Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F

[Nyxnyx]

Ok, I added swordmaster and archmage along with said table for main game subclasses. Some informations like the delays and damage are not known for now so maybe once we have more infos they can be added later.

[Kirin no Sora]

I have decided to aid in the wiki effort as well.

I have noted that Patchouli's "half MP" skill actually has an incredible synergy with her "2 MP regen when in the rightmost slot" skill, as it basically allows her spells to cost net total of 1 MP. I do believe that that is particularly noteworthy, since if you add the Magician subclass and it's 1 MP regen skill, her spells are essentially have no MP cost at all, meaning that she could do a hit and run, can always be ready to help clear out floor trash without MP cost issues and even do something after a World Devouring Calamity. I have written this into her awakened skills section.

I also have a question: does her half MP skill affect subclass spells? Because if they do, then Magic Transfer could also be cast for effectively no MP(max level reduces cost to 6, which would be halved to 3, which would be payed for by the MP regen), making her one of the better users of that subclass.

[Serela]

Yeah, it gives Patchouli nearly infinite mp, and that IS noteworthy. The issue is with how to actually use it... she's glacially slow, and even using boosts, gems, and subclass will make it difficult to get her to move before enemies have a lot of chance to murder her; she's more worried about running out of TP than MP, even before you obtain that skill. Unless you use Monk and Strategist to make her go first regularly and keep her from dying too much in randoms... (That IS a decent strategy, though)

I think it does effect subclass spells, which is good, but she's nowhere near a good candidate for support casting due to fragility and rock bottom spd; leave that to Minoriko or others. Rather, it makes subclass magic attacks no longer have awful price tags.

Hrm, if you seriously go all-out on Patchouli's speed using postgame base stat boost potential, and then use some of her levelup bonuses in it as well, maybe she could be a star random fight clearer. Awful TP but that's far easier to fix than her speed. Might be something to consider for SDM parties (which are worth considering now that Remilia has a useful awakening to fix her up, and Sakuya's received direly needed ATK boosts)
(...or, you could just use someone else. Honestly Patchy feels like the SDM weak link. She's great at randoms and has good element variety but she's got no damage bonuses to capitalize on her magic with, slow, dies instantly to any physical, etc.)

edit:And Kokoro's added to the wiki!

[hoangndh136]

hi everyone, now i am stuck at three rock at 22f and the rock at b7f, can yoy tell me what to do

[Nyxnyx]

If you're going to boost Patchy's speed all the way up to match the mobs for randoms, we have Aya for that lol. Unless you wanna give Patchy waifu tier power up then yeah.

[RegalStar]

I finally managed to get some good mileage out of Koishi in a boss battle. She dodged a lot of Mirror of the High God's attack and even survived a stray Ancient Curse by a tiny bit, and with an Astral Dominae she had 4 MP recovery, but she really couldn't do a lot of damage back unless someone silences it for her. She's in sore need of Earth Spirits party synergy (and Okuu Blazing for her) if you her evasion counters to actually amount to something

[Serela]

Yeah, after I realized she has no damage support passives to back up her average-y MAG/formulas, I realized there was a problem. She definitely has potential, but you need to actually be running Utsuho and Orin (and/or satori, but that's somewhat less likely. Yukari endgame synergy with Satori at over 99 max mp? :V). On the upside, Utsuho is notably better now and both her and Orin have great corridor awakenings, so that's not a bad option.

Oooh, synergizing with Okuu's blazing though... that'll be important to note down on the wiki review when it comes up.

JP wiki also notes that Ancestors' damage goes up even MORE if you land both status effects, but that requires the boss to be vulnerable to both.

Also, as you're someone actually using her, I'd like to ask you; I've realized the "Myouren Temple Disciple?" skill is worded in terms of Byakuren's stat buffs both in the original translation and on the jp wiki googlese but it sounds like it doesn't mean her sutras? There's a note saying it doesn't work if they have higher buffage than it grants but neither Kokoro nor Koishi can get such a thing anyway if it meant her sutras? I'm assuming that it actually means their buffs are at a ~30% minimum if they're out with a heavily buffed up Byakuren, which is alright for a lil' buff headstart, but not especially notable.

edit:...also, yes, using Aya to give Patchy turns is probably easier. Can help keep Aya's mp up if you make Patch a monk still, but you're probably not using her as a monk the rest of the time... (HOWEVER, if her 10% delay decrease actually synergizes with High Speed Aria and reduces by the original delay amount, that might be useful. If she doesn't sub a magic class though she might be wanting guardian for grand incantation though. Choices are hard)

[Nyxnyx]

Yeah, after I realized she has no damage support passives to back up her average-y MAG/formulas, I realized there was a problem. She definitely has potential, but you need to actually be running Utsuho and Orin (and/or satori, but that's somewhat less likely. Yukari endgame synergy with Satori at over 99 max mp? :V). On the upside, Utsuho is notably better now and both her and Orin have great corridor awakenings, so that's not a bad option.

