Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

The first is designed for Modern from the get-go; the second was designed for Standard, but a lot of cards in it like Tranquil Cove/Monastery Siege just rotated out so you'll need to do a lot of reworking to make the deck legal (and a lot more to make it Modern-viable).

As for the Starfield art, I looked and the illustrator apparently never released a full-res version of it :/

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Tragic, because it's absolutely gorgeous.

But yeah, Turbo Fog it is! Seems fairly cheap and fun to make.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I made the deck, with the adjustment of substituting 4 Tranquil Cove for 4 Seachrome Coast, the Temple of Enlightenment for a Tranquil Cove, and the 3 Shelldock Isle for 3 Island.

Tried it out at my LGS, and won twice in a row by making a deck go *pop*.

Of course, it's utter shit against burn and control, but aggro has absolutely no chance.

[commandercool]

Can you mitigate that with sideboard choices? Because that sounds... Bad? Consistency against different archetypes is kind of important or it's basically just a metagame warping lose-machine.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I never really meant for this to be anything more than a "for fun" deck to be honest. The Faerie Control deck is the one I'm taking seriously.

As for sideboard... not really? I could just straight up get some "play a new turn!" cards, but that's boring and more money than I want to invest in a deck I only really bought for fun and to fill out my collection of utility cards.

[commandercool]

Fair enough. I guess turbofog isn't the kind of thing people are usually talking about when they say "for fun", but I don't know your local for fun meta. And obviously there's merit to playing even the most obnoxious of decks in a non-serious environment sometimes just because both players can learn a lot from them. And Starfield Of Nyx is pretty goofy, so maybe the deck is less hardcore irritating than I assume it is based on your brief description.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Nah, Starfield of Nyx is in the marshmallow tutelage deck, not the turbofog.

My local meta is kind of at a tossup. A month or so ago, I think this deck would absolutely wreck the Eldrazi meta, but ever since Eye of Ugin was banned and all the bandwagoners jumped ship on that, there's been a lot more control being played as of late.

Honestly, I don't really think it's that obnoxious or unfair-- the deck is easily beaten with burn/control or having Elixir of Immortality on hand. It's a cheap-ass card, so there's little excuse not to have it in case of mill players. Anything that disrupts artifacts cripples it, and anything that disrupts enchantments ruins it entirely-- Kruphix and Howling Mine are the fuel and Tutelage is the engine of the whole deck after all. And you'll be drawing plenty of cards, surely you can pack some counters.

THAT SAID, it does no-sell some annoying common combos around here, especially using Kitchen Finks to get infinite life. I don't care about your life here! But a lot of Abzan decks also run Murderous Redcap that can burn me just as easily with the same combo.

So that's what I mean by "for fun". I know it can't handle some decks, but what it does handle, it obliterates.

The basic idea is to just keep dropping Kruphix and Mines to boost card draw. The opponent will take advantage of this and keep building up their side of the battlefield. Meanwhile, I'll eventually pull Tutelage and Supreme Verdict, nuke their board, and start debilitating them.

With one Tutelage and four of the draw boosters, that's five cards per draw phase, which means a MINIMUM of ten cards they have to discard. With two Tutelages, the game will be over in a couple of turns-- and combat is worthless when you have 18 fog-likes in the deck, so burn and counters are your only real option. It's an anti-combat deck that wins by merely defending and letting the opponent wear themselves out. I kinda like that concept.

[Jq1790]

(I have no idea why I follow this thread when I don't actively play any of these things but I still find it fun to read about...)

Re: Starfield's art

It's not SUPER huge resolution but I did find this 1200x880 version that might not look too terrible blown up a bit unless you've got some sort of outrageous resoolution screen.

https://36.media.tumblr.com/c559141f4a18c2ea0daf275be622f6e9/tumblr_nsvg2uuCry1thxsmlo1_1280.jpg

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Unfortunately, I have a huge screen, indeed. But that's the best size I've seen so far, so I quite happily accept!

[commandercool]

Nah, Starfield of Nyx is in the marshmallow tutelage deck, not the turbofog.

D'oh!

So that's what I mean by "for fun". I know it can't handle some decks, but what it does handle, it obliterates.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that sounds like rock/paper/scissors to me, and that's not a game that I find to be that much fun. Whatever floats your boat though. I'm sure there's more nuance to it than that.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

To be more blunt: I'm really not playing it competitively-- more of a "if it works, cool, I get to laugh at their frustration" or "if it doesn't work, I expected it not to". I'm not going to be at FNM this weekend anyway, and by next weekend, I'll probably have more solid plans for the Faerie Control deck, that I actually am taking seriously and doing fucktons of research on.

