Touhou Project 12.5 ~ ダブルスポイラー (Double Spoiler) announced, girls are preparing.

[Gpop]

I hate almost everything about EoSD.

Even the system.

[Bananamatic]

UFO practice is really crappy though.

You start with 2 power and lose 1 after every death? It doesn't really let you practice anything with permanent 1 power. Except for timeouts.

[Azinth]

Touhou sucks.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

I'm not trolling btw

No, you're stating your opinion, which is good.

I personally like SA's system more than MoF's, because it's easier to gain extra lives (at least it seems to me). As for UFO, I like it, but I agree on the awful power system.
But with ZUN, there's really no knowing which direction he will continue in.
I'm personally hoping for something team-based like IN again, but as long as the power system is better than UFO I'll pretty much accept everything.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

MoF and SA are Zun's 2 best games. Things started getting better with IN.

No crappy hitboxes like EoSD, no bad movement speeds like PCB. No where near as much clipdeath as EoSD or PCB. I don't even remember the last time I clipdeathed in either MoF or SA, but it happens every time I play EoSD or PCB. Mostly balanced shottypes depending on playstyle.

Then UFO went to the same crap I hate EoSD for. Overly random boss attacks, lots of walling, lots of clipdeath. And unlike EoSD where it's mainly the bosses that cause issues, the stages have most of these issues as well.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

That reminds me, one of the things I want Zun to really fix is the visibility of bullets on items. About a fourth of my deaths on UFO stem from the fact that I can't see a blue bullet on a cluster of blue items. It's really annoying to die that way.

[Bananamatic]

And why does 90% of UFO bullets glow

[Formless God]

Seriously, those glowing bullets are much easier to see than those in PCB and IN. Mesh of Light and Darkness, Maiden's Bunraku, Keine, for example.

Spoiler:

(the only complaint about UFO!Bullets so far is Superhuman where Byaku charges right in front of your face, and add to that glowing effect ...)

Heck, I could do 80% of post-Midboss!Nazrin without bombs/misses, but I still occasionally clip those.

[Letty Whiterock]

Touhou sucks.

Agreed.

[Kilgamayan]

[Bananamatic]

Agreed.

hopping on the bandwagon

the only good thing is stage practice and extra

[TL777 ✌]

Touhou sucks.

[Serela]

I think part of the reason for the "terrible power systems MoF+" may be that ZUN is trying to make non-max power levels actually exist past stage one.

MoF and SA's power systems weren't bad (although the bombs themselves could have been done better), although UFO does really screw you over for dying more then once within a small amount of time.

I think a cool idea for a power system would be where you just go up one power level for each stage, which could also make shot type balancing a lot more specific. That of course leaves power items out of the picture though, so... yeah. Even that has flaws in it.

[theshirn]

Dodonpachi sucks.

Fix'd.

MoF/SA's power systems are all right, but UFO's is terrible.  You are punished, SEVERELY, for dying.  Die twice on one spell card, or a noncard and the following card, and your power is halved for the rest of the boss?  Please.  It encourages bomb spamming more than any other game, even MoF.  That is not a good thing.

[Tengukami]

If you learn how to chain UFOs properly you have little to worry about, though.

I don't know. I think ZUN manages to create a decent balance from game to game while still trying new things. Maybe I just don't nitpick enough.

[Bananamatic]

If you learn how to chain UFOs properly you have little to worry about, though.

I don't know. I think ZUN manages to create a decent balance from game to game while still trying new things. Maybe I just don't nitpick enough.

80% of a 1cc is a planned UFO route.
If you memorize the stages and follow a set UFO route, you can bomb everything which is even slightly dangerous and still 1cc it

baity himself said it

"learning how to chain UFOs" means "memorize a path"

yo dawg I heard you like touhou so we put a memorizer into a memorizer so you can memorize while you memorize

[Tengukami]

As opposed to the other Touhou games where the patterns are constantly changing and you don't need to memorize anything?

[Solais]

You're being too mature and reasonable Ammy!

[LHCling]

yo dawg I heard you like touhou so we put a memorizer into a memorizer so you can memorize while you memorize

the only good thing is stage practice and extra

Interesting.
Besides, don't most shmups (stages) revolve around memorizing anyway?

