Author Topic: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」 announced  (Read 295068 times)

Also, releases do NOT make you invincible against enemies

Spring does

HistoryoftheMoon

Speaking of which, Komano Aunn's patters are familiar. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Her final spell is very Parsee-ish (more SA vibes), and her curvy laser spell could be really any curvy laser spell (Merlin, Shou, Junko.)

ふねん1

  • Scientific editor
  • If you're alive, you can always keep moving.
Aunn's final is like the opposite of Parsee's doppelg?nger spell since you have to shoot the clone down first rather than ignore it. Also I guess her nons could be similar to Orin's in that they focus on lanes, but Aunn's overlap in different ways, which sets hers apart in that sense.
"Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of thinking." - Carl Sagan

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Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
I'd say it's likely the Stage 4 boss will have to do with a forest, since the first three bosses have to do with their setting. I don't recall anything about anything besides Marisa, Alice, and some mushrooms living in the Forest of Magic, though. Any mushroom Youkai? Then again, there was never anything said about a Komainu at the shrine.

Canon version of Kinoko Masha confirmed?
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Onion

  • Classic era Marisa-like entity
  • Failing at Touhou since 2000-something
Canon version of Kinoko Masha confirmed?

If a suspiciously similar youkai appears, I am going to have a seizure.
I don't hate Masha, and I don't hate the idea of ZUN borrowing from the fandom (a small part of me wishes he did). I don't hate anything. It would just be really shocking. KimikoMuffin would get more mail. Fanart would flip. The Yama's space heater would break.
Please wait warmly. Girls are intentionally leaving this space blank.

Since everybody has these: 1CC PoDD ez, 1CC(?) EoSD ez, PD LoLK, something something HM ULiL

Kirin no Sora

  • Wanderer of Gensokyo
  • I have returned from the nothingness once more...
The Yama's space heater would break.

Honestly, I don't think that would break it at all.

Rin Satsuki appearing in this game for whatever reason, however, would destroy the heater, the room, the building, and the area that it's in, forcing the Yama and co. to stay at Yuyuko's for a bit while Yukari complains to Reimu about the whole blasted thing...

I'm aware that the chance of Rin Satsuki appearing is virtually nil, but I can dream, can't I? *shrugs*
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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Has ZUN ever at any time "borrowed from the fandom", or do i see this hope with every new game because wishful thinking?

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

I believe I read that he used the name Daiyousei, the name given to the Stage 2 midboss of EoSD by the fans.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
I believe I read that he used the name Daiyousei, the name given to the Stage 2 midboss of EoSD by the fans.

The wiki on Daiyousei casts some doubt on this idea, but it's still probably the closest to ZUN borrowing from fandom that there is.

I just see people speculating on "will ZUN adopt this fanmade character and use it in a game?" as if it were an actual possibility and it always puzzles me a little, like, is this for real or kind of half-humorous "what if?" stuff? Because I honestly can't tell sometimes. Like when people get angry that 2hu [X] absolutely DESERVED to be in this game and was robbed again or something. I can never fully believe people are serious about it, but they sound serious enough.

But hey, Touhou brings out some strong responses in people, and it's all part of the fun.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Here's a theory for ya:

Characters under possession in 15.5 have a purple aura around them.



Lily white also has one in 16. Coincidence? Probably.

~Shin Kuroi~

  • Sleepy Cat
  • fuwaaa... sleepy...
what if it's the big bad or an associate of the big bad using perfect possession to indirectly attack the player
yawn...

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.


After the Forest of Magic, player will meet the stage boss, Alice. From there it's on up Mount Youkai to tangle with a new tengu. Final boss is Lord Tenma, behind Kanako's Shrine. It was Kanako's idea all along. Extra Boss is Eternity, only as a caterpillar this time. You fight here in gas station parking lot outside of Elizabeth, New Jersey. You heard it here first.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

GenericArrangements

  • The Monthly Ghost of the Art Atelier
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It was Kanako's idea all along.
FRICK.

Extra Boss is Eternity, only as a caterpillar this time. You fight here in gas station parking lot outside of Elizabeth, New Jersey. You heard it here first.
I love this idea and I hope it will be canon.
Please read my posts as if I'm not taking them too seriously.

i did a lunatic 1cc of MoF once and i'm happy enough with just that

Flandre5carlet

  • Sister of the Devil
  • "So all I have to do is 'kyuu', and..."
    • flan.moe
I believe I read that he used the name Daiyousei, the name given to the Stage 2 midboss of EoSD by the fans.

