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Archive for older threads. They won't be deleted.
Miscellaneous Questions Thread #1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,3947.0.html)
Miscellaneous Questions Thread #2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8344.0.html)
Miscellaneous Questions Thread #3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13761.0.html)
※ Welcome to the Miscellaneous Questions thread! ※
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In this thread, ask for the sources of doujinshi pages, artist sites and pixiv pages, original versions of edited images, meanings of internet memes, and anything else you can think of. Questions like "HOW DO I BEAT THIS SPELLCARD (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6504.0.html)?? or "WHAT IS THIS VIDEO PARODYING (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=179.0)?" and such are all more than welcome here (better yet, in their respective specialized threads). We do artist sourcing, music identifying, you name it. Even if it doesn't have to do directly with Touhou, please ASK HERE rather than creating an entirely new thread for it.
Useful Links: PLEASE CHECK THESE BEFORE ASKING
- http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki - For questions about Touhou overall.
- http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Category:Characters - For questions about a Touhou character such as ?Why is Reimu always flashing her armpits??
- http://iqdb.org/ or http://iqdb.hanyuu.net/ - Image search sites. Use these to find cleaner or higher resolution versions of certain images, or the artist of a certain picture.
- Bug Report Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=46.0) - Ask here if the forums are acting strange for you.
- Danmakufu Guide (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=18.0) - Links to the wonderful folks over at Rika's Garage, who will be more than glad to help you out. (And chances are that if you've come here for Danmakufu help, you've already found your way there anyway.)
- General help thread on how to play Touhou (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8241.0.html), courtesy of Sapz.
If those sites and links fail to give what you are looking for, then please post your query here. If you as a question at one point and it doesn't get answered in a significant span of time, please don't hesitate to ask again. We may not have been able to answer the question at that time, but our knowledge has likely changed since then. If you feel that your question is being ignored, rest assured that it is not; we simply do not have an answer for you.
Also, no question is too stupid to ask. Here, we will answer you truthfully and without trolling. These boards have active moderators, and people who lie in their answers will be dealt with.
The same rules apply here as they do to the board at large, of course: No links to game downloads (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6593.0.html), no warez, etc etc. You know the drill (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=17.0).
A helpful community is worth endless gold. Thank you for showing your time and effort and helping out each other.
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Picking up from last thread:
>"Crown Princess" in wiki translation
I agree with all the smart posts in the last thread. Still, someone should change the wiki back to "Crown Prince".
1) Let the ambiguous stay ambiguous;
2) there have been many crown princes of Japan, but Shoutoku was so famous that the title "Crown Prince" has become synonymous with him.
>an old debate:
female fireflies don't fly; "there's even a doujin song where Wriggle wishes she's more feminine like those who can't fly"
Female fireflies of some species don't fly. The most iconic firefly species in Japan, "Genji firefly" belongs to the genus luciola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciola). Their females can fly. Also, that song sounds like an awful idea.
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It's actually kind of funny that my dictionary lists "Prince Shotoku" as one of the definitions of 太子.
Anyway, on the wiki there's been some discussion over whether or not the title is technically masculine in the first place. Apparently there's been at least one Princess to use that title at some point, but the example given was Vietnamese rather than Japanese so I'm not entirely convinced about how relevant that is. "Crown Princess" really bugs me though. I'd rather call her something generic like "Your Highness" than emphasize her femininity in her title.
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I think saying Crown Prince emphasizes the disconnect between history and reality so I think it's witty and apt to use Prince regardless of what the term actually implies.
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Eh, hello everybody! I've been lurking for a bit, but never really got my act together until now. It's great to see this board running strong!
Anyway, a quick question.
So: Is a youkai a youkai in Gensokyo because it eats humans, or because it attacks humans? I mean we have Rumia the Man-Eating Youkai, and people from the outside world who slip across the boarder tend to be lunch (for Remilia, I think?) But then we also have that bit in the spell card rules that says youkai are youkai because they attack humans, and not specifically eat them, if I remember correctly. (Of course, a part of me cannot help but wonder if Reimu would really be tolerant of so many youkai if they were obviously eating people...)
Thanks!
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Eh, hello everybody! I've been lurking for a bit, but never really got my act together until now. It's great to see this board running strong!
Anyway, a quick question.
So: Is a youkai a youkai in Gensokyo because it eats humans, or because it attacks humans? I mean we have Rumia the Man-Eating Youkai, and people from the outside world who slip across the boarder tend to be lunch (for Remilia, I think?) But then we also have that bit in the spell card rules that says youkai are youkai because they attack humans, and not specifically eat them, if I remember correctly. (Of course, a part of me cannot help but wonder if Reimu would really be tolerant of so many youkai if they were obviously eating people...)
Thanks!
It's usually generalized to "attack" but honestly it depends on the youkai. Quite a few of them are harmless or benevolent, like yamabiko and hakutaku (Kyouko and Keine). Mostly what they have to do is fulfill the expectations of the human beliefs that gave birth to them. If people are afraid of a monster that eats people then they'll have to eat people, but if people want an explanation for how echoes happen in mountains then they just need to make a lot of noise. Not needing to eat people doesn't mean their harmless though, since Murasa needs to drown people (or at least try to).
Incidentally, "Eat" is also defined broadly, since Kogasa surprising people apparently counts as eating them as she is sustained by their emotions.
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Random question:
How the heck did Yukkuris spread and get popular?
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Spread? Like most 2ch memes do, it was hilarious.
Get popular? Artists getting a hold of them.
When did it go wrong, you ask? When people started giving them various individual characteristics and turned it into its own poor derivative of the fandom, rather than keep it as a casual joke meshed together with the rest; and then later again when some decided torturing and killing them in grotesque ways and the like was actually a good long-term idea.
The more well-thought-out ploys that spawned the trend were decent and worth a laugh (in the beginning), but then people started taking it seriously and they swiftly became this sort of easy outlet for some of the more deranged people to get their kicks.
If you're just talking about their history, the wiki has a page on it (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukkuri), but most of the stuff beyond the first section is filled with the sort of drivel that's taken it over.
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Random question:
How the heck did Yukkuris spread and get popular?
If this is related to the Yukkuri thread you started, you should maybe read the links people post in your thread (http://shii.org/yukkuri/genesis).
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Can someone tell me in more details what the mysterious strange occurrence of chap 10 of CoLA was really about (appearing of body part)?
- Also did Reimu really watch her hands at the end of the chapter?
Chapter 11 of CoLA
……眼が慣れてきた。ここは、この見覚えのある鳥居は……神社なのか？ 神社に大勢の人がいる……。
...My eyes were becoming accustomed to the light. This archway here was something I recognized... Is this a shrine? And there "(are are?)" great number of people here too...
- Is that a mistake, just asking?
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Back when ZUN still gave detailed answers to people's questions (those things can be found on wiki, untranslated), someone asked him about that chapter: did this chapter mean he was opposed to artificial (and cloned) limbs? ZUN said his understanding was correct, but the opinion was Rinnosuke's, not his, though his opinion might be similar to Rinnosuke's.
There's no doubt Rinnosuke was ZUN's self-insert character. So this chapter did reflect his view at the time of its writing: he was against medical cloning, and perhaps even synthetic limbs. Of course it's impossible to know if he has changed his stances since then.
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- Is that a mistake, just asking?
what mistake i don't see a mistake
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The way her power works is first she finds the points on the objects which have the most tension built into it (referenced as "eyes) and pouring her power into them. Then she can move the "eyes" into her hand and crush the "eyes" by clenching her fist, destoying the object.
I don't think that is the case. The "eye" of the object in question is always on her right hand. She doesn't really have find any weak points on the object in question.
On Suika, she didn't actually shatter the Moon, as the Moon people in Gensokyo see int he sky is actually the reflection of the real Moon. What she did was she shattered the heaven to make it look like she broke the moon.
My interpretation is that she did shatter the moon. She didn't shatter the true moon, the one that the Lunarians live in, but the fake moon, the one that you see in the "real world". In either case, she pieced it together, so it doesn't really matter.
Was the fact that Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir mentioned in any of her profiles? No. Besides, waving SoPM around as an evidence that Akyuu doesn't mention anything about the matter is just as doubtful. I mean, it's Akyuu...
I am confused at how this is even related. The fact is that there is no conclusive evidence stating Eirin drank the Hourai elixir. There is supporting evidence by dialogue, but not conclusive evidence.
SoPM evidence and any evidence Akyuu presents is as good as any evidence you will see in the games. I'm not sure why you mention it's Akyuu as if it is bad evidence.
If Akyuu provides incorrect evidence, you will know it. She mentions so in the dialogue.
As for Miko's gender, please refer to cuc's post. The japanese text refers to Miko as female. The Japanese language can easily be ambigious on this, but it used the female pronoun, so that is something you need to consider. What I mean is instead of using "that girl", Zun could have easily used "that person", but the word choice is there.
@Shotoku: I would also rather see the wiki change Crown Princess back to Crown Prince. I understand this can cause confusion, but I think this would most accurately describe Miko.
Can someone tell me in more details what the mysterious strange occurrence of chap 10 of CoLA was really about (appearing of body part)?
Also did Reimu really watch her hands at the end of the chapter?
What are you trying to ask?
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srry I mean wash not watch.
- Also did Reimu really wash her hands at the end of chapter 10 in CoLA?
神社に大勢の人がいる??。 - And there "(are are?)" great number of people here too...
Also that one in chapter 17 CoLA
霊夢は疑問に思ったことがないのかい? - ?(Haevn't) you ever thought about that, Reimu?
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I fixed the "are are", sorry if I didn't make that clear. I fixed the "haevn't" as well. In the future, if you see such an obvious mistake you can edit the wiki yourself, you know.
Anyways, Reimu says she washed her hands, but Rinnosuke points out that she's been with them the whole time; Reimu then asks Marisa for more tea, and Marisa exclaims she already gave her some.
Reimu just poured her tea over her hands.
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Playing SMT4 then I came across with this demon called Koga Saburo, then I look at his description :
Koga Saburo (甲賀三郎) is the main character from the classic Japanese fantasy Suwa Engi (諏訪縁起) which was collected in Shintoshu (神道集). He was lost in the underworld which turned his body into a snake. After his return to the ground, he was worshiped as the patron god of Suwa Shrine. In some record, Koga Saburo was regarded the same as Mishaguji and Take-Minakata.
He? Mishaguji? Does that mean that he is Suwako's husband or something?
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In Touhou, Mishaguji is described only as being Suwako's servant, and nothing more.
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Playing SMT4 then I came across with this demon called Koga Saburo, then I look at his description :
He? Mishaguji? Does that mean that he is Suwako's husband or something?
That sounds more like he's the base for Suwako, if anything.
Which reminds me, how does the actual Suwa myth sound anyway? I only knew these:
- The Amatsukami (the Heaven gods) want to rule a certain area of the Kunitsukami (the Earth gods), I forgot which area.
- Japan back then was ruled by the Earth god Oukuninushi/Daikokuten (y'know, the guy Tewi and the rabbits worship)
- The Amatsukami sent Take-Mikazuchi, and the Kunitsukami sent Oukuninushi's son Take-Minakata. They had a match and Take-Minakata lost.
- Take-Minakata fled to the Suwa region where he married the Suwa goddess Yasaka-tome.
There are obvious parallels to Kanako and Suwako's backstory here. Heaven god want to rule a region ruled by a native god and the native god lost. That would make Kanako = Take-Mikazuchi and Suwako = Take-Minakata. But then there's the part about Suwa region, where in Touhouverse is the area being fought for instead of where the loser fled to, and Yasaka-tome, where Kanako got her last name from. I wonder if there's any more we can find from the original myth.
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The dialogue between Yukari and Toyohime near the end of SSiB seems to suggest that the lunarians sealed Take-Minakata inside the Moriya Shrine through two thick shimenawas because they feared his retribution for conquering his father Daikoku's lands, which would suggest that he's a separate deity. However, considering that Yasakatome is Take-Minakata's wife in the original myths, and how Kanako and Suwako are allies in the touhouverse, maybe Take-Minakata really is just another name for Suwako. She is noted as basically never leaving the shrine, IIRC.
since this implies that the lunarians fear the cute loli frog of all people i'll be accepting this as canon ok? ok :V
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Lunarians have odd phobias. While they have no problems squashing an army of youkai, a few unarmed astronauts landing on the Moon was enough for them to record the event as a war and the faliures of Apollo missions as defeat. It was so alarming to them, that it made Reisen flee to Earth from the Watatsukis.
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Part of that is Lunarians having odd phobias, another is moon rabbits being gossips who exaggerate a lot.
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Topic: Magicians. I asked a question on the IRC and while trying to learn the answer, we ended up dredging up a ton of confusion on this subject.
So the PMiSS article on the wiki is a little confusing about some things. First of all, magicians are Youkai, whatever that exactly means. Second, there are two kinda of magicians, those who are born as magicians and humans who become magicians.
Right off the bat. Since when are youkai "born"? I found it an odd choice of words since I always figured they sorta fade into existence.
Third, born magicians aren't actually magicians until they learn "abandon temper" to become ageless.
Why would they need to learn "abandon temper"? If they are youkai aren't they already ageless?
Fourth, for a human to turn into a magician they have to learn "abandon food".
Alright, fine. Does the human also need to learn "abandon temper"? "Abandon temper" almost seems more important.
At the beginning of all of this are my more fundamental question. What happens when Magicians "die"? I imagine, the answer is the same as "What happens when youkai "die"", and I don't know the answer to that either. Of similar importance, what happens when a human becomes a magician and, by extension, a youkai? Finally at the core of it all, what is a youkai?
For the fundamental questions, I think I'm happy with my own answers, unless there just is canon answer that I overlooked.
I've thought about it, and here is what I came up with. I'm going with the definition that youkai are the little things people currently use to fill in the knowledge we don't have. Why are we afraid of the dark, because something is going to get us, and that something is Rumia. I think that's accurate enough. It fits the question "Why is this person not aging or need food?". The answer is that this person is a magician and uses magic.
Finally, my explanation for the transformation from human to youkai is because once the human is, according to PMiSS, "powered by magic" their abilities become so shrouded in mystery, their magic becomes so incomprehensible and unintuitive, that onlookers rationalize their existence as a youkai, causing the human to become a youkai.
EDIT: Note that my answers to the fundamental questions don't address the other questions above. Youkai being "born" still sounds weird, abandon temper still seems unnecessary for born magicians, abandon temper still seems necessary for once-human magicians.
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Well, I guess magician-born magicians learn a spell to abandon temper, while human ones learn a spell to abandon food.
This allows them to stop aging, becoming full magicians. That's what I got from the entry.
Also, about magicians being born, I'm guessing that it's the same way as humans are formed.
Magicians are different from general youkai, I guess.
Same for dying, maybe?
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Those who were born as magicians, from the start, are only able to use magic, and just like humans, they grow, age, and have a limited lifespan.
Then, when they learn "abandon temper" magic (*2), they become long-lived, complete magicians.
In the case of those who were originally human, in continuing their study of magic, it is when they learn "abandon food" magic (*3) that they become magicians.
After that, it's the same as for normal magicians.
Like it says in the article, magicians age like humans until they learn the proper magic to stop their growth. So magicians -> "abandon temper" -> complete magicians.
Humans learn "abandon food" to become magicians, and then from that point they're just like normal magicians. So humans -> "abandon food" -> magicians -> "abandon temper" -> complete magicians.
When it says "those who are born as magicians", the line can also be translated as "those who are magicians by nature". Dunno if that helps. It's impossible for me to explain the mechanics behind youkai coming into existence so I like to imagine they just sort of spontaneously appear.
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"Youkai" is a very, very generic term; for instance, an oni and a karakasa ghost are nothing alike, yet both are called youkai. Just because something is true for a large variety of them doesn't mean it's something that ALL of them have. If human imagination first defined magicians as being able to be born and age like normal humans, then that's how they are. Doesn't matter that other youkai don't age. Also, as an aside, we know that such things as a youkai egg exist (the Three Faeries found one), so some species must be able to reproduce in a biological sense (Or maybe that thing was a literal youkai egg. As in, a youkai that has the shape of an egg).
Humans becoming youkai isn't really that uncommon (were-creatures, hermits, being healed by the Ibaraki-box [turns you into an oni]...); I don't think the human loses its soul when such a thing happens. And as for what happens to a youkai when it dies, I still think that it gets judged and sent to an afterlife. Eiki goes around lecturing youkai, which I don't think she'd bother to do if they couldn't be sent to a bad afterlife, and she does mentions to Cirno that if she ever ends up permanently dying, she will be judged; if even a fairy gets an afterlife, I don't see why youkai wouldn't.
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"Even if I die I'll just be reborn, and if I can't be reborn I'll be fine as a phantom." That's their line of reasoning. Rather than that, what they're scared of is their existence being denied completely.
Miko, SoPM, part 5
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If you think about it though, why would they care about their existence being denied after they're reborn? Unless the coincidentally get reborn as the same kind of youkai over and over again, which I'm pretty sure defeats the purpose of reincarnation. I suppose fading out of existence destroys their soul in a way that dying doesn't? And also not in the "Shortcut to Nirvana" sense that other soul-killers in the series are usually described as.
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However, considering that Yasakatome is Take-Minakata's wife in the original myths, and how Kanako and Suwako are allies in the touhouverse, maybe Take-Minakata really is just another name for Suwako. She is noted as basically never leaving the shrine, IIRC.
Suwako visited Eientei in Inaba of the Earth and Inaba of the Moon. She smacked Reisen silly and got stomped by Kaguya.
I suppose fading out of existence destroys their soul in a way that dying doesn't? And also not in the "Shortcut to Nirvana" sense that other soul-killers in the series are usually described as.
That is probably the case.
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Suwako visited Eientei in Inaba of the Earth and Inaba of the Moon. She smacked Reisen silly and got stomped by Kaguya.
I know that she appeared outside of the shirine; I said "pratically never", not "never ever" :P
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I think how youkai reproduce differ for each species. Youkai are largely defined by human imagination, so if the humans think some youkai can reproduce sexually, then they can. If they think some youkai just fade into existence, then so do they. If they think some humans are actually youkai, then they might turn into youkai. The line between human and youkai is kinda blurry anyway. Ichirin was human, but she became youkai due to people fearing her hanging around Unzan too much.
And regarding my previous question...maybe Kanako is really Yasakatome and she married Take-Minakata before he was sealed. It would make her conquest of the Moriya Shrine happen earlier before Take-Minakata arrived at Suwa. Is it stated anywhere that Yasakatome was a Amatsukami or a Kunitsukami? And alternate theory would be that either Kanako or Suwako is a remnant of Take-Minakata. Like some part of him that escaped being sealed.
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Has ZUN ever mentioned who the characters on the music cd covers are?
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The girl in Dolls in Pseudo Paraside is unnamed. The rest of the music CDs (not counting in game game soundtrack CDs and the extra CDs) feature Renko Usami and Maribel Hearn.
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Hi!
Just a question that has bugged me quite a bit for now: Is there any such thing like a Touhou-themed horror game?
<Tengukami> Yo! Miscellaneous questions = Miscellaneous questions thread!
I am admittedly not too bad with horror myself, and am having trouble to get into the genre, so I thought trying something that is tied to my interest for Touhou might work. I know there has been an Amnesia mod based on EoSD in the making, but the project seems dead... anything there to recommend?
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Does anyone have any idea what the actual age of the 9th generation of Child of Miare - Akyu have at present? 20 - 23?
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Does anyone have any idea what the actual age of the 9th generation of Child of Miare - Akyu have at present? 20 - 23?
19.
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I think how youkai reproduce differ for each species. Youkai are largely defined by human imagination, so if the humans think some youkai can reproduce sexually, then they can. If they think some youkai just fade into existence, then so do they. If they think some humans are actually youkai, then they might turn into youkai. The line between human and youkai is kinda blurry anyway. Ichirin was human, but she became youkai due to people fearing her hanging around Unzan too much.
How can yokai, or anyone at all, in the Touhou World, reproduce sexually? Men doesn't exist! (or am I wrong, if so, please correct me)
Maybe there is something that no one knows about...
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How can yokai, or anyone at all, in the Touhou World, reproduce sexually? Men doesn't exist! (or am I wrong, if so, please correct me)
Maybe there is something that no one knows about...
Men exist in Touhou. We just don't meet very many of them through contrived coincidence. The most recent and obvious example would be the background characters in Hopeless Masquerade's village stage (and maybe some other stages too), but they've always existed as background characters in all the side materials. Furthermore, sometimes characters have specific relationships with males in their lives (Marisa's father, for example) which exist despite never actually meeting the other half.
Oh yeah, and Rinnosuke I guess.
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And Unzan too, we can't be forgetting him y'know.
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While technically true, in the context of the question it's unclear if cloud people can reproduce sexually at all.
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The existence of half-youkai and half-ghosts is another hint. Although I'm not sure how a ghost would be able to bear a child.
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Hoho, the piled up questions.
>Kanako and mythology
I've been recently investigating this topic again. I promised somebody to write about it, so I'll post it here when I get it done.
>Akyuu's age is 19
It's a bit more complicated than that.
According to Akyuu, this (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Bunbunmaru_Newspaper) newspaper article from 1994 is a story "about my birth". But look at the newspaper photo, and you can clearly see Akyuu in it is not a newborn baby; she should be at very least 4 or 5 years old. Why is that so?
Also consider that, Akyuu said in "Memorizing Gensokyo", the short manga accompanying PMiSS that she had "lived as the Ninth Child of Miare for less than 9 years" at the time of "Memorizing Gensokyo".
The implication is, Akyuu was physically born a few years before 1994, and in 1994, something happened, turning her into the full Child of Miare, with its memory and ability.
As for precisely what this something is, my friend thinks the spirit of Miare has come to her, and I think she has awakened her latent power as Child of Miare.
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According to Akyuu, this newspaper article from 1994 is a story "about my birth". But look at the newspaper photo, and you can clearly see Akyuu in it is not a newborn baby; she should be at very least 4 or 5 years old. Why is that so?
It could be just as you say, that her Child of Miare spirit has awoken in 1994. That, or the girl in the photo is Hieda no Aya. As a sort of "preview" of how the next child of Miare will look like when she grows up. I'd even say the girl in the photo looks older than the Akyuu we saw in Memorizable Gensokyo and WaHH.
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Hieda no Aya lived over a hundred years ago. While they did have photography back then, it was of the sort that required people to sit still for a long time and would likely have been a formal portrait rather than the "quick shot while she's in the middle of something" style shown here. Unless we assume magic tengu camera, I guess. Even then it feels kind of weird though because it implies that Shameimaru Aya saved a picture from a hundred years ago just for this article.
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If not the previous Are Maiden, then perhaps Akyuu's mother is who we see. They photographed the happenings of the celebration and not the baby directly. In the article, Akyuu literally states "The newspaper article released at my birth. " So by "birth" she either means the rite of passage of becoming a full-fledged Child of Miare, or she really was born in 109.
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If not the previous Are Maiden, then perhaps Akyuu's mother is who we see. They photographed the happenings of the celebration and not the baby directly. In the article, Akyuu literally states "The newspaper article released at my birth. " So by "birth" she either means the rite of passage of becoming a full-fledged Child of Miare, or she really was born in 109.
The original work (the newspaper frontpage) is actually fairly unambiguous in its intention, both in and out of universe: it's a portrait of the smart and confident newly born Child of Miare. For alternate interpretations to be true, one would have to assume the original work to be actively misleading (rather than merely "ambiguous") in conveying its message. By common sense, both in and out of universe, if the woman in the photo is the mother, she should be depicted in a way that implies her identity, such as carrying her baby.
BTW, in Shinto and Japanese culture, pregnant women or women who have recently given birth are considered unclean (kegare, same concept translated as "impurity" in the SSiB translation), and are not allowed in Shinto shrines. Gensokyo doesn't have to work this way, but that would make Gensokyo such an exception that the author would have to specifically direct the reader's attention to it.
Someone has asked me this question about Kokoro's last line in some campaigns (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hopeless_Masquerade/Story/Futo%27s_Scenario#Stage_7):
I don't quite get why in Japanese says the Noh of Darkness, but just above that it reads something entirely different. Is it an alternate reading? The actual pronunciation or something like that?
I think this question is of general interest, so I'll answer it here.
An important feature of the Japanese language is that its writing system combines the phonetic kana (hiragana and katakana), and the borrowed Chinese characters (kanji). The same kanji (or combination of kanjis) can have several different phonetic pronunciations, and for various reasons, such as education, or particularly obscure words, it may be necessary to adage kanji with smaller print of kana as reading aid (furigana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana)).
Some writers have turned this into a rhetoric technique, by arbitrarily assigning the sound of one word to another word ("ateji"), creating a combination that's written as A, but read as B, to produce various effects, and lyrics often replace words with synonyms for the purpose of rhyme. ZUN actually uses it a fair amount in his writing; the difference is that previous translations tended to smooth those cases over, while the translatiors of HM has chosen to retain them this time.
ZUN generally uses ateji to turn a line into two versions: one spoken version that may flow more naturally, and one written version that is a more complete expression of meaning.
An earlier example: Orin's line as SA Stage 6 midboss:
地獄の底（ここら）で死ぬとみんな焼けて灰すら残らない
Literal translation: "Anyone who dies at the bottom of hell (here) will burn and leave no ashes."
Wiki translation: "If you die around here, you'll burn so hard there won't even be ashes left."
The idea is that Orin actually said "here". But a player will see "the bottom of hell" first, getting a good impression of the meaning of the line, then see "here", and understand that's what Orin said.
For the line about "Dark Noh": Kokoro actually said "My arcane art, Monkey Possession!" But the player will see "My arcane art, Noh of Darkness!" first, then notice the "Monkey Possession" part, and understand this is a Dark Noh technique called "Monkey Possession".
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ateji
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternateCharacterReading
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I am looking for a certain specific chapter in one of the touhou manga by Zun those name I forget but I think there was Marisa who stole a seal book from Patchouli library and Reimu manage to break up the seal somehow by using her power and then I forgot...
Anyone have any idea what Touhou manga that may be?
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Oriental Sacred Place, Chapter 15
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The original work (the newspaper frontpage) is actually fairly unambiguous in its intention, both in and out of universe: it's a portrait of the smart and confident newly born Child of Miare. For alternate interpretations to be true, one would have to assume the original work to be actively misleading (rather than merely "ambiguous") in conveying its message. By common sense, both in and out of universe, if the woman in the photo is the mother, she should be depicted in a way that implies her identity, such as carrying her baby.
The girl looks far from a newborn. If the girl in the photo is Akyuu, then why does she look older in 1994 than in 2006? Notice the longer hair. In memorizable Gensokyo, Akyuu looks like a pre-teen child. Well, she technically is 12 if we consider the article's release date as the date of Akyuu's biological birth. If the birth of Are maiden was a mere ceremony, then there should be some mention of that in the canonical materials. And if the girl in the picture is not Akyuu, it should be mentioned too.
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The girl looks far from a newborn. If the girl in the photo is Akyuu, then why does she look older in 1994 than in 2006? Notice the longer hair. In memorizable Gensokyo, Akyuu looks like a pre-teen child. Well, she technically is 12 if we consider the article's release date as the date of Akyuu's biological birth. If the birth of Are maiden was a mere ceremony, then there should be some mention of that in the canonical materials. And if the girl in the picture is not Akyuu, it should be mentioned too.
I don't think it's a good idea to compare drawings from different authors to draw conclusions about character's age, instead of looking at them more carefully separately. If you look at newspaper article picture, Akyuu holds an adult's hand, which is clearly bigger. She does look like she's 4 years old there. In Memorizable Gensokyo, she is only a bit shorter that Reimu and Marisa, so she's in her early-mid teens. As for hair length, nothing prevents her from getting a haircut, duh.
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I don't think it's a good idea to compare drawings from different authors to draw conclusions about character's age, instead of looking at them more carefully separately. If you look at newspaper article picture, Akyuu holds an adult's hand, which is clearly bigger. She does look like she's 4 years old there. In Memorizable Gensokyo, she is only a bit shorter that Reimu and Marisa, so she's in her early-mid teens. As for hair length, nothing prevents her from getting a haircut, duh.
If the artist of the picture in the newspaper was aiming for a 4-year old girl look, then he/she missed... critically so. The bigger hand she's holding looks like a male hand, and males usually do have bigger hands than females. Not to mention the matter of perspective the shot is taken from, the owner of the said hand standing closer to the camera lens. Sure, a hair cut is possible, but that still doesn't explain why the Hieda family would delay a birth announcement for approximately 4-5 years. And if that was Akyuu's age at the time, then she'd be 16 - 17 in Memorizable Gensokyo, which I can in no way associate with her appearance in the said short manga.
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By common sense, both in and out of universe, if the woman in the photo is the mother, she should be depicted in a way that implies her identity, such as carrying her baby.
Not necessarily, but more importantly, someone is holding her hand. That has implications that she needs help navigating.
BTW, in Shinto and Japanese culture, pregnant women or women who have recently given birth are considered unclean (kegare, same concept translated as "impurity" in the SSiB translation), and are not allowed in Shinto shrines. Gensokyo doesn't have to work this way, but that would make Gensokyo such an exception that the author would have to specifically direct the reader's attention to it.
I don't think that picture was taken at the Hakurei Shrine. It should be reasonable to assume that it is taken at the Hieda family. From my understanding, at the posting of this paper, the Hakurei shrine has not held a celebration yet, but will hold one.
Sure, a hair cut is possible, but that still doesn't explain why the Hieda family would delay a birth announcement for approximately 4-5 years.
There is no delay in the announcement. The idea is that she became the Child of Miare at the age of 4. So, that would be when the Child of Miare's birth gets celebrated. Akyuu herself was born 4 years prior to that.
I guess another way to think of it is like this, she gained her reasoning and cognitive skills at the age of 4. Therefore, she is officially a Child of Miare at 4.
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Not necessarily, but more importantly, someone is holding her hand. That has implications that she needs help navigating.
Not necessarily. It can just as well have implications that the woman is holding her husband's hand.
I don't think that picture was taken at the Hakurei Shrine.
I can at least agree with this one. There are at least two buildings standing opposite each other and while Reimu's shrine may consist of more than one building, it looks more like a street.
There is no delay in the announcement. The idea is that she became the Child of Miare at the age of 4. So, that would be when the Child of Miare's birth gets celebrated. Akyuu herself was born 4 years prior to that.
I guess another way to think of it is like this, she gained her reasoning and cognitive skills at the age of 4. Therefore, she is officially a Child of Miare at 4.
Emphasis on "the idea is", meaning it's an assumption based on a picture of a girl who we assume to be Akyuu, with no claim to back it up, othar than logically deducing it from the subject of the article. If that's the case, why isn't it mentioned anywhere that the birth of the Child of Miare doesn't mean birth in its literal sense of word, but merely a "coming of age"? Because it's obvious from the implication? I don't think so.
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I really don't care to argue about this, but I think it's relevant that when I look at the picture it looks like a very young girl holding her parent's hand. The fact that you see it differently doesn't mean that I'm wrong, or that I'm right, but it does mean that we shouldn't really be using it as evidence of anything because it's subject to interpretation.
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Anime Weekend Atlanta is coming soon. Someone should ask ZUN about that picture.
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What significance does the word 'Lotus' have in '東方幻想郷 ~ Lotus Land Story' and '東方香霖堂 ~ Curiosities of Lotus Asia'?
It seems to be related to what Gensoukyou is (paradise), but I really can't find any kind of information.
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While you should probably wait for someone more competent to answer this question, I'll throw in my 2 cents. The Japanese names of games/manga are not literally translated into English. For example; Lotus Land Story is romanized as "Touhou Gensoukyou", which literally means "Fantastic Land of the East". And Curiosities of Lotus Asia is romanized as "Touhou Kourindou" just like Rinnosuke's shop and the wiki translates that as "Eastern Hall of the Perfumed Rain". So I don't think the word "lotus" is even present in the original names.
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The question must have been more poorly worded than I thought.
I wanted to ask if the word 'Lotus' could somehow mean 'paradise' in Japan, or in Buddhism, or in whatever.
Or if it isn't the case, if the word 'Lotus' signifies anything else related to the game or the book.
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5 seconds on Google
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/b_lotus.htm (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/b_lotus.htm)
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I don't think that picture was taken at the Hakurei Shrine. It should be reasonable to assume that it is taken at the Hieda family. From my understanding, at the posting of this paper, the Hakurei shrine has not held a celebration yet, but will hold one.
Sorry, I misremembered. At the time of the newspaper report, the Hakurei Shrine ceremony for Akyuu had yet to be held. It was advertised as something to happen on the page.
Is there any such thing like a Touhou-themed horror game?
There must be such a thing. Unfortunately, the only one I know is a Chinese fangame that seems to be more about the writers/artists coming up with ways to kill the characters than anything substantial.
>Magician age topic
I don't have much to add about this topic itself, however, it's interesting to notice that what is now translated as "abandon temper" is originally written as shachuu 捨虫 "casting away the worms", while "abandon food" is shashoku 捨食 "casting away food".
"Shachuu" is a reference to the Taoist concept of sanshi 三尸 "three worms", mentioned in Miko's SoPM article (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Bunbunmaru_Newspaper_8). They are three parasites that reside in the human body. Some theories credit them as the sources of human illness and wickedness; other theories, as referenced in SoPM, say they are three supervisors who report the human host's crimes to the Celestial Emperor every 60 days. Eliminating or removing them is an important step in the process of achieving immortality. This Taoist tradition also happened to be pretty influential in medieval Japan.
Since "shachuu" and "shashoku" sound like authentic Taoist nomenclature, I tried looking them up, but haven't found anything. They are also definitely not from Buddhism or Shinto. They seem to be invented by ZUN.
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According to the Touhou wiki, one of Remilia's and one of Orin's spellcards reference a buddhist hell of needles.
However, when I am looking around on internet, I can only find things about hot and cold kind of hells.
So which one is true?
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According to the Touhou wiki, one of Remilia's and one of Orin's spellcards reference a buddhist hell of needles.
However, when I am looking around on internet, I can only find things about hot and cold kind of hells.
So which one is true?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyu#Eighteen_levels_of_hell
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Thank you very much!
I could only find things about the Buddhistic Narakas, and I must have missed that one.
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Also referenced by Suika's DS spell card, and FS Chapter 1's ancient tengu book.
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Dunno if the first question is really related to Touhou in any way but here I post it.
- Any idea if there any "Koumajou Densetsu 3 Touhouvania" planning out in the near future?
- Also can Flandre really "destroy" (literally speaking) anything with her power, even Reimu or the gods?
- What size could the meteorite that Flandre destroy possibly be?
- How long can Reimu maintain her Fantasy Nature skill in gameplay battle?
Thanks for answering these question in advance.
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- How long can Reimu maintain her Heaven Nature skill in gameplay battle?
In Imperishable Night, it only lasts for 35 seconds. Oh yeah, its Fantasy Nature not Heaven Nature
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- Also can Flandre really "destroy" (literally speaking) anything with her power, even Reimu or the gods?
- What size could the meteorite that Flandre destroy possibly be?
- How long can Reimu maintain her Fantasy Nature skill in gameplay battle?
1. Pretty much, but I don't think the gods are beings that can be permanently destroyed just like that. I don't see why Reimu wouldn't be able to get destroyed by Flandre, well, except if Reimu would use her dimension-jump (like fantasy heaven) ability. (Correct me if I'm wrong here...)
2. Any size I guess, as long as Flandre is able to find the base point or "the eye" of the meteorite.
3. In gameplay battle, what Toyo said. If not with the spellcard rules, she could probably use it infinitely.
And one thing I wondered myself, what did Shou mean in the UFO stage 5 dialogue when she says that "the light of dharma is brighter in Makai".
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And one thing I wondered myself, what did Shou mean in the UFO stage 5 dialogue when she says that "the light of dharma is brighter in Makai".
Makai's atmosphere is full of miasma that makes any magic stronger and easier to use. This is discussed in Marisa's scenarios.
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I want to know something:
Does weight affect hitboxes in any way?
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no and furthermore anyone who says it does is dumb
Darkness: When we're talking about Flandre's ability, it would pretty much require the object to be physical and for it to have a point of tension of sorts. I doubt she could destroy things like gasses and liquids since they're much too fluid.
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- Also can Flandre really "destroy" (literally speaking) anything with her power, even Reimu or the gods?
- What size could the meteorite that Flandre destroy possibly be?
- How long can Reimu maintain her Fantasy Nature skill in gameplay battle?
Flandre can only destroy physical objects. She was talking about weak points of the object being in her right hand and such, so the assumption should be that she can only destroy objects that are physical.
No known limit. But it should be fairly safe to assume at least the size of the Scarlet Devil Mansion.
3. In gameplay battle, what Toyo said. If not with the spellcard rules, she could probably use it infinitely.
She's a human, even if she is special, with limited energy. It should be fairly safe to assume she cannot use it indefinitely.
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I want to know something:
Does weight affect hitboxes in any way?
I believe hitbox size (as far as Reimu/Marisa go at least) has to do more with position than anything. Reimu flies in an horizontal position (as if lying down), as opposed to Marisa who flies while sitting on her broom, which is a vertical position, this means that Marisa has a larger vulnerable area for an attack from the front, so she has a bigger hitbox.
Not exactly weight, but body size does have something to do with this, like how usually Sanae/Sakuya/others have hitbox size just between Reimu and Marisa, you can say they fly just like Reimu, but they're just taller or otherwise larger than her (like Sakuya or Yuyuko, since they can be considered grown-ups compared to Reimu) or, like Marisa, they have more places where they could get hit (Remilia could get hit on the wings, for example)
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No statement about hitboxes' in-universe meaning has been made in canon, but according to a character sheet in WAHH Vol. 1, the height of its chatacters go Kasen > Sanae > Reimu > Marisa. It has always been known that Sakuya and Yukari are "tall", Reimu, Yuyuko, Ran and Alice are "a little tall", and Marisa and Youmu are "a little short".
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Meta question: Is there any reason why Marisa appears in most of the game icons?
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Probably only because Reimu gets to appear on most of the title screens, really. I doubt it has any sort of actual significance.
Because Reimu is first main character, she gets her big title screen picture, not a small icon. And so as not to leave the other main character out, Marisa gets the icons instead of nothing. That's how I see it anyways.
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This might be a tricky question, but might some one have an idea if Seija (an Amanojaku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanojaku)) has an western counterpart? Because I can believe that every other character in DDC does have some counterpart in western/eastern culture (yes, even the tsukumogami band due of their instruments), so she sticks out the most.
Then again, she might be just trolling by breaking the chain
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Is there a counterpart (male) for "shrine maiden"?
Also in Touhou Sangetsusei ~ Strange and Bright Nature Deity chapter 8.5 Pg 16
- Can someone explain the 1st and the 2nd one means?
Make it one drink , and one consumes the drink.
Make it two drinks, and the drink consumes itself.
Make it three drinks, and the drink consumes one.
Also at the end of this same page is it by
- The Hakurei Priest (male) or Priestess (female)?
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>Is there a counterpart (male) for "shrine maiden"?
The structure and history of Shinto priesthood is more complex than a simple "yes" can express, and my knowledge is also quite limited on that front. But of course there are male Shinto priests. In the modern Shinto system, "shrine maidens" are in fact not even considered properly registered and trained priests.
>Make it one drink , and one consumes the drink.
>Make it two drinks, and the drink consumes itself.
>Make it three drinks, and the drink consumes one.
That's simple proverb-ish humor. After two drinks, you are starting to become intoxicated, and the liquor seems to automatically drink themselves. After three drinks, you get smittened, "the alcohol drinks you".
>The Hakurei Priest
This is something not as well-known as it should be in the Western fandom.
ZUN calls himself the Hakurei Kannushi, and sometimes signs his writing with it. "Kannushi" originally refers to the male chief priest of a Shinto shrine, and today is used to refer to all male Shinto priests. Fans, including ZUN's friends, often call ZUN "Kannushi" to show respect.
A fan has carved a Hakurei Kannushi stamp for ZUN. This seal can be seen on all official books.
Previously I said in the status update thread that ZUN first called himself that in IN's credit roll, this is incorrect. The earliest instance of this title I know of is on his music download web page from 2001, where he called himself "the Kannushi of this shrine".
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Does Kagerou turn into a literal wolf during full moon nights, or is how we saw her in the game her "wolf" form? Which would mean she looks like an ordinary human when it's not full moon...
Thanks in advance!
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Does Kagerou turn into a literal wolf during full moon nights, or is how we saw her in the game her "wolf" form? Which would mean she looks like an ordinary human when it's not full moon...
Thanks in advance!
Right now it seems like her werewolf form is a "hairy" human... but while in this form she can turn into a full wolf or back, which might or might not be a standard werewolf ability.
先天性の獣人は一度動物化すると完全に獣の姿となってしまう者が多いが、後天性は人間の姿に近い獣になる事が多い（角や牙や尻尾が生えたりする）
Numerous hereditary therianthropes assume a completely animal form when they change, but acquired ones often retain their human shape as an animal (save for having horns, fangs, and/or tails).
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Can you tell me who appears in Marisa and Sakuya (both A and B)'s DDC endings?
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- How many "yin yang orb(s)" is there in total?
- Can Reimu summon them at will or does they need to be within a certain range or what?
- Is there a limit in how many spell card can one possess/use during a battle?
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- How many "yin yang orb(s)" is there in total?
- Can Reimu summon them at will or does they need to be within a certain range or what?
- Is there a limit in how many spell card can one possess/use during a battle?
I kinda figured Reimu just sort of summons them. What makes you think there might be any kind of limiting factor.
Not that I know of.
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Well, there's at least one Yin Yang orb that's special, the one that's the go-shintai of the Hakurei God. The Three Faries found it in chap 17 of OSP. It's blessing is specifically youkai extermination, seeing how Kasen's arm is blown as soon as she touches it, so presumably, Reimu walks around with it as her main weapon, and the other ones are just random bullets shaped as the orb. Or maybe the orb can split into more than one orb.
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- How many "yin yang orb(s)" is there in total?
- Can Reimu summon them at will or does they need to be within a certain range or what?
- Is there a limit in how many spell card can one possess/use during a battle?
Not sure if there is a limit, but I am unsure if that thing is even summoned. I kind of assume her Yin Yang orb is an actual object, since you see Kasen trying to touch it.
As for spell cards, that is predetermined before the fight. You declare how many spell cards you will use.
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She's a human, even if she is special, with limited energy. It should be fairly safe to assume she cannot use it indefinitely.
As much as I'd like to belive that, canon seems to point more towards the contrary.
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As much as I'd like to belive that, canon seems to point more towards the contrary.
I am unsure what canon you are talking about, can you provide sources of this?
But the mangas clearly point towards her having limited energy. Reimu is definitely getting tired from the energy she is exerting in Silent Sinner in Blue.
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I am unsure what canon you are talking about, can you provide sources of this?
But the mangas clearly point towards her having limited energy. Reimu is definitely getting tired from the energy she is exerting in Silent Sinner in Blue.
Read the description of Fantasy Nature in IN Spell Card Practice and Grimoire of Marisa.
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Regarding the Yin-Yang orb, I like to think there's only one actual orb, and the options you see while playing as Reimu, or the bouncing Yin-Yang balls when fighting her, are just the manifestation of its powers. The actual orb itself isn't directly used as a weapon like in HRtP. That's my theory, though.
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Read the description of Fantasy Nature in IN Spell Card Practice and Grimoire of Marisa.
What about the description of the spell? It is in Marisa's opinion, is it not?
The facts are that Reimu gets tired, this has been shown in canon.
So, why assume that Reimu can keep up the spell indefinitely? If I were to guess, I would say maybe a full day, before she becomes completely exhausted.
Regarding the Yin-Yang orb, I like to think there's only one actual orb, and the options you see while playing as Reimu, or the bouncing Yin-Yang balls when fighting her, are just the manifestation of its powers. The actual orb itself isn't directly used as a weapon like in HRtP. That's my theory, though.
Like what Sagus said, that could be it. Reimu does have a real orb, we see that in the 3 fairies' manga. I wonder where she keeps it or does she just store it in the shrine? If Kasen can get it so easily, it sucks to be Reimu.
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What about the description of the spell? It is in Marisa's opinion, is it not?
The facts are that Reimu gets tired, this has been shown in canon.
So, why assume that Reimu can keep up the spell indefinitely? If I were to guess, I would say maybe a full day, before she becomes completely exhausted.
Grimoire of Marisa may be her opinion, but Imperishable Night descriptions aren't. They were there long before GoM and are not just Marisa's opinion, but ZUN's words.
"If it wasn't just for play, (with time limit) no one could beat her by any method."
Ordinary spells and battles may tire Reimu out in canon, but Fantasy Nature involves her floating away from reality. I'd imagine that when you're not a part of reality, concepts like physics, biology, chemistry, psychology, magic, flow of time, etc. lose all meaning, as they cannot affect you. The only thing that can bring Reimu back to reality is her own will. If Reimu's ability was limited by time, it would already contradict ZUN's statement, as it would already provide a method for defeating her in FN trance - by timing it out.
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Please do not take spell card descriptions as literal while ignoring other sources. Please refer to this text for comparison, Iku's profile and link, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Iku_Nagae:
She can read the mood of a place, and adapt to it right away. She doesn't try to break the mood unless there's a very urgent reason.
Flexibility is stronger than stiffness. When necessary, she vanishes completely and parries any attacks.
Reimu isn't the only one with a description like that.
Also refer to the other Last Words, if you take them literally, Eirin's spell card is impossible to avoid.
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Discrepancies exist, my friend, but no other canon description is provided to make us doubt the effect of the spell is exactly as the one provided in its description. They are all Spell Cards, of course Eirin's spell has to be dodgeable for it to be even allowed to be played in a danmaku battle. Likewise, Reimu's FN has to be capturable, if not by spell break, then by time-out. It's the fundemental rule of the Spell Card system. But without such restrictions, who is to say that Reimu cannot stay invincible forever, or that Eirin's attack should give its target any chance?
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Like what Sagus said, that could be it. Reimu does have a real orb, we see that in the 3 fairies' manga. I wonder where she keeps it or does she just store it in the shrine? If Kasen can get it so easily, it sucks to be Reimu.
I recall a scene in one of the manga (either WaHH or Three fairies) where she took out the orb from her sleeves. So that might be where she keeps it while fighting. While not fighting, she probably keeps it in the shrine. And IIRC, in that chapter where Kasen's arm is destroyed, the Three fairies was rummaging through the shrine to find its goshintai beforehand.
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I recall a scene in one of the manga (either WaHH or Three fairies) where she took out the orb from her sleeves. So that might be where she keeps it while fighting. While not fighting, she probably keeps it in the shrine. And IIRC, in that chapter where Kasen's arm is destroyed, the Three fairies was rummaging through the shrine to find its goshintai beforehand.
It was in the Three Faeries manga; she took it out because she suspected the orb was the reason Yukari overheard her coversation with Marisa regarding the radio tower, IIRC. It seems the orb retained its "cell phone" ability that Yukari installed in it during SA.
Yeah, that's what they were doing. Reimu, Marisa and Kasen were talking about the Hakurei god and what his go-shintai was, Reimu said she didn't know, and the faeries offered to search for it.
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Discrepancies exist, my friend, but no other canon description is provided to make us doubt the effect of the spell is exactly as the one provided in its description. They are all Spell Cards, of course Eirin's spell has to be dodgeable for it to be even allowed to be played in a danmaku battle. Likewise, Reimu's FN has to be capturable, if not by spell break, then by time-out. It's the fundemental rule of the Spell Card system. But without such restrictions, who is to say that Reimu cannot stay invincible forever, or that Eirin's attack should give its target any chance?
Hm, this seems to be leading into speculation territory by stretching some pretty common language of a spellcard description. Reimu can demonstrably get tired, as Starxsword pointed out happens in SSiB. And I think when you put speculative interpretations next to simple, demonstrable evidence, yeah, it's pretty clear what the fact of the matter is.
Having said that, you do point out something I always found charming about spellcard descriptions: they seem to reflect more than their actual power. Like the language itself in the description is used to make them sound more formidable than they demonstrably are. Why this is, I dunno. Could be a number of different reasons. But the descriptions do tend towards this wonderful hyperbole that I find really charming.
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Having said that, you do point out something I always found charming about spellcard descriptions: they seem to reflect more than their actual power. Like the language itself in the description is used to make them sound more formidable than they demonstrably are. Why this is, I dunno. Could be a number of different reasons. But the descriptions do tend towards this wonderful hyperbole that I find really charming.
Everybody in Gensokyo is a show off :V
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Eh, I personally think that Fantasy Nature's true terror doesn't simply lie on that Reimu would use it without any break, but how badly she can destroy you. I mean, in SWR, once she actiavtes it, there is little you can do to not die.
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If Letty ever went all out , what Stage Boss do you think she will be?
(Does this count as powerlevel discussion? If it does just ignore it plz)
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Being a stage boss doesn't mean much regarding the character's actual power, just how well they play danmaku. So...
Letty would be like Stage EX because she's the best at dodging because just imagine how many snowball fights Cirno tries to start with her every winter :V
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Hm, this seems to be leading into speculation territory by stretching some pretty common language of a spellcard description. Reimu can demonstrably get tired, as Starxsword pointed out happens in SSiB. And I think when you put speculative interpretations next to simple, demonstrable evidence, yeah, it's pretty clear what the fact of the matter is.
Having said that, you do point out something I always found charming about spellcard descriptions: they seem to reflect more than their actual power. Like the language itself in the description is used to make them sound more formidable than they demonstrably are. Why this is, I dunno. Could be a number of different reasons. But the descriptions do tend towards this wonderful hyperbole that I find really charming.
There really isn't antything speculative about what I said. Reimu gets tired in SSiB, of course she does. She's just a human. But did she actually use Fanasy Nature in her battle? She didn't. Why? Because she was having a Spell Card duel and using FN unrestricted and without time limit would be a volation of her own rules. She could use her game version of it, which lasts 35 seconds, though, but instead decided to have a god-summoning contest with Yorihime, because ZUN never meant to portray the Lunarians as defeatable by anyone from Earth. Fantasy Nature is a cheat-like ability that should not exist, but ZUN gets away with it, by having his world use Spell Card rules, which should give everyone equal chances. Of course, I have no other evidence to present that FN can be kept up for as long as Reimu wants, save the description in IN and GoM. But like I said, in my previous post, when Reimu floats away from reality, there are no factors that affect her. Can an unreal person be hurt, tired, hungry, bored, afraid or can they age? Reimu simply isn't there for any of those factors to have an impact on her. It's your word agaisnt ZUN's. The one who needs to prove that FN is running on limited resources is you.
Eh, I personally think that Fantasy Nature's true terror doesn't simply lie on that Reimu would use it without any break, but how badly she can destroy you. I mean, in SWR, once she actiavtes it, there is little you can do to not die.
Actually, I've seen people dodge it (or at least survive it) and even counter it with Youmu. However, I doubt that ZUN intended there to be a flaw that would allow such a thing.
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The one who needs to prove that FN is running on limited resources is you.
Not really trying to "prove" anything but rather answer the question from two pages and four days ago, which (surprise!) is still being debated, in this case based on a spellcard description. As has been pointed out, these descriptions tend towards the "whoah better watch out!" hyperbolic types of language. And "if the spellcard rules were removed, she could use it forever" is a bit of a moot point, as the spellcard rules aren't lifted.
Simply put, since we're all in agreement that Reimu can and does physically tire, and that we know the Spellcard Rules are going to be observed regardless, I'd say it's safe to say the capabilities of FN are always going to be limited.
Of course there's always hypotheticals and theoreticals we can throw into any relatively simple question asked in this thread. Just not sure how helpful that is for answering a question as opposed to developing a really interesting "what if there were no spellcard rules?" theory development.
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Simply put, since we're all in agreement that Reimu can and does physically tire, and that we know the Spellcard Rules are going to be observed regardless, I'd say it's safe to say the capabilities of FN are always going to be limited.
Once again, slowly, because apparently, we are just talking past one another: We are NOT talking about Reimu and her stamina here. We are talking about Fnatasy Nature, which is an ability, that makes Reimu (an ordinary human girl who gets tired, needs food, can be injured, ages, etc, etc.) into a godlike being, untouchable by anything the concept of reality can throw at her, including the potential lack of energy required her to keep this up. It basically allows her to give reality the middle finger. Marisa says this wasn't a card before, just as something Reimu would simply do before it got its name. ZUN says that if this wasn't just a Spell Card for play, with a time limit, Reimu would literally be unbeatable. And he said that in pretty plain and simple-to undrstand way too. Based on this I think it's safe to assume Reimu can maintain FN indefinitely.
Of course there's always hypotheticals and theoreticals we can throw into any relatively simple question asked in this thread. Just not sure how helpful that is for answering a question as opposed to developing a really interesting "what if there were no spellcard rules?" theory development.
The purpose this serves is to sieve wrong speculative assumptions from straight and factual observations of canon material, which has led us to a point where our answers to the same question are the exact opposites of each other.
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Once again, slowly, because apparently, we are just talking past one another: We are NOT talking about Reimu and her stamina here.
There's absolutely no need to do the "OK let me repeat that slowly" thing with me. I addressed how I see the limitations of FN, e.g. that the spellcard rules aren't going anywhere and don't even get suspended. So it's a moot point to say "yeah but IF there weren't spellcard rules applied to FN then etc". Reimu's stamina is relevant w.r.t. her ability to maintain a particular power over a length of time, but even if FN were some kind of exception to the limits of her power, its supposed full use won't be seen, because of the spellcard rules.
The purpose this serves is to sieve wrong speculative assumptions from straight and factual observations of canon material, which has led us to a point where our answers to the same question are the exact opposites of each other.
Not sure if that's what led us to this point. Either way, I'm out, lest I get some more of that "let me spell it out for you really slowly" response again.
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Reimu obviously knew how to use that ability even before the Spell Card rules, since it was Marisa that introduced it into play, so she must've seen her use it without a declaration and other attributes that are common for Spell Cards.
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The answer to the question is "We don't know; from what we have we can reach wildly differing conclusions, and we will most likely never know for certain, because there is no foreseeable scenario in which Reimu would use FN outside of a spellcard duel".
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Next time on Gensokyo Mythbusters: Can Fantasy Nature truly last for as long as Reimu wants? Can Flandre truly destroy everything? Can Cirno's manipulation of cold allow her to alter it to the extent of negating it? Can Yorihime summon her own superior, Lord Tsukuyomi to do her bidding? Can a Hourai Immortal regenerate after having her body cut up into several parts and each of the body parts are put into small solid containers? Can ZUN chug down a bottle of non-alcoholic beer? Is Reimu's life truly vital to the existence of the Great Boundary? ...and more.
Watch to find out.
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I think a massive assumption being made here is that during Fantasy Nature, Reimu floating away from "everything" means that she disappears from reality and there are no bounds on anything that she does because those bounds are within reality, or something along those lines. This is a mistake; all that's being said is that ありとあらゆるもの から from "anything and everything" (expression), 宙に in midair 浮き she floats 無敵となる and becomes invincible. All that seems to happen, and is seen to happen, is that she puts herself where nothing can touch her. To say that she actually ceases to exist in some sense is unwarranted.
If it's convincing to mention, it uses もの/物, which is the word for "thing" in a tangible sense, or an object, rather than こと/事, which means "thing" in a figurative or intangible sense.
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I think a massive assumption being made here is that during Fantasy Nature, Reimu floating away from "everything" means that she disappears from reality and there are no bounds on anything that she does because those bounds are within reality, or something along those lines. This is a mistake; all that's being said is that ありとあらゆるもの から from "anything and everything" (expression), 宙に in midair 浮き she floats 無敵となる and becomes invincible. All that seems to happen, and is seen to happen, is that she puts herself where nothing can touch her. To say that she actually ceases to exist in some sense is unwarranted.
If it's convincing to mention, it uses もの/物, which is the word for "thing" in a tangible sense, or an object, rather than こと/事, which means "thing" in a figurative or intangible sense.
But the fact still remains that she is invincible and that if there was no time limit set to it, she'd be unbeatable by any means.
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I never said I was against your argument, I was just pointing out the mistake. I can pretty easily see both sides here. Reimu is definitely shown to get tired when using stronger abilities, so I could see that activating Fantasy Nature and using it would put her under stress. However, Marisa's description that she just closes her eyes and everything happens seemingly automatically is also somewhat convincing that it's effortless; at least more convincing than ZUN's spell card quote, which as mentioned, is often flavour-tinged and prone to exaggeration.
I don't think it would be prudent to assume that she does or doesn't get tired. Using either of the current arguments to pick either way is too much to me, because I don't find either side convincing enough on their own, never mind when considering they should outweigh or explain the other.
Also Eirin's Last Word doesn't say it's undodgeable either, it says "once she spots you, escaping is no longer possible", which is a play on 監視から逃れる, meaning to "escape someone's attention". So, "once you've caught her attention, you can't get rid of her". Very Eirin.
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Certainty in Touhou is something that's rare to have. The reason why I continue to stubbornly argue with other users is to be absolutely sure whether one party or the other is right, even at the cost of making myself look like a fool. I don't care for other people's sympathy. Just the truth.
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I'm sure many people here want the truth. I know I want truth. That's why, considering the lack of thoroughly convincing arguments in either direction, I choose to suspend judgment, rather than concluding one side is true. On the claim of "Reimu can continue Fantasy Nature forever / as long as she wants", I disagree. On the claim of "Reimu can only use Fantasy Nature for a certain amount of time", I also disagree.
The ratio of fact to content in Touhou is definitely not large and we make constant appeals to Occam's Razor and probability to tell what's true, but I don't think that's the case here.
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>Eirin's Last Word
Yeah, I agree that when it says "It is impossible to avoid this", I take it as there is no way to just bail out of it.. Marisa's description on it says it completely restricts your movement. Like a spider web it is, once you are caught on it, escape is impossible.
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Where did the "Utsuho got her power by eating the corpse of the Yatagarasu" idea come from? IIRC the term "eat" or something is sometimes used to describe how Utsuho absorbed the Yatagarasu's power, but what about the corpse part? Was it said somewhere in the games? It's not on her profile...
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Reimu obviously knew how to use that ability even before the Spell Card rules, since it was Marisa that introduced it into play, so she must've seen her use it without a declaration and other attributes that are common for Spell Cards.
The point is we have other references we can use. We have her spell card description, which I have mentioned should not be taken literally. Eirin isn't the only spell card with such an outrageous claims. Look at Youmu's Last Word, it implies her attack range is infinity, which is ridiculous. Attack range the size of the garden of Hakugyoukurou is dubious, but still sort of believable, but having infinite width, that is an exaggeration. Surely, you don't think Youmu can slice the universe in half right?
Certainty in Touhou is something that's rare to have. The reason why I continue to stubbornly argue with other users is to be absolutely sure whether one party or the other is right, even at the cost of making myself look like a fool. I don't care for other people's sympathy. Just the truth.
The point here is big attacks like Fantasy Heaven take energy, this is shown in both Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and Hopeless Masquerade. In SWR, it is 5 cards to use, and in HM, it is a Last Word, requiring max popularity to use. Now, that is possibly a gameplay/story segregation, however, the idea of going to an unconscious state will cause the user to use no energy is a mistake. The reasoning is that this isn't the only spell that causes her to do that. Reimu's last spell against Suika also causes her to go into an unconscious state. Being unconscious in no way implies you for some unspeakable reason do not spend energy to do your attacks.
Where did the "Utsuho got her power by eating the corpse of the Yatagarasu" idea come from? IIRC the term "eat" or something is sometimes used to describe how Utsuho absorbed the Yatagarasu's power, but what about the corpse part? Was it said somewhere in the games? It's not on her profile...
Not sure, let me look at SoPM.
It isn't in SoPM, it is mentioned in the Subterranean Animism dialogue. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterranean_Animism/Story/Reimu_and_Yukari%27s_Scenario#Stage_6.
Reimu: The ultimate power?
If a geyser happens every time, does that mean it's the power of a teakettle?
Yukari: (Reimu, you should be able to see it. Which god did that bird eat up?)
EDIT: found it
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Not sure, let me look at SoPM.
It isn't in SoPM, it is mentioned in the Subterranean Animism dialogue. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterranean_Animism/Story/Reimu_and_Yukari%27s_Scenario#Stage_6.
EDIT: found it
The "eat" part, yes, but what about the "corpse" part? It isn't mentioned in the dialogues, as far as I can tell.
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Oh, I don't think the Yatagarasu is even dead, so I didn't think there was even a corpse.
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Oh, I don't think the Yatagarasu is even dead, so I didn't think there was even a corpse.
Yeah, I don't think so either, but more than once I've seen people saying that Okuu ate the Yatagarasu's corpse, and I'm wondering where the hell that came from.
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Probably because it's harder for them to imagine her eating something alive? Although based on SoPM it seems to be quite a bit more spiritual than that, so "eat" is misleading in the first place. Or hypnotism.
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Who is saying Utsuho ate a corpse anyway? Also you can try searching my old Utsuho thread (linked to relevant post) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14486.msg958600.html#msg958600), to see if it ever came up.
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The point is we have other references we can use. We have her spell card description, which I have mentioned should not be taken literally. Eirin isn't the only spell card with such an outrageous claims. Look at Youmu's Last Word, it implies her attack range is infinity, which is ridiculous. Attack range the size of the garden of Hakugyoukurou is dubious, but still sort of believable, but having infinite width, that is an exaggeration. Surely, you don't think Youmu can slice the universe in half right?
As dubious or doubtful it sounds, have you seen the full potential of the character's spells without Spell Card Rule resstrictions? ZUN states a fact, which is or isn't hard to swallow. You say he's just exaggerating? Prove it. Oh, wait, you can't. Because like it was already said here, we will not see instances where the rules of Spell Cards will be ignored. In order to understand this, we must first understand what Spell Cards are - they are weakened, non-lethal versions of magical attacks, which are designed to be beautiful and avoidable, hence their descriptions sounding like an exaggeration of what we actually see in the games.
The point here is big attacks like Fantasy Heaven take energy, this is shown in both Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and Hopeless Masquerade. In SWR, it is 5 cards to use, and in HM, it is a Last Word, requiring max popularity to use. Now, that is possibly a gameplay/story segregation, however, the idea of going to an unconscious state will cause the user to use no energy is a mistake. The reasoning is that this isn't the only spell that causes her to do that. Reimu's last spell against Suika also causes her to go into an unconscious state. Being unconscious in no way implies you for some unspeakable reason do not spend energy to do your attacks.
