next few days my internet at home is capped and is prone to disconnecting.
And so many posts.
Anyway.
All that meta talk makes reading this a total headache.
You people should focus on what's happening now, not what happened in the past.
Considering how, you know, people are constantly changing.
Making this post as I read through the topic again.
Kitten4u: ???
capt. h: Other people have said this, but deciding to ignore D1 is not a good idea.
Also, stop relying on meta so much. :/
Shadoweh: Why so adamant on defending K4u?
"She's my idol" isn't a really good reason to defend someone, especially in a game like mafia where you can't trust anyone.
PX: With regards to your vote on capt. h, can't you at least say which parts of the aforementioned reasons you agree with?
Fortunately, you did expand on this later.
Conqueror/PX isn't really looking that bad to me right now.
Of course, this may change in the future upon another reread.
Neoserela: What UK said. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581657.html#msg581657)
And why Conqueror? Why not PX or Hourai?
capt. h: Using sarcasm makes your scum meter go up?
UK: Er, capt. h said his case on Neoserala was that Neoserela used sarcasm.
Page 6: ARGH MORE WORDS.
Colt: Doesn't really exist until now where he posts a limited recap on a few events.
PX: Er, defend yourself from the stuff that happened earlier where you pretty much voted capt. h for the reason "What they said."
Stupid uni library.
Why does everyone need to use the wireless from here, making the internet ridiculously slow?
-
Er, what are you responding to with your comment to me about capt. h?
-
I'm willing to get back to Zakeri later, but this is more interesting as of late.
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
So far, your game has been throwaway one-liners and now with your opinions on people, you still don't have a vote to back up any of your words. You've made 2 non-RVS posts, but there is almost no conviction in any of it. Who is scum?
And also, you tell PX to defend himself from what people are saying rather than promoting hunting. This seems rather strange to me.
-
Er, what are you responding to with your comment to me about capt. h?
That is about the most amazingly contradictory post ever, capt. h.
And if not contradictory, at the least waffly. You basically spend a paragraph saying "Well, I have a case on Serela and I'm not voting because it's not good enough, but then again it's D1 and you usually don't have good D1 cases, so maybe I should vote Serela, but I'm not actually going to because talking about it will make people think I'm being a ProActive Townie (tm)"
I hate library wireless.
Looking for the post took 5 minutes because stuff won't load.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
And then cut.
Hourai: No, I was just trying to point out that he didn't have nothing to defend himself from.
Er, that could be worded better.
Let's try again.
Basically, when PX said that he has nothing to defend himself from, I was just pointing the earlier event with the lazy vote on capt. h.
-
@Dormio: Your point is kind of irrelevant to that post. My point was not that he "didn't have a case on Serela" (not that he really did, it was kind of terrible), but at the fact he was so hedgy and generally not committing to anything, leaving his options open.
-
@Dormio
That's cool. Now who is scum? You are being fence-sittingy without a vote on anyone to back up your words.
And grah! Time for bed!
-
Hmm, k.
Anyway.
I need to read further into Bard/HW/Kilgamayan.
Also, isn't it sad when the net at the uni library is better than the net at home?
At least the library net doesn't d/c me whenever it feels like it.
Can't wait until the 23rd when usage resets.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Screw you Hourai, why must you cut me.
Cut yourself, you emo.
Anyway.
Going to reread one more time before I put down a vote.
Hopefully I'll be able to do this before my next lecture starts.
If I can't, well, at least I'll be home in a bit over 3 hours.
-
Huh, I thought my second post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581681.html#msg581681) was an expansion to my vote on capt. h?
Anyways, what can I say? Calling him for claiming that there are 4 scum in this game seemed like a good reason to vote at the time.
-
Er, I should have reworded that as "Couldn't you have at least posted which reasons you agreed with?"
Regardless, I said that you expanded on it later.
I don't think I'm going to be able to finish this reread/post before my lecture starts. :/
Let's hope that I don't get trolled by the net at home when I get back.
-
@UK 151 Hmm, maybe misrep is the wrong word but it felt like Shadoweh was trying to take what Affinity said and twist it so it would hit more on PX like she wants instead of Conqueror when Affinity is showing more towards PX than Conqueror. Conq. arguing his case that's horrible is the same as not getting town anywhere. Yet Shadoweh wants to say that Conqueror is doing something by doing that when PX wasn't, even though he did do something, tunnel and ask some questions and being a bit more active in his case making. The motive behind this may be because she wants to try and take a stab at Affinity later for making up some bogus case to get stuff rolling on him and then go from there.
When asked why Conq is better than PX, she gives a goofy "Conqueror is posting (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581872.html#msg581872)" response with makes no sense whatsoever when PX may not have had as much an opportunity to post and gets the shaft for it.
Her posts since then haven't been redeeming either. After it gets explained that it's a moot point to talk about people who haven't got here yet (Bard, PX) and why she doesn't vote Conqueror, she wants to make her PX case what it was earlier. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582017.html#msg582017) Which is what exactly? That he looks scum for easy targeting a newbie? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581651.html#msg581651) Great, except the only mention of Conqueror you made was earlier here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581684.html#msg581684). I find this odd because he was obviously a talking point, and only gets mentioned again in her defense of him (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581799.html#msg581799) in which he is cleared and everything for posting more. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581872.html#msg581872) No? She wants to justify it with LAL (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582117.html#msg582117) which hasn't even gotten to a legitimate point of the game to even use when Kitten4U has yet to make an appearance and I don't see anything about her. Then pressing silly questions to give Capt. H a harder time is not helping when she's just sitting back saying she'll wait for responses to respond to is not good townie intent.
Then we get to when PX posts, which I though was pretty good, brought out some good points on some of the silliness Shadoweh is harping on and makes an attempt to clear it up. But no wait, she brings out, "you sound more like scum." Really? What does that mean? And what evidence do you want to point out because just taking everything PX said and going, "you sound more like scum." does not make me want to lynch him. But saying in you 198 that your 167 case still holds is obviously not a good one anymore because PX posted and addressed stuff like your case claims he did not. I would appreciate an actual rehash of your entire case on PX with examples instead of going on with whatever strangeness you have in your latest posts. Vote stays
Dormio is unimpressive. After all his throwaway comments which do nothing to help the game in it's current state, he has nothing to say aside from a few goofy questions that appear to seem like he's kinda trying but I would like a little more analyzing of people and opinions from him.
Hourai does pretty much what Dormio did and promises some original content later...
Neither of the two of them have hardly any conviction at all about them and it's starting to worry me.
Bardiche makes a good post on his reappearance which I agree with.
Colt... It would be nice if you could do some scum hunting instead of playing news reporter.
Well, that's all the time I have to make a post I still have a few things to go over maybe in the morning.
-
This is a place holder post. I feel like I got hit by a bus or something, so there's no way I'm going to be able to say anything meaningful tonight.
So I'm just going to confirm this real quick: yes, Pesco and I are following the Serp game tradition of hydraing together. I was going to be the dominant head this game, but uh...if I feel like this in the morning I'll ask him to swap with me.
-
]Shadoweh: Why so adamant on defending K4u?
"She's my idol" isn't a really good reason to defend someone, especially in a game like mafia where you can't trust anyone.
Shouldn't you be asking why I'm defending Conqueror since I've mentioned him about 500% more then K4U? If this was still RVS I'd answer you. You need to post something that isn't questions about the silly meta that you don't want people to use, with a vote in it.
Schezo: Maybe misrep is the wrong word but it feels like you're taking a post in which I ask Affinity a clear question so I can understand why he thinks his case is better then mine and turning it into me having SUPER SECRET MOTIVES. Spoiler Alert, that's exactly why I'm questioning people on the motives for their cases. Extra Spoiler Alert, there is more then 1 scum and there's a good chance neither PX or Conqueror are one of them! If they both end up flipping town having the motives of everyone that made cases on them is useful to me. If they both end up flipping scum it's just as useful.
It's like you're reading my posts through Google Translator. If I had an unlimited dayvig I would shoot you and PX in the face right now. My case is PX's posts suck and he hasn't actually looked at someone but his newbie target. Guess what, I think his last post sucked and didn't really address anyone but his newbie target. His comments on other people, which are "Love Bard's post, Zak is like doing stuff and capt.h's case makes sense" are complete throwaways.
I am going to ask you a serious question. What do you think of Kilgamayan, UncertainKitten, Affinity, and huh what?
-
Sorry, don't have the time or energy for that massive post I promised earlier. Bulk of my cases plus defence post will come tomorrow as today I just don't have the willpower and writing up a defence makes me cranky (and I need to sleep anyways).
Some quick comments:
I'm a bit confused by Zakeri and Shadoweh. I would like clarification on what exactly is "scumsourced" behavior, as it seems a rather arbitrary distinction to make. Especially since you both seem to agree with the bulk of the cases against me, or so you say. Anyway, I have no idea what Zakeri was trying to do with his jokevote. And to Shadoweh, what about not-me and not-PX? Here, I'll ask you your question: "What do you think of Kilgamayan, UncertainKitten, Affinity, and huh what?"
Capt. h's sudden change in behavior (a.k.a. actually having a case to make, and making it with gusto as opposed to breakfast material) is a bit jarring, but not unwelcome. I'll have to rereview him in light of this later.
Dormio: I don't understand your latest posts. You didn't even vote anyone, and it's hard to glean any points or stances from your words. Your presence in this game is absolutely negligable.
Hourai is a little jumpy with the votes. I don't find that immediately scummy for now, but it does feel like he is picking easy places to park his votes.
The way UK refuses to answer any of Bard's points is frownyface, but I can't really say anything about that. Here's a question for UK: You say you're "sold on Conquerer scum" in #153, but I'm still not completely sure what your reasons are. Could you elaborate in a separate post?
Affinity, what do you think about other people? It's nice that you think I'm scum, but you've presented no other real avenues aside from that.
Colt needs to get an opinion on the table. Vote someone, I don't care if it's me. You need to say something.
None of NeoSerela's votes thus far are very strong. His vote on Bard was not serious (as he stated himself), his vote on me was because I voted the nibby (his case having nothing to do with the cases that came afterwards), and when Affinity called him out for it, he unvotes me and switches to Zak for...I'm not sure why, actually. His clarification in post #165 boils down...nothing much, as far as I can tell. Because Zak has his heads in the clouds, I suppose. Okay, NeoSerela, you say we have information to analyze right now. How about some analysis of the other players from your end? I don't want to hear about Zak, we can't psychoanalyze him based on his one stupid post.
PX is what. I almost thought you were voting Shadoweh based on your recent posts, but you're not voting anyone. Or was that entire series of posts just a defence of yourself without any scumhunting intent?
##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela
Switching vote for now as I need to re-review capt. h, and NeoSerela actions are currently bothering me more than capt. h's initial evasiveness and pancakes.
-
Looks like Kitten4u is going for a free pass on D1 by not existing. :/
And I want to vote for Pesco/Kitten4u because fuck you Pesco, messing with my settings like that.
(Mafia is over 40 pages? What the hel- Oh fuck you Pescar.)
Also, walking around in the rain has given me a headache.
Anyway.
I really don't like how Kilgamayan's first two votes, both of which occurred when RVS was pretty much over, were both basically jumping onto people who already had multiple votes on them with no reasoning given other than "the other guy looks uninteresting".
And then Shadoweh asks him about this, receives the answer "if it's boring, it's boring" and is Shadoweh fine with that answer.
Also, Shadoweh decides to ignore Conqueror based purely on the fact that "he's posting too much".
Shadoweh also mentions K4u once, saying that if you policy lynch her, she will avenge her. K4u is never mentioned again.
##Vote Shadoweh
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
My head aches a lot.
And I need to eat and stuff.
I'll refine this later.
-
Scumsourced, behaviour that feels as if the source of it is scum. Zak might have a different explanation.
Kilgamayan: Fairly open book motives. Probably the only person who managed to question my PX case that wasn't in the form of 'So Conqueror vs PX?'
UncertainKitten: Seems to agree with my feelings on PX? After her conversation with PX and now that both PX and Conqueror have posted a bigger post I would like to hear, seperately, if she believes PX is a valid case, if Conqueror is active lurking scum, and which craftier players she would suspect right now.
Affinity: Answered my questions with linked posts without misrepresenting them. Would like to hear opinions on other players as well.
huh what: Still waiting for that re-read. Put some :effort: into it. Possibly a zombie.
Edit for Dormio: Are you voting me because you want to vote for Kitten4u but you think I'd come after you? That's so stupid, I don't even know. Make a real case on her and I will not care.
-
Maybe it's just because I'm tired, but that seems like more an explanation of your interactions in them and less your opinions on them.
-
*interactions with them. Oops.
-
If you really want that much of a straight answer:
Kilgamayan: Human.
UncertainKitten: Possibly a zombie in human skin.
Affinity: Human.
huh what: Zombie.
-
Oh right, zombies, hmm. Also, another clarification.
Scumsourced, behaviour that feels as if the source of it is scum.
??? That's essentially the definition. I was hoping for more what you think those behaviours might be.
-
Shadoweh:
No, I'd vote for K4u if I had a case on K4u.
Unfortunately, the only thing K4u has said is "bbl" and it's only D1 so yeah.
I'm just annoyed because Pesco messed around with my forum settings.
I'm voting for you because I don't like your behaviours.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Eh, not in the best mental state right now.
-
Also, I like how you ignore everything and go straight for the K4u point.
-
It was a pretty stupid point, so it stood out.
That's not what Kilga answered me with. Do you think Kilga is likely to be a zombie?
I am ignoring Conqueror because My Gut Does Not Think He Is Scum. (TM) Also because four people jumped on him pretty fast and the possibility one of them is scum trying to start a newbtown wagon is worth looking into.
-
Dormio: I don't understand your latest posts. You didn't even vote anyone, and it's hard to glean any points or stances from your words. Your presence in this game is absolutely negligable.
I said I wanted to reread one more time. D:
I still need to reread more.
Because I keep missing stuff because lolheadache.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
It was a pretty stupid point, so it stood out.
So does that mean that you ignore everything else?
That's not what Kilga answered me with.
Shadoweh: My stated reason to not vote for him is because the stated reasons to vote for him are uninteresting. If reasons to vote for someone do not appeal to me then I'm not going to vote for them. I'm not sure how "unclear" that really is.
The condensed version of Kilgamayan's answer sounds like "if it's boring, it's boring" to me.
Do you think Kilga is likely to be a zombie?
I didn't particular like what I read from Kilgamayan and need to look over him in more detail on rereads.
-
I am ignoring Conqueror because My Gut Does Not Think He Is Scum. (TM) Also because four people jumped on him pretty fast and the possibility one of them is scum trying to start a newbtown wagon is worth looking into.
"Posts a lot" and "my gut says no", great reasoning there.
I will admit that the second part of that is better but that's still no reason to give someone a clear on D1.
-
You will have to ask Kilga what he meant. My interpretation was that he wasn't interested in voting for Bard just for making an RVS-Ending stupid case because it was an RVS-Ending stupid case.
I'm not asking you to believe my gut. Make your own decision about it. Conqueror is not my case and I'm getting annoyed at people coming after me for not fighting against him instead of putting more effort into doing it themselves.
-
Urgh, re-read will have to come tomorrow. Been doing things today, though I have at least been trying to pay attention to the thread on-and-off.
Shadoweh, why do you think I am scum beyond how I've found you forgettable?
-
Kilgamayan: Let me rephrase my earlier question, what made me and Neoserela "interesting" wagons to hop onto?
Shadoweh: I am not asking you to make a case against Conqueror.
What I'm not liking is your reasoning for ignoring Conqueror.
Basing a clear off "he posts a lot" and "my gut says so" is terrible.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:/
Also, yeah, why did huh what jump from "Possibly a zombie" to "Zombie"?
-
While I'm at it, why did you bold the words "an actual scum" when quoting my ED1 post?
-
Also, since you don't think my point on bandwagoning is important, allow me to elaborate.
A town Day 1 wagon is more likely to form then a scum Day 1 wagon because there are 3-4 people who are looking for seemingly legitimate reasons to jump on or start a wagon that is not them. This combined with how I feel about the posts plus how my vote on PX is lonely makes me more suspicious of one then the other. For the record I agree with people that he could have just learned from his mistake last game but I haven't seen any proof of that yet. Stop confusing my belief in probability for a 100% clear.
huh what: The bolded words were a typo while quoting. I think you're likely to be a zombie because you were cheerleading Schezo and have yet to actually get around to that content you keep promising. The words 'I will look into that later' have a negative meaning to me that you should understand.
-
Well, it's not like this game is particularly fun to re-read. <_<
I'm working on it right now but won't be able to finish it until the morning.
-
Alternately, I could just post what I have on Shadoweh right now and do the rest later. That works too.
First of all, I'm confused why she was trying to crumb something bad about Bard despite defending him in the exact same post. <_< Okay, I guess that was an error, nevermind. Aside from that, I don't think she handled her PX vote very well. The vote itself has lacked backbone to it since PX's return as far as I can tell, and there is a noted lack of contribution after she places it (hence why I've been finding her underwhelming) and it seems like she's coasting by without any other true stances until Schezo adds on the pressure to her. There are some notes on other players here and there, but they never seem to lead to an actual conclusion. Even now, she lacks strong opinions on who she thinks is scum beyond her cases of Schezo and myself, the latter of which seems as if it is forced and only an attempt to get some words out as a response to pressure. As far as I can tell I never cheerleaded Schezo's case on you, unless you're counting me saying that I found your presence to be underwhelming as promoting his vote. tl;dr post more conclusions and stop coasting by on rapid-fire weak posts and a single low-content case, thanks. There's a reason I've been finding you forgettable.
Also, her recent gutclear on Conqueror is bad. Conqueror's wagon didn't spring up very fast at all as far as I can tell, though the lack of an apparent counterwagon is a little disconcerting. Considering that Conqueror himself has been looking pretty shifty up to this point, this clear raises some concern from me. Even if Conqueror isn't scum (not too sold on that but will hopefully re-evaluate this thought soon), Shadoweh's clear on him reads more like scum trying to gain points for not being on a townie wagon to me due to the lack of a thought process behind it. A proper Conq flip would help me read into this more, I think.
I need to look into Conqueror again now that he's made a new post, and I also want to see what Schezo has been up to. Will work on that in the morning. New posts from PX and Hourai would be appreciated too, especially in regards to the latter. Will decide where I want my vote parked right now after I sort out all that (though for now I'm fine keeping it on Hourai, why is everybody letting him slip by again?)
-
PX's return sucked. Tell me where you see an opinion on the fact that there's a game going on in it because I don't see it.
I haven't said I think Schezo is scum. Don't put words in my mouth.
Yes, I am counting you saying:
While I'm at it, Schezo's case on Shadoweh seems to be rather on the IIoA side (though I actually agree that Shadoweh has been rather underwhelming so far, will look into her later). I would like to see him state why her actions are scummy instead of only talking about what the actions are.
and
Your post came off like a report of Shadoweh's actions. You can't just expect us to draw conclusions as to why she's scummy ourselves from a recap of what she's done so far this game.
I do think I understand your point a bit better now, but your post still reads a bit awkwardly. Will have to look Shadoweh over regardless.
Come off as cheerleading him without putting your vote where your mouth is. I find you giving your points now that I have enough votes to be as much of a wagon as Conqueror is as extremely suspicious.
In short, you?
##Unvote
##Vote huh what
I think you're a zombie.
-
Oh god why am I still here.
I'm sorry, but reading those in context I really can't see those posts as cheerleading. At all. Really. Where do you even get that idea?
You also missed my other question:
Also, another clarification.??? That's essentially the definition. I was hoping for more what you think those behaviours might be.
Anyway, I'm off for now, again, ze.
-
EBWOP: If anything, he could be seen as cheerleading my wagon, not Schezo's, so I'm curious why you decided to bring up the weaker point.
-
I'm sorry, but reading those in context I really can't see those posts as cheerleading. At all. Really. Where do you even get that idea?
Because somehow he manages to say that Schezo's case on me is bad but he should keep pursuing it without sounding like that's what he's saying or giving his own opinion on it. He will 'look into it later'. He doesn't mention you in those posts, I will address what he's doing with your wagon in a second.
I don't know how many more ways people want me to say "Conqueror's posts do not sound like scum to me." but I'm done saying it. Yes even to Conqueror. In fact let's talk a bit about how the game turned into this.
So huh what, I went back to see who exactly turned this into a "PX vs Conqueror" game, and guess what! It's you! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581626.html#msg581626) Look, more you! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581626.html#msg581626) Followed by even more you! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581661.html#msg581661) For someone who was voting Bardiche so seriously you sure cared about PX and Conqueror alot! I have a novel idea if you don't want us to notice your rotting skin, why don't you actually scumhunt against the person you're voting for? You're voting for Hanged Hourai, please tell me more about why all his actions this game are scummier then everyone else you've brought up?
-
Uh, are you telling people to tunnel?
-
I really don't like how Kilgamayan's first two votes, both of which occurred when RVS was pretty much over, were both basically jumping onto people who already had multiple votes on them with no reasoning given other than "the other guy looks uninteresting".
Multiple people with multiple votes is always interesting ED1. It's ED1, there's isn't much else to do. I would like to think the Serela vote was accompanied by a tiny bit more than that, too.
##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela
As good a choice as any for caring a bit more than necessary about Bard's vote on him.
The way he all but flipped out in reaction to Bard's vote was suspicious. Being as wordy as he was in his own defense that early? Did not ring pleasantly.
The Bard case was uninteresting because his motives were being questioned when I thought it was pretty obvious Serela was selected more or less at random and that "why Serela" was a silly question to ask. And hey, I was right (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582046.html#msg582046).
Conqueror's large post read fairly well initially, but in taking a closer look I see several fencesitting stances, most notably on capt. h, Hourai and UK, and most everything else is clarification requests. The Serela case is about the only concrete opinion I can divine from it...and it annoys me a little because Serela would be my second choice. Still, not quite enough to get me to switch yet, as I'm noticing a lack of explanation as to why he deemed capt. h fit to unvote (one would think that rereview would want to come before the decision to unvote).
-
I mean there's nothing wrong with making cases on people that you aren't voting for.
Especially since it's D1 and all.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Screw you internet.
Stuff doesn't load, man.
I mean, come on, it's just text.
You don't have to take over a minute to load one page.
-
Your case on the person you're voting for should be better then the ones on people you are not voting for, yes? The level of misrep of turning that entire post into 'Shadoweh wants you to tunnel on one person' makes me cry, Dormio.
-
huh what said he'll make a post on the other people, including Hourai, later though.
Of course, if that post never comes...
-
The big thing Conquerer? What you say never seems to reflect what you DO. You'll be talking in one direction and voting in a completely different direction, than hiding behind the terrible excuse of "I vote anti town players when I don't know who's scum"
PX is kind of unimpressive to me, Shadoweh, but so far nothing has stuck out. It'd help me greatly if you made a concise post about everything you find wrong with him so I can see if I see it.
-
Wow at all this complexity which could easily lead to nothing. Votecounts need to be made much more often.
The point that jumps out most at me now is the fact that the interactions Conqueror seems to have with a whole lot of people. Since Conqueror at four votes was a relatively major case, I would expect people to explicitly state reasons as to why they think the case on Conqueror was worst than the cases they were making up, but Bardiche and Zakeri have all handwaved Conqueror as being uninteresting without elaboration. Serela has completely ignored later reasons on voting Conq in favor of Zakeri.
huhwhat makes a rather thoughtful comparison here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581713.html#msg581713) between Conq and PX only for it to dissolve into a completely uninspired Hanged Hourai vote here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582213.html#msg582213) even before Conqueror has made his redeeming post later on. I say uninspired because his reasons as to why he chose Hourai and not Serela are false; Hourai has had no opinions before voting Zakeri either, and accusing Hourai of parroting is rather silly considering that the case against Zakeri was so obvious. Wanting to see Hourai 'hang' for this while putting absolutely no pressure on Serela screams scumbuddy, and the vote on Hourai itself combined with repeated promises to reread Conq seems like a well-disguised fence-sit to divert his vote wherever needed.
Shadoweh's very flaccid defense of Conqueror is excaberated by the fact that though PX, Schezo, and huh what have all commented on this, Shadoweh rather interestingly pigeonholes PX as saying nothing, Schezo as proposing conspiracy theories, and huhwhat as 'not putting vote where mouth is' and cheerleading Schezo without answering the more salient points of their investigation, one of which is why are you clearing Conqueror based on gut. It really is quite irritating, and your latest point about huhwhat 'making it a choice between Conqueror vs. PX is silly because everyone from PX to capt.h to Schezo thought about it independently from huhwhat. And no cheating by saying he doesn't sound scum; why doesn't he? Valid points are valid points despite what you may think of the speakers, and they have to be answered.
Conqueror's final post is a welcome change from defense, though perhaps far from enough. One-sentence turnaround from capt.h is generally not convincing since you seemed to have shed tears and blood in defense of having that case, and the Serela case, while telegraphed slightly from the past here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581762.html#msg581762), is a little too easy to be convincing. If you were not shaping up to be the true core of D1 I might have switched to someone else, but personally, I think your flip is somewhat important to all of us.
Serela is pretty much lackluster for reasons already stated. Switching to Zakeri without further elaboration is really lazy considering that so much has happened for your case on Conq. So yeah.
---
Thus, Conq is my main lynch for the day due to weirdness everyone has with him. If I can't get him, I will switch to Serela gladly. Shadoweh's alignment is dependent on Conq's, and huhwhat is adept enough for me to overlook his transgressions, and I will only switch to them on last resort (Shadoweh more than huhwhat).
-
VOTECOUNT - Mod Needs Time to Catch Up Edition
Shadoweh (3) - Schezo, capt. h, Dormio
Conqueror (3) - Kilgamayan, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
huh what (1) - Shadoweh, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
NeoSerela (1) - Conquerer, Bardiche, Kilgamayan
Dormio (1) - Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Zakeri (1) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Hanged Hourai (1) - huh what
UncertainKitten (1) - Bardiche
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
PX (0) - Shadoweh
capt. h (0) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt, Kitten4u, PX
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. Less than 31 hours remain.
-
UK: Do you still think there's nothing wrong with his last post if you take into account that he's no longer voting for anyone? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582341.html#msg582341) The posts between you and PX are also just weird.
Summary: One blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target. After Post #135 I can add Useless clarification of something that doesn't matter without answering any questions, addressing the rest of the game or being useful, along with not voting because he doesn't care anymore I guess? This is pretty scummy behaviour.
Affinity: I'm confused by this in your last sentence. "and huhwhat is adept enough for me to overlook his transgressions" What exactly does this mean?
I don't like this idea that If Conqueror = Town then Shadoweh = Town because it's reversable and my Town flip shouldn't indicate someone else on Day 1. Every time someone asks me about him I go back and re-read his posts and see contributing to the game, not ignoring the rest of the game, and points on other players that I generally agree with. Like his response to huh what. My gut is saying that he is not BSing and is therefore, probably not scum. Does that explain it better? Because I'd really, really, REALLY like to make posts that don't have the word Conqueror in them, but so many of you seem more interested in what I think of him then anyone else. Did you know there are fifteen other players that could have cases on them?
Like huh what. I don't think it's a silly point to say he moved us towards a state of comparing everything to "PX and Conqueror" because he really did. And he did it first and often. If you take a moment to read through his posts you should see that in them everywhere. I didn't like his stance that Bardiche's post with the words 'Resident RVS Hater' and a Yugioh card could somehow be taken seriously and was a good excuse to cheerlead PX and Conqueror without picking a side until there were three votes on Conqueror. I don't like how he cheerled Schezo until there were three votes on Shadoweh and then was the time to start making opinions that could lead to a vote jump. In short, I do not like huh what and think he should be purged.
-
@Shadow: PX's posting feels too dumb to be scum.
-
That's enough of a possibility that I'm willing to drop him for today. On the condition that he vote for someone in his next post.
-
Hmm...yes, that sounds good. Not having a vote out tends to help scum more than town.
-
Alright, so I've decided I'm dropping the UK case, because I've every confidence that that will clear up sooner or later. ##UNVOTE
Bardiche and Zakeri have all handwaved Conqueror as being uninteresting without elaboration.
I can't remember directly saying it was an uninteresting case, but I chose not to comment on it because I had just caught up with quite a few pages of banter and, honestly, did not feel the drive to read why Conqueror was such a jarring case of Scumminess (TM). As I've read the current interactions, Conqueror feels like he is defending himself adequately, and the points A and B connect inbetween what he claims he is doing against other's interpretations, and the way I can see how he can validate those claims.
Put simply, I believe he has now made the transition to earnest scumhunting and has well explained his earlygame behaviour.
A more interesting venue to pursue has opened in huh what.
##VOTE: huh what
To say nothing of his initial case on me (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581676.html#msg581676) (and backpedaling in the link), which is bad in and of itself, a fact I am glad he acknowledges himself... but leaving that aside, his move to Conqueror is pleasing in one way (he does raise a valid point about the cheerlead), but displeasing in another.
Particularly that he claimed both PX and Conqueror were bad, but he never elaborates on this point or comes out with information on why PX is less worse than Conqueror and, indeed, does not revisit his thoughts re: PX after his thoughts re: Conqueror turn towards Hourai instead.
I'd like Huh What to clear up for us just why PX is no longer a point of interest worth mentioning, and why he feels that Hourai is a better lynch target while chiding others for gutclearing Conqueror. You yourself do not seem to believe Conq is scummiest, or your vote would be parked there. Perhaps you could, in all gladness, explain it to us all.
-
K4U is lurking her way through day 1.
Zakeri's grand total of two posts past confirmation isn't exactly impressive either.
Affinity has four posts after confirm.
Scezo's 3 post confirmation posts aren't that great either.
Colt has three posts after confirm
The average post count should be around 12, so I would like to see more posts from these 5 players.
-
Nice recap, bro.
Anyway, I'm feeling too trippy this morning, so I'll reread/post once I get back from uni which should be in around 8 hours from this post.
-
Prods have been sent to Colt, NeoSerela, and Zakeri.
-
Wait, that's not a recap.
What am I on?
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:/
-
Wow, it is hard to get out opinions in this game with so many posts from so many people. Anyways, responses.
I disagree that I am lacking in reasons to vote Hourai. His play this game has been giving off major lurkscum vibes due to the sparse posting and lack of quality contributions/opinions when he does appear. Like I said, in his his only notable post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582204.html#msg582204), he fails to actually come to a conclusion about any player he thinks is scum aside from Zakeri, making it difficult to tell where he stands on people. I can not tell who he thinks is scum other than Zakeri, who has generally been cemented as an easy target at this point. The complete drop of his earlier case on me is disconcerting as well, as he did not even explain why he dropped it. Lack of thought process, which is bad. While I typically do not particularly mind D1 lurking, Hourai's play so far has been giving town incredibly little to work with beyond an easy wagon jump and this should be reason for suspicion. I was generally hoping that my vote on him would give him some incentive to actually start playing pro-town, but that seems to have failed, as he still has not met my requests for more content beyond another jump onto an easy target (Dormio) in a post that continues to neglect the rest of the players. I'll probably switch off of Hourai by the end of this post since nobody seems to agree with me at all and we need a majority to lynch in this game, but let it be noted that I'm not willing to give him a pass yet.
Affinity, I seemed to recall Serela handling his votes better and actually giving off some sort of pressure while voting, but I looked back and I guess this actually hasn't been the case. Which makes me pose a question for Serela, where do you currently stand on Conqueror? Aside from that, I still feel that Hourai's general play makes him more deserving of suspicion than Serela, since he was the one potentially turning Serela's Zak vote into a wagon via lazy scumhunting, and has also been actively contributing a lot less.
Bard, a majority of my ED1 focus was on Conqueror instead of PX was because Conqueror was being unclear, passive and generally un-motivated while PX did seem to have genuine conviction after his return. It should be noted that PX's return also implied he was not yet finished laying out his thoughts, so I had intended to let him finish his post before looking into him further (except then it took forever for him to actually do so, derp <_<). As I kept pressing Conqueror, I felt that he slowly cemented himself as scummier than PX and the superior of the two targets. I still have this sentiment now that PX has put some actual thought into his capt. h vote, although I am currently completely confused why he chose to unvote.
Shadoweh seems to think I can put my votes in multiple places (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582646.html#msg582646) (she does that here too (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.240.html), and it should be noted that had I realized my mistake earlier I would have most certainly chosen to vote Conqueror at that point) and her case against me is still generally silly, not much to really address here. It should be noted that it's also pretty difficult to pressure somebody who has gone to bed and isn't responding, so I think my focus on Conq/PX was reasonable considering that I had no way to continue pressuring Bard at the time. Everything I had to say had already been said, not that it really mattered. As for why I never posted points on her until recently, I have no real excuse for that beyond laziness, but it should be noted that I never actually felt she was particularly scummy until my re-read. The claims that I was cheerleading on Schezo's case on her are downright false, considering that the most I had said about her in response to Schezo was that I had found her forgettable. Additionally, I still believe that Shadoweh's sudden pressure on me seems forced, as if she's making it up as she goes along in response to the people pressing her for comments. It should be noted that pretty much everything she claims to have against me could have been stated by her much, much, earlier, which adds to the feeling that she's just BSing a weak and easy case up on somebody to get everyone off her back. I don't like her at all at this point.
However, out of the two currently leading wagons, I think I am a bit more inclined to stick with my guns and vote for Conqueror. Why? Well, for one, I strongly dislike the way Shadoweh's wagon slowly sprang up out of nowhere from a bunch of selectively weak votes: Dormio's bullet point case on her is difficult to understand and comes off sort of like an awkward shotgun attack, and Schezo's case on her began as IIoA and I still find that it is needlessly nitpicky and overall confusing. You know how I said that Conqueror's wagon seems to suspiciously lack a counterwagon right now? Well, if scum did attempt to make a counterwagon, then the Shadoweh wagon is definitely it. (This also makes Conqueror's flip somewhat more valuable.) In contrast, I've been getting townie vibes from all the players on the Conqueror wagon up to this point, so that is noted as well.
As for Conqueror himself, his recent post has failed to impress, even if it is superior to the rest of his scummy play so far. I see a lot more requests for opinions or further clarification than actual scumhunting, and that's no good. His line on Hourai says nothing and is pretty much negligable too, which irks me, considering my own personal stances. Even his primary case boils down to a clarification/opinion request and some reportering of Serela's actions. It's a fairly weak jump and seems like he is just using Serela as a convenient location to park his vote now that capt. h has begun shaping up.
##Unvote Hanged Hourai
##Vote Conqueror
Other people (not willing to type up :words: on them because they're less notable to me and this post is long enough as is): - capt. h seems to have stepped up his game and I'm a little bit less wary of him now. Willing to pass off his earlier play as a newbie trying to get their act together and failing in light of his recent contributions.
- PX is better than Conqueror but needs to get a vote out, why did he unvote again? :| I seriously can not figure out what reasons he had for doing so.
- I have not been thoroughly reading Dormio's posts at all up to this point because they're so scatterbrained and confusing. He needs to clarify his thoughts better instead of posting in bullet points. His case on Shadoweh seems kinda weak, but it's hard to tell considering his posting style.
- Schezo's posts are confusing but this is also in line with his meta. Reading him as derp right now. I think he's focusing on Shadoweh a bit too much.
- Hourai, post content on more than one player, please. I would still be on you if people actually cared about your existance, but the end of the day is nearing and I'd rather not have my vote idling around in a game where we need a majority to lynch.
-
Also,
I haven't said I think Schezo is scum. Don't put words in my mouth.
I meant PX, not Schezo. Derp. <_<
-
@Shadoweh: I'm not claiming that if Conqueror is town you are town; but what I'm claiming is that if Conqueror is scum, you have a high chance of being scum. This is because gut as a reason of clearing someone can be faked, and since scum want to protect themselves as much as possible, I see this as a connection. There are reasons we have raised against Conqueror which are inherent in his posts (e.g bad vote on capt. h for the entirety of the game which got retracted, etc.), and if you are going to defend him, I want to hear things in relation to the above reasons (e.g why they aren't so hot). Bardiche, Zakeri, and Serela are somewhat not exempt for this, but since you have been defending him actively the entire game and seemingly hitting everyone for it, your alignment would be somewhat connected to Conq's. I don't like how you have been avoiding this point.
As for the PX vs. Conqueror thing, I think I misunderstood what you said, sorry. But personally, for the PX drop, I don't agree with you on the seriousness of that, since he had been on PX for going for capt. h for easy reasons. It's not as if PX posted anywhere between all those 'cheerleading posts' that you have been quoting anyway, and I don't find his mistaken thing on Bardiche jarring since, uhh.. Conqueror has had a mistaken thing on capt.h for much more of the game. Also, why unconvincingly cheerlead on someone with no votes on them at all? How is that scummy? While I'm interested in where his points against PX have gone, I can think of several reasons myself (e.g general fatigue like you against Conqueror). I'm more interested in his switch from Conqueror to Hourai which I find somewhat inexcusable.
A question, why did you drop PX yourself for huhwhat? Case fatigue? Doesn't that make it contradictory? And what happened to the 'posting more = somewhat good' thing when huhwhat has been posting a lot?
As for huhwhat, I think I have a better tab on what his opinions are the entirety of day and I find myself agreeing with him for quite a number of stuff (e.g on Conqueror and on you), making me unwilling to lynch him even though he has things to explain. Certainly stronger than your constant vote-resting on PX and non-defense of Conqueror, and more or less much more contributive than Serela and Conqueror. Ninja'ed post seems to be reinforcing the above, though I need to read it more thoroughly.
-
Hi there.
So huh what, you have a pretty decent case on me right now. Your Conqueror case however, boils down to something far less impressive. Right when people start hounding you on why you have your vote on me while having stronger scum opinions on other people, you crack under the pressure and make a whole spiel on me, but go back to your Conqueror case, even though it's weaker. And you basically say that you want to get back on his wagon too.
Explain pl0x.
-
Hourai: The day is running out of time and we need to reach a majority (hammer) to get a lynch. I may not be around for deadline, so I would like my vote to be somewhere where it'll actually be useful.
Not to mention that think both of you are pretty scummy regardless.
-
Also, what do you think is "weak" about my Conqueror case? If I had little-to-no reason to believe that Conqueror was scum, I could see why you would be on edge over this, but it's not like I haven't been pursuing him for being genuinely scummy today.
-
huh what: How does someone have conviction and drop all votes at the same time? That implies he didn't believe in his own case. Are you aware your second link goes to UncertainKitten? Your entire attempt to pressure Bard over nothing and make it sound like it was something was silly. Laziness is not a Town trait. You may not have said you thought I was scum but you made it sound like there was something worth looking into. Which you didn't. Until other people had already piled on. More laziness. I even commented that I was waiting for you to get off your lazy butt. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582089.html#msg582089) Then you promised again to read me over after :effort: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582213.html#msg582213) Again saying you agreed with someone's points against me. Then finally, over a day later, after I have said I think you're a zombie (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582581.html#msg582581), have three votes and at least two other people have expressed dislike of my case and play, you can be arsed to give that re-read you promised me and decide "Shadoweh does look kinda scummy." No. That is bullshit.
Affinity: If you can say that my play is linked to Conqueror because I defended him, you could say that huh what's play is linked to PX by going after the not-PX idea and subtly implying (or outright saying in his last post) that he thinks PX is better then Conqueror. The above laziness that I'm pointing out dropped him below PX on my zombdar. Which considering what I think of PX is pretty impressively bad. I think Conqueror is going to flip Town, so I'm not worried about his flip incriminating me. I think Conqueror is Town, so I'd rather he not get lynched at all.
-
EBWOM: Stupid ninjas. Change huh what's last post to this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583133.html#msg583133)
-
@huh what
So you admit jumping on a wagon instead of trying to lynch the person you find scummiest. Am I correct in assuming so?
New reply
Also, what do you think is "weak" about my Conqueror case?
You seem more intent on pushing others (me) as scum, even thought you're voting him. And I never called it "weak," I said it was weaker than mine.
Good job on twisting my words.
And also, fun fact, you've never said him or his actions have been scummy until your recent posts. It's always something else. You've tip-toed around that subject even though you say you've
been pursuing him for being genuinely scummy today.
I just find that neat.
-
I read huh what's #252 and that last paragraph made me rage. Suffice to say that I will be posting soon, but I'm only posting right now to ask what makes you think Serela is a convenient location for me to park my vote? I could throw that accusation back at you. Why'd you park an easy vote on Hourai?
-
Laziness is not a Town trait.
The notion that all townies have infinite motivation to hunt scum every waking minute and never have anything else they'd rather (or even have to) be doing is pretty ridiculous. If laziness is not a town trait, then it's not a scum trait either. It's bad play for one's alignment, but that's the fault of me as a player, not something indicative of whether or not I'm a townie.
Then you promised again to read me over after :effort: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582213.html#msg582213) Again saying you agreed with someone's points against me.
I never said I agreed with capt. h's points? I said I needed to re-read you to tell if I did or not. I liked his attempts to contribute but I never actually mentioned agreed with them.
Pretty funny how the main focus of your case on me seems to constantly be switching every time you get pressed on it. In all honesty, I find that my constant allusions to my intent of finding you worth looking into make my recent scum read on your more believable than the other way around - it shows that I did indeed have some sort of thought process regarding my recent conclusions on you, making my actions not entirely unprecedented in the style of scum looking for an easy wagon hop on you. (Which never even happened, by the way.)
Ninja'd by Hourai: Speaking of twisting people's words, your entire first sentence does a pretty good job at that! It should be fairly obvious that I've consistantly found both you and Conqueror scummy throughout the day, hell, I was even one of the first people to actually look at him. I'd love to see you die at this point, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen, and when you consider that both you and Conq are scum, I don't think my vote on the Conqueror wagon is exactly unreasonable. I'd still like to know how my Conqueror case is weaker than my case on you, by the way. Your wording implied that you disliked my Conqueror case to an extent and I continue to want an explanation, even if you think I was misrepping you. That said, I actually do think a Conqueror lynch is the more valuable information-wise as previously, so even if he's not as high on my scum list as you are (which isn't to say he isn't high on it, since you seem to like overassuming what I mean when I'm not clear about these things), so it's not like there's no gain from getting him lynched over you.
Okay, so rarely using the word "scummy" in reference to Conqueror means I don't actually think he's genuinely scummy? Even though I said he was bad and even had my vote on him at one point? :V I really have no words for this. I'm not even sure what you're trying to do with this sudden case on me, but it's looking like a pretty shaky OMGUS+nitpicky word-twisting combination to me.
Also, you're still making posts that only track single players, which is not particularly making me feel any safer about your alignment.
Won't be able to post much from now on, but I'll try.
-
I read huh what's #252 and that last paragraph made me rage. Suffice to say that I will be posting soon, but I'm only posting right now to ask what makes you think Serela is a convenient location for me to park my vote? I could throw that accusation back at you. Why'd you park an easy vote on Hourai?
The way you backtrack from capt. h without giving any truly decent reasons for being 0k with him now make it seem like you're just using your Serela vote as filler. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
-
The notion that all townies have infinite motivation to hunt scum every waking minute and never have anything else they'd rather (or even have to) be doing is pretty ridiculous. If laziness is not a town trait, then it's not a scum trait either. It's bad play for one's alignment, but that's the fault of me as a player, not something indicative of whether or not I'm a townie.
I have infinite motivation. Manic motivation even. You're wrong though about laziness not being scummy. It's scummy. Scum can afford to be lazy and let the days pass by. Townies cannot.
I never said I agreed with capt. h's points? I said I needed to re-read you to tell if I did or not. I liked his attempts to contribute but I never actually mentioned agreed with them.
Your exact words were "I like capt. h's points on Shadoweh and still need to re-read her to see if I agree with them. :effort: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582213.html#msg582213)" If you express like of something I am going to assume you saw something there worth agreeing with.
-
Oh fuck this.
##Unvote
##Vote Hanged Hourai
The more I think about it, the less his recent attacks sit well with me, especially considering how he's still ignoring everybody else and keeping his vote on Dormio. If I waffle my vote between him and Conqueror again feel free to punch me, but let it be clear that I think they're probably scum together regardless.
Ninja'd by Shadoweh which I don't really have anything to say to beyond "I disagree and wasn't thinking that when making those decisions".
-
Incoming big post coming. I expect a bunch of ninjas
-
Oh fuck this.
##Unvote
##Vote Hanged Hourai
The more I think about it, the less his recent attacks sit well with me, especially considering how he's still ignoring everybody else and keeping his vote on Dormio. If I waffle my vote between him and Conqueror again feel free to punch me, but let it be clear that I think they're probably scum together regardless.
Ninja'd by Shadoweh which I don't really have anything to say to beyond "I disagree and wasn't thinking that when making those decisions".
I'm confused by your Hourai case.
As I've pointed out, we have 5 other lurkers in this game that have made fewer posts than Hourai, so if I were looking for lurkscum, I would look there first. Is the primary case the lack of value of Hourai's posts? because PX has posted pretty uselessly himself. Could you please explain why Hourai is your primary lynch target, as opposed to other targets that have done the same thing?
@Hourai - Please make a meaningful and well thought out contribution immediately. We need content from you.
-
capt.h: Do you still feel I am the best case right now?
-
capt. h: Hourai's play seems to be closer to drifting than PX's is, and his content feels less original than PX's and he seems to mainly focus on minor issues and silly mistakes when scumhunting. I guess I could be tunneled, but after his recent posts, I don't think that's the case.
That, and I'm not on him because of lurking alone.
-
Also, amount of posts =/= amount of content
A few of the inactives that I presume you are talking about (Affinity) have posted enough quality content that I would not really consider them for lurkscum over somebody who has contributed nothing original or worthwhile like Hourai. I'm also not willing to judge somebody with no content at all like Pesco and his cat, that should be left up to a modkill.
-
capt. h: Hourai's play seems to be closer to drifting than PX's is, and his content feels less original than PX's and he seems to mainly focus on minor issues and silly mistakes when scumhunting. I guess I could be tunneled, but after his recent posts, I don't think that's the case.
That, and I'm not on him because of lurking alone.
Honestly, I became suspicious of the way Hourai said you never referred to Conqueror as scummy. She (he?) will need to be more precise with a claim like that, since that made me decide to double check her claim. You do in fact use the word "scum" when referring to Conqueror fairly frequently. See, if her claim was true, I would be suspicious of you. But her claim is false, and I would like to know if that claim is her being townie looking for scum patterns or scum hoping for a claim townies wouldn't verify. A post with content from Hourai would be immensely helpful here.
What makes me suspicious of you is that I would like you to have a stronger case before pursuing someone, considering the cases so far. Once again, we need a post with content from Hourai to proceed.
capt.h: Do you still feel I am the best case right now?
I don't know.
-
VOTECOUNT - Even the Mod is a Ninja Edition
Conqueror (3) - Kilgamayan, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Shadoweh (3) - Schezo, capt. h, Dormio
huh what (2) - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
Hanged Hourai (1) - huh what
NeoSerela (1) - Conquerer, Bardiche, Kilgamayan
Dormio (1) - Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Zakeri (1) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
UncertainKitten (0) - Bardiche
PX (0) - Shadoweh
capt. h (0) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt, Kitten4u, PX
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. 24 hours remain in the day. Remember that if no majority is reached, there will be no lynch.
-
Once again, we need a post with content from Hourai to proceed.
I find his lack of good content to be the most telling regarding his alignment, though. Not that I don't want him to make an actual post, it's just that I think this mindset lets weaker lurkers off too easy.
-
Things that bother me that recent events have brought to light for me:
- The high tensions that seem to be running along this game. C'mon, people, calm down.
- capt. h serving as a clock tower. Yes, we all know K4U hasn't posting anything yet. If she continues to not post the mod will deal with her. D1 is not LAL time because there are too many potential outside circumstances. It is especially not LAL time when the person in question is in danger of being modkilled.
- Shadoweh's insistence that huh what was/is trying to force some sort of Conqueror/PX dichotomy. I read through all of his posts and didn't get a sense that he was trying to push such a thing at all. I saw him as suspicious of them both but still touching on various other players as he went along. Accusations of a dichotomy push are doubly questionable when huh what's vote had been on neither person up until very recently and then wasn't there for very long.
- Shadoweh's rhetoric in general. I read her posts and get the feeling she's trying to get by more on strength of words than strength of logic, or at least depending on strength of words more than anyone else in the game. This actually combos neatly back into the huh what dichotomy push here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582646.html#msg582646) (and bonus points for the second example link in that post being identical to the first).
- huh what going into deadline panic when there's still about 24 hours to go. It's nowhere near panic time, especially not with the rate of activity this game has seen. (Unless you're seriously going to be absent for the next 24 hours in which case I think we'd all like to know that now.)
- Hourai's terrible spinjob on huh what's vote switching, as much as I disagree with the deadline panic. This has already been discussed by huh what himself, so I won't waste further space.
- The whole nonsense surrounding "huh what liked capt. h's points on Shadoweh! But does this mean he agreed with them?" and what's truly irritating is that it's coming from both sides. It was silly in the first place to say "I like them but I need to re-read to see if I can agree with them" and it's equally silly to go "you said you liked them you must have meant you agreed with them" when, as silly as the initial statement is, it says pretty plainly that he's not sure yet if he agrees with them.
Things that I like:
- Affinity.
- ...That's about it. :[
-
I find his lack of good content to be the most telling regarding his alignment, though. Not that I don't want him to make an actual post, it's just that I think this mindset lets weaker lurkers off too easy.
Then let me rephrase my request.
##Unvote
##Vote Hanged Hourai
Please make a post with content immediately Hourai.
-
To be perfectly honest, Kilga, I thought the deadline was a few hours earlier than it actually is due to mindscrew reasons, meaning that I'd be at school when it came around. I could elaborate on this but I don't think it'd do much beyond proving that I'm a derp.
-
Oh you mod you.
- Shadoweh's rhetoric in general. I read her posts and get the feeling she's trying to get by more on strength of words than strength of logic, or at least depending on strength of words more than anyone else in the game. This actually combos neatly back into the huh what dichotomy push here (and bonus points for the second example link in that post being identical to the first).
I actually have no idea what this means. I believe that the way people say things is as important as what they're saying. Is there something wrong with that?
-
Kilgamayan, Affinity, Huh What; the interactions between you three bothered me just now.
Why is Affinity above suspicion? You, Huh What, consider both Kilgamayan and Affinity to be townies here:
In contrast, I've been getting townie vibes from all the players on the Conqueror wagon up to this point, so that is noted as well.
And you, Kilgamayan, just declared Affinity to be the only thing you like about this game.
Please explain.
-
Huh? I'm confused how these things are related or how my opinions on Kilga and Affinity are even involved with your question.
-
Huh? I'm confused how these things are related or how my opinions on Kilga and Affinity are even involved with your question.
Let me explain; at the time of your decision that conqueror was the better wagon, Affinity, Kilga, and Uncertain Kitten were all voting for Conqueror. You were getting townie vibes from that wagon. And Kilga just now declared that Affinity was the only thing he liked about this game. Why are you willing to just pass Affinity off as townie? The same goes for Kilga.
-
I've been finding that I agree with several of Affinity's points and haven't really found any of his actions this game to be very objectionable. Same goes for Kilgamayan, really. I don't know what to say beyond that.
-
Shadoweh: It obfuscates and gets people distracted from more important things by affecting emotions. It can even alter playstyles entirely; someone might get really mad and start tunneling on someone that isn't actually very scummy but has done plenty to piss them off, or someone may get scared or depressed and simply not want to keep playing, making them post less or stop posting entirely. I've seen countless examples of both throughout my playing "career", and it very often tends to lead to both scum victories (because town stopped playing the logic game) and hurt feelings postgame.
And even if it doesn't affect emotion much or at all, since I don't know your alignment, why should your conviction matter to me? "Well that person feels really strong about this position so it must have some merit" is not a smart way to play the game.
Basically, it not only isn't logical thinking, it can actually interfere with logical thinking, so yes, it is a bad thing.
Cut by capt. h: I like Affinity because I have liked the content of his posts the most of anyone in the game. There are certainly a handful people I don't particularly suspect but he's the only player with whom I'm actually happy.
-
capt h, your last vote and unvote were not counted due to lack of bolding.
-
dear god I'm moving all my stuff from one house to another and every time I look at the game there's at least two more pages of posts and auuuuuugh
Working on a post right now, but I'll make a few comments here I guess, from the things that stick out from my skimming. Sadface at Zakeri dropping a vote so ridiculously bad that apparently no one is even capable of taking it seriously (Which is quite understandable considering the situation, honestly) and then disappearing off the face of the earth.
At the moment I'm totally accepting of a Conqueror lynch both because of informational reasons and since there is good enough reason to believe that he is scum. Elaborating in my post coming, uh, very soon! Along with probably switching my vote to him.
-
I want to be clear: I don't think any of you four: UK, Kilga, huh what, or Affinity, are acting scummy.
I'm getting this weird sense of teamwork though between the four of you. You, huh what, seem to have the other three's back when you said you were getting townie vibes from the conqueror camp. Kilga seems to have Affinity's back, and part of his post was a defense of one of your statements. I'll have to reread to be sure though.
-
First off, to address this
Summary: One blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target. After Post #135 I can add Useless clarification of something that doesn't matter without answering any questions, addressing the rest of the game or being useful, along with not voting because he doesn't care anymore I guess? This is pretty scummy behaviour.
First off, post 135 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581819.html#msg581819) is essentially me saying I was too tired to make a post at that moment. Many other people have made posts like this, what about it? Blantant wagon hop in ED1. Like we haven't seen that before. In fact, Suwako Moriya does the exact same thing, but you never mentioned that ever. All you two were arguing about was you misreading his post and him clarifying it. That's why I never mentioned your conversation with him, as it was pointless. Also, the not answering questions thing.
WHAT QUESTIONS?!?!?!?!
I'll also quote myself here.
Defend myself? So you want me to defend myself from... nobody? Please, if you got anything on what I said, then make clearly state it.
Unvoting, I'll get on that later. However, if you deleted most of your unfinished post TWICE, you wouldn't feel like finishing it either.
Now that that's over, to reread for the I lost count time.
h. capt: I like him a little more now since he's actually scum hunting, so he no longer deserves my vote. Although trying to judge people over post count is pointless.
At this point, I'm going to separate myself from the Conquerer comparison. Posts 103 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581681.html#msg581681) and 104 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581682.html#msg581682). I'm adding more backing to my current vote on h. capt while Conquerer says that he has no reason why his vote capt. h other than that his vote is already there.
As for the Conquerer wagon, I feel that it is a legitimate wagon, as the most interesting thing I find about it is that almost everyone who put a vote on Conquerer added more reasons on top of what the person before him said instead of just saying that everything has already been said.
Suwako Moriya: I don't see anything wrong with his posts or his logic, so he gets ☆☆☆☆☆ from me.
On reading Conquerer, I was going to see how he responded to the cases on him. He's responded to Kilga by saying that his vote is on the most "anti-town person". Then on his response to what huh, he says he's "voting someone for being scummier than the other options on the table." Then promises to defend against the other cases... and doesn't. However, your Serela vote is pretty sound. Basically, I agree with cases against you, but at least you've made a decent case now.
Affinity is the Golden Townie and his posts make much sense and are agreeable, as pretty much always....
Going to leave off here right now, and finish up after eating. There's already about 20 posts made while I was making this one post. Zakeri disappearing is :(
But I agree most with the Conquerer wagon, and will park my vote there for now
##Vote: Conquerer
-
Unless you have reason to believe UK, Kilga, huh what and Affinity have a way to communicate with each other besides being in the same scum team, teamwork is a scummy thing this early. I doubt that's actually what's happening.
Kilga: Oh boy are we not going to get along this game if we think that differently. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings even if my words to them could be upsetting, but I can't figure people out without getting a feel for them. Especially how they react to being attacked.
Cut by something big blue and obnoxious brb
-
capt h, your last vote and unvote were not counted due to lack of bolding.
Right.
You know, I don't think it's scum team I'm seeing. Not yet at least.
##Unvote
##Vote Hanged Hourai
For the reasons I stated above.
-
PX: I suddenly feel like a jerk because I forgot to actually put what I wanted from you in the form of a question. I wanted you to answer what you thought of the people playing the game besides capt.h, most importantly who else you think might be scum. I'm already not going after you more today but I would like to hear who else you think is bad still.
-
Shadoweh: You can still attack them just fine, as long as it's done with logic and suspicion. The other problem inherent to rhetoric - ignoring all the potential for rage and hurt feelings - is that it can rather look like you're compensating for a lack of logic. In your case in particular it very much looks like that because I see some strong words surrounding the whole huh what dichotomy-push thing but I don't see a lot of believable evidence for it (and, again, the carelessness in linking to the same post twice while employing that rhetoric is an added bonus), so it makes me think you're trying to push a bad case by making it seem stronger and more valid than it actually is. And I don't think we need to have a long discussion on whether or not deception is scummy.
Just remember; you're playing a team game. It's important to hunt scum, but it's also important to make yourself believable, both in regards to "is this case valid?" and "do I trust this person?". If you can't accomplish those, whatever scumhunting you do is very likely to be in vain.
-
I apologize in advance if my tone is unsatisfactory! However, I felt this would be a better way to get my points across than making numerous ad homs and nasty attacks at people!
Behold! The long-promised defence post. To be honest, I seriously considered not going to the trouble of writing this, seeing as I am shaping up to be the primary lynch regardless, but it will be useful for future reference. So!
I voted capt. h at the time because I thought that initial post might have been a scum slipup. I kept my vote on him because his posts did nothing to make him look more townie in my eyes. PX, in my opinion, was derp for jumping on capt.h with a vote immediately after I did, and while I found his vote and actions to be unpleasant, I did not feel it warranted a vote. Meanwhile, capt. h was generally being avoidant and unhelpful with his posts (and as far as I can remember, he later admitted as such!). I felt this to be more actively scummy. His latest stances have shown improvement, and although I do not find them altogether satisfactory and believe they deserve more scrutiny in the future, I felt a vote switch to NeoSerela, who is not a newbie and has no excuse for his weak stances, would be more appropriate. There! You can keep picking at my exact words if you'd like, but those were my intentions.
Responding to Kilga's #236, I will elaborate on several of my stances.
Hourai has not really produced any useful content as of late, and his votes have been all over the place! However, given his general negligable presence, and the fact that there are several others like him, I cannot think of a particular reason why I should choose to vote for him instead of the others. I have chosen NeoSerela over Hourai because NeoSerela's active lurking and bad voting patterns irk me more than Hourai's hit and run style!
UK is possible scum! Thinking back about her, I can't remember any stances from her except for her awkward jump to voting me in #153 when she had a sudden epiphany that I was scum! She also engages in a lot of useless chatter, like post #246, which makes a point so obvious I don't even know why she would make it! Her post:content ratio is absolutely abysmal! Do you remember UK's opinions? All I remember is that she dislikes me, capt. h, and Colt. That's it! To that end, I've no idea why Bard would unvote her to pursue a case on huh what! I would like Bard to address this!
More opinions:
I feel Kilga is probably town! No particular reason. Unlike other people, he comments on almost all of the options on the table, and generally has opinions to go with them! Despite the fact that he is tunneling in on me. :<
Affinity deserves further scrutiny. While he does bring up many good points and makes more general sense than most people in the game so far, I've felt a weird air of passivity about him. Basically, I don't think people should just write him off as town even though he has been producing some of the best content, logicwise, in the game so far. Ignoring the fact that I'm town, of course.
I cannot really say anything about huh what objectively because his posts rub me the wrong way, as opposed to Kilga's and Affinity's which seem to be fair summaries/analyses, however misguided they are. huh what's posts about me, especially that last paragraph of #252, twist my intentions and words like no others before! I would vote him for this alone but, again, I feel NeoSerela is more deserving of my attention. Aside from huh what's twisted vote on me and his silly case on Bardiche, I really can't say I disagree with the rest of his stances.
NeoSerela is still bad upon reread and I will probably dislike him more when he votes me! Vote stays.
I will post more opinions on other people shortly, and I will elaborate on these and other opinions on request! Note that if I am still the primary lynch target a few hours from now, I will be forced to claim, because then we can do something ~fun~. :yukkuri:
-
In what way am I twisting your words? Point out examples, because there may be misconceptions on my part here.
-
I'm not sure if this is relevant, if it explains a lot, or if it won't explain anything...
Conqueror, is English your first language?
-
Kilga: I swear they were three different posts in my notes. I extra suck because I pointed out one of his links were wrong just before that. If you do a search of his posts on your own you will come across the words "PX and Conqueror" four times before Post #116, the post where he unvotes Bard and votes for Conqueror, using 'Conqueror is worse then PX' as his first reason. The rest of the case he makes against Conqueror isn't bad, which is why it was weird when he unvoted him.
I also find it odd that his initial suspicions of PX changed into support over a terrible post that ended in PX unvoting and giving up. If you believe PX's Post #179 was good, please tell me how so I can understand this. If he had said PX looked better after Post #286 I would understand.
Is this more logically palpable?
-
@huh what:
Perhaps twisting words is not the best way to put it. More like twisting intentions. In any case this is probably just due to different interpretations and I can't really fault you for it. I guess the best way to say it is that you have taken my actions and words and then assumed that I have the scummiest possible intent for them.
@Capt h. English is my first language. :P
-
post-postmaking-comment:hi welcome to the next episode of SERELA RANTING FOREVER, and no this post was not made in chronological order, I made paragraphs and lists and revisted and edited and copypasted things everywhere and idk
K. Reread the entire game. Dear god this game is already as long as some MotK games are when they end. Which is bad, since a game should not be so short unless it's only like 9 players maybe, but still so huge of a D1 oh jesus. This happened in Serp's last game as well, except it was more that everyone posted giant walls instead. Anywaaay, to the point. Points. With an S on the end.
Okay Conq stuff.
-Jumps vote onto capt.h for being a nib
...I'm done with the rest of my post and I forgot to ever come back to this part, ugh. And now I'm too burnt out to make a case on Conq. WHATEVER, I'LL BE HERE IN TIME FOR DEADLINE TOMORROW.
I don't understand Dormio's anything, but maybe it's because I need to sleep right now. This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582648.html#msg582648) in particular makes me go "...huh o_O?"
Affinity
-Reminds me of bofh in that he doesn't post often, his posts are always large and stuff that pretty much everyone agrees with and then thinks Affinity is a golden townie and it's like this whether he's town or scum and it's kind of scary to think about. That being said, I see no reason to suspect Affinity is scum at the moment.
Ow my stomach hurts ow ow ow
-insert paragraph where I have a huhwhat and bardiche puppet show and bard is calling his serelavote beautiful and awesome and ending rvs and huhwhat is scum being evile and scummy and then I realize I'm being silly and delete the entire huge ass paragraph but anyway the point here is that in my reread he touched my heart and I saw the light and bard is 100% fine at the moment so whatever ow my stomach-
Response to something UK said and other people linked at me repeatedly since I didn't appear for awhile:Yes I know bad players are not excempt from being scum but they're still super easy targets for scum to jump on. The fact that MotK is usually all to happy to lynch them probably helps me give them a golden pass out of sympathy and whatnot which isn't necessarily good but hey, if they're scum, they've gone ahead and been lynched by everyone else at some point anyway if better targets have not appeared. If they really suck though, and no one looks super scummy, I'm usually okay with lynching them in the end since it's hard to tell between big newbtown (capable of anything) and newbscum, and they're a liability in LyLo.
K random other people comments. Capt.h; oh u. Hourai looks like Hourai being Hourai right now. Zak, as I said, silly vote that's really scummy if you meant it but we can't even take it seriously since it's so... well, you know, and then you disappeared off the face of the earth so. Colt/K4U... so little information. Going to pull a Short Circuit and plain-out say NEED INPUUUT before I can say a single thing about those people UK, Kilga, Shadoweh, they seem townie enough to me at the moment. Gah I can't think about more people then this at one time, too many people playing. Is it bad that I'll be happy once we're down to single digits?
Around page 7 my brain died. This D1 is too big.
Oh damn big Conq post ninjaing me. I do not have the attention span to do more then skim it, I'm sorry, but.
Note that if I am still the primary lynch target a few hours from now, I will be forced to claim, because then we can do something ~fun~.
Sounds interesting. I guess I'll see it when I get back from, well uh, guess I'll sleep and then school and then be moving more of my possessions to my new place of living and then I'll be back in like a day minus 6 hours or something
Can't think straight anymore, going to bed.
-
NeoSerela, I would like you to make your case now so I can totally dismantle it. Also the end of tomorrow is going to be a mess so make your posts as early as possible.
-
Conqueror, please give an updated opinion on me. I'm not your scumpartner, so it's cool if you actually talk about me.
-
Also, Neo, I just read your entire post. I'm sorry to say it's basically useless. :ohdear:
@Shadoweh I will be commenting on you and the rest of the players in my next post. I AM ON FIRE ARAAHRGHRG!
-
Oh God this game. You all need to learn what the word concise means. Was busy all of today, and quite frankly am in no mood to read what...ah...theories, if I'm being polite, are abound. I'm going to be busy for much of tomorrow as well. This puts us in a quandary, since it basically means I can't respond to the last two pages. People in #meido have a fairly good idea why my patience is low right now.
From what I did read of Conquerer's latest posting, it's terrible. So far, I'm pretty much with Kilga, I think I'm with Huh what but he's being way to :words words words: right now for this point in the game and it's likely obfuscating stuff. No strong read on Shadoweh, getting the impression I need to reread her, just a gut feeling. Affinity is good, Bard is decent but a bit off in the sense that his theories feel wrong, but not scummy, PX is someone else I need to reread, probably with a stiff drink, K4U needs to actually post for once, capt. h. is pretty much off my radar at the moment, probably will need to revisit this, Zakeri's disappearing act makes him SO damn scummy and I would begin a wagon on him now if it weren't for the fact deadline is nigh...
Uh...wait, where's Schezo? Has he posted recently? And if so was it memorable at all? Same with Serela, but I'm pretty sure he HAS posted and it was unremarkable. Oh hey, ninja >=[!
HH, Dormio, and Colt also haven't struck me as impressive. I feel a particular need to reread HH since I've seen his name mentioned a lot. Colt, if I remember properly, still hasn't taking a solid stance, which is far from good. Dormio also needs a reread so I can remember what in the blazes he's actually said.
All this boils down to "I have several people to reread and it's not happening til the night phase. Sorry."
Oh, also, happy with my Conquerer vote, and I think a few people are town.
Warning - while you were typing 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Why?
Oh, hey, a Serela.
Also a Conquerer with a hilarious post. I didn't think you were a stand up comic.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
SHUT THE HELL UP FOR TWO SECONDS!
-
EBWOP: There's a bit of a disjointedness between the first two sentences of the second paragraph. I have been skimming the posts but a lot of them were too many words to adequetely examine in the time I had today.
-
Shadoweh: Not sure how I'm supporting PX by not finding him scummy as a lot of other people.
Conqueror: I suppose I could be somewhat biased because of your slight relations to Hourai and also because I've generally been finding you to be one of the scummier people alive (though a lot of the things I said about you in my responses to Hourai were likely exaggeration due to emotions/rage at him). To be perfectly honest, I've been feeling a bit better about you since your most recent post. I think I now have a better grasp of your intentions and reasons for unvoting capt. h and hopping to Serela, and you also feel more pro-active now, which is good. This makes me more content with my vote on Hourai for now, but I'm still wary about the way your ED1 turned out.
Ninja'd by Serela being Serela. Can't read it thoroughly right now, but it's giving me Vanilla Mafia town!Serela vibes, so there's that.
Ninja'd by UK sharing my own sentiments. It's too bad I'm going to have to make her rage even more by ninjaing her with this.
-
Er, what's ED1?
-
Early Day one.
-
Early Day 1.
Ignore what I said about UK, I'm a derp and I guess she's not making another post. I was getting ninja'd a lot so I didn't really want to read it. (The "sentiments" I was refering to were about ninjas, just so we're clear.)
-
I figured as such. I haven't established any strong stances because I've literally not been able to analyze what's transpired in the past three pages, now.
I do note a couple things I find kind of really bad though, so hopefully that helps.
-
My list of players that desperately need to talk more is Hourai, K4U and Schezo, I believe the K4U has one post-confirmation post and Scezo has three, whereas Huh What question Hourai's lack of content and I question one of her attacks on Huh What.
We need posts from all three before our time is up.
Neoserela needs to make a post when next sane.
Colt and Zakeri were just prodded. I'm not sure if they're still in the game.
-
@capt h. We all know that.
What do you think about the case on me?
-
@capt. h: Why the conspicuous lack of Zakeri who, as far as I am aware, has not posted since lol Schezo vote?
-
Schezo hasn't posted in awhile. I've felt lonely and untunneled against without him. Same goes for Dormio and I was really hoping to see something that wasn't an attack on me from him by now. Dormio should be posting in 2 hours.
We should all ask at once for Kitten4u to post, she loves it when we do that. (No, don't actually do this.)
We're at the point again where there is no other wagon. @mod A votecount please to illustrate this issue.
-
Just checked. Zak hasn't posted on site since that last post, but it HAS been 21 hours, which is a bit long to be sleeping or otherwise gone. I'd at least appreciate an explanation when he gets back.
-
Ok guys I'm really sorry for not posting recently because a bunch of stuff came up today and the phone ate my posts twice so I was getting pissy and decided to not make a rage post. I can't post right now but it should come in ~8 hours?
-
OK....it looks like we have about 18 hours left til deadline. This is better than I thought. Still not sure if I'll get a solid post in before then, but I'll try my best. With luck I'll be finished working around 3 PM EDT. Deadline as far as I can tell is more or less 6 PM EDT tomorrow. I'll be heading to bed shortly so I can't really cover it now.
Also, correct my times if I'm wrong.
-
VOTECOUNT - JAMEIN ENGLISCHSPRECHEN SKILLAREGUDEST ENOUGHTO DONTNEEDINGINTERPRETER Edition
Conqueror (4) - Kilgamayan, Affinity, UncertainKitten, PX, huh what, NeoSerela
Hanged Hourai (2) - huh what, capt. h
Shadoweh (2) - Schezo, Dormio, capt. h
huh what (2) - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
NeoSerela (1) - Conquerer, Bardiche, Kilgamayan
Dormio (1) - Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Zakeri (1) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
UncertainKitten (0) - Bardiche
PX (0) - Shadoweh
capt. h (0) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt, Kitten4u
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. More than 21 hours remain in the day.
-
Things and then bed.
I voted capt. h at the time because I thought that initial post might have been a scum slipup. I kept my vote on him because his posts did nothing to make him look more townie in my eyes. PX, in my opinion, was derp for jumping on capt.h with a vote immediately after I did, and while I found his vote and actions to be unpleasant, I did not feel it warranted a vote. Meanwhile, capt. h was generally being avoidant and unhelpful with his posts (and as far as I can remember, he later admitted as such!). I felt this to be more actively scummy. His latest stances have shown improvement, and although I do not find them altogether satisfactory and believe they deserve more scrutiny in the future, I felt a vote switch to NeoSerela, who is not a newbie and has no excuse for his weak stances, would be more appropriate. There! You can keep picking at my exact words if you'd like, but those were my intentions.
The two major issues that come to my mind with this:
* You say that Cap's (I'm bloody tired of typing the name proper) posts after his initial potential slip did nothing to make him look more townie. This is notably not the same thing as saying his posts made him look like scum. Once he had clarified where his numbers had come from your vote didn't have a leg to stand on; there is very little one can do ED1 to "look more townie", and I imagine that Cap was hardly the only one guilty of this. I have yet to see you point at anything of his from the time and say "I thought this was scummy", which is why I have hounded you on it so much. That and the next thing:
* If these were your intentions, why did it take this long to produce them, when you have had plenty of opportunities to write just the one paragraph it took?
If you do a search of his posts on your own you will come across the words "PX and Conqueror" four times before Post #116, the post where he unvotes Bard and votes for Conqueror, using 'Conqueror is worse then PX' as his first reason. The rest of the case he makes against Conqueror isn't bad, which is why it was weird when he unvoted him.
I also find it odd that his initial suspicions of PX changed into support over a terrible post that ended in PX unvoting and giving up. If you believe PX's Post #179 was good, please tell me how so I can understand this. If he had said PX looked better after Post #286 I would understand.
I did take a look back through huh what's posts before posting my assessment of you that first mentioned the rhetoric thing and I was aware of several instances where he mentioned both of them in the same post. I did not, however, see any instance where I felt he really tried to push them as the day's dichotomy (which I would consider scummy), especially not given he veered away from Conqueror toward voting Hourai instead at a point in the day that wasn't really early but certainly wasn't late. I don't think it's an issue at all for someone to mention multiple people multiple times if he thinks they are scummy and they are not doing anything to assuage those feelings.
(For the record, no, PX #179 did not impress me in the slightest.)
wall of things
My sympathies for your stomachache, but I am having a hard time divining any really meaningful opinions from this, aside from feeling good on Bard. :| This is not helping my view of you.
My list of players that desperately need to talk more is Hourai, K4U and Schezo, I believe the K4U has one post-confirmation post and Scezo has three, whereas Huh What question Hourai's lack of content and I question one of her attacks on Huh What.
See, I'm going to try to steer you away from this line of thinking again because I feel the most egregious lurker in the game so far is none of the people you've listed, but rather Dormio (who Shadoweh just touched on) who has a comparatively large post count but I cannot remember a single meaningful thing he's said. This is the kind of lurker worth pursuing, the one that tries to look active but isn't. Simply not being here is not a scumtell and constant reminders that people aren't here aren't going to make them post any faster. Try to turn your attention away from which people aren't posting at all toward people who aren't posting anything meaningful.
-
More Original Opinions Do Not Steal! Unfortunately there are not many opinions in this post, as most of the people I comment on here are forgettable!
Shadoweh is not looking too great this game! I do appreciate the defense (minus the fact you don't really give reasoning for it, but eh) but I want to see more opinions opinions opinions on other people! Also a lot of the points you are making about others are genuinely weird, as I have pointed out previously! I'm not really sure what to think! Maybe if you post restrict yourself I can get a better comparis-*knifed*. In all seriousness, I have the same feeling about post:content ratio concerning you as I did with UK. The difference is that I feel I have a general idea of where you stand on certain issues and people. It would still be better if you could continue to clarify those though!
capt. h needs more opinions on the table! It is impossible for me to say anything incredible about his play because there is not that much to go on! Post:content ratio needs to improve!
Bardiche is as unreadable as ever! Again, I would like him to comment on his sudden vote switch away from UK!
Dormio needs to expand on his one-liners!
PX is confusing and there's not much I can say about him! But I will comment that he jumps on my wagon without providing a reason for it beyond "I agree!" Then again, this fits in with PX's bandwagoning meta! Argh!
Schezo needs to talk about not-Shadoweh!
Kitten4U, Zakeri and Colt do not exist! Quite literally.
Serp needs to post more votecounts! :V Ninja-d aww.
-
Oh bloody fuck I never do that.
REPOST WITH PROPER TAGS
---
If you do a search of his posts on your own you will come across the words "PX and Conqueror" four times before Post #116, the post where he unvotes Bard and votes for Conqueror, using 'Conqueror is worse then PX' as his first reason. The rest of the case he makes against Conqueror isn't bad, which is why it was weird when he unvoted him.
I also find it odd that his initial suspicions of PX changed into support over a terrible post that ended in PX unvoting and giving up. If you believe PX's Post #179 was good, please tell me how so I can understand this. If he had said PX looked better after Post #286 I would understand.
I did take a look back through huh what's posts before posting my assessment of you that first mentioned the rhetoric thing and I was aware of several instances where he mentioned both of them in the same post. I did not, however, see any instance where I felt he really tried to push them as the day's dichotomy (which I would consider scummy), especially not given he veered away from Conqueror toward voting Hourai instead at a point in the day that wasn't really early but certainly wasn't late. I don't think it's an issue at all for someone to mention multiple people multiple times if he thinks they are scummy and they are not doing anything to assuage those feelings.
(For the record, no, PX #179 did not impress me in the slightest.)
wall of things
My sympathies for your stomachache, but I am having a hard time divining any really meaningful opinions from this, aside from feeling good on Bard. :| This is not helping my view of you.
My list of players that desperately need to talk more is Hourai, K4U and Schezo, I believe the K4U has one post-confirmation post and Scezo has three, whereas Huh What question Hourai's lack of content and I question one of her attacks on Huh What.
See, I'm going to try to steer you away from this line of thinking again because I feel the most egregious lurker in the game so far is none of the people you've listed, but rather Dormio (who Shadoweh just touched on) who has a comparatively large post count but I cannot remember a single meaningful thing he's said. This is the kind of lurker worth pursuing, the one that tries to look active but isn't. Simply not being here is not a scumtell and constant reminders that people aren't here aren't going to make them post any faster. Try to turn your attention away from which people aren't posting at all toward people who aren't posting anything meaningful.
-
@Kilga: That one paragraph of mine is merely a rehash of my previous posts. I have produced it before, just in a different form.
-
@capt h. We all know that.
What do you think about the case on me?
I think the case is strong. I don't think you're scum personally. I think that your cases would be weaker if you were scum. It's a similar reason to why I suspected shadoweh - I expected stronger cases from her.
My gut says you're town, but I don't trust my gut.
@capt. h: Why the conspicuous lack of Zakeri who, as far as I am aware, has not posted since lol Schezo vote?
Colt and Zakeri were just prodded. I'm not sure if they're still in the game.
-
I swear I can read, capt. h. Clearly what you are quoting from me was from bizarro me who has no comprehension of the english language. She also smells >=[!