Wasn't Koakuma also a name that was given by the fandom and that ZUN was seen/heard using? I seem to remember something like that.

CyberAngel

  • Retired
ZUN called Big Fairy a big fairy and Little Devil a little devil. Shocking!

Flandre5carlet

  • Sister of the Devil
  • "So all I have to do is 'kyuu', and..."
    • flan.moe
ZUN called Big Fairy a big fairy and Little Devil a little devil. Shocking!
Sarcasm aside, that might be so, but they are both the names given to them/commonly used by the fanbase and that he could easily not use. "Unnamed fairy" "Stage 2 midboss" "Unnamed demon"...

GenericArrangements

  • The Monthly Ghost of the Art Atelier
  • i do the music thing (!?)
I remember hearing something about ZUN using those names mainly as identifiers. It's not like they're prominent characters, so I don't think he would have many reasons to talk about them anyway.
Please read my posts as if I'm not taking them too seriously.

i did a lunatic 1cc of MoF once and i'm happy enough with just that

cuc

  • *
  • Probably won't respond 'til this mess is sorted o?
Wasn't Koakuma also a name that was given by the fandom and that ZUN was seen/heard using? I seem to remember something like that.
Neither. Both Daiyousei and Koakuma were from ZUN in a post on his personal message board.
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Flandre5carlet

  • Sister of the Devil
  • "So all I have to do is 'kyuu', and..."
    • flan.moe
Neither. Both Daiyousei and Koakuma were from ZUN in a post on his personal message board.
I stand corrected!

Also to anyone speculating Stage 4 will be the magic forest.



yes.

Alice confirmed for Stage 4 boss.

Drake

  • *
Characters under possession in 15.5 have a purple aura around them.



Lily white also has one in 16. Coincidence? Probably.
Ever since 12.5 he decided every character should have their own color aura, so :U


Even times when people claim ZUN does things because of the fandom it falls a little flat. The fact that Cirno got a game as 12.8 was one of them, but really that was more like the amalgamation of her ending up in PoFV, ZUN's direction on the role of fairies in Gensokyo, then being included in Sangetsusei and eventually the declaration of war idea, which is probably when he started thinking about it as a game idea (the game coming out about a year and a half after the relevant manga parts). Or perhaps he wrote it the special chapter because of the idea. Point being that ZUN liking a character and the fandom liking the character can be parallel while still not being all that related.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Onion

  • Classic era Marisa-like entity
  • Failing at Touhou since 2000-something
Alice confirmed for Stage 4 boss.

Incoming remix of Plastic Mind.
Please wait warmly. Girls are intentionally leaving this space blank.

Since everybody has these: 1CC PoDD ez, 1CC(?) EoSD ez, PD LoLK, something something HM ULiL

~Shin Kuroi~

  • Sleepy Cat
  • fuwaaa... sleepy...
is it plausible that, if it isn't alice due tew either not being present or wanting no part of it, that the player characters fight each other? after all, all four of them are going towards the same area, so they're bound for some type of meetup, right?

yawn...

cuc

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  • Probably won't respond 'til this mess is sorted o?
The fact that Cirno got a game as 12.8 was one of them, but really that was more like the amalgamation of her ending up in PoFV, ZUN's direction on the role of fairies in Gensokyo, then being included in Sangetsusei and eventually the declaration of war idea, which is probably when he started thinking about it as a game idea (the game coming out about a year and a half after the relevant manga parts). Or perhaps he wrote it the special chapter because of the idea. Point being that ZUN liking a character and the fandom liking the character can be parallel while still not being all that related.
Speaking of that, what do you think of mauve's suggestion that SWR might have been 10.8 based on the 10800 port? If true, what would this theoretical 10.5 be? One pecularity of ZUN is he never wastes stuff, so we likely have already seen it in some form.

Tasofro could have also wanted to avoid the port 10500, but it doesn't seem to be a special number.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 04:17:28 AM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Drake

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I think it's worth considering at least? The IaMP caster going with 7500 sounds deliberate and along the lines of being close enough to the common 8000 port, and 10800 is out there enough that it makes sense for that to be the connection. If there were another data point (like if HM did it too, etc) it would be a lot stronger. If you're looking for my thoughts...

Being considered for 10.8 instead of .3 (as Soku was) suggests maybe that it was intended to be released between the so-called 10.5 and 11, meaning that ZUN had both in his pocket when Tasofro began. However, the development train of 10 -> 10.5 ->11 had no actual gaps -- Mountain of Faith released in August 2007, alongside Scarlet Weather Rhapsody's first demo, which itself was released fully in May 2008, alongside Subterranean Animism's trial, which itself released fully a few months later.