That's mixing gameplay mechanics into the debate, which is only going to serve confusion. The games have to be balanced somehow and each character has to have roughly equal chances of winning. Not sure about you, but I can hardly imagine Cirno knocking out Suika in hand-to hand-combat. Another question that arises is: where exactly does it say that Reimu becoms "unconscious" during Fantasy Nature? Floating away from "anything and everything" (expression or not) doesn't change the meaning of "floating away from reality" very much. The consumption of energy we see in the games when using big attacks is nothing more than the application of Spell Card rules in action. Powerful attacks should not be declared right off the bat. The battle should last some while before such spells can be allowed into play. Do you think the term "Last Word" is a coincidence? These attacks are designed to be used as last resort. In IN, they are even used in a post-battle manner, where it doesn't matter whether you captue it or not. You don't lose a life. You have already won the battle and the Last Word is just a scoring opportunity.
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Next time on Gensokyo Mythbusters: Can Fantasy Nature truly last for as long as Reimu wants? Can Flandre truly destroy everything? Can Cirno's manipulation of cold allow her to alter it to the extent of negating it? Can Yorihime summon her own superior, Lord Tsukuyomi to do her bidding? Can a Hourai Immortal regenerate after having her body cut up into several parts and each of the body parts are put into small solid containers? Can ZUN chug down a bottle of non-alcoholic beer? Is Reimu's life truly vital to the existence of the Great Boundary? ...and more.
Watch to find out.
Okay, time to try my maybe-and-probably-filled hand at all of these.
1. I'm not even sure Reimu has any idea what in the world she's doing after it activates so probably not, though otherwise nobody knows
2. Depending on what everything is, probably
3. Probably not
4. Probably
5. Supposedly as long as the soul exists, yes
6. IMPOSSIBRU
Even if we tell him it's alcoholic he'll taste it immediately and make a Touhou character who tricks people by telling them decaf coffee is caffeinated
7. Maybe
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Since Sagus beautifully evaded the threat my previous question may bring, here's another question:
How does magical power translate into danmaku skill? I used to think that more magic = more danmaku, but then seeing Yuugi, who supposedly has very little magic, do "Knock Out in Three Steps"...Or Satori's Suika Recollections...(although in Satori's case she might just have more power than Suika so she creates more danamku even though the pattern is the same).
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I also want to ask about danmaku, and on the sense of WHAT it is made of. With the talk about SSiB, I wanted to check it out (Side note: I do find it ridiculous how Yorihime won without firing any danmaku herself). Before that, I had the idea that danmaku bullets were generally just energy and the text in Spellcards were just there for flavor. But then we have stuff like Stardust Reverie, which is pretty much rain of star-shaped cookies due the fact that starts don't twinkle in the Moon and Queen of Midnight which Yorihime block by making her glow because the bullets are made of darkness (or something, I forgot). So if stuff like that can affect danmaku, WHAT are they made out of?
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Did Yorihime even play by Spellcard rules...? The stuff she does are pretty blatantly against spellcard rules...
I always assumed that once an object is used in a Spellcard Battle, it merely becomes 'danmaku' and lose all its original property except size. Doesn't matter whether they're magical projectiles, talismans, cellphones (from one article in PMiSS, where Akyuu suggested using them as danmaku), or minisuns. Hence why normal humans like Marisa can get damaged by talismans, or why the heroines don't get radioactive cancer after fighting Utsuho. Eirin's pre-battle dialogue in IN FinalA also somewhat implies that those oval bullets she uses are medicinal pills (the stuff about "Medicine can heal, but can also be used as weapon").
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Yorihime plays by spellcard rules, just as the player character. She's going through a boss rush and bombing past every card. She plays exactly like I do.
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D'oh, why do none of us realise that?? :o
Of course she just bombs every card...
But she's one hax character since she use different bombs and each bomb one-shot the entire card...
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Oh hey, I have a few questions actually. One of them isn't entirely serious (see if you can guess which one!)
1. In Aya's profile from Subterranean Animism it says, "As a tengu, she wanted to avoid actually going underground." Why "as a tengu"? What dangers would await a tengu in particular underground?
2. Did we ever get a ruling on whether or not radio or television broadcast waves can traverse the Hakurei Border?
3. Are youkai lactose intolerant?
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Who is saying Utsuho ate a corpse anyway? Also you can try searching my old Utsuho thread (linked to relevant post) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14486.msg958600.html#msg958600), to see if it ever came up.
I see it mentioned from time to time; TV Tropes Fridge page, for one, or a drawing with Okuu on a "time-out" box with the sign" being punished by eating the corpse of a god".
Yeah, I remember that thread; it's in fact the one that made me do some research and discover that nowhere in canon it's said that she ate the Yatagarasu's corpse. I'm just curious as to where the idea came from in the first place.
Oh hey, I have a few questions actually. One of them isn't entirely serious (see if you can guess which one!)
1. In Aya's profile from Subterranean Animism it says, "As a tengu, she wanted to avoid actually going underground." Why "as a tengu"? What dangers would await a tengu in particular underground?
2. Did we ever get a ruling on whether or not radio or television broadcast waves can traverse the Hakurei Border?
3. Are youkai lactose intolerant?
1. Maybe she was afraid of running into oni? They bossed over the tengu, once; I don't think they were the nicest rulers. Or maybe it's just that, since they (well, at least the crow caste) are creatures of the skies, going beneath the earth doesn't sit well with them.
2. It's never stated if they can or can't, as far as I know.
3. Only cat youkai :V
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1. In Aya's profile from Subterranean Animism it says, "As a tengu, she wanted to avoid actually going underground." Why "as a tengu"? What dangers would await a tengu in particular underground?
Some oni stayed in Ancient City, and they were tengu's (and kappa's, by the way) superiors. She (and Nitori too) was afraid that showing up before them might make them want to go back and retake Youkai Mountain. That, and surface youkai in general can't go underground due to agreement.
2. Did we ever get a ruling on whether or not radio or television broadcast waves can traverse the Hakurei Border?
Such thing was never addressed. Considering cell phones don't work in Gensokyo, probably not.
3. Are youkai lactose intolerant?
...What the heck even made you ask that, I wonder?
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1. OK, I thought it might have something to do with oni. Much appreciated.
2. Hm, cellphones are a different deal than radio and TV, but was it said that the cellphone wasn't working because of the Border?
3. Haven't you ever wondered if youkai can handle dairy? I dunno about you, but I wonder about it all the time. Was just seeing, as a thought exercise, if there was even the flimsiest, thinnest evidence one way or the other.
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2. Hm, cellphones are a different deal than radio and TV, but was it said that the cellphone wasn't working because of the Border?
I think it's stated somewhere in PMiSS that outsiders keep staring at cellphones as if expecting something to happen and break down crying when it doesn't (I may be paraphrasing a bit), but it's never stated if it doesn't work because of the barrier or not. I'd expect that even without the barrier, Gensokyo would have terrible reception, if it even had any; the place is a mountain range, after all.
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I think it's stated somewhere in PMiSS that outsiders keep staring at cellphones as if expecting something to happen and break down crying when it doesn't (I may be paraphrasing a bit), but it's never stated if it doesn't work because of the barrier or not. I'd expect that even without the barrier, Gensokyo would have terrible reception, if it even had any; the place is a mountain range, after all.
For whatever reason I decided to look up mobile coverage in Japan. If Gensokyo is physically located where it might be (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatsugatake_Mountains), coverage there is actually pretty good (http://broadband.mb.softbank.jp/en/download/customer_support/map/kanto.pdf). So maybe that is the Barrier at work.
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3. Haven't you ever wondered if youkai can handle dairy? I dunno about you, but I wonder about it all the time. Was just seeing, as a thought exercise, if there was even the flimsiest, thinnest evidence one way or the other.
Youkai chemistry is vastly different from human, their sicknessess and disorders are too different from human ones, considering they need different medicines.
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Gensokyo: "We don't have phone signal, but we have cellpones. We don't have radio signal, but we have radio towers. We have no electricity consumption, but we have an energy crisis."
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Gensokyo: "We don't have phone signal, but we have cellpones. We don't have radio signal, but we have radio towers. We have no electricity consumption, but we have an energy crisis."
It is a good thing they have magic because it really is an inefficiently run society.
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For whatever reason I decided to look up mobile coverage in Japan. If Gensokyo is physically located where it might be (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatsugatake_Mountains), coverage there is actually pretty good (http://broadband.mb.softbank.jp/en/download/customer_support/map/kanto.pdf). So maybe that is the Barrier at work.
...should've expected that their coverage would be superior to what I'm used to =P
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We have no electricity consumption, but we have an energy crisis.
Human Village has electrical lighting in FS, but that has most likely appeared AFTER Kanako's cold fusion experiment triggered by an energy crisis. But there are also tengu and kappa societies, and we haven't seen them yet, so they might have had an energy problem.
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Before there was electricity, street lights in cities and villages used oil and looked almost identcally to some of the modern electric street lamps.
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Suzunaan has an eletric lamp hanging on the celling. Although it could be a gas one, as you said.
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Patchouli has a desk lamp, although the fact that it could be a plant and that it's Patchouli means it might be magically powered.
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We don't have radio signal, but we have radio towers.
Then again, probability of the radio tower having just appearing into Gensokyo due of being left into some forest for a long time is possibility.
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How does magical power translate into danmaku skill? I used to think that more magic = more danmaku, but then seeing Yuugi, who supposedly has very little magic, do "Knock Out in Three Steps"...Or Satori's Suika Recollections...(although in Satori's case she might just have more power than Suika so she creates more danamku even though the pattern is the same).
They aren't related. Danmaku is meant to be incredibly easy to generate, so that even fairies and certain humans can use it (basically, danmaku can be anything you want). How elegantly and smartly they can use it is the key point. The oni danmaku is different, as they use ~mysterious oni powers~ to do whatever they do.
I also want to ask about danmaku, and on the sense of WHAT it is made of.
Anything you consider to be used as danmaku.
Patchouli has a desk lamp, although the fact that it could be a plant and that it's Patchouli means it might be magically powered.
Noteworthy: Marisa has a similar flower lamp in UFO, which either means she learned the magic used to do so... or she borrowed it.
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>SA Yukari script
Unrelated to the discussion, there's a mistranslation in last line of Stage 5:Reimu: 神様って消化に良いのかなぁ
Wiki translation: I wonder if it's okay to eat gods like that...
Correct translation: I wonder if gods are easy to digest...
An update on Hijiri's wings:
It has been pointed out that the pattern of the heart in the center of her wings comes from a 8th century treasure kept in Shosoin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Ds%C5%8Din) (treasure house of Todaiji), likely imported from Tang dynasty China, known as 黄金瑠璃鈿背十二稜镜. It's a silver mirror decorated with gold, silver and ceramic (click to enlarge).
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/p692232066_zps309fca85.jpg)
(A larger picture (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wyoBVqpTropuYrwL9bWRBdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0))
The same person who pointed out this also believes this "four turrets with beating heart in the center" image is a reference to the final boss of Contra, which is a shakier conclusion.
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Looks like 6 turrets to me.
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By "4 turrets", I mean the 4 laser turrets on her wings. The mirror's back pattern itself is only used as the beating heart in the center (and also in the game's main UI on the right side).
EDIT: For people not familiar with ancient Chinese mirrors: those mirrors are always lavishly decorated on the back, because being mirrors, they are flat on the front.
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As dubious or doubtful it sounds, have you seen the full potential of the character's spells without Spell Card Rule resstrictions? ZUN states a fact, which is or isn't hard to swallow. You say he's just exaggerating? Prove it. Oh, wait, you can't. Because like it was already said here, we will not see instances where the rules of Spell Cards will be ignored. In order to understand this, we must first understand what Spell Cards are - they are weakened, non-lethal versions of magical attacks, which are designed to be beautiful and avoidable, hence their descriptions sounding like an exaggeration of what we actually see in the games.
There are definite inconsistencies that are in Imperishable Night Spell Card descriptions that would make such argument not make sense.
If I were to take Imperishable Night literally, there are a lot of things I can claim. For example, the assertion that Melee > Danmaku, this is fact, because it is mentioned in Remilia's Last Word. That would mean any Danmaku attack is inferior, but Musou Tensei is Danmaku... Now, we have 2 separate spell cards making contradictory claims.
Kaguya's Impossible Request "Jewel from the Dragon's Neck -Five-Colored Shots-", did you know that it grants wishes? You can wish for anything with it.
The consumption of energy we see in the games when using big attacks is nothing more than the application of Spell Card rules in action. Powerful attacks should not be declared right off the bat.
There is nothing in the Spell Card rules that say powerful attacks cannot be used right off the bat. Yorihime's first special attack against Remilia was an extremely powerful one, in addition to hitting weakness.
The consumption of energy is meant to show how strong the card is and the amount of energy that user needs to use to do such a move.
where exactly does it say that Reimu becoms "unconscious" during Fantasy Nature?
This is an assumption, taken from Marisa's grimoire.
but it looks like she just closes her eyes; then, the danmaku aims itself and fires towards the enemy automatically.
That sounds like unconsciously attacking to me.
Wiki translation: I wonder if it's okay to eat gods like that...
Correct translation: I wonder if gods are easy to digest...
I see, that's an interesting comment... So what? Reimu is planning on eating some gods or something?
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We're still on about that? Alright. Let's talk about some details one by one.
For example, the assertion that Melee > Danmaku, this is fact, because it is mentioned in Remilia's Last Word. That would mean any Danmaku attack is inferior, but Musou Tensei is Danmaku... Now, we have 2 separate spell cards making contradictory claims.
The full description of Scarlet Destiny is: High speed scarlet. Showing her power straightly without any cheap tricks. In fact she's more of the physical type than magic type, dominating everyone with her superior physical strength. Melee > Danmaku.
It's not talking about what Remilia does during this particular Spell Card. In this context, it simply explains her mindset. It's not stating that melee is better than danmaku as a fact, it states that Remilia thinks way. This is even shown in SSiB. Unless someone points out there's a mistake in translation of those lines. Do you see her ever use a melee attack in that card? I surely didn't.
Kaguya's Impossible Request "Jewel from the Dragon's Neck -Five-Colored Shots-", did you know that it grants wishes? You can wish for anything with it.
Full description: One of the impossible demands Kaguya presented. Each jewel contains stars, and it's said that if you collect 7 of them, it'll grant anything you wish.
Note the expression "it's said that". This means it's not presented here as a fact, but as a rumor, unlike the effect of Fantasy Nature.
Yorihime's first special attack against Remilia was an extremely powerful one, in addition to hitting weakness.
Then again using Yorihime, a character who even ZUN refuses to put into any game due to how broken she is, as a comparison to Gensokyo's girls, is not going to have much weight in this argument. To her, summoning Gods may not be considered as breaking the rules or something that's too strong. It's as if she was having a duel against 4 stage 1 bosses, or even weaker. 1 bomb enough to break the enemy spell.
The consumption of energy is meant to show how strong the card is and the amount of energy that user needs to use to do such a move.
If this is true, then it contradicts the notion of powerful spells being allowed to be used right from the beginning. Every new battle in the games starts with both characters with no power. This power required to use Spell Cards is gained through hitting the enemy, grazing or getting hit. In other words, the battle needs to last for a while before anyone can activate a Spell Card.
That sounds like unconsciously attacking to me.
If floating away from "anything and everything" includes consciousness too, then yes. But closed eyes don't necessarily mean she has to be unconscious. It's not the only card where she uses homing danmaku, so having her eyes open may not even be necessary. Several of Reimu's Spell Card activations in Hisoutensoku show her sprite with closed eyes during the spell's effect, not just during FN.
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Can anyone put the link(s) where ZUN is talking about the Lunarian princess being too broken or something, please?
I also recall once reading somewhere that ZUN was talking about those 2 princess being too strong... or something like that in either one of ZUN manga extra or somewhere else. If anyone know what I'm talking about could you also put the link for that one also.
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Interview with ZUN in Symposium of Post-mysticicism (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Interview)
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Someone said that in official materials not drawn by ZUN, he "doesn't police the creative control" and that one can outright ignore anything not drawn by him.
I disagree with him/her, as I doubt ZUN would let other people mess with official materials without his consent, but what do you think?
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The only thing that he didn't write the script for is "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth", and he still at least determinated where certain characters should appear and such, so yeah, that's complete nonsense.
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If anything according to interviews Cuc posted about him in that ZUN updates thread, many other mangaka think he's a bit overly controlling with official Touhou works.
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In terms of artwork, there are things ZUN enforce strict creative control (that caused people to find him overly controlling), and there are things he's completely hands-off about.
ZUN is very exacting about the introduction and establishment of new elements (new characters; important plot details such as Remilia's coffin on her bed; etc), character expressions, and the cameo appearances of existing characters (since these reflect their interpersonal relationship).
Everything else - things already established, he may leave to the artist. For example, the main artist of SoPM, Masakichi said he received absolutely no instruction about his artwork. Similarly, neither ZUN or Tasofro has given any instruction about the opening scroll of HM: its content is entirely decided by the artist himself.
In practice, the reliability of artwork varies, and is better judged case-by-case.
Example 1: Hirasaka Makoto is the only artist who ever asked ZUN about the exact height differences between all characters, making SaBND and OSP the most reliable source of character height. But even someone as careful about abiding to canon as him has taken liberties - his exterior design of SDM is completely invented by himself.
Example 2: Harukawa Moe apparently has had little to no exposure to Touhou before. This is the only possible explanation for the fact that her version of Marisa's home has nothing in common with the version from fighting games. Yet she had spent a lot of time together with ZUN and their editor designing Kosuzu's summer clothes.
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Well, it's good that he's very exact about artwork regarding cameos due to the interpersonal relationships it could potentially portray, at least. I tended to rely on that assumption a lot of those when editting relationships in the Touhou wiki back in the day.
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It's not talking about what Remilia does during this particular Spell Card. In this context, it simply explains her mindset. It's not stating that melee is better than danmaku as a fact, it states that Remilia thinks way. This is even shown in SSiB. Unless someone points out there's a mistake in translation of those lines. Do you see her ever use a melee attack in that card? I surely didn't.
My argument is to not take a spell card literally. It doesn't matter if she uses Danmaku or Melee attack in that specific card. The point was that the card states Melee > Danmaku as a fact.
As for deciding upon if it is Remilia's opinion or not, how do you know that? Can you not then argue that it is Reimu's opinion that her card makes her invincible?
Then again using Yorihime, a character who even ZUN refuses to put into any game due to how broken she is, as a comparison to Gensokyo's girls, is not going to have much weight in this argument. To her, summoning Gods may not be considered as breaking the rules or something that's too strong. It's as if she was having a duel against 4 stage 1 bosses, or even weaker. 1 bomb enough to break the enemy spell.
Yorihime is too serious, so the main characters have no chance. Also do understand that both Yorihime and Toyohime are taught by Eirin, who alone, holds their current position as the moon's security force. I see nothing wrong with using Yorihime as an example, if we can use Eirin as an example.
If floating away from "anything and everything" includes consciousness too, then yes. But closed eyes don't necessarily mean she has to be unconscious. It's not the only card where she uses homing danmaku, so having her eyes open may not even be necessary. Several of Reimu's Spell Card activations in Hisoutensoku show her sprite with closed eyes during the spell's effect, not just during FN.
If doesn't cause her to go unconscious, that is even better, it means she is required to use energy. Like all other attacks, it takes energy.
My argument was that even if she goes unconscious, it will take energy, but if you think she doesn't, then that's better.
If this is true, then it contradicts the notion of powerful spells being allowed to be used right from the beginning. Every new battle in the games starts with both characters with no power. This power required to use Spell Cards is gained through hitting the enemy, grazing or getting hit. In other words, the battle needs to last for a while before anyone can activate a Spell Card.
It never says you can't use powerful spells in the beginning. Just because you cannot in a game, it does not mean a character in a story cannot. This is game play and story segregation, because it wouldn't be fun if everyone can start off with attacks that take half or all your life. It also makes for uninteresting story telling if a main character just begins a super powerful attack and one shots her opponent, unless of course, that was the point, like when they introduce a character and make her look badass.
For example, in the manga, Marisa starts off with a spell card right, then, goes straight into Final Spark. Remilia, on the other hand, was messing around and did not use any of her recognized attacks.
Someone said that in official materials not drawn by ZUN, he "doesn't police the creative control" and that one can outright ignore anything not drawn by him.
I disagree with him/her, as I doubt ZUN would let other people mess with official materials without his consent, but what do you think?
As the others have said, that's nonsense.
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The point was that the card states Melee > Danmaku as a fact.
As for deciding upon if it is Remilia's opinion or not, how do you know that? Can you not then argue that it is Reimu's opinion that her card makes her invincible?
I disagree. Fantasy Nature's flavour text is a description and explanation. Scarlet Destiny's is explaining Remilia's preference, and the last phrase is just more on that. I wouldn't even necessarily translate 弾幕より直接格闘 as melee being better than danmaku; just "melee over danmaku".
Also the unconsciousness argument is silly and I'm not sure why you seem to think that the state of consciousness affects stamina used in an attack, nor why you think Reimu literally goes unconscious, nor why you think being conscious necessitates using energy to attack.
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The oni are strong, not just in a relative sense, but in an absolute sense. Strength defines them as youkai. They can be tricked, sure, but never beaten in a fair fight. An oni who is not the strongest isn't an oni at all. Obviously then, Suika is the strongest oni, and Yuugi is also the strongest oni, and Kasen is the strongest too. Because they're all oni. Practically speaking that doesn't make much sense, but since they're oni they don't sweat the details.
Interesting. Any idea how Kishin fit into that?
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Interesting. Any idea how Kishin fit into that?
Well, I did just admit that it doesn't make any sense, didn't I? But in the spirit of answering the question I would say that Kishin are just oni who happened to become gods. It's not like gods are particularly impressive in this setting (see: Aki sisters) so the term doesn't necessarily imply "super oni" or anything like that. Just an oni god.
And even that has to assume that kishin are actually a form of oni, although I think that's pretty likely because of the name "Suiki", which is another famous oni from legend.
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The point was that the card states Melee > Danmaku as a fact.
No, it doesn't. Read the context, not just the text.
I see nothing wrong with using Yorihime as an example, if we can use Eirin as an example.
It's always possible for student to surpass the master. Was Eirin not being serious when she wanted to thwart the heroines' plans during IN? Was Kaguya not serious? Eirin may be wiser and the Watatsukis respect her, but Yorhimie's power alone may be even greater than both Kaguya and Eirin's combined. During IN, they also had to obey the Spell Card rules, so they also had to use a liminted number of them, even when both moon ladies could potentially have energy for countless more cards. In SSiB, every fight was a new duel, so even if Yorihime previously used several "bombs" this number was again replenished in a fight against a new opponent.
It never says you can't use powerful spells in the beginning. Just because you cannot in a game, it does not mean a character in a story cannot. This is game play and story segregation, because it wouldn't be fun if everyone can start off with attacks that take half or all your life. It also makes for uninteresting story telling if a main character just begins a super powerful attack and one shots her opponent, unless of course, that was the point, like when they introduce a character and make her look badass.
For example, in the manga, Marisa starts off with a spell card right, then, goes straight into Final Spark. Remilia, on the other hand, was messing around and did not use any of her recognized attacks.
Here we were discussing the idea of powerful attacks requiring lots of power. In Yorihime's case, she was basically bomb-spamming during all her duels, and even declared she could still win at least another (forgotten 6-digit number) of times in a row. Btw, she got hit more than once in that fight, so if each hit was supposed to mean 1 life down, she should have lost (or she jsut had a lot of lives). She literally ATE Marisa's star projectile. In danmaku games, yes we see characters starting off with a spell, but never with their ultimate one. The "power" or difficulty of these spells is also subjective, as every player may consider something easy, while another may consider the same thing too hard. I can certainly agree that the duels in the games are not in complete accord wtih the rules described in PMiSS. For instance, before every match it's first decided how many Spell Cards are going to be used. In the games, if you waste your bombs against one boss, you'll simply lack those bombs against the next one. Another thing is that PMiSS says that whoever uses up all of their cards frist, loses. In games, bombs are the player's Spell Cards. This would literally mean that you'd lose the duel if you used your last bomb against a boss and the boss still survived. Another thing stated in PMiSS is that physical attacks are not to be repeated. This is thrown out of the window in the fighting games. Non-lethality is also questionable when using things like throwing knives and trains as danmaku.
As for the official mangas, they unfortunately provide very few instances where we see actual danmaku duels. Perhaps they can use Last Words in the first moment of a duel, but we are never shown that. We do not know how many Master Sparks can Marisa cast in a row before she tires completely. Or how many "Gungnirs" Remilia can throw. Or how many things Flandre can "kyuu". We are simply told that if Reimu's floating ablitlity wasn't restrictied by Spell Card Rules' time limit, she'd be unbeatable.
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Was Eirin not being serious when she wanted to thwart the heroines' plans during IN? Was Kaguya not serious?
Actually no, not at all. Eirin had already succeeded before anyone arrived, and both her and Kaguya just wanted to play and let dawn come.
Another thing stated in PMiSS is that physical attacks are not to be repeated. This is thrown out of the window in the fighting games. Non-lethality is also questionable when using things like throwing knives and trains as danmaku.
That was a mistranslation that was recently corrected. It just says that you can't just repeat an attack after it's been defeated.
Non-lethality is usually explained by the things being thrown turning into something less solid and more magical, somehow.
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Actually no, not at all. Eirin had already succeeded before anyone arrived, and both her and Kaguya just wanted to play and let dawn come.
This implies that if Erin and Kaguya were being serious they wouln't have lost, because "The residents of Earth can never beat the residents of the moon."
That was a mistranslation that was recently corrected. It just says that you can't just repeat an attack after it's been defeated.
And even then it's not true in case of player's attacks, which is usually just one or 2 Spell Cards that can be repeated as many times in a battle as the player has bombs.
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How long does it usually take for house set remixes to come out? I'm excited for DDC's.
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Regarding Eirin, wasn't she purposely limiting her power under respect to Kaguya? Because "it would be shameful if a master has a servant stronger than her". That would throw the question about her power out the window, since no matter how strong she actually is, she'll never show more power than Kaguya.
Now, about Kaguya herself, the fact that the heroines could beat her could be because of several reasons. Maybe she's just that weak for a Lunarian, or she's not that good at danmaku (relative at her power level). Whatever it is, she's weaker than the Watatsukis.
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Regarding Eirin, wasn't she purposely limiting her power under respect to Kaguya? Because "it would be shameful if a master has a servant stronger than her". That would throw the question about her power out the window, since no matter how strong she actually is, she'll never show more power than Kaguya.
Now, about Kaguya herself, the fact that the heroines could beat her could be because of several reasons. Maybe she's just that weak for a Lunarian, or she's not that good at danmaku (relative at her power level). Whatever it is, she's weaker than the Watatsukis.
Power level discussions are a non-starter around here, as outlined in the sticky. I know, unwinnable pissing contests about our favorite 2hus are fun, but them's the rules.
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Eh, I honestly think you guys are a bit too strict regarding powerlevel discussions, and Eirin and Kaguya aren't even my favorite 2hus, but that wasn't my point. My point was that you shouldn't compare Eirin and Kaguya to the Watatsukis.
And regarding Spellcard rules, I don't think what's listed in PMiSS is the complete rules. If we're going by the assumption that Yorihime is in the player position and was just bomb-spamming attacks, there must be some kind of other rules regarding these "bombs". So far what PMiSS rules say only applies to enemy boss characters. I like how one fancomic (Touhou NekokayounInthink?) portrays it, in that you have an "offensive role" and one "defensive" role, with differing rules each. And the non-story mode fighting games are just both characters being on the offensive.
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Eh, I honestly think you guys are a bit too strict regarding powerlevel discussions, and Eirin and Kaguya aren't even my favorite 2hus, but that wasn't my point.
It almost never happens that we actually need to ask people to back down from one. And believe me, powerlevel discussions are a tremendous headache, and as pointless as Cave v. Touhou or SWR v. IaMP. We didn't create this rule for some arbitrary random reason.
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How canonically are the stories in "Touhou: Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" really?
Even if the script wasn't written by ZUN, I don't think that the artist can put whatever dialogue he/she want in the story, isn't it?
- Also does the hourai elixir immune you from any possible disease/virus... completely immune from any illness in a sense and etc... or does it simply put your soul out of concept of reality and thus make it still possible to caught a disease?
- Does anyone know any similar song by other touhou character to "Suika theme - Broken moon"?
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How canonically are the stories in "Touhou: Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" really?
Even if the script wasn't written by ZUN, I don't think that the artist can put whatever dialogue he/she want in the story, isn't it?
This is debated, but I think general conscensus is "the events depicted happened, if not necessarily in the way that they were shown". At any rate, I wouldn't use the details of that manga in canon discussions.
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This implies that if Erin and Kaguya were being serious they wouln't have lost, because "The residents of Earth can never beat the residents of the moon."
I don't think that necessarily follows, even if you could take it that way. I was just pointing out that Eirin and Kaguya's plans already succeeded and the only point of the duel was for them to fight until dawn so Eirin can give back the moon. But since the heroines stopped the night that wouldn't happen, and so they were at a stalemate wasting time until Kaguya noticed and used her ability to fast-forward it to normal.
And even then it's not true in case of player's attacks, which is usually just one or 2 Spell Cards that can be repeated as many times in a battle as the player has bombs.
Again, I was just pointing out the mistranslation, because it's been pretty long-standing and is important enough to take note of. Also, :gameplay:
Also does the hourai elixir immune you from any possible disease/virus... completely immune from any illness in a sense and etc... or does it simply put your soul out of concept of reality and thus make it still possible to caught a disease?
One effect of the Hourai Elixir is total immunity to sickness. Ghost Team's dialogue suggests it might have to do with your liver, at least when you aren't yet immortal. When you are immortal, we know the body can still take damage, but since the previous effect is becoming impervious to sickness that takes care of it.
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Kaguya's Impossible Request "Jewel from the Dragon's Neck -Five-Colored Shots-", did you know that it grants wishes? You can wish for anything with it.
Full description: One of the impossible demands Kaguya presented. Each jewel contains stars, and it's said that if you collect 7 of them, it'll grant anything you wish.
Note the expression "it's said that". This means it's not presented here as a fact, but as a rumor, unlike the effect of Fantasy Nature.
I'm really late here but uh
isnt that just a dragonball joke
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It almost never happens that we actually need to ask people to back down from one. And believe me, powerlevel discussions are a tremendous headache, and as pointless as Cave v. Touhou or SWR v. IaMP. We didn't create this rule for some arbitrary random reason.
Yeah, let's get that over with.
Also, just curious, how would the Lunarians react if Mokou ever went to the moon?
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Probably just send her to Earth. It's all they did to Kaguya, after all. They consider Earth to be basically worse than Hell, so they probably think that that's punishment enough.
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One more about the Hourai Elixir:
Wiki states Chang'e to be one of the four persons who drank the elixir, but in Eirin's character page, Chang'e is merely understood as the Chinese equivalent of Kaguya. So how is it? Are there only 3 people who ever drank the Elixir? Or Chang'e and Kaguya are not one and the same?
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I don't think Chang'e is supposed to be the Chinese equivalent to Kaguya. I think this is a misunderstanding based on Chang'e having drank the Hourai Elixir and being sentenced. According to SSiB 2, Chang'e is apparently still imprisoned on (in?) the Moon. We also have Reisen II referring to Lady Jouga (actually Chang'e) and Lady Kaguya separately and during different time periods. Also the moon rabbits were supposed to pound medicine on the orders of Chang'e, following the story that Chang'e wanted another Elixir for her husband after drinking the Elixir herself (which itself is odd considering Chang'e's real name being Lunarian implies she's native to the moon where in the story they were human and she went to the Moon post-immortality). None of this really makes any sense if Kaguya is Chang'e.
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Actually, Wikipedia has 3 versions of the story about Chang'e. In one she's an immortal from heaven, in the second, she's a girl working in the Jade Emperor's palace (still in heaven) and the third one presents her as a human mortal.
Now this is starting to get more confusing. If Chang'e drank the fordidden medicine, why wasn't she condemned to Earth like Kaguya? Was it her consumption of the elixir that made the Lunarians decide to ban using the elixir?
The fist thing that comes to mind is that Chang'e consumed the whole immortality pill, when only one half of it was necessary for her to regain/gain immortality. Having taken an extra dose, she began to ascend to the Moon, so it's probably the effect of the pill that is keeping her on the Moon whether she or the Lunarians want it or not.
Another question is what medicine are the moon rabbits making? They can't possibly be making more Hourai Elixir, can they? Only Eirin truly knows how to prepare it, and even then she needs Kaguya's power as a reagent. It would seem logical that the Moon has lost its capability to reproduce the elixir since Kaguya's exile.
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Actually, Wikipedia has 3 versions of the story about Chang'e. In one she's an immortal from heaven, in the second, she's a girl working in the Jade Emperor's palace (still in heaven) and the third one presents her as a human mortal.
Having three versions isn't important, ZUN just takes what he wants, and often times melds everything together on purpose.
Now this is starting to get more confusing. If Chang'e drank the fordidden medicine, why wasn't she condemned to Earth like Kaguya? Was it her consumption of the elixir that made the Lunarians decide to ban using the elixir?
One option I see is that ZUN is using the "floated to the moon" part of Chang'e's story and made it impossible for her to leave the moon for some reason. I briefly considered the possibility that Chang'e doesn't actually exist and was thought up by the Lunarians to get the moon rabbits to work, but the superstition about the Chang'e Program by the Lunarians sort of gets in the way. My thoughts below make this unnecessary anyways.
The fist thing that comes to mind is that Chang'e consumed the whole immortality pill, when only one half of it was necessary for her to regain/gain immortality. Having taken an extra dose, she began to ascend to the Moon, so it's probably the effect of the pill that is keeping her on the Moon whether she or the Lunarians want it or not.
The medicine is explicitly said to be the Hourai Elixir, but yeah funny to see the same conclusion.
Another question is what medicine are the moon rabbits making? They can't possibly be making more Hourai Elixir, can they? Only Eirin truly knows how to prepare it, and even then she needs Kaguya's power as a reagent. It would seem logical that the Moon has lost its capability to reproduce the elixir since Kaguya's exile.
That's the point, I think. The rabbits aren't meant to ever stop pounding the medicine as Chang'e's punishment. They can't ever finish making the medicine, just as Chang'e will never die.
oh also Eirin mentions Chang'e and Kaguya as two different people
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Who says Chang'e was never exiled to Earth? Based on what they did to Kaguya, that seems to be a temporary punishment. I mean, they sent people down to take her home after she served it. Maybe they would have locked her up like Chang'e afterwards? Remember that they consider Earth the worst possible place: they probably think that being locked up on the moon is a better fate.
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I disagree. Fantasy Nature's flavour text is a description and explanation. Scarlet Destiny's is explaining Remilia's preference, and the last phrase is just more on that. I wouldn't even necessarily translate 弾幕より直接格闘 as melee being better than danmaku; just "melee over danmaku".
Then, we disagree. The emphasis here is taking the wording literally. The idea is that some flavour text are being taken literally, while others are ignored is odd.
I'm really late here but uh
isnt that just a dragonball joke
Yes, it is. That is the point, the example is to show that you should not be taking the spell cards literally.
I think Reimu's spell card is a reference to Kenshiro's, from Fist of the North Star, ultimate attack, which is supposed to be invincible and unbeatable, so a description of something similar would also follow suit.
Also the unconsciousness argument is silly and I'm not sure why you seem to think that the state of consciousness affects stamina used in an attack, nor why you think Reimu literally goes unconscious, nor why you think being conscious necessitates using energy to attack.
That's because it is two states of consciousness, so I can see an argument on it.
In either case, if Reimu doesn't go unconscious, it doesn't matter. The argument here is much simpler, it becomes the question of why would Musou Tensei take no energy to use compared to every other skill? There is nothing to prove this logic. In the game, we know that it uses up cards, which can be an assumption of energy requirement.
It's always possible for student to surpass the master. Was Eirin not being serious when she wanted to thwart the heroines' plans during IN? Was Kaguya not serious? Eirin may be wiser and the Watatsukis respect her, but Yorhimie's power alone may be even greater than both Kaguya and Eirin's combined.
I will just say I strongly disagree with your assessment. I won't post any arguments on this, because this would be a power level discussion. If you see me on some other sites, then we can start this argument with me and I will post my reasonings why that is so.
Probably just send her to Earth. It's all they did to Kaguya, after all. They consider Earth to be basically worse than Hell, so they probably think that that's punishment enough.
I personally think that's a tongue in cheek thing. While they do consider it that way, they do want to punish the culprit first, if they can, before sending them to earth. Kaguya is apparently above their level of technology, as they did try to execute her and fail.
An example would be when the youkai first invaded the moon, they punished the youkai, then, sent them back.
Maybe they would have locked her up like Chang'e afterwards? Remember that they consider Earth the worst possible place: they probably think that being locked up on the moon is a better fate.
Heh, that's an interesting and plausible take on it.
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I personally think that's a tongue in cheek thing. While they do consider it that way, they do want to punish the culprit first, if they can, before sending them to earth. Kaguya is apparently above their level of technology, as they did try to execute her and fail.
An example would be when the youkai first invaded the moon, they punished the youkai, then, sent them back.
They'll probably see that she's a Hourai person and just cut to the chase. Then again, maybe they're more sadistic and will kill her for a while before sending her back.
I don't really think it'a tongue in the cheek; it is, after all, a place filled to the brim with impurity, and they really hate that stuff up there.
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Then, we disagree. The emphasis here is taking the wording literally. The idea is that some flavour text are being taken literally, while others are ignored is odd.
During this conversation we have, in fact, taken every description literally. Scarlet Destiny can be taken literally, because it literally states what Remilia's preference in battles is. Kaguya's Jewel From the Dragon's Neck can also be taken literally, as it literally states what a rumor connected to the mentioned jewel is. Fantasy Nature states what it does and what it would result in should the rules be ignored. With Grimoire of Marisa we have 2 canon sources claiming the same thing.
In either case, if Reimu doesn't go unconscious, it doesn't matter. The argument here is much simpler, it becomes the question of why would Musou Tensei take no energy to use compared to every other skill? There is nothing to prove this logic. In the game, we know that it uses up cards, which can be an assumption of energy requirement.
Which has been explained time and time again that this exceptional and unique skill enables her to float away from "anything and everything" and provides no method for Reimu's defeat. If it relied on a limited source, she'd be, of course, defeatable by simply surviving her card until it ends. The time limit is its only limitation in the Spell Card system. Even if it would require any form of energy to trigger, once Reimu floats away from it all, there is nothing that can be done about it. Energy consumption is contained within the "anything and everything" category, and Reimu is able to float away from even that.
I will just say I strongly disagree with your assessment. I won't post any arguments on this, because this would be a power level discussion. If you see me on some other sites, then we can start this argument with me and I will post my reasonings why that is so.
There's always the private messaging function.
I personally think that's a tongue in cheek thing. While they do consider it that way, they do want to punish the culprit first, if they can, before sending them to earth. Kaguya is apparently above their level of technology, as they did try to execute her and fail. An example would be when the youkai first invaded the moon, they punished the youkai, then, sent them back.
You can't really compare an individual's crime against the law with a military invasion and call the youkai's defeat as a form of Lunarian punishment. They were a mass of beings out of control. Routing them first before sending them to Earth is as logical as it can be. Sending them back to Earth, now that was the punishment. The elixir is only forbidden to be taken by the Lunarians, it doesn't say anywhere this law applies to Earthlings too. They are already impure by defalut and why should the Lunarians care if any human decides to make his/her short life of misery and impurity into an eternal life of misery and impurity?
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So is there any given reason why the Former Hell was so largely abandoned? I mean, I know it got overpopulated so the Yamas had to make a New Hell, but why would almost every one then leave the Former Hell behind to move there? You think New Hell would just be an expansion. I mgiht be looking too deep into this, but still.
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The Former Capital was where the workers of Hell lived. Know how, when there's a mining-based community, the moment the mineral being mined is depleted, the whole thing gets abandoned because people need to go look for work elsewhere? It's the same thing, I'd wager.
Besides, not everyone moved. Some of Hell's native fauna remained, like hell crows, and a good deal of vengeful spirits and faries are still there.
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Which has been explained time and time again that this exceptional and unique skill enables her to float away from "anything and everything" and provides no method for Reimu's defeat. If it relied on a limited source, she'd be, of course, defeatable by simply surviving her card until it ends. The time limit is its only limitation in the Spell Card system. Even if it would require any form of energy to trigger, once Reimu floats away from it all, there is nothing that can be done about it. Energy consumption is contained within the "anything and everything" category, and Reimu is able to float away from even that.
Why do you speak as if you know what exactly happens during Fantasy Nature? Smells of headcanon to me. "Floating away from reality" might just mean that nothing from outside can touch her, it doesn't imply anything considering her energy usage. For all we know, she gets tired and hungry while using it at least as much as when she's not. There's nothing that directly contradicts that. And don't go telling about "anything and everything" again, that's just taking a single line of TRANSLATION literally. As for "no one can defeat this", it might just mean "this attack is too dense to evade, defend or counterattack against if used against you". Doesn't go against the literal sense either.
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Why do you speak as if you know what exactly happens during Fantasy Nature? Smells of headcanon to me. "Floating away from reality" might just mean that nothing from outside can touch her, it doesn't imply anything considering her energy usage. For all we know, she gets tired and hungry while using it at least as much as when she's not. There's nothing that directly contradicts that. And don't go telling about "anything and everything" again, that's just taking a single line of TRANSLATION literally. As for "no one can defeat this", it might just mean "this attack is too dense to evade, defend or counterattack against if used against you". Doesn't go against the literal sense either.
Headcanon? I'm one of the opposers of "unbeatable Reimu" ideology. I don't like the notion of "perfect heroine with a perfect power", because, frankly, there's hardly anything more boring than that from a storytelling perspective. What I'm doing now is looking at the whole thing from the opposite view point and trying to acquire as many valid reasons why ZUN's words should or could be ingnored in this particular case, using arguments I've seen other people use to advocate the perfection of Fantasy Nature.
"Floating away from reality", "floating away from anything and everything", "nothing from outside can touch her"... It makes no difference. We're just playing with words and synonyms. Think of it this way: Reimu floats away to her incorporeal state. She is inside her own universe with its own rules, whereas "everything from outside" encompasses not just the means of physical harm, but also any laws this "outside" universe operates on.
For all we know, she gets tired and hungry while using it at least as much as when she's not.
No, we don't know that. Have you asked her to do Fantasy Nature for you and she told you after 30 minutes she was getting hungry? Her in-game Fantasy Nature is a spell card that has to have a time limit, that's why it ends, not because she can't sustain it any longer.
As for "no one can defeat this", it might just mean "this attack is too dense to evade, defend or counterattack against if used against you". Doesn't go against the literal sense either.
I doubt that very much. It doesn't talk about density or being unavoidable. It's talking about time limit as a defining factor that provides the only means in a fair duel to defeat Reimu using this card.
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May I have an honest opinion of you guys of what you really/personally think about this matter still going on.
Well the reason why I asking this not only to you is that I personally don't see that this discussion is really going anywhere with 2 opposing side continuously arguing for whether Reimu "may" use or "may not" use FN continuously outside of spell card rule battle. Just go ask ZUN and we will be fix, joking
Fonzi may I know your personal opinion of what you really think about the matter concerning Fantasy Nature for why Reimu "may" or "may not" use FN indefinitely while outside of spell card rule battle?
For simplicity reason 3 possible answer are already given:
1) YES, you believe/ or at least think that Reimu is capable of using FN indefinitely (not drain at all while in that state).
2) NO, you don't believe/think/not really convince... that she can that spell indefinitely (for whatever reason you may have).
3) MAYBE, that she "can or cannot" use that spell indefinitely... or at least presence certain limitation(s) of using it continuously, either way you can't absolutely know for sure.
4) because... :wat:
No offense here.
Well while I'm at it I don't personally think that Reimu can use FN indefinitely simply because I don't think that she can do it.:]
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May I have an honest opinion of you guys of what you really/personally think about this matter still going on.
Well the reason why I asking this not only to you is that I personally don't see that this discussion is really going anywhere with 2 opposing side continuously arguing for whether Reimu "may" use or "may not" use FN continuously outside of spell card rule battle
Without pointing any fingers, this is a recurring phenomenon in this thread: someone asks a question, there'll be a couple solid answers, but then there'll be pages of tedious hair-splitting over minor distinctions without differences. Or others will inject their own pet theories with really tangential evidence and argue that these pet theories are all equally valid. As if the point of this thread is to argue the veracity of different pet theories rather than to attempt to give an answer to a question that hews as close to canon as possible.
Again, I'm not singling anyone out here. I just think that, in the interest of helping people who come to these threads, we could all exercise a little more restraint and try to avoid circular nitpick arguments, and maybe stop treating all theoretical explanations equally. Just my two cents.
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Thanks to all the replies I've received, I've become aware of all possible reasons why Reimu's ability may not be as perfect as presented in canon. I used reverse-approach, arguing in favoer of an opinion that I personally don't support, and being persistant in this to milk as much reasons from various users here for why Reimu's ability is or isn't a game-breaker. Up to this point, I have still not received an unquestionable reason why FN can't be used infinitely. And I probably won't, because there just isn't any.
Fonzi may I know your personal opinion of what you really think about the matter concerning Fantasy Nature for why Reimu "may" or "may not" use FN indefinitely while outside of spell card rule battle?
I have passed through stages of believing 2), later convinced to belive 1) and now left with an impression that 3) is as close to truth as I'll be able to get in this matter. Lucky for me, I can take liberties in creative writing and adjust canon to my liking even if ZUN will confirm Reimu's FN to be perfect during his next interview.
@Tengu
Sometimes, without these arguments we'd be unable to reach a correct answer. People have a tendency to look at things from only one angle and when faced with an opposing opinion backed by reason and evidence, they are proven that thier answer is not as certain as they might have originally thought. It would be of little help if all this thread ever allowed was to ask "yes/no" types of questions.
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Fonzi, I'd like to point out that there is a dedicated thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14800.0.html) where discussions like this one can take place without bothering those who don't want to take part in them (like yours truly). There's even another one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14887.0.html) for a broader range of topics. Knowingly holding a discussion that's not supposed to have a definite answer in a thread for answering simple questions isn't very polite. I'd be glad if such discussions were held in a more appropriate place in the future. Pretty please?
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Sometimes, without these arguments we'd be unable to reach a correct answer. People have a tendency to look at things from only one angle and when faced with an opposing opinion backed by reason and evidence, they are proven that thier answer is not as certain as they might have originally thought. It would be of little help if all this thread ever allowed was to ask "yes/no" types of questions.
I never said nor implied that only "yes/no" questions were allowed. What I'm saying is: the circular nitpicking and hairsplitting is extreme unhelpful. For a helpful gauge: if you find yourself repeating arguments, for example, maybe it's time to step back from the thread and take the argument to PM. Otherwise, what we end up with is a lot of circular arguing, nitpicking, and a lot of pushing of pet theories based on the flimsiest evidence. The arguing actually obfuscates getting any closer to an answer, acting more as derails than some kind of distillation process.
Yes, many things Touhou have no solid answers. And that's fine. We have plenty of space in other threads for hashing out the finer points of fan theory. But these needling derails are getting pretty tedious, and Biakmon isn't the first person to bring this up.
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Fonzi, I'd like to point out that there is a dedicated thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14800.0.html) where discussions like this one can take place without bothering those who don't want to take part in them (like yours truly). There's even another one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14887.0.html) for a broader range of topics. Knowingly holding a discussion that's not supposed to have a definite answer in a thread for answering simple questions isn't very polite. I'd be glad if such discussions were held in a more appropriate place in the future. Pretty please?
Since the topic arose in this thread, I only saw it as fitting to question a certain answer on this thread, without even thinking of moving this somewhere else. Likewise, the theory thread didn't come to mind, as both parties were convinced that they had canon on thier side, which only later turned out to be hypothetical. I didn't intend to be rude. but I feel like I was. I never even said "thank you", so even if a bit delayed, I say thanks to all of you for taking your time to answer and for putting up with my not-so-charming attitude.
I rest my case on this one.
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1) Has Reimu ever really done any real extermination to any youkai? If not, why do you think is that so.
As far as I can recall she only beat them up and just leave them be (although I kind of admit they don't quite pose as a real threat to Gensokyo ot its inhabitant mainly human to a certain limit that it). The one I can see Reimu really goes for extermination are the one in Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery.
2) Also does anyone have any idea know how many generations of Hakurei is there at present?
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1) Has Reimu ever really done any real extermination to any youkai? If not why is this so.
No instances of this were shown, but when there were news of man-eating wolf-turning-youkai, she was intent to put the thing down for good. I guess those sentient enough to learn a lesson are spared.
2) Also does anyone have any idea know how many generations of Hakurei is there at present?
There are mentions of 13th Hakurei Shrine Maiden in PCB prologue, but that isn't Reimu, so there are more generations than that.
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You can't really compare an individual's crime against the law with a military invasion and call the youkai's defeat as a form of Lunarian punishment. They were a mass of beings out of control.
No, you misunderstand, they said they send them back for worse to wear or something similar. This would imply, beat them down more than necessary, then send them back, instead of just sending them back, which would be punishment enough, if they really think that was the case.
The elixir is only forbidden to be taken by the Lunarians, it doesn't say anywhere this law applies to Earthlings too. They are already impure by defalut and why should the Lunarians care if any human decides to make his/her short life of misery and impurity into an eternal life of misery and impurity?
I don't understand this response? Kaguya took the elixir, so she was executed for it, that is her punishment. However, that didn't work, because of her power, so they sent her to Earth. Here is her profile, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Kaguya_Houraisan. This is mentioned there.
Thanks to all the replies I've received, I've become aware of all possible reasons why Reimu's ability may not be as perfect as presented in canon. I used reverse-approach, arguing in favoer of an opinion that I personally don't support, and being persistant in this to milk as much reasons from various users here for why Reimu's ability is or isn't a game-breaker. Up to this point, I have still not received an unquestionable reason why FN can't be used infinitely. And I probably won't, because there just isn't any.
You will probably never receive unquestionable reason against it either. There is simply not enough information to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt. Just information that favors one case over another. This is pretty much true in a lot of other interpretations in Touhou, since a lot of stuff is left fairly open ended.
1) Has Reimu ever really done any real extermination to any youkai? If not, why do you think is that so.
As far as I can recall she only beat them up and just leave them be (although I kind of admit they don't quite pose as a real threat to Gensokyo ot its inhabitant mainly human to a certain limit that it). The one I can see Reimu really goes for extermination are the one in Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery.
You already mentioned it, in Forbidden Scrollery.
Reimu does not really exterminate youkais, because she has nothing against them. You can say she has no innate bias against youkai, even if it is her duty to exterminate them. This is probably why she is forever poor, as she won't receive donations if she doesn't do her job properly.
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I don't understand this response? Kaguya took the elixir, so she was executed for it, that is her punishment. However, that didn't work, because of her power, so they sent her to Earth. Here is her profile, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Kaguya_Houraisan. This is mentioned there.
And Kaguya is a what? A human? No. She's a Lunarian. The law forbidding the ingestion of Hourai Elixir applied to her too, princess or not. The question was : "How would the Lunarians react if Mokou ever went to the moon?" Mokou is a human. Lunarians used elixir to tempt the humans from Earth, they never mention that humans are forbidden to drink it. Although they probably never did, because they were deceived or the task necessary to obtain it was like Kaguya's impossible request. The question is a "what if" scenario, but this scenario is not unprecedented. The Moon has already had visitors in the past. Mizue no Uranoshimako - kept alive and under false information that he was in the Dragon's Palace, then sent to Earth, hundreds of years later and killed off by Eirin's little gift. Then there was the 1st and 2nd Genso-lunar war. In both cases, the intruders were beaten and sent back (casualties unknown). But they kept Reimu up there in order to clean the suspicion off their name. Then sent her back to Earth. So if Mokou somehow ended up on the Moon, they could: a) send her back b) try to kill her, fail, and then send her back or c) lock her up
What follows is just my theory, so don't quote me on it: Eirin claims that those who drink the elixir take on the same taint as the humans. (CiLR chapter 1). If this is the case, having an impure being on the Moon for a prolonged period of time could result in tainting the Moon's perfectly pure environment and thus, threatening the infinite lifespans of all its inhabitants. This is contradicted by the Lunarians' desire to bring both Kaguya and Eirin back to the Moon. But perhaps it is due to their desire to have the Sage of the Moon back home as well as the princess, who was believed to be punsihed enough. But there may be another reason why they wanted to do this. They didn't want to allow to create any more Hourai Immortals. After they saw how Kaguya was being a little more generous about giving people like the emperor or the old bamboo cutter a dose of the elixir, they decided it would be better to isolate the princess from the humans and bring her back, despite being as impure as them. But even if Kaguya doesn't share the elixir with anyone anyomre and even if Eirin refuses to make any more, there is still a way for every single Earthling to gain immortality. As unlikely as it sounds, by eating the liver of a Hourai Immortal. This creates a possiblity for another potential invasion, led and fought by immortals and if I was a Lunarian living in the capital, that would unsettle me, to say the least.
1) Has Reimu ever really done any real extermination to any youkai? If not, why do you think is that so.
As far as I can recall she only beat them up and just leave them be (although I kind of admit they don't quite pose as a real threat to Gensokyo ot its inhabitant mainly human to a certain limit that it). The one I can see Reimu really goes for extermination are the one in Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery.
Her usual "beat the youkai up with danmaku" is what she refers to as extermination, which is always just a temporary matter. She doesn't ever permanently exterminate any youkai. And fairies don't count, as they are naturally immortal anyway.
Reimu does not really exterminate youkais, because she has nothing against them. You can say she has no innate bias against youkai, even if it is her duty to exterminate them.
No bias?
"From now on, I'm going to exterminate every youkai just because they are youkai!" - Reimu Hakurei, WaHH ch. 8
"I'll beat anyone who's a friend to youkai!" - Reimu Hakurei, UFO, stage 6
Kyouko: "It's a temple for youkai that is kind to youkai"
Reimu: "Well, then I'll have to exterminate you right away!" - Ten Desires, stage 2
"I was in the middle of indiscriminately exterminating any youkai I find." - Reimu Hakurei, Phantasmagoria of Flower View, stage 7
""On the way back, a youkai was just sitting there minding its own business. And it was enjoying a book, too!... I tried to exterminate it with a surprise attack, but it retaliated! It was pretty cocky and strong. I let my guard down, so I didn't expect shots to come from behind..." - Reimu Hakurei, Curiosities of Lotus Asia, chapter 1
She treats everyone the same. However, since her job is youkai-hunting, she acts particularly strict with youkai, but she doesn't really care much about humans or youkai. This is a recurring line in Reimu's profiles ranging from MoF up to TD.
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What he meant, I think, is that she doesn't have a personal grudge towards them. She just acts like that 'cause it's her job to do so. Miko did hear that her innermost desire is a world with no violence, after all.
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So Reimu is a tsundere? How cute.
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Miko: So you say you want to exterminate youkai and create a human-only world. But you truly desire a peace that doesn't require violence, don't you?
Reimu: Ugh. Th-that's not true.
Miko: Hmhm, I can read your mind like an open book. Shall I offer you some advice on how to keep Gensokyo's peace, another time? Some "a-d-v-i-c-e".
[...]
Reimu: A-anyway, break it up right now! Before I blow my lid!
So Reimu is a tsundere?
...yep.
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Does anyone know the name of the song at 11:44 - 【Touhou MMD】Legend of Flower Master: Episode 1 (English subs) - youtube?
- Also the name of that version of the song at 11:05 【Touhou MMD】Legend of Flower Master: Episode 2 (English subs), please.
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You want the name of that version of the song, or of the original song? I can't find the former, but the latter is "Lovely Mound of Cherry Blossoms ~ Flower of Japan", Yuuka's theme from Kioh Gyoku.
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Does anyone know the name of the song at 11:44 - 【Touhou MMD】Legend of Flower Master: Episode 1 (English subs) - youtube?
I think I found it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8YXkGfpeGo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8YXkGfpeGo)
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I think I found it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8YXkGfpeGo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8YXkGfpeGo)
Thanks that is the one I was looking for.
- There also the version of the song at 11:05 - 【Touhou MMD】Legend of Flower Master: Episode 2 (English subs) and the piano piece at 5: 20 Ep 4.
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And the second one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJKluAR5mQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJKluAR5mQ)
The piano arrange sounds like Broken Moon.
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No bias?
Yes, what Sagus said. She isn't biased against youkai. She attacks youkai, because it is her job, not some personal feelings that she habors against youkai.
And Kaguya is a what? A human? No. She's a Lunarian. The law forbidding the ingestion of Hourai Elixir applied to her too, princess or not. The question was : "How would the Lunarians react if Mokou ever went to the moon?" Mokou is a human. Lunarians used elixir to tempt the humans from Earth, they never mention that humans are forbidden to drink it.
Yes, and that is why I don't understand your response. My response was never to the question "How would the Lunarians react if Mokou ever went to the moon?". I only mentioned what they did to Kaguya and how they first wanted to execute her before sending her to Earth.
Then there was the 1st and 2nd Genso-lunar war. In both cases, the intruders were beaten and sent back (casualties unknown). But they kept Reimu up there in order to clean the suspicion off their name. Then sent her back to Earth.
First and second Genso war is different. In the first one, the youkai were punished, at least implicitly according to how they worded it, before they were sent back. Second Genso war, nothing happens to the intruder, except for Reimu, but that is because Yorihime needed her to clear the confusion. Remilia, Marisa, and Sakuya did not as much as get a slap in the wrist or anything like that, just simply sent back. They were able to relax and enjoy the ocean after the fight. Which was their intention anyway.
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Yes, what Sagus said. She isn't biased against youkai. She attacks youkai, because it is her job, not some personal feelings that she habors against youkai.
Alright.
Yes, and that is why I don't understand your response. My response was never to the question "How would the Lunarians react if Mokou ever went to the moon?". I only mentioned what they did to Kaguya and how they first wanted to execute her before sending her to Earth.
I think I understand now where the problem is. You were just saying what happened to Kaguya (which did happen to her), and I thought you were answering the mentioned question based on what happened to Kaguya. If that's the case, we've cleared up the misundersanding and you can consider this matter closed.
First and second Genso war is different. In the first one, the youkai were punished, at least implicitly according to how they worded it, before they were sent back. Second Genso war, nothing happens to the intruder, except for Reimu, but that is because Yorihime needed her to clear the confusion. Remilia, Marisa, and Sakuya did not as much as get a slap in the wrist or anything like that, just simply sent back. They were able to relax and enjoy the ocean after the fight. Which was their intention anyway.
"Yes, and she used that ability to bring a throng of youkai here long ago. Of course, we sent them back much worse for the wear." This line can be interpreted in more ways than one. It could simply mean that they defeated all the youkai and sent them back. If you think it means the youkai got some sort of other punishment after they were crushed and before they were sent back to Earth, that's your opinion.
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Sorry if this isn't the right place for this, I couldn't find anything related in TARC so I figured I'd try the art board.
[ruro]Miscellaneous Questions thread is the place for this sort of thing[/ruro]
Does anyone know if Collateral Damage Studios' Gears Phantasia illustration book has been scanned by someone yet?
Not asking for a link, just wanting to know if it's scanned so I can hopefully find it on my own. A quick google hasn't shown anything.
Edit: Here's the cover image, I totally forgot it.
(http://sadpanda.us/images/1806329-2KKW4WV.jpg)
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Silly question, but I've been wondering about it since someone brought it up:
Does youkai/fairy/etc have belly buttons? :blush:
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Well, Kokoro has one, at least. I'd think the others also have it.
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Well, Kokoro has one, at least. I'd think the others also have it.
So they're mammals? Or they're just made in human's image... damn, I felt like some preacher or something....
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They are beings born from human imagination. I don't think they fall into any particular animal group.
I mean, Kokoro was 66 masks before becoming a tsukumogami. Nobody gave birth to her in the traditional sense. She has a belly button because she has a human form, and humans have belly buttons. I'd assume this applies for any youkai that have a human form.
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This line can be interpreted in more ways than one. It could simply mean that they defeated all the youkai and sent them back. If you think it means the youkai got some sort of other punishment after they were crushed and before they were sent back to Earth, that's your opinion.
Just compare to then and now, Lunar Genso 1 and 2. In 1, "Yes, and she used that ability to bring a throng of youkai here long ago. Of course, we sent them back much worse for the wear." This happened. In Lunar Genso War 2, that did not happen.
What I am saying is not them getting punishment after they got crushed. What I am saying is that the fact that they got crushed like that is punishment. Compare it to the second war, nothing like that happened. After Remilia and co. was beaten, they were relaxing at the beach. You see Reimu complained that why weren't they punished at all?
This is different from the first Genso War, where they were taught the they won't be coming to invade the moon anytime soon lesson.
Does youkai/fairy/etc have belly buttons? :blush:
They might. That's kind of hard to say.
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Just compare to then and now, Lunar Genso 1 and 2. In 1, "Yes, and she used that ability to bring a throng of youkai here long ago. Of course, we sent them back much worse for the wear." This happened. In Lunar Genso War 2, that did not happen.
What I am saying is not them getting punishment after they got crushed. What I am saying is that the fact that they got crushed like that is punishment. Compare it to the second war, nothing like that happened. After Remilia and co. was beaten, they were relaxing at the beach. You see Reimu complained that why weren't they punished at all?
This is different from the first Genso War, where they were taught the they won't be coming to invade the moon anytime soon lesson.
And why do you think that is so? Because the so-called Genso-Lunar war 2 was not even a war in the first place. They were 4 girls who landed on the Moon in a rocket that shattered and all they wanted was to see the capital (save Remilia maybe.) How can we compare 4 stranded humans (well, 3 and one vampire) who don't even have any ill intentions towards the Moon with a mass invasion of hundres or thousands of hostile youkai with a clear intention to conquer it? The girls in SSiB didn't even attack when they saw Yorihime and the moon rabbits, because that was never their intention. How can you expect their punishment to be a beating as severe as that which the invading youkai have received over a millenium ago? If taken figuratively, you can also call the conclusion of the girls' adventure on the Monn in SSiB as "crushing defeat". They were given an option to go back to Earth, but instead, insisted to have a danmaku battle, which they all lost. An adequate measure to an adequate situation. The more severe the trespass, the more severe the consequences for the trespasser. These two events cannot be approached with the same level of seriousness.
But maybe I'm wrong. We didn't see the first war taking place, just characters mentioning it. It could have had the same light-hearted atmosphere to it as what we saw in SSiB, only in a larger scale. Their punishment would not have to be anything worse for them than for the 4 girls in the manga. But I suppose when you want to teach someone a lesson (I'm talking about Yukari now and her attempt to make the hostile youkai of Earth less hostile by introducing them to an "unbeatable enemy") you have to make the punishment to be a memorable one. And also a believable one. Having her army lose against mere humans would look too suspicious in the eyes of her subordinates.