(Yeah, consider that withdrawn)
-
You say that Cap's (I'm bloody tired of typing the name proper) posts after his initial potential slip did nothing to make him look more townie. This is notably not the same thing as saying his posts made him look like scum. Once he had clarified where his numbers had come from your vote didn't have a leg to stand on; there is very little one can do ED1 to "look more townie", and I imagine that Cap was hardly the only one guilty of this. I have yet to see you point at anything of his from the time and say "I thought this was scummy", which is why I have hounded you on it so much.
Alright, I'll make it clearer then. This is what made me wary about capt. h's posts at the time.
*The switch to Pesco (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581611.html#msg581611) on request, even though he had no reason to.
*This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581568.html#msg581568), which is apparently, not a joke, even though it reads like one.
Afterwards,
*This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581694.html#msg581694) where he says he might as well vote anyway, but then doesn't. Also the last sentence of the first paragraph, which is baffling.
*In general a lack of effort on his part. He later confirmed this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582038.html#msg582038), acknowledging that his earlier attitude had been unhelpful.
Most of it was just a gut feeling that something in his posts felt off. Not just the apparent newbness - there are multiple newbs playing in this game. I felt that this was enough for a vote at the time, and I stand by that now. His content since then has improved, so I felt comfortable unvoting him later in favor of Neo.
I imagine that Cap was hardly the only one guilty of this.
At that time, to me, yes, he was. I have already expounded on why I thought the other cases were bad.
All this plus I had no reason to switch to anyone else at the time even immediately after he made his initial clarification. Now of course I could just unvote and leave my vote hanging in the air, but then you would all get on my case for that. It's a lose/lose situation.
@capt. h. Alright. What do you think about some of the other people talking?
-
Kilga: You could have just asked to fix your other one! I have to respectfully disagree with you about huh what. He did veer away from Conqueror, but not in a way that stopped pushing Conqueror and he's made clear he could vote either way. I would like him to explain in words I can understand why Post #179 gives PX a clear today.
huh what: See above.
Conqueror the takeover king: No. I will cut you. I only feel the need to give opinions on people I think are scum, which is why I have been staring holes through PX and huh what and trying to ignore you. There are also at least five players that haven't posted anything new for me to give an opinion on so I'm stuck waiting for town.
capt.h My first Day 1 case was "Pesco is laughing at me and doing weird hax." I pray this case is better then that.
-
Oh dear god, words.
Dormio is rereading, again, please wait warmly.
-
I hate travel times.
Anyway.
Shadoweh: I still don't like you. :/
capt. h: What's with your need to update us with information on who hasn't been posting which everybody already knows.
Also, what do you get out of finding out if english is Conqueror's first language or not?
It shouldn't affect things either way.
Additionally, you say to Conqueror "I don't think you're scum." and "My gut says you're town, but I don't trust my gut."
Which is it?
More posts incoming after I do a bit more reading.
-
Kilgamayan: His first two votes were based on the criteria of "interesting wagons" which I don't like but whatever.
Conqueror: Your promised thoughts on Bard were just "I dunno lol".
Dormio needs to expand on his one-liners!
So do you! Seeing as the only time you don't use them seems to be when you're defending yourself.
Uh, I had some more stuff to say to you but I forgot. I'll make another post when I remember.
PX: Hi. You are forever scum. Anyway.
There's your first vote which was "What he said ##Vote".
#179 says nothing pretty much and has an unvote thrown in for kicks.
He says in #195 that Shadoweh's entire case on him is "has no content" but does nothing to address nor even denies it.
And his latest post doesn't say much other than "the Conqueror wagon looks legit, let's jump on it".
##Unvote
##Vote PX
Also, I get back from uni tomorrow right as the day ends.
:/
-
@Dormio: Oh you. Not that it will matter with my flip. I don't have anything to say on Bard anyway.
I don't see any counterwagons taking off by the end of the day. Super happy fun claim time coming in a moment or in ~6 hours, depending on how lazy I am.
-
You might as well claim now. I can already guess what your power is because you sound like you're getting ready for a massive trolling.
-
Hourai:
Wat? You wanna play the game?
Similar to PX, hasn't really said much.
My head hurts now, and I have an assignment due friday that I haven't started.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Nothing at all?
Also, I don't really like the "Oh, I'm dead so let's do nothing" attitude.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:/
-
Nothing at all?
Also, I don't really like the "Oh, I'm dead so let's do nothing" attitude.
I've said everything I could say already.
-
Also considering the amount of people who don't exist and people who might not be here for deadline, if you want it to matter 6 hours will be too late.
-
The oversized moon must have made everyone inaba-mad because the strangeness from everyone doesn't seem to be subsiding.
Conqueror, while you have stepped up somewhat, I still have a few questions to ask. While you have explained more in depth about why exactly you went for capt.h's case for so long, it still boils down mostly to gut because multiple people have had been inactive and altogether unhelpful then, and you have ordered your scum order by arbitrary means. An example is when you said that you thought that Hanged Hourai's hit-and-run style was better than Serela's active lurking and ugly vote patterns, but Hanged Hourai has had active lurking and ugly vote patterns too, so what's the distinction? Similar non-explanations occur when you rank capt.h higher than people like PX and Dormio; you merely speak of what exactly they did, which is pretty fair, but at the end you just prefer one over the other. For example;
PX, in my opinion, was derp for jumping on capt.h with a vote immediately after I did, and while I found his vote and actions to be unpleasant, I did not feel it warranted a vote. Meanwhile, capt. h was generally being avoidant and unhelpful with his posts (and as far as I can remember, he later admitted as such!). I felt this to be more actively scummy.
Why didn't it not warrant a vote; what is the distinguishing factor between PX having unpleasant vote and actions and capt.h being avoidant and unhelpful? Both halves of the sentence seem equally alike. This combined with being late on the explanations make the above quite unconvincing.
Also, another thing I find creepy about your opinions on everyone else is that you seem to be talking in abstractions for the most part instead of what they are actually doing. In this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583355.html#msg583355) and this one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583395.html#msg583395) you talk about labels like content, usefulness, stances and lack thereof a lot, but you don't really go deep into what they are actually saying with the minor exception of criticizing Bardiche's change of vote and things in relation to yourself {e.g UK's supposedly poor jump on you etc.). Gives it an air of convincing superficiality which I don't like.
---
Briefly, I'm not convinced by huhwhat's reasons for his preference of Hourai over Serela (e.g I don't think Serela has been contributing more than Hourai). Shadoweh is being silly by asking huhwhat for why he had cleared PX when he hasn't said anything at all about why he himself has been clearing Conqueror, and I don't appreciate the angle he has been going regarding his case. Dormio to me seems to be trying his best and has had the bravery to try and pick things (though somewhat unsubstantial) from people that people are not touching today (e.g Kilga). Serela's post did not make sense at all. Still going for a Conqueror lynch short of a game-breaking claim due to the above being too little too late.
-
Alright, whatever, I'm tired anyways. Being day 1 lynch target as town twice in a row is no fun. :wat: Okay, claim.
Zombies? Well, looks like someone went ahead and used the nuclear option on the rest of us. Now I have to hang out with you scraggly lot. Bunch of freebooters.
I am the town Lawyer. Due to Serp's inability to distinguish senators from lawyers, by entering a command in the thread I can filibuster a player within the last 24 hours of the day, specifically the player with the most votes (and if there is a tie, the player who was most recently voted up to the highest total). At that point, the votecount will freeze, and one of two things will happen. If the player is town, his role PM is revealed in-thread and the day ends in no-lynch. If the player is scum, the player is lynched. Regardless of the result I commit harakiri and die, so I won't be bothering you all anymore.
Basically, if we handle this correctly, we can either have a confirmed townie or a confirmed scum kill. I think we should vote up the scummiest person who is not me (as I will die and flip in any case). My vote is on NeoSerela.
-
@Affinity: We can discuss the specific ordering of my votes until the cows come home but I can't really give you another explanation except "gut" and "that's the way I felt at the time." Sorry. :ohdear:
Anyway, I'm resigned to being the D1 lynch, so please read the above post.
-
Uhm. Well damn. That's not.. that's pretty damn good. NeoSerela sounds like he escaped from an asylum so I could get behind that. I could also get behind PX or huh what or Hanged Hourai.
-
Clarifying that only a plurality of votes is needed.
-
In any case, I was hoping for some town discussion on the target. I'll filibuster a few hours before deadline because that gives you people enough time to switch over and hammer me if you don't believe my claim.
-
Okay, where was I? I honestly forget most of the things I've been wanting to address, but here goes.
- Conqueror is still slowly seeming better to me, but a lot of his recent opinions have boiled down to one-liners. The lack of an apparent scum counter-wagon still strikes me as odd, especially considering how the Shadoweh wagon has suddenly died out. Not ready to clear him yet, but I am significantly less sure of him when compared to my stance on Hourai now.
- As Conqueror is slowly lowering his spot on my suspicions list, PX is increasing for his blatant wagon hop backed by nothing original of note. Most of the grace I was giving him regarding his vote-switch was because he had shown stronger conviction than Conqueror already and because I expected him to continue his train of thought later, but his recent post makes his hop off of capt. h look a lot worse than Conq's and has been enough to flip around my opinion on him.
- Conqueror's claim is weird. My paranoid side tells me that if we want to shift our votes to test his ability, we should do it in some sort of way that we know there's no risk of scum!Conq tricking us into a screwed up lynch out of disorder. As for the target, I would of course prefer Hourai, but if that won't work I would easily take PX as well, or maybe even Shadoweh. Not feeling that Serela as the best choice since I've been getting VanillaMafia!Serela vibes from him up until now and not many others have been chasing him. A polarizing player would be more ideal, I believe. (I also think Hourai's content has been worse than Serela's, even if Serela's has been lackluster.)
I'm around for a bit, so if I missed any questions people have for me they should probably point them out now.
-
- Conqueror's claim is weird. My paranoid side tells me that if we want to shift our votes to test his ability, we should do it in some sort of way that we know there's no risk of scum!Conq tricking us into a screwed up lynch out of disorder. As for the target, I would of course prefer Hourai, but if that won't work I would easily take PX as well, or maybe even Shadoweh. Not feeling that Serela as the best choice since I've been getting VanillaMafia!Serela vibes from him up until now and not many others have been chasing him. A polarizing player would be more ideal, I believe. (I also think Hourai's content has been worse than Serela's, even if Serela's has been lackluster.)
I would be up for any of those choices as well, although what really matters is what the majority of the town decides, which is why I posted this now. Also, like I said, we only need a plurality. Once we reach a decision and get a person up to the desired threshold (probably something like 4 or 5 votes) all voting should freeze and any votes after that would be marked with scum intent. All votes should thus be marked with L-? tags, and everybody should turn on their new reply notifications if they've turned them off. I should be around to enact a filibuster starting at least 6 hours before deadline.
-
Basically we're going to have a double flip D1. :V
I fully expect people to analyze this latter wagon as well.
-
It would be amusing to go through another game as Super Townie Confirmed 5000.
Ultimately I think PX is the other person we should flip. If Conqueror is already going to die, Affinity's suspicions about me in his direction will be cleared up and his wagon can be looked over. If PX is flipped it will provide more information on huh what as well as anyone that cleared him as posting content today. He's also been described as having an anti-town playstyle and he would likely be a later lynch anyways.
From an informational basis I'm not sure NeoSerela or Hourai are as good.
-
What about seeing one of the lurkers pseudo-flip?
I dunno.
A check on PX/Hourai/Shadoweh is just as good.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
-
The problem with having a lurker psuedo-flip is that there's no information to really go off of from it.
-
Serp: Sorry if I'm not supposed to be posting but I think Kitten should have already told you to switch me in for now and prepare a repalcement for us.
This post was made back at the time of @240, so stuff will be repeated/outdated.
Pesco writing up the post here.
The first thing that's been bothering the hell out of me: Zak's vote. Shit case blah blah blah. I really wonder what Zak is trying to do by agreeing with nonsense on a guy that hadn't even posted yet. Simple explanation if he was scum is that he sees potential easy lynch and tries to get a wagon out of it. The content of the post says he read the game, but the vote tells otherwise. I don't see any good reason for this and it's a shoddy gambit I don't believe Zak would do.
In the context of ED1, PX's vote is a null and it seems Conq understood that too. It had potential to stir discussion. PX's 179 is a terrible post. All I remember is that it would make me want to lynch him if I had suspicion on him from before, this is pretty much what Shadoweh is doing. But on that note, I want to hear Shadoweh list the individual merits of PX's actions. The progression is what I'm interested in here.
Conq looks derp. There was nothing wrong with his vote at the time he made it. With all the hate he's been getting and some poor responding, it's easy to corner him into thinking fucked if I do, fucked if I don't. Find evidence then catch scum, not the other way round right? So could you guys who were on him chronologically summarize your case on him for me and my cat.
HW backed off, but I'm suspect of it given how much of a driving force behind all the 'scummy' things that Conq did was in response to HW. The switch to Hourai for Zak-bashing is much weaker than keeping the vote on Conq imo because Zak was weird and did deserve to be called for it. Hourai snapvoting Zak is not an unreasonable action (I would be voting Zak too, but Kitten has the final say on the vote).
Fear not, for Hourai has his own questionable actions that could have made HW's vote better, had he thought of it. I don't see anything wrong with his first serious vote (on HW). What comes after is the dodgy stuff. HW is apparently forgotten in his next big post. Assuming that the HW vote was a weak starting point, the sudden attention turned on Zak is fine by what I've said above. But the fact that Hourai responded to UK about the HW vote reads to me that it was something he could have pursued. Catch up to more presently, this Dormio vote is a park, a prod vote that is not going to achieve anything.
Out of the people I've mentioned here I want to vote Hourai and vig Zak.
Addendum: The bus I'm driving was not the one Kitten got hit by.
I've only skimmed the more recent stuff so short points from here on.
Shadoweh: You can judge things by feelings if you want, but it's not going to convince people much. I do it a lot and nobody ever listens to my FPMH :V. Being lazy is anti-town, not scummy. If you ignore K4u's current condition, she comes across as lazy but still town for the quality posts she puts out. I'm still lenient on reading you negatively for these playstyle blips because you are technically a new player without enough experience. I will expect you to understand what I'm saying here and you'll step up to the caliber of what you did last game.
Dormio: The guy's a transparent derp. Sorry people, but that's just how Dormio plays and the reason is that's the kind of guy he is in DotS. Dormio will post the first thing that comes to mind, realise it was stupid afterwards and then flounder in trying to correct himself. I have no intention of lynching him for bad play.
Previous read on Conq still holds here.
Haven't been able to get down a time to reread PX and Shadoweh because you people post way too much.
Unmentioned people are either forgettable or not worth pursuing today.
##Vote Hourai
-
After thinking things over further, I definitely support a PX flip. In the scenario where Conqueror is telling the truth and is town, then PX would be the most likely lynch for tomorrow due to the circumstances of his wagon hop. The information is a bonus as well.
When exactly are we expected to switch our votes to reflect Conqueror's ability?
Hi Pesco. What makes you think that Zak would believe people would jump on a wagon of his when his case revolves entirely around a past game? I don't think scum would expect that ever.
-
Well, if Shadoweh, Conqueror, Pesco4u, and huh what all switch to PX we have 5 votes which would be a majority for Conqueror's pseudo-flip.
-
Hi Pesco. What makes you think that Zak would believe people would jump on a wagon of his when his case revolves entirely around a past game? I don't think scum would expect that ever.
I can't answer for why he'd do that, I can only discern that he didn't check the facts and followed a bullshit case.
-
Dormio: I'm pretty sure the way he's wording it, Conqueror's power will end the day, so we don't want to use it like, right now.
Pesco4u: Did you read Conqueror's roleclaim? What do you think of it and what should we do with it?
-
I still think the same as before in terms of whether or not to lynch him. If he's claimed and can prove it right away, then let him do it.
-
I can do it right away, but it ends the day, so I'd rather do it within 6 hours or so of day end. Also because most of town is asleep and hasn't woken up yet.
-
The question is will YOU be awake at the time to activate it? It costs us nothing to set up the votes beforehand.
-
I'll be around.
-
EBWOP: Don't go around hammering people before I get back though. >_>
-
Well, firstly I want to apologize for not existing. Wanted to write something on Conqueror but everyone who had their votes on him seemed to come up with words that would sound a lot better than mine. It looks like I have to get used to a lashing if I want to play mafia here.
Conqueror's claim should to be tested now, since I (or we) don't really want to go into night where the scum now know of the role of a town.
Apparently disregarding this thread for a while is a bad idea as well since there's great wall of texts to skim through. Hourai's nasty remarks bite at me the most and I don't really like how he dealt with people who were against him. However, considering conqueror's power in play, either Affinity or Kilga are the first people I would like to know the alignment of, even though they are very likely to be town.
But when I consider Conqueror's role, the best way to get it over with is to get on a wagon (there doesn't seem to be any disadvantage if a wrong target is chosen, but it would hurt if he is really lying). But if he is really telling the truth, I don't really want someone with useful powers like that to go into the night.
Since there is still many hours to go, I'm going to consider Conqueror is going to use his powers and wait and see what more people has to say.
-
The votes need to be in place for Conq to use his power.
I don't care if your thoughts on Conq don't sound as good. Post it and we'll see.
-
Personally, I would go for a Serela flip. PX, Caedo, Hourai, and capt.h all sport at least some sort of spirit behind their wayward accusations and have all dared to do things that might have been frowned upon, but I think Serela has been the most apathetic in that he hasn't done anything out of the ordinary (e.g half-hearted thing on Conqueror, going to Zakeri, no backup for Conqueror in his latest post etc.). Colt might also be an option.
As a backup in case this is some kind of brilliant scum ploy to induce a no lynch for day one, I would like Conqueror to set a deadline to use the power. (e.g 2 hours before deadline, etc.) If not Conqueror will be lynched. Also, could the mod tell us how much time there is left?
-
2 hours before deadline sounds fine.
-
Mod went to sleep an hour or so ago. Should be more than 16 hours left according to the last count.
-
Colt, I'm going to start calling you the spiritual successor of Doll. Don't consider people on whether they were nice or mean, take a look at who is playing and tell me who you think is scum please.
Pesco 4u: I should have just said FPMH told me Conqueror is town. It can't have gone over worse. It's hard to put feelings into words on someone and address everything someone can ask about it without quoting and addressing all their posts. I will try to address PX's posts in order in a short and concise manner to show the progression.
Post #64 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581597.html#msg581597): PX does blatant bandwagon hop onto newbie.
Post #90 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581651.html#msg581651): Shadoweh votes PX for idiot newbie bandwagon and waits for PX to respond.
Post #103 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581681.html#msg581681): PX bashes newbie for being scared of Schezo and having terrible reasons for a ED1 vote. This is like shooting fish in a barrel. Also says 'Not to mention all this Bardiche and co. stuff' which he does not mention.
Post #179 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582341.html#msg582341): This post makes me angry. Thinks I'm parking a vote. Says nothing useful about anyone. Unvotes and hides.
Post #195 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582370.html#msg582370) and a few one liners: Weird conversation with Kilga and UK that amounts to nothing. Clearly understands what my case is.
Post #286 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583314.html#msg583314): Now that I look closer, he only gives opinions on who he thinks is town. Doesn't actually give an opinion on Conqueror, just says the wagon is legitimate. Other people's reasons are good enough? Blatantly parks vote on Conqueror.
To summarize: Bad bandwagon hop on newbie followed by thinking the first reasons of the newbie's obviously bad case are enough to declare him ANTI-TOWN and not comment on five pages of other, followed by throwing voting away entirely, followed by being able to explain my case to other people without addressing it instead of asking them questions that matter, followed by a post with no scumhunting in which he does a bad bandwagon hop. It's like his terrible play has come full circle.
(Is the summary without the post links clear enough? I'd rather just make those.)
The fact that Affinity is still trying to clear PX for this and downplaying everything Conqueror does is blowing my mind. I'm starting to believe he should be on the list of possible flips. Colt? Really? We can get you more of your precious information and you want to use it to either lynch someone linked to noone or cop-clear COLT?
-
Sure it's pretty terrible play, but I'm not seeing the scummy.
-
Are you talking about PX or Affinity? I'm probably just frustrated with Affinity by now. Logically PX is still the best choice.
-
PX is what I'll call derp for now. And what's bothering you about Affinity?
-
I don't like his case on Conqueror. It's slowly turned from something definite to him acknowledging that Conqueror's newer posts are better but his flip is too important to not lynch him. I don't like that he is giving PX clears for bad lynchable posts. Not because PX is derp, he has been arguing PX's posts were good. I don't like how he acknowledged huh what's posts weren't good but "huhwhat is adept enough for me to overlook his transgressions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582815.html#msg582815)" because that reads to me like huh what got a clear because huh what is a better player. Obviously I don't like his suggestion that we use this lynch-or-confirm-townie power on Colt. There's alot I don't like.
-
Mrr. I'm going to go sleep on it. I'll be around a few hours before the deadline and if something goes crazah I'll be here again about an hour before.
-
First of all, Colt is likely going to be a liability to us later on in the game; from the trend of the previous games, newbies have been almost unreadable and indistinguishable from town or scum. Getting rid of such a liability now (sorry to Colt for being so upfront) is to me acceptable, especially when Colt's death won't exactly be at stake.
As for Conqueror, his newer posts are better; there is nothing I can do about that but analyze it as far as possible and go as much as I can go by on D1. There is surely going to be a random component to D1 lynches, and thus the information the flip gives us is sometimes more important than the flip itself. Why is this bad?
As for huhwhat, I liked his points against you here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582621.html#msg582621) and I have said that I liked some of his specific content here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582815.html#msg582815) but found his Hourai wagon at that time deplorable. I even discussed huhwhat's two sides with you here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583158.html#msg583158) Please do not simplify my stance with one sentence.
As for PX, here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581863.html#msg581863) is where I have clarified to you about my opinions on PX, which you have never answered. Criticizing me despite of that for what I think of PX without referring to what I said is quite awkward, especially when you have stubborn refused any request to explain your defense of Conqueror the entire game (and this despite of his situation now).
-
I would rather see Serela get filibustered than PX mostly because I think Serela is more likely to be scum but also because, in the event we make a mistake, I think Serela is less likely to be a power role that wants to keep hidden than PX.
Since I have work and then more work today (who knew 1.5 jobs would be so demanding and tiring???) I'll even change now because I tend not to get much Mafia think time at either of them.
##Unvote: Conqueror
##Vote: NeoSerela
-
Shadoweh: I like how you want me to get opinions on others that you haven't even said anything about. Other than in the RVS you haven't mentioned Kilga, aside from some useless banter and answering questions, which is all you've done to UK too. I think Affinity is fine for now. huh what looks a little strange for pushing Bard so much but I don't think he's that bad when he's run around with ideas and seems to be trying. Affinity pointed out you still haven't answered some questions when you are content making your own and not really scumhunting.
Maybe because Conqueror said he was going to claim or because Shadoweh felt that this game has sparse activity but this rolefish (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583444.html#msg583444) looked wierd. Rolefishing is bad dood.
I'm willing to believe what Pesco said about how Dormio plays because that's exactly what he did last game. Being bold enough to bring up points that would get scrutiny shows town intent for now.
Conqueror in general has just been wishy washy and not placing his vote anywhere between PX and capt. H plus making points that could have been made a lot earlier just give an air of backtracking. His more recent posts however have townie air about them and he has been redeeming himself with them to look better. Although, paranoia tells me his claim is hard to believe but I'll accept it for now.
PX doesn't look that bad to me because in just about every game I've played with him, that's about what he does. He has however been showing conviction in his posts, even if that 179 isn't very good.
Hourai: Even though he seems to have drive behind what he's doing, it's all very shady. I doubt you all will get on his wagon by the end of the day.
NeoS: is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. The way he seems to be tied with a lot of people makes him a good candidate for what I would be willing to jump on, coupled with the fact he hasn't said anything noteworthy in a while and his latest big post may as well have not even been there. Just the fact that he's tied with so many people makes him what I would think is a good information lynch.
##Unvote:
##Vote: NeoSerela
-
So I guess we're putting the pseudo-lynch on NeoSerela?
I guess I'll change my vote before I forget and go to sleep.
##Unvote
##Vote NeoSerela
Conqueror is now at 3 votes.
My vote pushes NeoSerela to 4.
That should be enough for Conqueror's ability, right?
-
Not saying use it now or anything.
Just the whole freeze votes for now, Conqueror uses ability later, if Conqueror doesn't use it 2 hours before deadline, swap to Conqueror thing.
-
Let's test out that claim Conquerer. I'll be missing until a few hours before deadline, and I know my flip won't help scum.
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
Serela L-5
Hourai L-6
PX L-8
-
PX: what in the
Dormio: Do you agree with Serela being the best choice for a pseudolynch, or are you just going along with the flow because it's easy? If the former, why?
Schezo: I would suggest thinking in terms of the pseudolynch instead of a normal lynch at this point, because it would be madness to not take advantage of a second risk-free flip when we're getting Conqueror's flip for free (or it turns out he's lying, the consequences of which should be obvious). Hourai is not yet out of the realm of possibility: if you would rather see his pseudolynch, vote for him.
-
Affinity: I think you're missing a point about this filibuster thing Affinity. It's not just a vig shot. We should use it on someone who is both suspicious in case they are scum and will be able to take advantage of being cleared if they are town. That's why Colt is a bad choice. I don't know if he shares certain hammering tendencies yet with the other lurknewb this happened to.
I've tried to explain to you my feelings about Conqueror repeatedly. You haven't liked my answers but going as far as to say I haven't tried is silly. Saying There Can Be Only One Wagon is also weird. I can't really continue this argument against you until tomorrow after Conqueror flips though.
Kilgamayan: Why is NeoSerela more likely to be scum then PX?
-
PX has done close to nothing that I felt I couldn't attribute to someone that simply doesn't have much of an idea as to what they're doing. He could be scum or he could just be new and/or clueless. His play reminds me a lot of zwlda's play in the last game I played, where he pops in on occasion and seems to just plain miss a lot of things.
Meanwhile, Serela has:
- Overreacted to Bard's ED1 vote for him. That whole post of his screamed of someone trying too hard.
- Backed his Zakeri vote with what boils down to "I don't know, I just can't see TownZak doing this" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582064.html#msg582064) which is a rather dubious at best statement in how general it is. I address it here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582332.html#msg582332) and he never deigns to respond to that post that I can see in either of his posts since.
- Posted a very large piece that has a lot of indecisiveness and little in the way of solid opinions. It is largely faux content from what I could tell and there is a good deal of fluff thrown in about various irrelevant things.
All of these things, to me, are scummy. I'm certainly not ruling out the possibility of ScumPX, but I'm far more confident in what I've seen of Serela than PX.
-
VOTECOUNT - End of the Beginning Edition
NeoSerela (4) - Conquerer, Kilgamayan, Schezo, Dormio, Bardiche
Hanged Hourai (3) - huh what, capt. h, Pesco
Conqueror (2) - Affinity, UncertainKitten, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what, NeoSerela
huh what (2) - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
PX (1) - PX, Dormio, Shadoweh
Dormio (1) - Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Zakeri (1) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
Shadoweh (0) - Schezo, Dormio, capt. h
UncertainKitten (0) - Bardiche
capt. h (0) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. Less than 8 hours remain in the day.
-
Nope, I've not missed the point about this thing. What I think is that whoever would be cleared by this ability would be part of the WIFOM games in the night and a choice for scum NK. There is no advantage for any particular person being cleared in my opinion. Furthermore, already scummy people can be divined on future days through flips and stuff like that, while newbies like Dormio and Colt seem hardest to decide between derptown or derpscum due to the lack of content in their posts. They are the most painful people to deal with since scum will not NK them and town will have to waste a day lynching them, and if any of them are left in LyLO, it might lead to some serious liabilities for town. That's why I feel that these people are the best candidates for Conq's power, but since no one seems to be considering the possibility I'm fine with going with Serela.
No, claiming that you know that Conqueror is town due to his action from the past game and gut doesn't count. (I'm sure PX, Schezo, capt.h, huhwhat all agree with me) Purposely avoiding questions on this throughout the day doesn't count either.
Also, why are you wearing the PX case like a giant golden badge when Kilga has already said long before that he finds PX's play more derp than scummy? Why all this pressure on people who don't seem to be looking at huhwhat when they have answered you a long (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581863.html#msg581863) time (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583282.html#msg583282) ago? In light of this, it's extremely irritating to see people's refusal to adopt the PX case act as your primary reason for things like your huhwhat case and accusations against others like Schezo and stuff (as I pointed out here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582815.html#msg582815))when you have not said anything equivalent to our words regarding Conqueror the entire D1. It's one-sided and hypocritical and worthy of somewhat further scrutiny tomorrow.
-
Schezo if you want to clear Dormio, don't just say that you agree with me because you are not me. And you haven't played enough DotS to be making that kind of call.
Reread Neo in iso and I don't object to him being called useless. His posts have this kind of frothy-ness to them according to K4u.
(7:57:18 AM) Kitten4u: I think my top picks are Neo and PX
(7:57:30 AM) Pesco: hmm
(7:57:39 AM) Pesco: I need to see what's PX's new posts
(7:57:53 AM) Kitten4u: He doesn't really say anything
(7:57:53 AM) Pesco: How did Neo come into suspicion?
(7:58:03 AM) Kitten4u: General post ew
She finds him kinda scummy, I'm kinda unsure. All in all, thumbs up for the flibuster to sort him out.
-
Conqueror, so I am as unreadable as ever? You yell this each game, I sadfaze. :( As for my vote switching away from UK, it's because there's no one who shares my belief that she deserves a vote, and no one is interested in the handwave that "it's not worth my time". By now Huh What is a far more interesting and productive way of using my vote, as he certainly is racking up Scum Points as far as I'm concerned.
Speaking of, I am prepared to take Conq's claim at face value - if it's a scum ploy, then the merits do not outweigh the immediate risk of it all and so it's cools by me to get a "safe" lynch for the day.
My preferred target is, of course, Huh What. Between my last post and now, nothing has changed to ameliorate my opinion of him, and it remains to be at a quite low level. His explanation for his early actions may be somewhat adequate, but it lacks motivation. I still find the explanation that "I believed you were honestly thinking you could get Serela lynched by voting him while everyone's in RVS mode" (paraphrased) is a major stretch of the imagination and an absurd logic.
That your defence is "I derped" isn't too damnable, except you do this with everything. When Kilgamayan raises a point about your inattentiveness (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583285.html#msg583285), you explain you were derp. Defences like presented here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583233.html#msg583233) are generally poor, in that it's already clear it's your opinion. And then you add an extra clause that boils down to, "But I could be wrong :V".
Fascinating, but we already know no one's infallible in this game! There's also your sudden "lowering of suspicion" for Conqueror coinciding with the time he roleclaims, and yet you still stubbornly throw in an idea it could all be a scum gambit! Gasp, shock! If he's lying it'd get him lynched and implicate scum buddies, it's really not a worthwhile trick and you not only entertaining the idea but also throwing it out in the open feels like an attempt to "test the waters", so to speak, for a Conq lynch today to halt his ability.
I'd prefer Huh What be lynched today, but if I can't get people to get on board with me to my sunset, I guess I'll have to board someone else's.
Of the three cases presented today, I feel that the Conq case warrants no votes. That leaves PX and NeoSerela.
To me, PX is nowhere near "not scum". Particularly this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583314.html#msg583314) reads oddly, as he praises the Conqueror wagon for being legitimate due to people finding original reasons to jump on him, but then says "I agree with the Conq wagon" and jumps on like a bandwagon hop. :( This makes me sadfaze.
The rest of PX's posts express little desire to play and much rage about deleted posts so I don't know about that. If PX doesn't feel like playing, I'd like to ask him to fix that attitude. It's not something I would lynch for, and one point of hypocrisy doesn't raise my heckles so much I want to use a lynch on it.
NeoSerela's voting patterns however evidence of thoughtlessness and easy stances. Take, for example, the first vote he makes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581653.html#msg581653), which is for Conq on account that "capt h is an easy vote target", despite never elucidating how this is so? It assumes that all of town is easily manipulated, which is simply not true. That he jumps to Zakeri on an equally thoughtless basis just evidences a lack of effort, and contradicts himself directly; after all, he voted Conq for taking an easy stance, but voting Zakeri was also an easy stance at the time.
NeoSerela's input thus far amounts to absolutely nothing. Lots of derping it up hard by being thoughtless.
However, there is absolutely no support for NeoSerela that I can gather, and I just can't see how it could be scum motivated to kick open such open doors. It's more laziness, and laziness of such a level I cannot quite consider it immediately scummy. I'd prefer a PX lynch over a Serela lynch simply because PX declared lack of motivation to play, whereas Serela can still make good on the lacking content and major derpage of this Day.
Alright, I dislike both trains then. I can't convince people to last-minute switch to Huh What, I suppose?
-
Join the lynch for Hourai then.
-
And then I miss the fact there's a case on Hourai and ignore it blindly. >_>
Huh, Hourai raised no heckles with me but on a re-read I realise he also hasn't actually done much beyond ask for more opinions from people while providing few of his own. Interesting is that Hourai absolutely touches nothing but his case on Zakeri and one on Dormio that basically comes off as a prod for more opinion and no real indication of scumminess.
Uh, yeah, I'm reading Hourai and not getting any opinions there.
Since my vote on Huh What is useless... ##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Hourai
I'd rather lend it any use and lynch Hourai, whose participation is worse than Serela and PX. To clarify: Serela and PX read as heavy cases of derp and lolwut to me, whereas Hourai doesn't register due to not actually taking any stances of any strength.
That ties Hourai and Serela.
-
Nope, I've not missed the point about this thing. What I think is that whoever would be cleared by this ability would be part of the WIFOM games in the night and a choice for scum NK. There is no advantage for any particular person being cleared in my opinion. Furthermore, already scummy people can be divined on future days through flips and stuff like that, while newbies like Dormio and Colt seem hardest to decide between derptown or derpscum due to the lack of content in their posts. They are the most painful people to deal with since scum will not NK them and town will have to waste a day lynching them, and if any of them are left in LyLO, it might lead to some serious liabilities for town. That's why I feel that these people are the best candidates for Conq's power, but since no one seems to be considering the possibility I'm fine with going with Serela.
Of course the cleared person is going to be a NK target if they're not scum. Guessing if they'll actually do it or shoot someone less likely to be protected is someone else's WIFOM problem. I think it's false to say there could be no advantage to someone useful being confirmed on Day 1. The rest of this quote appears to be saying that somehow newbies are the enemy because they're hard to read. Older, more experienced players are also harder to read because they're better at the game and less likely to make mistakes as scum. You want to tell which newbie is town? Watch which one gets picked as the only unopposed wagon for Day 1. Watch for the one that gets targetted non-stop by confirmed scum. Watch for the one that employs scummy, not just bad, behaviour. That actively lurks and never gives his own opinion. That uses knowledge a player just shouldn't have. You don't HAVE to lynch all the newbies. This idea is everything that is wrong with MotK Town.
I agree with Kilga's assessment between the two and it's in line with what most players have expressed about PX.
Bardiche: If Serela flips town he won't be lynched and he'll get lots of chances to make up for having said absolutely nothing today. Unless Scum kill him but yknow. I have no problems with huh what but no one else buys that case. I'm not sure if I like the case from Hourai taking Zak's bait more then Serela's insane rambling of nothing.
I think Zak's close to being modkilled. Sadface.
-
EBWOM: I think I forgot to add 'these are newbie scummy traits' somewhere in that rant right after "gets targetted non-stop by confirmed scum."
-
Okay I read through the everything again and dear god my post from last night looks terrible. Which pretty much everyone agrees on. There's a reason I don't like D1, and it being ridiculously huge this game isn't helping.
Okay so Conq's claim, well, yeah. There's about 6 hours left in the day, and that's when he said he was gonna filibuster, right? Well, considering I have a good amount of influence over whether the target is me or Hourai right now, and the fact that I need to go move more of my stuff in like right now (aka need to leave), I'm just going to concentrate on that for the moment. Concentrating on any more would probably make this post devolve into more insane rambling like my last post anyway. What the hell is with that paragraph about a puppet show, making big posts at 11 at night is a no-no.
Anyway, perfectly fine with Hourai being targetted for the filibuster, all I can see is Hourai being Hourai that I can't read, so sure. I'd prefer PX but it doesn't look like it's happening. In comparison, me being targetted will degrade me to a confirmed almost-vanilla townie who honestly might not end up being a useful member of town no matter how hard I try.
...then again, other then the cool power Hourai may or may not have, confirming him as town isn't really much different I guess! Except, he might be scum, while I know I'm not, so that makes him the better choice for me to make anyway. Unless I end up getting lynched in the future and wasting one of town's lynches... bleh, whatever.
##Unvote ##Vote:Hourai
Unless someone has some totally convincing reason for me to change my vote to myself (:V) by the time the Conq uses his filibuster. Like maybe a roleclaim from Hourai. I would really like that, actually. Hourai, we're likely about to find out your role anyway, so it'd be cool for you to claim it and maybe make us change our minds.
-
Less bullshit waffle in your post kthnx. There are more than enough walls without you adding senseless rambling to a post.
Now if you'd pay attention to the votes, you just put Hourai one ahead.
-
So it'd be really cool if Hourai fullclaimed but you don't need to? I don't think either of you should or even have to, but that's just silly.
##Unvote
##Vote NeoSerela
-
Unofficial Votecount with ~ 5 hours left, Meaning end of the day in about 3 hours.
NeoSerela (5) - Conquerer, Kilgamayan, Schezo, Dormio, Shadoweh
Hanged Hourai (5) - huh what, capt. h, Pesco, Bardiche, NeoSerela
Conqueror (2) - Affinity, UncertainKitten
PX (1) - PX
Dormio (1) - Hanged Hourai
Schezo (1) - Zakeri
Not Voting: Colt
9 required to lynch, so the highest we want to bring someone up is about 7. If one of you accidentally hammers I will rage.
At this point NeoSerela would be the target, since he was most recently brought up to 5.
-
Dormio: Do you agree with Serela being the best choice for a pseudolynch, or are you just going along with the flow because it's easy? If the former, why?
Well, I don't think that NeoSerela is a bad choice for the pseudo-lynch.
And it looks like everybody else would prefer to pseudo-lynch NeoSerela rather than PX.
Also, I forgot that I could be online this morning and once I leave for uni, I won't be back until after the day ends.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Or apparently Hourai now.
I don't think that we should take the votes much higher, instead unvoting the person that we don't want.
-
If I unvote and revote, that'll change the target to Hourai?
-
If I unvote and revote, that'll change the target to Hourai?
Yes.
-
Pesco:But putting him ahead was kind of the point ):
Shadoweh:Oh, uh, I guess I didn't think about that. My reasoning behind him needing to claim at all was maybe it'd change our minds (Hence why people usually roleclaim if they're about to be lynched, ala Conqueror), and yeah.
If anyone wants me to claim, I'll go right ahead. Actually, seeing as we're tied again, and Conq could be coming in any minute with his filibuster, might as well.
I am the Townie Radio Operator. During confirmation phase I may pass one or both of my handheld radio sets to someone else anonymously. With them, messages may be sent between the two holders; I cannot send messages if I do not actually keep a handset. However, I still recieve all the messages that were sent because I have the reciever station.
I passed them both to two different people by the thought that I would obtain the most information from my role in that manner, and that the people I sent them to would probably be more productive with eachother then they'd be with me (If they were both town, at least).
I hope this doesn't discourage the people I gave them to from using them with eachother as they would have previously, although it probably will if I'm not targetted by the filibuster and flipped as town. I'm not saying WHO they are for obvious reasons, and it'd be cool if they didn't claim so unless there's a good reason, like maybe people not wanting to have me as the filibuster target if they confirm my claim.
If Conq is scum trying to mess up D1 lynch and also get two people to claim then I will giggle madly and congratulate scum, but I believe his claim, so whatever. And my power isn't really that hurtful to town to have known anyway.
-
Anyone care who Neo gave the messaging capabilities to?
-
VOTECOUNT - A Few Minutes Later Than Intended Edition
NeoSerela (5) - Conquerer, Kilgamayan, Schezo, Dormio, Shadoweh, Bardiche (L-4)
Hanged Hourai (5) - huh what, capt. h, Pesco, Bardiche, NeoSerela (L-4)
Conqueror (2) - Affinity, UncertainKitten, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what, NeoSerela
PX (1) - PX, Dormio, Shadoweh
Dormio (1) - Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
huh what (0) - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
Zakeri (0) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (0) - Schezo, Dormio, capt. h
UncertainKitten (0) - Bardiche
capt. h (0) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. Just under four hours remain in the day.
-
Hourai's my preferred lynch, so getting this cleared up.
##Unvote
##Vote Hourai
-
Anyone care who Neo gave the messaging capabilities to?
I care that we don't know, because scum doesn't need to know.
I find it odd that Serela would bemoan the uselessness of such a power once it's public because knowing there's a neighbor creator doesn't really change the effectiveness of the neighbors themselves once they're alerady set.
-
I'm looking for provability of his claim by asking if they should come out. And Neo is too derp to understand the potential of a role :V.
-
Townie Twitchy Chemist
Using my scientific knowledge, I can redirect all night actions targeting a person to another. My twichyness makes me extra cautious, so if I?m targeted for a NK, then I automatically target myself and all actions that I get, including NK, are redirected to the person I originally chose to take the actions.
In essence, I'm bulletproof at the expense of another person. Possibly scum.
Why can't I ever be vanilla?
---------------
And I really don't know what to say at this point so I'll just say stuff, then you can ask questions I guess.
I don't like how people are saddened over my thing on Zak. He was confusing town (scummy) and using his vote as a joke (anti-town). Whether it was bait or not, I don't see how I should be grilled over that.
Dormio was being fence-sittingy without vote to back up his words, without saying who was scum. Pressure vote to have him get an opinion on who is scum, and it sorta worked.
huh what, I consider my thing on him to be legit. And he was twisting my actions in an unneeded scummy light.
And I'm saddened at the newbie passes too.
---------------
I'm sorry to say, but this is basically a "not me" vote since I know I'm not scum.
##Unvote
##Vote: NeoSerela
-
Dammit, Serela gave me a headset. And I was ready to vote him because with the way the filibuster worked, I cannot see why anyone would not vote themselves unless they were scum.
His claim is at least confirmable.
This does not confirm Serela as town
Let me finish catching up now.
-
All right. Why the fuck is everyone claiming? Secondly, it's not a full neighboring. We send messages and they are received every 24 hours. Thirdly, we have no idea who each other are. Though my more recent message last night identified myself to my message buddy.
Admittedly, it's kind of a huge pain in the ass to use. It's easier to make an off hand comment in a QT then send PMs to Serp.
As far as I understand, the filibuster either innocent childs a townie OR kills a scum. This kills Conquerer at the same time. So what the hell is the point of all the claims?
-
Oh, right.
##Unvote, Vote HangedHourai
That's L-3.
-
I find it odd that Serela would bemoan the uselessness of such a power once it's public because knowing there's a neighbor creator doesn't really change the effectiveness of the neighbors themselves once they're alerady set.
It does if they aren't sure I'm town, as I stated that I can see all their messages. Although in retrospect, I guess that just means they wouldn't go around revealing any role info they might have if they trusted eachother to be town. But whatever.
Hourai, you don't necessarily have to do not-me voting for this, as if you're town and Conq isn't lying at all, then you WON'T be lynched, and actually become a confirmed townie, so it's not all bad. Of course, there's still the you thinking I might be scum, so I understand.
Hourai's power sounds pretty useful, as he basically can go around redirecting nightkills, AND is essentially bulletproof so scum cannot get rid of him. Making him a confirmed townie so he's impossible to be lynched as well would be cool.
UKninja:Maybe I wouldn't vote myself because I know I'm town and the other person might not be? My power's benefits go on after I die anyway.
UKninja2:It said it revealed the flip of the townie as well, so if Hourai was going to be the choice, we would have known in a little bit anyway. And besides, as with a regular lynch, we still want to try to hit a scum between our two options if we can. My power wasn't anything that's gonna hurt town to be claimed anyway, unlike... almost any other power, really, and I figured Hourai would end up being the choice, so in the end, it hardly ends up mattering. Unless suddenly people start switching to me and Hourai doesn't end up being it.
-
Well, Hourai looks to be the target. If there are no objections, I'll act in approx half an hour.
-
@Mod Votecount just to make sure UK's vote counted.
-
VOTECOUNT - We Deliver Edition
Hanged Hourai (6) - huh what, capt. h, Pesco, Bardiche, NeoSerela, UncertainKitten (L-3)
NeoSerela (6) - Conquerer, Kilgamayan, Schezo, Dormio, Shadoweh, Hanged Hourai, Bardiche (L-3)
Conqueror (1) - Affinity, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what, NeoSerela
PX (1) - PX, Dormio, Shadoweh
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
Dormio (0) - Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
huh what (0) - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
Zakeri (0) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (0) - Schezo, Dormio, capt. h
UncertainKitten (0) - Bardiche
capt. h (0) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. A bit less than two and a half hours remain before the deadline.
-
@Serela: Well, on the one hand, the claims seemed unnecessary given whatever happened, the claim would be revealed. Whether by death or life. On the other, I see now how that could influence a decision strongly.
-
GDI
I might as well say this right now. Neo is lying about his role. That's the second part of my ability, but I didn't want to claim it yet. He somehow knows what it does, but it's the other part of my role.
However, I still recieve all the messages that were sent because I have the reciever station.
I'm countering you on this.
HEY UK, YOU LIKE POKEMON?
-
Me: Serela no one should claim from this flip since we're going to see the role of who we flip anyways.
Serela: AAAHH HERE IS MY ROLE
Hanged Hourai: AHHH HERE'S MINE TOO
UncertainKitten: DON'T REVEAL ROLE STUFF BUT PS HERE'S A ROLE THING I GOT
YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS STOP CLAIMING.
So let me get this straight Serela. You gave a radio to two random people that you didn't know the alignments of so you could spy on them and you think this is useless? I guess one of them was UK. I don't understand how your flip would turn your role vanilla.
Cut by like six people including Hanged Hourai: Uhm. What.
-
Pesco: Sorry if I gave you the wrong vibe, but what I meant about clearing Dormio a bit was that he does bring up stuff, try to fix it and run around while confusing us all. That's what he did last game and I get the feeling that's what he's doing in this one.
Wellll, I want to see if the roleclaim is really believable now. This was also who I preferred earlier but though it wasn't going to happen. It sounds a bit overpowered IMO but let's see.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Hanged Hourai
cut: wait what? Is someone lying? What part is your role Hourai?
-
So...I was talking to you.
Also, I was under the impression that NeoSerela sent out two hand sets, and can't talk to either of us. But he can see all the messages because he has a "receiver station" the messages go through.
@Shadoweh: What I received has NOTHING to do with my role. I feel perfectly comfortable claiming it since it's not specifically relating to me. FURTHER, it confirmed Serela's role, though not his alignment.
So, please to be reading the game, Shadoweh, and not just jumping on "IT'S A CLAIM, OH MY GAWD"
-
NO ONE ELSE VOTE HOURAI!
He's at L-2.
-
Hourai:...o_O What am I lying about, again?
-
EBWOP:Though>Thought
-
I wasn't expecting the game to explode between when I started typing and now!
UK: I think Hourai is claiming he has the receiver station and Serela is lying?
Serela: Uhm, did someone send a message about pokemon?
Schezo: You should probably unvote until we can figure this.. this out.
-
I'm going to be filibustering in about 10 minutes as per agreed earlier, just a note, unless everyone suddenly wants to jump on Neo.
Latest shenanigans are a bit confusing. At this point Hourai is probably the better target. Neo can defend himself tomorrow. :V
-
Major stinking derp.
Well, I typed that up too fast without even making sure it was coherent.
What I mean is that the other part of my role lets me hear the conversation. And what I mean by you lying is that my flavor suggests that you aren't a radio operator, but something different.
-
Ok then?
Serela and Hourai? What's going on there, they have the same ability?
##Unvote:
-
Conqueror: Since this has turned into a counter-claim situation I would ask that you hold off for a half hour.
-
@Schezo
No.
-
Hourai:Then why wouldn't you claim this?
Anyway, I have no idea what Hourai is going on about. I told the truth.
-
##Unvote
##Vote: Hanged Hourai
Schezo took my L-2 post, and Hourai sounds like a better use of the ability now.
-
ZZZ Clear up your claims so I can do my thing. I'll give you 30 more min.
Also, no more votes on Hourai - he's at L-2.
-
Serela: Just a straight answer, was there a message about pokemon or that somehow relates to pokemon (wtf) or not?
-
Shadoweh, I'm sorry but Serp only seems to give me the messages every 24 hours or so.
oh wait no, yeah, I remember seeing that pokemon song now. :V
-
Serela's answers are failing my internal conviction test more then Hourai's. He sounds almost like he's asking someone else for the answers. Since UK has one of the radios though we can try to confirm him this way: What are the radios called and what action is associated with using them?
-
I didn't recieve that. I only have the command to pass them.
Perhaps if I watched the PX&Conqueror show I would know! Guest star, Schezo singing his hit song "PLEASE LYNCH ME".
...errr
-
Townie Twitchy Chemist
Using my scientific knowledge, I can redirect all night actions targeting a person to another. My twichyness makes me extra cautious, so if I?m targeted for a NK, then I automatically target myself and all actions that I get, including NK, are redirected to the person I originally chose to take the actions.
In essence, I'm bulletproof at the expense of another person. Possibly scum.
I want to be clear here: Did Hourai claim nightkill immunity and not want to be confirmed as town?
-
Like anyone is going to figure out that isn't me from those comments. The radio can be given away at night so I'm not worried about the Bastard Masons being revealed.
Serela. My radio has a name. If you cannot tell me what my radio is called I will call you a lying zombie.
-
Yours was called
Betty SetB.
-
I think you're lying. That's what I said in one of my messages but that's not actually the name of the radio. Please get proven or lynched.
-
Like anyone is going to figure out that isn't me from those comments. The radio can be given away at night so I'm not worried about the Bastard Masons being revealed.
Serela. My radio has a name. If you cannot tell me what my radio is called I will call you a lying zombie.
I'd like to point out that knowing the name of the radio means nothing about alignment - NeoSerela would have to be in the loop to have even known the radios existed. I didn't know about the radios until she roleclaimed.
-
Guys if we want to use my ability on Neo we need people to unvote Hourai and vote for Neo. Otherwise I'm just going to use it on Hourai and you can pursue Neo tomorrow.
-
Usually people who lie about their roles aren't town.. usually. The good thing here is if we make a mistake Serela won't die from it, so I'm not worried about him dying from a word error like a different game.
-
Oh, or it's RADIO b. RadioB. The command to pass it was ##SetB so asdkfjdas.
...so Shadoweh, around when did you send this alleged message containing a reference to the name of your radio? HMMM.
-
Usually people who lie about their roles aren't town.. usually. The good thing here is if we make a mistake Serela won't die from it, so I'm not worried about him dying from a word error like a different game.
I could change my vote in a second - the bulletproof guy that doesn't want to be confirmed town, or the radio master that doesn't know the names of her radios?
-
It's hard to sort out if it's a message you haven't gotten yet or not! If you don't have it yet it'll be there in an hour along with some ranting that you've just made completely pointless and idiotic by claiming. @mod Super needed update Votecount please! Either one could be lying Conqueror, so I guess it doesn't matter?
-
I'm leaning Hourai as a bullet proof confirmed town would be useful (and if he's scum, bulletproof dead scum is cool). Anyway unless you people want to blab I'm going to end the day after Serp posts another votecount.
-
The answer he just gave is more satisfactory and truthful.. Actually a confirmed bulletproof is pretty useless since scum won't shoot him.
-
Scum is not going to shoot a non-confirmed bulletproof either, especially one as scummy looking at Hourai. His being confirmed means he stays alive till game end is all.
-
You have a point and it'll give me something to point out to Affinity tomorrow so everyone wins!
-
Mmm, well alright then.
Anyway, something to point out here is that A.I've proven I know what Shadoweh was saying in the messages and B.HOW WOULD I EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE RADIOS TO ROLECLAIM IF I'M LYING
So yeah. There's no way I could possibly be lying. Hourai on the other hand has a more dubious claim to knowing what the messages say as he showed via his "wtf pokemon". It's much more curious how after his claim he comes out all like "OH HEY YOU'RE LYING THAT'S MY POWER I JUST DIDN'T SAY IT YET". It seems more likely he was informed by a scumbuddy, whether said buddy is UK/Shadoweh or someone else with a reciever.
But that's all null and void if he flips town. So lets see that Hourai flip! I'm rather excited :3 Either way though... Shadoweh's handling of this is just kind of unnerving me. Even after I demonstrate concrete knowledge of her messages and that she had a radio before she said she did, she's dubious of my claim.
-
Currently want to see Hourai's flip more, since I've been getting stronger scum reads from him (of course) and the way he handled his claim looks iffy due to how premature and unnecessary it is. It seems like a diversion to head the flip back onto Serela instead of Hourai himself. I actually agree with capt. h about Serela and think that Shadoweh's badgering of Serela is pretty ridiculous because it opens up the possible avenue of a town!Serela getting lynched over the mistakes of himself or the mod.
-
Or, well, flipped. <_< Which I guess isn't as bad, but Hourai is a much better target.
-
There's no way I could possibly be lying.
Oh and by the way, if anyone thinks I'm incorrect here, please try to prove me wrong. I'm pretty sure I got that right, though.
-
Of course, unless they have a hitman which might be likely.
In any case, Shadoweh, I don't think PX, Serela, etc. are exactly experienced and I think they are much easier to read than Colt, especially if Colt keeps up this level of activity in the game. You underestimate the power of people like wrathie, Doll.S and others as we get closer and closer to the endgame, trying to divine an alignment from their sparse and intelligible content. I've been there before, but okay, that is my view and perhaps Colt is different (would want him to post much more though).
I like Hourai more than Serela, but role-wise I think Hourai is the better choice for the job. If Serela can quote at least parts of the conversation between radio set I believe all nitpicking is unnecessary.
-
VOTECOUNT - That's a Lot of Ninjas Edition
Hanged Hourai (7) - huh what, capt. h, Pesco, Bardiche, NeoSerela, UncertainKitten, PX, Schezo (L-2)
NeoSerela (5) - Conquerer, Kilgamayan, Dormio, Shadoweh, Hanged Hourai, Schezo, Bardiche (L-4)
Conqueror (1) - Affinity, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what, NeoSerela
Schezo (1) - Zakeri, capt. h
PX (0) - PX, Dormio, Shadoweh
Dormio (0) - Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
huh what (0) - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
Zakeri (0) - NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Shadoweh (0) - Schezo, Dormio, capt. h
UncertainKitten (0) - Bardiche
capt. h (0) - Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0) - UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0) - Shadoweh, Conqueror
Not Voting: Colt, Schezo
With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch. Just over an hour until the deadline.
-
Serela: If you had an item that let you hack into the radio signals you would both know what the messages were and that radios exist. You've adequately proven to me that you know enough about my radio to have given it to me. Go for it Conqueror!
-
What is this I don't even.
Can people that have accused other people of lying step up and explain in crystal clear terms whether or not they still think the person they accused of lying is lying, and possibly reasons for that decision? Obviously don't give any more role information away than what is already on the table, but Jesus Christ this trainwreck.
Fake Edit: Oh, well, I guess this is all about to get resolved anyway.
-
That's going awfully close to rule 8
"Don't directly quote mod PMs or otherwise try to use exact wording of private information to add legitimacy to your position."
-
##Filibuster
Case closed. Finally. I tire of arguing tautologies. It's been so long since I had a proper meal...
I stepped away from the flickering campfire. The other survivors were yelling and throwing around mindless accusations in an attempt to assuage their conspiracy theories. A kangaroo court. Zombies, the lot of them. I would invite them all to my realm had I the patience or the power.
Hourai was on his feet, making wild claims in an attempt to defend himself. A few metres away, Serela spewed forth an increasingly incoherent stream of consciousness. The other survivors eyed them in suspicion. A few clutched at their guns and daggers. A pitiful sight. Wouldn't it be nice if we could peel back the masks and see the real personas behind the facade?
Zombies? Monsters? I laughed. No. We are the monsters. Look at us. Fighting amongst ourselves, flinging aside the last vestiges of our humanity in a witchhunt to eradicate those who would dare to live after death. But I suppose people are supposed to die when they are killed, no?
Fires burned on the horizon, and the distant sound of gunfire echoed through the air. The once grand tree stood barren against the grey, hazy landscape. If I could have seen the glory of humanity return once again, it would have been through the blossoming of this tree. The beginning of an eternal spring to herald the end of our nuclear winter.
Yes...a gift. The gift of hope. It's the last thing I can do for these people before I take my leave. The first modern incarnation of the legendary beauty.
BGM: Bloom nobly, cherry blossoms of Sumizome ~ Border of Life
Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. Sleep under the flowers, children of men.
##Spellcard Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana
I smiled and went to sleep under the blooming cherry blossom.
-
Serp if this doesn't work the way you promised I will murder you in your sleep. :V
-
Well balls.
-
HAMMERISH THING SHADDUP
-
END OF DAY ONE
As the sun crept down towards the western horizon, the town was split on which of them was most likely to be a zombie, between NeoSerela and Hanged Hourai. Finally, the consensus came down on Hanged Hourai, but there were still doubts over whether he was worthy of lynching. As they tried to determine who their most suspicious person was, NeoSerela claimed to have access to radio communication between two others.
"Objection!" Hourai broke in. "That's my ability! That you claim to have it is very suspicious!"
"Hold it! NeoSerela, can you prove that you have access to these private communications?"
"OBJECTION!" That last was Conqueror, bursting into the middle of the meeting with papers, photos, and plastic bags of evidence in hand. "This cross-examination is pointless when we have awesome spellcards to solve things for us!"
And with that, he began to conduct his case. Witnesses were called, evidence was examined, timelines were compared, deception-destroying danmaku was thrown, and Conqueror tied it all up with a long speech that left no doubt in the minds of the audience that Hourai was... scum.
"Wait, he's working for the zombies? I thought you were trying to prove him innocent?"
But Conqueror was no more, having spent all the power in his body and mind on that last case.
Conqueror, Town Lawyer has died after using his ability!
And with that, Hourai's fate was determined. Yet rather than getting up again and trying to keep shambling around after being killed, he stayed dead as a doornail. That's because even if he was working towards the zombies' victory, he wasn't a zombie himself.
Hanged Hourai, Traitor Mad Scientist, with his power to redirect the town's night actions, has been exposed and lynched!
With two of their number disposed of, the survivors turned in for the night.
It is now Night One! You have 24 hours to send me your night actions!
-
START OF DAY TWO
The town awoke on the second day to find that two more of their number had fallen during the night.
Affinity, Vanilla Townie was killed during the night!
UncertainKitten, Town Cowboy Cop, capable of investigating on every other night, and of using a night vigilante shot at the cost of losing all future investigations, was killed during the night!
It is now Day Two! The deadline is 72 hours from this post. If Pesco4u has not found a replacement by the end of the day, she he they will be modkilled.
-
(This post was written overnight. I'll write a post addressing how my opinions changed to reflect the recent flips after getting this out.)
Welp.
##Vote Shadoweh
That was a lot of effort she put into seeing Serela instead of Hourai as our second flip yesterday. Not to mention how she pretty much completely ignored Hourai during the rest of the day as well, but suddenly attacked and focused on me after I switched my vote onto him. In fact, her need for Conqueror to actually prod her before she actually gave opinions on anybody other than PX is pretty terrible in general. It doesn't help that Shadoweh's case on me seemed to have been made up as she went along and responded to pressure, and the allegations of me attempting to start a PX/Conqueror dichotomy were pretty much false (or at least from my point of view). Most of what I said about her D1 play here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582621.html#msg582621) still seems to stand as well. Definitely my top pick for Hourai's buddy at this point.
PX doesn't look that great in light of Conqueror's flip due to how weak his wagon jump was yesterday, but I can't see him as a buddy to Shadoweh barring a hard bus so I would rather see her die first. Colt is notable for doing everything bad that PX did except even worse - he has the same vote/empty unvote except with even less content, and it's implied he wanted to jump on the Conqueror wagon at the end of the day too but held back. A lot of Colt's content consists of waffling with no clear stances, too, which makes me suspect of newbscum. I definitely want to see him lynched before LYLO, but Shadoweh is a higher priority for now due to her link to the recent flipped scum.
Zakeri is argh at this point. I was originally okay with writing his vote off as some sort of gambit because I did not feel that scum could benifit from the way he went about it, but the fact that he clung on to the vote for the rest of the day without making another post is worthy of a lot of suspicion. I agree with Pesco about wanting to vig him.
In spite of its flip, I still retain the D1 townie vibes from everybody aside from PX who was on the Conqueror wagon, since in all honesty most of the reasons for jumping on seemed solid to me (after all, I thought Conqueror was scum as well). However, Affinity's apparent disapproval of my Hourai case makes me sadface a little, although his reasons for doing so were understandable enough that I wouldn't actually place him too high on my scum list at this point. It's still something to be wary of, though. UK is a bit weird too for never actually even responding against Bardiche's accusations. I would appreciate it if she did so, as it could possibly help me get a better read on her. While I'm at it, I'd just like to say that I find it incredibly weird how Bardiche dropped all pressure on UK without ever getting a response from her. I didn't even notice this until a re-read. How did this happen, Bard?
capt. h looks good right now, since at the time of his Hourai vote there was not much risk of it turning into a wagon and I don't think scum would want to bus him that early, let alone newbscum. I believe Serela's claim too, especially considering that he was the rival wagon to Hourai at the end of the day yesterday. Still got a town read on him. Dormio seems somewhat safe considering that flipped scum parked their vote on him. Everybody else I haven't mentioned up to this point is an enigma to me.
tl;dr reading scum on Shadoweh, Colt and Zak, a little iffy on PX and Affinity but not willing to chase them over the first three today, reading town on capt. h and Serela.
-
Okay, cross off what I said about UK and Affinity.
Bard doesn't look so great with UK's flip, and I would like him to answer why he dropped his case on her even more now. I... don't think anything else has really changed for now. I'm a little curious if UK shot Affinity then got nightkilled considering that there were two kills and UK flipped vig, but I have no idea why she would do this considering her D1. :s
-
Well, I'm going to begin by stating the obvious - from a quick look at Hourai's posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=3371), we know he spoke of me, Conq. Colt, Zak, Huh What, Dormio, and Neo Serela.
Of these, I find the Zak and Dormio comments the most worth investigating, as Hourai voted for both of them, and they were not exactly at the center of yesterday's discussions. Colt is also worth a look at, since he wasn't really here either.
I do find Shadoweh's actions strange at this point.
I also find the two nightkills strange and somewhat scary even. Affinity was pretty much the token confirmed townie, so it would not be surprising if that was the scum kill. On the other hand, we know Uncertain Kitten had the other radio.
It may be important to know the content of the discussions held on these radios. We know NeoSerela and Shadoweh have access to the messages. If one of them dies because the other is scum, any information will be lost or distorted, while for now the information passed along the radios can be confirmed by two people.
-
People that probably shouldn't be touched today
- huh what
- Pesco
- UK
- Serela
People of interest:
- Zakeri
Reasons are obvious. I was willing to give him slack because I expected him to come back and do something meaningful, and, well. That Day 1 will be a huge black mark on him for the rest of the game. However I'm far more interested in the ramifications of the scum flip so he lucks out by getting put on the back burner for the time being. (Amazing that arguably his worse Day 1 ever DOESN'T end in him getting lynched!) Also there was the fact that Hourai bit on his vote so that's worth a little bit of positive cred in his direction.
- Shadoweh
Suspicions were bubbling through the later part of yesterday, as I hope could be seen throughout my posts, and then there's the sitting on Serela at a rather critical juncture throughout the end of yesterday. The picking at Serela's role bugs me, too. Why would anyone lie about an independently verifiable role such as his when it's not an inherently anti-town role? What would you have concluded if he did not produce the exact name of the radio you got? Especially when no one called him on talking about "the Pokemon song" when Hourai had only mentioned Pokemon and said nothing about a song (a statement contained within a post that actually lessened your opinion of his claim, no less). One could point to her giving Conqueror the thumbs-up at the end as points positive but the decision had really been made at that point anyway and there wouldn't have been much she could do to stop it if she wanted to so I wouldn't buy into it.
- Dormio
I still can't recall a single meaningful thing he said without actively going over his posts, and never getting an answer to my question here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583624.html#msg583624) rankles me considerably, especially given what the question is. Hourai's flip makes the reasonless flop over to Serela look ten times worse (unless people want to throw out the idea of Serela/Hourai scumbuddies but I'm not anywhere near convinced that is the case when I don't think it would have been too difficult for scum to get a PX push going instead) because it really DOES look like taking the path of least resistance and further leading a townie toward the gallows because it's simply what's going on at the moment. Looking back through his posts I'm finding almost anything on Serela before the vote - latest pre-vote post that mentions him is this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582458.html#msg582458), which is lackluster. Pesco's DotS endorsement isn't enough for me on this one, nor is Hourai's vote for him because that case never really went anywhere.
- Schezo
This one is fun because I haven't had the time to sit down and go back through his Day 1 properly (will do that very soon) so it's entirely predicated on the dance he did after Conqueror's claim. He broke the 6-all tie by pushing Hourai ahead which would look fantastic if he didn't retract his vote immediately, ask a question about roles and then disappear for the rest of the day. Given the question about the roles, this looks very much like it could have been a public representation of scum chat confusion with an opportunity to lower the odds of Hourai getting the axe presenting itself. Why did you not at least come back and say you still preferred Hourai to Serela, with or without a vote attached, if you had to go somewhere? If you DIDN'T have to go somewhere, why did you clam up entirely, not even acknowledging the answer to your question (never mind bothering to re-address the main issue at hand)?
##Vote: Shadoweh because pressure is good.
On the subject of Bard, since huh what mentioned him, I did notice that both of his major cases yesterday were on people that are on my "shouldn't be touched today" list, but he also swung to Hourai at a fairly important time when he has every opportunity to switch to just about anyone else and didn't, so that earns him some brownie points from me.
-
I'm the most expectant of one being the NK target and the other being the target of an SK or something along those lines. Probably with Affinity as the first and UK as the latter
which makes Bard an obvSK. The only thing that makes me wonder about this is UK flipping vig, but the cop abilities did at least provide her with a reason to hold her fire. I suppose we'll have to wait until N2 for a clearer answer.
I don't think Hourai's comments on Colt are worth looking into at all because they basically amount to a prod which other people had already done. It's essentially null.
Hourai's votepark off to Dormio makes me more inclined to think that the Zakvote could have been intended as a later-cancelled bus, especially since I personally did not see much stock in the Zak case until Zak failed to keep posting, while a scumbuddy could potentially biased by their own information.
Ninja'd by Kilga, will read in a bit.
-
- Dormio
Looking back through his posts I'm finding almost anything on Serela before the vote
This should be "I'm finding almost nothing on Serela". Apologies for the mistake.
-
Oh right, I forgot about the timing of Bard's switch to Hourai. That makes him a little bit better in my eyes, but I still want him to pop up and speak regardless.
-
Oh right, I forgot about the timing of Bard's switch to Hourai. That makes him a little bit better in my eyes, but I still want him to pop up and speak regardless.
Can you explain why Bard's flip to Hourai tells us anything about whether Bard is scum or town?
-
Second mistake (oh boy): I thought Hourai had move from Dormio to Zakeri but it was the other way around, so it wouldn't do to give Zakeri a pass for being a vote target when I don't give Dormio one.
I suppose I'm not willing to lend much credence to either one as a meaningful tell in either direction; the Dormio vote sat there and did nothing, and while the Zakeri case could have taken off it didn't and it was a really really easy vote target besides to the point where it was a perfectly possible bus. So Dormio still gets no credit, and Zakeri just doesn't get credit.
-
@capt. h: Kilga already covered it at the end of his post. I was responding to him.
-
capt. h: Bard moved to a confirmed scum when he had every opportunity to move to someone else. Why would ScumBard move to a scumbuddy instead of a townie?
-
capt. h: Bard moved to a confirmed scum when he had every opportunity to move to someone else. Why would ScumBard move to a scumbuddy instead of a townie?
Because Hourai was the traitor, not pure scum. There's a distinction.
-
I'm at uni right now so I'll make a proper post when I get back home in... 7 hours.
Kilgamayan: I changed to NeoSerela because it didn't look like a check on PX was happening and I forgot that mornings exist.
In other words I thought that was going to be my last post for the day.
Though posting in the morning whilst trying to get ready for uni results in not much thought going on regardless.
Why NeoSerela? Basically, a series of small issues I had with him looked worse compared to Hourai's lurking, seeing as there were several other lurkers around.
Anyway.
##Vote PX
The two people I dislike the most right now are PX and Shadoweh.
I'll try to expand on this once I get home.
Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Oh dear lord what?
Reading.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:/
-
I'm not the only one not liking how capt. h seems to be stating stuff about the game format, am I?
Especially considering how his points about the format seem to be related to scum.
-
Because Hourai was the traitor, not pure scum. There's a distinction.
I don't think he was a traitor to the scum team so much as a traitor to us, considering the flavor revolving around his death. His flip looked pretty red-colored to me, so I'm assuming the it was just a flavor deal ("Traitor" was placed where Hourai's alignment would be, and I'm assuming that scum in this game flip as "Zombie (role)", which Hourai obviously wasn't. In-story, he was a traitor to the rest of the town/humans).
-
I don't think he was a traitor to the scum team so much as a traitor to us, considering the flavor revolving around his death. His flip looked pretty red-colored to me, so I'm assuming the it was just a flavor deal ("Traitor" was placed where Hourai's alignment would be, and I'm assuming that scum in this game flip as "Zombie (role)", which Hourai obviously wasn't. In-story, he was a traitor to the rest of the town/humans).
In the mafiascum wiki, a traitor is a role that knows who the mafia is. However, the mafia don't know who the traitor is. The traitor also frequently has investigative abilities, but can only divulge that information privately upon becoming full scum. The traitor would have to be recruited before he could talk to scum directly.
Thus, there is a very good chance that scum did not know that Hourai was their ally.
-
Traitor is a role, not alignment, right? Because Hourai's flip said nothing about that being a part of his role, and he didn't have any sort of investigative abilities either. I'm still inclined to believe the "Traitor" was just story-related flavor.
If it does indeed turn out that this is the case, then I'll probably switch to Colt, since Shadoweh would look significantly better if scum did not know Hourai's alignment.
-
Traitor is a role, not alignment, right? Because Hourai's flip said nothing about that being a part of his role, and he didn't have any sort of investigative abilities either. I'm still inclined to believe the "Traitor" was just story-related flavor.
If it does indeed turn out that this is the case, then I'll probably switch to Colt, since Shadoweh would look significantly better if scum did not know Hourai's alignment.
I don't know what happened on those radios, but:
GDI
I might as well say this right now. Neo is lying about his role. That's the second part of my ability, but I didn't want to claim it yet. He somehow knows what it does, but it's the other part of my role.
I'm countering you on this.
HEY UK, YOU LIKE POKEMON?
From what I can gather, he did have an investigative role that allowed him to hear radio conversations. Hence the "pokemon", which appears to be a topic that was discussed on the radios:
Mmm, well alright then.
Anyway, something to point out here is that A.I've proven I know what Shadoweh was saying in the messages and B.HOW WOULD I EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE RADIOS TO ROLECLAIM IF I'M LYING
So yeah. There's no way I could possibly be lying. Hourai on the other hand has a more dubious claim to knowing what the messages say as he showed via his "wtf pokemon". It's much more curious how after his claim he comes out all like "OH HEY YOU'RE LYING THAT'S MY POWER I JUST DIDN'T SAY IT YET". It seems more likely he was informed by a scumbuddy, whether said buddy is UK/Shadoweh or someone else with a reciever.
But that's all null and void if he flips town. So lets see that Hourai flip! I'm rather excited :3 Either way though... Shadoweh's handling of this is just kind of unnerving me. Even after I demonstrate concrete knowledge of her messages and that she had a radio before she said she did, she's dubious of my claim.
-
NeoSerela, Shadoweh, can you please explain the significance of "Pokemon" in reference to the radios?
-
I think the ability to listen in on the radios is just tied to another scum. Otherwise, it would have appeared in Hourai's flip.
-
Oh wait, idea.
Mod: If you're capable of answering this, what would a scum goon who was not a zombie flavor-wise flip as?
-
Oh wait, idea.
Mod: If you're capable of answering this, what would a scum goon who was not a zombie flavor-wise flip as?
Sorry, that information isn't public knowledge.
-
Hourai seems to have had some knowledge over what went on in the UK-Shadoweh conversation, due his pokemon comment.
How would Hourai have access to information about the radio conversations?
Either one of the scum has a reciever radio or whatever, or Shadoweh is scum and gave Hourai the needed info to attempt to counter-claim me, which was pulled off incredibly badly. Obviously, UK has flipped town, so it can't be her. I would have highly doubted it was her anyway due to Shadoweh's incredibly questionable actions during the late day. Lets go over those!
She questions me over the private conversation contents, and yet when I show that I do indeed know what happened, she claims that I don't seem to know very well and am less convincing then Hourai. She then asks me questions about the name and actions for the radio, and when I respond...
I think you're lying. That's what I said in one of my messages but that's not actually the name of the radio.
She says in a message that she has Set B (I got this message later, if you're confused over the next few posts in that time period). My role pm called them Set B. The specific thing they are referred to as in later mod pms is RadioB. That she wouldn't accept Set B as an answer when she herself calls them that (And therefore was probably told they were that at least once!) seems ridiculous, not to mention after I say RadioB, she still never goes "Oh yes, that's correct" or anything like that.
Not only that, but she actively tried to stop Hourai being the filibuster target.
The answer he just gave is more satisfactory and truthful.. Actually a confirmed bulletproof is pretty useless since scum won't shoot him.
Ignoring how Hourai's counter-claim was so weirdly executed and my answer showed that I just as clearly knew the conversations as he did, the complete ignoring of wanting to know that said bulletproof is scum or town doesn't seem like an oversight Shadoweh would make so easily.
what when did you suddenly decide I DO seem to be sufficiently convincingly truthful instead of being so much less convincing then hourai (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584012.html#msg584012)
tl;dr Shadoweh acted very strangely, seemed to be trying to make me look worse and Hourai look better even when clearly it was not the case, and her being scum would also be the most understandable explanation to how Hourai knew what was going on in the radio conversations.
##Vote:Shadoweh
I can't do more then make the Shadoweh case right now because it's pretty straightforward and simple even if I can't hear my own thoughts, because I can't, as my brother's 5 year old twins that I now live with are soooo, well, you know, 5 year old twins ;_;
As for this debate over what Hourai being "Traitor" means, I agree with Huhwhat's saying that "Well he was with the zombies but wasn't a zombie, so I believe it means a traitor to humans and it's just game flavor name for Scum/Mafia."
-
It may be important to know the content of the discussions held on these radios. We know NeoSerela and Shadoweh have access to the messages. If one of them dies because the other is scum, any information will be lost or distorted, while for now the information passed along the radios can be confirmed by two people.
It's not really anything all that interesting, and I'm not sure I can quote any of this stuff without violating Rule 8 anyway. Plus, UK died and I'm heavily suspecting Shadoweh of being scum, so.
There wasn't anything said that would particularly help town to be revealed publicly, simply put.
NeoSerela, Shadoweh, can you please explain the significance of "Pokemon" in reference to the radios?
Shadoweh message'd a mafia spoof of the pokemon theme song.
-
Went back over Schezo, he only had two meaningful posts before the post-ConqClaim dance but they were fairly solid with clearly-defined opinions and reasons for said opinions.
Serela makes an interesting point about Hourai knowing about the Pokemon thing that I hadn't considered. I wouldn't say it seals the deal, but I will be very interested in hearing Shadoweh's explanation for it.
-
Shadoweh:
Conqueror the takeover king: No. I will cut you. I only feel the need to give opinions on people I think are scum, which is why I have been staring holes through PX and huh what and trying to ignore you. There are also at least five players that haven't posted anything new for me to give an opinion on so I'm stuck waiting for town.
This, I find VERY interesting. So you are exempt from posting opinions? Also, her defense of Conquerer is very suspicious, since she keeps assuring us it's a gut feeling, even when Conquerer HIMSELF asked her to clarify it. And when Dormio asked her why she was defending Pesco4U, she redirects it by asking him why isn't he asking why she is defending Conquerer. It looks to me that she knew Conquerer was town from the start, and trying to give herself a good position when Conquerer eventually flipped town.
Then there's that radio thing that's going around. I'm sure Hourai knew about it from scum source. And I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that Neo gave it to UK and Shadoweh, Shadoweh seems like the source of the link.
For her early day 1, she did nothing but tunneled on PX, while providing no opinions until asked for by Conquerer. And even then, not much.
Scumsourced, behaviour that feels as if the source of it is scum. Zak might have a different explanation.
Kilgamayan: Fairly open book motives. Probably the only person who managed to question my PX case that wasn't in the form of 'So Conqueror vs PX?'
UncertainKitten: Seems to agree with my feelings on PX? After her conversation with PX and now that both PX and Conqueror have posted a bigger post I would like to hear, seperately, if she believes PX is a valid case, if Conqueror is active lurking scum, and which craftier players she would suspect right now.
Affinity: Answered my questions with linked posts without misrepresenting them. Would like to hear opinions on other players as well.
huh what: Still waiting for that re-read. Put some :effort: into it. Possibly a zombie.
Edit for Dormio: Are you voting me because you want to vote for Kitten4u but you think I'd come after you? That's so stupid, I don't even know. Make a real case on her and I will not care.
If you really want that much of a straight answer:
Kilgamayan: Human.
