Author Topic: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth  (Read 202460 times)

cuc

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2013, 01:47:18 AM »
Since every time I examine something at length, people seem to go TL;DR, I'll beat my drum for the third time (pun not intended).

The joke in Marisa's ability name 三度目の粉飾魔 works like this.

First of all, there's a Japanese idiom 三度目の正直, which is the equivalent of "third time's the/a charm", meaning "even if results of the first two divinations were bad, the third divination will return a good result" or "even if the first two times were lost, the third time will be a victory". Obviously in HM, this refers to how Marisa's every fourth attack is stronger.

粉飾魔 is a rather esoteric reference for the Japanese, and none of them seem to have gotten it. Aside from HM itself, there's only one single instance of this expression on the internet, but once I saw it, I became sure of its relevance.

In Japanese, a serial killer is colloquially known as a "serial man-killing demon" 連続殺人鬼 or 連続殺人魔. Thus, Al Gore's infamous nickname, "serial embellisher", can be rendered as 連続粉飾魔 ("serial embellishing demon") in Japanese. We know Marisa's habits; we know HM's religious war is a parody of modern elections (this is even more apparent in the newspaper headlines).

Since 魔 is also the character for "magic", 粉飾魔 might be understood by a Japanese speaker as "embellished magic". Either way, it still sounds weird and unfamiliar to Japanese ears.

With the two combined, perhaps Marisa's ability should be translated as "Third Time's the/an Embellisher"? What do you think?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 02:22:45 AM by cuc »
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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2013, 01:59:19 AM »
Since every time I examine something at length, people seem to go TL;DR, I'll beat my drum for the third time (pun not intended).

The joke in Marisa's ability name 三度目の粉飾魔 works like this.

First all, there's a Japanese idiom 三度目の正直, which is the equivalent of "third time's the/a charm", meaning "even if results of the first two divinations were bad, the third divination will return a good result" or "even if the first two times were lost, the third time will be a victory". Obviously in HM, this refers to how Marisa's every fourth attack is stronger.

Technically it's every 4th attack, but I know what you mean.

Quote
粉飾魔 is a rather esoteric reference for the Japanese, and none of them seem to have gotten it. Aside from HM itself, there's only one single instance of this expression on the internet, but once I saw it, I became sure of its relevance to HM.

In Japanese, a serial killer is colloquially known as a "serial murder demon" 連続殺人鬼 or 連続殺人魔. Thus, Al Gore's infamous nickname, "serial embellisher", can be rendered as 連続粉飾魔 ("serial embellishment demon") in Japanese. We know Marisa's habits; we know HM's religious war is a parody of modern elections (this is even more apparent in the newspaper headlines).

Since 魔 is also the character for "magic", 粉飾魔 might be understood as "embellishment magic". Either way, it still sounds weird and unfamiliar to Japanese ears.

With the two combined, perhaps Marisa's ability should be translated as "Third Time's the/an Embellisher"? What do you think?

...sounds terrible. But then again, if the intended audience isn't getting it either maybe it's just a terrible joke in the first place.

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2013, 01:59:50 AM »
Third time's the embellishment charm. IDK. Sounds better to me. More obviously in line with the common saying.

cuc

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2013, 02:10:35 AM »
...sounds terrible. But then again, if the intended audience isn't getting it either maybe it's just a terrible joke in the first place.
Making esoteric references to things the average Japanese won't know is a Touhou's modus operandi. Most Japanese readers find SSiB boring and confusing, no different from their Western counterpart, for example.

(The small amount of dedicated Touhou fans, meanwhile, picked SSiB apart by researching all its references and pointing out all its supposed errors, and hated, hated it.)

What's different is this time, ZUN made a reference to something that's both contemporary politics and American, neither he had ever done in Touhou before.

As a whole, Marisa's ability obviously means "every third thing Marisa says is an embellishment of the truth"...

"Third Time's an Embellishment"?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 06:02:52 AM by cuc »
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AnonymousPondScum

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2013, 02:31:11 AM »
Isn't the whole third-time thing also a reference to something Al Gore-related?

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2013, 02:38:41 AM »
"Third One's a Stretch" sounds more Marisa-y in my head. "Embellishment" just doesn't really roll of the tongue (even in my head).

