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Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4614.0.html)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5049.0.html)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.0.html)
Thread 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6744.0.html)
Thread 6 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.0.html)
Thread 7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.0.html)
Thread 8 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11564.0.html)
Thread 9 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13990.0.html)
Thread 10 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15170.0.html)
Thread 11 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.0.html)
Thread 12 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16042.0.html)
Translation Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html)
English Wiki
LoT 1 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
LoT 2 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2)
MoonJapanese Wiki
LoT 1 (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
LoT 2 (http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2)
LoT 1 Patches and other downloads
Ver 2.04 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/mzdgl54mxmi/thLabyrinth_ver2.04.zip)
Ver 2.06B patch (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC) Dead link. HALP.
Ver 3.01 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahccqhixp7d1n9p/thLabyrinth_ver3.01.zip)
English Patch for Ver 3.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/71x2aghm3dco808/Labyrinth+of+Touhou+Special+Disk+English+Patch.zip)
Cheat Engine chart (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg356800.html#msg356800)
Cheat table for Special Disc on Win XP (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg377088.html#msg377088)
Suggested builds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521)
Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/download/w5jig4q58hlmy3z/Labyrinth+DataBase.rar)
LoT 2 Patches and other downloads
Start game with all characters (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.msg1017162.html#msg1017162)
Ver 1.202 (http://firestorage.jp/download/0584ab67e6fae363810686ef8648a4c7e09e4c0a)
Ver 1.203 (http://firestorage.jp/download/7814f97d45779c2c977b514c0db479fae8e926d8)
Image packs
Squidtentacle's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chripy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download/pc8dovp81cj8u8z/CharaGraph.rar)
Pandaology's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z)
Developer's site: http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/ (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)
Main page : http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm)
Quickly made with the power of copypasta! (read: I copied the first post of the last thread and added a link to said thread)
Now, let's continue on, yeah?
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When's the Special Disk gonna come out :V
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Well, I beat 6F Tenshi with Team 9.
Guardian level 40 Mystia with 400+ SPI resistance and 70~ levels in HP can tank Tenshi like a boss. (Mystia was chosen because she has the highest natural SPI res of the 4.)
At that point I just got lucky enough that no one actually died. Tenshi was eternally at -50% SPD after her first turn, and everyone was doing pretty respectable damage. She does seem to get ailment resistance at low health, as it became much harder to poison her at the end. Could just be bad luck.
And now I'm incredibly overleveled for the content until...well, 9F Tenshi maybe.
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Nah prob overlevel until 12f tenshi =p
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I think 9f Tenshi's recommended level might be even lower than 6f. Or at least the same thing. Probably the latter if I'm not just off the mark entirely.
Anyway, I got Renko and Maribel! Woo. Now to rearrange equipment. I'm also starting to wonder which attackers would be worth switching to Gambler purely for the 60% damage increase on doubling MP cost (now that mp pools are higher and I have lots of spare mp gems), without making them glass... hmm. Yuuka's Flower Shot is super cheap, but she has amazing synergy with Sorc's auto-magic buff. Now that buffer god byakuren is online, though, it probably doesn't really matter, so...
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Hmm.... any level recommendations and suggestions on beating the last boss, it's been awhile since I picked up LoT2 and plus I want to get moving to prepare for Special Disk.
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Hit 9F Tenshi. Think I'm gonna try for a super Tenshi clear.
My lack of debuffs will make it somewhat difficult. However, the good news is that by the end of 9F, you've found 4 Stones of Awakening, so my team is set.
Hexed in all the BP I'll need for events on non-Team 9 characters. Made sure that in doing so I wouldn't unlock any new achievement. Decided to fight Ran at full Shikigami power--still no challenge. Done all events up to now except for the Suika ones. The cost is just so laaaaaaaaaarge...
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No, there are rocks on 20F (as well as 12F). My guess is that you're not fully up to date. Remember that the translation patch will list you as 1.203(?) even if you haven't patched up to there yet.
I found out what was wrong! My game was already patched to 1.203, but for some reason I was using the 1.151 translation. Thank you!
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I think I understand why boss def/mnd is so high in many cases; well first of all it's because they ended up giving the player several too-strong options that let you utterly demolish bosses that don't either have extreme HP or extreme defenses when you put the strongest characters in gambler builds. But anyway, the other reason-
It's because you actually do have a lot of ways to deal with it. You have armtwisting to combine with debuffs to debuff even highly resistant bosses without too much issue, or using Reisen and/or Hina to similar effects. There's now a large array of characters that can ignore a significant amount of def or mnd (even Iku!), and Monk has an option that can sometimes get the job done. Some of these bosses might be vulnerable to PSN, although I think a lot of them do resist it... (It's so much harder to use Wriggle in this game. I wonder if PSN even does alright damage still in postgame?)
But my team actually doesn't carry any of those, I didn't have -anything- until I got Rumia recently, who sure is important in randoms now. That's more my fault though I guess? As for the "overlevel and power through with Nitori/Flan/etc sheer numbers" option, it's there, but I was more or less immune to all of the boss's attacks WAAAAY before I managed to start hurting it, so obviously it wasn't the intended solution. I think having a counter for these bosses of some form in your party is really important, and thankfully there's a good variety of choices for that.
Hmm.... any level recommendations and suggestions on beating the last boss, it's been awhile since I picked up LoT2 and plus I want to get moving to prepare for Special Disk.
So long as you've actually spent your money in the Library and not stockpiled 1m+, the challenge level should be fine in terms of surviving everything except perhaps the final phase. However, you've got to figure out how you're damaging it through it's DEF/MND; you can debuff it off with ArmTwisting or Hina/Reisen or at least using "Eyes That Perceive Reality" characters, or you could use straight off def/mnd ignoring characters. OR, you can do what I did, and use Nitori and Flandre to just brute force through, which works because Nitori is OP and never has to be switched out ever even in full ATK builds with her crazy nuke potential, and it's weak to DRK so Flan works wonders.
In other news, seriously, if you were going to banlist anyone, banlist Nitori, as you pick up better and better gear she just gets stupid good. In other news again, early in the game her nuke didn't seem particularly good... so I wonder if Youmu's nukes also scale a lot better than they seem when you first get her. A lot of people comment that it seems kind of worthless, and I haven't heard anyone's opinion on Youmu later in the game.
e:Daaang they buffed Momiji's stats all by so much in the 1.20x rebalance. She must be an awesome tank now. You need to be to compete with the gimmicks the other guys get, of course, but daaang. Kogasa, Rumia, Cirno, Minoriko and Parsee were the other who benefited the most, even though all Parsee got was a MND tweak- in that her already ridiculous mnd got even higher. Shikieiki did get a high DEF boost, and Meiling got a significant ATK boost. Most (all?) other tweaks were minor.
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Yeah, Momiji pretty much is damn durable with the highest def growth of the game along with high HP and moderate mind. Aside from cold and mystic affinity, she doesn't have any glaring weaknesses and she has "Eyes that perceive reality" and her other skill-set allows herself to grow faster. If there is an actual problem with her, she is a little bland.
Something odd about arm-twisting though, Marisa has it but people report that she still does 0 damage on some bosses with Master Spark.
Wriggles isn't useless. It's just, unlike LoT1, some bosses do resist poison. However, the damage that it deals seem to scale with some formula since it was ticking off the same amount of HP percentage to a level 1 enemy compared to a level 100 enemy. The poison doesn't even get stronger with toxo (but duration increases) or leveling her spellcard for some reason.
Is team 9 really that strong? People seem to be breezing the game with that team,
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Arm-twisting != Piercing
If your damage, with its multipliers, cannot exceed some portion of the enemy's mitigation stat (in this case MND), then you will do 0 damage. Affinities have nothing to do with this--they come into play after that initial number has been calculated.
Team 9 is reasonably strong, but remember that if all of them are on the front line together, they get a 48% boost to all their stats. This is *not* a buff in the classic sense, nor is it a fake percentage like equipment gives. It's a huge boost, that stacks with other buffs multiplicatively.
In addition, having only 4 characters to deal with means there's a much smaller pool for your Gems and Training Manuals to go into.
And you're pretty much forced to grind for certain bosses (6F Tenshi), which puts you well ahead of the curve for subsequent floors.
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Something odd about arm-twisting though, Marisa has it but people report that she still does 0 damage on some bosses with Master Spark.
Arm-twisting pierces affinity and status resist, not defenses.
And I'm not saying Wriggle is useless, she's just harder to use. She was a top-tier damage dealer in lot1 until postgame even if you were using an efficient team including Iku's atk/mag buffing, albiet it was hard to TELL that she did great damage.
About Team ⑨... if you have the whole team fielded their stats are almost doubled. It's like having 72% buffs on permanently, except you can actually still buff, albiet the team doesn't carry ones of their own- but you can use subclasses and toss someone else in to buff them for a second assuming you aren't running a pure-team-9 challenge. If you add normal buffs to the 72% team bonus, their stats get a little silly, because I think the buffs multiply ontop.
cut by... nah, you multiplied the 12% by 4, which is wrong because you only get 3 member activations with all 4 out and because you still need to multiply the 12 by 2 for leveling the passive up twice.
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I forgot about Nitori and Flandre because they were both my main arsenal damage dealers back in LoT1 Special Disk, ok that's it I'm doing it the old fashion way. But, first I need to do some leveling....
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Aaaand fullcleared. The 5 new bosses in at the end were fun, but that was probably a decent bit because I was overleveled so I had an easier time with them than I could've... by the time I could deal with the mirror/magatama I was preeeetty high level, and then after doing all the extra floors I was like lv180~190. The extra boss c.levels go from 140~160, so... yeah.
Culex
and the strengthened Murakamo weren't easy mode by any means at all, but it wasn't overwhelming after figuring out strats.
I think if I had more debuffing power (I had a decent amount, but not Hina's doom-tier or any Arm Twisting/Intense Vertigo to get through resistance) it'd have been better, and Kaguya probably would have been awfully nice. Flandre and Nitori were huge boons though, and a team of crazy good supportive characters was important.
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cut by... nah, you multiplied the 12% by 4, which is wrong because you only get 3 member activations with all 4 out and because you still need to multiply the 12 by 2 for leveling the passive up twice.
The description says SLvl*8%, but based on empirical evidence, it seems that leveling up just gives you another stack of the Team 9 buff. So each other member gives you 2 stacks of the buff, leading to 6 stacks total.
6*8% = 48%
Hard to test what the stats actually become without some cheat engine digging though.
Edit: So on the wiki the description does definitely say 12% per stack. I wasn't able to play last night--I'll need to check the in-game text when I get home.
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Allow me to do the math based on the wiki...
12% * 6 = 72% for ATT, DEF, MAG, and MND
6% * 6 = 36% for SPD
This is the power of the "Team 9" group skill.
As a aside, I had always thought that her accuracy increasing skill worked well with said defensive nature, making her prefect for helping others to not miss and to hit harder just by being there. Come to think of it, other than her somewhat low resistance to ailments(which a Status Boost Tome could help in), and her low affinity to cold and mystic(which can be fixed via Voile), Momiji doesn't have any glaring flaws, does she? This could make her perfect for the Strategist or Pharmacologist subclasses, since her sturdiness would be helpful for the former(being able to grant a defensive and offensive boost to everyone would be quite helpful, not to mention that her Speed buff will be strengthened by the sheer point of the reduction of its decay), while her speed would be helpful towards the latter(the skill set for said subclass weakens ailments and debuffs on allies every time she takes a turn).
Of course, one could also argue that the Guardian and Monk subclasses are more suitable, given that the former works well with her skill set, and the latter gives her the means to attack even faster, and auto heal herself every turn as well...
Edit: I just realized something. Has anyone listed what types(Human, Divine, Aquatic, Other, etc.) the various bosses fall under? Because I think that that might be something that can be put into the wiki for the sake of information...
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Ideal subclasses for tanks depends too much on your party composition, although you can still generally point out better ones for characters- it's mostly based on how good their own moveset is, though, aka if they need support skills to use they're better off as something like Pharmacologist. The selling point for pharmacologist definitely isn't the debuff/status reduction anyway- those aren't even worth spending points on until you're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Pharmacologist is still IMO the best general class to give to a tank, though.
Kogasa Tank as a hexer might be effective... hmm. e:Hexer skills debuff 22% at max, and Kogasa is the tankiest possessor of Arm Twisting (as well as having a personal strong mnd debuff, many helpful passive skills of her own, and will inflict Terror which is there I guess. The status helps activate some skills/passives) so Kogasa Hexer is probably a legit strat? I'm not sure how good Arm Twisting is in comparison to just having Reisen do her thing with Discarder and Intense Vertigo.
Momiji would want a subclass that actually gives her a useful support skill to use, as her moveset is basically worthless as a tank. If you gave her something like Monk or Strategist, it's kind of a waste of all the turns she gets. Strategist Byakuren as a tank is hilarious though, by the way, it almost negates the need to have people capable of buffing your party.
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Huh, I was right. The in-game description of the Team 9 buff says 8%, not 12%. At least with the latest translation patch.
Let me see if I can confirm the correct numbers with cheat engine.
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The wiki is just outdated. The game's info is most certainly the correct one. That makes sense, 72% is insane.
When the info is changed, it's reverted to japanese in the patch by help of the tools, so the ingame info should all be up to date.
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So let me get this straight.
Having 'team' skills will give the party buffs to your stats. And you can stack these stats even further by the 'normal' buffs like Sanae's.
I was thoroughly confused and I couldn't find information about it on the wiki or the old thread. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough, and I apologize if this was the case... I want to have a solid info for when I attempt my own NG+.
Just arrived at 20F and the struggle is real. Those damn eyes blasting my whole party to ashes are rather annoying. :ohdear: But then again I should've expected as much given that LoT1's 20F was basically boss after boss... only a little bit until postgame!
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Having 'team' skills will give the party buffs to your stats. And you can stack these stats even further by the 'normal' buffs like Sanae's.
Yes. And yeah, the eyes on 20f are a pain before you hit the relay points. This isn't the miniboss area of ultimate grinding yet, by the way.
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https://www.mediafire.com/?t1v567p5sced1zl
I've updated the English patch for LoT1 Special Disk.
Fixes:
-The level goddess no longer calls Rinnosuke a lady
-Re-added the image for Meiling's mountain breaker and Youmu's slash of eternity. Youmu's graphic is also used in Alice's boss fight (IIRC), so that's incidentally fixed, as well as Sanae's miracle fruits and Kanako's Virtue of Wind God, which use the same graphic as Mountain Breaker.
-Changed the names of 'Magic Sword "Chaos"' and 'Holy Sword "Sunlight"' to 'Demonic Sword Chaos' and 'Holy Sword Nikkou'. "Nikkou" is her name, so it shouldn't be translated. Also updated the translation note with some more information. All that Sengoku Rance has been paying off.
-Changed Rinnosuke's out-of-TP message
-Changed Mary's name to "Maribel Hearn"
-I think there were a few untranslated names, like Shikieiki v3 or something.
-Changed all "(u)huhu" to the vastly superior "(u)fufu"
-Fixed the Arturos Gem/King Arthur mixup - the "Found treasure!" line uses Arturos Gem now.
-Probably a couple of other things I can't remember.
Did not fix:
-The missing sound effects on enemy plus-disk character bosses. Can't figure that crap out.
Dunno how many people still play 1, but here it is. Only took four years. This seems to work perfectly fine, but fixing the Lady/Lord issue on levelup involved more assembly than I like, so it's possible I broke something.
You will need the .orig files for img.dxa, img1.dxa, and thLabyrinth_ver3.exe for the patch to work. If there are any issues, running the old patch ( http://www.mediafire.com/?c0ic698csyvwfcb ) will undo everything... again, as long as you have the .orig files.
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Yes. And yeah, the eyes on 20f are a pain before you hit the relay points. This isn't the miniboss area of ultimate grinding yet, by the way.
Thank you for the clarification! :3
W-what do you mean there's a miniboss area? :ohdear: I made it to Magatama's relay point (and beat it) so now I'm backtracking to explore the other half of 20F... I feel that I can't push very far when Aya runs out of TP because the advantage over those tops is too great-- even though the tops are no longer a super threat, those eyeballs are the #1 priority... and the giants. The damn giants from LoT1. They're Eiki's and Kaguya's show.
EDIT: Thank you very much for the English patch!! I beat LoT1 but I never got to the postgame because as I was gathering the 'stars' I lost all of my data, so I was extremely discouraged to start over... I did start over this year, though, and I'm... right after the Eientei battle. This patch will be very helpful. Thank you very much!
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Having 'team' skills will give the party buffs to your stats. And you can stack these stats even further by the 'normal' buffs like Sanae's.
Not quite. The team skills will give the user buffs based on the other members of the team (at least with regards to Team 9).
And yes, these are inherent to the character, and not counted as a temporary buff, which means they can stack with normal buffs multiplicatively.
I've updated the English patch for LoT1 Special Disk.
Oh wow. Did you happen to fix the King Arthur/Arturos Gem mixup with treasure chests? That confused me for daaaaays.
In other news, the grinding for Super Tenshi continues. Did a bunch of achievement grinding as well. Can't quite hit 50 MP/TP (could if I used a Tome of Reincarnation, but it's not worth it). Pretty close to the 60 FOE kills one though. Super Tenshi still seems remarkably weak to poison, so it may end up being a situation where I just tank everyone up as much as possible. Finished the Suika subquest since it counted towards spending money at Nitori's anyway.
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Oh wow. Did you happen to fix the King Arthur/Arturos Gem mixup with treasure chests? That confused me for daaaaays.
Oh yeah. That too.
I guess the cause is the item name is "King Arthur", but it's a reference to another game that localized it as "Arturos", as a gem, hence "Arturos Gem".
But I did change it.
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Ideal subclasses for tanks depends too much on your party composition, although you can still generally point out better ones for characters- it's mostly based on how good their own moveset is, though, aka if they need support skills to use they're better off as something like Pharmacologist. The selling point for pharmacologist definitely isn't the debuff/status reduction anyway- those aren't even worth spending points on until you're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Pharmacologist is still IMO the best general class to give to a tank, though.
To be fair to those skills, the power to reverse a debuff into a buff, or the power to boost all currently existing buffs is somewhat situational. As far as I can tell, most people use the subclass simply for the "Herb of Excitement" spell, since that spell allows you to power up other people's attack spells(or even healing spells, if said buff is the same kind as the one caused by Grand Incantation), so it wouldn't be so bad for a fast tank(like Momiji) to have such skills to weaken such ailments with every turn. After all, she doesn't have much in the way of places for her skill points to go, so she'll definitely have a surplus at some point(earlier than a number of characters, I would wager).
Momiji would want a subclass that actually gives her a useful support skill to use, as her moveset is basically worthless as a tank. If you gave her something like Monk or Strategist, it's kind of a waste of all the turns she gets. Strategist Byakuren as a tank is hilarious though, by the way, it almost negates the need to have people capable of buffing your party.
1. One must realize that Momiji is often used as a bulky fighter in late game for a reason, this is why I would give her Monk as a means to make her faster, hit harder, and even heal and buff herself automatically every turn.
2. If you're saying that her having a lot of turns as a Strategist is a bad thing, then I suppose that the idea of being supported by other characters who'll heal and buff her up while she switches them in and out is a bad plan? Curious... I'll admit that there are better people who can be a Strategist, though...
3. If "skill set for tanking" is all that she needs, than my note of her using the Guardian subclass makes sense, since she can counter the Shield Guard's weakness of debuffing her own speed, and having a attack spell that inflicts Shock and gives a Defense buff to herself is very helpful towards tanking hits. She can become faster in using concentrate, thus reducing the delay between her attacks, and simply being in the front with a full lineup at the start of battle raises their defenses from the get go...
Frankly, I would not be surprised if they tested the Guardian subclass with Momiji in mind, since said subclass fits her like a glove, so to speak.
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To be fair to those skills, the power to reverse a debuff into a buff, or the power to boost all currently existing buffs is somewhat situational.
The power to boost all current buffs is really not all that situational. The other one really isn't that good though, yeah, plus for some reason it takes 5 points per level and it's much more difficult to use if you don't level it. Herb of Excitement alone is pretty great though, and Placebo Effect is pretty nice whenever you can get around to it- it's true that it's better later in the game when you're running around with craploads of buffs more.
It also synergizes well with Byakuren, and quite honestly, Byakuren is unarguably the ultimate form of buffing your party after she has the skillpoints (which she will at/before lv100- admittedly that's final boss time, but there's lots of quite difficult postgame bosses to deal with) so that's pretty important.
One thing I do like about this game is you can make a super great party without having to use the same several characters. Reimu is totally replaceable, there's lots of super great tanks, buffing in general isn't so specified to single people, and apart from Nitori/Flan you don't have ultimate damage dealers. (And you don't need them if you don't want to just OUTRIGHT CHEESE bosses, because that's exactly what they do) I think all the characters have useful niches to fill as well. The only exception is that after the final boss, Byakuren obsoletes the need for most other buffing forms- but you still can use a -little- bit of other buff power and it's important for a few bosses to have some degree of alternative... (Although you get Renko in time for that, and since she has so little time to shine, it only makes sense to use her)
Okay I guess Nitori/Flan being stupid is also kind of an exception. Flan isn't as universally boss cheesing but she just utterly destroys a good number of difficult ones, and if you actually used the SDM... oh god. Lavaeteinn is very usable in group bosses, this time. (Suwako's a pretty good NTR version of Flan but she doesn't have a lavateinn nor is she as good at overwhelming sheer def numbers)
Subclasses also makes characters able to effectively work in many different builds, and is part of what makes so many people usable as great tanks- anyone with good durability can be a tank that uses their passives to fill a niche support role as well, like Hexer Kogasa tank making good use of Heart of Patience, Arm Twisting, Easygoing, and universal terror to enable Parsee or people with Final Blow. Most if not all of the tanks are viable as bulky damage dealers, too, especially now that you can switch levelup bonuses freely.
-Re-added the image for Meiling's mountain breaker and Youmu's slash of eternity. Youmu's graphic is also used in Alice's fight (IIRC), so that's incidentally fixed.
THANK YOU
It's also used in miracle fruits but I really don't think LoT1 Sanae is very good. Awesome in 2 tho' (If you insisted on not using Iku she'd probably be alright for 1 though, it's really not a good idea to do that but you like who you like. Same with Meiling in terms of status curing heal)
Actually, I think Kanako's Virtue of Wind God uses it, but Kanako is also pretty crappy unless the boss is weak to CLD. (Kanako is also wonderful in 2 tho)
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I wonder what's a good subclass for Eirin. Only ones I can think of are Pharmacologist, Healer, and Toxicologist. (All of which fit her, Doctor theme).
I also wonder about pharmacologist Sanae, what do you think?
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Sanae can't get much use out of pharmacologist, because she already will probably want to be using Miracle Fruits, heal, or concentrate on every turn she's out. She wants useful passive powers instead. Enhancer is the most straightforward but there's plenty of good options. Reimu is a great Enhancer btw, since healing buffs and buffing heals are cool when both of your own are multitarget.
Healer Eirin is surprisingly effective I hear; increase her healing power and then use the subclass heal with her Healing Limit Breaker to overheal people for massive amounts.
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Sanae can't get much use out of pharmacologist, because she already will probably want to be using Miracle Fruits, heal, or concentrate on every turn she's out. She wants useful passive powers instead. Enhancer is the most straightforward but there's plenty of good options. Reimu is a great Enhancer btw, since healing buffs and buffing heals are cool when both of your own are multitarget.
Healer Eirin is surprisingly effective I hear; increase her healing power and then use the subclass heal with her Healing Limit Breaker to overheal people for massive amounts.
Yes I know about enhancer Reimu, I use it, and it is amazing. Luv it.
So basically to sum it up, who would love the pharmacologist subclass? What exactly is its job?
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I'm also wondering about subclasses for Alice and Kogasa...
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Pharmacologist is a good subclass for tanks with spare turns. Use Herb of Excitement on whoever's about to attack (It lasts for two of their turns for 36% extra damage at max) or use Placebo Effect on people with like 50~70% buffs to keep them high up. Incense Treatment isn't much good- it's highly situational and even then it costs 5 points instead of 3 to level, and is really costly to use until maxed.
Kogasa depends on whether she's attacking or tanking. Hexer Kogasa as a tank can make good use of Arm Twisting to debuff anything (22% debuff at max level), or she'd be fine as any other support sub (although even if you have Parsee it seems like a dubious tank choice if you aren't going Hexer). As an attacker, it's the usual of either Warrior or Monk.
Alice is fine as Sorc (or maybe Monk) to boost her offense or you can go for Transcendent to boost her tankiness some at the same time. People whose main job is just "deal damage" are pretty straightforward to subclass. You don't even get Transcendent for a long time and skilling it out takes a lotta skill points.
If you don't think it'd be a big deal for them to burn through MP really hard, you could just go Gambler and not use it's passive that makes them take doubled damage, only taking the double mp cost one for 60% extra damage. But... generally it's probably too much of an issue.
1. One must realize that Momiji is often used as a bulky fighter in late game for a reason, this is why I would give her Monk as a means to make her faster, hit harder, and even heal and buff herself automatically every turn.
Huh? We were talking about subclasses for her built as a tank. If you were building her for ATK instead, that's an entirely different situation so my advice wouldn't really apply- she'd be using her attacks, not needing support skills.
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Super Tenshi defeated.
Wriggle - 62
Cirno - 65
Mystia - 63
Rumia - 62
Wriggle was a Guardian, the other three were Enchanters. Wriggle had all her level up bonuses in def, and had 2 Intamas. At 100% def buff, she took 40~ damage from Tenshi's buff counter. At around 50% def buff, she took around 800 damage. With 4000 max health, this was never a real problem.
It was a very long battle of whittling her down with poison and Rumia piercing while being in little-to-no actual danger.
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I've done it! \o/
I want to move on to the postgame but I don't know what to do... I still see the final boss' symbol, I can't find Boss Rush, I can't get past the rocks in 12F, the Strengthen Bosses aren't showing... :ohdear:
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The final boss is rechallangeable, so the icon will stay.
The Boss Rush is in the northeast part of the final boss's area. Once you beat that the strengthened bosses show up.
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The final boss is rechallangeable, so the icon will stay.
The Boss Rush is in the northeast part of the final boss's area. Once you beat that the strengthened bosses show up.
I can't see it...
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This might be a version issue.
I'm playing on 1.203 (don't even know if that's up to date)
and it might be that 1.151 did not yet have the post-game content.
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Huh? We were talking about subclasses for her built as a tank. If you were building her for ATK instead, that's an entirely different situation so my advice wouldn't really apply- she'd be using her attacks, not needing support skills.
True, true...
But the fact remains that building her as a pure tank doesn't work out as well as one would like, given that she only has stuff that helps her to attack as far as skills and spells go. Even her unique skill that boosts the front line's accuracy helps more for her offense rather than defense, I think that in the end, Momiji ends up as a bulky fighter because of said options. A subclass is needed to make her go full tank(Guardian, Healer), but as she is, she seems to be just as well suited to using Warrior or Monk to make the most of her skill set(namely, her accuracy boosting skill, which helps a lot when you don't want Explosive Flame Sword to ever miss, or when you want to turn Momiji into the closest thing that you'll get to a Critical Hit Class in this game via Puncturing Thrust and the Monk's passive boost towards accuracy).
Honestly, I wish that Momiji had been given Impact Attack, so that her attacks can deal Shock and slow the enemy down a bit. Also, replace her "increased damage towards flying enemies" skill with Beat Down.
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Yeah, Version 1.151 doesn't have the post-game content (Boss Rush, Strengthen Bosses)
Version 1.203 is the latest version if I'm not wrong.
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Hahaha, the update was in the thread itself. :P I have fixed my problem now, and am progressing through the 11F extra area.
Damn, these new enemies hit like TRUCKS. @_@ I can still gain levels every so few battles in the last 20F area so I might do that for a while until everything becomes more manageable... plus I need stat points. :ohdear:
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12F Ame-no-murakumo defeated.
I'm beginning to think elemental affinities work differently in this game--they seem significantly stronger. Perhaps they've been moved to pre-mitigation?
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If that was the case than kogasa's dark nuke (assuming no mnd debuffs on boss) would smack it for more than 0 before debuffs, but it hits for 0 (well it did at my stat level at least). Meanwhile monks using leaning mountain could hit it for like 10-20k. Pretty sure remi would hi the mirror for 0 too but she was able to damage it (not alot, but not horrible either).
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I'm beginning to think elemental affinities work differently in this game--they seem significantly stronger. Perhaps they've been moved to pre-mitigation?
Are you sure it's not a case of the affinity number itself being higher? It'd help to know the context of your suspicion, for that matter, but I'm pretty sure the end result is "there's not really any way it's not the same"
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Wriggle has 100 base SPI affinity. While attempting to kill Super Tenshi, her debuff counter (SPI element) would deal about 3000~ damage to Wriggle. When I *removed* defense granting gear, replacing them with Intamas, which I had 2 of, bringing me to 300 SPI affinity, the damage went down to about 40.
If it worked like the old game, I should've been taking approximately 1/3 the damage I was before, or 1000~, but that didn't occur.
Obviously this is just one example, so I'd like for someone else to see if they can reproduce the strange effect. Maybe I'm just missing something. I dunno.
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Damage went down to... 40? There surely had to have been something else at work. I did similar things against Tenshi, for that matter, and certainly didn't have such dramatic effects.
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Did any of the equipment mess with EVA? Because if I remember correctly, that stat can affect damage in more than a "hit or miss" situation.
Otherwise, it could be that affinities affect the result more because 300 affinity now does not equal "damage reduced to 1/3rd", but "damage reduced to less than 1/3rd"...
If this effect only happens on that one attack, then that means that it's that attack that got nerfed instead...
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EVA doesn't effect received damage in any way. If it hits the character, that is.
Are you sure it wasn't just 12F Tenshi?
By the way, How did you defeat the 12F Ame-no-Murakumo?
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Well, shit. Looks like the achievement bug was as bad as I feared. None of Renko's bosses are appearing.
Does anyone happen to have a save right before them? I might be able to use it to study the save file format to see if I can "fix" my save.
By the way, How did you defeat the 12F Ame-no-Murakumo?
I was around level 80, and the Team 9 buff is strong. His speed can be debuffed fairly easily, and almost all of the damage came from Rumia's Dark Side of the Moon.
His full party attack can be evaded. I never evaded the single target one, but Wriggle could survive it pretty solidly with 300 SPI resistance. It was somewhat luck-based. I needed him to not target my 3 non-Wriggles. If I remember correctly, Cirno died, but after she'd already brought his speed down to -50%, so I was able to continue.
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It was somewhat luck-based.
Oh, how many tries did that take? :3
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Did any of the equipment mess with EVA? Because if I remember correctly, that stat can affect damage in more than a "hit or miss" situation.
There's no miss/scrape/hit/crit system in this game. I meant to respond to this when you talked about a momiji crit build.
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Wow, why the hell did I wait so long to get into this game?
I was waiting for a translation patch, didn't realise that 'enough' was translated quite a while ago, am a dork, that's why
LoT2 is beautiful and this game is exciting all over again oh my god.
The text for it was a little difficult to read due to line length, but Hard Mode appears to have been "individual stat bonuses can't exceed level * 1.2" and "all bosses must be fought with parties of the displayed level or lower", right?
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That's basically it.
Additionally the party-level is no longer the average of everyone but that of the character with the highest level.
These restrictions are lifted upon beating the final boss of the story.
Renko became more useful in the post-game because she now has the skillpoints to actually use her stuff. Since both her spells carry some demerits that aren't affected by leveling the skill up they aren't all that impressive on Lvl1.
I'm still kinda disappointed by Mokou's performance as a tank though. She's basically become a meatshield that is not able to debuff as well as Hina, given that she even gets to take a turn.
But I'm too lazy to replace her. :V (And I wouldn't know with whom. Maybe Wriggle or stuff but I don't even really "need" half my party most of the time and the file is almost done anyway so, eh.)
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Wow, why the hell did I wait so long to get into this game? I was waiting for a translation patch, didn't realise that 'enough' was translated quite a while ago, am a dork, that's why
LoT2 is beautiful and this game is exciting all over again oh my god.
The text for it was a little difficult to read due to line length, but Hard Mode appears to have been "individual stat bonuses can't exceed level * 1.2" and "all bosses must be fought with parties of the displayed level or lower", right?
HA
Good thing I told you to play it :P
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The "lines running off the screen" issue should be fixed in the next patch release since Deranged has been cleaning everything up. Exciting! Meanwhile, you'll see a lot more of that in descriptions.
Renko became more useful in the post-game because she now has the skillpoints to actually use her stuff. Since both her spells carry some demerits that aren't affected by leveling the skill up they aren't all that impressive on Lvl1.
I'm still kinda disappointed by Mokou's performance as a tank though. She's basically become a meatshield that is not able to debuff as well as Hina, given that she even gets to take a turn.
If you teach Renko DEF/MND boost and gear her up for it, she can get the highest combined def/mnd in the game, even better than Rinnosuke (along with far higher affinities), so she's definitely pretty cool. The only thing is deciding between Enhancer to power up Charge more and significantly lessen the HP cost (making it easier to use) or go Transcendent to make her even more gloriously tanky. Base stat increase is pretty heavy on characters with Maintenance, so she's also an awesome candidate for Gems.
Mokou's usefulness also comes from her 20% regeneration, 3 mp regen instead of two for using subclass skills with, Blazing passive, and in the bosses with a ridiculous attack that'd probably down anyone (of which there are several). Definitely give her a First Aid Kit and one of the mega-hp-increase items- with Resurrection and Regeneration you definitely want to play up her HP. I figure you're already utilizing the items with combined great increase on def/mnd and affinities, since Mokou's def/mnd are still good enough to want to pump.
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Good thing I told you to play it :P
Yes, thank you for that actually. I'm already up to like 6F help I think I might have a problem
Since I'm not reading any of the actual character descriptions, I wonder how completely incorrect I'm being in assessment of some of the characters' usefulness in this game.
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It's probably better to make your own opinions than go off the descriptions anyway- some of them are outdated due to character rebalancing, some of them I just don't really agree with, and in several cases you can make other effective ways to creatively use people.
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Mokou's usefulness also comes from her 20% regeneration, 3 mp regen instead of two for using subclass skills with, Blazing passive, and in the bosses with a ridiculous attack that'd probably down anyone (of which there are several). Definitely give her a First Aid Kit and one of the mega-hp-increase items- with Resurrection and Regeneration you definitely want to play up her HP. I figure you're already utilizing the items with combined great increase on def/mnd and affinities, since Mokou's def/mnd are still good enough to want to pump.
The thing is that Hina regenerates about the same when she is fully debuffed with the Hexer passive, I have nobody with any relevant fire damage to use Blazing and never really had any problems with bosses oneshotting my people. (Not even that boss who's supposed to kill anyone in one hit. I shock-locked him to death).
Mokou became just a backup for the case that Hina ever died but in most cases where that happened the fight was lost anyway. Hina is just too good since my party is also pretty much tailored around her so that all relevant people that tend to stay out are immune to debuffs and I have Sanae and Rumia to cure them.
If you teach Renko DEF/MND boost and gear her up for it, she can get the highest combined def/mnd in the game, even better than Rinnosuke (along with far higher affinities), so she's definitely pretty cool. The only thing is deciding between Enhancer to power up Charge more and significantly lessen the HP cost (making it easier to use) or go Transcendent to make her even more gloriously tanky. Base stat increase is pretty heavy on characters with Maintenance, so she's also an awesome candidate for Gems.
I am unable to use such items because of my conservative nature when it comes to these kind of things.
The tomes are limited so something in me tells me to not use them ever and while the stat gems are farmeable via the final boss that isn't too efficient.
Yes, they can be reset but that itself is limited to only so many times.
It's just a flaw I have.
Renko is a great EVA tank by the way, except that most relevant boss-attacks have perfect accuracy.
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Renko is a great EVA tank by the way, except that most relevant boss-attacks have perfect accuracy.
Yeah, I noticed.
If it helps, you can get all your tomes/gems back if you use a Tome of Reincarnation- those are ALSO limited but you get more than you should ever possibly want to use. No one can benefit from increased base stats like people with Maintenance can.
e:Oh, you mentioned the reset thing. I mean, I'm kind of similar, but only in that I want to save it until I'm -sure- it's the best way I could use them and I won't regret it later.
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If you teach Renko DEF/MND boost and gear her up for it, she can get the highest combined def/mnd in the game, even better than Rinnosuke (along with far higher affinities), so she's definitely pretty cool. The only thing is deciding between Enhancer to power up Charge more and significantly lessen the HP cost (making it easier to use) or go Transcendent to make her even more gloriously tanky. Base stat increase is pretty heavy on characters with Maintenance, so she's also an awesome candidate for Gems.
Due to mainenance, you can also stack elemental affinities to absurd levels and cutting down damage to a fraction. This combined with the fact that she regenerates when concentrating or if she takes a turn while Maribel is on the field which is enough to put Komachi to shame. However, I can hesistant to really put transcendant on Renko since att/mag and 10% increase damage is wasted on her as she will still be hitting like a little girl even with maintenance. If you have her dedicated towards tanking, it may be better to use guardian instead.
On the subject of maintenance, anyone else think the percentage should be lowered? It turns Nitori into a gamebreaker and Renko into a tank that makes most other tanks obsolete.
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The reason you would turn Renko into Transcendent instead of Guardian is because
A.You get a percentage damage reduction on Transcendent already, so you don't miss the guardian's
B.The base stat increase is gigantic compared to the one you get from guardian, and for someone with maintenance, that makes a BIG difference. When I made Nitori transcendent I think her def/mnd increased by about 20%- it's not quite as drastic on Renko, whose starting base isn't as low, but it's still very significant.
She can't make use of the damage increase but it's not like it's "wasted"; you generally aren't really using several of the tools a subclass gives you anyway. How often does anyone's Enhancer actually use their subclass skills? (Okay nevermind, my Yukari used the atk/mag buff sometimes and earlier in the game I had Enhancer Sakuya to help out since buffing wasn't easy yet and extra attack is cool)
Also, the best affinity gear later in the game (not counting the +100 for rare specific situations) already boosts your def/mnd by large quantities, so you get them both at once. I guess if you wanted to use the Guardian's def/mnd buff skill there's that, but in postgame the only reason you wouldn't be using Byakuren is because you just really don't like her or to challenge yourself. Charge is still useful but you wouldn't really bother burning spd/MP to refresh the def/mnd buff, is what I mean.
Efficient Concentration -is- kind of nice to use Charge more, admittedly (Easygoing's heal is minor if you don't build for it, it's still a nice addition but) but you probably won't need it too often regardless due to Byakuren, especially since on a non-Enhancer Renko it really hurts to use it. I'd call Guardian a distant third option that's still got upsides, but not a particularly worthy one compared to Enhancer or Transcendent.
Also, yeah, Nitori is just crazy, given she'll become as tanky as your tanks in a FULL ATTACK BUILD and has one of the strongest attacks in the entire game, with the gigantic mp recovery potential to spam it despite cost and delay. I wouldn't say Renko exactly makes other tanks obsolete since lots of other tanks have special qualities and her moveset is limited and begs for certain subclasses unless you just ditched it for Pharmacologist (viable but lol) and, quite honestly, you get Renko SO LATE IN THE GAME that I'm kind of glad she's got enough of an edge to shine a little. Maribel is kind of meh other than her passive to treat enemy buffs as debuffs, but she's quite versatile at least and many late postgame bosses buff themselves sometimes so I didn't feel like I wasted the slot... but yeah she's generally pretty eh.
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I stilll use Renko's charge even with Byakuren on the field because
Culex
and strengthened Ame-no-Murakumo has a minion with a skill that will dispel your buffs (including Overheat) until I eliminate it first (which are the times when I use Renko as enhancers) but against anything else I just need a charge for the initial phase to hand buffs to Byakuren to pass around which leaves Renko open for other tasks, plus a fully buffed Nitori with herb of excitement and stacks of overheat is scary. Admittedly I still have Renko as enhancer but I will see if I can move her to pharmacist later on although it may not be the case if there are more dispel users in future contents.
I been trying to give Maribel a bit of a chance though and see how she turns out though the delay for her Chaotic Quadruple Barrier is hindering (not sure the damage formula for it is like) and Overflowing Unnatural Power is too risky, not to mention Renko can give 83% of this at a much lower risk (and to the whole party to boot). That being said, her Liberated Ability actually feels reliable for an-all purpose attack and Home Barrier is pretty nice hybrid of a heal and mini damage boost for the party. As you mention indirectly, Maribel is so eh is because no one really invested in her due to her coming in very late into the game, that and you probably established your chosen high tier characters like Byakuren, Yuuka, Nitori, etc.
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I did say that Charge is still useful even with Byakuren around! Just that you wouldn't likely spend mp on the guardian's def/mnd skill over the other options outside of rare weird cases, further making it really not worth the subclass slot.
Maribel is so eh is because no one really invested in her due to her coming in very late into the game
That's not it- I invested a little extra into her stats compared to my main party and gave her good equipment, even though that's hard because there's a lot less good MAG equipment around. She just doesn't do much damage (on bosses) and the versatility of another multiheal, a strong self-buff, and her passives only just manage to keep her in the decent range. Even when the boss is significantly buffed she isn't very special, unless it's got a scary-high buff on it's atk/mag and you gave her enough good defensive gear.
Chaotic Quadruple Barrier's status effects make it alright but how often do you try to hit bosses with SHK or DTH? It was the only DTH I had for the Wind Crystal though, so that was nice, also I found that vulnerability by complete chance and it's amazingly lucky since that was probably like the only time I'd have ever cast that skill on it.
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Protip: Don't start making comprehensive analysis early in the morning. I missed quite a lot of stuff that you repied with. My apologies.
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Chaotic Quadruple Barrier's status effects make it alright but how often do you try to hit bosses with SHK or DTH? It was the only DTH I had for the Wind Crystal though, so that was nice, also I found that vulnerability by complete chance and it's amazingly lucky since that was probably like the only time I'd have ever cast that skill on it.
Yeah I fought that battle with Komachi, and Avici'd the wind crystal to death. I was super confused. "Where did it go? There was a wind crystal, right? I...there's no way I did enough damage already. Whaaaaaa"
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I once DTH'd the 12F Ame-no-Murakumo with Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana. Along with Reisen's skills.
The extra Heishishorinken really helped a lot afterwards.
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I once DTH'd the 12F Ame-no-Murakumo with Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana. Along with Reisen's skills.
The extra Heishishorinken really helped a lot afterwards.
Sad thing is I might attempt to do this for those 2 items.....
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I insta death'd Strengthened Nut Eater and Yellow Wasp cause Yellow Wasp is very annoying and nut eater was a complete accident.
Maybe I should insta death ama no murakumo so that I can farm up gems a lot quicker. I'm able to kill him at 2nd phase, but I wanna kill him even faster.
And a friend of mine recommended me insta deathing Giant Blue Oni cause it's Satan.
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I insta death'd Strengthened Nut Eater and Yellow Wasp cause Yellow Wasp is very annoying and nut eater was a complete accident.
Maybe I should insta death ama no murakumo so that I can farm up gems a lot quicker. I'm able to kill him at 2nd phase, but I wanna kill him even faster.
And a friend of mine recommended me insta deathing Giant Blue Oni cause it's Satan.
Most of the time take for farming is going through the ending each time and I think it is entirely possible ot just gungho him at first form with double Nitori nuke with Aya and Yukari. Even then, his transformation only heals him 50% of his HP.
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Double Gambler Flan nuke would be even faster than Nitori. I think.
Or you could just use Rinnosuke to speedswitch them in/out. Or just add that to the list.
The Paralyzing Wasp and the Nut Eater don't have star death resist, I don't know how realistic it is to land DTH with Reisen+Yuyuko on actual star resist bosses. If it worked on the 12f murakamo it must be -possible-, but, whether it's realistic is another matter. Although it's also a decent question to use Toxicologist with Arm Twisting in addition to Reisen, it's skill has a low success rate instead of Yuyuko Nirvana craziness, so that very well may not be worth it.
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Double Gambler Flan nuke would be even faster than Nitori. I think.
Or you could just use Rinnosuke to speedswitch them in/out. Or just add that to the list.
The Paralyzing Wasp and the Nut Eater don't have star death resist, I don't know how realistic it is to land DTH with Reisen+Yuyuko on actual star resist bosses. If it worked on the 12f murakamo it must be -possible-, but, whether it's realistic is another matter. Although it's also a decent question to use Toxicologist with Arm Twisting in addition to Reisen, it's skill has a low success rate instead of Yuyuko Nirvana craziness, so that very well may not be worth it.
I think you're meaning Green Wasp, that's paralyzing Wasp. Poison Yellow Wasp had Star DTH resist and I killed it quite quickly.
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I think you're meaning Green Wasp, that's paralyzing Wasp. Poison Yellow Wasp had Star DTH resist and I killed it quite quickly.
I looked up the bestiary again since I never paid attention to the colors. Green is the Poison Wasp. Yellow is the Paralyzing one. You got the one that doesn't have star death resist.
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Ooops, I'm sorry. I gotta really confused. The Green Wasp was the first encountered wasp right? That's the I instakilled. The 2nd encountered one is the one I didn't insta kill. And that was the poison one. Sorry about the confusion, I got mixed up.
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Speaking of status resistance, is it just my imagination or do a lot of bosses seem a lot harder to land Wriggle's poison on in 2 than 1? I'm not sure if it's that poison resistance is more common (in LoT1 there was like, what, one or two bosses that had any through the main game?) or if Wriggle's skills just have a lower poison infliction rate this time or what.
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So, I cheated a new game up to postgame in about 2 hours so I could do some save file analysis.
For whatever reason, it looks like Renko herself is the problem? For all the other characters, there's a distinction between "acquiring through starting an NG+ with all the characters" and "acquiring through their normal events". So even though I start with Minoriko, I still have to "revive" Minoriko to pass by the rock on 5F.
However, for Renko, this seems to not be correctly implemented. It looks like the game does in fact believe I have truly acquired Renko from the start of the game. And it also seems that it will not spawn any of the deformed bosses if Renko is in your party.
This is fixable, to an extent, by doing two things:
1. Removing Renko from your party via PCF01.ngd (set byte 0x2F to 0).
2. Setting offset 0x64A in EVF01.ngd to 1. Or, possibly, clearing the second bit (b & 11111101).
3. It'd be easy to remove the achievements, but I don't know the numbers.
There may be a solution that doesn't require Renko's removal, but I haven't found it. And, in fact, based on the fact that I've never seen anyone else report this issue means it may be more of an edge case than I thought.
Either way, I'm archiving my results here just in case anyone else has this problem.
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Got a few questions for everyone here...
1. Yukari's Spiriting Away spellcard says that it reduces the cost of the spell when it's leveled up. What's the cost of the spellcard when it is at maximum level?
2. Maribel's "Homemade Novice Barrier" spell heals others when it's leveled up. Does this make it qualify for the subclass skill "Heart of Compassion"?
3. Does the Pharmacologist's "Incense Treatment" affect all debuffs on an ally or just one of them? If it's just one of them, does that change from leveling it up? Also, as a sidenote, I do believe that the effect that this spell gives is roughly the unique effect that Mystia's Mysterious Song had in the first game, so there's that.
And that's all for now...
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Oh my god the 9F boss is stupid. so stupid wow that was a fight
found a use for Satori tho
Also I glanced over recruit conditions and goddamn that's a lot of battle point requirements :<
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Oh my god the 9F boss is stupid. so stupid wow that was a fight found a use for Satori tho
Also I glanced over recruit conditions and goddamn that's a lot of battle point requirements :<
You get them easily this time around, and you don't need Cheat Engine to see how many you have either.
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You get them easily this time around, and you don't need Cheat Engine to see how many you have either.
Wait, there's a way to check it? Where?
I can't find anything on the wiki about any changes to how they're gathered or anything, but I broke the 1000 BP achievement with <500 battles so the method must have changed, I just don't know the details. EDIT: Found that, still don't know how to check in-game though >:
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Go to Status and press Z.
Doing a quick check, your frontline members get 1 when a battle starts, and 2 when a battle ends. Everyone in the backline gets 1 at the end of battle. So you can get up to 3 per battle.
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Go to Status and press Z.
Oh hey, there is another screen there!
Go figure, almost all the characters that need BP with are characters I wasn't using
Thank you kindly ALSO you mentioned when we were chatting at the FJF match that you were working on a speedrun for LoT2, or at least routing it; anywhere you've got notes or videos or a twitch I can follow?
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Pastebin with Current Notes (Needs updating for strategies and setups, which I haven't bothered doing just yet since I need to go back to my save files for this)
http://pastebin.com/FAPgd028
Pastebin with possible Skill/Class choices (Needs heavy updating when I remember it)
http://pastebin.com/7Dcw1eZW
Komachi to Hina fight
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/b/528604353
Post-Hina to Iku
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/b/529480687
Actual Iku prep and Iku again.
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/b/529794933
It's currently on hold now due to 4JF, but chances are if I start getting burnt out with it I might do a bit more inbetween.
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Sweet, I'm bored at work (but too busy to focus on playing), so yay reading material and watching material when I get home +_+
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1. Yukari's Spiriting Away spellcard says that it reduces the cost of the spell when it's leveled up. What's the cost of the spellcard when it is at maximum level?
It goes down by 1 per level when you level it up. I think it's 30 mp at max?
2. Maribel's "Homemade Novice Barrier" spell heals others when it's leveled up. Does this make it qualify for the subclass skill "Heart of Compassion"?
I haven't tested it, but, it SHOULD actually qualify for all of the Enhancer's passives, amusingly. I'm not sure this is actually all that useful considering who you should also have at endgame, but given Mari's boss usefulness is meh outside of self-buffers you might be using her as a backup MT healer anyway.
3. Does the Pharmacologist's "Incense Treatment" affect all debuffs on an ally or just one of them? If it's just one of them, does that change from leveling it up? Also, as a sidenote, I do believe that the effect that this spell gives is roughly the unique effect that Mystia's Mysterious Song had in the first game, so there's that.
I'm pretty sure it affects all debuffs, and no, it doesn't change when you level it up. Instead it has an extreme cost and delay at lv1, and 5 skillpoint cost to level instead of 3. It's practically never worth it IMO; maybe if you were using Hina's universal debuff, but that sounds like a pain, and debuff resistance+decay would make it hard to get a half-decent return... Also, man, that Mystia skill was so useless since by the time you got her, all non-glass-cannons on your team should be immune to everything. I guess there's NG+ though!
answers in bold
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About the answer that you gave towards my last question...
Given that the only other skill that's 5 per level among the subclasses in terms of spells is "Magic Transfer", then I would think that you would be right...
As a thought to that, maybe they should modify it so that the equation for it equals this...
Debuff : D
Buff : B
Equation: B = D + (SLv * 10)% of D
Sorry that I'm running Algebra here, but my brain's too tired to form proper words for this...
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Is there any benefit to leveling up Eirin's Hourai Elixir? Also, why is it called Hourai Elixir? I'm guessing it's just the name of the medicine, but it isn't actually the "Elixir of Immortality" kind of thing?
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Is there any benefit to leveling up Eirin's Hourai Elixir? Also, why is it called Hourai Elixir? I'm guessing it's just the name of the medicine, but it isn't actually the "Elixir of Immortality" kind of thing?
It's the name of Eirin's Last Spell in Final A in Imperishable Night.
The Hourai Elixir is infact the immortality elixir(it's how Mokou's immortal), and in Touhou's canon, Eirin was its creator IIRC.
It's a healing spell that can increase HP beyond normal limits, sort of like how the actual Elixir increases lifespans.
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Is there any benefit to leveling up Eirin's Hourai Elixir? Also, why is it called Hourai Elixir? I'm guessing it's just the name of the medicine, but it isn't actually the "Elixir of Immortality" kind of thing?
It doesn't seem to have any benefit from leveling, for some reason. No reduction in MP cost, the post-use gauge doesn't change, and the healing doesn't change either.
As for Hourai Elixir, it is named after Mt Penglai (Hourai in japanese mythology), that was said to be a place where immortals lived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Penglai
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I already know what the hourai elixir is, I'm just saying it couldn't be the actual hourai elixir that she, kaguya, and mokou drank cause why would she do that?
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It's only a fangame, so I wouldn't think about it too hard. You can assume it's just a flavor name and it isn't truly the Hourai Elixir, though, yeah. She does have a spellcard named Hourai Elixir, after all.
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I'm not into lore too much but I thought kaggy was immortal WITHOUT the elixir, and her powers were somehow used to make the elixir?
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After reading things earlier, I just figured that
1: Since Eirin knows about it very well, she only gives enough to heal the party member's wounds, not grant immortality
or
2: It's not the actual thing but a modified version meant to heal wounds, ala an Elixir in FF, and just gave it the same name.
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I don't really pay attention to applying touhou-logic to spell names.. I mean Remi's spear the gungnir can miss in game, but legend says the spear never misses.
Speaking of it, wtf is it called "spear the gungnir" anyway? not "the spear gugnir?!"
and evil sealing circle works on non-yokai/non-evil just as well as otherwise.
There's probably dozens of things that make spellnames "wrong" according to their in-universe use somehow.
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I'm not into lore too much but I thought kaggy was immortal WITHOUT the elixir, and her powers were somehow used to make the elixir?
No, although Lunarians probably live a pretty damn long time anyway and are inhumanly healthy. Kaguya's powers WERE necessary along with Eirin's to create the Hourai Elixir but she only became immortal -after- drinking it (which was super not allowed, which is why the princess of the Lunarian Kingdom had to run away to Earth and cause the IN incident to try to block off moon access).
It's not confirmed if Eirin's drank any or not. And for the other stuff, I think the saying goes you do have to take three drinks for full immortality, but yeah, Eirin surely wouldn't go around letting people sip legit Hourai Elixir- the effects of drinking just a little were definitely a lot more than just "makes you feel better". S'just a cool name for an appropriately relevant skill. (Plus the actual version of the spellcard doesn't involve using elixir to heal people- if we were analyzing the situation seriously I doubt Eirin would even playfully go around using "hourai elixir" on everyone, you just have to submit to "Alright... it's just a fangame" sometimes if you try to logic stuff out.)
In other news... PSN doubles the damage of Wriggle's Nightbug Tornado, but unfortunately, it's not terribly strong in the first place. You'd need to be doing an ATK build -and- in Team 9 mode for it to be relevant, but the chances of that... (also RIP how cool and cute wriggle's attack animations were in the original game)
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Far as I recall, it's: 1 drink to stop aging, 2 to also stop diseases, and 3 for complete immortality forever.
Man, I really need to get to playing more of the first Labyrinth so I can play the second one. I know the stories are separate and all, but it'd feel wrong to get Laby 2 and potentially leave the first one for a longer time than it'll already take... On F18 last I played, slowly working towards the boss at the end before the inevitable need to grind further to actually BEAT him.
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you don't actually need to grind for 18f boss unless you were running away from tons of stuff on 17f+18f.
20f and 30f are the only 2 bosses that flat out require some grinding.
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you don't actually need to grind for 18f boss unless you were running away from tons of stuff on 17f+18f.
20f and 30f are the only 2 bosses that flat out require some grinding.
17F scared me, and with no treasure to find or anything it seemed more prudent to run to 18 andnmake up the difference there. Might go back to 17 to try for any cool drops though. I'm pretty sure that jerk of a red Angel Conception can drop Stars of Elendil...
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17F scared me, and with no treasure to find or anything it seemed more prudent to run to 18 andnmake up the difference there. Might go back to 17 to try for any cool drops though. I'm pretty sure that jerk of a red Angel Conception can drop Stars of Elendil...
Honestly I remember 17F in LoT1 being worse than 18F in terms of enemy difficulty, and it being a lot easier to just speed through it and grind 18F instead.
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That's exactly my point, haha. There were too many enemies that took next to no damage from most of my stuff and who could nuke me into the floor, so I figured I'd just run through. 18F is still troublesome at times, but the enemies are mostly much more manageable.
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Even if you ran away from most stuff on 17f i thought you still reach 18f boss at reimu 90.
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Even if you ran away from most stuff on 17f i thought you still reach 18f boss at reimu 90.
I remember reaching 18F's boss, with its map fully explored, at about 70 on my first playthrough. It was the first time I had to stop and grind, because the power difference was just pushing the battle into "I really need some good luck with moves/form change timing to have a shot at this even with a super solid strategy".
Speaking of needing to build teams for specific battles, LoT2's 10F boss kind of ran over my BP-grinding party like a truck so time to deconstruct my party and build a new one 8D
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Is there any benefit to leveling up Eirin's Hourai Elixir? Also, why is it called Hourai Elixir? I'm guessing it's just the name of the medicine, but it isn't actually the "Elixir of Immortality" kind of thing?
It doesn't seem to have any benefit from leveling, for some reason. No reduction in MP cost, the post-use gauge doesn't change, and the healing doesn't change either.
As for Hourai Elixir, it is named after Mt Penglai (Hourai in japanese mythology), that was said to be a place where immortals lived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Penglai
And this is something that I had pointed out before...
Personally, if a modification was to be put into it, I would vote for it giving the target (SLv - 1)MP when it's used on them. That would make it give a maximum of 4 MP, which would make the casting of said spell effective free if Eirin were to use it on herself, on top of the obvious benefit of her spell becoming a single target version of the Magician Sub class's Magic Transfer spell.
Also, as a somewhat related note, would it be a bad thing to want to replace Eirin's "Pharmacologist's Poison Mixing" with Arm-Twisting, if only to make the ailments that Eirin already delivers with her spells become more effective(I would also make "Mercury Sea" deal Poison instead of its debuff, and place the aformentioned debuff on the other spell that she has that deals a debuff, so it can deal both of them. That way, there is no true loss in switching out the former skill with the latter, and with both Arm Twisting and People of the Moon, Eirin can cause serious havoc to bosses and floor trash alike with the proper build)?
I can figure that people would call this OP, but isn't Eirin normally given a defensive build in the first place? Arm Twisting can allow for Eirin to become able to pierce through affinity and make her damage dealing more reliable, or at least more easily inflict an ailment that you need to put on a tough opponent(read: Tenshi) in order to hinder them.
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And the Team 9 run is done. Hit postgame before the 30 hour achievement, beat Strengthen Ame at 40 hours. No way I'm just going to idle for 20 hours to finish off the achievement list.
This game is just so, so, so much easier than the first game. Thinking about doing a solo character run next.
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I'm not into lore too much but I thought kaggy was immortal WITHOUT the elixir, and her powers were somehow used to make the elixir?
You are in a way right. Lunarians living on the moon are ageless as long as they stay on the moon, and since Kaguya's power is the control of the instantaneous and eternity, she is essentially immortal already. In fact the Hourai Elixir was created from her power. When Kaguya was first executed for drinking the Hourai Elixir, in her lore on IN, it said that she revived using her own power, not naturally reviving from the Hourai Elixir. So from the way I'm seeing it, there was basically no reason for her to even ask Eirin to make the Hourai Elixir. I think she just got her to make it cause she was bored or somethin. Spoiled lunarian princess.
@ Serela That's not why the IN incident happened. After the Lunarians had tried to continually tried to execute Kaguya and she just would not stay dead... They sent her to Earth as punishment. Kaguya actually didn't take it as punishment, and enjoyed Earth. The Lunarians sent may emmissaries to bring Kaguya back, but she refused each time because she loved the new place she was living. The lunarians didn't stop sending people to bring her back though. One the emmissaries was Eirin, and rather then trying to bring her back, she asked for her forgiveness and to work up under her. Eirin sealed off most of her power and became her servant (Eirin was one of the first people to move to the moon from Earth and is thought to be Lord Omoikane). Any other emmissary that came to bring Kaguya back was killed by Eirin. They had to go into hiding cause of that. Thousands of years later (They probably would have forgiven them by now), Reisen came to Earth to escape the Lunar-Earth War, Kaguya and Eirin took her in. Eventually the Lunarians got in contact with Kaguya and Eirin and told her that they were gonna bring Reisen back without any exceptions. This is what lead to the IN incident. It was for Reisen's sake. Hiding the full moon blah blah, it ended being pointless cause the Gensokyo barrier would have kept the lunarians from entering. Nice story huh? (Thus is why Kaguya is best character)
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The after-game enemies and bosses are incredibly fast and hit REALLY hard. Does anyone have any tips for grinding? The only method that seems to work for me is using Aya's Divine Grandson on Yuyuko in hopes of casting DTH on as much enemies as possible, with Reisen on the side for her Intense Vertigo skill (which hopefully increases those chances). Yuyuko even insta-killed the first three Strengthen bosses for me (one had Star DTH resist?? I think I was lucky). Nobody else seems to have enough damage to kill most of them before they move or enough defenses to stand up against several spammed party-clearing fire attacks in a row.
Also, can anyone tell me how to get past the rock on 11F? I think I cleared most of 15F and don't really know where to go next.
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For the entirety of the postgame, the most efficient place to grind is the 20F depths. You can get battles that give more XP and Yen in places like 16F Extra, but they're much, much harder. At a relatively early point, you can one-shot most every 20F depths encounter (which are always just 1 enemy unit), with an empowered 1MP attack. It really can't be beat.
There are two rocks in 11F extra. One is cleared by defeating all 12 reflections, and one is cleared by hitting the switch in the west side of 11F extra. You may have ignored them because they look like color switches (confused me too), but they are one-time switches that you have to press.
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you probably know, but don't forget to mash 'm' to make grinding much faster too.
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It's also really useful to take Nazrin, Kourin and Komachi with you for increased Item drops and Money.
Just drop some money into Nazrin's offense. She'll pay you back in no time. In the beginning you might need have to use gambler to one-shot most of the stuff but later on you can gear out to pull of huge battle chains and get around 300k moneys with about 40 battles per run. Experience piles up as well on the side.
Luckily most of the enemies there are either weak to physical type attacks and/or divine. As if the devs planned that along with the fact that it is always just 1 enemy. :V
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The after-game enemies and bosses are incredibly fast and hit REALLY hard. Does anyone have any tips for grinding? The only method that seems to work for me is using Aya's Divine Grandson on Yuyuko in hopes of casting DTH on as much enemies as possible, with Reisen on the side for her Intense Vertigo skill (which hopefully increases those chances). Yuyuko even insta-killed the first three Strengthen bosses for me (one had Star DTH resist?? I think I was lucky). Nobody else seems to have enough damage to kill most of them before they move or enough defenses to stand up against several spammed party-clearing fire attacks in a row.
Also, can anyone tell me how to get past the rock on 11F? I think I cleared most of 15F and don't really know where to go next.
The poison wasp is the one with star death resist. I don't think you got lucky, I landed it pretty easily. However, when I tried to land death on Ama no Murakumo, it would not work at all. So I think there are different levels of "Star" resists. I dunno, can someone clear this up?
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I'd guess it's a bit similar to how the character resistances are, i.e based on numbers. Star would just be something like 450-500.
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I'm guessing you're meaning elemental resistance, cause 450-500 ailment resistance sounds like it would never ever ever happen.
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No, ailment resistance. 450-499 would just be low. Like low low low low low. Like 1% if that low. 500 would be Perfect immunity.
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12F Bosses. Namely the mirror and magatama.
Even reading about 'how' you would beat them I seem to be completely incapable of even making more than a small dent in either of them. The Magatama I think I've figured out (it being weak to Reisen = me laughing my ass off, I just have to get the rest of the party set up); but the mirror it seems like only three or four characters can hope to damage - half of which will get eaten alive by its attacks in turn. ...Any suggestions?
also speaking of the moon rabbit, is it just me or is Reisen seriously one of the best characters in this game? Discarder is just so good even before adding Hexer, and she can be built with plenty of MAG and overall well-rounded to both decently survive hits and wipe enemy groups with Mind Starmine. I don't think I've taken her out of my party since I got her, which I don't think I can say for anyone else at this point (although Momiji, Reimu, Rumia, and Cirno come close).
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oh finally someone who had a hard time with 12f minibosses. They were nasty for me too, and then when I saw the "Real" boss after I was like oh god, oh god no.. and then it was easy.. pft.
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Leaning Iron Mountain from monk subclass is pretty helpful on the mirror, iirc. It's even weak to nature! I also think it was easier to hit it with magic than physicals (apart from Leaning Mount, of course) but that's a vague thought...
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Leaning Iron Mountain from monk subclass is pretty helpful on the mirror, iirc. It's even weak to nature! I also think it was easier to hit it with magic than physicals (apart from Leaning Mount, of course) but that's a vague thought...
Yeah i didnt have a monk yet on my first playthu. But on my next imma get a monk soon for sure. Its passives are obviously nice but its attack spells seem to have better formulas than most pure nuke classes 4-5sp nukes.
The warrior nukes on the other hand seemed relatively unimpressive, only used them for elemetal weaknesses.
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Leaning Iron Mountain has stable damage due to getting through defense, but it's lackluster in cases where your ATK or MAG stat already significantly outclasses the enemy's def/mnd. This becomes more apparent in postgame where your attacker's atk/mag are most likely, slowly getting pumped farther and farther ahead of other stats due to equipments and levelup bonuses. Also because you're likely overleveling to smash through bosses since it's not too hard to reach lv180-ish, which is around the level to get to for the strengthened final boss, the last thing to fight.
I never actually tried the WND attack on Monk, though. It's single target, unlike how the Sorc and Warrior's less interesting skills are clearly designed for AoE random battle use, so I could understand it actually being pretty nice. Speaking of Warrior, I really should have used Explosive Flame Sword more, since I was using Mokou tank a lot (blazing passive) and many bosses were weak to it, yet I had -no- source of FIR on any of my damage dealers. But after a bit I phased all uses of warrior out of my party in exchange for other subclasses or for characters who wanted something else more...
Sorc subclass skills are basically only good for adding elemental variety to your skillset, that much I found out. Several magic users can get good use from that, though, and their single-target is still okayish damage for hitting bosses, so that's fine. Just nothing special.
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Yeah it's obviously more for defense being an issue situations but..well fact is, I found that WAS the situation for like half the effing bosses in the game, and even a fair amount of trash. Soo.. overall, it's an effing good spell =P.
The wind spell is obviously less outstanding for when it's useful but it didn't really strike me as a "will never be useful ever over your own nukes unless elemental weakness" nuke. It was a fair spell in its own right with fast delay (which is good since not everyone has a decent fast delay nuke). So it's useful if you want wind OR low delay...not to mention since monk buffs all stats with every turn, having a fast delay is a nice plus too. Good for getting a quick hit on something before a slower character buffs you. I also had monk on nitori and she could dish out a couple of those to overheat herself before 3d cannon. Not saying monk is her class per say, but it was satisfying since she can have good stats all-round due to maint, not just her attack, plus her self buff too...not sure if it's her ideal subclass but it's certainly up there. Incidentally, I gave her monk really late cuz she was op and I didn't want to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak by spending an early stone on my already op character.
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So I started my Solo True Hard Mode Run.
By "True Hard Mode", I simply mean that I am not retaining any "illegal" bonus points, stat levels, or skill levels one can achieve by going past the challenge level, then leveling down. I'm hacking in infinite Tomes of Reincarnation, but otherwise it's a perfectly normal NG+.
