Author Topic: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」 announced  (Read 297535 times)

As someone who play video games as an enjoyment, I am quite ashamed to find that there are morons who play games not to enjoy but to look cool.

Let's be honest though, this is by no means unique to the touhou series.

Chill Observer

  • Aimless fanatic
  • haHAA
As someone who play video games as an enjoyment, I am quite ashamed to find that there are morons who play games not to enjoy but to look cool.
Can you provide us some examples?

People can have fun going after goals, it's not like "looking cool" is the only thing on players' minds. I sure as hell don't do that, I only play whatever I enjoy.

As a side note, I've tried learning demo scoring, Eternity Larva ramming into me when I do releases has got to be the most annoying thing ever, I swear.
Retired Touhou player. Not involved with anything Touhou anymore.

Aeteas

  • Nonsensical
Some people say Spring is useless, but it's actually pretty good at canceling stage portions. On Stage 3 Lunatic, there's a couple spots where a 6 option release can get back 4 or 5 options. What's even better is the post-midboss section, the part with four big fairies shooting bullet lines. It's possible to go in with 6 options and wait for the bullets to build up on screen. I managed to get a cancel so huge that the amount of PIV and season items appearing on screen crashed the game. Oops.

Spring is secretly the most broken season.

A lot of people elsewhere seem to assume that the final game will be this spammy. I think it's worth keeping in mind that the Reitaisai trial version was rushed. The season system will likely be tweaked before release.

The web trial version (which will be released shortly before Comiket) should give us a better idea of what the final game will actually be like.

 

Lebon14

  • 椛ちゃん、助けてぇぇぇぇぇ!
So, I was thinking about this... I was thinking about this incident and what happened in VFiS Chapter 6. It's a stretch but it could be loosely connected.

Spoilers:
Spoiler:
It's flower-viewing time! However, the fairies notice that the cherry-blossoms haven't bloomed AT ALL (Also, Sunny was totally oblivious to the issue until her comrades point it out to her). So, the 3 mischivious fairies (+ Clownpiece) decide to do something about it. So, Star suggests the other fairies to enact the "Flower Blooming Old-Man". By the end of the story, Marisa joins in too. At the end, All the cherry trees around the Hakurei are blooming splendidly.

Other comments:
Spoiler:
The fairies actually argue that Clownpiece might be actually be the reason why nothing bloomed or that the fairies are getting weaker. And, to be honest, we are talking about "fairies theories" here. So, it might just be the incident slowly starting up. Or maybe forcing the bloom kickstarted it?

Regardless, we'll only know for sure this summer. My mind's always making such scenarios. I can't help it. :-P

P.S Go read that specific chapter of VFiS. It's so cute. <3

The scoring system is pretty cool, nothing cooler than spinning around cute 2hus at high speeds.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
It isn't uncommon for ZUN to make larger changes to earlier stages in full releases, right? Or is it unrealistic to be expecting those issues that high level players have, such as the broken scoring system, to be fixed?
Stuff that feels outright abusable is often tweaked. SanaeB's bomb in UFO and MarisaB's bomb in DDC were both things people were like "uhhhh holy crap" and they were toned down. Of course, MarisaB was still abusable, but the tweak did help a lot (it used to convert bullets into items in spellcards, too)

So we can expect Season to be tweaked. But like MariB in DDC, I expect it to still end up really powerful. Just, not quite as bad? At the least I expect a fall nerf, because that's bonkers. Probably just cut down the duration on early level releases. If that happens, the rest of the seasons... they're strong but it's probably a more intended level of strong.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

From what I have seen the most complaints come from the high level players, with the broken scoring system, *somewhat* extremely abusable releases and certain safespots, people going so far and telling ZUN to throw the towel, geez.
The more casual side seems to enjoy it as always, with this thread being in the rather mixed to positive side.
I disagree about the scoring thing. Maybe I'm just not a "high level player", but this game is one of, like, 3 where I'm actually enjoying trying to get a high score.

 My biggest complaint is that some of the patterns feel a bit generic, most specifically ones on the stage 2 boss. Other than that this game is extremely enjoyable, though it does feel a bit rushed in places.
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

ふねん1

  • Scientific editor
  • If you're alive, you can always keep moving.
As much as I would like to believe that releases will get toned down to more reasonable levels, I have a past experience that stops me from being completely sold on that. Back when it first came out, I dabbled with scoring in the TD demo, and I noticed how much of the game, especially the bosses, ended up being bomb+Trance spam, severely reducing the amount of dodging needed when playing through the game (sound familiar?). Given how the system worked, I had a strong sense that the rest of the game would end up the same way, with perhaps the only things that could prevent that being the way the life fragment counter scaled limiting the lives you could use for said spam (it was 10, 15, 20, etc. instead of 8, 10, 12, 15, etc.) or bosses being tweaked to cough up fewer/no spirits when damaged. Neither of those things happened in the full release, and in fact lives were made easier to get as previously described, and the full game turned out to be entirely bomb+Trance spam, even with the weaker shots. While releases in HSiFS are seemingly a more prominent issue than Trances, there's still a chance not much will be changed. Predicting the future is a tricky thing lol. I'm pretty much entirely in "wait and see" mode at this point.

