Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: nintendonut888 on August 16, 2009, 05:08:22 AM
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1. Obviously, this game has confirmed that Makai still is canon, though it appears much more sinister than in MS. But also, Reimu mentions in her dialogue that she remembers Makai from before, so this is yet more proof that PC-98 is still recognized as canon.
2. I've always thought the "Shinki is Alice's mom" theory to be very flawed. People say it's because she was in Makai at the time, but UFO gives an indirect explanation for why Alice was there during the events of Mystic Square:
There's a miasma that's bad for you body floating about,
but it makes magic stronger.
There's also a similar quote in another scenario that says that you can learn magic there, and also that Marisa wanted to go there, as a magician. So there is a perfectly sensible explanation for why Alice was in Makai.
3. Houkai (where Byakuren was sealed) is said to be a part of Makai, sealed away in a corner of it. If you look at the background of Byakuren's fight, you'll notice two structures. To me, they look like Pandemonium (the castle where Shinki lives) and a city (probably the city from MS stage 3). Even more suggestion that all this has happened in the past.
So tl;dr, suck it people who say PC-98 isn't still canon. Even if I have problems with UFO itself, stuff like this makes me like it.
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I'm pretty sure I already said EVERYTHING FROM STAGE 6 IS A REFERENCE
HELL THE DAMN FAIRIES MAKE A SPACE INVADERS LINE
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I was pretty much happy with the PC-98 references in this game, but if ZUN is trying to bring back stuff from PC-98, why not bring back the characters themselves? He already went as far as to include Makai and give Byakuren Shinki's attacks, why not just put Shinki in her place instead? Yes, I feel that ZUN is trolling PC-98 fans by creating new characters so similar to PC-98 characters instead of using the older characters. Then again, the same thing can also be said to fans who actually want to see new characters if he did bring PC-98 back, so...
Anyway, what's done is done; I'll just be glad that he didn't forget about PC-98.
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afaik Touhou became waaaay more popular when it hit Windows; bringing old characters back would be nice but ZUN really has no reason to. though, considering UFO maybe we'll see an older character in the next game? hell, I'm saying Mima or a PoDD character
the PC-98 games were *always* canon... pretty sure everything overseen by ZUN is and has always been canon, and probably always will be. whoever said "the PC-98 games never happened" is a idiot/are idiots
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There's one funny thing I've noticed and I don't know if it was already mentioned:
When the demo was released, everyone thought the heroines will fly higher and higher.
And at the end, they reach Makai, THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE.
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And at the end, they reach Makai
THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE
Fun fact: during MS; the heroine entered Makai through a portal in the sky.
Taking "ma" (魔) to be "demon", "kai" (界) to be "world", Makai would be quite literally "Demon World". I don't see anything wrong.
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I've also considered whether UFO might be the beginning of a PC-98 relapse. The last 3 incidents have all been related and involve opening up the underground and Makai. The appearance of Makai as well as Shinki's spellcard suggests that it may continue.
Plot of TH13, demons are once again all over gensokyo? I wish.
Regardless, no point getting to involved in it. There's still... 8 months at least until we hear the slightest word of Touhou 13 so just kick back and relax for now.
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So tl;dr, suck it people who say PC-98 isn't still canon.
PC-98 is totally canon, no doubt about it, and UFO confirms it. Just because a lot of PC-98 characters haven't yet returned doesn't change that. It's like I've said before: they're not "dead", they're just off somewhere else doing their own thing. Kind of like when old friends move away from your neighborhood.
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People ever said PC-98 wasn't canon? I just said that they're frustrating and unfortunate as games :v except LLS
It kind of begs the question of why the old characters haven't returned if they're overlapping here and there with new ones.
Probably the best explanation I can think of is that the new characters fit the storyline better. ZUN's definitely putting an increasing emphasis on plot; I think it's kind of neat how in his mind Gensokyo with all its obscure references fits together as it does.
That and EoSD would have been much more of a joke game if it was called Mystic Square Grudge Match tbh.
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Taking "ma" (魔) to be "demon", "kai" (界) to be "world", Makai would be quite literally "Demon World". I don't see anything wrong.
Well, it's a common issue that Makai gets confused with hell.
