Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Also, amount of posts =/= amount of content

A few of the inactives that I presume you are talking about (Affinity) have posted enough quality content that I would not really consider them for lurkscum over somebody who has contributed nothing original or worthwhile like Hourai. I'm also not willing to judge somebody with no content at all like Pesco and his cat, that should be left up to a modkill.

[capt. h]

capt. h: Hourai's play seems to be closer to drifting than PX's is, and his content feels less original than PX's and he seems to mainly focus on minor issues and silly mistakes when scumhunting. I guess I could be tunneled, but after his recent posts, I don't think that's the case.

That, and I'm not on him because of lurking alone.

Honestly, I became suspicious of the way Hourai said you never referred to Conqueror as scummy. She (he?) will need to be more precise with a claim like that, since that made me decide to double check her claim. You do in fact use the word "scum" when referring to Conqueror fairly frequently. See, if her claim was true, I would be suspicious of you. But her claim is false, and I would like to know if that claim is her being townie looking for scum  patterns or scum hoping for a claim townies wouldn't verify. A post with content from Hourai would be immensely helpful here.

What makes me suspicious of you is that I would like you to have a stronger case before pursuing someone, considering the cases so far. Once again, we need a post with content from Hourai to proceed.

capt.h: Do you still feel I am the best case right now?

I don't know.

[Serp]

VOTECOUNT  -  Even the Mod is a Ninja Edition

Conqueror (3)  -  Kilgamayan, Affinity, UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Shadoweh (3)  -  Schezo, capt. h, Dormio
huh what (2)  -  Shadoweh, Bardiche, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
Hanged Hourai (1)  -  huh what
NeoSerela (1)  -  Conquerer, Bardiche, Kilgamayan
Dormio (1)  -  Hanged Hourai, PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Zakeri (1)  -  NeoSerela, Hanged Hourai, Shadoweh
Schezo (1)  -  Zakeri, capt. h
UncertainKitten (0)  -  Bardiche
PX (0)  -  Shadoweh
capt. h (0)  -  Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Bardiche (0)  -  UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0)  -  Shadoweh, Conqueror

Not Voting:  Colt, Kitten4u, PX

With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch.  24 hours remain in the day.  Remember that if no majority is reached, there will be no lynch.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Once again, we need a post with content from Hourai to proceed.

I find his lack of good content to be the most telling regarding his alignment, though. Not that I don't want him to make an actual post, it's just that I think this mindset lets weaker lurkers off too easy.

[Kilgamayan]

Things that bother me that recent events have brought to light for me:

- The high tensions that seem to be running along this game. C'mon, people, calm down.

- capt. h serving as a clock tower. Yes, we all know K4U hasn't posting anything yet. If she continues to not post the mod will deal with her. D1 is not LAL time because there are too many potential outside circumstances. It is especially not LAL time when the person in question is in danger of being modkilled.

- Shadoweh's insistence that huh what was/is trying to force some sort of Conqueror/PX dichotomy. I read through all of his posts and didn't get a sense that he was trying to push such a thing at all. I saw him as suspicious of them both but still touching on various other players as he went along. Accusations of a dichotomy push are doubly questionable when huh what's vote had been on neither person up until very recently and then wasn't there for very long.

- Shadoweh's rhetoric in general. I read her posts and get the feeling she's trying to get by more on strength of words than strength of logic, or at least depending on strength of words more than anyone else in the game. This actually combos neatly back into the huh what dichotomy push here (and bonus points for the second example link in that post being identical to the first).

- huh what going into deadline panic when there's still about 24 hours to go. It's nowhere near panic time, especially not with the rate of activity this game has seen. (Unless you're seriously going to be absent for the next 24 hours in which case I think we'd all like to know that now.)

- Hourai's terrible spinjob on huh what's vote switching, as much as I disagree with the deadline panic. This has already been discussed by huh what himself, so I won't waste further space.

- The whole nonsense surrounding "huh what liked capt. h's points on Shadoweh! But does this mean he agreed with them?" and what's truly irritating is that it's coming from both sides. It was silly in the first place to say "I like them but I need to re-read to see if I can agree with them" and it's equally silly to go "you said you liked them you must have meant you agreed with them" when, as silly as the initial statement is, it says pretty plainly that he's not sure yet if he agrees with them.