Taking this into consideration, note that by the time of SWR's first demo it was already numbered 10.5. This means that in one scenario for this theory, ZUN would have had to be planning/developing for 10.5 while developing MoF, and then realizing that he wouldn't be able to finish MoF as well as that game before Tasofro opened with SWR, allowing them to take 10.5 and shelving his game for later. Except, this was the golden period where SA would come out the next year, and in the meantime we had ZUN working on SSiB every month, SaBND every month, and CiLR every three months. There's no way he was bothering with such a game at this point, which makes it hard to believe that he might have been planning for it so far in advance and not doing anything with it until way later.

Another flawed idea is that rather than the 10.5 game having to be shelved for later, it was MoF that was pushed back, and it was the other game that was made first: Shoot the Bullet. This would make StB 9.5 instead of 10.5, giving Tasofro the number. But StB was out at the end of 2005 and was originally planned for that Summer alongside BAiJR and PoFV, which makes it wayyyy too early (and still too tightly packed) to be possible to have MoF also in hand. Besides that, this is when ZUN had to take a break from doujin activities for a while.

Rather, we know that MoF was in the planning phases in late 2006. It's in this post that ZUN says he's coming back to Touhou after his break, and gives us one of the first examples of him saying that he really doesn't like going back to old work (this being the reason StB didn't get its planned expansion or PoFV getting more patches, even after his break). He more or less says that during his break he eventually got carried away with new ideas that ended up spiraling into a new work; this would become Touhou 10. He then says it would probably be released next Summer, which it was.

So like, we have a pretty solid mental map of ZUN here. I don't see any immediate room for such a game, so if anything it would have really had to be morphed into something way down the line. Even still, you could make the simple argument that Tasofro just wanted to keep the numbering open just in case ZUN wanted to make a new side game, but then ended up not needing to. I suppose that's possible, but all the interesting meaning is lost in that case.


That aside, to support the subject of ZUN never wasting stuff, there's this nugget:
Quote from: The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers
JS: Have you ever started a Touhou game and didn?t finish it? Are there unreleased Touhou?
ZUN: Because I?m making them on my own, obviously I?m not really beholden to other people. So the only time it happens is when I play it and then I go, ?Oh, this isn?t much fun.? So I?ve had games in the series, or I?ve had times, where I?ve gone back and made changes. That happens and it?s a process of improvement. I don?t think I?ve ever cancelled a Touhou game. Every Touhou game that I?ve set out to make has been released or come out.
So this would also support that a theoretical 10.5, if it ever existed, would have later made it as a different game.



oops i made a big history dump

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Drake

  • *
Oops while researching things I broke the mystery.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070527084336/http://www.tasofro.net:80/diary/index.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20070826105835/http://www.tasofro.net:80/diary/index.html

Scarlet Weather Rhapsody was considered Touhou 9.8 at the time of the Reitaisai 4 exhibition play. By the time the C72 demo rolled around it was pushed to 10.5 for quote "secret reasons". Somehow I didn't know this, but ok. I think it can safely be said that it wasn't intended to be 10.8.

If you want to stretch, maybe the port was 9800 at first and then they changed it but only the 9 to 10, and they forgot the 5 part lol
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 07:27:53 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

cuc

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  • Probably won't respond 'til this mess is sorted o?
Ow, sorry for making you go to such trouble. I'd crunched the numbers myself, and decided it's quite impossible. The timeframe was only about 2 months, and they probably weren't even working on the netcode during the period (the C72 trial has no netplay).
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

CyberAngel

  • Retired
is it plausible that, if it isn't alice due tew either not being present or wanting no part of it, that the player characters fight each other? after all, all four of them are going towards the same area, so they're bound for some type of meetup, right?

All characters always follow the same path in all games, and the only time when they fought among each other was when some were (rightfully) suspected of causing an incident themselves.

That aside, as much as I'd be happy to see Alice again myself, thinking that she'd be the boss is a very naive way of thinking. The latter parts of the games have always been completely unpredictable, so such an easy option is never the one to happen. (Remember how people hoped to fight Watatsukis in LoLK?)

i still think it's possible 10.8 was the working version

at the very least, they knew they had to bump it to 10.x and weren't sure what ZUN was going to do numberwise otherwise

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
So I'm using Aya/Spring for my practice runs now. Just a quick question: how do you increase the PIV in this game? I've noticed that ending non-spells and spells early with a Season seems to do it. What else helps in increasing the PIV here?

Pardon my ignorance; I'm more accustomed to playing for survival than score.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."