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Well, it's a common issue that Makai gets confused with hell.
And this is precisely why more people should play THRtP. :V
Even though the path names ought to be swapped. An angel of death fits better into hell, and an astral knight fits better into the demon world. Don't you think?
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Houkai (法界) mean Law World?
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I suppose. Literally it says "Universe", but I doubt that's what he wanted.
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Probably has something to do with some Buddhist enlightened land, state or similar. Byakuren was suppose to be a monk or learned Buddhist magic right ?
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I don't wanna say it, but this is all another round of 'OH SHIT MIMA/SHINKI/WHOEVER is coming back!' feel I get from all the vibes, I will keep being cynic about it. Even if the few things do point to it in Donut's post I find no reason to get the hype over it.
That and oh, it is good if it comes true, I am not crossing fingers or anything.
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Probably the best explanation I can think of is that the new characters fit the storyline better. ZUN's definitely putting an increasing emphasis on plot; I think it's kind of neat how in his mind Gensokyo with all its obscure references fits together as it does.
The explanation is that ZUN wants to make new characters and doesn't want to make explanations for the return of old characters. I don't know why, but that's the way it is.
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There's also the heartbeat sounds in the Stage 6 theme.
Final Stage theme
World's End
This song is just for a stage to let you
get some more items before the boss, so it's short.
Actually, I wanted to try to do this with just a
heartbeat sound, but this isn't that kind of
game *g*
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Oh wow, you're right. I never even noticed that.
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I don't wanna say it, but this is all another round of 'OH SHIT MIMA/SHINKI/WHOEVER is coming back!' feel I get from all the vibes, I will keep being cynic about it. Even if the few things do point to it in Donut's post I find no reason to get the hype over it.
That and oh, it is good if it comes true, I am not crossing fingers or anything.
So tl;dr, suck it people who say PC-98 isn't still canon. Even if I have problems with UFO itself, stuff like this makes me like it.
direct hit confirmed :D
It's a positive thing for me that ZUN did reference the former games, so that people wouldn't have to wonder what happened to the other characters or where they were all this time (as ZUN himself once said), and also to reiterate that the PC-98 games are as canonical as the Windows games. Yes, there are retards in the imageboard that say that characters from older games don't exist in canon, because the games are old.
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For the record, I'm not going to give in to foolishness and think that this means we're all set for a big PC-98 revival. After all, PC-98 already has five games of material, and it'd be more unfair to the Windows characters that all these girls got two appearances as bosses. I'm just happy that ZUN's saying that he hasn't forgotten about the games where Touhou got its start.
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I wanted to try to do this with just a
heartbeat sound, but this isn't that kind of
game *g*
[/quote]
I''m sure it would sound good if it beats like drum.
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Okay, a few things about all of this.
A. I was laughing so hard when I saw Shinki's attack, because earlier that day I had stated "If there was any character I would like to see return, it would be Shinki."
B. I am very, very happy that the last boss was not Yumemi or Shinki or Yuka or whatever the heck people wanted. Sorry, but that would be very underwhelming. The ultimate boss of a game shouldn't be a returning character. It's like, "Hi, you were expecting a new character with some motive you've never seen before but you just get a reuse, enjoy"
C. Totally unrelated but Emotional Skyscraper ~ Cosmic Mind is the greatest song.
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I seriously would want to know more about the character personalities and profile ( I know their powers and such are translated ) But seriously PMiSS act II is required for all the new characters for MoF and higher?
And Cosmic Mind is indeed a great song fitting perfectly Byakuren's desires and speech. Too bad people bash it for a general reason like: "It is final boss so needs badass theme"
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It is a badass theme, what's up with that!
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Okay, a few things about all of this.
A. I was laughing so hard when I saw Shinki's attack, because earlier that day I had stated "If there was any character I would like to see return, it would be Shinki."
B. I am very, very happy that the last boss was not Yumemi or Shinki or Yuka or whatever the heck people wanted. Sorry, but that would be very underwhelming. The ultimate boss of a game shouldn't be a returning character. It's like, "Hi, you were expecting a new character with some motive you've never seen before but you just get a reuse, enjoy"
C. Totally unrelated but Emotional Skyscraper ~ Cosmic Mind is the greatest song.
I totally agree with point B.
and yes, C too.
