Author Topic: ZUN should have a donation box.  (Read 53561 times)

Blackraptor

  • Furniture
  • The guy with the thing over there at the place
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2009, 09:14:11 AM »
I support this movement and would happily donate to ZUN...if the chance every presents itself.

Just a thought...does ZUN work on his games while he is sober or drunk?

Helepolis

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  • O-ojousama!?
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2009, 10:29:14 AM »
Just a thought...does ZUN work on his games while he is sober or drunk?
Isn't the awnser too obvious?  :V

Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2009, 11:11:23 AM »
Just a thought...does ZUN work on his games while he is sober or drunk?
Isn't the awnser too obvious?  :V
Dwunk! *hiccup*

M. Burusu

  • ... What is that?
  • Who knows.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2009, 11:15:58 AM »
Just a thought...does ZUN work on his games while he is sober or drunk?
Isn't the awnser too obvious?  :V
Dwunk! *hiccup*

I'd like to think that he's drunk during the planning sessions, and sober when he's coding it all.
 
Hence how the games are seriously epic, and they work just as damn well. (Seriously, it takes some serious skill to make the games play as awesome as they do. ZUN deserves a freaking award.)
IceStage * + Aqua Navi, BN1-BN3 = Odd Idea
IceStage * + Aqua Navi, BN4-BN6 = Bad Idea

Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2009, 11:23:19 AM »
If I remember, in his blog he stated that he had to move to a larger house because he couldn't hold all of his fan's stuff...if you know the property price in japan I don't think a buck donation will make thing move for westerner, a big business plan for oversea would be better (something like...bigfish or steam?)

M. Burusu

  • ... What is that?
  • Who knows.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2009, 11:29:02 AM »
If I remember, in his blog he stated that he had to move to a larger house because he couldn't hold all of his fan's stuff...if you know the property price in japan I don't think a buck donation will make thing move for westerner, a big business plan for oversea would be better (something like...bigfish or steam?)

Maybe, but it doesn't mean we can't show our appreciation for the series he puts his time and effort into; perhaps a buck now and then isn't going to have a terribly large impact, but it still shows that the fans care.
 
Plus, something tells me that this 'donation box' is not going to be as bereft of tribute as Reimu's is.
IceStage * + Aqua Navi, BN1-BN3 = Odd Idea
IceStage * + Aqua Navi, BN4-BN6 = Bad Idea

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2009, 11:31:27 AM »
In that case, maybe we could all chip in to rent him storage space.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Firestorm29

  • Lily White Mage
  • Spring Time is Healing Time~
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2009, 11:55:32 AM »
I'd like to add in to that language, with my experiences and other shipmates in Japan, unless you ignorantly speak the language in a mockingly manner (KAWAII DESU NE?), I don't think it'll offend them. I know people who try to speak in Japanese, and they'll actually try to help you out with it... Taking effort to atleast attempt to speak a foreign language speaks volumes to people.

So I'd like to disagree with hammerin Drake so hard, pretty unnecessary. :/

Oh, and I'm pretty poor when it comes to Japanese, even more so since I haven't attempted the language in two years. I'm not a good source for help, as much as I'd love to be...

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2009, 12:11:26 PM »
A million times, yes. Making a sincere effort to speak/write a person's mother tongue is always appreciated. Of course it helps to learn if someone corrects your mistakes. "lol u suk moran" isn't that.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Drake

  • *
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2009, 05:23:33 PM »
お前様の子供を生みたい。 "omae-sama", weird use of 生む
      I realize the omae-sama thing, but if 生む isn't used, what verb would I use for conceiving?
でも、西洋に住むのです。 uh, okay I guess
      西洋に住んでいる would be better, I guess?
だって、私は気が済む円を贈る! nonsensical "だって", and I have no clue what 気が済む円を贈る is supposed to mean
      あなたにお金を贈ったらいい, maybe. It would be fine if I could send you money.
私ばかりか、西ファンダムさえ贈っている nonsensical use of ばかり, か, and さえ, and I still have no idea what you're doing with 贈る
      I was under the impression ばかりか acts as something like "not only". Although I worded the rest funny and I'm not sure how I would fix it.
どうしたら? uh, yeah, this needs to be less of a sentence fragment
      Yeah, got it.
btw 拝啓 and 敬具 are not commonly used in emails afaik.
      I know that, but it just sounded sillier that way which is kind of what I was going for.

If you couldn't tell people I'm being totally srs here so

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

bennelsey

  • Touhou fan-game Developer
  • Will make Touhou fan-games for food
    • EastGap
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2009, 04:22:02 AM »
Zun is a freaking God, he needs his offerings for the blessings that pirate downloads give

Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2009, 04:59:18 AM »
I'd prefer make a derivative work with his name credited as inspiration than giving him "a few bucks" from the original price. I just hope the Aki Anthology to be a success at C76, it would be the best way to thank him from international fans.