Like I said, it really is just a deck I'm goofing off with until I figure my Faerie Control deck out (which I also bought some cards for today, including a pretty foil Oona. Closest thing I'll be getting to Bitterblossom, at least. <<; )

That, and it was an excuse to finally break down and buy some Glacial Fortresses and Supreme Verdicts, which should treat me well in other decks. And all the fog cards could come in handy elsewhere sometime. Maybe I could make a fog deck with Urza lands and lazily wave things away and then drop some huge cards and sweep the board. I dunno. The lands were the most expensive bit, with Supreme Verdict not far behind. The rest of the cards were pretty much $1 or less, aside from Howling Mine and Sphinx's Tutelage, which were a small amount more.

So if I do take it to FNM, it'll be for getting laughs out of a gimmick deck wrecking anything that needs combat to win. Not much else, unless you have some sideboard ideas that would make it a legitimate threat to burn and control :V


EDIT: I just realized that the sideboard gives legitimate burn counters with artifacts that give you Hexproof. Wow, how did I miss that?

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I finished breaking down and rebuilding my own Mazirek commander deck. I think I may be too fond of recurstion/graveyard shenanigans for my own good.

[commandercool]

Yeah, I had to take it easy on that stuff after my old Savra, Queen of the Golgari deck caused a few people to nearly quit Commander. Easier to throw a fit than to run graveyard removal, right..? But yeah, that shit's super powerful. Even graveyard removal only does so much because repeating a powerful effect just once can be pretty game-changing.

I'll take a look at the decklist once I'm not on my phone and can handle the formatting better. Maybe I'll post mine eventually.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I was hanging out at a different LGS today. Right before they closed...

"Hey, I feel kinda lucky today. Lemme have a 3-pack."
"Sure, good luck!"

First pack:
>Drownyard Temple

"Ah, that's pretty cool, I didn't have that one ye--" *drops the next card in the pack*

>Archangel Avacyn


...unlike PAD, I wholeheartedly welcome dupes.

[commandercool]

I finished breaking down and rebuilding my own Mazirek commander deck. I think I may be too fond of recurstion/graveyard shenanigans for my own good.

Alright, now that I'm home I can take a closer look at this.

-Does Champion of Stray Souls ever do anything? That seems really, really hard to pull off.

-Ooh, Gyre Sage is a cool include. Didn't even think about that.

-I normally think Hardened Scales is garage, and I still kind of do here, but it is awfully appealing. Being able to add an extra counter to many creatures at a time many times a turn is about as good as that card is ever going to get outside of infinites. Adding another piece to the slow, fragile Mazirek engine seems sketchy, but it could blow out games fast.

Here's my deck:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/19-04-16-mazirek-commander/

We've got quite a lot of overlap, but quite a few differences as well. It looks like yours leans a little more graveyard and mine a little more tokens.

Incidentally, I can't help myself and have to show off the cool sleeves that my Mazirek deck is in right now.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Alright, now that I'm home I can take a closer look at this.

-Does Champion of Stray Souls ever do anything? That seems really, really hard to pull off.

-Ooh, Gyre Sage is a cool include. Didn't even think about that.

-I normally think Hardened Scales is garage, and I still kind of do here, but it is awfully appealing. Being able to add an extra counter to many creatures at a time many times a turn is about as good as that card is ever going to get outside of infinites. Adding another piece to the slow, fragile Mazirek engine seems sketchy, but it could blow out games fast.

I might put Champion of Stray Souls on the chopping block if it's not working out. Hardened Scales is mostly there to try to speed things up, it could easily get dropped in favor of Primal Vigor or something.

Cards I considered but didn't make the cut: Ambition's Cost (just draws cards once and does nothing else), Bone Splinters and Rabid Bite (I already have other ways to deal with creatures, if not necessarily targeted ones), Naturalize and Reclaiming Vines (not enough value compared to Acidic Slime or Reclamation Sage), Elvish Visionary (only draws one card), and Servant of the Scale (doesn't hit optimal value in this deck). If I can figure out more stuff to cut I kind of want to put Tireless Tracker/Ulvenwald Mysteries in because I think Clue effects would synergize really well with the rest of what the deck is trying to accomplish.

btw those sleeves are amazing, I saw some Sanae sleeves somewhere once but didn't think to buy them

Also congrats on that second Avacyn, Mats.