I want the heartbeat part mixed into it too...
or better still... what is that stage 6 stage theme? That heartbeat! that heartbeat!
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The Stage 6 theme translates to "Fires of Hokkai", so says the wiki.
Before reading the translations I thought I was in the loli version of 2001: A Space Odyssey by that point.
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Yeah, both last stages weren't exactly the same kind of "EPIC!" I was hoping for in e.g. Mountain of Faith and IN, music-wise, but they did do what they were trying to do very well.
Also the first time I've seen heartbeat and drums mixed like that.
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B. I am very, very happy that the last boss was not Yumemi or Shinki or Yuka or whatever the heck people wanted. Sorry, but that would be very underwhelming. The ultimate boss of a game shouldn't be a returning character. It's like, "Hi, you were expecting a new character with some motive you've never seen before but you just get a reuse, enjoy"
my feelings exactly.
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how long do you think the "It all started with the Moriya Shrine" games are going to continue?
From 12.3, Reimu mentions the crew from UFO found a temple to stay, but she also mentions this feels like the quiet before the storm, almost the same way she did in one of the mangas, can't remember if Silent Sinner or Nature Deity. She told Marisa everybody was quiet, waiting for the other to make a move to act.
So we have peaceful youkai, nuclear reactor doing ok, Sanae seems to be less of a zealot in 12.3 and everything looks good, so what could happen next to screw things up?
Also, just what are Suwako plans in 12.3? Obviously no idea what Sanae's ending translates into, so I may be missing something, but Sanae asked her if Kanako knew what was she doing, and Suwako just dodged the questions.
Could somebody explain what happens with Sanae's story in 12.3?
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so what could happen next to screw things up?
i can think of a few, some more likely than others:
1. Byakuren was lying
2. Nue interferes again
3. Kanako does something
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Hmm. I don't think we have enough basis for speculation at the moment. We couldn't really have known, with the release of MoF, that Kanako would indirectly set the "geyser incident" in motion, nor at SA's release that Orin's geysers would release a Nue who would send out objects which happened to appear to the heroines as UFOs.
Hmm. I can see Byakuren trying to set something in motion which indirectly results in something in Touhou 13. Or perhaps someone in Makai got ... bothered by the goings on in Hokkai ...
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4. Aya starts a rumor that results in a zany misunderstanding, a la Three's Company.
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4. Aya starts a rumor that results in a zany misunderstanding, a la Three's Company.
Isn't that what happened in the Maikaze anime?
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4. Aya starts a rumor that results in a zany misunderstanding, a la Three's Company.
Isn't that what happened in the Maikaze anime?
It's been a while since I saw it, but I seem to remember Aya throwing books about the library, one of them hitting Patchy, resulting in Reimu having to fight Patchy. That's a pretty zany misunderstanding.
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Hmm, although UFO has the smallest cast yet (no unique midboss characters, although it's not really smalelr if you count Unzan), the "UFO family/shrine" is the biggest with 7 people; Nazrin, Ichirin, Unzan, Murasa, Shou, Byakuren, Nue, even larger than the SDM crew, which has 6; Meiling, Koakuma, Patchy, Sakuya, Remi, Flan.
Also
The youkai ... were there perhaps
a tiger, a ghost spirit, and a Nyuudo?
Ahahahahaha even Byakuren remembers Unzan over Ichirin.
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...Huh. Thinking about it, Shinki lives in Makai. Byakuren lives (sort of) in Makai. Byakuren has Shinki's limiting lasers, and doesn't seem like the thieving type... so that possibly means Byakuren was a student of Shinki, then? :V
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Actually, I was thinking about that too. She's been there for 1000 years or so, and her battle takes place outside of what seems to be Pandemonium, so I think it's a pretty credible possibility.
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...Huh. Thinking about it, Shinki lives in Makai. Byakuren lives (sort of) in Makai. Byakuren has Shinki's limiting lasers, and doesn't seem like the thieving type... so that possibly means Byakuren was a student of Shinki, then? :V
So...
Byakuren is Alice's sist*shot*
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^its...not exactly possible, but then again idk alice isint in this game...
