Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: the old guy on April 26, 2017, 09:35:31 PM

Title: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on April 26, 2017, 09:35:31 PM
SPOILER SPACE PLEASE DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T CATCH UP ON FORBIDDEN SCROLLERY.
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Welp, Kosuzu's fucked. There's no way this is going to end happily without some serious bad writing. So i'm expecting a bittersweet ending at the least.

Maybe this will come up in Antinomy of Common Flowers? Possessed Kosuzu would be a epic boss.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Hello Purvis on April 26, 2017, 10:16:53 PM
Given we have at least two people skilled in dealing with possessions, I don't see why it's necessary for it to end poorly at all.

I mean, and this is before we get to people who could ad hoc it, like a knowledgible buddhist or taoist, or someone who can fuck with borders, or heck a ghost princess. I see no need for doomy gloom at all.

That said, Kosuzu in Antinomy would not be unwelcome!


Edit:
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *It'd be fun to beat up Kosuzu*
<DracoOmega> Hey, I wanted to PLAY her :P
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *Also fine*
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *But I'm much more excited about beating her up with Reimu and letting Reimu live the dream*
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *Or Marisa, while shouting "NEEEEEEEEEEEERD!"*
<DracoOmega> Hahaha
<OneLoveOnePurvis> *Pasting this in the thread*
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on April 27, 2017, 12:37:45 AM
First of all, I want to say that there will also be small spoilers for Touhou Ibarakasen, by the end of this post. But mostly FS Vol.46-50.

It pretty much all started when Mamizou approched Akyuu so she could write her a book about Tanuki under her alias "Agatha Chris Q."(*1) After the meeting, Akyuu runs to Reimu to warn her about it and wheter or not they should warn Kosuzu about she's been manipulated by a tanuki. In the end, they decided to tell her. As a result, she was shocked to find out. So much that it put her perspective of human-youkai relationship into question. So, she went and ask Marisa and Akyuu about it. However, even if she didn't like Akyuu's attitude toward her question, she did tell her something that struck her hard: there are an infinite number of truths. Then, she meets with Yukari who silver-tongue her into admitting that she has an admiration for abnormal/youkai and that Yukari is ready to protect her from Reimu while making-sure she's also dealing with Youkai. Then, she's seen leaving the book store and leaving the village willingly with a bag of scrolls. In the lastest chapter, Reimu is seen pretty musch questionning all the youkai she has dealt with and both of them came up with alibis, siding with her. Mamizou made other Tanuki search for her and Aya wrote an article on how she went missing. In the process, Reimu hypotizes that she might have been spirited away but that quickly been shut down when Marisa thought finding Reimu and talks out loud about the "Night Parade Picture Scroll". Then, a seemingly wicked Kosuzu appears in front of Marisa and "reads" the last portion of the scroll releasing whatever there is within.

Now, what strikes me as odd in all this is the possession argument that pops-up now because we know a new game about possession is coming up with the backstory mentionning "An opponent who cannot be bested by anybody alone?". The thing is, yes she was manipulated by youkai but, at the end, she acted alone of her free will. She could've just do nothing of it, just do nothing of Yukari's "show of strength". But, Yukari being Yukari, she Silver-tongue her into admiring youkai. If you'd admire youkai so much, what would you do? Would you try to follow their footsteps? I think that's pretty much what happened here: she admitted herself to it ("her truth"), she took her most dangerous scrolls with her and went into hiding for a few days which led into the vol.50 happenings. I *personally* think that she wanted to become youkai herself, so she could be stopped being used as a tool so that youkai might, maybe, convince her of looking at her youma books. So, because of that, while there are precedents of manga chapters heading into games, I think it's this manga's main plotline starting for real (it isn't called "Forbidden Scrollery" for nothing right?) and that it's just the timing with AoCF being incredibly lucky.

That's my personal take on it. I'd love to see a known human of Gensokyo turning youkai, get away with it and live on. So, that's why I'm just hoping that the FS and AoCF stories will be stories of their own.

*Prepares to have his argument to be destroyed*

(*1) I still lol every time I see that
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on April 27, 2017, 12:57:15 AM
She's definitely fallen under paranoia and dark influences, but I'm of the opinion she's not being possessed at all.  She chose this path, and now she must walk it.
Though this is certainly an Incident, it's probably not AoCF.  That is something entirely different, growing out of the Urban Legends.  However, we don't know anything about HSiFS yet besides the characters' seasonal affiliation, so there's plenty of room for that to factor in.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TresserT on April 27, 2017, 01:31:40 AM
I was under the impression that Kosuzu's simply discovered the truth behind Gensokyo, the way the fortune teller did. She realized that humans are basically just cattle for the youkai right now. Her line about humans always suffering shows pretty clearly that she has an issue with the current situation of the world, or at least her place in it. I can see things going one of two ways.

She might admire youkai in the sense that she wants to become one, and between the Youma books and Yukari's protection she can do so. She's basically following the path of the fortune teller. She doesn't want to be cattle, so she's going to become a youkai.

The other interpretation is, she admires youkai in the sense that she admires their power. Unlike the fortune teller, she isn't just unhappy that she's a slave to the youkai, she's unhappy that humanity as a whole are slaves. Using the Youma books and Yukari's support, she's going to overturn society and make humans strong enough that they don't have to be slaves to youkai. Obviously this goes against everything that Gensokyo's about, though, so Reimu would be put in a tough position here. She'd either have to side with youkai and knock humans back down, or side with humans and risk destroying Gensokyo.

The thing I'm totally lost on is why Yukari would be helping Kosuzu in either situation. In LoLK she seemed pretty fine with Gensokyo being cleared away by Lunarians, and she doesn't seem to care about the occult balls changing Gensokyo's nature, so... I'm wondering if maybe her feelings about things are changing. Or I could be totally off the mark in both cases.

As for AoCF, I totally expect Kosuzu to be playable. Since we're getting 5 characters, she might even be the penultimate that teams up with the final boss.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on April 27, 2017, 01:55:56 AM
Okay fine, I may jumped the gun on Kosuzu's fate. Maybe they'll beat it out of her and she'll come to her senses. But I worry that the ending will be anticlimactic, I don't want a simple stasis co ending where she goes to back to her normal safe life of book keeping, I want something that has consequences.


The thing I'm totally lost on is why Yukari would be helping Kosuzu in either situation. In LoLK she seemed pretty fine with Gensokyo being cleared away by Lunarians, and she doesn't seem to care about the occult balls changing Gensokyo's nature, so... I'm wondering if maybe her feelings about things are changing. Or I could be totally off the mark in both cases.
How do you know? All Yukari said was that those incidents were below her. There's nothing to prove that she wouldn't gave a shit if Gensokyo was destroyed, maybe she just had faith that Reimu would have sorted it out.

As for Yukari's motivation, I think her plan is for Kosuzu to turn full Youkai, only to be brutally murdered by Reimu soon after, then the news will hit the human village, sending the message "Don't become Youkai, your ALL sheep and that's what you'll always be, nevermore."

So really, its to remind the humans of their place. Touhou is a pretty dark series if you think about it!
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TresserT on April 27, 2017, 02:21:02 AM
I wasn't pretending like I knew for sure, all this is just guessing. And didn't Yukari say something like "it doesn't matter if Gensokyo changes" at the end of LoLK? My memory's a bit fuzzy so I might be getting the details wrong. I was just under the impression that she cares more about the concept of Gensokyo than its actual inhabitants.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Jeremie on April 27, 2017, 04:16:58 AM
I feel this is pretty interesting because the story can now head in so many directions. It can be indeed anti-climatic, dark or surprisingly lighthearted in the end. Going for a very dark tone would be interesting seeing how a lot of fans, still to this day have a very lighthearted view of the setting, calling Gensokyo an (x15)"Utopia(x15)". Some of the things that might happen might upset some of the fans and make them dislike some characters all of a sudden.

On the other hand, is there any chance that Kasen and Kosuzu team up for 15.5, serving as final bosses? I mean, that's highly unlikely but they both appear to be interested in shaking up the foundation of Gensokyo, meaning that their views "might" be compatible even if they happen to have opposite personality issues, thus expanding on Kasen views as well and also converging their story together. Again, I think that's unlikely but that would probably bring a "Holy Shit Quotient" to the series.

I also think all of this is sort of hilarious in hindsight. Many years ago I hosted a sort of Touhou D&D campaign. The final confrontation of the first story was against Kosuzu. Still, again, while I think the chances of her becoming a character in 15.5 have indeed increased to a certain degree, I have a hard time thinking her becoming the final boss will happen but nothing is really predictable when it comes to the series seeing how little minor dialogue bits can be used to excuse the presence of a character in a game.

Edit: Oh that or the Fortune Teller is coming back. I'm not saying it'll happen but I'm calling it just in case it somehow happens.  :V
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on April 27, 2017, 04:35:35 AM
* Note that the Chapter 50 is Part 1 of 2. So, we'll have an "ending" to the current problem or know more in the next chapter at this time next month.
* As you guys know, Yukari has her own reasons to believe what she does and why she allows Kosuzu to be in the situation she's in. Remember what was her motives for the SSiB events? Yeah. If not, very brief summary:
So she can steal this special sake from the lunarians to pay for the "Reisen, Eirin and Kaguya's residence in Gensokyo" tax.