Things that I like:

- Affinity.

- ...That's about it. :[

[capt. h]

I find his lack of good content to be the most telling regarding his alignment, though. Not that I don't want him to make an actual post, it's just that I think this mindset lets weaker lurkers off too easy.

Then let me rephrase my request.

##Unvote

##Vote Hanged Hourai

Please make a post with content immediately Hourai.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

To be perfectly honest, Kilga, I thought the deadline was a few hours earlier than it actually is due to mindscrew reasons, meaning that I'd be at school when it came around. I could elaborate on this but I don't think it'd do much beyond proving that I'm a derp.

[Shadoweh]

Oh you mod you.

- Shadoweh's rhetoric in general. I read her posts and get the feeling she's trying to get by more on strength of words than strength of logic, or at least depending on strength of words more than anyone else in the game. This actually combos neatly back into the huh what dichotomy push here (and bonus points for the second example link in that post being identical to the first).

I actually have no idea what this means. I believe that the way people say things is as important as what they're saying. Is there something wrong with that?

[capt. h]

Kilgamayan, Affinity, Huh What; the interactions between you three bothered me just now.

Why is Affinity above suspicion? You, Huh What, consider both Kilgamayan and Affinity to be townies here:

In contrast, I've been getting townie vibes from all the players on the Conqueror wagon up to this point, so that is noted as well.

And you, Kilgamayan, just declared Affinity to be the only thing you like about this game.

Please explain.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Huh? I'm confused how these things are related or how my opinions on Kilga and Affinity are even involved with your question.

[capt. h]

Huh? I'm confused how these things are related or how my opinions on Kilga and Affinity are even involved with your question.

Let me explain; at the time of your decision that conqueror was the better wagon, Affinity, Kilga, and Uncertain Kitten were all voting for Conqueror. You were getting townie vibes from that wagon. And Kilga just now declared that Affinity was the only thing he liked about this game. Why are you willing to just pass Affinity off as townie? The same goes for Kilga.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I've been finding that I agree with several of Affinity's points and haven't really found any of his actions this game to be very objectionable. Same goes for Kilgamayan, really. I don't know what to say beyond that.

[Kilgamayan]

Shadoweh: It obfuscates and gets people distracted from more important things by affecting emotions. It can even alter playstyles entirely; someone might get really mad and start tunneling on someone that isn't actually very scummy but has done plenty to piss them off, or someone may get scared or depressed and simply not want to keep playing, making them post less or stop posting entirely. I've seen countless examples of both throughout my playing "career", and it very often tends to lead to both scum victories (because town stopped playing the logic game) and hurt feelings postgame.

And even if it doesn't affect emotion much or at all, since I don't know your alignment, why should your conviction matter to me? "Well that person feels really strong about this position so it must have some merit" is not a smart way to play the game.

Basically, it not only isn't logical thinking, it can actually interfere with logical thinking, so yes, it is a bad thing.

Cut by capt. h: I like Affinity because I have liked the content of his posts the most of anyone in the game. There are certainly a handful people I don't particularly suspect but he's the only player with whom I'm actually happy.

[Serp]

capt h, your last vote and unvote were not counted due to lack of bolding.

[Serela]

dear god I'm moving all my stuff from one house to another and every time I look at the game there's at least two more pages of posts and auuuuuugh

Working on a post right now, but I'll make a few comments here I guess, from the things that stick out from my skimming. Sadface at Zakeri dropping a vote so ridiculously bad that apparently no one is even capable of taking it seriously (Which is quite understandable considering the situation, honestly) and then disappearing off the face of the earth.

At the moment I'm totally accepting of a Conqueror lynch both because of informational reasons and since there is good enough reason to believe that he is scum. Elaborating in my post coming, uh, very soon! Along with probably switching my vote to him.

[capt. h]

I want to be clear: I don't think any of you four: UK, Kilga, huh what, or Affinity, are acting scummy.

I'm getting this weird sense of teamwork though between the four of you. You, huh what, seem to have the other three's back when you said you were getting townie vibes from the conqueror camp. Kilga seems to have Affinity's back, and part of his post was a defense of one of your statements. I'll have to reread to be sure though.

