Author Topic: Shin Megami Threadsei  (Read 10048 times)

チソウ タイゼン

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Shin Megami Threadsei
« on: July 19, 2013, 05:43:59 AM »
Because I'd like to believe that there are more than a few who play these games, right? Discuss!



Anyway, who else has got the latest installment? Certainly I'm not the only one who picked it up first thing on launch date? >_>
It is, I'm pleased to announce, probably the most difficult game I have ever played. I've just entered Tokyo, but not without fifteen TPKs and repeated visits to Charon.

Seriously, that Smirk shit is fucking bork. Minotaur completely floored my party on the first turn, which I spent casting Sukukaja and Rakukaja >_>
I did not have nearly as much trouble with either Persona 3 or 4 and not even with Nocturne.
DDS, maybe. Should I return to Digital Devil Saga? It's been a while.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 01:32:17 PM by theshim »


Garlyle

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Re: Shin Megami Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 10:53:42 AM »
Digital Devil Saga is bitchin' and you should return to it.

Spoilers: Magic-centric builds ruin everyone in SMT4.  Especially bosses.  I've had several mid bosses I've killed before they even got to act because I'm already doing like 200+ damage against weaknesses with first-tier spells.  Going to spend a few more hours with it once I grab something to eat and return home because I'm probably about to come up on another major boss fight.

For those who do play SMT4:
STR affects sword attack damage and adds about .75 damage per point to physical skills (gun or sword)
DEX affects gun attack damage and adds about 1.5(!) damage per point to physical skills (gun or sword)
aka STR sucks ignore it and go DEX
also most people are confirming that 1 AGI per level seems to get you hitting pretty reliably with physical and magical skills though phys builds might wanna do like 2 AGI one level and 1 AGI the next just for those inaccurate but awesome skills.

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Re: Shin Megami Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 12:56:17 PM »
I haven't gotten SMTIV yet! D: Too many games to get!!

Also, finish DDS. It be bitchin'.

I'm an SMT nerd, basically played almost all of them up until recent times (the only ones I haven't played are the incredibly obscure ones, and for the record I did play Ronde and the other Majin Tensei games. I think the only ones I didn't play were Giten and NINE). Majin Tensei was the "interesting" SMT take on the SRPG genre.

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 01:33:51 PM »
I am deeply disappointed in you but have updated the thread title accordingly.

Also I really need to pick up SMT4 (likely will next week once I finish this run of TWEWY; side note, TWEWY is the best game) and finish DDS. :(

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 01:41:37 PM »
I have SMT4 sitting right here, taunting me with its existence.

But I have to finish fucking Project X Zone first. <_< I'm on like the second-to-last level or something.

Garlyle

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2013, 02:09:45 PM »
I know the feeling, I should probably finish off PXZ first.

...But at the same time SMT4 is just so much better ):

Also: I think I've figured out what Smirk does exactly - it seems to briefly max out all of your -kaja states regardless of what they did before.  At least I think that's what it's doing - I know I don't see my damage increasing if I have +3 Attack already.  ...Because yes, that's exactly what a boss needs in an SMT game - the ability to max out their own buffs @_@

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 05:59:45 PM »
People on GameFaqs seem to have arrived that the consensus that Smirk, is, in fact, a triple Heat Riser / Luster Candy. But it's still fucking bork.

Quote
I am deeply disappointed in you but have updated the thread title accordingly.

I can't believe that I didn't think of that, but I will note that I am now severely disappointed in myself.

blehhh on the subject of DDS, I've just booted my save file to check, and it's like, I'm in some dreadfully annoying place called Coordinate 136, on the third floor. My party is level 25 and I'm 10 hours in.

It's felt a lot longer than the ten hours that I've put into SMT4 >_>


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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 06:59:58 AM »
I have SMT IV, but I haven't played it yet. I just don't have 40+ hours to play a game right now.  :V

I also have to finish P4G...
Spoiler:
I'm right before the hospital scene.

