Koakuma's Writer's Parlour ~ Have some tea and discuss fiction and writing here!

[Iced Fairy]

So once again I figured I'd mention something that seems to affect a lot of fics in general, and this time it's something that just doesn't affect newer writers.  It's something that's a unique issue with fanfiction, characterizing your villains.

People read fanfiction because they want to see stories about the characters they enjoy, and sometimes different views on characters they aren't as interested in.  A lot of the people who sit down and read stories love Touhou, and they love the characters too.  Which is why they tend to get annoyed when they feel those characters are denigrated or misrepresented.

Characterization of course is always important.  Still, canon in Touhou is fairly loose, and even if you decide to go way off base well written and interesting characterization will make it likely people will stay around.  (Note I say interesting, not amusing.)  Most readers are willing to suspend their personal opinions and stick around to see where a story is going.  Especially if they like where the story is going.

However when you make an existing Touhou a villain, especially a serious villain, your audience is no longer going to give you the benefit of the doubt.  The readers are going to want to know why the character they loved has started kicking puppies.  And if the answer isn't REALLY good, not "This is how I see the character" but "this is a perfectly understandable mistake / reaction to circumstances," it's going to come off as poorly researched character assassination.  This isn't to say you should never write a fic where a Touhou character is the villain or antagonist.  But it's a whole lot harder, and you're probably going to hurt people's enjoyment of your work unless you pull it off perfectly.

How to do that?  Well in addition to getting a proofreader who will help with these things, I have a passable rule of thumb.  When you look back at the villainous Touhou's actions, would you be seriously tempted to do the same things they have?  If you can't answer yes, then you're probably wandering into dangerous territory.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

Usually, something like "lol possession by grimderp forces" or something that makes them not themselves can offset this, but it can come off as an excuse when poorly written.

The same principle goes for a character who isn't canonically an ass being an ass (...outside of Reimu...).

[CrowCakes]

On the subject of antagonists...

If I want my readers to sympathize with the antagonist, whose point of view should I focus more on, the pro- or the ant-? I've seen many emphasize with latter's point of view, but can I also use the protagonists' point of view to do the same thing? And is a deep reason always better than a shallow one?

[Esifex]

"lol possession by grimderp forces"

:ohdear: You've found my secret :ohdear:

No seriously that's usually my fall-back in my stories. My debut entry to MotK, Forsake the Future? Marisa pries into Alice's Grimoire and gets fucked up by it. My current arc in the Librarian Stories? Sentient Magic Tome possesses highly Psychic character. Fresh Faces in the Kaleidoscope? 'Possessed' - may not be the right word, but if you stretch it thin enough, it might get the job done - by a misplaced sense of righteous indignation. Bonus points for that one being written from the point of view of the antagonist.

* Esifex stops stroking own ego and shamelessly plugging stories

But yes, to be honest, an interesting villain/antagonist is really one of the few things that keeps me in a story; the other is good characterization and a fine attention to details. It's shortcomings in both departments that turn me away from a lot of the stories that I don't follow anymore.

[Iced Fairy]

On the subject of antagonists...

If I want my readers to sympathize with the antagonist, whose point of view should I focus more on, the pro- or the ant-? I've seen many emphasize with latter's point of view, but can I also use the protagonists' point of view to do the same thing? And is a deep reason always better than a shallow one?

If your protagonist similarly sympathizes with the antagonist it should be possible to use their view.  As for reasoning, a reasonable reason is the best.  Whether that reason is an understandable mistake or serious mental trauma is an exercise in writing.

[_cf]

However when you make an existing Touhou a villain, especially a serious villain, your audience is no longer going to give you the benefit of the doubt.  The readers are going to want to know why the character they loved has started kicking puppies.  And if the answer isn't REALLY good, not "This is how I see the character" but "this is a perfectly understandable mistake / reaction to circumstances," it's going to come off as poorly researched character assassination.  This isn't to say you should never write a fic where a Touhou character is the villain or antagonist.  But it's a whole lot harder, and you're probably going to hurt people's enjoyment of your work unless you pull it off perfectly.

How to do that?  Well in addition to getting a proofreader who will help with these things, I have a passable rule of thumb.  When you look back at the villainous Touhou's actions, would you be seriously tempted to do the same things they have?  If you can't answer yes, then you're probably wandering into dangerous territory.