And because I haven't asked anything in a while, I ask what is the belief of the majority about Yukari's true intentions behind the first Genso-Lunar war. Simple greed? Or a lesson to teach, all fitting into the grand scheme of creating a barrier around Gensokyo? Was what she told Ran about nobody ever being able beat the Lunarians true? Or a lie that she meant to spread in the minds of all youkai who'd ever get the idea of starting expansion wars on Earth?
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Remilia was bored and wanted something to do just like the others.
Anyways, personally when I first read it over and wasn't very well-versed yet, I did interpret CiLR 5 as Yukari trying to gain something herself. But it didn't take long for me to conclude it was for the youkai's sake and to teach them a lesson. Really, the fact that she went there once before by herself and figured out the method to get back, and knew the Lunar Capital wasn't something to be easily trifled with, is enough to reason that if she was serious, she would have also done a preliminary run of an invasion and have planned better. Alternately, she didn't care about getting caught and so came back right away, or perhaps she did test the waters just to know, regardless of knowing she'd be caught. In any case, especially with the whole "she wanted to invade the Capital for fun" part at the beginning, it seems pretty easy to deduct that they were caught "on purpose". The recounting that the goal was to get an infinite energy source is also suspect, along with Yuyuko having been part of the War, among other things.
Yukari's explanation of her surprise about the Lunar Capital's defenses and the 15-day trap seems legitimate, and I doubt Yukari could have known on her first visit about the trap. I think it's likely enough that on her first real trip (that possibly even happened quite a while before), she was caught in the trap. The knowledge she gained from that trip informed and led the subsequent trips.
I think "Yukari did it" is the conclusion most people come to after reading CiLR 5, in general.
I also think that the great display of advanced technology and overwhelming display of the extent of the Watatsuki's power, along with Eirin especially, makes a pretty good argument, both actually and rhetorically (i.e. reasons why you'd write such things) that earthly youkai don't match up to them. It could have been a lie, but that's a pretty deep lie and it's already believable, so why bother taking that step. One main point of going to the moon and using the Watatsuki was to introduce an unbeatable enemy in the first place.
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Based on the likelihood of Yukari having visted the Moon prior to her first invasion and getting trapped, it comes as slightly strange to me that the Lunarians would not percieve her as a potential threat in the future and would satisfy themselves just by sending her back and not thinking of a more permanent solution to her interference even after her repeated offenses against them, the G-L war 1 and 2. Did they let her live just because that's the worst punishment they can think of for her? Did they believe that her defeat would teach her not to come there again? What gave her the confidence that even if she'd provoke someone much more powerful than she is, she'd get away with it? Where did she take such certainty that they'd spare her life every time she'd end up at their mercy? What SSiB has shown us is that she has at least equal if not greater mental capacity than Lunarians, taking advantage of her previous trips. In a real war, it doesn't always matter if you're fighting agaisnt a better-armed, better trained or more numerous enemy, if you are able to plan better than them. If anything, Yukari has done them a service of showing them weak links in their defenses, some that they still haven't mananged to mend even after a thousand years (such as ways of detecting ghosts or half-ghosts). If Lunarians didn't feel threatened by anything at all, there would be no need for an institution such as the Lunar Defense Corps in the first place.
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Isn't the "being trapped" part just the fact that she had to wait until the next full moon to go back? It doesn't necessarily mean they had her in chains. She could've spent the entire time evading them, and they never manage to deal with her properly. Same thing during the first war, she probably went back to Earth before they could get her. And in the second one, Toyohime was considering taking her as a prisioner to the moon, but for some reason changed her mind after Yukari mentioned her suspicions that the Lunarians were responsible for placing the two thick shimenawas in the Moriya Shrine to seal in the war god Take-Minakata in there. No clue why, though.
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That was likely blackmail of sorts. It's possible they were never supposed to meddle in earthly affairs or something, especially considering the implied impact the Lunarians were said to have had in that period.
But yeah I don't think it's necessary that Yukari was captured, the Moon is very big and she is a gap youkai. Stretching a bit, Yukari does mention that the pursuers were easily evaded when heading back to the gap; if she never actually caught the undivided attention of the Lunarians in the first visit, I can easily see her just waiting and planning for a month.
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That was likely blackmail of sorts. It's possible they were never supposed to meddle in earthly affairs or something, especially considering the implied impact the Lunarians were said to have had in that period.
I've thought about that possibility, but the question is, to whom would she denounce the lunarians? The Yamas? The "Higher Gods" that Zun mentioned in the SoPM interview, whatever the hell they are? I don't think the sisters are, alone, responsible for putting those shimenawas; I'd think the order came from higher up, probably from Tsukoyomi or Eirin, specially considering that, during that time, the Watatsukis weren't as high-ranked as they are now.
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How can we compare 4 stranded humans (well, 3 and one vampire) who don't even have any ill intentions towards the Moon with a mass invasion of hundres or thousands of hostile youkai with a clear intention to conquer it? The girls in SSiB didn't even attack when they saw Yorihime and the moon rabbits, because that was never their intention. How can you expect their punishment to be a beating as severe as that which the invading youkai have received over a millenium ago? If taken figuratively, you can also call the conclusion of the girls' adventure on the Monn in SSiB as "crushing defeat".
Their actual intent does not matter, it is their perceived intent that matters. While we know their intent, Yorihime doesn't. Remilia made a statement to conquer the moon. Yorihime cannot be sure if Remilia is serious or not, Yorihime doesn't know Remilia. She can only assume Remilia is being dead serious. Yet, the punishment did not fit the crime like the first invasion.
You cannot call the second invasion a "crushing defeat", as Yorihime was having trouble with the last 2 invaders. But that part is irrelevant. Whether it is a "crushing defeat" or not, the point is no implication of punishment, like the first war. There is no need for them to say, "of course, we sent them back much worse for wear.", if that doesn't mean punishment of some kind.
It doesn't necessarily mean they had her in chains. She could've spent the entire time evading them, and they never manage to deal with her properly. Same thing during the first war, she probably went back to Earth before they could get her.
I don't think she did, I think she was caught on the first war. I'm pretty sure she held a grudge against the moon, because of that, even if she says otherwise. Remilia's response to Yukari implies that Yukari still remembers that event, but shouldn't if she wasn't holding any grudges.
I did interpret CiLR 5 as Yukari trying to gain something herself. But it didn't take long for me to conclude it was for the youkai's sake and to teach them a lesson.
I also think she did it to teach youkais a lesson, but there is lots of room for interpretation here.
The recounting that the goal was to get an infinite energy source is also suspect, along with Yuyuko having been part of the War, among other things.
I don't believe Yuyuko was part of the war. She does say something like that, but I think Yuyuko just means her as a citizen of earth.
Did they let her live just because that's the worst punishment they can think of for her? Did they believe that her defeat would teach her not to come there again? What gave her the confidence that even if she'd provoke someone much more powerful than she is, she'd get away with it? Where did she take such certainty that they'd spare her life every time she'd end up at their mercy?
My guess is they were just following Eirin's orders, if everyone is caught, then that is fine. Yukari isn't nearly strong enough to scare them, so they see her as a non-threat.
And in the second one, Toyohime was considering taking her as a prisioner to the moon, but for some reason changed her mind after Yukari mentioned her suspicions that the Lunarians were responsible for placing the two thick shimenawas in the Moriya Shrine to seal in the war god Take-Minakata in there. No clue why, though.
I am checking that chapter out and I don't think that was the case. From what I see, they just left them there after they got notice that the invaders were stopped. The talk about Lord Daikoku and Takeminakata doesn't seem related to her getting released. It seemed like what was related was that Toyohime needs to go back in order to send them back to earth.
I am kind of surprised Eirin is still worried that they may not be good enough to protect the moon.
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Their actual intent does not matter, it is their perceived intent that matters. While we know their intent, Yorihime doesn't. Remilia made a statement to conquer the moon. Yorihime cannot be sure if Remilia is serious or not, Yorihime doesn't know Remilia. She can only assume Remilia is being dead serious. Yet, the punishment did not fit the crime like the first invasion.
Er, not really. The rest of them were like "I dunno lol, why did we come here?" before Remilia decided to say so, and Yorihime knew that one of them would be that arrogant. While she was on guard, they didn't act at all like they were hostile and they clearly said that they weren't planning a rebellion. Furthermore, Yorihime knew they were the diversion for Yukari. Of course Yorihime knew they weren't seriously intending to do much of anything.
I don't think she did, I think she was caught on the first war. I'm pretty sure she held a grudge against the moon, because of that, even if she says otherwise. Remilia's response to Yukari implies that Yukari still remembers that event, but shouldn't if she wasn't holding any grudges.
Nobody besides Yukari would be immediately aware of anything besides the actual events and their outcome. Yuyuko is likely the only one in-universe who might have enough information and intellect to form a correct conclusion. Yukari is supposed to act like she has a grudge. I do think she does as well, but not because she was caught during the war.
I don't believe Yuyuko was part of the war. She does say something like that, but I think Yuyuko just means her as a citizen of earth.
Ran: 「これは紫様の命令なのですが?」 These are Lady Yukari's orders, and...
「?知っての通り。紫様は一度月の都に攻め入って敗北しています。」 ...as you know, Lady Yukari has once invaded the Lunar Capital and was defeated.
Youmu: 「藍が「知っての通り」と言ったのは、幽々子様はその出来事を生で見た事がある」 When Ran said "as you know", she was referring to Yuyuko having seen that event in-person.
It can easily be assumed that Youmu is completely accurate here, since she acts as the narrative to introduce and explain this fact that would otherwise never be mentioned. Along with Yuyuko expressing her desire to "take revenge" by stealing something (Yuyuko wanting revenge is almost silly to think about), I don't think there's any doubt.
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Their actual intent does not matter, it is their perceived intent that matters. While we know their intent, Yorihime doesn't. Remilia made a statement to conquer the moon. Yorihime cannot be sure if Remilia is serious or not, Yorihime doesn't know Remilia. She can only assume Remilia is being dead serious. Yet, the punishment did not fit the crime like the first invasion.
A 4-person invasion force can hardly be taken seriously, even if they were dead serious.
You cannot call the second invasion a "crushing defeat", as Yorihime was having trouble with the last 2 invaders. But that part is irrelevant.
You're right, it's irrelevant, but Yorihime is only one Lunarian. Even if one of the Gensokyo girls wuld beat her somehow, there's still a whole army of Lunarians, so I doubt they'd get very far in conquering. "Almost won or almost lost" doesn't matter in a war or duel. Just "won" or "lost". And they lost 0 to 4.
I don't think she did, I think she was caught on the first war. I'm pretty sure she held a grudge against the moon, because of that, even if she says otherwise. Remilia's response to Yukari implies that Yukari still remembers that event, but shouldn't if she wasn't holding any grudges.
If Yukari went to the Moon with the knowledge and intention that she'd lose the war, why would she hold any grudges at all? It was her plan to lose and she did it like a boss. And just because Yukari remembers her "defeat" doesn't mean she has to be pissed about it. It was simply a memorable experience for her, because I assume she doesn't go to the Moon very often. I remember some of my old classmates from grade school, and believe it or not, it's not because I have a bone to pick with them.
I don't believe Yuyuko was part of the war. She does say something like that, but I think Yuyuko just means her as a citizen of earth.
What Drake said. Nobody really doubts that Yuyuko was involved in the first war, but her dialogue with Ran and Youmu's narration suggests she wasn't fighting in that war, just witnessed the event.
My guess is they were just following Eirin's orders, if everyone is caught, then that is fine. Yukari isn't nearly strong enough to scare them, so they see her as a non-threat.
So they considered her spy crow as a bigger threat than Yukari herself? Unlikely.
I am kind of surprised Eirin is still worried that they may not be good enough to protect the moon.
Well, they did get burglarized.
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Just a break of this tennis, are Moon Rabbits immortal or do they have a natural lifespan?.
And technically the four of them went to the Moon with few Fairy Maids but all they really did was to demostrate danmaku with few Moon Rabbits, and got defeated by them
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Just a break of this tennis, are Moon Rabbits immortal or do they have a natural lifespan?.
And technically the four of them went to the Moon with few Fairy Maids but all they really did was to demostrate danmaku with few Moon Rabbits, and got defeated by them
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Lunar_Capital (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Lunar_Capital)
"The moon is said to be a Pure Land similar to Higan where the impurity of life and death does not exist, and thus nothing can age or grow sick while on the moon. However, allowing either mortals or those who have drunk the Hourai Elixir to live on the moon for too long could result in it becoming tainted. Kaguya Houraisan's manipulation of eternity allowed her to recreate this environment in Eientei."
As for the fairies vs bunnies, the rabbits shot them with their rifles, so they probably didn't get the point of danmaku.
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It didn't really answer my question, though I quickly looked it up myself, and apparentaly Moon Rabbits are ageless like Lunarians as long as they stay on the moon (so Reisen has natural lifespan). I primary asked due the fact that not even the seas in the Moon have no life (though it makes me question the peach trees, but thatis me just asking too many questions).
On fairies vs. bunnies... Reisen uses an invisible gun, what's their excuse :v . But serious now, if Eirin can use PILLS as danmaku, I think bullets are as lethal in danmaku battle as anything else (as in, not lethal).
Speaking of which, why did Eirin even become a doctor? I mean, if Lunarians cannot even get sick, what do they need medicine for (and I think they do life in societity where accidents would probably be rare and civil war also rare).
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To make shady new drugs, of course.
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I remember reading discussions about this on TV Tropes. The peach trees may be just like the Lunarians themselves. Neither alive, nor dead.
In danmaku duels, everything is adjusted to non-lethal mode, but the rabbits didn't seem to get it the first time the rules and danmaku was demonstrated to them. But since it was only fairies they were aiming at, it's okay even if their bullets were lethal.
Speaking of which, why did Eirin even become a doctor? I mean, if Lunarians cannot even get sick, what do they need medicine for (and I think they do life in societity where accidents would probably be rare and civil war also rare).
To get high. :V But in seriousness, you probably answered your own question. They still can suffer injuries, however unlikely their occurrence, it's good to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. That, or they used it just how they used the Hourai Elixir - as a bargaining chip or a tool of manipulation on humans.
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I've been wondering about the corrupted tools in DDC. According to the dialogues of the game, several characters mention the tools getting awareness by that tool the "culprit" uses.
I remember Byakuren was mentioning her scroll was possessed by a force as well, and only she was capable of handling it. Makes me wonder now if there is a connection. Pre-DDC I was suspecting, but during the actual game no connections were made, at least not until now.
And if tools are imbued by their own "life" as claimed in DDC, wouldn't that make Kogasa herself and possibly Medicine more questionable? Or are they totally non-related? (Since it was stated Kogasa has become what she has due to her nature as forgotten Umbrella I assume.
On a semi silly though serious note, what would happen if the tool imbuing thing was used for Alice dolls. I cannot think of the trouble arising for her to control her dolls?
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I am checking that chapter out and I don't think that was the case. From what I see, they just left them there after they got notice that the invaders were stopped. The talk about Lord Daikoku and Takeminakata doesn't seem related to her getting released. It seemed like what was related was that Toyohime needs to go back in order to send them back to earth.
It didn't seem directly related, but Toyohime's face during the whole thing showed that she wasn't pleased with the direction the talk was going. She explicitly said in the beggining that she was coinsidering taking Yukari as a trophy, and for no apparent reason gave up on the idea after she got the notice about the other invaders being stopped. I don't see why she'd give up on locking Yukari just because the other intruders were dealt with, since one thing has nothing to do with the other, and the only other thing that happened during that chap was the discussion regarding the war god.
I've been wondering about the corrupted tools in DDC. According to the dialogues of the game, several characters mention the tools getting awareness by that tool the "culprit" uses.
I remember Byakuren was mentioning her scroll was possessed by a force as well, and only she was capable of handling it. Makes me wonder now if there is a connection. Pre-DDC I was suspecting, but during the actual game no connections were made, at least not until now.
And if tools are imbued by their own "life" as claimed in DDC, wouldn't that make Kogasa herself and possibly Medicine more questionable? Or are they totally non-related? (Since it was stated Kogasa has become what she has due to her nature as forgotten Umbrella I assume.
On a semi silly though serious note, what would happen if the tool imbuing thing was used for Alice dolls. I cannot think of the trouble arising for her to control her dolls?
Byakuren's scroll has a will of its own because it's made from Makai materials, so it's not really related to the side-effects of the Lucky Mallet. Could be considered foreshadowing, though.
I don't get what you mean by Kogasa and Medicine being questionable...
Hm, I wonder if she'd consider her dream of making an autonomous doll fullfilled, or would be pissed that someone turned all her dolls into tsukumogami =P
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A question that just occurred to me concernes something, which some Touhou fans might consider offensive, and that is the term "primary" and "secondary" in terms of being a fan of the franchise. I got a general idea what is what, but the definitions sometimes vary. Some say primary is a fan who learned about Touhou from the games first, others say it's a person who has at least played the games, regardless of the way they were introduced to Touhou.
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Hm, I wonder if she'd consider her dream of making an autonomous doll fullfilled, or would be pissed that someone turned all her dolls into tsukumogami =P
Maybe both? First she thinks that she had discovered to make a fully functional automaton doll, but then she finds out its a tsukumogami and gets pissed off on that. SOME ONE MAKE THAT INTO A DOUJIN!
And while you're at it, make a picture where the Eientei group mourn over Reisen's passing. Seriously now, I have seen plenty of pictures of Marisa/Sakuya/Keine passing away due of them being humans and others mourning over it, but Reisen would fall into that situation as well, with Kaguya and Eirin being immortals and who knows how long Tewi can live. Its weird to ask to see a pciture of one of your favourite characters dying, but interesting situations over character preference
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A question that just occurred to me concernes something, which some Touhou fans might consider offensive, and that is the term "primary" and "secondary" in terms of being a fan of the franchise. I got a general idea what is what, but the definitions sometimes vary. Some say primary is a fan who learned about Touhou from the games first, others say it's a person who has at least played the games, regardless of the way they were introduced to Touhou.
Broadly it's whether or not you get your understanding from fanworks rather than the original sources, but it depends on how Scottish you are (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).
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Speaking of which, why did Eirin even become a doctor? I mean, if Lunarians cannot even get sick, what do they need medicine for (and I think they do life in societity where accidents would probably be rare and civil war also rare).
She was a doctor before she moved to the moon. Tsukuyomi was upset by all the death on Earth so she recommended they move to the moon to get away from it. That was her medical advice, as a doctor. A lot of people seem to think of Eirin as primarily a Lunarian, and while that's technically true it's also very important to remember that she's a founder of Lunarian society. She wasn't born a Lunarian, she became one, and was already a highly skilled and experienced adult before anyone even considered living there. It's also heavily hinted that she's Omoikane, the Shinto god of knowledge, and is older than even the big gods like Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. You thought she was exaggerating about her age?
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She was a doctor before she moved to the moon.
Where is this mentioned, if I may ask?
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Where is this mentioned, if I may ask?
It's not explicitly said, but I think it's implied. In CiLR chapter 3, Toyohime narrates that when the "sage" Tsukuyomi moved to the moon and founded the Lunar Capital, and the person he relied upon most while doing so was Eirin, who's even older than Tsukuyomi. So she was older and wiser than him when he was already a sage? And yet she still hadn't learned a profession? It's just weird to imagine any other scenario. Although yes, I should have said "probably a doctor before she moved to the moon".
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Still staying on the Moon topic, I read a discussion on TV Tropes about moon rabbits. They were talked about as an enslaved race. They have the lowest status in the Lunarian society, but what source explicitly states that they lived on the Moon prior to its colonization by Tsukuyomi? Because Kaguya in IN says something about all magic and youkai having originated from the Moon. So is it possible that the moon rabbits are Lunarian creations and not the Moon's indigenous population?
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Still staying on the Moon topic, I read a discussion on TV Tropes about moon rabbits. They were talked about as an enslaved race. They have the lowest status in the Lunarian society, but what source explicitly states that they lived on the Moon prior to its colonization by Tsukuyomi? Because Kaguya in IN says something about all magic and youkai having originated from the Moon. So is it possible that the moon rabbits are Lunarian creations and not the Moon's indigenous population?
I don't think there's anything that mentions it one way or another, so I suppose it's possible that they're Lunarian creations. Not that that makes any difference regarding whether or not you consider them enslaved.
Regarding the "all youkai originate from the moon" thing though, in CiLR chapter 5, Yukari clarifies exactly what that means, and it's a lot less literal than you seem to be thinking. I'll just quote it:
A large mirror that reflects the sunlight, and at the same time illuminates the darkness of the Earth. The most light comes from the full moon. While it may seem as if it were the worst night for youkai, why is it that they are the most powerful under the light of the moon?
The reason for that is because the light not only illuminates, but gives rise to shadows as well.
Under the dim light of the moon, all sorts of things blanket the Earth in shadows, such as grasses, trees, mountains, rocks and buildings. With light as weak as moonlight, it is impossible to eliminate these shadows. And they are the birthplace of humanity's fears, sometimes creating legends of youkai. In a manner of speaking, the moon gave birth to all youkai.
To sum it up, moonlight creates shadows, and shadows are the origin of "humanity's fear of the dark" which is also mentioned in SoPM as the basis of youkai. It's all tied into the old "human belief creates gods and youkai" thing.
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Kaguya's claim is that the lunarians gave the Earth various powers, like magic, and created monsters to control its impurity:
The moon granted many powers to the Earth. Most powers such as magic were originally those of the moon. [...] We of the moon turned some on the Earth into monsters, to regulate the Earthlings' impurity.
Her claim doesn't contradict Yukari's explanation, either; it could be that the lunarians adjusted how much of the sun's light the moon can reflect, dimming it enough so that it'd create the shadows needed to stir and solidify humanity's fear, for instance.
She could just be boasting, of course, but there isn't really anything that outright contradicts her.
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I already knew of both versions and that they aren't mutually exclusive, but this was specifically related to my question of the moon rabbits' origin, where it would seem more likely that Lunarians created them on purpose so they could serve them rather than having human imagination inspired by fear give birth to them.
It's more complicated than that. Because if both versions are part of the same truth, it means the light of the Moon was dimmed after the Lunarians have settled on the Moon, which would mean that humans knew no youkai before that. But then there's the White Rabbit of Inaba, which is set in the timeline long before the founding of the Lunar Capital, so Tewi had to exist as a youkai before there was any Lunarian civilization. It would be like asking what is older: human belief in gods or human fear and belief in youkai? But Kaguya's words "The moon granted many powers to the Earth. Most powers such as magic were originally those of the moon." make me believe that it was not the Lunarians, but simply the Moon (as in the celestial body) that bestowed such powers upon Earth. Then came the Lunarians and "turned some of the Earth into monsters". This doesn't mean there were no monsters on Earth before that. It could mean that they simply increased their count.
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It gets weirder when you consider that Izanagi and Izanami created Japan 25 million years ago in the touhouverse (as Maribel figures out in NToJ). Humans evolved less than half a million years ago, so why were there gods at all back then, if they're born out of human belief?
...anyway, regarding the rabbit question, I'd argue that they are lunarian creations, mostly because I don't think the lunarians would keep anything generated from the thoughts of the impure Earth humans in their society, even as slaves.
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It gets weirder when you consider that Izanagi and Izanami created Japan 25 million years ago in the touhouverse (as Maribel figures out in NToJ). Humans evolved less than half a million years ago, so why were there gods at all back then, if they're born out of human belief?
I think CoLA chapter 15 dabbles in this. At first, the gods were all nameless entities and the concept of their being and their powers was much more vague than after they got a name. If we ignore real life logic and only follow the Touhou logic, then the gods were there before humans and before everything. But then again, can we really take Rinnosuke's theories for granted?
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Furthermore, Yorihime knew they were the diversion for Yukari. Of course Yorihime knew they weren't seriously intending to do much of anything.
Yeah, but the point of contention is still the same. Even if Yorihime knows that fact, their actions are what is more relevant. Remilia's action is what would cause Yorihime to view it as something serious. It doesn't really matter if Remilia is boasting or not, as Yorihime doesn't know these people or their intentions.
Yukari is supposed to act like she has a grudge. I do think she does as well, but not because she was caught during the war.
That could be the case. She mentioned this 6 months ago, comparative to her conversation with Remilia.
When Ran said "as you know", she was referring to Yuyuko having seen that event in-person.
I see, is that the implication? Then, it is safe to assume Yuyuko witnessed it.
You're right, it's irrelevant, but Yorihime is only one Lunarian. Even if one of the Gensokyo girls wuld beat her somehow, there's still a whole army of Lunarians, so I doubt they'd get very far in conquering. "Almost won or almost lost" doesn't matter in a war or duel. Just "won" or "lost". And they lost 0 to 4.
She is responsible for protecting the moon. I'm not sure what this has anything to do with the discussion, could you clarify?
If Yukari went to the Moon with the knowledge and intention that she'd lose the war, why would she hold any grudges at all? It was her plan to lose and she did it like a boss. And just because Yukari remembers her "defeat" doesn't mean she has to be pissed about it. It was simply a memorable experience for her, because I assume she doesn't go to the Moon very often.
No, this is the reference. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/Last_Chapter. This implies she is harboring a grudge. That said, what Drake says is also correct, she could be pretending, as it was set during the events of the gamble she made when she mentioned this to Remilia.
Remilia: "That was so long ago, I have already forgotten. You may harbor thousand-year-old grudges, but I live for the future."
Yukari: "Oh my, harboring grudges? Who mentioned anything like that?" Yukari said with a sly grin.
Remilia: "Hm? Didn't you say something about invading the moon this winter six months ago?"
Yukari: "That was so long ago, I have already forgotten."
So they considered her spy crow as a bigger threat than Yukari herself? Unlikely.
What about the spy crow? It was heading straight towards the capital, so they sent it to the fake moon instead. I'm not sure what this has anything to do with this conversation.
It didn't really answer my question, though I quickly looked it up myself, and apparentaly Moon Rabbits are ageless like Lunarians as long as they stay on the moon (so Reisen has natural lifespan). I primary asked due the fact that not even the seas in the Moon have no life (though it makes me question the peach trees, but thatis me just asking too many questions).
I think there is some misunderstanding here. Lunarians age like humans do, there is no real difference between a Lunarian and a human, as they are one and the same. The difference here is one lives on the moon and the other lives on earth. The separating factor is that the moon has no impurity. It means anyone living on the moon will not die of natural causes.
I think bullets are as lethal in danmaku battle as anything else (as in, not lethal).
Danmaku battle does not cause something lethal to become non-lethal. The user must make sure it is non-lethal in the first place. If those Lunarian rabbits use guns that can kill, then it will. However, you cannot kill a fairy, as they are immortal.
I don't see why she'd give up on locking Yukari just because the other intruders were dealt with, since one thing has nothing to do with the other, and the only other thing that happened during that chap was the discussion regarding the war god.
My reasoning is that Toyohime thinks they are done. By that, I mean they routed all of Yukari's plans, so there is no point to take her into custody. This is mainly because from reading those chapters, I don't see any indication of gods discussion that would have caused Yorihime to let Yukari go.
@Reisen and Tewi possibly dying: Tewi is a youkai, how long she has is not even known. As for Reisen, that is also unknown, but Kaguya can probably keep them alive forever if they wanted to.
But then again, can we really take Rinnosuke's theories for granted?
Unfortunately, it is very hard to trust Rinnosuke, but some of his theories are true. It is just that several of them get disproved directly.
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Danmaku battle does not cause something lethal to become non-lethal. The user must make sure it is non-lethal in the first place. If those Lunarian rabbits use guns that can kill, then it will. However, you cannot kill a fairy, as they are immortal.
very debatable
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I think there is some misunderstanding here. Lunarians age like humans do, there is no real difference between a Lunarian and a human, as they are one and the same. The difference here is one lives on the moon and the other lives on earth. The separating factor is that the moon has no impurity. It means anyone living on the moon will not die of natural causes.
Just a quick question, how old are Watatsuki sisters? Because if lunarians age like any other humans, it should mean they age physically. So if the two of them are like over 100 years old, they must be old hags. Or is there some sort of explanation why they don't physically age like humans?
@Kaguya possibly keeping Tewi and Reisen alive if need comes. By feeding her liver to them (it was Hourai immortal's liver what grants the eater the effect, right)?
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My reasoning is that Toyohime thinks they are done. By that, I mean they routed all of Yukari's plans, so there is no point to take her into custody. This is mainly because from reading those chapters, I don't see any indication of gods discussion that would have caused Yorihime to let Yukari go.
Toyohime was considering taking Yukari as a trophy. It wasn't to punish her or anything, it was to brag. Then she suddenly gives up. I don't see why she would do that just because the others were done, or why Yukari would even bring up the talk about the sealed gods at all if it wouldn't benefit her somehow. I dunno, I don't see much point in the whole conversation otherwise.
Just a quick question, how old are Watatsuki sisters? Because if lunarians age like any other humans, it should mean they age physically. So if the two of them are like over 100 years old, they must be old hags. Or is there some sort of explanation why they don't physically age like humans?
We don't know their precise age, but they don't get old because they are on the Moon. People on the moon don't age, because of its purity. Maybe if they went back to Earth and let its impurity enter them, they'd go back to aging like normal.
At any rate, they are probably really old. Toyohime in CiLR chap. 3 talks as if she personally saw life emerge out of the oceans, which would put her at more than 300 million years old (although I think it's more likely she's remembering someone talking to her about this). I'd say that, at the very least, all lunarians are as old as the foundation of the Lunar Capital, because I don't think anyone on the moon gives birth (otherwise, there'd be a bunch of eternal babies, considering that the land's purity would stop the aging process)
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Yeah, but the point of contention is still the same. Even if Yorihime knows that fact, their actions are what is more relevant. Remilia's action is what would cause Yorihime to view it as something serious. It doesn't really matter if Remilia is boasting or not, as Yorihime doesn't know these people or their intentions.
It's obvious we'll only keep disagreeing about it, and I see no point in continuing this argument. I said what I wanted to say already.
She is responsible for protecting the moon. I'm not sure what this has anything to do with the discussion, could you clarify?
Just questioning this statement: You cannot call the second invasion a "crushing defeat", as Yorihime was having trouble with the last 2 invaders.
Nothing more.
No, this is the reference. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/Last_Chapter. This implies she is harboring a grudge. That said, what Drake says is also correct, she could be pretending, as it was set during the events of the gamble she made when she mentioned this to Remilia.
I read those lines several times and how you believe they imply Yukari harboring a grudge is beyond me. Remilia thinks that Yukari is harboring a grudge, when in the next instant she denies it. Remilia just didn't understand Yukari's true intention, just as the youkai army didn't understand her true intention over a 1000 years ago. Remilia was a part of a decoy and of all the parties involved in SSiB, they were the least informed about history as well as their present situation. The true intention is revealed at the very end of CiLR and foreshadowed in chapter 5. It's all Reisen's fault.
What about the spy crow? It was heading straight towards the capital, so they sent it to the fake moon instead. I'm not sure what this has anything to do with this conversation.
It has a LOT to do with the conversation. Toyohime killed the crow without hesitation, while she spared Yukari when she had her apprehended. Yukari has trespassed to the Moon more than once and caused more trouble than one crow and if left alive, could repeat her trespasses many times in the future. The only reasoning I see behind this is the Lunarian arrogance and their belief that life on Earth < death. So they gave her the "worse" punishment.
I think there is some misunderstanding here. Lunarians age like humans do, there is no real difference between a Lunarian and a human, as they are one and the same. The difference here is one lives on the moon and the other lives on earth. The separating factor is that the moon has no impurity. It means anyone living on the moon will not die of natural causes.
I partially agree, but there has to be more to it than that. If any human mortal who got to the Moon became a Lunarian just like that, they'd have no reason to fear that his impurity could eventually taint the Moon. The process of becoming a Lunarian has to be more complex than simple travel from Earth to the Moon. A ritual of forsaking one's lifespan perhaps.
And then we have an equally pure environment - the Netherworld. Youmu is considered pure, while she is still half-alive, and strongly implied that even she will eventually die.
I don't think anyone on the moon gives birth (otherwise, there'd be a bunch of eternal babies, considering that the land's purity would stop the aging process)
That begs the question: What's the point of Lunarian marriage? As we know, both Watatsukis have husbands. Besides, Kaguya's IN profile explicitly contradicts this. "Kaguya was born in the royal house of the moon and was treated with utmost care as a princess."
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That begs the question: What's the point of Lunarian marriage? As we know, both Watatsukis have husbands. Besides, Kaguya's IN profile explicitly contradicts this. "Kaguya was born in the royal house of the moon and was treated with utmost care as a princess."
Marriage could be simple politics; union of families and stuff like that.
But yeah, that line on Kaguya's profile shows that they do reproduce. Hm. Maybe they artificially age people. Or aging simply stops once the body is fully developed.
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(Please pardon this brief interjection, but misuse of "begs the question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question)" is a pet peeve of mine.
Nothing else to see here, thank you.)
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Marriage could be simple politics; union of families and stuff like that.
But yeah, that line on Kaguya's profile shows that they do reproduce. Hm. Maybe they artificially age people. Or aging simply stops once the body is fully developed.
Growth and aging are very different things. Both biologically speaking and in terms of fantasy and whatnot. Elves in Lord of the Rings, etc, often have lengthened adolescence, but nowhere near as lengthened as their lifespans. Lunarians are basically space elves, or at least that's the effect of the Lunar purity.
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@Danmaku being lethal: You mentioned this being very debatable. I assume from this, it means Danmaku has to be non-lethal, why is that so?
Just a quick question, how old are Watatsuki sisters? Because if lunarians age like any other humans, it should mean they age physically. So if the two of them are like over 100 years old, they must be old hags. Or is there some sort of explanation why they don't physically age like humans?
The moon has no impurity, you will not age when you are on the moon. If a human goes to the moon and a Lunarian cleanses the human with some sort of ritual to get rid of the impurities, that human should also live pretty much forever, assuming the said human stays on the moon.
@Kaguya possibly keeping Tewi and Reisen alive if need comes. By feeding her liver to them (it was Hourai immortal's liver what grants the eater the effect, right)?
Kaguya can manipulate both the Eternity and the Instantaneous. One of the reasons why she cannot be killed by the Lunarians when they tried to execute her. The latter is mentioned in her profile.
I read those lines several times and how you believe they imply Yukari harboring a grudge is beyond me. Remilia thinks that Yukari is harboring a grudge, when in the next instant she denies it.
It is the way she denies it. She pushes the denial to Remilia, questioning Remilia's grudge. If she were just to respond "Nah, I wasn't holding a grudge", then that would imply no harboring of grudges. When Remilia then calls Yukari on it, Yukari pretends to forget. To me, that seems to imply she was indeed harboring some sort of grudge.
The true intention is revealed at the very end of CiLR and foreshadowed in chapter 5.
The very end did indeed reveal Yukari's intention, but that doesn't change the idea that she is holding a grudge.
It has a LOT to do with the conversation. Toyohime killed the crow without hesitation, while she spared Yukari when she had her apprehended. Yukari has trespassed to the Moon more than once and caused more trouble than one crow and if left alive, could repeat her trespasses many times in the future. The only reasoning I see behind this is the Lunarian arrogance and their belief that life on Earth < death. So they gave her the "worse" punishment.
Not so, They tried executing Kaguya before sending her to Earth. They killed the crow, because it was heading directly to the capital and they know it was a spy.
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It is the way she denies it. She pushes the denial to Remilia, questioning Remilia's grudge. If she were just to respond "Nah, I wasn't holding a grudge", then that would imply no harboring of grudges. When Remilia then calls Yukari on it, Yukari pretends to forget. To me, that seems to imply she was indeed harboring some sort of grudge.
I'm not convinced. It wouldn't make any sense for her to hold grudges, if everything happened the way she planned it. Yukari is an Oscar-worthy actress, and pretending to hate the Lunarians or being angry about her defeat is all part of her scheme to make sure other hostile youkai wouldn't go to wars, while at the same time it serves as a cover from suspicion of treachery from those youkai she once led.
The very end did indeed reveal Yukari's intention, but that doesn't change the idea that she is holding a grudge.
Nope. Why would she? Tell me one good reason.
Not so, They tried executing Kaguya before sending her to Earth. They killed the crow, because it was heading directly to the capital and they know it was a spy.
Why are you bringing Kaguya into all this? She has nothing to do with the Genso-Lunar wars. They tried to kill her for something else. I only know that Yukari committed a more severe offense against the Moon and she still got away with it, even when Toyohime could make an example out of her. And I only wonder why she didn't, as well as why Yukari was so certain that she could throw herself into their trap without the slightest doubt that the Lunarians wouldn't hurt her or even lock her up.
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@Starx So just to make clear: Lunarians age like normal humans if it wasn't for the fact that Moon prevents them from aging or pretty much die due of natural causes. Is that what you're trying to say?
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It's not really the moon; it's purity that does that. Shinto considers death to be something impure; since the beggining of life creatures kill and devour each other to live, and so the seas and the earth became impure, making living beings grow old and die. The moon is free from this struggle; therefore, it is a pure place, untainted by death. Because of that, it allows you to live forever. Lunarians can't get sick or anything like that either because diseases are caused by impurity. As long as that place remains pure, Lunarians can't die of natural causes.
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I only know that Yukari committed a more severe offense against the Moon and she still got away with it, even when Toyohime could make an example out of her.
As you said yourself earlier, living on Earth is a worse punishment than death from Lunarian's POV.
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This plus what Starx said about Lunarians not perceiving Yukari as a threat would seem as most plausible. Lunarians belive that no matter what Yukari throws at them, they can easily undo, so letting her live was a form of their insult saying: "You're not even worth killing. you can't touch us, no matter what you do. So live in the shame of this truth." But that was all before they found out someone stole their sake jar from inside their palace. I wonder if this shocking discovery didn't make them regret their decision of letting her live and begin to consider her as an actual threat to the Moon, rather than just a nuisance.
At the end of CiLR, Eirin realized this. After tasting the pure sake, she started feeling something previously alien to her - fear. The first war was pretty much just Lunarians curbstomping Gensokyans, but only the second one made them realize that the myth about their perfect security burst like a bubble.
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Nope. Why would she? Tell me one good reason.
There is no reason other than her being outsmarted back then. We just have different interpretations on this.
Why are you bringing Kaguya into all this? She has nothing to do with the Genso-Lunar wars. They tried to kill her for something else.
I brought Kaguya into this because we are talking about punishment. They tried to execute her before sending her to the earth. If sending her to earth was really the worst punishment, they would have done that first.
I only know that Yukari committed a more severe offense against the Moon and she still got away with it, even when Toyohime could make an example out of her.
I don't agree with you that Yukari committed a more severe offense. She never invaded the moon. What she is committing is burglary compared to actual invasion.
But that was all before they found out someone stole their sake jar from inside their palace. I wonder if this shocking discovery didn't make them regret their decision of letting her live and begin to consider her as an actual threat to the Moon, rather than just a nuisance.
They were outsmarted, that much is true.
At the end of CiLR, Eirin realized this. After tasting the pure sake, she started feeling something previously alien to her - fear. The first war was pretty much just Lunarians curbstomping Gensokyans, but only the second one made them realize that the myth about their perfect security burst like a bubble.
To clarify, it is really just Eirin doing the curbstomping in the first war. Eirin is the Lunarian defense force, so it is just her and the rabbits in the first war. Kind of like how it is in the second war, except in the second war, it is Eirin's sucessors, Yorihime and Toyohime plus the rabbits.
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If sending her to earth was really the worst punishment, they would have done that first.
This could also mean that drinking the Hourai Elixir is not as severe an offense as invading the Moon, thus demanding a "lesser" punishment. But it's kind of silly how Lunarians thought and acted in Kaguya's case. "You drank the elixir of immortality! For that we shall execute you. Oh, crap, we can't. Oh well... to Earth with you then!"
A question that would be more fitting for the "what if" thread just occurred to me. "What if the whole Lunarian society adopted the law that Hourai Elixir is legal and free to drink for everyone? All problems with impurity threatening the Moon would be eliminated. Moon would be tainted, but who cares if everyone living there would be perfectly immortal?
I don't agree with you that Yukari committed a more severe offense. She never invaded the moon. What she is committing is burglary compared to actual invasion.
Are you kidding me? You can't seriously mean what you just typed. She invaded the Moon with a youkai army a thousand years ago and then came back again. The Watatsukis knew it was her back then. And if she wasn't caught and punished for her invasion back then, in SSiB they had the perfect chance to do it. They didn't even know about the burglary until they returned home and Yukari was long since off their hook. IF her offense is less severe, as you say, then why did she get the "worst possible punishment" for it?
To clarify, it is really just Eirin doing the curbstomping in the first war. Eirin is the Lunarian defense force, so it is just her and the rabbits in the first war.
This is not true.
Yuyuko had simply one reason for her theft.
It was to obtain revenge on the crushing defeat the Watatsukis levied on them so long ago without involving the rest of the Lunarians. CiLR, Last chapter
Both Watatsukis knew about Yukari and Yukari knew about them. It would make no sense if they were in no way involved in the First Genso-Lunar war. The "grudge" she had was specifically targeted at those two, not just at the Lunarian Sage.
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This could also mean that drinking the Hourai Elixir is not as severe an offense as invading the Moon, thus demanding a "lesser" punishment. But it's kind of silly how Lunarians thought and acted in Kaguya's case. "You drank the elixir of immortality! For that we shall execute you. Oh, crap, we can't. Oh well... to Earth with you then!"
A question that would be more fitting for the "what if" thread just occurred to me. "What if the whole Lunarian society adopted the law that Hourai Elixir is legal and free to drink for everyone? All problems with impurity threatening the Moon would be eliminated. Moon would be tainted, but who cares if everyone living there would be perfectly immortal?
Well, considering that the only people that can make the Elixir are exiled, it's a moot point...
To clarify, it is really just Eirin doing the curbstomping in the first war. Eirin is the Lunarian defense force, so it is just her and the rabbits in the first war. Kind of like how it is in the second war, except in the second war, it is Eirin's sucessors, Yorihime and Toyohime plus the rabbits.
Nope. If that was the case, why didn't Yukari recognize Eirin and vice-versa during IN? Yukari knows about the "genius of the moon", who made the Capital's protections so tight that she can only go there and back again during the full moon, but never shows any indication that she knows that the genius and Eirin are the same person. And as Fonzi pointed out, the Watatsukis are explicitly said to have been the ones that routed the youkai in the first war.
Besides, Eirin was most likely already exiled by then.
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- Does anyone know any wonderful or heart touching english-translated Touhou fan stories like 1) "Touhou Osana Reimu" and 2) Touhou Reireimu?
-1) http://www.youtube.com/playlist?feature=playlist-comment&list=PLD061C5E64DBD575E
-2) http://www.youtube.com/user/jorwil?feature=watch
This a wonderful touhou story that I greatly recommend anyone out there to try watching and see for yourself whether you like it or not.
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Does Seija Kijin consider her own position when flipping things.
Her plan is to flip the social hierarchy; however, what if in the process of achieving this goal she attained a high social standing. Would she still flip the social hierarchy, thereby lowering her social standing?
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Does Seija Kijin consider her own position when flipping things.
Her plan is to flip the social hierarchy; however, what if in the process of achieving this goal she attained a high social standing. Would she still flip the social hierarchy, thereby lowering her social standing?
You know, I have the feeling we should have a separate thread for hypothetical questions such as this, that don't really have a clear-cut answer and are more open to discussion.
At any rate, no, I don't think she would, because with a high position she can more easily go against other people's beliefs and wishes to make them unhappy.
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Well, the opposite of a hierarchy isn't another hierarchy but a classless society.
But like Sagus, I also think this sounds more like an unanswerable thought exercise than a question that can be answered.
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This could also mean that drinking the Hourai Elixir is not as severe an offense as invading the Moon, thus demanding a "lesser" punishment. But it's kind of silly how Lunarians thought and acted in Kaguya's case. "You drank the elixir of immortality! For that we shall execute you. Oh, crap, we can't. Oh well... to Earth with you then!"
They also sealed Lord Daikoku (the god of the rabbits), because they think he may fight back.
Are you kidding me? You can't seriously mean what you just typed. She invaded the Moon with a youkai army a thousand years ago and then came back again. The Watatsukis knew it was her back then. And if she wasn't caught and punished for her invasion back then, in SSiB they had the perfect chance to do it. They didn't even know about the burglary until they returned home and Yukari was long since off their hook. IF her offense is less severe, as you say, then why did she get the "worst possible punishment" for it?
What did Yukari do? What are her crimes as far as the Watasuki sisters are concerned? She is already living on earth, so they just leave her there. What has she done in the second war that wasn't prevented?
That said, if the Watatsuki sisters or Eirin really view Yukari as a threat, they would beat her down, execute her or seal her, as they did with Lord Daikoku and Takeminakata or something. This is why stealing something like a drink is so good, because as Yukari said, they can't come and get it back.
Or do you mean to imply when they visit the rabbits, who committed no crime towards the moon, in Eientei, they should bring all the rabbits home? Because leaving them on earth is the "worst possible punishment".
The "grudge" she had was specifically targeted at those two, not just at the Lunarian Sage.
The sage, even though she is gone, is the one who stopped her, not those two.
Besides, Eirin was most likely already exiled by then.
Yeah, this is my mistake, I remember this incorrectly.
Does Seija Kijin consider her own position when flipping things.
There is no need to think that far. She's just there to be contrary.
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A question that would be more fitting for the "what if" thread just occurred to me. "What if the whole Lunarian society adopted the law that Hourai Elixir is legal and free to drink for everyone? All problems with impurity threatening the Moon would be eliminated. Moon would be tainted, but who cares if everyone living there would be perfectly immortal?
Impurity causes all bad things, not just death, meaning they'd give up perfect peace and harmony.
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What did Yukari do? What are her crimes as far as the Watasuki sisters are concerned? She is already living on earth, so they just leave her there. What has she done in the second war that wasn't prevented?
That said, if the Watatsuki sisters or Eirin really view Yukari as a threat, they would beat her down, execute her or seal her, as they did with Lord Daikoku and Takeminakata or something. This is why stealing something like a drink is so good, because as Yukari said, they can't come and get it back.
Or do you mean to imply when they visit the rabbits, who committed no crime towards the moon, in Eientei, they should bring all the rabbits home? Because leaving them on earth is the "worst possible punishment".
Let's see: one youkai invasion, one trespass, and one theft, as they discovered at the end of SSiB. After reading their recounting of Mizue no Uranoshimako and how they kept him on the Moon and sent him back to Earth instead of killing him on spot and how they later declared that they would not repeat the same mistake again, it's a wonder why nobody from SSiB got killed. What has she done in the second war that wasn't prevented? Why the theft, of course! You probably meant to ask what she did in the first that wasn't prevented. She just got her army crushed, but considerting this is what she wanted, both wars can be called as her victories. It was the aftermath of the second war that should change the Lunarian opinion about Yukari from being a mere pest to something far more dangerous. If someone can steal something from your home without anyone noticing, they can do it again. Next time they can plant a trap or wait until you go to sleep and murder you. Yukari has no such intentions, but what she has done in the second war has certainly left a strong impression. Even the Watatsukis would look at her differently if they met her after SSiB. Stealing a drink may prevent its owners from retrieving it, but it dosn't prevent them from punishing the thieves, which they didn't do. As for the Watatsukis paying visits to the rabbits, know that only ONE rabbit in Eientei is actually from the Moon, and that is Reisen and Reisen has basically committed desertion, so she's not completely innocent.
Impurity causes all bad things, not just death, meaning they'd give up perfect peace and harmony.
To me it seems that the thing they fear the most is death. And impurity as its cause.
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So, Japan has a lot of active volcanoes. I heard that recently Japan experienced its 55th eruption this year and a large area is now being rained on by ash. It then struck me as odd that we havn't seen any references to volcanoes in shinto (I havn't looked very hard). If religion is informed by the natural world (perhaps a tenuous claim but I think it works here), shouldn't volcanoes have more of an impact on shinto and by extension Touhou. I mean a volcano is pretty hard to take lightly, in my opinion. Kanako is a mountain god, can we expect her to explode?
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Youkai Mountain is an "active" volcano. It last erupted a thousand years ago, before the sealing of Gensokyo. Aya notes that its eruption wouldn't be a big deal to anyone but the humans, who would have to at least evacuate for safety. Suwako says that even if there were a danger of eruption she would use her powers to change the earth and adjust when it happens.
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So, Japan has a lot of active volcanoes. I heard that recently Japan experienced its 55th eruption this year and a large area is now being rained on by ash. It then struck me as odd that we havn't seen any references to volcanoes in shinto (I havn't looked very hard). If religion is informed by the natural world (perhaps a tenuous claim but I think it works here), shouldn't volcanoes have more of an impact on shinto and by extension Touhou. I mean a volcano is pretty hard to take lightly, in my opinion. Kanako is a mountain god, can we expect her to explode?
Youkai Mountain is explicitly a volcano, but volcano gods tend to be more about not exploding because that's what people want from them. Mokou's story is also closely related to volcanoes and there's another volcano god in that one. I haven't heard of any famous volcano gods, but I don't think Shinto would bother to distinguish them from "the kami of the mountain" which they have for all mountains anyway.
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Youkai Mountain is explicitly a volcano, but volcano gods tend to be more about not exploding because that's what people want from them. Mokou's story is also closely related to volcanoes and there's another volcano god in that one. I haven't heard of any famous volcano gods, but I don't think Shinto would bother to distinguish them from "the kami of the mountain" which they have for all mountains anyway.
If the mountain gods prevent volcanoes when they are happy, how do religious people rationalize something as strange and powerful as an eruption? Are mountain gods generally happy except for some periods when they become so angry that the leak semi solid death?
Maybe I'm starting to think that every now and again, every mountain in Japan turns into a veritable Mt. Doom. I guess that's not true.
What counts as an eruption in Japan? My impression is that you have one of the loudest sounds in the world, lava leaking out of places, and ash filling the sky. If this mental image is correct, how is that not a bigger aspect of mountains and their gods? Like, most of the time gods are really calm, except when they are really not.
Should Kanako and Suwako have... like... volcano modes?
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Youkai Mountain is an "active" volcano. It last erupted a thousand years ago, before the sealing of Gensokyo. Aya notes that its eruption wouldn't be a big deal to anyone but the humans, who would have to at least evacuate for safety. Suwako says that even if there were a danger of eruption she would use her powers to change the earth and adjust when it happens.
How could the Youkai Mountain exist in Gensokyo over a thousand years ago? If it is THE Mt. Yatsugatake, then it shouldn't exist at that time, because: It was torn down in times predating the existence of Lunarians and Gensokyo's oldest layer of the barrier is only over 500 years old.
Furthermore, this is what the wiki says in the timeline: Iwanagahime furthermore, at around the time of 100 years ago, moved to Gensokyo's Youkai Mountain (once Yatsugatake)
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Aya explicitly says that Youkai Mountain erupted over a thousand years ago in this (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Bunbunmaru_Newspaper_9)newspaper clipping. Yatsugatake was broken, yes, but only to the point of being smaller than Fuji. It didn't cease to be a volcano; the land wasn't made flat, nor was its magmatic chamber somehow erased from existence. Gensokyo would later be installed in that area; I suppose that, once the barrier was erected, the legendary Yatsugatake that was the tallest mountain in Japan appeared there, "replacing" the smaller, broken one from the outside world.
What counts as an eruption in Japan? My impression is that you have one of the loudest sounds in the world, lava leaking out of places, and ash filling the sky.
There's so many types of eruptions, it's not even funny. Some fit that image, some don't.
I didn't study japanese volcanos much, but from the little I remember, most of them have mafic lava, which, being of relatively low viscosity, allows them to erupt rather non-violently, since the volatiles responsible for the magnificent explosions people usually associate with volcanos escape more easily.
At any rate, not all mountains in Japan are volcanos, so it stands to reason that not all montain gods are associated with them, which is why Kanako and Suwako aren't. Maybe.
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How could the Youkai Mountain exist in Gensokyo over a thousand years ago? If it is THE Mt. Yatsugatake, then it shouldn't exist at that time, because: It was torn down in times predating the existence of Lunarians and Gensokyo's oldest layer of the barrier is only over 500 years old.
Furthermore, this is what the wiki says in the timeline: Iwanagahime furthermore, at around the time of 100 years ago, moved to Gensokyo's Youkai Mountain (once Yatsugatake)
It didn't necessarily exist in "Gensokyo" yet, it just existed in the area that later turned into Gensokyo. Aya didn't even settle down in the Gensokyo area until a bit later, however she does acknowledge that Yatsugatake did erupt back then. The Yatsugatake currently in Gensokyo would still be the "tall" Yatsugatake, despite Yatsugatake being cut before Gensokyo's sealing. The small Yatsugatake still exists in the real world, after all.
Iwanagahime moved to Yatsugatake from Fuji after Yatsugatake was shown to be higher than Fuji and Sakuyahime cut it down. The date is placed at 1707 because that was Fuji's last eruption, but I disagree with that assessment. First of all, I don't find it necessary that Fuji would have stopped erupting just as Iwanagahime left it; she was only the one keeping the volcano eternally active, so it could have just taken a long time to calm down naturally. In the same way, Iwanagahime didn't create the volcano in Yatsugatake, she just moved there.
When Mokou attained immortality, Sakuyahime explained to Mokou that Yatsugatake would be a better place to dispose of the Hourai Elixir, because Iwanagahime was already there. This was ~1300 years ago. Simply from that, Iwanagahime must have moved to Yatsugatake before then; Sakuyahime says they had a fight "long ago".
However, Mokou seems to conclude that the smoke from the current Youkai Mountain is the same that she remembers coming from Fuji before. Considering that during Mokou's mortal lifetime she was told that Iwanagahime was in Yatsugatake, Iwanagahime was clearly not in Fuji anymore, and Mokou not knowing that Yatsugatake used to be taller means that it would have been cut down long before she was born. The only way this makes any sense is if the smoke rose from Fuji despite Iwanagahime being gone, and the smoke only has to do with the volcano being active, which Fuji technically was until more recently. So that's how I see it.
This seems to be how I assess the sequence of events:
- Long ago Yatsugatake was taller than Fuji.
- Sakuyahime cuts Yatsugatake down because she lived in Fuji and wanted to live in the taller mountain.
- Iwanagahime moves to Yatsugatake after this. Fuji loses its eternal flame, but stays naturally active. Yatsugatake gains the eternal flame, and in reality gives birth to other complex volcanoes by erupting, crumbling, shifting and so forth.
- After a long time, Mokou is born and climbs Fuji. She meets Sakuyahime and steals the Hourai Elixir from Iwakasa.
- Yatsugatake's last known eruption from the viewpoint of the youkai, presumably referring to Mount Yoko's eruption.
- The Gensokyo area separating myth and reality is formed during the Youkai Expansion Project.
- Mokou, living near Fuji, has at some point become accustomed to its smoke, its last eruption being in 1707.
- Gensokyo is later sealed with the Great Hakurei Barrier.
- Iwanagahime moves to Gensokyo and Youkai Mountain, which becomes active once again.
The previous activity of Youkai Mountain can be either be eruptions from before it was cut down and disappeared into myth, or it could be that Gensokyo's Yatsugatake "transformed" into the mythological one somehow, yet still having scars of the real one's recent (i.e. Yoko) activity.
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It was the aftermath of the second war that should change the Lunarian opinion about Yukari from being a mere pest to something far more dangerous. If someone can steal something from your home without anyone noticing, they can do it again. Next time they can plant a trap or wait until you go to sleep and murder you.
If the Lunarians considered Yukari too dangerous, they would seal her. There are already examples of such sealed gods by the Lunarians. However, what Yukari did do is present to Eirin the fear of unknown. Now, this is not fear of Yukari, but the fear of the unknown. This is what Youkai are good at doing, this is what I guess would be the tax that she is trying to collect.
As for the Watatsukis paying visits to the rabbits, know that only ONE rabbit in Eientei is actually from the Moon, and that is Reisen and Reisen has basically committed desertion, so she's not completely innocent.
This doesn't have to do with any of this. What I am saying are the many other innocent rabbits. Yes, they are from earth, but the example you use is Toyohime keeping Yukari on earth as the "worst possible punishment". What I am asking is how is this different from letting the earth rabbits stay on earth? Why would those rabbits be receiving the "worst possible punishment", when they committed no crime.
What I am arguing here is that they are simply just letting Yukari go.
The previous activity of Youkai Mountain can be either be eruptions from before it was cut down and disappeared into myth, or it could be that Gensokyo's Yatsugatake "transformed" into the mythological one somehow, yet still having scars of the real one's recent (i.e. Yoko) activity.
I would guess the mountain would be a mix of the fantastic and the real.
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I agree, "how" it became what it is really isn't important at all.
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So, was the Shining Needle Castle always in Gensokyo's skies? Or was it somewhere else and was brought to Gensokyo by Shinmyoumaru's wish?
'Cause if it's the former I have to wonder how, in a land where everyone flies, no one noticed the giant upside-down castle floating around until now
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When the Shining Needle Castle was first made, it turned itself upside down and then was "confined to the world of oni", so it would likely be that it has been trapped somewhere like inside a mountain if onis used to live in one or in Underworld if it happened after they moved underground
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Seems like alot of my fave touhou metal arrange groups are suddenly becoming inactive or whatever lately, I was hoping you guys could throw me some other artist/circle/band/composer/names to me based on what I like.
Aquaelie -> Great example of my ideal metal music, though those weird mini albums are kinda hit and miss.
dBu -> Lots of albums that aren't very good, but you can pretty much just figure out which those are... The ones with vocals, or the ones that aren't remotely rock/metal/whatever are kinda out of the question for me. The good ones aren't very heavy or anything but they definately have rocky/metaly elements imo.
magnum opus -> They seemed to have not made any albums for some time. qq.
MyonMyon -> Ditto, that pizuyas cell X myon myon had a really great album. I forget the name, alice something. But everything I've heard after yellow cake, or nuclear blast, or wtf that SA album is called was just plain awful (mostly cuz the vocals, I hate most vocals)
Suprisingly, I'm NOT a demontori fanboy, however they DO have some amazing tracks, I really like their remilia mix, and their higen retour...come to think of it I think I'm growing to like their newer stuff but wasn't impressed with their old? In any case I'm aware of them and still experiment and check out their tracks on an individual basis.
There are more I like but that's the general direction. Umm, I particularly want to find albums around ten desires, there seem to be so few still. If for some reason you think a metalhead will like non-metal circles/artists, feel free. I'm not big on electronic music but I find I actually rather like sound-online for example (even MOST of their vocal tracks (from the albums I like, they do have some albums I dislike altogether cuz of genre difference)). I also liked some of the old stuff by =Neutral=, but haven't had much luck for awhile regarding them.
I try looking at the wiki and stuff but it's huge and intimidating and and...it's not really good for exploring "is like" kinda stuff. But if anybody has any suggestions on how I can figure this out on my own somehow (maybe there's a database organized by catagory or something with samples? doubt it but who knows) I'd appreciate that too =).
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About PC-98:
So did ZUN own Reimu, Marisa, Alice and Yuuka and Amusement Makers own the rest?
Or are all of them ZUN's creations and he only got rights to use only a few characters?
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About PC-98:
So did ZUN own Reimu, Marisa, Alice and Yuuka and Amusement Makers own the rest?
Or are all of them ZUN's creations and he only got rights to use only a few characters?
The whole IP rights thing is just an urban legend used by people uncomfortable with the truth: ZUN isn't bringing Mima or anyone else back because he doesn't like them as characters.
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refer to http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15336.msg1013301.html#msg1013301
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Regarding the music in fighting games, I knew somewhere that ZUN composed the original musics while the rest are Tasofro remixes. Now, regarding the remixes, is Tasofro free to choose which music to remix or do ZUN also pick which songs to use for each character?
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The whole IP rights thing is just an urban legend used by people uncomfortable with the truth: ZUN isn't bringing Mima or anyone else back because he doesn't like them as characters.
Although he did use Mima on the cover image of Akyuu's Untouched Score vol. 4.
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The whole IP rights thing is just an urban legend used by people uncomfortable with the truth: ZUN isn't bringing Mima or anyone else back because he doesn't like them as characters.
No...I'm pretty sure he isn't bringing them back because:
a) It would conflict with Windows chronology and story;
b) He likes to move on from the whole PC-98 era;
c) It'll be a real pain to think of a good story to follow them up all these years.
It's not like he doesn't like them as characters, rather he just can't...atleast for now.
More @ http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/92#more-92
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Although he did use Mima on the cover image of Akyuu's Untouched Score vol. 4.
Yeah... though it doesn't say that much considering that Akyuu's Untouched Score series is the PC-98 soundtrack. Its like saying the PC-98 remixes in Dolls in Pseudo Paradise mean anything.
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Yeah... though it doesn't say that much considering that Akyuu's Untouched Score series is the PC-98 soundtrack. Its like saying the PC-98 remixes in Dolls in Pseudo Paradise mean anything.
I never said I was disagreeing with Clarste's statement. I was just adding a little fact that not all fans are aware of. I'd never consider that appearance on a cd case as "Mima's great comeback" anyway.
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I notice that the translation of some touhou manga varies slightly from certain sites and thus I wanted to know which one of them does more accurately follow to the original one (japanese version)?
E.g. Touhou WoHH chapter 12
- http://www.batoto.net/read/_/154308/touhou-ibarakasen-wild-and-horned-hermit_v03_ch12_by_no-group/4
- http://www.batoto.net/read/_/190386/touhou-ibarakasen-wild-and-horned-hermit_v03_ch12_by_gaku-gaku-animal-land/12
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I notice that the translation of some touhou manga varies slightly from certain sites and thus I wanted to know which one of them does more accurately follow to the original one (japanese version)?
E.g. Touhou WoHH chapter 12
- http://www.batoto.net/read/_/154308/touhou-ibarakasen-wild-and-horned-hermit_v03_ch12_by_no-group/4
- http://g.e-hentai.org/s/bf346a65c7/624449-4
I don't think those two pages are drastically different, but speaking as the translator of the first one, I didn't have a proofreader back then and I translated it before the earlier chapter that explains what Komachi is talking about so I wasn't sure what was going on, so in this case I would trust the latter. It has better typesetting anyway.
...or so I thought but then they translated "Genbu Ravine" into "Xianwu's Ravine" (I put "marsh" but that was before we decided to call it a ravine) which mostly just puzzles me. That's a strange choice, even assuming that Xianwu means the same thing in Chinese. Might they have been translating the chapter from Chinese? That's always dangerous. They also didn't seem to realize that Suiki is a name from mythology (even though it literally means water demon). I suppose I might have been too conservative with "water dragon" though, and I also made the unfounded assumption that Suiki is male which certainly confused some people. If you're looking for faithfulness to the Japanese, mine seems to be more literal in a number of places, but that's not necessarily a good thing. And they had the complete opposite idea for Seiga's alternate plan for escaping the trap? I dunno what to think about that. (edit: apparently my version is wrong on this issue. Not unexpected.)