[commandercool]

Clue stuff definitely seems solid in this deck, but I think the green options we got are kind of underpowered. Tamiyo's Journal seems like the best bet, but it's also kind of terrible. Hopefully we get something solid in the next set.

I think all of the cuts you mentioned make sense except Elvish Visionary. I really, really like Elvish Visionary in Commander, and it pulls extra weight in this deck by being a free thing to sacrifice and/or a draw engine combined with graveyard recursion. It's not flashy, but I'm basically always happy to draw it at any point in a game. Helps if you have equipment and your deck really doesn't, but while your cutting things you might as well throw in Bonehoard. If Visionary isn't working for you fair enough, but if you're cutting it based on theory I'd say leave it in long enough to use it a few times and I think you'll be happy with it.

I never turn down an opportunity to buy Touhou sleeves. In addition to those Marisa ones I have Sanae, Yuuka, Tenshi, and Mokou and all of them are on Commander decks. The Marisa ones are probably my favorite though.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I think all of the cuts you mentioned make sense except Elvish Visionary. I really, really like Elvish Visionary in Commander, and it pulls extra weight in this deck by being a free thing to sacrifice and/or a draw engine combined with graveyard recursion. It's not flashy, but I'm basically always happy to draw it at any point in a game. Helps if you have equipment and your deck really doesn't, but while your cutting things you might as well throw in Bonehoard. If Visionary isn't working for you fair enough, but if you're cutting it based on theory I'd say leave it in long enough to use it a few times and I think you'll be happy with it.

I really wanted to put Visionary in the deck for precisely that reason but the person I showed the deck to suggested taking it out when I was making cuts. Other creatures I wanted to mess around with via recursion but put on the chopping block are Blisterpod (I like stuff that makes Scions) and Servant of the Scale (one time I had Meren out and kept raising the Servant when another player had Elesh Norn out)

I'm thinking this deck is going to get split between two decks at some point; Mazirek and the counter stuff are going to get put in a Ghave deck I want to assemble when I have enough decent lands to make a three-color deck, and the graveyard stuff is going to become its own deck. I also kind of want to make some kind of elf deck around Nath.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I'm kind of splitting up my deck ideas. My faerie deck might work better with more tokens and Cryptolith Rite than constantly counting things, so I may look into that.

My Eldrazi Displacer and such might work nicely into a standard deck with Avacyn.

And then there's my new idea: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/thought-control-1/

Lots of ways to look into opponent's hand and remove threats. Telepathy makes their hand always visible.

Soul Foundry lets me crank out a Meddling Mage or Reflector Mage every turn, so I can prevent spells from staying on the field or even being played at all. Chittering Rats every turn makes it so they always topdeck from their hand.

It could be fun! (And yes, I know the mana base is fucked, I had to leave before I could balance it out.

[commandercool]

Telepathy is a super interesting card. It has all of the hallmarks of a bad card (no board presence or card advantage, useless in multiples) but there's no denying it wins games. I don't think I could ever bring myself to run it, but I'm kibd of scared of it. And imagine the havok it would create in a multiplayer game...

Oh shit, actually I may have to try it in my Nekusar Commander deck. That sounds hilarious, although it might slow the game to a crawl.,

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I thought it was pretty interesting myself, especially because it lets me play anti-control.

But how do you think it would do? I suppose it wouldn't be too bad as long as I can keep their field clean and hand jammed, I'm free to attack, but there's not much in the way of win condition, is there?

[commandercool]

I don't know. I've lost any ability to evaluate constructed decks, if I ever had any. I don't really play constructed except for Commander any more, and every time I try it's a disaster. It sounds like it might be a bit gimmicky (Soul Foundry is unplayably slow and sketchy in my experience), but maybe you have enough disruption to keep the weird gimmicks protected.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

It is slow, but once it's down, I'll be cranking out tokens every turn. Especially with Telepathy on board, I can use Meddling Mage to disrupt the worst threats.

It's really the best way to use Meddling Mage, since you can't flicker it without losing the lock you've made. Making tokens every turn (for any color mana!) lets me deny multiple threats, rendering their hand useless.