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...Huh. Thinking about it, Shinki lives in Makai. Byakuren lives (sort of) in Makai. Byakuren has Shinki's limiting lasers, and doesn't seem like the thieving type... so that possibly means Byakuren was a student of Shinki, then? :V
So...
Byakuren is Alice's sist*shot*
I take it nobody really paid attention/cared about my second point, did they? >_>
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I take it nobody really paid attention/cared about my second point, did they? >_>
2. I've always thought the "Alice is Shinki's mom" theory to be very flawed. People say it's because she was in Makai at the time, but UFO gives an indirect explanation for why Alice was there during the events of Mystic Square
Of course they ignore the "Alice is Shinki's mom," as it is very ridiculous. Though, more ridiculous than the other way around.
ZUN never said any of those are canon, anyway. No matter what we're getting at here, if he doesn't acknowledge it, it can never be canon. But even that won't stop people from speculating insane theories, no?
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(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/KimikoMuffin/DarkTewi.jpg)
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not fair, you could apply that to just about anything
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Then why shouldn't you? :)
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So that was Black Tewi breaking the fourth wall but it still makes very little sense towards the actual relations of Hokkai and Makai and its characters imo.
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I take it nobody really paid attention/cared about my second point, did they? >_>
"Shinki is Alice's mom"
Now that it's been worded right, people will care/pay attention to the point you're trying to make.
Or not.
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So that was Black Tewi breaking the fourth wall but it still makes very little sense towards the actual relations of Hokkai and Makai and its characters imo.
The point is: "make your own."
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I take it nobody really paid attention/cared about my second point, did they? >_>
"Shinki is Alice's mom"
Now that it's been worded right, people will care/pay attention to the point you're trying to make.
Or not.
Eh?
*looks at OP*
Oh god damn it. Now I just feel stupid.
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Now comes a REALLY stupid idea:
Nue is Rumia's EX form if you take her ribbon away.
And Byakuren isn't the first to steal a "card" from a PC-98 character. I just say "Mokou's third spell card".
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Now comes a REALLY stupid idea:
Nue is Rumia's EX form if you take her ribbon away.
And Byakuren isn't the first to steal a "card" from a PC-98 character. I just say "Mokou's third spell card".
To be fair though, Mokou changed up the original there: It's a LOT easier than Evil Eye Sigma's "Flaw of Unforgiving Tank" (and yes I'm going to strive to make that its unofficial name)
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Now comes a REALLY stupid idea:
Nue is Rumia's EX form if you take her ribbon away.
And Byakuren isn't the first to steal a "card" from a PC-98 character. I just say "Mokou's third spell card".
To be fair though, Mokou changed up the original there: It's a LOT easier than Evil Eye Sigma's "Flaw of Unforgiving Tank" (and yes I'm going to strive to make that its unofficial name)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIznDu6TEs8#t=5m16s
Larger (bullet) hitboxes, boss lasers, no focus, etc. Even though it's static, it's still a nightmare to pass through.
Based on what I'm reading, it would be logical to conclude that Alice went to Makai?
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That's certainly the conclusion I'm getting. I mean, Shinki doesn't seem to take well to trespassers, but a single human/youkai (we don't know when she became a youkai) probably could live there without being found out, at least for a while.
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Also, for human's to seal Byakuren in Makai, they PROBABLY would have to get permission from Shinki. And Byakuren was trying to get some of Makai's power so that she could help Youkai more. So yeah. Probably met Shinki at SOME point.
Also, Donut, Shinki was pissed at Reimu and co. because they were essentially killing everything they came across. Not just because they entered.
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While we're on this subject (sorta), I'd like to hear what the experts have to say about Alice and her apparent rapid aging upon leaving Makai (contrast PC-98 Alice with PCB Alice).
The miasma around Makai inhibits physical growth, but I didn't interpret that as slowing the aging process.
Shinki was pissed at Reimu and co. because they were essentially killing everything they came across.
On the other hand, that's basically what you'd expect from Marisa, Mima, and Yuka anyway. Reimu just doesn't have much patience for people getting in her way.