Sophilia and TresserT pretty much cover my opinion on the whole. Summaries my thoughts way better than I did in my wall of text.

P.S I wanted to say more but I kinda forgot. I guess later.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on April 27, 2017, 05:03:34 AM
Don't put yourself down too hard, I mean this:

I *personally* think that she wanted to become youkai herself, so she could be stopped being used as a tool

is a pretty fair summation of the situation in itself.  Of course, she still is a tool, unless she turns on Yukari in part two.  I wouldn't put it past her given the mindset she's in. 
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: CyberAngel on April 27, 2017, 06:25:00 AM
To reiterate what I said elsewhere, I'm amazed how much sense the title makes now. That damned scroll appeared near the beginning and was pretty much forgotten about, barely surfacing again. But now we see that, indeed, it's a powerful piece of scrollery that would've been best left forbidden to use.

Also, why are you people so sure Kosuzu HASN'T become a youkai already? That would be a bit too drastic for Touhou, but still, I see nothing to indicate it's "just a possession".
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 27, 2017, 01:19:03 PM
I would have opinions on this subject but it's so much easier for Clarste to have them (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/160039190361/seriously-kosuzu-is-being-possesed-and-that-being) for me (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/160040356821/so-wait-is-lil-suzy-possessed-or-is-she-gone-off).
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 27, 2017, 02:20:27 PM
Might be a bit minor, but since it still is related to the chapter, I might as well drop it here.

When Marisa goes to the Hakurei Shrine to tell Reimu about an emergency (not knowing that Reimu is currently not there), she hears a voice coming from the nearby woods and immediately assumes that's Reimu. Marisa tells "Reimu" about Kosuzu's disappearance, citing the Night Parade Scroll and all the other Youma Books that have disappeared along with Kosuzu. And its only at the end of the telling that Marisa finds out she is in fact talking to a wicked-looking Kosuzu.

Here's the problem: Why can't Marisa tell the difference between the voices of Reimu and Kosuzu...unless:
1. Reimu and Kosuzu has the same voice to begin with. Or...
2. Wicked!Kosuzu has the ability to mimic another person's voice perfectly and completely.

This might be unnecessary Wild Mass Guessing, but I'm just wondering.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on April 27, 2017, 02:27:07 PM
I don't think it's that important. She was in the bushes and replied to her question, and there would be nobody else around, so it's easy for Marisa to have just assumed it was Reimu.

I mean that whole part was pretty manga-cliche. "It's you!!"
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Shizzo on April 28, 2017, 03:38:59 PM
With Kosuzu gone I wonder how Aya is even able to distribute her newspaper in the first place.  Will she just go door to door handling it over?

Also, discussions like this make me wonder why we don't have a semi-permanent "Print Works discussion thread" like a handful of other threads around.  Would be useful for discussing new chapters and such.

Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: nyttyn on April 28, 2017, 06:43:00 PM
In making my speculation post I wanna say I'm of the mind to have a few assumptions here. I'm also assuming the intent was fully brought across in the english translation, but I won't cherry pick too terribly with exact verbiage - intent is what's important here, and inevitably some things framed in english will add nuance that was never intended to be there (hello possession v possession). Also I'm probably going to be in part or totally wrong here - but hey, that's the fun of speculation.


1. Motoori won't die.

This one's probably the most obvious. FS ending here would be rather abrupt, unsatisfying, and that being said...Yukari rather explicitly intervened mentioning she was aiming to 'save' Motoori. Which leads to assumption 2:

2. Yukari has an endgame here, and it isn't busting a youkai out of the scroll.

Or at least, not merely. If all she intended to do was do a jail-break for a friend, acquiescence, etc - she of all people would have an exceptionally trivial time simply nicking the scroll, and getting the seal on it busted. But pushing Motoori all the way over the edge did have a helpful effect here, which leads me to believe that:

3. Yukari's endgame is, primarily, cutting off the Youkai influences to Motoori and, by extension, the human village.

Right now, Motoori has: published Youma books for the kappa (unknowingly), distributed a newspaper for Aya (knowingly), and been approached by Mamizou who's rather borderline threatened her to gain access to her Youma books. As things stand, this makes Motoori a source of influence and power for two factions, and potentially a third. Of those, one of them even rather blatantly wants power and influence over the human village. Compounding this issue is that influence from the Youma books as well as actual Youkai is doubtlessly having an effect on Motoori.

As Yukari is rather keenly interested in the stability (not necessarily always the same as a balance of powers, but in this case it is) of Gensokyo as a whole, Motoori's status as '(un)witting pawn bringing about influence and power for various factions, especially over the human village' probably isn't sittin' well with her. On top of that - this is purely speculation on my part, but it doesn't seem like Yukari necessarily agrees with the fate FS has not so subtly foreshadowed's in store for Motoori if she keeps down this path of her own accord.

Key phrasing here being "of her own accord."

So far, the only on-screen transformation we know of from human to youkai was the fortune teller - but keep in mind that Reimu doesn't have qualms with Youkai as a whole existing, nor does it seem to be a sin for a human to have become a youkai (See: Keine). The key difference here was that the fortune teller deliberately turned himself into a Youkai and, as a result, intentionally violated that balance of power.

But wouldn't it be a different story if there was an out, an excuse - of someone becoming a Youkai not of their own accord nor intent? After-all, the night parade scroll is a dangerously powerful Youma book - perhaps the youkai inside's sheer presence is powerful enough to curse the reader. And if that's the case - hardly Motoori's fault, and if it isn't Motoori's fault, Reimu has no reason to put her to the sword.

Now, I don't necessarily think this is the only outcome. It's entirely possible that, if everything else I've said holds true, Motoori might learn to use the Youma books and control them whilst remaining a human. But the only outcome where a endgame of "promoting Motoori from a pawn so she can't get pushed around and forced to be a influence" makes sense is one where she has the power to fight back. And I think with all the foreshadowing in the past, it likely makes more sense for this to be Motoori's forceful push to the other side - and one that wasn't even her fault, since the youkai in the night parade scroll more or less forced her hand in a way that wasn't entirely (or perhaps even at all) of her own free will. But again, it's not necessary for her to become a youkai outright - simply learning to use the Youma books for her own defense would likely suffice to satisfy the demands of this theory.

Either way, I highly doubt this ends with everything going back to the status quo - it feels more like we're going down the path of a new meta-arc, one where Motoori has to deal with newfound powers. Perhaps if Yukari hadn't directly intervened I'd be more willing to buy that, but with her stepping in so directly I don't think this is going to end with Motoori "stop sticking your hand down the garbage disposal" Kosuzu remaining powerless. But her gaining powers doesn't necessarily mean that the status quo is irrecoverably changed - it simply means she now has the agency to make decisions beyond "agreeing with whatever decision people want to force down her throat," and can forge the truth she wants, for herself. With the convenient side effect of removing her as a easy scapegoat for Aya and co to push around as they please.

also this outcome allows for playable motoori in ACoF without her being the star of the show and man i love the parallels you can draw with motoori's appearance here and her appearance on the cover of volume 1
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: shockdude on April 30, 2017, 04:56:14 PM
I caught up with FS because of all the discussion about it that popped up in various places. I bet I'm not the only one who did so, haha.
Totally worth it.

Scroll-influenced Kosuzu is cool, and there are a lot of directions where she could go, but I personally don't think she'll show up in a game simply due to the timing. There's three more FS chapters to go in this volume, and surely Kosuzu can't be possessed in all of them. But that begs the question of what exactly will happen in the last two chapters in particular.

I'm more interested to see how Reimu responds. Reimu and Kosuzu have had a pretty good friendship, but now Kosuzu's gone rogue and attacked not just another human but Reimu's best friend since childhood.
What will Reimu see when she confronts Kosuzu? A youthful bookseller or a traitorous ex-villager? Reimu's gonna have a lot of conflict in her mind, and that's gonna be fascinating to see next chapter.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on April 30, 2017, 10:38:03 PM
Either way, I highly doubt this ends with everything going back to the status quo - it feels more like we're going down the path of a new meta-arc, one where Motoori has to deal with newfound powers. Perhaps if Yukari hadn't directly intervened I'd be more willing to buy that, but with her stepping in so directly I don't think this is going to end with Motoori "stop sticking your hand down the garbage disposal" Kosuzu remaining powerless. But her gaining powers doesn't necessarily mean that the status quo is irrecoverably changed - it simply means she now has the agency to make decisions beyond "agreeing with whatever decision people want to force down her throat," and can forge the truth she wants, for herself. With the convenient side effect of removing her as a easy scapegoat for Aya and co to push around as they please.