In conclusion, both have problems, but I'm biased so you should ask someone else.
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Are there any indications (pref in canon) as to how big the human village is population-wise?
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Are there any indications (pref in canon) as to how big the human village is population-wise?
Not to my Patchouli.
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I remember hearing some time ago that IOSYS was barred from participating in Reitaisai. Is this true, and what's the real backstory there?
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I also remember hearing that so I had to check. Since Reitaisai 3, they've released a new album at every Reitaisai and Comiket, except for C77 and C82. They've released albums in those time periods (JeuxInterdits is casually listed as a C77 album, even), but this doesn't mean that they didn't have a booth. I'm not really sure where they announce their table registration, though.
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New guy, here. I pretty much made an account just to ask this (though I'll probably be posting more later):
Does a full in-game translation of The Last Comer exist? I've been working on translating it myself (currently working on the various text images) and I want to make sure I'm not reinventing the wheel before I get too much further. I saw a thread here earlier where someone was translating it but it seems to have been dead for a while.
On that note, has anyone translated TLC's endings? I've found translations for just about everything else but I can't find anything for the endings. I'm a decent programmer and image editor, but a translator I am not.
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Regarding the music in fighting games, I knew somewhere that ZUN composed the original musics while the rest are Tasofro remixes. Now, regarding the remixes, is Tasofro free to choose which music to remix or do ZUN also pick which songs to use for each character?
Because nobody answered this before
Oh, and also, if shrine maidens can summon gods, and Sanae is considered a god as well a human, then can Reimu summon Sanae?
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Probably not.
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Has it been stated or at least implied anywhere in canon whether Youki Konpaku is Youmu father?
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Has it been stated or at least implied anywhere in canon whether Youki Konpaku is Youmu father?
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Personal_Memo_on_Youki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Personal_Memo_on_Youki)
Depending on the quality of the translation and what ZUN meant by "Youmu's old man". No other sources indicate any family bonds besides their same family name.
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It's grandfather, yes.
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Does the "Dim." in Phantasmagoria of Dim. Dream really stand for Dimensional. Sure the literal meaning of the Japanese and the story do somewhat suggest that Dim. = Dimensional, but can this really be confirmed?
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- Why does the "Five Impossible Requests" of Kaguya are known to be impossible tasks? Apart from the fact that Kaguya had them already from her possession, that it.
- Also what does those 5 items do actually? Does they grant one immense power or something like that?
1) "Stone begging bowl of the Buddha" from India.
2) "Jeweled branch" from the island of Mount Hourai.
3) "Legendary robe of the fire-rat" of China.
4) "Colored jewel" from a dragon's neck.
5) "Legendary Cowry" treasure of the swallows.
- Does anyone has any idea (theory) behind why the reason Reimu was afraid of those "5 Magic Stones" in SoEW?
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- Why does the "Five Impossible Requests" of Kaguya are known to be impossible tasks? Apart from the fact that Kaguya had them already from her possession, that it.
Aside of being base on the original tale which Kaguya is base on, the reason why they are "impossible" is because they are impossible to obtain (in the tale, Kaguya-hime asks five princes to bring these objects in exchange of her hand). A bowl from a god, branch of a tree what grows in an island what might not be real, skin of a burning rat (?), jewel from a dragon and cowry what must be born inside a swallow. It carries into her "new" impossible tasks, what include mineral from moon rocks, fictional gem, ceiling what was burned off and unknown material.
On whenever or not the items have any special powers, maybe. Marisa says the danmaku comes from the items rather than herself and some of the items do have special propeties (like the Salamender Shield is a burning leather shield). However, how do the items generate it is bit unknown (does she channel her energy through them or does she whip them out and they do all the work?)
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2) "Jeweled branch" from the island of Mount Hourai.
This one is explained in CiLR. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Udonge_Tree)
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Does the "Dim." in Phantasmagoria of Dim. Dream really stand for Dimensional. Sure the literal meaning of the Japanese and the story do somewhat suggest that Dim. = Dimensional, but can this really be confirmed?
夢時空 in the title also just means dream space-time; it's a clear yes, in any case.
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This one is explained in CiLR.
Can you please also post the source page and not just a wiki article? That article is not citing any sources.
Anyway, there seems to be some parts of that article that doesn't seem like it could be true.
Kaguya Houraisan owns a bonsai udonge kept unbloomed by her power over eternity, as well as a Jewelled Branch she received from a suitor.
Part of the article says she received the Jewelled Branch from a suitor? Does that mean the Hourai Branch, if so, what is the source of this? I don't remember her receiving any real artifacts from any of suitors. As far as I know, they all failed their quest.
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I don't remember her receiving any real artifacts from any of suitors. As far as I know, they all failed their quest.
As I remember the original story, some suitors tried to fool her by presenting a fake artifact.
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You know, if her artifacts have always been with her the whole time, where did she get them from? Did she bring some Lunar treasures when she was exiled?
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It's a possiblity. That or she acquired them during her exile.
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So, what exactly is the full extent of Seija's power? I mean, turning things around may have vast potential, such as redirecting an attack or screwing with metaphysical concepts (i.e; time, flow, etc). The latter sounds quite possible, if her in-game flipping mechanics is of any indication.
It's a little too quick to ask this I know, but somehow the abusability of her power makes me very curious.
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She certainly isn't very powerful. Consider that the whole reason DDC happened was because she's a weak youkai, that (according to her anyway) was bullied by the stronger ones. Also, since she needed the Mallet to be able to succeed in her society upheaval, I think it's safe to say that her powers can't be applied to concepts. The screen flipping tricks on the game are likely her inverting the protagonists perception, not flipping space itself.
Pretty sure low level stuff, like inverting the trajectory of a projectile, would be within her capabilities, but I doubt she's able to do much more than that.
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What age did Reimu and Marisa have approximately at the start of the PC-98 game and Windows one?
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Just thought I'd point out that flipping perception isn't exactly a low level thing either. There might be easier ways of this.
What age did Reimu and Marisa have approximately at the start of the PC-98 game and Windows one?
I'm pretty sure that they are eternally ~18. Also I don't think aging is a big concern for this series.
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Age is usually vague in this series. ZUN's descriptions of Reimu and Marisa (and Sakuya) have always been "between 10 and 20" although he hasn't given even that recently. Exceptions include the Sacrlet Sisters (who had exact ages given in EoSD) and historical figures like Miko who have known or approximate birth dates. But even that doesn't tell you their apparent age.
As to whether the characters actually get older or are stuck in comic strip time where years pass but nothing changes.... it's hard to tell. Akyuu is the only character with a specific birth date who also has a reason to age, but whenever she appears in a later story she also has a different artist so it's impossible to say whether she's supposed to be older or not. I'd say assuming Reimu and Marisa are always going to be in their late teens/early 20s is a safe bet.
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So, I just learned that Hina actually does just gain power from misfortune. However, if that's the case, how does that work with the definition of god? Isn't a god a creature that gathers power from faith? If Hina doesn't do this then how can she be considered a god?
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You seem a bit mistaken.
疫病神は、神という名前が付いているが、信仰を求めたりしない。普通の神様ではなく、妖怪の一部である。
Although Jinxes (yakubyougami, "plague god") have the name "god" attached to them, they do not seek faith. They aren't your average gods, they're a type of youkai.
(...Despite it saying she's also a curse god. She might as well be either.)
She isn't a god per se, but she could be construed as a god (basically a god, or youkai, of nagashibina). The thing is, even if she would originate as a god, because she amasses misfortune and it negatively affects the people around her, she becomes a taboo, regardless of her intentions. Because of this, she would turn into a youkai, and her existence would rather become dependent on the misfortune she gathers. Or something.
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You seem a bit mistaken.
疫病神は、神という名前が付いているが、信仰を求めたりしない。普通の神様ではなく、妖怪の一部である。
Although Jinxes (yakubyougami, "plague god") have the name "god" attached to them, they do not seek faith. They aren't your average gods, they're a type of youkai.
(...Despite it saying she's also a curse god. She might as well be either.)
She isn't a god per se, but she could be construed as a god (basically a god, or youkai, of nagashibina). The thing is, even if she would originate as a god, because she amasses misfortune and it negatively affects the people around her, she becomes a taboo, regardless of her intentions. Because of this, she would turn into a youkai, and her existence would rather become dependent on the misfortune she gathers. Or something.
Ok, this needs to be cleared up then, because the Wiki says something else. "They are not normal gods, but like a kind of youkai.".
In what way can she be considered a god?
Is she perhaps some kind of oscillator, shifting between god and youkai? So, when people make the dolls, she gains faith causing her to be a god, but then when people try to thank her they are befallen by misfortune, causing her to become a youkai?
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It's that sort of dualism that I think is being played on. Nagashibina are traditionally used by pouring your misfortune into and then sending them away down a stream. They're supposed to be a sort of scapegoat for bad things that would happen, esp. to children. However, the nagashibina themselves are commonly enshrined as good omens, and they're indeed prayed to while sending them away with the impurities. Hina, essentially being a representation of the nagashibina, takes on both of these aspects. She absorbs and gathers the misfortune of people, but because the misfortune is around her, it's inflicted on people and she becomes known as a jinx or one who gives curses. On the other hand she makes the paper nagashibina herself, gives them to people and they pray and put their misfortune into the dolls, which might as well be equivalent to an act of faith. She then gathers whatever is put into the dolls.
Along with the counter-intuitive notion of something with "god" in its name being supposed to mean something you should avoid and dislike.
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Well, I'm not too sure if all gods are supposed to be positive. Isn't there those cursed gods that Suwako commands. And didn't Reimu summon some sort of pestilence god?
However, if that's the case, how does that work with the definition of god? Isn't a god a creature that gathers power from faith? If Hina doesn't do this then how can she be considered a god?
The way I read it is that she is a god. But a special type that doesn't need faith. So, kind of like the exception to the rule.
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Anyone knows if whether Touhou WoHH chap 18 is already available for translation work?
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Anyone knows if whether Touhou WoHH chap 18 is already available for translation work?
Yes.
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Can we know when it will be finished?
Are there any more fanmade Phantasm Stage besides SA and TD?
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I think MoF had one.
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Can we know when it will be finished?
No.
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Did Reimu, Marisa, Alice and Yuuka had their surnames back in the PC-98 days?
For example... Alice already having the "Margatroid" on her name or was she simply called "Alice" back then?
I'm asking because I want to know if the surnames were only introduced in the Windows era.
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Marisa had her surname, but Alice and Yuuka didn't.
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Reimu also had her surname (and was the only one along with Marisa, Kana, Rikako, Chiyuri and Yumemi to have one in the PC-98 games).
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For what it's worth, Reimu's name was also written with a different kanji (I would call this equivalent to being spelled different;y).
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For what it's worth, Reimu's name was also written with a different kanji (I would call this equivalent to being spelled different;y).
How was her name then "spelled" in the PC-98 era?
I recall once reading somewhere that Tenshi was not really a human who ascend as a celestial by training but was most likely born as one or something like that. Any idea where that may come from or is it just me.
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靈夢 vs 霊夢. Same thing, just older kanji.
The Nawi clan served Celestials and were tasked by one with managing the Hinanawi keystone to prevent earthquakes. The Hinanawi clan served the Nawi clan who were thereby higher in status. When the Nawi clan died, they were enshrined as divine spirits. The Hinanawi clan were moved to heaven as reward for serving them while alive. Tenshi was born a human into the Hinanawi, and happened to be a young girl when they were promoted. Generally, Celestials become Celestials through training, so they "cheated". This is the main excuse for Tenshi acting spoiled, her boredom of heaven and wishing for excitement and rowdiness, etc.
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Regarding Shou, being an avatar of Bishamonten means people pray to her, right? Does this mean she, at one point, can accumulate enough faith and turn into a god? Or she won't since all the faith goes straight to Bishamonten?
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People don't pray to her, they pray to Bishamonten; she's just a representative of his will. So
I'd say that she's not fully youkai, though; she can't even transform into her beast form anymore, after all. Altough maybe it's just because her youkai type changed from beast youkai to treasure youkai, instead of her becoming divine or something.
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I'd she's not fully youkai, though; she can't even transform into her beast form anymore, after all. Although maybe it's just because her youkai type changed from beast youkai to treasure youkai, instead of her becoming divine or something.
What do you mean by she can't transform into her beast form anymore? Do you means that in the past she could change her physical form/appearance with that of a tiger or just that she can't really be described as a beast youkai anymore?
Does the song no. 17 (Meiling) of this video even exist or it is just a fake one? If no, may I know the name of that song?
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmUf4RnWnzY
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What do you mean by she can't transform into her beast form anymore? Do you means that in the past she could change her physical form/appearance with that of a tiger or just that she can't really be described as a beast youkai anymore?
The first one. She originated as a tiger youkai (not really an actual tiger, as they aren't native to Japan; she was a youkai that represented what the japanese thought tigers looked like from the stories they heard), but nowadays she can't transform into the man-eating beast she once was.
Well, Akyuu says it's likely that she can't, but in a meta sense I don't see why Zun would bother bringing that up if it wasn't true.
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In SoPM, someone says that Shou is currently the same type of being as Kanako. Kanako is a divine spirit (considered a type of youkai) who became a god, and would return to being a divine spirit if she lost all her faith.
Since people in Japan know what real tigers are like nowadays, it's likely that there's no longer anything sustaining Shou as a pseudo-tiger youkai, and her status as an avatar has become her main anchor to existence.
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Divine spirits are a type of youkai? Where's this stated? As far as I remember they're just lumps of desire generated from prayer/belief.
Since people in Japan know what real tigers are like nowadays, it's likely that there's no longer anything sustaining Shou as a pseudo-tiger youkai, and her status as an avatar has become her main anchor to existence.
That could be it, but I dunno if the outside world's knowledge affects Gensokyo's youkai like that. Altough I'm not even sure if Shou and Nazrin were in Gensokyo before UFO.
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Does the song no. 17 (Meiling) of this video even exist or it is just a fake one? If no, may I know the name of that song?
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmUf4RnWnzY
Title is 靴の音を、響かせて、その手を
In 凋叶棕's album 彩 , released in Reitaisei 9 .
Although I wonder how one can fake music.
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In SoPM, someone says that Shou is currently the same type of being as Kanako. Kanako is a divine spirit (considered a type of youkai) who became a god, and would return to being a divine spirit if she lost all her faith.
Since people in Japan know what real tigers are like nowadays, it's likely that there's no longer anything sustaining Shou as a pseudo-tiger youkai, and her status as an avatar has become her main anchor to existence.
A divine spirit is not a kind of youkai. Probably. In the context of Kanako, it's supposed to distinguish her from the "myriad gods" which have no form prior to receiving faith. The implication is that she used to be human or something else and was deified. In the context of being compared to Shou, the impression I got was that both Kanako and Shou gather faith on behalf of someone else. Just like Suwako is the true god enshrined at the Moriya Shrine, Bishamonten is the true god worshiped at the Myouren Temple. Kanako is an "avatar" of Suwako in a strange sense.
While the bit about Shou's pseudo-tiger nature being unstable and not enough to sustain her as a youkai is explicitly true I don't think that makes her anything like Kanako. Suwako is the one who would disappear completely without faith.
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Title is 靴の音を、響かせて、その手を
In 凋叶棕's album 彩 , released in Reitaisei 9 .
Although I wonder how one can fake music.
Sorry, what I mean is if that specific animated video shown (no.17) in the link exist or it was just a fake one.
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But Kanako is explicitly refered to as being one of the gods of the Moriya Shrine; I think it's safe to assume that she's also enshrined there. The whole reason she went to Gensokyo was to keep gathering faith, after all, and since Suwako was fine with ceasing to be a god, there wouldn't be a reason for Kanako to want to get more faith if it wasn't for her herself.
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But Kanako is explicitly refered to as being one of the gods of the Moriya Shrine; I think it's safe to assume that she's also enshrined there. The whole reason she went to Gensokyo was to keep gathering faith, after all, and since Suwako was fine with ceasing to be a god, there wouldn't be a reason for Kanako to want to get more faith if it wasn't for her herself.
Kanako is one of three gods at the shrine, counting Sanae too. But in the end it's the Moriya shrine and Suwako is the main god there. Kanako borrows Suwako's power to create miracles, and the faith goes mostly to Suwako. She's the boss, Kanako is the employee. The fact that Kanako is more proactive than Suwako and makes all the business decisions doesn't change who the owner of the shrine is.
Edit: Clearly Kanako gets some faith from her actions, but she's using the Moriya shrine to do so.
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So, first and foremost, Kanako is a god and Shou most certainly isn't. I have yet to see anything special about the status of "avatar". Shou doesn't seem to have any unique features as a result of it. In the end, I still categorize her as a beast youaki.
Personally I always want to compare her to Okuu, seeing as both are linked very closely to a god without actually being that god. Sure, Okuu doesn't gather faith but at this point I'm kinda thinking that the Yagarasu just doesn't care what Okuu does with its power.
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Okuu is a shrine. It's weird.
I think comparing them too closely is just going to confuse more than enlighten because Bishamonten is a Buddhist God, while Kanako and the rest are Shinto gods. Kanako made a brief comment about how she resembles Shou, but I'm sure that's only superficial. They're both aggressive faith-gatherers on behalf of their patrons. I absolutely would not read anything metaphysical into that comment. Shou is a beast-youkai and Kanako is a god.
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I woudn't call Suwako's status at the shrine as superior to Kanako's. There's no "boss" of the shrine. It works on division of tasks. Remember, Suwako was defeated by Kanako who took over her shrine during the Great Suwa War, but since she couldn't keep the Mishaguji at bay, she needed to keep Suwako around. If it wasn't for this setback, Kanako would probably kick Suwako out of her own shrine, but now they rely on each other.
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Kanako is one of three gods at the shrine, counting Sanae too. But in the end it's the Moriya shrine and Suwako is the main god there. Kanako borrows Suwako's power to create miracles, and the faith goes mostly to Suwako. She's the boss, Kanako is the employee. The fact that Kanako is more proactive than Suwako and makes all the business decisions doesn't change who the owner of the shrine is.
Edit: Clearly Kanako gets some faith from her actions, but she's using the Moriya shrine to do so.
But she defeated Suwako and stole the shrine. The only reason Suwako's still around is because they're friends (yeah, originally it was because the population and the Mishaguji didn't accept Kanako, but since the former aren't in the picture anymore, I'd guess that the latter doesn't really matter to Kanako). They run the thing together. The name of the thing doesn't really matter; it could've been kept because the region itself was called Moriya, or because Suwako wanted it to.
So, first and foremost, Kanako is a god and Shou most certainly isn't. I have yet to see anything special about the status of "avatar". Shou doesn't seem to have any unique features as a result of it. In the end, I still categorize her as a beast youaki.
She's explicitly stated to be a treasure youkai, though.
Her being as avatar means that she represents the god. What she says and do are considered to be Bishamonten's words and actions. That's why Nazrin was sent, to make sure Shou was being a good representative, and wasn't tarnishing Bishamonten's good name.
I imagine that being his avatar is also the only reason she can use the pagoda, but I'm not sure.
Personally I always want to compare her to Okuu, seeing as both are linked very closely to a god without actually being that god. Sure, Okuu doesn't gather faith but at this point I'm kinda thinking that the Yagarasu just doesn't care what Okuu does with its power.
Doesn't really work, I think; Shou is basically Bishamonten's "face" on the Myouren temple, while Okuu is a living shrine, which means that she actually has a part of the god inside her. As far as I can tell, other than possibly the pagoda, Shou doesn't have any physical/spiritual/divine/whatever connection to Bishamonten.
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Kanako conquered the shrine but couldn't kick Suwako out because she lacked the power and authority to run the shrine herself. That is exactly the relationship I was referring to. Kanako lacks the authority to provide the necessary functions of the Moriya Shrine. Suwako is a required part of the operation, while Kanako isn't. She's a parasite living off of Suwako's shrine.
That doesn't mean she submits to Suwako though, and I never meant to imply that. Perhaps "boss" is the wrong word, but "owner" seems very appropriate. Kanako does not own the shrine. Her position is not equal to Suwako's. They seem to have forgiven each other over the centuries and become partners, but in the end it's still Kanako mooching off of Suwako, in exchange for handling the day to day business that Suwako doesn't care about. Kanako pays Suwako rent.
Edit: The Mishaguji are still very much a part of the shrine. They're how the shrine does anything at all. They dug the hole for the nuclear reactor, and they bestow the blessings and curses of the shrine.
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Kanako conquered the shrine but couldn't kick Suwako out because she lacked the power and authority to run the shrine herself. That is exactly the relationship I was referring to. Kanako lacks the authority to provide the necessary functions of the Moriya Shrine. Suwako is a required part of the operation, while Kanako isn't. She's a parasite living off of Suwako's shrine.
That doesn't mean she submits to Suwako though, and I never meant to imply that. Perhaps "boss" is the wrong word, but "owner" seems very appropriate. Kanako does not own the shrine. Her position is not equal to Suwako's. They seem to have forgiven each other over the centuries and become partners, but in the end it's still Kanako mooching off of Suwako, in exchange for handling the day to day business that Suwako doesn't care about.
Edit: The Mishaguji are still very much a part of the shrine. They're how the shrine does anything at all. They dug the hole for the nuclear reactor, and they bestow the blessings and curses of the shrine.
Hm, true, that makes sense. Although I don't think it's because Kanako didn't have the power to run things, she just lacked the respect Suwako commanded. But it's the same result, in the end.
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Kanako is a guest, but she is the one who gathers faith, because Suwako isn't even interested in it anymore. She needs Kanako just as much as Kanako needs her.
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Kanako is a guest, but she is the one who gathers faith, because Suwako isn't even interested in it anymore. She needs Kanako just as much as Kanako needs her.
If she doesn't care, then she either wouldn't mind fading out of existence or she doesn't feel the need to do anything as long as Kanako is around. In either case, she doesn't need Kanako, since Kanako isn't doing anything she actually desires. Need is always relative to goals.
Oh, and in case there was any confusion, I don't think beast youkai and treasure youkai are mutually exclusive. Nazrin is also a beast/treasure youkai after all.
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Oh, and in case there was any confusion, I don't think beast youkai and treasure youkai are mutually exclusive. Nazrin is also a beast/treasure youkai after all.
But if Shou can't even turn into her animal form anymore, there isn't much point in calling her a beast youkai. She doesn't even have any animal traits, like ears or a tail, like all other beast youkai do.
Hm. That makes me wonder if Nazrin has a mouse form.
Edit: Wait, where's stated that Nazrin is both? The fact that she finds treasure doesn't make her a treasure youkai. As far as I remember she's always refered to as a mouse youkai.
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Like I said. Division of tasks. If Kanako wanted to, she'd be the sole goddess with no respect of the populace, unbable to keep curse gods from rampaging and Suwako would be a forgotten shrineless god. Sure, Suwako could live without Kanako's invasion, but rather than taking the lose/lose situation, the two decided to cooperate.
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Like I said. Division of tasks. If Kanako wanted to, she'd be the sole goddess with no respect of the populace, unbable to keep curse gods from rampaging and Suwako would be a forgotten shrineless god. Sure, Suwako could live without Kanako's invasion, but rather than taking the lose/lose situation, the two decided to cooperate.
The thing is that there's no "lose" for Suwako, at least not anymore, so their current relationship really is more like Clastre said.
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She has tigers stripes in her hair? I suppose it really depends on what you expect out of beast youkai. To me, it's more of an accident of origin. It doesn't really effect on their "powers". Heck, the crow tengu don't have any animal parts either, at least in game art. If they can hide they're wings most of the time, why are we assuming that Shou, who's explicitly trying to appeal to normal humans, wouldn't hide her beast parts?
And maybe you're taking "treasure youkai" too seriously as a term? Not everything is a taxonomic classification. I figured it was a description.
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Welp, Kanako didn't have a shrine before the Suwa War and she managed just fine, so she technically doesn't need Suwako or her shrine either.
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Something I want to ask. Not really related to Touhou but anyway.
Are the major gods (Amaterasu, Izanagi, etc...) in Shinto form part of the 8 millions gods or are they different kind of kami (higher kami if you want).
Is this "Kotoamatsukami" (first gods which came into existence at the time of the creation of the universe) the oldest gods in Japan and if yes, is there any particular reason(s) why we heard so little about their existence as compare to Amaterasu or Izanagi?
- And finally, do those major gods (e.g. Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu) have the authority to command/give orders to those 8 millions gods (e.g Kanako and Sawako)?
Can Marisa even fly without her broom?
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She has tigers stripes in her hair? I suppose it really depends on what you expect out of beast youkai. To me, it's more of an accident of origin. It doesn't really effect on their "powers". Heck, the crow tengu don't have any animal parts either, at least in game art. If they can hide they're wings most of the time, why are we assuming that Shou, who's explicitly trying to appeal to normal humans, wouldn't hide her beast parts?
Well, it's not like Tengu are beast youkai, but I see your point. Still, I feel that the fact that she can't turn into an animal anymore makes classifying her as a beast youkai nonsensical, seeing as this is one of their main characteristics.
And maybe you're taking "treasure youkai" too seriously as a term? Not everything is a taxonomic classification. I figured it was a description.
Meh, seems likely, the only time the term even appears is on Shou's SoPM profile (her offical one just says that her species is "youkai").
Something I want to ask. Not really related to Touhou but anyway.
Are the major gods (Amaterasu, Izanagi, etc...) in Shinto form part of the 8 millions gods or are they different kind of kami (higher kami if you want).
I don't think there's a distinction, no.
Is this "Kotoamatsukami" (first gods which came into existence at the time of the creation of the universe) the oldest gods in Japan and if yes, is there any particular reason(s) why we heard so little about their existence as compare to Amaterasu or Izanagi?
Maybe they just don't care about earthly affairs? Usually the greater creator deities in polytheistic mythologies don't really involve themselves too much with humanity.
Can Marisa even fly without her broom?
Yes. She uses the broom just because she thinks it wouldn't be right for a witch to fly around without one.
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Are the major gods (Amaterasu, Izanagi, etc...) in Shinto form part of the 8 millions gods or are they different kind of kami (higher kami if you want).
As I understand it "8 million gods" can refer to Shinto gods in general, or to ones that don't fit into a particular category. It's like the difference between saying "the people of this country" and "the king and people of this country" - the king is still a person, but he's excluded by context.
Is this "Kotoamatsukami" (first gods which came into existence at the time of the creation of the universe) the oldest gods in Japan and if yes, is there any particular reason(s) why we heard so little about their existence as compare to Amaterasu or Izanagi?
Same reason you hear less about Uranus than you do about Cronus, and less about Cronus than you do about Zeus.
- And finally, do those major gods (e.g. Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu) have the authority to command/give orders to those 8 millions gods (e.g Kanako and Sawako)?
I'd guess that they have the authority to make requests, but no one's obliged to follow them. It probably works the same way as the Imperial Court.
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Welp, Kanako didn't have a shrine before the Suwa War and she managed just fine, so she technically doesn't need Suwako or her shrine either.
Yes, Kanako doesn't need Suwako, strictly speaking. But if she wants to live in the Moriya shrine, she would need her. If she decides to not do so, then yes, she wouldn't need Suwako.
I think the whole point is that she cannot run the Moriya shrine without Suwako, which is why Suwako is the "owner" and Kanako is not.
- And finally, do those major gods (e.g. Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu) have the authority to command/give orders to those 8 millions gods (e.g Kanako and Sawako)?
Suwako, definitely not, since she is a native god or something like that. Kanako, likely also not. Eirin likely outranks both Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, but you don't see her ordering Kanako or Suwako around.
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(Eirin likely outranks both Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu), but you don't see her ordering Kanako or Suwako around.
May I know in what term do you think that Eirin likely "outranks" both Tsukiyomi and Ameterasu?
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Eirin is implied to be Omoikane, who in some accounts is of the same "generation" of Izanami and Izanagi; if that's the case, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that she's higher is the divine ladder than Amaterasu and her brothers.
What we know for sure is that she's older than Tsukuyomi, and that he relied heavily on her when building the Lunar civilization. But if she outranks him or not is never really discussed. Amaterasu is implied to be his sister in Touhou as well, which, considering they were all born basically at the same time in the myths, would also make Eirin her elder.
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Rank seems like a strange way to look at it in the first place. This isn't a military and not all gods are on the same side anyway. Surely Tsukiyomi keeps a royal court of lesser gods at the Lunar Capital, or something like that, but even if he's the Lord of the Moon that only applies to gods that choose to live in his realm. Other gods can live wherever they want, and the Native Gods are implied to be actively opposed to the Heavenly Gods.
Eirin, as Omoikane, seems to be older than and respected by the other gods, including Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, but that doesn't mean she outranks them. They have no duty to listen to her orders. They just respect and trust her, so they follow her advice.
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Not to mention that Omoikane is basically the god of Knowledge/Wisdom. It makes sense that they ask and follow her advice, if you don't then you're probably against her in the first place.
As for the question about the Kami, I can't explain much but here's what I know.
There are considered to be three main variations of Kami, Amatsu-kami ("the heavenly deities"), Kunitsu-kami ("the gods of the earthly realm"), and the Ya-o-yorozu no kami (八百万の神, countless kami, "八百万" literally means eight million, though they meant it as "many". These classifications are not considered strictly divided, because of the ever-changing nature of Kami, but they are held as guidelines for grouping Kami.
In general, Amatsukami refers to kami residing in the Plain of High Heaven (Takamagahara), together with those that were born in Takamagahara but later descended to the land of Japan. The Kojiki discriminates five kami as existing in the heavens, namely Amenominakanushi no kami, Takamimusuhi no kami, Kamimusuhi no kami, Umashiashikabihikoji no kami, and Amenotokotachi no kami. These five it calls "separate kami of heaven" (kotoamatsukami). The term "separate heavenly kami" originates in Kojiki itself, which states, "The foregoing five kami are the separate heavenly kami." These five kami are characterized by the fact that they came into existence alone (hitorigami), and after coming into being, "hid" themselves. After them are just called Amatsukami. The main difference, as mentioned above, is that they were created or based from something.
Example of this group: Izanagi, Omoikane, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, Susano-o, etc.
The Kunitsukami are earthly kami in Shinto tradition, and they also serve as earth spirits that protected humanity and provided good fortune (although it is known that kami in general were more like nature spirits, the kunitsukami are the closest to that). They once ruled over Japan until the Amatsukami (heavenly gods) expanded their influence. Though most of them are Native Gods/Spirits, a human can become a Kunitsukami. Okuninushi was a human if I'm not mistaken.
Example of this group: Sarutahiko, Okuninushi, Sukuna-Hitona, etc. Yes, I played too much Megaten
As for the Yaoyorozu no Kami(hey, the first link is Touhou, because why not?) are pretty much any Kami that came to being in the world, since virtually any thing may be kami, if it makes us feel the existence of supernatural or extraordinary power and impresses us with a sense of awe, regardless of whether it is "good" or "evil".
Taken from third volume of Kojikiden:
In general, kami refers first to the manifold kami of heaven and earth we see in the ancient classics, and to the spirits (mitama) in shrines consecrated to the same. And it further refers to all other aweinspiring things?people of course, but also birds, beasts, grass and trees, even the ocean and mountains?which possess superlative power not normally found in this world. "Superlative" here means not only superlative in nobility, goodness, or virility, since things which are evil and weird as well, if they inspire unusual awe, are also called kami.
Example of this group: mountain gods, the god of rice fields, the god of toilet, god of kitchen and god of the rice grain...you know the drill. It's everything anyway!
From these, I'll put Kanako(since she came from Yamato, which are said to be descendant of gods and worked under the orders of Amaterasu) and Eirin into the Amatsukami, Suwako into the Kunitsukami, and that god of metal that Reimu summoned in WaHH into the Yaoyorozu.
Also, age doesn't really mean much to these kami. Take Amatsu-mikaboshi, he's even older than those Kotoamatsukami but is only considered a minor god, since he never do much anyway. So I think there's no reason for Kanako to follow Eirin's or even the Watatsukis' orders around. Kami are free to choose who to listen to and give their help. I think the reason Amaterasu helped her was just because she wants to.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
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Eirin, as Omoikane, seems to be older than and respected by the other gods, including Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, but that doesn't mean she outranks them. They have no duty to listen to her orders. They just respect and trust her, so they follow her advice.
Being higher rank than someone doesn't necessarily mean you can order them around. I just see Eirin as being in a higher divine status than Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, given which generation she is from.
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Even in Greek mythology Titans are older than gods and they once ruled over everything. But look at them now. :P
Age =/= power.
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Even in Greek mythology Titans are older than gods and they once ruled over everything. But look at them now. :P
Age =/= power.
That depends on the mythology. And it's not like creator or primeval gods tend to enter in conflict with the younger ones that much for us to see who'd win (Gaia and Ouranos never directly fought anyone, IIRC (the thing with the sickle was an ambush, it doesn't count)).
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Will the questions/ans that will be asked to ZUN in that particular event (in September) be post in this site or somewhere else after the event?
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Nope! We'll be listening to the Q&A panel ourselves with no audio recording devices, and then keeping all of the answers to ourselves! We've even convinces AWA staff to not post any videos of the panel to their YouTube channel! THE SESSION WILL FOREVER BE KEPT ALL TO OURSELVES! AHAHAHAHA!
(http://i40.tinypic.com/r1g11l.png)
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TAOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISTS (http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/angry/smiley.gif)
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Two questions.
私のカメラが火を噴くわ！
Hatate's line in th125, when you select a scene where she hasn't taken a picture yet.
Is this supposed to be some kind of idiom or reference?
Is てゐ pronounced the same way as てい, or is ゐ pronounced separately?
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There is an idiom where 火を噴く means something was kept pent up and then it bursts out, like keeping yourself composed and then bursting out in anger. I guess that sort of makes sense if you considered it meaning like "my camera is raring to go!" or something.
(http://i.imgur.com/fluqv2W.jpg)
And yes, same as てい.
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From Touhou Wiki:
"Apparently her arms are connected inside her body as well, so she can retract one while extending the other, such as in one of her spellcards from Mountain of Faith."
I don't think the name of that spell card is supposed to be taken literally...
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That's from SoPM. An actual characteristic found in some kappa stories too. I'd say our kappas just use tools instead.
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That's a pretty concrete interpretation of a paragraph from SoPM:
They also have a characteristic called tsuuhai. Tsuuhai means that their arms are connected and able to stretch or retract freely, but it is also said that they are actually using some kind of tool to just make it look like their arms are stretching instead.
The wording is actually even less "certain" than this translation. I feel the nuance is more like "Kappa are supposed to have this ability, buuuut people are saying it's just a trick".
Really, this is Akyuu reporting on what kappa are apparently able to do without having even seen it in action. We're explicitly shown a "kappa's arm" to be the usual extending machine, in WaHH 1, but I guess if you do assume that the gift was just a fairy prank after all, that it doesn't really mean anything. Personally, I think the existence of the machine combined with people saying Kappa's tsuuhai is just a machine, probably means it is. Seems like an odd thing to make up, in any case.
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I decided to post this post because of a bunch of Touhou fangames ON THE FREAKING APP STORE. Did ZUN change his minds on Touhou fangame apps, or he didn't?
Edit: I Cirnobrain'd myself. Sorry for inconvidences, moderators.
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That's a pretty concrete interpretation of a paragraph from SoPM:The wording is actually even less "certain" than this translation. I feel the nuance is more like "Kappa are supposed to have this ability, buuuut people are saying it's just a trick".
Really, this is Akyuu reporting on what kappa are apparently able to do without having even seen it in action. We're explicitly shown a "kappa's arm" to be the usual extending machine, in WaHH 1, but I guess if you do assume that the gift was just a fairy prank after all, that it doesn't really mean anything. Personally, I think the existence of the machine combined with people saying Kappa's tsuuhai is just a machine, probably means it is. Seems like an odd thing to make up, in any case.
I agree. The article sounds like Akyuu is just reporting what she hears, but is very skeptical of it. Given what else we know about the kappa it's certainly a trick. Whoever read it completely literally and wrote it on the wiki was missing the point.
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Don't worry, they've taken that into account. The rest of the paragraph that game2011 cited:
"This would appear to be another commonality among kappa, but some speculate that this may be the effect of certain tools they use."
They just copied and slightly rephrased the description from SoPM, it seems.
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Thanks for the clear up on the kappa stuff!
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Forgive me if this has already been asked, or if this is the wrong place to ask.
I remember reading that not all Shinigami are supposed to take lives. Most just do tour-guide things around Hell, or official documentation for lives. So my question is, are the Ferryman type shinigami the ones who actually do take lives, or is there another kind who does that kind of work?
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Forgive me if this has already been asked, or if this is the wrong place to ask.
I remember reading that not all Shinigami are supposed to take lives. Most just do tour-guide things around Hell, or official documentation for lives. So my question is, are the Ferryman type shinigami the ones who actually do take lives, or is there another kind who does that kind of work?
According to Komachi in WaHH chapter 13, no shinigami are supposed to take lives, ever. Death is something that happens on its own, the souls naturally float towards the Sanzu river, and the shinigami merely ferry them. When the afterlife wants someone dead (for example if they're evil and immortal) they send a Kishin to kill them. But killing them isn't the same thing as taking their life. There's no "soul collection" process. They're just dead now, so the natural processes can work on them.
The entire idea of shinigami collecting souls is a lie spread by the Bureau of Right and Wrong, for whatever reason.
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Don't worry, they've taken that into account. The rest of the paragraph that game2011 cited:
"This would appear to be another commonality among kappa, but some speculate that this may be the effect of certain tools they use."
They just copied and slightly rephrased the description from SoPM, it seems.
That isn't the issue, the problem is that Darkslime rephrased it in a way that doesn't keep the original's meaning and instead makes it sound as if they do actually have that ability and that the tools are just speculation with little basis. Really, it's the opposite. The machine arms explain how the kappa integrate their historical extending arm with something more appropriate for the kappa of Gensokyo. That's my problem here. I think I'll change it a bit.
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Wow. Never heard that one before. EoSD a PC-98 game. He'll be delighted to hear that.
I wasn't referring to the game itself, but some of the characters within it.
Double "wow." I guess you haven't heard of the cameos and mentions that they've made in the manga and other literature then (such as Rumia's cameos in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red and Oriental Sacred Place, or Flandre's importance in a certain article in BAiJR and heavily-implied cameo in Inaba of the Earth and Inaba of the Moon)...? And you haven't seen them appear in Shoot the Bullet as bosses? Or, you haven't seen them grouped with the other first several Windows games' characters in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense?
I'm not trying to slam you because, clearly, if you're making a truly baffling statement like that, then I'm justifiably inclined to believe that you haven't done a lot of research on these characters to begin with; I'm being sincere here. :o
I am purely speaking of appearances in games here. But if we bring in cameos and other appearances in literature, than one can argue that Rumia's and Flandre's appearances are far less than other peoples. And their appearances in PMiSS and BAiJR were a given, because those essentially covered every character ZUN made to those points within the Windows era, and to find out more about their personalities and histories. And in retrospect, I have never truly played StB or even DS.
I will quote this, as it wasn't said by me but I agree with it (pertaining to Flandre only):
Strangely, some fans are now starting to come up with the idea that Flandre has become a "PC-98 character" who has disappeared from the Touhou Project (like Mima and Shinki). This is due to Flandre not making many appearances and because Embodiment of Scarlet Devil was released not far from Mystic Square. Her lack of appearances is however likely to be her limits on movement as her only appearances is within or around the Scarlet Devil Mansion. The number of appearances in-game and within print works is average compared with many other characters. Although when grouped with other characters from Embodiment of Scarlet Devil (Excluding mid-bosses), her appearances do appear to be limited
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(For reference: Helepolis was pointing people away from the Ask ZUN Questions thread to this thread in order to sort out questions that were being posed to ZUN that could be answered here instead.)
Flandre did not appear in any PC-98 games. She appeared in a Windows game. She is by definition not a PC-98 character.
Ignoring the ZUN-written works she has appeared in does not change this.
What you are quoting is the "Fandom" section of her wiki article, which is always ridiculous.
What you're basically doing is conflating "PC-98" with "characters who have not returned", which is changing what PC-98 means for your own purposes, and seems like a silly argument to make.
Might as well say the world is flat. This is a non-issue that isn't even really up for debate.
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Are there any official names for the different kinds of bullets? There are no sources anywhere that specifically say that. Yes, I checked the Touhou Wiki.
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Official no, de-facto yes.
小玉 - shoudama - small bullet
中玉 - chuudama - medium bullet
大玉 - oodama - bubble bullet
粒弾 - tsubodan - dot/pellet bullet
米粒弾 - kometsubodan - rice bullet
水滴弾 - suitekidan - water droplet bullet
結晶弾 - kesshodan - crystal bullet
鱗弾/楔弾 - urokodan/kusabidan - triangle/wedge/scale bullet
楕円弾 - daendan - oval bullet
ナイフ弾 - naifudan - knives duh
クナイ弾 - kunaidan - kunai duh
Would be some common ones.
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Sorry if this was asked before, but is Touhou "protected" ? I wondered about that because I saw a Touhiu app on App Store, and it would be against the Touhou fan works guideline, and the Apple's application uploading guide lines if Touhou is protected.
Edit: Grammar fix for grammar nazis... possibly.
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Putting Touhou derivative works on systems such as App Stores or Xbox Live is explicitly forbidden (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights#Copyright_status.2FTerms_of_Use_of_the_Touhou_Project) by ZUN.
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(For reference: Helepolis was pointing people away from the Ask ZUN Questions thread to this thread in order to sort out questions that were being posed to ZUN that could be answered here instead.)
Flandre did not appear in any PC-98 games. She appeared in a Windows game. She is by definition not a PC-98 character.
Ignoring the ZUN-written works she has appeared in does not change this.
What you are quoting is the "Fandom" section of her wiki article, which is always ridiculous.
What you're basically doing is conflating "PC-98" with "characters who have not returned", which is changing what PC-98 means for your own purposes, and seems like a silly argument to make.
Might as well say the world is flat. This is a non-issue that isn't even really up for debate.
Oh, I thought Helepolis was pointing it this way because it wasn't relevant to the subject of asking questions for the ZUN interview...
I didn't think of it like that, to be honest. I thought the term was generally pointed in the direction of "characters who have not returned", since the only PC-98 era character to come back was Yuuka (which she first made her appearance in LLS).
If I offend or make it seem silly, I apologize, as I am still quite new to Touhou and I learn a great many things about it everyday (some of which seems to be fandom). It only makes it harder when I try to sort out the facts in my head and often get myself confused on some of the issues. I usually don't speak with people who are so knowledgeable on the facts.
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Does Nue have a true form? In some of the extra stages of UFO, it implies that her true form is her humanoid form. For example, Nue says things like "I was just thinking...I'd better do something before you hurt my true form" and "But now that you've seen me, I'll have to bury you so I can go back to being an unknown." However, in SoPM, Nue is described as " a youkai whose real form cannot be established."
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Putting Touhou derivative works on systems such as App Stores or Xbox Live is explicitly forbidden (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights#Copyright_status.2FTerms_of_Use_of_the_Touhou_Project) by ZUN.
Ok. Thank you for answering.
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Does Nue have a true form? In some of the extra stages of UFO, it implies that her true form is her humanoid form. For example, Nue says things like "I was just thinking...I'd better do something before you hurt my true form" and "But now that you've seen me, I'll have to bury you so I can go back to being an unknown." However, in SoPM, Nue is described as " a youkai whose real form cannot be established."
I've always found this funny because it doesn't make any sense for Nue to just decide to show you her true form for no reason and then complain that she's shown you her true form. On the other hand, it would make sense for her to try and trick you into thinking it's her true form. She might as well have said that for any form she could have taken, and you would have to believe her just the same.
In my view, her "true" form just means it's the form she prefers to take to represent herself. Especially considering youkai phase into existence, a true shapeshifter by nature shouldn't have any one true form. However, for the purpose of defining a character, yes, this would be her true form. Her only other form is the nueball anyway, as far as we know.
If I offend or make it seem silly, I apologize, as I am still quite new to Touhou and I learn a great many things about it everyday (some of which seems to be fandom). It only makes it harder when I try to sort out the facts in my head and often get myself confused on some of the issues. I usually don't speak with people who are so knowledgeable on the facts.
A pointer, the official books are a very important resource on Gensokyo. They very often contain a great deal more of detailed information about characters, places and the world, than the games do.
Very rarely do characters actually return in later games; generally the only times they do is if they're a player character, it's a camera game, or it's a versus game. However, many characters do reappear in written works, especially in the various manga. The written works, unlike the games, have a chance to show you the life in Gensokyo when the protagonists aren't going out to solve some incident. This is naturally where you see the various previously-established characters and places reappearing.
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I didn't think of it like that, to be honest. I thought the term was generally pointed in the direction of "characters who have not returned", since the only PC-98 era character to come back was Yuuka (which she first made her appearance in LLS).
Yuuka is not the only character to have returned. There are 2 characters that returned from PC-98. Yuuka and Alice. Both have them also make random appearances in the manga, the latter even appears in the fighting games and some main games.
Does Nue have a true form? In some of the extra stages of UFO, it implies that her true form is her humanoid form.
Yes, that is Nue's true form. Hatate was able to take a picture of Nue's true form, thus more or less confirming that it is her true form.
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There are 2 characters that returned from PC-98. Yuuka and Alice.
And, like, Marisa and Reimu. (And if the yin-yang orb is sentient, that too I guess?)
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While on the topic of Nue, what her ability does is making people perceive things differently, right? So if she uses her ability on a bird, some people might see it as still a bird, some people see it as an UFO, some people see it as other random stuff their brain perceives it as. Then what if someone takes a photo of said object while it was under Nue's power? Would it show its true form, or would each people still perceive them differently?
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While on the topic of Nue, what her ability does is making people perceive things differently, right? So if she uses her ability on a bird, some people might see it as still a bird, some people see it as an UFO, some people see it as other random stuff their brain perceives it as. Then what if someone takes a photo of said object while it was under Nue's power? Would it show its true form, or would each people still perceive them differently?
I don't think this could be answered, since there were no instances of this. Hatate's case might be special, since she uses spirit photography. But personally, I'd say the photo would show the object's true form anyway.
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If I offend or make it seem silly, I apologize, as I am still quite new to Touhou and I learn a great many things about it everyday (some of which seems to be fandom). It only makes it harder when I try to sort out the facts in my head and often get myself confused on some of the issues. I usually don't speak with people who are so knowledgeable on the facts.
Hey, we were all new once, it's no biggie.
Except Drake. He was never new to the forums. He was here before the code was even written.
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In my view, her "true" form just means it's the form she prefers to take to represent herself. Especially considering youkai phase into existence, a true shapeshifter by nature shouldn't have any one true form. However, for the purpose of defining a character, yes, this would be her true form. Her only other form is the nueball anyway, as far as we know.
Nue's not really a shapeshifter anyway. All she has is her "unidentified" illusion power. She can't intentionally choose the shape of herself or anything else, all she can do is make sure that the observer can't recognize it. So she has her actual form, and the "unidentified" form which the player sees as a glowing energy ball.
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What's the instrument that ZUN used a lot in UFO (the one that to my musically-unaware ears sounds a bit like an accordion)?
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Probably thinking of Reed Romance, which is a tone made of a combination of saxophones.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7011655
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I learned today that Prince Shotoku not only actively supported Buddhism but was pivotal in its establishment in Japan. Why would ZUN choose to use Prince Shotoku as Miko's identity rather then someone else?
Is the relation between vampires and mirrors ever brought up anywhere in canon.
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I learned today that Prince Shotoku not only actively supported Buddhism but was pivotal in its establishment in Japan. Why would ZUN choose to use Prince Shotoku as Miko's identity rather then someone else?
Isn't that exactly why? Even in her Touhou backstory it says she spread Buddhism as a cover because it teaches the peasants to be satisfied with their lives instead of questioning their king. The whole "joke" with Miko wouldn't even make any sense if she weren't famous for being the father of Buddhism in Japan.
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Isn't that exactly why? Even in her Touhou backstory it says she spread Buddhism as a cover because it teaches the peasants to be satisfied with their lives instead of questioning their king. The whole "joke" with Miko wouldn't even make any sense if she weren't famous for being the father of Buddhism in Japan.
Well, I knew she was manipulative. I thought she also actually believed it.
Another question. Shizuha Aki paints the leaves, but wouldn't that be a fairies job, since that's a natural process? Is there something going on here? I figure she just may not be the only one painting the leaves.
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Both gods and fairies have powers that can alter natural phenomena, but that doesn't mean that painting leaves should be the fairies' job. We haven't yet been introduced to any prominent or even background leaf-painting autumn fairies. Shizuha is a goddess and she can, like all gods, divide her being ad infinitum, so for her to paint all the leaves would not be anything difficult. Likewise, Kanako is a goddess of rain and wind, but we haven't seen any rain or wind fairies, though there are the tengu who manipulate the wind. Cirno is an ice fairy, but she isn't the one who makes it snow in winter, nor is she the one who is responsible for the beginning of winter.
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I'm pretty sure fairies don't have jobs (unless of course they get hired by kappa). Their duty to nature is merely to exist. Nature doesn't have jobs either. Stuff just... is.
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Both gods and fairies have powers that can alter natural phenomena, but that doesn't mean that painting leaves should be the fairies' job. We haven't yet been introduced to any prominent or even background leaf-painting autumn fairies. Shizuha is a goddess and she can, like all gods, divide her being ad infinitum, so for her to paint all the leaves would not be anything difficult. Likewise, Kanako is a goddess of rain and wind, but we haven't seen any rain or wind fairies, though there are the tengu who manipulate the wind. Cirno is an ice fairy, but she isn't the one who makes it snow in winter, nor is she the one who is responsible for the beginning of winter.
The way I understood it, fairies are natural phenomenon. So since changing the colors of the leaves is a natural process fairies would have to be involved. The more commonly known idea is called Gnome theory which says that all natural phenomenon are actually gnomes, but the concept is the same. Cirno and other fairies are just particular fairies.
I suppose its kinda of a pointless observation to make. If fairies are everything then of course fairies are responsible for things. That's like saying the atoms of the floor are holding you up.
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Faries are the embodiment of natural phenomenon. They represent an aspect of nature; they aren't described as being its cause.
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Hmmm, I'm not sure if there is too much of a difference. Let's use Lily White as an example. She is a spring fairy, she may not necessarily cause spring, but if she is there, spring is there. In a similar case, if she does not go to a specific place, spring will not be there.
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Er no, that's the sort of faulty relationship we want to avoid making. Lily goes where spring is and announces that it's spring, but this doesn't mean that it isn't spring if Lily doesn't show up. While Lily implies Spring, Spring does not imply Lily. On top of that, Lily does not cause Spring, but it's plausible that Spring "causes" Lily in a sense.
Especially since we're talking in the context of fairies having jobs of them to "do/make" nature, yes there is a difference.
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Lily's presence don't even necessarily imply Spring. We see her on PCB before Spring is returned to Gensokyo, and she's around during HM, that happened during Summer.
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There's also a fairy of rainy season in CoLA that was the cause of the prolonged rainy season around Kourindou. In general, it seems there's no uniformity among fairies in that regard. Some cause the natural phenomena, like Cirno. Some just hang around where it already exists, like Lily. Doesn't mean there are fairies for each natural phenomenon, though.
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(Some cause the natural phenomena, like Cirno.) Some just hang around where it already exists, like Lily.
Cirno can do what?
- What the difference between Cirno (ice fairy) and Letty (seasonal youkai)?
- Why does Letty hate to being compared to Cirno, is it related to those lines?
L: Oh, that's a good idea. Well, that's what I'd like to say, but I manipulate the cold. Don't confuse it with manipulating cold air like a certain fairy.
A: They sound similar to me...
L: Those fairies are just minor anomalies of nature. I, on the other hand, am a great youkai that lives in nature.
What youkai use leaves as money?
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Cirno chills the air around her just by being there. You can get frostbitten simply by touching her. I guess that's what C. Angel meant.
Cirno is a fairy, an embodiment of nature; she represents cold air, I'd assume, considering that's what she controls with her ability. Letty is a (type of) Yuki-onna, a youkai that lives on snowy regions and freeze humans. She's not, by the way, a seasonal youkai. She isn't restricted to Winter (she appears on HM, after all), she just doesn't like being around when it's not Winter.
She doesn't like being compared to Cirno because she's stronger than her. Presumably, the difference between "manipulating cold air" and "manipulating cold" is simply the extent on how much control they have over "cold"; how much raw power they have. Cirno can freeze frogs, Letty can freeze humans. Cirno can make snow fall, Letty can make a snowstorm. Stuff like that, I assume.
'sides who the hell would like to be compared to a fairy
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Pretty much what Sagus said. Letty prefers to be out when it's already cold and makes everything even colder. Cirno is out whenever she wants but can cool down stuff only in close vicinity. Also, Cirno isn't too strong even in winter - freezing a lake was too much for her, while Letty can make whole snowstorms way worse. However, she can't just plain freeze stuff, unless you count the effects of stronger snowstorms when she's around.
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Cirno doesn't cause natural phenomena though. Yes, she can control cold, but it's almost by definition an unnatural cold. She tries to freeze frogs in the summer, for example. She isn't responsible for the coldness of nature in any sense at all. Cirno is an embodiment of the Misty Lake with ice powers. Sunny is an embodiment of the sun with light-bending powers. Just as Sunny doesn't make the sun rise, neither does Cirno make anything cold as a part of nature. The fact that she has powers of her own doesn't make her any less "hanging around" then Lily. If I had to state a difference between the two it would be that Cirno is connected to a geographical location (the lake) while Lily is connected to a season.
In terms of general fairy-ness, I think it would be much more accurate to think of them as a byproduct of nature than as being related to its functions. None of the fairies are necessary for nature, they just pop up whenever nature exists (which is hopefully always).
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Lily goes where spring is and announces that it's spring, but this doesn't mean that it isn't spring if Lily doesn't show up. While Lily implies Spring, Spring does not imply Lily. On top of that, Lily does not cause Spring, but it's plausible that Spring "causes" Lily in a sense.
But from the 3 fairies manga that it isn't so. It is heavily implied that Spring won't arrive until Lily is there.
Lily's presence don't even necessarily imply Spring. We see her on PCB before Spring is returned to Gensokyo, and she's around during HM, that happened during Summer.
This is also true.
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Lily's presence don't even necessarily imply Spring. We see her on PCB before Spring is returned to Gensokyo,
However, it was already springtime by the beginning of PCB, so Lily went ahead to announce the time, regardless of the weather. She is more like a calendar rather than a weather vane, let alone the very cause of spring. Her appearance alone doesn't mean anything, as seen in HM. She wasn't announcing the spring in her usual flurry-of-danmaku way.
Then again, almost every single Windows era character who isn't playable is a part of the background, as if just to advertise the whole series, rather than having any real reason to be there.
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Then again, almost every single Windows era character who isn't playable is a part of the background, as if just to advertise the whole series, rather than having any real reason to be there.
Zun's very controlling on which characters appear and with whom they appear in the mangas. I doubt he just threw them in to "advertise the series".
At any rate, the meta reason for her presence doesn't really matter. She was there, it's a canon game, and so it's canon that she appears outside of spring.
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ZUN wasn't working on HM alone. There are at least a few things that go against the canon in that game, such as the ability to select the stage of Palanquin Ship or the Temple of Myouren, despite the former becoming the latter after UFO. Another one would be the Chireiden stage, despite the fact that surface-dwelling youkai aren't allowed to enter the underground.
And while Lily did appear outside of her season, she didn't do it to announce the spring. Just to watch some fights.
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What I meant is that, if he's controlling like that in the manga (where he also isn't working alone, you know), I really don't see him not being so in one of the games, of all things.
The Myouren Temple can probably just turn back into the ship (the wiki says it can, although it doesn't give the source for that claim), and none of the youkai of the surface that canonically go underground during this game (as in, go there during their story modes) were originally from Gensokyo (in fact, Ichirin was living there before UFO), so I'd assume that the deal doesn't apply to them. Alternatively, no one down there cares about this rule anymore ever since the events of SA (consider that underground youkai were also forbidden from going to the surface, yet Orin does so regularly now, and Yamame did it at least once, to visit the Myouren Temple).
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The Myouren Temple can probably just turn back into the ship (the wiki says it can, although it doesn't give the source for that claim)
The Palanquin Ship is an MCV! Somehow I want to see some Touhou modded C&C RTS. I figured that the agreement between the surface and underground was no longer in effect at least after SA. But when you come to think of it, even Patchouli is not originally from Gensokyo, and yet, she couldn't go down there to assist Marisa directly. Or she thought she couldn't go there. Aya also moved to Gensokyo, but that was long before the barrier.
I just don't see what logical reason would bring Yuugi to Human Village or Yuuka and Medicine to the Hall of Dreams Mausoleum. In any case, to set the topic back on track, no, I don't think the fairies should be the ones painting the leaves in autumn.
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Wait...I thought HM was in spring?
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It was released in spring, but apparently takes place in summer.
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I just don't see what logical reason would bring Yuugi to Human Village or Yuuka and Medicine to the Hall of Dreams Mausoleum.
Suika must've said some good stuff about the alcohol of the surface, I bet.
Yuuka and Medicine, I agree with you. No clue what the hell they're doing there. Out for a stroll, maybe. I can't even tell where the thing is supposed to be; it doesn't look like it's underground, but where else would it be?
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Wiki says "under Myouren Temple graveyard", but it looks like it has its own sky. That wouldn't be as surprising, considering the snow falling in Ancient City in SA.
Besides, I highly doubt that the humans in the village would have better sake than the oni.
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Suika must've said some good stuff about the alcohol of the surface, I bet.
Yuuka and Medicine, I agree with you. No clue what the hell they're doing there. Out for a stroll, maybe. I can't even tell where the thing is supposed to be; it doesn't look like it's underground, but where else would it be?
Yuugi talks to Marisa about why she's in the village in Marisa's ending. Basically the village is too riled up by the events of the game to notice an oni walking around. She's just there to watch.
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Yuugi talks to Marisa about why she's in the village in Marisa's ending. Basically the village is too riled up by the events of the game to notice an oni walking around. She's just there to watch.
Oh, so that's what she was saying in the ending. I forgot to check the translaions for them. Thanks.
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Every background character is there to watch. But I can't shake the thought that some of them feel slightly out of place.
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People do inexplicable things all the time. I went to the library yesterday, just cuz I could. It happens. There doesn't need to be a good or logical reason to go someplace.
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Well, at least the fact that Yuugi has an actual storyline role (even if a small one) shows that some thought was put into her background appearance, as well as an acknowledgement that her appearance is canon. The fact that Yuugi's background appearance is confirmed to be meant to be an actual canon storyline appearance would imply it's the same for the other characters, too, I think. And pooooossibly maybe slightly imply on a lesser amount that it's the same for the stages (Mainly applicable for the Myouren/Palanquin Ship thing).
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It's a festival. That's... basically the entire explanation.
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Well, at least the fact that Yuugi has an actual storyline role (even if a small one) shows that some thought was put into her background appearance, as well as an acknowledgement that her appearance is canon.
Probably related to her appearance in Wild and Horned Hermit.
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Does anyone know where ZUN gets the patterns he uses in the spell card backgrounds, STG Frames, cover art, etc.? Or does he make them himself?
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They're basically all from specialized texture packs for professional use. They're expensive.
Example:
(http://i.imgur.com/IbHMbf2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/496Se3n.png)
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However, it was already springtime by the beginning of PCB, so Lily went ahead to announce the time, regardless of the weather. She is more like a calendar rather than a weather vane, let alone the very cause of spring.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Lily White fairly close to the Netherworld?
What I am saying is not that Lily White only appears in spring time. What I mean is that Lily White's presence is what causes spring. So, I am saying that if Lily White doesn't pass this specific area, Spring never comes to this area. This was heavily implied in the 3 fairies manga.
ZUN wasn't working on HM alone. There are at least a few things that go against the canon in that game, such as the ability to select the stage of Palanquin Ship or the Temple of Myouren, despite the former becoming the latter after UFO. Another one would be the Chireiden stage, despite the fact that surface-dwelling youkai aren't allowed to enter the underground.
I agree with Sagus on this. Even if he doesn't work alone, he does make sure that character appearances are logical.
Random appearances of characters in places happen, because well, characters move around. It should not be surprising.
One example is Flandre. I don't believe you ever see her appearance outside the Scarlet Devil Mansion. Unlike other random characters like Rumia, Yuuka, etc. that show up in various places.
I just don't see what logical reason would bring Yuugi to Human Village or Yuuka and Medicine to the Hall of Dreams Mausoleum. In any case, to set the topic back on track, no, I don't think the fairies should be the ones painting the leaves in autumn.
As for Yuuka and Medicine, why can't they be in the Hall of Dreams Mausoleum, any specific reason why they are banned from going to places?
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The Mausoleum is interestingly the gathering place for the "faction-less" characters. It's almost like a dump when the devs can't think of anywhere else to put them :V
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Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Lily White fairly close to the Netherworld?
What I am saying is not that Lily White only appears in spring time. What I mean is that Lily White's presence is what causes spring. So, I am saying that if Lily White doesn't pass this specific area, Spring never comes to this area. This was heavily implied in the 3 fairies manga.
She was still outside of Netherworld, but I don't know what does that have to do with the fact that she announces spring when the time comes. I haven't really read the whole 3 fairies manga, so I can't really argue with you about it.
I agree with Sagus on this. Even if he doesn't work alone, he does make sure that character appearances are logical.
Random appearances of characters in places happen, because well, characters move around. It should not be surprising.
One example is Flandre. I don't believe you ever see her appearance outside the Scarlet Devil Mansion. Unlike other random characters like Rumia, Yuuka, etc. that show up in various places.
I just wonder what makes all of you people so sure ZUN keeps perfect track of every single detail about his characters when he's under the pressure of a deadline and the key point is to make the playable characters to be working properly before the release date. It's much easier to keep track of what one or two manga artists draw than what a whole team of developers decide to put into a game. The background characters are there just as a decoration, and in some cases the stages they appear at don't quite fit with them, even when it's a festival. Sure, the audience is important in the game, corresponding with the popularity meter, but some characters feel like they were just randomly put to a random place just for the sake of being there. Yuuka and Medicine are both pretty introverted and rarely ever move away from their area of activity or care about anyone but themselves. As TrueShadow put it, it's like they were just dumped there.
Oh, and Fladre did appear outside her mansion in BAiJR and Aya interviewed her, but that's the only occasion I know of.
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I think characters being in the crowd is a non-issue. Random folks check out new stuff for no 'logical' reason, film at 11.