Solo means that only 1 character can be in my party at any time. I can change my party in town however many times I want, though.
I'm also avoiding early boss death cheese, just 'cause.
I've just finished up the first stratum except for one boss. Surprisingly, the Evil Nut Eater is by far the hardest boss to do solo at challenge level. My current plan is to proceed until I have subclasses, then destroy him with a Guardian Momiji.
I'm not sure this run is possible! Thoughts of level 100 Ame fill me with dread. But I'll go as far as I can, recording all of the bosses with challenge levels (so no FOEs). So far there's been a pretty nice variety of characters used. Getting to level 2 on 1F took forever. At some point I'll start posting the videos.
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Transcendent is totes Nitori's ideal class (unless it's a case where the subclass attack does a lot of damage in comparison to Super Scope for a fraction of the cost and delay...) because, due to having low base stats that are good anyway due to Maintennance, her stats all actually shoot up an awful lot if you max it out. Like, her def/mnd can go up 20%-ish, and her ATK gets a pretty good benefit too... plus the 10% damage dealt/taken part.
About the postgame bosses, it really feels like you're intended to debuff a lot of them to hell and back using something ridiculous like Hina, Reisen, or an Armtwisting Hexer.
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Well, I was able to down the Mirror afterall.
It's the Magatama that's giving me hell now, and at this point I am mildly certain that its speed grows over the course of the battle. Not via buffs; just a constant increasing of its base speed value, which is kind of nonsense. Because I can't find good enough characters for dealing damage (nevermind surviving most of its crap) to beat it down in a reasonable time frame.
EDIT: Go figure, I barely manage to squeak out a win about two attempts after I post this. That fight was still stupid though. Yuugi and Reisen are still god-tier characters
EDIT 2: Time to do some grinding before Tenshi
I guess. (please tell me every boss through the rest of the game doesn't rely on stupid huge DEF/MND scores)
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Its speed becomes rather silly in such a way that later on you can't even switch people in (expect maybe with Kourin) to deliver the finishing blow and with it having rather high defense it is somewhat difficult to find someone who is able to consistently deal damage to it and survive its hits. Debuffing is also rather meh since it is so fast and just shakes them off. (And it resists the element types I tend to use most but that is just my own fault.)
The Magatama is the best boss in the game handsdown.
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When I was playing 12th floor the bosses I had the hardest time with was High Mirror (And Tenshi, though not as bad as high mirror). High Mirror is ridiculous. Oh my god. He isn't as bad in the later floors (cause more money items, and stuff) but oh my god did I have a hard time with High Mirror. Magatama wasn't as bad. It was a lot easier than High Mirror despite being faster imo.
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Much to my surprise, Tenshi was actually really easy?
It was just a matter of figuring out which characters could actually damage her (Rumia and Utsuho's defense piercing was big, but Reisen (in addition to debuffs), Sakuya, and Patchouli were able to hurt her); after that, it was surprisingly easy to get Momiji/Yuugi/Komachi tanking everything she could do like it was no big deal (when her attack is debuffed even the attack that's supposed to punish you for buffing can be shrugged off) and then just swapping people in and out between her attacks.
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Yeah 12f tenshi was complete cake for me too.
As for bosses with stupid def/mnd... Sadly there are more, frankly i think the bosses in lot1 were more fun because they didnt absolutely require glass cannons or super op characters like nitori to hit for more than 0.
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I think on the later bosses you're just expected to use def/mnd debuffs (Reisen/Hina and/or armtwisting hexers help get the job done- best choice being Kogasa who also just happens to carry a strong mnd debuff) or make a lot of use of the people who can ignore it, like Rumia/Utsuho/Shikieiki and the entire Eientei team. There's a lot of it, yeah, but the game has a lot of options to deal with it this time.
Also a lot of the postgame bosses really require using debuffs on their other stats too if you're going to beat them at challenge level and/or without cheesing.
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problem is they expect you to debuff them or do nothing... you say tehre's alot of options but the problem is most of the bosses have high debuff resistance too, so unless you have armtwisting, or something character-unique that either has an easy time landing debuffs anyway despite the resistance or something (dunno other than armtwisting but my non-arm-twisting hexer would fail to land a debuff on such bosses like 19 times outta 20, so I imagine your examples other than arm-twisters have something that lets them land more often), it's still quite limiting IMO. Yeah there are more than one option, and it's better than the number of viable tanks in lot1 but... it's still a downer IMO.
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so I imagine your examples other than arm-twisters have something that lets them land more often
Someone said Hina's move seemed to land on debuff-resistant enemies pretty decently regardless. I wouldn't know, but I figure that even if it's a bit awkward it's probably strong enough at max level w/Hexer to still be worth spamming (since she loves hexer's conversion and debuffed Hina isn't even inconvenient once Byakuren-buffer is online- you can even debuff-proof your tanks fairly well by then with little sacrifice) ESPECIALLY if she's your tank sitting around with turns anyway, and Reisen has the resistance lower thing along with Discarder. I don't know how effective Intense Vertigo is but it basically is a weaker Arm Twisting for the whole front line.
Anyway, I think the bottom line is... they wanted to make the game more challenging, but then they threw in things like Arm Twisting, subclasses, enough def/mnd ignoring attacks to fill an entire team roster's worth of attackers... this end result kind of sucks for people who DON'T take big advantage of those things, but in the end, it more or less just means you don't beat the postbosses at challenge level unless you cheese by using some lv1/empty party member slots. One person said they just did debuff wrecking ball strats with every boss, so it should be viable.
I figure it makes sense that it's a B to do postgame fights at challenge level if you aren't going to use useful options available to you. I do agree that some of them seem a bit crazy though if you just have an OTHERWISE great party. The first Deformed Boss is like, WHAT?! Whenever I do a second run and utilize Hina/Kogasa Hexer and some of those irresistable nukers I imagine it's going to be a world of difference.
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Hina does not care at all about enemy resistance to debuffs.
And she's still perfectly usable without having Byakuren if you gear a proper amount of people with debuff resist (or have some that are innately nigh immune) and have Rumia and/or Sanae to shrug them off.
I actually never found Byakuren to be all that useful in my parties. Most people who needed buffs got them by themselves and for everybody else there is Sanae or they just didn't get any :V.
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I think part of the issue is that the first game didn't have any finite methods of character growth. If you wanted to switch up your party, you may need to farm some skill points, but those characters will be at their best once you catch up. In the second game, there are finite gems (until the final boss), and finite tomes of reincarnation. This means you either use them and feel like you can't switch those characters out of your party, or you never use them and you're not at peak efficiency.
I'm reasonably convinced that requiring a tome of reincarnation to recoup gems and training manuals is the single worst design decision in the game.
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Tenshi was somewhat of an issue for me at first, but I eventually figured out how to beat her. I simply had to give everyone nature resistance. I wasn't giving it to enough people, just my tanks. Then from there I simply had to debuff with Hina and apply heavy/silence and deal damage with Kasen and uh... Reisen? Yeah. But Tenshi constantly spamming Violent Motherland was really really annoying.
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I think part of the issue is that the first game didn't have any finite methods of character growth. If you wanted to switch up your party, you may need to farm some skill points, but those characters will be at their best once you catch up. In the second game, there are finite gems (until the final boss), and finite tomes of reincarnation. This means you either use them and feel like you can't switch those characters out of your party, or you never use them and you're not at peak efficiency.
Overstatement. Gems don't do much and should be spent very carefully anyway to ensure it's a character you KNOW you're keeping, especially since they do little enough that you don't need to feel like you're missing out by not using them right away. And by little I mean when you're using the max of 10, which you probably won't even have for def/mnd by the time you beat the final boss.
Characters with good atk/mag will only get like a 1/12th increase in their stat from ten gems, which you might have nearly 20 of at final boss time. DEF/MND increases are bigger (and more imporant!) but the gems seem to be rarer. By then you should have a pretty good idea on where you want to put them.
And, the other uses for tomes of reincarnation (library costs returned) matters so little after the break between pre-20f-depths-enemies and post-20f that you basically only need them for gem recouping, which you should NOT need to do anywhere near enough to dwindle reincarnation supplies. Even if you carelessly spend some gems or rethink a decision, you should have more than enough books of reincarnation lying around. You find a ton more in postgame, as well.
First game was much worse about switching out your party IMO. Skill point gap was not quite as kind IMO, and the biggest offender is... people not in your party gain 20% less exp. The difference is lower now even if you're using EXP bonus skills, which you're likely not until pretty late in the game. Gems and Reincarnation Tomes are more like an OCD complaint than a legit game issue- they make a very small difference on characters other than Nitori/Renko (one being at the very, very end of the game) so hardly hurts efficiency and if you're going through tomes of reincarnation that much you're being really unsmart about gem usage.
With stat scaling on level ups, I'm pretty sure even if you wanted to use a lot of gems on the person you just switched in but couldn't for some reason, you're still better off than you were switching people in in LoT1. Eventually the exp difference smoothes out, but it takes a long time. Library levels were imo more restrictive in LoT1 too but w/e
MP Gems make the biggest difference since 10 mp is actually a helluva lot of mp, but they're also the most common one and only a few characters -really- get a big boost from it. Like Nitori. Geez, why does she have to be worth sinking every gem (minus magic) and all your best gear on. TOO GOOD.
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My point was that I think people feel worse about switching in characters because of the mechanic, but I mixed in a purist gripe that didn't really belong. Even if the gems are subtle mechanical differences, I think they have a much more profound effect on player behavior.
I felt perfectly fine switching out my characters in LoT 1, and less-so in 2. Of course I'm not necessarily representative, but it does make me think there's something there.
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In LoT1, switching characters on a regular basis barely even seemable viable to me imo- in LoT2 on the other hand, it almost seems encouraged. Everyone will likely have the same EXP until late in the game, and same goes for how much the library matters. In LoT1 you're losing significant amounts of exp on the characters you need for bosses by not using them ;_;
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Insanely large post incoming: Not quite as big as I thought it'd be. I've done this before where I leave a thread for a month or two and come back, quoting posts of interest that I missed and its usually a lot larger.
https://www.mediafire.com/?t1v567p5sced1zl
I've updated the English patch for LoT1 Special Disk.
Fixes:
-The level goddess no longer calls Rinnosuke a lady
-Re-added the image for Meiling's mountain breaker and Youmu's slash of eternity. Youmu's graphic is also used in Alice's boss fight (IIRC), so that's incidentally fixed, as well as Sanae's miracle fruits and Kanako's Virtue of Wind God, which use the same graphic as Mountain Breaker.
-Changed the names of 'Magic Sword "Chaos"' and 'Holy Sword "Sunlight"' to 'Demonic Sword Chaos' and 'Holy Sword Nikkou'. "Nikkou" is her name, so it shouldn't be translated. Also updated the translation note with some more information. All that Sengoku Rance has been paying off.
-Changed Rinnosuke's out-of-TP message
-Changed Mary's name to "Maribel Hearn"
-I think there were a few untranslated names, like Shikieiki v3 or something.
-Changed all "(u)huhu" to the vastly superior "(u)fufu"
-Fixed the Arturos Gem/King Arthur mixup - the "Found treasure!" line uses Arturos Gem now.
-Probably a couple of other things I can't remember.
Did not fix:
-The missing sound effects on enemy plus-disk character bosses. Can't figure that crap out.
Dunno how many people still play 1, but here it is. Only took four years. This seems to work perfectly fine, but fixing the Lady/Lord issue on levelup involved more assembly than I like, so it's possible I broke something.
You will need the .orig files for img.dxa, img1.dxa, and thLabyrinth_ver3.exe for the patch to work. If there are any issues, running the old patch ( http://www.mediafire.com/?c0ic698csyvwfcb ) will undo everything... again, as long as you have the .orig files.
Awesome. I still play LoT1 from time to time. Floor 30 is ridiculous. I can handle almost all the "trash" encounters, with Chen giving me trouble if I'm crazy unlucky, but I still need to grind an absurd amount to take on the bosses on the floor. I'm probably going to need help with patching since I acquired the Special Disk prepatched from a friend. Haven't read the readme yet though, so I won't be asking for help just yet (busy catching up on the thread after a several month leave due to school work).
Pharmacologist is a good subclass for tanks with spare turns. Use Herb of Excitement on whoever's about to attack (It lasts for two of their turns for 36% extra damage at max) or use Placebo Effect on people with like 50~70% buffs to keep them high up. Incense Treatment isn't much good- it's highly situational and even then it costs 5 points instead of 3 to level, and is really costly to use until maxed.
Can't agree with you enough. Making Wriggle a Pharmacologist was the best thing I could have done with her, with my setup.
It's probably better to make your own opinions than go off the descriptions anyway- some of them are outdated due to character rebalancing, some of them I just don't really agree with, and in several cases you can make other effective ways to creatively use people.
What the descriptions SHOULD be is a general idea of what the character is capable of and what their strengths and weaknesses are. They never were meant as the "be all end all" build for said character. That said, everything you've stated is true. I REALLY didn't agree with some of them, but since I never wanted to sit down and rewrite them, I just edited the descriptions enough for me to bear with them.
Also, yeah, Nitori is just crazy, given she'll become as tanky as your tanks in a FULL ATTACK BUILD and has one of the strongest attacks in the entire game, with the gigantic mp recovery potential to spam it despite cost and delay. I wouldn't say Renko exactly makes other tanks obsolete since lots of other tanks have special qualities and her moveset is limited and begs for certain subclasses unless you just ditched it for Pharmacologist (viable but lol) and, quite honestly, you get Renko SO LATE IN THE GAME that I'm kind of glad she's got enough of an edge to shine a little. Maribel is kind of meh other than her passive to treat enemy buffs as debuffs, but she's quite versatile at least and many late postgame bosses buff themselves sometimes so I didn't feel like I wasted the slot... but yeah she's generally pretty eh.
Yeah, Tank Byakuren Strategist is just too good. That said, I still use Renko for an instantaneous buff to everyone at the start of a battle when used in conjunction with Aya and also to refresh buffs when they get dispelled. I also have Byakuren on the frontline as well when I do this, to get a jump start on her buffing spree. Dodging_Rain beat me to it.
Is Maribel's non elemental attack meh as well? I was actually looking forward to trying it out once I got through post game with my first playthrough (which I did, kept saves before the final boss though since I'd rather keep farming for gems with the weaker version before a Plus Disk of sorts comes out) and once I be the final boss for the first time on my synergy run (which I REALLY need to get back into).
I stilll use Renko's charge even with Byakuren on the field because Culex
and strengthened Ame-no-Murakumo has a minion with a skill that will dispel your buffs (including Overheat) until I eliminate it first (which are the times when I use Renko as enhancers) but against anything else I just need a charge for the initial phase to hand buffs to Byakuren to pass around which leaves Renko open for other tasks, plus a fully buffed Nitori with herb of excitement and stacks of overheat is scary. Admittedly I still have Renko as enhancer but I will see if I can move her to pharmacist later on although it may not be the case if there are more dispel users in future contents.
It doesn't seem to have any benefit from leveling, for some reason. No reduction in MP cost, the post-use gauge doesn't change, and the healing doesn't change either.
As for Hourai Elixir, it is named after Mt Penglai (Hourai in japanese mythology), that was said to be a place where immortals lived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Penglai
Speaking of cards that have no apparent benefits to leveling, Magic Filling annoys me the most. My Magicians have all these extra skill points and Magic Filling does nothing more when leveled (as far as I know). I first thought it would decrease the rate at which the buff decays but alas, it was not the case.
@ Serela That's not why the IN incident happened. After the Lunarians had tried to continually tried to execute Kaguya and she just would not stay dead... They sent her to Earth as punishment. Kaguya actually didn't take it as punishment, and enjoyed Earth. The Lunarians sent may emmissaries to bring Kaguya back, but she refused each time because she loved the new place she was living. The lunarians didn't stop sending people to bring her back though. One the emmissaries was Eirin, and rather then trying to bring her back, she asked for her forgiveness and to work up under her. Eirin sealed off most of her power and became her servant (Eirin was one of the first people to move to the moon from Earth and is thought to be Lord Omoikane). Any other emmissary that came to bring Kaguya back was killed by Eirin. They had to go into hiding cause of that. Thousands of years later (They probably would have forgiven them by now), Reisen came to Earth to escape the Lunar-Earth War, Kaguya and Eirin took her in. Eventually the Lunarians got in contact with Kaguya and Eirin and told her that they were gonna bring Reisen back without any exceptions. This is what lead to the IN incident. It was for Reisen's sake. Hiding the full moon blah blah, it ended being pointless cause the Gensokyo barrier would have kept the lunarians from entering. Nice story huh? (Thus is why Kaguya is best character)
That just made my day. I was always tired of the crap Reisen gets as far as fandom goes (she gets crap even in "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" which despite being a 4-koma, is technically canon to the universe) and reading that the entire IN incident was for her sake made me really happy. (If it wasn't obvious by now, Reisen is one of my favorite Touhous).
MP Gems make the biggest difference since 10 mp is actually a helluva lot of mp, but they're also the most common one and only a few characters -really- get a big boost from it. Like Nitori. Geez, why does she have to be worth sinking every gem (minus magic) and all your best gear on. TOO GOOD.
However, MP Gems (and TP Gems) are not farmable (with good reason).
Also, I forgot who mentioned it, but I'm also really hesitant about using limited supply items. To this day, I still have not used a single MP / TP Gem. I've also yet to use a Skill Boost Tome since I haven't quite finalized my party yet. Marisa is looking to be the next person I cut for a more flexible and consistent MAG attacker in Yuuka. That said, I haven't tried Yuuka out yet to make the decision.
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I took both Marisa and Alice with me on my first run and was rather disappointed. Marisa's consistent damage was okay-ish even with Alice in the back row for the boost and her Master Spark really lost most of its impact it had in LoT1.
Alice seems to have taken a hit in terms of offensive capabilities as well seeing as she doesn't even deal much damage to fire-weak enemies (of which there are a lot so I thought she'd be useful and kept her for some time after giving Marisa the boot).
The damage formula for Artful Sacrifice seems to factor in a lot of the enemies defense since it always did either nothing or an acceptable amount. (Same goes for her other spells).
The thing with Yuuka is that she starts of rather weak on the defensive side (except for enemies that use only Nature and/or Mystic element attacks).
She needs some investment in her weak resistances and a lot of skillpoints, but once that point is reached she can comfortably take the second-left slot for most encounters.
(My experiences might be biased since she gets favorable treatment from me. :V)
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However, MP Gems (and TP Gems) are not farmable (with good reason).
Also, I forgot who mentioned it, but I'm also really hesitant about using limited supply items. To this day, I still have not used a single MP / TP Gem. I've also yet to use a Skill Boost Tome since I haven't quite finalized my party yet. Marisa is looking to be the next person I cut for a more flexible and consistent MAG attacker in Yuuka. That said, I haven't tried Yuuka out yet to make the decision.
Wait a second.
Why would MP and TP gems not being farmable be a good thing? I thought that the limit for any gem on a character is 10, so why?
Also, they should make a reusable version of "Tome of Reincarnation", because it makes no damn sense for that item to be limited in usage.
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Is Maribel's non elemental attack meh as well? I was actually looking forward to trying it out once I got through post game with my first playthrough
It's alright for randoms. Not super special, but nice. A boss would have to have 200+ affinity across the board to consider using it on one of those, though. Her other attack is also better in randoms since the status effects are pretty strong on it.
Also, they should make a reusable version of "Tome of Reincarnation", because it makes no damn sense for that item to be limited in usage.
I don't really get the hate on tome of reincarnation. It didn't even exist in LoT1, where it would still have been pretty important for library level refunds, as they were more severe in cost in that game imo. I also still don't understand how you're likely to go through them even if you're a bit loose about it.
With Tomes of Reincarnation you can, for example, do things like blow every gem, manual, and yen on someone ideal for a boss and then ABSOLUTELY SLAUGHTER IT, and then tome them back down. Tome of Reincarnation is actually pretty fuggin powerful, and basically removes the concept of having characters that you've invested in more than others, even if you've been devotedly pumping them extra the entire game. (I did that strat a couple times- for killing 6F Tenshi with Yuugi on ZERO GRINDING self-imposed limitation so I was like lv20, and then for 20F Mirror with Suwako. And then kept Suwako for a short time to help with 20f depths grinds. The strat was extremely effective and Suwako was fuggin nuts whilst I kept her)
Like, while the effect WOULD be lessened in postgame where money (and therefore library efficiency) is bloated and the enemies are fearsome enough for your superpumped character to not be so overwhelming, it still basically puts every character in your roster at blank-slate potential. You might think that's cool, but it's like, there's a reason some stuff isn't freely refundable? You already have equal EXP distribution before passives and free levelup bonus reassignment, switching your team about is a million times easier than LoT1, etc. It's just a way so that if you use some of those limited items on a character you think you'll keep and then go "oops, changed my mind" you're fine, and you get plenty of them so you could even change your ENTIRE team in postgame.
(About tomes of enlightenment, by the time you've got spare skill points for them [the wiki writer clearly has a much higher opinion of boost skills than me] you should be near the final boss or later, so you should know who's staying in your team and who could use them)
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The consumables that my Cheat Engine cannot farm are next to none :V
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I don't really get the hate on tome of reincarnation. It didn't even exist in LoT1, where it would still have been pretty important for library level refunds, as they were more severe in cost in that game imo. I also still don't understand how you're likely to go through them even if you're a bit loose about it.
First of all, I think you're drastically overstating the number of ToRs there are in the game. I think there're like 13 or something? That's not a high number at all.
Second, I submit that it's something of a self fulfilling prophecy. By limiting their supply, you are necessarily going to be much more conscientious of their applications. You'll form an internal heuristic for when it is "worthwhile", and that heuristic might be strict enough that you feel that you could never run out if you follow it. If they are farmable, that heuristic changes, and you become proportionally more carefree about their use. If they're infinitely free, even more so.
In my solo hard run, I've not completed the second stratum yet, and I've used over 50. Of course it's an esoteric run, and that changes things to some degree, but I would probably have a similarly high count (20-30 or so) if I were doing a normal hard mode run while still having infinite ToRs.
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The consumables that my Cheat Engine cannot farm are next to none :V
I tried that with the 20% Damage Taken/Dealt item just to see if it stacks.
It doesn't :(
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In my solo hard run, I've not completed the second stratum yet, and I've used over 50. Of course it's an esoteric run, and that changes things to some degree, but I would probably have a similarly high count (20-30 or so) if I were doing a normal hard mode run while still having infinite ToRs.
Well, the solo run is different- you're going to use everything you have on the one person you're using, of course.
But regardless, the point is different. If you had infinite gems you'd be using a ton of those too. Just because having infinite means you use it more doesn't mean you should have more of them. It changes the balance of the game and I don't think in a way that's for the better. Regaining monetary cost from the library and spending gems frivolously is two things. One, it means you can blow all your stuff to power people up and just recoup it for no cost, without worrying about anything and using this to make the game easier. Second, it's also a powerup that's really goddamn tedious.
Anyway, this is a pointless conversation. Of course if you hack the game to give yourself more of a powerful item you're going to use it a lot. That doesn't say anything about the balance of limiting it. If you were limited you'd use them smartly instead of spending gems and manuals so early in the game and so frivolously, so you wouldn't need them. The benefit from using the gems/tomes is fairly low in most cases anyway, especially when spending significantly less than 10 gems, and considering one person getting some gems is only one out of 12. (MP is a little different. And using boost tomes probably isn't even worth it yet because you should spend your points on something else.)
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Speaking of ToR, decided to use one on Koma and decided to replace guardian with pharmacologist, and it is working lovely. She's a lot more useful now then when she had guardian and is just as tanky. Also, the Herb of Excitement made it possible to kill Ama no Murakumo during his first phase with Kasen, Flandre, Reisen, and Aya. I simply had to take advantage of Aya's Divaness and 937 speed. lolol.
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Speaking of ToR, decided to use one on Koma and decided to replace guardian with pharmacologist, and it is working lovely. She's a lot more useful now then when she had guardian and is just as tanky.
Just to make sure: you can reset subclasses without ToRs. Doing a skill reset also removes your subclass.
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Ouch, yeah, you can reset subclasses without reincarnating XD The tome is for resetting Library levels (including getting the money spent back) and the special Hakurei Shrine consumable items like training manuals, gems, and tomes of enlightenment.
Speaking of training manuals, if you're using Rinnosuke, just dump every single one you ever get onto him. Even at lv200 he thirsts for more skillpoints. Once you hit the final boss area, all your other most skillpoint-thirsty characters like Byakuren should still be basically fine. (That being said, dumping them all on someone like Byakuren until you reach that point and then reincarnating wouldn't be bad)
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Wait a second.
Why would MP and TP gems not being farmable be a good thing? I thought that the limit for any gem on a character is 10, so why?
Also, they should make a reusable version of "Tome of Reincarnation", because it makes no damn sense for that item to be limited in usage.
Serela already pointed out how useful MP Gems are to Nitori (and Okuu), though I will say that I think more than just a few characters benefit from additional MP.
Maybe I'm just blowing things out of proportion, but the prospect of being able to get all 12 party members to have +10 MP sounds broken to me. I can only get 3 characters to +10 MP with all the MP gems in the entire game. Some people might be able to get 4 or even 5 characters with +10 MP if they beat bosses at challenge level and were lucky.
TP is a lot less useful, given that few characters actually have interactions with it. Still, 10 extra TP could potentially give Mokou two more Resurrections, gives Kasen and Meiling another shot at activating Guts, and gives characters with Emergency Recovery and Rapid Charge more uses.
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I just used TP gems on characters I wanted in my random battles more (especially people who only defaulted at like 10~12 tp) but the actual TP Boost skill does give you like 10 more tp too, albiet 10 skp on that is a postgame thing.
If Mokou dies that much you probably can't handle that boss anyway, and Kasen/Meiling have to get awfully lucky to trigger 3 guts given the 50% chances, but those are definitely still nice uses. Especially on the fights where Mokou is dying that much simply because the boss has some ridiculous nukey attack.
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Serela already pointed out how useful MP Gems are to Nitori (and Okuu), though I will say that I think more than just a few characters benefit from additional MP.
Maybe I'm just blowing things out of proportion, but the prospect of being able to get all 12 party members to have +10 MP sounds broken to me. I can only get 3 characters to +10 MP with all the MP gems in the entire game. Some people might be able to get 4 or even 5 characters with +10 MP if they beat bosses at challenge level and were lucky.
Well, 10 extra MP would be great for all, yes. But really, I actually can't see that as a actual game breaker, since they put a "10 of any one gem limit" into the system to prevent it from being more than 10 MP.
TP is a lot less useful, given that few characters actually have interactions with it. Still, 10 extra TP could potentially give Mokou two more Resurrections, gives Kasen and Meiling another shot at activating Guts, and gives characters with Emergency Recovery and Rapid Charge more uses.
And that's a good reason to allow for farming TP gems. After all, a few extra activations of said skills wouldn't break the game, would it?
Speaking of training manuals, if you're using Rinnosuke, just dump every single one you ever get onto him. Even at lv200 he thirsts for more skillpoints.
Ah, the price of turning Rinnosuke into MANnosuke is a hefty one, ne?
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Well I kind of had to use a ToR on Koma anyway, I had some useless gems on her (back when I was starting off playing this... mistakes were made), I'm guessing you can get rid of gems with skill reset (I hope not)
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I'm guessing you can get rid of gems with skill reset (I hope not)
You can't.
ToR will reset the points spent in the Magic Library, Gems, Training Manuals and Tome of Insight on the character you use it on (Subclass and Skill points included, since you have to perform a reset before having the option of using a ToR). Skill reset will only reset their Skill points and their Subclass. And you can rearrange the LvlUp bonuses at any point without resetting anything else.
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You can't.
ToR will reset the points spent in the Magic Library, Gems, Training Manuals and Tome of Insight on the character you use it on (Subclass and Skill points included, since you have to perform a reset before having the option of using a ToR). Skill reset will only reset their Skill points and their Subclass. And you can rearrange the LvlUp bonuses at any point without resetting anything else.
As a bizarre point of interest: ToRs reset your level up bonuses too, even though it's unnecessary.
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You can't.
ToR will reset the points spent in the Magic Library, Gems, Training Manuals and Tome of Insight on the character you use it on (Subclass and Skill points included, since you have to perform a reset before having the option of using a ToR). Skill reset will only reset their Skill points and their Subclass. And you can rearrange the LvlUp bonuses at any point without resetting anything else.
Well that's a good thing.
EDIT
You say you can reset subclasses w/out ToR, but how do you do it? When I go to skill reset in the library, it says you need a ToR, after all.
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Just skill reset, then say no to using a ToR. That character will lose their subclass and your Stone of Awakening will be refunded.
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Not sure if right place to post this but I have no idea how to patch Labyrinth of Touhou 2.
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There's no patcher or anything. Once you grab the patch (click the button on this (http://www1.axfc.net/u/3119481.zip?key=THL2Patch) page), just copy the files over your installation.
All of the translation efforts can be found in this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html) thread. They are installed the same way, by pasting the contents over your installation. Feel free to make backups at any step in case you're worried.
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I mean like I have the Trial version(that DLSite thingy) and I already have that patch but I have literally no idea how to patch the game.You said to just drag the files over to the installation?After replacing the exe and trying to run it,it opens for a bit then closes.(I runned the Exe from the rar that I copied over the old exe(The one that's the 0200 version))
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Not sure if right place to post this but I have no idea how to patch Labyrinth of Touhou 2.
What Hawk said, with this addition: Once you've put all the files in place, run the .exe that's included in the patcher files, instead of the original one.
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I mean like I have the Trial version
You mean you have the demo version of the game? Sorry, but you're not going to be able to english patch that. You need the full game that's patched to the latest version, which I think is 1.203, before you can apply the english to it.
I'm also p.sure only the .exe file is necessary, the rest of the stuff in the english patch download is for the translation effort I guess or something.
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I'm pretty sure you need the DXAs, since they do the image replacements.
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I'm pretty sure you need the DXAs, since they do the image replacements.
They indeed do the image replacements, but that's only a one time thing and its a separate download from new patches that are released. You get the DXAs from the first post one time, and you won't need to again unless new images are being made (which they are I believe).
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The translated img files also are not needed in order to use the english patch without it crashing, so if the game doesn't start, that wouldn't be why.
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I mean like how do I patch the Demo Version of the game with the 1203 patch?that's my problem+no idea how to patch
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I mean like how do I patch the Demo Version of the game with the 1203 patch?that's my problem+no idea how to patch
You can't get a demo version updated to an update of the full version. Start by getting the original full version(I think DLSite carries it), then patch from there.
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken here.
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I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but how does the LoT 2 translation progress?
Iirc last time I checked a lot of the skills and descriptions were translated, but basically nothing of the story.
Is it still like that?
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I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but how does the LoT 2 translation progress?
Iirc last time I checked a lot of the skills and descriptions were translated, but basically nothing of the story.
Is it still like that?
www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=15439 This would be the thread to go to.
They have bits and pieces of the beginning done but that's really it. It's going a bit faster now than it was before though but still going to be a while.
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...Someone get me the full version link.(Oh ya I was trying to reply to Jq1790.)
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...Someone get me the full version link.(Oh ya I was trying to reply to Jq1790.)
http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852
This is the link for a digital version, finding a physical copy is a bit harder, and more expensive since you have to get it shipped from Japan.
And if you have never bought anything from melonbooks here (http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc) is an image guide I made. You will need a credit card for this, if I recall correctly, they don't take Paypal.
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I was about to ask how to find out the amount of gems/training manuals a character has used, but I think I found it myself (pressing Z twice on the status page).
Also, does the Main Character - Marisa skill actually work? Reimu's skill activates instantly the moment someone dies, and there's even a fancy glowing L shape that appears next to her portrait when it does. But nothing seems to change for Marisa when 5 characters are KO'd?
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I was about to ask how to find out the amount of gems/training manuals a character has used, but I think I found it myself (pressing Z twice on the status page).
Also, does the Main Character - Marisa skill actually work? Reimu's skill activates instantly the moment someone dies, and there's even a fancy glowing L shape that appears next to her portrait when it does. But nothing seems to change for Marisa when 5 characters are KO'd?
Does Marisa gain a buff once she's on the front line? Is Marisa on the front line when 5 people are KOed, to check if she needs to be there when that happens(although, if that ends up being a requirement for the skill, then I would consider it a bad skill, or bugged)?
Also, if you can, can you show a pic this "fancy glowing L shape" that you described Reimu having when her skill activates?
(I apologize if I'm being pushy...)
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Does Marisa gain a buff once she's on the front line? Is Marisa on the front line when 5 people are KOed, to check if she needs to be there when that happens(although, if that ends up being a requirement for the skill, then I would consider it a bad skill, or bugged)?
Also, if you can, can you show a pic this "fancy glowing L shape" that you described Reimu having when her skill activates?
(I apologize if I'm being pushy...)
(http://imgur.com/YekoZWI.jpg)
Reimu L thing
(http://imgur.com/h954KeM.jpg)
6 dead, and this is Marisa's turn. She doesn't get any increase in stats, or any MP regen. So it would seem her skill doesn't work. She was also on the front line everytime a character died.
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http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852
This is the link for a digital version, finding a physical copy is a bit harder, and more expensive since you have to get it shipped from Japan.
And if you have never bought anything from melonbooks here (http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc) is an image guide I made. You will need a credit card for this, if I recall correctly, they don't take Paypal.
They use money?Well shit.I'm still 12 and my parents don't allow me to buy through internet.(Plus I live in Indonesia and 1944 Yen is Expensive as ****.231138 IDR and that already forbids me from buying it.)
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Geez Gambler Flandre... 2 shotting Ama no Murakumo with 100% atk and 36% boost from pharamacologist. She basically takes off 75% of the sword's HP with Starbow break, and no, she isn't even fully invested in fighter gems (she only has 2)
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Atk gems wouldnt help flan much anyway since her atk is sky high. Gems help prople with bad stats more than good since they add a flat amount of said stat.
In fact flan prob benefits from atk gems less than any single character benefits from any gem in the game. Aside from gems someone just doesnt use like atk gems on patchy of mag gems on remi (unless you make patchy a warrior and remi a sorceress or something)
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Yeah, you're prolly right.
Must go Sorceress Remi cause she's supposed to use magic qq
Warrior Patchy for manliness
Anyway though, I would totally give Yuuka fighter gems cause you see how high Yuuka's attack stat is? Warrior Yuuka m8.
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Atk gems wouldnt help flan much anyway since her atk is sky high. Gems help prople with bad stats more than good since they add a flat amount of said stat.
In fact flan prob benefits from atk gems less than any single character benefits from any gem in the game. Aside from gems someone just doesnt use like atk gems on patchy of mag gems on remi (unless you make patchy a warrior and remi a sorceress or something)
If that's true, then gems like that are more suited for characters like Minoriko, Cirno, and Chen, all of whom has low stats and a high leveling rate(bonus points for Chen having the fastest leveling rate in the game, so it would work rather well on her).
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If that's true, then gems like that are more suited for characters like Minoriko, Cirno, and Chen, all of whom has low stats and a high leveling rate(bonus points for Chen having the fastest leveling rate in the game, so it would work rather well on her).
Kinda... Minoriko's magic is high enough as is to heal most characters to full, cirno is more for slow and par than damage (or did that change? I forget). Chen is absolutely a great candidate though. Mind you her def/mnd is so low that even with stones she'll probably be 1shot by many things.
Stats need not be bad to take good advantage though. Nitori for example is a character with great power, but relatively low stats (before shooting sky high due to maintnence and good equipment). This is because her formulas are her strong point in her attack rather than her stats, soo.. Yeah. That and the value of gems kinda double after maintnence since gear multiplies your stats, which have now been affected by the gems.
That all said, gems are nice, and "better" in those cases, but they really dont make or break characters, because even with max use, the base stats on a character, even if low, are going to outperform the gems, unless we're talking about yuugi's mnd or something.
Defensive gems work the sme way but due to the fact that reducing damage by 1000 when you only took 1100 is a much bigger deal than reducing hits by 1000 when you take 10000, having them on someone with good defenses is probably not a less beneficial choice at all.
Speed gems on people like patchy are no brainers imo though. And yeah, atk gem and chen is excellent as well since shes another case of unspectacular stats with great formulas.
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Transcendant subclass + Full buffs + Overheating + Maintenance + Genji Glove equip (which has a chance of double damage) = Nitori dealing 1.5 million on Strengthened Memorized Knowledge. At level 122.
I'm honestly amazed they managed to make her more broken than in LoT1, where she could spam Megawatt Linear Gun later in the game without a care for MP restrictions.
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Personally, I think that Nitori should of been given something else instead of Maintenance. Seriously, that skill is too OP on anyone who isn't Renko(because she's more for support than anything else) and Rinnosuke(because even Maintenance can't help his situation much, given that he has no offensive spells at all).
Also, I checked the wiki recently, and apparently someone has been doing a lot of cleanup, since for one thing "Arm Twisting" is now called "Sheer Force" on said wiki. I'll investigate further into these changes and post what I find(unless someone else reports those changes first)...
Edit: Marisa's nonfunctional skill is from the current version of LoT2(version 1.203), correct?
Also, something is mentioned about Yuuka's Reflowering of Gensokyo being bugged, stating the bug as "Overheals?". Part of me is thinking that the healing portion of that spell is either no longer bound as a set percentage of the front line's Max HP, or that the amount that is healed had increased via spell leveling or something? Is it alright to ask someone to find out about that?
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(http://i.imgur.com/DNLj9Zn.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AWJ9gc9.jpg)
It always heals 10% rounded down and doesn't "overheal" (I guess that is meant the way Eirin overheals) no matter the skilllevel.
The first one was with everyone having taken damage but less than 10%.
It also is unaffected by the Healer passive that increases healing done.
This is on V1.203
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How very strange. I guess that means that it's not bugged at all.
Also, for the record, someone had decided at some point that the "Pharmacologist" subclass would now be renamed as "Herbalist". Curious.
Edit: Quick question about Kaguya's "Dragon's neck Jewel" spell... Does it still ignore the enemies Mind completely? Because if it does, I'll have to write it into the Bugs section of the wiki, and if it doesn't, then I'll just have to clean up Kaguya's file in the Character's section...
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And about Nitori & Maintenance:
She actually took a huge nerf compared to LoT1 since her Super Scope 3D doesn't look nearly as cool as the Linear Megawatt Gun. That thing's basically a toy compared to the old one.
But really: Just don't take her with you if she makes it too easy for you. I took her with me for about 10 minutes on my first run and then dropped her because the gun didn't look good. :V
It's not like this is an online competitive game where you're bound to just using the best of the best.
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Also, I checked the wiki recently, and apparently someone has been doing a lot of cleanup, since for one thing "Arm Twisting" is now called "Sheer Force" on said wiki. I'll investigate further into these changes and post what I find(unless someone else reports those changes first)...
Edit: Marisa's nonfunctional skill is from the current version of LoT2(version 1.203), correct?
I'm the one doing the cleanup. Don't do anything yet, I'm doing this while QCing the translation, so not everything will be kept as they are in the current version.
Yes, Main Character - Marisa is bugged in 1.203
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Since I'm farming gems on Ama no Murakumo now, I've noticed that Kasen's damage had went up a significant amount since I gave her ten atk gems.
Kasen with all points in transcendent, 80% atk with 36% boost and 0 atk gems did about 111-125k ish damage to Ama no Murakumo with -50% def and no terror applied. (with Higekiri's cursed arm) With terror applied it goes up to 125-140kish damage.
When Kasen has 10 atk gems, 80% atk with 36% boost, she did 211k-225kish damage to le sword when it had -50% def, and with terror applied it goes up to 225k-250kish damage.
Ofc Flandre still did more damage (and this was before I put gambler on her). About 305-320kish damage with 80% atk 36% boost from starbow break and -50% def on le sword. Terror doesn't even need to be applied.
Some characters definitely do need gems a lot more then anyone else (like Chen, Chen, Chen, and Cirno). But it definitely isn't a bad idea to put it on someone who can do a very good amount of consistent damage (like Reisen, Kasen, Remilia).
And Byakuren seems like that one character who would want (but maybe not necessarily need) ALL of your gems. 10 of every gem in every stat. Rinnosuke too. (well except atk or mag depending on where you're going).
Also, I have mentioned this before, but has anyone ever put points into "Sudden Impulse" on someone like Marisa? How is it?
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On the matter of "10 of every gem", you most likely aren't going to get much more than 10 gems for mnd/def/spd as far as I can tell. Unless that was just the way my lottery drops went and it's complete chance- but I had more atk/mag gems and lots of mp/tp gems, whilst having far less def/mnd/spd- didn't even break 10 gems on def/mnd until postgame.
Of course, if you farm the final boss for gems, that's a different matter- but I don't imagine a lot of people will bother since you have to view the entire ending each time.
Rinnosuke doesn't need gems more than a normal character because they don't really synergize with High Boost, not like they do with Maintennance. He can be a decent offensive tank though if you give him an offensive subclass, since eventually (especially with manual dumping) you have enough points to max out ATK or MAG high boost along with all the ones you want for tanking with.
That Kasen example is interesting. Ame-No-Murakamo has ridiculous def/mnd so that'd explain the large damage increase, but that's a REALLY large damage increase... it leads me to suspect something else had also occurred, but I'm too lazy to research myself.
I haven't tested Sudden Impulse, but some people seem irked by the concept. The concept itself is that, instead of, say, 10% damage variance (where the attack could do up to 10% more or 10% less damage than the calculation's damage result) her moves would have maybe 30% damage variance (random guess). However, it also says it increases damage, so in some manner the skill probably skews the variance in the positive direction. It's most certainly beneficial, but research into -how- beneficial would be nice, yeah.
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Ah, I actually did make an error. I had made a 2nd save before Kasen had 10 atk gems and did again.
She actually does 150kish damage max with 80% atk and 36% boost with Ama no Murakumo having -50% def and no terror applied. The 111kish damage is what happens when the 36% boost wears off. Sorry I made an error.
And yes, I am farming gems from le sword.
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Well, I'd imagine that characters who have spellcards with high multiplier on their offensive stats would also make great use of those gems. Like, if someone has something that has the same formula as SFN from LoT1, mag gems would certainly help that a lot.
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SFN?
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Supra Funky Noise?
Semi-Freaky Narwal?
Supra Force Nosehair?
Sexy Fox Nurse?
Sorry, I went there.
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Saigzai-wtf you spell it, flawless nirvana... the spell that actually kinda has a better formula than megawatt cannon and/or master spark (kinda sorta.. sorta kinda.. potentially kinda without eating your sp.. kinda).
That said better stats always help better formulas.. but yes, gems help people with better formulas (nitori) and less so stats more than people with better stats and less so formulas (remilia).
Also about nitori being even more op than lot1 or not... I'd have to say IMO she *IS* even more op... her offensive capabilities are...honestly they are both better, worse, and samish at the same time. Basically she could punch thru high defenses in lot1 better...But so could many other characters (and I don't mean ignore). HOWEVER in lot2, she could brute force thru them better than far far more people than could in lot1, though the times where even lot1 had a high defense enemy, she didn't do so quite as effectively (like so if you did megawatt on tenshi 12f in lot1, she'd pretty much do most of its damage.. but if you used 3d cannon in lot2 against amane no whatever, yes it would do more damage than like 98% of every other attack, but it still would be very mitigated unless boss had debuffs).
Provided boss doesn't have much defense at all, I find 3d cannon to be more powerful... megawatt was on par with every other full action bar nuke like ko in 3, eternity slash, kaggy spirit nuke, eiki nuke, etc. But in lot2, if enemy has low defense... 3d cannon plows the socks off everything else, including effing master spark.
also in lot2, nitori has good defense if you gear her with best gear overall instead of attack only. PLUS her evasion is not too bad, and evasion actually matters... so my final verdict, in most cases, nitori is...even more effing op.
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The reason Nitori is OP is because not only is Megawatt generally the strongest option available apart from gambling glass cannons (and cases where defense ignoring is required- where even then it sometimes blows through anyway) but IN A FULL OFFENSE BUILD SHE CAN TANK NEARLY AS WELL AS YOUR ACTUAL TANKS.
It takes a little while to get there, of course, but once you've got the great gear to give Nitori (that boosts ATK along with everything else), she'll have 300~400 affinities and not tooo much less def/mnd than your tanks. And she has maintenance+cooling down to give her insane MP regen to spam skills with even while using overheating... cooling down seems to work even if your HP is not full, for that matter. And she'll also be one of, if not -the- fastest character in your team, to offset her delays.
Yogurt Doll and maintennance+cooling down gives her obscene mp regen (like 24 per focus) and the max MP to not waste it, especially if you dump 10 mp gems on her. The affinites/def-mnd become less crazy near the end of postgame where your tanks have great affinity too and NEED it, but then you get the Quartz Charm and she gets +40% damage dealt -40% damage taken and you laugh as she gradually nukes through the strengthened final boss without leaving frontline.
Even without overleveling much, setting Nitori in the frontline, almost never taking her out, and letting her practically do all of your damage against the boss... is a very legit strategy for a lot of the postgame. Also, Nitori's ATK stat is actually very solid in LoT2 due to maintenance- it's not a matter of her formulas being amazing, although they really seem to have underestimated her potential.
As an aside, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana doesn't have a better formula than Master Spark/Megawatt in LoT1. But Yuyuko's MAG is better than Nitori's ATK and she's much tankier. Too bad a lot of the big postgame bosses have high SPI resist- she's one of the best postgame characters except for how often she's resisted against. Nitori was the best damage dealer in LoT1 in nearly all cases (exceptions being the magical double hibachi and someone's big nuke hitting a boss weakness like Yuugi vs. Yuuka) but she was actually fragile, unlike LoT2.
Nitori seems to be a dev favorite, considering how they uberbuffed Megawatt in Special Disk (well, and previously the unstable version of plus disk) and then this happens in 2.
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Somewhat realted.
Old screenshot from a while back of my first victory against ***WINNER***
. Basically it shows who was really broken awesome.
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This leaves us with a question: Is Nitori powerful enough to use effectively without the Maintenance skill? Because if so, then it's clear that she's OP thanks to Maintenance, and therefore doesn't need it.
Also, I did ask this before, but I was wondering if it would be better if her "Maintenance" skill was replaced with a skill that reduces the rate of which buffs would decay on Nitori, so that her self buff will stack up to maximum all the faster and stay at higher levels for longer. Essentially, said skill would be one of Maribel's skills under a different name(I forget what it's called though).
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Nitori is no good without maintennance. Her ATK stat goes plummeting down without it, and because this is a game with subtractive formulas, it means her damage would become awful, especially against the mounting enemy defense later in the game. Without maintennance she also becomes very fragile.
It's clear she's supposed to use it to make up for her low stats, but the issue is that the farther in the game you get, the more overcompensating it gets.
Since buffing isn't a huge deal later in the game, reducing decay wouldn't make a big difference. Even at permanent-100% it's questionable if she'd be worth using, although she wouldn't be crappy at least... after getting buffed.
The best way to bring Nitori to a reasonable point would probably be nerfing maintenance to a 1.5x equip boost instead of double. She'd probably still be a quite great character, but not overwhelming- both her surprising tanking capability and her overwhelming damage would be brought down to balanced levels, I think.
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How about make it so that maintenance only increases certain stats, or only increases certain stats by a certain amount. Or maybe have maintenance decay or something. Like if say you get 5000 atk from equipping this one item, it instead decays to 4500 atk because of some weird formula or another.
How much affinity resistance she gets is the literally the most notable thing I see on her when I give her items. Not just her attack and other stats.
I thought Rinnosuke had delicious resistances after investing in high affinity boost, but oh my god, Nitori is nuts. Fix her.
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As an aside, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana doesn't have a better formula than Master Spark/Megawatt in LoT1. But Yuyuko's MAG is better than Nitori's ATK and she's much tankier. Too bad a lot of the big postgame bosses have high SPI resist- she's one of the best postgame characters except for how often she's resisted against. Nitori was the best damage dealer in LoT1 in nearly all cases (exceptions being the magical double hibachi and someone's big nuke hitting a boss weakness like Yuugi vs. Yuuka) but she was actually fragile, unlike LoT2.
Nitori seems to be a dev favorite, considering how they uberbuffed Megawatt in Special Disk (well, and previously the unstable version of plus disk) and then this happens in 2.
Of the bosses Yuyuko will face in a normal game, the resistant bosses you run into are Orin, Hill Gigas (lol), Yukari, Rinnosuke SPI/Final form, Cosmic, Master Light Wings (ver1&2), Flame Tyrant (lol), Shikieiki and Serpent of Chaos. Even better elements like FIR only have a few less bosses resisting it. It doesn't hit weakness as often, but it's certainly not that often resisted.
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As an aside, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana doesn't have a better formula than Master Spark/Megawatt in LoT1. But Yuyuko's MAG is better than Nitori's ATK and she's much tankier.
I emphasized the kinda sorta very much...It is better if you consider certain specific angles.
First off, it has a better formula than master spark IF you don't have more than minimal mp for master spark, straight up. And when you do have more than minimal sp, it won't eat up all your sp, so you can cast twice (combine with the fact that yuyu is actually kinda tanky, staying out for a second casting is not unreasonable).
Oh yeah, and it hits every target, both marisa and nitori only hit one.
As for compared to megawatt, it's kinda sorta sorta kinda better because its formula is not too far off against lower defense targets, but its delay is much much better. So again, looking at the angle of staying out to cast twice, it can be considered better (especially if you need to damage more than one target). I'm not arguing that it's normal for nitori to stay out to use megawatt multiple times, or that SFN is in fact a better spell. I'm just saying why I think another user would refer it as an ultimate spell, because it really is in some ways. Provided you keep a character out and the target has no resistance, it probably offers the most "dps" (as unimportant a stat that is where switching is so important I know) over any other spell in the game. Chen's nuke only works well after she buffs herself, which is a moot point if you have access to offensive buffs anyway, and cats walk (if anyone is actually considering it), is just too weak overall to make a significant dent beyond enemy defenses, not to mention it uses alot more delay than listed since overflowed delay just gets wasted.
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Aya is best dps if you're staying out, and iirc she can take a minor hit (although it's true that staying out at all is still quite risky for her), but again this is a postgame strat. Yet in this case the bosses that resist usually aren't as severely resisted as with Yuyuko, and Aya STILL does good damage on those bosses :V Except that I think Serpent of Chaos also resists WND 100% of the time like SPI... Aya can at least turboswitch in a panic, speed buffing is kind of awful that late in apart from PWG.
Anyway, the thing about the list of bosses that resist SPI is that- Yuyuko is crap in the main game. Only SFN is a good attack, and it'll burn up far too much SP even at final boss. You're only going to be able to spam SFN (making her actually good) probably after you've finished most of the initial postgame bosses like v2s and bloody seals, meaning there's only a few significant bosses left... and out of the handful of bosses still left, being complete dead weight on Shikieiki and Serpent of Chaos (one of which is imo the most difficult boss before 30f, considering you can just come back to most of the others later with a bit more levels) is pretty buh- when you need her most, she can't make a scratch. Very few characters just turn into dead weight when one element is resisted- plus at that point in the game there's a decent chance half of your team is non-damaging, so having one be useless is bleh.
Switching her in after Shikieiki is probably the best bet- that or doing it as soon as you have the SP and then switching her with HP-leveled Komachi for Shiki's fight. (By Serpent of Chaos it's kind of impossible to decently temp-switch in anyone, since the lowered out-of-party exp and library levels is too severe, but I guess you could switch in someone with half-decent atk/mag investment as a meh glass cannon. Flandre is flandre no matter how you look at it)
As for Ghaleon, I hadn't really noticed you were emphasizing "but it's not actually better" :V That's a kind of weird way to go about it. The meta in LoT1 kind of makes the points against Marisa and Nitori's formulas vs. SFN not as significant as you might think, though (part of it being you're likely to switch yuyuko out to reset delay anyway- you'll likely have a support with a turn for swapping and nothing better to do a decent amount of the time) and since Yuyuko's speed is rock bottom the 40% delay is actually still a pretty long time... although speed proration helps a lot since you can't use Yuyu well until well into postgame regardless.
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Nitori is no good without maintennance. Her ATK stat goes plummeting down without it, and because this is a game with subtractive formulas, it means her damage would become awful, especially against the mounting enemy defense later in the game. Without maintennance she also becomes very fragile.
It's clear she's supposed to use it to make up for her low stats, but the issue is that the farther in the game you get, the more overcompensating it gets.
Since buffing isn't a huge deal later in the game, reducing decay wouldn't make a big difference. Even at permanent-100% it's questionable if she'd be worth using, although she wouldn't be crappy at least... after getting buffed.
Okay, so buffs are somewhat pointless in late/post game. How about "Sheer Force"? Or "Extra Attack"? Or "Piercing Attack"? Could any of those work as a replacement for Maintenance?
If not, then...
As far as reducing the power of Maintenance, how about this?
Maintenance
Skill Point Cost: 5
Max Level: 6
Stat boosts and effects from equipment are boosted by (SLv * 10)%
Costs more(full cost is 30, same as Rinnosuke's High Boost Skills, which makes sense given the effect of this skill), but can actually be used earlier in the game and increased over time(Max Level makes it 60%, which shouldn't be too much, right?).
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Maintenance is perfect for Nitori both mechanic and flavor-wise, it's just that it's too strong. Nerfing it to a lower percentage would most likely be best. Nitori could still eke out passable durability to take a hit (just not tank everything out), and her attacks would still be strong (without creaming other people), and there'd still be the "you should give her your best gear so she can increase it" thing, it's just she wouldn't be OP from it.
It's probably going too far to make it's cost obscene if it's effectiveness is cut in half, since Nitori would no longer be OP after getting it- she pretty much needs maintenance to not suck in the first place. It's probably fine with it's level/cost left as is. I'm not sure if the game can even properly handle having to round up/down (or just ignore) .5s of a point from 50% (or other) increase on odd numbers, though.
There's implications for Renko in here too, and Renko having super-maintenance would be a passable alternative but kinda weird, but it's not worth going so deep into discussion that the devs will never even know about.
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I like the idea of having the the stats gained from items decay after a certain amount. That way you don't gain the full amount of stacks, but you won't get incredibly strong. Strong, but not OP.
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I don't understand and it would probably be overly complicated to implement just for the sake of Nitori :S
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Maintenance is perfect for Nitori both mechanic and flavor-wise, it's just that it's too strong. Nerfing it to a lower percentage would most likely be best. Nitori could still eke out passable durability to take a hit (just not tank everything out), and her attacks would still be strong (without creaming other people), and there'd still be the "you should give her your best gear so she can increase it" thing, it's just she wouldn't be OP from it.
It's probably going too far to make it's cost obscene if it's effectiveness is cut in half, since Nitori would no longer be OP after getting it- she pretty much needs maintenance to not suck in the first place. It's probably fine with it's level/cost left as is. I'm not sure if the game can even properly handle having to round up/down (or just ignore) .5s of a point from 50% (or other) increase on odd numbers, though.
Bear in mind that paying 5 skill points isn't an obscene cost for activation, and strengthening said skill over time makes it so that Nitori can get stronger as the game goes on and you get better equipment while improving the skill, making them more effective.
Still, if Nitori's abilities are so bad that she needs this sort of skill maxed out quickly in order to be worthwhile from the moment that you get her(I was kinda under the presumption that she would be usable without the skill when you first get her, but would have trouble keeping up later on unless she gets this skill up and running), the cost could be reduced to 3(which would make the cost of maxing it out 18, a mere 3 points higher than what it is now, and unless I'm mistaken, the same cost as one of Hijiri's auto-buffs).
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You seem to have a skewed view of how good activating it early is- if you can only get 10% or 20% it'd hardly be doing much, especially considering that early in the game is when the equipment is quite weak- with both of those considered it'd barely do anything at all. 30 points is also an obscenely huge amount of points- Nitori has a lot of other expensive skills she likes, too...
Nitori's okay early on without it, kinda. She mostly rides off of the 40% cld damage boost on her other skill until you get decent equipment, actually. Super Scope sucks at first. Still, 30 points is something that would hurt even in postgame. But, in any case, I don't really like going off on theoretical tangents for anywhere near this long, so I think I'll stop now :V
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You seem to have a skewed view of how good activating it early is- if you can only get 10% or 20% it'd hardly be doing much, especially considering that early in the game is when the equipment is quite weak- with both of those considered it'd barely do anything at all. 30 points is also an obscenely huge amount of points- Nitori has a lot of other expensive skills she likes, too...
Nitori's okay early on without it, kinda. She mostly rides off of the 40% cld damage boost on her other skill until you get decent equipment, actually. Super Scope sucks at first. Still, 30 points is something that would hurt even in postgame. But, in any case, I don't really like going off on theoretical tangents for anywhere near this long, so I think I'll stop now :V
Agreed.
For a change of pace, lets consider something interesting...
What's the strongest attack spell from each element?
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I don't understand and it would probably be overly complicated to implement just for the sake of Nitori :S
Basically if you normally at first get 2x bonus stats from this powerful, (like say the グラン・はてなの仮面 [The Guran, uh well... mask] which gives 100% in every stat) would instead decay to like say, 150% instead of 200% in every stat because it's such a powerful item. That way you can still get the 2x bonus in weaker items, but as the game goes on, the extra item bonuses decrease because they're getting so powerful now. That's how I'm thinking.
Yeah, it might be too complicated. But there isn't enough science for NITORI!
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So hey, looks like my save file came along with my HD's backup, hooray!
So I had stopped on the temperature puzzle madness of floors 13~15, I just managed to get through it, mostly anyway, I seem to not be able to go through the Yukari rock, though I already did recruit Byakuren.
I also accidentially met the Vacuum Worm FOE, when I noticed how screwed I was, I did the only smart thing that someone that has not saved in a while would do: cheat!
Essentially I just locked the boss's ATB at 0 and pummeled it with Rumia and Youmu (With Iku and Keine keeping them buffed) until it finally died. Would've been much faster if I had managed to do that before it killed Nitori though.
Anyway, about the second rock at 15F, the one that requires me to "subdue all spirits", what do I do to get past it? It's been ages since I played this.
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I also accidentially met the Vacuum Worm FOE, when I noticed how screwed I was, I did the only smart thing that someone that has not saved in a while would do: cheat!
Except LoT2 doesn't do hard game overs anymore, instead just putting you back at Gensokyo with no progress lost :V
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I haven't played this game in a while and I remembered something about the Game Over rules being different for FOEs so I was like "nope not risking it".
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While a flat % reduction on maint would certainly make it more balanced... I think leaving alone, and maybe even buffing it by 20% or something is a more interesting possibility. Drawback being instead of buffing all equipment by 100(or 120% if buffed), it only takes effect on one item slot (the first sub item slot i guess). This would reduce its value by even more than a 50% reduction in theory, but will less so in practice if your 3 items are not equal. I didnt play post much though so im not sure if there is anything like a machine god lucifer (which you can only hope of ever having one of until you ready finish all the post-game).
This also might nerf maint less in te early game too where the player only has 1 or two good/decent items assigned over 4-5 characters.
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While a flat % reduction on maint would certainly make it more balanced... I think leaving alone, and maybe even buffing it by 20% or something is a more interesting possibility. Drawback being instead of buffing all equipment by 100(or 120% if buffed), it only takes effect on one item slot (the first sub item slot i guess). This would reduce its value by even more than a 50% reduction in theory, but will less so in practice if your 3 items are not equal. I didnt play post much though so im not sure if there is anything like a machine god lucifer (which you can only hope of ever having one of until you ready finish all the post-game).
This also might nerf maint less in te early game too where the player only has 1 or two good/decent items assigned over 4-5 characters.
Okay, given that info, how's this, then?
Maintenance
Skill Point Cost: 3
Max Level: 5
Stat boosts and effects from equipment in the first sub item slot are boosted by (SLv * 30)%.
I hope that a maximum level effect boost of 150% to that one slot isn't considered too much...
Also, is there anything in that could be put in the main item slot that would be broken by increasing its effect? Because if not, then there's no reason for said skill to not affect that as well now is there?
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On a separate note, I had thought of how to actually help out Rinnosuke as a character: by giving him this...
Spells:
Force Slash
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Physical
Formula: (100% ATT + 50% MAG) - 50% enemy DEF
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level(Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)
Flash Bomb
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Mystic
Formula: (100% MAG + 50% ATT) - 50% enemy MND
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level(Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)
Reasoning: Rinnosuke possessing some attack spells wouldn't be a bad thing from my point of view, and these Spells, while weak as all get out, are at least marginally better in terms of formula than the Attack command from the start, although the MP cost of said spells make them a poor choice to even consider using in the early game. However, skill point investment does fix the MP cost problem, as well as speed them up considerably, to the point where he can at least use these spells as a means to delay his turn slightly while trying to deal damage. These spell, plus the "First Aid" and "Battle Command" spells that he already has, would make him a more well rounded character.
As a second point, I would also make it so that "First Aid" could cure all ailments other than debuffs when said spell is maxed out(Poison and Terror at the start, Lv2 cures Paralysis, Lv3 cures Silence, Lv4 cures Heavy, Lv5 gives the recipient 1 MP, essentially making it free for Rinnosuke to use on himself and let's him slightly restore another person's MP). The reason for not curing debuffs with "First Aid" is that he has "Battle Command" to deal with that problem.
Skills:
Given that he already fills up all six slots, I would do the following...
Fuse the money making skill and the increased item drop rate skill together, so that it takes up less space.
Fuse the attack debuff skill and the magic debuff skill together, for the same reason.
And now that there are two free slots, I would fill them with "Healthy and Lively", so that he can recover from ailments that do hit him faster, and as strange as this may sound, "Extra Attack", because him having a chance to do any of his moves repeatedly without additional MP or time loss would help him out.
What do you guys think of my little idea for improving the poor guy?
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Rinnosuke?
Poor?
Rinnosuke is already amazing. And about him attacking, if you sub him in an offense subclass he can pull his weight offensively whilst still being super tanky. Although the damage you can achieve from his efficient formation changing is already pretty large if used well.
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@ Kirin no Sora
The idea seems nice, maybe those spells probably would be nice on him.
And if I'm not mistaken, at max level, the post usage gauge would be 100%.
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Rinnosuke?
Poor?
Rinnosuke is already amazing. And about him attacking, if you sub him in an offense subclass he can pull his weight offensively whilst still being super tanky. Although the damage you can achieve from his efficient formation changing is already pretty large if used well.
So, how worth it is it to use Rinnosuke as a dedicated tank?
As in "replacing Meiling" levels of dedicated.
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Better base DEF/MND than Tenshi except with actual HP and higher leveling rate, and auto-atk/mag debuff on his turn plus Efficient Formation Change are both really good passive skills. And then various other high boosts with other cool benefits like high resistances for more tanking, or high speed, etc.
I generally subbed him as a Healer so he could have actual good healing capability, but any of the support subclasses could work. Efficient formation change is a great use of his turns either way.
Meiling isn't anywhere near a master (or even completely ideal) tank in LoT2 anyway. They significantly buffed her attack, if only Gatekeeper Who Likes to Nap's speed boost worked she'd be a pretty cool tanky attacker I think. Well she might still be anyway. Whenever I eventually play through again I'm testing her.
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Who are the top-tier tanks this time around anyway? Rinnosuke, Tenshi and Komachi?
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I hear Komachi is godly, though I haven't tried it. Yukari/Mokou/Rinnosuke/Renko were my main tanks, and Byakuren was pretty much a tank too even if I didn't quite treat her like one. (The extra buffs she has due to perma-100% as strategist helps put her at tank-tier a lil', but her buffing capability is so critically important regardless)
I hear Hina tank is pretty awesome as well, and Parsee with a First Aid Kit can probably tank like a boss because her MND is LoT1-Patch-tier except her def is nice too. Momiji can tank well (her def is crazy and hp is pretty high, with good mnd) but she's probably better suited to bulky attacker, albiet Parsee probably is too against bosses that aren't mostly magical.
High-tier tanking is a lot looser in this game overall. There's lots of characters who can pull it off pretty well, ESPECIALLY if you're using tank Yukari for her def/mnd smoothing passive. Then suddenly everyone with really high def or mnd becomes a full-on tank. Even Rumia is pretty tanky now that way- they buffed her MND and she's mnd-tanky in a full mag build now.
There's a lot of other people but they're mostly used for the sake of what they do while in a defensive build, and not due to sheer survival ability, so that's different.
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Yeah, I kinda noticed Byakuren is sorta stupid, she was taking full zeroes from most of the stuff the 16F boss throwed at her and only occasionally took a tiny bit of damage, Skanda's Leg was also dealing a fair bit of damage despite being level 1.
I'm actually half-inclined to try out a Byakuren-Solo run once I finish this one, :V
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Meiling isn't a pure tank yeah, but a bruiser kind of thing is definitely what she is. Imo, Meiling is a very good at her role. Passive defensive buff, damage reduction 2nd slot, ability to heal and cleric other people while being able to do moderate damage, and if you give her warrior subclass her damage actually becomes quite good. An example would be Meiling doing about 20k ish damage to Ama no Murakumo at 12% atk and Ama no Murakumo has no buffs/debuffs at all. Meanwhile, an 80% atk Kasen with level 3 Higekiri's cursed arm dealing about 60-70k damage to a non buffed sword. For a move that's not super effective, I would say that's a good amount of damage.
I would say Meiling is best 2nd slot tank, in all honesty. I never made Meiling into a pure support (like healer) but from what I heard healer Meiling is very good. Literally never die.
Sometimes when I use Meiling I feel like she's too fast. Her Brilliant Light Gem putting her gauge at 80% really makes her "fast". It messes up the timing on some of my shenanigans.
To compare Rinnosuke to Meiling is kind of weird to me, cause Rinnosuke can be a very tanky attacker while being in the "FIRST" slot. Meanwhile, Meiling's sole purpose is to be a 2nd slot tank. So maybe you could go double tanky attacker Rinnosuke/Meiling in the first two slots, seems like a really cool idea, I should try that. But... I don't wanna get rid of my herbalist Komachi.
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Hina is a godlike tank even against physically based bosses but you have to base your party around her at least a little bit.
From a certain point on (which came rather early) I had her always in the first slot for anything that's not exploring with maybe a few exceptions where her awful spirit resistance forced me to switch her out.
Like Byakuren she's at an effective +100% all the time and she simply ignores enemy debuff resistance. (your partymembers need around 120 resistance to reliably not get crippled by her by the way)
Kanako is a good "4th slot tank" in that with her you can have a group that is able to stay out forever. (My general group for bosses was Hina, Yuuka, Rumia, Kanako in that order and they just survived everything)
Yuuka makes for a nice 2nd slot offtank, though that might just be because I always spend way more money on her than anybody else. :V
Oh, and Ran can still tank pretty well (at least I used her as some sort of tank in LoT1 since she did nothing but buff anyway) especially with the Yakumo Family passives (though you won't ever take advantage of the full bonus for too long since Chen is not that good a stay-in)
Okuu gets pretty robust in a Komachi-way later on since her HP is quite good and she has Fighting Spirit.
Renko can take hits or evade them for days but she (and maintenance) was already talked about somewhere earlier.
In short there's a lot of characters that can do the job of 2nd slot tank on the side without too much effort.