Oooh, synergizing with Okuu's blazing though... that'll be important to note down on the wiki review when it comes up.

JP wiki also notes that Ancestors' damage goes up even MORE if you land both status effects, but that requires the boss to be vulnerable to both.

Also, as you're someone actually using her, I'd like to ask you; I've realized the "Myouren Temple Disciple?" skill is worded in terms of Byakuren's stat buffs both in the original translation and on the jp wiki googlese but it sounds like it doesn't mean her sutras? There's a note saying it doesn't work if they have higher buffage than it grants but neither Kokoro nor Koishi can get such a thing anyway if it meant her sutras? I'm assuming that it actually means their buffs are at a ~30% minimum if they're out with a heavily buffed up Byakuren, which is alright for a lil' buff headstart, but not especially notable.

No it's not the sutra, it's an immediate 30% buff from what Byakuren is currently having after Kokoro/Koishi gets a turn. So yeah, not useless, but not too good either, since after you get Byakuren to max the next thing you do is to use that Byakuren to buff others anyway. In the end, the skill only works for a couple of first turns.

[RegalStar]

命蓮寺の修行者？
スキル取得者の行動時に、聖が持つ能力上昇効果の1/3が
スキル取得者にコピーされる。このスキル効果で得られる能力上昇効果よりも
高い能力上昇効果を既に持っている場合、コピーは実行されない。

Myouren Temple Dsiciple?
When the skill holder acts, take 1/3 of Hijiri's current buffs
and have the skill holder copy them. If currently, compared to the buffs given by the effect of this skill,
that (the skill holder) has higher buffs, then the copy will not take place.

So yes, it's only good for a headstart, or maybe if Byakuren just got hit with Destroy Magic and you chose her elemental or status sutra instead of the MP regeneration. Theoretically it could also be useful if they got hit with a heavy single-target debuff or something, but Koishi starts with 100 debuff resistance Kokoro 128 so... in practice not really.

[Serela]

It's a good head start. Byakuren doesn't have an obscene 100% instantaneous buff, so now they'll get like, 80% buffs from the initial one instead of ~50%. That's fairly nice.

[Nyxnyx]

Now that I finished everything up till 100 infinite corridor, I can't wait for the next patch. Hopefully Satori will be buffed in some way :V

[KyokoDolls]

I'm very sorry if this is the wrong place to put this, but iw as wondering if the skill "High Level Treatment" is supposed to be working in the non plus disk patch. Throughout all of my playthroughs, i have never seen it activate.

[Serela]

Yeah, Satori's... got potential in a few super gimmick setups (involving heavymaxing hp/mp and using patriot elixir/kimontonkou or Spiriting Away), but apart from that, even with her corridor weakness bonus she's gonna be like, hitting the numbers all your bulky attackers can hit already. Even if you DO run the whole earth spirits team she seems like a dubious choice. Super fragility makes it go into "why?", so it's support gimmicks or bust.

I had fun with Gambler Satori in maingame but she doesn't keep up with damage bonuses postgame and gambler got wrecked.

Koishi and Kokoro could prolly use a lil' somethin' somethin' too, but Koishi at least works well in an Earth Spirits team and Kokoro might make a good Dragon God?

[RegalStar]

Well, after awakening Satori can kill every boss without letting them have a turn (assuming she uses some specific teammates), so she has that going for her  :V

[Serela]

um what  :getdown:

[RegalStar]

Someone (Keine?), Yukari, Satori, Aya. Magician for everyone except Aya who should have Murakumo with MP drain (6 MP per turn). Satori uses Spiriting Away; free slot char switches Satori with Yukari, Yukari switches Satori with herself, Aya gives Satori a turn. As long as Satori has enough MP after this to cast another Spiriting Away (I think 72 base MP is good enough), then you can loop until the boss has 1 HP left, then hit it with whatever to finish up.