[PX]

First off, to address this

Summary: One blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target. After Post #135 I can add Useless clarification of something that doesn't matter without answering any questions, addressing the rest of the game or being useful, along with not voting because he doesn't care anymore I guess? This is pretty scummy behaviour.

First off, post 135 is essentially me saying I was too tired to make a post at that moment. Many other people have made posts like this, what about it? Blantant wagon hop in ED1. Like we haven't seen that before. In fact, Suwako Moriya does the exact same thing, but you never mentioned that ever. All you two were arguing about was you misreading his post and him clarifying it. That's why I never mentioned your conversation with him, as it was pointless. Also, the not answering questions thing.
WHAT QUESTIONS?!?!?!?!
I'll also quote myself here.

Defend myself? So you want me to defend myself from... nobody? Please, if you got anything on what I said, then make clearly state it.

Unvoting, I'll get on that later. However, if you deleted most of your unfinished post TWICE, you wouldn't feel like finishing it either.

Now that that's over, to reread for the I lost count time.
h. capt: I like him a little more now since he's actually scum hunting, so he no longer deserves my vote. Although trying to judge people over post count is pointless.
At this point, I'm going to separate myself from the Conquerer comparison. Posts 103 and 104. I'm adding more backing to my current vote on h. capt while Conquerer says that he has no reason why his vote capt. h other than that his vote is already there.

As for the Conquerer wagon, I feel that it is a legitimate wagon, as the most interesting thing I find about it is that almost everyone who put a vote on Conquerer added more reasons on top of what the person before him said instead of just saying that everything has already been said.
Suwako Moriya: I don't see anything wrong with his posts or his logic, so he gets ☆☆☆☆☆ from me.
On reading Conquerer, I was going to see how he responded to the cases on him. He's responded to Kilga by saying that his vote is on the most "anti-town person". Then on his response to what huh, he says he's "voting someone for being scummier than the other options on the table." Then promises to defend against the other cases... and doesn't. However, your Serela vote is pretty sound. Basically, I agree with cases against you, but at least you've made a decent case now.
Affinity is the Golden Townie and his posts make much sense and are agreeable, as pretty much always....

Going to leave off here right now, and finish up after eating. There's already about 20 posts made while I was making this one post. Zakeri disappearing is 
But I agree most with the Conquerer wagon, and will park my vote there for now
##Vote: Conquerer

[Shadoweh]

Unless you have reason to believe UK, Kilga, huh what and Affinity have a way to communicate with each other besides being in the same scum team, teamwork is a scummy thing this early. I doubt that's actually what's happening.

Kilga: Oh boy are we not going to get along this game if we think that differently. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings even if my words to them could be upsetting, but I can't figure people out without getting a feel for them. Especially how they react to being attacked.

Cut by something big blue and obnoxious brb

[capt. h]

capt h, your last vote and unvote were not counted due to lack of bolding.

Right.

You know, I don't think it's scum team I'm seeing. Not yet at least.

##Unvote

##Vote Hanged Hourai

For the reasons I stated above.

[Shadoweh]

PX: I suddenly feel like a jerk because I forgot to actually put what I wanted from you in the form of a question. I wanted you to answer what you thought of the people playing the game besides capt.h, most importantly who else you think might be scum. I'm already not going after you more today but I would like to hear who else you think is bad still.

[Kilgamayan]

Shadoweh: You can still attack them just fine, as long as it's done with logic and suspicion. The other problem inherent to rhetoric - ignoring all the potential for rage and hurt feelings - is that it can rather look like you're compensating for a lack of logic. In your case in particular it very much looks like that because I see some strong words surrounding the whole huh what dichotomy-push thing but I don't see a lot of believable evidence for it (and, again, the carelessness in linking to the same post twice while employing that rhetoric is an added bonus), so it makes me think you're trying to push a bad case by making it seem stronger and more valid than it actually is. And I don't think we need to have a long discussion on whether or not deception is scummy.