UncertainKitten: Possibly a zombie in human skin.
Affinity: Human.
huh what: Zombie.
Wait a minute... this is a nice contradiction I just found. First she shows opinions, then she refuses to provide opinions. Hmmm....
Then there's her tying up/putting Neoserela in the lead in a critical moment, and overall just trying to get him ahead.
##Vote: Shadoweh
Ninja Edit
Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
-
Either NeoSerela or Shadoweh is scum, or scum have a receiver.
If we beleive it's one of the first two, then we could just lynch shadoweh, and if he's town, lynch neoserela immediately afterwards, and we would still probably be ahead of scum due to the day one successful scum kill. But if scum had a receiver as well, then that would be a bad idea. And that double nightkill doesn't sit well with me, I'm not satisfied with the explanation that UK would sacrifice any future investigative ability to kill what several players considered the towniest townie, especially considering he could have investigated Affinity instead.
-
The double night kill basically confirms that there is either a serial killer out(kind of likely and supports 3 scum), or a town vigilante(which I would believe supports 4 scum).
-
For her early day 1, she did nothing but tunneled on PX, while providing no opinions until asked for by Conquerer.
Why the third person? Did you copy-paste your case from the scum quicktopic? :V
-
Cap: Please don't fall into the trap of "well we can lynch X and if X flips town lynch Y", it very often tends to lead to both X and Y being townies (and almost as often leads to the person suggesting it being scum trying to bag two free heads).
Speculating on the second death also makes me antsy (this goes for everyone). There are a handful of potential explanations with no way to prove any of them without someone claiming the second kill, so all it serves to do is waste time.
-
huh what: I seem to recall this not being the first time PX has used third-person to refer to himself in this game.
-
Oh. Really? That's odd, but... eh. :s
For clarity, what I said about the scum quicktopic was a joke, if the :V did not make it clear enough.
-
Oh. Really? That's odd, but... eh. :s
For clarity, what I said about the scum quicktopic was a joke, if the :V did not make it clear enough.
Although now that you mention it, people don't refer to themselves in the third person.
-
Serela: While you're around, do you know what happens when a radio holder dies? I suppose Shadoweh could still use the radio to communicate with you privately, but otherwise it'd be good to know if Radio A is still in circulation, I believe.
-
##Vote PX
For her early day 1, she did nothing but tunneled on PX, while providing no opinions until asked for by Conquerer. And even then, not much.
PX, what's the deal with this?
-
Serp: I believe Dormio voted for PX.
-
huh what: I seem to recall this not being the first time PX has used third-person to refer to himself in this game.
I don't know if this is the first time he referred to himself in the third person this game, but I searched his posts. This is the first time he refers to himself in the third person this game by name, except to vote for himself to get checked by Conqueror during the NeoSerela/Hourai wagons.
-
Serp: I believe Dormio voted for PX.
My bad. Corrected count:
VOTECOUNT - Simpler Than Yesterday Revised Edition
Shadoweh (4): huh what, Kilgamayan, NeoSerela, PX (L-3)
PX (2): Dormio, capt. h
Not Voting: Bardiche, Colt, Pesco, Schezo, Shadoweh, Zakeri
With 12 votes in play, 7 are required to lynch. Under 70 hours remain in the day.
-
Eesh that's alot of votes. I woke up literally two minutes ago so I'll be right back to read over the game and post again.
To answer PX, I asked Serpentarius if I could persue that route of questioning before continuing, that's why I needed more time. To everyone that raged at me for being unclear yesterday about what I was asking NeoSerela, I deserve it even though I tried to correct it in the end. If I'd thought about it for two seconds, someone openly claiming bulletproof yet not wanting to be confirmed town... Especially since bulletproof and confirmed was the exact circumstance I was thinking about when arguing with Affinity... I'm an idiot again. The one thing I confirmed for myself is Serela stopped being insane and started making sense. I was trying to make sure he wasn't getting his information from UncertainKitten.
Trying to analyze these wagon flips is weird. Hourai was scum acting scummy, but the zombies didn't know he was a zombie? I'm not sure how to approach this. I can't remember seeing a Traitor before.
-
Trying to analyze these wagon flips is weird. Hourai was scum acting scummy, but the zombies didn't know he was a zombie? I'm not sure how to approach this. I can't remember seeing a Traitor before.
It's possible, but not actually confirmed. I... personally don't think that it is the case considering that his role's flip said nothing of the sort and seemed to imply that "Traitor" was the flavor replacement for "Zombie", considering that Hourai was not undead.
-
Oh, while I'm at it.
Shadoweh, did you pass the radio to anybody last night? I have reasons for asking this.
-
Considering what I said about Affinity over the radio and looking at UncertainKitten's power, she might have shot him because I said his Day 1 looked terrible. I'm not sure why she wouldn't cop him instead. Her last message, sent after flips, said she doesn't think Bard is scum, hates all the terribleness of newbs, and thinks Serela was scum with HH because of the wiretap. With a >=[
This is impossible though. Traitors is not flavor text, it's a role. Traitors don't have communication with the rest of the scum team. In fact I would go as far as to say Serela is Obviously Town because Traitors tend to have an information power to help the scum team when they join them. He was the radio spy, therefore Serela was not.
Effectively, from scum view, yesterday was a newbie wagon, followed by a double town train for Conqueror's power. We just lucked out in that Hourai was secretly scum.
Yes, I got rid of the radio last night like I said I would.
-
This is impossible though. Traitors is not flavor text, it's a role. Traitors don't have communication with the rest of the scum team.
So far, Serp has given all roles full flips. If Hourai has more to his role, then why did Serp not mention it during the flip? The flip implies that "Traitor" was Hourai's alignment, not role, and the red coloring implies that his alignment is not unique from scum (unless the actual scum flip a different color, which would be a little odd, all things considered).
We know for a fact that Hourai was not the radio spy, unless Serp was being a bastard and didn't give Hourai a full flip. (If this is the case, then he probably really is a traitor as well)
Noted about the radio thing. This makes me slightly less suspect of you for some reasons bordering on set-up speculation. Would prefer not to get into that right now, however.
-
Edible4u is on the scene. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dPK9HQIufk)
Gimme some time to read this nonsense.
-
And with that, Hourai's fate was determined. Yet rather than getting up again and trying to keep shambling around after being killed, he stayed dead as a doornail. That's because even if he was working towards the zombies' victory, he wasn't a zombie himself.
huh what, go read up the Traitor role to see that this is exactly what a Traitor flip sounds like. If Hourai's ability to listen in on the radio was an item like the radios themselves, it wouldn't show in the flip because it's not really a part of his role.
Edible: Please don't vig me again Welcome to the Apocalypse!
-
Oh my, what's this now? Affinity had pure intents yesterday which makes me feel better about bringing this up:
This (http://) is where Affinity first starts to call out Shadoweh for shooting down questions and feeling exempt from providing any opinions of her own while at the same time making one of many "gut" clears on Conqueror.
This is brought up (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583158.html#msg583158) after Shadoweh dodges Affinities first questioning. She just turns the question asked to he around to huh what and dodges it again here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583207.html#msg583207). It's starting to look bad but maybe a misunderstanding at that point isn't beyond the impossible.
After showing more annoyance at Shadoweh, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583451.html#msg583451) Affinity right out calls Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583690.html#msg583690) once again on not posting anything game related on why Conqueror gets a clear after he "cheats" once again and uses another BS excuse for why he gets the clear, heavily supporting the claim that Shadoweh knew right form the beginning that Conqueror was going to flip town and was trying to get a better stance on how he would be viewed for not being against him. Any word at saying she misunderstood Affinities and others multiple asked questions at this point is blatantly wrong.
Then, this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583365.html#msg583365) just blows me out of the water. Asking for Conqueror to give an opinion on her while she still hasn't said one about Conqueror. What.
Then we throw in "it was completely unreasonable for Neo to know that she got the radio" and had to be absolutely nitpicky on a silly fact after claiming to know enough with the pokemon song while Hourai just mentioned pokemon and it was "aye ok" for Shadoweh to buy it. After going on with that BS for a while from 420 to 443, "Would ya look at that, Neo isn't lying after all." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584012.html#msg584012) It took you that long huh? Are you sure you weren't pushing for the Serela reveal from Conqueror instead.
Even when I was confused as hell as to what was going on, I can't believe I listened to him tell me to unvote right when I swung the Hourai vote up higher than Serela's too. I guess my suspicions on you yesterday were right.
##Vote: Shadoweh
I find it curious that Zakeri wasn't mentioned in the replacement queue like Pesco4U... Is he still playing?
Dormio: The only thing I can see that's redeemable on him is that he has the audacity to say anything about Kilga. I feel Kilga is town and I'm almost agreeing with everything he says but I have to keep watching him.
To answer Kilga's question though, I was really confused at the whole radio partners, "he's lying, she's full of shit." thing going on and before it got even close to being resolved I had to leave and do work. I know that was terrible to not see the rest of the day through but I remembered that someone said we don't want an accidental hammer and it just made sense to not leave it a possibility, then PX jumped in and L-2ed him while UK was screaming stop voting Houri. Although the person who told me to unvote in the first place makes me feel like an idiot for listening to it. In short I have no excuse for not coming back to leave a message and that was foolish of me.
I also think traitor is just a flavoring issue not a role since it's highly possible Hourai was just tipped off to claim he had listening powers.
cut: 14 or so times, gracious you people explode with posts.
-
... Fair enough, if you're willing to count the flavor as part of the flip. I admit that I had not thought about the possibility of another item going around. Willing to drop this for now, if Hourai's buddies did not know of his existance then most of the case on you is null. (It should also be noted that I have reason to believe you are not an active scum role.)
##Unvote
##Vote Colt
Low presence, posts full of waffles, awkward jump on capt. h followed by an empty unvote, showed a desire to get on a flipped townie wagon but lacked the conviction to actually do so. None of these are traits I like to see in newbies, and I think his intention to jump on Conqueror is as damning as those who actually did so, if not worse.
Without a strong reason to believe Shadoweh is scum, PX has shot up on my list as well. I would prefer to take Colt out over him, however, because Colt did everything PX did except worse.
Ninja'd by Schezo. Haven't read it yet, but did he really need to push Shadoweh to L-2 this early?
-
Shame on at least three of you for capt.h figuring out what I'm saying about Traitors before you all did. I'm still reading over the posts made before now and PX strikes me as.. just as bad as yesterday actually. It's like he's taking Affinity's argument and running with it. Whoever has my radio now can confirm that the name isn't "Set B" if they really feel like coming forward. I should have cleared Serela for saying that though since I hadn't said it over the radio yet, but you try keeping track of if something you said over fifteen hours ago got through or not yet when you're in a rush.
Okay, too many people are voting for me and I wouldn't want you all to be surprised if I reset the wagon so it's time for this.
-
Just remember; you're playing a team game. It's important to hunt scum, but it's also important to make yourself believable, both in regards to "is this case valid?" and "do I trust this person?". If you can't accomplish those, whatever scumhunting you do is very likely to be in vain.
Ordinarily this statement is true. Being obviously town and convincing to other players is just as important as figuring out who the scum are to win for town. However my role this game takes the first two points out of the equation. I need to know how I feel about the players because my feelings are all that matter for what I need to do. Today for one of you they will be all that matter to you because your life is entirely in my hands. It is Day 2 and my role is now active.
Attention! Serpentarius is my fairy godmother and heard my prayers from last game. The following players have until 36 hours into the day to convince me not to shoot them. One of you is getting shot today, openly, in front of everyone. This list will change according to how I feel. You can try to convince me who you want me to shoot but ultimately it is my gun and I will shoot who I think is the best target.
Gonna eat buckshot
Bardiche
capt. h
Colt
Dormio
huh what
Kilgamayan
PX
Schezo
Zakeri if he's not getting modkilled
I am the Vigilante and today I am the law.
-
I find it curious that Zakeri wasn't mentioned in the replacement queue like Pesco4U... Is he still playing?
Yeah, he told me last night that he's still in.
-
I don't particularly doubt your claim since it lines up with what I know, but your list doesn't actually say who you currently think is scummiest/the best target. More opinions, please. That said, I would obviously prefer a vig on Colt, or alternately PX or Zak.
What do you think of Colt, anyway? He was pretty much a worse PX on D1, and considering how much you seem to hate PX, some comments on him would be appreciated.
-
I thought you said that if you were vig that you would instant shoot me and huh what?
-
Also, does my referring to myself in 3rd person really seem that weird when I've been switching between h. capt and capt. h, huh what and what huh, and calling Kitten4U Pesco?
-
One more for the triple post. Shadoweh, post the full details of your ability.
-
If Colt doesn't stop giving me Doll flashbacks I will probably honor Affinity's wish and blow him out of the water. If you look back at my argument about who to use Conqueror's power on with the knowledge that I'm the vigilante you should understand my side better.
PX: The actual quote is "It's like you're reading my posts through Google Translator. If I had an unlimited dayvig I would shoot you(Schezo) and PX in the face right now." Serpentarius wasn't THAT nice to me. :V How about you stop trying to get me to defend myself and give me a reason not to shoot you instead?
-
Also, does my referring to myself in 3rd person really seem that weird when I've been switching between h. capt and capt. h, huh what and what huh, and calling Kitten4U Pesco?
I checked both this game and your previous game when you were town for instances of you refering to yourself as "PX", and this is the only one. Would you also like me to check the previous game's quick topic as well as other games you were in?
-
So let me ask you something. How does that make me scum, exactly?
-
So let me ask you something. How does that make me scum, exactly?
It means someone else probably wrote your arguments for you.
-
Shadoweh, would it hurt to stop trying to control the day phase completely just because the RNG decided to give you a one-shot dayvig? <_< I'm not attacking your alignment over this, but town has nothing to gain from turning D2 into "everybody defend themselves" day and I think you should be handling your responsibility in a better manner than sitting back and fearmongering while expecting everybody to hunt scum for you.
I'm not asking for your opinions on Colt as a vig target, I'm asking for your opinions on Colt as potential scum.
capt. h taking a joke I made and running with it is looking rather odd, considering that his late D1 showed that he can do better than this.
-
Also, if you're a town!dayvig, then you should either
a) Shoot whoever town thinks is the most/second most scummiest, since it's essentially a double lynch
b) Shoot whoever you personally think is the most scummiest
So I'm basically speculating that you're going to shoot me, but if you are, tell me so I can claim first.
-
Posting from the middle of a lecture, like a boss.
Only skimmed through the topic for now.
Anyway, Shadoweh, if you give me a heads up on your target before you shoot I should be able to guarantee that your target will die. (ie. break down bulletproof if they have it and disable things like Hourai's redirects)
Warning - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Trying to type up a post whilst trying to get notes down at the same time is hard.
capt. h: Are you using how PX refers to himself as a basis for him being scummy?
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Apparently you are, which is pretty stupid.
-
It might hurt me. My role is not just a one-shot dayvig. My role is going to get me killed and it's too good not to use that part of it so I have to work fast. This also means threats to lynch me if I don't shoot who you want me to don't scare me. I don't have time to defend myself. I also don't intend to sit back but I need time to re-evaluate my internal zombie list now that two deaths were added.
Colt is a non-presence. He didn't bother to make a case yesterday. Same with Zakeri actually. These two need to actually contribute before I can decide which is worse.
-
Shadoweh, would it hurt to stop trying to control the day phase completely just because the RNG decided to give you a one-shot dayvig? <_< I'm not attacking your alignment over this, but town has nothing to gain from turning D2 into "everybody defend themselves" day and I think you should be handling your responsibility in a better manner than sitting back and fearmongering while expecting everybody to hunt scum for you.
I'm not asking for your opinions on Colt as a vig target, I'm asking for your opinions on Colt as potential scum.
capt. h taking a joke I made and running with it is looking rather odd, considering that his late D1 showed that he can do better than this.
It's my sense of precision kicking in. I mentioned my job before: it's to check on the factual accuracy of other people's work, and often involves double checking everything. In other words, once I noticed that instance of PX referring to himself in the third person and you brought it up, I felt obligated to check to see if that was within the norm or not. It is in fact not within the norm, and I was being sincere when I said I would scan his previous posts for any instance of him refering to himself as "PX" in the third person.
Remember, I also confirmed Hourai's false claim on you that you didn't use the word "scum" when refering to Conqueror by checking all your previous posts this game and looking for instances of the word scum, and coming to the conclusion that Hourai's claim was false. I then desired an explanation from Hourai for his false claim. Similarly i demand an explanation from PX for his claim that referring to himself in the third person is not unusual.
-
Hourai's claimed self redirects
-
OCD much?
Honestly, townies are just as likely to make these small mistakes as scum are. It's not really worth getting hung up on when there are actual wagons and flips to analyze.
-
OCD much?
Honestly, townies are just as likely to make these small mistakes as scum are. It's not really worth getting hung up on when there are actual wagons and flips to analyze.
Yeah, you may have a point. I mean, about the OCD. Since it bothered me, I went back and used ctrl-f on every post PX ever made, and I can confirm this is pretty much the second time he has ever referred to himself as PX. The previous instance was JK9 Mafia post #174, with a very different, deliberate connotation. This is the first time he has ever accidentally referred to himself in the third person.
-
Screw the lecture.
Anyway, my case on PX from D1 still applies.
PX has said pretty much nothing so far today.
Over the entire game this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584933.html#msg584933) is the only real case he has made.
Shadoweh: My opinion on Shadoweh has changed since the roleclaim, since it seems like it would be a pretty silly claim to make if she was scum.
What's with people and their suicidal roles though?
Argh, battery is starting to run low.
~3 hours until I get home.
-
Dormio: This is the Apocalypse, true heros aren't afraid to die if they take the zombies with them. I believed Conqueror's roleclaim despite how crazy it sounded because it fit with mine. Don't worry, I'm not going to surprise shoot without saying who I want to eat lead.
huh what: I would count a wording mistake like that as a point against the person even if it's not the be-all and end all. The way capt.h presents his argument seems to be consistent with yesterday.
capt.h: That's a good start, but look for other inconsistencies in PX's posts if you want to take it further. It's not damning evidence on its own.
-
Okay, to stop laughing, I will say this. My referring to myself in third person in that post is not a mistake. It is intentional.
-
Another thing. Why are Edible and NeoSerela missing from your list of targets?
Also, I think we should wait for everyone else to get back before we do something.
-
Because I think NeoSerela is town and Pesco is the only person that made sense yesterday.
-
I'm more or less done with my reread. In the meantime, have some info.
Hi kids! I'm Edible and I have a very silly role.
I'm a biologist and had enough of my equipment left to perform one blood sample test. Sadly, my equipment was somewhat fruity, and I could only test folks en masse. Even more sadly, a certain rabbit used my ability for me last night.
Er, did I say sadly? I meant "thankfully," because I got a positive result. Hooray!
Five names were given:
huh what, Bardiche, Shadoweh, Kilgamayan, Schezo
Of the above, at least two are zombies.
That is all the information I have, but I feel it is important enough to share.
-
what
Immediate picks would be Bard and Schezo (barring a scum vig), but... yeah. <_< We should definitely make sure that Shadoweh's vig hits one of those people.
-
what
huh
Why Bard/Schezo over Kilga?
-
I was getting townie vibes from him D1, but now that you mention it, he was on the Conqueror wagon, so... hm. I have not done an in-depth look at him, so.
Do you have any personal choices yourself yet?
-
Kilga is one of those players that's really good at sounding town. Catching him if he's not would be hard.
But he didn't die D1 so obviously he's a zombie. I have a question for him though, why did he step up to defend PX on speaking in the third person?
-
Gut tells me Kilga needs to die.
Logic tells me Schezo does.
Both tell me huh what doesn't.
Neither tell me much about Bardiche at all.
Finally, I think there's a better chance of Shadoweh being a third party than town, but as long as she's acting in our interests I see no reason to do whatever it is we do to potential zombies. Dayvigs are easily verifiable and can be influenced by town as essentially a second lynch with no night phase, should the shooter play along.
I usually go with my gut over my logic, so I would pick Kilga for the bullet.
Further thoughts will have to wait given I should have gone to bed two hours ago.
-
If Shadoweh was third party, would your role catch her as scum?
-
I do sound like a Psychopath but I assure you I am both Town and that no part of my role registers me as scum. No one's getting shot until my imposed deadline anyways. Now I'm going to go try that sleep thing that worked for four hours earlier.
-
Okay, back from uni.
Firstly.
Kilgamayan: Why shouldn't we touch any of them?
Especially PescarEdible considering how we have almost no content from him.
Anyway.
Edible: Care to elaborate on why logic tells you Schezo is a zombie? Process of elimination?
PX: Do people that aren't Shadoweh exist in your eyes?
-
Peaches and milk will help me sleep I hope. :ohdear:
I've realized I'm explaining the Traitor thing wrong according to the wiki. It's listed as a role but it's technically a third party scum alignment that wins with scum and knows who all the scum are. At most the zombies knew there was a Traitor out there that they could recruit.
-
25 Hours Till Someone Gonna Eat Buckshot
Bardiche
Colt
Kilgamayan
Schezo
Zakeri
-
Just woke up, need to go to work very soon, will do my best there to re-evaluable who I think is scum in light of what people have discussed about the traitor role.
I'll be honest: I rarely read flavor, opting to skip to the important part, and when I saw a red role with "power to redirect town's night actions" I assumed it meant scum regardless of the role name (especially since the traitors I've played with in the past were pretty much just VTs that won with the scum instead of being actual factual disconnected scum like Hourai apparently was - Carthrat's Turncoat role being one pseudoexample of such a role taking place here). Assuming Hourai was disconnect scum means that my entire overnight foundation for analyzing wagons gets flipped on its ear. However, it also means things like this
I was getting townie vibes from him D1, but now that you mention it, he was on the Conqueror wagon, so... hm. I have not done an in-depth look at him, so.
don't apply as much as people that notice them may like, because if we to are assume scum did not know Hourai was his role, then, from scum's point of view, the Conqueror/Hourai situation was town/town (with the additional likely scenario that Serela was town), and they would have approached it as such, rather than trying to steer the wagons away from a known buddy. Unless people wish to assert that scum were positive at that point in the game that Hourai was a secret buddy, but that seems rather far-fetched.
Not a whole lot I can do about learning "gut" says I should die, but I can at least respond to these:
I have a question for him though, why did he step up to defend PX on speaking in the third person?
This is kind of a heavily-worded question since I don't know how much you want to call what I said "defending", but I said what I said because I had remembered it occurring once before, so I thought it odd that huh what would only question it now.
Kilgamayan: Why shouldn't we touch any of them?
Because of their interactions with Hourai and circumstances surrounding him yesterday. huh what had been gunning for him almost the entire game, Serela was the alternative filibuster choice and Pesco and UK landed on Hourai at rather crucial times.
I could get behind any of Colt, Schezo or Zakeri eating it, Colt's been barely here at all, Zakeri had that Day 1 to end all Day 1s and Schezo's dance and disappearance at the end of yesterday still weirds me out. Bard I hesitate, as he has at least been here saying intelligent things and taking obvious stances, even if UK turned out to be town and huh what also seems to be.
-
*re-evaluate
herp Edible on the brain
-
Also might as well do this, assuming Shadoweh's self-destruction upon role usage will indeed take place.
##Unvote
##Vote: Schezo
Best overlap with current opinions and the two provided lists, even with the offered explanation about how his day ended. Though I suppose actually voting for anyone on Shadoweh's list has less impact than a vote normally does.
-
Though I guess I shouldn't hesitate on thinking Bard to be scum given Edible's list and Shadoweh's supposed impending town flip. Unless I want to entertain the possibility of huh what being scum.
Which I suppose is actually much less impossible than I first thought because he would not have known he was bussing a buddy all day yesterday.
-
multi-post drifting wheeeeeeeeeeeeee
k work
-
posting from work wheeeeeeeeeeeee
Also I suppose it's entirely possible Edible is lying given he has a history of lying about his role as town (or is potentially simply a lying scum), but I did not get scummy impressions from Pesco and this would be a rather egregious lie as town even for him, especially in the face of Shadoweh's vig claim, given the two claims were basically guaranteed to be used in conjunction with each other.
-
The previous post is indeed mine. I will try to remember to use this account at work from now on, sorry.
-
Kilgamayan: I'm not sure if sextuplet posting is as town as triple posting! Honestly, logic also says you should die. Conqueror's wagon was you, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what on and off, and NeoSerela promising a vote before Conqueror claimed. You're the only person on this list that isn't leaning town right now. If you were the one with the gun in this situation would you be inclined to believe everyone on this wagon was town? I also have to ask, why didn't the fact that Conqueror's wagon was unopposed cause you to question it?
-
Schezo and Bardiche have their moments. I decided to post every reference they make to each other, and I would like to hear more considering Edible?s claim.
I?ll post their cases on eachother:
Schezo on Bardiche:
Bardiche makes a good post on his reappearance which I agree with.
And Bard hasn?t actually said anything about Schezo yet.
Furthermore, Bard did actually say in post 800 of the RPG mafia thread that if UK dies night one, Bard is probably scum and we should lynch him. I just didn?t believe he was serious at the time, but now that we?ve narrowed down our candidates a bit it occurs to me that he may have actually meant it.
In addition, if we have a player capable of checking, it may be necessary for one of us to check on Edible?s role/alignment. I don?t think he?s lying, but if scum wanted to distract us, this would be a very good way to do it, as it would take several kills to confirm his claim.
-
capt.h: I would be surprised if we had another cop. It's not likely we can check alignments. As Kilga pointed out Edible is just as likely to lie as Town anyways. My list hasn't changed yet and Bardiche is a serious contender for face bullets.
-
Kilgamayan: I'm not sure if sextuplet posting is as town as triple posting!
Well, throughout the whole process, I was:
- Still waking up
- Getting ready for work
- Leaving for work
- Actually AT work where the majority of my attention was diverted to something more important
- Logged into an account different from the one with which I signed up and had played the overwhelming majority of the game (some people like to go through posts by viewing individual posting history)
and I'm not sure why town would not be susceptible to having incomplete thoughts during such a process.
Conqueror's wagon was you, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what on and off, and NeoSerela promising a vote before Conqueror claimed. You're the only person on this list that isn't leaning town right now. If you were the one with the gun in this situation would you be inclined to believe everyone on this wagon was town?
I would be inclined to think things through and make sure I made the most informed decision possible before using a vigilante shot that will kill me as well. I'm certainly not going to say I'm not deserving of suspicion because ultimately my vote was placed poorly and everyone else that voted for Conqueror either looks really good or has flipped town, but to kneejerk and think "only one person on a townie wagon doesn't look really town therefore they must be scum" is a little premature.
I also have to ask, why didn't the fact that Conqueror's wagon was unopposed cause you to question it?
What about it was unopposed? It never reached more than 4 votes on a 9-to-lynch day, there were a smattering of other cases all throughout the day before his claim, and a couple of people vocalized disinterest/distaste in the case, such as yourself. If it hit something like L-2 with no one objecting to it then I'd buy your idea that it was unopposed, but given what really happened I cannot agree with that assessment at all. It looks pretty opposed in this vote count, for example. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582906.html#msg582906))
Furthermore, Bard did actually say in post 800 of the RPG mafia thread that if UK dies night one, Bard is probably scum and we should lynch him. I just didn?t believe he was serious at the time, but now that we?ve narrowed down our candidates a bit it occurs to me that he may have actually meant it.
This was a joke based on past interactions. I wouldn't put any stock into it whatsoever.
Since I am likely to have someone claim I am doing nothing but defending myself, I would again like to propose Schezo as an alternate choice. His end-of-day dance may not have been scum buddy confusion but it certainly looks like it also could have been indecision and paranoia from not wanting to draw too much attention should whoever he vote for actually get selected and flip town since that would put a lot of scrutiny on him. His explanation is more of an apology and may be accepted as such in postgame once everyone has flipped (if he turns out to be town) but not right now for reasons that should be obvious.
-
Hourai actively tried to make a case against Huh What here:
@huh what
So you admit jumping on a wagon instead of trying to lynch the person you find scummiest. Am I correct in assuming so?
New replyYou seem more intent on pushing others (me) as scum, even thought you're voting him. And I never called it "weak," I said it was weaker than mine.
Good job on twisting my words.
And also, fun fact, you've never said him or his actions have been scummy until your recent posts. It's always something else. You've tip-toed around that subject even though you say you've
I just find that neat.
And Hourai doesn't even mention Bard or Kilgamayan. The entirety of his schezo mentions are:
And my last point here, Zak
Hi there. He pops in to say why voting newbies is bad, and then points outs to UK that she is wrong in voting capt. h, when she isn't even voting him. And then he goes and throws a vote on Schezo because he played scummy last game in retrospect. What? How are you helping town by doing that. RVS is over and doing that cannot be considered hunting in the slightest.
and
@Schezo
No.
From Edible's claim that of Kilga, Bard, Schezo, Shadoweh, and Huhwhat, two of them are scum, I think Hourai probably avoided talking about scum buddies altogether and focused on townies he could make look like scum. I think we can use the omission of players from Hourai's posts to help us find both two of Edible's scum, and maybe even the scum Edible's test didn't cover.
-
Ugh, of all the days to be ridiculously busy at work.
Some notes:
-Kilga avoided discussion of Hourai like the plague yesterday, referring to him only in passing or when someone else mentioned him. This is less of a scumtell than I'd like it to be given the potential nature of Hourai's traitor role, but it is still rather worrisome especially considering his stances on Conq/Serela/Shadoweh.
-Bardiche placed the tying vote on Hourai to tie him with Serela yesterday, which gives him more credibility in my eyes. He was on huh what earlier in the day but I wasn't getting good vibes from huh what myself during the earlier parts of my readthrough.
-Schezo is outright bad. "I think Shadoweh is scum! *votes*" "I think Serela is scum! *votes*" (later on, with hourai leading) "I thought hourai was scum the entire time! *votes*"
My preferred course of action today would be to shoot Kilga and hang Schezo.
-
This may sound like a silly question, but Shadoweh, where did you suspicions of huh what go, given that scum would not have known who the traitor was (and thus huh what could theoretically have been bussing a buddy without being aware of it)?
I think I would prefer the reverse order of Edible's actions (unless I'm taken out of them entirely) but I'm rather biased on the subject. :C
-
Also, this is a general notice and not directed to anyone in particular.
For the love of god, stop with the "You may wish to review your post." copy/pasting every time it happens. <_<; It's gotten old and is distracting.
-
re: Edible: At the time I voiced Hourai dislike and voted NeoS. I had thought to myself that the day was already so late I didn't think that people were willing to just switch to Hourai over the little content he posted. Of course after the radio incident and coming out with a pretty ridiculous claim I felt the need to vote him.
I think it's been mentioned already, but this is quick posttm and I'll continue it when I get back but there seems to be nothing to prevent him from lying about who Pesco chose to blood test and how many results actually came back. It could be an easy way for scum to stall for time while we lynch everyone on that list and only verify it when they are all dead since the cop died last night too.
Shadoweh seems to be holding it over everyone's heads that she is holier than thou and doesn't have to scumhunt. Even if you are using your vig for town purposes, I don't like that.
More later.
-
VOTECOUNT - Going For Another 15 Pages? Edition
Shadoweh (3): NeoSerela, PX, Schezo, huh what, Kilgamayan
PX (2): Dormio, capt. h
Schezo (1): Kilgamayan
Colt (1): huh what
Not Voting: Bardiche, Colt, Edible, Shadoweh, Zakeri
With 12 votes in play, 7 are required to lynch. Less than fifty-five and a half hours remain in the day.
-
Low presence, posts full of waffles, awkward jump on capt. h followed by an empty unvote, showed a desire to get on a flipped townie wagon but lacked the conviction to actually do so. None of these are traits I like to see in newbies, and I think his intention to jump on Conqueror is as damning as those who actually did so, if not worse.
The first two cannot be called valid reasons to determine I'm scum. Capt.h acted weirdly around the first parts of the game so it would only be natural for someone who can't easily understand advanced explanations like me to come to that conclusion at first. Everyone's reasons for voting Conqueror seemed convincing enough for me (esp from Affinity and Kilga) but Conqueror promised a full defense post (which turned out to be a claim), from which I wanted to see before placing my vote.
Colt is a non-presence. He didn't bother to make a case yesterday. Same with Zakeri actually. These two need to actually contribute before I can decide which is worse.
Firstly, I absolutely don't have any objections to the using your power.
I don't really understand why Kilga needs to die at all. From D1 his posts seem to stand out positively to me.
I can't give any opinion on Bardiche until he posts (but I do expect more lashing) and Zakeri as well.
My opinion on Edible's blood testing: Thinking from a scum's perspective, that result would only help scum if the five names brought up are all town. Unless its some sort of super risk of exposing another scum, I don't find any room for lying.
Overall I thought I could give some words at the end (when everything speaks the loudest) in D1 but Conqueror's ability pretty much changed the whole situation. I read a bit more before being assured that Hourai would be the target for Conqueror's ability.
-
We have three potential targets: Kilgamayan, Bardiche, and Schezo. One of them is probably town. Two of them are probably scum. And once the townie dies, his role probably becomes useless. We also have about 18 hours until Shadoweh uses her ability to take one of them out.
Would now be a good time to suggest that these three role claim? The townie won't be able to use his role if we kill him, and it will give us something to work with as we decide who is scum.
-
You can't ignore Bardiche and huh what who still may be scum, no matter how low the chances are.
-
As much as I wouldn't particularly think the guy scum without the bucket list, I'm getting increasingly nervous at people narrowing this selection down to three people and excluding huh what from consideration. Edible at least is on record as saying "Neither gut nor logic tell me he's scum" but I'm not seeing that so much from others like Cap and Shadoweh (and after all that time Shadoweh spent bashing huh what for supposedly trying to set up a false dichotomy, we may end up with a false trichotomy that excludes him).
-
Kilgamayan: You can't tell when I'm joking :< The triple posting thing is something I said last game. I agree that at one point my wagon almost rose to the same place as Conqueror's but that didn't last long at all and Affinity was succeeding in his quest for Conqueror's One True Lynch. By the time he claimed it was because the only case people could agree on was his. Considering I'm not going to shoot myself and you will hold you are also town, if Schezo is scum do you think his buddy is Bardiche or huh what and why? My suspicions of huh what are lowered because of Hourai's interactions with him (not the reverse) and because he offered me a partial clear before I pulled out my gun when I was looking to be the easiest Day 2 lynch ever.
Schezo: I'm glad you're not misrepping me again about me saying I don't have to scumhunt today or something.. oh wait. Can't wait to see what you say about who you actually think is a zombie.
Colt: You CAN give an opinion on Bardiche before he makes another post! He has posted earlier, take a look at them and say what you think. That you didn't even say which of Serela or Hourai you wanted to flip if you were here and watching looks bad for you. There are eleven players besides yourself you can have an opinion on and they don't have to be on Edible's list. Answer with the names of at least two players. Who do you think is scum right now?
-
As much as I wouldn't particularly think the guy scum without the bucket list, I'm getting increasingly nervous at people narrowing this selection down to three people and excluding huh what from consideration. Edible at least is on record as saying "Neither gut nor logic tell me he's scum" but I'm not seeing that so much from others like Cap and Shadoweh (and after all that time Shadoweh spent bashing huh what for supposedly trying to set up a false dichotomy, we may end up with a false trichotomy that excludes him).
The reason I do not believe Huh What is scum is because Hourai tried to start a train on him in post #255 and post #260. Hourai tries to bring attention to several players. However, he does not mention you or Bard, and doesn't attack Schezo at all. Regardless of theory about what "traitor" means, we agree Hourai knew who the scum were, and I would be very surprised if Hourai tried to attack and draw attention to a scum buddy.
That's not to say Huh What is above suspicion, but there is reason to beleive he is town at the moment.
-
Two things of note.
1) My results specifically told me at least two of the five were zombies. I realize this is unlikely but it's possible there's more than just two.
2) I will still heavily favor the lynch or shooting of any one of the remaining people on my list once today is over, should we not hit one or both scum. This does not mean we should stop looking at other people, though I agree that we have more immediate priorities today.
...
Additionally, I'm worried that Kilga is pushing the "traitor = unknown to scum" thing as hard as he is. Upon further consideration, it seems obvious that Traitor Mad Scientist is <Alignment> <Role Name>, not <Role Name> <Role Name>. Hourai was a scum team member and therefore other scum knew who he was; I see no reason to doubt this anymore. This further brightens my opinions of huh what and Bardiche.
-
Edible: :< What did I say earlier?
The Traitor is a role with a pro-Mafia alignment that is not actually in the Mafia family.
I'm positive this means it would come up as an alignment. Everything else about the flip and his abilities points to this description of how Traitors work. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Traitor)
-
Busy, but going to throw in my two cents over this traitor stuff.
If Hourai did not have the scum quicktopic, then there is absolutely no good explanation for how he knew what was going on in the radio conversations.
Being handed a radio reciever by someone does not count as a "good explanation" IMO, as this seems rather far-fetched, and it was not included in his role flip so it isn't part of his role (which I would find very odd anyway). I wouldn't be horribly surprised (though would not expect) if a scum had a radio reciever as their role or something, but I'd find it very strange for it to be passable to other people. My own reciever isn't, either, for that matter.
Also, it's been pretty inferrable, not never clearly and directly stated; Shadoweh, does using your vig kill you as well as your target? I don't want you alive tomorrow going "I never explicitly stated I'd die right when I used it!". Just covering bases, here. I'd prefer a full claim while you're at it, since you've been rather unclear on exactly what your role is other then able to kill someone and possibly harmful to yourself.
-
Who do you think is scum right now?
Everyone on Edible's test list, except for you and kilga, which is why I hope they can claim as well.
-
Serela: I have no intention of unvagueing my role any more then I already have. I don't think he was handed a receiver by 'someone', I believe it was given to him by Serpentarius to be used until he was recruited as a zombie and lost the ability to use it. I'd like to point out that by your reasoning, when I flip Town you're going to get yourself killed.
Colt: That's a good start. There is a high percentage of at least one scum not being on that list. Who do you think it would be and why?
-
The one player everyone seems to agree is probably scum is Schezo. Regardless of how Hourai's role works, I have seen no one defend him.
Incidentally, if Schezo is town, I think he should tell us the details of his role now.
I think Huh What is town because Hourai attacked him. And since I think Hourai was a traitor in role, that implies bard is town because a quick vote change from him would have saved hourai.
Of the two people we kill today, if Kilga is one of them, I think he should be second. He is one of the most intelligent posters and far more frequent than Bard and Schezo, so we will have far more information to work with if we give him an extra 32 hours to live than if we give it to Bard or Schezo. This assumes that Huh What is town, which while I think he is town, has not been confirmed yet.
-
I am not in the best mental condition right now.
Anyway.
Colt: You're doing that thing where you're coming in to say nothing.
I mean, you haven't had a vote on anyone the entire game. (Bar one on capt. h that was removed in your next post)
The first two cannot be called valid reasons to determine I'm scum.
Early game, sure, why not.
However, lurking and inactivity does not benefit town at all.
Also, do you have any reason why you think that huh what/Bardiche/Schezo are scum?
Like, other than the fact that they're on a list that could have been faked?
And why does Kilgamayan/Shadoweh get a clear from you?
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
3 hours of sleep, yo.
And I still haven't finished that assignment.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Bleh.
-
Additionally, I'm worried that Kilga is pushing the "traitor = unknown to scum" thing as hard as he is. Upon further consideration, it seems obvious that Traitor Mad Scientist is <Alignment> <Role Name>, not <Role Name> <Role Name>. Hourai was a scum team member and therefore other scum knew who he was; I see no reason to doubt this anymore. This further brightens my opinions of huh what and Bardiche.
I have mentioned it as much as I have because everyone else seems rather convinced it is the case. There have been several piece of evidence people have pointed to, between flavor and the Wiki, and for you to say "it seems obvious Traitor is the team name" when it does not seem obvious at all (and, in fact, several people have agreed the opposite to be the more likely scenario) with nothing to back up this assertion does not do much for my opinion of you.
-
I mean, Bard is town if Hourai is known to scum. If bard isn't known to scum, then we don't have that.
@ Dormio - What do you think of Huh What, Bardiche, Schezo, and Kilgamayan?
-
@Mod: Is Hourai's alignment flip "traitor", or was that part of his role?
@Shadoweh: I suppose we can debate this forever, but you should know that the mafiascum wiki definition of traitor is by no means the only one. Additionally, Hourai's ability was mod-confirmed upon flip and had nothing to do with your stereotypical traitor role.
@Serela: Can you summarize the receiver situation for me? The mad post-rushing from yesterday seems to have confused the issue for me. What did you do, to whom, and what happened as a result?
-
ebwop
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Stop doing this please. :V
-
Edible: huh what already tried that. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584915.html#msg584915)
I'll organize my thoughts and post them once I finish and hand in this assignment and get back home. (Around 7~8 hours later)
-
Well, this game moves a little faster than the regular.
re: dropping my pressure on UK. Uh, well, didn't I already explain it's useless to leave my vote on someone who doesn't even deign to respond to an inquiry? I thought it'd be obvious from how I said how I thought the UK thing would resolve itself, and it did, because I did indeed kill UK.
If Edible's role works as advertised then the game's just about won, since at least two scum are hopelessly cornered in a list of five, and if Shadoweh shoots one and dies herself, it leaves three people to lynch. Two are scum, so in the worst case scenario we drop to around 7 players with one scum remaining. I reserve some fright over if town has roles this powerful (Mass Cop Check, always useful; vigilant Cop; and Guaranteed Scum Lynch Or Golden Townie) what sort of powers Scum may have.
Could someone make clear what the case of allegiations against me is? Shadoweh's declaring she wants to shoot me, and I haven't yet divined what the chief reason here is.
I still maintain that, despite Kilgamayan's trust in huh what, huh what is not the golden townie he would have us believe he is. This first post he makes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584844.html#msg584844) is a wall of opinions that amounts to "Shadoweh is scum, PX is scummy but probably not Shadoweh's scumbuddy and Colt is newbscummy", without actually providing a reason for the suspicion that Colt is newbscummy.
After all, if he waffles and has no clear stances, I would surmise experienced scum would assist in providing reasoning. And if they would not, would Colt then not become a prime lynch target for the supposed waffles, as indecision is not a town benefit?
I share the belief that Hourai being specifically named "Traitor" when everyone else flipped "Town" indicates a traitor role, which would not be absurd given the "experimental roles" we were promised and thus some outlandish roles such as Multi-Cop Edible and Vigilant Cop UK hanging about. Having said that, it means Hourai flipping scum does nothing to improve my opinion of huh what, as he could have been bussing a buddy unintentionally.
Indeed, Hourai challenging huh what to vote him instead of Conqueror would be bitter irony on Hourai's part, perhaps even willingness to be bussed? I don't know, I'm hanging into WIFOm there.
In summation,
##VOTE: huh what
Going to read over the other scum Edible found (assuming Edible speaks the truth, which at this stage seems a major gambit if he does not speak true) and then probably see where I stand on Schezo, Kilgamayan and, oh, Shadoweh and I. I suspect if Shadoweh speaks the truth a case on her would fruitlessly end in getting my face shot, and I'm never a fan of self-lynch...
So Schezo and Kilga it is.
-
Edible: huh what already tried that. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584915.html#msg584915)
Yeah, I'm just rephrasing the question so it's more appropriate. I believe it's okay to know if someone is a "Traitor" "Mad Scientist" as opposed to a "Traitor Mad Scientist," if you follow my meaning.
Ninja by a polearm. For the record, I have not given huh what a full town clear (any more than I've given you one), simply that I feel you two are less DEVILISHLY EVIL than Schezomayan. I already intend to turn up the heat on you three (shadoweh included) should one or none flip scum. That sort of thought process.
-
To answer Shadoweh: Either PX or to a lesser extent Zakeri. PX's play even to me does not seem impressive at all, don't really know why he'll ramble on this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585006.html#msg585006) and all that other misc jazz, seems to me he's just trying to keep a perfect record of some sort, and he still has unanswered cases against him. Zakeri maybe, but he needs to talk more.
Basically, I suspect both Schezo and PX.
Until PX says something convincing (which would be easy since I am quite convinced at nearly everything said in this topic)
##Vote: PX
Colt: You're doing that thing where you're coming in to say nothing.
I mean, you haven't had a vote on anyone the entire game. (Bar one on capt. h that was removed in your next post)Early game, sure, why not.
However, lurking and inactivity does not benefit town at all.
Also, do you have any reason why you think that huh what/Bardiche/Schezo are scum?
Like, other than the fact that they're on a list that could have been faked?
And why does Kilgamayan/Shadoweh get a clear from you?
I lurked because I feel that the end points of the Day are the better opportunities because there's more information to be quoted. D1 had conqueror which fixed things there.
Right now I think Schezo is the more likely one to be scum. Stuff brought up against him seem convincing enough for me and he has yet to respond. As I've already mentioned eariler I think the list is not likely to be faked because it'd be more risky for scum if it was faked. More RISKy.
I've already mentioned on Kilga and Shadoweh gets clear because she'll be able to prove her power once she executes it.
-
Edible: I think you're right about the question. If it doesn't clear things up for us though I maintain my belief of how it works. I... wait what?
re: dropping my pressure on UK. Uh, well, didn't I already explain it's useless to leave my vote on someone who doesn't even deign to respond to an inquiry? I thought it'd be obvious from how I said how I thought the UK thing would resolve itself, and it did, because I did indeed kill UK.
Did you just claim another nightkill role?
After all, if he waffles and has no clear stances, I would surmise experienced scum would assist in providing reasoning. And if they would not, would Colt then not become a prime lynch target for the supposed waffles, as indecision is not a town benefit?
I'm pretty sure this argument is WIFOM because it argues that Colt is being lurknewbscum but other scum would stop him from being lurkscum therefore his waffling and having no stance is town. If you think you have a case on someone not on Edible's list I would still like to see it.
-
I lurked because I feel that the end points of the Day are the better opportunities because there's more information to be quoted. D1 had conqueror which fixed things there.
Imagine if everyone thought that way. :/
but he needs to talk more.
Oh, the irony.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Anyway, I really need to stop distracting myself from assignment.
-
Did you just claim another nightkill role?
ahahaha I missed that
@Caedo: I warned you.
-
@Shadoweh: An astute observation. I claim the kill on UK indeed.
-
@Serela: Can you summarize the receiver situation for me? The mad post-rushing from yesterday seems to have confused the issue for me. What did you do, to whom, and what happened as a result?
alksdfhlasdfasd
I start the game with a Reciever Station and two handheld radio sets. During the confirmation phase, I may pass these handheld sets to people anonymously. I do not get the pass the reciever station.
Whoever has the handheld radio sets may send messages to eachother. These messages seem to be recieved in batches every 24 hours. Since I have a reciever station, I also get all the sent messages, but I may not send them unless I have a handheld radio set.
I gave a set to UK and Shadoweh. At some point early on, Shadoweh sent a message with a mafia spoof of the Pokemon theme song. Later, Hourai said "LOL UK YU LEIK POKEMANS?" or something to that effect to help confirm his counterclaim on me that I'm lying because Hourai has a reciever station. Shadoweh supported Hourai and tried to make it look like I wasn't telling the truth after I also provided evidence that I had a reciever station.
Hourai's flip shows that no, the reciever station was not a part of his role. This points heavily to a conclusion that he had access to the scum quicktopic and someone in said quicktopic had knowledge of the radio conversations.
Shadoweh, who looks scummier with every post she makes IMO, and is someone who would have said knowledge, proposes that Hourai did NOT have quicktopic access and that he instead had a reciever station that he lost/would be lost when he was recruited to the scum team and that's why it was not in his flip.
That proposal sounds incredibly ridiculous to me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to make a paragraph on why Kilga is looking very off to me right now but my brain cannot think of how to make the words mean what I want them to mean, so I'll revisit that later. I don't like Dormio at all either but I can't even remember why because irritating at Shadoweh is getting in the way.
Serela: I have no intention of unvagueing my role any more then I already have.
Uuuugh. Pray tell why? You have hinted at your power killing you when you vig someone. You refuse to confirm this, despite the fact that if you DO die then we'll have your role fairly soon anyway, and if you DON'T die then we'll obviously know you aren't dead. This seems strange that you would want so much to keep even THAT little bit of your role a mystery.
If you don't die upon it's use, I'm seeing you as scum trying to get themselves out of being today's lynch, which I will still very much want you to be over anyone else.
God, have I really not even gotten around to commenting on Edible's list/Shadoweh's potential targets? For now I'll just say that Shadoweh seriously needs to vig someone who is ON THAT LIST, as at the moment I would like to believe Edible isn't lying.
ninjas:what bard is the kittenkiller
Would you like to enlighten us, Bard, as to whether that's the only kill you can do or if you will be able to nightkill again at a later point in the game? You don't have to answer I guess, but I figured I'd at least try.
-
To twist my words into "Colt's waffling and having no stance is town" isn't very becoming, by the way. What I meant to say is that his "waffling" because an excuse for newbscum is grounded in the belief that no one on the scum team would either try to assist Colt in providing arguments, or try to bus the hell out of him for waffling so hard.
Put simply I think it's a stronger case of derptown than scum. It's really not a scumtell given the general lack of experienced players MotK carries to its games, and jumping on derpisms as if it is a serious scumtell is as old as sin in the mafia games here. It's honestly trite and boring.
-
@Shadoweh: An astute observation. I claim the kill on UK indeed.
Then I claim you're either an idiot or scum.
##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche
-
Ergh.
Bard is probably going to claim town here so that puts us in a fairly ridiculous situation.
I refuse to believe there are three vig power roles on town's side. UK flipped town and she was one. Shadoweh claimed town earlier and she's supposedly able to prove hers, and now Bard claimed UK's death.
Basically, one of you is lying (unless Bard claims third-party or, uh, scum).
-
capt. h:And how is Bardiche scum, again?
-
capt. h:And how is Bardiche scum, again?
Only scum could get away with claiming night kill powers and not expect a knife in the back the next morning.
So he either made himself tonight's primary target for scum, or is scum himself.
-
It occurred to me upon my drive home that Edible was suggesting "Traitor" was the alignment name (and thus that there are no actual zombies).
It puts an intersting spin on the provided list should Hourai have been normal scum, because I'm not particularly inclined to think huh what or Bard (pre-claim) scum without the list for reasons similiar to the reasons I'm not inclined to think Edible himself scum. I would like to stick around long enough to think things through once Schezo's flip is seen, and in thinking about someone else (I think Cap but again car thinking and also second job gotta hurry) mentioning they'd rather see Schezo get killed first because I'm a more powerful player or whatever it does ping me as extra odd that Edible would want me off the table as fast as possible when dead is dead and getting lynched theoretically shouldn't matter in comparison to geting vig killed in terms of surviving to see Night 2. Schezo's flip would go a long way toward helping me help the rest of town piece the mystery together, arguably more than my flip would help him given I've been posting more and people seem to like me better sans the list. >_>
tl;dr I'd much rather Schezo get the vig kill so I can at least do something useful for town before I die.
Ninja'd hrairfold. Is UK confirmed vig or are people just assuming that based on her role name?
-
UncertainKitten, Town Cowboy Cop, capable of investigating on every other night, and of using a night vigilante shot at the cost of losing all future investigations, was killed during the night!
Frankly, I was originally under the impression that UK killed Affinity. Because that's what she does.
-
Serela: You don't like my claim? :dealwithit:
Because you are the only person I thought was Town before more flips got underway you are the only person right now who got to see my opinions before I gave my radio up. You are a part of an interesting Lynch all Liars situation I would like to set up though. Whoever has the radio right now, I demand that you send a message identifying yourself over the radio along with a word or phrase that you will sneak into your post after the message will have gotten to NeoSerela so he can 100% confirm who has it right now.
Bardiche: I consider that an adequate answer to my question but still need to see your cases today.
Kilgamayan: Uh. Go read what UK's power flipped as.
-
it does ping me as extra odd that Edible would want me off the table as fast as possible when dead is dead and getting lynched theoretically shouldn't matter in comparison to geting vig killed in terms of surviving to see Night 2.
I mostly wanted you shot because you're very good at arguing your way out of a lynch, and didn't want to have to deal with that. :V I will agree that you're otherwise far more useful alive for an extra day compared to Schezo.
I am quite serious in my intent to pursue every one of my five listed targets until I see two red flips; no use letting a good investigative role go to waste. It just happens that you are (or, er... were, depending on how this Bardiche/Shadoweh thing plays out) one of the two most likely to be zombified.
-
argh you people post way too much, i can't write a post when there are like 5 or so new shocking revelations every time i check back in the thread
-
Kilga: UK is confirmed vig (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584842.html#msg584842)
capt.h:There are reasons scum might hold off on the kill. People who might protect said person, bulletproofs, serialkillers (who also tend to be bulletproof), etc. Although I do understand what you mean.
Edible: :V :V :V Well I'd assume she'd at least use investigation on the first night, and then Nightvig on N2 when her investigate is cooling down.
Shadoweh:Amusing that you say that, considering you should know who you passed it to. UK's radio set was returned to me, by the way. I have not sent any messages yet, nor have I recieved any, and I am frankly concerned that with my role information out there, it may be on a scum who would lie to me about their identity.
I am going to ask right now. WHOEVER HAS MY RADIO, EITHER CLAIM IT INTHREAD OR DO THAT THING SHADOWEH JUST SAID.
Which I shall quote for EMPHASIS. :3
Whoever has the radio right now, I demand that you send a message identifying yourself over the radio along with a word or phrase that you will sneak into your post after the message will have gotten to NeoSerela so he can 100% confirm who has it right now.
Although, to be honest, I'm not sure if the radio is going to be very helpful for me to use right now unless whoever has it is going to reveal secret information in it's privacy. But perhaps I am underestimating it.
huhwhatninja:but SHOCKING REVELATIONs are cool and awesome!
-
it may be on a scum who would lie to me about their identity.
and/or role info which would be easier and safer to lie about
-
Knowing the location of the radios is incredibly benificial to me, though. :V
Speaking of which, does anybody know what happened to Set A after UK's death?
-
I CAN'T FUCKING READ SORRY SERELA
-
:smug:
-
Warning - choo choo i'm a train
Uh, what is this?
-
I believe I asked you to cease a certain activity. :smug:
-
The shocking revelations are suposed to happen after I die :<
That's an interesting bit of WIFOM though. @mod Do scum have to nightkill every night? Do we even know?
Serela: Should is the key word, that's exactly why I'm demanding they reveal it to you in that way. If you got the radio back you should have realized by now why I don't think Hourai's radio listening device would be listed in his flip. UK had her radio when she died and it didn't show up.
Is that a word filter? Edibad.
-
Is that a word filter? Edibad.
I can't help it! It's annoying!
-
UK had her radio when she died and it didn't show up.
It also was not a part of her role and returned to me upon her death.
The same does not apply unless Hourai was given the Radio Reciever by someone else, I suggestion I find preposterous.
edible:oh u :]
-
(Apologies for suddenly being Baity formatting-wise, but there's a lot to talk about and I'd like to seperate the important stuff from everything else.)
I dislike like how people are throwing around Edible conspiracy theories so soon. The notion that a scum would make a claim like this with a vig around when said scum has generally flown under the radar and is not even close to being on the chopping block is pretty ridiculous.
It should be noted that I strongly believe Shadoweh to be town at this juncture due to the circumstances of her claim if the theories about Hourai being a traitor are true, and that I also know for a fact that she did not attempt to do anything other than pass on the radio last night (which means that her being a scum dayvig going on the NK is out of the picture). I'm also aware of who currently has Set B, but I will keep quiet about that if they do not want to disclose it publically.
Schezo is definitely my first choice out of all Edible's targets right now. His ED2 wagon jump on her seems way too much like he's using the opinions of a dead townie in lieu of his own, and his attacks on Shadoweh in general have often come off as reportery shotgun attacks without any significantly heavy points to hang her over. As for people other than Shadoweh, Schezo's opinions on them typically boil down to one-liners which do not clearly reveal any particular suspicion. I re-read through all his posts and could honestly not tell who else he thought was scum at all, and his completely unexplained change of heart from PX being a blatant bandwagonner (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581829.html#msg581829) to a decent-looking player with conviction cleared by meta (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583598.html#msg583598) struck me as a bit odd especially. I'd like to see him go back and explain how that happened, considering how I was pressured for something similiar. Schezo's one-liner opinions on players other than Shadoweh are actually rather inconsistant in general if you look at his posting history, and he seems to discard and/or alter them fairly frequently between posts.
I also find his interactions with his Hourai vote to be very interesting, considering the traitor interactions and the possibility that Hourai had a buddy who could tap into the radio conversations. Between Schezo's Hourai vote and unvote, Hourai revealed that he had radio access, which could possibly mean that scum suddenly realized Hourai had access to their information and that he was likely to be the traitor (though this is relying on the belief that scum knew of the existance of a traitor beforehand).
As for Schezo's buddy, I find Kilgamayan to be the best choice there after looking into their interactions today, due to their blatant shilling of eachother in a few of their posts today making a link between them apparent. I strongly disagree with Kilga's claim that Schezo's other posts have been solid for reasons I have already explained and I would like him to elaborate on how the content was "solid", considering how easily Schezo altered everything aside from his Shadoweh case between posts. It should be noted that I don't think Kilga's recent pressure on Schezo makes them any less likely to be buddies, since if scum were in this situation it seems likely that bussing would be their best chance of recovering from it early on.
In spite of this, I actually have little on Kilga beyond his awkward link to Schezo, since it seemed to me that Kilga's vote on Conqueror was rather believable. I would strongly prefer to see Schezo eat the bullet first, since I have much more conviction on him and could definitely be convinced to attack somebody other than Kilga depending on the circumstances of Schezo's flip.
##Unvote
##Vote Schezo to reflect my opinions, though I really have no idea how we're even supposed to vote in this current situation anyway. <_< FWIW, I haven't dropped my charges against Colt either, but he's obviously not worth pursuing right now.
@Bardiche: You can't really fix something after it has already been posted, unless you're expecting that Colt's buddies would force him to run all his posts by them first, which I doubt. If you want to interpret Colt's actions from the PoV of somebody being carried through the game by buddies, it actually seems quite possible that they would request his help hammering on Conqueror, only for him to lose motivation out of fear somebody will jump on him for it.
It doesn't really seem like you have much on my D2 opener beyond the shaky attack on my Colt case, honestly. |:
Bard and Shadoweh should probably both fullclaim considering the circumstances of the day, seriously what the hell is up with so many vigs running around this game. (I'm actually wondering if a massclaim among Edible's targets might actually be helpful, since only two of us haven't softclaimed anyway. Not too sure thought due to a lack of experience with massclaims, so I'd like comments on this.) I would also like to know why Bard isn't even remotely suspicious that there's another claimed killing role running around when a townie has already flipped as a one-shot vig. That strikes me as off.
-
READIN'S FER YELLERBELLIES
Random things since I'm finally home and will be for all of 30 minutes before leaving again.
Three vig roles is bizarre but not necessarily impossible, especially given one of them is one-shot and a second one apparently kills the user after use.
I would agree that my recent interactions with Schezo aren't a tell in either direction, since I've been pretty pro-Bard and pro-huh what for a while, and Shadoweh will resolve herself, so there's only one place for me to go.
I said what I said about Schezo's earlier posts because there were clearly defined opinions within them (which is more than I could say for Dormio's posts, which I had recently finished going over). There is admittedly a lot of event description going on in them but often the descriptions are done with a slanted tone that helps me understand why he concluded what he did.
-
Kilgamayan: Considering I'm not going to shoot myself and you will hold you are also town, if Schezo is scum do you think his buddy is Bardiche or huh what and why?
Kilga, this was a thing that happened and you should probably answer.
huh what: See my answer to NeoSerela for further information on my claim.
-
I would likely choose huh what as scum over Bard because Bard's vote for Hourai was a much more critical juncture than huh what's what. huh what was present at the very beginning of the sequence that began with Conqueror's claim, vanished for a while when both trains picked up speed and then appeared again near the end when he would have looked pretty bad for pulling off of his main case of the day. In essence, his vote on Hourai came at a time when Hourai was less interesting and it was forced to stay there, while Bard's vote was more important to getting the Hourai wagon really going and much more of an active choice of Hourai over all of the other options presented. If Bard's vote was a bus it was an incredibly ballsy one: if huh what's vote was a bus it could very well have been because he couldn't pull off without making them both look really bad.
-
Don't all feel the need to post at once now.. Less then 12 hours before Vig Shots, how do they work? No changes to list.
@mod We should probably get a votecount to pretend they matter along with all those questions.
-
VOTECOUNT - Airport Thriller Novel Mafia Edition
Shadoweh (3): NeoSerela, PX, Schezo, huh what, Kilgamayan
Schezo (2): Kilgamayan, huh what
PX (2): Dormio, Colt, capt. h
Bardiche (1): capt. h
huh what (1): Bardiche
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: Edible, Shadoweh, Zakeri
With 12 votes in play, 7 are required to lynch. Less than 47 and a half hours remain in the day.
-
As for the questions, I've got to say that I can't answer either of them.
-
Considering that the one thing we all agree on is that Schezo's probably scum, I was kind of expecting he would post something. Some kind of defence, an attack on one of our other scum suspects. You know, anything really.
-
I figured the questions would be blanks.
@mod Zakeri hasn't posted in over 24 hours again, is he being prodded/replaced/kidnapped by chocobo lovers?
-
Just gave him another prod, if he's not posted in 48 more hours I'll modkill him.
-
I'll be distracted for the next 15 minutes or so, then I plan on going back through to look at the people I've more or less lost track of through the course of all these shenanigans, which would be PX, Cap and Colt. Dormio and Zakeri are as bad as they've always been, I've already covered Dormio and the Zakeri case speaks for itself at this point.
It figures that all of this would go down at the busiest point of my week, while I'm sick. >_>
-
Calm down everyone, Real life exists.
Ok, now this has infuriated me that you both, Shadoweh and NeoSerela, were hinting at revealing it if I didn't, I may as well because you seem to be holding it over my head. Yes I have the other goddamn radio. I was passed it last night but I would really like to know, why it freaking matters who has the radio at this point because last days debacle proved that there already were eavesdroppers and since Hourai's role didn't flat come out and say that the scum listening post or whatever it is has been killed along with him, do you really think I'm going to use the radio to just pass out information or even hold conversations with what could be scum and with scum possibly listening in? No, I'm not. As a paranoid townie they have no reason to get anymore information from me. What really is horrible in my eyes is that Shadoweh wants me to go through this whole big schpill over the radio and then confirm it in the thread, almost like she can see the radio messages too. Why both of you are gunning for this is ridiculous that you care and may try to bring up some stupid case like the one
But what's really awesome is that:
No, I'm not misrepping you Shadoweh. The attitude has been there since day one and I still don't feel it has gone away. Especially now that you want everyone else to roleclaim but you because you already said enough on the matter and no one else needs to know. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585455.html#msg585455) And you know, is it really that hard for the person holding a gun to my head to see that I think they are a zombie? A misrep is that right there. My points on you were combined with Affinity already pointing it out that your attitude or whatever alternate motives you had for not answering questions day one by hand waving them repeatedly and going off on a tangent.
A good answer to why Shadoweh is holding it over everyone's heads that they need to roleclaim now or get shot, is so that scum!Shadoweh can draw out any other townie powerroles because I'm expecting the wraith of God to be coming from scum with how powerful town is this game.
The big kicker in all this is that Edible himself could easily be lying and scum buddy Shadoweh can use just that doctor case as a perfectly legitimate reason to point a gun in people's direction that he hasn't even said anything about until Edible roleclaimed, like Kilgaman. Everyone buying it without a second question is baffling to me because without a cop we could all potentially lynch ourselves to death with that list and it would be too late to prove it's legitimacy.
NeoSerela: Look at my rant about the radio. I don't like you for that. Again, I'm not saying anything over the radio because there were two confirmed eavesdroppers and I don't know that the scum one is gone. But since you already can listen in on others conversations, it's entirely feasible that you may have been the one to tip Hourai off in the first place about what was going on.
it seems obvious that Traitor Mad Scientist is <Alignment> <Role Name>, not <Role Name> <Role Name>.
Thank you. While you all can argue that "the wiki says" the role doesn't even match up to what a typical traitor does so why is it really a traitor when Hourai also knew about the conversations on the radios and there was nothing about him having a receiving radio on his flip? That points to scum who was aware of it in the scum QT.
@Huh What: Except when mentioning PX you forgot the part where he posted and all. He started to say things I thought a townie would say and had some conviction behind his statements, even if I don't agree with all of them. As for the part about, Hourai: this is what I already said to that, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584985.html#msg584985) believe it or don't. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585363.html#msg585363) And Kilga said that he thought my earlier posts had opinions in them about what I thought.
-
pfft EBWOP: that sentance that cuts off for some reason, like the one you brought up on Hourai/NeoS yesterday.
-
Schezo: I've never actually asked anyone to roleclaim today. If I have, point out to me where I said that because I've forgotten. Other people have suggested it. I want you to scumhunt people that aren't me. Or Serela, who is either scum claiming scum repeatedly to me or is Town from my point of view. This is also why I believe what I believe about Hourai because I don't think Scum Serela would dig a hole like this for himself. When I flip Town the only person left to 'tip off the scum team' will be him. My question to you is if you have my radio and you can see what the name is, why did you flip out on me earlier for calling Serela for getting the name wrong?
-
Hello Schezo.
If Shadoweh doesn't die from the vig kill, then she's a likely lynch. We don't trust either Shaodweh or Edible completely, and they will likely be lynched if their claims are false. However, if they are scum buddies, Edible's claim does in fact implicate Shadoweh as scum, and in fact highlights her by placing her in our top five kills. Furthermore, no one has fully roleclaimed yet.
Personally, I do believe it would be a good idea to roleclaim, because I'm not confident you'll survive the day if you don't. It may give scum information, but it doesn't matter if scum knows the roles of dead players. Furthermore, it would give you a defense. However, if there is not benefit to you roleclaiming (due to lack of verifyability, NK vulnerability, etc.), then it doesn't really matter either way.
-
OK first, does the name of the radio matter?
It's called B, well marked it anyways.
second: I guess I was still thinking about the one from yesterday and how you say "tough" to people asking you to. That and I still can't even see if I'm in the imminent blast range because you keep asking questions and I have no idea how you are going to shoot other than random lists of people you consider worth shooting. (well not random random but no opinions behind who's getting shot and why)
Capt. H on the other hand was: Why are you fishing for roles? Shadoweh is probably the only one in position to ask this and she didn't which is confusing since you would think a vig who comes out and says, "lay your cases before me and I shoot whoever" would.
Oh cut by the man: But I would like to see some thought process behind why she's shooting who, not just us giving it to her. And yeah go ahead and say she's a likely lynch but when will it happen? After Edible's list is up and he rolls it up going, "Oh I guess there weren't any scum there after all." putting town in LYLO or already endgame?
-
OK first, does the name of the radio matter?
It's called B, well marked it anyways.
second: I guess I was still thinking about the one from yesterday and how you say "tough" to people asking you to. That and I still can't even see if I'm in the imminent blast range because you keep asking questions and I have no idea how you are going to shoot other than random lists of people you consider worth shooting. (well not random random but no opinions behind who's getting shot and why)
Capt. H on the other hand was: Why are you fishing for roles? Shadoweh is probably the only one in position to ask this and she didn't which is confusing since you would think a vig who comes out and says, "lay your cases before me and I shoot whoever" would.
Oh cut by the man: But I would like to see some thought process behind why she's shooting who, not just us giving it to her. And yeah go ahead and say she's a likely lynch but when will it happen? After Edible's list is up and he rolls it up going, "Oh I guess there weren't any scum there after all." putting town in LYLO or already endgame?
We are watching this vig kill on the assumption that it will kill Shadoweh. If the vig doesn't kill shadoweh, then she rises to the top of the list. Edible's list won't be empty if Shadoweh is scum, and if edible claims no scum on the list putting us into LYLO, we will likely kill Edible for his scummy acts.
I'm fishing for roles because scum often lie about roles. If there are two scum, and they claim like Hourai, then it will give town more information to go off of. Furthermore, it would be better for our targets, if they are town, to be given an opportunity to use their roles before we kill them than to kill them first. In addition, a beleivable role can help prevent us from shooting an innocent townie.
-
Also, the reason you are our top pick is because Edible claims two scum in his list, and by your theory of the "traitor" role Bard and Huh What aren't likely to be the two scum. Kilga would be far more useful with the extra 36 hours regardless of alignment due to his high post volume. And by the other theory of what "traitor" means, you would still be high on our target list. In both cases, you're the top pic for the vig kill.
-
Schezo: At the time? Yes, the name mattered. I asked Conqueror to claim both because he was going to get lynched and because I thought his power would mess with the items I thought myself and other people had and I wanted to know if my radio would be gone. Then Serela said his role gave me the radio later and I felt infinitely stupid. If I thought scum was on the other end of the radio I'd have more motive to talk to them, personally. And I'm probably not going to explain what I want from you. Calm down, think logically and if you are Town lay down your thoughts as if this may be your last day to say them.
I don't know why you all think I've claimed my vigilante shot will immediately kill me when I use it. Considering UncertainKitten's flip that wouldn't make any sense. It's not going to so stop making assumptions.
-
Okay I know I mentioned three people but I've only had the chance to look through Colt (because he's been so much nothing) while sniffling and watching the time tick away. I should have been in bed an hour ago, there's no way I'm going to be any sort of useful at work tomorrow with less than six hours of sleep and a cold. This is all you're getting. >_>
For what it's worth, I've mostly written PX and Cap off as likely town because their play all game has come across as overenthusiastic newb town. Cap in particular I feel, if nothing else, would have had SOMEONE trying to reel him in by now if he had scumbuddies.
Colt, on the other hand, I could easily see being scum, which I'm kinda sad to admit because his first real opinion all bloody game was in Post 551 and it was that he thinks I'm town. :C In addition to the low post volume and notably lacking post content, there have been active efforts to dodge responsibility for posting opinions, such as in Post 353.
Wanted to write something on Conqueror but everyone who had their votes on him seemed to come up with words that would sound a lot better than mine.
His repeated mention of how he lurks until the end of the day because that's when there's lots of juicy information kinda falls flat on its face given the way he disappeared entirely at the end of Day 1 instead of stepping up his game like any reasonable person would expect of someone that spends as long talking about how they prefer the ends of days as he has. Most of the rest of his posting has been fact regurgitation, and not in the Schezo manner either where I could at least glean how Schezo felt about the facts he was regurgitating from the way he presented them. The Cap vote-unvote dance I don't really read either way, but it certainly doesn't help him. The recent PX vote has reasoning backing it, sure, but "PX's play even to me does not seem impressive at all" isn't substantiated very much and could be applied right back on Colt by about a factor of five.
So, uh, yeah. Order of suspicion outside of Edible's list (and Edible himself) would be something like Dormio > Colt > Zakeri, with PX, Cap, Serela and whoever else I'm forgetting not really in the discussion since I don't particularly think them likely to be scum.
-
Before you go Kilga, I do have a question. Why haven't you suggested I kill Edible to verify his powers and list?
-
Shadoweh, Full Claim. NOW. Hiding your information from town will do nothing but hinder town. Really, the only thing you would be scared of would be if scum day!vig'd you right now before you got to shoot anyone. Also, I can summarize your activity today as doing nothing but causing a mass confusion and leading it.
Schezo said exactly what i think about this pointless "traitor" talk. It makes more sense if it were an alignment, since the mafiascum link you provided explicitly stated that traitor is A ROLE, NOT AN ALIGNMENT.
Here, let me quote it in red.
"The Traitor is a role with a pro-Mafia alignment that is not actually in the Mafia family. The Traitor knows who is in the Mafia, but the Mafia do not know who the Traitor is. The Traitor uses through his or her vote to keep the Mafia from getting lynched and wins with the Mafia."
If you don't die right after you kill someone, I will kill you.
h. capt: Stop being an echo. What happened to your play in late D1? Seriously. I don't want you alive when we get close to Lylo stage.
Another thing, an early mass claim I would not advise. You're essentially going to give scum all of the information they want, while town doesn't gain any significant advantages.
Edible's claim, I'll believe. Mostly because I believe Shadoweh is scum.
Also, that radio thing is useless at this point. What can the radio possibly do to help town?
Schezo, thank you for telling people to stop being led. You now gain town points.
DotS now, mafia tomorrow.
Yeah yeah, 2 ninjas. I got it
-
How many freaking vigs do we have in this game?!
-
Not enough I say!
-
Shadoweh: I had debated it and ultimately decided that doing it now would be rather premature. It's a spinoff of my natural aversion to the idea of "hey let's lynch X and if they flip town we'll lynch Y". I will say, though, that if both you and Schezo flip town, though, I'll actually probably be shouting for his head ahead of huh what's of Bard's. If I'm still alive at that point.
And while I'm on the subject of Bard, not to add further confusion to the vig clusterfuck, and for all that it means now, but when Bard initially posted the line about how he was sure the UK situation would eventually resolve itself, I did stop for a moment and go "...is he really telegraphing a vig role?" Bard does has a history of role breadcrumbs (too bad for him Moriya eye can see breadcrumbs at glance!) - if people really think he's scum then they're suggesting he was calling his shot in the middle of Day 1 without knowing how the trains would shake down and who would look really good or really bad a result, which would be a super ballsy move on top of his Hourai wagon push.
Ninja'd with yet another vig kill? Good Lord.
-
PX: If you have the power to kill me after I shoot go ahead and shoot me PX. I think I would like that very much. I'm not sure what part of DEAL WITH IT you don't understand. We are having wording semantics over "a role with a pro-mafia alignment that is not actually in the mafia family and can't talk to other mafia." Either you can't read or you're scum trying to protect Schezo. Someone else can figure that one out.
-
Vig kill role, whatever. I NEED DRUGS AND VAPORUB AND SLEEP.
-
I honestly think Serp made this game to see how quickly 16 players with kill powers can kill each other.
-
I honestly think Serp made this game to see how quickly 16 players with kill powers can kill each other.
I'm starting to wonder if there are any zombies or if there's just a bunch of really, really twitchy vigs.
-
I claim a super vig and musicboxman. I have the power to kill everybody in the game at once, but that activates my musicboxman power automatically, which blocks any power that can kill 6 or more people at the same time. Both have infinite uses, and can activate at any time. In fact. I've used it 34 times already. （ ?∀｀）
-
I claim a super vig and musicboxman. I have the power to kill everybody in the game at once, but that activates my musicboxman power automatically, which blocks any power that can kill 6 or more people at the same time. Both have infinite uses, and can activate at any time. In fact. I've used it 34 times already. （ ?∀｀）
This is the best claim ever.
Seriously though, are you actually another vig?
-
No
-
:getdown:
-
I claim a super vig and musicboxman. I have the power to kill everybody in the game at once, but that activates my musicboxman power automatically, which blocks any power that can kill 6 or more people at the same time. Both have infinite uses, and can activate at any time. In fact. I've used it 34 times already. （ ?∀｀）
I claim super special awesome vote of death powers. I can vote for players I want to lynch, and if the majority of players vote with me, the player I voted for is lynched. :V
-
PX: I think you've cured some of my insomnia. While I try to sleep that off I will ask the same thing of you that I have of everyone. Let's play a hypothical game where you've already seen me flip Town. Who on Edible's list do you think is the scum and why?
-
It might hurt me. My role is not just a one-shot dayvig. My role is going to get me killed
I don't know why you all think I've claimed my vigilante shot will immediately kill me when I use it.
... :/ Hrm.
-
If you read carefully you'll realize those two points don't actually contradict each other.
-
They don't, but I'm still thinking there's something I'm missing.
You've made it pretty clear you don't plan on fullclaiming. If you're so sure that you'll be dead soon, why not?
-
Also, that radio thing is useless at this point. What can the radio possibly do to help town?
Things :V
If Serela and I both survive the day he should pass a set to me.
-
EBWOM: Especially if you quote the entire sentence.
It might hurt me. My role is not just a one-shot dayvig. My role is going to get me killed and it's too good not to use that part of it so I have to work fast.
The answer to your question is not 'Because I'm scum' so think about it and answer it for yourself.
huh what: I hate to say it but if you both survive the day one of you is probably a zombie.
-
Er, night, even. Yes, I can read, edited out all mistakes are edited out!
-
What. Then how will the role kill you if it's not a suicide?
And I missed this.
My question to you is if you have my radio and you can see what the name is, why did you flip out on me earlier for calling Serela for getting the name wrong?
How the bleep would I know what your radio's name was yesterday before I even got the radio?
-
Simple, if you're town then Edible is scum
-
Schezo: Not that earlier, this earlier. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584985.html#msg584985)
PX: Can you explain that logic in more detail please?
-
@ Shadoweh: I'd like to maintain the request to him anyway.
-
That still stands, not because he knew the name of the radio but because you were overly nitpicky about an answer I would have passed because he already told you how to use it and to an extent what it was called.
-
Considering I thought I'd already sent a message with the words 'Set B' in it I thought Hourai was as capable of answering the question as he was. Yesterday there was also the possibility my radio partner was the one giving him information.
-
...Then how do you expect to take it up with me that I know what went on during your radio conversations?
-
Hint: I don't
-
..Because I said yesterday that this is what happened when I was pressing NeoSerela?
-
...That what is what happened? Define: this because I think I'm getting confused on what you are telling me.
-
I said yesterday that I had said Set B over the radio (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583984.html#msg583984) and NeoSerela confirmed he got that message later (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.450.html).
-
The second links a dud, but that's what I thought you said. I don't know what you said over your radios so I can't say anything on that. Why you're asking me to verify your thoughts and private actions is just beyond me.