[Serela]

WELP

If the jp have noticed then that passive will probably get fixed to where Satori has to be -actually- swapped out to regain her 25% mp. Although this does bring up an idea of subbing Satori with Murakamo... she can cast Grand Patriot's Elixir forever with the mp drain passive. It'll suck the front row's mp, but she can just -keep going- and she can even drain the HP back if you're willing so that she can stay out through boss turns.

Although, Murakumo might be overkill if you can still abuse small mp recovery. You could just sub enchanter for the self-heal on buff and have someone (Orin or Kogasa for speed?) swap her around periodically.

Even if 3peso fixes Small MP Recovery, you can still combo with an instant attacker to make it still be somewhat abusable.

[RegalStar]

Probably the easier way to fix it would be to not let Murakumo's MP drain work at double efficiency. This way Aya would only be able to get 3 MP back, plus 2 from Keine's passive; not enough to keep the loop going indefinitely.

BUT WAIT~ Sanae's awakening lets her restore up to 5 MP for the entire team per turn so this can still work~ Yeah I guess there's no escaping this  :V

[Serela]

I dunno, killing Murakumo's mp passive just to stop one gamebreak would make me saaad. Although, huh... yeah, I guess Aya could use that with -anyone- to extreme effect, even if not a total game break grade.

Jesus. Murakumo's gonna need his own entire section of suggestions for who to put it on. (Probably just one page for the entire set of special subs, since Dragon God is in a much smaller yet similar boat? Mmn. I guess Murakumo can just have a long description on the subclass page, actually.)

[Nyxnyx]

Now that's one hell of a cheese lol, although not as broken as diva Aya I suppose.

I didn't put the Murakumo subclass on anyone yet, since I'm still not sure who would make the most out of it. Probably bulky attacker with that doesn't want to switch out since they would appreciate the sustain Murakumo gives, so Kasen, Okuu, attacker Shou and Mokou to a much lesser extent etc.

And then we have those characters with passives that increases stats or damage when either HP or MP is full, either awakened or not. Youmu, Yuugi and Miko comes to the top of mind for me. Probably there're more of them.

Also it's kinda useful for attacker that can't buff themselves, but then we can use other characters for that.

Speaking of which, Futo still has this problem of buffs and heals remove plates. Makes her harder to use especially since she has kind of average stats and spells and she needs those plates to be in competition to other characters.

[Serela]

Oooh... that could be a good build for Youmu indeed, using Murakumo for more HP regen and to activate Calm And Serene Mind. Oh, but it's not all good, since it sort of negates her ability to make use of her awakening very well... and youmu's not that good without her awakening. Miko can make better use of it, but she'd be limited to only using Tradition of Just Rewards if she wanted max mp for the passive. Of course, the passive isn't critically important, but she's mostly only getting hp regen out of it otherwise. Hmm, it's still not a bad option, esp. in cases where she IS using that move.

Yuugi would definitely enjoy it after awakening- 30% extra damage at max mp, atk/def buffs at max hp. Sweeet. Helps enable full-power knockouts or to make her one heck of a juggernaut when attacking with Phenomenon/Murakumo Slash.

I might throw it on Maribel. She doesn't need the mp passive, but Grand Incantation works great with Start of Heavenly Demise, and combined with her Renko synergy, she'd have massive stay-out power to use with Rapid Charge and Incantation. At the least, until I Awaken Maribel- at which point I'd see how it was working out, etc.

[RegalStar]

Koishi's "DEF/MND/Evade up when attacked by AoE" skill doesn't work.  :ohdear:

Also the fix for Futo's synergy skill apparently made it work regardless of whether Miko is even in the party of 12 or not.

And Suika's Free Spirited Oni seems to be... weird. I tried to have her solo a lamprey serpent with regular attacks; somehow it seems that instead of increasing the damage bonus as the target's HP goes down, it ended up giving the largest increase when target has near (but not actually) full health, and the bonus goes down as the target's HP goes down. Actually now I'm looking at the skill description I'm not even sure what we have currently is correct any more. "敵のＨＰが減っていればいるほど、敵に与えるダメージが上昇する。" <- can someone figure out whether this meant "less HP = less bonus" or "less HP = more bonus"?