And just putting this out there, high-level players are totally capable of enjoying the non-gameplay aspects of Touhou as well, even if you don't see them talking about it to the same degree that, say, I did earlier.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 05:08:11 PM by ふねん1 »
"Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of thinking." - Carl Sagan

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CyberAngel

  • Retired
I find that the music grows a bit on me after some time, even though I did feel it was a bit generic at first. So I suggest anyone doubting it give it some time.

people play and get involved in games for lots of different reasons, it's entirely justifiable if they feel that a game doesn't live up to their particular tastes or interests or if they're interested in portions of it less related to that nebulous thing known as 'gameplay'

as long as people aren't getting mad at others for enjoying things that they don't, it's all good

Plubio

  • 宇宙少年
    • Suzunaan
as long as people aren't getting mad at others for enjoying things that they don't, it's all good

Problem is this happens all the time.
Touhou is getting some "Fire Emblem" vibes and it's kinda annoying somehow. Western fanbase above all.

Long time ago I decided to ignore this part of the fandom but sometimes I just think that calling a new game "a fangame-like" is pretty disrespectful towards ZUN, especially when you didn't buy the demo (and obviously you don't have any plan on buying the full game). I've been in this Touhou thing quite a while (since SA demo) and I know hating new things is like a rule these days but I somewhat feel this was too much; it was the first time I read something this harsh lol.

I'm not judging anyone here, just saying what I've seen in different websites.

If someone doesn't like the game that's cool, we all have different opinions. I can understand some people not liking it and it's obvious it'd happen, that's just a common thing. You can't make everyone happy. But there are people that doesn't let you like things no matter what.

And y'know sometimes I just wanna have a nice chat with fellow Touhou players without someone saying "holy shit everything post SA it's fucking garbage ZUN died long ago" lol. Sorry if this was kinda "dramatic" but it has happen.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 10:40:42 AM by Plubio »

Flandre5carlet

  • Sister of the Devil
  • "So all I have to do is 'kyuu', and..."
    • flan.moe
imo it's nothing worth worrying over, people will be people and sometimes they're very entitled about their opinion. It's a bit like when people say things like "Why is X character more popular than Y character, Y should be more popular than X because [reasons] and if you prefer X over Y you should feel bad"
At the end of the day it's a vocal minority that thinks them disliking the game means the game is objectively bad - while the rest either dislike the game in silence (or state their taste in a civil manner), or like the game and are busy playing it.

Chill Observer

  • Aimless fanatic
  • haHAA
I also don't understand the term "fangame-like". Is this supposed to be a good or bad thing? Because I have played several quality fangames and enjoyed them thoroughly, if it's supposed to be a good thing.
Retired Touhou player. Not involved with anything Touhou anymore.

I also don't understand the term "fangame-like". Is this supposed to be a good or bad thing? Because I have played several quality fangames and enjoyed them thoroughly, if it's supposed to be a good thing.

It seems to be a bit of a double standard for some people.
FIrst they say that the fangames are better than ZUN's official games
And then they complain that ZUN's new official game feels "too much like a fangame".

I know not everyone who prefers fangames mimicks this behaviour but I have observed it in youtube comments and so on.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
And y'know sometimes I just wanna have a nice chat with fellow Touhou players without someone saying "holy shit everything post SA it's fucking garbage ZUN died long ago" lol. Sorry if this was kinda "dramatic" but it has happen.

In fairness, though, these people are a small minority. Non-fans such as this (and I say "non-fan" because people who are still hanging out in the fandom for the sole purpose of bitching about how much ZUN has failed since Game X are not actually fans) can and should be safely ignored.

There's plenty of people here who are willing to talk about Touhou in a friendly, casual way. Non-fans are annoying, but few.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Plubio

  • 宇宙少年
    • Suzunaan
In fairness, though, these people are a small minority. Non-fans such as this (and I say "non-fan" because people who are still hanging out in the fandom for the sole purpose of bitching about how much ZUN has failed since Game X are not actually fans) can and should be safely ignored.

Worry not. I've met a lot of Touhou fans who I can speak to about new stuff and so on. And I've never feel restrained to post on these forums too. I know they're a minority but usually they make the biggest noise.

Anyway, thank you for your words tho :)

I find that the music grows a bit on me after some time, even though I did feel it was a bit generic at first. So I suggest anyone doubting it give it some time.

I second this, especially Larva's theme and Aunn's theme. They're already on their way to some of the top of my favorite touhou themes!


Don't let specific surroundings fool you, I am positive the main vibe around the game is flawed, but still good.

Now we wait for the full version.

Colticide

  • Awoo!~
  • *
I second this, especially Larva's theme and Aunn's theme. They're already on their way to some of the top of my favorite touhou themes!