First slot still needs a dedicated tank imho.
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I have not played this game more than once, and I haven't even done post game so I don't hold my opinion as being very experienced, but what I did play with, Momiji did her job as tank very well. I made her a sentinel even though that basically dooms her to doing absolutely nothing but switching and doing 0s. But being able to self buff, and somewhere it said she'd receive targetted attacks more often (which I really needed, though I'm not sure if it helped in the end). The result was that she was very much like Tenshi in LoT1 only with actual hp. She took 0s very often though, and I *RARELY* needed to heal her at all, she pretty much always had near full health just from incidental heals while group healing everyone else at the time. I definately needed to switch her out far less often than I ever did China in Lot1.
But unfortunately, like tenshi in lot1, she did pretty much squat other than tank. At least she provides the entire party with a very noticeable accuracy advantage (people always overlook that passive, but it's a godsend against anything with any meaningful amounts of dodge).
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But unfortunately, like tenshi in lot1, she did pretty much squat other than tank. At least she provides the entire party with a very noticeable accuracy advantage (people always overlook that passive, but it's a godsend against anything with any meaningful amounts of dodge).
The free accuracy passive on Momiji is so good I love it. Also even without too huge of ATK investment she's capable of damaging bosses that I've seen many other characters struggle with simple due to Rabies' Bite low defense mod, so I turned her into a Warrior for some extra element options and she sits out as my nearly-dedicated frontline bruiser. She isn't too hot against magic and her base ailment resistances are a bit low, but this isn't hard to do something about and she's got more than enough HP to take the couple of attacks that actually threaten her.
I'm only at 13F so far (I desperatley need to resume), but Komachi is also a really good tank. Between there being a physical affinity existant that she can pump, and the fact that the damage formula seems altered a bit on top of that, she really does survive a hell of a lot. The fact that her tanking is based on HP and Affinities also is really nice because it means you can save DEF/MND gear for other tanks/tanky supporters.
Other than those two I also depend on Wriggle to maintank, because she does so quite well (especially due to natural near-immunity to ailments); but it's hard to justify her quite as much as many other characters when other characters aren't rendered useless the moment a boss is poison immune (which is far more frequent in LoT2 than 1, sadly)
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I've changed my dedicated tank from Meiling to Komachi, after I did that I feel myself no longer really needing a healer for boss fights since everyone is either stupidly Tanky (Komachi, Byakuren, Iku, Reimu, Minoriko, Keine) or stupidly squishy (Flandre, Gambler Nitori, Youmu, Patchy.) literally the only reason I still run Reimu and Minoriko on my party is because Kasen could actually use the healing. It's actually been kind of stupid especially after Byakuren single-handedly killed the Great Mirror on Floor 20.
I'm currently looking for the last two Stones of Awakening so I can get my Jewel of Greater Awakening and distribute subclasses for everyone, but I already checked every single floor and I've found nothing, what gives? Are these last two post-game only or something?
Because I'm literally one step from the Final Boss and I'd want to be completely prepared.
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You can get the last 2 only after beating the final boss.
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oh god 13F and 14F and probably 15F too oh god switch puzzles with numbers more like obsessive note taking and a small amount of crying
and cirno oneshotting every single encounter
although I barely even have to change my frontline from Momiji/Yuugi/Sakuya/Reisen seriously those four just clean house on everything in here
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If you get terribly stuck or frustrated, there are some maps for those 3 floors on of the last pages of the previous thread.
For some reason a lot of the enemies on those floors are also somewhat weak to nature.
But given that next to every nature attacker either also has access to cold or a terrible fire-weakness it's kinda irrelevant. :V
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I'd really recommend you use Nitori on the 13-15th floor, most of the enemies there are weak to cold and nature. Nitori clears this area like it's nothing. (Though you might get mana starved)
And yeah, on the Japanese wiki there are maps (though, they are in Japanese, but they are fairly intuitive) that can help you if you get stuck, I know I got stuck for quite a while. I think I was stuck on the 13-15 floors the longest. If you need me to get them for you, I can get em.
@ Sacchi Kuroi
Yeah, I don't exactly agree with the idea of Meiling being a dedicated tank. A 2nd slot tanky attacker healer is what I truely believe she is.
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ZXNova:Well he said he could clean house super easy, so it doesn't sound like the randoms are a problem.
Anyway, the puzzle isn't as bad as it might seem. For the most part, the temperature shenanigans are isolated into single areas of each map- as long as you don't game over when you're in the middle of one (which can make you have to redo all the setup needed to get back in there in the first place) it's not so bad. 10~12F in ThLaby1 was a lot more complicated, especially to get everything, since several character events were in there.
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Yeah, it doesn't seem that bad; just kinda more terrifying than actually difficult.
Speaking of difficult, Yuka. Recovering 25k HP on a move isn't exactly fair... I mean, I've got characters who are almost immune to her, but... dealing damage out is the hard part right now. Anybody able to recommend anyone? Cirno's doing a truckload of damage (if I can get her to not get hit), Patchouli and Parsee are near-immune to her damage AND deal lots of damage but can only get that damage out so fast...
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You have to get lucky that she doesn't spam Reflowering.
She's very, very weak to cold, even more so than fire so that's your only proper chance. Or Nitori. But yes, she's not all that easy to beat.
You should also try some specific ailments. She's not immune to everything and there's something you can do to delay her healing.
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Okay yeah, it did just take a lucky series of Not Getting Spammed By The Worst Moves.
I only really survived that through RNG though, not just on Reflowering luck, but actually because Sanae somehow dodged Master Spark @_@
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Wooo, I beat the Final Boss!
It was an annoying fight, to say the very least, after I got his phase 2 to 50% HP he used that move that takes away all my MP and not long after he used the one that takes away all my HP and started spamming World-Shaking Millitary Rule, every time he did that it was essentially Byakuren spamming Magic Milky Way, Kasen spamming Cursed Arm and Komachi spamming Avici to get his buffs to a more manageable level (AKA turn them into debuffs) while Reimu kept them healthy. Keine fell victim to double Great Tree Descended from the Sky and Minoriko fell victim to a DTH proc.
My whole strategy was to get Byakuren into full 100% first, then give everyone in the entire team the full 100% buff, kept Patchy in the back lines with Great Incantation primed for the final form and wailed at the boss with Youmu and Flandre, I would say Nitori but I derped and didn't check the boss's ATB before bringing her out so Gambler Nitori went squish.
Overall a pretty clean victory though, he only got two turns after entering his final form and the first was World-Shaking Military Rule, the second was Start of Heavenly Demise but I had no real problems with it thanks to lolkomachiHP and lolfull100%buffs.
Onto the post-game, I guess.
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Gambler Nitori can really throw out a soulcrushing Super Scope, but imo it's really not worth it (plus the mp cost is similarly soulcrushing). Transcendent Nitori with good equipment is very tanky whilst still dealing huge damage.
Start of Heavenly Demise is also soulcrushing ;_; No one on my party could take the hit so I had to crush through that phase lightning fast with gambler Flan and Nitori before he could use it.
Good luck with postgame. Oof.
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@ Kirin no Sora
The idea seems nice, maybe those spells probably would be nice on him.
And if I'm not mistaken, at max level, the post usage gauge would be 100%.
Force Slash
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Physical
Formula: (100% ATT + 50% MAG) - 50% enemy DEF
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level (Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)
Flash Bomb
Single Target Attack Spell
Element: Mystic
Formula: (100% MAG + 50% ATT) - 50% enemy MND
MP cost: 5
Post gauge use: 50%
Leveling up reduces gauge usage by 1000 and MP cost by 1 per level (Lv2 = 60% and 4 MP, Lv3 = 70% and 3 MP, Lv4 = 80% 2 MP, Lv5 = 90% and 1 MP)
I had listed the scaling for said spells to avoid confusion.
Also, this...
As a second point, I would also make it so that "First Aid" could cure all ailments other than debuffs when said spell is maxed out(Poison and Terror at the start, Lv2 cures Paralysis, Lv3 cures Silence, Lv4 cures Heavy, Lv5 gives the recipient 1 MP, essentially making it free for Rinnosuke to use on himself and let's him slightly restore another person's MP). The reason for not curing debuffs with "First Aid" is that he has "Battle Command" to deal with that problem.
Is making it so that First Aid gives a target 1 MP when it's maxed out too much as far as improving said skill a bad thing?
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When I first fought Yuuka I had forgtten about her and was overleveled by about 15, (and no I didn't level down) then I went and fought Yuuka she destroyed me. I felt that she was too strong for her level. Nitori was able to deal good damage, but calming scent is such a dumb move imo (I really hate calming scent and black hole) Using it over and over, then using reflowering on top of that, that's literally what happened to me the first 8 times. I eventually beat her, she is worth it though.
So before I fight EX bosses, I should probably fight all of the strengthened first right?
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ZXNova:You don't really have a choice. They'll be blocked off by "beat _ boss shadows" rocks. The ex boss levels are vastly higher than most of the Shadow boss levels anyway, though.
The first Deformed Boss is lower level and accessible right away but it also feels like you need to be 30 levels higher than it says. Maybe if you had a setup that could debuff it to hell unlike me.
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Are you talking about the FOE on the 16th floor, or that other EX boss on the same floor? I've seen it. Haven't fought, and am too scared to try it. (Already fought and defeated the FOE)
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Of course, I'm talking about the actual boss! FOEs don't have level requirements (I guess it has a level though) and you don't get anything special for the FOE anyway. Well, there's the achievement for having all 12 FOEs dead at once, and it's item drop isn't so bad... but.
I do mean the one right next to it, though, and not the other boss on that floor.
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Yeah, I meant the boss right next to the FOE. What is that boss anyway?
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The deformed bosses are all Maribel's final boss fight v1 summons from Touhou Labyrinth 1. It's pretty cool. And there's significant incentive to beat them, since then you unlock Renko and Maribel.
But jeez, the first is way harder than the second and third, and they have to be fought in order.
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Is there any information known about the drop of Byakuren's Scroll #4? I happen to have completely cleared out the fire stratum now and have not had it drop >:
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This was answered somewhere in one of the first threads but who would look there. Someone should really put it into the wiki imho. :V
It's in the area of 14F around the stares to 15F. Just warp to 15F and go down, it drops there.
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Maybe it would be a good idea to have Nazrin and Rinnosuke in your party when you're searching for Byakuren's fourth scroll, I'm not sure how the the dropping of Byakuren's scroll works, does it drop after a certain amount of battles, or is it completely random like any other item? Or a mix of both?
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I got it pretty much when I was just traveling through the area, trying to get to the end in two runs and in another one I had to go back and wait for it to drop.
So I'd say it drops like any other item. Kourin and Nazrin should be able to increase the chance.
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The deformed bosses are all Maribel's final boss fight v1 summons from Touhou Labyrinth 1. It's pretty cool. And there's significant incentive to beat them, since then you unlock Renko and Maribel.
But jeez, the first is way harder than the second and third, and they have to be fought in order.
I'm guessing that the only reason that they are in the order that they are in is because the final boss from LoT1 summoned them in that order. Personally, I would put them in reverse order just as a means to maintain proper difficulty. After all, unless I'm mistaken, the third boss's HP regen weakens overtime, right(even though it really shouldn't, for the sake of difficulty)?
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I wouldn't know, I creamed the second and third bosses since I had to get so OP to deal with the first one.
I imagine the dev didn't think the first to be overwhelmingly harder than the next two- he probably intended them to be in ascending difficulty. But, uh, then again, it's hard to imagine that really happening unless there was little playtesting...
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After all, unless I'm mistaken, the third boss's HP regen weakens overtime, right(even though it really shouldn't, for the sake of difficulty)?
You're thinking of the second boss, which starts with ~170,000 HP regen that gradually weakens to ~25,000 iirc. The third Deformed Boss doesn't actually have any HP regen at all.
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speaking of HP regen fuck the Goddess of Fertility
(hurr hurr)
oh well at least I got Byakuren who really is fucking broken as fuck holy shit. I'm also back to being underlevelled, so I'm pretty sure I can put that boss off until later and just come back when most of my damage dealers have a few extra levels backing them. (also why is the 'Goddess of Fertility' a huge tentacle monster--wait I just figured it out)
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You're thinking of the second boss, which starts with ~170,000 HP regen that gradually weakens to ~25,000 iirc. The third Deformed Boss doesn't actually have any HP regen at all.
Well, even more reason for the three bosses to be in reverse order, to be honest.
Heck, the game designers could of made a fight where you would have to fight all three of them at the same time once again, for the sake of the ultimate challenge(by which I mean that it'll seriously hurt like mad)...
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Well, even more reason for the three bosses to be in reverse order, to be honest.
Heck, the game designers could of made a fight where you would have to fight all three of them at the same time once again, for the sake of the ultimate challenge(by which I mean that it'll seriously hurt like mad)...
The expansion pack is on its way eventually~
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I wouldn't say Byakuren is broken. Strong, yes. Broken is Nitori. Her abilities to give buff to people are superb, but as far as damage is concerned, it isn't that high. She's just a really good offensive support buffer thing.
And I just realized Nazrin has a passive that allows her to copy Byakuren's current buffs. Time for Nazrin-Byakuren shenanigans?
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I wouldn't say Byakuren is broken. Strong, yes. Broken is Nitori. Her abilities to give buff to people are superb, but as far as damage is concerned, it isn't that high. She's just a really good offensive support buffer thing.
And I just realized Nazrin has a passive that allows her to copy Byakuren's current buffs. Time for Nazrin-Byakuren shenanigans?
Maybe not completely, but I'm pretty sure Byakuren completely outstrips every other buff-based character in the game except maybe Ran. Once she has all the stat amps she pretty much straight up obsoletes Sanae and all the multi-target buffers (Ran, Keine, Iku) don't exactly sit around keeping themselves at 60%+ on all stats naturally, have far more MP problems, etc. I think the only drawback is that she is hella skill point reliant but you get her so late that you can get the majority of valuable allocations immediately; and to be fair, Nitori's in a similar boat where she doesn't start obsoleting the rest of her class until Maintenance can really start to kick in as well.
Point is I almost want to switch back to Sanae because, much like Nitori, it almost feels too easy to use Byakuren right now. ...But, she helps everyone else do their shit really well and lets everyone else shine so I don't mind it as much.
For the record, my party approaching the end of the game: Momiji, Yuugi, Sakuya, Reisen, Komachi, Wriggle, Reimu, Byakuren, Cirno, Parsee, Patchouli, Yuka. When I stream the game tonight from work I'm going to be fighting Eiki (my last recruitment; I had to farm for achievements) and then exploring the 19th floor. ADVENTURE HO~
Oh and yeah Nazrin just sorta passively borrowing all Byakuren's buffs probably makes her super silly if not for the fact I doubt Byakuren has any problem with having the turns to manually buff Nazrin anyway, but hell yeah tiny tiny buffed-as-hell commander.
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For the record, my party approaching the end of the game: Momiji, Yuugi, Sakuya, Reisen, Komachi, Wriggle, Reimu, Byakuren, Cirno, Parsee, Patchouli, Yuka. When I stream the game tonight from work I'm going to be fighting Eiki (my last recruitment; I had to farm for achievements) and then exploring the 19th floor. ADVENTURE HO~
Oh and yeah Nazrin just sorta passively borrowing all Byakuren's buffs probably makes her super silly if not for the fact I doubt Byakuren has any problem with having the turns to manually buff Nazrin anyway, but hell yeah tiny tiny buffed-as-hell commander.
Stream? Mind telling me what time and where you're streaming? I like watching others play Labyrinth for some reason.
I'd imagine Nazrin's passive buff borrowing can be crazy with Rinnosuke's Efficient Formation Change. You don't need to risk Nazrin dying when you're trying to buff her, since she'd come to the frontline in top form.
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Stream? Mind telling me what time and where you're streaming? I like watching others play Labyrinth for some reason.
I'd imagine Nazrin's passive buff borrowing can be crazy with Rinnosuke's Efficient Formation Change. You don't need to risk Nazrin dying when you're trying to buff her, since she'd come to the frontline in top form.
True; there's inevitably aspects I'm too tired to consider.
I'll be streaming from work in about... twelve hours from now. I'll make a point to stop by and post when the time comes (or just follow me on twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/garlylewilds); hell there should be a recording of the game from last night there too and I think the night before if you're hella bored. Last night was basically both bosses and the FOE in the sixth stratum so there's some interesting parts at least).
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Yeah, Byakuren kind of does (ok not kind of) outclasses pretty much every buffer. I like to do Sanae+ Bykauren, Sanae speeds up Byakuren's buffing process, then Byakuren is at 100%. Kind of dumb. Tweaking her buffing abilities would be a good idea. Though, I would have to say as far as buffing a specific stat, no one buffs speed better than Aya.
Maybe make Byakuren only give half of her current buffs at level 1 or something. Then as you level up this skill, she can buff more of her current buffs. Seeing as how skillpoint reliant she is, it seems like a nice way to balance things out.
12 hours from now? That's at midnight for me!
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True; there's inevitably aspects I'm too tired to consider.
I'll be streaming from work in about... twelve hours from now. I'll make a point to stop by and post when the time comes (or just follow me on twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/garlylewilds); hell there should be a recording of the game from last night there too and I think the night before if you're hella bored. Last night was basically both bosses and the FOE in the sixth stratum so there's some interesting parts at least).
Watching your 16F Boss fight was interesting. I was surprised you didn't buff everyone up first before starting your assault on it.
Edit: I see you've gotten through the bs that is the 18F boss fight. Before you brought Nitori into the fight, I still had my doubts on just how broken everyone was claiming Nitori to be (since I still haven't used her myself) but after seeing her output that kind of damage with modest equipment, that's just stupid. And considering its Hardmode, I know that she also had modest library levels...
I'm hoping you get to 20F tonight. You got through 1.5 floors with other obligations in the way, so its possible.
Yeah, Byakuren kind of does (ok not kind of) outclasses pretty much every buffer. I like to do Sanae+ Bykauren, Sanae speeds up Byakuren's buffing process, then Byakuren is at 100%. Kind of dumb. Tweaking her buffing abilities would be a good idea. Though, I would have to say as far as buffing a specific stat, no one buffs speed better than Aya.
Maybe make Byakuren only give half of her current buffs at level 1 or something. Then as you level up this skill, she can buff more of her current buffs. Seeing as how skillpoint reliant she is, it seems like a nice way to balance things out.
12 hours from now? That's at midnight for me!
We happen to be in the same timezone then. Midnight works great for me however, as my internet is the fastest when I'm the only one in the house using it.
Edit: I like Renko + Byakuren more. Then you throw in Aya into the mix and its just silly. Byakuren basically starts the fight with 100% buffs, ready to share that buff with the rest of your party.
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Maybe make Byakuren only give half of her current buffs at level 1 or something. Then as you level up this skill, she can buff more of her current buffs. Seeing as how skillpoint reliant she is, it seems like a nice way to balance things out.
That just makes it take slightly longer to get Byakuren up to speed, and make it more tempting to dump all your training manuals on her to get there faster. It doesn't really change much about the situation.
Also, about Nazrin... she's really meh apart from use as a farming character, the fact that her damage boost passive works on most late bosses and that she can piggyback Byakuren is all that keeps her from total obscurity.
But, speeding up grinds can be useful, so. Issue is probably just that 20f depths grinding is probably faster with Nitori or Flan roflstomping the place. A whooole lot of those enemies are weak to PHYS, for super scope or gambler flan normal attacking...
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It's really easy to get Nazrin's stats/damageoutput to a level that enables her to one-shot most things on that floor.
In the beginning you have to have someone else soften some of the enemies up first though.
I strongly believe that the devs intended her to be used for grinding for money in that spot, given that most enemies are in the "Divine" category and also weak to Gold Rush.
Give her Gambler, dump some money into her magic (getting just that up to 300 isn't all that expensive and pays for itself very quickly) stat and all is well.
After a while you can even take off gambler and equip her to do 30+ battle streaks.
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I'm hoping you get to 20F tonight. You got through 1.5 floors with other obligations in the way, so its possible.We happen to be in the same timezone then. Midnight works great for me however, as my internet is the fastest when I'm the only one in the house using it.
Yeah, I really didn't want to bring out Nitori, but it was like... "Yeah, really, I just need an assload of damage and unfortunately my normal physical attackers aren't quite going to cut it". ...Also I'm impatient even with regenerating bosses oops. Bringing out Nitori was a "I don't really want to do this, but hell with it this fight's enough of a pain in the ass already". She still did less damage than Parsee did though ahaha
The level cap from Hard Mode doesn't seem to have caused too many problems, to be honest; at most it made the 12F bosses kind of irritating. I don't think I've hit the library cap on stats since like 3F either, even though I've totally got the money to burn now.
Anyway, I'll look forward to seeing you there!
EDIT: All done! Next time I stream will be the Magatama, Mirror, and final boss, so... yeah 8D
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Decided to mess around with a few Death Shenanigans. Using Cheat Engine to power up Komachi and Reisen, then using it again to lower their damage stats so they can't deal damage, and some other things, I was able to get a Death Proc on the 7F and 8F FOEs. I think the 2F FOE also got a Death Proc as well, but it took a little while longer. 3F on the other hand....I just can't get a proc off no matter how much I try. Considering the 7F and 8F FOEs have a Star resistances to Death and got inflicted by it easily, I'm going to assume Sakuya will get the proc much faster when I try the strat on her.
I also tried to see if I could figure out how much Reisen's Intense Vertigo skill lowered the resistances, but I had no luck trying to find it.
So I altered Komachi's Attack and Magic stats to 0...and got hilarious results. I was actually HEALING the enemies with every attack. Twas funny it was.
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Yeah, I really didn't want to bring out Nitori, but it was like... "Yeah, really, I just need an assload of damage and unfortunately my normal physical attackers aren't quite going to cut it". ...Also I'm impatient even with regenerating bosses oops. Bringing out Nitori was a "I don't really want to do this, but hell with it this fight's enough of a pain in the ass already". She still did less damage than Parsee did though ahaha
The level cap from Hard Mode doesn't seem to have caused too many problems, to be honest; at most it made the 12F bosses kind of irritating. I don't think I've hit the library cap on stats since like 3F either, even though I've totally got the money to burn now.
Anyway, I'll look forward to seeing you there!
EDIT: All done! Next time I stream will be the Magatama, Mirror, and final boss, so... yeah 8D
So I fell asleep like an hour before you were supposed to start streaming and just now woke up.... Oh well, I can at least still watch the video. Hopefully, I'll actually be able to watch it live for the final floors...
Edit: Also, you might want to update to the latest version of the english patch, I just realized.
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Edit: Also, you might want to update to the latest version of the english patch, I just realized.
but I like the current patch this patch is good and stable
I'll probably update after the final boss though. SPEAKING OF WHICH turns out some asshole cut some of the fibers used by our provider recently and while the connection from work is actually fine my home connection is currently sort of crap so until that gets resolved I won't be able to stream the finale.
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Sorry for the tangent, but I ran into something strange in LoT1, and I'm wondering if anybody knows something about this.
I recently noticed that two characters with differing speeds (7300 vs 8500) were reaching their first turns at the same time. The faster one got their turn first, but the slower one still had a blue bar (ready to act). So, thinking that the speed gap wasn't large enough, I decided to experiment and sell all my acquired drops, for a whopping total of 240m skill points. I dumped it ALL into the speed stat of the faster character, until the speed difference became 7300 vs ~12000. I then went into battle, and was shocked to see the same thing was happening - a character with 7300 speed was reaching their first turn just as fast as a character with ~12000 speed.
Have I hit some sort of built-in speed cap? Is the game trying to tell me to stop grinding? :ohdear:
Thanks for any info,
Veto
Edit: I moved around some equipment and managed to get the faster character's speed to ~13000, which suddenly allowed her to act WAY before the other character. I think I understand what was going on.. at such high speeds, there aren't many animation frames before the bar fills. Both characters are so fast, the same number of animation frames fills their speed meter, even with a decent gap. So in order for one to act before the other, the speed gap has to become even greater (even percentage-wise) than with lower speed values.
Anyway, OCD analyzation over, OCD grinding continuing.
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Been a while since I played LoT1, what level are you to have stats that high? Just curious. Anyway, yeah; they're hitting 10000 on the same tick, even if one is way over 10000. It's easier to tell in LoT2 where they actually list how high the ATB number is. In really late game, there ends up being thresholds where you don't gain effective speed for awhile and then suddenly *bam* you're a significant fraction faster. It probably has silly effects on the characters with low delay attacks like Chen, and Aya (who, due to actually being at really high speed buff a lot due to PWG, has stupid high spd even with her not-chen-tier delay)
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Been a while since I played LoT1, what level are you to have stats that high? Just curious. Anyway, yeah; they're hitting 10000 on the same tick, even if one is way over 10000. It's easier to tell in LoT2 where they actually list how high the ATB number is. In really late game, there ends up being thresholds where you don't gain effective speed for awhile and then suddenly *bam* you're a significant fraction faster. It probably has silly effects on the characters with low delay attacks like Chen, and Aya (who, due to actually being at really high speed buff a lot due to PWG, has stupid high spd even with her not-chen-tier delay)
My character levels are floating in the 530-690 range, though I dump pretty much all my level up points into speed. I've already beaten "WINNER" a couple of times, but he's still never used that time stop attack on me. I want to beat him when he uses that, just to say that I have. Plus, grinding in that game is fun, what can I say. I suppose I'm taking out my excitement for LoT2's translation on the original title.
Huh, yeah, good point on the low delay attacks. I wonder how much speed it would take to single-tick to above 10000 ATB, even from empty? That'd kill the benefit of low delay skills. Of course, getting that kind of speed would kill what's left of my social life anyway, so maybe it works out.
Veto
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Speed prorates pretty hard, so it'd take an eternity to get that far. You'd just plain have to hack.
I was interested in beating up WINNER a lot at first, but after a couple fights I realized he was a really long fight that just isn't that interesting until he's pulling out the killer moves. But hey, more power to you. I remember TranceHime beat him 100 times, which was insane, but unfortunately he didn't still have the save file for others to look at by the time I asked.
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..100 times?
I'm so weak. :(
Definitely the highest I've heard of.. quite certain I won't get there. Either my sanity will run out, or the LoT2 translation will finish.
Veto
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I don't think anyone else could manage that, unless maybe they paced themselves to a fight a week or something. :V Even then there'd be the infinite grinding though, so...
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I know its mostly about LoT2 these days, but would anyone be interested in a video series (and stream?) of a playthrough of LoT with a completely randomly generated party?
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Sorry for the tangent, but I ran into something strange in LoT1, and I'm wondering if anybody knows something about this.
I recently noticed that two characters with differing speeds (7300 vs 8500) were reaching their first turns at the same time. The faster one got their turn first, but the slower one still had a blue bar (ready to act). So, thinking that the speed gap wasn't large enough, I decided to experiment and sell all my acquired drops, for a whopping total of 240m skill points. I dumped it ALL into the speed stat of the faster character, until the speed difference became 7300 vs ~12000. I then went into battle, and was shocked to see the same thing was happening - a character with 7300 speed was reaching their first turn just as fast as a character with ~12000 speed.
Have I hit some sort of built-in speed cap? Is the game trying to tell me to stop grinding? :ohdear:
Thanks for any info,
Veto
Edit: I moved around some equipment and managed to get the faster character's speed to ~13000, which suddenly allowed her to act WAY before the other character. I think I understand what was going on.. at such high speeds, there aren't many animation frames before the bar fills. Both characters are so fast, the same number of animation frames fills their speed meter, even with a decent gap. So in order for one to act before the other, the speed gap has to become even greater (even percentage-wise) than with lower speed values.
Anyway, OCD analyzation over, OCD grinding continuing.
See: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Gameplay
Basically, it's due to how the speed stat works. You get hugely diminishing returns at higher levels.
First, there's game-speed vs database-speed. "Database speed" is what is listed in the translated encyclopedia thing; an enemy with 500 speed is actually as fast as one of your characters with 1100 speed. Up until 200 speed, every point in speed means one ATB point per tick. After 200, you need 2 points for one additional ATB point, after 300 you need 3, etc. 500 db speed is 1100 game speed, and 501 db speed is 1111 game speed (AFAIK. It's been a while, but that should be right).
Secondly, getting more than 10,000 ATB doesn't carry over. With 101 speed it will still take 100 ticks to go from 0 to 100%, and your final ATB will be 10100. All this means is that that character will go before anyone with just 10,000 ATB. That's what the chart shows - the breakpoints where an increase in speed is actually beneficial. At 7300 (1250 db speed), you go from 0->100% in 8 ticks. To get down to 7 ticks, you need 9606 speed (1429 db). Anything between that is just wasted.
Now, the chart isn't strictly accurate. It's just a general guideline, and only accounts for 0% and 50% gauge. What really matters is the post-use gauge for the skills you use. Chen's Flight of Idaten has 85% post use, so you can spam that every single tick once you hit 1500 db speed, which is around 10,000 game speed. But the basic principle still holds - you need absolutely massive increases in speed to notice any difference.
Incidentally, this means that if you're planning on going for the endgame, you should never put level up bonuses into speed. They'll be useless by the time you hit 30F. Skill points are fine.
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In LoT1, Speed is a pretty useless place to put levelup bonuses for everyone except -maybe- Cirno or Renko, anyway. Your support characters generally want to stay alive better, and everyone else wants to deal damage, where subtraction formula means atk/mag stat is god; plus only stay-in attackers care about their speed much, and those guys need all the help they can get to either live or not deal worthless amounts of damage. (Cirno's a guaranteed dropped-before-postgame character anyway since all her stats suck and you get other people who can paralyze/debuff speed; and with Renko you're better off just giving her SPD equips for randoms if you want her superfast to Galaxy Stop first)
Of course, that can all be solved by leveling up more, but.
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Wow, I wonder how I missed that on the wiki that I frequent so often. Very good data, thanks for that link.
I concur that the rate at which you move through that table diminishes heavily with higher speed, but I'd also argue that traversing each row in the table becomes significantly more potent with each row. So while (from the table) 9606 speed and 13172 speed only are separated by a single row, that's still a 16.6% increase (7 ticks / 6 ticks) difference in effective speed.
Upon doing a little more math, it does still appear to diminish a bit, despite the point I bring up. Not by as much as the author of that table makes it seem though.
Sadly, I concur that my level up points into speed aren't as useful as other stats. Boo.. oh well, I suppose that's what new game+ is for, right?
Veto
Edit: Does the ATB still reset to a certain value in LoT2? That is, if you tick way over 10,000 ATB, are you compensated for it in subsequent turns? Or does it work just like LoT1?
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ATB bar is same as LoT1, except that you actually see the number. Stats don't scale quite as crazily in that game either, though. Probably kinda because the end of the current content likely won't see you going over lv200 unless your name is Chen, admittedly, and Plus Disk is coming out not terribly far away....
It'd be nice if the page on the wiki just listed how much you got per tick instead of silly "how much to reach 100 from x", but it's mostly only relevant at Winner time anyway. And for that matter... since it's on the "Talk" page, almost no one will ever see it.
e:Oh, nevermind, database speed IS how much you get per tick. Right.
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Going Live to hopefully finish LoT2 right now (http://www.twitch.tv/garlylewilds)
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I've just started a run with characters that are bosses of stages 1 to 3 only.
GOD! Youmu was a piece of cake with Rumia and Kogasa, Youmu, you must felt embarassed by being defeated by weaklings like them.
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Well Rumia and Kogasa are clearly ghost types, so it's super effective! Wait wrong game.
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Well Rumia and Kogasa are clearly ghost types, so it's super effective! Wait wrong game.
Actually, they're Dark type in terms of attack, striking and blindsiding poor Youmu with scaring her senseless, because fear is Youmu's weakness and Dark type attack are good at that(the fact that she's easily struck by the Terror status ailment does not help matters for her). The phrase "afraid of the dark" is not a bad metaphor for how those two can simply make her curl up into a ball and weep.
...wow, I actually feel bad for Youmu now.
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Actually, I attacked with Dark and Mystic attack, Meiling also helped with Brilliant Light Gem, which is Spirit.
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Actually, they're Dark type in terms of attack, striking and blindsiding poor Youmu with scaring her senseless, because fear is Youmu's weakness and Dark type attack are good at that(the fact that she's easily struck by the Terror status ailment does not help matters for her). The phrase "afraid of the dark" is not a bad metaphor for how those two can simply make her curl up into a ball and weep.
...wow, I actually feel bad for Youmu now.
Well Ghosts are known for scaring people as well. Well you could just say Rumia is a dark type and Kogasa a ghost type (Dat Karakasa yo). Both are super effective to ghost so, stuff.
If you go by TPP 1.8 terms, Rumia and Kogasa just threw shadow balls are her. (Cause ghost is immune to dark and vice versa in 1.8 )
Anyway, back to Labyrinth of Touhou 1 and 2.
I've been kind of neglecting THL2, gotta get back into it.
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Touhou Laby1, I seem to have a slight issue with the Cheat Engine tables linked. All the gear addresses are giving ?? as the value. My table also has a no description address for Star of Elendil that actually gives a proper value. How would I go about getting a proper address list based on that one item? If possible that is >.>
The ?? address for Star of Elendil comes up as 00121C54, while the working one comes up as 00181C1C, if that helps at all >.>
I've farmed 20F enough to get almost all of the 5% drops, I'm only missing Scourge... Heck, I've gotten some of the drops 3 or 4 times, and they are 1.5% chance after the first!
I get if this is supposed to ensure being ready for Plus Disk content, due to the grinding to get the items so you can have all 5 Stars... but my lowest level character, Rinnosuke
is 198, and mostly everyone else is around 220, I think I can handle what is coming :P
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I get if this is supposed to ensure being ready for Plus Disk content, due to the grinding to get the items so you can have all 5 Stars... but my lowest level character, Rinnosuke
is 198, and mostly everyone else is around 220, I think I can handle what is coming :P
I don't know... you seem to just barely be scratching the recommended levels for the Plus Disk stuff. Even then, I'm pretty sure the recommended levels on the wiki are bare minimum levels for those fights.
I finally made more progress with my synergy run (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2ymjum7Prc) (god knows how long its been stalled since 16F fight).
I'm actually ready to fight the final boss but I haven't uploaded the videos for the last few major fights yet.
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The weaklings team defeated Kaguya, the Chrysomallos and the Golem.
When I decided to make Kogasa a tank, it worked well, since every attack the Chrysomallos landed on her it did 0 or 1 point of damage.
Kaguya... Parsee...
The golem was tough, (like if it wasn't before...) how lucky I am that Wriggle poisoned it, Minoriko did 150+ damage, Rumia wasn't hit, and Hina could debuff that freaking thing (she still died though).
EDIT: There goes Alaya Vijnana (or whatever you call it), Meiling, Cirno, Kogasa and Parsee did a great team here, Meiling spamming Moutain Breaker, Cirno and Kogasa using their cold spells, and Kogasa and Parsee inflicting terror, you're doomed.
EDIT2: Komachi, not so hard, many damage dealers, Yuugi, Wriggle, Minoriko (1420!), Alice, Chen, Mystia, Hina (surprisingly for me) and Kogasa. All of them did a great job to easily finish Komachi. But, she owned Chen, Alice, Wriggle and Mystia in the way...
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So I altered Komachi's Attack and Magic stats to 0...and got hilarious results. I was actually HEALING the enemies with every attack. Twas funny it was.
What.
Sigh... *wonders why game devs can't make it so that if the damage dealt is below zero, then it should be made to register as zero damage...*
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Sigh... *wonders why game devs can't make it so that if the damage dealt is below zero, then it should be made to register as zero damage...*
It doesn't really matter- without hacking the game, you're never going to have an atk/mag stat of 0, and under other circumstances (aka the enemy's def/mnd is just high) your zero damage will actually be 0 damage and not a heal.
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I don't know what I'm doing wrong but whatever it is... I was doing fine on two phases on the final boss until the phase with the statues and that's when things went to high hell on wheels I need help deciding what party to run with.
Here was my last party to that I fought with to tell what was going on:
Damage Dealers:
Flandre / Gambler
Nitori / Transcendent
Suika
Buffers:
Aya/Diva
Sanae/ Enchanter (Healing and buffing)
Reimu (She also was my healer)
Byakuren was my extra tank and buffer.
Tanks:
Tenshi
Meiling
Komachi
I had Patchouli in my party which I feel was a mistake and think I should of took Reisen for the debuffs, but that was a mistake does anyone know what I could do to at least survive the statue phase. Most of my party is 109 ~ 120. I was doing well I just need to know do I need more damage dealers or do I need to make use of a Hexer and someone that can nuke the statues and kill the last boss.
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I don't know what I'm doing wrong but whatever it is... I was doing fine on two phases on the final boss until the phase with the statues and that's when things went to high hell on wheels I need help deciding what party to run with.
Here was my last party to that I fought with to tell what was going on:
Damage Dealers:
Flandre / Gambler
Nitori / Transcendent
Suika
Buffers:
Aya/Diva
Sanae/ Enchanter (Healing and buffing)
Reimu (She also was my healer)
Byakuren was my extra tank and buffer.
Tanks:
Tenshi
Meiling
Komachi
I had Patchouli in my party which I feel was a mistake and think I should of took Reisen for the debuffs, but that was a mistake does anyone know what I could do to at least survive the statue phase. Most of my party is 109 ~ 120. I was doing well I just need to know do I need more damage dealers or do I need to make use of a Hexer and someone that can nuke the statues and kill the last boss.
Taking Reisen for the debuffs is great. I don't know how that turned out to be a mistake.
You either need to finish off the boss right before he switches to that phase or have a strong multi-target nuker take out the statues.
It shouldn't be hard for a Gambler Flandre to pull off the former, given The huge delay the boss has after he puts everyone to 1 hp
and the fact that you have Aya.
Patchouli should be able to pull off the latter, for the same reasons Flandre is able to pull off the former.
In all honesty, it seems like your party composition is sound, so you just needed to know how to handle that phase. I'd like to know what subclasses you've given to the rest of the members, but what you've told me is already a pretty good set up in my opinion.
Oh, and if you're going to use Reisen for debuffing, there is no reason not to spec her entirely for Speed or spec her entirely defensively. I'm going to go with Speed for the end of my synergy run if it turns out that going glass cannon Reisen doesn't work out for me.
Last few fights before the final boss in my synergy run:
20F Fight 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPwFaYrLZfg)
20F Fight 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_L8QjYRdK8)
Going to record the last boss fight now (or at least attempt the fight before reworking my set up) and hopefully be able to upload it by tomorrow.
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Taking Reisen for the debuffs is great. I don't know how that turned out to be a mistake.
You either need to finish off the boss right before he switches to that phase or have a strong multi-target nuker take out the statues.
It shouldn't be hard for a Gambler Flandre to pull off the former, given The huge delay the boss has after he puts everyone to 1 hp
and the fact that you have Aya.
Patchouli should be able to pull off the latter, for the same reasons Flandre is able to pull off the former.
In all honesty, it seems like your party composition is sound, so you just needed to know how to handle that phase. I'd like to know what subclasses you've given to the rest of the members, but what you've told me is already a pretty good set up in my opinion.
My Patchouli couldn't put a dent in the boss which was why I was thinking it was mistake to bring her into the fight, but if I have to I will switch out someone for Reisen and start dropping debuffs and then hope that it'll be enough for Flandre, Suika, or Nitori to one shot him at least dent him before he gets the statues out.
So, I'll assume it wasn't my setup from what you're telling me it was just my luck which makes me want to try again tomorrow to see if it was flaw on my part. Other than that I'm glad to at least lurk in this thread to understand how to handle the last boss, all I gotta say is though I was pretty lucky during that fight unlike Labyrinth of Touhou 1's last boss fight. I'm hoping this one will be more easier on me, because I'm quite interested in fighting the postgame bosses.
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The statue phase is the final test of the fight, and it's what wiped me the first time I nearly had it on stream.
I'm not sure how your Patchouli wasn't doing damage, unless you weren't able to maintain DEF/MND debuffs (and even then if you can't do that most characters will be stopped cold on this fight). She's still incredibly valuable for Royal Flare when the statues show up though. Either way, if you're relying on only single-target damage dealers you'll need to burn down the boss before it summons the statues.
Also yes, bring Reisen. Reisen is amazing.
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Ok, it's decided then I'll bring Reisen I just need to decide who to have sit out so I don't panic over putting a dent in my strategy and party. That reminds me... is the Art of Oni Binding skill bug for Suika fixed yet?
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I just cleared out all three Deformed Bosses (admittedly with Diva Aya + Hexer Reisen breaking all of them) to recruit Renko and Maribel. Something that's been confusing me is the locations of the last two Stones of Awakening. I only have ten and I'm fairly certain I got two from post-game, so did I miss some in the main areas? Also, what does the Jewel of Greater Awakening do?
Also, I never actually found the stairs to 21F. Where are they located?
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I just cleared out all three Deformed Bosses (admittedly with Diva Aya + Hexer Reisen breaking all of them) to recruit Renko and Maribel. Something that's been confusing me is the locations of the last two Stones of Awakening. I only have ten and I'm fairly certain I got two from post-game, so did I miss some in the main areas? Also, what does the Jewel of Greater Awakening do?
Also, I never actually found the stairs to 21F. Where are they located?
Ok, the first ten SoAs are found in main game, last two are post game. Their locations, I don't know. The Jewel of Awakening is basically the infinite SoA. Can give subclasses to every person now.
The stairs to the 21th floor are located right behind the Final Boss on the 20th floor.
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After a few hours of beating the final boss and the boss rush... I believe some more grinding is required, any recommendations and tips of what level to be for the enhanced bosses and how to go about it?
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If you're smashing all the applicable ones with Reisen debuffs then the recommended levels are probably okay. I don't know how many you can keep shut down with debuffs, but several of them seem balanced with debuffing them to hell in mind even if they're kinda resistant. Some others seemed balanced with defense ignoring in mind as well >_>;
How to go about it? Honestly, your easiest bet is to gear Nitori up with the best (at least one Title of Grand Master Breaker, and Yogurt Doll main equip for hilarious mp, Cooling Down passive seems to work even at not-full-hp) and have her be your MVP with god-byakuren!strategist tankbuffing the party and whoever else tanking. But with debuffs, other people should actually be able to do damage too. Especially Flan. (Even Nitori/Flan will need def debuffs on the boss sometimes, though. You can't just grind past it. Seriously, I went 50 levels over recommend in order to pull that off on just the refights, which is enough to finish all of postgame.)
At this point in the game Nitori can tank nearly as well as actual tanks while being built for ATK and outdamaging everyone on bosses that don't have sky-high def. Not that your other damage dealers are obsolete... but Nitori kinda raises the bar where they have to either be superstrong gamblers, or capable of tanking bosses along with dealing damage (which tends to require def/mnd debuffs or ignoring)
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In other words, Nitori is broken.
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It sounds like characters in LoT2 are much less balanced than characters in LoT1.
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It sounds like characters in LoT2 are much less balanced than characters in LoT1.
I don't think that. There's actually a lot of really good characters in LoT2, and far fewer that seem absolutely trash. Both games have characters who are higher end at what they do and lower end, but there's also enough room for adaptation in LoT2 via skills, subclassing, etc. that you can get some interesting results (Cirno is, I shit you not, one of my party's dedicated nukers for instance)
Nitori's just kind of an exception, and to be fair, she was exceptional in LoT1 as well - she's just even more of an exception in LoT2.
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Instead of there being characters that are just bad to the point you'd really only take them with you out of sympathy they turned it around and made some characters (one character) so good you'd only take her with you out of antipathy. (Or because Super Scope 3D just looks and sounds silly and will never be anywhere near as awesome as the Linear Megawatt Gun ever was and are of the opinion that whoever wants buffs better gets them herself or is happy with Sanae's.)
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jesus crust
the postgame floors are freaking massive
Also I think I understand now why so many bosses were resistant to Poison - it seems to function differently in this game than LoT1. I'm pretty sure I ate about 80% of the Shadow Kraken's HP via Wriggle landing poisons.
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The postgame floors are kinda snore-tier huge x_x
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It sounds like characters in LoT2 are much less balanced than characters in LoT1.
Not that LoT2 characters are imbalanced, rather, there is this 1 (and maybe 2) characters that are pretty broken. Everyone else is honestly really good, but these two (I'm refering to Nitori and Byakuren) are just... outrageous. Nitori is an outrageous damager bruiser tank thing, and Byakuren is an outrageous offensive support tank buffer thing. Can you do fine without them? Of course. Will you rekt things if you take them? Yes.
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The postgame floors are kinda snore-tier huge x_x
I kinda like it. better than nothing but grinding
Four shadows down, almost all of the 'downwards' Extra floors successfully searched. Shredding is an exceptionally silly boss. So was the Poison Wasp actually - a frontline of Wriggle, [variable], Byakuren, Patchouli couldn't be killed. All I had to do was swap in Reimu once in a while to heal Wriggle back up (I should really just make Wriggle a Healer) and the boss was never able to damage Patchouli, never did more than Byakuren could just regen off, and could only tap Wriggle's HP lightly but sure not poison her.
Also poison eats lategame bosses alive in LoT2 dear lord
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Also poison eats lategame bosses alive in LoT2 dear lord
I can vouch for that one, I gave Komachi the item that gives attacks poison and things went lol funny mode. Also... the Enhanced 3 Orbs are trolls ESPECIALLY Reverse since it explodes and kills your party in one shot I did not see it coming and got trolled so hard it was not even funny and my party was at full health when it happen not even Byakuren survived IT SUCKS.
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I can vouch for that one, I gave Komachi the item that gives attacks poison and things went lol funny mode. Also... the Enhanced 3 Orbs are trolls ESPECIALLY Reverse since it explodes and kills your party in one shot I did not see it coming and got trolled so hard it was not even funny and my party was at full health when it happen not even Byakuren survived IT SUCKS.
How much resistances did you have? I'm thinking that by that time in the game you'd need to have like, 300 resistances.
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How much resistances did you have? I'm thinking that by that time in the game you'd need to have like, 300 resistances.
300+ resistances in most of the parts for the fight, I didn't have a problem with them that badly it was just Reverse's exploding caught me off guard when I was about to finish it off with my overly buffed Gambler Flandre. I managed to beat them on my second try with me destroying both Canopy and Reverse and weakening Forward just enough to one shot him before he could revive the other two. Now, I'm just stuck with the Enhanced Amber Magatama and it's ridiculous due to it's newly formed regen and it gets faster with every turn like it did when you first fight it. I have the power to pack against it, but not when it's deciding to go "OH HAY IMMA SPAM HALF-MOON SLASH ALL DAY ERE DAY BECAUSE I'M ENHANCED" even with Reisen and Nitori this boss is evil, I'm thinking of trying to outwit it with Sakuya, but I might need better dark ammo. Any ideas about how to deal with the enhanced High Magatama, I already know it still has it's dark weakness and it's speeding up with every passing turn gimmick it's just... I can't staaaaaaaaaand that regen even though it's just only 78,000 hp per turn.
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Be bootleg and inflict death on it with Yuyuko + Reisen.
jkjk, but that's what my friend did to it. (And Giant Blue Oni and Knowledge)
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Be bootleg and inflict death on it with Yuyuko + Reisen.
jkjk, but that's what my friend did to it. (And Giant Blue Oni and Knowledge)
Wait is the Mirror also weak to death then?
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Wait is the Mirror also weak to death then?
Noooooo neither are weak to death, but using the combo of yuyuko and reisen can give a tiny chance to inflict death on both of those things. Like 3.5% chance of somethin.
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Noooooo neither are weak to death, but using the combo of yuyuko and reisen can give a tiny chance to inflict death on both of those things. Like 3.5% chance of somethin.
Ok... I'll do it.
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Noooooo neither are weak to death, but using the combo of yuyuko and reisen can give a tiny chance to inflict death on both of those things. Like 3.5% chance of somethin.
Were sub classes a part of that combo, ZXNova? Because I would think that Toxicologist for Yuyuko would be used to help in pulling that off. That, and the main equip that gives a chance to inflict death, for how little that item would be able to help(as far as I'm concerned, one could also send in someone with Toxicologist(with the Death inflicting spell up and running) + Sheer Force skill as a back up in trying to hit with instant death).
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Were sub classes a part of that combo, ZXNova? Because I would think that Toxicologist for Yuyuko would be used to help in pulling that off. That, and the main equip that gives a chance to inflict death, for how little that item would be able to help(as far as I'm concerned, one could also send in someone with Toxicologist(with the Death inflicting spell up and running) + Sheer Force skill as a back up in trying to hit with instant death).
If you're willing to do the tactic, then yeah, you would need toxicologist on Yuyuko to make the chances higher. That one item that helps inflicts death, you couldalso use that too to add more to chance of inflicting death, but I actually never used it. Having a Sheer Force toxicologist with you can also help, though I really don't believe their chances of inflicting death is higher than toxicologist Yuyuko + Reisen. Hey, the more death chances, the better.
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This was answered somewhere in one of the first threads but who would look there. Someone should really put it into the wiki imho. :V
[Byakuren's 4th scroll is] in the area of 14F around the stares to 15F. Just warp to 15F and go down, it drops there.
I'm assuming that this means the area below the first 15F waypoint? I tried fighting there for about ten battles and didn't came up with anything. Does it take a long time?
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I'm assuming that this means the area below the first 15F waypoint? I tried fighting there for about ten battles and didn't came up with anything. Does it take a long time?
It's completely random. But it really shouldn't take long. You have a Nazrin and Rinnosuke with ya?
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Found it after about ten more battles. Should've been more patient.
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Hey all,
I'm sure you guys get enough of these, but here's another "How do I get this to work?" post.
I downloaded the Ver 1.203 from the OP, extracted it, and ran THLabyrinth2.exe, and all it does is show a black screen and exit.
What do?
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Hey all,
I'm sure you guys get enough of these, but here's another "How do I get this to work?" post.
I downloaded the Ver 1.203 from the OP, extracted it, and ran THLabyrinth2.exe, and all it does is show a black screen and exit.
What do?
Obtain the actual game somehow, preferably through buying the game from melonbooks or something to support the developers. The download link in the OP is just the latest patch of the game. You need to have the actual game to apply the patch on.
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So, Laby2, I'm a bit confused by a skill description, and what the wiki says upgrading it does.
"Increases all stats by 60% and reduce 65% of her current HP" and "All stats +3% and HP reduction -5% per level" Would that HP reduction change be an improvement, or a greater penalty? 65->60->55 sorta thing, or 65->70->75 sorta thing?
It is for Maribel's Overflowing Unnatural Power spell
Related note: Maribel's skill Ability to Meddle with Boundaries says that "Buff effects decay slower on Maribel." Now, how much slower is this? Normal you would lose 20% of the buffs value, 100 becomes 80, 80 becomes 64, and so on.
I can guess at the answers, but I'd love a certain answer.
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The HP penalty gets reduced by leveling the skill up (55% at lvl5 is correct)
"Ability to slightly fiddle with boundaries" seems to actually be bugged in 1.203 and doesn't do anything. When at 100% she still drops down to 80%.
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Well, it looks like the translation effort is in a state of "complete and being bugtested/edited", so I suppose it's time to restart with a new file. Managed to edit the save file to give me Maribel and Renko (even if it looks like this causes the three deformed bosses to un-exist?), so the question is now "what party do I want to use"
My basically static party for my current playthrough is: Momiji, Wriggle, Komachi, Byakuren, Reimu, Yuugi, Parsee, Sakuya, Reisen, Patchouli, Yuka, and Cirno. I don't want to reuse any of them for a new party, and I don't want to Nitori either.
I am completely open to suggestions at the moment~
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Maybe do a synergy run of some sort? Looking at that list, you don't have any of the Yakumo members on there, so try that? It's what I'm doing at the moment (besides the Sealing Club synergy run that I've held off on since doing two runs at once would be kind of annoying, and Sealing Club I know will be a massive bitch since lol only two party members).
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I might bring all three of the Yakumo with me. I wouldn't do a "solely this cast of characters" run, as I want a full 12 person party; but it doesn't seem like a bad idea. (Speaking of the Sealing Club I know I want to use Maribel; not so sure about Renko though.)
EDIT: Yukari/Ran/Chen, Utsuho/Orin/Satori, Maribel/Renko, Marisa/Alice, and Tenshi/Iku. Exactly 12 characters, most of whom I gave extremely little attention to at best during my first run, and they've all got synergies. (Someone's going to have to subclass as a healer the moment I get subclasses though whoops)
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Renko is a rather interesting character to pick up though, she has several quirky but valuable abilities.
And if you take Maribel with you, you might as well take Renko.
I can recommend the Moriya Family especially Sanae+Kanako.
(Try Okuu if you want to be disappointed 80% of the game and then suddenly go wow at her all around greatness.)
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I can recommend the Moriya Family especially Sanae+Kanako.
I was debating bringing the Moriya in but I actually got a fair amount of use from them on my last playthrough until they were eventually replaced (Sanae mostly, as she's like Byakuren's lesser counterpart until you actually get Byakuren).
I'm probably going to discover halfway through this run that I've overlooked some very, very crucial things. Oh well 8D
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I often manage to not take characters with me that have piercing attacks or can heal and it is really not all that great having to rely on weird passives that heal, so watch out for that. :V (At least you can just give someone Healer subclass but AoE heals are sometimes just invaluable.)
You can do without but it's mostly just a hassle.
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(Someone's going to have to subclass as a healer the moment I get subclasses though whoops)
Rush Maribel's Barrier up in levels and hope that the heal is alright at gamestart scaling? :V
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Rush Maribel's Barrier up in levels and hope that the heal is alright at gamestart scaling? :V
At one level up on the skill (so it has the healing), on 1F
it was healing for ~10 HP.
so uh
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I've managed to beat the final boss, so what are the rough sequence of postgame stuff to do, and at about what level should I be at for them? (my party's average level is at level 94 right now)
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You should be able to handle the boss rush right away. Apart from that, there's three things.
A.Strengthened bosses (Which scale up in difficulty, so you'll go through them over time as you level up more)
B.Explore the postgame floors (You can just give them a go and see how well you fare; but you probably want to level up more at the moment instead)
C.Grind on 20F Depths
Well, eventually there's the postgame bosses, but those pretty much come after you complete both A and B. You'll pretty much switch between A/B/C as you feel like. How hard A and B are depends a lot on your party composition, but you'll need a lot of grinding sooner or later no matter how you look at it... so you'll probably just want to grind on 20F until you're sick of it and interchange with the other two things for variety.
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After the boss rush, as mentioned... it's basically "grind until you're able to do things, do things, go back and grind more". 20F Depths is the best spot in the game to level.
There's the three Deformed bosses (Starting near the level 120 FOE) to take on for the final two characters, and the twelve Strengthened Bosses (You should be able to handle the first at level 120-ish). There's also extra floors to explore by going behind where 12F's boss was (the floors going downwards expect about level 120; the floors going up expect 135-ish) which have a lot of gear, and if you're defeating strengthened bosses you can explore even more and find the bonus bosses hidden down there.
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I turned Sakuya into more of a defensive character since I already had enough damage from everyone else in my synergy run. She got Enhancer and thus became my only form of AoE heal. I definitely needed it during the 18F fight.
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I did that with Sakuya in my run too, actually, since she really didn't seem to do much damage, yet had useful abilities. By the time I reached the final boss her supportive power was pretty much useless, though, admittedly- it's kinda nice for awhile, but it does get pretty outclassed. That's okay, though, since she's got the synergy and -can- be offensive instead.
Although I just kinda dropped her for Mari/Renko *cough* She was actually just sitting in my party at lv1 for average level boss requirements for the entire postgame up to that.
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EDIT: Note to self: at least try to think a little before asking questions.
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So, hopefully I'm just missing something here. I just recently started playing the fully translated LoT2 (woo hoo!), but I noticed something weird.
I decided to try and take advantage of the consecutive battle bonuses, and swapped in different characters to preserve TP until my consecutive battles were around 20-25, thereby supposedly granting a ~50% bonus to experience and gold. However, I noticed that there didn't appear to be any difference in either of the two, when I looked at post-battle rewards. Is there something I'm missing here, or are there quirks to this system?
Note: I did switch floors during this run, but never exited the dungeon.
Thanks,
Veto
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The results screen doesn't reflect the bonuses, but you *do* get them. This is easiest to see with money totals.
It's silly.
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Ah ha.. interesting, and confirmed. I concur on the silliness factor. Thanks for the info!
Veto
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I should get the 1.202 or 203 patch? i already got the game with the 1.100 patch, cant find english translation trought
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1.203 is the most recent version, and there is an English patch for it if you look through the translation thread over in Touhou Projects.
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Okay, now that everything runs smoothy, what are the mechanics i should know in Labyrinth 2? Like any new debuffs or stuff changed? I cleared Labyrinth 1 and killed WINNER once
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Okay, now that everything runs smoothy, what are the mechanics i should know in Labyrinth 2? Like any new debuffs or stuff changed? I cleared Labyrinth 1 and killed WINNER once
There's a battle chain system, win battles in a row for rewards. new status ailments terror (lose mp per turn and die instantly when hit by the move terror eater), shock (current atb is halved then lose shock status), heavy (can't be form changed), silenced (no spells). there's a skill point system where each character gets their own set of skills which can be added to by tomes or stones of awakening. There's also a shop and crafting system so that you don't have to rely on just item drops and chests. there's also an achievements to go after for more good stuff.
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Okay, now that everything runs smoothy, what are the mechanics i should know in Labyrinth 2? Like any new debuffs or stuff changed? I cleared Labyrinth 1 and killed WINNER once
The big changes, aside from character specific tweaking/balancing (some characters are changed only a little for balance, some are changed a lot - don't assume every character is the exact same value/function as they were in LoT1)...
MP: Unlike LoT1, MP for casting spells grows extremely slowly. Lategame LoT2, you won't be able to infinitely spam your high-cost spells the way you could in LoT1 - cost will matter throughout the entire game. The good news is, the normal attack formula is at least passable now, and you can actually use it with several characters (of note, it will either use ATK or MAG depending on which is higher, and be Physical or Mystic element to match). Still, you'll still have plenty of MP with regularly party switching/Concentrate too, and still be using spells 95% of the time.
Accuracy and Evasion: Unlike LoT1, Accuracy and Evasion are actual, functional things. These stats do not change naturally with level - but a variety of passive skills and gear can enhance them. Pump up evasion on squishy characters and the results can actually be quite surprising! Similarly, be careful about neglecting accuracy - while it won't usually be an issue you don't want it completely neglected...
Game Overs: Getting Game Over'd in the dungeon is no longer a loss of time - you just get sent back to town. If you were at a boss, you can even immediately retry.
Chain Bonuses: If you fight several battles in a row in one dungeon dive, your EXP, yen, and item drop rates will all increase slowly. Going back to town (and I think running?) will reset these, however.
Skills: Every character has 3 points at level 1, and 1 point per level. You can sink skill points into a variety of effects, with a variable cost/max per skill. Every character has access to a small number of stat boosts via these skills, as well as some EXP enhancers. Past that however, every character also has the ability to spend skill points to level their Spellcards (enhancing formulas, buff/debuff effects, ailment success rates, MP costs, sometimes even new effects, etc.), and a variety of character-specific passive abilities that help to make each character more unique (For instance, Marisa can invest to get stat boosts when Alice is in reserve, to get some affinity piercing, etc.).
Elements: There is precisely one true "non-elemental" skill in the entire game, and the character using it is post-game only. There are two new elements as a result - Physical, which covers most generic physical attacks, and Dark, which several formerly Mystic skills were moved into (Mystic still remains as the "neutral magic" element). These can be resisted as normal with affinities. Not that elemental resistance is now indicated by the color of damage numbers - if it's turning blue, it's being resisted; if it's redder, it's a weakness.
Equipment: You now have a Main Equip slot in addition to the standard three equip slots. The Main Equip slot is mostly used to influence MP, TP, or MP/HP Recovery rates - but you'll come across some later that add ailments to all attacks the character launches, or also directly modify the character's base stats in some way. There is also actual money, instead of just SP, and a shop where you can buy equipment (or turn material drops from monsters into equipment/cash). Also, a number of lategame gear have more 'eccentric' effects than just stat boosting now.
Permanent items: Unlike LoT1, there are a number of items you'll come across that can be used to permanently enhance characters - either adding skill points, enhancing base stats (with a limit per character), or unlocking new stat-boosting personal skills. These come in limited quantities, but they're valueless if you're not using them, so spend them on characters you love.
Subclasses: Later in LoT2, you'll unlock Subclassing. Every Stone of Awakening you find lets another character have a subclass at a time, so until postgame you can't have one on everyone in your party (though you can reassign who has them easily). Subclasses slightly enhance a character's stats, but also give them access to new skills to invest in - both passives, and new generic-use Spellcards around a variety of roles (eg Enhancer gives passives that amplify the effects of buffs, cause healing on buffed targets, and gives spellcards for specific buff types)
Resetting: Unlike in LoT1, very little is permanent. You can freely do a Skill Reset at the library now - this will reset all of the skill points you've spent on a character, and also remove their subclass. You can also freely redistribute all the level up stat bonuses at any time you choose at the shrine. Only the stat gems/unlock books mentioned previously are permanent, and there's an item (available in limited quantity) that can be used to reclaim those as well.
Boss Levels: Every boss has a level written on its symbol on the map. If you successfully defeat that boss with a party whose average level is equal to or lower than the displayed value, you'll recieve extra items after the battle is over. If your party is too high level, you can temporarily de-level your party at the Hakurei shrine.
Hard Mode: Available as an option at the start of the game. Hard Mode just places two caps on your party: the first is that your individual stat levels at Voile cannot exceed [Level *1.2], and the second is that the above 'boss level' indicator is no longer a suggestion - your entire party must be at or below the level indicated, or you can't fight the boss. This is removed after defeating the final boss anyway, and is completely optional, but a good way to test your skills.
Ailments: Ailments in general are resisted far more, but are often more potent and many characters have ways of getting around resistances now. Of note...
*Poison damage on enemies seems to be proportional to the target's max HP, while poison on allies is determined in strength by what causes it.
*Silence can now be inflicted on enemies; it doesn't block spells but does reduce their Magic/Mind.
*Heavy (New) either prevents a character from being swapped around, or slightly reduces enemy stats (predominantly speed)
*Terror (New) temporarily increases spellcard MP costs, or slightly reduces enemy stats (and is used in a few character mechanics)
*Shock (New) is an 'instant' status effect. Whenever it lands, the individual (enemy or ally) instantly loses half of their current ATB gauge
FOE: Even in your Touhou game, FOE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_PVPyn6n8)
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That reset thing sounds like the best feature to me so far besides the going to town/retry boss, saves alot of time and you cant actually mess up your build anymore, thanks for the detailed post and explanation.will try to pass F1 and see for myself now
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*Silence can now be inflicted on enemies; it doesn't block spells but does reduce their Magic/Mind.
*Heavy (New) either prevents a character from being swapped around, or slightly reduces enemy stats (predominantly speed)
Those two can be really important ailments to use against some bosses since Silence reduces Mind to the point that enemies that would be practically immune to magical attacks can be downed with them pretty easily.
Same goes for Heavy, which mostly reduces enemy Def. Don't know about Speed myself. Never noticed it, but that I wouldn't put it past myself to overlook such things.
*Terror (New) temporarily increases spellcard MP costs, or slightly reduces enemy stats (and is used in a few character mechanics)
Terror doesn't actually increase your Spellcard costs but instead drains 1 MP every time the afflicted character takes a turn.
And another thing about resetting characters with "Tomes of Reincarnation": In addition to refunding Books/Gems this also resets the Library Levels and gives you all the money back.
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I think terror reduces your Mp by 1/10 your max mp cause I seen it drain more then 1.
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Right, my mistakes.
I think the only other thing I might have missed is that LoT2 status resistances are what they say they are. Unlike in LoT1 where the actual resistance was actually like 3* the listed value.
A lot of equipment works on the same kind of listed values as in LoT1 though; along with there being 8 ailment types now, it's actually quite tricky to be completely status immune in LoT2, and characters with really high ailment resistances overall are remarkable for it.
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Is there a way to play it fullscreen, or is manually-resizing it to the vertical size of your screen the best you can do?
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Same goes for Heavy, which mostly reduces enemy Def. Don't know about Speed myself. Never noticed it, but that I wouldn't put it past myself to overlook such things.
Heavy used to drastically decrease enemy def but it was apparently a glitch, I'm pretty sure they changed that in one of the patches
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Heavy used to drastically decrease enemy def but it was apparently a glitch, I'm pretty sure they changed that in one of the patches
That's interesting and good to know. I'll look out for that on my next run. With Kanako in my team Heavy should occur often enough.
I guess I did fight Tenshi, who is the most prominent case that I remember to take only 0s without Heavy, on the Magical side last time.
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Heavy still reduces defense in 1.203.
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Given that the translation patch is nearing completion, I'm tempted to start running through the wiki and tuning up the translations to match the in-game stuff. I'll wait until the translation patch is "done" though.
Might also be a good time to start revising character descriptions too, since I hear they're a little outdated (y'know, for the characters who even have them). expect drafts
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Are these gems that increase base stats possible to refund? or they are a one time use? i could wait until i get my static party to use them. reached 2F
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They're only possibly to refund by using a Tome of Reincarnation on the character who you used them on, although Tomes of Reincarnation come in limited quantities across the game.
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You can grind the final boss for more gems, but i don't think he drops all types of gems. Grinding the final boss 1 gem at a time is a pain thanks to the mandatory cutscenes along with the fact that he gives no exp or money.
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Can you eventually get an unlimited number of the skill-unlocking tomes? I'm only 13 characters into the game (I went and got Kasen as my 12th and Parsee as my 13th, so 3F) and I have no idea who my final party's going to be.
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Can you eventually get an unlimited number of the skill-unlocking tomes? I'm only 13 characters into the game (I went and got Kasen as my 12th and Parsee as my 13th, so 3F) and I have no idea who my final party's going to be.
I'm not sure. I know you can farm the final boss infinitely and that drops certain of the reward items, but I'm not sure exactly which that includes.
Either way, to be honest, you probably won't be spending any of them until very late in the game anyway - until then there's already already-available skills you will probably be prioritizing for each character, and it'll take plenty of skill points just to get all of those.
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I maxed-out Rinnosuke's item drop rate skill, put him on the frontlines, and it still took me 45 minutes and 60 battles to get another Great Tree Leaf to recruit Minoriko. That's got to be some kind of record.
Does spending money to increase your skills at Patchy's place affect your level-up growth at all?
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You can grind the final boss for more gems, but i don't think he drops all types of gems. Grinding the final boss 1 gem at a time is a pain thanks to the mandatory cutscenes along with the fact that he gives no exp or money.
He does drop all types of gems, and you can get 2 gems per run if you're at or below challenge level.
Can you eventually get an unlimited number of the skill-unlocking tomes? I'm only 13 characters into the game (I went and got Kasen as my 12th and Parsee as my 13th, so 3F) and I have no idea who my final party's going to be.
No, the skill-unlocking tomes are finite, however, if memory serves, you can refund those without a Tome of Reincarnation.
Does spending money to increase your skills at Patchy's place affect your level-up growth at all?
No. Nothing effects your level-up growth. Put another way, there is absolutely no way to screw up a character permanently in this game.