-
I'm too lazy to count. Shadoweh, how long until you shoot somebody? (While I'm at it, who do you intend to shoot?)
-
The post from NeoSerela is lower on that page but yeah.
Okay, let's try this again. I said yesterday that I didn't believe Serela gave me the radio because the name he gave me was incorrect. Today, when you had the radio, you never bothered to bring up that you had it or that the name isn't Set B or Radio B until I specifically asked you to, and instead went on a rant against me for being nitpicky about something that since you are holding the radio right now you should have known was wrong. I wanted you to verify that you'd gotten the radio with NeoSerela because I was worried huh what stole it.
Less then 8 Hours until Someone Eats Buckshot
Kilgamayan
Bardiche
-
Why would I have stolen the radio? :s
I can't do anything like that.
Also, why are you not willing to shoot Schezo again? I must have missed something.
-
Umm but I was under the impression that only the receivers got the name of the radios or Serela could be lying about not knowing. But the nitpicky thing was still a valid point then because if he didn't know the name of the radio what were you expecting him to do? It has nothing to do with what I know now, it was what I was thinking day1 and I intended to bring it up.
And if you had said you were worried about huh what stealing the radio earlier, I might not have responded as harshly on the follow up but that seems a bit out of place that it took you that long to bring up why you wanted me to come out with the radio.
-
Oh, you probably want the actual reasoning behind that.
capt. h : Can actually read mafiascum wiki.
Colt : If we weren't verifying the list I might still shoot him.
Dormio : Well he's going to help me shoot through bulletproof so I can't shoot him.
huh what : Obvtown enough after Day 1.
Edible4u : His claim will prove itself or not really quickly.
NeoSerela : Probably not claiming scum by insisting I'm the scum with the receiver.
PX : Either the ballsyest scum ever or worst town.
Schezo : Good news for Schezo, I agree with Edible's order of actions. It depends on the vig flip.
Shadoweh : Suicide isn't cool no matter how hard talking to PX and Schezo is.
Zakeri : Already kidnapped by zombies.
I wasn't going to say out loud to huh what that I thought he might know where the radio is because he might have it silly. It's obvious NOW that that's not what happened.
-
Actually, I'll just stop being vague since there's not much reason to hide this and it could possibly clear up some shenanigans.
I tracked the owner of Set B on night 1. They targeted Schezo and nobody else.
It was a one-shot action, so I don't feel particularly bad about revealing it.
-
I thought that was obvious by now. I can also say that UncertainKitten said she wasn't giving up her radio because she had "Something more important to do that night. :dwi:" Because she thought Perv Serela was scum she didn't say what action she took.
-
Well yes, it was obvious. But that's why there was no point in being vague about it anymore (aside from the part where it was one-shot). I'd rather at least be clear about my actions so town knows what I'm up to.
-
One last try for that sleep thing so I can shoot in the morning. At this point I'd like for people to say who they prefer to get shot and/or if someone else deserves it more. Also if Dormio can tell me if he'll be here in about 7 hours. I'll be waiting for him before shooting.
-
7 hours from now will make it 1am.
And I'm running off 2 hours of sleep.
:/
I can be around if you insist on that time though.
Anyway, once I'm finished with TSA, I'll make a post.
-
Sleep deprived nonsense post is a go.
Firstly, the whole traitor business gives me a headache.
Either way, he's anti-town and dead.
PX has been shaping up a bit since D2 started.
Is it enough to make up for his D1?
Not yet so far, keeping my vote there.
capt. h & PX: Gone fishin', have we?
Colt & Zakeri: Do you exist? Is there life within those empty husks?
I've been staring at this for almost an hour and everything is blurry.
I'll try to make a better post once I actually get some sleep.
CHOO CHOO I'M A MOTHERFUCKING BULLET TRAIN, EDIBLE, DEAL WITH IT.
-
One last try for that sleep thing so I can shoot in the morning. At this point I'd like for people to say who they prefer to get shot and/or if someone else deserves it more.
I'd say Schezo deserves it more, as would a few other people. >_>
-
Kilga and Bardiche both consider "traitor" to be a role and not flavor, rereading their posts.
In Bardiche's case, the "traitor as role" position makes him look worse than if he said nothing at all - the "traitor as flavor" position would imply he knew he was bussing Hourai as scum, or he was town, which would have made him look better. In addition, by claiming the night vig on UK, he's either very, very gutsy scum or town.
Kilga on the other hand looks better with the "traitor as role" position he takes. It keeps him from looking as scummy as the "traitor as flavor" view, which would imply he voted for NeoSerela because he knew Hourai was town.
Bard is taking a lot of big risks if he's scum. He's making himself look worse than he has to. Kilga's playing it a lot safer, taking veiws that will help his continued survival.
-
Anyway, for actual opinions on that tiny list (why do I get the feeling that it was always going to be me and that the list was just for show?), if Bard is seriously also a vig then I vote you shoot me, because I'm pretty much dead set on Schezo/huh what being the scum team from Edible's list (again, assuming Edible is not lying scum himself).
Obviously I'd prefer Schezo (or huh what but that isn't happening) get shot instead of me but, well, I'd prefer I get shot over Bard.
-
I would also like to know why Bard isn't even remotely suspicious that there's another claimed killing role running around when a townie has already flipped as a one-shot vig.
Bastard mod. I've played a game with four doctors, a cop who killed the guy he was investigating and a cop who always got guilty results and KNEW he was paranoid. Mod imbalance of games is nothing new to me.
I've no interest in full-claiming my role because it's not just "hey you get to kill dudes at night!", there are conditions and exceptions and clauses involved here that, honestly, no, you guys don't need to know yet. If scum NKs me then so be it, at least you'll know what happened with UK! Since I wasn't sure people pick up on breadcrumbs here. :V
Moving on though, I checked Schezo and Kilgamayan after my delicious nap oh glorious bed, so here's what I think. There's no cases on people outside Edible's list because honestly, once we flip the two scum we can use connections to get the last one.
Kilgamayan has a lot of buddy buddy with me which I like about him because eh's a pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything. I really cannot find anything in his posts either that make me want to have him shot, although the end of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585149.html#msg585149) is unclear to me with respect to "bard's taken obvious stances". Is this a good thing or bad thing? It's preceded by a good thing so it's not sure for me, and I would like to ask how the stances I take are "obvious". I don't feel people've given much weight to my arguments thus far. :V
I suppose the weirdest he's done this game is stating Schezo's two meaningful posts were solid (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584931.html#msg584931), to switching that Schezo's lynch best overlaps with opinions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585154.html#msg585154), when I haven't seen much negativity. Am I missing something here?
On Schezo, I am less positive, if only because the first post I read (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581829.html#msg581829) has what is scaringly much like a throw-away comment on PX. He describes what PX does, but adeptly leaves out any sort of opinion on this behaviour. What I dislike most is the wall of suspicion he posts in here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583598.html#msg583598), while at the end concluding he prefers NeoSerela for information. Information. Let that sink in for a moment. Information.
The biggest strike he flaunts about Neo is that she is "tied to a lot of people" and last I checked that is not an entirely scummy trait.
After that, he doesn't mention Serela again until he reveals the radio, which definitely makes me wonder where your entire idea that Serela should die went. I mean, if she was your top choice alongside Hourai for D1, I'd expect at least a little mention, no?
capt h why are you pushing a wifom in here.
-
My vote is still on huh what who I feel hasn't redeemed himself, but if I can't get a Huh what lynch then yes, I'd take Schezo and then see from there who is scummiest. I don't feel Kilga is that scummy, his posts give me warm fuzzy feelings and I cannot say I find them very scumsourced.
-
Bardiche, I have every intention of shooting you in two hours. You might want to roleclaim.
-
You have still not cleared up why you consider me your prime target, which I believe is very valid information to share. If a roleclaim were all it took to get you off me, then I am curious why you take no credit in opinions re: possible scum.
-
I'm probably going to shoot you no matter what you claim unless you have a Conqueror-esque suicide power. Consider this me giving you a chance to speak now or forever hold your peace.
-
:|
I really cannot condone this incredibly unilateral course of action. If you're going to talk about listening to others, you should at least actually do so.
-
If that's the case, I won't need to bother with this game anymore, do I? I don't have a suicide power.
Well then, good luck everyone.
-
Also in regards to the "Bard takes obvious stances", I can understand the confusion. I meant it in the sense that "the stances Bard takes are obvious; I can tell what he means" as opposed to "Bard takes obvious stances instead of going out on limbs to hunt scum".
So yes, it is a good thing.
-
Kilga, your interactions with Bardiche are exactly why I want to shoot him. You are both pushing the same cases, and you are both very carefully avoiding saying anything bad about each other. If he flips scum you look guilty as sin.
-
At least I can rest easy I was killed only because someone else liked my posts. :V
And yeah, after the smoke clears, I'd look into Shadoweh. There is no townie intent coming off from this illogical course of action coupled with the requests for people to sway opinions when she doesn't heed them any way.
-
Bard: :/ I'm sorry. I don't want to make a habit out of taking you out Day 2, really. But killing you over Kilga will also verify the nightkill mystery. I went to look over your content and found.. well not much actually. The fact that you lurked through most of Day 2 makes it look like you were hoping to get lost in the noise everyone else was making.
-
I have class from 8:30 to 17:30, and leave home at 7 AM. I get home at 9 PM. I go to bed around 11 PM but sometimes later if I feel I can afford it. Lurking? More like not being available. :V
What nightkill mystery? I already admitted UK was my doing. I am positive there is no one else currently in the game who can have claimed killing UK.
-
Even whilst on the verge of passing out, I can tell that I really don't like how Shadoweh is going about this.
So, you know what? I'm confiscating your gun for now.
-
Oh, and
##Vote Shadoweh
I'll post again soon on why, though it's pretty obvious.
-
And I claim that I have every reason to believe UncertainKitten was the nightkill and that she could have used her nightkill ability on Affinity. This would be easier if she'd actually told me what she was doing and it's frustrating having to guess. She does seem like the kind of player that would vig first and ask questions never. On the plus side if I'm wrong I'll be joining you soon and you will have every right to ream me out then.
Dormio: You're what now?
-
Derp, got the syntax wrong.
I'm totally about to collapse right now.
##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh
/!\Warning/!\ - CHOO CHOO!.
I'm holding onto your gun and whatever other shiny toys you might have for now.
-
Why would UK hit Affinity then? I'd rather think UK would shoot me if she had shot at all, due to how the two of us never really get along and I admit part of the reason I shot UK is the way she handwaved my push on her as a waste of time and effort. In the past any time I made a move on UK this resulted in her countering that I had to be scum for it, so I can't follow that line of thought myself.
Caedo are you claiming daytime roleblocker.
-
Bardiche: Yes, I am.
-
He is totally claiming daytime roleblocker and that his previous claim was a lie.
Because for Day 1 UK and I were Bastard Radio Masons and I might have ranted alot more on him over the radio then I did in the thread.
Well, might as well prove someone's role today.
##Kill Bardiche
-
I have no idea if Serp is going to be by anytime soon to resolve this so I'm going to go nap. Like I said earlier though, UK thought you were town even if your cases didn't make sense. So yeah, if you're Town and you shot her you should probably feel bad.
-
He is totally claiming daytime roleblocker and that his previous claim was a lie.
Uh, previous claim?
Anyway, the way Shadoweh has been acting D2 is all wrong wrong wrong.
She basically said "screw you guys, roleclaim now and maybe I won't shoot you."
And then proceeded to just poke people into divulging their roles etc. without doing anything else.
As she carried on in this manner, I couldn't take it anymore.
So yeah, I'm taking that gun from you.
Also, considering some of the abilities that I've seen in play so far (UK/Hourai/Conqueror/mine), I would actually not be all that surprised if you were a zombie with a vig shot.
At first I just went along with it because, well, scum with vig seems kinda wrong, but yeah.
Considering the other abilities I've already seen...
I'm going to sleep soon, everything is blurry.
Hopefully things will make more sense in the morning.
-
Are you really going to pretend this never happened (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=585020;topic=8718.510)?
Again, I never asked anyone to roleclaim until now when I was certain who I wanted to die. I demanded at gunpoint that people scumhunt someone that isn't me because I somehow became an L-2 wagon in less then 10 hours. (huh what having a problem with this also earned him points with me.)
-
EBWOM: I seriously can't link anything today Dormio's Post #512
-
I see.
Serela, confirm whether UK voiced any suspicion or intention to drop Affinity during the night phase.
-
I can tell you now she didn't say anything about who she was targetting. Earlier in the day she said Affinity was fairly solid, but this was in the second set of messages and way before flips. ..Also for some reason she thought I might be you. I have no idea how.
-
You might as well take me for my word regardless of if you suspect me or not. Serela will either come back and confirm what I'm saying or confirm that I'm lying and you can lynch him tomorrow. Either way you win! In fact since it's still verifiable I think I'll throw all her opinions out here. These are UK's opinions from the 24 to 48 hour marks. This isn't exact wording because I don't want to die if I can't kill myself!
Bard: His case is terrible and assumes things he can't possibly know. Post and run style is bugging her. Also that you can't always be sleeping. Later updated after flips to probably not scum, just confirmation biasey. It's entirely my assumption that if UK knew you were going to use your bad case to KILL her that she wouldn't be clearing you anymore.
Shadoweh: Something off about her.
HW: Town
Kilga: Town
Affinity: Fairly Town
Zak: OMGWTF
Serela: Serelaey. I assume this means Serela is being an escaped mental patient as usual. Later updated after flips to I'M ONTO YOU >=[
PX: ???
Conqueror: Go die zombie
capt.h: Disappeared when people stopped pressuring him.
K4U: Post moar! At least she didn't say it in thread!
Dormio: Nothing. Actually, she forgot he existed.
-
EBWOM: I guess she was right about not being able to count because she forgot Hanged Hourai, Schezo and Colt too.
-
Anyway, Shadoweh, if you give me a heads up on your target before you shoot I should be able to guarantee that your target will die. (ie. break down bulletproof if they have it and disable things like Hourai's redirects)
Totally claiming daytime role blocker. Hi5 Dormio
Now can we lynch this SIFOM?
Bardiche claimed the Nightkill on UK. Nobody counterclaimed, thus, he is almost guaranteed to be either a town vig or SK. Thus, he's not a danger to town as we can direct his kills, and if he doesn't, he gets lynched right away.
-
EBWOP: Dormio claiming daytime role blocker in that post you linked and I quoted
-
Of course no one counterclaimed. The only person who can is already dead.
-
I don't know what Dormio is, but I do know preventing a vig kill on one of our top suspects is the absolutely most anti-town thing I have seen this game, regardless of the reasons behind it. It's the reason why we never have a "No Lynch".
Dormio/Caedo just did a marvelous job making himself more suspicious than anyone on Edible's list if he actually did block you just now Shadoweh. Were you blocked?
-
capt.h: I honestly don't know yet. We'll know when Serp posts the next votecount and Bard is still alive or not.
-
Well,
##Unvote
##Vote Dormio
Overall contentless posts, barely says anything useful, and just claimed to use her abilities to handicap town. If he can block day powers more than once, he's going to be a huge liability to future town roles. And frankly, the ability to block day abilities sounds pretty anti-town to me (having only seen pro-town day abilities).
-
Shadoweh: Why do you think UK was the NK and that she killed Affinity instead of Affinity being the NK with Bard vigging UK when UK never told you anything about Affinity other than that she thought he looked "fairly town"? UK may be incredibly trigger-happy but she always uses her kills on people she actually thinks are scummy, and there are a handful of people on that list whose descriptions I would think would cause UK to vig in their direction more (Zakeri, Dormio, Cap). And yet you believed she killed Affinity so strongly that you were willing to take unilateral action and attempt to kill someone that most everyone else didn't think should be first on the chopping block?
-
Kilga: Because my comments about what I thought of Affinity were sent way after UK's assessment that he was fairly town. Considering Affinity was both in charge of the Conqueror wagon and he was trying to get Serela lynched over Hourai (and UK thought Hourai was a regular scum member) why do you think Affinity was so 'obviously town'? If he were still alive today I would have shot him.
Bardiche was always on the list of suspects. I wanted to kill him to either prove your huh what/Schezo idea and clear you or show that you were likely the scum pair. There's also no way to figure out the night actions while he's still alive.
-
You've still not posted why I am suspicious. You demand I post what I have on other people, yet the entire day you've A) refused to fullclaim despite demanding others do so, B) demanded town give their input on who dies yet ignoring that anyway and C) pushed the idea that your target for the day must die without providing reasons beyond "it implicates Kilga".
Your entire case hinges on UK acting out of her usual pattern of behaviour (UK does always kill who she thinks is scum and would not throw away future investigations for a vig unless she was sure) and that UK would share your beliefs of who are scummy.
-
You've still not posted why I am suspicious. You demand I post what I have on other people, yet the entire day you've A) refused to fullclaim despite demanding others do so, B) demanded town give their input on who dies yet ignoring that anyway and C) pushed the idea that your target for the day must die without providing reasons beyond "it implicates Kilga".
Your entire case hinges on UK acting out of her usual pattern of behaviour (UK does always kill who she thinks is scum and would not throw away future investigations for a vig unless she was sure) and that UK would share your beliefs of who are scummy.
It should be really, really obvious why it's a bad idea for some of us to fullclaim, and I personally think Shadoweh has said enough about her role. I kind of wish she said less truth be told.
It's not like anyone here has fullclaimed, especially you, and you claimed to vig UK.
-
I will fullclaim if Serp confirms my kill didn't go through because it'll mean it's not going to get me killed.
I've never told anyone to fullclaim today but you. Because you were going to be dead. No matter how many people keep saying "Shadoweh told everyone to roleclaim today." it's not going to be true. You're right, I wanted more then anything to see who wanted who dead and who made cases on who. My thought patterns do not follow yours but I was watching what everyone said. Everyone agreed that Schezo Must Die and that you were somehow immune to scrutiny and apparently Kilga will die for you. That last part is the strangest thing I've ever seen a townie say.
-
How does "people think you're not scummy" correlate to "you must be scum"? How does Kilgamayan's behaviour determine that I am the scummiest player alive and should be killed? How does everyone going "Schezo is scummy" equate to "it's not worth killing Schezo over Bardiche"?
I read back on your posts and you did in fact not push everyone to roleclaim, and my apologies for that wrong assertion. I read it somewhere and assumed it must be true, but I was wrong.
capt h, why is Shadoweh "obviously town" to you other than "role"? I take your saying that Dormio blocked "town" as that you believe Shadoweh is town, so what reasons do you have to believe that other than that you've never seen scum day powers? (for the record, I've never seen someone who can cop five people at once!)
-
Stuff between speech marks does not imply quotations, it's my assertion that capt h believes Shadoweh is obvtown due to asserting Dormio is cockblocking town.
-
How does "people think you're not scummy" correlate to "you must be scum"? How does Kilgamayan's behaviour determine that I am the scummiest player alive and should be killed? How does everyone going "Schezo is scummy" equate to "it's not worth killing Schezo over Bardiche"?
I read back on your posts and you did in fact not push everyone to roleclaim, and my apologies for that wrong assertion. I read it somewhere and assumed it must be true, but I was wrong.
capt h, why is Shadoweh "obviously town" to you other than "role"? I take your saying that Dormio blocked "town" as that you believe Shadoweh is town, so what reasons do you have to believe that other than that you've never seen scum day powers? (for the record, I've never seen someone who can cop five people at once!)
If Sadoweh claims her fullclaim won't get her killed then I can tell you why I thought she was town.
I thought she was implying that she had vig powers once per day. Regardless of how scummy she acted, I would have been surprised to see her alive at LYLO, because scum would not let such a player live for very long. She would be just to dangerous.
At least, that's how I interpretted Shadoweh's cryptic remarks.
-
Bardiche:
Did you read it in the quicktopic The roleclaim thing is something Schezo and Dormio said. The fact that Dormio is blocking a vig at all, and therefore claiming to think you are 100% town is.. I don't know. Especially since you're on our list of People That Need To Be Lessened. I think you are scummy because you flew completely under the radar when you're more of a Lynch All Lurkers guy. I've never seen Kilga look like he's fumbling over paragraphs before. The truth is when I posted my narrowed to two list I'd already decided to kill you because you disappeared.
-
Incidentally, does anyone know how Dormio's power works? I didn't see her place a command in the thread. So I'd like to know if I'm talking to a dead player or not.
Bard, if you are dead, this may be your last chance to fullclaim. At this point I'm not sure I care. Both you and Dormio are the worst townies ever, possibly scum, and managed to jump all the way to the top of my lynch list. You for killing UK without any aparent reason and then being protected by Dormio, and Dormio for blocking a very important flip and in doing so playing more anti-town than I even thought was physically possible. The only reason I'm not voting for you is because I need to see Dormio lynched before I can be sure town vig roles will be usable.
@ Shadoweh - I do think Kilga is playing more scummy, but if Bard revealed the third scum for us, I am grateful to you for your decision.
-
Kilga: Because my comments about what I thought of Affinity were sent way after UK's assessment that he was fairly town. Considering Affinity was both in charge of the Conqueror wagon and he was trying to get Serela lynched over Hourai (and UK thought Hourai was a regular scum member) why do you think Affinity was so 'obviously town'? If he were still alive today I would have shot him.
And what does your opinion of Affinity have to do with why UK shot Affinity? Let me make this perfectly clear, just so there's no confusion.
- You assert that UK shot Affinity and was the night kill herself, targeted by Bard.
- You assert that UK's last known opinion of Affinity is that he is "fairly town". (That you withheld this information until just recently does not make me particularly happy, by the way.)
- You therefore assert that UK shot someone she thought was "fairly town". Notice that your opinion of Affinity does not factor into this assertion at all.
Why do you make this assertion?
-
To hell with it. You're on the bucket list, we have one flipped vig and two more claimed, there's all sorts of role craziness this game, it's entirely possible scum some have sort of vig on their side. To see such anti-town unilateral action from a claimed vig whose justification for their suspicions is that another vig shot someone that other vig thought was "fairly town", compounded by my pre-claim case, is enough for me.
##Unvote: Schezo
##Vote: Shadoweh
-
@capt h:
I had plenty of reason to do so (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582046.html#msg582046). UK keeping her vote on me the entire game until page six when she jumps to Conqueror, refuses to answer questions to elucidate her stand points and spends most of D1 just asking questions and being friendly rather than scumhunt isn't a good enough reason to kill her?
How is Dormio's play anti-town? Shadoweh hasn't been the very epitome of pro-town herself, so suggesting there is a Scum DayVig isn't that absurd if you look at town having two cops, of which Edible's advertised role is one of the most powerful roles I've ever seen in a Mafia game.
I'd declare you more anti-town. You've yet to show any sign of scumhunting; presenting cases based on someone's actions in another game (for all that I agree Schezo is scummy), spending a good part of D1 just waiting on people to post (and someone calling it overexcitement here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582013.html#msg582013)... excitement at what?), and a weird mention that the Anti-Conq case was strong but you took no effort to point out why it was flawed, since you thought Conqueror was town. An amusing call, which is a weird call nonetheless.
Start of Day2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584867.html#msg584867) is a mention that "these people are worth looking into", but beyond that recommendation, no such action yourself. The rest of the day is gaming the setup and speculating the mechanics of the game, which is very interesting but really not relevant to scumhunting. Posts as these (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585925.html#msg585925) do nothing to highlight your own stance on who is scum and who is not, serving only to provide the illusion of content while actually providing none but "Here's some stuff that's True (TM), derive opinions!"
Before you make strong statements that people are idiots and "worst townies ever", perhaps you could enlighten how never actually putting effort to scumhunt is pro-town, and why you are chainsaw defending Shadoweh. Or to be more direct: Why do you not hunt scum, and why do you defend Shadoweh in a chainsaw maneuver?
-
(It is also worth noting that my opinion of Affinity also has nothing to do with the assertion I outlined.)
-
To hell with it. You're on the bucket list, we have one flipped vig and two more claimed, there's all sorts of role craziness this game, it's entirely possible scum some have sort of vig on their side. To see such anti-town unilateral action from a claimed vig whose justification for their suspicions is that another vig shot someone that other vig thought was "fairly town", compounded by my pre-claim case, is enough for me.
##Unvote: Schezo
##Vote: Shadoweh
Congrats, you just put Shadoweh at L-2.
##Unvote
##Vote: Kilgamayan
-
I'm not even sure what unilateral means. I assume it means tried to shoot Bardiche. Can you explain to me why you would rather die yourself then see Bardiche eat a bullet? Also can you stop voting for me until Serpentarius confirms if something or nothing happens? You will probably get a better explanation then.
-
@capt h:
I had plenty of reason to do so (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582046.html#msg582046). UK keeping her vote on me the entire game until page six when she jumps to Conqueror, refuses to answer questions to elucidate her stand points and spends most of D1 just asking questions and being friendly rather than scumhunt isn't a good enough reason to kill her?
How is Dormio's play anti-town? Shadoweh hasn't been the very epitome of pro-town herself, so suggesting there is a Scum DayVig isn't that absurd if you look at town having two cops, of which Edible's advertised role is one of the most powerful roles I've ever seen in a Mafia game.
I'd declare you more anti-town. You've yet to show any sign of scumhunting; presenting cases based on someone's actions in another game (for all that I agree Schezo is scummy), spending a good part of D1 just waiting on people to post (and someone calling it overexcitement here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582013.html#msg582013)... excitement at what?), and a weird mention that the Anti-Conq case was strong but you took no effort to point out why it was flawed, since you thought Conqueror was town. An amusing call, which is a weird call nonetheless.
Start of Day2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584867.html#msg584867) is a mention that "these people are worth looking into", but beyond that recommendation, no such action yourself. The rest of the day is gaming the setup and speculating the mechanics of the game, which is very interesting but really not relevant to scumhunting. Posts as these (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585925.html#msg585925) do nothing to highlight your own stance on who is scum and who is not, serving only to provide the illusion of content while actually providing none but "Here's some stuff that's True (TM), derive opinions!"
Before you make strong statements that people are idiots and "worst townies ever", perhaps you could enlighten how never actually putting effort to scumhunt is pro-town, and why you are chainsaw defending Shadoweh. Or to be more direct: Why do you not hunt scum, and why do you defend Shadoweh in a chainsaw maneuver?
Alright. You've spoken enough. And I'm insulted that you said that I make no effort to hunt scum. I checked PX's entire post history to verify his past references to himself in the third person, and I disproved Hourai's claim that Huh What doesn't use the term scum in reference to Conq. by checking all of Huh What's posts this game. I even cited the last time PX refered to himself in the third person, because I thought his behavior was strange. I might not be hunting scum well, but I'm very acitve about it.
We have a list of five players, two of which are scum. Dormio prevented us from getting our second kill today and prevented Shadoweh's death (which we could rectify tomorrow if necessary), and both names were on the list. Basically, Dormio is making us tajke two extra days to hunt scum. There is no way in which Dormio's block is pro-town, and even as Shadoweh's victim you should be able to appreciate just how anti-town making us waste extra days is.
-
Totally claiming daytime role blocker. Hi5 Dormio
Now can we lynch this SIFOM?
Bardiche claimed the Nightkill on UK. Nobody counterclaimed, thus, he is almost guaranteed to be either a town vig or SK. Thus, he's not a danger to town as we can direct his kills, and if he doesn't, he gets lynched right away.
Hey, are you really a daytime roleblocker?
I ask because I think roleblocking Dormio would be a good idea if you can.
-
No, he's saying Dormio claimed daytime role blocker earlier. Which does make sense as a way to block bulletproof. Also if you read what he said he's obviously not going to help me. He thinks I'm a scum with killing power. No one's going to be able to explain how Dormio's power works except Dormio. Despite the possibility that those two are a scum pair you should calm down and wait for the other players to see what happened before posting more. I fully expect to get hammered and my entire effort today after my flip written off as the worst Town Vigilante in history but there isn't much I can do about that after being kicked in the gut by Dormio.
-
And yet you drop the (worthwhile) accusation that someone might've written PX's arguments for him in favour of "Dormio blocked Shadoweh who he thinks is scum!" and "Kilgamayan voted Shadoweh to L-2!!", the latter of which isn't very telling of scummy behaviour to me. Perhaps you can elucidate that? The former strikes me as a chainsaw defence; discrediting Dormio's case on Shadoweh by claiming Dormio is scum, rather than considering the line of thought that lead to Dormio's actions and declaring the flaws in their belief to support Shadoweh = scum.
You've cited two instances as genuine scumhunting. One of which is simply checking if Hourai's accusation was correct, and one was PX's self-reference. Your entire case on Hourai doesn't exist (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583327.html#msg583327), as the "reasons stated above" declare you voted him to pressure a content post out of him. Your last post in the day is declaring confusion whether you want to lynch Serela or Hourai - based solely on Serela's role information being declared wrong by a party you had been voting up until you wanted to pressure Hourai instead.
There are no given reasons to jump off of Shadoweh to begin with and by now, you seem completely convinced Shadoweh is town. Why?
Again I iterate that there is no valuable scumhunting you have done, as your only real mark, that Hourai made a false claim, was not pursued by yourself. You do not attack PX on his arguments but on one point, namely that he might've had someone write his arguments for him - if you were convinced he was scum, and wanted to put honest-to-god scumhunting in, why did you not pursue other arguments to underline why PX is scummy? Why do you abandon that case in lieu of Dormio?
Why is there no effort to further convince the town that PX is scum based on your belief that he has someone write his arguments for him and is, thusly, scum?
It is this lazy scumhunting combined with doing nothing but reporting things and gaming the setup rather than hunting scum that I get the idea you are not siding with town.
I would put my vote down on you if not for Edible's bucket list... speaking of which, where -is- Edible? Either way, resolving the two (or more, if "at least" is any indication) scum in the bucket takes priority for now.
I'm ready to swap to Shadoweh and put him at L-1, for I cannot imagine town really acting as Shadoweh did, and it is plainly obvious no one wants to lynch Huh What despite how much he deserves it as far as I am concerned. Sigh, I really want to get my cake and eat it someday.
-
Are you hoping Colt will drop by and hit the lurker hammer? Seriously, we have over a day left today for people to discuss how to murder me. Do not put me to L-1. That would be incredibly negligent of you.
-
If I had no such consideration I would've put you to L-1 already.
-
Unilateral means making a decision without agreement from a group. In Mafia it's basically where on person decides their opinion is more important than the group's opinion and elects to take a course of action different from what the town thinks is the best course of action. It is bad because, without the stigma, scum could rather easily take an anti-town action and then just go "whoops, my mistake" when it backfired.
I am not afraid of L-2 and I don't know why Cap is - if we get a scum rush to quicklynch her that would be pretty neat because it would give away some more scummies.
-
VOTECOUNT - Mod Needs Sleep Too Edition
Shadoweh (5): NeoSerela, PX, Schezo, Dormio, Kilgamayan, huh what (L-2)
Kilgamayan (1): capt. h
Schezo (1): huh what, Kilgamayan
PX (1): Colt, Dormio, capt. h
huh what (1): Bardiche
Dormio (0): capt. h
Bardiche (0): capt. h
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: Edible, Shadoweh, Zakeri
Not Voting: Edible, Shadoweh, Zakeri
With 12 votes in play, 7 are required to lynch. Under 31 hours remain in the day.
-
Kilga, I don't think his argument can be the scum quicklynch: if you are scum and scum would quicklynch, that'd mean two scum had to pile on... which exposes the one outside the bucket list. I cannot imagine Capt H would make the argument that scum'd throw the game just to lynch Shadoweh.
-
Kilga, I don't think his argument can be the scum quicklynch: if you are scum and scum would quicklynch, that'd mean two scum had to pile on... which exposes the one outside the bucket list. I cannot imagine Capt H would make the argument that scum'd throw the game just to lynch Shadoweh.
Good point. I guess there isn't any danger to L-2.
##Unvote
-
@Bard: I'm here, just in and out. Trying to keep up with the game but busy otherwise.
I've shifted my views from Shoot Kilga and Lynch Schezo to I Don't Care What Order We Do It In But Let's Kill Schezo And Lynch Shadoweh. As stated previously, I think either Shadoweh or Bard is third party/scum and therefore set off my ability. Bardiche's crumb and subsequent full admission of UK's death when such information was not actively being searched for is interesting and I'm willing to put him further back on the lynch order of the List of Five, but if Shadoweh refuses to play along as she's been doing all damn day then there's very little we can do (outside of Dormio's apparent day-block). Said anti-town behavior from Shadoweh also makes me less willing to tolerate her over Bard for the time being.
I realize at this point I haven't actually voted anyone. Let's change that.
@Dormio: I do think we should let Shadoweh off someone, preferably Schezo or herself, before we lynch her. Better that two names get scratched off my list than one.
##vote Schezo
-
And then capt h proves me wrong. Your entire case was "Kilga voted Shadoweh to L-2!" and yet you claim you made every effort to hunt scum? :( You shouldn't feel insulted because this is exactly what I am talking about.
Zakeri hasn't posted in 80 hours, give or take, and it bothers me that if he makes a post soon he can saunter into D3 with almost NOTHING on the table except for his weird vote for Conqueror.
-
Except right now you two effectively ARE the people rushing to lynch me and the one vote after would be some random passerby who loses it for town tomorrow.
Bardiche: Your reason for killing UK is worse then mine for killing you and doesn't explain why you didn't kill huh what. You effectively killed her because she called you out on making a post meant to end the RVS with the intention of not being there and waking up to see the mess you caused. Surprise, someone voted you for it. Then she went on to find a real case. You are openly claiming to have killed her over a stupid ED1 case based around the border between RVS and real voting. Also, she voted for Hanged Hourai at the end and verified NeoSerela's role. No one else is apparently going to call you on this. Kilga sure isn't. He will Die For This Ship.
Well, Bard doesn't appear to be dead. Thanks Dormio.
I am the Town Heroic Vigilante. My ability is to have no qualms about taking justice into my own hands and shooting whoever I think is a zombie. I am not a one-shot vig. Starting Day 2 I have a vig shot every day. If I shoot a Townie, I am not likely to die. If I shoot a zombie, because they go down harder, I am not likely to survive the day. So there you go. Basically every time I take a shot I play Russian Roulette with myself and someone else. My role is incredibly vague about what will and will not kill me so after I took my shot I didn't care if I was the lynch. There was a chance I was dead anyways. I assume though that if I shot a townie today I would live until tomorrow. This is why I preferred the idea of lynching the Obvious Zombie Schezo instead of shooting him. If I lived to tomorrow I would have offered my second shot as proof that I'm not scum and see where town would take it from there. Except now I can't do that. I can't prove I have more then one shot because by then we'll be in LYLO with no way to tell who's really a zombie. I can't prove I'm not a serial killer either by commiting suicide. So I am effectively screwed and have no excuse to offer because I expected to use my power and die today.
Kilga: Oh, then that is pretty much what I did. My shot, my responsibility. However I did keep my target to what town had decided was the best group of people to kill. Other people wanted to keep you alive because you're a valuable player. I choose a course that had a possibility of clearing you because of that instead of honoring your own suicidal urges. When trying to explain this role to one of my friends I equated it to giving a shotgun to a dying person.
-
I'm not even sure what unilateral means. I assume it means tried to shoot Bardiche. Can you explain to me why you would rather die yourself then see Bardiche eat a bullet?
Two major reasons.
- Bard's role, in the limited amount of description that it has received, is more useful than mine.
- It's no secret I've been fucking up badly for most of the game. I work a full-time job and a part-time job and the Wednesday-Thursday interval also comes with evening rehearsal commitments to church group. On top of all that, I came down with a sore throat on Tuesday and have had a nasty cold ever since, meaning late evenings have recently been devoted to bed ahead of this game. It has been ostensibly impossible to sit down and concentrate on this game because the majority of the time I've been able to devote to it has been picking out random minutes during the work day where I can peek in and get a quick, cold-addled assessment of what has gone on since the last time I looked. I know I am town, but I strongly feel Bard is town also, and it is not hard to assess that he could very well be more useful to town in the long run than me. I win with the town; I would be remiss to take actions that I feel are not in the town's overall best interest.
-
I put forth that Bard is in fact not as town as you think he is and is more likely to be a Serial Killer or Scum then Town. He killed someone that was playing pretty town instead of the various lurkers or the person he had a case on that was going nowhere, because she voted him for his Anti-RVS Shenanigans. I realize you can't see my alignment so you can't see it from my perspective. My kills go off in front of everyone. His kill was in the night phase. If you lynch him instead of me Dormio can keep
cockblocking dayblocking me, he can't do that with Bard. I would also point to how Bard felt no need to roleclaim when he was literally going to be shot, and then suddenly Dormio is dayblocking me. You of all people should know that unless you have a cop on someone the only person you can be sure isn't scum is YOU.
-
Okay, have to go to work, try not to hammer me while I'm out!
-
My case on UK was going nowhere, and I killed her because she refused to respond to my inquiries. Even disregarding the fact she voted me for that absurd point and demanded clarification on a point she never acknowledged, I disliked her ignoring that case and wanted her gone for that. I admit I may have been biased due to UK and my history together, but. Trying to contort reality does not speak in your favour.
-
My case on UK was going nowhere, and I killed her because she refused to respond to my inquiries. Even disregarding the fact she voted me for that absurd point and demanded clarification on a point she never acknowledged, I disliked her ignoring that case and wanted her gone for that. I admit I may have been biased due to UK and my history together, but. Trying to contort reality does not speak in your favour.
See, I'm confused, you made one post about UK total. I'll post your remarks on UK:
UK finds it interesting people didn't mention Zakeri. Does interesting equal scummy?
Huh What, why did you need to have a major epiphany before you concluded that your vote on me was, in fact, absolute crud?
There's just so many people I want to vote for, but I still have only one vote (and no six hammer votes to crumble either :() so I'm going to go with the one who I find most egregious. ##UNVOTE
##VOTE: UncertainKitten
You mention that you worry how easily the wagon on Conq was made. I take this as a worry that there may be scum intent founded in voting him. Yet you seem to agree he is the scummiest person around.
Why make this mention at all? Shouldn't it be a good thing lots of people pile on the person who looks scummiest to you?
This mystery, along with the dogged idea that voting me until page 6 was going to yield a groundbreaking revelation, as well as a plethora of friendly conversation that sadly has no real bearance on the here and now of the game raise you to my utmost scum state. It's this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581710.html#msg581710) that's funny, because you're saying there's enough to work with to make cases, and yet you have made no effort to do so yet other than prodding and prying. :(
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581686.html#msg581686) feels like a cheerlead. Conqueror and capt H are scummy, but I'm not going to pursue it, is how I read that.
Now, I'm rather curious why you didn't pursue UK more than you did if you really wanted her to answer your questions. You spend a lot more time on Huh What than UK, after all.
-
Because I tried (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582368.html#msg582368), and got nothing for it. No one else seemed it worthy to comment on it and short of incredulously going "OMG UK Y U DO DIS" I had few options. I took the easy way to deal with it.
Also:
"Dormio blocked Shadoweh who he thinks is scum!" and "Kilgamayan voted Shadoweh to L-2!!", the latter of which isn't very telling of scummy behaviour to me. Perhaps you can elucidate that?
There are no given reasons to jump off of Shadoweh to begin with and by now, you seem completely convinced Shadoweh is town. Why?
if you were convinced he was scum, and wanted to put honest-to-god scumhunting in, why did you not pursue other arguments to underline why PX is scummy?
Why do you abandon that case in lieu of Dormio?
(should of course be: "for Dormio")
Why is there no effort to further convince the town that PX is scum based on your belief that he has someone write his arguments for him and is, thusly, scum?
What is with people and ignoring my inquiries this game? :V
-
Because I tried (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582368.html#msg582368), and got nothing for it. No one else seemed it worthy to comment on it and short of incredulously going "OMG UK Y U DO DIS" I had few options. I took the easy way to deal with it.
Also: (should of course be: "for Dormio")
What is with people and ignoring my inquiries this game? :V
Honest answer or answer that'll make you feel good?
Anyway, lets answer your questions.
1. I thought Kilga voting Shadoweh to L-2 was scummy because Schezo doing it was scummy. Dormio blocking a vig kill on our list of people who are probabloy zombies is scummy because it's a free kill on a major scum suspect. Dormio really did put us back a day when he blocked Shadoweh, and that's a very scummy thing to do.
2. I'm convinced I can lynch shadoweh tomorrow if he is scum, not that he is town. I am also convinced his vig kill can help us either way, so I figure let him take the shot.
3. I stopped being convinced PX was scum when Conq. showed his list. I became pretty sure he wasn't scum when Dormio made that anti-town vig block.
4. I abandoned PX in favor of Dormio because anyone who gets in the way of checking Edible's list is anti-town.
5. Because that all assumes Dormio is not scum, and if nothing else Dormio is in town's way. If Dormio turns out to be town, then I'll attack PX again.
-
Musings on car ride home have given way to new thoughts of approach. It dawned on me that I may very well be in that bizarre little situation where the person I think is the scummiest and the person I think most likely to be scum are not actually the same person. I should be voting for the latter ahead of the former, so:
##Unvote: Shadoweh
##Vote: Schezo
I'm going to skip back over the day to see if I may have missed this piece of information while work-snipe-reading, but I will ask the question now regardless just in case it hasn't been said yet.
/!\ ATTN EDIBLE THIS IS IMPORTANT /!\
When you got the results from your test last night, what exactly did they say? Did they say at least two scum, at least two zombies, at least two traitors, or at least two non-towns?
-
When you got the results from your test last night, what exactly did they say? Did they say at least two scum, at least two zombies, at least two traitors, or at least two non-towns?
It specifically stated zombies. I check blood, so it makes sense. It wouldn't have picked up Hourai, I imagine.
I should also note that there were only two potential results yesterday - negative and positive. Negative meant I detected only one or zero scum/zombies, positive meant I detected two or more. I got positive.
-
Edible: thanks for the tip about how the test works.
##Vote Schezo
Now here's what I think about Shadoweh and Bard:
They've both claimed vig powers. There is a distinct possibility that zombies have vig powers. However, Bard and Shadoweh are both covered in Edible's blood test.
I think we should use their vig powers regardless of whether or not they are zombies. For one, zombies will target vigs that help town, regardless of how scummy the vigs look, so if one of them is a town vig they will probably get night killed anyway, saving us a lynch. And until we clear Edible's list, the vigs would be helping town whether or not they were zombies. Since they are both on Edible's list, we can simply kill them if we don't find enough zombies after checking the other people on the list. By doing this, we can get more town shots at zombies than if we did not make use of their powers.
I also agree with Edible: Dormio, if you can give Shadoweh her vig shot back so that she can shoot schezo? It would be highly beneficial for town.
I agree that Schezo is the most likely to be a zombie.
-
Huh. That's actually an interesting idea, that Hourai may have been the Godmother equivalent.
Okay so.
I still think Bard has behaved in a far more pro-town fashion throughout the game than Shadoweh has but she does raise an interesting point in that Bard has claimed to have killed someone that was on Hourai rather than someone that was on Serela or someone that was being useless. There is also an interesting wurgle in the fact that Dormio, who I have had a very poor opinion of for a while, has apparently gone back on one role claim to demonstrate another ability entirely, an ability that would not be at all outlandish in scum hands, and he saved Bard from Shadoweh with it.
This is enough to make me leery of touching either of them for the time being when Schezo has none of these shenanigans surrounding him, a feeling that is exacerbated by Edible stating that his info specifically stated zombies because it allows for pairing consideration amongst those on the list. Now:
- I know I'm town.
- A Bard/Shadoweh pair would be ludicrous at this juncture unless they are both amazing actors with (testicles/ovaries) the size of Jupiter.
- I feel a Bard/huh what pair to be unlikely to the point of throwing the possibility out because they were both on Hourai yesterday and I do not see multiple scum bussing their potential Godmother like that.
- A huh what/Shadoweh pair...is actually admittedly an interesting idea, given how things have changed between them since Day 1. However huh what did come out of a Day 1 where he had voted for Hourai by gunning for Shadoweh which really makes me wonder if he would be a scum buddy with his two major targets like that.
- This leaves, for me, Schezo/??? where the ??? doesn't really matter for the time being because Shadoweh getting blocked means we have one kill for the day. I've mulled over the player list and I've noticed that scum have an extremely small window of players that they could NK tonight without compromising their position in some capacity. This makes me all the more inclined to just go ahead and eliminate the one guy I'm 99% sure is scum simply by logical default and let the pseudo-zugzwang that the scum team is in give us more information with which to work to determine the second scum of the people on that list.
Obviously this all only works for me because of the very first bullet point, but it basically means that I'm going to sit on Schezo for the rest of the day and take my chances with new information tomorrow, because if I have a choice between making a call on Bard/Shadoweh with the info out now and making a call on Bard/Shadoweh with the info out now plus extra info from the NK as well as any other roles that pop up with something, I'm going to choose the latter 10 times out of 10.
Ninja'd by Cap providing more role speculation and proposing a plan I'm honestly having a hard time understanding. :C
-
Okay.
Slightly less sleep deprived, but I need to go to the hospital in a bit over an hour.
I've only skimmed through D2 so far.
So I'll make a proper post when I get back.
Anyway, I guess a vig shot is still a vig shot.
If you really want I can give Shadoweh back her gun and take away whatever Schezo or Bardiche or whoever the hell Shadoweh wants to shoot's abilities.
Warning - HONK HONK.
-
Okay.
Slightly less sleep deprived, but I need to go to the hospital in a bit over an hour.
I've only skimmed through D2 so far.
So I'll make a proper post when I get back.
Anyway, I guess a vig shot is still a vig shot.
If you really want I can give Shadoweh back her gun and take away whatever Schezo or Bardiche or whoever the hell Shadoweh wants to shoot's abilities.
Warning - HONK HONK.
Yes please! :)
-
Dormio, who I have had a very poor opinion of for a while, has apparently gone back on one role claim to demonstrate another ability entirely
Again, what previous claim?
-
If Dormio's role can actually give Shadoweh her gun back and is not simply a daytime roleblock then I suppose I would be up for having it returned to her on the condition that she agree to shoot Schezo today and absolutely no one else.
Cut by Dormio: It got pulled up earlier, let me grab it again.
-
Ah, I see now.
Anyway, Shadoweh, if you give me a heads up on your target before you shoot I should be able to guarantee that your target will die. (ie. break down bulletproof if they have it and disable things like Hourai's redirects)
This is claim of which I was thinking, and which I had previously parsed in my head as "Dormio has the power to make vig kills pierce" when the parenthetical statement would indeed line up with what he did to Shadoweh. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Not that it does anything to change the fact that you stopped Shadoweh from killing Bard (whatever the reasons). It just confirms that you didn't actually backtrack. :V
-
I would oppose returning the gun simply because I do not wish to die and because Shadoweh already demonstrated she will not permit town to direct the kill. The anti-town attitude of soloing the day while never providing any reasons on why anyone is scum displayed over the day also doesn't really make me eager to permit her to shoot me.
capt h, why is Schezo scummy for voting to L-2? I admit I have no real desire to read back to what particular instance you are referring.
How do Dormios actions clear PX? How does townDormio equate to scumPX, but scumDormio equate to townPX?
-
I would oppose returning the gun simply because I do not wish to die and because Shadoweh already demonstrated she will not permit town to direct the kill. The anti-town attitude of soloing the day while never providing any reasons on why anyone is scum displayed over the day also doesn't really make me eager to permit her to shoot me.
capt h, why is Schezo scummy for voting to L-2? I admit I have no real desire to read back to what particular instance you are referring.
How do Dormios actions clear PX? How does townDormio equate to scumPX, but scumDormio equate to townPX?
Honestly, it's because I'm new at this game. Shortly after Schezo did it, Huh What said:
Ninja'd by Schezo. Haven't read it yet, but did he really need to push Shadoweh to L-2 this early?
And then Edible and Shadoweh happened and we decided Schezo was scummy. Basically, I fell into a non-sequitor, and I apologize for that.
___________________________________
In responce to your second question, in the previous game one of the players mentioned that 4 scum was typical for a game with 16 players. Since Hourai was a traitor, and two of the scum are on Edible's list, unless Edible is lying it's likely that either PX or Dormio are scum, but not both. The alternative is Edible is lying (possible), or there are 4 zombies in addition to the traitor, which would surprise me. Or there is someone else entirely (like Zak, who should either get modkilled or post twice as much as the rest of us combined to make up for his non-existance).
-
RE: Blocking Shadoweh, I only went through with it because I can give her back her abilities whenever I want.
-
Kilga: I find a Kilga/Bardiche pairing to be likely, but I'm not going to try and convince you of it. I also find a huh what/Bardiche pairing to be possible if Schezo flips town. If you give me back my gun I will
shoot Dormio for doing this to me actually I'm not sure. We need a flip. My shot should set the day to 24 hours if we don't try to abuse the deadline so you all can think about it.
If Edible tested for zombies that lends more credence to my interpretation of the Traitor role. Because I have another shot tomorrow I can completely narrow down the list.
-
Shadoweh: You should have your gun back now, and Schezo's had his abilities taken away from him.
If you want to shoot someone else, tell me and I'll switch once I get back from the hospital.
-
Lovely. :wat:
Well, before the inevitable happens, I suppose I should pose the question of how Bard's death would possibly clear me like you claimed it would, since it would theoretically be nothing for myself as scum to endorse him because I would know him to be innocent the whole time.
-
RE: Blocking Shadoweh, I only went through with it because I can give her back her abilities whenever I want.
Oh. :blush:
Sorry, I didn't know how the block works.
-
(The previous question assumes a town flip for Bard, of course.)
-
Kilga: I find a Kilga/Bardiche pairing to be likely, but I'm not going to try and convince you of it. I also find a huh what/Bardiche pairing to be possible if Schezo flips town. If you give me back my gun I will shoot Dormio for doing this to me actually I'm not sure. We need a flip. My shot should set the day to 24 hours if we don't try to abuse the deadline so you all can think about it.
If Edible tested for zombies that lends more credence to my interpretation of the Traitor role. Because I have another shot tomorrow I can completely narrow down the list.
Why not a Kilga/Huh What pairing?
I mentioned on day 1 that it seemed like they were covering for eachother, and they seemed to have some pretty good teamwork too. Any reason you exclude that pairing?
-
If he flipped town it would mean either you were scum begging me to shoot you or you were the only one who couldn't be scum at that point. I guess you could have been a suicidal zombie.
capt.h: That would be really weird. Kilga wanted me to shoot huh what over Schezo and I was heavily implying that I wouldn't shoot Schezo at that point.
-
Er huh what over Bardiche
-
If he flipped town it would mean either you were scum begging me to shoot you or you were the only one who couldn't be scum at that point. I guess you could have been a suicidal zombie.
Or I could have theoretically been banking on you not listening to me, given the way you have been not listening to anyone all day. :V
But I can see that position now, yeah.
-
Since it's late, I'm going to at least wait for Schezo before shooting him. I'm pretty awed by how Dormio turned this around into the vigilante being forced at gunpoint to shoot who he lets me but I'm not going to leave him out of the discussion.
Kilga: Seriously if you turn out to be scum and not with Bardiche I will be in double awe.
-
Since I've dug myself a giant hole and you all want to kill me, I feel I should roleclaim so you all know what's on the up and up.
I be boring old vanilla townie, using only my wit and hoping it's enough to get me through the apocalypse. I no longer have anything to fear from Shadoweh shooting me and sacrificing myself for my alignment, because if she does, it will answer more questions to help you all and she'll be following everyone's orders; clearing her for after I die.
-
That won't really help us much after you die though, Schezo. You honestly believe that because I want to shoot you I'll be cleared? Then who do you think is scum right now?
-
No. I honestly believe you all will see when I die and use my connections to people to go from there.
If you don't die when you shoot me though then it's likely that you will get a positive response for listening to the rest of town's thought processes and demands. They seem to know who scum will be depending on my flip and honestly at this point, every one of you look scummy. All I can see at this point is that if I die town will get a lot more information on everyone else's alignment and since I'm on Edible's list it will help you find out if it's legitimate or not. I can't get a read on Kilga either but having me flip confirmed town will help you find his alignment too.
-
ants
eeverywhere
onthecomputer
brb sccereaming
-
No. I honestly believe you all will see when I die and use my connections to people to go from there.
If you don't die when you shoot me though then it's likely that you will get a positive response for listening to the rest of town's thought processes and demands. They seem to know who scum will be depending on my flip and honestly at this point, every one of you look scummy. All I can see at this point is that if I die town will get a lot more information on everyone else's alignment and since I'm on Edible's list it will help you find out if it's legitimate or not. I can't get a read on Kilga either but having me flip confirmed town will help you find his alignment too.
Schezo - What do you think of Edible's roleclaim?
-
Uh, right, I'll just wait for you to get back Serela since you're my other favorite townie.
-
Actually Serp isn't here anyways so Schezo can be alive for awhile.
I wish you didn't look so scummy. I've read and re-read your posts and I can't find a good reason not to shoot you besides that you're the only person everyone agrees is a zombie. For the record though, I didn't sing a whole song about lynching you, just that that's what your Day 1 always says to me. :V
##Kill: Schezo
-
With no further ado, Shadoweh drew her double-barrel shotgun and shot Schezo at point blank range. The latter crumpled to the floor instantly, to a gasp from the crowd.
Shadoweh turned from her kill, and it seemed that she'd have some hard questions to answer momentarily. But just then, Schezo jumped to his feet and lunged at Shadoweh's back with a horrible groan of "Braaaaaaains."
He latched on to his victim's head from behind, intent on gnawing her brain out, but Shadoweh wasted no time in finishing off the zombie. Pointing the shotgun at her own chest, she pulled the trigger, blasting them both away.
Shadoweh, Town Heroic Vigilante, has died after using her ability!
Schezo, Zombie Hitman, capable of sending in an unblockable kill, has been dayvigged!
The day continued, as there was still plenty of time in which to decide the day's sanctioned lynch. If anything, the mutually deadly scuffle would keep the town awake and alert for a few hours longer.
VOTECOUNT - . . . And You're to Blame Edition
PX (1): Colt, Dormio, capt. h
huh what (1): Bardiche
Kilgamayan (0): capt. h
Dormio (0): capt. h
Bardiche (0): capt. h
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: capt. h, Dormio, Edible, huh what, Kilgamayan, NeoSerela, PX, Zakeri
With 10 votes in play, 6 are required to lynch. Just over 46 hours remain in the day.
-
Sweet! That's one of 'em.
Hopefully this should convince people that I wasn't lying? :V
-
All right, let's go through yesterday's end-of-day events, shall we? This is gonna be fairly reportery but it's important to have the notes and links handy for the conclusion at the end.
Serp 314 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583393.html#msg583393): Vote count, shows Conqueror at 4 with a handful of people at 2, including Hourai, and Serela at 1. Important to note, just so there's a vote count basis.
Conqueror 332 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583452.html#msg583452): Filibuster claim. The only change in the vote count between this post and Serp's is Dormio voting for PX who had no votes at the time.
huh what 337 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583469.html#msg583469): Still wants Hourai dead/flipped/whatever, but open to PX or Shadoweh as well. Important phrase: "but if [Hourai] won't work I would easily take PX as well".
Pesco 343 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583482.html#msg583482): Votes Hourai, bringing him up to the non-Conqueror lead.
huh what 344 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583484.html#msg583484): The very next post after Hourai gets put into the lead, huh what opens with "After thinking things over further, I definitely support a PX flip." Which...is not at all a change from the previous opinion expression so why did it necessitate a "after thinking things over further"? And suddenly questions about when to switch votes for Conqueror role purposes arise while mentions of Hourai disappear. This seems to suggest very heavily that huh what was looking for somewhere to go. Granted this post came 6 minutes after Pesco's, but it acknowledges Pesco's and talks to Pesco about Zakeri instead of Hourai, who had been huh what's major target throughout the day and Pesco had just put into the lead, which makes huh what's apparent search for somewhere else to go all the more suspicious.
Serp 373 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583689.html#msg583689): Vote count after a rush of Serela votes (of which I was a part, embarassingly) showing Serela now 1 ahead of Hourai.
Bard 376 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583699.html#msg583699) and 378 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583710.html#msg583710): Goes over all the cases and, despite the vote momentum clearly swinging Serela's way, chalks Serela's play up to laziness instead of scumminess and bring Hourai back up into a tie. The one interesting thing about this pair of posts is that Bard says "there is absolutely no support for NeoSerela that I can gather" when Serela had just bagged three votes in a row.
Pesco 391 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583852.html#msg583852): Puts Hourai back out in front for the mechanics of Conqueror's role. Points to Edible for this, which helps downplay the wool-pull theory about the bucket list.
huh what 438 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584002.html#msg584002): huh what finally reappears with confirmation that he'd prefer Hourai to Serela, but considering the circumstances this opinion is forced because he would look utterly terrible if he switched now.
Rest of the day plays out as we all know. What can be gleaned from this? I admit the choice is easier for me than for most of the rest of you since I have one less option, but:
##Vote: huh what
That dance involving PX looks really awkward. It's like he completely forgot Hourai existed - I cannot fathom why he would make no mention whatsoever of Hourai after Pesco voted him into the non-Conqueror lead - or was just trying to look for any reason he could to get off of Hourai onto someone else to make sure Hourai didn't bite it. Bard's vote, on the other hand, came at a critical juncture (how many times have I said that phrase now?) and put Hourai into a tie for first when there were a couple of other cases he could have latched on to without much effort.
tl;dr: Bard actively pooh-poohed other cases to vote Hourai into a tie when he could have chosen someone else fairly easily, huh what looks like he actively tried to get OFF of Hourai while the filibuster phase of the day was still in its early stages. Bard's support for the Hourai wagon looks a lot more sincere than huh what's in this light.
I will admit that I am very nervous at the idea of three town vig roles combined with the potential Pescible4u's role had - potential it followed through on in a big way - but I strongly dislike playing the setup over playing the game, so my vote sits where it is.
-
So. Many. Vigs. :getdown:
-
Also happy birthday guy. Sorry that the only present I have for you is a vote. :(
Also also every time I read over this I think it sounds a little more awkward, so rather than wait for someone to ask about it I'll just explain it now.
I will admit that I am very nervous at the idea of three town vig roles combined with the potential Pescible4u's role had
I mean this in the sense that I'm nervous that I'm very seriously entertaining the idea that town actually does have these things, which is effectively what I am saying with my vote where it is. It seems very suspect on balance principle alone to give town three killing roles and an investigative role with the potential to identify a specific group of five people as containing at least two scum.
But game > roles, so.
-
It just occurred to me that going over Bard/Schezo and huh what/Schezo interactions might be a good idea for me. >_>
It will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon, though.
-
Wanted to make a desire joke before Schezo dying but I was too late...
Anyway, Edible's list has gone from a little trustable... to a bit more trustable. However, I can't find anything about remaining 3, and it looks like this is going to be the main topic of discussion now?
-
What is with you people and your love of suicide?
Hi Colt.I lurked because I feel that the end points of the Day are the better opportunities because there's more information to be quoted. D1 had conqueror which fixed things there.
Are you really still planning on lurking?
And will you be saying actual stuff in the near future?
Seeing as your (near non-existent) posts contain next to no content at all.
I've already mentioned on Kilga and Shadoweh gets clear because she'll be able to prove her power once she executes it.
Uh, why does Kilgamayan also get a clear? Elaborate on this, please.
Zakeri doesn't exist either. :/
Anyway.
Right now I don't like PX and Bardiche.
PX has... done nothing really.
How I view PX is still the same as yesterday.
His only actions have pretty much been jumping onto the Conqueror wagon, tunneling on Shadoweh, and restating various facts.
Bardiche.
Well, he is on Edible's list, for one.
When Shadoweh was about to shoot him, he just gave up and refused to say anything.
Uh, I had more stuff but I forgot.
I'm still tripping after being pumped full of drugs at the hospital.
I'm going to take a nap and say some more stuff about Bardiche when I wake up.
-
I feel worse than I did before that nap.
It now hurts in my everywhere.
Anyway.
Bardiche claims to have killed Uncertain Kitten, but if you look at his interactions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581550.html#msg581550) with (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582046.html#msg582046) her (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582368.html#msg582368), he does say stuff about her but also keeps mentioning how he wishes he could vote multiple people.
He then spends the rest of the day never mentioning UK again, focusing mainly on huh what.
He also spent most of today going after huh what.
Also, before anybody says something about stopping the vig shot on Bardiche, that was caused by me being suspicious of how Shadoweh was acting.
But, well, she flipped town.
So yeah.
##Vote Bardiche
-
Huh, so Shadoweh can dayvig.
Alright, I am going to propose that Huh What is the absolute scummiest person alive right now and that lynching him will set us on the way to victory. I will provide a list of six arguments to support that Huh What = Scum, and when I am done I hope you will all agree that ##VOTE: Huh What is the only reasonable course of action, so I finally get to have my cake and eat itwe need only mash down on the last remaining scum. Also, I'm posting a wall of text here, because being concise has never helped me! Also because I like being a hypocrite and posting walls despite my aversion to them.
The song and dance begins, of course, with his first case in the game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581605.html#msg581605), which boils down to "Bard seriously wants to lynch Serela over RVS shenanigans", which is an absurd point to pursue and strikes me as the "forced case" scum are trying to push he has been talking of (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581672.html#msg581672). That he later handwaves this as "I was derp" is honestly the only explanation for the behaviour, but derp comes from scum as equally strong as it comes from town.
He later continues (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581661.html#msg581661) to submit that I must have been entirely serious, which remains a ridiculous point to sit on and, taking a leap into HUH WHAT IS SCUM, would permit a scumWhat to sit back for a while and see if there wasn't anything to jump on.
Secondly, the way he jumps off the Bard vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581713.html#msg581713) is a complete handwave and awkward transition. "Oh, on a re-read". Did you really need a re-read to reveal a major epiphany that my first post in the game was not a full blown "Serela is the scummiest player ever and should lynch immediately"? I find this hard to believe, and from an experienced player as Huh What, the line of inquiry is ridiculous.
When he moves on to the Conqueror case, he makes an interesting line of inquiry, but backpedals (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581727.html#msg581727) just as quickly on the case. There is an interesting bit of manipulation here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581768.html#msg581768), where he strikes a semblance between Conqueror and PX's inquiries, states that if PX's inquiries are useless, so are Conqueror's. This question is of course silly because no one thinks their case is nonsensical. The irony in that post that most strikes out isIt looks as if you are scum hanging on too hard to the case they believed was the most convenient so that they do not have to backpedal and come up with serious opinions on other players (as that would both draw attention to them and possibly give them extra chances to slip up).
Hi, how's that vote on me going earlyDay1? And at the end of the post, he even declares my vote on Serela wasn't the "primary reason". Uuuh okay, you had other reasons to suspect me at that juncture?
Diving into the next point, argument #4, we submit this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583133.html#msg583133), and pay specific attention to the line that talks about counterwagons. It's particularly interesting because just earlier (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582621.html#msg582621) he was decrying Shadoweh as scum. Now she's suddenly the counterwagon to scumConq. That he never lets up on Conq until after the reveal (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583469.html#msg583469) (and even then still dares suggest scumConq) is also a curious thing and I do not like it.
He declares Shadoweh scummy here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584844.html#msg584844), accusing her of bussing scumbuddyHourai and restating that the rest of D1 stuff also applies. But later everything is forgiven if Hourai wasn't known to scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584988.html#msg584988). How does it matter? That he drops the case in favour of voting Colt is even more sadfaze, because his Colt case drops to nothing but "Colt is a newbie". That he asserts Colt is a worse PX (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585005.html#msg585005) is amusing, given he asserts PX is scum but doesn't mention Colt much if at all until he votes Colt. Then suddenly Colt is PX2, except worse.
Finally, he conveniently knows (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg585852.html#msg585852) that scumSchezo was given the radio, and his tracking apparently highlights "oneshot" ability. Erh, really? "You saw Shadoweh use action X on player Z, this action is oneshot"? I'd like to hear the exact details on how you knew it was oneshot!
But Bardiche, I hear you say. Couldn't Huh What really have been derp during D1? No, my dear town. He can't have been derp during D1. Because it's just ridiculous how much his opinion flips and how strongly he latched onto me like a helpless puppy.
But Bardiche, quoth you. What if Huh What's role really tells him if an ability is one-shot or not? :S My dear town. What value is there in revealing he knew who the radio was passed to other than to claim Tracker? ... and why would he claim tracker at this stage in the game when he could still attract the NK? There's just no merit in revealing the radio.
There. Six arguments, as promised. I hope that by now you understand that Huh What is absolutely scum and must die. Kilga is just not that interesting a lynch if you line up the wall here. His only real mark against him is "I'll take the bullet for Bard :C", which honestly can't strike me as particularly scummy... how is suicide scummy? It's not.
There. Can I finally get my cake now? :V
Cut by Caedo, response in a new post.
-
To address matters first.
When Shadoweh threatened to shoot me, I felt she was being entirely illogical and was majorly bummed I was about to be eliminated because Shadoweh felt Kilga was acting scummy and then wanted to shoot me. Sorry, but I don't feel like going all WALLS when someone's all "NYAHAHA IMMA SHOOT YOU ANYWAY". Full claim might just as well have benefited a bluffing scumShadoweh, and all the information TOWN needed would be in my flip.
How is my YuGiOh card part of interaction with her? Even if I was scum there's no way I could've known she had a vig shot. And why would I mention UK again after deciding to vig her?
And I spent most of the day going after Huh What because he's scum darnit. :V Do you know how frustrating it is to be absolutely sure person X is acting scummy and the rest of town is going "... :V!" I thought UK was scummier at night (and I don't like to breadcrumb but abandon the crumb) and, unlike Huh What, UK showed no signs of entertaining any inquiries to elucidate her behaviour. Between someone who could slip and someone who town accepted to just blatantly disregard someone voting her for what I felt are valid reasons, removing UK seemed like the safest bet to avoid scum skirting by on the power of ignoring.
UK kept her vote on me for a long time, insisting a particular piece of information is important, and when it was provided she refused to elaborate on why it was important. That was scummy to me so I acted. :V Seriously do I need to keep underlining this, am I the only person who felt it wasn't pro-town to just disregard people and act as UK did?
-
As much as I think huh what is more likely to be scum than you, in that last point there I think huh what was saying his tracker ability was one-shot, not that the action he tracked was one-shot.
-
(For what it's worth, I see no glaring issues with the rest of your case.)
-
... I completely misread it. :V I thought he was referring to the action he tracked. Considering that, one of the arguments becomes null and void.
I don't think that weakens the strength of the case.
-
I would oppose returning the gun simply because I do not wish to die and because Shadoweh already demonstrated she will not permit town to direct the kill. The anti-town attitude of soloing the day while never providing any reasons on why anyone is scum displayed over the day also doesn't really make me eager to permit her to shoot me.
capt h, why is Schezo scummy for voting to L-2? I admit I have no real desire to read back to what particular instance you are referring.
How do Dormios actions clear PX? How does townDormio equate to scumPX, but scumDormio equate to townPX?
I need you to explain a few points about this post Bard.
Now, I can understand not wanting to give Shadoweh her gun back. She nearly shot you after all. However, it's still anti-town to fight the vig kill in this situation.
How do Dormios actions clear PX? How does townDormio equate to scumPX, but scumDormio equate to townPX?
However, this question reeks of scum intent. It feels like a deliberate distraction from Edible's list, and an attempt to make me look for two scum not on the list instead of one.
The intent of this post is to prevent Dormio from giving Shadoweh her vig kill, and to widen the list of possible suspects outside of Edible's list. It reeks of trying to confuse the situation and slow down the elimination of scum. I want to know what you were hoping to acchieve with this post, and your motive for writing it.
-
K, waging a war on the ants at the computer, mostly winning. This consists of forcefully blowing away every ant I see, and after a few hours, it seems to have made using the computer... realistic.
Haven't caught up at all, but one thing I'd really like to say is that capt.h, you are trying waaay too hard, and reading into things to the level of conspiracy theories.
However, this question reeks of scum intent. It feels like a deliberate distraction from Edible's list, and an attempt to make me look for two scum not on the list instead of one.
Okay,um.
Let's look at something you said on the previous page.
3. I stopped being convinced PX was scum when Conq. showed his list. I became pretty sure he wasn't scum when Dormio made that anti-town vig block.
4. I abandoned PX in favor of Dormio because anyone who gets in the way of checking Edible's list is anti-town.
5. Because that all assumes Dormio is not scum, and if nothing else Dormio is in town's way. If Dormio turns out to be town, then I'll attack PX again.
>I abandoned someone not on Edible's list to chase someone else not on Edible's list
And then when someone asks you why not-on-the-list A(Dormio) being town means not-on-the-list B(PX) is scum or vice versa, you say "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO CHANGE THE CONVERSATION TO PEOPLE NOT ON THE LIST". What the hell?
-
Well, you were warned to beware the ants of March.
Will pick up studying Schezo interactions with my bucket list brethren very soon.
-
Bard: Can you NK again tonight?
-
Well this was a grand waste of time, it seems. Here is an anthology of Schezo's comments about huh what and Bard pre-Ediclaim. (The entire post, in fact, is a study of pre-Ediclaim actions, since post-ediclaim actions are going to come with piles of WIFOM.)
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582505.html#msg582505
"Bard makes a good post which I agree with."
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583598.html#msg583598
"huh what looks a little strange for pushing Bard so much but I don't think he's that bad when he's run around with ideas and seems to be trying."
That's it. :|
Also while looking for those I stopped and looked at Bard's posts as well and basically never saw any mention of Schezo.
huh what was only mildly better. He mentioned Schezo merely in passing here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581751.html#msg581751) in a way where no opinion can be gleaned (similar to this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg582621.html#msg582621) post later), and there was then this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581831.html#msg581831), which is kinda-I-guess accusatory but doesn't appear to be anything serious between the two of them through the courseo f the short conversation and kinda ends on a non-conclusion from huh what that suggests he's more interested in hearing from Shadoweh instead. This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583133.html#msg583133) post, however, does finally provide an opinion on Schezo, for all that "reading him as derp" is worth (and I honestly don't think it is worth much but it's still better than nothing).
Finally, there's this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584988.html#msg584988), which is an L-2 admonishment more than an actual opinion, so, uh.
So what can be concluded here? That none of them ever really interacted with each other in any meaningful way. Schezo did not really have clear opinions of either of them, Bard did not have a clear opinion of Schezo, and huh what's lone opinion expression was "reading him as derp", which isn't very useful, so. Basically this was a giant waste of time in terms of trying to figure out which of Bard and huh what is more likely to be Schezo's scum buddy, and nothing in here comes even remotely close to weighing up to my feelings on Bard getting on Hourai at a swing time vs. huh what looking for all the world like he was trying to get himself OFF of the Hourai wagon.
I had several small dizzy spells while going through the game to find this non-information so I am going to take a nap now and I dare any of you to try and stop me.
-
K, waging a war on the ants at the computer, mostly winning. This consists of forcefully blowing away every ant I see, and after a few hours, it seems to have made using the computer... realistic.
Haven't caught up at all, but one thing I'd really like to say is that capt.h, you are trying waaay too hard, and reading into things to the level of conspiracy theories.
Okay,um.
Let's look at something you said on the previous page.>I abandoned someone not on Edible's list to chase someone else not on Edible's list
And then when someone asks you why not-on-the-list A(Dormio) being town means not-on-the-list B(PX) is scum or vice versa, you say "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO CHANGE THE CONVERSATION TO PEOPLE NOT ON THE LIST". What the hell?
No, I meant why was Bard suggesting that there might be two scum not on the list? Why did Bard think that there was a possibility of 4 scum in addition to a traitor role, and decide to bring that possibility up to question why I thought there was only one scum not on the list?
See, I don't think Dormio and PX can both be scum at the same time. He thought both could be scum. I think that assertion is strange.
-
Huh What did have a meaningful discussion about Schezo, but it was the only one I could find.
(Apologies for suddenly being Baity formatting-wise, but there's a lot to talk about and I'd like to seperate the important stuff from everything else.)
I dislike like how people are throwing around Edible conspiracy theories so soon. The notion that a scum would make a claim like this with a vig around when said scum has generally flown under the radar and is not even close to being on the chopping block is pretty ridiculous.
It should be noted that I strongly believe Shadoweh to be town at this juncture due to the circumstances of her claim if the theories about Hourai being a traitor are true, and that I also know for a fact that she did not attempt to do anything other than pass on the radio last night (which means that her being a scum dayvig going on the NK is out of the picture). I'm also aware of who currently has Set B, but I will keep quiet about that if they do not want to disclose it publically.
Schezo is definitely my first choice out of all Edible's targets right now. His ED2 wagon jump on her seems way too much like he's using the opinions of a dead townie in lieu of his own, and his attacks on Shadoweh in general have often come off as reportery shotgun attacks without any significantly heavy points to hang her over. As for people other than Shadoweh, Schezo's opinions on them typically boil down to one-liners which do not clearly reveal any particular suspicion. I re-read through all his posts and could honestly not tell who else he thought was scum at all, and his completely unexplained change of heart from PX being a blatant bandwagonner (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581829.html#msg581829) to a decent-looking player with conviction cleared by meta (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583598.html#msg583598) struck me as a bit odd especially. I'd like to see him go back and explain how that happened, considering how I was pressured for something similiar. Schezo's one-liner opinions on players other than Shadoweh are actually rather inconsistant in general if you look at his posting history, and he seems to discard and/or alter them fairly frequently between posts.
I also find his interactions with his Hourai vote to be very interesting, considering the traitor interactions and the possibility that Hourai had a buddy who could tap into the radio conversations. Between Schezo's Hourai vote and unvote, Hourai revealed that he had radio access, which could possibly mean that scum suddenly realized Hourai had access to their information and that he was likely to be the traitor (though this is relying on the belief that scum knew of the existance of a traitor beforehand).
As for Schezo's buddy, I find Kilgamayan to be the best choice there after looking into their interactions today, due to their blatant shilling of eachother in a few of their posts today making a link between them apparent. I strongly disagree with Kilga's claim that Schezo's other posts have been solid for reasons I have already explained and I would like him to elaborate on how the content was "solid", considering how easily Schezo altered everything aside from his Shadoweh case between posts. It should be noted that I don't think Kilga's recent pressure on Schezo makes them any less likely to be buddies, since if scum were in this situation it seems likely that bussing would be their best chance of recovering from it early on.
In spite of this, I actually have little on Kilga beyond his awkward link to Schezo, since it seemed to me that Kilga's vote on Conqueror was rather believable. I would strongly prefer to see Schezo eat the bullet first, since I have much more conviction on him and could definitely be convinced to attack somebody other than Kilga depending on the circumstances of Schezo's flip.
##Unvote
##Vote Schezo to reflect my opinions, though I really have no idea how we're even supposed to vote in this current situation anyway. <_< FWIW, I haven't dropped my charges against Colt either, but he's obviously not worth pursuing right now.
@Bardiche: You can't really fix something after it has already been posted, unless you're expecting that Colt's buddies would force him to run all his posts by them first, which I doubt. If you want to interpret Colt's actions from the PoV of somebody being carried through the game by buddies, it actually seems quite possible that they would request his help hammering on Conqueror, only for him to lose motivation out of fear somebody will jump on him for it.
It doesn't really seem like you have much on my D2 opener beyond the shaky attack on my Colt case, honestly. |:
Bard and Shadoweh should probably both fullclaim considering the circumstances of the day, seriously what the hell is up with so many vigs running around this game. (I'm actually wondering if a massclaim among Edible's targets might actually be helpful, since only two of us haven't softclaimed anyway. Not too sure thought due to a lack of experience with massclaims, so I'd like comments on this.) I would also like to know why Bard isn't even remotely suspicious that there's another claimed killing role running around when a townie has already flipped as a one-shot vig. That strikes me as off.
-
Here are my thoughts on Bardiche, Huh What, and Schezo:
Hourai tried pretty hard to start a train on Huh What on day one back when no one had more than three votes, and it backfired on him. So it was either a grave scum miscalculation, or Huh What is probably town.
Kilga tried to eat a bullet for Bard. That's really bad scum playing. So he's either town, or a scum buddy.
Now, I say scum buddy because there is the possibility that Edible's test captured three scum, not just two. With this possibility, it makes sense that to prevent the destruction of a more powerful scum ability/player, two of the scum would be willing to bite the bullet and let the third scum live. Otherwise, I really don't get why town Kilga would eat a bullet knowing himself town for Bardiche, who we don't know is town.
Bard has done several things that scream scum so loudly that it's actually hard to believe he's scum. He killed UK night one, exactly like he said he would in signups if he were scum. And he hasn't actually claimed vig powers - we just assumed it. The only thing he claimed was that he killed UK. He's taken refuge in audacity.
Now I might be over thinking things, and I might think better of it later, but I'm willing to bet Bardiche is more likely than the others.
##Vote: Bardiche
-
Kilga tried to eat a bullet for Bard.
When did this happen? Not saying it didn't but it sounds odd and I don't recall it, and there's a whole ton of D2 so if you already knew where this happened, it would be nice to see.
Anyway, your entire case on Bard is just "well he has the power to kill someone at night at least one time, in addition to the scum NK." (Because I highly doubt UK would use her vig N1 and completely lose her investigation abilities, when she could instead, say, investigate N1 and vig N2, so yes, in addition to the scum nightkill instead of being it. And Affinity makes more sense then UK as a scum NK.).
Anyway, my point is, that... doesn't really seem like a case! Having the power to kill someone doesn't really make someone scummy at all, unless it's in a way that they could likely be the scum doing the nightkill, which is not the case at the moment.
Not only that, but if Bard is able (and willing, with his role specifics) to NK again tonight, then he is someone we want to keep ALIVE today so that we can have him knock another person off Edible's list. Then if there is more then one NK and neither of them are on Edible's list, Bardiche is quite probably not town.
tl;dr we want to lynch Huhwhat or Kilga today.