Exactly. That's why I don't buy Clarste's explanation: Yukari. If Yukari wanted the scrolls, she wouldn't ask Kosuzu. She's probably along the few youkais that can *technically* bypass her and just steal it. But since she approached Kosuzu and said "I'll protect you from Reimu", there's a greater goal than the scroll. There's also the fact that she, Yukari, implies that something already happened to Kosuzu. If Kosuzu is human, why does Yukari need to go out of her way to protect Kosuzu from Reimu who protects humans? If Reimu knew of her opinion, she would probably slap Kosuzu and say "Bad bad Kosuzu! Youkais are bad, period!". But not farther than that.

I'm more interested to see how Reimu responds. Reimu and Kosuzu have had a pretty good friendship, but now Kosuzu's gone rogue and attacked not just another human but Reimu's best friend since childhood.
What will Reimu see when she confronts Kosuzu? A youthful bookseller or a traitorous ex-villager? Reimu's gonna have a lot of conflict in her mind, and that's gonna be fascinating to see next chapter.

Yep. Exactly. If she let it go, it might hurt her reputation (which is already not great) and hurt personally in the long run. But, if she does take of Kosuzu, she will fulfill her duties but at what price? Because It might not be a status-quo solution.

I always saw Reimu walking on a plank/tightrope: if on one side she decides to devotes to her duties, practice her skills, etc, she could amass faith for herself, and not her "god" (if it (still) exists that is). We must remeber that Reimu is pretty much a gifted Shrine Maiden. She's just good at what she does without any training. But if she trains? Yeah. On the other hand, if she becomes too lazy, only take care of incidents that only affects her personally, fail at her duties (talking extremes here I know), she could become hated. The opposite of faith. I'll let you come to your own conclusions for this.

But yes, Reimu is also another pillar in this. Mamizou doesn't give a damn but decided to give one anyway. Likewise for Aya. Marisa cares because it's her friend too and *coughcoughcoughbookscoughcoughcough*.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on May 01, 2017, 02:35:24 AM
Exactly. That's why I don't buy Clarste's explanation: Yukari. If Yukari wanted the scrolls, she wouldn't ask Kosuzu. She's probably along the few youkais that can *technically* bypass her and just steal it. But since she approached Kosuzu and said "I'll protect you from Reimu", there's a greater goal than the scroll. There's also the fact that she, Yukari, implies that something already happened to Kosuzu. If Kosuzu is human, why does Yukari need to go out of her way to protect Kosuzu from Reimu who protects humans? If Reimu knew of her opinion, she would probably slap Kosuzu and say "Bad bad Kosuzu! Youkais are bad, period!". But not farther than that.

Several people elsewhere have noted the parallel between Kosuzu's story and Mary's.  So if there's anyone who knows about this kind of slow transition to youkaidom, it'd be the former Mary herself.  Though, whether she passed the point of no return is still a matter of opinion.  Even her friends are split on it, to be honest.
Marisa and Aya still considered her totally human up to this point.  Akyuu saw the danger but didn't consider it too late to educate her.  But Reimu had labeled her as jinyou twenty chapters ago, and Mamizou has been preaching her fall for even longer.
As for me?  I won't be surprised if she's been an unknowing youkai as far back as her Love Letters powerup.  But I also won't be surprised if it was just this spell casting that finished her transformation.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on May 01, 2017, 03:41:13 AM
There's also the fact that she looks... kinda ageless. Besides from the mention "Our ages aren't even that far apart" from her in chapter 48, means that she's a bit younger than Akyuu (who's around 22/23 if born in 1994) but she doesn't even look like it. She doesn't look like a young adult at all.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Hello Purvis on May 01, 2017, 05:03:54 AM
Plot twist: Not only is Kosuzu still human, it turns out Mamizou was a human wizard the whole time and didn't know it.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 01, 2017, 05:29:00 AM
There's also the fact that she looks... kinda ageless. Besides from the mention "Our ages aren't even that far apart" from her in chapter 48, means that she's a bit younger than Akyuu (who's around 22/23 if born in 1994) but she doesn't even look like it. She doesn't look like a young adult at all.

Nobody ages physically in Touhou. Reimu and Marisa are supposedly in their mid-20s already, but they still look like preteens...
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on May 01, 2017, 06:13:40 AM
Marisa and Aya still considered her totally human up to this point.  Akyuu saw the danger but didn't consider it too late to educate her.  But Reimu had labeled her as jinyou twenty chapters ago, and Mamizou has been preaching her fall for even longer.
As for me?  I won't be surprised if she's been an unknowing youkai as far back as her Love Letters powerup.  But I also won't be surprised if it was just this spell casting that finished her transformation.
There's also the fact that she looks... kinda ageless. Besides from the mention "Our ages aren't even that far apart" from her in chapter 48, means that she's a bit younger than Akyuu (who's around 22/23 if born in 1994) but she doesn't even look like it. She doesn't look like a young adult at all.
Ehhhh. Kind of the mark of a youkai is that they act and exist like a youkai. I don't really think it's possible, as far as the series is concerned, to secretly be a youkai without knowing it and having no particularly non-human traits or behaviour. If anything I'd think such an occurrence would happen when a human is simply unaware that they've changed so much that other people already treat and think of them as a youkai, kind of like in the case of Ichirin but less obviously.

Nobody ages physically in Touhou. Reimu and Marisa are supposedly in their mid-20s already, but they still look like preteens...
(http://i.imgur.com/Y8p1HfM.jpg)

no aging going on here
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TresserT on May 01, 2017, 01:58:34 PM
no aging going on here

That's not all that fair. I don't think he literally meant no one ages, but you definitely can't judge a character's age by their artwork since a lot of official artists draw them like preteens/teenagers regardless of their real age.

Also these are 11 years apart too so shrug.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/153o5g4.png)(http://i63.tinypic.com/vgj01x.png)
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on May 01, 2017, 02:31:13 PM
Yeah, I'd not consider the artist's design staying consistent as a point for or against their species.  ZUN himself has said he's reluctant to give Reimu and Marisa actual ages because it ruins the immersion.  Plus, Kosuzu being super cute has an entirely different symbolism in this case; namely, her innocence.

If anything I'd think such an occurrence would happen when a human is simply unaware that they've changed so much that other people already treat and think of them as a youkai, kind of like in the case of Ichirin but less obviously.
We'd need a wider sample of people to judge, then, since those closest to her are of different minds about it.  To that end, she was still selling books and newspaper up till Yukari showed up, so Joe Human probably didn't think things too out of the ordinary.

Plot twist: Not only is Kosuzu still human, it turns out Mamizou was a human wizard the whole time and didn't know it.
Oh come on.  A wizard?  She's clearly a ninja.  :V
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on May 01, 2017, 03:13:30 PM
That's not all that fair. I don't think he literally meant no one ages, but you definitely can't judge a character's age by their artwork since a lot of official artists draw them like preteens/teenagers regardless of their real age.
It's the same artist.

I'm being tongue-in-cheek here; your point is also my point. You can't say they're "supposedly" some age while also saying they "look" a certain age when artists will draw them however they imagine.

We'd need a wider sample of people to judge, then, since those closest to her are of different minds about it.
I mean, surely you wouldn't say that it's generally believed in-universe that Kosuzu is a youkai. That's what's important, not so much that some people think she's closer to youkai influence than average.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Valar on May 01, 2017, 03:33:59 PM
I actually have a feeling that Kosuzu didn't attack Marisa, and the witch ended up unconcious for some other reason. Her reaction after she woke up is too light-hearted for someone whose friend just betrayed and attacked her, don't you think?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 01, 2017, 11:43:03 PM
I actually have a feeling that Kosuzu didn't attack Marisa, and the witch ended up unconcious for some other reason. Her reaction after she woke up is too light-hearted for someone whose friend just betrayed and attacked her, don't you think?

Or maybe Marisa, as an airhead, is more concerned about being given a funeral when she is still alive... :v
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: shockdude on May 03, 2017, 03:41:19 PM
Just curious, how has the Japanese community responded to this chapter?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on May 04, 2017, 04:40:43 AM
"wow" "oh no"

Obviously a lot of comparisons to 25 have been made and there's similar discussion of Kosuzu becoming a youkai, becoming a part of the new games, etc, but that's all really low-hanging fruit. Response is similar but maybe not as much dumb meme outrage about the fortune teller.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: martelefort on May 17, 2017, 03:00:29 AM
Maybe i'll repeat what others already said but hey i'll give it a try.

First i think Kosuzu will be the boss in AoCF. But she doesn't even need a special ability to do it . In my opinion, she isn't posessed in FS, just got a lil' drunk of her newfound power. Im pretty sure she just ( maybe with a little help of Yukari on how to do it ) unsealed the youkai out of the scroll, that youkai is the one doing the possesion thingy. The " an ennemy too strong to defeat alone " is, i'm pretty sure, just yourself getting posessed and your partner has to defeat you. I think it might fit Kosuzu, as she thinks  equally about youkais on humans (as seen on the fox chapter), so by making a youkai possessing a human and vice-versa, it could give the all " now i know what it feels like " stuff. I think she basically wants what a lot others want as well : a peaceful life with humans and youkais as equal.