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I maxed-out Rinnosuke's item drop rate skill, put him on the frontlines, and it still took me 45 minutes and 60 battles to get another Great Tree Leaf to recruit Minoriko. That's got to be some kind of record.
There's actually a chest on 3F that has all of the Great Tree Leafs you need to recruit her.
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No, the skill-unlocking tomes are finite, however, if memory serves, you can refund those without a Tome of Reincarnation.
I think you need a tome of reincarnation to refund those too.
He does drop all types of gems, and you can get 2 gems per run if you're at or below challenge level.
It's probably faster to just mow him down when you're 50+ levels above the challenge level then trying for a "fair" fight at challenge level. It's still a pain to grind for them anyways.
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Put another way, there is absolutely no way to screw up a character permanently in this game.
Can you build a character outside the box, though? The wiki says gems and the skill boosts affect your growth rate.
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What's meant by that is that they affect the base-value of the stat. Let's say you equip someone with something that gives +12% Mind then that character gets a 12% increase in Mind of her Base Value, which is the amount before Library-levels and Equip.
The Gems and Stat-skills basically make Equipment/Library-levels more effective. (1 Library-Level is a 1% increase for said stat)
But the character won't end up with a higher value in Mind if you reset her to lvl1, increase her base-values and then put her back to maximum level.
That is at least what I gathered from my experience/testing.
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To put it more plainly, gems do affect retroactively when used. No need to use them immediately (Although, they're not doing anything if they're just sitting in your inventory)
There is room to build characters outside of the box in this game, yes - at least to some extent. Mind you, while some characters are very much meant to be build-your-own-character (Rinnosuke), others have personal skills or stat distributions that really push them towards specific playstyles in the first place.
also, man, some of these postgame bosses are assholes. I've gotten everything up to Knowledge Shadow done but haaa ha hahaha yeah "level 128 recommended" my ass let's not even get started on shredding bullshit
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Ignore the level recommendations.
I guess they set them with you building a very special party just against that boss.
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also, man, some of these postgame bosses are assholes. I've gotten everything up to Knowledge Shadow done but haaa ha hahaha yeah "level 128 recommended" my ass let's not even get started on shredding bullshit
For knowledge's shadow, your aim is to not let it get two turns by abusing shock (so a front line of orin toxic, reisen magician, and two dark attackers of choice is your best bet). For shredding, build your characters for defense and dark affinity, since it's magic stat is crap. You can two-shot shredding if you run a front line of sanae, flandre, aya and yukari, but flandre needs to be really strong or be wearing genji glove for the 2x damage proc.
Sanae, flandre gambler, aya and yukari Strategist, team line up just kinda works on anything not resistant to fire, which includes 3 of the 4 extra area bosses.
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The conversation about growth rate seems confusing. Let me explain it a little bit. (edit:Oh god I ranted forever why does this always happen)
You've got your base value for the stat, which is the most important; increasing this makes all further bonuses equally larger. Then you have your levelup bonuses, and increases from Patchouli's Library, which in the end work more or less the same, increasing your stat by a small percentage of it's base amount. And finally, you have your equipment, which plants one more big fat bonus on your stats, again from the base amount, independently of the levelup/library bonus. But, tl;dr, there are three ways your stats are raised, and the first (base value) will up the latter two at the same time, so it's big... especially when your BV was low in the first place.
Base value is only increased by the Stat Boost Gems and Stat Boost passive skills (the gems/books of enlightenment require Tome of Reincarnation to reset off the character) and by a few specific pieces of equipment (mostly, if not entirely Main Equips), and a small amount by subclasses... a large amount if you pick Transcendent. Base value boosts can be very powerful, and the most valuable cases are when the stat is important, but the character's Base Value is low... because adding 10 makes a bigger difference to 50 than it does to 100.
You can see base value on the special character info pages where you can see their Battle Points and how many gems you've used on them and stuff. It's also on the wiki, although the way the number is displayed is slightly different (If the game's page says 56, the wiki says 5.6). Gems boost it by 1 (or .1), while Boost skills increase it by 2 (maxing at +10, or you're rinnosuke and get like five times that) so... the difference is pretty small without, say, 10 gems.
It's possible to use base value increasing to build a character for a role they don't seem to be meant for, but in most cases it's best for just making them a little better at something they're already doing; like how a tank!Komachi can really use some investment in her low defense stats since she's already tanking, but her BVs are rock bottom. Or for characters who have good damage, but actually have fairly low base Magic or Attack; you'll hardly notice if you increase the BV of someone who already has really high Attack.
The reality though is you can't do this as much as you'd like. I barely (or didn't) have 10 gems for DEF/MND by the time I even beat the normal-game final boss, although I had more like 20 atk/mag gems and 30 hp/mp. And the Boost skills on not-rinnosuke are generally lower priority than a lot of their other passives or spellcards. And Transcendant isn't even -unlocked- until quite late in the game, along with taking a buttload of skill points to actually use. The main equipments to boost BVs all have significant tradeoffs and non-drastic effects... with the exception of the First Aid Kit (greatly boosts HP base value) which is godly on basically anyone, make your tanks tankier or your squishies suddenly not squishy, those things are priceless and you'll never have enough of them.
So, it's not the godliest tool, but it's there, and it can help some. It might also be worth pointing out that some characters with bad base values might have better effective stats than it looks due to cheap library levels... and vice versa. Late in the game you might be able to get their stats at lv180 for similar prices other people get to lv130 for... or only hit lv100 for that price. (And then, of course, that means that much more/less of a difference if you increase base values)
Side note:In LoT1, the equipment bonus is lumped in the same as the levelup/library bonuses, so late in the game when you have a ton of those the equipment bonus is really low... you mostly wear it for resists/affinities at that point. Equips are a lot more important in LoT2 due to this change, among other reasons.
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Keep in mind that no matter what the character's original base value was, they would receive the same amount of benefit from the same amount of BV increase assuming all other factors (level, equipment, library, level bonus) stay the same, and even if it would be bigger relatively if the original BV was smaller, this doesn't really apply to every stat. HP is the only one which relative improvement is really significant, so low HP characters benefit more from HP gems/boost/first aid kit than high HP characters. DEF and MND, in my opinion, are actually more beneficial to increase on characters who are already high in them (Tenshi, for example), as reducing damage from, say, 2000 to 1000 is a lot more significant than reducing damage from 8000 to 7000. ATK and MAG increase are even more complicated and most benefit characters with good formulas, or those who depend on high multiplier, low piercing attacks. Above all though, they are more helpful on characters with more multipliers, so characters with great levelling rate, cheap library investments, and better equipments (or better equipment bonus, which is why gems are often more helpful on Nitori and Renko than on anyone else) will benefit more from them.
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Gems are really helpful on Nitori/Renko partially because their base stats are awful but they still make heavy use of them for tanking with. But yeah, they're like, the best investment spots possible due to that plus maintenance. Nitori is broke tier and Renko is one of the best tanks along with having great support in Charge, which remains relevant due to several late bosses wiping off your buffs. (and in needing to get Byakuren up to speed in the first place before she becomes god)
You're probably right about def/mnd but it's kind of a moot point in actuality; you have -so little- power to actually raise def/mnd base stats due to the gems being nearly nonexistent (and going on Nitori/Renko if you plan to use either, most likely), and the people you do want to raise them for likely have a higher need of some other Main Equipment and subclass, leaving all of the options to raise it off the table.
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Already reached 3F, tried resetting reimu skills from Mana+ to exp+ just to find out i need a tome of reincarnation (I got 1) that means i should be more carefull where i spend my skill points, Anyhow managed to beat Alice doll and 3rd chen ambush party, finding out where to go now. always doing bosses in challenge level for more gem drops
Question: Can i freely sell any materials to nitori? or i need some specific ones to unlock characters? and where to get more chest keys?
EDIT: Runs into lv35 boss at 3F thinking i can rack game overs easily* Gets a yukari and yuyuko lv50 at party to wipe out boss* I totally didnt expected that, got another treasure key at least
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You can freely reset Skillpoints and Subclasses. You just get asked if you wish to also expend a tome to reset everything else. Just answer no at that question and you get a normal reset.
You may sell any material to Nitori if you so wish aside from the 3 great leafs for Minoriko.
Thing is that you really shouldn't. You'll need most materials later on and there are Achievements to get from crafting a certain amount of items. And there's a things that doesn't let you pass if you didn't craft enough items.
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Keys mostly come from achievements - you won't have many early on, which is where most of the treasure chests are. Any you get should probably be saved for opening relevantly-located chests (they always have amazing stuff for the floor you're on!). You'll eventually have enough keys to open everything, so don't worry.
And yeah. Crafting stuff is part of gathering achievements. There's also achievements to get by getting x yen from selling materials/gear to Nitori, but I'd save it for crafting instead (at least until postgame when there's like nothing worthwhile to craft except affinity upgraders/resistance items). I think crafting 10 pieces of equipment is what lets you get Nitori.
Also while it might sound silly to treat them as important, they are. Specific achievements are part of the process for unlocking Patchouli (255 levels in Voile), Nitori (10 crafted items), Kasen (game over 12 times), Suika (buy all three Sake from Nitori), Yuugi (Kill FOEs 10 times), Flandre (Kill FOEs 30 times and have 60+ total achievements), and Shikieki (72+ total achievements). There's also other barriers throughout the game that only open after collecting certain amounts of achievements (The highest I know of is on 20F, requires 88 achievements, and guards some amazing items).
Most of the achievements just get you permanent stat boost items, or cash bonuses, but there's a few that give really good equipment you can actually exploit by trying to get them early. Running from 50 battles in a single trip gets you a Meteor Drive (massive +spd, +def/mnd, some other bonuses), while fighting 60 gets you a Wash Basin Set (+50% atk/mag/def/mnd/spd). Once you have the TP via a full party, just do these on floor 1 - they're incredibly good equipment that you will probably be using a few of while fighting the final boss. If you can manage 36 item drops in a single run too (try Nazrin, Rinnosuke, etc.), you also can get a Master's Emblem (+8 Max MP main equip). Use that plus a character with already high max MP and some temporary skill levels into Max MP Boost, and if you can get >50 max MP even for a moment you can get a free Star of Elendil (+20% all stats, +all resistances/affinities too)
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Reached 5F, Rumia was MVP against golem FOE, however i feel like restarting with NG+ just to have favorite party from start,how this looks like? Meiling Utsuho Keine Mokou Kaguya Aya Chen Momiji Marisa Reimu Kasen And lastly Byakuren, however, from lurking i get Byakuren is the most broken character made with strategist subclass, is possible to make a offensive byakuren of the sorts?
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Off the top of my head the party looks alright. I hear Meiling doesn't quite make the godly tank she did in LoT1 (she's better as a second slot apparently?), but between her, Keine, Mokou, Momiji, and Reimu you have enough "can tank enough", I think.
Byakuren isn't the most broken character made, but she is the best single-target buffer in the game once she's in lategame/postgame to have all the skills that make her so broken (It takes 90 SP to purchase all the Sutra Scroll personal skills, and then another 10 if you want her to have the Strategist effect that makes her so ridiculous). In other words, you won't see her really being amazing until the final floors/postgame. As for offense... theoretically she probably could, but I'm not too sure personally how well she'd perform (Her MAG and levelling rate aren't exactly stellar, but she has some good side effects on her attacks and fair elemental coverage so she might be better than I'm thinking).
(the most broken character is likely Nitori - huge damage, and Maintenance is an incredibly broken skill, plus Optical Camoflauge, Cooling Down, etc. makes her able to just become a permanent frontline resident because she can tank too later)
I'd recommend playing your first time through as normal though.
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I am just not looking forward at those BP requeriments to get characters >_>, already had enough of those at LoT1
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Well, look at this way: you can grind BP while level grinding or money grinding or trying to get a drop item (for money grinding?).
I'm on 5F right now. I'm actually just going to try to get the "50 battles in one dive" achievement (while building up BP for Chen for the Ran events). At the tail end of it I'm going to have Nazrin and Rinnosuke in the front so that their drop rate increases are going to stack with the chain bonus.
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I am just not looking forward at those BP requeriments to get characters >_>, already had enough of those at LoT1
Fortunately they're not as bad. You can get up to 3 BP per battle this time, and 1 BP just by being in the party at all; to top that off the max BP requirement on any characters is only 400 this time, and if you go onto the status screen and change page a couple times you can accurately see how much BP each character has racked up, so you know when you're done. If you're aware of which characters need it and how much, just pop them in your party, check their BP once in a while, and you're golden.
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BP requirements are really easy as long as you just pop the character in your party for a bit during your casual gameplay. You gain it pretty fast now; it used to be far slower. And they still get BP when they aren't in the active 4, too.
(the exception is that flandre takes -so much bp to unlock- and it's all on characters you don't unlock until a good chunk into the game, so she actually kinda is an issue)
Offensive Byakuren -works-, but her damage isn't particularly impressive. Her attacks are okay due to the side effects they have, but Byakuren's real specialty is spamming her buff skill, and for that you're better off setting her as a tank. That being said, she needs a -lot- of skill points before her buff works particularly well, so before the final floor or two of the maingame she'd probably be best as a damage dealer anyway.
Darn I was cut on the matter of BP ;_; 400 is still a pretty significant BP chunk, though, but only Komachi/Minoriko/Nazrin need that much, and you'd probably want Minoriko around for that long anyway due to the early need for cheap support. Plus her offense is pretty good in this game.
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If you're using Byakuren you should pretty much dump every training manual you get on her anyways. You can always reincarnate them out once you hit postgame.
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The issue is when you're using Rinnosuke and want to dump every training manual on him instead :V But yeah, there's always reincarnating them off and giving them to him later.
Even at lv200 with every manual Rinnosuke is still so hungry for more. He's going to be silly in Plus Disk, whenever that comes out.
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(the exception is that flandre takes -so much bp to unlock- and it's all on characters you don't unlock until a good chunk into the game, so she actually kinda is an issue)
Darn I was cut on the matter of BP ;_; 400 is still a pretty significant BP chunk, though, but only Komachi/Minoriko/Nazrin need that much, and you'd probably want Minoriko around for that long anyway due to the early need for cheap support. Plus her offense is pretty good in this game.
flandre is dangerous enough that you gonna be most of the way through the next stratum before your ready to fight her anyways, so the fact that two of the characters you need to get BP on only join at the beginning of the stratum you find flandre in doesn't matter as much.
Nazrin should be in the back most of the time anyways to get part of the drop boost benefit from her dowsing skill.
Komachi is about the best tank in the game so she should reach 400 BP easy since she'll be in your party constantly to benefit from her tanking and her money boost.
Minoriko helps a lot in the second stratum (trying to fight the f4 foe without her is really hard, with her it's just hard), and you'll need to grind a fair bit to legit beat the f6 stairs boss anyway, so if you grind for the f6 boss, minoriko should have most of her BP as well.
so BP in this game is relatively easy comparative to the first game.
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I didn't like Komachi so I didn't use her at all :V When I needed the bp I threw her along with the other 3 sdm members I never used into the front row and did 334 battles on 1f.
This game has a lot of "best tanks", as far as I can tell; like, some people swear by Hina. (Although this flexibility is a wonderful thing compared to Meiling mvp eternity) Although haven not used Komachi (...or Hina), I can't really rate her against the others. Whenever I do a second playthrough (not gonna be for awhile, especially since I still have to play through Plus Disk whenever that comes out...!) I'll try her out, though.
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By the logic of the first post in page 13, means dumping defense manuals on patchouli sounds better than on meiling? sounds odd to me, also didnt knew komachi had a money skill, should check all skills before putting them at human village, my scout team is momiji with ACC skill, rinnosuke with +Drop rate and marisa reimu to kill floor thrash
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I admitted it's true that for def/mnd you care more on people who are already tanks, but really, -everyone- who stays out to take a hit wants more def/mnd and it's arguably more important on the people who can't do that as well yet (it depends on how well your tank is doing already tbh; and Patchouli is a rare case in that even -with- the def boost she's probably too glassy. Although a first aid kit and using Focus for grand incantation+philosopher resist does make it possible)
But as I said already, in the end, that's going to come down to "I'm fighting the final boss, I don't/barely even have 10 def or mnd gems, and my tanks need equipment/subclasses OTHER than transcendent and def/mnd BV boosters", so your tanks really aren't going to benefiting from it either.
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This game has a lot of "best tanks" [...]
On the topic of tanks: In comparison to LoT1 you have much less of a need of a dedicated 2nd slot tank and even 1st slot tanking can many times just be done by a robust character that isn't a dedicated tank.
In LoT1 I basically always had 2 tanks in the left slots who mostly did switching and not much else.
Now in LoT2 I do always have a dedicated Tank who sits in the leftmost slot. Once it was Hina, once it was Komachi, I even gave Mokko a chance (she didn't do a good job imho) but I also got it to work with just putting someone like Ran there who I build for Defense since she doesn't need high Magic for buffing. 2nd Slot isn't even a tank-spot for me anymore. That's the spot for "that character who can take a few hits and regenerates passively but is actually offensive".
I appreciate this flexibility and very many characters can be defensive enough to "tank".
[...] Patchouli [...]
Patchy is no Glass Cannon.
She is a wet tissue. But a wet tissue that just so happens to be able to blow people up if it gets to prepare.
Really, she can't even Mind-tank anymore. Poor Patchy with all the mean bosses that just use Multi-target physical attacks instead of Row-type.
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Yeah, there's not many row-type attacks anymore and a lot more all-target physical enemy skills. Kinda irked me. If you throw a First Aid Kit on Patchouli shouldn't she magic-tank just fine though? (The issue is still, of course, the MT physicals that are now rampant)
Anyway, as someone who went through the game with Mokou... Mokou's defenses are actually only "pretty alright", but Resurrection makes up for it IMO. She also gets a pretty powerful regeneration ability, so I tweaked her HP a lot, which also synergizes well with using Resurrection over just outright avoiding death entirely (Not that she chain-deathed against bosses I could actually handle, or anything) and she has a less-obvious selling point in VERY high SP regeneration, which is great for support subclasses like Pharmacologist. If you're really going to use Mokou tank though, you probably want a party that can ACTUALLY USE her Blazing passive, unlike mine... that's a great thing to have on your dedicated tank, but I didn't really have any fire moves until Lavaeteinn. Which, holy shit, why did I never think of combining that when Flan is nearly one-shotting some multipart bosses WITHOUT blazing?
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Guess I really should've given Mokko priority on the subclasses. The only thing aside from switching that she would do was trying to debuff with her one Spell. The thing is that in the same run I had Hina with me and I suppose you get where that went. :V
I really tried to make her useful with me even having 2 people that could use Blazing (Flan, whom I kicked at Floor 6 or so for two-shotting bosses and being generally Op and Satori who got some good damage out of Mokko's Spellcards)
What finally made me take her out of the party was the fact that she may be able to Resurrect-ank for a really long amount of time (unless you get unlucky and hit the 10% Fail-chance) but with her ATB being reset to 0 each time she would do nothing else and was just dead weight aside from Blazing in such situations. I should give her another chance sometime as an offensive character.
And yes, Patchy can certainly still tank Magical attacks if you give her a First Aid kit (even without, but that's risky). Sadly the fact still stands that now there are people who just do it better while not being downed by being slightly tapped on the shoulder.
Parsee comes to mind, who still isn't all that robust on the physical side but can take a hit if she isn't build glassy.
Also I found her damage to be slightly disappointing for being this slow and frail. Especially when compared to what she was capable of dishing out in LoT1
(That was even in my SDM run, where I had everyone but Flan out of that group)
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Even though Patchy has stupidly high MND, she often seems to be just under the level of completely negating it - and unfortunately when she's not straight up negating things her complete lack of HP sort of means she's dying from them. That said there were still several fights where I was able to have Patchouli just be Completely Immortal, so... yeah.
Komachi's an alright tank. The fact is she needs constant healing, and it hasn't been hard to get characters to the point of straight up negating damage. Even when negating damage is near-impossible, I've even had Reimu tanking things and taking 0 damage, or close enough that she can Concentrate (w/ Grand Incantation) -> Exorcism and fully heal the entire front line via buffed magic. Hell, my actual negation tank throughout the game has been Wriggle (who is so damn good in post game what the legit hell)
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Hell, my actual negation tank throughout the game has been Wriggle (who is so damn good in post game what the legit hell)
As someone who has completed a Team 9 synergy run, I know this to be completely true.
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Okay Is there anything i am doing wrong? i am stuck in 5F with barriers blocking some paths and those lampry FOE blocking others, currently grinding like mad so i can beat em
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How do I get Mari and Renko in NG+ file? I recruited them and beat up the final boss, but they still don't get included when I start a new game with all characters unlocked.
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So did the plus disk/expansion/whatever come out during this year's Comiket? I can't read Japanese but the official site doesn't look much different so I'm curious if anyone knows.
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Okay Is there anything i am doing wrong? i am stuck in 5F with barriers blocking some paths and those lampry FOE blocking others, currently grinding like mad so i can beat em
You want to find satori, she's on f4 but you have to get there from f5. the stairs for her are near the middle of the map (the FOE near the middle isn't a lamprey, pack fire and dark attacks for it).
komachi is your best tanking option for the lamprey FOEs since they use cold, dark (with a death effect) and psy attacks, they are weak to spirit and nature.
komachi will want ekkodo god of death for free spirit attacks versus the lamprey. You'll also want to kill ten FOEs before the end of floor 6 to recruit someone.
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Managed to kill 2 lampreys foes with a lv19 average party, via aya,rinnosuke and keine buffing kasen while rumia/miroriko/marisa/youmu did respectable damage
EDIT:Hina wiped the floor with my party :V
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How do I get Mari and Renko in NG+ file? I recruited them and beat up the final boss, but they still don't get included when I start a new game with all characters unlocked.
I had to manually edit the save files in order to add them (And doing so grants you the achievements for clearing the Deformed bosses for some reason, so they might become unfightable - not sure). I can pack up the otherwise blank save file if you want?
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You get Mari and Renko for NG+ if you complete the postgame content and defeat the Strengthen final boss.
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So did the plus disk/expansion/whatever come out during this year's Comiket? I can't read Japanese but the official site doesn't look much different so I'm curious if anyone knows.
I was under the assumption that was the plan, but there's still nothing on his blog.
Wonder if he couldn't finish it in time. Again.
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So did the plus disk/expansion/whatever come out during this year's Comiket? I can't read Japanese but the official site doesn't look much different so I'm curious if anyone knows.
https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/500468164119904256
This tweet seems to point to no, it looks like they were working with CUBETYPE (the guys who made Gensou Rondo and Touhou Koubutou)) for the game "幻想紀行" (Genso Kikou)
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Komachi's an alright tank. The fact is she needs constant healing, and it hasn't been hard to get characters to the point of straight up negating damage. Even when negating damage is near-impossible, I've even had Reimu tanking things and taking 0 damage, or close enough that she can Concentrate (w/ Grand Incantation) -> Exorcism and fully heal the entire front line via buffed magic. Hell, my actual negation tank throughout the game has been Wriggle (who is so damn good in post game what the legit hell)
The only times I've ever had to heal Komachi is when they hit her with Black Universe and during the Strengthen Knowledge fight (seriously hated that fight). She regenerates more than enough to make up for the damage she takes imo. If she isn't then I wasn't ready for that boss fight anyway / didn't gear specifically for that boss.
I rather have Komachi over Tenshi as far as tanking goes because there are enough defense piercing attacks that make me worry about Tenshi considering the low HP she has for a tank.
Also, yeah Meiling is totally either second slot tank or beefy attacker. In my synergy run, she's the switcher while Eirin is the main tank / healer. Speaking of which, I really need to upload the final boss fight and be completely done with the run. Then I can look forward to running through the game a third time trying all the characters I didn't put much thought on the first time through. And actually enjoying the story instead of just seeing moon runes.
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Eh, maybe it'll be done by the Comiket in December then. Who knows?
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I've been playing some more on my NG+ run recently. It's very fortunate that I had it on ice for so long and can now still enjoy the majority of the story fully in English. I've got to say, I really like that the game takes itself a little more serious than LoT1, but still has its goofy moments. On 7F,
Meiling's event really cracked me up (does that make me a bad person? :blush:) I mean, even when we didn't have the translation, you could somewhat deduce that viny monster was keeping Meiling trapped, but you didn't have...all that information.
In said NG+ run I'm more and more surprised how far away Kanako has gone from her crap-tier of LoT1. I noticed a few good sides about her already when I was making strategy-videos, but she's just getting better and better. What I noticed: Her Virtue of the Wind God actually seems to have such a good formula that it's worth using on bosses weak to wind. I breached the 10.000 damage for the first time in the run with it yesterday (when the average attacker's spell would still do ~3.000).
Cirno's also very, very useful, given that I'm using all the other Team Nineball members. But I think that has been common knowledge for a pretty long time already :3.
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Where exactly is mokou on 4F? i cant seem to find her at all to get her event, In other news, i reached 6F and finally recruited utsuho, had to teak my party skills/build abit to tank hina and smack her back with kasen
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Where exactly is mokou on 4F? i cant seem to find her at all to get her event, In other news, i reached 6F and finally recruited utsuho, had to teak my party skills/build abit to tank hina and smack her back with kasen
did you talk to reisen first? if so she should be in front of the switch on f4, if not go talk to reisen first ( who should be on f3 i think).
You'll also need to decide if to grind for the f6 stairs boss or not cause you don't have to beat the boss to progress through the game, it's also possible to win if you make a party for it and buff a certain character with training manuals and mp gems ( yuugi
). It means grinding to about lvl 30~, but when the rewards include a divine barrier and 1 each of the increase key items, it can be worth it.
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Is there a different cut-scene if you somehow manage to beat nuts tenshi at 6F? or stays the same like if you win hopeless battles in Final fantasy?
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Wriggle is a very good tank, she was the only person who could legitimately tank the wasp shadow attacks. Give her toxicologist and now she can pretty much inflict status on anything. Although, you may need some help from Reisen.
And Komachi isn't just an alright tank, she's a great tank. But being a tank who needs resistances more than actual defenses makes her pretty expensive. Which is why I HAD to give her Tome of Affinity (from which I think everyone did). Still pretty expensive either way. Once she gets a good amount of resistances, she's almost unkillable. And she doesn't even have to be a pure tank either. She can contribute by being a herbalist and adding some damage too.
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Is there a different cut-scene if you somehow manage to beat nuts tenshi at 6F? or stays the same like if you win hopeless battles in Final fantasy?
stays the same sadly but there's still rewards for beating her which can be better said then some of the FF battles.
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Is there a hefty amount of tome of reincarnations in the game? feeling guilty spending all gems not knowing if i will use those on other character later, Reached 8F so far, mobs coming in packs of 3 at most, nuking with kasen+marisa, made momiji guardian subclass, I trought i saw you could refund voile points (looks like i confused SP from LoT1 with SP for LoT2)
Last questions about those special stones; It says i can use max of 10 per character, 10 In total or 10 OF EACH ONE?
Real last question:Will i have another chance to get divine barrier beside Tenshi Boss that i just skipped?
So far builds are
Momiji DEF
Reimu MND
Marisa MAG
Rinnoruke MND
Keine MND
Utsuho MAG
Mokou HP
Kasen ATK
Aya ATK
Chen ATK
FillSpot Rumia MAG
FillSpot Minoriko MND
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You will get Divine Barrier again in later floors. Around 16 I believe.
And there are finite amount of reincarnation tomes. Just a note, if you need to reset subclasses and skill points, you do not need a tome of reincarnation. Simple hit do not use tome when you go to skill reset.
The stat gems. You can get 10 of each gem for each stat. And be very careful who you give gems to. Defensive gems are good on everyone, but offensive gems are dependent on the character. For instance, in your team the best person for atk gems is chen. She would really love some attack gems.
And finally, I hope aren't purely building around those stats. For Momiji, making her a defense tank is good right now, but on later floors she becomes pretty useless as a pure tank. That's why Momiji is a lot better as an attacker. Her subskills are meant for offense.
You should give Reimu some magic, that way her heals get stronger.
Rinnosuke shouldn't be built purely mind, but going that way in early floors isn't a bad idea I guess.
Keine is weird. Her defense is higher than her mind and she has a aoe mind up passive, which annoys me a lot.
If you're gonna build Mokou mostly HP, you really need to up her affinities. And affinities upping at the library is expensive.
Not sure how focused you are on Aya's speed, but if you're not that focused you should focus more.
And for Minoriko, You should build her a mix of mnd, mag, and spd. Mostly speed. That way she go in and quickly heal your tanks when she switches out.
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what i asked is: a character can have 10 gems in total (5 atk 5 def) or just 10 of each one? (10 of each), and i said i was confused of voile returning the MONEY in skills not the skill points, has i just got the game a few days ago and didnt knew skill points were for character abilities, sorry if that sounded confusing, i also feel the boss/foe theme isnt as upbeat as LoT1 boss/bloodstained bosses :V
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what i asked is: a character can have 10 gems in total (5 atk 5 def) or just 10 of each one? (10 of each), and i said i was confused of voile returning the MONEY in skills not the skill points, has i just got the game a few days ago and didnt knew skill points were for character abilities, sorry if that sounded confusing, i also feel the boss/foe theme isnt as upbeat as LoT1 boss/bloodstained bosses :V
ten of each one, (ten attk, ten wisdom, ten speed etc..) and you need a tome or reincarnation to refund the money spend via voile. you can freely reset subclass, skill points, lvl up points and character levels, everything else needs a reinc tome.
You can create divine barriers and farm them off of an enemy on 20f, it's just that a divine barrier a dozen floors early can help with bosses.
You can also farm the stat gems off the final boss so it you put in a few days, every character can have maxed gems.
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what i asked is: a character can have 10 gems in total (5 atk 5 def) or just 10 of each one? (10 of each), and i said i was confused of voile returning the MONEY in skills not the skill points, has i just got the game a few days ago and didnt knew skill points were for character abilities, sorry if that sounded confusing, i also feel the boss/foe theme isnt as upbeat as LoT1 boss/bloodstained bosses :V
"The stat gems. You can get 10 of each gem for each stat. "
I stated this before.
Maybe I didn't word it correctly.
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Wriggle is a very good tank, she was the only person who could legitimately tank the wasp shadow attacks. Give her toxicologist and now she can pretty much inflict status on anything. Although, you may need some help from Reisen.
And Komachi isn't just an alright tank, she's a great tank. But being a tank who needs resistances more than actual defenses makes her pretty expensive. Which is why I HAD to give her Tome of Affinity (from which I think everyone did). Still pretty expensive either way. Once she gets a good amount of resistances, she's almost unkillable. And she doesn't even have to be a pure tank either. She can contribute by being a herbalist and adding some damage too.
I just realized I never did that. I guess my Komachi gets to be the first and likely only person to have used a skill tome. Still waiting to see which girls get added in Plus Disk before I finalize my party.
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Defeated Yuugi,Iku and tentacle monster, MVP was mokou, she was tanking iku like no tomorrow with the auto heal+WND gear and resurrection just in case (Finally found another game besides elsword to play :V it was getting boresome already)
Current party at 9F
(http://i.imgur.com/MbSKvoM.png)
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You're gonna probably need to poison the f9 stairs boss as it's just about the only reasonable way to deal damage it, so for the f9 stairs boss bring satori and wriggle. f10 is when the random encounters start being able to be a real threat (damned balloon birds).
you did explore the SE of F7 right?
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gonna replace minoriko for wriggle and see how it turns out, whats on the SE of 7f? (forgot defeating alice) also,toxicology wriggle right?
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I fought super Tenshi on F6 and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get her. On my final try before I just gave up and let her run away, I could only get her down to 50% HP by having Wriggle poison her over and over, and that was like my best run of all my attempts. The team was around level 30, with Komachi getting a lot of investment in HP in the magic library so she could survive the first hit from Tenshi (Komachi had 3000+ HP and like 180 MYS resistance to accomplish this) and I basically ran the strat on the wiki, Aya getting two turns before Tenshi's first move to cast haste on Wriggle and Satori, who then spam Comet on Earth at Tenshi and pray it triggers the poison effect. At this point things had to go perfect, Tenshi had to take the first attack to hit Komachi, and then Komachi couldn't die - this was still not a guaranteed thing, if Tenshi rolled high on her damage she could still one-shot Komachi. Komachi uses Narrow Confines and I pray it debuffs the heck out of Tenshi. From that point on things get more crazy, somebody dies every turn so I didn't even bother healing Komachi or anyone else and just prayed it wasn't Wriggle. On that last run Wriggle made it until Tenshi ran away and I still couldn't get her. I guess my advice to others is grind to far higher than level 30 if you absolutely have to win the fight, but you can get almost everything she drops (just not the Divine Barrier/Treasure Chest Key, I think) if you let her go.
(EDIT) Misc notes on my setup: Aya had two levels in that skill that gives her 20,000 ATB to start the fight to guarantee she'd have it and the skill that makes her speed everyone else up on her turn, Wriggle had Toxicologist and invested in the subclass skill that makes Poison skills hit harder when they connect. Satori just had levels in the skill that lets use other characters' spellcards. Komachi had +HP maxed out, and a few levels in Narrow Confines. My plan after that first turn initially was to bring in Hina and nail Tenshi with her huge debuff move, but more often then not that hurt my team too much with the debuffs since Hina was generally only going to live for a turn anyways. I think there could be something there though, because a full debuffed Hina can hit Pain Flow for upwards of 8000 damage, which might be a way to finish Tenshi off. Master Spark only hit for like 5k, unfortunately.
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gonna replace minoriko for wriggle and see how it turns out, whats on the SE of 7f? (forgot defeating alice) also,toxicology wriggle right?
Imo, Toxicologist is the best subclass for Wriggle. Also, why would you replace Minoriko? Without Minoriko you won't really have a powerful single target healer for your main tanks.
@ Mystere Mys resistance? Don't you mean SPI resist? Cause I thought Kusanagi slash was a spirit attack.
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For f6 tenshi, the plan was mostly have a highly buffed lvl 28 yuugi (who had 10 training manuals so that she could have last fortress, hoshigima dish, and lvl 5 supernatural phenomina at the same time, ten magic gems for 5 extra uses of phenomina, and as many attack gems and speed gems as I had on hand into her) use phenomina to deal about 8k each before debuffs on tenshi and use everyone else as sacrifices to buff yuugi's last fortress, keine and aya were needed to buff yuugi, marisa and nitory did about 5k each and then used as a sacrifice for tenshi's attack, satori to help buff and use yuugi's shackles for the heavy, and the plan was mostly hoping that tenshi didn't hit yuugi. got it after a few trys.
This seems like the only sane way of defeating tenshi without grinding to lvl 40+ as poison is hard to land, kaguya is too slow (with large delays) to get tenshi in time and the boss resists all defense piercing attack you have at this point, (other then kaguya's cowrie shell with royal moon people skill).
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Here's a few things I like about LoT2 over the first game.
1) Dungeon floor design is a lot better, and sometimes you find shortcut-passageways (6F eventually lets you go between the two halves without needing to go through 5F first).
2) More treasure chests.
3) Encounter rate is lower even without Rumia's encounter-decreasing ability.
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Ah, thanks for the advice in regards to super Tenshi. Maybe I'll take another shot at her some time. I like this more than the first one, but it's kind of for a lamer reason: it reminds me more of Etrian Odyssey than Wizardry now. It feels like a more modern dungeon crawler, though there's still things like leaving the dungeon to level up and so on that is similar to older games. A big part of why I like the Labyrinth games is that I love the genre, and this scratches the itch in between the Etrian games. So Labyrinth 2 being more Etrian is a great thing, in my opinion. The artwork is also much better this time around, which matters to me more than it probably should given how much I like the main shooter Touhou games where the art is... well, what it is, but I can't help it. It was distracting before - now the characters and enemies look good and the dungeon effects are nice, too. Overall it's a pretty big improvement, I think.
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I fought super Tenshi on F6 and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get her. On my final try before I just gave up and let her run away, I could only get her down to 50% HP by having Wriggle poison her over and over, and that was like my best run of all my attempts. The team was around level 30, with Komachi getting a lot of investment in HP in the magic library so she could survive the first hit from Tenshi (Komachi had 3000+ HP and like 180 MYS resistance to accomplish this) and I basically ran the strat on the wiki, Aya getting two turns before Tenshi's first move to cast haste on Wriggle and Satori, who then spam Comet on Earth at Tenshi and pray it triggers the poison effect. At this point things had to go perfect, Tenshi had to take the first attack to hit Komachi, and then Komachi couldn't die - this was still not a guaranteed thing, if Tenshi rolled high on her damage she could still one-shot Komachi. Komachi uses Narrow Confines and I pray it debuffs the heck out of Tenshi. From that point on things get more crazy, somebody dies every turn so I didn't even bother healing Komachi or anyone else and just prayed it wasn't Wriggle. On that last run Wriggle made it until Tenshi ran away and I still couldn't get her. I guess my advice to others is grind to far higher than level 30 if you absolutely have to win the fight, but you can get almost everything she drops (just not the Divine Barrier/Treasure Chest Key, I think) if you let her go.
(EDIT) Misc notes on my setup: Aya had two levels in that skill that gives her 20,000 ATB to start the fight to guarantee she'd have it and the skill that makes her speed everyone else up on her turn, Wriggle had Toxicologist and invested in the subclass skill that makes Poison skills hit harder when they connect. Satori just had levels in the skill that lets use other characters' spellcards. Komachi had +HP maxed out, and a few levels in Narrow Confines. My plan after that first turn initially was to bring in Hina and nail Tenshi with her huge debuff move, but more often then not that hurt my team too much with the debuffs since Hina was generally only going to live for a turn anyways. I think there could be something there though, because a full debuffed Hina can hit Pain Flow for upwards of 8000 damage, which might be a way to finish Tenshi off. Master Spark only hit for like 5k, unfortunately.
For 6F Tenshi, the best tank is not Komachi. Mokou with Resurrection lvl 2 is the best tank in my opinion. There is no way Komachi can survive better than Mokou at this point of game unless you really put a lot of money into Komachi's hp. Well, Yuugi is my main attacker for the fight and I would rather dump all the money into Yuugi's attacks. :V If your lvl is high enough like lvl 35+, you dont need to use the gems or manuals on Yuugi. However, you can use them if you dont want to grind so much
Put Mokou in first slot and another sacrificial pawn(and switcher)at the second slot. As for third slot, use Aya for speed buff and Cirno for speed debuff. fourth slot is for your damage dealers (I used Yuugi, Nitori, Marisa, and Wriggle). Let wriggle go first and then switch in Yuugi and spam Supernatural Phenomenon. If Tenshi kills Yuugi early, then you might as well as just restart the fight. This strategy works for me every time and you dont need to follow exactly this strategy (you can use some other characters for second and third slot).
If you get Kaguya instead of Mokou, then you might have a harder time against 6F Tenshi. This game is good and good luck for the rest of your game ;)
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Whats the best sub-class for marisa or Mokou? Got a spare stone of awkening, also reached 9F tenshi, time to grind for now, highest is meiling lv28
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Whats the best sub-class for marisa or Mokou? Got a spare stone of awkening, also reached 9F tenshi, time to grind for now, highest is meiling lv28
For Marisa, it depends - do you want to max out her Master Spark or open her up to alternate uses? Because Sorcerer has magic damage amplifiers she could appreciate to push Master Spark even further. However, as she also has Arm-Twisting/Sheer Force (translation ver. dependant), she actually makes a great Hexer or Toxicologist, because she has ailment resist piercing and can land them even on targets that are normally near-impossible to do so on; Toxicologist in particular actually opens up like 4 extra elements of attack for her on top of them being able to cause a variety of ailments.
Not sure about Mokou. Depends what you're doing with her.
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Now i am grinding with all the exp bonuses i can find, everyone on front row got "hands on experience skill" 24% more exp at front row, other 8 characters got "motivated heart" 12% If full 12 people party, Main equip that increases exp on tanks and keine "Historian school" for a extra 6% if on 12 people party, nuking floor 9 with maxed asteroid belt and giga flare/hell tokamak
Front row is: Meiling,Momiji for acc+25 skill, Utsuho and marisa, already did the 60 battles challenge
EDIT: Defeated F9 tenshi via poison, mokou and meiling tanking, kasen and utsuho occasionally dealing 1k+/- damage with arm/giga flare
How well does a SDM party do? One more stone to get patchy, guide says i get remilia and sakuya at 10F, and flandre will be gotten later (Talking about SDM residents skill,If i understand it correctly its a 30% buff to all stats if all front liners are from the SDM)
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Now i am grinding with all the exp bonuses i can find, everyone on front row got "hands on experience skill" 24% more exp at front row, other 8 characters got "motivated heart" 12% If full 12 people party, Main equip that increases exp on tanks and keine "Historian school" for a extra 6% if on 12 people party, nuking floor 9 with maxed asteroid belt and giga flare/hell tokamak
Front row is: Meiling,Momiji for acc+25 skill, Utsuho and marisa, already did the 60 battles challenge
EDIT: Defeated F9 tenshi via poison, mokou and meiling tanking, kasen and utsuho occasionally dealing 1k+/- damage with arm/giga flare
How well does a SDM party do? One more stone to get patchy, guide says i get remilia and sakuya at 10F, and flandre will be gotten later (Talking about SDM residents skill,If i understand it correctly its a 30% buff to all stats if all front liners are from the SDM)
Hm, I never really used the EXP boosting passive other than Keine's passive skill. I wonder how well they work.
From what I've heard SDM seems to do pretty well, albeit you may need to make either Remilia or Sakuya more tanky depending on who you're using. Try it out yourself. And as a heads up for Patchy, she's ridiculously frail, even when it comes to MND because of her crappy HP. And she doesn't hit particular hard at this point, you'll need to spend points in grand incarnation and her main attacking skills in order for her to nuke real hard. Her lvl 1 attack skills sadly only do decent damage. This is from my exp.
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Hm, I never really used the EXP boosting passive other than Keine's passive skill. I wonder how well they work.
They're pretty useful. I use them a few times in my run for the extra experience when I need to fight for levels to survive.
Definitely really useful when you need to deal with FOEs for the larger exp boost they give.
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How well does a SDM party do? One more stone to get patchy, guide says i get remilia and sakuya at 10F, and flandre will be gotten later (Talking about SDM residents skill,If i understand it correctly its a 30% buff to all stats if all front liners are from the SDM)
You should have gotten patchy by F7 so you missed a stone somewhere on floors 5-7. And you should think about defeating the foes on f7-8 if you haven't already.
patchy needs a first aid kit to survive a attack of any kind but having debuff immunity and 5 elements to attack is handy, remilia is about the same as the first game (Imo only having two spellcards is really annoying considering now that gungnir has an element), meiling isn't as durable as she was in the first game but still durable,
sakuya has been improved alot and is now worth using as a attacker, and flandre is as dangerous as ever (as in while you can fight her by f12, you're better off waiting til F15 just to get the levels needed to survive).
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might replace chen for sakuya, aya can replace her for floor exploring, and might not use kaguya but ran instead,and finally gonna replace keine with mannosuke probably,is there any rewards for beating temshi in the post 9f battle where she gets a power up? also saw this boss called "C" in the wiki, stating is the strongest one (saw a video too) and i trought LoT1 boss cheesyness could not be upped in 2
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"c" is post game and is rather easy if time consuming so don't worry, and I don't think so since tenshi powered form doesn't get a beastiary entry for that power up fight.
The strongest one is the desire eating demon anyway, since it has an attack akin to scourge from LoT1 that it uses whenever it wants. (it's a bad sign when the challenge level for a boss is higher then the level of the boss itself, which is the case for desire eating demon, by 2 lvls if I recall.) (It might be possible to survive it but it would mean spending way to much money on dark affinity in viole and it still has a powerful ass death effect attached to it.)
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The strongest one is the desire eating demon anyway, since it has an attack akin to scourge from LoT1 that it uses whenever it wants.(It might be possible to survive it but it would mean spending way to much money on dark affinity in viole and it still has a powerful ass death effect attached to it.)
If you use Mokou and make sure to have a plan for dealing good damage, it's very easy.
The strongest one is definitely Culex
.
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F16 extra boss dies to flandre leviathening his ass twice without the genji glove, the desire eating demon has enough health that you're gonna need the genji glove procing at least once to do it if your plan is kill him before he takes a turn.
then again leviathening bosses twice is kinda how most non fire-resist bosses die for me.
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Well it depends how much overleveling you've done... I was kinda overleveled and had heavily tweaked Flan but she wasn't -that- strong.
I don't remember if I was using Mokou's blazing passive >_> I know I HAD mokou so it's likely I was? Maybe I wasn't. ...if you can stack blazing since like 3 people have it, then, oh dear, but that'd be way too broken if you could do that.
When you say "if your plan is to kill him before he takes a turn", though, I kind of imagine you're ridiculously overpowered for the fights.
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Apologies if this question has been asked, but is there any way to extract the BGM? specifically that strengthen boss BGM wich sounds chaos level epic like the bloodstained bosses from lot1
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When you say "if your plan is to kill him before he takes a turn", though, I kind of imagine you're ridiculously overpowered for the fights.
not really, it's when you give flandre flamelong sword, 500 viole attack levels and front line of (sanae, flandre gambler, aya diva, yukari strategist.) with that you kinda deal around 3 mil before the boss takes a turn, and the f16 extra boss himself only has 2.56 mil HP. f14 extra however has 3.96 mill HP which then requires the use of the genji glove and hoping for the double damage proc on it, (f14 extra can outspeed speed 550 aya, quite annoying). but doing F16 extra like this means you lose some bestiary entries for his sidekick since he uses his first turn to summon them and this plan kills him before his first turn, thus he doesn't summon them. F16 extra also doesn't get til first turn nigh invulnerability like "c" and final boss redux.
The first time you can use this strategy for great effect is on the f18 boss.
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500 viole attack levels
what level is your actual party at, again
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what level is your actual party at, again
flandre is lvl 153 and has 407 attack and 220 magic viole levels, killed f16 extra first for his drop so that flandre has flame long, quartz charm and genji glove equipped as well as the youkai metal shattering axe. 10 magic, 10 attack,10 wisdom gems as well as attack and magic boosts. so flandre's attack in the status screen is 60k and her mag is at 15k.
these stats are before I take on the desire eating demon.
Aya is lvl 158 with a speed of 700 with a choice scarf, two ninja lord costumes and the great question's mask equipped.
sanae and yukari could be lvl 50 for all the skill points we need for the sub classes and lvl 5 miracle fruit
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Defeated ran, MVP was utsuho spaming reactor and buffing her stats to spam even harder and kasen spaming NTR multi nuke and fist when ran was alone, meiling picked off ran remailing HP with mountain breaker after she killed utsuho and kasen
Still no info on how to extract music? I cant seen to find the song on youtube either >_>:
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Still no info on how to extract music? I cant seen to find the song on youtube either >_>:
Um I put Labyrinth of Touhou 2 OST into Youtube and find it pretty easily.
Someone has posted a mediafire link to the OST ages ago. Not sure if anyone remembers the link though.
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i checked both and it doesnt have the strngthen boss theme, let me recheck just in case
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just did a version is my set up at lvl 150 and it still worked on the f14 extra boss, so it should work on f16 extra as well, aya needs her speed at around 700 to be fast enough for the 2000 delay after the first leavithen, but other wise all that matters is getting sanae to double buff and genji glove procing.
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Kinda of confirmed it, the strengthen boss OST/theme isnt either on youtube or the mediafire link some threads back, Maybe because they were implemented in a later patch?
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That one got posted by itself later on. I have the link for that one thanks to not cleaning cookies.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/k250uj2w4kl2pkg/251_VS%E5%A4%A7%E5%A4%A9%E4%BD%BF%E6%88%A6.mp3
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flandre is lvl 153 and has 407 attack and 220 magic viole levels, killed f16 extra first for his drop so that flandre has flame long, quartz charm and genji glove equipped as well as the youkai metal shattering axe. 10 magic, 10 attack,10 wisdom gems as well as attack and magic boosts. so flandre's attack in the status screen is 60k and her mag is at 15k.
these stats are before I take on the desire eating demon.
Aya is lvl 158 with a speed of 700 with a choice scarf, two ninja lord costumes and the great question's mask equipped.
sanae and yukari could be lvl 50 for all the skill points we need for the sub classes and lvl 5 miracle fruit
And this is why I keep my Voile levels reasonable. When your character's level is a 3rd of their Voile levels, you've over leveled a ton already and thats no fun imo. If I wanted to make the game un fun, I could just give Diva to Aya fully specced for Speed and cheese the game that way.
Finally uploaded the final boss fight video (http://youtu.be/uwxuxXtcRso) of my synergy run. Started my third play through soon after and man is it nice being able to actually read the story. I realized a bit too late that my chosen 12 for this play through has no healers whatsoever so I'm going to have to depend on subclasses a lot more than I did in my synergy run.
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started a second playthrough anyways a while back, but if you call that overleveled... I'm not seeing how you defeat the extra bosses without being overleveled, cause they tear me apart, then again all the money that was in flan's attack could have been in affinities but still. (flan was the only character who had stats like that, eggs in one basket idea, what i'm getting at is that they need to give the f16 extra boss nigh invilnrability like they did with the f8 extra boss and the final boss redux.) (and i think it might be cheaper in terms of money to pump flandre like this then try to get twelve characters to have enough defenses and speed so the f14 extra doesn't mow them down like grass.)
Kinda hard to perpare for these extra bosses since they aren't in the wiki yet ( the f14 extra and the f16 extra), (possible strategy for the f14 extra is to shock-lock it like you do with the shadow knowledge, but it's stupid fast.. and both f14 extra and f16 extra are weak to cold and nature.)
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started a second playthrough anyways a while back, but if you call that overleveled... I'm not seeing how you defeat the extra bosses without being overleveled, cause they tear me apart
I can't speak for the others yet, but 8F's is all hella vulneurable to Poison (Hello Wriggle/Yuka combo you are silly and rack up thousands of duration on poisons) and then it's just a matter of sitting it out until they're all within range to get singularly nuked by someone else.
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Defeated Sakuya and remilia duo, even for their challenge level they feel easy compared to other things (party was 5 levels below), Finally got all the sakes for suika, and did the 50 runs challenge, aiming for 12F and killing 30 FOE, also got kanako, currently exploring 11f aimlessly :V
@AxelRayman Thanks alot for finding it :3
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I can't speak for the others yet, but 8F's is all hella vulneurable to Poison (Hello Wriggle/Yuka combo you are silly and rack up thousands of duration on poisons) and then it's just a matter of sitting it out until they're all within range to get singularly nuked by someone else.
F8 extra is take yuuka, give her midgard's tooth, spam beauty of nature. Make sure to pack dark affinity and debuff the bosses, (hina works well for that).
F11 extra is Leviathan twice because being weak to fire is silly when gambler flandre exists.
F14 extra has a renamed scourge as a random attack and as such is probably RNG heavy if you don't shock lock it.
F16 extra is... I forgot because I Leviathan his ass to quickly to get much of a feel for his fight.
Defeated Sakuya and remilia duo, even for their challenge level they feel easy compared to other things (party was 5 levels below), Finally got all the sakes for suika, and did the 50 runs challenge, aiming for 12F and killing 30 FOE, also got kanako, currently exploring 11f aimlessly :V
@AxelRayman Thanks alot for finding it :3
sakuya and remilia is rather easy thanks to the fact all you need to worry about is surviving and not needing to worry about sky high defenses like most bosses do, that and the fact that sakuya is weak to both shock and paralysis make it easy to keep her from acting too much.
Make sure to find ten stones of awakening by F15. F12 in this game is still pretty painful compairable to maybe F12 in the first labrythe game, might not be as bad but still hurts.
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started a second playthrough anyways a while back, but if you call that overleveled... I'm not seeing how you defeat the extra bosses without being overleveled, cause they tear me apart, then again all the money that was in flan's attack could have been in affinities but still. (flan was the only character who had stats like that, eggs in one basket idea,
I just kinda assumed your other party members had similar-ish stats which is why I said you were over leveled. I can't say I agree with the whole eggs in one basket idea, especially as far as Voile levels go, since Voile gets diminishing returns with respect to how much it costs to raise the stat when you raise a stat that high. There's probably a point where it'd be more efficient to raise another character's stat to get more bang for your buck, but it's kind of hard to figure out when that actually happens.
I feel like the extra bosses are manageable at or at least around challenge level, if you geared and chose party members specifically for that boss. I'm pretty sure no one did that though, due to Late Character Syndrome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LateCharacterSyndrome) as I certainly didn't.
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It's just easier to gear one attacker then trying to gear 6+ attackers (I so wish we could craft main equipment), I don't wanna farm cinderforge swords and grand master breakers off of the hardest random encounters for a less then1% drop chance of them and you only get one genji glove cause there's only two dragon's manes and two items need a dragon's mane.
and there's a reason that the two harder extra bosses aren't weak to wind or fire what with flamelong and mjolnir equipment around.
besides, they should have made the bosses a bit more fire resistant if they didn't want this to happen. Or make the F18 boss so bloody annoying so that it started this strategy in the first place.
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Putting a bit of thought back into my speedrun planning, now I'm wondering if I should also manipulate the Gem drops to help boost up base stats for certain characters(I.E Nitori for damage, maybe Wriggle for Defenses) along with boss drops, or just manipulate the boss drops(Which is hard/annoying enough as is).
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probably a no on manipulating gem drops, you're probably get enough of what you need if you keep beating bosses under the challenge level, (10 magic gems for flandre so that she can double gamble laevithen f18 boss's annoying ass.)
is it just me or does hard mode actually lower some bosses challenge levels? cause i don't remember flandre's challenge level being 65 or the f12 bosses being 48,48,50 respectivly.
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probably a no on manipulating gem drops, you're probably get enough of what you need if you keep beating bosses under the challenge level, (10 magic gems for flandre so that she can double gamble laevithen f18 boss's annoying ass.)
Not getting Flan. Chances are I won't be hitting 60 achievements, maybe half that, but even if I could, I'd need to recruit the SDM crew and get them 300 BP each.
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right right, Still don't think you need to manipulate the gem drops for the speed run. who are you planning on getting?
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you only get one genji glove cause there's only two dragon's manes and two items need a dragon's mane.
You can farm infinite dragon's manes. From the...baby dragons? I think you can find them on 15F's extra area. (This is all based on memory so my details might be wrong.)
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right right, Still don't think you need to manipulate the gem drops for the speed run. who are you planning on getting?
In terms of optionals I'm getting
Kasen - Well-rounded in terms of stats and has some early game power that's useful.
Cirno - Has some use with the Slows
Aya - Pretty obvious reason
Wriggle - Her Poison helps with getting past Hina and Iku, and may help even more later on, maybe.
Parsee - Main mind tank who's main use will be for switching, though if I can inflict Terror that's also good.
Nitori - Need I explain?
Reisen - Debuffs as well as her Intense Vertigo Skill (May due some testing to see how many bosses I can proc Death on using this).
Not sure on anyone else though. Kogasa might be a good idea to grab because of Terror and having decent skills, but I'm not entirely sure.
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F14 extra has a renamed scourge as a random attack and as such is probably RNG heavy if you don't shock lock it.
Again- if you take Mokou and are capable of dealing good damage to the boss, you're probably fine (and it's not a big deal if mokou has no real stat investment, so long as she's got DTH resist and maxed Resurrection and doesn't fall over to it's wimpier attacks) It's non-scourge moves aren't very scary IIRC and it's HP isn't particularly high. I think it's pretty vulnerable to debuffs too?
F8 extra is also pretty easy as long as you're careful about killing them all at the same time. Poison helps if there's issues with doing that. It's fun when you go in blind not expecting the shenanigans, though.
The other two are actually bosses; almost no one will have invested in Flandre heavily enough to just lolcheese them, and one's skillset is very likely to get Flan killed not too far into the fight by moving her into the front by itself and then immediately killing her because glass
. Plus many would consider Aya Diva to be too gamebreaking to use :V
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Again- if you take Mokou and are capable of dealing good damage to the boss, you're probably fine (and it's not a big deal if mokou has no real stat investment, so long as she's got DTH resist and maxed Resurrection and doesn't fall over to it's wimpier attacks) It's non-scourge moves aren't very scary IIRC and it's HP isn't particularly high. I think it's pretty vulnerable to debuffs too?
F8 extra is also pretty easy as long as you're careful about killing them all at the same time. Poison helps if there's issues with doing that. It's fun when you go in blind not expecting the shenanigans, though.
The other two are actually bosses; almost no one will have invested in Flandre heavily enough to just lolcheese them, and one's skillset is very likely to get Flan killed not too far into the fight by moving her into the front by itself and then immediately killing her because glass
. Plus many would consider Aya Diva to be too gamebreaking to use :V
F14 extra has 3.96 mil, the second highest after staring, (discounting the final redux cause i haven't beat him for his entry). F14 extra runs the curse skills and gravity manipulation, as well as venom and silence fogs, he also resists debuffs somewhat. (just by going in his beastiary and memorys of failed runs.)
F11 extra boss is weak to fire and has 2.15 mil HP so...
I hear about the F16 extra though, guess I'm just silly with buffing flandre so much.
In terms of optionals I'm getting
Kasen - Well-rounded in terms of stats and has some early game power that's useful.
Cirno - Has some use with the Slows
Aya - Pretty obvious reason
Wriggle - Her Poison helps with getting past Hina and Iku, and may help even more later on, maybe.
Parsee - Main mind tank who's main use will be for switching, though if I can inflict Terror that's also good.
Nitori - Need I explain?
Reisen - Debuffs as well as her Intense Vertigo Skill (May due some testing to see how many bosses I can proc Death on using this).
Not sure on anyone else though. Kogasa might be a good idea to grab because of Terror and having decent skills, but I'm not entirely sure.
You're probably gonna need wriggle for the f9 stairs boss at least.
Don't think there's any point where the immortals are needed in terms of plot so mokou is also optional, but mokou is required for reisen.
Might wanna add kaguya and eirin to that list if you're getting reisen and mokou, they are relatively quick to pick up and defense piercing traits are handy in boss battles. eirin's mercury sea help for randoms on floors f13-15 and her over-heal can help anyone tank through an attack so that they don't have to switch out, kaguya is gonna help on the two mirror bosses at the least.
Rumia is a decent idea cause she makes 12f stairs boss a chump, (defense ignoring dark attacks, that works, hey, that also helps on the final boss...).
Hints for bosses i can think of... the F12 stairs boss doesn't attempt to strip off herb of awakening and only uses the nature nuke if her defense is debuffed. (which is why a herb of awakeninged rumia is really effective, no need to debuff defenses and with three forbidden tablets and mag spec, and the fact the boss counts as a human, she can deal about 10k a hit, enough to kill in 7-8 attacks.)
One of the parts of the F18 boss can be deathed if your lucky.
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You're probably gonna need wriggle for the f9 stairs boss at least.
Don't think there's any point where the immortals are needed in terms of plot so mokou is also optional, but mokou is required for reisen.
Might wanna add kaguya and eirin to that list if you're getting reisen and mokou, they are relatively quick to pick up and defense piercing traits are handy in boss battles. eirin's mercury sea help for randoms on floors f13-15 and her over-heal can help anyone tank through an attack so that they don't have to switch out, kaguya is gonna help on the two mirror bosses at the least.
rumia is a decent idea cause she makes 12f stairs boss a chump, (defense ignoring dark attacks, that works).
Hints for bosses i can think of... the F12 stairs boss doesn't attempt to strip off herb of awakening and only uses the nature nuke if her defense is debuffed. (which is why a herb of awakeninged rumia is really effective, no need to debuff defenses and with three forbidden tablets and mag spec, and the fact the boss counts as a human, she can deal about 10k a hit, enough to kill in 7-8 attacks.)
One of the parts of the F18 boss can be deathed if your lucky.
I actually needed Wriggle for Hina and Iku due to not having the levels to damage them enough and survive. Plus, I can't debuff Hina, so right there ruins a lot of my pressure. For 9F, I can probably get around the Defense using Monk's Spellcard to ignore a portion of defense, and since Tenshi there doesn't go berserk if you have debuffs on her, I can keep her debuffed as well.
I'll probably be grabbing at least one of them. Kaguya will come in handy but Eirin...eh? Might help if I build her damage for the final boss. For 13-15, Nitori can handle the enemy a lot better than Eirin can.
Rumia I think was one I considered, especially for 12F Tenshi. Only issue would be the Manga Meats, but those aren't that difficult to get. If anything, I can grab her after Floor 3 at least.
I'll keep that in mind for 12F Tenshi
Once Diva becomes available, every required boss after isn't much of a threat. I won't need be required to gain anymore levels(I'll probably still fight enemies on 13-15 since they'll easily die, but after I won't until I hit the FOE section of 20F). That Death idea on the 18F boss however was one I planned to do since it has no Star resistance and Reisen will just lower it even more.
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well, eirin/reisen is relativly quick to get, there's a teleport near the start of f11 behind a red gate, and if you have the blue switch off, you can just take the tele and get eirin/reisen as the first thing you do on f11, besides there's a stone of awakening to the east of where eirin is so you might as well pick up both of them. ( nitori tends to have a problem with the ancient iron shelled tortoises on f13-14 thanks to their high defense.)
You get a manga meat in a chest, and a manga meat for fighting 50 battles or you can just buy them for 240 each from the shop.
Rumia can act as second tank and healer for hina if you get another love machine for her as well as help on the blue orchid fight.
Rumia gambler on the final boss would deal around 80k per moon if memory serves right, nice considering it'll only cost 6 mp and doesn't care about the boss buffs, might also help deal with the help he gets on the last phase if you need it. (Rumia is kinda awesome if you haven't noticed by now.)
(should be easy to inflict terror on hina considering you're using parsee to tank and picking up kaguya on floor 5 means you can bullet branch her for good damage.)
assuming a lvl 49 rumia set up and equipped so that she has 3k mag for the below strategy.
12f tenshi will get about 1, maybe two attacks off before the damage from rumia starts to force her scripts, and if done right, you should kill her on her second focus. if tenshi decides to use shadow step or grass knot as one of the two attacks she gets at the start, then healer eirin can over heal rumia so that rumia doesn't have to be withdrawn to dodge the first focus-attack.
Forbidden tablet gives spirit resistance, the same element the focus attack deals, but rumia's max hp is low enough that it's still oneshot her dispite taking half damage, hence eirin, also 12f tenshi doesn't trigger her anti buff attack during her scripts I think and if she does, if you keep the mag and attack buff from art of the battlemage under 50% tenshi still won't trigger her anti buff attack.
Near the end, you can withdraw your second slot for rinnosuke to try to get the star drop.
(this is what trying to grind a free orb of earthin and cinderforge sword teaches you, how to kill tenshi quickly.)
Another thing I remember is the at 50% Hp iku is scripted to not only buff herself but to do her AOE, even if she drops below 33% HP between the buff and the attack, that caught me offguard once.
Also noticed your notes say fight mokou but not picking her up, might wanna for the Resurrection and the blazing passive for the f14 touhou boss and the f15 sigil boss, both of whom start the battles with strong attacks and are weak to fire, and any melee attacker can have explosive flame sword to use with the blazing passive.
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Update: Reached F12 and defeated magatama (First try with level up setup), Mirror (Several tries and had to use boss setup, only Utsuho/Kasen managed to deal damage), And 12F tenshi (Again Only Utsuho and a very buffed kasen dealt damage
Here is the front row setup i used to beat her with luna dial+Sword treasure,reimu strategist buffing and healing after kasen and utsuho dealt hits and aya using divine grandson advent anytime she could, now lets see how bad is this 12-15F temperature puzzle because i am arrogant and gonna brute force it instead of using a guide ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/thEoW1F.png) (http://imgur.com/thEoW1F)
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The temperature puzzle isn't too bad - just keep notes about where the switches are and tackle it each individual section at a time (they're actually roughly segmented out, if that makes any sense, so you can do all the things in one chunk before moving onto the next).
You're probably having trouble dealing damage to certain bosses because your party doesn't have any debuffers (unless Marisa is subclassed as a Hexer).
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Rumia I think was one I considered, especially for 12F Tenshi. Only issue would be the Manga Meats, but those aren't that difficult to get. If anything, I can grab her after Floor 3 at least.
If you toss on Satori along with Rumia, the 12f boss is pathetic even with minimal investment in either of the characters. Since you'll be quite underleveled it might be necessary in order to reach enough damage to cheese her pattern?
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If you toss on Satori along with Rumia, the 12f boss is pathetic even with minimal investment in either of the characters. Since you'll be quite underleveled it might be necessary in order to reach enough damage to cheese her pattern?
probably don't need satori. the original numbers forgot youkai's knowledge (silly me).
reran with new numbers (nice having a save right before f12 tenshi), a lvl 41 rumia (for maxed mag boost, maxed dark moon and maxed youkai's knowledge), with 53 voile mag levels, 10 voile speed, equipped with three forbidden tablets, for a total of 2.8k mag still ruins tenshi with proper support, ( lvl 5 herb of excitement, and a attack-magbuff (as love as those two don't get to 50% buff rating)). you can probably drop to 40 mag voile levels and maybe use other mag booster items without hurting the performance much, (not youkai medal axe, otherwise you might not have enough MP without concentrating.)
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Got to 16F. Still gotta find byakuren #4 scroll drop, now i admit i used puzzle guide at the end when i was desperate just to find out i had to kill the foe Lava dragon to progress :derp:, Yuyuko and shining blue giant wiped the floor with me, gonna return later
Also who else gets "unique" monsters once every 30 encounters or so? is there any extra bonus for killing those? they look like abit stronger versions of floor thrash
EDIT:Finally found scroll #4 :3
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Sadly the way forward isn't past the Foe, that leads to a small area for post game, go there anyways to get goodies and trigger a relay point.
You want the NE corner on F15 past two rocks that need yuyuko and shining blue giant to be defeated.
unique monsters have their own drops and tend to give either lots of exp or money. they have beastiary entries so getting the 200 entries achivement means finding all of them most likely.
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probably don't need satori. the original numbers forgot youkai's knowledge (silly me).
reran with new numbers (nice having a save right before f12 tenshi), a lvl 41 rumia (for maxed mag boost, maxed dark moon and maxed youkai's knowledge), with 53 voile mag levels, 10 voile speed, equipped with three forbidden tablets, for a total of 2.8k mag still ruins tenshi with proper support, ( lvl 5 herb of excitement, and a attack-magbuff (as love as those two don't get to 50% buff rating)). you can probably drop to 40 mag voile levels and maybe use other mag booster items without hurting the performance much, (not youkai medal axe, otherwise you might not have enough MP without concentrating.)
Trying to actually remember where all 3 Forbidden Tablets are at this point.
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well one is dropped by alice just by looking at the drops list and one is probably in a locked chest somewhere.
One more rerun, lvl 41, yada yada yada equipped with 3 kalar crystals and 40 mag voile levels, doable if you buff her mag above 50% for the last attack, still killed her after the second focus but before the focus attack and you just barely have enough MP to pull this off without needing to regain any (if you want more mag, give her a subclass). you can buy kalar crystals in the shop by this point so, not much problem there. Main equip should either increase her ACC or MP just so you don't have to worry about losing tempo and risk the boss running out of scripts.
Honestly, the hard thing is gonna be beating the other two bosses on F12.