-
Basically.
Lynch one of them, Bard kills the other at night.
-
Basically.
Lynch one of them, Bard kills the other at night.
Is this necessary? If we successfully lynch scum there is a low chance the other(s) would be scum as well.
-
I seriously doubt that Bard is a scum vig btw. Nobody has counterclaimed killing UK, and common sense says that UK would scout first, then kill when you're guaranteed to hit scum. And since Schezo, who was flipped AS a scum vig, I find two scum vigs to be ridiculous, otherwise the mod deserves to die.
-
Is this necessary? If we successfully lynch scum there is a low chance the other(s) would be scum as well.
Well yeah, if we lynch scum, it goes without saying Bard would not need to kill by the list.
-
If we lynch scum, I'm all for him targeting a policy lynch.
-
Do you have anything else to say, Colt?
Anything at all?
Warning - Beep beep, I'm a jeep.
Personally, I don't care what Bardiche's role is unless he has a way to prove it.
Otherwise I'm going to keep him full of drugs, rendering incapable of using stuff.
Warning - Beep beep, I'm a jeep.
Warning - Beep beep, I'm a(ry
Or we can believe he's a town nightvig and I can drug someone else.
-
...uh yeah, please don't disable Bard's powers right now. Even if he ISN'T town, if he kills tonight and not by Edible's list (unless we lynch scum ofc) then he's pretty much claimed not-town in the process. That's what happens when you claim a vig power, you generally end up needing to obey what everyone else says if you like being alive.
I wish Bard could appear and clear up whether he's killing tonight or not though, so we don't end up spending all day discussing it and then he can't/won't anyway.
-
No, I meant why was Bard suggesting that there might be two scum not on the list? Why did Bard think that there was a possibility of 4 scum in addition to a traitor role, and decide to bring that possibility up to question why I thought there was only one scum not on the list?
See, I don't think Dormio and PX can both be scum at the same time. He thought both could be scum. I think that assertion is strange.
More that that list was on the back of my mind rather than the front. I never questioned why you thought there was only one scum not on the list; I asked why you declared x was not scummy because y was scummy, as the scumminess of x should have no bearing on the scumminess of y.
Your case assumes I knew I would be scum before the game began, and that I would definitely kill UK on N1 as scum with all abandon for victory conditions and whatnot. Your case on me is "Bard is too scummy to be scum", and my scummy actions are in not precisely saying I am a vigilant and that I declared before the game had begun that if UK died N1, it'd be me.
I cannot declare a kill tonight, so if a second person drops beside the NK it is not through my actions.
-
Also, capt h's attack on me is bizarre, and coupled with the weirdness I outlined earlier, I'd pursue him tomorrow (unless it's Kilga who needs pursuing).
scumKilga "taking a bullet" for me only makes sense if Kilga is scum and I am not - because if Kilga is scum and I am scum, Kilga taking a bullet for me would still cause scrutiny on me and a lynch the following day. Whereas Kilga taking a bullet for townBard would result in a mislynch the next day.
townKilga taking the kill in my stead is a matter that is indeed weird, but there are a number of explanations I can find. I'll revisit that later, once we get the flip.
-
@ NeoSerela - This is where Kilga tries to get between Shadoweh and Bard:
Anyway, for actual opinions on that tiny list (why do I get the feeling that it was always going to be me and that the list was just for show?), if Bard is seriously also a vig then I vote you shoot me, because I'm pretty much dead set on Schezo/huh what being the scum team from Edible's list (again, assuming Edible is not lying scum himself).
Obviously I'd prefer Schezo (or huh what but that isn't happening) get shot instead of me but, well, I'd prefer I get shot over Bard.
@ PX:
I seriously doubt that Bard is a scum vig btw. Nobody has counterclaimed killing UK, and common sense says that UK would scout first, then kill when you're guaranteed to hit scum. And since Schezo, who was flipped AS a scum vig, I find two scum vigs to be ridiculous, otherwise the mod deserves to die.
Schezo, Zombie Hitman, capable of sending in an unblockable kill, has been dayvigged!
You know, I thought the hitman unblockable kill meant that if Schezo did the nightkill, then it couldn't be blocked, rather than Schezo having an extra kill one night.
I guess that could be a mafia vig. What does everyone else think?
_______________________________
Anyway, my problem with Kilga is that I have trouble believing scum would be suicidal. My problem with Huh What is Hourai's interactions with him. But since it doesn't look like Bard at the moment, I suppose stressed out scum would advise killing themselves.
##Unvote
##Vote Kilgamayan
-
Also, capt h's attack on me is bizarre, and coupled with the weirdness I outlined earlier, I'd pursue him tomorrow (unless it's Kilga who needs pursuing).
I would prefer you pursue me on day 2 rather than only start on day 3. Once we decide on today's lynch, I would like as much time as you need to answer all your questions. And it would be bad if we found Edible's second scum and hadn't even started considering options outside his list.
My weirdness about you is due to Hourai's weirdness about Huh What and Kilga's all-around suicidal weirdness about you. I have trouble believing the other two options could be scum given the circumstances, so I'm targetting you by process of elimination. I've already covered how I think we can find scum by discussing the people Hourai avoided talking about: Hourai didn't mention you or Kilga. So I think it's either you or Kilga that's scum, and with Kilga willing to take a hit for you, I doubt it's him.
-
Huh What did have a meaningful discussion about Schezo, but it was the only one I could find.
Which was why I specified that I only went through what happened before Edible's claim. After Edible's claim things get a lot messier because they HAD to focus on Schezo, since he was on the list along with them. Once a handful of people have been marked for deletion, bussing becomes a lot more likely because there's basically nothing to lose by trying it.
I must admit confusion as to why your vote is on me, largely because your last sentence in your last post says "So I think it's either you or Kilga that's scum, and with Kilga willing to take a hit for you, I doubt it's him." If you doubt I'm scum, why am I your vote?
-
Which was why I specified that I only went through what happened before Edible's claim. After Edible's claim things get a lot messier because they HAD to focus on Schezo, since he was on the list along with them. Once a handful of people have been marked for deletion, bussing becomes a lot more likely because there's basically nothing to lose by trying it.
I must admit confusion as to why your vote is on me, largely because your last sentence in your last post says "So I think it's either you or Kilga that's scum, and with Kilga willing to take a hit for you, I doubt it's him." If you doubt I'm scum, why am I your vote?
In spite of needing to have meaningful discussions about Schezo after Edible's bargain, Huh what was the only one to actually have said discussions. Bard and you mention Schezo, but even after being placed on Edible's list the mentions of him you two make that I considered usable are a little lacking.
I don't think it's you, but PX had a point about Bard. It seems weird that he would be scum. There is the possibility that Schezo used his vig on Affinity (if he had one) and bard used a normal kill on UK, which would explain the two kills, but it seems unlikely that Bard could be scum. I wish Bard said he had vig tonight, because then I could let him kill either you or Huh What depending on the flip.
Basically, I have to pick between three options I don't like. Hourai's info tells me not Huh What and Huh What has posted a lot of material on scum before scum flips relative to you and Bard, logic tells me to overlook Bard for the reasons everyone has mentioned about how no one else claimed vigs last night, and all that's left is you asking us to kill you before Bard.
It all feels wrong. Everything about the three of you is just off. But one of you is scum.
-
Urgh, I honestly haven't been able to find anything notable regarding Schezo from either Kilga or Bard on D1 from re-reads, considering that Schezo was lurky and generally inconsistant as hell. Still, I'm inclined to believe that Bard is town due to how his Hourai vote played out.
As for Kilga, it should be noted that during most of the Conqueror shenanigans, he clinged onto Serela the entire time without even really contemplating the Hourai wagon once. Even when he came back near the end of the day, he let the Serela wagon pass without even giving his opinions on Hourai under the notion that Conqueror was about to filibust anyway. Was there really no time to at least give some sort of comment on the Hourai train? Given that Hourai flipped scum immediately after and how I have believed Serela to be town for some time and still strongly continue to do so, this does not set well with me and I am surprised I did not notice it on an earlier readthrough.
Beyond that, a general lack of attention paid to Hourai and Schezo on D1 does not do Kilga any favors. It's kind of like he forgot Schezo even existed until D2, and even then Kilga's Schezo case was relegated to the backburner. Instead, most of Kilga's D1 was spent on Conqueror (who was jumped on around the first signs of people being willing to start a wagon on him) and Shadoweh, both of which have flipped town at this point. While a townie chasing other townies on D1 is not completely unreasonable, the complete ignorance towards all the players who have flipped scum at this point does not look good.
##Vote Kilgamayan
Regarding my late D1 actions: I wanted PX flipped instead of Hourai because I figured he would become the most obvious target for a D2 lynch provided Conqueror was telling the truth and therefore town (it should be noted that following a Conqueror flip + townie Serela flip, which I was expecting at the time due to a lack of town interest in flipping Hourai, I would have likely pursued PX as my primary target on D2 over Hourai. Colt was not a viable target to me at that point seeing as he had not yet expressed his desire to jump onto Conqueror.) The mention of me thinking things through was because PX had switched from my secondary choice to my primary choice between posts. Naturally, when the day essentially turned into Hourai vs Serela, I returned to Hourai, seeing as he was still fairly high on my scum list. I can understand why this would be interpreted as trying to avoid getting Hourai flipped, but seeing as PX was my second pick for scum at the time, I don't think the choice was exactly unprecedented.
In other news, I'm somewhat more suspicious of PX, given how Kilga handeled PX vs Serela during late D1 and also how scum!Schezo continued to tunnel on Shadoweh during early D2 as well. Might actually want to see him lynched more than Colt now, barring the chance that Bardiche is the scum here and sacrificed Hourai for major cred. I'm starting to think that the Shadoweh wagon in general had ill intentions following Edible's revelation, considering how Schezo stayed onto it and how Kilga jumped onto her when it looked like it was possible to end her without worrying about a vig kill.
-
I have no particular defense for my D1 vote placement, but I will at least address this:
Was there really no time to at least give some sort of comment on the Hourai train?
In my case? Yes. You'll notice the post from Suwako at 5:27 PM Eastern, my first post after the handful of Hourai votes. That was from my second job, my tutoring job, where my shift started at 5:30. I will be glad to link you to my center's page on the company website so you can see I do indeed work there in addition to forwarding you the e-mail with the schedule for this past week if you don't believe me.
By the time I got home and had a chance to sit down and think about the game, I knew time was running out (which you should be able to sympathize with given how you flipped out over the impending deadline much earlier than that) and I had enough time to skim through the topic and see people accusing each other of lying about their roles. The resolution to all those accusations was unclear to me so I asked if anyone could definitively back up their liar accusation on anyone else because if someone actually got caught lying about there wouldn't be a choice; the liar would need to be voted off the island. In the process of writing up my "hey guyz wats going on" post I got cut off by Shadoweh telling Conqueror to filibust and at that point it didn't matter what I thought about anything.
Regarding my late D1 actions: I wanted PX flipped instead of Hourai because I figured he would become the most obvious target for a D2 lynch provided Conqueror was telling the truth and therefore town (it should be noted that following a Conqueror flip + townie Serela flip, which I was expecting at the time due to a lack of town interest in flipping Hourai, I would have likely pursued PX as my primary target on D2 over Hourai. Colt was not a viable target to me at that point seeing as he had not yet expressed his desire to jump onto Conqueror.) The mention of me thinking things through was because PX had switched from my secondary choice to my primary choice between posts. Naturally, when the day essentially turned into Hourai vs Serela, I returned to Hourai, seeing as he was still fairly high on my scum list. I can understand why this would be interpreted as trying to avoid getting Hourai flipped, but seeing as PX was my second pick for scum at the time, I don't think the choice was exactly unprecedented.
There are two things I find problematic with this.
- That is an awfully presumptive attitude about how Day 2 was going to play out. How often does Day 2 play out the way we expect it to on Day 1 before we even get to see any flips? Less often than not, I imagine. And look at that, it was a bad assumption to make, because PX has not at all been the focus of today. "Well of course he wasn't the focus he wasn't on the bucket list" which is exactly the point of why we don't make these assumptions because you don't know what's going to happen in the interim. (Never mind that he wasn't getting a whole lot of attention outside of Dormio before the bucket list claim anyway because so much of it focused on Shadoweh instead.) You don't make D1 voting decisions based on who you think will garner the most attention D2, you make D1 voting decisions based on who you read as the scummiest person on D1.
- What is this "lack of town interest in flipping Hourai" to which you refer? At the time you made that post, Hourai had more non-Conqueror votes than anyone else.
Let me repeat that, just so it's clear.
Hourai had more non-Conqueror votes than anyone else.
Your claim that town lacked interest in flipping him is bull, because if there really was no interest then he wouldn't have been the filibust vote leader at any point in time. Never mind that basically no one had any good things to say about the guy.
-
VOTECOUNT - This Day Has 96 Hours Edition
Kilgamayan (2): capt. h, huh what
huh what (2): Bardiche, Kilgamayan
Bardiche (1): Dormio, capt. h
PX (1): Colt, Dormio, capt. h
Dormio (0): capt. h
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: Edible, NeoSerela, PX, Zakeri
With 10 votes in play, 6 are required to lynch. 24 hours remain in the day.
-
I was thinking things over and then writing that post before Pesco had posted (I guess I can't prove this since I never actually mentioned that he ninja'd me, but the "Hi Pesco" and the shortness of my response to him should at least be somewhat indicative that it was written on the spot and that I did not expect his post), so at the time, Hourai only had the votes of myself and capt. h. Considering how the latter had been somewhat fickle regarding his votes during D1 and his Hourai vote was rather weak in the first place, I was expecting him to switch off. Nobody else had really shown major interest in Hourai beyond a small namedrop, but Conqueror and Shadoweh had both claimed that they wished to see Serela flipped, and IIRC you and Affinity had said negative things about Serela at that point.
-
I had assumed that you had been writing since before Pesco posted because 6 minutes would have been a short amount of time to get that post off after his. Even with the shortness of the response, however, I still do not understand why you would not at least acknowledge his Hourai vote, which would have been very hard to miss given that it was bolded and separated from everything else (not to mention the last part of the post IIRC).
-
@mod: It's been 48 hours, has Zak been pecked to death by zombie chokobos?
-
I've decided that his modkill will take place at the end of the day, if he doesn't show up with a really good explanation.
-
Just a warning that I Might not make it back for the deadline.
@mod: Are scum forced to Nightkill?
-
Just a warning that I Might not make it back for the deadline.
@mod: Are scum forced to Nightkill?
Then you should probably vote now. We need 6 to lynch until Zak is modkilled, and we have two scum. It could be tough to get the numbers needed for a lynch if both you and Zak abstain.
-
@mod: Are scum forced to Nightkill?
I can't answer that question.
-
Grumble grumble weekends grumble. I won't be able to type up a more formative response until early-ish tomorrow afternoon, but I'd still prefer a Kilga lynch given previous discussions, or a Bard lynch because Shadoweh flipped town and it's incredibly hard to believe that there are three town vig roles. It is extremely likely he is, if not scum, then at least third-party. Huh what is not much of a priority for me ATM.
##vote Kilgamayan
-
:|
So you have nothing to say in regards to the cases put forth on huh what?
-
I mean I know you said you don't have time right now, but to just ignore their existence entirely is really just unsporting.
-
Questions about your powers Edible: Is it usable more than once and can it be used on yourself?
-
Hey Edible, can you masscheck more than once? Cut by Colt.
Anyway.
##Unvote
Since it doesn't look like we're going to flip Bardiche today.
Warning - CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN
Uh, I fell asleep on my keyboard for the past two hours. :ohdear:
Ok, I wasted an hour staring at this and now there's a game of DotS going. I'll try to make another post in an hour or so.
-
Questions about your powers Edible: Is it usable more than once and can it be used on yourself?
Colt - since I would like to start talking about players outside the list before the day is up, I'd like to point out the following - Edible should not answer that question.
If the answer is yes, saying so now would be suicide.
I'd like to know why you asked though. The scum benefit to knowing the answer would be immense - picking between Bard's vig powers or Edible's testing powers, a "yes" would make Edible the prime scum target tonight, and a "no" would make Bard the prime scum target. Your all around lack of content was already telling, but posting a one-liner fish for information that only scum could benefit from does not make you look very town.
-
Only scum could benefit from? That's not correct. Even if I didn't ask, it was still a possibility. I was pretty hesitant to ask this question myself until after Shadow's dayvig due to fear of scum gimmicks. Also, Dormio was about to request that information as well.
It's up to Edible whether he wants to answer it or not. (Or to lie to it)
-
Now, back to the whole "traitor" buisness.
First, Schezo votes NeoSerela because of this:
Hourai: Even though he seems to have drive behind what he's doing, it's all very shady. I doubt you all will get on his wagon by the end of the day.
NeoS: is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. The way he seems to be tied with a lot of people makes him a good candidate for what I would be willing to jump on, coupled with the fact he hasn't said anything noteworthy in a while and his latest big post may as well have not even been there. Just the fact that he's tied with so many people makes him what I would think is a good information lynch.
##Unvote:
##Vote: NeoSerela
However, he then flips to Hanged Hourai:
Pesco: Sorry if I gave you the wrong vibe, but what I meant about clearing Dormio a bit was that he does bring up stuff, try to fix it and run around while confusing us all. That's what he did last game and I get the feeling that's what he's doing in this one.
Wellll, I want to see if the roleclaim is really believable now. This was also who I preferred earlier but though it wasn't going to happen. It sounds a bit overpowered IMO but let's see.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Hanged Hourai
cut: wait what? Is someone lying? What part is your role Hourai?
At this point he was the tiebreaker vote. Both players were at L-3, and he was on NeoSerela's wagon He then unvotes altogether, even though a NeoSerela vote would have probably been better for him.
Later, he gives us this:
I also think traitor is just a flavoring issue not a role since it's highly possible Hourai was just tipped off to claim he had listening powers.
So with Schezo's flip, I'm far more confident at this point that "traitor" is not at all flavor, but in fact a role that gathered information for scum.
Only scum could benefit from? That's not correct. Even if I didn't ask, it was still a possibility. I was pretty hesitant to ask this question myself until after Shadow's dayvig due to fear of scum gimmicks. Also, Dormio was about to request that information as well.
It's up to Edible whether he wants to answer it or not. (Or to lie to it)
What's this about Dormio being about to request it?
First, how would you know what Dormio is about to request?
And second, what makes you say Dormio was requesting it?
-
Hurr, one game turned into 3.
Warning - Honk Honk. :o)
What's this about Dormio being about to request it?
First, how would you know what Dormio is about to request?
And second, what makes you say Dormio was requesting it?
Hey Edible, can you masscheck more than once? Cut by Colt.
Anyway, reading now.
Post incoming.
-
For those asking:
I'm a biologist and had enough of my equipment left to perform one blood sample test. Sadly, my equipment was somewhat fruity, and I could only test folks en masse. Even more sadly, a certain rabbit used my ability for me last night.
It would not appear Edible has a second shot.
-
Okay, so Kilgamayan is L-3 and huh what is L-4.
Both Kilgamayan and Bardiche are going after huh what.
I still don't like Bardiche, but apparently that's not happening until tomorrow.
As for Kilgamayan, although I disliked his early D1, that's all I have on him pretty much.
Though, they do seem to be teaming on huh what pretty hard.
I do think that they make valid points about huh what, but at this point I'm leaning towards Kilgamayan.
##Vote Kilgamayan
Let's see if anything changes by tomorrow morning.
Warning - Honk Honk. (o:
I'm incapable of performing any logical thought at a somewhat decent rate right now.
-
Good morning.
At least Kilga is paying attention. Christ. I should probably unvote him just for that.
Back in a few hours.
-
EBWOP: I should note before I go that given the choice between Bard third-party and Bard scum, third party sounds far, far more likely. If I had any more evidence that he was scum, I'd be voting him. Unfortunately, I can't be sure if potential-third-party-Bard would set off my ability.
I think I am going to unvote pending a reread. I had a thought before bed and chewed on it for a little while.
##unvote
-
I should really pay more attention to the crossed out sections. Sorr about that Colt.
Good morning.
At least Kilga is paying attention. Christ. I should probably unvote him just for that.
Back in a few hours.
No, I saw that too, but I still found Colt's and Dormio's request odd.
I find it odd because they both fish for information that could easily turn you into tonight's primary target for scum. If you actually had the ability to test more than once, then telling us today would be a really bad idea.
Although considering that either Huh What, Kilga, or Bard are scum, I suppose scum would already know the answer to that question and not need to ask and draw attention to themselves. So I apologize, Colt and Dormio.
-
Huh What ignoring everything I wrote on him just to attack Kilga makes me sad faze. What's with people and ignoring me? Guh.
The case on Kilga is uninteresting and I would not support a Kilgamayan lynch unless it becomes a situation of Not Me over Me.
Re: capt h, by pursue I mean to call for your head. I get no good feelings from you at all, given a lot of the game you spent just declaring so and so should post, citing average post count even though it is not indicative of content and things. We'll do this tomorrow, should the bucket list not be settled by then.
-
:getdown: :getdown: :getdown: :getdown: :getdown:
Looking at the cases, I like the ones on holywhat more than the Kilga cases.
##Vote: Huh What
And now it's shaping up to look like a no lynch, since if nobody switches, then it'll require all 3 people (Neo, Edible, Colt) to agree on one person to get a lynch.
I'll be missing until the deadline, although I might make it back minutes before.
-
Hum.
Still rereading, but I have a question.
Kilga/Bard: In the potential event huh what is not scum, what would you plan to do tomorrow?
-
Huhwhat has shown to have a role with information and expressed desire to communicate with me over a radio tomorrow. For this reason, I would like to hold off on lynching Huhwhat today, on the chance that he is not scum. If Kilga doesn't flip scum, I'm fine with lynching Huhwhat tomorrow if people prefer him over Bard since his flip will confirm his info anyway.
On the case of Bard, wouldn't be surprised if he's third party, but I don't really think he's scum. This brings up the interesting matter of whether the third party is a zombie capable of triggering Edible's test. Since he can't NK tonight anyway, a Bard lynch would be fine with me, but that doesn't really look like it's happening, so process of elimination leaves the best choice to be...
##Vote Kilgamayan
Oh, Kilga claiming would be cool too, since he's at what, L-2, and a couple of votes ahead of Huhwhat. And since a big piece of the reasoning behind my vote is I want huhwhat alive for information, so if Kilga had a role that ALSO got cool info, well.
edibleninja:I assume they'd vote for eachother since the other would be a zombie.
-
And now it's shaping up to look like a no lynch
I'm pretty sure people would switch to ensure it's not a no-lynch, especially since at the minimum we'd be chipping off Edible's list.
-
Edible: I have been thinking for a while about such a thing, even with how much conviction I have in the fact that huh what's Hourai vote ended up being incredibly insincere in the end. It recently occurred to me that your provided list was a Scum Schezo and, yourself aside, the four best talkers still alive in the game. In working through the player list systematically I discovered that, even at this juncture, if town lynched people on the list one by one and there were no successful NK stops or additional vig kills, they would lose on parity to a scum team of yourself and someone not on the list after the Night 4 NK brought the game population down to 4, 2 scum and 2 non-scum, and everyone that was not on the list would quite possibly not even stop to consider that they were being led around by the nose. (If Zakeri gets modkilled in the meantime, the game would end after the Day 4 mislynch instead.) The fact that your reaction to Schezo's flip was to do nothing but endorse your own position doesn't help my feelings at all in that regard. I cannot honestly say I would not at least strongly consider pursuing you.
There are, however, two additional things that push against the idea of picking you over Bard:
- The whole idea has a conspiracy theory feel to me, which I naturally don't like.
- As much as I'd like to use against you what I feel to be a rather lackluster hunting effort on your part today (though this may be tinged OMGUS given one of your previously stated reasons for wanting me dead is because I'm a good talker), Shadoweh was far worse than you in the sense of "my role means I don't have to try today" and she flipped town.
So to answer your question with a non-answer, I don't know. The best I can tell you is that I would not kneejerk vote Bard. I might ultimately decide he is more likely to be scum than you, but it's not a guarantee.
-
Also not particularly interested in roleclaiming until Edible's reread is done and I get back from lunch (Five Guys > Mafier), mysterious mystery is better off mysterious for the time being, Serela doesn't scare me. I will say, however, that between my comments on me dying ahead of Bard and my getting offended at Edible voting me for being a good talker, it shouldn't be overly difficult to piece together what I can do.
-
posting to say that I have no intention of soiling my honor with a modkill.
I apologize for not posting more today, but I had a head cold a few days back, took some cold medicine, and couldn't focus. Before I knew it, I was 400+ Posts behind on this game, and I always make a point of figuring out everything in the game before posting anything. I'm hereby dropping that ideal in favor of helping the town in whatever way I can.
I have information that may help ensure a scum lynch today, but before I can use it, I need a fullclaim from Kilgamayan.
I've completely given up reading Day one in hopes of catching up my reread in time today. I've so far gone over a hundred+ posts, and I've only transcribed, like, 16 of them in my notes because of all the useless posts about information only two people who are both town are privy to, and about whether or not Traitor is a role or an alignment. Seriously, If I wasn't so infatuated with my honor mentioned above, I'd have just messaged Serp to Modkill me right now.
As it stands right now, I think Kilgamayan is most likely to be town between the three remaining on Edible's list. I can't decide between Bardiche or Huh what as scum, since I haven't gotten to any of Bard's posts yet, but right now I'd be putting a vote on huh what.
Well, if I had a votecount, I would be.
Cut by Kilgamayan - Okay, that's fine.
-
Oh hey you're here.
Well, if you have extra info, how long are you going to be around? I don't know how long lunch will be but it will probably be over an hour, and if you have something to share I'd rather let you do it while you're still around.
-
Okay change of plans because I forgot I have rehearsal at 3 and we may end up going right from lunch to that considering how far away Five Guys is. It's not like scum will be able to do much with this info anyway.
I HAVE THE EXTRAORDINARY AND AMAZING ABILITY TO DO absobloodylutely nothing because I am vanilla town. It has been very frustrating to watch everyone else talk about their neat little toys the existence of which I was not aware but I guess sometimes you're the bug. (My bitching about Edible writing me off for being a talker should make more sense now in light of the fact that I literally can't do anything BUT talk this game.)
Be back later,. hopefully still alive.
-
I'm probably going to be here all day, since I've already gotten in the zone of reading this thing and don't want to do anything to pull myself away now.
Cut: Yeah, I'm definitely certain Kilgamayan is town now.
-
After Kilga's 828, I suppose I kind of saw that claim coming :V
So Zak, what is this information you say you have that will help catch scum today? You've got that fullclaim you asked for :3
-
I've already given out the important part (Kilgamayan is town), But if you're uncomfortable with just that, All I can give you is a partial claim of my role.
-
Uh, said extra info would be very nice. My reread isn't presently doing Kilga any favors.
- As much as I'd like to use against you what I feel to be a rather lackluster hunting effort on your part today (though this may be tinged OMGUS given one of your previously stated reasons for wanting me dead is because I'm a good talker),
Hey, I had 16 pages of D1 bullcrap to read through, and mafiers is never a priority for me on the weekends. Cut me some slack. <_<;
So to answer your question with a non-answer, I don't know. The best I can tell you is that I would not kneejerk vote Bard. I might ultimately decide he is more likely to be scum than you, but it's not a guarantee.
Thanks for your response.
Cut: Yeah, I'm definitely certain Kilgamayan is town now.
Tracker maybe?
Because man, if you are then that makes huh what look a whole lot worse. I realize asking for more info from you isn't necessarily kosher, but you've made what, two posts all game before an hour ago? You're not exactly in a position to instill confidence without more solid info to back it up. I seem to be placing more faith in role results than in scumhunting this game anyway; such is the fate of role madness.
Okay change of plans because I forgot I have rehearsal at 3 and we may end up going right from lunch to that considering how far away Five Guys is. It's not like scum will be able to do much with this info anyway.
har har you don't live a five-minute walk from a five guys 8)
I've already given out the important part (Kilgamayan is town), But if you're uncomfortable with just that, All I can give you is a partial claim of my role.
Man, what is with people who are in terrible positions refusing to claim as of late?
Alright, fine. Zak, how sure are you that Kilga is town?
-
Man, what is with people who are in terrible positions refusing to claim as of late?
Alright, fine. Zak, how sure are you that Kilga is town?
Roleclaiming gives Scum information that I don't want scum having~
I'm can't be 100% Certain. I'd park the likelyness of Kilga being town more in to the 80~90% range. The most I can tell you is that I strongly feel that he's being honest.
-
Given your shaky D1 post, I dunno if I should trust you, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut
...):
Now I'm confused on what I should do. Hey huhwhat, is it particularly important that whatever you wanted to say to me tomorrow over radio isn't said now, publically? And would you be able to do anything tonight that's particularly cool?
In any case, ##Unvote.
Bard is now my preferred lynch, since Kilga is apparently town and :huhwhatsituation:, mainly on a hope for third-party triggering Edible's test, although I'm not sure if we can get a Bard lynch, but I'll be here all day anyway!
##Vote:Bardiche
Also starting to wonder if maybe I should be giving a radio to Zak tonight. I could do one on Zak and one on Huhwhat if I really wanted to (Zak if you didn't see my claim maybe you should go read it (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583796.html#msg583796)), but I dunno if Zak would like that since huhwhat is a big suspect!
Also, Huhwhat said he knew who had the radio today if I remember right, and Shadoweh said who she was giving it to overnight in a message, so... *blinks*
Well I guess Huhwhat could possibly be the one who gave Hourai the info if Hourai had the quicktopic. But that's working off of info I don't have.
I would so be voting huhwhat if I didn't want to hear what he wants to tell me. But I'm so curious ;_;
-
Roleclaiming gives Scum information that I don't want scum having~
I find this logic holds less weight when role nonsense is occurring, but whatevs.
I'm can't be 100% Certain. I'd park the likelyness of Kilga being town more in to the 80~90% range. The most I can tell you is that I strongly feel that he's being honest.
And this puts me in a bit of a bind. My main issue with Kilga is that he mostly avoided interactions with Hourai and Schezo (and vice versa), which is usually a pretty big scum indicator. I'm not a huge fan of the huh what case, but I suppose it is significant that both Kilga and Bard are the major outliers of it. That leaves me with Bardiche, who I would think is, if not town, then at least likely unaffiliated with the scumteam. Probably the safest lynch, but the least likely of actually hitting scum. That combined with the fact that Kilga would rather himself be lynched than Bard doesn't help me either.
I'd be very upset if Kilga was a miller or something, but I guess he would've told us already. :(
-
Serela, how does Huh What's message correspond to whether he is scum or not? Is scum talking to you so important you'd rather not lynch them?
-
But what if he's town >:
At this point though, I'm starting to lean towards "If you want to say something, just say it in front of everyone and then we'll lynch you and know if it's true or not" :V
-
But Serela, what if I'm town? Clearly you should never lynch anyone! They could be town!
... you do realise the kind of argument you're making, right?
-
You haven't claimed a role that gives you information, though!
But yeah, especially considering that my radios might be being spied on from what we know, if huhwhat has something to say he can say it before we lynch him.
I know he's definitely not L-2 or anything, so
##Unvote ##Vote Huhwhat
-
My main issue with Kilga is that he mostly avoided interactions with Hourai and Schezo (and vice versa), which is usually a pretty big scum indicator.
Just my opinion, but I felt he was more towards focusing on individuals at a time rather than handling a crowd of people. I don't think Hourai and Schezo were the only people he didn't focus on.
Also, if Schezo and Bard were responsible for the deaths in Night 1, it is possible that Night 2 will go by without anyone dying.
And before I forget, since we're going to lynch either Kilga, Bard or huh what today.
##Unvote
Well with that whole thing with Kilga, I'm going to go with the fact he is town for now, so that leaves Bardiche and huh what, and I would like to see what huh what says before I place my vote.
-
Also, if Schezo and Bard were responsible for the deaths in Night 1, it is possible that Night 2 will go by without anyone dying.
The scumteam always has at least the option of preforming a nightkill on someone. Err, outside of a really weird setup.
-
Given your shaky D1 post, I dunno if I should trust you, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut
...):
Now I'm confused on what I should do. Hey huhwhat, is it particularly important that whatever you wanted to say to me tomorrow over radio isn't said now, publically? And would you be able to do anything tonight that's particularly cool?
Er, when did Huh What request your radio?
-
Just caught this:
[Zakeri has] NOTHING on the table except for his weird vote for Conqueror.
Actually, my weird vote was on Schezo.
Magical Mafia Divinor!
Kilgamayan (L-3): capt. h, huh what, Dormio,
huh what (L-2): Bardiche, Kilgamayan, PX, NeoSerela
Not Voting: Edible, Myself, Colt.
I don't think Bardiche is scum. This is mostly gut feeling based on the way he handled Capt.H's posting in the middle of the Vig crisis. It may also be influenced by Shadoweh's repeatedly linking him and Kilgamayan together though.
Huh what's posts at the beginning of day 2 don't give me a good feeling, considering they were against Shadoweh and based mostly on roledickery. I want to see what he has to say to Serela as well. For all I know, whatever this is is just a way to get NeoSerela to waffle over his vote on HW/move him over to Bard/kilga. especially since last I heard about him so far (Page 26 now), he had a one-shot tracker role which he used to find that Radio set B went to Schezo. (Post 655.)
The only reason I'm keeping my vote off HW is to prevent self-lynching.
-
Now I'm confused on what I should do. Hey huhwhat, is it particularly important that whatever you wanted to say to me tomorrow over radio isn't said now, publically? And would you be able to do anything tonight that's particularly cool?
I can't disclose it publically without making it useless, though I guess I will if I need to fullclaim to live to D3. It's pretty much related to the mechanics behind my role.
Zakeri saying "I think Kilga is probably town" is a little hard to buy given that there's no real reason to believe him beyond taking his word for it. <_< Doesn't particularly change my opinion, though I guess if people wanted Bard dead I would be willing to switch due to not me > me, but I still honestly don't buy Bard as scum due to the Hourai shenanigans.
-
One thing I want to say about Bardiche before I have to go.
Firstly, he defended my roleblocking of Shadoweh before he knew that I could give back Shadoweh her abilities whenever I wanted.
Then, when SHOKU! occurred, he was adamant that Shadoweh shouldn't get her gun back regardless.
-
I can't disclose it publically without making it useless, though I guess I will if I need to fullclaim to live to D3. It's pretty much related to the mechanics behind my role.
Zakeri saying "I think Kilga is probably town" is a little hard to buy given that there's no real reason to believe him beyond taking his word for it. <_< Doesn't particularly change my opinion, though I guess if people wanted Bard dead I would be willing to switch due to not me > me, but I still honestly don't buy Bard as scum due to the Hourai shenanigans.
I have to ask - Do you really think Schezo had any idea that Hourai was scum?
From what I've seen from him, he's broken the NeoSerela/Hourai tie to give Hourai the majority, but if he was bussing Hourai he did a really poor job of it by unvoting altogether rather than voting for Neo or sticking with Neo from the start. He may have known there was a traitor, but I can't see Schezo knowing Hourai was scum.
-
Bussing exists. Also, Schezo voted off of Hourai at the last moment, which lends credit to the theory that he knew Hourai to be a buddy.
-
To better answer you: whether or not it was pulled off badly is aside the point. It still reads like a failed bussing attempt due to the awkward jump off.
-
To better answer you: whether or not it was pulled off badly is aside the point. It still reads like a failed bussing attempt due to the awkward jump off.
But why bus Hourai when he could have confirmed NeoSerela? It doesn't make any sense to attack a known ally when you can spend an extra day and make town flip town instead.
-
Townie cred?
I don't know. You'd have to ask him or his scumbuddies. <_< I remember Kilga having a theory about this at the beginning of the day, so I suppose that might be worth reading.
It's also possible they wanted to save Serela for an actual lynch instead of clearing him. Who knows.
-
One thing I want to say about Bardiche before I have to go.
Firstly, he defended my roleblocking of Shadoweh before he knew that I could give back Shadoweh her abilities whenever I wanted.
Then, when SHOKU! occurred, he was adamant that Shadoweh shouldn't get her gun back regardless.
Shadoweh displayed earlier a total disregard for the opinions of Town and wanted (tried) to shoot me regardless. Can you blame me for not wanting to be shot? If she had to do it, do it at night, for chrissakes.
-
Shadoweh displayed earlier a total disregard for the opinions of Town and wanted (tried) to shoot me regardless. Can you blame me for not wanting to be shot? If she had to do it, do it at night, for chrissakes.
Er, yes, yes we can. We don't know your alliance yet.
Townie cred?
I don't know. You'd have to ask him or his scumbuddies. <_< I remember Kilga having a theory about this at the beginning of the day, so I suppose that might be worth reading.
It's also possible they wanted to save Serela for an actual lynch instead of clearing him. Who knows.
The simple answer would be that he didn't know. Bussing a traitor doesn't give town cred, since town doesn't know whether or not scum knew that he was a traitor.
If Kilga flips town, I think scum didn't know that Hourai was the traitor. If Kilga flips scum, then I don't think scum knew about Hourai, because then either you or Bard bussed an ally for no reason.
-
Derp, I keep getting mixed up.
If Kilga flips scum - scum knew Hourai was the traitor. Kilga flips town - scum didn't know Hourai was the traitor.
-
@HW: I would appreciate if you gave Post 771 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg586630.html#msg586630) a reread and response. One of the things I don't like about your attack and Defense against Kilgamayan was because you ignored Bardiche entirely.
-
har har you don't live a five-minute walk from a five guys 8)
Good this means I won't get FAT LIKE U
In fairness to myself in regards to Schezo, Bard and huh what said basically nothing about the guy pre-bucket list as well. >_>
-
A lot of his attacks are against my ED1, to which I honestly don't have much to say other than that it actually was a derp moment for me. I am to an extent an absent-minded/spacey person and I think my past play can attest to this, at least.
As for an actual response to him.
There is an interesting bit of manipulation here, where he strikes a semblance between Conqueror and PX's inquiries, states that if PX's inquiries are useless, so are Conqueror's. This question is of course silly because no one thinks their case is nonsensical.
Which is aggravating, because Conqueror was pretty much calling PX non-sensical for doing the same things Conqueror was doing. <_< The hypocrisy bugged me and I pointed it out, how is this particularly scummy again?
Hi, how's that vote on me going earlyDay1? And at the end of the post, he even declares my vote on Serela wasn't the "primary reason". Uuuh okay, you had other reasons to suspect me at that juncture?
It was more the way you went about it than the fact that you were actually on Serela. I suppose I did not actually explain that very well.
It's particularly interesting because just earlier he was decrying Shadoweh as scum. Now she's suddenly the counterwagon to scumConq. That he never lets up on Conq until after the reveal (and even then still dares suggest scumConq) is also a curious thing and I do not like it.
Uh, I don't see what's wrong with me reading Shadoweh as the potential counterwagon to scumConq? I believed Conqueror to be likely scum at the time, and naturally if an alternate wagon suddenly sprang up it was likely to be the counterwagon. This made me feel less confident in potentially voting Shadoweh. Do you really think I would have expected scum/scum wagons on D1?
As for why I didn't let up on Conqueror until after the reveal, I don't see how that makes me particularly worse than Kilga considering that he was on the Conqueror wagon all D1 as well. If you dislike the way I went about my pressure on Conqueror, you could at least specify it.
He declares Shadoweh scummy here, accusing her of bussing scumbuddyHourai and restating that the rest of D1 stuff also applies. But later everything is forgiven if Hourai wasn't known to scum. How does it matter?
My main point on Shadoweh was that she put effort into seeing Serela flipped over Hourai, and that fell apart if Hourai was not known to scum. The rest of the case implicated her but I would not have considered it any worse than what Colt and PX were doing. I don't think it was entirely unreasonable that I dropped it in favor of other cases.
That he drops the case in favour of voting Colt is even more sadfaze, because his Colt case drops to nothing but "Colt is a newbie". That he asserts Colt is a worse PX is amusing, given he asserts PX is scum but doesn't mention Colt much if at all until he votes Colt. Then suddenly Colt is PX2, except worse.
I mentioned Colt in the second paragraph of my first post on D2, and even mentioned him being PX2 there. Did you just skip it completely? <______<
I'm still reading Colt's waffling as newbscum and I dislike how you're seeming to interpret my case as me just calling him out for being a newb.
-
I'm not touching the point about knowing how Schezo received the radio since I still stick to my claim that I tracked the owner of Set B on night 1, though I do find it odd that you're assuming my knowledge that Shadoweh did not actually use a night action aside from passing on the radio was just a guess. I will fullclaim if it's necessary to avoid my lynch, but I would prefer to hold off on that if I can.
-
Bussing a traitor doesn't give town cred, since town doesn't know whether or not scum knew that he was a traitor.
... But if they knew Hourai is scum and were willing to bus him, that doesn't matter, because he's not a traitor in the role sense.
-
... But if they knew Hourai is scum and were willing to bus him, that doesn't matter, because he's not a traitor in the role sense.
I don't buy that scum would bus hourai. I don't believe they would actively target one of their own, and not only that but their player that blocks cop-checks and would have surely been checked the very next night, simply for the sake of town cred. Because had UK lived, I would bet that she would have checked Hourai, being the primary scum suspect after NeoSerela on day 1. Especially when it failed this badly to establish town cred due to our disagreement of whether scum knew Hourai was scum.
But if scum were bussing hourai, then our primary targets should be you and Bardiche anyway, since you two were both on the Hourai wagon.
So if scum didn't know they were bussing scum, the most likely scum would be you and bard. If scum were bussing scum, the most likely suspects would be you and bard.
I'd vote you right now, but that would put you at L-1.
-
Right, since I don't want to put Huh What at L-1 until later today...
##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche
Don't worry Bard, I'll take my vote off of you closer to the deadline. But I need to have my vote out so that we can at least lynch someone.
-
I honestly can't tell what you're trying to say very well, but...
Just because one scum attempted to bus Hourai doesn't mean all of them were. <_< What makes you think the entire scumteam was after him instead of just Schezo? Even if the scum team intended to have Hourai dead, that doesn't mean they'd send their entire team to vote against him. If a townie realized that scum was intending to bus Hourai, then they would be caught fairly easily as a result. I don't think that scum are as much of a hivemind as you seem to be implying.
-
(Also, you fail to take into account the possibility of scum already having a notable stance set up against another townie and therefore not able to switch to the Hourai wagon without looking like an obvbus. I believe this to be the case with Kilga's vote on Serela, at leats.)
-
I honestly can't tell what you're trying to say very well, but...
Just because one scum attempted to bus Hourai doesn't mean all of them were. <_< What makes you think the entire scumteam was after him instead of just Schezo? Even if the scum team intended to have Hourai dead, that doesn't mean they'd send their entire team to vote against him. If a townie realized that scum was intending to bus Hourai, then they would be caught fairly easily as a result. I don't think that scum are as much of a hivemind as you seem to be implying.
If scum knew Hourai was scum, and they actually wanted him bussed, then either you or Bard are far more likely to be scum than Kilga, who was on the opposite wagon.
It's not a matter of hive mindedness - either scum tried to bus scum, or scum didn't try to bus scum. By your own theory, my top pick for scum team would be someone who did try to bus scum over someone who didn't.
Furthermore, you are the one that looks best by the scum bussing theory. Hourai only attacked you, and didn't even mention Kilga or Bard. You are the one that stood to gain the most in bussing Hourai, because then you could argue that Hourai tried to start a train on you day one.
-
... But Hourai never actually voted me. <_< How was he trying to start a train on me again?
Also, it's not that simple. It is entirely possible for some scum to be on a scum wagon while others are on a townie wagon, and I'm not sure why the notion that one scum was on a scum wagon means that the entire wagon must have been a bus attempt. See: what I already said about Kilga, which you seem to have ignored.
-
... But Hourai never actually voted me. <_< How was he trying to start a train on me again?
Also, it's not that simple. It is entirely possible for some scum to be on a scum wagon while others are on a townie wagon, and I'm not sure why the notion that one scum was on a scum wagon means that the entire wagon must have been a bus attempt. See: what I already said about Kilga, which you seem to have ignored.
Sorry, but your version of what happened day one doesn't really make any sense to me. The reason I'm going after you is because I think what you're doing is scummy, trying to force an interpretation of day one that doesn't seem to flow logically. I think you're saying scum tried to bus a known scum buddy. I'm saying that that explanation doesn't work here, and especially doesn't work as an attack on Kilga. Kilga could have always used the reason I brought up if he wanted to bus Hourai - Hourai claimed bulletproof and didn't want to be confirmed town. Once Hourai roleclaimed, anyone could justify his train. Furthermore, Schezo's attempt at "bussing" was simply too bad to be called "bussing".
If you continue pushing your current interpretation of scum actions, I am going to have to disagree. It's a pity, because you really were the most insightful player here, but I don't think town would continue with that version of events.
-
Honestly? I can't really tell what you're trying to get at. I'm not trying to say the entire scumteam tried to bus a known scum buddy. I said it's a possibility scum tried to bus Hourai, but that does not make it impossible for scum to be off of him, and I'm not sure how I'm "scum pushing an interpretation of the day that doesn't flow logically" for saying this. The only thing I said for sure is that Schezo was scum and attempted to bus Hourai, because we know for a fact that's what actually happened thanks to the flips. It's even possible that Schezo was the only scum voting Hourai, if we want to go there. Also, what you said about Schezo borders on defending him over derp. I'm not sure where the notion that Schezo is beyond making mistakes comes from, because he most certainly isn't.
...After thinking it over, it doesn't seem like I'm going to be able to convince anyone at this point, so I'm just going to go ahead and fullclaim. <_< There's no point in hiding information that only helps town if I survive when it seems unlikely that I will survive anyway. I am a Town Hired Agent, and my night actions work on a point system. I start with 3 of these points, but gain 1 extra if I go through an entire day without gaining any votes. (I was intending to lurk throughout D1 to take advantage of this, but naturally Serela had to muck it up with the first post in the game.) Alongside this, I was also informed of the existance of the radios before the game began, though not necessarily the mechanics behind them. My abilities are as follows:
- A 3-point Watcher that can only target Set A or Set B. When used, I learn of who holds the set I targeted as well as anybody who targeted them that night. I also eavesdrop on any messages sent over both radios that night.
- A 2-point Tracker that can only target Set A or Set B. When used, I learn of who the owner of the set I targeted used their night action on that night, if any. I also eavesdrop on any messages they receive that night.
- A 1-point Limited Tracker that can be used on any player. When used, I learn whether or not they left their house.
- A 1-point Limited Watcher that can be used on any player. When used, I learn whether or not somebody targeted them.
I used my 2-point Tracker on Set B during Night 1, since I knew Set B's owner to be Shadoweh and suspected her from her late D1 actions with Hourai. The watcher didn't seem worth the cost at all since I didn't feel either radio holder was a likely N1 target. I chose not to go for a limited tracker/watcher due to their general uselessness and also because I felt Hourai's flip would allow me to get through D2 without a vote for a second Tracker shot (but that unfortunately did not work out very well).
Beyond everything that I have already mentioned, I have one additional ability: if I am one of the two radio holders, I automatically bodyguard the other holder every night. This is why I asked Serela to send me a radio set; I figured that Schezo was an obvious kill for the day and that I would probably end up radio masons with Serela since he would have both of the radios back. Since Serela was a likely kill target for scum at the time, me bodyguarding him would not only result in scum probably killing me and helping weed out the real scum on Edible's list, but it would also help an obvtown live on to D3.
Unfortunately, my role also has a slight downside. Since I am a secret agent, I only flip as "Town Hired Agent", and my powers are not revealed by the mod following my flip. Not sure how he'll go about doing that, I was only told that he would not say what I can do (I don't know whether or not he only gives my role name or actually alludes to my powers not being revealed by the flip). Not that this part of my role really matters at this point, seeing as I just explained everything anyway. :V
Okay, I... think I covered everything. If I live to N2 and Kilga flips town, I will probably use my limited tracker on Edible. Otherwise, I really have no idea at this point and will consider saving it.
-
... Didn't capt. h unvote?
Though, come to think of it, I seem to recall noticing something like this happen before. @_@ Going to go back and check.
-
No wait, you have him on Bardiche too.
I am confused.
-
Beyond everything that I have already mentioned, I have one additional ability: if I am one of the two radio holders, I automatically bodyguard the other holder every night. This is why I asked Serela to send me a radio set; I figured that Schezo was an obvious kill for the day and that I would probably end up radio masons with Serela since he would have both of the radios back. Since Serela was a likely kill target for scum at the time, me bodyguarding him would not only result in scum probably killing me and helping weed out the real scum on Edible's list, but it would also help an obvtown live on to D3.
Unfortunately, my role also has a slight downside. Since I am a secret agent, I only flip as "Town Hired Agent", and my powers are not revealed by the mod following my flip. Not sure how he'll go about doing that, I was only told that he would not say what I can do (I don't know whether or not he only gives my role name or actually alludes to my powers not being revealed by the flip). Not that this part of my role really matters at this point, seeing as I just explained everything anyway. :V
Okay, I... think I covered everything. If I live to N2 and Kilga flips town, I will probably use my limited tracker on Edible. Otherwise, I really have no idea at this point and will consider saving it.
That's interesting. It confirms a few things.
At the least in proves that there are roles that are not fully revealed on the flip. Since many of our arguments in favor of Hourai being known to scum assume that roles are fully revealed, knowing there exists a role that isn't means that there could be more than one. You, of anyone, had the ability to realize this.
@mod You have me voting twice.
-
Not revealing anything about the role isn't the same as only revealing half of it, though. <_<
-
Also, it should be noted that I actually did buy Hourai being a traitor at first because of my role after Shadoweh gave a fair argument for it (I was actually one of the first to do so, if you look back). The main reason I changed my mind was because of Schezo's awkward interactions with Hourai following his flip (not to mention that Hourai being ordinary scum seems to be the generally accepted theory now).
-
Also, it should be noted that I actually did buy Hourai being a traitor at first because of my role after Shadoweh gave a fair argument for it (I was actually one of the first to do so, if you look back). The main reason I changed my mind was because of Schezo's awkward interactions with Hourai following his flip (not to mention that Hourai being ordinary scum seems to be the generally accepted theory now).
That's mostly because Shadoweh is dead.
Out of curiosity, do you know who has that second radio now that Schezo is dead?
-
I admit I am a bit leery on believing in another role that knows about the radios (assuming that Serela is town and therefore scum had a listener radio as well). The claim is a bit incongruous with your initial stances on non-full flips as well, as Cap pointed out.
So far, Serp has given all roles full flips. If Hourai has more to his role, then why did Serp not mention it during the flip? The flip implies that "Traitor" was Hourai's alignment, not role, and the red coloring implies that his alignment is not unique from scum (unless the actual scum flip a different color, which would be a little odd, all things considered).
We know for a fact that Hourai was not the radio spy, unless Serp was being a bastard and didn't give Hourai a full flip. (If this is the case, then he probably really is a traitor as well)
It's true that a total non-reveal and a partial non-reveal are not the same thing, but it is still surprising in retrospect that you'd believe so firmly in all-or-nothing in regards to flip info that you would question the idea of a partial reveal this strongly.
-
(And yes, that statement is made with the fact that you eventually agreed with Shadoweh on the issue in mind.)
-
VOTECOUNT - Go For 45 Tomorrow Revised Edition
huh what (4): Bardiche, Kilgamayan, PX, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (2): huh what, Dormio, capt. h, NeoSerela, Edible
Bardiche (1): capt. h, NeoSerela, Dormio
PX (0): Colt, Dormio, capt. h
Dormio (0): capt. h
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: Colt, Edible, Zakeri
With 10 votes in play, 6 are required to lynch. 2 hours 15 minutes remain in the day.
-
Out of curiosity, do you know who has that second radio now that Schezo is dead?
No I do not, but I would assume that Serela does considering that he claimed to regain Set A following UK's death.
I'm not sure why you would assume I would know who currently has it, seeing as the only reason I knew Schezo had Set B today was by tracking him.
-
Tracking Shadoweh, not Schezo. Derp. <_<
-
@ Kilga: The mention of the possibility of Hourai being a radio spy and failing to receive a whole flip actually originated from my knowledge of my role, I don't think I would have considered the possibility otherwise. Still, I was generally expectant that he received a full flip because of how the Traitor aspect seemed to be tied closer to his alignment than his role.
I also admit I was been initially resistant to Shadoweh's proposition of Hourai being a traitor because she was my top pick for scum at the time and said proposition would have made her look better. It seemed like a form of defense to me.
-
You can listen in on radios? That sounds like an admission of "I am the scum radio spy".
-
You can listen in on radios? That sounds like an admission of "I am the scum radio spy".
You can nightkill? That sounds like an admission of "I am a mafia goon."
-
@ Bard: Only during the night phase, and only if I use specific actions. I have no way to tell what happens over the radios during the day.
-
Not the same thing. Jerk.
I'm saying I don't buy the claim.
-
He's essentially claiming half-tracker half-bodyguard in a game where there was, until recently, a scum hitman. I think it checks out.
-
He's essentially claiming half-tracker half-bodyguard in a game where there was, until recently, a scum hitman. I think it checks out.
Scum hitman is actually a relatively standard mafia role. But I think I buy the claim.
I'm not sure what to think of our vanilla townie. It sounds like Schezo's claim. How many vanilla townies do you think are in this game?
-
Edible: If you believe my claim checks out, then who would your vote be on at the moment? It should be noted that we only have an hour and a half left in the day, so those who haven't made a choice should probably do so.
-
Okay. Something puzzling is:
huh what claims to have tracked Shadoweh Night 1. He therefore knew that she had targeted Schezo. Now, two important quotes to highlight:
- A 2-point Tracker that can only target Set A or Set B. When used, I learn of who the owner of the set I targeted used their night action on that night, if any. I also eavesdrop on any messages they receive that night.
Yes, I got rid of the radio last night like I said I would.
I assume the second highlight refers to here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583980.html#msg583980), but whatever the case, Shadoweh expected huh what to be aware of the fact that she said she would get rid of the radio.
Now, huh what's claim is that he would know who the owner of the set he targeted used their night action on. Not just to whom they gave the radio. Clearly he did not see Shadoweh target anyone other than Schezo, as evidenced in her claim and flip if nowhere else. Why, then, did huh what lead with a vote on Shadoweh, instead of waiting to see what Schezo could produce? If Schezo comes out and says "I don't have the radio" then Shadoweh has some explaining to do, but if Schezo comes out and says "yeah I have the radio" then huh what knows Shadoweh did nothing last night other than hand the radio off, and the case against her has to be modified to compensate for this because suddenly her likeliness of being scum just dropped substantially.
Now obviously it would be rather bullish to just up and say HEY SCHEZO DID YOU GET A RADIO but given Day 2 dawned and Schezo was still alive after having a radio-owner target them and no one else after at least suggesting she was getting rid of the radio should have been pause for thought about how strong the case against her really was. And given huh what had no qualms about coming out and asking Shadoweh if she passed the radio after the initial vote, there was at least one rolefish roadblock that was not present.
Basically, I am wondering why you would track a radio owner who suggested they would be getting rid of the radio, see them target an individual that survived to Day 2 and no one else, and open Day 2 with a vote on her.
-
I considered that, but scum roles don't necessarily have to manifest themselves in the form of night actions. With a flipped copvig and also evidence towards a second potential killing role, it seemed entirely possible that she was something passive like a Godfather, and gf!Shadoweh would likely have had more to gain from not going on the N1 Kill. (Unless sending the radio would have removed her protection. I'm not sure.)
Plus, there are other scum roles that aren't based in the nightphase. A scum dayvig would be a good example. I honestly don't think her night action dropped her chances of being scum so significantly that I would have ignored my case on her at the beginning of the day.
-
I'm don't really buy into HW's role. There are other ways for certain people to know that Schezo had received a Radio in the night. It also doesn't really make sense for HW or anyone to spend the first half of the day targeting someone who he himself claims did absolutely nothing suspicious over the night phase.
Cut: Yeah, I'm not really going to be convinced by anything short of mod confirmation.
##Vote: Huh what
-
Edit: L-1
-
Since we're very near the end of the day, I need to discuss a different matter for a moment before anyone hammers Edible.
NeoSerela can't give anyone radio B because I have radio B. I was wondering why she didn't mention it because while I did send messages with it anonymously, she should have mentioned that she was not going to be able to give it out tonight.
-
Pretty sure Edible can't be hammered. :V
FWIW, I believe capt. h's claim that he has Set B now. It seems in line with his questioning of me earlier.
-
The menchanics of the radio seem to give it to the player that watched the dead player the most closerly, at least in regards to scum kills. Since Schezo was my day 1 first vote and I was always a bit leery of him, I received the radio upon his death.
-
Wait, really? I don't recall Serela watching UK very often on D1.
Serela, if you're around, can you confirm this? Assuming that you know the full radio mechanics.
-
Edible: If you believe my claim checks out, then who would your vote be on at the moment? It should be noted that we only have an hour and a half left in the day, so those who haven't made a choice should probably do so.
It should be on Kilg-
Oh right I unvoted.
##vote Kilgamayan
I think huh what is full of truthiness, and Zakeri's last-minute appearance to save Kilga doesn't help me think he's the least scum of the three. Sorry Kilga.
Since we're very near the end of the day, I need to discuss a different matter for a moment before anyone hammers Edible.
plz dun hamer me :(
The menchanics of the radio seem to give it to the player that watched the dead player the most closerly, at least in regards to scum kills. Since Schezo was my day 1 first vote and I was always a bit leery of him, I received the radio upon his death.
I have absolutely no idea what this means.
-
Radios, how do they work?
Seriously, why are we wasting time on them? They don't even seem to do anything besides leak information to scum.
-
I paid the most attention to Schezo, so I got his radio when he died. I'm not sure about NKs.
##unvote
##vote Kilgamayan
Radios, how do they work?
Seriously, why are we wasting time on them? They don't even seem to do anything besides leak information to scum.
Personally, I think they would make great last words.
If I die tonight, I plan on everyone knowing exactly what I was thinking the moment I died.
-
I paid the most attention to Schezo, so I got his radio when he died. I'm not sure about NKs.
##unvote
##vote Kilgamayan
... wtf
Last I checked, your case was on HW. What gives?
-
VOTECOUNT
huh what (5): Bardiche, Kilgamayan, PX, NeoSerela, Zakeri
Kilgamayan (4): huh what, Dormio, Edible, capt. h, NeoSerela
Bardiche (0): capt. h, NeoSerela, Dormio
PX (0): Colt, Dormio, capt. h
Dormio (0): capt. h
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: Colt
With 10 votes in play, 6 are required to lynch. 50 minutes left.
-
It might be worth mentioning that not only did I not get Schezo's radio back when he died, but I recieved a message from someone. It's not a terribly interesting message (Hi, dunno if I feel safe saying who I am, I'm town but cannot confirm this, do you want me to pass this to someone else; this is a short version of the message) and definitely sounds like it totally wasn't some leftover thing from Schezo before he died (and he showed massive distaste to using the radio at all, anyway.)
I should probably also mention that I knew Schezo probably had the radio today, as Shadoweh blatantly stated in a radio message that she'd give it to him.
No idea who has it now but if someone wants the radio to tell me anything (Or if huhwhat isn't the lynch), I can ask the person to give it to you, or give you the set I have.
Huhwhat's claim is believable. Unless she's scum that gains some advantage over the other person holding a radio when they have one, I trust it. Anyway, I'm completely willing to lynch Kilga and/or Bard before huhwhat.
##Unvote why does it feel like I'm doing this every other post
...are we lynching Bard or Kilga ???
Also, Kilgapost:Well, Shadoweh could be saying that since I know she said it, or something.
OH GOD 9 NINJAS.
Capt.h, please pass your radio to huhwhat. I believe you can keep sending me messages during the night even if you pass it. Looks like we're lynching Kilga (or huhwhat), so
##Vote Kilgamaya[n/b]
-
It's not the first time he's ignored a good case that he made for the sake of voting Kilgamayan.
-
... wtf
Last I checked, your case was on HW. What gives?
I believed his roleclaim.
Truth be told, like Shadoweh noted, Hourai's interactions with him make him seem the least scummy. I think Hourai didn't mention his scum buddies except maybe in passing (like Schezo), and neither Kilga nor Bard came up once.
I still think the radios are secure, and that Hourai could spy on them after all.
@ Neo - That's not a good idea. You should send radio A to huh what, and I should send radio B to you so that you both get my night message.
-
Still around and expect to be around on and off until deadline, when I have a fantasy baseball draft. Not sure there's really much else to say at this point, outside of saying that if you have something about me you can share, Zak, now would be a great time and that I'd be most appreciative.
My only real final thoughts should I be lynched is that Edible is not to be completely trusted. If another person on that list gets lynched tomorrow and flips town there had better be some serious looks in his direction. He is not confirmed town by any means.
-
Oh yeah.
Edible, stop playing the role game, and start playing the actual game. huh what is far from the towniness that you seem to think he is based purely on role silliness.
-
capt.h:I can't pass it until nighttime, so huhwhat won't get your message anyway.
And I can't help but find myself wondering if you're trying to trick me into not getting huhwhat's protection so that you can NK me, without having huhwhat able to just go "HEY I NEVER GOT THE RADIO SO CAPT.H IS SCUM".
Capt.h strikes me as very odd with his huge feelings of trying-too-hard-ness, switching his vote every time someone does something he sees as bad, and his consistent presenting of things that aren't actually bad (or sometimes even make sense at all) with a good enough wording and much confidence that actually makes it seem kind of convincing.
This is stuff that makes sense as "Oh capt.h is just a newbie trying to do well and thinking that he is", but... it just seems really off. And that last request he just make really just seems odd, especially for my stated reasoning on how scum could safely off me, the obvtown, if I did it.
Also oops I messsed up my kilga vote :V Just in case it didn't count, ##Vote Kilgamayan
-
And I can't help but find myself wondering if you're trying to trick me into not getting huhwhat's protection so that you can NK me, without having huhwhat able to just go "HEY I NEVER GOT THE RADIO SO CAPT.H IS SCUM".
To elaborate on this, I am not passing my radio, and huhwhat better as hell get yours, capt.h.
-
Look, I asked the mod, I can pass a radio and send a message at the same time. That means in the morning, both you and Huh What should be able to get my message anyway. Worst case scenario is that only you get my message.
The reason I'm asking for a double pass is that I don't actually trust you after you neglected to mention that you didn't have radio B. I want two people to have anything I send over the radio.
-
I'm playing my role game, Kilga. You're the scummiest on my list of three potential zombies. Don't offer me advice in one hand and throw dirt on me with the other, thanks.
I'd settle for a Bard lynch instead of a you lynch, but I think that's terribly unlikely given the time left and would be based solely on Shadoweh's flip. I just don't buy the case against huh what. I haven't bought it all day, I buy it less after his roleclaim, and I'm not about to start now.
@Serela: capt.h seems like he's playing a different game from the rest of us.
-
@Serela: capt.h seems like he's playing a different game from the rest of us.
Being an Agathat Christie fanatic does horrible thing to your ability to play Mafia.
-
Anyway Neo, I'll pass it to huh what.
-
Hey, I would be remiss if I didn't do my best to get all my thoughts on the table before I died. I say these things because they're true; if you're town, you're going to go into tomorrow with a choice between two people that were on the Hourai wagon, and you're going to need to sit down and think about which is scummier, which you're not going to accomplish by following some role-based flowchart.
Don't get frustrated by those thoughts, they aren't personal.
-
No, capt.h, huhwhat will not get your messages from tonight no matter what order we pass them in. I am pretty damn sure of this. It's more unsettling to me that you keep insisting on this.
The way I see it, worst case scenario is you're scum, and I get offed doing your suggestion.
Anyway, now I'm actually okay with doing it if you really want to simply because you can't not pass it to me and then kill me without being incriminated.
But unless you make a post by day end stating that you're going to do it and pass me your radio, I'll work under the assumption you're still passing it to huhwhat.
God this is getting confusing.
-
Hey, I would be remiss if I didn't do my best to get all my thoughts on the table before I died. I say these things because they're true; if you're town, you're going to go into tomorrow with a choice between two people that were on the Hourai wagon, and you're going to need to sit down and think about which is scummier, which you're not going to accomplish by following some role-based flowchart.
Don't get frustrated by those thoughts, they aren't personal.
Fair enough. That is, unless you flip scum, in which case I will do a little dance and maybe eat some cake.
-
Serela/capt. h interactions are confusing me. If I survive and wake up with a radio tomorrow, who should I assume my radiobuddy is? @_@
(Also, it should be noted that Kilga is at L-1 now, if nobody pointed that out.)
-
No, capt.h, huhwhat will not get your messages from tonight no matter what order we pass them in. I am pretty damn sure of this. It's more unsettling to me that you keep insisting on this.
The way I see it, worst case scenario is you're scum, and I get offed doing your suggestion.
Anyway, now I'm actually okay with doing it if you really want to simply because you can't not pass it to me and then kill me without being incriminated.
But unless you make a post by day end stating that you're going to do it and pass me your radio, I'll work under the assumption you're still passing it to huhwhat.
God this is getting confusing.
I'm passing the radio to Huh What.
However, if we find the third scum today, you should consider passing your radio on a random night before the end of the game. This will use up your night action, and make you 100% confirmed townie. In fact, we should consider passing the radios every night. It will use up both players night actions, so once a scum receives the radio, he will not be able to kill on the night he passes it.
-
Fair enough. That is, unless you flip scum, in which case I will do a little dance and maybe eat some cake.
But of course. Just sayin', is all, since, again, would be remiss and all that.
-
Capt.H's idea actually makes sense.
And there's less then 20 minutes left now. I'm worried about a no lynch happening. Kilga, would you vote yourself to prevent a no lynch? :V/>:
-
Capt.H's idea actually makes sense.
And there's less then 20 minutes left now. I'm worried about a no lynch happening. Kilga, would you vote yourself to prevent a no lynch? :V/>:
Pretty please?
-
At this point, I'm still convinced Scum is either Huh what, or Edible.
It's sad no one is willing to listen to me, but I guess I shot myself in the foot by not responding sooner.
-
At this point, I'm still convinced Scum is either Huh what, or Edible.
It's sad no one is willing to listen to me, but I guess I shot myself in the foot by not responding sooner.
You should have thought of that when you had all day today to tell us why you thought Kilga was town.
If you're town, you did us a disservice by not finding a replacement when Serp gave you the chance. If we hadn't found scum earlier today and gotten an extension you would be modkilled by now. Why should I trust a single word you say?
-
I'm afraid I have to agree with Edible on this.
-
You should have thought of that when you had all day today to tell us why you thought Kilga was town.
If you're town, you did us a disservice by not finding a replacement when Serp gave you the chance. If we hadn't found scum earlier today and gotten an extension you would be modkilled by now. Why should I trust a single word you say?
Actually, I think the only reason he wasn't modkilled is because he is scum.
-
VOTECOUNT
Kilgamayan (5): huh what, Dormio, Edible, capt. h, NeoSerela (L-1)
huh what (4): Bardiche, Kilgamayan, PX, Zakeri, NeoSerela (L-2)
Bardiche (0): capt. h, NeoSerela, Dormio
PX (0): Colt, Dormio, capt. h
Dormio (0): capt. h
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: Colt
With 10 votes in play, 6 are required to lynch. 10 minutes left.
-
At this point, I'm still convinced Scum is either Huh what, or Edible.
It's sad no one is willing to listen to me, but I guess I shot myself in the foot by not responding sooner.
Please vote for Kilgamayan, if only to prevent a no-lynch.
-
For what it's worth, Dormio would be my most likely pick for scum #4 (assuming 4 scum, which seems a safe bet in 16-player role madness). He got a little bit better today but that Serela vote yesterday is still really bad.
-
Do I really need to chop my balls off and vote huh what at this juncture just to secure a damn lynch? Jeez.
-
Well, I know I sure as hell am not voting for me.
I wasn't even going to address the suggestion but I get the feeling Cap was being semi-serious when he endorsed it. <_<
-
We've got like 5 minutes here. If no one votes Kilga in the next few minutes, fine, I'll vote Huhwhat with Edible just to ensure we lynch someone.
-
Agreed. But then what should I do with my radio?
-
I'm here and find 2 more pages. ;_;
-
PX, hammer Kilga so we can get a lynch (preferably one that isn't me).
-
Vote Kilgamayan now, PX.
-
Oh god yes PX VOTE KILGA RIGHT FUCKING NOW.
-
Three minutes.
-
At 1 minute, I'm chanign my vote.
-
His blood is on your hands, you bastards
##Unvote
##Vote: Kilga
-
Lame.
-
HAMMER BE SILENT
-
END OF DAY TWO
Kilgamayan (6): huh what, Dormio, Edible, capt. h, NeoSerela, PX LYNCH
huh what (3): Bardiche, Kilgamayan, Zakeri, PX, NeoSerela
Bardiche (0): capt. h, NeoSerela, Dormio
PX (0): Colt, Dormio, capt. h
Dormio (0): capt. h
Colt (0): huh what
Not Voting: Colt
Kilgamayan was lynched! He was Vanilla Townie! That's all I have time to write because I want to start Day Three right on the hour!
Send in your night actions. You have 24 hours.
-
START OF DAY THREE
Colt, Town Bodyguard, with the ability to take a hit for his protected target and survive until the next evening, was killed during the night!
It is now Day Three! The town is in LyLo! The deadline for today is in five days, 120 hours!
-
...we got two scum and it's a 16 player game, yet we're STILL in LyLo in D3? ;_;
Well then again both scum catches sacrificed a townie.
...suddenly the choice between Huhwhat, Bardiche, and Edible is so much harder >:
-
Before I consider attacking Bardiche, I would like to know why the hell Edible left his house last night.
More on this eventually, I'm going to be short on time for a while. In light of Colt's flip, I would like to note that my death is not delayed if I protect anybody.
-
Great, another long-ass day. Just what the doctor ordered.
I should note that it's probably psuedo-LYLO, and I imagine Bard is probably a serial killer and is required to shoot scum every night.
A note - I may have misled town a bit yesterday. My role allows multiple tests; I alluded to only one and didn't exactly scumhunt to the best of my ability to avoid a nightkill.
Sadly, the results of my check are less useful than yesterday.
Bardiche, Zakeri, Dormio, PX, Colt - Of these five, 1 or less is scum. Colt flipped town, so that's three potential town clears and either one scum or no scum.
That leaves the alignments of huh what, Serela, capt.h and myself ambiguous.
@huh what - the above should answer your question.
-
Given the past games I've read here, I'm not exactly sure I believe you. <_<
I will think this over more and probably compare you/Bard when I get the chance. Which might not be for a while, but we do at least have more time than usual.
-
...we got two scum and it's a 16 player game, yet we're STILL in LyLo in D3? ;_;
Well then again both scum catches sacrificed a townie.
...suddenly the choice between Huhwhat, Bardiche, and Edible is so much harder >:
Picking between Edible, Huh What, and Bard can range from one to two scum. Either Edible is the only scum, Huh What's the only one, Bard's alone, or huh what and Bard are together.
Picking between the other five of us can give us between one and two scum also. We know there's at least one scum off the list if we trust Edible, two is quite likely even if Edible is fully trustworthy, and three if we don't trust Edible at all.
I think we should consider options both on and off the list at this point.
@huh What - if Dormio uses his ability on NeoSerela, will it redirect to you because of bodyguard? We could then test it by sending radio A a message and seeing if NeoSerela gets the message on her receiver 24 hours from now. If she gets the message on both the radio and the receiver, it would confirm your ability.
-
capt. h: Does Dormio have the ability to nightkill? Otherwise, probably not.
-
Holy jesus capt.h is wordy at night. It's bigger then any single post that's been made this game, I think.
It's really hard to explain exactly WHY the stuff makes me think he's town as you people can't see it, but it makes sense, has many original points, and good ideas in it.
Also, how many people are alive? Serp didn't say. Checked first post, 8 (5 to lynch). Even if there was an extra kill from a vig or something, that wouldn't make it LyLo with 2 scum left. There would have to either be TWO extra kills, or a third party or something, or... IDK. Whatever. It irks me. I want to believe there isn't 3 scum left still.
huhwhatninja:Okay, Edible left his house? Ei-oh Edible ninja.
Edible's claim makes perfect sense. It's also genius if he's actually scum. I'd like to believe he's still town.
Okay, Bard/Zak/Dormio/PX, 1 or less is zombie. Bard/Huhwhat, 1 or more is zombie. If Bard is zombie, that clears Zak Dormio and PX and pretty much Edible, and I know I'm town plus last time I checked other people thought I was too, so that would REALLY narrow things down.
This is if we trust Edible. Frownieface.
Hey Bard, can you claaaaaaim, it's LyLo afterall
-
Great, another long-ass day. Just what the doctor ordered.
I should note that it's probably psuedo-LYLO, and I imagine Bard is probably a serial killer and is required to shoot scum every night.
A note - I may have misled town a bit yesterday. My role allows multiple tests; I alluded to only one and didn't exactly scumhunt to the best of my ability to avoid a nightkill.
Sadly, the results of my check are less useful than yesterday.
Bardiche, Zakeri, Dormio, PX, Colt - Of these five, 1 or less is scum. Colt flipped town, so that's three potential town clears and either one scum or no scum.
That leaves the alignments of huh what, Serela, capt.h and myself ambiguous.
@huh what - the above should answer your question.
Lets see - Of Huh what and Bard, (if we believe Edible), one or more is scum. Of Bard, Zak, Dormio, and PX, one or less is scum. I'm town (you don't have to believe me, I'm mostly thinking aloud), and NeoSerela would have to be really good scum or town.
To hit three scum, Edible, Huh What, and one non-Bard player from the second test would have to be scum.
Thus, logic tells me that by Edible logic, Edible is scum. Either that, or we have a third party or some really good scum in our game.
-
With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to hammer.
-
With two scum, there is a possibility oh 3 kills tonight, apparently. :\
Anyways
##Vote: Huh What
DIE MONSTER! I MUST AVENGE MY BRETHREN VANILLAS!
-
Hmm. I hadn't gotten around to matching the list up against the living player list yet.
I know myself to be town and believe capt.h to be town, so Huhwhat and a non-bard-person-on-2nd-list have to be scum in order to hit 2 scum, if Edible isn't lying. And there would have to be a way for two extra people to die in addition to today's Lynch and Nightkill so that it could be Pseudo-LyLo (It's not true lylo unless there are 3 scum left which would be what).
I'm just going to assume Bard can kill again by D4 and that someone else has a power that causes a death, because the alternative would be 5 scum in the setup or probably-dumb role shenanigans. Or I'm being dumb myself and overlooking something.
Anyway, this boils down to Huhwhat and/or Edible is scum. This matches up with capt.h's conclusion fairly well except he's assuming there are 3 scum, which I find less likely then 2 scum and role shenanigans (via death-causing roles or otherwise), but whatever.
-
Bardiche, Zakeri, Dormio, PX, Colt - Of these five, 1 or less is scum. Colt flipped town, so that's three potential town clears and either one scum or no scum.
For the sake of clarification, I should fix this to replace scum with "zombie" and town with "not zombie".
-
Hmm. I hadn't gotten around to matching the list up against the living player list yet.
I know myself to be town and believe capt.h to be town, so Huhwhat and a non-bard-person-on-2nd-list have to be scum in order to hit 2 scum, if Edible isn't lying. And there would have to be a way for two extra people to die in addition to today's Lynch and Nightkill so that it could be Pseudo-LyLo (It's not true lylo unless there are 3 scum left which would be what).
I'm just going to assume Bard can kill again by D4 and that someone else has a power that causes a death, because the alternative would be 5 scum in the setup or probably-dumb role shenanigans. Or I'm being dumb myself and overlooking something.
Anyway, this boils down to Huhwhat and/or Edible is scum. This matches up with capt.h's conclusion fairly well except he's assuming there are 3 scum, which I find less likely then 2 scum and role shenanigans (via death-causing roles or otherwise), but whatever.
I'm not sure we would be in Lylo if it were role shenanigans.
Even if scum had an extra kill stashed away and 2 members, we would only be down to five members tomorrow, and we would have three town and two scum. We wouldn't be in Lylo.
There's probably either three scum or a third party.
-
capt.h:This is why I said two kills :D
Also, if there is 2 scum and a third party, but not 2 extra kills, we still aren't even in Pseudo-Lylo. Yes, it would be very possible for a town win to become impossible, but the game would not end as decision between whether scum or third-party wins would still be there.
Saying role shenanigans allows for greater ranges of silliness then just killing powers, anyway. For example, suicide powers and weird win conditions.
If there IS three scum though, then I'm pretty positive Edible is one of them and is lying. But I'm kind of hoping there ISN'T three scum.
-
From my point of view, There's still a chance for three scum with Edible being town. The three scum would be Huh what, Bardiche, and Capt.H. I don't know what H told Serela last night to make him believe in him, but that sudden turn from HW to Kilgamayan yesterday really bugs me.
Also, Bardiche, since we're in Lylo, I would you like to tell us more about what your Vig can and Can't do? There's still a lot of ambiguity surrounding whether or not your Vig kill even exists.
-
I'm not sure if quoting the wall that capt.h radio'd overnight would break Rule 8 or whichever rule it was or not.
But I think capt.h posting it himself is okay since it's a message HE sent, afterall. I think Shadoweh did that last game, too.
It makes me think he's town strongly enough, at least.
-
VOTECOUNT - drunbk mod votescounts edition
huh what (1): PX
With 8 votes in play, 5 are required to lynch. 119 hours remaining.