Another card I'm considering for the foundry is Hanweir Militia Captain, because I can easily pop out 4 creatures so it can flip, and if I can foundarize that, I'll have tokens that keep getting stronger for each creature-- and drop more tokens each turn.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I think I found my commander, should I ever get into EDH.

Esper colors? Check.
Decent cost for what it does? Check.
Debilitating effects? Check.

I can run all my favorite colors with it!

The price tag, though, especially if I want to snag a foil one.... sigh.

(Would I trade an Avacyn for that? Hmmm.)

[commandercool]

I think I found my commander, should I ever get into EDH.

Esper colors? Check.
Decent cost for what it does? Check.
Debilitating effects? Check.

I can run all my favorite colors with it!

The price tag, though, especially if I want to snag a foil one.... sigh.

(Would I trade an Avacyn for that? Hmmm.)

Interestingly that was my very first commander. I did have a foil one, but I sold it for quite a bit a while ago. They got a considerable buff recently too. In Commander you  used to only be able to generate mana of the colors your commander provides, and that hurt Sen Triplets since it made playing red or green cards from other people very difficult. Now you can steal their land and actually get full use out of it, or play their stuff out of five-color mana rocks or land.

I'm sure you've noticed by now that we have a different philosophy on lockdown, and I can tell you that I tend to play very softball Commander with a group with a lot of house rules. But anyway, I would caution you to be a little careful running lockdown in Commander. Not only will it make you enemies, which is self-policing to a significant degree and fair enough, but it will also slow down an already-slow format to an excruciating pace sometimes. Commander games already tend to run over an hour, and a vast majority of lockdown strategies seem to use slow, boring win conditions. Maybe some kind of hybrid deck that can hit hard but that has a lot of obnoxious disruption might fit in very well, but anything slow and meticulous may be too annoying to use after the first few games.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I'll keep that in mind, then.

I suppose having Modern be my preferred format as well as the one I learned how to play in has made me a little hypercompetitive-- but that's understandable, because you have to be willing to play rough to have a chance with the big netdecks. Over the time I've been playing, I've felt infinite combo wins to be unsatisfying and pure aggro to be actually pretty boring and repetitive, even if I was totally kicking ass with that budget Affinity deck. So I wanted to move on to homebrewing into the deck type that I've seen dominate the most around my area, and that's control, and to do that without being a complete copycat has meant that I've had to do shitloads of research of all the cards that could even possibly match the idea I have in mind. As a result, my desire to play Faerie Control began-- which has changed dramatically since last time: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/flickerfog-faeries/

The mana curve seems higher, but it plays way better than before. I may drop the Flickerwisps for smaller things like Augury Owl for scrying, Hanweir Militia Captain for power-boosting token generation, Consul's Lieutenant for team attack boosting, Imposing Sovereign to force opponents to summon things tapped so they're no threat to me, Judge's Familiar for more pinch counters, Kataki's War Mage as a counter to artifact decks, Kytheon, Hero of Akros if I really want to go all-out, Leonin Arbiter for search prevention (but that would fuck up my Harbinger), Meddling Mage for hand jamming, Realmwright for mana-fixing, Vault Skirge for more aggression/healing, Suture Priest for passive heal/damage, etc.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I think I found my commander, should I ever get into EDH.

Esper colors? Check.
Decent cost for what it does? Check.
Debilitating effects? Check.

I can run all my favorite colors with it!

The price tag, though, especially if I want to snag a foil one.... sigh.

(Would I trade an Avacyn for that? Hmmm.)

I've heard good things about Sen Triplets, the main thing being that it gives you a lot of flexibility with the type of deck you want to build and doesn't pigeonhole you into a specific strategy like some other commanders do.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Okay, analysis of my revamped Flicker deck:


- Absolute nightmare against other control decks
I took the deck to my LGS and played against one of the guys there who is definitely one of the best (or at least, most money-invested) players there. I playtest against him often, because he mains control decks and is well known for having a stupidly resilient Grixis Control deck. I beat him three out of five games-- I don't think I've ever beat that deck before.

Flickering is a fantastic mechanic against removal, because flickers are so useful-- I can use them to disrupt targeting and it gives me great field control. Your Lightning Bolts and Terminates mean nothing if they can't hit a target!

I could tell that even in the games I lost, I was making him nervous. That was reward enough.