And yes, you should return to DDS. I'd call it my favorite of the SMT games. DDS can be a bit slow, but it is pretty much worth it. Both of the games together took me about 60-80 hours to complete the main story.

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2013, 09:48:15 PM »
Earlier this year I started playing Shin Megame Tensei 3: Nocturne, and was doing quite well (dying on the tutorial battle aside) when MATADOR happened. I cried and cried and before I managed to kill him my 7 years old PS2 finally died for good. I guess it got tired of seeing my dying again and again and again and again and again and again and again
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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2013, 11:02:26 PM »
Earlier this year I started playing Shin Megame Tensei 3: Nocturne, and was doing quite well (dying on the tutorial battle aside) when MATADOR happened. I cried and cried and before I managed to kill him my 7 years old PS2 finally died for good. I guess it got tired of seeing my dying again and again and again and again and again and again and again
Matador's basically the boss meant to show you "Yeah, this isn't gonna be some pansy cakewalk, but you'll need to plan your team and use some strategy".  You did notice he relied mainly on two things, correct, namely Hit/Evade modding and wind magic?  Both of those can be countered if you have the right demons with you, and/or have the right Magatama equipped and learn the right skills. 
Spoiler:
Get Fog Breath. Seriously.  GET FOG BREATH.  2 levels of Acc/Evade debuffing on the entire enemy party.  Pretty much as close to broken as you can get right now, IIRC.

I'm sorry for your PS2, but luckily they're cheap enough to replace now since they're so old.
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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2013, 11:27:30 PM »
SMT Nocturne is one of the few games I've played in the last years that I followed all the way to the end. That game was really fucking hardcore when on hard difficulty.

It's my personal favourite out of all of the SMT I've played so far because the battle system was so challenging and so fun at the same time. I remember repeating the last battle on hard over 20 times with all level 99 MC, Shiva, Metatron and Surt. Surt was a fucking beast due to his fire-based physical damange, he took forever to fuse giving him phys/ice repel and whatever else he needed but it was so damn worth it.

I try not to play games anymore because they consume lots of time but I still just wish so hard that there was a game that had that exact battle/recruit system and a different storyline. Is SMT IV supposed to be like this?

trancehime

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2013, 01:36:56 AM »
I try not to play games anymore because they consume lots of time but I still just wish so hard that there was a game that had that exact battle/recruit system and a different storyline. Is SMT IV supposed to be like this?

Basically yes.

Anyway, everyone should play Nocturne Chronicles, is good. If only because
Spoiler:
Raidou is playable aside from Dante

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2013, 02:16:59 AM »
Matador's basically the boss meant to show you "Yeah, this isn't gonna be some pansy cakewalk, but you'll need to plan your team and use some strategy".  You did notice he relied mainly on two things, correct, namely Hit/Evade modding and wind magic?  Both of those can be countered if you have the right demons with you, and/or have the right Magatama equipped and learn the right skills. 
Spoiler:
Get Fog Breath. Seriously.  GET FOG BREATH.  2 levels of Acc/Evade debuffing on the entire enemy party.  Pretty much as close to broken as you can get right now, IIRC.
Gods damnit, I should've invested in a demon with more debuffs. I tend to insist on keep doing the same strategy again and again anda again until it works (and by strategy, I mean "try to kill it as quickly as possible"), but this was clearly not the kind of game that allows that.

Thanks for the tip, as soon as I can get back to playing it I'll try that.

I'm sorry for your PS2, but luckily they're cheap enough to replace now since they're so old.
Unfortunately they are still expensive around here. At least, if you don't want to buy an used one. I have bad experiences with that...
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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2013, 04:04:09 AM »
I got into the series through Persona 3 FES. Enjoyed it a lot, so I eventually got Strange Journey (which I honestly regret buying for $40). Been keeping up with SMt4 vids, and I'd totally get it if I had the money and a 3ds.

Also, what's the physical defense stat in SMT4? Vitality seems to be absent from it.