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I sort of think that Alice probably used the mist to keep her in child form, being her probably now current form is her true look. In the child form, she may have used that to conceal her actual age or maybe some identity?
Yuka however... does she even care who she is hurting?
Marisa has shown to be somewhat distasteful with hitting down fairies before I think.
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This is a far stretch, but I think there's a connection between these two:
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3555/1250660788665.png)
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Yuugen Magan was Byakuren in her seal all along?
D:
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That's a pretty awesome connection
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Yuka however... does she even care who she is hurting?
PMiSS says she is polite to villagers, to the point that they wouldn't notice that she's a powerful youkai if they're not told so; it also states that she's not interested in fighting weak people, except if they're found near her flower field; so Yuka is the Touhou's Akuma/Gouki.
which may mean, if Yuka's ever in a Touhou fighting game, she'll take it easy on opponents and have low HP and be easily stunnable, or something to that effect
What I'm curious right now, is about Nue's possible appearance in LLS's Extra Stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVqrU83VV8&#t=1m38s
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Seems like a large stretch to say that Nue would have appeared in LLS Extra, although being a nue she's been running amuck for who knows how long.
It would fit but I severely doubt Zun would have that kind of foresight.
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My big expert opinion that is 100% correct and cannot be contradicted is that Alice went through a design change, plain and simple. True she looks younger in MS, but it'd contradict the facts set in PMiSS if she had aged much more between MS and PCB. It'd help if we knew exactly how recently Alice became a youkai. Maybe it's just me, but Yuka also looks older in her Windows reappearance than she did in PC-98, but someone who's centuries old shouldn't age like that.
What I'm curious right now, is about Nue's possible appearance in LLS's Extra Stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVqrU83VV8&#t=1m38s
Well, ignoring the fact that Nue did not exist for another 11 years after that game, I'd call Nue's midboss appearances more of a throwback to that orb than her appearing. I have always been wondering about what the orb (which I've given the affectionate name of "That Damn Glowing Orb"), but I doubt it was a character that was introduced over a decade later.
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I always just thought that Alice might look a bit older for her age. Personally, I wouldn't really trust ZUN's art to distinguish a character's age. That's just me, though~
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Possibility: Akyu is simply wrong. Remember, she's getting second- and third-hand information at best.
Remember, kids, this is fanon: canon is whatever you want it to be. ;)
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See, that's something that bugs me; people using the defense "Akyu was wrong." It's true she's an unreliable narrator, but this was an official resource book, meant to tell us more about Gensokyo and its inhabitants. Unless it's plain and clear she is wrong (like labeling Eirin/Kaguya as humans), there's no reason to doubt her words. Plus Alice is a youkai (arguing with the facts is just wasting time), and acts a lot like a human, so where's the room for question?
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What I'm curious right now, is about Nue's possible appearance in LLS's Extra Stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVqrU83VV8&#t=1m38s
Well, ignoring the fact that Nue did not exist for another 11 years after that game, I'd call Nue's midboss appearances more of a throwback to that orb than her appearing. I have always been wondering about what the orb (which I've given the affectionate name of "That Damn Glowing Orb"), but I doubt it was a character that was introduced over a decade later.
I thought the Glowing Orb in LLS Extra was Yuka, considering she turned into the same orb twice during the stage 6 battle.
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What I'm curious right now, is about Nue's possible appearance in LLS's Extra Stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQVqrU83VV8&#t=1m38s
Well, ignoring the fact that Nue did not exist for another 11 years after that game, I'd call Nue's midboss appearances more of a throwback to that orb than her appearing. I have always been wondering about what the orb (which I've given the affectionate name of "That Damn Glowing Orb"), but I doubt it was a character that was introduced over a decade later.
I thought the Glowing Orb in LLS Extra was Yuka, considering she turned into the same orb twice during the stage 6 battle.
Hmmm...
... ... ...
...Holy crap.
YUKA IS NUE! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!
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See, that's something that bugs me; people using the defense "Akyu was wrong." It's true she's an unreliable narrator, but this was an official resource book, meant to tell us more about Gensokyo and its inhabitants. Unless it's plain and clear she is wrong (like labeling Eirin/Kaguya as humans), there's no reason to doubt her words. Plus Alice is a youkai (arguing with the facts is just wasting time), and acts a lot like a human, so where's the room for question?