Also, this is starting to derail.
Cut cut:

You're being too mature and reasonable Ammy!

This isn't a bad thing and I respect him for it.

[theshirn]

As opposed to the other Touhou games where the patterns are constantly changing and you don't need to memorize anything?

Durr, are we really having the EXACT SAME BIT over again?  Yes, you have to memorize in any shmup and in Touhou, but UFO takes it to the extreme.

Stop recycling arguments, guys.

[Tengukami]

Durr, are we really having the EXACT SAME BIT over again?  Yes, you have to memorize in any shmup and in Touhou, but UFO takes it to the extreme.

Stop recycling arguments, guys.

It's just a strange point to make. It's like complaining that the bullets are fast, or that you have to fight bosses.

Moreover, there isn't just one path through UFO. You can chain UFOs here and there, going for reds sometimes, greens others, or on some occassions just playing it safe and not going after UFOs at all.

This "there is but one path through UFO!" is news to me, and really, really bizarre.

[theshirn]

It's just a strange point to make. It's like complaining that the bullets are fast, or that you have to fight bosses.

BAWWWWW REMILIA IS BS THIS SERIES IS SO STUPID

...erm, sorry.

[Bananamatic]

Wasn't this thread derailed long ago because we ran out of stuff to discuss about? :Vwhatever let's take it into another thread like before

extra is cool because one derp won't kill your run and there aren't st1 and st2 which you have to restart for an hour straight

UFO would be 10 times cooler if the power system wouldn't kill any possible fun in stage practice

also why do I get 0,07 power after a death
is the game supposed to laugh at you or something

[Danielu Yoshikoto]

It's just a strange point to make. It's like complaining that the bullets are fast, or that you have to fight bosses.

OR that this game is rediciously hard (even one elementary school kid level)

Edit: WHY DID THIS TAKE ME 3 TIMES TO POST?

[Tengukami]

And WTF is up with those FPS games? Why is my hand in my field of vision all the time? I don't walk around with my hand outstretched in front of my face. Why would it be any different in a world gone mad at the bottom of the ocean with mutants and libertarians and little girls all trying to kill me?

[Bananamatic]

And WTF is up with those FPS games? Why is my hand in my field of vision all the time?

>options
>display
>draw gun: off

[Tengukami]

Oh. Heh.

Never mind.

[LHCling]

but UFO takes it to the extreme

Errrr... no. It can potentially though, as can all other games. The point is moot.

You can sightread UFO chaining. And if you can't do that then you need to understand the two fundamental rules regarding UFO color changing.

extra is cool because one derp won't kill your run and there aren't st1 and st2 which you have to restart for an hour straight

The point I'm making is that it (Extra) has been described by many people as "lol-memorization" all the way through. Though, UFO seems to be more random (or "over the top"[not my opinion] in some cases) in its Stage more than any other Windows Extra at this point.

UFO would be 10 times cooler if the power system wouldn't kill any possible fun in stage practice

Define. And examples please. Keep in mind that there's only one Stage where I would complain about Power being a pain.

Now I don't know about you, but I find it more fun when I can stay inside the attacks for longer. And more rewarding if I get out unscathed.

[Bananamatic]

Define. And examples please. Keep in mind that there's only one Stage where I would complain about Power being a pain.

Every single stage.
I want to try to dodge the attacks, to figure them out without bombing(stage too - and the initial 2 power doesn't help) - then I get a good run on a hard spellcard and it ends out with a death at 7 seconds left because I didn't bombspam everything before that card.

You are also much better than me, so you probably don't need that much power...but 1 power are potential timeouts even with constant shooting.

[Azinth]

I was being facetious when I said that Touhou sucked.  I thought it was kinda moronically obvious, but apparently not.

UFO doesn't require any more memorization than any other Touhou game.  A shmup that gives you potentially 12+ lives and bombs being called a 'memorizer' is just retarded.

And all this 'my game is better than yours' garbage getting thrown around is getting really fucking annoying.  Both sides are displaying such ignorance that I don't even.  Why can't you all just play what you enjoy and shut the fuck up, I mean Jesus Christ.