As for why Yukari made a move, i agree with nyttyn that she's bothered about the human village's information that youkais try to get hold off by targetting Kosuzu. Akyuu is pretty much untouchable, so Kosuzu is the logical place to control informations. Yukari has already been seen to be " against " youkais, by training Reimu or telling her to exterminate well, so i guess she thinks that another youkai controlling the information wouldn't suit her plans.

The parallel with the fortune teller is obvious, but i think it was more of a foreshadowing as well as a a way to build-up tension. It showed that Reimu is actually the " peacekeeper " of Gensokyo's equilibrium and that she doens't mind killing stuff. Keep in mind that when Yukari say that she wants to save Kosuzu from Reimu, Kosuzu doesn't even know that Reimu killed the fortune teller ( and in a very cold way ), so it was more to say to the reader " yep, Kosuzu might get herself in trouble ".

There is also the parallel with WaHH, as both Kosuzu and Kasen made it clear that they wanted to overthrow things, but as for now it is quite unclear, so i can't say much, though i theorize Kasen's strategy is more grandiose that Kosuzu.

As for how Reimu will respond and the following events of FS, it won't be solved fast i think. Sure, it's part of a two-chapters story, but the title is " Reimu's miscalculation " so the next chapter will just continue on Reimu realizing the trouble, she won't solve it right now. I'm sure she will resolve the accident and things will remain just as they were before, just like any other incidents in the past. I agree that it would be quite disapointing, but it seems that's how things goes in Gensokyo. Maybe it'll have an impact on how Reimu regards the youkai-human relation, but i doubt it.

That was a lot of text. And of course, what i just said was pure theory and only ZUN holds the response there.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Zelinko on May 18, 2017, 12:09:53 AM
I actually disagree with the idea right off the bat for one reason.

Say you're a reader of FS and see this big plot buildup in story for it only to solved off screen.

If the last issue was more stand alone and set up as Forbidden Scrollery Volume 7 Extra: Antinomy of Common Flowers it'd work better.

SaBND's Great Fairy War extra was a standalone story that was a backstory to 12.8.  FS50 was the buildup of a long chain of events and will get it's payoff in book.

For what Kosuzu's doing and the outcome I can't seperate her actions enough from the all but inevitable Revenge of the Sith parodies to fully get going without her and Reimu doing a HIGH GROUND parody.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 27, 2017, 04:33:11 AM
Chapter 51 has just been released.

All I have to say is...

GODSDAMN YOU, YUKARI! YOU *insert every single profanity ever existed in English here* GAP HAG! I'M GONNA STRANGLE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE IN HIGAN, AND THEN I'LL STRANGLE YOU EVEN MORE!!!
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 27, 2017, 04:47:16 AM
Chapter 51 has just been released.

All I have to say is...

GODSDAMN YOU, YUKARI! YOU *insert every single profanity ever existed in English here* GAP HAG! I'M GONNA STRANGLE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE IN HIGAN, AND THEN I'LL STRANGLE YOU EVEN MORE!!!

What happened?  :wat:
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Jeremie on May 27, 2017, 05:46:57 AM
Personally I'm pretty underwhelmed. Without wanting to sound mean, I feel the story went from pretty intriguing to immediately taking the most predictable route of all. I hope the follow-up will subvert that and end up being far more interesting.

On the other hand, I think it's nice that Sayo and Manuke are teaming up again.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 27, 2017, 06:09:22 AM
What happened?  :wat:

Let's just say that
Yukari is successful in convincing Kosuzu that Reimu and Marisa are the villains
...
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on May 27, 2017, 06:25:16 AM
That's the events of 50, dude.  51 is
two battles to save Kosuzu's soul.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TresserT on May 27, 2017, 06:45:19 AM
Yeah, I feel like this chapter didn't give us that much. It just confirmed what we could have inferred. Some interesting things that we got though; Reimu would kill Kosuzu if she had to, and Yukari was planning on Reimu killing (or at least attacking) Kosuzu. Hmmmmmmmm.

Also, since we have 2 chapters left before comiket, I can totally see this leading into AoCF even if it doesn't use the game directly for the story's resolution. Though if AoCF gets delayed due to it not being completed that might be awkward.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on May 27, 2017, 08:09:32 AM
That chapter was weak. Next one better make up for it.
GODSDAMN YOU, YUKARI! YOU *insert every single profanity ever existed in English here* GAP HAG! I'M GONNA STRANGLE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE IN HIGAN, AND THEN I'LL STRANGLE YOU EVEN MORE!!!
Why? Sure, she might be doing something bad, but we don't know what her ultimate goal is yet. She may not want Kosuzu to die.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: PK on May 27, 2017, 08:40:05 AM
I don't think Yukari wants Kosuzu to die. I think her subject matter here is to see if Reimu would "protect Gensokyo's balance" regardless of who is the one involved.

Fortune teller she doesn't know that only wants to join the "winning side" without hurting anyone? Split him in two with no remorse or a second of hesitation.

Girl she knows that messes with dangerous youkai stuff all the time despite various warnings and purposedly releases a demon that both Mamizou and Marisa consider incredibly powerful? Obviously has to be someone else's fault and the girl must not be hurt.

Yukari didn't expect it, she probably considered Reimu the perfect guardian that would act the same against everyone.

My hope is that it doesn't just end like the WaHH chapter where Yukari gets "beaten" and simply puts up a show of fake apologize.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Jeremie on May 27, 2017, 09:02:33 AM
Fortune teller she doesn't know that only wants to join the "winning side" without hurting anyone? Split him in two with no remorse or a second of hesitation.

Girl she knows that messes with dangerous youkai stuff all the time despite various warnings and purposedly releases a demon that both Mamizou and Marisa consider incredibly powerful? Obviously has to be someone else's fault and the girl must not be hurt.

I think it's not that simple when it comes to the fortune teller. He flat out killed himself, manipulated people to get what he wants, complained about the relationship of humans and youkai and then claims he just want to go live his life quietly. With all of that done, it's kind of hard to believe him and with an attitude like he had, there was nothing to really prevent him to go around and share his experience with other humans. His actions turned him into a genuine threat to the balance of Gensokyo and thus he had to be dealt with. That and I assume the whole killing himself made it impossible to revert what he had done. The other man Reimu killed also appeared to be completely lost as well and thus was dealt with.

Kosuzu's situation so far seems to be much different and it might be possible to save her so it would make sense that'd they try to do that.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Zelinko on May 27, 2017, 10:50:08 AM
So read 51 and well Page 10: Why translate that to rumbling when that was... MENACING

Later on it was left fine as it was.  Also TANUKI RUSH KEKEKEKEKEKE!

But yea on the merchant the guy was just a meat puppet at that point.  Remove the infestation and there's nothing left.

Still TANUKI RUSH!!! Wonder if they'll be shape shifting during the fight.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: andykhang on May 27, 2017, 11:19:06 AM
More than it's predictable, I think what you guy would like to see is a bit too outlandish. It's as if you want to have the worst route possible for this thing to change genre.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: martelefort on May 27, 2017, 12:57:30 PM
I just read it, and it wasn't that bad of a chapter was it ?

It's a trailer for two epic battles so the next one may be super good. maybe.

but yeah, the route here is the most simple
More than it's predictable, I think what you guy would like to see is a bit too outlandish. It's as if you want to have the worst route possible for this thing to change genre.

Even without wanting a bad outcome, I would like to see something a bit more complicated than just " I'm Yukari, i did it cause i felt like it, now let me fake being sorry and i'll go to sleep ".
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: CyberAngel on May 27, 2017, 01:43:09 PM
Please, people. This manga series isn't the kind to feature huge battles. Next chapter will probably be the epilogue, with the scroll destroyed but Kosuzu going on with her business. I mean, did you seriously hope for something big and game-changing? In an official Touhou manga? HAH!
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: martelefort on May 27, 2017, 01:44:28 PM
Cmon , let me have a bit of hope there. And i don't expect it to be  " game-changing " but i hope it have some repercusions on the universe.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on May 27, 2017, 01:53:03 PM
Boyyy, i think this is the first time that an "incident" in FS aren't concluded in 2 chapter. Feel like final arc, is this going to be last Volume?

I feel like Kosuzu gonna end up with some youkai attribute or something else beside her omni-reading abilities (had no better idea to word it lol), and spared from Hakurei due to Yukari meddling.
I really doubt Yukari gonna win the duel.

On the other hand, I think it's nice that Sayo and Manuke are teaming up again.
Who?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on May 27, 2017, 02:45:02 PM
My hope is that it doesn't just end like the WaHH chapter where Yukari gets "beaten" and simply puts up a show of fake apologize.
I very much doubt it. That "beat up" in WaHH, it's because she took the blame for Kasen in order to hide their meeting. She wasn't being serious about that "off-screen" battle.
However, in this case, she's being very serious and has a very serious objective in mind. The resulting battles will exciting to be the least. Also, it will be the first real action scenes since ever? There was SSiB but heh, it was one-sided from the beginning.