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well one is dropped by alice just by looking at the drops list.
Yeah I haven't gone to fight her either. Chances are I'll be around 30 for the fight anyway. Maybe, depends how much leveling I'll need to do for Magatama and Mirror.
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Let's see, gotta add satori strategist for the trauma recollection and furious scheme (only enough skill points for two ranks of spellcard recollection, which means that copying dark moon takes 6 MP and will deal around half of rumia's dark moon damage), as well as a durable second slot enhancer, But beating f12 tenshi as lvl 31 is doable if a bit risky as you have to hope tenshi doesn't just oneshot slots 3 or 4 during her first 1-2 turns after the starting enlightenment.
Line up is 31 komachi herbalist, lvl 31 unknown enhancer, lvl 31 satori strategist, and lvl 31 rumia sorcerer (for the minor mag boost) as well as 2-3 people durable or dodgey enough to take a kusanagi wild dance. both satori and rumia were equipped with kalar crystals but you're probably gonna have to sub in equipment cause there isn't just 6 kalar crystals in a chest somewhere and they are 2.5k apiece. You're gonna need some decent voile levels for this, rumia was at mag voile lvl 53 and satori was voile mag lvl 11.
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Defeated Azure giant,yuyuko and flandre, whats the recommended level fo that 16F foe blocking the path?
Question about skill buffs: do they count separately from normal buffs? for example if remilia got 30% atk from SDM residents skill, i can buff her and make 130% attack at max correct?
Also is amusing seeing sakuya using luna dial once just to make it proc 2-3 times in a row, currently grinding in 15-16F via laveatin incineration
EDIT:Scratch that, i need to beat yukari, not the unmoving foe
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The 16F Foe isn't blocking the path and it isn't meant to be fought right now. It's around the same level as the final boss if you're wondering.
What you're looking for is to beat up Yukari on the NE end of 15F; she's guarding the pathway to 16F proper.
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Anybody knows the...tome of reincarnation cheat engine code? with me constantly shuffling members i think i screwed up, i am in 16F and no tomes left. unless they dont influence that heavily on characters (Worried mostly about the MP/TP ones) (Windows 8 just in case anybody knows the answer)
EDIT:Defeated yukari, found 4 tomes in a locked chest on 16F so no worries now :V
Current party:
Reimu
Tenshi
Ran
Utsuho
Mokou
Kasen
Meiling
Sakuya
Remilia
Flandre
Aya
Byakuren
I would use patchy, But her speed is so offputting for me
Ran,Reimu,Sakuya and aya are buffers/Semi tankers
Meiling,Tenshi,Mokou are tanks
Remilia,Flandre,Kasen and utsuho are the damage dealers
Byakuren, i still dont know what to do with her
I am cleaning floors with magician flandre, due to more MP,chance of leavetin not using MP at all, and recovering 1 MP per turn+Reimu ability of 66% chance of giving 1 MP at the end of the battle
Another questions: Is leveling skills really that helpfull? for example: Why i should level divine grandson advent? it lowers the MP cost or aya delay?
EDIT: Found out SDM residents does not increase speed and Meiling Nap skill doenst work either, well at least i got sakuya to patch that up abit i guess (Information from main page/bugs section) it says momiji Acc skill doenst work either, so i have been lied the whole time about my accuracy?
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Byakuren, i still dont know what to do with her
Another questions: Is leveling skills really that helpfull? for example: Why i should level divine grandson advent? it lowers the MP cost or aya delay?
Byakuren is best used as a tanky buffer, By useing the strategist's inspiration and her own abilitys, she can keep a 100% buff on her at all times, then pass that buff with her last spell card, just needs alot of skill points.
Leveling skills tends to make them better, advent is one of the less straight forward ones when it comes to leveling.
Leveling it up raises the priority of the free turn, if multiple characters have a fill ATB Bar during the same tick, the one who goes first is the one with the highest one then player priority then left to right on your formation bar, so 20000 filled bar would go first before the 15000 filled bar even though they both take a turn because the ATB is higher then 9999. advent sets the ATB to 10000 * skill level. You currently don't need more then one level in advent in the current game.
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EDIT: Found out SDM residents does not increase speed and Meiling Nap skill doenst work either, well at least i got sakuya to patch that up abit i guess (Information from main page/bugs section) it says momiji Acc skill doenst work either, so i have been lied the whole time about my accuracy?
The wiki's bugs section isn't up to date, I think. I don't think Meiling's Nap increases speed, but it does give it's other buff effect, and I think Momiji's accuracy up works as well, now. Not sure about SDM resident speed.
The japwiki's bug page is most likely up to date, but I can't recall it's url.
e:Found it, but the japwiki says the only nonfunctioning skills are Suika's binding thing, and one of Iku's Hagoromo ones. IIRC we've confirmed some of the other things aren't working right, though...
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Byakuren, i still dont know what to do with her
You can use her as a bulky offensive buffer, by going monk. She'll be able to do sufficient damage while also being able to pass buffs and easily recovering any damage she tanks.
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Okay so.
I got all of the Chen events from 4F to 9F, even went back and used the jp site to check where they were to see if I did get them.
But Ran's boss icon isn't spawning. Same with the icons that weaken her Shikigami.
Is there something I need to do other than Chen's events, or did I just get screwed out of a good character?
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Uh, I don't remember, but I think there were some Chen events before 4F right? Or maybe you didn't get all the Chen events. I think Chen has to be at a certain BP too.
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Uh, I don't remember, but I think there were some Chen events before 4F right? Or maybe you didn't get all the Chen events. I think Chen has to be at a certain BP too.
But according to the jp wiki, each Chen event unlocks the next in the chain.
If I was able to clear the 9F event, that means all of her events have been done, so Ran should show up.
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Well I'm guessing Chen either has to be a certain BP or you missed one more event.
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Got all the BP for yuuka event and defeated her (Funny how her sprite isnt changed), currently at 18F
Question aboutt he No Foe achievement: Do i need to have all 20 floors unlocked, and get rid of every FOE on every floor and prevent them from spawning? at how many trips they spawn
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they respawn in about 13 trips, and you're not doing that til the start of postgame cause it counts the one on 16F and that one is lvl 120. The final boss has a recommended level of 100 for example.
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The Final Boss has a level of 120 as well though (not the recommended level, but the level of the boss itself)
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Defeated Eiki (Whats up with the re-used sprite) Reached 19F thanks to Gambler flandre one shotting all 3 orbs, its freaking ridiculous :V, i hope some good chests remain in 19 and 20F, i got 2 keys spare and wont use them on lower floor chests
Now i officially got all characters bar renko/mari
EDIT
Reached 20F east and west, i got 10 awakening stones did i missed any? Currently grinding to reach challenge level, also took my time to search at every floor from 17F below in search of items
Also why we cant craft main equipment?
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no clue about the main equipment thing, maybe something in the future. 10 stones is all you get til post game.
Testing while laveatein grinding on F20 shows that blazing passive on multiple front liners do stack, the real question is how do they stack? (makes sense since the skill doesn't say it doesn't stack unlike most skills that do.)
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Defeated ame no murakumo, Game clear, Now into the post game content, Flandre got half usefull when boss casted his MP eating spell because i forgot to take off the main equip Staff, thus causing flandre to not regen MP at all during the fight, Kasen,Remilia,and flandre did the damage (30k hits each with Arm,Gunghir and flan normal command)
Stats after game. I expected to get the last item from the boss, seems like i was wrong,How do i trigger enchanced bosses to appear? example: wiki says there is one at F1 but i cant find it on the minimap
(http://i.imgur.com/ksdUrTz.png)
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Is it me, or did you get to post game quite fast?
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Once i get hooked to a game i play until i finish :V is -40 Hours really that low time? LoT 1 took me 100 hours to beat post game
Defeated passive worm foe, but still no 12 FOE achievement? i must have missed one somewhere, got my 11 stone of awakening on one of the extra areas
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Defeated ame no murakumo, Game clear, Now into the post game content, Flandre got half usefull when boss casted his MP eating spell because i forgot to take off the main equip Staff, thus causing flandre to not regen MP at all during the fight, Kasen,Remilia,and flandre did the damage (30k hits each with Arm,Gunghir and flan normal command)
Stats after game. I expected to get the last item from the boss, seems like i was wrong,How do i trigger enchanced bosses to appear? example: wiki says there is one at F1 but i cant find it on the minimap
I'm assuming you already figured out how to get the bosses to appear but I'll say it anyway: You need to beat the boss rush to do that.
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its every boss up to ame? not gonna try it for now. Still deciding sub class for orin, herbalist and toxicilogist seem like the most fitting
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Magician allows Orin to infinitely spam cat's walk, which can be highly useful for a post game boss or two for shock spam.
The boss rush is every non touhou boss in the game up to ame. (it uses the F20 divine relic bosses instead of the f12.)
The boss rush is in the upper east side of the final section of F20 behind a rock.
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Actually got some time on LoT2 yesterday (woo hoo), and ran smack dab into 9F Tenshi. I've got a strategy worked out for the next time I'm fortunate enough to play, but one question riddles my mind:
Does poison damage scale with attack power? That is, if I power up Wriggle's ATK stat, will more poison damage be inflicted from her attacks?
Thanks,
Veto
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Actually got some time on LoT2 yesterday (woo hoo), and ran smack dab into 9F Tenshi. I've got a strategy worked out for the next time I'm fortunate enough to play, but one question riddles my mind:
Does poison damage scale with attack power? That is, if I power up Wriggle's ATK stat, will more poison damage be inflicted from her attacks?
Thanks,
Veto
I believe poison deals a fixed % regardless of your attack,so tank wriggle is the best from what i sad seen
Cleared boss rush, trought was gonna be like LoT1 difficulty, went to kill the evil nut eater just to get wiped out instantly :derp:
I believe there was a rock that required 82 achievements, i cant find it now, unless it was my imagination
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its every boss up to ame? not gonna try it for now. Still deciding sub class for orin, herbalist and toxicilogist seem like the most fitting
Herbalist seems more like a subclass for a tank, so I don't see what you mean. Toxicologist is understandable, but imo, Gambler Rin is also very good. Cause it's not like Rin is gonna be kept in long anyway right?
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Defeated every enchanced boss up to Shadow knowledge, Had to think of a strategy to beat him before it got ether flare spam off, I used Aya,Orin,Sakuya and flandre. Using divine grandson advent, cat walk with the main equip that procs SHK,Luna dial and attack buff and finally starbow break
Why everyone says diva aya is broken? the only way i can that class working is by everyone speed being higher than the boss itself, wich doesn't sound feasible (that 6% bonus exp and less encounters is nice trough)
Current party and classes
Reimu-Enchanter-MND
Mokou-Enchanter-HP
Aya-Diva-SPD
Kasen-Monk-ATK
Orin-Toxicologist-HP
Utsuho-Sorcerer-MAG
Meiling-Herbalist-HP
Remilia-Trascendent/Strategist-ATK
Sakuya-Enchancer (Luna dial+Multiple attack trigger+Enchancer Heal trigger on buffs)-HP
Byakuren-Strategist-HP
Tenshi-No Stone yet, But i cant see a good subclass for her, so just trascendent/Strategist?DEF/MND hybrid
Gonna attempt shadow azure giant now, if i find it difficult gonna grind
(http://i.imgur.com/j3zcUB1.png)
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Why everyone says diva aya is broken? the only way i can that class working is by everyone speed being higher than the boss itself, wich doesn't sound feasible (that 6% bonus exp and less encounters is nice trough)
Simply put, Aya built with full speed gets turns fast. Give her the skill that buffs your front line's speed and they can catch up. Don't forget she also has a move that can INSTANTLY give a character a turn. Give that to someone like Reisen, who can debuff the enemy greatly, and you can make it so the boss will never get a turn while you're getting yours. Even better is this cuts out any actual grinding you'd need to do outside this.
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Since Byakuren should be at god buffing mode by now (and I'd recommend def/mnd build for her over HP, since with investment she's a great tank, perma-100% helps her stats a good chunk) I imagine Enhancer Sakuya would be getting a bit stale? Since you're running the SDM (minus patch) I'd just suggest switching her to an offense build, though, rather than say... dropping her.
Actually, now that I look more seriously, you have a lot of HP builds (I didn't notice until I realized your image was a mix of really low and crazy high hp counts). How does that work out? I never really seriously considered it since it'd be high-maintennance healing, but I suppose it might be pretty safe as long as you were keeping up said healing. (Plus Meiling's gatekeeper passive gives a hefty damage decrease) That also explains why you're still using Sakuya Enhancer, since % healing is a little more worthwhile on crazy high hp people.
Shadow Azure Giant is a bit of a nightmare but since you're already using Tenshi that probably helps a lot. I'm curious how hard you'll find the boss next to the lv120 FOE on the first floor of the purple stratum...
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Well, azure giant just mauled my party without mercy, orin cannot proc a single shk/psn/terror/hvy or anything on that thing, and my only chance to dealing damage is tenshi ripping all of its buffs,buffing the attackers and even them it can easily kill my fragile attackers with its ridiculous speed, gonna put that boss away for now and explore some of the secret areas/rocks that requires 6 Shadow kills or so
Well with most attacks flat out ignoring my Def/Mnd i decided to go full HP on most, Bar Reimu/Tenshi,even considering going full HP reimu now
How about Sakuya private square lv5+toxicologist? currently it stuns the boss for about....0.5 secs or so? Or even hexer, but hexer doesnt come with speed debuffs
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I don't think Private Square works with Toxicologist, unless they changed things. Even so, I'm not sure the stun would be long enough to be worth it. And Hexer is only a worthwhile subclass on people with Arm Twisting (or hina, for Hexer's Conversion since she's already debuffed and therefore gets buttloads of regen). Erm... did they rename/retranslate arm twisting, by the way? I never actually grabbed the latest patch since I've beaten the game :V
e:Hmm. Wiki says Sheer Force instead of ArmTwisting now.
Extremely few attacks ignore def/mnd, but the postgame bosses are definitely so strong that getting them down to manageable stuff takes the best of the tanks, or debuffing. HP might not be a bad way to go.
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Why everyone says diva aya is broken? the only way i can that class working is by everyone speed being higher than the boss itself, wich doesn't sound feasible (that 6% bonus exp and less encounters is nice trough)
This (http://youtu.be/K89mE4LnuSk) is why Diva Aya is broken. I didn't finish the fight because honestly it would have taken too long to do it at challenge level but you get the idea.
Edit: Private Square is unaffected by Toxicologist and is only more effective the more levels it has into it. The paralysis is only useful in very specific situations so I've never really used it save for one occasion where I messed up with Form Changes.
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Well, azure giant just mauled my party without mercy, orin cannot proc a single shk/psn/terror/hvy or anything on that thing, and my only chance to dealing damage is tenshi ripping all of its buffs,buffing the attackers and even them it can easily kill my fragile attackers with its ridiculous speed, gonna put that boss away for now and explore some of the secret areas/rocks that requires 6 Shadow kills or so
try useing Reimu as a sacrificial heal with final prayer to survive the first turn or two, and it should only buff at the start and at 50% hp so you should try to strip the buff at the start and then debuff, buff your damage dealers then spike it down with fire and spirit attack, (flandre has the strongest attack in the game and it's fire based...) at near 50% HP so that you don't have to deal with it for long. helps that the boss uses phys attacks mostly and Tenshi has the phys damage reducer skill.
Tenshi guardian is amusing thanks to the fact that speed debuffs trigger the kusanagi's former owner skill and that shield defence can help maintain the defense buffs while giving a speed debuff along with the other normal uses of guardian.
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Defeated azure giant,black goddess and orbs of time shadow, shredding guardian and aria singing guardian. now my party is in some kind of stale mate with magatama and mirror, only giga flare can damage, everything else deals 0 :ohdear: even with 80-100% buffs
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mirror is a bitch and a half cause it resists everything, don't use fire, cold, wind or nature as it has a star resistance to those, mys spirit and dark are better and psyical is the element it resists least but the best are charatchers with the skill 'sheer force' and/or defense piercing (this makes okku the one of the best ones as she is the only one with both a def piercing attack and sheer force). magatama is still weak to dark which makes it the easier one. You can try to fight 'c' if i remember but you should start exploring the extra areas for better gear, the entrances is by the F12 stairs.
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i cant find the stairs that lead to 9f extra where C is, i think i must have missed the switch or a rock, got to 10F extra but i cant find the downstairs
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Magatama and Mirror really need to be fought with either defense ignoring attacks/passives, and/or DEF-MND debuffs. Trust me, you CANNOT just overwhelm their defenses unless you want to hit like, lv180.
About the 9F thing, I remember the downstairs being pretty simple. You must have missed a pathway somewhere. Although... then again, in LoT2 it marks unexplored bits with red, so it'd be hard to miss that. Look for other things on the map that are probably things you forgot to walk past, instead?
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gonna make both sakuya and orin hexer, switched enchancer sakuya for hexer in previous bosses and worked like a charm, while orin was toxicoligist spaming HVY cloud and see how it turns out, remilia usually starts damaging them once last fortress reaches lv6-8, gonna recheck extra 10f later, if i cant find stairs gonna post a picture
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Hexer Rin makes a lot more sense than Toxicologist honestly. But I don't understand why you're gonna HP build on Rin though.
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He's using Orin as support and doesn't want her to die. Almost all of his support characters are in HP builds.
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Found "C" (Had to trigger the 3 switches above 10F Extra to get pass the rocks) and died, I am starting to wonder if its just my party having REALLY bad synergy with each other or i just plain suck :V
Average party level is 148
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It's mostly that you lack a good debuffer, hexer really isn't enough IMO, That and trying to do 'c' with out poison, debuffs or physical/nature damage is a really bad idea.
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My only formidable attackers are Remilia,Flandre,Kasen and Utsuho, 1 is super squishy, other 2 are semi squishy and remilia is a tank but cant deal damage like the other 3 unless last fortress is active
Changed kasen from monk and Utsuho from sorcerer to trascendant, gonna leave that boss for later, meanwhile gonna keep looking for drops and attempting magatama/mirror
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I heard somewhere that Transcendent Okuu is really good. I forget when. And I know for certain Transcendent Kasen is good, so stuff.
Besides Hina and Reisen, what other good debuffers are there?
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I don't think there's other good debuffers for every stat at the same time, but lots of people have good debuffs for a few of the stats. Hexer debuffs are kinda weak compared to the natural ones you can find (Because they only hit one stat and not for a huge amount) so it's only particularly worth using for Sheer Force users imo, of whom Kogasa is tankiest. Or maybe as a normal tank subclass if you didn't need anything else, but that'd probably only be worth it on the bosses you -have- to debuff mnd/def on, when lacking better options.
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Defeated Shadow Magatama/Mirror and Staring igmaruji, Only things left to do are explore every extra area for Loot, and prepare party for enchanced boss rush,BloodStained/Strengthen Bosses and Defeat Godly Ame no kuramuno
And finally have the self satisfaction of getting its item
Lets see where i can find light needle to craft zeus armor, i havent found a single one yet
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Neato~ Curious if you're planning on using either of Mari/Renko now that they're unlocked?
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I'd say Kasen's a decent debuffer, just because Higekiri's Cursed Arm inflicts the valuable Speed Debuff, and also has the Attack one added on along with the potential of inflicting Terror. Rinnosuke's a good offense debuffer with his 2 skills, and Komachi..well mediocre with Narrow Confines of Avici. Yeah it can debuff all stats but the effect really isn't amazing.
Really, past Hina and Reisen, there's no real amazing debuffer, There's good ones but that's it honestly. Unless we apply Subclasses, then it's a different story.
Edit: Unrelated, but thinking about who to give Magic Gems if I get any. I'm planning on giving most of the other gems to Nitori, but since she doesn't use Magic, I need to decide who would make good use of them.
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Rumia is good with them since she has low base-magic but good formulas. I had her damage jump noticeably.
I think the same goes for Cirno.
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Unrelated, but thinking about who to give Magic Gems if I get any. I'm planning on giving most of the other gems to Nitori, but since she doesn't use Magic, I need to decide who would make good use of them.
Most likely Rumia if you plan an useing her, Since on the lvl 31 test run of the F12 stairs boss, She had no wisdom gems on her, so it can only help.
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orin is not giving the results i wanted, so i might replace her back with ATK Momiji,sounds like a good idea? and if yes wich subclass? monk, warrior or guardian
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Edit: Unrelated, but thinking about who to give Magic Gems if I get any. I'm planning on giving most of the other gems to Nitori, but since she doesn't use Magic, I need to decide who would make good use of them.
By Magic gems you mean Wisdom Gems. Because Magic gems buff MP, Wisdom buffs the Magic stat. (Yeah, a bit confusing.)
@ DarkAtma
Imo, you should try Rin as a gambler before you put her away. Otherwise, I'd recommend Monk or Warrior Momiji. Guardian I don't see as being good at all, because even though Momiji is a 'tank', none of her skills are defensive, they're all offensive. So you might as well make her a bulky attacker. So probably Monk.
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Rumia looks to be a good choice then, especially if I need(Probably will) her for 12F. Any other choices? I'm definitely going to need one for endgame, so unless Rumia can do the job there as well, I'll need an alternate choice as well.
(I also said Magic Gems since it'd be easier for me to just mention the stat instead of the actual name)
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Gambler Rumia can do decent damage to the final boss, because of the fact that the dark moon ignores the bosses defense buffs, But I doubt She can carry you through the entire fight, for one thing the final boss doesn't have the human typing like the F12 boss does. secondly, You got yuyuko by that point which is a competitor for the wisdom gems. Thirdly, The final boss has too much health to cheese scripting like you can with the F12 boss. But by that point you got diva, so the point is mostly moot, unless you plan on not using it.
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Defeated the second sun and Great "C"
My hands were shaking and nervous while preparing the multi hit, had to make Meiling/Tenshi/Reimu and sakuya toxicologist to poison all of them, while remilia did spears to hasten the process while utsuho and kasen ocassionaly came and launched some AOE moves, it was so irritating waiting for a window of opportunity so switch kasen in and kill all at once with the Echo of the nine forest gods
EDIT
Everyone did 0 Damage on Desire Eater, Utsuho did 0 with 100% buffs, remilia did 20k Spear with 100% buffs, I guess its time to grind?
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try using shock, cold and nature on desire demon.
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Defeated guardian of the crystals, basically was Buffing flandre+Herb Of awakening+Leavetine to wipe off 3 crystals from the start, Only desire eater left
Its getting so annoying to decide on who to use this Quartz charm, Its basically useless to me, If i unequip something i will lose good elemental/ailment resistance or lose something like 100% attack, wich wont be worth the extra 20% damage them
Current level/Stats,Only notable enemies left:Deside Eater/Enchanced Boss rush,Godly amaterasu Blade (cant remember name right), I could just reach lv200 and stomp the boss, but that would be boring like nuts, so i will limit myself to not level anymore, havent leveled since defeating the second sun
(http://i.imgur.com/y9XLv7t.png)
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Defeated guardian of the crystals, basically was Buffing flandre+Herb Of awakening+Leavetine to wipe off 3 crystals from the start, Only desire eater left
Its getting so annoying to decide on who to use this Quartz charm, Its basically useless to me, If i unequip something i will lose good elemental/ailment resistance or lose something like 100% attack, wich wont be worth the extra 20% damage them
Current level/Stats,Only notable enemies left:Deside Eater/Enchanced Boss rush,Godly amaterasu Blade (cant remember name right), I could just reach lv200 and stomp the boss, but that would be boring like nuts, so i will limit myself to not level anymore, havent leveled since defeating the second sun
I'd say a good challenge level for the final boss would be 170, so you're right around the point where you should be able to handle the fight in my opinion.
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Its getting so annoying to decide on who to use this Quartz charm, Its basically useless to me, If i unequip something i will lose good elemental/ailment resistance or lose something like 100% attack, wich wont be worth the extra 20% damage them
Well, it increases durability along with your offense, so it'd be for someone who wants both of those things. One fifth of damage dealt to you getting cut, without losing much if any offensive power, is probably worth considering for Kasen or Utsuho. Not really sure how durable Utsuho is.
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Attempted Enchanced boss rush and the stupid mirror stoped me cold in my tracks, time to use my last tome to reset momiji and replace her, the people i were considering were:
Marisa:Because i used her most of the game until i recruited ran
Kanako: I heard she is better now, i guess i wont have to worry about her bulk if i go full MAG?
Kaguya:If shes a monster like in LoT1 with rainbow danmaku sure, i will just spam it+divine grandson advent agaisnt the mirror, however if shes hit shes dead for sure i guess
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Why are you using a tome of reincarnation on Momiji, DarkAtma?
Also, I thought mirror was resistant to spirit, no?
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Mirror's shadow is resistant to bloody everything but resists fire, cold, wind and nature the most, so if your gonna junk momiji, marisa or kaguya is the best option out of those, marisa has sheer force and the mystic damage booster, ( which can help okku giga flare) but you're gonna need to drop the bosses mind to do decent damage. Kaguya doesn't need the mind drop but she gonna hit the bosses high spirit resistance. with her best spell. kanako is the worst option for the mirror cause her best spells hit the bosses star ranked resistances and she doesn't have defense piercing.
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Why are you using a tome of reincarnation on Momiji, DarkAtma?
Also, I thought mirror was resistant to spirit, no?
To reap the skill points/Gems away to use on my last character, Decided to pick marisa beause kaguya rainbow danmaku doesnt ignore MND like in Lot1, Cleared Enchanced boss rush And Desire Eater, Only Enchanced ame no murakumo remains
Final party, Might grind and equalize everyone level at 190-200, managed to take off both arms but had already lost 2/3 of the party by that time,Highest parameter i got in skill points is 210, there arent liliths like monsters here that give loads of money :derp:
(http://i.imgur.com/J3ZrYzq.png)
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You can grind money in the area around Ame-No on those FOE style mobs. Just take Nazrin with you, pump her magic stat and have Kourin & Komachi and enough people to equip some Violent-1-Rupee-kun.
Then get the TP of your frontline as high as possible and go for the chain-boni. I managed to get 300k per run like that once Nazrin managed to reliably oneshot everything there.
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Party ready,Equips ready, Classes and Etc, Gonna attempt Enhanced final boss again later, Leaving the save file in case someone needed a cleared game up to the last floor
Average party level is 194, Looks like i am gonna clear is 40 hours earlier than Touhou labyrinth post-disk, i guess i will wait for the Lot 2 post disk
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@ DarkAtma
Well Kaguya's skill ability allows her to ignore 90% of mind, so Rainbow Danmaku doesn't need to ignore, besides, she probably won't deal damage to it with Rainbow Danmaku anyway due to high spirit resistance. Her Nature attack will deal some decent damage, I'm sure.
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Well Kaguya's skill ability allows her to ignore 90% of mind, so Rainbow Danmaku doesn't need to ignore, besides, she probably won't deal damage to it with Rainbow Danmaku anyway due to high spirit resistance. Her Nature attack will deal some decent damage, I'm sure.
Not on mirror's shadow, It resists everything except silence, and it has a star resist in nature, as such the mirror's shadow is one of the most painful fights in the game cause unlike magatama's shadow, No weakness to exploit means you gotta level near the challenge level just to damage the bloody thing, much less kill it.
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Game Clear! :getdown: , only challenge left are the 60 foes kill/Have no FOE symbols on map, will do those someday, Here is my opinion compared to LoT 1 difficulty:
Mirror of the high god/darkness: Biggest son of a gun i could face, Not only it has stupid high resistance to everything, It can also nuke your fragile attackers with either CLD/FIRE Nukes, possibly that boss that gave me the biggest headache
The Great "C": You dont know how nerve-wrecking was to get all of them to low hp via poison and getting a window of oppurtiny to sneak an attacker and kill all at once, otherwise they would just all resurrect again
Blue Orchid: My attackers could not pierce its defense, i dont know if it was just me, But it lowers it defense/buffs speed after some turns? Otherwise for what was shell dissolve for?
Desire Eater: Not only it can use scourge anytime, It also has stupid high defense,its appearance is frightening like serpent of chaos
Bosses with HP regeneration: Some were tolerable like the black goddess because it had low defense, But Higher magatama/Ame no murakumo? Made it more fun actually
Time warp gimmick: I totally didnt expected that kind of attack, makes you test your luck :3
Summons:Unlike LoT1 (Only reisen i believe), I didnt expected bosses to summon stuff, made battles really exciting Like Alice/Ran/Murakumo/Tentacle monster
All in All i still dont know wich was harder in difficulty, LoT1 difficulty was about Stats,Damage Races And "Kill it before it unleashes its concentrate move and wipe your party" (I Am looking at you Mannnosuke/Yuuka/Utsuho/Eiki/Beast of centaureas, I Cheesed out Winner with renko PAR) The only bosses that didnt took damage were the Physical/Magical Invulnerable hibachi
In LoT2 the Bosses cheapness varies from Stupid high defense, to regeneration,Physical attacks that cut your hp until out of battle,Random row switch and summons
Overall i Enjoyed LoT2 more,Class customization,Varied tactics dealing with bosses Leavetin the cheap bastard ones and the navigation interface showing where events/items/unexplored close tiles are makes it better, However i still think LoT1 boss music was way better, also youmu And manly alice theme
Godly No murakumo provides 160% to all stats, not 128% like the wiki states
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there's a diffrence between the mirror of the high god( the level 88 mirror) and the mirror of darkness(level 135~?), which is the resistances, the mirror of the high god is still weak to cold and nature while the mirror of darkness resists everything.
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So, is Suwako supposed to be able to do 100000+ damage to Yukari?
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@ Aminosa
Yes. Especially if she's gambler. I remember hearing that Gambler Suwako's power is nearly on par with Gambler Flandre. Gotta try it out.
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Huh. Didn't expect that. I'm not even using subclasses in this run. Earth Creation and Believers of Moriya help her damage a ton though.
Might as well ask while I'm here. In my first run, I used Utsuho. But the whole time I got meh tier damage from her. Be it from staying in launching UNR one after the other or buffing her to throw a big shot of Gigs Flare. Even Sheer Force seems to just go 'don't feel like piercing affinity much'. I tried making her Gambler but no luck. Does Transcendant help increase her damage? 'Cause I'd rather not have her be dead weight (haven't finished all the post game bosses yet). If it helps, I gave her a full MAG build. Though I was thinking maybe you're supposed to either increase her defenses+affinities or give her an HP build so she can stay in.
Speaking of HP build, my god Satori can HP tank. And even a little better than Komachi in my experience.
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Okuu works very well as a Stay-in with high HP and some Mp-regeneration equip. Her damage has to ramp up and defense/mind are worth less on her for obvious reasons.
But she really doesn't do much before postgame. In postgame though she was quite good for me.
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I've been lurking on this thread for a while now, finally cleared the game yesterday so I figured I'll post some thoughts about the game.
This is by far the hardest ATB based game I've ever played, forcing a lot of customization for a lot of the bosses. I managed to beat all the bosses at challenge level, for main game the hardest ones to stand out were the magatama/mirror at 12F. Rumia managed to kill the mirror with a Dark Side of the Moon dealing 1,7k damage when I only had her and my tank (Komachi) left in my party. That felt pretty awesome. :D
For postgame, I came up with a party that took the most advantage of Flandre's nuking power: Sanae (herbalist for Herb of Awakening), Aya (magician for MP support), Yukari (monk for Fast Dash) and Flandre (gambler for ...you know). When Fast Dash on Yukari procced, I was able to get both Miracle Fruit and Herb of Awakening on Flandre before the ATB bars even moved, and if Aya with a speed buff was faster than the boss, I could get in another attack with Flandre before the boss's first turn. All in all, there were only 3 bosses that weren't killed by this or shortly after (or with a different nuker).
First one was Poison Wasp's Shadow, too much health and mind to nuke it fast enough, had to go the shock route for it.
Second one was Mirror of Darkness. With high resists and MP drain on first turn, I had to go the tanky route to fight it. Byakuren, Reimu, Reisen and Eiki had a very easy time against it though, with Eiki hitting for around 80k with Last Judgment.
The most dreadful fight was, as DarkAtma mentioned as well, the Great "C". Since it resists fire and Laevetain was pretty much the only multi-target nuke I had, I was forced to use the tanky poison spam setup. That fight was a bit too heavy on RNG for my liking with the HP drain attack too often followed instantly by a (weak) multitarget attack. Sweeping the last 10% off their HP with Laevetain felt pretty good though. :D
[attach=1]
Now I could go run around the Tree for the remaining 300 battles in search of the enemy I don't have in my bestiary. Any idea on how to check which one I could possibly be missing? Or even the floor I'm missing it on?
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Game Clear! :getdown: , only challenge left are the 60 foes kill/Have no FOE symbols on map, will do those someday, Here is my opinion compared to LoT 1 difficulty:
Mirror of the high god/darkness: Biggest son of a gun i could face, Not only it has stupid high resistance to everything, It can also nuke your fragile attackers with either CLD/FIRE Nukes, possibly that boss that gave me the biggest headache
The Great "C": You dont know how nerve-wrecking was to get all of them to low hp via poison and getting a window of oppurtiny to sneak an attacker and kill all at once, otherwise they would just all resurrect again
Blue Orchid: My attackers could not pierce its defense, i dont know if it was just me, But it lowers it defense/buffs speed after some turns? Otherwise for what was shell dissolve for?
Desire Eater: Not only it can use scourge anytime, It also has stupid high defense,its appearance is frightening like serpent of chaos
Bosses with HP regeneration: Some were tolerable like the black goddess because it had low defense, But Higher magatama/Ame no murakumo? Made it more fun actually
Time warp gimmick: I totally didnt expected that kind of attack, makes you test your luck :3
Summons:Unlike LoT1 (Only reisen i believe), I didnt expected bosses to summon stuff, made battles really exciting Like Alice/Ran/Murakumo/Tentacle monster
All in All i still dont know wich was harder in difficulty, LoT1 difficulty was about Stats,Damage Races And "Kill it before it unleashes its concentrate move and wipe your party" (I Am looking at you Mannnosuke/Yuuka/Utsuho/Eiki/Beast of centaureas, I Cheesed out Winner with renko PAR) The only bosses that didnt took damage were the Physical/Magical Invulnerable hibachi
In LoT2 the Bosses cheapness varies from Stupid high defense, to regeneration,Physical attacks that cut your hp until out of battle,Random row switch and summons
Overall i Enjoyed LoT2 more,Class customization,Varied tactics dealing with bosses Leavetin the cheap bastard ones and the navigation interface showing where events/items/unexplored close tiles are makes it better, However i still think LoT1 boss music was way better, also youmu And manly alice theme
Godly No murakumo provides 160% to all stats, not 128% like the wiki states
Shredding Amnesiari is hands down, the worse boss fight for me. Even with Eiki and Kaguya, I could not for the longest time, figure out a way to beat it.
Uh, you forgot about Alice and Maribel as far as summon bosses in LoT1 go. I also feel like there's one more boss that summons things that I'm forgetting about (not necessarily a Touhou boss).
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I'd say LoT2 is a lot less difficult than LoT1, partially because of the wide variety of tactics we can bring into a fight. But I honestly think that its less difficult because its not "Oh crap, the boss focused. I have to throw everything I can at it now unless I want to start the fight all over" like LoT1 was.
The "cheapness" of LoT2 you mentioned was difficulty that was spread over the course of the entire battle. It wasn't about having a single defining point in the battle where if I screwed up, I'd lose.
"Oh the boss has really high defenses? I just have to take my time whittling it down or bring in defense ignoring characters / abilities."
"The boss regenerates? I just have to spend the early part of the battle buffing my attackers up for consistent damage output."
"The boss damages my max HP? Okay I have this many turns before the max HP reduction ends up killing me. How efficient can I be with my turns?"
"The boss switches up the front line randomly? Then I can't rely on glass cannons to do the job. Maybe I should respec some characters or bring in certain other ones."
And this might be just me, but I felt like the boss fights in LoT2 could be beaten on the first try blind (though I think the Desire Eating Demon fight might be an exception to this). In LoT1 however, there were some bosses where you absolutely had to go in with a strategy, or at least go in knowing what the boss was capable of already.
The Hibachi Twins (and Bloody Papa while we're at it) weren't invulnerable to Physical / Magical attacks. They just had sky high stats for Defense and Mind respectively. Eiki and Kaguya didn't care at all about their "invulnerability".
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This is obviously just my opinion but I definitely don't agree that LoT1 boss music was better. Aside from the Bloodstained Seal boss fights, Rinnosuke's fight, and Maribel's fight, the music was far too action oriented for what was supposed to be a strategic game in my opinion. Not that I minded though because the music was still good. I just don't feel like it fit what the game was supposed to be which is why I feel LoT2 boss music is better.
Now I could go run around the Tree for the remaining 300 battles in search of the enemy I don't have in my bestiary. Any idea on how to check which one I could possibly be missing? Or even the floor I'm missing it on?
I don't really have a good idea on how you can check this, other than having someone with a completed bestiary compare theirs with yours to see what you're missing. Since writing it out would be a pain, just take multiple screen shots of your bestiary and upload them and I'll offer to tell you at the very least what stratum the enemy is on. I likely won't be able to remember which specific floor the enemy was on though.
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I don't really have a good idea on how you can check this, other than having someone with a completed bestiary compare theirs with yours to see what you're missing. Since writing it out would be a pain, just take multiple screen shots of your bestiary and upload them and I'll offer to tell you at the very least what stratum the enemy is on. I likely won't be able to remember which specific floor the enemy was on though.
Thanks I might do that if I don't figure it out myself. I did run away from all the enemies while exploring the extra areas and only did ~10 battles afterwards in each map to get bestiary data, so it's possible some rare monster is left in there (I did kill dragon larva though).
EDIT: found the missing one, Flame Barrel at 15F extra depths, now I just need 280 more battles...
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And this might be just me, but I felt like the boss fights in LoT2 could be beaten on the first try blind (though I think the Desire Eating Demon fight might be an exception to this). In LoT1 however, there were some bosses where you absolutely had to go in with a strategy, or at least go in knowing what the boss was capable of already.
Mirror of darkness is a problem cause unlike the other two incarnations, it has no weakness,, so if you go in with a full nature and cold crew expecting it to be like the previous two, you suddenly find it now has a star resist in both cold and nature. It doesn't help that every other boss shadow basicly has the same resists as you fought it last time (think the only other change is the attack orb of the orbs of darkness now has a star resist in death.)
'c' and the orbs boss kinda also kinda requires you to know that the boss was capable of respawning themselfs. Komachi will ruin you if you didn't perpare (who thinks, let's make youmu equipped with a light crystal my tank for the F3 stairs boss fight.) the F12 stairs boss kinda required you to know it resists has changed from the last two fights with it, (right then monks at the ready and... what she resists nature now?).
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Lets see if i can beat kaitani in challenge clears, yesterday did the 60 game hours, No FOE icon on map and 200 bestiary entries, only left is 3000 battles and kill 60 foes
If my memory serves right, Alice boss in LoT could not summon her dolls back, i forgot maribel (my bad),Bloody papa was invulnerable to magic moves (Bar piercing stuff like Rainbow danmaku/Eiki piercing move)
I tried setting the encounter rate on F21 to 100%, upon entering battle there are no enemies at all, at least is nice to know they made anti-crash preventions in case that happened
I could post my bestiary list if anybody needed it, just the common enemies of course, as i am pretty sure everyone will fight all the bosses (Just make sure to kill their summons and not wipe the boss in a single move) i could keep farming Dragon bane/whiskers and rare drops to keep crafting more zeus armor/genji glove, but dragon bane is a rare drop from a rare enemy in 16F extra, so i dont feel like doing it, gonna edit this post with bestiary pictures from common enemies later
EDIT:Turns out i already had killed 59 foes, Only one left is win 3000 battles, 2437 so far,Not feeling like going to F1 and pressing attack on remilia
(http://i.imgur.com/d8YrI9D.png)
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Got my last battles on 20F depths killing the single mobs with all my nukers, 2 runs with my personal record chain of 145 battles. Took me about an hour and made 1,3 million money and 25 levels. So now I'm rich again and way overleveled. Compared to DarkAtma I really took the scenic route it seems, game clock says 90:28. :D
New Game+ with all characters unlocked is quite tempting now, could try some interesting synergy parties (even though the synergy skills are partly bugged it seems).
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How can there be a difference of 30 hours? i swear i explored every (or almost) every tile on every floor :V
Here is my bestiary, I wanna check if anybody got one of those unique mobs i dont got, or viceversa
(http://i.imgur.com/EmqsB8X.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Av2UozJ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/GYeRd0J.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/PUwy5yJ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/5SZzfkE.png)
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I switched my party setup around a lot, so I ended up spending a lot of time setting up characters, removing/setting up gear and such. For some reason I also always removed all gear from all characters and set them up again to prepare for the upcoming boss fight. Additionally, I grinded to lvl 30+ to beat the 6F stairs boss, which added another hour or two. All in all, I guess all the little things add up to a lot of total time. :D
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How can there be a difference of 30 hours? i swear i explored every (or almost) every tile on every floor :V
Here is my bestiary, I wanna check if anybody got one of those unique mobs i dont got, or viceversa
Using this file I got, you're missing Daphnid Pack, Red Beetle, and Magma Beetle. Daphnid should be somewhere on 7-9 while the latter two would be in 13-15's Depth area. Since your Beastiary has 2 enemies this file I have is missing, I'd say you're only 1 away from getting the achievement.
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i already got the 200 bestiary achievement, posted it on the last page,gonna note up those ones i am missing
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i already got the 200 bestiary achievement, posted it on the last page,gonna note up those ones i am missing
Oh then I guess it's 203 enemies in the game. Weird number I think.
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Using this file I got, you're missing Daphnid Pack, Red Beetle, and Magma Beetle. Daphnid should be somewhere on 7-9 while the latter two would be in 13-15's Depth area. Since your Beastiary has 2 enemies this file I have is missing, I'd say you're only 1 away from getting the achievement.
I assume by Magma Beetle you mean Magma Barrel, since the latter was missing from the bestiary pics. Also, from that list I seem to be missing 2 enemies from the desert area. So 203 does indeed seem to be the final number, meaning you can get the achievement before killing the enhanced last boss.
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Seem to be missing great tree's pearl oyster, found on floor 5.
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i didnt knew youmu had regeneration nor that yugi had a skill to boost physical damage, why its so hard for me to make everything fit in a 12 spots party
(is conflicted) how it was to use youmu/yuugi/yuuka trought the game? might do a NG+ replacing mokou/byakuren with youmu/yuuka
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Did some quick nerd math, and it looks like the bonus from each "level up" point is 3%, but the wiki below is saying 4%. Am I losing my mind, or perhaps this changed in one of the patches?
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Gameplay
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i didnt knew youmu had regeneration nor that yugi had a skill to boost physical damage, why its so hard for me to make everything fit in a 12 spots party (is conflicted) how it was to use youmu/yuugi/yuuka trought the game? might do a NG+ replacing mokou/byakuren with youmu/yuuka
Ye, those character certainly hold their niches. Youmu isn't really a particular hard hitter, but because of regen she could make a good bulky attacker. Yuugi is just demolish shet. Break anything that doesn't resist you, and if possible, give her 100% atk and she will really break stuff. She is also very bulky on the defense side. So a subclass like Monk or Warrior is good for her. Yuuka does good DPS and can provide very good support to a poison comp thanks to beauty of nature. And funny thing about Yuuka is that she also has high attack (her base atk is actually higher than her mag), so you could give her a subclass like warrior or monk and it would work just fine.
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Mirror of darkness is a problem cause unlike the other two incarnations, it has no weakness,, so if you go in with a full nature and cold crew expecting it to be like the previous two, you suddenly find it now has a star resist in both cold and nature. It doesn't help that every other boss shadow basicly has the same resists as you fought it last time (think the only other change is the attack orb of the orbs of darkness now has a star resist in death.)
'c' and the orbs boss kinda also kinda requires you to know that the boss was capable of respawning themselfs. Komachi will ruin you if you didn't perpare (who thinks, let's make youmu equipped with a light crystal my tank for the F3 stairs boss fight.) the F12 stairs boss kinda required you to know it resists has changed from the last two fights with it, (right then monks at the ready and... what she resists nature now?).
I'll have to concede that the Mirror of Darkness probably can't be beaten blind but some of the others are still fairly doable.
'C' and the Orbs: You didn't need to know that they were capable of respawning themselves. You kill some of them, they respawn, and then you reevaluate your strategy mid battle. Not exactly hard at all.
Tenshi's fight is the same idea. You brought in a bunch of Nature damage, you notice she resists it. Nature can't be the only source of damage you have and so you can easily adjust mid battle for it. If it truly is the only source of damage you have, I have to question your team composition strategy. Even if you went in thinking, "She probably has the same resists as when I fought her the other time, meaning she doesn't resist Fire, Cold, Wind and Nature" You'd still have 3 other elements to effectively damage her. You wouldn't have access to the piercing properties of Iron Mountain Charge but it can't be hard to make do without it since you'd have come in already prepared to debuff her, considering what you saw during the last time you fought her.
Komachi's fight is another fair point however. Getting your tank Deathed towards the beginning of the fight is brutal. And since most people likely won't memorize the status resistances of their party members, they likely wouldn't be able to put someone who is naturally Death resistant in the front line to tank the hits.
That said, Komachi is the first major boss fight where you'll have access to a full party of 12 characters or very close to it so maybe the difficulty spike compared to 2F bosses is warranted. You can have a total of 14 characters by the time the Komachi fight rolls around.
It's safe to assume you'll likely only have 11 though, as Parsee requires you to have 12 to recruit her, Nitori requires you to craft 10 items which not everyone will have done, and Kasen requires you to have game over'd 12 times which is also something not everyone will have done.
If my memory serves right, Alice boss in LoT could not summon her dolls back, i forgot maribel (my bad),Bloody papa was invulnerable to magic moves (Bar piercing stuff like Rainbow danmaku/Eiki piercing move)
You're right, Alice and Maribel don't summon their minions back. But neither does Murakumo and you included him in your list of summon boss fights so that's why I included Alice and Maribel.
Again, Bloody Papa and the Hibachi Twins were not invulnerable. They just had Defense and Mind stats that were so high which made only Defense and Mind ignoring moves work against their "invulnerability" unless you grinded a ton. Eiki is a physical attacker and could damage Bloody Papa anyway.
Hibachi#2 and Bloody Papa had 1 million Mind while Hibachi#1 had 1 million Defense. They never were invulnerable since you could get the stats to over come such high numbers but they might as well have been invulnerable unless you wanted to grind for hours.
Oh then I guess it's 203 enemies in the game. Weird number I think.
Wow... that really IS a weird number. I kinda assumed my bestiary page was complete seeing as all that was left was the enhanced final boss and when i killed it in my other save file, I got the 200 bestiary achievement. Welp time to look at what I'm missing and possibly where.
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Replaying, on Floor 12. Now I'm wondering how the hell I defeated Mirror without using someone like Kaguya. Party is nearing the 50's and I'm having issues. Probably just been a while but I'll figure it out.
On the subject, this is making me wonder about my speedrun. How exactly am I going to take these guys down? It's definitely going to become a Switchfest to get Kaguya in and out without dying, but it also looks like I'm going to have to do a bit of grinding for it as well. And I mean like 15-20 levels of grinding.
Oh and tried to mess with Death abusing Sakuya, I could not for the life of me get it to work after so many attempts. It eventually got to the point where I tried to off Remilia so I could just deal with Sakuya by herself...bad idea, wasn't expecting Lunar Clock spam. Still won though cause Hina shrugs off damage.
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How can there be a difference of 30 hours? i swear i explored every (or almost) every tile on every floor :V
Here is my bestiary, I wanna check if anybody got one of those unique mobs i dont got, or viceversa
Using this file I got, you're missing Daphnid Pack, Red Beetle, and Magma Beetle. Daphnid should be somewhere on 7-9 while the latter two would be in 13-15's Depth area. Since your Beastiary has 2 enemies this file I have is missing, I'd say you're only 1 away from getting the achievement.
He's also missing Delicious Autumn Taste from Floor 9 I believe.
[attach=1]
I found out I'm missing Dragon Larva and Spirit of Shadow so if someone else has them, I'd appreciate it if they could tell me their levels so I know generally where to look for them.
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Spirit of Shadow is 66. I don't have Dragon Larva so I can't help with that.
In this case, The number is probably around 210 maybe for enemies, which is less awkward.
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Spirit of Shadow is 66. I don't have Dragon Larva so I can't help with that.
In this case, The number is probably around 210 maybe for enemies, which is less awkward.
I have 199 enemies, not counting the two I missed and three from the enhanced final boss so 204? Which is still an awkward number which leads me to believe that there are still more that I'm missing.
And thanks for the info, time to look for Spirit of Shadow now.
Edit: Found Spirit of Shadow, and I've deduced from DarkAtma's earlier post that Dragon Larva is likely in 16F Extra area so I've been looking there.
Edit2: Yup Dragon Larva is in 16F Extra. But man on man, having an enemy that drops Dragon's Manes.... Guess I know where I'm farming after I farm up stat gems for everyone.
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i dont think farming a rare drop (dragon mane) from a even rare encounter (dragon larva) sounds feasible :V , so the final bestiary should be around 205-210 from the posts i have seen, would be nice to know if unique enemies are on every floor(1,2,3) or scattered randomly (1,3,4,7Etc)
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Tenshi's fight is the same idea. You brought in a bunch of Nature damage, you notice she resists it. Nature can't be the only source of damage you have and so you can easily adjust mid battle for it. If it truly is the only source of damage you have, I have to question your team composition strategy. Even if you went in thinking, "She probably has the same resists as when I fought her the other time, meaning she doesn't resist Fire, Cold, Wind and Nature" You'd still have 3 other elements to effectively damage her. You wouldn't have access to the piercing properties of Iron Mountain Charge but it can't be hard to make do without it since you'd have come in already prepared to debuff her, considering what you saw during the last time you fought her.
You don't wanna debuff tenshi's defense below 0% in the f12 fight cause then she spam violent motherland for as long as her defense is debuffed.
(her defense is still good enough that you're gonna need to buff probably, then you get sworded.) (and don't tell me just don't debuff lower then 0%, you know how hard that is?)
(the F9 stairs fight with her is still a hard point cause of the fact you can get sworded.)
Komachi's fight is another fair point however. Getting your tank Deathed towards the beginning of the fight is brutal. And since most people likely won't memorize the status resistances of their party members, they likely wouldn't be able to put someone who is naturally Death resistant in the front line to tank the hits.
That said, Komachi is the first major boss fight where you'll have access to a full party of 12 characters or very close to it so maybe the difficulty spike compared to 2F bosses is warranted. You can have a total of 14 characters by the time the Komachi fight rolls around.
It's safe to assume you'll likely only have 11 though, as Parsee requires you to have 12 to recruit her, Nitori requires you to craft 10 items which not everyone will have done, and Kasen requires you to have game over'd 12 times which is also something not everyone will have done.
This isn't mentioning that komachi has ferrage in the deep fog, her row based death effect, so not only does the tank need death resistance, everyone on the front line does cause otherwise, you may just lose slots 3 and 4 to a death effect or even worse if you didn't perpare, your entire front line (she can also use it more then once unlike narrow confines). it rare that she uses it but it adds an element of RNG to the fight.
there's also the alluvial kadama on F10 i think? (tends to run away.)
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I think it would just be easier to Post a list of unique enemies everyone got and on what floor, maybe that way we can find the total of them/bestiary (memory is abit foggy so correct me if these are not unique enemies)
Walking Unripe Fruit
Ferocious Ghostie
Lazulite Sword devil
Twin Coral Gem
Silver Plated Shark
Seeds of the giant tree
Beam Barrel
Large Sandfish
Rock Crystal
Balas Ruby swordsman
Large Lump Of Flames
Walking Ripe Fruit
Golden Mushroom
Dragon Larva
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You don't wanna debuff tenshi's defense below 0% in the f12 fight cause then she spam violent motherland for as long as her defense is debuffed.
(her defense is still good enough that you're gonna need to buff probably, then you get sworded.) (and don't tell me just don't debuff lower then 0%, you know how hard that is?)
Actually, because she'll only use Violent Motherland, it makes it easier to deal with her. Her ATB gauge is set to a decent amount to have your tank switch in and out your attackers safely. Alternatively, you can give your character's a decent amount of Nature resist to make it not be a threat.
Edit: Bah. Last night I left the game running so I could get the Time Achievements for some extra money, only I was on a different save that doesn't need it, and so I saved over my file and lost a bit of progress. Blech. Least I have one at the end of Floor 10 but still, ugh.
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I think it would just be easier to Post a list of unique enemies everyone got and on what floor, maybe that way we can find the total of them/bestiary (memory is abit foggy so correct me if these are not unique enemies)
Walking Unripe Fruit
Ferocious Ghostie
Lazulite Sword devil
Twin Coral Gem
Silver Plated Shark
Seeds of the giant tree
Beam Barrel
Large Sandfish
Rock Crystal
Balas Ruby swordsman
Large Lump Of Flames
Walking Ripe Fruit
Golden Mushroom
Dragon Larva
add great tree's pearl oyster (a good place to find them is in the little passage that connects the two halfs of F6), alluvial kadama (looks like a golden desert kadama.) Daphnid Pack and Delicious Autumn Taste. ( both of which might be found on F9, I found the pack, yet to find the autumn taste.)
remove beam barrel and seeds of the great tree, (rather common in the extra areas of f8 and f9.)
Actually, because she'll only use Violent Motherland, it makes it easier to deal with her. Her ATB gauge is set to a decent amount to have your tank switch in and out your attackers safely. Alternatively, you can give your character's a decent amount of Nature resist to make it not be a threat.
Not gonna help if you're doing her blind as it's gonna come as a suprise, and if your tanks don't have mondo defense or high nature resistance, they are gonna die quickly too, (unless you're using hina.)
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I started a new run on Hard Mode, using characters that aren't normally available until much later in the game and have some synergy skills. Mostly interesting to see how many bosses I can cheese through with team SDM. :P
The party seems to have little to no defense ignoring spell cards / skills, so I'll probably hit a brick wall at 12F if not sooner. Golem FOE sure didn't stand a chance though. :D
I'm up to 3F stairs boss now.
[attach=1]
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Sakuya has that defense ignoring skill, found it underwhelming even with full ATK build, I dont know about patchy since i didnt used her :derp: i should test gambler patchy or something
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The party seems to have little to no defense ignoring spell cards / skills, so I'll probably hit a brick wall at 12F if not sooner.
Flan's Starbow Break with full SDM bonus will probably be able to punch through Tenshi. Meiling's Mountain Breaker ignores some def, but I'm not sure how much or how good atk-meiling is? I remember someone else using her like that, though, and her Gatekeeper skill encourages using her as a bulky attacker. Even if it doesn't currently grant the massive speed boost...
Sakuya's piercing passive is good for all those enemies that have next to no HP, but nigh-insurmountable def/mnd. For bosses? Not so much... I'm not sure if it increases damage dealt on enemies where you already deal above like 15% potential damage, though.
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If memory serves right it did about 2k without attack investment, and about 10k after that, thats why i made her a switcher/buffer/semi tanker mostly (That was against strengthen bosses/Ame No MuraKumo) But yeah flandre starbow break can make holes trough the sturdiest mobs, If she deals 0 just buff her and watch it taking 1/4-2/4 of the boss hp most of the times
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Sakuya's piercing passive is good for all those enemies that have next to no HP, but nigh-insurmountable def/mnd. For bosses? Not so much... I'm not sure if it increases damage dealt on enemies where you already deal above like 15% potential damage, though.
I can second this, Sakuya was amazing at clearing floor mobs with Soul Sculpture. Killing Doll, as its description says, will do pretty nice damage if you manage to get past the enemies' defense. When I was getting those last battles at 20F depths, it was one of the most heavy-hitting spell cards I had. But since most bosses have pretty crazy high defenses, you're better off looking elsewhere for damage output.
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I have 199 enemies, not counting the two I missed and three from the enhanced final boss so 204? Which is still an awkward number which leads me to believe that there are still more that I'm missing.
As far as I can tell, it might actually be 207? I haven't beaten any of the four extra bosses yet but i got the achievement after killing one of the cookies and three of the 16F boss's crystals (they still showed up in my bestiary after I lost), which would leave the 11F boss, the 14F boss, the 16F boss and one crystal, and the strengthen final boss and its arms. I could probably try and see what-all I have that other people don't, or something.
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As far as I can tell, it might actually be 207? I haven't beaten any of the four extra bosses yet but i got the achievement after killing one of the cookies and three of the 16F boss's crystals (they still showed up in my bestiary after I lost), which would leave the 11F boss, the 14F boss, the 16F boss and one crystal, and the strengthen final boss and its arms. I could probably try and see what-all I have that other people don't, or something.
You might be right about it being 207. Shivanic just mentioned two more enemies I don't have which would put my total so far at 206. I found the Great Tree's Pearl Oyster though which is apparently more common in the small tunnel in floor 5 that connects the two halves of floor 6. Still haven't found Alluvial Kedama though. I don't really know what floor I should be looking on to find it, other than its in the Desert Stratum of course.
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I Think the alluvial kadama is on F10. (it's level 45 if that helps you any) (and it's right before any of the new f11 enemys in the bestiary)
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I have a problem with Kasen, I decided to wipe against Kaguya on 2nd floor, since she's close to entrance, wiped 10 times against her, 11th won with a lucky fluke, then wiped once against 3rd floor FOE and poison bug boss, got event and achievement, but no Kasen, reloaded the game, wiped twice against FOE, got event wtill no Kasen, in both cases I got 100g for achevement, like for that wipe once. I'm on hard mode if that's relevant, am I doing something wrong, or did the game just bugged on me and I need to restart?
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Kasen is really far down the character list compared to the characters in the first couple floors, just scroll down more.
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(https://www.dropbox.com/s/27xlh4moaro7i7a/FAIL.gif?dl=1)
My brain must have farted, I feel so stupid now ><
Thank you for the swift help
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It seems like the game makers expected people to wipe that much by around F5, there should be a bunch blank spots in the roster until you see kasen,
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I guess defense-ignoring attacks are overrated, or Flandre is way overpowered, since I've breezed my way through to F13 without having to change my initial party composition (
I did bring in Yuyuko and Reisen to cheese out the instant death on Ame-no-Murakumo
).
Hardest boss before F6 Tenshi was Mokou, since Flandre's nukes were rather ineffective against her (still the biggest damage I could do, go figure). Against F6 Tenshi I buffed Flande as much as I could (and Hard Mode let me) and grinded to lvl 30. Flandre ended up hitting for 30k+ with Laevetain. :D
F9 Tenshi pretty much got stuck in her %-based actions and died very fast, and F12 Tenshi was even easier. Since I had to try the fight several times for the drops, I went and tried to give Flandre as many buffs as possible during the fight for her attacks. On my final attempt I hit Tenshi first for 35k and then for 62k with Starbow Break, giving Tenshi only 2 turns, which were used on buffing and focus. I haven't even upgraded any stats on her in the library since 6F Tenshi. :D
Doing this run got me thinking: is it possible to pick a party of 12 and beat each and every boss in the game without swapping anyone out at any point (BP farm excluded to unlock stuff), post game included? And obviously doing all the fights at challenge level. There are quite a few situational boss fights where a certain character should be put in (poison/shock users for example) as well as the need to have some really tanky characters (enhanced mirror), so squeezing all the needed characters to 12 slots is not that easy.
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Not reassembling your party is definitely possible and Flandre makes defense ignoring unnecessary since she just deals so much damage.
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Doing this run got me thinking: is it possible to pick a party of 12 and beat each and every boss in the game without swapping anyone out at any point (BP farm excluded to unlock stuff), post game included? And obviously doing all the fights at challenge level. There are quite a few situational boss fights where a certain character should be put in (poison/shock users for example) as well as the need to have some really tanky characters (enhanced mirror), so squeezing all the needed characters to 12 slots is not that easy.
First, let's define all bosses, is the f6 stairs boss, F9 stairs boss after fight and f12 stairs boss after fight required? As these bosses can technicly be skipped while still completing the game.
secondly, is this gonna be a hard mode game? And for the post game bosses, how high should the viole levels be at most?
Thirdly, are we gonna have all 12 at the start or can we sub until we can get them in during the course of a normal game? (or is no subbing allowed?)
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First, let's define all bosses, is the f6 stairs boss, F9 stairs boss after fight and f12 stairs boss after fight required? As these bosses can technicly be skipped while still completing the game.
All of these can be skipped, since you still need to "win" the F6 fight by not getting yourself wiped.
secondly, is this gonna be a hard mode game? And for the post game bosses, how high should the viole levels be at most?
Hard Mode game, and following the same rules even into post game. Voile levels will need some math to not overshoot them. :D
Thirdly, are we gonna have all 12 at the start or can we sub until we can get them in during the course of a normal game? (or is no subbing allowed?)
Start the challenge with new game+, so you can pick your 12 right at the start.
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If you do it on Hard Mode, you might have to be a little more careful about what combinations of characters you run. Without some form of dealing with the high defense bosses (either exceptionally high offense ala Flandre, lots of debuffing, piercing attacks, or poison) you will probably roadblock at some point - otherwise I'd wager possible, but difficult.
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Cirno For Immortal Tier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB_kk8aBFYo&feature=youtu.be)
Note: No Hacking Used.
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I was thinking of doing a NG+ Hard mode just using the SDM crew ( I recall someone succeeding with team 9,idk how far they got) However i feel i will be speed gimped due to the fact that SDM bonus/Meiling Skill doesnt provide said Speed like it says, opinions if its doable? (Will probably hit a brick wall at Deside eater, Unless flandre is so overleveled to 1 genji glove leavetin it, Great C too)
EDIT
How did i suddenly unlocked the defeat 1 and 3 strengthen bosses achievement from the start? will this affect the strength bosses in the future?
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That feel when the only healer you have, single target heal to boot, gets knocked out after the second World Devouring Destruction (I think that's what it's called) when fighting Magatama of the High God...and you STILL WIN.
I've found that if you fix Patchouli's squish and speed problems, she can do some pretty-ok-though-not-nuke-level-damage-unless-the-opponent-is-weak-to-fire-or-MYS even without SDM.
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I was thinking of doing a NG+ Hard mode just using the SDM crew ( I recall someone succeeding with team 9,idk how far they got) However i feel i will be speed gimped due to the fact that SDM bonus/Meiling Skill doesnt provide said Speed like it says, opinions if its doable? (Will probably hit a brick wall at Deside eater, Unless flandre is so overleveled to 1 genji glove leavetin it, Great C too)
In my current playthrough I'm mostly trying to kill stuff with SDM party (minus Patchouli), and while it's amazing in the offense, it's awful defense-wise. Meiling isn't the most durable nor useful tank, both Remilia and Flandre have some horrible affinities that will end up them getting wiped out unless you really focus on covering those weaknesses. Also, without subclasses you have pretty much no access to decent heals, buffs or debuffs. This means that unless you can kill your enemy in 1-2 turns, you're quite likely going to lose. And since you're planning on doing Hard mode, having the speed and damage to pull that off is quite hard against some bosses (especially those that resist both fire and dark, Mirror of Darkness being the ultimate example). I think you can still grind loads of levels even in Hard mode to get level up points/skill points/more voile levels, if you just set level unification -> challenge level afterwards. I suppose any setup is doable given enough time really...
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Yeah, Meiling is really meant to be a 2nd slot tanky attacker anyway. And going SDM would mean you probably aren't putting her in the 2nd slot.
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I was thinking of doing a NG+ Hard mode just using the SDM crew ( I recall someone succeeding with team 9,idk how far they got) However i feel i will be speed gimped due to the fact that SDM bonus/Meiling Skill doesnt provide said Speed like it says, opinions if its doable? (Will probably hit a brick wall at Deside eater, Unless flandre is so overleveled to 1 genji glove leavetin it, Great C too)
You have Sakuya. Enhancer Sakuya is godly at raising Speed (and can also buff other stats as a result). Either way my boyfriend's been doing this exact challenge and the stat bonus is so huge that a lot of things are turning out to be pretty easy (Flandre's absurdly powerful to begin with, now add a perpetual +60% to her stats)
How did i suddenly unlocked the defeat 1 and 3 strengthen bosses achievement from the start? will this affect the strength bosses in the future?
If you did a NG+ from a fully complete file, then you've unlocked Maribel and Renko too. ...For whatever reason this causes those achievements to auto-flag. I don't know if it actually affects those fights, however. If you're worried, in the opening post of this thread you should be able to find a save file that doesn't have them unlocked but is otherwise a NG+ file, and that shouldn't set off those achievements.
Cirno For Immortal Tier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB_kk8aBFYo&feature=youtu.be)
Note: No Hacking Used.
Cirno's so good.
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if it doesnt affect strengthen bosses, then i dont mind the free 20k yen at start :3
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if it doesnt affect strengthen bosses, then i dont mind the free 20k yen at start :3
I think I've heard from a while ago around here that the 3 bosses in question will in fact not appear if you have those achievements. I can't confirm it first hand though, my current NG+ run is only at F10 right now.
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They are indeed gone if you have those achievements.
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Well that kind of sucks for any of my synergy runs (hurray Team 9, you were the only group to ever have to worry about that), but I honestly don't mind the 20k yen at the start either. It gives pretty much every other group a much needed bonus, given they have to go it the entire game alone, particularly Palace of Earth Spirits team, which is... kind of fragile without those library buffs.
*would be continuing his Yakumo Clan run, but he accidentally saved over it at 8F, so... oh well, maybe after Palace of Earth Spirits*
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Does this game have fullscreen? I press alt+enter and nothing.
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I was thinking of doing a NG+ Hard mode just using the SDM crew ( I recall someone succeeding with team 9,idk how far they got) However i feel i will be speed gimped due to the fact that SDM bonus/Meiling Skill doesnt provide said Speed like it says, opinions if its doable? (Will probably hit a brick wall at Deside eater, Unless flandre is so overleveled to 1 genji glove leavetin it, Great C too)
EDIT
How did i suddenly unlocked the defeat 1 and 3 strengthen bosses achievement from the start? will this affect the strength bosses in the future?
If the person you were recalling was in one of the previous LoT2 threads, he didn't do it in Hard Mode because at the time, Hard Mode wasn't a feature in the game.
Does this game have fullscreen? I press alt+enter and nothing.
Pretty sure the game doesn't have a full screen option. The best you can do is enlarge the window as far as the vertical height of your screen will allow by clicking the edge of the window and dragging it. But I honestly think the game window is large enough without doing this.
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If the person you were recalling was in one of the previous LoT2 threads, he didn't do it in Hard Mode because at the time, Hard Mode wasn't a feature in the game.
If he did it before then, there's also the very important point that the game was vastly easier at that point in time, without accounting for Hard Mode or not at all. The rebalance patches actually did a lot.
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I finished the Hard mode game without changing any of the 12 members I chose at the beginning. Tenshi, Byakuren and Sanae were able to tank the boss for all eternity, then I just popped in Flandre to hit it for 400k+ with Rainbow Break. Poor boss never even had a chance to summon those minions...
Now I could try and see if the party has any chance against post game bosses, but my lack of multi-target heals, reliable shock and ATB manipulation (Aya/Yukari) will likely make some bosses unbeatable. Not to mention the dread of exploring post game areas without the lovely Aya/Chen/Rumia combo. :P
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Wasnt there an expansion being made? I cant find info about it on the website for some reason.