I see your point, but my main focus was meant to be on my other comment, "canon is whatever you want it to be." In Touhou, canon is vague enough that, well, you can pretty much interpret anything however you want.
Theorin's comment above actually halfway makes sense. ;)
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Muffin:
If people start thinking that fanon takes precedence over canon, when someone says "Eirin is Sakuya from the future, who left the SDM after Reimu slew Remilia", none would be able to say otherwise, even if canonically Reimu didn't kill Remilia.
Donut:
perhaps Eirin is human, it all depends if she was always living in the moon, or she moved to the moon (much before Kaguya had to be exiled to Earth), it's a possibility; Kaguya, however, has a greater possibility of having been born in the Moon, though
Black-Cat:
Nue said she was imprisoned until after Subterranean Animism; unless you consider the possibility of Yuka being imprisoned right after PoFV D:
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I didn't say it took precedence over canon. Look, just about everything which is directly observed by the player/reader/etc. is technically pretty much immutable except for stylistic reasons and/or when there is a potential contradiction (i.e. based on who you're playing as), unless you're explicitly going for an AU fanfic. I'm saying that beyond that you've got plenty of wiggle room.
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Black-Cat:
Nue said she was imprisoned until after Subterranean Animism; unless you consider the possibility of Yuka being imprisoned right after PoFV D:
I didn't say Yuka is Nue, I just stated that I think Yuka appeared in LLS's Extra Stage. ;)
Theorin was the one, putting a hilarious connection.
But also, considering Nue can change the way she looks, I guess, she could have been everyone the heroens ever met befor - if she wouldn't have been sealed away as stated.
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understood.. and.. understood :D
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I found out something..
Well, you know in MS, stage 4 midboss, bluehaired Luize?
She does that warping thing.
And in UFO, Murasa does that warping thing in her '' last word ''
2:00 forward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvrC_bs5lzQ
6:20 forward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8jCBRusFJo
Luize and Murasa DO HAVE kinda similar outfits too..
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I found out something..
Well, you know in MS, stage 4 midboss, bluehaired Luize?
She does that warping thing.
And in UFO, Murasa does that warping thing in her '' last word ''
2:00 forward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvrC_bs5lzQ
6:20 forward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8jCBRusFJo
Luize and Murasa DO HAVE kinda similar outfits too..
Hmm, that's quite the interesting find there, and too think of all people Yandere!Luize gets a referance too. There's PC98 goodness everywhere in this game I swear~
Although, them having similar outfits is something I'm not seeing. For one she would need the hat and a dress as simple as Luize's, if anything Koishi has a more similar attire than Murasa does. In fact Koishi and Luize are actually similar in the their way of traveling, although the similarities end when powers are concearned.
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=1664.60;num_replies=72#top
I found out something..
Well, you know in MS, stage 4 midboss, bluehaired Luize?
She does that warping thing.
And in UFO, Murasa does that warping thing in her '' last word ''
2:00 forward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvrC_bs5lzQ
6:20 forward
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8jCBRusFJo
Luize and Murasa DO HAVE kinda similar outfits too..
Hmm, that's quite the interesting find there, and too think of all people Yandere!Luize gets a referance too. There's PC98 goodness everywhere in this game I swear~
Although, them having similar outfits is something I'm not seeing. For one she would need the hat and a dress as simple as Luize's, if anything Koishi has a more similar attire than Murasa does. In fact Koishi and Luize are actually similar in the their way of traveling, although the similarities end when powers are concearned.
Oh? I think they have pretty much the same looking costume..
(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7289/5671108.jpg)
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4307/4937544.jpg)
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/touhou/images/3/33/Th05luize.png)
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/touhou/images/d/de/Murasa.png)
Or maybe im just blind to see that there is nothing in common..
Also, those yellow lazers in one of the Byakuren's spellcards reminds me of the things that Yuki/Mai/Alice sends after you in MS. Those poor looking things.. you know?
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Luize looks more like shes a passenger going on a cruise.
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Luize looks more like shes a passenger going on a cruise.
