Touhou 15 「東方紺珠伝 ～ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom」 Patch 1.00b released

[TresserT]

Well, there's one more thing that bugs me. How did the Outside World failed to notice the freaking moon being terraformed? It certainly isn't happening on the far side, as we see the Earth during the fifth stage. If the background image in the Extra Stage is any indication, that should bring some mass panic.

In addition, the lack of actions taken by Yukari throughout ULiL and LoLK sure dealt a number to my image of her as an omniscient manipulator. Reimu and Kasen just barely saved the Gensokyo from the Lunar Capital ball being activated, now we had an actual invasion and unlike Eirin, she doesn't give a damn.

This. Yukari was mysteriously absent from ULiL, where a breach in the barrier occurred which would definitely concern her, and she was absent from this game, which would concern her as well. Apparently she appeared in an ending, but still. It just doesn't make sense to me.

In regards to fairy brilliance invasion of the near side of the moon, when was it ever said they were on the "real" moon? IIRC the Lunarians had a Gensokyo-like barrier which hid their version of the moon and only specific people like Maribel can see through it. It has nothing to do with geographical location (near side/far side). This is further supported by stage 6, where we're on a literal sea yet can see the earth.

[Sagus]

*many words*

Those are excellent points, thanks!

Well, there's one more thing that bugs me. How did the Outside World failed to notice the freaking moon being terraformed? It certainly isn't happening on the far side, as we see the Earth during the fifth stage. If the background image in the Extra Stage is any indication, that should bring some mass panic.

It probably wasn't that extensive. The ground the protagonist cover on stage 5 is still a bare lunar landscape, after all. Stage 6, iirc, is happening inside the Lunarian's version of the moon again.

And at any rate, maybe the outside world IS freaking out about this. How would we know? No one involved has connections with the outside. Maybe Sumireko will say something next time she appears.

In addition, the lack of actions taken by Yukari throughout ULiL and LoLK sure dealt a number to my image of her as an omniscient manipulator. Reimu and Kasen just barely saved the Gensokyo from the Lunar Capital ball being activated, now we had an actual invasion and unlike Eirin, she doesn't give a damn.

If she didn't act herself, she probably just didn't deem it necessary. From Marisa's ending, it seems she knows who Sagume is, and if so maybe she knew how reluctant she would be to carry out her plan to colonize Gensokyo (which's repeatedly stated to be a back-up plan that they really don't want to have to use).

In regards to fairy brilliance invasion of the near side of the moon, when was it ever said they were on the "real" moon? IIRC the Lunarians had a Gensokyo-like barrier which hid their version of the moon and only specific people like Maribel can see through it. It has nothing to do with geographical location (near side/far side). This is further supported by stage 6, where we're on a literal sea yet can see the earth.

Stage 5 is a bare lunar landscape; as we know from SSiB, the Lunarian's moon doesn't have such features.

[game2011]

Is there really confusion among people that they think Shinki is the goddess of

Spoiler:

hell

?  Some people are getting Makai confused with that place...

[ふねん1]

Well, there's one more thing that bugs me. How did the Outside World failed to notice the freaking moon being terraformed? It certainly isn't happening on the far side, as we see the Earth during the fifth stage. If the background image in the Extra Stage is any indication, that should bring some mass panic.

I've always assumed that the "terraforming" was purely spiritual in nature, not physical. After all, the danger to the Lunar Capital was described as being the presence of impurity ("life and death" in general, through Clownpiece).

Speaking of Clownpiece, my first impression is that she might indeed be stronger than Cirno if only because of what she embodies becoming "purified" and thus enhanced. Then again, she's brand new and ZUN will most likely expand on her character in the future, either through more appearances in the games or the inevitable PMiSS/SoPM treatment. I don't understand where people are getting the idea that Cirno didn't beat Marisa though. She depleted all of Marisa's health on all 18 of her attacks before losing all her lives/motivation herself, so technically she won the Spell Card battle. Yes, Cirno took a beating, but Marisa didn't "beat" (as in "defeat") her in that instance. It's possible Hatate misinterpreted Cirno looking "beat up" as a sign that she lost. Plus this is Hatate we're talking about - "consider the source" and all that jazz.