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2013, 02:51:56 AM »
Isn't the whole third-time thing also a reference to something Al Gore-related?

cuc did mention the whole "serial embellisher" thing.

Anyway, cuc, mind going into more detail about the whole "supposed errors in SSiB" thing?

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2013, 03:00:13 AM »
I wish it was real.

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2013, 03:39:10 AM »
I wish it was real.

That image was posted quite a few times already since it's pretty old.

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2013, 04:11:36 AM »
That image was posted quite a few times already since it's pretty old.

But still, it should've been real.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 04:27:05 AM by InfiniteWave »

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2013, 04:19:01 AM »
Yeah... Utsuho in TH 13.5 as a playable character would of suffice in my honest opinion.  :V
Edit: Before I forget to FINALLY mention this... DID ANYBODY know that Miko's cape is a hollar to Code Geass's Lelouch cape?  :colonveeplusalpha:

« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 04:23:06 AM by MewMewHeart »
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cuc

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2013, 06:08:25 AM »
So guys I made a simple Beginner Koishi Tutorial video
I forgot to thank you for making this. I don't have much time for figuring out Koishi.

Anyway, cuc, mind going into more detail about the whole "supposed errors in SSiB" thing?
That'll constitute a major thread derail, so I'll keep it short.

The old guard Touhou fans criticized nearly every aspect of SSiB. To paraphrase the opinions on their sites: synchronous serialization on 3 magazines was a shameless moneygrab; Aki Eda's art sucked; the writing of SSiB was poorly paced, jumping too much through the timeline, failing to maintain internal consistency, not following up on its own foreshadowing...
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 06:10:30 AM by cuc »
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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2013, 08:04:38 AM »
So guys I made a simple Beginner Koishi Tutorial video

Since it's a beginner tutorial video, it only goes over her moveset and the conditions they need to satisfy to be activated, their properties, and some beginner strategies on getting in and a nice Okizeme setup.

Thank you very much. The video really helped grasping the basics, which I badly needed.
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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2013, 02:02:17 PM »
I think I just found Miko's most damaging combo, though it requires level 2 cape :derp:

6[6]A Ring 8 Ring 8 Y(If you're Tao, if not, finish it with 8B)

Deals about 3.5k damage, admittedly, it also pretty much takes away your whole spirit bar. Can be followed up by Emperor of the Land of Rising Sun for about 7.2k damage. Last hit can be omitted and replaced by Heaven In Palm for LW setups.

Also, reliable Miko BnB:

66A 8B 2swords 2 2B Y (Note: Last hit is character-dependent, unless you're using Buddhist Miko, with Tao, you can get about 2.4k damage out of this.)

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2013, 03:03:42 PM »
Quote
I think I just found Miko's most damaging combo, though it requires level 2 cape
6[6]A Ring 8 Ring 8 Y(If you're Tao, if not, finish it with 8B)
You can sneak in an X (light danmaku) if you're Tao for increased damage and it's easier to land Y. Though sometimes it ruins this combo by pushing opponent out of ring.  :V
6[6]A Ring 8 X Ring 8 Y

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2013, 03:34:50 PM »
Also if you connect that combo midscreen you can combo it into her last word for like 7k+ dmg

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2013, 03:59:42 PM »
It also functions almost identically if you use 8B and Ring2.
Most stupidly high damage for little effort.

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2013, 05:33:18 PM »
It appears that you can extend that combo to stun.
6[6]A Ring 8 X Ring 9 Ring Spellcard
You can use either of them.

Taoist of the Land of the Rising Sun
In Spellcard slot you can declare, go a little forward after declaration and, after a delay of ~0.5 second, use it. If you do it right, you will do 6519 damage.

Heaven on Palm
Declare before combo and use it in Spellcard slot almost immediately (wait for 100% stun). ~6k damage.

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2013, 12:08:16 AM »
So what's that little triangle thing about in the deck set up?

Gpop

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2013, 12:20:16 AM »
So what's that little triangle thing about in the deck set up?
That is religion. If one of the signs in each of the corner light up, your character's normals (a, b, x, and. Y) will change pretty drastically for thay religion.