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2013, 04:55:04 AM »
I try not to play games anymore because they consume lots of time but I still just wish so hard that there was a game that had that exact battle/recruit system and a different storyline. Is SMT IV supposed to be like this?
Actually?  Yes.  that's Exactly what SMT IV is.

Also, what's the physical defense stat in SMT4? Vitality seems to be absent from it.
There are no defensive stats - magical OR physical - in SMT4.  Only HP and resistances.

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2013, 05:40:51 AM »
Something that irks me about SMT4 is that Magic doesn't factor into healing at all. My Oni is equally apt at restoring HP as, say, my Uzume.

I've instead decided to pour all the healing on my MC, for the time being. Dia + 7 and Media + 5 are quickly becoming outclassed, however.


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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2013, 07:47:28 AM »
Quote
There are no defensive stats - magical OR physical - in SMT4.
You're saying that like there's no DR at all, which is likely untrue. I think it probably goes on some mix of your Vit/Mag and experience level like Nocturne.

A better thing to say is that there are no "derived stats".
I need an option, a reason, and some hope.

Garlyle

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2013, 08:48:44 AM »
You're saying that like there's no DR at all, which is likely untrue. I think it probably goes on some mix of your Vit/Mag and experience level like Nocturne.

A better thing to say is that there are no "derived stats".
No, there's legitimately no damage reduction in SMT4.  There is no VIT, and MAG has no impact on the damage you take from spells.  It works for enemies too - nail a group of varied enemies with Maragidyne, and they'll all take the same damage (counting for variance) excluding their resistances kicking in.

Also, derived stats would indeed be  the term for 'things based off of your stats and level'.

Anyway, Rakukaja/Tarunda are more important than ever as a result (It is a modifier to damage taken/recieved still) and fortunately they're available super early.  There may be some passives that can do useful things in terms of taking damage later, but I sure haven't found any yet.

Something that irks me about SMT4 is that Magic doesn't factor into healing at all. My Oni is equally apt at restoring HP as, say, my Uzume.

I've instead decided to pour all the healing on my MC, for the time being. Dia + 7 and Media + 5 are quickly becoming outclassed, however.
The main character can use Dia+/Media+ and equip accessories that increase healing; demons will need Heal Pleroma passives to become more effective healers.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 08:53:03 AM by Garlyle »

trancehime

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2013, 01:37:54 PM »
Correct, the only stats are: STR, DEX, MAG, AGI and LUC

There's still some study about how damage is calculated. But definitely seeing some patterns regarding basic multiplication.

EDIT:

official complete guide says this for magic damage:

{ ( skill.pwr + MAG * 4.5 ) / 3 * buff.mults * element * weakness.mod / avg.hits + skill.plus.mod } * difficulty.mod + rand(0...15) truncated

« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 01:41:33 PM by trancehime »

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2013, 05:30:47 PM »
Nerrrrrrd :V /hypocrisy But really, a lack of a defense stat sounds like a bad design choice imo. That Llam Dearg doing you 50 damage with Gram Slice while you're at Level 99.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 08:38:27 PM by Honest Espeon »

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2013, 11:04:55 PM »
I'm not sure I like the lack of a vitality stat, making demons less unique, but I do like how you need a COMPLETE party wipe now to lose. It makes up for the fact that you can get completely wrecked anytime the enemy gets a first turn advantage. Well that and the instant-saving. Portable usability hooooo--

Overall, having a blast. Then again, I'm not sure there has been an SMT game I disliked. Even the first Raidou game, despite boring me for 70% of it, had such an incredible, nostalgic, nerd-charged finale I could not help but love it.

trancehime

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2013, 10:00:05 AM »
Nerrrrrrd :V /hypocrisy But really, a lack of a defense stat sounds like a bad design choice imo. That Llam Dearg doing you 50 damage with Gram Slice while you're at Level 99.

Proof that you can still get rekt even if you grind.

Which is a GOOD design choice.