(Now onto my projections)

Regardless, Reimu not deciding to attack Kosuzu and went to Yukari "surprised" her of which most likely reconsidered immediately what to do and what the outcome most be. And this is why she's serious about this. However, even if her thinking prowess is far far far superior to Reimu and could think of thousand of scenarios in a minute, Reimu has the advantage of, well, having beaten her up 2-3 times already? On the Mamizou's side of the battle, she's here with the Scroll youkai that absorbed a ton of tsukumogami and her with hundred tanukis. To be honnest, I don't see this ending well for her. I don't even count the tanukis in the battle yet. Not yet, because, I'm unsure of what they could do. They will probably transform into weapons or something.

As for Kosuzu, it looks grim for her. Simply because Reimu decided to aim for Yukari first. It won't end on status-quo and that's for sure.

And I smell the end of the manga very very soon too and I also believe that this will lead into AoCF.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: andykhang on May 27, 2017, 04:23:56 PM
Though ,probably, Yukari already calculated this result and know this in advance already, and her being "surprise" is an insult to Reimu's "triggerhappy" tendency. And remember, all of this "defeating" is not only in term of SC, but even in that she's just playing around. And I think you're underestimating the ye olde Tanuki abit there, she isn't the Tanuki boss for nothing.

Agree that this series would probably end though, not sure the status-quo would change much though.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on May 27, 2017, 05:01:41 PM
Sure, she's the boss of the tanuki but, remember, she was afraid of the scroll just moments before receiving a confidence boost.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Suspicious person on May 27, 2017, 05:11:04 PM
It’s kinda interesting that Yukari, who initially claimed to want to protect Kosuzu from Reimu, would somehow get Kosuzu to be in a position that is very much like a target for Reimu. Anyway, while Yukari might seem like a shifty duplicitous trickster, whenever she gets involved, she usually has some kind of goal that serves Gensokyo’s well being on the long run, while not necessarily as beneficial for the involved parties. As far as this current arc goes, I’m of the opinion that Yukari is targeting Kosuzu’s night parade scroll. What kind of plan exactly and what she might want to do with it, I dunno, but it’s possible she want to have some control over it or straight up take it out of the circulation :

One of the recurring theme of FS is youkai politics, but when it comes to youkai relations and their standing in general, power is key : the strong rules, the weak are just there. Youkai politics is, from what I can tell with FS and DDC, essentially 2 things : Youkai-on-Human politics, AND Youkai-on-Youkai politics.

The Youkai-on-Human politics is especially simple : Humans MUST be at the bottom of the barrel and stay there : Human fear is needed, and Youkai must be strong enough to command fear.
And for the relationship between the Youkai or their own politics, simply put,  the strong rules (which is pretty much a key point in DDC) : for example Yukari is the strongest youkai in Gensokyo, so she call the shots, do whatever she wants and get away with it.
But the thing about strong youkai in Gensokyo is that it’s not like they pop out of the blue : most of them have been there for quite a while, and as people who are fairly aware of how things roll in Gensokyo, they don’t cause trouble (or they do but within the rules), and as for the minor / weaker youkais, they cannot do anything that go against the rules, no matter how much they want to, else they’d get put in their place (pretty much ISC ?)
Basically, Gensokyo have rules : the strong respect them so everyone else better follow suit.

So… what’s kind of problem could have been introduced by FS ? The night parade scroll.
On one side,It can empower youkai and even give birth to tsukkumogami, so it’s already not too power balance friendly, as far as youkai-on-youkai politic goes : it could help whatever youkai hold it rise up in the power hierarchy : it could be problematic if it ended in the wrong hands.
And on another side, it contains an especially powerful youkai : if the strong rules the weak and guarantee order by pretty much being some kind of dissuasive force for whoever want to break the rules, a STRONG NEWCOMER who is NOT necessarily familiar with the rules of Gensokyo and might not be kept in check is obviously going to threaten the order in Gensokyo.

One key point is that the Human Village needs to be preserved so pretty much everyone (youkai) who know what’s good for them will make sure to do so : interference (the bad one obviously) with the Human Village, for youkai, is obviously a taboo. Yet the very nature of youkai is such that they must be at odds with humans : they are enemies.  Gensokyos’ youkai know the relevance of the human village so they won’t do anything too rash towards it… but what of the youkais who are not familiar with that ? They are going to be, like, some sort of danger.

Considering all of that, It should be pretty obvious that the night parade scroll is an artifact that can put the power balance in peril.

My guess is that whatever plot Yukari is cooking revolves around the night parade scroll and that such plot requires Kosuzu to a certain extent (else she wouldn't involve her). Where exactly does Kosuzu comes into play in that, I dunno. At any rate, I can't clearly see how Yukari is protecting Kosuzu with all of this. Maybe she's just a stepping stone towards her objective ? We'll see what this is all about in the next chapter(s ?), I guess. Besides, there's still a question that begs to be asked regarding what exactly happened between Kosuzu leaving with her Youma books and her coming back at the Shrine.

At any rate, this chapter kinda answer the "what's gonna happen to Kosuzu if (...)" question from a while back, so there's that. Kosuzu has some crazy luck.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 27, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
Thai folks over here speculate that this chapter might be connected to 15.5 because the phrase "completely possessed" in the chapter is written as 完全取り憑かれて or 完全取憑.

However, it is written 完全憑依 in 15.5, a minor difference. So, ZUN continuing this plot into AoCF is still a possibility!


EDIT: Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery volume 1 has been licensed by Yen Press and is now available for pre-order on Amazon. However, there is no an official announcement yet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/6doa61/yen_press_has_licensed_touhou_suzunaan_forbidden/
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TrueShadow on May 29, 2017, 08:46:59 AM
So, no comment that the scroll contains an oni? Possible fourth deva?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: andykhang on May 29, 2017, 11:11:20 AM
...I don't think so, really. The power of collecting, and the fog...sound too much like a certain drunk loli, in her heyday as the force of evil
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: martelefort on May 29, 2017, 01:23:52 PM
That's an interesting point, i doubt it tho, but if it's true it's going to be intresting, and will link it to WaHH most likely.

Also i just noticed Reimu opens a gap and jump into it to teleport herself, it's the first time i see it in action, just like Yukari's power actually.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: PK on May 29, 2017, 03:56:51 PM
I can see how the scroll could be related to Suika. Remember that some of her titles are also about being the "night parade of one hundted demons"? And that thing is a oni with some kind of gathering ability, other traits Suika shares.  Weird.


Also i just noticed Reimu opens a gap and jump into it to teleport herself, it's the first time i see it in action, just like Yukari's power actually.
I wonder if it's because of her urban legend, the Gap Woman? She should be able to actually teleport without gaps, right?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TresserT on May 29, 2017, 05:53:28 PM
Reimu's barrier abilities are extremely similar to Yukari's boundary abilities. Ever since.... I want to say IN, Reimu's been training with Yukari off and on to refine those abilities. She was definitely training with Yukari by SSiB at the latest. Reimu's been becoming more and more Yukari-like for a while now, in terms of what she can do.

Just as an example, Yukari could jump from one side of the screen to the other in SWR/Hisou. In HM, Reimu gained this ability too. Just as one example of many that I would have to look up to talk about.

It's probably more than just the urban legend, is what I'm saying. Thought it is cool to see just how far they've come.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on May 29, 2017, 11:38:26 PM
Yeah Reimu's barrier warping abilities have been long established really. It isn't something strange, I'm actually quite happy ZUN chose to show it now rather than have her just fly up there. Especially when it was used to go confront Yukari herself.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on May 30, 2017, 01:43:48 AM
It also reinforces what was said by Mamizou and Reimu earlier, that Yukari and Kosuzu were hiding in the Outside.  So Reimu and Yukari are on the Outside shrine's roof, while the other two are on the shrine grounds in Gensokyo.

This reminds me, what was the exact wording of the location of Yukari's home again?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Alrysc on May 30, 2017, 02:45:17 AM
This reminds me, what was the exact wording of the location of Yukari's home again?
"Along the northeastern edge", I believe is what she said. The same place where she pointed out the holes in the barrier to Reimu before the fight in PCB, I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: andykhang on May 30, 2017, 05:09:39 AM
I can see how the scroll could be related to Suika. Remember that some of her titles are also about being the "night parade of one hundted demons"? And that thing is a oni with some kind of gathering ability, other traits Suika shares.  Weird.I wonder if it's because of her urban legend, the Gap Woman? She should be able to actually teleport without gaps, right?

Oh yeah, she does being called that. Guess someone managed to replicate, or even trapped a bit of Suika's power back then, into the scroll. The alternative would be that Yukari made it, but then that wouldn't explain why does she want to destroy it now, or even want to used it in the first place.