[Validon98]

On the subject of "why hasn't anyone on Earth seen the terraforming", I think it's mostly because it's not like they can see lifeforce suddenly shooting through the roof. I mean, our technology modern day can't detect the essence of life. Signs of it, maybe, but not the pure essence that the fairies from hell were exuding. I do think that it's odd they didn't see any of the danmaku happening, though. Stage 5 looks to be on the "real" surface of the Moon that we see ourselves in the Outside World. We can't see Stage 6 because that's in the "dream/fantasy" surface of the Moon, but as I said before, to quote a CinemaSins joke: "Nobody who watches the sky for a living sees this shit." Remember, Stage 5 and 6 are on the near side of the moon, the side we can always see, so if someone didn't see some sort of weird lightshows happening up there, I'd be amazed. The same can be applied to ULiL, where it seems no one is aware of the danmaku fights that were occurring above whichever city the protagonists were dumped into near the end of their stories.

Still, between both games, the Outside World has had visible danmaku fights in it, and whether or not people have noticed... well I can't say for certain. So far there seems to be no story details on that end, but I'm wondering if it's possible there's now rumors of strange happenings.

[Critz]

Well, the Lunar Capital and it's surroundings being behind a perception barrier similiar to the Hakurei barrier seems to be the most rational explanation to the Outside World population being unaware to me.

That, and it would also explain how the human characters can, um, breathe on the moon, if it isn't the surface we, the Outside World people know, but rather some Lunarian space directly connected to the Dream World.

[ChronaSE]

Or perhaps Yukari took a trip to the outside world to make sure no one noticed the events, since she apparently mentions in Marisa's ending that she was 'busy'. Although that leads me to think that she was sleeping the whole time  :V

[TresserT]

On the subject of "why hasn't anyone on Earth seen the terraforming", I think it's mostly because it's not like they can see lifeforce suddenly shooting through the roof. I mean, our technology modern day can't detect the essence of life. Signs of it, maybe, but not the pure essence that the fairies from hell were exuding. I do think that it's odd they didn't see any of the danmaku happening, though. Stage 5 looks to be on the "real" surface of the Moon that we see ourselves in the Outside World. We can't see Stage 6 because that's in the "dream/fantasy" surface of the Moon, but as I said before, to quote a CinemaSins joke: "Nobody who watches the sky for a living sees this shit." Remember, Stage 5 and 6 are on the near side of the moon, the side we can always see, so if someone didn't see some sort of weird lightshows happening up there, I'd be amazed. The same can be applied to ULiL, where it seems no one is aware of the danmaku fights that were occurring above whichever city the protagonists were dumped into near the end of their stories.

Still, between both games, the Outside World has had visible danmaku fights in it, and whether or not people have noticed... well I can't say for certain. So far there seems to be no story details on that end, but I'm wondering if it's possible there's now rumors of strange happenings.

Hm... I forgot about ULiL, and there's no way I can rationalize that. The fact that it's happened twice makes me feel like it might become a plot point in a future game.

[PK]

Or perhaps Yukari took a trip to the outside world to make sure no one noticed the events, since she apparently mentions in Marisa's ending that she was 'busy'.

I was thinking the same. No way noone noticed Sumireko fighting with the others in the middle of a city, especially since some damage has been certainly done to the surroundings. Reinforcing the border to make literally impossible for outsiders to slip inside even as a mistake sounds something she would do.
Also, maybe she had another (unused) plan, or cooperated with Eirin, or was dealing with the whole urban legend/occult ball thing since they are apparently still around (Marisa has one in that ending). Could also be that the boundary was damaged and she was repairing it.

We could get an answer in WaHH or FS, or (hopefully) another spin-off like ISC was for DDC.

[Arcengal]

In stage 6, when the blue rain starts to fall and the music swells just in time for Earth to come back into view... legit chills. What a moment that is.

So spells like Junko's final spell (her ACTUAL final spell, that is) usually have some kind of "no, you can't just time it out" phase that comes into play at the end. I can't survive it long enough to find out (btw, Practice mode has continues now...) but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen the horrors of the 10 second countdown.

It just progresses through the stages over time, there's no super special phase sadly. 88 seconds for 2nd phase, 50-ish seconds for third, 30 seconds for final.

[Quils]

From what I could understand, the Extra Stage is actually Stage 7 in terms of story...
I guess this means that chronologically all the endings in the game occur after the Extra Stage?

[kevin1127]

From what I could understand, the Extra Stage is actually Stage 7 in terms of story...
I guess this means that chronologically all the endings in the game occur after the Extra Stage?

I read the extra stage dialogue and background story.
To me it looks like the extra stage happens after the ending

[Clarste]

Re: Yukari: she shows up in an ending to explain that

Spoiler:

she doesn't think the events of ULiL or LoLK are important enough for her to care about. Marisa assumes the same stuff we assume, that Yukari would always get involved when the defense of the barrier is at issue, but Yukari just laughs and says "Is that so?" It basically ends on an incredibly ominous note that Yukari's definition of "protecting Gensokyo" might be quite different from what anyone else can imagine (ie: she might not care if Lunarians kill everyone, as long as the concept of Gensoyko itself survives).

That, and it would also explain how the human characters can, um, breathe on the moon, if it isn't the surface we, the Outside World people know, but rather some Lunarian space directly connected to the Dream World.

In Sanae's route, she assumes that the moon having a breathable atmosphere (the real moon, not the fantasy moon), is an effect of the fairies making it a liveable place. It's not proven that she's right, but she's worried that she'd die if Clownpiece leaves.

From what I could understand, the Extra Stage is actually Stage 7 in terms of story...
I guess this means that chronologically all the endings in the game occur after the Extra Stage?

Reisen's Legacy ending explicitly takes place before the Extra stage.

[Critz]

In Sanae's route, she assumes that the moon having a breathable atmosphere (the real moon, not the fantasy moon), is an effect of the fairies making it a liveable place. It's not proven that she's right, but she's worried that she'd die if Clownpiece leaves.

Oh, thank you. That would imply that the process of the moon terraforming *is* radical enough to develop an atmosphere and enough nature to provide oxygen. A change like that wouldn't slip unnoticed by the Outside World unless the current look of the moon is somehow hidden from them. But considering Sumireko's danmaku fights in the Outside World, I *do* suspect that we'll get a plot about the Outside World catching wind of Gensokyo.

[Shizzo]

Oh, thank you. That would imply that the process of the moon terraforming *is* radical enough to develop an atmosphere and enough nature to provide oxygen. A change like that wouldn't slip unnoticed by the Outside World unless the current look of the moon is somehow hidden from them. But considering Sumireko's danmaku fights in the Outside World, I *do* suspect that we'll get a plot about the Outside World catching wind of Gensokyo.

Can't wait to see what kind of lolis people from Earth will send to Gensokyo  :V

[PK]

So, reading Reimu's scenario,

Spoiler:

in legacy mode with misses Junko says that her powers allow her to "kill unconditionally". Wouldn't this mean that she effectively can purify stuff in the same way lunarians intend it (complete destruction of life), other than doing that "refining" she did to the fairies and herself? Also, Reimu remembers Eirin saying that she couldn't defeat the enemies without the drug, but apparently she wins at the end, and avoids this purification thing (unless the ending itself revels something else).

[Clarste]

So, reading Reimu's scenario,

Spoiler:

in legacy mode with misses Junko says that her powers allow her to "kill unconditionally". Wouldn't this mean that she effectively can purify stuff in the same way lunarians intend it (complete destruction of life), other than doing that "refining" she did to the fairies and herself? Also, Reimu remembers Eirin saying that she couldn't defeat the enemies without the drug, but apparently she wins at the end, and avoids this purification thing (unless the ending itself revels something else).

The Legacy endings

Spoiler:

all imply that the protagonist failed. They're kind of bad endings, but longer and more in depth. In Reimu's, she gives up on driving off the invading moon rabbits, but then the moon rabbits end up integrated into Gensokyo society anyway, with the final invasion indefinitely delayed.

[kevin1127]

The Legacy endings

Spoiler:

all imply that the protagonist failed. They're kind of bad endings, but longer and more in depth. In Reimu's, she gives up on driving off the invading moon rabbits, but then the moon rabbits end up integrated into Gensokyo society anyway, with the final invasion indefinitely delayed.

Spoiler:

Why do I feel like those endings are not a kind of bad ending. It just implies that they did not use the drug.
If you mean "failed" because the moon rabbits did not retreat, then probably all the endings should be considered as failed because Hecatia is still trapping Lunarians until protagonists beat her in extra stage

[Clarste]

Spoiler:

Why do I feel like those endings are not a kind of bad ending. It just implies that they did not use the drug.
If you mean "failed" because the moon rabbits did not retreat, then probably all the endings should be considered as failed because Hecatia is still trapping Lunarians until protagonists beat her in extra stage

Spoiler:

No, I mean it literally says they failed. "The plan failed! You didn't beat Junko!" Apparently you really did need the drug to win.