I'm not sure I like the lack of a vitality stat, making demons less unique,

Passives exist that add resistances and the like. Use those.

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2013, 05:02:47 PM »
Proof that you can still get rekt even if you grind.

Which is a GOOD design choice.

That's another way of looking at it, but it'd make going through old areas with autofight to find stuff you couldn't at first not an option. But then again, the encounters are on the overworld instead of randomly-appearing, so perhaps that makes it a non-issue.  ???

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2013, 09:59:08 PM »
On the flip side, it makes feasibly defeating things without resistance manipulation requiring some amount of grinding, I think.

Anyway: Xi Wangmu. My party is level 30 and I'm still dying, there is something wrong
Three of my demons are equipped with force; two resist physical and one absorbs elec, what do


Garlyle

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2013, 01:13:24 AM »
On the flip side, it makes feasibly defeating things without resistance manipulation requiring some amount of grinding, I think.

Anyway: Xi Wangmu. My party is level 30 and I'm still dying, there is something wrong
Three of my demons are equipped with force; two resist physical and one absorbs elec, what do
She triggers the mid-battle event after being attacked three times, after which you'll be immediately set into a new Player Turn.  If you arrange this right, you can have max Sukukaja & Rakukaja before she even gets to act.  (Sukukaja is especially useful in this battle - she seems to have a notably lower hit rate than other bosses so far)

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2013, 08:34:08 PM »
Just finished Shin Megami Tensei IV. Ended up getting the law ending. Funny, I always though I hated law, but the ending in this game was kinda serene in a way. Though it made me really uncomfortable at points. Definitely going to play again to get the neutral ending (which I was going for but had no idea it was so tricky to get). This was a really fun game and I had a lot of fun...which you can probably tell if I beat it 8 days after it came out. x_x

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Garlyle

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2013, 03:41:55 PM »
>Devil Survivor's Ogre is level 4
>SMT4's Ogre is level 44
????

I must be nearing the halfway point I'm at level 46 already.  Either that or I've somehow ended up overlevelled.  173 MAG Megidos with the passive MP regeneration apps = I trash every single random encounter without even trying.  Plotwise, I just entered Reverse
Spoiler:
Hills
.  Going to make a wild guess that
Spoiler:
soylent red is people
.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 03:50:58 PM by Garlyle »

Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2013, 03:02:34 PM »
Welp. I'm going to have an 8 hour bus ride on Monday so I've been looking out for some game to play on the PSP to not get bored to death. I was planning on playing Dangan Ronpa but I finished it earlier than expected so...

I tried Persona 3 a few years ago, right after I finished SMT Nocturne which I'd say ended up being one of my favourite RPGs ever, and Persona 3 looked really meh in comparison, but I didn't get to give it much of a chance and don't think I got past the battle tutorial so... I'm looking into the Persona games now but I'm unsure as to which one is closest to Nocturne in game mechanics. I read that the PSP Persona 1 remake has demon negotiation and the sort which I really liked, the downside being the lackluster graphics but I've never cared much for graphics anyway. I'm leaning towards getting Persona 1 after that but I don't know much about the other two?

Can you guys recommend one of the Persona 1, 2, or 3 games? or just some short info on what's similar or different among them or relative to SMT Nocturne would be a great help too.

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2013, 03:43:47 PM »
...None of them are really close to Nocturne...
You gain the demons in a totally different way, you have established human character party members, and the demon negotiation in P1 and P2 is just to get fusion cards and items and junk.

Of the P1 ~ P2 duology, you can't really go wrong starting with either, but P3 very tangentially ties into P4, so if you care for story, then getting through P3 before P4 might be the way, despite P4's ridiculously improved mecanics (Which is a moot point if you're playing P3P, which contains elements imported from P4 anyway soooo)


trancehime

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Re: Shin Megami Threadsei
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2013, 06:16:26 AM »
If you want to play P2 play Innocent Sin first >_>

Eternal Punishment was translated (officially) first and it took so long before Innocent Sin got an official localization,

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