Also, I don't think they're on the Outside. The roof are too new for a shrine that's supposively being abandone for more than a century. I guess they're in some other part of the shrine (though that kinda make her gapping a bit unnessesary)
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on May 30, 2017, 05:23:43 AM
It also reinforces what was said by Mamizou and Reimu earlier, that Yukari and Kosuzu were hiding in the Outside.  So Reimu and Yukari are on the Outside shrine's roof, while the other two are on the shrine grounds in Gensokyo.
I don't think this is true? For someone who doesn't go to the Outside World herself, Reimu casually jumping over to the other side doesn't seem likely. Even just with ULiL they needed Kasen to properly admin-access their own way across. They're probably just in different spots on the shrine grounds.


I can see how the scroll could be related to Suika. Remember that some of her titles are also about being the "night parade of one hundted demons"? And that thing is a oni with some kind of gathering ability, other traits Suika shares.
百鬼夜行 is not an uncommon theme in japanese folklore, of which the 百鬼夜行絵巻 is one famous work. Meanwhile with Suika 百鬼夜行 is just referring to her ability to split up into hundreds, making it thematically relevant but not literally.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Clarste on May 30, 2017, 01:07:58 PM
For the record, Mamizou's full line there is それが百鬼夜行絵巻の鬼の力なんじゃな。 In case anyone wants to analyze exactly what she said.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on June 27, 2017, 05:54:05 AM
hey guys look
IT'S FUCKING NOTHING
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on June 27, 2017, 08:45:26 AM
hey guys look
IT'S FUCKING NOTHING

Spoiler-less summary on what happened in chapter 52? Its not translated yet...
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Zelinko on July 03, 2017, 03:40:47 PM
Spoiler-less summary on what happened in chapter 52? Its not translated yet...

No really that is the spoilerless summary of it.  It's filler.  No resolution at all.  Just wait till next month...
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on July 03, 2017, 11:38:18 PM
It isn't actually nothing, and not really filler either, but it isn't a direct continuation of what's immediately going on in the way everyone wanted to see.

That being said, since it's extremely unlikely that this plot will bleed over into another volume, it means everything is probably going to be handled in Chapter 53 to finish up Vol.7.
EDIT: That is, unless the events of this resolution end up sparking the entire next arc, which would definitely be new for FS in terms of narrative.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on July 05, 2017, 08:17:52 AM
So now that Clarste has retired from translating FS, who's in charge of translating ch52?
I'm dying to see what is actually going on with it...
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on July 05, 2017, 06:40:37 PM
So now that Clarste has retired from translating FS, who's in charge of translating ch52?
I'm dying to see what is actually going on with it...

Apparently, it's being worked on and that "we'll know soon enough who they are (subbing it)".
It's like I said, he should have at least finished the story line and/or wait for Yen Press officially confirm FS to the west.

We could wait for months unless somebody here with enough Japanese skill says "fudge it, I'm TL-ing".
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on July 10, 2017, 03:34:27 AM
As i posted elsewhere:

We're back. (http://www.google.com) This time the translation's from some buggers named "Etarnity Lurvers".

Please "enjoy" this weak filler chapter. Hopefully the next one will have shit ACTUALLY FUCKING HAPPEN.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on July 10, 2017, 05:31:01 AM
Content Warning: Complete anti-climatic filler that goes no where and completely fails on a fundamental storytelling level. Seriously ZUN? You can do better at this. You know somethings wrong when fucking fan fic writers are better at writing fight scenes than the creator of the series they're writing for. Weak.

Not at all. While "nothing happened", the fact that the huge buildup has been swiftly cut to this means something. I believe the atmosphere here to be somewhat a fault of the translation group since they missed several important establishing points in the chapter.

If anything it's people's expectations of having a big dramatic fight scene that is out of line with the series. You know this isn't a shounen battle manga. Maybe Mamizou will dish out some shit next chapter.



This translation is pretty awkward and stilted. Some more important notes:

- The title of the chapter omits that this is Part 1 of "Yukari Yakumo's Peace".

- The talk between Marisa and Sanae about "miracles" has no emphasis on the point whatsoever and overlaps the use of 不思議 with 奇跡 which confuses the whole thing. I don't think anyone involved got the point of this. This chapter continues from the previous VFiS chapter where the Fairies made all the trees magically bloom. Sanae mentions that she thought the trees were blooming late, which was pointed out in that chapter, and Marisa's response is "well you're right, but something mysterious happened", referring to the Fairies, and mirroring what she says at the end of that chapter. Sanae uses this to springboard and say causing mysterious (不思議) things is her job, upon which they actually comment on miracles (奇跡), and the page ends with Sanae says "speaking of mysterious (不思議) things, leading into the next page about the strange plans. "Speaking of miracles" makes no sense here and this whole context seems to have just been dropped entirely.

- Hanami*, *tn hanami means flower viewing? Really guys?

- "Previous flower viewings weren't this peaceful" -> "Flower viewing days usually aren't this quiet", i.e. usually they're more lively. Hence the solemn mood. This entire chapter is meant to evoke a sense of unease and framing it as "peace" misses out on that.

- "So you are assuming that she was kidnapped" -> "So you're treating this as though she was". Semi-important distinction; this is how they're handling the situation, but is not necessarily Akyu's personal assumption. This is why the next bit follows...

- "That fits with the rare occurrences of previous etc": This seems to imply the human village literally changed form somehow and gives the wrong impression. Following from the previous panel, "Ever since the current state of the Human Village, assuming that a youkai caused it matches the few serious events that have occurred", or something. She's saying it's common sense within the village to treat the case as though it was the doings of a youkai.

- Aya goes through the reasoning of "when considering a world without many requirements, that would be the outside world, wouldn't it" so obviously the conclusion she makes should be "outside world" and not just "another world". She does only say "spirited away", but backtracking to just "another world" makes no sense. Also, it's somewhat important to note that Aya does use the term 異界 ("otherworld") here. The translation currently uses "other world" but nobody would ever know this is meant to be the same term. She basically says "in addition to Gensokyo, many so-called otherworlds exist".

- Akyuu suddenly mentioning a flower viewing is meant to surprise Aya, and implies that the gathering is related to the discussion. Probably could come across better.

- "Nameless devil in shadows" -> "Nameless demon that was nothing but a shadow", or something. It literally looks like a shadow.

- "Why did you mention it now" -> "Why would it appear now"; hence showing the scroll it was sealed in. Or even just "why now of all times" to keep the ambiguity.

The last few pages are also done super weird, but aren't as important in terms of narrative or mood.

Overall I feel like the intended atmosphere of the chapter has been lost a bit. It's really easy to look at this chapter after the big buildup of the previous chapters and think it doesn't make any sense, but the swift cut at the climax to this atmosphere is supposed to be disturbing.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on July 10, 2017, 06:15:54 AM
Well, shit, now i'm worried about for the quality of the up coming chapters.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Jeremie on July 10, 2017, 06:32:44 AM
I actually hope there won't be much fighting. I mean, besides the earlier ones, fighting is indeed not really a part of the Touhou manga series. We do see some instances of it but often, it's skipped or it genuinely exists to establish an element of the story which is explained through the battle. I feel the "battle" between Reimu and the three faeries is good example of the former while the one between Yukari and them is one of the latter. We do see some violence and things like that but generally, those manga have a more... how can I say... "cerebral" feel to them? If we get to see a fight in 53, I feel it might be brief or it'll have a focus on dialogue between the characters.

Personally I feel the weakness of this chapter is through the overall lack of content even though it's indeed here to set up 53. Yes, we do get new information about Mamizou and that an unusual party is set up but I feel the chapter suffers due to the fact that we are given information we, the reader are already aware from some of the earlier chapters which I feel severely undermines the tension going on. Whether we get any fighting or not in 53,  personally I'm pretty sure it'll be an interesting chapter if it catches up and/or follows up on the previous chapters. Eitherway, 52 is not even that bad and I think it's fair to believe ZUN completely knows what he's doing and while the translation isn't perfect based on what you've shown us Drake (thanks for clarifying some of the content of the chapter), it's still great that those who can't read Japanese are able to continue seeing more of the story.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: CyberAngel on July 10, 2017, 06:43:43 AM
God, I'm so tired of this silly entitlement in the western fanbase when some people start talking crap about ZUN's writing just because things don't go the exact way they thought they should go. Soften up, people, let the official story be as flexible as ZUN wants. Besides, I called it:

Please, people. This manga series isn't the kind to feature huge battles. Next chapter will probably be the epilogue, with the scroll destroyed but Kosuzu going on with her business. I mean, did you seriously hope for something big and game-changing? In an official Touhou manga? HAH!

So it wasn't impossible to predict how the manga would go. As Drake said, FS is no shonen series. Enjoy it for what it is instead.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on July 10, 2017, 01:19:12 PM
But still, that kind of killed off any hype the entire fanbase has for chapter 53, or everything after that point in FS...

I guess I won't be looking forward to ch53 at all...