Diamond Blizzard's PAR is still 6000 lol (maybe he meant "proc rate" up; it did seem to be more accurate than 85% at least)

Mamizou's Seven Transformations only seem to have status proc on half the elements; NTR is PAR/PSN, WND is SPD down, CLD is SIL/HVY, DRK is ATK/MAG down. FIR and PHY did far mor edamage than SPI and MYS though, despite my test subject (Fantasy Mushroom) being weak to WND and thus having the same affinity for taking damage regardless of what element it transformed into.

[Serela]

Huh, that's doofy about Mamizou; assuming it's not even -weaker- to FIR and PHY (I mean, as a mushroom, it's probably weak to fir). Interesting, though. I wonder if Kokoro's magic skill gets stronger on certain elements since it's description sounded more like that?  I'm not at home right now to test, though. (edit:JP wiki says the damage changes on emotions other than joy but only within the range of stat change. Not finished?)

Koishi should be more effective once she can reap EVA Up, at least. Since it's one of the three only ways in the game to get evasion buffs (reimu and chen) it'd be a significant bonus, and the def mnd obviously helps too. At least Futo's thing sort of evens out her plates thing not working right now? :V

[RegalStar]

All below values are at level 1. As far as I know most status infliction attacks don't vary in status strength regardless of spell level, though some debuff attacks do. Since most of these are all all-debuffs with low magnitude you can probably assume that they would vary by 1% per level if they vary at all.

Futatsuiwa Clan's Curse: SIL is 12000 and debuffs are 11%. SHK doesn't have an effect value but it's definitely very accurate, probably 100% or close to it. SIL also seems to be very accurate, but the debuffs are less so (at level 1).

Dazzling Gold: PAR is 4000 and HVY is 12000. Neither are 100% accurate. (Testing even once is a pain because I can only use them on enemies with no resistances so please forgive me for not using it enough times to gauge accuracy)

Mononobe's Eighty Sake Cups: Hits all when plate count is 10 and 10 only. Animation doesn't seem to change at all.

Gate to Catastrophe: 1 plate = PSN; 2 plate = TRR; 3 plate = HVY; 4 plates = SIL; 5 plates = PAR, 6 plates = SHK, 8 plates = DTH (and at which point testing stops because subject is, well, dead).

Taiyi True Fire: PSN is 5000+500*Plate count.

Tradition of Just Rewards: The debuff is 12%.

Tokiko's "reckless" book: Without Reading SIL is 14000 and debuffs are 10%. With Reading SIL is 23000 and debuffs are 18%.

[Serela]

Interesting! Gate to Catastrophe will be pretty neat once Futo's fixed. It's almost too bad my team doesn't currently plan to use anyone with status synergies, since between Futo and Rumia, I'll be kind of set there I suppose :V

[Libra]

 Regarding Satori it's worth noting that against enemies that like to buff their offensive stats she can be quite an effective HP tank, since Eyes that Perceive Reality allows her to ignore those buffs.
I found her pretty helpful against the knowledge's and the azure giant's shadows. Again, Komachi is obviously still the better choice most of the time since she has regeneration and better resistances but it's something  :V

 I'm thinking of maybe subclassing her as an Elementalist for the increased resistances and the 8000 delay spells to proc Extra Experiences of Trauma, the increased elemental damage also seems to synergize well with her Trauma Recollection, allowing her to tank attacks while providing some decent offensive support ( as long as she has someone healing her).

[Serela]

Eyes that Perceive Reality is pretty good on some fights but Momiji does it better, since Satori possesses... nothing else to give her durability except a nice max hp count. Although if you're already using Satori it's something to keep in mind on gimmick fights, yeah.

I can see where you're going as elementalist, but it doesn't really sound like it'd pay off enough to be worth the effort, unfortunately. Trauma's damage isn't anything special unless you're using a super low delay move and Satori would require an awful lot of healing attention- nor does elementalist's buffs do very much or pack nearly a low enough delay to make it worthwhile.

If you want to make it work you need to use it with, at minimum, something like Marisa or Chen's self-buffs (88% and 95% delay), but they're both really fragile, so Reisen ( the godly 98%) is the only really good option. She can self-heal using said high-speed buffs if you sub enchanter, which is a good idea for damage burst style, but obviously it blows through her mp like mad and requires you to use fast swappers (tank-built awakened kogasa? or orin) to shuffle her around for Small Mp Recovery. HP build Satori certainly has potential, but she still doesn't really want to stay out longer than she needs to.