Just remember; you're playing a team game. It's important to hunt scum, but it's also important to make yourself believable, both in regards to "is this case valid?" and "do I trust this person?". If you can't accomplish those, whatever scumhunting you do is very likely to be in vain.

[Conqueror]

I apologize in advance if my tone is unsatisfactory! However, I felt this would be a better way to get my points across than making numerous ad homs and nasty attacks at people!

Behold! The long-promised defence post. To be honest, I seriously considered not going to the trouble of writing this, seeing as I am shaping up to be the primary lynch regardless, but it will be useful for future reference. So!

I voted capt. h at the time because I thought that initial post might have been a scum slipup. I kept my vote on him because his posts did nothing to make him look more townie in my eyes. PX, in my opinion, was derp for jumping on capt.h with a vote immediately after I did, and while I found his vote and actions to be unpleasant, I did not feel it warranted a vote. Meanwhile, capt. h was generally being avoidant and unhelpful with his posts (and as far as I can remember, he later admitted as such!). I felt this to be more actively scummy. His latest stances have shown improvement, and although I do not find them altogether satisfactory and believe they deserve more scrutiny in the future, I felt a vote switch to NeoSerela, who is not a newbie and has no excuse for his weak stances, would be more appropriate. There! You can keep picking at my exact words if you'd like, but those were my intentions.

Responding to Kilga's #236, I will elaborate on several of my stances.

Hourai has not really produced any useful content as of late, and his votes have been all over the place! However, given his general negligable presence, and the fact that there are several others like him, I cannot think of a particular reason why I should choose to vote for him instead of the others. I have chosen NeoSerela over Hourai because NeoSerela's active lurking and bad voting patterns irk me more than Hourai's hit and run style!

UK is possible scum! Thinking back about her, I can't remember any stances from her except for her awkward jump to voting me in #153 when she had a sudden epiphany that I was scum! She also engages in a lot of useless chatter, like post #246, which makes a point so obvious I don't even know why she would make it! Her post:content ratio is absolutely abysmal! Do you remember UK's opinions? All I remember is that she dislikes me, capt. h, and Colt. That's it! To that end, I've no idea why Bard would unvote her to pursue a case on huh what! I would like Bard to address this!

More opinions:

I feel Kilga is probably town! No particular reason. Unlike other people, he comments on almost all of the options on the table, and generally has opinions to go with them! Despite the fact that he is tunneling in on me. :<

Affinity deserves further scrutiny. While he does bring up many good points and makes more general sense than most people in the game so far, I've felt a weird air of passivity about him. Basically, I don't think people should just write him off as town even though he has been producing some of the best content, logicwise, in the game so far. Ignoring the fact that I'm town, of course.

I cannot really say anything about huh what objectively because his posts rub me the wrong way, as opposed to Kilga's and Affinity's which seem to be fair summaries/analyses, however misguided they are. huh what's posts about me, especially that last paragraph of #252, twist my intentions and words like no others before! I would vote him for this alone but, again, I feel NeoSerela is more deserving of my attention. Aside from huh what's twisted vote on me and his silly case on Bardiche, I really can't say I disagree with the rest of his stances.

NeoSerela is still bad upon reread and I will probably dislike him more when he votes me! Vote stays.

I will post more opinions on other people shortly, and I will elaborate on these and other opinions on request! Note that if I am still the primary lynch target a few hours from now, I will be forced to claim, because then we can do something ~fun~.  :yukkuri:

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

In what way am I twisting your words? Point out examples, because there may be misconceptions on my part here.

[capt. h]

I'm not sure if this is relevant, if it explains a lot, or if it won't explain anything...

Conqueror, is English your first language?

[Shadoweh]

Kilga: I swear they were three different posts in my notes. I extra suck because I pointed out one of his links were wrong just before that. If you do a search of his posts on your own you will come across the words "PX and Conqueror" four times before Post #116, the post where he unvotes Bard and votes for Conqueror, using 'Conqueror is worse then PX' as his first reason. The rest of the case he makes against Conqueror isn't bad, which is why it was weird when he unvoted him.
I also find it odd that his initial suspicions of PX changed into support over a terrible post that ended in PX unvoting and giving up. If you believe PX's Post #179 was good, please tell me how so I can understand this. If he had said PX looked better after Post #286 I would understand.