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Well then allow me to update my list of questions for ZUN...
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Speaking of which, some questions are due for a few stages themselves, namely Treasure Ship and Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum. For the former, it's whether it's the same thing as Myouren Temple (I'd rather believe it's something created from Soaring Vault's fragments). For the latter, it's where it's actually located now (no way in Higan am I believing that an underground cave can have a bright sky-like background and a huge lake with vegetation, over it just being moved to the surface). Those are just my theories, though, and I'd rather wait for some kind of an interview purely about HM.
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I noticed this on the wiki article for Celestials:
According to Komachi Onozuka, celestials are not truly immortal. Instead, they manage to defeat the shinigami that comes to collect their souls on a routine basis, continually extending their lifespan.
If Shinigami, supposedly, don't collect souls of the dead and are just responsible for ferrying them across the Sanzu, what's this about? I wasn't able to find a source for this (the quoted) statement, and that has me double-wondering as to its accuracy. Especially since Komachi is the one from whom we heard that Shinigami don't collect souls!
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The source of that statement is Komachi's SWR story, namely her dialogue with Tenshi. Note that WaHH didn't exist back then.
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Also note that in WAHH she says that they normally lie about it.
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She was still outside of Netherworld, but I don't know what does that have to do with the fact that she announces spring when the time comes. I haven't really read the whole 3 fairies manga, so I can't really argue with you about it.
In either case, if you want the reference, here is the link. Chapter 7 starts the series about Spring and ends in Chapter 8. So, you only really need 2 chapters.
http://www.mangago.com/read-manga/touhou_sangetsusei_strange_and_bright_nature/tr/86004/page/129/
I just wonder what makes all of you people so sure ZUN keeps perfect track of every single detail about his characters when he's under the pressure of a deadline and the key point is to make the playable characters to be working properly before the release date.
What do you mean by this? It is just more likely that Zun would keep track. He has meetings with Tasofro plenty often during the production of the game.
How are you so sure that those characters are nonsensical in their appearance? Why assume so?
Yuuka and Medicine are both pretty introverted and rarely ever move away from their area of activity or care about anyone but themselves. As TrueShadow put it, it's like they were just dumped there.
Why and how did Yuuka appear in Wild and Horned Hermit, if you were to assume she never moves?
http://www.mangago.com/read-manga/touhou_ibarakasen_wild_and_horned_hermit/mf/v04/c016/7/
Oh, and Fladre did appear outside her mansion in BAiJR and Aya interviewed her, but that's the only occasion I know of.
How would you know that Flandre appears outside of the Scarlet Devil mansion during the interview? Is there anything during that interview that somehow hints that?
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Small miscellaneous. Yuuka visits the flower shop in the human village and Reimu's shrine in her PoFV ending. Perfect Memento says she doesn't leave her sunflower field very much, but it dosen't say she NEVER leaves it.
Flandre is outside the Scarlet Devil Mansion in the accompanying artwork to that BAiJR interview (though still on mansion grounds).
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- Any picture(s) of a real 3d Yin-Yang Orb (can be crystal, etc.) out there on the internet?
I can't find a proper real one that has the have appearance like the one in the game. The only I can find are flat one and no spherical in shape.
Oh the white part does not necessarily have to be white in color, it can be transparent.
How many bands are there out there in Gensokyo now (3-4) and what their genre? I think for the Prismriver Sisters its rock or something like that.
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How many bands are there out there in Gensokyo now (3-4) and what their genre? I think for the Prismriver Sisters its rock or something like that.
There are only two groups that could be described as "music bands" as of now - Primsriver sisters and Kyouko/Mystia, though it's unknown if the latter is a regular thing. The genre is given only in the latter case, which is "punk".
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So far, all I've seen is this of Kobito of the Shining Needle Castle, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwXSpyyf2wg) and Desire Drive. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnR6Z2pX1pM)
I was wondering if there was any more music from Touhou post-PC-98 that was remixed to sound as if it were PC-98 :3
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BUDTv_EhHw The Gensokyo the Gods Loved
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqPT7bycS6g Grave of Being
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiC9gD0k1dQ Far Side of the Moon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTCkrE0bGKA Sunny Rutile Flection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqm_kU4M9WU Native Faith
And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfIZI4wBACI Hartmann's Youkai Girl
There might be more, but these ones I thought of instantly.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgkehYFrcho Satori Maiden ~ 3rd Eye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0RKWrCzEKU U.N. Owen Was Her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-DqeZJYuiU Faith is for the Transient People
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVUMFM4vBB4 Border of Life
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I'll try to describe it as much as I can. I found it originally on youtube and it was deleted. (should have saved the song I know)
The name was something along the lines of "Witches ball" and it had a picture of remilia scarlet. I've looked all over youtube for hours and I can't find it. it isn't the original song, it's some different arrangement.
The song has some slow ominous piano in the beginning, followed by deep cello and church bells. The ending is a creepy rendition of twinkle twinkle little star. It isn't a fast techno song, it's purely slow and instrumental
Help is appreciated!
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- Any picture(s) of a real 3d Yin-Yang Orb (can be crystal, etc.) out there on the internet?
I can't find a proper real one that has the have appearance like the one in the game. The only I can find are flat one and no spherical in shape.
Oh the white part does not necessarily have to be white in color, it can be transparent.
It sounds like, you're looking for a generalization of the yin-yang into 3 dimensions. I have yet to come across one, but I've thought about it. What I see a lot of the time is just a graphic pasted onto a sphere and that just isn't what I'm looking for. I imagine there have been a lot of moments where someone set out to make a 3d yin yang and realized this just isn't that easy.
So I went on a wild picture search which led to some interesting finds. I'll share them now starting with the simplest.
This one was what I set out to find (although very small). I've seen this picture so often I now wonder, has this animation been rendered multiple times or are they all just copies of the original gif file. I want to meet the guy who made this gif. I don't think the yin yang orb looks like this but it's pretty cool. (http://i.imgur.com/SmNU2Mj.gif)
Then I found this higher order version with 3 parts instead of 2. Very cool. I would be very happy with this interpretation of the yin yang orb. (http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/576/093/4cc.gif)
Still both of these are so mechanical, they don't quite fit the bill for me.
This page (http://www.mi.sanu.ac.rs/vismath/sequin1/index.html) has some interesting ideas and yielded the best return on my time investment (that's an obnoxious texture, btw. I might try to remake this since it is really cool) (http://www.mi.sanu.ac.rs/vismath/sequin1/yinyang2.JPG).
This page (http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6224) has a poorly drawn wire frame that looks yin yang ish (http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4002/yinyang.png). I'm still working on it. I'm also loving the new age vibe I'm getting from this site, somewhere around when I read "This next picture is a graphical representation of the spheres mirroring to become the 108 as Justin discusses. It also show the Phi symbol. Coincidence? I think not.".
I like this subject. I think I want to write more on it. I've got a personal interpretation that I like as well.
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I feel like a baseball design would work pretty well.
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I feel like a baseball design would work pretty well.
Until you look at it from the wrong angle. Then it just stops being what you want. That's like saying this foundational concept of yin and yang is subject to our opinions and a simple rotation of 90 degrees reveals the universe is actually just yang.
Something tells me this really isn't the kind of question that should be asked in this thread, mainly because it's so opinion based.
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Until you look at it from the wrong angle. Then it just stops being what you want.
In a sense. Technically the surface of the ball is still half yin and half yang. Perhaps the eyes are not the appropriate tools for appreciating a three dimensional object of such significance!
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So I need to write a biography of someone in the career path I want. So, me being me, I chose ZUN. So far the only good English sources I've found are touhou wiki and wiki wiki. So now I ask you wonderful people if you know of any other good sources of information on ZUN short of the man himself, preferably in english though I can do japanese.
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I hope you don't mind if I ask another questions b4 someone answer those Chocolate. Please don't use Koishi power on me.
Something I haven't quite understand about Sakuya.
- Have it been stated that she can actually reverse the flow of time OR just been heavily implied that she can do it (although very difficult it may seems to be)?
- Also for that matter can we really say that she does stop time or just decelerate to such pt that time itself practically stand still? (srry if I have offence any scientist here with my non-sense)
- Did Alice ever use her grimoire in the PC-98 game?
- And finally any particular idea why Momiji is scene in so much doujinshi with Aya and befriend with her while acting like she her puppy?
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- Have it been stated that she can actually reverse the flow of time OR just been heavily implied that she can do it (although very difficult it may seems to be)?
- Also for that matter can we really say that she does stop time or just decelerate to such pt that time itself practically stand still? (srry if I have offence any scientist here with my non-sense)
- It's stated in PMiSS that she can do it, but only to the extent of moving things back to where they were before; "reversing" time can't, for instance, unbreak a broken cup or unburn a burnt house.
- It's explicitly stated that she stops time. I don't see the relevance in diferentiating one from the other, anyway. The effect would be the same, after all.
Isn't the power to stop time to such a degree can be consider in a sense like a godlike power. Even if her power is limited by various factors (range, duration, etc.) if she has the time in a duel to place all those knifes around you then imagine what can she do in a real fight! She could technically just cut your head without you even realizing you have been already game, isn't it lol. Well anyway, I can imagine that the powerful youkai and our honorable lazy shrine maiden most likely have a way to counter such power.
This would get us into powerlevel discussions, so we best not dwell on it.
- Did Alice ever use her grimoire in the PC-98 game?
Yes, when she was the Extra Boss in MS. Well, the book she was carrying is open there, anyway.
- And finally any particular idea why Momiji is scene in so much doujinshi with Aya and befriend with her while acting like she her puppy?
Her species has a canid's name in it, she's the midboss of Aya's stage, and she's said to be very dutiful. Also, it was only years after her debut that the fact that Aya and Momiji dislike each other was revealed.
Also, it's cute. You know how much this fandom loves moe stuff.
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- Did Alice ever use her grimoire in the PC-98 game?
Yes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFDXkbCGgb4) However, she has never used it in the Windows canon (at least, not explicitly). We only know it still exists because Marisa insists in the intro of "The Grimoire of Marisa" that she isn't copying Alice's grimoire, and it might not have the same properties. Sunny Milk did once mention something about "a magician with a grimoire that shines with seven colours of light", but in context she could be lying or misinformed.
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- It's stated in PMiSS that she can do it, but only to the extent of moving things back to where they were before; "reversing" time can't, for instance, unbreak a broken cup or unburn a burnt house.
The full quote is probably more helpful:
Reversing time only has an effect to the extent that things that have been moved return to their original position. Effectively, you can say there is no reversing time.
So we can just say there is no reversing time. A nice simple answer. Moving something to a previous position is indistinguishable from simply stopping time and picking it up manually, which is kind of what I assumed Akyuu was talking about anyway.
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I wish to know what song is this (https://soundcloud.com/idoknow-1/sample)(I'm pretty sure is has something to do with touhou),
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So we can just say there is no reversing time. A nice simple answer. Moving something to a previous position is indistinguishable from simply stopping time and picking it up manually, which is kind of what I assumed Akyuu was talking about anyway.
PMiSS seems to imply that all Sakuya can do while stopping time is move manually anyways, so it's easy to conclude that all she'd be doing is stopping time.
I wish to know what song is this (https://soundcloud.com/idoknow-1/sample)(I'm pretty sure is has something to do with touhou),
...Where did you get this from? If you're recording your speakers' audio or something then clearly you have some sense of a source. From that clip there's no way to distinguish a Touhou arrange in particular unless someone has heard it.
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So I need to write a biography of someone in the career path I want. So, me being me, I chose ZUN. So far the only good English sources I've found are touhou wiki and wiki wiki. So now I ask you wonderful people if you know of any other good sources of information on ZUN short of the man himself, preferably in english though I can do japanese.
For what it's worth, there's a bunch of subbed interviews with him on YT, though they may have already been transcribed. Short of that, there's new material happening this weekend that could form a good backdrop for the bio.
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For what it's worth, there's a bunch of subbed interviews with him on YT, though they may have already been transcribed. Short of that, there's new material happening this weekend that could form a good backdrop for the bio.
This I am really interested in. Thank you.
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It does not mean that she directly makes the wind blow and snow fall, but since she can enhance the winter that exists within nature, she can exhibit ridiculous powers which seem impossible for one youkai.
Aya: Wouldn't everyone be happy if you tried to stay active in summer and reduced the heat a little?
Letty: Oh, that's a good idea. Well, that's what I'd like to say, but I manipulate the cold. Don't confuse it with manipulating cold air like a certain fairy.
Aya: They sound similar to me...
Letty: Those fairies are just minor anomalies of nature. I, on the other hand, am a great youkai that lives in nature. When it's cold out, making it even colder is my greatest joy.
The "cold" vs. "cold air" thing is confusing. Is there another way those phrases could be translated? It sounds like the difference is "Cirno can create cold on a small scale, Letty can manipulate cold on a large scale but needs something to work with", so my guess would be "manipulating cold weather" vs. "creating frost"/"chilling the air".
あ、名案？ って言いたいところだけどぉ、私は寒さを操るの。冷気を操るどこぞの妖精なんかと一緒にされても困るわ
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Well the entire joke is that there doesn't seem to be any difference between "cold" and "cold air", even though Letty thinks hers is superior to Cirno's. That's why Aya follows it up with "They sound similar to me".
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It seems to me like Letty requires there to be some cold before her abilities work. Cirno doesn't have such a requirement and even in hot days, Cirno's ability will work fine, while Letty's won't. However, Letty's ability is definitely much much more powerful than Cirno's.
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- How can Yuyoko still retain a human shape appearance beside being a ghost? Did she make some sort of deal with Yama (a bit the Hieda family) or has it been said in the game how she can do it?
Does Yuyoko know that her human soul was used to seal the Saigyou Ayakashi, now in the current timeline?
- Is Marisa goal to become a full magician (like Alice or Patchouli) or does she plan to die like a regular human (old age)? Or Maybe both why not, if after all its Marisa we talking about:)
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- Bourei are described in PMiSS to take the form they had while alive. All bourei we've seen take their human form. Tojiko just has ghost legs.
- It isn't said that she knows, but it's fairly possible that she realized it after the events of PCB.
- Marisa's goals aren't exactly solid. Usually she expresses that she wants to live a long-ish time and she gets temporarily attracted to "secrets" of long life; a lot of her character revolves around how short a human's lifespan is. She's against immortality, though.
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She's against immortality, though.
I'd say she's against the drawbacks of immortality. Marisa is a free spirit. Becoming a youkai magician means, well, becoming a youkai (who don't think the same way as humans), and she's not really cut out for becoming a hermit. If there was a way to become immortal which didn't interfere with how she lives her life (and didn't require eating someone's liver), she'd be all over it.
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Does Yuyoko know that her human soul was used to seal the Saigyou Ayakashi, now in the current timeline?
Well, the fact that her soul seals the Saigyou Ayakashi is stated in the latest version of the Gensokyo Chronicles (Perfect Memento. Possibly it was in earlier versions too but who knows?). Given that the Gensokyo Chronicles are available to the public, Yuyuko would have to be pretty dense in order to have not found out that she's sealing the Saigyou Ayakashi by now.
.....on the flip side, Yuyuko can be pretty dense sometimes.
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At which instance is Yuyuko being dense...?
Given how perceptive she's shown herself to be, it would be very weird if she haven't realized the fact about the Saigyou Ayakashi.
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Well, one major problem is it's hard to tell if she's being serious or not, but there are several times in A Flower Blooming Violet and IaMP where Yukari's basically like "You know this already" and Yuyuko basically replies "Know what?"
Although again, it's hard to tell if Yuyuko's being serious or just trolling Yukari whenever she does it.
My own theory is that Yuyuko's incredibly perceptive but only when she actually cares about something. Which, given her fickle personality and low (and sometimes seemingly random) attention span (she says she stopped caring about that body sealing the tree "just because." in one/some of PCB's endings, if I recall correctly) means that she can be really hit-or-miss on a lot of things. Yukari knows she's incredibly perceptive and thus assumes Yuyuko already knows lots of things, but Yuyuko's fickle personality and low (and random) attention span dooms even Yukari's assumption to be hit-or-miss, as well. Well, that's how I see it.
Though again, with the tree being public knowledge, she probably knows about it. I wouldn't be surprised if she randomly forgot and re-remembered it from time to time, though, given her personality. Though truthfully this memory/attention-span problem seems to apply to several old youkai. Remilia and to some extent, Yukari and Rinnosuke, seem to exhibit it as well. It's hard to tell if Remilia's trolling too sometimes, but we get to see things from Rinnosuke and Yukari's perspectives and honestly, their memories are kinda wonky sometimes.
....now I wish we got to see a narrative written from Yuyuko's point of view.
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Perfect Memento. Possibly it was in earlier versions too but who knows?.
Probably not, considering that, before the events of PCB, the only way that someone from Gensokyo could meet Yuyuko is if they died and were sent to the Netherworld.
....now I wish we got to see a narrative written from Yuyuko's point of view.
it'd be nothing but food metaphors
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Probably not, considering that, before the events of PCB, the only way that someone from Gensokyo could meet Yuyuko is if they died and were sent to the Netherworld.
Is that true? since the creation of Gensokyo, PCB is the first time that anything happens in the afterlife? I find that very hard to believe. Could it be that Reimu, and other characters knew Yuyuko existed before PCB, but just didn't talk about her?
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Considering that Yuyuko had to open a pathway between the Netherworld and Gensokyo herself, considering that none of the protagonists shows any familiarity whatsoever with her or Youmu in PCB, and considering that Akyuu herself stated that it was only recently that a hole between the two places opened, yeah, I think it's very safe to say that, other than Yukari and other ghosts, no one from Gensokyo had any contact with the Netherworld before PCB.
It's not the first event that affects the afterlife, no; the Ghost Emigration Project happened after the Hakurei Border's creation, for instance. But its effects were worldwide. I see absolutely no reason for why Yuyuko would've interacted with Gensokyo before the events of PCB.
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it'd be nothing but food metaphors
I wouldn't say just food metaphors, I would say metaphors in general.
Is that true? since the creation of Gensokyo, PCB is the first time that anything happens in the afterlife? I find that very hard to believe. Could it be that Reimu, and other characters knew Yuyuko existed before PCB, but just didn't talk about her?
As Sagus has mentioned, yes, that is most likely the case. None of the characters, barring Yukari, Akyuu, Komachi, and a few others, would have interacted with Yuyuko prior to the events of PCB. I think Youmu may have interacted with the human world from time to time prior to the events of Perfect Cherry Blossom, but I am unsure of this.
That said, even after the events of PCB, it is not easy to reach the Netherworld and there are very few people who go there. The only ones that go there are the Touhou characters and not regularly. Yuyuko also rarely visits the human world even after the events of PCB.
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Did Shinki burn down all of Makai to get at Reimu? Since I think there's no dialogue that confirms or denies this, I've always assumed it to be a fan theory. It's my guess also, but do we know?
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No. Where do you even get that idea.
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the background changing as the fight goes on
yeah
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Any idea how large is the Hakurei Shrine?
Could Marisa had already started living on her own before the events of the PC-98 games?
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Any idea how large is the Hakurei Shrine?
The main building doesn't seem to be that big, and as far as can tell it combines the oratory and the place where the god is enshrined for some reason, but it's grounds keep getting larger every time Zun wants to add something in it. It has a pound somewhere in the back (if we can take his answer to the "where's Genji" question seriously), a storage, a Moriya branch shrine, and at least one tree garden.
Could Marisa had already started living on her own before the events of the PC-98 games?
Maybe? She was already using magic, after all. But there's no indication for or against it, and it's PC-98, so... I mean, I doubt Zun had already thought about Marisa's backstory back then.
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No. Where do you even get that idea.
To be honest, I'm not sure where I first heard the statement, but the logic was that from the nasty red glow and the background change, it seemed as if Makai was on fire or somehow being destroyed near the end of the fight. The Touhou Wiki also labels that picture as "Makai on fire." This could also be intepreted as "Shinki damaged the battlefield" rather than something so extreme. Granted, she could just recreate Makai later, so I'm not sure whether she does or doesn't has any impact on the long-term state of things.
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Anyone knows the touhou song that was played at 18:22?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JtspM-hlXc
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It's an arrange of Luna Dial from M?gico Cat?strofe by Shibayan Records. Vocals by Ranco.
(I was on a wild goose chase for half an hour trying to remember where it was from because the only thing I listen to from Ranco anymore are Sally's albums. At some point I was like "wait duh this isn't rock")
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Yukari's 'Danmaku Barrier'.
Did the concept come from some other game, or is ZUN the first person to make this kind of pattern?
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It really depends what you mean. He definitely didn't invent the concept of bullets surrounding the player and closing in, and he definitely didn't invent the concept of puzzle STG. He even made Maze of Love before this.
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On a similar note, does anyone know the arrange that plays here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4JtspM-hlXc#t=1212 ? I fear this clip may be too short for anyone to recognize.
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It really depends what you mean. He definitely didn't invent the concept of bullets surrounding the player and closing in, and he definitely didn't invent the concept of puzzle STG. He even made Maze of Love before this.
I was asking about the 'bullets surrounding the player and closing in all at the same time thing'.
Which game had it?
EDIT : Something close enough to say that "Yukari's 'Danmaku Barrier' is definitely inspired by this."
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What does the character on the amulet bullets mean?
If it is even recognizable of course.
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On a similar note, does anyone know the arrange that plays here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4JtspM-hlXc#t=1212 ? I fear this clip may be too short for anyone to recognize.
It's the one at 20:12, right? That's Empress of Dolls by cYsmix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1VB7G-znY).
I'm not sure which one you're talking about, since the link keeps on sending me to a different spot in the video from 18-20 minutes each time.
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It's the one at 20:12, right? That's Empress of Dolls by cYsmix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1VB7G-znY).
I'm not sure which one you're talking about, since the link keeps on sending me to a different spot in the video from 18-20 minutes each time.
Yeah that's the one, don't know what's up with the link, it's doing weird things for me now too. Thanks!
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Is there any info how big (I mean more particularly how tall) can Suika become when she uses her power? about 50m?
Also where did Hata no Kokoro live now?
Does Mekai lies inside Gensokyo territory and does anyone know whether Shinki also gains her power from faith?
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Is there any info how big (I mean more particularly how tall) can Suika become when she uses her power? about 50m?
As far as we know she has no limit. As in, it was never stated how tall she can make herself be.
Also where did Hata no Kokoro live now?
Good question. She trained in the Myouren Temple for a while in HM but I dunno if she's still living there.
Does Mekai lies inside Gensokyo territory and does anyone know whether Shinki also gains her power from faith?
Makai is another dimension, unrelated to Gensokyo. Shinki was introduced before the concept of "gods need faith to exist" was estabilished for Touhou canon, and she hasn't even been mentioned since MS, so we don't know if she gains power from faith.
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Do we know how the Myouren crew ended up in former hell, how long they were sealed there and what they could even do down there? Why was Nue sealed along with Ichirin/Unzan, Murasa and Shou if she had no relation to them? And was Nazrin also sealed?
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Do we know how the Myouren crew ended up in former hell
Nope. At most we have this line from Murasa's profile: "Byakuren, the youkai saviour, had been captured and sealed by humans. At the same time, anything related to Byakuren was buried deep beneath the earth. Murasa, too, had been buried deep beneath the earth with the Tobikura." We know Ichirin and Unzan were sent down there too because Ichirin recalls the Underground as a place of their shame in HM.
how long they were sealed there
Same length of time as Byakuren was sealed in Makai, I'd assume; around a thousand years or more.
and what they could even do down there?
Who knows, it's never stated.
Why was Nue sealed along with Ichirin/Unzan, Murasa and Shou if she had no relation to them?
Nue wasn't sealed. She was just coincidentally taking a vacation in the place where that the Myouren crew was sealed, and got accidentally involved with the incident (from her profile: "She just enjoyed watching humans get frightened and imagine all sorts of strange things from afar. That was her daily work. Eventually she got tired of that and leisurely spent a long time deep beneath the earth's surface, but she got mixed up in the turmoil surrounding the geyser incident and appeared above ground once more").
By the way, Shou was never sealed either; humans never noticed that she was a youkai. As her profile puts it: "When Byakuren was sealed away, she was completely focused on carrying out her duties as Bishamonten. She kept the fact that she was a youkai a secret from humans. She had her regrets about this, but it would have been self-destructive to reveal her true identity". Where she was living before the events of UFO, I don't know.
And was Nazrin also sealed?
Shou wasn't, so it's likely that she wasn't either.
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Good question. She trained in the Myouren Temple for a while in HM but I dunno if she's still living there.
As of the final ending of HM she was staying with the Hakurei shrine. But the ending itself said that she would leave eventually.
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Also where did Hata no Kokoro live now?
What Clarste said. The last place she was seen at was the Hakurei shrine. But it is unknown where she would be afterwards.
I would assume the Hakurei shrine currently, until she leaves.
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Something I don't quite understand about the Vampire Incident.
- Has been stated/confirmed (not implied...) whether Remilia was involved or not in this incident?
If not, anyone knows whether someone may have asked ZUN about that matter during the AWA event?
Thanks for answering in advance.
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Something I don't quite understand about the Vampire Incident.
- Has been stated/confirmed (not implied...) whether Remilia was involved or not in this incident?
She is the vampire, yes. There's really no question about this at all; the main reason the western fandom don't totally acknowledge this is that a previous shoddy translation of Reimu's PMiSS page implied that it could have been any random vampire, and for whatever reason it was a common thing to just reject Remilia being the vampire offhand. It spread absurdly far before being caught and nailed down properly, so the Vampire Incident is unfortunately still a source of confusion for many.
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She is the vampire, yes. There's really no question about this at all; the main reason the western fandom don't totally acknowledge this is that a previous shoddy translation of Reimu's PMiSS page implied that it could have been any random vampire, and for whatever reason it was a common thing to just reject Remilia being the vampire offhand. It spread absurdly far before being caught and nailed down properly, so the Vampire Incident is unfortunately still a source of confusion for many.
Then I think it may be appropriate that someone knowledgeable about that matter (and who has free time + an wiki account) change the section of touhou wiki concerning Remilia accordingly cause I find still a bit confusing for some part.
Also Clarste, (although I don't find it appropriate for me to say that) but still if you could please tell me that the translation chapter 18 of WoHH is at least nearly finish. :ohdear:
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The original Japanese text about vampire incident is vague enough to allow for various fanon interpretations in Japan. For example, there's a fanon where Remilia was the only one who signed the contract, and by its demand she killed off all other invading vampires.
I've carefully pored through all the related parts in PMiSS before, and one thing still bugs me: it says the SDM became notorious after the scarlet mist incident, suggesting it was unknown before. This can be construed as a very strong hint for Remilia being not involved in vampire incident. Of course it's easy to come up with several ways around that. I prefer to think SDM was only moved into Gensokyo after vampire incident.
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The original Japanese text about vampire incident is vague enough to allow for various fanon interpretations in Japan. For example, there's a fanon where Remilia was the only one who signed the contract, and by its demand she killed off all other invading vampires.
I've carefully pored through all the related parts in PMiSS before, and one thing still bugs me: it says the SDM became notorious after the scarlet mist incident, suggesting it was unknown before. This can be construed as a very strong hint for Remilia being not involved in vampire incident. Of course it's easy to come up with several ways around that. I prefer to think SDM was only moved into Gensokyo after vampire incident.
It's stated that the SDM was unknown by "humans". At least, in the translation at the endings wiki (er, or whereever it's stated). One of Aya's news articles in BAiJR, however, has the prism river sisters hold a concert at the SDM, and the article is dated several years BEFORE EoSD, which pretty much proves that youkai knew about the SDM (and that the SDM existed) quite a bit before EoSD.
PMiSS never specifically directly says that Vampire is Remilia. However, it does say in Remilia's section, "When one refers to vampire in Gensokyo, they must be talking about the Scarlet Sisters." It'd be pretty stupid of Akyuu to say "When one says Vampire, one means Remilia" in one section, and then say "Vampire" without meaning Remilia in another section. IMHO that's explicit enough, but no, it's not directly stating or confirming (in some interpretations) it, technically.
Some people might argue that if Akyuu really did mean Remilia for the Vampire Incident, she would have mentioned Remilia's name at least once in that article. However, apparently not mentioning Remilia by name is accepted Gensokyo culture. Even Sakyua's section in PMiSS only refers to Remilia as "the vampire". And in the entire rest of the Touhou series, no one ever refers to Remilia by name either, always referring to her as "the vampire" in most cases, and "mistress" in the case of SDM residents. The only times people have ever referred to Remilia as "Remilia" instead of "the vampire" or "mistress" come from official sources before PMiSS (far as I can tell. Yes, I did pay a lot of attention to whether or not anyone called Remilia "Remilia" in anything, and... no one ever does, after PMiSS. Except maybe Patchy but she wouldn't call Remilia "Mistress" or "The Vampire" for obvious reasons). For whatever reason, with PMiSS, ZUN decided that it'd be an in-story cultural thing for everyone to never refer to Remilia by name, so in that regards, Akyuu not bothering to refer to Remilia by name in the Vampire Incident description makes sense.
As an aside, the Japanese wiki doesn't have text-by-text transcriptions of official works like the English wiki does (from what I can tell). So I tend to personally take Japanese fandom with a grain of salt when trying to see if it implies what's canon and what's not. Still, it is true that PMiSS never explicitly states that the vampire is Remilia. In my opinion, saying "When one refers to vampires in Gensokyo, one must be referring to the scarlet sisters" is pretty much just one inch short of directly naming Remilia anyways, but others' mileage may differ. Hilariously enough, I woudln't be surprised if the English fandom had a better grasp of both Touhou canon and "what's likely Touhou canon that ZUN doesn't explicitly say because he stated he keeps some facts to himself or close friends" due to this. Most Japanese wouldn't have access to the direct text that does things like show no one calls Remilia "Remilia" or the date of that BAiJR article (though they might be able to put two and two together if that Japanese timeline had the article in it. That'd take quite a bit of sleuth work, though).
As an aside, someone did finally get around to making a doujinshi of te vampire incident with Remilia as the vampire, showing that at least some Japanese fans feel that she is (of course, the youkai that seems set to stop her is Yukari). The thing wasn't completed though..... I think.
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そんな幻想郷に突如外の世界から力のある妖怪、吸血鬼が現れ 、あっという間に多くの妖怪達を部下にしてしまった。
(a powerful youkai from the outside, a vampire, appeared)
結局この騒動は、最も力のある妖怪が力業で吸血鬼を叩きのめし、様々な禁止事項を決めた契約を結び、和解した。
(beat up the vampire, and settled the matter by settling a contract arranging various prohibitions)
[...]
一番最初にそのスペルカードルールを使って異変を起こしたのか、大騒ぎした吸血鬼が起こした紅霧異変だと言われている。
(It is said that the first time those spell card rules were used in an incident was during the Scarlet Mist Incident caused by that rambunctious vampire.)
seems pretty explicit to me tbh
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To summarize the answer to the original question: it is clearly the intention of PMiSS to suggest SDM as the only vampire invaders. However, the text of PMiSS has left out enough room that if someone wants to bend the words and imagine there are other vampires, they can.
What follows is less relevant hairsplitting:
This can be construed as a very strong hint for Remilia being not involved in vampire incident.
I meant, "not the sole instigator of vampire incident", i.e. there were several invading vampires, and SDM only became the vampire after the scarlet mist incident.
そんな幻想郷に突如外の世界から力のある妖怪、吸血鬼が現れ 、あっという間に多くの妖怪達を部下にしてしまった。
(a powerful youkai from the outside, a vampire, appeared)
一番最初にそのスペルカードルールを使って異変を起こしたのか、大騒ぎした吸血鬼が起こした紅霧異変だと言われている。
(It is said that the first time those spell card rules were used in an incident was during the Scarlet Mist Incident caused by that rambunctious vampire.)
It is possible to read the "vampire" here as referring to the species, not any particular person.
When read that way:(powerful youkai from the outside world, the vampires, appeared)
(...the Scarlet Mist Incident started by a vampire which caused the earlier uproar.)
In this reading, Akyuu is treating the vampire species as a whole, and in the second sentence, the emphasis is on that the instigator of Scarlet Mist incident belongs to the newcomer vampire species, rather than some long-time resident youkai. This reading stands either way, whether there are other vampires or not.
(Smart observations)
All good points!
Hilariously enough, I woudln't be surprised if the English fandom had a better grasp of both Touhou canon and "what's likely Touhou canon that ZUN doesn't explicitly say because he stated he keeps some facts to himself or close friends" due to this.
It's true that due to necessary evils that violate either ZUN's guidelines or copyright laws, including the English wiki, foreign fans have significantly easier access than Japanese fans to many things (not limited to Touhou canon), especially wrt out-of-print materials like PC-98 games or old doujin. This is a distinction worth remembering.
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I'd just like to point out that there are TWO known vampires in Gensokyo.
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There's actually three; Flan, Charisma-Break and Kurumi. :P
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Kurumi's lake of blood is most likely the blood pool of former hell (one chapter in OSP; Koishi's HM vs. dialogue; the Hell of Blood Pool is a real thing from Buddhist lore). In that case, she technically doesn't live in Gensokyo.
What does the character on the amulet bullets mean?
If it is even recognizable of course.
It's not anything recognizable.
Speaking of which, some questions are due for a few stages themselves, namely Treasure Ship and Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum. For the former, it's whether it's the same thing as Myouren Temple (I'd rather believe it's something created from Soaring Vault's fragments). For the latter, it's where it's actually located now (no way in Higan am I believing that an underground cave can have a bright sky-like background and a huge lake with vegetation, over it just being moved to the surface). Those are just my theories, though, and I'd rather wait for some kind of an interview purely about HM.
People I know generally assume the Hall of Dreams has been moved to Senkai, as the stage appears very otherworldly. This would also explain Letty's presence.
As for the ship, the story progression in Nitori's story and Ichirin's line "why did you resort to such violence at the temple" seem to suggest the ship is separate from the temple. It's also suspicious that the stage is called "Treasure Ship Above Clouds", not "Palanquin Ship".
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Yea, the fact that there are TWO vampires, and that Remilia's section says "If one refers to vampires that are known to exist in Gensokyo, they must be the Scarlet family living in the Scarlet Devil Mansion." instead of just saying "If one refers to a vampire, they must mean Remilia" or whatever means that any time the Vampire incident refers to vampires either as a species or as plural, it could (and IMHO, probably does, but that's just my opinion) mean both Remilia and Flandre, so there's no contradiction even in cases where it refers to the plural (far from it actually. We know, or at least, have good enough reason to believe, that Flandre came in with Remilia, so it'd be kinda odd if vampire wasn't used in the plural sense a few times. ...admittingly, that might conflict a bit with the fact that Flandre never left the house until after EoSD, although I guess it could vary depending on if Flandre just left the house, or left the house grounds. In the latter case, hanging around on house grounds would technically count, which when I think about it was kinda the case in that doujinshi.
But well, yea, it is just one small step short of directly saying it, so there is technically wriggle room in the wording to say that it could have been a different vampire, albeit only a very little amount in my opinion. Of course, in that case, there would be the question of what happened to the other vampires (and possibly their followers, since it said the vampire(s) gathered up a bunch for the incident). Remilia eliminating them sounds... harsh, lol.
I personally like the idea of it better as Remilia too, though, if only because it helps flesh out Remilia a bit more.
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Makai is another dimension, unrelated to Gensokyo. Shinki was introduced before the concept of "gods need faith to exist" was estabilished for Touhou canon, and she hasn't even been mentioned since MS, so we don't know if she gains power from faith.
Even if Shinki did need faith to exist, presumably as the only known god of Makai, Shinki has everything she needs from the demons there. If you go by ZUN's word that "PC98 is canon but later games trump," then Shinki has never been said *not* to exist, so she does, but all gods need faith, so she does.
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Is Shinki even the same class of god as the others? She seems like an entirely different "species" than Suwako and Kanako to me, what with her ability to create sentient life and all. I guess her conversation with Mima might imply she is, but I'm not sure Mima and her (as well as her definition of god compared to the eight million gods) were on the same page, either. Assuming I'm remembering the ending correctly, the way the conversation went, Shinki might not even know enough about the eight million gods to determine if she was the same type as them, and instead thought they were related simply because they were both referred to as "gods".
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Her ability to create an entire dimension does imply her to be something greater than the other gods we have seen, yeah. Since no being since then has show such power, and since she's PC-98, arguing what exactly applies to her or not using our current canon is pretty much impossible.
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I tend to think that she created Makai in the same sense that someone who plants a sapling "creates" a tree. It may have been a relatively mundane action, as far as magic things go.
IIRC, it's somewhat implied that she's actually kinda weak, as a few characters (at least Mima and Yuuka I think) make fun of her after beating her, etc. And there's the fact that she lost the fight in the first place, while having no apparent reason to hold back (no spellcard rules, no reason to oblige the heroine's request).
My personal impression is that the concept of "god" in her case is more or less just a title. She created Makai, so she's the "god" of it. Not much more meaning behind it than that, and certainly no implication of limitless power. Whether or not you want to retroactively apply the current definitions of what a god is is up to you I guess. I doubt that's what ZUN had in mind when he made her character though.
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One can always justifies her losing as "she didn't want to kill them for whatever reason" or "she didn't want to use her full power otherwise it'd destroy Makai completely". And the main characters make fun of everyone they beat. They're kind of asses like that.
I really don't see how creating a dimension filled with sentient beings (that are also explicitly stated to have also been created by her, so they didn't "evolve" naturally after Makai's creation) would be a "mundane" magic thing.
But, like most things from PC-98, the exact way Makai was created is not really discussed in canon, so one can interpret it as one wants.
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Totally no justification in canon, but I just settled on "Shinki would have annihilated everything had she really tried" because she's basically omnipotent in Makai. Also, Reimu is just some person, and I'm guessing Shinki doesn't want to kill her just because she had the balls to challenge Makai's god. Also I think Reimu is the one who canonically solves all the incidents, so we can basically discount Yuuka, Mima, and even Marisa, but I think all of them are very fine having enough bluster to make fun of Shinki even if she can wipe the floor with them if she really tries.
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Is there any indication how large the Scarlet library may be in the games?
Are the "rabbits" shown in "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" youkai rabbits or just normal rabbits?
I understand that the involvement of ZUN in that particular manga can be debatable but either way I still find them very cute personally.
Just to clarify something the entrance of Meki is located in a cave in the mountains near the Hakurei Shrine but the place "Mekai" itself lies in an entire different/separate dimension, isn't it?
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Is there any indication how large the Scarlet library may be in the games?
I think it's implied to be very huge because of Sakuya's time/space shenanigans, like the rest of the SDM.
Are the "rabbits" shown in "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" youkai rabbits or just normal rabbits?
I understand that the involvement of ZUN in that particular manga can be debatable but either way I still find them very cute personally.
Pretty sure all rabbits from Eientei are youkai, yes.
Just to clarify something the entrance of Meki is located in a cave in the mountains near the Hakurei Shrine but the place "Mekai" itself lies in an entire different/separate dimension, isn't it?
It's what the wiki (and presumably the manual, although I can't say for sure) says, although, in-game, the entrance looks a lot more like a hole in the sky to me.
But yeah, although there is an entrance to Makai in Gensokyo, Makai itself is an entirely different dimension.
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One can always justifies her losing as "she didn't want to kill them for whatever reason" or "she didn't want to use her full power otherwise it'd destroy Makai completely".
I don't think so. It doesn't make any sense that she wouldn't be able to stop the heroine without killing her. She can't just beat her up or something? And further, why listen to her demands after that (i.e. put a stop to the tourism)? Even if you want to say she would have done that anyway (as it seems she will in Reimu's scenario), why then pick a fight with Reimu only to feign defeat?
And I really don't see where this "Makai being destroyed" thing is coming from. That's just insaneballs.
sentient beings (that are also explicitly stated to have also been created by her, so they didn't "evolve" naturally after Makai's creation)
I am extremely opposed to this interpretation of what she says. I admit I can't read the original Japanese or anything, but I don't see why you would interpret the translation so literally. It's akin to concluding that Rika built the ghosts in SoEW because she claims to have made all the enemies there. To say that no person or thing of any kind has ever been created in Makai by any means other than Shinki snapping her fingers is ludicrous. As far as I'm aware, this whole thing comes from Shinki saying that Yumeko is her strongest creation. If you look at her dialogue with Mima:
Oh, pardon me.
I'm the one who created Makai.
I am the god of Makai.
So you see, Yumeko wasn't
a golem or anything, she was just a
normal inhabitant of Makai.
I would take that to mean that she did not fabricate Yumeko from thin air, but that since she created Makai, she just views everything that comes from it as her creation. And that's just so much less silly.
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I don't think so. It doesn't make any sense that she wouldn't be able to stop the heroine without killing her. She can't just beat her up or something? And further, why listen to her demands after that (i.e. put a stop to the tourism)? Even if you want to say she would have done that anyway (as it seems she will in Reimu's scenario), why then pick a fight with Reimu only to feign defeat?
Because everyone in this games is psychotic and likes fighting. She didn't kill them/bet them at once because she didn't want to. Done.
Note, I'm not saying this is what actually happened. I'm saying that if one can interpret it this way, if one wants to reconcile the "semi-omnipotent" Shinki image with the fact that she can lose a battle.
And I really don't see where this "Makai being destroyed" thing is coming from. That's just insaneballs.
As previously stated in this very thread, it's based on the fact that Makai in the background was in flames at the end of the battle against her. Although I dunno why you're bringing this up, considering that the hypothetical justification for Shinki not using her full power that I mentioned would be her wishing to not blow Makai up.
I am extremely opposed to this interpretation of what she says.
I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but I really don't care. It is, as you said, an interpretation. You disagree with it, I subscribe to it, but at the end of the day canon, specially PC-98, is vague enough to allow for neither of us to be definitely correct. That said...
I would take that to mean that she did not fabricate Yumeko from thin air, but that since she created Makai, she just views everything that comes from it as her creation. And that's just so much less silly.
Dude
are you really saying that having a god that can create beings from its own power is "ludicrous", but having one "plant" a dimension, waiting for it to evolve naturally to the point of it having sentient beings, and then suddenly revealing herself and saying "I'M YOUR GOD WORKSHIP ME" is "much less silly"? I'm sorry, to me is the other way around. Gods directly creating life and worlds and etc by themselves is the most common thing in mythologies.
That dialogue you quoted can simply be taken as "She isn't a simple construct, she's one of the sentient beings of Makai". Shinki is explicitly said to have created Makai and everything in it. How exactly is a sentient being from Makai exempt from that? I mean, she outrigt says to Reimu:
Out of everything I've created,
Yumeko was of the highest caliber...
You have to entirely ignore that to say that Shinki didn't directly create Yumeko. I mean, she's debating the strength of the things she made. If the only thing she did was kickstart Makai, what would she be gauging Yumeko's strength to?
I mean, sure, interpret things like that if you want, but don't jump on me saying that my interpretation is somehow wronger than yours because to you mine is "ludicrous", 'cause yours makes as little sense to me as mine does to you.
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Shinki to Yuuka: Are you making light of Makai? I'll have you know I made everything here.
Shinki: Out of everything I've created,
Yumeko was of the highest
caliber...
To have defeated her,
it's clear you're not just a
nobody.
Mima: That girl from before is something you
created?
Shinki: Oh, pardon me.
I'm the one who created Makai.
I am the god of Makai.
So you see, Yumeko wasn't
a golem or anything, she was just a
normal inhabitant of Makai.
Seems pretty unambiguous to me, assuming the translation is correct. (to clarify that last one, taking into account Shinki's statement before Mima's question, she's saying Yumeko is an actual normal sentient being created by her god powers, not just some golem construct)
Reimu: You keep saying you
"created" things. Do you
think you're a god or something?
Shinki : Oh, please pardon my late introduction.
That is correct - I am a god.
This world of Makai is my creation
Shinki: But if I remember correctly, the world over there has about eight million, right?
Mima: If someone that weak could become a god, then I wonder if I can, too? One of eight million (sweatdrop) ...er, what do I do to become a god, anyway? For that matter, was she actually a god (sweatdrop)
...may or may not be relevant. *shrug*
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I mean, sure, interpret things like that if you want, but don't jump on me saying that my interpretation is somehow wronger than yours because to you mine is "ludicrous", 'cause yours makes as little sense to me as mine does to you.
All I did was post here and respond to what you said. There may not be solid evidence one way or the other but we can at least try to look at the most reasonable assumptions.
As previously stated in this very thread, it's based on the fact that Makai in the background was in flames at the end of the battle against her. Although I dunno why you're bringing this up, considering that the hypothetical justification for Shinki not using her full power that I mentioned would be her wishing to not blow Makai up.
It was you who brought it up by using it to support your idea. I'm saying it doesn't make any sense. Drake didn't so much support the argument as he pointed out that that there is no evidence behind it. (Assuming I read the tone of his post correctly anyway. If that was supposed to be a succinct explanation then shame on him.) If you're planing to use it you ought to have a better reason than "the background for the final boss of an infernal dimension is on fire, therefore the whole dimension is being destroyed." Especially when there is apparently no dialogue suggesting that was happening whatsoever. It's just a background. It means next to nothing.
Dude
are you really saying that having a god that can create beings from its own power is "ludicrous", but having one "plant" a dimension, waiting for it to evolve naturally to the point of it having sentient beings, and then suddenly revealing herself and saying "I'M YOUR GOD WORKSHIP ME" is "much less silly"?
Yes. I'd think her creating an environment of objectively lesser complexity is naturally a lesser assumption. You're suggesting that she not only created the entirety of Makai piece by piece, but then held it in some kind of stasis, so that nothing new would ever be born aside from things which she conjures into existence herself. No creatures ever reproduce, no fairies ever spawn naturally, no magicians ever summon familiars. If you're going to take her statement to be so invariably absolute, all of that must follow. (And furthermore, technically speaking, if any visitors from outside Makai *coughreimucough* happened to be in it at the time she said that, it would be trivially false to begin with.)
I'm saying she shows up, conjures some demons, perhaps even starts a civilization of some kind, and then things proceed from there. She doesn't disappear, but she also does not build the entire dimension brick by brick, and any given creature there can be assumed to have been born by normal means. She thinks of Makai as her creation and given that Makai is a living, changing place, she views everything that comes from it as one of her creations as well. Maybe the precise word "creation" is slightly awkward to use like that, but the text has been translated from Japanese, and in any case, I think this is a far more natural way of looking at it. (About creation myths, as far as I'm aware most of them tend to start from something simpler than the society/world that was ultimately created, and a notable point is often that whatever gods created the world have become considerably less active than they were at the beginning.)
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It was you who brought it up by using it to support your idea. I'm saying it doesn't make any sense. Drake didn't so much support the argument as he pointed out that that there is no evidence behind it. (Assuming I read the tone of his post correctly anyway. If that was supposed to be a succinct explanation then shame on him.) If you're planing to use it you ought to have a better reason than "the background for the final boss of an infernal dimension is on fire, therefore the whole dimension is being destroyed." Especially when there is apparently no dialogue suggesting that was happening whatsoever. It's just a background. It means next to nothing.
Holy hell dude I'm not using the idea that Makai was actually destroyed in-game to support to my interpretation my gods
I stated that one could hypotethically explain her being able to lose as "She holds back her power to avoid destroying Makai". That's all. I'm not saying Makai was destroyed in the game. I'm not saying that she displayed enough power to do so. I'm not saying anything relating to any actual destruction having happened.
Yes. I'd think her creating an environment of objectively lesser complexity is naturally a lesser assumption. You're suggesting that she not only created the entirety of Makai piece by piece, but then held it in some kind of stasis, so that nothing new would ever be born aside from things which she conjures into existence herself. No creatures ever reproduce, no fairies ever spawn naturally, no magicians ever summon familiars. If you're going to take her statement to be so invariably absolute, all of that must follow.
I'm saying she shows up, conjures some demons, perhaps even starts a civilization of some kind, and then things proceed from there. She doesn't disappear, but she also does not build the entire dimension brick by brick, and any given creature there can be assumed to have been born by normal means. She thinks of Makai as her creation and given that Makai is a living, changing place, she views everything that comes from it as one of her creations as well. Maybe the precise word "creation" is slightly awkward to use like that, but the text has been translated from Japanese, and in any case, I think this is a far more natural way of looking at it. (About creation myths, as far as I'm aware most of them tend to start from something simpler than the society/world that was ultimately created, and a notable point is often that whatever gods created the world have become considerably less active than they were at the beginning.)
Shinki says "I made all the shit here". Nothing contradicts this. Nothing points towards her lying. Nothing. As "unnatural" as it seems to you (which baffles me considering that we're dealing with characters that are gods and therefore are already unnatural to begin with, and keep in mind this game is from before Touhou gods had the limitations we now know they have), I entirely fail to see why she would be unable to create everything herself, or why exactly it'd be so bizzare that everything in that world is static (since Shinki created it, she can just keep it the way she wants).
And hell, who is saying that everything there is static, anyway? Shinki can simply be considered the creator deity of that world. She shaped the world, created some servants for herself (like Yumeko), and watched it evolve naturally. When civilization started she placed herself as their ruler. Simple.
(And furthermore, technically speaking, if any visitors from outside Makai *coughreimucough* happened to be in it at the time she said that, it would be trivially false to begin with.)
......*sigh*
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Shinki can simply be considered the creator deity of that world. She shaped the world, created some servants for herself (like Yumeko), and watched it evolve naturally. When civilization started she placed herself as their ruler. Simple.
This is more or less what I've been trying to say. I don't know why you're being so abrasive.
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This is more or less what I've been trying to say. I don't know why you're being so abrasive.
I apologize, I tend to get too worked up over the simplest things.
We do seem to have different ideas regarding the full extent of her power, but since that would be in the realm of powerlevel discussions, I won't dwell on it.
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How Reimu or the others (except Yukari) manage to enter heaven actually? Is there an entrance to Heaven?
Just to make sure, their an entrance to both "Mekai" and "Hell" but both can be said to technically lie in another dimension (or whatever name you prefer). So do we don't know whether their another way for the characters (except Yukari) to access those realms apart for those entrances, isn't?
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Well, Former Hell is just really far underground. You can get there if you walk far enough and know where to find the path. I assume Heaven is the same way; fly high enough and eventually you can find the route there. The Netherworld has a big gate that normally you can't go through, but there *is* a gate. So I assume that if you're special enough, you could get to any of the afterlives by trying hard enough, but you can't be a resident there unless you're dead (or a Celestial or Oni or some other such creature).
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Tenshi's home, Bhava-agra/Uchouten (translates very roughly as "Heaven at the Peak of the World"), can be reached from the top of Youkai Mountain. It's unclear how easy it is to travel from there to the other parts of Heaven.
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Former Hell appears to by in the same physical place as Gensokyo, just really far down underground. The current Hell, where sinners are currently sent, has yet to make an actual appearance in the series, unless you count the "Hell route" of HRtP as taking place in it.
Makai is definitely a different "dimension" or "world" or whatever. I assume that the same applies to both Bhava-agra and the current Hell; in Bhava-agra's case, it's just that the entrance is "climb high enough".
but you can't be a resident there unless you're dead (or a Celestial or Oni or some other such creature).
Suika became a resident there because Tenshi gave her some land (without the approval of other celestials, it seems), so she's a special case; normally you'd have to achieve nirvana to actually live there.
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Suika became a resident there because Tenshi gave her some land (without the approval of other celestials, it seems), so she's a special case; normally you'd have to achieve nirvana to actually live there.
According to Akyuu, Nirvana is a different thing entirely. The people there are still considered celestials, but they don't have physical bodies (requiring them to possess mortals if they visit Earth).
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Can someone list those so called *contradiction* found between the PC-98 and the Windows games? I mean apart from the most obvious one like the characters appearance (i.e. hair color) and maybe change in personality.
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Former Hell appears to by in the same physical place as Gensokyo, just really far down underground. The current Hell, where sinners are currently sent, has yet to make an actual appearance in the series, unless you count the "Hell route" of HRtP as taking place in it.
Former Hell isn't within the Hakurei barrier so I figure it must have some kind of similar protection around it, if it is to still be within the earth, right?
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Can someone list those so called *contradiction* found between the PC-98 and the Windows games? I mean apart from the most obvious one like the characters appearance (i.e. hair color) and maybe change in personality.
As far as I know, other than character appearances, there is none. PC-98 had barely any info about the setting or it's metaphysics, so there really isn't much to be contradicted in the first place.
Former Hell isn't within the Hakurei barrier so I figure it must have some kind of similar protection around it, if it is to still be within the earth, right?
To be honest that's what I really want to believe, since it just makes sense, and the wiki does say that's implied that Former Hell is a different world, but for the life of me I can't find a canon source to confirm this.
It's driving me crazy
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Can someone list those so called *contradiction* found between the PC-98 and the Windows games? I mean apart from the most obvious one like the characters appearance (i.e. hair color) and maybe change in personality.
You'll have to go through the game and look at what makes sense. For example, do you think it makes sense for Reimu to want to destroy the world, as implied by Highly Responsive to Prayers? Or Reimu going through the Hell route, as we now know that is the Yama's jurisdiction. Just stuff like that. But as already mentioned, there is hardly any information on PC-98, so contradiction only happens if you interpret it some ways.
To be honest that's what I really want to believe, since it just makes sense, and the wiki does say that's implied that Former Hell is a different world, but for the life of me I can't find a canon source to confirm this.
I don't think that is the case. Former Hell seems to be in the same dimension as Gensokyo. At least nothing seems to suggest that it is in another dimension, unlike the Netherworld.
Also, doesn't it mentioned that Hokkai borders Former Hell?
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Hokkai is a region in Makai, and AFAIK has nothing to do with Hell or Former Hell.
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I don't think that is the case. Former Hell seems to be in the same dimension as Gensokyo. At least nothing seems to suggest that it is in another dimension, unlike the Netherworld.
...I know. That's what I meant when I said "can't find any canon info on it being a different world".
Also, doesn't it mentioned that Hokkai borders Former Hell?
Nope.
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Depends on how you interpret it. On this page, it talks about the underground. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Part_4.
Byakuren: I went there a few times, checking to see if we had left anything behind in the place where the Flying Vault(*1) was sealed.
If you were to assume the Flying Vault is sealed where Byakuren was sealed, then it would make sense for the underground to border Hokkai.
I thought the underground was synonymous to the Hell of Blazing Fires, but it may not be.
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But the Flying Vault wasn't sealed at the same place Byakuren was sealed :V The Flying Vault was underground, but it was unsealed by the geyser in SA, and then was collected during UFO in order to help unseal Byakuren, who was all the way in Hokkai. Two completely separate places.
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Moreover, the Hell of Blazing Fires/Remains of Blazing Hell (use the latter; more accurate) is just a subset of the underground. The Former Capital and Chireiden are above it, in Former Hell.
I can see how it's easy to confuse "Former Hell" and "bla bla Blazing Hell" but their actual terms are quite different (旧地獄 vs 灼熱地獄跡).
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I'm more inclined to think that the Hell of Blazing Fires IS Former Hell, or one of its parts, along with the Ancient City and Palace of the Earth Spirits.
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Yes, excuse me, I did mean that they were all in Former Hell (the Capital and Chireiden being above the Remains), but that the two terms aren't interchangeable. For the most part "Former Hell" is just referred to as the place where youkai actually live, i.e. the Capital, Chireiden, etc. The Remains of Blazing Hell is part of it even just if it used to be part of Hell, and it's said to be in Former Hell a bunch of times in Utsuho's SoPM article.
As said, generally when they talk about the area where characters live they use Former Hell (mostly just to refer to the City+Palace area), and the Remains of Blazing Hell is just that particular bit (even if hell ravens live there). But the point was just that the two "Hell"s aren't interchangeable.
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While we're talking about Hokkai, I wanna ask why is the only way to go there is by using the Palanquin Ship? Or rather, what makes it able to do that? Since they still have the ship, can they visit that place again?
I'm quite sure they mentioned this somewhere but I just can't remember where.
For the Former Hell, yeah, I think it were the places during SA.
Though as Hell, they had layers(right?), the Hell of Blazing Fires being one of them. Koishi also mentioned the Pool of Blood in Hell. I wonder if we'll see them in the future or ZUN will show just how big it is..., and the Yama still thought it was too small.
Some questions about Byakuren.
She was sealed in Hokkai, and it is a part of Makai. Were she able to travel around Makai during her sealing?
Also, any explanation on why Nue's power of the unknown didn't work on Byakuren? She saw them UFOs only as pieces of wood, it's real form. She also remembered Koishi in SoPM.
And later in HM, she almost immediately saw through Mamizou's disguise. Is this mentioned anywhere or was it her just being super?
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Since they still have the ship, can they visit that place again?
I'm quite sure they mentioned this somewhere but I just can't remember where.
UFO MarisaA good ending.
Some questions about Byakuren.
She was sealed in Hokkai, and it is a part of Makai. Were she able to travel around Makai during her sealing?
Considering not even wind could get into sealed Hokkai, odds are that no. Well, technically, since Hokkai is just a part of Makai, it's yes with the exception of the rest of Makai outside of Hokkai.
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A small question that probably doesn't require it's own topic, how can you take screenshots in Double Spoiler? It doesn't seem to be working as the other games do. I know how to get them manually with Print Screen, of course, but this limits me to one at a time until I exit the game and save them as an actual image file. While that works, it isn't the best option.
After a quick search, I found that the Home button should take a screenshot of the game, and indeed it creates a slight delay as if it would be generating and saving the screenshot. However, the folder remains completely empty. After pressing a few things, I've found that the P button will create a similar delay as if it was going to do the same thing, but still no screenshot. Are either of these correct?
The folder I found that I'm assuming would hold them is [E:\Touhou\12.5 ダブルスポイラー\snapshot] with E:\Touhou being the location where I install the games to on my secondary drive. Is that right, or am I just looking in the wrong place? Though for it to be incorrect would make me wonder why a snapshot folder is even located there...
If it turns out to actually be some technical issue, I'll post this over at Tech Support if needed. For now though, I wanna be sure I'm even doing it right.
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12.5 was the first game that started using the AppData folders for scores, replays, snapshots, etc.
C:\Users\you\AppData\Roaming\ShanghaiAlice\th125
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Oh, I see. Now I wonder why that snapshot folder is in 12.5's folder, but I guess I may have placed it there myself if I tried to fix it some time before I forgot about it. Finally seeing those screenshots over at AppData\Roaming\ShanghaiAlice\th125, thank you!
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Her ability to create an entire dimension does imply her to be something greater than the other gods we have seen, yeah. Since no being since then has show such power, and since she's PC-98, arguing what exactly applies to her or not using our current canon is pretty much impossible.
Miko created an entire dimension. Not too difficult, apparently. Admittedly filling it with people seems like it would be more complicated.
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Miko created an entire dimension. Not too difficult, apparently. Admittedly filling it with people seems like it would be more complicated.
one is a vast land (from what we can infer from the fact that there is a fortress and frozen regions and non-frozen regions and a place called "romantic city" and a "provincial city" and shit) filled with sentient beings and cities
the other one is a house
I don't think they can be compared.
But, that's just my opinion.
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If you want headcanon, mine is that Shinki is extremely powerful, but uses most of her powers keeping Makai stable, so she can only use a portion of her actual power against the playable characters.
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I have a question: can someone list every instance of ZUN's use of the English word "border"? Of course I mean him writing "border" in English or katakana, not anyone's translations.
The reason behind the question is, I'm trying to figure out what "Border of Duel" (IaMP) and "Border of Attack" (shooting games) means. I seem to recall ZUN himself used "border" somewhere as a translation of "kekkai". If this is true, then we may have the definite proof that the spell card rules involves magical protection and enforcement right here before our eyes.
Then again, maybe I just mixed up translation and the original text.
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On an unrelated note: Was it ever mentioned what blood type does Remilia prefer?
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I have a question: can someone list every instance of ZUN's use of the English word "border"? Of course I mean him writing "border" in English or katakana, not anyone's translations.
The reason behind the question is, I'm trying to figure out what "Border of Duel" (IaMP) and "Border of Attack" (shooting games) means. I seem to recall ZUN himself used "border" somewhere as a translation of "kekkai". If this is true, then we may have the definite proof that the spell card rules involves magical protection and enforcement right here before our eyes.
Then again, maybe I just mixed up translation and the original text.
In the Spellcard part of th08's online manual, ZUN uses 'Border of Life' for 決死結界, which explains deathbombing(喰らいボム)
Also, when you get hit in th08, a ring that says 'Border of Life' surrounds the player in the deathbombing frames.
http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/th08man/th08manindex.html
On an unrelated note: Was it ever mentioned what blood type does Remilia prefer?
In th08's キャラ設定.txt, it is said that Type-B blood tastes most delicious to her.
A single question from myself.
Do normal people who uses English tend to not distinguish between subconsciousness and unconsciousness?
Is it because unconscious has a widely used different meaning?
I ask this because the word used in Komeiji Koishi's ability is unconsciousness.
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Pretty sure almost everyone who speaks English equates Unconsciousness with being knocked out or asleep, typically the former as a result of lots and lots of violence!
Subconscious is more psychological, and seems to be what ZUN was shooting for given all the Freud etc references with Koishi.
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Pretty sure almost everyone who speaks English equates Unconsciousness with being knocked out or asleep, typically the former as a result of lots and lots of violence!
Subconscious is more psychological, and seems to be what ZUN was shooting for given all the Freud etc references with Koishi.
On TVTropes this topic had been brought up before.
The way it works seem to be like this: at first "subconsciousness" was called "unconsciousness" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscious_mind). Freud even disliked the word "subconsciousness" (see here (http://here)). However, later people came to prefer using the word "subconsciousness" to avoid confusion between "unconscious mind" and "state of being knocked out".
Nonetheless, despite the potential confusion, the concept is only ever translated as 無意識 "unconsciousness" in Japanese. The Japanese has never adopted the word "subconsciousness" (unlike in Chinese, where it has been translated as 潜意识 or 下意识).
I hope this clarifies it.
In the Spellcard part of th08's online manual, ZUN uses 'Border of Life' for 決死結界, which explains deathbombing(喰らいボム)
Also, when you get hit in th08, a ring that says 'Border of Life' surrounds the player in the deathbombing frames.
Yes, that was what I remembered.
So here: the spell card duelists are protected by a "Border of Duel". The spell card duel rules themselves do have a magical component. Another old Touhou mystery solved.
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Quick (and hopefully easily answered) question from me:
Eiki's ability in PMiSS is defined as "distinctly judging things as right or wrong." Is this an ability specific to her only, or a characteristic of all the Yama (and I guess 10 Kings, too...)? The main reason I'm asking is that it seems like all the judges would require this kind of ability if there is to be an actual chance of resolving the...congestion issue...of too many souls with not enough judges.