-Absolute garbage against blitz and token decks
I played the LGS shopkeep a few times after the control guy left. His Izzet Blitz deck revolved around boosting Kiln Fiend and Nivix Cyclops being pumped by cantrips rather than the quintessential pump spells. Even Mistbind Clique was useless here, because all of his spells are instants, and I can't counter all of them. Not worth it. And tokens are too hard for me to board-control without more Declaration in Stones, and I'd much rather invest in Path to Exiles over those.


Notes:
Faeries super underperformed. They're fun, sure, but they are awfully slow. I should just give up on them until I suck it up and invest in Bitterblossoms and Mutavaults. So as much as I love them, they're out.
Flickering is such a powerful mechanic-- even more so than I originally thought. Burn and kill spells on my creatures are pointless, and bouncing enemies away with Reflector Mage and Flickerwisp leaving me open to attack leads to fun results, including straight-up no-selling attacks after blocking them, leaving me free to attack the next turn.

So let's emphasize that!

I've renovated it again:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/phase-distortion/

More flicker instants for more fun, more quick removal, and more punching power.

Notable additions:
Lingering Souls is back. Always nice to be able to get some chump blockers on the fly.
Blade Splicer is in-- ridiculously good to flicker, because multiple 3/3 first strike golems? Why the hell not.
Hanweir Militia Captain is in not only to lower the mana curve and give me something to play turn 2, but can become obscenely powerful when flipped. I was tempted to put Champion of the Parish in instead because it's faster, but Hanweir Militia Captain is more valuable overall.
Vapor Snag is in for quick removals with a little 1-damage slap in the face.

Avacyn is out, as much as I'm dying to use her. She just doesn't come out enough to be worthwhile, though she is sideboarded in case of token decks and slower decks.

[commandercool]

Do you think maybe Stonehorn Dignitary might work as a sideboard against aggressive decks? That's probably a stupid gimmicky idea that would never actually work, but on paper it helps with that problem.

I'm actually kind of surprised the deck doesn't do well against Kiln Fiends since flickering them loses them a ton of momentum (especially if it's from a repeatable source). If they're dropping all cantrips to power up then they're not losing cards I guess, but it seems like they would eventually run out of steam just by filtering into a bunch of land.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Stonehorn Dignitary is one I've not heard of before! I can see it having potential. I would consider sideboarding it, especially if I can tell the opponent has to rely on combat to win. The catch depends on WHAT creatures they're playing. If they're able to just block for days, that's bad for me because I need to attack to win, myself. Sure, I have removal, but keeping a flicker lock combo going is costly.

On the other hand, if it's stuff that I can remove, fly over with Flickerwisp, or overwhelm with tokens, it'd be great.


Anyway, in the deck's new revamp, it probably would do pretty well against Kiln Fiend/Nivix Cyclops-- especially since I specifically picked things that compensated for what it was weak to previously-- that is, more flickers, more removal, and more blockers.

The faeries just were not pulling their weight, but now not only can Eldrazi Displacer  completely fuck over a pumped-up Kiln Fiend (or a Flickerwisp flickered by the Displacer, even better to send it away for the turn), it can also be exiled away with Fiend Hunter (how fitting), or if Temur Battle Rage is not on the stack, chump-blocked with a Spirit or killed by a first-striking Golem token.

There's more potential for flicker combos in this setup too. Due to the space text on Fiend Hunter, I can flicker it multiple times upon casting to exile multiple creatures before it all resolves, which is very nice-- but I'm not so sure how amazing that capability is in practice-- is the first exiled creature from the initial ETB exiled only until Fiend Hunter leaves, or is it exiled completely, since the initial Fiend Hunter never completely resolved and thus does not exist? Either way, 2+ for the price of 1.

Flickering Blade Splicer is just *devastating*. Throw down some of the 1-drop flickers on her to get a bunch of 3/3 first-strike golems-- and she's a prime target for Flickerwisp or Displacer.

Overall there's a lot more combo potential here and it can punch quite a bit harder, which is always nice. My hypothetical playtests seem to be consistently winning around turn 6-9, which seems pretty quick for a control deck, yeah?

Other things I'm considering:
Sun Titan: "Flicker" my killed-off stuff from the dead? Sure, why not?
Momentary Blink: A little more expensive, but a nice pinch flicker if I end up topdecking unhelpful things.
Conjurer's Closet: A flicker every turn! High CMC though.
Feeling of Dread: Some nice tapdowns leaving me open for striking that I can call back as a surprise.
Supreme Verdict: Emergency killswitch if they just have something way too far out of control.