Reimu's ending has her tell Sanae that she failed. Marisa's ending is about Reisen lecturing her for failing (she took the elixir from Eirin, but put it in her collection instead of drinking it). Sanae's ending is her getting re-trained by Kanako because she was no match for the Lunarians. Reisen's ending is her panicking over going back to Eientei without succeeding, and having disobeyed Eirin's order to drink the elixir. Kaguya convinces her that the new intel on the Hell Fairies and Hecatia made the trip worth it despite her failure.

By contrast, the pointdevice endings are all about the characters bragging that they saved the moon.

[kevin1127]

Spoiler:

No, I mean it literally says they failed. "The plan failed! You didn't beat Junko!" Apparently you really did need the drug to win.

Reimu's ending has her tell Sanae that she failed. Marisa's ending is about Reisen lecturing her for failing (she took the elixir from Eirin, but put it in her collection instead of drinking it). Sanae's ending is her getting re-trained by Kanako because she was no match for the Lunarians. Reisen's ending is her panicking over going back to Eientei without succeeding, and having disobeyed Eirin's order to drink the elixir. Kaguya convinces her that the new intel on the Hell Fairies and Hecatia made the trip worth it despite her failure.

By contrast, the pointdevice endings are all about the characters bragging that they saved the moon.

Spoiler:

Okay, for some reason I missed the "didn't beat Junko" part.
WTF ZUN, you said all endings are good endings

[Valar]

Re: Yukari: she shows up in an ending to explain that

Spoiler:

she doesn't think the events of ULiL or LoLK are important enough for her to care about. Marisa assumes the same stuff we assume, that Yukari would always get involved when the defense of the barrier is at issue, but Yukari just laughs and says "Is that so?" It basically ends on an incredibly ominous note that Yukari's definition of "protecting Gensokyo" might be quite different from what anyone else can imagine (ie: she might not care if Lunarians kill everyone, as long as the concept of Gensoyko itself survives).

She does care, since the concept of Gensoyko itself includes a number of humans living inside. I think Yukari simply knew that the incident will resolve without her just allright (and she was right - there are no bad endings).

Can't wait to see what kind of lolis people from Earth will send to Gensokyo  :V

Strawberry Crisis all over again XD

[Clarste]

She does care, since the concept of Gensoyko itself includes a number of humans living inside. I think Yukari simply knew that the incident will resolve without her just allright (and she was right - there are no bad endings).

The line that Marisa found particularly ominous was

Spoiler:

"Gensokyo can change."

But I agree that it's not helpful to read too much into it, the basic point is just that Yukari doesn't appear to care about any of the recent events, and is generally a creepy and mysterious person who Marisa doesn't trust.

[Lishy1]

Wow, I just saw Clownpiece's design., Can't get more "Murica!" than that. I wonder if the design is intentional?

[Uruwi]

Wow, I just saw Clownpiece's design., Can't get more "Murica!" than that. I wonder if the design is intentional?

Probably anti-American propaganda in response to He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.

(No, not the one from the Harry Potter series.)

[ChronaSE]

" I'm the Hakurei shrine maiden who silences crying children! " Did she just steal Sumireko's  quote?

[Tengukami]

Isn't the flag that was planted on the "moon" currently in Eientei? The design could be related to that.

[Clarste]

" I'm the Hakurei shrine maiden who silences crying children! " Did she just steal Sumireko's  quote?

It's a common idiom that the series has joked around with many times before.

[Yotek1]

I think I broke stage 5. Here's the replay file. Yes, I know I'm terrible... it was not a good run.

https://mega.nz/#!lBExmTpQ!gmB597mCIqp2TdYOJRFpTPFqts_zYNlnR9641E5HrpA

[Sagus]

Clownpiece's probably dressed like that to annoy the Lunarians, since the whole Apollo program business (and the flag they planted on the Moon) is a sore spot for them.

[BB]

Wow, having started with Sanae and now moved onto Marisa, she really suffers during the stages but bosses just crumble to dust. I'm actually having to hold myself back to get enough graze on spells before they break.

Lengthy streaming sections in Stages though are almost like playing on a difficulty setting higher than Sanae. Can't kill 'em quickly enough!