And if you don't mind me mucking up the Koishi question a bit: "subconscious" could also be referencing the lower brain functions such as those performed by the brain stem and spinal cord. I honestly tend to picture her as something of a walking coma-patient. What I don't understand is how she can hold a conversation with anyone...
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She has this ability because she is an Enma, yes.
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And if you don't mind me mucking up the Koishi question a bit: "subconscious" could also be referencing the lower brain functions such as those performed by the brain stem and spinal cord. I honestly tend to picture her as something of a walking coma-patient. What I don't understand is how she can hold a conversation with anyone...
Nah, the slew of Freud references that she and her spellcards have clearly indicates that "subconscious" in this case is being used in the place of "unconscious" (for reasons previously discussed; as cuc said, the original japanese only ever used unconscious), which is used in the Freudian sense of the word. Wikipedia sayz, "Freud was of the opinion that the unconscious mind has a will and purpose of its own that cannot be known to the conscious mind (hence the reason why it is called the "unconscious") and is a repository for socially unacceptable ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions put out of mind by the mechanism of psychological repression"; if we go by this definition, it makes sense that Koishi can still speak. She's not really like a walking coma patient, she's someone whose mind is pure id (that Freud classified as unconscious by definition), caring only about fullfilling whatever desire she has at the moment and not really thinking about anything else.
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I didn't feel like searching through the whole thread(s) for the answer to my question, and I am almost sure someone's asked this before, but here it goes:
Why are Touhou goddesses are always addressed to as 'gods'? That annoys me a lot, and that also made me wonder if the Hakurei Shrine god is really male (is he?). Thanks for answering.
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Gods are genderless, for one. The term for gods (神) is not gender-specific, as are most nouns in japanese. There is 女神 which is specifically goddess, but this isn't a term used as a counterpart to 神. You can call them goddesses in english just because we have that distinction, but it certainly isn't a necessary distinction to make. It really doesn't matter. If you think "god" implies male you're doing it wrong.
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Has there been any mension in canon that people's ideas of youkais can alter the way they are? I was thinking if there would be any in-universe reason why Yoshika has traits of a zombie in her and it made me think that the popularity of zombies has altered the way jiang-shis are.
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Yes. In SoPM part 3, such thing is explained about tengu, and it seems to apply to all youkai.
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This is really similar to a question asked a while back (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15213.msg1022901.html#msg1022901) but does anyone know where ZUN gets his stage background images, or does he make those himself? I ask because I want to use non-ZUN assets for a danmakufu game that I may make sometime in the future. If ZUN does make them himself, then can anyone point me in the direction of similar type images that I could use?
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Stage backgrounds are from the same sort of commercial texture packs if they aren't just picked from random images he found on the internet.
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How big is the fanbase? I know Japan's touhou fanbase is bigger than the western.
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I know Japan's touhou fanbase is bigger than the western.
I don't know actually. But I'm pretty sure Western has a large fanbase compared to Japan. I mean, even if you say atleast 80% of Japan are Touhou fans. Around 100,000,000. It wouldn't still top every Western Country's fans, which includes also secondary fans.
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- Do Japanese deity/gods like Amaterasu, Izanagi, Izanami, etc have a biological sex like us?
You know whether from the moment they were created they could be classified by their sex (male, female, intersex).
If you provide an simple answer that would certainly help me, thanks.
Also can Momiji see through things or pass the horizon with her ability on a flat land?
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Very little is revealed about Momiji.
Some of the oldest gods, including the three gods of creation, are described by Kojiki as "hitorigami" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitorigami), singular and genderless, rather than paired with a god of the opposite sex. The current English wikipedia entry says "most are male", but according to Japanese wikipedia, the hitorigami of Kojiki are supposed to be genderless, and only Nihonshoki described some of them as male.
Most other gods are supposed to have a biological sex. That's an important part of Izanagi and Izanami's story.
While Kojiki said the gods of creation are genderless, it is also often theorized that Takami-musubi and Kami-musubi represents masculinity and femininity respectively. Takami-musubi is known for supporting Amaterasu's conquest of Japan, and Kami-musubi is known for answering the prayer of Ookuninushi's mother to revive him.
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I don't know actually. But I'm pretty sure Western has a large fanbase compared to Japan. I mean, even if you say atleast 80% of Japan are Touhou fans. Around 100,000,000. It wouldn't still top every Western Country's fans, which includes also secondary fans.
I doubt Western fans are anywhere even close to 10,000,0000. Even very popular videos of the Touhou Fandom such as Bad Apple don't even cross 5 million.
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Also can Momiji see through things or pass the horizon with her ability on a flat land?
The two italics are conflicting. The horizon is the curvature of the earth; and therefor is not 'flat ground'. Momiji would not be able to see beyond it. If Momiji could see through objects; her ability would be that; not 'ability to see long distances'. Bear in mind Momiji patrols the mountains; from a high elevation; where there is a very long distance view.
The most common interpretations of Momiji's ability that I see is that she can see things in great detail; and at distances far beyond what most could. Basically her vision would be 'perfect'. As long as it is in her field of vision; she would notice; even the smallest detail.
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I'm sure I know the answer to this already, but I still want a clarification: demons, or youkai, are not immortal, right? They're simply very hard to kill, but they can still die, right?
Thanks in advance!
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Speaking of death, I have a question. If danmaku is supposed to be non-lethal, how can Mokou be killed repeatedly in IN? She explodes and uses "Resurrection" several times. Maybe it's just the way I'm looking at it, but exploding and needing to resurrect sorta implies you were killed. (or as close to dead as Mokou would get, anyways.) I know that at least some of the teams realize they don't have to hold back against someone like her, but it's still the same old danmaku and you are playing by spellcard rules, yes? So you can't really tell in-game if they were still holding back or not.
I get the feeling that she isn't actually being "killed" at all, and her Resurrection thing between spellcards is just thrown in for no reason but to emphasize her immortality. Is that correct?
Small edit: Added one more sentence to make my point more clear, in case anyone else reads this. Looks like Starxsword already understood what I was getting at though and it's been answered. Thanks!
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They most likely aren't holding back like they normally do. So, it would be fatal. Part of Spell Card rules is not to use full power, but since the opponent is immortal, they don't need to adhere to it.
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I see. That would also explain why Kaguya isn't constantly being blown up then, as if I remember correctly, they didn't immediately know she was immortal as well, so they weren't going all-out.
So if the danmaku itself isn't non-lethal, and it's just the way you use it according to the rules, I believe that covers it all nicely. Thank you!
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I know Japan's touhou fanbase is bigger than the western.
I don't know actually. But I'm pretty sure Western has a large fanbase compared to Japan. I mean, even if you say atleast 80% of Japan are Touhou fans. Around 100,000,000. It wouldn't still top every Western Country's fans, which includes also secondary fans.
(First, please refer to this board's Welcome to TARC sticky when it comes to talk of "primary" and "secondary" fans.)
More on topic, this seems like it would be impossible to measure in any quantifiable sense. How are you defining what a Touhou fan is? How do we find them and count them?
I don't think this question can be answered. Maybe in some narrow scope, like number of YT videos tagged "touhou" v. number of Nico vids tagged "東方" or whatever. Even then, I still don't think you could get a clear picture.
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I also once thought Mokou's death was a figurative way of representing her immortality, but no longer think so - Touhou's sense of humor is dark enough for her to die literally. She doesn't have to explode in-universe, only being fatally wounded is necessary.
However, since I've concluded earlier in the thread that the spell card rules really involve magical protection for the duelists, the problem becomes why is Mokou not protected from fatal wounds. Perhaps the protection is a smart system that automatically protects against severe damage, and as Mokou can't die, no damage is too severe for her to trigger the protection? This seems a bit too contrived for a theory without sufficient canon support.
In the case this theory is true, perhaps Mokou in a fighting game would have regenerating HP and/or some way to come back from HP=0, but no stun invincibility (which probably is the fighting games' way of representing this magical protection). But until then, this remains idle speculation.
I've heard another theory: Mokou's death is caused by herself pushing her body to extremes in a fight.
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Seriously saying though, some spell cards look like they can really kill people, like Spear the Gungnir, Youmu's sword-based spell cards, and Tenshi's keystone-based ones.
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I've heard another theory: Mokou's death is caused by herself pushing her body to extremes in a fight.
Her suicidal tendencies are supported by CILR, in which she claims that she prefers starving to death and regenerating to eating food.
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However, since I've concluded earlier in the thread that the spell card rules really involve magical protection for the duelists, the problem becomes why is Mokou not protected from fatal wounds. Perhaps the protection is a smart system that automatically protects against severe damage, and as Mokou can't die, no damage is too severe for her to trigger the protection? This seems a bit too contrived for a theory without sufficient canon support.
In the case this theory is true, perhaps Mokou in a fighting game would have regenerating HP and/or some way to come back from HP=0, but no stun invincibility (which probably is the fighting games' way of representing this magical protection). But until then, this remains idle speculation.
I think I may have miss something but where in the spell card rules is said/implied that the duelists are protected by some magical protection mechanism?
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I actually once thought about the whole Mokou situation, and my thoughts are as follows. Under spellcard rules (which are ALWAYS active), danmaku may not be lethal, but still can damage things (characters' clothes) and hurt living beings (Mokou being in pain after the fight). There were battles with humans before, and they were okay after a few spellcards' worth of danmaku, but a full Extra boss battle might be way more dangerous, which is why Reimu was reluctant to fight at first. Based on this, I've always seen Mokou's "Resurrections" as just her getting knocked out but instantly regaining consciousness thanks to her ability.
Based on cuc's "Border of Duel" theory, there may be another explanation. Everyone fighting has a barrier, which explodes once opponent is knocked out or out of power. Mokou, being a human, possibly just gets knocked out after each spellcard, but her ability restores her stamina until she's too hurt to fight.
Also, I wouldn't take the talk about anyone dying in a danmaku duel seriously, no matter how it's worded. In EoSD, Remilia and Reimu talked like the latter just killed Sakuya, but she was very much alive in PCB.
I'm sure I know the answer to this already, but I still want a clarification: demons, or youkai, are not immortal, right? They're simply very hard to kill, but they can still die, right?
Yes, youkai have lifespans and can die, we know this much.
I think I may have miss something but where in the spell card rules is said/implied that the duelists are protected by some magical protection mechanism?
That's just a theory cuc worded earlier. It would explain a lot, actually.
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I always thought that the deal with Mokou was that her body is SO malnourished and broken from her complete lack of care with herself that even the normally non-lethal danmaku is enough to kill her.
Yes, youkai have lifespans and can die, we know this much.
Worth noting that usually they can only be permanently killed by magical/spiritual means, which's why they're so hard to destroy.
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Unfortunately, due to Touhou's pro-wrestling style of conversation when it comes to duels, it's hard to know how serious everyone was. But it is worth noting that several teams decide "they don't have to hold back" in the pre-battle dialogue conversation explicitly because Mokou is immortal. So the game DOES address the characters agreeing that they can use lethal force because Mokou is immortal. It's just a question of how serious they were about that, since ZUN stated (and it's pretty obvious when you look at things like the Sakuya case mentioned above) that they typically aren't REALLY serious when they threaten to kill each other.
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I always thought that the deal with Mokou was that her body is SO malnourished and broken from her complete lack of care with herself that even the normally non-lethal danmaku is enough to kill her.
Worth noting that usually they can only be permanently killed by magical/spiritual means, which's why they're so hard to destroy.
Basically, it is possible to kill them using non-magical/spiritual methods, but those methods are more recommended and the best, right?
Thanks in advance!
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Eh, not really. I said "usually" mostly because, considering how varied Youkai are, there are probably some exceptions; however, generally, they are said to regenerate from physical damage extremely quickly. For instance, vampires are described as being able to fully recover from anything in a night as long as their head remains. Akyuu mentions that even if you split a youkai in five parts, they can heal right away. In one of his email interviews, (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails) Zun says that Yuki and Mai would be able to recover from physical damage completely in a few days, or a few weeks, if it was really serious.
I'd wager that, unless the wound is made by an attack that has meaning behind it (a spiritual attack, magic, things like that), they can regenerate any damage inflicted.
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Wait does that mean that others people apart form Yukari and maybe her own family could have also added/modified the contents of the Gensokyo Records and that the original contents recorded by the Child of Miare may have been changed throughout the millennium without the consent and/or notice of the Child of Miare?
My bad, I just confuse the gensokyo record with the gensokyo chronicles, forget that question.
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...what? Why would that mean that? I seriously don't get where you're coming from. There's absolutely no indication of anyone editing the Chronicles without the Child of Miare's knowledge.
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In Ten Desires, after being beaten by Reimu, Seiga said something like "To be able to hurt someone enhanced by the rentan elixir, Gensokyo shrine maidens sure are something."
What is this rentan elixir? A quick Google search shows that it's an elixir of life that brings immortality, but this can't be the same thing as the Hourai Elixir right...?
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Eh, not really. I said "usually" mostly because, considering how varied Youkai are, there are probably some exceptions; however, generally, they are said to regenerate from physical damage extremely quickly. For instance, vampires are described as being able to fully recover from anything in a night as long as their head remains. Akyuu mentions that even if you split a youkai in five parts, they can heal right away. In one of his email interviews, (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails) Zun says that Yuki and Mai would be able to recover from physical damage completely in a few days, or a few weeks, if it was really serious.
I'd wager that, unless the wound is made by an attack that has meaning behind it (a spiritual attack, magic, things like that), they can regenerate any damage inflicted.
Still, I don't it means ONLY magical and spiritual attacks can kill them. I'd say it applies more to high-leveled demons, but for lower-leveled ones, like Mystia and Wriggle, I don't think they can survive, like, having their hearts torn into pieces or blown up by bombs or nukes.
Again, I think it really depends on how powerful they are.
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Maybe. Youkai are inherently "spiritual" beings, what with being born from humanity's fear and imagination. I'd say all of them are capable of regenerating any purely physical damage over time, their power only determinating how quickly they heal. But there's no indication for or against that in canon, anyway.
In Ten Desires, after being beaten by Reimu, Seiga said something like "To be able to hurt someone enhanced by the rentan elixir, Gensokyo shrine maidens sure are something."
What is this rentan elixir? A quick Google search shows that it's an elixir of life that brings immortality, but this can't be the same thing as the Hourai Elixir right...?
Pretty sure it isn't something like the Hourai Elixir, or a bigger deal would've been made out of it, I think. Maybe it's what Seiga used to become an hermit? It certainly isn't daily prayers and good deeds that keeps her immortal...
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Basically, it's something like Chinese/Taoism Alchemy, the main goal being creating the elixir of life.
I'm quite sure this and the Hourai Elixir are different things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_alchemy
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I thought youkai were biologically immortal but could be killed if you tried *really, really* hard and were strong enough and/or used spiritual/meaningful attacks that were powerful. That does imply that they don't die by themselves, but maybe they just have an enormous lifespan.
Mokou gives no shits and probably just drives herself to death with every attack, though I have no real evidence other than it's obvious she hates being immortal and thus really wants to die.
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Youkai are physically tough yet spiritually/mentally weak. They say this over and over again in SOPM. The scale of that surely depends ont he youkai (vampires are known for unkillability), but a youkai is very unlikely to die from purely physical damage. In WAHH, when Marisa got a big cut on her arm she wished she was a youkai so it would heal quickly and without infection etc.
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In PMiSS/ Yama, "At the top of this organization, there presides 10 Yamas."
Are those 10 Yamas the 10 Kings? And Is Eiki Shiki one of those 10 Yamas?
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In PMiSS/ Yama, "At the top of this organization, there presides 10 Yamas."
Are those 10 Yamas the 10 Kings?
I'd say so, yes. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise, I think, seeing as the Ten Kings are outright stated to be the leaders of the Yamas.
And Is Eiki Shiki one of those 10 Yamas?
We had a long discussion regarding this on the last thread. My stance is still no, she isn't; Komachi explicitly stated that Eiki was once a Jizou statue in OST, and as we know from PMiSS, Jizou statues from all over the country were turned into Yamas only after the Ten Kings became unable to judge all the souls coming to them effectively.
'Sides, the Ten Kings are named on the Yama article, and none of them have Eiki's name.
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As much as I think it would be awesome for Shikieiki to be one of the heads, yeah, I'm going to have to go with Sagus. We already know who the Ten Kings are, and they existed long before the Jizou statues started being converted.
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Youkai are physically tough yet spiritually/mentally weak. They say this over and over again in SOPM. The scale of that surely depends ont he youkai (vampires are known for unkillability), but a youkai is very unlikely to die from purely physical damage. In WAHH, when Marisa got a big cut on her arm she wished she was a youkai so it would heal quickly and without infection etc.
Healing quickly doesn't mean immortal, and the latter wasn't what Marisa said. It's also known in folklore that vampires can be killed.
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It's also known in folklore that vampires can be killed.
This really depends entirely on what folklore you mean. Not even all of Europe has a consensus on vampire do's and don't's.
Are those 10 Yamas the 10 Kings? And Is Eiki Shiki one of those 10 Yamas?
oh god no not this again ...
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Healing quickly doesn't mean immortal, and the latter wasn't what Marisa said. It's also known in folklore that vampires can be killed.
Healing quickly to the point that you can survive even after being butchered sure makes physical attacks useless, though. But at any rate, no one's claiming they're immortal like the Hourais, and I'm pretty sure Clastre meant that "unkilabillity" in the sense of "nearly impossible to kill" (for instance, Remilia's description in IaMP says, as long as even one of the hundreds of bats that she can divide herself into remains, she can fully regenerate). It's just that it's pointless to physically assault them.
oh god no not this again ...
why not every thread could use some more eiki let's use three pages to discuss the hierarchy of the ministry of right and wrong again its gonna be incredibly fun :V
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Healing quickly doesn't mean immortal, and the latter wasn't what Marisa said. It's also known in folklore that vampires can be killed.
As someone else noted, I meant "unkillable" in the non-literal sense of "very hard to kill". Also, Marisa did say that? WAHH chapter 11, page 7. "At times like these, being a human is so inconvenient. I guess if I were a youkai, a wound like this would heal in no time." Said in response to being forced to disinfect her wound.
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... (for instance, Remilia's description in IaMP says, as long as even one of the hundreds of bats that she can divide herself into remains, she can fully regenerate).
- If I may ask where did you find that piece of information about Remilia in IaMP? I could not find it and it seems interesting.
Hummm strangely you people gave me an slight impression that maybe I should have asked that question about Eiki Shiki. You know most of the questions that I asked was kinda just out of curiosity about Touhou. I did read some of your discussions about Eiki Shiki but at that time I did not really understand what you were talking about (with Enma, 10 kings, 10 yamas, ministry of right and wrong, etc) nor I could find the question related to your discussions about eiki (i.e whether Eiki Shiki is one of the 10 yamas... Enma) so I just thought you were talking about something else and that why I asked my question now. If you feel that my simple question may bring about some kind of repetitive discussions that you have already finished discussing about feel free to ask me to delete it.
- How many chapter is Forbidden Scrollery supposed to be in total, 12 - 14?
- Anyone can provide a link about where I can find some info about the different emotions that those 66 masks that Kokoro represent? anger, hope, etc
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- If I may ask where did you find that piece of information about Remilia in IaMP? I could not find it and it seems interesting.
It's on her profile for that game, that you can read in the her wiki page (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Remilia_Scarlet#): "She may be weak against sunlight, but she has a pretty strong constitution, so as long as some bit of her still remains, say, a little bat, she can regenerate any time."
- How many chapter is Forbidden Scrollery supposed to be in total, 12 - 14?
- Anyone can provide a link about where I can find some info about the different emotions that those 66 masks that Kokoro represent? anger, hope, etc
- It currently has 12 chapters.
- Kokoro's wiki page (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hata_no_Kokoro) has a list with the masks actual names, but for easy reference:
Young woman mask: Joy
Red demon mask: Anger
Old woman mask: Pathos, melancholy
Golden laughing mask: Humor, laughter
Mask that has a scarf with blue dots around his head: Cheerful
Monkey: Confusion, awkwardness
Yellow demon mask: Surprise
Fox mask: Determination, seriousness
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i'll do the eiki thing tomorrow after my exams okay guys jeez
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three pages of eiki here we goooooooooooooooooooo
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i mean editing the various wiki pages on the subject, because that is very much a source of misinformation and confusion
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As someone else noted, I meant "unkillable" in the non-literal sense of "very hard to kill". Also, Marisa did say that? WAHH chapter 11, page 7. "At times like these, being a human is so inconvenient. I guess if I were a youkai, a wound like this would heal in no time." Said in response to being forced to disinfect her wound.
I never said anything about Marisa saying that healing quickly means being immortal, assuming that's what I think you're talking about...
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I never said anything about Marisa saying that healing quickly means being immortal, assuming that's what I think you're talking about...
Okay, I guess you just misread my entire post, and thought it was saying something it wasn't. I was just providing more evidence that youkai heal quickly. I never addressed the immortality issue at all.
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Okay, I guess you just misread my entire post, and thought it was saying something it wasn't. I was just providing more evidence that youkai heal quickly. I never addressed the immortality issue at all.
In WAHH, when Marisa got a big cut on her arm she wished she was a youkai so it would heal quickly and without infection etc.
I thought you were saying something kind of irrelevant to demons being immortal or not when you mentioned that, so I brought up the "healing quickly =/= immortality" statement.
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However, since I've concluded earlier in the thread that the spell card rules really involve magical protection for the duelists, the problem becomes why is Mokou not protected from fatal wounds. Perhaps the protection is a smart system that automatically protects against severe damage, and as Mokou can't die, no damage is too severe for her to trigger the protection? This seems a bit too contrived for a theory without sufficient canon support.
If we are to assume Spell Card Rules provide some sort of protection, which with the evidence you supplied, suggests there is that possibility, then, we can assume fighters are more or less safe during Spell Card Rules.
However, it is too quick to simply assume Spell Card Rules provide absolute protection. In the Spell Card Rules itself, it mentions about not going all out. I would assume anyone relatively strong can break that safety net that Spell Card Rules does provide. I think of Spell Card rules as wearing protective gear, it won't save the other person if you are trying to kill them, but it will save them if you are competing.
I always thought that the deal with Mokou was that her body is SO malnourished and broken from her complete lack of care with herself that even the normally non-lethal danmaku is enough to kill her.
While we know that she doesn't care about her health, we also know that she is more than healthy enough for any kind of physical activity as seen by Inaba of the Earth and Inaba of the Moon.
It's just a question of how serious they were about that, since ZUN stated (and it's pretty obvious when you look at things like the Sakuya case mentioned above) that they typically aren't REALLY serious when they threaten to kill each other.
I agree, their seriousness in pre-battle banter is usually suspect. They usually just trash talk during their pre-battle banter dialogues. Their post battle dialogue seems to imply that they are using attacks that could be fatal. As seen in this post battle dialogue (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Story/Barrier_Team%27s_Extra):
Yukari: Wow, look, she's still alive. She really can't die, huh?
Reimu: I'm seriously surprised. It looked like she was about to die a bunch of times.
Mokou: Ow, ow! I won't die, but it still hurts~.
Marisa's Afterword (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/The_Grimoire_of_Marisa/Afterword_by_Marisa_Kirisame) on her Grimoire gives a somewhat detailed explanation about Spell Card rules. This quote should explain the basics of spell card rules and how it should be used:
Like "Danmaku Bounded Field" and "Imperishable Shooting", most theatrical types tend to mirror the ability of the user so it's fun to watch. These kinds of danmaku exist for no reason other than the basic idea behind the spellcard rules. If the purpose was to annihilate the enemy, theatrical danmaku are complete nonsense.
I'd say it applies more to high-leveled demons, but for lower-leveled ones, like Mystia and Wriggle, I don't think they can survive, like, having their hearts torn into pieces or blown up by bombs or nukes.
Wriggle is not a very good example, as she did beat up Reisen. But as some others have said: Even weak Youkai are more or less very hard to be hurt by physical damage. If the damage isn't spiritual in nature, it will likely not work. So, the use of stuff like guns, swords will likely do little without some sort of enchantment.
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- It currently has 12 chapters.
- Kokoro's wiki page (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hata_no_Kokoro) has a list with the masks actual names, but for easy reference:
1.Young woman mask: Joy
2.Red demon mask: Anger
3.Old woman mask: Pathos, melancholy
4.Golden laughing mask: Humor, laughter
5.Mask that has a scarf with blue dots around his head: Cheerful
6.Monkey: Confusion, awkwardness
7.Yellow demon mask: Surprise
8.Fox mask: Determination, seriousness
9) Mask of hope?
- I know the manga has currently 12 chapters from touhou wiki but will there be "more" (maybe a 13 - 14 chapter) is my question?
Or were you telling that the manga will have only 12 in total?
- What I wanted to know if there a link where I can find "all" (66 masks and not just 9 masks) of Kokoro masks and the different emotions that they represent?
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Question time: Is there an english translation patch for Touhou 13.5 and 14 yet?
Is there any detailed information regarding the 4 devas?
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i mean editing the various wiki pages on the subject, because that is very much a source of misinformation and confusion
awwww...
- I know the manga has currently 12 chapters from touhou wiki but will there be "more" (maybe a 13 - 14 chapter) is my question?
Or were you telling that manga will have only 12 in total?
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.
No, the manga won't have only 12 chapters. It's unknown how many chapters FS will have.
- What I wanted to know if there a link where I can find "all" (66 masks and not just 9 masks) of Kokoro masks and the different emotions that they represent?
There's none. We only ever see those 9 masks in game and there's no mention of what the rest of them may be/represent.
Question time: Is there an english translation patch for Touhou 13.5 and 14 yet?
Here's the thread for 13.5's translation. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14754.msg1041510.html#msg1041510)
I'm not aware of an english patch for 14.
Is there any detailed information regarding the 4 devas?
Nope. We only know that there's 4 of them and that Suika and Yuugi are part of the group.
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Will ZUN ever come to a con that's more accessible for me? Like, near PA, and in the summer?
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There's always a possibility, of course, but only ZUN himself knows. We can't predict whether or not he'll go to any particular cons (or even if or when he'll make another trip to the US) unless he says so himself first.
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Can you spoiler me regarding the endings in DDC? I've already 1CC all the characters and I really need to know what happens after that.
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Can you spoiler me regarding the endings in DDC? I've already 1CC all the characters and I really need to know what happens after that.
ZUN has expressly forbidden spoiling endings, but I think with some basic Google-fu you can find the results of folks who've gone ahead and done it anyway.
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Do Sanae's usage of star-shape danmaku patterns have any meaning to them, or are there just there to make her special?
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sanae is a GENKI GIRL and GENKI GIRLS always need STARS EVERYWHERE
I guess stars are a sort of wish motif, which you could attach to the whole miracles thing. But really I think it was mostly ZUN thinking of cool patterns. The star symbolism I don't think is all that prominent in japanese culture.
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The pentagram is the symbol of the five elements in East Asian culture. I never even thought of it as a "star" symbol since it's blatantly a pentagram every time she uses it. Contrast the stars used by Marisa.
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Could also be related to Douman Seiman (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%BB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%B3%E3%83%89%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%B3), given she has a "Nine Syllable Stabs" spellcard too.
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Is there any info about Sanae parents? Did she just disappear like that from the Outside World?
Also any idea if Zun is still planning to release some sort of data book about his characters height?
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Is there any info about Sanae parents?
Nope.
Did she just disappear like that from the Outside World?
No info on that either.
Also any idea if Zun is still planning to release some sort of data book about his characters height?
I imagine you're referring to his "I might officially announce an order of height if there's a demand" comment on this (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN's_E-mails) email. As far as I know, he hasn't said anything regarding the characters height since then. Cuc mentioned that the artist of the Three Fairies manga was the only one who asked Zun about the characters' heights, so you I suppose you can consider the heights shown in those manga to be the canon ones.
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The pentagram symbol is not widely used "in East Asia culture" - it's invented by the great onmyouji Abe no Seimei, with five points symbolizing five elements.
The crosshatch motion is an application (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB:Kuji-kiri02.png) of the nine syllable spell which you are familiar with from any number of fiction involving Japanese magic. The nine syllables also appeared in Reimu's bombs in HRtP and SoEW. This action - 4 vertical cuts and 5 horizontal cuts - is supposed to be performed using katana, and Sanae doing it with her gohei might be ZUN's invention.
While both the nine syllables spell and the pentagram are widely used in Japanese pop culture, I don't think I've seen a fictional work other than Touhou use the crosshatch cuts yet.
However, as C.Angel said, the inspiration for putting the two symbols together in Sanae's spell cards, may originate from an even stranger place. "Seiman Douman" or "Douman Seiman", a pentagram together with a crosshatch, is a symbol from the female Ama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ama_%28diving%29) divers. They draw it on their tools and clothes using purple ink from shells, for warding off demons. The Ama are a people with their own unique culture and religion yet to be fully understood, so it's not known how do these two symbols found their way to the Ama, although it's popularly assumed "Seiman" refers to Seimei, while "Douman" refers to Douman, Seimei's contemporary rival magician.
Wikipedia says the protagonist of the pulp novel "Teito Monogatari" (Tale of Imperial Capital) made use of Seiman Douman. This is one of ZUN's old favorites, from which he had drawn a few story ideas, so he should have known about this symbol.
Anyway, thanks to C.Angel for giving this lead!
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The pentagram symbol is not widely used "in East Asia culture" - it's invented by the great onmyouji Abe no Seimei, with five points symbolizing five elements.
Well, I just got that from wikipedia, specifically the article on Wu Xing. Although now that I think about it there's a pretty big difference between a diagram and a symbol.
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Well, I just got that from wikipedia, specifically the article on Wu Xing. Although now that I think about it there's a pretty big difference between a diagram and a symbol.
Indeed, it took an inventor to turn a diagram into a magical symbol. Perhaps Abe no Seimei, like all great sorcerers in history, was primarily a master of marketing.
A deeper examination on the matter of magical borders in Touhou.
The word 結界, pronounced kekkai in Japanese, is translated from the Sanskrit "s?m?bandha" (most occurrences on the web spell it as "siimaabandha" or "simabandha"). According to this dictionary (http://www.spokensanskrit.de), "s?m?" means "border", and "bandha" means "tying", with dozens of extended meanings such as "combining" and "arrangement". 結界, then, is a direct translation of this word, 結 = "tying" and 界 = "border".
In fact, "bandha" is etymologically from the same root (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bend&allowed_in_frame=0) as the English words "bind", "band", "bond", "bend" and "bound".
The best source I've found on 結界 in Buddhism is a Chinese article (http://fofa.foxue.org/2006/429_0612/77213.html).
1. Areas delineated to ensure monks do not break moral taboos in everyday life. For example, cooking food at places of residency is forbidden, and must be done in a designated area.
2. Area of the temple.
The following meanings are mostly used in Japan:
3. Areas delineated by esoteric schools for training, which offers protection against demons, Almost the entirety of Japan's Mt. Koyasan and Mt. Hiei are this type of kekkai.
4. Areas delineated by Zen school for training.
5. Areas where taboos such as women, meat food, spicy food etc. are not allowed to enter, often marked by boundary stones.
By the way, the English wikipedia article currently corresponding to kekkai is about boundary stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_sema) in Thai temples. Kekkai also has other expanded meanings in Japanese, but they are irrelevant to this discussion.
If you are familiar with religion studies, you can see that kekkai is based on the concept of creating sacred space by defining its boundaries, which is universal to all human cultures. We'll get back to this later.
As everyone knows, in Japanese pop culture, the esoteric Buddhism function of kekkai, "keeping demons out", has been greatly expanded. Now when kekkai is brought up in anime, we think of powerful supernatural barriers that can separate space into pocket dimensions. No doubt ZUN started working from this place.
(To be continued)
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In EoSD, Gensokyo was simply a hidden paradise for youkai, safeguarded by Reimu. When she set out, she was worried that if the red mist spreads to where humans live, humans would discover Gensokyo and destroy it. While the English text on the EoSD startup screen talks about "border land", it refers to Gensokyo's status as a land on the border of human civilization (EoSD manual).
In PCB, the concept of a powerful kekkai that separates Gensokyo from the outside has been established. This theme of boundary is echoed in other places: a kekkai separates Netherworld from the real world; a youkai of borders; and the Supernatural Border system.
The Supernatural Border system is written in Japanese as 森羅結界 Shinra Kekkai. 森羅 originally means "many things juxtaposed like trees in a forest". The modern Japanese mostly know it as the first part of 森羅万象 shinra-banshou, "all phenomena in the universe", i.e. "everything there is", which has become another fanciful term abused by Japanese pop culture. ZUN was mostly using it to sound awesome, as proven by his answer (http://toho-motoneta.net/index.php?cmd=read&page=%C5%EC%CA%FD%CD%C5%A1%B9%CC%B4#z0257b87) about its meaning:
何故森羅結界かというと、辺りは冬、プレイヤーの周りだけ桜を集めて春、
超自然的な境界(Spuernatural Border)になるのでこういう名前にしておきました。
About why it is Shinra Kekkai, the name comes from that the surroundings are in winter, while only the area around the player has turned into spring by the gathered sakura petals, forming a Supernatural Border.
(To be continued)
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Where can I see the scroll you guys made as one image with just the art?
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14392.0.html
start here
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While both the nine syllables spell and the pentagram are widely used in Japanese pop culture, I don't think I've seen a fictional work other than Touhou use the crosshatch cuts yet.
Super Robot Wars seems to like them.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rBW3kzy7WA&t=4m (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rBW3kzy7WA&t=4m)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc2lwQyftB8&t=50s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc2lwQyftB8&t=50s) (not the right number but still)
EDIT: They show up in Tokyo Ravens ep7
[Kekkai]
I guess you could call it a "sanctuary" (in both meanings of the word), though I've never heard that term used in relation to it.
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So, about the moon. There's the fake moon that you and I see out the window, the "scientific moon". There's the real one that has the Lunar Capital, with oceans and peaches. But in Imperishable Night, Eirin swapped out the true moon with another fake moon...by sealing the earth? Except the moon was fake all along because the real one would drive everyone mad? ...How does the moon really work in Touhou?
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It is more likely that Eirin swapped the true moon, as in the Lunar Capital one.
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My understanding is that the Lunar Capital and our scientific moon is exactly the same, just in different dimensions. Lunar Capital is basically like Gensokyo, protected inside a barrier that prevents outsiders from coming in.
In IN, Eirin didn't replace the moon. She replaced the reflection of the moon in the night sky. For an analogy, think of it as instead of looking at the night sky through the window, the window is covered by a black curtain with cardboard cutouts of moon and stars.
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What Eirin did references the "Earth in a Bottle" story, which is also one of her spellcards. So it's best to think of it as her surrounding the earth with a large barrier that has a false moon painted on it (as the above poster mentioned). The real moon is still out there, but we can't reach it from earth. And yes, the real moon is the same one that the Apollo missions landed on, it's just that the Lunar Capital is hidden by a barrier of illusion like Gensokyo that can only be reached by people who know the secret route necessary to make it reachable. Or come directly from Gensokyo liek Remilia's rocket (Which implies that they actually share a barrier? Or that their similarity makes them necessarily linked?).
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Or come directly from Gensokyo liek Remilia's rocket (Which implies that they actually share a barrier? Or that their similarity makes them necessarily linked?).
I think the Sumiyoshi gods that Reimu summoned might have something to do with that.
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Yea, I believe it was addressed in SSiB that a normal rocket couldn't reach the Lunarian capital that way, but Remilia's could due to the gods. Or because of that charm Eirin secretly placed on it (that Patchouli found out about, anyways). Or both. I forget. If I recall correctly, Eirin said it was perfect as it was for getting to the Lunar capital (thanks to the gods thing, presumably) but added the charm just in case.
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There's also Yukari messing with the boundary of the real and fantastic moon.
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Which had nothing to do with the flight of the said rocket.
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Yea, I believe it was addressed in SSiB that a normal rocket couldn't reach the Lunarian capital that way, but Remilia's could due to the gods. Or because of that charm Eirin secretly placed on it (that Patchouli found out about, anyways). Or both. I forget. If I recall correctly, Eirin said it was perfect as it was for getting to the Lunar capital (thanks to the gods thing, presumably) but added the charm just in case.
They specifically said it was because it was from Gensokyo. The gods are just sailing gods that ensure a safe voyage, they have no particularly Lunar Barrier penetrating powers.
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Which implies that they actually share a barrier? Or that their similarity makes them necessarily linked?
I'd wager it's the second, since the Hakurei barrier is much, much younger than the Lunar Capital.
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The real moon is still out there, but we can't reach it from earth.
The issue here is Kaguya's dialogue refutes that. Kaguya's dialogue seems to imply behind her is the real moon. I am not quite sure how to interpret that.
It could be that at Eientei specifically, you could see the real moon?
Kaguya: This is the true full moon. I wonder when it was that this full moon vanished from the earth, along with its power to drive people insane.
Remilia: This full moon is... Sakuya! Watch out!
Kaguya: Yes, this true full moon will drive mad any human who looks directly at it.
They specifically said it was because it was from Gensokyo. The gods are just sailing gods that ensure a safe voyage, they have no particularly Lunar Barrier penetrating powers.
I don't think that is the case. I am pretty sure it is because what Patchouli did. Patchouli's comment (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_bougetsushou_silent_sinner_in_blue/v01/c011/16.html) and Eirin's responses seem to imply that it is dependant on how the rocket is built.
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I don't think that is the case. I am pretty sure it is because what Patchouli did. Patchouli's comment (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_bougetsushou_silent_sinner_in_blue/v01/c011/16.html) and Eirin's responses seem to imply that it is dependant on how the rocket is built.
Those comments imply that Patchouli actually has no idea what she's doing. She doesn't even understand that it's supposed to be difficult. She built a rocket to chase after the object in the sky, no more and no less. In that sense, she did exactly the same thing NASA did, except from within Gensokyo, where their understanding of what the moon is is slightly different.
As for what the design of the rocket actually is, it's just a vessel for the three part gods of the voyage, dressed up as an outside world rocket based on pictures from a magazine and topped off with a personal touch (the bat). Absolutely no part of it is designed to pierce the Lunar barrier. It's just an object that flies towards the moon.
She did mention something about timing it to arrive on the full moon on the next few pages though, which seems incredibly more relevant to this discussion.
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Those comments imply that Patchouli actually has no idea what she's doing.
It doesn't matter whether Patchouli has any idea what she is doing. What matters is Eirin thinks the idea is sound.
Absolutely no part of it is designed to pierce the Lunar barrier. It's just an object that flies towards the moon
What I am reading there is that the implication is if you build a rocket to go to the fantastic moon(real), then you will go there. If you build a rocket to go to the outside world's moon(fake), then you go there.
Patchouli builds her rocket based on the previous reasoning, not based on the outside world, which is why the rocket will make it to the true moon. She also took into account of the timing, as the lunar capital is only available during the full moon. But that information was given to her by someone.
She did mention something about timing it to arrive on the full moon on the next few pages though, which seems incredibly more relevant to this discussion.
Yes, she did, but the latter part is talking about how it needs to be during the full moon because of some active barrier. The earlier part talks about how to reach the fantastic moon, over the fake moon.
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Yes, she did, but the latter part is talking about how it needs to be during the full moon because of some active barrier. The earlier part talks about how to reach the fantastic moon, over the fake moon.
I think you're confused. The fake moon only existed for one night, during the events of IN. There is no fake moon anymore. There's the fantastic moon and the scientific moon, but neither are "fake". If anything, the fantastic one is more "fake" because of the nature of illusions and Gensokyo.
That said, yes, she can aim for the fantastic moon from Gensokyo, because in Gensokyo that's simply the moon they see in the sky. They look up at night and can confidently say to themselves "yup, that's where the moon people live" because Gensokyo is that sort of place. Ergo, they are already in the same plane of existence, the same level of reality, and nothing special needs to be done other than fly straight up until you reach it.
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Hey, it's me again!
What kind of cat youkai is Chen and Orin? What are the differences (if any) between this two?
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Chen is a nekomata. Basically, just a usual housecat that lived extremely long, and because of that learned how to use magic and become human-like.
Orin is a kasha, native denizen of hell. They're known for carrying away corpses.
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What can anyone tell me about Lian Fu Star Mine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl_aTZPM5Eo)? Where does the name come from, does it have roots in anything canon, and was ZUN involved in its conception?
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You mean the PSP game Nendroid Generation (that's its name; I don't know what "Lian Fu Star Mine" is, probably name of an attack from the game?). ZUN is not involved, though it must have gotten his permission to be made.
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I don't know what "Lian Fu Star Mine" is, probably name of an attack from the game?
Yeah, it says that in the title and description, and you can see it being selected from the menu. ??? All I can make out of the name though is that "Star Mine" is in katakana and it's got a standard Touhou prefix of "Something Sign".
Link semi-related: best attack in that game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfYfQb8FBBk).
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Reimu and Marisa's combination attack:
連符「陰陽スターマイン」 Combination Sign "Yin-Yang Starmine"
The attack damages all enemies, and may cause the "tinnitus" status.
EDIT:
"Star mine/star mine" is a type of fireworks. In Touhou, it is used in Udonge's SWR spell card (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody/Spell_Cards/Reisen_Udongein_Inaba#Spell_Card_2), Illusion Bomb "Myopic Fireworks (Mind Starmine)".
Probably due to Japan's love of fireworks, "starmine" is a somewhat popular word there, e.g. there are pop songs titled "Starmine", so it's not like this is a super obscure word that only ZUN would use. I also couldn't find any proof about him being involved with the game. These, among other things, seem to indicate this spell card is non-canonical.
BTW, this reminds me of the one very special semi-canonical spell card, ZUN's contribution (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Miscellaneous_illustrations_by_ZUN#Touhou_Lastword_Collection) to the doujin artbook "Touhou Last Word Collection": 夢符「幻想一重」 Dream Sign "Gensou Hitoe".
Gensou = "fantasy". There is a phrase in Japanese, 紙一重 kami-hitoe "(separated by) a sheet of paper", i.e. a tiny difference, a fine line. So the name of the spell card can be understood as, "what separates fantasy and reality is as thin as a sheet of paper".
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Is there any way to get a quick breakdown of the newer characters' personalities and abilities? I'm looking for the most widely, generally-accepted portrayals of the characters from Ten Desires(and their names/descriptions because HO BOY AM I BEHIND ON THE TIMES), and possibly the ones from the latest fighting game. The dullahan, werewolf, and mermaid would be appreciated too, but aren't critical for what I'm looking for.
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Is there any way to get a quick breakdown of the newer characters' personalities and abilities? I'm looking for the most widely, generally-accepted portrayals of the characters from Ten Desires(and their names/descriptions because HO BOY AM I BEHIND ON THE TIMES), and possibly the ones from the latest fighting game. The dullahan, werewolf, and mermaid would be appreciated too, but aren't critical for what I'm looking for.
I think the only thing that canonically exists for them so far is their profiles and their dialogue from Double Dealing Character. So all you really have to do is go read up the conversations and profiles on the wiki and that's it. Should only take like, an hour, tops, I think.
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Is there any more info from the game about the phantoms surrounding Yuyuko? Well except that they sometime carry object for her.
Any idea where/when did this general portray of Hakurei Miko (supposedly Reimu mother) - popular fanart come from?
You know the one who generally seem like an adult version of Reimu Hakurei from many artwork.
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I think the only thing that canonically exists for them so far is their profiles and their dialogue from Double Dealing Character. So all you really have to do is go read up the conversations and profiles on the wiki and that's it. Should only take like, an hour, tops, I think.
The taoists? In DDC? :v
Also who is the mask girl?
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Any idea where/when did this general portray of Hakurei Miko (supposedly Reimu mother) - popular fanart come from?
You know the one who generally seem like an adult version of Reimu Hakurei from many artwork.
The Hakurei Miko(先代巫女, shrine maiden of the previous generation) was originally a MUGEN character created by someone known as プレート.
Says http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/先代巫女(mugen)
Doesn't matter too much, but the usual honorific for this プレート person seems to be 氏.
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Is there any more info from the game about the phantoms surrounding Yuyuko? Well except that they sometime carry object for her.
Not that I know of. All I know they're a 100% necessity to her as she's always been with them even in official printed works. And also they don't carry object anymore after SWR.
Any idea where/when did this general portray of Hakurei Miko (supposedly Reimu mother) - popular fanart come from?
You know the one who generally seem like an adult version of Reimu Hakurei from many artwork.
Basically she's a Reimu-derived fan-made character that's in the game MUGEN. These fan-made characters are not uncommon, you should see Hakurei Meimu.
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The taoists? In DDC? :v
Also who is the mask girl?
There are no taoists in DDC.
Mask Girl is Hata no Kokoro, the only new character and last boss of Hopeless Masquerade. For her and all the new characters on DDC, there's really only the official profiles and dialogues, so it really wouldn't take long to read them. For the TD characters, just read their offical and the SoPM profiles. If Miko is proeminent in what you're writting/doing, read the Symposium part of the book too, it shows her personality quite well.
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There are no taoists in DDC.
Mask Girl is Hata no Kokoro, the only new character and last boss of Hopeless Masquerade. For her and all the new characters on DDC, there's really only the official profiles and dialogues, so it really wouldn't take long to read them. For the TD characters, just read their offical and the SoPM profiles. If Miko is proeminent in what you're writting/doing, read the Symposium part of the book too, it shows her personality quite well.
What is SoPM, and how do I get it (in english)?
Also yeah I found the right wiki page now wooo
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What is SoPM, and how do I get it (in english)?
Also yeah I found the right wiki page now wooo
Symposium of Post Mysticism. It's like the Perfect Memento book, for Mountain of Faith to Ten Desires. The titular Symposum is a debate between Kanako, Byakuren and Miko (with Marisa and Akyuu providing commentary) about many different things. You can find it in english in the wiki. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism)
By the way, that same wiki also has the official profiles and story translations for all the characters/games.
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Mask Girl is Hata no Kokoro, the only new character and last boss of Hopeless Masquerade. For her and all the new characters on DDC, there's really only the official profiles and dialogues, so it really wouldn't take long to read them.
Nah, they showed up in the manga as well.
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Nah, they showed up in the manga as well.
Oh yeah, Kokoro did. She didn't have any lines though.
The DDC characters haven't appeared in the manga, though, have they? Unless it was in the as of yet untraslated chapters of WaHH and FS.
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In many Tewi fanwork at the end of her sentence she add "USA" so what does it mean exactly?
There something I find a bit strange about Eiki Shiki profile "Age: Immortal (Age is presently Unknown)"
Why put the word immortal near age in her profile?
EDIT: I can understand that technically speaking yamas can be considered as immortal but what does one being a immortal have to do with age? It does not really matter anyway.
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In many Tewi fanwork at the end of her sentence she add "USA" so what does it mean exactly?
There something I find a bit strange about Eiki Shiki profile "Age: Immortal (Age is presently Unknown)"
Why put the word immortal just near age?
United States of America
It comes from the name of her species (rabbit = usagi)
To emphasize that it doesn't matter?
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The ~usa tic is like a ~de geso or ~ze verbal tic, or so I've always felt.
Shikieiki is the only notable yama that we deal with; technically Yamas are all immortal, and kind of a fact of the universe.
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i mean editing the various wiki pages on the subject, because that is very much a source of misinformation and confusion
Drake, if I may ask what exactly did you edit about the wiki pages of Eiki Shiki? Isn't it the same as before or did you mean edit the old touhou wiki?
Anyone knows if the touhou wiki about Eirin Yagokoro been changed recently?
Can the keys ( "X" for shoot become "D"...) in touhou game be configured?
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i totally haven't done it yet sorry
Recent changes: You can look up the page's edit history from the page itself around the top-right.
Changing controls: Not in-game with the keyboard. Changing the buttons around is for sticks and other controllers. But if you want to remap keys you can do that using AutoHotKey (easily googleable).
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Oh yeah, Kokoro did. She didn't have any lines though.
The DDC characters haven't appeared in the manga, though, have they? Unless it was in the as of yet untraslated chapters of WaHH and FS.
Shinmyoumaru appears with a significant number of speaking lines in one of the untranslated Forbidden Scrollery chapters. She currently lives at Reimu's shrine in a small box, waiting for the mallet to recharge so she can increase her size again. Reimu bullies her for some information about tsukumogami.
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Where are these RAWs?
A little talk about the Four Oni Devas.
Could it be that the 4th Deva is dead? You know, it might be the one who possessed the Lucky Mallet and got slayed by Issun.
We knew that each of them have their own magical item(Ibuki Gourd, Hoshiguma Dish, and maybe Ibaraki Medicine Box) and the Lucky Mallet certainly is one. Though since it doesn't have any name on it and it has nothing to do with booze, I'm probably wrong.
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Could it be that the 4th Deva is dead? You know, it might be the one who possessed the Lucky Mallet and got slayed by Issun.
Very probably not. The stories themselves are completely unrelated. The remaining deva(s) would be either Torakuma or Kanaguma.
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Very probably not. The stories themselves are completely unrelated. The remaining deva(s) would be either Torakuma or Kanaguma.
Yeah, I figured that it has to be related to the legend of Shuten-douji. Say, what connection do those two have? Care to elaborate?
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- Has the 19th of Wild and Horned Hermit already been completely translated?
Touhou wiki - Sanae profile - Add Info - "Sanae talks with Kanako in the chapter 19th of Wild and Horned Hermit."
In chap 11th of CoLA Rinnosuke say the following: What if, after seeing the outside world, I couldn’t return to Gensokyo anymore? "Humans that are spirited away almost never have a chance to come back again." On the other hand, if I open my eyes believing this to be only a visual and auditory illusion, my thoughts wouldn’t cross the border and would be back to Gensokyo, but I could miss my chance to see the outside world.
- What did he meant by "spirited away"?
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- What did he meant by "spirited away"?
In Touhou, it just means "disappearing from outside world and appearing in Gensokyo", mostly about humans. Yukari is said to be the one usually behind this.
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In Touhou, it just means "disappearing from outside world and appearing in Gensokyo", mostly about humans. Yukari is said to be the one usually behind this.
- What about the reverse "Gensokyo to Outside world" or does the Hakurei Barrier can prevent that from happening?
From the impression I got by reading this particular chapter I did have a slight impression that Rinnosuke could have been also spirited away (assuming he really want to) from the Gensokyo to the outside world... well it either that or he was really just dreaming.
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It's two-way. Rinnosuke was by a weak point in the Barrier and picked up an item from the outside (iPod) and tried to use it. Doing so made him really susceptible to "being in the outside world".
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It's two-way. Rinnosuke was by a weak point in the Barrier and picked up an item from the outside (iPod) and tried to use it. Doing so made him really susceptible to "being in the outside world".
Does those weak pt you are talking about appear spontaneously like that and disappear or are they let say localize?
- If you please could you elaborate a bit what you mean by "Rinnosuke was by a weak point in the Barrier..." Are you implying that maybe Kourindou lies on a weak pt of the barrier?
Also something bother me a bit about one the picture from touhou: SSaBND manga - http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_sangetsusei_strange_and_bright_nature_deity/v03/c024/7.html
- Since I haven't really pay attention to the representation of Hakurei house in other manga I can't really say for sure but where exactly is the storehouse and the pond in this picture? Are they that far away from the main house?
I may be wrong here but it seems in CoLA chap 13 of new touhou wiki 2 lines have remain untranslated... I want to know if whether they have been translated or not, thanks?
Also in the old touhou wiki, it seems that those 2 lines are missing.
- 「では、貴方が意図的に集めたわけではないのですね」
- 「良かったぁ」
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Actually I was mistaken there, I was thinking of Nazrin moving to Muenzuka because there were many treasures coming in from the outside world, which was information given to her by Rinnosuke, who in CoLA previously found that Muenzuka was where these items would periodically pop up, because it is at a weak point along the Barrier. So I mixed that all up. Muenzuka is at a crossing between Gensokyo, the outside world, Higan, and the Netherworld. Also worthy of note is that the Forest of Magic leads to Muenzuka by the Road of Reconsideration, and Rinnosuke lives right outside the Forest of Magic.
The actual reason, as implied by Yukari in that chapter, is that Rinnosuke is part youkai, and so is more easily affected by the outside's influence (just as humans are easily affected by Gensokyo's influence and find their way in more often than getting out). I'm not entirely sure why an iPod in particular was chosen, when by that time I'm pretty sure ZUN already revealed that cell phone towers have popped up, which are arguably just as outside-world-y.
SaBND: Pretty sure that's just because those details weren't important enough to mention. It's likely a error from carelessness, it's difficult to enforce canonical scenery and ZUN doesn't seem to care all that much. Take the SDM for example, which looks different basically every time it's shown. And has windows.
Translation: Done, but now my attention is brought to how shoddy the whole translation is. I fixed the lines afterward because they made little sense in context.
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Does anybody happen to know if Keine-hakutaku has a tail?
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Yes, see attachment.
[attach=1]
Compare to Stage 3, where that's not visible, so it's definitely not just her hair being long or anything.
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- Anyone care to expl how copyright stuff about popular touhou doujinshi/ fan animation work out in Japan?
Assuming you have the mean plus the resource to finalize your fan project, can anyone just create some good quality fan animation and sell it like that at some official touhou convention irrespectively of whether or not you have the authorization of ZUN?
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Anyone care to expl how copyright stuff about popular touhou doujinshi/ fan animation work out in Japan?
Assuming you have the mean plus the resource to finalize your fan project, can anyone just create some good quality fan animation and sell it like that at some official touhou convention irrespectively of whether or not you have the authorization of ZUN?
The 20th chapter of WaHH is going to be the last of this manga, isn't it?
Anyone knows the name of both the singers singing this touhou song
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98snHMxW4Vs
I don't really know how that works. But probably because there's a convention purposely just for Touhou. As long as it's there, it's fine?
Drake would probably know this better.
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I'm currently working on my new home on my Minecraft server and it's gonna be a tower on a floating island. To make it magically and pretty evil or dark looking I'm gonna use tons of Seared stone from Tinker's Construct mod (a black version of stone made from a regular stone or cobblestone) and set a magical circle in front of my tower. The circle would be propably a slightly remade version of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqwBpMTn_l0#t=1388). I also want to build some runic sings on walls or just throw some random japanese or latin words written in galactic alphabet to make building and coding the meaning easier.
So, to make these runes I need some information about Gensokyo's elements and/or spellcard sings. I know that Patche uses 5 elements (earth, fire, wind, water, wood as in Touhou Soccer 2 game), Cirno uses Ice element, which is a combination of water and wind element but I know I'm missing something since I've seen a lot of magic circles related to octagram... I'm thinking if I can count as elements things like love or chaos... Ugh, I'll propably just find a full spellcard list and take the first part of each one (ie. Fantasy Sign, Love Sing, Curse Sing etc.)...
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Have fun working with a 974-gon then. Touhou isn't anywhere near as heavily-structured and constraint as some RPG.
The elements Patchouli uses are based on the days of the week (Sun - Moon - Fire - Water - Wood - Metal - Earth) and have nothing to do with any inherent sort of element system within Touhou. There isn't anything that convenient.
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But still a characters spellcards are mostly rounded up to few sings (and I'm counting the ones with 'Sign' in it's name) and there's a lot of them. It totally works with Thaumcraft and Ars Magica where you either use aspects like Saxum (Earth) to create special blocks or you use specific items in an order to create a spell. Thaumcraft have loke 50 different aspects and Ars Magica's spell crafting potential are almost limitless (you can't make a spell that has more than 13 effects including it's shape). Lots of stuff to choose from.
On another note: If Alice's using color magic and China's spellcards are mostly Colorful Signs then they're using similiar kind of magic? And does Marisa's Master Spark also count as a color magic due to the white beam?
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None of those are really "color magic". Alice just fires danmaku in various colors and isn't actually said to perform any specific magic besides puppetry. Meiling uses chi, which happens to glow in rainbow colors in the Touhouverse. Marisa using light magic is bound to be rainbow-colored as well, but none of this is really similar to each other besides being colorful. The names of the spell cards don't necessarily mean they're related, which is why I'm saying it's a bit troublesome to group them like that. Half of the spell cards that exist don't use "sign" in their name's identifier, either, so you'd run into trouble there too.
Not that I want to stop you or anything, I'm just saying that grouping spells together like you're talking about would be very difficult if you want to remain accurate to the source material.
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I know that Patche uses 5 elements (earth, fire, wind, water, wood as in Touhou Soccer 2 game),
That is not the 5 elements. The 5 elements are: fire, water, earth, wood, and metal. This is pretty much the standard 5 elements in Eastern philosophy.
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Hello, this is my first post. I was wondering about something that I couldn't find anywhere.
My question is, is the "Sparta Remix" based off of "U.N. Owen Was Her?"? "Sparta Remix" seems to repeat the tune and so does "U.N. Owen Was Her?", but they are heard best in certain areas, although there are a few differences.
Thank you for reading and have a good day!
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My question is, is the "Sparta Remix" based off of "U.N. Owen Was Her?"? "Sparta Remix" seems to repeat the tune and so does "U.N. Owen Was Her?", but they are heard best in certain areas, although there are a few differences.
They have nothing to do with each other. (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sparta-remix)
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- Anyone care to expl how copyright stuff about popular touhou doujinshi/ fan animation work out in Japan?
Assuming you have the mean plus the resource to finalize your fan project, can anyone just create some good quality fan animation and sell it like that at some official touhou convention irrespectively of whether or not you have the authorization of ZUN?
- Anyone knows the name of both the singers singing this touhou song? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98snHMxW4Vs
- When was the Jizou Statue made in Japan?
- Since phantoms aren't youkai as per say (base on Reimu words in CoLA...), then what about evil spirit?
- Does the stamina/energy of those immortal being (the one who consume the Hourai elixir) replenish to full when they die and resurrect?
Let suppose Mokou die to hunger somehow (in the event that she can even die), when she resurrect does her stamina also replenish or does the Hourai elixir prevent her from dying from something like extreme hunger?
- Which vampire trait legend has already been confirmed in touhou? - Are Remilia and Flandre dead being for example or....
Assuming that a Vampire can give birth with another vampire is their a specific name for this new entity? - a bit like Dhampir (human and vampire)
- Has there been any explanation given provided in touhou canon as for why Yukari hibernate in winter?
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- Has there been any explanation given provided in touhou canon as for why Yukari hibernate in winter?
Closest thing I can think of is a line in PMiSS that says she used to be a lot more active. Poor girl is growing old :(
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- Since ghosts aren't youkai as per say (base on Reimu words in CoLA...), then what about half-ghost/phantom/evil spirit?
Half-ghosts seem to be considered half-youkai, going by Youmu's classification in IN. I don't really know why.
Phantoms and evil spirits are types of ghost, being former humans that died, so if ghosts aren't youkai, they aren't either.
- Does the stamina/energy of those immortal being (the one who consume the Hourai elixir) replenish to full when they die and resurrect?
Let suppose Mokou die to hunger somehow (in the event that she can even die), when she resurrect does her stamina also replenish or does the Hourai elixir prevent her from dying from something like extreme hunger?
They go back to being exactly as they were when they drunk the Elixir, IIRC, so yes. Mokou constantly starves herself to death (or at least near it), since she doesn't really care.
- Which vampire trait legend has already been confirmed in touhou? - Are Remilia and Flandre dead being for example or....
The only "traditional" vampire traits they have are burning under the sun, being unable to cross moving water, turning into bats and mist, and sleeping in coffins. It is unknown if they are undead or not.
Assuming that a Vampire can give birth with another vampire is their a specific name for this new entity? - a bit like Dhampir (human and vampire)
That's unknown, it was never discussed in canon.
- Has there been any explanation given provided in touhou canon as for why Yukari hibernate in winter?
Nope. Akyuu provides a theory that she spends the time she says she's sleeping/hibernating on the outside world, but it's just a theory.
I have a question; in Yuyuko and Yukari's profile for PCB, it's said that Yuyuko was the one that thinned the barrier between the Netherworld and Gensokyo, later requesting Yukari's help in closing it. Youmu and Yukari's profile on PMiSS, though, say that it was Yukari's doing. Do we consider this a retcon or just a "Akyuu lol" moment? 'Cause, many many things that are heavily implied as being Yukari's doing (the creation of the barrier, the original spellcards rules, etc) don't directly state her as being the instigator, yet in this case in particular, two different articles (maybe more, I'm not sure) explicitly point her as the culprit. Maybe this alone should indicate that she's not the culprit, but...
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- Since ghosts aren't youkai as per say (base on Reimu words in CoLA...), then what about half-ghost/phantom/evil spirit?
Which words? That might have been translation weirdness.
A ghost isn't the same thing as a dead person - a spirit that forms a physical body with odd powers and continues to walk around like they were alive is definitely a youkai (in the sense of "strange creature/event"), and Yuyuko has even had her youkai-ness backed up by game mechanics.
Phantoms seem to be one of those borderline cases where they're technically youkai but also a natural occurence. That said, specific phantoms like Murasa would definitely be considered youkai in the standard sense (note that yuurei is probably the most generic term Japanese has for anything ghostly, so phantoms are a broad category).
As a half-phantom, Youmu is half-youkai.
- Which vampire trait legend has already been confirmed in touhou? - Are Remilia and Flandre dead being for example or....
Their strength, speed, endurance, regeneration and raw magical energy are all among the highest of any youkai species, and they can turn into bats (one or many). However their normal youkai weaknesses are amplified, so they take even more damage from light/holy attacks than normal. They're not vulnerable to crosses, but they can't go out in the rain, sunlight burns them, and due to being identified with oni they can be repelled by random stuff like roast soybeans. Also Remilia sleeps in a coffin but claims she doesn't, so she seems to find it embarassing.
Assuming that a Vampire can give birth with another vampire is their a specific name for this new entity? - a bit like Dhampir (human and vampire)
There's no information on this, but we have some on jiangshi (sometimes called "hopping vampires" or "Chinese vampires") - Yoshika's bite can turn other people into jiangshi, but they'll soon revert to normal as long as they don't die.
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Nope. Akyuu provides a theory that she spends the time she says she's sleeping/hibernating on the outside world, but it's just a theory.
On the one hand, in Curiosities of Lotus Asia, Yukari remains active in the winter after being called over by Reimu, which confuses everyone why she's still around. This could imply the whole hibernation thing is just a lie she tells everyone and she's actually awake during this time.
On the other hand, there's a scene in either Forbidden Scrollery or WaHH (or maybe Oriental Sacred Place? Pretty sure it was one of the newer mangas, though. Prolly WaHH given that author's love of cameos) that shows her sleeping during the winter. Of course, just because she's asleep during the winter doesn't mean she was hibernating. Maybe she was just caught "on camera" (you the manga reader, that is) while she happened to be napping or during bed time.
...so yea.