Not voting: Bardiche, capt. h, Dormio, huh what, Edible, NeoSerela, Zakeri
To clarify, quoting messages from the mod is illegal, while quoting messages you've sent to the mod is legal.
-
Sadly, the results of my check are less useful than yesterday.
Bardiche, Zakeri, Dormio, PX, Colt - Of these five, 1 or less is scum. Colt flipped town, so that's three potential town clears and either one scum or no scum.
That leaves the alignments of huh what, Serela, capt.h and myself ambiguous.
If you cross this with the previous day's check, where out of huh what and Bardiche one or both of them has to be a zombie, and how Colt is town.
That leaves either Bardiche as scum or clears all of us.
And is it just me or does multiple masschecks seem OP, seeing as you could confirm most of the players in the game in around 3 nights?
Although I want to go after PX, provided Edible's tests are accurate/exist, Bardiche seems to be a much better option.
Okay, role speculation post thing out of the way, going to try to make a proper post before my next lecture starts.
-
Here's my radio message, with the link to the song I forget NeoSerela.
I thought for sure I would be next, so I spent a few hours making sure you knew everything I had to say. I'm surprised that Colt of all people was the NK.
___________________________________________________________
Scum interpretations
My opinions on the Kilga flip ? Scum is trying to convince us that they knew Hourai was scum. I doubt it. Schezo?s exchange with Hourai seemed to make it clear that Schezo had no idea what Hourai?s ability was. If either Huh What or Bard knew he was scum, then they were bussing him. But so far, both Huh What and Schezo have tried to convince us that scum knew Hourai?s alignment, which makes me suspicious. Furthermore, they had no reason to bus him ? he would have probably been confirmed town the very next day. One vote from either Bard or Huh What would have made you Conq.?s target, and then Hourai would have been saved for later.
Now the weird part about Huh What?s theory is that it would make both him and Bard look worse if they were bussing Hourai. I try to avoid talking about Huh What because he is one of the players that defends me. However, in retrospect that could be that if he?s scum, he would know with certainty that I am town. While Hourai did not have any exchanges with Bard, he did have exchanges with Huh What. These weren?t pleasant. However, running on the theory that Hourai was acting alone, it could be due to anger at Huh What or a ploy.
It occurs to me that Edible could have given us Schezo and faked his test. It also occurs to me that Huh What could be lying about his ability - he is a literal radio spy after all. If we can get Bardiche to tell us about his ability tomorrow, then we have a much better chance of figuring out if he is the liar. It is essential for Bard to claim, as if he lies it is our best chance of catching him. Huh What?s and Edible?s roles seem too well thought out to verify unfortunately. Also unfortunately we could not do this for Kilga, who we had no way of considering since he claimed vanilla townie like Schezo.
We need Bard, Huh what, and Edible to talk about all the players tomorrow. We were so wrapped up in Edible?s five that we didn?t cover anyone outside the list. Scum telling us about the other players is too valuable an opportunity to ignore.
Bard did a lot of things that were strange ? supporting Dormio taking away Shadoweh?s vig kill before even knowing it could be returned, wanting Dormio not to return it, claiming a night kill but avoiding any claim to vig powers (once again we just filled in the part about being a vig for him), doing exactly what he said he would do if he?s scum ? there?s a mountain of reasons I wanted his head. If (and only if) scum actually did have a vig in Schezo, then Bard could very easily be scum. Unfortunately, I don?t believe Schezo?s hit man ability means an extra kill ? rather, Schezo could break Huh What?s claimed shield. But if he doesn?t claim tomorrow, I will try to hang him. I want to see if I can catch him in a lie. I do consider the fact that he originally thought traitor was a player that scum didn?t know about can work both for and against him ?
See, a problem with Huh What is that he started with the assumption that scum knew who the traitor was. If scum didn?t know who the traitor was, they might start their arguments by talking about how he was a traitor. However, it could also be Huh What simply hoping we wouldn?t consider the possibility that scum didn?t know Hourai. Bard?s original view, interestingly, makes him look worse than he had to. He looked great if scum knew Hourai.
If Bard is scum, he is hurling the fact in our faces so hard that we simply won?t be able to believe it. I don?t mind believing things at face value though.
If Edible is scum, then he is very smart scum. He knowingly sacrificed a weaker scum (Schezo) who said, side by side, that he was vanilla town and that we shouldn?t trust Edible. It?s brilliant and it could win the game. I can?t get any negative read on him either. The only thing I know for certain is that he wanted us to kill Schezo. He was on Kilga?s case for most the day too. I don?t really trust anyone completely in this game, but Edible hasn?t done anything clearly scummy. He?s also only been here for one day.
There is a very good chance Zak is scum. If he were not scum, I can?t imagine the mod wouldn?t have mod killed him yet. He hasn?t posted for nearly 100 hours.
Radio Strategy
Thanks to your radios, if we can get the 3rd scum we can win. If we can get him tomorrow we can win for certain.
Swapping the radio takes up a night action. As a result, scum cannot swap a radio and do a NK in theory. However, scum could choose not to NK at all. So once we have the third scum down, we simply have to no lynch over and over again until scum is force to NK, and have two players a night swap the radios with two other players, which will give us two players that are not scum a night. Even if one of them gets NK?d, we can still get at least one additional confirmed town for each NK, giving us two town at four person Lylo and guaranteeing the identity of the final scum at three person Lylo.
If we are unable to catch the third scum until day 4 and are in four-person LyLo, we should not lynch anyone, but instead use the time to get at least one confirmed town. With 6 people remaining, victory is assured. With four, we can get at least one confirmed town in 3 person LyLo, so I suggest we do confirm a town by skipping the lynch that day and using the radio swap trick. This strategy will make 3 person LyLo easier than entering blind or attempting 4 person LyLo.
Final Notes
I want to apologize. I love mystery novels, and I had too much free time over Spring Break. I think I love this game a little too much, and I doubt I should play another round.
Here is my favorite song, I'll probably post it when I get NK'd/lynched: Border of Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FLclPKznaw)
Thank you,
capt. h
-
Derp, forgot the Bard quote:
I share the belief that Hourai being specifically named "Traitor" when everyone else flipped "Town" indicates a traitor role, which would not be absurd given the "experimental roles" we were promised and thus some outlandish roles such as Multi-Cop Edible and Vigilant Cop UK hanging about. Having said that, it means Hourai flipping scum does nothing to improve my opinion of huh what, as he could have been bussing a buddy unintentionally.
-
I wrote a post but upon reread it looks like more insane ramblings. I pastebin'd it in case it's useful but um maybe it should just stay in the bin where it possibly belongs. Except that bin is more like a trash bin but whatever.
It includes another puppet show. You have been warned. http://pastebin.com/cRtB8tqw
tl;dr if capt.h is town then either Huhwhat or Edible is scum, capt.h please quote your radio messages to the mod from last night that look so town IMO. >: ninja:oh cool you diiid
-
Okay, speculations.
Bard would be the safest kill, as he's a claimed vig, and most likely there is a possibility of multiple kills tonight.
Fun speculation: ModeSlaves all over again instantly ending the game.
-
Since I can't seem to make a meaningful post at the library, I'll just post my thoughts on the game format.
It's LYLO with 8 people/zombies/things alive.
Two deaths (lynch+NK) wouldn't be enough to make town lose, unless there are a ridiculous number of zombies, so I'm going to work off the assumption that there is a third party amongst us.
Naturally, I think that Bardiche is this third party.
Anyway, I'll make a proper post when I get home.
Warning - While you were typing a new rep(ry WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
-
Oh, minor note on the radios - I got your message last night Neo, but it was ambiguous as to whether Huh What would get it too. I was a bit surprised, as I thought Huh What would receive it instead. @Huh What - Did you receive Neo's message too? If you did, could you confirm what it was about?
-
I did not receive any messages last night, no. I just received RadioB.
-
I did not receive any messages last night, no. I just received RadioB.
Thanks.
If your wondering, it was just a one-liner saying the radio system takes too long.
-
##Vote huh what
Right now, I think that both Bardiche and huh what are anti-town.
Edible and his infinite masscop also raises some eyebrows but then my ability is also pretty lol, so iunno.
If my suspicions are correct and Bardiche is third party, we don't really have to worry about him seeing as I can just pump him full of drugs every night.
Also:I think the ability to listen in on the radios is just tied to another scum.
Aren't you the one tapping into the radios?
Also, when I started writing this it was 3 hours ago.
And no cut.
What?
-
I'd also like to bring up Kilgamayan's argument on huh what (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg586512.html#msg586512) seeing as I find myself agreeing with pretty much all of it.
In addition, looking back on Hourai/Schezo's posts, Schezo only offers his opinion on huh what once.
huh what looks a little strange for pushing Bard so much but I don't think he's that bad when he's run around with ideas and seems to be trying.
Hourai tried arguing against huh what for a bit (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg583177.html#msg583177) but he didn't really follow through on it.
There is the whole Traitor headache going on with him but regardless of whether or not he was a traitor, he'd know who the rest of the zombies were.
-
@Zak - Are you the survivor role?
I don't think there is three scum remaining - it just feels like too many. And this is zombie apocalypse mafia. Thus, my gut tells me that there may be a survivor, as it would fit in with the theme. Since you are the least active player here, to the point where I thought you would be mod-killed, I figure you might be the survivor role trying to lurk your way to the end of the game.
-
I'd also like to bring up Kilgamayan's argument on huh what (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg586512.html#msg586512) seeing as I find myself agreeing with pretty much all of it.
I don't recall you agreeing with it before we lynched him. Any particular reason why you're just now bringing it up?
-
Whoops, looks like you actually did (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg587476.html#msg587476). My bad.
-
If you cross this with the previous day's check, where out of huh what and Bardiche one or both of them has to be a zombie, and how Colt is town.
That leaves either Bardiche as scum or clears all of us.
How so? Edible's investigation shows whether a sample group has 1 or less zombies[/r], or 2 or more zombies. An all town dream team pick gives the same result as 1 scum rest town.
I would love to call for Huh What's head again today, but I admit to slight peevement that I still do not get my cake. I'll dust off my old post later to underline why we should lynch him today and who his possible scumbuddies are but in the interest of fair pursuit of information.
Edible,
I imagine Bard is probably a serial killer and is required to shoot scum every night.
Only one person died tonight. How do you support this claim that you believe I am a serial killer with compulsory murder actions each night when only one person died?
I'll claim later. Need to confirm something with Serp first.
-
Guess I can reveal at least a little... as everyone surmised, I'm not really in league with town. I could honestly care less if you won and intended to just be lazy and vote the people who voted me, then stubbornly stick to it in hopes of appearing as misguided town. This... hasn't really worked, so far, I surmise, as some aren't fooled.
It's also why I pretty much gave up when Shadoweh threatened to shoot me because unlike everyone else here, I don't get to win by team effort. I need to do it all myself.
I cannot imagine being the cause of the LyLo situation we find ourselves in, and even if I were I was, indeed, roleblocked this night. It is because of this roleblock that I question Edible's suggestion that I am required to shoot "scum" every night. If I was I never could've shot UK. :V I guess reading back Dormio claimed he'd roleblock me anyway which annoys me greatly, but it explains Edible's statement.
I'm perfectly willing to vote with town on who they think is scummiest. The way I see it, refusing to cooperate means an immediate lynch (I might be the cause of LyLo after all), and I'd rather try to win the game, so I'll cooperate. I maintain that Huh What is scummy, and given he's the only one from the bucket list who survived I cannot imagine NOT lynching him unless Edible is, in fact, scum. Do you need my opinion on the possibility of a scum Edible and who his possible allies would be? I'll give a full claim once Serp confirms one thing for me, this also ties into whether I think Edible is bullshitting a role or not.
-
EBWOP: only one from the bucket list beside me, of course.
-
Only one person died tonight. How do you support this claim that you believe I am a serial killer with compulsory murder actions each night when only one person died?
bllrhoghgoh
Meant to say "every other night". My bad.
@Bard: Are you some sort of zombie (regardless of alignment)? Like I've been saying since your claim I thought you were third-party, but I'll take a neutral third party over someone actually trying to get all of us killed.
-
Oh, someone (I think Dormio) suggested a survivor being in play. This was precisely why I said "or maybe I'm being dumb", because a survivor is realistic, and means that yes, we could be in LyLo with 2 scum and only 1 extra kill (which might be Bard if he can but idk? And Dormio is apparently blocking it anyway)
K anyway, still sticking with me thinking capt.h is town, which means by Ediblelogic, huhwhat HAS to be scum or Edible is lying scum.
capt.h:There is no friggin way Zak was trying to lurk his way through the game. Lurking even past the point where the mod said they would modkill you for it would not be something anyone would do on purpose while trying to win.
Oh cool Bard ninja!>"I cannot imagine being the cause of the LyLo situation we find ourselves in" Well if you're a third party survivor, or some other role that basically means 2scum2town1you=Game Over, then yes, you are :V But we don't need to kill you off, in any case. Well, depending on your full role details, like if you've gotta kick the bucket for town to eventually win, but.
Anyway, on your question over whether we'd like your opinions on the possibility of scum Edible, yeah that'd be pretty cool :3
-
Well, that's what I need Serp to confirm, Edible.
Cut by Neo. What? Aren't we eight alive? 2 scum, 5 town, 1 me would still not yield LyLo. Er, unless I guess you lynch town.
4 town into nightphase, 3 after scum, 2 after me. Yeah. But then I could STILL vote with town to lynch scum? I'm not sure how we entered this situation, is why.
-
I imagine if your role flavor said something about infected blood or some such, then yes - you'd show up as a zombie in my tests.
-
EBWOP: @Bard: Remember, there's no stated difference between psuedo-lylo and actual lylo in Serp's game. I think your scenario is accurate - if we lynch town today and you and scum both shoot town tonight, town loses.
-
I am "infected" by zombies, but haven't yet turned zombie. As long as I survive to the end I can either get treatment or embrace my brainfeasting future.
-
Yes, what Edible said; if you are a role that wins just by surviving to the end, I would understand it if 2scum2town1you, then scum is equal to town and wins, and you've survived.
Also, sounds like you probably trigger Edible's test.
Time to calculate the implications of this.
-
I am "infected" by zombies, but haven't yet turned zombie. As long as I survive to the end I can either get treatment or embrace my brainfeasting future.
And to aid this, I can in fact perform a vigilante kill, but conditions are involved as I stated. I cannot guarantee I will be able to kill tonight. It's not a simple "wait for a night before you can do it again", and I am as yet concerned scum could off me in the night.
If I do trigger Edible's test, it means that indirectly clears Huh What of bucket list suspicion. I maintain that he is the scummiest thing I've seen this game despite my failings to convince people of this, and I am currently reading through the topic to link Edible to possible buddies, and the same for Huh What.
-
I fully believe Bard's claim.
Bard, PX, Dormio, and Zakeri are all as far as I can tell unlynchable today - if there are any more false flags in my ability I'm gonna be a sad panda.
That leaves today's potential lynches to myself, huh what, Serela, and capt.h... two of which are scum.
Ninja polearm:
If I do trigger Edible's test, it means that indirectly clears Huh What of bucket list suspicion.
Not true.
My ability specifies "at least" two zombies if I get a positive result. If you are a "zombie" and Schezo was a zombie, it is still quite possible for huh what to be one. (I'm just not sure he is, myself.)
-
I believe Bard wholeheartedly.
Time to see how this changes Edible's test results, assuming he's truthing.
Bard/Huhwhat test; well, Huhwhat can still possibly be scum.
Bard/Zak/Dormio/PX:Welp. Zak Dormio and PX have all been cleared as town.
I know I'm town, so that would mean if there are 2 scum and Edible isn't scum himself, they would HAVE to be Huhwhat and Capt.H. This argument goes for Huhwhat and Capt.h as well, except exchange their name with mine.
However, let's assume for a second that Bard DOESN'T trigger the test. Huhwhat still has to be scum if Edible isn't lying.
So I'm still down to, for today, either Huhwhat is scum or Edible is lying scum. Regardless of whether Bard triggers the test or not. Amusing!
If I do trigger Edible's test, it means that indirectly clears Huh What of bucket list suspicion.
No, as the test they were in has "2 or more zombies", so both you AND Huhwhat could have triggered it. At least, huhwhat isn't cleared if your name is NeoSerela or Capt.H, where huhwhat actually HAS to be scum if Edible isn't lying. And still has to be scum if you think either me or Capt.H is town (and Edible isn't lying).
Also, Edible's ability is amusingly flawed, as there is a scum (Hourai) that wouldn't trigger it and a non-scum that does! At least the scum falsifier died D1, for rather amusing reasons in itself.
-
I fully believe Bard's claim.
Bard, PX, Dormio, and Zakeri are all as far as I can tell unlynchable today - if there are any more false flags in my ability I'm gonna be a sad panda.
That leaves today's potential lynches to myself, huh what, Serela, and capt.h... two of which are scum.
Ninja polearm:
Not true.
My ability specifies "at least" two zombies if I get a positive result. If you are a "zombie" and Schezo was a zombie, it is still quite possible for huh what to be one. (I'm just not sure he is, myself.)
Here's the deal: if we catch a zombie with the next flip (I'm assuming Huh What, as he seems like the most likely lynch at the moment), NeoSerela will be able to confirm herself town by passing her radio. Dormio should be able to block my abilities (he implied he could), which would clear me, but even if he can't we can give the radios tonight to me and you, and clear ourselves by passing them during the next night phase. If two people both send a message on the radio while passing it, the previous owner will receive the message while the next owner will receive the radio, so we have two people that can verify the location of the radio if we post the recipient of our radios in our night messages.
We need to make a system for passing the radios until zombies perform a night kill though. I'll try to figure one out later.
-
would a roleblock disable passing of the radios?
-
This changes everything. Assuming Edible isn't lying scum, then we've but just got the scum teams figured out.
2Ninjas: I think the block should disable passing radios.
-
It makes perfect sense for Bard to trigger the result given his claim and I'm pretty sure I've been saying he's third party all day yesterday ever since he claimed responsibility for UK's murder. <_<;
This is how my ability isn't ridiculously broken - there are false flags. My ability should be able to detect more "real" zombies than "fake" zombies, though:
Here's how I imagine it's laid out:
Scum1 - Hourai (would not detect)
Scum2 - Schezo (would detect)
Scum3 - ??? (would detect)
Scum4 - ??? (would detect)
Neutral - Bardiche (would detect)
Logically, three potential "good" results and two "bad" results - serves to balance the role without making it overly powerful.
-
Not to mention the ambiguous 1 or no zombies giving a negative result.
-
So...
Lynch Huh What
Dormio blocks either Capt. H or NeoSerela
Bard kills the other
Sounds good?
-
It actually doesn't explain everything yet. Like the UK nightkill - I would not expect that from a survivor.
Once I hear Bard's fullclaim, I want some time to discuss our strategy for tonight before we hammer anyone. I think town's victory is guarenteed with the right strategy.
-
I don't oppose to a mass claim at this point.
-
I'm more inclined to buy Edible as scum than Serela/capt. h together, honestly. I obviously don't buy into a huhwhat/Serela or huhwhat/capt. h pairing either.
It seems possible to me that Edible is scum and predicted I'd limited track him last night and prepared to claim the second test as a result.
-
Bard - survivor with vig
capt h. - plain vanilla
Dormio - power thief
huh what - Secret Agent Man
Edible - biologist
Neo - radio star
PX - plain vanilla
Zak - ?
We just need Bard to finish his claim, Zak to make his claim, and Dormio to explain his powers.
I'd like to take a moment to say Edible is probably town. Not because I trust him, but because the game is clearly formatted around his ability (with many roles making little sense otherwise). If he isn't town, then Hourai and Bard don't make sense. One of them might make sense, but not both.
I have some theories, but I want to hear from the remaining two players before I state them. Especially Zak. If anyone's powers can break my theories, it's Zak's.
(If you missed it, I just claimed vanilla.)
-
The format of the game doesn't necessarily have to be themed around Edible's role. We don't know the flavor behind UK's investigations, it's possible she was affected by the same issues regarding the roles of Hourai and Bard.
-
Dormio - power thief
We just need Bard to finish his claim, Zak to make his claim, and Dormio to explain his powers.
Yo, when did I ever claim that?
-
Yo, when did I ever claim that?
You didn't, but you've clearly been suppressing the powers of others.
So what is your ability?
-
I think I've already said enough about it.
You fishing, again?
-
I think I've already said enough about it.
You fishing, again?
Well, I guess I'll tell you my theories now.
I'm not scum and I can't imagine Neo is scum.
Either Edible or Huh What are likely to be scum. But Edible's first day test did exactly what it was supposed to do, and only one of them can be scum.
Bard didn't set off the detector, in spite of being infected. And he claimed 3rd party
Therefore, the player that can take away both night and day abilities is scum. You are the only player that seem to have abilities that can beat Edible's test. I wanted Zak to roleclaim first, but since you asked, I think you are scum.
And by the way, lynch Bard. He's not a survivor with vig powers; he's a serial killer. And even if he were a survivor, i would have wanted the known survivor lynched today (which is why I was hoping Zak was the survivor). The extra day we get downing a known anti-town player will enable us to verify many town allegiances tonight, and we may even be able to structure the night actions so that scum can't kill. If we have Huh what toss his radio and Dormio block someone who will know that they were blocked, then neither of them will be able to perform a NK, and we can verify that neither of them are scum.
I was hoping Edible would be able to retest the p[layers, but with Bard's confession, we have two scum that block Edible.
-
You're being pretty reliant on roles, there.
Also, I'm wondering how you think that I can beat Edible's test.
-
Bard didn't set off the detector, in spite of being infected. And he claimed 3rd party
...
Uh.
Do you need a reminder of how my ability works?
And I wasn't blocked last night. I got a definite result.
-
Scum Team:
what huh and capt. h
-
You're being pretty reliant on roles, there.
Also, I'm wondering how you think that I can beat Edible's test.
If you told us your role we would know if you could. However, it's pretty straightforward:
I think only one player in Edible's ambiguous list could possibly be scum. Either that, or Neo is amazing at this game.
Your ability can take away other players powers at will in both night and day cycles.
It's not a stretch to think other players abilities probably won't work on you.
I was hoping you would full-claim before I made my accusation so you wouldn't have any accusation to build your response around (in case you were scum), but you weren't willing to do that.
-
Scum Team:
what huh and capt. h
Look PX, let's kill the serial killer Bard today, kill huh what tomorrow, and then I'll be able to prove I'm town using the radio night actions on the last day.
-
If you told us your role we would know if you could. However, it's pretty straightforward:
I think only one player in Edible's ambiguous list could possibly be scum. Either that, or Neo is amazing at this game.
Your ability can take away other players powers at will in both night and day cycles.
It's not a stretch to think other players abilities probably won't work on you.
I was hoping you would full-claim before I made my accusation so you wouldn't have any accusation to build your response around (in case you were scum), but you weren't willing to do that.
I've actually already claimed all of my abilities.
You just need to read through my posts and piece it together.
Also, you're saying that I have dayblocks, nightblocks, as well as protection from every ability in the game (Bulletproof, Investigationproof etc.). OP much?
-
Also, why are you so insistent on killing Bardiche when he's effectively turned into a townie?
-
And by the way, lynch Bard. He's not a survivor with vig powers; he's a serial killer. And even if he were a survivor, i would have wanted the known survivor lynched today (which is why I was hoping Zak was the survivor).
This, and the declaration that we "have two scum who block Edible" is utterly silly. You throw up a lot of clout to basically say, "Dormio is scum, but lynch Bardiche instead anyway". You still lack any basis on which to claim someone is scum or not other than "role speculation" and "setup mafia", which are interesting games on their own but during LyLo, surely you can come up with something better than that.
This is why I said earlier you do not scumhunt. You only play role speculation games, and off wrong assumptions as well. Declaring that you can down an anti-town player by lynching the survivor who pretty much agreed to roll with town because he does not want to die and that you should actually do so is flawed on two assumptions.
1) That third-party is directly anti-town. As yet, there is no basis to declare my behaviour as strictly anti-town, or if you have so you must declare it now.
2) That lynching not-scum takes precedence over lynching scum.
I of course disagree with two and find it flawed because the purpose of the game is to eliminate scum, not eliminate independent parties who may or may not work against town, and who more often than not will find themselves forced to pick sides and hey, one side can eliminate you if you're TOO useful, the other will lynch you if you're not useful ENOUGH. And the first side will try to get you lynched harder than the latter side, usually.
Unlike scum, whose win condition is directly opposite town's, lynching a third party is nothing more than being a jerk by denying someone's win condition at the expense of your own lynch. If I die, you gain no valuable interactive information, nor is there the guarantee that a 2 town, 2 scum, 1 third party would result in scum victory.
I would love to continue this, but sleep draws near and so I want to sleep. I am off from school early tomorrow, and so I can provide the analysis no sooner than that.
As far as my kill goes, I can nearly guarantee I will be able to use it tonight, but I can do so under two conditions:
A) That I voted that person at some point during the dayphase
B) That I do not overuse my ability
I have no idea what "overuse" entails nor what the negative effect would be of using it too much.
As far as Edible's list goes, Serp says he cannot answer questions re: role interactions.
-
I've actually already claimed all of my abilities.
You just need to read through my posts and piece it together.
Also, you're saying that I have dayblocks, nightblocks, as well as protection from every ability in the game (Bulletproof, Investigationproof etc.). OP much?
Look, I don't know what your ability is, and I'm not piecing it together for you. Simple answer - another scum jack of all trades like from last game. But I know if Edible lives until tomorrow, he's going to get some very funky results when he tests me and Neo, so I guess I can let it drop until tomorrow.
Besides, there's an easy way to confirm you're not scum: we think huh what is scum, so if you block someone that will know you blocked them tonight while Huh what gets rid of his radio (and Neo gives her radio to Huh what), then none of you three can be scum buddies with eachother. Unfortunately, I won't be able to prove myself unless I get a radio some how, while Edible is the one that needs protection as he tests huh what against me and Neo, but I don't think it matters because we think huh what is scum anyway and thus not very trustworthy.
We can win this game without doing any scum hunting whatsoever if we piece our night actions together instead of being hurp derp and alligning ourselves with a player that has both confessed to killing other players and has a third party role. We can work with facts instead of speculation. That's why I'm suggesting strategies to win and get absolute confirmation of who is town and who is scum.
-
Capt.h makes me think he's town during the night and then makes a post like 1001 that makes me go "...why did I think this person is town, again ;_;"
Capt.h+Huhwhat scumteam suddenly doesn't seem as unlikely to me.
Anyway. Responses underlined and bolded, but oh hey look a bunch of ninjas saying all this for me anyway.
Bard didn't set off the detector, in spite of being infected. And he claimed 3rd party
uh
Therefore, the player that can take away both night and day abilities is scum. You are the only player that seem to have abilities that can beat Edible's test. I wanted Zak to roleclaim first, but since you asked, I think you are scum.
what, how can he beat Edible's test again? This makes no sense. Also if you think Edible's tests are correct then Dormio is confirmed toooooown
And by the way, lynch Bard. He's not a survivor with vig powers; he's a serial killer. And even if he were a survivor, i would have wanted the known survivor lynched today (which is why I was hoping Zak was the survivor). The extra day we get downing a known anti-town player will enable us to verify many town allegiances tonight, and we may even be able to structure the night actions so that scum can't kill. If we have Huh what toss his radio and Dormio block someone who will know that they were blocked, then neither of them will be able to perform a NK, and we can verify that neither of them are scum.
Survivor, lynched? WHY? Survivor is NOT AN ANTI-TOWN ROLE. We can win perfectly fine with a survivor alive, and lynching him wastes a lynch that could be used on likely-scum.
Even if Bard is SK, he ALSO needs to kill scum right now, or he will LOSE.[/b]
I was hoping Edible would be able to retest the p[layers, but with Bard's confession, we have two scum that block Edible.
I am confus?
--------------------------------------------------vvv plz read this vvv------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, capt.h's radio idea is still a good idea, plus when it's combined with Dormio's roleblocking.
Tonight, Edible's test should be used on confirmtrigger Bard and our three confirmtowns along with one other person to see if they're scum for sure.
I will throw my radio at Huhwhat and Huhwhat will throw his at Edible. That will allow Huhwhat to bodyguard if he is not lying about his role, and if Edible dies, then huhwhat's scum.
If we do this, then we cannot lynch Bard or our confirmtowns (DUH), nor Edible or Huhwhat. That only leaves capt.h to lynch. This is actually perfectly fine, as if Edible is truthing, then with knowledge of me being town, Huhwhat and capt.H have to be scum.
##Vote:Capt.h
-
My ability is exactly as I've stated.
I block a player's day/night actions.
The only thing I haven't elaborated on is how I go about doing this, other than the fact that drugs are involved.
We can win this game without doing any scum hunting whatsoever
lol.
Anyway.
I'd prefer to align myself with Bardiche, because as far as I'm concerned he is a vanilla townie.
Right now, I'm think that huh what is a zombie.
I want to see him lynched today.
The only thing I can't figure out for certain is whether or not you're also a zombie or whether that goes to the lurker, Zakeri.
-
The only thing I can't figure out for certain is whether or not you're also a zombie or whether that goes to the lurker, Zakeri.
Unless we're going to go around thinking that Bardiche is an infected human whose infected blood does not trigger a test that looks for infected blood, Zak/PX/Dormio are all confirmed toooooooooooooown.
Currently thinking over how Bard's ability to NK fits into my plan, and who Edible should target. With planned aspects for whether capt.h flips town or scum.
-
Pesco disabled my new replies notification so I missed NeoSerela's post. :/
I would rather see huh what lynched, and I can move my block onto capt. h and Bardiche can shoot him during the night.
-
Oh yeah, did I mention I block night kills?
-
Oh yeah, did I mention I block people from performing night kills?
-
Normally, I'd be holding that against Capt.h as well except for two points.
1. This is lylo
2. This is actually one of the very few circumstances where full roleclaims before lylo can actually help town.
I am a Town Profiler. Once per night, I can scan a person, and figure out what they do for a living. In short, a rolecop.
Night one, I investigated Kilgamayan because I was completely lost, saw hourai had flipped red, and picked someone at random that was on the other bandwagon. He came up as Vanilla/Goon
Last night, I investigated Edible, and got the Result of "Biologist."
My role alone doesn't prove they are town, but it goes a long way in convincing me that Edible is telling the truth. The reason I didn't want to claim yesterday is because my role can only really find scum in people who lie about what their rolename is. I noticed when I was checking for claims earlier that Hourai had claimed "Chemist." When he was really a "Mad Scientist." This might also be why "Traitor" was used as an alignment rather than a role name because otherwise, I'd have been able to catch him with a single investigation.
I believe Bardiche's role as he's explained it so far. It also completely fits in with my HW/Bard/Capt.h theory earlier. I'll probably be using my ability to investigate him tonight, but if anyone has any better ideas, I'm open for suggestions.
Right now, what I feel like doing is going back over Capt.H's posts. I realize most of my case right now focuses on him being HW's buddy, so I want to come up with something more full before the end of the day.
Cut:
Re: Lynching Survivor - This is a bad idea, since best case scenerio - We're in true lylo tomorrow. I pretty much have taken the stance that lynching any third party, including Serial Killer, over Mafia is a stupid, stupid idea. This is multiplied greatly when the third party in question wins with the town victory and therefore has no reason not to lynch mafia.
Also, Neoserela, you need to stop being so Naive. Capt.H could say a million things that sound townie (The radio passing idea comes to mind) And yet, the only thing that really matters in terms of furthering scum goals is where the lynch lands, such as having a really good case on someone who is scum (i.e. Capt.H's case on HW yesterday) Yet suddenly switch to someone who was town, and completely swing the bandwagons away from scum (i.e. what Capt.H effective did in the last moments of the game yesterday.)
-
But that messes up my plan to keep Edible alive; otherwise he's obvnk.
...that's really the only reason I'm not saying "k lynch huhwhat", though.
Blocking capt.h is definitely what I recommend if we don't lynch him.
Actually, what about lynching Edible, if he flips town, you block Capt.H and Bard kills Huhwhat? We're pretty much guarenteed to kill or block a scum.
If he flipped SCUM, I'd say kill Capt.H and block... idk. One of the confirmtowns, since that means Edible would be lying. That would be PX or Zak.
OH HEY ZAK POSTED THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
k redoing all this thought, also, do I really still look like I think capt.h is town, considering I'm like, calling for his head ):
-
Your Naivity is just a point of annoyance to me. Also, this post was suppose to come out, like, a page ago, where you weren't calling for his head.
-
The way I see it, huh what is scum and should be lynched.
That should leave 1 zombie (capt. h) who won't be able to use whatever his ability is or the nightkill because I'll have moved my block onto him.
Bardiche will shoot capt. h. This should be the only kill that occurs during the night.
Anyway, I'm going to uni now.
Be back in 5 or so hours.
-
MOD: Would we be able to survive if the day ended in a No Lynch?
-
Zak:I AM THE WAFFLEMASTER, which is bad and dumb but oh well ;_;
K Edible is town unless we've got a Zak/Edible scumteam. Which would be believable. But let's not go there unless it's tomorrow and we didn't hit a single scum.
I say, lynch capt.h. IF HE FLIPS SCUM, Huhwhat will toss his radio at somebody (Edible), so that he cannot NK if he is scum, and if he doesn't toss it and someone dies then he's scum. Dormio blocks... I don't know. I toss my radio to huhwhat for the bodyguarding in case huhwhat is town. Edible checks Huhwhat. This is to make ABSOLUTELY SURE we have as much knowledge as possible to decide between lynching Huhwhat or someone else, as we cannot afford to mess up.
I don't think Bard should kill in that case.
IF CAPT FLIPS TOWN, I want Dormio to block Huhwhat and Bard to kill him.
We could lynch huhwhat I guess, but it's just that my plan sounds so nice in the case that capt.h flips scum >:
-
How is town!Zak + scum!Edible impossible?
It's not like scum never claim their true role names just in case a namecop exists.
-
I am having trouble seeing the Zombie Biologist role. Sorry. =|
-
After the release of a weaponized virus that gives its victims a mighty strong hunger for uninfected brains, the world has been plunged into chaos. You survivors have managed to hole yourself up in a makeshift fortress, but some unusually crafty zombies have snuck in with you! Now you'll have to root them out by the tried and true method of voting each other to die one by one.
The flavor says they're unusually crafty. It's not too unreasonable to believe they still have human skills.
-
MOD: Would we be able to survive if the day ended in a No Lynch?
Sorry, the mod can't confirm any distinction between LyLo and MyLo.
-
This thought kind of idly occurred to me; are we not closing the thread at 1000 posts?
I mean, I remember people saying it wasn't really necessary anymore (since a loong time ago), but it still kind of seemed to be a thing that happened. You know? And it's kind of cute!
-
Relax, I've got a permit from the local authorities.
-
Look, I apologize for what i said earlier. I forgot that scum would not want a serial killer around and will probably NK him.
Now what I'm going to do is work on a step-by-step strategy for distributing our abilities so that scum will be unable to win, regardless of what you think of my alliance. I advise you do the same.
We have 2 radios, Zak, and Dormio. Zak says he can confirm role names: Well, I am a vanilla townie. That should clear me and Zak tonight. Dormio can do a block on neoserela, which she can confirm when she doesn't receive messages in her receiver. Neo and Huh what can both toss their radios. Then none of us would be able to be on the scum team, because I would be town, and the other four players will have all used verifiable night actions. That makes the rest of the game easy.
-
That plan would frame me via being likely unable to toss my radio upon roleblocking.
Zak wouldn't be confirmed because Zak/Capt.H scumteam would still be possible. Or just scum Zak lying that he copped you (or truthing, even) and saying your role name. In fact, this would be very easy.
Not only that, but your plan reduces lynches today to... well, Edible and PX.
And if scum doesn't NK, whether because they can't or just don't, we don't have ANYONE confirmed as town from the plan.
-
Zak wouldn't be confirmed because Zak/Capt.H scumteam would still be possible. Or just scum Zak lying that he copped you (or truthing, even) and saying your role name. In fact, this would be very easy.
Or town!Zak saying "yep he's vanilla" but you're a vanilla mafia goon.
-
Hell, you would even still be able to do an NK! Whether you, Zak, or both were scum, they would still be able to NK. The only problem would be scum!Zak and a town!Capt lying that he was vanilla.
-
I seem to have temporarily forgotten that I firmly believe Zak is town unless Edible is lying about his tests, in which case I believe they are scum together. So it's pretty much narrowed down to Zak/Edible or Capt.H/Huhwhat. In my eyes, at least.
Everything I said is still pretty sound, though. Just would need to reorganize my "IF WE LYNCH CAPT.H AND HE FLIPS TOWN" plan into something much more awesome.
-
That plan would frame me via being likely unable to toss my radio upon roleblocking.
Zak wouldn't be confirmed because Zak/Capt.H scumteam would still be possible. Or just scum Zak lying that he copped you (or truthing, even) and saying your role name. In fact, this would be very easy.
Not only that, but your plan reduces lynches today to... well, Edible and PX.
And if scum doesn't NK, whether because they can't or just don't, we don't have ANYONE confirmed as town from the plan.
If scum doesn't NK, then we don't have to worry about them. If we force scum to kill first, we can clear many players at once.
Scum being unable to NK is a very good thing Neo. We can't lose if no one dies
And right now, the only player we know is not town is Bard. He may even be scum. But after a claim like that, we know he isn't town, and is probably a serial killer.
I'm going to organize my thoughts. They'll be long, and will involve tactics that will get us as many known townies as possible. If you kill me, at least make sure you have a strategy for the rest of the game first. We should not be able to lose if we simply use our roles well, and clear as many people as possible. Remember, if scum can't NK without confirming lots of town, then the only people that can lose the game for us is ourselves.
-
If you kill me, at least make sure you have a strategy for the rest of the game first.
I've got one for if you flip scum, working on one for if you flip town now!
Since I've organized my thoughts and realized I firmly believe in either Zak/Edi or Huh/Cap, suddenly things have become very straightforward.
-
I'm going to warn you, I don't believe Huh What/Cap is right.
I can believe that Huh What is scum, but his partner is not me. And I don't think you should let him off the hook just because I flip town. I think that there is a zombie that cannot be identified by Edible's test.
Remember, Edible's first test was in fact a positive - we've proven that with Bard.
I'd rather you didn't make a tactical mistake when I die by letting Huh What off the hook. Getting NK'd because huh what is scum would be much more preferable.
-
K. I believe in no better route then lynching capt.h today. This is because how Plan If-Capt-Flips-Scum utilizes huhwhat's roleclaim.
I say, lynch capt.h. IF HE FLIPS SCUM, Huhwhat will toss his radio at somebody (Edible), so that he cannot NK if he is scum, and if he doesn't toss it and someone dies then he's scum. Dormio blocks... I don't know. I toss my radio to huhwhat for the bodyguarding in case huhwhat is town. Edible checks Huhwhat. This is to make ABSOLUTELY SURE we have as much knowledge as possible to decide between lynching Huhwhat or someone else, as we cannot afford to mess up.
I don't think Bard should kill in that case.
Even though if capt.h flips scum I firmly believe Huhwhat is his partner, being absofuckinglutely sure is a very good thing. Bard shouldn't kill N3 in this plan for two reasons; one, I don't see any particularly good target, two so that IF WE LYNCH TOWN D4 HE CAN STILL SAVE US FROM GAVE OVER WITH A N4 KILL.
IF CAPT FLIPS TOWN, I want Dormio to block Edible or Zakeri and Bardiche kill one of them. I will throw my radio at huhwhat, and he will throw his to... someone who scum will hopefully target for an NK. Alternatively, Bard does not kill in case the NK goes through and we don't hit scum, as 2 town kills and a town lynch, being the worst possible outcome it seems, would lead to 2scum2town1bard and scum+bard win. Possibly.
capt.ninja:Okay, so you believe that there are TWO SCUM that cannot be identied by edible's test (Hourai and one more) PLUS Bard being a false positive? Dude. Dude.
Okay, so if Huhwhat is scum, then who is his partner? I do not see Huhwhat/Edible at all at all at all. This means Edible would be truthing if Huhwhat is scum, and that clears Dormio, PX, and Zak. And I know I'm not scum. That leaves no one other then you. Nobody. Unless there is a second zombie that cannot be identified, as you said. It's the only explanation and it's ridiculous.
Very very content with my capt.h vote.
-
K. I believe in no better route then lynching capt.h today. This is because how Plan If-Capt-Flips-Scum utilizes huhwhat's roleclaim.
Even though if capt.h flips scum I firmly believe Huhwhat is his partner, being absofuckinglutely sure is a very good thing. Bard shouldn't kill N3 in this plan for two reasons; one, I don't see any particularly good target, two so that IF WE LYNCH TOWN D4 HE CAN STILL SAVE US FROM GAVE OVER WITH A N4 KILL.
IF CAPT FLIPS TOWN, I want Dormio to block Edible or Zakeri and Bardiche kill one of them. I will throw my radio at huhwhat, and he will throw his to... someone who scum will hopefully target for an NK. Alternatively, Bard does not kill in case the NK goes through and we don't hit scum, as 2 town kills and a town lynch, being the worst possible outcome it seems, would lead to 2scum2town1bard and scum+bard win. Possibly.
capt.ninja:Okay, so you believe that there are TWO SCUM that cannot be identied by edible's test (Hourai and one more) PLUS Bard being a false positive? Dude. Dude.
Okay, so if Huhwhat is scum, then who is his partner? I do not see Huhwhat/Edible at all at all at all. This means Edible would be truthing if Huhwhat is scum, and that clears Dormio, PX, and Zak. And I know I'm not scum. That leaves no one other then you. Nobody. Unless there is a second zombie that cannot be identified, as you said. It's the only explanation and it's ridiculous.
Very very content with my capt.h vote.
You misunderstood me.
When I flip town, I see no reason to let Huh What off the hook. I am going to flip town. You do not believe me. Thus, since you think we are scum buddies, I would rather huh what hang first. If you don't see another possible partner for huh what, the order shouldn't matter. It matters to me because I know how I'll flip, and I really, really don't want you to ignore huh what as a result of my flip.
See, I myself think Huh What is scum. And from my end, the possibility of losing three townies in one day when we have easy methods for proving townies is a bad thing.
From this game, we have a traitor, a "survivor with vig kills" :V, and a guy that can check 5 people at once; do you really think a normal godfather role would be that strange?
-
do you really think a normal godfather role would be that strange?
I don't.
His name was Hanged Hourai. :)
-
Well, he was immune to investigation and claimed to be able to redirect any nightkills on himself to someone else, so he was essentially a stronger version of a Godfather.
-
Yay, lunch breaks.
And naturally I pick the computer at the library that has a somewhat broken screen.
Anyway.
My earlier statement was made with the assumption that huh what and capt. h are zombies.
Though if they are, it would probably win us the game so instead I'd prefer for huh what to be lynched, capt. h to be shot at night, and for my block to go on Edible or something.
Alternatively, if capt. h is lynched, huh what should be shot and the block still goes onto Edible or whoever.
Also, since you people are harping on about my nightblocks so much, allow me to clarify one thing about them.
Nightblocking doesn't take up a night action.
This is because my nightblock is an extension of my dayblocking role.
Basically, whoever I have my dayblock on when the day ends will also be nightblocked.
Also, I don't think my block would stop someone from hearing radio messages.
-
h. capt referred to himself in 3rd person. He must be scum!
No, but in all seriousness
1) How is a roleblocker guaranteed scum? That seems to be your only case against Dormio
2)
We have 2 radios, Zak, and Dormio. Zak says he can confirm role names: Well, I am a vanilla townie. That should clear me and Zak tonight. Dormio can do a block on neoserela, which she can confirm when she doesn't receive messages in her receiver. Neo and Huh what can both toss their radios. Then none of us would be able to be on the scum team, because I would be town, and the other four players will have all used verifiable night actions. That makes the rest of the game easy.
That plan proves nothing. You're not confirmed vanilla townie, Dormio blocking Serela would only stop the receivers, the receivers really mean nothing, as they're not instant clears. Both scum can end up with them, so they're essentially useless. If you're a standard mafia goon, then Zak copping you means nothing, as you'd just come up as vanilla. And I see no way how this clears huh what.
-
PX, would you agree with lynching capt.h today?
I want to know people's feelings on this. :3
-
Why not? The plan is interchangeable as long as both of them die.
-
Also, is it just me or is the entirety of capt. h's plan just killing time?
Warning - ATATATATATATATATATA
I'm fine with lynching either huh what or capt. h.
I want to see both of them die anyway.
-
h. capt referred to himself in 3rd person. He must be scum!
No, but in all seriousness
1) How is a roleblocker guaranteed scum? That seems to be your only case against Dormio
2)
That plan proves nothing. You're not confirmed vanilla townie, Dormio blocking Serela would only stop the receivers, the receivers really mean nothing, as they're not instant clears. Both scum can end up with them, so they're essentially useless. If you're a standard mafia goon, then Zak copping you means nothing, as you'd just come up as vanilla. And I see no way how this clears huh what.
PX, the radio passes are guaranteed way to confirm town.
Let me explain the mechanics.
Suppose I own radio B. At night, send a message saying I'm giving radio B to you. I then give radio B to you.
Suppose (hypothetically), Dormio gives Edible radio A in the same way.
Even if Neo were unable to hear the message, Dormio would receive my message saying I gave the radio to you. I would also receive the message that he was giving the radio to Edible. Thus, we both would have used a night action, and we would both know something was up if our recipients didn't claim the radio. We have two, if not three (with Neo) who can confirm a pass was declared, and the recipients to confirm they own the radio, which means the only night action either me or Dormio could have done was pass our radios. Neither of us could night kill. If a goon does end up with them, and a night kill happens, the player with no conflict would be in the clear and we would know scum had to be one of the two players where a dispute occurred. If no dispute occurs, both passers are town.
-
PX:While I was getting drunk off of LOGICPOWERDOMINATIONRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*coughcoughahem* I completely forgot you clearly stated you believe the scumteam to be huhwhat/capt.h. Righty-o.
That leaves Huhwhat, Zak, Edibowl, and Bard's reactions to see. *Sits down and twiddles fingers*
-
You know, if you don't want to kill time (and you think the order doesn't matter), we could vote one of us out right now. I believe Huh what is at L-3, which means we have enough votes here to bring him to Lynch. I was kind of figuring you would want to figure out who the rest of the zombies were and plan your night actions first though.
-
Unless the zombies can skip their nightkill.
Considering how we've had bodyguards etc. and my ability can stop nightkills from being performed if done right, I don't think that this is unfeasible.
Naturally this is all setup speculation, which is pretty much the only activity you've been doing all game.
Also, how does your plan clear both of them?
If we don't lynch a zombie, and only one of the zombies gets the receiver, a nightkill could still occur but according to your logic the other zombie would get a full clear.
Warning - Your post is now DIAMONDS. I'm on a horse.
-
Unless the zombies can skip their nightkill.
Considering how we've had bodyguards etc. and my ability can stop nightkills from being performed if done right, I don't think that this is unfeasible.
Naturally this is all setup speculation, which is pretty much the only activity you've been doing all game.
Also, how does your plan clear both of them?
If we don't lynch a zombie, and only one of the zombies gets the receiver, a nightkill could still occur but according to your logic the other zombie would get a full clear.
Warning - Your post is now DIAMONDS. I'm on a horse.
We kill a zombie first.
The messages won't get sent until all night actions are submitted, so as long as you don't tell anyone the recipient of your radio in advance, zombies won't be able to kill your target. If your target dies, it would be suspicious, but the other receiver would confirm at least one townie.
-
I simply want to make sure that people agree with my plan first.
And if they don't, I shall drill it into their heads why it's better then whatever they're thinking, LOGICPOWERDOMIN-err
Besides, my plans simply work out better if we lynch you first, capt.h. Unless the scumteam is you/huhwhat and not edible/zak, and Bard just goes ahead and kills the other during the night against my wishes, in which case I guess it doesn't matter.
Other then to save us N4 if things go wrong and we haven't won at/by D4 lynch (FAILSAFES ARE GOOD THINGS K), I'd like to avoid Bard nking tonight simply to help ensure we don't see whatever this "power overuse" thing is. I'm a sucker for good endings, and I don't want him to become a zombie or something because he went a little overboard eating peoples brains at night >:
Besides, taking an extra day juuuust to be sure won't hurt! My N3 plan in the case of capt.h flipping scum should prevent a nightkill (unless Huhwhat goes out and directly incriminates himself), and will stop us from killing huhwhat if he turns out to actually be town. While capt.h is the only good choice to be huhwhat's scumbuddy, it's not INCONCIEVABLE that someone else would be capt.h's partner. Playing it safe is best.
-
Another thing. WHY DO YOU ASSUME THAT SCUM CANNOT NIGHT KILL AND DO SOMETHING AT THE SAME TIME? BECAUSE CLEARLY HOURAI HAD AN ABILITY.
-
I suppose this is at least worth asking, even if we get a "NOPE CAN'T TELL YOU."
Serp:Are people allowed to use multiple night actions in one night, when they have multiple actions avaliable to them?
-
Can we have a votecount, too?
-
Generally though, what I see in games is that scum have to choose between nightkilling OR using their special ability.
And yeah, votecount would be koolbeenz.
-
Nope, can't give a general answer for that. Can give a votecount, though.
VOTECOUNT - Fifth Amendment Edition
huh what (2): PX, Dormio
capt. h (1): NeoSerela
Not voting: Bardiche, capt. h, huh what, Edible, Zakeri
With 8 votes in play, 5 are required to lynch. 96 hours remaining.
-
Since I don't think I'll be alive soon, I should tell you that considering this game, Zak's role is too bland. There isn't anything technical about it - he probably robbed it from the wiki. Considering how experimental all the roles are, and that our cop already died, I think his claim is a lie. Combined with the fact that he wasn't modkilled probably means that we really had the last zombie trapped in the list, and he was allowed to play to keep the game going. This especially works if Bard wins with town - Huh what was our next target. He's my second scum pick.
If I'm killed tonight, you'll be coming under the line of fire Neo. You're the last ambiguous result from Edible's test that wasn't Edible himself. Also be careful of PX - He's going to be a liability. Tends to be a bit too rash.
I think Dormio could be either town or scum.
Edible may not be trustworthy, but his positive result was in fact a positive.
There's a slight chance that Bard is scum. He had a week to come up with his role. I don't really believe he told the truth about his win condition, but it would explain why he wants us to kill both scum tonight. That won't be possible, but you should be able to get at least one scum.
I want to be very, very clear.
I will flip town. Kill Zak first. Find out his ability before going after Edible. I think that there's a false negative somewhere.
I actually find Huh what to be the safer lynch. At least one player is a zombie of Bard and Huh what, and the mod didn't confirm anything about Bard. He went after Kilga on the assumption that scum were bussing Hourai :V. For all his intelligence, I would expect him to accept differing version of events more easily if he were town and be less "certain" in a game of mafia. And in spite of his last active time being five minutes ago, he hasn't said a word to defend me. If he was scum and thought I was scum, I doubt he would bus me knowing he would die five minutes after the votecount.
I love last active times.
-
Bard killing Zak if you flip town is a totally desirable chain of events. It's covered in my plan, after all :3
I would like to thank you for trying to be so helpful, if you do indeed flip town!
The waffle side of me is almost being swayed over to wanting to lynch huhwhat instead of capt.h, but I know that I should be resisting this thought! I had a perfectly logical thought process as to why I decided to plan kills in this order. Huhwhat is almost certainly not scum if capt.h isn't. I can't remember why at the moment, but I'm sure it's in my previous posts. There simply was not any other suitable scumbuddies. Huhwhat, if town, has useful abilities as well.
As for Edible's lists, assuming they are true and that Bard is a postive, then they provide absolutely no info as to whether huhwhat is town or scum. Schezo and Bard cover the "at least 2 zombies" in the test with huhwhat.
-
Also, if Bard is a serial killer, then as long as things go well, we should be able to simply lynch him after 2 scum die. If 2 die and the game isn't over, then Bard will be the probable suspect, after all.
...if he's scum, well, that sort of flips things upside down, but we can deal with this tomorrow when more info has been obtained.
-
So... you're saying everybody is scum?
-
You do understand that both scum and Bard win if we lynch town he misses scum, right?
There are 2 scum, 1 Bard, 5 town.
We lynch 1 town, Bard kills 1 town,
2 scum, 1 bard, 3 town, automatic Bard and scum win.
-
... What? I'm quite sure that the standard win con for scum is if
Scum number => Everyone else
So... Wait....
Bard ends up turning into a zombie?
-
Not to mention you forget the scum NK in general
-
... What? I'm quite sure that the standard win con for scum is if
Scum number => Everyone else
So... Wait....
Bard ends up turning into a zombie?
All Bard has to do if we miss is vote with the zombies; the zombies simply don't kill him, and their team wins. This is exactly why we're in LyLo.
-
I'm kind of against the plan of Bard NKing me, but okay, whatever.
I'd rather go after Huh what tonight to be honest. I know we have Dormio on our side, but the thing between HW and Capt.H is that we know H doesn't have any role powers, while HW does. Capt.H specifically wanted me to cop him with the promise that he would be a"Vanilla townie." I'm sure anyone astute enough on my posting would know that I can't get alignments with my role, which means that he's definitely roleless.
This is biased, coming from my results, but if we lynch Capt, or HW, and we end up getting a townie, we should have Dormio on Edible. HW was right when he said the only thing I know for certain is that Edible has a role.
On that note, we should probably get the idea of making scumpairs out of our minds. I know with Edible's list that it probably seems like the remaining scum pair is a complete no-brainer, but this game is nothing if we devolve to not using our brains.
-
I feel so sluggish today.
Bardiche wanting to target another townie if we lynch town didn't really occur to me. I'd really like to know more about Bardiche's role now. There are still a few things that are vague about his kill.
-
We must hit a scum or third party target with our lynch. If we hit town, we will lose, because Bard isn't going to sacrifice his win condition for us. We know with certainty that Bard is third party, and that we live until tomorrow if he's lynched. The mere fact that you're discussing who to NK if I'm not scum means you don't have the certainty you need to attempt this plan - if you miss scum, there is no NK. There is no having Bard kill Zak - all he has to do is nothing and let the scum pick the targets and he fulfills his win condition.
But if you kill Bard tonight, you can make Huh what give away his radio in the way I suggested, have Zak check his flavor, and place Dormio's ability on me. If there's a NK that night, neither of us will have been the ones to attempt it. Since you seem certain that if I'm scum me and Huh What are a scum team, then placing us both under house arrest should secure the night from NK. but if your wrong, instead of losing we go back to LyLo. Or if scum don't attempt a NK, we actually end up out of Lylo, with seven players and 2 scum. This is much safer than needing to be absolutely sure that our lynch is scum, and verifies the scum team theory.
-
Actually, reading through Bard's claim, and the fact that it's pseudo-mylo, I think Bard becoming a zombie is a reality, hence the "Overusing the ability" part. I think he should hold off on the kill tonight. That said, I agree that if whoever we lynch (huh what and capt. h) flip town, Edible becomes the roleblocked target. Also, Dormio can you roleblock at night or only during the day?
Ehh, clarification: Can you change your roleblock target at night?
-
*facepalm* If there are two scum, and you're scum, and you're blocked, then the other scum can simply do the kill. Now die scum!
##Unvote
##Vote: Capt. H
-
*facepalm* If there are two scum, and you're scum, and you're blocked, then the other scum can simply do the kill. Now die scum!
##Unvote
##Vote: Capt. H
PX - The assumption is that I'm on a scum team with Huh what. The plan involves forcing Huh What to spend his night action in a way that can be verified, or get lynched. If Huh What doesn't pass his radio, he will be scum, because he committed the night kill. Naturally, he won't be allowed to pass the radio to me, but anyone else would be acceptable as long as they're town enough.
In other words, with my plan, we can prove whether me or Huh What are on a scum team or not. What we're doing now is hoping to hit scum, and relying on the mercy of a third party if we miss. Mercy that goes against the win condition of the third party.
-
On second thought, Neo should select the recipient of Huh what's radio using her radio. That way, Huh what won't be able to fake passing it, since the target will not have been selected by him.
-
What makes you so sure that scum can't kill and do night activities?
-
What makes you so sure that scum can't kill and do night activities?
Last game, the kill was the night action. You can only submit one actions per night. See, in the last game Huh What modded he used the night actions of the miller role as a potential alibi for when there was only one scum left; it wasn't used in game, but the potential to do it was referenced after the game was over. I'm mostly just assuming it, because it was true in the last game I watched.
In addition, when I got the radio, I was told that passing it would get rid of my night action.
-
Ehh, clarification: Can you change your roleblock target at night?
No, I actually go to sleep during the night.
Unlike the rest of you suicidal insomniacs.
capt. h: Now your setup speculation is spreading into the metagame?
-
Somewhat crushing silence, I may as well voice out my thoughts in the downtime.
The fact that I have assignments to do that are due tomorrow and the day after is completely unrelated to this.
Definitely.
Anyway.
Currently think that huh what and capt. h are the zombies.
I believe Bardiche's third party claim, after all it's what I thought he was before he claimed it.
Provided Bardiche plays along with us, that turns him in vanilla town (if I keep him full of drugs) or into town with a nightvig.
capt. h has been doing pretty much no scumhunting the entire game, instead basing all his arguments around the game setup.
And meta.
And then some more meta.
Hourai just writes capt. h off as DERRRRRRP and never mentions him again.
capt. h was mentioned by Schezo when Schezo called him out for rolefishing.
That's about it.
Schezo really didn't do much. :/
huh what.
huh, what?
Hourai, traitor or not, briefly mentioned huh what, attacking him but never placed a vote on him, nor did Hourai follow through at all with this attack.
Hourai made his attack on huh what to be an OMGUS as well.
huh what, I consider my thing on him to be legit. And he was twisting my actions in an unneeded scummy light.
Also, Bardiche/Kilgamayan's arguments about huh what.
Schezo emphasized his links to people when he died.
Naturally, he's attacked huh what.
But his attack was really, really weak.
huh what looks a little strange for pushing Bard so much but I don't think he's that bad when he's run around with ideas and seems to be trying.
I want to see these two die by the next morning, if I let Bardiche shoot, regardless of whether or not the lynchee flips town or zombie.
If it turns out neither of them are zombies then... welp.
But if one is a zombie, and the other wasn't, I assume that either Edible or I will be the nightkill.
Because it seems we both have pretty ludicrous abilties.
Also, on the topic of my block, I'm not entirely comfortable with moving it off Bardiche.
Eeeeh, I think I've distracted myself from assignments long enough.
I should really get back to working on it.
Statistics with skulls, what fun~
-
Oh, and also, if it turns out that huh what or capt. h isn't a zombie, my suspicions fall onto Edible, Zakeri or NeoSerela in that order.
Edible because lolpower.
Zakeri because lollurking.
NeoSerela because reasons I can't remember right now and can't be bothered looking for.
Naturally, I'd need to re-read before I get any proper thoughts about them.
-
Hourai, traitor or not, would know who the zombies were and briefly mentioned huh what, attacking him but never placed a vote on him, nor did Hourai follow through at all with this attack.
Hurr, forgot to add in one part.
Also, I like how I didn't get cut during all these posts.
-
Oh, and also, if it turns out that huh what or capt. h isn't a zombie, my suspicions fall onto Edible, Zakeri or NeoSerela in that order.
Edible because lolpower.
Zakeri because lollurking.
NeoSerela because reasons I can't remember right now and can't be bothered looking for.
Naturally, I'd need to re-read before I get any proper thoughts about them.
Uh, actually, I think PX is worse than NeoSerela because he's spent the entire game doing pretty much nothing.
Actually maybe he's the worst out of this list.
-
Also, just a heads up, I won't be around much tomorrow.
Because Thursday.
Classes from 9am~6pm with only one 1 hour break in between.
And I have assignments due Friday that I'll have to work on once I get home.
-
And back.
It's impossible for me to guess at a scumbuddy pairing for Huh What and Edible respectively. The way Huh What declared he'd track Edible and Edible getting a second shot of a declared night action almost makes me want to entertain the idea of a Huh What/Edible scumteam, but then they'd have pulled a daring gambit of all gambits and it'd be hilarious, but unlikely.
I'll look at voting Huh What later, but for now an interesting venue opened up.
We know with certainty that Bard is third party, and that we live until tomorrow if he's lynched. The mere fact that you're discussing who to NK if I'm not scum means you don't have the certainty you need to attempt this plan - if you miss scum, there is no NK. There is no having Bard kill Zak - all he has to do is nothing and let the scum pick the targets and he fulfills his win condition.
How are you certain you'll live until tomorrow when I die, and how can you proclaim I need do nothing and let scum pick the targets? If you lynch town, you lose, yes, but that is why you scumhunt and make sure you get scum today. I cannot believe you are honestly arguing, at LYLO, to avoid lynching scum, to disregard scumhunting and instead rely on role shenanigans that you are unsure of with the idea that Serp would make a game so horribly unbalanced that it could be won by virtue of roles alone.
I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe any mod would wrangle their game so that town can win the game by sheer virtue of its roles rather than its efforts to scumhunt, and that you would suggest this is the case and that town should take full fledged advantage of it seems downright silly to me. That you invoke WIFOM (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg589314.html#msg589314) as an argument to declare yourself not scum is also very suspect.
That capt h declares Zakeri scummy (the grounds on which this is done are unclear to me beyond "he didn't get modkilled" and "role speculation"!) but then shows no real zeal to even pursue this venue strikes me as suspect as well.
It's also telling that he declares HW is definite scum, but still provides no case to support that claim, looking like an easy hop on a popular target. He clears Edible based on Edible's role unpossibly being a scum role due to speculation that the game was centred around it, and brlgrhg. There's just so little scumhunting and so much gaming the setup and speculating roles from Capt H, alongside erratic voting, jumping on Kilga to lynch a town even pressuring people to vote with him and of course, the golden gem:
Bard did a lot of things that were strange ? supporting Dormio taking away Shadoweh?s vig kill before even knowing it could be returned, wanting Dormio not to return it,
How is me supporting Dormio taking away the vig kill that was going to hit me "strange"? It'd be normal for any alignment to support blocking whoever wants to kill them unilaterally, no?
While I'm at it. Bard?s original view, interestingly, makes him look worse than he had to. He looked great if scum knew Hourai.
If Bard is scum, he is hurling the fact in our faces so hard that we simply won?t be able to believe it. I don?t mind believing things at face value though.
Please explain how I am/was scummy for considering that Traitor was exactly what it usually means, a disconnected member of scum? How would that make me look great? How am I "hurling the fact [that I am scum]" in your faces so hard?
Capt H, again, why are you suggesting town not scum hunt nor lynch scum on LYLO, in favour of eliminating a third party and playing a role game?
-
#ZombieApocalypseMafia
#Title[Day 3 - Pseudo-MyLo!]
#BGM[dreadofthegrave.wav (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICKoZ18zHk)]
#ScriptVersion[2]
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5618/butdefb1.gif)
(Totally not stealing this from my first game)
Capt. H is scum! I can confirm this with his last post! He has stated that passing the radio would use his night action. HOWEVER, HE HAS CLAIMED VANILLA TOWNIE.[/color=blue] Therefore, there should be no reason why the pm would state it would use his night action as he should have no night action to use in the first place! Hence, he is lying scum![/color] Another thing, he claims that last game scum could not night kill and use their role night actions at the same time. HOWEVER, on Night 1 of the last game, ALL THREE SCUM USED THEIR ROLE ACTIONS AND KILLED SOMEONE. [/color=blue]Therefore, Capt. H is clearing bsing this! There is no need for town to lie ever, so he is clearly scum![/color]
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8503/saveusbernkastel4651548.jpg)
"But this all depends on if people can only take one night action at a time! You can't prove that I'm wrong!!"
Oh? But I will!!
On Night 0, NeoSerela had both radios. And NeoSerela had successfully passed both radios to UK and Shadoweh. They also confirmed this. Therefore, NeoSerela did TWO night actions! Otherwise, he would have only passed out one radio since it counts as a night action!
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5618/butdefb1.gif)
I've got you cornered now scum!
"Ha! But you'll won't know who the remaining scum is! Who cares if you lynch me!
However, we can find out who it is very simply! Dormio, rolebock huh what. Zakeri, cop huh what. Edible, test Bardiche, PX, Zakeri, Dormio, and NeoSerela! That way, we can clearly see which of the two unconfirmed is scum!
-
Ah fuck, two hours spent and that post ends up messed up. :(
Also, forgot to say Bardiche not shoot anyone, as I'm sure that will prevent a game over at night.
Guess I'll go get breakfast :(
Oh, and Bardiche ninja
-
Hmm. When we lynch whoever our intended target is today, can Dormio just roleblock Bardiche if we hit town instead of scum? That will at least prevent us from losing.
@PX: I enjoyed reading that, but if I live through today I am most certainly dead tomorrow - with one more shot of my ability I will know the zombie status of every player in the game. I wouldn't count on getting results for my ability tomorrow.
Still trying to decide between HW/Capth/Serela. My better half is calling for HW's head, I should note; I'm still not entirely convinced he's scum myself.
-
Oh, if the above implication wasn't obvious, lynching Bardiche today is a completely stupid thing to do and I won't even consider it.
-
PX, I'm going to be honest with you.
I'm certain you're town now because there is no way your scum buddy would not have corrected you or held you back a bit, but your logical methods are flawed.
I assume the radio I received was just a standardized PM given out with any radio. You would have gotten the same message about it using up your night action, in spite of you being vanilla. Each person gets one action per night, and passing the radio was confirmed as a night action. Furthermore, this partially had to do with the fact that radios can be spoken through at night without using up an action, so a player can use his radio and pass it in the same night.
Bard - The primary suspects today are me and Huh What. I'm assuming that won't change. The fact that I'm suggesting the tactics that I am with roles means that I'm certain I can prove one if not both of us town.
And by the by, you just proved exactly what I said before - no matter what we do in our scum hunts, we should lynch you today. That will give Edible another chance with his test, and let us do some role confirmation. I'm not sure why you are suggesting that we would lose if we lynched you, unless there is another part of your role you want to reveal.
From an information perspective, lynching you is the best option. As you confirmed, if we don't, we will not get a go at an Edible scum pair. We should still scum hunt naturally, I'm merely suggesting the best course of action for the night while we do it. Strategy is our friend, and the lack of it here is annoying. Since we lose if town is wrong, and town still gets both scum with my method if town is right, the fact that I'm suggesting what seems like the best course of action and being labeledscum for it is annoying.
There is no reason why I should have been the one to suggest you were the safest lynch for tonight, and that a miss-lynch would lose us the game. That should have been accepted. If we are going to lose from a bad lynch, we might as well take the only certain good lynch and use the extra time to find scum. (Furthermore, we need two scum to utilize Edible's ability.)
The most immediately scummy looking player from my perspective is Dormio, because she not only was opposed to my tactics while offering none of her own, but she was actively opposing the concept of tactics altogether. Once again PX gets points for trying to keep up with tactics and form them himself, even if I find them flawed and his enthusiasm to immediately vote a liability. The real problem is that I'm not sure what to think of anyone.
Bard - when I said you looked scummy, I made a list of things you did that hinted that you were scum. I'm a bit suspicious, so I tend to look at both sides of every coin. In your case, everything you said you did works out if you were scum except for the Affinity kill.
I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe any mod would wrangle their game so that town can win the game by sheer virtue of its roles rather than its efforts to scumhunt, and that you would suggest this is the case and that town should take full fledged advantage of it seems downright silly to me.
The mod said the roles are experimental. I figure there's probably imbalances to be found.
Capt H, again, why are you suggesting town not scum hunt nor lynch scum on LYLO, in favour of eliminating a third party and playing a role game?
I'm suggesting that if town has a way to confirm it's suspicions, it should do so, rather than enter blind. If a third party has to bite the bullet to give town proof of scum, what do I care.
The Huh what/me pairing is the obvious one. I can both prove it wrong and clear at least one of us if I lynch you first. If I'm lying, town still gets to kill both me and huh what with plenty of time since neither or us could attempt a night kill (taking us out of Lylo), and Edible will have either Huh what or me cornered.
Using your lynch we can disprove the existence of a likely scum paring and either prove the innocence or guilt of one or two townies through Edible. Through your help if we are wrong today we lose, but through your lynch if we are wrong today we will know we were wrong and still be able to win.
-
Then change plans. If huh what isn't lying about his role, then Dormio block Bardiche, Neo passes his radio to Edible, huh what keeps his, and you should be protected for the night.
-
Hmm. When we lynch whoever our intended target is today, can Dormio just roleblock Bardiche if we hit town instead of scum? That will at least prevent us from losing.
@PX: I enjoyed reading that, but if I live through today I am most certainly dead tomorrow - with one more shot of my ability I will know the zombie status of every player in the game. I wouldn't count on getting results for my ability tomorrow.
Still trying to decide between HW/Capth/Serela. My better half is calling for HW's head, I should note; I'm still not entirely convinced he's scum myself.
Edible - Even if we block Bard, scum know not to go after him. We can't block both scum and Bard. and Bard will vote with scum for an automatic victory, since there will be three townies one our said, and two scum and Bard that fulfill their win conditions together on the other.
If we lynch town today, we lose.
-
Actually Edible, we can absolutely either get you through tomorrow or have a certified scum tomorrow.
Part of my plan to use up night actions tonight was to have Neo give her radio to huh what, and huh what give his radio to you. Then you will have huh What's protection, which means if you die, Huh What is scum. So we either have you alive for tomorrow or proof that Huh what is scum.
Unfortunately, if town dies that plan won't work. It should work fine if scum or Bard die though.
-
Hmm. When we lynch whoever our intended target is today, can Dormio just roleblock Bardiche if we hit town instead of scum? That will at least prevent us from losing.
I can only change targets during the day.
When the flip is shown night occurs so I'll have gone to sleep unlike you other suicidal insomniacs.
Anyway.
capt. h: I like how you just completely disregard PX's argument as flawed.
Why? Because it conflicts with your own theory?
Also, you know what tactic I suggest we employ?
The one where we actually hunt for scum instead of arguing about roles and the setup until days end with relatively little happening.
As I've said before, as far as I'm concerned, Bardiche is vanilla town seeing as he's currently a vegetable through drug misuse and there's no reason to lynch him in favor of, you know, actually trying to get scum.
Also, huh what appears to be missing. :/
Attempting to make posts at 6am, after having been working on assignments until 2am is not fun at all.
Oh well, time for super fun Thursday.
-
I'm here, albeit not particularly actively. I don't have anything to say because the game devolved into "plan the best route to victory via roles" and that is generally uninteresting to me. Pretty much everything has been already covered, I believe.
I don't particularly want to desert my alignment, though, so I'm working on a post/vote, but it's pretty meaningless at this juncture.
-
One more thing that occurred to me before I go.
capt. h said as much that his plan is reliant on taking out a zombie today.
We kill a zombie first.
Yet he keeps pushing for us to kill Bardiche, who even he believes is a third party.
???
-
I'm here, albeit not particularly actively. I don't have anything to say because the game devolved into "plan the best route to victory via roles" and that is generally uninteresting to me. Pretty much everything has been already covered, I believe.
For someone who is probably going to get lynched or shot tonight, you're awfully not-caring.
Can we assume that you're scum and are turning yourself in, or what?
-
Bluh. I meant to get this out earlier in the day (I think Serela can confirm this considering how I sent him a radio message implying that I had this intent), but then the role shenanigans kicked in and I ended up completely lost. If somebody could post a tl;dr version of the current plan for convenience, that would be appreciated.
##Vote Edible
I'm really not buying into this "hey guys, here's the alignments of half the entire game, have fun winning systematically" bullshit. Given how avidly Edible claimed that he had no extra shots yesterday, it really seems to me that his claim earlier today was pulled out to counter me if I did indeed find out that he left his house. I do not believe that he only made said claims to dodge the nightkill, considering that he would have been the best target for any defensive role that night, and even then, scum might have chosen not to kill him for WIFOM reasons the following day. It does not help that I can not really see Serela as scum, especially given my role.
It should be noted that provided scum knew about the potential for 8p LYLO with what I assume is only 2 scum alive, his claim makes even more sense coming from a scum PoV. Since they were probably assuming that Bard was town at the time, killing off Schezo early for believability then slowly eliminating the rest of the list would have been an effective gameplan for quickly finishing off the town while driving discussion away from Edible's final buddy. Even the claim at the beginning of today seems like an attempt to secure a Bard lynch and let scum cruise through LYLO easily for a succesful outcome.
One thing I find particularly interesting about the buckest list is that even though Edible claims that Pesco chose to use the night action, the targets do not even remotely match up with who Pesco was gunning for at the end of D1. Pesco believed in a scum!Zak fairly strongly, so why did he not test Zak's blood on N1? It should also be considered that K4U felt Serela was kind of scummy, and Pesco evidently agreed with her, seeing as he claimed to be AOK with a Serela flip. However, Serela did not pop up on the list of players tested for blood either! The only players that make sense on Pesco's blood test list are myself and Shadoweh, and Pesco had not even mentioned the other three players on D1. Kilga as a target perhaps would make sense following Conqueror's flip, but the other two seemingly come out of nowhere and I can not see why Pesco would have chosen them over the two people he actually suspected. As a result, Pesco's bucket list seems to just be a list of the most talkative players for easy elimination + a bus-able buddy for believability. That way, even if the gambit failed and Edible was outed early, he would have at least likely killed some of the more prominent townies before his lynch.
tl;dr I think Edible's role is a lie. Even if there are experimental roles in this game, I would like to believe that they do not render the game devoid of scumhunting once they are in play.
-
I'm here, albeit not particularly actively. I don't have anything to say because the game devolved into "plan the best route to victory via roles" and that is generally uninteresting to me. Pretty much everything has been already covered, I believe.
I don't particularly want to desert my alignment, though, so I'm working on a post/vote, but it's pretty meaningless at this juncture.
Nah, already tried that, the other townies seem determined to throw out the role and planning thing and bet it all on the next flip. Even if the game is all just planning, most the players are determined to avoid planning.
Especially Dormio.
Dormio - If the next flip is town, we lose. Even if Bard is a vegetable, we lose. Bard still has a vote, and scum still has a NK that they won't use on Bard. Bard is not on our side, and Bard's win condition is fulfilled if he blocks the lynch tomorrow.
And I think your tactic of ignoring roles and avoiding any plans for victory will lose the game for town.
The truth is, (and I want Huh What's opinion on this), I don't think there could be more than 1 zombie between me, Huh what, and Neo. I think we're assuming there is, and I would like to verify that tomorrow rather than guess today, since a bad guess loses the game.
One more thing that occurred to me before I go.
capt. h said as much that his plan is reliant on taking out a zombie today.Yet he keeps pushing for us to kill Bardiche, who even he believes is a third party.
???
I think Huh What is a zombie, but I won't know for sure unless Edible tests him.
I am not relying on taking out a zombie today, taking one out tomorrow would be fine as well. We still have four players and a day to confirm a townie with the radios.
Dormio - I don't get it. Your arguing with me not about scum hunting, but about applying logic problems to the game to uncover scum, and you are telling me not to use it.
-
Dormio - If the next flip is town, we lose. Even if Bard is a vegetable, we lose. Bard still has a vote, and scum still has a NK that they won't use on Bard. Bard is not on our side, and Bard's win condition is fulfilled if he blocks the lynch tomorrow.
I am not relying on taking out a zombie today, taking one out tomorrow would be fine as well. We still have four players and a day to confirm a townie with the radios.
Uh huh...
I think Huh What is a zombie, but I won't know for sure unless Edible tests him.
THEN WHY DON'T WE LYNCH THE PERSON WE THINK IS A ZOMBIE?!
-
The truth is, (and I want Huh What's opinion on this), I don't think there could be more than 1 zombie between me, Huh what, and Neo. I think we're assuming there is, and I would like to verify that tomorrow rather than guess today, since a bad guess loses the game.
If Edible is telling the truth, then how could there not be more than 1 zombie between the three of us? <_< Barring a Godfather, anyway, but I think Hourai already had that covered.
I think Edible is scum, so I don't believe it matters. If he isn't scum, then the scumteam is you/Serela assuming there isn't some major bastardry going on.
I am not relying on taking out a zombie today, taking one out tomorrow would be fine as well. We still have four players and a day to confirm a townie with the radios.
We are in LYLO. We need to kill a zombie today, otherwise we lose. <____<
Hence why I want Edible dead. His role seems like a gambit to secure a town lynch in LYLO for scum.
-
If Edible is telling the truth, then how could there not be more than 1 zombie between the three of us? <_< Barring a Godfather, anyway, but I think Hourai already had that covered.
I think Edible is scum, so I don't believe it matters. If he isn't scum, then the scumteam is you/Serela assuming there isn't some major bastardry going on.
We are in LYLO. We need to kill a zombie today, otherwise we lose. <____<
Hence why I want Edible dead. His role seems like a gambit to secure a town lynch in LYLO for scum.
We only need to take out a zombie OR a third party. Either will survive us until tomorrow. If we aren't completely sure, we can kill the third party and at night, and you and Neo toss your radios while Dormio guards me. Then if there is a kill, none of us could have committed it, meaning at least one zombie would have to be outside us three.
I was going to rely on Edible to determine if one of us three was a zombie though... the plan doesn't work nearly as well without Edible's role.
-
while Dormio guards me.
I'm a roleblocker, not a guardian.
Seriously, I even went ahead and listed my abilities so that it was nice and easy to read, yet you still get it wrong.
Anyway, I'm off to uni now.
-
How can Dormio guard you? He's a roleblocker, not a guardian.
PX's comment re: vanillas have no night action so how can you know it blocks a night action makes sense.
