Touhou 15 「東方紺珠伝 ～ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom」 Patch 1.00b released

[nintendonut888]

Spoiler:

No, I mean it literally says they failed. "The plan failed! You didn't beat Junko!" Apparently you really did need the drug to win.

Reimu's ending has her tell Sanae that she failed. Marisa's ending is about Reisen lecturing her for failing (she took the elixir from Eirin, but put it in her collection instead of drinking it). Sanae's ending is her getting re-trained by Kanako because she was no match for the Lunarians. Reisen's ending is her panicking over going back to Eientei without succeeding, and having disobeyed Eirin's order to drink the elixir. Kaguya convinces her that the new intel on the Hell Fairies and Hecatia made the trip worth it despite her failure.

By contrast, the pointdevice endings are all about the characters bragging that they saved the moon.

Spoiler:

Huh, that's interesting. Considering Junko isn't any different gameplay-wise between the two modes, does this mean the heroine failing to stop her plan is a result of being impure, rather than being unable to defeat her? I'm still a little unclear on the extent of what Junko's ability can do, but I wonder if Junko's ability somehow requires either the elixir or a "pure" run of the game to counteract it.

[Starxsword]

I don't think the Lunarians themselves would have a serious problem when faced with impurity, rather it's something that must not affect the Lunar capital.

I am pretty sure there is a difference between Remilia bringing fairy maids and the fairies from hell that come to the moon.

The fairies that Remilia brought with her are just on vacation, they are not planning to reside there.

The fairies Clown Piece brought with her come there to live and thus create life, because that's what fairies do. They live in a tree, it grows. They live in the ocean, life exists.
Lunarians have no way of getting rid of these fairies, because killing them is impossible. So, the Lunarians run away.

Oh, thank you. That would imply that the process of the moon terraforming *is* radical enough to develop an atmosphere and enough nature to provide oxygen. A change like that wouldn't slip unnoticed by the Outside World unless the current look of the moon is somehow hidden from them.

There is no way the outside world can detect such a change. There is no technology we have currently that can do that from that distance.
To detect such a change, there needs to be something already there observing oxygen levels.
A change like that, I would say, will definitely slip unnoticed by the outside world, simply for the fact that we don't have such ridiculously good detection devices.

[Lishy1]

Isn't the flag that was planted on the "moon" currently in Eientei? The design could be related to that.

This is actually a really solid theory.... I like it.

[CyberAngel]

The Legacy endings

Spoiler:

all imply that the protagonist failed. They're kind of bad endings, but longer and more in depth. In Reimu's, she gives up on driving off the invading moon rabbits, but then the moon rabbits end up integrated into Gensokyo society anyway, with the final invasion indefinitely delayed.

That looks like another similarity to IN.

Spoiler:

There, Final A endings were sort-of failures as well, and implied heroines tried again to get Final B endings. Maybe the situation here could be interpreted similarly, except there's no alternative stage 6, just some different dialogue.

[Valar]

There is no way the outside world can detect such a change. There is no technology we have currently that can do that from that distance.
To detect such a change, there needs to be something already there observing oxygen levels.
A change like that, I would say, will definitely slip unnoticed by the outside world, simply for the fact that we don't have such ridiculously good detection devices.

We actually do have such devices since a breathable atmosphere creates various effects that can be seen with just a telescope, not to mention spectrometers.

[Valar]

Can someone please make a general summary of the endings? I'm dying to know what happened)

[Clarste]

Can someone please make a general summary of the endings? I'm dying to know what happened)

Looking at the game files, I've confirmed that there are only 8 endings.

Pointdevice:

Reimu:

Spoiler:

Reimu confronts Eirin about being used as a pawn, asking why she didn't tell her about Junko, etc. Eirin simply responds that if she'd told the truth  then Reimu probably wouldn't have gone. Reimu leaves, unsatisfied, but gets stopped on the way out by Tewi. Tewi asks about Junko, because she wants to know the Lunarians' weaknesses, for future reference. However, she denies wanting to fight them, she just wants to do business. Reimu looks forward to whatever Tewi is planning.

Marisa:

Spoiler:

Marisa's back at home, pissed about being used by Eirin but satisfied that at least she got an explanation of where the Occult Balls came from (she's holding the Lunar Capital orb). Yukari pops in out of nowhere, asks to see the orb, but denies wanting to confiscate it or that it would dangerous for Gensokyo. She tells Marisa that Gensokyo is capable of change, and Marisa freaks out over the implications of that. Also the orb disappeared while they were talking.