I have a question; in Yuyuko and Yukari's profile for PCB, it's said that Yuyuko was the one that thinned the barrier between the Netherworld and Gensokyo, later requesting Yukari's help in closing it. Youmu and Yukari's profile on PMiSS, though, say that it was Yukari's doing. Do we consider this a retcon or just a "Akyuu lol" moment? 'Cause, many many things that are heavily implied as being Yukari's doing (the creation of the barrier, the original spellcards rules, etc) don't directly state her as being the instigator, yet in this case in particular, two different articles (maybe more, I'm not sure) explicitly point her as the culprit. Maybe this alone should indicate that she's not the culprit, but...
Doesn't Akyuu say "It must have been this youkai", implying Akyuu jumped to that conclusion? Though it does make more sense to me if it was Yukari but the profiles far as I know are pretty explicit that it's Yuyuko (far as I know. I can't read Japanese well).
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Actually guys, when vampires suck the blood of humans they're said to turn into zombies and then disintegrate when the sun rises. At least, this is what's stated in PMiSS, and it's unknown as to whether or not this actually happens, or if it's just Akyuu's recollection. Seeing as the supply of humans for the vampires are provided to them, it isn't very likely that we'll ever confirm this statement.
Re: Busting the barrier to the Netherworld: This was explicitly Yuyuko's doing. Akyuu assumes it's Yukari because she can't think of anyone else, but Yuyuko herself weakened it. She was able to weaken it, but not restore it. I played with the idea of Yuyuko asking Yukari but it never really says so and Yukari does say Yuyuko did it herself.
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How did the word "Inchling" came to be? The wiki uses that as Shinmyoumaru's species name.
And are biwa and lute interchangeable?
Thanks in advance!
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http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Shinmyoumaru_Sukuna#Her_Species
Personally I'm more in favor of Clarste's recent point, that リリパット (i.e. Lilliput) was used in a recent FS chapter. Any mention of a useable english title that also alludes to her species should take priority over the fairly limited democratic option.
And not really. A biwa is a lute, but a lute is incredibly general, spanning a wide range of instruments.
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Anyone knows if the last chap of WoHH (chap. 20) is the last one for this manga?
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It's the last for this volume, but the manga isn't just ending. Nothing ending-like even happened.
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What is your opinion on the legality (and also your personal opinion) if someone:
-Translate and reprint Doujin books or mini manga from Pixiv/Danbooru and sell it without permission
-Compile musics from different Touhou circles into 1 cd and sell it without permission
-Compile Zun games and other Touhou stuffs like PV into CDs and sell it without permission
-Making a business model out of said acts, selling stuffs at a profit while slapping their brand on it without proper acknowledgement from source artist?
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That's copyright infringement and also straight up rude. :c
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You would be a terrible person and in many circumstances it would be illegal.
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A ghost isn't the same thing as a dead person - a spirit that forms a physical body with odd powers and continues to walk around like they were alive is definitely a youkai (in the sense of "strange creature/event"), and Yuyuko has even had her youkai-ness backed up by game mechanics.
A ghost is a dead person, they are one and the same. Youkai is a super umbrella that covers pretty much everything super natural and that includes humans that become ghosts. If you aren't human in the strictest sense, then you are likely a youkai in its broadest definition.
However their normal youkai weaknesses are amplified, so they take even more damage from light/holy attacks than normal.
I am pretty sure Remilia takes no extra damage from holy water.
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A ghost is a dead person, they are one and the same.
I'm not sure in what sense you mean by this, because this is demonstrably untrue. A "dead person" is the corpse itself. A ghost is the active spirit of a dead person. They are not one and the same. Also, not sure the spirits of dead people qualify as youkai. I think they are rather a class of supernatural beings unto themselves.
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When did this pair start to spread in the fan community - Alice x Marisa and/or Patchouli x Marisa?
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Pretty much immediately with all of them after EoSD and PCB respectively. But Touhou wasn't super driven until PCB, so if you're talking about actual volume of fanworks I'd have to say after PCB. However, we don't have the same tools for distribution back then that we have now, so we don't really have a whole lot of early examples of fanworks.
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I'm not sure in what sense you mean by this, because this is demonstrably untrue. A "dead person" is the corpse itself. A ghost is the active spirit of a dead person. They are not one and the same. Also, not sure the spirits of dead people qualify as youkai. I think they are rather a class of supernatural beings unto themselves.
This was my mistake, I misread the person's response. I thought they said something different. But I disagree, it does qualify as youkai. Youkai by its broadest definition pretty much means strange beings. Or do you mean more specific sub category of youkai, like Tengu?
For instance Murasa is a youkai and she's a ghost. Same deal with Yuyuko.
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Oh, I was just under the impression ghosts were a separate thing from youkai. Don't know why, as the very broadest definition includes them. Never mind then!
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I could be wrong here, but I don't believe they are. That is as far as I know.
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Yeah, no, ghosts are youkai. For whatever reason I was confusing them with something else.
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Ghosts are pretty definitely youkai. It's a very broad term.
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No idea if this is a correct thread for that, but I don't know of a more suitable place to ask this in, so forgive me:
Does Paletweb ship to Russia? (or countries other than US/Germany/etc in general) I think it's in the "Europe Area", but since it's so vague, I can't tell if that's the right one.
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Does Yorihime's sword (in "sword cage" form or otherwise) have the ability to nullify peoples' powers?
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Pardon me,
Are there any conventions that have a prominent Touhou Project fanbase, such as AWA?
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What is the origin of the phrase 君は実に馬鹿だな, associated with Nazrin (see Drake's signature or title)?
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What is the origin of the phrase 君は実に馬鹿だな, associated with Nazrin (see Drake's signature or title)?
The origin is from Doraemon, where the protagonist is told off out of disgust when he tries to get away by replacing a broken lightbulb with a ball.
It was a meme for a while on 2ch, then may have spread even more after vocaloid Teto`s song of the same name.
The relation to Nazrin may be that she once says 「ばっかだなぁ、君は」 which is very similar in context, and so a fan made her say the meme instead in his work.
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From what I can gather, it's comes from Doraemon.
Doraemon says this when Nobita tries to cover up a broken light bulb with a baseball.
Searching withきみはじつにばかだな might work better.
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Does Yorihime's sword (in "sword cage" form or otherwise) have the ability to nullify peoples' powers?
The answer is probably not, in my opinion.
She does seem to nullify/paralyze with her sword, however as she invokes other gods and uses their power through the sword as well, it can be said it is the god`s power to do so.
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Pardon me,
Are there any conventions that have a prominent Touhou Project fanbase, such as AWA?
Most of the major North American conventions have a substantial Touhou presence; Otakuthon in particular has a Touhou-dedicated weekend-long subevent. Beyond that, you could try any of AnimeExpo, Otakon, AnimeCentral, A-Kon, AnimeBoston, SakuraCon, AnimeNorth, or Fanime for large crowds of people.
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Pardon me. (and thank you for the response earlier)
Are there any active translators on this website?
And/or is there a need for such?
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There are a few users on this site that do translations in various capacities, though we as a site don't offer any sort of translation services and I don't think there's any kind of dedicated translation thread.
For your second question, with the sheer volume of Touhou content, I'd say there's always a need for translators. :V
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Last year, one of the Touhou Wiki's character profile for Hijiri Byakuren used to state that she let a boat of monks died (whether accidentally or purposely was not disclosed)
...this does not seems to have any citation from anywhere (as far as I know), and there were various forums (wrongly) used it as one of the basis for her character's interpretation
...but recently, it seems like I can't find that line anywhere on any Wiki anymore... seems like it has been removed
Does anyone know if that line still holds water, and the citation behind it?
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It's in Murasa's UFO profile. Definitely true, every bit of it.
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It just says that the people who came with her were flung into the sea, though.
Whether the people were safe or not isn't really mentioned anywhere.
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Oh, right. It also doesn't say who the people were, only that there was one monk that's obviously Byakuren.
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There were other humans besides Byakuren. It's debated as to whether or not the other people drowned, which is where the controversy lies.
(I'm personally of the stance that they died, to note. Moreover it would have likely been Byakuren's intention from the start, given the outcome.)
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I don't know if anyone has pointed this out but this is just a random thought I came up with,
But has anyone else noticed that Hopeless Masquerade's Spell Card System is breaking the rules of spell cards? Let me explain
Here's what the touhou wiki says about spell card
However, the user may only cast the spell that was specified by the spell card until the trance ends, limiting its overall usefulness.
OK so in Hopeless Masquerade , the character calls the spell , uses it , and then normally attack and then use the spell again which contradicts with the rule of spell cards (it disatifies and satisfies me at the same time though , you wouldnt want mamizou to cast that tori spell with bunches of twats coming of the gate a bunch of time now would you? )
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Not really, you described mostly regular use. The spell is declared and then it's used. There aren't any other spells in-between, and once that spell is finished, you don't use it anymore. Using various physical attacks and danmaku isn't the same thing as a spell card (although it's fairly ambiguous what the actual threshold is).
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Thank you for the reply.
Pardon me:
What is the best way to identify a series verbally (to a English speaker)?
By numbering, by Japanese title, by subtitle, or translated title?
For abbreviations for titles (i.e. EoSD), do people say ee-oh-es-dee, or simply like Scarlet or Scarlet Devil?
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Subtitle and/or acronym. Perfect Cherry Blossom or Pee-see-bee, etc.
The exceptions would be 12.3, it has no easy subtitle so it's just called Hisoutensoku or Soku, and 12.8, which is called Fairy Wars or Great Fairy Wars. 12.5 is called Double Spoiler.
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On HM spellcards, a similar system was in IaMP, but with a few differences, like you could use the spellcard a few times within the time limit after declaring it, but you can declare only once a round. As Drake said, it's not technically breaking the rules since you can only use one spellcard at a time anyway, and normal moves and skills aren't spellcards.
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Last year, one of the Touhou Wiki's character profile for Hijiri Byakuren used to state that she let a boat of monks died (whether accidentally or purposely was not disclosed)
...this does not seems to have any citation from anywhere (as far as I know), and there were various forums (wrongly) used it as one of the basis for her character's interpretation
...but recently, it seems like I can't find that line anywhere on any Wiki anymore... seems like it has been removed
Does anyone know if that line still holds water, and the citation behind it?
I think I can elaborate a bit more on this since there's always been some disagreement on the subject. Please pardon my blatant bias.
The entry in which Byakuren let a boat of monks die was put in roughly 2-3 years ago and edited out a little over 1 year ago. The 2-3 year old edit used Murasa's profile backstory as a source, and some parts of fandom has been using it as a source for the above since UFO was released, though it clashes with what other fans think. In the end, Murasa's backstory really just doesn't elaborate much on intent, foreknowledge, loyalty, betrayal, or whatever on the subject. It just sort of happens and it is what it is. The 2-3 year old edit did. Since the whole thing doesn't really doesn't definitively point one way or another, it was edited to better reflect the more neutral angle of Murasa's profile backstory.
Some of the stuff in the 2-3 year old edit also included some minor but related loose personality strokes which were counterintuitive to the above as well as happenings with her in UFO/the character's profile in SoPM/a line or two from her dialogue in SoPM. That was tightened a bit, too.
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The answer is probably not, in my opinion.
She does seem to nullify/paralyze with her sword, however as she invokes other gods and uses their power through the sword as well, it can be said it is the god`s power to do so.
Well that's what I meant. But it seems like the sword itself could have been created by Gion's power, with the cage being just another way of using it. Reimu was able to channel three gods at once, after all.
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I'm aware of ZUN's "answer" from AWA, but...
How could the Moriya Shrine possibly not have gotten involved in Hopeless Masquerade?!
I just can't think of any explanation that doesn't leave their inaction seeming like something out of a bad fanfiction. They couldn't have just stopped caring about getting faith when it would be easiest to do, and even if they knew it was actually an incident that'd just be more reason to send Sanae, not less. Any speculation from previous games/SoPM/fanwank would be much appreciated.
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Because the whole of HM was a farce. The "faith" that each faction got was not actual belief in the religion, it was just popularity gained from the fights. The humans weren't actually wanting to convert to some religion, they just needed some excitement. The religious war provided that excitement. This was speculated early on, but was outright confirmed in FS.
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I'm aware of ZUN's "answer" from AWA, but...
How could the Moriya Shrine possibly not have gotten involved in Hopeless Masquerade?!
I just can't think of any explanation that doesn't leave their inaction seeming like something out of a bad fanfiction. They couldn't have just stopped caring about getting faith when it would be easiest to do, and even if they knew it was actually an incident that'd just be more reason to send Sanae, not less. Any speculation from previous games/SoPM/fanwank would be much appreciated.
Don`t know if its canon and if you read it, thus spoiler alert?
In Touhou Ibarakasen, it is mentioned that Sanae didn`t notice that there was a war going on.
Reimu had noticed because her ?stick? (forget English name) reacted to something (Kokoro?) but Sanae`s did not. (Maybe due to spiritual power differences)
Kanako tells her after HM was solved that she did notice to Kanako, but meddling in incidents (the war was just a incident to her) isn`t their job so they stood out. (They usually cause it, not solve it, lol)
She also said that she believed that sort of action wouldn`t increase faith/followers, and would rather fight other Shinto sects than other religions, speaking of which, (in?)famous Reimu already joined as a Shinto candidate in the war.
Moriya Shrine in Ibarakasen tries to increase faith by other means (use of technology).
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Don`t know if its canon and if you read it
Wild and Horned Hermit is canon, yes.
In Touhou Ibarakasen, it is mentioned that Sanae didn`t notice that there was a war going on.
Reimu had noticed because her ?stick? (forget English name) reacted to something (Kokoro?) but Sanae`s did not. (Maybe due to spiritual power differences)
You got that wrong, the event that Sanae didn't notice was the incident from DDC. The Miracle Mallet made Reimu's gohei act weird, but not Sanae's oonusa, which's why she didn't notice anything unusual.
The rest you said is right, though. As Kanako says here (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_ibarakasen_wild_and_horned_hermit/v04/c019/11.html), she doesn't think fighting other religions will win them any workshippers (not really because it was an incident, although she does say that incident solution isn't their main business).
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Kanako explains herself in WAHH. Basically she knew it wasn't a good source of long-term faith, which is supported by what happened: people were just betting on the matches and didn't care about the religions. So Kanako figured it was a waste of time and instead focused on further negotiations with the tengu about letting people pass through their territory, which is way more important. And she actually succeeded.
Also, resolving incidents is apparently not one of Sanae's duties, and Kanako actually discourages that when she can. Which just makes sense. I mean, it's not like Reimu's shrine is successful either.
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Is Youmu afraid of ghosts, darkness, dares, etc due to the effects of looking at the true Moon?. And in Ten Desires she tought she was a hermit. Is this also due to the effects of the true Moon?
I never understood any of this :s.
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The effects of the real moon were temporary. Youmu is just afraid of cliche spooks for comedic effect and to show how kidlike she is. The Ten Desires thing you're referring to is the parallel endings, which all have silliness like that.
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Why Cirno sometimes holds a sword made from watermelon?
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Why Cirno sometimes holds a sword made from watermelon?
It`s a series of fan fiction and/or memes.
To try to put it short, there is a ice cream (more like sherbet) product in Japan called (lit.) Watermelon Bar.
It`s a watermelon sherbet flavored popsicle, looking like a acute (22 degrees to be exact) watermelon slice with chocolate seeds.
It is a popular snack/dessert in Japan during the summer, since watermelon and popsicles (derived from shaved ice) are a summer thing. (seasonal reference)
It started appearing in memes with the start of Z Gundam, where (spoiler alert?) Z Gundam in one of the last episodes, kamikazes in Waverider mode into Sirocco`s G.O. In that scene, the red pointed tip of the mobile suit with flying specks of debris resembled a watermelon bar very well.
Since Cirno (and Kaito from Vocaloid) both are fanon-ed to love popsicles, it was natural before artists started drawing them with watermelon bars.
After a while, watermelon bars started to become joke weapons because we all love jokes and swords and combinations.
(In Japanese, watermelon bar is スイカバー which is like Excalibur エクスカリバー, so some memes started with them wielding エクスイカバー which is a horrible pun/mash. It is accompanied by another horrible pun, ?wielded by a idiot who should be loved,? where love in this usage is pronounced aisu, which sounds like ice.)
But the largest impact associating Cirno with a watermelon blade is most likely the Advent Cirno series by circle One Night Stand, main artist Yoshitaka Ushiki, who is more known now as the author of Dream Eater Merry. It is a very popular/known Touhou doujin. A. Cirno in Touhoumon is from the Advent Cirno series.
In those series, Cirno is loosely given concepts of Cloud in Advent Children, one of them being the fusion swords.
However, to be Cirno-fied, all the swords consisting of the Fusion swords (which are a total of six), are all popsicle related.
She often uses the main edge of the fusion swords and the inner sword the most, the main edge sword being watermelon bar motif, so making it iconic to her.
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Is anywhere said how fast can Aya move? I'm pretty sure she can't go absurdly fast like Sonic the Hedgehog or Flash or that Road Runner... or can she?
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Remilia can fly the entire circumference of the moon (10,917 km/6783.51 miles) in a few seconds (she does this in SSiB during her battle with Yorihime), and Marisa states that Aya's probably faster than Remilia, so... she's probably very VERY fast.
But no absolute values are ever given, so you can think what you want.
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Is anywhere said how fast can Aya move? I'm pretty sure she can't go absurdly fast like Sonic the Hedgehog or Flash or that Road Runner... or can she?
mild digression
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze_uxxFJTvE
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Two words: Illusionary Dominance.
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Wow I just realize that Remilia is really amazingly supernaturally ridiculously fast as Hypervelocity Stars if she has indeed manage to cover the entire circumference of the whole Moon in a few sec. (according to her that it)
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Kanako explains herself in WAHH. Basically she knew it wasn't a good source of long-term faith, which is supported by what happened: people were just betting on the matches and didn't care about the religions. So Kanako figured it was a waste of time and instead focused on further negotiations with the tengu about letting people pass through their territory, which is way more important. And she actually succeeded.
Also, resolving incidents is apparently not one of Sanae's duties, and Kanako actually discourages that when she can. Which just makes sense. I mean, it's not like Reimu's shrine is successful either.
Ohhh. Wow. Hadn't read WaHH 19 yet. It addresses every issue I had perfectly. Thanks, guys!
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To add; is it mentioned somewhere how fast (or far) Youmu can move during her "sword charge"?
How is "200 Yojana in 1 Slash" as a measurement? How far exactly would that be?
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To add; is it mentioned somewhere how fast (or far) Youmu can move during her "sword charge"?
How is "200 Yojana in 1 Slash" as a measurement? How far exactly would that be?
For how far I don't know, need to look up but if it's for how fast see below.
If I'm corr I think there was a doujinshi that try to calculate the speed (in a excessive way if you want my opinion). Basically it's about 1/4 to 1/3? the speed of light! WHAT???
But if I can recommend not to interpret spell cards too literally if not you may overheat your brain.
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200 Yojana is more or less 1600 miles/2574,95 km, so even if a slash took an hour to perform it'd still be really goddamn fast.
Although I'm with Biakmon here in believing that you shouldn't take spellcard names at face value.
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To add; is it mentioned somewhere how fast (or far) Youmu can move during her "sword charge"?
How is "200 Yojana in 1 Slash" as a measurement? How far exactly would that be?
The 200 Yojana is originally derived from Yuyuko`s garden being that size. 200 square Yojana.
Determining speed is now up to you. I gave up calculations.
I don`t know if this was the doujin they were talking about, but it is available here: http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=7463
under the tag, 幻想郷大運動会～二百由旬の一閃～
first episode:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/b87mma.jpg)
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To add; is it mentioned somewhere how fast (or far) Youmu can move during her "sword charge"?
How is "200 Yojana in 1 Slash" as a measurement? How far exactly would that be?
The length of one yojana historically varies, but Maribel once gives an estimate of seven kilometers, so it's reasonable to assume that ZUN also uses that estimate. So, 200 yojana is about 1400km.
That being said, 200 yojana in one flash/slash essentially boils down to some arbitrary fraction of the speed of light, depending on how fast you think Youmu's slash itself is. However, at that point you have to propose how fast she is, in order to figure out how fast she is, so it's pretty redundant to try and get anything more accurate than "arbitrary fraction of the speed of light".
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mild digression
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze_uxxFJTvE
I watched that...
Just try to mod Sonic to move at mach 1 speed. You either hit first hard thing before you manage to proceed what happened or you'll glitch through the map. Propably both.
Also if we say that few seconds fits between 2 or 10 seconds (using mostly common sense here) the Remilia's top speed is somewhere between 5458,5 km/s or 1091,7 km/s. Mach 1 is 0,34029 km/s. Thus Remilia is said to be able to move at least 3208 times faster than sound... either that or I went full retard with calculations.
For Youmu I couldn't find how fast a sword swing is (yahoo anwsers gives 90mph here (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130727162506AAQpmsM)) so... dunno
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For how far I don't know, need to look up but if it's for how fast see below.
If I'm corr I think there was a doujinshi that try to calculate the speed (in a excessive way if you want my opinion). Basically it's about 1/4 to 1/3? the speed of light! WHAT???
A yojana is approximately 8 miles. 1,600 miles in a single slash is pretty damn fast, but not faster than the speed of light.
e. No new replies warning? I ought to learn to refresh.
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Also if we say that few seconds fits between 2 or 10 seconds (using mostly common sense here) the Remilia's top speed is somewhere between 5458,5 km/s or 1091,7 km/s. Mach 1 is 0,34029 km/s. Thus Remilia is said to be able to move at least 3208 times faster than sound... either that or I went full retard with calculations.
That's correct. Which's why I'm reasonably sure Zun didn't research the actual size of the moon when he wrote Remilia's "The moon is pretty tiny, so I just flew around it once" line.
I'm considering it canon anyhow :V
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You could also go the extra mile and consider that just as the distance between Gensokyo and the Lunar Capital was basically the power of imagination, the size of the moon could be as well, even if you took Remilia absolutely seriously.
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If distances are variable like that, then the top speed of the characters can follow the same logic, no?
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Which's why I'm reasonably sure Zun didn't research the actual size of the moon when he wrote Remilia's "The moon is pretty tiny, so I just flew around it once" line.
I'm sure that's one of the things he DIDN'T write. Something like this sounds like it was thrown in by Aki★Eda, just like Toyohime's Fan'o'Doom and Marisa's two Master Sparks. There's a reason some fans take SSiB with a grain of salt - ZUN only wrote the basic story for it, unlike later mangas where he went into great detail, including cameos. I remember from some interview that ZUN himself was amused at some of the artist's decisions in SSiB.
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Although he signed off on SSiB, including artist contributions. I think it could be argued that this makes SSiB canon.
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They were inside/within the Lunar Capital's barrier/border at that point, weren't they? The real length of the normal moon might be an apple compared to the inside moon's length's orange in that case, possibly.
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That's what I was getting at with the comparison to the distance between Gensokyo and the Capital.
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Do shikigami *have* to be beasts, or can anyone in theory become Yukari's servant?
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AFAIK, anything can be turned into a shikigami by someone who knows how to "install" the appropriate "software" in it.
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Do shikigami *have* to be beasts, or can anyone in theory become Yukari's servant?
As implied by Sagus, there are explicit notes in CoLA and CiLR that show ZUN thinks about shikigami (at least in Touhou) like you would a computer. A shikigami does exactly what you tell it to do, and only that. I think it's somewhat likely that ZUN uses mostly animals as shikigami because of this notion of perfect obedience, but because computers are also thought of as shikigami there isn't much reason to say that shikigami can only be animals.
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Is not that a shikigami MUST do what you tell it to (Ran can disobey Yukari, for example), it's just that it's in their best interest to do so. If they perfectly obey their master, they seem to gain a significant power boost, going by the interview with Yukari on BAiJR and Chen's profile in PMiSS. Kinda seems to me that being a shikigami can also be seem as an agreement between two beings, where one submit itself to another in exchange of power.
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Yeah, sorry, I only tried to get that across to highlight the intentional link to computers.
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Mamizou uses a more classic paper (leaf?) shinigami style as her danmaku but I guess they come in various animal shapes so you might think that they involve contracting with animal spirits at some point. Either way though, it shows that Yukari's shikigami aren't the only model for how it works.
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Cool, thanks for all the answers.
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Yukari asks Aya if she'd like to be her shikigami, too, so Tengu can become them as well (if you don't count Tengu as beasts, already, which they probably don't count as)
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Yukari asks Aya if she'd like to be her shikigami, too, so Tengu can become them as well (if you don't count Tengu as beasts, already, which they probably don't count as)
Tengu and beast youkai have different entries in PMiSS, and their behaviour and general characteristics don't overlap at all, so it's safe to say that tengu have no relation to beast youkai.
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What are the most cliche newcomer character favorites in fandoms by country?
Couple of years back, in Japan, Udonge and Inaba were treated as newcomer bait. (I don`t know what the trend is now, I guess Imaizumi and the lolis now...?)
I wonder how Chinese fans feel about Hong.
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What are the most cliche newcomer character favorites in fandoms by country?
Flandre is probably up there, due to the McRolled/Ran Ran Ruu vids (plus "Death Waltz").
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I don't know if I on the right thread but since this is a misc question and its about touhou anyway I'mma post it here , anyway random question , What software do you use to record touhou replay at a minimum 55 fps, I'm using fraps and its laging the shit out of danmakufu so I want some help here.
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You probably won't be able to get 60fps in-game and also be able to record at 60fps, then. You can record at 30fps and set the game to half the draw rate in custom.exe, this will reduce lag and still give you something "good enough".
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You probably won't be able to get 60fps in-game and also be able to record at 60fps, then. You can record at 30fps and set the game to half the draw rate in custom.exe, this will reduce lag and still give you something "good enough".
Thanks drake ^^ , danmakufu keeps fucking chugging and keep and making fast bullets look slower _ _ll
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Im using Mirilis Action, but I set it so recording uses only 1 core of my CPU. Still I can't record all of my games but for something small like touho it's perfect.
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I only used FRAPS back then, but now I use OBS (http://obsproject.com/).
It's a much better program for me. FRAPS doesn't lag here, but occasionally I still get lap spikes, regardless of the game. OBS records my stuff perfectly without lag (at least the emulators I tried so far). But it should work good with Danmakufu too.
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I just saw something amazing and I wander if it's more difficult "even possible" according to you guys to finish any/all of the touhou games on lunatic mode without dying AND by just completely dodging the bullets (no attacks or bombs) than playing normally?
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9leysnL42qg
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC8QzSR2qLU
Is that even possible to make Reimu move so fast?
Do they both have to show the numbers of spell cards they going to use b4 each danmaku fight?
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Not shooting (and under some definitions not bombing) are called pacifist runs. Generally you wouldn't be able to humanly do what you're describing, since besides being even more difficult than Lunatic no-miss no-bomb (for which we have an entire thread for praising) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15845.0.html), the enemies would potentially throw near-impossible walls just because you never killed them, which is the main problem in pacifist runs to begin with.
Also, for this stupid fast speed, play ReimuC in SA and stop shooting.
Spell cards: Yes, as far as the rules go. IaMP is probably the most accurate in this regard, actually, since you show the opponent which two spells you will use beforehand, in battle you only use that spell until it's defeated, and the duel ends when both of your spells are defeated. In the main STGs you don't really see that for both parties, since the player's "remaining spell cards" are more like their lives and the bombs / spell cards being used by the player are more like the individual patterns within each. It's even more difficult to match that "cannot repeat a spell" rule considering the players do nothing but repeat the same card over and over. But obviously this is just an issue of gameplay/setting segregation.
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What does Double Dealing Character stands for? I know the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil refers to Remilia, Perfect Cherry Blossom refers to the Sagyou Ayakashi's bloom, Imperishable Night refers to the endless night and etc, etc, etc. But I can't see a relation between the game title and the plot of the game in DDC?
Does anyone knows?
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Not really sure if it's the right place to ask this, but it's something that has been tingling my nerd curiosity for a long time; so if any of you has more info on it, whould be much appreciated:
WTF is this?!!?: http://pds2.egloos.com/pds/1/200608/19/59/b0002859_1956473.jpg (http://pds2.egloos.com/pds/1/200608/19/59/b0002859_1956473.jpg)
Apparently it's from the touhou last word collection and was originaly posted on Zun's touhou tumblr: http://toho.tumblr.com/page/3 (http://toho.tumblr.com/page/3)
All the legend says is "Yumefu - Genso Hitoe" ("Dream sign - Unified Illusion" according to Google translate), this spell card is never seen or mentionned anywhere else as far as i know...
But i mean, just look at it! The amount of questions this simple picture spring to mind is endless:
Reimu oppening a Sukima like Yukari?? Could she always do that? Why does she never use it in battle as it's been established that in the touhou universe, control over boundaries is a form of Supreme power? (is this the reason she claims that she never fight at her best in official works?)
And is this the outside world on the other side of the rift? Does that mean Reimu can leave Gensokyo whenever she please even tough she said otherwise in official works (she lied?) and can she control who and what goes in and out like Yukari then?!
Why are electric plugs peering out of her sukima instead of arms? Is hers different from those of Yukari, and in what respect then??
Does that suggest a deeper connection between Reimu and Yukari than just being both symbolically associated with borders? (if you assume that Yukari created the Hakurei border, wich is likely, then maybe, because Reimu lives in the hakurei shrine, the powers of yukari have slowly "rubbed off" on her?) Or maybe Yukari is the hidden god of the Hakurei shrine as it's the shrine that is the lynchpin of the Boundary of Gensoky after all?
And what does this spell card do exactly? Hummm... it has a pretty Ominous name at any rate, looking at it i get the feeling it's Reimu's secret ultimate technique...
Note: this is not the only time reimu is seen doing such a thing in official material! http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/f/f2/Top030927.jpg (http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/f/f2/Top030927.jpg)
But since this other illustration was just a bonus Zun Drew as a thanks for getting 1 million hits on his website, i whouldn't take it as seriously... But still...
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What does Double Dealing Character stands for? I know the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil refers to Remilia, Perfect Cherry Blossom refers to the Sagyou Ayakashi's bloom, Imperishable Night refers to the endless night and etc, etc, etc. But I can't see a relation between the game title and the plot of the game in DDC?
Does anyone knows?
"Double dealing" means "the practice of pretending to do or think one thing while really doing or thinking something different : dishonest or deceptive behavior". Going by this, the title probably refers to Seija tricking Shinmyoumaru into using the mallet for her own personal reasons while stating to Sukuna that it'd help her get revenge on the youkai that banished the kobito to another world (which is a lie that Seija told her).
I really wouldn't consider these two images that are not related to the games at all (other than featuring Reimu) as indicative of anything, really.
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Reimu oppening a Sukima like Yukari?? Could she always do that? Why does she never use it in battle as it's been established that in the touhou universe, control over boundaries is a form of Supreme power? (is this the reason she claims that she never fight at her best in official works?)
She could always do that and has used it in battle, hasn't she? Several of Reimu's spell cards used boundary manipulation (including teleportation, which would probably be the same as gapping around) and in CoLA, Reimu weakens the boundary herself in order to get Yukari's attention. I don't know/recall where she got that power (although I imagine fan theory could be Yukari taught her it if you're of the "Yukari raised Reimu but Reimu doesn't remember" camp. Or maybe it's a Hakurei inherited thing. Or both), but presumably it's a required ability in order for her to do her job as a shrine maiden that's supposed to keep an eye on the border.
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Reimu never used anything that looked like Yukari's gaps, though.
Then again, it's unlikely that Yukari's ability is the only form of magic that involves manipulating boundaries.
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Can Reimu manipulate both barrier and boundaries (to the degree at which Yukari does her boundaries thing)?
I thought Reimu use her barrier in some way to be able to let say "gap/teleport" herself from one side of the game to another...
What's the relation between barrier and boundaries?
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Can Reimu manipulate both barrier and boundaries (to the degree at which Yukari does her boundaries thing)?
I thought Reimu use her barrier in some way to be able to let say "gap/teleport" herself from one side of the game to another...
As far as we know, no, she can't manipulate boundaries like Yukari does, or at least not to the extent that Yukari can.
I mean, if she could, I guess it'd be something worthy enough of note to have been mentioned in her profiles, right?
What's the relation between barrier and boundaries?
Well, boundaries seem to be defined as the thing that separates one concept from the other, or rather, the limit between things (for example, Yukari manipulated the border between night and day in the end of IaMP, creating a stage where it's both day and night at the same time). I would say that a barrier is a specific type of boundary; an "artificial boundary" (as oposed to the natural boundaries that are found in the world, like the horizon [boundary between earth and sky], for instance) created to purposefully separate two things (like the Hakurei barrier being specifically created to separate fantasy from reality).
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I rarely pay attention to this type of thing but did Sanae dye her hair green or what?
I mean I can understand for others since they not really human but what about Sanae.
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Well, she isn't really fully human, what with being a descendant of Suwako and being a living god on her own right.
But yeah, as far as we know she just has natural green hair. It isn't discussed anywhere if she dyes it or not.
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I'm having trouble keeping track of the Taoist locations. What/which are all the different Mausoleums and Halls?
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Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum is where Miko awakened in 10D, which is located under Myouren Temple Cemetery. Then Miko created Senkai, a secret world for Taoists, and built Divine Spirit Mausoleum there, which serves as Taoist temple.
That said, I still have a theory that Hall of Dreams was moved by HM (it's too bright to be a cave, and people there would make little sense being there unless it was outside), but there's no proof either way.
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From what I know about Koishi, memory of her will disappear from one's mind when she leaves his/her sight (for too long?), so the only way to know that she exists is having Satori tell you about her. Still, even if you see Koishi multiple times afterwards, you'll always think it's the first time you've seen her in person, right?
I assume Satori isn't affected by this, but are Rin and Utsuho affected as well?
I hope you understand what I'm saying...
Thanks in advance!
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It seems like it's quite possible to remember Koishi in some cases. For example, Marisa brings her up in SoPM talk, and remembers seeing her multiple times. It's safe to assume that Satori's pets can notice and remember her as well.
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I've seen a lot of guys wearing white fundoshi and having white bag with kanji written on it over their head in many Touhou PVs. Is that some kind of japanese way to show background characters?
Why Tenshi is shown as a masochist? It's just fanon, because people need a SM fanatic?
WHY PEOPLE DRAWING FLANDRE'S WING CRYSTALS MAKE THEM PRISMATIC? [/rage]
Does Youmu's phantom half do something besides flying around?
I've read somewhere that there are 2 Udonge's (http://wallpoper.com/images/00/37/76/65/touhou-moon_00377665.jpg). Anyone can explain what's with that?
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Sin sacks? To be honest, I don't know if any one has any idea where they come from. They are just there if they need some NPCs or just pervs.
I think Tenshi's mascochist comes from that she is bit too eager for getting into fights, asking people to beat her up.
Because they are easier to draw them? Besides, all except her original art shows her crystals being prism shaped rather than those dagger-shaped ones.
In battle, it can do stuff like shoot danmaku and one of Youmu's fighting game spellcards is turning it into a clone of her. Otherwise, dunno.
Pretty much, Reisen used to be Watatsuki sister's pet before she fled from the Moon. After that, they adopted another lunar rabbit and named her Reisen as well.
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I've seen a lot of guys wearing white fundoshi and having white bag with kanji written on it over their head in many Touhou PVs. Is that some kind of japanese way to show background characters?
These guys are known as Sinsacks (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Sinsack).
Why Tenshi is shown as a masochist? It's just fanon, because people need a SM fanatic?
It's from game dialogue, blown waaay out of proportion.
WHY PEOPLE DRAWING FLANDRE'S WING CRYSTALS MAKE THEM PRISMATIC? [/rage]
I have no idea what this question means.
Does Youmu's phantom half do something besides flying around?
Apparently can be used as a weapon, as seen in IN.
I've read somewhere that there are 2 Udonge's (http://wallpoper.com/images/00/37/76/65/touhou-moon_00377665.jpg). Anyone can explain what's with that?
Believe this (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Udonge_Tree) might explain it.
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I've read somewhere that there are 2 Udonge's (http://wallpoper.com/images/00/37/76/65/touhou-moon_00377665.jpg). Anyone can explain what's with that?
The Imperishable Night character was originally called Reisen (in katakana), but Eirin gave her the name Reisen Udongein Inaba (in kanji) to better fit in on Earth. There's another, short-haired, moon rabbit in Silent Sinner in Blue, Cage in Lunatic Runagate and Inaba of the Moon & Inaba of the Earth - we don't know her original name, but the moon princesses named her Reisen (in katakana) after the original Reisen.
Reisen Udongein Inaba is sometimes called Udonge for short. "Reisen II" has never been called Udonge.
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Huge mass of text.
Nevermind I'm stupid. (Or maybe not because it resolved itself.)
Carry on.
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WHY PEOPLE DRAWING FLANDRE'S WING CRYSTALS MAKE THEM PRISMATIC?
I meant there the colors, not shape (stupid me trying to sound cool using words that I don't quite catch the meaning). I mean, look at this:
(http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111222032013/touhou/images/c/c9/FlandreProfile.png)
RANDOMLY GOOGLE PICTURE (http://konachan.com/image/806dedb28cd7486c6e6f24055dcd8e32/Konachan.com%20-%2047418%20flandre_scarlet%20red%20touhou.jpg)
Since when Flandre's wing crystal suddenly change color and one of them (for each wing) becomes red?
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Since the person who drew the picture wanted them to have those colors.
It's fan art, dude. People will interpret the characters as they wish. Maybe they thought that color scheme was better. Maybe they wanted to try different colors on her. Maybe they didn't use a reference. Ask each individual artist for their reasons, 'cause sure as hell there ain't a unifying one : /
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Personally I've always been a fan of calling the second Reisen "Raysen" instead. It conveys the change in spelling while also indicating that it's not written like a Japanese name. Plus it lets you distinguish them in text without having to do stupid things like "Reisen II" which can also be misleading and inaccurate.
Incidentally, in case this wasn't clear, the implication with the moon princess naming her Raysen is that she's a replacement pet. They think of the moon rabbits as rabbits, so naturally they think nothing of owning them and naming them. The old rabbit ran away so she got a new one and named it the same.
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Why Tenshi is shown as a masochist? It's just fanon, because people need a SM fanatic?
She's taunting people into fighting her. Basically, she needs a reason to start a fight, which led to the fandom portraying her as... You know where I'm getting at...
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What Kaguya abilities means - Manipulation of eternity and the instantaneous?
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She possesses the ability to manipulate eternity and the instantaneous.
As eternity refers to a world with no history, it is also a world where change is eternally unknown.
No matter how much you may try to bring about change in such a world, it is futile in a world where time has essentially stopped.
It is believed that Eientei suddenly appeared in human history and began to experience the passage of time because she undid the effects of her eternity magic.
Under the effects of that magic, Eientei would probably have never appeared in the human world, forever remaining hidden in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost.
However, a perpetual world denies any sort of change.
She may have lived for a very long time without having changed at all.
Her other ability regarding the instantaneous is complementary to her manipulation of eternity and allows control over extremely short time durations.
It allows her to act just using aggregates of instants so short as to be imperceptible to human beings.
That time interval is composed of instants, so it cannot be perceived by normal humans, even though time progresses normally.
Using this time, she can have multiple parallel histories at once.
As both of these abilities are abilities to manipulate time, they far surpass what normal humans are capable of.
Pretty much means her timehax is, like, ten thousand times stronger than Sakuya's.
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As usual it's possible that Akyuu is going off false information or just making stuff up, but there's a few places we've seen Kaguya use her power:
- Assisting in the creation of the Hourai Elixir, which makes people "eternal".
- (Previously) hiding Eientei from the world and making it a Moon-like realm where things don't age or decay.
- Preventing a bonsai udonge from blooming (Kaguya says that once she sees it sprouting jewels despite her attempts, she can consider herself fully naturalised to Earth).
- Breaking the Imperishable Night spell.
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Yeah, this is an instance of Akyuu being quite accurate, more or less.
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Come on guuuuys when Akyuu is wrong or exaggerating it's blatantly obvious because it's outright contradict elsewhere in canon. There is nothing contradicting Akyuu's info on Kaguya's ability anywhere else, so there really isn't reason to think she's making things up.
She's not Aya, ffs :V
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Far as I can tell, most of the known falsehoods or suspect statements from Akyuu begin with some sort of mini-disclaimer, typically something like "It is said" (though some of those end up being correct, anyways) The stuff where she doesn't begin with "It is said" are usually correct, one major exception being Heaven being full. Far as I can tell, Akyuu's nice enough to put in those disclaimers for things she isn't sure about (mostly stuff that Yukari told her, apparently, probably because she doesn't trust Yukari. A lot of the "It is said" stuff is stuff that only Yukari would know or bother talking about). She didn't include "It is said" for Heaven being full because Akyuu presumably trusted the Ministry of Right and Wrong's word.
......well, those are my own theories, at least.
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Far as I can tell, most of the known falsehoods or suspect statements from Akyuu begin with some sort of mini-disclaimer, typically something like "It is said" (though some of those end up being correct, anyways) The stuff where she doesn't begin with "It is said" are usually correct, one major exception being Heaven being full. Far as I can tell, Akyuu's nice enough to put in those disclaimers for things she isn't sure about (mostly stuff that Yukari told her, apparently, probably because she doesn't trust Yukari. A lot of the "It is said" stuff is stuff that only Yukari would know or bother talking about). She didn't include "It is said" for Heaven being full because Akyuu presumably trusted the Ministry of Right and Wrong's word.
......well, those are my own theories, at least.
I agree, yeah.
Also, at heart, she is writting a book to inform humans on how to defend themselves against beings more powerful than they are. If she was as unreliable about the habits and powers of youkai as everyone likes to say she is, I don't think the villagers would've let her live for 9 reincarnations. Or at least have a feast everytime she's reborn.
At most, she might be exaggerating the strength of some of the youkai (just because she says some youkai asked her to do it doesn't mean she did, and even if that was the case, doing so does still fit the purpose of the book, seeing as building them up as undefeatable monstrosities will make humans avoid them), but so far we have no solid examples of her describing a youkai as being far stronger than they actually are.
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Ok, as a Touhou fangame developer (using Danmakufu) I have a few questions regarding ZUN's established guidelines towards derivative games (which I HAVE read btw).
First:
I remember reading that ZUN fordids people to use game data in their game works and that they should make their own assets. This is the reason that Concealed the Conclusion had completely original game assets, including music, graphics, and sound effects. However, The Last Comer and Mystical Power Plant both use very obvious sound effects from the official games. This puzzles me, as there are no other instances of ZUN's game data present within the game (that I know of). Like CtC, the games use original graphics, music, and many sound effects. Does this mean that the clause forbiding the use of game data does not apply to sound effects or are the makers of TLC and MPP simply ignoring this rule as their games are not for profit?
Second:
I am aware that ZUN is not ok with developers selling derivative Touhou games on services such as Steam and the Xbox Live Marketplace. However, do his guidelines forbid ANY for-profit digital distribution? For example, what if I were to sell a Touhou fangame on a personal website directly without using any sort of online store. Assuming the work does not contain any copyrighted material and it followed the rest of ZUN's guidelines, would that be possible? From reading his guidelines, I was initially under the impression that any for-profit distribution of Touhou derivative material outside of "traditional doujin channels" was forbidden without special permission. I'm only making sure that this is the case because he made a point to single out Steam and the Xbox Live Marketplace in the guidelines IIRC.
Third:
If special permission is indeed required for the above, how likely do you all suppose it would be for an English-speaking Westerner such as myself to get such permission? Is it even something worth bothering to try?
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As questions if this nature have come up a lot, I think maybe this (http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/1682) ought to be copy-pasted in its own TARC thread and stickied or something.
Apart from that, yeah, in all likelihood TLC and MPP are simply ignoring the guidelines. Seems more believable than ZUN granting them a personal exception anyway.
As far as contacting ZUN goes, well, you might wanna try his Twitter? He seems to respond to folks there. That, or the handy contact form (https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFBiWldmOUlCYWpWZm9IWFAxVmJpU0E6MQ) he posted in the guidelines post from his blog.
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Does anyone knows how to extract .DAT files from Touhou games (especifically Portrait Images)? I've downloaded every toolkit and tried million of times but: or it doesn't extract anything or the extracted files contains no images at all. ??? ???
So please, can anyone tell how to do it, give me a quick guide or something? Thanks.
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I have read those expanded guidelines before but I must have forgot the clause requiring ANY sale of Touhou derivative works to have ZUN's permission. That makes my other questions irrelevant as I'll likely find out if I ever contact him.
Does anyone knows how to extract .DAT files from Touhou games (especifically Portrait Images)? I've downloaded every toolkit and tried million of times but: or it doesn't extract anything or the extracted files contains no images at all. ??? ???
So please, can anyone tell how to do it, give me a quick guide or something? Thanks.
There are tools to do it yourself, yes, but Drake has already gone through the trouble of uploading Touhou image extractions here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,197.0.html). You might find it easier to just download them from there.
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I have read those expanded guidelines before but I must have forgot the clause requiring ANY sale of Touhou derivative works to have ZUN's permission. That makes my other questions irrelevant as I'll likely find out if I ever contact him.
He does specify "commercial" works and channels, i.e., you're more than an independent person selling something you made through your personal blog or something.
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There are tools to do it yourself, yes, but Drake has already gone through the trouble of uploading Touhou image extractions here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,197.0.html). You might find it easier to just download them from there.
Ok, that makes it much easier. Thank you very Much!
But one of the problems I have is that I really want to extract the Profile Images from DDC and it seems the post doesn't have it yet :(; that's why I wanted to learn how to do it and because the image quality of the portraits that already exist in the internet don't match the quality that are presented in the game.
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Edited the Welcome to TARC sticky wrt ZUN's policies.
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Ok, that makes it much easier. Thank you very Much!
But one of the problems I have is that I really want to extract the Profile Images from DDC and it seems the post doesn't have it yet :(; that's why I wanted to learn how to do it and because the image quality of the portraits that already exist in the internet don't match the quality that are presented in the game.
I believe Touhou Toolkit is what you're looking for. You can find that and other game modification tools here: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications
Disclaimer: I have never used the program myself so I'm not 100% sure that it's what you want. But it's likely that what you want is somewhere on that page at least.
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Is that lake near the Moriya Shrine that we see in Stage 6 of Mountain of Faith intended to be Lake Suwa?
Youkai Mountain is a single mountain, right? The Yatsugatake Mountain range are said to be what remained of the legendary Yatsugatake, so it stands to reason that before Sakuyahime tore it down, it was only a single mountain, and since Youkai Mountain is the Yatsugatake from legend... also, it's the only mountain in Gensokyo, right?
I ask because I was thinking about Gensokyo's size, and these two particular features of its geography are quite large (Lake Suwa alone has 13 km? in area, and the Yatsugatake Mountain range is 30 km in length, so Youkai Mountain has to be big enough to be able to be broken down into all these peaks, not to mention big enough to house Lake Suwa). I originally thought that Gensokyo had at most 15 km? or something in area, but this seems way to small now...
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I believe Touhou Toolkit is what you're looking for. You can find that and other game modification tools here: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications
But I've already told that I used every toolkit I found in internet and none them worked for me. The only thing I want to know is how to use them properly, with a guide or a video or anyting... Or if someone could hint me how to use the Touhou Toolkit because a tried to extract with it and it didn't worked for me at least. Thanks.
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I apologize if this has been asked before (and I can't imagine that it hasn't been, but I can't find it), but what exactly do and don't we know about the timeframe of Touhou? Specifically the events of the games and manga?
I have an impression that the games are supposed to take place roughly in real time based on the date of their release, but when I thought about it I realized I had no idea where that impression came from, so I may have just made it up. Is there an intent that Reimu and Marisa have aged 11 years between EoSD and DDC? In fact, do we have any references to people aging physically ever in Gensokyo? Is it safe to assume that the games even take place in chronological order? I suppose none of this really actually makes much of a difference the way Touhou is set up, but it would be interesting to know for context if there are canon answers for any of it.
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A good indicator of the passage time is the newspaper's articles written by Aya and Hatate. For example, from them, you can see that Yoshika appeared on Myouren Temple's graveyard (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Bunbunmaru_Newspaper_2) in 2009, but TD proper only happened in 2011 (going by the fact that both Miko (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Bunbunmaru_Newspaper_8)and Seiga's (http://=http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Bunbunmaru_Newspaper_4) articles only happen that year).
The games do roughly happen as they're released, which can also be seem from the articles (for instance, the collapse of the Hakurei Shrine caused by Tenshi (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Symposium_of_Post-mysticism/Bunbunmaru_Newspaper_12) happened in 2008, the same year SWR was released).
The games unquestionably happen in chronological order; after all, the events of the games from MoF to TD are directly tied, and even before that, there were references to previous games (the teams in IN [Reimu didn't meet Yukari until PCB, so IN couldn't have happened before it], for instance). The manga also show time passing, and comment on the most recent incidents (like Reimu and Marisa discussign the events of DDC with Sanae in WaHH, and Sanae stating that they hadn't even entered in the previous incident [the events of HM] to Kanako).
Finally, all games happen in different seasons, which's of course another indication of time passing.
As for whether or not Reimu and Marisa age... IIRC ZUN said he doesn't plan on aging them, so even if 20+ years pass they'd probably remain in the same vague "late teens - early twenties" range. However, we do know that people age in Gensokyo; after all, Akyuu has aged and died nine times and all. It's likely that zunart wouldn't show age differences, anyway.
Although Reimu did seem to have finally grow visible breats in DDC :V
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The seasons and precedence of events all match, with minor variations between release date and game timeframe. The newspaper articles that reference game events also match up in season and year. PoFV also implies WWII was during the last sexagenary cycle, which matches that sixty years after 1945 is PoFV's release.
Fairy Wars isn't in chronological order, though, having happened before SWR.
This should probably help: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
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Hmm, fair enough. Thank you. So I did get that from somewhere, I just didn't remember where. I need to start just flipping through Symposium Of Post-Mysticism every time I have a question, because the answer seems to invariably turn out to be in there and I just forgot.
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But I've already told that I used every toolkit I found in internet and none them worked for me. The only thing I want to know is how to use them properly, with a guide or a video or anyting... Or if someone could hint me how to use the Touhou Toolkit because a tried to extract with it and it didn't worked for me at least. Thanks.
thtk doesn't entirely work on th14 anyway. Here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/z0luuc6b66rgiah/face.zip) are the enemy portraits.
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But I've already told that I used every toolkit I found in internet and none them worked for me. The only thing I want to know is how to use them properly, with a guide or a video or anyting... Or if someone could hint me how to use the Touhou Toolkit because a tried to extract with it and it didn't worked for me at least. Thanks.
Some one made a GUI for it IIRC. I don't remember where it is though. It might be on the wiki page too. That's all I know though.
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thtk doesn't entirely work on th14 anyway. Here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/z0luuc6b66rgiah/face.zip) are the enemy portraits.
because paged
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Some one made a GUI for it IIRC. I don't remember where it is though. It might be on the wiki page too. That's all I know though.
I think the GUI is even on that wiki page.
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thtk doesn't entirely work on th14 anyway. Here (http://www.mediafire.com/download/z0luuc6b66rgiah/face.zip) are the enemy portraits.
Wow Thanks! Those portraits were the ones I was looking for! Thank you very much!
But I have aquestion concerning the Character Portraits of Touhou 14 specifically. Why the ones that appear in the game, the ones with replaceable face when extracted, have much better quality than the full body portraits? Is it possible to find, make or get the full body portraits with that awesome quality? Thanks in advance!.
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You can't. The full-body portraits are the spell card cut-ins, and there aren't any different versions of them in the game. If you play the game at higher res you can see that it still uses the same one as with lower res.
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Regarding Flandre's "kyu" power:
Does it destroy things, regardless of size, absolutely and completely in a single blast, leaving behind absolutely no soul, pieces, blood drops, shards, fragments, etc.?
I'm getting tormented by a frightening fanboy because I did not portray her power that way in one of my fan fictions... That's just only one of the reasons he's pestering me, though...
Seriously, can't I have my own creative input?!
Thanks in advance!
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That is not what her ability does. I'm not sure where he would get the idea that her ability eradicates everything, including even souls. All it does is crush / blow stuff up, physically. Like, the only time where she actually uses her ability, on the meteorite, it explodes into a gazillion pieces. Remilia even shows Aya a piece of it.
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Now that I think of it, she really did only use that ability once in canon... Guess that means we cannot be sure about the "size factor", meaning whether that ability will make something, like, the Death Star explode entirely instantly or causing a portion of it to blow up. He also had an issue with me when she only made someone's arm blow up and not the whole body (said person is about three meters tall)...
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Size probably doesn't matter at all for her ability, seeing as it's based on destroying the point of most pressure of the object. Regardless of size, there's going to be one at the core of any solid thing, I reckon.
Maybe you can say that she can specify which "eye" goes to her hand? Like, "the point of most pressure in a person's arm" instead of just "the point of most pressure in a person"? There's no real basis in canon for this, but eh. Her abiltiy has a ton of unknowns.
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You can't. The full-body portraits are the spell card cut-ins, and there aren't any different versions of them in the game. If you play the game at higher res you can see that it still uses the same one as with lower res.
Ouu, wall that's to bad but anyway Thanks for the images!!, I really appreciate it! :D (I really like ZUN art).
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When did Flandre destroy that meteorite? - when its was still well above in the sky or when it was nearly impact pt
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In the sky, but it was close enough that they could tell it was heading for the SDM, and enough that Remilia found a fragment of it.
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Is there a complete map of Gensokyo out there with all the different locations (including the PC-98 - Mugenkan, etc...)?
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I think the most accurate map of Gensokyo to date is this minecraft one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqwBpMTn_l0). They use some creative license, but the general location of things is pretty accurate, IIRC.
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I think the most accurate map of Gensokyo to date is this minecraft one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqwBpMTn_l0). They use some creative license (the Sanzu River circle Gensokyo for some reason, for one), but the general location of things is pretty accurate, IIRC.
I had already watched that video when it first came out but you sure the locations they use are accurate?
Any flat map out there also...? I already know some of them out there with good illustration but in general they did not include PC-98 one.
- Anyone has info when the next chap of touhou manga may come out?
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Actually Danbooru had a couple maps of Gensokyo.
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They all lack the PC-98 features Biakmon wanted, though. Except for this one, (http://www.donmai.us/posts/257017?tags=gensokyo+map) which's kinda confusing, but maybe it suits his needs.
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Yeah, been a while since I last checked.
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What the difference between the Lunarian and the moon rabbits? I mean apart from the presumably "rabbit ears"...
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Lunarians are humans that fled the to the Moon a long, long time ago to escape the impurity of the Earth. Some of them are implied to be high ranking gods.
Moon rabbits are beings that live in the moon. It's unclear if they're youkai like the rabbits from Earth (created from humanity's imagination) or if they were made by the lunarians themselves. At any rate, the lunarians consider them to be little more than tools, and use them to do manual labor (like farming and cleaning), as pets, and as basic infantry.
Interesting to note is that the lunarians themselves don't consider the moon rabbits to be youkai. Reisen (the one with floppy ears from SSiB, not the Reisen that lives in Eientei) wasn't even familiar with the term "youkai", IIRC
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Is there a thread about "Umineko no Naku Koro ni" games/manga storyline here on this site?
Actually I have some questions concerning that horror mystery/fantasy game but if there already a thread about it's then better for me to check out what they have b4 asking my questions.
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Youkai are weak to spiritual attacks, right? But what exactly is a spiritual attack? Is it possible to kill a youkai with one?
Is there a thread about "Umineko no Naku Koro ni" games/manga storyline here on this site?
Actually I have some questions concerning that horror mystery/fantasy game but if there already a thread about it's then better for me to check out what they have b4 asking my questions.
If there isn't one in Sara's Audio-Visual Import-Overflow Retail (or Akyuu's Arcade I guess, wherever VNs end up here) then you can always make one yourself and ask. (Though if your question's just 'whodunnit?' then PM me and I'll tell you ;))
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This is sort of an embarrassing question (normally I don't like "that kind" of fanstuff), but is the "Tsurupettan" song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfUe2eckPFQ) based off of an existing Touhou theme, or is it an original melody? I notice the Touhou main menu theme in the beginning, but is there any other theme incorporated? I'm just curious for some reason. I don't even like the song that much.
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This is sort of an embarrassing question (normally I don't like "that kind" of fanstuff), but is the "Tsurupettan" song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfUe2eckPFQ) based off of an existing Touhou theme, or is it an original melody? I notice the Touhou main menu theme in the beginning, but is there any other theme incorporated? I'm just curious for some reason. I don't even like the song that much.
It's based off Kaguya's theme, Flight of the Bamboo Cutter ~ Lunatic Princess, according to Silver Forest's own site (http://www.silver--forest.com/best2.htm). I can't hear it either though.
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- Title theme
- Really fast Lunatic Princess chorus
- Talking
- Highly-arranged Lunatic Princess opening
- More chorus
- Eirin Eirin part
- etc
Youkai are weak to spiritual attacks, right? But what exactly is a spiritual attack? Is it possible to kill a youkai with one?
"Spiritual" in this sense are things like traditions, adhering to your word, your convictions and rationale, your pride, that sort of stuff. Youkai are in essence these alone, as they are really "just" made up explanations for things. If you can remove what makes a youkai what it is, then its existence is threatened.
Say for example, you have a youkai that says they're really good at hide-and-seek and pride themselves on it. Then you beat them. This might as well be more "damaging" to them than if you had ripped out their heart and burned them alive.
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"Seishin" can also mean mental or psychological.
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Is there a reliable way to actually purchase music from circles/bands for somebody that doesn't really know Japanese? I've recently gotten really into touhou fan music butt don't really know where to be looking to get the albums. I guess as an example, I was looking for re:takes (http://www.iosysos.com/cd/tohogtbest/) and a couple other minami albums earlier, but couldn't really find my way around the distribution links. Afraid I'll get lost halfway through purchasing and end up paying but with no idea how to redeem, if I was getting a download vs physical copy, etc.
Some specifics which probably would help;
-Looking for legal downloads basically, not really in the need for physical copies but whatever works. I'd like to be supporting the people who make this cool music, instead of freeloading it when I should be paying.
-Most of what I tend to look for is under IOSYS it seems, so how to get their music would be the most useful if it'd be different per circle, but I've run into the same problem while looking at other groups, like The TOWER from Cytokine, and Lovelight from...whoever did Lovelight.
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Is there a reliable way to actually purchase music from circles/bands for somebody that doesn't really know Japanese? I've recently gotten really into touhou fan music butt don't really know where to be looking to get the albums. I guess as an example, I was looking for re:takes (http://www.iosysos.com/cd/tohogtbest/) and a couple other minami albums earlier, but couldn't really find my way around the distribution links. Afraid I'll get lost halfway through purchasing and end up paying but with no idea how to redeem, if I was getting a download vs physical copy, etc.
Some specifics which probably would help;
-Looking for legal downloads basically, not really in the need for physical copies but whatever works. I'd like to be supporting the people who make this cool music, instead of freeloading it when I should be paying.
-Most of what I tend to look for is under IOSYS it seems, so how to get their music would be the most useful if it'd be different per circle, but I've run into the same problem while looking at other groups, like The TOWER from Cytokine, and Lovelight from...whoever did Lovelight.
Try using N-Forza's service in this thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,566.0.html).
Dunno about digital stuffs, but I'm sure he can take care of that if it's available.
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"Spiritual" in this sense are things like traditions, adhering to your word, your convictions and rationale, your pride, that sort of stuff. Youkai are in essence these alone, as they are really "just" made up explanations for things. If you can remove what makes a youkai what it is, then its existence is threatened.
Say for example, you have a youkai that says they're really good at hide-and-seek and pride themselves on it. Then you beat them. This might as well be more "damaging" to them than if you had ripped out their heart and burned them alive.
Hm, I think I get what you mean. Like, if Kogasa doesn't manage to surprise literally anyone it could actually really hurt her? How would something like that work for a youkai *of* something, like Yuuka being a Flower Youkai?
"Seishin" can also mean mental or psychological.
Ahh, now this actually makes a lot more sense to me. So would something like, say, post-traumatic stress disorder be seriously dangerous to a youkai?
And actually, with all this in mind, would youkai be more vunerable to curses than humans?
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-Most of what I tend to look for is under IOSYS it seems, so how to get their music would be the most useful if it'd be different per circle, but I've run into the same problem while looking at other groups, like The TOWER from Cytokine, and Lovelight from...whoever did Lovelight.
You can probably use Forza's service as mentioned above for the IOSYS albums(or you can order through their shop (http://www.iosysshop.com/), which will ship overseas if you email them), but the Cytokine album is probably too old to be found in stores that sell doujin music, so you'll probably have to wait until it pops up on Yahoo Auctions Japan. Lovelight(which is by Alstroemeria Records) is definitely too old to find in most places, but Bad Apple has been rereleased on a couple of their other albums, if that's why you want it.
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Hm, I think I get what you mean. Like, if Kogasa doesn't manage to surprise literally anyone it could actually really hurt her? How would something like that work for a youkai *of* something, like Yuuka being a Flower Youkai?
Yuuka is not a flower youkai, she's just a youkai that likes flowers and can control them on a basic level
But at any rate, there actually aren't really youkai of things like that other than fairies, who are embodiments of nature; presumably, when the aspect of nature that gave rise to them is destroyed, so are them.
At any rate, a spiritual attack doesn't really have to be linked to the youkai's origin to affect them. It just have to be something meaningful, related to tradition or spirituality.
And yes, not scaring humans does hurt Kogasa; it's how she "feeds", after all. If she doesn't scare anyone, she'll lose her purpose and (presumably) eventually die.
Ahh, now this actually makes a lot more sense to me. So would something like, say, post-traumatic stress disorder be seriously dangerous to a youkai?
And actually, with all this in mind, would youkai be more vunerable to curses than humans?
I don't think youkai can suffer from things like that... their psychology is probably very different from a human's. But if they do, maybe it'd be dangerous? It's not really touched upon anywhere in canon.
And yeah, it stands to reason that they're more vulnerable to curses. Curses are attacks with a meaning behind them, after all.
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You can probably use Forza's service as mentioned above for the IOSYS albums(or you can order through their shop (http://www.iosysshop.com/), which will ship overseas if you email them), but the Cytokine album is probably too old to be found in stores that sell doujin music, so you'll probably have to wait until it pops up on Yahoo Auctions Japan. Lovelight(which is by Alstroemeria Records) is definitely too old to find in most places, but Bad Apple has been rereleased on a couple of their other albums, if that's why you want it.
I just like to packrat music really, I'll find a song here or there on like, youtube or the touhou/gensokyo radio stations, and try to grab a whole album which includes that song, so I can attempt to expand what I listen to from there. Preferably while supporting the creators in some way.
Thanks for the help guys!
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I don't think youkai can suffer from things like that... their psychology is probably very different from a human's. But if they do, maybe it'd be dangerous? It's not really touched upon anywhere in canon.