(Although it's kind of hilarious to imagine dragon god satori using patriot's elixir to buff up the front row, it's probably a hilarious waste of the class)

Mmm, Orin or Kogasa using their fast-swap skill to throw Satori around the frontline does sound effective. Build Reisen and Kogasa as tanks, Kogasa's got hp regen, sub Kogasa monk or healer for passive heal/buff addition, with 9300 atb swaps Satori can keep her mp flowing for elixirs for quite awhile... with about 68 max mp she wouldn't run out, if you also learn monk's ATB reduction and Kogasa has a bit more speed than her. Kogasa's passive heal plus subclass heal on 9300 atb turns will keep the front sort of healthy, the only problem is you're using 3 slots up. The 4th would just need to be like... Awakened Reimu or Minoriko to keep everyone alive.

edit:Oh wait, it's 9100 atb swaps. So 9190 if you're really minmaxing it with Monk. That's 4 casts of patriot's, could make it more like 3.5 with speed difference. 68 max MP on Satori would still last a reallllly long time, long enough. When it's time to stop, Kogasa can fastswap her and Reisen both out immediately for other members. Okay, how strong is Kogasa's regen in "event" battles with no terror up, that's what I'd curious about now.

For reference Satori should have 65 mp at lv440 with double mp boost and 10 mp gems, which should be a trivially easy amount of investment as MP gems are one of the most common ones. Her equips would be mostly for hp, but you could give her the mp using equips to never need to stop if you really wanted. That'd mostly be relevant if you wanted enough mp to spam Spiriting Away a lot too.

SO REGALSTAR. Could you grab Renko and Awakened Kogasa and run into the 2f FOE or something? Cast Charge n' see how much % Kogasa heals on her turn? o: I may have a full unlock save but it's not got awakened characters on it. Christ, now I'm imagining her and Satori both subbed healer. Front row recovers 20% max hp every ~800 atb ticks plus Kogasa's passive. It's so dumb. It's so good

[RegalStar]

It heals 2% in random battles, 8% in event battles. After I goaded the sheep into using Great Roar and getting TRR on Kogasa it healed 26%. EDIT: Went after Siren of Silence and inflicted TRR on her, and it healed 26% too.

[Serela]

8%? Woah. Sub her healer (or later, dragon god, where this really starts to look nice...) and just shuffle the front row for 9100 atb turns that regen 12% of everyone's health. Move over Kokoro. >_> And since it's 9100 atb... that adds up to a -lot- of regen. Her base HP is only average but handing her a first aid kit and using her cheap library to tweak it up, well- and she's got solid base def to soften blows even after being an HP sponge build. She's not just sitting there for HP regen either; you get to heavily swap people in/out of the front at any necessary moment (albiet it's not keine-grade or even rinnosuke-grade, but you've got quantity and availability over quality), and she has Sheer Force to inflict any subclass status effects if you specifically want it for a boss, like one weak to SHK or PAR. And she passively regenerates her MP, if you're using skills more for a fight. Damn. I might -actually- use this because I really like Kogasa, although there's so much competition in terms of tank slots for my party as it is >_>

...her affinities are kinda meh, too, but dragon god gives some pretty insane boosts, there. Also, yeah, if you can actually inflict TRR, she'll have 40% dmg resist and full-heal-entire-frontline-between-boss-turns grade regen, uh.

[Nyxnyx]

Come to think of it, Youmu and Yuyuko's passive helps against many, many plus disk bosses since they are ghosts. And those two can be tanks when equiped to be one, with skills from subclass to help them support the team.

As for Kogasa, yeah she's definitely really good with Dragon god. That healing would give good sustain if you run 4 tanky characters up front.

 The next slot would be some sort of strategist buffer to help speed up the buff, so Keine? Or anyone if you use Ran to buff the backlines.

If you also awaken Reisen, something I did since her awakening is universally useful with magnificent vertigo, some boss with high terror resistance can be inflicted, especially when Kogasa has sheer force.

Once terrified, Kogasa would be so hard to kill it's refreshing.

But for me, plus disk bosses tends to kill my damage dealers fast. So regen strat would require a certain amount of investment into their defenses, which translate into grinding for more cash :S

Edit: a bit off topic but seeing so many characters getting skills that directly buff evasion (Rumia, Chen, Alice, Cirno etc.) Koishi should have one of these to a lesser extent, especially when her playstyle require such luck to work ;A;
Not many attack items boost her evasion and vice versa, if she doesn't focus on either side she's not going to do well in both.