Am I missing something here, or are you actually suggesting as a rule of thumb to reduce youkai, immortals and gods of a eastern setting to the same ethical and moral framework of a western human from the XXI century?

[Iced Fairy]

Am I missing something here, or are you actually suggesting as a rule of thumb to reduce youkai, immortals and gods of a eastern setting to the same ethical and moral framework of a western human from the XXI century?

The rules of society have changed, but emotions and desires have not.  Mokou's drive to kill Kaguya are hardly within the norms for western society, but getting revenge for your parents is understandable, and if properly written sympathetic.  However, if you can't convince yourself that you too could follow that path, you aren't going to convince your readers.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

:ohdear: You've found my secret :ohdear:

No seriously that's usually my fall-back in my stories. My debut entry to MotK, Forsake the Future? Marisa pries into Alice's Grimoire and gets fucked up by it. My current arc in the Librarian Stories? Sentient Magic Tome possesses highly Psychic character. Fresh Faces in the Kaleidoscope? 'Possessed' - may not be the right word, but if you stretch it thin enough, it might get the job done - by a misplaced sense of righteous indignation. Bonus points for that one being written from the point of view of the antagonist.

Yeah. Hell, in my story (that I'm rewriting, derp) where a bunch of shoot 'em up characters fought against Touhoes, the Touhou cast had been hijacked by some sort of evil force that basically turned them into flanderized grimdark versions of themselves (psychotic Koishi, Oni-Miko, amongst other things).

Also, if you ask me, most youkai, immortals, and gods of an eastern setting have the same ethical and moral framework of an eastern human from the XXI century. Granted, ZUN writing. >.> (Besides Okuu's wackoness and Koishi spouting out bullshit. I'm damn sure Koishi was being weird. Hell, if you want to go with "but youkai make death threats!", remember that Reimu and Marisa make similar threats during the games.) I mean, Mokou and Kaguya aren't weird about their morality, and Kanako and Suwako have been reasonable so far. (By reasonable, I mean plotting.)

Also, I'm disregarding everything from Inaba/Inaba as canon. :V

[_cf]

The rules of society have changed, but emotions and desires have not.  Mokou's drive to kill Kaguya are hardly within the norms for western society, but getting revenge for your parents is understandable, and if properly written sympathetic.  However, if you can't convince yourself that you too could follow that path, you aren't going to convince your readers.

This is frustrating to explain.

Let's see: Youkai have a drive to eat people. Gods have a drive to collect faith. Faeries have a drive to play pranks. They are not human beings, they only look the part. Yet, in Gensokyo, they all sit down and have a tea with Reimu after an incident is over. The cognitive dissonance this creates is, I feel, part of the Touhou series' charm. I mean, Remilia is both the vampire that sent a bloody mist over the entire country with a flick of her wrists AND the little girl who let Reimu

Spoiler:

grab and give her a nogging (or whatever ZUN tried to show there. I'm talking about the EoSD ReimuA ending)

. Yukari is both a terrifying elder being and the quirky girl that eats Reimu's food while the miko is away under her orders and then teases her about it. Rumia is a rather dense and innocent girl that flies with her arms spread because she misheard something about Christ, while thinking on the next human she'll eat and so on.

With this being said, I despise the "humans with funny ears/hats" mindset that's so prevalent on fantasy (which I believe is a big part of why fantasy isn't taken seriously as a genre). What's the point of writing stories about monsters if you're limiting yourself to human emotions and desires? These beings age differently, eat differently, sleep differently than us. Some of them don't do these things at all. Is it really a huge leap to conclude that they think differently?

(busy day here, so I'm concluding this post here. I want to write a lot more on the subject, however. This issue is a huge pet peeve of mine)

[Iced Fairy]

Let's see: Youkai have a drive to eat people. Gods have a drive to collect faith. Faeries have a drive to play pranks. They are not human beings, they only look the part. Yet, in Gensokyo, they all sit down and have a tea with Reimu after an incident is over. The cognitive dissonance this creates is, I feel, part of the Touhou series' charm. I mean, Remilia is both the vampire that sent a bloody mist over the entire country with a flick of her wrists AND the little girl who let Reimu

Spoiler:

grab and give her a nogging (or whatever ZUN tried to show there. I'm talking about the EoSD ReimuA ending)

. Yukari is both a terrifying elder being and the quirky girl that eats Reimu's food while the miko is away under her orders and then teases her about it. Rumia is a rather dense and innocent girl that flies with her arms spread because she , while thinking on the next human she'll eat and so on.