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I believe someone posted it got delayed a few pages back? and i dont know in which thread i saw it but someone mentioned shou being there
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Their last post about it on their site dates from June. There's been (sadly) no update since. I'm hoping it gets released at Winter Comiket, but lack of any sort of news whether or not it's still being worked on is kind of worrying. Does anyone know if they have a Twitter or some other media outlet they might be using instead of their site for posting related news, or...?
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Ahh so it was this game. I THOUGHT it was but started doubting myself when I coudln't find any links on their website, or the wiki. As for Shou, yeah that was the one thing that was really mentioned when I first saw the article awhile back. IIRC it stated there were going to be 12 new characters.. or was it 8? I said it before but I will again. PLEAAAASE GIMMIE HATATE! PLEEAAAASE!
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Sukuna and Miko for expansion characters noooooooooow!!! Just for confirmation sakes Futo was also confirmed one of the characters for the expansion too along with Shou.
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Their last post about it on their site dates from June. There's been (sadly) no update since. I'm hoping it gets released at Winter Comiket, but lack of any sort of news whether or not it's still being worked on is kind of worrying. Does anyone know if they have a Twitter or some other media outlet they might be using instead of their site for posting related news, or...?
I did find the twitter of one of the developers, but all I could find of any use was the announcement that the plus disc was put on hold when they were helping Cubetype with their game (https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/500468164119904256). Outside of that he never really posts about what's happening in LoT2 development.
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Has for bonus bosses i expect the shinto trio (Amaterasu,Susanoo,Orochi) We already got all of the sacred relics, and serpent of chaos kinda fits to be orochi and making a return in LoT2
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Shouldn't that be Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukuyomi? They're the main children of Izanagi/Izanami.
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Shouldn't that be Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukuyomi? They're the main children of Izanagi/Izanami.
Oh right right, had a brain fuse while typing that, could be something like this
Tsukuyomi:Debuffs/Time Warp/Non-Elemental Magic (Only one in the game)
Amaterasu: Strongest FIRE/MYS Spells, Damage race a la Utsuho from LoT1
Susanoo:Strongest WND/SHK Spells
Orochi: Revamped Serpent of chaos, and keeps its 3 in 1 turn gimmick
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So i started another new game before finishing my last uz translated story, but my lineup that i dont intend to change at all if i can help it is:
Entire sdm crew (mostly to see if the sdm skill makes patchy and remi feel more un-nerfed)
Reimu cuz aoe heal, rumia's is great in this game but i like a healer that can rat a hit
Hina and parsee because i wanna see if they are as op as i hear... So far too early to say cuz not leveld enough to get skills and such. (So far they are awful but yeah, no skills and equipment to up my dbf resist for other party members making hina's debuff safer to use).
Byakuren cuz silly good buffs...
Eiki cuz she was my fave def ignore nuke in lot1 and this game all but requires them compared to 1
Kasen to see if remi is still hopelessly obsolete in comparison with sdm thing
Autumn harvest lady i always eff up the spelling for so i wont try... Mostly because i think she is a stupid good magician for subclass... I think it was magician. The one that gives everyone else mp. She has alot of mp of her own and can restore it back auick if needed.unlike lot1, mp conservation was an issue for me for the entire game.
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Oh right right, had a brain fuse while typing that, could be something like this
Tsukuyomi:Debuffs/Time Warp/Non-Elemental Magic (Only one in the game)
Amaterasu: Strongest FIRE/MYS Spells, Damage race a la Utsuho from LoT1
Susanoo:Strongest WND/SHK Spells
Orochi: Revamped Serpent of chaos, and keeps its 3 in 1 turn gimmick
I like this concept except for Amterasu should be more holy and Tsukuyomi should have some dark and mystic attacks in the mix in my honest opinion. Izanagi/Izanami for bosses too since this would make sense really after you beat all 4. I'm also expecting surprise Seija because well... rebellion reasons.
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And final plus disk should be the Gensokyo dragon god :V, thats what ame no murakumo tried to reach anyways, and if my memory doesnt fail someone said something about a floor called "The floor where all noble life reigns" or something of the sort
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Hm, I would think Amaterasu would have FIR/SPI rather than FIR/MYS. I dunno, maybe Tsukuyomi could have non-elemental and spirit attacks. Or they could all have a spirit attack of some sort.
Something like...
Tsukuyomi: Time-warps, non-elemental, Spirit, and Dark attacks. Is packed with debuffs and also inflicts heavy and silence. Highly resistant to mystic, cold, spirit, and nature attacks. (Notice something?)
Amaterasu: Very powerful Fire and Spirit attacks. Also comes packed with some other elements. Doesn't really inflict status, just hits very hard. Highly resistant to fire, mystic, spirit and dark attacks. Squishiest of the 3, but is the hardest hitter of the 3.
Susanoo: Very powerful Wind and Physical attacks and an array of ways to inflict shock, terror, and paralysis. Highly resistant to wind, dark, and physical attacks. High status resistances, and also buffs his own stats often. (Kind of like Blue Giant Oni, but not 100%) Tankiest of the 3.
EDIT
So fighting Ama no Murakumo, if you fight at challenge level, it is possible for you to get a magic gem and training manual. Goodie.
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Hina and parsee because i wanna see if they are as op as i hear... So far too early to say cuz not leveld enough to get skills and such. (So far they are awful but yeah, no skills and equipment to up my dbf resist for other party members making hina's debuff safer to use).
I didn't find Hina to be that amazing as a damage dealer, it took two turns to max out her debuffs to make Pain Flow do good damage, and even then she didn't get even close to what Flandre was able to do with Starbow Break (not to even mention Laevetain). Of course, with the right skills and full debuffs on her she was very tanky, but let's just say the synergy between her and Byakuren isn't that great...
So fighting Ama no Murakumo, if you fight at challenge level, it is possible for you to get a magic gem and training manual. Goodie.
If you fight it above the challenge level, you still get one gem/manual. So if it takes 5 minutes to beat it at challenge level and 10 seconds at a higher level (~150), you're better off just going all out on it.
In other news, I came up with a challenge to make the post game a bit more interesting: Your exploration party must split into 12 groups to take out the enhanced bosses "simultaneously". This means you're only allowed to use a character for a single enhanced boss. With 46 characters you can have 11 full groups and one with 2 characters, or two groups with 3 in them.
Simple rules I plan to follow:
- Hard Mode active, meaning no character can be above the challenge level of the boss (when fighting it, getting level up points above it is allowed)
- Voile levels at challenge level x 1,2, which means level 134 for the lowest level boss (good luck getting the money to raise all characters even to that much...)
- Even though the bosses can be thought to be fought at the same time, free swapping of equipment from fight to fight (no need to equip pieces of heart to the last characters :D)
I think the hardest part about this challenge is figuring out which characters to use at each boss, and where to put your big guns *cough* Flandre *cough* at.
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If you fight it above the challenge level, you still get one gem/manual. So if it takes 5 minutes to beat it at challenge level and 10 seconds at a higher level (~150), you're better off just going all out on it.\
Or just have your 4 strongest members with up to 8 level 1s :P
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Never bothered to use/test but i see Nitori and renko got a skill that increases equipment stats. that also includes Affinities/Statuses? like if it raises 100+Ntr to 200+, it will rise 20 poison resist to 40? if thats the case i am already thinking of wicked ideas to make renko a tank in case i do a next playtrought
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Yup, Maintenance doubles the effect of all equipment, so even someone like Nitori can tank(But why would you do that?)
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Yes. Max HP, Max MP, Recovery, TP, affinity, resistance, whatever - if it's a number, Maintenance doubles it. (Well, I'm not entirely sure about stuff like the Scouter and Bee Shield's percentage bonus damage, but everything else show up instantly in the stat screen so I know for sure that they double).
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If you fight it above the challenge level, you still get one gem/manual. So if it takes 5 minutes to beat it at challenge level and 10 seconds at a higher level (~150), you're better off just going all out on it.
Are you sure about that? Cause when I was farming ama no murakumo I was doing it quite above challenger level, but I never once got a training manual or magic gem from it. When I decided to level unify at level 100, I ended up getting a magic gem and training manual.
I wonder if I get more drops if I do it below challenger level.
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If you fight it above the challenge level, you still get one gem/manual. So if it takes 5 minutes to beat it at challenge level and 10 seconds at a higher level (~150), you're better off just going all out on it.
Are you sure about that? Cause when I was farming ama no murakumo I was doing it quite above challenger level, but I never once got a training manual or magic gem from it. When I decided to level unify at level 100, I ended up getting a magic gem and training manual.
I wonder if I get more drops if I do it below challenger level.
I've never gotten a Magic Gem or a Training Manual from him out of all the times I've fought him above challenge level.
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I beat him in hard mode and got the items.
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Yup, Maintenance doubles the effect of all equipment, so even someone like Nitori can tank(But why would you do that?)
You do it because you give Nitori the "boosts everything a ton" equipment and then she tanks like a champ in a full ATK build. You can fight postgame bosses without having to switch her out, without overpumping her stats...
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Are you sure about that? Cause when I was farming ama no murakumo I was doing it quite above challenger level, but I never once got a training manual or magic gem from it. When I decided to level unify at level 100, I ended up getting a magic gem and training manual.
I just tested this again, with an average level of 158 I got a swiftness gem from beating it. In my previous game I fought it 10 times in a row and got a gem every time as well.
Or just have your 4 strongest members with up to 8 level 1s :P
I did notice the average level dropping a lot if a member left the current exploration party, but to think it actually affects rewards from bosses, seems a bit broken. Well, now I can plan some weird party setups for the other post game bosses without having to worry about losing out on the rewards. :D
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I did notice the average level dropping a lot if a member left the current exploration party, but to think it actually affects rewards from bosses, seems a bit broken. Well, now I can plan some weird party setups for the other post game bosses without having to worry about losing out on the rewards. :D
Well the game does specifically state that it's based on your Average Party Level. On Floor 1 no less.
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So I got my first stone of awakening on my current playthru and I'm wondering how I should spend it.
I always hear people say to make hina a hexer, which sounds like common sense in a way but I can't help but think she actually doesn't benefit from it as much as one would think. She can debuff everything as is for one. It gives her debuff resistance, and reduces the power of debuffs on her which is also bad. The hp regen thing is gimped just for her...All this just for 20% more powerful hexes on enemies? I'm not sold.
I kinda think she would benefit to be a sorcerer honestly. Because currently I find that once she debuffs enemies and gets sweet buffs, she has nothing to do with her improved stats but use her mediocre fire spell. I'm thinking being a sorcer would allow her to be able to nuke using other elements, not to mention the row attack buff would buff her only nuke she has too, and I'm hoping their formulas are a little but more impressive.
Also I have byakuren so she will be my strategist this game as opposed to remi. I'm not sure if I want to make remi a monk or a warrior. Warrior looks better for her because she'll get a row attack, and tension up would be good for her since I generally use her to spam attacks on bosses until she's out of mp. I think people would assume the monk's buff all passive is good for her but fact is the it's actually less good on her because she already has majesty, and due to subtractive/additive formulas, the gap in power between a 0-40% buff is far more noticeable than going from 40-80... oh yeah, she has majest AND vlad already so there's that too. Not to mention managing to get higher %s for smaller differences is also offset by them falling off slightly faster as well, so it's really a minor increase for her IMO.
Basically the only reason why I consider monk on her at all over warrior is because in my experience with the first game, iron mountain charge has a stupid good formula, and remi's spear the gungnir is actually quite mediocre. I didn't use warrior much in my first game, but its formulas didn't SEEM to be all that great, while iron mountain lookedl ike it really blew the socks off every nuke other than the stupid good ones like 3d cannon and such.
Anyone have good experience with warrior subclassing?
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You make Hina a Hexer but don't skill everything that comes with it. The HP/MP regen is really noticable (or was it just HP? Either way, it's good) and more powerful debuffs are always nice. You really don't feel the innate Debuff-resist that comes with that subclass.
She basically doesn't need any external healing at all unless you put her up against something that can target her with physical spirit-type attacks.
But yes, that does make her confined to switching/using fire-spell when everything is debuffed. In the end it's your choice.
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I just tested this again, with an average level of 158 I got a swiftness gem from beating it. In my previous game I fought it 10 times in a row and got a gem every time as well.
You ALWAYS get gems for beating it. Its just you don't get Energy / Magic gems and Training Manuals unless you beat it at challenge level.I kinda think she would benefit to be a sorcerer honestly. Because currently I find that once she debuffs enemies and gets sweet buffs, she has nothing to do with her improved stats but use her mediocre fire spell. I'm thinking being a sorcer would allow her to be able to nuke using other elements, not to mention the row attack buff would buff her only nuke she has too, and I'm hoping their formulas are a little but more impressive.
Now I know what to spend my second stone of awakening on. Been wondering since no one else in my party has an immediate need for a subclass.
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I cheated myself 99 tomes of reincarnation for testing purposes yesterday to see if i can find more party members to fit
MAG Sorcerer Renko: Terrible idea, even with mainteniance she could not do damage
Sanae: She has a single single target heal......but thats about it
Patchouli: Passable damage, but too slow/fragile to do anything without aya help,Will see if kaguya Defense Ignore+rainbow danmaku can do much more
I am always resseting my last 2-3 party members until i see ones i like the most and stick to them, after gearing/getting the setup i want i pit them against enhanced ame no kuramuno
Now gonna test:
Youmu, Again/Monk Subclass
Kaguya/Magician Or Gambler Or sorcerer
ATK Mokou/Monk Or Gambler
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Who are your first 9?
But yeah i find that both patchy and remi took a nerf bat in this game, trying them again with all 5 sdm crew to see if that sdm skill is really justification for how meh they were individually.
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Just tested, Mokou barely did damage, switching her back to enchancer, youmu Didnt Managed to damage the boss at all. just dealing 0 or 1 even buffed, and kaguya got sniped earlier, gonna swich youmu for yuugi and see how it does. the other nine are mostly members that sticked for most of the run
Reimu
Marisa
Meiling
Remilia
Sakuya
Flandre
Kasen
Aya
Utsuho
I had Tenshi,Kanako and Byakuren before, Tenshi did well ripping the buffs out bosses like azure blue giant,Kanako barely did anything and Brokenkyuren was passing 100% buffs while tanking like nothing
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Anyone have good experience with warrior subclassing?
I got good use out of it for situations for when the boss/foe/big enemy is weak to fire and isn't a defense tank, but that's about it. Explosive Flame Sword feels like a pretty legit attack based fire attack to me as I used it with Kogasa and Youmu and similar to really effortlessly tear fire weak encounters to shreds without huge buffs and exp investments into them. It's not a class I normally put on them for everyday exploration- I very frequently respec in this game since there's not even a token EXP loss like in EO 4 and Untold.
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Sanae: She has a single single target heal......but thats about it
I had Sanae paired up with Byakuren as permanent spot 2 and 3 in the front party, since she's tanky enough to take on most big hits. She was my only healer in the party (with Meiling), and most of the time it was enough to keep my party alive. For longer fights I'd start out with Sanae in the front to buff up Byakuren, then swap her out for Reimu for better heals. Also, making Sanae herbalist gives her some extra buffing power.
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In the end i simply replaced Tenshi With Kaguya, has my only Magic damage dealers were Marisa and Utsuho, and i had enough tanks i believe
Final Setup Until my mind changes again
Reimu Marisa
Mokou Kaguya
Remilia Flandre
Sakuya Meiling
BrokenYoukaiJesusByakuren and Kasen
Utsuho And Aya
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You leaving out nitori on purpose cuz too op or something?
Also have you tried rumia? Dont use dark side of the moon to pass high defense, just power thru it with moonlight ray, its surprisingly effective. She is WAY more badass this time around, just make sure you get that skill where high defense enemies blah blah i forgot the name.
As for fire element warrior thing. Yeah that was my limited experience too. Explosive flame sword had a ok formula at best but fire damage, which is useful since remi is very limited in what element to attack with. Maybe she should go monk after all... Kinda sucks that warrior has like 5 things good for her and monk looks like the better choice for a reason that isnt even specific to her but is just so much better than every other attack.
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You leaving out nitori on purpose cuz too op or something?
Also have you tried rumia? Dont use dark side of the moon to pass high defense, just power thru it with moonlight ray, its surprisingly effective. She is WAY more badass this time around, just make sure you get that skill where high defense enemies blah blah i forgot the name.
As for fire element warrior thing. Yeah that was my limited experience too. Explosive flame sword had a ok formula at best but fire damage, which is useful since remi is very limited in what element to attack with. Maybe she should go monk after all... Kinda sucks that warrior has like 5 things good for her and monk looks like the better choice for a reason that isnt even specific to her but is just so much better than every other attack.
I just simply dont have too much affection to nitori, i admit the 3d Bombing/grenades attack looked cool in videos, but shes simply one of those characters i dont like alot, rumia i admit she was a livesaver on the starter floors, piercing FOE defense and having awesome heal that even surpassed reimu
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Yeah dark side of the moon ignores defense but is so weak damage still sucks. Moonlight ray on the other hand ignores MOST defense, not all, but still has plenty of oomph to do after. I personally found i to be more damaging against god tier defense enemies than kaggy.
As for not liking nitori... Shame on you! Shammee! =p. I like her cuz she's like the only cute talented engineer character i know that isnt a klutz and has stuff break apart 9/10 times like every other engineer fictional character is... Except that tita girl or whatever her name was in trails in the sky. But yeah im the same with with many other rpg game characters, often the lead.
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Didnt liked lucca from chono trigger* yeah....maybe its just me preferring fighter/monk like females
Anyhow, after being mauled 2-3 times testing characters by the enchanced ame no kuramuno is that i noticed that the "Shredder" move from one of his arms Not only removes all the buffs from your party, but also lowers their ATB bar, i must be blind to not notice that earlier :derp:
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Yeah, Youmu isn't really much of pure attacker. She might work well as a bulky attacker thanks to her regen ability, but from my exp she isn't much of a damage dealer. The creator should buff Youmu's damage, imo.
Kaguya... I honestly have no idea what subclass to put on her.
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Yeah, Youmu isn't really much of pure attacker. She might work well as a bulky attacker thanks to her regen ability, but from my exp she isn't much of a damage dealer. The creator should buff Youmu's damage, imo.
Kaguya... I honestly have no idea what subclass to put on her.
I made her magician just to be able to spam more mana :V
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I had Kaguya as a Sorceress in my first game, didn't really have much use for her other than the +10% damage when at full HP (which was always the case until she died...). Her own moveset is decent enough to not have to look into subclasses for more options, so I guess Transcendent isn't a bad option either, or just Monk for the lowered ATB cost of spell cards.
So I setup my party for last boss farm mode, finishing the fight with two Starbow Breaks. In total it takes just under 1,5 minutes to kill it again (ending dialogue) for 2 gems. Being a math freak, I had to calculate how long it would take to max out all characters' gem buffs. For the sake of simplicity some aspects had to be ignored: uneven gem drops, training manual drops, gems found as drops before this and some characters not wanting certain gems (MAG gems for Yuugi):
8 types of gems for 48 characters with 10 for each = 3840 gems
2 gems drop in each fight = 1920 fights
1,5 minutes per fight = 2880 minutes = exactly 48 hours
Math is so depressing sometimes, isn't it? :(
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The point where you just grind the final boss is the point where you start hacking them in with cheat engine, grinding the boss in 2 attacks just for gems just sounds like a timesink to me, i would just.....cheat them like i did with the tomes, And about the subclasses these are the ones i Never/Barely used
Guardian
Warrior
Healer
Sorcerer
Hexer (Just for certain bosses weak to debuffs)
Toxicologist (I only used it on great "C")
My party setup has always been "Buff the Offense and Wreck the Hell out of the boss,Retreat,survive and repeat" therefore most of my semi-tanks are enchancer (Reimu,Sakuya,Mokou) subclass while meiling is herbalist because she is always out
Do the trascendent buffs REALLY make that of a difference? Currently I got Remilia,Utsuho and kasen has trascendent, Was thinking of changing to Strategist Remilia,Magician Utsuho to stay more in order to spam giga flare, and Monk Kasen for speed/Spellcard delay, But thats only if Trascendent doesnt really make that much difference in the character
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Subclasses are mostly for niche things or to give you things you need. Healer for example is one of the latter kind since its single target Heal is actually quite potent and useful on fast characters. Aya being a good user of that.
Sorcerer, Warrior & Toxicologist are nice to fill up elemental attacks for characters that rely on only one. I had Yuyuko as Sorcerer since it also strengthens Row attacks. Marisa makes good use of Toxicologist both with Sheer Force and it giving her access to elements beyond Mystic.
Iku can be focused on an auto-attacking spec with Sorcerer and deals good, consistent damage like that.
Hexer can be good on characters that don't have a specific need for subclasses but are weak to debuffs if you have Hina in your party. It does give +40 resist, which is something that shouldn't be underestimated. (Btw: 120 resist is about enough to completely resist Hina's debuffs on your party.)
Guardian is kinda meh. Tanky characters can't make proper use of its offensive skills and are better off with other subclasses that give them party-wide utility. Designated tanks also usually have their own method of buffing their defense (Tenshi, Hina).
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Yeah characters like kaggy/patchy dont really benefit from subclasses much imo. They bave a good elemental spread already so sorcerer isnt great, and they are slow and their good mag is of no importance to utility uses.
Personally i think tanks make much better use from guardian than elemental magic nukes can use whatever subclass. If only there was a monk type for casters too.
Guardian isnt about shield bash so much as a self def buff, higher aggro, taking less damage... I think they get plenty imo.
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The point where you just grind the final boss is the point where you start hacking them in with cheat engine, grinding the boss in 2 attacks just for gems just sounds like a timesink to me, i would just.....cheat them like i did with the tomes.
Nope I would completely refuse to hack in the gems / tomes. If you wanted the benefits of the stat gems outside of what you'd earn in a normal game, you need to work for them. And while its a time sink, its a game. Games are supposed to be enjoyable time sinks. Don't like grinding? Well that's a LoT game for you.
Kaguya got Sorcerer for both Aspiration Surge and Penetrator (You don't always want to target every enemy in the fight) as well as Mind Assault and Mind and Body as One.
And people seem to keep overlooking / ignoring this but the passives from just having the subclass is great for the characters (Sorcerer giving MP, TP, Magic and Mind, almost everything that Kaguya wants).
I've never used Guardian, Hexer, or Toxicologist. Never needed the ailments or debuffs and Guardian is just completely meh in my eyes (They don't have higher aggro by the way Ghaleon).
Patchy is probably the worse case of "doesn't really benefit from subclasses". It has to be Sorcerer or Gambler for her since she mainly wants passive subclass boosts rather than the spellcards they might provide.
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Warrior Mystia FTW. Seriously, she wrecks stuff.
I can say from personal experience that Transcendant helps Kaguya quite a bit.
When I used Patchy, I didn't give her a subclass, or anyone else since that was a no subclass run, I did use SDM along with Remilia and Sakuya (no Meiling or Flandre). After a first aid kit and sub equips that increase primarily hp, mag and mind, I found Patchy to be quite useful and could even take a minor physical hit while dealing all around solid damage. But I also used Sanae in that run so Patchy did get buffed often and I did constantly skill reset Patchy to max level the spell I'd be using. Did the same for Youmu but with less satisfying results.
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Well my challenge attempt against the enhanced bosses didn't start out too well: after some planning I decided that the team to go after Demonic Eye's Shadow would be Mokou, Hina, Keine and Alice. I proceeded to lower my level to 114 to match the challenge level, entered the fight, and got totally wrecked. I could barely damage the boss and it was one-shotting Mokou with it's normal attacks. So I decided to drop the challenge part of this enhanced boss run and just stick to my real levels.
2nd attempt, now with an average level of 178, I was just about able to keep up with the boss's damage (Mokou as healer, Keine healing as enchanter), while Alice was barely able to kill the adds before they got their turn. All in all it was quite an intense fight, interesting to see if my 11 other parties will be as successful. :D
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Okay, Maybe with this setup i can farm gems with a lv98 average party, 3 minutes top for 2 gems (6 party members lv1 of course)
-Front row:Aya,Meiling,Sakuya,Flandre
-Divine grandson advent on sakuya,Sakuya Uses Art Of Battlemage on flandre (Better if it procs several times)
-Flandre uses starbow Break
-Aya uses divine grandson on flandre for second starbow break (Maybe Meiling can fit a awakening herb between) and boss is defeated, reward: 2 gems
I should get about 60 gems per hour if i keep doing it :3
EDIT: It drops one random gem and a manual right? Already got that twice in a row,My aya messes the sequence abit has she got 1715 speed, courtesy of 3 costume ninja equipped on her, First kill was starbow break genji glove dealing 3.5M damage
Now Sequence goes like this
-Aya starts with 20,000 ATB BAR
-Divine grandson on sakuya for Battlemage buff on flandre
-Aya turn again and does the same action, if Battlemage buff triggered several times, switch her for remilia SDM bonus
-Flandre starbows breaks and either boss dies or is severely crippled
-Battle Over
Switched meiling from herbalist to strategist, to have a 10% damage boost on flandre (and meiling wasnt taking a turn before boss died anyways)
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@ Kaitani Well it's not like every character needs 8 of every type of gem. Certain characters (Byakuren) can go with every gem, but every other character does need that every gem. It's pointless to use gems on super squishy characters (Chen, Flandre), Not every character uses both stats (except composite character, and Warrior Yuuka) and some gems would be a waste on certain characters (fighter gems for flandre, she has gargantuan attack anyway). The gems I believe everyone can make good use of is agility gems and magic gems. Every other gem is subject to the dependent character. Maybe I could do a calculation for each character. :O
@ DarkAtma
Warrior is a good class. The characters who want Warrior are those bulky attacker characters. Another type of character who would want Warrior is a character who really needs other elements to attack with. Meiling makes very good use of Warrior for instance. Another character who does oddly good with Warrior, and I mentioned before, Yuuka. Her base atk is higher than her magic. So she can utilize warrior subclass to be a mixed attacker. Isn't that great?
Healer is also a pretty good class. It's for fast characters and or tanky characters with innate heals. (Komachi, Mokou) Healer Komachi works wonders. She can heal your secondary tank and heal herself when she's nuked. Although imo, Herbalist Komachi is better.
Hexer depends. I know for certain the best hexer characters are characters with sheer force and/or Hina/Reisen.
Guardian is a meh class. I actually think this is the subclass with the least use. Maybe you could put it on an bulky attacker character who only really has offensive skills (Momiji) so the subclass will give her some good defensive potential as well. Though in all honesty I still think it'd be a waste.
Transcendent is a very good subclass for certain characters. Kasen, Utsuho, and Nitori for example make very good use out of the transcendent class. Basically transcendent is for people who WANT stay out and fight often because they have an ability that requires staying out. It's also for people who have very good attack formulas, but don't have particularly nice stats. (Nitori). Kasen and Utsuho have fighting spirit, Utsuho and Nitori has heating up, etc.
@ Yookie, From my exp 60 debuff resist is enough to basically ignore all of Hina's debuffs. Maybe it's just that I'm lucky I guess.
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Reading assembly when you can't sleep is fun.
Ailments:
X - 10-19
△ - 20-29?
― - 30-49
○ - 50-74
◎ - 75-99
★ - 100+
9 or below should be a dark red X, but I honestly can't figure out how to read this code to get that.
Also, bosses have 1000 Dth resistance. Probably all of them (except malignut+shadow and any flunkies), but I only checked a few.
(dark red?) X - 0-33
X - 34-65
△ - 66-99
― - 100-139
○ - 140-199
◎ - 200-299
★ - 300+
I'm not sure anything even has below 34 affinity. Flandre has 50 cold and spirit resistance, for example. I can't think of anything that'd be weaker to an element than her.
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Reading assembly when you can't sleep is fun.
Ailments:
X - 10-19
△ - 20-29?
― - 30-49
○ - 50-74
◎ - 75-99
★ - 100+
9 or below should be a dark red X, but I honestly can't figure out how to read this code to get that.
Also, bosses have 1000 Dth resistance. Probably all of them (except malignut+shadow and any flunkies), but I only checked a few.
(dark red?) X - 0-33
X - 34-65
△ - 66-99
― - 100-139
○ - 140-199
◎ - 200-299
★ - 300+
I'm not sure anything even has below 34 affinity. Flandre has 50 cold and spirit resistance, for example. I can't think of anything that'd be weaker to an element than her.
Sakuya actually has a ◎ for Death.
I'm now actually curious on how much the FOE on Floor 3 has considering I could get Death Procs on a number of other FOEs with Komachi but not him.
If 1000 is the exact amount though for a number of bosses, including the final boss, I think I can figure out how much Reisen's skill reduces it from there then.
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Reading assembly when you can't sleep is fun.
Ailments:
X - 10-19
△ - 20-29?
― - 30-49
○ - 50-74
◎ - 75-99
★ - 100+
9 or below should be a dark red X, but I honestly can't figure out how to read this code to get that.
Also, bosses have 1000 Dth resistance. Probably all of them (except malignut+shadow and any flunkies), but I only checked a few.
(dark red?) X - 0-33
X - 34-65
△ - 66-99
― - 100-139
○ - 140-199
◎ - 200-299
★ - 300+
I'm not sure anything even has below 34 affinity. Flandre has 50 cold and spirit resistance, for example. I can't think of anything that'd be weaker to an element than her.
Are you confident in the values you gathered? I'm considering putting them in the wiki some how when I wake up tomorrow.
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I'm not sure anything even has below 34 affinity. Flandre has 50 cold and spirit resistance, for example. I can't think of anything that'd be weaker to an element than her.
Cirno has 24 Fire resist base, it really doesn't get lower than that though.
@ Yookie, From my exp 60 debuff resist is enough to basically ignore all of Hina's debuffs. Maybe it's just that I'm lucky I guess.
Hina actually managed to debuff Rumia for me once, so maybe I got unlucky several times. And even people with ~120 resist sometimes got hit. Not badly, but still.
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Sakuya actually has a ◎ for Death.
She's totally a flunky
Cirno has 24 Fire resist base, it really doesn't get lower than that though.
Yeah, but she's not a boss. The symbols are just for enemies you fight.
Are you confident in the values you gathered? I'm considering putting them in the wiki some how when I wake up tomorrow.
Unless I'm misreading assembly, completely positive. There is the issue that I can't figure out how the dark red ailment resistance works (trying to follow the jumps give me "Star" for 0 resistance, which is obviously not right). But other than that, this is directly from the game's code, and not the result of testing. Exact values I gave, e.g. Flandre's exact cold resistance, I'm also positive on. I did not check every single boss enemy with Star death res, so I can't say with certainty that they're all 1000, but they probably are.
Anyway the reason I was looking into this was because I might try and write a program to interpret the assembly and create a monster database, like SpecialDisk's reference. But only if the upcoming expansion doesn't do it for us.
Also - the game does NOT allow for arbitrary levels. If you have a kedama at levels 1, 3, and 10 (or whatever it is), it's because 3peso manually created stats for those exact levels.
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(trying to follow the jumps give me "Star" for 0 resistance, which is obviously not right
The multiplication by 0 might just null out the damage entirely or turn it into a heal or something? Although it's not very relevant.
One of the wasp bosses related to Wriggle has non-perfect dth resist. I think I recall people making Reisen's ability work on dth'ing Yuyuko but that might have been a different boss.
Also - the game does NOT allow for arbitrary levels.
Hmm. The infinite dungeon they talked about made me imagine the levels were generated. Maybe they'll make a set of enemies with properly scaling levels purely for that dungeon, then?
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Excuse the newbie question, but assuming we get more characters on the plus disk, how the game will calculate how much accumulated exp they got if they were never there to get any at all? :V In other news, 300 more kills for the last achievement
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The multiplication by 0 might just null out the damage entirely or turn it into a heal or something? Although it's not very relevant.
One of the wasp bosses related to Wriggle has non-perfect dth resist. I think I recall people making Reisen's ability work on dth'ing Yuyuko but that might have been a different boss.
Hmm. The infinite dungeon they talked about made me imagine the levels were generated. Maybe they'll make a set of enemies with properly scaling levels purely for that dungeon, then?
Oh, they mentioned an ID? I thought that was pure speculation from here. "Wouldn't it be awesome if..."
It's possible he'll implement it, but the current system is something like
CreateMonster(monid, instance) {
Name = monsters[monid];
if (instance == 1) {
Lv = 4
HP = 100
ATK = 60 ......
} else {
Lv = 10
HP = 400
ATK = 100 ......
}
FirRes = 200 ....
PsnRes = 10 ....
With more ifs/else ifs if there's multiple possible levels.
ok I was reading the assembly wrong. The red X makes perfect sense. I was just starting in the middle of an if-else chain. Whoops.
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It will most likely work like with all the other characters that joined you on the way:
They get the amount of experience they would have earned had they been the entire time sitting around in the human village. (That is how it works, isn't it?)
Either way, it would be kinda impractical not to do it like with the others. The situation is the same after all.
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Now i am itching to take another fragile speedster/DPS dealer to my team, However in am torn out on which one to pick between chen Or mystia
Chen because she can just boost herself and squeeze has many skills as possible before retreating (was thinking full attack+warrior/monk)
Mystia because its abit more durable than chen, same combo has above
Just checked nitori skillset and saw Overheat+maintenance, i am wondering if she can outdo flandre in a prolonged boss battle >_>
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Nitori can do comparable damage to Flan when the boss isn't weak to Flan's stuff, and the big selling point... give her your best gear and Nitori will tank it out like a boss whilst doing that damage. Wheras you're lucky if Flan doesn't die from the boss kinda scratching her a little, even if it's from one of her favored elements. (transcendent helps nitori a -lot-, and Cooling Down doesn't seem to actually require full hp to work)
Chen -really- needs investment in her comparatively low attack stat to help get through the enemy's defense enough to still deal worthwhile damage. Unfortunately, the abundance of high-defense bosses later in the game makes things rather tough for her, but if you're using stuff like Yakumo team and/or def debuffs she might still work out pretty well!
Warrior probably works best if you do try her out, as she can use several of it's more situational passives, especially row attack strengthening.
Mystia takes less dedication to get functional. I can't comment much past that since I didn't use her. Instant Attack is pretty neat though, which they both possess. Also Mystia's attacks look really cool visually.
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I don't think warrior would be good for Chen honestly. The only real thing I can see her getting a warrior benefit from is the atk buff from passive and 10% damage at full hp. Otherwise, it seems kind of wasted. I believe the best class for Chen is Gambler. Give her some fighter, magic, and agility gems (she really needs em, I'm serious about that) and she'll be able to do some pretty good damage. Put gambler Chen with the Yakumo family and Chen will just destroy thing.
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Chen -really- needs investment in her comparatively low attack stat to help get through the enemy's defense enough to still deal worthwhile damage. Unfortunately, the abundance of high-defense bosses later in the game makes things rather tough for her, but if you're using stuff like Yakumo team and/or def debuffs she might still work out pretty well!
And this is why I'm wondering why the developers didn't just give her Piercing Attack, since her DPS won't have to suffer so much if some of it can tear through regardless of the enemy's defences.
As for what Chen could use for a subclass, as she is now, I would actually suggest Monk, due to the spellcards that it grants, rather than the skills. I can understand why the Warrior skillset can help Chen out, and also why the Gambler's skillset would look attractive once you actually get that subclass unlocked, so...
As a side note, has anyone tried the Warrior or Monk subclasses on Komachi? The row strengthening skill from the former would help power up her Cold element spell, and she would gain access to the Fire element through Explosive Flame Sword. The latter would give her Wind(buffs speed) and Nature(Pierces defence) attacks to work with, and Body Revitalization has a 4% HP regen which can only help Komachi in restoring her HP alongside her Regeneration skill.
Anyways, on a separate note, I would think that Guardian would be more useful if the following was added to it...
1. The passive that grants a DEF Buff would also give a MND Buff as well.
2. The passive that reduces the time used up by using the Focus command was granted a increase in Max Level, so that the timebar would be set to 8000 instead of 7000.
As it stands now, I believe that Guardian was indeed built with Momiji in mind, since she can counter the drop in speed with Accelerate, and her Eyes that Perceive Reality skill can serve for offence and defence by negating the enemy's buffs. Add to that her accuracy increasing skill, and it's clear that the subclass was meant for her. Plus, the whole "Momiji has a shield" sort of thing does seem to help thematically speaking...
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Oh yeah, I forgot about Gambler. That'd probably be the best option. Warrior is still actually a pretty good one, though, partially since gambler is late; Chen can make use of basically all of it's skills, and the passive ATK selfbuffing is pretty much the only buff she needs. Monk's weaker boost-all isn't necessary when her defenses are hopeless.
Chen's base attack is not very good, so using monk for the attacks it gives isn't really all that great. She's fast but when she isn't using her own skills, she's not -that- fast.
although yeah gambler is just the end-all-be-all class for glass cannons (and worth considering even for non-glass attackers if they have spare mp)
Guardian is an interesting choice for people with Grand Incantation (Reimu/Patch/Maribel) but I'm not sure if it's a good one.
Everyone seems to use Komachi as a tank with passive regen, and Healer is a much better tank subclass than Monk, and she'd probably want all the HP level dumping even if her defenses are hopeless. Now, if you were using an offensive Komachi... then it might be pretty great!
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Gonna test gambler chen, I turned Patchy And Kaguya into gamblers, lets see how that turns out, Its ATK Aya worth considering or just a speed buffer machine?, also gave me the idea of swapping HP sakuya with SPD sakuya and put 3 ninja outfits on her, she will just pop and buff with luna dial/battlemage and then switch away like aya pretty much does
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Someone made a template on the wiki to easily display bosses' Elemental Affinities and Ailment Resistances awhile back but I can't figure out how to get to the template page. The best place to put the values qazmlpok gathered would be in the gameplay page except I lack the symbol images to put them there. Can someone more versed in the wiki's inner workings direct me to the template page / tell me how to reach it?
Edit: Never mind found it. I thought the symbols on the template were just images but they were actually character symbols. That makes everything easier.
Edit2: And done. I'm not really satisfied with how I formatted the info in the gameplay page but I couldn't come up with a better way to organize it visually.
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I honestly cant imagine aya as anything but healer. Yeah her attack is actually pretty good, and attack type subclasses would benefit that style. But as a healer she can almost instantly heal anyone when needed, and her atk is high enough that her heal is actually big, and she can speed buff OR insta gauge fill someone. You can spend her level up bonuses on speed even if you wanted to (not saying should but its definately more viable on that spec than anyone else), and STILL have something useful for her to do on every turn. Plus her evade is good enough to not take as much damage and require her own healing often, but she generally has enough defenses to survive a good hit should she take one (and certainly be fast enough to heal herself before a 2nd).
Aya got one of the largest buffs from lot1-2 imo.
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Gambler Kaguya might not be the best idea, although not a bad one. Kaguya does have a pretty high mana pool, but she also has high mana costs, so uh... magic gems. And maybe a Yogurt Doll or someother MP increasing item. You'll really need it.
And Aya being a main attack, she doesn't really have quite enough damage for it. She's very good at clearing mobs though. That's one thing for sure I know.
Gambler Patchy sounds like it would oddly work.
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I personally like using patchy's mnd to tank hits from casters myself though, so gambler patchy not really for me.
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I honestly cant imagine aya as anything but healer.
I made her a magician. Magic Circuit is nice, plus it gives her extra MP for spd/advent
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I made her a magician. Magic Circuit is nice, plus it gives her extra MP for spd/advent
I made Aya Enchanter in my enhanced boss run, for some speedy buffing of Flandre. Those two joined up with Rinnosuke (herbalist) and Yuyuko (sorceress) to take down Magatama of Darkness. This fight clearly showed me the importance of buffs when you're dealing with high defense enemies:
I had no party-wide damage boosts available (no dark damage boost, no enemy type boost, no strategist boost etc.)
Flandre with 50k attack, no buffs -> Starbow Break -> 0 damage
Add 36% boost from Herb of Awakening -> 100k damage
Add 30% ATK boost -> 200k damage
Add 100% ATK boost -> 1,2 million damage
I think it's quite likely that Genji Glove procced on that last hit, but regardless the increase in damage is insane. It also explains why Yuyuko wasn't able to do any damage even with her spell card that partly ignores MND.
Anyways, with Magatama gone I only have Mirror and a scary beast with an umbrella left to beat. Former will have the dream team of Byakuren, Reimu and Shikieiki (with Yuugi) and the latter will be Yakumo clan (with Kasen).
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So did a Skype Call with a friend and did Screensharing while I went through the postgame and....
I got to the Great [C] and suddenly I'm holding my sides trying to fight it and not laugh so hard while she goes on about how it's The Great Cookie. Even after I managed to beat it the Cookie jokes still kept going.
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ok being a sorcerer hina useless... her painflow is god tier nuke now. For example, flan hits a boss for 12k... hina's pain flow hit for 34k. everyone else for like 3-5k. I don't even have high mag equipment on my hina, egads.
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So did a Skype Call with a friend and did Screensharing while I went through the postgame and....
I got to the Great [C] and suddenly I'm holding my sides trying to fight it and not laugh so hard while she goes on about how it's The Great Cookie. Even after I managed to beat it the Cookie jokes still kept going.
I trough it was a evil pumpkin, On what are the strengthen bosses based? I know guardian of the crystals is Culex from Super mario RPG, what about the other 3?
Great C
Desire Eater
The Second sun
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ok being a sorcerer hina useless... her painflow is god tier nuke now. For example, flan hits a boss for 12k... hina's pain flow hit for 34k. everyone else for like 3-5k. I don't even have high mag equipment on my hina, egads.
You weren't kidding about that, just did a quick test on it myself. Gambler Hina vs. Gambler Flandre, both hitting the last boss with their dark type nukes. Hina got 900k+ damage with -40% debuffs and herb of awakening on her, Flandre got similar numbers with a +40% ATK buff (no herb though). What gives this round to Hina though is that her MAG was less than half of what Flandre's ATK was (25k vs. 55k). Overall I still think Flandre wins for two reasons:
1) setup time is lower since Hina needs to first get the debuffs on everyone, then concentrate to get them on herself and then finally attack with Pain Flow. And then repeat the same again if the enemy still lives.
2) having massive debuffs on your allies is not the best of ideas in tough boss fights, even for a short while, and god mode Byakuren don't really work with it.
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you don't need to debuff your allies for it though, just hina herself, and her final passive skill does that all on its own. You can also just use misfortune when your allies out have high debuff resistance, and she'll debuff herself even faster (not even sure if higher level debuffs matter so much as just having more). I have parsee and patchy in my group, and they already have super debuff resistance at base, which is easy enough to accomplish with equipment or whatever (except at the very start of the game of course)
That said I don't wanna make mine a gambler just cuz her defenses are actually not too shabby, and don't wanna ruin that.
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That said I don't wanna make mine a gambler just cuz her defenses are actually not too shabby, and don't wanna ruin that.
Yea that makes sense, I just wanted to be able to compare the two nukers on a more even ground in my test. Although, most of the damage boost gambler gets comes from the double MP cost (+60%) rather than the increased damage taken (30%) so you could still get more damage out of it compared to sorceress without losing her tankiness. Whether or not the increased damage is worth having the MP consumption problems is another story though...
Now that my enhanced boss "challenge" is completed, I'm trying to think of a fun and interesting way to fight the remaining bosses. So far the best idea I've come up with is banning Flandre from the party, since killing bosses when they get 0-1 turns isn't very interesting. :P
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You weren't kidding about that, just did a quick test on it myself. Gambler Hina vs. Gambler Flandre, both hitting the last boss with their dark type nukes. Hina got 900k+ damage with -40% debuffs and herb of awakening on her, Flandre got similar numbers with a +40% ATK buff (no herb though). What gives this round to Hina though is that her MAG was less than half of what Flandre's ATK was (25k vs. 55k). Overall I still think Flandre wins for two reasons:
1) setup time is lower since Hina needs to first get the debuffs on everyone, then concentrate to get them on herself and then finally attack with Pain Flow. And then repeat the same again if the enemy still lives.
2) having massive debuffs on your allies is not the best of ideas in tough boss fights, even for a short while, and god mode Byakuren don't really work with it.
Uh, disregarding the Herb of Awakening discrepancy, -40% for Hina is +80% for other characters. Might want to redo your tests with that in mind before coming to a conclusion like that...
1)Set up time is not much different, though its likely safer for Hina. You do have a point about the boss surviving the hit though.
2)Byakuren can work with Hina just fine. There's no reason Byakuren shouldn't be immune to debuffs and if you're playing with Hina in the party, you'd have characters that are immune or nigh immune to debuffs already (like Parsee for example). Anyone that's not just needs some debuff resistance and they're good to go.
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Uh, disregarding the Herb of Awakening discrepancy, -40% for Hina is +80% for other characters. Might want to redo your tests with that in mind before coming to a conclusion like that...
1)Set up time is not much different, though its likely safer for Hina. You do have a point about the boss surviving the hit though.
2)Byakuren can work with Hina just fine. There's no reason Byakuren shouldn't be immune to debuffs and if you're playing with Hina in the party, you'd have characters that are immune or nigh immune to debuffs already (like Parsee for example). Anyone that's not just needs some debuff resistance and they're good to go.
You did notice I mentioned the huge difference in their respective attack stats as well? I'm well aware of the effect of Curse Reversal, but the point of the quick test was not to set them on an even ground. I just wanted to see for myself if Hina can reach the "Flandre level" of damage with a bit of effort. Since I use Flandre for the end boss gem farm I've gotten her an ATK buff of 80% with herb of awakening, which makes Starbow Break hit for 1,5 million damage.
As for the setup comment, I find Flandre to be faster since you can just copy Byakuren's buffs on her before she even gets a turn, whereas Hina needs to do all the heavy lifting herself to set herself up for the damage. This of course applies only to longer fights you don't plan to end in a couple of hits and where Flandre is waiting safely in the back row for her turn.
I guess the Byakuren comment came out a bit wrong, since the setting I had in mind for the combo was a first turn nuke without dedicated DBF resistances. In a similar setting to Flandre's back row waiting, fully buffed Byakuren with DBF resistance can just shrug off Hina's debuffs and then share her buffs to an ally that hasn't got that high DBF resistance (or got unlucky). Hina can then do her own thing without having to worry about the others and since she's rather bulky after getting some debuffs, she shouldn't be in much danger. Focusing on using a party with high natural/built DBF resistance just for the sake of making Hina non-detrimental to you only applies to main game in my opinion, since for post game bosses those kind of parties aren't likely very effective.
All in all, which character you prefer to use depends not only on the enemy you're fighting but the playstyle you want to have. Both are entirely capable of filling the role of a nuker. Flandre has an edge with bigger numbers and more frequent attacks, Hina has an added benefit of debuffing the enemy in addition to being quite bulky.
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I trough it was a evil pumpkin, On what are the strengthen bosses based? I know guardian of the crystals is Culex from Super mario RPG, what about the other 3?
Great C
Desire Eater
The Second sun
Thanks to the exclusive item drop (which is IIRC named after an upgrade from it) and the whole concept (multiplying cookies), I'm 99% sure that the Great [C] is basically one big Cookie Clicker reference. No idea about the other two.
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Thanks to the exclusive item drop (which is IIRC named after an upgrade from it) and the whole concept (multiplying cookies), I'm 99% sure that the Great [C] is basically one big Cookie Clicker reference. No idea about the other two.
Their exclusive drop is the same reference as the boss.
The Desire Eating Demon is from Ultimate Survivor Kaiji. The item dropped by the boss is a dice that references a gambling game in the manga series (the item is a reference to that, not sure what the boss himself is a reference to what/who in the series)
The Second Sun is a reference to "God" in the Full Metal Daemon: Muramasa visual novel. The item dropped by the boss is the sword of the main armor.
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So... Kanako is surprisingly awesome.
Pros:
- bulk means she wont die from the physical attack equivalent of a sneeze (looks at patchy)
- has decent natural mp recovery and MP restoring skills, so Mp consumption isn't really a problem (looks at Kags)
- Terrific Elemental Coverage (looks at Marrissa)
- Part of the Moriya shrine which includes fellow awesome members sanae and suwako.
Give her a try, i was pleasantly surprised by how useful she was in both randoms (virtue of the wind god spam) and boss battles (inflict heavy with mad dance and nuke with spring like suiga).
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So... Kanako is surprisingly awesome.
Pros:
- bulk means she wont die from the physical attack equivalent of a sneeze (looks at patchy)
- has decent natural mp recovery and MP restoring skills, so Mp consumption isn't really a problem (looks at Kags)
- Terrific Elemental Coverage (looks at Marrissa)
- Part of the Moriya shrine which includes fellow awesome members sanae and suwako.
Give her a try, i was pleasantly surprised by how useful she was in both randoms (virtue of the wind god spam) and boss battles (inflict heavy with mad dance and nuke with spring like suiga).
Except your second point is not a valid comparison when Kaguya's play style is obviously hit and run, with Desire to Rest being almost all the MP restoration she needs and Thousand Year Exile making up the little bit Desire to Rest isn't able to give. I don't usually need to do this since I rarely run out of MP on her for boss fights but when I do need to, I can just give her a Jogurt Doll and that's more than enough.
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Kanako -is- pretty great. In postgame though, it's hard to make her damage and bulkiness manage to keep up, and at that point Sanae IMO gets outclassed pretty hard by people like Byakuren and Renko. But for the main game, she's fab.
There's more good bulky attackers than there was in LoT1 in general though, but Kanako's elemental coverage and useful passives does put her up there. Wind God is a pretty good "I don't feel like fighting this random battle" button, too; it's worth the mp cost (assuming the enemies don't resist wnd or all magics or whatever.)
Speaking of bulk though, some people are bulkier than you'd think. I found Rumia to be a pleasant surprise there, even without the 9 team bonus, for example. Her fast level rate and very cheap library levels helped make up for her base stats (and her base mnd was significantly buffed in a rebalance; her mnd is actually really high now in practice) plus I gave her Transcendent. The 9 team members can really stand on their own, I should try actually using them -together- in my next run.
...mm. I did have to give Rumia one of those "ridiculously huge HP buff" equipments though. Late in the game you start getting more of those than you can use though, so that's fine.
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So kanako's spell formulas are seemingly better than 1's? I loved kanako on paper in 1 but after actually using her i felt that she was a very boring meh character. Virtue despite its cost wasnt as potent a trash clearer as youmu's karma blade, or yuyu's flawless, or patchy's spells, etc. and suiga was not really impressive either unless the enemy was weak to cold. Granted being able to aoe trash with defense OR mnd targeting nukes was cool. Im not saying she sucked but she really wasnt anything special in any way.
Maybe ill try her again, im still dumbfounded at how much of a monster rumia is... Though variety of elements isnt much of a point either when you have arm twisting =p.
Im at 13f now... Sighh... Lot2's 13f-15f are by far my least fave thing in the series other than 30f grinding and dat binary floor which is only one floor.
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It's either the formulas or the stats of Kanako herself but I had her in my party several times now together with Sanae and while the Moriya buff is noticeable she can hold her own.
Even in Post-game.
It's a bit risky to utilize her full potential though since she needs to be half dead for that.
Floors 13 to 15 are a bit tedious, granted, but at least the music is nice and the enemies not too annoying. :V
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Kanako does have a lot of things going in her favour when compared to other nukers. Good defensive stats, useful skills (unlike Suwako, I mean bonus damage when in the first slot wth?) and spell cards that use elements few other nukers have access to, mainly SPI and cold. Not only that, her SPI attack can cause HVY and Suiga can lower attack stats, so her offense isn't just pretty numbers either. Moriya shrine buff is just bonus if you like using Sanae to buff up nukers like me. :)
Having said that, she doesn't get the same damage numbers as the other nukers so I would only consider using her if she can hit a boss's weakness (post game that is).
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Im at 13f now... Sighh... Lot2's 13f-15f are by far my least fave thing in the series other than 30f grinding and dat binary floor which is only one floor.
It's not worse than 10F-12F in LoT1, you have to admit that. Nothing is worse than that between both games. Nothing.
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It's not worse than 10F-12F in LoT1, you have to admit that. Nothing is worse than that between both games. Nothing.
30F
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So... Kanako is surprisingly awesome.
Pros:
- bulk means she wont die from the physical attack equivalent of a sneeze (looks at patchy)
- has decent natural mp recovery and MP restoring skills, so Mp consumption isn't really a problem (looks at Kags)
- Terrific Elemental Coverage (looks at Marrissa)
- Part of the Moriya shrine which includes fellow awesome members sanae and suwako.
Give her a try, i was pleasantly surprised by how useful she was in both randoms (virtue of the wind god spam) and boss battles (inflict heavy with mad dance and nuke with spring like suiga).
Marisa has Sheer Force, so her lack of elemental coverage doesn't matter.
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Lack of coverage still matters; sheer force helps, but Marisa still takes a significant hit to her damage. As well, Kanako's coverage lets her hit lots of weaknesses, not just avoid resisted elements.
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It's not worse than 10F-12F in LoT1, you have to admit that. Nothing is worse than that between both games. Nothing.
Wth is so bad about 10-12f in lot1? I actually like that part of the game. It has 2 different battle bgms, a good field bgm, the most effing huge variety of enemies any dungeon has. Demon tops are annoying yes but not as bad as many other monsters other floors have, ditto for the eyes of twilight, which while more annoying only appear in a relatively small portion of the area.
Plus its like a relatively complex maze without much blind dumb luck or photographic memorization reauired unlike the effing drop holes in lot2s lava zone.
Its so much worse its.... SO much worse.
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I found Lot2 13-15fpure hell, i had to make a notepad and write which orb at what place changed the temperature at how many degrees, LoT1 30F was heaven for me,bosses v3/2 with the best drops in the game? yes please
The only thing i hated about 30F was how The Hibachi twins/Serpent and WINNER drops werent 100%, Oh you didnt get them? time to redo the battle!
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30f is fine on its own minus the fact that the game suddenly rewuires you to virtually double your effing level just for one floor. (For bosses not trash).
And you mean 13f-15f, the dispute is lot2 13-15f is worse than lot1 10-12f. I LIKE 10-12f in lot1, but 13-15f i wgree is hell.
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but 13-15f i wgree is hell.
Well the place is on fire so I can see the resemblance :P
The one issue I see with 13-15F is that's its a HUGE Trial and Error set of puzzles. Without the help of say a Map or anything,, you're stuck walking to spot, see you can't go through cause the temperature isn't right, then go back to where the switches are to change it so you can go through it. And then you throw in holes that lead to the previous floor's areas you couldn't get to...with holes leading to areas you already were in.
The only thing that makes it bearable is the enemies are some of the easiest in the game to kill.
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Odd, I never found 13F-15F to be too annoying. Most of the temperature puzzles were separated and once you got to a relay point you had different access points to get where you needed with the temperature you needed. I disliked the the next set of floors (16F-18F) more on my first playthrough, when I spent 10 minutes trying to figure out how to get back to a location I had been in once before. On the second playthrough it wasn't so bad anymore since I more or less memorised the "good" arrows to take.
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30f is fine on its own minus the fact that the game suddenly rewuires you to virtually double your effing level just for one floor. (For bosses not trash).
And you mean 13f-15f, the dispute is lot2 13-15f is worse than lot1 10-12f. I LIKE 10-12f in lot1, but 13-15f i wgree is hell.
13-15F, my bad, i corrected it, Doesnt help that you must find out in WHICH SPECIFIC GAP YOU MUST FALL in order to progress, otherwise walk ALL the way back to other gap :V, the pros is that is a nice grinding place meanwhile and the background music isnt bad
To be honest, those are floors are precisely the reason i havent done a second play-trough
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The bgm is pretty good but i like 1-3f's quite a bit more.
Problem with lot2's map design is actually its art style, it looks nicer in lot2 but the circles have no "walls" outside of simply no having another circle nearby. This makes it harder to maze since you cant have 2 areas right next to each other that are seperated, not to mention there is no 1 way wall capabilities short of having an arrow event.
Do you guys favor the nicer looking maps in lot2 or the more "functional ones in 1?
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The bgm is pretty good but i like 1-3f's quite a bit more.
Problem with lot2's map design is actually its art style, it looks nicer in lot2 but the circles have no "walls" outside of simply no having another circle nearby. This makes it harder to maze since you cant have 2 areas right next to each other that are seperated, not to mention there is no 1 way wall capabilities short of having an arrow event.
Do you guys favor the nicer looking maps in lot2 or the more "functional ones in 1?
I still cant see how LoT1 maps are more functional than LoT2 maps
One irritating example i remember was Lot1 18F, so many one sided ways that just had a item or dumped you back to the beggining,its either that or i dont understand your sentence at all :ohdear:
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I couldn't hate 16-18th floor. I liked the music on those floors too much.
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On the subject of 14F, how do I activate this warp?
http://i.imgur.com/7hFnSwU.png
I'm going off memory, but I believe this floor has a +15, +5, and -10 control. I never found anything else, so I can't see any way to lower it to 30-35
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On the subject of 14F, how do I activate this warp?
http://i.imgur.com/7hFnSwU.png
I'm going off memory, but I believe this floor has a +15, +5, and -10 control. I never found anything else, so I can't see any way to lower it to 30-35
There's a -8 near Yuyuko.
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On the subject of 14F, how do I activate this warp?
http://i.imgur.com/7hFnSwU.png
I'm going off memory, but I believe this floor has a +15, +5, and -10 control. I never found anything else, so I can't see any way to lower it to 30-35
Seeing that the current temperature is 55, just add +5 once and -10 three times to reach 30, or at least -10 twice to reach 35.
I think...
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Seeing that the current temperature is 55, just add +5 once and -10 three times to reach 30, or at least -10 twice to reach 35.
I think...
Yeah uh...that's not how it works at all. Just need to flip the +5 switch to off, flip the -10 switch on, and find the -8 switch to set it to 32.
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Ah, I see. Thanks for the correction Axel.
Kanako does have a lot of things going in her favour when compared to other nukers. Good defensive stats, useful skills (unlike Suwako, I mean bonus damage when in the first slot wth?) and spell cards that use elements few other nukers have access to, mainly SPI and cold. Not only that, her SPI attack can cause HVY and Suiga can lower attack stats, so her offense isn't just pretty numbers either. Moriya shrine buff is just bonus if you like using Sanae to buff up nukers like me. :)
Having said that, she doesn't get the same damage numbers as the other nukers so I would only consider using her if she can hit a boss's weakness (post game that is).
And that's why "Ability to create Heaven" and "Ability to create Earth" need to have their effects switched, as the buff for being in front would benefit a bulky mage more than a glass cannon, and the buff for being in the back would actually make sense for a glass cannon to have in the first place.
That said, I also wish that said skills would also reduce damage, too. More so for Suwako than Kanako, since Suwako needs something to help her survive a hit so that she can use her "Native God of Earth" skill to get out and heal up fast, although I would still want to give her the Guts skill to give her a 50/50 chance of surviving any hit for the sake of said skill...
I just realized something... Suwako may be the best person to use the Warrior/Sorcerer skill that increases damage for having full HP, since she can heal herself fully by switching out, thus re-activating it.
Also, I wish that the Gambler subclass had a skill that increased the damage that you deal in exchange for a loss of HP every time you attack with a spellcard(the side effect of Starbow Break on all spellcards, in other words). That way, people who don't care about how much HP they have left can use it to increase their power, and people who do care due to skills can actually activate them themselves if they want/need to.
Marisa has Sheer Force, so her lack of elemental coverage doesn't matter.
Lack of coverage still matters; sheer force helps, but Marisa still takes a significant hit to her damage. As well, Kanako's coverage lets her hit lots of weaknesses, not just avoid resisted elements.
And this is why many people, myself included, have noticed that Toxicologist can actually fix that, since it gives Marisa four additional elements to work with, and her Sheer Force also ignores ailment resistance, which actually matters for anyone using that subclass in the first place(good chance of slowing people down with Heavy? Weakening a boss with Poison? Yes, please!). Also, since she did have Earthlight Ray as a row attack in the first game, the spell could work as a set of four different versions of that spell, both in element and effect.
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Finally completed all challenges, i guess my party is ready for post-game
and i was honestly sick of grinding so much but the perfectionist side of my brain kept bugging me for that non shining circle
(http://i.imgur.com/o9GPjIl.png)
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I hated 10-12F in LoT1. I don't remember enough about those floors to explain in detail why since its been too long since I played LoT1 (And LoT1 is definitely a game where I wouldn't replay save for New Game Plus which I haven't even gotten yet) but I definitely know that I hated going through those floors. 13-15F in LoT2 is simple book keeping (and for that matter 16F-18F was also simple book keeping that I will admit I ignored).
You can't bemoan trial and error gameplay in LoT2 when LoT1 had the exact same crap just on different floors. How else were you supposed to realize the teleporter on 13F was based on the various switches having binary values which determined the destination based on totals?Ah, I see. Thanks for the correction Axel.
And that's why "Ability to create Heaven" and "Ability to create Earth" need to have their effects switched, as the buff for being in front would benefit a bulky mage more than a glass cannon, and the buff for being in the back would actually make sense for a glass cannon to have in the first place.
They've had their effects switched for awhile now, as far as in game description is concerned (actual in game description, not just the translation patch). I don't remember if the bug about the effects not actually working was fixed or not though.
The bgm is pretty good but i like 1-3f's quite a bit more.
Problem with lot2's map design is actually its art style, it looks nicer in lot2 but the circles have no "walls" outside of simply no having another circle nearby. This makes it harder to maze since you cant have 2 areas right next to each other that are seperated, not to mention there is no 1 way wall capabilities short of having an arrow event.
Do you guys favor the nicer looking maps in lot2 or the more "functional ones in 1?
I still cant see how LoT1 maps are more functional than LoT2 maps
One irritating example i remember was Lot1 18F, so many one sided ways that just had a item or dumped you back to the beggining,its either that or i dont understand your sentence at all :ohdear:
I think what Ghaleon is trying to get at is that there's less room, so to speak, for the floors since you can't have "walls" in LoT2 without the tiles being one space apart from each other. If that's not it, I completely misread your post Ghaleon.
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@ Kirin no Sora
I still think the best subclass for Suwako is Gambler. She gets Flandre tier damage with it. And she's already very squishy anyway. (When I was first playing the game I spent lots of money in her defense because her defenses looked so bad to me...)
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I hated 10-12F in LoT1. I don't remember enough about those floors to explain in detail why since its been too long since I played LoT1 (And LoT1 is definitely a game where I wouldn't replay save for New Game Plus which I haven't even gotten yet) but I definitely know that I hated going through those floors. 13-15F in LoT2 is simple book keeping (and for that matter 16F-18F was also simple book keeping that I will admit I ignored).
You can't bemoan trial and error gameplay in LoT2 when LoT1 had the exact same crap just on different floors. How else were you supposed to realize the teleporter on 13F was based on the various switches having binary values which determined the destination based on totals?
But I can, because I said the only thing worse or as bad is the 30f grind AND the stupid binary floor which was fortunately only 1 floor. That said I thought it was pretty obvious the switches had a binary mechanic...However the thing about that floor which sucked was the fact that the addresses you input for treasures and/or next floor were completely arbitrary, and the clues were incomprehensible even if you knew exactly what the floor mechanic was! Not to mention there were no clues at all for certain important areas. It's not like I'm wearing rose glasses here, I said those 2 things in lot1 were horribad too, but the lot2 gripe is worse for me since it's 3 floors long, and is required for the main game instead of some end post game nonsense that really doesn't hurt you if you just ignore it after doing it the first time (30f)...now when I play lot1 I just do serpent and just call it a game..and/or cheat engine some levels, which is still a pain because I have to try and cheat engine enough levels that isn't overkill, and I have to try and predict an appropriate number of skillpoints too, blech.
I think what Ghaleon is trying to get at is that there's less room, so to speak, for the floors since you can't have "walls" in LoT2 without the tiles being one space apart from each other. If that's not it, I completely misread your post Ghaleon.
That's just part of the equation. By having wall mechanics included in each and every tile, some shapes and patterns can't actually be replicated in the current system simply by doubling "spacing" each tile. I can't think of any PRACTICAL examples off hand, but just imagine an open area (or a hall that's like 2-3 tiles wide), where they suddenly split off further down (imagine an '=' appearing an an open box). Double spacing is incapable of this without forcing the player to move perpendicular to the "emulated wall" at the beginning of it, but what this means is that the walls might not vanish further down the hall, or end in a zig-zag on their own seperately, or a combination of both (maybe the bottom merges back into the center, and the top zigzags off)...
It's hard to explain, but the fact is lot1's mechanics just enable more elaborate maze patterns that lot2 cannot do, and not just cuz of size.
Plus the 1 way wall tile things isn't about liking them or disliking them, it's about more options/capabilities. I personally found the 18f 1 way maze gimmick to be kinda interesting. Even if you don't like it, the simple fact is I'm sure I'm not the only one who liked it, and it cannot be done in lot2 without spamming arrows absolutely everywhere. And even that wouldn't really do much since arrows don't neccesarily "teleport" you one square away, you would just be trusting they would on that floor but they might not. There are a couple floors in lot2 with arrows that transport you thru walls in a predictable fashion, then it has an oddball one or two that do not, which would screw up the whole trust thing with what I mentioned (not to mention it would look like an awful incomprehensible purple blob on the 'a' map).
edit: I seem to recall noticing it before and mentioning it, and being shot down, but I'm like super certain now...but it seems that elemental resistances are calculated PRIOR to mnd/defense reduction... in lot1 it was the reverse... meaning characters with alot of an appropriate elemental resistance still took damage from something that was capable of punching thru their defenses.. but in lot2, even "squishy" characters can take a 0 from a hit that nails other characters if they have significantly more resistance.
Basically this makes elemental resistances way way better than lot1, not that I'm saying they stunk in 1, but point for point, in lot2, worth way more.
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There's a -8 near Yuyuko.
Thanks, but... where was Yuyuko?
I gave the map another quick inspection, but all of the ! I checked were just holes.
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Thanks, but... where was Yuyuko?
I gave the map another quick inspection, but all of the ! I checked were just holes.
Start from 15F relay point, take the staircase down to 14F and use the arrow teleporter next to you. That area has the Yuyuko fight and the -8 degrees orb.
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I wasn't paying attention when you guys were talking about characters in the Append Disk but as I was reading through the Materials' descriptions, this made me think that Yamame is going to be added.
[attach=1]
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I wasn't paying attention when you guys were talking about characters in the Append Disk but as I was reading through the Materials' descriptions, this made me think that Yamame is going to be added.
[attach=1]
Uh oh. Yamame vs Wriggle, who's the better Poison inflicter!
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Start from 15F relay point, take the staircase down to 14F and use the arrow teleporter next to you. That area has the Yuyuko fight and the -8 degrees orb.
Thanks!
Training manuals are always nice. I was afraid it'd be some item that I outgrew 6 floors ago.
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edit: I seem to recall noticing it before and mentioning it, and being shot down, but I'm like super certain now...but it seems that elemental resistances are calculated PRIOR to mnd/defense reduction... in lot1 it was the reverse... meaning characters with alot of an appropriate elemental resistance still took damage from something that was capable of punching thru their defenses.. but in lot2, even "squishy" characters can take a 0 from a hit that nails other characters if they have significantly more resistance.