EDIT: A relative of mine is so pissed at it that he decided to rechristen Forbidden Scrollery as Forbidden Screwery. Talk about being the most disappointing thing in Touhou canon since Hopeless Masquerade...
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Spotty Len on July 10, 2017, 03:07:43 PM
But still, that kind of killed off any hype the entire fanbase has for chapter 53, or everything after that point in FS...
Yeah, no, you shouldn't generalize that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TrueShadow on July 10, 2017, 03:51:02 PM
The lack of action after last month's cliffhangers is disappointing, yeah. But honestly, FS has always been a mystery manga rather than action. Like, this entire chapter feels ominous. Kosuzu's still missing, Reimu's nowhere to be seen, and it has an eerie title like "Yukari Yakumo's Peace". This doesn't feel out of place at all.

Talk about being the most disappointing thing in Touhou canon since Hopeless Masquerade...
Hopeless Masquerade introduced Kokoro, so any argument about it being disappointing is null and void. :P
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: PK on July 10, 2017, 05:25:24 PM
We are going to know what happened in ch53, maybe ZUN decided to make it a flashback instead of a continuous thing because the flower viewing (and thus the fact that flowers blossomed suddenly) had to happen a bit before HSiFS and something important happens during the party itself, which apparently includes only the important characters.

It was quite short, though.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Shizzo on July 10, 2017, 07:13:33 PM
People really need to stop acting like their opinions + 2 of their friends opinions = the ENTIRE WESTERN FANBASE, FROM EUROPE TO AMERICA, AFRICA AND ANTARCTICA.
cue to penguins reading FS

I for one liked the ominously peaceful chapter, especially since the last one was anything but peaceful.  Just the fact that Marisa of all people is manning the shrine already shows that there's some pretty weird things happening.  Who's behind this flower viewing anyway?  Who invited everyone?  Why selective invitations?

I'll be excited for whatever happens in the next chapter, be it a huge fight or some twist-filled-yet-calm explanation over sake to what happened.

And the translation itself, I liked it.  But in regards of the translation's quality, it's understandable that it isn't top notch AAA quality, but let's all remember that whoever did this just started.  This is their first translation of FS, after all.  Give them time so they can start picking up the pace and figuring out where they improve. 
Posts like Drake's are good - provided the translators are within this community and see it - because they can learn the little quirks of the narrative and point them out with better clarity next time.   

So yeah, Kudos to Eternity Lovers!
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on July 10, 2017, 08:48:26 PM
So, we got a Chapter 48.3. Nothing really happens but I guess it shows the mood in-between. However, Akyuu willing to trust Aya, a tengu, just to attend a flower viewing. That's just weird.
This chapter made me remember those fillers that you find in Naruto and One Piece.
The worst is that Part 2 will only come in September.

However, it does confirm something: Zun wants to build up the story into probably a game.

*snip*

Dude. Why aren't you translating instead?! You seem much more agile with Japanese that they are. At least, be their QC >.<

Regardless, it gives us a rough idea for us that don't have a clue. Just having it somewhat translated, I'm really happy about it.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on July 10, 2017, 09:27:15 PM
Yeah, with all the action going down, it's easy to lose sight of the horror that FS is trying to convey.  To me, it just ratchets up the suspense another few notches, which is honestly what I think ZUN was going for in the first place.  True that the Incident seems to have been resolved, but how?  Why?  At what price?  Where's Kosuzu?  What's Kosuzu?  Anyone who's followed the series this far has at least a few of these questions haunting them.  And whether they're indignant they haven't been answered yet, or scared of what the answers may be, this mood is deliberate and serves to draw people in to the conclusion even further.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Nook on July 10, 2017, 09:32:04 PM
"September Issue" does not actually mean they're waiting until September to continue the story. Chapter 52 of FS was in the CompAce August Issue, despite being released in June.

Anyway the content of the chapter is fine but the translation is terrible and really takes me out of it.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TresserT on July 10, 2017, 09:50:58 PM
Personally I'm just grateful somebody was willing to translate it.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Shizzo on July 11, 2017, 02:06:03 AM
Personally I'm just grateful somebody was willing to translate it.

My thoughts exactly.  Solemnly having a translation is already amazing. 

For me, a high quality translation is (whist certainly welcome) totally not mandatory.  I'll be saving my demands for top notch, quality translation when I buy Yen Press' volumes. 
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on July 11, 2017, 04:15:22 AM
Personally I'm just grateful somebody was willing to translate it.
Regardless, it gives us a rough idea for us that don't have a clue. Just having it somewhat translated, I'm really happy about it.
Hey, I said exactly just that did I?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: martelefort on July 11, 2017, 02:58:10 PM
Here comes some random thoughts i had : the chapter titles seem to follow a pattern since chapter 46 : character's name plus their actions on the universe that matters, and the last chapter is no exception.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: BernkastelWitch on July 11, 2017, 08:08:52 PM
The latest chapter was a bit underwhelming but it is a bit unnerving of how it was presented. I feel like there's more to this than it seems.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on July 12, 2017, 09:57:43 AM
Dude. Why aren't you translating instead?! You seem much more agile with Japanese that they are. At least, be their QC >.<
Hahaha I am not fast whatsoever.

Anyways, I really would rather not put myself in a position where a hungry and often entitled fandom is putting their expectations on me to deliver content for them, especially so when that would seem like I'm "filling in" for another respected translator that stopped for reasons I would feel like I'm stepping on if I ignored. Sorry if it seems rather harsh, but my goal is absolutely not to deliver content, my goal is to inform people so that they will be less wrong about the series and can better appreciate its delicious gooey filling. One could easily argue that the best way to do this would be to provide the translations myself (which I already do in some capacities), but not only do I not quite have enough confidence for that as a translator nor as someone who would be able to accurately pull apart all of the references, but I do not feel comfortable being the source of distribution of the manga for people.

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that 99% of overseas fans do not subscribe to the serialization, and although a key part of this is obviously that people can't read it raw and maybe they even buy the tankobon for the sake of support/collection, it still feels undeserved to me to simply hand out everything to everyone. For comparison to a Japanese audience, the TPPC questionnaire shows that the number of people interested in "Story" is basically the same as the number of people buying the tankobon. But because there's no realistic option of presenting a translation to only some people without having it immediately posted everywhere, there's little reason to get the serialization (and the tankobon offers barely more) besides raw speed of looking at pretty art before you get it for free anyways, and there's no way of getting around that.

Ideally, for me, we would have some sort of system where if you bought the magazine or the tankobon through a service like Bookwalker, you would magically also get a copy of a translation. This wouldn't stop piracy but it would make the line much more clearly defined and appropriately reward those who purchase. I would feel no qualms about contributing to something like that. There's still the licensed tankobon being way behind as a factor, but as long as it isn't garbage I think people would buy it alongside anyways. One very silly but arguably effective move could be to deliberately have inexperienced translators handle quick tl/edits, write down all the errors and fill in the details completely on the side, and leave the licensed tankobon as a premium product so people actually buy it. Maybe that's been my real plan all along.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: CyberAngel on July 12, 2017, 10:49:58 AM
inb4 licensed translation has more errors and lost details than any fan-made one
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on July 12, 2017, 10:28:19 PM
inb4 licensed translation has more errors and lost details than any fan-made one
<offtopic>
And most of the time, this is why I prefer fan TLs over official. Official TLs lack the subtleties of what fandom consider "correct" such as the spellings, the Japanese honorifics, etc. This is the main reason why I still haven't pre-ordered FS Vol.1: I'm just too scared of the translation.

But don't get me wrong: I like to encourage the artists as much as the next guy but I just can't buy something I'm most likely to be disappointed in.

</offtopic>
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Nook on July 25, 2017, 07:28:50 PM
It's over.

Without a doubt the best work ZUN's ever made, and Harukawa's illustrations made it all the better. Sad to see it go.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on July 25, 2017, 09:46:39 PM
From a comment I read on Clarste's Tumblr, apparently, it's sad.
So, that confirms ONE thing: whatever happens with Reimu&Yukari and Mamizou&Possessed Kosuzu is NOT status quo that's for sure. The series ending gave it away. So, we'll only have that... sub group translating the last chapter for us one last time (only for Drake to correct all their mistakes) and we can rest easy as Clarste will "probably" (emphasis on "probably") pick up whatever's next. And now, the fact that the manga's being brought to the west makes a whole more sense now.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on July 25, 2017, 10:13:59 PM
Well then, that means that this entire manga was completely pointless.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TrueShadow on July 25, 2017, 11:26:09 PM
Well then, that means that this entire manga was completely pointless.
...then you're missing the point of the manga. It's about portraying Gensokyo from the eyes of a (relatively) normal human. It could keep going on forever if ZUN wanted to. He just chose to end it now, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: BernkastelWitch on July 25, 2017, 11:35:16 PM
Given how it's ending I do wonder which direction the ending will take us. Most likely not as dark as most people expect it but probably something that'd obviously not fix the status quo an extent. Just my guess.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: CyberAngel on July 26, 2017, 12:17:57 AM
Please, people. This manga series isn't the kind to feature huge battles. Next chapter will probably be the epilogue, with the scroll destroyed but Kosuzu going on with her business. I mean, did you seriously hope for something big and game-changing? In an official Touhou manga? HAH!