Here's the thing.  The details are different but the emotions that drive the story are the same.  Gods need faith or they die.  You as a human will never understand what it means to need faith, but you can understand the need to survive.  And that's the difference.  If you write Kanako as a villain who is doing what she must to survive as a goddess then her motivation is understandable.  If you simple handwave it with "because she's a god, and gods don't care about things we care about" you're just doing it wrong.

With this being said, I despise the "humans with funny ears/hats" mindset that's so prevalent on fantasy (which I believe is a big part of why fantasy isn't taken seriously as a genre). What's the point of writing stories about monsters if you're limiting yourself to human emotions and desires? These beings age differently, eat differently, sleep differently than us. Some of them don't do these things at all. Is it really a huge leap to conclude that they think differently.

If a writer can't explain the differences between humans and other races but instead leave it to the assumptions of the reader, they shouldn't be surprised when the readers assumption ends up being the writer doesn't care.  And honestly they'd be right.  If you feel that a youkai's habits will make them do something completely inhuman, you've obviously thought of a reason WHY that is true, and you'd best give that information to the audience.

And if that reasoning casts them in a bad light, expect it to receive a thorough investigation.

As an aside, I'm not sure a series that takes stuff from an animistic religion and makes them MORE human is the best place to fight against things being human like in fantasy.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

Also, I got the feeling that there were varying levels of how human-like a youkai is, raging from feral things to extremely human. It'd be like comparing chimps, gorillas, and cro-magnons/neanderthals/INSERT HUMANOID HERE to humans. Except that some chimps are rabid. And I forgot where I was going with this.

And do all of them want to eat humans?

In my opinion, fantasy isn't marginalized because it's "too human", it's marginalized because snobs will be snobs and bitch about anything fantastical or futuristic.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

"The Scarlet Devil Mansion is having another party/open house. (Y'know, the kind that happened in SSiB, or that one Maribel and Renko story in one of the CDs.) You get a chance to meet the Scarlet Devil herself,  in person, and you chat for a bit. She's rather polite and a bit charming, for the most part, and you do your best to be polite in return and you think you've given her a generally good impression of yourself. But from the human perspective, she isn't normal. She looks like a ten-year-old and acts like a haughty fortysomething noblewoman. And there's just something about her -- some gut instinct, some deep-lizard-brain reaction -- that tells you that one of the things she sees when she looks at you is 'lunch.' After all, that's what's flowing through your veins; she is a vampire. And if she were to decide that you should be her next meal, the only thing that would really stop her from drinking your blood until you died was the fact that she has the body of a ten-year-old, and is physically unable to drink enough to kill you."

Figured I'd throw this sort of thing together to fit into this discussion. Y'know, as an alternative to "she is evil, BLAHAHAHAHAHA"

[_cf]

Here's the thing.  The details are different but the emotions that drive the story are the same.  Gods need faith or they die.  You as a human will never understand what it means to need faith, but you can understand the need to survive.  And that's the difference.  If you write Kanako as a villain who is doing what she must to survive as a goddess then her motivation is understandable.  If you simple handwave it with "because she's a god, and gods don't care about things we care about" you're just doing it wrong.

Totally agreed here. Any kind of handwave is bad. That's why you research the material beforehand, etc. For instance, I'd like to write about the Scarlets past, so I started to read about Europe at the XVI century to see in what kind of world they did start their lives. Reading about when Yukari or Kanako were young is much more difficult. The japanese pre-history is a lot of patriotic myths and few facts. But what I'm finding is interesting, at least

If a writer can't explain the differences between humans and other races but instead leave it to the assumptions of the reader, they shouldn't be surprised when the readers assumption ends up being the writer doesn't care.  And honestly they'd be right.  If you feel that a youkai's habits will make them do something completely inhuman, you've obviously thought of a reason WHY that is true, and you'd best give that information to the audience.

And if that reasoning casts them in a bad light, expect it to receive a thorough investigation.

Oh well, alright. It took me about 3 posts out of me running around the criticism the judges addressed against my Yukari's characterization. I feel defeated for having to show what pulls the characters' strings. A great part of the fun I have reading a book is trying to figure what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe for writing fanfic the rules are actually different. So, let me talk about moustache twirling Yukari, at once:

Yukari loves Gensokyo. It's the realm she dearly created and maintained for centuries, both as a personal retreat, and also as a general haven for her endangered species. While she didn't start the creation process alone (the original Hakurei helped) she has poured a great deal of power and influence into the land, more than any other being. So, Yukari's mindset for me starts at the very understandable love for her land.