Basically this makes elemental resistances way way better than lot1, not that I'm saying they stunk in 1, but point for point, in lot2, worth way more.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16978.msg1104714.html#msg1104714
Actually, you were the one of the people who shot it down. :P
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I apologize, though I do know what i said was true (i remember it now ), maybe its pre-mit for players but post for monsters though?
I really doubt it but maybe its different via spell formulas too? Like they all have a pre and post affinity portion.
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Also something interesting I found while looking through the text files:
0086295C: Leading Role
00862930: For Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Youmu, Sanae, Aya,
008628D8: Yukari, Alice, Remilia, Yuyuko, Suika, Patchouli, Nitori, Kanako, Suwako
00862860: If any character that was previously partnered as player character is in the front row, then the user's overall stats will increase.
00862800: The higher the skill level, and the more partner characters are present, the higher the increase will be.
Anyone who doesn't know what team of 12 they want to play with for their replay should just pick from that set. Even though the skill wasn't implemented, I think its pretty neat that they had the idea there.
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I'd imagine Yamame being the offensive Wriggle. But she wouldn't just use poison, she would also probably apply heavy and paralysis. Maybe insta death.
@jaxter0987
I wouldn't have liked an ability like that. Would seem unfair and kind of biased if it were implemented.
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Well reimu's passives are pretty awful imo so it wouldnt be uniformly biased imo. Of course someone like nitori having it would be lawl.
That said i dont care for the whole idea of passive buffs thy activate if specific other characters are in the front row. Mostly because i. Kinda dissuades the player from having a truly custom party as opposed to quasi-cookie-cutter sub parties being favored.
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Well reimu's passives are pretty awful imo so it wouldnt be uniformly biased imo. Of course someone like nitori having it would be lawl.
That said i dont care for the whole idea of passive buffs thy activate if specific other characters are in the front row. Mostly because i. Kinda dissuades the player from having a truly custom party as opposed to quasi-cookie-cutter sub parties being favored.
Meh, I didn't and still don't care about those passives. Here's my main party
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69830990/Stuffs/Team.PNG)
Reimu and Renko are Enchanter
Minoriko and Sanae are Magician
Alice and Yuuka are Transcendent
Byakuren is Strategist
Aya is Monk
Komachi is Healer
Wriggle is Herbalist
Kaguya is Sorcerer
Eiki is Warrior
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Honestly at that level I'm not sure if subclasses even matter, you can probably overpower the postgame final boss through sheer stats
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Honestly at that level I'm not sure if subclasses even matter, you can probably overpower the postgame final boss through sheer stats
And certain tough bosses you forgot to fight in time are toothless.
[attach=1]
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Honestly at that level I'm not sure if subclasses even matter, you can probably overpower the postgame final boss through sheer stats
For a full team you're right, for my Team 9 run I essentially had to be around this level to stand a chance against it, even with subclasses. Then again it may have just been a result of not adequately preparing for the one part of the fight that will murder you if you're not prepared somewhere around the second phase.
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Hello, I can't pass through certain strange bushes on 8F just to get Yuuka (she is just in the area I can't access due to these plants).
Previously two of these dissapeared when I checked them before but I don't know what was needed, however it's sure that these bushes will dissapear if certain conditions are satisfied.
Simply I don't know what to do with them, here's a screen of the situation...
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v8FnaeXMhBA/VBogvUBbRTI/AAAAAAAAAmY/VO0VoxPzYMM/s640/wanting%25202%2520get%2520through%2520hte%2520bushes%2520geez.png)
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v8FnaeXMhBA/VBogvUBbRTI/AAAAAAAAAmY/VO0VoxPzYMM/s640/wanting%25202%2520get%2520through%2520hte%2520bushes%2520geez.png (http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v8FnaeXMhBA/VBogvUBbRTI/AAAAAAAAAmY/VO0VoxPzYMM/s640/wanting%25202%2520get%2520through%2520hte%2520bushes%2520geez.png)
I've only 3 remaining bushes to remove.
Oh, yes, I checked the Touhou Wiki but the information isn't clear, I tried that in the way I stood but nothing happened...
- Clear all the bushes on 8F by getting enough BP with the necessary characters to pass events on the following floors:
- 3F (Minoriko 100 BP); 5F (Wriggle 120 BP); 8F (Utsuho 120 BP and Minoriko 200 BP); 10F (Nitori 150 BP and Minoriko 300 BP); 13F (Cirno 200 BP and Minoriko 400 BP)
- Defeat Yuuka behind the bushes to recruit her.
Finally these are the BP (Battle Points) in each mentioned character:
- Minoriko: She has 961BP.
- Wriggle: She has 2475BP.
- Utsuho: She has 350BP.
- Nitori: She has 207BP.
- Cirno: She has 3219BP.
And that's all, I'll be looking forward to your reply.
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Like the title says is there a fullscreen mode for Touhou labyrinth 2?
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Nope. The best you can do is stretch the window, though doing so will make the graphics grainier
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Hello, I can't pass through certain strange bushes on 8F just to get Yuuka (she is just in the area I can't access due to these plants).
Previously two of these dissapeared when I checked them before but I don't know what was needed, however it's sure that these bushes will dissapear if certain conditions are satisfied.
Simply I don't know what to do with them, here's a screen of the situation...
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v8FnaeXMhBA/VBogvUBbRTI/AAAAAAAAAmY/VO0VoxPzYMM/s640/wanting%25202%2520get%2520through%2520hte%2520bushes%2520geez.png)
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v8FnaeXMhBA/VBogvUBbRTI/AAAAAAAAAmY/VO0VoxPzYMM/s640/wanting%25202%2520get%2520through%2520hte%2520bushes%2520geez.png (http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v8FnaeXMhBA/VBogvUBbRTI/AAAAAAAAAmY/VO0VoxPzYMM/s640/wanting%25202%2520get%2520through%2520hte%2520bushes%2520geez.png)
I've only 3 remaining bushes to remove.
Oh, yes, I checked the Touhou Wiki but the information isn't clear, I tried that in the way I stood but nothing happened...Finally these are the BP (Battle Points) in each mentioned character:
- Minoriko: She has 961BP.
- Wriggle: She has 2475BP.
- Utsuho: She has 350BP.
- Nitori: She has 207BP.
- Cirno: She has 3219BP.
And that's all, I'll be looking forward to your reply.
Have you tried going to each floor and checking to see if you missed any events?
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Honestly at that level I'm not sure if subclasses even matter, you can probably overpower the postgame final boss through sheer stats
Oh I already completely finished postgame. That was just me showing off what my team is currently like for when Append Disk comes out.
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yay, kinda sorta done 12-15f... sorta kinda cuz byakuren's scroll still hasn't dropped and I haven't beat up yuyu,eiki,giant, and yukari yet. but I've fully explored everything I can without beating em (which is nearly everything). I keep hearing that 14f is the best place to farm for the scroll, any particular area of it?
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Just take the warp to the 15th floor and go down the stairs.
I've found it there rather quickly.
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Just take the warp to the 15th floor and go down the stairs.
I've found it there rather quickly.
I tried that for 8 levels but no dice...but I tried it because that was my best guess too so thanks! Pretty sure your opinion was based on much research like my own.
Anyway, I got it now (not from the above part but I don't think it would have mattered so whatever)...
incidentally if it does matter (possible even if improbable), I got it from one of those slime/ooze things (encounter had 3 and nothing else, got it from them).
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They've had their effects switched for awhile now, as far as in game description is concerned (actual in game description, not just the translation patch). I don't remember if the bug about the effects not actually working was fixed or not though.
By "switched", do you mean that it says that Suwako should be in the back and Kanako in the front for their skills? Because if it does say that, then that proves that the skills were bugged in the first place. (Also, if it does say that, then the wiki should reflect that.)
...perhaps someone should just list here which spells and skills are not working as they're supposed to, so that the changes can be made on the wiki more easily due to the info being available on hand. I would more than happy to put the changes in so long as someone can provide the info about the spells and skills as they are now...
On an unrelated note, although Tenshi is fine as she is now, I still feel like I should say something about her in terms of skills. Namely, that she should be given Guts, should the unexpected happen. Since Tenshi is a tank that uses defensive power to block as much damage as possible, having something that can allow her to survive something that can pierce said defences would be useful.
...And I just realized that her "Kusanagi's Former Owner" skill can easily be activated by the Guardian's "Shield Defence" spell, since it inflicts a Speed debuff on the user, which is needed to activate the skill in the first place. The Guardian's skill set would be helpful for Tenshi in the first place, since being a defensive tank is half of what Tenshi is about...
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By "switched", do you mean that it says that Suwako should be in the back and Kanako in the front for their skills? Because if it does say that, then that proves that the skills were bugged in the first place. (Also, if it does say that, then the wiki should reflect that.)
...perhaps someone should just list here which spells and skills are not working as they're supposed to, so that the changes can be made on the wiki more easily due to the info being available on hand. I would more than happy to put the changes in so long as someone can provide the info about the spells and skills as they are now...
...And I just realized that her "Kusanagi's Former Owner" skill can easily be activated by the Guardian's "Shield Defence" spell, since it inflicts a Speed debuff on the user, which is needed to activate the skill in the first place. The Guardian's skill set would be helpful for Tenshi in the first place, since being a defensive tank is half of what Tenshi is about...
Ignore what I said about their skills.
In my daze of lack of sleep or something, I misread "right" and "left" respectively for Kanako and Suwako.
I think I've said this before but I'd be fine with Suwako's skill being the far left because that means you have to have excellent party management to know when you can safely take advantage of the damage boost. I certainly hope that those skill descriptions are mistakes though. Best case scenario would have to be that the translators just plain didn't fix the lines and Peso already fixed the issue.
Suwako should definitely be rightmost slot for sure but Kanako is not quite tanky enough for leftmost spot in my opinion. If she was built that tanky, then even with the damage boost from the skill, I don't think she'd be doing any damage.
I'd rather just raise Tenshi's Paralysis resistance while not raising her Heavy resistance and let State of Enlightment activate Kusanagi's Former Owner. She needs the debuff resistance on my team since I'm using Hina, but in general, I think all tanks need debuff resistance. Even if you don't care about their attack stats, losing defenses on a tank isn't fun and arguably the worse debuff for a tank is a Speed debuff. Speed debuff limits your switching potential, limits your regeneration (Byakuren, Mokou, Komachi), and just limits your usefulness overall (Byakuren spreading god buffs, Komachi debuffing enemies with Avici) and limits all the options for subclass use.
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I certainly hope that those skill descriptions are mistakes though. Best case scenario would have to be that the translators just plain didn't fix the lines and Peso already fixed the issue.
Well right now the translated skill descriptions are correct. Suwako gets a damage boost in the left spot and Kanako in the right spot. Not only do their respective skill buffs appear when they're on the right position, I tested to see the damage difference myself.
I think I've said this before but I'd be fine with Suwako's skill being the far left because that means you have to have excellent party management to know when you can safely take advantage of the damage boost.
If you consider that these abilities are working as intended, it truly promotes Kanako's role as the sturdy nuker in the 4th spot but also Suwako's role as the hit-and-run nuker where position doesn't really matter anyway.
EDIT: So I thought I'd make a guide on the two boss fights missing from the wiki, Guardian of the crystals and Desire-Eating Demon, but it didn't go so well. Against the Guardian with a lvl 152 party and ~100 voile levels my party just explodes in a few turns and even with heavy buffs on my nukers barely made a dent on the Guardian. I don't think it would be much of a guide if it said "buff Flandre and nuke them out of orbit" or "with lvl 200 party it's much easier". Does anyone have some tips to make that fight doable without resorting to overbuffing? Though I suppose my lvl 100 in voile levels is way too low at this point in game, but it cost several million to get ALL the characters up to that level and I'm rather broke now.
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So I've finally gotten around to playing this game. Up to 12F, and I'm really enjoying it so far (which I suppose isn't really a surprise, since the first one is one of my favourite games of all time and this is basically the same except with more convenient features :V).
But anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any tips for beating the 12F boss that isn't the mirror at the challenge level? I can sort of survive it for a bit by using a party full of physically defensive people and keeping everyone buffed, but said people don't do very much damage (especially since I pretty much need them fully built for DEF to survive) and eventually my tanks go down to it either spamming the piercing multitarget move or following the HP-to-1 attack with something that goes through my defenses. And the thing's insane speed makes the usual switch-in switch-out style nuking almost impossible to pull off.
I suppose I could just go grinding for a bit, but since I've managed to beat every other boss so far at the challenge level, it feels like sort of a shame to break the streak now.
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I found that boss to be the hardest boss in the main game, though mostly because your party options are rather limited at that stage in game. If you struggle in keeping up with the boss you could check if your voile levels are up/close to the challenge level, atleast on your key characters. Since the boss is weak against dark, you could see which of your dark attackers can hit the hardest. Kasen is pretty good in that fight for example. If you still can't beat it, you could post the party you're using for some improvement suggestions.
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If you consider that these abilities are working as intended, it truly promotes Kanako's role as the sturdy nuker in the 4th spot but also Suwako's role as the hit-and-run nuker where position doesn't really matter anyway.
See my problem is that with Suwako's skill working that way, it affects tanks that are supposed to always stay in the fight (Byakuren, Mokou, and technically Kasen if you wanted to build her tanky and just use her spells for the effects).
I always thought of Kanako as a third slot attacker. Because of her bulk, she doesn't need to be switched out as often.
My general theory behind LoT mechanics is that:
4th slot sees the most switches because 4th slot is for glass cannons,
3rd slot sees less switches because its for bulkier attackers / bulky supports,
2nd slot for secondary tank / dedicated bulky defensive buffers and thus sees even less switches, and
1st slot should not be switched at all with your dedicated tank being there.
Of course certain battles and certain situations might call for some temporary adjustments but overall, that's how I always imagined the front line party.
In my team that I posted, my front line for bosses would typically be Komachi, Byakuren, Aya, Eiki / Kaguya. Though obviously I never start the battle out that way because screw Flowing Hellfire for those who've played LoT1.
So I've finally gotten around to playing this game. Up to 12F, and I'm really enjoying it so far (which I suppose isn't really a surprise, since the first one is one of my favourite games of all time and this is basically the same except with more convenient features :V).
But anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any tips for beating the 12F boss that isn't the mirror at the challenge level? I can sort of survive it for a bit by using a party full of physically defensive people and keeping everyone buffed, but said people don't do very much damage (especially since I pretty much need them fully built for DEF to survive) and eventually my tanks go down to it either spamming the piercing multitarget move or following the HP-to-1 attack with something that goes through my defenses. And the thing's insane speed makes the usual switch-in switch-out style nuking almost impossible to pull off.
I suppose I could just go grinding for a bit, but since I've managed to beat every other boss so far at the challenge level, it feels like sort of a shame to break the streak now.
Let me go try to fight the boss now with my current team and see if I have any new insight I didn't already put in the wiki. My random team consisting of characters I didn't use in my first two playthroughs seems to be able to take all the bosses so far at challenge level but I haven't fought the two on the 12F yet.
Edit: Well I just got reminded that the game rounds down when you have 1 HP and are hit with Half Moon Slash which cuts your HP in half. This is going to be fun...
Edit2: Mirror was easy enough with a couple of Monks. Still have no idea how I'm going to beat the Magatama with my current party though.
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I've noticed that in LoT2 it's become quite viable to play a more stay-in style. In LoT1 I ran the (what I perceive as) standard hit&run tactic with 2 tanks in the front for switching
but in 2 I actually use only 1 tank who sits in the first slot and switches/does her stuff and have a bulky attacker in the second slot.
I usually have Kanako in my party who occupies the fourth slot and the third one is for switching.
Hit&run is still perfectly usable, as seen with Flan and Suwako but not necessarily the only thing you can do.
This of course depends heavily on your party-setup and given that especially Yuuka (who works perfectly fine in the second slot) and to a lesser degree Sanae & Kanako are staple party members for me that's what I go for.
Which is kinda ironic, given that switching doesn't cost anything anymore. :V
I'm just not a fan of the glass-cannon characters and happen to like the bulkier ones.
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Eh, I had characters "staying in" alot of the time in lot1, often changing them to shorten times between a full atb attack and/or recover mana moreso than survive better. It's just most people MAKE their characters glass cannons in lot1 by spending their points in attack stats instead of defense, which certainly makes trash easier but I find it's actually easier to do bosses at under levels by being defensive specced on most characters.
I almost find it nearly the opposite in 2 though because 2 almost requires you to use glass cannon type characters or else you'll hit for 0 on many of the later high def bosses.
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I found that boss to be the hardest boss in the main game, though mostly because your party options are rather limited at that stage in game. If you struggle in keeping up with the boss you could check if your voile levels are up/close to the challenge level, atleast on your key characters. Since the boss is weak against dark, you could see which of your dark attackers can hit the hardest. Kasen is pretty good in that fight for example. If you still can't beat it, you could post the party you're using for some improvement suggestions.
Well, skill points was at least partially the problem, since I kind of have a bad tendency to hoard them for later; after spending 50,000 mostly on defenses I finally managed to take it down. Still took like twenty more attempts, though, even with a party full of defensive characters. If the boss decides to put someone's HP to 1 and follow it up with the multitarget piercing or HP halving attack before you get to move, there's not a whole lot you can do other than hope the target was someone you didn't need very much.
Also I think the wiki might be wrong on how the boss's speed increase works? Rather than a flat increase when it uses the HP version of Djinn Storm, it seems like it keeps increasing over the span of the entire battle.
Gotta love how you can reassign levelup bonuses, though. HP-build Minoriko actually did a fairly decent job at surviving (except for the winning run, where she kind of got hit by two consecutive single-target attacks in the third slot early on).
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So out of curiosity, how is one supposed to defeat the post game bosses without going over the challenge level? And without Diva Aya. Cause so far they seem way too hard, or I'm just not doing something properly. Could be my party choices.
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I think I kind of broke 12F Tenshi. :V After all of my spending on defense for the Magatama, Meiling could sit in the first slot tanking swords all day with the help of heals and buffs from Minoriko, while Nitori could sit in the fourth slot and fire away all day with her not-Linear Gun.
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So out of curiosity, how is one supposed to defeat the post game bosses without going over the challenge level?
It seems pretty required to make use of the tools you're given to debuff basically every boss heavily for the whole fight (Reisen and/or Sheer Force and/or Hina, etc), hit weaknesses with powerful attacks, use defense-ignoring passives if needed, Byakuren god buffer, the whole shebang. I beat the first half of the Shadow bosses fairly, but then I said "you know this really isn't worth the effort and these bosses are getting crazy for my party" and started powerlevelling. I didn't have a setup that let me really utilize debuffs on resistant bosses.
I remember Second Sun having lots of selfbuffs though. And Maribel's passive didn't seem quite as overwhelmingly helpful as I'd hoped it would be. Maybe if I actually had just -let- it pile on the buffs though...
Videos of someone beating the deformed bosses, Second Sun, Guardian of the Crystals, and Shadow Magatama/Mirror at challenge level -without- abusing any game mechanics or cheapshotting with crazy-powered Flan or something would be neat. (Desire Eating Demon and The Great C aren't all that bad imo)
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I managed to beat the Second Sun without Flandre at challenge level (average level = challenge level) using 10 characters. I basically chose only characters that could survive its attacks which made the party swapping harmless, made sure I had loads of debuffers and healers and just smacked it down. I couldn't beat the Guardian without Flandre though, but still did at challenge level and without any crazy overbuffing (max lvl 140 in voile).
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using 10 characters
This counts as abuse of game mechanics for the purpose I had meant, since it lets you put everyone else at about 30 levels higher, which is a -LOT-. I mean, that being said, I totally did the same thing myself, but I was talking about beating the bosses actually using the challenge level as a guideline, not skirting around it with loopholes :V
And I assume it's what Axel Ryman meant.
tl;dr it's only to be expected that it's not too hard to handle the boss's attacks when your levels are 30 higher than intended.
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My first two slots are usually the tanky slots. Komachi is my dedicated tank herbalist debuffer who rarely ever switches, and 2nd slot is Meiling, my healer bulky attacker main switcher. 3rd and 4th slots tend to be pretty various. 3rd slot is usually the support buffer -tank healer- (Eirin, Minoriko), but sometimes it's the glass cannon, and sometimes the support buffer healer is in the 4th slot.
My usual first 4 are Komachi, Meiling, Reimu, and Aya. Afterwards I switch out Aya or Reimu and begin my setup.
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i found "C" the hardest one for me, because my usual tactic was buffing attackers and brute force trought the fight, i am not the kind of person that relies on debuffs/ailments for bosses, but had to use several toxicologists for that one,another thing i noticed was NOBODY could damage the bosses except buffed remilia/flandre, you know something is wrong when even kasen/ marisa deal almost nothing or 0
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beating the bosses actually using the challenge level as a guideline, not skirting around it with loopholes :V
I suppose you could boost your voile levels to the Hard mode limits to stand a better chance at surviving at challenge level, but getting enough money to do that takes some time. My guess is that the developers balanced the post game battles with the Hard mode rules in mind, since with 100 voile levels on challenge level against the Guardian of the crystals I couldn't keep up with the damage no matter what I tried. If the enemies would stick to the harmless moves it'd be alright, but in a long fight like that there will eventually come that one nasty nuke that finishes you off. Then there's boosting the expensive resistances, which don't really have a limit other than your wallet...
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lets see if they introduce lilith enemies in the post (easy to kill and money bags)
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Im still at floor 16 on my playthru so itll be a week or so before i start post game i think. But looking forward to attempting dem post game bosses at challenge level.
Only problem is that flan IS in my group because im testing the sdm skill's use (so far both patchy and remi seem far far more viable with it than they did in my first game). I have no intention of spoiling her by spending more skillpoints on her, or giving her all my bet gear (though she will likely be my prime choice for items with stats like scourge and/or genocide cannon).
Are these post game bosses like the final boss where everything that doesnt ignore defense or is super op like a stacked nitori hits for 0?
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Im still at floor 16 on my playthru so itll be a week or so before i start post game i think. But looking forward to attempting dem post game bosses at challenge level.
Only problem is that flan IS in my group because im testing the sdm skill's use (so far both patchy and remi seem far far more viable with it than they did in my first game). I have no intention of spoiling her by spending more skillpoints on her, or giving her all my bet gear (though she will likely be my prime choice for items with stats like scourge and/or genocide cannon).
Are these post game bosses like the final boss where everything that doesnt ignore defense or is super op like a stacked nitori hits for 0?
Shadow Mirror, Shadow Blue Giant Oni
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-Some- of the bosses are, and since I didn't have great def debuff capability I don't know how many of the bosses that pretty much fixes the issue for; but you pretty much do NEED either ignoring attacks or def/mnd debuffs worth using on resistant bosses for whatever reason. Kogasa (esp. with a tank build and Hexer), Hina, and Reisen are pretty good candidates... but Marisa/Utsuho Hexers could work if you were already using one of them anyway.
Or Eientei team with their mnd ignore passives. Or Shiki. There's options! Not sure quite how effective Meiling's Mountain Breaker works out. The monk skill doesn't quite cut it, partially due to several of the bosses in question having very high NTR resist.
Even Nitori/Flan have trouble scratching some, when overlevelled, so just sheer power doesn't work.
Just having Flan in your party isn't an issue (my lavaeteinn wasn't -ridiculous-) but if you do stuff like super pump her ATK and then use double blazing passive and/or full SDM team bonus then uh she's apparently a completely gamebreaking thing.
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sdm buff is good but I can't imagine it's game breaking good even on flan unless your flan's skill level in atk is like 2X higher than anyone else's highest skilled up stat in addition to sdm or whatever, but I'm not at that point yet so who knows.
edit: anyone know if hina's spinning around more than usual applies a 30% buff to her stats? like if she has -50% everything which is good for her if you have curse reversal, will she actually gimp herself by turning em all into -20%?
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That skill is detrimental to her keeping her debuffs up. It will work against them.
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That skill is detrimental to her keeping her debuffs up. It will work against them.
blah, thanks.
At floor 19 now yay.. 16-18 were alot less work than I assumed... I mean I did them before but that was some time ago and I forgot how long they took, but yeah, they're pretty quick (though the trash do not seem to be any more rewarding than 12-15f).
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I recall the trek between 19 and hitting the 20 checkpoint(s) being the worst, but it was most likely my fault because I had over 1m yen that could have been exploding my party's stats- the issue was mostly how likely I was to get destroyed after doing all the puzzle to reach 20f. Also I eventually realized at some point I respec'd Nitori and forgot to give her maintennance, which kinda ruined her :V
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Yuka down. I had realized that she'd probably use Master Spark when she was getting low on health, so I figured I'd just let Mokou take it and resurrect; however, I most definitely wasn't prepared for her to do nothing but alternating between Concentration and Master Spark. Mokou wasn't nearly fast enough to switch in someone else to attack in between Sparks, so it came down to her finishing off Yuka with her last Fujiyama Volcano before she ran out of TP for resurrecting. Extremely close victories are always the best kind :V
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yeah in my first playthru I tried reaching 1m moneyses (before it was partially changed to yen =P) before the final boss or so since like.... floor 15 or something? I forget, quite far in advance in any case. I think I had like 500k by the final floor and was like "I'm only half way there? and the stuff is super hard now cuz my skill levels are gimp? eff this", and spend them all...This time I didn't make that mistake again...I've been saving money since floor 1! (kidding), nah haven't been saving at all. That being said I just did the 19-20 find the save point thing grind and first... I don't know how someone can say lot1's 10-12f lock thing is game-breakingly bad and that lot 2's 19-20f is acceptable.. 2nd, even though it was worse than 10-12f imo, It still wasn't half as bad as lot2 13-15f IMO..
What's worse is I'm now 5 levels under the challenge level for the first sigil boss (and I explored absolutely everything except behind stones involving said sigil, and that 88 achievement stone).. 13-15f? I was TEN effing levels behind the challenge levels when I bumped into yuyu and fully explored everything possible (so 12 behind azure giant). I think that's actually more grinding required than maribel in lot1, which is the only part in all of lot1 that I admit requires grinding other than the 30f, which I don't even consider bad since the 20f grinding in lot1 is like 3x faster than lot2, and the loot they drop is far more drooly too
this whole post sounds lot1>lot2, which isn't my intention... I admit I actually think lot1 was a far more refined game than lot2 (lot2 has better dev-made music than lot1's special disc, though I prefer the public music in base lot1 more still, but lot2 looks way better, customization is more fun, respeccing is a must, achievements that matter are always super cool.... lot2 improves on 1 in many many ways...but I think 1 was still better at the very core in terms of boss balance, enemy balance, just...how much fun you had progressing thru new stuff. Skillpoints also seemed alot more fun to use... in lot2 they seem to matter a bit less, and increase in cost a LOT more... basically making it so you feel forced to spend them pretty darn evenly across all characters (minus atk for patchy, mag for marisa, def/mnd for flan, etc)... I felt like lot1 made skillpoint spending a LOT more flexable, while remaining viable.
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ok so it still sounds like I prefer lot1, and I do, but not because I think it's objectively BETTER per say, in fact I think lot2 is in a measureable sense. I just think lot1 was better at the aspects that made dungeon crawler rpg fans attracted to such a game. Lot2 is still good in that regard, but it focuses more on the aspects that are kinda universal to every genre. Lot2 also adds some things that I was really drooling at, but their implimentation kinda left me disappointed.
Hard mode for example is a sham, it doesn't do anything to the game's difficulty except prevent you from doing things that you can prevent yourself from doing (which I DO do) anyway, so...yay? Now I can BRAG that I set it to hard knowing it didn't do anything at all? uhh...sigh. Accuracy/evasion mechanics did NOT have the mechanics I said would make it good, nor did they have mechanics that convinced me were as good or better than my suggestions (I know that sounds super stuck-up but...well...just read all my lot posts I made over the last 2 years!.... ok I know nobody will, I wouldn't myself even...Basically I admit there may be other mechanics which would be good but I just don't know what and the ones in this game didn't really give me the "YES" sense I was hoping that lot2 COULD...THAT doesn't sound stuckup I hope). Some things were rebalanced too... like most underpowered characters were buffed, and most OP characters were nerfed...minus nitori...not sure why one of if not the most op damage dealer got buffed to potentially be op in EVERY aspect, bwuh? But yeah, China isn't as definitively the only true ultimate 1st slot tank... remiu isn't as derp to not take too, rumia is far more than a demarcation bot, aya is now more than a hits for 0 unless weak to wind otherwise speedbuff bot, though I think she got buffed too much into op.
Basically I just think lot 2 had many things going for it that made it look better...But somehow the fine tune balancing and number crunching in lot1 felt alot more important than I anticipated. It's hard to say what makes it better in an objective sense, I know lot2 is in that regard, but... =/. This isn't blind fanboism either. I was really drooling at lot2, and I DO love lot2...Hopefully the expansion in lot2 is better, cuz I admit that the expansion in 1 was kinda weak in the sense that it had half the floors, the 30f was stupid in terms of grind requirements, all the floor music was re-used, character per floor ratio nosedived (though not surprising since the base game had a good amount total), story per floor also was noticeably less. Not complaining, it was worth every penny of the import costs, but I think lot2's expansion just may even the gap, especially knowing it has a core-gameplay change announced like endless mode.. eeek.
omg if there was an lot endless length dungeon roguelike I'd...I'd...eeeek... nerdgasm.. accck.
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aya is now more than a hits for 0 unless weak to wind otherwise speedbuff bot
Actually, in postgame LoT1 Aya is actually Chen 2.0 so long as you've got an atk buffer to keep her going. I used her in my last run of the game (special disk) and it was glorious; even pretty potent against the several plus-disk bosses RESISTANT to wind. I'd rank her as one of the highest potential endgame damage dealers.
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Actually yeah she didn't hit for 0 for me, and that self buff nuke was pretty good...I never actually got to make her do THAT much damage though, and I played her to the very end too. Still though, I just find that her general value got buffed a lot in 2.
edit: Kinda at final boss now minus needing to grind about 8 levels to meet challenge level thingie (and I DONT want to fight that boss below that since the fight takes super long and can be super cheese as it is. Last time the stupid boss kept using world shaking military rule like every other turn, such a pain), I still have a bit to explore on the final area though...I forget, was there a ninja costume somewhere in that area? I don't have one at all yet and I noticed the nyphs drop one. I seem to recall actually getting one in my last game, did I actually manage to snag that 2.4% drop? Or is there one in a chest nearby? Also, I've determined gran centurio is the flan-oriented item =P. Even the mp gain is super needed since making her a gambler starves her of mp so bad. Kinda miss not having gambler at all for trash since her nukes are already pretty overkill on trash without it, minus forbidden fruit which is great against enemies that don't have good defenses and/or resistance....seems there's always at least one enemy that isn't bothered by it though in every pull.
Also Forbidden fruit looks like it should be Utsuho's nuke =P...Even sounds like one, and looks like that 2nd to last spellcard in SA.
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You can get the Ninja Costume only from those Nypmhs. There's none in any chests (Or I overlooked it in my runs.)
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There's none in any chests (Or I overlooked it in my runs.)
There is one actually, but it's in a post game area (can't remember where exactly).
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Actually yeah she didn't hit for 0 for me, and that self buff nuke was pretty good...I never actually got to make her do THAT much damage though, and I played her to the very end too. Still though, I just find that her general value got buffed a lot in 2.
LoT1!Aya's PWG is heavily influenced by how high her ATK buff is since it doesn't pierce defense all that well (damage drastically drops as it gets lower), and she also relies on the low delay in tandem with her SPD selfbuff (using her plain spd buff once or twice being helpful despite postgame speed proration), the value comes from how many hits she can get in during a small amount of time. Her potential admittedly depends on how much you're willing to risk leaving her out for a boss turn or two now and then (she can -kinda- take a single hit...?) or if the boss is miraculously PAR'd or SPD debuffed, since that drastically increases how many attacks she gets in for the same amount of time.
She's kinda like a maingame Chen with more complications but somewhat less paperness.
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One of these days I really should try playing through LoT1 with primarily defensive builds, it just always feels like such a waste to invest levelup bonuses in defense on some of the cannons.
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Well you obviously don't do it for flan or chen or something. But it's perfectly viable for remi, patchy, yuugi (though protecting her from magic based damage is still really hard so I don't know if it's a good idea in her case). In addition, I think it's almost a waste to NOT build certain "cannons" defensive, notably kaggy and eiki. For kaggy, her stone bowl spell is amazing good, even with no attack stats at all she can provide top-tier dps by using that spell on someone like flan, nitori, etc...in addition her other nukes ignore defenses, so losing half your attack power will only make them do half damage, where other characters would go to like 1/5 of its previous damage, or 0, or whatever. Same with eiki. Even without building her for atk, her nuke ignores defense so it still is quite potent.
Also, if you grab a neconomicon before kedamageddon or whateve its name is, slap one on a mnd-build patchy and have fun soloing the boss =P (this is actually what Id id in my first playthru, I wasn't able to manage that boss except for patchy taking 0s from everything it threw at me, even its super nuke!). Incidentally, something people don't realize is that more than twice as high in one defense low in another characters actually survive composite attacks better than a balanced character. For example a mnd kaggy will tank rinnosuke's big composite nuke and hopefully take 0 long before a relatively tanky in both stats but not focused in one character like a mag build alice or something.
edit: Just beat final boss (non-postgame) on my first try on a half-assed attempt, half-assed cuz I didn't bother changing gear around like making certain characters insta-death immune, focusing on spirit resist, etc... of course, both byakuren and hina (my only main buffer and debuffers respectively) got insta-deathed on the very first falling tree attack despite having plenty (just not 100) of death resist.. effing game...that said they and parsee were my only casualties...speaking of parsee, she went from being crappy to op to... she hasn't been useful at all since like 14f again. I don't really understand her... her small box big box nuke used to stomp gugnir by like 4X damage, now it does like 1/3? her long-lasting terror/silence never landed ONCE on the final boss either despite the boss having no resistance at all, and that attack also being rank 5... her defenses are great but geeze, she's just so usless otherwise. Even tenshi/china can do more useful stuff lately... I'm not saying she sucks but maybe I'm just really unlucky with landing terror, or I got "small box" damage at max rank like.. the last 50 attemtps in a row? I dunno.
Hina on the other hand is way more useful.. despite not having arm-twisting, her debuffs seem to always land on every boss, kinda like kogasa's mnd-reducing nuke, which I assumed did that because of her arm twisting.
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What's your Parsee's levelup-boost build at? Although I assume it's likely full ATK if you're complaining about too low damage.
Damage scaling in this game can be weird since this game has a HEFTY amount of crazy-high def/mnd bosses. Attacks that wrecked in most of the first part of the game can suddenly start to suck if they aren't particularly good at getting through defenses.
Whenever I do a second run of the game I'm definitely investing more in debuffs and defense ignoring characters; I had negligible amounts of either in my first run.
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The ONLY thing i miss fro Lot1 is the ability to change the paragraph to my liking, oh and messing with the skipping walls teleport glitch to skip yukari and some puzzles
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Yeah my parsee is built for attack, though maybe she really really relies on terror being on the enemy to do good damage, I dunno. I mean I try to apply it with her but it never lands.. I actually have more success landing a terror with kasen's dark attack, but that one doesn't really last very long. And yeah, later game bosses tend to have a huge increase in defenses, but it just feels like parsee's nukes were affected more. Maybe it just has a particularly terrible defense piercing formula kinda like killing doll made hard to notice early because of incredible potential power...But even that I kidna doubt because on bosses with near no defense like knowledge, I dont recall her nuke's power didn't double in damage or anything (back then), whereas some other characters' nukes did (and killing dolls like x50'd =P.. ok slight exageration).
Terror DID land on occasion back then though. I thought that would only be like a 20% increase or something though =/.
Part of me wonders if the attack formulas in this game in general are far more complicated.. more than just x*(atk*y - def*z). but crazy stuff like before and after mitigation affinity reductions, IF something, do something (in the formula I mean).
Parsee is one of my two characters with no subclass too because she was doing such major damage for so long I felt like she didn't need it and her nukes would be far better than anything a subclass can offter, and most of my other characters kinda had gaps that could be filled by a subclass quite well. Anyway, because hina's pain flow is just plain amazing now, I tome'd her, and just made her a hexer in the end after all. that 1/3 nerf to skill is actually not too bad when I thought about it because other characters aren't sitting around at -50% effing everything (at least not for very long at all), but hina does so she still probably makes far more use from that than anyone else ever would, that and despite her not having arm twisting, her debuffs seem to always land as though they had a 200% affliction rate instead of 100% or something. I remember on my first playthru I could NOT land ANY debuffs on the final boss except kogasa with her -mnd...But my hina didn't fail to apply at least 3 (and even that is low) a single time (while she was alive, she got insta-death'd by falling tree at one point).
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Part of me wonders if the attack formulas in this game in general are far more complicated.. more than just x*(atk*y - def*z). but crazy stuff like before and after mitigation affinity reductions, IF something, do something (in the formula I mean).
They must be more complicated than in 1, simply because you have additional factors like skill level. Then there's others like large box small box that outright state they do weird damage.
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Status effects do have some kind of move-specific accuracy now, which is weird to adjust to because DTH is the only LoT1 ailment that had variable accuracy.
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They must be more complicated than in 1, simply because you have additional factors like skill level. Then there's others like large box small box that outright state they do weird damage.
Yeah, I mean that it's even more complicated than is initially obvious. really wish we could see how much of an improvement you get for increasing the ranks on spells though. Seems really silly that the player can see stuff like 10% * skill level this, 50% * skill level that, + 1 per skill level this, but skillpoints invested in spellcards tell you squat except for rare examples like byakuren's buff stating skillups will make it not copy debuffs (but even then it doesn't say if 1 extra skillup will accomplish this, or if you need to spend 4 more).
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Yeah, I mean that it's even more complicated than is initially obvious. really wish we could see how much of an improvement you get for increasing the ranks on spells though. Seems really silly that the player can see stuff like 10% * skill level this, 50% * skill level that, + 1 per skill level this, but skillpoints invested in spellcards tell you squat except for rare examples like byakuren's buff stating skillups will make it not copy debuffs (but even then it doesn't say if 1 extra skillup will accomplish this, or if you need to spend 4 more).
Just one level does it. Same with Reimu's yin-yang, a single extra level gives it PAR.
The non-damage ones are "obvious", at least. Wiki includes the numbers on how much leveling up a buff spell improves it for some.
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Oh yeah, I forgot about Reimu. Even though you can actually use your support characters offensively now with a quick respec into mag levelup bonuses, I forgot about her having attacks, because I dropped her from my party after awhile :V
I'd say you no longer have those cornerstone characters who undeniably greatly improve a party, but instead there's OP-tori (or 'still', depending on PoV) and then in lategame you've got god-buffer Byakuren... and from multiple sources it sounds like Hina's debuff accuracy is high enough to pretty much land her on the list, even without considering stuff like Pain Flow nuking or regen-tanking, as being able to easily lock down even heavily resistant bosses with all debuffs is a game changer.
And then Aya is probably worthy of being in there for feeding turns and passively buffing SPD, but I haven't personally used her.
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Aya is a very good support. During boss fights invest all of your bonus points into speed and just speed along, buffing speed, and depending on your subclass (magician, healer, loldiva) you can do a lot useful things very fast. Magician and Healer Aya are both very good subclasses for Aya and Diva... well you know diva. You don't even need max conchela dance to be able to do a good job and making sure your teammates get buffed and the boss barely moves. (In fact, I would recommend keeping it on level 1 [or is it 2? It depletes everyone's gauge by 2500] so that you at least have to challenge yourself and think ahead, especially when dealing with those really fast bosses).
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I forgot what the suggested order for postgame was...was it enhanced bosses, then boss rush, then maribel/renko, then new floors with bosses like the great 'c', then final boss 2.0?
edit: Final boss beatered, and I can get past the rocks asking for the final boss beaing beat, but I see no enhanced bosses, bwuh?
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The normal Boss rush unlocks the enhanced bosses.
It should generally be no problem to explore the extra areas but I suppose it's best to just do some of everything. The later enhanced bosses are certainly more difficult than the first ones.
You should wait with the Mari/Renko bosses a bit, especially the first one can be troublesome.
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Yeah, just do everything as it feels comfy; although the order you mentioned is basically right, you might explore a good chunk of the extra floors before finishing all the bosses. They are VERY large (read:inevitable exp bags), and gives you some good stuff from chests, so it helps with the shadow/marirenko bosses.
There's going to be a lot of grinding on 20f regardless, though. There's never any better place to do it, iirc.
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Za, so I gotta ask, who have you guys used that turned out better than you initially thought?
So far for me its has been...
Rumia - She is kind of like an awesome hybrid between marisa and reimu. Her attacks are strong, can pierce defenses, and if things are looking dire she has a random frontline heal. Her increased damage against humans made the touhou bosses really easier. Although, i think that everyone has found rumia to be amazing, so i shall avoid going too in depth.
Kanako - I already talked about her, so it would be redundant to mention her again.
Sakuya - So sakuya has two different purposes, without subclasses of course. In random battles she is a mob- clearer due to her piercing attack, and various target all spellcards. In boss battles, her lunar clock allows her to buff up speed, and with lucky extra attacks can cause her to buff up everyone to 100% speed on one cast. However, since that is kind of unlikely, I shall just say that a fully leveled lunar clock and one extra attack will allow her to buff up the party to satisfactory levels. She is bulky, and while she does have the tendency to drop off in usefulness as a buffer in the post game, there is nothing stopping someone from giving her the warrior subclass, flamesword spellcard, and crossing their fingers for some lucky hits on bosses.
Remillia - When I first heard about remillia, people kept saying that she was kind of like a watered-down version of kasen. She only has a buff, which hurts her, and a physical move as her two spellcards. However, I found what really sets her apart from Kasen is her last fortress ability and majesty. I have alternated between giving her the monk subclass and warrior, and to be honest I dont know which one is actually better for her. But to go back on topic, last fortress causes her to act as a way to salvage a losing boss fight, or a hilariously cheap random encounter. Majesty is awesome when combined with the warrior/monk passives. As it ensures that she is able to stay at 100% attack when she goes on the offense. She is surprisingly really fast, and can be used as a switcher with no issue. And her mental concentration makes it so that she can use her relatively low cost spell cards with no issue. To be honest, I think that the only reason that she is overshadowed by kasen is that people get kasen first, so they find no reason to make the switch over to everone's favorite vampire. Last, but not least, is that she is really, really bulky. That combined with her attack power makes her awesome.
._.
As always, this has been my long rambling post that no one asked for, but everyone received anyway.
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Just an fwi, Remilia isn't surprisingly fast. The speed of a vampire is comparable of that to a Tengu, so she should be really fast.
Besides majesty and last fortress, one thing I would say that seperates is that Remilia does really well against physical weak bosses. Imo, if Remilia maybe had Sheer Force, she would just be an alternative Kasen.
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Rumia for me... moonlight ray was always powerful in lot1 but her bad stats made it so it never really seemed all that great most of the time..however in lot2 it seems even MORE powerful, AND she can bypass some defenses with her passive skill, ensuring moonlight ray is ALWAYS either decently powerful, or stupid effing op... oh, and her group heal is bigger and better and faster than reimu's was in lot1, oh and it cures debuffs too, geeze...Might be my imagination but she seems a bit less squishy too. I mean I'm not saying she has better defenses than 1 but she just doesn't seem to get randomly 1shot as often if you leave her out.
I WOULD say Aya but I actually expected her to be pretty effing amazing as soon as I saw she had an atb-filling spell... fast character + atb filling spell = more than double anyone's dps. Oh yeah, and the fact evasion works now doesn't hurt either.
nitori... now before you ask how could I not think she'd be op? Well she was pretty op in lot1 already, so I figured she'd get nerfed a bit at least... instead she got buffed?! what?! Yeah, I didn't expect THAT.
hina: Wasn't expecting her debuff move to work so frequently on enemies that resist everyone else's debuffs (except kogasa's) all the time.
As for Remilia, I still think she's kinda watered down kasen, I mean yeah the sdm buff seems to matter, and as for last fortress... I don't know, I haven't had any boss battles with more than 2 deaths yet. But I found she was much better in lot1, and nobody else really thought she was all that in lot1 but me. In lot1 spear was more powerful I found (as in enemies with extreme defenses that take 0 from attacks that were not full action bar moves like slash of eternity, koin3, megawatt, SFN, etc, would take damage from remi's spear before nearly everything else that wasn't specifically good at piercing defenses like silent selene, asteroid belt, minoruke's single target spell, etc). Her self-buff in lot1 was more significant too because there were no majesties or monk passives, no byakuren, no party-buff passives like the one for guardian...AND in lot1 it was pretty easy to make herself immune to poison and paralyze WITHOUT gimping her stats (iirc one item seemed almost made just for that, heart of badges or something? I forget the name)...Last, spear did non-elemental damage, now enemies have physical resistance, which makes her usefulness even more situational (though the odd boss that is weak to physical is obviously going to hurt)...Also, could be my imagination, but I'm pretty sure she's slower in lot2 as well. But that might just be because high speed items in lot2 are far more common like ninja mask, meteor drive, lillium's panties, etc...And none really seem to be good fits on her so much as other characters). I mean she's still fast, but she's always hit 1000 at the start of the fight while other medium-speed characters like reimu were still not even at 9000, maybe even 8000. She was FAST.
I still haven't tried many characters like kanako though.
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I don't know, I rather like my current team and Remilia has never left it.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69830990/Stuffs/lot1team.PNG)
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I got the one on floor 19 east (or was it 20 east? wahtever), but wasn't there another stone that required 88 achievements to unlock? I thought it was in the lava zones but I can't seem to find it qq.
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I think it's 20 West that has that rock.
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Thanks but i mean i thought there was one earlier than 19/20f (its east btw, the west side was 240,000 money to unlock).
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I think the item behind the 88 achievements rock is a megasphere, pretty useful on mages/mokou, Unless you really wanna farm Cyber Elf-Grandies
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Ok, so I've encountered a couple problematic occurrences while playing this game
-The game crashes when I enter 21F
-None of the enhanced bosses are anywhere to be found
-Extra areas of floor 13 and 11 are nonexistent and I can't move when go there
-And boss rush doesn't exist
In short, there's no aftergame.
I've beaten the final boss twice and looked around in these threads to try and find a solution - I haven't found anything that helped at all
Anyone know how to fix this? (I'm playing on version 1.203 with the English patch)
Any help would be greatly appreciated...
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Ok, so I've encountered a couple problematic occurrences while playing this game
-The game crashes when I enter 21F
-None of the enhanced bosses are anywhere to be found
-Extra areas of floor 13 and 11 are nonexistent and I can't move when go there
-And boss rush doesn't exist
In short, there's no aftergame.
I've beaten the final boss twice and looked around in these threads to try and find a solution - I haven't found anything that helped at all
Anyone know how to fix this? (I'm playing on version 1.203 with the English patch)
Any help would be greatly appreciated...
I'd recommend you install all the game files again, and make sure you apply the english patch last. So 1) game files 2) 1.203 patch 3) english patch. Just make sure you backup your save files.
First thing you can (or should) do is the boss rush which is on the east side of 20F depths.
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I'd recommend you install all the game files again, and make sure you apply the english patch last. So 1) game files 2) 1.203 patch 3) english patch. Just make sure you backup your save files.
First thing you can (or should) do is the boss rush which is on the east side of 20F depths.
Hooray, it worked! Or at least I think so? I can get to the Extra areas and 21F now, but I don't see any enhanced bosses (According to the Wiki, they're supposed to be where each of the original bosses were, or am I getting my details wrong?)
Also holy crap 11F just got a lot harder!
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Ok, so I've encountered a couple problematic occurrences while playing this game
-The game crashes when I enter 21F
-None of the enhanced bosses are anywhere to be found
-Extra areas of floor 13 and 11 are nonexistent and I can't move when go there
-And boss rush doesn't exist
In short, there's no aftergame.
I've beaten the final boss twice and looked around in these threads to try and find a solution - I haven't found anything that helped at all
Anyone know how to fix this? (I'm playing on version 1.203 with the English patch)
Any help would be greatly appreciated...
Sounds like you're playing the English 1.203 patch on a 1.51 or lower patched game. At least those were the results I got when I tried messing around with post game content on 1.50. I'd say get the 1.203 patch itself, not the English one, from the link in the first post, install it, then see if you can get into those areas, then try with the English one.
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but I don't see any enhanced bosses
They appear once you beat the boss rush.
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They appear once you beat the boss rush.
...How are you supposed to beat those under the challenge level? Byakuren dies before she gets a move even (She has like 560 Speed or something currently)
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There's several ways to go around beating the enhanced bosses while staying at challenge level:
1) Nuke them out of orbit with buffed Flandre
2) Grind levels and have some extra level up points, then drop down to challenge level
3) Have less than 12 characters in your party, this allows for higher level party members while staying below the challenge level
4) Get better gear at the extra maps
5) Optimise party setup to take advantage of each boss's weaknesses and attack elements. They are more or less the same as their normal versions.
1 and 3 are quite cheesy "easy way out" methods, which I wouldn't recommend over-abusing, but beside those it's all a matter of preparation really.
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The postgame bosses are actually pretty difficult at challenge level without specifically optimized setups, which you aren't likely gonna want to make for all of these bosses in a row.
I think they also expect you to be heavily utilizing debuffs.
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How do you have less than twelve members? I'm having a brain fart.
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You can kick people out of your Party in the Human Village by pressing A in the character select menu.
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How do I keep LoT2 running, because my game keeps crashing because 'Debug Assertion Failed!'.
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So! I decided to mess around while fighting an Angel Conception - Holy in the first game just to see what it was like when alone since the wiki warned about it but I had never let it get more than one turn. Do not do this.
It will eventually use God Press, and you will die.
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So! I decided to mess around while fighting an Angel Conception - Holy in the first game just to see what it was like when alone since the wiki warned about it but I had never let it get more than one turn. Do not do this.
It will eventually use God Press, and you will die.
Knowledge in LoT2 does the same thing: first turn will focus, second wipe your party with ether flare
Also why does magical character got more advantage in damage dealing? (In general) put it this way
Physical attacks can be resisted with:PHY Attribute,Physical Defense, and the element of the move in question
Magical Attacks can be resisted with:The Attribute of the magical attack and Magical defense
So magical got 1 thing less to worry about when dealing damage
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Physical attacks can be resisted with:PHY Attribute,Physical Defense, and the element of the move in question
Magical Attacks can be resisted with:The Attribute of the magical attack and Magical defense
"Physical" attacks only factor in physical defense if they're PHYS-elemental. An atk-based FIR-elemental attack will only take the target's FIR res into account.
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Knowledge in LoT2 does the same thing: first turn will focus, second wipe your party with ether flare
Also why does magical character got more advantage in damage dealing? (In general) put it this way
Physical attacks can be resisted with:PHY Attribute,Physical Defense, and the element of the move in question
Magical Attacks can be resisted with:The Attribute of the magical attack and Magical defense
So magical got 1 thing less to worry about when dealing damage
Oh how I love Ether Flare. I remember various things starting on 7F in Laby 1 using it and they continue to appear. It's always fun seeing ridiculously high Mystic damage popping up all over the place.
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So! I decided to mess around while fighting an Angel Conception - Holy in the first game just to see what it was like when alone since the wiki warned about it but I had never let it get more than one turn. Do not do this.
It will eventually use God Press, and you will die.
Iirc god press does loads of damage but is greatly reduced by mnd. If you have a mnd patchy or kaggy or something they may take 0 if you are a relatively appropriate level.
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Iirc god press does loads of damage but is greatly reduced by mnd. If you have a mnd patchy or kaggy or something they may take 0 if you are a relatively appropriate level.
Huh. I do not have either of them set up for MND, though.
Anyway, getting the crap kicked outta me by Kourin sucks. Is Reimu Lv. 86 too low, assuming the following party?
Youmu(ATK)
Reimu(MAG, then later MND)
Tenshi(DEF/MND hybrid)
(a varable slot, not sure who I want here)Yukari(SP, then MND)
Komachi(ATK)
Ran(SP, then MAG)
Suwako(ATK)
Chen(ATK)
Kaguya(MAG)
Marisa(MAG)
Nitori(ATK)
Flandre(ATK)
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Well it's not too low technically. But your party has an awful lot of people who aren't really beefy, or with beefy builds.. I mean even your reimu, and ran (I know ran can be built offensively with success but given tenshi is your only def specced It's kinda "even" imo) aren't purely defensive specced. Plus if that's your first game you no doubt have less efficient useage of skillpoints and stuff due to spending em on characters you have dumped and such, which accounts for something (not sure much but something).
That said I know he is doable at that level but I'm pretty sure most people kinda don't bother doing him below 90 in general, and many first timers even go to 100+.
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Hm. I might try going for 90 or 92 or so then. I don't want him to be EASY or anything.
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I forgot to mention that is with china as a tank, with tenshi, ratetsu fist is going to be beyond cheap.
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I forgot to mention that is with china as a tank, with tenshi, ratetsu fist is going to be beyond cheap.
Or in other words it will one-shot them.
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Oh I know that. MOST of my team is OHKOd by Rasetsu Fist because it deals like 5.5-7k about and totally bypasses DEF. Komachi, Youmu, uh...I think those two are the only ones who will survive one ever.
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@ Jq1790 Uh, what does SP stand for? I'm gonna assume it's speed.
And for Rasetsu Fist, just build up your physical resistance. Since it bypasses defense, that's all you really have to do. In the case of Meiling, you really should be putting money into her physical affinity anyway, sub 100 is not cool for a bulky attacker/tank.
Tenshi's HP is probably too low to handle a Rasetsu Fist. Even with a lot of physical resistance.
Also, for the fight with the Blue Oni, I would really recommend debuffing. That way Rasetsu Fist is like a paper cut.
I'm remembering the first time I fought that boss, he wasn't that hard. I just had to go Hina modo and knock off his buffs with Tenshi. Give Komachi straight physical resistance, etc.
And remember that your bonus points can be changed around. You may have to take Youmu's atk bonus points and put it in her HP just for this boss fight. (That's something I always forget)
And just to clarify, this is LoT2 right? (Barely knows anything about LoT1)
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The things Jq asked about are for Laby1.
Meaning no Phys-Element to boost and SP is what MP in 2 is but it works differently in its quantities.
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So I took a year break on this game and now am getting to the post game content and I can't seem to get the shadow bosses to appear is there something I have to do first, I have beaten the great C and the Slicing demon.
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You need to do the Boss Rush on 20F first.
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So I decided to mess around a bit while grinding some more levels for the fight with Rinnosuke, and paid a visit to 6F's extra area. The area with a Bloodstained Seal.
With some affinity patching amd Def focusing, I...may actually be able to take on the Beast of Centaurea. I only tried once, but I managed in that one time to scrape my way to Breakaway Form. I think I can do this, if I just time my switching right.
EDIT: Oh gods, maybe not. Did -not- expect Needle Parade. Also Wave Blaaaaaaast will instagib anyone except maybe if I have Meiling still by then(who is geared to the teeth with WND gear) or Komachi (who would need to be with WND-affinity gear too). I'll have to rethink this. THOUGH, Master Spark unbuffed still did over 70k damage with BoC's MND up by 48%, so it might still be possible. I didn't track its HP so I didn't have enough people out to blow it out of the sky. Maybe I can kill it if I have enough people out with nukes waiting for it once its first form dies and then I just have to burn it down before its ATB fills again after 'Hahaha! What's wrong?'.
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You can cheese that boss by keeping it par locked before it transforms and skip the transform part completely.... Ive done it but it took me a lon time cuz if you skip that part you have to deal iwth a gajillion extra hp you otherwise dont need go deal with.
That said there isnt much point in doing it because im pretty sure the boss drops nothing nor guards anything (aside from the portion of needing to kill all seal bosses).
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You can cheese that boss by keeping it par locked before it transforms and skip the transform part completely.... Ive done it but it took me a lon time cuz if you skip that part you have to deal iwth a gajillion extra hp you otherwise dont need go deal with.
That said there isnt much point in doing it because im pretty sure the boss drops nothing nor guards anything (aside from the portion of needing to kill all seal bosses).
Oh, I didn't even know you could kill it without it transforming. What's its actual HP, anyway, assuming you try to do so? I just wanna know so I can plug it into Cheat Engine for tracking when it'll switch forms so I can make sure to be prepared.
As for the point? Two points, actually.
1: It's worth 300k experience, enough to level everybody several times at my level.
2: to say I beat it ~20 levels below recommended level.
Getting it hit with PAR is gonna probably help a LOT if I pull it off, from what my experience in my failures so far has taught me. Especially if the PAR comes from Moriya's Iron Ring since it's a really good one.
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According to the database, 1,666,666. It changes form after 666,666 damage done.
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oh wait. I think I goofed... theoretically you can do that on v1 too but I'm pretty sure it's not actually viable, I was thinking v2... it has the same chances of having par land on it, but it's breakaway form is significantly more deadly than v1's, and more importantly, your character's speed ratings are significantly higher, meaning paralize lasts for more turns, that and you'll have access to renko who has the best, longest par in the game.
You can try, but chances are it'll resist like 3 pars in a row and you'll end up with a transformed boss anyway. for v2 even if it resists 3 in a row you still have time to re-apply.
Note the database says v2's hp is only 16 million...I could have sworn it was absolutely outrageous, like 160 million.
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So, I've been playing Labyrinth of Touhou Special Disk (2.04, I think) for about twenty hours spread over whenever I have the time, and things have been going pretty well (got Komachi and Suwako only a few hours ago) but then for some reason, when I reopened my save file all of my characters were at level 0 with 0 TP, no HP or SP. The skill points I got are all still there, as are the items and the floor progress but I can't quite do anything when all the characters do 0 damage and leave after one turn. Does anyone have any idea how to fix this?
I have not used any third - party programs or cheat engines (I tried to use cheat engine AFTER the glitch to recover all my hard work - couldn't figure out how to use it and didn't want to break the game any worse so I stopped), nor did I do anything outside of actually just playing the game and grinding to level 30 - ish.
Any help would be appreciated - I don't want those days where I stayed up past midnight just to grind a couple levels because I had no time otherwise.
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Just wondering, who would be a good candidate for the Magician subclass?
I want to use Nazrin to get more gold and exp, and her mana costs add up really quickly after a couple of casts. Also, I was just wondering in particular, since I think a Magician would be really useful to have, especially during dungeon exploration. (Forever running out of mana hurdurr Marisa Master Spark on that bird in the sky)
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Anyone who already has good MP recovery is a good magician, assuming you want to use Magic Transfer. People with 3 base mp recovery aren't bad choices... but the star here would be Minoriko with her godly 4mp recovery, Desire To Rest, Rapid Charge, etc to keep an endless flow of MP moving. Her heal/buff skills, high mnd, and passive MAG party buff are icing on the cake.
Technically some people might like magician just for the 1mp passive regen, but I'm not sure how much of a good decision that actually is.
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Oh, I see! Forgot about Minoriko having the highest natural MP regen (Not that I knew in the first place)
She'll definitely be the healer on my team then, especially since I've banned Eirin and Komachi from my team. Thanks for the answer :D
Also, I'm bored. How many tanky characters are there in LoT2? (At least China level tanky or so)
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Also, I'm bored. How many tanky characters are there in LoT2? (At least China level tanky or so)
That's a hard question to answer since a lot of characters can be built tanky and China level tanky in LoT2 is not a very high standard imo.
I can count 14 characters in my opinion that can be built just as tanky as China if not better and there are a couple others that can be better than China level tanky for MND / DEF respectively. LoT2 is more more flexible in terms of character building but obviously its going to be hard to make someone like Patchy / Flandre into a tank.
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Oh, right, realised that my question was flawed :blush:
Well, uh, who has the potential to be reeeeeally tanky? (Like, a little bit less than Tenshi or so)
EDIT: Actually, if you raise a character's HP, DEF and MND to 500 and elemental affinities to 100 by flooding the library with lots of cash, I suppose he/she could be reeeeeally tanky.
A-anyway, I mean, uh, innately! Y-yeah, that's right! Like, uh, Parsee's gigantic MND stat growth!
Then again if you put all skill points into DEF and MND and HP and give them equips that boost those stats, I suppose he/she could be reeeeeally tanky.
Forget it. This question is retarded :derp:
Well, at least Patchy can be made into a MND tank, though her DEF can't be called glass cannon; it's frailer than air, a vacuum probably has more DEF than she does. Still, poor Flandre is really glass, but not as bad as Patchy's absolutely horrendous DEF >.>
What about: Which characters have good growths in HP, MND and DEF? Like, reeeaaally good. Not at the level of Tenshi, but enough to be able to tank lots of hits.
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Well, at least Patchy can be made into a MND tank, though her DEF can't be called glass cannon; it's frailer than air, a vacuum probably has more DEF than she does. Still, poor Flandre is really glass, but not as bad as Patchy's absolutely horrendous DEF >.>
Patchy is a tissue that has been drenched in magic-repelling fluid.
What about: Which characters have good growths in HP, MND and DEF? Like, reeeaaally good. Not at the level of Tenshi, but enough to be able to tank lots of hits.
Yuuka becomes a good second slot tank when late game arrives, Wriggle, Rumia, Kourin with his High-Boosts, Okuu can become kinda like Komachi, Nitori gets to be tanky thanks to Maintenance, same goes for Renko, Momiji can take physical hits, Parsee magical,
Hina is an excellent tank, Yuugi takes physical hits quite well but is not that good a tank since then she doesn't do much else than sponge damage, Ran isn't too frail, Kanako is rather bulky on both sides, Yuyuko has a good Mind stat, Byakuren is also a decent tank.
As you can see that's like a third of the roster. Outside of Kanako all of those can safely hang around in the second slot without being built all defense (Kanako can do that as well but it screws her over skillset wise.) and if you build them as a tank they can also go first slot.
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What about: Which characters have good growths in HP, MND and DEF? Like, reeeaaally good. Not at the level of Tenshi, but enough to be able to tank lots of hits.
If I'm not completely mistaken, the base values given for each stat in character parameters means how well each of those stats grow. So rather than ask for vague "who is good enough" questions, go see the numbers yourself. :)
Looking at the base stats I found something quite interesting: Aya seems to have the highest base HP value after Komachi. That's certainly unexpected.
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That's a hard question to answer since a lot of characters can be built tanky and China level tanky in LoT2 is not a very high standard imo.
I can count 14 characters in my opinion that can be built just as tanky as China if not better and there are a couple others that can be better than China level tanky for MND / DEF respectively. LoT2 is more more flexible in terms of character building but obviously its going to be hard to make someone like Patchy / Flandre into a tank.
Meiling pls
And speaking of tankiness, Imo, the best second slot tanks are like Meiling, Yuuka, Rinnosuke, Wriggle. Meiling namely due to her passive that reduces damage for not being in the 1st slot. Parsee can actually take some physical hits as well, her HP actually isn't that bad. If you invest in her HP and give her your HP gems, she will also do well taking physical hits. Byakuren is a good tank thanks to her healing passive and overall good stats. And if you make her monk, it gets even better.
@Kaitani
I don't think that's right. I'm pretty sure Utsuho, Flandre, Remilia, and Meiling have higher HP values than Aya.
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I don't think that's right. I'm pretty sure Utsuho, Flandre, Remilia, and Meiling have higher HP values than Aya.
Oh, didn't realise I still had First Aid Kit on Aya when I was checking those values. And HP boost skill. And the fact that those things increase the base value in the character parameters without saying that they are "temporary" boosts.
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Anyone who already has good MP recovery is a good magician, assuming you want to use Magic Transfer. People with 3 base mp recovery aren't bad choices... but the star here would be Minoriko with her godly 4mp recovery, Desire To Rest, Rapid Charge, etc to keep an endless flow of MP moving. Her heal/buff skills, high mnd, and passive MAG party buff are icing on the cake.
Technically some people might like magician just for the 1mp passive regen, but I'm not sure how much of a good decision that actually is.
Oh, I see! Forgot about Minoriko having the highest natural MP regen (Not that I knew in the first place)
She'll definitely be the healer on my team then, especially since I've banned Eirin and Komachi from my team. Thanks for the answer :D
What about Mokou? Presuming that you are playing LoT2, she should also have a 4MP recovery, so...
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What about Mokou? Presuming that you are playing LoT2, she should also have a 4MP recovery, so...
I prefer Minoriko due to her much higher base MP though :P
And anyway, Minoriko can support really well, while Mokou only has that debuff on her spellcard that inflicts WND damage.
Then again, Mokou can be a tank...
Why must some characters in LoT2 be so versatile @.@
Oh, and thank you all for the suggestion on tanks :D
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Minoriko would make a very good healer and mana battery too. She moves very fast, recovers MP very fast, and can heal very hard. She is one of the best supports in game.
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Sanae is very similar to Minoriko in her role, and with her passive skills she also has 4 MP recovery. She's slightly slower than Minoriko but has more health and a better balance in defense stats. Sanae's buff increases all stats instead of just DEF/MND and her heal also removes ailments, so that gives her an edge. Although, if you have someone else taking care of buffing (Byakuren) and are not that worried about ailments, Minoriko's passives and faster healing skill could be more useful in keeping your party alive.
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Sanae appeared that way in lot1 to many people too, but in practice she was seemingly impossible to keep alive due to her slower leveling. obviously that will be almost a non-issue for lot2 since people probably even out their levels during bosses. The other point however was that mino's heal would heal nearly everyone to full even if she spent all her level bonuses on mnd instead of mag, meanwhile sanae's heal wouldn't be so significant. It's worth noting that Sanae's heal also has 30% more delay in addition to her slower speed, making the delay between heals quite noticeable.
In any case I don't think they're really similar enough to really make another redundant, and mp regen is nice for magician I suppose, but even 4 can't compare to just restoring a couple dozen or whatever in one concentrate due to her passive.
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I never had too much trouble keeping my Sanae alive in LoT1 but that certainly was the most consistent complaint I've heard about her.
And yeah, like Ghaleon said, they really aren't similar enough to make the other redundant. We could go into depth about the various different skills they have or we could just say they're both good supports.
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Yea neither one makes the other one redundant, they're both capable front line healers with different focus due to their abilities. Sanaes has higher base MAG though and she always heals her target to full in my experience, so it's only the speed disadvantage that matters in my mind. That and Sanae's heal is annoying if you have Hina in your party...
Anyways, I was fooling around against the Great "C", some 100 levels above challenge level trying to nuke all 5 of them with Flandre. The first one in the center seems to take a whole lot more damage than the others, or it has less health than the others, since I was able to pretty much oneshot that one while the other 4 only took ~50 % damage. Then after the first one died and was resurrected, it seemed to have similar sturdiness to the others. Anyone else noticed this?
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Might depend on when you nuked it. Any instance will have heightened defense before it takes its first turn.
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I'm aware of the defense they have before their first turn, you'll be lucky to get 1 damage done when it's up on those. So it's definitely not that what's causing this.
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Yea neither one makes the other one redundant, they're both capable front line healers with different focus due to their abilities. Sanaes has higher base MAG though and she always heals her target to full in my experience, so it's only the speed disadvantage that matters in my mind. That and Sanae's heal is annoying if you have Hina in your party...
