Pre-edit Read Drake's post as well, Saijee.I've decided to step back and go jogging outside when I noticed Saijee appearing. After that went to bed and this morning I read the replies here and I think people are still not getting what the problem is. Kilga has addressed it twice. Specifically his last post:
So you've told Fumio that the IGG drive has been ended and that all money received through it will be refunded (excepting those who insist
on you keeping it), and he confirmed that this was okay?
I want to know the answer to this too, because I am still not convinced.
@ Saijee & FSS ※
Orange/Green > You're nitpicking the guidelines. This section explains us nothing new and doesn't answer our crucial questions. Read
stuffman's reply again. Just because something is not covered in the guidelines, doesn't mean it is ok. We have told you hundred times and even one page one. Your ignorance was so high that even if you decided to ignore me, you also decided to ignore NForza who is actually partaking in Doujin events and involved in the scene. Not to mention even never replied on time on Cuc/Monhan's alerts.
Yeah, I think that starting up a crowdfunding campaign before receiving permission from ZUN, even with recent changes regarding his games and fan games on other platforms, seems like a poor idea. Even saying that you contacted him really doesn't mean anything, because he could have very easily ignored/overlooked it.
Crowdfunding project is a
bad idea, even worse because you didn't ask permission. Yet were dodging the point that you made a major mistake and weren't admitting it was foolish. Because your prior attitude showed you had no intention of listening to us and you still aren't to be honest. While you say you realise it was bad, you keep defending yourself by spinning around the actual problem. You got warned and alerted by Yonjin-san and Ruw-san for a very good reason. How come you didn't take them serious? Or did you honestly kept that attitude: "You're not ZUN, so w/e" towards even them? Way the go to charm the Eastern people.
You claim you didn't speak about TohoSmash with Yonjin and it wasn't the problem. The very reason why Yonjin prodded is because of your crowdfunding problem. You just refused to listen to him and started a very poor argue how the guidelines were unfair and you had the right to do so. Ruw-san also tweeted for a reason. Japanese Doujin experienced people don't go tweeting out of the blue. How can you be so dense to ignore this? And don't give me the lousy excuse "I didn't." Because if that was the case, your actions would be different. Basically: The whole orange coloured section you wrote is dodging the point and nitpicking. Stop doing this.
※
Blue section > No. Your #1 and #2 solutions are highly discouraged and we already given you the reasons.
- You didn't do everything. You're still in the danger zone and you are risking both yourself and your game by keeping this up.
- Dozen of people have told you, IGG cannot enforce you to conduct copyright infringement. That is plain nonsense. If you're inexperienced and can't handle this: Stop acting all-knowing and ask for serious help. And we already told you how: Ask TSA for Copyright Claim. How hard is that?
- I have no idea what you're even trying to explain with your 2nd point about the non-public setting issue. Someone can enlighten?
※
Blue navy last section > First you claim you will not hold back information, now you're saying that you cannot disclose the e-mail. But I'll understand that such e-mails can be indeed very sensitive and the person contacting you will be highly requesting this to be private. Logical, because otherwise every fool would start personally mailing targetting a name. However, you could in fact censor out the names and e-mail address and show us the actual message. I am not convinced.
Suggestion, you're not obliged too but if you really want to convince us and take away part of that shady behaviour: Censor out the header name/e-mailaddress and PM / Pastebin (private, with expiration timer) Monhan / Forza or Cuc the e-mail (they are the doujin experts here), so they can read it and confirm whether it is true or not. That way, there will be no public disclosure. Think about this.
※ Other concerns I have to express:
- Registering on Dlsite.com doesn't make you a circle, it has nothing to do with "registering". Especially on the adult section. I don't understand why you even explained that in the transcript. That is another sign of not knowing what you're doing and just rushing things.
- You can perfectly be a circle on your own even. There are many individuals attending Comiket / Reitaisai if I am not mistaking.
- Don't let Itohkuni speak about laws, sueing and other stuff. Your brother has absolutely no idea what he is doing. The whole explanation was terrible and it has already been noticed by Eastern people as well. You're not doing any favour with this.
- There is absolutely no shame in asking help. So ditch this dense mind set. For my own game, I have asked maybe 12 people in my vicinity about things that concern me. And they have provided useful advice I am following. It isn't hard you know?
- Stop the rush. You've been rushing all this time. But all you did was digging a deeper hole which you're in it. And you still are. Read below why:
What is your take on all this?
1) Ask TSA to claim copyright to forcefully cancel the IGG project. There are no 'buts'. And see Drake's post again about the license and why he doesn't buy your excuse.
2) You
don't highly suggest people to accept the refund. You refund,
no matter what. You don't give your backers/funders any choice or options. Because they have none and neither do you.
3) This is not a normal situation so normal procedures don't apply. You cannot follow IGG's guidelines and neither you're enforced to. There will be no 'mutual' agreement. That is being overruled by TSA.