With this love in mind, let's see how nicely Yukari actually behaves when there's something threatens Gensokyo, by reading her story mode in Scarlet Weather Rapsody. Fans of whimsical, lulzy Yukari will be utterly disappointed as she dishes out a no-nonsense beating that starts with Reimu ("why isn't the shrine restored yet?") up to Tenshi. For more of the same, check Iku fight against her on the same game. That's the Yukari I'm writing about. The one nasty enough to resort to the playground tactic of saying what your opponent is saying, only in reverse, and you can't even get angry. Because she's right.

Then there's the Scarlet sisters. I don't believe I need to explain at length why Yukari has for them the same love she has for Tenshi and Utsuho. And yet, she's forced (by who? the canon isn't clear, and this is one of the parts the fandom must supply. My answer for that is "Yuugi") to endure the existence of all these people in HER land. How to deal with it? The only Yukari-like answer I can find is by not being nice to these people, whenever is convenient and fun to do. This can be done by using Remilia's kiddy's enthusiasm to send the vampire on a rocket to the moon, or by witholding Patchouli's presence in a council, where the magician could say something sensible that troubled her plans. (Patchouli, unlike Remilia, is a great observer and it's actually very intelligent). Is it petty? It's very petty. Is it evil? Yes, because the right thing is to forgive, but in Yukari's head, it's payback for the threat they are to Gensokyo.

I hope that this concludes the investigation as pertaining to that story.

As an aside, I'm not sure a series that takes stuff from an animistic religion and makes them MORE human is the best place to fight against things being human like in fantasy.

I for one plead guilty to thinking too hard about doujinshi shooting games about lolis in silly hats. Thing is, ZUN makes quite an effort on characterization, having released volumes of nothing but backstory. His writing, as seen directly in CiLR, is pretty keen on showing, for instance, that Mokou lives a completely alien life (because she doesn't need to eat, sleep, etc) but at the same time clings to Kaguya out of the very human need for company and acceptance. Likewise, every Remilia profile is basically a variation of: "This a terrible being of untold strength and power. Also, spoiled little girl." This is the cognitive dissonance I tried to show in the previous post and that I want to see on more stories. Remilia can flatten a building with her brain OR her brawn if she feels motivated, but she's also a kid who feels genuinely sad and lost if things are not going as she expected. Yukari is a combination of alien elder being/angry bitchy boss/imposing older sister. Ignoring any of these facets is, for me, demeaning to the original.

I'm all for gag-manga and general silliness, and I actually believe these all belong together in Touhou, and if possible in the same story.

And don't get me started on Eirin. If you guys read my fic and thought Yukari was bad, you'll gonna utterly hate what I do with miss Yagokoro.

Finally, the villains' bit: I don't believe in villains, period. I think that the most interesting stories are about people antagonizing each other without any obvious moral winners. I think Gensokyo is a pretty good setting for this kind of story, because it puts on the same pot a lot of quirky, bitchy, alien people all rubbing shoulders with each other. The "villain" in a Gensokyo story for me would be the entire human civilization (at least the ones who sent a war expedition to the moon) and even THEM would have a perfectly valid reason to antagonize the entire land of Gensokyo (there be monsters, kill them). It's just that I'd not want to change the POV to show their (ours) side.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

I think a "well that's just, like, your opinion, man" is warranted here, since there's 95843905843583045890 different interpretations to Yukari (hell, every damn character ever) and everyone could argue on which is more canonical. I doubt you'd appreciate me turning Yukari into an extremely silly trollish woman who never stops joking even when the situation is serious, or Eirin actually caring for (and protecting) the residents of Gensokyo, and we could argue on and on about which one is more canonical. And that's not diving into whether we take gag manga as absolute gospel.

...Also, Mokou being too lazy to eat or do anything isn't alien. Ask any nerd. :V

...Where's the Black Tewi image.