Hmmm if we are talking about Labyrinth of Touhou 1, I tried both and I don't think Sanae was able to heal my party to full, which is somewhat painful at some fights. Even Minoriko doesn't heal some characters to full from a strong hit, but her healing does do more.
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Hmmm if we are talking about Labyrinth of Touhou 1, I tried both and I don't think Sanae was able to heal my party to full, which is somewhat painful at some fights. Even Minoriko doesn't heal some characters to full from a strong hit, but her healing does do more.
I believe this was LoT2 talk, based on the initial question by CrazyManiacz. I can't say anything about them in LoT1 since I haven't played that game.
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Ah, I have just started Labyrinth of Touhou 2 recently, so no comment on them.
Anyone know the approximate damage formula for each spell card? I noticed Minoriko's AoE spell card does quite a bit of damage.
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Ah, I have just started Labyrinth of Touhou 2 recently, so no comment on them.
Anyone know the approximate damage formula for each spell card? I noticed Minoriko's AoE spell card does quite a bit of damage.
Nope, spellcard formulas are a complete mystery unfortunately.
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And hacking into the game with Cheat Engine or other methods doesn't work, I take it?
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Cheat engine probably wouldn't be the best tool. I imagine you'd need to use a runtime debugger like OllyDbg and document the assembly involved in calculating damage. This would probably also be a monumental pain to do, due to the number of variable involved. I'm assuming this is how they were known on the jp wiki for LoT1 before the database came out, but LoT1 also used simpler formulas.
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Cheat Engine (at least from what I've seen so far) can just get you items and monies really easily. And I mean really easily. This game is very simple to hack into.
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Just wondering, when is the Special Disk (is that what it's called?) for LoT2 coming out? Oh, and I presume it's gonna bring 12 new characters like LoT1's Special Disk?
Excited for the potential characters that may come out :D
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If it works like LoT1, it will probably add new dungeons as well. Since I don't have the first game, that's as far as I'll go about that.
In terms of new characters, they would very likely be from DDC.
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I'm betting that it'd lean more towards TD characters first, then maybe DDC. As for when it comes out, we haven't heard anything. It might be Comiket 87, but at this point, it's probably more likely to be Comiket 88.
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Shou and Futo are confirmed so far. IIRC there's supposedly going to be a significant amount of new floors, boss fights with every playable character that doesn't have one yet, and an infinite dungeon.
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Oh yes, boss fight Eirin, les go.
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It might be Comiket 87, but at this point, it's probably more likely to be Comiket 88.
Interesting.
Although I'm not planning on getting the expansion until it gets translated and I finish the base game. The latter should take a good year or so as a result of school and part-time job.
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Just killed Sakuya with a DTH effect using Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana on the first try (playing an NG+)
lol'd so hard
Managed to kill an extremely buffed Remilia, hooray
By the way, @Serela An infinite dungeon? Like, infinite floors or you can explore a randomly generated map for infinity?
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Taking my time advancing this game. So far, Youmu makes a pretty good tank.
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I dont think there were any details given about the infinite dungeon, but i imagine its infinite floors since balancing the trash encounters for a single floor of infinite size would be really wonky.
Also if hatate isnt one of the new characters im gonna refuse to buy it and snap all my lot discs in half (ok i lie, ill buy it and like it and treat my discs like gold).
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Just wondering, when is the Special Disk (is that what it's called?) for LoT2 coming out? Oh, and I presume it's gonna bring 12 new characters like LoT1's Special Disk?
Excited for the potential characters that may come out :D
LoT1's Special Disk brought 8 new characters not 12. And I think the name for LoT2's expansion is the Append Disk.
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(http://i.imgur.com/xd2A8Br.png)
Help ... I don't know anything about this sort of thing
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If that's the post-game area, it's a common issue. Just hit Ignore and hold down the I key till you eventually go through it.
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If that's the post-game area, it's a common issue. Just hit Ignore and hold down the I key till you eventually go through it.
I don't understand how, but that worked ... Wow.
Do you have an explanation maybe?
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It's an error that makes your computer mad, but doesn't actually make the game stop working. The game will advance a frame (at the least? I haven't had that error so) or so each time you ignore and eventually you pass through the problem spot.
It started when the english patch added in full dialogue translation/etc, dunno what's actually causing it, might be something totally silly like a formatting error.
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is this still happening? Where is it?
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Where do I find the thing that does the thing that lets me get past the 9th floor's extra area's rock. The text box says "on a lower floor", but I didn't find anything on the 8th floor's extra area (including stairs)
Is it even lower down? Highly doubt that 'cause there's no more extra areas ...
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is this still happening? Where is it?
Haven't checked the latest update patch, so I'm not sure if it's still happening. It's possible Flamon has an older version.
Where do I find the thing that does the thing that lets me get past the 9th floor's extra area's rock. The text box says "on a lower floor", but I didn't find anything on the 8th floor's extra area (including stairs)
Is it even lower down? Highly doubt that 'cause there's no more extra areas ...
Try checking Floor 10. I think it might be there.
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Try checking Floor 10. I think it might be there.
(http://puu.sh/cbSg4.jpg)
Unless it's in that left area, then there's nothing on the 10th floor (Is there anything to the left there anyway?)
I highly doubt it's one of the 'crystals' on the 11th floor that you get to from the center of the 10th floor (Even then, I've tested two of them, and they didn't work)
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Ok I THINK it might be on Floor 8 then. I can't remember myself.
@qazmlpok I checked one of the rocks that gave me issues before, and it the issue is gone, so it's probably just from the previous patch.
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Ok I THINK it might be on Floor 8 then. I can't remember myself.
Nothing on the 8th floor. Just a bunch of items (Even after that floor, I didn't get an Accuracy Tome or the 116th sub-item ...)
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The only rock I remember on 9f was related to how many party members you had recruited... or maybe it was how many shadow bosses you'd defeated. What does it actually say, for the sake of jogging memory?
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The only rock I remember on 9f was related to how many party members you had recruited... or maybe it was how many shadow bosses you'd defeated. What does it actually say, for the sake of jogging memory?
(http://puu.sh/ccHzI.jpg)
I also get that error I got earlier ...
For the record: I've done everything in the after game other than beating two of the Extra bosses (One of which is right behind this rock)
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I'm wondering, since Patchouli and Parsee has such crazy Mind, has any try to use them in conjunction with Yukari?
EDIT: Level 27 Youmu can tank Yuugi's Knock Out in Three Steps with anti physical setup. But how can you keep Minoriko alive long enough to get to that phase, so you can outheal the damage.
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I had Yukari on my team once or twice and that skill isn't overly noticeable on those two.
Let's say Parsee and Patchy have such low Def that we assume it as 0 -
Then you end up with them having Defense equal to half their Mind, with all investments (Library levels, Level up bonuses) working at half efficiency.
Since they have such low Health they need a sky high defensive stat (granted, Parsee's health isn't that bad) to be able to actually tank something and not just survive stray hits.
People like Yuugi, I guess Yuyuko, - basically those who can back up their skewed defense with decent Health can make more use of it.
It's all in all a really situational skill that only benefits very few characters.
Because your glass cannons will still not be able to survive even with it and dedicated tanks for either side can't suddenly just shrug off attacks from the other.
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It's a pretty good skill to have around since there's a lot of people with lopsided defenses who are going to take a hit they can probably survive with it sooner or later, but it's not some awesome strat. It takes Patchouli up to "survivable with a first aid kit", but her def would still be kinda meh so any significant attack would down her. Sadly there's very little in the way of row attacks this time, and the MT physicals don't mess around.
That being said, Parsee's def already isn't half bad (and she has more mnd than patch) and her HP isn't all too bad either- if you just give her a first aid kit (and throw all her levelups into MND, since it -is- literally twice as high as def so half=still more) she's probably pretty silly. When teamed with Yukari. The main detriment (apart from the obvious "needs yukari") on ultratank Parsee is that her innate passives/skills... don't really help much. At least there's the DRK boost and immunity to debuffs.
Although after Yukari falls down or needs to get switched out, suddenly Parsee would have a significant hole in her defenses, so if you -really- wanted to try that out you might be better off building most of her levelups into DEF. The bottom line though, is probably that, unless the boss almost only uses magic, Parsee tank wouldn't be worth the effort- there's no one in this game that manages to work being a great tank just because of good stats.
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Well I guess it isn't strong enough to use with super lopesided defense characters. I guess Youmu and Yuugi probably benefit the most from it, since they have high hp and lopesided defenses.
I am probably going to try out Komachi's Narrow Confines of Avaci using Satori. That spell uses the magic stat and Komachi's magic sucks, but the damage is at least lowish decent.
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Satori can make some really good use of the spells of some of the defensive characters.
Narrow Confines especially deals incredibly high damage, Suika's Mist-spell ist quite strong too.
Basically all those characters that either have a spell that uses their worse attacking stat or who have low base stats have spells with rather high multipliers which can be abused by Satori.
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Oh, I never thought about using it with the characters who have magic attacks, but -very- low magic.
I thought about "low base high formula" characters, but in this game, that's been toned down some; I mostly only thought of Rumia (whose mag stat is actually pretty high after quick level/cheap library...), and whilst you get pretty good numbers doing that, it's nothing glorious. The next big thing is composite attackers since Satori has quite high atk -and- mag, and most composite users are only "fairly good" in each, or at least averaged. What I didn't realize was there are "low base high formula" characters whose attack normally doesn't do shit in the first place.
Satori can also make a great gambler later in the game via boosting her mp, as getting 25% back on retreat to back row can give you an awful lot of mp back if you've gotten it up there. You can even stay away from the passive that makes her glass (as that's only 30% boost out of the 90% total boost the class gives) if you want to keep her ability to live due to super-high-hp.
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So I ran some rough tests with Satori and certain spells. Satori had equipment that boosts Attack and Magic equally and was Strategist, so nothing favoured here.
Characters I checked out were: Tenshi, Reimu, Ran, Suika's "Gathering & Dissipating", Hina's "Ohgane's Fire" and Komachi's "Narrow Confines of Avici"
I tested those spells on the Floor 1 Kedamas, since they are neutral to all of them (except for Ohganes Fire, more on that later)
Mixed Satori with practically equal attacking stats:
Gathering & Dissipating (fully magical) was strongest by not much, with Confines (only Magic as well) as a close second but both did way more damage than the other spells.
Reimu's composite spells dealt high damage as well, but not as much.
Ran's and Tenshi's spells were decent but not really anything to speak of.
Ohgane's Fire was actually rather bad, given that it struck a weakness.
Magical Satori with about 50% more Magic, 50% less Attack
Gathering & Dissipating melts faces. Confines too, but slightly less.
YinYang Orb & Phantasy Seal dealt the same damage
Ran's En no Ozu was slightly stronger, FYT Laser and Princess Tenko as well (given, they are magic spells) and did quite good damage.
Ohgane's Fire of course was stronger as well and deals useable damage.
Tenshi's spells of course are weaker considering their physical nature.
Physical Satori with about 50% more Attack, 50% less Magic
Gathering/Dissipating and Confines much, much weaker.
Reimu's spells still same damage
En no Ozu slightly weaker, FYT L aser/Tenko weaker of course
Ohgane's Fire nothing to speak of
Tenshi's Spells quite strong.
Bottomline: Gathering & Dissipating & Narrow Confines of Avici are imho the most abuseable spells out of the ones I've tested (and I suppose out of all available spells) but the attacks of the rest of those characters are decent as well.
So if you just want straight up damage and have both Suika and Komachi or can guarantee that one of them is out whenever Satori is fielded then go and run a magic build on her. Otherwise I'll stick to mixed since both Confines and Mist gained only about a third increase in damage for me when switching to magic which then costs you the versatility from being able to use physical attacks properly.
But I'm quite surprised that Gathering/Dissipating actually has a higher formula than Confines. Maybe it was to be expected since Confines carries much more utility and is also a multi target attack instead of Row target.
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I'm not surprised; Suika's MAG stat is almost nonexistent (patchouli dump stat tier) and they may not have realized the Satori potential in the spell. I'm curious how it compares to damage nukes in a comparatively normal party (in Gambler build since Satori is a great fit imo), and how well it pierces mnd.
You could run Satori as a mag/atk mix but the issue is not just the third damage loss from avici/gathering, but that her physical skills probably take more of a loss than that from not being in a full atk build since they're going to be more typical skills that haven't already gone far, far past the damage tier they were balanced for. Especially considering how many bosses are difficult to hurt through their defenses in ideal situations already. Assuming some of your regular tank/supports have a decent mag or composite skill Satori should be fine going all in. (It helps some that her default skill is MAG, even if not particularly good)
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I guess the thing about mixed Satori and physical spells is partly true. It's just that I gave her stuff that raises everything (Title of Grandmaster Breaker, Ame no Murakumo and something) and she always managed to deal damage with physical spells.
However it is true that there are less abuseable spells on the physical side than there are magical ones.
It really is only Tenshi in the party I have Satori in. :V
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A thought about Satori...
Would giving her Sheer Force make her completely broken?
I would also consider giving her Thousand Year Exile for the sake of recharging her MP faster.
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A thought about Satori...
Would giving her Sheer Force make her completely broken?
I would also consider giving her Thousand Year Exile for the sake of recharging her MP faster.
Satori needs none of those abilities.
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Does the charagraph folder work the same in LOT2. I tried to import my charagraph as I start LOT2 but nothing changes when I start a new game.
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Does the charagraph folder work the same in LOT2. I tried to import my charagraph as I start LOT2 but nothing changes when I start a new game.
Why would you even want to replace the artwork in LoT2? Its absolutely gorgeous in my opinion and I basically replaced my LoT1 charagraph with LoT2 artwork.
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Mainly because I made one using some of my favorite artwork. The artwork in LOT2 is really good, especially compared to the original. I just prefer using what I compiled. Do I have to have a charagraph for every character which is why it's not registering or is there an option in game?
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It has the charagraph folder but I've never seen or heard of anyone actually using it, so there's no evidence to suggest it's functional. I'm not sure why it's there.
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Characters I checked out were: Tenshi, Reimu, Ran, Suika's "Gathering & Dissipating", Hina's "Ohgane's Fire" and Komachi's "Narrow Confines of Avici"
I tested those spells on the Floor 1 Kedamas, since they are neutral to all of them (except for Ohganes Fire, more on that later)
I am not that far yet, so I don't have Tenshi, Ran, or Suika. I did try out Komachi's Narrow Confines of Avici and the damage was really good with Satori.
Would giving her Sheer Force make her completely broken?
I would also consider giving her Thousand Year Exile for the sake of recharging her MP faster.
Not too sure if Sheer Force would make her broken. Doesn't Sheer Force just mean you can hit resistant enemies easier? You would normally just rather hit weakness anyway, especially with her skill that increases weakness damage.
As for Thousand Year Exile, I guess that could help, but she already has the skill to recover 25% MP on switch out.
@Charagraph: I also like the artwork of Labyrinth of Touhou 2 quite a bit. Though, the drawing of some character's breasts are exaggerated, making it look weird.
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Does the charagraph folder work the same in LOT2. I tried to import my charagraph as I start LOT2 but nothing changes when I start a new game.
The names of the files are 01_L.png, 01_S.png, 01_SS.png, numbers presumably going in the order of the character list. I'm not sure on the best dimensions of the files.
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@Charagraph: I also like the artwork of Labyrinth of Touhou 2 quite a bit. Though, the drawing of some character's breasts are exaggerated, making it look weird.
Tries to come up with an argument to defend meiling proportions on this game* Nope, I got nothing
I got this nutsy idea on my head of the last floor enemies on the bonus disk being the V2 version of touhou bosses, but instead of a rehash battle like in LoT1 they come randomized in teams of 3 max
Example: you can encounter Remilia,Yukari,Iku V2 on a random encounter, any combination of 1,2 or 3 touhou bosses, imagine the whackyness possibilities and the BS they could pull off with difficult combinations
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I also like the artwork of Labyrinth of Touhou 2 quite a bit. Though, the drawing of some character's breasts are exaggerated, making it look weird.
You don't know how much I agree with this comment. Sanae is the 'biggest' offender. There's also Meiling too, and Yuuka, Yukari, and Keine aren't excused either. Funny though, I would expect Komachi and Yuugi to be like this as well, but they're actually not. They're within reasonable proportions. It still isn't bad art though, pretty good.
@DarkAtma
That would be evil. You would pretty much never be prepared. Oh god, the chaos. Mirror + Blue Oni + Knowledge.
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I'm glad people are complaining that the breast sizes are "too big" rather than too small. Some people never understand that bigger isn't always better.
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You don't know how much I agree with this comment. Sanae is the 'biggest' offender. There's also Meiling too, and Yuuka, Yukari, and Keine aren't excused either. Funny though, I would expect Komachi and Yuugi to be like this as well, but they're actually not. They're within reasonable proportions. It still isn't bad art though, pretty good.
@DarkAtma
That would be evil. You would pretty much never be prepared. Oh god, the chaos. Mirror + Blue Oni + Knowledge.
I only had touhou bosses in mind, a mix of other ones would be overkill in some cases
I'm glad people are complaining that the breast sizes are "too big" rather than too small. Some people never understand that bigger isn't always better.
My only complaint is sanae, Looks like they did fanon levels of size >_>
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I'm glad people are complaining that the breast sizes are "too big" rather than too small. Some people never understand that bigger isn't always better.
On an average, I adore the artwork of LoT2. There's just one of them that has always bugged me, so I'm jumping on the complain-about-busts-train: Iku's
It's not that hers is objectively too big, it's just that the rest of her upper body is extremely thin in relation. The angle of her portrait is different from most characters in that it is turned more sideways. That somehow didn't work out for the artist.
Poor Iku's lower back must give her terrible agony... :(
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It works on some characters and doesn't look all out of place on them but on the majority of the ones with that kinda portrait it looks rather phoned in.
Kanako's aren't really smaller than Sanae's but Kanako's build makes them look less oversized for example.
Some just feel kinda awkward to look at.
Something else that always looked odd to me though is the apparent lack of noses on some characters. It's most noticeable on Sanae and no matter the way I look at her she just doesn't have one. (Neither does Yuyuko and some others)
But yeah, artworks are mostly really nice to look at.
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Something else that always looked odd to me though is the apparent lack of noses on some characters.
I noticed this as well and went through the character portraits to see the big picture across the roster. Only clear noses are on portraits where the head is viewed from the side, otherwise it's nothing or just a pixel you might as well consider a stain on your monitor. Well, this type of "anime" style art doesn't really focus much on noses anyway, but in this game the lack of them is more apparent.
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So, I came back to playing this after a break, when I got stuck at the shadow bosses.
And decided to look at their stats.
How am I supposed to win against enemies with 200,000 def and mnd (blue orchid)? Or 300,000 def and 200,000 mnd, and 900 speed (Mirror)?
I'm barely able to damage the poisonous wasp, which has a mere 88,000 def, 44,000 mnd. And 1,600 speed (Character-speed. LoT2 does do the same adjustment as LoT1). Kasen is hitting for 0, Sakuya's piercing lets her do an incredible 8k damage with misdirection (and that's on a weakness).
Is the only way to just grind up to 200-something and curbstomp these guys? I barely managed to take out demonic eye and kraken. Malignut was a piece of cake, since he's vulnerable to dth. I'm at average level 135, and orchid's challenge level is 122.
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Orchid
drops its defensive stats as it uses "Shell Melter" over and over again over the course of the fight. Just set yourself up until that happens
otherwise, use characters with complete pierce.
Rumia, Eiki, someone I forgot, Kaguya work rather well.
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Huh. Did not know that. I figured it was just an anti-debuff thing.
Anyway, one more down. Got a genji glove too.
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I have always wondered, there is nothing like hidden character values right? For example
Patchouli with 1000 DEF
Tenshi With 1000 DEF
Both should take the same amount of damage from the same enemy, right?
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Well, as long as their affinities are the same too.
It's hard to test, though, since there is a bit of variance built in.
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There are also their skills which you have to remember what is in effect. Patchouli has some skill that lowers the damage of whatever element she has used. Tenshi has some physical damage reduction skills.
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Not too sure if Sheer Force would make her broken. Doesn't Sheer Force just mean you can hit resistant enemies easier? You would normally just rather hit weakness anyway, especially with her skill that increases weakness damage.
Well, when you think about spells like Narrow Confines of Avici and Gathering and Dissipating as face melting nukes, why wouldn't you want a way to make it so that they can't be resisted by affinity? Plus, if you consider the fact that both spells do inflicts debuffs and status ailments too, you can easily see why I asked if it was broken or not, since Satori could theoretically have access to any spell, and if they can inflict debuffs or status ailments(Comet on Earth, Discarder, and of course Narrow Confines of Avici come to mind), well...
As for Thousand Year Exile, I guess that could help, but she already has the skill to recover 25% MP on switch out.
I thought of that skill due to the fact that she'll be in the back due to being somewhat slow and fragile. Thousand Year Exile speeds up the process of recovery while in the back, so I thought that it would be useful without being broken.
Still if it's unneeded, maybe she could have Final Blow instead? She does have a spell that inflicts Silence, after all, and she can copy spells that can inflict ailments as well, so it should be a good fit...
On a separate note, I had thought of something for Sanae: a skill to replace her "Youkai Buster" skill, since Reimu already has it...
Ability to create miracles
Skill cost: 8
Max Lv: 2
Effect: While Sanae is on the frontline, there is a (SLv * 10)% chance of any spellcard cast to cost no MP.
Explanation: This is essentially the "20% chance of casting for free" skill, but for the entire frontline. This skill alone would make Sanae truly stand out among her peers, as no other character can grant such an effect to everyone at the same time. Of course, I would still want her to possess the skill "Grand Incantation" as well, since it would be most helpful in strengthening her ability to heal, as it's the only heal spell outside of Eirin's "Hourai Elixir" to be capable of curing all status ailments, and unless I'm remembering it wrong, debuffs as well.
What do you think?
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Hmmm I don't know, it doesn't seem like Sanae's character to make skills cost zero. Maybe a skill with chance to cause her spell to be stronger. Or chance to cause her single target spells to become area spells. Or chance to recover MP for front line at the start of her action if she is in front line.
Well, when you think about spells like Narrow Confines of Avici and Gathering and Dissipating as face melting nukes, why wouldn't you want a way to make it so that they can't be resisted by affinity?
I thought Sheer Force does not completely negate affinity resistance? I thought it was just partial negation. The stats thing may make it overpowered though. Hard to say, how successful is a Sheer Force user at using Status Ailments?
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I thought Sheer Force does not completely negate affinity resistance? I thought it was just partial negation. The stats thing may make it overpowered though. Hard to say, how successful is a Sheer Force user at using Status Ailments?
It can be hard to tell since individual moves have different status hit rates, but Kogasa's powerful MND debuff pretty much never seems to miss on anything, and she'll land Terror a decent amount of the time even on normally-nigh-immune bosses (albeit it doesn't last all that long)
Satori is already a pretty good character IMO (especially with the avici nuke that was just publicized), she just doesn't see a whole lot of use due to being gimmicky.
Sanae is also a VERY potent party member until Byakuren mostly obsoletes buffing characters. Miracle Fruits is amazing and her heal is already fine imo, especially if she miracle fruits herself (which is a good idea because spd/def/mnd) And she already recovers party TP at the end of battle sometimes, even without being in the front four. Recovering front line MP is Reimu's passive and Sanae doesn't even have a single target skill normally?
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@ Kirin no Sora
Well Satori does have a buttload of HP, so she's not 'quite' fragile. And if you're using her as a gambler, you don't have to use the 'take more damage, deal more damage' skill.
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Recovering front line MP is Reimu's passive and Sanae doesn't even have a single target skill normally?
Yeah, but it makes more sense to me for the other suggestion, chance to have MP cost = 0.
Both her heal and buff are single target. I was mainly referring to those skills.
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Will someone mind telling me where the last post game tome of awakenings are? I forgot where they were.
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ok, I'm down to 3 shadow bosses left.
How do I beat Mirror of Darkness
? I'm about 13 levels over the challenge, and I'm completely stuck. As I said before, 300k def, 200k mnd. I'm trying to use defense piercing attacks;; Sakuya does 8k, Utsuho ~30k, Eiki ~50k, Rumia ~25k, and this is with close to 100% buffs. The 200 affinity to those elements doesn't help. Only 150 phys affinity, but I think 300k def is too much for Nitori to pierce, even with a -50% def debuff. Even if it works, super scope is not going to do spectacular damage, and it's not a spammable attack.
Then there's the attacks, which hit really hard. The cold and fire nukes especially have a tendency to oneshot people through full buffs, and stacking affinity items prevents me from getting good damage on my attackers.
I seriously have no idea how to fight this guy. My best attempt has probably been like 200k damage total. And he has 1,488,000 HP.
He's critically vulnerable to SIL, but does that even do anything significant?
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He's critically vulnerable to SIL, but does that even do anything significant?
Silence lowers a good portion mind, so that will be a huge help.
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ok, I'm down to 3 shadow bosses left.
How do I beat Mirror of Darkness
? I'm about 13 levels over the challenge, and I'm completely stuck. As I said before, 300k def, 200k mnd. I'm trying to use defense piercing attacks;; Sakuya does 8k, Utsuho ~30k, Eiki ~50k, Rumia ~25k, and this is with close to 100% buffs. The 200 affinity to those elements doesn't help. Only 150 phys affinity, but I think 300k def is too much for Nitori to pierce, even with a -50% def debuff. Even if it works, super scope is not going to do spectacular damage, and it's not a spammable attack.
Then there's the attacks, which hit really hard. The cold and fire nukes especially have a tendency to oneshot people through full buffs, and stacking affinity items prevents me from getting good damage on my attackers.
I seriously have no idea how to fight this guy. My best attempt has probably been like 200k damage total. And he has 1,488,000 HP.
He's critically vulnerable to SIL, but does that even do anything significant?
What are your stat levels at? I pretty much just used Eiki to pierce and that was around 100k -150k depending on her buffs.
I had the level stats all into attack for Eiki and Speed for Byakuren and Reisen, then had all my extra stats around 130 with +20-30 in elements on challenge level for everyone.
It took a while, but with the mirror massively debuffed, between Hina and Reisen, all the time and all my characters with 80%+ stats with Byakuren, I took less damage than the guy in the youtube video doing the enhanced boss rush. I still don't know how that guy has that much health and deals that much damage though... he had to have been insanely overleveled.
With that being said, I had a much harder time with the Mirror and Magatama, any version of them really, than the other end game bosses because of their absurd defenses and resistances.
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Here's Eiki.
http://i.imgur.com/FolkQdS.png
I just did some more grinding out of necessity, so I don't know her damage output yet. Or if she can even survive long enough for me to find out.
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You should at least get her HP, ATK, and Speed to be at least the same as her actual level, I tried to keep everything even though.
Speed is one of the best things you can increase with your money or levels for anyone. My Byakuren was almost as fast as Aya, but could give better buffs.
Giving some elemental resistance wouldn't hurt either. I think this is ignored by a good many people.
Getting some resistances up to around level 20 doesn't hurt the bank too much and helps a great deal with survival.
I had my stats at half of my level for the main game, but that just didn't cut it for post game.
I had to cheese the first 3 shadows :3 and I did close to 0 damage on the Shadow Kraken at first with my other characters.
My Eiki was a Transcendant and I made Byakuren a Strategist so she could keep 100% buffs on her self, copy them over to anyone and give the extra passives to the party.
I don't recall making anyone a Monk either, though that might have been good on Aya.
After you do all that, giving her more ATK items will be great. 3 of the items you have on her aren't too hot.
Of course, getting the rest of your party set up is going to make a difference as well.
What other post game bosses have you defeated?
PS
On a side note, has anyone gotten the treasure in the middle of Extra Floor 9 next to the original floor? I don't see any way to get to it....
Here is the SS http://i.imgur.com/VqctHE9.jpg
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The main thing would be getting your characters' status levels closer to their actual level.
Next would be to fix your itemization on Eiki (and probably some of your other attackers as well) because they are NOT supposed to take hits (except maybe Utsuho, since you could make an argument for the Overheating skill and Nitori for the same reason as well as Maintenance). If you're going to use Nitori and Utsuho with that in mind, it might be worth it to give them a sub class with a cheap low delay spell. They can quickly build up stacks of Overheating in theory and unleash their nuke before retreating. I say in theory since I doubt you have the items to make Nitori broken and Utsuho is much squishier than Nitori since she lacks Maintenance.
Cinderforge Sword on Eiki is fine but Regeneradors Heart and Divine Barrier need to go. Itemize your Tanks/ Healers/ Supports for SPD and defenses with SPD given more emphasis, while you itemize your attackers for damage and SPD.
I honestly think the best way to deal with the Mirror is to use hit and run tactics with Glass Cannon characters that have defense piercing attacks. You're not going to out heal the damage if your attackers are taking hits too and dealing such low amounts of damage is demoralizing, which could potentially affect your decision making as the fight drags on.
This is of course assuming you can get your SPD high enough to match it though. I haven't fought the boss in awhile and thus don't remember how fast it moves so take this with a grain of salt.
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The main thing would be getting your characters' status levels closer to their actual level.
Next would be to fix your itemization on Eiki (and probably some of your other attackers as well) because they are NOT supposed to take hits (except maybe Utsuho, since you could make an argument for the Overheating skill and Nitori for the same reason as well as Maintenance). If you're going to use Nitori and Utsuho with that in mind, it might be worth it to give them a sub class with a cheap low delay spell. They can quickly build up stacks of Overheating in theory and unleash their nuke before retreating. I say in theory since I doubt you have the items to make Nitori broken and Utsuho is much squishier than Nitori since she lacks Maintenance.
Cinderforge Sword on Eiki is fine but Regeneradors Heart and Divine Barrier need to go. Itemize your Tanks/ Healers/ Supports for SPD and defenses with SPD given more emphasis, while you itemize your attackers for damage and SPD.
I honestly think the best way to deal with the Mirror is to use hit and run tactics with Glass Cannon characters that have defense piercing attacks. You're not going to out heal the damage if your attackers are taking hits too and dealing such low amounts of damage is demoralizing, which could potentially affect your decision making as the fight drags on.
This is of course assuming you can get your SPD high enough to match it though. I haven't fought the boss in awhile and thus don't remember how fast it moves so take this with a grain of salt.
I've already spent about 500k money raising people's stat levels, so actually getting people to match their actual level really isn't an option.
Having my attackers not get hit would be ideal, but it's really not an option. Furthermore, the problem isn't that I'm not doing enough damage. It's that I'm not able to attack in the first place. He drains everyone's MP at the start, and I spend several minutes just trying to get Byakuren to buff everyone (the spd buff enhances their MP regeneration above all, and the def/mnd makes it slightly safer to switch them around) and switching healers around because he hits so damn hard. That's why Eiki (and everyone else) has divine barriers and regenerador hearts - stacking HP and defenses (fir and cld for his nukes, drk, mys, phy for his more common attacks).
I really don't have any opportunity to switch people in without risking them getting hit by a nuke. He outspeeds everyone except Aya with a 50% speed buff. His lowest delay is 7500, highest (excluding djinn storm) is 2500. Except I can't switch an attacker in after the 2500-delay nukes, since I need to switch healers in/wounded out, since no one is strong enough to withstand two consecutive nukes, even with the defensive setup I have.
His stats, from memory:
1,488,000 HP
300,000 def
200,000 mnd
900 speed (This is the same as character speed, and uses the same diminishing returns formula)
300 fir/cld/ntr/wnd
200 drk/mys/spi
150 phy
200 dth, 0 sil, I think 64 dbf, and 100 everything else (Although Kasen somehow managed to land trr, thanks to Reisen's presence).
SIL does greatly reduce his mnd, but even with sil and a 50% debuff, it's still insane. Yuuka was able to use flower shoot for about 10k damage or so. With extra attack factored in, that's about as good as the defense ignorers. And without SIL, no one is able to touch him without defense-ignoring attacks. Yuuka has 18k mag; with a 100% buff and 50% debuff, he still has almost 3x as much defense as her attack stat. Even then, he resists everything, so the damage is terrible.
What other post game bosses have you defeated?
The first 9 shadow bosses. I might be able to take out Amnesiary at this point, but I haven't tried since I first entered the post game.
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The first 9 shadow bosses. I might be able to take out Amnesiary at this point, but I haven't tried since I first entered the post game.
Amnesiary is harder than the two bosses that follow it IMO, so it's worth a try, especially if you have any interest in Mari/Renko.The Mirror and Magatama are awful, and seem like you need a heavy debuff team -and- def piercing attacks to get through without going like 30 levels over... (Although I'm curious which boss you haven't beaten other than those two, assuming magatama is one of the other unbeaten, I think there was 12 shadow bosses right?)
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Mirror, Magatama, and 3 orbs. I haven't touched Magatama, and the 3 orbs hit hard enough that I wanted to put them off for a while. Mirror doesn't hit quite as hard, but the huge defenses and calamity really mess up any chance of attacking.
Wiki says I can't get the sealing club without all 12 shadow bosses defeated. I could beat the first two, but it looks like they don't drop anything, so I'm not really inclined to try.
also, debuffing Mirror doesn't work too well. His resistance is high enough that no one can reliably land anything unless Reisen is out. She has good enough survivability, but the whole MP drainage thing means she runs out quickly, so I can't keep him debuffed.
...also, apparently I completely forgot about 9F extra entirely. I activated the waypoint and went back to 10F to finish exploring it, and never remembered to come back. Whoops. Maybe I can find some useful items down here. And more levels.
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I seriously have no idea how to fight this guy.
The other people gave quite good advice already, I'll just add a bit to that.
In all simplicity for that fight you will need someone to 1) buff, 2) heal, 3) debuff and 4) damage. For me the most efficient party was Byakuren, Reimu, Reisen and Eiki. For main equips you should have those MP recovery boosting items so you can spend less turns charging up. Since only Eiki needs attacks stats, you can focus your equips on the other 3 to just be able to take hits and move fast, while you give Eiki those big all-boosters (Great Question's Mask etc.) to get her some damage without sacrificing too much damage. Eiki as transcendant also helps in keeping her alive while being a damage dealer. After that I'd suggest raising MND and SPD Voile stats as close to challenge level as you can afford for those 4. With this setup I didn't have to change front line party at all, most attacks didn't do damage at all and even the biggest attack of the boss only took ~50% health from the weakest character (Reisen).
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With full attack gear (including exp mirv), all level-up bonuses in atk, and 100 voile levelups, Eiki has 27878 atk at level 152.
Doing a quick test run, with an 87-89% atk buff, she did just under 80k damage a hit. Which is, admittedly, a lot more than I expected. Her speed is 252, compared to his 900. She probably is my best bet (although I just noticed Rumia has piercing attack, so she might be able to double as a weak attacker and healer), but that's still almost 20 switch-in-attack-out combos to pull off.
I can dump my 480k money into her attack stat, and get 41k (although I'd put plenty in speed too). Not even double, and since she ignores defenses it will only do proportionate damage.
I guess if I use every other character for support, it should be possible, but man is this going to be ugly.
aaaaand got him.
Although I think average level of 160 after exploring the rest of the Extra areas is the real reason I won. Eiki was able to hit for 100k, plus a small chance of 200 from the Genji glove. And Rumia indeed was a good secondary attacker; 35k-50k per Moonlight, and was actually study enough to take a hit, unlike Eiki. No one died until the very end, after the second great calamity, when Aya got hit. I'm pretty sure he got a huge damage boost at that phase, since he certainly wasn't hitting that hard earlier.
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Very nice.
Does anyone know exactly what was changed after the shadow boss rush?
The text says that the layout of the tree has changed, but I haven't seen anything different myself.
Also, does anyone know how to get this treasure chest?
http://i.imgur.com/VqctHE9.jpg
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I actually trough i had that item, checked all unexplored side squares on 9F and nothing, and i dont think 10F extra got any holes to fall, so i am blank in this
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Also, does anyone know how to get this treasure chest?
http://i.imgur.com/VqctHE9.jpg
You can't.
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Why is it there then ???
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Why is it there then ???
A few of us decided to think of it as content for future patch.
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I wish to complain again by throwing out numbers.
Magatama has an initial speed of 720. Def and Mnd are both 256,000.
By my calculations, after he uses catastrophe, his speed is increased to 3727.
Also his regeneration causes buffs to decay twice as fast.
And the speed formula means that speed debuffs aren't as useful - 3727 speed is 903/tick. 50% debuff means 1863, or 643/tick. 71% of the original value. Not that it's really feasible to debuff someone moving so quickly and getting a free turn every turn.
So, yeah...
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Yeah, Magatama is crazy. IIRC it's attacks were not as scary, though and affinites weren't as wall-y. The issue eventually becomes more that it's just so damn fast.
HP reduction is also easier to get through than MP reduction so long as you don't get sniped before Reimu/Rumia do their thing.
The orbs aren't nearly as problematic, partially because it's possible to nuke one out right away depending on your party composition; the Magatama/Mirror are just absurd.
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Yeah, magatama was a lot less threatening compared to mirror at first. Regeneration was annoying, as I couldn't quite play defensively, but Eiki was doing ~200k since his affinities aren't insane.
Then I hit catastrophe. Yeah...
I finally found a video on it. He's weak to dark, but I never noticed that starbow break was dark. So he finished magatama off with a single 1.3m or so break right after it used catastrophe. He's only ~15 levels ahead of where I am, but I'm only able to do about 200-300k. Probably more if I can get in a few debuffs, but that's not easy to do.
Either way, she's definitely going to be key. It takes a mere 12 ticks for him to followup on catastrophe; if I use Aya, Flandre, and Eiki all at once it might be possible. But oh man is this going to be dependent on luck. Eiki might survive a single hit, but Flandre is gonna go down from literally anything multitarget.
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I'm assuming that's with Gambler Flandre. You might consider (if not already have done) switching Shikieiki to gambler (without the takes-increased-damage passive if you need her decent durability) for the sake of more burst damage to get through post-catastrophe, as well.
Those 15 levels make a big difference when you're overcoming the def ceiling, for better or for worse.
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Has nobody actually found out what is that item? even if using cheat engine to walk trough walls or something of the sort? Or...I believe you can edit the floor tiles in the game files, just add a path to it?
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I'm assuming that's with Gambler Flandre. You might consider (if not already have done) switching Shikieiki to gambler (without the takes-increased-damage passive if you need her decent durability) for the sake of more burst damage to get through post-catastrophe, as well.
Those 15 levels make a big difference when you're overcoming the def ceiling, for better or for worse.
Yeah, I switched Eiki to gambler too. Although doubling her MP cost means she can only shoot twice (exactly 24 MP with 12 cost), I definitely needed the extra damage. I did finally get him; set him off with Eiki, then quickly switched in Flandre and gave Eiki another turn. Fortunately I had Aya out, as I actually wasn't expecting him to use his attack so soon.
It occurs to me that if the order of the bosses was switched a little, putting Magatama before Mirror, the bossrush would be far more difficult. Right now, Magatama is the last boss, so ending the fight with everyone at 1 HP doesn't hurt anything. But if you then had to fight Mirror, who would open by draining everyone's MP...
Oh well, just orbs left. I gave it a quick go with Yuyuko and Komachi, trying to land a quick Dth. I didn't check Reverse's actual ailment resistance in shadow-form, but I couldn't land anything after like 10 tries, even with Reisen out. Oh well. He's weak to dark and vulnerable to terror, so using paru on him should be fun.
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I've just fought Paralyzing Wasp's Shadow. And laughed on how literally Nitori took half of it's health with a single attack (damn Sanae's Miracle Fruit works like wonder). Then, Komachi and Satori rushed to kill it.
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Is the hardmode in LoT2 properly balanced?
I remember LoT1 being pretty unforgiving at times, but never unfair (except for a few bossfights like Eiki where everything just came down to luck) and I liked that.
The parts of LoT2 I already played a while ago seemed a lot easier in comparison, but I think the hardmode didn't exist back then.
Will going with hardmode on my first serious playthrough give the LoT1 experience or will it absolutely wreck me and is not recommended on a NG?
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Hard Mode isn't that hard really. You just can't overlevel/overpower yourself to beat bosses, which you don't need to do. All bosses in the main game are beatable within the challenge level.
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Hard Mode isn't that hard really. You just can't overlevel/overpower yourself to beat bosses, which you don't need to do. All bosses in the main game are beatable within the challenge level.
I don't even want to think about the post game on hard mode... That is meant to be over leveled for stats then you level yourself down.
I don't remember LoT1's post game, before the plus disk, being that hard except the V2 of the last boss. That is WAY harder than the V2 last boss for LoT2.
I was expecting the LoT2's V2 last boss to put up more of a challenge, only took 2 tries to beat him.
But overall the post game for LoT2 is harder I think. V2 Touhous were a joke in LoT1, and the only threatening extra bosses were the twins and of course the V2 last boss.
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Hard mode ends after you beat the final boss anyways, so there is no hard mode post game to worry about. It's kind of dumb, but oh well.
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But overall the post game for LoT2 is harder I think. V2 Touhous were a joke in LoT1, and the only threatening extra bosses were the twins and of course the V2 last boss.
It varies a lot by how much you level, since they each give you a giant grindwall and it's very unclear when to stop- especially since in LoT1 it's basically required to keep fighting on 20f until you get all the rare drops.
Anyway, about LoT2 difficulty; the game has actually had a lot of rebalancing since before hard mode was added. Bosses have been significantly rebal'd 2+ times since then (to be made harder and less cheese-able via speedkills), player roster has had some stat buffs, etc. That's not to say the game is killer hard or anything, but it's not a pushover... maybe. YMMV, by a lot, because heavy customization and different party members that are more unique than LoT1's cast (where you mostly just needed tank/buffheal/nuker and you were set). You can make the game your bitch if you play your cards well, but doing that is harder than it used to be, and postgame can feel kinda unfair at times :V (Even if you can just overlevel and destroy it)
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Hard mode ends after you beat the final boss anyways, so there is no hard mode post game to worry about. It's kind of dumb, but oh well.
Hard mode ends after the last boss? Does the boss rush at least have the hard mode enabled?
I assume the Foe on floor 16 has a hard mode as well? He isn't exactly post game, but is a higher level than the last boss.
It varies a lot by how much you level, since they each give you a giant grindwall and it's very unclear when to stop- especially since in LoT1 it's basically required to keep fighting on 20f until you get all the rare drops.
Anyway, about LoT2 difficulty; the game has actually had a lot of rebalancing since before hard mode was added. Bosses have been significantly rebal'd 2+ times since then (to be made harder and less cheese-able via speedkills), player roster has had some stat buffs, etc. That's not to say the game is killer hard or anything, but it's not a pushover... maybe. YMMV, by a lot, because heavy customization and different party members that are more unique than LoT1's cast (where you mostly just needed tank/buffheal/nuker and you were set). You can make the game your bitch if you play your cards well, but doing that is harder than it used to be, and postgame can feel kinda unfair at times :V (Even if you can just overlevel and destroy it)
I remember seeing a few tube videos of some hard modes, like the dark goddess, and they healed for more than I remember them doing in normal.
I bet they are still easier than the shadow versions at challenge level.
I cheated to get at least 1 of each of the rare drop items in LoT1, I didn't have the patients for that part. I think I was between level 100 and 120 for the LoT1 finaly boss, and I think I cleared everything before the the plus disk except the V2 final boss at the 120-140 range. I didn't have to level the individual stats as much as in LoT2 either. But that V2 final boss require something like level 200 I think. I didn't clear that until right around Eiki I think, since you needed to beat her to advance to the next floor.
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Hard mode ends after the last boss? Does the boss rush at least have the hard mode enabled?
I assume the Foe on floor 16 has a hard mode as well? He isn't exactly post game, but is a higher level than the last boss.
FOE's aren't really tied to the Hard Mode restrictions, but it's not advisable to fight him until around the time you're ready to fight the Final Boss.
You're free from the Hard Mode restrictions upon beating the Final Boss, but you can still be within challenge level for the Boss Rush if you want.
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Hmmm I don't know, it doesn't seem like Sanae's character to make skills cost zero. Maybe a skill with chance to cause her spell to be stronger. Or chance to cause her single target spells to become area spells. Or chance to recover MP for front line at the start of her action if she is in front line.
Sanae is also a VERY potent party member until Byakuren mostly obsoletes buffing characters. Miracle Fruits is amazing and her heal is already fine imo, especially if she miracle fruits herself (which is a good idea because spd/def/mnd) And she already recovers party TP at the end of battle sometimes, even without being in the front four. Recovering front line MP is Reimu's passive and Sanae doesn't even have a single target skill normally?
Yeah, but it makes more sense to me for the other suggestion, chance to have MP cost = 0.
Both her heal and buff are single target. I was mainly referring to those skills.
Hm...
The reason for me stating the "Ability to Create Miracles" as a "chance for the party to cast a spell for free" skill is threefold.
1. This skill makes it so that she'll be useful in a unique way while on the front line, as her "chance of restoring TP after the end of battle" skill does nothing for her or her allies during a fight. Since most of Sanae's skills are party oriented, having a skill that benefits the party like this would fit in with that in mind.
2. This skill ensures that she is still of use after the superhuman monk essentially makes all other buffer type almost obsolete, as a chance for 0 MP spellcasting is always useful in a fight, regardless of who's in the party.
3. As I recall clearly, Sanae is considered as a "person who struggles to stand out among a team of powerful supports", so giving her a unique way of support helps her out in that regard.
Since her heal and buff are fine as is, I suggest that her offensive spell cards be altered a bit, like this:
Moses Miracle
What stays the same: CLD element, uses MAG stat, good at piercing MND, MP cost.
What would be changed: Is now single target, leveling up spell ignores more MND, like how the Monk's nature attack spell can pierce more and more DEF.
Night with Bright Guest Stars
What stays the same: uses MAG stat, MP cost, targets all, doesn't miss.
What would be changed: Is now MYS element, gains special effect "weakens enemy buffs by (SLv * 10)%"(maxed out spell mimics old effect of Yuuka's "Beauty of Nature" spellcard).
Nine Syllable Stabs
MP Cost: 4
Post gauge use: 50%
Row Target, SPI element, uses MAG stat.
Special effects: Can inflict Shock, Paralysis, Heavy.
Leveling up spellcard increases damage and chance at inflicting said ailments.
Reason for changes: Moses Miracle is essentially made into a CLD element, MAG stat based version of Leaning Iron Mountain, which works well if you actually want to use her offensively(which works well if she also has Grand Incantation as a skill to buff her attack power first).
Night with Bright Guest Stars was granted the power to reduce the enemy's buffs because Yuuka's "Beauty of Nature" no longer uses that effect, so it's been freed up for use, and this spell had a special effect in the first game(which was rendered useless by the fact that EVA doesn't work back then), so granting it an effect would make sense here.
And Sanae had Nine Syllable Stabs in the first game, and remembering what said spell did in the Touhou canon games made me think that it could be used as a "binding" technique against enemies. The reason for it being a row targeting spell is to ensure that it's not overpowered(Sanae can't replace Cirno in Paralyzing enemies, for example), and the reason for it being SPI element is that so one of her spells can benefit from her "SPI attack spell boost" skill(I changed the element of Night with Bright Guest Stars to MYS to increase her options for elements, and for flavor, since starlight is still light, which means that it being MYS element makes more sense).
Finally, having one spell for damage and two others that have utility purposes helps her to stand out a bit more when she's not being a dedicated healer/buffer.
And I do hope I'm not annoying you guys with this stuff...
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Hm...
Since her heal and buff are fine as is, I suggest that her offensive spell cards be altered a bit, like this:
Moses Miracle
What stays the same: CLD element, uses MAG stat, good at piercing MND, MP cost.
What would be changed: Is now single target, leveling up spell ignores more MND, like how the Monk's nature attack spell can pierce more and more DEF.
Night with Bright Guest Stars
What stays the same: uses MAG stat, MP cost, targets all, doesn't miss.
What would be changed: Is now MYS element, gains special effect "weakens enemy buffs by (SLv * 10)%"(maxed out spell mimics old effect of Yuuka's "Beauty of Nature" spellcard).
Nine Syllable Stabs
MP Cost: 4
Post gauge use: 50%
Row Target, SPI element, uses MAG stat.
Special effects: Can inflict Shock, Paralysis, Heavy.
Leveling up spellcard increases damage and chance at inflicting said ailments.
Reason for changes: Moses Miracle is essentially made into a CLD element, MAG stat based version of Leaning Iron Mountain, which works well if you actually want to use her offensively(which works well if she also has Grand Incantation as a skill to buff her attack power first).
Night with Bright Guest Stars was granted the power to reduce the enemy's buffs because Yuuka's "Beauty of Nature" no longer uses that effect, so it's been freed up for use, and this spell had a special effect in the first game(which was rendered useless by the fact that EVA doesn't work back then), so granting it an effect would make sense here.
And Sanae had Nine Syllable Stabs in the first game, and remembering what said spell did in the Touhou canon games made me think that it could be used as a "binding" technique against enemies. The reason for it being a row targeting spell is to ensure that it's not overpowered(Sanae can't replace Cirno in Paralyzing enemies, for example), and the reason for it being SPI element is that so one of her spells can benefit from her "SPI attack spell boost" skill(I changed the element of Night with Bright Guest Stars to MYS to increase her options for elements, and for flavor, since starlight is still light, which means that it being MYS element makes more sense).
Finally, having one spell for damage and two others that have utility purposes helps her to stand out a bit more when she's not being a dedicated healer/buffer.
And I do hope I'm not annoying you guys with this stuff...
It isn't really annoying, it's nice to see theory'ing.
Anyway, I see no need for 'Night with Bright Stars' to be Mystic considering that the type of character Sanae is. A living god/human shrine maiden. Mystic element is more reserved for magicians, youkai, and things in between, the 'magic' element. And divination and magic are not the same. Everything Sanae does revolves around manipulating miracles, wind, nature and water, nothing really 'mystical'. So even though a mystic attack would create more diversity within her moveset, it wouldn't really fit her theme. Not saying mystic would be entirely contrary. The only other elemental that could fit Sanae are cold and dark attacks. Dark because Sanae can indirectly use the Mishaguji through Suwako, which are curse gods. (Which makes wonder why Suwako has no dark attacks. I know the Mishaguji are also agricultural gods, but they're all about curses ya know)
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Do the elemental skills actually work?
I'm trying to cheese Culex (since I can't fathom any other way to fight him) by opening with Leveatein. It worked well, but then I remembered that Mokou should be able to raise its damage significantly. Marisa's skill on the wiki says 20% * SLv, and I assume that they all do function the same.
But...
Without Mokou: http://i.imgur.com/NIt6GD2.png
With Mokou: http://i.imgur.com/CCCZZzW.png
That's about 10% less damage. Which is within the natural damage variance, but that just makes me think this skill isn't doing anything. Has anyone seen them actually work?
ok I just remembered that Alice is a strategist, and therefore raises all damage by 10%.
And I tried the flamelong sword and it didn't seem to raise damage at all. It also lowered her mag, so I can't tell if that just counteracted it.
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So I know a guy who's currently playing LoT2, and recently managed to beat Mokou after what appears to be forever, and the game's, to paraphrase, draining his soul. Is there a way to prevent that from happening, without a)preemptively removing his soul, or b)stopping to play the game?
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Uhm. Are you asking us how to prevent him from not liking the game? If he really just doesn't enjoy the game there's not much reason to keep playing.
As for Mokou's passive not working, huh. I tested it just now using 1F enemies and I definitely got a 40% damage boost. I was using Mokou's attack so I can't quite say it works for the whole line but it should? Okay nevermind, I just tested it with Flan; there was big damage variance (I could get 12~16m (1.6?) without blazing and 16~20+m with, based on just a couple battles, small testing sample) but it worked.
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I use Sanae to get Byakuren to 100% stats in 2 turns, so I don't have to wait, and made Sanae a magician.
The magic circuit also decays slower with a Strategist on the field, so it is a very nice synergy.
As for Mr Crystals, here is what I did.
I used bulky characters at first, since so much damage is going out, and I used Yuyuko to try to kill instantly kill the wind crystal with death. 2 turns at most.
I used Maribel to Heal and give +24% extra damage for characters next attacks as well, this is an extremely great spell.
After that I would focus on the Earth Crystal with Suika, only took 3 attacks to kill with the wind attack.
I would use Leveatein after that, or after 2 of Suika's attacks, to kill the water crystal and leave the fire up while I pew pew on Mr. Crystals.
I would kill the Fire Crystal Last. Shredder would get annoying leaving the water crystal up so long, but it was easier to manage for me.
Try Hina out to Mass debuff, just watch out for that Dark Star attack that takes the debuffs away on Mr. Crystals. And it does a long of damage.
I had 3 of those Flame Swords on Flan, it worked well for me.
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As for Mokou's passive not working, huh. I tested it just now using 1F enemies and I definitely got a 40% damage boost. I was using Mokou's attack so I can't quite say it works for the whole line but it should? Okay nevermind, I just tested it with Flan; there was big damage variance (I could get 12~16m (1.6?) without blazing and 16~20+m with, based on just a couple battles, small testing sample) but it worked.
Hmm, strange. I certainly didn't have a large sample size, but it really didn't seem to do any good at all. Same with the flame sword, although I only had the one. The strategist bonus "probably" worked. It sure would be nice if someone with more time and knowledge of assembly than me could figure out the damage formula, at least to NOP that annoying variance.
In related news, I did kill him. Two shots of Flandre took out everyone but guardian himself and the fire crystal. Yuuka was more than enough to clean up the rest. Aya really shouldn't have that turn spell, it's way too powerful on a speedster like her.
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In related news, I did kill him. Two shots of Flandre took out everyone but guardian himself and the fire crystal. Yuuka was more than enough to clean up the rest. Aya really shouldn't have that turn spell, it's way too powerful on a speedster like her.
You're overestimating Aya. Divine Grandson's Advent isn't too powerful on her, considering that it leaves her at 4000 ATB. This really makes you have to think before you use the move because if you do it at the wrong time (and considering how fast these bosses can be), you would end up getting completely wiped. It was OP when it left her at 6000 ATB (you could just literally spam it with no consequence) but now you can't do that.
EDIT
The Japanese Wiki has updated the character parameters to 1.203 now. Now it lists Momiji with the highest defense growth, etc.
http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/99.html
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You're overestimating Aya. Divine Grandson's Advent isn't too powerful on her, considering that it leaves her at 4000 ATB. This really makes you have to think before you use the move because if you do it at the wrong time (and considering how fast these bosses can be), you would end up getting completely wiped. It was OP when it left her at 6000 ATB (you could just literally spam it with no consequence) but now you can't do that.
I disagree. As evidenced by that fight.
Regardless of the post-use delay, proper timing lets you use a strong nuke twice. Flandre hit 10k, used leveatein, then Aya hit 10k and let Flandre fire again. That alone is pretty broken, honestly - with LoT1's lev, it set everyone's gauge so low that Flandre would outspeed everyone anyway and get her next turn naturally. LoT2 drains over 2400 ATB, and the debuffs are trivial. For a speedster like Aya, that's barely anything. If it was at least Kaguya like in LoT1, it'd take longer to recover that loss (which should also be larger, but that's another issue).
4000 postuse isn't that bad either. Honestly I'd say it should be lower, at least at low levels. Like 0 at slv1 and 4000 at slv5.
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I disagree. As evidenced by that fight.
Regardless of the post-use delay, proper timing lets you use a strong nuke twice. Flandre hit 10k, used leveatein, then Aya hit 10k and let Flandre fire again. That alone is pretty broken, honestly - with LoT1's lev, it set everyone's gauge so low that Flandre would outspeed everyone anyway and get her next turn naturally. LoT2 drains over 2400 ATB, and the debuffs are trivial. For a speedster like Aya, that's barely anything. If it was at least Kaguya like in LoT1, it'd take longer to recover that loss (which should also be larger, but that's another issue).
4000 postuse isn't that bad either. Honestly I'd say it should be lower, at least at low levels. Like 0 at slv1 and 4000 at slv5.
You kind of restated my point. You need proper timing. Also, The key to problem you brought up isn't exactly Aya, it's Flandre. She just does ridiculous amounts of damage. (And the whole highest atk growth really urks me)
I never played LoT1, so I don't know exactly what you're speaking of. Pure speed Aya is pretty strong yeah, and is broken with Diva subclass. Otherwise, Aya is strong but not OP. 4000 ATB postuse is good enough, because even if you use her post speed you will likely still run into bosses that are very fast (i.e. Wasps, Magatama after 50% HP), even then, you have to think about it. Not sure how much money you're putting into speed.
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It isn't really annoying, it's nice to see theory'ing.
Anyway, I see no need for 'Night with Bright Stars' to be Mystic considering that the type of character Sanae is. A living god/human shrine maiden. Mystic element is more reserved for magicians, youkai, and things in between, the 'magic' element. And divination and magic are not the same. Everything Sanae does revolves around manipulating miracles, wind, nature and water, nothing really 'mystical'. So even though a mystic attack would create more diversity within her moveset, it wouldn't really fit her theme. Not saying mystic would be entirely contrary. The only other elemental that could fit Sanae are cold and dark attacks. Dark because Sanae can indirectly use the Mishaguji through Suwako, which are curse gods. (Which makes wonder why Suwako has no dark attacks. I know the Mishaguji are also agricultural gods, but they're all about curses ya know)
Personally, I had always equated her starlight spells and skills as such, but if being SPI elemental sounds better, then I have no problem with that, since that would mean that said spell can benefit from her "SPI attack boost" skill. (I kind of don't remember if said spell was SPI or MYS element in the first game, so I ran the spell with the thought that maybe it was MYS in the first game? If I'm wrong, please correct me.)
Also, I think that you might be right on Suwako and her Mishaguji-sama spellcard, though. My thought is that since it's NTR element at present, it can be buffed by her "NTR attack boost" skill.
Personally, I would have "Croaking Frog is Eaten by Snake" spellcard come back as her NTR nuke, turn the current NTR nuke into a all targeting, MAG based attack that targets defense, and set "Mishaguji-sama" as a strong composite DRK element move that can deal debuffs on ATK, DEF, MAG, and MND(Being composite makes it strong regardless of her build, although high DEF and MND combined will nerf it horribly, even if it was set to ignore half of all enemy DEF and MND.)
Back on Sanae, what do you think of the rest of the changes to the spellcards(including the special effect of Night with Bright Guest Stars)?
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@ Kirin no Sora
Pretty reasonable I would say. I really like Nine syllable stabs. A binding technique, very suited for a shrine maiden that exterminates youkai. (ZETTAI YURUSANAE)
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Uhm. Are you asking us how to prevent him from not liking the game? If he really just doesn't enjoy the game there's not much reason to keep playing.
No, I want it to not literally drain his soul. Maybe he's playing in an abandonned graveyard or something, I don't really know.
That said, I started a new game in the meantime. I think the lampreys are the biggest difficulty spike so far.
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My god Yuuka was hard. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/c64oum7uleslz23/Screenshot%202014-10-26%2023.26.27.png?dl=0) I mean, I didn't exactly have the best team since stat distribution and teambuilding is decidedly hard for me, but why was she easier than Yuyuko, who I beat 4 levels below the challenge level.
Beauty of Gensokyo is cheating. Getting double calming scent and deranging aroma is cheating. The damage rush at the end is cheating (though Yuugi, Parsee and Kogasa made short work of that). I had to break the challenge level and beat her 7 levels above.
Team so far:
Healer Komachi
Herbalist Wriggle
Magician Satori
Magician Kanako
Gambler Kogasa
Enchanter Sanae
Warrior Yuugi
Strategist Keine
Monk Parsee
Kaguya (dropped for Yuuka)
Yuyuko
Hina
Some of these are probably terrible choices for subclasses, but I'm just going with what works.
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My god Yuuka was hard. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/c64oum7uleslz23/Screenshot%202014-10-26%2023.26.27.png?dl=0) I mean, I didn't exactly have the best team since stat distribution and teambuilding is decidedly hard for me, but why was she easier than Yuyuko, who I beat 4 levels below the challenge level.
Beauty of Gensokyo is cheating. Getting double calming scent and deranging aroma is cheating. The damage rush at the end is cheating (though Yuugi, Parsee and Kogasa made short work of that). I had to break the challenge level and beat her 7 levels above.
Team so far:
Healer Komachi
Herbalist Wriggle
Magician Satori
Magician Kanako
Gambler Kogasa
Enchanter Sanae
Warrior Yuugi
Strategist Keine
Monk Parsee
Kaguya (dropped for Yuuka)
Yuyuko
Hina
Some of these are probably terrible choices for subclasses, but I'm just going with what works.
Don't see why you're going Magician Satori and Kanako. Those are weird choices. And Monk Parsee is also a weird choice, at least to me. Actually, I don't know what subclass to pick for Parsee really. Everything else seems right to me.
And yeah, Yuuka was hard for me too. I was 8 levels above challenge and she would beat me. And yeah, Calming Scent is a very dumb move imo. Whenever Yuuka would get multiple calming scents I would just restart the game. I really hate that move.
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Currently on 6F and I just got my first Stone of Awakening.
Any advice on who to use this one? I'm seriously unsure.
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Currently on 6F and I just got my first Stone of Awakening.
Any advice on who to use this one? I'm seriously unsure.
This early in the game, subclasses are mostly just good on characters who don't have good things to spend their points on already, since you're pretty strapped for skill points. (That, and people who could seriously use one of the classes' active skills, like if you wanted to give a support character healing powers)
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Anyone know where to get the Genji Glove?
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You craft it.
Requires a Dragon Mane though, it's rather rare but you get one early in one of the extra areas once you've beaten enough Shadows.
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I forgot just how frustrating Alice was to fight.
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I forgot just how frustrating Alice was to fight.
I've reached this fight to. I almost had her once, but that was just because Trip Wire didnt kill me.
Seriously. I either lost most of my party members to Trip Wire, or they miraculously survived and the fight continued.
Anyway, 8F random encounters are so damn hard to kill... why is that ? Argh.
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I've reached this fight to. I almost had her once, but that was just because Trip Wire didnt kill me.
Seriously. I either lost most of my party members to Trip Wire, or they miraculously survived and the fight continued.
Anyway, 8F random encounters are so damn hard to kill... why is that ? Argh.
My guess would be Flower Divers continuously buffing their parties to absurd levels. 8F frequently has two of them at once, and the speed-buff feedback loop is horrifying.
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My guess would be Flower Divers continuously buffing their parties to absurd levels. 8F frequently has two of them at once, and the speed-buff feedback loop is horrifying.
Even in encounters without flower divers they just murder my party members before I can get them to act. I was considering changing my current party but I have absolutely no idea what to change it to, really :/
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Does anyone know the width/heights of the SS/S.pngs for LoT2? I decided to make a charagraph for fun, with Touhou Pocket Wars Portraits. Still need Wriggle/Maribel/Renko images in the style, but oh well.
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Even in encounters without flower divers they just murder my party members before I can get them to act. I was considering changing my current party but I have absolutely no idea what to change it to, really :/
Try using faster characters like Chen and Cirno, also up your speed stats.
I believe that speed is the best overall stat to increase with money, unless the character is very slow.
I used Orin for several floors when I got her since should could attack multiple times, and fire element attacks were nice for the Jungle floors.
They really need to fix the stats spells that don't reset the time bar, it can get insanely stupid if they cast it 3+ times in a row.
I forgot just how frustrating Alice was to fight.
I had a harder time with her individual doll fights... Those things are too freaking fast.
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Is Ran good at clearing mobs late game? That's something I've always wondered.
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After what felt like an eternity, I have finally defeated Alice!
... Now, is she any good? I haven't had much success with her in the first game, but considering Minoriko is now practically my most valued character while in the first game I barely even used her...
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One of her main selling points is her Tripwire, which is extremely effective against bosses weak to HVY and debuffs.
Her base MAG isn't THAT good compared to other dedicated nukers, but it's still very viable, nonetheless. After inflicting HVY, her offensive power increases quite a bit with Final Blow.
Don't forget about MAlice Cannon (buffs her MAG) and Doll Guard (Very high evade).
She can target both defenses with her attacks as well, though I usually use her for her single-target FIR nuke (Artful Sacrifice).
I'm sad as to how there are no physical MYS attacks. There's a magical PHY attack, why can't there be a physical MYS attack :<
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Does anyone know the width/heights of the SS/S.pngs for LoT2? I decided to make a charagraph for fun, with Touhou Pocket Wars Portraits. Still need Wriggle/Maribel/Renko images in the style, but oh well.
You can see for yourself here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/o4xjbbkb7kkhctg/LoT2+CharaGraph.rar). They're not very consistent though so...
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You can see for yourself here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/o4xjbbkb7kkhctg/LoT2+CharaGraph.rar). They're not very consistent though so...
Ah, thank you.
On a side note, was Yuuka supposed to be able to break Yukari this easily? One buff with Sanae and stick her in 4th slot, spam Flower shot and that was it. Extra Attack + Encounter with a strong foe is kind of a great way to keep selfbuffed.
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Ah, thank you.
On a side note, was Yuuka supposed to be able to break Yukari this easily? One buff with Sanae and stick her in 4th slot, spam Flower shot and that was it. Extra Attack + Encounter with a strong foe is kind of a great way to keep selfbuffed.
Actually did the same thing. Yukari is just really weak to nature.
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Just goes to show that Yuuka is clearly superiour to Yukari. :>
She really trivializes the fight though but all in all Yukari is one of the easier bosses.
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Anyone know where the last tome of awakening post game is?
EDIT
I got them, but I'm still missing a tome. I musta missed one during main game.
Anyone know all the locations of the stone of awakenings main game?
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Ah, thank you.
On a side note, was Yuuka supposed to be able to break Yukari this easily? One buff with Sanae and stick her in 4th slot, spam Flower shot and that was it. Extra Attack + Encounter with a strong foe is kind of a great way to keep selfbuffed.
Yeah pretty sure she is supposed to do that. Anything weak to nature- or even neutral to it- and not absolutely tanked on Mind is begging for Yuuka to put it in the camel clutch, break its back, and make it humble. Yukari is just unfortunate enough to be rather weak to nature after Yuuka becomes available. As you have observed, Extra Attack chaining Encounter with a Strong Foe is pretty stupid, especially when stacked with all other sorts of damage buffs- Gambler barely even dents her Flower Shot spam gameplan with how cheap the spell is.
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I was able to find the final tome. Turns out I forgot one on the 13th floor. Weird because I know for certain I dropped down to that area. Maybe something had happened and I forgot to save the data and didn't revisit the area.
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God! The poisoning wasp's Shadow! I've barely beat it. My team is a bit weak at the moment.
Kogasa, Parsee and Flan (wasn't targeted at all...) survived...
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I forgot just how frustrating Alice was to fight.
We are talking about labyrinth 2 right? I didn't remember Alice being that hard.
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We are talking about labyrinth 2 right? I didn't remember Alice being that hard.
The only thing annoying about LoT2's Alice fight is she abuses Trip Wire a lot at times and that's about it better than LoT1's fight with Alice because of those dolls.
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Not to be a bother, but unless anyone has an objection to it, I would like to start a new thread for this stuff now...
I hope there's no rule for against doing this early...
Edit: I have set up a new thread for this now. I hope no one kills me for this...
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I kill you :V