I also agree with those! Eternity's and Aunn's are amazing! I even like the title theme too! Which is kinda odd for me since it takes me a bit to get use to some music. (especially from DDC, I love those tracks now but it was so different it took me back)
Touhou Fugyouseki ~ Nightmare of Sleeping Girl English Patch
I run a crappy YouTube channel, check it out if you wish~

i mean, i definitely had my 'i hate swr/soku and why does anyone like this trash please stop so i can keep having more of The Good Stuff that i actually like' era which was kind of a dumb opinion to have even in the best of circumstances

i'm over it, we all grow up sometime. it's not worth the anger, people like what they like, celebrate what you do and hope to see more of it in the world

there's definitely a bit of "in my day, games were better because i was younger and less jaded about the world" out there though

Failure McFailFace

  • I'm h...a...p...p...y...
  • Impor
Been playing a bunch.

It's chaotic. Between collecting power and point and Season makes it a little hard to collect all three at once.
Either the stage 1 small fairies have more health than usual or the shots are weaker this time around.
An auto-release patch would be cool. I can't count how many times I've run into the boss thinking that releases give me invincibility.
AyaAutumn is definitely OP. ReimuSpring is pretty bad for score. Marisa doesn't pierce (again. y zun).

Music's nice. Title screen theme is intense. I like Stage 3 boss theme
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
An auto-release patch would be cool. I can't count how many times I've run into the boss thinking that releases give me invincibility.
AyaAutumn is definitely OP. ReimuSpring is pretty bad for score. Marisa doesn't pierce (again. y zun).
How would autorelease fix that though? :V Aya pierces instead of Marisa this time around, although it still feels a little strange.

It's worth nothing you can't deathrelease, either. You can only deathbomb.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

I've been thinking, and it's a bit strange how the three bosses/stages are so well related to their respective season's characters.

Eternity is a Fairy and so is Cirno
Nemuno's had a territorial treaty with the Tengu of the youkai mountain
And Aunn is all about shinto/buddhist temples.

It feels a bit too specific, almost SWR-like in a way that each character's homes are reflecting on a single season (whist SWR had characters reflecting a weather)

As many assumed, I'm pretty sure stage 4's oughtta happen in a wintery forest of magic.  I wonder if the boss will have anything to do with Marisa or the forest itself.  Maybe another magician, or maybe a plant youkai of sorts?

It'd be neat to see something like a Jubokko! 

I'd say it's likely the Stage 4 boss will have to do with a forest, since the first three bosses have to do with their setting. I don't recall anything about anything besides Marisa, Alice, and some mushrooms living in the Forest of Magic, though. Any mushroom Youkai? Then again, there was never anything said about a Komainu at the shrine.

Drake

  • *
This isn't a coincidence, the reason they're going to the different locations is because that's where the seasons are changing, and each player associates with the season because they live in places that were affected. Which is why they're investigating. Marisa outright says that the next location would be Winter, so Forest of Magic it should be.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 04:01:59 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Onion

  • Classic era Marisa-like entity
  • Failing at Touhou since 2000-something
Tried the demo out:
  • A return of bullet varieties. (Bubble bullets, knives, curvy lasers)
  • Play-doh shot types
  • Powerful music
  • No life pieces
  • Return of old characters
  • An English config menu & utf-8 text files (okay, that's not new)
Best. Touhou. Ever!
This is a good Touhou game, and totally what I was hoping for! It's beautiful! It's basic! It's ZUNish!

My only possible complaints would be regarding releases: I keep mixing up buttons, now that I have 4 to keep track of, and I keep mixing up danmaku and seasonable collectables, since they're not square. Square things are not collectable. Also, releases do NOT make you invincible against enemies, so I keep dying by headbutt with Aya+fall at the speed of sound. Practice will probably make it better.

The spell cards seem either pretty, but not really for dodging, or Junko basic and will kill you on sight.
Eternity Larva's last normal pattern remind me of Rumia's Demarcation.
Sakata Nemuno's nonspells feel original. I might just have not met a boss she's taken after, though.
Her first spell seems rather Color Typhoon esque. The second gives me LoLK nightmare flashbacks. Her third reminds me of Sakuya's nonspell from EoSD, but is actually easy to dodge.
Stage 3 reminds me of SA stage 5 so much. It's almost uncanny. Lily White reminds me of Meiling.
Speaking of which, Komano Aunn's patters are familiar. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Overall, the game feels familiar, but is still new and refreshing. I love it!
Please wait warmly. Girls are intentionally leaving this space blank.

Since everybody has these: 1CC PoDD ez, 1CC(?) EoSD ez, PD LoLK, something something HM ULiL

PK

  • Border of Whatever
I read a theory saying fairies are getting empowered because the seasons/nature give them overflowing power. Which would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that Aunn also feels much more powerful than usual, so i think the power boosts are affecting youkai (gods? Whatevs Aunn is supposed to be) as well. Just not all of them, since apparently Nemuno and Aya didn't feel anything.
Or maybe Aunn's ability to detect gods actually makes her stronger depending on the "divinity level" of the surroundings, so there might be a crazy strong god in the later game that is making Auuunn's divinity-o-meter going out of scale which is obviously the Dragon God, who can control nature and seasons.

Also to anyone speculating Stage 4 will be the magic forest.



yes.

Drake

  • *
That much was already in the Prologue :V

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -