Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Rika and Nitori's Garage Experiments => Topic started by: Helepolis on January 24, 2015, 03:15:35 PM

Title: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on January 24, 2015, 03:15:35 PM
Information is incomplete, there are few important links we found which needs to be processed. Content information is subject to change.

Warning: This thread is a general information, inquiry and possible experimental discussion thread. The elaborate discussion of your fan work or specific work doesn't belong here. Any irrelevant discussions or hostile posts will be moderated or removed.


※ How to make Touhou derived work ※

ZUN's guidelines in a nutshell
If you want to make touhou derived work you're allowed to as long as you stick to the guidelines (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights) written by ZUN. Some confusion seems to exist but it is very simple:


I want to sell my work(to make profit)!
Doujin work is a hobby activity, meaning usually Doujin circles or individuals have no purpose of making money as a profit by default. That is why people will frown if you purposely make a fan work, just to make some cash. But if you insist on selling your work, you need to follow the guidelines of ZUN which is basically:

Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on January 25, 2015, 08:40:16 AM
The boundary explained between Doujin and Indie
Doujin & Indie are NOT the same.  Below Ruw-san (ルーさん) explains it very roughly from a relative view point. Note that this is not a written law or guideline but a graph to reflect the differences between them. However, it is smart to understand it as it might impact your fan work. It also shows what happens when a certain work tries to evolve into something.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8F1tK2CQAA-C7J.png:large)
Ruw-san's very rough and relative view on Indie & Doujin boundaries (credit goes to Ruw-san from his Twitter. Original tweet here (https://twitter.com/Ruw/status/558857250417033216/photo/1))

The graph states 2 important facts. An Indie work CAN be transformed into a Doujin work, but a Doujin work CANNOT be transformed into Indie work. Basically: Your Touhou fan work can NEVER be claimed as your Indie work and can also be never published under Indie discipline. Because you are operating in the Touhou Guideline box (yellow).

- The black dot shows the starting state of a project. (A book, 4koma, fangame, etc)
- The arrow shooting out from it shows the path it takes. (Development, production)
- The white dot resembles a milestone or release moment. (Pixiv, personal webspace)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on January 25, 2015, 08:40:21 AM
- Reserved post for future info -
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 25, 2015, 03:44:23 PM
Asking for money as direct aid to make fan work is not allowed. "Please give money to do X Y Z". Examples are: begging, donations, crowdfunding and similar cases of direct monetary help.
I thought we had learned that donationware is an acceptable means of receiving money. Am I confusing something?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Kilgamayan on January 25, 2015, 04:29:17 PM
You can accept donations, you just can't ask for them.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 25, 2015, 06:15:30 PM
Would putting say a Paypal donate button on a page saying something like "Donations are appreciated" count as 'asking' for them?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Suspicious person on January 25, 2015, 06:49:41 PM
I'd like to add a few precisions regarding the distinction between indie and doujin and why Touhou works are exclusively doujin :

At their "birth", it's not possible to classify such or such work as "doujin" or "indie" yet : I'll use the word "amateur" instead, and explain how an "amateur" work can become either "indie" or "doujin" :

Amateur works involves meager means for the development of the work (but the motives may vary): the developper (one person or a group) is likely to be in deficit, but he have two options : 1/ try to make profit or 2/ keep the work as it is. Option 1 essentially means that the amateur work'll be made for the sole purpose of profit and get labelled as "indie", while option 2 will keep things as they are and might as well be labelled as "doujin":

Indie works :
Since we already know that it's made for the sake of profit, just consider this as small scale COMMERCIAL work instead : the indie developer will aim for profit and follow the same reasoning professional have (hence resorting to crowdfunding to get more means for development's sake and aim for "big" distribution platforms): Indie works might as well be commercial ones, and therefore cannot fit in the scope of "doujin" (we'll talk about the case of Touhou doujin later)

Doujin works :
This is essentially the amateur work, except with a Japanese name and cultural add-ons. You do not make your work fit into this category, but it'll be considered as doujin automatically. It's a hobby, it's not aiming for profit (thus money is a very sensible topic, here), it's a niche genre that does not delve in the mainstream (hence the specialised distribution channels). There is an "ideal" for doujin works : not following that ideal (ie: choosing to aim for profit instead) will get you frowned but not punished : your work'll simply stop being considered doujin but indie.
同人 "doujin"
The word "doujin" consists of two kanji: 同 "the same", and 人 "people". The actual meaning of the word is "like-minded people", and 同人誌 "doujinshi" means "magazines by like-minded people". The word "doujinshi" was coined by the literary circles of Meiji era to refer to the non-commercial magazines they editted and produced themselves. According to wikipedia (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%90%8C%E4%BA%BA), at the beginning of Comic Market and otaku culture, the early otaku actually borrowed the English word "fanzine", referring to their self-published manga as "manga fanzine", and the adoption of the "doujinshi" word took place later.

I don't think the concept of "doujin" is particularly hard to understand if you look at its roots: people who share the same hobby gather together, and exchange their self-published writings or drawings. The early otaku would have preferred to exchange their works one by one; they only started charging money to simplify the process and cover each other's expenses. The otaku are far from saints, but they did not, and still often do not make doujinshi while wishing to make money, or let people outside of their own fandoms see their works. The vast majority of doujin creators still do it at a deficit.

These are how doujin and indie are in a nutshell.
Now, regarding Touhou DOUJIN works : Touhou doujin are unique in the aspect where they are the only doujin works that follow a specific guideline. In essence, the guidelines put a distinction between 2 categories of touhou works :
-The regular fanworks
-Commercial works

About the regular fanworks :
We've already established that not following the doujin way of doing things will earn you nothing more than some frown. BUT! As far as Touhou doujin goes, you MUST follow the doujin method :
The guidelines allow you to make use of ZUN's IP without consulting with him ONLY if you follow the doujin way of doing things, otherwise you're ground for copyright infringment. So long as you plan on doing a regular Touhou fanwork (ie: fanbook, fanart, fanfiction, fangame, etc...):
※ How to make Touhou derived work ※

ZUN's guidelines in a nutshell
If you want to make touhou derived work you're allowed to as long as you stick to the guidelines (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights) written by ZUN. Some confusion seems to exist but it is very simple:
  • The guidelines create a play ground for you to make fan work. No matter what, ZUN remains the Intellectual Property owner of Touhou Project.
  • Asking for money as direct aid to make fan work is not allowed. "Please give money to do X Y Z". Examples are: begging, donations, crowdfunding and similar cases of direct monetary help.
  • You can publish your work for smartphones as long as they are free and without any profit-mechanism (advertisement, premium, upgrade, etc.)
  • Your work cannot be published on Steam and similar platforms. It doesn't matter if it is for free or paid.
  • Your work cannot be published on consoles for now like WiiU, Xbox, etc. (A PS4/Vita Doujin fan game opportunity for Japan is being made. Read here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17316.0.html))
  • If you decide to release your work on your own website, you are not allowed to ask money for it.
  • Additionally, you are not allowed to sell your work online through websites or programs if they:
    • Don't have relationship with Touhou Project or ZUN.
    • Are not Doujin orientated. (For example: Devian Art is NOT a Doujin and Touhou affiliated website. You can post art, but cannot sell it.)

  • Regarding naming your work, there are a few things you should keep in mind (source (http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Yoyo/1736/t-081-4.html)):
    • The title or name should not match actual names in Touhou Project. (Do not call your work "Hakurei Reimu" or "Hakurei Shrine")
    • The title or name should not cause easy to mistake for an official work. (Do not call your work "Imperishable Night Gaiden")
    • It is preferable to not call your work "Touhou XXX". In a 2013 seminar, ZUN said he considered making this a rule, but didn't do it.


I want to sell my work(to make profit)!
Doujin work is a hobby activity, meaning usually Doujin circles or individuals have no purpose of making money as a profit by default. That is why people will frown if you purposely make a fan work, just to make some cash. But if you insist on selling your work, you need to follow the guidelines of ZUN which is basically:
  • You're allowed to sell your work physically at events as a booth or circle owner (Example: (Touhou) cons, Comiket and Reitaisai)
  • You can only physically sell your work in one of the Doujin and Touhou affliated stores in Japan only! (Example: Melon Books, Comic Toranoana)
  • No, you cannot sell your work digitally anywhere, not even in Japan. (?)
By following the doujin method, ZUN's permission should not and should never be an issue. Do note that he have the right not to allow you to make your fanwork if he doesn't want you to.

About the commercial works :
Unless you are a representative of some company (or the like) and plans to commercialise a Touhou product, this should not be an issue for you (see above). But if you are, you will need ZUN's permission to do so. Do note that ZUN is not good with english, and might be busy dealing with other issues so you might have to need to wait for an undetermined period of time before you receive his answer. You MUST RECEIVE his answer before going on, otherwise you're illegaly using someone else's IP, with everything this implies (No answer does NOT imply "Yes, you can go on"). Obviously, if ZUN does not accept your request, you cannot go on.

So long as you plan to make a work based on Touhou project, you will have to respect it's guidelines. You join the game, you play by the rules.
Essentially, here's what you need to know about the different types of works regarding Touhou :
-Indie : aims to be commercial, therefore Touhou based works CANNOT follow the Indie method
-Doujin : Touhou works go in this category and MUST follow the Doujin method

I hope this was clear enough.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on January 25, 2015, 06:53:39 PM
What if I find a work that violate some of these rules (like a paid Android APK or an APK with adds), how to proceed?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: crescentia on January 26, 2015, 01:28:44 AM
Touhou music produced by Western circles released on Bandcamp/similar platforms with a "name your price" option - thoughts?

Also, from a wider perspective, I don't really like Ruw's diagram as a guideline for Doujin as a whole.  This may be because of certain things that are implied or lost in translation, but either way I think it raises more questions than it answers for a Western audience.  For instance, there are some notable examples that directly contradict the guideline that Doujin works cannot become Indie works (or any other type of commercial works) - i.e., TYPE-MOON's transformation from doujin to commercial company; to a lesser degree 07th Expansion's Nintendo, Playstation, and (recently) Steam releases... are these particular groups 'frowned upon' for not adhering to the ideal?  Or are they excluded because they were original IPs and thus can also be considered Indie?  If so, then I think the diagram is needlessly complicated/confusing...
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Firestorm29 on January 26, 2015, 01:45:35 AM
Two things I got for this, first one is I think there might be a typo in the first post. I think Doujin can become Indie but Indie can't become doujin, it looks like it's reverse in the write-up.

Second, I don't understand how Nigoro's La-Mulana was an Indie project the whole time as according to the chart Ruw made up. All the MSX and game references plus it being available for free initially like most their other games is rather confusing for me that it was considered an indie project from the get go, where I would have considered it doujin -> Indie myself. I think I could say the same for Cave story. While it might not be too Touhou related, I think it might be an important clarification.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Prime32 on January 26, 2015, 01:55:03 AM
Helepolis, I think you need to give an actual definition of doujin (and explanation that Touhou itself is one) at the start, before you start explaining how it differs from other stuff. :V Particularly since a lot of people still think it refers only to derivative works.
Maybe worth mentioning some stuff in the West that would be considered doujin - anime fansubs, Artist's Alleys at conventions, some webcomics, etc.
For instance, there are some notable examples that directly contradict the guideline that Doujin works cannot become Indie works (or any other type of commercial works)
Since this chart came up in response to a derivative work, it's possible that Ruw meant you can have a doujin that's a derivative work of someone else's indie project but not the other way around.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on January 26, 2015, 03:10:22 AM
Ruw also stated in one of the reply tweets that it was a simplified view and there there would of course be exceptions
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on January 26, 2015, 05:32:36 AM
I also brought up the case of Type-Moon to him, and he clarified that he was talking specifically about works and not companies.

And "pure" doujin can't become indie because, at least in the example above, he meant stuff like fanworks, be it Touhou, anime, or any IP you don't own.

I'm still not 100% sure of why Cave Story doesn't fall in the middle along with Touhou, but that chart shouldn't be taken as gospel truth or anything.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on January 26, 2015, 06:25:55 PM
It is preferable to not call your work "Touhou XXX". In a 2013 seminar, ZUN said he considered making this a rule, but didn't do it.

I don't know about other people, but this sentence had me stumped until I remember the way each installment is named.

So I think this should say something along the lines of "Try to not use the same 'Touhou + 3 other kanji' naming system that the official games use."
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Omegahugger on January 26, 2015, 07:01:00 PM
Quote
It is preferable to not call your work "Touhou XXX".
Great. There goes the name for my adult-oriented Touhou fangame... =(

But seriously, I understand it's "discouraged" but how does this work in the case someone wishes to use "Touhou" in the name of their fangame? Should it be accompanied with a mandatory clear and visible disclaimer that the game isn't an official Touhou game? Seems to me like that would clear things up..... Or is it best to just avoid the use of "Touhou" in the title alltogether, with "preferable" being a subtle way of saying "don't do it, period"?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Tengukami on January 26, 2015, 07:04:24 PM
Great. There goes the name for my adult-oriented Touhou fangame... =(

But seriously, I understand it's "discouraged" but how does this work in the case someone wishes to use "Touhou" in the name of their fangame? Should it be accompanied with a mandatory clear and visible disclaimer that the game isn't an official Touhou game? Seems to me like that would clear things up..... Or is it best to just avoid the use of "Touhou" in the title alltogether, with "preferable" being a subtle way of saying "don't do it, period"?

Well, it seems one of the more common ways around this is to incorporate the name of one of the featured Touhou characters in the name of the game, e.g., Super Marisa World, MegaMari, etc.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ShinesBright on January 26, 2015, 07:32:30 PM
I guess my post was too long....

Or.... Is just everyone ignoring me?

I'll keep it simple this time.



The contact for ZUN is not realistic. How should one reach ZUN?

Everyone claims you need permission to do something. Then how should someone actually get permission?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on January 26, 2015, 08:11:08 PM
You don't get in contact with ZUN, you get in contact with his people. It helps if you write in polite business Japanese I guess.

For example back in 2013 we received permission to enter Danmaku into a western game design contest.

I don't know what to tell you since it hasn't been an issue for us so I don't know what you're doing differently.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Mеа on January 26, 2015, 08:29:52 PM
Or is it best to just avoid the use of "Touhou" in the title alltogether, with "preferable" being a subtle way of saying "don't do it, period"?
Definitely. Zun himself uses the rule with some of the spin offs, meaning the distinction is important. 'Touhou' is probably Zun's personal mark on his games.
I forget, but this applies to any title containing 'touhou' or '東方' and not just 'touhou xxx' or '東方xxx' correct?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ShinesBright on January 26, 2015, 08:34:01 PM
That's interesting :D Thanks for answering!

Oh, and I know it's really ZUN's people not really ZUN himself but I just said it that way. I'll be more specific next time.

So you guys actually contacted thru the e-mail that's on the guidelines?

How did you guys get in contact? Did you guys use a different e-mail?

I know some people have contacted thru the e-mail posted but they didn't get any reply.

Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on January 27, 2015, 12:09:39 AM
Carrot handles the JP stuff and is at mahjongg tonight but I'm 99% sure we used ZUN's email form.  After we were contacted by Oyamada, we sent stuff directly back and forth.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Saijee on January 27, 2015, 03:15:13 AM
While this may not have much to do with specificaly ZUN's guildines, as far as doujin culture is concerned, I do recall Yonjin making this statment about my case:

Quote
They exposed the Touhou Project without ZUN's permission in a forum (Indiegogo) used by people who are unfamiliar with the doujin culture or the Touhou Project. This will invite criticism even when the service used is not crowdfunding.

And later Fumio Oyamada reinforcing that it is for that reason that they don't want to see Touhou in public sites that are not mostly for a Japanese audience.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Tengukami on January 27, 2015, 03:29:36 AM
Saijee, I think you're seriously stretching the meaning of what Oyamada was talking about. You can of course talk about and discuss Touhou on public sites. Steam, in this case, is being used for TTS; not for touting a Touhou doujin game.

Also, it would be awesome if this thread could be used for its intended purpose - to ask questions about/receive clarification on ZUN's guidelines - rather than as a platform for needling other users here or turning it into a proxy discussion thread for the thread that was locked with the specific statement that said discussion was over.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on January 27, 2015, 04:48:25 AM
To answer more directly, no, this is not particularly vague at all. First and foremost, Danmaku!! is at the very basics a free to play printable card game. TTS is on Steam, but Danmaku!! is not related to Steam in any capacity. TTS is a sandbox game and has nothing to do with any user-made content.

If you weren't aware on how importing in TTS works, you literally just have an image of the cards (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16321.msg1152913.html#msg1152913) to import.

Please take further discussion about Danmaku!! to its own thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16321.html).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on January 27, 2015, 06:49:16 AM
This is an immediate and last warning out to Saijee. As Tengukami and Drake pointed, you're bringing up your own case again indirectly here and we're done with your case.

We're not here to discuss specific games or stir any further drama concerning the guidelines.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ShinesBright on January 27, 2015, 07:05:38 AM
Hey~ Nice to see you Helepolis!

I didn't think what Saijee was asking was unrelated to the thread.

We are talking about guidelines and how some games can be on a quirky border of going over the guidelines.

Steam is absolutely not permitted so it's a totally relatable subject and valid reason to be curious of it. Is it not?

It's not just about Saijee's game. It's about every doujin game.

You guys are the experts and say this is okay.

This game seems to be able to utilize a function of Steams network without infringing on guidelines.

I don't know about Steam much so... Is there actually a way to play with other people online without going on steam?

This is the most important question. If the answer is yes than it is definitely within the guidelines and if not I think it's worth questioning.

I think its important for future western doujin game designers to be aware of their options regarding steam as this game has.


Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Tengukami on January 27, 2015, 08:59:11 AM
Both Moogs and Drake have effectively answered this question re: Moogs. Steam is used strictly as a platform for TTS. TTS, in turn, is just empty cards. This is vastly different fron using Steam as a platform to sell a Touhou doujin game, should be obvious on its face and was already covered in the OP.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: crescentia on January 27, 2015, 10:21:10 AM
I also brought up the case of Type-Moon to him, and he clarified that he was talking specifically about works and not companies.

And "pure" doujin can't become indie because, at least in the example above, he meant stuff like fanworks, be it Touhou, anime, or any IP you don't own.

I'm still not 100% sure of why Cave Story doesn't fall in the middle along with Touhou, but that chart shouldn't be taken as gospel truth or anything.

Like I said - I understand the meaning behind the diagram, but I don't like it because it's confusing and leaves certain things unsaid or misunderstood.  The bottom line should be that if you're producing derivative work, you're playing with someone else's toys - in the case of Touhou, ZUN is kind enough to even give us a sandbox (the guidelines) where we're free to do as we please so long as we don't leave those guidelines.  The Doujin vs. Indie discussion is one that is somewhat interesting, but ultimately irrelevant when you're playing with someone else's IP.

With regard to the current discussion, it's clear that ZUN restricts the use of particular platforms as distribution/publishing methods, as they are currently markets that reach beyond doujin channels.  "Using Steam" in this case means you can't put your game up for download via Steam, not that you can't employ Steam's other functionality as a piece of software.  Do you think it's outside of guidelines if you import your Touhou games into your Steam library so that you can access them easier?  No, of course not.  Furthermore, in this specific case, you're downloading Tabletop Simulator, a 3rd-party piece of software, via Steam, and using it to play a Touhou fangame that can only be found via Touhou fan-sites.  If you think this is in violation, you might as well argue that your ISP is the one violating the guidelines whenever you engage in netplay in TH12.3 or 13.5, because you're using a 3rd-party system with reach beyond the original games.

Lastly, I'd still like a discussion on how Western music circles should offer their albums.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Calamity on January 27, 2015, 10:52:55 AM
No, you cannot sell your work digitally anywhere, not even in Japan. (?)
Does making commissioned artwork based on Touhou fall under this? Say someone tells me they want X Touhou character drawn so I do that on a computer and send them the illustration digitally in exchange for money. Should this be avoided?

Also, here are two existing examples that contrast with the point of not selling digitally(correct me if I'm wrong):
Rin Ginsuke (http://rinx2musixxx.bandcamp.com/)
Imizu (http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=maker_info&makers_id=MK0000012935&age=1)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on January 27, 2015, 12:48:16 PM
Does making commissioned artwork based on Touhou fall under this? Say someone tells me they want X Touhou character drawn so I do that on a computer and send them the illustration digitally in exchange for money. Should this be avoided?
Commissions are done between people, and unless you're going to take your commission and sell it somewhere else there is no problem with you throwing money at someone to make a thing just for you, nor accepting such an offer. It isn't really about whether it's digital or otherwise, it just isn't a commercial endeavour to begin with.

Also, here are two existing examples that contrast with the point of not selling digitally(correct me if I'm wrong):
Rin Ginsuke (http://rinx2musixxx.bandcamp.com/)
Imizu (http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=maker_info&makers_id=MK0000012935&age=1)
Good note. Bandcamp if anything is the main grey area, since there isn't really a precedent for its model. I don't think it's too problematic, but best practices would mean making it clear that it's a Touhou music arrange and composed by ZUN like any other doujin album would. Having it free to play probably helps.

About Melonbooks DL: In the original guidelines, distribution through doujin shops was already given exception, so the only part that should be in question is that it's for "download". We probably shouldn't be saying "no digital sales in any circumstance". Being downloadable in and of itself isn't really a problem; the reason that can potentially be an issue is because of the rules regarding distribution channels and exposure, which isn't an issue considering Melonbooks is a doujin shop. If a "Touhou-approved" large-scale download site could be anywhere out of the whole Internet, it would be at a doujin shop's site.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Kiefmaster99 on January 27, 2015, 12:53:21 PM
Does making commissioned artwork based on Touhou fall under this? Say someone tells me they want X Touhou character drawn so I do that on a computer and send them the illustration digitally in exchange for money. Should this be avoided?

Also, here are two existing examples that contrast with the point of not selling digitally(correct me if I'm wrong):
Rin Ginsuke (http://rinx2musixxx.bandcamp.com/)
Imizu (http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=maker_info&makers_id=MK0000012935&age=1)

Commissioned works are covered by the guidelines as an exception to the rule. From the Touhou Wiki:

Quote
Summary of Blog Update:
Reproductions of individual commissions are explicitly exempted from the restrictions on
commercial work (i.e. if someone commissions you to do something, it?s okay to then sell
reproductions of it in limited quantities as a doujin work)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Kiefmaster99 on January 27, 2015, 12:55:06 PM
(Delete - accidental doublepost)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Daya on January 27, 2015, 04:11:39 PM
Does making commissioned artwork based on Touhou fall under this? Say someone tells me they want X Touhou character drawn so I do that on a computer and send them the illustration digitally in exchange for money. Should this be avoided?

[snip]

Actually a tangent to this question, a commissioned anything for that matter.

Say someone commissions a drawing, an animation, an arrange, or even *gasp* a game (if you hella ballin) for either private consumption or for later free public distribution ... I wonder what that would fall under (secondary sale is a definite no-no from what I am reading). Aside from art ... would other works fall under the same presumption.

An example strict guideline I've seen is Homestuck's Commissioning guideline where "only unique, two-dimensional images (http://mspaintadventures.com/salesfaq.html)" is very specific and clear.

(*totally not referring to the icon she has*)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on January 27, 2015, 04:23:24 PM
Commissioning pieces of your project should be good on all accounts as long as you yourself are a major creative part of the project.  It's no different from paying someone to press CDs/DVDs or print books because you personally don't own that machinery and don't know how to do it yourself.  On the other hand I can't see someone's only contribution to a project being money being okay.  (Though it's hard to imagine any project with an angel investor not giving that person influence, even if it must pass through the skilled project member's revisions)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Daya on January 27, 2015, 04:30:16 PM
Commissioning pieces of your project should be good on all accounts as long as you yourself are a major creative part of the project.  It's no different from paying someone to press CDs/DVDs or print books because you personally don't own that machinery and don't know how to do it yourself.  On the other hand I can't see someone's only contribution to a project being money being okay.  (Though it's hard to imagine any project with an angel investor not giving that person influence, even if it must pass through the skilled project member's revisions)

Interesting! Definitely something that could be put up as a note re: full commissioned work.

I am making the presumption of a FULL work for private consumption and/or for later free distro -- with involvement of the person paying. Like for the Eridan x Aya commission (http://lezithian.deviantart.com/art/You-re-the-Only-Angel-I-Won-t-Slay-475840913), I had my artist go through 5 revisions, and dozens of corrections before we were both happy with what I got (and told said artist "I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO SHARE THIS EVERYWHERE").

Partials (a work towards a larger project) or later sale I would expect to be murky and probably should not be done (or at least not addressed with this particular question).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on January 27, 2015, 04:50:59 PM
I'm not sure if I answered your question or not?

Edit: Snip.  Will readd later maybe after checking sources
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Daya on January 27, 2015, 05:10:45 PM
I'm not sure if I answered your question or not?

Yeah I presume commissioned privately used / for later freely shared two-dimensional art is kosher.

... but of other forms of media for Touhou Project fanworks (animations, games, music) -- would other commissioned work done in the same manner as two-dimensional art fall under the normal environment of a commission (such as how the Sistine Chapel's ceiling was commissioned by Pope Julius II by Michelangelo; amount of involvement in the commmissioner / patronage is of course presumingly substantial).

Environment of a commission is normal: statement it is not 'work for hire', that it is for commission, composer/writer/artist/whatever retains the rights to the work, the normal guidelines for fanworks of ZUN is otherwise met as if the patron/commissioner made it themselves, etc.

The question extends to almost all fanworks to kind of cover just about every possible imaginable situation for a person to commission a work (Hell why not, a fresco of Touhou fanwork on one's ceiling lol!).

I could imagine this being used for those that might be ... ballin' (but if you have that kind of money to completely commission a work ... well ... don't think we have 1%/0.5%'ers in MotK? Bueller? Bueller?). But realistically, I'd expect the most common would be 2d/3d art and music arrangements.

Edit: Oh you researching lol. okay. ^^;
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on January 27, 2015, 06:54:43 PM
I'm actually working at my day job and taking care of my kid (I work from home half the week)  I don't really know the answer to things besides 2D art, I was hoping someone else knew.  I can look into it later but it'll be several hours/possibly a day
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Calamity on January 27, 2015, 07:43:04 PM
-snip-
I see, that pretty much answers my question. Kiefmaster99(I can only see their reply when I am composing a reply for some reason) pointed out the answer was already in the guidelines about general commissions.
Quote
Summary of Blog Update:
Reproductions of individual commissions are explicitly exempted from the restrictions on commercial work (i.e. if someone commissions you to do something, it?s okay to then sell reproductions of it in limited quantities as a doujin work)

So much for my reading comprehension :V I suppose this means commissions for things like an Itasha (http://i.imgur.com/LaMqHnX.jpg) are all fine and dandy.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Shade_ on January 27, 2015, 10:50:40 PM
To answer more directly, no, this is not particularly vague at all. First and foremost, Danmaku!! is at the very basics a free to play printable card game. TTS is on Steam, but Danmaku!! is not related to Steam in any capacity. TTS is a sandbox game and has nothing to do with any user-made content.

If you weren't aware on how importing in TTS works, you literally just have an image of the cards (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16321.msg1152913.html#msg1152913) to import.

Please take further discussion about Danmaku!! to its own thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16321.html).

So, in answer to our own question I looked up and it does indeed seem to be that you cannot engage in multilayer online without the incorporation of Steam (Correct me if I am wrong, if indeed steam is not necessary, but it appears you do need at least a Steam ID if I am not mistaken). This would prove that Drake's statement "TTS is on Steam, but Danmaku!! is not related to Steam in any capacity." is simply wrong because if you need Steam at all, then it is "related" in some way, shape, or form.

In the email I got, it strictly said that steam, Amazon, and Wii-U are "Not allowed" by ZUN. He did not state any specification or exceptions.

Now in this case, if what you guys say is true, and this in fact IS not infringing on the guidelines. Then it should be specifically added to the guidelines that while Steam is not allowed as a way of distributing your game. It can be used as a platform to connect for multilayer Touhou games.

If this is truly allowed, I think we should flush out the specifics so that we can inform other Touhou games their options when implementing multilayer on steam.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Firestorm29 on January 27, 2015, 10:58:19 PM
Personally, I think it's a bit asinine demanding multilayer protocols get listed line item by line item as ok or not. And yes, Steam would be a protocol to connect with in this case.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Daya on January 27, 2015, 11:47:18 PM
I see, that pretty much answers my question. Kiefmaster99(I can only see their reply when I am composing a reply for some reason) pointed out the answer was already in the guidelines about general commissions.
Quote
Summary of Blog Update:
Reproductions of individual commissions are explicitly exempted from the restrictions on commercial work (i.e. if someone commissions you to do something, it’s okay to then sell reproductions of it in limited quantities as a doujin work)
So much for my reading comprehension :V I suppose this means commissions for things like an Itasha (http://i.imgur.com/LaMqHnX.jpg) are all fine and dandy.
Oop. That answers my question too :) Thanks Calamity and Moogs Parfait! Definitely should be in the nice list up in the beginning. May not have many 1%'ers but there will be those that have enough money to commission something major (such as indeed an itasha) that just wants to do have it to well ... have it (I know I do!).

Though it would be hilarious to see a race to the top on the 'over the top' commission work for maximum fandom points :D *would compete .-.* But that point of information is going to be helpful for those that aren't sure whether or not any commission work (aside from 2d/3d art) is permissible. Then again, that is why there is itasha, murals, and I'm sure that there's commissioned arranges.

The last part is actually what I'm wanting to do with a fairly known band artist who is [REDACTED] (is a very close friend of mine that happens to be a bit famous). Will be initially a private work, but as part of the commission, request the work to later on be released freely and under normal doujin guidelines, with consultation with a lot of people before allowing its release. This is of course if I get the ability to! (And this is with great general directives that I would like to hear and such before a work can commence.)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Edible on January 28, 2015, 12:24:55 AM
Saijee/Shade/whatever, shut the fuck up.

If I see one more shitty trollbait whining post from any of you, I'm removing you all permanently.

Are we clear?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Fulisha of Light on January 28, 2015, 02:47:06 AM
I'm kinda confused about not naming your work "Touhou XXX"; The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Riverbed Soul Saver, and White Names Spoiled Past all have the same format for their names. Are they excluded because they clearly state they are fangames?  ???
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on January 28, 2015, 03:31:07 AM
They all clearly state that they are fangames, which they would have to do regardless.

It's entirely possible that even Japanese fans aren't aware of ZUN's suggestion not to name things in a similar pattern after his works, since I don't think he made a huge deal of it.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Fulisha of Light on January 28, 2015, 04:17:53 AM
It's entirely possible that even Japanese fans aren't aware of ZUN's suggestion not to name things in a similar pattern after his works, since I don't think he made a huge deal of it.

Huh, that's interesting.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Colticide on January 28, 2015, 04:23:40 AM
I'm kinda confused about not naming your work "Touhou XXX"; The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Riverbed Soul Saver, and White Names Spoiled Past all have the same format for their names. Are they excluded because they clearly state they are fangames?  ???

Pretty much what N-Forza said, the only issue is that these could be confused for official games to those who are new to touhou or new/outside of doujin. Personally I feel it better to started moving towards not using the Touhou XXX format and trying to come up with something else. You can still your Eastern but under a different name though, Touyou comes to mind as it means Eastern/Oriental if I remember, correct me if I'm wrong.

All this information is hard to grasp for me, I think it's just my lack of understanding that's making it difficult for it all to sink in.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Uruwi on January 28, 2015, 05:09:48 AM
Pretty much what N-Forza said, the only issue is that these could be confused for official games to those who are new to touhou or new/outside of doujin. Personally I feel it better to started moving towards not using the Touhou XXX format and trying to come up with something else. You can still your Eastern but under a different name though, Touyou comes to mind as it means Eastern/Oriental if I remember, correct me if I'm wrong.

All this information is hard to grasp for me, I think it's just my lack of understanding that's making it difficult for it all to sink in.

But Touyou can be confused with Touhou, right?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Colticide on January 28, 2015, 05:37:41 AM
But Touyou can be confused with Touhou, right?

In English it could, 東洋 and 東方 I would assume to be pretty different for Japanese. Both have similar meanings, but this isn't to say everyone should use Touyou, it could be an alternative to saying eastern/oriental.

Actually I wonder if having a title then the subtitle "A Touhou/東方 fangame/X". I'll just use mine as a example: Museum of Eastern Dream, would a subtitle A Touhou Fangame/RPG be OK? (Personally I don't think it would need it since only those who know doujin and touhou would be informed of what the game is about.)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Omegahugger on January 28, 2015, 05:48:47 AM
Quote from: Colticide
I'll just use mine as a example: Museum of Eastern Dream, would a subtitle A Touhou Fangame/RPG be OK? (Personally I don't think it would need it since only those who know doujin and touhou would be informed of what the game is about.)
I don't think it's necessary in the example you provided; it's not like it contains "Touhou" in the title (unless you're writing it in japanese, but your example was in english) so aside from a disclaimer somewhere in the game or documentation making it clear you don't own the characters/ect., that should be good enough.

Although....

Quote from: Tengukami
Well, it seems one of the more common ways around this is to incorporate the name of one of the featured Touhou characters in the name of the game, e.g., Super Marisa World, MegaMari, etc.

......in the end there seems to be plenty of ways to avoid using "Touhou" in the game's title. Specifying a sub-title like "A Touhou Fangame" shouldn't be necessary considering it could only be posted in places where Touhou is already known and not having "Touhou" in the name should already make it clear to such people that it's a fangame. (Not that the standard boilerplate disclaimer shouldn't also appear somewhere, just in case......)

(At least that's how I understand this.)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Colticide on January 28, 2015, 06:34:52 AM
I don't think it's necessary in the example you provided; it's not like it contains "Touhou" in the title (unless you're writing it in japanese, but your example was in english) so aside from a disclaimer somewhere in the game or documentation making it clear you don't own the characters/ect., that should be good enough.

Although....

......in the end there seems to be plenty of ways to avoid using "Touhou" in the game's title. Specifying a sub-title like "A Touhou Fangame" shouldn't be necessary considering it could only be posted in places where Touhou is already known and not having "Touhou" in the name should already make it clear to such people that it's a fangame. (Not that the standard boilerplate disclaimer shouldn't also appear somewhere, just in case......)

(At least that's how I understand this.)

I knew I should have grabbed the JPN title as well, for the example it starts with  東洋 (touyou) I'm not sure why I left it out. But yeah it makes sense for a title to not specify what it is since if it's in a place like this then it's pretty much gonna be covered already. I guess if your displaying it as a "Touhou fangame" then that would mean you have intention of advertising it which =/= guidelines.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on January 28, 2015, 07:20:33 AM
There are a bunch of ways that have become fairly common amongst the fandom. One of them, as mentioned, is using the name of a specific character, especially when it's a character-centric game. Using "Gensokyo" as a replacement also works well. Using five-kanji is also pretty standard fare. Personally I would avoid the same sort of cardinal naming schemes altogether (e.g. the previous 東洋 example); not because it's problematic but because it sounds pretty darn cheesy when everyone knows it's a Touhou fangame where you're trying not to use the name but you still sort of are anyways.

Again, the naming thing isn't a major point. Especially for STGs, 東方◯◯◯ is still really common. You shouldn't have to be deathly afraid to stamp 東方 in the title, but it also isn't something you should feel forced to try and incorporate either.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Colticide on January 28, 2015, 02:53:09 PM
I see, with the example I gave I wanted to try and avoid using 東方 because despite Museum being in the beginning, with the JPN title 東方 is in the beginning instead. (which confused the heck out of me.) I guess if it's not too much of a problem it could still work or just drop the JPN title all together.

(Sorry if I'm making this a bit off topic, just wanted to get some of my own concerns out of the way, it seemed to related but I'm still trying to understand all of this.)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 29, 2015, 05:23:13 AM
I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this but it relates to ZUN's guidelines so I guess here works. Although ZUN explicitly forbids use of game data in fanworks outside of screenshots, there are many fangames (e.g. The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Fantastic Danmaku Festival) that very clearly use many sound effects from the official games, yet use completely original assets for everything else.

Are the sound effects an exception to the rules or are they ignoring them? I'm skeptical that the latter is true as the rest of the assets, including art and music, are completely original. Is it possible that ZUN's sound effects are not made by him either and are not under his ownership?

In light of this, would it be a bad idea for me to use some (very few) official sound effects in my game that I plan to sell at conventions?

P.S. Yes I've asked this question before but that was over a year ago and the answer I got wasn't very definitive.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Uruwi on January 29, 2015, 05:26:39 AM
I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this but it relates to ZUN's guidelines so I guess here works. Although ZUN explicitly forbids use of game data in fanworks outside of screenshots, there are many fangames (e.g. The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Fantastic Danmaku Festival) that very clearly use many sound effects from the official games, yet use completely original assets for everything else.

Are the sound effects an exception to the rules or are they ignoring them? I'm skeptical that the latter is true as the rest of the assets, including art and music, are completely original. Is it possible that ZUN's sound effects are not made by him either and are not under his ownership?

In light of this, would it be a bad idea for me to use some (very few) official sound effects in my game that I plan to sell at conventions?

P.S. Yes I've asked this question before but that was over a year ago and the answer I got wasn't very definitive.


Being done frequently does not imply "legality" (quotes since it's more like "we won't bother you"). I'd rather avoid the risk associated with using ZUN's SFXs.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Romantique Tp on January 29, 2015, 09:02:51 AM
Is it possible that ZUN's sound effects are not made by him either and are not under his ownership?

They were made by him, they're all edited sounds from his synth. Keep in mind that he may not be aware that these games use his sounds (or even know these games exist) and that if he is, he probably just couldn't be bothered to tell the authors to use something else. You should make your own if you want to play it safe, but you can probably get away with using the player death sound since it's pretty iconic to the series.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 29, 2015, 02:25:38 PM
The only ones I wanted to use were the player death effect, the spellcard declare, and MAYBE one or more of his charge up sounds. I can do without most of the rest.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: gtbot on January 29, 2015, 02:28:04 PM
Most of ZUN's sound effects are not his original creations; he took them from a source and modified them a bit (I can't remember the exact source). The fangames work around this by getting the sounds from the original source and working from there, as opposed to using ZUN's actual data. They could have recreated it themselves, OR they could have gotten them from Nico Commons, which hosts an abundant amount of Touhou-like materials. The users over at Nico Commons would still employ the same aforementioned method to recreate the sound effects.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 29, 2015, 02:49:33 PM
Most of ZUN's sound effects are not his original creations; he took them from a source and modified them a bit (I can't remember the exact source). The fangames work around this by getting the sounds from the original source and working from there, as opposed to using ZUN's actual data. They could have recreated it themselves, OR they could have gotten them from Nico Commons, which hosts an abundant amount of Touhou-like materials. The users over at Nico Commons would still employ the same aforementioned method to recreate the sound effects.
I think I remember finding something like what you're talking about on Nico. Can you link me the page?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: gtbot on January 29, 2015, 03:09:33 PM
The Nico Commons page?  http://commons.nicovideo.jp (http://commons.nicovideo.jp)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 29, 2015, 04:49:16 PM
I guess I should have been more specific. Can you link to where the touhou like sounds are on the site?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Vento on January 29, 2015, 05:07:21 PM
shit my circle name has touhou in it kanji and all doushio
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: gtbot on January 29, 2015, 06:50:27 PM
Can you link to where the touhou like sounds are on the site?
There isn't a specific section; just search 東方 (http://commons.nicovideo.jp/search/tag/%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9?s=v&o=d&sc=0) and you'll get results. I recommend that you search by most views/downloads (third option and fifth option in the dropdown box, respectively).

When you click to download a file, take note of the licensing page that shows up. Some of them are not allowed to be used for-profit, while some others can.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Romantique Tp on January 29, 2015, 07:39:36 PM
Most of ZUN's sound effects are not his original creations; he took them from a source and modified them a bit (I can't remember the exact source). The fangames work around this by getting the sounds from the original source and working from there, as opposed to using ZUN's actual data.
No, they use a few original sound effects but they do use plenty of ZUN's sounds too. The ones that aren't from the official games are very easy to spot.

Quote
They could have recreated it themselves, OR they could have gotten them from Nico Commons, which hosts an abundant amount of Touhou-like materials. The users over at Nico Commons would still employ the same aforementioned method to recreate the sound effects.
Don't assume that just because it has commons in the name that it's anything like wikimedia commons, where everything is either original, self made content and/or uses a free license. A lot of sound effects from Nico Commons are taken straight from Touhou and other games.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 29, 2015, 08:14:15 PM
None of the sounds on Nico Commons (at least from what I've seen) credit ZUN, despite sounding like exact rips. I would be very surprised if they were indeed rips but gave no credit as to their source. I think gtbot's assertion is more likely to be correct, and that a large amount of ZUN's sound effects are derived from a specific source and other people have mimicked them by using the same source. It would explain why the sound effects alone in those fangames appear to be ripped while literally EVERYTHING else is original.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Romantique Tp on January 29, 2015, 08:30:44 PM
They're not mimicked, they're _exactly_ the same as ZUN's. Listen to them side by side. They're even 22.05Khz/8 bit files like the originals, while the custom made sounds are 44.1Khz/16 bits. Hell, they even have the exact same reverb effect that ZUN added to these sounds after MoF. You don't need to be an audio specialist with golden ears to be able to tell that these are straight rips.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on January 29, 2015, 08:48:44 PM
Alright, sheesh, I can't exactly listen to them side by side right now cause I'm at work.

Still, I ask why no credit then? Why not say that they're rips?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on January 29, 2015, 10:16:21 PM
I am going to move the above posts to the Q&A thread. Only the ones after gtbot pointed our the website. While it is valuable and valid questions/answers, it is quite specific based on the sounds themselves and not really the guidelines. There might be relationship of course (hence valid posts made) but still going to split them.

Apologies for the strict moderation but I have to apply it for now.


Edit: 2nd rereading, I think breaking/splitting it now would cause lots of confusion noise. Leaving it for now, but please refrain from too much going into the technical aspects of the sounds. I am also quite interested in them as Ozzy also posted in my project thread, so perhaps we can continue the technical things at the Q&A?  Apologies for this post edit.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Uruwi on January 30, 2015, 07:00:44 AM
They're not mimicked, they're _exactly_ the same as ZUN's. Listen to them side by side. They're even 22.05Khz/8 bit files like the originals, while the custom made sounds are 44.1Khz/16 bits. Hell, they even have the exact same reverb effect that ZUN added to these sounds after MoF. You don't need to be an audio specialist with golden ears to be able to tell that these are straight rips.

Actually, some of them are 44.1KHz. Even so, there are comments translating to "You borrowed [ripped] it".
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drachnon on February 04, 2015, 08:45:39 PM
Ok I'm not a legal expert but I tried looking into the questions about music and bandcamp that had been asked earlier.

AFAIK Most Touhou fanmusic would fall under transformative works. And once they do I don't think any of the creative common rules set by ZUN/Shanghai Alice are relevant when discussing the legality of the work. If ZUN feels like a muscial work is similar enough to his own he can still try to enforce copyright but from what I can tell it's a really hard case for him to make and he would have to go through the courts of whichever country is hosting the material (probably the US in case of bandcamp).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: FallenLegacy on February 07, 2015, 07:17:52 AM
Hello,I am here to ask some questions I am worried about. I am very very worried about what engines I am and not allowed to use, I also wish to be a good guy and follow guidelines best I can I am not a pro and I am noob, I also wanna ask (not saying it's happening anytime soon maybe not for years) after I get experience what is the possibilities for MMOs? I am currently going for a ARPG version of a hack and slash touhou fan made with danmaku. I want to go for something like metal gear rising but I know that is not likely especially when I am new and alone, so it will prob be a sprite hack and slash combat system like metal gear rising but with typical flying and far less pretty graphics.  Again please don't be mad I am new at this ><
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on February 07, 2015, 08:17:58 AM
Hello,I am here to ask some questions I am worried about. I am very very worried about what engines I am and not allowed to use, I also wish to be a good guy and follow guidelines best I can I am not a pro and I am noob, I also wanna ask (not saying it's happening anytime soon maybe not for years) after I get experience what is the possibilities for MMOs? I am currently going for a ARPG version of a hack and slash touhou fan made with danmaku. I want to go for something like metal gear rising but I know that is not likely especially when I am new and alone, so it will prob be a sprite hack and slash combat system like metal gear rising but with typical flying and far less pretty graphics.  Again please don't be mad I am new at this ><
There is no engine limitation or usage of tools / techniques to create Touhou derived games.

If you mention MMO, that means you're aiming for a massive multiplayer online. I think your main concern would be the technical difficulties in realising this. How are you going to let hundreds of people play together?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: FallenLegacy on February 07, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
There is no engine limitation or usage of tools / techniques to create Touhou derived games.

If you mention MMO, that means you're aiming for a massive multiplayer online. I think your main concern would be the technical difficulties in realising this. How are you going to let hundreds of people play together?


I am familiar with MMOs and their requirements,like sites you needs a server and the specs that server requires may vary from the size of the game to how many people you plan on connecting/channels that you require.MMOs also have skill level requirements you need alot of need to know concepts many suggest MMOs *NOT* being  your first project.

By MMO concern I am well aware that pay2win is strictly forbidden because that counts as donations as well (just a bit more dirty on how it is executed it's a level below scamming but donations none the less) what I was worried about because of the fact pay to win and selling extra features exist the risk of MMOs at all being allowed was my main concern.Even with approval my MMO goal wouldn't be financial based either it would be a a community aimed goal to experiment who far a community can immerse with with touhou and how it can support itself legally.If it would of ended up full of profits I would of gotten nervous and shut the thing down myself or hand it to someone who can handle it without getting greedy.

- I had a discussion with my friend MMO would be very tricky, you would need a free host and have the game entirely free to play and free to win, Sponsors if you find one for a host would work if they did not expect anything specific in return especially money MMO is very unlikely according to what me and my friend discussed, you could still use a host and pay rent but it cannot be commercial rewarding which removes all sense of pay2win and pay2play methods,in other worse you will need to find another source of funding to pay for the host which would require either a really good paying job or whatever -



My current all together goal is the ARPG I mentioned first the other question was a safety measure to help me and mere curiosity from a developers perspective,I am not doing an MMO as my 1st project.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on February 07, 2015, 08:59:27 PM
Your intuition is pretty much right. Having such a game require payment at all besides an original purchase would be wholly unacceptable, and even then it would be subject to the same rules of distribution as everything else. MMOs thrive on their accessibility and method of distribution, so trying to keep an MMO as a doujin game is even more risky, expensive, and filled with pitfalls than making an MMO in the first place (which is very risky, expensive, and filled with pitfalls). I'd be floored if such a project worked out.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: FallenLegacy on February 07, 2015, 10:04:48 PM
Your intuition is pretty much right. Having such a game require payment at all besides an original purchase would be wholly unacceptable, and even then it would be subject to the same rules of distribution as everything else. MMOs thrive on their accessibility and method of distribution, so trying to keep an MMO as a doujin game is even more risky, expensive, and filled with pitfalls than making an MMO in the first place (which is very risky, expensive, and filled with pitfalls). I'd be floored if such a project worked out.

MMOs feel extremely greylined on the guidelines period,even if you manage to host the MMO and create the MMO while following the guidelines it is still unstable, and as unstable as it is it may worry Zun and he might directly disapprove based on how much attention this MMO would give and how sketchy it would look. From my personal view if my series supported fan games and I saw an MMO out I would be pretty worried as to how stable the whole project is and how it is following the guidelines to the point I do no want it to exist, it would be something that would need baby sat all the time to make sure it's not going to pull anything later and I would make the MMO close because I don't have time to baby sit. I am not saying Zun would do this but MMOs are not to be trusted they can turn nasty,greedy,and illegal at any moment I mean look at KoG and their path. It is wise to assume that there are too many traps involved to get full blessings for an MMO.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on February 07, 2015, 10:46:57 PM
Like I said before as well, MMOs are games that are just extremely difficult and expensive to produce and manage in the first place. To even get to the point where this hypothetical applies, you're already banking on the other hypothetical that the game could be feasibly made in the first place.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on February 20, 2015, 03:08:02 AM
I had a chat with Ruw and D.N.A. a few days ago and I asked for clarification on a few points regarding the guidelines and stuff.

I learned there is no plan to update the guidelines or even create an officially sanctioned translation. This is my take, but it seems to me that they believe the recent fiasco was more of an outlier, and most people are reasonable enough to not go against them, because even if you don't understand doujin culture, you probably have enough common sense not to flagrantly use someone else's IP.

I then asked about ways to sell Touhou doujin games outside of Japan. It was reiterated that selling physical copies through personal websites are OK (D.N.A. has one of his own), and free downloads are also fine. Additionally, DLsite along with Melonbooks and Toranoana's digital distribution stores were authorized (but not Gumroad). As far as selling them at meet-ups, they would have to be either Touhou-centered (such as Touhoucon), focused on selling self-made games in general (assuming whatever organization running it would allow the sale of fan-made games), or other Comiket-like environments (selling independent/fan works, admittedly fairly uncommon). This excludes anime conventions though, even if they have artist's alleys.

I'm not saying to take this as straight from ZUN's mouth or anything, but hopefully it should give a better understanding all around.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Sparen on February 20, 2015, 04:22:57 AM
I had a chat with Ruw and D.N.A. a few days ago and I asked for clarification on a few points regarding the guidelines and stuff.

Thank you. This will prove helpful in figuring out what can and cannot be done.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on February 20, 2015, 05:01:25 AM
A note on excluding anime conventions: although this generally goes along with the sentiment of not selling Touhou fan material outside the context of the original series and so forth, the structure of conventions in Japan and NA (and likely Europe, etc) are different in that western conventions largely are built on interest-specific panels. Selling Touhou doujin material within the bounds of a Touhou-related panel (rather than a generic dealer room) is almost certainly acceptable, as one would expect most people who visit a panel are already acquainted with the series.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on February 20, 2015, 06:47:37 AM
Like Anime Boston - Touhou Panel ?

because even if you don't understand doujin culture, you probably have enough common sense not to flagrantly use someone else's IP.
This pretty much goes for any thing in general. Common sense to commit some research, ask around and gather knowledge. Thanks for the talk/information.

Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on February 20, 2015, 11:02:04 AM
I feel like there's a disconnect somewhere, maybe on my end since I'm the one who is confused.

But  I don't understand the exclusion of artist alleys as that's exactly where you see fangames and other fanworks today.   Yes the west focuses on individual fanart prints but that doesn't mean that self made books, music cds, games, and toys don't exist.   Every artist's alley I've been to has been a mini comiket, minus having porn everywhere.

Playing Danmaku!! at conventions over the past two years I have literally asked hundreds of convention goers if they know what Touhou is and freaking all of them do.  Touhou's reputation proceeds it, mostly because of the massive fanwork community. 

Then if what Drake says is is true, I could call up the convention organisers and create a Touhou event, which any person can walk into, and selling stuff there would be okay?  I can see this annoying the organisers actually, "this is what the dealer's room/artist's alley is for", but I know the tabletop game rooms do sales sometimes.

If the entire point is to sell in the places where IP laws get turned a blind eye to, I don't think anyone has anything to worry about.


I dunno, this thread took a weird turn but I feel like the only person who thinks so.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on February 20, 2015, 12:28:04 PM
The thing also in the west is that there are cluttered number of cons going on. I am not sure in terms of Touhou in the east, but a random con there won't have a Touhou orientated offer or booths (correct me if I am wrong). Comic cons or anime cons in the west are more general and this is where the thing gets complicated.

If I were to strictly judge myself, a regular con anywhere, including Japan, would  conflict with the guidelines of Touhou. Because it is the same reason with ZUN saying that promoting Touhou in an environment where Touhou is "unknown" or can create "wrong assumptions".

So preferable is that Touhou name it self is clearly announced to avoid any assumption or false "promotion". An artist's alley is too general as it entails "art work". And it can be also non-anime/manga/doujin. So I think the most important constraint is to define Touhou it self and the event as a strict Doujin event?

What I elicit from Forza and Ruw/DNA is that defining Touhou + Doujin is the most important factor for offline events. So Anime Boston with Touhou panel == safe. Random anime con with general artist galley != safe.

Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Firestorm29 on February 20, 2015, 01:05:00 PM
What about having your stuff sold at importer booths, kinda like that NY bases group and Hendane, which both had imported Touhou stuff?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on February 20, 2015, 02:22:16 PM
What about having your stuff sold at importer booths, kinda like that NY bases group and Hendane, which both had imported Touhou stuff?
Afaik violation of Touhou guidelines, right? Because they are unaffiliated stores/merchants or non-doujin related in general. There are also pretty much a lot of import stores online which also sell Touhou merchandise by import/shipping them. I remember in 2009 I bought one from some yahoo merchant.

But I think we're out the scope here. There is absolutely no end to asking these questions related to merchants/shops selling Touhou good. We're here concerned about fan-work made by individuals who want to promote/spread/sell their work (Doujin activities). Selling stuff by import != a Doujin activity. And if you let your work sold through such methods you're also violating the guidelines.

Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on February 20, 2015, 05:12:07 PM
The thing also in the west is that there are cluttered number of cons going on. I am not sure in terms of Touhou in the east, but a random con there won't have a Touhou orientated offer or booths (correct me if I am wrong). Comic cons or anime cons in the west are more general and this is where the thing gets complicated.

If I were to strictly judge myself, a regular con anywhere, including Japan, would  conflict with the guidelines of Touhou. Because it is the same reason with ZUN saying that promoting Touhou in an environment where Touhou is "unknown" or can create "wrong assumptions".

So preferable is that Touhou name it self is clearly announced to avoid any assumption or false "promotion". An artist's alley is too general as it entails "art work". And it can be also non-anime/manga/doujin. So I think the most important constraint is to define Touhou it self and the event as a strict Doujin event?

What I elicit from Forza and Ruw/DNA is that defining Touhou + Doujin is the most important factor for offline events. So Anime Boston with Touhou panel == safe. Random anime con with general artist galley != safe.

Now that I'm not posting in the middle of the night, my point is that conventions already have a doujin event, they just call it Artist's Alley, which has become a misnomer for what actually goes on.   Sometimes non-art is seperated off into a Dealer's Room where you'll find stuff like toys and games, but that leaves things like books and music still in AA.  These places are loaded with self published fanworks and original works, and in Dealer's Rooms you can always find Japanese doujin goods being resold.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, I just think excluding artist alleys doesn't help anyone because those are doujin events.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Firestorm29 on February 20, 2015, 06:07:44 PM
Now that I'm not posting in the middle of the night, my point is that conventions already have a doujin event, they just call it Artist's Alley, which has become a misnomer for what actually goes on.   Sometimes non-art is seperated off into a Dealer's Room where you'll find stuff like toys and games, but that leaves things like books and music still in AA.  These places are loaded with self published fanworks and original works, and in Dealer's Rooms you can always find Japanese doujin goods being resold.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, I just think excluding artist alleys doesn't help anyone because those are doujin events.
I can kinda understand this, you can either be doujin or indie and be able to get in an AA area.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on February 21, 2015, 01:52:35 AM
The scope of our conversation only covered video games, really. I didn't think to ask about music/comics, but comics should be fine in an artist alley-type setting.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: skydash on February 23, 2015, 02:45:26 AM
I used to assumed Touhou Derivative works are not allowed to be sold by digital distribution.

But then,

http://dl.getchu.com/index.php?action=gd&gcd=D0032467&cp=

I have found Touhou Kokishin (Remilia 3D Action game) here.

Now, I confuse. Selling Touhou fangames by digital distribution is allowed or not ?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Firestorm29 on February 23, 2015, 08:01:23 AM
Pretty sure getchu is like some of the other doujin download site like melonbooks.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on February 23, 2015, 08:06:11 AM
Playism is also selling DDC and the Remilia game, so I imagine ZUN is willing to make exceptions.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on February 23, 2015, 09:12:24 AM
Based on information so far I will update the main post tonight. Anything that is questionable or confusing I shall treat as "negative advice"
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Soul Devour on March 09, 2015, 08:26:28 PM
Now that I'm not posting in the middle of the night, my point is that conventions already have a doujin event, they just call it Artist's Alley, which has become a misnomer for what actually goes on.   Sometimes non-art is seperated off into a Dealer's Room where you'll find stuff like toys and games, but that leaves things like books and music still in AA.  These places are loaded with self published fanworks and original works, and in Dealer's Rooms you can always find Japanese doujin goods being resold.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, I just think excluding artist alleys doesn't help anyone because those are doujin events.

I'm quite late in responding to this, but I can't help but agree.

All the Artist's Alleys I've been in consist of an artist's homemade goods, be it artwork, buttons, keystraps, keychains, plushies, figures and even in a couple rare cases, music and comics. Some of the stuff are original creations, although a much vaster portion of the wares I've seen are fanworks of one of the types I mentioned above (For example, a plushie Cucco dressed up as Link). I've never been to Comiket, but I'd imagine AAs are extremely similar to what one would see at Comiket, albeit at a much, *much* smaller scale. 

Edit: Tried to make it read slightly better.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on March 10, 2015, 01:52:31 AM
As I mentioned before, I only discussed games that night. If you want to sell merch/books/etc. in Artist Alleys, have at, but games aren't quite the same.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: skydash on March 17, 2015, 09:22:36 PM
http://www.dlsite.com/home/work/=/product_id/RJ141995.html

I have found Remilia 3D Action game here too. And other Touhou fangames in Dl site.
Is there and agreement as "If that Touhou fangame has been ever released in Comiket or Reitaisai before, That game is allowed to sell by digital download in a specific site." ?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on March 18, 2015, 02:07:11 AM
I think it's more the fact that if you're even on DLsite in the first place as a customer, you're aware of doujin culture and more than likely realize it's a fangame.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Shadow1176 on July 03, 2015, 05:20:32 PM
Hello, I just wanted to ask a few things.

I know that Touhou games cannot be published on Steam whether it be for free or paid, but does that extend to the Steam Workshop as well?
Because I'd like to create a Touhou fangame in RPG Maker VX which I have on Steam, and share it with others, but does that violate the guidelines of not being able to use Steam to distribute it?
Also, are there any content violations that I should also be aware of, such as using Spell Card names and other such related content, besides actually using official portraits and such?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on July 03, 2015, 05:48:33 PM
If you read the legal agreement associated with Steam Workshop, you are actually publishing the content through Steam.  This is why my game is distributed as a save file and the raw mod files.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Shadow1176 on July 03, 2015, 06:23:19 PM
Ah, thank you for the clear up. I was worried about that.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on July 03, 2015, 09:03:23 PM
Indeed, the reason Steam isn't greenlit is the same as many other large platforms -- it's the spreading and advertising of created content (using Touhou IP) to the masses, using that large platform.

Spell card names and the like are a non-issue; you're going to be using Touhou characters anyways. Don't use official data, basically?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on July 04, 2015, 03:38:18 AM
Don't use official data, basically?

I think what everything boils down to is "Don't make trouble for the original IP holders," in this case it's ZUN but it extends to the whole of doujin culture.

This means making it clear who is the original IP holder (marking your stuff as fanworks), don't make people think you're trying to profit off their IP (limited print runs), and self publish (this means basically no app stores or retail).

Not making trouble is also not a balancing act.  If something you're doing would make trouble for the original author, but you feel they'd benefit somehow, that is their decision to make, not yours.  In this case you'd need to reach out to the original author to work something out, simply assuming is no good.


Lastly, I'd like to say that with the culture in the West being what it is, it's actually easier to do an indie work than a doujin one.  If you think you're good enough to do something really cool, you need to ask yourself if it's worth tying it to someone else's IP and limiting yourself.  Obviously we're all big fans of Touhou here, but if you're making a game "For the Art" and just borrowing Touhou as a basis, it may be better for your project to be an original work free of doujin limitations, because in the West that kind of thing is readily accepted, and while you may not get the initial boost of followers it really opens up your options for getting the project done.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Eilaris on July 06, 2015, 02:36:57 AM
A note on excluding anime conventions: although this generally goes along with the sentiment of not selling Touhou fan material outside the context of the original series and so forth, the structure of conventions in Japan and NA (and likely Europe, etc) are different in that western conventions largely are built on interest-specific panels. Selling Touhou doujin material within the bounds of a Touhou-related panel (rather than a generic dealer room) is almost certainly acceptable, as one would expect most people who visit a panel are already acquainted with the series.

One thing to make note of here is to make sure you're not running afoul of the _convention's_ guidelines when you do this, as well - if I'm not mistaken, many conventions have guidelines which basically amount to "you're not allowed to sell things outside of approved vendor areas i.e. dealer's room/artist's alley" and if con staff care to enforce it they could theoretically kick you out of the con or something.  That being said, in most cases it might also be possible for Touhou panel organizers to arrange for special permission in advance, like the Touhou swap meet at AWA a couple years ago.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: james7132 on July 25, 2015, 03:13:57 AM
A point of clarification, is open source distribution via cloud hosted repositories or file hosting, like Github or MediaFire, OK? Strictly speaking, both are open digital distribution methods that are clearly not in a community familiar with Touhou, so would that rule out said distribution methods?

Likewise, if we were to create a networked fangame, and had some external service, like say a externally hosted matchmaking service, as an free option to improve upon gameplay, would that be OK?

Neither are for pay, and both are completely free (we would be hosting/paying for hosting the networking services as to remove all costs to the players).

I am not 100% sure what I am asking is relevant, but I just want to be absolutely sure before moving forward in using the aforementioned two features in my current and future projects.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on July 25, 2015, 05:11:22 PM
Whether something is hosted using a cloud service isn't an issue. The main difference between Github and Mediafire or other hosting sites is that through Github you can navigate your way to the repo through search functions and the like, which makes it a slightly wobblier option than some dedicated hosting site where the only way you're getting to the content is from a direct link. Meanwhile, besides the "public indexed repository" aspect of Github, I wouldn't call either of these "distribution methods" in the same sense as previously talked about, since their roles are generally more of pure hosting rather than... the point from which the author puts the content on display for distribution, and from which they would be putting purchase options if they chose to; I guess? Comparatively, hosting sites like Axfc are commonly used in Japan, or even better being Coolier since it's strictly Touhou fan uploads, but yeah the hosting itself isn't really any concern in most cases (both Axfc and Coolier are mostly used for small uploads though, as full-scale projects usually go physical or are put on a personal site etc).

I honestly can't answer that networking question since I don't know of any precedent. I would gauge that such a thing would be okay unless the service has ridiculous terms of use, but considering most networked doujin games use P2P and often roll their own netcode (or have fans roll it for them) I can't really say much for sure.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: HaxorViper on August 20, 2015, 02:45:22 AM
Do hacks count as doujin? And if not, do they follow the guidelines?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on August 20, 2015, 04:28:31 AM
Um, what do you mean by hack? That's pretty broad.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Sparen on August 20, 2015, 02:13:08 PM
Do hacks count as doujin? And if not, do they follow the guidelines?