-
I'm a roleblocker, not a guardian.
Seriously, I even went ahead and listed my abilities so that it was nice and easy to read, yet you still get it wrong.
Anyway, I'm off to uni now.
I meant like a prison guard, not a body guard.
Off topic, but I'm rather curious what the term "Off to uni" means.
-
Given how avidly Edible claimed that he had no extra shots yesterday
I avidly claimed this, huh? Source please.
Furthermore, your point about Bard makes no sense whatsoever. Check my stances on Bard yesterday, following his killed-UK claim. I've also gone on record today multiple times saying I both believe his claim and don't want him lynched.
Dormio - If the next flip is town, we lose. Even if Bard is a vegetable, we lose. Bard still has a vote, and scum still has a NK that they won't use on Bard. Bard is not on our side, and Bard's win condition is fulfilled if he blocks the lynch tomorrow.
You seem confused, and should probably check your math.
8 alive, and we're currently gunning under the logical premise of 2 scum and 1 third-party, so 5 town.
We mislynch = 4 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party.
Scum kills = 3 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party.
Bard kills a town = 2 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party.
However, if Bard doesn't or can't kill, we're back to 3 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party assuming a mislynch. 6 alive means 4 to lynch. Even if scum AND Bard hop on the same wagon, it's still 3-to-3; they can't quicklynch.
Additionally, your Serela-check won't work because as PX has pointed out, passing the radio can be done alongside another night action. I'm still not sure how you came to the conclusion that passing a radio = townie.
You've been making a bazillion weird mistakes this game, and I'm starting to think it's due to an overabundance of information... and access to a quicktopic.
-
It means he has a life. And has to go to school for the next couple of hours.
-
I avidly claimed this, huh? Source please.
Furthermore, your point about Bard makes no sense whatsoever. Check my stances on Bard yesterday, following his killed-UK claim. I've also gone on record today multiple times saying I both believe his claim and don't want him lynched.
You seem confused, and should probably check your math.
8 alive, and we're currently gunning under the logical premise of 2 scum and 1 third-party, so 5 town.
We mislynch = 4 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party.
Scum kills = 3 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party.
Bard kills a town = 2 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party.
However, if Bard doesn't or can't kill, we're back to 3 town, 2 scum, 1 third-party assuming a mislynch. 6 alive means 4 to lynch. Even if scum AND Bard hop on the same wagon, it's still 3-to-3; they can't quicklynch.
Additionally, your Serela-check won't work because as PX has pointed out, passing the radio can be done alongside another night action. I'm still not sure how you came to the conclusion that passing a radio = townie.
You've been making a bazillion weird mistakes this game, and I'm starting to think it's due to an overabundance of information... and access to a quicktopic.
You seem to trust Bard a heck of a lot more than I do. 3-3 means that WE can't lynch. They can just kill us off one-by-one each night. It's an auto-win condition.
And it's really weird you missed such an obvious logic flaw. You should have been able to see that.
And Edible - You are incorrect. Passing the radio CAN NOT be done with another night action. Neo and Huh What can both verify that the radio pass is the night action.
-
You're missing a huge flaw there.
Bardiche can vote town, so it's 4-2.
-
You're missing a huge flaw there.
Bardiche can vote town, so it's 4-2.
Bard is the survivor. His job is to survive. His best chance at doing so is to team up with scum if we miss-lynch because otherwise, scum might target him.
In this game, I trust Bard to do something selfless and risky as much as I trust scum - not at all, because he shouldn't and it is absolutely not in his best interest.
-
Except for the part where I don't know who is scum and who is town, and so at best I can work with town to see about getting a victory - moreover, the scenario assumes I will hit town and not scum during the night, which again I have no way of telling and, what's more, I can only kill who I vote. If I vote someone who is town today, you can lynch me to prevent me from riding out a scum-survivor victory. I cannot kill anyone as it stands, unless I vote someone, and I will not vote someone unless I am absolutely sure town will want them killed.
If you lynch scum today and I kill scum tonight, I win as well. Why not throw my chips in with town?
-
At this point, I give up. I'm not discussing logic anymore
I've kind of been hoping that one scum was hidden from Edible's list. But I just don't see Huh What/Neo, and I don't see two roles that could hide from Edible in one game
Now, here's what I know:
Edible - To believe him I either have to believe Huh What and Neo are a scum team, or that there is a player outside of Edible's list that can't be tracked by Edible. Now myself and Huh What are the most likely scum team in this case, but Dormio can verify my side while Huh What's radio pass proves his tonight. I'm taking Bard's word at the moment, because I'm tired of being paranoid about it. Also somewhat frustrated with due to some basic logical errors and disagreements, namely, didn't see a risk in the 2-1-3 that would happen if we lynched town, and that can give Bard certain victory if scum claimed.
Edible's list:
Edible's list contained four intelligent players and Schezo. It contained the MVP of last game, the two most intelligent surviving posters of day 1 (Huh What and Kilga), and Bard, who is good at sounding intelligent, started posting a lot later and making good points, and feels scummy enough to be scum. He started by gunning down Schezo. This was logical, as Schezo was the most likely. However, his other picks weren't. We had Colt, Zak, PX, Dormio, and Schezo, who all have the appearance of scum at some level, and none of which contribute as much as Bard, Kilga, Shadoweh, or Huh What. But Edible went with Schezo alone from the scummy, low value/quantity content posters and picked 4 players that had high value as townies. I agree; this list is suspicious, and I've been suspicious of it for a while, but I didn't want to believe Edible was scum because he made it easy. But now, I have to pick between two untrackable scum or Edible being very good scum. I went with the former for a while; I think I was wrong. Edible is very good scum.
Edible's second list - Outcome doesn't make sense from my perspective. Bard set off the detector, but at least one of the other players has to be scum if we believe Edible. If we believe Edible, then Edible is not scum, and we assume Neo is not scum. Proving that huh what and I aren't a scum team will be easy enough. Therefore, either Edible or Neo is scum or there is a cloaked scum. I think we can disregard the latter suggestion.
Bard: Sorry (if we make it?). I'll apologize when town wins.
Huh What - Very similar thought process to my own. Relatable. Final straw to change my mind - thought he was scum for a while and Edible had an untrackable scum. Also very easy to check tonight - if this isn't the last day of the game, he should be checked tonight. I knew it couldn't be the last day unless we lynched town specifically, which is why I fought so hard to make sure I wasn't lynched - it would just be embarrassing to lose town the game by dying first. Needed to make sure he got lynched first as a result. Now it doesn't particularly matter if he flips scum and you lynch me immediately after, partially because I'm tired of assuming Bard will take the safest route to win rather than the fastest. It's also very easy to verify whether he is linked to me or Neo, and we should do it tonight. If we catch scum with this lynch, his and Neo's radio passes should verify that they aren't scum and if we don't, Dormio's block will make sure that me and him aren't scum team. Recall that forcing scum not to lynch (even in scum attempts to fool town) is a good thing, as we can't lose that way unless we kill ourselves.
PX - Yeah, for a while I thought he was scum, but I changed my mind. I think he's the second most obvtown here. It's partial gut, but also partially because I can't quite imagine him having a scum buddy anymore, considering the great lengths he went to trying to show that my methods for attempting to prove townies town were flawed and that made me scum. Doesn't quite keep up with my logic, but tries to if only to prove it wrong, and I appreciate it. Huge liability in Lylo - votes too fast, and I disagree with his reasons for voting for me.
NeoSerela - The most obvtown here. If her puppet shows are ploys to avoid suspicion, they worked on me. I think she could have used the radios a bit better though.
Zak - The most unimaginative role in the entire game, to the point where I wonder if it's just a cover. Completely unverifiable at this point. Rediculous amounts of inactivity. Don't actually know enough to make a judgement. My gut tells me he's guilty as sin, but my actual experiences with him gives me a better impression - one of the few players that understood how voting a townie today could guarentee town loss under Bardiche's win condition, if he's not feeling merciful.
Dormio - Extremely frustrated with. Completely disregards arguments involving the use of roles to establish innocence and evidence. Somewhat outspoken against discussing role tactics at all. Posts relatively short fragments that are hard to sift through and contain little content. Somewhat anti-town behavior, and a high second place scum pick against Edible. Your opinions may vary.
-
Votes too fast? 1 vote doesn't do much if it requires 5/8 to lynch with 2 scum left.
-
Votes too fast? 1 vote doesn't do much if it requires 5/8 to lynch with 2 scum left.
I mean you kind of rush in with a vote without explaining it all that well. It's a bit of a concern, especially above when you voted for me because of my logic arguments - I like logic puzzles more than ambiguous interpretations, and I'm kind of annoyed at the reasoning you had behind your arguments against me. Like this:
*facepalm* If there are two scum, and you're scum, and you're blocked, then the other scum can simply do the kill. Now die scum!
##Unvote
##Vote: Capt. H
It's a little dangerous to vote like this, especially considering that half the plan was to use up night activities so that scum couldn't night kill. The plan was to eliminate the possibility of me and huh what being on a scum team together by verifying one busy and the other blocked. Especially dangerous way of voting in lower numbered Lylo, where the townie may themselves attempt a ploy (Looking at you, Edible).
-
Dormio, will you roleblock me tonight or do I get to act? :[
-
Ugh.
This is too much thinking, I swear. I'm getting near a point where I just want to lynch someone and get on with it.
K, coming back to mafia with a fresh mind. What shall I come up with?
2 scum 1 third party 3 town is not game over. It just isn't. No matter how you look at it. Take another townie out of the equation and yes, it is, and that's why we're in LyLo; lynch a town, scumnk a town, bardnk a town, game over.
Bard nking if we hit town risks GAME OVER, so he should not do so. If we hit scum though... well, if we hit scum then we have a guarentee he'll be able to use his NK on n4 anyway, so we should save it till then. tl;dr BARD JUST SHOULDN'T KILL TONIGHT.
Bard is pretty much guarenteed to win at this point, actually, unless scum want to be jerks and nightkill him for the hell of it, to deny him his win. He can go for whichever side he feels like helping win, which I would hope is town.
Edible not lying means capt.h/huhwhat/serela are the only candidates for a scumteam, and I know I'm town. If either of Huhwhat or Capt flip town, Edible by his own testlogic must be lying (if you believe that I am town). Hey Dormio it'd be koolbeenz if you just went ahead and blocked Edible tonight. From what you have claimed, you can't change your target once it's nighttime; you said it's whoever was the one you were targetting in the day. Huhwhat has to throw his radio at someone if he doesn't want to be turbolynched if there is an NK tonight, so even if he's scum, don't need to block him, and capt.h will be lynched, so that covers things.
Still think Zak is most likely edible's partner if Edible's scum due to not thinking Zombie Biologist seems right at all.
-
Reiterating important points.
- Bardiche should not kill tonight if we lynch town, and then the game CANNOT end before D4.
- If either of Capt.H or Huhwhat is town, and you believe I am town, then Edible is LYING. We are the only 3 possible scum if he is not lying.
- I personally think that if Edible is lying, Zak is his most likely partner, due to not believing Zombie Biologist is real. But we can go over this later if we discover Edible is lying scum.
-
- If either of Capt.H or Huhwhat is town, and you believe I am town, then Edible is LYING. We are the only 3 possible scum if he is not lying.
If two of you three aren't scum, then my interpretations of my results are wrong, which means my role does more harm than good. I'd really like to think that isn't the case and we're not in bastard mod-land. The only other option is Bardiche being scum which I find to be, frankly, ridiculous at this juncture.
(Also if Zak is scum I will personally flip my shit after the game, just a warning.)
-
VOTECOUNT
capt. h (2): NeoSerela, PX
Edible (1): huh what
huh what (1): Dormio, PX
Not voting: Bardiche, capt. h, Edible, Zakeri
With 8 votes in play, 5 are required to lynch. 72 hours remaining.
-
I don't think Bard is scum - that would make 3, and he's a pretty amazingly powerful scum if he were.
You know, I'm a bit too trusting sometimes, especially of smart players. It's a weakness. And I've made it very clear that I found Zak claiming flavorcop after we already revealed our flavors was suspicious to me.
Suppose you were telling the truth. Suppose me and Huh What and Bard are all telling the truth.
Suppose that the reason your test came back negative was because of a particular role you tested.
We know that there was a traitor which could listen in on radios. What if there is a scum that can fake your tests?
-
What if there is a scum that can fake your tests?
hint his name was hourai
Seriously, it baffles me that you constantly suggest that HALF of the scumteam are immune to Edible's cop, PLUS Bard being a false positive. ):
Does it REALLY not seem more likely that, if Edible's tests are wrong, maybe he's actually, you know, lying scum?
-
hint his name was hourai
Seriously, it baffles me that you constantly suggest that HALF of the scumteam are immune to Edible's cop, PLUS Bard being a false positive. ):
Does it REALLY not seem more likely that, if Edible's tests are wrong, maybe he's actually, you know, lying scum?
See, it's my first game. And when people come to me with lines like:
If two of you three aren't scum, then my interpretations of my results are wrong, which means my role does more harm than good. I'd really like to think that isn't the case and we're not in bastard mod-land. The only other option is Bardiche being scum which I find to be, frankly, ridiculous at this juncture.
(Also if Zak is scum I will personally flip my shit after the game, just a warning.)
I just can't help having second thoughts.
Especially with the last vig and lynch, where both players claimed to be vanilla townies and warned us not to trust Edible right before we killed them. I admit I had some second thoughts with Schezo at the last minute that I didn't have when Kilga said somewhat similar things.
I agree with you completely though. Darn gut getting in the way.
-
Even with 3 town, 2 scum, 1 thirdparty. It would be 4 to lynch, but there would only be three townies, which would mean this would be a forced no-lynch -> Nightkill -> town loss scenerio. Whether or not we have Bardiche Shoot, it would still end the game. In fact, I'd rather have Bardiche shoot, just for the chance that he would hit Scum in case we miss it ourselves.
That said, there's really not much I have to add. Zombie Biologist sounds like a load of baloney to me, so I'm confident in Edible's Role. I'm not even sure why we're deliberating so much on night actions, since if we're wrong, that's just it for the game.
I'm ready to lynch HW or Capt.H, and no one else.
Cut: Bardiche pretty much claimed to be a false positive on Edible's tests. Hourai's role also proves that if Edible had investigated him, he would return a false negative. If you maintain that Edible and Bardiche are telling the truth, then you must also maintain that I, Dormio, and PX are town. Why are you being so incredulous with this logic?
-
I have half an hour before more lectures followed by last minute (literally) cram study session followed by a test.
Bardiche, unless a majority of who I think is town (not huh what/capt. h) wants me to block someone else, I'm just going to keep my drugs on you.
Uh, my mind is on the test.
I don't think I can really make anything of this right now.
I'll see what I can do when I get home.
... Which will be in around 7 hours.
-
I think in the offchance that we both lynch town and Bard misses scum, we should leave him blocked. Just my two cents. It at the very least gives us one more chance to lynch.
-
EBWOP: Zakeri - It'd be 3 town, 2 scum, 1 neutral, yeah? We could still get a lynch off at least.
But if we don't block Bard, we should have Caedo block one of the two we don't lynch.
-
Dormio - I don't get it. Your arguing with me not about scum hunting, but about applying logic problems to the game to uncover scum, and you are telling me not to use it.
No, I'm not liking your LACK of scum hunting.
Because you have spent the entire game doing nearly none of it.
And how is my telling you to "stop being so reliant on roles and pay attention to the ACTUAL GAME" me trying to eliminate all chances of victory.
Also, do you think I'm a zombie or not.
Because you're going on about the list, which if true, clears me yet you keep trying to portray me as a zombie for telling you to, you know, pay more attention to things that aren't setup.
Warning - Hello, zombies. Look at your post. Now back to mine. Now back to yours. Now back to mine. Sadly, this post is not yours.
-
No, I'm not liking your LACK of scum hunting.
Because you have spent the entire game doing nearly none of it.
And how is my telling you to "stop being so reliant on roles and pay attention to the ACTUAL GAME" me trying to eliminate all chances of victory.
Also, do you think I'm a zombie or not.
Because you're going on about the list, which if true, clears me yet you keep trying to portray me as a zombie for telling you to, you know, pay more attention to things that aren't setup.
Warning - Hello, zombies. Look at your post. Now back to mine. Now back to yours. Now back to mine. Sadly, this post is not yours.
Well, I'm pretty sure I don't believe Edible anymore; I was only believing him on the assumption that somehow a zombie slipped through the cracks. If we don't assume there is a living zombie that can get away from Edible's test, then I think Edible has to be lying.
Honestly, you're probably in my top three. PX is off the list for now, and if Edible flips scum then that shreds any suspicion of huh what and Neo. I'll be amazed if Bard isn't third party. That leaves Edible, you, and Zak.
-
While I think Edible is scum, we should have a backup plan just in case.
Dormio - If you have your role blocker on me, that should clear me.
Neo + HW - If Edible flips town, you absolutely must toss those radios that night. Declare your recipients into the radios on the night of the toss. Your recipients should be relatively confirmed non-scum, and not each other.
We do that, and we should get a much clearer picture of what's going on in the morning. Because if everyone is able to complete their night actions, it will mean that no more than one scum was in Edible's three.
Course if Edible is scum, this is all moot. We can still use the radios, but the plan would be to toss the radios to scummy players, forcing the scummiest players to use their night actions tossing radios, and then we can see if anyone dies.
-
Ugh.
This is too much thinking, I swear. I'm getting near a point where I just want to lynch someone and get on with it.
K, coming back to mafia with a fresh mind. What shall I come up with?
2 scum 1 third party 3 town is not game over. It just isn't. No matter how you look at it. Take another townie out of the equation and yes, it is, and that's why we're in LyLo; lynch a town, scumnk a town, bardnk a town, game over.
Bard nking if we hit town risks GAME OVER, so he should not do so. If we hit scum though... well, if we hit scum then we have a guarentee he'll be able to use his NK on n4 anyway, so we should save it till then. tl;dr BARD JUST SHOULDN'T KILL TONIGHT.
Bard is pretty much guarenteed to win at this point, actually, unless scum want to be jerks and nightkill him for the hell of it, to deny him his win. He can go for whichever side he feels like helping win, which I would hope is town.
Edible not lying means capt.h/huhwhat/serela are the only candidates for a scumteam, and I know I'm town. If either of Huhwhat or Capt flip town, Edible by his own testlogic must be lying (if you believe that I am town). Hey Dormio it'd be koolbeenz if you just went ahead and blocked Edible tonight. From what you have claimed, you can't change your target once it's nighttime; you said it's whoever was the one you were targetting in the day. Huhwhat has to throw his radio at someone if he doesn't want to be turbolynched if there is an NK tonight, so even if he's scum, don't need to block him, and capt.h will be lynched, so that covers things.
Still think Zak is most likely edible's partner if Edible's scum due to not thinking Zombie Biologist seems right at all.
I find this plan acceptable.
I really can't play this game anymore. It's too addictive, and it's getting in the way of other things - I can't stop thinking about it. lynching me is fine.
I am town. I don't mind hammering myself. I would like to do it soon if you go with NeoSerela's plan.
From a strategy perspective, if Edible is scum and we lynch him today, we have two lynches, which might be useful since I can't be sure if his buddy was Dormio or Zak. Likewise, if he is town you have two days to lynch me and Huh What. This is opposed to getting my flip now, in which case you will have only one shot at Edible's scum buddy, and two days to finish all of Edible's potential scum.
Naturally, if there is something funky going on in the game, where one of Edible's picks is scum and one isn't (due to some unseen factor in the roles), you may want to plan ahead.
Once again, I approve of plans that get me out of the game. It's a bit to addictive for me, and I plan to be minimally involved in the days ahead. You do not have to take my word that I am town, so I understand completely if you would like to lynch me today, and would not mind at all. After all, if the Doc is town, we lose. It doesn't matter whether you lynch me or him first - we lose anyway by all planned strategies, because both of them involve flipping me, and I am in fact town.
Good luck,
capt. h
-
LYLO, pseudo or not, seems rather quiet. :/
And what's with both the people I think are scum going "I give up and no longer care."? :/
Anyway, I've said my share about huh what and capt. h today, so unless someone has questions for me regarding them, let's move onto some other people.
Bardiche: I'm believe his claim of third party, I thought he was a third party before he claimed it.
Is he a survivor? Is he something more sinister?
I don't know, and this is why I'd like to keep my block on him.
I know he's claimed survivor, but this is the game where you can trust no one but yourself.
Edible: Hi there person with ridiculous power.
Apparently Hourai and Bardiche's blood were meant to mess with your investigations but I dunno.
Your claimed ability is still pretty lol, considering you can catch almost all the zombies and the claimed third party with it pretty fast.
NeoSerela: Uh...
The only things I recall you doing is starting that whole radio mess on D1 and arguing with capt. h D3 about the whole "organize night actions to win" thing.
PX: Hasn't really been making any cases for the entire game.
Spent D1 mostly just defending himself.
D2 was spent yelling about Shadoweh for a while, then jumping onto the huh what wagon, before hammering Kilgamayan.
D3 was him just yelling at capt. h about various flaws and stuff in capt. h's night plan thing.
Zakeri: Who are you again? ???
-
@Dormio - I need to either get lynched or get knifed. Soon. This game is really interfering with my daily life - I'm constantly thinking about it. I can't get what I need to get done because I can't stop thinking of the different strategies, etc. If I can get killed in a way that benefits town, that would be preferable. I would prefer not to get lynched at all, but I need to get lynched or killed or finish the game soon because this game is just too distracting.
I still want to win, but I would rather not constantly think about it.
Because I want to win, I'll vote Edible for now. If he is town we lose, because you'll probably come for me next (although you ought to be able to check me tonight). But if Edible is scum, we have two opportunities to get his scum buddy instead of one by lynching him now.
##Vote Edible
But I really, really either need to get killed or to cut the next few days shorter than this one. And I kind of hope you get me to L-4, as I won't have to feel responsible for losing town the game if Edible is town. I'll make some dramatic statements about the status of this game, post some theme music, and hammer myself. If you push me to L-5 before I get the opportunity to do that, my contentless post will probably be a rude comment directed towards whoever pushed me to L-5 before I got to push the dramatics.
This is the only chance I have to get killed by town and not feel guilty about it, as it informs NeoSerela, huh What, and all the other townies that there are less than two scum off of Edible's list and that Edible is probably scum. If I don't get lynched today and Edible is town, getting you to kill me will lose town the game, and that would feel really awful. It would be to hard to leave the game later. And I need to leave.
Anyway, good luck, hope I get NK'd, and I hope 6 of us win.
-
EBWOP
GDI, I can't stop thinking about this game.
Dormio - I realized he's probably town, if Bard is 3rd party. Blocked Shadoweh's vig attempt on Bard, who was not a scum buddy if we all agree he's third party. Good thing to, since he holds Bard's leash, and letting go of it could win him the game if he were scum. Made himself look bad for no forseeable benefit, and intervened when lurking would have looked more town.
PX - Already covered why I think he's town. Not 100% sure. Feels too derp to be scum, but it actually feels like he does think I am scum. I might place too much gut in him, but I think he's town.
NeoSerela - I think we all agree she's town. If not, then she might be scum buddies with Huh What (hence the interlocking roles). But I really doubt it.
Huh What - Don't trust him. Honestly would think him the better lynch if Neo hadn't asked me to give him the radio instead of keeping it. He'll be able to prove his worth tonight.
Bard - Don't trust him, because he wins with whoever gains the advantage and brings him to victory faster. Probably the most reliable recipient of radios tonight. Only way for me to even consider him scum though is if he's scum buddies with Dormio.
Edible - Scum. The only way he isn't scum is if Neo and Huh What are a team, or if one of them teams up with Zak and Zak has a blocker.
Zak - If Edible is scum, this is his scum buddy. Gut says it can't be PX, and recollection made me realize Dormio made himself look really bad for no reason to protect non-scum. All the reasons have already been covered.
I mostly posted because I would rather limit the scum choices down to two before I suicide, and just remembered that I could. Now that I realized that I don't think you, Dormio, are likely scum, we have three days and three lynches. I flip town, Edible and Zak are probably scum, and should be lynched.
-
Zakeri: Who are you again? ???
You know me~
Role cop~
Investigated Kilgamayan~
tried to prevent a town lynch~
None of this ringing a bell to you guys?
Seriously, We have Edible, who immediately caught one scum (Schezo), has confirmed catching another (Bardiche) And probably has even caught a third (HW). Then you have me, Who actively tied himself to Edible through the investigation (Something scum would avoid doing, especially in Lylo when there's only two left) And spend the entirety of his posts on Day 2 actively trying to prevent a town lynch. Even after all of this, nobody has ever said anything besides "If edible is lying, Zak is scum." which is getting annoying because I have evidence that suggests Edible isn't lying in the first place, but very little has been provided to prove why Edible is lying, or even could be lying.
Mafia is not a game was "What if?" Mafia is a game of "How likely is it?". How likely is that that Edible is bullshitting his role? How likely is it that things would coincide as they have now if Edible was bullshitting his role? How likely is it that Bardiche is the survivor? How likely would it be for anybody else to be a survivor? How likely is it that Scum me would endorse Scum Edible? How likely would it be that Scum me would endorse Town Edible? how likely would it be that the reason Capt. H voted Kilgamayan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg587825.html#msg587825) despite the fact (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg587655.html#msg587655) that he had (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg587668.html#msg587668) a running (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg587694.html#msg587694), well thought out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg587706.html#msg587706) case on HW (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg587713.html#msg587713), was because he saw the potential for a wagon flip away from HW and onto Town Kilgamayan?
This game isn't that hard. You're just making the game harder for yourselves.
-
Zak, if you think Huh What is a more likely scum, then we can lynch him instead. Heck, I just want to get killed without losing the game for town.
Unfortunately, there is no way that both Huh What and myself are scum. Either Edible's test registered false, Neo is scum, or Edible is lying.
If we're talking about probabilities though, I'll build an Edible case for you. Edible (Pesco. Whatever.) selected four talkive, knowledgable players to test and Schezo. He wanted Schezo dead for certain. I think we all agreed on that. But I think Schezo was always just bait. He was the schmuck (sorry Schezo) among 4 players I would consider very valuable for their intelligence and the logic they apply to mafia. And his five players were strange picks as well; once again, I mentioned that there were a lot of less inherently valuable players he could have tested, who sorting through would not have caused nearly as much damage to town. Players who would probably be offended if I mentioned them by name. And he claimed a one day cop check. Even at the time, this power was considered, well, overpowered. And it had just enough slots in it that if every player were lynched, town would lose even with the assumption of two zombies.
Today, he tests 5 fairly suspicious looking players, and gets a negative. Bard confirmed that he would probably have set off the test if there was another zombie. Now, I'm going to kill myself off and flip town, and the remaing people not on Edible's list, Neo and Huh What, are not both zombies, as they plan to prove with their night actions.
Either there is another zombie blocking power in the game and only one of Neo or Huh What are zombies, or both Neo and Huh What are zombies, or Edible is lying. There is the chance that Bard is lying and there are only two very powerful zombies including him, but I don't see it. You don't have to believe me at all because I'm probably going to end up lynched anyway, and you can make the decision for yourself then. But at the end of the day, there is no way two of Edible's three are zombies without a Huh What/Neo scum team, and they are already coordinating their actions so that a night kill tonight immediately confirms them as town.
If we are talking about probabilities, what do you figure the probability that both me and Edible are town is? And if I flip town, what are the odds that Edible will be as well? And the reverse, if Edible flips town what are the odds that I will?
I think Edible is a zombie because I'm town. You think he's town because you think Huh What and I are a zombie team. If I were on Huh What's scum team, I would not have spent today trying to make sure he got lynched before you kill me, nor would I advocate a plan that would immediately implicate Huh What when I die. Nor would I have spent most the day barrelling through with plan after plan that would explicitly prove the impossibility of me and Huh What being a scum team together. Basically, everything I've suggested today in regards to Huh What only makes sense if I am in no way on a scum team with him, including this, since if we were both scum, my actions would implicate him and his flips would implicate me. If me and Huh What are not on a scum team, who do you think the most likely scum is?
-
which is getting annoying because I have evidence that suggests Edible isn't lying in the first place, but very little has been provided to prove why Edible is lying, or even could be lying.
If he isn't lying (and isn't scum with a zombie-finding ability), and Bard is a zombie third party, then his tests dictate that two of me, capt.h and huhwhat are zombies. If that turns out to be false, then either he's lying, or 2/4 scum are immune to the cop.
Mafia is not a game was "What if?" Mafia is a game of "How likely is it?".
Oh, but we ARE playing a How Likely Is It right now. It's just, uh, a bit more bathed in setup-playing then it normally is. Or a lot more then usual, really.
How likely is it Edible is scum with a zombie finding ability? The hell no. Bard being a zombie third party? Seems most probable. 2/4 scum immune to the cop? That would be ridiculous bastardry.
Okay, so then lets say Edible's test results are wrong. In that case, it's most likely he's scum trying to get town to lynch off his lists all the way until he wins the game, since otherwise I'd have to be wrong on one of those how-likely-is-its in my last few sentences. Well, you said he is indeed a Biologist. Zombie Biologist sounds, just as you said, like a load of baloney.
We have little reason to believe you are town at the moment (Trying to stop town from lynching vanilla Kilga does not seem strange at all for a scum trying to get townie cred), so it'd seem much more likely that Zombie Biologist is INDEED a load of baloney, which means that if Edible is scum, it's more likely you are his scumbuddy backing up his claim, then him actually being a Zombie Biologist.
This chain of Most-Likelys leads to a conclusion that if Edible is town, 2 of me/capt.h/huhwhat are scum. If 2 of me/capt.h/huhwhat are not scum, the chain of Most-Likelys dictates Edible/Zak is the most sensible scumteam. My interpretation of the avaliable information does not give any alternatives with a high enough likelihood to even be worth considering at this moment in time.
Yes, it's way more setup playing then should probably be in a mafia game. But if it's there to be used, and seems reliable enough, it should be used. Ignoring it would be detrimal to likelihoods of winning, from an uninformed-on-setup-intricities player standpoint.
-
Also, for hopefully obvious reasons, I would definitely want Edible to die before Zakeri in the case that capt.h flips town (Or we end up lynching huhwhat or even Edible today). I mean, if he DID flip scum Biologist, then, well, yeah.
-
Edible, I have a lot of concerns about you that have nothing to do with your role.
A note - I may have misled town a bit yesterday. My role allows multiple tests; I alluded to only one and didn't exactly scumhunt to the best of my ability to avoid a nightkill.
So what's your excuse today?
So far, your posts have had less useful or original content than any other poster in the game, are less memorable and have fewer original points than Dormio's, and frankly it doesn't look like you are making any attempt to find scum. The only useful thing you've done is post test results from your role, and that has shielded you so far. But the fact is that if it were not for your role, you would easily be my top scum pick. You didn't really have arguments for lynching Kilga, Schezo, or anyone on your lists, let alone good ones, and haven't exactly contributed to figuring out which players on your list are scum. You haven't done any scum hunting.
Now, I know you can fake a good role claim. Last game you lied about your role, claiming it was permanent bulletproof. This game you claimed you lied, and that you can cop check repeatedly. And honestly, the fact that you are good at lying about your role, plus the fact that you're playing more anti-town than any living player, makes me think you are scum. Next time you get picked for scum team, at least pretend that you're looking for scum rather than relying entirely on your role-claim.
-
VOTECOUNT
Edible (2): huh what, capt. h
capt. h (2): NeoSerela, PX
huh what (1): Dormio, PX
Not voting: Bardiche, capt. h, Edible, Zakeri
With 8 votes in play, 5 are required to lynch. 48 hours remaining.
-
EBWOP:
I have to admit this is a really good fake role claim though. In fact, it's too good to be real.
I'm more or less done with my reread. In the meantime, have some info.
Hi kids! I'm Edible and I have a very silly role.
I'm a biologist and had enough of my equipment left to perform one blood sample test. Sadly, my equipment was somewhat fruity, and I could only test folks en masse. Even more sadly, a certain rabbit used my ability for me last night.
Er, did I say sadly? I meant "thankfully," because I got a positive result. Hooray!
Five names were given:
huh what, Bardiche, Shadoweh, Kilgamayan, Schezo
Of the above, at least two are zombies.
That is all the information I have, but I feel it is important enough to share.
It's lighthearted, right up until the nice big letters where you lay down the shocker it great big red letters. Wonderful entrance into the game. I actually thought you quoted the mod the first time I saw it. But it's completely against everything I've seen about how you play mafia. I mean, setting up this claim clearly took a long time - you had to think up the humor, appear all innocent at the beginning, place the shocker sentence in the middle; I like how you belittle it in the last line to look humble. And the great big red letters are a nice touch. The only problem is that looking back, I just can't see you going through all the effort as town. Heck I can't even see you writing this - it's a completely different tone of voice than any other post you made in the thread. This is the kind of thing I would expect from PX.
You get an A on both the claim and the entrance, but you simply don't have the follow through. After all that effort to make us look at your role and believe you, you spend the rest of the game just not doing anything. I call your role a fake on these grounds.
-
capt.h brings up some good points against Edible.
Honestly, considering that Edible flipping town pretty much confirms capt.h/huhwhat anyway... yeah. Wheras, if Edible were to flip, say, Zombie Biologist, we would not be sure at all who is partner is, meaning every extra lynch or Bardkill we get would be valuable.
tl;dr Capt.h flipping town is risker to our position then Edible flipping town. And I'm having an easier time believing Edible is scum then capt.h+huhwhat, quite honestly.
I'm okay with Dormio drugging up Bard tonight since I don't want him killing tonight anyway. If the lynch is town, a kill could end the game; if the lynch is scum, it's best used on N4 instead. Bard killing N1, N3, and N4 could be considered power overuse.
I'd still prefer him drugging up Zak or capt.h though; Zak cuz if Edible flips scum but not Biologist, capt.h if Edible is town since Huhwhat has a radio he'll have to toss. But I guess any of those three targets, Bard or Zak or capt.h, would be okay enough.
Where was I? Oh yeah. ##Unvote ##Vote Edible
capt.hninja:lol hi
-
You haven't done any scum hunting.
This from the guy who switched to Kilga at the drop of a hat?
Please. You can try harder than that. Every single one of your posts has been absurd rambling and clueless leaps of logical faith; you are the complete definition of an active lurker. You talk a whole lot but don't say anything whatsoever.
Though to be fair I have been somewhat scarce today, but I won't make excuses as for why. Been trying to figure out which of you three to lynch, though it's pretty clearly going to be you or HW.
For anyone with a clue, scum's obvious last resort is trying to get me lynched. Is it a coincidence that every player I named as potential scum is voting me?
-
Ugh, I just realized I'm waffling again in my head.
I swear, if my case wasn't so clear and obvious, I'd be a rambling madman changing my vote every post like I did on D1. I nearly HAVE done that, actually, but then I look at my posts and go "oh yeeeeaeh, that's why I was thinking all that stuff. It makes sense again now."
I'll vote for either capt.h or Edible today. I'm perfectly fine with either. My mind can't settle on one or the other for more then a few hours.
-
I'll vote for either capt.h or Edible today. I'm perfectly fine with either. My mind can't settle on one or the other for more then a few hours.
For the sake of argument, do you see a capt.h/Edible scumteam possibility?
If not, your vote matters probably a lot more than you think it does.
-
If you flipped Zombie Biologist, it's not impossible. But I haven't looked at all into who might be your scum partner in that case.
At this point, what I see is a capt.h/huhwhat scumteam or a Edible/???? scumteam, with ??? likely being Zakeri if you do not flip Zombie Biologist, which I don't think you will.
I cannot decide on which one I want to lynch for more then a couple of hours without changing my mind. This is something I tend to do very often in mafia. It's just how my brain works. At least in Subterranean Animisim I was waffling between two people who were both scum.
I don't think the game will end tonight, so if we lynch the wrong one today, we should get the right one tomorrrow. Yes, I would like to hit the right one TODAY. No, I can't decide which one is right. I can't even remember my points from when I made my case on you. Holy crap it's 11 pm why am I not in bed I have to wake up at 6 tomorrow for school shit.
-
Yes, it's way more setup playing then should probably be in a mafia game. But if it's there to be used, and seems reliable enough, it should be used. Ignoring it would be detrimal to likelihoods of winning, from an uninformed-on-setup-intricities player standpoint.
You're right. There is way more setup playing then there should ever be in mafia.
Edible has the claimed ability to cop 5 people at once, and determine whether 2 or more are zombies, or 1 or less are town. His cop ability changed the entire dynamic of the game.
Let's compare it to the other cop roles in the game.
Zak claims the ability to cop a players flavor, while not knowing their alignment. He can only identify whether a role lied or not, and it wasn't useful for determining alliance.
K4U had the ability to cop a player, but only every other night. This came with a vig if she wanted to sacrifice the ability to cop.
Conq. had the ability to determine a player's alliance, but it came at the cost of his life.
Edible has the ability to determine whether there are two or more zombies in a group of five, and can do so every single night.
Edible is the reason why the game is so much setup.
In addition, have you noticed how weak his opinions are? This is the strongest attack he had on any player, and the primary reason for his votes yesterday:
-Kilga avoided discussion of Hourai like the plague yesterday, referring to him only in passing or when someone else mentioned him. This is less of a scumtell than I'd like it to be given the potential nature of Hourai's traitor role, but it is still rather worrisome especially considering his stances on Conq/Serela/Shadoweh.
-Bardiche placed the tying vote on Hourai to tie him with Serela yesterday, which gives him more credibility in my eyes. He was on huh what earlier in the day but I wasn't getting good vibes from huh what myself during the earlier parts of my readthrough.
-Schezo is outright bad. "I think Shadoweh is scum! *votes*" "I think Serela is scum! *votes*" (later on, with hourai leading) "I thought hourai was scum the entire time! *votes*"
My preferred course of action today would be to shoot Kilga and hang Schezo.
His post quality makes Zak look good, in spite of Zak having not said a word for a hundred hours. Most his arguments against Kilga aren't even arguements:
First argument:
huh
Why Bard/Schezo over Kilga?
Second argument:
Gut tells me Kilga needs to die.
Logic tells me Schezo does.
Both tell me huh what doesn't.
Neither tell me much about Bardiche at all.
Finally, I think there's a better chance of Shadoweh being a third party than town, but as long as she's acting in our interests I see no reason to do whatever it is we do to potential zombies. Dayvigs are easily verifiable and can be influenced by town as essentially a second lynch with no night phase, should the shooter play along.
I usually go with my gut over my logic, so I would pick Kilga for the bullet.
Further thoughts will have to wait given I should have gone to bed two hours ago.
Third argument was above, but forth argument:
Additionally, I'm worried that Kilga is pushing the "traitor = unknown to scum" thing as hard as he is. Upon further consideration, it seems obvious that Traitor Mad Scientist is <Alignment> <Role Name>, not <Role Name> <Role Name>. Hourai was a scum team member and therefore other scum knew who he was; I see no reason to doubt this anymore. This further brightens my opinions of huh what and Bardiche.
Fifth:
Grumble grumble weekends grumble. I won't be able to type up a more formative response until early-ish tomorrow afternoon, but I'd still prefer a Kilga lynch given previous discussions, or a Bard lynch because Shadoweh flipped town and it's incredibly hard to believe that there are three town vig roles. It is extremely likely he is, if not scum, then at least third-party. Huh what is not much of a priority for me ATM.
##vote Kilgamayan
He posts huge quantity, but he's the least useful player in the game, and his arguments against Kilga consisted entirely of one liners and tunneling. The only thing separating him from lurk scum is the way his role flipped the game on its head.
Here is his post history: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=19;area=showposts;start=0 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=19;area=showposts;start=0). For the entire time he has been here he has done nothing but implicate intelligent players making them turn on themselves, and saying less than Dormio while appearing to be more active than Dormio.
-
Clearly he has the help of a quicktopic, as his posts are wildly changing. Not to mention he's coming up with stuff about UK's role (Not K4U). Seriously, compared to how he's been the entire game, I cannot possibly see how he came up with this on his own.
-
Ahaha, you're seriously trying to deconstruct my Kilga case?
Fine, here's yours for comparison.
I paid the most attention to Schezo, so I got his radio when he died. I'm not sure about NKs.
##unvote
##vote Kilgamayan
... wtf
Last I checked, your case was on HW. What gives?
I believed his roleclaim.
Nice "case", guy.
-
EBWOP:
What a coincidence! You didn't even list all of my notes on Kilga!
And this puts me in a bit of a bind. My main issue with Kilga is that he mostly avoided interactions with Hourai and Schezo (and vice versa), which is usually a pretty big scum indicator. I'm not a huge fan of the huh what case, but I suppose it is significant that both Kilga and Bard are the major outliers of it. That leaves me with Bardiche, who I would think is, if not town, then at least likely unaffiliated with the scumteam. Probably the safest lynch, but the least likely of actually hitting scum. That combined with the fact that Kilga would rather himself be lynched than Bard doesn't help me either.
I'd be very upset if Kilga was a miller or something, but I guess he would've told us already. :(
Seriously, you need to step back and think about what you're saying before saying it.
-
EBWOP:
What a coincidence! You didn't even list all of my notes on Kilga!
Seriously, you need to step back and think about what you're saying before saying it.
I like how PX rushed in here to say that I must be scum, since there's no way I could come up with this on my own.
Tell me, is he your buddy? It's rare for someone's strongest argument to be that there is no way I could come up with this on my own.
I apologize, Zak and Dormio.
-
And if I recall, that was your exact reasoning of why you voted me.
-
You know, as I recall both you and Edible commented on how the radios prove nothing. Edible argued that scum could pass the radio and still perform a night kill, and you made that "when the seagulls cry" presentation. It was very amusing. And I thank you. If you had just kept your mouth shut, I wouldn't have even guessed you were Edible's scum buddy. I would have figured it had to be Dormio or Zak, and we may have lost.
This is my first game, and I'm a quick learner. My day one was incrediderp. My day 2 was derp. My early day 3 was pretty bad. And then I realized - why are we arguing about Edible's ability? Why don't we just look at Edible? I did the same thing I did to zak and Dormio, accusing them on the grounds of lack of content, and realized Edible was even worse then them when we wasn't giving us names.
-
Yes, because commenting on how your quicklynch plan was flawed is definitely anti-town. O_o
-
You know, your role claim really helped PX back on day 2, when I accused him of not writing his own posts.
post 519:
Dormio: This is the Apocalypse, true heros aren't afraid to die if they take the zombies with them. I believed Conqueror's roleclaim despite how crazy it sounded because it fit with mine. Don't worry, I'm not going to surprise shoot without saying who I want to eat lead.
huh what: I would count a wording mistake like that as a point against the person even if it's not the be-all and end all. The way capt.h presents his argument seems to be consistent with yesterday.
capt.h: That's a good start, but look for other inconsistencies in PX's posts if you want to take it further. It's not damning evidence on its own.
post 523:
I'm more or less done with my reread. In the meantime, have some info.
Hi kids! I'm Edible and I have a very silly role.
I'm a biologist and had enough of my equipment left to perform one blood sample test. Sadly, my equipment was somewhat fruity, and I could only test folks en masse. Even more sadly, a certain rabbit used my ability for me last night.
Er, did I say sadly? I meant "thankfully," because I got a positive result. Hooray!
Five names were given:
huh what, Bardiche, Shadoweh, Kilgamayan, Schezo
Of the above, at least two are zombies.
That is all the information I have, but I feel it is important enough to share.
That was a convenient little coincidence.
-
My roleclaim also "helped", uh, every player I didn't name in that list, for that day.
-
My roleclaim also "helped", uh, every player I didn't name in that list, for that day.
Some players more than others:
Post 502:
I don't particularly doubt your claim since it lines up with what I know, but your list doesn't actually say who you currently think is scummiest/the best target. More opinions, please. That said, I would obviously prefer a vig on Colt, or alternately PX or Zak.
What do you think of Colt, anyway? He was pretty much a worse PX on D1, and considering how much you seem to hate PX, some comments on him would be appreciated.
Post 518:
Screw the lecture.
Anyway, my case on PX from D1 still applies.
PX has said pretty much nothing so far today.
Over the entire game this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584933.html#msg584933) is the only real case he has made.
Shadoweh: My opinion on Shadoweh has changed since the roleclaim, since it seems like it would be a pretty silly claim to make if she was scum.
What's with people and their suicidal roles though?
Argh, battery is starting to run low.
~3 hours until I get home.
By the way, it was wise clearing Zak and Dormio with PX. They both look inherently scummier than PX does.
-
... What?
-
EBWOP:
Look, I'm gonna say this again as an aside with a little more detail.
If you're town, you're doing a piss-poor job of scumhunting; what you're doing is basically stringing nonsensical information together in your head and laying it out without explaining it, if it even made sense to begin with. All that does is reap unnecessary confusion amongst other townies.
If you're scum, well, the above also applies and you probably shouldn't do it because it makes you look, uh... scummy.
-
Alright, I'll tie PX and you together then.
Both you and PX presented arguments that using the radios to clear townies was a flawed method in spite of never having owned the radios.
When the arguments started piling on in favor of vigging PX day 2 and several players voiced him as their top pick, you turned the game around by revealing your role.
And PX just attacked me for attacking you too well.
Therefore, I think there's a good chance you two are scum buddies.
-
Both you and PX presented arguments that using the radios to clear townies was a flawed method in spite of never having owned the radios.
Quick, prove that if you send a radio at night, you can't do anything else.
Wait, you can't? And the only people alive who've touched the radios are you three, who huh what claimed were both town in his first post on day 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584844.html#msg584844)?
Well I'll be darned.
When the arguments started piling on in favor of vigging PX day 2 and several players voiced him as their top pick, you turned the game around by revealing your role.
"Piling on" implies more than one; "several" implies more than one. huh what, per your previous quote, preferred shooting Colt over PX (or Zak). Caedo mentioned he had a case on him, but didn't mention shooting; it seems more people were making fun of you for thinking PX was scum based off the fact that he referred to himself in third-person once.
And PX just attacked me for attacking you too well.
Pretty sure PX's been attacking you all day.
-
Don't forget day 1.
-
Don't forget day 1.
I forget a lot of things about D1, given I wasn't there for it. What specifically are you referring to?
-
Oh, just disproving that my vote and jump on him was entire unwarranted. Since he was my first serious vote.
-
I like how I can leave a tab open for around 5 hours and not be cut.
Anyway.
Ugh, the stuff since my last post is so confusing to go through.
At this point I am hopelessly lost.
Let's see if this next re-read helps.
huh what has basically been pushed out of our minds for now with the "deal with it later" thing going on.
I still want to see huh what flip. :/
But apparently that isn't happening.
Instead let's look at Edible and capt. h some more.
Firstly, Edible.
Uh, as far as I can tell, Edible has done very little to no scum hunting this game.
Instead he decided to base most of his arguments on his ridiculous-if-true role.
Also, as said before, infinite masscop is lolwut.
capt. h.
Well, D1 and D2 were spent derping as far as I recall, and D3 up until now was spent yelling about radios.
Now he's on the whole "Edible is scum" thing, forgetting about earlier claims that huh what was a zombie.
Let's throw in PX for some kicks.
PX has spent the entire game doing... nothing.
His only contribution seems to be arguing against capt. h alongside Edible today.
Also, PX and Zakeri had their avatars changed. :V
Uh, 11pm and it's been a long 2 weeks and I can't think.
Hopefully things will be better when I look at this again after some DotS sleep.
-
Possible scumpairs are capt.h+huh what, Serela+huh what, or capt.h+Serela. The thing that bothers me is all three have been tied together so well for a variety of reasons that it's kinda hard to narrow down who I want dead the most. I wonder if it really is possible that we have three scum.
-
Now that I've thought about it again... k.
Knowing that I am town (which most people seem to agree I'm obvtown), either huhwhat/capt.h HAVE to be scum or Edible is lying and therefore most likely scum. We have been over this a ton.
I have revised my opinion of what I want Bard to do tonight, because my previous statement is just so blaringly obvious at this point.
I want to lynch capt.h, and if he's scum, we'll duh lynch huhwhat D4 so Bard doesn't need to kill and his kill ability has some bad effect if he overuses anyway (like maybe turning him into a zombee or serial killer idk ), so. If huhwhat successfully passes the radio and there is still an NK, I'm going to stare at the game and stare and stare and wonder if it's capt.h/edible scumteam or wtf. And hope I don't get lynched.
If capt.h flips town, then I want Bard to just kill Edible no matter what, since we would still have to get his partner afterwards.
Bard, I want you to vote Edible since you say you must vote someone to be able to kill them. Dormio, please don't block Bard.
##Unvote ##Vote Capt.h
any objections with my latest ramblings ??? `-`
-
Bard, I want you to vote Edible since you say you must vote someone to be able to kill them.
and as long as it allows you to kill him overnight if needed then I don't care if you unvote him or anything, or if you vote capt.h afterwards to put him at L-1, or whatever
-
If it is the consent of everyone present, I will vote Edible to enable my kill on him.
-
Quick, prove that if you send a radio at night, you can't do anything else.
Wait, you can't? And the only people alive who've touched the radios are you three, who huh what claimed were both town in his first post on day 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg584844.html#msg584844)?
Well I'll be darned.
I'm a little insulted. One of us is town. Town knows how the radio works, and town could correct me at any point if I were lying.
Neo, I think we should kill Edible first, if only because we don't know who Edible's scum partner would be. And if it's Dormio, then we might have a problem, because he's the only player that can stop or control scum kills.
But I agree with the main premise; if Edible flips town, then I don't mind having Bard kill me no matter what. I've already bet the game on Edible being scum, and either way, if neither of us is scum town loses.
-
Although, on second thought I really do want out of this game. In fact, I'd like to not have to worry about it over the weekend, so if we could do this plan tonight that would be great.
-
Although, on second thought I really do want out of this game. In fact, I'd like to not have to worry about it over the weekend, so if we could do this plan tonight that would be great.
Then go vote yourself please.
-
Oh, and one last thing - If we do thins plan tonight, either Neo or Huh What are going to be the night kill, so they should really consider going back through the posts of PX, Dormio, and Zak and seeing which one was most indirectly benefitted by Edible's role declaration, who made sure that his role was believed and attacked people that attacked Edible; the typical scum help scum stuff.
Edible and Schezo both went with Hourai being known scum, so there a good chance the third scum will to. Personally, PX gave me some bad impressions just a while ago, and he can thank not being vigged by Shadoweh to Edible. They seems to have a lot of the same views and get along unusually well; better than any two other players I can think of. They also shared quite a bit of small talk; useless posts for the sake of filling the thread up and appearing active.
At the moment, my top scum buddy for Edible is PX. For one of you two, there won't be second chance to speak. Since I need to stop thinking about this game altogether, I don't mind a lost opportunity to look for clues, but you two might.
@PX - Am I at L-1 yet?
-
Well, no, you're at L-2 at the moment.
I'd like to have Bard vote Edible to be able to kill him before you die, though. Hey people, he asked if it's okay with us for him to do that, so tell himmmmmm
-
EBWOP - Also, I'd like for all of you to be done whatever preparations you plan to make by 3:30 a.m. thread time - that's about 11:30 where I live. Once I have confirmation that Dormio has blocked Edible instead of Bard, and Bard has cast his vote for Edible, I'd like to hammer myself, and I really don't want this game to ruin the rest of the evening. If you finish and I don't vote myself out by 5:00 am thread time (midnight where I live), feel free to finish the day without me. I was planning on going out, and may not be available.
-
@ Neo - you need confirmation from Dormio or this whole plan is pointless. Make sure Dormio posts that Edible is blocked and Bard unblocked as well.
-
Oh, and Edible, you should really post anything you want to say that won't directly incriminate you enough that we lynch you instead about how town should vote tomorrow, and manipulate town in any way you please. This will be your last chance.
-
No, go vote yourself to L-1 so we can find the scum who ninjalynches you.
-
VOTECOUNT
capt. h (2): PX, NeoSerela
Edible (2): huh what, capt. h, NeoSerela
huh what (1): Dormio, PX
Not voting: Bardiche, Edible, Zakeri
With 8 votes in play, 5 are required to lynch. 24 hours remain.
-
I'm okay with the plan for Bardiche.
Also: Mod, NeoSerela switched his vote to Capt.H somewhere in the middle of the last page. That said, it appears Capt.H is only at L-3, not L-2 like everyone above thought. I'll still be checking up every once in a while tomorrow, so I'll place my vote then.
-
If it is the consent of everyone present, I will vote Edible to enable my kill on him.
I'm present and I think that's a pretty silly idea. You do realize that if capt.h flips town and you then shoot me, the game is over?
Just pointing that out.
Let me put this another way - I would rather have town lynch me today and bard shoot no one than town stupidly agreeing to shoot a townie after capt.h gets lynched, because I'm not 100% sure of his alignment. At least you goons will get another day to actually find scum and I can wash my hands of a ridiculous situation where I've replaced into a game into an absurdly powerful role that's already been semiproven, have already have my claim backed up by a rolecop, and people still think I might be scum. Get your collective heads out of your asses, please.
Serela, that was a terrible idea and you should feel bad for even suggesting it.
-
I'm okay with the plan for Bardiche.
Also: Mod, NeoSerela switched his vote to Capt.H somewhere in the middle of the last page. That said, it appears Capt.H is only at L-3, not L-2 like everyone above thought. I'll still be checking up every once in a while tomorrow, so I'll place my vote then.
Derp, fixed.
-
Great.... Now I can't decide on a Capt. H/uh what or a Capt. H/Serela scum team
-
What is with you people.
Either way, I don't really want two nightkills to occur tonight.
But whatever.
Also. WHY DO YOU ALL WANT TO KILL YOURSELF SO?
Anyway.
You guys really aren't putting much onto the table.
I mean, I really don't know what to make of this.
Everyone claims town, naturally.
capt. h wants town to lynch him, then for Bardiche to shoot Edible.
Edible wants a lynch on either himself or capt. h and for Bardiche not to shoot.
NeoSerela and Zakeri want to lynch one and shoot the other.
PX wants capt. h dead.
huh what has vanished.
huh what's disappearing act seems to have worked pretty well, considering how nobody even seems to notice that he still exists.
And PX still isn't really doing anything.
Warning - Decide for Yourself
-
Edible:I've already explained this very clearly! ):
By information provided by your tests, the scumteam has to be 2 of me/capt.h/huhwhat. Or else you are lying. I know I am town. So if capt.h or huhwhat flip town, you are lying.
It doesn't really get any more clear-cut then that. If capt.h is lynched and flips town, you obviously need to die! At least, I'LL know that. And Huhwhat will as well, since he'll of course act as if he's town whether he is or isn't.
You do realize that if capt.h flips town and you then shoot me, the game is over?
yes I realize that if capt.h flips town then you are pretty much guarenteed scum
I'm surprised (if) you aren't realizing where this conversation is going, actually. If you think there's a chance capt.h will flip town, that means you either believe that I'm scum or your tests are wrong. If I'm scum then lolyeah, if your tests are you YOU'RE probably scum then lolyeah, so.
Fine, since no one wants to have Edible killed if capt.h flips town and confirms that Edible's tests are wrong (...well at least for me/huhwhat I guess ;_;) then we'll do it the normal way and just lynch him tomorrow. If capt.h flips town, that is. If he flips scum then we'll probably be lynching huhwhat, of course. But, you know.
-
What is with you people.
Either way, I don't really want two nightkills to occur tonight.
But whatever.
Also. WHY DO YOU ALL WANT TO KILL YOURSELF SO?
Anyway.
You guys really aren't putting much onto the table.
I mean, I really don't know what to make of this.
Everyone claims town, naturally.
capt. h wants town to lynch him, then for Bardiche to shoot Edible.
Edible wants a lynch on either himself or capt. h and for Bardiche not to shoot.
NeoSerela and Zakeri want to lynch one and shoot the other.
PX wants capt. h dead.
huh what has vanished.
huh what's disappearing act seems to have worked pretty well, considering how nobody even seems to notice that he still exists.
And PX still isn't really doing anything.
Warning - Decide for Yourself
I want to kill myself because I want out of the game. I can't stop thinking about it, and it's getting in the way of my sleep and my work.
If we lynch Edible, place your block on me, toss both radios tonight, and have bard kill no one, it means that if Edible is town and a kill still happens, then only one of us three is a zombie at most, and we have two undetectable zombies. However, we don't lose. That's probably the best option for town, since even if Edible is right we still win. It also confirms whether or not we are indeed in bastard mod land. But the problem for me is that I was hoping to be killed before day 4 so that I don't have to think about this game anymore.
If both me and Edible think that lynching Edible and killing no one today is the best option for town, then I say we lynch Edible.
-
...or we'll lynch Edible TODAY and either confirm that capt.h/huhwhat is the scumteam (If you're me and know I'm town, at least ;_;) or see that he's scum. That would work too.
oh capt.hninja stop ruining my EWBOP >:
-
...or we'll lynch Edible TODAY and either confirm that capt.h/huhwhat is the scumteam (If you're me and know I'm town, at least ;_;) or see that he's scum. That would work too.
oh capt.hninja stop ruining my EWBOP >:
Actually, the best part is that we don't need to know the scum team - we just need to know which scum team is the least likely. We can vote against the least likely of the three possible scum teams, and then kill the last two players one after another on the last day with Bard's help.
-
huh what's disappearing act seems to have worked pretty well, considering how nobody even seems to notice that he still exists.
Hi.
What exactly do you want me to say, assuming I didn't miss somebody asking me a question? Nothing has changed my mind about my Edible case, and I have a hard time buying Serela as scum. Same as before, basically. If an Edible lynch seems absolutely impossible, I suppose I'd be okay with offing capt. h instead, but definitely not Serela.
I've barely been following the night action shenanigans, but I'll probably send the radio to Zak if capt. h flips towns, leaving Serela to send his to Edible. If capt. h flips scum, then my target doesn't really matter since Serela would be the only real possibility for his buddy from my PoV, but I'd probably send it to Bard just in case. I also don't really think that Bard should hold his fire tonight, since if we lynch town then it's essentially our last shot at managing a win, and if we lynch scum we have a chance to narrow down the suspects or potentially win overnight (though the latter option is ignoring the possibility of a 5-man scumteam).
-
@Mod: Have player flips been full role flips, or is it possible that information has been withheld?
-
All information given has been true, but the full details of each role's function are not disclosed upon flip.
-
Phrased another way, is it possible for a player to have an ability not mentioned in the flip?
-
I'm going to assume that I shouldn't lynch myself in the next half hour, since Dormio hasn't actually said he's letting Bard open fire and we seem to still be talking about it.
If I flip town, your radio choices don't make any sense whatsoever. If I flip town Bard is undoubtedly the best recipient since he's third party and has no reason to lie, and if you pick scum then they can lie about it. Since me being town means Edible is scum (and will get shot tonight by your own plan), I don't agree with your decision.
-
We still have another day to act and discussion will surely pick up as we get closer to deadline. Don't lynch anyone, including yourself, until we've used all the time allotted to us.
-
Phrased another way, is it possible for a player to have an ability not mentioned in the flip?
No, any abilities the role has will be mentioned in the flip, even if the full details of how those abilities are used are not specified.
-
All I wanted to know, thanks.
-
If I flip town Bard is undoubtedly the best recipient since he's third party and has no reason to lie
More like Bard is the dumbest recipient since his kill is VERY valuable to town. If we're throwing radios around trying to make scum lose the nk having to toss it for not-being-confirmed-as-scum, we don't want to give a radio to someone we know is most probably NOT scum and has better things to do with their night action.
-
zzz
huh what and NeoSerela are the scumteam. Serela is the only one who could have given the radio results to Hourai, as he could not have done so himself. The counterclaim was an act. huh what is scum by virtue of ties to hourai, schezo, the radios themselves, and Serela. The fact that he also completely ignored my counterpoints against his Edible-case doesn't help matters, and Serela trying to convince town to destroy themselves doesn't help matters either.
Dormio, keep Bard drugged up. Zakeri, target Serela with your ability. I will check Serela, Bard, Dormio, PX, and you tonight. Scum can't kill both of us and we can therefore prove beyond a shadow of a doubt if she is lying.
##vote huh what
-
zzz
huh what and NeoSerela are the scumteam. Serela is the only one who could have given the radio results to Hourai, as he could not have done so himself. The counterclaim was an act. huh what is scum by virtue of ties to hourai, schezo, the radios themselves, and Serela. The fact that he also completely ignored my counterpoints against his Edible-case doesn't help matters, and Serela trying to convince town to destroy themselves doesn't help matters either.
Dormio, keep Bard drugged up. Zakeri, target Serela with your ability. I will check Serela, Bard, Dormio, PX, and you tonight. Scum can't kill both of us and we can therefore prove beyond a shadow of a doubt if she is lying.
##vote huh what
You had me with the mod's answer.
##Unvote
##Vote Huh What
-
Heh, that makes plenty good sense actually.
##Unvote
##FoS: Huh What
Not bringing to L-1
-
Weird stuff is happening, I'm confused.
Anyway.
What exactly do you want me to say, assuming I didn't miss somebody asking me a question?
I want to hear your thoughts on all the players.
This applies to everyone else, too.
PX is doing some weird FoS thing to huh what.
Care to elaborate on what that is?
Also, suddenly, everyone jumps onto huh what.
Edible asking the mod a question seems to have cleared him in everyone's mind.
Disregarding that it could just be a bluff or something.
-
Serela is the only one who could have given the radio results to Hourai, as he could not have done so himself.
Honestly, I'm pretty surprised no one even MENTIONED this yet. I think, at least.
I mean, I know it's not true, but everyone else isn't me and doesn't know that.
Anyway, sure, huhwhat dying is just as good as capt.h dying I guess, except that if huhwhat is actually town he has a useful ability unlike capt.h. But, whatever.
##Unvote ##Vote Huhwhat
I think there's roughly 11 hours left, if anyone is wanting to hold off on the lynch so we can use more of it. But considering we're going to have 120 hours again tomorrow, I don't particularly think we need it. Then again, I'm just really ready to see this day end already and see some flips >_>;
-
VOTECOUNT
huh what (4): Dormio, Edible, capt. h, NeoSerela (L-1)
Edible (1): huh what, capt. h, NeoSerela
capt. h (0): PX, NeoSerela
Not voting: Bardiche, PX, Zakeri
With 8 votes in play, 5 are required to lynch. 11.5 hours remaining.
-
It's like finally getting the cake I was aiming for since the start of the game.
-
PX is doing some weird FoS thing to huh what.
Care to elaborate on what that is?
FoS stands for Finger of Suspicion, which is used in place of a vote in many mafia forums (and somewhat rarely in this one) to show that you're either willing to vote that person or are, well, heavily suspicious of them.
-
As an aside, someone is going to receive radio B tonight, probably for the same reason I received it. I don't think that player will be scum. Once again, if you get your hands on radio B, declaring your name, declaring your target, and tossing the radio would probably be the best decision for you for reasons already covered.
@Edible - I like your night plan so far, but I don't think NeoSerela lied about her role. That is, regardless of whether she is zombie or human, she's probably a radio operator. I'm not confident flavor checking her will help.
-
I'm down with the plan.
@Dormio: You're still blocking Bardiche, right?
@Capt.H: Yeah, you're probably right. Then again, this claim was one of the ones made on Day One, and there's still the chance NeoSerela made a slight tweak to the role name.
-
5 hours left, L-1 Huh What
So... we're waiting for people?
-
This is incredibly silly.
##Unvote
##Vote huh what
-
HAMMER SHADDUP!
-
HAMMER SHADDUP!
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5755/edible4.png)
-
Hey Pesco (http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/HangedHourai/dwi.gif)
:colonveeplusalpha: Dear god, what have I done?
-
END OF DAY THREE
In a stunning last-minute turnabout, apparently guided by divine intervention, the town all suddenly decided that rather than any of the other lynch candidates that had been raised that day, it was huh what that ought to be lynched. Dormio, Edible, capt. h, and NeoSerela had him cornered, and as they discussed the day's events and prepared to finish him off, huh what took action first.
Stepping further back into the corner, huh what concentrated, began to contort. His teeth gnawed, his fingers grasped... and then his jaw spontaneously dislocated itself. Flexing his facial muscles, huh what stretched, and stretched. His jaw worked his way up his face, grasped onto his forehead, and as the town watched in horror, huh what ate his own brain!
huh what, Zombie Investigator, capable of finding out a player's role and getting a full report of abilities used by and against that player, has been lynched!
huh what (5): Dormio, Edible, capt. h, NeoSerela, huh what (LYNCH)
Edible (0): capt. h, NeoSerela
capt. h (0): PX, NeoSerela
Not voting: Bardiche, PX, Zakeri
You have 24 hours to send in your night actions!
-
START OF DAY FOUR
The town awoke to a horrible sight. It was the aptly named Edible, dragged from his room and eaten by zombies! His skull had been cracked open and his delicious scientist brains carefully scooped out so that not a morsel remained. An investigation of his body and belongings followed shortly.
Edible, Town Biologist, was killed during the night!
It is now Day Four! The town is in LyLo! The deadline is in 120 hours! With six alive, it takes four to hammer!
-
Alright, NeoSerela. Where is your radio?
-
Btw, I'm confirming that Capt. H is town. Therefore, game over.
##Vote: NeoSerela
-
Hold It.
Give me a minute, I should be getting a radio soon.
-
O.K., Here' what happened last night - I got the radio off of huh what last night. I reported into the radio that message, and then sent it to PX.
Neo sent me a message saying he was giving his radio to me. I'm still waiting for all the PMs to go out to see if I actually got it.
-
Serp should not have taken this long to copy/paste a PM saying you got a radio. If nobody claims it, then Neo still has it.
-
Waiting on two things.
1) Bardiche, did you submit a kill last night?
2) Dormio, did you keep Bard drugged up?
-
Edible does not appr-OH NO MY SPLEEN
-
@mod: Would a roleblock block any night kill attempts by the blocked person?
-
@mod: Would a roleblock block any night kill attempts by the blocked person?
Role information and resolution priorities are not public knowledge.
-
Alright then, I definitely did not get NeoSerela's radio last night.
##Vote: NeoSerela
By the way, I want to apologize for playing so badly. Especially to Edible.
-
The result I got was indeed "Radio Operator". This doesn't clear him, and I want to hear from Dormio and NeoSerela before we decide.
-
The result I got was indeed "Radio Operator". This doesn't clear him, and I want to hear from Dormio and NeoSerela before we decide.
Well, if she wasn't able to pass the radio then Dormio would be the only possible explanation.
It should be noted, however, that she was in fact able to send me a message with it.
Should I unvote until we hear back, or does it not matter?
-
I'd say the odds of having 2 scum that can quicklynch are pretty impossible at this point, so no. However, don't want someone to bring to L-1, so to be safe....
-
It shouldn't really matter, if you want to keep the vote.
-
Just to be safe...
##Unvote
As an aside, I just checked Dormio's last activity, and he is currently on.
-
Yes, I kept my block on Bardiche overnight.
Also, I said earlier that my block should prevent people from preventing nightkills.
Anyway, I'm at uni right now so I don't really have the leisure to read over this and gather my thoughts so I'll try to make a proper post when I get home in... 4 or 5 hours.
Warning - Mudamudamudamudamudamudamuda
Warning - ZA WARUDO.
Warning - Toki wo tomare.
Hurr durr I hate library internet.
-
Whelp, it's exactly as capt. h said. The mod PM states that tossing the radio uses up my night action :V Bastard mod, not using logic.
-
Btw, I'm going to have fun with this radio :V
-
You know, I was typing up a big post with thoughts on people and stuff.
Then I realized that nobody cares and this entire game is currently being fuelled by role shenanigans.
-
Yeah, it's not like the other 3 scum we've caught with legitimate cases.
-
PX, my kill wasn't enabled because:
1) I hadn't voted anyone. and
2) Dormio roleblocked me so all I could do was twiddle thumbs.
-
hi capt.h you aren't very good at reading pms ):
Hi passing my radio to capt.h who is pretty much guarenteed to be scum if it isn't a huhwhat/edible scumteam which would be silly. Except you, who won't get this message until morning, will likely pass it to him if you aren't him... whatever. Then I'll pass my radio to Edible. Tomorrow should be the final day anyway so this barely matters as long as I pass it to SOMEONE."
Then I'll pass my radio to Edible.
...but then he kind of died. >: The mod said I went back to his dwelling and got it back from where I left it.
...that doesn't exactly bode well for me. This would be a perfectly logical thing for scum-me to do so that I'd have an excuse and still get to nk. gdi
Anyway, I did indeed get a message stating that capt.h had Radio B and was giving it to PX.
I'm not entirely sure what to think now. The logic I've been using states that I'm the only possible scum at this point, but I KNOW I'm town. Either I logic'd something wrong or Bard does NOT TRIGGER EDIBLE'S TEST.
Since huhwhat flipped scum, that accounts for two scum in the first test. I know I'm town, and that Edible was town and therefore hopefully not lying about his test targets/results. The only logical explanation at this point for me, knowing that I am town, is that Bard does not trigger the test, and therefore one of the people we thought were confirmtown (PX, Dormio, Zak) is actually scum.
Zak... I have absolutely no reason to think he is scum. Huhwhat already flipped scum rolecop, as well.
That leaves PX and Dormio. Thank god this is something that we need to figure out the traditional mafia way at this point and no more friggin role shenanigans.
ALSO RIGHT BEFORE I FINISH THIS POST I ALMOST FORGET THAT IT'S ALSO LOGICALLY POSSIBLE BARD IS SCUM, but I still think he's third party. And he DEFINITELY NEEDS TO HAVE HIS KILL AVALIABLE TO USE TONIGHT IN CASE WE MISYLNCH. Actually, that in itself is reason to lynch Dormio. If me or PX was lynched and Dormio is scum, insta-lose. If we lynch Dormio though and Bard has voted me and/or PX, town has another chance to catch the final scum.
...yep, that pretty much cements it for me. And on the upside, this should be something everyone agrees with even if they think I'm scum! Yay. Lynch Dormio so if he's scum he can't have Bard blocked tonight and insta-win, if he's town Bard kills either me or PX. I of course hope it would be PX, but.
##Vote:Dormio
-
Thank god this is something that we need to figure out the traditional mafia way at this point and no more friggin role shenanigans.
oh wow I just realized this is a lie ;_;
...well at least it comes down to people picking me or PX as Bard's kill choice if Dormio isn't scum! Which is traditional mafia stuff I guess! Sorta >:
-
You're suggesting Dormio both roleblocked me and performed a kill tonight. Is this correct?
-
...actually, wait a second.
I counted the people. If Bard didn't kill overnight, we still shouldn't lose tonight. Buuuut I'm not sure we'd get Bard to be able to emergency kill N5 if we did that. Although, if PX was scum, well, he has a radio he has to toss. Therefore... since the game shouldn't end tonight if Bard doesn't kill, we can use that to see if we can get PX as a confirmed town. And I'm not lynching myself, so therefore Dormio is STILL the best option for me (:V), so how amusiiiing.
...we still only have 2 kills either way (unless the game wouldn't insta-end on a town lynch D5) so I'm fine with either of the two plans I suggested, Bard nking or not nking tonight. If he WOULD be able to nk N5 if we didn't lynch the scum by then, then a win is ensured regardless of whether I'm scum or not, though, plus the PX thing, so... I think I prefer -this- post's plan.
Bardninja:You bring up a good point! I didn't think about that. But Dormio has claimed his block stays on whoever he was using it on during the day. Therefore it wouldn't be a night action.
-
It's also worth mentioning how shady Dormio has been about his role information, despite that fact that he told us what it DOES, which should be the only thing town needs to worry about revealing; he didn't give out his rolename and was vague about it's flavoring.
-
To elaborate on why that's bad, avoidance of giving out rolename is because it might be inherently sinister. Lying when you can avoid it sometimes is dangerous, and legitimately so in this case, as it makes you vulnerable to rolecops (Like our Zakeri!).
-
Not raising a point, just checking if you meant to consciously suggest Dormio can both roleblock and NK. To be sure, I was informed at the very start of the nightphase that I was roleblocked both tonight and last night, so it is definitely not an action he used DURING the night.
However, he did cockblock Shadoweh from shooting me until she shot Schezo. It could've only been profitable for scum to have had me shot in lieu of a scumbuddy, so I'm not at all convinced Dormio is scum. The argument you provide is rather weak, to be sure.
My personal bet would be on a NeoSerela/Huh What/Schezo scum team, due to Zakeri confirming you ARE the radio man, and Hourai proved scum have the ability to tap into the radios... it was an experimental role, after all, and I would not be surprised if the crafty zombies tried to wiretap us, eh?
I'm not entirely sure I would trust Zakeri as town either. All three of his targets had publically claimed before Zakeri revealed the role name. And Huh What was a rolecop, apparently, so Zakeri could also have gotten rolenames from his scumbuddy.
-
I'm not entirely sure I would trust Zakeri as town either. All three of his targets had publically claimed before Zakeri revealed the role name. And Huh What was a rolecop, apparently, so Zakeri could also have gotten rolenames from his scumbuddy.
Dammit... that's true. ):
-
Scum!Zakeri could've, that is.
I don't believe this is strongly the case, but I figure it mentions bearing for town. I admit my interest in the lynch is becoming less as the game devolves into role shenanigans and inactivity to boot.
If I had to pick between the lot of you, I'd clear Dormio as town - Dormio's act of saving me warrants my support of him regardless of his allegiance anyway. I would've already lost without him, and he is definitely MY MVP.
The others, I am unsure of capt h, but if he truly did receive the radio and passed it along, he cannot have performed an NK per PX's information. His actions, however, have easily been some of the scummiest in the game, including pity parties, intense avoidance of scumhunting and insistence on NOT LYNCHING SCUM during LyLo. I cannot condone a capt h lynch simply because of the role information, which annoys me as he is pretty scummy. I would like him to change this attitude in future games, and focus more on the dissecting lies aspect of the game.
It comes down to PX, Neo, Zakeri for me. I'd... actually have to re-read to just say I have a personal bet on any teams, although I imagine it will still be on NeoSerela. I've... not got much to hold against Zakeri, and it is true that his role works only on people who did claim. Rather than rolecop, I guess I'd consider him a fakeclaim buster, which is always useful.
-
Dormio's block is not in fact a night action. He told us that himself. Likewise, I think he mentioned that he can't change who he blocks at night.
However, lets take a look at you.
I think we have established that Hourai did not receive those radio messages himself. At best, Huh What might have been able to get them. Thus, it's safe to say scum knew exactly who they were getting rid of when the bussing happened.
So scum knew who Hourai was, and scum bussed Hourai instead of you by a difference of one vote.
Now the next part is weird. Namely, I'm kind of surprised about scum Huh What wanting a radio. It would take a lot of skill for scum to use the radio to effectively strategize without getting caught by whoever was at the other end, as it gives your buddy twice as much to work with.
So, you had a secret line of communication with Huh What yesterday. What did you talk about? I think anything he talked about would lead us to scum, and I'd like to know the content of your communications.
@Serp - By the way, the radios are great!
And a bit of advice - if you want to prove that you're town, you don't send the radio to likely scum or people that will be dead by morning. You send the radio to someone who will almost certainly live through the night, and isn't likely to lie about it. That's why I picked PX, and the reason I suggested that Bard would be the safest pass. If you want to prove someone scum, you pass them the radio so that they're forced to pass it on the next night, and see if the pass was successful. At the moment it was far more important for you to have proven yourself town last night.
-
So, you had a secret line of communication with Huh What yesterday. What did you talk about? I think anything he talked about would lead us to scum, and I'd like to know the content of your communications.
...not much, really. UK/Shadoweh was the only radio converation that existed at all. And you with your majorly huge night ranting.
It was basically "hi whattles" "hi who should I pass the radio to" "*suggestions and who i'll probably pass it to*".
if you want to prove that you're town, you don't send the radio to likely scum
If you want to prove someone scum, you pass them the radio so that they're forced to pass it on the next night
...I honestly don't see why these are mutually exclusive in your view.
I probably should have guessed that Edible would be a highly likely scum target, though.
-
@Neo - You seem to have a case against Dormio you want to share.
Now personally, I think Dormio is the most helpful poster (currently) alive, consistently bringing up good points and reminding us that Huh What existed even if his posts are short.
So if you're going to bring a case against Dormio, it'll have to be pretty good. He's the most pro-town player alive, even if he doesn't look it.
Truth be told, the useful contributions from all the living players seems to exceed your own. Yes you look the part, but I don't even recall the last time you actively made a strong case against a player.
##Vote NeoSerela
-
Since you all seem to want to play the role game, I think I'll try too.
Since huhwhat flipped scum, that accounts for two scum in the first test.
Edible said at least two.
Meaning that if he wasn't lying, and Bard has infected blood, then Bard/huh what/Schezo set off the first test as "Positive".
Which means that in Edible's second test, the "Negative" reading would mean Bard was the one and that everybody else is cleared.
Zak... I have absolutely no reason to think he is scum. Huhwhat already flipped scum rolecop, as well.
Because lurking all D1/2/3/4 and claiming to be a rolecop that investigated only the people that had previously claimed is soooo town, amirite?
It's also worth mentioning how shady Dormio has been about his role information, despite that fact that he told us what it DOES, which should be the only thing town needs to worry about revealing; he didn't give out his rolename and was vague about it's flavoring.
I never felt the need to.
If I didn't want to act in the best interests of town, why would I claim my ability in the first place?
I would have simply blocked Shadoweh without announcing it, and let town kill her off if I were scum.
Anyway.
I like how NeoSerela was all like "omg lynch Dormio so that if Dormio flips town Bardiche can shoot someone else".
NeoSerela was like this yesterday too, wasn't he? Suggesting a random lynch then for Bardiche to shoot some during the night.
