Miscelleneous Touhou thoughts and commentary.

[Drake]

Eiki, who ZUN says is the most powerful character in the series.

how is this still a thing

[game2011]

how is this still a thing

Yuyuko, Yukari, and Reimu combined are no match for her.

[Romantique Tp]

I think you've been reading way too many silly fanfics.

[TresserT]

Yuyuko, Yukari, and Reimu combined are no match for her.

Again, not to bring up power levels, but ZUN says Yuyuko, Yukari, and Reimu together could never beat her in an argument. Because, you know, she's the Yama. She basically knows every lie you've ever told. I don't know how powerful she is, but it's irrelevant because ZUN never said one way or the other.

[game2011]

Again, not to bring up power levels, but ZUN says Yuyuko, Yukari, and Reimu together could never beat her in an argument. Because, you know, she's the Yama. She basically knows every lie you've ever told. I don't know how powerful she is, but it's irrelevant because ZUN never said one way or the other.

Even so, the fact that even Yukari becomes nervous in front of her has to say something about how powerful she is.  In a series where firing projectiles at each other is the most common way for resolving issues, you don't simply become scared and nervous just by standing in front of someone who can only talk and not fight.  It makes sense for someone who is a/the ruler of life and death to be very powerful.

I think you've been reading way too many silly fanfics.

No, and you want to see what an actual silly, poorly made, ridiculous fan fiction is like?  All my years as a fan fiction writer and a common guest on FF.net has led me to see pretty much every kind of story humanity is capable of churning out, from the worst of the worst to the best of the best.

And if you must now, I have not come across anyone making a story that portrays Eiki being powerful.  I have only come across countless and countless of done-to-death and uninspired stories of Yukari being used as a plot device character responsible for pretty much everything.  I feel like crying every time I come across those.

In fact, stories starring Eiki are few.

[TresserT]

Even so, the fact that even Yukari becomes nervous in front of her has to say something about how powerful she is.  In a series where firing projectiles at each other is the most common way for resolving issues, you don't simply become scared and nervous just by standing in front of someone who can only talk and not fight.  It makes sense for someone who is a/the ruler of life and death to be very powerful.

Well, the original statement was "ZUN said Eiki is stronger than Yukari, Yuyuko, and Reimu combined", and I'm just letting you know that's false without getting sarcastic like everyone else so far. ZUN never said that. Speculation on why Yukari would be scared of the Yam's power or how strong the Yam is compared to Yukari falls into power level discussion, which I'm pretty sure is banned here. Of course, I have my own opinions on power levels and I'd be glad to discuss them with you in a PM.

[game2011]

In a series where conflicts are resolved using projectiles and Yukari being nervous when in front of Eiki, be it debates or actual fights, is proof to me that in the very least, Eiki is more powerful than her in combat.  Given the lore behind judges of the dead, it makes sense for her to be more powerful than a demon.

Note that I am not trying to continue this debate with the statement above.  I'm just saying that I am still convinced that Eiki is one of the most powerful characters in the series, or is at least more powerful than Yukari.

[PK]

Shooting at each others is the most common way to deal with things only when there are incidents, and Yukari and Yuyuko had no reason to fight to begin with. Yukari didn't even care about ULiL and LoLK events, do you think she would get involved in some silly auto-resolving flower incident?
Also, what about everyone else that faces Shiki in PoFV (including Youmu that certainly knows her because of Yuyuko)? They are all dumbasses?
Shiki isn't a ruler of life and death either, she just judges who is already dead. Perfect Memento pretty much says that every youkai go into hiding for the simple fact that she constantly nags about everything. You don't want her as enemy because she decides what happens to you after you die, but it has nothing to do with how powerful she is in the "mortal world".

[game2011]

That's still a sign of power to me.  And as I said earlier, her species are considered deities, and one that oversees death, so going by such a lore, it makes sense for her to be powerful.

[Tengukami]

And no, I am not trying to start a power level discussion.

HMMM...

[Drake]

This has been a long-standing misconception based on a shoddy interpretation that's itself based how on one single line, one single term, was translated. It ignores all surrounding context in the short story and in the characters overall, but the fandom is just oh-so-good at taking sketchily translated lines and turning them into something ridiculous that changes the entire way that character is seen.

Of course, we're referring to A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years. We're referring to the line "They must have come to watch the sinful violet cherry blossoms. You can't oppose them, so we'd better retreat, okay?", that was previously explicitly worded as "we're no match for them". We're acknowledging that Yukari, Yuyuko, and Reimu are there talking, and Eiki is approaching. Yukari says this line to Yuyuko, and they skedaddle. Magically, this now means that Eiki is the strongest motherfucker that exists because this must literally mean that even if all three of them ganged up on Eiki in a fight that Yukari somehow figured would happen if she showed up, they wouldn't be able to defeat her. Right?

It's really starting to frustrate me. There are so many levels of flubs that led up to this being a widespread concept, but I guess the fanbase just really likes it enough to stick with it, despite various efforts to fix it. That's why I wonder how this is still a thing.

I'll explain why everything is wrong in the morning or whatever.

[game2011]

HMMM...

I admit that my "misc. commentary" is basically a power level discussion bait, but I never intended to start one.  I just wanted to bring up something that's been on my mind to, perhaps, feel better.

<snip>

<Tengukami> Continuing to encourage the power level discussion is not a great way to not intend to have a power level discussion. We don't do these for a reason.

Let us please drop this "but is Eiki stronger than X" line of debate, everyone, thanks.

[Prime32]

This has been a long-standing misconception based on a shoddy interpretation that's itself based how on one single line, one single term, was translated. It ignores all surrounding context in the short story and in the characters overall, but the fandom is just oh-so-good at taking sketchily translated lines and turning them into something ridiculous that changes the entire way that character is seen.