Sanae:

Spoiler:

Sanae goes home to the Moriya shrine and writes a comically exaggerated report of her mission for Kanako. Kanako notices the name Sagume in the report, realizes that it's probably the famous god Sagume, and thinks about the implications of the Heavenly gods moving to Earth. She compares it to when Amaterasu's grandson came down to Earth in ancient times, and notes that Sanae accidentally got revenge for the native gods by stopping the invasion.

Reisen:

Spoiler:

Reisen reports to Eirin, asks about Junko, and gets treated to a long lecture about Junko and Chang'e and their family trees, complete with a diagram. She doesn't quite get it, but feels closer to Eirin now that she knows one of the secrets of the Lunar Capital.

Legacy

Reimu:

Spoiler:

Sanae comes by the shrine to ask why the moon rabbits are still here, and Reimu says she didn't drink the elixir and failed (she didn't drink it because she was suspicious of the ingredients). Later, Ringo comes by and tells her that the rumors of the youkai shrine have spread even to the moon, and she's always wanted to see it. Apparently the lunar vehicle they brought with them makes it so youkai can't see the rabbits (it only affects those with especially strong impurity, like youkai). In other words, the moon really didn't want to have to fight the youkai.

Marisa:

Spoiler:

Reisen comes to Marisa's house to scold her for failing the mission. Marisa didn't drink the elixir because she thought it was too valuable to waste. Reisen decides that she just can't trust humans to get anything done, so she'll have to drink the elixir and go to the moon herself. During the conversation, Marisa realizes that even Reisen doesn't seem to know exactly what the elixir is, so she figures not drinking it was the right choice.

Sanae:

Spoiler:

Sanae is being trained by Kanako in a harsh drill sergeant manner, because she came back from the moon all beaten up. Apparently in this timeline Sanae's gods told her not to take the elixir so they could keep and analyze it. Suwako figures out that in addition to letting the user experience the future, it also "purifies their past," removing all impurity. This would apparently instantly defeat a native god, but would just turn Sanae into a cleansed human. Blah blah blah kegare is life and death, etc. Then the narration gets all philosophical about how having infinite lives makes death feel trivial.

Reisen:

Spoiler:

Reisen is outside Eientei, panicking about what to do after having disobeyed Eirin. Apparently stress causes her ears to wilt (is that why they're crumpled?). Kaguya shows up, and advises her to remember what Clownpiece said about being from Hell, and also that she was working for her master's friend. This implies the presence of a third party other than Junko, something Eirin did not predict. Kaguya convinces Reisen that bringing back this valuable intel would be enough for Eirin the praise her. This ending seems to lead into the Extra stage.

[PK]

Spoiler:

Huh, that's interesting. Considering Junko isn't any different gameplay-wise between the two modes, does this mean the heroine failing to stop her plan is a result of being impure, rather than being unable to defeat her? I'm still a little unclear on the extent of what Junko's ability can do, but I wonder if Junko's ability somehow requires either the elixir or a "pure" run of the game to counteract it.

Spoiler:

Seeing how we get the "you're too impure to defeat me" thing only with misses even in legacy mode, how Junko talks about errors/wounds, and Reimu's profile saying that this time there is no room for errors, maybe this impurity comes from being wounded and thus being slightly closer to death than if they didn't get hit once.
Also, since Junko is also in extra (that is basically only in legacy mode), maybe she says something important about this matter.

[HalfGrand]

Oh wow, my prediction about the final boss reacting to "impurities" based on dying/game performance that I made months ago on the other thread turned out to be correct... what are the odds!

Spoiler:

Too bad Junko didn't go all 'true final boss' on us if we didn't die once or did a 1CC in legacy or whatever. Oh well, next phantasm!

Remember what I said about the smirk / cocky faces all the girls show in this game? What's with that!!!

Cocky face is a sexy face. I love it!

[FlareDragon]

Something I just noticed: Segume does not personally shoot at you once until her final attack. Instead, she sends out her orbs to attack for her. Kinda matches the whole "not-talking" thing, since she winds up talking a whole bunch after the fight

[PK]

I wonder if lunarians are gonna stop acting like superior alpha bitches all the time,

Spoiler:

now that they got their asses saved by earthlings

. Maybe we could get some more interactions between them and Gensokyo. Or even better, lunarians as playable characters in the spin-offs :V
This would also help if ZUN plans to release another PMiSS/SoPM-like book, since Akyuu wouldn't be able to meet anyone from LoLK, except for Doremy.

[Tengukami]

I wonder if lunarians are gonna stop acting like superior alpha bitches all the time,

Spoiler:

now that they got their asses saved by earthlings

.