Also.
I admit my interest in the lynch is becoming less as the game devolves into role shenanigans and inactivity to boot.
-
Anyway.
I like how NeoSerela was all like "omg lynch Dormio so that if Dormio flips town Bardiche can shoot someone else".
NeoSerela was like this yesterday too, wasn't he? Suggesting a random lynch then for Bardiche to shoot some during the night.
To expand on this, basically NeoSerela wants the numbers cut down as fast as possible.
Which means that we don't get the whole discussion (not that there's much of that really going on, damn roleplay (:V)) process between kills.
PX looks bad for having done nothing the entire game.
Zakeri looks bad for having lurked the entire game.
capt. h looks bad for having done not all that much scumhunting, instead going on about radios for the entire game.
But nobody cares about these because roles shenanigans are more interesting, right?
So let's talk about some more role shenanigans!
If Edible was telling the truth PX/Zakeri/me get a clear.
Why? In the second test Bardiche set off the 1 or less zombies, and everyone else is clean. Yay!
Everybody on the first list, bar Bardiche is dead. Whoo!
So who does that leave?
Since according the the deceased Edible, God bless his soul, PX/Zakeri/me are town and Bardiche is third party who I don't really care about.
The list is narrowed down to NeoSerela and capt. h.
What's this?
MORE role shenanigans?
capt. h had a radio and threw it to PX last night?
NeoSerela is still holding onto a radio?
And there was a nightkill?
Oh my!
And you know what?
##Vote NeoSerela
-
That's L-1.
Just a heads up.
-
Edible said at least two.
Meaning that if he wasn't lying, and Bard has infected blood, then Bard/huh what/Schezo set off the first test as "Positive".
Which means that in Edible's second test, the "Negative" reading would mean Bard was the one and that everybody else is cleared.
If I was going to believe that, I'd also have to believe that I'm scum who was told they were town. Or that one of the confirmtowns is scum immune to the test like Hourai was. It seems much more likely Bard just doesn't trigger the test.
Yes, it's irritating how much the lynch is revolving around role shenanigans. It doesn't change the fact that between Zak, Dormio, and PX, one of them is scum.
I'm almost finally realizing how highly unlikely it is I won't be today's lynch, and if not today's and we don't lynch scum, that I'm at least going to die next. Kind of feeling like voting myself so that everyone can not waste time discussing me. BUT I SHALL PERSERVEREEEEE k
Seeing the logic behind Dormio blocking Shadoweh being not-something-scum would do, although I wouldn't say it makes me feel he's so certainly town as everyone else says. But I guess I'll move on, the other choices are more attractive. At the least, he's the most unlikely person who isn't me to be lynched today, it seems. Other then obviously Bard/capt.h.
I never felt the need to.
If I didn't want to act in the best interests of town, why would I claim my ability in the first place?
I would have simply blocked Shadoweh without announcing it, and let town kill her off if I were scum.
I gotta admit, it'd have been hilarious if Shadoweh tried to vig and nothing happened and she's like "WTF" and then likely got lynched. But anyway, what I find is weird is that you claim the only part town would worry about claiming, and deliberately remain vauge about rolename and flavor (You pretty specifically refused to reveal the flavor around your roleblock, which I find weird)
Anyway, that goes back to PX and Zak. I guess I need to do rereads. But knowing that outside of some superconvincing case, I'm going to be the lynch (Especially considering how incredibly incriminated I am from Edible's tests if people believe Bard does indeed trigger it, as I am the only possible person left to be scum in that case), kind of demotivates me...
doubleninja:Hiiiii well then.
Fine. Let's face it. It'd take a miracle for me to not be lynched today, I am incredibly unlikely to make a case on anyone that will be good enough to matter at all tomorrow (I'm not the best person at making cases, as people who've seen me play know >_>;), people are pretty convinced I'm scum especially as I still have my radio and I'm the ONLY person edible's lists allow to be scum if you believe Bard triggers it.
In other words, it's rather pointless for me to be alive right now. Time to move conversation on to people who might actually be scum.
##Unvote ##Vote NeoSerela
-
dumb smiley ruining my emoticons >:
-
serela did you really just selfhammer in lylo
(this is my bahpost.)
-
Well as long as Bard doesn't kill (which unless he's lied, he CAN'T due to not voting), there should be 2 town 1 scum 1 bard alive D5, which shouldn't end the game.
...although, you have a point :V
-
You're dead Serela stop talking about game content. :derp:
BAH POST
-
god dammit and I just realized something that really really needs to be said fuck
(okay at this point I guess I've bah posted 3 times and I'll stop but technically Serp didn't say stfu yet)
-
Again, why are you people all so suicidal.
-
Durr, before the ninja
@Mod: Was Edible a vanilla townie? Since you didn't give any role information with his death :V
-
I'm certain if Edible was a Vanilla townie, it would have said Vanilla townie when he flipped, like Kilgamayan.
Stupid internet, cutting out right when we get to the good part.
-
HAMMER SHUT UP!
BAH POST!
-
END OF DAY FOUR
NeoSerela (4): PX, capt. h, Dormio, NeoSerela LYNCH
Dormio (0): NeoSerela
Not voting: Bardiche, Zakeri
The dwindling survivors gathered around NeoSerela, just as they had done around huh what the day before. And just as yesterday's victim, NeoSerela was getting desperate. As his doom approached, he took action. Imitating huh what's antics yesterday, he reached up, grabbed his jaw, and dislocated it! His mouth flopped around, trying to make its way to his brain to devour it.
Yet for some reason, it didn't work. NeoSerela flopped around a bit, bleeding heavily, before falling to the floor. In his last moments, his eyes widened in horror and he tried to say something... But alas, his dislocated jaw meant that it came out garbled and unintelligible.
NeoSerela, Town Radio Operator, capable of listening to the radios he gave to the other players, has been lynched!
"Huh. Why would a human try to do that?"
"I have no idea."
It is now Night 4! You have 24 hours to send in your night actions!
@Mod: Was Edible a vanilla townie? Since you didn't give any role information with his death
Whoops, that should have also read that he had the power to test a group every night to get an indication of how many had the zombie virus.
-
START OF DAY FIVE
As the fifth say dawned, the town saw that capt. h had been killed, his brains messily devoured, leaving splatters all over the surrounding floor and walls.
capt. h, Vanilla Townie, has been killed during the night!
"Hey guys, what's going on?" It was Bardiche, strolling out to meet the other survivors a few minutes late.
"Bardiche! You're the last zombie!"
"How did you know?" he replied.
"Because you still have bits of capt. h's brain stuck to your face!"
"Oh, whoops," Bardiche said as he pulled out a wet napkin and carefully dabbed at the bits of brain on his face.
"Zakeri! Help us lynch Bard!" Yet PX's and Dormio's pleas went unheeded.
"Naw, it's cool," said Zakeri, "I heard that a Hostess truck carrying a load of Twinkies crashed on the Interstate a few miles away and I'm gonna go see if I can get some of that."
Zakeri walked out of the room, his motorcycle could be heard vrooming off into the sunset, and then Bardiche was left alone with the two humans.
"Oh, no!" the humans said in despair, "With four of us alive, it'd take three for us to legally lynch Bard, and we have only two voters interested in stopping him among us!" And so, they politely let Bardiche devour their brains at his leisure.
GAME OVER - SCUM & SURVIVOR WIN
Alive at the End
2. Bardiche, Zombie Eavesdropper, VICTORIOUS!
6. Dormio, Town Paralyzer, Endgame'd
12. PX, Vanilla Townie, Endgame'd
16. Zakeri, Survivalist Profiler, VICTORIOUS!
Brain Food:
3. capt. h, Vanilla Townie, killed Night Four.
11. NeoSerela, Town Radio Operator, lynched Day Four.
10. Edible, Town Biologist, killed Night Three.
8. huh what, Zombie Investigator, lynched Day Three, VICTORIOUS!
4. Colt, Town Bodyguard, killed Night Two.
9. Kilgamayan, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day Two.
14. Shadoweh, Town Heroic Vigilante, destroyed by own ability Day Two.
13. Schezo, Zombie Hitman, dayvigged by Shadoweh, Day Two, VICTORIOUS!
15. UncertainKitten, Town Cowboy Cop, killed Night One.
1. Affinity, Vanilla Townie, killed Night One.
5. Conquerer, Town Lawyer, destroyed by own ability Day One
7. Hanged Hourai, Traitor Mad Scientist, exposed by Conqueror's ability and lynched, Day One, VICTORIOUS!
Role list and action log to be posted shortly.
-
first
-
I pegged Zak as the survivor because Serp didn't MK him. D:
(That and his insistence on staying in because lol dignity.)
-
Oh, and very well played Bardiche. :V
-
God dammit NeoSerela
-
God dammit NeoSerela
He got a damned amazing death scene though.
-
I pegged Zak a survivor when I asked him if he was a survivor :(. Then I said we should kill Bard because he's probably a serial killer if he had vig powers.
No. next time someone claims to have a third party role, and then claims killing powers, WE KILL HIM.
Dormio, what exactly was your power? We were kind of relying on it.
-
He was a roleblocker, for real. But Bard's power is to bypass roleblocks.
That and he's the radio spy. And he backups his team's powers, so he gets multiple night actions. >_>
-
Well, the first 6 hours were the best part of this game. 5 new posts every 5 minutes :V
-
The Good
Affinity - Vanilla Townie. Honorary bodyguard for drawing the NK to himself N1 in lieu of any of the more powerful roles it could have hit.
capt. h - Vanilla Townie. Ironic that the one doing so much role speculation didn't have a role himself.
Colt - Town Bodyguard. One of the town's less powerful roles. The Hitman shot would bypass it, leaving Colt unkilled and his ability ready for another shot. Otherwise, if shot by NK or by UK, he'd block the shot but take a mortal wound, meaning that he'd be alive and voting for the following day, but would die alongside the day's lynch. This meant that his ability didn't have any long-term effect on the raw Town vs Scum numbers, and was best used to protect pro-town, confirmed, or power roled townies. His ability could still be decisive, though, either in LyLo with one scum left where he could buy time for the last lynch, or by protecting Zakeri and stopping scum from screwing themselves out of another day before LyLo (which almost happened).
Conqueror - Town Lawyer. Another lesser role. In its original form, would actually be verbose enough to skip the whole next night phase to give the confirmed townie a day in which to be guaranteed safe (and it was for this that the command was called #Fillibuster), but I decided that this was too powerful with everything else on the table. At its best, his role could give the town an extra lynch, either by catching scum and taking it down with him, or else by giving scum strong incentive to kill the confirmed townie whose role was now public. It's because scum could just immediately NK the target confirmed by this role that I don't deem it very powerful, although it could have some synergy with the Bodyguard.
Dormio - Town Paralyzer. Could ##Prick another player by PM during the day. The target would be roleblocked during the day without notification, and would then be notified upon the start of the nightphase that they were roleblocked. Both these aspects were intended to make the role somewhat pro-scum. First, scum had no day abilities whatsoever, so dayblocking could only hurt town. Secondly, a town power role that was blocked isn't really helped by being told he's blocked, but if scum are blocked and notified, they can make sure they have someone else send in the NK.
Still, if scum were hit, it'd almost always inconvenience them by keeping them from using their full set of powers. Due to Bardiche's role and to the fact that scum don't have to kill, it wouldn't ever really give a fullclear or confirmation. Investigative roles are never to be completely trusted, and attempting to shoehorn a non-investigative role into a perfect cop is a shenanigan that ought to be thwarted often enough to make folks stop doing it.
Kilgamayan - Vanilla Townie. I am so sorry you did not get a cooler role to go with the one you got last game.
Pescible4u - Town Biologist. This is the role that has probably received the most scrutiny, and folks have called it both too strongly anti-town and too strongly anti-scum. I believe it to be neither, nor even especially swingy, although I would still call it the game's strongest investigative role.
Because of Hourai, and because of his ability, inherited by Bardiche, that acted as an antiFramer, potentially as few as two scum could be vulnerable to the test at any one time, and only by having done enough good scumhunting to include those specific two in his pick of five could this role get a positive result. If you're curious about the math, there was about a 25% of getting a positive result if shooting randomly, and that would fall to about 10% if Hourai's ability was used as an antiFramer - worse odds than a Cop can expect to have, and for less information.
Even with a positive result, there would be a few townies there (especially with the concern of a Miller) to make sure that the Town couldn't just lynch their way through the list. So, it was definitely painful for scum to get hit by this, but the limited degree of certainty in targets was a proportionally reasonable payoff for the scumhunting required to get that result, and the role would get less and less effective as scum numbers dwindled. It was at best a scumhunting aid, to steer the town in the right direction.
As far as hurting the town goes, I don't think anyone would call a Cop a liability to town just because scum has a Framer/Godfather. Investigative results should always be taken with a grain of salt, and should never trump scumhunting. If the town had gotten a misleading result, and then proceeded to take that result as the gospel, it would have deserved to lose for that mistake, just like letting a Godfather cruise through LyLo from a Cop check.
NeoSerela - Town Radio Operator. A pretty fun role, although there never really was any secret information transferred to make use of. NeoSerela's only part in things was picking who the two radios would go to in the Pregame phase (he could have kept one for himself if he had wanted, but this would have made his eavesdropping ability pointless). If a player with a radio died, it would go to NeoSerela if he didn't have one, or else to the player who had last voted the dead radio holder, regardless of whether it was a lynch or a NK. The reason that messages were only passed every 24 hours was so that no inferences about identity could be made based on timezones.
Also, while it's true that passing the radio took a night action, if a lone scum came into possession of a radio, he'd be informed that he could barely manage to pass it off to someone else on his way to the NK and it wouldn't use his night action. An obvious rule patch to stop the town from confirming two of its number every day when one scum remained, but I wanted there to be a reason not to pass the radios for town, and I sure as hell wasn't going to allow them to exploit that to catch scum without hunting.
PX - Vanilla Townie. Another one. I wanted to include enough that scum wouldn't really draw any extra suspicion for claiming it themselves.
Shadoweh - Town Heroic Vigilante. Was hoping that this potentially unlimited dayvig would be a present to someone who was really wanting it, but it worked out pretty well anyway. The original concept for this was a measure to prevent excessive newbtown from bringing the Town down - sometimes the most pro-town thing to do is shoot someone who may be townie, but is causing grief for the town. This role is actually motivated to shoot the townier of two lynch options, because it means that the town may have an extra kill the next day too.
UncertainKitten - Town Cowboy Cop. An investigative counterpart to the Kevorkian Doc that I'm surprised I haven't seen before. Could investigate on even nights, or kill to forfeit all future investigations. The odds of the game lasting until Day Five, let alone the cop surviving that long, were pretty small, so in practice this role basically boiled down to getting one investigation N2, and then shooting on N3. Still, it was the only role capable of getting a good result on both Hourai and Zakeri, so that's something. I'm always sad to see a new role die N1.
The Bad
Bardiche - Zombie Eavesdropper. If I hadn't come up with most role names at the last minute, I would have called him 'Zombie Scavenger'. He had a few abilities, all of them more useful later in the game. Firstly, so long as he was alive, scum would automatically receive a copy of all radio communications. Hourai let the Town know that there was potentially a listener out there, though, so this didn't get much use. Secondly, Bardiche would inherit the abilities of dead scum. Thirdly, he got to use an ability each night without actually using up his night action.
Basically, he was intended to be scum's weapon against excessive setup speculation. "Scum couldn't have done that, the one with that kind of ability is already dead." "Scum couldn't have done that, they have to spend an action on NKing." This role was meant to prevent that sort of thing from being valid.
Hanged Hourai - Traitor Mad Scientist. For the record, I named this role Traitor first, and only afterwards looked on the wiki and saw that the word was already used to describe basically what I intended, and I didn't want the town to know for sure whether he could talk with scum, since the town is never supposed to be sure about scum communication limitations in general. Anyway, his mind control beacon was kind of a one-way Bus Driver. He picked two targets, and anything trying to hit the first at night would instead hit the second, with no notification for the user that a redirect had happened.
This role was basically meant to be used as either a Godfatherizer, or a Framer, and the two functions could be switched between freely. Also, while Hourai would automatically protect himself from scum NKs, if he was hit by the Rolecop he'd become a true zombie, wouldn't lose his ability, would be able to post in the scum QT, and would begin showing as a zombie to Edible's test as well.
huh what - Zombie Investigator. If I hadn't come up with most role names at the last minute, I would have called this one 'Zombie Creeper' or something. Investigative roles are generally less useful for scum than for town, so this one was made extra powerful. He'd get the full role PM, the full list of actions used so far over the course of the game, and the full list of actions used on that person over the course of the game.
The purpose of this role was roleclaim fodder, the other big meta-related thing scum have to worry about in role-heavy games. With this role, the zombies would have a much better idea of what was out there, and they'd be able to counterclaim or think up new roles more convincingly. Also, this role came with an implicit guarantee that there were no Watchers or Trackers in the game, which freed the scum team up to claim whatever night actions they wanted without worry of being disproven.
Schezo - Zombie Hitman. This role could perform an extra, unblockable NK on any night. What more do you want?
The Wily
Zakeri - Survivalist Profiler. Another role I like. A survivor with the ability to perform a limited rolecop - and he becomes immune to his rolecopped targets' actions. He shows as Town to Edible's investigation in the first place. If hit by UK's investigation before he scans her, he shows up as third party, and if after, then he shows up as town. If UK tries to vig him after being scanned, the shot fizzles but she keeps her abilities. Likewise with Shadoweh. Dormio's roleblock can only stop his scans if he pricks Zakeri before being scanned, and even while roleblocked Zakeri's gathered immunities remain. Conqueror's ability would appear to reveal Zakeri's role PM as that of a vanilla townie if he had been scanned by Zakeri first.
Any scum who Zakeri had scanned would fail to NK him if they were the one to send in the role PM - this includes Schezo's Hitman shot. After scanning Hourai, his future scans would ignore all attempts at redirection. He'd be immune to a scanned ability even if Bardiche was the one using it. huh what's investigation wouldn't be affected one way or the other, however.
This role was prevented from being too useful to the town by (and he was informed of this as well) the fact that if he investigated scum, even despite gaining immunity to their scum abilities, he wouldn't actually know that they were scum. Each scum had a pre-provided fakeclaim, and if Zakeri scanned them before they claimed any role in the thread, he'd find them to be their fakeclaim (Bardiche = Vanilla Townie, huh what = Watcher/Tracker, Schezo = Kevorkian Doc). After claiming a role in public in the thread, Zakeri's scan would instead return a result of that role. In either case, scum would have been notified in the QT that they had been rolecopped and of the result of that rolecop, but not who had copped them. In retrospect, it might have been a bit more fair for scum if I had informed them from the start of a living rolecop, and just required them to always have a fakeclaim they wanted to appear as. In any case, these limitations would mean that Zakeri's ability wouldn't do much to find scum before the LyLo massclaim, and once the town was in LyLo, Zakeri would be smart to try and get town lynched too.
I am so sad that this role didn't end up being useful, but that's partly my own fault for allowing so few scans. If I used this role again, I'd probably give it two or three scans per night.
-
I pegged Zak as the survivor because Serp didn't MK him. D:
(That and his insistence on staying in because lol dignity.)
Neither of these are true.
I survived the MK because I sent in a role action.
I would have stayed in when I came back no matter what.
Though If I was town, I probably wouldn't have left in the first place.
I was all for lynching Bardiche back on day three, but that would involve me trying to counter claim a non-town role when I was already on the path to being a (useless) town role.
Bardiche had the ability to completely nullify all attempts to not play the game properly during Lylo
Sucks for town, don't it?
-
Bardiche had the ability to completely nullify all attempts to not play the game properly during Lylo
Sucks for town, don't it?
Well, claiming third party was pretty sly, and I don't think without a counterclaim most people would have thought otherwise. Although people should probably have considered the possibility more, but eh.
Dead QT here: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/RD4QhTLSLPayx
-
Welp.
I don't have much to say, really. D1 and D2 were enjoyable (albeit irritatingly lengthy for re-reads, but it was a large game so what can you do), but I slept through most of D3. I hate to say it, but I think I would have been under a motivation slump at that period of time even if I were a townie - really, guys, playing the set-up is an effective way to kill interest. As somebody who is not particularly skillful at logic puzzles, claims that "town can win without any scumhunting" cause me to lose all motivation, since I have very little to contribute to those sorts of discussions. It does not help that nearly everybody beat me to the obvious suggestions as well.
I found the set-up to be interesting, but it was also incredibly stressful to watch everything related to it unfold from the PoV of scum.
Zak, what were you getting at with your D1 Schezo vote, anyway?
-
It was literally the best case I saw all day.
Also, those kinds of days I live for as scum, because it means I don't have to do any work. It's like the Town's lynching themselves.
-
Oh wait, I just realized I won. :V Hooray!
I dunno, it feels like Bard did all the work this game. I didn't do anything notable following D1 aside from getting Kilga lynched because MotK loves their intricate fullclaims.
-
Hey, you got Kilga lynched. Despite my reassurances, even. Even though my reassurances turned out to be absolutely worthless.
Seriously, Neoserela going "I'm confuse." over your fake claim is, like, 85% of the reason why I yelled at NeoSerela for being too Naive. Even though he thought I was yelling at him for believing Capt.H was town.
-
Town was in LYLO on day 3 despite killing one scum per day, and lost on night 4. This should not be possible, ever.
Game was ridiculously swing, sorry Serp. Giving scum a full counter for every role is broken, giving town a weird psuedo-supercop was broken, making said supercop actually booby-trapped leans heavily toward bastard moddery, foisting upon town two self-destructive roles.
You could play this setup a million times and get a million different results just by having every player flip a coin each day to determine who to vote for, rendering scumhunting completely unnecessary and downright irritating in the midst of information and misinformation. It's no surprise that everyone lost interest in the game partway through day 2.
-
Yay winning when it looked hopeless.
Wait... No matter what Zakeri could still come back from no modkill 48 hour rule when he vanished for a week? But wow his role made him survive just about everything but a lynch if he poked the people who could harm him first? :V
Not much to say about this game otherwise since I already vented the multicop and was disspirited to do a lot since I got pegged and couldn't see a way out. I hope I don't do that badly again. Sorry to my fellow partners but I tried my best to play out day 2 and try to set up as many town as I could to take with me, even though it was rather lackluster play.
-
huh, what?
PX I BLAME YOU, SCUM.
-
Hey, you got Kilga lynched. Despite my reassurances, even. Even though my reassurances turned out to be absolutely worthless.
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?
-
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?
It means you had a ridiculous fakeclaim. :V
-
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?
I had a case on him as well. Also meta. But yeah, your fakeclaim didn't hurt.
-
I assumed we were safe regardless of whether or not Bardiche was a zombie or not, seeing as I had him blocked.
Evidently not.
-
Your fakeclaim was indeed ridiculous. Also, you bastards egged me for a lynch when I just got home tired.
NeoSerela, :colonveeplusalpha:
Also, holy fucking Pesco Mindhax
-
Well, that was interesting.
Not sure I want to play town ever again though. And scum would be too stressful.
It really took a team effort to lose though. Dormio blocking the kill on Bard and leaving his power dangerously vague for town, Neo for not giving her radio to a safe target and hammering herself in Lylo, me trying to take Edible down with me and dropping my case on Huh What over a role claim, everyone that wanted my head for suggesting we kill the serial killer survivor with vig powers :V (especially NeoSerela, although he and everyone else may be right in normal circumstances).
I feel a little sick after this game.
-
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?
Half of that was your fake claim, I'd say you could call it a personal win anytime.
Also, for those interested, I lied completely about investigating Edible. I had actually investigated Colt just before he died :V I had successfully blocked myself from the evils of a Vanilla townie, a Guy who would have ended up protecting me, and a guy who just wanted someone to talk to during the night (And also, Dormio, but that one didn't count.)
-
I assumed we were safe regardless of whether or not Bardiche was a zombie or not, seeing as I had him blocked.
Evidently not.
That's another big issue with this game. Part of the reason I went with the HW lynch on day 3 is that I knew you still had Bard locked down, and if there was no NK we'd know he was scum.
Bard's ability made mine, even mine at full "potential," look vanilla by comparison. He could literally get away with anything. Serp, punishing town for using abilities that the setup gave them is ridiculous, and I've seen numerous examples of this in your setup. Next time if you want to encourage town to scumhunt, do so with an open setup instead of bastard mod role madness.
-
That's another big issue with this game. Part of the reason I went with the HW lynch on day 3 is that I knew you still had Bard locked down, and if there was no NK we'd know he was scum.
Bard's ability made mine, even mine at full "potential," look vanilla by comparison. He could literally get away with anything. Serp, punishing town for using abilities that the setup gave them is ridiculous, and I've seen numerous examples of this in your setup. Next time if you want to encourage town to scumhunt, do so with an open setup instead of bastard mod role madness.
To be fair, his fake role claim was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of, and I shouldn't have been the only one to think he was lying.
-
To be fair, his fake role claim was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of, and I shouldn't have been the only one to think he was lying.
This was a game that had a player with the ability to cop-check five players at once.
-
And actually managed to cop all the scum on the first attempt...
-
Pesco is truly a mindhax pro.
-
Capt H. I hope you are finished with mafia because or one bad game where you really did get screwed by the setup. You seemed to have the making to get good and I can assure you they don't all turn out like this one did.
-
I'm pretty sure everyone who got "Vanilla Townie" cursed the mod. I know I did.
-
I hope you are finished with mafia because or one bad game where you really did get screwed by the setup.
what
Also, we should really have another game of Vanilla Mafia.
-
Eh, so Bard was zombie?
Everyone on Edible's test list, except for you and kilga, which is why I hope they can claim as well.
-
what
I think he means "not finished."
Also, we should really have another game of Vanilla Mafia.
There's going to be an open-role simple setup coming soon, yes. It should be good actual-scumhunting practice for our newer players and a break from the stream of role madness we've had lately.
-
Action List
---Night Zero---
NeoSerela - ##SetA UK, ##SetB Shadoweh
---Night One---
Bardiche - ##From huh what, ##To UncertainKitten, ##NK UncertainKitten (Result: RadioA to NeoSerela)
Colt - ##Protect Shadoweh
Shadoweh - ##SetB Schezo
Zakeri - ##Scan Kilgamayan (Result: VT)
Pesco - ##Centrifuge huh what, Bardiche, Shadoweh, Kilgamayan, Schezo (Due to redirect, actually UncertainKitten, Bardiche, Shadoweh, Kilgamayan, Schezo) (Result: POSITIVE)
Schezo - ##Hit Affinity
huh what - ##Rolecop Shadoweh (Result, Heroic Vigilante PM, sent RadioB to Schezo N1, Centrifuged by Pesco N1, Protected by Colt N1)
---Day Two---
03:19 Dormio - ##Prick PX
34:37 Dormio - ##Prick Shadoweh
34:46 Shadoweh - ##Kill Bardiche (Result: Blocked)
46:31 Dormio - ##Prick Schezo
48:59 Shadoweh - ##Kill Schezo (Result: Both dead, RadioB to capt. h)
50:03 Dormio - ##Prick Bardiche (Result: Can only perform one night action)
---Night 2---
Colt - ##Protect Zakeri
Edible - ##Centrifuge Bardiche, Zakeri, Dormio, PX, Colt (Result: NEGATIVE)
Bardiche - ##Nightkill Colt
Zakeri - ##Scan Colt (Result: Bodyguard)
huh what - ##Rolecop PX (Result: VT, targeted by ##Centrifuge from Edible N2)
capt. h - ##SetB huh what
---Day Three---
21:56 Dormio - ##Prick capt. h
31:39 Dormio - ##Prick Bardiche
huh what lynched (Result: SetB to capt. h)
---Night Three-
Bardiche - ##Nightkill Edible
NeoSerela - ##SetA Edible (Result: bounced back)
Zakeri - ##Scan NeoSerela (Result: Town Radio Operator)
Edible - ##centrifuge: Bardiche, Zakeri, Dormio, PX, NeoSerela (Result: would have been NEGATIVE)
capt. h - ##SetB PX
---Day Four---
NeoSerela lynched (Result: RadioA to Dormio)
---Night Four---
Bardiche - ##Nightkill capt. h
Game over
Now, to the questions and comments.
Firstly, as far as the Zakeri modkill goes, I tend to be very wary of modkilling in the first place. It pretty much always slants the game in favor of town, either by taking out a liability townie or by killing scum or survivor. The modkilling etiquette I always played by before this site was that if a townie was modkilled, that would take up the town's lynch for the day. In any case, Zakeri PM'd me during the night that he was still playing, and if he still hadn't shown up by the end of Day Two, I would have modkilled him anyway.
Secondly, Edible: The town effectively had four mislynches before it lost. Remember that Conqueror and Shadoweh only used their abilities to self-destruct because they were the favored lynch targets at the time. Of the 12 players that died over the course of the game, 7 of those deaths were town-determined. That's actually pretty generous to the town, especially considering that one of your vigs died before getting a chance to use her shot. The game ran quickly for a setup with 16 players, but the town had plenty of chances to catch scum.
As far as your ability goes, the odds of getting a good result were only slightly worse than they'd be if you were a Cop in a game with a Godfather and a Framer, and I don't think anyone would call that bastardly. I mean, you were actually anticipating that much during Day Three. That it was potentially two Godfathers instead of one Godfather plus one Framer doesn't exactly send the role straight into bastardly territory. And as long as all the zombies were alive, you would get a positive result if you could manage to include them in your top five list - remember that in the game as it ran, all of your results were valid, so you really don't have anything to complain about. The odds you get from picking randomly are never going to be a good representation of the odds you can get with good scumhunting.
-
Finally read through that QT.
Also, that sucks.
My role said I block ANY action, whether it occurs during the day or night.
aaaaaaa stupid Bardiche.
And role shenanigans.
I STILL BLAME YOU PX, GO DIE SCUM.
-
Sure, I'll play vanilla mafia. The problem is that mafia tends to get in the way of my work, so I should probably skip a game.
@Serp - I don't like the mass-cop checker. Not because it's too broken, but because it makes the game way too stressful for the townies stuck in the middle. You create a role that can isolate 3 players and creates the assumption that 2/3 are scum, and the two townies are not going to be having a good time. It ratchets up the paranoia up to 11, and forces players to make cases they really shouldn't be making.
I couldn't scum hunt because I had to either attack Edible or attack his role just to make it through the day.
EDIT: If the mass cop-checker ever comes up again, I'm going to advocate a policy lynch on whoever has it. It's not worth it, pits town against town in a heartbeat, and turns the game into setup speculation more than every other role in the game combined.
-
Oh, could one of the scum also post the scum QT?
-
I don't have the energy to pick apart this setup any more. Suffice to say I'm unconvinced it even approaches reasonable playability, and handwaving "but good scumhunting fixes it" is not an acceptable solution to a bad setup, a lesson I learned in the last game I ran - and that one was the opposite of role madness. Not pulling punches, this is arguably the least fun I've had playing mafia.
-
It came down to LyLo with one scum left, where the town's perception of whether Bardiche was likely to be a buddy to three flipped scum played the decisive factor. If you didn't enjoy it, I can't really say anything against that, but it was a real game of Mafia where both sides had a chance at victory in their own hands.
Anyway, scum QT is here, Conqueror: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/2SNBNGixW7eL
-
The only thing I think I'd be unhappy with is the modkill decision. The players don't know why the guy is still not showing up and even if communication is maintained to the mod, it looks like a free pass was given.
-
From Serp's point of view, I don't think there was really much of a choice in the way the modkill thing played out. I did message him saying I would play the game, he put his foot down when he said I would be modkilled at the end of Day 2, and I started posting before the end of day two. That's just how it turned out.
Also, your fault for letting lurkers slide.
-
* takes off hat and makes a bow.
Don't worry, Edible, scum raged just as hard as you do at the setup.
Happy I managed to get away with claiming third party. Already figured Zakeri was the Survivor, but didn't expect his role was actually true!
On Zakeri, I agree that it's ridiculous someone got away with a week of not posting and think Serp should've modkilled him.
-
@Serp: Winner is not relevant to my case. I would have said the same thing had town won. I don't feel the setup is exclusively slanted towards town or scum, but towards absolute nonsense which is coincidentally how the game played out anyway.
@Zak: That would be true up to the point where the game was extended. You should have died partway through D2, Serp gave you a free pass.
@Bard: Role BS aside I commend you for your scum play. Mentioned this in the dead QT but you had me, pesco, and k4u all fooled.
-
That's what I do it for!
I think the most amusing bit was where capt h remarked I was "throwing my scumminess in everyone's faces" by doing exactly what I promised to do if I were scum, and basically taking a backseat to the game after my claim.
The entire plan hinged on the real survivor not counter-claiming, and thankfully Zakeri did not.
Bardiche does enjoy his gambits as scum.
-
hi5 gambiteers
We can be our own alignment and go hang out with Zakeri in the twinkie truck. :(
Edit:
and basically taking a backseat to the game after my claim.
This might have bothered me more but everyone took a backseat to the game partway through D2.
-
Yeah, let it be known by the way that I do not resent UK, for all that I was annoyed at her flipping off my case which I thought was pretty legitimate. She was going to die no matter what because I thought it would be funny. :V
The dead QT is all criticising the living players' play, which I think is a little unfair as you have more information there than do the players in-game, and how obviously scum someone is is not apparent when you're actually still playing the game and still unsure of everyone's proper motivations etcetera.
Still reading the dead! FWIW, I didn't want to take the exciting route of offing Dormio because I was never sure I would win!
Also, I liked how I could warn about scum having possibly very powerful roles with respect to Edible's role and people still never assumed this was the case. :V
-
Yeah, let it be known by the way that I do not resent UK
I want to second this since what I said when initially supporting a UK kill in the scum qt could have been worded in a nicer manner. I just have terrible memories of MSR D1 and I think that causes me to find her somewhat intimidating from a scum PoV. :s
People in the dead QT always bitch and moan about the living players from what I've seen, so I don't think that what was said in the graveyard was that unusually unfair.
-
I was pushing a Kilga lynch from the dead QT for half of D2. :V
-
Edible's role? He didn't pick any of the targets until the night he died :V
-
I was convinced that Bardiche was the third party as well. :(
Would have been nice if Zakeri counter claimed, but I guess he was too busy looking for twinkies and doesn't care about us town.
I have to admit I kind of gave up on thinking sometime during D3 though.
-
Yeah, let it be known by the way that I do not resent UK, for all that I was annoyed at her flipping off my case which I thought was pretty legitimate. She was going to die no matter what because I thought it would be funny. :V
The dead QT is all criticising the living players' play, which I think is a little unfair as you have more information there than do the players in-game, and how obviously scum someone is is not apparent when you're actually still playing the game and still unsure of everyone's proper motivations etcetera.
To be fair - we probably deserve it.
I was convinced that Bardiche was the third party as well. :(
Would have been nice if Zakeri counter claimed, but I guess he was too busy looking for twinkies and doesn't care about us town.
I have to admit I kind of gave up on thinking sometime during D3 though.
Just because someone is third party doesn't mean we shouldn't kill them.
He had vig powers, and he claimed third party. I might be new, but that's not a subtle way of saying "I am a serial killer". And killing him would have earned us a day to think either way.
The problem with Bard, and I mentioned it earlier, was that he was shouting himself scum so loudly, that I couldn't get anyone to pay attention to him. It was a really good move killing UK like he said he would, while Schezo took out Affinity as an alibi.
Now that the game is over, can you post your role PM?
-
Now that the game is over, can you post your role PM?
Dormio, you are the Town Paralyzer!
By stealthily pricking suspects with a needle dipped in potent neurotoxin, you are capable of rendering their bodies and minds sluggish and unresponsive, rendering them incapable of using their abilities.
During the day, you may PM the mod an order to ##Prick another player. Within 24 hours, the target player will be informed that he has been hit, and from then on he will be unable to use any of his intrinsic role abilities during the day or night, including NKing for scum. You may use this ability as often as you want, but it will only affect the most recently pricked player at any given time.
You win with the town. Good luck!
It's exactly as I said during the game, and it was explained in the role post by Serp, but whatever.
Just because someone is third party doesn't mean we shouldn't kill them.
He had vig powers, and he claimed third party. I might be new, but that's not a subtle way of saying "I am a serial killer". And killing him would have earned us a day to think either way.
Thing is, I thought he was harmless with my block.
-
Alright, I admit explicitly telling you that your power blocks scum night kills and then having them go right through is very bastardly.
-
It would've worked on anyone else but me. Besides, I was third party, not scum, remember? ;D
FWIW town should lynch Third-Party on LYLO if only because it'd give them a night of investigation and cull the numbers to make a better, informed decision. The only risk is that you also hand scum an NK to use on you again, but I guess c'est la vie. (To be fair, I never did outright claim ITP)
Town did great up until I got roleblocked and NKed anyway. Scum were ready to throw the game when Pesco caught all of us.
-
Also,
Dormio, you are the Town Paralyzer!
By stealthily pricking suspects with a needle dipped in potent neurotoxin, you are capable of rendering their bodies and minds sluggish and unresponsive, rendering them incapable of using their abilities.
During the day, you may PM the mod an order to ##Prick another player. Within 24 hours, the target player will be informed that he has been hit, and from then on he will be unable to use any of his intrinsic role abilities during the day or night, including NKing for scum. You may use this ability as often as you want, but it will only affect the most recently pricked player at any given time.
You win with the town. Good luck!
rendering them incapable of using their abilities.
abilities.
abilities.
:(
-
No idea what ITP is (what does it mean?), but to be fair, I was very, very annoyed that you never claimed vig powers on day 2. I mentioned it several times - you pretty much told us that you were scum repeatedly on days 1 and 2, if not directly.
I knew there was something wrong day 2, but the whole role-blocking thing threw me off on day 3.
FWIW town should lynch Third-Party on LYLO if only because it'd give them a night of investigation and cull the numbers to make a better, informed decision. The only risk is that you also hand scum an NK to use on you again, but I guess c'est la vie. (To be fair, I never did outright claim ITP)
For what it's worth, that'll probably get you lynched on this forum. But I'll push for the 3rd party lynch next time anyway.
@Dormio - I agree with you.
We didn't lynch Bard because first there were two scum kills in one night and he claimed one before we realized there could be a second, then he claimed third party and no one counterclaimed, so we assumed it was true since we were in Lylo for some reason, and then you blocked his nightkills so there was no threat.
A vanilla game would be good right now. No third parties, no double scum kills, (hopefully) no complicated roles, just plain old scum hunting. It was impossible to argue Bard scum under the conditions of the game. Serial killer maybe, but without knowing the setup, any good player would assume it was impossible for Bard to be scum. Scum would need a double kill, a third party would have to fail to claim, and a role blocker would have to be rendered completely ineffective for any Bard theory to make sense. That is the biggest problem with this setup - it made hunting one of the scum impossible.
-
Not at all. Had Dormio died earlier then the issue would never have come up.
-
Not at all. Had Dormio died earlier then the issue would never have come up.
Good point
##Vote Dormio
-
GDI WHY DID I REALIZE BARD WAS SCUM 2 MINUTES AFTER I SELF-HAMMERED SINCE I THOUGHT THERE HAD TO BE 2 KILLS FOR THE GAME TO END
-
In other news, I wonder if me saying that (and because of realizing it, NOT hammering myself), would have changed the lynch from me to Bard anyway.
-
Shadoweh, you are the Town Heroic Vigilante!
As an expert gunman jaded by the zombie apocalypse, you have no qualms about taking justice into your own hands and killing whoever you think is a zombie. Just remember that zombies aren't known for going down easy...
Starting on the second day, you may post ##Kill: <player> in the public thread, and that player will die. The day may be lengthened by 24 hours if the kill takes place in the last 24 hours of the day. If you hit a townie, your ability will be usable again the next day, but if you hit scum, you might not survive the day.
You win with the town. Good luck!
You've found a new item among your belongings! It's a radio handset, marked "B". With it, you may send and receive messages through the mod with whoever's on the other end. At any time, you may pass a message you'd like to send to the mod. Every 24 hours, those messages will be received by whoever's on the other end, and you will receive any messages sent to you in turn.
As your night action, you may send the mod the command ##SetB: <player> to anonymously pass the handset to another living player of your choice. This uses up your night action, but normal talking through the radio does not.
Note also that any PMs you receive through the radio are subject to the same rules about quoting and exact wording that apply to all mod PMs.
I think my roleplaying roots took some of the flavor a liiiittle too seriously. For Day 1 I was nothing more then a Radio Mason just trying to live to start shooting people with my practically UNLIMITED DAYVIG the next day. Playing by gut is hard. No one wants to believe anything you say and it's hard to translate your misgivings into a case. I blame NeoSerela for not knowing the name of his own radios for my messup at the end :p (and myself for being too picky and messages from the past sent to the future being hard to keep track of x.x)
Looking back at the Day 1 voting record, every valid case was thrown up against a newer player who had little chance of defending themselves from the experienced people attacking them. I intended to use my vig as a way to make the older players look at each other by force. Then Edible's list came out and the talkers were the only targets, so that kind of worked. I.. didn't think I'd be under as much assault after Hourai flipped Traitor. I'd made my plan to go Rambo that night but Town having lost its mind helped cement it. Insanity is contagious. Good on huh what for infecting people with the Traitor is Flavor idea.
No Kilga, the list was only for show at the end but you stopped being the target after you demanded I kill you for being Vanilla and less useful then Bard. Town didn't need more role shenanigans, it needed someone that could talk sense that was town. I regret both warning Bard I planned to killl him without stating my case instead of just shooting, and waiting on another town player I couldn't rely on to back up my pretty much anti-town play. Oh, and dying. Serp is a vague bastard with his wording. I really believed I would live until the end of the day. I never got to make my case on huh what after Schezo flipped for linking his night action excuse to a flipped scum.
Someone said they were using AtE against me? I don't know what that means but any irl excuses were discarded because I'm a HEARTLESS MURDERESS.
FFFFF DORMIO TRYING TO CONTROL MY LIIIIIIIFE but I still think you were the best town left. And that capt.h guy who called Bard out on his scum meta. "Would Bard really do everything he said he would do as scum and claim the nightkill?" Yes, yes Bard would. He is a silver tongued disciple of Audacity.
I expect people won't stop being upset with my play for awhile, and they have every right to be mad at me. I made the same mistake as last game and tried way, way too hard, but with a power that made people not want to play the game. Even if it had good intentions it was a bad plan and I apologize to anyone that was offended by my attitude that day. I like all of you very much and it would hurt it you stopped playing because of me.
-
In other news, I wonder if me saying that (and because of realizing it, NOT hammering myself), would have changed the lynch from me to Bard anyway.
You should be regretting passing your radio to Edible more. If the radio had been in the hands of a living player, then we wouldn't have had a reason to lynch you. You might also want to regret hammering yourself in LyLo, but your biggest mistake was the radio. Basically, when you get a verifiable night action, you should use it in a way that confirms yourself as town first, and to find scum second.
Incidentally, when I asked you to report who you were giving the radio to into the radio, your response was... too confusing for me to understand. It seemed pretty clear that you were giving it to me at the time, and it seemed like you rambled off a little at the end. That made it very difficult to figure out where the radio was going, and when it comes to clearing yourself, you should try to be crystal clear.
-
You shouldn't have been relying on the radios to clear people. I thought they were all kinds of awesome as a mobile Masonry that couldn't be killed, but all you people wanted to do with them was play hot potato!
I told NeoSerela it was like he was claiming scum to me by insisting Hourai found out from one of us :V
Actually, I am proud of one thing. Somehow a MAJOR PRESSING CASE was built around.. this.
I wanna be the very townest!
Like no town ever was
To catch scum is my real test
To save newbs is my cause
I will re-read across the days
Hunting far and wide
Each wagon flip to understand
The motives that they hide
MAFIA! Gotta lynchem all!
It's you and me
I know it's my destiny!
MAFIA! Oooooooooooo~
You're my best friend
In a town we must defend
MAFIA! Gotta lynchem all!
A gut so true
My gambit will pull us through
You clear me and I'll clear you
Mafiaaaaaaaaaaa~ Gotta lynchem all!
Gotta lynchem all, MAFIA!
And my last radio message that was cut off by the scum team trolling me.. :<
Signing off from Mafia, Mafia, MAFIA RADIOOOO~
That UK, that kitty cat
You post content she purrs
She thinks this thread is hers
But you won't like her when she's angry
No, you won't like her when she's angry
Angry angry
She's townie
Not frownie when she's in a happy mood
She loves her obvscum food
But she's got such an attitude
Completely scummy attitude
scum-my attitude
Kitten is angry, UK is offended
Fur standing out and little claws extended
Darting around and hunting quite a bit
And throwing up a wall of text
I don't know what to make of it
Kitten is angry, full of discontentment
Wildly attacking posts that just don't make sense
Waffling around in a psychotic blitz
And posting all these walls of text
But I still love UncertainKitten to bits!
Bard should post his crazy zombie limmericks. His trolling the Graveyard song was perfect.
Edit: Town Damsel in Distress! You win when you are saved. <3 I died.
-
You should be regretting passing your radio to Edible more. If the radio had been in the hands of a living player, then we wouldn't have had a reason to lynch you. You might also want to regret hammering yourself in LyLo, but your biggest mistake was the radio. Basically, when you get a verifiable night action, you should use it in a way that confirms yourself as town first, and to find scum second.
Well it's not like he knew Edible was going to be NK'd, given he thought Edible was scum (I think). That said, he totally didn't have to self-hammer in LYLO when he knew he was town, but eh, we've all already gotten on his case for that. :V
-
To sum it up:
* - Self Hammering is not town
* - Gaming the setup rather than scumhunting is Not Smart
* - Do not rely on role shenanigans to carry your game for you
* - If it sounds Too Good To Be True, it probably is
* - Mafia is a team effort. Don't try to solo the game unless you're an ITP.
-
To sum it up:
* - Self Hammering is not town
* - Gaming the setup rather than scumhunting is Not Smart
* - Do not rely on role shenanigans to carry your game for you
* - If it sounds Too Good To Be True, it probably is
* - Mafia is a team effort. Don't try to solo the game unless you're an ITP.
Ironically, only half of those applied to this game. If we gamed the setup with your lynch, we probably would have caught Huh What the next day. Edible role shenanigans day two could have carried the game for us. His role did sound too good to be true, but was true anyways. And by nature, Edible's biologist ability seems to destroy town teamwork.
I'm not saying that as a good thing, because I agree with everything you said completely. Except for the ITP comment, which I don't know what it means.
What does "ITP" mean?
-
Independent Third Party
-
To sum it up:
* - Self Hammering is not town
* - Gaming the setup rather than scumhunting is Not Smart
* - Do not rely on role shenanigans to carry your game for you
* - If it sounds Too Good To Be True, it probably is
* - Mafia is a team effort. Don't try to solo the game unless you're an ITP.
* - Pesco is always right
Fixed :V
-
Well, capt h, if you consider victory more important than the enjoyment of the game for a majority, then indeed, gaming the setup is a good plan.
It's taking advantage of a design flaw in lieu of playing Mafia, though, and so it is not a modus operandi that should logically be followed, as you signed up to play a different type of game. This is also the weakness in these bastard role mod flavour shenanigans.
-
The problem with trying to game the setup, and a huge factor in why Bardiche won, is you have no way of 100% knowing what the scum team is capable of. Trying to game the setup without taking people's actions into account just doesn't work. Role shenanigans can be a suplement to scumhunting, but never a substitute.
Maybe if we play mafia knowing Bard as scum always gets two night actions. True facts.
Even after Serp's explanation of why the Biologist wasn't overpowered, I agree it wasn't a suitable role especially for this setup. Considering there were three town controlled kill powers, two of which could just clear a person instead.. Just imagine if Conqueror and UK hadn't died Day 1 and the list was Conqueror, Shadoweh, huh what, Bardiche, Schezo.
-
'Nilla Townie is still the most powerful role in the game.
Too bad it didn't save me. :(
-
'Nilla Wafer is still the most powerful cookie in the game.
Is true.
-
The irony, Shadoweh, is that I kept pointing out to capt h that "we" don't know scum's powers and that they could be pretty powerful.
:V See, Bard olevs his irony. Watch me get lynched next game when I do things like this.
-
Well, capt h, if you consider victory more important than the enjoyment of the game for a majority, then indeed, gaming the setup is a good plan.
It's taking advantage of a design flaw in lieu of playing Mafia, though, and so it is not a modus operandi that should logically be followed, as you signed up to play a different type of game. This is also the weakness in these bastard role mod flavour shenanigans.
I don't play much mafia. In fact this is my first game.
I agree that I probably went too far with the setup and radios. In fact, clearing myself was far more important to me at the time than whether or not my method was right; I thought Edible was wrong, that at most only one of his trio could be scum, and I wanted to clear that up before Edible lost us the game. With Edible's role, Dormio's role, and the radios, I kind of figured that the setup was part of playing the game - it even looked like a central part of it. I apologize.
Incidentally, it takes a lot of guts claiming a role I asked Zak about, knowing full well that he would be in the right if he counterclaimed. I'm impressed.
The irony, Shadoweh, is that I kept pointing out to capt h that "we" don't know scum's powers and that they could be pretty powerful.
:V See, Bard olevs his irony. Watch me get lynched next game when I do things like this.
Next game, you won't have a double nightkill, a role blocker, and a silent third party all confirming your third party and dormant status. Unfortunately, even if I didn't analyze the setup at all, you simply could have never reasonably been considered scum, and any attempt to lynch you as scum would have been impossible for me. The only way you could have been lynched was under the assumption that you were a third party.
-
He claimed Miller after being copped. On other forums that alone would have been lynchworthy. Bard won because he's got the touch. When all hell broke loose he was right in the eye of the storm. :3
Bard: From the graveyard, before capt.h said almost the same thing - "Bard's scum meta seems to be Refuge in Audacity. He outright told us "If UK gets nightkilled IT WAS ME" " Someday the scum team will murder one of their own, and you as town will be instalynched for it. Gambit Karma Backlash!
-
I never claimed Miller. Recall, I said Serp never clarified if I did or did not trigger the test. Everyone else filled in the blanks depending on what was most convenient at the time.
Same as the Vig claim. I just said I'd killed UK, everyone else jumped to conclude I was a third-party vigilante. All I had to do was confirm everyone's theories.
And yeah, someday that'll happen. If you read the scum topic, I've proposed multiple times to NK Huh What.
-
The problem with trying to game the setup, and a huge factor in why Bardiche won, is you have no way of 100% knowing what the scum team is capable of. Trying to game the setup without taking people's actions into account just doesn't work. Role shenanigans can be a suplement to scumhunting, but never a substitute.
This.
I was always really confused on how anyone could think that Serela was scum. Nothing about roles, meta OR the actual game pointed to him being scum except for maybe the failed radio pass (and I still think that's pushing it).
Anyway, good game. That was an amazing fake claim Bard. I'm totally okay with losing to it. <3
-
The problem with trying to game the setup, and a huge factor in why Bardiche won, is you have no way of 100% knowing what the scum team is capable of. Trying to game the setup without taking people's actions into account just doesn't work. Role shenanigans can be a suplement to scumhunting, but never a substitute.
Marry me. :V (And I'm not just sucking up to you because you're about to be a neighbor with a military twice my size in diplomacy. :ohdear:)
Even after Serp's explanation of why the Biologist wasn't overpowered, I agree it wasn't a suitable role especially for this setup. Considering there were three town controlled kill powers, two of which could just clear a person instead.. Just imagine if Conqueror and UK hadn't died Day 1 and the list was Conqueror, Shadoweh, huh what, Bardiche, Schezo.
Well, even though the role was mathematically balanced, I can see why it'd be considered unfun. A Cop can subtly breadcrumb his results, but the Biologist couldn't really have that luxury, especially in such a short game, and so the optimal play was to come out with the results and basically take over the game with them, or else risking having all his results lost with his death. The biggest theme of this game ought to be "scumhunting is irreplaceable," but the close second is "it's not fun when the game is just in the hands of a few players." It's definitely a principle I'll be keeping in mind for any roles I design in the future.
As far as scum's roles being literally unpredictable for town, I realize that I kind of wrote myself into a corner by giving the town its own pretty powerful lineup of roles. If I then kept scum roles at the conventional level, then the game would be unbalanced and scum would be screwed. But by instead going by the mathematically balanced roles in this game, it put the town in a situation where they thought their roles were more powerful than they were. As Kilga said in the Dead QT, players here generally have a low opinion of how well their mods can balance roles, so when they see a role-heavy game by an unproven mod, they assume they can win it from setup speculation. And because townies absolutely should be trying to win every game they play by whatever means are at their disposal, they can't really even be blamed for trying to crack what they have every reason to believe is a setup that can be solved with perfect certainty. To do any less would be playing against their faction, unless they have good reason to believe that the mod hasn't been so foolish.
So, it's a problem that can only be solved by consistent hosting of balanced games that can't be locked down by role shenanigans, to the point that players always assume that scum could have some way out, and their Cop result or shoehorned inconvenience-for-scum-into-perfect-nk-identifier can only be taken as a nudge towards or away from whoever's behavior has been more scum-motivated. Open setups are a nice step towards that, although they won't help polish the good ol' BS roleclaim detector.
-
Actually your case was bad and you should feel bad, Bard. But since I vowed NOT to rage at things I find dumb, I ignored it. Why don't you try hard :P?
That said it wasn't scummy or I'd probably have shot you, so you did well there.
FWIW town should lynch Third-Party on LYLO if only because it'd give them a night of investigation and cull the numbers to make a better, informed decision.
This about the entirity of my rage in the latter half of the dead QT. You were a liability to town, even as third party. You should have been lynched, even if you *had* actually be third party :V
Anyway, yeah, it'd be nice to not die N1 whenever I decide to play mafia, yanno. I mean, yay for being a threat...I guess?
-
/me starts reading scum QT
Yeah, totally can't have changed in 8 months, HW! People *never* change.
Schezo: When was werewolf mafia? Because I'm pretty sure the comment above applies with a more suitable time frame, probably reaching into years.
HW: Well, at least you recognize I'm good at looking town.
Schezo: I still don't get the slip up thing. I mean, sort've, but it's more everyone who's townie should be posting as transparently as possible to show intent.
HW: I totally attributed the quotes from you to Bard, that Serp fed me :V. Also, D1 is where scum get caught. Just not on D1.
Schezo: You're terrible at gender, aren't you?
Bard: Not really. Particularly if they are terrible cases. That said, had others taken it up, I would indeed have been forced to respond, likely with disdain :V. Also, I totally can't change in 8 months. You all were really not very nice. I mean, seriously, why is it ok for you all to be more or less jerks, but I get banned from mafia forever when I say anything remotely like what you all were spewing in that QT.
Bard: But, I was acting pretty town, since obviously I wasn't getting voted. That said, again, 8 months. Way to fail guy. Also, what inquiries besides your terrible ones :P? I like the telegraphing the third party claim on D1.
Bard: Maybe I was trying for a lack of aggression in general? Nah, that's not possible, people don't change in 8 months ever.
OK, you aren't talking about me anymore so obviously I don't care. Though I may talk theory about the rest :P
Oh, wait. Bard, seriously, for "not resenting me", you were about 5000 times worse than I even came close to this game.
Bard: I tend to mod vote forever anyway, whatchoo talkin' bout? And for not hating me, you sure put up a damn good show. I'm not sure I like you, honestly. You're far more petty than I ever thought you were. It's really enlightening. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure I want to play with *you* until you get over this.
tl;dr by post 400, sorry.
-
Yeah I realized a lot of my comments after I said them but I would help if we could have which posts you are talking about. :V Sorry if I offended you for being a jerk.
-
This reminds me of something.
How did Hourai know what was going on in the radio conversations, again? ???
Also since I'm too lazy to do all the crap to get my mentally handicapped laptop working AGAIN after I've moved, I remade my game's setup from scratch, which is good because I specifically rewrote it to make sure it cannot possibly turn into anything like this game or my previous one. Because setup-playing mafia games are unfun for everyone. Hence why even Serp said in the Graveyard that he almost had to thank me for cutting D5 short.
Also I need to read that scum QT! *Gets to work doing so*
-
Hourai could see the scum QT but not post in it I believe.
-
Posting all these walls of text, even if I still love UncertainKitten to bits!
You said yourself that not reacting and ignoring Bard's case wasn't a town play for you, even if his original case was terribad. I don't think anyone meant to offend you for real, in fact everyone's gone out of their way to apologize to you the same as I apologized to the people I was horrible to. I like non-aggressive kitty, let's not fight and have tea instead. :<
-
UK: Protip: scum make bad cases. :V
Were I town I cannot imagine I would've pushed it.
Wall of resentment ninjas me. Oh well. :V
-
Wouldn't it be hi-larious to kill both of the radio talkers tonight and have NeoSerela go QQ? :B
so mean ;_;
So I was reading Serp saying something in the scum quicktopic that was around the end of N1, about how he hates me and I claim like an idiot.
Then I realized he was just repeating Shadoweh's radio message and I went "...oh yeah, I remember that now :V"
-
But you said earlier you thought the case was good :V. If we're on the same page about the case, then cool.
And I feel you could have easily avoided that resentment. I tried for a fresh start. I feel like that's been pretty much shit upon. Why do I even try?
-
And yeah, someday that'll happen. If you read the scum topic, I've proposed multiple times to NK Huh What.
I was the one who proposed that originally!
-
But you said earlier you thought the case was good :V. If we're on the same page about the case, then cool.
I am terrible at BSing cases, of course I need to convince myself.
And I feel you could have easily avoided that resentment. I tried for a fresh start. I feel like that's been pretty much shit upon. Why do I even try?
What resentment? I was annoyed you went "NOT WORTH MY TIME" and everyone else went "... k", and I do admit I was partly motivated by wanting to avoid a bitchfest later on (and I don't care how long it's been), but taking you out N1 proved to be valuable and was already agreed on by the other two scum as well.
Like I said, there is no resentment from my side. I assert that we simply do not get along in Mafia games, but if you wish to extend this to outside the game, then that is fine by me and I will adjust behaviour accordingly.
-
I resent that you chose to NK Colt over Edible :V
-
I should probably apologize
This.
I was always really confused on how anyone could think that Serela was scum. Nothing about roles, meta OR the actual game pointed to him being scum except for maybe the failed radio pass (and I still think that's pushing it).
Anyway, good game. That was an amazing fake claim Bard. I'm totally okay with losing to it. <3
Honestly, I started thinking that Serela was putting on a facade to get out of posting content after a while. Remember I had to pick between either Neo and Huh What team or Edible. Biologist turns town against town very, very fast, and people outside the list aren't really available for discussion. By that I mean I can't afford to talk about them because there's a guy that's either scum or has proof that the two guys next to me are scum; if the biologist flips town, he's convinced the whole town that two out of me and my two buddies must be scum.
Basically, Neo was my only option when Edible got NK.
And I'd like to point out that I shouldn't be the only player that was skeptical of Bard's fake claim. It was the single most absurd role I've ever heard of in a mafia game. Mostly pointing this out because I don't want to have to back down the next time someone makes that kind of 3rd party claim; especially if the player is a serial killer.
-
ITP Miller Survivor Conditional Vigilante isn't absurd at all! :D
-
The claim made sense at the time and even more so with the info Edible was sitting with.
-
To be fair, it's not entirely absurd, especially given that I never claimed the miller part. Recall, I never argued one way or the other re: the detector, or not zealously. It is you people who decided I was a miller.
In effect I claimed ITP Survivor/conditional Serial Killer, which is not that absurd at all.
Originally I wanted to claim bulletproof, too.
-
The claim made sense at the time and even more so with the info Edible was sitting with.
At the time it sounded like a very shallow cover for a serial killer.
Although I did also want to kill him because I couldn't believe two out of me, Neo, and Huh What were scum and I really needed the night for town to gather information. But Neo opposed that plan, and preferred sacrificing me and Edible at the same time. Course by that point I kinda didn't want anything to do with the madness anymore, so it seemed kind of appealing.
But for next time, we know scum + 3rd party = town is an autowin for scum, and we should lynch the known third party first.
-
But for next time, we know scum + 3rd party = town is an autowin for scum, and we should lynch the known third party first.
No, because there are different kinds of third parties that function differently, and even a survivor could work differently if the mod so desired to play it that way. I wouldn't be surprised if a different mod had the game keep going with 2town1survivor1scum, since Town could still win.
-
Also, while Bard's claim was great D3, on D4 it was much less believable as it pretty much came down to me or Bard being scum. Unfortunately no one thought to review this, until me right after I hammered myself. >:
-
Also, while Bard's claim was great D3, on D4 it was much less believable as it pretty much came down to me or Bard being scum. Unfortunately no one thought to review this, until me right after I hammered myself. >:
Serela, so does that mean you had yourself convinced you were scum? :V
-
Eh, I said that I thought Bardiche was something more sinister than a survivor way earlier, I think.
But I thought it was fine to leave him for the time being with the roleblock in place. :(
Unfortunately no one thought to review this, until me right after I hammered myself. >:
I stopped thinking in D3. :V
-
Serela, so does that mean you had yourself convinced you were scum? :V
...:V
Well no, instead I went down the only other possible route I saw, which was Bard not triggering the test, which if I'd thought about Bard maybe being scum for more then 2 seconds I would have realized WOW BARD IS DEFINITELY SCUM WHAT AM I DOING ;_;
-
Actually, I thought once you went down, Zak had to be scum. I was kind of hoping for scum v. serial killer, and was going to try out the prisoner's dilemma.
I didn't think Bard was scum, but I simply couldn't believe his role.
No, because there are different kinds of third parties that function differently, and even a survivor could work differently if the mod so desired to play it that way. I wouldn't be surprised if a different mod had the game keep going with 2town1survivor1scum, since Town could still win.
:wat:
Does this mean next time we have someone claim survivor with vig powers and I suggest we lynch him for time, you're going to declare me scum again and vote for me?
-
Does this mean next time we have someone claim survivor with vig powers and I suggest we lynch him for time, you're going to declare me scum again and vote for me?
In GDC Mafia Schezo got lynched for suggesting town lynch the fake-SK PX.
-
And I was still going, "What in the fuck?" after that.
-
##Vote: Conqueror
##Vote: NeoSerela
EDIT: If you get in the way of lynching a threat to town, I will see you lynched as scum. I will dig up all your posts, show you exactly how anti-town you've been all game without even realizing it, and find evidence that you have been playing less town than any other player in the game. I will associate you with other scum, and tell you exactly how you were their scum buddies. Because anyone who stops the lynches of threats to town is a threat to town themselves, and warrants a closer inspection.
(Though after saying that, now would be a bad time for me to get stuck with third party role.)
-
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, because your prior words do not really gel with your words now, Bard. It reads like a lot of resentment and refusal to let go. How that's at all productive is beyond me. I suppose if you think you weren't resentful, I'll have to take it at face value. But I hope your future words will prove to be more in line with this.
-
capt.h:At the time, his claim was believable and therefore he didn't really seem like a threat to town!
Besides, we still lynched scum ):
And, Schezo got lynched in GDC because, well, PX didn't really seem like an SK, and claimed SKs can be kind of useful for town too and are a threat to scum, and Schezo kept going after "WE MUST LYNCH PX" in a really off way that made him seem pretty scummy IMO. However, I was co-mod, so I knew :V So I may have been affected by, uh, I guess that's that thing called confirmation bias!
But it still seemed pretty scummy to me >:
-
I would not have informed Serp to convey a message that I still liked you even if I did not show it if I were not worried you might take it in another way than I had intended.
If I resented you that much I would not have signed up to play to begin with. You even went through the effort to point out we were in the same game; I would've just backed out if you are someone I strongly resent. I don't play games with people I strongly resent.
Exception clause: Pesco, who I hate as much as I love him. Friggin' mindhax.
-
@Capth: Actually, I think you were the only one with a valid reason to think Serela was scum, so don't feel too bad. :V I was pretty sure you had to be scum before I read the dead QT because Serela was definitely town (him being scum made no sense), the non-Bard people on the list were definitely town and I thought Bard was really a third party. Him shooting UK as a third party made perfect sense, and I didn't expect the scum team to use their hitman N1. More than one-shot hitmen tend to be pretty rare, so I figured it was one-shot, so I figured it would be used later.
I suspect that if I had been playing after you were lynched in that situation my brain would have started short circuiting and I would have had a classic townie meltdown. :V
And I was still going, "What in the fuck?" after that.
I was too. I spent all this time proving that town couldn't win if the SK didn't die EVEN IF THEY LYNCHED MAFIA and they were like "no lol ur scum." :(
-
I was too. I spent all this time proving that town couldn't win if the SK didn't die EVEN IF THEY LYNCHED MAFIA and they were like "no lol ur scum." :(
Isn't it just terrible. :(
Yeah I would like to have heard why from someone without confirmation bias kthx. :V
Really we poured it all out figuring that crap out and lo and behold if there really was a SK, gg.
-
Well, as I said, hopefully in the future your words will reflect your feelings better. I can't tell you how you feel. I have to accept that you just picked poor choices of words. So, we'll see what happens.
-
Yeah I would like to have heard why from someone without confirmation bias kthx. :V
I didn't answer when you asked earlier what I thought of you in GDC Mafia. I was genuinely surprised when you flipped scum that game, in the "What is town doing why aren't they lynching scu-SCHEZO WAS SCUM?!" way.
Bard: You never even claimed third party. You claimed to be 'not in league with town'. Up until you could 'only kill people you vote for' you were only claiming the powers of a Mafia Goon. It made the absurbness of it all more comical.
Serela: Hey don't forget my diagnosis of you as an escaped mental patient :V
-
So my roleclaim wasn't all that absurd, was it? Everyone else assumed I meant "third party", "vigilante". "survivor"! I almost regret specifying I had a condition to killing, it would've been so great to claim Mafia Goon and win the game~
-
So my roleclaim wasn't all that absurd, was it? Everyone else assumed I meant "third party", "vigilante". "survivor"! I almost regret specifying I had a condition to killing, it would've been so great to claim Mafia Goon and win the game~
It's a great role claim if you don't want to be called scum. Not so great if you don't want to be called "serial killer". It was a fairly obvious lie, but it was the kind of lie I would expect form a third party. The real problem is in convincing players that we should kill serial killers.
Though I'm starting to wonder if I should just claim serial killer on the first day of the next round. It seems like the best way to avoid getting lynched is admitting you aren't town and that you kill every night.
"I AM THIRD PARTY"
You've unlocked INVINSIBILITY!
-
Then town would lynch you immediately, I'd think. :derp:
Or at the very least you'd be under town's leash.
Also, Bard
You can nightkill? That sounds like an admission of "I am a mafia goon."
-
So my roleclaim wasn't all that absurd, was it? Everyone else assumed I meant "third party", "vigilante". "survivor"! I almost regret specifying I had a condition to killing, it would've been so great to claim Mafia Goon and win the game~
It was really good. With the other roles in the game and what was going on it made sense, and you put just enough of a limit on it that A) you wouldn't be useless to town alive and B) you couldn't really do anything unless town let you, making you not a priority to lynch.
-
Then town would lynch you immediately, I'd think. :derp:
Or at the very least you'd be under town's leash.
Like Bardiche!
Next time there's a third party, I'm lynching it if it claims. I'm lynching it if it puts us into Lylo. And I'm lynching anyone who suggests we shouldn't lynch the third party.
@Bard - I'm mostly pointing out the weaknesses in your role because I don't want to have this much trouble with the lynch again. You convinced everyone you were not scum including me, but I still thought you were the best lynch because I thought your role was a lie, and I thought you were more dangerous than you let on.
-
Eh, if the game kept going, I probably would have went after Zakeri.
Also, Bard's claim wasn't the most ridiculous. Huh What's claim was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
-
Also, Bard's claim wasn't the most ridiculous. Bard's actual role was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
Fixed that for you. :V
-
Fixed that for you. :V
I admit, you're right. Bard's role make his roleclaim look pretty tame.
-
That too. What was his role again? Did his role turn him into the entire scum team that is immune to cop searches, nightkills, and role blocks, thus turning him into a god?
-
There are times where lynching third party isn't good though. imo, Bard should have been lynched D2 instead of Kilga. I still figured he was third party then, but that was as good a time as any to deal with that. When two mafia are dead there's really no reason to after the third party. In LYLO however, you have to be a bit more careful. In this case, lynching him was probably fine (if he really was third party and there were 1-2 mafia left). Mafia is a very situational game, you can't just blindly say "always lynch third party" much like you can't always say "lurking is scummy."
-
I actually thought my role was pretty damn useless when I got it.
-
Bard: HI I AM A MAFIA GOON THIS IS WHO I KILLED LAST NIGHT
Town: Okay Bard Third Party Survivor Vig that Wins with Town No one Touches Bard!
I almost thought it was a message to someone like ReV about how to claim without lying or outright stating your role.
All this talk about serial killers and leashes reminded me I wrote some things up after dying, after Kilga used a big word and I looked up what it means. Of course, it is a cozy mountain of text :D
Unilateral thinking and vigilante kills.
A vigilante is not a role that lets town vote to get another lynch that day. A vigilante is a role giving a command for that player to pick a person they want removed from the game in order to further their side's win condition. Pretending this is a group decision is a fallacy. It will ALWAYS be the decision of one player. That player should be held accountable for taking the action regardless of if the majority of players agreed with it or not. Arguing otherwise is effectively the same as disregarding seperate votes in lynches because a majority of players had to vote for someone. If the vig doesn't think the majority pick is scum, they shouldn't kill them. There is no way to guarentee the majority wasn't swayed by scum logic, while your alignment is 100% confirmed. By this logic it's more advantageous for a scum or third party vigilante to kill whoever town wants them to. It removes blame from them, gives them townie cred and moves town closer to a loss. This is all ignoring how vigilantes in general are pro-town roles.
-
Oh yeah, to add on to the brokenness of Bard, he can also listen in on the temp masons chats.
-
Bard: HI I AM A MAFIA GOON THIS IS WHO I KILLED LAST NIGHT
Town: Okay Bard Third Party Survivor Vig that Wins with Town No one Touches Bard!
I almost thought it was a message to someone like ReV about how to claim without lying or outright stating your role.
All this talk about serial killers and leashes reminded me I wrote some things up after dying, after Kilga used a big word and I looked up what it means. Of course, it is a cozy mountain of text :D
Unilateral thinking and vigilante kills.
A vigilante is not a role that lets town vote to get another lynch that day. A vigilante is a role giving a command for that player to pick a person they want removed from the game in order to further their side's win condition. Pretending this is a group decision is a fallacy. It will ALWAYS be the decision of one player. That player should be held accountable for taking the action regardless of if the majority of players agreed with it or not. Arguing otherwise is effectively the same as disregarding seperate votes in lynches because a majority of players had to vote for someone. If the vig doesn't think the majority pick is scum, they shouldn't kill them. There is no way to guarentee the majority wasn't swayed by scum logic, while your alignment is 100% confirmed. By this logic it's more advantageous for a scum or third party vigilante to kill whoever town wants them to. It removes blame from them, gives them townie cred and moves town closer to a loss. This is all ignoring how vigilantes in general are pro-town roles.
This is also all ignoring that the only thing 100% confirmed alignment means is that the action is theoretically well-intended. It sure as hell doesn't guarantee a scum dies, and if you claim vig and then stick your fingers in your ears as others present ideas you're not only doing the town a disservice, you're outright ruining the game for whoever is in your crosshairs regardless of their alignment. If you're going to take a unilateral action like that, just do it immediately. Don't make people dance for your amusement.
I can only guess you haven't been playing long enough to see the same number of people with vig roles be wrong that I've seen.
-
To be fair? Town voting on the vig doesn't tend to work out well either. I'm naturally of the school of vig and town be damned. Though I'll also note I use vigs to policy kill people that aren't going to help the town, so my opinion is probably for a different playstyle.
-
Obviously a public vig vote isn't going to be perfect either, but it's going to be a more informed decision by default, which is a good thing more often than not. And scum may very well try to get their opinion in on who to kill! They'd be stupid not to. That's where it becomes your duty as a good townie to take a look at all the suggestions and weigh the merits of each one. Do your research into the points that are being used to back up the opinions if you feel you need to. Make the most informed decision possible to maximize your chances of hitting scum. You certainly don't have to listen to everything everyone says, but it's exceedingly arrogant to the point of being anti-town (and anti-fun) to tell everyone you have an extra kill if you are operating under the assumption you have seen everything there is to see and that no one is going to point anything out worth reading.
-
Contrary to the way this argument is going, There is no good way to play a day vig other than to just "Hit scum." and that strategy by itself... well, it's on the level of "Shoot it until it dies." in terms of usefulness in application.
-
That's where it becomes your duty as a good townie to take a look at all the suggestions and weigh the merits of each one. Do your research into the points that are being used to back up the opinions if you feel you need to. Make the most informed decision possible to maximize your chances of hitting scum.
I know you got the impression I wasn't listening to anyone but this is what I was trying to do. There was a huge problem in that most people's views were from the perspective of "Hourai was full scum therefore X" which I believed to be wrong, so not only could I not use half the arguments, I had to go look at Bardiche alone since everyone else was clearing him for his accidental bussing. I even stuck to someone on the list of 'people we needed to kill' :/ You can call it confirmation bias but I don't think I was hiding what I thought of your alignments when I was roleblocked and pleading with you to take another look at Bard. What's bizzare about this argument is you're the one you were trying to convince me to kill and you're upset that I realized you were town and refused to shoot you.
I didn't say it was perfect, just that the vig should use their own judgement to make the best decision. I can't remember reading a game here where the vig hit scum. It was obviously a mistake to declare it like that. UK has quite eloquently convinced me of her vigging ways.
-
Though, Shadoweh, I'll also note I'm not *right* that often with vigs. Well...maybe slightly under 50% right with them. I don't get them often enough!
-
I'm not upset that you changed your mind away from me (at least, not in the grand scheme of gameplay theory discussion). I was more upset that you appeared to be putting a lot of effort into justifying a course of action that made the game lose all entertainment value.
To be honest, if you hadn't posted the thing I quoted I wouldn't have even thought to continue the discussion. >_>
-
Finally finished reading the scum QT.
I think I only got out of that because MotK has a hard-on for elaborate fakeclaims. I will dub this phenomenon "Appeal to K4U".
I'm totally using this phrase. :V
-
Kilga is moreso referring to "give me one reason not to shoot you", when you admit that "no matter what I was going to shoot you" - it's demanding someone put in extra effort even though you've already resolved yourself to remove them from the game but refuse to explain exactly why you are shooting who you are shooting. Being removed from the game when you're town is always a bummer, so you do them a disservice by putting yourself above them and making them amuse you for no particular reason since you've already decided anyway.
I was being chided back in game for refusing to put any effort after you threatened to shoot me, but that's because there's no fun in futile actions.
-
K4u had the best scum teacher, you can't expect any less of her.
Hwy Kilga you were quite the unfun jerk when you ##Yuyuko Doll me in Patchcon :V
-
Hwy Kilga you were quite the unfun jerk when you ##Yuyuko Doll me in Patchcon :V
It would have been amazing if you had actually flipped scum.
And yeah, quote of Huhwhat is pretty much true.
-
You know, Huh What has a point.
Anyone claiming a point system for their role, or claiming a role that has more than two separate parts tops, is probably scum and should be lynched immediately. This applies even if they were 100% honest about their role (I think the last two jack of all trades role claims were scum, and Bard's really complex role was a scum role).
I'm not saying lynch all jack-of-all-trades, just all players that reveal all the parts of an overly complicated role.
-
Or you could lynch people for being scummy regardless of whether or not they pass or fail some arbitrary role-related litmus test. >_>
-
Or you could lynch people for being scummy regardless of whether or not they pass or fail some arbitrary role-related litmus test. >_>
Yes I can, but MOTK likes elaborate fake role claims a bit too much.
Basically, my main rule for next game is that if there exists a case against the player (and I mean a real case, not a flimsy grammar issue), lynch them. I'm mostly setting up my filters against fake role claims after this game. It might be better to ignore any non-verifiable role claim completely.
-
Ridiculous roles are a staple of bastard moddery and role madness, I wouldn't declare it immediately scummy.
-
Bard: I was only asking in case you had a Conqueror-esque kill yourself role. Your post was very convincing :p I've resolved to explain my insanity more clearly in the future regardless of role.
capt.h: There have been real points based roles that were town before. The Miller Bulletproof that gets a vig everytime he's shot comes to mind. You have to weigh the claim against their actions, as well as decide if there's another reason they could know what they know. You shouldn't clear someone for a claim and you shouldn't insta-lynch someone for one. Unless they claim ability to write the morning flavor :D
-
A role has nothing to do with the alignment. Stop building preconceptions that will just make you look like an idiot for trying to play by a formula.
-
tl;dr: Mafia is a qualitative reasoning game, not a quantitative one. Just read the people, and if you suck at it, get better.
-
Fair enough. Roles can be insane.
A role has nothing to do with the alignment. Stop building preconceptions that will just make you look like an idiot for trying to play by a formula.
There are a lot of advantages to looking like an idiot in mafia. :V
I'd argue that looking like an idiot is much wiser than looking intelligent. ;)
-
Fair enough. Roles can be insane.
There are a lot of advantages to looking like an idiot in mafia. :V
I'd argue that looking like an idiot is much wiser than looking intelligent. ;)
...Which is why I had to lurk out most of the game.
I've completely forgotten how to be an idiot.
-
No, looking like an idiot gets you vigged or lynched, particularly when you show nothing of your ~*~underlying intelligence~*~.
If you want to protect yourself by looking like an idiot, pray to whatever deity you worship that I don't have a gun.
-
One day, someone in AnonyMafia will have the brilliant idea of posing as a derpnoob and everyone will give them free passes forever.