I can just imagine the doujin now... CAPTAIN MINAMITSU MURASA and her first mate Chiyuri start up a cruise holiday service (yes, I know Gensokyo's landlocked, don't ask how it works). However, Luize is the only one who actually goes on the cruise. Distraught at only having one customer, the two sailors decide that they have to make her trip as satisfying as possible so that she spreads the word of how good it is and they can get more customers....
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Luize looks more like shes a passenger going on a cruise.
I can just imagine the doujin now... CAPTAIN MINAMITSU MURASA and her first mate Chiyuri start up a cruise holiday service (yes, I know Gensokyo's landlocked, don't ask how it works). However, Luize is the only one who actually goes on the cruise. Distraught at only having one customer, the two sailors decide that they have to make her trip as satisfying as possible so that she spreads the word of how good it is and they can get more customers....
Hmmm...my usual preferances would have me a bit indifferent on the idea, but...since this involves Luize and Chiyuri (and there's practically nothing NSFW involving them or PC98 respectively)...
I say fund it. *Gendo Hands*
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Hm. I'm compiling a complete list of PC-98 references in UFO. Does Chiyuri have a teleportation attack, too? Someone mentioned that on IRC ...
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Her EX attack in PoDD has her teleporting around, making her hellish attacks last even longer than usual.
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Goddam Zun, why do you keep trolling :<
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Goddam Zun, why do you keep trolling :<
I suppose it's possible he just rolled a critical failure on his "appeasing the PC-98 fans" check.
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Meh, the PC-98 fans who aren't satisfied by this are way too picky. Personally I find it the best part about UFO.
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HARDCORE PC98 fans are going to bitch and whine until they get their characters back
then they'll bitch and whine more because they have a different outfit or something
real PC98 fans are pretty cool though, cause they don't go ASHFGDIOUPGEBSGNK over new characters not being old characters.
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ZUNNNN, I'd rather not see any references to PC-98 games, if you are not going to bring back any PC-98 characters.. or any new characters that are related to PC-98 characters..
:<
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then they'll bitch and whine more because they have a different outfit or something
The outfits will be different and there is nothing anyone can do about it. *Evil Zun laugh* I'm sure he has one.
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HARDCORE PC98 fans are going to bitch and whine until they get their characters back
then they'll bitch and whine more because they have a different outfit or something
real PC98 fans are pretty cool though, cause they don't go ASHFGDIOUPGEBSGNK over new characters not being old characters.
ZUNNNN, I'd rather not see any references to PC-98 games, if you are not going to bring back any PC-98 characters.. or any new characters that are related to PC-98 characters..
:<
Me, I'm just gonna ... um ... drag my feet on Perfect Square, actually, because I'm slightly worried about Reimu's comment in 12.3 about the calm before the storm.
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Personally I'm fine with the PC98 referances and what not, it's that fact that made me think twice about ZUN and his ability to put continuity in his work.
The only thing that TRULY pisses me off is when fans try to REPLACE the PC98 characters being referanced (Like the Captain and Byakuren being seen as the new Yumemi and Chiyuri. Nuh-uh, that ain't gonna fly, carry that bullshit somewhere else before I shove it back up your ass, Fandumb).
So yeah, I don't care if PC98 characters come back, which is saying something, considering how much of a Shinkifag I am and all. If ZUN does bring'em back then fine he'll make me a happy black guy, if not then so what, life goes on.
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Luize, Chiyuri, and whoever have no reason to be in UFO's plot just based on the backstory.
Trying to put them in would vaguely amount to ZUN writing bad fanfiction of his own games.
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Luize, Chiyuri, and whoever have no reason to be in UFO's plot just based on the backstory.
Trying to put them in would vaguely amount to ZUN writing bad fanfiction of his own games.
Well, I'm sure ZUN is perfectly capable of writing a backstory for which they would make sense. Mind you, even in the demo they wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense ...
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Luize, Chiyuri, and whoever have no reason to be in UFO's plot just based on the backstory.
Trying to put them in would vaguely amount to ZUN writing bad fanfiction of his own games.
Well, I'm sure ZUN is perfectly capable of writing a backstory for which they would make sense. Mind you, even in the demo they wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense ...
Whale, let's try to sort this one out.