Wordspoken

  • Death Moe
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2009, 04:08:04 PM »
Guys you're doing it wrong. If you appreciate Touhou and want to give something to ZUN just send him a box of beer! Local beer of your country, he ought to appreciate it a lot more than money. [/2c]
This voice...sounds like a drunken loli. Is that you, Suika?

Drake

  • *
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2009, 06:38:49 PM »
It's much more difficult to ship stuff than send electronic money tbh.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2009, 07:36:02 PM »
All his games were on sale at Otakon, btw.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Stuffman

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Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2009, 08:02:06 PM »
How much were they going for?

No response BTW, wishful thinking I guess. Maybe I'll get around to buying PCB one of these days at least, since it's my favorite and I'd be willing to pay a bit extra for it.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2009, 12:22:05 AM »
How much were they going for?

From $25 to $35, depending. By the time I got to the booth, only PoFV was left - I was told the others sold out. So I bought it anyway just on general principle.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2009, 07:06:19 AM »
Touhou games cost about ten bucks in Japan. That is a very good value. Importing Touhou games is considerably more expensive, about twice as much. That is not a very good value.

The idea of digital distribution to negate the cost of importing crossed my mind, but then it occured to me that this is silly because everyone always downloads the games the day they become available anyway, and the point is to support ZUN, not to have legit copies of the game.

Therefore, ZUN should get himself a Paypal box or something for donations so westerners can send a couple bucks his way, clear our consciences, and merrily torrent his games as we always have. I would gladly pay about fifty bucks for all the touhou crap I have. ZUN gets free money, western fanbase looks better, nobody has to jump through any distribution-related hoops. Everyone wins.

Discuss.

It's great that you want to support the developer and I commend you for it. However, I think you're not looking at the picture as a whole. Having legitimate copies of the game supports Zun and the distributors who buy the game from him. It also respects the fact that he's developing commercial software. I can understand wanting to cut out the middleman if possible because it makes the prices more reasonable, but it limits his selling potential to not have said distributors to buy the games in bulk. Additionally, the idea of mutual unofficial piracy support is probably a bad idea fiscally. They'll only give what they think the games are worth and feel that's enough, instead of giving Zun what he wants for them.

The first idea of making them shareware I can mostly agree with. It would probably benefit his business model by increasing his customer base exponentially, eliminating packaging and allowing him to sell year 'round. It wouldn't make much extra effort on his part either. The second idea is closer to donationware, which usually isn't a commercial viability. Either way, I think there's one nagging problem that I believe was already mentioned; the foreign exchange rate. I doubt he's equipped to handle it himself directly and thus, it wouldn't even worthwhile for him to go to the bank and receive the money after all of the fees. As things are now, this isn't a problem for him.

Also, I don't think the importers are ripping us off. 30 dollars isn't a bad price for a rare quality 2d computer game to be delivered all the way from japan. It's actually a lot cheaper than the 50 or so dollars we pay for iffy new games and comparable to the price of most used classics we see in local retail stores. Let's not be bothered about it just when we don't get the direct manufacturer's price: As I see it, we're actually getting a comparatively good deal. Middlemen exist in virtually all industries and they need to make money too, when offering their services.

A massive multimillion-dollar drink company is on no conceiveable level with a single guy hammering out code in his free time.

Another point you're missing is that there are avenues where you CAN legally acquire his games and therefore support his work. If the games really were worth more than $15 to you, then you wouldn't mind paying the extra shipping fees or whatever.

While I agree with your second point as shown above, I disagree with your first. Big bad Coca~Cola? and lil' ol' Team Shanghai Alice are comparable, because they both offer their product in return for money. The only difference is that Coke is lots more people producing much more product in an organized and efficient manner, so they end up earning more. Let's not confuse great success with low humanity now. Big companies get a lot of work done and do so to profit. The people behind said companies are important to the process, as well as a heavy amount of responsibility and big demanding choices. Just because they make more doesn't mean they're not hard working people like the rest of us and as such, they deserve proportionate compensation for their effort. I think all of us would rather be richer than poorer if we could legitimately chose, so let's not be so quick to judge. Wether entities are big or small doesn't matter as regardless, there are people with aspirations and needs making efforts behind them. To put a new perspective on the manner, if Touhou became as big a name as Coke, would you think any less of it?

Uh, by the way, I'm sorry if I'm making the wrong assumption on what you think the difference between big corporations and the little guys is. It's a subject that comes up so often I habitually think "dehumanization". I think the idea of facelessness arises because people usually only see the brand names and the final products, thusly bypassing thoughts about the people behind them.

N-Forza

  • Information Superhighway Robbery
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  • I said it was a steal, but not for whom
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2009, 07:19:36 AM »
It's really really really hard to pirate soft drinks discreetly.

I probably overembellished a tad, but the point I was trying to make isn't that there is a difference between entities or humanity or whatever, but the how the product is handled after purchase due to their physical natures.