If you are taking the game itself and are literally tearing apart the actual source or ecl code and replacing it, then maybe... just maybe, it would be considered doujin. But in this case you're walking a very gray boundary. If you're going to make a derivative work, it's best to make it yourself and not use the official game's engine (unless it's meant to be a patch or direct parody of the official game)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on August 20, 2015, 02:47:11 PM
It should be obvious that hacks to the games themselves are not allowed unless tools are provided (which they aren't for Touhou).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: BluDragon777 on October 03, 2015, 03:19:10 AM
Okay, so I want to make an arrangement of "Nuclear Fusion" from Subterranean Animism for a concert band, And so say a community band were to perform it, and charge 5$ to get into the performance (Noted, it would be among other songs).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on October 03, 2015, 02:50:23 PM
So long as ZUN is credited somewhere on the program it's probably not a big deal. They hold Touhou concerts over here all the time.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Kappa-kun on April 21, 2016, 08:56:10 AM
Hi, would I be considered a violator of the rule regarding the use of 東方 in naming doujin works if I did included 東方 in naming a tool/engine or that rule only concerns fangames?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 21, 2016, 10:03:42 AM
There's no rule forbidding you from using 東方XXX-style titles, but it's frowned upon. In any case there's no reason to use a japanese title if Japan isn't your primary target audience.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Kappa-kun on April 21, 2016, 10:15:46 AM
There's no rule forbidding you from using 東方XXX-style titles, but it's frowned upon. In any case there's no reason to use a japanese title if Japan isn't your primary target audience.

I see,  the general Touhou fan communities are my target audience eg.  be it Japan or the west so I guess it's fine to keep the Japanese title. Anyway, I will reconsider my choice of title. Thanks.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on April 26, 2016, 09:31:39 PM
Do JP doujin groups use 3rd party storefronts?  Because setting up your own sucks bigtime.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on April 27, 2016, 02:45:00 AM
That's pretty much what Melonbooks/Toranoana/Akiba-Hobby/etc. are.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on April 27, 2016, 01:00:16 PM
I thought those were resellers like jlist and required ZUN's ok.  Not places like storenvy where you could have "Moogs' Store"
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on April 27, 2016, 01:52:33 PM
Oh, that kind of stuff. If it's accessible though some other portal besides your own site, that might be a bit of gray area, leaning towards black.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on April 27, 2016, 02:18:00 PM
Yeah that's the assumption I had been running under but I thought I'd double check. Thanks.

Back to plan D
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: adzipl on May 16, 2016, 02:37:32 PM
Just done reading the whole thread. Phew!

So, Moogs, you didn't have any problems and got the permission from ZUN/one of his people?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on May 16, 2016, 04:00:42 PM
Danmaku is a doujin work, not an official one. We got permission from ZUN years ago to enter a design competition which could have resulted in a publishing deal but we didn't win.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: adzipl on May 16, 2016, 05:41:06 PM
So...

It could be an OFFICIAL card game, if I understand it right. Thanks for clarifying.

(although that would be amazing if it happened. If you know, what did win that contest?)


Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on May 16, 2016, 05:48:38 PM
A publishing deal would result in commercial sales, but that wouldn't make it an official game. For example, the works in the Play,Doujin! initiative are being published, but they still aren't official games (besides ULiL).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Moogs Parfait on May 16, 2016, 05:57:14 PM
Searching in my email I can find us talking about the contest but no mention of the name.  I don't remember what won.  I have this weird hunch it might have been Superfight
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: adzipl on May 16, 2016, 07:47:38 PM
@Drake

Oh, okay. Now I undrestand it fully. Thanks.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Spacechurro on February 07, 2017, 05:30:08 AM
I'm not entirely sure if this is the appropriate place to ask this, but it seems about closest than anything else, and I didn't want to make an entire new topic so...

I was wondering if it was discouraged to make a game from Danmakufu that plays the same as Touhou, but contain no Touhou characters, and is just it's own story. Would that be considered stealing a game mechanic, or abusing the program to use to make my own game? No publishing, or payment.

Also, this is more of a personal question, but using my own characters wouldn't make everyone hate it, or angry, right?

I'm having a hard time explaining my question, so I hope you guys understand it.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Romantique Tp on February 07, 2017, 06:17:50 AM
Of course you're not obligated to make it a Touhou fangame. It's the same as any other free engine. Many games made with Danmakufu have original stories and characters.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Sparen on February 07, 2017, 06:19:29 AM
I'm not entirely sure if this is the appropriate place to ask this, but it seems about closest than anything else, and I didn't want to make an entire new topic so...

I was wondering if it was discouraged to make a game from Danmakufu that plays the same as Touhou, but contain no Touhou characters, and is just it's own story. Would that be considered stealing a game mechanic, or abusing the program to use to make my own game? No publishing, or payment.

Also, this is more of a personal question, but using my own characters wouldn't make everyone hate it, or angry, right?

I'm having a hard time explaining my question, so I hope you guys understand it.

Danmakufu's license states the following:

Code: [Select]
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are
met:

    * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
      notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
    * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above
      copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following
      disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided
      with the distribution.
    * Neither the name of the Hiroshima University nor the names of
      its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products
      derived from this software without specific prior written
      permission.

You can basically use Danmakufu for anything as long as you include the DNH license.

The shmup is a genre, so as long as you don't contain ANY Touhou characters and do not use ANY of ZUN's resources, you're in the clear. Refer to Len'en as a successful example.

If you do make a Danmaku game without any connection to Touhou, be prepared to not face hate or anger but rather ignorance. You're going to have to put effort into marketing your game if you want people to play it. For me at least, I've been working on a danmaku game for two years and I can count the number of people willing to playtest the game with the fingers on my hands.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Spacechurro on February 07, 2017, 06:03:00 PM
Thank you so much!
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: james7132 on July 26, 2017, 09:28:53 AM
I know of Bandcamp as a potential grey area when it comes to distribution, with it's Pay What you Want payment scheme and sub-website (platform acts as host to each user's personal mini-website) layout. This brings into question whether it is a questionable "OK" to  distribute Touhou fangames on sites like https://itch.io, which have similar setup of personalized sub-website and pay what you want. Is it?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on July 26, 2017, 10:27:48 AM
The fact that it's still definitely geared towards promotion within the site itself through stuff like browsing/searching and popularity/ratings, makes it definitely more dangerous than bandcamp. Are there even good examples of other such derivative works being on itch? I've never really seen any. Ultimately I think ZUN would parade something like itch for indie development, but that isn't really the issue.

One of the dangers I think exists with any kind of platform used to start uploading/selling Touhou derivative works, and I'm sure this was also part of why the derivative guidelines are worded as such, is that once something is seen as a precedent, anything becomes fair game. If it becomes seen as legitimate and works start popping up everywhere, the isolation factor begins to unravel. It's also quite difficult to moderate any system that isn't closely tied to the doujin scene (heck, look at the total lack of moderation over Steam despite it being disallowed and often being stolen content). This isn't a problem with many similar japanese sites due to the ecosystem but I don't really know how it would be feasible to cross that gap from the western side. It's a tough question.

Selling on something like DLsite (http://www.dlsite.com/eng/) is like a working option, legitimacy-wise. They are explicitly a doujin shop with a non-trivial amount of Touhou works, with some big names to its credit, and there is official english support including for creators. That being said their tools are definitely not as amazing as itch, and I don't think there is PWYW or anything like that, so if the goal is to be able to capitalize on features like that it obviously doesn't work. But it is an actual option for digital distribution and sales.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: james7132 on July 27, 2017, 11:49:48 PM
The fact that it's still definitely geared towards promotion within the site itself through stuff like browsing/searching and popularity/ratings, makes it definitely more dangerous than bandcamp. Are there even good examples of other such derivative works being on itch? I've never really seen any. Ultimately I think ZUN would parade something like itch for indie development, but that isn't really the issue.

Bandcamp definitely has the aforementioned search and ratings (as a function of recent download/purchase rate), so I would argue that it isn't exactly all that much different. It is true that there is no major precedent for Touhou derivative works being distributed via the platform. I'll definitely take a look at what's needed to put something on DLsite, didn't know they had self-publishing tools.

Another question regarding this, where does Patreon stand in all of this? A lot of doujin creators use it from minusT to LunarSpotlightMedia of Gensokyo Radio to the plethora of artists that draw Touhou. Arguably, it avoids the crowdfunding/donation issue by taking it as a donation directly to the creator rather than donating towards the explicit end-product. Giving perks/exclusive content is also pretty common case there. It may not be directly crowdfunding, but it shares a lot of similarities with it. Admittedly many people who have them do not exclusively create Touhou content, but, in some cases like minusT, it's pretty darn apparent that their sole focus is to create Touhou doujin content.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: RH on September 25, 2017, 04:23:23 PM
Its a can of worms to open but I wanted to ask if there's anything in the guidelines that is meant to be prohibiting the way touhou is treated on twitch.tv. Theres several channels that are basically just gaming channels that cater to the ironic weeaboo cropped porn steam avatar crowd who use the name of touhou characters and the series in general to attract an audience, who can purchase touhou character themed emotes by subscribing to them and paying a monthly fee.

The only problem I see is that these people don't actually create anything, and aren't technically selling anything either. I'm fairly certain this is against ZUN's wishes however since it is using his intellectual property and broadcasting his work to a larger than intended audience, "selling" online while unaffiliated with dojin or TSA,

Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on September 25, 2017, 11:27:10 PM
There has been explicit acceptance of people being able to monetize video content through partnership programs on Nico with people playing Touhou and whatnot, and this kind of precedence likely extends towards something like Twitch streaming and/or Youtube videos of Touhou and fangames, etc. However this does not necessarily extend to using the Touhou brand superficially, where the works are not the focus of the content.

This is not as clean-cut as something like LINE stamps, which cannot be distributed for free, and are forbidden to be created without permission from the copyright holder. Twitch doesn't have such a policy for sub emotes and just warns you that you're liable to having action taken against you if the IP holder gets mad; obviously it thrives on emotes based on video games and is full of minor cases of infringement of much larger rights holders than ZUN.

As far as ZUN's guidelines go, the "purchase" and usage is similar to LINE stamps, and I would be on the side of saying this is unapproved usage. The fact that subbing doesn't intrinsically get you much besides the emotes suggests it's a purchase of that specific content (in contrast to something like a Patreon, although that's a whole other mess), additionally being able to bring emotes outside of the subbed channel, giving people the external incentive to sub, could also be seen as a form of public marketing. Twitch clearly has no problems with any of this because of the cut they receive from all subscriptions.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: ExPorygon on March 13, 2018, 11:33:23 PM
It's been a few months since ZUN basically gave full permission (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,21113.msg1373554.html#msg1373554) for fan game makers to upload their games onto Steam. Drake went on to mention that this thread's first post (along with the Wiki's Copyright page) need reworking. I heavily agree with him, especially after spending 10 minutes looking through that thread to find the part where ZUN made his statements on the matter.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Helepolis on April 05, 2018, 04:20:17 PM
What I am going to do is read the all official and hopefully properly translated material and then update the opening post. Most likely the second post will be cleared out as it is currently more confusing than ever.


Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: HumanReploidJP on June 16, 2018, 10:38:41 AM
  • If you decide to release your work on your own website, you are not allowed to ask money for it.
  • Additionally, you are not allowed to sell your work online through websites or programs if they:
    • Don't have relationship with Touhou Project or ZUN.
    • Are not Doujin orientated. (For example: Devian Art is NOT a Doujin and Touhou affiliated website. You can post art, but cannot sell it.)
I would understand how that actually works. Posting artworks that's based on the touhou series, and are NOT allowed for commercial use.

There's also this quote that ZUN persuades artists the most: "If you need data rather than screenshots, please make them yourself."

It's similar that it's different, in contrast that artworks based on the touhou series are allowed to post, but NOT for commercial use.

Story of my life, read my lou (letter of understanding) reaction in the description of my above made 'non-commercial (NO MONEY ALLOWED. Period.)' artwork posted at pixiv by clicking the link to read it: https://pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=69258272 (https://pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=69258272) then click 続きを読む(read more) one you're on the website.

I'm not gonna get into deep verge of troublesome tragedies if you react to this. Let me know...
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: HumanReploidJP on June 16, 2018, 11:18:25 AM
Danmakufu's license states the following:

Code: [Select]
Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are
met:

    * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
      notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
    * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above
      copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following
      disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided
      with the distribution.
    * Neither the name of the Hiroshima University nor the names of
      its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products
      derived from this software without specific prior written
      permission.

You can basically use Danmakufu for anything as long as you include the DNH license.

The shmup is a genre, so as long as you don't contain ANY Touhou characters and do not use ANY of ZUN's resources, you're in the clear. Refer to Len'en as a successful example.

If you do make a Danmaku game without any connection to Touhou, be prepared to not face hate or anger but rather ignorance. You're going to have to put effort into marketing your game if you want people to play it. For me at least, I've been working on a danmaku game for two years and I can count the number of people willing to playtest the game with the fingers on my hands.

Quick question: Do you actually plan to make a fan game that doesn't contain touhou characters with the DNH license? Why, if so?

P.S. I'm not trying to blame the circumstances based on copyright terms based on the DNH, but just to research about how any fan-made game that does/doesn't contain touhou characters using DNH does.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Sparen on June 16, 2018, 03:01:33 PM
Quick question: Do you actually plan to make a fan game that doesn't contain touhou characters with the DNH license? Why, if so?

P.S. I'm not trying to blame the circumstances based on copyright terms based on the DNH, but just to research about how any fan-made game that does/doesn't contain touhou characters using DNH does.

Next time, please bring this up on my project thread rather than in this one, but to answer your question:

Danmakufu is a surprisingly versatile tool that can be used for things other than SHMUPs. In addition, it is currently one of the best options available specifically for SHMUPs. Personally, if you made me choose between Unity 2D, Godot, Game Maker, or Danmakufu, for this specific genre I would always choose Danmakufu 100% of the time.

Not all SHMUPs are Touhou based, and if someone wants to make a danmaku SHMUP with or without Touhou characters, Danmakufu is a viable choice.

-----

Note: You stated the following:
Quote
Quick question: Do you actually plan to make a fan game that doesn't contain touhou characters with the DNH license? Why, if so?
By asking if I am making a fan game without Touhou characters, you are insinuating that I am making a fan game of another franchise. Technically, my main project is not a fan game but a standalone Touhou-inspired danmaku SHMUP with no connection to the Touhou universe except for the fact that Touhou's existence is known as a franchise.

A few months ago we had a discussion on RaNGE whether Touhou-inspired games were allowed on RaNGE, and that might be an interesting read as well.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: HumanReploidJP on June 16, 2018, 11:54:20 PM
Next time, please bring this up on my project thread rather than in this one, but to answer your question:

Danmakufu is a surprisingly versatile tool that can be used for things other than SHMUPs. In addition, it is currently one of the best options available specifically for SHMUPs. Personally, if you made me choose between Unity 2D, Godot, Game Maker, or Danmakufu, for this specific genre I would always choose Danmakufu 100% of the time.

Not all SHMUPs are Touhou based, and if someone wants to make a danmaku SHMUP with or without Touhou characters, Danmakufu is a viable choice.

-----

Note: You stated the following:By asking if I am making a fan game without Touhou characters, you are insinuating that I am making a fan game of another franchise. Technically, my main project is not a fan game but a standalone Touhou-inspired danmaku SHMUP with no connection to the Touhou universe except for the fact that Touhou's existence is known as a franchise.

A few months ago we had a discussion on RaNGE whether Touhou-inspired games were allowed on RaNGE, and that might be an interesting read as well.

Oh... I think I understand now. thanks...

Quote
Note: You stated the following:By asking if I am making a fan game without Touhou characters, you are insinuating that I am making a fan game of another franchise. Technically, my main project is not a fan game but a standalone Touhou-inspired danmaku SHMUP with no connection to the Touhou universe except for the fact that Touhou's existence is known as a franchise.

And I'm not insinuating in any ways, but I'm just trying to be specific, in a responsible way. My mistake...
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: HumanReploidJP on June 21, 2018, 03:53:16 AM
I'm confused when I test Danmakufu with my practice while I live in Philippines at the Southeast Asia...

But for real... What's the difference about creating a touhou fangame that would work for money or work for no money? And where do fanmade touhou programmers work with competence?

Because 6 days ago, I understand that making fanmade touhou games that contains another franchise game (i.e., Steins; Gate, To Aru Kagaku no Railgun, etc.) is forbidden... (Thanks, SparenofIria).

Anyone out there, please respond. Thank you...
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Sparen on June 21, 2018, 01:46:33 PM
I'm confused when I test Danmakufu with my practice while I live in Philippines at the Southeast Asia...

But for real... What's the difference about creating a touhou fangame that would work for money or work for no money? And where do fanmade touhou programmers work with competence?

Because 6 days ago, I understand that making fanmade touhou games that contains another franchise game (i.e., Steins; Gate, To Aru Kagaku no Railgun, etc.) is forbidden... (Thanks, SparenofIria).

Anyone out there, please respond. Thank you...

In general, unless you have written permission/a license from the original creator, selling fan games is, simply put, illegal. Touhou is a gray area in that it's an open IP, but I would advise against trying to make money off of your Touhou fan game. In general, I personally feel the money you expect to make by selling a Touhou fan game should only offset development costs/cost of printing CDs/cost of purchasing a booth at a convention.

So if you plan to sell a Touhou fangame on Steam and charge 40 dollars for it, I'm going to advise against that unless ZUN has specifically OK'd it.

(Note that this post is purely my opinion - I am not a legal expert and should not be treated as such).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: HumanReploidJP on June 25, 2018, 11:07:25 AM
Hmm... Speaking of which... What about the fangames with crossovers (i.e., Phantasmagoria of Imagine Breaker made by Gore: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Re.Phantasmagoria_of_Imagine_Breaker (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Re.Phantasmagoria_of_Imagine_Breaker)), would that be considered illegal, unless they are specified with the original authors' permission?

If so, then I would regret this... after I cancel my circle which I will make it 5 years from now (take a look at my signature below... MiraikeiBudoukan (Futuristic Vineyard), which it's my own original circle (like JynX, the developer of the Len'en series. So, my bullet-hell-inspired game concept would be "Star of Idols/Aidoruhoshi". No fangame of my work made by others will be made! I'm working in progress! Wait patiently, but don't get too serious).
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Sparen on June 25, 2018, 12:21:03 PM
Hmm... Speaking of which... What about the fangames with crossovers (i.e., Phantasmagoria of Imagine Breaker made by Gore: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Re.Phantasmagoria_of_Imagine_Breaker (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Re.Phantasmagoria_of_Imagine_Breaker)), would that be considered illegal, unless they are specified with the original authors' permission?

PoIB falls into the doujin gray area, where companies (selectively) choose to ignore usage of their IP. This is a very Japanese thing and I personally do not know how how each company views it - some are more tolerant than others, and some forms of media are tolerated more than others.

Once again, I'm not a legal expert and we took a very unfortunate plunge into the legalities a few years back that I'm sure nobody here at RaNGE wants to repeat.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Deftera Ikari on November 21, 2018, 10:58:36 AM
What if I made my own bullet hell that has nothing related to Touhou other than the system is similar to it?
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on November 21, 2018, 11:37:36 AM
Then that'd be just a danmaku shmup. People would take it as a rip-off or homage depending on how it's presented.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: HumanReploidJP on March 25, 2019, 01:07:57 PM
Hmm... What about fanmade music tracks? (I have made one with LMMS "FREE", little touhou-stylish, NO PROFITS ALLOWED: https://bit.ly/2U4fKWZ (https://bit.ly/2U4fKWZ)) ???

Are they considered illegal, or are they just half-free? (unlike fan touhou tracks written and printed in CDs)

If so then, I'm very serious creating loopholes on copyright problems to face off. Hey, I'm not trying to criticize for one second, but to let know that I can understand with your answers.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: N-Forza on March 25, 2019, 03:02:19 PM
If they're arrangements of existing Touhou music, then it should be fine as long as they're free. If they're simply Touhou-styled but not based on anything from ZUN's compositions, you can do whatever you want with them.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: VividMemory2000 on September 17, 2019, 08:01:43 AM
>Make an animation (Be it an MMD, Sprite based or a different style
>Put it on YT
>Apply monetization to said video

I did read the post but seems to be more focused on things like comics, merch and games, reading it on the wiki didn't help much either. (probably because i'm not properly comprehending it?)

Something that's going to be frowned upon or just flat out copyright infringement (breaking guidelines?)

Still going to do 2hu stuff regardless of the answer since i just want to do animation (don't have anything at the moment because i'm just lazy)
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: Drake on September 17, 2019, 11:53:23 PM
Monetizing videos of Touhou works has been allowed for a little while, but monetizing videos using materials and content from other creators is infringement unless you're given license to do so. If you're using existing MMD models and motions, or existing sprites, etc, it would be infringement to monetize those without permission from the respective creators.
Title: Re: ※How to make Touhou derived work - Doujin & ZUN's Touhou guidelines
Post by: VividMemory2000 on September 18, 2019, 09:07:29 PM
The permission bit was obvious and pretty easy, but licencing is new to me.

What about Tasfro's touhou character sprites (IaMP - AoCF?) if i do need perms/licencing where do i contact them (or they just don't allow it at all?)