You'd think that, but looking at real-life examples, I somehow doubt it.

Also, I love how Sanae likens the giant metallic spider crawling over Gensokyo to the Curiosity rover - which was launched in 2011. Since this is after she entered Gensokyo, I guess she's following what's happening in the outside world somehow. Which is pretty neat!

e: unspoiler'd for ease of reading for you ancient mobile phone owners

[Maple]

Current translations:

Frozen Capital of Eternity
The fourth stage theme.

It's the Lunar Capital. For some reason, it has been completely abandoned.
This song has a relaxing feel to it, but conjures an image of madness when played in reverse.

It's music more befitting the later parts of a RPG than a shooting game. Oh well, it's too late now.

Did anyone try to play the song in reverse and confirm this? Instead making a song purposely sound similar in reverse (Hartmann's Youkai Girl and Reverse Ideology) we now have purposely opposite themes when played back and forth.

EDIT: disregard this post, the translations have been tweaked. Now it is "It's a song with a calm atmosphere, but on the contrary, it evokes an image of madness."

[CyberAngel]

Also, I love how Sanae

Spoiler:

likens the giant metallic spider crawling over Gensokyo to the Curiosity rover - which was launched in 2011. Since this is after she entered Gensokyo, I guess she's following what's happening in the outside world somehow. Which is pretty neat!

Spoiler:

Maybe she frequents Kourindou to look for magazines from outside.

...Wait, why are you using spoiler tag for that? This was known ever since demo's prologue.

[NekoNekoRex]

Funny thing happened at the touhou panel at Matsuricon. The hosts of the panel were raving about the new touhou release, but weren't as up-to-date as I was and didn't know the story or about the translated omake.txt, so they were surprised when I mentioned it was when we were chatting before the panel began.

They totes did mention shrinemaiden.org as the best english source of touhou news though.

[Tengukami]

Maybe she frequents Kourindou to look for magazines from outside.

...Wait, why are you using spoiler tag for that? This was known ever since demo's prologue.

Ah, so it was. Better safe than sorry!

[Validon98]

Current translations:Did anyone try to play the song in reverse and confirm this? Instead making a song purposely sound similar in reverse (Hartmann's Youkai Girl and Reverse Ideology) we now have purposely opposite themes when played back and forth.

I'm listening to the theme reversed as I type this, and it sounds calm, but still relatively creepy, almost like... a late game dungeon theme or something in another dimension altogether.

[Valar]

Looking at the game files, I've confirmed that there are only 8 endings.

...

Thanks a lot!

[Kaizaki]

Silly question: Is Junko a former Lunarian?

Points in favour of this are (Reisen ending)

Spoiler:

Eirin's knowledge of Chang'e's and Junko's family trees,

and Junko's knowledge of Lunarian views on impurity (life force). However, only few on the Moon know of her, and her official profile makes it seem like she's not.

The Lunar Capital wiki page lists her as such, and I remember reading the same from another source. But I've not encountered definite word on her being from the Moon.

[Starxsword]

We actually do have such devices since a breathable atmosphere creates various effects that can be seen with just a telescope, not to mention spectrometers.

No, we don't. You assume that what the fairies did (Sanae being to breath) would give all the visible effects of breathable atmosphere akin to earth. How can you conclusive say this? There is only one semi-fact (from Sanae's statement) and you are extending your conclusion to include what isn't mentioned.

Silly question: Is Junko a former Lunarian?

I think she still is a Lunarian.

[SirSlarty]

From the demo, Seiran is my favorite.
From the final, Junko is my favorite.
They're both simple in plan and execution: kill the player with the plainest, most straightforward danmaku that they know.

Going on the record to say that I really have a large disdain for Clownpiece. Still hate Yukari the most.

[Aya Reiko]

So the newest Big Bad is a Divine Spirit that's grudge incarnate. Or a god that could be described as "Maiden of Hatred". So basically, Mephisto-tan.

[Clarste]

So the newest Big Bad is a Divine Spirit that's grudge incarnate. Or a god that could be described as "Maiden of Hatred". So basically, Mephisto-tan.

http://imgur.com/nzmsa9c

[Helepolis]

I swear, the number of cocky and smug-face / smirking Touhous in this game is too much for me to handle.

It just makes you want to punch them all in the face for some unknown reason.

[Valar]

No, we don't. You assume that what the fairies did (Sanae being to breath) would give all the visible effects of breathable atmosphere akin to earth. How can you conclusive say this? There is only one semi-fact (from Sanae's statement) and you are extending your conclusion to include what isn't mentioned.