Sage Ω (Ultima)

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2013, 01:00:58 AM »
That is religion. If one of the signs in each of the corner light up, your character's normals (a, b, x, and. Y) will change pretty drastically for thay religion.

Any ideas on what to use for Miko? Or Byakuren?

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2013, 02:33:28 AM »
Any ideas on what to use for Miko? Or Byakuren?
I don't know about Miko, but I strongly recommend Shinto for Byakuren. It makes the 5AAA2A 5Y j.3 5AAA...(enter a million combos here) possible. It also gives you the somewhat cute long range throwing blade for 5X. It does next to no damage but is good for canceling other bullets as well as getting first hit during a match for that pretty 10% popularity increase.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 12:58:11 PM by Kosachi »
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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #82 on: June 20, 2013, 12:39:36 PM »
Agree, Byakuren works nicely with Shinto & Buddhism.

Miko goes well with her own Taoism. Though I've tried to use Shinto & Buddhism with good results. Miko's quite adaptable.

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2013, 03:15:21 PM »
So... I think I found another bug...

If you end the match by using Byakuren's Last Word, it will freeze. The opponent will just get away like if stunned and the match will freeze, regardless that you won the battle.
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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2013, 04:37:12 PM »
Yeah I decided to go with Taoism for Miko and Buddism for Byakuren but I may switch to Shinto and compare how good I play.

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2013, 01:18:18 AM »
Buddhism deck for Byakuren and Taoism deck for Miko is the wins! 
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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2013, 09:42:22 AM »
For nearly a month of playing... I can see shades of previous characters in the new characters. Some may already figured it out and this may sound redundant, still would like to share a bit.

For Reimu & Marisa, they're the usual, and not much changed from them.

Hijiri Byakuren - has shades of Meiling and a bit of Remilia. Being a heavy physical fighter with somewhat weak projectiles (though her heavy projectile is heavy and dense) just screams Meiling, her dash is like Remi's but her attacks after that is Meiling's

Miko - mix between Okuu & Tenshi. Cape and her laser attacks are much like Okuu (with a hint of Tenshi in the mix), she uses her sword much like Tenshi does.

Ichirin - Her attacks are almost like Sanae; the way Ichi uses Unzan is like how Sanae uses Kanako & Suwako

Futo - Uses loads of set up like Alice, while her "elemental" attacks reminds me so much like Patchy. Apart from her boat spam, I am sure everybody loves to use her fireball pinball, which is similar to Alice's Seeker Wire

Satori - She's the Suwako in the game, random and hard to predict attacks, while being very powerful at the same time.

Nitori - At the moment, I still can't figure out who she represents from the old game... one with reasonable melee and powerful projectiles and spell cards. I was thinking Patchy (due to the power of her special attacks) though it's not an accurate one.

Mamizou - The new Yukari: Slow dash (and lack of border jump - that went to Reimu), with wide angle projectiles, and her special attacks are all over the place, much like our favorite 17 yr old. Not to mention her Hundred Demon Parade... replace that with the Train.

Kokoro - Since there are no spell cards and more interesting attacks, it's hard to see who she represents. Though her weak projectile (the 3 mask) and the use of the Naginata does remind me of Youmu.

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2013, 01:49:00 PM »
Hey guys,

Just in case you haven't seen, I'm hosting a tournament for Hopeless Masquerade next month for MotK members. Would anyone be interested in joining?

Any skill level is welcome!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:54:24 PM by Shimatora »

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #88 on: June 21, 2013, 05:33:35 PM »
Hey guys,

Just in case you haven't seen, I'm hosting a tournament for Hopeless Masquerade next month for MotK members. Would anyone be interested in joining?

Any skill level is welcome!

I was interested in joining the first time I heard about it but I'm not too sure how to join.

Shin Rokuren

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #89 on: June 21, 2013, 06:40:28 PM »
As much as I love to join tourneys, I cannot. Connection to a friend of mine in Malaysia was smooth to laggy at times. It'd definitely be a LOT worse with people from America or Europe.

Although I can be up for casual matches, when I'm free, to people in SEA.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 06:48:17 PM by Shin Rokuren »