4) Giving people their perks by keeping the money == CROWDFUNDING --> Violation of the ZUN rules.
5) External help
for free is not violating the rules, because anybody is technically free to "join" your circle or leave. This has nothing to do with Doujin guidelines or rules.
6) Remove ZUN's picture from your IGG project and anywhere else. A Tengufriend told me that Yonjin-san is highly suggesting it to be removed from both the video and websites.
7) That same Tengufriend also said Yonjin-san is stating not to use " Touhou " in your game title. Apparently my Tengufriend says that 東方 name is the problem. It makes it look like it is an official game.
From Yonjin. Quite long: Keyword is "misunderstanding as official Game of Shanhai Alice" They are using "東方〜"in title first, and using ZUN's face picture.
Yonjin's msg: >また、ゲーム名、及び作品名などはそのまま作品名として使用する事は禁止します。 （キャラ名やゲーム内の単語のままの作品や（博麗霊夢、博麗神社等）、その他公式か どうか紛らわしい物（東方永夜抄外伝等）、私がこれから使用しそうな名前（嘘） は出来るだけ避けてください。）
Continuing. if ZUN think it's not problem, he would ignore it. but this case, they show off abroad service, and it means not all people knows what Touhou is. It's OK to use in game. It doesn't matter if it doesn't cause misunderstanding that as Official Products. Recently, this rule may ignore. because most people(otaku) in Japan already knows Touhou. but, like animation, those contents may reach to peaple who donot know Touhou, it seem not to use "Touhou" in title. ・Campain still exit on IGG and they use ZUN's picture, and it cause misunderstanding that TSBB is official game. especially people, who don't understand what's Touhou, easy to misunderstand. By using Touhou in the title... That's about it, I guess. Of course, it depends on where they'll sell their product. And since they haven't answered Forza, well It's likely that they should change the title
8) Only and only once everything is cancelled, refunded and project has returned to its original state --> Before you announced the crowdfunding, then we can be all at ease.
9) If by any chance you refuse to actually acknowledge all of this, it means you're acting
suspicious and making this look like a scam or finding loopholes to cash in the money no matter what because you are really eager with your current behaviour to forcefully end the campaign and thus "complete" it. We aint stupid, neither is the eastern side.
10) I said this before: If I don't see any proof provided or effort taken to contact TSA regarding the refunding issue, then I'm going to personally attend it to them by askin Yonjin-san or Ruw-san.
Note: If the doujin experts among us have objection against the above, let it be known here.
Also @ All the other people who are here, reading and thinking we hate TohoSmash or Saijee. Let me tell you something: Do you really think we would take 18 pages to bash a fan game? Do you really think that a lot of Doujin experienced people would bother giving their opinions and arguments?
"But Helepolis, why are you attacking FSS then?" We aren't attacking. We're
protecting. Not only FSS, not only Saijee or his game but the entire Western Fan Community. If by any chance ZUN is highly upset and suddenly adjust his guidelines by stating: "Outside of Japan, no more derived games allowed" then we are all
royally screwed. That is why I, as a moderator, have the responsibility to enforce this on our section. There is a reason why we are also heavily frowning upon Piracy. We don't do this because piracy is bad, but also to protect our forum from being sued. Protecting our reputation to show the Eastern fans and critics that our forum houses intelligent and respectful people. And protecting something goes with heated discussions, occasional rage/hating and extensive debates. Life isn't easy.
"Hah, you're exaggerating Helepolis, ZUN doesn't care about west"If that was the case, then he wouldn't bother with AWA. He wouldn't bother being actually charmed by the west. If you didn't notice, his viewpoint was changed after AWA.
"So Helepolis why are you so heated about this?" Personal opinion: I dislike people abusing our forum to ride on fame then ditch us and ignore us. Saijee was showing signs of this and thus I kept calling him out for this. And it seems I wasn't the only one concerned. Also excuses like "I was busy" doesn't fly when you're spending hours on answering Youtube/facebook. Yes, that needs to be done. Yes, it is important and I understand that. But don't go abuse the people here. And this isn't a personal vendetta or war declaring.
"Helepolis, I thought RikaNitori was a no-drama zone" Yes, true but: I welcome every fan game on our forum. We don't laugh and disrespect people's work. No matter how ugly the game is in your opinion, no matter how stupid it is in your opinion or no matter how silly it is in your opinion: It is welcome here. Want to hate a game or person? Do it somewhere else.
But our issue here wasn't TohoSmash it self as a game. The game it self was supported for 14 pages if you didn't notice. There was nothing wrong
until the crowdfunding was announced. A very poor and miscalculated move from Saijee. I am not entirely convinced yet, but he is somewhat understanding the major mess he is in.
And no, we're not out of the woods yet.