Sakuya's dialogue in PCB when she meets Yukari.

[PK]

That could have just been Yukari's hyperbole to make herself look smart. The "yama" had nothing to do with whatever was going on in PCB.
In the same way, Sakuya says "oni are nothing compared to the Devil", trying to make Remilia (and consequently herself, since she deals with her every day) look great. But it doesn't mean Remilia is so fucking great that even oni are nothing compared to her.

[Tengukami]

Speaking of Sakuya in a non-power-level context, I know there are a lot of theories as to how she ended up working in SDM; vampire hunter, Lunarian who for whatever reason wanted to be a maid, or just one of the original staff. My personal theory is Sakuya is a vampire who was accidentally turned by Flandre back when the latter was less disciplined. This is why you always see Sakuya hanging around when it's mealtime, even though she doesn't need to be there. Pretty thin evidence, sure, but about as thin as a lot of other theories.

[kevin1127]

Every time I see a power level discussion in Chinese community, people bring up Reimu, Yukari, Yuuka, and those Lunarians.
Every time I see a power level discussion in English community, people bring up Eiki, Yukari, and Yuuka.

Do you see the similarities and differences?
Yes, the answer is there is no differences and the similarity is this discussion is useless and a waste of time

[Boomer]

Even as a member of the fandom, I still feel like a foreigner.  I feel that only 3 months of experience with the franchise is no valid excuse either.

[Drake]

3 months is honestly piddly time, especially on a forum like this where most of the active userbase has been here for years. That's totally fine.

[Tengukami]

Seconding Drake. I spent the first few months overwhelmed by the size of the cast and the sheer amount of lore in the games and written works. No one is judged or praised by how much time they've been in the fandom, though, so it ultimately doesn't even matter how long you've been here. Enjoying yourself is the main point.

[kevin1127]

Manga spoiler:

Spoiler:

OMG! Many weeks ago we got Sumireko in WaHH, now we have Nue in FS, finally someone who is most associated with urban legend does something about urban legend

[Shizzo]

I wonder what'd happen if Junko were able to get her hands on Chang'e.  Chang'e's pretty confirmed immortal in canon just as she should be, so do you guys think Junko would 'purify' the elixir out of her and make her mortal again?  Hmm.

[TresserT]

I wonder what'd happen if Junko were able to get her hands on Chang'e.  Chang'e's pretty confirmed immortal in canon just as she should be, so do you guys think Junko would 'purify' the elixir out of her and make her mortal again?  Hmm.

I was talking about this with someone... somewhere... though I fail to remember who or where. From what I can tell, Junko can pick a quality in a person on wipe away everything else about that person. So, while I obviously can't know for certain, I think Junko would be able to "kill" a person of hourai like you said. By choosing an aspect of them and wiping away all others, including their immortality.

[Drake]

Manga spoiler:

Spoiler:

OMG! Many weeks ago we got Sumireko in WaHH, now we have Nue in FS, finally someone who is most associated with urban legend does something about urban legend

Spoiler:

Surprise, she was in 24.

Also, I don't think that's how it would work. If anything, Junko might be able to turn someone who had only partially imbibed the Hourai Elixir into a full-blown Hourai immortal. Junko wiped away herself by essentially refining herself into an embodiment of her own hated, but that's only really because it had already taken over her entirely. There doesn't seem to be any evidence for Junko being able to pick and choose any quality, but rather just things that are already very prominent about that person. I don't think she could just isolate anything.

[kevin1127]

Spoiler:

Surprise, she was in 24.

Spoiler:

I'm pretty sure that's not (supposed to be) Nue, and "appear" does not mean she was there for only a page or small portion of it, she is formally introduced in 31.

[Drake]

I know what you mean, haha. But that is definitely her. Not only is the ribbon down her shirt the same, but it's a snake wrapped around her right arm and she has the band on her left.

[Shizzo]

My main point is just because well, being as smart as Junko is she must have an idea of what she would do once she gets to reach Chang'e right?  Killing her would be out of question since she's immortal so there's gotta be something.

By the way, I'm not sure if it's okay to ask or not but where are you guys finding the newer chapters of WaHH and FS?  Most sites I know only have them up to chapters 26ish.

[Tengukami]

Sorry, just a friendly reminder that we have a Miscellaneous Questions thread for miscellaneous questions; this thread is of course for thoughts and commentary.

[kevin1127]

By the way, I'm not sure if it's okay to ask or not but where are you guys finding the newer chapters of WaHH and FS?  Most sites I know only have them up to chapters 26ish.

Sorry, just a friendly reminder that we have a Miscellaneous Questions thread for miscellaneous questions; this thread is of course for thoughts and commentary.

I don't know if I should answer here or wait for the question is transferred to misc questions thread or not answering at all because this is not allowed

[Starxsword]

Of course, we're referring to A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years. We're referring to the line "They must have come to watch the sinful violet cherry blossoms. You can't oppose them, so we'd better retreat, okay?", that was previously explicitly worded as "we're no match for them".

A late response, but as far as I know, the term, "no match" when used without context has no meaning. I don't see how a change in wording would make it better.

Here are 3 examples of different contexts:

Yugioh: If Joey were to say, "I'm 'no match' against you" to Yugi, what does Joey mean?

Baseball: If I were to say, "The A's are 'no match' for the Giants", what do I mean?

Lack of context: If I were to say, "I'm 'no match' for Game2011", what do I mean?

[Tengukami]

It means to be ineffective as an opponent against someone/something, e.g., "Cavities are no match for Colgate Ultra" means cavities are easily defeated by Colgate Ultra.