Let's say ZUN wanted to keep the plot continuous like he did with MoF. Now, it's not entirely implausible to suggest that Yumemi's Improbability Device or whatever it was could have been buried underground and brought up by the geyser. However, this begs the question of how it got there in the first place (just saying "improbability" doesn't count).
Then you have to bring in the question of how Luizeiyuri, Shinki, and presumably Yumemi (replacing Ichirin...? Nice demotion) would fit together, as neither of the PoDD duo has any business in Makai and the only two that know of each other are Chiyuri and Yumemi.
Or maybe ZUN didn't want to do strawberry cross danmaku. The world may never know. *shrug*
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Whale, let's try to sort this one out.
Let's say ZUN wanted to keep the plot continuous like he did with MoF. Now, it's not entirely implausible to suggest that Yumemi's Improbability Device or whatever it was could have been buried underground and brought up by the geyser. However, this begs the question of how it got there in the first place (just saying "improbability" doesn't count).
Then you have to bring in the question of how Luizeiyuri, Shinki, and presumably Yumemi (replacing Ichirin...? Nice demotion) would fit together, as neither of the PoDD duo has any business in Makai and the only two that know of each other are Chiyuri and Yumemi.
Or maybe ZUN didn't want to do strawberry cross danmaku. The world may never know. *shrug*
Well, if ZUN was trying to bring back Chiyuri and Yumemi while making sense, he wouldn't include Makai at all. You know, the UFO that we have right now is because ZUN wanted to use new characters. I'm sure he can change the story around if he wanted to use different characters than Captain, Syou, and Byakuren in the first place.
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Or maybe ZUN didn't want to do strawberry cross danmaku. The world may never know. *shrug*
yeah. i think we have enough HUGEmaku in this game with just Ichirin and CAPTAIN MURASA, we don't need giant crosses, too :V
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Whale, let's try to sort this one out.
Let's say ZUN wanted to keep the plot continuous like he did with MoF. Now, it's not entirely implausible to suggest that Yumemi's Improbability Device or whatever it was could have been buried underground and brought up by the geyser. However, this begs the question of how it got there in the first place (just saying "improbability" doesn't count).
Then you have to bring in the question of how Luizeiyuri, Shinki, and presumably Yumemi (replacing Ichirin...? Nice demotion) would fit together, as neither of the PoDD duo has any business in Makai and the only two that know of each other are Chiyuri and Yumemi.
Or maybe ZUN didn't want to do strawberry cross danmaku. The world may never know. *shrug*
Well, if ZUN was trying to bring back Chiyuri and Yumemi while making sense, he wouldn't include Makai at all. You know, the UFO that we have right now is because ZUN wanted to use new characters. I'm sure he can change the story around if he wanted to use different characters than Captain, Syou, and Byakuren in the first place.
Very good point. 'Didn't think of it that way.
Although I'm not really sure what room there is for the PoDD cast to come back anyway = (
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Although I'm not really sure what room there is for the PoDD cast to come back anyway = (
That's easy! Kana and Rikako and Kotohime (probably not Ellen, she's from a manga) could just make reappearances like Yuka when -- oh, wait, you meant Yumemi and Chiyuri? Well, the government (or whoever they were working for) could commission them to go back to Gensokyo for whatever reason ...
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seems relevant
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/thumb/2/2d/SMTIIAtavaka.png/300px-SMTIIAtavaka.png)
(http://i25.tinypic.com/24gls74.jpg)
Notice any similarities at all?
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Although I'm not really sure what room there is for the PoDD cast to come back anyway = (
That's easy! Kana and Rikako and Kotohime (probably not Ellen, she's from a manga) could just make reappearances like Yuka when -- oh, wait, you meant Yumemi and Chiyuri? Well, the government (or whoever they were working for) could commission them to go back to Gensokyo for whatever reason ...
From my ultra l33t interpretation of the PoDD endings (called reading the limited Japanese I know and actually being able to translate most of Marisa's ending but otherwise looking at the pictures), Yumemi got fired from her school after she came back. In some endings there's also a special part after the credits where Yumemi comes through the portal sobbing and Chiyuri following her, so it's safe to say they live in Gensokyo now...somewhere.