I think we know enough about youkai psychology to make inferences. It's certainly different from a human's though. As you just mentioned, youkai need a "purpose" in order to live. They need to know why they were born and what they should be doing. Even if it's something as simple as "attack humans", that's a purpose. Once they lose that purpose they die. This is referred to several times in canon, for example Kyouko losing her purpose once science explained echoes, Eiki warning the Prismrivers about having no purpose now that their creator is dead, Shou having no purpose once real tigers were imported, etc. Byakuren's Youkai Buddhism is expressly designed to preach to save purposeless youkai, either through giving them an alternate purpose or simply accepting their own death.
Anyway, that's different from a human's, but also fairly understandable. Humans don't die without a purpose, but they can certainly become depressed or something. Finding "meaning in life" is obviously a thing people try to do, as well as youkai. We're just less vulnerable to it. We don't die from depression.
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Do we know who the character on the disc of the original release of Doll in Pseudo Paradise is? The one with the detached sleeves. She doesn't look like Reimu to me - her hat is too different. Even then, do we have any information about her apart form any hidden clues in the story - which I can't actually find any of.
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She isn't a character. She can't even be certainly said to be the killer in DiPP.
Oh her. Likely similar regardless, she's just some drawing.
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We don't die from depression.
i'm sure many peoples who commited suicide whould beg to differ... if they could.
i still see what you mean of course, it's just that i don't think youkai whould get depressed over that, they just do what they must because they know they need to do it to exist, end of story. Generally they don't seem to really ask themselves much about their own condition compared to humans (a few exceptions like Yukari asides).
on a side note, is it explained anywhere what whould happen exactly to a Youkai who "dies"?
presumably if he loose his purpose he whould vanish completely, but in that case it's quite different to how a human dies (where he becomes a ghost, cross the Sanzu river, see the Yama, then anything goes really! he could be sent to heaven, hell, hakugyokurou, reincarnated, sent back as a Yuurei, amongst other things on a case by case basis.)
but to a youkai who dies "the regular way", what happens? i don't believe loosing purpose is the only way for them to die as many dialogues in the games suggest otherwise.
do they get sort of reincarneted as long as what they represent haven't been explained by logic? (similar to how i imagine a Kami like Kanako cannot truly die as long as they are humans worshipping her?)
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Eiki says to Cirno that if she dies for real (which may become a possibility in the future since she seems to be becoming something more than a normal fairy), she will be judged (from Cirno's main story in PoFV: "If you die, then we will most definitely judge you. At that time, whether you will go to heaven or hell... Well, we don't know that yet"). And I think we can trust the word of one of the Yamas on the subject. So youkai that die most likely simply have their soul judged and are then sent to Heaven, Hell or the Netherworld.
Reincarnation isn't discussed in great detail anywhere in canon. We don't even know if humans can only reincarnate as humans, or if they can come back as animals or something else, IIRC. If the latter is the case, then perhaps a youkai's soul could be reincarnated as something other than a youkai. But we don't really have info on that.
Also, personally, I don't believe that youkai that die by losing their purpose utterly vanishes (as in, their soul is also destroyed); I think that when tthat happens they just die and have their soul sent to the after life as normal. But I can't really recall if there's anything in canon that goes for or against this. The only absolute death that can happen to a youkai that I remember being mentioned in canon is when a youkai is possessed by a vengeful spirit; although she never heard about it happening, Kanako speculates about it in SoPM, saying that, since a youkai's core is it's mind, being possessed like that would completely erase the original youkai and give rise to an entirely new one, whose mind would be the mind of the spirit that possessed them.
Regarding you comment about Kanako, a gods' "death" is indeed losing all their followers. Kanako would go back to being a simple divine spirit/group of divine spirits, Suwako would disappear entirely, and Sanae would become a simple human again.
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Traditionally, Buddhist reincarnation involves ascending or descending in the various tiers of life, based on your karma. Humans are below gods and above youkai. So in that sense proper youkai might get reincarnated into a human while a crappy human might become a youkai. or a bug.
I don't think there's any reason to believe that Touhou is different in this regard. The only reincarnation we've seen is Akyuu, who is clearly a special case.
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Since we don't have a lot of information about spellcards themselves, I was wondering if the first part of a spellcards name is something more than declaration of what kind of magic / ability / danmaku will be used? I think they work as a signature, keeping someone else from stealing the technique, or at least trying...
Or maybe there is some fan theory about spellcards?
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Nope. It is visibly meant to be used as a sort of categorization for the spell card, but even that doesn't have any actual basis in anything. There aren't any actual categories or types of spells, it's just more words that might convey some extra meaning that can't be fit into the spell's actual name. It's all just danmaku in some form anyway, the only thing keeping other people from copying it is the user invoking their abilities or techniques etc to make the spell, that others cannot do. Marisa all throughout GoM makes it clear that she can't copy or even reference many of the spells she writes about.
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On top of that, there are some spell cards that don't have a first part at all.
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Sagus and Clarste:
hmmmm, interesting answers, thanks!
i haven't read Pmiss or Sopm and haven't finished all the games yet, i guess that's really showing here :x
but how the hell do Koishi even work then??
she has no mind, so if the comment by Knanko is to be trusted, you'd think she shouldn't be able to exist at all as a Youkai... that explains why people can't notice or remember her i guess (as she is essentially a Void youkai in this case).
but i don't understand how she can even exist at all in the first place...
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She has a mind. It's just that she closed it in a way that doesn't allow her to access her conscious self. So her subconcious is what drives her around, which's why she's so (lterally) carefree and whimsical. To quote myself from a few pages back (it's a response to a claim that "subconscious" might have meant "unconscious" in the sense of her being something like a coma patient, not the psychological term):
Nah, the slew of Freud references that she and her spellcards have clearly indicates that "subconscious" in this case is being used in the place of "unconscious" (for reasons previously discussed; as cuc said, the original japanese only ever used unconscious), which is used in the Freudian sense of the word. Wikipedia sayz, "Freud was of the opinion that the unconscious mind has a will and purpose of its own that cannot be known to the conscious mind (hence the reason why it is called the "unconscious") and is a repository for socially unacceptable ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions put out of mind by the mechanism of psychological repression"; if we go by this definition, it makes sense that Koishi can still speak. She's not really like a walking coma patient, she's someone whose mind is pure id (that Freud classified as unconscious by definition), caring only about fullfilling whatever desire she has at the moment and not really thinking about anything else.
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Does this belief/purpose thing also apply to underground inhabitants (Oni and stuff or even the Yamas)?
It seems to me that they don't particularly care about being in the surface and just mostly come out for festive stuff but apart from that I can't say...
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As far as we know it applies to everything that could be called "supernatural". Maybe stuff from the afterlife isn't tied to that, and maybe there are ways for youkai to escape it (Gensokyo itself seems to make youkai less dependant on human belief to define their existence, as debated in SoPM), but it's not really discussed, AFAIK.
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Does this belief/purpose thing also apply to underground inhabitants (Oni and stuff or even the Yamas)?
It seems to me that they don't particularly care about being in the surface and just mostly come out for festive stuff but apart from that I can't say...
The "purpose" doesn't have to be deep or complicated. An oni's purpose could very well be "be stronger than people and drink a lot". It's not the same thing as a job. Parsee's purpose is to be jealous of everything, for example.
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I'm sure we're more or less aware of this, but the important bit is that "purpose" isn't something that a youkai takes upon itself, but that the purpose itself is what defines the youkai. Clarste picked two good examples as they illustrate this well; oni, simply put, are legendary figures that are incredibly strong and rambunctious and have some other key characteristics. The being strong and rambunctious part is why an oni is what it is rather than anything else, and if an oni stopped being what an oni is, it would... not be an oni. Likewise, Parsee's purpose is to be the jealous bridge princess, she is defined in part by her adhering to that legend. If she didn't, she wouldn't be that legend anymore.
This is just extrapolated/translated in the Touhou universe into what we see as a youkai going "ok I'm going to do something else", and thereby changing their purpose. I feel inclined to say that if a youkai could define their existence as performing a certain job, then sure that job could be their purpose.
Gensokyo's role in this is just the fact that youkai can "exist" in some capacity without being bound by human imagination conjuring them. Youkai don't actually "exist" in the outside world, their existence and purpose is completely determined by human thought. Gensokyo is just a lens where you can look at these youkai without them being simply concepts, in that they exist as an actual entity.
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agreed with everything being said here.
though if a Youkai could somehow choose its purpose, then it whould be free to do what it wants to do and be what it wants to be at any time; so in other words, it whouldn't be all that different from a human anymore...
maybe that's why in gensokyo Youkai are becoming more human-like than in past legends (especially Tengu and Kappa), as they are getting more and more independent from human there.
this reminds me of the conversation between Yukari and Kasen in Wahh about the Zashiki-warashi,
Kasen said "so you mean all youkai's true purpose is...?" then Yukari interrupted her, but it seems to me she was thinking "all youkai just want to be human"...
isn't being free to choose what you want to be the thing that Youkai jealous us for anyway?
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Hey guys, just a question that I has been pondering for quite a while
Shou, Ichirin, Murasa; in which order did Hijiri meet first?
From the Touhou Wiki, it seems to imply that she meets Murasa first, then Shou last (not very obvious clearly state though), whereas most fanworks seems to show Shou being the first one to meet Hijiri, then Ichrin and finally Murasa.
I have seen 2 different music videos depict Shou being the first one, and a doujin stating the same... whereas canonically, I can't find the proper order of who Hijiri met first (the wiki just constantly use "at a certain point of time" or something like that). What is clear though is that both the Wiki and fanworks seem to depict Ichrin and Unzan being met in the middle of Shou and Murasa
*This question would also makes clear whether Hijiri got the ship first before going onto her salvation pilgrimage... or getting the ship as the ultimate symbol toward near the end of her journey*
http://www.k-a-i-r-o.com/seiren/main.jpg
<Tengukami> Please don't hotlink, use imgur or something.
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Byakuren needed Shou to get youkai to trust her, so she came first, along with Nazrin. It's assumed that Ichirin joined some time after, and then Murasa, because it was only a few decades from Byakuren saving Murasa to Byakuren's sealing.
Also, since you seem to misunderstand this: when Byakuren saved Murasa, she created the ship for Murasa. Murasa didn't follow Byakuren afterwards, Byakuren didn't keep the ship either. The ship only became relevant with Murasa's unsealing.
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I figure this would be the better place to ask, rather than creating a topic in HME for just one question.
Are the cards gained after a battle in SWR/Soku entirely random? Or does fighting with certain characters or stages increase the odds of getting different cards? I'm still missing at least one spell for most characters, some of them up to three, and I just can't seem to get them. I checked both touhouwiki.net and hisouten.koumakan.jp, but neither of them seems to mention anything about how cards are received.
There's only one I really care about right now (World Creation Press, it's annoying to be missing a card for my current main character) but it would be nice to have them all eventually.
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If you use a card frequently in battle, you will get a increased chance of getting the card you used.
Using certain cards will increase odds of getting the card you want.
Something like, using the main 236 skill card will get you alt. 236 skill cards, and using a skill card will get you the spellcard that is the strengthened version of that skill card.
If you have 天地プレス(Heaven and Earth Press), you can use it frequently to get 要石「天地開闢プレス」(Keystone "World Creation Press").
If you don't have Heaven and Earth Press, try using the main 236 skill card frequently.
http://th123.glasscore.net/?%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9A%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E5%85%A5%E6%89%8B%E6%9D%A1%E4%BB%B6
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I see, that is very helpful to know. Heaven and Earth Press was not a part of my main deck, so that must be why I had such bad luck finding World Creation Press.
I swapped it in for a few matches, and before long, I was able to finally find World Creation Press.
(http://i.imgur.com/apBHHGC.png)
Thank you! Now I can start collecting the rest of the missing cards as well.
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Actually Drake, I think the order went like Murasa/Ichirin > Shou.
Though I think Ichirin might be the first one.
The reason is that, at first Byakuren appeared out of nowhere as a youthful monk, implying that she might not have a temple(or it's currently abandoned), and only by then that she started gaining her fame among the people. So people heard of her reputations and then she was sent to subdue Murasa with other monks, that are likely not from her temple.
Ichirin is quite a wild card, since she can be before, between, or after Murasa and Shou. But I think it's weird to get her after Shou. Since she's a youkai-turned human, it would make sense for Byakuren to get her first, as the crew that has the easiest time communicating with the humans.
After a while, Byakuren either created a temple for the Youkai, or used the old temple of Bishamonten. Then she appointed Shou to take care of the temple, along with the help from Nazrin to monitor her. The temple became flocked with Youkai, and some of them might've been seen by the humans, thus leads to their suspicions of her.
Yeah, I love "Journey to the West", so I always picture famous monk with quirky followers to be the traveling kind.
Though I kinda agree with you too. It makes sense for her to leave her temple for a journey when she had Shou to look after it.
But they didn't mention how long it takes for her to finally be trusted by Bishamonten. So it could be within those few decades after Murasa's case. Which is why I said she might be last.
Well, they didn't really give any specific time, so it's quite difficult to clarify it.
And yeah, now that I think about it. It was never mentioned that Murasa and Ichirin followed Byakuren after their respective meeting with her. Or is there?
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Also, since you seem to misunderstand this: when Byakuren saved Murasa, she created the ship for Murasa. Murasa didn't follow Byakuren afterwards, Byakuren didn't keep the ship either. The ship only became relevant with Murasa's unsealing.
Yes, I did know that Byakuren herself create the ship, and I did not mean to imply otherwise (guess the way I phrased thing was a bit messy)... but Murasa did not follow Byakuren after the ship incident... that's new to me since I always have assumed that Murasa tagged along with Hijiri, so her and the ship become part of the traveling group altogether ???
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I was looking for some music to add to my plug.dj playlist and I foung this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pp2ebXT9k).
The thing is that from 0:15 there is a guitar playing looped part from Sonic game... anyone knows maybe where that part is from?
EDIT: I found it... it's from this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFv_vbw6tOY)
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I was looking for some music to add to my plug.dj playlist and I foung this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pp2ebXT9k).
The thing is that from 0:15 there is a guitar playing looped part from Sonic game... anyone knows maybe where that part is from?
EDIT: I found it... it's from this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFv_vbw6tOY)
The album that End of Daylight was on came out around six months before the game was released, so I don't think that it was taken from there. They probably just used the same loop; it seems like the most likely answer.
It was also in a trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCYbmTL_fTM) for Sonic 4: Episode 2, so...
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I was wondering how exactly the fight with Mokou went in canon unless there's no exact information about it. Did she fight only one team? Did each teams somehow fight her between different time spans or did she actually fight everyone at the same time like many fan videos and fanart likes to depict? I assume the latter may be the least likely but after browsing some of the side material and her page, I don't seem to find much on this subject. :3
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It's never clear who fights who in the shooting games.
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I was wondering about the "nature" of magic in Gensokyo, whether it can be considered a "spiritual attack" or merely something connected with the natural world....
Example: Yuyuko is fighting against Reimu, Patchouli and Marisa. A REAL FIGHT, not with danmaku, but with real, lethal attacks.
Reimu launch a barrage of Shinto amulets
Patchouli cast a spell that is cleary elemental, let say Agni Radiance (i guess something like a big blast of fire)
Marisa cast her infamous Master Spark
Against an actual ghost like Yuyuko, i guess the Shinto amulets would be effective, being items imbued with "spiritual" powers, and as such capable of influencing a spirit.
Patchouli attack would be useless, since ghosts simply pass through physical attacks.
But what about Marisa? Since her spell is a purely MAGICAL blast, would it affect Yuyuko or not?
Does MAGIC have a "spiritual" component?
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Touhou ghosts are physical, soooo...
Then again, there doesn't seem to be any purely spiritual beings in Touhou. Even spirits have physical forms.
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I was wondering about the "nature" of magic in Gensokyo, whether it can be considered a "spiritual attack" or merely something connected with the natural world....
Example: Yuyuko is fighting against Reimu, Patchouli and Marisa. A REAL FIGHT, not with danmaku, but with real, lethal attacks.
Reimu launch a barrage of Shinto amulets
Patchouli cast a spell that is cleary elemental, let say Agni Radiance (i guess something like a big blast of fire)
Marisa cast her infamous Master Spark
Against an actual ghost like Yuyuko, i guess the Shinto amulets would be effective, being items imbued with "spiritual" powers, and as such capable of influencing a spirit.
Patchouli attack would be useless, since ghosts simply pass through physical attacks.
But what about Marisa? Since her spell is a purely MAGICAL blast, would it affect Yuyuko or not?
Does MAGIC have a "spiritual" component?
None of this is really the case. Go to the end of last page for discussion on what a spiritual attack is.
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Are weaker youkai also physically stronger (speed, stamina, agility, etc.) than human in general?
For example could u out run them in speed (feet on ground) in a straight line if they are coming at u in the intent to kill...
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Youkai are pretty much all physically stronger than humans, yes.
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Flandre's ability is ability to destroy anything and everything. Or total destruction, depends on translation.
Keine can change history. Or eat it in human form... mmmm tasty
Flandre destroys Remilia's favourite tea cup using her ability...
Can Keine revert the history and save Flan from Remilia's rage?
Or Flandre is doomed and will be locked for another 500 years in her basement?
Find out next time on Touhou Ball Z...
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Keine doesn't literally change the way things happened in history. She just "hides" parts of it, changing the way people percieve it. Like when she ate the human village's history in IN; the human village was still there (Yukari could see it normally), but to the people that didn't know the full history of the place to know which changes to history she made (everyone else in the game, IIRC), there was nothing there. Notice that no one forgot that there was a village there; they just couldn't see it. I think her powers could be described as creating illusions based on alternate history paths (the village example, it was an illusion showing what would've happened if humans never settled in that place)
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I've been wondering if Alice were to have a child would it be born human like she was or born as a magician, and if this could explain born magicians like Patchouli.
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Does magicians in general(Alice, Marisa, Patchouli) possess similar physical abilities as that to human (when they dont use magic to enchant their own capacities) or are they natural stronger/weaker once becoming magician?
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I've been wondering if Alice were to have a child would it be born human like she was or born as a magician, and if this could explain born magicians like Patchouli.
This is never addressed in canon. But the idea that children born out of turned magicians are natural born magicians is a popular theory, IIRC.
Does magicians in general(Alice, Marisa, Patchouli) possess similar physical abilities as that to human (when they dont use magic to enchant their own capacities) or are they natural stronger/weaker once becoming magician?
PMiSS states that their bodies, in general, are very similar to a human's (so they're at least way more frail than other youkai), and Byakuren is stated as being only as strong as a normal human when not using her body strengthening magic in her SoPM profile.
No word on whether or not they can regenerate extremely quick like other youkai, though.
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All the others didn't exactly explain it in the context I was looking for or were downright tl;dr.
So, just how popular is Touhou really, both in Japan and OUT of Japan (ESPECIALLY OUT)? I can grasp its huge popularity on the Internet (duh), ZUN expressed genuine shock at the scope of the western fanbase (Japan's prob still bigger), I myself am from Canada (and I became a Touhou nut just from the end of last summer), but students at my high-school's never heard jack about it, and meanwhile I found a huge argument at the LoL forums about people who don't get the Youmuu ghostblade reference just a few months ago, enough for me to kick off this topic. Which is making me question the true popularity. Is it just that people don't talk openly about Touhou once off their computers (I'm referring to outside Japan) unless they're really really dedicated to it, going to all the conventions? Is it just hard to trace for being doujin? On the other hand, mainstream not getting it (case in point: Cirno News Network) is good news as being mainstream's the last thing Touhou needs. Still, for me it's amazing how the internet completely 110'd my opinion on mainstream (I was mostly neutral until I kept digging through the internet).
<Tengukami> Hi, please post miscellaneous questions such as this in the Misc. Questions thread. Thanks!
P.S. I'm also worried about my own health (you should figure). I just read one of the old editorials from the creator of Ibunshu, and he (probably a he) said he was getting of Touhou, and claimed that life simply goes on. Now I'm worried I will get burned out of Touhou like he did, and I don't want that to happen. Something's wrong in me, I just know it....
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Who is the tallest touhou character? No power use...
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Unclear. The only height comparisons we have are a really old comment by ZUN putting a few characters into broad categories (iirc the tallest category had Sakuya and Yukari), and the sprites from the fighting games, which are subject to "artistic interpretation" as well as little things like posture, perspective, and floating. I believe Utsuho has the tallest sprite though.
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Do you know where to find those comments still Clarste? I'd be interested in reading them.
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(If you want to talk about fanart and such) There's no official specific "height chart", so the heights of the Touhous are mostly headcanon and fan depiction (and there's ZUN's comment, as the person above me mentioned), so it varies depending on who's drawing them. Characters often depicted in fanwork as being tall (from what I've noticed while randomly browsing Danbooru) include Meiling, Yukari, Ran, Eirin, Yuuka, Yuugi, Utsuho, and Byakuren. Really, though, it depends on the artist (like most things in Touhou to be honest. Touhou has some of the most varied fan interpretations I've seen).
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Do you know where to find those comments still Clarste? I'd be interested in reading them.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_E-mails
> ? About how tall is everyone?
> Even a rough idea, like order of height, would be fine.
> I personally wonder about how small the young girls, Cirno, Rumia and the fairies are.
> About 120?130 cm?
I might officially announce an order of height if there's a demand (since I set up a height comparison chart in
the production materials).
However, backing up a bit...generally speaking, they're about as tall as girls in their early teens ['10代前半' means 10 to 14 years old]. A
suitable breakdown would be something like:
Tall: Sakuya, Meiling, Yukari
Fairly Tall: Reimu, Yuyuko, Alice, Letty, Ran
Fairly Short: Marisa, Youmu, Patchouli, Lunasa, Merlin
Short: Remilia, Lyrica, Chen, Cirno, Rumia, Flandre
Basically, if we consider the top level as the height of a human in her late teens or older ['10代後半以降' means 15 years old or above] and the bottom
level as the height of a human in her early teens ['10代前半' ], that puts them in a fairly short class (though none of that
level are human). If their sizes appear to be different on the game screen than given above, it's because of
some mystic force like perspective, so pay it no mind. :-)
Hmm... I wonder if he still sets up height comparison charts in later game production materials.
Sakuya, Meiling, and Yukari and the entire shortest category are easy to picture, but it's so hard for me to think of Yuyuko being shorter than Yukari or Alice and Reimu being taller than Marisa for some reason. I should pay attention to how many fanvids get the height differences like that right.
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Thanks Tiamat.
I'm quite surprised Marisa falls into a separate category than Reimu to be honest.
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Marisa's real short. She's one of those... energetic short person archetypes.
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Which are the characters of Touhou that DOESN'T know how to fly?
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Which are the characters of Touhou that DOESN'T know how to fly?
Game wise, Rika (at least she never is shown being outside her creations) and Rikako (uses a jetpack)
Print works wise, at least Maribel, Renko, Akyuu, Rinnosuke and Kosuzu. Flying isn't that common thing in the print works, so its hard to really say.
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Was it explicitly confirmed that Rinnosuke, Akyuu, and Kosuzu couldn't fly? Although IIRC, the few times we've seen them travel, they walked, so it's probably true (although I think in the print works, most other characters who can fly usually walk as well when it comes to every-day travelling)
Akyuu mentions that everyone can fly in PMiSS, in a comforting tone meant to tell even the average joe that it's no big deal, although that's still not very confirming of anything.
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There was a little scene in FS where they were flying around and Kosuzu was riding behind Marisa on her broom. Which sort of implies that she wouldn't be able to on her own, or at least not as fast.
In general, I think the lack of flying in the manga kind of implies that it's more troublesome than walking and reserved for special occasions. Probably tiring or something. The actual explanation is probably that it's just easier for the artists to picture the scene when people aren't randomly floating for no reason.
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Are most knifes that Sakuya use danmaku or are they real knifes???
Also does danmaku also affect in general the surroundings? I mean what happen if a random danmaku collide with... let say a rock or a human?
I also wanted to have an opinion of the translation where Akyuu call Yukari "sage" in Touhou Gumonshiki ~ Memorizable Gensokyo. Did she really say "sage" of youkai on that page?
- http://www.batoto.net/read/_/70820/touhou-gumonshiki-memorizable-gensokyo_v01_by_gaku-gaku-animal-land/8
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It's made clear in GoM and StB/DS that danmaku can be anything you want; the whole purpose is to have that thing hit the opponent, so what it actually is doesn't matter. Hence you get things like the Minoriko sisters literally throwing sweet potatoes and leaves and rice at you, Komachi and Nazrin throwing actual coins, etc. The physics of danmaku, however, is generally ignored, or at least shoved aside. It can cause some damage like scratches and torn clothing, but it is clearly nonlethal and probably doesn't do much physical damage. Or, it's possible that the combatants are protected magically somehow and the danmaku can affect the surroundings, but this is total speculation, as any spell card duels shown in manga and whatnot don't really do anything.
Sakuya's knives are actual knives, as implied by her using silver knives in particular, mentioned in at least PMiSS and the IN manual. She's also been hinted at to have to throw her knives then go pick them up, which is also sort-of-supported by GoM.
Memorizable Gensokyo: Yes, the term used (妖怪の賢者) is the same "sage" as is used the few times in PMiSS and the once in SA. It's done very explicitly to show that Yukari does indeed edit the Gensokyo Chronicles, and that when you hear "sage", it does mean at least Yukari.
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Thanks for those clarification. Now if I may ask did Zun provide any additional info about Tenma?
Also has it been clarified if whether Tenma is a male or a female? In most fanart I've seen he/she is represent by a female character but I also heard some people say he is male...
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Nope, no details whatsoever.
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Who in Gensokyo know that Eirin and Kaguya are Lunarian? I mean knew about Yukari and Reimu but from what I heard it seems Aya and Patchouli also knows more or less about thier identity...?
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Everyone knows. okay my mistake
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I think only those who were playabel in Imperishable Night as well as their close relations know. I included all the citations I could find on the subject a long time ago here:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eientei
Aya refers to Kaguya as the Princess of the Moon or something in a single panel with a newspaper article in Inaba of the Moon and Earth, but that comic's finer details probably can't really be trusted to be canon, I think. In BAiJR, Aya's mostly confused on the issue and doesn't know if it's real or not. "Let's leave that topic aside, why do you have so many things that relate to the moon?"
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Tys that what I was looking for.
Where did the Watatsuki no Toyohime wiki "back-story" come from?
I don't recall ever reading that in the manga..."Long ago, Toyohime's master, Eirin Yagokoro, explained to Toyohime why spiriting away happened. Everything is decided on probability, and thus possible events will always happen. This is even how the Lunarians came to the Moon in the first place. Toyohime instantly understood her master's lesson, and from then on, was one of the few people who could connect the Moon and the Earth."
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Cage in Lunatic Runagate. If you've read Silent Sinner in Blue without reading CiLR you're missing half the story.
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Why/how did Mokou assume/know that the earthing invaders would encounter Yorihime or even more that Vampire would fight her and there would have been vast difference their power?
I mean does she know Yohirime or something?
"...Well, no matter what sort of plans they have in mind, the difference in power between Yorihime and that vampire with her three stooges is absolute, I think."
Yatsugatake and the Youkai Mountain are one and the same if I understand correctly so does the goddess of immortality (a.k. Iwanagahime) live on top of the youkai mountain found in Gensokyo or the outside world mountain...or could be both?
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That wasn't Mokou talking. She was eavesdropping on a conversation between Kaguya and Eirin. Eirin obviously knows Yorihime and would expect her to confront them because she herself had sent a letter telling her to. Mokou has no idea what's going on, she was just worried that Kaguya would return to the moon and leave her alone again.
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How does Tojiko and/or Futo address Miko?
Does they still call her Crown Prince... and if yes, why not crown princess instead or is that force of habit or maybe a political thing?
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They call her Taishi (太子). This is usually translated as "Crown Prince" but I guess technically you might consider it gender neutral. I believe someone pointed out that there's a historical Korean princess or something who had that title, but obviously that's not Japanese. Whatever the case, there is no obvious female equivalent for them to use instead.
As a translation issue though, the title Taishi is heavily associated with Prince Shoutoku (Shoutoku Taishi) in Japan. They'll be reminded of him, the historical person, every time they hear it. I think emphasizing this contrast between expectations is more important than blithely matching the genders. And who says a woman can't be Prince anyway? Women can be anything they want.
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Never understood why people feel the need to match up their genders or make up some weird excuse for Miko to have transformed from a male into female or whatever. Having a figure who is historically considered male but whoops actually female all along, is history wrong? Is Shoutoku made up? Miko's in Gensokyo now so is she only now considered made up? etc, is the entire point being made.
Anyways yes, as Clarste said, the term is gender-neutral and so what the characters mean could vary, but the people playing are the ones with the notion that Taishi implies male because of Prince Shoutoku.
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For the sake of one of my fanfics I'm writing, did Reisen II ever meet Reisen Udongein or know her? Because my story involves them both teaming up...
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They met in the "Inaba of the Moon, Inaba of the Earth" gag manga. I think the canon of the details of that series is dubious at best (rule of funny), but I think something as basic as them visiting Eientei is reasonable enough. They basically commiserated with each other.
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...Also, who are the "Lunar emissaries" mentioned in the backstories of the moon-related characters? What do they do?
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...Also, who are the "Lunar emissaries" mentioned in the backstories of the moon-related characters? What do they do?
This (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eirin_Yagokoro#Additional_Information) might be of help.
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Can kappa breathe underwater?
I've always assumed they can't, since they're based off turtles.
And did ZUN ever said fanon is canon for the series? My friend claims he did...
Thanks in advance!
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/even moar moons
Suddenly, I'm the most active user on the forums!
Would a moon rabbit still die in space, or can you thank youkai durability for letting a youkai breathe in space? I'm trying to play Moon-rabbits-breathing-in-space for laughs in a story ("AHHHH we're being attacked by bunny-girls who can breathe in space-- AHHHH"), but will canon let that happen?
/god i do too many thought experiments
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Can kappa breathe underwater?
No, but they can hold their breath for several hours. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Kappa)
And did ZUN ever said fanon is canon for the series? My friend claims he did...
You shouldn't have to come up with evidence against his claim. He needs to back it up to begin with, and you shouldn't have to accept it unless he does so.
The answer is a flat-out no, in any case. That's absurd.
What are the capabilities and limits of the Moon rabbits' communication through waves? Because if Yorihime was to be their commander, sending them on a covert mission (my headcanon has elite moon rabbits, the very very few exceptionally brave rabbits), how would she communicate with the operatives? I'm sure Yorihime can't use the ESP waves, right? Wouldn't she need a radio/ Lunarian equivalent of it?
If you want to be lazy there's probably a Lunar native god for that.
Also, would a moon rabbit still die in space, or can you thank youkai durability for letting a youkai breathe in space?
It almost depends on what space you're talking about. There's actual space, and there's the fictitious won't-actually-kill-you space between Gensokyo and the Moon we've encountered in SSiB. In any case I don't think that's been established.
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No, but they can hold their breath for several hours. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Kappa)
It almost depends on what space you're talking about. There's actual space, and there's the fictitious won't-actually-kill-you space between Gensokyo and the Moon we've encountered in SSiB. In any case I don't think that's been established.
Real space, BTW. And screw it, humor's better. Bunny-girls breathing in space, taking the ODIN would be humorous.
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Can Chen turn into cat?
Thanks in advance!
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No, she actually can't change into a cat, she always stays in her human form (by her PCB profile).
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I think that reads more as "prefers to be in human form" than "is unable to turn into a cat", but I guess it can go either way.
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Orin is the only animal youkai we see transform, but Shou is the only one where it is made clear that she can't transform. I would assume that everyone else can, until proven otherwise.
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I'm writing a fanfiction story, and I'm considering a plot arc involving Tenshi. However, this plot point only works if Tenshi has already entered Heaven at this point (703 AD). Unfortunately, I can't determine when she and her family ascended.
The main lead I have at the moment is one of her profiles:
The Hinanawi clan used to be a family of priests who were tasked to protect their keystone, which kept earthquakes under control.
However, even with the Hinanawi keystone, earthquakes occurred rather often. They occurred so often that it went out of the hands of Oomura-no-Kami, a celestial who was in charge of earthquakes at that time, so the Nawi clan, who had been serving the celestials, was ordered to take over the job around the Gensokyo area.
The Nawi clan was a family of earthbound priests, but were enshrined as divine spirits after their death in a small shrine beside a mountain lake known as Nawi-no-Kami. The Nawi-no-Kami still watch quietly watch over Gensokyo.
There is a Nai Shrine in Shimo-hinachi in Nabari City that is for a god of earthquakes, so I think this is the key to the mystery. Unfortunately, that's as far as the trail leads for me. I've run into a dead end, and can't find any information on the Nai Shrine, much less when it was founded.
I'm stuck on that part of the start until I can confirm or deny Tenshi's presence in Heaven at that point. Is there anyone who could help? Part of my problem is that I'm not the best in Japanese. Any information would be helpful.
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Not a Touhou question, but just what is this "mrgrgr" thing everyone is going on about now?
I know it's related to Bravely Default, but what exactly is it?
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It's what Edea utters when she is angered by a certain someone or just in general.
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Not a Touhou question, but just what is this "mrgrgr" thing everyone is going on about now?
I know it's related to Bravely Default, but what exactly is it?
From a birthday thread in LJ, wherein everyone who posted got a Bravely Default avatar.
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I've been reading a great book called Shinto: At the Fountain-head of Japan by Jean Herbert. In it it mentions that it's not uncommon for Shinto Priests to not know who the god residing in the shrine actually is. Obviously Reimu's aware that there's a god in her shrine, but has she ever shown signs of being in contact with them, or knowing who they are?
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She has no idea who the god in the shrine is (as show in OSP 17), and as far as we know she never contacted them.
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History of Gensokyo?
Is there any elaborate timeline as to how Gensokyo was formed?
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http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
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http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
Thanks~
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Now, I'm not really sure if this is the most appropriate place to post about this since this is a Len'en related question instead of a Touhou one. But well, I heard JynX was going to distribute Len'en 03 on last december's comiket? Reactivate Majestic Imperial was the title if I remember correctly.
I've seen on Nicovideo a single RMI video but it only showed one and half stages. The game got me pretty excited since I personally loved the concept and all the work behind Len'en, but it sadly seems like there aren't that many people interested in it.
Do you guys know if there's anywhere one can download RMI/RMI's demo (I think the video showing could've been a demo) or know if there are more videos of it somewhere?
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I know I don't know much
But I've been wondering lately... This stupid question always bother me.
What happens if ZUN dies? I know he's gonna die early since he drinks a lot...
If he dies will Touhou project dies as well? I'm a big fan of Touhou and I'll be sad if Touhou will end...
I just started loving Touhou last year
Will ZUN be replaced if he dies? sorry if this is offensive and I don't know much.
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ZUN would not be replaced. New official works would cease being produced. However, the fandom has enough momentum to keep going without him for quite some time.
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ZUN would not be replaced. New official works would cease being produced. However, the fandom has enough momentum to keep going without him for quite some time.
Incorrect. As a god-king, upon ZUN's death he will be interred in a giant tomb which has already been built under the streets of Akihibara. His burial chamber will be adorned with plushies, scrolls and figmas, and 100 otakus will be buried alive with him. All Touhou fans will shave their heads and observe a period of mourning of a year and a day. It's on his blog, look it up if you don't believe me.
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Does Gensokyo have a postal/messaging service?
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In SWR, Marisa's house seems to have a mailbox. That's the only concrete example I can think of, but I think it's pretty safe to assume some tengu runs a postal service or something.
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Not really to sure how to start this but with the title question, but I'm not sure if an artist has done all of the Touhou characters? (including the DDC cast) I'm wondering because I'm working on a project and if I'm to use character portraits I'd like for all of them to be consistent in design. I can only think of a few artists that have done portraits but they haven't done all of them. Any help would be grateful or if there is already a topic about this even. (Not even sure how to word this in the search bar.)
I guess a good example would be the portraits from Labyrinth of Touhou 2, well designed and are consistent but alas they don't have every character so I can't use them.
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My character relationship chart (http://www.mediafire.com/view/2j6opebaj8esd/Touhou%20Relationship%20Chart#2tp91qo9q723851) uses walfas. A fellow redditor and I also expanded on the existing patchcon sprites (http://f.thumbs.redditmedia.com/NA3ZTDWeFlS9yjSw.png) so that they cover up until the current developments.
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Well, they're not from the same artist, but the portraits used on TV Tropes are all fairly consistent Alphes style, if that's of any help.
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Not really to sure how to start this but with the title question, but I'm not sure if an artist has done all of the Touhou characters? (including the DDC cast) I'm wondering because I'm working on a project and if I'm to use character portraits I'd like for all of them to be consistent in design. I can only think of a few artists that have done portraits but they haven't done all of them. Any help would be grateful or if there is already a topic about this even. (Not even sure how to word this in the search bar.)
I guess a good example would be the portraits from Labyrinth of Touhou 2, well designed and are consistent but alas they don't have every character so I can't use them.
Kaoru (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=743845) made a character portrait for every existing character with a name (and a few without). They are downloadable at this site (http://gensoukyou.1000.tv/dl.html). Another possibility would be dairi (http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=4920496), though he probably isn't doing PC-98 characters.
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I guess a good example would be the portraits from Labyrinth of Touhou 2, well designed and are consistent but alas they don't have every character so I can't use them.
Wow someone needs to continue those sprites.
Kaoru (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=743845) made a character portrait for every existing character with a name (and a few without). They are downloadable at this site (http://gensoukyou.1000.tv/dl.html). Another possibility would be dairi (http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=4920496), though he probably isn't doing PC-98 characters.
These are really great.
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Perfect, I feel bad that I didn't notice this thread first but thank you for bringing my question here. (I'll be more careful in the future)
My character relationship chart (http://www.mediafire.com/view/2j6opebaj8esd/Touhou%20Relationship%20Chart#2tp91qo9q723851) uses walfas. A fellow redditor and I also expanded on the existing patchcon sprites (http://f.thumbs.redditmedia.com/NA3ZTDWeFlS9yjSw.png) so that they cover up until the current developments.
The sprites look great, I might find some use for them somewhere. I'm fairly ignorant to walfas but I've seen it around, its a great idea but the design doesn't work with what I plan to do but again I might find some use for it in the future.
Well, they're not from the same artist, but the portraits used on TV Tropes are all fairly consistent Alphes style, if that's of any help.
I've noticed that seems to be the most popular result, I'd figure that's what I'd have to pick anyway lol.
Kaoru (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=743845) made a character portrait for every existing character with a name (and a few without). They are downloadable at this site (http://gensoukyou.1000.tv/dl.html). Another possibility would be dairi (http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=4920496), though he probably isn't doing PC-98 characters.
Figured it would be Alphes style, which isn't bad it's just all I've seen, but thank you so much! I tried to find one of every character before but only got few results but this is all lined up nicely and with different emotions! For Dairi though I'd like to use some of those as well too but is there a way to download those in chunks or one at a time? (New to Pixiv)
Wow someone needs to continue those sprites.
I know right? I love those, hopefully we will in LoT3. (Lol that's not for a long while maybe.)
Thank you everyone who answered my question, didn't think I'd get any results!
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In ZUN's comments on Imperishable Night's Love Colored Masterspark, he says Marisa has 5 themes. I know Love Colored Magic, Dimensional Dream, Vessel of Stars, and the Seihou one. What's the fifth one? She has Himorogi Burn in Violet and Selene's Light, but if one then why not the other? And if both, that makes 6 themes all together. I thought he might not count the Seihou one, but he considers Reimu and Yuuka's themes so why not Marisa's?
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Maybe he considers Love Colored Magic and Love Colored Master Spark as two separate songs?
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According to the wiki, Marisa has 7 themes: "Love Colored Magic", "Love Colored Master Spark" (the first from SoEW, IaMP and HSTS, the latter from IN), "Dim. Dream", "Vessel of Stars", "Ball of Witches", "Oriental Dark FLight" and "Magus Night".
By the time of IN's release, she had "Love Colored Magic", "Dim. Dream", "Vessel of Stars", "Ball of Witches" and "Love Colored Master Spark", which makes for 5 in total.
"Love Colored Master Spark" may just be a remix of "Love Colored Magic", but I suppose ZUN considered that they had enough differences to be considered separate songs.
"Himorogi Burn in Violet" and "Selene's Light" are stage themes. Stage themes are never considered character themes.
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I think Selene's Light from th04 counts as Marisa's theme.
The music's comment for Selene's Light from th04, and the txt file which was included with Witching Dream from his music_old page indicates that he composed the two Stage 1 themes to be Marisa's and Reimu's themes.
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Stage themes are never considered character themes.
Meiling, Alice, Patchouli, Sakuya, Youmu and Suwako would like to have a word with you.
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Maybe he considers Love Colored Magic and Love Colored Master Spark as two separate songs?
I hadn't considered that. The comments make it seem like he treats them as the same, but I might be taking them the wrong way.
"Himorogi Burn in Violet" and "Selene's Light" are stage themes. Stage themes are never considered character themes.
This is what confuses me. You're right, most of the time stage themes aren't considered character themes, but without them she only has 4 themes (if Love Colored Magic/Masterspark are considered the same song).
I think Selene's Light from th04 counts as Marisa's theme.
The music's comment for Selene's Light from th04, and the txt file which was included with Witching Dream from his music_old page indicates that he composed the two Stage 1 themes to be Marisa's and Reimu's themes.
That was my immediate thought but, as Sagus said, stage themes aren't generally character themes. And if he DID mean Selene's Light, what about Himorogi Burn in Violet?
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Meiling, Alice, Patchouli, Sakuya, Youmu and Suwako would like to have a word with you.
I thought it was Twilight Frontier who chose and remix the songs and not ZUN (except for original characters)?
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I think Selene's Light from th04 counts as Marisa's theme.
The music's comment for Selene's Light from th04, and the txt file which was included with Witching Dream from his music_old page indicates that he composed the two Stage 1 themes to be Marisa's and Reimu's themes.
Someone should put that info the wiki, if true, although I think he might've meant he originally wrote them as character themes and them changed his mind and decided to use them as stage themes.
I hadn't considered that. The comments make it seem like he treats them as the same, but I might be taking them the wrong way.
This is what confuses me. You're right, most of the time stage themes aren't considered character themes, but without them she only has 4 themes (if Love Colored Magic/Masterspark are considered the same song).
I think it simply makes more sense to say that Love Colored Magic and Love Colored Master Spark aren't considered the same song. Those stage songs aren't even like other stage songs that were later used as remixes for the character's appearence in the fighting games, which can be said to be associated with them.
Meiling, Alice, Patchouli, Sakuya, Youmu and Suwako would like to have a word with you.
Those are remixes made for the side games. The original songs weren't made for them.
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Someone should put that info the wiki, if true, although I think he might've meant he originally wrote them as character themes and them changed his mind and decided to use them as stage themes.
I think it's already there, in music comments.
Those are remixes made for the side games. The original songs weren't made for them.
Youmu's is used in PoFV as well, so there IS a precedent.
My take is that it's possible that a stage theme can also count as a character's theme. However, that does not mean it applies to each and every stage theme, it's a case-by-case thing. So I'd say Selene's Light counts as Marisa's theme (supported by what Sungho pointed out) and Himorogi doesn't. Oh, and Love Colored Magic and Love Colored Master Spark count as one theme because one is an arrange of the other :P
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I think it's already there, in music comments.
It's not in her music theme list, though. If it really can be considered that, it should be put there.
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For Dairi though I'd like to use some of those as well too but is there a way to download those in chunks or one at a time? (New to Pixiv)
You can take this (http://"http://1drv.ms/1fDQPcS"). It's his OneDrive folder, though you still got to do it one by one(you can at least read the names, right?). Do open the 「-素材利用規約-.txt」file to read the usage instruction.
You need his permission, but I already got that covered. Here's the video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22178001) showcasing them.
Though I like kaoru's more since his looks more "friendly"(I dunno, something about dairi's pics make them look a bit rude, even Byakuren), Dairi got a plus from me for drawing them in full body and an expressive Kokoro.
There's another guy that does all of them too, but I can't remember for now.
Edit: Here's more
Croんte : http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=14542&tag=%E7%AB%8B%E3%81%A1%E7%B5%B5 (My personal favorite, if it's not Alphes style)
Zevid : http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=5774471&tag=%E7%AB%8B%E3%81%A1%E7%B5%B5 (NSFW)
S Syogo : http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=380709 (A little NSFW, since his fetish is "torning clothes")
NOIZ : http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=34519096 (If you're into that kind of thing)
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Some technical ones from me this time.
Which windows boss uses the most spell cards in their fight? (Including the extra cards you can face in IN, and not including non-cards).
Is there a list anywhere stating how long each invulnerability period lasts for bombs? If not, what is it on average?
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If it's just about the fight then that would be Kaguya, provided you brought enough time to see all of her Last Spells.
Most spellcards as a whole should be Satori.
Generally all bombs give you about half two 1,5 seconds (unless my estimate is completely off. :V) of invulnerability after their effect wears off.
Exceptions are MarisaC in SA which gives you barely any actual invulnerability and SakuyaB in DDC which has it after triggering the barrier but doesn't if you time it out.
But there is also the shottype thread in HME where it should be listed.
You can also see how long you are invulnerable while bombing by looking for the spellcircle that closes in around you. Looks exactly like the big ones the bosses have.
Should at least be implemented since PCB. Once it completely disappears you can get hit again.
Also your sprite flashes but the spellcircle makes it more visible imo.
Edit: EoSD indeed doesn't have it. But your sprite flashes at least.
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satori (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUd6I48kNo#t=4m2s)
Really though, most Extra bosses and Kaguya have 10 spell cards, and Mokou and Yukari have 11.
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Is there a list anywhere stating how long each invulnerability period lasts for bombs?
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15824.0.html (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15824.0.html)
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Perfect! Thanks everyone!
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Are there some other kappas who are into engineering like Nitori or she's left alone with bolts and screws? Also would these hover boards from Sonic Riders kinda fit into Gensokyo? I've just came up with an OC...
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Are there some other kappas who are into engineering like Nitori or she's left alone with bolts and screws? Also would these hover boards from Sonic Riders kinda fit into Gensokyo? I've just came up with an OC...
Considering the entry for 'Kappa' in PMiSS as translated over at the wiki, and Nitori's entry in SoPM, I think it's safe to say that engineering is a general thing.
I think there's also been depictions of other kappa doing techy stuff in the background in some of the official manga, but the particular issue/title escapes me at the moment.
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Thanks, it's enough for me to complete my OC little backstory.
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All kappa are Nitori, and Nitori is all kappa. Given everything we learn about them throughout the series, all indications are that Nitori is a completely generic kappa who doesn't stand out in any way. When you're imagining kappa society, just imagine that every single one of them is Nitori and it should be close to canon.
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All kappa are Nitori, and Nitori is all kappa. Given everything we learn about them throughout the series, all indications are that Nitori is a completely generic kappa who doesn't stand out in any way. When you're imagining kappa society, just imagine that every single one of them is Nitori and it should be close to canon.
Now replace 'kappa' with 'magician' and 'Nitori' with 'Marisa'. Now imagine a town full of Marisa's. Now imagine them using Master Spark at the same time in random direction each. You're welcome ;)
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Now replace 'kappa' with 'magician' and 'Nitori' with 'Marisa'. Now imagine a town full of Marisa's. Now imagine them using Master Spark at the same time in random direction each. You're welcome ;)
That's an interesting image, except it's completely false in terms of Touhou. Alice, Patchouli, and Byakuren are all very different from Marisa and from each other. Nitori's genericness actually annoys me because I think it undermines her character as well as kappa society in general. In other words, my comment about Nitori and kappa wasn't a joke, but rather a complaint. By contrast tengu society is much better developed by having multiple conflicting tengu perspectives, as well as the flavor-text indicating Aya's particular position in their society (Hatate thinks her writing is stupid but her pictures are good).
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The other kappa show up in Wild and Horned Hermit. But yea, so far there doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary regarding Nitori compared to other Kappa for the most part. I think Nitori's been stated to be slightly more inquisitive in Subterannean Animism? Depending on interpretation, I suppose. But even the rest of the kappa are probably as greedy as she was portrayed in HM, too, really, given that they make bazaars in general in Hisoutensoku.
In Wild and Horned Hermit, they don't even bother acknowledging Nitori by name when she's lumped up with the other kappa, IIRC.
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The other kappa show up in Wild and Horned Hermit. But yea, so far there doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary regarding Nitori compared to other Kappa for the most part. I think Nitori's been stated to be slightly more inquisitive in Subterannean Animism? Depending on interpretation, I suppose. But even the rest of the kappa are probably as greedy as she was portrayed in HM, too, really, given that they make bazaars in general in Hisoutensoku.
In Wild and Horned Hermit, they don't even bother acknowledging Nitori by name when she's lumped up with the other kappa, IIRC.
I'm pretty sure that she only showed up once personally once in WAHH, and had the same introduction subtitle that everyone else gets. And she sort of acts as the spokesman for that scene. But other kappa show up regularly in other chapters and act pretty much the same. The one who seems most notable to me would be the bookie in the chapter that takes place at the same time as Hopeless Masquerade. Encouraging other people to gamble is of course perfectly consistent with Nitori though.
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Would Aya's wind manipulation be practically useless in outer space? I mean, there's no wind in space so..
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Would Aya's wind manipulation be practically useless in outer space? I mean, there's no wind in space so..
It'd be safe to assume it's useless, and solar wind is also out since she wouldn't be able to do anything with it and it's also plasma.
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Unless SSiB is right and there IS air in Gensokyo's space. Which is... up to debate, really.
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The other kappa show up in Wild and Horned Hermit. But yea, so far there doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary regarding Nitori compared to other Kappa for the most part. I think Nitori's been stated to be slightly more inquisitive in Subterannean Animism? Depending on interpretation, I suppose. But even the rest of the kappa are probably as greedy as she was portrayed in HM, too, really, given that they make bazaars in general in Hisoutensoku.
In Wild and Horned Hermit, they don't even bother acknowledging Nitori by name when she's lumped up with the other kappa, IIRC.
Doesn't the meeting with her in MoF and the information in SoPM reveal that she has a particular interest in humans and wants to interact with them more so then other kappa?
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Oh right, I forgot she got her own intro there.
Doesn't the meeting with her in MoF and the information in SoPM reveal that she has a particular interest in humans and wants to interact with them more so then other kappa?
That went along with her inquisitiveness, I think.
I guess that's the excuse why she's the spokes person for the kappa. That seems to be about as far as it goes, though.
Well, I suppose it doesn't have to be an issue until/unless ZUN introduces more kappa. Maybe it's the fact that other kappa have always explicitly existed in general though that makes it seem more blatant with Nitori than with certain youkai like Mystia or Wriggle (or the fact that Nitori has a larger storyline role than the usual filler youkai, typically).
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In many places I've heard Reimu's ultimate move referred to as "Fantasy Heaven", but sometimes (mainly on these boards) I've heard people call it "Fantasy Nature" or occasionally "Fantasy Temperament" instead. Which is it?
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I think it's mostly identified in the english fandom as Fantasy Heaven because it's been that for a long time, but that was a result of the translation for IN taking 天生 as "heaven" rather than its intended meaning, which is "nature" as in like "natural" or "innate". It isn't a common term at all so a mixup is understandable. It was named as such by Marisa, because it's a spell that can only be used through Reimu's innate abilities. When this was explained in GoM, it became clear that this was the intended meaning, so translations have since updated to calling it Fantasy Nature.
Temperament would be wrong, though.
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Is Mokou physical strength still comparable of that of a human?
Also since 'immortal being' reborn a new whenever they die, does that mean they could fight for all eternity as long they aren't seal/confine or something?
I mean once they tired or something they kill themselves - instantaneously reborn/power replenish and then continue to fight, etc... like that.
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Is Mokou physical strength still comparable of that of a human?
Probably yes because, while she's immortal and knows magic, she's still a human.
Also since 'immortal being' reborn a new whenever they die, does that mean they could fight for all eternity as long they aren't seal/confine or something?
I mean once they tired or something they kill themselves - instantaneously reborn/power replenish and then continue to fight, etc... like that.
No, Mokou was tired after her battle with heroines despite multiple "resurrections" and needed to rest for a few days afterwards. So no respawning at full power, "resurrection" means just being alive again, wounds and fatigue remain.
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Mokou is actually the only person who dies from normal danmaku, so logically speaking she's actually one of the most frail characters, physically. This is supported by her monologue in CiLR where she talks about preferring to repeatedly starve to death than to eat. She lives on the edge of death, because she has no reason not to.
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I think it's mostly identified in the english fandom as Fantasy Heaven because it's been that for a long time, but that was a result of the translation for IN taking 天生 as "heaven" rather than its intended meaning, which is "nature" as in like "natural" or "innate". It isn't a common term at all so a mixup is understandable. It was named as such by Marisa, because it's a spell that can only be used through Reimu's innate abilities. When this was explained in GoM, it became clear that this was the intended meaning, so translations have since updated to calling it Fantasy Nature.
Temperament would be wrong, though.
IIRC Musou Tensei is an idiom meaning "Heaven grants your every fantasy" (or if you prefer, "Everything goes as you wish"). Kind of hard to work that into a translation without missing the in-universe source of the name though.
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Is there a site where I can buy the music CDs? Most preferably one that does U.S. shipping.
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it's a sticky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,566.0.html)
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I'd rather not bother N-Forza however, I get most of my games on Amazon but the only thing of music is a $210 pack of all of them but I'd rather buy then one at a time. Plus I'm not very good with paypal so that's another issue, sorry.
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I hate to suggest it, but jlist (http://www.jlist.com/home) probably works for what you want.
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I figured, they do have the CDs but not all of them. Sorry for the trouble, is it expensive getting things through N-forza? (Combination of shipping costs and what not)
Also is the Labyrinth of Touhou on 偽英国紳士団's website just a demo? Its feels like the full game so far but I can't be too sure not the time to check the rest of the game.
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What would happen if Marisa lost her Mini-hakkero? I've always wondered if Marisa's mini-hakkero is a one-of-a-kind item or one of many disposable units. Would she go crazy without it or simply whip out another one from her pocket?
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Rinnosuke made it for her, so while it's currently one-of-a-kind, another one could be made if something happened to the original.
I doubt Marisa has enough attachment to anything to go crazy from losing an item, at any rate. Even one as useful as the hakkero.
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In DDC the mini-hakkero went crazy and her B shot type has her abandon it without any hesitation. It's a tool, not something she cares about that much. If it's broken or lost, then she won't use it while she gets another or has it fixed.
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I figured, they do have the CDs but not all of them. Sorry for the trouble, is it expensive getting things through N-forza? (Combination of shipping costs and what not)
Also is the Labyrinth of Touhou on 偽英国紳士団's website just a demo? Its feels like the full game so far but I can't be too sure not the time to check the rest of the game.
If you're looking for CDs, then it's probably best to look in Tora no Ana, Melonbooks, or Amiami, which sadly doesn't ship overseas. As for the price, yes the shipping cost is what makes it expensive, so you better buy in bulk. Forza himself only take $5 or so for his commission. If you like Digital version, try Melonbooks DL.
That's only a demo, you can get the full game from Tora or Melon.
By the way, can you download from the link I gave you back then?
In DDC the mini-hakkero went crazy and her B shot type has her abandon it without any hesitation. It's a tool, not something she cares about that much. If it's broken or lost, then she won't use it while she gets another or has it fixed.
Pretty much. In the end, the mini-Hakkero is just a magic amplifier. She can still cast her magics without it, and as we know, you don't need a hakkero to use a Master Spark.
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Rinnosuke made it for her, so while it's currently one-of-a-kind, another one could be made if something happened to the original.
Only in the sense that he could make another version. Rinnosuke made the current version out of hihiirokane, which he only did because Marisa unknowingly gave him a bunch of it as a trade. He could make a new Mini-Hakkero (like the one he made before the current one), but not a new one as high-grade as this.
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If you're looking for CDs, then it's probably best to look in Tora no Ana, Melonbooks, or Amiami, which sadly doesn't ship overseas. As for the price, yes the shipping cost is what makes it expensive, so you better buy in bulk. Forza himself only take $5 or so for his commission. If you like Digital version, try Melonbooks DL.
That's only a demo, you can get the full game from Tora or Melon.
By the way, can you download from the link I gave you back then?
I see, how much in bulk would you say is decent, or would it be based on how much I get in the bulk?
Thank you, it was late when I tried that and had work so I couldn't check.
Yes if it's the one with the 4 gbs of portaits then yes I was able to dl those in one go, all of those links will be very helpful for my project thank you.
Sorry for all of my silly questions but, is there a spell practice game that I can use for games like EoSD and PCB like in IN? Getting the stage down is easy but if I have to keep going through the stage just to practice spell is getting difficult.
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Nope, sorry. I have boss rush patches made for SA and UFO, and there are methods to boss rush TD and DDC with some memory twiddling, but nothing I know of for EoSD or PCB.
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Well I guess it's a great way to get the stage memorized then, thanks again.
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SpoilerAL has a number of useful functions - http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15294.msg1004145.html#msg1004145
It is possible, I know, to give attacks infinite timers (like this, for instance (http://www.twitch.tv/waahst/c/3015984)). I don't know how to do it myself, and I don't see a mention of it in that thread, but I could probably find out, if you're interested.
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This might be bit of a hard question to answer, but does any one know where the "Trapdoor Mokou" originated from?
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http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/もこたんインしたお! (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E3%82%82%E3%81%93%E3%81%9F%E3%82%93%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F%E3%81%8A!)
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/あ、ぽこたんインしたお! (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E3%81%82%E3%80%81%E3%81%BD%E3%81%93%E3%81%9F%E3%82%93%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E3%81%97%E3%81%9F%E3%81%8A!)
Meme described in #1, originated from some BBS thread as a parody of meme described in #2, originating from a FF11 BBS thread.
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Some monthsAges ago i found a neat fighting game. Thing is that I don't remember the name and can't find it again.
It had Satori, Yuuka and Yukari (not 100% certain about her) as the only playable characters, was a Part 2 or 3 of a series and had a kinda weird announcer like Tekken or Street Fighter have for the start of the round, etc.. Combat wise it was entirely melee with the inputs being Street Fighter style as well, if I remember right.
Anyone here know about it?
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Is there anything about normal humans being able to fly, or being unable to fly, or something like that in official print works?
One of Akyuu's footnotes in Flandre Scarlet's article seems to imply that even normal humans can fly, but is there anything more about this?
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Aside from Akyuu's comment there is nothing else in the official printworks that gives a definite answer.
There are theories however about it which include Yukari messing with the border between ground and sky or that Reimu's "ability to float" is affecting all of Gensokyo making it easier or rather possible to fly for everyone who puts some effort into it.
But as far as I know it has been stated somewhere that your average run of the mill human isn't capable of flying. Akyuu tends to exaggerate at times. :V
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But as far as I know it has been stated somewhere that your average run of the mill human isn't capable of flying.
Umm, does anyone else know this is stated?
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I don't recall any statement as such.
...someone refresh my memory. Did we see Kosuzu and Akyuu fly? Ugh, we only had this discussion a short time ago and I already can't remember the end conclusions.
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Well, Kosuzu had to fly with Marisa on her broom at one point, so it's quite possible that she can't.
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I remember Kosuzu riding on Marisa's broom at one point. It doesn't really imply either way, though. Akyuu notes in PMiSS rather casually that people flying is common. Despite this, we don't ever see human villagers fly, and neither Akyuu nor Kosuzu have yet flown. The usual conclusion is that it's something to be learned, but even still I would expect anyone to want to be able to fly. The only humans that fly without excuse would be Sakuya and Mokou.
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I don't know if i'm being a derp or not but..... is there someplace where i can find the original bgm of Touhou IN HQ? I'm not looking for remixes, just the original ones in high quality.....
Because i've searched around in Youtube and some songs just can't be find in high quality....
i.e. for the past 20 minutes i've searched Suwa Foughten Field and still no luck :(
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Drake has the OSTs in his game rips thread. I believe they're taken directly from game data, so I doubt there's higher quality than that. However, I'm on mobile so I can't post the thread's link. It's in the Touhou Projects sub-board of RikaNitori.
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,197.0.html
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A bit of a odd question but what kind of area is EoSD's stage one? I'm trying to find out Rumia's habitat and playing stage one (even with the high res patch) doesn't really help. I would assume trees with a large path and a river in the middle but those "trees" also look like giant leaf piles. And it's looks like it opens up at the end which should lead to the misty lake, and using the misty lake stage in Hiso as a reference it does look like it but I'd like someone elses opinion on it please.
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While there is still no official map of Gensokyo (?) I guess it is established by now that the Hakurei Shrine lies on its eastern edge so I'll go from there.
If you draw a straight line between the shrine and the Misty lake (going north) that would roughly be this area. I also believe that it borders on the forest of magic which would then lie in the west, with the human village beyond.
I don't want to turn this into a geography discussion (I believe there was one a few pages ago, with a few fan created maps posted as well, so you might want to check that out too) but if we have the Misty Lake & SDM in the northeast and assume that the river that flows down the Youkai Mountain (they have a waterfall there, so that's a given) would go into the lake it would have to leave somewhere as well so it would also explain the river in EoSD stage1.
That would be my theory.
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I think it might be a border of Forest of Magic (btw. what's the difference between Magic Forest and Forest of Magic?) too, but because of darkness surrounding Gensokyo every forest would look the same.
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I always figured that she just wanders aimlessly, but gets stuck in the forest. In PMiSS Akyuu says she didn't know where she usually roams. Why are you trying to figure this out?
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Well it's a bit silly but I got rpg maker recently and touhou is a big inspiration for me and I wanted to make something from it, but as I feel I wouldn't portray the characters very well I came up with the idea of a interactive wiki / museum type of rpg where those who are new to touhou can learn the basic story of each game and information of each character and hopefully enjoy a challenging battle with said characters ala Labyrinth style. It's silly but I just wanted to do something different from what most people do.
EDIT: Foolishly I realized I didn't answer your question directly, I'm designing her stage but with out knowing what stage one actually is like I can't transfer it well, if it's just a forest then it should be somewhat easy.
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Dunno how helpful this is, but the picture next to the section on EoSD in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red shows Rumia and Reimu facing off over the shrine. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:079BAiJRspecialEoSD.jpg (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:079BAiJRspecialEoSD.jpg)
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Also, Reimu's line right before Rumia appears:
"Still... It's so romantic out behind the shrine at night. (← carefree)"
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I remember reading something yesterday that said how there is a path near the shrine that leads in the direction of the misty lake, wither it connects or not is unknown to me. Thanks again for all the help everyone.
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Aaaaand with reply #1,007 we reach the lock. New thread here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16752.0.html).