Is this more logically palpable?

[Conqueror]

@huh what:
Perhaps twisting words is not the best way to put it. More like twisting intentions. In any case this is probably just due to different interpretations and I can't really fault you for it. I guess the best way to say it is that you have taken my actions and words and then assumed that I have the scummiest possible intent for them.

@Capt h. English is my first language.

[Serela]

post-postmaking-comment:hi welcome to the next episode of SERELA RANTING FOREVER, and no this post was not made in chronological order, I made paragraphs and lists and revisted and edited and copypasted things everywhere and idk

K. Reread the entire game. Dear god this game is already as long as some MotK games are when they end. Which is bad, since a game should not be so short unless it's only like 9 players maybe, but still so huge of a D1 oh jesus. This happened in Serp's last game as well, except it was more that everyone posted giant walls instead. Anywaaay, to the point. Points. With an S on the end.

Okay Conq stuff.
-Jumps vote onto capt.h for being a nib
...I'm done with the rest of my post and I forgot to ever come back to this part, ugh. And now I'm too burnt out to make a case on Conq. WHATEVER, I'LL BE HERE IN TIME FOR DEADLINE TOMORROW.

I don't understand Dormio's anything, but maybe it's because I need to sleep right now. This in particular makes me go "...huh o_O?"

Affinity
-Reminds me of bofh in that he doesn't post often, his posts are always large and stuff that pretty much everyone agrees with and then thinks Affinity is a golden townie and it's like this whether he's town or scum and it's kind of scary to think about. That being said, I see no reason to suspect Affinity is scum at the moment.

Ow my stomach hurts ow ow ow

-insert paragraph where I have a huhwhat and bardiche puppet show and bard is calling his serelavote beautiful and awesome and ending rvs and huhwhat is scum being evile and scummy and then I realize I'm being silly and delete the entire huge ass paragraph but anyway the point here is that in my reread he touched my heart and I saw the light and bard is 100% fine at the moment so whatever ow my stomach-

Response to something UK said and other people linked at me repeatedly since I didn't appear for awhile:Yes I know bad players are not excempt from being scum but they're still super easy targets for scum to jump on. The fact that MotK is usually all to happy to lynch them probably helps me give them a golden pass out of sympathy and whatnot which isn't necessarily good but hey, if they're scum, they've gone ahead and been lynched by everyone else at some point anyway if better targets have not appeared. If they really suck though, and no one looks super scummy, I'm usually okay with lynching them in the end since it's hard to tell between big newbtown (capable of anything) and newbscum, and they're a liability in LyLo.

K random other people comments. Capt.h; oh u. Hourai looks like Hourai being Hourai right now. Zak, as I said, silly vote that's really scummy if you meant it but we can't even take it seriously since it's so... well, you know, and then you disappeared off the face of the earth so. Colt/K4U... so little information. Going to pull a Short Circuit and plain-out say NEED INPUUUT before I can say a single thing about those people UK, Kilga, Shadoweh, they seem townie enough to me at the moment. Gah I can't think about more people then this at one time, too many people playing. Is it bad that I'll be happy once we're down to single digits?

Around page 7 my brain died. This D1 is too big.

Oh damn big Conq post ninjaing me. I do not have the attention span to do more then skim it, I'm sorry, but.

Note that if I am still the primary lynch target a few hours from now, I will be forced to claim, because then we can do something ~fun~.

Sounds interesting. I guess I'll see it when I get back from, well uh, guess I'll sleep and then school and then be moving more of my possessions to my new place of living and then I'll be back in like a day minus 6 hours or something

Can't think straight anymore, going to bed.

[Conqueror]

NeoSerela, I would like you to make your case now so I can totally dismantle it. Also the end of tomorrow is going to be a mess so make your posts as early as possible.

[Shadoweh]

Conqueror, please give an updated opinion on me. I'm not your scumpartner, so it's cool if you actually talk about me.

[Conqueror]

Also, Neo, I just read your entire post. I'm sorry to say it's basically useless.  :ohdear:

@Shadoweh I will be commenting on you and the rest of the players in my next post. I AM ON FIRE ARAAHRGHRG!