[_cf]

I think a "well that's just, like, your opinion, man" is warranted here, since there's 95843905843583045890 different interpretations to Yukari (hell, every damn character ever) and everyone could argue on which is more canonical. I doubt you'd appreciate me turning Yukari into an extremely silly trollish woman who never stops joking even when the situation is serious, or Eirin actually caring for (and protecting) the residents of Gensokyo, and we could argue on and on about which one is more canonical. And that's not diving into whether we take gag manga as absolute gospel.

...Also, Mokou being too lazy to eat or do anything isn't alien. Ask any nerd. :V

...Where's the Black Tewi image.

Can't really argue with ... uh, what again? I guess we can at least agree that Reisen, with her firearms affinity, is the most cannonical touhou.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

This.

[Iced Fairy]

Oh well, alright. It took me about 3 posts out of me running around the criticism the judges addressed against my Yukari's characterization. I feel defeated for having to show what pulls the characters' strings. A great part of the fun I have reading a book is trying to figure what's happening behind the scenes. Maybe for writing fanfic the rules are actually different.:

That was part of what I was trying to convey.  When you're writing fanfiction there is someone out there who loves the character more then you do, and who knows that character better then you do.  Your writing must stand up to their scrutiny.

So, let me talk about moustache twirling Yukari, at once

Yukari loves Gensokyo. It's the realm she dearly created and maintained for centuries, both as a personal retreat, and also as a general haven for her endangered species. While she didn't start the creation process alone (the original Hakurei helped) she has poured a great deal of power and influence into the land, more than any other being. So, Yukari's mindset for me starts at the very understandable love for her land.

With this love in mind, let's see how nicely Yukari actually behaves when there's something threatens Gensokyo, by reading her story mode in Scarlet Weather Rapsody. Fans of whimsical, lulzy Yukari will be utterly disappointed as she dishes out a no-nonsense beating that starts with Reimu ("why isn't the shrine restored yet?") up to Tenshi. For more of the same, check Iku fight against her on the same game. That's the Yukari I'm writing about. The one nasty enough to resort to the playground tactic of saying what your opponent is saying, only in reverse, and you can't even get angry. Because she's right.

Then there's the Scarlet sisters. I don't believe I need to explain at length why Yukari has for them the same love she has for Tenshi and Utsuho. And yet, she's forced (by who? the canon isn't clear, and this is one of the parts the fandom must supply. My answer for that is "Yuugi") to endure the existence of all these people in HER land. How to deal with it? The only Yukari-like answer I can find is by not being nice to these people, whenever is convenient and fun to do. This can be done by using Remilia's kiddy's enthusiasm to send the vampire on a rocket to the moon, or by witholding Patchouli's presence in a council, where the magician could say something sensible that troubled her plans. (Patchouli, unlike Remilia, is a great observer and it's actually very intelligent). Is it petty? It's very petty. Is it evil? Yes, because the right thing is to forgive, but in Yukari's head, it's payback for the threat they are to Gensokyo.

I hope that this concludes the investigation as pertaining to that story.

Hm...  I think in trying to combine five different critiques into one something was lost.  Allow me to clarify.

Your setup for why Yukari didn't like Remilia was well done.  And while some of the other judges and I disagree with most of the steps in your personal canon, you presented your variant history correctly, allowing me to follow your reasoning.

The reason your Yukari got panned was because she didn't just act like a huge bitch to Remilia.  It was because she was acting like a huge bitch in general, to her own detriment.  Half of her little games actually work against her end goal, given Remilia would normally support the matter.  Her needlessly brutal treatment of Keine drew a lot of ire as well, and at no point do we see, the Yukari from the manga or games.  Those were the points that needed explaining.

And, yes, there's an amount of opinion here.  But if you don't carefully cultivate the ground to make your opinion look reasonable and flow smoothly, you turn your fic into an clash of ideas.  And that doesn't help tell a story.

I for one plead guilty to thinking too hard about doujinshi shooting games about lolis in silly hats. Thing is, ZUN makes quite an effort on characterization, having released volumes of nothing but backstory. His writing, as seen directly in CiLR, is pretty keen on showing, for instance, that Mokou lives a completely alien life (because she doesn't need to eat, sleep, etc) but at the same time clings to Kaguya out of the very human need for company and acceptance. Likewise, every Remilia profile is basically a variation of: "This a terrible being of untold strength and power. Also, spoiled little girl." This is the cognitive dissonance I tried to show in the previous post and that I want to see on more stories. Remilia can flatten a building with her brain OR her brawn if she feels motivated, but she's also a kid who feels genuinely sad and lost if things are not going as she expected. Yukari is a combination of alien elder being/angry bitchy boss/imposing older sister. Ignoring any of these facets is, for me, demeaning to the original

In this case I think we're having a disconnect on what human is, and what a human can understand.  That's a philosophical point worthy of a focused discussion, but kind of an aside.