Putting that aside, it's all simple supply-and-demand here. If it comes to his attention how much effort people are going through to buy his games, I'm certain that ZUN will begin to accommodate this somehow. I remember reading an article about a company that localizes Japanese indie games, and they're definitely going after him. While ZUN hasn't consented yet for a number of reasons, the guy from the company said they are slowly convincing him. Just keep buying the games, and keep telling friends to do it, and sooner or later it may just very well happen.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 07:27:23 AM by N-Forza »

Wordspoken

  • Death Moe
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2009, 12:23:16 PM »
It's much more difficult to ship stuff than send electronic money tbh.
Yes, I agree. I just thought it was an alternative idea which nobody mentioned yet, so I said it.
This voice...sounds like a drunken loli. Is that you, Suika?

Vile Lasagna

  • Due to boredom
  • I'm mostly banned
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2009, 12:55:04 PM »
WTF donate? If Zun doesn't sell his games overseas clearly he doesn't give a shit about our money. With digital distribution everything is so easy. Bloody STEAM, ffs!
Zun makes this games for himself, we just happen to enjoy it.
rofl bye

N-Forza

  • Information Superhighway Robbery
  • *
  • I said it was a steal, but not for whom
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2009, 01:57:24 PM »
Zun makes this games for himself, we just happen to enjoy it.
This is all it comes down to.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2009, 03:45:06 PM »
I think ~500MB games would be ideal for paid DDL, but people will always want the merch - the CD case to display/post for others, or just enjoy themselves. Still, the digital age is here, and I think all mediums are moving gradually in that direction.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Vile Lasagna

  • Due to boredom
  • I'm mostly banned
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2009, 04:15:50 PM »
The thing about digital distribution is that by adopting it suddenly half the problems you'd have for distribution are gone. I sure like to OWN physical stuff, but since I mentioned Steam already, I'll say I'm quite satisfied with how convenient and simple everything is. And it's the same thing with what I bought from PSN. But by distributing your game through a platform like this you don't have to print the discs, make the boxes, find retailers...
rofl bye

Mima

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Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2009, 05:00:08 PM »
> Steam

Because Steam is very well known for it's hosting and distribution of lesser-known doujin games.

Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2009, 05:02:12 PM »
ahahaha Steam.

What's next, Valve get the rights, and sell a TF2 style vs. Touhou game where they promise awesome downloadable content only to make it into a $50 sequel instead. I'm sure ZUN would love that.

Vile Lasagna

  • Due to boredom
  • I'm mostly banned
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2009, 05:35:15 PM »
Steam hosts a lot of third party software that has nothing to do with valve and is a big and well know digital distribution platform (and a wannabe that kinda phails at being a community, but that's an entirely unrelated story) hence why I used it as an example. But, even so, make no mistake: start browsing that stuff and you WILL see a lot of low-budget stuff from completely unknown developers. There's no bigger example than Audiosurf for that.
rofl bye

Mima

  • Permabanned
  • By Benny1
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2009, 05:58:11 PM »
It's also English.

Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #88 on: July 20, 2009, 07:21:38 PM »
Oh I see N-Forza, yeah, less honorable people tend to do things that're easier to get away with more and are less considerate of others. Another difference between software piracy and physical theft is that some people feel they do less wrong for the former because there's no depletion of goods. I feel it's still wrong to take advantage of somebody's work without compensation, be it mental or physical work, though I won't go into details as this isn't really a piracy topic, per se.

The more relevant issue about Zun going international is his reaction to the unofficial anime project. He understandably seemed adverse to losing any creative control and more relevantly to this topic, reluctant to make any big thing of Touhou because it's just something for himself. Now this is just an errant thought but I think if he's reluctant to increase even just the japanese fanbase, he probably doesn't want to make it a worldwide phenomena to be at the center of either by expanding his distribution base either. His answers in the interviews always seem to state that if there's any fanbase to share this with that's nice but the he's really just doing this as a simple little hobby as opposed to trying to strike it big and make lots of money. This sort of humble attitude is great, yet it fares badly for expanding commercial enterprises towards the west. If he really wanted to strike it as a big famous guy with these games, I'm sure he could've done so by now, considering how they're virtually marketing themselves worldwide already.

In short, as things are now, I'd think he's quite content just fashioning the games for whomever just so happens to have a natural desire for them. I also doubt he wants to deal with the hassle of anything more. This kinda leaves us out in the cold since international commerce is quite a difficult monster to overcome, especially all by one's self.

By the way, concerning the want-to-be publisher, how do we know they're legit? I vaguely remember in the Cave Story community there was a huge controversy over a similar manner over a potential PSP port of that game. I think the company was called Variant Interactive or something, it sounded like shady business. Also, I believe Shareware is definitely a better model than Steam, considering Zun already has a site you can download demos from 'n such. There's really no need for a silly lil' shell app unless he can't do or have somebody else do the registration code for him.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: ZUN should have a donation box.
« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2009, 07:42:59 PM »
Still, I have yet to see anyone adverse to being given free monies. I think that's the main idea here - donations as a show of support/appreciation.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."