Called it. Everybody owes me $5 now.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: game2011 on July 26, 2017, 02:55:32 AM
<offtopic>
And most of the time, this is why I prefer fan TLs over official. Official TLs lack the subtleties of what fandom consider "correct" such as the spellings, the Japanese honorifics, etc. This is the main reason why I still haven't pre-ordered FS Vol.1: I'm just too scared of the translation.

But don't get me wrong: I like to encourage the artists as much as the next guy but I just can't buy something I'm most likely to be disappointed in.

</offtopic>
Localizations are supposed drop honorific and such because they are intended to translate things in ways foreigners can understand.  You'd probably be disappointed with Chinese localizations of Japanese media too, because they don't have honorific.

No offense, but you have a purist attitude going on there.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: TrueShadow on July 26, 2017, 03:55:42 AM
Localizations are supposed drop honorific and such because they are intended to translate things in ways foreigners can understand.  You'd probably be disappointed with Chinese localizations of Japanese media too, because they don't have honorific.

No offense, but you have a purist attitude going on there.
They're just different methods of translations, people can have their opinions which one they like or dislike.

Localization aims at making it understandable at as much people as possible, at the cost of risking losing accuracy and author intent. Direct translation (good ones anyway) aim to preserve context as much as possible, but may require audience to be familiar with those contexts in the first place.

For fan translations I generally prefer the latter. And honestly I'm a bit baffled that Touhou fan translation takes the former way, given how Japanese Touhou is.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Drake on July 26, 2017, 04:29:15 AM
http://www.personaproblems.com/

Recommended reading for anyone who wants to talk about translation methodology because, as I've mentioned in the past, fans often don't really know what they want in this regard. If people are quick to reject or approve of a translation on the basis of topics like honorifics, localized names, and other visibly obvious frills, while not being able to discern when one translation straight-up doesn't convey the ideas of the text or does convey the wrong ideas, they are not really talking about translation. The fact that many people will just accept some translations because they can't tell that they're bad, while simultaneously decrying good translations because their frills aren't the way they want, is a mild tragedy.

When you see people like me do something like "well the original text doesn't really imply that, it says bla, which means more something like bluh", that doesn't mean I'm advocating for a "more literal" translation, that means I'm saying that the translation does not quite convey the correct idea and might convey something else unintentionally. A literal translation in place of that is not a good solution, the solution is more appropriate wording to communicate the correct ideas instead.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: game2011 on July 26, 2017, 04:58:18 AM
They're just different methods of translations, people can have their opinions which one they like or dislike.

Localization aims at making it understandable at as much people as possible, at the cost of risking losing accuracy and author intent. Direct translation (good ones anyway) aim to preserve context as much as possible, but may require audience to be familiar with those contexts in the first place.

For fan translations I generally prefer the latter. And honestly I'm a bit baffled that Touhou fan translation takes the former way, given how Japanese Touhou is.
So I think no amount of Chinese translation can satisfy ignorant purists because of the way that language works when compared to English, official or fan translated.

If you read a Chinese translation of a Touhou manga, don't expect the names Reimu, Kosuzi, or Mamizou to show up.  Instead, you find Lin-Mong, Xiao-Ling, and Duan-Zhang respectively.  This is because those names are translated directly from Japanese.  You might say to yourself you'll read a fan translation instead, but nope, it's still Lin-Mong, Xiao-Ling, and Duan-Zhang.

Chinese is like Japanese in the way that words are compromised of different characters, each with their own meanings. As a result, Japanese names are translate word by word when brought over to Chinese.  Chinese does not work the same as English.

I know someone who because of his somewhat purist attitude has led to him not liking Chinese Touhou stuff solely because of the names being different, even after I explained to him the reason for these name changes.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on July 26, 2017, 06:06:57 AM
Nice to see that there's a happy ending. But sad to see that FS has finally reached its conclusion. Hope that little Kosuzu gets at least slightly significant roles in the other mangas and future games.
Or maybe FS gets a sequel series ala the Three Fairies mangas.

To further game2011's statement...
The Kanji for Reimu, Kosuzu and Mamizou are written in the exact same way in Traditional Chinese as well, as do several other 2hus whose names are written in Kanji.
Take for example: Marisa is written in both Japanese Kanji and Chinese Hanzi as "魔理沙". Same applies to all other 2hus whose names are written in Kanji.
In fact, I could read Kanji despite knowing almost nothing about the Japanese language because most Kanji verbs and nouns, when translated to Chinese, are still written in the exact same way.
There are several exceptions, though.
One of several exceptions I could name is the Japanese word for "airport" (空港). But while "空港" makes no grammatical sense in Chinese (the Chinese word for "airport" is "机场"), anyone who understands Chinese can still tell that the word means airport, as 空港 is transliterated as "air port".
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on July 26, 2017, 06:36:05 AM
Called it. Everybody owes me $5 now.
Yes, you was the only "smart person", and all others was a "complete idiots", because they had dared to believe, that ZUN can write an interesting and serious story. Congratulations, now you can be proud of yourself.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: CyberAngel on July 26, 2017, 07:25:24 AM
Yes, you was the only "smart person", and all others was a "complete idiots", because they had dared to believe, that ZUN can write an interesting and serious story. Congratulations, now you can be proud of yourself.

His stories are interesting and serious enough. It's just that he has his own style. One that can be - surprise surprise - predicted to a degree if you understand it well enough. As opposed to building up some unreasonable expectations and being disappointed that official Touhou material doesn't live up to your self-entitled opinion of how it should be. Just learn to enjoy it for what it is.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on July 26, 2017, 07:47:39 AM
Can you please not be a jerk about it though?
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on July 26, 2017, 07:53:34 AM
One that can be - surprise surprise - predicted to a degree if you understand it well enough.
Oh yea, and this is a good reason for you to laugh at everyone, who have expected something different.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Sophilia on July 27, 2017, 01:30:24 AM
Called it. Everybody owes me $5 now.
I dispute this charge on two grounds.
1) The scroll still exists.
2)
It's about portraying Gensokyo from the eyes of a (relatively) normal human.
Neither of these qualifiers apply anymore, which is why the series had to end when it did.  And that's still kind of a big deal!
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: CyberAngel on July 27, 2017, 06:21:14 AM
I dispute this charge on two grounds.
1) The scroll still exists.
2) Neither of these qualifiers apply anymore, which is why the series had to end when it did.  And that's still kind of a big deal!

If I'd been 100% spot-on I'd demand $10 instead.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: andykhang on July 27, 2017, 01:05:20 PM
Yeah, also expect that thing would just end the way it is. Firstly, Yukari of all people involved in this shit.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Clarste on August 05, 2017, 09:07:55 PM
And honestly I'm a bit baffled that Touhou fan translation takes the former way, given how Japanese Touhou is.

I think this is due to the earliest translations being done by people who weren't translators at all. They were just shmup fans, and not part of the greater fan translation community.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Nook on August 10, 2017, 09:00:09 PM
(https://puu.sh/x6Rj5/08112397ff.png)(https://puu.sh/x6Rut/1f16baaea7.png)(https://puu.sh/x6Ss7/f1e9252150.png)
I'm glad we only got two chapters of this. Hopefully the official translation is better.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: Lebon14 on August 10, 2017, 10:44:52 PM
I've been left with a bitter feeling after reading the end.

So, this whole get up was, in fact, top stop Kosuzu's youkai transformation; as it was, apparently, a matter of time before it happened. So, everything Yukari said in the previous chapter, about protecting Kosuzu from Reimu, was true. Yukari just brought Kosuzu into her plan to protect her without providing the details. So that, by the end, the scroll that would lead her astray and a VERY demoralized Reimu, was used to just counter it.

But, now that she's closer to Reimu and co. and that "she wishes to be able to fight like them", we may very well see Kosuzu as a spell card user in the future. If Marisa, born a simple ability-less human, be able to learn magic and go that far, Kosuzu might as well go that far too.

I still hate Zun's status quo stance.
Also, and dat story gap. Game incoming?

My (inacurrate) 2?.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: BernkastelWitch on August 11, 2017, 04:08:44 AM
Part of me does hope these events will be referenced in another manga or game while another part of me believes it'd probably be swept under the rug minus a few dialogue regarding it.

Regardless I had a fun read and would reread all of FS. I liked being around all this time to read it in its entirety and was enjoyable.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: the old guy on August 11, 2017, 04:43:11 AM
I highly doubt ZUN will do anything with the implication that Kosuzu is trying to fly honestly. There have been a lot of things in Touhou that seem like they'll be important in the eyes of the fanbase, but then aren't.

I don't think this will be an exception sadly.
Title: Re: The latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery [SPOILERS]
Post by: shockdude on August 11, 2017, 06:25:30 AM
ZUN never directly explained how/why Kosuzu developed her "reading" powers, right? It's simply implied to be a side-effect of all the Youma books and/or the Night Parade Scroll.
The development of her ability has been cool to see, going from reading text to reading people. Reminds me of Reimu's ability to float leading to her floating outside reality.