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

It's also Touhou and not a horrifying fairy tale of old. ZUN's youkai aren't meant to be faithful to whatever evil eldritch things historical youkai were, like modern fairy tales.

[Momijibot]

Just to check:

Would written out touhou rap battles come under this section or Sara's section?

[Dead Princess Sakana]

It's fiction, so it would be in here I think? The other choice would not be Sara's, but the Addict Recovery Center.

[_cf]

It's also Touhou and not a horrifying fairy tale of old. ZUN's youkai aren't meant to be faithful to whatever evil eldritch things historical youkai were, like modern fairy tales.

<==== (points to Avatar pic)

With everything said, I think funny and adventure trump drama or horror any day of the week.

Also, thanks for the black Tewi link. If I knew this link beforehand, I'd not have to write so much here.

"The Scarlet Devil Mansion is having another party/open house. (Y'know, the kind that happened in SSiB, or that one Maribel and Renko story in one of the CDs.) You get a chance to meet the Scarlet Devil herself,  in person, and you chat for a bit. She's rather polite and a bit charming, for the most part, and you do your best to be polite in return and you think you've given her a generally good impression of yourself. But from the human perspective, she isn't normal. She looks like a ten-year-old and acts like a haughty fortysomething noblewoman. And there's just something about her -- some gut instinct, some deep-lizard-brain reaction -- that tells you that one of the things she sees when she looks at you is 'lunch.' After all, that's what's flowing through your veins; she is a vampire. And if she were to decide that you should be her next meal, the only thing that would really stop her from drinking your blood until you died was the fact that she has the body of a ten-year-old, and is physically unable to drink enough to kill you."

Figured I'd throw this sort of thing together to fit into this discussion. Y'know, as an alternative to "she is evil, BLAHAHAHAHAHA"

Also, the little noblewoman has distressingly real, large, black bat wings attached to some point of her back (her dress elegantly hides the point of attachment of her wings under a fold of satin).

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

Your avatar still gives me nightmares.

[Bias Bus]

I dunno, I think Byaku!Snuffy is kinda cute~

[_cf]

Your avatar still gives me nightmares.

Yours is from a rather bleak piece of fic. If I'm remembering it right

Spoiler:

it's the one where Remilia vampirizes Reimu, destroying the maiden's mind in the process.

I thought about changing my avatar, but I'm still looking for one who tops the current one. I'll probably look forever O_o;

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

Yeah, it is. And then

Spoiler:

Remilia realizes this too late and breaks down into tears.

Eh, I always found Asatsuki Dou's work to be hilariously overwrought and unintentionally funny rather than sadly dramatic. I mean, come on, in another doujin,

Spoiler:

REIMU IS DYING OF MAGIC AIDS FROM YUKARI AND RAN KILLS HER, OLD STYLE!!11ONE

He's got some weird thing for yuri tragedy cliches. Also, I needed a "why do you do this" face for an avatar.

His parodies and comedy are better.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

I needed a "why do you do this" face for an avatar.

Which brings up the question: why do you do this?

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

Same reason why anyone does anything: for the lulz.

I think.

[Esifex]

[TAKE IT CACODEMON!!]

[Mr. Sacchi]

Uh, so, last reply was like a month ago, but since this isn't locked and is a sticky, I guess I can post here no probs(Unless the generic help for fanfiction thread changed since last time I asked for help :derp:)

Anyway, I just need a few tips for a story I'm starting to write, the story is a one-shot, very, very, VERY LONG fighting scene between two gensokyans, both of them have very evenly matched powers, I also have two observers during the story.

Both fighters have a trump card, Fighting Girl 1# does not know about Fighting Girl 2#'s trump card, however, while Fighting Girl 2# knows of Fighting Girl 1#'s trump card.

Also, this ISN'T a danmaku fight, it's more like an all-out duel to the death, or something, both of them are allowed to use magic, physical attacks, danmaku or whathaveyou.

I just need some general tips on this story, as most of it is already laid out, I'm really concerned about the observers though, I have no idea what to do with them :V