Basic physics. If fairies create actual air that can be breathed, then it can be seen. Well, may be what they create is more like an idea of the air, an idea of "you are able to breathe here", and giving this idea enough magic for it to come true. Very Touhou-ish.

Sanae:

Spoiler:

Sanae is being trained by Kanako in a harsh drill sergeant manner, because she came back from the moon all beaten up. Apparently in this timeline Sanae's gods told her not to take the elixir so they could keep and analyze it. Suwako figures out that in addition to letting the user experience the future, it also "purifies their past," removing all impurity. This would apparently instantly defeat a native god, but would just turn Sanae into a cleansed human. Blah blah blah kegare is life and death, etc. Then the narration gets all philosophical about how having infinite lives makes death feel trivial.

Spoiler:

Wait, then in the route where Sanae took the elixir she stopped being a god?

[TresserT]

Spoiler:

Wait, then in the route where Sanae took the elixir she stopped being a god?

Didn't ZUN say that pointdevice was supposed to be the main story for this game too? (Not a spoiler, he said this before the full release)

[Drake]

Silly question: Is Junko a former Lunarian?

It's semi-implied at this point that many occurrences of Shinto mythology involving the Amatsukami have to do with the moon. As Chang'e never ascended to the moon in Touhou lore, it's reasonable to say Junko also lived on the moon... But you also have to consider the connection to the story of Houyi, which is probably started the whole thing. In Reisen's ending

Spoiler:

it shows Chang'e with the moon, Houyi with the sun, and Junko and the child with the earth. One of the famous stories of Houyi is that ten "suns" (yatagarasu) were born and shot down by Houyi in order to save the earth, so one of these might have been her child?

I haven't done enough research to nail down what ZUN's scrambled together here.

[endings]

Spoiler:

Nice to see that ZUN hasn't dropped his ending storytelling technique. What's more is that he seems to have gone a level further and spread salient information across both Pointdevice and Legacy endings, so it isn't just "these are bad endings and these are good endings", they all play a part. Excellent.

Didn't ZUN say that pointdevice was supposed to be the main story for this game too? (Not a spoiler, he said this before the full release)

No, he basically said he designed the game for Pointdevice.

[Plubio]

Speaking of endings and characters ? do you think any character from this game has a possibility to reappear in a future Touhou game?
I really can't see Sagume or Junko in Gensokyo. I can see Clownpiece, but so some extent.

Thoughts?

[HalfGrand]

I just thought of something... was it ever explained what happens to the giant mechanical spider after Reimu and co. go to town, shoot out the place and makes the big bads run off with their tail between their legs?

If I am informed correctly, the mechanical spider was the Lunarians device so they recalled it back to the dreamland and back to the moon once they could go back to the moon when Junko was defeated right? Anything further about the spider in Omake.txt?

I swear, the number of cocky and smug-face / smirking Touhous in this game is too much for me to handle. It just makes you want to punch them all in the face for some unknown reason.

Well, if you were the god of hell, a powerful devine spirit, a lunarian or a god equipped with the danmaku that was thrown at us in this game, you would probably be considered just a lowly, impure human as well that isn't really a bother.

Think of a situation where a six foot man is looking down at a small ant that wants to bite him. He would probably be thinking "heh heh heh... your so about to get squashed >: 3"

I, personally, love the sense of confidence these girls project. That's why I love Marisa so much when she hauls ass.

Speaking of endings and characters ? do you think any character from this game has a possibility to reappear in a future Touhou game? I really can't see Sagume or Junko in Gensokyo. I can see Clownpiece, but so some extent. Thoughts?

I don't know, why don't you try asking Medicine Melancholy, Yamame Kurodani, Koakuma and Soga No Tojiko. See how their going with reappearances after their 15 minutes of fame.  :derp:

[TresserT]

Speaking of endings and characters ? do you think any character from this game has a possibility to reappear in a future Touhou game?
I really can't see Sagume or Junko in Gensokyo. I can see Clownpiece, but so some extent.

Thoughts?

Ringo is almost certainly still in Gensokyo. I'd assume Hecatia went back to Hell, so Clownpiece might have gone with her or might have gone and done her own thing. Unless it's in one of the endings we might not know for a while.

About Junko, I'd guess she will be in Gensokyo (though I haven't read the endings or extra dialogue, so something there might change my mind). She definitely won't be welcome on the moon and being a divine spirit she'll have a hard time existing in the outside world. The only places she could go AFAIK are Gensokyo or Hell, and it would be a waste of a character if she went to Hell and never showed up again.

Of course, now that we've discovered the Kaian route I feel like any of the characters could easily show up in future games spinoffs or manga.